WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.840 --> 00:00:07.480 Welcome to Open Minds Radio with your host Alejandro Rojas, former official spokesperson for 2 00:00:07.599 --> 00:00:12.880 the Mutual UFO Network. Alejandro who's been a UFO paranormal researcher and journalists for 3 00:00:12.960 --> 00:00:17.760 nearly a decade and has logged hours in the field investigating the paranormal up close 4 00:00:17.800 --> 00:00:22.760 and personal, and now Open Minds Radio presents evidence in the latest news regarding 5 00:00:22.800 --> 00:00:29.120 the UFO phenomenon. Here's your host, Alejandro Rojas. Hello and welcome. 6 00:00:29.399 --> 00:00:36.520 This is open Minds Radio. We are your UFO news authority. Before we 7 00:00:36.600 --> 00:00:41.119 get to some UFO news in the headlines, I want to talk about our 8 00:00:41.119 --> 00:00:43.920 guests tonight. I'm really excited about our guests. First of all, I 9 00:00:43.960 --> 00:00:49.280 should say Happy Memorial Day. Hopefully you're all having a wonderful holiday. Jason 10 00:00:49.359 --> 00:00:52.560 and I, of course, are working hard to get you the information, 11 00:00:52.719 --> 00:00:55.920 so we took this time, even though we could have had the day off, 12 00:00:56.000 --> 00:00:59.799 to make sure that you get informed, and so did our guests Chris 13 00:01:00.200 --> 00:01:06.640 Brian. I'm very excited about this one because he investigates the San Luis Valley 14 00:01:06.719 --> 00:01:11.079 in Colorado, a very mysterious area where there's all types of phenomena going on, 15 00:01:11.519 --> 00:01:17.799 including UFOs. It's where cattle mutilations began and where most have occurred, 16 00:01:18.200 --> 00:01:23.040 right there in the area and across it actually spans a little bit the border 17 00:01:23.079 --> 00:01:26.719 to New Mexico, and in that area is where all these cattle mutilations happen. 18 00:01:26.840 --> 00:01:33.000 So mister O'Brien here has investigated all of this strangeness and some of the 19 00:01:33.159 --> 00:01:36.400 Native American lore in the area. So we're going to be talking to him 20 00:01:36.439 --> 00:01:38.959 about all of this, and in fact, i'll share this later on. 21 00:01:40.200 --> 00:01:46.719 My family has their own mysterious history in the valley. Because my family's from 22 00:01:46.719 --> 00:01:53.040 the valley. We've been in Colorado thousands of years until just a few years 23 00:01:53.040 --> 00:01:57.200 ago when I moved out here, so my family stretches back in that area 24 00:01:57.280 --> 00:02:04.319 for a long long time. You have at least one highly mysterious story from 25 00:02:04.799 --> 00:02:08.000 my family. But let us get in to the news. When you go 26 00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:14.840 to Openminds dot tv, you can always see the latest UFO headlines, and 27 00:02:14.879 --> 00:02:17.520 we have that on the front page. And these are headlines from conventional news 28 00:02:17.560 --> 00:02:21.960 all around the world. Also, if you go there right now and click 29 00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:25.240 on the radio tab, you can watch us live in the studio via our 30 00:02:25.360 --> 00:02:30.159 live video stream. That's something that Jason sets up for us, and Jason 31 00:02:30.599 --> 00:02:35.520 McClellan is our UFO news correspondent. Jason, you got some news for us. 32 00:02:35.840 --> 00:02:39.639 Hialejondro Yo, Hello Phoenix in the Hello world. This is your Open 33 00:02:39.639 --> 00:02:45.400 Minds news brief for a Monday, May thirty first, twenty ten. Chinese 34 00:02:45.439 --> 00:02:50.639 lanterns are commonly mistaken for UFOs. A woman in the UK observed orange lights 35 00:02:50.639 --> 00:02:54.319 in the skylast Saturday night that could have been Chinese lanterns, but the behavior 36 00:02:54.360 --> 00:03:00.280 she witness seems a little strange for Chinese lanterns. She described the lights is 37 00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:04.400 moving, but not drifting, like they were moving with a purpose. She 38 00:03:04.520 --> 00:03:07.879 observed the lights forming a triangle, then at once the lights went off. 39 00:03:08.639 --> 00:03:13.439 There have been other reports in the area of orange lights moving against the wind, 40 00:03:13.840 --> 00:03:17.360 so a UFO research group is contacting the Coastguard to ascertain the wind's direction 41 00:03:17.879 --> 00:03:23.080 on the night of the woman's sighting to see if perhaps what she saw those 42 00:03:23.159 --> 00:03:27.639 lights were also moving against the wind. Against the wind. All right, 43 00:03:27.680 --> 00:03:31.840 calm down, but that is odd, you know. It doesn't seem like 44 00:03:31.919 --> 00:03:36.479 behavior of a Chinese lantern to be able to number one move against the wind. 45 00:03:36.599 --> 00:03:39.879 Number two form a distinct pattern and then have all the lights go out 46 00:03:39.960 --> 00:03:45.199 at the same time. Yeah. In two thousand and nine, British Defense 47 00:03:45.280 --> 00:03:50.159 reported they had gotten a lot of sightings of orange lights. When we talked 48 00:03:50.159 --> 00:03:53.000 to Nick Pope, who investigated UFOs for the Ministry of Defense in the UK, 49 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:57.960 he said, it's probably because the popularity of these Chinese lanterns. So 50 00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:00.400 you see a lot in the news people blowing off to Chinese lanterns, But 51 00:04:01.240 --> 00:04:06.199 now a lot of these witnesses are matching up what they're saying too Chinese lanterns, 52 00:04:06.520 --> 00:04:11.000 and a lot of these things are doing things that these lanterns wouldn't. 53 00:04:11.840 --> 00:04:16.839 So maybe there's just an increase in these orange orbs being cited as separate from 54 00:04:16.839 --> 00:04:21.279 the Chinese lantern lanterns, or maybe more people are buying Chinese lanterns. That 55 00:04:21.439 --> 00:04:25.519 could be true to Jason, but we don't know. Yeah, I'm sorry. 56 00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:27.399 I didn't mean to be a downer, but that was a bit of 57 00:04:27.399 --> 00:04:30.240 a downer in this kind of moment. Well, let's go. Let's go 58 00:04:30.319 --> 00:04:32.920 on to another story, an update to a story we've covered for quite a 59 00:04:32.920 --> 00:04:39.160 while and we continue getting updates on, and that is the Gary McKinnon case 60 00:04:39.720 --> 00:04:44.560 and Nick Clegg, UK's new deputy Prime Minister, has admitted that his government 61 00:04:44.639 --> 00:04:47.360 may be powerless to prevent the extradition of Gary McKinnon to the United States. 62 00:04:47.720 --> 00:04:54.399 This news surprises many of McKinnon's supporters because rumors were just swirling last week saying 63 00:04:54.439 --> 00:04:59.160 McKinnon would almost certainly being a denied extradition to the United States. Yeah, 64 00:04:59.199 --> 00:05:02.000 it's too bad. The new administration said they were going to keep it from 65 00:05:02.040 --> 00:05:05.639 happening, and they used it politically saying, oh, this current administration, 66 00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:10.519 what a bunch of jerks. They're gonna export this poor hacker guy. And 67 00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:13.560 then as soon as they get in office, oh, sorry, we can't 68 00:05:13.600 --> 00:05:16.720 do anything about it. So Gary McKinnon looks like he's going to be coming 69 00:05:16.720 --> 00:05:21.720 to the States and going to be tried for hacking in and getting UFO information. 70 00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:26.160 So we'll see if this creates a big media friends. Yet's sort of. 71 00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:32.480 The amount of media attention it's received over the last year has been incredible. 