Hello, and welcome to Open Mind UFO Radio. I am your host,
Alejandro Rojas, and I am with Martin in UFO. Willis Okay, Yes,
I you called me that before, and I have used that before,
and uh, this time, I use it because I couldn't come up with
something else. And but this is the other thing. It's right in front
of my face as your Skype icon, your logo, and it's got your
face kind of hovering above the planet Earth. So you're like this gigantic I'm
the mother ship. Yeah, you're this huge mother ship that is your head
kind of coming to I don't know what you're doing here too, and you
almost look like some sort of deity, yes, smiling upon the planet.
Uh huh, So that's it. Did you put together that? I kind
of process. I have no idea, And when I did, I don't
even remember. That was when I think I joined skyped I think that was
like four years ago, five years ago maybe, so I don't even really
remember. Okay, so you're not like an extraterrestrial who has come to Earth
too enlightened all of us or something, and that this is what you're trying
to portray in this this picture. Well, probably I mean, oh,
yes, I am, but I probably you know, just threw that picture
together. Well it's interesting. We'll have to talk about what planet you're from
and kind of where your message is. Oh yeah, yeah, good,
well welcome. Yes, it's good to be here. So I haven't even
told you this, Like I stayed home. I came home early today because
I just for some reason, I'm feeling really not very good today. So
oh yeah, So that's why I need to apologize to the listeners, because
that's why this show is not getting up Monday, and it's actually going to
get up Tuesday, which is tomorrow, because actually today is Monday, but
it's late, but nobody knows that. Yes later in the day. Now
they know it, and I'm gonna I just don't have the energy or that,
like my brain is not functioning well, so I will not be putting
up the show. And actually I was feeling I wasn't feeling that great the
other day when I did the interview with our interviewee our guests today, and
I was a little worried about that because it's some pretty heavy stuff for me,
but I got so interested in what he had to say that I felt
just fine and I felt that the interview went really well. In fact,
it goes a little long, but I interviewed Pauldine. I know you've had
him on the show before, but he's an Australian guy and I've gotten familiar
with him. I know you and I have talked about him, but he's
always sending me stuff on Facebook about I've got these files and I got those
files and you know, government files from doing FOYA And at first I thought
maybe he was just kind of full of hot air, because I get a
lot of these people saying, oh, I've found files that no one's ever
found before, and it's rare that that is the case, because you know,
I follow you know, this sort of thing quite closely, especially like
John Greenwall doing foyas all the time and others. So and I belonged to
some groups where they talk about this stuff and he was in some of these
groups. But you know, he would send me so many files. It
was so overwhelming, and I've been wanting to tackle this to get to see
what he's gotten. Over time, I started looking at the files and he
does have some really good stuff and so it's been great. I think this
is part one and fifty as far as the interview today getting delving into what
he's gotten, and I'll be posting more about what he's finding, but he's
kind of following that thread. I mean, we hear Bluebook investigated UFOs,
they didn't find anything. Then through Foya people like you know when we talk
about this, there's a Foyer researcher, Barry Greenwood, there is John Greenwald,
others who have found other files that show that there were other investigations.
But the question is, you know, you and I have talked about this,
and I talked about it with Richard Hoffman quite a bit in our interview.
Where do those files go? Who's got those files? And that's what's
so fascinating as Paul Dean has really been asking that same question and he's been
figuring that out. So I think it's fascinating and really interesting stuff. So
yeah, I hope everybody enjoys the interview as much as I did coming up
here after you and I talked about the news. Yeah, sounds good.
You know, it's I also wonder like where you know, if something's going
on in our airspace, it can't be just ignored. You know that someone
somewhere has to be looking into it, especially when it comes to like protected
airspace or you know, or near anything military. You know, it's just
someone has to be investigating. Yeah, I agree. So yeah, so
we'll talk about that, But before we do, why don't you and I
talk about some UFO news. And we always let you start this portion off
because we are gracious hosts to our wonderful guest here. So what do you
got there for us? Bill? This is it's titled Witness says photo show
UFO changing shape. Oh yeah, yeah, I'm always intrigued by these.
And this is a grass valley which is out kind of in the middle of
nowhere. I've been there towards Lake Tahoe from San Francisco. It's kind of
like in a very it's very hot in the summer. Grass valley. And
anyway, this happened back and on May twenty second, not too long ago,
and the witness stepped out in his back porch and just by chance he
looked up and noticed a dot in the sky. I'm sorry he saw this
dotting this guy. This sounds very intriguing. What happened next, Well,
he thought it was a planet, but after observing it, he realized it
was moving from left to right, eas to south, and a slight upward
angle, and he realized it was not a planet and too slow to be
a satellite. So he basically sent his friend in to get a camera or
a phone or whatever and started taking pictures of these. This thing went up
into a higher altitude sort of like into a transparent cloud, and then it
just faded from sight. But while it was moving, it was well you
can see it in the pictures on the website. That first a first of
all, is very find or in one of the pictures, is very defined
and oblong, and then it's kind of like squashed looking. I mean,
it really looks like something kind of unexplainable, you know. I mean it
doesn't about a balloon wouldn't do that. A number of things, just plane
wouldn't do that. So and I don't know if it had anything to do
with photography, someone like Mark de' antonio would know that. But it is
really some intriguing there's five intriguing photos right in this article. Yeah, the
photos are weird, I would agree, and I think some of them,
in fact, most of them are camera problems. Like actually three out of
the five pictures, I would say looks like it's just out of focus.
However, you have very clear images on the first and the fifth photo,
and they are distinct objects in this sky. Colors are similar in each it
could be a white or silver thing that's reflective, and but the shape is
distinctly different in both of the pictures, like very different. I mean,
one is kind of like an oblong shape and up and down, and then
the other is kind of like it's hard a canister with round little things on
the bottom. Right, Really weird. That is pretty weird, unless it's
some kind of balloon tumbling or something. I don't know. This is a
weird one. I agree. I like this one. Yeah, I don't
think it doesn't look like something that would be tumbling, because if you look
at the it just wouldn't the shape wise, it wouldn't really make sense because
it's sort of round looking when it's oblong. And then the second picture is
squatty with like you said, little like a canister with little like almost looks
like legs sticking out. It is really an odd duck, a little squatty,
a squatty duck, yes, yeah, but interesting squatty duck. UFO.
I like that. Yeah, that's a good one. That is a
good one. There's another video. That one was posted by Roger Marsh.
And there's a video that was posted by Roger Marsh also, and this was
from May twenty sixth at nine thirty pm. Now, this video is a
white dot. It's pretty bright, but it's moving pretty steadily through the sky.
It's a little cloudy, so it looks like it's this side of the
clouds. Did you see this one? Yes? I did, And however,
I kind of feel like this one is a Chinese lantern. He said
it was a translucent square with a sphere in the middle, which is a
good description of a Chinese lantern. Now, the field investigator for MUFAN said
he didn't think that's what it was because the wind was going in the different
direction was one of the reasons, and he thought the speed of the object
was not like a balloon. However, I don't know. I don't agree
with that assessment. Necessarily, winds at different levels go different directions, and
given the description and the movement at least in the video, it really I
think it's probably a Chinese lantern. So I don't know. People can take
a look at what do you think am I wrong on this one. It's
awful hard to say in my opinion, because the thing looks so tiny in
the video. You can't really I mean, if it was blown up and
you know, didn't lose the you know it's quality, you could actually see
a lot more about it. But it's so far off it's really hard to
tell. And it's sounded like you're kind of it was kind of like based
on the witness testimony what he was seeing, but you certainly can't really tell
in the video. Yeah, unless you're looking at it in some type of
computer. I'm not, I mean, now, yeah, well, it's
just that it flickers, I think, like and the description fits a Chinese
lantern like perfectly. So those darn things, those damn things, well,
you know, as we just get more and more, as we've talked about
before, things with lights on them up in the sky. In fact,
I'm surrounded with these little led lights right now here and there throughout our house
because there was a party here for we had for my girlfriend's teenage daughter because
she was leaving for a trip, and so she had our friends over and
we lit up these balloons with led lights in them, and you know,
the helium's side. And now these things have popped and these little tiny I
mean, these LEDs are so small, and here we are a week and
a half later, and most of them still have power. So yeah,
I'm looking at there's one over here. It's still lit up. So I
mean, the technology with these LEDs is amazing. I mean, this little
one right here, I could tape this to absolutely anything, or I could
take a dozen to something and and floated in the sky and it would look
pretty pretty cool. So yeah, so many different things lights in the sky
these days, right, so many things to call be called a UFO.
