1 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:13,960 Hello, everyone, Welcome to the latest episode of Hardwood Knocks. This is 2 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:18,559 Adam Framwell, back from my time in the Health and Safety Protocols and joining 3 00:00:18,559 --> 00:00:24,120 my always fantastic host, Danta Valley. I'm excited to be back talking with 4 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:27,839 you, Dan about some hoops, and I'm even more excited because I always 5 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:31,320 enjoy the mail bag episodes so much and that's what we have in store for 6 00:00:31,359 --> 00:00:35,679 everyone this time around. How are you doing. I am spectacular glad to 7 00:00:35,719 --> 00:00:39,520 hear that you're feeling better. I hope you're full on stamina returns soon. 8 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,159 It's exciting to hear your voice. I feel like I'm finally playing video games 9 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,840 online though, because you have the headset, and I feel down right now 10 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:52,079 as if we are playing a video game together, which is fitting the effect 11 00:00:52,079 --> 00:00:54,880 that we're going for. Well, we have a Discord channel, which is 12 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,600 popular among gamers, and so it's almost like Adam knew that we needed to 13 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:02,200 plug the Discord channels we wearing his headset. You should join the hard Knocks 14 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:06,359 Discord channel. The link is in the podcast bio and we're already having lots 15 00:01:06,359 --> 00:01:08,799 of fun in there, and for the time being, you get priority when 16 00:01:08,799 --> 00:01:12,200 it comes having your mailbag questions answered. If that's not a bonus, what 17 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:17,400 the hell is? Yeah? No, I am using the gaming headset right 18 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:23,879 now. It is most commonly used for my digital version of Bloomhaven Sessions on 19 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:26,280 Steam. If you haven't tried that out, you should. It's awesome. 20 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:30,519 I've played the real board game version and the even probably even nerdier online version. 21 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:36,560 But my headphones that I typically use with the microphone broke, So this 22 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:40,159 is the best I've gotten until I'm able to make a run to a store 23 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:46,680 and get some actual headphones for the microphone. Well, hopefully that is the 24 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,719 biggest inconvenience that you've had lately. And it's not because you had COVID. 25 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:53,200 It's yeah, it's not. You're just going through it at the moment. 26 00:01:53,519 --> 00:01:57,959 Is everything. Everything is great, Everything is great, as you said, 27 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:02,719 just dealing with the host COVID fatigue, it's uh, it's not fun to 28 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:07,200 be winded like going up and down the stairs. But all things considered, 29 00:02:07,239 --> 00:02:10,879 I'm pretty lucky and grateful to be vaccinated and healthy now. I was vaccinated 30 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:15,680 before, to be clear, but the healthy part is recent. You're super 31 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:20,439 new now vax boost boosted and had not at all you're free at all. 32 00:02:20,599 --> 00:02:23,560 Like everyone's mailbox again. I know that was a hobby of yours back good 33 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:29,439 day only leave no one go start looking mail boxes. Let's let's belly flop 34 00:02:29,439 --> 00:02:32,199 into this mailbag before we do jump into the discord. We had two questions 35 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:38,599 that we're attacking. I'm attacking I'm just gonna infer tone the NBA math account 36 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:42,319 because you didn't you skipped over the Wolves in Team TPA last week, And 37 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:46,560 so Benny and Ben asked, why did you skip the wost team in TPA 38 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:53,599 last week? Yeah, because my my COVID riddled self was attempting to put 39 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:57,319 all of those team updates out one morning and I have to use a separate 40 00:02:57,319 --> 00:03:00,800 computer for it, so that we have Tableau AX and I could take all 41 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,360 the pictures and everything. So I'd scheduled them all out, and then realized 42 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:08,439 after like seven people commented on it, that I had scheduled the Timberwolves TPA 43 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:14,800 tweet without a picture, which obviously isn't particularly valuable. So I deleted that 44 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:17,080 and was not able to do it again because I would have had to get 45 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,759 the other computer, and I was in the middle of work, and I 46 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:23,439 just forgot to get back to it, and we get so many responses on 47 00:03:23,479 --> 00:03:27,240 those days to the various tweets that I did not see those. So I 48 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,080 apologized to Ben and Benny and it won't happen again. But the real answer 49 00:03:30,159 --> 00:03:34,319 is just that I have a personal vendetta against the Timberwolves, much like I 50 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,080 do every other team. Yeah, that's all was going to say. We 51 00:03:37,759 --> 00:03:40,879 are we conspire against every single team in the league. We hate them. 52 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:44,960 We hate your team too much, We love everyone else's team too much. 53 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:49,840 That's how. That's how. It's the best takes. The best takes are 54 00:03:49,879 --> 00:03:53,719 always the ones where you get accused of being a hater and a super fan 55 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:58,639 because you know that you found the right balance, right. It's the same 56 00:03:58,639 --> 00:04:02,039 thing with fake trades and both and basis maintain that they're giving up too much. 57 00:04:02,439 --> 00:04:05,719 It's it's a really good trade idea. That's my gauge. First up, 58 00:04:06,439 --> 00:04:12,240 let's get into some deeper mail bad questions on Discord t bloom one seven 59 00:04:12,319 --> 00:04:15,800 asked which would you bet on Andrew Wiggins is the last All Star starter off 60 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:21,040 the draft board or any other result. I mean, as I responded on 61 00:04:21,079 --> 00:04:25,560 the Discord channel, So again, like you should get on the Discord channel's 62 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,240 answering mail bad questions. Just think about that. You can peer into the 63 00:04:29,959 --> 00:04:33,360 if you join Discord. Yeah, I essentially answered this one with my response 64 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:38,759 question, which is that I think it's a better question to ask if the 65 00:04:38,879 --> 00:04:43,560 league got rid of the requirement that starters be drafted before reserves, would Andrew 66 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:49,920 Wiggins be drafted before anyone else. So the one scenario in which I could 67 00:04:49,959 --> 00:04:56,680 see him not being the last starter or last whatever off the board is Steph 68 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:00,920 Curry's team just trying to appease Steph Curry, who wants Andrew Wiggins on it. 69 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,480 And so it's not a matter of Steph being a captain, which Steph 70 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:05,720 is not a captain, right is who? And if he tried to shoot 71 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:11,079 his shot, he'd probably miss right now anyway, man, Now you're attacking 72 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:15,680 first, you're dumping all over there. Now you're attacking Steph Curry. But 73 00:05:15,759 --> 00:05:18,600 yeah, that is the that is the only thing that that's the only scenario 74 00:05:18,639 --> 00:05:21,519 in which it's like, oh, you you picked Steph Curry and like Steph 75 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:27,439 Curry campaigned behind the scenes for Andrew Wiggins, or you're trying to you know, 76 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,920 like a you're trying to prove you're a real hooper and that Andrew Wiggins 77 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,439 is actually much better than people presume, and so you're going to draft him 78 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,839 on your team. But if he is anything other than the last All Star 79 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:44,399 starter selected, No, that that drafted not unfold based on talent or fit 80 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:50,240 or any coherent logic. And like the Wiggins discourse has been so reductive on 81 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:55,800 Twitter, just as is the case with just about everything, where like it 82 00:05:55,839 --> 00:06:00,360 doesn't need to be so extreme, Like Wiggins is probably not the worst All 83 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:04,439 Star starter selection of all time. There have been guys like Yao Ming or 84 00:06:04,439 --> 00:06:11,519 Alan Iverson who are voted in purely as legacy selections. Yaoming was selected as 85 00:06:11,639 --> 00:06:15,160 an All Star starter during a season in which he played five games. No, 86 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,199 Antonio Davis was an All Star starter one year, And ultimately people don't 87 00:06:18,199 --> 00:06:21,519 really remember who was a starter and who was a reserve so much as who 88 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,959 was an All Star. Does Andrew Wiggins deserve to be an All Star starter? 89 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,399 No? Probably not. Maybe it wouldn't have happened without the K Pop 90 00:06:29,439 --> 00:06:33,160 influence or whatever that he'll happen with the Golden State Warriors stuff. Probably not. 91 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:39,720 But like the idea of Andrew Wiggins being an All Star this year is 92 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:44,519 not entirely unfathomable. Should he be probably not. Is he on the cusp 93 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:46,839 of it? I think you can make a case, like in the in 94 00:06:46,879 --> 00:06:49,160 the RPR MVP predictor we use at NBA math, he's checking in around like 95 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:53,160 thirty two in the league right now, so you know, the All Stars 96 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:57,399 are the twenty four best players. He's he's on the cusp of getting to 97 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,560 that level, and it is ultimately a cool reward for a guy who has 98 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:06,439 completely reinvented himself as a player who can maximize his talents within a role player's 99 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:12,199 role. He has played phenomenal defense for the Warriors. He started to take 100 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,319 the right shots. He's become a lethal three point marksman. Is he a 101 00:07:15,319 --> 00:07:18,560 featured player? Not really? Is he an offensive initiator? Not really? 102 00:07:18,639 --> 00:07:21,639 Is he a star? Not really? But he's been damn good in his 103 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:26,279 role and it's cool to see him get the recognition for that growth. So 104 00:07:26,319 --> 00:07:32,800 I think you can simultaneously be happy that he is getting that recognition for progressing 105 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:38,879 the right way in his career, for getting vaccinated and having this awesome growth 106 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:43,240 as a player, because clearly those are not just correlated but one is causation 107 00:07:43,319 --> 00:07:46,279 for the other, and you can also recognize that this shouldn't have happened if 108 00:07:46,319 --> 00:07:50,839 we're solely looking at the starter selections. I do push back against the notion 109 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:54,319 that if it wasn't going to be Andrew Wiggins, who else did he beat 110 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:59,040 out? Aside from Draymond Green and there's Karl Anthony Towns, I would have 111 00:07:59,079 --> 00:08:01,519 taken. If we want to go a little bit deeper cut, I would 112 00:08:01,519 --> 00:08:05,279 have taken Aaron Gordon over Andrew Wiggins this year based off the workload that he's 113 00:08:05,279 --> 00:08:09,000 had. A Gary in Denver. I think you could also make DeAndre Ayton 114 00:08:09,199 --> 00:08:11,680 is another big one. So there were front court options in the West. 115 00:08:11,959 --> 00:08:16,199 To me that made a lot more sense than Andrew probably picked Chris stops Porzingis 116 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:18,759 over him. Still, I'm gonna I'm gonna stay hidden that one. We'll 117 00:08:18,759 --> 00:08:22,399 move right along. Then we've reached the Christops. In the course of the 118 00:08:22,399 --> 00:08:28,000 All Star discussion, uh Sweet lou On Discord asked who's most likely a calve 119 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,960 by the deadline, Eric Gordon, Tarras Leavert, Dennis Shrewder or Nune. 120 00:08:33,799 --> 00:08:37,480 I think we're gonna say none, just because the Nune is always the most 121 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:41,200 likely answer. That's unless you're talking about Kendrick Nunn, which which this person 122 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,519 is not well. The reason that I was going to say none is just 123 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,360 because I don't think the Calves are going to make some big swing at the 124 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:50,279 deadline. To do that, you're probably giving up a first round pick, 125 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:56,200 or you're giving up Colin Sexton maybe, which I find hard to believe given 126 00:08:56,279 --> 00:09:01,120 his injured status and his potential import to the long term horror. I just 127 00:09:01,159 --> 00:09:03,840 don't think that if the Cavaliers are making a move, it's going to be 128 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:09,600 of a large enough caliber to involve any of those players. They might take 129 00:09:09,639 --> 00:09:13,559 a swing at adding a backup guard who can fill in some of the minutes 130 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:18,039 that Ricky Rubio vacated with the torn ACL. They might look to get another 131 00:09:18,279 --> 00:09:22,000 defensive presence to spell Jared Allen a little bit down the stretch. I just 132 00:09:22,039 --> 00:09:26,720 don't think that we're going to see anything substantial enough to talk about Eric Gordon 133 00:09:28,159 --> 00:09:33,360 or any player of that caliber. And I would agree with that. My 134 00:09:33,399 --> 00:09:37,039 answer is Dennis Shrewder, though we're not going to allow us to say none, 135 00:09:37,399 --> 00:09:39,159 just because there are things you could do. He fits into the injury 136 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:43,799 exception they got for Ricky Rubio that would vault them into the attack, so 137 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,559 they'd probably make another move. But you could also get Dennis Shrewder by moving 138 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:50,200 it's like two minimum contracts or something that keeps you out of the attacks while 139 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:52,440 also bringing back Shrewder. He seems like the most likely one. My favorite 140 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:56,279 one for them would probably be Carris Lavert. Just looking at I do think 141 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:00,759 he could play with Garland and or Sexton, maybe not at at the same 142 00:10:00,759 --> 00:10:03,000 time, but he's played by and large over the past two months really well. 143 00:10:03,279 --> 00:10:05,639 And give you another guy who can dribble and create, and I would 144 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:09,799 argue he's even better, even better pastor than a Colin Sexton, and so 145 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:13,399 you're getting an upgrade over there, even if you go ahead and bay Sexton 146 00:10:13,759 --> 00:10:16,639 this summer. Eric Gordon's also intriguing because he gives you some defensive juice and 147 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,919 more rim pressure than any of those guys. But it's, like you said, 148 00:10:20,159 --> 00:10:24,159 unless you're attaching stuff to Ricky Rubio, I'm just not The Calves are 149 00:10:24,159 --> 00:10:26,879 really good. This has found money this season, though to me, we 150 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,519 underestimated them. I get it, but they're they're like not quite as far 151 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:33,200 along as the grizzliest to me, and so like if you and it's also 152 00:10:33,279 --> 00:10:37,360 it's found money that doesn't expire. You know, sometimes there are seasons where 153 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:41,320 it's it's such found money, but you can see the expiration date that you're 154 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:46,000 more tempted to make that all in move. I don't think the Cavaliers fall 155 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,919 into that realm because the pieces are young and are going to continue growing. 