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Colorado. Abner Marotz is a world champion

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boxer, Olympian sports commentator, and, most importantly, as the two little

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girls he loved by Abuela's and hardcore
fans alike. Abner is a pro at

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entertaining the world both in and out
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On the Hook with Abner Maraz we'll
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athletes, and other people who made
him, the boxer and the man he

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is today. They chat about topics
like the state of boxing, Abner's journey

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from a kid on the streets to
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family life, and so much more. Listen to On the Hook with

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Abner Marris wherever you get your podcasts. Episodes in English are out on Tuesdays,

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and episodes in Spanish are out on
Wednesdays. What is Krakaalakin Hardware Knox

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Listeners. I am Dan's Valley coming
at you without my co host Adam FROMO,

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but we are pleased or I am
pleased as usual to be joined by

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longtime colleague Slash friend Slash reoccurring guests
Slash also a longtime friend of this podcast,

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Bleacher Reports Grant Hughes as always remember
to follow him on Twitter at gt

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Underscore Hughes. Grant, how are
you doing. I'm doing very well under

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the circumstances. Dan. I'm glad
to talk talk with you again. I

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think it's a I don't know how
long it's been, but I always enjoy

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these, so I'm excited to get
to it. I've been bothering you more

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frequently lately, so it's definitely not
as long as it's been as as it

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has been in the past, So
so there's that we are an off season

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mode now, though although I guess
we were there at one point, Like

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this is the second off season,
Like it's kind of weird, like it's

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the it's the off season, off
season, but we also already had the

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off season a little bit and stuff's
gonna start ramping up, like we have

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the draft. We don't have a
scheduled date for free agency, but we

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know it's gonna happen by December first. And I'm you know, I love

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the off season stuff, but this
off season specifically enough to stop myself from

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saying summer because it's almost freaking November
at this point. I'm just I'm like,

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I don't know what the word is, confused or I have zero expectations

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just because I don't know what is
going to happen. Just with the we

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figure the salary cap is gonna be
lateral, but like, how does that

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impact team spending and what are they
gonna do with the luxury tax? Does

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that mean there's gonna be more movement, less movement, more trades, fewer

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trades. I just have no idea
what to expect going away. I'm kind

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of looking forward to it. I
agree. I think, first of all,

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what did we even talk about during
the hiatus, because it felt like

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there was just we did. We
only talk about the off season from like

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March to July when you and I
did. I think you and I did

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a podcast called Fuck the Goat Debate, so like that we did we did

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talk about something like that. Well, then I guess we should be no

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but but but for the for this
offseason. I'm glad you said that because

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I think like it seems like generally, going into an off season, there

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will be a prevailing conventional wisdom I
guess of well, this is a good

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free agent class, or there's x
number of high end free agents, or

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this is a bad free agent class, or you know, we have sort

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of a narrative for it. I
think generally, and this one is just

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kind of like I don't think anybody
really knows. I mean, other than

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we all agree the draft is confusing
and there's not a superstar in it.

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Maybe and then agency is a little
barren and especially compared to twenty one.

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But I think there's so many like
overarching uncertainties with like will teams you knows

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what are teams financial situations and how
does that effect whether they'll even use the

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mL E. So all these guys
we think, well, all that's an

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mL E guy, or that you
know, he's a taxpayer mL E guy,

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Like our team's even gonna use that
because of the tax ramifications and they

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have less revenue. There's just a
bunch of sort of unknowns, and so

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I think that makes this kind of
weirdly one of the more interesting offseasons I

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can remember, just because it seems
kind of, I don't know, unpredictable.

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I guess is the word ideas?
Yeah, look, you like sort

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of alluded to this too. But
when you're looking at whether teams are going

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to use the MLLE or not,
the fact that you probably have I would

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say between twenty to twenty two teams
that are gonna have the same level of

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spending power in the non taxpayer mL
and that there's just not a lot of

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catspace out there. There are going
to be guys invariably who signed for much

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less than we expect. Is that
going to invite shorter contracts because they want

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to get back to free agency quicker? Or you're actually gonna be worried about

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how the coronavirus pandemic really impacts the
long term revenue of this league. And

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you're like, you know what,
let me just lock down my money now

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whatever I could get, because twenty
twenty one seems like it's gonna better,

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twenty twenty two seems like it's going
to be better. But unless I'm Anthony

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Davis, is it actually going to
be better? Yeah? No, I

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think I think you hit on one
key thing is that there's going to be

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a lot of like incredible value short
term contracts signed this I was gonna say

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that this summer because I can't stop
doing that either this offseason, just because

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like there's a finite number of mid
level exceptions that are out there, and

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that number may be much smaller than
we think. And so if you're a

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player that is obviously worth the mL
E in a normal year, suddenly those

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are just gonna kind of get,
you know, taken up, and you

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might be an MLI player that has
to settle for the bi annual or the

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taxpayer or I don't know, minimum
even and maybe an extreme case. It's

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just there's gonna be some big winners. And my guests would be that it's

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teams with that are ready to contend
right now, because all things being equal,

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you're probably gonna want to take your
mid level or whatever from a team

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that has a decent sized role for
you and it's gonna win a bunch of

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games. But but I don't know, that's just that's just kind of my

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gut. Yeah. I mean,
the last thing I'll say this is like

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the progression I've had is wondering,
like, how much more than the mid

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level Paul millsapp is going to get
to thinking like is he gonna end up

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signing for the bi annual, Like
not even the Mini mL at this point,

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but the biannnual. So, like
you said, it's just going to

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be wild and interesting. So,
speaking of that word, we're gonna get

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to what our most interesting teams are
for the offseason. We selected them blindly,

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so there might be overlap, but
we each have weach have pivots.

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We selected five. There might be
some quick hitters if we if we have

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a ton of overlap before we get
to them. Though, I wanted to

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ask about Zach Low had said on
his podcast with Bill Simmons that to keep

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an eye on the Milwaukee Bucks and
the Victor Ladipo sweepstakes, and I've kind

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of been operating under the assumption that
the Basers won't trade Oladipo just because I

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feel like I don't. I feel
like he's not worth that much right now,

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and you probably you have a better
chance of rehabilitating his value leading into

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the trade deadline. At the same
time, I'm sort of curious, like

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how you feel about a potential Bucks
play going after that type of player,

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because if you can buy like low
on someone of his caliber, it seems

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to make sense for the Bucks.
Then again, at the same time,

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like you're probably looking at giving up
Dante di Vincenzo at least one future first

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round pick in addition to the Eric
Bledsoe. And I'd assume that unless Indiana

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really likes him, that he's probably
going somewhere else. And like maybe Atlanta's

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willing to give up like a low
end first to send to Indiana for someone

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like him to take him into their
cap space, and that's why he's more

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accessible than a Drew Holiday. But
knowing what's kind of happened with Oladipo over

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the past two years, if you're
the Bucks, like, is that the

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guy, Like I know you're under
pressure because of Janice's upcoming free agency and

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you want to know whether he's going
to sign a Supermax or not, and

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then if he doesn't, you have
a whole year of speculation. But it's

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only deepo the guy to unload your
asset clip, which relative to other teams

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is not very deep. But like
we're still talking about if you have to

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give up a distant first round pick
up that could you know, go past

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the Jannish years with you, Like
that's obviously not nothing. And so I

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find myself like both I've basically morbidly
curious about the Oladipo to Milwaukee chatter.

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So a couple of things. I
think. I think that for the reasons

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you you mentioned about not wanting to
give up you know, first's way down

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the line or really just potentially post
Yannis, in addition to just not having

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a bunch of like Bloodzow's the salary
that's just gotta go in any how do

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we make the Bucks better? You
know transaction? And like I just don't

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know who is going to say to
themselves? You know, you know who

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really you know makes us significantly better? Is is Eric Bledsoe, Like I

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just that's just not you know he's
a fine player, but it's just not

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that enticing. But as to Oladipo
specifically, I'm not sure he's not he's

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not the guy, but I think
he's a guy and he might be among

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the best guys that the Bucks can
realistically hope to get with what they have.

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But it's sort of like, which
version of Oladipo. If it's like

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seventeen eighteen Oladipo, We're not even
having this conversation obviously, because he's not

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on the table and the Pacers have
already extended him or you know, they'll

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do that at their earliest opportunity.
But he does kind of make some sense,

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right Like he I think if healthy
is on blood Cell's level defensively,

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he might be even more useful because
he's a little longer. I think he

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seems duplicative, because when he was
really good with Indiana a couple of years

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ago, he was just kind of
like, well, he has the ball

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in the middle of the floor thirty
feet from the basket, and he can

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just beat his guy downhill, which
is what Janis does in their system.