72 00:05:32.600 --> 00:05:36.000 So if it actually does happen he is extradited, I think it'll be 73 00:05:36.079 --> 00:05:42.800 nuts. Yeah, maybe all over the place. More opinions continue to emerge 74 00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:46.600 in response to recent comments about extraterrestrial life made by Stephen Hawking on his Discovery 75 00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:51.560 Channel series. Fellow astrophysicists and other scientists have voiced their opinions, some agreeing 76 00:05:51.639 --> 00:05:57.199 and some disagreeing with Hawking. Apollo astronaut doctor Edgar Mitchell is one of the 77 00:05:57.240 --> 00:06:01.160 members of the scientific community who certainly shares in Hawking believe that extraterrestrials do exist. 78 00:06:01.879 --> 00:06:05.879 Mitchell has even gone further to say that he knows about alien visitations here 79 00:06:05.920 --> 00:06:10.839 on Earth and the government's efforts to cover up the truth. Yep I got 80 00:06:10.879 --> 00:06:16.279 to meet and listen to Funny Enough at the Comic Con here in Phoenix, 81 00:06:17.360 --> 00:06:23.000 says Shastak from SETI and Paul Davies, one of the lead astrobiologists, and 82 00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:26.879 they brought this up. They brought up, especially Shostak brought up that what 83 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:30.800 they do at the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence is they're looking for signals coming in, 84 00:06:30.839 --> 00:06:34.160 so they're not sending out signals. But doctor Davies said, well, 85 00:06:34.199 --> 00:06:39.759 actually I have sent out signals, which is controversial, and that's essentially what 86 00:06:40.839 --> 00:06:44.959 Hawking was talking about is maybe we don't want to send out signals because they 87 00:06:44.959 --> 00:06:47.240 may respond and they may come here and then they may try to conquer and 88 00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:51.120 enslave us. All right, we don't know how they'll react and what they'll 89 00:06:51.160 --> 00:06:55.240 want to do when they get here. Yeah, of course. But Davies 90 00:06:55.399 --> 00:07:00.959 and uh, well Davis especially, and Shawstack and doctor Cox to another famous 91 00:07:00.959 --> 00:07:03.720 physicist, they all agree that they think that if they're that advanced of a 92 00:07:03.759 --> 00:07:08.839 civilization, they had to have gotten past, you know, some of these 93 00:07:09.319 --> 00:07:13.199 social issues that we have, so they wouldn't be just these evil, tyrant, 94 00:07:13.639 --> 00:07:17.439 cling on type characters. Well. I think they encountered that that issue 95 00:07:17.439 --> 00:07:21.079 in Star Trek, though, where all the people in the Federation supposedly had 96 00:07:21.240 --> 00:07:26.079 reached this level of enlightenment where we're very good people, but you still had 97 00:07:26.079 --> 00:07:30.240 the Romulens and the Klingons out there too. Yeah, and even at Q, 98 00:07:30.439 --> 00:07:35.079 which is this super omnipodent being, that was not necessarily that nice. 99 00:07:35.319 --> 00:07:41.199 I thank you so much. In other news, the unidentified flying object over 100 00:07:41.199 --> 00:07:46.759 our Newfoundland we reported on back in January still remains a mystery. Government departments 101 00:07:46.800 --> 00:07:49.519 have been researching the incident, but still have no explanation for the object in 102 00:07:49.560 --> 00:07:54.360 the sky. So far, reports have ruled out missiles and model rockets. 103 00:07:54.920 --> 00:08:00.000 The incident has been officially called an unexplained sighting. In documents that have been 104 00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:05.480 released relating to this matter, the government has blocked nine pages and several paragraphs 105 00:08:05.560 --> 00:08:09.160 from public release. Yeah, I mean, who knows what the heck is 106 00:08:09.199 --> 00:08:13.959 going on with this thing? What do you think would be on these documents 107 00:08:13.959 --> 00:08:16.639 that aren't being released? I don't know, you know. You sometimes you 108 00:08:16.680 --> 00:08:22.399 get these ideas that maybe there was secret testing going on that they're trying to 109 00:08:22.439 --> 00:08:28.360 hide, or maybe they're hiding their conclusion that they came up as an unknown 110 00:08:28.399 --> 00:08:31.759 that they don't know and they don't want to admit that. Well, several 111 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:39.600 different government sources or government entities have admitted to missile tests during that time, 112 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:43.559 but not exactly on the day these things were seeing They said, oh, 113 00:08:43.639 --> 00:08:46.960 yeah, we were testing missiles, but it was the week earlier, right, 114 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:48.399 you know, so there's been a lot of that talk about missiles. 115 00:08:48.440 --> 00:08:52.399 But now they've looked at it and said, well, they weren't missiles. 116 00:08:52.879 --> 00:08:56.639 Yeah, so who knows that. Unfortunately, we don't get a look at 117 00:08:56.639 --> 00:09:00.799 those documents, no, or some paragraphs that have been blocked don't. We'll 118 00:09:00.840 --> 00:09:05.519 have to get Gary mckinnont hack in. They may have learned their lesson and 119 00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:11.320 actually locked their files down after McKinnon's walk in changed their password from password. 120 00:09:11.600 --> 00:09:16.080 Yes, password done a little harder. Yeah, that's it for the news. 121 00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:20.360 Remember to check these stories and more at openminds dot tv, your source 122 00:09:20.399 --> 00:09:26.360 for UFO related news. Your Open Mind correspondent, Jason McClellan. And you've 123 00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:28.840 been briefed. That's you, Allehandro all right, you know, I wanted 124 00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:31.600 to mention a couple more things about the comic con which was a lot of 125 00:09:31.600 --> 00:09:35.039 fun, and that was just this past weekend, right, Yeah, so 126 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:37.120 just uh and I got to meet those guys a couple of days ago. 127 00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:41.519 It was packed, absolutely packed. And one of the other doctors, there 128 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:46.919 were three of them, one was the moderator. He was also an astrobiologist 129 00:09:46.919 --> 00:09:50.919 from ASU, which so was Paul Davies. But Paul Davis is pretty famous 130 00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:54.679 with his books and everything, and he's extra famous after being on our radio 131 00:09:54.799 --> 00:10:01.679 show. But yeah, it was kind of in interesting to have such a 132 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:07.559 gathering at a comic book convention. And it was pretty packed for a while, 133 00:10:07.639 --> 00:10:09.600 and then people got bored and about half the crowd left when it got 134 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:13.279 to Q and a period because they were like, Okay, I get it. 135 00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:16.120 You know. I think if it would have been actually more about informing 136 00:10:16.120 --> 00:10:20.039 people about UFOs, it would have been a bigger crowd. So hopefully they'll 137 00:10:20.039 --> 00:10:24.519 have us talking maybe next year. I used to do that in Denver and 138 00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:28.440 people loved it, but for the comic book thing. But it was kind 139 00:10:28.440 --> 00:10:33.919 of fun to have, you know, these guys in this setting. And 140 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:37.399 the moderator was wearing his Star Trek shirt. He was one of the guys 141 00:10:37.399 --> 00:10:41.279 who helped put together the comic Con, So I think it's cool that, 142 00:10:41.639 --> 00:10:46.360 you know, you have speakers like this. He's astrophysicists and serious scientists, 143 00:10:46.639 --> 00:10:50.679 approaching you know, younger crowds and people more in the sci fi realm, 144 00:10:50.919 --> 00:10:56.840 but reaching them through this interesting arena. And I got to admit with Shostak, 145 00:10:56.919 --> 00:11:00.360 and you know, people might get mad at me out there for saying 146 00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:05.159 something nice about the guy, especially in this arena, but he is a 147 00:11:05.360 --> 00:11:09.240 very he's a good speaker. He's a witty speaker. He even mentioned Freedman 148 00:11:09.320 --> 00:11:13.960 to me a couple of times, kind of teasing him. But he's very 149 00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:16.440 much like San Friedman, someone that's fun to listen to, and he gets 150 00:11:16.480 --> 00:11:22.440 you excited about science, so I think he's a great spokesman for science. 