WEBVTT

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All right, hello everybody, and
welcome to the Rojas Reports. I've got

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my guests waiting there in the green
room, so I'll bring Kevin on in

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just a minute. But I did
want to do a little bit of business

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for those of you who are watching. You know, I've been trying all

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kinds of different schemes and everything on
Patreon and YouTube, and so I do

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want to make sure and be more
regular about informing you guys of how this

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all works. So right now,
if you're watching on YouTube, you're watching

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live, and I'm going to be
opening those up to the public. Now.

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I was having that kind of behind
my paywall for my super high levels

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Patreon and YouTube level. But you
know, cause it's kind of a moving

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target, I'm working with the schedule
of the interviewee that I've just decided,

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you know, whenever I do something
live, I'll open it up for everybody

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to watch. And then after it's
live for a few days so people can

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kind of check it out, I'll
put it in the archives. And the

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archives how do you get to it? Then, well, you could be

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a subscriber on Patreon. There's two
levels where you can just get the audio

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stuff or get the video and everything, or you can join right here on

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YouTube. So there's a little joint
button. It's always hard to point.

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I get the mirror that way.
There's a little joint button. You can

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hit that and subscribe. If you
joined, then you can get the archives

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and watch the videos later on.
So do that right now while we're talking.

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In fact, probably in the chat
right now, we've got some of

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our members. Hey, We've got
all kinds of people, so that's how

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it works. But welcome so much
to the Rojas Report. We have a

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wonderful guest today and I'll bring them
on right now. Welcome Kevin Kanuth.

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Hello, thank you for loving me. Thank you, doctor Kevin Kanuuth,

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a Professor of Associate Professor of Astro
astro physicist at Sunny Albany. Did I

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stumble? I tripped over your title
there. That's great. It's more generally

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physics, but that's good. Yeah, thank you. So it's great.

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I'm really happy that you have gotten
involved with talking about, you know,

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the UAP topic. I don't know, are you uncomfortable? I think I

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hear you use the term UFO quite
a bit. Yeah, well, I

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guess I'm a bit older. I
mean, for me, Pluto is a

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planet and they're UFOs. So and
how do you feel addressing that issue the

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term UAP, because it does seem
kind of weird almost. It's just kind

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of always been kind of weird to
me. That and it's true that the

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scientific community, obviously the military has
picked up this term and they're using the

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term UAP. The UK government did
as opposed to UFOs. Now, if

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anybody asks you, what's your up, you're going to say it to UFO.

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Is there an advantage to that term? What do you think about that

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issue? Well? I don't.
At first I thought it was rather silly

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to come up with a new term, And but just watching how watching how

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readily it's been adopted and and how
comfortable people are using it, especially compared

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to UFO, I think that it's
I think that it's probably done what they

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intended. I think that it had
sidestepped some of the taboo associated with UFOs,

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so it's so in some in some
people's mind, I think that it's

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more that UFOs are all those old
flying saucers that people saw in the nineteen

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forties and fifties. That's what Roswell
was about. UAPs are what the Navy

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deals with right and and I think
that's what that seems to be how people's

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mindsets is right now. And I
think that in that sense, it's been

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successful in getting people to think about
these things and talk about them openly.

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M hm. Now we both interact
with this group called this the Scientific Coalition

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for UAP Research, and it used
to be UFO Research and we changed the

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name. And it is kind of
funny because I used to be opposed to

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changing to the UAP, the reason
being that it just means the same thing.

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And it was actually the Air Force
that came up with the term UFO.

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However, you know, I have
noticed and we kind of were forced

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to do that because really it was
just feedback, especially from scientists who were

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like, I don't feel comfortable with
UFO, I don't want nothing to do

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with UFOs, UAPs. I'll get
involved with something like that, but not,

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you know, that seems to be
the case. It's so weird.

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Well, it's been really nice that
you've been involved discussing UFOs and UAPs and

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every thing in between in the last
couple of months or years, I should

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say. And I've seen now three
of your lectures and I just think it's

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invaluable to have someone like you getting
involved with this. And one of the

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things that we did at the UFO
Congress, which you were at. I've

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got my UFO Congress hat here is
we had a panel with Diana Posolka and

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Tim Brigham, also people with their
doctoral degrees in some sort of science.

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They're more in the social sciences.
But it's not an easy thing. Like

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what prompted you to kind of take
a more active and in a way public

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role in all of this. That's
a good question. I've always been interested

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in these, you know, in
UFOs and way back to my teen years,

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you know, or even as a
as an you know, as an

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older kid watching in search of you
know, on TV and things like this.

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So I've always found them interesting and
wondered about what, you know,

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what is the situation. And it
was when I started in graduate school at

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the university or I'm sorry, Montana
State University in Bozeman, Montana. I

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started on my that's where I got
my master's in physics from. I started

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in graduate school there. It would
have been September of nineteen eighty eight,

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and it was within the first couple
of weeks that there was a cattle mutilation

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in the area where two cows were
killed and surgically whatever. Were pretty horrible

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things done to these cows, and
it was very strange. It was not

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it was not something you would expect
anybody to do. And and I was

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I had never heard of cattle mutilations
before I come from Wisconsin. Originally I've

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heard of cow tipping, but not
not cattle mutilations. Who's who would mutilate

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a cow? What a horrible thing. So I'm seeing that in the news.

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I was kind of confused by this
and worried. And there of course

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there were the two main hypotheses were
that there were aliens did it, or

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they were Satanists, right, because
it's there's so many Satanists running around mutilating

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cows. So none of that made
any sense to me. It just all

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seemed kind of ridiculous. And and
so when we when I went to the

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university the next day, we got
to talking about this in one of our

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graduates dident offices. In the kindnversation
kind of moved into the hallway and became

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very animated, you know, and
well, you know, the rancher saw

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some weird lights in the sky,
and so he thinks they were aliens,

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but then other people think they're Satanists
and and and I just remember thinking this

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is all nuts. And many of
the graduate students who were discussing this were

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all the people who had moved there
from, mostly from other parts of the

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country or from other countries. And
our general opinion was the real worry was

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what kind of crazy place have we
just moved to? Because we're going to

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have to live here for another three
to five years, right, to get

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our degrees. So and you know, so, if there's satan Is running

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around killing how's this is worrisome?
Right? And well, if there's aliens

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killing house, that's worrisome too,
or whatever the situation is. It's very

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odd and weird going on in Montana. Yeah, and so one of the

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professors came out of his office and
happened to see us. And I don't

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quite remember who it is. I
think I have an idea who it is.

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I'm not going to name names,
but he came down the hallway to

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find out what all the commotion was
and we told him, you know,

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what we were talking about, and
he said, y oh, yeah,

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that's very strange. You know it
happens from time to time, these cattle

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mutilations, and they never figure out
what causes them or who did it,

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which is odd. And we all
agreed. And then he said, but

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what's really strange? He said,
he said, I have some friends in

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the Air Force who are up at
Momstrom Air Force Base, and they have

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problems up at Momstrom with with UFOs
flying over the ICBM missile sites and shutting

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down the missiles. And this just
really stunned us. I mean, nobody

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there was what response do you give
to this? Right? Here's you know,

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we're new graduate students, you know, here's one of our new professors

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telling us that they have problems with
UFOs shutting down ICBM missiles. And and

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to be honest, when he walked
away, we left like crazy. I

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mean this and this kind of became
an inside joke. You know, anytime

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somebody said something weird, you know, somebody else would interject, yeah,

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but you know, what's really going
on is there some UFOs shutting down missiles

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up at Momster Air Force Base.
So I heard about this in nineteen eighty

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eight. This is nineteen eighty eight. Now, I don't know when Robert

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Hastings started being more public with his
research on UFOs shutting down nuclear weapons or

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appearing at NULE hanging out at nuclear
weapons sites. But I saw I guess

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it was his press conference that he
had in what was it twenty ten or

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something like this. So it's around
twenty ten that he had a press conference,

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didn't I didn't see it until a
few years later. Actually, I

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watched it on YouTube. I was
preparing for a course that I was teaching,

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an astrophysics course, and I had
some students. I was talking about

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astrobiology, and I had some students
who wanted to discuss the possibilities of their

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being, you know, intelligent aliens, that maybe we could communicate with them

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or they could travel to Earth.
And I so I was just poking around

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on the internet just to you know, find some mostly research papers and things

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on SETI and I happened to stumble
on the press conference on YouTube that Robert

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Hastings had and I was blown away, you know, I was like,

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whoa, whoa, wha, wait
a minute, he's talking. These guys

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are talking about events that happened.
I think Robert Solis's you know, encounter

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happened something like nineteen sixty five,
and and here I am seeing this press

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conference that was that you know,
happened in twenty ten, and I was

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and all I could think was,
like I knew about this in nineteen eighty

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eight, you know how so you
know, that's thirty years earlier. I

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hadn't heard about this thirty years before
this press conference, and I and I

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just couldn't shake the feeling that this
can't be nonsense. This has to be

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real. There's no way you're going
to have professionals, you know, several

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generations of professionals working at a nuclear
weapons site who make these claims that that's

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just not going to happen. And
I thought, I, you know,

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how wrong can they be. They're
not going to be that wrong. We

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wouldn't be employing them to do something
that important if they were that wrong.

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And so so that really impacted me, and that I think I probably saw

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saw the press conference probably around twenty
fourteen or so, and then it wasn't

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you know, it's you know,
and then of course luel Azando comes out

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with this is the a type revelation, you know, was what twenty seventeen,

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December sixteenth, twenty seventeen, So
it was only just a couple of

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years later that that that had happened, and then I was like, whoa

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wait a minute, this is why. And all I could ask myself is

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why have we been ignoring this for
fifty years? You know, these these

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sightings have been happening with the I
mean, these encounters been happening with Air

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Force and with others, you know, at least for fifty years, and

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we're all just pretending it's not real. That's that's that's madness, That's that's

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insane. You know. I thought
somebody should be looking into this. Somebody

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should be looking into it seriously.
This shouldn't be kept secret because when it's

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secret, it's compartmentalized. Not everybody
knows about it. This is how you

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know, this is how you run
into problems. This should be studied openly.

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So and so, just coincidentally,
I had around that time, I

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had given a talk to our department
on UFOs and and probably the announcement just

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that title of my talk and need
it you know, it was on the

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internet to some degree, and I
got a call from our media department in

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late May, I believe it was
of twenty seventeen, and somebody from an

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editor from the online journal The Conversation
wanted to find a physicist who would write

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an article about UFOs for World UFO
Day and and they said, well,

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we'd like them to write an article
about why people believe in UFOs even though

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they're not we know they're not real. And this is what I was told.

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And I thought, well, I'll
have to think about this, you

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know, for a little bit,
and and I kind of molded over,

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you know, slept on it.
And the next day I thought, well,

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this is really silly. I couldn't
possibly write an article about an article

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exactly like that because we don't know
that they're not real. We don't we

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don't know this, and they ought
to be studied, really, And so

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I called our media person. I
said, yeah, please contact them.

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I'd be willing to write a paper, a short article on why scientists ought

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to study you have pos. I
would be willing to do that. And

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the editor contacted me right away and
was very excited. They said, oh,

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we never thought we'd fight a physicist
who would who would actually support these

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things. So so when we asked
to find a physicist, we wanted a

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physicist, you know, we wanted
you know, a professional scientists to we

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kind of, you know, to
make this easier for them, We thought

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to invite them to discuss why why
people believe in them even though they're not

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real, But we're more than happy
to hear why scientists should study them.

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So I wrote, I wrote that
article for the Conversation, and and I

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labored over it for the better part
of a week and and had you know,

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my wife helped me edited. She
helped greatly, and some of my

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colleagues read it over and helped as
well. And I worked very hard to

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make sure that, you know,
I stuck to the facts, and you

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know, kept clear that we don't
know what these things are. We are

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agnostic as to know their their nature, and and just really tried to drive

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home the point that scientists study things. This is that's our job. We

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study things, and we should we
should be studying these things. And so

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I, I guess I felt by
this time, I felt very passionate about

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this, you know, realizing that
the Navy, you know, the Navy's

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been having problems, you know,
they've been having problems at nuclear weapons sites

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for decades, and nobody knows anything
about this. That's really that's insane,

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it's insane. And potentially dangerous.
We don't know what the situation is and

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we need to know. And then
of course the science the scientist and me

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is curious. I want to know. I want to know what these things

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are. You know, what are
what are they? They? You know

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from from the witness sightings they do
many of them do appear to be structured

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craft with really incredible flight characteristics and
capabilities, and so how do you do

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something like that? So there are
there's a potential for a huge discovery here

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as well, and so as a
scientists you never walk away from the potential

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for a big discovery. You hit
yourself forever for that. So so I

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thought it was I felt it was
worth the risk. And one of the

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done that I think I can't really
import many is that you've kind of what

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sort of science can be done in
this field, because a lot of people

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have asked, well, is there
even any science that could be done?

