WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.240 --> 00:00:11.000 Little radical fundamental principles of freedom, rational, self interesting and individual wants. 2 00:00:13.960 --> 00:00:20.440 This is the Uran Brook Show. All right, everybody, welcome to you 3 00:00:20.519 --> 00:00:31.280 on book show Thursday equals twenty stop that beats me. Okay, all right, 4 00:00:31.559 --> 00:00:37.079 Um, anyway, today we've got an exciting show I think for everybody. 5 00:00:37.200 --> 00:00:42.320 Let me just make sure that the stuff works. Okay, now it's 6 00:00:42.359 --> 00:00:50.920 still give me once and continue every once in a while, everything has to 7 00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:53.799 be we whatever. All right, there we go. All right, We've 8 00:00:53.840 --> 00:00:58.840 got Greg with us today. Um, and I'm excited. I know many 9 00:00:58.880 --> 00:01:04.000 of you are too. And I've been anticipating asking questions. So we're going 10 00:01:04.040 --> 00:01:07.159 to dedicate most of the show today to answering your questions. So feel free 11 00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:12.719 to come up with um with questions. As I said, anything that I've 12 00:01:12.760 --> 00:01:17.959 said during a show, ask a philosopher that well, this is your opportunity 13 00:01:17.959 --> 00:01:21.560 to ask a philosopher. And we're gonna we're gonna start by covering a bunch 14 00:01:21.560 --> 00:01:25.319 of different topics and then and then cover you. So, um, I'll 15 00:01:25.359 --> 00:01:27.319 introduce great quickly. But I think you all know Greg. But he's a 16 00:01:27.359 --> 00:01:33.560 senior scholar philosophy at the Salem Center for Policy at the McCombs School of Business 17 00:01:34.319 --> 00:01:38.599 at UT Austin UM. He holds a Bring Him Fellowship for the Study of 18 00:01:38.599 --> 00:01:44.359 Objectivism at the Center and as a director of the Centers Program for Objectivity and 19 00:01:44.439 --> 00:01:49.959 Thought, Action and Enterprise. Hey, Greg, it's good. Oh, 20 00:01:49.959 --> 00:01:53.840 thank you, thank you. That is that is high praise. So I 21 00:01:53.840 --> 00:02:00.159 appreciate that. Um. Let's see, so Greg actually does listen. It's 22 00:02:00.159 --> 00:02:04.719 the podcast. I'm I and I'm I'm honored by that by that fact. 23 00:02:04.719 --> 00:02:08.560 So it's it's really it's really nice. So let's see. You know, 24 00:02:08.599 --> 00:02:13.879 I tended when was it? I can't even tell a month or two, 25 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:17.719 two ago, two months ago, something like that. I attended a seminars 26 00:02:19.240 --> 00:02:23.439 at the Center, at the Selim Center on on racism. So you do 27 00:02:23.479 --> 00:02:29.599 these workshops periodically, tell us a little bit about the format that thinking about 28 00:02:29.719 --> 00:02:31.919 behind it, you know what the purpose is, and then we can delve 29 00:02:31.960 --> 00:02:37.520 into the actual topics. Experiment with the format from time to time. But 30 00:02:37.560 --> 00:02:46.080 the idea is to get UM people together to talk through a topic. And 31 00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:50.879 there are several different types that we do. U. One, can can 32 00:02:50.919 --> 00:02:59.479 you ever be hear what's going on downstairs? My son's that's fine. One 33 00:02:59.639 --> 00:03:02.080 format is what I call kind of like a pow wow kind of conference that 34 00:03:02.120 --> 00:03:07.960 it's not really good temperate, but where people are relatively aligned in the premises 35 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:12.400 that they're coming to the issue from, usually as objectivist or objectivist sympathetic people, 36 00:03:12.400 --> 00:03:15.120 and where just trying to think through an issue, get our you know, 37 00:03:15.639 --> 00:03:20.080 process new information on it, or thicket through. And the workshop on 38 00:03:20.199 --> 00:03:24.199 racism was like that. I have another workshop on what I'm calling work to 39 00:03:24.240 --> 00:03:28.439 be Done in ethics coming up in a tople of weeks, and most of 40 00:03:28.479 --> 00:03:30.759 the ones I've done this year have been like that. Others of the workshops 41 00:03:30.759 --> 00:03:35.960 are ones where I just try to get together a broad range of people, 42 00:03:36.039 --> 00:03:40.479 usually including some objectivists besides myself, working on a topic the future interest, 43 00:03:40.919 --> 00:03:45.400 and those tend to have a format more where there are works in progress being 44 00:03:45.400 --> 00:03:49.439 discussed and something like that. I organized the conference says it was last epidemic 45 00:03:49.599 --> 00:03:55.039 year on work and well being, the role of you know, career in 46 00:03:55.360 --> 00:03:59.439 one's well being. There's a whole literature on well being in philosophy, which 47 00:03:59.439 --> 00:04:01.439 I think is interesting, one of the more interesting things going on, and 48 00:04:01.479 --> 00:04:04.639 it doesn't talk that much about career and work, and so that the idea 49 00:04:04.719 --> 00:04:10.240 was to bring those those topics together. We had people who are known for 50 00:04:10.240 --> 00:04:14.599 their writing home O beating there and from a range of ideological perspective on that 51 00:04:14.599 --> 00:04:18.360 one. The one on racism that the Uran ur apt was. The occasion 52 00:04:18.519 --> 00:04:24.639 was the Cists anniversary of Rand's essay on Racists written in nineteen fifty three. 53 00:04:25.079 --> 00:04:27.920 Um, and you know, it seemed to be the city's anniversary of the 54 00:04:27.959 --> 00:04:30.040 Civil Rights Act, which was one of the things she writes about in that 55 00:04:30.279 --> 00:04:33.720 in that essay. And I had the sense there's just a lot to say 56 00:04:33.879 --> 00:04:38.040 to kind of there's a lot of thinking that needs to be done about what's 57 00:04:38.040 --> 00:04:42.199 happened in the last sixty years, what to make of the claims Rand made 58 00:04:42.279 --> 00:04:45.720 in hindsight and recommend what things were she predicting that actually occurred, How did 59 00:04:45.720 --> 00:04:49.680 it it fit with it? Um? And so I just got um the 60 00:04:49.720 --> 00:04:55.079 most of what I think, where the smartest people with objectivism together on that 61 00:04:55.160 --> 00:04:58.800 of people who have in one way or another special interest or knowledge about this 62 00:04:58.839 --> 00:05:01.040 topic. That there's some students. I was working those fewer people who were 63 00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:08.160 around, and we were just kind of talking the issues through and hoping that 64 00:05:08.279 --> 00:05:12.360 that will put us all in a better position to comment on this issue in 65 00:05:12.680 --> 00:05:15.399 particularly next year and sixty four. Right, that's just going to be a 66 00:05:15.480 --> 00:05:18.800 lot of occasions for this, I hope. So let me ask you, 67 00:05:18.920 --> 00:05:24.160 so, So my guess is that a lot of people listening are thinking, 68 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:29.600 I mean, racism, what's there to talk about? Isn't this isn't this 69 00:05:29.720 --> 00:05:33.920 pretty a clear issue? We're against it? And I man wrote the essay 70 00:05:34.399 --> 00:05:40.360 and you know, and why why? What are the kind of the subtle 71 00:05:40.600 --> 00:05:45.279 or the or the complicated, or the things we really need to talk through 72 00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:49.079 and think that are relevant right now, relevant today that we have to have 73 00:05:49.160 --> 00:05:54.879 a position on That's non that's not obvious. Well, one thing is part 74 00:05:54.920 --> 00:06:00.120 of what really impressingly about I rand As I was writing the copanion dynagram and 75 00:06:01.079 --> 00:06:08.120 or editing the companion, but but co writing the chapter on her commentary on 76 00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:12.519 the events of her time, is that she didn't just have opinions on abstract 77 00:06:12.639 --> 00:06:16.279 issues racism's bad, communism, a fan or whatever. She had a story 78 00:06:16.360 --> 00:06:19.360 of what was going on in the world, what issues were important, what 79 00:06:19.560 --> 00:06:23.720 trends were there, what things were coming to for what was the effect of 80 00:06:23.800 --> 00:06:27.920 this election in knocking this issue out of the headlines to this other one. 81 00:06:27.959 --> 00:06:30.839 I mean, she had a real kind of take on the history of her 82 00:06:30.879 --> 00:06:33.360 time, and that was motivating her to choose the issues that she chose to 83 00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:38.959 talk about, to emphasize them and the emphasize others, and to have the 84 00:06:39.079 --> 00:06:43.160 take she had on I would vote for to give an election when the election 85 00:06:43.199 --> 00:06:45.879 didn't matter, and when it did, and what other things matter, and 86 00:06:46.680 --> 00:06:50.480 understanding the role of race and racism in American politics over the past sixty years 87 00:06:50.519 --> 00:06:55.000 and before um is I think something really word and I think, would you 88 00:06:55.199 --> 00:07:00.519 think rethink the role I was playing in politics in her time better? With 89 00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:03.879 some hindsight we saw how some of these movements developed. But also I think 90 00:07:03.959 --> 00:07:08.879 she made a lot of um, she makes some predictions about what we should 91 00:07:08.879 --> 00:07:13.480 expect to happen. Is to say that I think are not enough heated. 92 00:07:13.879 --> 00:07:17.879 So my sense growing up was that people tend to regard racism as the left 93 00:07:18.040 --> 00:07:26.399 issue, and they treat it as um whatever time you know, you're you're 94 00:07:26.439 --> 00:07:29.319 you're talking in They treated that as it was a real problem in the past, 95 00:07:29.519 --> 00:07:31.480 is fixed now and and all the things people want to do about it 96 00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:34.680 now are bad, and they're bad because there's not a problem anymore. There's 97 00:07:34.680 --> 00:07:42.839 a problems been fixed for most of them, and that that kind of feeling 98 00:07:42.879 --> 00:07:45.319 about it was the way people have acted about it in the eighties that I 99 00:07:45.399 --> 00:07:47.000 was married with, in the nineties and the two thousands and now, And 100 00:07:47.079 --> 00:07:50.879 I just don't think that it's a plausible position, and it's not a position 101 00:07:50.959 --> 00:07:56.879 that I think is in keeping with what she says in that article. So 102 00:07:57.199 --> 00:08:01.120 she thinks that as you make your laws more race conscious, and in particular, 103 00:08:01.639 --> 00:08:05.920 as you developed towards a more and more of a welfare state, what 104 00:08:07.120 --> 00:08:11.519 you should expect to see is increasing racial animosities, and that it should be 105 00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:16.959 particularly hard on the groups who are the minorities who are the victims of historic 106 00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:20.360 precudices. And I've come to think that that's true. Not everything that people 107 00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:24.800 who are on about racism these days claim is real is real, and their 108 00:08:24.839 --> 00:08:28.199 solutions to it are usually things that are going to make the problem worse. 109 00:08:28.680 --> 00:08:33.879 But if one has the kleinditive sense everything got fixed sometime in nineteen sixty four, 110 00:08:33.879 --> 00:08:37.159 in nineteen seventy two, well, I don't think that's realistic. And 111 00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:41.919 I think if you think about what the fixes we're supposed to be laws that 112 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:50.960 force people to integrate in their private businesses, laws that really pervert employment contracts 113 00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:56.320 and education and so forth. You wouldn't expect those to talk about. But 114 00:08:56.480 --> 00:08:58.519 moreover, there were things in the culture that were really good and pushing in 115 00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:03.720 an a racist direction, such that people were set up with Jim Crow weren't 116 00:09:03.720 --> 00:09:07.840 going to tolerated anymore. And and so I think there's it's not like every 117 00:09:07.879 --> 00:09:09.840 single ball A lot was right about the civil rights movement, as well as 118 00:09:09.879 --> 00:09:13.679 some things that were wrong with the laws that came out of it and with 119 00:09:13.759 --> 00:09:20.039 the direction it tooks. It's a kind of complicated historical thing going on where 120 00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:22.320 there's a movement that has a lot of good at it and some significant bad 121 00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:28.039 and that gets worse over time, and understanding its effects on the country, 122 00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:31.960 having effects of the laws of it. And also there's something this is going 123 00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:39.600 beyond Ram's piece, but there's a questions to why the movement of the nineteen 124 00:09:39.639 --> 00:09:43.200 sixties and early nineteen sixties was framed in terms of civil rights, which I 125 00:09:43.240 --> 00:09:45.919 think is a good and positive framing, and a lot of what they were 126 00:09:45.960 --> 00:09:50.559 advocating for was good and a lot better than what happened advocated for in terms 127 00:09:50.600 --> 00:09:52.519 of racial justice earlier than that or later in that, and so there are 128 00:09:52.600 --> 00:09:58.000 questions about why that was happening, and you know how to understand this development. 129 00:10:01.080 --> 00:10:05.679 Yeah, and you know, clearly we're living in a period in which 130 00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:09.879 racial issues have become you know, more of an issue, more of a 131 00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:16.519 problem, and they really all around us would obviously be alm in twenty twenty 132 00:10:16.600 --> 00:10:22.440 and everything around that, and you know, understanding where that comes from, 133 00:10:22.759 --> 00:10:26.279 critical race theory, understanding where that comes from with the context for that is. 134 00:10:26.600 --> 00:10:33.639 And yeah, political sides are around racial issues, Um, how little 135 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:37.600 of what's suggested a solutions to them? Our solutions. I think you see 136 00:10:37.639 --> 00:10:43.279 this in so many issues. We've become factualized and tribalized, and um, 137 00:10:45.080 --> 00:10:48.320 things are perceived as being pro or anti some group as most the pro or 138 00:10:48.360 --> 00:10:52.679 anti sub principle, and it ends up, you know, harming every yeah 139 00:10:52.919 --> 00:10:56.039 one of the people. Yeah, good, Sorry. There are certain kinds 140 00:10:56.080 --> 00:11:01.480 of law and institutions though that when they're in a society, are going to 141 00:11:01.720 --> 00:11:09.440 tend to um madnify the effects of prejudices people have that they're not they're not 142 00:11:09.519 --> 00:11:13.480 there explicit for you, but they're their prejudices that they're you know, maybe 143 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:18.759 not willing to express openly, and that will tend to UM preserve status for 144 00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:22.559 people who are politically connected and knowledgeable about how to use the political system and 145 00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:28.639 preserve lack of access to to um opportunities from people who don't. Uh. 146 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:33.919 And what kinds of things are like that? Well, um, the biggest 147 00:11:33.080 --> 00:11:37.879 is a public education system where you take a major factor of the economy and 148 00:11:37.960 --> 00:11:43.159 a major factor of people's lives and something that's to do with a very personal 149 00:11:43.240 --> 00:11:46.440 value that people cherish my kids and how they're going to rage and you collab 150 00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:50.519 and devise it, and so you make it that there's this system that's stoling 151 00:11:50.559 --> 00:11:54.679 out education to everybody m at a collective you know, and there's collective decision 152 00:11:54.759 --> 00:11:58.799 making about it. You can't come in and choose where you're going to go 153 00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:03.679 unless you do at a mani pulative us system. And whatever prejudices and fears 154 00:12:03.720 --> 00:12:11.000 and worries and concerns people have are going to they've got client together there. 155 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:13.320 And what's going to happen is that people who are good at getting politically connected 156 00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:18.240 are going to be able to get something that semi good for their kids and 157 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:20.240 people who are are not going to be able to do. Likewise, when 158 00:12:20.279 --> 00:12:24.480 you have laws that are non objective and unenforceable, unenforceable at scale, like 159 00:12:24.519 --> 00:12:28.000 a war on drugs, what's going to happen is it's going to get enforced 160 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:31.639 more on the people who are going to make less of us think about it 161 00:12:31.679 --> 00:12:35.080 getting encoursed on them. They have less access to high pricavoitism. So there 162 00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:39.120 are kinds of predictable things in the system. And then when you have the 163 00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:48.960 process of hiring an association sets that it's made litgic litigious around hiring and firing 164 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:52.159 of people of protected groups, what you're going to get is a lot of 165 00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:58.480 box checking around bath so that everybody is trying to be diverse in a politically 166 00:12:58.559 --> 00:13:05.399 correct, socially acceptable way and nobody is free to you're the kind of real 167 00:13:05.559 --> 00:13:09.639 entrepreneurial work that would be involved in having the most productive workforce you could have 168 00:13:09.759 --> 00:13:15.480 that integrates categories of people that weren't well integrated into it in creative, dynamic 169 00:13:15.559 --> 00:13:18.919 way. And so I think you see a lot of features in our economy 170 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:24.960 that you would expect to cause kind of stagnation and resentment on issues where there 171 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:26.960 had been a lot of prejudice, and I think that continues to exist. 172 00:13:28.120 --> 00:13:31.679 Is not the main story or the whole story of the twentieth century or twenty 173 00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:33.879 first century, but it's one of the factors that are there. And I 174 00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:39.559 think rather they're reacting to claims of persistent or institutional racism by saying there's no 175 00:13:39.679 --> 00:13:46.399 there, there, there's nothing that these are maybe misconceptualizations worth thinking about what's 176 00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:50.039 actually going on here. Which of the unjust policies we're already familiar with might 177 00:13:50.120 --> 00:13:54.799 be involvetimism and how do these things play out? So that's one of the 178 00:13:54.879 --> 00:13:58.159 things I've been thinking about, it having a racism And this all comes out 179 00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:03.240 of kind of the analysis of a mixed economy and the politics pool. And 180 00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:07.279 once you have a mixed economy, it's just a question which tribe you associated 181 00:14:07.360 --> 00:14:13.279 with to get your leverage. And one of the tribes that people associated with 182 00:14:13.480 --> 00:14:20.399 is a racial tribes or color skin tribes because they've viewed that way in because 183 00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:26.360 it gives them a big gives them a leverage. It's really really you're talking 184 00:14:26.360 --> 00:14:30.120 about this in an article in Nations Unity. Yeah, is one of our 185 00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:37.320 not enough read pieces. Yeah, and it's interesting because you don't think of 186 00:14:37.559 --> 00:14:41.559 Inanda's being concerned about a nation's unity, right, And she has this perspective 187 00:14:41.559 --> 00:14:48.480 and unity that is quite interesting and quite um and really important, particularly today 188 00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:54.960 when we're seeing such a disunited United States in the in the article on races 189 00:14:56.000 --> 00:14:58.720 of which she talked about groups that have come to act because their own destroyers 190 00:14:58.759 --> 00:15:05.559 and business then are often by advocating types of policies that um, you know, 191 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:11.320 end up getting them persecuted more. And um she thinks the leaders of 192 00:15:11.399 --> 00:15:15.039 the civil rights movement are you know, giving the business leaders a run for 193 00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:18.919 their money on that front. Uh, in nineteen twenty three when he's right, 194 00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:26.519 this is Martin Luther Kings, which you know M Marcus Garder L Yeah, 195 00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:31.600 I mean relatively speaking, these are good guys. Yeah, it's compared 196 00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:33.879 to anything we have today. These are good people. Um. But I 197 00:15:33.919 --> 00:15:37.879 think there's she's making some point. Yeah, there's a lot. You can 198 00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:41.879 see a lot about it in history. Well. I found I found the 199 00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:46.559 workshop really valuable, um, partially because a lot of history came out that 200 00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:50.840 I wasn't familiar with. And I got to meet Isaiah Slade, who I 201 00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:54.240 later interviewed on the show, which I thought was was terrific and he was 202 00:15:54.320 --> 00:15:58.159 a good yeah, just a lot. I really enjoyed getting can He's such 203 00:15:58.200 --> 00:16:03.279 a right guy that's really gotten going and we stopped it and yeah, and 204 00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:07.080 a real future intellectual who's going to have a voice out there, I think 205 00:16:07.159 --> 00:16:11.000 so. I think that's that's important. And having somebody like that at the 206 00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:15.919 workshop is incredibly valuable because his knowledge of objective he's still young, he's still 207 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:22.159 new to objectivism in many regards. Having him the exposed to everybody is incredibly 208 00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:26.200 It goes both ways. We benefited from him, and I'm sure he benefited 209 00:16:26.200 --> 00:16:30.279 a lot from exposure to some of the leading objectivist to intellectuals. In part, 210 00:16:32.200 --> 00:16:33.960 there were some weather problems that Austen to follow the game. He ended 211 00:16:34.039 --> 00:16:37.519 up staying out here for the better part of a week after that a week, 212 00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:41.320 okay, a lot more time interacted. There are a number of really 213 00:16:41.559 --> 00:16:49.879 right young people who I think are coming to philosophical and political issues in a 214 00:16:49.919 --> 00:16:56.039 way that's deeply influenced by objectivism and apart from all of the political tribes, 215 00:16:56.120 --> 00:17:00.720 and um, I think this is doing that. Not the only one, 216 00:17:00.759 --> 00:17:04.079 but Mohammed was also at that conference, and you know, I've been talking 217 00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:11.160 a lot about stuff. So um, you said you have some you have 218 00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:15.160 a workshop coming up on ethics, and yeah, so tell us a little 219 00:17:15.160 --> 00:17:18.359 bit about what the goal is and where you see kind of the work on 220 00:17:18.440 --> 00:17:22.559 ethics going from here. The next workshop we're doing is going to be next 221 00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:25.880 not just coming with him, but the weekend after, and it's on work 222 00:17:25.960 --> 00:17:30.640 to be done in ethics, and it's mostly academics with a background an objectivism, 223 00:17:30.680 --> 00:17:36.240 including students, but also some people who are do more popular writing. 