151 00:11:22.559 --> 00:11:26.720 That's just unfortunate that really, I did notice though, they get into a 152 00:11:26.720 --> 00:11:33.480 lot of speculation and things that they can't substantiate, but they speculate about such 153 00:11:33.519 --> 00:11:37.480 as the nature, the possible nature and motives of anything that might be coming 154 00:11:37.519 --> 00:11:41.279 here. So, you know, they speculate a lot about what we use 155 00:11:41.399 --> 00:11:48.159 radio signals because you know, it's possible that they see us. You know, 156 00:11:48.200 --> 00:11:52.919 they send us radio signals periodically. It's possible that when we pass in 157 00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:56.000 front of the sun and they're using that time to shoot us with radio signals 158 00:11:56.000 --> 00:12:00.799 and lights and stuff like this. And somebody already they did ask, well, 159 00:12:00.799 --> 00:12:03.559 wouldn't they just fly to us? Why would they send a radio signal? 160 00:12:03.559 --> 00:12:05.879 And wouldn't they fly over? But unfortunately, both of these people are 161 00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:09.120 of the belief that, you know, just like people used to feel about 162 00:12:09.159 --> 00:12:15.720 this the sound barrier, that the speed of light is absolutely unbreakable, which 163 00:12:15.759 --> 00:12:20.440 is interesting because a lot of theoretical physicists, like doctor Mitchell Kuku, who 164 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:24.240 I keep bringing up because he's so famous, you know, they feel that 165 00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:30.039 it's a matter of time before we figure out wormholes or some way to get 166 00:12:30.080 --> 00:12:35.480 past that speed of light issue. So yeah, a lot of people kind 167 00:12:35.480 --> 00:12:37.799 of argued with him that way. I didn't go there, but I asked 168 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:41.279 them, you know, sci fi, if they were sci fi fans and 169 00:12:41.399 --> 00:12:46.279 what that had an effect on their careers, and they both said Davi's not 170 00:12:46.360 --> 00:12:50.399 so much, but definitely Shostak, although Davies did refer to a couple of 171 00:12:50.440 --> 00:12:54.600 Star Trek things so he watched. The other guy who was there was very 172 00:12:54.600 --> 00:13:00.039 affected, obviously had a Star Trek shirtnament. But Shostak too talked about we 173 00:13:00.279 --> 00:13:05.000 used to watch these movies and it was all it was sci fi that really 174 00:13:05.039 --> 00:13:09.480 got him excited. So sci fi plays an important role, and I think 175 00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:13.159 it does. Two. All right, coming up after the break, we're 176 00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:16.240 gonna have Chris O'Brien and we're gonna be talking about the mysterious San Luis Valley 177 00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:33.519 of Colorado. So stay tuned. You're listening to Open Minds Radio with Alejandra 178 00:13:33.639 --> 00:13:39.840 Rojas on KFNX News Talk Radio eleven hundred. Welcome back. I am Alejandro 179 00:13:41.080 --> 00:13:45.799 Rojas, your host at Open Minds Radio, and it's kind of funny they 180 00:13:45.799 --> 00:13:50.759 played the Alcoholics anonymous commercials there because this is Memorial Day weekend, and people 181 00:13:50.879 --> 00:13:54.879 barbecue and they drink a lot, and I'm sure there's gonna be some people 182 00:13:56.039 --> 00:13:58.759 kind of passed out in the parking lot. When I get back to my 183 00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:03.080 apartment. There are lots of people partying and barbecueing and Depp having a good 184 00:14:03.080 --> 00:14:07.919 time. I hope you're having a good time this Memorial Day weekend. And 185 00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:11.000 I got to thank our guests doublely, not just for showing up and being 186 00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:16.720 here and sharing information, but also for coming on the show on this holiday. 187 00:14:16.919 --> 00:14:20.279 Mister O'Brien, are you there. I am here, all right. 188 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:26.240 Great, it's good to hear you, and especially because you're you specialized in 189 00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:31.159 the San Luis Valley of Colorado, an area that I just really love. 190 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:35.039 I'd make sure to get out there several times every summer, and I'm gonna 191 00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:39.519 keep on doing that, even though I've moved to Arizona now, because not 192 00:14:39.559 --> 00:14:43.480 only is it mysterious for me, it just feels it feels special. I 193 00:14:43.519 --> 00:14:48.840 think a lot of people feel that way. Yeah, it's it's quite a 194 00:14:50.360 --> 00:14:56.240 quite a unique place. It's the largest alpine valley in the world. I 195 00:14:56.559 --> 00:15:01.320 often equate it to America's Attic it sits on the backbone of North America. 196 00:15:01.399 --> 00:15:09.480 It's completely surrounded on all sides by mountains. There's only four ways into the 197 00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:15.200 valley. It's about if you look at the geologic valley, the San Luis 198 00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:18.320 Valley portion of it is north of the border with Colorado, but the actual 199 00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:24.960 geologic valley goes down to Taos where the Rio Grande Gorge then drains down to 200 00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:30.840 Santa Fe and you're looking at about one hundred and fifty mile by sixty mile 201 00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:37.240 roughly football shaped high alpine valley that is radar invisible below eighteen thousand feet. 202 00:15:37.399 --> 00:15:45.600 It doesn't really it's kind of in between the Denver and Albuquerque flight control regions, 203 00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:50.919 so it's an aerial playground, shall we say. And of course I 204 00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:58.399 spent quite a number of years boots on the ground running around logging six years, 205 00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:02.559 I logged over three hundred thousand miles my truck, wow, vestigating reports 206 00:16:02.679 --> 00:16:12.240 and just about every conceivable type of paranormal phenomena and type of UFO and type 207 00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:19.399 of just unusual activity that you can possibly imagine. What got you interested or 208 00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:26.039 what got you into investigating the valley? Well, I ended up moving there 209 00:16:26.200 --> 00:16:30.120 just kind of by accident. I had known about the valley for many years, 210 00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:34.720 actually, since I was a little kid. I remember the famous headline 211 00:16:36.519 --> 00:16:41.879 the first publicized unusual livestock death case or cattle mutilation, if you will, 212 00:16:42.120 --> 00:16:45.879 and that was this Snippy the horse case, which occurred in September sixty seven. 