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So I'm not sure how that works. But he can run a pick and

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roll his per play efficiency was really
good in the eighties, something of percentile

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as a ball handler a couple of
years ago in his in his kind of

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breakout season, spot up shooting is
fine, which you're gonna need on the

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Bucks thirty nine percent, I think
in seventeen eighteen. But what percentage of

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that guy is he? I don't
know. But if you're telling me it's

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I'm rolling the dice on Oladipo,
who might not be any good anymore and

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might probably will just be gone after
this year. I'm kind of more interested

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in that than Bledsoe and Devincenzo,
honestly, because they are under pressure the

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Bucks are, and Oladipo even if
he isn't what you know he could be,

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even if he falls short of that. I think the other thing you

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look at is you can go to
Giannis and say like, hey, we

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got you, we got you an
all start like this guy, this was

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the best we could do. And
I do think there's value in that.

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But but yeah, I don't know
if he's the guy. I guess,

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but I just don't know, Like, is there someone is who's your guy?

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Like if you are the Bucks and
it's not oladip is there someone out

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there that just is like, well, this is the fix, this is

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what is gonna get us what we
need if we're trying to keep it semi

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realistic, because you could say Bradley
beal easily. But I don't think the

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path to them getting better would be
to give up Chris Middleton in any trade.

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Just on balance for them, I
think it would be Drew Holiday.

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And I don't know if using Bletso
let's say the twenty four pick and then

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de Vincenzo, like, does that
get it done? And like the asset

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that I keep coming back to is
their twenty twenty four first round pick.

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And I've had this conversation with a
bunch of people, probably including you.

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There are certain teams where it feels
like these distant first round picks are so

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valuable, and yet I don't know
that front office is thinking those terms because

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they look at it as well,
we might not be the people using that

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pick. And so how value you
know, in a vacuum a twenty twenty

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four bucks pick if it's loosely protected, knowing that could be posty honest,

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hyper valuable. But if you're a
front office, can you guarantee you're going

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to be in place four drafts from
now. I don't. Maybe Kevin Purchardon

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Indiana believes that he will be so, But aside from like that type of

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situation, I don't know how many
front offices would be inclined to really value

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that for a pick that's not going
to convey for so long unless they think

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they could immediately flip it. And
so I don't know if your package is

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And look, there could be third
teams involved, but I keep coming back

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to Atlanta as a spot for Bledsoe, and that's if they don't want to

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spend their their cap space. He
just seems like a good fit beside Trey

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Young. But aside from getting like
a real like you're not going to get

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one of their young wings for Bledsoe. Maybe Kevin Herder, but I would

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still say no there, you might
get like a lower end first round pick.

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They have that OKC lottery protected twenty
twenty two pick, Like maybe that's

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the pick they give up. That's
the maximum you're getting for Bledsoe. But

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just some permutation of Bletsoe this year's
first after you use it obviously, and

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then Dante DiVincenzo, Is that enough
to get you with Drew Holiday. Is

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he the guy that gets you over
the hump? Is that puts you in

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play for for anyone else? I
don't even you could say that a careis

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Lavert or Spencer dim what. He
makes a ton of sense for this team,

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But that package doesn't make a ton
of sense for Booklyn, a team

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that's also trying to win. Now, Yeah, I think the Bucks are

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just such a I mean, I
don't envy that position, which is crazy

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to say about a team that has
a two time MVP, but their paths

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to getting better just aren't that really, Like, I think I agree that

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Holiday would be great, like he
might be you know, you ask who

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the guy, Vladipo's the guy,
Holiday might be the guy. The problem

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is, I think Holiday is the
guy for like five other teams at least,

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And I think that New Orleans actually
has a pretty good case to just

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want to keep him. I know
I personally have argued several times, Well,

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you think about the timeline not matching
up, and you know they're built

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around Ingram and Zion and you know, Holidays thirty and there's just it doesn't

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make sense they got to trade him. But like, if they do trade

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00:13:52,879 --> 00:13:56,440
him, they're going to have a
bunch of suitors. I think you basically

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any team that has bad salary and
picks, I think is just going to

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00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,679
be involved. And obviously Holiday to
me is a better value and a better

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00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,440
player than Ala Depot right now.
I think maybe, like if the Bucks

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00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:11,000
did get Aladipot, it might be
because the market just isn't that great for

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00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:15,200
him, and that's as good as
Indiana can do, right and they don't

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want to wait like to the trade
deadline and look to the Bucks's credit in

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that situation, He's an expiring contract
and so if you're getting off Pletzel's money

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00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:26,240
in the process, like you could
just kind of look at it. Seltianness

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is not only do we get you
a guy who profiles is an all star

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if he's healthy, but now we
might just have some flexibility moving forward even

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if we don't have the assets.
The only other name that I could really

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00:14:35,159 --> 00:14:39,840
think of for them would be they
seem like a team where zach Lavine would

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00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:45,120
be perfect, like just helicopter him
into that number three spot. You could

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00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,159
have him like cut, you could
have him shoot catch and shoot jumpers.

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But he also gives you that extra
layer of postseason shot creation, because those

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00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:56,159
are the shots that he's making with
the Bulls almost exclusively right now. Yeah,

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00:14:56,159 --> 00:14:58,000
And if you can hide, you
know, you need to hide him

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00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,360
defensively too, And I I think
the Bucks are about as good a place

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as anywhere to do that. I
keep coming back to. I think for

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me, what I hope is that
the Bucks don't play offense the same way

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going forward, and that to me
means you need a guy who's going to

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00:15:13,039 --> 00:15:16,320
be like a primary pick and roll
ball handler that is, you know,

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00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:20,919
orders of magnitude, better at it
than Bledsoe and is a threat to you

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00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:24,120
know, shoot when guys go under
or don't stay glued, you know,

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coming over the top. The problem
is, like, man, that guy's

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hard to find because everybody wants that
guy, because that is like your number

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00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:35,279
one option on most good NBA offenses, but because if you just kind of

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slot in like another you know not. I think Lavine is a fine option,

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but he's not gonna turn, you
honest into you know, a permanent

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00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,240
the best role man in the league, which I think he has the potential

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to be, which is probably to
me, how the Bucks should play.

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00:15:50,679 --> 00:15:52,159
This is me, by the way, saying I know more about how Milwaukee

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00:15:52,159 --> 00:15:58,080
should play than Mike Udenholzer, which
is ridiculous, but just as a spectator,

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that's what I want, and I
think that Again, the Bucks were

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00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,360
not one of my most interesting teams
or one that I intended to talk about,

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but and but like if they were
able to get a guy that could

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00:16:11,039 --> 00:16:15,360
sort of revamp how they play.
Chris Paul is obviously someone that got mentioned

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00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,000
initially, but seems like there's no
way that would happen that would make that,

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00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:22,399
which is which is bullshit because that
seems like a money thing for them.

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00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,960
I'm not saying that. I know
people have mentioned that they can include

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00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:29,879
George Hill and Brook Lopez in perspective
deals. My whole thing is like Chris

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00:16:29,879 --> 00:16:32,879
Paul is really good, but like
you don't want to end up trading like

256
00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,919
three to four rotation players for him, because like that you still come out

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00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,559
maybe your team's a little bit better, but they're definitely more susceptible to one

258
00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:42,840
injury. And so it's what can
you do to sweeten I call it the

259
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:48,840
poopoo platter package of bletso Iliasova Lopez, assuming he picks up his player option

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00:16:48,879 --> 00:16:51,639
in DJ Wilson, Like, that's
the money you need for Chris Paul.

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00:16:51,879 --> 00:16:55,320
Does it take anything else to get
him? Because Bletso is on the books

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00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:59,240
for another like two point five years, since the final year of his contract

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00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:03,440
is only partially guaranteed. I don't
know, but like that's the package I

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would be. You know, you
talk about the guy. The guy you

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just described is Chris Paul. What
can you attach to that package? Does

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number twenty four do it? Is
that too much? It's Dante DiVincenzo too

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much for you? I don't think
either asset would be a deal breaker for

268
00:17:15,759 --> 00:17:19,160
me, both of them together.
Uh, definitely might be for me.