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Uh? But you have and we'll
get into that, but I I kind

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of want to go in order.
And what's kind of funny is the order

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of lectures I've seen are kind of
opposite of kind of a good narrative,

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I think, because the last lecture
you did is why doesn't science look into

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this stuff? Which was great you
did that at the UFO Congress, and

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I want to talk about some of
the points you made there, and I

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think the first important point is about
the circular logic that kind of causes this

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catch twenty two situation. Yeah,
there's a good bit of circular logic that's

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been applied here, which is frustrating
to think about as a scientist. Scientists

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don't study UFOs because they're not scientific. Why aren't UFOs scientific? They're not

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scientific because scientists don't study them.
That's really all it comes down to.

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It's really that it's a pretty tight
circle set that bit of logic. But

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that's really what going on. You
know, no scientists look back and say,

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nobody has studied this, so it's
not scientific, and so I'm not

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going to study it. And it's
really not It's really pretty ridiculous. And

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there are many examples of you know, scientific theories that are now well accepted

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that were treated this way initially.
The theory of meteorites, you know,

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rocks falling from the sky was one
of them. And you can imagine why

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people claiming that rocks can fall from
the sky why people would look at them

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and say, you were crazy.
There's no way rocks are going to fall

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from the sky and you so you
can see why that would be a hard

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theory to accept, and it really
wasn't accepted until you had a meteorite event

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that happened over a small town I
believe it was somewhere in Europe, I

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believe, I believe France perhaps,
where the meteorite broken to several pieces and

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actually hit These pieces hit in different
parts of the town simultaneously, and each

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one of them started a fire,
you know, So the townspeople have to

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put out these fires, and then
they discover this strange rock here, and

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there were multiple rocks found, each
one found associated with a fire. So

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the geologists then looked at them and
said, well, these aren't from this

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area. They're clearly not from the
area. So that it wasn't until you

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had an event where many people saw
these things come in maybe think people saw

250
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them start fire. As many people
saw the rocks and there were multiple rocks,

251
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it was just you couldn't deny it
anymore. And so so then scientists

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look at them and study them,
and we learn about meteorites, and that's

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really all there is to it.
That's it. And that's another good point

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because the other and this kind of
and this will definitely be a thing because

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I want to talk about kind of
the state of affairs right now and how

256
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science can and should play a role. But you also talked about the other

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aspect is then when you want to
start to study a phenomena, you have

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to prove that there even is a
phenomena there. When you, like you

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just mentioned when the rocks started falling
and stuff caught on fire, they say,

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oh, there is a phenomena here
to study. However, with a

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lot of other stuff, we just
have anecdotal information and I like you talked

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about your your buddy Marco calls it
anec data, but that really isn't scientific

263
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data. So how do you justify
something as real? And really what what

264
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I think you made this point is
that the Navy's kind of done that now

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they've talked about UFOs being real.
Yeah, that that's been the big That

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was the big news. The big
news really wasn't those videos. Those videos

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aren't that spectacular. They the pilot's
description of the behavior of these objects are

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do not at all. That's not
what's shown on the videos that we got

269
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to see, and which is disappointing. It looks like we were given the

270
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most boring parts of the video.
But that's that's exactly right. One of

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the differences that we one of the
features that we use to decide whether something

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is a science or a pseudoscience.
In pseudoscience, you're the focus is usually

273
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on trying to prove that something exists, that something is real. And the

274
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problem with something new like studying UFOs
is that the first thing you do need

275
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to do is to prove that there
is a phenomena here to study, and

276
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so a lot of your activity looks
like pseudoscience. Now I want to be

277
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careful here because with UFOs there is
a lot of pseudoscience going on, right,

278
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So there is a lot of pseudoscience
there, and so that makes it

279
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even harder because it's hard for a
scientist to come in and do science,

280
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and especially when the first steps are
to prove that there is a phenomenon,

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because the scientists will look very much
like everybody else, and that makes it

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difficult. Now, the Navy has
basically done this for us, which is

283
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excellent they and they've done so out
of necessity. They have a you know,

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from my understanding, they have a
serious problem on their hands. You

285
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can't have and I believe it was
twenty fifteen, they had near daily encounters

286
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with these things and we can't afford
that. And some of these were happening

287
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in the Persian Gulf while they were
going on. You know, on missions

288
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into Syria, you've got to fly
past UFOs first and then you enter Syria

289
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and complete your mission and come back. But you have to be on your

290
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game in Syria. But your pilots
aren't going to be on their game if

291
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there you've got you know, objects
flying at the airplanes that thousands of miles

292
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an hour and doing barrel rolls around
the cockpit. There's you know, that's

293
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that's unreasonable. So the Navy had
a real problem that it needed to solve,

294
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and we've unfortunately, from you know, my perspective, which you know,

295
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I'm not privy to most of the
information that the government has. I'm

296
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just I'm a I'm a scientist of
public scientists, so but my perception is

297
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that these things have gone ignored for
fifty years, and they've been ignored until

298
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there was a serious problem. And
this serious problem seems to be the problem

299
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that the Navy is encountered with their
pilots. And now I would have imagined

300
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that the nuclear weapon site incursions would
have been a serious problem. These things

301
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kind of worry me because you you
know, you can have a craft fly

302
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over an ICBM missile and shine lights
down into it and then fly away and

303
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nobody does anything. I don't I
don't know if you want that information about

304
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public because it says to me that
anybody can fly drone over one of these

305
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ICBM missile sites and take photographs and
shine lights on and nobody's gonna do anything

306
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because they're gonna say, oh,
it's just one of those uphones again,

307
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and we don't believe in that.
So what I mean, that's really what

308
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it looks like, and it's a
little worrisome. I would have hoped that

309
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our you know, our defense would
have been a little smarter in this respect,

310
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and perhaps and and of course I
don't know what they do do and

311
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I don't know what they know and
don't know, so it's I can't really

312
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present a an objective you know,
picture here, but but you know,

313
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from somebody from the outside, that's
kind of what it looks like. And

314
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I think the different here a lot
of people are asking I should say,

315
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welcome everybody. We've got Rodrigo and
Mark and Cartola and Will and Sonya and

316
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the Unidentified Celebrity show and people all
over. We've got Canada and UK,

317
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Australia, So welcome everybody. And
some of them are mentioning some of the

318
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people who have done some science in
the past, but these are kind of

319
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one off individuals who have taken it
upon themselves, like a Jacques Vallet or

320
00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:33.640
doctor Eric Davis. People are mentioning
some of these people, and sure they

321
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have taken it upon themselves to do
this, but what's different now is that,

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to your point, it's kind of
been officially. It's been made official

323
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that UFOs at least exist. It
is a phenomena. Even if you're a

324
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scientist who doesn't believe it's anything abnormal, it's still, you know, then

325
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incumbent upon you as a scientist to
demonstrate that, to say, Navy's got

326
00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:03.039
this all wrong, This isn't so
weird. Here's the science why that's the

327
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case. So at least now it's
legit. I guess, yeah, the

328
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phenomenon exists. This is something that
some people have to deal with and they

329
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would like to know what it is. And now it's a simple matter of

330
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figuring out what these what some of
these things are. And of course you

331
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have to be careful because not all
UFOs are going, you know, even

332
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if some of them are alien spacecraft, they're not all alien spacecrafts. Some

333
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of them are our misidentifications. In
fact, the vast majority are misidentifications.

334
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I don't believe that the navys misidentifying
birds, you know, flying at their

335
00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:45.200
planes at thousands of miles an hour. I don't think that that's the case,

336
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but clearly, which is why what
makes the Navy much more believable.

337
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But it is true that people do
misidentify planets and they think they're UFO or

338
00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:03.160
or birds. I've actually seen photographs. I'm a birdwatcher. I've been a

339
00:28:03.160 --> 00:28:07.079
bird watching since I was five years
old, so I'm very familiar with birds,

340
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and and there was a library of
you of compelling UFO photos that I

341
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had had come across, and in
going through those, I found three photographs

342
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of birds. So it was to
me kind of surprising, but but that's

343
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how it is, and a lot
of these things are ar mis misidentifications.

344
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I have yet to see swamp gas. I've never in my life seen swamp

345
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gas hovering about doing whatever it supposedly
does. Yeah, so there there gets

346
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to be a point where the the
skeptics explanations are far more ridiculous than you

347
00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:56.200
know, the other you know,
the other possibilities. So it's it.

348
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But some of these things do appear
to be structured craft, and those are

349
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the ones, those are the cases
I'm interested in. And I think it

350
00:29:06.920 --> 00:29:11.519
was really interesting too when you brought
up earth lights this whole you know,

351
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you knew that the earthquake lights.
Yes, yeah, that the guy who's

352
00:29:15.400 --> 00:29:18.920
talking about the earthquake lights and doing
that research, which was another kind of

353
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something that people didn't believe existed until
later on. Finally the evidence came that

354
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you know, there were observations,
which is really amazing. Yeah, which

355
00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:36.400
is interesting because some of these things
are I mean even of course the UFO

356
00:29:36.440 --> 00:29:37.920
community was like, well, there, it's not even proven. There are

357
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no such thing as earthquake lights.
Now we know there are. Ball lightning

358
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is another example. Ball lightning is
not well understood in the physics community and

359
00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:53.680
it's and it is taboo to study
ball lightning because it's such a weird thing

360
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that not everybody believes is real.
So so there are you know, some

361
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of the explanations that people have put
forward, you know, as you know,

362
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you know that, oh, that
was probably just ball lightning. Well,

363
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ball lightning is not really a thing
either. I feel that way when

364
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people say, oh, that was
it's probably just a mass hallucination. Well,

365
00:30:17.960 --> 00:30:22.079
yeah, there's no such thing as
a mass hallucination either. So this

366
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is where it gets great there.
Then you're promoting psychic phenomena because there'd have

367
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to be some sort of psychic connection
these people would have, so exactly.

368
00:30:32.039 --> 00:30:37.279
Yeah, yeah, that's it gets
to be very interesting when you look at,

369
00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:41.960
you know, the wide variety of
cases and possible explanations. And one

370
00:30:42.039 --> 00:30:47.039
of the issues is, I mean, and it's just so important, and

371
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we'll get back to why what the
Navy did was so important and how that

372
00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:55.640
changes things, but prior to that, like we're talking about, to prove

373
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something really is a phenomena, you
have to rely on a lot of anecdotal

374
00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:06.440
information or which, like you made
the point, isn't really scientific data,

375
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and which I think is important for
people to understand. Also, Yeah,

376
00:31:11.799 --> 00:31:22.279
that that is important to understand the
difficulty is that, unfortunately in most cases,

377
00:31:22.359 --> 00:31:26.559
that's all you have to go on. And so the best you can

378
00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:32.000
do is to, you know,
look at an anecdotal report and of what

379
00:31:32.119 --> 00:31:34.680
somebody says they saw or says they
experienced, and try to make sense of

380
00:31:34.720 --> 00:31:37.799
it. I mean, it's a
reasonable thing to do to try to make

381
00:31:37.839 --> 00:31:41.519
sense of it, you know.
And but you have to keep in mind

382
00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:48.680
that people make mistakes and and and
there are fabrications and hoaxes and things like

383
00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:53.920
this too. So it's it's very
challenging. But I like to in some

384
00:31:53.960 --> 00:31:59.599
of the more prominent cases, I've
often asked myself, you know, especially

385
00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:02.799
when there's professionals involved, like pilots, where there's a real consequence for them

386
00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:07.640
being you know, wrong, or
or even reporting these things. You know,

387
00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:12.400
the question I asked myself is how
wrong could they be? You know,

388
00:32:12.440 --> 00:32:15.480
how wrong can I expect that they're
going could be? You know,

389
00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:19.799
is you know, so even with
the UA, you know, the UAP

390
00:32:21.440 --> 00:32:25.720
footage from the two thousand and four
Nimitz case, I did presumably we will

391
00:32:25.720 --> 00:32:30.160
talk about this a bit, but
I did some work to estimate their the

392
00:32:30.200 --> 00:32:36.559
acceleration in the end of that video, and to do that I had to

393
00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:42.519
know the size of the object,
and of course there we don't have data

394
00:32:42.559 --> 00:32:45.799
on the size of the object.
We have anecdotal data from the pilots,

395
00:32:46.920 --> 00:32:52.160
several pilots, I think up to
six pilots who have seen these things.