213 00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:51.159 And I remember as a little kid seeing the headline on the Inquirer the 214 00:16:51.279 --> 00:16:55.879 Globe, you know, one of those supermarket rags, and fetching my mom 215 00:16:55.960 --> 00:17:00.720 to buy it for me so I could read it. And you know, 216 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:03.160 I've always known since then about the valley, and I've always been very interested 217 00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:08.279 in what goes on there, but very good little information really makes it out 218 00:17:08.319 --> 00:17:14.680 of that region because it's so remote, right. And when I moved out 219 00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:18.759 to the west from living many years on the East Coast, I spent twelve 220 00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:21.359 years in New York City, a couple of years in Boston, and then 221 00:17:21.440 --> 00:17:26.559 moved out in eighty nine to Santa Fe and realized really quickly, you know, 222 00:17:26.599 --> 00:17:30.759 I lasted a couple of three days there. I just didn't it just 223 00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:33.039 wasn't a good fit. So I had friends up in Crestone, which was 224 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:36.799 a little town up in the San Luis Valli and he said, well, 225 00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:40.240 hey, come on up and check check it out up here and see what 226 00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:45.319 you think. So I did, and you know it's it's a very carnivorous 227 00:17:45.400 --> 00:17:51.640 environment there. It's a semi arid desert. There's one person for every seven 228 00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:56.480 square miles. I lived for many years, thirteen years, sixty miles from 229 00:17:56.480 --> 00:17:59.960 the nearest stop light near at supermarket and there, you know, movie theater. 230 00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:03.839 But still fresh Stone. Now that you mentioned it and talking about how 231 00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:10.599 the valley is special, I mean that area they have what like a Tibetan 232 00:18:10.599 --> 00:18:15.960 Buddhist temple. I know they have a Japanese is it a big Japanese temple 233 00:18:17.000 --> 00:18:25.000 out there? They have an from un It's got eighteen unbroken spiritual lineages represented 234 00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:30.599 their five secs of Tibetan Buddhism. Wow. Is n monastery a karmelike Christian 235 00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:37.480 monastery simmy Shimakai or is there subud? I mean you name it. If 236 00:18:37.519 --> 00:18:44.799 they are a legitimate spiritual lineage, then chances are they're represented there. Hannah 237 00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:53.279 and Maurice Strong spent many years vetting spiritual lineages and then bequeathing them forty acre 238 00:18:53.400 --> 00:19:00.000 parcels if they agreed to build some sort of temple or monasterily or spiritual center. 239 00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:06.720 So you have just several dozen, uh you know, very h esteemed 240 00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:11.559 spiritual teditions represented there, and it's been equated to like a spiritual u n, 241 00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:15.440 which I've always thought would be a perfect place for any sort of grand 242 00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:21.680 arrival term by uh by you know, if you want to call them ET's 243 00:19:21.759 --> 00:19:26.240 or aliens. I hesitate to use that term personally. But if there's ever 244 00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:30.720 a place that besides the White House lawn, of course, that you would 245 00:19:30.599 --> 00:19:37.440 expect some sort of uh, you know, initial interaction in a public way 246 00:19:37.839 --> 00:19:41.839 that the question baka gande would be be my uh the number one on my 247 00:19:41.960 --> 00:19:48.839 list getting into the UFO activity out there? What sort of U is there 248 00:19:48.839 --> 00:19:53.039 a general regular I mean, do they see similar type of things out there? 249 00:19:53.319 --> 00:19:59.960 Or does it very it's it's pretty much potpourri. It's it's a small 250 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:07.160 board of aerial activity. I personally have seen every type of uh, color 251 00:20:07.319 --> 00:20:11.960 and size and uh you know, type of orb for instance, or you 252 00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:19.119 know what people would refer to as as lighted aerial objects. The green ones 253 00:20:19.160 --> 00:20:26.559 tend to be largest, They're huge, they moved slowly, similar to the 254 00:20:26.559 --> 00:20:32.359 green fireballs that were reported in the Southwest and the late forties early fifties. 255 00:20:33.400 --> 00:20:40.839 That was my first real big nocturnal sighting. We have the orange lights that 256 00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:45.359 that tend to be much smaller. Obviously, these other these green orbs, 257 00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:49.119 they're huge there, they could be hundreds of feet in diameter. The orange 258 00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:52.839 orbs tend to be smaller, about the size of a house to the size 259 00:20:52.839 --> 00:20:59.960 of a Volkswagen. Then you have your red tips that tend to be about 260 00:21:00.039 --> 00:21:03.920 beach ball to softball size, very super fast. They tend to zip around 261 00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:11.960 a lot ruby red laser like you know, light quality. It's it almost 262 00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:15.839 doesn't look real. It looks like a red that you've never seen before. 263 00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:19.240 It's very hard to describe. So and this is what people used to call 264 00:21:19.319 --> 00:21:25.960 some of these like miners. Like well, yeah, if if you look 265 00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:30.319 at the work of Michael Persinger and Paul Devereaux, for instance, these could 266 00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:37.160 some of these could be some sort of un as yet undefined natural phenomenon that 267 00:21:37.240 --> 00:21:45.960 would be like earthquakes, fault lights type type activity. I'm working with I'm 268 00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:52.400 putting together a research project and I'm I'm enlistening the help of doctor Marsha Adams, 269 00:21:52.440 --> 00:21:57.119 who is a an expert in the earthlit phenomenon. It's actually he's got 270 00:21:57.119 --> 00:22:03.039 a very good website called earth lights dot org that I, you know, 271 00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:07.319 I urge your listeners to check out. She's a real top notch scientist. 