So Roswell, Roswell the story that knows never goes away, and some people
get really upset about that. And actually, uh, there's a new Roswell's
story here, and it's really interesting. I think, Well, if you
look at it on the surface, it's just another story. And that's one
of the hard parts when it comes to the Roswell alleged UFO crashes. It's
mostly anecdotal stories from these people. How do you know if you can trust
them or not because some of them are so elaborate, and and that's all
you that's mostly all you got. So who do you believe in? Who
do you not believe? And people may be thinking these stories are diamond dozen,
so why the heck would I post yet another one of them, especially
from an anonymous source. But here's the deal is that this was posted by
Mary Joyce of sky Ships over Cashiers. She's a very hard working person in
this field who is always looking for stories and posting some stuff. And this
one's interesting in that she just she never posts YouTube videos. This is her
first YouTube video, but she felt that this interview with a friend of hers
over this alleged medal that this lady played with as a child that she believed
came from the Roswell crash, that if you listen to it, that's what's
interesting. So you can read my story, and some people have and some
people have even said, you know what, this is just another story.
But I implore people even you know, you don't even have to read the
article. Just hit play right at the top on the video on the top
and you can hear this lady tell her story and she just you can tell
she's articulate and intelligent, and it's just really interesting. She says, as
a ten year old kid, she had a boyfriend who who, and she
was a military brad essentially. They both lived at Wright Patterson Air Force which
is also, you know, where Blue Book was housed and where everybody believes
that's where they would have sent the material because that's where the Division for Foreign
Technology is. So this her boyfriend's dad was a colonel, and he worked
in a very secretive area. According to the kid, you know, he
lived in or his office was underground. Even he had to take an elevator
underground. But this kid got a hold of this strange medal and it sounds
like the metal hear about Roswell. They could crunch it, They tried to
cut it with scissors, and they couldn't destroy it. They burned it.
And these kids sounded you know. She talks about how they were just very
curious and an intelligence sounding kids, and they kept trying to do all of
this different stuff testing this metal. Finally, it's kind of funny because actually
she says, her dad, you know, used to go around and he
couldn't tell him where he was going on his missions. She doesn't think he
did anything UFO related, but one time she read about Silly Putty and asked
her dad when it first came out to get her some so he did and
she was playing with it, and her boyfriend, who she calls John and
the story, saw it and he just went crazy. He thought it was
the coolest thing ever. And he said, I'll trade you the metal,
the weird metal, for the silly putty, and she's like, well,
I don't know. But finally he talked her into it. And but then
this guy, the colonel, came and was really up, I guess,
upset, mad at his son and the kids, and said give me this
back and never tell anybody. And she said she was afraid of the guy
because she was the only a kid, but she also respected him. She
respected you know, the military and everything, and that she never spoke about
what happened until now because she believes he's passed away and she really did not
want to say anything. In fact, Mary Joyce has been friends with her,
she says, for something like twenty five years, and she told her
about this something like over twenty years ago, but she said, I don't
want to be interviewed about it, And finally now she's decided to be interviewed,
but stay anonymous. So you have to hear her tell the story now,
in the story, she never says, I know that the colonel told
me this is from Roswell, this is from UFO. He never said that.
So this medal could have just been some high tech medal that they were
using in crafts that they were developing, or maybe a metal that they retrieved
from a Russian crash or something like that. So we don't necessarily know that
it is UFO or that it is from Roswell. But that's I think the
assumption that Mary Joyce and her friend are making here. But Mary Joyce says
her friend's very well respected in the community. I talked to her about this.
She says, you know, she's she's she just really believes her about
this. So and if you hear you can see why this woman she's she's
definitely with it. I mean, it's not like those deathbed confessions where the
it's an older person who sounds delusional, and honestly, a lot of these
interviews sound like that, but not this one. She's definitely got her wits
about her and it's it's it's a fun listen, so definitely listen to it.
Just don't read the story, because if I were you and I were
to just read the story, I would be like whatever, but listening to
it is what's really compelling. Yeah. I listened to some of it and
and it was interesting. She talks about putting it in an oven and letting
him sit there for a while and then reaching it and was exactly the same
temperature as it was when she put it in. They also brought it to
a ye a blacksmith, a horseshoe faerrier and had him mess with it,
and yeah, pretty cool. Whatever the metal was. If it wasn't it
was, I guess it was ten years after. So who knows. It's
very It's possible. It is an interesting story. Yeah, I guess it
is possible. I mean, Jesse Marcel Junior story is not too dissimilar where
you know his dad brought it home, you know, so maybe this guy
did bring it home and the kid snuck them away or something, who knows,
I don't know, or maybe the kid went to the office, and
because I guess. She talks about how on Saturdays they were able to go
to the base and run around. They couldn't go every whe they could go
to the store and the pool and stuff like that. They weren't supposed to
just have go anywhere. But so I don't know, but it's it's very
I think it's interesting and it's it's worth a listen. So I wonder if
she ever got her silly putty back after her You know what. It's funny
you should say that, because as we were talking just now, I was
thinking the same thing. She better have got her silly putty back. Yeah,
but uh or maybe yeah, or maybe her dad got her some more.
But yeah, if that kid wanted to keep his girlfriend, he probably
gave it back. Yeah, yep. Yeah. All right, Well that's
all the news I have. Do you have anything more? No, I
am all done on this side. Great. Well, I'm really excited to
I and I hope every the listeners are excited to hear what Paul Deine has
to say. I think this gives me hope because sometimes you when you're working
with the military and getting information, you hit brick walls, and it almost
to me feels like Paul's broken down some of these brick walls. So yeah,
I think people will find this really interesting. Great, have a great
show. Thanks, let's talk to Paul. I am very happy to welcome
to the show. Paul Dean. Hello, Paul, Hi, how's it
going good? How are you? Yeah, I'm good, I'm yeah,
yeah, going very well. It's Saturday morning here, so we're a bit
ahead of you. Yeah. Where is here for you? Okay? Melbourne,
Australia, So down in the south east of the country, below Sydney,
so literally on the other side of the world to you. Yeah.
Literally, So that's cool. So seven a m. On Saturday, and
just for the listeners to know, it's like four pm on Friday here,
so we're pre recording this interview. So that's fun. Yeah, No,
it's going to be very very good. Yeah, Larry, Sorry to get
you up so early on a Saturday, that doesn't matter. No, that's
fine, Okay, great. So you are a busy fella. You are
essentially doing Foroyer requests like crazy here in the US for UFO files, and
it looks like you've gotten a lot of stuff no one else has gotten before.
What started you on this path? What to say? Made you decide,
Hey, I'm gonna figure this out and do this, Okay, So
that's actually a pretty good question. I've been studying the UFO phenomena since I
was thirteen. I'm now thirty seven and and I guess, I guess I
got I got hot. In virtually all books, virtually everything you read is
is semi unsubstantiated or unsubstantiated, or it's it's it's very very difficult to clarify.
You can't see, you often can't see you know, very specific in
detail hailed scholarly background evidence to cases, or you know US Air Force policy
decisions or you know United Kingdom processes for processing I don't know, radar data
whatever. And as the years went on, I just read more and more
more books, and I found that the only thing that really satisfied me that
there was something, something probably really was flying around was actually government documents,
particularly from the United States, not solely by any means, but especially from
the United States. To me personally, if I if I could see a
document that was signed off by say a colonel or a rear admiral or whatever,
that discussed something that that shouldn't be happening at say the buzzing of a
warship by an unknown craft, or you know, a series of very unusual
lights in the sky that's seen to focus in on a base, you know,
a military based whatever that that seems to me held a lot more weight
than just an endless stream of hyperactive stories. So anyway, I found out
the actual first serious book I read about the topic was nine to eighty seven
book called Above Top Secret by Timothy good. Now. It does have problems,
all books do, but at the time the it's a it's a six
hundred page book, and at the time it's just the level of detail that
he and it's not even it's not even considered that powerful now, but the
level of detail he would go into as far as misinformation disinformation, you know,
one to eighty degree turns within classified documents from what was being told to
the public, you know, whistleblowers, et cetera. That got me hooked.
And and then I found out over the years, I found out that,
in fact, as extraordinary as it may seem, that you in the
United S States, Australia, England, to a lesser extent, Germany,
that if you do things the right way, you can actually ask government agencies
for records about anything. And that's what got me hooked. So about three
years ago in Australia, I started studying. You don't to me it was
useless simply FOI you know, freedom of information requesting the Australian Defense Department for
anything on UFOs. I mean, it's so broad. It can mean unidentified
radar contacts on primary radar systems, it can mean correspondence with ministers, it
can mean anything. So I started to learn how things were done here.
