Welcome to softcore History. Welcome back to softcore History. I'm your host for
the week, Damna Chester, and I am joined as always by Rob Fox
and Jake Goldman. That's me, What is up? Hello, Welcome back
to Halloween whore Nights. Yes, spooky month. We took a brief but
important pit stop in on Friday, Extra stop just off the extra off the
old Mediterranean. Yeah, we did lovely small. We didn't take any spookiness
away from you. It's it's a horrifying yeah place to have existed for four
thousand years. Yeah, and to this day. I thought we did a
pretty good job handling it. So I didn't get I didn't get one threat,
did anyway? Ask? No one cares about you either way. No
one texts you to see if you're okay, and no one DMS you to
threaten your fucking life. My mind made it. It's irrelevant. No.
I had a friend call he goes. Just to be clear, I'm not
calling the check in on. It was about the Gator game, So thanks
Matt. I actually check in on Katie if there's a Gator loss. Don't
do that. I don't mean like, I don't mean like, don't check
in on or I mean, like, don't say that. On Saturday.
Last Saturday, after I had two crushing sports losses, I was like,
Babe, this is so dumb. But I just need admitt I need some
space, just handle the kids. I'm gonna go for a walk. I
just really need to decompressed. So I him fine out before the game and
after the game. It is during the game that I am a nightmare.
Yeah, but I it will not ruin my night if we lose, Like,
I will be all right, that's over. The Rob just checks out.
Yeah, like, down and run. Rob's done. Yeah, down
one run, pistol of the mouth. I'm sucking steel, little house,
cleaning off the top. Make sure do you check out patreon dot com slash
software history. You get two additional episodes every week software history dot com for
merch Patreon, you can actually get a discount code if you join the Patreon.
Yeah yeah, I was about to say the code, but dude,
check it out. My idea. I have the Patreon episode this week.
I'm really excited about it. It's the most fucked up exorcism I've ever read
about. Dan has just been improving our set that week after week I get
I'm sitting next to a fifteen foot tall skeleton right now Dan Dan killed.
Yeah, it's a injured giant. Now you might ask like, oh,
did Dan uh kill it a while ago and now it's just a skeleton.
No, No, he had the boat. He had a bleached like,
he had a dipped in acid like they do with hoboes that they put in
classrooms. Yeah, split up a fight and Dan got him with the sword.
So good job. Right through the precip it should be fine. Yeah,
no, check it out. I worked really hard on the set and
that's why we didn't get rid of it for the Gaza episode. Yeah,
it was probably not in the best taste to have a set littered with bones.
But I did wear my Crusader outfit so that Yeah, we bound.
We did veto that in the group chat. Yeah. Dan actually called himself
before he even got to the veto. But yeah, called myself out.
Yeah, it's like should I wear this? Should I wear this? Is
like appropriate? You know what though? Fuck that, because like maybe you
should have worn it, because no one would have been mad if he dressed
like a Mongolian or a Roman the great Yeah, like if you were like
whatever, that even Yeah, people would have lost stuff. I wore my
Amica that day though. College campuses, Yeah, I can't wait. What
if you're on a college campus, Yeah, I can't worry Yamica probably not,
probably not. It's probably on site. Oh man, that's stumb the
hats not it's not a fun hat to wear. Yeah, well they the
people don't realize that, Like when you see it up close. They've almost
always got like a clip on. It doesn't seem sensible. How do you
wear one if you're bald, dude, it's probably tape to cover up that
little spot in the back of your head. Yeah, clutch. I've I've
only had the small ones and I never had a clip. I was never
rocking a clip and that ship would follow. Do you think guys with classic
male pattern baldness are like the Yamaica stays on during sex? Yeah? I
think so does the does on. You're asking the wrong jow. Okay,
did you ever have like one of those stupid like customized Yamica, like a
baseball Yamaica, football Yamaica. I gotta. I would always see those and
be like, it's what do you I don't I don't ask for like a
ninja turtles communion wafer, like, just fucking take it's actually that'd be sweet,
but does it turn into does it turn into Donna Tello though when you
put it in your mouth? Yeah, turtle meat at that point, it's
a turtle wafer. Uh yeah, No, I just rocked a little black
one. Never Yeah, I just kept classic classic. Well, just like
that episode about Gaza, we're gonna go back to ancient history nineteen twelve.
Yeah, to be fair to me, nineteen twelve was technically covered in that
Gaza episode. We went up to the beginning of World War one. H
Yeah, but we kind of glossed over it in nineteen hundreds. We left
it out. Yeah, I only went up to I didn't I cut it
off at the British, right, because that really gets into the modern part.
And that's a whole other episode that we didn't want to handle or touch
exactly we wanted. We wanted all the SEO without any of the controversy.
Yeah, that's right. We wanted to say an hour of things without saying
anything. Yeah, we really needed to play that one safe. Yeah.
Anyway, though, that's we're not talking about that episode. We're gonna talk
about this episode. We're gonna play it real safe right down the line for
Halloween hornights. We're talking about a gruesome ax murder of eight people. Yeah,
love that, Love that. A lot of axe murders, by the
way, you did an episode I believe a couple of years ago, a
German ax murder. This was just the time for axe murders. AX murders
were bucking back then. This is uh, who's the chick she did the
ax? Yeah, Lizzie Bordon did the axe murderers as well. I don't
know if Lizzy Bordon did those ax murders. Dude, it wouldn't surprise me.
Yeah, I mean if she didn't. Well, this specific incident we're
gonna talk about is still unsolved to this day. You think you'll ever catch
the guy, Well, we're gonna do it today. We're gonna solve this
mystery today. I think it's just a drifter. I think it's a nameless
drifter. There are a lot more of them that don't spoil the episode,
just say I like your shot. Yeah, I like that you're calling it.
I think it's the baby that band got right back into a train car
rode the rails. There is a hobo yeah, it's gotta be a hobo
man, Rob for all of you that are new to the show, licks
the boots of any empire and just dunks on poor people, poor people.
So so of course we're talking about the famous Velaska axe murders in Iowa.
Yeah no, I mean I can imagine one winter in Iowa would make me
want to murder people. So yes, yeah, it's not all field of
dream. It's just flat with corn and hate. And like the thing about
a place like Iowa or where I went to school in mid Missouri, where
like Oklahoma or Kansas is in the winter, there's nothing to stop the wind.
I'm sorry, I'm retarded. Veliska, Veliska Iowa. Would you call
it Velaska? I didn't, I wouldn't have heard it, and just was
like, I'm not anyway. I think I think we're getting picky. No,
yeah, talking about calling myself out. Yeah, thank you, Dan.
But like the winters are so brutal, like it's it's literally just like
you have nowhere to hide from it. Yeah, no, that's your choice.
Well this happened in June, Rob, perfect, so I didn't have
to worry about the winter. June ninth, nineteen twelve to be exact,
five flies were out and there was a hommin in the summer night. Yeah,
there's just a random Savannah man. Yeah, I was drift. Yeah,
it's a very eloquent dragged my axe to the corn for you, scraping
on the dirt road, sucking on a can of beans. So I Vliska.
I was located roughly about one hundred miles southwest of des Moines, middle
of fucking nowhere. Yes, about to say, I don't know any other
city in Iowa other than Grand Rapids and des Moines. So yeah, yeah,
Like I said, there were eight victims, including six children. Yep,
killed a bunch of kids. And they all had violently as a child
could die. They all had severe head wounds from other than lighting a child
on fire. I do not I cannot think of a more violent way for
a child to die. He was taking full swings, Yeah, you hope
or honestly, Yeah, we forgot who killed children? Hannah Dustin. Hannah
Dustin killed all the kids. Yeah, but it was self defense, revenge,
rightful revenge, like the most rightful revenge got smashed against the tree.