272 00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:14.839 I tend to keep al Hondra very very open mind. I don't factor anything 273 00:22:14.960 --> 00:22:21.640 in or anything out, but I do try to ground my analytical process in 274 00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:29.440 the data. I don't jump off into the realm of wanting to believe that 275 00:22:29.599 --> 00:22:34.680 something is one thing or another. I tend to try to to the best 276 00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:38.400 of my amateur ability. I'm just an amateur here. I don't have any 277 00:22:38.440 --> 00:22:42.640 sort of you know, credential, So I'm not a veterinary pathologist when I'm 278 00:22:44.079 --> 00:22:48.839 out there investigating cattle mutilations. I'm not an astrophysicist, but I am really 279 00:22:48.839 --> 00:22:55.119 at the speed I've been trained by some very very good, very smart bite. 280 00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:59.079 We have to go to break pretty soon here. But I didn't want 281 00:22:59.119 --> 00:23:03.039 to mention you aren't author. And you do have several books and one in 282 00:23:03.079 --> 00:23:06.920 the valley called the Mysterious Valley, Right, And what is a website where 283 00:23:06.920 --> 00:23:11.599 maybe people could look at that website during the break? Sure Our Strange planet 284 00:23:11.720 --> 00:23:17.119 dot com oh you are Strange Planet dot com. My recent books Talking the 285 00:23:17.160 --> 00:23:22.200 Tristers is there and Secrets of the Mysterious Valley, which is kind of a 286 00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:26.599 compilation book about my thirteen years in the valley. There. All right, 287 00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:29.400 we'll talk more about that researcher, and we do have a caller on the 288 00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:33.920 line, Christine. Stay tuned. We'll get to you after this break because 289 00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:36.960 we've got to go to break first, and after the break we will be 290 00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:41.599 talking more about Chris's books, more about some of the mysteries of the valley. 291 00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:44.160 So it's going to be great. Remember, you can go to Openminds 292 00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:48.079 dot tv if you want to watch us live. So stay tuned. You 293 00:23:48.119 --> 00:24:19.880 are listening to Open Minds Radio and we'll be right back. This is Open 294 00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:27.599 Minds Radio here again your host UFO paranormal researcher and journalist Alejandro Rojas. Hello, 295 00:24:27.799 --> 00:24:32.480 and welcome back to Open Minds Radio. We are talking to Chris O'Brien 296 00:24:33.039 --> 00:24:37.359 about the mysterious San Luis Valley in Colorado. We do have a caller online, 297 00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:42.039 Christine from Oregon. Are you there, Christine, Yes, I am 298 00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:48.240 okay, great, what is your question for Chris? Okay? Hello, 299 00:24:48.319 --> 00:24:52.720 Chris, My name how courses. Christine and I used to live fifteen miles 300 00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:59.680 from the Skinwalker Ranch in Rosa Dot, Utah, and I was just wondering, 301 00:25:00.519 --> 00:25:11.400 but the similarities are between my mind, like the pelayout and the Skinmock 302 00:25:11.559 --> 00:25:19.799 Ranch, especially the agenda A very good question. I for whatever reason, 303 00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:26.039 just as a quick caveat I for many years I put sort of investigative blinders 304 00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:32.480 on and I would only investigate reports that were from the Greater Family Sally region. 305 00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:37.839 And I considered that my kind of scientific investigative petri dish, if you 306 00:25:37.880 --> 00:25:42.599 will. And the only case that really drew me out of that valley was 307 00:25:42.759 --> 00:25:47.240 the Sherman Ranch case up in the inn A base in the south of Fort 308 00:25:47.319 --> 00:25:55.119 de Shame. I think the first national investigator on the site. Just as 309 00:25:55.279 --> 00:25:59.720 the initial Zach Vneck article came out. In fact, Zach called me and 310 00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:02.680 said, you know, he'd really appreciated if I would talk to Terry and 311 00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:07.400 Gwen and give them, you know, at least show them that there were 312 00:26:07.400 --> 00:26:11.359 people out there that were, you know, involved in investigating the type of 313 00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:15.119 things that they had been dealing with there for a year and a half two 314 00:26:15.160 --> 00:26:22.079 years. I feel that that is probably one of the most important locations and 315 00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:30.440 cases on record. I feel it is probably the most amazing single series of 316 00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:36.920 events in the paranormal that I'm aware of, and I do see a lot 317 00:26:36.920 --> 00:26:41.000 of parallels. As a matter of fact, there were times when we would 318 00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:48.200 see the exact same type of activity occurring simultaneously in Colorado that they would be 319 00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:56.079 experiencing up there on the Sherman Ranch, and the famous incident where Terry lost 320 00:26:56.119 --> 00:27:00.960 his two dogs and they were melted into piles of Greece. Basically when the 321 00:27:00.039 --> 00:27:04.920 Blue Orbs came and checked out his horses and din the lights of the of 322 00:27:04.319 --> 00:27:08.480 the ranch there and checked out his wife. I happened to be on the 323 00:27:08.519 --> 00:27:12.359 phone Mitary when all that was going on, and after I hung up with 324 00:27:12.440 --> 00:27:18.039 him, I got a report of almost an exact type of of you know 325 00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:26.160 of of Blue thoft Walfi's light. I find the synchronicity involved in this whole 326 00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:32.720 realm as being a very crucial I think the important key to potentially understanding or 327 00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:37.640 furthering our understanding of these things. And again I do really feel that at 328 00:27:37.640 --> 00:27:45.319 some point it's really beholden to Nits to come clean and at least give you 329 00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:51.039 know, the research community access to the mountains of data that they have been 330 00:27:51.079 --> 00:27:57.000 able to compile over the last thirteen years that they've been up there, you 331 00:27:57.079 --> 00:28:03.759 know, knowing George Knapp and tell her and talking extensively with Terry and and 332 00:28:04.559 --> 00:28:07.839 you know, having a kind of an insider's sort of view on the case. 333 00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:14.279 I feel the book Hunt for the Skinwalkers did not adequately address the case. 334 00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:18.279 There was quite a bit of information that was left out. Very few 335 00:28:18.279 --> 00:28:21.039 people in the book are on the record. There was no pitches, no 336 00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:27.160 data. I feel that this realm. I understand the scientific approach of not 337 00:28:27.279 --> 00:28:34.079 publicizing research before it's it's ready to be peer reviewed, but at the same 338 00:28:34.119 --> 00:28:38.519 time, I think that the research community should be tapped and should be brought 339 00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:44.000 into ongoing cases like the Sherman Ranch case. And I don't feel that NI 340 00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:48.200 has done an adequate job of doing that. And you know, people go 341 00:28:48.279 --> 00:28:52.039 to my website Ourstrange planet dot com. My entire database is there. I 342 00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:56.279 don't care if you're from the intelligence community or you know, you're you know, 343 00:28:56.359 --> 00:29:02.319 Christine from customers about Utah. Anybody is welcome to my data. And 344 00:29:02.359 --> 00:29:07.440 I'm honored that anyone would even consider checking it out and feeling that, you 345 00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:11.960 