156 00:10:50,159 --> 00:10:54,440 This is a sustainable found money situation. Yes, I do get the urgency 157 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:58,279 to do something with your assets if you're not high on what Sexton is gonna 158 00:10:58,279 --> 00:11:01,159 look like on his next track. Rubio is expiring, so if you're not 159 00:11:01,159 --> 00:11:03,679 going to keep him, it might behoove you to use that money to try 160 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:07,879 and bring back larger money. I just don't think they're at the point where 161 00:11:07,039 --> 00:11:09,919 the Grizzlies have all these extra first round picks. The Caps do not. 162 00:11:11,039 --> 00:11:15,120 They have their own and basically so if you're moving a first round pick for 163 00:11:15,159 --> 00:11:16,919 any of these guys, I don't know that it's nudging you enough short or 164 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:22,320 long term to spin it. Maybe if it's like super protected and then turns 165 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:26,840 into two seconds immediately, or maybe it only cost you the Rubio salary plus 166 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:30,200 seconds to get Eric Gordon because he owed so much money next year, or 167 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,000 the Caros Lavert price point drop drops. But we've seen the Rockets want a 168 00:11:33,039 --> 00:11:37,399 first for Eric Gordon and the Pacers want two first for Carous Lavert. So 169 00:11:37,519 --> 00:11:41,080 I think you can bet on saying they won't make any move of significance. 170 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,600 Of the three players mentioned, though, I think that Shrewder is the overwhelmingly 171 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:48,399 likely acquisition just because of the feasibility behind it. I'm with you there, 172 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:52,559 This is related, So I will skip to a Twitter one really quickly, 173 00:11:52,639 --> 00:11:56,360 truth be told, Ask which franchises are interested in an Eric Gordon trade with 174 00:11:56,399 --> 00:12:00,639 the Rockets. I could probably name twenty nine of them that I was gonna 175 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:05,639 say the same thing, like all of them. I really love the idea 176 00:12:05,919 --> 00:12:11,720 of him basically anywhere. I mean, he's become such a well rounded player, 177 00:12:11,759 --> 00:12:16,240 who provides that floor spacing, who can put pressure on the rim, 178 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:20,559 who has some defensive juice, that it's very easy to make an argument for 179 00:12:20,639 --> 00:12:24,080 him in just about every situation. I think someone like the Clippers makes the 180 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:31,080 most sense because they're able to maximize every single piece of his profile. But 181 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:35,320 then what are they sending back? Are they really willing to meet that price 182 00:12:35,399 --> 00:12:39,799 point during a season that they might not have Peaque, Paul George, They're 183 00:12:39,799 --> 00:12:45,000 not going to have Kawhi Leonard there you can I think you can reasonably argue 184 00:12:45,039 --> 00:12:48,480 him everywhere. Yeah, and it would not be for a rebuilding team, 185 00:12:48,519 --> 00:12:50,840 and the Clippers can't trade a first round pick. But if you could do 186 00:12:50,879 --> 00:12:54,080 something with Eric Blootzone enough seconds to make it work, he would be great 187 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,039 there as I don't know if they're going to be trying, like with Paul 188 00:12:56,039 --> 00:12:58,799 George and Kauai Out, I don't know what they're ema is going to be 189 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:00,840 my favorite teams for him, and we were to peg the ones that I 190 00:13:00,879 --> 00:13:03,840 think thinks should be the most aggressive going after him at the deadline. I 191 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:05,879 wouldn't mind Cleveland thinking about it, just because of all that he does. 192 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:09,960 I love him in Phoenix. I think it is probably my favorite destination for 193 00:13:09,039 --> 00:13:13,279 him. I think he would be huge for Dallas. So those would be 194 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,240 teams that I would circle that should really be looking at him. You could 195 00:13:16,279 --> 00:13:20,200 also, though, like the Lakers, if you're talking about like the special 196 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:24,000 package where they have to give up at twenty twenty seven pick. I don't 197 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,080 know that Eric Gordons. That's something the player you want to do it for. 198 00:13:26,399 --> 00:13:28,279 I would do it for Eric Gordon if I were the Lakers, just 199 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,120 looking at at where they are, and so those are the teams that immediately 200 00:13:31,159 --> 00:13:33,879 spring to mind. But I could talk myself into you know, I would 201 00:13:33,919 --> 00:13:35,639 love him on the Bucks they don't just don't have the assets and move them. 202 00:13:35,639 --> 00:13:39,240 Maybe Memphis if you're just talking about expiring money and one of those lower 203 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:43,240 end first that they have, that could be a fun one. There are 204 00:13:43,279 --> 00:13:45,679 just a lot of different options to choose from, but I think Phoenix or 205 00:13:45,759 --> 00:13:48,759 Dallas. I think those two teams would be the most aggressive going after him 206 00:13:48,799 --> 00:13:54,159 because I believe he would elevate them the most. When we're talking about postseason 207 00:13:54,200 --> 00:14:00,440 bound squads, I might throw the Atlanta Hawks into that same ballpark your Homer. 208 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,759 I got it because I'm a hommer. No, but I mean for 209 00:14:03,799 --> 00:14:07,039 real, because he does provide that wing defense, because he does provide that 210 00:14:07,159 --> 00:14:13,120 secondary creation that they are ultimately still lacking because the offseason pieces have not jelt. 211 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:16,720 Yeah, you want another Tew would make sense. It's just I can't 212 00:14:16,759 --> 00:14:20,440 figure out the trade that would make it work. The Celtics could really use 213 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:26,799 an Eric Gordon the Celtics could use basically in everything right now, though they're 214 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:28,840 like they're okay, I'm biggs. I think Robert Williams Alhorfer there, that's 215 00:14:28,879 --> 00:14:35,039 rock SOLIDY don't need another big sure, Let's go to Christopher from Discord ask 216 00:14:35,159 --> 00:14:37,960 everyone talks about their predictions for what a trade for? What trade a team 217 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,200 is going to do to improve their season? What sort of horrible trade would 218 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:46,080 you like to see a team you don't like make that would completely eighty six 219 00:14:46,159 --> 00:14:50,159 their season? This is a pure out of spite sort of scenario there. 220 00:14:50,279 --> 00:14:52,799 Look, I'm gonna tell you the one if you didn't think of one yet, 221 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,080 So I'll just go first year, I want to see the Knicks trade 222 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,879 for Russell Westbrook and get off of Julius Rynold Evan Fournier. That is just 223 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:05,960 the like I proposed this. I'm saving the Lakers season. I thought we 224 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:16,320 were ruining someone's season. No, weah ruining the knickses trade Julius Randall to 225 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:18,759 ruin something, doesn't it have to be a good thing. You're ruining Tom 226 00:15:18,759 --> 00:15:26,519 Thimbodeau's ability to not play to ignore playing Cam Reddish by trading Kemba Walker Fournier 227 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,679 and Julius Randall for Russell Westbrook and Bryan Poporak, who actually asked the question 228 00:15:31,759 --> 00:15:35,360 but he came on the podcast last week, said that the Lakers Pod, 229 00:15:35,399 --> 00:15:37,840 you need to send the Knicks a pick in that, and I'm like, 230 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:41,240 you send them a pick, that's fine. You want to send them a 231 00:15:41,279 --> 00:15:45,240 swap or that twenty twenty seven first, that's fine. I think it helps 232 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,679 the Lakers, but then it also kind of just torpedoes the Knicks season to 233 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:50,840 the point that this was the team that was steel good coming out as the 234 00:15:50,879 --> 00:15:54,919 biggest surprise of last year everyone thought was at least probably a rock solid playoff 235 00:15:54,960 --> 00:16:00,519 team this year. Just admitting that they're going absolutely nowhere, I feel like 236 00:16:00,559 --> 00:16:03,399 you're fundamentally misunderstanding the premise of the question, because the Knicks, as we 237 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:08,279 record our twenty three and twenty seven and have shown no signs of upward potentials, 238 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,240 but they showed no signs of that they're going to rebuild either. So 239 00:16:11,279 --> 00:16:17,039 I'm eighty sixteen fair and I don't know that I actually fare any team, 240 00:16:17,559 --> 00:16:21,559 So it's like I'm in the same boat. I think like my best answer 241 00:16:21,559 --> 00:16:25,759 to this question is any move involving James Harden. That would be the best 242 00:16:25,759 --> 00:16:29,960 one. The nets just trading Kyrie Irving, trading James Harden and admitting like 243 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:33,639 this whole thing was just fragile, beyond reason. So we're just gonna have 244 00:16:33,679 --> 00:16:38,799 to But yeah, I mean, like it's funny. It's funny when maybe 245 00:16:38,799 --> 00:16:42,559 this is going to spiral into a bigger picture discussion. But I think when 246 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:47,679 you work in any sort of basketball media, you know you've you've been writing 247 00:16:47,679 --> 00:16:49,240 for so long. I wrote for eight years and have been on the editing 248 00:16:49,279 --> 00:16:53,960 side, but still maintain these Twitter accounts and everything, and still spend time 249 00:16:55,360 --> 00:17:00,919 discussing things on basketball Twitter. To some extent, I think anytime you partake 250 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,559 in any of that that you get the accusations that you hate teams, And 251 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,880 it's like the exact opposite. I feel like, all the time I spent 252 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,720 writing and all the time I spent on League Pass watching every team, you 253 00:17:11,759 --> 00:17:17,920 find little things to appreciate about every team. You find one hidden gem who 254 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:22,039 you enjoy watching. You find a set that you enjoy seeing trotted out there 255 00:17:22,039 --> 00:17:26,279 on a regular basis. There are things that we like watching about just about 256 00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:30,599 every team, even the ones that are truly atrocious. We can find enjoyment 257 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:36,440 watching them because you're seeing the development of young players. So this idea that 258 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:44,720 we hate teams is kind of a weird, nonsensical concept to me, because 259 00:17:44,799 --> 00:17:48,880 even if it comes across that way sometimes, like I never wrote anything just 260 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,440 for the sake of being provocative, and I know you don't either, Like, 261 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,680 if we're insulting a team, it's because we feel it's justified. If 262 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:59,240 we're insulting a player, it's because we feel it's justified. To me, 263 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:03,279 Like, I don't know that there's a team that I really hate. Yeah, 264 00:18:03,319 --> 00:18:07,319 it would be objectively hysterical if the nets were just like, this is 265 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:08,799 a disaster. We're stripling down the other one I thought of, And I 266 00:18:08,839 --> 00:18:12,519 don't hate them, and I wouldn't do this. But if Ryan Smith, 267 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:17,079 you know, the proprietor of the Utah Jazz, is just too scared by 268 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,119 the tax bill, looking at them being two eleven in their last game, 269 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:27,000 eleven losing what and they just like and they're they just break up. Rudy 270 00:18:27,039 --> 00:18:33,160 Gobert Donovan Mitchell actualizing all the national media's or fans as concerns about those two 271 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:37,039 not liking each other despite this insistence. I think that everything's fine, They're 272 00:18:37,039 --> 00:18:38,200 going to be okay, and I don't subscribe to the model if they're gonna 273 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:42,000 have to get rid of Donovan Mitchell, I'm just saying. I'm just saying 274 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,240 it would be hysterical if I do believe a lot of people think they might 275 00:18:45,279 --> 00:18:48,160 have to maybe look at moving Rudy Gobert if they flame out in the playoff 276 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:52,519 this season, it would be objectively wild if they just decide, to know 277 00:18:52,559 --> 00:18:55,880 what, we're fourth in the West. Now, we've just lost eleven of 278 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,279 our last thirteen. We don't have Joe Ingles, We're probably gonna he's gonna 279 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:02,440 leave in free and Seam will even play next year, given any towards a 280 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:03,559 cl and he's gonna have to wait a few weeks to have surgery. But 281 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,920 you have a question on this later, So one type twint. But that 282 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:08,640 would be the other team where it kind of comes out of nowhere and they're 283 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:12,599 just eighty six ing their entire season. So Brooklyn or you, Tommy, 284 00:19:12,599 --> 00:19:17,200 the other one would be. And I'll criticize the Bucks, the people in 285 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:18,599 charge of the Bucks for this. If they just decided, you know what, 286 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:22,599 we have all this high equity from last year. We're gonna slash our 287 00:19:22,599 --> 00:19:26,279 tax bill, and we're not even gonna try and acquire like a Brook Lopez 288 00:19:26,319 --> 00:19:27,880 proxy since he might not play again this season. And we're gonna look at 289 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:33,000 moving Chris Milton or Drew Holiday just to try and get cheaper. But that 290 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:36,839 would be, like any of these decisions by the Nets, the Bucks, 291 00:19:37,039 --> 00:19:40,039 or the Jazz, would just be blasphemous to do that. Let me make 292 00:19:40,079 --> 00:19:42,359 that clear. But Milwaukee just bring back p J. Tucker, who's having 293 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:48,920 a spectacular season in Miami. I'm just taking your lack of engagement on my 294 00:19:48,079 --> 00:19:52,640 I don't hate any team thing as a tacit admission that you do, and 295 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,960 you're just not sharing it. So I hate I hate the Knicks they are. 296 00:19:56,759 --> 00:20:03,640 Then I despise the Knicks I legitimately, not actually, but also genuinely. 297 00:20:03,799 --> 00:20:08,400 That was a diabolical question. I think it's the best one to say 298 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:15,000 that. Jakester asked top five candidates for the buy out market and why should 299 00:20:15,039 --> 00:20:18,480 they all go to the Nets? So I made my list of what I 300 00:20:18,519 --> 00:20:21,559 think the five best players who could get brought out are. I don't have 301 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:26,759 Brooklyn is the best destination for any of them not to ruin Jakes Jakester's vibes. 302 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,400 Here, I will say Daddy is Young made the list, and I 303 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,799 think Phoenix is the best landing spot for him, even though they've kind of 304 00:20:33,799 --> 00:20:38,039 figured out the Beyonbo the big Mass spot with Beymbo and McGhee. But I 305 00:20:38,079 --> 00:20:41,839 think the Nets would be a close second, or maybe tied for first. 306 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:45,160 There. Let's go through my other four and see if you agree. I've 307 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,480 Gary Harris, who's been playing a lot better of late. He just makes 308 00:20:48,519 --> 00:20:51,759 twenty plus million dollars, so I don't think he's gonna get moved. I 309 00:20:51,799 --> 00:20:56,160 have the Nuggets as actually his best face. I can see it. They 310 00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:00,240 could absolutely use that given all the perimeter injuries. If they suffered they that 311 00:21:00,599 --> 00:21:03,799 secondary tertiary shooting scoring presence. I will say, if we want to bring 312 00:21:03,799 --> 00:21:07,039 this back to the Nets, if they're not going to have Joe Harris back 313 00:21:07,559 --> 00:21:10,920 for the rest of the season, Gary Harrison would make a lot of sense. 314 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,000 I just don't know if they can guarantee him enough playing time to make 315 00:21:14,039 --> 00:21:15,920 that work. And by the way, I was looking at like the Lakers. 