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Definitely might be. There's a there's
a turn of freeze for you, but

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like that should be with Jannest approaching
free agency. These you know, the

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team governors claiming like, yeah,
we'll pay, we'll pay the tax if

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we have to. But like you
let Malcolm Brogdon go. And I know

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people thought that was made too much
of in the moment, but it's been

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00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:37,720
proven that he wasn't just a luxury
for them. And so if you have

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00:17:37,759 --> 00:17:42,079
a chance to get Chris Paul and
it's not costing you more than that poop

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00:17:42,079 --> 00:17:45,480
poop platter package than one like sort
of minor asset. I'm not trading my

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00:17:45,559 --> 00:17:49,559
twenty twenty four pick for Chris Paul. I'm doing it like and that should

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00:17:49,559 --> 00:17:53,000
be the I think the report from
the Athletic is saying the Bucks aren't interested

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00:17:53,039 --> 00:17:56,920
in that because of the money.
But like, you have a chance to

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00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:00,799
add someone whose second team All NBA
last year and who probably owned he gets

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00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,880
better when you project him onto the
Eastern Conference. That's absolutely wild to me

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00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:10,680
that it would be something you wouldn't
do. But of course money obviously matters,

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00:18:10,759 --> 00:18:12,640
even though in this case he really
shouldn't. You know, this is

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00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,799
a sort of a tangent. But
every time so I've been having a really

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00:18:15,799 --> 00:18:19,680
hard time evaluating what Chris Paul's value
is because he did have such a good

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00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:23,160
year and he does sort of seem
like a fix for like anyone that needs

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00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:30,359
offensive stewardship and just general like you
know, control. But I don't know

288
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,880
if I swear I see packages of
well, it's gonna cost you picks to

289
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,480
get off of Chris Paul, or
no, actually it's gonna cost the other

290
00:18:37,519 --> 00:18:40,960
team picks because that's what OKC wants
and that's a plausible trade. I just

291
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,200
don't I don't know what his value
is. But what it makes me think

292
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:48,559
all the time is why aren't all
the teams that you see linked in rumors

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00:18:48,559 --> 00:18:52,039
to Chris Paul just kicking down the
Raptors door for Kyle Lowry instead, Because

294
00:18:52,519 --> 00:18:56,400
that's a one that's an expiring deal. And it may just be because Toronto

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00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,400
is like, no, he's gonna
retire here and then we're going to build

296
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:04,759
a statue. But to me,
Lowry might be the guy for the books

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00:19:04,799 --> 00:19:08,599
as I think about more, because
there's a guy like, there's your guy

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00:19:08,599 --> 00:19:11,599
who's just gonna kind of, you
know, when things start to look a

299
00:19:11,599 --> 00:19:15,400
little dicey in the second round again
next year and then here we go again,

300
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,519
talk starts. Lowry is the guy
that's gonna say no, no,

301
00:19:17,519 --> 00:19:19,200
no, like, here's how it's
gonna go, and he's gonna fix it.

302
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:25,079
I just he shouldn't cost as much
as Paul to get just because he's

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00:19:25,079 --> 00:19:29,160
a rental. But again, I
admit, I don't know what Paul's value

304
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:30,839
should be, But I just think
Lowry should be talked about a little more

305
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:34,279
because he kind of fixes everything for
almost any team. He goes too well.

306
00:19:34,319 --> 00:19:38,000
I think the two things there is
that he probably does cost you more

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00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,880
in my mind because he's quote unquote
a rental or at least an expiring contract,

308
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,000
where with Chris Paul, it's like, you have two years and eighty

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00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,559
five point six million dollars that you
have to pay him, and so like

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00:19:48,599 --> 00:19:52,200
that's a to pay him forty four
point two million dollars in the final year

311
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,799
of that deal, Like that's a
ton of money. And the other thing

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00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,519
here is that Toronto for now,
like maybe Lowry becomes the guy for a

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00:20:00,519 --> 00:20:03,599
lot of teams or more gettable if
they're not trying to win, but they

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00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,920
just came within one victory of the
Eastern Conference finals, and it's like,

315
00:20:07,559 --> 00:20:10,759
why would they move him right now? In my mind, he's an expiring

316
00:20:10,799 --> 00:20:14,319
contracts. He's not harshing their flexibility. They're not going to tank next year

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00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,000
no matter what they're doue or at
least they don't think they will. If

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00:20:17,039 --> 00:20:19,680
they end up losing fred Van Fleet
Abaka and Gasol in free agency and they

319
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,920
don't want to sign anyone else with
resulting cap space or whatever, then yeah,

320
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,880
I totally get it. But Chris
Paul plays for a team that doesn't

321
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,519
seem to be tracking with his timeline
anymore, and that plus the extra year

322
00:20:30,559 --> 00:20:34,680
I think just makes him eminently more
available and then cheaper by extension. And

323
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,839
I'm with you, I don't really
know what his value is. We've definitely

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00:20:37,839 --> 00:20:41,960
moved past. I believe that they
have to attach something too Chris Paul to

325
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,839
get rid of him. And it's
also just, in hindsight weird that that

326
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,160
was ever really a thing, knowing
how good he was this year. However,

327
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:52,039
it's like, are they actually gonna
get even like a semi good young

328
00:20:52,079 --> 00:20:55,000
player or a low end pick for
him when he's owed that much money,

329
00:20:55,079 --> 00:20:57,240
or if they can just get some
cheaper contracts most of them expiring, Like

330
00:20:57,279 --> 00:21:00,319
that's the package you just pulled a
trigger on. Yeah, I just don't

331
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,240
know. I don't know. It
just made me think a lowry And obviously

332
00:21:03,279 --> 00:21:07,640
the answer to why isn't Lowry coming
up more is because he is really good

333
00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:11,400
and a really huge value on that
contract. Still, so that makes I

334
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:15,440
think you answered my question. Even
though sports had a break, your business,

335
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,640
didn't you have to keep moving And
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conditions of by offer valid through December
thirty. First, talk about a tangent

351
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,920
we can get into our most interesting
teams this offseason. Now, there was

352
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,880
no criteria for this. It's just
for whatever reason, we find them intriguing.

353
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,920
And so, as the guest extraordinaire, who is your first team?

354
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:37,720
I think it's pretty predictable because so
this I picked the Warriors, and that's

355
00:22:37,759 --> 00:22:44,680
because to me, obviously, it's
rare to have a theoretical contender picking second

356
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,799
in a draft and having all these
all this you know, injury related,

357
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,960
comeback unknown stuff. They got to
fill out a roster. They got these

358
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:56,079
weird uh you know, they got
Andrew Wiggins contract, They have that seventeen

359
00:22:56,119 --> 00:23:00,599
point two million traded player exception.
They have Minnesota's top three protected twenty twenty

360
00:23:00,599 --> 00:23:04,599
one first, they have all these
I don't know what I call them options,

361
00:23:04,599 --> 00:23:10,240
but they've got these tools to really
theoretically change the roster. And they're

362
00:23:10,279 --> 00:23:14,240
different than most of these other teams
because the clock is sort of ticking like

363
00:23:14,319 --> 00:23:17,559
that that tpe goes away, right, They have, you know, use

364
00:23:17,599 --> 00:23:19,880
it or lose it. And the
draft is another sort of time constraint is

365
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:25,640
if you're gonna move this number two
pick, time clocks ticking on that too.