know, it is an important huge As Alejandro can tell you, I popped 346 00:29:11.960 --> 00:29:17.200 a hard copy of my citing satting log on the desk there a couple of 347 00:29:17.240 --> 00:29:19.519 weeks back, and you know, I'm real proud of the amount of work 348 00:29:19.559 --> 00:29:23.519 that I did there, and I'm willing to share and detail my efforts with 349 00:29:23.680 --> 00:29:30.440 anybody out there who feels that my work can help shed some light on their 350 00:29:30.519 --> 00:29:34.319 process. And I feel we need more teamwork in this field. We don't 351 00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:41.759 need a lot of individuals running around or organizations running around in a proprietary for 352 00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:45.240 fashion trying to reinvent the wheel. I think if we put our heads together, 353 00:29:45.279 --> 00:29:48.519 we have a much better chance of figuring out all this stuff than we 354 00:29:48.599 --> 00:29:52.559 do if we go to Loone And that ranch is not too far from the 355 00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:56.960 San Luis Valley, really four hundred and thirty miles four hundred and thirty miles, 356 00:29:56.960 --> 00:30:00.079 so that's fairly close, and it was it's the same. Well, 357 00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:04.880 at least I know youth Indian tribes have lived in all of these areas. 358 00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:08.079 That's what Utah is named after, and I know they lived in the valley 359 00:30:08.119 --> 00:30:12.960 as well. Do you know of some youth legends that kind of refer to 360 00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:18.359 some of this activity. Well, the youths have a very interesting uh you 361 00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:25.160 know, the traditional UH set of knowledge that is kind of unique in a 362 00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:30.519 way. They're they're very for hundreds and hundreds of years, and for many 363 00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:33.720 generations, they were nomadic. So they when you say they lived in the 364 00:30:33.799 --> 00:30:37.440 valley, they didn't really live there. They didn't really live anywhere. They 365 00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:41.359 were always on the move. Of course, they did tend to hang in 366 00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:45.559 places during the warm warmer months where there was plentiful game and you know, 367 00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:51.440 a food source, so they would stay for extending periods of time in locations. 368 00:30:51.440 --> 00:30:55.640 But they weren't like the Pueblo UH people, the Zuni, the Hope, 369 00:30:56.319 --> 00:31:00.400 et cetera. They didn't build permanent uh the villages and settlements. They 370 00:31:00.440 --> 00:31:06.160 were always on the move. The youths have a really interesting tradition as it 371 00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:08.559 relates to the valley. One of the things that I should point out now 372 00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:11.920 that you know we brought up the subjects of Native Americans, the San Luis 373 00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:18.160 Valley is the only region in North America that three regional groups of Indians co 374 00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:22.759 inhabited and shared during the warmer months. The Great Basin Indians like the Youths, 375 00:31:23.480 --> 00:31:29.079 the Southwestern tribes, the Pueblo Indians and the Navajo, the Domain, 376 00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:33.599 Apaches, and the Great Plains Indians, you know, of course the Lakota, 377 00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:40.160 Dakota, of the Cherokee, Neo Apahoe. They would all peacefully coexist 378 00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:44.880 in the valley until you know, of course, the white settlers arrived, 379 00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:52.480 and then then warfare broke out between tribes. But for many, many generations, 380 00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:56.400 it was a place of a sacred you know, vision quest area, 381 00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:05.319 sacred hunting ground. There was no violence between humans that for many many years. 382 00:32:05.480 --> 00:32:08.079 And it was only until you brought in the wildcard of the Spanish, 383 00:32:08.119 --> 00:32:13.000 you know, coming up to real grand and then of course the miners and 384 00:32:13.079 --> 00:32:19.079 the settlers coming in that you started to see, you know, problems between 385 00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:24.160 the tribes. But yeah, my family history, actually one of my ancestors 386 00:32:24.200 --> 00:32:31.680 was a Pueblo Indian who started the Pueblo revolt and then his son worked with 387 00:32:31.720 --> 00:32:37.039 the Spaniards when they came back. And I guess, but I do, 388 00:32:37.160 --> 00:32:39.000 I guess Before I share, I do want to share you the story from 389 00:32:39.039 --> 00:32:44.880 my history family history that was kind of strange, but so are there native 390 00:32:44.920 --> 00:32:49.400 I would assume there are Native American legends about some of the strangeness that goes 391 00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:53.279 on down there. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I you know, of 392 00:32:53.279 --> 00:32:59.680 course, this is the hardest type of research to do because you're dealing with 393 00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:05.720 indigenous cultures that didn't write anything down. So uh, basically it's it's quite 394 00:33:05.720 --> 00:33:10.920 a process too, you know, to meet people that are holders of of 395 00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:15.240 of the oil tradition and get them to a place where they trust a nosy 396 00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:20.240 white boy with a black cowboy hat. So that that that, you know, 397 00:33:20.279 --> 00:33:25.400 I worked many years, uh, cultivating relationships, honoring requests for anonymity, 398 00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:29.119 uh, you know, and and and being a stand up guy, 399 00:33:29.319 --> 00:33:35.480 and so that elicited trust and in over the years, and finally Native Americans 400 00:33:35.519 --> 00:33:38.400 would open up to me and uh and share things. And yes, the 401 00:33:38.519 --> 00:33:44.720 area is the location of the sacred Mountain of the East system of Jimmy. 402 00:33:44.839 --> 00:33:52.480 In the Dnate tradition, Banca Peak is considered the portal or gateway to realities 403 00:33:52.519 --> 00:33:59.640 where all thought originates. I did manage to shoehorn some interesting observations from one 404 00:34:00.519 --> 00:34:06.839 Native American medicine man, Dnay Navajope, who said that there are doorways in 405 00:34:06.920 --> 00:34:09.440 the song grated Crystal Mountains, which make up the whole eastern side of the 406 00:34:09.559 --> 00:34:15.000 Family STALLI it's the longest continuous mountain range in North America. And he said 407 00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:22.199 that there's a doorway or doorways that exists between Blanca Peak and Crestone Peak, 408 00:34:22.239 --> 00:34:25.119 which is about a forty five mile stretch of the Song Grays. And I 409 00:34:25.199 --> 00:34:29.199 tried to get him to pin it down, and he got a little exasperated 410 00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:31.360 and said, well, there is no spot. It moves. And I 411 00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:37.239 found that very interesting. It's almost like it could be some sort of vortex 412 00:34:37.400 --> 00:34:44.840 or portal that may somehow move because of some sort of relationship