224 00:17:36.880 --> 00:17:40.440 And we're getting together to read some of the you know, some sets of 225 00:17:40.599 --> 00:17:45.160 articles in contemporary athts, somebody objectivists, most not, and get a kind 226 00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:51.400 of read on some of the literatures that are out there. And basically from 227 00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:55.519 each topic we're covering with the workshop, I'm dividing it into two sessions, 228 00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:59.200 and the first one is just like, can we get to the bottom of 229 00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:02.480 this issue and figure what we think is right and on there? What's the 230 00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:06.279 truth here? The second one, the survipolions work to be done an athletics 231 00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:10.279 is Okay, what kind of writing projects might there be here? Primarily I'm 232 00:18:10.319 --> 00:18:12.759 thinking academic kind of writing just because of the people, but also popular writing. 233 00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:18.160 Um. And one of the things I'm trying to reinforce somewhat for myself 234 00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:22.240 but for everyone else there too, is that there's two separate bits of thinking 235 00:18:22.279 --> 00:18:26.880 you need to do, like what's true? And then now, okay, 236 00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:29.559 what can I write on this? Who's the audience I would be writing for? 237 00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:32.640 What are their premises already? What you know, they're not coming out 238 00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:34.559 from the same perspective I had. And um, there are a few young 239 00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:37.240 red students who who are interested in as it who are going to be part 240 00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:40.960 of this. But also, um, you know so little the philosophers. 241 00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:45.319 If you guys are familiar with UM, we'll be there and we're just going 242 00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:49.920 to be sort of strategizing what areas are worth researching more, what projects might 243 00:18:49.960 --> 00:18:56.000 be for writing. And this has meant to kind of inspire work going forward. 244 00:18:56.559 --> 00:19:00.640 And and here do you mean you know, theory in terms of something 245 00:19:02.440 --> 00:19:07.160 expanding on what Rand has already written on ethics in terms of theoretical stuff or 246 00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:12.759 application application to culture politics. Most of what we're doing at this workshop is 247 00:19:15.799 --> 00:19:18.240 theory stuff in meta ethics. What is human well being? Like, what 248 00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:22.279 is the role of reason in life? There's an interesting work being done on 249 00:19:22.359 --> 00:19:25.400 that and now and the weston is how can we engage with it? How 250 00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:27.519 can we um you know, get some trap to us at work. But 251 00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:33.759 there are also two fields where there are a number of people doing more applied 252 00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:37.480 work in ethics. One of them there are concentrations. One of them is 253 00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:44.440 bioethics and medical athets, just a few people who have found issues doing early 254 00:19:44.519 --> 00:19:47.880 in their careers doing work on that. And the other is business ethics. 255 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:51.759 And as it happens, just who is available for this conference. Most of 256 00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:53.480 the business as its people can get here in the medical asths of people. 257 00:19:53.480 --> 00:20:00.799 But so we're doing a period issues in medical ethics and bioethics. Well yeah, 258 00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:03.559 I have a follow up by Zoom or something on the business. Well 259 00:20:03.880 --> 00:20:07.720 yeah, I mean the bioethics is fascinating. I mean, I was I 260 00:20:08.440 --> 00:20:11.240 mentioned today the Audicle today and on the show The Audicle. I don't know 261 00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:17.440 if you've heard the news show this morning about the uh they're taking a skin 262 00:20:17.559 --> 00:20:21.960 cell and turning it into a I mean, it's fascinating stuff and gene editing. 263 00:20:22.119 --> 00:20:26.160 I mean, there's so much that is going to happen that is going 264 00:20:26.200 --> 00:20:30.039 to push the boundaries of how we think about human beings, about reproduction, 265 00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:34.839 about design of babies. I think in the next twenty thirty years. Yeah. 266 00:20:34.839 --> 00:20:38.599 I remember when the mouse stem cell study first came out. Yeah, 267 00:20:38.599 --> 00:20:44.279 because my wife and I were trying to get pregnant and trying by artificial meats 268 00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:47.160 and the problem was getting enough egg. Yeah, we could just do this. 269 00:20:48.519 --> 00:20:52.119 It's off and now they they could do it, you know male. 270 00:20:55.759 --> 00:20:59.119 Yeah, I think so, and and but also raises ethical issues. So 271 00:20:59.240 --> 00:21:03.920 I think it's a it's an exciting time to be in that field as some 272 00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:07.920 of these boundaries of being being pushed in terms of in terms of what and 273 00:21:08.039 --> 00:21:14.640 how how to pursue this research. It's also the ones that just connected to 274 00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:18.759 what we're doing a conference. One thing that I don't really understand too well 275 00:21:18.920 --> 00:21:23.599 is in Europe how some of the doctoral programs and post docs work. Is 276 00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:27.759 that people kind of in America, you you get accepted to a program and 277 00:21:27.799 --> 00:21:30.240 you find someone who will agree to be u dissication to provis when you write 278 00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:33.640 a dissication. But some of what happens in Europe is you're accepted into a 279 00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:38.359 particular program to work on a particular project. Often that's a cross disciplinary and 280 00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:42.200 there are a couple of people who've been through the OAC who have are in 281 00:21:42.279 --> 00:21:49.839 these kind of programs and their doctoral research is associated with some ongoing multidisciplinary project 282 00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:57.519 to do with bioles and research on environmental contaminants into what effect they might have 283 00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:00.440 on health and what ethical that you have, or there are a couple of 284 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:04.680 different things that it's not the person's own project then, but there are really 285 00:22:04.839 --> 00:22:07.640 issues in the project and they're thinking about how do I, you know, 286 00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:11.200 find work to do, how do I do things affect it within these contacts, 287 00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:14.279 And there are a couple of people with found the opportunities like this. 288 00:22:14.359 --> 00:22:17.319 So I think it's it's worth our getting our act together to think about what 289 00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:22.000 does it look like to apply the objectives deficits. Yeah, absolutely all right. 290 00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:25.880 So we've got a few questions I think here on on the on the 291 00:22:26.119 --> 00:22:32.079 racism issue, surmainers will just jump into those. Adam, Yeah, we 292 00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:34.319 can talk, we can we can go in and out of the questions. 293 00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:40.400 Um, Adam has a question. Um, thank you, Adam. That's 294 00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:45.720 very generous of you. Uh. Did did rand discuss a delineate between racism 295 00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:52.599 hating someone based on race versus prejudice that is coming across a menacing looking person, 296 00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:57.440 um, you know, being a grandmother in the dark. Alley does 297 00:22:57.519 --> 00:23:04.359 the view? Does does she view pre judgment versus racism um of an individual 298 00:23:04.519 --> 00:23:10.720 based on a class such as age, race as rational? Um? She 299 00:23:10.839 --> 00:23:14.720 doesn't. Can my knowledge talk about that in the article on racism. She 300 00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:22.119 has a very wide conception of racism. So it's a it's it's basically ascribing 301 00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:27.519 more moral characteristics to people based on their lineage. Um. So it's not 302 00:23:27.640 --> 00:23:32.079 even you know, black, white, or or as large as what you 303 00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:34.720 might call a raise the Japanese, the English or whatever. If you you 304 00:23:34.759 --> 00:23:38.119 know, think he's from a good family and therefore his dreams or sting, 305 00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:41.200 he's probably a venture or whatever. You know, that's um, that's the 306 00:23:41.240 --> 00:23:45.559 same the same thing he that called family values the kind of meni racism. 307 00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:48.920 And so one of the things we talked about is, you know, okay, 308 00:23:48.200 --> 00:23:52.599 granted the business broad kind of racism, of biological determinism, what are 309 00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:56.960 the other concepts that we um, you know, my call racism and how 310 00:23:56.960 --> 00:24:00.400 do they relate? Um? But she does. If you're talking about snap 311 00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:03.920 judgments, you might make them somebody there from they're hearing. She certainly does 312 00:24:04.039 --> 00:24:07.359 talk about it them. I mean she thinks that's what an emotion, right, 313 00:24:07.640 --> 00:24:11.119 It's a snap assessment. You have them something based upon you know, 314 00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:18.920 automatically calculated by your subconscious, based upon um, you know what appears to 315 00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:22.839 you, and you could have them for people, and the various things about 316 00:24:22.839 --> 00:24:27.240 them can trigger you and people. I don't think those emotions as such are 317 00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:33.319 either rational or irrational, but you have to think about how to act on 318 00:24:33.400 --> 00:24:36.440 them. Can you trust them? You can't regard them as a source of 319 00:24:36.519 --> 00:24:38.680 knowledge. You might have to act on your emotions and you know, if 320 00:24:38.680 --> 00:24:41.559 you have a split second decision to make that to what they're therefore, but 321 00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:45.440 you need to recognize that they're not accurate. And I think now this isn't 322 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:51.160 something Rand says herself. But if you're in a situation you're in a career, 323 00:24:51.200 --> 00:24:53.240 for example, where you're finding that you often have to act on snap 324 00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:56.799 judgments. You know, someone who runs in differing buildings and us direct be 325 00:24:56.880 --> 00:25:02.319 people or a police officer or whatever it might be, then you might really 326 00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:06.160 want to think about what you can do to uh, you know, tune 327 00:25:06.200 --> 00:25:08.440 these kind of snap judgments to be more accurate, And I think it's a 328 00:25:08.440 --> 00:25:14.119 psychological question what you can do and what works and what doesn't do exactly well, 329 00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:17.200 I think I think part of what he's asking is, so if you're 330 00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:21.920 if you're in a dark alley and you're in a city where, uh, 331 00:25:22.279 --> 00:25:26.599 you know, disproportionately crime is committed by uh, you know, black people. 332 00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:30.599 Let's say so members of particular ethnicity or raise or something, and somebody 333 00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:38.680 of that ethnicity approaches you, is it irrational to take into account that ethnic 334 00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:42.880 background or that color skin in deciding whether it across the street or to run 335 00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:48.279 away or to do whatever, whether that's the emotion or whether rationally if you 336 00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:56.519 if you're thinking it through, Yeah, if we're talking about you have time 337 00:25:56.559 --> 00:26:00.440 to make a rational assessment that are you're trying to think it through? You 338 00:26:00.680 --> 00:26:06.519 always have so much other information besides the color of their skin and their physiopommy, 339 00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:08.559 how are they walking and they're moving to a two quickly or slowly? 340 00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:11.400 How are they dressed? This is going on? What you know? Are 341 00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:17.160 they looking right at you? We're looking away? And I suspect that people 342 00:26:17.319 --> 00:26:23.119 are overinfluenced by racial sey types of these things. But of course you should 343 00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:27.359 take it down all the information you have. I just wonder that people sometimes 344 00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:32.079 think that's what they're doing, and it's time yea, and they they come 345 00:26:32.119 --> 00:26:34.799 to snap decisions or they or they base their decisions on emotions. They're not 346 00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:41.400 actually using reason in making those coming to the conclusions. Right, thank you, 347 00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:47.359 Adam. We've got another Adam. The other says immigration laws have been 348 00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:52.720 historically interwined with racism, especially anti Asian racism. Why are obstacles to immigration 349 00:26:52.839 --> 00:26:57.880 so seldom integrated into the discussion of racism. I think that's a really good 350 00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:00.839 point. It's a good point on a few levels. Um. So, 351 00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:06.000 further way, we have the Chinese exclusion app which was awful, and um, 352 00:27:06.079 --> 00:27:10.000 you've had other you know, the whole history of debates over immigration have 353 00:27:10.119 --> 00:27:14.559 had to do with with with race. Um. But also there's another way 354 00:27:14.759 --> 00:27:18.119 to the fact. If you have laws on the books, let's say that 355 00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:25.039 you can't racially discriminate, right, Um, then I think that bad is 356 00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:33.000 a reason for people to be less open to immigration. They suppose you think, 357 00:27:33.079 --> 00:27:37.480 for example, that people coming over from a certain Muslim country are likely 358 00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:40.079 to bring their value their people from the health or whatever it is. There's 359 00:27:40.119 --> 00:27:42.440 some place where you think their culture is bad, the people who are coming 360 00:27:42.519 --> 00:27:47.319 over from this place are going to bring their culture and in et ceteras, 361 00:27:47.400 --> 00:27:51.000 it's it's it's it's somehow going to be bad, whether you're right or wrong 362 00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:53.839 on that. Right, But suppose you have that kind of concern, well, 363 00:27:53.960 --> 00:27:56.720 it's a lot different. We're gonna have to deal with them. Don't 364 00:27:56.759 --> 00:28:00.799 don't hire these kinds of people if you think because they're there, you can't 365 00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:02.960 keep them out of the country. To some of the people who want to 366 00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:04.319 be able to whole deal with them, and then let's similar to the event, 367 00:28:04.359 --> 00:28:07.440 it's no, it's not your problem, right, Um, But if 368 00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:11.799 you're forced to be blind to these kinds of same considerations that you yourself, 369 00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:15.960 whether correct and you're in concent correctly, um think are relevant to hiring once 370 00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:19.200 the people are in the country. Um that I think you know, there's 371 00:28:19.240 --> 00:28:22.640 a reason to worry that people are being shoved down your throat. The less 372 00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:27.799 you are free to build the association, the more lawsibility there is the resentment 373 00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:32.519 of people being in a feeling you're feeling like they're voice. These issues are 374 00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:37.039 really connected, and I think most of the opposition, or very much of 375 00:28:37.119 --> 00:28:41.200 the opposition to immigration does come from racial prejudices, and I think you are 376 00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:48.039 unjustified and getting wrong. UM. Nevertheless, I think this dynamic UM plays 377 00:28:48.079 --> 00:28:55.759 into all right, So UM, so let's talk about some of the other 378 00:28:55.880 --> 00:29:00.000 workshops that are coming up. There's the ethics on that's in a couple of 379 00:29:00.039 --> 00:29:03.599 weeks, and then what follows that. So we have two that we're doing 380 00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:07.240 in June that you're coming out for. Ye a few other people are on. 381 00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:11.160 I usually talk about these publicly better than we So UM. One is 382 00:29:11.359 --> 00:29:15.359 on philosophy of economics, and the occasion for that is there are a couple 383 00:29:15.440 --> 00:29:21.559 of UM people in graduate programs and economics are going into economics, and I 384 00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:23.920 believe we're going to get robbed tar out for that last they booked the good 385 00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:30.440 and we're going to talk about kind of UM issues at the intersectional philosophy the 386 00:29:30.519 --> 00:29:36.440 connomics that are of particular interest to objectivists or people as a background and objectivism 387 00:29:36.920 --> 00:29:40.799 particularly given the kinds of economics that they're they're likely to study and they're going 388 00:29:40.839 --> 00:29:44.000 to study them. And then the other one that's connected to that only and 389 00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:48.559 that there's a lot of common interests is uh we want to get some people 390 00:29:48.599 --> 00:29:52.920 together to think about the role of UM, probability, mathematics, statistics in 391 00:29:53.079 --> 00:30:00.359 good reasoning, and we used to go right and Rome with that. There's 392 00:30:00.359 --> 00:30:06.920 a lot of emphasis on Bayesianism in the pencilcle rationalist community coming out of Silicon 393 00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:08.319 Vallee and outs, where a lot of these people are very influenced by called 394 00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:15.039 Paper and UH and others UM. Of course the docific influence on them as 395 00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:18.640 a kind of transmission belt for paper people who've read this book. There have 396 00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:22.079 been some UH some books, so I thinks have a lot right about them, 397 00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:26.839 Like there's a book The Scout Mindset by I forget her name on it 398 00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:33.759 rationally rather than defensively UM. But there's a lot of UM ways that they're 399 00:30:33.799 --> 00:30:36.920 thinking about using probability that I finally got to do the hest of others and 400 00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:40.440 seem like there's something right about them, but also something's wrong about them. 401 00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:44.279 And so I know you've had the same observation and others have it. And 402 00:30:44.440 --> 00:30:48.480 probability has been discussed by objectivist epistemologists here and there over the years, but 403 00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:52.400 not I think really gone to it up depth about And so this is the 404 00:30:52.440 --> 00:31:00.519 gathering of people who either know epistemology well and who are know the use of 405 00:31:00.599 --> 00:31:10.160 staffs well for one reason or not to do with Ye. Yeah, I'm 406 00:31:10.200 --> 00:31:14.319 looking forward to both of those. I mean, the the stat one also 407 00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:19.079 kind of rose to my attention because I read Pinker's book on rationality and and 408 00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:27.480 really for Stephen Pinker, rationality thinking generally comprises of basically doing probabilities, or 409 00:31:27.559 --> 00:31:33.839 big chunk of what he considers thinking is getting the probabilities right. And and 410 00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:37.200 I know a lot of people who think that way, and almost all of 411 00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:44.240 them people in the financial world, where you do a lot of probabilities, 412 00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:49.400 and who are good poker players. Again, because poker is a probability game. 413 00:31:49.480 --> 00:31:56.039 It's it's it's about knowing the probabilities of every hand. And that intersection 414 00:31:56.119 --> 00:32:01.960 about what it what, what it what? What constitutes? What epistemological status 415 00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:07.640 does probability have? I think is very interesting. UM. And in some 416 00:32:07.880 --> 00:32:13.640 cases some of what people are suggesting are talking about around probability. UM. 417 00:32:14.039 --> 00:32:17.960 In case where I don't think it's literally correct, UM strikes me as a 418 00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:23.720 kind of two concrete version of something that is correct. More attracted, like 419 00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:28.559 when you're doing a certain kind of thing you want to attract probabilities literally and 420 00:32:28.680 --> 00:32:31.400 think about, well, how often did my predictions come out? Did all 421 00:32:31.400 --> 00:32:35.559 those things I thought were thirty percent likely to you know, two third of 422 00:32:35.599 --> 00:32:37.400 them come out right or not? And then how am I little adjustment? 