Yeah. She she witnessed horrors unspeakable, What do you think decolonization was gonna
look like smash his baby against the tree? I mean, fair enough,
But if that's what decolonization is gonna look like, I don't think what you're
gonna like what recolonization looks like. It's not gonna be fun. History is
a bloody not ever fun. A lengthy investigation yielded several suspects, one of
whom was tried twice. The first trial ended in a hung jury, and
the second ended in an acquittal. It tried twice for the same thing.
I thought there were laws against that. Yeah, no, no, no,
no not if not if the jury can't come to a decision, so
we'll just redo it. Yeah, so you can get double jeopardy if you
get hung. They just have to. It's like if there's a mistrial,
it's just a redo. Yeah, okay, huh doesn't normally like just not
happen the second time, though? Is that pretty rare? Uh No,
Danny Masterson just got his first one was a mistrial. Oh really, they
couldn't. Just the most of the jury didn't want to convict, and the
judge threw it out and did and retried it. Huh. Interesting, Yeah,
the poor family that got murdered was the More family, which consisted of
parents Joe and Sarah. Joe just forty three, Sarah's thirty nine. They
have four children of their own, Herman Montgomery, Mary Catherine, Arthur Boyd,
and Paul Vernon. Okay, and I believe there were what two unfortunate
slumber partiers. Yep, never, Oh god, i'd he's so fucking mad
if I got killed at someone else's house. Yeaph Mary Catherine Moore invited Ina
May and Lena Gertrude Stillinger. See, before you could watch scary movies at
a slumber party. You just lived out the scary movie at your slumber party.
Well, I mean you had to. That's where all the scary movies
came from. Right, If this didn't happen, you wouldn't have scary movies.
So after their church program ended at nine thirty pm, Jesus some Moors.
Was it like a Stillinger sister walked to the Moor's house between anywhere from
nine to ten pm. Was it a a church service or like a church
like get together? It was like a children's day program. Yeah, yeah,
so it was like it wasn't like it wasn't like service that way,
right right, Okay, no, but they for sure were still doing God
stuff. Oh I mean, well, yeah, it's you ever go to
like CCD or like after school care for with like a religious lean to it.
Uh No, I'd imagine it's like that. Yeah. I actually did
go to a Baptist summer camp one time. They just were really well reviewed.
I guess, yeah whatever in Florida, and like, I don't remember
anything churchy, but we watched a fuck ton of edge details. Oh we.
Rory's first daycare was at a Baptist church. It was like two days
a week, and they were great. All the people were great and everything
like that. But like everything, all the artwork he would bring home would
have like a little Bible verse on it, although it was like the most
innocuous Bible verse. It was like Jesus loved his friends or whatever, you
know what I mean. I remember one of our friends was like, what's
with all the biblely stuff on your fridge? Because we put the artwork on
the fridge, And I was like, I don't think it's really problematic Bible
versus name names, which who. It was just like the most innocuatship.
But one time I dropped ory off and all the kids were crying and she
was singing. One of the teachers like singing a song. But it was
like, Jesus me this, I know, kids kept crying. Yeah whatever.
But as a child going to like a summer camp at my Catholic school
for like a week, we made eu christ homemade. You made them,
We made the uchris, you made the waffle, the wafer, and we
watched a bunch of veggietails of vegetails. I shall never in my life watched
veggietails. I did not go to a non religious school until I was eighteen
years old. Dude, veggietails is trash. Yeah, it's stupid. Honestly,
every time I am around non Catholic shit, like other religion, other
Christian religions so religious centric. Whereas like when I was in like I never
remember even talking about Jesus in like my Catholic preschool. Yeah, oh I
do, I remember none telling me I was going to Hell because I was
going to public high school. Oh well that's accurate. Yeah. Oh,
you don't want to give your money to the church, you get your Hell
education. This goes down the night of June ninth, next day. Mary
Peckham, then Moore's neighbor, became concerned after she noticed the family had not
come out to do their morning chores. The Moors aren't choring today, that's
concerning. It's more like it. But she's more like it's an hoa situations
like Moore's grass is a quarter inch too high. Yeah, yeah, he
didn't have his wife and daughters up working at six am. That's a fine.
She knocked on the Moor's door, nobody answered. Peckham let the Moor's
chickens out and called Rossmore, Josiah's brother. Like Peckham, Moore received no
response when he knocked on the door and unlocked the door himself with a copy
of his house key. Interesting, I'm taking note of that. Mm Why
his fucking brother has a key to the house. Yes, I gotta know
who has access to the house. In an investigation, He first opened the
guest room, where he found Ana and Lena's bodies on the bed. Just
smashed a ship, I imagine. I guess they weren't alive. No,
so More immediately told Beckham to call Henry Hank Horton, the primary peace officer
of the region, who ripped Shortly thereafter, Horton's search of the house revealed
that the entire More family and the two still injured girls had been bludgeoned to
death. When you say call, what are they on phones at this point?
Or did she have to go just run off and call and afore him?
Nineteen twelve, you get up on a you gotta just get up on
a hill. Yeah, I don't really. I mean, the phone was
the phone was invented. I'm just wondering if this part of the country,
Iowa, middle of Iowa, was rolling. I can't imagine. There's a
lot of phone lines back then, but it's not. I don't think it
matters either way. I'm curious. It's kind of a funny visual. If
she had to like run to call for him, it's like, great Haulton,
it'd be funny if she was just like, oh my god, there's
something wrong. I'll go right right away, and he's just like you you
can take your time's you can watch. Or she ran there and then she's
out of breath trying to tell the officer what happened. But she's like,
spit it up, lady, all dead. He's like, all right,
well, we'll walk back. That'd be funny. It's be like, how
fast do you need me to go? Like, is it like it's anyone
in trouble immediately or is it just like someone needs to see this in the
next two hours. The two hours, the murder, weapon and acts belonging
to Josiah was found in the guest room where the Stillinger girls were found.
Doctors concluded that the murders had taken place between midnight and five am. They
found two spent cigarettes in the attic. Oh, they had someone living up
there, suggesting that the killer or killers patiently waited in the attic until the
more family and the still in your guess we're asleep. You think they're just
hanging out down there the night of like, man, who's ripping heaters out
here? Well, unless you know Papa Moore was ripping a pipe all nine
or something true. But I mean, like the kids smoking in their rims
right now, Like maybe, well let's a sleepover, honey, let them
let the girls smoke their cigarettes. Yeah, they've got to grow up sometime.
What Uh, I have a second So I still think it's a drifter.
However, I do have a second opinion, like a backup murder suicide.
The father did it. He asked himself to death of the just looking
down a fucking axe and throwing it at your face. Why do you say
that? Because Josiah received more blowish than the acts than any other victim.
I don't think it was him a lot of self loathing. Actually, it
took more time, you know, it took a lot of time to like
hit himself. Yeah, that's why. I don't know if I said this
on air, but that's why I was saying. I said this once.
Like the like the reason there's almost no suice with like rifles and shotguns is
because with a handgun, you can just put it to the side. You
don't even see it, you know, you just pick it up and do
it. But with a rifle or something, you put it, you're putting
it in your mouth, putting your toe on the trigger, and at some
point you're like, oh whoa, this is like and you're just like looking
down the bear like, oh boy, oh man, that's a big gun.
Yeah, oh I'm putting it in my mouth. Ah, I don't
know, sounds like I you've done this before, nah, okay, not
to myself. What. Yeah, he actually murdered Kurt Cobain. Yeah,
it's like, all right, Kurt, me and Courtney Love. Huh,
here's all the heroin Where were you that night? Nineteen ninety four? Um,
who knows? Man? Probably University City, Missouri, like eight eight
year old rob in a very adult Courtney Love just conspiring in an attic.