with THEIRS magnetic 413 00:34:44.920 --> 00:34:49.719 field that I know a lot of people have reported UFOs flying into Blanca Peak. 414 00:34:49.760 --> 00:34:52.920 In fact, I've heard of a report of what looked like a yellow 415 00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:59.679 airplane flying into the peak. Yeah. During and between sixty six and sixty 416 00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:05.400 nine, there were dozens and dozens of reports of these small scout craft, 417 00:35:05.559 --> 00:35:08.079 you know, ten twelve, fifteen foot craft that would be flying in and 418 00:35:08.119 --> 00:35:14.440 out of Middle Creek Hill, which is just north of Blanca Peak. I've 419 00:35:14.519 --> 00:35:20.119 also you know, my siding log has reports of not only spots or type 420 00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:24.039 craft or you know anomalous craft flying into the mountains, but also conventional air 421 00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:32.360 force craft that was seen flying into the mountains. I personally saw with binoculars 422 00:35:32.960 --> 00:35:39.079 one one. It was untainted. It was aluminum colored and shiny. It 423 00:35:39.159 --> 00:35:44.880 was actually kicking off reflections from the sun like it didn't have a pain job, 424 00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:47.719 and it blinked out right, you know, I had binoculars on this 425 00:35:47.800 --> 00:35:51.719 thing. Wow, incredible. Well, let's finish up. I'll talk more 426 00:35:51.719 --> 00:35:53.519 about that. We've got to go to break right now. We'll be right 427 00:35:53.559 --> 00:35:59.320 back. We're talking to Chris O'Brien about the mysterious San Luis Valley in Colorado 428 00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:01.679 and the UFO sightings that he's had out there. We'll be back in just 429 00:36:01.719 --> 00:36:19.159 a minute. Welcome back to open Minds Radio. Here now, former official 430 00:36:19.239 --> 00:36:23.440 spokesperson for the Mutual UFO Network, your host of Open Minds Radio, Alejandro 431 00:36:23.599 --> 00:36:29.719 Rojas, Hello, and welcome back. You're listening to Open Minds Radio and 432 00:36:29.800 --> 00:36:35.280 we're talking to investigator and author Chris O'Brien, who's written about a lot of 433 00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:39.519 strange phenomena happening in the San Luis Valley of Colorado. And Chris, we 434 00:36:39.559 --> 00:36:44.199 have another caller on the line, Ronald from Phoenix, Ronald, Are you 435 00:36:44.239 --> 00:36:49.719 there? Yeah? Have you ever seen any black triangles or V shaped craft? 436 00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:59.360 Truthfully? Possibly? One? One black triangle? Pardon me, one 437 00:36:59.400 --> 00:37:04.239 black trian? Cool? Yeah, it was a nocturnal, unlit triangle that 438 00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:10.440 blocked out the stars. Of course, of it nine feet The stars are 439 00:37:10.480 --> 00:37:15.039 quite dramatic, and if something flies between you and them, it's pretty easy 440 00:37:15.079 --> 00:37:21.559 to determine that it's you know, its size and approximate shape. I did 441 00:37:21.719 --> 00:37:25.400 have one sighting of a large, super large triangular object that blocked out the 442 00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:30.519 stars, but it had no lights on it. It's interesting that you should 443 00:37:30.519 --> 00:37:36.760 ask. We've had well over a dozen reports of triangle shaped objects in the 444 00:37:36.840 --> 00:37:40.760 valley, including four reports by law enforcement that I feel is some of the 445 00:37:40.800 --> 00:37:47.880 best in our databases. You have any video video tape, you have any 446 00:37:49.639 --> 00:37:54.599 video footage of view of No, I personally don't, and I don't know 447 00:37:54.639 --> 00:38:00.239 of any. Generally, these things are seen, you know, by by 448 00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:05.320 people that are out in the backwoods areas. They tend to fly over the 449 00:38:05.400 --> 00:38:10.320 more unpopulated remote areas and oftentimes, you know, back in the nineties, 450 00:38:10.760 --> 00:38:14.639 it's not like today where you have a lot of you know, cell phone 451 00:38:14.639 --> 00:38:19.760 cameras and whatnot. But when they're the ex sheriff of a county tells you 452 00:38:19.840 --> 00:38:23.960 that he saw a big triangle being accompanied by S sixteen flying slowly over the 453 00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:27.920 San Juans, who might have tell him that he's pulling my leg? You 454 00:38:27.960 --> 00:38:30.639 know what I mean? All Right, thanks for your call, Ronald, 455 00:38:30.760 --> 00:38:35.679 And speaking of you know, the law enforcement, have they been cooperative with 456 00:38:35.719 --> 00:38:39.599 you and your investigations. Absolutely. In fact, one of the sheriffs kind 457 00:38:39.639 --> 00:38:45.400 of referred to me as his unofficial deputy of weirdness. I've worked very closely 458 00:38:45.480 --> 00:38:50.920 with three counties, and I wished I'd been able to work that closely with 459 00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:57.199 two other counties, but I did have a working relationship with five sheriff's departments. 460 00:38:57.639 --> 00:39:00.119 That's a cool title. That'd be a good title for US television show, 461 00:39:00.199 --> 00:39:05.239 the Deputy of Weirdness. Deputy of Weirdness there you go, or for 462 00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:10.320 professional wrestler. If they had a cattle mutilation case, they would instantly just 463 00:39:12.119 --> 00:39:15.239 you know, call me in on it, and I would be the first 464 00:39:15.239 --> 00:39:20.000 person to get called in, and we'd go ahead and do a field investigation 465 00:39:20.119 --> 00:39:23.519 of the site and we gather forensic evidence, planning, soil samples, that 466 00:39:23.639 --> 00:39:30.400 sort of thing. Law enforcement in the valley is is pretty gunshy right now 467 00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:35.440 because of all the publicity that was generated by my work, not by me. 468 00:39:35.719 --> 00:39:39.920 I've never called the media ever to get on TV shows, radio shows, 469 00:39:39.960 --> 00:39:47.159 in newspaper articles. I prefer the Eisenberg approach, you know, where 470 00:39:47.199 --> 00:39:51.400 the observer, you know, affects what he's observing. So I'm not going 471 00:39:51.440 --> 00:39:57.599 to go out there and pump myself as a personality or the Sandy Sally as 472 00:39:57.599 --> 00:40:04.559 as a hotspot area. I'll at the actual work itself sort of generate the 473 00:40:04.599 --> 00:40:08.880 interest. So yeah, law enforcement got a little bit gun shy after so 474 00:40:08.960 --> 00:40:14.280 many TV shows started showing up and stuff. But I still am in contact 475 00:40:14.280 --> 00:40:17.559 with them, and I did get reports from them, especially in the cattle 476 00:40:17.559 --> 00:40:22.480 death room. Well let's talk about, you know, in the last segment 477 00:40:22.559 --> 00:40:31.320 here your books, in your latest book. Okay, jeez, Yeah, 478 00:40:31.760 --> 00:40:36.519 there's just so much to it. I'm sure flown by oh, I know, 479 00:40:36.679 --> 00:40:42.840 the Times, just finding the Trickster in ten minutes. Basically my first 480 00:40:43.480 --> 00:40:46.840 three books. The knock on them by some of the people that were really 481 00:40:46.840 --> 00:40:52.519 interested in what I was doing was that I didn't really present any sort of 482 00:40:52.599 --> 00:40:58.840 theories or come up with any sort of rationale for who was behind all these 483 00:40:59.559 --> 00:41:05.000 events, from hauntings to spook wides to which is a cult, crimes, 484 00:41:05.039 --> 00:41:09.320 the weird weather, catamuulations, all sorts of UFO stuff, Native American legends, 485 00:41:09.360 --> 00:41:15.639 secret military bases. All this type of stuff is information is contained in 486 00:41:15.679 --> 00:41:21.519 my books about reports that I fielded, But I didn't really come up with 487 00:41:21.639 --> 00:41:28.159 a with a overarching theories that would attempt to explain how and why all this 488 00:41:28.159 --> 00:41:31.480 stuff was going on and who was perpetrating it. So it took about ten 489 00:41:31.559 --> 00:41:37.239 years and I started to slowly develop a theory that we're dealing with some sort 490 00:41:37.239 --> 00:41:44.599 of collective manifestation within the human collective unconscious, which is, you know, 491 00:41:44.679 --> 00:41:50.119 one of a whole group of a dozen or so archetypes. You know, 492 00:41:50.199 --> 00:41:54.400 I'm a real follower of Carl Jung, who was Sigmund Freud's star pupil. 