So how you know civil aviation bodies what you would call in America the FAA
Federal Aviation Administration, but here in Australia Bureau of Air Safety. I started
learning how they did things. I started learning how they took reports from pilots
about safety issues. I started to investigate how they physically stored data, and
I started sending very very specific FOI requests to Australian agencies, and all of
a sudden, all this stuff started coming out. So I've started the exact
same thing with the United States, and I've had great success in both countries.
You know, the last time things were foid on this scale was in
the late seventies when Robert Todd, Berry Greenwood, Lawrence Fawcett, and Todd
Zekil started pummeling the what you call the Three Letter agencies N SAD, I,
A, c IA, FBI with FOI requests and what came out then
was extraordinary. So I'm attempting with the help. I've got a guy in
England who we work together, but I'm attempting to do exactly the same thing
in the United States, and so far we've managed to do it. So
with Timothy Goods book, because it's a great book. I mean, it's
a classic book. There's a lot of really important information that he has shared
in that book, but like you said, you know, a lot of
it is anecdotal or alleged documents. They don't link back to actual official documents,
although some do. He try. He's at least better than many at
giving his sources. Was there a particular document that in that book that you
said, whoa, you know this is real that you start and retrieved and
that really kind of opened your eyes. Yeah, there was that. Look,
there's a few. There's one that's probably a bit of a surprising thing
that wasn't about a case. That was a policy in the United States during
the forties and fifties and sixties UFOs when reported, particularly from within the military,
within the Army, Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps, they were
supposed to be reported using a channel called Air Force Regulation two hundred DASH two
unidentified flying objects. But there was actually another slightly more classified reporting channel called
service reporting, its communication instructions for vital intelligence sightings. And what happened was
in Timothy Gooods's book he highlights, I remember the exact words he says.
He says, from nineteen fifty four onwards, a series of quote communications for
Vital Intelligence SI sightings were laid out and proligated in Joint Air Force, Army
Navy Protocol one four six, and the results since nineteen sixty nine, the
results, like any records of actual pilot sightings laid down submitted via the service
system, had been classified. So what he's basically saying is is that after
nine like continuing after nineteen sixty nine, with the closure of Project Blue Book,
the America right actually, up until twenty eleven, Americans, the American
military, through the Joint Chiefs of Staff, promligated an entire classified system called
service reporting, as I said, for specifically reporting missiles, planes, and
unidentified flying objects for pilots. And it got me because because not in the
United States, not one single service report by a pilot, or or any
investigations or analysis of that report of a UFO has ever been released like like
you know, service report, the service reporting channel has been around for so
long, but not like like nobody in the United States, norrid or First
Air Force or eleventh Air Force. They're the places where service reports finally go.
No one has ever released any service reports from the United States military.
And I'm thinking to myself, there must be hundreds of them, and I
mean just alone in Canada. Canada's released their service reports up till nineteen ninety
six, and just for the nineties alone, there's like thirty. And Canada's
got a very small air force compared to the United States, and you know,
much less planes, a lot less flying, time, less pilots.
So I did the math, even back in the eighties, I did the
math, and I thought there must be hundreds and hundreds of service reports by
pilots that have never seen the light of day. And this is at a
time as well, when the US Air Force had said, well, Edward
Condon, the head of the Colorado Project and the Secretary of the Air Force,
had said that UFOs are of no interest anymore. There is no place
in the United States except airports in the police to report UFOs. And yet
here in dead Black and White in the Jane app documents. Was the service
instructions for pilots the actual system works. If for pilots flying along and if
he gets dragged off by something I don't know the shape of a gridiron ball
at two thousand miles an hour, he is supposed to say down the radio
system service service service. Then that goes to an encrypted, sc scrambled channel.
He is able to directly talk to the near command and control or air
defense base. He says what he sees, like, what latitude longitude is
at, what altitude is at, what the object looked like, how many
of there were, what color it was, you know, did it nearly
hit his aircraft? And so on. That report is vocally transmitted to Norrad
or used to be ent Air Force Base now it's Peterson Air Force Base,
and there it would stay and they would do some analysis on it, you
know, particularly if it was a flight safety issue or it happened right neither
Russian border or something. Now. Now, like I said, I mean,
that's how a service procedure works. And the public are not told about
this. I mean, I know. In nineteen ninety six, a congressman
called Patty Murray actually r C United States Air Force. Look, what's the
latest on UFOs. What's all this closure of Project Blue Book stuff? And
they came back to her and they said, no, there is no new
reporting channels in the last forty years for UFOs. It's all closed up.
And yet here we have, in black, black and white, we have
service procedures laid out for the American military, particularly pilots. That's the sort
of thing that got me. That's where I started thinking that, you know,
there must be so much more information out there. We've already been released
a heck of a lot, but there must be so much more out there.
And the more I looked into it to realize, I study. I
studied policy documents and procedural documents. I found out that service procedures are not
the only way that the US military can report UFOs to themselves. There are
you know, three or four other systems, and I've got actual examples of
where UFOs have been reported on those other systems. And so it looks like
we've got a gold mine in front of us, held at the National Military
Command Center Noorad Tinder Air Force Base Almendorf. So yeah, so yeah,
you asked me what a powerful document was the service procedures were one of them.
Well, that's really interesting and to clarify, so, of course we
have tons of blue Book report but what you're saying is the service reporting method
is separate from blue Book We not only is it, yeah, not only
is it separate, but Brigadier General Carol H. Blender in nineteen sixty nine
actually wrote, he wrote in a memo called the Blender Air Staff Study or
Blender MIMO. He actually had the nerve to write, you know, UFOs
that affect national security have never been part of the blue Book system, and
current systems replace the blue Book system into the future. And then on another
line he says those systems are service reporting. And then there's another one,
he writes called Air Force Manual fifty five eleven. An Air Force Manual fifty
five eleven is another one, and that's even more serious. That is it's
called it's called Serious Incident or Air Force Serious Incident Reporting, and that two
can be used for UFO reporting. That's right back from the sixties. So
yeah, So what I'm saying is is that is that the US government has
had systems in place. There's actually a third one, and there's probably a
fourth as well. The US government has had systems in place to accept UFO
reports off its military officers. Yeah, so you probably heard this story.
I know that John Greenwald went to look for those service documents and he,
like you said, I was not able to get them from the US,
but he did get them from Canada. And did you had the same experience,
Yeah, kind of, so it's really interesting he actually yeah, okay,
so John Greenwell did look for so anyone, anyone that's one of the
if you want a foy the US government now for anything about UFOs, that
would be one of the first places to go. And that's exactly what John
Greenwell did a few years ago. He I think he foid specifically for any
service reports submitted to you know, the United States Air Force magic coms or
headquarters or NOURRAD that involved unidentified flying objects unusual, you know, drones,
whatever. So he he got told. I think he got told. I
mean we've all been told, others have been told that this that service reports
are of a quote transient unquote nature and are not kept for longer than sometimes
they say six weeks, sometimes they say two years, sometimes they say five
years. So John Greenwell got completely knocked back. He was told that there
was no service report. I think he was told that there was no service
reports currently in the in the you know reporting you know database that had been
kept. Now I find that very hard to believe, because one Canada had
kept all of these for you know, two decades too. I just I
know a lot about how the US military works, and it is absolutely inconceivable
that one hundred million dollar fifteen that nearly gets slammed by a UFO mid air
and the pilot reports it via the service system. I find it inconceivable that
only after six weeks or you know, three months or whatever, that that
service report would be drawn up or deleted from the deleted from the service database.