316 00:21:15,079 --> 00:21:18,680 The Lakers too, I think makes sense there. Yeah, but they 317 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:22,519 are just so inconsistent with their rotations, and he's on the tinier And just 318 00:21:22,599 --> 00:21:26,400 do you want to tether any part of your career to Russell Westbrook's team right 319 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:30,039 now? Absolutely not? There you go the And by the way, I 320 00:21:30,079 --> 00:21:33,119 wasn't including like minimum guys. If Paul Millstop doesn't get traded, he gets 321 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:36,759 weighted, he can't get brought out. And drag is the obvious one. 322 00:21:37,279 --> 00:21:41,599 Is he going anywhere else other than Dallas? That's exactly what I was gonna 323 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:45,480 say, Like the Clippers would make sense if they're trying to win still, 324 00:21:45,079 --> 00:21:48,759 but I don't know if they're going to be invested in doing anything other than 325 00:21:48,759 --> 00:21:52,480 cutting their tax bill. Dallas is such an obvious front runner for that one. 326 00:21:52,799 --> 00:21:56,480 I think this exercise gets interesting though. After those three names, I 327 00:21:56,519 --> 00:22:00,559 don't think they're like these obvious buyout candidates. You could hit on Twitter and 328 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,960 discord whatever if you have any suggestions. But the final two that I have 329 00:22:03,559 --> 00:22:07,960 Jeremy Lamb in Indiana. He's like sort of playing right now, but what 330 00:22:08,079 --> 00:22:11,279 the fuck is Indiana doing? And when they're at full strength, I don't 331 00:22:11,279 --> 00:22:15,759 think they actually want to play him, And he's a free agent anyway. 332 00:22:15,279 --> 00:22:19,079 He would be we're talking about the calves not giving up like assets for anyone. 333 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,839 Instead of training for Cars Lavert or Dennis Shooter, maybe you just go 334 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:27,400 out and get Jeremy Lamb because he's someone who could dribble. Sure, as 335 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,079 you said, we're kind of scraping at the bottom of the barrel on these 336 00:22:30,079 --> 00:22:33,200 ones. Now, Well, I actually didn't mind that one. Actually thought 337 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:34,759 that was a pretty clever suggestion. I don't know if you have another. 338 00:22:36,319 --> 00:22:40,279 I just I don't. I feel like it's just after those first three names. 339 00:22:40,279 --> 00:22:42,839 It does feel so unlikely. And we've set it before on some previous 340 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:48,039 episodes that this year's buyout market just doesn't really feel like it's going to be 341 00:22:48,079 --> 00:22:52,279 that significant because with the the out event of the play tournament last year, 342 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:56,359 and given the widespread parody, parody and uncertainty that has proliferated this season, 343 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,799 there just aren't that many teams that are going to be willing to pay to 344 00:23:00,839 --> 00:23:06,079 get rid of someone. Yes, and my final name it was between Thomas 345 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:10,319 Adaranski and Torrian Prince, and Prince has played better in recent weeks and shot 346 00:23:10,319 --> 00:23:11,960 the ball better that I went with him. It also leads me believe that 347 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,480 Hey, if Minnesota doesn't trade him, I was expiring contract, they don't 348 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,920 buy him out, but he would be if he wants more playing time. 349 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:21,799 I had Chicago Milwaukee would be fantastic fits for him if he gets bought out. 350 00:23:22,759 --> 00:23:26,279 Prefer Milwaukee there, But I just I don't see Minnesota being willing to 351 00:23:26,319 --> 00:23:29,079 make a move like that right now while it's on my rise. Well, 352 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:33,000 talk to Eve if even if there's just content there, you don't have an 353 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:37,279 incentive to move him. Well, so if you're if you're looking down the 354 00:23:37,279 --> 00:23:38,759 line, there are two scenarios in which it makes sense. Is maybe you 355 00:23:38,839 --> 00:23:42,519 make a move and he just becomes superfluous on your roster. Or maybe you're 356 00:23:42,559 --> 00:23:45,359 trading him as part of another move to a different team who then just buys 357 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,839 him out because they're not in it anyway. And so I think he's a 358 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:52,640 he's a real buyout candidate. If the Timber will do anything heading into the 359 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:59,640 deadline, Hoop Informatics X said, you can take the idea of this question 360 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:03,720 and run with it however you want. Teams now thought experiment. Teams now 361 00:24:03,759 --> 00:24:07,319 consists solely of clones of one player. There's a team of five Nicola yokich 362 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,480 is a team of five Steph Curries, five Lebrons, five Kevin Durants, 363 00:24:11,559 --> 00:24:15,960 and five Ish Mits. Which team would win the championship? What team would 364 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,720 be overrated? What would five Steph Curries versus five Nicola Yokiches look like? 365 00:24:19,839 --> 00:24:25,279 You can expand and take this question wherever you want. Yeah, I spent 366 00:24:25,319 --> 00:24:30,759 way too much time thinking about this today. I think it really depends on 367 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:37,000 how you frame this. Are we operating in a league where the injury sliders 368 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:41,240 are turned off? Do we actually have a twelve man roster of these players 369 00:24:41,319 --> 00:24:45,160 or a fifteen man roster so that if one gets hurt, another can step 370 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,680 in, Because I think that changes the answer a lot. If we are 371 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,839 operating in a world without injuries or with an unlimited number of these players as 372 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:59,799 replacements, I think the answer is Kawhi Leonard because when you do this exercise, 373 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:04,799 you need both size and the ability to fill every role. So while 374 00:25:04,839 --> 00:25:11,519 it's it's incredibly appealing to have five Steph Curries on the court together, because 375 00:25:11,599 --> 00:25:15,000 what the fuck is a defense going to do? You're going to be in 376 00:25:15,039 --> 00:25:17,839 big trouble. On the other end, you're not going to get many respounds 377 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,200 you're not going to be able to play against any teams with bigger players, 378 00:25:21,319 --> 00:25:26,160 especially skilled bigger players. Conversely, Yokich, for all that he brings to 379 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,720 the table, for all the skill skill with which he operates on the offensive 380 00:25:29,799 --> 00:25:32,640 end, and for the underratedness of his defense, unless you're looking at the 381 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:37,240 TPA metric, which oversells his defense, he is ultimately a lumbering, plotting 382 00:25:37,279 --> 00:25:40,759 big man. He is not going to be nearly quick enough to keep up 383 00:25:40,759 --> 00:25:44,680 with the guard heavy teams in transition or in the half court sets. You 384 00:25:44,759 --> 00:25:48,599 have to find a happy medium, which to me means you're looking at the 385 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,319 true two way wings. You're looking at Lebron James. You're looking at Jimmy 386 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:56,480 Butler. You're looking at Kawhi Leonard, You're looking at Jannisan Dakumpo. Jannis 387 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,240 was my first instinct. But ultimately, even if he is impervious to every 388 00:26:00,319 --> 00:26:03,440 kind of defense these days, no matter how much you pack the paint against 389 00:26:03,559 --> 00:26:07,440 him, he can still find a way to get to the basket and score. 390 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:12,119 You do need some semblance of floor spacing if you're asking this one player 391 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:17,039 team to operate for a full season and a full playoff run. And win 392 00:26:17,079 --> 00:26:21,200 a championship. So to me, as long as the injuries are turned off, 393 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:26,279 the answer has to be Kauai because he can defend. He has the 394 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:30,279 size to match up against bigger players, he has the quickness to stay with 395 00:26:30,319 --> 00:26:33,160 the smaller players. He can shoot, He's going to space out whatever defense 396 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:37,720 you find. He can pass, he can operate an isolation. To me, 397 00:26:37,839 --> 00:26:41,559 he's the most well rounded player for this exercise. Lebron is probably number 398 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,400 two and is my choice if injuries are a thing. I was about to 399 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:49,440 ask you, why why Kwai over Lebron? No, if you're turning injuries 400 00:26:49,519 --> 00:26:55,160 off the defense at this stage of his career, because Lebron can turn on 401 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:59,240 the defensive chops for small stretches. But if we're asking him to be the 402 00:26:59,279 --> 00:27:03,519 only player you've seen in the last five years or so, how frequently he 403 00:27:03,519 --> 00:27:06,799 can get caught napping off the ball. And even if he's playing great on 404 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:11,079 ball defense, four of him have to play off ball defense too. What 405 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,839 about that is a sentence I never expected to say. What about five kds? 406 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,920 Though? Do not trust the defense against smaller players because we've seen him 407 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,119 do the dance against wings and plays before. Yeah, I think his I 408 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,039 think his defense tends to get sold a little short, but it's still not 409 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:27,160 quite on the same level as as QUI not even close to the same level. 410 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:32,559 So he's going to be a scoring nightmare. I just don't know that 411 00:27:33,079 --> 00:27:37,880 I want that style of play. Who would be your choice if you're limited 412 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:44,319 to non stars, someone who doesn't rank as doesn't have an All Star case 413 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:49,880 this season. Wow, that is one that I did not prepare for, 414 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,119 and I almost like need to look through a list of names. Do you 415 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:59,200 have anyone who immediately comes to mind? Frankielkina one would definitely Bey. We 416 00:27:59,279 --> 00:28:02,720 knew that was coming. Kendrick Williams, like if we were taught role player, 417 00:28:02,799 --> 00:28:06,960 role player, I'm not even joking layer role player. So but I 418 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:08,480 mean, if you wanted to go like the, just as an example of 419 00:28:08,519 --> 00:28:11,440 like the, at least you gonna be an All Star this year, so 420 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:12,720 it's not fair. But like Fred van Fleet, I'm not even thinking like 421 00:28:12,759 --> 00:28:15,279 that high That was the first name that came to mind, and I thought 422 00:28:15,279 --> 00:28:18,720 that was a little much. I'm not calling him a role player. The 423 00:28:18,759 --> 00:28:22,359 fact that he would be like existing outside of this is sort of the reason 424 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:27,759 why whatever. But I'm I'm like all the non stars. I didn't really 425 00:28:27,839 --> 00:28:30,039 give that much that that was one that just sprang to me, which would 426 00:28:30,039 --> 00:28:34,640 be like Harrison Barnes, that's a pretty good one. That's like super plug 427 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,279 and play and super scalable. That might be the answer. I'm trying to 428 00:28:38,279 --> 00:28:42,839 think if there's a better one that comes to mind. I don't think there 429 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:47,440 is. I got I got nobody on that one, Like Bridges. Maybe 430 00:28:47,839 --> 00:28:49,559 Mikail Bridges would be a good one. Would Nicholas the Tune be a good 431 00:28:49,599 --> 00:28:53,759 one, might be a good one. He probably would be. You know, 432 00:28:53,799 --> 00:28:56,799 I think that's the kind of player that we're looking at, looking at 433 00:28:56,839 --> 00:29:02,839 though, a guy who can score involvedvolume, who can defend you ultimately want 434 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,039 the jack of all trades, master of note, if we're looking at that, 435 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,119 if we're looking for that kind of thing. Yeah, Scotty Barnes, 436 00:29:11,359 --> 00:29:15,240 Oh, I mean a little bit worried about the shooting, But for sure 437 00:29:15,359 --> 00:29:18,920 Scott Barnes would og he defends. I don't think there's enough. I don't 438 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:23,680 know that there's enough offensive juice there. If it's five ogs, one og, 439 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,920 sure, five of them. That's also just too many capital letters. 440 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,920 What about just because we've seen the flashes. Aaron Gordon or Jeremy Grant could 441 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:41,440 deserve some consideration here. I'd probably still go with Harrison Barnes. But yeah, 442 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,119 I think I'm still sticking with Harrison Barnes there the is he too high 443 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,640 end for this? Miles Bridges, I think he's become too high end, 444 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:53,279 Gordon Hayward too high end, two high end. I'm just gonna use since 445 00:29:53,319 --> 00:29:57,400 we're just this is completely arbitrary at this point, like we have no defined 446 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:02,880 ranking parameters whatsoever. For all of my qwie instincts are just yelling at me 447 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:07,039 at the moment. Okay, last one and just and you had to have 448 00:30:07,119 --> 00:30:11,839 watched the Heat a good amount of this season to understand PJ. Tucker passing. 449 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,559 They're using him as like a post passer, making decisions from standstills. 450 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,559 He's not, he's running. You want PJ Tucker to dribble the basketball? 