What is a fellow thermonuclear afors I am Dan the Valley coming. Yeah you
with what was an unplanned podcast, It's going to be a podcast all the
same. Before we get started about having an honest discussion about the New York
Knicks, I'm just given the recent reports that have come out via the Daily
News and also a most notably fredcasts the Athletic of how they're sort of approaching
the unpicture started trade season. Just my usual reminder to continue subscribing to us
if you've never checked this out before. If you're on YouTube and you're watching
me ramble right now, hit the sub button, like comment, help the
algorithm of us back. Also, if you're on Apple, Spotify, Stitcher,
Google, wherever you get your podcast, and you're just happing to check
us out for the first time, please hit that sub button and do both.
Be on YouTube, subscribe to the actual pod. Follow us on all
the socials, really trying to grow those out. TikTok, Instagram, Twitter
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on Instagram and join our discord. Lots of fun in there. Discord link
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it for some reason that doesn't work. That is about it, and this
is not a housekeeping note that's coming up. This is the meat and potatoes
of everything. Brittany Grinder coming home, fucking awesome, super static about that.
Haven't talked a lot about it on this podcast because I'm not an expert
in foreign policy and imprisonment abroad. But it was clearly unjust and I was
always kind of, you know, I saw David Dennis Junior say this around
the horn. I was always kind of reluctant to I had retweeted some stuff,
but I didn't want anything. And it wasn't just a matter of it
coming off performative, but I didn't want stuff out there to where you think
it could actually actively hurt or impeed discussion. Where it was people, for
instance, people using the Black Lives Matter hashtag when they were posting there,
you know, all black amatars or whatever. And then there were people that
came out and said, hey, you know, you're doing this as a
display of support or to be performative or whatever, but you're actually fucking up
the hashtag when it has meaningful shit there and this was different from that.
But I didn't want to, like if anything seen on social media could sort
of be used to skew against the case or angry people, I just didn't
want to. I was, so I was. And it's also important I
think, is me just because I'm fucking white and male and like the most
overrun voice in this, Like there's too many voices that look and sound like
mind this injury. Maybe not sound because I'm nasally as shit. But you
catch my drift there, and it was more about hey listening and consuming the
information. Oh yeah, I'm just super excited that she gets to come home,
that she gets to escape the ten months held that she has been in
in Russia. I hope that she's able to heal from this physically, mentally,
emotionally. I hope she's able to readjust to life here some semblance of
normality, to be with her family and friends, to be huge her.
But she's also coming back to a country where this is like a split reaction
to her coming home that there are people out there that I saw that don't
think that we should have brokered her released this is going to lead to more
Americans being imprisoned abroad, that you know, we chose her over Paul Paul
Whelan, which just seems to be way inaccurate. His brother was it,
Zach Wheelan, which was talking to David Wheelan excuse me, was talking to
MBC News and says, we don't begrudge miss Grinder her freedom. As I
have often remarked, Brittany's in Paul's cases were never really intertwined. Has always
been a strong possibility one might have been freed without the other other. And
so to hear that from him, I think that certainly matters here. There's
definitely a discussion to be had about how celebrity plays a role into this.
But as of right now, like, we have a black member of the
lgbt Q I A plus community coming home, and I think that's really just
super important and something to be celebrated. And we can also admit that we
need to have the discourse on just unjust imprisonment here and then also abroad,
Like, yeah, there's a conversation that we had about that. It has
nothing to do with Britney Ryder coming home, Like that just objectively deserves to
be celebrated. So I'm just super stoked for her to see this end and
like, yes, it would it would be great to see Paul Wheeler Paul
Wheeland come home as well. In what is objectively the worst segue ever,
let's talk about the Knicks. Originally wasn't going to record a podcast on this,
but just the reaction that I got to some trade ideas that I posted
on bleacher Report in response to a report from the Athletics spread Cats about how
the Knicks are sort of approaching the deadline or the unofficial start of trade season.
It rankled me enough, and in the grand scheme of things like this
doesn't matter and I can take it and it's part of the job description.