It kind of checks Garden House. If someone was gonna if anyone from any
nineties rock star was gonna molest a kid, it's Corney Love. Yeah,
in like a Lena Dunham kind of way. What do you not? Never
mind, I'm not even going to that, okay, yeah, oh yeah,
yeah were she did her sister? Yeah, but they were both kids,
and but then she wrote about it. She put it in her book.
I think didn't have to report. No, I've been just coming out
in favor of every celebrity rapist's kind of is there something with Amy Schumer?
What is there something with Amy Schumer too? She's in Hamas, Oh yeah
that makes sense. Yeah, no, she's Jewish. I know. It's
fun, that's crazy and stuff. Yeah, the most self loaths That was
a South Park episode though. It's like with the one who who uh uh
fucking worshiped the guy from puhim o haymn And what effector you of Judaism because
they're all like this with that, he's like the So the killer or killers
began in the master bedroom where Josiah and Sarah Moore were sleeping. Josiah,
like I said, received more blows to the face than any other victim,
and he had been cut to such an extent that his eyes were missing.
Ooh, where'd they go in? Oh? No, clever part. He
only used the blade against Josiah and Sarah. Would he use the handle the
blunt end of the hammer end? Yes, for the rest of the victims.
Everybody else was bludgeing to death while the parents were cut to death.
Was the axe? I mean, look, at some point it's gonna dull
a little bit. It's gonna dull. But I think it's the efficiency of
killing the adults, like making sure you don't have someone that can stop.
Yeah, you have to make sure the adults are done. Also, apparently
they were all asleep. That's one of the things, like these kind of
murders where I'm just like, no one's waking up the ball house, no
one's waking up. I've looked at it to a tiny house. You would
hear it, Yeah, you would hear someone getting acts to death. Well,
the other with the other dude is like, the wife is right next
to him. Yeah, so she's gonna wake up immediately at the back the
squish, Yeah, you're not gonna wake up. I mean my wife would
wake up immediately. My wife wakes up when I just like roll over.
Yeah, so parents get it first. They then move on and kill herman,
Mary, Catherine, Arthur, and Paul, bludging them to death.
So all the moors wiped out. Good job. They then returned to the
master bedroom to inflict more blows on the elder moors. So this almost seems
vendetta you Now that seems a little proud. Did they know what is the
forensic situation at this time that they knew he zero? Yeah? How do
they know he did the others and then went back? And I mean,
I guess they're probably good at figure out like meat cuts. I'm imagining there's
a lot of blood. There's probably like some foot trail too. Uh yeah,
that could be it, yeah, or it's I gotta imagine they start
with cuts, goes to bludging, then maybe more bludgeoning. No, they
bring in like a ben Wa Blanc to solve the mystery, you know,
yeah, Oh he didn't. They were murdered by X. I got hold
on. Go ahead, this drift though, I want us to think he's
a drift. I don't bottle. Actually it was the baby. It's the
baby. Baby, it was biby, it was it was the baby.
Actually baby has killed somebody. Yeah, with a gun. Yeah. Didn't
get canceled for that, no, no, no, no, got canceled
for saying a hard af hey man, sometimes you gotta drop someone in a
Walmart. I don't think he said hard f. I think he was just
talking about how like gay people get aids all the time. Probably on the
stage. He was like, can't you gotta be watched out? Can't we
have a gayste because you'll get aids. He was just like it was on
it like eighth blunt during a concert and again that people were like, you
bastarded monster. Meanwhile he's like literally taken a life and wraps about it.
He's like, I take I would do it again. Oh you sillida baby.
Yeah, I wouldn't even trying to cancel a murderer for Yeah, if
you get, if you get, if you don't get canceled for murder.
Can't do anything right, You can't touch me. Now I'm gonna dance.
He then goes downstairs to the guest bedroom, killing Ana and Lina. He
then leaves a four pound slab of bacon taking out of the ice box and
puts it next to the axe. I don't know if this is symbolic card.
Yeah, he's the four pound slab of bacon axe murder. He actually
checks the icebox make sure he has bacon. Yeah, right, he was
up there for weeks until he knew they bought bacon. Oh maybe he was
Jewish. He was like knew it. Also, four pounds of bacon,
is that's a lot of lot until you got six kids or four kids,
kids and two adults. I mean that's still a lot of bacon. Club,
Yeah, what are you doing with all that bacon? After the search?
The reason it's so hard to fucking find who committed this murder because it's
nineteen twelve, they're in the middle of nowhere. Well, they just let
the town in and kind of investigate themselves. Completely contaminated in the weapon.
People were just picking up the acts. Oh heavy, what is there to
contaminate well, fingerprinting doesn't even exist. It does, I does fingerprints.
They have fingerprinting, but but there's not much of a database. Oh but
I mean like there is no that's it. It's your fingerprinting, right.
Maybe I don't even know if they have blood splatter yet. But yeah,
like they didn't start using like DNA or anything until I think like the late
eighties. No, no, I mean, yeah, maybe it started in
the late a's. But that was a big plot point. Well I assume
it was a big thing in the actual trial too, But it was a
big plot point in the O. J. Simpson trial is that there was
a fair amount of DNA evidence that he did it, but DNA evidence was
so new that the jury was kind of like real lit audn't see. But
yeah, but there was anyway, one of the plot points in the one
with Cubugating Junior and that really great FX series, yeah, was that after
the DNA evidence came out, all of OJ's friends except for Robert Kardashian,
stopped like showing up to support him. And even Robert Kardashian kind of figured
at this point because they were like a little more sophisticated than the average person
they're all really wealthy. And then once they saw that, like the d
the science was backing up, the DNA evidence was backing up that he did
it, they just were like, Okay, well I can't They probably show
two seconds to read about it. Yeah, they're like, oh yeah,
it was still so new that the he wasn't into it, and the prosecution
the defense was able to make me a lot of it, to make it
like able to kind of undercut it the way they that the way that the
defense team would not be able to do that. Now, you know what's
crazy is like, especially with stuff like that, the polygraph used to be
so much more of a oh they lied on a polygraphe and it's like now
it's like you can't you get that ship thrown out? I mean, it's
meaningless. It's it's dude, the guy's nervous, Like it's you might as
well just say you read his horoscope. Yeah, pretty much. It's like,
oh, he clenched his butt at the wrong time and figured it out,
Like good job. Listen. They might Now with the horoscope, they
might it's so broad that just bring in the right crystals. You're in areas.
Huh, what day was the murder. Oh, you had a lot
of violent, passionate anger. On June ninth, bro Neptune was in a
certain place in the sky that would preclude you to uh bludgeon eight children to
death with an axe. I'm surprised you didn't use it try death, So
that's Skitterers believe that all the victims except Lena were asleep when murdered. They
thought that she was awakened and tried to fight back, as she was found
with a defensive wound on her arm. She actually defended herself, well kind
of kind of. I mean, she's only so much she can do.
Lock. Yeah, yeah, it's really it's like putting in your hand in
front of a gun, right, It's like which they find a lot.
Yeah, she is twelve, so yeah, unfortunate. They also believed at
first that she might have been sexually molested, as her nightgown was pushed up
and there was no undergarments underneath, but this was later proven false. Few
granted, like, if somebody actually did try to rape her, I feel
like that'd be an easier way to solve it. What if someone raped her
in nineteen twelve, if they have fingerprints, I feel like you could easily
find something, I guess, but you're not gonna match it to anyone.