451 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,200 I don't know a problem with it. I would just I would think about 452 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:27,960 it. If Okay, if it was PJ. Tucker versus Robert Covington, 453 00:30:29,279 --> 00:30:33,000 I'd put PJ Tucker. You know why? You know why I remember this 454 00:30:33,119 --> 00:30:38,079 question because so I when when we saw this come through the discord, and 455 00:30:38,119 --> 00:30:41,599 I told you this before we started recording. It's like I thought about this 456 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,480 before. What did we do this on a previous episode? Did I write 457 00:30:45,519 --> 00:30:48,119 an article about it back in the day at Bleacher for it. No, 458 00:30:48,319 --> 00:30:53,480 It's because in the summer of twenty nineteen, we did the NBA Math All 459 00:30:53,519 --> 00:30:57,799 Time one on one tournament where we had literally every player in NBA history in 460 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:02,440 brackets and asked for the fan votes and went through that whole exercise, and 461 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,839 I thought about doing a follow up one that asked this exact question. So 462 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:11,640 I wanted to approach this from a historical perspective and see who we would take 463 00:31:11,839 --> 00:31:17,039 all time In this same conversation, would you take five Michael Jordan's would you 464 00:31:17,079 --> 00:31:19,960 take five Lebron James? Would you take five? Will Chamberlain's five, Magic 465 00:31:21,039 --> 00:31:25,359 Johnson's, so on and so forth. I think if we're just talking, 466 00:31:25,559 --> 00:31:27,079 that's like a discussion. Another problem if we're talking the peak of each of 467 00:31:27,119 --> 00:31:32,759 their careers. I'm going with Lebron James. I think so too. Jordan 468 00:31:32,839 --> 00:31:37,799 would think John would be the other answers. I think I don't know if 469 00:31:37,799 --> 00:31:41,799 I would want Magic that high in this conversation just because he was never a 470 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,960 go to scorer. He could score, he was an a dept scorer, 471 00:31:47,039 --> 00:31:51,519 but without the without the floor spacing ability. I just wonder if you can 472 00:31:51,599 --> 00:31:56,480 mitigate some of the passing impact. That was an interesting thought exercise. I 473 00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,839 didn't anticipate spending as much time on it, but PJ. Tucker was the 474 00:32:00,839 --> 00:32:04,079 answer for both of us. That's final, followed by Frankiela Kina kayone was 475 00:32:04,079 --> 00:32:07,720 looking for for a recap. Let's before we move on, though, I 476 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:09,680 want to touch on the other aspects of that question. Who would be some 477 00:32:09,759 --> 00:32:22,519 the most overrated team? You know, I am probably gonna go with five 478 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:28,000 Nicola Yokiches. That was my answer too. That's like he needs other people 479 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,920 who aren't Nicole Yokis around him to maximize the best Nicola Yoki possible. It's 480 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:36,400 I'm not saying he can't create his own shot, but like other Nicole yokich 481 00:32:36,519 --> 00:32:40,799 Is can't like dart around off the ball, like an Aaron Gordon or Will 482 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:45,960 Barton, or like Gary Harris when he was there. You know, it 483 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:50,039 would be an underrated choice. If we're looking at this in like the last 484 00:32:50,079 --> 00:32:58,200 ten years, would be Marcassol, maybe I think there's just enough anticipatory foot 485 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,200 speed that it could work when there are four other Marcusols around you, though 486 00:33:01,319 --> 00:33:05,759 I'm not sure how much that anticipatory spe actually matters. I just don't know 487 00:33:05,799 --> 00:33:12,559 how anyone's going to score another another underrated another underrated one here. If you 488 00:33:12,599 --> 00:33:17,599 want to win games two to nothing, can you imagine five Matisse tables on 489 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:25,960 the court? I guess? I mean, but who is is he? 490 00:33:27,079 --> 00:33:31,200 Like? He's he holding up against like Biggs? No? Maybe, but 491 00:33:31,279 --> 00:33:35,160 like you still have if you're playing against a team of Biggs, you still 492 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:39,039 have to throw an entry pass, and that's a dangerous proposition. I feel 493 00:33:39,079 --> 00:33:44,039 like he could win games like thirty to twenty five just solely on transition run 494 00:33:44,039 --> 00:33:45,519 out opportunities. You know, I might. I'm gonna tell you right now 495 00:33:45,559 --> 00:33:52,880 that five Matisse tiples aren't averaging twenty five points a game. Uh, let's 496 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:58,519 move out of the question from Ryan asked which team could have a Grizzlies slash 497 00:33:58,519 --> 00:34:04,039 Hawks esque rise next and why is it the magic? Yeah? I think 498 00:34:04,039 --> 00:34:07,880 it is the magic. I don't have anyone who I'm even willing to put 499 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:13,599 in that same ballpark. Why why aren't the Pelicans in that ballpark because I 500 00:34:13,639 --> 00:34:17,159 just don't really trust Zion and beyond him and Josh Giddy, I don't know, 501 00:34:17,519 --> 00:34:21,519 how are the Pelicans you said, not the Thunder. I'm just mixing 502 00:34:21,599 --> 00:34:24,760 up teams now. I just I don't know that there's the same depth of 503 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:32,119 talent because there might not be that singular superstar in Orlando, but there are 504 00:34:32,159 --> 00:34:37,960 so many different pieces who I can see developing into like a fringe All Star. 505 00:34:37,039 --> 00:34:42,800 It's the same conversation we had before the season started where I said that 506 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,320 I think the Spurs have the fewest future All Stars on their team, which 507 00:34:46,599 --> 00:34:52,000 sold de Jante Murray way too short. But we directly compared them to the 508 00:34:52,039 --> 00:34:55,880 Magic where especially with the emergence of Mo Bamba, now you can go up 509 00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:00,440 and down this roster and find so many intriguing talents who they don't have to 510 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:06,400 acquire externally. So Jalen Suggs has started to show flashes more recently. Cole 511 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:08,800 Anthony has shown those flashes throughout the season. Mark Hill Foltz is still going 512 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:14,840 to emerge and give something at some point. Franz Wagner has been incredible. 513 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:19,440 Chuma o'keke has come on strong as of late, and we haven't even mentioned 514 00:35:19,519 --> 00:35:22,639 Jonathan Isaac, who is as close to a foundational piece as you're going to 515 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:29,960 find among all of these candidates. So I just think the depth of potential 516 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:35,719 answers to this question in Orlando is stronger than what you're going to find anywhere 517 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,679 else. So if you look at someone like the Thunder with Shay Gil, 518 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:43,400 Just Alexander and Josh Giddy and then a bunch of dart throws, you can 519 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:45,360 get excited about that, But I don't know that you can to the same 520 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:50,840 extent, And then in New Orleans like, yes there is Zion Williamson, 521 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,679 Yes there's Herbert Jones. How many other pieces are you getting excited about there? 522 00:35:55,480 --> 00:36:00,519 Let's start. So what I think is also key here is the Pelicans 523 00:36:00,519 --> 00:36:02,760 in relation to the Hawks of last year and the Grizzlies of this year, 524 00:36:04,079 --> 00:36:07,920 is you still need like the semi established or the rising tent poll player. 525 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:14,760 Orlando does not have that unless Jalen Suggs is going kaboom or Jonathan Isaac does 526 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,159 something on offense and stays healthy in ways that we have not seen. So 527 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:22,440 you have Zion, you have Brandon Ingram, you have Jonnis Fouancunist. You 528 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:27,360 have Herb Jones, you have Josh Hart, you have DeVante Graham, you 529 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:31,599 have Jose Alvarado's given great defensive minutes, and you have I'm just gonna keep 530 00:36:31,639 --> 00:36:36,440 going. Jackson Hayes has shown you flashes. Look at Willy Hernon Gomez has 531 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,320 done for you. What happens if Willy Green decides, Hey, if we're 532 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:42,760 talking about trying to make the upside play, there's the picks that they'll have 533 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,400 this year, and there's also what if they actually decide to play Trey Murphy 534 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:49,960 because they still sort of need the player who's exactly like him. And I 535 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,679 think that you know, there, they've gotten better this season while giving minutes 536 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:57,280 to Sato and Gary Clark, and those aren't players to me, you should 537 00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,039 be getting minutes if they're cating towards the bigger picture. And I'll just circle 538 00:37:00,079 --> 00:37:04,199 back to I think you can argue that as of next season, if you're 539 00:37:04,199 --> 00:37:08,199 putting them up against the Magic specifically, they have the two players with the 540 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:13,760 highest ceilings of next Yeah, so I think that New Orleans is more likely 541 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,119 to be better next season than Orlando. That's just not how I interpret this 542 00:37:17,199 --> 00:37:21,679 question. Because if I think about the Hawks and the Grizzlies. They did 543 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,039 have that one singular foundational building block, but then they had eight hundred more 544 00:37:25,079 --> 00:37:29,960 players who went kaboom to some extent, you know, they had guys who 545 00:37:30,039 --> 00:37:34,519 got that much better and were able to become that much better of a supporting 546 00:37:34,599 --> 00:37:37,239 cast. And all of those names that you mentioned in New Orleans, how 547 00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:42,440 many of those have like eight more rungs on the ladder To assent, I 548 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,880 don't know that we're getting a gigantic lead out of brandon Ingram or Josh Hart 549 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:49,360 at this point. I know that we're not getting that out of Yona's valanciunas 550 00:37:49,639 --> 00:37:52,199 relative to the level at which he's playing right now. I think with Orlando, 551 00:37:52,679 --> 00:37:55,800 you can go up and down that roster and find guys who if they 552 00:37:55,880 --> 00:38:00,400 all make that leap simultaneously, you go from the bottom to contending for the 553 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:04,360 top. And that's how I interpret this question. It's a It's not a 554 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,920 likelihood of being the better team, it's the magnitude of improvement potential. So 555 00:38:09,119 --> 00:38:15,119 you're basing it off of because the Magic players are worse. Yes, yes, 556 00:38:15,519 --> 00:38:20,039 because they have a lower I don't think so. Because they have a 557 00:38:20,039 --> 00:38:23,119 lower baseline and a higher ceiling. So, if if everything goes according to 558 00:38:23,159 --> 00:38:27,679 plan, which team is better Orlando New Orleans? To me, the answers 559 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,960 Orlando. How realistic is that? I don't know, but it is at 560 00:38:31,039 --> 00:38:37,039 least somewhat realistic that they get enough out of so many crucial young players that 561 00:38:37,079 --> 00:38:40,800 they make a gigantic leap. I think that the eighty percent outcome here is 562 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:45,719 that New Orleans is better than Orlando. I'm curious about that twenty percent that's 563 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:49,320 left, and I think that if we look at it that way, there's 564 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,760 just so much more room for growth because we're not talking about just making a 565 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:57,920 leap into the bottom of the Western Conference playoff picture or the bottom of the 566 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,440 Eastern Conference playoff picture. We're talking about a Hawks team that went from the 567 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:05,320 bottom of the lottery competing for top picks in the draft to an Eastern Conference 568 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,679 finals appearance. We're talking about a Memphis team that was not in the playoffs 569 00:39:07,679 --> 00:39:12,519 and is now being viewed as a potential contender in the West. So New 570 00:39:12,639 --> 00:39:15,920 Orleans, I think if you're if you're building out like the curve of their 571 00:39:15,079 --> 00:39:19,800 of their most likely outcomes, the mean is going to be set higher, 572 00:39:20,039 --> 00:39:22,480 but that distribution, that distribution is going to be a lot narrower, and 573 00:39:22,599 --> 00:39:28,239 Orlandos is a lot wider and has more top end outcomes. It might be 574 00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,920 wider because I think it has more lower right now comes. I don't see 575 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:32,679 how has it does it does I don't see how it has more top and 576 00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:36,320 outcomes when you're looking at like, first of all, the Grizzlies were a 577 00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:37,360 playoff team in each of the past two years, so it's not like they 578 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:43,199 were just disappearing from relevance. And you're talking about like the Hawks having John 579 00:39:43,199 --> 00:39:46,440 Collins and Trey Young like sort of your two incumbent cornerstones, the Grizzlies having 580 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:52,440 a healthy Jennen Jackson junior plus Jaw. I don't think I'm not looking at 581 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,480 the Grizzlies roster. Desmond Baine made the leap. No one else on the 582 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:58,960 team has just made like this gargantuan leap. Aside, like, if you 583 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,280 want to includ Jennet Jackson junior Jomrant, fine, but that's where the Zion 584 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:06,440 on William stuff comes into play. There is not anyone on Orlando's roster next 585 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:12,000 season who is going to sniff the transcendence of a healthy Zion Williamson, there's 586 00:40:12,159 --> 00:40:15,599 or a Trey Young when he was with the Hawks, or I don't think 587 00:40:15,639 --> 00:40:20,679 you can make a one to one comparison here regardless, just because every organization 588 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,199 is different. I'm just I don't see the path to them having more top 589 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:28,800 end outcomes when you don't have a player you do need that teen pole or 590 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:31,440 someone with the path to become that tempole star during a season like this, 591 00:40:32,199 --> 00:40:36,480 like Zion Williamson has a chance to be if he's healthy, one of the 592 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,320 five best players in the NBA your team by extension. Sure, but well, 593 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:44,559 what are the chances that he's actually healthy enough to achieve that outcome? 594 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,639 Why? But why would you ascribe that more likely to Orlando when what are 595 00:40:47,639 --> 00:40:53,679 the odds that Jonathan Isaac or Marquel Foltz are healthy. See I think that 596 00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:59,079 at this point, even if Isaac has had a number of major injuries, 597 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:04,719 they still don't give me the sense that he's like super injury prone or unmotivated. 598 00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,679 That seems really unfair to Zion because Jonathan Isaac is about to like not 599 00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:13,280 play basketball for two years, and you can say like they're worried about Zion's 600 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,280 conditioning, but he also had injuries that the Pelicans organization chose to hide there. 601 00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:20,559 Yeah, I don't know, It's just it's the perception though, because 602 00:41:20,599 --> 00:41:24,719 he's had the recurring injuries, the recurring out of shape issues, the reports 603 00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:29,599 about falling asleep and meetings, the reports about wanting out, the ballooning weight 604 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:36,800 issues. It's just there are so many things that are pointing towards an unlikelihood 605 00:41:37,159 --> 00:41:40,360 of him returning to that level we want him to be at, Whereas Isaac 606 00:41:40,599 --> 00:41:45,599 has had to deal with two major injuries that suck and have kept him out 607 00:41:45,639 --> 00:41:47,639 for a really long time. But we haven't heard any of those stories. 