Just I know how this works, and it is just inconceivable. Maybe
after five years if nothing came of it, like no safety instant, no
you know, no war fighting mission related issue, whatever, maybe then,
but not after six weeks. So I've had the same experience. Me and
my friend in England have also. We have we have FO wid pleters and
Northcombe noorad we Foor the headquarters the United States Air Force and Secretary of the
Air Force and Assistant Secretary of the Air Force for all service reports you know,
in the last ten years, and we got knocked back saying that we
cannot find any responsive records. So what we did something else is that service
reporting actually was canceled in twenty eleven. It was actually removed from Air Force
Instruction ten DASH two O six. So what we did we decided, well,
if we can't get any actual service reports, what we'll do is we
will get documents out of them asking for the rationale or the reasons behind why
they moved this. Removed the service reporting system from the instructions, and we
actually got a few documents out. We couldn't find any reasons why they're like
killed off service reporting. We did find some internal emails that they released to
us, and some of them just simply said, look, it was an
Air Force policy in Plans Directorate in the Pentagon and it simply said, look,
NORAAD does not require service reporting procedures any longer. Another one was a
matrix, which is a list of changes to any existing document and it also
said no service reporting is paragraph six to two whatever is canceled because NORD no
longer requires service reports to be submitted to their command. And we look,
we don't know why it was removed. We don't know why service, we
don't know what they've been replaced by. I think, I think I know,
but we don't know for sure. And we're still we're still appealing that,
Like we're still saying to them, Look, you can't make major policy
decisions like this and then not be a paper trail that's minutes of meetings,
commanders, briefs, discussion papers, opinion statements, internal emails, concurring statements
and so so yeah, so John Greenwell's given it a crack. We've given
it a crack. I Like I said, I find it unbelievable that one
the service that no US pilots have ever reported UFOs vias. So that's what
they tell They've effectively told us by knocking back our requests, they've effectively told
us, no, we have nothing. And then I find it inconceivable that
even if they did have anything, that they only be kept for a few
weeks or months. So yeah, that's the story. So you have not
been able to get any service documents either, No, not actual service reports.
I've got I've got internal policy material, like I said, but I've
got no actual service reports. Now, I might there might be another way
of doing it. Like I said, when a service report gets summitted by
a pilot down the radio system, first it goes through the nearest air traffic
like an air defense space. We might be able to go straight to the
air defense spaces like Tindle, Elmendorf, you know, Peterson, McCord and
so on. But that's very slow. It means you've got a foy,
you know, two dozen bases across the whole United States, and they're probably
all going to come back with different answers. So that's one way of doing
it. You know, it's it's very slow, and yeah, so there
you go. So but there were other channels. So tell me about the
manual. What was that manual fifty four? Yeah, a manual fifty five
eleven. Manual fifty five eleven is was first promulgated or first you know,
created in about nineteen sixty nine, sixty six, I think. And what
it actually states is that is the major events, like any what they call
what they call Air force reportable events can be submitted by let me just say,
I'm just getting it up in front of me. Yeah, so the
system is actually the actual system itself, like the actual screens on the computer
screens is called an Air Force operational reporting system and it's the information about that
how to use it is laid out or it was laid out an old manual
called Manual fifty five eleven Operations Air Force Reporting System. And that we also
think because the General a Brigady General Blenda sett in nineteen sixty nine, that's
service reporting and this manual fifty five eleven was just going to be just fine
for reporting the UFOs in the future. Now Air Force Manual fifty five eleven
was promulgated this two decades after nineteen sixty so we think that, you know,
if we go to their back to the Air Force and say, well,
you're not going to give us service reports, maybe you'll give us any
UFO reports submitted under fifty five eleven Operational Air Force Reporting. So that's that's
quite powerful as well. I don't know what the differences are. I don't
know if they have to give more detail in the report or if it's more
highly classified, like you know, a secret instead of confidential or whatever.
But yeah, so that's one, but there are more a really really big
one that I've just actually done a blog about last night and this is something
that really really will cause waves. There is a third system specifically for bases.
Pilots can't use this. It is called the OPREP three system, which
is Operational Report Category three, which means serious incident slash serious event reporting.
And what I can't believe is so an operational report three is any event or
incident near a base, above a base, or on a base, whether
commanding officer or someone ranked very highly, can report really serious unusual events directly,
in real time immediately to the National Military Command Center, the Alternate National
Military Command Center nor AD, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and the Office
of Secretary of Defense, all at the same time. He can report anything
he wants, riots, shootings, anything miscellaneous. And what's so stunning is
is in the seventies there was a bunch of UFO reports from bases US military
bases where the commanding command post officers had actually reported the UFO events via the
OPREP three system directly to the Pentagon, not through another Air Force base,
not confidential or unclassified. I'm talking secret, directly to the Joint Staff and
the National Military Command Center. We've actually got examples from Luring Air Force Base
and October nineteen seventy five, Worthsmith Air Force Base November nineteen seventy five,
and pine Castle Pinecastle Electronic Test Range in Florida from nineteen seventy eight. And
every single one of these documents they say things like, you know, this
is Pine Castle or this is lawing urgent, urgent, we have an unknown
helicopter slash object above the nuclear weapons facil We don't know what to do.
We need your answer within five minutes. And these OPREP threes have actually been
sent and they've been released to us. They were released in the eighties and
not enough people took notice. Now these OPREP threes are kept for a very
long time and they are submitted to the National Military Command Center, and they
are considered very serious. So yeah, I've highlighted five different documents, and
there's more. I've highlighted five different documents where where major sensitive US military installations
have reported what only can be described at minimum as really weird helicopters and at
most they actually use the term UFO, They actually say oblong UFO or circular
UFO and sent It's sent with op PREP three precedents straight to the highest levels
of command and The great thing is the Oprep three system is still in existence
today. So we think that we think that any bases and we've all heard
the story stories about nuclear missiles or nuclear guidance systems or bombers being knocked out
or tampered with by UFOs, we now know in black and white that base
officers have been submitting of Prep threes about such incidents straight to the Pentagon in
the White House. And you know, like that to me is extremely powerful.
Just as an anecdote, there was a researcher. I'm not the first
person to find this. There was a researcher in the nineties, a UK
researcher called Amen Victorian, and he was hot on the trail of these oprep
threes and he harassed the Office of the Secretary of Defense no end for op
Prep three reports involving UFOs, and he was actually told in a letter.
I haven't got the letter, it's in England, but he was actually told
and I quote op Prep threes containing information regarding unidentified objects over US military installations
are considered extremely sensitive and are thus not releasable. Wow, yeah, no
joke. That is an extraordinary statement. So first we have this going on.
In the seventies, Oprep three is being sent about UFOs to the Pentagon
and the National Military Command Center. Then in nineteen ninety we have in Victorian
being told that objects over bases are considered extremely sensitive. Oprep three systems still
are in existence today. I actually know someone that works at King's Kings Bay
Naval Facility in I think it's George Rook, South Carolina, And I actually
asked him not or six months ago, I said, do you guys still
use oprep threes? And he actually said to me, he said, not
only do we use them, he says, they're one of our main form
of drill practice. He says, if you want to get guys out of
bed, say there's an OPREP three going down. Yeah, that's what he
actually said. So what we are doing now is foying both the Joint Chiefs
of Staff and the Office of the Secretary of Defense for any op Prep threes
in the last you know, say, fifteen years that have involved unknown objects.
And it's an extremely slow process. We know they're going to knock us
back, so we're going to appeal it. And yeah, so there you
go. So with these op Rep three reports that or files that have come
out with the unknown helicopters? Are these just then what you're able to receive
the message to command? But or are you able to actually get any further
report or investigation? Very good question. I like that. What happens with
an OPREP three? First, the op Rep three gets shot off from the
base and then five minutes later it look it's changed over the year. It
used to be fifteen minutes later, I think. But sometime later the commander
who sent the original Rep three, he's got to send what they call an
op REP update, which it tells, you know, National Military Command Center,
what's going on now, what's going on next? What's going on now?
Like it's got to be constant because really serious and so we were in
the seventies. It was actually Robert Todd and Barry Greenwood who got basically cut
along story short for listeners. A bunch of Air Force huge Strategic Air Command
bases across the Northern Tier border with Canada, all in the same week got
overflown by miniature helicopters, massive helicopters, helicopters that weren't helicopters, UFOs,
things that looked like light aircraft that made no noise, bizarre I mean,
bizarre occurrences kind of looked human like but probably couldn't have been. I mean,
one object seemed to go from Alluring Air Force Base to Falconbridge in Canada.
It's something like, you know, in ten minutes, and that means
it was probably going at a thousand, well in your language, six hundred
miles an hour. Now, the Apache helicopter can't even do that, and
it wasn't even invented then, so you know. So, so these ore
Prep throws get sent, and then the National Military Command Center will create its
own records like memorandums of understanding, things like receipts saying yes, Lauring,
we received your message on the telephone right now to you, or things like
they're called DdO talkers deputy of a Deputy director of Operation Internal UFO or sorry,
internal talker. And so we were able to get both the original Op
Prep three s from the bases, plus the updates, plus internal National Military
Command Center memorandums and talkies about those of Prep three. So you'll see these
things. You'll see the National Military Command Center writing out, you know,
Memorandum for Urgent Appraisal Subject UFO Overlawing contents urgently checking with West with Eastern Hemisphere
desk for temperature inversions over Lawing two. Phone conversation with Lawing indicates unusual helicopters
still on base. Three. Another O PREP three update is expected in three
minutes. Four. You know, object has now moved to bottom of the
base as told by Brigadier General Smith. Five like that, So you get
these constant this unbel believable, this, this barrage of internal tallexing and carbon
copies of printouts. The crazy thing is we didn't eat Barry Greenwood and Robert
Todd. They didn't get everything. They were knocked back. I mean they
were consistently. I mean even Norrad was involved in one of these cases.