423 00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:40.319 Is the kind of thing um, the scott All exam you're talking about about, 424 00:32:40.640 --> 00:32:45.000 UM, that kind of thinking seems to be just right for certain kinds 425 00:32:45.079 --> 00:32:47.920 of things. Yes, if you're making predictions, for example, UM. 426 00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:52.799 For other kinds of thinking, I think it's not plausible, but there is 427 00:32:52.920 --> 00:32:57.720 something that you need to be doing that that to kind of you know, 428 00:32:58.039 --> 00:33:00.160 that's the version of it in some fields. What's the word? You know? 429 00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:02.960 Another what's the abstraction? What did it look like to be checking integrating 430 00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:09.920 your work over time, error checking UM and and UM and refinding your methods 431 00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:15.400 of knowing and judging? Yeah, I mean, I think I think there's 432 00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:20.880 there's a lot there's a lot of work to be done in that area that 433 00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:23.839 objectives haven't yet done yet. You know, there's there's been some relationship to 434 00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:25.799 it, but there's a lot of work to be done. Yeah. Great. 435 00:33:27.319 --> 00:33:30.759 The literal stats you know you need to use not just you put a 436 00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:32.440 number on your hunches, which you have. There's too much of what goes 437 00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:37.680 on congressionality community, but where you know you're actually doing regressions and things. 438 00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:42.000 Um, you know what's good and bad use of statistics, and you you've 439 00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:45.240 had some shows on us that have been I have been really good. Yeah, 440 00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:46.960 I mean I'm I'm I think i'm I'm fairly good at catching some of 441 00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:52.480 the bad uses of statistics. But but move on a practical level. But 442 00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:54.359 again there's there's a lot of thinking and there's a lot of you know, 443 00:33:54.440 --> 00:33:58.400 they have been There has been a lot of work done by non objectivists about 444 00:33:58.440 --> 00:34:01.599 how to lie with statistics and how statistics can be a distorted and a lot 445 00:34:01.640 --> 00:34:07.200 of that work is is good work. It's um, it's true. Apollo 446 00:34:07.319 --> 00:34:10.760 Zeus says, any duke, Yes, any any I know any duke? 447 00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:14.880 Any duke is she? She won the world Championship with poker a couple of 448 00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:19.400 times. She's the most famous female poker player. And I have I have 449 00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:23.239 a book here signed. She's a she's a friend, so she's a character. 450 00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:28.400 She would be interesting to talk to her about statistics and how how she 451 00:34:28.599 --> 00:34:31.000 runs the odds in her mind as she's playing poker. I mean you need 452 00:34:31.079 --> 00:34:36.480 a unique mind to do that. Uh, I know. Do you play 453 00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:39.360 poker? Great? Well, no, well I don't play it. Well. 454 00:34:39.719 --> 00:34:45.440 I enjoy it because of the banter. I enjoy harassing the other poker 455 00:34:45.519 --> 00:34:47.360 player and trying to get under their skin. But other than that, I'm 456 00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:51.639 not a very good poker player. There was a period when the app store 457 00:34:51.679 --> 00:34:55.000 first came out of the iPhone, one of a couple of apps, and 458 00:34:55.039 --> 00:34:59.480 I was playing it a lot as I was doing it bad, trying to 459 00:34:59.480 --> 00:35:02.400 get mind dog that I got better at it then. And I remember I 460 00:35:02.440 --> 00:35:06.760 went to I was at Vegas for something, and I sat at the table 461 00:35:06.840 --> 00:35:08.920 and just kind of sad. I'm hardly bad until I had a really good 462 00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:13.039 hand and one a few hundred dollars, and then I'm said, I'm never 463 00:35:13.119 --> 00:35:22.079 playing games. Yeah, well that reminds me. I should pitch okon to 464 00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:24.039 this crowd. You guys should all come to okon. And one of the 465 00:35:24.199 --> 00:35:27.679 one of the fun things we do with okon is played pocus. So there 466 00:35:27.760 --> 00:35:32.159 was a poker tournament, which is a lot of fun. That's true. 467 00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:37.239 That's true. And I do play in the ocon games and I do try 468 00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:39.920 to get under people's skin, and I think I'm quite effective at it. 469 00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:43.199 It's a lot of fun. There's a lot of bands that goes on, 470 00:35:43.400 --> 00:35:47.039 which is which is fun? Um. So with the economics the philosophy ecnonomicis 471 00:35:47.079 --> 00:35:55.239 give us some um idea of topics that are kind of cross between economics and 472 00:35:55.679 --> 00:35:59.719 UH and philosophy. I mean they can think of one obviously, with with 473 00:36:00.039 --> 00:36:06.199 well up talk coming, he famously wrote an article about objective value and the 474 00:36:06.280 --> 00:36:12.840 objectivist conception of objective value versus the Austrian conception of a subjective value series of 475 00:36:13.039 --> 00:36:16.840 value in economics that Healy relate to the philosophical series of value. That's one 476 00:36:16.920 --> 00:36:20.920 topic. I need input of other people. And one of the thing that 477 00:36:20.960 --> 00:36:23.400 about to sending email out about to a few people is what other topic? 478 00:36:23.920 --> 00:36:32.039 There are some others? Um. A lot of the the economists that are 479 00:36:32.119 --> 00:36:37.639 good, A lot of the Austrians and others are attracted to anarchism and some 480 00:36:37.719 --> 00:36:40.039 other ideas that are an audious objectivism. Why use that and how do we 481 00:36:40.159 --> 00:36:45.119 understand how we navigate that? Um? What about the views of human nature 482 00:36:45.199 --> 00:36:49.400 that are often assumed in economics, like human beings are maximizers and so forth? 483 00:36:49.719 --> 00:36:52.840 Is that true? It's not true? Okay, well then um is 484 00:36:52.880 --> 00:36:55.840 it wrong? Let it be In economics it's an approximation that's good enough for 485 00:36:55.920 --> 00:37:00.519 certain purposes, not for others. How does what you say? What about 486 00:37:00.599 --> 00:37:05.760 the ways that are kind of like uasai economic that people try to model things 487 00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:08.679 like in for example, public choice theory or various types of game theory that 488 00:37:08.679 --> 00:37:13.440 are applied to foreign policy for real politics, it's just a valid kind of 489 00:37:13.559 --> 00:37:15.840 method or not as they valid in some cases about in other cases? How 490 00:37:15.880 --> 00:37:20.840 does it relate to a more principled ways of thinking about our policy? Whew? 491 00:37:20.840 --> 00:37:23.079 You take seriously go to an evil behind a lot of these things, 492 00:37:23.119 --> 00:37:28.880 a kind of assumption that there's a particular way that people are motivated and that's 493 00:37:28.960 --> 00:37:32.440 kind of uniform across people. But that's not true. So how much does 494 00:37:32.480 --> 00:37:35.760 it matter if that's not true? And for which of these cases does it? 495 00:37:36.039 --> 00:37:38.719 What would an economics that took more seriously position and the diversity of values 496 00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:45.440 look like? What is value formation and how does that relate to a series 497 00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:52.000 of value with the economics Going back to Tar's work a paper, to what 498 00:37:52.119 --> 00:37:59.679 extent do you find how is rend view of value distinctive, particularly with regards 499 00:37:59.679 --> 00:38:02.639 to that it's not all some fixthed end that you just calculate the means to 500 00:38:02.760 --> 00:38:06.880 some end that we all share people of different values, some rational and some 501 00:38:07.039 --> 00:38:09.199 irrational. What it did for value to irrational? I was it formed? 502 00:38:09.800 --> 00:38:14.079 Um? And so forth. Yeah, I mean, I think when you 503 00:38:14.159 --> 00:38:20.920 read what is Capitalism, it's astounding how epistemological that auticle is. And so 504 00:38:21.039 --> 00:38:27.159 there's a whole question about the relationship between epistemology and economics, whether it's around 505 00:38:27.199 --> 00:38:32.679 objective values. Um. Also, I think it's interesting to talk about the 506 00:38:32.880 --> 00:38:40.679 whole behavioral economics literature, the the the biases, the Colman and others who 507 00:38:42.159 --> 00:38:47.519 have documented kind of biases that people have UM in the economic behavior to the 508 00:38:47.880 --> 00:38:55.760 numbers and math and rationalitics, statistical devices also, as it turns out, 509 00:38:57.119 --> 00:39:02.880 bridging conversations, but some of the work being done by the people as advices 510 00:39:02.920 --> 00:39:10.119 and research interested. Yeah. Yeah, yes, the whole behavioral biases thing 511 00:39:10.280 --> 00:39:14.960 is is a big deal in academia and in a lot of different fields. 512 00:39:15.159 --> 00:39:19.639 I mean, um, um, Okay, let's let's go back to the 513 00:39:19.719 --> 00:39:27.559 questions um Andrew asks can Gregg expound in man's life as the ethical standard and 514 00:39:27.760 --> 00:39:32.280 each man's life as his purpose. All those two principles in different contexts, 515 00:39:32.519 --> 00:39:38.559 are they connected? I think they're connected. So for each person his own 516 00:39:38.679 --> 00:39:44.239 life is his purpose. That's equivalent to his happiness being his purpose. But 517 00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:50.599 because happiness is the emotional state you feel when you're succeeding and living in your 518 00:39:50.599 --> 00:39:52.480 life is going well, when you're living in a way, it's going to 519 00:39:52.599 --> 00:39:58.920 sustain your time when your your joints are non contradictory because all your values are 520 00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:04.639 this interaction. UM. So that is the purpose as an individual's life or 521 00:40:04.679 --> 00:40:08.960 happiness, the standard of man's life UM. And the standard is abstract where 522 00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:14.760 the purpose is concrete. The standard is like a principle for a now a 523 00:40:14.840 --> 00:40:20.400 type of thing human beings that you use to create a particular thing a life 524 00:40:20.440 --> 00:40:24.280 for yourself. So in if you're if you're a doctor, that's um, 525 00:40:24.440 --> 00:40:30.119 you know, um operating on somebody's body. Um. Your goal is is 526 00:40:30.239 --> 00:40:34.800 that person's health, right, that's what you're trying to achieve, but you 527 00:40:35.079 --> 00:40:37.719 work out how to achieve it by the standard of human health. You know 528 00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:39.920 what a spleen is for in general, if it's for anyzing And now the 529 00:40:40.280 --> 00:40:43.639 arts meant to work in general, it's for a human being, and you 530 00:40:43.840 --> 00:40:49.039 use that knowledge to guide you to help fix up this particular person um Likewise, 531 00:40:49.159 --> 00:40:52.800 you use knowledge of human life in general, what kind of thing it 532 00:40:52.920 --> 00:40:57.880 is, what components it needs to um to make your own life better, 533 00:40:57.920 --> 00:41:00.280 to make your to make a human life for yourself. The one thing I 534 00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:05.239 want to kind of add to that that's maybe a little less obvious that has 535 00:41:05.320 --> 00:41:09.079 been more and more parted by taking on this topic lately, is and which 536 00:41:09.159 --> 00:41:15.039 isn't is obviously suggested by the medical analogy, is how much creativity is involved 537 00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:20.079 in coming up with a life for yourselves in the in the end, in 538 00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:22.840 pursuing your own life. In the healthcare case, you might think it's there's 539 00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:25.679 one way the organizers of us to function, and if yours are and I'm 540 00:41:25.679 --> 00:41:30.719 going to try to steer them into that nature or you know, apply drugs 541 00:41:30.840 --> 00:41:34.639 or surgery is needed to get it into that niche. And it's all the 542 00:41:34.719 --> 00:41:38.079 same for everybody. But what makes a human life work is much more abstract 543 00:41:38.239 --> 00:41:43.559 than that there is at a concrete level, though one way we all live 544 00:41:44.840 --> 00:41:46.480 to get that there's one way that human means if you have to go very 545 00:41:46.559 --> 00:41:50.920 extract. You have to be rational, We have to be productive, we 546 00:41:51.039 --> 00:41:53.400 have to be purposeful. Therefore, our lives have to be organized around goals, 547 00:41:53.760 --> 00:41:57.400 not have half begaun Those goals have to be productive, at least the 548 00:41:57.440 --> 00:42:02.199 central one. Otherwise you're going to quickly run those resources and then everything would 549 00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:06.599 pulling against one another. We need to be justin at the other version. 550 00:42:06.639 --> 00:42:10.159 But these are every's every abstract you can you know, you know, hurting 551 00:42:10.199 --> 00:42:15.559 the sheep or writing philosophy books or composing a symphony or you know, baking 552 00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:17.119 a loaf of bread, and you know, and any of these things to 553 00:42:17.239 --> 00:42:21.920 be your your avocation or a parent or whatever, and you can still deal 554 00:42:21.960 --> 00:42:29.320 with these principles. So a lot of what's involved in making your own life 555 00:42:29.360 --> 00:42:31.760 for yourself is figuring out coming up with a life to yourself. One of 556 00:42:32.119 --> 00:42:37.280 the cardinal values for endous purpose and purposes your choice of the happiness which your 557 00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:40.599 reason is going to proceed to achieve. And I don't think that choice is 558 00:42:40.639 --> 00:42:45.679 just you choose happiness as opposed to unhappiness or not making a choice at all. 559 00:42:45.840 --> 00:42:47.880 No, you choose like this, this is what my life's going to 560 00:42:47.920 --> 00:42:52.599 be about. And the principles of ethics. I think it is sort of 561 00:42:52.679 --> 00:42:57.880 like the principles of composition, Like if you're making an artwork, or you're 562 00:42:57.880 --> 00:43:00.639 going to make your own specific artwork. You're writing at my shrug, you're 563 00:43:00.639 --> 00:43:05.039 painting the Mona Lisa, you're writing this song, or who's sculpting the data. 564 00:43:05.079 --> 00:43:08.639 There's some particular sculpture you're making with a theme and everything integrated around that, 565 00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:14.719 And the principles of art are about how to do that, how to 566 00:43:14.920 --> 00:43:19.840 make whateverything you're making wells that it functions as a sculpture, as an artwork, 567 00:43:20.119 --> 00:43:22.480 And likewise, the principles of ethics, or how to make a human 568 00:43:22.519 --> 00:43:25.800 life to yourself, what principles does it have to have to hang together into 569 00:43:25.880 --> 00:43:30.800 a self sustaining all that will sustain you across the human life then able to 570 00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:37.360 live a able you to be happening. All right, thank you, Andrew. 571 00:43:39.719 --> 00:43:44.400 Oh wow, okay, this is from India. Hello from India. 572 00:43:44.760 --> 00:43:47.159 In Rand's novels, people are black or white heroes of villains, but in 573 00:43:47.239 --> 00:43:52.000 the real world a person's psychology, knowledge and context make it difficult to slot 574 00:43:52.079 --> 00:43:58.000 them. So young readers get confused and can be obnoxious to which people around 575 00:43:58.119 --> 00:44:01.159 them, and he thoughts, this is funny because we're actually just talking about 576 00:44:01.199 --> 00:44:07.400 this before the show started, about how young objectivists have a hard time categorizing 577 00:44:07.480 --> 00:44:14.039 people and they treat them in appropriately as a consequence of this. Yeah, 578 00:44:14.639 --> 00:44:16.880 I don't think you could overstate the extent to which it's true. In Ram's 579 00:44:16.960 --> 00:44:22.199 novels, there were complex characters Um Gail Wine and hero or villain, well 580 00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:27.599 elements of each, Even Guy Frank, an overall bad guy that has some 581 00:44:27.719 --> 00:44:31.599 real redeeming characteristics that set him apart from um, from some of the other 582 00:44:32.119 --> 00:44:37.840 um weird and throughout most of the novel, right, a hero but acting 583 00:44:37.880 --> 00:44:42.480 on the wrong critical than Datney Hacker for that matter, I'm acting self destructively. 584 00:44:42.760 --> 00:44:45.719 He's the guiltiest man in the room. What a different disco, A 585 00:44:45.800 --> 00:44:49.320 room that includes Jimmy Tacker, right, yeah, and all kinds of really 586 00:44:49.400 --> 00:44:57.960 artable. So it's not, Um, there's more. It's not everyone's all 587 00:44:58.039 --> 00:45:01.039 black or all white in her novel. Um, it's that the gray that 588 00:45:01.119 --> 00:45:06.000 there is, the complexity is resolvable down into bits of black and white, 589 00:45:06.519 --> 00:45:12.159 kind of like with yourn shirt and uh, and you don't need that many 590 00:45:12.199 --> 00:45:15.239 steps to do the resolvent In real life, I think it's a lot more 591 00:45:15.320 --> 00:45:19.480 complicated, a lot more steps, a lot more subtle. Piece. I 592 00:45:19.519 --> 00:45:22.960 think it is ultimately resolvable into this act was good or bad, This aspect 593 00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:27.400 of this person's character is good or bad. This part of their life, 594 00:45:27.719 --> 00:45:30.239 their professional life, their family life, their romantic life, that whatever is 595 00:45:30.280 --> 00:45:34.800 good or bad. But it takes work to sort those things out, and 596 00:45:34.920 --> 00:45:37.119 that it might be, you know, pretty small compartments you have to get 597 00:45:37.159 --> 00:45:39.639 down to to get to where they're pure water or pure or the other. 598 00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:44.639 And there's a lot of thinking about how the different factors interact. But I 599 00:45:44.719 --> 00:45:47.239 think that's true, and it's you know, it's part of what one learns 600 00:45:47.280 --> 00:45:52.079 and learning how to judge people. Ran past an article on the cult of 601 00:45:52.119 --> 00:45:55.719 moral brain is that talks a bit about that well, And I think I 602 00:45:55.800 --> 00:46:00.760 think for young people who've just been exposed to objectivism and just study objectivism, 603 00:46:00.199 --> 00:46:05.960 it is objectively very difficult. You're you're trying to do the kind of work 604 00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:07.920 that Greg described, but you don't have the experience. You're sixteen, seventeen, 605 00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:13.039 eighteen twenty, you don't know exactly how to do it, and it's 606 00:46:13.320 --> 00:46:21.760 it's very easy to um make mistakes and to be obnoxious, to treat people 607 00:46:21.840 --> 00:46:25.840 in ways they don't deserve in because you don't just don't have the context and 608 00:46:27.039 --> 00:46:29.480 you don't have the knowledge of how to applied. But part of how you 609 00:46:29.639 --> 00:46:34.320 learn is by failing at it. It's by doing it and trying and falling 610 00:46:34.519 --> 00:46:39.400 flat on your face. And it's not like people who don't have idealistic philosophies 611 00:46:39.519 --> 00:46:45.920 to draw the objectivists do any better. They regard everybody is missed and ready, 612 00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:50.079 don't have very high standard, try to go along to get along, 613 00:46:50.280 --> 00:46:52.840 and you know, often mess up their lives doing it. World judgment is 614 00:46:52.920 --> 00:46:59.920 really important. A lot of people don't make, don't pronounce pristiculously wrong moral 615 00:47:00.039 --> 00:47:02.840 Texicans because they're too cowardly to make more of this at all. And you've 616 00:47:02.920 --> 00:47:06.320 got to, you know, it's an important part of life to make them, 617 00:47:06.559 --> 00:47:08.440 not only to shout them from the rooftop, but to be thinking about 618 00:47:08.480 --> 00:47:10.440 the people you need. What's good about it, what's bed about it, 619 00:47:10.440 --> 00:47:14.199 what's good about it, what's better about What do I want to emulate and 620 00:47:14.920 --> 00:47:17.280 myself of his actions and support him doing it? And what things do I 621 00:47:17.360 --> 00:47:23.400 want to not and um, and you know that's you know, most people 622 00:47:23.440 --> 00:47:30.000 aren't doing that anymore. And one of the things that objectivism makes theories you 623 00:47:30.119 --> 00:47:32.000 need to do it, but then once you recognize the need to do it, 624 00:47:32.360 --> 00:47:36.519 are to do it? Well, need to learn it. Yeah, 625 00:47:36.559 --> 00:47:39.599 and young people, young people stumble around doing that until they figure it out. 626 00:47:40.400 --> 00:47:45.639 Um, and it's hard, all right, let's see Michael asked design 627 00:47:45.719 --> 00:47:52.199 rans epistemology break down. If we're all schizophrenic or do some schizophrenic people know 628 00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:59.000 how some deep at some deep level that then not registering reality as it actually 629 00:47:59.199 --> 00:48:04.880 is. I don't know. I'm not sizophendics so far as I know. 630 00:48:05.400 --> 00:48:08.840 I think if if everybody were schizophendic, who would be quite a bad situation 631 00:48:08.880 --> 00:48:15.440 would be in. I assume or understand that there are degrees of schizophrenia. 632 00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:20.639 There are people who are in the midst of a psychotic episode and can't make 633 00:48:20.719 --> 00:48:23.760 sense of anything around them, or or only can with the utmost of effort, 634 00:48:23.880 --> 00:48:27.079 and you know, a kind of heroic struggle. And there are other 635 00:48:27.159 --> 00:48:34.840 people who occasionally have you know, who aren't in that situation, and you 636 00:48:34.880 --> 00:48:38.239 know, maybe occasionally have a hallucination but can tell that they're hallucinations. I 637 00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:45.920 assume there are milder and more intense forms and milder and more intense episodes. 