396
00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:57.119
And then that one event, you
know, in that day, who described

397
00:32:57.160 --> 00:33:01.039
them as being about the size of
an eighteen about forty to fifty feet in

398
00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:08.240
length, and these tic tac shaped
objects, and so I use that number,

399
00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:13.519
you know, forty fifty feet.
Now, the first question you ask

400
00:33:13.559 --> 00:33:16.440
yourself as a scientist, when you
know I'm done with the analysis, and

401
00:33:17.480 --> 00:33:21.359
you know, and when I did
the analysis with those numbers, I found

402
00:33:21.440 --> 00:33:24.240
that at the end of the video, when the when the computer loses lock

403
00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:31.599
and the object flies off off to
the left, that is that I estimated

404
00:33:31.640 --> 00:33:37.079
that acceleration to be about eighty G's
about eighty times the acceleration of gravity,

405
00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:40.759
which is really unreasonable. It's still
not the highest that's been observed, but

406
00:33:42.359 --> 00:33:45.559
in fact it's on the low end
of some of the actual data we have

407
00:33:45.759 --> 00:33:52.799
or from either radar data or or
from anecdotes. But the first question I

408
00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:57.359
asked myself then as well, that
number depends on the size of the tik

409
00:33:57.400 --> 00:34:01.519
tak objects, right, So,
and and of course you think, well,

410
00:34:01.799 --> 00:34:06.039
how wrong could the pilots be.
What if it wasn't forty feet long

411
00:34:06.079 --> 00:34:09.239
and it was only thirty feet long, Well, then it's accelerating way it's

412
00:34:09.280 --> 00:34:15.800
sixty g, which is still unreasonable. You know, at what point does

413
00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:22.199
it become a more reasonable acceleration?
Well down when you get it down to

414
00:34:22.239 --> 00:34:25.119
around eight g. Maybe you might
be able to imagine somebody pulling off something

415
00:34:25.159 --> 00:34:30.199
with a craft or a drone at
eight g. But then the object would

416
00:34:30.199 --> 00:34:32.360
have had to be four feet long
and only you know, one hundred feet

417
00:34:32.360 --> 00:34:37.000
in front of the plane, which
wasn't the case. The pilot's not going

418
00:34:37.079 --> 00:34:39.400
to be that wrong, You're not, I use not off by a factor

419
00:34:39.400 --> 00:34:44.440
of ten on the size of the
craft, the size of the tech tac.

420
00:34:44.559 --> 00:34:50.119
So I think that the you know, using a forty foot length is

421
00:34:50.159 --> 00:34:53.360
a reasonable thing to do. And
to put that in perspective, I think

422
00:34:53.400 --> 00:34:57.719
you made the point that some of
our newer aircraft, you know, fighter

423
00:34:58.440 --> 00:35:01.920
jets, thirteen g, they'll fall
apart. Oh yeah, you can't.

424
00:35:02.039 --> 00:35:06.800
Most of our fighter jets, you
can't accelerate more than thirteen G's of acceleration

425
00:35:06.840 --> 00:35:13.920
the wing, the wings will rip
off. Missiles missiles can't maneuver at accelerations

426
00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:19.199
beyond thirty G. They can,
I think they're frames of Some missiles can

427
00:35:19.239 --> 00:35:24.000
withstand about sixty g's of acceleration,
but they can't maneuver and under those conditions.

428
00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:30.480
So so the fact that you have
a video where this thing accelerated at

429
00:35:30.519 --> 00:35:36.519
EIGHTYG is really significant. Now now
I ask myself, I think, why,

430
00:35:36.639 --> 00:35:42.199
well, why did we Why did
the Navy release that video and not

431
00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:45.800
one of the more exciting ones where
like the pilots, you know, Fravor

432
00:35:45.880 --> 00:35:49.280
describe these things as bouncing around like
a pink pong ball inside of a jar.

433
00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:52.679
I would love to see a video
of that that's not been released.

434
00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:59.840
Nothing like that's been released. And
I suspect that the you know, the

435
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:04.440
one thousand and four and Imitz footage
that was released appears to be quite boring.

436
00:36:04.559 --> 00:36:06.920
I mean, the thing just sits
there in front of the plane for

437
00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:08.760
most of it. In the plane
zooms, and you know, they change

438
00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:14.199
the magnification a few times and it
moves around then and then it flies off

439
00:36:14.239 --> 00:36:15.880
the screen. It loses the lock
and flies off the screen. And when

440
00:36:15.880 --> 00:36:21.000
it flies off the screen. That
Visually, looking at that as a movie,

441
00:36:21.079 --> 00:36:24.280
it's not that impressive. It's not
until you do the numbers and you

442
00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:30.400
think that, well the computer lost
missile lock. You know that's not easily

443
00:36:30.440 --> 00:36:32.679
done. These things are made to
track missiles, and missiles can accelerate very

444
00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:37.880
fast. So so clearly this was
a high acceleration. But I think it's

445
00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:42.320
I think we lucked out. I
think that, you know, when they

446
00:36:42.440 --> 00:36:46.519
chose to release that video, that
people reviewed the video maybe didn't do the

447
00:36:46.599 --> 00:36:52.360
calculations to figure out what that acceleration
was. And I believe that if I'm

448
00:36:52.400 --> 00:36:55.840
remember right, some of the metadata
was missing. I think there was metadata

449
00:36:55.880 --> 00:37:00.280
to distance to object and that was
actually missing from the videos. So so

450
00:37:01.559 --> 00:37:06.840
unfortunately we had estimates. Fortunately we
had estimates from the pilots how big this

451
00:37:06.920 --> 00:37:09.840
thing was, so that we could
get that acceleration. Mm hmm. Some

452
00:37:09.880 --> 00:37:14.280
people were saying, you know,
kind of criticizing because I think you posted

453
00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:21.440
that paper, I think with Peter
Robert Powell and Peter Reality at CU and

454
00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:27.039
you posted in your journal Entropy,
and they were questioning, well, how

455
00:37:27.039 --> 00:37:30.519
could you how could you call this
like a scientific paper if it's mostly based

456
00:37:30.519 --> 00:37:35.880
off of anecdotal information, but I
guess it's more of an analysis though,

457
00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:40.320
and you have to take into consideration
in this part. You know, it

458
00:37:40.400 --> 00:37:47.440
is anecdotal information, but it's from
a kind of in legal terms, it

459
00:37:47.440 --> 00:37:52.519
would be like an expert witness.
Yeah, yeah, I think that's fair.

460
00:37:53.440 --> 00:37:58.000
The Yeah. So to be clear, and this is a good place

461
00:37:58.039 --> 00:38:00.119
to be clear about this, we
did. We published it in the journal

462
00:38:00.239 --> 00:38:12.920
Entropy. The I presented this at
the MACCENT twenty nineteen meeting at the Institute

463
00:38:12.920 --> 00:38:19.440
for Plasma Physics in Garishing, Germany. And so that conference was organized by

464
00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:27.280
the people at the monks Plunk Institute, and they were now they had already

465
00:38:27.800 --> 00:38:30.920
gone to that conference for twenty years, so I'm familiar with all of these

466
00:38:30.920 --> 00:38:36.800
people, and they had an agreement
that year that the proceedings for the conference

467
00:38:36.800 --> 00:38:40.159
where what was going to be published
by the journal Entropy. The topics are

468
00:38:40.199 --> 00:38:44.199
the same type of topics, so
that it was a reasonable thing to do.

469
00:38:44.920 --> 00:38:49.800
Now, So I wrote up the
proceedings paper with Peter and Robert,

470
00:38:50.679 --> 00:39:00.280
and it then went for review was
reviewed by several people, with the with

471
00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:05.400
the conference organizers as the guest editors. So the conference organizers made the decision

472
00:39:05.519 --> 00:39:09.480
to have the paper published based on
the reviews that they received. So even

473
00:39:09.519 --> 00:39:14.960
though you know there's been some notes, you know, some things written,

474
00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:17.800
well, he get it published in
the journal where he's editor in chief,

475
00:39:17.960 --> 00:39:23.920
so that it's a little fuzzy,
But what really happened is it was you

476
00:39:23.960 --> 00:39:27.719
know, yes, I am the
editor in chief, but the guest editors

477
00:39:27.719 --> 00:39:30.039
are in charge of their special issue, and that's that's where it got published.

478
00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:37.719
So why did I publish there and
not somewhere else? Basically I used,

479
00:39:38.199 --> 00:39:43.400
you know, some of the data
analysis techniques that we talk about at

480
00:39:43.400 --> 00:39:47.360
that conference to analyze that video,
and so I saw that as an opening

481
00:39:47.559 --> 00:39:53.880
for this is my chance to get
to talk about the UFOs or UAPs to

482
00:39:54.199 --> 00:40:00.639
fellow scientists where I'm actually using the
data analysis techniques that we're all familiar with

483
00:40:01.039 --> 00:40:05.599
to analyze these videos from the from
the US Navy, and I saw that

484
00:40:05.639 --> 00:40:10.480
as an opportunity. But because I've
been involved with that community for a long

485
00:40:10.519 --> 00:40:14.000
time, you know, I'm the
editor in chief of that journal, so

486
00:40:14.679 --> 00:40:17.800
you know, so skeptics very you
know, readily pointed out, wow,

487
00:40:17.880 --> 00:40:21.199
you got it published in his own
journal, and blah, blah blah.

488
00:40:21.239 --> 00:40:25.639
But but the paper was was was
reviewed by others and and some of the

489
00:40:25.679 --> 00:40:30.039
reviewers had very good comments and that
we took into account and editing the paper.

490
00:40:30.679 --> 00:40:35.880
Yeah, how did your colleagues take
that? I mean, what did

491
00:40:37.880 --> 00:40:40.719
you're laughing? So some of it
must have been No, it's interesting.

492
00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:45.360
I think that you know, of
course people are skeptical, you know,

493
00:40:45.480 --> 00:40:49.960
and and of course scientists are going
to be skeptical and they should be and

494
00:40:49.960 --> 00:40:53.519
that's reasonable. I think I was. I was pleased. I did a

495
00:40:53.599 --> 00:40:58.400
very care what I felt to be
a careful job in the analysis and my

496
00:40:58.519 --> 00:41:06.079
presentation, and most of my colleagues
were very supportive. They said, you

497
00:41:06.119 --> 00:41:09.679
know that. I think their eyes
were kind of opened and thought, wow

498
00:41:09.800 --> 00:41:15.840
that this is from the US Navy
and this is really interesting, and yeah,

499
00:41:15.880 --> 00:41:19.559
you're right, that has to be
about an ADG acceleration, and ah,

500
00:41:19.719 --> 00:41:22.559
well what is this all about?
What is what's really going on here?

501
00:41:22.559 --> 00:41:27.519
And I think that their curiosity was
peaud which was exactly what needs needed

502
00:41:27.519 --> 00:41:34.199
to happen. I did have one
one colleague he's been a friend for years

503
00:41:34.239 --> 00:41:40.480
and still is and he but he's
very emotional, and he he stood up

504
00:41:40.480 --> 00:41:44.440
and he says, Oh, I
can't believe you're involved with this nonsense.

505
00:41:44.679 --> 00:41:47.480
He said, he said, he
said you could, you could show me

506
00:41:47.519 --> 00:41:52.920
a UFO and give me a tour, and I still wouldn't believe it.