Yeah, this smells like that drifters, sperm the bloodhounds. Like he comes
bringing the sperm hounds. Yeah, he comes in an old bucket and then
the hounds smell her and then smell what's in the bucket. Yeah, I
don't this is That is as much as they can test semen. In nineteen
twelve, the hound test the dog knows it smells like come over time,
many possible suspects emerged. Josiah Moore worked for a man by the name of
Frank Jones at the Jones Store for several years until he opened his own competitive
company in nineteen oh eight. Jones also held a state Senate seat at the
time. It was extremely upset that Josiah Moore had left his employment and took
his biggest client, John Deereway. Oh now, I had read that this
person actually screamed at him, I'll kill you with an axe, you pig.
He dropped the pig in there. But I do you still think it
was a drifter Bacon connection? Yeah, I mean that, damn damn God.
Yeah, Like I didn't see that, but uh sounds good. It's
open and shut. What a thing to yell it. I'll kill you with
an ax. He's spelled pig with the bacon on the floor of the home.
There were also rumors that Josiah Moore had an affair with Jones's daughter in
law, Donna, a daughter in law. Yeah, okay, so he's
he's cocking his son. Yeah, that would be it. They don't believe
Frank at first would have committed the murder himself. But yeah, yeah,
like I hired somebody to do it a hit, right, Frank's not living
in an attic for for a state senitor, is not holding up in an
attic with a pack of smokes. Yeah. No, the drifter he hired
to do it might hired gun or hired acts rather, I guess in this
situation is definitely just hanging out ripping heaters like that. That's such a hit
man move, just like enter William Mansfield of Blue Island, Illinois. He
was the prime suspect at first of the Burns Detective Agency in Kansas City and
Detective James Newton Wilkerson. Mansfield was also known as George Warley and Jack Turnball.
Okay, so two other identities for this guy. Not a good start.
I feel like it is typically usually the first or second person that is
suspected. Yeah you think that. Why? Just just I don't know,
like people closest, people closest to like I mean, I don't know if
this detective knew what he was doing. According to Wilkerson, Mansfield was a
cocaine fiend and axe raged psychopath. I went over to his house the other
day and he was just blowing lines and swinging an axe around. I got
explains to cigarettes man, that's hilarious that there's just just a hit man in
their attic, blasting off and ripping heaters, just waiting to get a hold
of the axe. Where'd they keep the axe, by the way, because
he would have had to go probably all the way downstairs, maybe even outside,
grab the axe, and then go back upstairs and start wailing on the
mom and dad. Well, he got the axe. It's Josiah's axe,
I know. So he was waiting in the attic before they got there,
I know, but he did take the axe with him. Probably Okay,
probably he probably got the axe before they got back. But I mean,
wouldn't they maybe notice if the axe was gone? If they keep it in
a certain place. What do you think he chops would at night? No,
it probably wasn't like the shed or something. Okay, well that's what
I'm wondering. That's why I'm asking where the axe was kept. Sounds like
you're victim blaming here. I am victim blaze. Yeah, why didn't they
notice the axe? Miss? Don't start your own business? You think his
first thought when he woke up to the axe being swung in his face,
like, Oh, there it is, That's where I left it. Wilkerson
believed uh Mansfield was responsible for the axe murders of his wife, infant,
child, father in law, and mother in law and Island, Illinois on
July fifth, fourteen. He had other people that were axe murdered two years
after this. Huh, the axe murders committed in Kansas, four days before
Feliska murders, and the murders of Jenny Peterson and Jenny Miller in Aurora,
Colorado. So this guy started connecting dots and saw a lot of similarities between
all the different murders. So we might have a serial act. Isn't this
the drifter or is this the hit man? This is the hit man Okay,
I think it's a little bit of a little bit of b Wilkerson managed
to convince a grand jury to open an investigation in nineteen sixteen, and Mansfield
was arrested and brought to Montgomery County from Kansas City. Payroll records, however,
provided the alibi and place Manfield in Illinois at the time. He just
working for who, Yeah, he just had a payroll stuff. It was
just like, hey, look, I was in fucking Illinois at the time.
Doesn't mean anything. It doesn't doesn't mean it, like, you can
make a check. Go. It's so easy to get away with murder back
then, everything really everything. Yeah, well coke was legal, so get
away with that. Yeah, I mean, that's weird, but not illegal.
He was released for lack of evidence and later won a lawsuit he brought
against Wilkerson and awarded tw and twenty five dollars for a vindictive son of a
bitch. This guy was on a he's just heat checking at that point when
he was awarded, He's like, that's more than double what I made for
the hit defamation. He just gets paid. It's getting paid twice for the
same murder. Look. I assume his name was all over the papers for
that trial, so definitely, Wilkerson believed that the pressure from Jones resulted not
only in Mansfield's release, but also in uh the subsequent arrest and trial of
the next suspect. Next up, we got Reverend Kelly What the Presbyterian reverend.
He's a traveling preacher. Kelly and his wife settled in Macedonia, Iowa,
in nineteen twelve after several years up pressing throughout the Midwest. In nineteen
seventeen, Kelly was arrested and charged with the murder of one of the victims
of the axe murderers. Just one, just one. He just be funny,
but he did just do one. Like he walks in and like they
they both just see each other. He's like, I'm here for the girl
that's sleeping over and he's like, okay, I'm here for the family.
Yeah, well there's one extra. Yeah, I'll take I mean a Bogo's
like, hey, you ax murdering in here. I've been dying to get
that one. God damn Like like your work man. Kelly was invited to
attend the Children's Day exercises at the Presbyterian Church on June ninth, nineteen twelve.
His presence in Veliska on the night of the murders and his subsequential departure
in the early morning hours on June tenth made him a prime suspect because I
don't know, seems like he was U only been here for a day and
then he left. And never trust a drifter. Yeah, traveling people never
trust, do we honestly though, it is almost inherent in society. I
wonder if let's get deep for a second here, I wonder if that is
our pastoralist DNA or or society situation. Oh, we don't trust nomads.
We don't trust herders and stuff like that. Yeah, because think about like
any traveling person is immediately not trusted quote unquote drifter, a nomad like in
that movie that came out like a year or two ago with that actress.
Yeah, you know what I'm talking about, No, mad, I think
it is called nomad. Yeah, although in Viking culture sometimes they considered uh,
drifters that come into their like little fishing villages and everything. Uh,
kind of like a physical form of gods. Okay, well, so the
the opposite of that, they thought like Odin or Thor would just take human
form and show up, show up as a drifter and fuck their wives imagine
or just man, what a great time to be a hobo, right time
and place. Oh there's also like you know Gypsy's carnies. Yeah, I
wonder if that's our little like it's got to be farming DNA. Well think
about it just from like a lizard brain perspective. It's like, all right,
there's finite resources, new person here. What do they want? Right?
Like? How do we have to provide for them? How can they
provide for themselves? Are they gonna take from us and they're gonna eat before
they even work? And you like to think somebody you live amongst is in
capable of something this horrific. Right, of course, it's it's convenient too
to blame it, because it's like your social fabric gets fucked Otherwise. Kelly's
first trial resulted in hung Jerry, like I said, and he was finally
quitted on the second. I don't think he'd do it. He didn't do
it. I don't think so either. He's out for me. It's just
an odd one too. It's like we're only charging him with one of these.
I think it was the guy that was in town for all those other
axe murders, the guy, the cocaine fiend, axe swinger, yeah,
the coke addict, the one that has other charges of or I guess a
conviction. Rather, it probably always needs money for coke. Yeah. One
of my favorite things in Deadwood was and this is that's around the same time
for thirty years apart, how Al sweer Engine would be like, you want
money or you want dope, like for payment of his criminals that he would
have give me to pay your money or dope or pussy. Yeah, I
would have been like, uh, thirds, give it me in thirds,
yeah, one of each. Yeah, yeah, I mean all the money
is going to go on the other two, right, Yeah, I guess
Just give me the money and I'll figure out what I want to pay for.
Yeah, let's get to the next suspect. Maybe it'll change your mind.