638 00:48:46.119 --> 00:48:51.480 If we take the kind of most intense kind of thing, we're having hallucinations 639 00:48:51.519 --> 00:48:53.920 and can't tell what's true from what's false, and what's real from what's not. 640 00:48:54.280 --> 00:48:58.800 Then yet any epistemology is inefflatable in that pend sad you're not in control 641 00:48:58.880 --> 00:49:01.119 of your mind, you're not able to um, and there's they're very little 642 00:49:01.159 --> 00:49:06.400 activity said to you, and if there was, you wouldn't be able to 643 00:49:06.440 --> 00:49:08.719 process it and take it in. And so that's not what epistemology is for 644 00:49:09.320 --> 00:49:15.280 for um. I'm sure there are you know, milder or borderline cases, 645 00:49:15.400 --> 00:49:19.679 or you know, cases where people are suffering from serious mental illness but not 646 00:49:20.239 --> 00:49:23.360 so serious that they're all the time unable to be in touch with reality, 647 00:49:23.480 --> 00:49:29.519 where then you know, epistemological guidance is development to them to help them understand 648 00:49:29.559 --> 00:49:31.800 what's going on with them and what kind of help they might mean to seek 649 00:49:31.880 --> 00:49:36.840 and what to do. But it's um, you know, difficult and tragic 650 00:49:36.920 --> 00:49:38.960 situation, but a little and it's not very well understood. I don't think, 651 00:49:39.280 --> 00:49:44.440 and I don't think all the gradations are are well, I don't understand 652 00:49:44.480 --> 00:49:47.320 them, and I'm not sure how all the professionals. Yeah, and this 653 00:49:47.480 --> 00:49:51.400 idea that Waltz getsophrenic is a little episode. All you have to do is 654 00:49:51.440 --> 00:49:53.440 look around the world, assuming we're seeing the world as it is, and 655 00:49:53.599 --> 00:49:59.320 see skyscrapers and and uh and advanced technology and iPhones and things like that, 656 00:49:59.400 --> 00:50:01.679 to know that some somebody at least does not schizophrenic. Otherwise none of this 657 00:50:01.800 --> 00:50:06.960 could be created. What would it mean to say we're all Ye means a 658 00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:10.000 particular condition? Does that even mean the same thing as psychotic or crazy? 659 00:50:10.039 --> 00:50:15.599 You're you're seeing things, it's a particular diagnosis. Yeah, um that you 660 00:50:15.760 --> 00:50:19.800 you know, you need to know something about it to make you can't If 661 00:50:19.840 --> 00:50:22.559 everybody has it, then nobody doesn't mean any Yeah, and it has to 662 00:50:22.639 --> 00:50:25.800 contrast with something normal, And if we're all schizophrenics, there is no normal. 663 00:50:25.880 --> 00:50:35.599 Maybe, so it's it's yeah, it's Liam asks what gives philosophy Vieto 664 00:50:35.719 --> 00:50:43.480 power over scientific claims? Yeah, I mean I would love this Vieto power 665 00:50:43.719 --> 00:50:47.480 language, as though we philosophers are apparent, But there is some truth to 666 00:50:47.599 --> 00:50:52.280 it. And so a little at phrase Harry's sometimes maybe I remember, Harry, 667 00:50:53.719 --> 00:50:59.000 do you think about it? Is that philosophy's role is to integrate our 668 00:50:59.079 --> 00:51:01.480 knowledge. It's to bring it all together into one's You have a lot of 669 00:51:01.519 --> 00:51:07.039 different special sciences studying different things, but you have to have a kind of 670 00:51:07.039 --> 00:51:10.360 perspective on how does knowledge fit together, What are the ultimate fundamentals from which 671 00:51:10.360 --> 00:51:15.519 all of these sciences branched out, and what holds the multidimcently have an overview 672 00:51:15.599 --> 00:51:24.480 perspective on the world. And if something sucks that it contradicts the fundamentals on 673 00:51:24.599 --> 00:51:30.800 which all knowledge is based, and or if it would and or it precludes 674 00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:37.079 knowledge from integrating, then there must be something wrong with it. And so 675 00:51:37.239 --> 00:51:42.079 in that sense, it's it's philosophy's job to mind the integration and the fundamentals. 676 00:51:42.320 --> 00:51:45.880 It's philosophy's job to point out when one of these kinds of errors is 677 00:51:45.960 --> 00:51:47.079 made. It So in that sense, you know, you would take it 678 00:51:47.119 --> 00:51:52.199 as veto powers the one to call out. But I don't think it's job 679 00:51:52.599 --> 00:51:55.800 therefore is to say, you know what, the mechanics is out, this 680 00:51:57.000 --> 00:51:59.760 branch of evolution is out, this thing or whatever, like you know, 681 00:52:00.119 --> 00:52:05.039 to throw scident, take your disciplines out. It's job is to say something's 682 00:52:05.079 --> 00:52:08.360 wrong here, This thing as it's being formulated, et cetera, is wrong. 683 00:52:08.639 --> 00:52:13.519 Maybe it's a it's just an error in formulation, and there they are 684 00:52:13.559 --> 00:52:15.679 a real important truth here that just needs to be kind of cleaned up or 685 00:52:15.679 --> 00:52:19.960 disinbbu with it. Maybe the whole field is garbage made. But that's not 686 00:52:20.079 --> 00:52:22.800 the kind of thing philosophy can tell. It can just tell if you're saying 687 00:52:22.840 --> 00:52:27.639 there's no such thingious cause and effect, if you're saying that we are deterministic 688 00:52:27.760 --> 00:52:30.199 puppets and therefore that we can't know anything. If you're saying, um, 689 00:52:32.079 --> 00:52:35.480 that we're not in touch with who, we can't be in touch with reality. 690 00:52:35.480 --> 00:52:39.199 If you're saying we're all schizophrenic. Uh, something's gone wrong. Ye, 691 00:52:39.639 --> 00:52:44.079 Now what exactly? And what might be salvageable from what you're saying? 692 00:52:44.159 --> 00:52:47.719 What might be a tremendous value that's gotten, you know, mixed up into 693 00:52:49.599 --> 00:52:52.760 a hash with some other things. You can just this conclusion that you really 694 00:52:52.800 --> 00:52:57.480 need someone's depend get real expertise in the field to sort of out and tell. 695 00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:07.039 So KFEX thank you k X for the fifty dollars Kfex says um popping 696 00:53:07.079 --> 00:53:08.599 in just to say thank you, Greg. Your woke made it easier for 697 00:53:08.679 --> 00:53:14.840 me to understand objectivism and better apply its ideas to my life. Your old 698 00:53:14.880 --> 00:53:20.480 can talk a few years ago. Principles and post of values is absolute gold. 699 00:53:21.639 --> 00:53:27.960 Thank you. Yeah the women didn't know. Oh yeah, yeah, 700 00:53:31.840 --> 00:53:35.199 that was a good talk. It was a good It was a fun confidence. 701 00:53:35.239 --> 00:53:37.039 I enjoyed that confidence. It was a nice theme for the confidence. 702 00:53:40.440 --> 00:53:45.679 Okay, Greg, are you're still glad you voted for Biden? He just 703 00:53:45.800 --> 00:53:49.800 announced he'll be running for second term. Do you actually think Trump has a 704 00:53:49.920 --> 00:53:54.239 chance of winning? Um? I don't know. Yeah, Trump has a 705 00:53:54.320 --> 00:53:58.800 chance of me I mean, he won once. There's a sizable number of 706 00:53:58.880 --> 00:54:05.159 people who love him no matter why he does. And I think he's less 707 00:54:05.199 --> 00:54:08.199 than fifty fifty shot would But if he's the nominee and he's not certain to 708 00:54:08.280 --> 00:54:10.239 be, then I want to go. He's pretty likely to be, so, 709 00:54:10.320 --> 00:54:14.719 yeah, he definitely has a shot of running and um, and I 710 00:54:14.840 --> 00:54:16.440 hope he doesn't. Am I glad I voted for Biden? Yeah, I 711 00:54:16.519 --> 00:54:21.920 think he was an easy choice. Biden's awful. He did a bad president 712 00:54:22.400 --> 00:54:25.760 but he's been a bad president in pretty typical ways. There are a couple 713 00:54:25.760 --> 00:54:29.119 of things he did that are worse than I expected, but not by much, 714 00:54:29.760 --> 00:54:31.760 and a couple of things that are better than I expected, though again 715 00:54:31.880 --> 00:54:36.280 not by much. He's crummy. I wish he wasn't president, but given 716 00:54:36.360 --> 00:54:39.719 the options we have or he might be, he's better than most of the 717 00:54:39.760 --> 00:54:44.760 people on the left who could have been the Democratic nominee, and he's better 718 00:54:44.800 --> 00:54:54.159 control. Yes, Um, I like numbers asked. Is it a sanction 719 00:54:54.920 --> 00:55:01.440 to work with an alco capitalist like Brian Kaplan? Um, I have worked 720 00:55:01.440 --> 00:55:04.039 with him, as you said, I've done it, did a podcast with 721 00:55:04.119 --> 00:55:07.519 and you're gonna do a debate with him in a dat I don't think sanction 722 00:55:08.039 --> 00:55:13.920 is and work with or binary in that way. Either someone is you know 723 00:55:14.000 --> 00:55:15.960 such that they're not to be sanctioned so you have never never have anything to 724 00:55:16.000 --> 00:55:21.920 do with them, or um uh, you're doing something to do with an 725 00:55:21.920 --> 00:55:27.280 attention in them. I think it's much more. You think about what is 726 00:55:27.360 --> 00:55:31.199 the meaning of this interaction? What am I saying by having this interaction was 727 00:55:31.280 --> 00:55:36.039 this person? Um? What am I endorsing about them by doing that? 728 00:55:36.159 --> 00:55:39.440 And in what contexts, and so I do think it's a sanction if you're 729 00:55:39.480 --> 00:55:45.760 working with an atarcho capitalist in any way or even debating with them in any 730 00:55:45.840 --> 00:55:51.199 way that carries the implication. Here we are people who are fundamentally aligned, 731 00:55:52.800 --> 00:55:58.719 but we have what we regard as a you know, uh, intramural difference, 732 00:55:58.760 --> 00:56:01.440 you know, a fairly trivial price between us within our team. Fundamentally 733 00:56:01.519 --> 00:56:05.960 we're together, but then there's this issue of difference that we have, and 734 00:56:07.119 --> 00:56:12.360 then we're having that issue out. And when I interact with America capitalists, 735 00:56:12.360 --> 00:56:17.039 I very much try to explode any implication to that thing. I interact with 736 00:56:17.159 --> 00:56:21.280 them in the way that I would interact with a Marxist. There might be 737 00:56:21.400 --> 00:56:23.280 some things on which we agree, but there are a lot of things on 738 00:56:23.360 --> 00:56:29.159 which we don't, and I don't take the agreements is fundamental to disagreements, 739 00:56:29.559 --> 00:56:34.559 except for the agreement that this kind of intellectual exchange is worth having in this 740 00:56:34.719 --> 00:56:38.000 context. M Now Capitlan' is an interesting case because he's not there. There 741 00:56:38.039 --> 00:56:44.639 are America capitalists who I think are fundamentally about mealism and tearing things down, 742 00:56:44.800 --> 00:56:49.440 and that's their kind of thing. Um. I think that's kind of what 743 00:56:49.519 --> 00:56:52.760 dominates the Music Institute at this point, and I think it was what dominated 744 00:56:52.880 --> 00:56:57.599 rossbarg is the kind of leading light of it. I don't think that Brian 745 00:56:57.679 --> 00:57:00.920 Kaplan as that kind of person in his motivation. Um, and so I 746 00:57:01.280 --> 00:57:06.199 like where I don't like other people that I you know, I think brans 747 00:57:06.280 --> 00:57:09.519 politics the way I think of the politics, and some of the kind of 748 00:57:09.599 --> 00:57:13.599 leptists that I deal with, you know, are good on this or that 749 00:57:13.679 --> 00:57:15.639 issue. I am excitful want this of that issue, but really well on 750 00:57:15.800 --> 00:57:22.840 other issues. Good. Yeah, I was gonna I was gonna say that 751 00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:27.719 it's it's sanctioned is not exactly that. And as you said, not all 752 00:57:28.079 --> 00:57:30.800 and alc capitalists are the same. I mean, there are some people that 753 00:57:30.880 --> 00:57:34.159 you wouldn't want to do anything with, you wouldn't want to engage in any 754 00:57:34.239 --> 00:57:37.119 kind of debate with, because there's such nihilists, and there are others that 755 00:57:38.000 --> 00:57:44.360 like byan that that I think that you can actually engage with on certain issues. 756 00:57:45.079 --> 00:57:49.519 Let's a Richard ask, is there a branch of philosophy that deals with 757 00:57:50.039 --> 00:57:55.960 meaning, like a combination of teleology, exiology, and semantic clarity. Can 758 00:57:57.039 --> 00:58:06.199 you point to any references about meaning for filling higher needs flirt too, senses 759 00:58:06.239 --> 00:58:12.880 of meaning at least at work here. So philosophy of language in the twentieth 760 00:58:12.960 --> 00:58:17.159 century, and then this kind of moved into philosophy of mind in the late 761 00:58:17.199 --> 00:58:22.480 twenties and twenty first century talk a lot about what it is for a word 762 00:58:22.639 --> 00:58:25.000 or a proposition to be meaningful, kind of semantic, to content, to 763 00:58:25.079 --> 00:58:30.119 kind of stuff, and so in that sense, you know, those brands 764 00:58:30.239 --> 00:58:34.400 of philosophy do that. I think they tend to do it in a way 765 00:58:34.480 --> 00:58:37.519 that's too detached from aistemology. So they kind of think like, there's something 766 00:58:37.559 --> 00:58:40.920 that happened to refer to be meaningful, all right, now it's meaningful, 767 00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:45.840 is it's true? Whereas I think that meaning is something that you ab strapped 768 00:58:45.960 --> 00:58:51.000 out from the activity of knowing. And the thing to be studying is the 769 00:58:51.039 --> 00:58:52.960 activity of knowing things. And if you're in the business of trying to know 770 00:58:53.119 --> 00:58:57.599 something, sometimes you have something that is a theory that's false, and it 771 00:58:57.679 --> 00:59:01.280 has meaning because of the role it's playing and being based on certain evidence and 772 00:59:01.599 --> 00:59:05.599 projecting in a certain way, but it gets it wrong into it it's false. 773 00:59:05.920 --> 00:59:07.480 And I think that this is an important to understanding what's wrong with the 774 00:59:07.559 --> 00:59:13.880 arbitrary. And I think it's an important thesis of it follows from the objectivisty 775 00:59:13.920 --> 00:59:17.719 of knowledge that semantics and epistemology are deeply connected. Now that you ask them, 776 00:59:17.800 --> 00:59:22.840 I think you mean by meaning here not just the meaning of words, 777 00:59:22.960 --> 00:59:25.360 though you mean to include that, but having a life be meaningful and things 778 00:59:25.440 --> 00:59:32.159 like that, UM, having your life be directed on things. And I 779 00:59:32.199 --> 00:59:37.320 don't think there's a name branch of philosophy that does that, but pragmotism as 780 00:59:37.360 --> 00:59:42.000 a school of philosophy, not as the you know, do whatever works kind 781 00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:47.159 of pragmotism, although they're related, but pragmotism is the school of philosophy UM 782 00:59:50.800 --> 00:59:54.760 talks a lot about human activity, including goal directed activity and so forth, 783 00:59:54.880 --> 01:00:01.519 and the processes of having meaning with being connected to that. So you can 784 01:00:01.599 --> 01:00:07.400 see in kind of pragmatist authors UM a sense of how these kind of things 785 01:00:07.440 --> 01:00:14.239 can be related. And UM, someone like Bob Brandam, who's a blossom 786 01:00:14.280 --> 01:00:17.000 professor at Pittsburgh where I study, would be an example of someone who who 787 01:00:17.159 --> 01:00:21.840 thinks along these lines. UM. Now, I think I don't mean to 788 01:00:22.000 --> 01:00:24.719 endorse this kind of view, but I do think there are connections. Knowledge 789 01:00:24.800 --> 01:00:29.119 is for the same of action. I think meaning comes out of knowledge and 790 01:00:29.199 --> 01:00:31.440 knowledge consider it is there for the singers, I think there's there's it's right 791 01:00:31.519 --> 01:00:37.960 to see a connection between these things. Um. The the pragmatists really stress 792 01:00:38.119 --> 01:00:43.079 mental activity and would be the activity of the whole organzas to your activity in 793 01:00:43.159 --> 01:00:46.719 the world as the source of all of this, um, But in a 794 01:00:46.800 --> 01:00:52.199 way that makes it subjective. So it's it's it's mental activity creates meaning, 795 01:00:52.800 --> 01:00:55.639 uh, create purpose, et cetera. But there's not a kind of basis 796 01:00:55.679 --> 01:01:00.440 for that in reality, UM, And I think you do. You think 797 01:01:00.559 --> 01:01:04.639 this is a subjectivist side. The other side of the alternative tends to see 798 01:01:05.719 --> 01:01:09.039 meaning involves passively hitching yourself to something which is a source of meaning of what's 799 01:01:09.039 --> 01:01:13.119 good or another. And I think the right alternative visit you do have to 800 01:01:13.159 --> 01:01:17.280 findos make meaning for yourself both a sunantic meaning and purpose of meaning, but 801 01:01:17.519 --> 01:01:20.719 you do it in a fact based way. There's a way to do it 802 01:01:20.760 --> 01:01:22.880 in the fact based way, including based on the facts that give rise to 803 01:01:22.960 --> 01:01:30.920 the need for this whole activity. But I don't know of UM where you 804 01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:35.400 can find much retailians and read some of the pathetist authors for a sense of 805 01:01:35.440 --> 01:01:38.159 how they think these issues fit together, and maybe somewhat of the literature and 806 01:01:38.239 --> 01:01:42.800 well being in philosophy, which I mentioned earlier. I think is one of 807 01:01:42.840 --> 01:01:47.519 the more interesting things going on connecting to philosophy these days. They's some talking 808 01:01:47.559 --> 01:01:52.000 about meaning in life. So what do you What do you views the relationship 809 01:01:52.039 --> 01:01:55.480 between meaning and purpose meaning in the in the mall sense, in the in 810 01:01:55.599 --> 01:02:01.679 the purposeful sense. Um I mean, I think the purpose is a kind 811 01:02:01.719 --> 01:02:06.519 of more technical term in philosophy. Is I use this meaning it a little 812 01:02:06.559 --> 01:02:15.639 bit more metaphorical, but part of you can find meaning in what you're doing, 813 01:02:16.199 --> 01:02:19.480 right, And I guess you can find purpose in what you're doing, 814 01:02:19.519 --> 01:02:27.639 but it means something different. I think the more connected your activities are two 815 01:02:27.800 --> 01:02:32.360 purposes that you understand and wholeheartedly endorsed for good reasons, and that you are 816 01:02:32.400 --> 01:02:37.679 the happiness that you've chosen to pursue with your life. The more meaningful you 817 01:02:37.800 --> 01:02:40.559 find your life, the more meaningful you find what you're doing. It doesn't 818 01:02:40.599 --> 01:02:45.199 just seem like one damn saying after another that I've got to do, but 819 01:02:45.159 --> 01:02:49.880 as it's infused with the sense of this is part of the life I've chosen 820 01:02:49.920 --> 01:02:52.639 to live and you want to try to make as much of your life as 821 01:02:52.719 --> 01:02:59.880 possible like that. And then there are shortcuts to meaning, shortcuts to seem 822 01:03:00.159 --> 01:03:02.840 like there's some point to what you're doing. Shortcuts to purpose, which involves 823 01:03:04.440 --> 01:03:07.559 in effect secondhandedly to ticking over a purpose or pretending it's a mystic pull both 824 01:03:07.599 --> 01:03:10.280 from the blue thing of the book, the purpose driven life, where your 825 01:03:10.320 --> 01:03:15.199 purpose ends up to be a slave to God or you know, almost cult 826 01:03:15.239 --> 01:03:19.000 where your purpose is to serve humanity and the whole well. And then Jodan 827 01:03:19.039 --> 01:03:22.760 Peterson uses meaning constantly, kind of as an intrinsic something out there that you 828 01:03:22.880 --> 01:03:27.440 need to find. You have to find meaning. Yeah, and I think 829 01:03:27.559 --> 01:03:30.360 that's that's wrong. I think the giving this is one of the things um 830 01:03:31.360 --> 01:03:35.559 Gli did and Howard or To talk a lot about in the Fountain Gap, 831 01:03:35.760 --> 01:03:38.000 and that they bond over right, the idea that people looking for meaning they 832 01:03:38.039 --> 01:03:42.239 have to find myself and so forth, and they're looking outside of themselves. 833 01:03:42.440 --> 01:03:47.599 It's it's something you need to create, but not in the subjectivist way where 834 01:03:47.639 --> 01:03:51.599 anything you create you know you're going to write without capital letters or whatever, 835 01:03:51.639 --> 01:03:54.239 and that's the meaning of your life. You have to create a human life 836 01:03:54.960 --> 01:03:59.440 and a life for yourself with the kind of creature you are, and whatever 837 01:03:59.599 --> 01:04:02.639 meaning they're going to be is going to exist in the context of that system, 838 01:04:03.880 --> 01:04:08.199 that life which if you're going to create it, if you're gonna it's 839 01:04:08.199 --> 01:04:11.599 either debt if you're going to have it, Yeah, purpose for you? 840 01:04:11.679 --> 01:04:15.239 What I mean you have to absert the features features based on the final organism 841 01:04:15.320 --> 01:04:19.440 you are and the fact that you've rise to this whole enterprise. Right. 842 01:04:19.639 --> 01:04:26.119 Andrews asked why are social issues dominating political discourse? And how big of a 843 01:04:26.239 --> 01:04:30.960 national schism do you think a bull the bullshit issue will create? Um? 844 01:04:33.599 --> 01:04:39.280 So, what was the first petion? How? Why are social issue dominating 845 01:04:39.320 --> 01:04:44.800 political discourse? Well, in part because of the political tribes don't disagree on 846 01:04:44.960 --> 01:04:54.800 others. So, I mean in the two thousand in the twenty sixteen election, 847 01:04:56.320 --> 01:05:00.800 which candidate was more anti capitalist? I think Trump was. But it's 848 01:05:00.840 --> 01:05:04.000 just edging it out. I mean Hillary reads no capitalists. But there's so 849 01:05:05.559 --> 01:05:10.800 there's so little difference in their days of economication. Ye, And there's no 850 01:05:11.000 --> 01:05:14.840 difference on their views like issues regarding rights, uh not in general. You 851 01:05:14.880 --> 01:05:17.800 know, one particular field, the Democrats are better on reproductive rights, and 852 01:05:17.840 --> 01:05:21.280 the Republicans are better on certain economic rights, although not all of them. 853 01:05:21.880 --> 01:05:27.400 UM, like mineral rights for example, they're better own um. And the 854 01:05:27.519 --> 01:05:30.760 Democrats are worse on certain technologies, you know, fossil fuels and the rights 855 01:05:30.800 --> 01:05:34.159 to do what one will with them, but you know, probably better on 856 01:05:34.239 --> 01:05:40.000 biodap, although not by So it's like it's it's on issues of rights and 857 01:05:40.159 --> 01:05:43.840 things. On issues of political principle and issues of the economy, they're not 858 01:05:44.159 --> 01:05:45.400 very different from one of them. You have to measure it in the parts 859 01:05:45.400 --> 01:05:49.679 of pavilion or parts pervilions to get even the like AOC versus you know, 860 01:05:50.360 --> 01:05:55.840 um, whoever you call a centrist Republican now um um, what's his name? 861 01:05:56.320 --> 01:06:02.119 The speecher, um McCarthy, Democratic Democratic Um. There's just not that 862 01:06:02.280 --> 01:06:06.400 much difference on the economic stuff, on the right stuff on the other issues. 863 01:06:06.519 --> 01:06:12.239 So how do you, you know, get attention and get your people 864 01:06:12.280 --> 01:06:16.400 to vote out the other person. It's it's personal attacks and it's um cultural 865 01:06:16.480 --> 01:06:20.360 issues. And I think this is the case on both sides. There's um 866 01:06:20.920 --> 01:06:27.079 a kind of flocking two issues where you can vilify not just the other people, 867 01:06:27.159 --> 01:06:30.679 but other blocks of voters or make it seem like there's a kind of 868 01:06:30.719 --> 01:06:33.920 menace in the country and a certain of people who are these people with their 869 01:06:34.000 --> 01:06:39.679 guns or these people with their drag shows or whatever it is, and um 870 01:06:39.840 --> 01:06:45.280 and illicit discussed reactions. UM. So I think that's that's why it happened. 