366
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:29,960
So they are the ones I think
that have sort of maximum urgency time

367
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:36,200
wise, and certainly because their core
is on the absolute backpack end, I

368
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:41,000
think of their primes, so there's
urgency there too. So to me,

369
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:45,240
for all the reasons I've and all
the things I just mentioned and kind of

370
00:23:45,279 --> 00:23:48,359
a you know, dump it all
out at once manner, I think they're

371
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,480
my most interesting offseason team, and
I have absolutely no idea what they're going

372
00:23:52,519 --> 00:23:56,480
to do with any of those tools. Like there's a million guys they could

373
00:23:56,519 --> 00:24:00,519
go after with the TP. There's
a bunch of options with that number two

374
00:24:00,519 --> 00:24:04,160
pick, whether they use it or
not. So they're just kind of fascinating

375
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,519
to me. I don't know which
way you want to take it. Do

376
00:24:06,519 --> 00:24:08,119
you want to do you want to
do the TPE first and talk about that

377
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,920
because it is kind of related to
that second pick. They're probably enough to

378
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,240
package of those, right or they're
gonna have to like do trade the TP

379
00:24:15,599 --> 00:24:18,880
for or I say trade the TPA
would take like a James Johnson into the

380
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,559
TP, so that they could acquire
a more expensive player with James Johnson and

381
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:26,200
they would have with the the TP, which is going to be more stringent,

382
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:30,759
I think, So I'm with you. I have the Warriors on my

383
00:24:30,799 --> 00:24:33,359
list too, because they have so
many moving parts and the traded player exception

384
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,039
is a good place to start,
because I think these traded player exceptions are

385
00:24:37,079 --> 00:24:41,519
normally overvalued because teams don't. Yes, players get sent into traded these tps

386
00:24:41,559 --> 00:24:45,319
all the time, but like it's
part of these like staggered deals where those

387
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,000
like other moving parts. It's very
rarely do you just get a good player

388
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,839
in it for TP. Maybe that's
the summer where there's the offseason excuse me

389
00:24:52,839 --> 00:24:59,319
where this changes because so many teams
are hard up after the gate revenue losses,

390
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,359
or because as they have that second
pick, like it's just such a

391
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,640
convenient package. It's you don't really
have to give regard for salary. If

392
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:08,279
you see a player, you like, there's the TPE and that pick,

393
00:25:08,319 --> 00:25:11,160
and like that's the deal. Or
you can turn again the TP into like

394
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:15,920
an expensive expiring contract and use that
as the framework. Like one example would

395
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,359
be like number two and James Johnson
for Aaron Gordon. Like let's say the

396
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:25,000
lawyers get James Johnson for the TPE
or even accuse Gorky Jang from Memphis,

397
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,759
and they send that expiring contract to
Orlando with the number two pick for Aaron

398
00:25:26,799 --> 00:25:30,119
Gordon. People that I've mentioned this
too. I think that that's an overpay

399
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:34,039
for Aaron Gordon the number two picks, So maybe Orlando gives you where they

400
00:25:34,039 --> 00:25:37,200
have number fifteen in the draft,
so maybe they give you that back as

401
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:42,480
well. Like those types of deals, like they seem like they just seem

402
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:48,559
they're they're more possible now, like
this TV means something again under the circumstances.

403
00:25:48,599 --> 00:25:51,920
But also because the Warriors have that
pick to attach, right, and

404
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:56,519
I think it is it's a weird
situation, right because so my pres I

405
00:25:56,559 --> 00:26:00,039
think, I think the smart move
and maybe this is just me being kind

406
00:26:00,039 --> 00:26:03,079
of risk averse, is I would
want to use that number two pick.

407
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:07,279
I know, I know nobody thinks, and it'd probably be on James Wiseman,

408
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,839
who, like I can't remember the
last prospect that might go second that

409
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:17,759
we knew less about. But but
like I like the idea of let's get

410
00:26:17,759 --> 00:26:22,960
this guy who's maybe a bridge to
the next era. We're gonna need a

411
00:26:22,039 --> 00:26:27,039
center because Nikolayokich cannot be guarded by
Dramond Green in a playoff series the whole

412
00:26:27,079 --> 00:26:32,319
time. Kavon Looney can play twenty
minutes a night. Maybe, so you

413
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:33,799
need a big guy, which is
kind of fun to me. Now,

414
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,039
like the NBA is is, I
guess the big Guy's not totally dead if

415
00:26:37,039 --> 00:26:41,079
you have Anthony Davis and Yokich and
to a much lesser extent, zoobots in

416
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:45,599
the same conference that you're trying to
get through. But if you do use

417
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,920
that number two pick, then I
don't know why anybody wants anything to do

418
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:53,160
with that TPE. You know,
if you if you use it to get

419
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,200
James Johnson, what are you sent
or what are you sending to Minnesota for

420
00:26:56,319 --> 00:27:00,279
James Johnson or whatever? You know, the expiring salary of your choice.

421
00:27:00,319 --> 00:27:03,759
Johnson's one of the best. But
are you sending a future second or like

422
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,920
I just something small if anything,
because I think that's like a money saving

423
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,119
move. But who wants to do
the Warriors a favor? Is the other

424
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,240
thing? Well, that's that's definitely
a fair question. So it gets really

425
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,000
complicated if you aren't viewing the TPE
and that second pick as a package,

426
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,480
because then, like you said,
then you're talking. And that's what's rare

427
00:27:21,519 --> 00:27:23,720
about this one is normally it is
that situation of like, well, what

428
00:27:23,759 --> 00:27:26,799
do we want this? We don't
want to give you this expiring salary for

429
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,920
like a future second Why do we
want to do that. We'll trade him

430
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,559
for a first round or at the
deadline or something. You know, that's

431
00:27:33,559 --> 00:27:36,319
how it used to be anyway.
So I just I don't know. I

432
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:41,640
think Daron Gordon thing he's literally the
first guy on my list of TPE options,

433
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,079
just because I think he's come up
the most often, and not just

434
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,599
in relation to this. I feel
like the Warriors have always been linked to

435
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,200
him. But there's a bunch of
other, you know, not necessarily needle

436
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:56,000
moving type of options, unless you
think the Celtics for some reason would move

437
00:27:56,039 --> 00:28:00,559
Marcus Smart or you could do the
James Johnson roundabout thing and try to go

438
00:28:00,599 --> 00:28:04,880
get Miles Turner, which is super
pie in the sky. I just I

439
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,000
don't know. Gordon seems like the
guy to me, but but I don't.

440
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,759
You know, Kelly Ubre, maybe
you swap picks with the Suns and

441
00:28:11,799 --> 00:28:15,039
you do Ubre for the TPE,
which I don't think you'd have to.

442
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,480
Maybe you would have to do the
preliminary trade to do that. I forget

443
00:28:18,519 --> 00:28:25,240
exactly what. Yeah, so you're
good, But like if that's the Warriors

444
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,640
big offseason move man, that's not
enough, and that's kind of gets into

445
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:33,119
the next thing of can you get
anything for Wiggins? And then you're packaging.

446
00:28:33,279 --> 00:28:37,799
You have to be talking about package
packaging Wiggins and the Wolves twenty twenty

447
00:28:37,799 --> 00:28:44,000
one. Is that getting you beal? I kind of doubt it. Maybe

448
00:28:44,279 --> 00:28:45,559
I don't know. With a bunch
of other stuff throwing in, is that

449
00:28:45,599 --> 00:28:49,880
getting you holiday? I think that's
a little closer. But the other thing

450
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,440
is, well, maybe let's leave
it at that. Are you what are

451
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,599
your thoughts on Wiggins as a trade
piece and that other pick, which I

452
00:28:56,599 --> 00:29:00,440
think is to me is significantly more
valuable than this year's number two. So

453
00:29:00,599 --> 00:29:04,400
I think I had you on for
the trade deadline grades and I crapped all

454
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:11,119
over the Warriors making the Wiggins deal. I may have come around on it

455
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:15,599
a little bit where if it's framed
as what is getting you further in trade

456
00:29:15,599 --> 00:29:18,119
offers right now DeAngelo Russell and number
two pick, or if you have Andrew

457
00:29:18,119 --> 00:29:22,160
Wiggins the number two pick and that
Minnesota pick, I think it's the latter

458
00:29:22,599 --> 00:29:25,839
is going to net you more.
So I'm not sure where I land on

459
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:30,599
Andrew Wiggins is a trade asset specifically, other than the fact that him plus

460
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,640
those two other picks is more intriguing
to me than DeAngelo Russell plus the number

461
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,559
two pick. Yeah, I think
that's right. I wish I could remember

462
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,160
what I said. That sounds like
something I might have said the time,

463
00:29:41,559 --> 00:29:45,680
but I don't remember. It was
a lot harder to you at the time

464
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,839
because we didn't know where the Warriors
were gonna end up in the lottery,

465
00:29:48,319 --> 00:29:55,559
and so that changes things a little
bit. But I just having that Minnesota

466
00:29:55,599 --> 00:29:56,920
pick ends up being a big deal
because I don't think they're gonna be great

467
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,519
next year when you just look at
the landscape of the Western co friends and

468
00:30:00,039 --> 00:30:03,160
I run counter to you, though
before I like you carry on with what

469
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,400
you're gonna say is I don't want
them to use this pick because unless you

470
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:11,680
think Anthony Edwards is the guy to
bridge you into the future, I don't

471
00:30:11,759 --> 00:30:14,440
like the other two options there.
You know, you mentioned James Wiseman.