The operate one Opera three says we've requested air support, like actual tactical air
support from nor Ad. So Noorad actually flew in fighter jets to identify these
visual these potential aircraft and the aircraft actually these weird objects actually nicked off just
as the planes arrived. And so we can see all this in writing.
And what gets me is is that is that our UFO researchers who were doing
this, you know, in the middle of the night trying to get some
answers. They they they were actually knocked back. There was a lot of
documents that they couldn't get out because they were just too highly classified. Now
you know, again another mystery. What this is pretty incredible, I think
because these cases aren't as well known and they sound pretty intense. So you
talked about, you know, this wave that happened kind of in the border
of Canada and this one object. What are some of the other incidents you've
you've kind of found there? Okay, so well from the time I'm actually
pulling out my folder, now, let me just have a look. And
you know a lot of them be found on your website. Oh yeah,
absolutely, If anyone's interested, all I have to do is email me.
I can send you three hundred anyone. I can send hundreds and hundreds of
documents about this, about these matters. Hold on, just give me a
second. I'm just absolutely anyone can find these. They are all over the
internet. All you would have to do is type in go to Google and
type in nineteen seventy five overflights, opera three or situation or you know Canada
US border, and you will find anyone can find hundreds of documents. The
weird part is is that, like I said, for a week, these
these unknown objects and funny looking helicopters and stuff were flying over these bases,
but there was no bar to their operation. I mean, no one got
prosecuted. The FBI will call in there, we've got We've got FBI documents,
Office of Air Force Special Investigation documents, Strategic Air Command documents, nor
RAD documents. No one investigating this could figure out what was going on.
No one was prosecuted, nothing landed, no one tried to refuel and do
it again. No Russians were caught. There was nothing seen, you know
beforehand. It wasn't like it's slowly built up. It just started banging on
the twenty seventh of October nineteen seventy five. But what's really odd is that
the more the researchers dug into this, they started knew that had happened along
the Canadian border. But but for it, just just for a crack.
The researchers in the seventies decided to FOI quite a few other bases around the
United States and right into nineteen seventy six, and the same things were going
on there. What's weird is is is that you know, a Cannon Air
Force base, there was a UFO reported just outside the base, like in
the air that was shaped like a doughnut of silver gold color and flashing lights
on it. And it was actually signed off like the actual message it was
sorry it was it was an internal National Military Command Center memo. It was
actually signed off by a by I think a rear admiral who's very, very
high ranking. I mean, if this stuff wasn't serious, there is no
way that the deputy director of Operations for the NMCC would be even touching this
stuff. There's so you know, I've so these documents are absolutely available.
Yes, yeah, that's pretty incredible. I mean it'd be great too.
So what since you've been doing this work, what have you found that you
feel is new that no one else has discovered? Right, Okay, I
will tell you one thing that is very important. I think I'll try and
cut it short. It's quite complex, but the NORRAD, who is North
American Aerospace Defense Command. They are in charge with the United States and Canada's
air sovereignty. Well, the FAA is too, but the nor AD really
is the key in America and Canada's air sovereignty, airspace management, and aerial
war fighting capability. That's hijackings terrorism from the air, that's interrogating unusual aircraft
that shouldn't be there, watching drug smuggling aircraft, you know, coordinating military
flights within civilian airspace and so on. Now, nor AD when they pick
up something on radar that is not talking on radio, like something just pops
up on primary radar and it's got no associated code with it, like,
it's got no m it's it's got no flight plan established, it's it's immediately
called an unknown track. And nor AD battlespace controllers and air traffic controllers,
they just watch it and they'll say to it. Look, they'll say down
the radio system, they'll say, look, we see you. You're coming
in over I don't know, Plattsburgh, New York, whatever, and they'll
say, can you identify yourself? Can you get on the radio, because
right now you're breaking the law. And if that, if that object just
keeps flying around doing a few circles, whatever, they call, they continue
to call it an unknown track. But then they raise the precedents. They
say, they say, right, we better get a couple of jets turn
their engines on with pilots in case we need to intercept this thing. If
this unknown track, this unknown track that's that's appearing on these unbelievably cutting edge,
high tech screens, if that continues to not you know, land or
you know, talk back or doesn't, if it's if it doesn't call a
may day or whatever, then it gets really it gets. The term gets
upgraded to a nor AD remaining unknown and that's when the jets actually take off
to intercept it. Wow. Now, nor Ad has always said, nor
Ad has always said in writing that we do not study after the event,
like whether the thing lands or it's shot down, or it's you know,
or it's or it vanishes because of it, it's a it's a bad radar
glitch or whatever. That Nourra has always said to us. We do not
study unknown tracks or NORD remaining unknowns. We just don't do it. They
don't say who does do it, but they say we don't do it.
Well. I found a nineteen ninety six nor AD document and in there,
on page ten, it discusses unknown track nor AD Remaining Unknowns, and right
at the bottom it says something really interesting. It says copies of these types
of reports will be sent to the Center for Aerospace Analysis for further study.
Now then it sees in brackets Center for Aerospace Analysis is a nor AD US
Space Command joint center. So first, like I said, NORD says we
do not study unknown tracks other than while they're going on or nor AD remaining
unknowns. But then in this formally classified document it says that you know that
copies of unknown tracks or NORD remaining unknowns will be sent to the nor AD
Center for Aerospace Analysis. So I'm thinking the nor ADS Center for Aerospace Analysis
is where. So like, if we believe in UFOs, and if UFOs
do appear on radar, which we think they do, sometimes we've got this
too many cases in Project blue Book, there is too many whistleblowers, there
is too many cases from the airports. So we've got to assume that UFOs
do appear on radar. Then we've got to assume that Norrad, who has
some of the best radar networks in the whole world, we've got to assume
that UFOs also appear on their radars. And that means that when they appear
on NORRAD radars, they are classified as unknown tracks or nor Ad remaining unknowns,
and it says in that document that they go to the Center for Aerospace
Analysis. So that is where you if we have cases where UFOs have appeared
on radar over North America and have appeared for quite a while, like not
just glitches but solid targets, then we are I'm sure that they are studied
at this Center for Aerospace Analysis. I've got another document from the Government Reform
Committee. It's a question and answered document after September eleven, where the Government
Reform Committee in the House of Representatives actually sent Norrad a bunch of questions about
September eleven, and in there they say, they say, look, with
all these unknown tracks and unknown targets around Washington, d C. They ask
a few questions and then they ask one question. They say, they say,
with you know, with any unknown tracks that you guys pick up,
what happens later on? How do you study them to improve performance? And
Norrad's answer was, again, these unknown objects, the reports, like the
actual radar data is sent to the Center for Aerospace Analysis. And so now
I've got it twice in writing. I've also seen emails between the eighty fourth
Radar Evaluation squadron at the Hill Air Force BACE UTAH and Norrad's a command and
control center at Peterson Air Force BACE, also saying that they study unknown tracks,
so there is no doubt about that. Now the Center for Aerospace Analysis
doesn't exist anymore. I don't know what it's been replaced by. It started,
it was raised in about nineteen eighty eight, and it was actually dissolved
in about in two thousand and six, So I don't know what it's been
replaced by. But I can assure you that that that any weird unknown writer
UFOs are held, like the documents, the data the writer are imaging,
any analysis, whether analysis, etcetera, is held somewhere in Nerrad and that
and that we've got that in black and white. Now that's very very powerful.
Yeah, that's pretty incredible. And I think what's really interesting about this
is that, and you would know better, is that when I do like
a search for the Center for Aerospace Analysis, you find practically nothing. Nothing.
Yeah. I found on a NERRAD site a person who got reference exactly,
who got an award, who works for the Center for Aerospace Analysis.