507
00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:57.000
And it's such a weird thing to
say, which kind of brings me to

508
00:41:57.039 --> 00:41:59.880
the next time. Well, he
kind of helped my case there, I

509
00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:01.800
you know, and I you know, because he said that, and some

510
00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:05.559
of my colleagues works with him,
because he was like, oh, you

511
00:42:05.599 --> 00:42:07.800
know, this was a good talk, and that was good work. You

512
00:42:07.800 --> 00:42:09.920
should, you know, sit down
and be quiet. But you know,

513
00:42:09.960 --> 00:42:13.800
but I was able to plan this, I said. But this is the

514
00:42:13.840 --> 00:42:19.840
problem with with extreme skepticism. Extreme
skepticism is its own religion. You you

515
00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:22.840
aren't going to believe it no matter
what the data is. So and and

516
00:42:22.880 --> 00:42:29.960
that's really the problem. And so
so his statement, you know, I,

517
00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:32.360
you know, I it couldn't have
been better, you know it.

518
00:42:32.679 --> 00:42:37.039
You know, I you know,
if I was scheming, I you know,

519
00:42:37.079 --> 00:42:39.280
I could have paid him a few
bucks to say something like that,

520
00:42:39.360 --> 00:42:43.199
so to make the point. But
no, it was actually it was actually

521
00:42:43.280 --> 00:42:46.360
him. He said that and he
believed it. And that's fine. But

522
00:42:46.360 --> 00:42:51.800
but oh but I was going to
say, but there, you know,

523
00:42:51.880 --> 00:42:54.400
but I do have other close colleagues, some of them not who weren't at

524
00:42:54.440 --> 00:42:59.760
that meeting, who have seen,
you know, read by my paper and

525
00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:02.199
and looked, you know, saw
the talk because it was recorded, and

526
00:43:04.320 --> 00:43:08.639
you know, and who very strongly
believe that these things are artifacts. One

527
00:43:08.639 --> 00:43:13.199
of my one of them is a
close colleague and close friend of mine at

528
00:43:13.320 --> 00:43:15.960
NASA. He's still at NASA,
ames he's been there for far longer than

529
00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:21.599
I had been there. I was
there for for four years, and you

530
00:43:21.599 --> 00:43:27.320
know, and he really believes that
these things are artifacts. And and that's

531
00:43:27.320 --> 00:43:30.199
hard to argue. I mean,
I have to, you know, I

532
00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:35.719
am going to have to you have
to think very carefully about how what kind

533
00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:39.360
of proof do I need to convince
him that this is not an artifact,

534
00:43:39.360 --> 00:43:43.360
that this is actually a structured craft. What's going to be required? And

535
00:43:43.400 --> 00:43:49.480
I think, you know, in
some sense that I'm I'm lucky to have

536
00:43:49.519 --> 00:43:52.559
a friend like this because I can, you know, I felt I could

537
00:43:52.599 --> 00:43:57.440
bounce bounce these ideas off of him
and send him my papers or my talks

538
00:43:57.480 --> 00:44:00.159
to have him comment on them,
so I know what skeptics are going to

539
00:44:00.199 --> 00:44:04.880
say, or think or a skeptical
scientist is going to say or think.

540
00:44:05.880 --> 00:44:08.679
But he actually didn't want to have
the conversation. He said, I've argued,

541
00:44:08.920 --> 00:44:12.599
you know, for years. I
think he's friends with Jacques Vallet and

542
00:44:12.719 --> 00:44:16.719
so because they're both in Silicon Valley, right, And and he says,

543
00:44:16.760 --> 00:44:20.400
I've had these arguments for years.
I don't want to have them anymore,

544
00:44:20.480 --> 00:44:23.519
so I you know, so it's
too bad. It's unfortunately in this case.

545
00:44:24.079 --> 00:44:28.719
I mean, we don't know much
about the equipment that was used because

546
00:44:28.719 --> 00:44:36.719
it's classified. However, there certainly
have been plenty of or I know of

547
00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:39.880
clear experts who've talked about you know, you just don't see that sort of

548
00:44:39.960 --> 00:44:45.039
artifact, especially in this start of
high end equipment, cutting ends equipment not

549
00:44:45.199 --> 00:44:49.000
like that. Those are some pretty
big, blatant and you don't and you

550
00:44:49.039 --> 00:44:52.960
don't expect to have an artifact that
the pilot can also see and follow with

551
00:44:53.079 --> 00:45:00.960
his plane and that is being tracked
by radar. You don't. It's not

552
00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:04.599
a single artifact. There's something,
you know, there could be something more

553
00:45:04.639 --> 00:45:10.800
complicated going on. I think one
of the more interesting explanations technological explanations that

554
00:45:13.079 --> 00:45:19.199
one of the reviewers to my paper
actually mentioned he claimed that what if what

555
00:45:19.239 --> 00:45:23.920
if you had somebody shining lasers up
and intersecting lasers, so you're basically ionizing

556
00:45:23.920 --> 00:45:29.119
a patch of air, and then
you can basically move the lasers very fast,

557
00:45:29.159 --> 00:45:34.039
and basically this ionized patch of air
will move, and this ionized air

558
00:45:34.079 --> 00:45:37.159
will be hot, so it'll show
up on an infrared video. You would

559
00:45:37.159 --> 00:45:39.800
see it on your fleear camera.
It would be giving off slights, so

560
00:45:39.880 --> 00:45:45.280
the pilot would see it, and
ionized air will reflect radio waves, so

561
00:45:45.440 --> 00:45:50.000
radar would pick it up. And
I thought that was an excellent hypothesis.

562
00:45:50.559 --> 00:45:54.639
The problem is that there were the
Navy is in control of that territory.

563
00:45:54.679 --> 00:46:00.760
They know there were no other ships
in the in the area. The objects,

564
00:46:00.800 --> 00:46:05.599
the tic tact objects interacted with the
planes, So if somebody is playing

565
00:46:05.639 --> 00:46:08.280
around with laser beams, they're going
to have to be monitoring where the planes

566
00:46:08.320 --> 00:46:12.480
are and what the planes are doing
so that they can have their fun.

567
00:46:13.599 --> 00:46:19.039
But there were no other radar systems
operating in the area, so now you

568
00:46:19.159 --> 00:46:22.039
are, you don't and then there's
no place to shine the lasers from.

569
00:46:22.119 --> 00:46:25.159
So there's a lot of a lot
of problems with that. Hypothesis. I

570
00:46:25.159 --> 00:46:29.719
don't think it. You know,
we argued in the paper that it didn't

571
00:46:29.760 --> 00:46:32.519
hold up. It was a good
guess, a nice try, but yeah,

572
00:46:32.559 --> 00:46:37.800
someone brought up another skeptic, uh
Mick West, and asked if you

573
00:46:37.840 --> 00:46:43.079
I'd looked at his stuff, although
I know Mick West does not look at

574
00:46:43.079 --> 00:46:47.440
the anecdotal information, just the videos
themselves. But there's not a lot of

575
00:46:47.519 --> 00:46:51.960
data you can get out of the
videos themselves. It doesn't seem you can't

576
00:46:52.000 --> 00:46:55.559
get any speeds or accelerations of the
object without knowing how big it is or

577
00:46:55.559 --> 00:47:00.440
how far away it is from the
camera. That's really the fact, and

578
00:47:00.519 --> 00:47:04.960
so we needed to use the estimated
size, you know, from the pilots,

579
00:47:06.440 --> 00:47:08.400
And yes, that's a weak point, but as I mentioned, you

580
00:47:08.440 --> 00:47:12.000
can then ask the question, how
far off could they be. If they're

581
00:47:12.039 --> 00:47:15.239
off by a factor of ten,
it's still accelerated at eight eight g,

582
00:47:15.480 --> 00:47:22.679
which is which is a hefty acceleration
for a four foot object that's flying a

583
00:47:22.679 --> 00:47:25.480
few hundred feet in front of the
plane that we still don't know how it's

584
00:47:25.480 --> 00:47:30.880
flying, and you still don't see
any evidence of propellant. So there's still

585
00:47:31.039 --> 00:47:36.079
the same questions are still in play
what is what is that thing? And

586
00:47:36.119 --> 00:47:38.519
how is it flying? And how
is it moving? And you bring up

587
00:47:38.519 --> 00:47:45.760
the point pseudoscience kind of you were
the definition and the difference between regular science

588
00:47:45.800 --> 00:47:52.400
and and pseudoscience. It can happen
on both sides, I mean on the

589
00:47:52.480 --> 00:47:59.840
extreme skepticism as well as of course
and what people usually think of pseudoscience as

590
00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:01.920
those speculating out in the public,
which, like you said, there's a

591
00:48:01.960 --> 00:48:05.960
lot of that going on in the
UFO field, But it can happen on

592
00:48:06.039 --> 00:48:10.119
both ends. And maybe explain that
what is the difference between pseudoscience and real

593
00:48:10.199 --> 00:48:15.719
science? Oh gosh, that's a
really you'd have to look at your side.

594
00:48:16.239 --> 00:48:23.840
I'm going through my slides to remind
myself because it's to you, right,

595
00:48:25.159 --> 00:48:35.079
Yeah, so, I mean pseudoscience
seeks confirmation. Science seeks falsification.

596
00:48:35.320 --> 00:48:37.000
Is what you wrote, right,
That's that's what it was. I knew

597
00:48:37.039 --> 00:48:42.519
that there was a really nice summary. Yeah so so yeah, pseudoscience you

598
00:48:42.679 --> 00:48:46.119
seek confirmation. You're trying to confirm
your theory, confirm the idea, and

599
00:48:46.320 --> 00:48:50.920
science we work hard to falsify things. You know, can I show that

600
00:48:50.960 --> 00:48:53.119
this is wrong? What what experiment
can I do to show that that idea

601
00:48:53.239 --> 00:49:00.480
is wrong, and you and and
it's it's what the docs do when doctors

602
00:49:00.519 --> 00:49:07.599
are doing medical tests. You know, you have your ankle hurts, and

603
00:49:07.719 --> 00:49:09.280
they write you a script to get
an X right. And what does it

604
00:49:09.320 --> 00:49:14.880
say. It says our slash oh
right. They write our slash oh broken

605
00:49:14.920 --> 00:49:19.280
foot. And so what is the
R slash O stand for? It means

606
00:49:19.360 --> 00:49:23.360
rule out, you know, So
doctors are you know, coming down to

607
00:49:24.280 --> 00:49:30.719
making a diagnosis by ruling out other
possible diagnoses. And that's what we do

608
00:49:30.800 --> 00:49:36.320
as scientists. So so pseudoscientists aren't
out there falsifying. They're out trying to

609
00:49:36.360 --> 00:49:43.119
prove their case, whereas scientists are
falsifying things. So can I can I

610
00:49:43.239 --> 00:49:46.280
rule out the idea that this was
a structured craft? And and that's a

611
00:49:46.320 --> 00:49:50.159
good question. So now you look
at these videos and you look at those

612
00:49:50.159 --> 00:49:54.920
axhilarations, and another colleague of mine
here at U Alpany, she said very

613
00:49:55.320 --> 00:50:01.960
very correctly, she said, clearly, you can't accelerated craft at EIGHTYG through

614
00:50:02.000 --> 00:50:08.400
the air without a sonic boom.
So that rules out the hypothesis that it's

615
00:50:08.440 --> 00:50:15.639
a structured craft. And that's difficult
to argue against, right because that's very

616
00:50:15.719 --> 00:50:21.000
logical. The you know, the
argument against it is, well, well,

617
00:50:21.039 --> 00:50:24.639
we're hypothesizing that there are craft that
can accelerate that fast and you know,

618
00:50:24.679 --> 00:50:31.280
and do this sort of thing.
But so that would be what somebody

619
00:50:31.440 --> 00:50:37.320
is trying to prove that it's an
alien spacecraft would be having to do so.

620
00:50:37.400 --> 00:50:40.039
But you don't try to prove that
something. A scientist doesn't try to

621
00:50:40.119 --> 00:50:44.440
prove that it's an alien spacecraft.
We try to rule out other things,

622
00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:47.440
and that's what we try to do. Or we present a hypothesis and you

623
00:50:47.519 --> 00:50:52.639
show, well there is support for
that hypothesis. Can we come up with

624
00:50:52.719 --> 00:50:57.639
something that will rule out you know, that's where people get frustrated with me.