Okay. Henry Moore no relation to Joe Moore, so no relation to
this family, was uh suspected of this and potentially being the serial killer responsible
of like a dozen other axe murders. God damn a lot of axe murdering
this time. So Henry Moore was actually convicted of the murders of his mother
and maternal grandmother in Columbia, Missouri. Oh hey, let's go shout out
como. I gotta look this guy up real quick. You know. It's
interesting that they're like, oh, it's very similar. It's like, is
there like a less violent way to kill someone with an axe? Yeah,
they're like, oh, what one slice on that one? Different kind of
strokes you're taking with the paint brush. Yeah, it's like this guy's got
like some panache, you know, he like takes a clean swing. Everyone
else messy. This guy's a surgeon with the axe, you know. Yeah,
you don't want to be like a fucking brute. No, that's uugh.
Be an artiste. So just so ghost to swing as hard as you
can. Henry Moore, Sir. Thirty six years of a life sentence before
being parolled by the Governor of Missouri on December two, nineteen forty nine,
for the murder of his mom. What who is the governor and grandmother?
I don't know. This seems like you should have to apologize for that.
Yeah, that's what I do. Those are your people. Yeah, there's
like a murderer out, a man that murdered his mom and grandmother. Yeah,
this is what he looks like. He looks like a guy that would
do it. He's got decent hair. Yeah, he here cuts fucking bananas.
I don't know what y'all you're talking about. I mean, it's he
has a lot of it. It's just like, what is that style?
So apparently, he says on his Wikipedia. Although described as a friendly looking
man, he had a morbid habit of visit This is early life, by
the way, early life and first imprisonment. Okay, had a morbid habit
of visiting various morgues in Saint Louis with the purpose of looking at the bodies.
Uh. He also collected newspaper scraps from famous criminal cases. Was this
in your outline? Okay? God damn, yeah, Hey, what do
you want here? I just want to look at the bodies. I won't
touch him or nothing, all right. He actually ends up servant until I
believe nineteen fifty six. But Henry Moore was eighty two years old and they
let him out and he lived out the rest of his life, apparently at
the Salvation Army Center in Saint Louis. I know exactly where that is.
Huh yeah, interesting. Yeah, So they could never connect him to this
murder. But they were like, well, we got him for one certain
we put him away long enough that he's not going to do it. He's
eighty two, yep. So what do you guys think of him as a
potential suspect. Pretty good, pretty drifty, I think, regardless of if
he did this one. God, he hangs out at the morgue. It's
not a good look, my guy. Next up, we probably have the
leader in the clubhouse. In Rob's mind, I don't know. This guy's
literally a fucking drifter right here. He just wanders around. Well, no,
this is literally a traveling hobo, okay partly? Yeah, then Andy
Sawyer, Andy Sawyer, Mister Sawyer was clean shaven and wearing a brown suit
when he arrived. Classier homeless people back then. Yeah, it's you know,
it's probably a suit with some holes in it, some wear, but
they're still wearing a suit. Shoes were covered in mud. Pants were nearly
wet to the knees. O what wet to the knees? Yeah, walking
around ponds. This guy came from a fucking bog, Like, what's he
doing? Wandered out of the swamp, got my swampsuit on. Today?
He asked for employment in town, and mister Dyer, a local farmer,
need an extra man, and gave him a spot. Uh. Mister Dyer
testified that later mister Sawyer purchased a newspaper, which he went off to read
by himself. The newspaper carried a front page account of the murders, and
according to Dyer, Sawyer was much interested in it. Well, yeah,
I don't think that's a a fault. I think it's funny. It was
just like list the reasons people were suspicious. Yeah, that horrible dude he
was he was he going like that guy must have been a genius. That
guy must have been so cool. I don't know, man, he sounded
like handsome and rich. Dier's crew complained that Sawyer slept with his clothes on
and was anxious to be by himself, ready to go at any time.
I guess yes. They were also uneasy about the fact that Sawyer slept with
his axe, and often fair the newspaper not a hard cell, but the
guy that literally sweeps sleeps with an axe might be a little off, and
often talked about the murders and whether or not a killer had been apprehended and
who have been caught yet. Okay, you guys, did you hear about
that? Do you remember that really hot killer with the act who have been
taken down for that yet? Like what do you talk? I mean there
was a killer. I don't think anyone said he was handsome. Just think
about it. It's definitely like like it was a crazy all hands to he
was oh like, I mean, people were kind of like wishing they got
killed by him, trying to look up what he looks like. Well,
there's my favorite like portrayal of the axe murderer. I'll just try to find
it. I'm listening. But it's just there's a funny portrayal of him that
I just like to imagine as him. And that's why I always say it's
a drifter because I as soon as I saw this picture for the first time
years ago, I was like, yep, that chucks out sometimes, like
have you actually heard about this? Like there's a look to pedophiles, Like
there's an actual facial look really like they're like they're like you know like sometimes
like yeah, that guy looks like a pedophile. It's like there's actually like
a vibe they're like when you see it's not like a confirmation bias thing.
They're like, no, like I don't know if they they can't like use
it to obviously predict anything. There's just weird looking people sometimes. Yeah,
but like I gotta figure I gotta look into that. I'll figure out all
right here it is. This always cracks me up, and I'm like,
yeah, drifter, sure, beetlejuice, that's a fucking clown. Yeah,
it's basically like a cloud man. It's just like over old crazy hobo who's
just like it looks like he crawled out of hell. I mean, that
doesn't get worse than that. No, real quick, before we talk about
these fun and spooky murders in Iowa some more, we do have some ads,
and first up is Indo Chino. Go to indo Chino dot com and
use the promo code softcore and you will get ten percent off. Again,
go to Indo Chino dot com use the code softcore that's I N D O
C H I N O dot com promo code softcore to get ten percent off
any purchase of three hundred and nine nine dollars and more. They might hear
three hundred nine dollars and be like, good lord, did they sell ps
two, PS fives PS two PS five What the hell is going on?
Yeah they still play Station Two's rough? Yeah yeah, I'm just old and
stupid. Uh. Now they sell suits, man, they sell like incredible
take suits. This is not like a dinky store you would go into in
the mall or something like that. This is high end custom suits that Endo
Chino does. I have two suits from them, a couple of slacks from
them. Dude. The experience with them, both online and in store in
their showroom is incredible. You can personalize every single aspect of the suit,
the innerlining, the fabric of the whole thing obviously, the cut, you
know, the way it buttons, everything, everything. I don't even know
what to say other than every single It's almost overwhelming. But thankfully the people
that work there, both online and in the showroom can guide you through a
lot of it. They're experts at that stuff. But I mean, like,
if you are really really into it, you know, and want to
customize it down to the last thread, you can do all of that yourself
too. It is awesome. I will not never go anywhere else to buy
a suit. I mean, and the prices they have too, Like it
is mall prices at like freaking the type of place you get sent into a
back room in Vegas to get your suit, you know what I mean?
Yeah, man, No, I mean I'm looking at the site now.
The stuff looks really good and the prices are insane. So even getting ten
percent off on top of the deal you're already getting is a nice win.
And they do they have, you know, color, new colors and fabrics.
They have outerwear. So for the fall. Look, dude, whether
you're going to a fall wedding or I don't know, you really drew you
need a tux for New Years You're just that fancy people still throwing Gatsby parties
ten years later. Who knows whatever it is? You know, I really
Fall weddings are just in right now. Whatever you need, Indo Chino is
the place to do it. You can choose the exact customizations you want online.