But that's it. I found. Uh, And this is an interesting group
you've probably heard of it. The Federation of American Scientists exactly, who is
kind of an advocate for open information. You can. They're a great organization
because they're scientists looking for information on defense and everything, and they have something
on it. But that's that's pretty I mean typically even uh even Space Command
has their own website, so that is sort of streams. It means that
this is not a public feacing organization, no way. I actually have had
the nerve because I'm quite cheeky with this. I've actually had the goal to
go to LinkedIn and like what I've done. Yeah, so there's it's not
just Center for Aerospace Analysis anymore. There's another organization within NORRAD called it's called
NORAD JS three free air Space Management or you could write j S three free
C and they also apparently study unknown tracks as well. Now I've had the
cheek to type in every conceivable keyword, and what I do is what I've
found is some of the only yep, some of the only stuff I could
find is actually people's LinkedIn pages. And it might be you know, a
major I'll say major Breece Smith who and you'll see a LinkedIn page and it'll
say currently working at Air Force twenty one, you know, Air Force Space
Command twenty first Operations Wing. Previous history nor AD Command Center, nor AD
J three three operations or Center for Aerospace Analysis. Now I've had the cheek
to go and actually get these people on Facebook, so they that, you
know, so no one's talking yet. I mean they find it a bit
odd, but I mean I'll do anything, like I'll do anything to to
sort this out, you know. So yeah, so are they located?
Then it looks like they were part of Space Command, So Space Command and
doesn't exist anymore. It got absorbed into the US Strategic Command in nineteen in
two thousand and two, So in the eighties and nineties, the Center for
Aerospace Analysis was a joint nor AD, a US Space Command center. Body.
Then when when US Space Command was absorbed into Stratcom, the Center for
Aerospace Analysis became under nor AD and north Comb which is Northern Command which controls
the military for North America. So basically, first it was a joint NOD
Space comm Center, then it was a joint nor AD a north Comb center.
And so look, it is very hard to find stuff. It is.
It isn't a new organization like I said, I've been told reliably I
think that that's Center for Aerospace Analysis vanished in two thousand and six, and
I don't know what it got replaced by. I will find out somehow,
but you know, so look, it is really important because if it looked
nor at our exempt from the Freedom of Information Act, they do have to
follow it by spirit, i e. They do have to respond to you.
They do have to search for records. They don't have to release anything.
They barely even have to tell you if they found anything. They don't
even have to tell you why they won't release it. But they will do
some work, and you know, in time, I will, you know,
maybe in the next month or so, I will definitely foy North comb
slash nor AD and ask for any mission records, you know, even any
analysis done on unknown tracks done at the old Center for Aerospace Analysis. Whether
they've kept the files, I would say they probably have. But you know,
it's just a constant process. I mean it's very very, very slow.
Now there still is at least a group calling themselves Air Force Base Command.
Is that separate then? Yeah? So US Space Command was an organization
from nineteen eighty to two thousand and two that was actually comprised of elements or
sections of the United States Air Force Space Command, the United States Navy Space
Command, and the United States Army Space Command. So US Space Command from
eighty two two thousand and two was basically a huge body, but really what
they were was a collection of three entities Army, Air Force, and Navy
Space Command. So Air Force Space Command specifically for the Air Force. They
still exist and it's one of the biggest major commands within the United States Air
Force. Air Force Space Command, I think that will. They're headquartered at
Pederson Air Force Space They control satellite launching, you know, satellites, a
design, satellite upgrades, you know, the interface between space and aerospace,
computer systems for space management, space warfare policy, et cetera. So,
yeah, but US Space Command has vanished and it's it's it was absorbed into
Strategic Command, which is based off at Air Force Bace Nebraska out of Nebraska.
Yeap, so if you so. Yeah, So US Space Command,
which like I said, was a combination of the three component commands air Force,
Army, Navy and and but they got absorbed into Stratcom which is based
in Nebraska, and and you know, so a lot of what the old
U S Space Command used to do is currently done by US Strategic Command.
So yeah, it's an interesting piece of history. So somewhere in Strategic Command,
it seems likely would be where these reports are going, these unknown tracks.
Yeah, possibly, Yeah, well I still will like I I think
that in the atmosphere, certainly in what we call air breathing and the in
aerospace, I think it's still within I think unknown track reports and nor AD
remaining unknowns are still held at Norrad. Now for space, I'm not saying
strat Com would know about it, but for space out of space, that's
all done at Strategic Command. It's actually done at a place called the Joint
Functional Components Center for Space, which is based at Vanderberg Air Force Space and
the actual building is called the Joint of Space Operations Center. So that's another
story altogether. When they pick up something unusual in space, it's called something
completely different, it's called an uncorrelated target, and it's picked up by one
of thirty senses around the world, and then it's tracked to make sure it's
not the first thing you want to do, is anything in space that shouldn't
be there or that you've never seen before. The Strategic Command want to be
absolutely sure that it's not an incoming missile that threatens the sovereignty or safety of
the United States or Canada. That's the first thing they do. And then
they see if it's in orbit, or if it's going to crash into Earth,
or it's space debris or whatever. But yes, so there's no doubt
about it. There is a vast amount of highly technical stuff related to the
UFO matter, or sort of semi related to the UFO matter, that is
held at NOORAD and Stratcom and in archives. That's the other thing I say.
I often have to pinch myself and say, you know, like I'm
asking NOORAD or strat Com or even just generally the United States Air Force for
records. And the thing is a lot of them have long gone, you
know, you know, they're packed up and they're putting they're put in in
these basketball basketball stadium like warehouses. They're not It's funny. They're too old.
So many records from the eighties and nineties. They're too old to be
kept on Air Force or nor AD bases, but they're too new to go
to the National Archives. So they're kept in this limbo period. I know
that there's a huge facility in Saint Louis that keeps very sensitive records and we
can't you know, even under the FOI Act, they just won't search because
it's too big a job, you know. So it is frustrating. But
yeah, and then these records often get quote unquote whilst yeah, yeah,
yeah, the old lost, destroyed lost or like segregated or misfiled or yet
now some of them. Look, I do know that a lot of records
are destroyed. There is absolutely no way that they can keep everything. I've
seen the National Reconnaissance Office documents, scheduling and a lot of records are legitimately
destroyed after one year or five years. A contractual records, you know,
building maintenance records, you know, occupational health and safety records, personnel records,
even things like applications for annually or vacation you call it, or you
know, base security measures, and they're all just I mean, I don't
it's very hard to see what is kept long term, I mean for fifty
years, and what's kept medium term, like for say nine years, and
what's kept short term, you know, a year. It's it's you know,
and but yeah, I know situation for instance, like with the NSA
and the DIA recently saying that they've lost the origin all those you know,
redacted documents that we got out in the seventies and eighties, they've now suddenly
lost the originals. It is possible that they really actually have and or they're
just not looking hard enough, because you know, the amount of paperwork that
these organizations kept in the seventies and eighties is so vast that, you know,
I read once that at the National Security Agency that some of the printers,
like some of the stationary equipment were actually printing out six ply papers.
So a message would come through from another building, and you know, a
message could be something so simple like we've run out of coke and the vending
machine, and it would be literally printed out on six bits of paper.
One would go to the guy that's supposed to receive it, one would go
in the bin, one would go to archives, one would go to the
first guy's boss, the other one would go to a temporary archives for safety
and statistical purposes and so on. I mean, they just can't keep it,
you know, so that at the same time, you know, I
find it very strange that some records are supposedly missing or lost. I'll have
say, incidences where you have to be very suspicious. Yeah, M So
I knew this conversation would be like this, and that's why I was one
excited for the conversation, but two I knew that. I mean, because
you often will barrage me with information and it looks interesting and I'm always like,
I need to tackle this, but I don't know even where to start.
But that's what's great about this conversation is I'm starting to get now an
idea of where to start. And what I like, I'm so happy that
we're talking is that now the listeners can also, you know, get an
idea of this structure out there. And what's great about what you're doing is
this is kind of that you're following the thread, which is what's really important
to find out what's really going on out there, because when we are asking
people officials about what's going on, we need to be knowledgeable and we need
to do that, follow the thread as to where what is happening and when
Yeah, yeah, it's yeah, it is really important. Someone told me
something once that is it was key. They said to me with any given
agency. Find out when the security was at its weakest. It could be
the nineteen it could be nineteen fifty nine, could be nineteen seventy three,
whatever. Find Out when security was at its weakest, when they were releasing
documents or making a lot of public statements or like press releases. Find out
when the organization was at its weakest, and then follow the thread for you
know, to twenty sixteen. So classic example, Project Bluebook was run under
BO. It was run for a while under the United States Air Force Research
and Development and then United States Air Defense Command. It was physically ran at
the Air Technical Intelligence Center, which later became the Foreign Technology Division at Right
Patterson Air Force BACE, and in the early sixties was probably when the security
was at its weakest they were releasing documents. They eventually all the blue Book
files eventually went to Maxwell and someone told me, you know, Air Technical
Intelligence Center turned into the Foreign Technology Division. Well, what happened after that?