625
00:50:57.800 --> 00:51:01.480
But it's the same thing when they
send me pictures or videos or you

626
00:51:01.480 --> 00:51:06.400
know, I'll say, I can't
rule out that that's not a planet or

627
00:51:06.400 --> 00:51:10.000
a star. I can't rule out
that that's not a bug or a bird,

628
00:51:10.400 --> 00:51:15.039
and they get Bush Street and that's
really interesting. In videos, they

629
00:51:15.039 --> 00:51:20.039
come really close to the camera and
it looks really impressive. Birds and I've

630
00:51:20.079 --> 00:51:22.880
done this, in fact, there's
a video I have. In fact,

631
00:51:22.880 --> 00:51:30.480
I do it with this UFO.
But a bird flying by will look just

632
00:51:30.559 --> 00:51:34.119
like that when they zoom by so
any and this is what happens the most

633
00:51:34.159 --> 00:51:38.840
is people look at their vacation pictures
and they that looks like this, you

634
00:51:38.880 --> 00:51:42.679
know, fuzzy in the background,
and they're like, I didn't even see

635
00:51:42.679 --> 00:51:45.440
that UFO. There's a flying disc, but no, it's just a bird

636
00:51:45.519 --> 00:51:50.480
zooming buy very quickly in it.
That's what it's. It's very easily could

637
00:51:50.519 --> 00:51:58.320
be a swallow and yeah close and
looks bigger and yeah. So along the

638
00:51:58.760 --> 00:52:05.199
lines with the data and how things
change right now is that. You know,

639
00:52:05.920 --> 00:52:09.440
what's interesting to me is that you
talk about the importance of the Navy

640
00:52:09.519 --> 00:52:15.400
kind of making UFOs official, making
officially making them a thing, and that

641
00:52:15.639 --> 00:52:20.599
I know was one of Chris Mellen's
goals with his effort, you know,

642
00:52:20.639 --> 00:52:23.400
working with to the stars. You
know, he worked with the sci the

643
00:52:23.599 --> 00:52:28.920
Senate Intelligence Committee for those of you
who don't know, and so he's got

644
00:52:28.920 --> 00:52:31.400
a background doing this and he had
this strategy, you know, he's worked

645
00:52:31.400 --> 00:52:36.679
with with the Senate Intelligence Committee and
he's like, as soon as we can

646
00:52:36.719 --> 00:52:40.920
make this official in public, that
justifies the government then to say, hey,

647
00:52:42.039 --> 00:52:45.760
Navy, this is real, tell
us about it. You haven't told

648
00:52:45.840 --> 00:52:49.199
us about this yet why not?
And of course airy answer, which makes

649
00:52:49.239 --> 00:52:51.320
sense, I think, would be
that, well, we don't think there's

650
00:52:51.320 --> 00:52:53.159
anything to it, so that's why
we haven't told you. We haven't felt

651
00:52:53.199 --> 00:52:57.480
it's been important enough, which is
fair, and then they've just got to

652
00:52:57.519 --> 00:53:01.719
make that argument. But the one
thing we don't know is the data.

653
00:53:01.760 --> 00:53:06.480
So the Navy is saying this is
not Chinese, this is Russian, this

654
00:53:06.559 --> 00:53:13.199
is unidentified, but we have really
very little to none of their data.

655
00:53:13.239 --> 00:53:19.519
We don't know what data they use
to come to that determination. We have

656
00:53:19.599 --> 00:53:22.719
a little bit of it. Certainly
they most likely use that anecdotal Well,

657
00:53:23.159 --> 00:53:28.800
certainly they use the information you used
in your report, but they likely had

658
00:53:28.840 --> 00:53:32.679
a lot more. But we don't
have access to that data, right,

659
00:53:32.880 --> 00:53:37.800
nor do we even know what it
is. Yeah, and unfortunately, even

660
00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:43.360
if we did have access to it, it wouldn't be scientifically useful in the

661
00:53:43.400 --> 00:53:49.119
sense that you wouldn't have access to
those instruments. You wouldn't be able to

662
00:53:49.239 --> 00:53:52.599
know the characteristics of that instrument to
be able to, you know, really

663
00:53:52.599 --> 00:53:59.000
pin down what's going on in the
recording, and that would be challenging.

664
00:53:59.039 --> 00:54:05.840
And plus you know these you know, these videos weren't recorded in a controlled

665
00:54:05.880 --> 00:54:07.880
setting. You know, they're recorded, These are being recorded on the fly

666
00:54:08.159 --> 00:54:15.679
while everybody is excited and and you
know, holy beep, you know,

667
00:54:15.800 --> 00:54:21.719
so it's not a controlled setting.
And and it's going to be extremely difficult

668
00:54:21.719 --> 00:54:25.440
to get any recordings in a controlled
setting anybody, you know, I imagine

669
00:54:25.679 --> 00:54:30.159
you know. I'm working with u
ap X and we're we're hoping to go

670
00:54:30.239 --> 00:54:37.719
out, We're aiming to go out
on two research vessels out on the Pacific

671
00:54:37.760 --> 00:54:40.320
Ocean just south of Catalina Island in
the same area and look for these things

672
00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:45.960
over there a few miles Oh really
right, nice, Yeah, So we

673
00:54:46.039 --> 00:54:52.320
hope to do this sometime next year. And but and we're going to do

674
00:54:52.400 --> 00:54:55.480
our best to record, you know, if we see something, we're going

675
00:54:55.519 --> 00:55:00.400
to record, you know, everything
we can. But you know, but

676
00:55:00.480 --> 00:55:06.360
it's depending on how impressive the you
know, an encounter is. You know,

677
00:55:06.559 --> 00:55:08.239
I can't ensure that I'm not going
to be like, oh my god,

678
00:55:08.480 --> 00:55:13.320
you know, and it's hard to
stay controlled and to keep everything,

679
00:55:14.119 --> 00:55:17.519
keep everything calm so that you're getting
the best data you can and that you

680
00:55:17.519 --> 00:55:22.679
you know, are understand this situation. This is one reason why I'm interested

681
00:55:22.719 --> 00:55:27.679
in using satellites. Some of these
objects that have been observed are you know,

682
00:55:27.719 --> 00:55:30.960
a forty forty foot tick tack.
That's pretty big. You could see

683
00:55:30.960 --> 00:55:35.920
that by satellite. But but there
are reports of three hundred foot discs and

684
00:55:35.960 --> 00:55:39.960
things like that, you know,
from pilots, and and of course the

685
00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:44.840
skeptics are like three hundred foot discs, Well, well yeah, but when

686
00:55:45.079 --> 00:55:46.400
you know, how wrong is a
pilot going to be? You know,

687
00:55:46.519 --> 00:55:52.360
when you know in some cases,
you know, for the Japanese Airlines case

688
00:55:52.400 --> 00:55:55.239
over Anchorage, Alaska in nineteen eighty
six, you know, he said it

689
00:55:55.320 --> 00:56:00.320
was it filled the whole. You
know, his entire view was taken by

690
00:56:00.360 --> 00:56:07.079
the object that's big, and so
that should be observable by satellite and easily

691
00:56:07.119 --> 00:56:12.599
observable by satellite. And so can
we look for these things? Can we

692
00:56:12.639 --> 00:56:16.559
find them? And then and you
might be able to take a ground based

693
00:56:16.639 --> 00:56:22.000
sighting, you know, even from
regular citizens who normally wouldn't be very credible,

694
00:56:22.039 --> 00:56:27.360
but you might get somebody who happened
to get a photograph from the ground.

695
00:56:27.360 --> 00:56:30.000
And then you go back at that
time and day and look at for

696
00:56:30.039 --> 00:56:34.239
satellite imagery. There's your satellite image
of the object. You can verify whether

697
00:56:34.360 --> 00:56:37.800
there's been a siting or not.
So there you can falsify. You know,

698
00:56:37.880 --> 00:56:45.880
you can falsify claims using satellite data. And I think that's about as

699
00:56:45.920 --> 00:56:49.760
objective as we're going to be able
to be in the near future. I

700
00:56:49.760 --> 00:56:53.559
think, and you did. You
were featured in a space dot com article

701
00:56:53.679 --> 00:56:58.679
just in the last couple of days
written by Leonard David, a good dude

702
00:56:59.159 --> 00:57:02.440
I talked to, and a great
article where you were talking about that with

703
00:57:02.480 --> 00:57:08.440
Philippe and he presented that I remember
at the SEU conference a couple of years

704
00:57:08.440 --> 00:57:15.000
ago. But the data is an
important part. So let's talk about if

705
00:57:15.039 --> 00:57:20.840
you were working for the UAP Task
Force. Now, presumably I think what

706
00:57:20.880 --> 00:57:24.400
they're going to be looking for is
mostly foreign technology drones, that sort of

707
00:57:24.480 --> 00:57:30.559
thing, but they'll run across some
unidentified and we're not sure even what they're

708
00:57:30.599 --> 00:57:34.119
going to do completely with those.
But let's say you're on the group,

709
00:57:34.519 --> 00:57:39.599
let's pass this to Kevin's unidentified group. How would you go about doing some

710
00:57:39.679 --> 00:57:45.559
scientific investigation on these things? Like
you said, it might be really difficult

711
00:57:45.760 --> 00:57:57.559
even if you're the United States Navy. Yeah, you're going to want to

712
00:57:57.599 --> 00:58:02.880
get high quality images of the objects
in as many wavelengths as possible, you

713
00:58:02.920 --> 00:58:07.519
know, so you would want infrared
imagery, You're going to want visual imagery.

714
00:58:07.599 --> 00:58:12.440
You're going to want you know,
you want to be able to pick

715
00:58:12.519 --> 00:58:15.800
up X rays and gamma rays if
they're there. You know, you're going

716
00:58:15.840 --> 00:58:20.079
to want to see all of these
things. What kind of light if the

717
00:58:20.079 --> 00:58:22.239
objects emitting light, you know,
what kind of light is it? How

718
00:58:22.519 --> 00:58:25.760
how is the light being generated?
You can figure that out by looking at

719
00:58:25.800 --> 00:58:30.400
the spectrum of the light. So
you're going to want to record spectrum,

720
00:58:30.519 --> 00:58:35.159
you know, and over wide,
you know, very broad frequency ranges or

721
00:58:35.199 --> 00:58:40.960
wavelengths, and you're going to and
if you do have something like X rays

722
00:58:42.039 --> 00:58:45.079
or gamma rays, you're going to
want to check for other types of particles.

723
00:58:45.199 --> 00:58:47.119
Is the thing, you know,
generating particles around it? You know,

724
00:58:47.239 --> 00:58:52.960
are there alpha particles, beta particles, anything else? So you're going

725
00:58:52.039 --> 00:58:57.079
to want to detect things like that. There's there's a lot of things you

726
00:58:57.119 --> 00:59:02.400
would like to do. In the
ideal case, whether the Navy is or

727
00:59:02.440 --> 00:59:07.519
anybody is going to be set up
with all of that equipment in any one

728
00:59:07.599 --> 00:59:13.400
situation is very unlikely. So that's
it's difficult it's difficult to study things that

729
00:59:13.519 --> 00:59:22.079
you can't control. And this is
really why this topic is as difficult to

730
00:59:22.119 --> 00:59:24.760
study, is as all the others
that are difficult to control. You have

731
00:59:24.800 --> 00:59:30.960
to you can't just study supernovae.
You can't study a supernova. I'm just

732
00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:32.360
going to go study supernova. Well, there isn't one to look at.

733
00:59:32.400 --> 00:59:36.440
You've got to wait till one happens, right, And so fortunately they are

734
00:59:36.599 --> 00:59:40.400
common enough and you know in the
nearby galaxies that we can wait for them

735
00:59:40.440 --> 00:59:45.960
and look for them. Earthquakes,
earthquakes, it's hard to have the equipment,

736
00:59:45.360 --> 00:59:49.480
all the equipment you want set up
to study an earthquake. You know,

737
00:59:49.519 --> 00:59:52.559
when Freeman Freund was looking at trying
to study earthquake lights, he has

738
00:59:52.639 --> 00:59:57.000
to have certain equipment set up where
there's going to be an earthquake. That's

739
00:59:57.039 --> 01:00:04.880
hard to do. So that's really
the difficulty, if not impossible. And

740
01:00:05.280 --> 01:00:09.000
UFOs are especially if if if you
know, if you've only got a fraction

741
01:00:09.079 --> 01:00:15.480
of UFOs turned out to be something
interesting like an alien spacecraft or an alien

742
01:00:15.519 --> 01:00:20.039
probe, if it's only a fraction
of those, then then it's going to

743
01:00:20.079 --> 01:00:22.559
be impossible to have all of your
equipment in the right place at the right

744
01:00:22.599 --> 01:00:29.639
time to detect these things, better
off monitoring for them coming in, you

745
01:00:29.639 --> 01:00:35.840
know, from somewhere else or however
they approach Earth or whatever. So it's

746
01:00:35.880 --> 01:00:39.800
extremely it's extremely challenging, and it's
not clear that that there's any easy answer.