472
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,440
A lot of people are high on
him, but everyone except for Zubots that

473
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,720
you named whim talking about big swarre
back, James Wiseman doesn't profile as someone

474
00:30:19,759 --> 00:30:23,640
who could defend any of them,
which is a problem for me. And

475
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:29,200
then right, but I don't think
Aaron Gordon is going to give you a

476
00:30:29,279 --> 00:30:33,039
better chance against Anthony Davis long term
than James Wiseman would be just my counter.

477
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:37,640
Like you have Draymond Green and Aaron
Gordon, I think are two guys

478
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,640
that you can throw at Anthony Davis
and feel pretty good about it immediately.

479
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,599
And so if you're looking at contending
with the Lakers, like that's something you

480
00:30:45,119 --> 00:30:48,559
have to consider. And I'm not
saying that Gordon definitely needs to be worth

481
00:30:48,559 --> 00:30:51,440
the number two pick. I think
in this draft. I'm not a LaMelo

482
00:30:51,519 --> 00:30:56,240
guy either, so I would probably
do it for an expiring contract and number

483
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,079
two if I'm Golden State, definitely
would do it if you can get number

484
00:30:59,079 --> 00:31:03,880
fifteen from Orlando was part of that
deal as well. I'm just not high

485
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,839
on this draft. And like,
even if you are believer that LaMelo could

486
00:31:06,839 --> 00:31:08,200
be the bridges of the future,
I don't really see how you set him

487
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,240
up to do that on this roster
when it was so difficult for you to

488
00:31:11,279 --> 00:31:15,319
make it work with D'Angelo Russell,
when you didn't even really have Steph available,

489
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,000
and like now you're gonna have Steff
available, and you're gonna have someone

490
00:31:18,039 --> 00:31:23,359
who's just worse than D'Angel Russell because
he's a rookie so and he's certainly more

491
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:27,000
erratic than deangel Russell is. Again, just be looking at this stage of

492
00:31:27,559 --> 00:31:30,680
his career. So if Annie Edwards
is there and you really want him,

493
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,599
like, then maybe I consider keeping
it. But just looking at the other

494
00:31:33,599 --> 00:31:37,799
options if you really want to use
this caliber of pick, I'm sort of

495
00:31:37,839 --> 00:31:41,640
looking at trading down, Like is
Charlotte gonna give you? I don't think

496
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,119
you'll give you Davante Graham to move
up once? Bob, would they give

497
00:31:44,119 --> 00:31:48,480
you Miles Bridges? Like you know
you want to do something with Terry Rozier

498
00:31:48,799 --> 00:31:52,480
there, like where there's another step
ladder scenario where it's James Johnson. I'm

499
00:31:52,519 --> 00:31:56,319
at number two for Terry Rozier and
number three, Like maybe that's something I

500
00:31:56,319 --> 00:32:00,599
would would consider. But I'm against
the Warriors using the number two pick unless

501
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:05,000
unless Anty Edwards is there and they
believe he's the guy. Yeah, see,

502
00:32:05,039 --> 00:32:07,680
I think I should I should be
clear. I don't think. I

503
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:12,920
don't think I don't want any part
of ball or Edwards on this Warrior's team

504
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:17,599
particularly, but and Wiseman obviously,
Like anytime I talk about Wiseman. I'm

505
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:22,720
sort of thinking of him as if
he's going to hit the you know,

506
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:29,880
ninetieth percentile of his you know,
potential spectrum potential outcomes, like the version

507
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:35,000
of Wiseman that is actually incredibly nimble
for his size and it is just a

508
00:32:35,079 --> 00:32:37,519
nuclear athlete. I think that's pretty
well accepted that he is just an incredible

509
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:45,319
like size, speed, strength,
bounce combination, a guy like the guy

510
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,759
you know, if he's that,
if he's if he's just the one of

511
00:32:47,799 --> 00:32:52,160
the five best athletes at the position
in the league. And I do think

512
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:53,960
he is kind of your not your
answer, but he gives you a fighting

513
00:32:54,039 --> 00:32:58,759
chance against some of the bigger guys
in the West. But to your point,

514
00:32:59,359 --> 00:33:02,240
I think trading down or if they
do trade this pick, it's kind

515
00:33:02,279 --> 00:33:07,079
of sneakily really important for them to
get. You know, it doesn't really

516
00:33:07,119 --> 00:33:09,359
matter so much where it is,
but something in the you know, if

517
00:33:09,359 --> 00:33:13,599
it's not Charlotte's say, like you
know, six to fifteen or something,

518
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,519
because there are kind of a lot
of guys that profile as three in D

519
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:21,480
role players, and you know,
quietly, the Warriors don't really have a

520
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,400
lot of those, and they need
they need Wiggins to be that guy,

521
00:33:24,599 --> 00:33:29,680
right, Clay Thompson with the fair
amount of question marks with a major injury,

522
00:33:30,079 --> 00:33:35,759
and Wiggins is like alarmingly important to
the team because he theoretically could be

523
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,240
the defensive end of that. I
don't know how, you know, that's

524
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,039
the role he's in. I don't
know if he's gonna be able to do

525
00:33:40,079 --> 00:33:43,799
that. But if they can trade
down and get one of those, you

526
00:33:43,839 --> 00:33:49,279
know, any number of Devin Vassal
or like Patrick Williams or probably a Kora

527
00:33:49,359 --> 00:33:52,400
would be gone. But depending on
how far they trade it down. But

528
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:57,160
that's like, that's huge for them
because that guy's probably gonna play, or

529
00:33:57,359 --> 00:33:59,720
you know, you hope he can
play, because they're just so thin at

530
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:05,240
that position. Right, And so
maybe I'm under selling James Wiseman's switchability just

531
00:34:05,279 --> 00:34:07,400
off the based off the preliminary stuff
I've seen of him, there's definitely like

532
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,840
the movement there. I would question, like is his offensive range ever going

533
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:15,639
to develop? I'm just so hesitant
to even use such a top pick on

534
00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:19,239
a big right now. Maybe this
draft class kind of justifies it, but

535
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,119
I'm I'm team move the pick,
like move it in some form, and

536
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:27,840
you mentioned it like, you know, if you wanted to, I would

537
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:29,880
say, if you want to take
a swing on one of those three d

538
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:31,599
guys at number two, Like,
if you're that gutsy, then maybe I

539
00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:36,119
might even support that more than just
default thing to Anthony Edwards, lamel Ball

540
00:34:36,119 --> 00:34:39,519
and Dames Wiseman or who's ever there. So it's such a complicated situation.

541
00:34:39,639 --> 00:34:43,960
But then the flip side of this
is how are other teams valuing the number

542
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,639
two pick? Which is why I'm
gonna throw some trade scenarios at you,

543
00:34:46,679 --> 00:34:50,840
and I want to see what you
think of them. Okay, are you

544
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:52,159
ready? Are you bracing ready?
I'm excited? All right? So you

545
00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:57,559
mentioned Miles Turner already. If you
can do Miles Turner and an expiring contract

546
00:34:57,639 --> 00:35:01,440
four number two, who's saying no
to that? So the Warriors are getting

547
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:07,599
Turner and and what they're getting Turner
for number two? They're getting Turner for

548
00:35:07,639 --> 00:35:12,159
number two, And then they would
have to like, let's say the quote

549
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,360
unquote TV you got yeah, I
do that in a heartbeat if i'd the

550
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:19,599
Warriors, I don't, I don't. I don't think twice would the Pacers

551
00:35:19,639 --> 00:35:23,559
consider that? I don't think So, I mean I think to me like

552
00:35:23,639 --> 00:35:29,599
Turner is a way for you to
try to go. I think I might

553
00:35:29,639 --> 00:35:31,280
be maybe you're with me. I
don't know. I feel like Turner is

554
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:37,000
super valuable and that may be more
just about thinking about him in theory than

555
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:39,199
you know, his production, which
hasn't been super great. But a guy

556
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:44,079
that can block shots and and I
think you know, the volume hasn't really

557
00:35:44,119 --> 00:35:45,960
been there, but can spread the
floor and shoot threes. There's just aren't

558
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:50,519
a lot of those guys. And
I think, especially with Draymond Green playing

559
00:35:50,519 --> 00:35:52,519
the four, you could your five's
got to be able to space. Like

560
00:35:52,599 --> 00:35:55,960
that's just that's just how it's gonna
have to work if the Warriors are going

561
00:35:57,039 --> 00:36:00,960
to be any good. I'm not
sure. So if you're Indie, you're

562
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:07,679
doing that to take either Ball or
Edwards whoever's still there after Minnesota picks.