Foreign Technology Division turned into the National Air Intelligence Center in the seventies,
and then the National Air Intelligence Center changed its name to the National Aeronaudic and
Space Intelligence Center NASSIK in about nineteen ninety five, and this person, this
researcher, he's awesome, he's very private. But he told me, he
said, he said, old habits die hard if you find that, you
know, if we know that the Air Technical Intelligence Center and then the Foreign
Technology Division would definitely doing UFOs in the fifties and sixties, old habits die
hard. Were they still doing them in the seventies, then the eighties,
then the nineties, then two thousands and now, And sure enough, if
you look at the linearage, nothing much has changed the old Foreign Technology Division
and Air Technical Intelligence and it's now called NASIK, but it does exactly the
same as what it did sixty years ago. It studies foreign objects, It
studies plane engines, It studies unusual weather patterns that affect you know, combat
jets. It studies missile propulsion, and it studies you know, unusual you
know, unusual flight pars taken by I don't know, Chinese jets. It
studies all sorts of stuff. So yet another place to look for UFO records
or UFO apprais, all discussions, meetings, whistleblowers, whatever would be nassick.
Right back, It's where it all started, right Patterson Air Force Base,
where it all started in nineteen forty seven, So it sounds so easy.
Sometimes people say, Paul, you make it sound so easy. It
can't be this easy, and it's not, of course it's not. It's
just it's all hypothesis at the start. But these hypothesis hypotheses have led me
to interesting developments that now I will tell you one thing. This will this
will make you laugh. I have to ask, though, did you recently
put on Open Minds TV a blog about the FAA and that one page they
have about calling National UFO Reporting Center? Was that you? Yes, Yeah,
so they release Yeah, they release what they release everyone else. They
release that that that it's a they release that Air Operations manual that says,
you know, pilots who ce UFOs unless it's like unless they nearly crash,
you know, but if it's pilot sees the UFO, just call this number.
Blah blah blah. Well, I've got some good news for you.
We've got a whole lot more out of the f and I'm going to publish
it as absolutely as soon as I can. I'll leave you on a hook
with that. But we pushed really hard, hard, and they released a
whole lot of stuff and it's really interesting. I'll give you a clue.
There is a form that FAA air traffic controllers at certain sites, not all
sites, but at certain types of FAA sites, there is a form that
an air traffic urgently and it is a UFO pro former. It is a
form that says, you know, what station they were at, what time
the UFO unknown unknown aircraft, what time it appeared on radar, what time
it disappeared on radar, what direction it was going. Was it inbound to
the United States, was it outbound? You know what e radar frequency was
involved, that sort of stuff. So that and a whole lot more they've
released. Yeah, they've released a whole lot of stuff. And it took
us three years, but we forced them. Yeah, we forced them.
Well that's awesome. So I'm really excited to hear more about that, and
we'll definitely write something up and we'll talk to you more about that. But
this is cool because now we have because to me, I guess maybe because
I've done this and I understand, uh, just what you've described sounds not
like making it easy, but making I mean, I understand the large amount
of work because you have to make so many requests in so many different ways
to get documents, to find these little scraps and crumbs, and and it
literally bread clumbs that leads you to the next steps. So I can appreciate
the huge amount of work, uh that what you're talking about has taken.
Uh, and it's awesome that you're doing it. This is so extremely exciting.
Yeah, yeah, look at it. It is quite exciting. I
mean is there's a lot of obviously misses. I mean, at any one
time, like I said, I've got a friend in England called David Carmoichael
who does it as well, and at any one's time between the surls,
we've got fifty FOI requests out or thirty or whatever. I saw one funny
thing once north Comb Noorad released a log like a data b like a table
of FOI requests for two thousand and six, two thousand and fifteen, they
released this this log and it's got columns like date when an FOI request was
sent to north Comb Noorad, and then like the person who's like the surname
of the person who's sent it in, and then you know if it was
knocked back or if it's still pending whatever, and when you go down the
second column. The only thing that's in there is our names that goes Carmichael,
Carmichael, Carmichael, Dean, Dean, Carmichael, Dean like this.
And it's really quite embarrassing because I'm thinking, I'm just you know, in
one sense, they must be so frustrated. But you know, in another
sense, you know, I think that that, I mean, this is
your I mean, the other thing that gets me is I'm able I'm doing
all this from Australia and he's my friend's doing it all from England, and
and I am a bit you know, they they must be a bit baffled
about the effort we put into but it does not done because I mean,
in the end, if nothing else, like forgetting potential extraterrestrials or whatever,
the fact is the matter. This relates to your air safety, like you
know it does. Actually, it relates to the national defense systems. You
know, it relates heavily to flight safety, fair paying passengers. You know,
you know probably you know Dick Haynes, Richard Haynes runs an arcup.
I mean, he would tell you black and blue that there has been so
many near misses between objects that have never been found that have shot off into
space or what or you know, like that have behaved weirdly, and you
know, it is a serious issue. The other thing is is that you
guys are paying for this, Like if there is a cover up, well
multiple little cover ups around the place, right Like, it's not coming out
of their pockets. It's it's it's something that you know, push comes to
shove where it's twenty sixteen. This this, these vast records have been around,
particularly these really classified records have been around since the seventies. Well,
you guys are paying for it, and you know, and it shouldn't be
like this forever, you know. I mean if I had someone had a
seat in nineteen ninety that this this this cape of this cat and mouse game
will still be going on in twenty sixteen. I think the likes of Timothy
Good and you know, a young Richard Dolan or whatever would have said,
oh, baloney, it'll be all out by then. Well it's not.
And you guys are forking. You guys are coughing up the bill for it.
And so that's another thing is that, And I think it would let
a lot of people off the hook. I mean, there must be a
lot of colonels and admirals and majors out there who are actually a little bit
embarrassed about all this and at a little bit awkward going home every night knowing
that sometimes they're, you know, one hundred and fifty million dollar combat jets
are completely outrun by something that looks like the shape of I don't know,
a computer mouse. You know, it's it's. It must be quite difficult
for some of these people to keep this from their families and so on.
You know. So yeah, I mean I know that a lot of them
are public servants. But you know, when the APA responds to Joan Greenwalden
says, the only UFO document they have is that one piece of a manual.
That's that's disingenuous, it's dishonest. It's it's and you know, I
think it can't be interpreted as as a lie. And just like you have
demonstrated here, you know when the Air Force or they say they're not looking
at UFOs, and it's not true. They are looking at unknown targets,
unknown tracks. Uh, but they're not sharing that information or sharing what you've
discovered these these channels. Uh, that these reports are getting funneled to and
and I would and I guess my last question I was gonna, uh save
this but because we're running over but would be I mean, all of the
name changes of these departments, Uh, why is that happening? It almost
seems like that also can help serve to keep uh this information out of the
public eye. End that. Yeah, it is a really I think a
lot of it's not Look, a lot of it's budgetary, a lot of
it's physical, a lot of it's a malgamiting. You might get two squadrons
like I don't know, the eleventh nineteenth Night Fighting Squadron and the eleventh nineteenth
ninth Fighting Support Squadron, which are really the same thing. They you know,
they emerge them to make something like the eleventh nineteenth Composite Squadron or something
like that. A lot of it, a lot of it is to save
money into streamline. But yeah, look, there is definitely this frustration where
you do wonder, I mean you do wonder if the constant name changes,
the base changes. Like you know, there's one really suspicious squadron that used
to be at Hill Air Force Base called eighty fourth Radar Evaluation Squadron. We've
just found out it's up and left now to lack to Langley Air Force Base
in I think Virginia wherever it is near CIA headquarters. Now, you know,
you just think you're onto something. You've got a full address that you
can write to on a phone number, and all of a sudden you find
out that they've done a runner on you. So that, yeah, it
is very very difficult. They can light to you. I mean when you
say, they can light you in the brick blink of an eye and say
no, that organization does not exist, when really what they mean is,
well, the organization technically doesn't exist, but it just changed its name,
you know, like yeah, or it became you know, or it changed
its code, or it moved address or something like that. That's that's frustrating.
That's where it's got to be on your toes. It is very boring.
People people say that, like I talk like this, and people say
to me, how can you be bothered? This is just remembering all these
acronyms and these addresses and all these database names and these you know, names
of frigdier generals and major generals and stuff, and it is actually very bored.
It is very very very you know, it's a real head. It's
very, very very dense, and and sometimes I don't even enjoy it.