But like, the reaction was so filled with rage in my dms on the
br app and Twitter and in my mentions on the br app and Twitter that
I've all they need to kind of talk about it. And so the report
from Fred Katz said that league sources have noted the Knicks are active on trade
calls leading up to the December fifteenth, which is when most of the players
who signed new contracts this season are eligible who moved, as Bobby Marks already
noted I think seventy three percent of the league delis are able to be traded
now, and then number jumps up to eighty nine percent on December fifteen.
You don't always see deals happen right away there, but that is sort of
a big hallmark. Kats mentioned Evan Fournier manual quickly Cam Reddish who's now out
of the rotation, and Derrick Ross who's also out of the rotation, as
the Zeven Fournier, as the names to watch most closely, and he also
noted that New York hasn't show any interest in attaching a first round pick to
Evan Fournier to get rid of him in the final year left on his deal.
There was really no mention of Julius Randall and the three years left on
his contract that I recalled. This type of housekeeping runs counter to how the
Knicks operated over the off season, when their primary focus was the ultimately failed
acquisition of Donovan Mitchell or another superstar. This report, the latest activity just
suggest that the Knicks are more concerned with simplifying the numerous log jams that have
peppered up and down their roster. I think that makes sense. The Knicks
are forever on the Superstar prowl, and it does seem like they're sted in
winning now, but like those trades don't really exist. If you weren't going
to give up the full boat for Donovan Mitchell, why would you give it
up for let's just even say Zach Lavine or Bradley Beale's available. There's more
risk taked into both of those players who aren't even as good as Donovan Mitchell
is right now in my opinion, So like, you can't go after Superstar,
and I also think that needs to change your expectation here. Your Tibbs
is already to his credit, like he's paired down the minutes where yeah,
you can quibble about some of the minute's distributions before Obie Toppin's injury, but
like he wasn't He's not playing Rose, he's not playing Fournier. We had
seen more of Obie Toppin before he was injured. He's giving Quentin Grimes run.
Juice McBride is back in the rotation now, and so yeah, you
can actively argue about some of the things that TIBs is still doing. How
un if it seems the Knicks can be at times, but like he is
playing guys that fans and myself also wanted to be played, and like he's
cut the excess from the rotation, and it's frustrating that Cam Reddish isn't a
part of the rotation. But it's also like you look at this roster and
it's I would find ways to play Cam Reddish that I don't think Tips is
inventive enough when you look at the minis distribution, the types of lineups he
runs. But I understand the dilemma of you just have too many bodies,
and so the Knicks seemed to be just kind of clearing up that log jam.
Now the Reddish and Quickly stuff is interesting because Reddish is going to be
restricted free agent quickly. Like always, you want to be extension eligible this
summer. The Knicks have a bunch of guards and Deuced McBride and Jail Brunton
of course RJ. Barrett being a wing slash guard, and then Quentin Grimes
as well, So like, I don't know this does this It shows that
they're not invested in either of these guys really, and Quickly has been a
lot better defensively, and I think he brings a nice change of pace to
the offense, and so if I were a team, I would think giving
up a protected first round pick for him, like would Phoenix give up I
know they have campaign, but like the Chris Paul injury stuff and just knowing
what Quickly could really do on defense, you consider giving up this year's first
round pick for him. I think that they are also fans based on the
reactions to my mentions that would want more for Quickly, and I just don't
know that you're going to get that if Quickly was considered this super hot commodity
around the league, and it doesn't matter my impressions or your impressions of him,
it matters how people view him around the league. I think that the
Knicks would have had an easier time than Donovan Mitchell trade sweepstakes, where we
might have just heard more chatter there. And the other thing here is just
like the Knicks have complicated the value of their youngsters by in two different ways,
by one sort of complicating or obu skating their roles to this point,
whereas like even if Quickly is playing a steady role, there's still those years
in the rearview, and on top of that, they are later in their
contracts. Cam Reddish about to be a restricted free agent, Manuel quickly Extensional's
roll this summer, same with Obi Toppin. So you're talking about reinvesting in
these guys, and so I'm not saying the Knicks need to make a move
just for the sake of making a move, But I do think fans,
and I'm not trying to pander from a soapbox, I do think fans need
to adjust their expectations for what you're expecting back from these guys, And I
also think that you need to have an honest view of what the Knicks actually
need to do. Here. In an ideal world, one of two things
would happen. They would trade for a superstar that vaults them into contention room
your contention, or they would tear the whole fucking thing down and actually rebuild
and stick with it for once. That's not how this franchise operates. They're
trying to straddle some middle ground and level up through that way, and looking
at that, I still think as good as we've seen him play lately on
the offensive end, the best way to do that is subtraction by way of
optimization, or optimization by way of subtraction by trading Julius Randall and I propose
some Julius Randle trades. I'm not going to get into this specifics of them
now. And I'm like stammering through this because I don't even want to record
this and play the ways meat card. The reaction I got was just so
over the top. And I'm fine with people disagreeing, but like to say
that I'm the worst human being alive, or that I should go to prison,
or I have these DMS, or that I should be fired from my
job. I go back and forth and how to react to that stuff.