608 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,719 We also just haven't seen him on the floor like we've seen Zion, we 609 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,119 also haven't seen him on the floor. I just that's like, I'm actually 610 00:41:54,199 --> 00:41:58,039 just surprised that that would be your logic there, because I would even argue, 611 00:41:58,119 --> 00:42:00,760 who on the Magic next season are you're going to give a seventy five 612 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:06,599 percent chance or better being better being a more valuable, better player than Brandon 613 00:42:06,679 --> 00:42:10,320 Ingram. I think you can. I think you can make it. I'm 614 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:14,960 going to dump all over your Zion Williamson takes right now, there's just being 615 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,440 him play basketball and forever. So just assume he's going to be at a 616 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:22,000 fringe all star level for someone who is still I don't want to say underdeveloped, 617 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:27,360 but very limited offensively. And the other thing is like they just I 618 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:30,800 don't know, like they're they're deep. When you look at their young players, 619 00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:35,440 it's but they're not. It's more of an egalitarian field than the singular 620 00:42:35,519 --> 00:42:39,000 star carrying them all the way to the top. Because no, I don't 621 00:42:39,039 --> 00:42:42,519 I don't think that there's anyone who's going to get in that. Like all 622 00:42:42,639 --> 00:42:45,880 NBA conversation, I do think that there are a lot of guys who are 623 00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:47,880 going to be top end starter or could be top end starters and are going 624 00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:52,679 to be so to me, it's just a different roster construction that could promote 625 00:42:52,679 --> 00:42:57,920 a similar type of leap. I the only way I just see is if 626 00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:00,079 you're just assuming the team has to be working from a or baseline slay more 627 00:43:00,159 --> 00:43:05,559 room for glow growth. I really don't understand how I just to me personally, 628 00:43:05,559 --> 00:43:09,199 I don't see a pathway through Orlando having more top end outcomes or even 629 00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:14,039 a higher like I don't see either or I just don't see Orlando's case for 630 00:43:14,079 --> 00:43:17,880 it as really as next season. But I guess this. Agreements make podcasts 631 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:22,199 go around, so absolutely every one once in a while always find one. 632 00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:27,239 We have two questions about the Jazz from Karragan asked what did the Jazz do 633 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,920 after the Joe Ingles a cel injury? And then from other friends of the 634 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:35,119 podcast, Lazarus Jackson asked, is Utah stuck? I assume he is referring 635 00:43:35,159 --> 00:43:37,159 to like many others are referring to the Jazz or two and eleven as we 636 00:43:37,199 --> 00:43:42,519 record this over their last thirteen games, during which time they are twenty they 637 00:43:42,559 --> 00:43:45,760 are twenty if in points scored per possession and twenty fifth in points allowed per 638 00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:50,719 possession. I will note that they have missed Rudy Gay for a chunk of 639 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:54,519 that time. But I do think it's fair to just wonder what There are 640 00:43:54,559 --> 00:43:57,920 so many layers to this, because if Joe Ingles was one of your I 641 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,320 don't want to view it through. He was one of your primary trade chips 642 00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:02,719 as an expiring contract, is it more likely they get traded? Less likely 643 00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:07,360 you guys traded? He was also really important to your backup playmaking packing order 644 00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,639 because you don't have one. Really there is Commy and Mitchell, and then 645 00:44:10,639 --> 00:44:15,599 there was Ingles, and now there's Conley and Mitchell. And who's the third 646 00:44:15,599 --> 00:44:17,039 best playmaker on this team? Is it? It is Jordan Clarkson. You 647 00:44:17,039 --> 00:44:27,840 have a problem. It's probably Jordan and Clarkson. I think the answer is 648 00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:31,000 that they're a little stuck here. I'm not as worried about the recent slide 649 00:44:31,039 --> 00:44:35,440 just because it's coincided with, as you mentioned, Rudy Gay being out. 650 00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:40,039 It's coincided with Rudy Gobert being out of the lineup sometimes and having to reintegrate 651 00:44:40,079 --> 00:44:45,159 pieces, and it just feels like we haven't really gotten to see the full 652 00:44:45,159 --> 00:44:46,840 strength Utah Jazz in a while, which we know is so good. But 653 00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,960 the issue is we're not going to get to see it because Joe Ingles, 654 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,280 even in a bit of a down season for him, his defense hasn't been 655 00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:57,960 quite as impactful. He's struggled a little bit more with his shot, he's 656 00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:00,679 had to take on a smaller role, but he's still so vital to what 657 00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:07,400 this team does. So I don't really know what the path forward is here 658 00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:12,079 because you don't really have the trade ammunition to go out and replace him. 659 00:45:12,199 --> 00:45:16,400 You just don't, so to me, like the most likely path is really 660 00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:21,280 hoping for some quick development from the young guys. I mean, if you 661 00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,480 can get more out of Davion Mitchell, if you can, if you can 662 00:45:24,519 --> 00:45:30,039 get more out of Jared Butler, for example, then you have a chance 663 00:45:30,079 --> 00:45:35,880 to take to take somewhat of a step to mitigate some of this this loss. 664 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:40,440 But I don't really see how it's going to be solved externally. The 665 00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,559 Yeah, I actually don't see how it's gonna be solved internally. Most of 666 00:45:44,559 --> 00:45:45,920 pause, I don't think it's gonna be solved now because it feels like I 667 00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:49,760 don't either. Now you need too many things. They're not like what does 668 00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,199 Jared Butler provide you? I just don't think they're ever gonna give a chance 669 00:45:52,199 --> 00:45:54,280 in the regular season, at least this year. And so it's more like 670 00:45:54,400 --> 00:46:00,760 when you go to outside the organization, what does him plus Jordan Clarkson. 671 00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:02,119 Now, I guess at this point get you. Does that get you into 672 00:46:02,159 --> 00:46:06,639 the If it gets you into Josh Richardson discussion, that definitely helps you. 673 00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:10,199 But then you're still light on playmaking. If you can still use angles and 674 00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:15,400 seconds to get Robert Covington that certainly is going to help your defense, but 675 00:46:15,519 --> 00:46:19,679 you're still going to be light on playmaking. Is there like a mega trade 676 00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:23,800 where you're getting like Shruder and Josh Richardson from Boston, You're not at this 677 00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:27,679 point. I don't think you could get Marcus Smart because I do think unless 678 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,199 the Boston really loves Clarkson, I think Ingles would have been important to that 679 00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:34,400 deal as an actual player for Boston. I don't think it would have just 680 00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:38,039 been his inspiring salary. So they need a Josh Richardson type player, but 681 00:46:38,079 --> 00:46:40,519 they also need to address backup point guard now. And I think there are 682 00:46:40,519 --> 00:46:44,880 people that would argue that they want to see and I've seen them argue or 683 00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,199 listen to them argue that they want someone who's going to give you some help 684 00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:50,559 rim protection as well. And so all of a sudden, you're looking at 685 00:46:50,559 --> 00:46:52,639 a Jazz team that feels like it needs so much. I think some of 686 00:46:52,679 --> 00:46:58,159 those needs can be addressed in tandem. Like a Robert Covington I think would 687 00:46:58,679 --> 00:47:01,840 enable would empower your help defense behind Rudy Gobert and then also just give you 688 00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:07,360 more defensive juice on the perimeter. In general, Josh Chricherson really probably only 689 00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:09,719 solves one thing, and that's like defensive mobility, and he can he's hitting 690 00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:14,320 threes this season, but he really can't trust him to play make for you. 691 00:47:14,679 --> 00:47:15,760 Even if you tried to go out and get a denist Ruder, like 692 00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:19,960 that's really only solving your backup point guard issue and playing him. And if 693 00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,239 you're not giving up Jordan Clarkson as part of that deal, what are you 694 00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:25,159 doing there? I don't think Maxie clean was playing too well, and I 695 00:47:25,159 --> 00:47:29,239 don't think Dallas would help out Utah anyway. But something that I had given 696 00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:31,599 thought to is like a Jordan Clarkson for Maxi Cleveland, Reggie Bullock, like 697 00:47:31,639 --> 00:47:35,360 take on that money of Bullock who has not been playing simone. Dallas had 698 00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:37,400 some moments lately, but like that's not a team that's going to help Utah. 699 00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:42,880 So you're also in this situation where you have even more finite options and 700 00:47:43,039 --> 00:47:45,920 someone in the West is probably not helping you. I do wonder if, 701 00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:52,559 like because of the Ingles injury, does someone like Carris Lavert make sense for 702 00:47:52,599 --> 00:47:57,280 them, because now you need that playmaking element. Poor Eric Gordon. If 703 00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:00,239 you can somehow find a way to acquire him, like he does check more 704 00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:05,239 of the boxes that we're looking to check than any of these than any of 705 00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:07,960 these other players. Yeah, I think the deal would have to be because 706 00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:12,039 I still wouldn't give up. I think you can withstand pretty much trading anyone 707 00:48:12,119 --> 00:48:15,239 but Mitchell and Gobert and Connley would be my third one. But I still 708 00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:19,400 wouldn't trade boy On Bodonovitch. Just someone his size who shoots as well as 709 00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:22,119 he does and to show what he can do in the playoffs. I think 710 00:48:22,119 --> 00:48:27,239 if you can do like Eric Gordon and then it's for Clarkson slash ingless contract 711 00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:29,880 that that's just what has to be at this point unless you're gonna forever step 712 00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,320 by or your way to Gordon, and then stuff like are you giving up 713 00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:37,639 at twenty twenty six? First for Eric Gordon in that scenario, I wouldn't 714 00:48:37,639 --> 00:48:39,880 think so. But as Jared Butler and second is going to be enough in 715 00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:44,000 that scenario, I'd probably also doubt that. But yeah, in Eric Gordon 716 00:48:44,599 --> 00:48:47,280 or Kari Silbert feel like players that could solve I don't want to say a 717 00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:51,920 multitude, but more than one issue for the Jazz, and I think Robert 718 00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:54,039 Covington could as well. But I do think they're in this situation where they 719 00:48:54,119 --> 00:49:00,920 might have like three discernible holes despite being so deep and despite still having to 720 00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:05,280 steal your phrasing from before, they have a championship top end outcome like that 721 00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:07,559 is remaining intact. It just and I don't think you alluded to this too. 722 00:49:07,639 --> 00:49:10,960 Joe Eagles was not good for most of the season, and so I 723 00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,559 don't the idea of him is what you're losing more than him in practice, 724 00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:19,679 but it is opening more of another weakness for you because all of a sudden, 725 00:49:19,679 --> 00:49:23,199 your third best playmakers we just said, is it's Jordan Larson D fours, 726 00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:27,440 which is just not a good place. I think the best case scenario 727 00:49:27,559 --> 00:49:32,079 for Utah here is hoping that the topsy turvy nature of this season keeps rearing 728 00:49:32,079 --> 00:49:37,480 its ugly head up through the trade deadline, because if you have so many 729 00:49:37,599 --> 00:49:40,719 teams that are in contention not just for play in spots, but for like 730 00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:45,199 home court advantage in the first round, for real playoff spots that don't require 731 00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:51,199 that play in tournament, maybe you have so many organizations reticent to make moves 732 00:49:51,559 --> 00:49:54,960 because they don't feel like they have to that Jared Butler and a pair of 733 00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:59,719 second round picks actually gets it done for Eric Gordon because no one is offering 734 00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:02,519 more and because of what his own next season that might help them because of 735 00:50:02,559 --> 00:50:06,880 what Yeah, yeah, but I think that's what you're hoping for, is 736 00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:14,599 that somehow the market diminishes the price for these players who are actual impact players 737 00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:17,000 enough that you can get in on the sweepstakes without ever really being in on 738 00:50:17,039 --> 00:50:22,880 a sweepstakes. Yeah, because like Harrison Barnes, Jeremy Grant outcome, I 739 00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:27,239 just don't see you would have to trade more distant first and swaps than you 740 00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:30,920 should be for those players. If you can, if you can parlay Boyan 741 00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:37,039 Bogdanovich into something like that, yeah, you hate to lose him, You 742 00:50:37,079 --> 00:50:39,559 hate to lose that size, that shooting ability, everything he brings. But 743 00:50:39,639 --> 00:50:45,599 if you can turn him into a do everything player like Jeremy Grant, if 744 00:50:45,639 --> 00:50:50,599 you can turn him into three rotation players, then you might need to think 745 00:50:50,599 --> 00:50:53,159 about doing that because you have so many cracks to fill, Like ultimately, 746 00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:59,440 you have to consider breaking up the core to some extent if by doing it 747 00:50:59,519 --> 00:51:02,320 you can yourself in that one area to strengthen yourself in a whole bunch of 748 00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:06,639 different areas. So now I'm gonna have three follow up questions for you I 749 00:51:06,639 --> 00:51:08,199 only had I only had one, and now because of you talking, I 750 00:51:08,199 --> 00:51:14,239 have three. Would you do Billion Bardonovitch for Josh Richardson and Dennis Shrewder No 751 00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:17,039 for the job. I don't think I do it either. I also would 752 00:51:17,079 --> 00:51:22,159 not do I don't think Harrison Barnes is enough of an upgrade over Boyon Bogdanovitch, 753 00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:24,199 like if you were to give him up in a Jeremy Grant trade. 754 00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:29,079 Somehow I get it, because Grant's defensive ceiling is so much higher than Barnes 755 00:51:29,159 --> 00:51:32,840 is and his offensive ceiling is lower. But like, I think he would 756 00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:36,719 just do more of what you do now if you could turn him into five 757 00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:43,840 Harrison Barnes. The other two questions are how what is the what if they 758 00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:46,280 have to pick one, what is the biggest priority of the three that we 759 00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:53,679 talked about. I think it's gotta be the wing defense. I thought I 760 00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:58,880 would agree, but I almost feel like it needs to be the tertiary playmaking, 761 00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:02,440 which speaks to how little I trust shot maker and creator for himself. 762 00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:07,039 Fine, but like Daniel House, Junior hasn't been bad for them, and 763 00:52:07,119 --> 00:52:10,199 so to me, it almost feels like they need someone else who can like 764 00:52:10,519 --> 00:52:15,079 table set the most. So here's my reasoning though, Like when you get 765 00:52:15,119 --> 00:52:17,800 to a playoffs situation, because ultimately, like this is just about the postseason 766 00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:22,519 for Utah at this point, rotations consolidate and you're gonna play Donovan Mitchell forty 767 00:52:22,519 --> 00:52:25,159 minutes a game, You're gonna play Mike Conley thirty eight minutes a game. 768 00:52:25,679 --> 00:52:30,280 You aren't going to do that with Ruddy Gobert because the defensive intensity that he 769 00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:36,679 brings isn't fully scalable to that level and it just puts too much pressure on 770 00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:40,000 him. So I think that you have to do something that alleviates that burden 771 00:52:40,079 --> 00:52:45,880 a little bit. That's fair. And the final question would be, scenario 772 00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:50,599 Utah gets bounced in the first round of the playoffs, what are the chances 773 00:52:50,679 --> 00:52:52,480 that both Rudy Gobert and Donovan Mitchell are still on this team next season? 