563
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:12,800
So you're sort of trading Turner for
theoretically your your lead guard of the future,

564
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:15,119
right, And I mean Veka turn
around and said aulsewhere But like they're

565
00:36:15,119 --> 00:36:20,760
also a team that's done a pretty
good job of straddling the present with the

566
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,159
future, Like I could see like
you would still I think with brog in

567
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:29,039
there still having Sabonis like you can
have that, like make that deal and

568
00:36:29,039 --> 00:36:30,800
then still be a playoff team in
the Eastern Conference, and you might be

569
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,199
able to talk to yourself into saying, well, one, maybe go go

570
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,280
patads can give you more minutes next
year, or can we approximate at least,

571
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:42,480
you know, part of Turner's offense
and defense for a lot cheaper on

572
00:36:42,519 --> 00:36:44,880
the free agency market. And I'm
not saying that you could, but like

573
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,119
what happens if you, you know, you go out and you get like

574
00:36:47,159 --> 00:36:51,199
a does does the mid level get
you? Serge Ibaka this year? Does

575
00:36:51,199 --> 00:36:53,559
it get you? You know?
Can you even Chris Bouchet like in Fear,

576
00:36:53,679 --> 00:36:57,360
just a shot blocking machine who was
showing it his bace of floor a

577
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,639
little bit. My other scenario that
I was going to throw at you,

578
00:36:59,679 --> 00:37:02,119
though, would be like the I
don't know if it would constitute a Pacers

579
00:37:02,199 --> 00:37:06,920
reset because of how good they've been
with whatever wings come into their system,

580
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:12,400
but the money would be and this
works. It's Andrew Wiggins number two,

581
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,039
the Minnesota pick, and I think
Jordan Pool Cavon Looney has to be in

582
00:37:16,119 --> 00:37:22,199
there. So Cavon Looney Andrew Wiggins
number two, the Minnesota pick for Oladipo

583
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:28,920
and Miles Turner. Oh, you
know I'm doing that if I'm the Warriors,

584
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:34,360
just because I think Turner is so
important and such a fit, and

585
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,599
I think that am I doing that? That's a good trade If I'm having

586
00:37:37,599 --> 00:37:43,639
to ask that question more than once, are we sure Indiana wants to do

587
00:37:43,679 --> 00:37:45,360
that? So that was my thing. Andrew Wiggins is three years and ninety

588
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:50,239
four point eight million dollars left on
his deal. I think this package becomes

589
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,679
a lot more palatable if you have
no intention of paying Victor Ladippo the money

590
00:37:53,679 --> 00:37:57,840
he wants. I'm not saying Andrew
Wiggins replaces him, but you look at

591
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:02,199
how Wings have just outperformed expectations on
both ends of the floor since going to

592
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:06,119
Indie, Like you look at what
TJ. Warren did last year, you

593
00:38:06,159 --> 00:38:08,840
look at what Boyon Bogdanovitch did there
even justin holiday like turning into this guy

594
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:13,400
with and guard backup. Four is
if you're confident in your program, and

595
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,760
I know you have a new head
coach now, and maybe that sort of

596
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:21,920
factors into that equation where you maybe
don't know how scalable that system, those

597
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,079
principles are with having Nate I'm going
to butcher this, but Jorkin like,

598
00:38:25,199 --> 00:38:30,320
there, that's a concern. So
that Andrew Wiggins being like this net minus

599
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:35,559
of a contract like certainly hurts you. There. I would you know,

600
00:38:35,639 --> 00:38:38,159
you could throw in Golden State's own
pick next year as well, Like depending

601
00:38:38,199 --> 00:38:42,960
on when you're timing this trade,
like you could go the number two pick,

602
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,840
Golden State's pick next year and the
Minnesota pick and then for Turner and

603
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:51,519
Oladipo with Wiggins and Kevon Looney.
Like maybe that's something that's more palatable,

604
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:53,880
but it's tough for me to escape
the feeling that that still kind of feels

605
00:38:53,880 --> 00:39:00,480
like a reset for Indie because where
does like your cores then Sabonus, Malcolm

606
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:05,119
Brogden, T J Warren, Andrew
Wiggins, and then like you have those

607
00:39:05,159 --> 00:39:07,519
picks. It's like where does that
really put you? In the East?

608
00:39:08,079 --> 00:39:13,639
I think too. Indiana is one
of the most historically tax averse teams in

609
00:39:13,679 --> 00:39:15,039
the league, and if you not
that, they'd be in it. But

610
00:39:15,119 --> 00:39:20,239
having Wiggins on your roster just makes
everything harder, you know, just having

611
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,159
that having that salary, I think, but like, look, so you

612
00:39:23,199 --> 00:39:29,360
still have Sabonus, you you have
Brogden, you have whoever you take it

613
00:39:29,519 --> 00:39:32,280
too, and you got I'm with
you. I think that Minnesota pick could

614
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:36,400
potentially be huge. Well, it
might be too valuable because it might be

615
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:38,519
top three, and the protections might
you know, might keep it from you.

616
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:43,559
But actually, forget if that converts
or what it converts into. I

617
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:45,840
think it might. Well, I
don't know. I don't want to speak

618
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:47,320
on it if I'm not sure.
We can look it up in a second,

619
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:52,039
but I don't know. To me, Indy says no, which is

620
00:39:52,119 --> 00:39:55,920
kind of nuts, thinking you get
a number two and a potentially super valuable

621
00:39:57,119 --> 00:40:00,920
first the next year. But yeah, I don't know. For the from

622
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:04,960
the warrior's perspective, I mean,
that solves a lot of problems. It

623
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,360
makes them a lot deeper, It
gives them another defensive wing if all depos

624
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:10,920
is healthy. And Turner again is
just like a perfect fit. So yeah,

625
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:15,239
I like that. I think I
like that too, would you do?

626
00:40:15,679 --> 00:40:21,639
It's basically so Andrew Wiggins and Kevon
Looney and number two plus the Minnesota

627
00:40:21,679 --> 00:40:28,920
pick for Drew Holliday and JJ Reddick. That feels like, I don't know

628
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:30,480
why, it feels like too much
for those two guys, but not too

629
00:40:30,559 --> 00:40:35,360
much for Aladipo on turn Well,
so the thing for me would be that

630
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:37,800
Drew Holliday is probably going to be
a free agent twenty twenty one, and

631
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:42,320
then JJ Reddick is expiring, and
so it's like, yes, you're getting

632
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:46,920
off the Wiggins contract, but to
use your two best trade chips on guys

633
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:51,760
who are going to be entering free
agency, it feels like risky for that.

634
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:53,599
And so I'm wondering, like,
Okay, what if they were willing

635
00:40:53,599 --> 00:40:58,920
to move Josh Hart in that deal? Or can you get that like if

636
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,039
you remove the number like what's more
important New Orleans? The number two pick

637
00:41:01,159 --> 00:41:05,599
or that Minnesota pick? Like can
you get just Holiday for one of those

638
00:41:05,639 --> 00:41:08,440
picks and Andrew Wiggins? Like let's
remove all under Andrew Wiggins, Let's remove

639
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:14,360
all of their moving parts. If
it's one of those picks and Andrew Wiggins

640
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:16,199
for Drew Holiday, and there I
think there would have to be other money

641
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:21,639
involved, just because Andrew Wiggins makes
so much money. Yeah, that would

642
00:41:21,679 --> 00:41:23,960
actually work out. It's pretty close
though. Holidays Holiday is close enough,

643
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,800
I think, yeah, But the
Warriors would be saving money in that deal,

644
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,599
So I'm assuming they have to take
something back from New Orleans. But

645
00:41:30,639 --> 00:41:32,559
New Orleans isn't really close to the
tax they don't really have. They're not

646
00:41:32,599 --> 00:41:37,079
just going to throw in Josh Hart
to save money. Maybe it's like they

647
00:41:37,079 --> 00:41:39,280
probably still like Nicole o Milly,
so like that would work. Is it

648
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:44,880
straight up just holiday for one of
those picks and Andrew Wiggins. I question

649
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:50,880
then whether that's enough for New Orleans
just because Holiday is so good. Yes,