After all these years in the business, it does still hurt, like it
I'm a perfectionist. I definitely tie too much of my self worth to this,
and I've tried to become more transparent about that over the past year.
I don't like over sharing and I'm uncomfortable doing it, but I still try
to do it. But it want it makes you reflect on what you wrote,
like was I wrong? And also I just I don't really understand it,
the negative feedback loop of being a content creator. Again, not woe
is me. I'm not a minority, I'm not a woman like I don't
deal with it at the scale of people who are as important or more important
than I am. So I'm recognizing that, but the negative feedback loop,
especially for someone who like me, who wants to have a discussion, especially
with the people who are supportive, and that's why discord is is so great.
But like talking to people on YouTube where they can get yeah, I
need to brush it off and make it clear they can't get mad that I
don't think the Pelicans of the best defense in the league. Like that was,
you know, we called the Pelicans contenders, we called don An MVP
candidate, but we said that we're not really sold that their defense is top
one or top two, And like there's people that are you know, mad
about that. That gets frustrating. And this was sort of an extension of
that. The overarching response was the Julius Randall trades sucked. He's getting buckets.
Why would you trade Mitchell Robinson in a deal that net you Miles Turner?
And there are two different paths or maybe three different ones to go here.
For me is I think the Knicks have essentially created a situation where's Julius
Randall or Obi top in long term? If Tim's all of a sudden starts
playing them even more together. Okay, maybe that's one thing, but are
you really gonna pay both of them and top of his extension as well after
this season? No, and so by the time his new deal kicks in,
Julius Randall has only two left on his But that being said, that's
still just a misallocation of resources. And so you if you move Julius Randall,
it opens up more playing time for Obi. You get to experiment with
some more different fours like RJ. Barrett at the four. Maybe you're requiring
a different type of four in that trade, and I think that that is
the route that I would go. If you're not going to do that,
then I think that I'm not saying you have to move Obie, but I
think you have to look at well, Yeah, the Mitchell Robinson Julius Randall
minutes have been actually killer this year. I think it's helped that you remove
Evan Fournier from the equation. Not having him on defense. It makes it
life easier on Mitch, makes life easier on Julius Randall as well, because
not only is Robinson covering up for less, but now you're replacing Fournier with
Like we've seen Grihymes in those minutes, we saw Cam Reddish or so,
like the defense is just going inherently get better there. But they both like
to occupy the same spaces. And when you have RJ. Barrett and jem
Brunson, whill also want to get inside the arc. I think if you
want to keep Julius Randall, like you need to go after more of a
stretch of you're big and like Hartenstein just clearly he's not that, like to
the extreme that the Knicks would need, and neither is Jericho Simms. And
so you've allocated all this equity and Mitchell Robinson, whose deal I think is
fine. It's on the higher end, but it declines and he makes sub
thirteen million in the final year. That might be backup center money at this
point, but it's not unreasonable to think that, yeah, he's playing well,
but he's also been another player who's up and down. You need to
start thinking about the longer term of this roster, where no, would the
pathway that I go be trading Mitchell Robinson. No, But if I want
to keep Julius rand I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna look at a Miles
Turner's trade and if I'm already going to trade Emanuel quickly for protected first round
pick, I am gonna look at including a manual quickly in that deal.