747
01:00:39.960 --> 01:00:45.159
I mean, this is really take
a long time to figure out,

748
01:00:45.480 --> 01:00:49.239
and the resources that you'd need would
need to be extraordinary. Fortunately, the

749
01:00:49.320 --> 01:00:57.280
military has you know, assets,
uh an observation equipment throughout the world around

750
01:00:57.320 --> 01:01:01.000
the entire planet, and it would
take that sort of ability to be able

751
01:01:01.039 --> 01:01:07.840
to capture even probably a small amount
of data. Right now. When it

752
01:01:07.880 --> 01:01:15.840
comes to the data, now,
you've been doing some science around this,

753
01:01:15.719 --> 01:01:24.159
mostly some computer modeling to kind of
speculate or or on the nature of the

754
01:01:24.960 --> 01:01:30.920
who might be coming here and their
technology, and I think that's really interesting.

755
01:01:31.360 --> 01:01:37.440
And what's interesting about that is it
demonstrates this is some science that we

756
01:01:37.559 --> 01:01:44.360
can do right now even without all
this other data. Yeah, that's that's

757
01:01:44.440 --> 01:01:52.159
one of the things that I wanted
to I wanted to do something, and

758
01:01:52.239 --> 01:01:54.920
so it's I can't just go collect
data right now, so you know,

759
01:01:55.000 --> 01:01:58.760
I really thought, what can we
do? And so one of the things

760
01:01:58.800 --> 01:02:01.760
I could, you know, thought
of doing is I could try to model,

761
01:02:02.480 --> 01:02:07.960
you know, a civilization exploring some
region of the galaxy. Right,

762
01:02:07.079 --> 01:02:12.960
And the idea then is to so
what I what I had done in this

763
01:02:13.079 --> 01:02:20.920
project is I I modeled about two
million civilizations, and I kept track,

764
01:02:21.079 --> 01:02:27.199
and they each had very they had
slightly different characteristics. They had they could

765
01:02:27.199 --> 01:02:31.840
travel at different speeds or different accelerations, they could withstand the longer journeys or

766
01:02:32.119 --> 01:02:36.880
or some of them shorter journeys,
and things like this. And so I

767
01:02:37.079 --> 01:02:40.679
just looked to see what would happen
if you had a civilization that started colonizing

768
01:02:40.840 --> 01:02:45.719
other star systems and spreading out.
Now were and of course not at that

769
01:02:45.760 --> 01:02:52.719
point yet, but we're working towards
that, right. And so after two

770
01:02:52.760 --> 01:03:00.599
million civil simulations of this, I
then looked to see in in my simulated

771
01:03:00.639 --> 01:03:04.440
galaxy, Earth is there. So
I look to see how many of those

772
01:03:05.079 --> 01:03:13.119
simulated civilizations actually found Earth and so
and and and for those civilizations that did

773
01:03:13.159 --> 01:03:16.360
find Earth, I looked to see
what their characteristics were what allowed them to

774
01:03:16.400 --> 01:03:22.880
pull it off. So I'm not
going to be remember all the you know,

775
01:03:22.000 --> 01:03:27.320
results off the top of my head, of course, but the but

776
01:03:27.400 --> 01:03:32.679
the chance of finding Earth is very
slim. The it's it's literally down into

777
01:03:34.280 --> 01:03:43.159
fractions of tents of a percent,
and the kind of answering the Fermi paradox

778
01:03:43.239 --> 01:03:47.000
a bit. Yeah, The problem
is the galaxy is big. You've got

779
01:03:47.400 --> 01:03:58.039
three hundred billion stars and and you're
to find happen upon Earth is almost impossible,

780
01:03:58.480 --> 01:04:00.719
and so that really, you know
that that to me was a bit

781
01:04:00.760 --> 01:04:03.840
surprising. It was much harder to
find Earth than I expect that it would

782
01:04:03.880 --> 01:04:10.360
be when I when I first just
started the project, I realized I had

783
01:04:10.400 --> 01:04:14.920
to literally go out to millions of
civilizations before you had any number of them

784
01:04:14.960 --> 01:04:19.880
finding Earth. And the algorithms I
used actually pared down and focused on civilizations

785
01:04:19.880 --> 01:04:24.320
I had a better chance of finding
Earth, so that made it a bit

786
01:04:24.360 --> 01:04:30.599
easier, but it ended up being
something like, you know, one out

787
01:04:30.599 --> 01:04:33.000
of you know, one out of
ten million, one out of eight million

788
01:04:33.079 --> 01:04:38.719
chants of finding Earth, and then
I could then But then once I had

789
01:04:38.719 --> 01:04:42.119
a set of civilizations I did find
Earth. In my simulations, I could

790
01:04:42.199 --> 01:04:49.679
look at what their characteristics were,
so it didn't depend very much on their

791
01:04:49.719 --> 01:04:54.880
speed or acceleration. They just had
to be able to go fast enough to

792
01:04:54.960 --> 01:05:00.480
get to nearby stars that didn't seem
to once you could go much faster than

793
01:05:00.079 --> 01:05:06.880
others that didn't do much for you. They just have to be able to

794
01:05:06.920 --> 01:05:12.599
perform interstellar travel. That's really all
that you needed there. And then it

795
01:05:12.719 --> 01:05:18.480
turned out that the probability for their
origin turned out to be that they were

796
01:05:18.519 --> 01:05:24.920
within They originated from within ten thousand
light years from here, which is a

797
01:05:24.960 --> 01:05:30.480
good distance the galaxy is about it's
about one hundred and fifty thousand light years

798
01:05:30.519 --> 01:05:36.280
across. So I use this to
get some idea of if we do have

799
01:05:36.400 --> 01:05:42.920
aliens visiting Earth, what can we
expect them to be like? And so

800
01:05:43.519 --> 01:05:46.639
I have some answers there, which
you know from these simulations which I'm now

801
01:05:46.719 --> 01:05:54.199
working on writing up to hopefully publish. And so what would they be like,

802
01:05:54.280 --> 01:05:57.719
Well, they're probably from nearby,
they're probably from within ten thousand light

803
01:05:57.760 --> 01:06:05.880
years of here. Originally they've their
It turns out that they've probably been coming

804
01:06:05.880 --> 01:06:10.159
to Earth for a long time.
They probably discovered Earth a long time ago,

805
01:06:10.360 --> 01:06:14.880
on the order of more than two
hundred and fifty thousand years ago,

806
01:06:15.039 --> 01:06:20.320
so certainly have known about Earth throughout
human history. That's almost a certainty.

807
01:06:21.119 --> 01:06:27.239
And and so there were some interesting
facts that came out from that that simulated

808
01:06:27.320 --> 01:06:32.559
these simulations, which was quite fun. So I do want to ask about

809
01:06:32.639 --> 01:06:35.960
first, I guess I'll ask real
quick at this question that someone just posted

810
01:06:36.000 --> 01:06:41.800
in that I was looking up the
details of and they said, uh,

811
01:06:41.880 --> 01:06:46.440
why so little attention has been paid
to scientific Americans changing their positions at uap

812
01:06:46.599 --> 01:06:54.639
AR deserving of genuine research. I
think that the article they we're referring to

813
01:06:54.960 --> 01:07:02.880
is the one by surving Jacob Misra. Yeah, yes, yeah, it's

814
01:07:02.920 --> 01:07:10.760
an opinion piece. Right. No, they're both they're both SETI researchers.

815
01:07:10.920 --> 01:07:14.840
And after that article came out,
I contacted them, Well, we were

816
01:07:14.840 --> 01:07:20.760
actually I was actually presenting at a
meeting that they helped to organize. They

817
01:07:21.199 --> 01:07:31.480
organized a session SETI session at the
European Astronomical Society meeting this summer, and

818
01:07:31.559 --> 01:07:36.480
so their article came out about the
same time and Philippe Alearis and I had

819
01:07:36.559 --> 01:07:43.039
already had our abstract accepted to be
presented there. So we were going to

820
01:07:43.079 --> 01:07:50.079
be talking about looking for techno signatures
we call them a you know, extraterrestrial

821
01:07:50.199 --> 01:07:59.800
or techno signatures using satellites in the
near Earth environment. And and so since

822
01:08:00.199 --> 01:08:02.639
they had organized the meeting and they
had just published that opinion piece, and

823
01:08:02.639 --> 01:08:08.800
I contacted them. So we've been
in touch and talked about what can be

824
01:08:08.840 --> 01:08:12.920
done, what needs to be done, and things like this. So so

825
01:08:13.079 --> 01:08:19.920
there are more scientists now getting interested
and that's really exciting. Well, and

826
01:08:19.960 --> 01:08:26.439
you and I are both affiliated with
SCU, the Scientific Coalition for UAP Studies,

827
01:08:26.479 --> 01:08:30.720
So this is another group that of
scientists that are interested in studying these

828
01:08:30.760 --> 01:08:36.520
things. When it comes to the
scientific community, when and the UAP Task

829
01:08:36.600 --> 01:08:42.720
Force, what ideally would you like
to see because we have no indication,

830
01:08:42.840 --> 01:08:45.239
at least we do have a little
bit of indication that it doesn't seem like

831
01:08:45.359 --> 01:08:49.319
they're going to be in a kind
of a mode to regularly share information with

832
01:08:49.399 --> 01:08:55.880
the public. There's been a couple
of statements that their work will be classified

833
01:08:55.960 --> 01:09:00.760
and the results will be classified.
But I mean, would you like to

834
01:09:00.800 --> 01:09:04.119
see some of that information shared with
the public, perhaps the scientific community.

835
01:09:04.840 --> 01:09:08.600
I think it would be in their
best interest to share it with the scientific

836
01:09:08.600 --> 01:09:17.039
community. The and and in fact, I had written a letter with Jacob

837
01:09:17.560 --> 01:09:23.880
and Ravi and Matthew should Augus from
one of my colleagues here at U Albany

838
01:09:24.439 --> 01:09:29.880
to send to those on the UAP
Task Force to request that they share information

839
01:09:29.960 --> 01:09:36.680
with the scientific community. So I
think that's very important. It's unfortunately,

840
01:09:36.760 --> 01:09:44.119
it's very easy for the people who
do people who do classified work have this

841
01:09:44.279 --> 01:09:48.680
mindset that the most important work that
happens is classified work, and that's unfortunately

842
01:09:48.760 --> 01:09:53.760
it's not that not really true.
And part of that comes from drinking their

843
01:09:53.760 --> 01:09:57.199
own kool aid. They have to
convince people that they have to convince the

844
01:09:58.119 --> 01:10:00.119
people who give them money that what
we do is the most important thing,

845
01:10:00.199 --> 01:10:04.720
and so they end up believing that. But if you look at breakthroughs,

846
01:10:04.800 --> 01:10:10.520
breakthroughs don't happen that way as often
as they do other ways. Breakthroughs are

847
01:10:10.600 --> 01:10:16.760
kind of random. You had the
airplane was developed by two bicycle mechanics,

848
01:10:17.600 --> 01:10:24.039
right, The theory of relativity came
from a patent clerk. These are these

849
01:10:24.039 --> 01:10:30.640
are you know, people out in
the community. So so it would be

850
01:10:30.680 --> 01:10:34.279
in their best interest to have the
scientific community working on this problem and thinking

851
01:10:34.319 --> 01:10:38.960
on this problem. In fact,
in fact, I would be supportive of

852
01:10:39.039 --> 01:10:44.439
something more like a Manhattan Project style
effort, where we are we take this

853
01:10:44.520 --> 01:10:46.840
seriously and let's find out what these
things are. I mean, if it

854
01:10:47.359 --> 01:10:53.319
if it really does turn out that
some of the even one of these objects

855
01:10:53.600 --> 01:10:58.159
was an alien probe, that's something
we're going to want to know about,

856
01:10:58.359 --> 01:11:01.920
and with something we ought to take
soeriously as a planet, as humanity.