871 01:06:45.360 --> 01:06:49.199 How people will abortion to be its stuff, I don't know. UM. 872 01:06:49.360 --> 01:06:51.840 I mean, it has been an excuse in the country for a long 873 01:06:51.960 --> 01:06:57.440 time. But I think part of what we're seeing is that the support for 874 01:07:00.159 --> 01:07:04.920 the banning of abortion is a lot weaker than the anti abortionists thought it was 875 01:07:05.840 --> 01:07:12.119 so long as they didn't so long as the structure of the court was such 876 01:07:12.239 --> 01:07:15.599 that anti abortion laws couldn't get upheld, there was a lot of enthusiasm for 877 01:07:15.880 --> 01:07:21.000 f a symbolic gesture passing these laws that pretend that that embryo is from the 878 01:07:21.079 --> 01:07:28.320 beginning? Are you know, are full fledged people um that see no difference 879 01:07:28.360 --> 01:07:30.960 between um. You know, as I go from the thirty two year old 880 01:07:31.440 --> 01:07:35.920 um, those kind of laws were very popular when you know, it didn't 881 01:07:36.000 --> 01:07:41.440 cost anything to pass them affect anyone, just like repealing Obamacare was very popular 882 01:07:41.480 --> 01:07:45.199 when it wasn't actually going to get repealed. Um, once you should have 883 01:07:45.239 --> 01:07:48.840 been that's not I'm not meeting them in those at the middle. But then 884 01:07:48.880 --> 01:07:51.519 as soon as it actually happens, when the laws get them to effect, 885 01:07:51.840 --> 01:07:55.800 then it turns out that a lot of people, including a lot of Republicans, 886 01:07:55.920 --> 01:08:00.440 don't don't want them, don't want these laws. More So, I 887 01:08:00.519 --> 01:08:04.599 don't know will the Republicans moderate. I think insofar as it's going to be 888 01:08:04.639 --> 01:08:08.960 a schism over this, it's going to be within the Republican Party between the 889 01:08:09.079 --> 01:08:12.880 people who are you know, diehards on this issue. We want to ban 890 01:08:12.960 --> 01:08:15.840 all abortions in the Matagua and we don't care if it acrost us votes and 891 01:08:15.000 --> 01:08:19.840 the people who are who are not and um. One of the more positive 892 01:08:19.880 --> 01:08:24.640 things I could say about Trump, who somewhere like to task if he's not 893 01:08:24.760 --> 01:08:28.560 a die heart about this issue. He was an opportunist anti abortion and now 894 01:08:28.640 --> 01:08:30.760 he's you know, opportunists on telling people to back away from him. And 895 01:08:31.199 --> 01:08:35.520 if that side of the Republican Party wins out over the Religi decided that I 896 01:08:35.560 --> 01:08:40.560 think will probably end up with a lot of states moving to something more like 897 01:08:40.640 --> 01:08:44.720 a European model where you have, um, you know, less of abortion 898 01:08:44.800 --> 01:08:47.560 freedom than you ought to, but not these better crazy art being laws in 899 01:08:48.079 --> 01:08:53.199 six weeks love well and an abortion pill laws, which is even which is 900 01:08:53.239 --> 01:08:58.279 even worse. All right, James, A long time to get to that 901 01:08:58.359 --> 01:09:00.119 better place, even if we do didn't do it. Yes, I agree, 902 01:09:00.199 --> 01:09:05.399 it's gonna there's no easy path there because so many people have committed themselves 903 01:09:05.439 --> 01:09:10.600 to a certain position. Um. And it's and it's again it's associated with 904 01:09:10.680 --> 01:09:15.760 the tribe. One thing that's striking to me is how few people view this 905 01:09:15.960 --> 01:09:19.399 as an issue. There a few people with an objectivism thinking about it. 906 01:09:19.479 --> 01:09:25.680 About Yeah, this as an issue in twenty sixteen, in two thousand and 907 01:09:25.720 --> 01:09:30.439 eight, um or whatever, twelve all the different I have viewed it as 908 01:09:30.479 --> 01:09:33.199 a significant issue for a long time. I thought we were a justice or 909 01:09:33.239 --> 01:09:40.239 two away for a losing row. Um. I thought that the first well, 910 01:09:40.279 --> 01:09:43.680 and to this day I think there are a lot of a lot of 911 01:09:44.239 --> 01:09:48.399 even objectivists who think Trump's greatest achievement is the Supreme Court. So I just 912 01:09:48.520 --> 01:09:54.279 don't think people put enough weight on this issue of abortion. Particularly man don't 913 01:09:54.319 --> 01:09:57.680 put enough weight on this issue of abortion. And of course, the person 914 01:09:57.760 --> 01:10:00.880 who put the most weight on it, and a US the importance of this 915 01:10:00.079 --> 01:10:03.079 to some extent is I manned. I mean she didn't vote for somebody like, 916 01:10:03.520 --> 01:10:09.039 I mean, Ronald Reagan right now seems like a saint. He seems 917 01:10:09.079 --> 01:10:14.319 like, you know what, wouldn't we give to have a Ronald Reagan running 918 01:10:14.359 --> 01:10:18.039 for president right now? And yet I didn't vote for him because primarily because 919 01:10:18.119 --> 01:10:23.640 not only, but primarily because of this issue of abortion. Yeah. Part 920 01:10:23.680 --> 01:10:26.760 of that that we should recognize and thinking about is what he represented me. 921 01:10:26.880 --> 01:10:32.119 Yeah. The good about Ronald Reagan was in a way happening anyway he needed 922 01:10:32.159 --> 01:10:38.039 to figure told us, but there was a real pro market, anti status 923 01:10:38.159 --> 01:10:42.119 backlash. And you can see that we had thatcher when we had Fraiture. 924 01:10:43.039 --> 01:10:46.439 It was this kind of international thing that was happening. Reagan was the guy 925 01:10:46.439 --> 01:10:49.560 who would call us around in America. He could have been around someone else, 926 01:10:49.640 --> 01:10:54.199 or so we might have thought. UM. And part of what is 927 01:10:55.000 --> 01:11:00.399 legacy is I think the central isn't those those at liberties that are associated with 928 01:11:00.560 --> 01:11:05.000 him, which we're looking for a political champion, but the merging of that 929 01:11:05.319 --> 01:11:10.239 with UM, with religionism, and it might have been that just where the 930 01:11:10.319 --> 01:11:12.800 culture was was that that was only what was going to happen, and you 931 01:11:12.840 --> 01:11:15.680 know it's the wather Agian. It would have been someone else. But whether 932 01:11:15.760 --> 01:11:18.920 that's true or not, that's what his cannibisiating represented historically. That's what he's 933 01:11:18.960 --> 01:11:27.439 winning the Republican primary represented historical. Um. And that's um that I think 934 01:11:27.640 --> 01:11:31.800 was she was such as for her, Yeah, I mean she recognized that 935 01:11:31.880 --> 01:11:36.560 he was bringing them all majority the Christianity deep into the Republican Party and entrenching 936 01:11:36.600 --> 01:11:42.239 it there. And um, that turned out to be one hundred percent right. 937 01:11:42.319 --> 01:11:45.720 I mean it's it's it's amazing the age of mediocrities or that it's really 938 01:11:46.319 --> 01:11:50.439 um shocking to read that and just how how I mean she said things like 939 01:11:50.520 --> 01:11:55.000 in nineteen eighty like, you know, don't call me a conservative. I 940 01:11:55.039 --> 01:11:57.760 don't want to be associative with these people they're trying to do with the Iatola 941 01:11:57.960 --> 01:12:03.520 to Iran. Yeah, um, ye know she was not a moderate on 942 01:12:03.680 --> 01:12:08.319 this kind of issue. No. But as to the point I think that 943 01:12:08.479 --> 01:12:13.239 the I liked the previous Supreme Court. I liked the court with Kennedy. 944 01:12:13.520 --> 01:12:17.000 Ye, it wasn't gonna stick for very long. Um, And uh, 945 01:12:17.479 --> 01:12:21.319 you know, it just so happened that the forces were arrayed in the place 946 01:12:21.399 --> 01:12:28.079 that kept him a relatively good status, where the best part of the Republican 947 01:12:28.159 --> 01:12:31.239 appointed justices acted to stay on the worst part of the Democrat appointed justices, 948 01:12:31.279 --> 01:12:34.000 and the best part of the Democrat of what you justices act to stay on 949 01:12:34.079 --> 01:12:36.880 the worst part of the Republican apport justice. We have to see where the 950 01:12:36.960 --> 01:12:41.039 new equilibrium is. There were some good things about this court, but some 951 01:12:41.239 --> 01:12:45.479 really bad things, and see where where it shakes that. But but the 952 01:12:45.600 --> 01:12:50.119 overturning of Roe was I think a real horror. And part of what was 953 01:12:50.159 --> 01:12:56.399 so horrible about it is that it did it while casting shade on the lockman 954 01:12:56.560 --> 01:13:01.439 or like you could imagine a kind of conservative who at least is applutting. 955 01:13:01.479 --> 01:13:06.319 The better things about conservativis own path wants to bring that bath but is in 956 01:13:06.399 --> 01:13:11.359 different to socialism. But what it's saying is just like we realize there are 957 01:13:11.399 --> 01:13:13.960 no rights in the economic realm, there's no right to your body either, 958 01:13:14.439 --> 01:13:18.159 and that is really disgusting. Yeah, and Alito has a special physic health 959 01:13:18.199 --> 01:13:23.720 for that. Yeah, Alita things particularly bad. It will be interesting what 960 01:13:23.800 --> 01:13:28.319 they do tomorrow, because we should hear tomorrow about the abution pill um, 961 01:13:29.359 --> 01:13:31.079 and the fact that they had to delay it means there's a debate going on. 962 01:13:31.279 --> 01:13:34.439 I thought there was a chance that unanimously would they would throw out the 963 01:13:34.520 --> 01:13:39.520 Texas ruling. UM, and expecting they will end up throwing out the deist 964 01:13:39.560 --> 01:13:45.119 ruling. But I expect so too. Yeah, exactly, Um, James 965 01:13:45.239 --> 01:13:48.000 says, when is it fair to say you're in a light boat scenario and 966 01:13:48.119 --> 01:13:55.359 can initiate force for your own survival? When when free speech is When is 967 01:13:55.399 --> 01:14:04.319 it when free speech is abolished? This strikes for me is too yeah abstract 968 01:14:04.600 --> 01:14:08.720 to really answer this way. You know, it's not like you so so 969 01:14:08.880 --> 01:14:14.079 you're in USSR and free speech has been abolished, at least you don't just 970 01:14:14.199 --> 01:14:15.720 start killing people left and right. And you've got to think about, like, 971 01:14:15.880 --> 01:14:20.079 what specific situation are you in where you think that you can Um. 972 01:14:20.960 --> 01:14:24.840 You don't want to give your vibe. It's you know, it's zero sum 973 01:14:25.600 --> 01:14:30.119 and um. There are some situations on the untatorship where it happens, but 974 01:14:30.600 --> 01:14:36.640 not most of them, not most of the time, all right, Clough. 975 01:14:36.760 --> 01:14:40.800 For something to be a lifeboat scenario, it has to be short lived. 976 01:14:41.319 --> 01:14:45.119 It has to be a kind of emergency where UM, if only you 977 01:14:45.239 --> 01:14:48.840 get out of this situation, you'll be able to go back to living a 978 01:14:48.920 --> 01:14:54.239 normal life by normal by the normal rule, and something makes it impossible in 979 01:14:54.319 --> 01:14:57.399 this situation, which you can get out of by doing it. So if 980 01:14:57.439 --> 01:15:00.880 you're at in a situation where like you're at the boarder and you can escape 981 01:15:00.920 --> 01:15:03.880 the USSR or North Korea or wherever by doing this thing that would otherwise be 982 01:15:03.960 --> 01:15:08.199 immoral and would involve harming someone else, and then once you're on the other 983 01:15:08.279 --> 01:15:12.239 side, you know, our life starts again. Those are the kind of 984 01:15:12.279 --> 01:15:15.479 situations where we can come up with examples and weigh them. But if it's 985 01:15:15.680 --> 01:15:19.119 you know, you're going to go on being a slave in a slave can, 986 01:15:21.199 --> 01:15:26.319 that's not an emergency scenario. That's a scenario where life just impossible and 987 01:15:26.640 --> 01:15:30.520 morality maybe doesn't apply, but not in the way of a life boat. 988 01:15:30.560 --> 01:15:35.199 Exceptions that you can exceptional contingencies and you can end and if we'll get back 989 01:15:35.239 --> 01:15:39.000 to the business of living. I mean, it strikes me that the question 990 01:15:39.119 --> 01:15:43.800 really is asking when is it okay to start of revolution because it brings in 991 01:15:43.880 --> 01:15:45.399 the free speech issues, So you know, when when do we get to 992 01:15:45.479 --> 01:15:50.880 the point where we can initiate force in order to liberate ourselves, And I 993 01:15:50.960 --> 01:15:57.119 think, yeah, good, I think that's right. But then then I'm 994 01:15:57.760 --> 01:16:05.319 very skeptical of revolutions by force. I think they're very rarely necessary. When 995 01:16:05.359 --> 01:16:12.079 they're possible, yeah, um, you need to have enough people to win, 996 01:16:12.520 --> 01:16:14.399 and not just to win, but that are going to be able to 997 01:16:14.479 --> 01:16:19.000 cohere and create a stable system of government afterwards. And I can only really 998 01:16:19.079 --> 01:16:24.119 think of one case in history where I'm searching it was justified, and that 999 01:16:24.239 --> 01:16:28.159 was the American Revolution. And that wasn't a whole bunch of people rising up 1000 01:16:28.199 --> 01:16:35.199 becoming That was local governments declaring themselves independent of another wider government that they were, 1001 01:16:35.479 --> 01:16:40.560 you know, um, you know, in subservient too. And I'm 1002 01:16:40.600 --> 01:16:45.680 sure there are probably other cases like that. I just uh where where that 1003 01:16:45.840 --> 01:16:48.439 where that might be similarly justified. The other ones I can think of, 1004 01:16:48.479 --> 01:16:51.119 though, weren't actually violent. They were protest movements or things like that. 1005 01:16:51.640 --> 01:17:02.640 Um. Usually freedom has come about by relatively slow transition and then the creation 1006 01:17:02.760 --> 01:17:09.159 of some kind of parliamentary body body, and that parliamentary body then asserting its 1007 01:17:09.159 --> 01:17:13.439 authority over an autocratic like give the parliament versus the king, and things like 1008 01:17:13.560 --> 01:17:20.039 that rather than guerrilla warfare type things. Maybe it could happen, but you 1009 01:17:20.119 --> 01:17:24.039 know, it's hard to come up with a case almost all the time. 1010 01:17:25.640 --> 01:17:30.680 The fact that you need to use guerrilla kind of warfare tactics shows that you're 1011 01:17:30.760 --> 01:17:35.319 not in a place that is capable of free government if you want. There's 1012 01:17:35.319 --> 01:17:42.399 not a population table. Yeah, fed help, I asks, since IOE, 1013 01:17:42.640 --> 01:17:47.279 have you noticed in university philosophy course teaching the idea of induction and unit 1014 01:17:47.439 --> 01:17:53.520 measurement emission as Peacoff is spoken on, like in logical leap and acoms of 1015 01:17:53.600 --> 01:17:57.720 induction. Well, since he was published before I was born, So yeah, 1016 01:17:57.880 --> 01:18:02.359 I wasn't in a position to observe before that changed afterwards. I don't 1017 01:18:02.399 --> 01:18:08.479 think it's widely read by people in philosophy department, so I don't think it's 1018 01:18:09.000 --> 01:18:16.000 had that kind of an influence. Um, I'm talking about whether they're positive 1019 01:18:16.039 --> 01:18:20.159 or negative trends in views about induction. But I don't think I Qui in 1020 01:18:20.239 --> 01:18:25.119 particular has has been a cause of that. And he doesn't really talk about 1021 01:18:25.159 --> 01:18:29.760 induction. I mean it has a couple of promising remarks and cantalizing things, 1022 01:18:29.840 --> 01:18:32.880 and particularly in the appendix and and their ideas that that letter you know, 1023 01:18:33.039 --> 01:18:39.000 later letter Pika later used to develop a theory. But um, you know 1024 01:18:39.560 --> 01:18:45.119 it's not that's not an IVF. Clark asks, do any academics you work 1025 01:18:45.199 --> 01:18:51.079 with in philosophy departments have the slightest respectfuying RAND? All Your students more interested 1026 01:18:51.119 --> 01:18:59.880 in RAND than they would decade ago. Yeah, so they're they're definitely academic. 1027 01:19:00.000 --> 01:19:03.760 I've worked within philosophy departments who have respect for program. A handful of 1028 01:19:03.800 --> 01:19:11.680 people in particular stand out UM, the U and people in other departments too. 1029 01:19:11.680 --> 01:19:24.239 You can how much, since, of course sometimes UM students students in 1030 01:19:24.359 --> 01:19:28.920 classes where I teach her are usually and I never teach a whole class course 1031 01:19:29.000 --> 01:19:31.640 on ortias. You know, we're teaching the curve of figures views on the 1032 01:19:31.760 --> 01:19:35.520 topic, and she'll be one of them. Are often very receptives find her 1033 01:19:35.680 --> 01:19:41.960 interesting, including people who aren't antecedently, you know, predisposed to like her. 1034 01:19:42.000 --> 01:19:44.479 That its politics don't align or whatever. It's not, of course all 1035 01:19:44.520 --> 01:19:46.880 poligens UM. It's hard to tell how much they're influenced by thinking I like 1036 01:19:46.960 --> 01:19:50.640 her, momos the professor, while although I'm surprised by how often students don't 1037 01:19:50.840 --> 01:19:55.439 know which you see endoor civities. I know, I try not to tell 1038 01:19:55.520 --> 01:20:00.960 them. I think I could restell um. But generally students, you know 1039 01:20:02.079 --> 01:20:05.000 a lot of students see something positive with her, and then I think take 1040 01:20:05.079 --> 01:20:11.439 on some of her ideas. Um are they how do they come to me? 1041 01:20:11.520 --> 01:20:15.319 Though I haven't noticed a big difference in the time I've been teaching in 1042 01:20:15.079 --> 01:20:20.000 whether the streaments are antisedingly interested in Manum. Usually, you know, at 1043 01:20:20.079 --> 01:20:24.920 least some people will ask, will be familiar with, some will positive views, 1044 01:20:24.920 --> 01:20:30.039 and some wile afte interviews okay, quickly they usual most of them want 1045 01:20:30.079 --> 01:20:33.159 to read and roll of work of fiction that they won't see the connection to 1046 01:20:33.199 --> 01:20:41.600 what we're really right away, So you know, doesn't dominate the special Michael 1047 01:20:41.640 --> 01:20:45.560 asks, are you overall optimistic about ability to spread objectivism and gradually change the 1048 01:20:45.640 --> 01:20:49.640 culture? Do you think you will see real positive change in your lifetime? 1049 01:20:55.039 --> 01:21:01.359 Yes, but not as objectivism exactly. So I'm optimistic about and this is 1050 01:21:01.399 --> 01:21:10.359 the same thing matter anyway, I'm optimistic about the ability of objectivists to move 1051 01:21:10.479 --> 01:21:16.079 the conversations in the right direction, to make the conversation better and whatever. 1052 01:21:16.159 --> 01:21:19.359 By the conversation, I mean, like if you look at how the way 1053 01:21:19.439 --> 01:21:25.439 people talk about energy now is no diiceably better because of the ideas that Alex 1054 01:21:25.640 --> 01:21:29.600 has has been advocating for it. He's become a big name in the field. 1055 01:21:29.640 --> 01:21:31.960 But even people who don't maybe don't know his name, like you'll see 1056 01:21:32.199 --> 01:21:38.119 just better talking points about energy better, the viuser you know, discussion is 1057 01:21:38.159 --> 01:21:40.880 just better. Do to his influence and do the his useful objectives. And 1058 01:21:40.960 --> 01:21:44.319 I think if you look in the field of intellectual property, you'll see how 1059 01:21:44.399 --> 01:21:48.520 a mossubs influence. I think already I mentioned a well being literature in philosophy. 1060 01:21:49.760 --> 01:21:55.840 Already that literature has been influenced indirectly by high Rand in positive directions by 1061 01:21:55.880 --> 01:22:00.600 people who were sort of semi objectivists or had an objectivist phase but with it 1062 01:22:00.720 --> 01:22:03.359 but retain certain ideas. And I think, um, there have been some 1063 01:22:03.520 --> 01:22:06.319 good popular books on well being that you know, to have an influence on 1064 01:22:06.359 --> 01:22:12.439 people's lives that indirectly there's some of that market. I think there's a potential 1065 01:22:12.600 --> 01:22:15.439 that will be more and more about it. Likewise in some different fields in 1066 01:22:15.680 --> 01:22:20.520 philosophy that is once written in you know, academic corners, but also you 1067 01:22:20.640 --> 01:22:25.279 know, outside of them, so I think, you know, it comes 1068 01:22:25.399 --> 01:22:30.319 through people having particular influences on particular fields that don't look like one and one 1069 01:22:30.319 --> 01:22:34.720 of this is objectivism, but you can see if you look deeper how it 1070 01:22:34.840 --> 01:22:39.359 is having influence. Um. And then eventually I think a lot of that 1071 01:22:39.439 --> 01:22:44.479 I talked to, Oh, there's a whole school here of objectivist intellectuals who 1072 01:22:44.520 --> 01:22:46.439 are seeding a lot of this and behind a lot of this and stuff where 1073 01:22:46.880 --> 01:22:56.000 um. But I think that I I think I will see the when they'll 1074 01:22:56.039 --> 01:23:00.239 start to be a recognition of that fact that a lot of positive changes coming 1075 01:23:00.319 --> 01:23:04.039 from the same intellectual or a lot of change with people that it's positive or 1076 01:23:04.079 --> 01:23:10.800 not that I think is coming from the game indectual family yep, right, 1077 01:23:10.920 --> 01:23:15.520 Richard ass is the US undergoing a cultural revolution where leftist ideology and filtrates media, 1078 01:23:15.560 --> 01:23:21.119 academian law, for example, derivatives of critical race theory have at least 1079 01:23:21.199 --> 01:23:28.079 some visibility today. I think the questions one hundred years later, I think 1080 01:23:28.159 --> 01:23:32.399 it happened. It happened a long time ago. In addition to influencing what 1081 01:23:32.520 --> 01:23:35.960 did you say, law, media and other things, it's influenced the churches, 1082 01:23:36.239 --> 01:23:40.399 It influenced the parenting. It influenced a whole lot of other things, 1083 01:23:41.560 --> 01:23:45.000 and it's busy. It's metastasized a long time ago. One hundred years. 1084 01:23:45.000 --> 01:23:49.600 Maybe it's too much, but certainly by the sixties it had and some of 1085 01:23:49.680 --> 01:23:53.840 it, you know, more than a hundred years ago. I think now 1086 01:23:54.039 --> 01:23:59.760 the same kinds of ideas are all over the place, and they're reproducing themselves 1087 01:24:00.000 --> 01:24:05.079 all over the place in pulpits, in conservative think tanks, in left distinct 1088 01:24:05.119 --> 01:24:11.640 tanks, and university departments with you know, minor variations, just like the 1089 01:24:11.760 --> 01:24:16.680 same ideas were reproducing themselves amongst fascists and communists in the early twentieth century with 1090 01:24:16.880 --> 01:24:20.039 minor variations. It wasn't the fascist. We're all getting in from the communist 1091 01:24:20.039 --> 01:24:24.600 because the communist stolf From the fact there was an overall direction where it started. 1092 01:24:24.680 --> 01:24:27.720 I think, well, I don't know, because the Hagel was perparse, 1093 01:24:27.840 --> 01:24:30.000 but the and fist of all these people, but these kinds of well 1094 01:24:30.079 --> 01:24:35.359 springs of bad ideas had gotten into all the main organs of the culture, 1095 01:24:35.880 --> 01:24:40.520 including the organs that see themselves as opposed to one another, and the process 1096 01:24:40.640 --> 01:24:45.319 by which they fought one another was just adopting slight variations of one another bacause 1097 01:24:45.359 --> 01:24:49.399 I don't think there's a kind of particular acceleration where bad leftist ideas are moving 1098 01:24:49.439 --> 01:24:54.479 from campus to other parts of life. They've been there and they're developing alone 1099 01:24:54.479 --> 01:24:59.119 their trajectory there, both in left and right basket. Now, if we 1100 01:24:59.199 --> 01:25:04.399 talked about se sific ideas, like the particular ideas about the environment or about 1101 01:25:04.439 --> 01:25:09.199 diversity at particular ways of looking at idea, then you can charge the force 1102 01:25:10.079 --> 01:25:13.840 of this particular idea spread from campus to this place at this time. But 1103 01:25:14.479 --> 01:25:18.000 I don't think that's the main story of what's of what's happening with the culture. 