650
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,199
he's expiring, but that's almost preferable
to having three years of Andrew Wiggins

651
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:58,840
at ninety four point seven million.
Well, a lot of things are preferable

652
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:01,000
to that. Like, you know, New Orleans wasn't one of my teams,

653
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:06,920
but they're really interesting because the answer, so the question you have to

654
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,039
ask when thinking about that kind of
trade is where does New Orleans think it

655
00:42:09,159 --> 00:42:13,840
is, you know, in terms
of its growth trajectory. And I mean

656
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:17,159
obviously that affects any holiday trade because
if they think they're ready now, you

657
00:42:17,159 --> 00:42:21,880
know, if they think that late
season run, you know, forget the

658
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,559
bubble because that didn't go well.
But if they think they're kind of ready

659
00:42:24,599 --> 00:42:28,119
to maybe be the fifth or sixth
seed in the West, which is a

660
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:30,679
pretty big ask to you know,
based on how much better the West stands

661
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:36,000
to be next year. Then I
don't know. I think that really they're

662
00:42:36,159 --> 00:42:40,480
sort of where they view themselves in
their development, I think matters, and

663
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:44,920
like, look, this is a
little bit hot taky, but to me,

664
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,639
like, I'm pretty sure Zion Williamson's
best years are going to come before

665
00:42:47,639 --> 00:42:52,719
he's twenty five, and I think
after that, maybe you're in trouble.

666
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:57,360
So the where their window, the
sort of the location of their window might

667
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:01,400
not be exactly where the age of
their best players suggests it is, because

668
00:43:01,679 --> 00:43:05,199
I just don't have a lot of
confidence that Zion is going to be a

669
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:09,559
good late twenties player. So I
don't know. Maybe that speaks to just

670
00:43:10,079 --> 00:43:14,639
let's hang on to Holiday and let's
see what we got. But it's interesting

671
00:43:14,679 --> 00:43:19,320
you mentioned both of those teams Indian
New Orleans because I think half the time

672
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,280
I'm looking at trades that I like
from both sides, it almost always involves

673
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:27,119
Turner going to the Pelicans and Holiday
going back to Indiana because I want a

674
00:43:27,119 --> 00:43:31,400
holiday reunion number one. Yeah,
I mean they got to resign justin too,

675
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:36,440
But but also because I think Turner
makes a lot of sense next to

676
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:38,880
Zion. Yeah, he makes a
ton of sense there. I mean really,

677
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:43,480
any stretch big just makes so much
sense next to Zion. Yeah,

678
00:43:43,519 --> 00:43:45,880
they should make a play for Abaca
too, come to think of it,

679
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,920
Yeah, he would be good.
I guess even if you want to go

680
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:52,679
smaller like millsapp would work there.
At this point, just I've even said,

681
00:43:52,679 --> 00:43:55,440
like Chris Bruche and zionis it would
be interesting to me. Chris Bruche

682
00:43:55,599 --> 00:44:00,760
is like, yeah, like he's
up there for me. The weight is

683
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:05,920
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684
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686
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693
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book experts. Two more ones that
are quick. We've already mentioned one of

694
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:50,519
them. So if it was Aaron
Gordon in number fifteen for number two and

695
00:44:50,559 --> 00:44:54,079
then again the TPE in quotes like
we're saying you're acquiring another expiring contract that

696
00:44:54,119 --> 00:44:58,440
you just moved with the number two
pick? Are you doing that? You

697
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:00,639
know which of those two teams is
saying no? If? If either of

698
00:45:00,639 --> 00:45:06,280
them, I think New Orleans,
I think Orlando does that. If I'm

699
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:09,159
the Warriors, like, my knee
jerk reaction is that's not enough. But

700
00:45:09,199 --> 00:45:13,000
I actually think that might be about
as well as they can do realistically.

701
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,760
So I think I think that to
me, like if you made me pick,

702
00:45:17,159 --> 00:45:21,079
okay, if you told me the
Warriors are trading this pick and the

703
00:45:21,159 --> 00:45:24,440
TPE, what is the most likely
outcome? I think it's probably Gordon.

704
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:30,159
And that's not based on that's just
it just has the feel of I think

705
00:45:30,159 --> 00:45:32,320
that makes sense from both sides,
and it's sort of disappointing, I think

706
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:37,400
from the Warrior's perspective because I suspect
they're they have bigger ambitions than that but

707
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:39,840
I think I think I think both
would do that, and I think,

708
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,599
you know, when the dust settles, that might just be sort of as

709
00:45:43,599 --> 00:45:46,119
well as they can do. Would
you do Does this make it more attractive

710
00:45:46,199 --> 00:45:52,639
or less Andrew Wiggins and number two
for Gordon and Terrence Ross? And I'm

711
00:45:52,639 --> 00:45:57,960
not sure if number fifteen would still
be involved in that. M I think

712
00:45:58,039 --> 00:46:00,760
that makes I don't know, I
don't know. Oh that's weird. Am

713
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:06,519
I about to say that? Like
I don't want to lose Wiggins for Ross?

714
00:46:06,559 --> 00:46:10,079
So that's an interesting tree. So
it's Wiggins into for Gordon and Ross

715
00:46:10,159 --> 00:46:14,639
basically, and you're not getting a
pick back. I mean, they could

716
00:46:14,639 --> 00:46:16,760
in theory give up number fifteen.
But now I'm looking at from Orlando's perspective

717
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:20,719
of like, well, they are
paying Wiggins a contract, right, Yeah,

718
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:22,880
Orlando's not gonna be like, We're
sorry, you're not getting this pick

719
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:27,000
I don't know. I don't think
Orlando does that. If I was Orlando,

720
00:46:27,039 --> 00:46:28,840
I would do that in a heartbeat. I'm not gonna lie. Really

721
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,920
you want Wiggins on your books?
Why? Like your fast track to nowhere?

722
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:36,199
Anyway? Right now? Well,
Wiggins is like the conductor of the

723
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:39,239
fast track. Train to nowhere,
like it almost kind of forces you where

724
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:43,079
it's like, all right, so
let Evan fourne but age out of now

725
00:46:43,119 --> 00:46:45,440
like don't either he option and then
you just let him leave the following year

726
00:46:45,559 --> 00:46:49,440
or he opts he opts out and
you can let him leave now. So

727
00:46:49,519 --> 00:46:52,400
it's like like after this season,
there's alway sudden only two more years left

728
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,119
on Andrew Wiggins. This deal,
and like in theory, Andrew Wiggins is

729
00:46:54,159 --> 00:46:58,440
like the wing that they've just never
really had, like someone who's gonna put

730
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,440
a ton of pressure on defenses,
and he could in theory work well with

731
00:47:01,559 --> 00:47:05,360
Vouch. I would at least consider
it. I don't think it's a hard

732
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:10,920
no for me because Aaron Gordon people
like think he's not on a value contract.

733
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:14,559
I think I'm higher on him the
consensus at this point, which is

734
00:47:14,599 --> 00:47:16,760
just bizarre, but you have ross. Yes, he's on the declining scale,

735
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:21,639
but he's at above Emily money through
twenty two twenty three. If you

736
00:47:21,639 --> 00:47:23,519
have a chance to get number two, or that's gonna bring you a LaMelo

737
00:47:23,679 --> 00:47:27,840
ball or I guess the problem would
be if it's Wiseman that you have at

738
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:30,480
number two, like they don't with
Vujovich and you have Mobamba, You've kem

739
00:47:30,559 --> 00:47:35,519
Birch there, like and even with
Jonathan Isaac once he's healthy, maybe that

740
00:47:35,639 --> 00:47:38,280
really sort of drums down the interest
of ton for Orlando. But I don't

741
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:40,760
think it should be a hard no, because I feel like they need to

742
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:46,280
do something seizemic that kind of points
them towards the future and eating Andrew Wiggins's

743
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:50,840
deal to get the number two pick
and then maybe give up two guys who

744
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:53,480
don't factor in to that long term
future. I would think it's at least

745
00:47:53,519 --> 00:47:58,000
like playable. Maybe it's can you
get Golden State's twenty twenty one pick as

746
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,119
well? But you're not gonna get
the Minnesota pick in at the so,

747
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:02,920
Orlando was one of my kind of
down the list teams, so we may

748
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:07,519
as well just hit them real quick
right now. And it's it's for the

749
00:48:07,559 --> 00:48:10,239
reasons you said. It's that,
like, you know, maybe they're fine