774 00:52:54,920 --> 00:53:00,159 More unlikely than likely? What are you gonna say? I think it's more 775 00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:02,519 unlikely than it is likely. So if I gave me the over under of 776 00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:09,280 you're I think I'm taking the under there. And it kills me too, 777 00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:14,559 because I love that pairing from a pure basketball standpoint. I love the two 778 00:53:14,599 --> 00:53:19,639 of them together, and it's why I can't stop myself from picking the Jazz 779 00:53:19,679 --> 00:53:23,360 to win series and championships each of the last few years. And it hasn't 780 00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:29,239 turned out well. But that's how it goes when you make playoff predictions, 781 00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:34,880 because a lot has to go right, and a lot is already going wrong 782 00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:37,480 for this Jazz team in a way that is going to prevent those expectations from 783 00:53:37,519 --> 00:53:44,199 existing this season. But failure after failure adds up, and ultimately winning is 784 00:53:44,199 --> 00:53:46,920 the only panacea, and they're they're probably not going to be winning. And 785 00:53:47,199 --> 00:53:53,239 if, as you're stipulating, a first round exit actually happens, then there's 786 00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:59,159 going to be too much pressure to do something. Yeah, yeah, you 787 00:53:59,159 --> 00:54:01,639 you have grown fond of picking the Jazz to win series. And I don't 788 00:54:01,639 --> 00:54:07,039 think Joe Angles's absence is the It is part of the impetus for this discussion, 789 00:54:07,079 --> 00:54:12,280 but this was a conversation. It's the proverbial straw that broke the camel's 790 00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:15,519 back, just because like now you need because you would have needed playmaking if 791 00:54:15,519 --> 00:54:17,760 you were trading Joe Angles. But now it's like whether or not you trade 792 00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:22,840 Joe angles. You need extra playmaking. Let's get to a few more questions 793 00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:27,880 here. The NBA Chicken asked the West standing seemed to have somewhat settled. 794 00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,239 Do you see much changing with who is in the top six and playing? 795 00:54:30,559 --> 00:54:36,119 You could almost say the same about the East and so the West right now? 796 00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:37,920 Phoenix, Golden State, Memphis, you taught Denver, Dallas are your 797 00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:43,360 six playoff teams. Let's start there. Would you predict anyone to fall out 798 00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:47,239 slash joint? Not really? I think I'm with you. There's I'm just 799 00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:50,760 not going to fall into the temptation for the Lakers. There's also a three 800 00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:52,599 and a half game gap between six and seven right now, which is fairly 801 00:54:52,599 --> 00:54:58,519 substantial at this point of the season. So you're either counting on the Clippers, 802 00:54:58,559 --> 00:55:01,239 who just don't have their top and players available, or the Timberwolves, 803 00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:05,639 who, as fun as they've been recently, that's still a big climb and 804 00:55:05,639 --> 00:55:07,840 a big leap for a young team to make. I don't trust the Lakers. 805 00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:13,079 The Trailblazers might as well throw in the towel here and beyond that we 806 00:55:13,159 --> 00:55:16,280 can stop right and I think two of the teams and the four of the 807 00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:20,480 teams in the play in territory right now, the Clippers and the Blazers, 808 00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:22,000 I think you can argue are going to end up being worse as the season 809 00:55:22,039 --> 00:55:27,159 goes on, just missing talent. The Lakers know they're just too far behind. 810 00:55:27,199 --> 00:55:29,679 And then if the Timberwolves do something, perhaps, but I'm gonna go 811 00:55:29,679 --> 00:55:31,440 with you and say you might even be able to lock in the order. 812 00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:37,599 I think maybe Memphis Utah has some jockeying left, but Utah is like quietly 813 00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:42,519 now three games back in the lost Colm of Memphis, so the order might 814 00:55:42,559 --> 00:55:45,679 be set. I was gonna say for the play in I'm not sold on 815 00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:50,400 the Blazers staying there, and I could see the Spurs or the Pelicans. 816 00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:52,440 I'm out on the Kings. It's just they could they could make a trade, 817 00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:54,559 not make a trade, blow it up, make a buy trade for 818 00:55:54,559 --> 00:56:00,280 Ben Simmons. I don't care San Antonio. And if New Orleans does get 819 00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:04,000 Zion back at any point, like they've been scrappy enough over the past month 820 00:56:04,079 --> 00:56:07,079 or so to make you think like, okay, is Dame coming back for 821 00:56:07,159 --> 00:56:09,559 Portland. They lost not little for the season. Yeah, this has been 822 00:56:09,599 --> 00:56:13,440 playing better so with Roco, But are they gonna make a selling trade? 823 00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:17,360 I think if we're ranking the likelihood for teams finishing in that ten spot, 824 00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:25,400 I might go Spurs, Pelicans, Kings, Blazers, Spurs Pelicans, Kings, 825 00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:29,320 Blazers. I'll probably put the Kings below the Blazers, and I'm gonna 826 00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:31,360 put the Pelicans above the Spurs just because, well, I guess it doesn't 827 00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:34,880 matter because they don't play Thaddeus Young anyway, and I'm stilling for the Pelicans, 828 00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:37,079 but the Spurs' feeling feeling reckless. If I'll look at the ease really 829 00:56:37,119 --> 00:56:40,039 quickly, the six teams right now, Chicago, Miami, Philadelphia, Cleveland, 830 00:56:40,039 --> 00:56:46,480 Milwaukee, Brooklyn, is anybody else leaving entering that fold? I could 831 00:56:46,599 --> 00:56:52,800 see Cleveland dropping out of it. I still get the sense that Cleveland is 832 00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:58,639 like a little bit of a paper tiger here where I buy so many of 833 00:56:58,679 --> 00:57:01,639 the pieces. But it also feel like what we've seen to this point is 834 00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:07,800 everything going right, aside from the Colin Sexton injury, like you're getting star 835 00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:13,519 level production out of Kevin Love and the Rubio injury. Garland has been unbelievable, 836 00:57:13,559 --> 00:57:16,519 Alan has been unbelievable, and they haven't gone through those dips that you 837 00:57:16,599 --> 00:57:21,840 typically see when players ascend to that level and are tasked with carrying so much 838 00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:25,079 responsibility. So I could see like a little bit of a late season malaise 839 00:57:25,199 --> 00:57:30,159 dropping them to seven or eight. But who is going to take over that 840 00:57:30,239 --> 00:57:36,039 spot, because I don't know how much more in season upside the Hornets have. 841 00:57:36,159 --> 00:57:38,159 I think the Raptors are, the Celtics are, The Hawks are the 842 00:57:38,159 --> 00:57:44,960 most likely ones there. The Hawks in particular are finally looking like they're playing 843 00:57:45,559 --> 00:57:49,840 fun basketball, like things are clicking, but they're also five and a half 844 00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:52,239 games back of Cleveland right now, and I don't know if that's just too 845 00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:57,000 much of a gap to close. I would frame it this way and East 846 00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:59,000 and look, if you're not going to pick Cleveland, you could say, 847 00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:00,880 if you want, those are gonna be six. Fine. If you're not 848 00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:04,679 going to pick Cleveland, you're picking Chicago, Miami, Joel and Beads team, 849 00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:09,039 Jannie's team, or the Nets, Nets or the closest of falling out 850 00:58:09,039 --> 00:58:13,000 of it. I think I might actually go with Toronto as the team with 851 00:58:13,039 --> 00:58:15,840 the best chance of leaping in. I'm just so higher on their upside. 852 00:58:15,079 --> 00:58:19,440 What I will say about the East I don't think this order is set. 853 00:58:19,719 --> 00:58:22,800 I do think the ten teams that we're going to see and slash my officers 854 00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:29,559 set, but I'm probably gonna go. I think Cleveland does finish sixth out 855 00:58:29,599 --> 00:58:31,760 of those top six teams, but does finish in the top six, and 856 00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:38,480 then I would probably go Atlanta, Toronto, Boston, Charlotte. Charlotte's defense 857 00:58:38,519 --> 00:58:42,119 has been a lot better of late, but I'm just curious whether it This 858 00:58:42,199 --> 00:58:45,360 is not It's not an insult to Charlotte. I just think that the other 859 00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:50,320 three teams, Toronto, Boston, and Atlanta clearly have more juice to squeeze 860 00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:53,280 here. I might like Charlotte better than Boston because I really think there's a 861 00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:58,519 chance Boston cells I'm not talking Marcus Marter Jalen Brown, but ducking the Tacks, 862 00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:00,559 maybe getting rid of Shrewder and their offense as flimsy as it is. 863 00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:04,400 But I mostly agree with the order, and I think more likely than not 864 00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:07,920 the six teams that are there. Order will change, sure, but I 865 00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:09,559 think those are probably the six teams that are gonna stay. I think so 866 00:59:09,599 --> 00:59:13,360 too. I'm just not as confident in that as I am in the West. 867 00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:17,519 I think, yeah, I'm probably I don't know if i'm I might 868 00:59:17,559 --> 00:59:21,480 be just equally confident at this point. No, I can't see it. 869 00:59:21,599 --> 00:59:23,800 I can't see it in the West, like Atlanta or Toronto could just go 870 00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:29,559 on a bender. Are you ruling out Atlanta winning ten games in a row 871 00:59:29,679 --> 00:59:31,440 and suddenly their fourth or fifth in the continent? Yeah, okay, Yeah, 872 00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:34,960 there are more there are more teams, There are more options when you 873 00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:37,039 look at Boston, Toronto, even Charlotte plus Atlanta. That's that's a great 874 00:59:37,039 --> 00:59:43,480 point. Spefy ask a wow question for a future mail back. Which MBA 875 00:59:43,559 --> 00:59:46,320 fan base do you think is the worst. I've been a Suns fan since 876 00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:50,440 I was five years old, and I don't think any team has fans that 877 00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:54,320 are more genuinely hateful towards an unappreciative of their home team than Phoenix. And 878 00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:58,400 so this is interesting question because I think what it's phrased. I actually like 879 00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:00,320 the way it's phrased. A lot of people want to know, like what 880 01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:06,159 fan bases do we hate interacting with? But He's species is sex essentially asking 881 01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:09,840 which fan base doesn't love their team enough? Right, That's how I interpreted 882 01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:15,960 it. Anyway, I don't know that I have the information to properly answer 883 01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:20,840 that question. That's to me, that's one of those where like we can 884 01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:24,760 gauge the fan bases that we like interacting with the least, but I don't 885 01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:32,159 embed myself within these fan base cultures enough to properly answer, Well, that 886 01:00:32,239 --> 01:00:36,199 was sort of That's what I'm saying, is like, which team which fan 887 01:00:36,199 --> 01:00:39,519 bases doesn't love their not meanest? Which fan base do you think doesn't appreciate 888 01:00:40,159 --> 01:00:44,599 like their team or it's too hard on their team? Phoenix, I don't 889 01:00:44,639 --> 01:00:46,280 know if that was the first one that's spreading to mind. I think their 890 01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:51,440 standards have definitely increased over the past couple of years, but that's natural given 891 01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:55,280 where they've been. Like I, that's a look, I've given this questions, 892 01:00:57,519 --> 01:01:01,000 so I'm kind of this is going to be this might be weird, 893 01:01:01,199 --> 01:01:07,239 but I kind of think that it's I don't even want to say this because 894 01:01:07,239 --> 01:01:09,719 it's very really in trouble for saying it. Do I say it? Should 895 01:01:09,719 --> 01:01:14,920 I say I don't have an answer? Maybe that's a cop out. No, 896 01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:19,440 I really just don't because I think it requires you to have such a 897 01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:23,639 working knowledge of how each fan base not just interacts publicly, but also privately 898 01:01:23,679 --> 01:01:28,639 because to me, these aren't like the public facing conversations. It's the two 899 01:01:28,639 --> 01:01:30,760 people who are watching the game and they're saying to each other like how much 900 01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:34,320 they hate their team and failing to appreciate it. And I just don't know 901 01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:38,880 that we're privy to those conversations. I think it's the Sixers. It might 902 01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:43,440 be the Heat, but like with the Sixers, because like that did come 903 01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:47,000 to mind because Philadelphia is so notorious about booing its own players. But to 904 01:01:47,079 --> 01:01:52,119 me, that also suggests a level of engagement and a level of standards that 905 01:01:52,199 --> 01:01:54,719 they expect their players to live up to. And if you don't believe in 906 01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:59,039 your team, if you hate your team, those don't exist. Like booing 907 01:01:59,119 --> 01:02:02,719 is a sign of passion. Is it not like you don't do something if 908 01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:06,480 you don't care, because if you don't care, you don't give a shit 909 01:02:06,639 --> 01:02:12,239 enough to boot. I was looking at it more from a perspective of overreacting 910 01:02:12,639 --> 01:02:16,639 to short term developments, where I do see an element. I haven't always 911 01:02:16,639 --> 01:02:22,559 seen it, but there's like a live and die subculture of Phoenix Suns Twitter 912 01:02:22,639 --> 01:02:25,320 that I feel like I've seen when stuff goes wrong or right and it could 913 01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:30,199 fluctuate wildly depending on what an outcome of a given game or a couple games 914 01:02:30,239 --> 01:02:36,800 is. And I feel that same zemblance. I've felt it from Toronto a 915 01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:38,519 little bit, but I do think they just tend to be more optimistic and 916 01:02:38,559 --> 01:02:42,519 think that they're overlooked the fans there, and they're for the most part, 917 01:02:42,519 --> 01:02:47,639 they're probably right. And then Denver is very much like their fan base may 918 01:02:47,639 --> 01:02:51,239 not be the biggest because it feels like interesting the Nuggets should be higher, 919 01:02:51,239 --> 01:02:52,800 but the ones who are loyal the Nuggets think they never get enough recognition, 920 01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:57,519 whereas Miami and Philly, I feel very much. And last season, like 921 01:02:57,559 --> 01:03:00,199 in Miami, with some of the stuff that'spo Is doing, all of a 922 01:03:00,239 --> 01:03:02,599 sudden, he was being questioned more or that Bamata Bio wasn't being aggressive enough 923 01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:07,280 because the heat weren't as dominant in the regular season as they were necessarily the 924 01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:10,559 season prior. And this season it's been more hunky dory because not that expectations 925 01:03:10,559 --> 01:03:14,760 were lower, but they're way deeper than I think anymore and thought, and 926 01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:17,440 then with the Sixers, outside of Joel and Bead, it doesn't feel like 927 01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:24,079 there's a consistent reaction or perspective or opinion of any player on that team. 928 01:03:24,119 --> 01:03:28,679 There's maybe Seth Curry probably comes closest. I won't even die into the Ben 929 01:03:28,679 --> 01:03:32,079 Simmon stuff. Like Tobias Harris has gone he's pariah right now, but he's 930 01:03:32,079 --> 01:03:36,039 also been beloved at points when he's not being asked to do too much on 931 01:03:36,159 --> 01:03:38,320 offense. I've even seem like the opinions of the Matisse fibe feels like they 932 01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:40,280 fluctuate. So I'm not trying to sing you a lot of fan base. 933 01:03:40,679 --> 01:03:44,519 I do feel like the Heat and the Sixers though, or the two teams 934 01:03:44,519 --> 01:03:46,719 that kind of sprang to mind for me. I thought Phoenix, a Sons 935 01:03:46,719 --> 01:03:50,840 fan, asking this, I thought it was interesting, And I do think 936 01:03:51,199 --> 01:03:53,119 what you also kind of alluded to, though, is that success can kind 937 01:03:53,159 --> 01:04:00,360 of foment some of this. Yeah, I think the the other potential answer 938 01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:03,719 here is the Lakers, just because there is a subsection of Lakers fandom that 939 01:04:03,719 --> 01:04:10,199 truly is knowledgeable about the team and passionate about the team. But they're probably 940 01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:15,119 the organization that has the largest amount of and I hate this word because I 941 01:04:15,159 --> 01:04:20,480 truly believe that it is possible to be a good casual basketball fan but casual 942 01:04:20,559 --> 01:04:25,440 in the sense that like they don't really care, like there's they're in it 943 01:04:25,559 --> 01:04:30,800 for the celebrity, They're in it for the status of rooting for the Lakers. 