I will tell I know where over time. But I will tell you one
other thing. We've also found. So if as you've heard of cases where
possibly combat jets or aerial refuels or whatever have have crashed, like where you've
got an aircraft crash where potentially UFOs have been involved, so mantel the mantelent
is one. I think it was probably a skyhook balloon, but it might
not have been. The Walesville crash in New York definitely related to a UFO
of some sort. We've actually found where those files are kept. How's that
So, if there's any UFOs that have slammed into planes, they are currently
they were kept at the Norton Air Force Base Air Safety Inspection Center. That's
as I was saying before, that's actually moved to Kirkland Air Force Base and
is now called the Air Safety Agency. I think so their files date back
to nineteen fifty two. And in those files there is a certain section of
the file called the border of proceedings, and in the border proceedings is described
circumstances around the actual aircraft mishapp or crash or loss or whatever, and that's
apparently we've got it on. Good word is there are some cases that definitely
involve UFOs. So you've got American military aircraft that are potentially being lost or
have been lost in the past, and these were are certainly not released.
I can assure you of that, even to Congress, even to the Armed
Services Committee. So yeah, another interesting lead. Wow, Well, thank
you so much for coming on and sharing all of this. Of course,
we'll definitely be in contact, and I'm sure the listeners just like me,
are feeling like they want to hear and talk about more. But I mean,
an hour flew by, and we're able to scratch your surface. But
you know what you've done here because I've always been fascinated and always I felt
that, you know, curious about Space Command's role, nor Rad's role,
and where that information goes from Norrad uh and and a lot of people who
who follow those leads kind of feel like we've followed it as far as we
can. But that's what's great about what you're doing. You're following it further.
Yeah, so that's really exciting because that kind of opens up layers of
the onion, the more avenues to pursue. Yeah. Yeah, look,
we are very very determined. I am, I am very aggressive about this.
I actually got an email from Strategic Command the other day and at the
final words were it was over a particular matter. It was over where certain
records were kept, certain records from the one Command and Control squadron were kept,
and he actually I've just been harassing and saying, you know, but
anyway, the final email said, mister Dean, I will not discuss these
records any further. Like so then you start another I mean, the other
day, I've got an email from NORAD saying will you call us? That's
really weird. Like I sent an email to NORAD. It was a public
relations inquiry. I asked a bunch of very specific questions. The email me
back immediately saying saying, I think it's best if you call us. Asked
to speak to mister whoever on this number, and that's the person you need
to speak to. They won't even sometimes they frightened to put stuff in writing.
They are they are sick of it. But but yeah, yeah,
yeah, so it does happen. It's it is unusual. It does happen.
But what's interesting, Like I say, I mean, I wouldn't be
I wouldn't spend another moment on this if I thought there was nothing to it.
And like I say, it's it's it's your you guys are paying for
it, and it is your airspace. And one of these days when a
UFO does slam into a Pactsivia airliner over you know, a huge urban area,
then then there's going to have to be some really serious questions to be
answered. M m. Yeah. Well, and the US is tasked with
the defense of some all of our allies, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, taking a lead to it is the interest also of everyone in the
world, particularly Canada and particularly in the Middle East around all the Air Operations
Center in Iraq, Afghanistan, NATO allies, the Mediterranean Fleet of the Navy,
the Atlantic Fleet of US Navy. Yeah, I mean it is.
It is a serious issue. I mean yeah, So there you go.
All right, Well, thank you so much for getting up in the morning
and talking to us. And of course people can go see a lot of
material and your top story, like you said, you just released us yesterday
about op Rep three is on the front page of your site. And that's
UFO's Documenting the Evidence. You can google that and find it. Otherwise it's
UFOs dash Documenting Dash the Evidence or the dash Evidence you know, dot bugspot,
dot com dot au. But we'll also of course put a link in
the the show notes. So thank you so much. That's all right,
okay, thanks to you. Celendro. Is that how I saw your name?
I can't say it. You said it pretty well just now, Eleandro,
my axcent is quot strong. Yeah, that's no problem. It's fun
to hear the different ways that people say it. Be gets to be completely
honest, and people who speak Spanish will tell you this. I don't even
say my name correctly as at least as far as from the Spanish, so
so no problem. Okay, thanks hey, sele Andre, thank you so
much for Paul being on the show. That was a really I found his
interview fascinating And if you want to find out more about this, you can
go to that UFOs Documenting the Evidence blog Paul Dean and he's got some information
up there too. Also watch our website because we are planning on working together
and getting more of his stuff up there, and as soon as I can,
I'll write some more about this op Rep. Three. What's great about
Paul two is when I talked to him, even these documents I haven't seen,
He'll be quick to tell me I'm not the first to find this document
these people did or those people did, which is really cool because, like
we talked about, even when I felt, you know, it's the first
one to receive some documents, I did some more research and found out that
others had found them also in the past, just not promoted them, or
just you know, had different things they were looking for, because sometimes we
all run across this stuff when we're looking for something else. So I think
this is great. Like I said at the beginning of the show, sometimes
you feel like you are up against a brick wall as to who's doing what.
And that's what I want to know. You know, we can claim
that, oh, you know, the government's doing this or that, but
we really need to dig to figure out more. And I just am confident
that that we can. I think it's John Alexander puts it a good way.
He says, you know, for a lot of UFO researchers, you
can't have it both ways. You can't assume the military is a bunch of
idiots and they can't figure out this or that, or they can't figure out
what to do with this phenomena. But at the same time, say that
these same people you think are are idiots are so vastly more intelligent than anyone
else that they're able to hide this all up so no one else can see
it. There's there's got to be an in between, and as time goes
on, we ought to get like what Paul's getting as these breadcrumbs to follow
what's going on where? And that's what's interesting. Where are the files going?
I mean Martin and I and and you know when we have people on
these shows, we're talking about this so often, is where are these reports
going? And I think Paul Deane's onto something to figure out where they're going,
And he says he's also onto where pictures and videos might be going.
And you figure that out and then you're able to foil these and get some
more information. So really fascinating stuff. You know, this is the real
research. I've been told by someone who is out there purporting that you know,
aliens are here and everybody knows it. And I ask him, how
do you know this? And in how are you going to prove to you
know, Paul that this is a case, and he says, he tells
them, just google, Google it and you'll find it. Well, google
it and you're gonna find a lot of crap out there. You're going to
find a lot of junk, and so it's hard to decipher what's not junk
from what is legit stuff. And that's what we're trying to do here on
the show every week and with the rest of our stuff. So so thank
you so much for joining us again. Again, I apologize for the day
or for the show coming out a day later, and thank you so much
to the people who donate and help with the show. So, for instance,
thank you to Martin Willis and his show podcast UFO. Thank you to
Caleb Hanks for doing the music at the beginning and the end of the show.
Caleb's music is really cool. If you go to Openminds dot tv and
to the radio page, you'll find a link to more of his stuff.
You're also going to find a bunch of new ads all over our website site
for the UFO Video portal. The portal, we've really beefed up. We're
adding videos every day and now there are tons and tons of videos up there
for people to watch, so, you know, for it's like the Netflix
of UFOs. For one low fee, you're gonna get to watch all of
this incredible stuff, including all of the lectures from the twenty sixteen conference.
The other speaking of the UFO Congress. The other ads you're going to see
out there are ads for the UFO Congress. We are beginning to take registration.
You know, I haven't been really pushing that big time because I'm still
working on getting the speakers. But I will have names out soon, and
I gave you a name last week actually, haha, just for you radio
listeners, you got a little sneak peek into our speakers for the UFO Congress
this year, or at least one. But I'm very excited about that speaker,
and I'm very excited about the other speakers that we're going to have,
and I think you will be too, So stay tuned for that. Go
check out openminds dot tv for the latest. There you'll find a links to
the UFO Congress. And as you know, as many people know, more
and more people are registering early because they just have faith that we are going
to have good speakers. And thank you for that, and and that's why
we work so hard to make sure that you all are not disappointed, and
I don't believe you will be. So this is going to be a great
year, another great year. Really really excited about that. I'm always excited
about stuff, aren't I. But there's a lot of exciting things going on.
You know, some people talk about how this field is dead or there
isn't anything going on, but you know, Martin and I never have a
lack of things to talk about at the beginning of the show when we're just
reviewing the week, and of course myself and my guests never have a lack
of things to talk about, so there's always stuff going on and interesting things,
so it it's not dead by any means. So thank you all for
keeping things alive and returning each week to listen to the show. Be sure
to check out our YouTube channel for our u a full report so you can
see some of these pictures and videos that Martin and I refer to, and
of course you can see all of it on Openminds dot TV. Thank you
all so much for listening. We'll talk to you again next week. Audios,
move chuchos, your motionless sound the glasses of hurry