857
01:11:02.039 --> 01:11:06.079
I know, you know, twenty
twenty has thrown a lot at us this

858
01:11:06.199 --> 01:11:10.000
year. But you know, if
it turns out that we find out that

859
01:11:10.000 --> 01:11:15.279
they're aliens visiting Earth, that's probably
the biggest problem we'll have on our hands.

860
01:11:15.239 --> 01:11:18.399
And I and I don't mean problem, you know, and I say

861
01:11:18.479 --> 01:11:21.439
problem, but it's a potential problem. You have to make sure it's not

862
01:11:21.520 --> 01:11:26.119
a problem. And the only way
to do that is to educate ourselves.

863
01:11:26.159 --> 01:11:29.199
We have to find out, you
know, what are these things? You

864
01:11:29.199 --> 01:11:31.359
know, if some of them turn
out to be alien craft, then where

865
01:11:31.399 --> 01:11:33.680
did they come from? What are
they doing here? What do they want?

866
01:11:33.920 --> 01:11:36.439
You know, are they just studying
us? You know? Do they

867
01:11:38.439 --> 01:11:40.840
do? They appear to be friendly? You know, that's good, but

868
01:11:41.119 --> 01:11:45.039
I don't know if I'm not willing
to you know, the risk we're worth

869
01:11:45.079 --> 01:11:48.119
taking, you know, just to
say, well, they haven't done anything

870
01:11:48.199 --> 01:11:50.560
yet, so they're probably fine,
so we'll just ignore them. Right,

871
01:11:50.680 --> 01:11:58.199
and what that seems to be potentially
what is going on? What's going on?

872
01:11:58.520 --> 01:12:01.520
Right? Yeah, but you know, but they don't. We don't

873
01:12:01.520 --> 01:12:05.920
do that about Russians. I mean, yeah, Russians us for a while,

874
01:12:06.000 --> 01:12:10.760
so we'll just kind of ignore them
and the I'm sure, oh that's

875
01:12:11.039 --> 01:12:15.399
we know better. Yeah, and
I think that I don't. I don't

876
01:12:15.439 --> 01:12:18.840
like I don't like painting them,
you know, if they exist, if

877
01:12:18.840 --> 01:12:23.279
there are somebody visiting Earth, I
don't want to paint them as a as

878
01:12:23.319 --> 01:12:26.880
a threat. And we don't know
that they're a threat. But but anything

879
01:12:27.000 --> 01:12:30.079
is a potential threat, you know, and you know, you need to

880
01:12:30.159 --> 01:12:33.680
just we need to be informed.
That's that's what the situation needs to be.

881
01:12:34.800 --> 01:12:39.319
I agree, because I think that's
the best case scenario with what's going

882
01:12:39.319 --> 01:12:43.800
on right now. The worst case
scenario is that the Senate Intelligence Committee gets

883
01:12:43.800 --> 01:12:47.000
their report, the public facing one, maybe has a few stats, not

884
01:12:47.159 --> 01:12:51.039
much. Then the Senate Intelligence Committee
says, hey, looks good to ash.

885
01:12:51.119 --> 01:12:56.079
You guys got this all well taken
care of, keep on keeping on,

886
01:12:56.199 --> 01:13:00.000
and then we're all still left in
the dark. I think the best

887
01:13:00.079 --> 01:13:08.560
case scenario would be some cooperation with
an organization where they are sharing data so

888
01:13:08.600 --> 01:13:15.520
that there can be some scientific,
transparent, scientific investigation on the true anomalies,

889
01:13:15.119 --> 01:13:20.319
but it's hard to separate that from
the data that should remain classified that

890
01:13:20.439 --> 01:13:29.399
could potentially, you know, pose
a genuine threat, right yeah, I

891
01:13:29.399 --> 01:13:31.560
think, well, I think,
you know, there's several difficulties if you

892
01:13:31.640 --> 01:13:40.079
do have alien craft visiting Earth.
There's the technology aspect. This technology is

893
01:13:40.359 --> 01:13:45.600
going to be powerful and and there's
going to be people who are going to

894
01:13:45.640 --> 01:13:48.359
be worried about it falling in the
wrong hands, so they won't want to

895
01:13:48.399 --> 01:13:54.760
share information. But the difficulty is
that other countries are looking into this too.

896
01:13:54.840 --> 01:13:59.439
We're not the only ones you know, collecting data here, so it

897
01:13:59.560 --> 01:14:03.760
really I think it really is better
to share. Better for all of us

898
01:14:03.800 --> 01:14:06.800
to get the technology at the same
time than for any one of us to

899
01:14:06.840 --> 01:14:12.520
get the technology over the others,
I think. But I'm not not an

900
01:14:12.520 --> 01:14:15.319
expert in this, So where do
we go from here? Where for those

901
01:14:15.319 --> 01:14:19.319
in the UFO community, for instance, how did they advocate for this?

902
01:14:19.439 --> 01:14:24.479
I think that you know, calling
the White House and saying we know that

903
01:14:24.520 --> 01:14:29.720
you're making deals with aliens, it's
probably not the way to go. It

904
01:14:29.760 --> 01:14:41.880
hasn't worked in the past. It's
difficult. I think the the UFO community

905
01:14:41.920 --> 01:14:47.199
as a whole has a wide variety
of beliefs that are not scientifically founded,

906
01:14:47.319 --> 01:14:51.319
and we don't have the evidence.
The evidence does not exist for those beliefs,

907
01:14:51.439 --> 01:14:56.680
and it's unfortunate. I would like
there to be evidence for some of

908
01:14:56.720 --> 01:15:00.760
these things. And some of these
beliefs are interesting, and I find some

909
01:15:00.840 --> 01:15:04.039
of this fascinating, but but I
call it a mythology, you know.

910
01:15:04.119 --> 01:15:09.399
I try to understand this mythology.
I like to you know, I like

911
01:15:09.439 --> 01:15:12.880
to hear about some of these anecdotes, and some of them are really fascinating.

912
01:15:12.920 --> 01:15:17.079
But it's important to realize it's important
to keep in mind that this is

913
01:15:17.119 --> 01:15:23.119
what you know. What we know
is different and and for me, it

914
01:15:23.159 --> 01:15:26.680
isn't about belief. And I've had
people ask me in interviews, do you

915
01:15:26.720 --> 01:15:30.840
believe that aliens are visiting Earth?
And I and it doesn't matter what I

916
01:15:30.880 --> 01:15:33.720
believe. I want to know if
they're visiting Earth. I want something more

917
01:15:33.760 --> 01:15:43.640
concrete, more powerful, And I
think the best thing anybody can do is

918
01:15:43.680 --> 01:15:53.760
to talk to their senators and congressmen
and try to emphasize that this data should

919
01:15:53.760 --> 01:15:58.560
be shared with the scientific community.
Once you get once you get scientists involved,

920
01:15:58.560 --> 01:16:02.479
nobody's going to be able to stop. I mean, and once scientists,

921
01:16:02.560 --> 01:16:05.119
you know, if once we figure
out how to collect data on some

922
01:16:05.159 --> 01:16:11.520
of these things and we find out
it's interesting, the discoveries are going to

923
01:16:11.560 --> 01:16:14.520
happen, and they'll happen fast.
I mean, scientists will dive on board,

924
01:16:14.680 --> 01:16:16.840
It'll drop what they're doing, and
they'll run to solve this problem because

925
01:16:16.880 --> 01:16:21.880
it's one of the most interesting.
It's potentially one of the most interesting discoveries

926
01:16:21.960 --> 01:16:27.600
ever. So who wouldn't want to
work on that? And speaking of myths,

927
01:16:27.640 --> 01:16:30.239
I mean a lot of some of
UFO people will hear that and say,

928
01:16:30.279 --> 01:16:33.199
oh, yeah, right, Like
who NASA they're lying about us,

929
01:16:33.199 --> 01:16:38.920
about everything. Everybody's lying. Scientific
community is hiding everything that whenever they find

930
01:16:39.000 --> 01:16:42.880
something and alien bodies, they just
hide it. You know. They believe

931
01:16:42.920 --> 01:16:48.399
that the entire scientific community essentially is
part of this cover up, whereas I

932
01:16:48.600 --> 01:16:53.479
argue the opposite, especially like with
NASA. I mean, the NASA has

933
01:16:53.520 --> 01:17:00.079
a lot of citizens scienceist programs which
are very successful. People are finding meteorites

934
01:17:00.199 --> 01:17:04.319
and comment and getting them named after
themselves and all of this sort of thing.

935
01:17:05.560 --> 01:17:12.439
Science especially in astronomy. It doesn't
work the way that conspiracy minded people

936
01:17:12.479 --> 01:17:17.840
think it does. No. Yeah, and as important is data sharing amongst

937
01:17:18.239 --> 01:17:25.439
scientists, especially when it comes to
like astronomy. Oh, it depends.

938
01:17:28.880 --> 01:17:35.319
Data is usually pretty freely shared.
The I've I've found, you know,

939
01:17:35.680 --> 01:17:39.800
my colleagues to be quite helpful,
you know, some of the some of

940
01:17:39.840 --> 01:17:45.359
the data's open. So for example, I do work on characterizing exoplanets plants

941
01:17:45.439 --> 01:17:50.960
orbiting other stars, and we use
data from the Coupler Space Telescope. And

942
01:17:51.000 --> 01:17:55.720
that's all. That's all online.
I mean, anybody can go you you

943
01:17:55.760 --> 01:17:58.720
could, I can show you how
you can go and download data from the

944
01:17:58.760 --> 01:18:02.199
Kepler Space Telescope or anybody can.
It's all online. It's it's you know,

945
01:18:02.239 --> 01:18:08.359
and and it's it's produced by NASA. It's been paid for by the

946
01:18:08.399 --> 01:18:13.680
American tax payer, and it's freely
available to the American tax payer payer anybody

947
01:18:13.720 --> 01:18:15.560
can. You know, it's fairly
available with anybody on the planet. Really,

948
01:18:16.439 --> 01:18:19.800
And so that's the data I use, you know, to do my

949
01:18:19.880 --> 01:18:24.640
work on exoplanets. But you know, sometimes we need other data. And

950
01:18:24.800 --> 01:18:28.640
so I have in the past contacted
you know, colleagues and said, is

951
01:18:28.680 --> 01:18:31.279
there do you have any data on
this star? You know, we'd like

952
01:18:31.359 --> 01:18:35.600
to get some of these measurements from
this star. And usually it's like,

953
01:18:35.760 --> 01:18:39.560
no, we don't, but you
know, I have a little extra time

954
01:18:39.600 --> 01:18:44.439
on the telescope tonight and I'll I'll
swing over and I'll collect some data for

955
01:18:44.560 --> 01:18:46.279
you and send it to you in
the morning. I've had that happen and

956
01:18:46.359 --> 01:18:51.760
so they're more than willing to do
that, and people are generally very eager

957
01:18:51.800 --> 01:18:56.600
to work together. Well, we've
taken up a lot of your time.

958
01:18:58.279 --> 01:19:00.439
I don't I think we've gotten to
most of the top everybody's been talking about.

959
01:19:00.439 --> 01:19:04.279
They've been loving it and having a
great time. I did want to

960
01:19:04.439 --> 01:19:12.119
show one image and let me see, let me get this up and it's

961
01:19:12.199 --> 01:19:19.439
fitting for the time that we're in. And you'll see why when I bring

962
01:19:19.479 --> 01:19:28.560
this up, because this here with
one here slides and I love it because

963
01:19:28.560 --> 01:19:33.920
it's almost Halloween and it says here
this was your display in your yard for

964
01:19:34.039 --> 01:19:38.960
Halloween? Was that last year?
No, Well, this puno was taking

965
01:19:39.000 --> 01:19:43.399
a few years ago. I've I've
had the UFO put up a few years

966
01:19:43.439 --> 01:19:48.399
in a row. Yeah, it's
this year, probably not this year.