944 01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:35,440 So because there's such a tendency to think that every player available in the 945 01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:38,920 trade market is always going to go there, and that every role player is 946 01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:43,920 going to be a superstar and the championships are the expectation every year, I 947 01:04:43,960 --> 01:04:46,960 think that's a potential answer, but it doesn't encompass the entirety of the fan 948 01:04:47,039 --> 01:04:50,360 base because there are good Lakers fans. There are a lot of good Lakers 949 01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:56,360 fans. We just the bad Lakers fans tend to be amplified in a toxic 950 01:04:56,440 --> 01:05:00,280 way. Let's wrap up with these nuggets questions, and also shout out to 951 01:05:00,519 --> 01:05:03,440 Ryan, who had basically the same question as MBA Chicken. I had them 952 01:05:03,519 --> 01:05:06,519 highlighted together and then didn't name it. So MBA Chicken and Ryan asked about 953 01:05:06,519 --> 01:05:11,920 the East and West playoffs standings. Shouts to both of them. We'll start 954 01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:14,960 here. Let's see if we can get through these nuggets ones. We invariably 955 01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:18,159 have so many. Do any of these need to be looped together? So 956 01:05:18,599 --> 01:05:25,519 a lot of them are Yokic centric Surprise surprise, ocker Anthony asked, who's 957 01:05:25,679 --> 01:05:30,400 paying talking heads to discount Yoki's MVP. What's your best crackpot theory? I 958 01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:32,880 do want to I don't want to insert myself here because I know that I 959 01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:38,280 am not like the peak of national media. I have published two NBA MVP 960 01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:41,519 ladders in the past month. Yokich has been at the top. I've also 961 01:05:41,519 --> 01:05:45,679 seen him consistently mentioned on Twitter among certain national media members as one of the 962 01:05:45,679 --> 01:05:48,559 two or three most likely candidates. I think that's absolutely where he belongs. 963 01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:54,320 I don't watch enough sports debate TV, and by watch enough, I don't 964 01:05:54,360 --> 01:05:58,320 watch it at all to wonder how they're glossing over him. I have seen 965 01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:01,599 like Nick Wright with fighting some like the Nuggets record at one point, and 966 01:06:01,599 --> 01:06:04,559 that's things you can't do. But I do push back against the notion that 967 01:06:04,599 --> 01:06:11,599 if you think the answer is Yannis, if you think the answer is I 968 01:06:11,639 --> 01:06:14,079 know, Steph has fallen off, but he's still been important to Golden State. 969 01:06:14,119 --> 01:06:15,880 But like, if you think let's just let me use you honest, 970 01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:19,800 if yeah beat, if you if you think it's Embad or yannest or instead 971 01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:24,559 of yokis I don't think that would be called a crackpot theory. I do 972 01:06:24,719 --> 01:06:29,320 think that there was. It did feel like there was more resistance last year 973 01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:32,559 to picking Yokich than there should have been. I also think there's more resistance 974 01:06:32,599 --> 01:06:36,320 to him this year, but that it's in the grander context of we placed 975 01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:41,119 way too much fucking stock and team records for this award, and that that's 976 01:06:41,159 --> 01:06:43,000 just my read, honest, So I want to think at that out of 977 01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:47,280 the way there before you grab the talking Yokis right now is per draft Kings 978 01:06:47,599 --> 01:06:53,119 is third in MVP odds heading into games on January thirty. First, he's 979 01:06:53,159 --> 01:06:56,480 plus three eighty, Jannest is plus three hundred, and mbat is plus two 980 01:06:56,559 --> 01:06:59,960 twenty. What's interesting is Yokis was like twelve to one only a week ago. 981 01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:04,679 Yeah, it changes, it changes, It fluctuates, and like everyone 982 01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:12,480 has because there's no like true definition for MVP, everyone is going to have 983 01:07:12,559 --> 01:07:17,320 different takes, and anyone who's looking for something to complain about can amplify takes 984 01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:20,480 that don't agree with their line of thinking. But to me, like the 985 01:07:20,559 --> 01:07:27,840 odds are the cumulation of all of that, where this is where people are 986 01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:30,159 putting the money. This is where books are setting the money in order to 987 01:07:30,159 --> 01:07:33,840 make the money and all of that. So like that to me is more 988 01:07:33,880 --> 01:07:41,119 important than any one national analyst, national pundit who is excluding your favorite player 989 01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:46,079 from the conversation. Is Yokich a little bit more discredited? Probably, so 990 01:07:46,360 --> 01:07:53,440 like if he should be the favorite right now? In less team success is 991 01:07:53,960 --> 01:07:57,960 a huge impediment, which for some people it's going to be. And why 992 01:07:58,039 --> 01:08:00,880 that is, like how long do we have? Because I don't know that 993 01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:05,719 there's really a well defined answer. My theory, my crackpot theory here would 994 01:08:05,760 --> 01:08:13,280 be that it's just because the media in general ultimately wants to give it self 995 01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:18,359 importance. So when you have a player who is not American, who does 996 01:08:18,399 --> 01:08:23,359 not play a traditional style, who does not play the style that lends itself 997 01:08:23,359 --> 01:08:29,560 to traditional highlights. Because for all of Yoki's passing excellence and creative skilled plays, 998 01:08:29,560 --> 01:08:33,039 he's not throwing down thunderous dunks. He's not putting up these these transition 999 01:08:33,439 --> 01:08:39,800 coast to coast highlights. They're they're reliant on his ridiculous passing ability. Because 1000 01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:43,720 he came out of the second round, because he plays in a Denver market 1001 01:08:44,079 --> 01:08:47,920 that does again with the exception of the Nuggets. Diehards does tend to care 1002 01:08:48,039 --> 01:08:53,479 way more about football and hockey than basketball. For all of those reasons, 1003 01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:58,560 it feels like he is still somewhat of an outsider to this discussion of the 1004 01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:02,399 best player in the world, add us to NBA supremacy, to however you 1005 01:09:02,439 --> 01:09:05,800 want to phrase it, And I don't know that we've really had a player 1006 01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:11,720 who checks all of those boxes. You know, We've had non American players 1007 01:09:12,199 --> 01:09:15,319 win MVP, We've had second round picks go on to become the best player 1008 01:09:15,319 --> 01:09:20,319 in the world. We've had players who play non traditional games get recognition as 1009 01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:26,520 MVPs. But when all of that is happening together, I think that there 1010 01:09:26,600 --> 01:09:30,560 is a certain subconscious pushback from media members who are used to their takes being 1011 01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:38,279 validated by what actually happens and being unwilling to look outside those norms to recognize 1012 01:09:38,359 --> 01:09:41,720 a talent for what it is. But again, like I think you could 1013 01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:46,079 have this conversation about anyone any given season, because there are so many prominent 1014 01:09:46,159 --> 01:09:51,119 voices across the NBABDIA landscape who have differing opinions. If you want to find 1015 01:09:51,840 --> 01:09:57,600 someone who is championing Yokich right now on a worldwide scale, you can find 1016 01:09:57,640 --> 01:10:00,520 them. If you want to find someone who's not, you can find them. 1017 01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:03,119 And the same goes for every player every season because there is such a 1018 01:10:03,279 --> 01:10:09,920 wide swath of takes and they don't all align. Because if we if the 1019 01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:14,760 NBA came out and said, Okay, team success should matter thirty percent and 1020 01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:18,520 narrative should matter twenty percent, then we're going to have we're going to have 1021 01:10:18,720 --> 01:10:24,520 a more consistent evaluation of MVP. But if you ask, like, even 1022 01:10:24,600 --> 01:10:30,479 between us, we have different ways of thinking about the MVP award because there 1023 01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:33,279 is no quantification of it, and we can attempt to do that, but 1024 01:10:33,439 --> 01:10:40,479 still we're applying subjective valuations to different elements of the conversation. And even if 1025 01:10:40,520 --> 01:10:45,359 we include team success, is that rating is that win loss record? Is 1026 01:10:45,399 --> 01:10:46,960 a team success with that player on the court? How much do we hold 1027 01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:49,960 their teammates against them? How much do their teammates prop them up? Because 1028 01:10:49,960 --> 01:10:54,359 there aren't defined answers to these questions, of course, there's not going to 1029 01:10:54,399 --> 01:11:00,159 be consistency. So I get why Nuggets fans feel aggrieved about this because it 1030 01:11:00,199 --> 01:11:03,520 has been fairly clear from a statistical perspective that Yoki is playing like the best 1031 01:11:03,560 --> 01:11:06,840 player in the world. It has been for quite some time. I also 1032 01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:14,640 get why there's pushback to that aggrievedness, because there are people who are championing 1033 01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:18,039 his cause, who are talking about how ridiculously good he is, and that's 1034 01:11:18,079 --> 01:11:21,520 all that dichotomy is always going to exist. The only thing I'll add, 1035 01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:26,479 because that was a fantastic from all rant, They're like, we need a 1036 01:11:26,479 --> 01:11:30,399 simonym with an f some for some alliteration there is. The other thing is 1037 01:11:30,439 --> 01:11:34,600 just too that if you're making a case for someone who's not Yokich, it 1038 01:11:34,600 --> 01:11:40,159 turns into you invariably pointing out why Yokich isn't the MVP, and that's how 1039 01:11:40,159 --> 01:11:42,439 the discussion gets framed. A lot is because you have to make a case 1040 01:11:42,479 --> 01:11:45,399 for others. And I don't think it's always necessary, but I do think 1041 01:11:45,399 --> 01:11:49,479 the inherent risk is you diminish or it's not even diminished, but you're pointing 1042 01:11:49,479 --> 01:11:54,640 out the flaws in others cases while you're making the case for why you've picked 1043 01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:59,399 who you have. And I don't think that slant is always disingenuous, but 1044 01:11:59,399 --> 01:12:02,039 but it can me And if there's a let's say, a common second candidate, 1045 01:12:02,079 --> 01:12:05,119 which I think him beat has come up a lot lately. You're gonna 1046 01:12:05,199 --> 01:12:10,279 end up pointing out like why he's more valuable than Yokich to certain people, 1047 01:12:10,800 --> 01:12:14,760 and that's going to make it seem like Yokich's getting the like short shrifted there. 1048 01:12:15,600 --> 01:12:17,439 I want to shout out friend of the podcast, Brian to Porak here 1049 01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:24,560 because he had a great exchange on Twitter this January thirty, first date that 1050 01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:30,239 we're recording this. He and Ryan Blackburn, who is a Nuggets writer who 1051 01:12:30,279 --> 01:12:34,840 is the site manager for Denver Stiffs. Ryan had had tweeted about his updated 1052 01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:41,079 MVP ladder and how Yokich was at the top, and Brian responded that he 1053 01:12:41,199 --> 01:12:46,399 is also writing about this and has the same the same take. So after 1054 01:12:46,479 --> 01:12:51,279 a back and forth, Brian said, I'm just trying to enjoy both incredible 1055 01:12:51,319 --> 01:12:57,039 players because he's a Sixers fan, referring to Joel Embiad and Yokich instead of 1056 01:12:57,079 --> 01:13:00,159 only one of them, And to me, like, that's where we need 1057 01:13:00,199 --> 01:13:04,600 to be striving to get as NBA fans, as enjoyers of this sport. 1058 01:13:05,199 --> 01:13:11,159 Is not denigrating one player to prop up another, because your MVP case for 1059 01:13:11,279 --> 01:13:15,760 Yokich does not need to mention a single player who is not on the Nuggets. 1060 01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:20,119 Your MVP case for Joel Mbid, which can be totally valid, does 1061 01:13:20,199 --> 01:13:24,920 not need to mention a single player who's not on the seventy six ers. 1062 01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:29,119 They are both such incredible basketball players, and the same goes for Janis and 1063 01:13:29,119 --> 01:13:33,000 whoever else you want to throw into this conversation that you can and should make 1064 01:13:33,079 --> 01:13:38,600 those cases appealing only to their merits instead of trying to put down other players 1065 01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:45,000 to make those points. It is possible to enjoy two rival players in unique 1066 01:13:45,239 --> 01:13:47,359 ways. We should all strive to do it. So shout out to Brian 1067 01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:53,920 for actually embodying that practice. This might be this question is going to risk 1068 01:13:54,039 --> 01:14:00,079 us diminishing Yokitch in some way. But who Hardwood brain? They think their 1069 01:14:00,159 --> 01:14:03,079 name is Mark? Is it too early to ask if Nicole Yoki should be 1070 01:14:03,079 --> 01:14:08,560 in a conversation for the best big man ever? Yeah? It is. 1071 01:14:08,920 --> 01:14:14,039 I mean we're still like Will Chamberlain Kareem abdul Jabar and it's Bill Russell like 1072 01:14:15,239 --> 01:14:21,800 exactly because we need to we need to pad that more. Will Chamberlain averaged 1073 01:14:23,079 --> 01:14:29,039 five hundred points a game for an entire season. He's like the was it 1074 01:14:29,119 --> 01:14:32,239 a different era? Yes, Kareem Abdul Jabbar is the all time scoring leader. 1075 01:14:32,439 --> 01:14:38,279 He maintained his excellence from the time that the Milwaukee Bucks won a title 1076 01:14:38,399 --> 01:14:43,439 in nineteen seventy one and even before that to the Lakers title winning teams in 1077 01:14:43,479 --> 01:14:46,520 the late eighties. You know, there there are so many players that Kimilaju 1078 01:14:46,600 --> 01:14:49,840 On, David Robinson, Shaquille O'Neal, like, the list goes on and 1079 01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:56,399 on, where Yokich just ceiling right now. If you want to talk about 1080 01:14:56,399 --> 01:15:00,680 whether he's having the best peak for a big man considering the compe editiveness of 1081 01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:03,880 this era and the rule changes in the style of play, changes that have 1082 01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:10,279 prompted biggs not being as end vogue, then yes, I think you can 1083 01:15:10,319 --> 01:15:14,760 make a convincing argument the level at which he's playing right now deserves to be 1084 01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:18,479 put alongside all of those other Biggs in the pantheon of basketball greatness. But 1085 01:15:18,920 --> 01:15:24,319 we need to see it for a lot longer before we're talking about Nicola Yokich 1086 01:15:24,399 --> 01:15:29,640 being on the Mount Rushmore of NBA big man the I would agree with that, 1087 01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:31,840 thinking it is wild that we can at least consider it without it sounding 1088 01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:34,720 ridiculous, because that's how good he is, but I don't know that you 1089 01:15:34,760 --> 01:15:38,520 can making a case right now would be hard. I think we need to 1090 01:15:38,560 --> 01:15:41,479 see his peak just and it will be extended, but like we need to 1091 01:15:41,479 --> 01:15:45,159 get to a point where we can look back further on his peak. If 1092 01:15:45,159 --> 01:15:49,479 that makes any sense. It does absolutely. Let's love these two last questions 1093 01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:55,079 Nuggets questions together since they're kind of the same thing. Kevin asked, what's 1094 01:15:55,079 --> 01:15:58,840 a realistic ceiling for the Nuggets this year? Assuming Jamal Murray doesn't come back 1095 01:15:58,840 --> 01:16:01,560 before the playoffs? My additive here would be they were granted an injury exception 1096 01:16:01,600 --> 01:16:04,680 from Michael Porter Jr. It just doesn't mean that he's out for the year, 1097 01:16:05,039 --> 01:16:09,079 but it does it does fact that he's out for the year. And 1098 01:16:09,119 --> 01:16:14,399 then this one came from t JR. Asked after Wednesday in Utah, Denver 1099 01:16:14,439 --> 01:16:16,600 will have the easiest remaining schedule in the NBA with nineteen home games in twelve 1100 01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:20,399 orrold games. Is yo kids really going to drag that team to the third 1101 01:16:20,399 --> 01:16:24,199 seed again? So maybe start with the ladder? Where do you think? 