1104 01:25:18.000 --> 01:25:25.960 I think the mainjories is things that are deeper wrong that did ultimately, 1105 01:25:26.159 --> 01:25:30.760 you know, spread from academic continustions outboard, but that the bulk of that 1106 01:25:30.840 --> 01:25:34.800 work was done a long time ago. All right, Hopa Campbell asks, 1107 01:25:35.279 --> 01:25:40.479 is there anything? Is there anything you think Roan could be doing better? 1108 01:25:43.720 --> 01:25:49.720 Maybe I should answer that or anything. Friends, I really like this show. 1109 01:25:50.079 --> 01:25:57.840 Um, I think it's um certainly the best regular programming you know from 1110 01:25:57.880 --> 01:26:03.239 an objectivist projective. But that's such a damning by day praise. If it's 1111 01:26:03.239 --> 01:26:06.399 a low bar, there isn't you know anything anywhere near in the league of 1112 01:26:06.439 --> 01:26:11.840 them. I think it's really important that, um, that this is happening. 1113 01:26:12.560 --> 01:26:14.800 Um, so I think it's a fantastic show. But I'm sure you 1114 01:26:14.880 --> 01:26:17.640 know when I when I noticed something, I'll you know it's in the emails. 1115 01:26:17.920 --> 01:26:21.760 Yes, he does with you on that. Ye, thank you great 1116 01:26:21.880 --> 01:26:27.359 as a pet peeve about the pronunciation of one or two words, so maybe 1117 01:26:27.399 --> 01:26:31.600 that. I'm sure there a lot of my pronunciation is terrible. I can 1118 01:26:31.720 --> 01:26:38.880 only see things all right, Ian says, is the ivanced society still active 1119 01:26:38.920 --> 01:26:45.560 and engaging with non objectives philosophers? Yes, but we're trying to figure out 1120 01:26:45.640 --> 01:26:48.560 what to do with it because and how to change what we do with it 1121 01:26:48.840 --> 01:26:56.680 going forward, because I no longer think think the kinds of programs we would 1122 01:26:56.720 --> 01:27:03.279 have there are the best forums or engaging with unobjectivist philosophers. UM. Only 1123 01:27:03.319 --> 01:27:06.199 you that we've now sound better forms you. We're doing it. So I 1124 01:27:06.319 --> 01:27:11.520 mentioned the kinds of conferences that I put on in terris M. I just 1125 01:27:11.560 --> 01:27:15.000 put on an amangdis put on where it wasn't about I ram is anything at 1126 01:27:15.000 --> 01:27:16.920 the IMAM society guess to be was just about a topic. And we had 1127 01:27:16.960 --> 01:27:21.359 some objectivists and non objectivist philosophers engaging over the topic. I found that when 1128 01:27:21.439 --> 01:27:27.359 we've done that kind of thing, more good has come up with than when 1129 01:27:27.439 --> 01:27:30.760 we did the kind of programing we do with the RS, where we would 1130 01:27:30.800 --> 01:27:32.960 have you know, somebody right about I'm ramm the continent. We have a 1131 01:27:33.000 --> 01:27:36.880 commis stolar company to talk about it. That format of program So I think 1132 01:27:36.920 --> 01:27:43.319 there's other kinds of given the kind of opportunities that there are now, there 1133 01:27:43.359 --> 01:27:47.720 are probably other kinds of programming that it's better for the RS sessions to be 1134 01:27:47.760 --> 01:27:54.399 focused on. That's where you know, advantages versus that style of session. 1135 01:27:54.439 --> 01:28:00.439 But that's something that the steering community is deliberating about it thinking about. Uh, 1136 01:28:00.760 --> 01:28:01.880 I don't know how much I say. My own prefforts would be that 1137 01:28:02.039 --> 01:28:09.760 more of the papers at the a RS conferences will be in the nature if 1138 01:28:09.760 --> 01:28:13.600 I'm rant scholarship, and maybe we'll have multiple people with a background than her, 1139 01:28:13.720 --> 01:28:18.199 rather than whether their objective has been people spend considerable time thinking about her, 1140 01:28:18.760 --> 01:28:21.479 and um, the other kind of mobage been taking place in the other 1141 01:28:21.560 --> 01:28:30.399 world. But we'll see partly what opportunities ye good, Let's see Harpocollins Campbell 1142 01:28:30.000 --> 01:28:35.399 asks, Um, did you see Stephen Hicks debate with Craig Biddle about whether 1143 01:28:35.399 --> 01:28:40.960 the objectivism is the statics and system? I saw an ad for it. 1144 01:28:41.319 --> 01:28:45.319 I didn't know what happened yet. Yeah, I think it's still it's still 1145 01:28:45.399 --> 01:28:46.760 going to happen. I don't think. I don't think it's happened already. 1146 01:28:47.960 --> 01:28:55.039 Yeah. Are you planning on seeing it? Um? I assume it's at 1147 01:28:55.039 --> 01:28:57.680 a conference that I'm not going to. I don't know. I mean, 1148 01:28:57.720 --> 01:29:02.840 if it's time YouTube by my watch it, Okay. I don't think. 1149 01:29:03.199 --> 01:29:05.279 I think I know where I stand on those issues. I think I know 1150 01:29:05.319 --> 01:29:09.159 where both of those people stand at it, and I don't know. You 1151 01:29:09.239 --> 01:29:13.199 know, I wouldn't expect to learn much, but I sometimes feel a professional 1152 01:29:13.279 --> 01:29:15.600 responsibility to keep up on things like this. So if you know, if 1153 01:29:15.640 --> 01:29:18.079 I see a link to a YouTube video, but I'll probably watch it. 1154 01:29:19.399 --> 01:29:25.520 Uh, Michaels, Did we have any radical individualist presidents or were they all 1155 01:29:25.960 --> 01:29:34.159 collectivists of varying degrees? I think you know, Washington, Adams, Jefferson, 1156 01:29:34.199 --> 01:29:40.560 and Madison were pretty damn good in their different ways. Um. Each 1157 01:29:40.600 --> 01:29:44.479 of them had had problems, and I wouldn't call them collectivists. I would 1158 01:29:44.560 --> 01:29:46.039 say they were all individuals. I would say that Lincoln is. I think 1159 01:29:46.079 --> 01:29:49.439 Lincoln is primarily individual factors. Though he made some mistakes, there are some 1160 01:29:49.520 --> 01:29:53.880 things he did wrong. Um, I'm sure there are some of those, 1161 01:29:53.960 --> 01:29:58.760 Hugo Quinn to see Adams. I think I'm not a kind of historian. 1162 01:29:58.840 --> 01:30:03.039 I don't know all of the figures. But um, already too many presidents 1163 01:30:03.079 --> 01:30:11.960 I think, well after Linking, maybe Cleveland, maybe Cleveland even yeah, 1164 01:30:11.960 --> 01:30:14.760 I don't know that much about even even some of the better ones turned out 1165 01:30:14.920 --> 01:30:17.520 really bad. Like Coolidge is often thought of by my appolist is very good. 1166 01:30:17.520 --> 01:30:20.840 But Coolidge presided over the national relation of the airwave, which is all 1167 01:30:20.920 --> 01:30:26.119 the worst things done. And um, I think it was terrible in immigration, 1168 01:30:26.279 --> 01:30:29.680 right, wasn't Coolidg's terrible in immigration? I don't know where. Okay, 1169 01:30:30.159 --> 01:30:32.439 I thought the Big Immigration Act was passed on the Coolidge in the twenties, 1170 01:30:33.359 --> 01:30:40.439 the first one that really blocked blocked immigration. It would makes sense time 1171 01:30:40.479 --> 01:30:44.359 wise, but I'm not about so there's no you know, other than I 1172 01:30:44.479 --> 01:30:53.159 know the early American presidence pretty well. Um yep, um, let's see 1173 01:30:54.000 --> 01:30:59.039 Liam says. If Trump wins the nomination and gets absolutely destroyed in the general 1174 01:30:59.079 --> 01:31:02.239 election by an eight two year old demanded, man, will we see a 1175 01:31:02.359 --> 01:31:09.159 real shift in the GUP towards a more rational limited government party? I don't 1176 01:31:09.159 --> 01:31:15.319 know. I'd like to think so. We to some extent we thought when 1177 01:31:15.399 --> 01:31:17.720 Biden won this in twenty twenty, that would happen. I thought that, 1178 01:31:17.840 --> 01:31:20.800 I mean, when it was as close as it Why it wasn't that close, 1179 01:31:21.479 --> 01:31:25.760 but when it was as close as it was, rather than a blowout, 1180 01:31:26.119 --> 01:31:34.359 Um, yeah, I mean when Trump won the Republican domination in twenty 1181 01:31:34.439 --> 01:31:39.359 sixteen, I think it showed that America was a less good country than most 1182 01:31:39.399 --> 01:31:42.840 of us thought it was. Ye. I think it's still historically a great 1183 01:31:42.880 --> 01:31:45.720 country. It's still better than any plays out. But I thought we were 1184 01:31:45.760 --> 01:31:50.479 going to do that yea. Um, And given that he won that, 1185 01:31:50.680 --> 01:31:54.600 given that it was possible from to both win the nomination and then when the 1186 01:31:54.680 --> 01:31:58.800 presidency, but even winning the nomination, I think it's a more important thing. 1187 01:32:00.079 --> 01:32:04.319 Um. Nothing else that's happened since should be too surprising. Um, 1188 01:32:04.720 --> 01:32:09.680 nothing feeling that happened with him? Who surprised me? Since then? A 1189 01:32:09.720 --> 01:32:12.760 country that's willing to vote for him once couple be willing to vote for him 1190 01:32:12.760 --> 01:32:17.000 again. And I think everything that happened, people who were surprised by it 1191 01:32:17.079 --> 01:32:23.359 were kidding themselves. I think the response to COVID, the response to losing 1192 01:32:23.600 --> 01:32:28.039 in in in twenty twenty, all of that was baked into what we knew. 1193 01:32:28.119 --> 01:32:32.800 He was the kind of mean one the nomination. So what will snap 1194 01:32:32.880 --> 01:32:36.920 people out of him? I don't know. I don't think there's a kind 1195 01:32:36.960 --> 01:32:41.920 of moment where everybody's just going to change their mind. I think it would 1196 01:32:41.920 --> 01:32:46.680 be a gradual, you know, gradual transition away towards more positive values. 1197 01:32:47.520 --> 01:32:53.119 Um, if someone on the right arises making a more positive case for something 1198 01:32:53.159 --> 01:32:57.840 about it, you could imagine, you know, Jimmiscott or Nicky Henley or 1199 01:32:57.920 --> 01:33:02.279 someone h doing something. We haven't seen much of it yet, And um, 1200 01:33:03.680 --> 01:33:08.920 I don't know when that will happen. I don't think Biden's unpopular ens 1201 01:33:09.760 --> 01:33:13.119 that he's not going to have a I think he probably willing to get to 1202 01:33:13.239 --> 01:33:15.560 Trump, but I don't think he would have the kind of blowout that's had 1203 01:33:15.600 --> 01:33:18.159 a proportion to would happen before. Maybe the Trump people will just kind of 1204 01:33:18.199 --> 01:33:23.239 get tired of, you know, losing over and over again and they'll go 1205 01:33:23.359 --> 01:33:29.319 home. But um and I think that that's probably more likely what will happen, 1206 01:33:29.399 --> 01:33:33.039 and that you know they will be these conversion experiences, But I don't 1207 01:33:33.039 --> 01:33:39.039 know, and I don't know the times again, ye Liamos asks and if 1208 01:33:39.119 --> 01:33:43.760 Trump wins the second term, will he be able to get anything done? 1209 01:33:43.880 --> 01:33:48.439 Or will the GOP morph into a full fascist, populist reactionary party. Are 1210 01:33:49.000 --> 01:33:53.720 yeah, an no. More that it does that, the more likely he 1211 01:33:53.760 --> 01:33:57.039 will be able to get the kind of things I've done that would be would 1212 01:33:57.039 --> 01:34:00.239 be terrified. But we should be asking these kinds of questions about um, 1213 01:34:00.720 --> 01:34:02.399 you know the Democrats too, What would make them change their minds? They 1214 01:34:02.439 --> 01:34:09.479 get better? Um? So I don't know. I think it's it would 1215 01:34:09.479 --> 01:34:13.119 be a very bad thing for the country if you want again, um, 1216 01:34:14.000 --> 01:34:18.600 certainly versus someone like Biden, there's a lame milk toast. Um uh. 1217 01:34:18.840 --> 01:34:24.279 And I mean he's pathetic and in corrupting various ways and and bad, but 1218 01:34:24.880 --> 01:34:29.960 all within normal bounds. If it were someone like Bernie Sanders, you could 1219 01:34:30.359 --> 01:34:32.159 you know, see like it's a new load for the last n the new 1220 01:34:32.239 --> 01:34:33.720 load for the right. And what are you going to make of it. 1221 01:34:34.159 --> 01:34:41.920 But that's not the case with Biden. He's this same old contemptible jump that 1222 01:34:42.239 --> 01:34:45.640 all presidents left and right at them for for decades. Some of his people 1223 01:34:45.680 --> 01:34:48.640 are worse than they have but you'd expect that, right, because the whole 1224 01:34:48.680 --> 01:34:54.039 movement is moving left right is petially bad. I think the worst. I 1225 01:34:54.079 --> 01:34:58.439 know, um, but you would expect. I mean, there's always that 1226 01:34:58.520 --> 01:35:00.279 are in worse people within the administ patients. There were some good people within 1227 01:35:00.319 --> 01:35:04.680 the Trump like actually good people, and certainly some people who were better than 1228 01:35:05.399 --> 01:35:10.880 would have been the alternatives. Definitely a Democrat administration, but you know, 1229 01:35:10.920 --> 01:35:16.000 again likewise on some issues there are better people than the Democratic Okay, next 1230 01:35:16.039 --> 01:35:23.239 few questions all by Wick Zong uh So. Wick asks, you guys have 1231 01:35:23.439 --> 01:35:28.039 viciously criticized Trump over the last seven years. Thank you we have. Is 1232 01:35:28.079 --> 01:35:35.000 it appropriate when he is persecuted by the entire system he is a victim victims, 1233 01:35:35.079 --> 01:35:39.399 nothing to about, Yeah, and it doesn't exonerate you from the evil. 1234 01:35:41.960 --> 01:35:45.920 Maybe deserves his victimhood status, right, I mean I don't think yeah, 1235 01:35:45.359 --> 01:35:48.039 but um, I don't think that's the story of them in general. 1236 01:35:48.640 --> 01:35:58.920 But no excuse. Yeah, So, I you know, I certainly don't 1237 01:35:59.079 --> 01:36:03.319 regret and tend to continue to criticize and viciously as long as he's in politics. 1238 01:36:04.079 --> 01:36:08.600 Well, what is important to not do and to make sure that we 1239 01:36:08.640 --> 01:36:12.479 don't do it, That we should keep ourselves honest about in our hatred or 1240 01:36:12.520 --> 01:36:15.600 Trump, which I think is just that I think one should Adam is not 1241 01:36:15.880 --> 01:36:23.760 to use it as a justification for being soft on accepting of evils that present 1242 01:36:23.880 --> 01:36:28.600 themselves as opposed to it, just as opposition to those evils shouldn't make one 1243 01:36:29.079 --> 01:36:33.279 soft on sympathetic to again or to anything else that that pops up and you 1244 01:36:33.359 --> 01:36:39.039 know, classifies itself as writer or anti lab It's very easy to fall into 1245 01:36:39.920 --> 01:36:45.720 kind of team sports and politics, and I think one has to recognize that 1246 01:36:45.800 --> 01:36:50.399 we're in a world where the culture and the political culture is bad and broken 1247 01:36:50.439 --> 01:36:54.720 and wrong, and as a result, all the major movements are going to 1248 01:36:54.760 --> 01:36:58.319 be bad, and some of them are going to be worse than others at 1249 01:36:58.399 --> 01:37:03.439 certain times. It's not that there's like some permanent political faction that's good and 1250 01:37:03.439 --> 01:37:10.119 it's for the good in a country that has two dominant political parties or two 1251 01:37:10.119 --> 01:37:14.399 dominant political faction, which is how any country with voting tends to shake out. 1252 01:37:15.399 --> 01:37:17.479 You know, either there are two parties as in our country, or 1253 01:37:17.600 --> 01:37:20.439 in a parliamentary system there are many parties, but to tend to be the 1254 01:37:20.479 --> 01:37:26.680 down on. What you have to think about is not which party is good 1255 01:37:26.760 --> 01:37:30.359 or which is evil. You have to expect that the country is going to 1256 01:37:30.399 --> 01:37:31.880 be in the hands of one party sometimes in the hands of the other party 1257 01:37:32.199 --> 01:37:35.159 the other time. And if you're thinking about your life over a lifetime, 1258 01:37:35.600 --> 01:37:38.920 it's not that one of those is going to win and the other is gonna 1259 01:37:38.960 --> 01:37:41.880 lose. It's that power is going to be shared and switch back and forth. 1260 01:37:41.920 --> 01:37:45.119 And what you have to focus on is which things are making one or 1261 01:37:45.159 --> 01:37:49.000 the other or both sides worse or bad. And there have been periods where 1262 01:37:49.119 --> 01:37:54.479 both sides have been getting better on significant issues. Both sides went from being 1263 01:37:54.640 --> 01:37:58.640 not really pro free trade to pretty prow free trade over the course of the 1264 01:37:58.680 --> 01:38:01.800 seventies through the nineties. Now both sides being anti creature, right, that's 1265 01:38:01.960 --> 01:38:06.199 that thing kind of happened. Both sides went to being pretty pro abortion from 1266 01:38:06.239 --> 01:38:10.960 being anti abortion or from abortion being illegal in the country over the course of 1267 01:38:11.039 --> 01:38:14.439 the sixties in the seventies. Now one side has gone to being really anti 1268 01:38:14.520 --> 01:38:19.520 abortion and maybe maybe they'll start to retreat from that on various issues, you 1269 01:38:19.640 --> 01:38:26.279 know, one side will get better or worse. And what I'm more focused 1270 01:38:26.359 --> 01:38:30.840 on, you know, is what's going to make the Republicans a little bit 1271 01:38:30.840 --> 01:38:31.600 better or a little bit worse, or a lot better or a lot of 1272 01:38:31.880 --> 01:38:36.119 And likewise, for the Democrats, so Bernie Sanders winning the nomination or something, 1273 01:38:36.479 --> 01:38:40.000 or AOC becoming Speaker of the out of Company, it would be a 1274 01:38:40.079 --> 01:38:43.279 really bad thing or the factions that it would make, it would empower the 1275 01:38:43.359 --> 01:38:45.279 worst side of the Democrat and the Democrats are going to be half of who's 1276 01:38:45.399 --> 01:38:54.119 ruling us for the foreseeable future. Whereas you know, moderate milk toast candidates 1277 01:38:54.159 --> 01:38:59.520 who are good on abortion only moderately bad relative to Republicans on the economy, 1278 01:39:00.279 --> 01:39:02.720 Um, don't have much to say, you know, like nothing, practice 1279 01:39:02.800 --> 01:39:06.000 duckings are you know, the best we can hope for from the Democrats, 1280 01:39:06.039 --> 01:39:09.880 and so we should be hoping for it and from the Republicans. It's the 1281 01:39:09.960 --> 01:39:14.239 same thing. Do you get people like that or do you get real nialist 1282 01:39:14.319 --> 01:39:18.640 destroyers and uh, and do you get you know, people like a Paul 1283 01:39:18.760 --> 01:39:21.199 Ryan or someone like that, who has you know, some good ideas in 1284 01:39:21.319 --> 01:39:28.159 some fields and and nothing in most others, or or do you have someone 1285 01:39:28.239 --> 01:39:32.880 like a Trump? And it's that distinction that matters much more than distension between 1286 01:39:32.920 --> 01:39:40.279 the Democrats and the Republican to win the particular Yeah, green Um wake us 1287 01:39:40.319 --> 01:39:45.880 asks, what's your evaluation if charm Charles Murray's work on race? Um, 1288 01:39:46.359 --> 01:39:50.520 I think charms Murray's contemptible, not primarily because of his work on race, 1289 01:39:50.840 --> 01:39:57.479 although I think his work on race I've been I read The Belt Curb very 1290 01:39:57.600 --> 01:40:00.439 very long time ago. I don't remember all the details. I don't finding 1291 01:40:00.720 --> 01:40:06.600 I didn't find it first races, But I think there's a general deterministic mindset. 1292 01:40:06.680 --> 01:40:13.000 He has a kind of thinking that we're made mostly by our biology, 1293 01:40:13.600 --> 01:40:20.439 and a real and not by our choices, and a real collectivist dick impulse, 1294 01:40:20.800 --> 01:40:25.319 but running throughout his thinking. And I'll tell you the thing that most 1295 01:40:25.439 --> 01:40:29.239 horrified me when I read it by Murray, much more than anything he said 1296 01:40:29.239 --> 01:40:31.479 about race. Again, I think he's wrong and bad and a lot of 1297 01:40:31.600 --> 01:40:34.640 things he says about race, But this is the thing that most concerned me. 1298 01:40:35.319 --> 01:40:42.720 Wasn't his book coming apart where He was bemoaning the fact that if you 1299 01:40:42.840 --> 01:40:46.479 were really smart, way back in the day, whenever he thinks it was 1300 01:40:46.680 --> 01:40:50.479 good m a smart man, you know, you go to college with other 1301 01:40:50.560 --> 01:40:55.479 men, but there'd be no women there. And you go back to your 1302 01:40:55.920 --> 01:41:00.880 hometown and find the smartest girl in your you know, hometown who wouldn't be 1303 01:41:00.079 --> 01:41:06.039 that smart, and you get married to her and have kids whose intelligence would 1304 01:41:06.039 --> 01:41:09.800 be average, maybe a little bit raised by your intelligence, but brought down 1305 01:41:09.880 --> 01:41:12.880 by your wife. And if you were a really smart women in the town, 1306 01:41:13.279 --> 01:41:15.039 you know whatever, you bury the local farmer. But now that women 1307 01:41:15.159 --> 01:41:19.640 go and get educations to the smartest men find the smartest women, and they 1308 01:41:19.720 --> 01:41:23.760 can come together and they can be super smart and have super smart kids, 1309 01:41:23.920 --> 01:41:26.560 and then there won't be in there for people in the country who won't be 1310 01:41:26.720 --> 01:41:30.800 very stupid able. And he why, I think it's silly to think that 1311 01:41:30.840 --> 01:41:34.159 that that happens, is what's happening. But to the bemoaning of the fact 1312 01:41:34.479 --> 01:41:41.000 that intelligent people can find one another, that's disgusting, it's despicable. And 1313 01:41:41.199 --> 01:41:44.800 if if you think something like that is happening, you're like, finally the 1314 01:41:44.960 --> 01:41:47.399 best of you know, smartest, most ambitious, most, whatever positive try 1315 01:41:47.479 --> 01:41:53.039 you think you have of both genders are able to develop themselves to the utmost 1316 01:41:53.079 --> 01:41:56.680 and get to know one another, and you regard that as anything less than 1317 01:41:56.760 --> 01:42:01.239 a past it wonderful thing that any possible downside of which he is marginal and 1318 01:42:01.319 --> 01:42:06.920 could easily be dealt with. I think he's there's something really spiritually despicable about 1319 01:42:06.960 --> 01:42:12.600 that, and I think of him as this kind of decrepid, envious, 1320 01:42:12.760 --> 01:42:17.720 collectivest soul strolling around through the earth, spreading his sick misery. So that's 1321 01:42:17.760 --> 01:42:20.079 when I think of him spiritually. Now, what do I think of his 1322 01:42:20.199 --> 01:42:29.600 figures? He's not I find what he's There's something odd in this kind of 1323 01:42:29.680 --> 01:42:32.239 fixation on IQ, a lot of which I think is kind of bogus. 1324 01:42:32.319 --> 01:42:36.560 The science. I think there's something strange about the way it's driving his work. 1325 01:42:36.600 --> 01:42:43.720 I think the things that that John mcwater has written in response to him 1326 01:42:43.760 --> 01:42:47.880 about about it, I think are largely right and have a kind of wisdom 1327 01:42:47.920 --> 01:42:53.640 to them. On the other hand, he's treated as a kind of evil 1328 01:42:53.800 --> 01:42:57.880 non person who anyone talking to is therefore, um, you know, continning 1329 01:42:57.920 --> 01:43:00.239 some kind of thought crime or whatever. And I think that's awful. It's 1330 01:43:00.319 --> 01:43:04.720 awful that there was violent when he spoke at Middlebury, and that's totally unacceptable. 