Buttons, vents, blah blah blah already said all that. I'm telling
you it's everything. Every suit is made to your exact measurements and you can
customize every detail create a suit that fits you and your style perfectly. There's
endless options to do that. Blazers, pants, outerwear and more designed and
made for you. They have hundreds of high end quality fabrics, quality European
wools, linens, cottons, a wide range of colors and patterns, design
to look personalized to your style and taste. And look, if you just
working and you need a lot of suits, you know what I mean,
Especially if you're an attorney or something like that. Yeah, or you work
in like a real you know, uh, white collar business. But maybe
you have not you know, maybe you still got to save on other things
because you live in Manhattan or something like that, or you just paying off
law school bills. Dude, Endochino the place to do it. That's endochino
dot com promo code softcore. You're not gonna get better suits anywhere else.
Next up, we've got fitbod. Go to fitbod dot me slash Softcore.
That's fitbo d dot em slash Softcore. You'll get twenty five percent off your
subscription at fitbod dot em slash Softcore. What is fitbod. It is the
best workout app you will ever have in your life. It is like having
a personal trainer in your pocket. They do all kinds of customized workouts.
They keep track of what muscles, you work your progress like you're lifting progress
and stuff like that, you're running progress, anything trackable that you need.
There's thousands of workouts that they have in there that you can do where you
uh there's like video demonstrations and stuff like that, so you know how to
do everything so you're not messing it up. I mean, it motivates you.
It tells it like whether you want to just be a friggin gorilla or
you're like, you know what I want, Like, uh, I want
like Christiano Ronaldo's body. Yeah, you know what I mean, it's like
a soccer player body something whatever. Like they can get you the sort of
workouts you want to achieve, the body you want, the goals you want,
whatever. I can't recommend this app enough. Danie's a little time,
Jak's all the time. And not only it's not just for the gym they
do. They you can plug in the equipment you have at home and they
can work with you on that. They can do body weight training so like
push ups and pull up stuff like that. I mean, there is nothing
this app can't do as and be in terms of adaptability to work out,
you could be in an empty house and get to work out with. Yeah,
it is incredible what fitbod is capable of. They create custom workouts based
on all that stuff, your goals and everything. Their technology understands your strength
training ability. They study your past workouts and the data they get from that
to you know, move forward with it. The app varies the intensity and
the volume. Like I said, it tracks muscle fatigue that it keeps your
gym sessions fresh, which is really important. It you know, it mixes
up the workout so it's not just like all right this again, like okay,
let's go, because I mean after a while, you know, things
get mundane. It sucks or any runner knows that for sure. So you
can keep track of your achievements and personal best with fitbod and they're all new
progress tracking charts, learn new movements the right way with over a thousand exercise
demonstration videos. Again, it's never been easier to get the results you've always
wanted to check out fitbod. Get twenty five percent off your subscription at fitbod
dot me E slash Softcore f I T b O D dot m E slash
Softcore. Next up, we've got first Form. Go to first form dot
com slash Softcore History, and you'll get free shipping on all orders over seventy
five dollars when you use the link that's one s T P h O r
M dot com Slash Softcore History and look, you're gonnaet free shipping on all
over orders over seventy five dollars. And trust me, you're gonna spend seventy
five dollars or more. Not because the stuff's there, there's like crazy expense
for anything, but because it's all dope. Some of the best energy drinks
I have ever had, especially in terms of the levelness of the energy and
that you don't crash on it. I'm obsessed with any energy drink that can
do that in first form, does it as well as anyone. Their meat
sticks are incredible, twenty grams of protein in these things. It's not like
some dinky gas station meatstick. They've got great vitamins and stuff like that.
But we're here specifically talking about their Opti Greens fifty. It's a formulated green
superfood powder meant for overall immune system support and digestive health. Most of your
immune systems located in the gut, so it's important to keep you know your
gut and digestracy healthy. There's fifty ingredients effectively dosed. It's not you know
about how many ingredients, it's more about being the right amount of each.
It tastes really good. A lot of these green stuff is really grimy or
gritedy, and you know their greens powder. I have a bunch of home
sweetberry flavored tastes really good. One hundred percent of the greens are grown in
the US. They've got five different types. There's the Green Superfood Blend and
that is for vitamins and overall immune system support. The Fighter Nutrient Blend is
for immune health and you know, natural defense against toxins in the air and
the foods we eat. The glycemic Balance Blend is you know, for energy
throughout the day to prevent the highs and loves. The digestive Enzyme Blend is
for a better breakdown of food and you getting the nutrients you need out of
that food into your body. And the probiotic blend obviously for digestive health,
gut health, whatever first form. Everything that has awesome. I've never had
anything like it. Just my overall health has improved since I started using that
stuff. Highly recommend it. And again you'll get seventy five you'll get free
shipping on orders over seventy five dollars when you go to first Form dot com
slash soft Core History. Last, but not least, we've got ghost bed
ghostbed dot Com Forwards Last Drinking Bros. Come on, we know this,
We know these people. They're the best mattresses in the world, the best
betting in the world too, pillows sheets, weighted blankets, all kinds of
stuff. Everything is cooling technology. Right now, they're running two dope deals.
First one the bundle deal. You get forty percent off your entire order.
When you go to goosped dot Comforts Less Drinking Bros. Eat the promo
code. I'm sorry, goes ped dot com Forwards less Drinking Ros, and
you do one of their four matreses in the adjustable base. That's forty percent
off. You can put whatever else you want your cart from their more mattresses,
pillow sheets, whatever, however you need to shop a little more all
at cart. Maybe you already got the bed frames, you don't need the
base, that's fine. You can do get thirty percent off with the promo
code. Drinking Bros At gosped dot comforts last drinking Ros. So if you
need to buy like two mattresses, but you've already got the bases, bang
thirty percent off with the promo code drinking Rows. Maybe just want one one
little pillow thirty percent off with the promo code drinking Ros. Doesn't matter how
big or small the card is. Thirty percent off with the promo code drinking
Rows forty percent off if you do the bundle deal at goes ped dot com
forards less drinking rods. Check it out. These mattresses are the best anywhere.
You finance them zero down, zero percent interest. Don't need great credit
to get them. All made in America. It's like thirty five dollars a
month too on those matresses when you finance them, you're just not gonna get
a better deal and a better matches in it else ghostped dot Com, Force
Lestric Bros. Check it out. Sawyer apparently told Dyer personally that he had
actually been in town that Sunday night and heard them of the murders and was
afraid he may be a suspect, which is why he left. He just
keeps like doubling down, like how do you even know the killer was hot?
Oh, I was in town that night. I didn't see it,
and I'm hot, and I was worried about how like, cause I'm hot
and I'm not from there, and I bet like that guy wasn't from there.
And I'd heard these hot and wasn't from there. Yeah, but like,
I sleep with my axe. I like the story a lot, but
it's hot. That's how you know I didn't do it because I was a
sleep when it happened and I was sleep with my axe. Yeah, So
how could I done it if I was sleep with my axe? Weirdly enough,
Sawyer's axe could not be found after the murder, so Dyer was suspicious
and turned him over to the sheriff. He was actually one of the first
suspects of so June eighteenth, nineteen twelve is so same yere right Prior to
the sheriff arriving. Dire testified that he walked up behind Sawyer and Sawyer was
rubbing his head with both hands, and all of a sudden jumped up and
said to himself, I will cut your goddamn heads off. At the same
time, he made striking motions with the axe and began hitting the piles in
front of him. Hum huh huh weird. I think it was the drifter.
I don't know, it's not certain. There's so many good suspects.
Yeah, there's a lot of good suspects. Really, it's it's too many.
It muddies the waters. Yeah. Dire Son j R. Also testified
that one day, as the crew drove through uh Laliska, Sawyer told him
he would show where the man was who killed the more family got out of
the town. He said, the man did a good job jumping over a
manure box, which he pointed out, Oh wait, okay, this is
alarm bels now like now you're getting everything. I bet you what he did
is a good job. Here what he did, he hopped over that ship
out there. Yeah, I mean brilliant. Really okay, yeah, it's
him. It's the drifter. It's him. Now when you're getting like that.