967
01:19:48.439 --> 01:19:54.119
I'm a little. I'll be honest. My neighbors all asked me if I'm

968
01:19:54.119 --> 01:19:57.399
going to put it out, and
they seem to be eager for it to

969
01:19:57.479 --> 01:20:01.119
be on display. But I'm to
be truth be told, I'm a little

970
01:20:01.159 --> 01:20:08.359
ufoed out at this point. I
had had first built this as a project

971
01:20:08.399 --> 01:20:11.680
with my you know, my son
and daughter a few years ago before I

972
01:20:11.760 --> 01:20:15.760
really actually started working on UFOs.
But now I think, I now that

973
01:20:15.840 --> 01:20:19.279
was a little too close to home
and it feels a little weird. I

974
01:20:19.479 --> 01:20:23.920
don't want people to My neighbors are
going to really think he's a real nut.

975
01:20:24.000 --> 01:20:29.199
He studies UFOs and he puts one
on his lawn all the time.

976
01:20:29.439 --> 01:20:32.319
It's so funny you say that,
because I shy away from like UFO shirts

977
01:20:32.359 --> 01:20:35.520
and T shirts and stuff for the
same reason. And it's like, you

978
01:20:35.560 --> 01:20:39.119
know, I don't want to be
that guy, because just because I look

979
01:20:39.159 --> 01:20:42.119
into it doesn't mean I'm obsessed,
and I don't want to look like I'm

980
01:20:42.159 --> 01:20:46.640
obsessed. That's right, that's funnyway, that's great, that's really cool.

981
01:20:47.239 --> 01:20:49.920
Well, thank you very much.
I mean, right now, in this

982
01:20:50.359 --> 01:20:55.239
time and age, I mean,
it's very exciting, obviously, and you

983
01:20:55.520 --> 01:20:59.479
seem to enjoy getting involved. And
I've noticed, you know at the Congress

984
01:20:59.520 --> 01:21:02.800
you did get purchase a T shirt
or too. I have a sweatshirt yep,

985
01:21:03.520 --> 01:21:06.920
yeah, which are They're pretty cool? So I mean, how do

986
01:21:06.960 --> 01:21:13.960
you in your mind, you know, a lot of people in the UFO

987
01:21:14.000 --> 01:21:17.600
community, for a example, believe
that you know this is all leading to

988
01:21:17.680 --> 01:21:23.319
some kind of major disclosure of the
UFO and a hangar and the roswell alien

989
01:21:24.640 --> 01:21:27.159
people in the public. I think
a lot of people in the public,

990
01:21:27.239 --> 01:21:30.039
like your colleagues that you've been talking
about, don't know what to make cads

991
01:21:30.119 --> 01:21:32.720
or tails of what the heck's going
on with all of this. But then

992
01:21:32.760 --> 01:21:36.800
you have the Senate Intelligence Committee saying, Okay, we want to know more

993
01:21:38.039 --> 01:21:42.800
and we want you to provide the
public with some more information. Where do

994
01:21:42.920 --> 01:21:45.239
you see all this heading and what
is you do you have a positive kind

995
01:21:45.239 --> 01:21:50.840
of outlook towards towards where we're headed
with all this? I do, generally,

996
01:21:51.119 --> 01:21:57.119
I think that this is all this
is all positive. Every every time

997
01:21:57.319 --> 01:22:02.800
there's some kind of disclosure, anytime
another pilot comes forward, anytime we have

998
01:22:03.000 --> 01:22:06.239
one of these things happen, it
seems to have a snowballing effect, more,

999
01:22:06.359 --> 01:22:10.640
more people get involved. More,
you know, I get contacts from

1000
01:22:10.680 --> 01:22:13.840
more scientists. How I saw you
study these things? What can I do

1001
01:22:13.920 --> 01:22:15.399
to help? You know? What? What can what could I do?

1002
01:22:16.000 --> 01:22:19.600
And I think there's people who are
really interested, and so I think that

1003
01:22:20.439 --> 01:22:26.119
I think that we very well will
will eventually get to the bottom of this

1004
01:22:26.319 --> 01:22:30.680
and we'll find out what's going on. Is it going to be what you

1005
01:22:30.720 --> 01:22:34.239
know, some of the people in
the UFO community the thought was going on,

1006
01:22:34.359 --> 01:22:40.039
I don't know, you know,
we'll find out. I I would

1007
01:22:40.079 --> 01:22:45.000
be very excited if there were you
know, there were we were being visited

1008
01:22:45.039 --> 01:22:47.880
by somebody from and you know,
from somewhere else. I think that would

1009
01:22:47.880 --> 01:22:50.760
be very exciting. Of course,
it would be one of the biggest discoveries

1010
01:22:50.760 --> 01:22:57.880
in human history that were not alone. And and then of course the fact

1011
01:22:57.880 --> 01:23:01.119
that they have craft that can try
to other stars means that that's something we

1012
01:23:01.159 --> 01:23:04.119
should be able to pull off too, And that I find out so exciting.

1013
01:23:04.279 --> 01:23:11.399
So I am hopeful, and I
think that I think there is there

1014
01:23:11.399 --> 01:23:14.039
are some questions that need to be
answered here, and I think that,

1015
01:23:14.720 --> 01:23:16.439
you know, scientists should get involved
and look into this. But I think

1016
01:23:16.479 --> 01:23:21.479
it's important to keep in mind that
we don't know, we don't know what

1017
01:23:23.680 --> 01:23:29.199
you know, these these especially these
really anomalous interesting cases are we don't know

1018
01:23:29.199 --> 01:23:33.279
what these objects are. And to
prove that they are, you know,

1019
01:23:33.359 --> 01:23:38.560
to determine whether something is extratrustrial is
actually very difficult to do. It's not

1020
01:23:38.680 --> 01:23:43.920
going to be easy. I often
joke that, and yes, you can

1021
01:23:43.960 --> 01:23:46.359
do an isotope analysis and things like
this, but there's always, you know,

1022
01:23:46.439 --> 01:23:49.600
going to be some question. And
I joke with my you know,

1023
01:23:49.640 --> 01:23:56.119
friends and colleagues that it's almost going
to take dragging and living alien kicking and

1024
01:23:56.159 --> 01:24:00.039
screaming off as spacecraft and holding them
up for everyone to see for people to

1025
01:24:00.159 --> 01:24:04.079
finally accept, oh that, oh, this is what's happening, you know.

1026
01:24:04.119 --> 01:24:08.760
And I think it might just take
something crazy like that for people to

1027
01:24:09.720 --> 01:24:13.960
for for that to be to be
believed. If that's the if that is

1028
01:24:14.000 --> 01:24:18.239
the case of what's going on,
and I get ahead, Oh, I

1029
01:24:18.279 --> 01:24:21.840
was just going to say, and
whether you know, whether we do whether

1030
01:24:23.279 --> 01:24:28.640
our government or other governments do possess
crash craft and technology and things like this,

1031
01:24:28.800 --> 01:24:31.760
that that's an interesting question. And
I and you know, and I'm

1032
01:24:31.920 --> 01:24:36.239
on the fence I'm not sure what
I believe. I I worry because the

1033
01:24:36.359 --> 01:24:43.800
number of crashes appears to be quite
high, and I would worry about their

1034
01:24:43.840 --> 01:24:50.039
ability to fly their spacecraft if they're
crashing that often. So so I I'm

1035
01:24:50.119 --> 01:24:55.840
very skeptical that there really are that
many crashes, and and and if if,

1036
01:24:55.920 --> 01:25:00.960
if any and so. But yeah, they'd happening all the time.

1037
01:25:00.760 --> 01:25:03.920
Yeah, they would be happy.
They're like, hey, can you jump

1038
01:25:03.960 --> 01:25:10.039
start me? We gotta that's right. But I guess the last question would

1039
01:25:10.079 --> 01:25:14.319
be because now that you've mentioned all
this, the other aspect is if that

1040
01:25:14.520 --> 01:25:16.079
is true too, they've got the
UFO, an alien and the Hangar.

1041
01:25:16.920 --> 01:25:23.319
Because of the nature of the more
secret the less people involved, and the

1042
01:25:23.399 --> 01:25:29.119
less scientists involved. Most likely then
there isn't a lot of science being done.

1043
01:25:30.680 --> 01:25:33.520
If that's I guess, there's very
little known. If you know,

1044
01:25:34.039 --> 01:25:39.000
if you know, if they are
working on, if they do have crash

1045
01:25:39.039 --> 01:25:42.520
craft, if they do have data. I'm guessing that very little is actually

1046
01:25:42.520 --> 01:25:47.079
known about these things, and it's
probably so compartmentalized it literally is going to

1047
01:25:47.079 --> 01:25:51.880
be a handful of people. And
with the scenario that Eric Davis gave,

1048
01:25:53.239 --> 01:25:58.199
who is a contractor and and he
says that's what he hears out there,

1049
01:25:58.840 --> 01:26:01.079
So who knows. I guess,
huh, yeah, it's not you know,

1050
01:26:01.680 --> 01:26:05.039
when we say things like the government
knows, well, the government isn't

1051
01:26:05.039 --> 01:26:11.720
really a thing. So it's not
that it's a poorly worded statement, it's

1052
01:26:11.840 --> 01:26:15.199
there are there. There may be
people who work, you know, for

1053
01:26:15.319 --> 01:26:20.640
the government or military or defense contractors
who may know a few things, but

1054
01:26:20.640 --> 01:26:27.279
but they probably you know, you
probably have several different sets of people.

1055
01:26:27.359 --> 01:26:30.119
Each group knows, you know,
each group is just a handful of people

1056
01:26:30.199 --> 01:26:36.399
who knows one little piece of of
something, and they probably don't communicate and

1057
01:26:36.399 --> 01:26:42.000
probably can't put it all together,
which is really the problem for you know,

1058
01:26:42.640 --> 01:26:46.119
of that's what happens when you do
work like that and you don't collaborate.

1059
01:26:48.119 --> 01:26:50.439
All right, Well, thank you
so much. I think I've had

1060
01:26:50.439 --> 01:26:54.359
some sort of missing time experience because
it's been an hour and a half and

1061
01:26:54.399 --> 01:26:59.000
it feels like, I know,
I can't believe the time lived. Great

1062
01:26:59.079 --> 01:27:00.880
fun. Thank you so much for
having me. Yeah, it's been a

1063
01:27:00.880 --> 01:27:05.640
great time. Thank you so much
for joining. And we'll be in touch.

1064
01:27:06.199 --> 01:27:10.119
And I guess is there a website
or anything that you want to send

1065
01:27:10.159 --> 01:27:15.640
people to look at I have a
website with my research and some of my

1066
01:27:15.720 --> 01:27:19.760
extra planet work. It's at kanouth, which was my last name, k

1067
01:27:19.960 --> 01:27:25.720
n u t H lab l a
b dot dot org and you can go

1068
01:27:25.800 --> 01:27:29.079
there stop by and see what I'm
doing. I don't have any of the

1069
01:27:29.159 --> 01:27:34.239
UFO stuff there yet, I probably
will at some point, all right,

1070
01:27:34.319 --> 01:27:39.560
And it is pronounced kanoth. I
think I've asked you that before. But

1071
01:27:39.640 --> 01:27:43.039
it's funny because I had a meeting, well, we had an su meeting

1072
01:27:43.079 --> 01:27:45.840
and your name came up a couple
of times and things you're helping out with

1073
01:27:45.920 --> 01:27:51.239
and some people say nuth, some
say kanuth uh pronunciation, so the case

1074
01:27:51.279 --> 01:27:57.800
pronounced Okay, great, thank you
so much. And I guess people can

1075
01:27:57.800 --> 01:28:00.880
look on my social media to see
that story from space dot com that you

1076
01:28:00.960 --> 01:28:04.680
were in recently. A great article. I think that was a really good

1077
01:28:04.680 --> 01:28:10.159
one. And if you enjoyed this
interview, please push the like button and

1078
01:28:10.319 --> 01:28:15.359
also subscribe to the channel because if
you subscribe, you'll get notified, especially

1079
01:28:15.520 --> 01:28:17.640
if you hit the little bell whenever
I do these live streams, so you

1080
01:28:17.680 --> 01:28:20.479
can pop in and like I said, the live streams, you can come

1081
01:28:20.600 --> 01:28:26.800
join communicate get involved with us and
ask your questions and interact, and then

1082
01:28:26.920 --> 01:28:30.239
later they do go into the archive. So thank you all for joining us.

1083
01:28:30.279 --> 01:28:33.720
Thank you so much, Kevin,
and we'll be in touch. You

1084
01:28:33.760 --> 01:28:35.680
have a great evening. I thank
you you too,