1331 01:43:05.920 --> 01:43:09.079 On the other hand, the response to it by saying, well, 1332 01:43:09.119 --> 01:43:12.119 he's you know, wonderful and one of us because other people don't like him 1333 01:43:12.239 --> 01:43:15.239 is not the right response to that. But um, you know, he's 1334 01:43:15.439 --> 01:43:18.279 one of these kinds of people. I don't regard him as any kind of 1335 01:43:18.319 --> 01:43:23.039 an ally in the fight or freedom. Um. I don't regard him as 1336 01:43:23.239 --> 01:43:28.800 as pointing to staffs that are otherwise hitting that people don't know. Everyone knows 1337 01:43:28.840 --> 01:43:32.239 there's a lot of uh, you know, disproportionate racur prime and African American 1338 01:43:32.279 --> 01:43:36.079 community and so forth. That's not you know, some great revelation. Um. 1339 01:43:36.359 --> 01:43:39.319 There are a lot of questions about why and what to do about it. 1340 01:43:39.399 --> 01:43:44.399 But I don't think he should as much. I don't know. Um 1341 01:43:44.600 --> 01:43:49.319 from Wick again, what do you think about Fire defending Amy Wax? Um? 1342 01:43:51.159 --> 01:43:59.000 This one I find a little more. It's a similar issue in a 1343 01:43:59.079 --> 01:44:03.720 way. So I think LAX's views are also pretty contemptible. Yeah. I 1344 01:44:03.960 --> 01:44:11.319 think Fire's conception of free speech in general, much wider than the Lax issue, 1345 01:44:12.000 --> 01:44:15.039 is mistaken. There are things that they're very good on, but they 1346 01:44:15.159 --> 01:44:18.319 don't think they really understand the issue of free speech. They come out of 1347 01:44:18.439 --> 01:44:23.319 the free speech movement of nineteen sixty five, the kind of protests at Berkeley 1348 01:44:23.319 --> 01:44:27.399 into the fourth which ran condemned at the time for the very reasons that are 1349 01:44:27.439 --> 01:44:30.720 relevant now. They're one of their kind of things that all the kind of 1350 01:44:30.880 --> 01:44:33.680 free speech folks down from the ones that fire are very proud of was the 1351 01:44:34.079 --> 01:44:40.239 acoused defense of the Nazis right to march it Skokie. But the Nazis didn't 1352 01:44:40.279 --> 01:44:44.359 have a right to march it Scipe if not a moral right, and the 1353 01:44:44.600 --> 01:44:46.840 laws shouldn't be set up to have that right. Now, if we're going 1354 01:44:46.920 --> 01:44:50.319 to let everybody else launch, you can't just exclude the Nazis until in that 1355 01:44:50.439 --> 01:44:56.319 sense it's true, But there's a kind of sense that free speech means everybody 1356 01:44:56.399 --> 01:45:00.600 being tolerant of everything, and therefore when somebody's idea, thought, speech are 1357 01:45:00.680 --> 01:45:05.800 intolerated by some party, that therefore that group is a persecuted minority like that 1358 01:45:05.880 --> 01:45:10.960 other questioner asked about Trump and people should rally to their side, and I 1359 01:45:11.039 --> 01:45:14.640 don't think that's true. It's not a violation of anyone's free speech, not 1360 01:45:14.680 --> 01:45:16.000 to want to have dinner with them, not to want to talk to them, 1361 01:45:16.279 --> 01:45:18.560 not to want to debate them. To regard to this, beyond the 1362 01:45:18.640 --> 01:45:24.920 pan and some of the things that Wax has held, I think should place 1363 01:45:25.000 --> 01:45:30.359 her outside of most pans that said, she has tenure at a university. 1364 01:45:30.880 --> 01:45:35.880 There's a ten year contract that specifies under what terms she could be fired or 1365 01:45:35.920 --> 01:45:41.079 not buyed to. So for it that those kind of contracts, for better 1366 01:45:41.199 --> 01:45:44.880 or worse, be respected, I think it's important to be part of how 1367 01:45:44.960 --> 01:45:51.880 you defend your rights is through contracting and making contracts with you know that you 1368 01:45:51.960 --> 01:45:59.600 can rely on it. And so if it turns out that attempts to dismiss 1369 01:45:59.640 --> 01:46:02.880 Amy run afoul of her contract, then she should be defended and it made 1370 01:46:02.880 --> 01:46:05.439 sense or fire to defender. And I don't know that's an issue of exactly 1371 01:46:05.560 --> 01:46:12.119 how their contract is written, but some of the things I've heard her say, 1372 01:46:13.479 --> 01:46:17.600 I think they're incompatible with being with being a teacher. If you're teaching 1373 01:46:17.720 --> 01:46:21.880 people and you're saying publicly like my Asian students are this way and my Black 1374 01:46:21.960 --> 01:46:26.760 students are that way. Even if that's true, it's not, it's not, 1375 01:46:26.840 --> 01:46:29.840 which I don't think it is, but it's not. You have certain 1376 01:46:29.880 --> 01:46:35.079 responsibilities to about how you discuss the people who you're teaching or in your charge 1377 01:46:35.079 --> 01:46:38.359 in that sense, but I think are part of taking on that kind of 1378 01:46:38.399 --> 01:46:41.880 a job, and I think that some of the comments made a violation of 1379 01:46:42.000 --> 01:46:47.520 that. And she's part of a really ugly current in American thought that starts 1380 01:46:49.920 --> 01:46:57.119 later after the Civil War, where you get a certain kind of distortion of 1381 01:46:58.079 --> 01:47:02.720 liberalism that comes to think that freedom is and a respect for freedom and I 1382 01:47:02.760 --> 01:47:08.520 wanted to vote for the system that will keep us free is part of some 1383 01:47:08.760 --> 01:47:14.039 special feature of white Europeans and only white Huropeans having, can have, or 1384 01:47:14.079 --> 01:47:17.039 are likely to ever get, and so that the key to keeping the free 1385 01:47:17.159 --> 01:47:23.560 nation is to make it unfree and get rid of freedom of association in various 1386 01:47:23.560 --> 01:47:27.439 ways so as to keep it white. That is I think a really horrible 1387 01:47:27.720 --> 01:47:30.840 of you that have a really horrible history was related to some of the horrible 1388 01:47:30.920 --> 01:47:33.520 laws that we talked about before, and it's what whacks as Defendom is a 1389 01:47:33.600 --> 01:47:38.760 proponent. And I think it's been a real mistake on the part of advocates 1390 01:47:38.800 --> 01:47:43.840 of free speech that they've not just said, you know, it might be 1391 01:47:43.920 --> 01:47:48.079 wrong that this horrible woman get fired, given her given her contract and the 1392 01:47:48.119 --> 01:47:53.199 principle of which are waning universities, but the regarding her as an ally or 1393 01:47:53.199 --> 01:47:56.520 a friend. And I was at the Stamford Conference on Academic Freedom where she 1394 01:47:56.720 --> 01:48:01.039 was, and I was bothered by how friendly reception she got. By even 1395 01:48:01.079 --> 01:48:06.199 now, I think you should know that. Were you concerned about the financial 1396 01:48:06.520 --> 01:48:13.600 about financial prospects when you chose an intellectual career? Yeah, but I had 1397 01:48:13.680 --> 01:48:17.399 reasons to be less and I had to the first thing, Like, when 1398 01:48:17.399 --> 01:48:26.319 I went into college, I had the sense that you have to go somewhere 1399 01:48:26.640 --> 01:48:29.760 and get some degree in something that sets you up for some job. But 1400 01:48:29.840 --> 01:48:31.239 if you get the wrong degree and you can't get a job in that thing, 1401 01:48:31.520 --> 01:48:34.600 you know, so you end up in the Bowery somewhere. And I 1402 01:48:34.640 --> 01:48:39.319 didn't quite literally do that, but it's kind of the premise I was operating 1403 01:48:39.399 --> 01:48:44.239 more and after my think I told this story before, maybe even on the 1404 01:48:44.279 --> 01:48:47.560 show, but after my freshman year in college, by which time I was 1405 01:48:47.680 --> 01:48:54.520 very interested in philosophy and I got out of trumb I got a job through 1406 01:48:54.560 --> 01:49:00.359 a camp agency, basically doing the lowest kind of data entry thing you could 1407 01:49:00.399 --> 01:49:03.399 do at an office. It was it was an office that was it was 1408 01:49:03.439 --> 01:49:09.680 part of the ATAM data And I realized that not well run, this data 1409 01:49:09.720 --> 01:49:12.159 that I'm entering is going to be obsolete by the end of the summer when 1410 01:49:12.159 --> 01:49:15.520 I was supposed to be done entering it. Plus I'm moving data from a 1411 01:49:15.600 --> 01:49:18.600 moving sort whatever. So I ended up writing some scripts to automate that job. 1412 01:49:19.239 --> 01:49:23.039 I didn't have any particular background in programming. I learned a little bit 1413 01:49:23.079 --> 01:49:26.800 of programming when I was a kid and then forgot it. And you know, 1414 01:49:26.880 --> 01:49:29.840 it wasn't the language as I was using that, but its just I 1415 01:49:30.239 --> 01:49:31.119 was thinking, like, this isn't the way to do things. I was 1416 01:49:31.159 --> 01:49:34.520 paying attention to why I was being asked to do when I was doing, 1417 01:49:34.600 --> 01:49:39.119 how it was fitting into the larger workflow. What could I do to make 1418 01:49:39.119 --> 01:49:41.960 it better? Right at this? And I ended up getting basically promoted to 1419 01:49:42.039 --> 01:49:45.279 writing other programs to do other things like that. And I just paid a 1420 01:49:45.319 --> 01:49:49.640 lot of attention to, like what's going on at this business, who's good 1421 01:49:49.640 --> 01:49:53.960 at their job and who isn't, who's recognized for being good at their job? 1422 01:49:53.960 --> 01:49:58.239 But it was what's making this place run? And I realized, yeah, 1423 01:49:58.359 --> 01:50:00.319 I could do well here, I could get promotions here, I can 1424 01:50:00.319 --> 01:50:02.840 go work, or I can go to another company and do something like this. 1425 01:50:03.119 --> 01:50:08.000 The things that are making me able to add value aren't that I have 1426 01:50:08.159 --> 01:50:11.600 this degree or this piece of paper or this particular piece of knowledge, but 1427 01:50:11.760 --> 01:50:14.680 that I'm being rational. I'm thinking about what the point of this work is. 1428 01:50:15.199 --> 01:50:17.840 And it makes sense. It's like at Les Sharp says, there's the 1429 01:50:17.880 --> 01:50:21.159 mind, and the mind makes things work, and it's not always a person 1430 01:50:21.199 --> 01:50:24.560 at the top. And you can find a place to add value. And 1431 01:50:25.119 --> 01:50:29.000 the next summer one of my best friends did the same thing. You can 1432 01:50:29.079 --> 01:50:32.399 have a job also data entry at another place. Found things he could you 1433 01:50:32.640 --> 01:50:35.399 learn to code and you knew less about putting a good idea, was pulling 1434 01:50:35.439 --> 01:50:39.439 me up, how do I do this function or whatever? Wrote some software 1435 01:50:39.439 --> 01:50:41.560 for them, did some other things, ended up as a vice president of 1436 01:50:41.640 --> 01:50:45.079 that company, and then went on left with the CEO of that company to 1437 01:50:45.159 --> 01:50:48.199 go found another company and had a you know, a good career in business. 1438 01:50:48.279 --> 01:50:51.159 And and I just had the sense that oh, if you think, 1439 01:50:51.239 --> 01:50:55.840 if you're thoughtful, if your industrious, if you're looking for opportunities, there 1440 01:50:55.880 --> 01:50:59.760 are ways to work your way up and make money. So I'm not it's 1441 01:50:59.800 --> 01:51:01.319 not life. I'm gonna be a bomb at the philosophies of work out. 1442 01:51:01.359 --> 01:51:06.199 And moreover, the one thing, given my interest in my skill sets that's 1443 01:51:06.279 --> 01:51:12.800 really fostering what's good about what I value in myself and makes be able to 1444 01:51:12.880 --> 01:51:15.239 do this is possible. So I'm not losing anything my study. And so 1445 01:51:15.359 --> 01:51:18.960 that was my first decision when I was in college, that may be very 1446 01:51:19.039 --> 01:51:24.079 confident in pursuing a philosophy major and thinking that the philosophy is relevant and I 1447 01:51:24.119 --> 01:51:26.319 can find a way to use it in business, but I need to or 1448 01:51:26.359 --> 01:51:29.479 in some other field. And then the other thing that made me more confident 1449 01:51:30.279 --> 01:51:31.840 is by the time I was in graduate school and getting out of graduatedool, 1450 01:51:31.840 --> 01:51:36.079 there are more and more opportunities through handsom and through a RII to do work 1451 01:51:36.159 --> 01:51:42.039 as an specifically objectivist intellectual. There was interested I ran that a market for 1452 01:51:42.880 --> 01:51:47.880 or non for work on her that made possible none inventional scholarly for your path. 1453 01:51:48.239 --> 01:51:51.000 And most of my work has been, you know, in one way 1454 01:51:51.079 --> 01:51:55.840 or another part of that. So I realized that that existed, and I'm 1455 01:51:56.039 --> 01:52:00.239 very pleased mind and grateful for those opportunities. But I also like all the 1456 01:52:00.279 --> 01:52:03.479 market and so that that was you know, possible, and that influenced some 1457 01:52:03.600 --> 01:52:06.439 decisions about how open I was on what I work for, what things I 1458 01:52:06.479 --> 01:52:11.560 wrote, not saying that every decision I need with right or perfect or my 1459 01:52:11.600 --> 01:52:18.399 career it is you know, part of being productive is thinking what is there 1460 01:52:18.399 --> 01:52:20.560 a market for? How can I make there be a market for the things 1461 01:52:20.680 --> 01:52:26.119 I wanted to yep um, which says why should we criticize the right? 1462 01:52:26.239 --> 01:52:30.199 When the left dominated the major institutions academia, media, Hollywood, tech, 1463 01:52:30.279 --> 01:52:36.079 medical establishment, et cetera. I don't understand the question, and the last 1464 01:52:36.640 --> 01:52:42.920 dominated some institutions, the rights dominates others. They're both important factors in the 1465 01:52:43.079 --> 01:52:46.560 culture, and they feed off on another. They're not enemies. They're part 1466 01:52:46.600 --> 01:52:55.399 of one system by which ideas propagated and and take hold. And why should 1467 01:52:55.479 --> 01:52:59.920 we in particular criticize the right that is me and your because the people who 1468 01:53:00.079 --> 01:53:05.560 are apt to listen to us already are more aware of constrong with alec Yeah, 1469 01:53:09.079 --> 01:53:13.600 why do you give so little credit to Christian tradition when many good ideas 1470 01:53:13.720 --> 01:53:17.119 arise from it? Though the good ideas I influenced by Greek philosophy, they 1471 01:53:17.199 --> 01:53:25.920 still manifested itself in this tradition. I don't think. I'm not convinced any 1472 01:53:26.000 --> 01:53:33.520 good ideas didn't come from that treasure. Whatever dominant type ideology there is, 1473 01:53:34.119 --> 01:53:39.800 whether it's a religion or a philosophy, other ideas that are around independent of 1474 01:53:39.880 --> 01:53:43.159 it, will get a created to it and maybe spread or passed along with 1475 01:53:43.319 --> 01:53:45.520 it, wrapped up in it. And there are some good ideas that got 1476 01:53:45.760 --> 01:53:50.880 spread and wrapped up with Christianity and some people's minds, you know, sandwich, 1477 01:53:50.920 --> 01:53:54.119 but I don't think any of them come from it or were developed because 1478 01:53:54.159 --> 01:53:56.920 of it. There might be some, I'm not you know, closed to 1479 01:53:57.000 --> 01:54:00.079 that possibility. I could think of some possible ones, truly, if you're 1480 01:54:00.119 --> 01:54:05.520 interesting. But I don't really think the good ideas that having come from it, 1481 01:54:05.520 --> 01:54:10.039 and I don't think it gets credit for the you know, things that 1482 01:54:10.159 --> 01:54:13.520 traveled along with it, despite being contrary to its nature. And the same 1483 01:54:13.600 --> 01:54:17.159 goes for Islam, and the same goes for Judaism, and the same goes 1484 01:54:17.399 --> 01:54:20.640 for Eastern religions that you know, I'm sure the same thing is true of 1485 01:54:21.279 --> 01:54:29.359 in Hinduism and Buddhism and so forth, and the same goes for various you 1486 01:54:29.439 --> 01:54:33.520 know, nominally secular creeds like Marxism. You could say all certain intellectuality goes 1487 01:54:33.520 --> 01:54:38.159 along with that, or interesting history goes along with that, and those things 1488 01:54:38.199 --> 01:54:41.479 are true, and it's good that people are interested in arguments during history, 1489 01:54:41.560 --> 01:54:45.560 but it's not due to anything about Marxism. It's just those things gets hyped 1490 01:54:45.600 --> 01:54:49.279 into some people's you know, got tied up with Marxism. But some people 1491 01:54:49.279 --> 01:54:54.000 and some people's passed through those good things for through it, but not for 1492 01:54:54.119 --> 01:54:58.520 any reason. You know. That's you to what's distinctive about bad ideology. 1493 01:54:58.560 --> 01:55:00.760 The same with Christianity, same with this long say with Junias. That's how 1494 01:55:00.800 --> 01:55:06.359 I think about that um as you say, anything good, It's possible in 1495 01:55:06.479 --> 01:55:16.760 my mind that had some role in UM in breaking down um views of anate 1496 01:55:16.840 --> 01:55:21.720 different innate differences among people that justify authority, just of my political authority, 1497 01:55:23.039 --> 01:55:26.960 that we each have it in an individual relationship with God and as therefore were 1498 01:55:27.000 --> 01:55:30.119 all equal in our connection with God being a metaphor or all equal in our 1499 01:55:30.159 --> 01:55:35.279 connection to reality and um et cetera. There's a kind of egalitarianism in Christianity 1500 01:55:35.319 --> 01:55:42.239 which I think is overall bad. But UM was perhaps in some contexts a 1501 01:55:43.199 --> 01:55:49.039 UM, you know, counter force to UM a kind of tribal worship of 1502 01:55:49.119 --> 01:55:53.399 power or chieftains, and you know, maybe had some others that I'm not 1503 01:55:53.520 --> 01:55:59.279 convinced of that, but I can see some case from So speaking of Christian 1504 01:55:59.439 --> 01:56:04.119 governments almost all theocracies run by empowered lasses for almost all of its history, 1505 01:56:04.479 --> 01:56:08.760 makes me think that whatever elements might have been compatible with that. So, 1506 01:56:09.439 --> 01:56:15.199 you know, hitch hikers not saying the sexual to the s kfax ass As 1507 01:56:15.239 --> 01:56:17.600 a follow up, speaking Christianity, what's the origin of the idea that Christianity 1508 01:56:17.680 --> 01:56:23.840 is the foundation of individualism? I hooded in the Wild recently and have been 1509 01:56:23.920 --> 01:56:29.880 wondering about it since. UM there's a period where ran sympathetic to this idea. 1510 01:56:30.840 --> 01:56:33.600 I think it's in UM. In Roles Wild, they're Lane and it 1511 01:56:33.880 --> 01:56:39.560 is about Patterson somewhat UM, maybe more Lane than than Patterson. UM. 1512 01:56:39.640 --> 01:56:45.800 But in some of the kinds of intellectual libertarian intellectuals, some of the Paul 1513 01:56:45.880 --> 01:56:51.319 themselves libertarian individuals, intellectuals of the forties. UM. I don't know where 1514 01:56:51.319 --> 01:56:57.560 it originally comes from. You can see, I mean, there is a 1515 01:56:57.760 --> 01:57:00.880 real individualism in lock and Locke is a Christian and some of how he puts 1516 01:57:00.920 --> 01:57:04.960 it is tied up with um, not really Christianity so much as a kind 1517 01:57:05.000 --> 01:57:11.520 of general seism that he has. He is a Christian, but the parts 1518 01:57:11.600 --> 01:57:15.279 of it that he draws on in his political writings are much more generalized views 1519 01:57:15.279 --> 01:57:17.960 about than as a specifical as Christian. So there is you know, that 1520 01:57:18.159 --> 01:57:24.800 history of it developing, Um a lock. You know how how locks he 1521 01:57:24.840 --> 01:57:28.239 has developed and were received. That's like you developed, But I haven't traced 1522 01:57:28.520 --> 01:57:34.239 the claim who first was saying in and grabbedto Christianity and how to describe. 1523 01:57:35.399 --> 01:57:39.960 Brand's kind of interesting on this because she if you look at her early notes, 1524 01:57:40.880 --> 01:57:45.159 Um, when she's first writing, she's these Christianity. It's like the 1525 01:57:45.439 --> 01:57:48.560 enemy. It's the perfect kindergarten for communism. She wants to see may be 1526 01:57:48.720 --> 01:57:53.960 known as the harshest critic of religion and the greatest enemy and so forth, 1527 01:57:54.039 --> 01:57:56.600 and it's a source of all hypocrisy. It's just, I mean, you 1528 01:57:56.800 --> 01:58:01.800 can't imagine them who are anti religious rum around the late forties, early fifty 1529 01:58:02.079 --> 01:58:09.600 fifties, Um, she's you know, still about religious anti religions, still 1530 01:58:09.600 --> 01:58:19.600 an atheist and still very fiery about that, but allowing that um, Christianity 1531 01:58:19.720 --> 01:58:25.079 might have been important spreading individualism, that she might have more in common with 1532 01:58:25.159 --> 01:58:27.479 some of the better christianstinuers. She came to have a lot of respect for 1533 01:58:27.800 --> 01:58:31.560 appliments, for example, Um. And but you know, by the mid 1534 01:58:31.760 --> 01:58:38.800 sixties and certainly into the seventies, she became very interned about professional religionists taking 1535 01:58:38.840 --> 01:58:43.920 over the conservatives movement. As a communist at the liberal movement, she thought 1536 01:58:43.960 --> 01:58:45.800 those things for analogists, she thought it was happening, though it had happened 1537 01:58:46.159 --> 01:58:54.319 by the time of Reagan. And you don't find anything positive about religion after 1538 01:58:54.399 --> 01:59:01.600 that. Uh. Paulo asks, have you read The Senses as Perceptual Systems 1539 01:59:02.359 --> 01:59:11.800 the book? I assume so, if you mean Gibson's book, then yes. 1540 01:59:12.079 --> 01:59:16.640 But Manning, I mean like twenty years ago. Okay. Leam asks, 1541 01:59:17.239 --> 01:59:23.239 yep, Will so security be the first major socialist system to be privatized 1542 01:59:23.720 --> 01:59:28.600 since it's going bankrupt much sooner than expected and it's the easiest way to transfer 1543 01:59:28.720 --> 01:59:33.479 it to private system. I have no idea. Yeah, I mean I 1544 01:59:33.680 --> 01:59:40.680 doubt I doubt it. I think it's one of the last uh Ian asked, 1545 01:59:40.880 --> 01:59:45.960 have you read much about the Niana n y a y a school of 1546 01:59:46.039 --> 01:59:53.000 Indian philosophy which had a strong emphasis and epistemology. No. Interestingly, I 1547 01:59:53.159 --> 01:59:58.960 heard an interview about it just earlier today, M book. It was recently 1548 01:59:59.000 --> 02:00:02.840 translated, um, and then the book seemed interesting, But I haven't read 1549 02:00:02.960 --> 02:00:06.840 much about it. I don't know very much about Indian or Chinese philosophy. 1550 02:00:08.920 --> 02:00:13.159 UM. I think they're worth someone studying, and they're worth my you know, 1551 02:00:14.079 --> 02:00:15.079 learning a little bit more than I do, maybe a lot more, 1552 02:00:15.119 --> 02:00:18.039 but starting with a little. But you know, a lot of things they're 1553 02:00:18.039 --> 02:00:21.319 worth looking into, and there's always a much science. I don't know what 1554 02:00:21.399 --> 02:00:28.039 I'll get doing. Kfax asks Alex Epstein is doing great wook and energy policy, 1555 02:00:28.119 --> 02:00:30.560 but which industry would you like to see the next Alex take on? 1556 02:00:36.479 --> 02:00:42.680 I don't really love the question. It so much depends on the person and 1557 02:00:42.800 --> 02:00:45.439 what they know about and have a passion for it, you know. But 1558 02:00:45.960 --> 02:00:48.039 some industries where I think something could be done, and I'm trying to help 1559 02:00:48.159 --> 02:00:53.359 some things get done. One is healthcare, and I'm planning. I have 1560 02:00:53.439 --> 02:00:57.119 a group of people beating the talk about the healthcare industry and planning to type 1561 02:00:57.119 --> 02:01:00.199 of confidence about it. UM. So healthcare is the point. UM. 1562 02:01:01.560 --> 02:01:05.279 Probably finance would be good. UM. And you know Run has done some 1563 02:01:05.720 --> 02:01:09.840 something that you wrote down together with the books on finance. I think there's 1564 02:01:09.840 --> 02:01:13.359 a lot more that could be done. This kind of you clearly vilified industry 1565 02:01:14.000 --> 02:01:20.920 UM and important to most people don't don't recognize UM tech like AI and I 1566 02:01:21.079 --> 02:01:26.520 get it. It's hard to UM, they're not in the same sense as 1567 02:01:26.720 --> 02:01:31.279 you know, you need a very different approach to the industry said than the 1568 02:01:32.119 --> 02:01:36.680 it's not that they're seeing as the villains exactly also progressive, you know more 1569 02:01:36.680 --> 02:01:42.399 and more they are. UM, it's more where you need to be doing 1570 02:01:42.520 --> 02:01:49.039 is reframing the issues UM that the industries Contenderal, which in Galaxy has done 1571 02:01:49.039 --> 02:01:53.920 a lot of the industry imagery. I kind of sense a kind of challenge 1572 02:01:53.960 --> 02:02:00.479 involved in the tech industry is just different, less more measurements to be changed 1573 02:02:00.640 --> 02:02:06.319 to port the strateud of yea, yeah, I agree with those. Mark 1574 02:02:06.840 --> 02:02:11.760 says, UM, what is going on with the Salem Center and similar think 1575 02:02:11.800 --> 02:02:15.239 tanks right now and what would be some ways to get involved and take to 1576 02:02:15.319 --> 02:02:26.479 action UM muture what counts as a similar think tanks as I think that the 1577 02:02:26.520 --> 02:02:31.800 Salem Center is kind of eclectic. It's a group of academics on campus who 1578 02:02:31.880 --> 02:02:38.800 have views outside of the mainstream, which views aligned with one another on being 1579 02:02:39.319 --> 02:02:43.479 pro capitalism and pro free markets, but not necessarily on much out So there 1580 02:02:43.520 --> 02:02:45.479 are some people work there I agree on a lot of other things on people. 