And you also need to be realistic about like, Okay, Cam Reddish,
yet he's an intriguing player who the Knicks are not playing. They have not
increased his trade value since they acquired him. They gave up a conditional first
round pick that might end up being two seconds at this point because Charlotte should
suck something awful. I think that's what you're looking at for camrad It's not
even the conditional first but it would probably be two seconds if he's traded on
his own, or it's as a salary matching tool where you're attaching him to
I don't even think a player. I don't think attaching Cam Reddish to Evan
Fournier and get you off of Evan Fournier. Maybe I'm but you have to
be realistic about what the Knicks are working up against here. If you would
rather them stand pat then because you're so attached to these players and you want
to change anything, that's fine. But I don't think you're going to see
any transformative change from the franchise then, and so I do think that they
should be looking to clear up their rotation. And it's not just a matter
of trading the guys who aren't playing. It's trading probably one or two of
them who are. And so anyone who listens to this knows that I would
be all aboard, just leaning full on into the youth. And I would,
you know, would I use the first round pick to get off of
Evan for a ply not because there's one of your lists. Deal. What
I do it just get off Randall and just ensure that you could maximize the
complimentary nature of your front court. I might, And I think that there
are Knicks fans who I count myself among that believe you don't need to give
up a first degree to get off his contract. I actually agree. I
think that you could trade him. My guests would be well, actually my
guests, they might say no because they could be pretty cheap. But like
if the Suns wanted him and Sam Cooper, the Timeline podcast has hammered this
home, not the exact trade package, but like if the Suns are looking
for that third score, that third just player to create for himself and maybe
set the table for others and just give their offensive package more diversity Julius Randall
for just Dario Sarich and Jay Crowder like the expiring contracts, maybe you have
to take Landry Shammitt back instead of Sharich. I don't know, but like
I think that you could trade Julius Randall without using a first round pick,
but I also don't think that that is necessarily a common outcome where I do
think that their teams would want a first round pick. And so if you're
trading Julius Randall, you're either taking back what I would deem unsavory money equally
or less. So you don't want to take back a worse contract, but
like that is the reality of that situation. It's if you wanted to set
like if Miami's open to pairing him with them, and their half court offensive
needs the juice, like yeah, you're gonna take back Duncan Robinson and then
it's Caleb Martin to make the money work. Unless Miami's want to get up
Kyle Lowry in that deal, which I don't think that they would be,
and I would do that in heart, But if I was the Knicks,
and this isn't to say that I think Julius Randall sucks. His effort is
waxed. And Wayne, though especially on the defensive end, we've seen him
hit these offensive highs, they are transient. That's just the fact right now,
and so I think you should move him to optimize the rest of your
roster. Like I said, it's it's optimization through subtraction, and I fully
believe that's what the NICK should be looking at. And I do think that
you need to pull back if you if you have these high expectations, which
I'm not saying everybody does like the trades. I propose it's fine if you
don't like them. And just as like a thing like trading Evan Fournier Quickly,
Reddish Topping and the Dallas first and Mitchell Robinson for Josh Richardson and Miles
Turner, like yeah, is that maybe over the top. I think it
depends on how much a team like Indiana values Cam Reddish and Quickly. When
Quickly is coming into a situation where you know there's already Andrew Demhart there,
and there's already Tyrese Haliberg and Chris Duarte, so you have to factor that
and when calling together other team packages and I promise you people, if you're
listening this, who we're mad at me or I think I'm complaining, Like
I've reached the point where I'm always bouncing trade ideas off either colleagues or now
people who are covering the team actively room for the team, just to sort
of know where both sides are coming from. I'm not just going in there.