493 00:41:54.960 --> 00:41:59.760 He came up with the idea of the collective human unconscious. He came up 494 00:41:59.800 --> 00:42:04.639 with some basic symbols that exist in all cultures, the hero, the king, 495 00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:08.599 the god, the goddess, the shadow, and the trickster. The 496 00:42:08.639 --> 00:42:15.440 trickster is the most ancient and primordial collective archetype or symbol within all of human 497 00:42:15.639 --> 00:42:22.719 culture worldwide. It's the oldest archetype that has features facial features. So the 498 00:42:22.800 --> 00:42:28.239 trickster is you can divide into three categories. One is the antipomorphosized animal like 499 00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:31.840 coyote would be an example. The second is the tragic hero, which would 500 00:42:31.880 --> 00:42:37.760 be like Prometheus or Loki. Prometheus, of course, stole fire from Zeus 501 00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:42.639 and gave it to humanity. Those two types of twists tend to provide humanity 502 00:42:42.679 --> 00:42:47.559 with changes either in gaya the environment or supplying technology to help better the human 503 00:42:47.599 --> 00:42:52.440 condition. The third type is the shamanic trickster, which is kind of the 504 00:42:52.519 --> 00:42:57.840 link between the paranormal side and the human side. Of course, we've had 505 00:42:57.960 --> 00:43:05.119 shamans for thousands of years. Monotheism, of course stamped out the shamanic process 506 00:43:05.159 --> 00:43:08.559 in the Western world and replaced it with the priest class. But the shamanic 507 00:43:08.639 --> 00:43:15.880 trickster is the most I think the form that people could identify with most readily. 508 00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:21.119 Bernie Madoff, Harry Houdini, Chris Angel. These are kind of in 509 00:43:21.719 --> 00:43:25.079 one way, shape or form or another. There are kind of shamanic tricksters. 510 00:43:25.679 --> 00:43:30.400 Flight of hand stage with the magic, going and treating on Halloween, 511 00:43:31.239 --> 00:43:37.159 putting a mask on a masquerade ball, Ronald McDonald, and clown forms. 512 00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:43.239 These are all basically developments of the trickster as it's been sort of manifested in 513 00:43:43.280 --> 00:43:47.920 modern culture. Most people don't realize that the trickster is probably one of the 514 00:43:47.920 --> 00:43:53.880 most powerful forces for creating change in our societies, in our cultures, and 515 00:43:54.519 --> 00:44:00.519 right now we're living probably in the most tricksterish times in several hundred deers, 516 00:44:00.880 --> 00:44:05.079 And do you feel like that the ranch in Utah and the San Luis Valley 517 00:44:05.079 --> 00:44:14.239 are places that somehow manifests that trickster kind of doing these things is utilizing trickster 518 00:44:14.400 --> 00:44:20.119 methodology and utilizing trickster tools. The classic case that the Sherman Ranch would be 519 00:44:21.119 --> 00:44:25.719 two cameras in line of sight with one another. One camera crashes and goes 520 00:44:25.760 --> 00:44:30.320 down, the other cameras filming it, and when they go check out the 521 00:44:30.360 --> 00:44:32.000 camera that crashed, all the wires are ripped out, and the other camera 522 00:44:32.039 --> 00:44:36.679 didn't pick up anything. How do you explain that It seems to me that 523 00:44:36.719 --> 00:44:42.159 there's some sort of tricksterish force or energy that's involved in most, if not 524 00:44:42.239 --> 00:44:47.599 all, paranormal phenomena, and I think we should, as smart creative thinkers, 525 00:44:49.119 --> 00:44:57.920 factor out all closed system earthbound biosphere explanations to explain all these things before 526 00:44:57.960 --> 00:45:01.440 we get anthropomorphic enough to who think that we're important enough for anything out there 527 00:45:01.480 --> 00:45:06.400 to be coming here. As you know, Alejandro, I have a real 528 00:45:06.480 --> 00:45:12.199 problem with the extraterrestrial hypothesis. I don't feel that there's a shred of evidence 529 00:45:12.280 --> 00:45:15.639 to suggest that we're important enough for anything out there to come and visit us. 530 00:45:15.039 --> 00:45:22.239 I think all a majority of these paranormal phenomena and these entities and energies 531 00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:27.760 are all generated by this closed system here called Earth. And you know, 532 00:45:27.880 --> 00:45:35.280 I'm not very popular in some circles in ufology for saying this, but I 533 00:45:35.280 --> 00:45:42.039 think people like mac Tone's Jacques Ballet John Teel have been slowly trying to get 534 00:45:42.079 --> 00:45:46.239 people to get creative in their thinking and not buy into their to their wants 535 00:45:46.760 --> 00:45:52.199 to believe sort of, you know, side I really fine, Yeah, 536 00:45:52.199 --> 00:45:54.599 I think I see what you're saying, because I do appreciate, you know, 537 00:45:55.039 --> 00:46:00.920 personally, John Keel, Sanderson, even Sanderson even into some of these 538 00:46:00.719 --> 00:46:07.320 well, and even doctor j Allen Heinek and some of these alternative answers that 539 00:46:07.519 --> 00:46:12.800 may explain. Well, for sixty years the conventional nuts and bolts. Guys 540 00:46:12.880 --> 00:46:15.760 haven't taken us very far, have they, right? I mean, whether 541 00:46:15.800 --> 00:46:20.280 we know now that we didn't know sixty years ago, very little? Right? 542 00:46:20.360 --> 00:46:22.639 Well, unfortunately we know it's all equivocal. We can't prove it, 543 00:46:22.920 --> 00:46:27.880 right. Unfortunately, we are out of time. I know, we are 544 00:46:27.920 --> 00:46:30.679 talking about it for full two hours. Man, we just lick in the 545 00:46:30.679 --> 00:46:32.440 tip of the iceberg. Alejandro, Oh, I hear you, man. 546 00:46:32.519 --> 00:46:36.280 I knew this would happen because I knew, you know, when we talked 547 00:46:36.320 --> 00:46:39.159 before that time would fly. And sure enough it did. And we're out 548 00:46:39.159 --> 00:46:44.679 of time. But let them know your website again real quick. It's our 549 00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:50.639 Strange Planet. Oh you are strange planet dot com and my entire database is 550 00:46:50.639 --> 00:46:52.719 there. It's free to sign up, and I don't give your name away 551 00:46:52.760 --> 00:46:57.360 to any sort of email spammers. Good, all right, well, yeah, 552 00:46:57.360 --> 00:46:59.920 I invite everybody to come in and check it out. All right, 553 00:47:00.039 --> 00:47:04.360 thank you very much for being on the show. No problem, Let's do 554 00:47:04.440 --> 00:47:07.679 it again. Oh for sure, it's a pleasure. Next week we're gonna 555 00:47:07.679 --> 00:47:13.199 have James Fox. He's the guy who did the couple of great documentaries on 556 00:47:13.360 --> 00:47:16.519 UFOs. I know what I saw was the latest one and we'll be talking 557 00:47:16.519 --> 00:47:21.880 to him about his experiences creating these great documentaries. So we'll see you next 558 00:47:21.880 --> 00:47:29.800 week. Thanks for listening to Open Minds Radio. Bleak do you watch your 559 00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:51.679 feet? Let folks,