1102 01:16:24,479 --> 01:16:26,760 Well, I guess they're the same thing. It's like, what is Denver's 1103 01:16:26,800 --> 01:16:31,079 ceiling? As is no more substantial editions including Jamal Murray. Look right right 1104 01:16:31,079 --> 01:16:34,600 now as we're recording this, Denver is five and a half games back of 1105 01:16:34,680 --> 01:16:40,720 the Memphis Grizzlies for the third game. It is only one game back of 1106 01:16:40,760 --> 01:16:44,279 the Utah Jazz for the four seed. I don't think that there's enough time 1107 01:16:44,399 --> 01:16:46,359 left in this season, given the level at which Memphis is playing and the 1108 01:16:46,399 --> 01:16:50,479 fact that the Grizzlies could continue to get better as these young players get even 1109 01:16:50,520 --> 01:16:55,920 more time on the court for Denver to match or surpass Memphis. I do 1110 01:16:56,000 --> 01:17:00,319 think it is eminently possible that Denver ends up posting a first round playoffs series 1111 01:17:00,359 --> 01:17:03,039 by virtue of having the number four seat, they could win the title. 1112 01:17:04,039 --> 01:17:09,399 Are they are in that realm of teams where I don't think that they should 1113 01:17:09,399 --> 01:17:14,800 be a favorite. But you should not rule out the ability of this team 1114 01:17:14,880 --> 01:17:16,960 to go on a run that results in the team holding up to Larry O'Brian 1115 01:17:17,039 --> 01:17:20,720 Trophy at the end of the year, especially because that first question presumes that 1116 01:17:21,000 --> 01:17:24,720 even if Jamal Murray is out for the regular season, he's going to play 1117 01:17:24,720 --> 01:17:28,600 in the playoffs, and if you get anything out of him, Yokich can 1118 01:17:28,640 --> 01:17:31,279 single handedly win a series against just about anyone right now, Like, he's 1119 01:17:32,039 --> 01:17:36,039 pretty darn matchup proof. There is not a single player who has been able 1120 01:17:36,079 --> 01:17:42,880 to completely neutralize him time and time again. So given how he's playing, 1121 01:17:43,600 --> 01:17:46,600 this team could beat anyone. So I don't know that I want to rule 1122 01:17:46,680 --> 01:17:53,680 out a title ceiling. I don't think it's particularly likely, but I would 1123 01:17:53,680 --> 01:17:59,199 put I would put Denver in that category with Phoenix, Golden State, Memphis, 1124 01:17:59,720 --> 01:18:04,159 maybe not even Utah right now, Miami, Chicago, Philadelphia, Milwaukee, 1125 01:18:04,239 --> 01:18:09,600 Brooklyn of teams where like, yeah, if you told me that they 1126 01:18:09,640 --> 01:18:12,840 were the champion at the end of this season, I wouldn't be totally shocked. 1127 01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:15,640 My jaw wouldn't hit the floor. I'd be a little surprised. But 1128 01:18:15,680 --> 01:18:20,159 I think it's realistic. They need to want more back to have that title 1129 01:18:20,199 --> 01:18:24,479 ceiling. That is in the class. But again, I think the way 1130 01:18:24,520 --> 01:18:29,359 that question was framed presumes that he is available for the postseason. If he's 1131 01:18:29,359 --> 01:18:30,960 not available for the regular season, he's not available for the postseason. How 1132 01:18:30,960 --> 01:18:33,359 I review it, because why are you bringing him back at that point? 1133 01:18:33,359 --> 01:18:36,159 You need to bring him back before the playoff little a little ramp up periods, 1134 01:18:36,199 --> 01:18:39,640 and I do think he brought up a good point about how they're kind 1135 01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:42,199 of I don't want to say maxed out, but the regular season ceiling is 1136 01:18:42,239 --> 01:18:45,720 tough because they've played you know, you want to look at their home games 1137 01:18:45,720 --> 01:18:47,840 and whatnot, fine, but like they've played about the middle of the road 1138 01:18:47,920 --> 01:18:53,199 difficulty of schedule now, so they're not actually going to have the easiest schedule 1139 01:18:53,319 --> 01:18:56,880 when looking at their opponents. So there will be nights where they just feel 1140 01:18:56,920 --> 01:19:00,199 shorthanded or are facing really good opponents and just lose. I do think if 1141 01:19:00,439 --> 01:19:03,640 if you're gonna tell me Jamal Murray comes back, if you can get him 1142 01:19:03,680 --> 01:19:08,359 twelve to fifteen games in the regular season, I will say they're seiling as 1143 01:19:08,359 --> 01:19:10,720 a title ceiling. If we're something he doesn't play for the rest of the 1144 01:19:10,800 --> 01:19:13,600 year, I think they can win a playoff series. I just think once 1145 01:19:13,640 --> 01:19:15,960 you get into what teams they would probably be facing in round two, whether 1146 01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:18,840 it's you know, is it a Memphis, is it a Phoenix, is 1147 01:19:18,880 --> 01:19:21,920 it a Golden State, is it a Utah? Because without Jamal Murray, 1148 01:19:21,920 --> 01:19:25,920 I'm not picking them against Utah. It would be really tough. But that's 1149 01:19:25,920 --> 01:19:30,800 also a incredibly impressive ceiling to have without not just Jamal Murray, but then 1150 01:19:30,840 --> 01:19:33,760 also your third most important player in Michael Porter Jr. And that speaks to 1151 01:19:33,800 --> 01:19:38,119 a lot Denver. Their depth has been an issue, but like what Aaron 1152 01:19:38,159 --> 01:19:40,479 Gordon has been able to do for them, And then Yokich says, it 1153 01:19:40,520 --> 01:19:43,840 says more about Yokish than anyone who the Hillary kidding, But that would be 1154 01:19:43,880 --> 01:19:46,239 where I'm at if you tell me Jamal Murray gets any sort of like semi 1155 01:19:46,479 --> 01:19:51,039 real regular season sample size. Denver's title ceiling is intact without MPJA. If 1156 01:19:51,039 --> 01:19:55,159 he's not around at all, as his MPa is not around at all, 1157 01:19:55,439 --> 01:19:57,920 I'll give them they'll win a playoff series. I don't even care about the 1158 01:19:57,960 --> 01:20:00,199 seeding because, like you said, I do think Yokich is good eno the 1159 01:20:00,239 --> 01:20:02,119 beat pretty much anyone. No, you don't want to go up against Golden 1160 01:20:02,119 --> 01:20:04,960 State or Phoenix in round one. That would be the the caveat there. 1161 01:20:05,159 --> 01:20:08,319 I do want to end here really quickly because we went through a lot of 1162 01:20:08,399 --> 01:20:13,880 nuggets stuff. This is the final question from Salacious b Crunch, and it's 1163 01:20:13,920 --> 01:20:17,560 also a Chigo's question as well because they're both Spurs questions related. Salatious beat 1164 01:20:17,600 --> 01:20:21,000 Crunch asked what move, what move should the Spurs make before the deadline. 1165 01:20:21,199 --> 01:20:25,119 White Derek White feels out of place in the roster with his combination of skills 1166 01:20:25,279 --> 01:20:29,600 and contraction making valuable to teams. Should they be looking to go younger for 1167 01:20:29,760 --> 01:20:32,680 younger talent and picks, or consolidating players into a running mate for Murray and 1168 01:20:32,760 --> 01:20:35,359 Achiego's follow up question to that, I think it was an actual reply, 1169 01:20:35,560 --> 01:20:39,720 was is dejan Murray an All Star caliber player? I'm gonna let you take 1170 01:20:39,720 --> 01:20:45,039 the latter one first. Yeah, no, Muller, dejon Te Murray is 1171 01:20:45,119 --> 01:20:48,520 unquestionably an All Star caliber player. Whether he gets in. It's a little 1172 01:20:48,520 --> 01:20:51,880 tougher now that Andrew Wiggins has taken one of the spots in the Western Conference 1173 01:20:53,560 --> 01:20:58,199 and that conference ultimately is still pretty deep. But the RPR MVP predictor that 1174 01:20:58,199 --> 01:21:02,119 we use that NBA math does currently have Dejanta Murray not just earning a wildcard 1175 01:21:02,199 --> 01:21:05,520 spot, but actually one of the top two guard reserve spots. I think 1176 01:21:05,520 --> 01:21:10,960 that's partially because Devin Booker and Chris Paul are splitting so many of the big 1177 01:21:10,960 --> 01:21:14,840 time stats and Phoenix that both of their cases are falling a little bit by 1178 01:21:14,840 --> 01:21:18,640 the wayside. Because Luka don Chich's Mavericks fall short in the team's success category 1179 01:21:18,720 --> 01:21:21,359 to this point, so he's climbing a little bit. So I don't think 1180 01:21:21,359 --> 01:21:25,920 he's a favorite. He probably won't even make the team because of all those 1181 01:21:25,960 --> 01:21:30,479 more prominent names, and because with that kind of player, we tend to 1182 01:21:30,479 --> 01:21:34,159 see the All Star recognition come in year two, where year one establishes them 1183 01:21:34,199 --> 01:21:39,079 at that level. Year two is when the coach is actually validated. Murray 1184 01:21:39,159 --> 01:21:43,319 is one hundred percent an All Star caliber player. Let's make that perfectly clear, 1185 01:21:43,560 --> 01:21:46,439 regardless of whether that accolade is actually attached to his resume by the end 1186 01:21:46,479 --> 01:21:49,800 of the season. I don't think that changes. I don't expect him to 1187 01:21:49,840 --> 01:21:54,159 get in though. And now I'll let you talk about trades. I'm going 1188 01:21:54,239 --> 01:21:56,920 to add something to Murray. This is more of a hypothetical. If he 1189 01:21:57,079 --> 01:22:02,119 had a shooting season like Marcus Smart did in twenty nineteen twenty, where Marcus 1190 01:22:02,159 --> 01:22:08,439 Smart shot forty point one percent on two point five pull up three point attempts 1191 01:22:08,439 --> 01:22:11,840 per game, like eighty percent in the last second of the shot clock, 1192 01:22:13,319 --> 01:22:16,920 I don't care if he let's just say he shot Maybe this is if he 1193 01:22:16,960 --> 01:22:23,479 shot like thirty seven percent on two or thirty six percent on three off the 1194 01:22:23,560 --> 01:22:27,920 dribble three point attempts per game. Where does Gejante Murray rank as are we 1195 01:22:28,039 --> 01:22:30,119 talking about like a top twenty five, top twenty player at that point because 1196 01:22:30,119 --> 01:22:34,159 of everything else that he does. If that number is too high as in 1197 01:22:34,880 --> 01:22:40,239 like as in we're talking like top fifteen, wild to think about. But 1198 01:22:40,319 --> 01:22:44,800 obviously that's a fairly substantial skill to pick up for trades we did. You 1199 01:22:44,800 --> 01:22:46,439 can check out our YouTube clip. We talked about what the Spurs should do 1200 01:22:46,479 --> 01:22:50,119 and buy seller hold that is up. I think they should sell and they 1201 01:22:50,159 --> 01:22:53,520 should be looking to get they're not. They don't have a ton of extra 1202 01:22:53,560 --> 01:22:55,880 first round picks. If they have that extra first round or from Chicago, 1203 01:22:56,279 --> 01:22:59,399 and they are sort of the Derek White thing. I would keep Murray if 1204 01:22:59,399 --> 01:23:02,960 a consolidation trade presented itself, where like if you could get a Ben Simmons 1205 01:23:03,039 --> 01:23:05,960 without giving up de Jean Day Murray, I might consider it, But how 1206 01:23:06,000 --> 01:23:10,560 many picks are giving up in that situation. I'm firmly in the camp of 1207 01:23:10,920 --> 01:23:13,279 look at what you could get for if you get anything, not only for 1208 01:23:13,319 --> 01:23:15,439 Thaddy as Young, but even a Yaka Peartle, even though he's so cheap, 1209 01:23:16,199 --> 01:23:18,279 Is there anyone who wants to take a flyer on Lonnie Walker is going 1210 01:23:18,319 --> 01:23:21,039 to be restrictive free agent, And I think Derek White has sort of been 1211 01:23:21,119 --> 01:23:25,920 like the baseline for a lot of these questions. I'm not saying I one 1212 01:23:26,000 --> 01:23:30,000 hundred percent move him, but the contract here, Derek White seems to be 1213 01:23:30,039 --> 01:23:32,920 like a subtly divisive player, but him having three more years left on his 1214 01:23:33,000 --> 01:23:35,479 contract at sub twenty million a year, I think it averages out to like 1215 01:23:35,479 --> 01:23:41,039 seventeen. If there's like a situation where a contender will give you no damaging 1216 01:23:41,079 --> 01:23:45,199 salary and then like two first round picks or the equivalent in prospects, Like 1217 01:23:45,239 --> 01:23:48,239 if Atlanta or Phoenix was want to do something, I think I would move 1218 01:23:48,319 --> 01:23:53,199 him because I don't like him and Murray together long term, and I think 1219 01:23:53,199 --> 01:23:57,760 that White is better than having someone who you just stagger from your best player. 1220 01:23:57,760 --> 01:23:59,760 I don't think you're obligated to move you want to make that clear, 1221 01:24:00,079 --> 01:24:03,079 but I would absolutely be open to moving Derek White. And also just like 1222 01:24:03,960 --> 01:24:08,319 this doesn't have to factor in tw it, but like having Devin Vassel there, 1223 01:24:08,640 --> 01:24:11,479 do you like Josh Primo long term? Like there's a lot of like 1224 01:24:11,640 --> 01:24:15,520 non like, I'll call him swingman like there, Devin Vassell could definitely be 1225 01:24:15,520 --> 01:24:18,760 a wing What is Keldon Johnson like? He's like a swing man big. 1226 01:24:19,039 --> 01:24:24,039 It's just so so there are enough bodies in like that. That's certain. 1227 01:24:24,079 --> 01:24:27,399 That rotation, that part of the rotation where I think you could get away 1228 01:24:27,439 --> 01:24:30,840 with moving Derek White. And he's also on the older end for the timeline 1229 01:24:30,840 --> 01:24:33,439 that the Spurser are at, so he would absolutely be on the table for 1230 01:24:33,479 --> 01:24:38,520 me, and my asking price would be like salary that doesn't hurt me and 1231 01:24:38,520 --> 01:24:43,800 then two first round picks or the equivalent in prospects. My slightly unrelated follow 1232 01:24:43,840 --> 01:24:48,439 up is I couldn't help but think about how unfathomable it is that we are 1233 01:24:48,479 --> 01:24:53,640 recording this ten days out from the trade deadline, that this is a mail 1234 01:24:53,680 --> 01:24:57,880 bag episode, and that I'm pretty sure that that was the first time Ben 1235 01:24:57,920 --> 01:25:02,720 Simmons's name was mentioned, like if anything, if anything, indicates how much 1236 01:25:02,880 --> 01:25:10,600 that situation has spiraled beyond comprehension. There it is. I will say we 1237 01:25:10,640 --> 01:25:13,920 mentioned Ben Simon is quite a bit on the episodes from last week, but 1238 01:25:14,000 --> 01:25:16,319 yeah, that is that's not this episode, though, fair enough and kudos 1239 01:25:16,359 --> 01:25:19,199 to our listeners were not only asking about trades. We'll have trade content because 1240 01:25:19,239 --> 01:25:21,760 the deadline so close, but it was fun to like kind of take We 1241 01:25:21,800 --> 01:25:24,840 had some, but it was nice to take a little bit of a break 1242 01:25:24,880 --> 01:25:27,880 from that. That'll do it for us. Thank you all for your questions. 1243 01:25:27,880 --> 01:25:30,359 You can always submit them to us. You'll see the tweets out on 1244 01:25:30,399 --> 01:25:33,439 Twitter, dm me at Dana Valley Fava, l E. Adams on Twitter 1245 01:25:33,439 --> 01:25:38,600 at FROMBO zero nine. Follow the podcast at Hardwood Knox, follow our YouTube 1246 01:25:38,680 --> 01:25:42,399 channel YouTube dot com Hardwood Knox, search us, we'll come up. Join 1247 01:25:42,479 --> 01:25:45,399 our discord. The link is in the podcast player. We might eventually pump 1248 01:25:45,399 --> 01:25:46,960 it a little bit more on on social media, but we want to let 1249 01:25:46,960 --> 01:25:50,880 the like the most loyal listeners in there first and also for both of us 1250 01:25:50,920 --> 01:25:54,359 get a feel for how we're we're going to use it. We're already having 1251 01:25:54,359 --> 01:25:57,680 a lot of fun in there, and you get priority mail bad questions at 1252 01:25:57,760 --> 01:26:00,800 this point. So again, the link is in the bio to Hardward Knox 1253 01:26:00,880 --> 01:26:04,159 is discord player. Follow us on Instagram at Hardward Underscore Knox, and most 1254 01:26:04,159 --> 01:26:06,760 importantly, if you've not done so or if this is your first time listening 1255 01:26:06,760 --> 01:26:11,880 to us, throw us that permanent subscription wherever you get your podcast iTunes, 1256 01:26:11,880 --> 01:26:15,399 Spotify, Google Play, wherever at this point, and whether you use iTunes 1257 01:26:15,520 --> 01:26:20,119 or not, help us use our ratings or standings in the NBA charts, 1258 01:26:20,159 --> 01:26:24,159 basketball charts, sports charts, whatever. Throw us a five star rating, 1259 01:26:24,439 --> 01:26:28,159 write or review whatever you want in it. We really super duper incredibly appreciate 1260 01:26:28,199 --> 01:26:30,960 those. And Adam is raising his hands so he will say one more thing, 1261 01:26:32,239 --> 01:26:35,079 Yeah, before we turn it back to Dan for the shout out, 1262 01:26:35,119 --> 01:26:38,199 I just want to let everyone know, like, if you've made it this 1263 01:26:38,239 --> 01:26:44,039 far in the podcast, please consider looking at the expanded Sportsmaths Network. Me 1264 01:26:44,319 --> 01:26:47,640 and our technical director at NBA Math, Our June, have been working hard 1265 01:26:47,760 --> 01:26:53,720 to start launching the overall Sports Math Network website. It is still in progress. 1266 01:26:53,760 --> 01:26:57,279 It is eventually going to host a lot of the stuff that we currently 1267 01:26:57,279 --> 01:27:00,600 do on NBA Math. It's going to have golf stuff, it's going to 1268 01:27:00,680 --> 01:27:01,960 have hockey stuff, it's going to have baseball stuff. It's going to have 1269 01:27:01,960 --> 01:27:05,359 football stuff and of course basketball stuff. If any of that interests you, 1270 01:27:05,880 --> 01:27:11,239 go to the NBA Math page. Go to the Sports Math Network page on 1271 01:27:11,279 --> 01:27:15,279 Twitter, at sports math Net and just look at the different accounts that are 1272 01:27:15,399 --> 01:27:18,159 circulating there, because we are starting to do more stuff and we are going 1273 01:27:18,199 --> 01:27:20,760 to start to push that a little bit harder. So if you want to 1274 01:27:20,800 --> 01:27:26,000 be aware of when the actual website is going to launch, you'll want to 1275 01:27:26,039 --> 01:27:29,399 stay there for all the updates. We are targeting something right around the Super 1276 01:27:29,439 --> 01:27:32,119 Bowl, which is shockingly close, so it is right around the corner. 1277 01:27:32,479 --> 01:27:35,680 And with that, I'll turn it back to Dan. As always, the 1278 01:27:35,960 --> 01:27:40,319 I think it's it's the NBA Math Handler or the Sportsmath Handler. Both are 1279 01:27:40,359 --> 01:27:45,319 always copy and pasted into our into your podcast descriptions, so check that out. 1280 01:27:45,319 --> 01:27:46,960 That's the easiest way to follow and keep up with everything. Until next 1281 01:27:46,960 --> 01:27:49,319 time, though, we'll give you with the shout out to the one the 1282 01:27:49,439 --> 01:27:55,600 only, the legend would be unbeatable if he had four clones pus himself on 1283 01:27:55,640 --> 01:27:57,720 a basketball team, Frank Niokare