You know, I'm getting inclusive of clickbait. Hey, news slash writers
don't get to pen their own headlines. A majority of the time, I
will collaborate with the concept and I will never write something that I don't believe
is worth writing or that is just two over the top. But like,
I'm not trying to piss people off. I'm writing things I believe. I'm
trying to give justification for them. And if you're mad at the headline,
like, just go fucking beyond it. At this point, we all know
how the sausage is made and if you want to play the screenshot game,
like, yeah, that's fine. Like I've done it too to make jokes,
and I've also gone back and forth of well, I've criticized NBA players,
I've made fun of NBA players, like I should be able to take
it. It does feel different in the sense that, like, you know,
this isn't me saying something racially charged, like yeah, that's what I've
gone after players for, And if you're making a joke, it's different.
Like my big forehead, my huge nose, my wide ass ears like fair
game. At this point, I'm on camera my nasally voice, like I
totally get that you're saying that I'm the worst person alive because of a fucking
trade, Like I would never call basketball player the worst player alive because he's
missing shots. And I just still don't understand that reaction and that negative feedback
loop has just become exhausting because I still want to content create and to build
this community up. And it's not the people I think in this community,
it's the ones. I'm not accusing anybody of anything. I want to make
that clear, but it just was so frustrating. I felt compelled to justify
my stance further and say that, hey, like Knicks fans agree with me
when I was hard on tips way back when and hard on the front office,
but like, as soon as someone deviates from what I guess is the
majority line of thinking, like we don't need to actively, just you know,
be incendiary with how we're going after them. And I do think a
lot of this has to be when you are a fan of a specific team,
I think you need to step outside the bubble of that team and look
at how teams might view your other players. And I'm not saying that the
Knicks need to just trade Manual Quickly for a second round pick at this point,
I wouldn't do that. Yes, fine, keep him. I don't
even think that they should be shopping him the first place. I find the
way that they've handled him and view him one of the more ridiculous things about
this organization. But if you are operating under the assumption that you're going to
move him, you need to be realistic about what you're getting back. Don't
come at me and say Cam Reddish is worth a first round pick on his
own, or Emmanuel Quickly is worth a first round pick, a high first
round pick on his own. Which team is giving you the high first round
pick for Emmanuel Quickly? Right now? Who's giving you that high for first
round pick for Emmanuel Quickly. I don't have a team that stands out.
I thought about Washington a little bit. They don't really Picks the trade the
Knicks where he owned one of them, So, like I just I would
implore us to be realistic about what the Knicks value is. And I also
think we need to be realistic about what they're trying to do with the deadline.
It's not working, It doesn't seem like anyway based on the market that
it's cobbled together these youngsters and then go after a star. That market isn't
there right now. And I think we've also seen that other teams and your
fan bases, they're not valuing these players as highly as the Knicks and their
own fans would, which there's a natural tug of war there. I want
to make that that happens in every sort of trade negotiation. But I do
think the Knicks have played a role in complicating the value in a lot of
their youngsters, just because of the stop and start in nature of some of
their roles. Cam Reddish being in and out of the rotation, Emmanuel Cook
these role not really so much this season, but like having vascillated through the
first two years of his career, and then you're letting these contracts that weak
to the point where teams have to pay them soon that also complicates their values,
So you need to factor that into is how soon before just throwing out
that the Pacers would need to pay Emmanuel quickly that like that needs to be
a part of any calculation here. And how do teams view Mitchell Robinson's contract
when you know he's one of the least dynamic offensive centers in the game and
centers right now they're not diamond doesn't seems rude, but like there's the archetype
that Mitchell Robinson fills. Yeah, he is just like at times or especially
this season, especially since he's just returned, he's controlled chaos and really good.
So I do think he's better than an above average center. Like if
you're asking me whether I would prefer like what Miles Turner brings on offense and
even defense, Like, yeah, I'm gonna prefer Miles Turner, Like that's
we can be honest and just say that, like we don't need to overrate
all of these all of these guys. And so that's where I land on
the knick stuff. And the final thing here, just to echo, would
be I do think it should be up for consideration that you go the different
route of like maybe someone like if you need to use a man if you're
just intent on trading a manual quickly for some reason, and you attach him
with Julius Randall to get rid of him, like I wouldn't. I wouldn't
do that because I think at this point you should be able to move random
without attaching first round type equity. But I don't know that for sure,
and there are other people I talk to you think that you do need to
attach a first to him to do it, in which case I wouldn't.