1581 02:02:45.720 --> 02:02:48.399 You know, it's it's not all. It's not all one thing, 1582 02:02:48.880 --> 02:02:53.960 um. I think in general, the two things you can do for a 1583 02:02:54.079 --> 02:02:58.039 group that you're interested in, whether it's the Salem Center by program half, 1584 02:02:58.039 --> 02:03:00.880 the Saling Center or the Center in general, or any other group worthin tank, 1585 02:03:01.159 --> 02:03:04.359 is you can follow them and see what programming they have and what you 1586 02:03:04.439 --> 02:03:06.880 might want to get involved in. So in our case, you could follow 1587 02:03:06.920 --> 02:03:10.399 our YouTube channel and you can see what comes up on the YouTube channel and 1588 02:03:10.520 --> 02:03:12.800 watch it. You could get on our mailing list, which you could do 1589 02:03:12.840 --> 02:03:15.000 with Sale and Center got organ You can get mailed about our events and cut 1590 02:03:15.039 --> 02:03:18.720 out to them and so become a consumer of their content. And then if 1591 02:03:18.760 --> 02:03:23.399 you really value the content, I want to get more involved. You could 1592 02:03:23.560 --> 02:03:29.680 donate money or you could volunteering tool and one opportunity that they might do that 1593 02:03:29.680 --> 02:03:32.520 will depend on the the organization. We don't have a quite a volunteering program. 1594 02:03:32.600 --> 02:03:35.399 But if somebody you know, road and said I'd like to help you 1595 02:03:35.439 --> 02:03:39.600 guys out, what can I do? Depending on when it was out there, 1596 02:03:40.119 --> 02:03:45.720 we get an idea. Um Marcus says, asks our thoughts on the 1597 02:03:45.800 --> 02:03:51.880 Austrian School, and then you're twenty twenty three, twenty four plans thought somebody 1598 02:03:51.880 --> 02:03:57.319 Austrian School. I'm not an economist. I'm not that knowledgeable about economics, 1599 02:03:57.359 --> 02:04:00.880 so I don't know how much to you I am really qualif I could say 1600 02:04:00.880 --> 02:04:06.880 about it what I've read of on mesas in particular, and to a lesser 1601 02:04:06.920 --> 02:04:11.720 understand how I've learned from and think there's some wisdom there are there are also 1602 02:04:11.840 --> 02:04:15.760 some philosophical errors. UM. I found Rob Tar's piece which you mentioned before, 1603 02:04:16.359 --> 02:04:20.520 on a series of value and the different schools of economics and Particulmunia stakes 1604 02:04:20.560 --> 02:04:26.960 on the Austrians very suggestive and in you know, inspiring of thoughts. But 1605 02:04:27.039 --> 02:04:30.840 I don't know enough about all the thinkers in the school too, um, 1606 02:04:31.359 --> 02:04:34.720 you know, to to be certain everything about this about an expert on it. 1607 02:04:35.399 --> 02:04:39.640 UM. I think it's it's kind of tragic that this kind of thinking 1608 02:04:39.640 --> 02:04:45.039 about economics has gotten tied up with anarchism, as it has largely through through 1609 02:04:45.119 --> 02:04:49.359 Rothbart and when they were deeper causes of that than just the influence of this 1610 02:04:49.640 --> 02:04:54.840 this I'm a linking figure. I'm not sure I could think of some things 1611 02:04:54.920 --> 02:04:59.279 that might be um because that's sort of a general fut about it. And 1612 02:04:59.439 --> 02:05:02.079 and the sort of popular Australian writers they tend to always be predicting to include 1613 02:05:02.680 --> 02:05:11.279 and you know be you know stopped. Yeah, all right, Action Jackson. 1614 02:05:12.399 --> 02:05:15.479 The other one, Oh your plans for twenty twenty three, twenty four. 1615 02:05:15.439 --> 02:05:19.159 So for the next year I'm teaching. I'm teaching a few classes that 1616 02:05:19.560 --> 02:05:27.199 Texas. Up course of the year, I'm going to We're probably having a 1617 02:05:27.279 --> 02:05:31.359 conference on healthcare policy in the fall, precise states to be determined in personnel, 1618 02:05:32.079 --> 02:05:36.199 that's something I'm looking into. Conference ethical issues in the spring, and 1619 02:05:36.319 --> 02:05:43.239 probably some smaller workshops and um, I don't want to into all the ny 1620 02:05:43.279 --> 02:05:48.880 projects papers and books that I want to be off the door. So Action 1621 02:05:49.000 --> 02:05:54.600 Jackson says, Nice Gibson SG back there. Who are some of your favorite 1622 02:05:54.640 --> 02:06:00.560 guitar players and or bands? Well, that's only one they want to any 1623 02:06:00.640 --> 02:06:04.600 over there that's out of shot that I have a lot of guitars UM some 1624 02:06:04.840 --> 02:06:12.479 of my favorite with guitar players and band UM well favorite bands of Pinos. 1625 02:06:12.520 --> 02:06:17.720 I don't think there's any comparton him the overall musicianship and influenced UM. But 1626 02:06:18.479 --> 02:06:21.560 I really I play a lot of blues. I listened to a lot of 1627 02:06:21.600 --> 02:06:30.560 blues and I like UM blues players particularly, I love Peter King and who 1628 02:06:30.640 --> 02:06:33.239 lets understand Albert and Freddie. I love the money Waters bands and al with 1629 02:06:33.319 --> 02:06:40.520 Wolf bands, Little Walter UM. For that's kind of where my guitar playing 1630 02:06:40.720 --> 02:06:44.720 influenced kind of tastes in music are. That's the kind of music I mostly 1631 02:06:44.760 --> 02:06:48.159 play. That's musically UM. Also about Dylan UM, the band that is, 1632 02:06:48.199 --> 02:06:55.680 the Leave on Home, Robbie robertson band UM particular guitar players UM all. 1633 02:06:55.720 --> 02:07:00.520 Since there's an SG there, I should mention UM Jan Alman and now 1634 02:07:00.880 --> 02:07:08.159 Derek Trucks both SG players at least in slide you really fantastic players. On 1635 02:07:08.319 --> 02:07:12.720 seeing the Jesse Trucks band sometimes in May when they come to Texas. UH, 1636 02:07:13.279 --> 02:07:15.680 people playing now, I think he's the best guitar player in the end 1637 02:07:15.680 --> 02:07:23.960 of Blues, Influences, Trucks um Action. Jackson also asks are there any 1638 02:07:24.079 --> 02:07:29.560 blogs you frequently visit or recommend reading resources? How about something you think we've 1639 02:07:29.640 --> 02:07:32.399 never heard of? Any topics resources, news, economics, tack, etc. 1640 02:07:33.560 --> 02:07:40.159 Wow, um oh sub stack these days yeah. Um. And then 1641 02:07:40.199 --> 02:07:46.880 I read and or listen to some of very wise and stuff um The Dispatch 1642 02:07:47.439 --> 02:07:53.239 particularly. I really like their legal podcast with sarahs Gary David French, which 1643 02:07:53.319 --> 02:07:57.760 is called Advisory Opinions. Whether one degrees or disagrees with their particular takes on 1644 02:07:57.840 --> 02:08:00.680 the look, they're very kind of informati about what is going on on the 1645 02:08:00.880 --> 02:08:03.359 dock end and one of the legal issues that are that are coming about. 1646 02:08:05.039 --> 02:08:11.239 Um. So I listened to that podcast a lot. Um. Oh we 1647 02:08:11.319 --> 02:08:15.439 talked about Richard Hanania. Oh yeah, Richard we were talking about before. 1648 02:08:15.479 --> 02:08:20.520 He's associated with the with the sales up there, um, but really mostly 1649 02:08:20.640 --> 02:08:24.239 independent after the intellectual something gives talks here once in a while, his his 1650 02:08:24.600 --> 02:08:28.760 blog and some staff. I guess it's been really good in the past few 1651 02:08:28.800 --> 02:08:33.119 months. On a surprising number of visually only got onto it a few months 1652 02:08:33.119 --> 02:08:37.720 ago, but almost everything I've read by him has been been really interesting. 1653 02:08:37.239 --> 02:08:43.760 Um on different particular issues. This is a podcast ring the blog, but 1654 02:08:43.000 --> 02:08:46.279 there's a podcast, the History of Philosophy podcasts, but I think it's really 1655 02:08:46.840 --> 02:08:50.359 valuable on the history of philosophy, uh, and some of them too. 1656 02:08:50.479 --> 02:08:56.760 Indian philosophy. He has a main podcast stream that's the history of Western philosopy, 1657 02:08:56.760 --> 02:09:00.359 but then he has a secondary one that I think already did these three 1658 02:09:00.520 --> 02:09:03.680 Indian Philosophy now is doing the history of a Mechanic philosophy, and then it's 1659 02:09:03.680 --> 02:09:07.000 going to be the History of of Asian philosophy of East Asian TWENTIESE West. 1660 02:09:07.279 --> 02:09:11.000 And it's you know, a little twenty minute episodes on different subjects, but 1661 02:09:11.079 --> 02:09:15.680 they're very good ways just on a little bit about a lot of different things 1662 02:09:15.760 --> 02:09:18.319 and think about what we might want to read more about. UM. That's 1663 02:09:18.399 --> 02:09:22.920 in philosophy. My friend Nat Typeman has a podcast book Elucidations, which is 1664 02:09:22.920 --> 02:09:26.159 a really good philosophy podcast. UM, Like, I listened to a fair 1665 02:09:26.279 --> 02:09:31.159 number of that's really good. And then will interview people from widely different specializations, 1666 02:09:31.239 --> 02:09:37.000 different areas and get them talking in a way that makes what they're working 1667 02:09:37.039 --> 02:09:41.359 on accessible to all my audience. And I find that really interesting and valuable 1668 02:09:41.399 --> 02:09:43.600 exercide that I have my record. So those are some of the podcasts I 1669 02:09:43.720 --> 02:09:48.439 listened to. I listened to more podcasts than I read blogs. Um, 1670 02:09:48.039 --> 02:09:56.000 when I'm reading is mostly books or a newspaper. Sabrice says, for most 1671 02:09:56.079 --> 02:10:00.319 people, your identity is the less the least important thing about out you. 1672 02:10:01.119 --> 02:10:05.359 Training kids to make identity the most important thing in their life seems like a 1673 02:10:05.479 --> 02:10:09.760 path back to the Bronze Age. Well, I mean, I think if 1674 02:10:09.800 --> 02:10:13.720 you really think about what your identity is, it's crucially important to you. 1675 02:10:15.000 --> 02:10:18.439 But it's not being white or you know, half Jewish, half Italian by 1676 02:10:18.520 --> 02:10:22.880 descent, which I am, or or you know, middle class or something 1677 02:10:22.960 --> 02:10:24.960 like that. Your identity is that you're a human being with a mind, 1678 02:10:26.560 --> 02:10:30.840 and then a mind that focused itself on certain values and made your life about 1679 02:10:30.960 --> 02:10:33.520 certain things. That I has certain virtues and yeah, okay, this other 1680 02:10:33.600 --> 02:10:37.880 stuff is true of you, and it might be relevant in various ways, 1681 02:10:37.920 --> 02:10:41.239 but it's not the ceter thing. Um. There's a really nice piece on 1682 02:10:43.119 --> 02:10:48.479 identity and education and developing an identity by Matt Bateman on the web page of 1683 02:10:48.600 --> 02:10:54.479 Montessorium. Montessorium is a think tank associated with with Higher Round and Matt Batement's 1684 02:10:54.479 --> 02:11:00.399 a philosopher there and he and I were involved with a kind of the group 1685 02:11:00.479 --> 02:11:05.560 that was discussing through identity issues as they came up in education and one of 1686 02:11:05.600 --> 02:11:09.960 the albums of that with Matt writing this essay and one of the point he 1687 02:11:09.039 --> 02:11:13.479 makes it know, adentity is important. It's wrong to think of your identity 1688 02:11:13.920 --> 02:11:16.199 as about whether you're gainor's tread or black, or while you're old or young. 1689 02:11:16.920 --> 02:11:20.159 It's you know, those things have some role, but they're they're a 1690 02:11:20.199 --> 02:11:28.479 minors. Good HELLI let's see Gail says healthcare needs much attention. Thank you, 1691 02:11:28.560 --> 02:11:33.680 Greg, and you'on and then well end was Zach saying love the interview, 1692 02:11:33.159 --> 02:11:37.760 thanks for this, Thank you, Zach. All right, two plus 1693 02:11:37.840 --> 02:11:41.520 hours as usual. Um, there's a lot, a lot of lots of 1694 02:11:41.600 --> 02:11:46.439 questions, thank you. Oh one more thoughts on the new University of Austin. 1695 02:11:46.960 --> 02:11:50.720 Will you be working with them? Um? I mean I don't have 1696 02:11:50.840 --> 02:11:56.199 any relationship. I don't have any professional relationship with them as of now. 1697 02:11:56.079 --> 02:12:01.039 I have some I know people who do. UM thoughts on them. I 1698 02:12:01.520 --> 02:12:05.399 like the idea of forming a new university. I like the idems. You 1699 02:12:05.399 --> 02:12:11.319 don't like the president universities trying to do it better M and H in particular. 1700 02:12:11.439 --> 02:12:13.479 I think one of the things that you want to have when you form 1701 02:12:13.560 --> 02:12:20.319 a new university is a good attitude towards the diversity of ideas being you know, 1702 02:12:20.439 --> 02:12:24.560 shared on campus and being discussed. However, they don't think they have 1703 02:12:24.640 --> 02:12:28.159 too much more than that yet, and I think they need a lot more 1704 02:12:28.159 --> 02:12:33.039 than that. I think they need a view about what's gone wrong with the 1705 02:12:33.119 --> 02:12:37.119 other universities. They need a view about what is their value propositions that they're 1706 02:12:37.119 --> 02:12:41.159 offering people, how they're going to give them a superior education, and then 1707 02:12:41.479 --> 02:12:46.159 how they're going to organize their their company and their business, and they're hiring 1708 02:12:46.239 --> 02:12:50.319 practice and so for us to solve the problems and as other universities to to 1709 02:12:50.720 --> 02:12:54.399 be, you know, to not be to their life and maybe just rebooting, 1710 02:12:54.560 --> 02:12:58.640 you know, like you just start something that's exactly the University of Chicago, 1711 02:12:58.960 --> 02:13:01.279 but you started again to day. You know, maybe that would help 1712 02:13:01.319 --> 02:13:05.159 you. Just like when you reboot your computer or do a new load of 1713 02:13:05.199 --> 02:13:07.439 the operating system, you get out of a lot of problems. Maybe that 1714 02:13:07.520 --> 02:13:11.680 helps, and maybe they will do something like that. But it seems like 1715 02:13:11.720 --> 02:13:13.479 they're not they happy that there's going to be a new kind of university. 1716 02:13:13.560 --> 02:13:18.199 They don't seem to know much about what it is. When I had conversations 1717 02:13:18.279 --> 02:13:20.560 with the founder of it, it's happened that, you know, with him 1718 02:13:20.760 --> 02:13:22.960 a bunch of people at one point, and we were talking about them. 1719 02:13:22.960 --> 02:13:28.000 In the things they didn't have answers to surprised me. I would have thought 1720 02:13:28.039 --> 02:13:31.399 they would have been a more worked out view, for example, on tenure 1721 02:13:31.439 --> 02:13:33.800 and what's rather wrong with it and how you're going to try to solve the 1722 02:13:33.880 --> 02:13:41.239 problems it's meant to solve. And the other thing that bothered is when you 1723 02:13:41.359 --> 02:13:46.319 looked at who they initially had as advisors, was a really good list and 1724 02:13:46.399 --> 02:13:48.279 had a lot of people. I liked it at a Stephen Pinker was among 1725 02:13:48.359 --> 02:13:52.319 them. Lead the moue with among these people. Have a lot of respect 1726 02:13:52.439 --> 02:13:56.640 for them. But then when they made their first hires, I wasn't as 1727 02:13:56.680 --> 02:14:00.880 impressed with who they hired. And one of the first hires was I forget 1728 02:14:00.960 --> 02:14:03.840 her name, Brett Weinstein's wife. Yeah, was a biologist and the main 1729 02:14:03.960 --> 02:14:09.960 thing she was on about there was um something kind of blackish um to do 1730 02:14:09.079 --> 02:14:13.560 with the with the pandemic. I forget if it was UM that internected was 1731 02:14:13.640 --> 02:14:18.079 the wonder drug or something else, but something that that was kind of all 1732 02:14:18.199 --> 02:14:22.000 she was talking about in the news about UM. It didn't strike me as 1733 02:14:22.199 --> 02:14:26.439 a promising first hire in a science department. Whatever one thinks about the particulars 1734 02:14:26.479 --> 02:14:31.520 of the politics about about that drug, it wasn't UM. And it felt 1735 02:14:31.600 --> 02:14:37.159 like it was becoming a kind of UM refugee camp for the cancel, which 1736 02:14:37.600 --> 02:14:41.359 is not a recipe for being a good school. Even if there needs to 1737 02:14:41.359 --> 02:14:46.399 be refugee camp for the cancel, UM, that's not enough. And and 1738 02:14:46.640 --> 02:14:50.920 I think around that same time, Stephen Picker backed out the initiative, and 1739 02:14:50.119 --> 02:14:54.640 I think that that was sad that I think UM he was a kind of 1740 02:14:56.439 --> 02:15:01.319 good influence on it, so UM, and I think he might have been 1741 02:15:01.880 --> 02:15:05.119 just guessing, might have been uncomfortable with that higher I don't. I don't 1742 02:15:05.119 --> 02:15:09.319 know. So they're trying to do something very hard. I think it's good 1743 02:15:09.359 --> 02:15:13.399 that someone started new university. I'm rooting for them, but I've not been 1744 02:15:15.760 --> 02:15:18.960 as impressive i'd hope to be with the steps I've seemed so far. And 1745 02:15:18.520 --> 02:15:22.399 but hopefully they'll creek up in really good um or at least competitive with the 1746 02:15:22.479 --> 02:15:26.239 other university. And maybe if they don't, but they manage to Greek something 1747 02:15:26.279 --> 02:15:28.880 that at least, you know, as some students, it'll be an inspiration 1748 02:15:28.960 --> 02:15:31.800 to other people to try something else. Until we guess play really good? 1749 02:15:33.600 --> 02:15:37.039 All right. Finally, Kfax says, how much of a super chat donation 1750 02:15:37.199 --> 02:15:43.439 would it take to get Greg to shred or gently play something on the live 1751 02:15:43.520 --> 02:15:48.880 stream you're on. That's up to you. How much? How much to 1752 02:15:48.000 --> 02:15:50.680 be how happy to play? Do it? Play? Play a little bit 1753 02:15:50.760 --> 02:15:58.119 and we'll make that the exit music for the show. Can you hear this? 1754 02:15:58.600 --> 02:16:05.600 One's not? All right? Maybe loud enough? Can you hear it? 1755 02:16:05.319 --> 02:16:15.279 Don't play something is now? Really no? You'd have to put the 1756 02:16:15.439 --> 02:16:22.039 mic. Yeah, all right, but I don't think. Oh right, 1757 02:16:22.600 --> 02:16:28.760 pay up k Facts. I don't know fifty bucks. Come on, let's 1758 02:16:28.880 --> 02:16:35.239 let's make it to eight hundred bucks. Where's k Facts? He does that 1759 02:16:35.399 --> 02:16:46.760 and he disappears on us zoom is noise isolating out. I think we get 1760 02:16:46.799 --> 02:17:01.399 the volume up enough, we can do it. I'm all right, this 1761 02:17:01.600 --> 02:17:09.639 is a treat, guys. Yeah, yeah, might be ours there we 1762 02:17:09.719 --> 02:17:16.719 go, Kay, Facts just paid up and Hugh came in and all right, 1763 02:17:16.840 --> 02:17:20.680 so we've got a whole array of supporters. Now, thank you, 1764 02:17:20.799 --> 02:17:35.399 kay, facts can hear it at all? Nothing? Greg? Can you 1765 02:17:35.479 --> 02:17:39.600 hear me? Because we can hear you, Greg, Greg, Greg, 1766 02:17:39.639 --> 02:17:52.159 Greg, Greg, Greg Greg. He can't hear us, Greg. He's 1767 02:17:52.239 --> 02:17:58.079 jamming and he can't hear us. No, can hear they can hear anything 1768 02:17:58.120 --> 02:18:05.600 from the guitar. It's interesting. Is your mic directional? Can you direct 1769 02:18:05.719 --> 02:18:16.760 it? Can you put it right in front of the all right, nopem 1770 02:18:18.200 --> 02:18:22.239 gut tar channel. Any any advice on how we can get this to work. 1771 02:18:22.200 --> 02:18:39.760 That that I heard something there? Now one more try you guys can't 1772 02:18:39.799 --> 02:18:50.840 hear anything right now? All right, it's a zoom it's a zoom filter. 1773 02:18:50.000 --> 02:18:54.319 I think I think it's a problem with zoom. I think that if 1774 02:18:54.520 --> 02:19:00.680 they assume it's noise, I guess, and they filter it out. You 1775 02:19:00.799 --> 02:19:03.639 have to said, zoom sound to professional music. I don't know how to 1776 02:19:03.719 --> 02:19:18.719 do that. I'm looking. I'm looking at audio settings. Yeah, I 1777 02:19:18.760 --> 02:19:24.239 would go to instead of auto, I would I would get rid of auto 1778 02:19:24.120 --> 02:19:30.479 performance. Yeah, put like yeah, try that. I'm trying that. 1779 02:19:31.200 --> 02:20:11.319 I'm gonna fighter in the house and see here. Last I still can't hear 1780 02:20:11.360 --> 02:20:20.559 anything. It's weird hear that. No, no, you can't hear anything. 1781 02:20:22.559 --> 02:20:24.799 All right, well then for some reason we can't no matter what I 1782 02:20:24.879 --> 02:20:31.040 do, So I apologies, but um we tried. Guys. Sorry, 1783 02:20:31.879 --> 02:20:35.440 you'll have to come to ocon. Maybe maybe Greg will do performance better at 1784 02:20:35.479 --> 02:20:45.440 okon there you go, all right, Thanks Greg, uh, thanks to 1785 02:20:45.559 --> 02:20:48.120 all of you. Thanks with the super chat is. Thanks kay facts, 1786 02:20:48.559 --> 02:20:52.760 so you can fulfill your your wish. Um I guess I owe you some 1787 02:20:52.920 --> 02:21:01.440 free super chat answers um and um ok left out a guitarist. People were 1788 02:21:01.440 --> 02:21:05.559 asking favorite guitarists, so maybe in lieu of playing I'll just mentioned one or 1789 02:21:05.600 --> 02:21:15.000 two others. Yeah, I really um like periods of music when new things 1790 02:21:15.040 --> 02:21:18.040 are coming together that happened before. And one of the periods I like a 1791 02:21:18.159 --> 02:21:24.479 lot of music the period when sort of white kids in Chicago were getting into 1792 02:21:24.559 --> 02:21:28.520 the black blues music was being played in the clubs and they started to be 1793 02:21:28.680 --> 02:21:31.399 kind of integration and cross pollination. And one person to come out of that. 1794 02:21:31.479 --> 02:21:35.000 But I really like is Mike Bloomfield, the guitar player. Particularly he's 1795 02:21:35.000 --> 02:21:39.399 playing on the first two Butterfield Blues banned albums. So if you look at 1796 02:21:39.440 --> 02:21:41.399 the Pull Butterfield Louse band. The album is called the Pull Butterfield Close Band 1797 02:21:41.440 --> 02:21:46.040 on the album East West. I really like the guitar player, so if 1798 02:21:46.079 --> 02:21:48.559 you can't hear me, you could hear him means a lot better at the 1799 02:21:48.600 --> 02:21:54.440 same good Well, Thank you Greg, This is uh, this is a 1800 02:21:54.520 --> 02:22:01.959 real pleasure. And thank you guys for all the super check questions and for 1801 02:22:01.719 --> 02:22:05.760 being here. And I will be back sometime tomorrow. I don't know what 1802 02:22:05.879 --> 02:22:09.079 time. Tomorrow is a crazy day, but I will be doing a news 1803 02:22:09.200 --> 02:22:13.079 round up at some point tom on. Then over the weekend we'll have some 1804 02:22:13.280 --> 02:22:18.399 additional shows. Have a great night. It's late over here already. Have 1805 02:22:18.520 --> 02:22:22.000 a good night. Greg. I'll see you soon, I guess in a 1806 02:22:22.040 --> 02:22:28.559 couple of months. And I'll see you all of you guys tomorrow. Bye 1807 02:22:28.559 --> 02:22:31.760 everybody. Ye