He then pointed out one and a half blocks away where exactly where the
murder would have crossed the nil road track and where the footprints in the sagi
ground north of the impactment would be. He then said, look on the
other side of the car and he would show an old tree where he said
the murder stepped into the creek, and uh, this is the gentleman that
had the wet pants and the muddy shoes. Yeah. Yeah, it's all
circumstantial, unfortunately. But he's like, if you see you over there,
that tree stump, that is actually where the murderer sat down to eat his
salami sandwich. He could only find regular yellow mustard to put on the sandwich
that day, and it was white bread, and he likes white bread,
but he does also like sour dough, but he likes both. But he
was feeling like getting white bread that day. Yeah, but he was upset
about not in the right mustard. And anyway, that's where that probably happened.
And then he carved his name in the tree as could be anything,
could be anything. So there is a problem with him. What he was
arrested the same night in a different town. Oh what, no, dammits,
what the fuck? Oh he's just a pathological liar or he's just a
weirdo. This is like that show, uh fuck man, what was it
called. It was a Stephen King novel on HBO. Oh The Outsider,
Yeah yeah, yeah, whatever, yeah something like that where they like were
like they knew that, like he cloned himself off of other people, and
they knew they had taken the one guy's DNA, so they just had to
keep him in jail overnight. Yeah, so that when the police came calling,
they'd be like, dude, it's he was fucking here the whole time.
Yeah, yeah that. I kind of hated that show, but I
enjoyed it. I thought it was good. Jason Bateman getting taken down in
the first episode for like, damn it. I wanted more hymn. Yeah,
because every one was all hot on O's ark at the time. Yeah,
yeah, but that was I loved. I thought the show was great.
Uh yeah, pretty good, that's all right. We had two unrelated
confessions. Of course, I hate stolen whatever, the opposite of Valerius stolen
credit. Honestly, though, to them it is stolen valor. Oh totally
so yeah. Well and to the people trying to steal the valor, yeah
what like what, it's even worse to me than doing the crime somehow,
it's like you just want credit, yeah for this check out. Though these
are a little odd. These are a little off, of course they are.
They're confessions to murders, one of which is on a deathbed. Okay,
that's different. So a reverend in Oklahoma, JJ Burris declared that a
man whose name he was unable to recall, weird. Just you're gonna give
the last rites, But I asked for the man's name. Yeah, that's
weird, had a bedside confession where he said he committed the murders. Okay,
whatever, the clergyman said. The man told him that he was living
in town the time of the murder and formerly had been engaged in the blacksmith
business there. Okay, blacksmith acts. So they kind of limited it down
and they just couldn't come up with any you know, who else was a
blacksmith? Who our boy from Como. I read that on his Wikipedia page.
He worked as a blacksmith in Mobert Lee, Missouri. Mm, this
isn't him or no, they don't know who it is, right, Yeah,
I'm named so well the preacher didn't remember, Yeah, so could it?
I guess no, because Homie lived pretty long. He lived till he's
eighty two. Well, yeah, the preacher die though this confession was long
before that. The guy, the guy from Columbia, forget his name,
but he died in nineteen fifty six. I think we said, right,
yeah, so this was before that, Okay, okay, got it.
Well, No, he got out of jail in nineteen fifty six and he
lived longer. They don't know when he died, okay, but they do
know that he lived at the Salvation Army. Yeah, in downtown. Next
up, Detroit, March twenty eighth, nineteen thirty one. George Myers,
forty eight, prisoner in County jail, awaited sentencing for burglary. He confessed
to the axe murder of six people a man, his wife, and his
four children in the same town eighteen years ago. Wait six listened to But
that that actually confirms our theory of to two axes, buddy, axe murders.
Yeah, like just people appreciating each other's work man, nothing like it.
But his confession was after five hours of being grilled by two different detectives.
Ye confess who had received an anonymous tip by letter to check up on
the prisoner. Yeah, yeah, that's that's the No, no, no,
that's not it. They sent his fingerprints to the sheriff of Montgomery County
and they checked to see if the match with the scene of the crime.
They did not. No matches, So we got two potential just lies just
muddy in the waters even more man and we have so many suspects, but
it gets unsolved. It's a cold case today. The Vliska Axe Murderhouse serves
as a paranormal hotel, of course does, where groups of six or fewer
can pay four hundred and twenty eight dollars a night with kind of very low
accommodations. You have to bring your own sleeping bag for the most part.
In there, you just go to see if you can you can hear the
people, hear the family get murdered. But I don't want to do that.
I don't won on the Experienced, No. Two on the location hard
No. A lot of ghost hunters go there. We're just a lot of
those shows. Yeah, but is it even purported to be haunted. That's
why we want to go to Gettysburg because there's reports of like a report,
but they don't really know who it is, whether it's the ax murderer or
the people get I don't chopped up, not that I know how ghosts work
or anything, but I don't think the axe murder would be there. Oh
man, can I tell you guys the Halloween thing I watched today? Real
quick? Yeah, that's just as dark as wanting to go hang out with
dead children fucking in Villiska. Yeah, what's up? I turned it on
for Rory. Great start. It's like a kid's movie. It's like a
little kids movie. And it started Harland what's his name? The guy who
goes to jail and the Dave Chappelle movie Half Baked, Half Bake. Yeah,
the guy who goes to jail on Half Baked. Anyway, it's like
a movie with like talking dogs. Okay, the whole plot is like there's
humans, but the dogs talk to At the beginning, it's like nineteen thirty
seven, and this warlock is ritualistically sacrificing puppies to bring a dog from hell
sick. Okay, I'm into the show already. And then they all die,
but one of the dog's spirit doesn't totally cross over, so the dog's
ghosts just haunts the house and he's like trying, like the little boy that
owns him is like sad that he dies, but the and then so the
dog's ghost just stays there. And then the other dogs that can talk in
present day twenty eleven like go into the house on a dare and then they
see the ghost dog and then the plot unfolds from there. But literally,
like the first ten minutes is like a warlock killing puppies to bring a dog
out from hell? That is what was that rated? Gee? It's on
Disney Plus. I mean Corella Deville wants to just skin dog. Say,
that's very different though, like she just wants to make a coat, don't
want to bring a hell hound out. I think that's worse. It's more
flippant, more superficial. You're probably right, you know what I mean.
At least the warlock had like a grand plan. What was the plan after
he gets the dog from hell? He screamed at everyone in the town when
they were trying to arrest and that he was gonna make them his slaves.
So use the dog to enslave them to slave a small town somewhere. You
try that in a small town, Oh my god. So, rather than
ask who today's hitler is, because we don't really know, we're gonna do
a who done it? Who done it? Go? And I need your
best Benoir Blanc voice. Judging bah the situation at hand, I would have
to think it's none of these suspects, you see, they all have their
own faults, but that is because they are human and a lot of them.
I mean, you know, not maybe it doesn't lie. No,
so case closed. We don't know. Honestly, I think I think the
thing that makes the most sense to me is possibly Jones hiring a hit man
and in him getting off. Because Jones has power state senator, I think
there's a lot of corruption in that world, especially for in his alibis a
paste up. Yeah that's weird, Like that's not good enough now he oh,
someone made a check for me, Like, I just don't even understand
how the pay stuff works unless they have like proof that the guy went in
and got it right. But yeah, I don't know. I don't buy
that. I think I think Jones might have. I still am thinking Robos
serious now that I think about it, though, And I keep thinking he
actually did the thing where it's like I'll kill you with an axe, pig,
Like, I keep thinking he actually did that. I know he didn't,
but I think there's enough, especially with the competition with John Year took
his biggest client, the alleged affair with his daughter in law. He had
the most, he had the most reason to do it, He had the
most what's motive motivative? Yeah, he had the most motive by far,
by far, Robert, I believe it was a drifto lawyer, it was
the drift of addicted to cocaine and hired by the state senator. Okay,
different guy then, all right, yeah they I mean maybe someone else.