Don't think the Nick should be attaching a first to Randall, let alone Fourie
who has just the one year left on his deal. But you need to
we need to look at these things from other teams perspectives, And so I
don't get why everything is so horrible just because you know, if a fake
trade doesn't have the Knicks, you know, getting a star. It's if
you're moving Randall. I think that you're improving the outlook of your team by
actually being able to discover more about your team. And I think that's how
the Knicks should approach the deadline. I don't think they will. I don't
ultimately know what happens with how they are approaching the deadline right now. But
I will say I would be very surprised if they get any anywhere near what
they gave up for Cam Redda. Even if they get a conditional first round
pick for Cam Reddish that has a chance of conveying, I will be shocked
about that when it comes to quickly. I don't think a low end first
is out of the equation, But like it's finding the team that's gonna do
it as hard is Orlando gonna give up? Like can they will they reprotect
the protected pick that they own from the Nuggets in twenty twenty five. Let's
say that pick is top five protection, So like, can the Magic just
say, hey, we're gonna keep it if it's selections six through twelve,
but if it's not, you could you could get it and we'll take a
manuel quickly. Something out there like that wouldn't leave me flabbergasted. But I
do think that the appeal of quickly to teams around, Like it's not just
sky Hide just because he's valuable to the Knicks and shown a bunch of moments
like it's a guard heavy league right now and he is about to be extension
eligible, and so that is going to factor into the equation. There are
deals to be made out there for the Knicks, but based off how they're
approaching the deadline where they're I guess looking to get back picks there, I
just don't think that they're situated to do it like there. And you know,
I guess you can use San Antono, Indiana of cap space that you
could trade a Fournier into, but like you're gonna be compensating them for that,
and it doesn't seem like they want to do that either. And so
I'm very confused as to what the endgame here is, especially when you're already
not playing some of these players that you're looking to move in a Derrick rose
In and Evan Fournier. So I don't know what to expect. I guess
in the Knicks of the deadline, but I based off what we've heard,
my approach would just be actually clear up these minutes or actually trying to optimize
this roster because it doesn't seem like you're ready to lean into a rebuild and
the market's just not ready for you to go after another star. I'm open
to letting you, I'm open to hearing what you think about this comment on
YouTube. You can get at me on Twitter at Dan for Valley. You
are joining, can join our discord. I'm sure people will be talking about
this, but it was just something I felt the need to podcast about because
I was honestly just shocked. Like even if you don't there are trades that
I was looking at and I don't know that if I were the Knicks,
I would make them, but I was trying to justify it through both teams
lenses. Yeah, I if you ask me if I could trade Julius Randall
right now for Jay Crowd and Dario Starch, I would do it because I
think that, you know, maybe Crowder doesn't want to be in New York
if they're not willing to pay him long term. But if he's willing to
play out the year and actually report to the team, you can do a
lot of different cool things at the four. Are you playing him with Obie
Topping at the five when Obie's healthy, Like he's a better fit alongside Mitchell
Robinson, just as someone who's used to kind of standing beyond the arc and
is not gonna have He has the same high swings as Julius Randall, just
without the usage and so it opens up all different sorts of things. I
don't think it's egregious to think that way. Where if you could flip Julius
Randall for expiring money to be more flexible, to have more maaluability in your
rotation, that's a discussion that I think is worth having. It doesn't mean
you do it. I want to make that clear. It doesn't mean you
do it. But like, let's have these tough talks and let's not be
assholes while we're doing it. So let me know where you land on this.
The Knicks news, the rumors, What do you want them to do
with the deadline? What do you think they should do? How much an
idiot am I am? I? Actually? But please remember too, no
matter what you do, no matter what you say, subscribe to us.
Hit the suboton on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, cross sub both on the
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them to consider checking this one out. I still believe it's underrated, a
f that it's thermonucleary as well. Until next time, I leave it the
shout out, like always, to the one, to the only do the
player that the Knicks should give up everything to trade back for clearly, obviously,
very seriously, frank La Keena