I think the state senator hired someone is what I can probably boil. Also,
what they say is Sawyer when he got arrested in that other town in
Iowa, it was eleven o'clock at night. The murders didn't happen until twelve
to five. Yeah, I mean I think he got processed and released.
Yeah, it could be. I mean, what was he what did you
get a risk for? You don't know how long? Isn't there yet?
I mean yeah, I imagine they have some sort of release record. But
also like here's the deal. They certain it's twelve to five or is that
their best guess? Yeah, because it's nineteen twelve, right, Like what's
changed since then? As far as like when we know people have died?
I don't know. Now I think you could tell it within an hour.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure you could just from you know, all the ship.
But yeah, I like that, that's a pretty big window to say
twelve to five and then okay, eleven he gets arrested, like, you
know, pretty sorry. What if what if they also doctored that up?
What if they got someone to just testify that he was arrested in a different
town at the same time. It's true, there's a lot of shit you
can muddy here, especially in nineteen twelve. You're just writing in pencil on
a piece of paper for so here. Well, it's for the state senator.
Qui bono for the other guy got paid, that's a quip bono.
And then he got paid for sue for defamation. Yeah, yeah, the
real fucking kick him in. It's like we thought we got him, Actually
we got that guy paid. No, we got got Yeah we were wrong.
Oh man, that's just it's really a sad story. It's the attic
thing, the idea of someone just being in your house waiting, like and
also if you're like a little kid just hiding here in your well, the
only one person was awake, right, Yeah, so you hear the family
that invited you over being brutally murdered as if you're like the kids in Jurassic
Park. Just hiding in the fucking kitchen. I don't think she heard until
the other person in the room with her was murdered, though, because otherwise
you just run the fuck out of there. I've looked at this is such
a small house. I know, right, it's so tiny, But it's
no way that the kids didn't hear the parents get murdered. Dude. Yeah,
and bro, we're sleepover and it creaks so hard, like I don't
know how he snuck up on them at all. Yeah, I've heard.
I've seen like the Paranormal ghost Hunter people go in and like every step you
tickets are well, no, it's way older now, you've added literally one
hundred years to it. No, I think that always ship would from day
one. Uh yeah, man, I I just really can't imagine. Like
I remember having like a slight fear of something weird happening when I would stay
at friend's houses, like, oh, this is the time to get got
you know, anxious kids. Shit. But that's got to be the worst.
I would be so mad if I died in anyone's house other than my
own fire murder, like I'd much rather become. You wouldn't get murdered in
the comfort of your own house. Yeah, like because at the end of
the day, that's where I want to be anyway. Yeah, my home,
Like it's like I'm somewhere's a sense of familiarity. Well that and it's
like, man, I should if I would have stayed at home, It's
true, would have reinforce me. Maybe there's something hanging on your walls,
or you have a little trinket or something on the desk that you can look
at as you bleed out. Yeah, it's like, oh comfort m h.
I don't know. There's no comfort in being murdered with an axe,
I guess, but but certainly not in an unfamiliar place. Yeah. Oh
no, it's all foreign right, Like you're already it's like, you know,
everything else sucks, Like if you like, the bathroom's weird, and
yeah, the smell is different. There's always a different smell. Smells are
always odd. Going to someone's house and it's like their house doesn't smell bad,
it's just different, but it's weird. Yeah. Uh, you guys
learned anything today. Nothing I didn't know about drifters. Rob just got things
confirmed for him today. Nothing I didn't know about cocaine users. Yeah.
Also that I learned that some people are really fucking weird. Like I already
knew that. But old the Andy Sawyer sleeping with his sleeping with that,
his axe jumping killball, What do you saying like I'll cut all their heads
off? Like yeah, your guard like p But with him, it's almost
like he's trying too hard to come across as the killer. Yeah, that's
why I don't believe it's what if he was a deflection, like he's keeping
the scent off, or what if he's like the OG crisis actor. What
if he just like knows he's not that strong or tough, so he's like,
the only way no one's gonna mess with me here out on the farm
lane is to act insane. Actually, I think he might be onto something
on that he sleeps clothed. I bet he had a bad experience with like
sexual assault, Yeah, and so he didn't want anyone to like right,
maybe he's having like he knows he can't fit people off. He sleeps with
an axe, he has ptsde he's probably like screaming about his harassers or assaulters
or whatever from a former incident. Honestly, that that doesn't surprise me.
At all. Right, and he knows too. He's like, I'm not
gonna beat anyone in a fight, so I have to make it seem like
you wouldn't never want to fight me because I'm got like I because I'm goddamn
insane, right right, that that wouldn't surprise me at all. For swear,
Actually, well that's all we got for today. Leave us who you
thought committed the murder? In the reviews. We have some reviews. Yeah
we got a bad review, let's hear it. Oh, I'm excited for
that one star. We have three stars, even coward Yeah from Leo maw
ten twenty five l e O m a U T that was that was your
dog? Yeah right, But Leo's like he was pissed because he kept late
leaving on the podcast for them for the dog. Yeah, dogs, that's
what we say. Leave it on for the dog. You don't have to
listen to us. Leo's just writing in like years they said. Uh,
And this is where it cuts deep because I'm like, do they know us
what they say? But maybe we just come off like this in general,
what they say? What they say? You want to hear a few frat
guys pretend to teach history while constantly interrupting each other with dumb Freddie jokes.
Oh well, the title is listen to this if you want to hear a
few frat guys pretend to teach history while constantly interrupting each other with dumb Freddy
each yaks sick three three stars. So they didn't hate it. Well,
they called the They called the Friday jokes dumb. Oh they are kind of
Yeah, they're just mad they didn't get a bid. Yeah, yeah,
but we have some good ones too. Uh Yo mama and then a bunch
of numbers after it. Wait is it yo yo mama or yo yoma?
Is yo mama? Oh? Damn it? Like talk like talking history with
my friends. Love listen to these guys because it's like when my friends and
I get together and chat sometimes, and when it's history, we just joke
around to uh kate the grape twenty two five out of five crickets. I
think I learned some things, but I definitely had fun along the way.
And then we did we do we really want about being high brow? Yeah?
Sure? Did we read that one? Oh? I don't know,
think so okay, Yeah, yeah, it's from September. We're part of
the one. Yes, we got a couple of news. We can read
it hopefully five stars. So first we had people attacking our banter. Yeah,
now we have people attacking the type of banter. Yeah, the type
of ba it's still the banter. Yeah, but they're getting more specific about
why they don't like the banter. That's OK. Yeah, I'm gonna continue
being me. Yeah. Patreon Doctor Slash Software History two additional episodes every week.
Go back, listen to the catalog for this feed. I mean everything's
ever green. So it was the Patreon, so you know, five bucks
a month on the Patreon you get just an entire back catalog if you like
us, if you like the banter, probably over one hundred episodes at this
point. Right at this point, I am yeah. Which, so gracery
dot Com from merch and again, try to leave a review. We appreciate
you. Tell a friend about the podcast. It's actually the best way to
grow word of mouth. Maybe word of mouth. Right, we try to
cash in on some SEO for Gaza, but you know that can only do
so much. The real people that can make a change in our lives are
you or World War three? Yeah, that too seems like we're more likely
for the latter. Yeah. Yeah, I have more faith in the world
excited to get drafted. So anyway, for Jake Goldman, Rob Fox,
I'm damnagester and you just got all served.