750
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:15,280
with the mediocrity treadmill, chasing the
eight seed fast track to nowhere or whatever

751
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:19,559
you want to call it. But
like to me, I think Isaac's latest

752
00:48:19,599 --> 00:48:25,920
injury kind of removes the most likely
path out of that for them, because

753
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:31,280
there was a scenario or Isaac was
gonna stay healthy and be an all defensive

754
00:48:31,639 --> 00:48:36,280
first and the second team maybe Defensive
Player of the Year candidate for a long

755
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:37,840
time. And he you could play
him at center. You could build a

756
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,079
lot of interesting stuff. You could
move each of it. You know,

757
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:44,800
there was a way out. I
think if Isaac had the was you know,

758
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,039
going to reach his peak potential.
But I you know, it sucks,

759
00:48:47,079 --> 00:48:52,079
but I think that's just extremely unlikely
now. And so now it's to

760
00:48:52,159 --> 00:48:54,360
me, Orlando is just really in
a position where, you know, Gordon

761
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:58,679
is someone they could definitely move.
I mean, there are very few teams

762
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:00,800
to me that need to move up
in the draft more than Orlando because I

763
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:04,880
do think they need to take a
home run swing. Like as you just

764
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:07,840
said, you know, if they
could get ball at least, suddenly that's

765
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:10,559
interesting. Suddenly you know there's a
replacement for Isaac and the you know,

766
00:49:10,679 --> 00:49:15,079
faint hope of like a way out
of this department. So Orlando, just

767
00:49:15,159 --> 00:49:22,719
because they do feel sort of ripe
for a big, you know, overhaul,

768
00:49:23,199 --> 00:49:25,719
I think they're one of the most
interesting teams. And like, look,

769
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:29,920
you know, Terrence Ross, I
think is a contract you can trade

770
00:49:30,159 --> 00:49:32,199
Fournier if he opts in, I
think you could you know who knows,

771
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:36,320
you could extend him, you could
trade him, you could whatever. I

772
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:38,719
think you probably will opt in,
by the way, and then you might

773
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:40,960
you might even start thinking about,
like what do we how do we get

774
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:45,199
off Fuchavich's deal? Is anybody interested
in that? Could we give him to

775
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:47,800
the Calves for Drummond and something?
I mean, I like, I don't

776
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:52,960
know, but but the Magic do
seem kind of positioned, or at least

777
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,760
they should be positioned to start thinking
about, like, we really got to

778
00:49:55,800 --> 00:50:00,199
make some drastic changes here. Yeah, without Isaac for next season. It's

779
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:01,679
just if you ever thought there was
gonna be a peak version of yourself that

780
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:07,360
could make serious waves in the East, it's just not gonna be there next

781
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:09,440
year. And so I'd be with
you there. The last trade I have

782
00:50:09,599 --> 00:50:14,239
with the Warriors not to segue us
from away from the Magic. This is

783
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:16,639
like the most interesting one to me. Let's say the Spurs are ready to

784
00:50:16,639 --> 00:50:22,480
pivot into the rebuild? Are you
doing number two? And I'm just gonna

785
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:27,360
call it Gorgy Jang or James Johnson, So an expiring contract a number two

786
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:31,800
for Derek White, Rudy Gay,
and I feel like number eleven would need

787
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:36,079
to be in there as well.
So I was hoping you'd say Derek White

788
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:42,159
because I'm on the Derek White Official
Fan Club for sure. If it was

789
00:50:42,199 --> 00:50:44,280
just gonna be Rudy Gay, it
was gonna be a hard pass. But

790
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:45,840
yeah, I think I think if
I'm the Warriors, I do that.

791
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:51,280
If I'm the Spurs, like,
I don't, it's weird. I don't

792
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:54,119
under I don't know if the Spurs
like value Derek White as much as a

793
00:50:54,159 --> 00:50:57,840
lot of people do, because it
seems to me like he should be a

794
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:00,159
huge focal point and they should be
kind of trying to, you know,

795
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:05,840
figure out how to maximize him.
But but it just sort of feels like

796
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:08,400
a mess there because they have Lonnie
Walker, and they have Dejanta Murray,

797
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:13,440
who's theoretically your defense first point guard
guy of the future. White could be

798
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:16,400
a combo guy, and then Kelton
Johnson suddenly is a thing now too,

799
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:20,599
so not that he's a point guard, but he's in that. I lump

800
00:51:20,639 --> 00:51:23,480
those four guys all together in my
mind. I think White would help the

801
00:51:23,519 --> 00:51:29,679
Warriors a ton. I think Gay. I just he's at a point where

802
00:51:29,679 --> 00:51:31,119
it's like it could just be gone
this year, you know it, Like

803
00:51:31,159 --> 00:51:36,920
he's been an incredible story post Achilles
and has been so much better than I

804
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:40,000
thought he would be. But but
you know, I think White is the

805
00:51:40,079 --> 00:51:44,559
key there. I think if you're
giving me back eleven, I'm doing that

806
00:51:44,599 --> 00:51:47,119
because then I'm gonna go get another
of those kind of you know, fungible

807
00:51:47,159 --> 00:51:50,840
three D guys out of this draft. And I'm feeling pretty good because I

808
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:53,280
got three rotation players out of the
out of the deal. And it's also

809
00:51:53,559 --> 00:51:57,599
what you're talking about, though,
might make it less worthwhile for the Spurs

810
00:51:57,639 --> 00:52:00,039
because it's like, well it's LaMelo
ball. You're going to loop him into

811
00:52:00,079 --> 00:52:06,199
like that whole mishmatch of guards that
are there right now, even Anthony Edwards,

812
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:07,960
where it's like the Spurs they don't
really have wings, but like they're

813
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:12,639
not wanting for them right now,
because do you consider Lonnie Walker a wing?

814
00:52:12,679 --> 00:52:15,400
Do not think Murray's like kind of
a wing. So it's Keldon Johnson

815
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:19,760
but not really so Wiseman if he's
still there at number two, which I

816
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:22,400
would assume he would be. If
Minnesota is the team using the number one

817
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:25,119
pick, maybe that's value there because
you know, they don't really have anybody

818
00:52:25,159 --> 00:52:29,599
unless they view Yaco Purdle as the
center of the future there, and we

819
00:52:29,639 --> 00:52:32,280
know LaMarcus Aldridge is not the center
of the future there. So I have

820
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:37,280
a tough time seeing, you know, is gay and Derek White like to

821
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:42,079
move up nine spots? Does that
make sense for them? Is basically what

822
00:52:42,159 --> 00:52:45,639
it becomes. Yeah, And I
think it depends on the thing that I'm

823
00:52:45,679 --> 00:52:49,559
not sure about is what's their What
value are they putting on White? You

824
00:52:49,599 --> 00:52:52,480
know, because if if he is
a guy that they view as he's a

825
00:52:52,519 --> 00:52:57,039
starter for us for a long time
or at least you know, maybe he's

826
00:52:57,079 --> 00:52:59,719
our six man or something, then
I don't know if that's worth it to

827
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,239
them. But you know, the
other thing is the Spurs will short of

828
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:06,159
hard to gauge in general, because
we have this perception of sort of how

829
00:53:06,159 --> 00:53:09,400
they've operated for twenty some odd years
and that's going to change in a year

830
00:53:09,519 --> 00:53:15,320
or two and they're just gonna be
another NBA team essentially, So you know,

831
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:17,079
I don't I don't know if if
sort of the same rules are going

832
00:53:17,119 --> 00:53:22,880
to apply, which also, like
the Spurs never make trades, so that

833
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:25,079
would be that would be the first
thing I would I would worry about.

834
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:29,159
But yeah, that's interesting. I
hadn't thought of the Spurs as a as

835
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:31,320
a as a possible trade partner.
I don't know. There's a bunch of

836
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:35,800
deals out there. It's just they're
all nothing's bowling you over. If you're

837
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:37,480
the Warriors. If it had been
by now, you know, we would

838
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:40,119
have probably heard some whispers about it. Yeah, like even trying to come

839
00:53:40,159 --> 00:53:44,840
up with the mega package where you've
trade both the Minnesota pick and this pick,

840
00:53:45,199 --> 00:53:45,920
which is like, well, what
does that get you? Because when

841
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:51,000
you're getting to a deal that's so
big and you kind of need Andrew Wiggins

842
00:53:51,079 --> 00:53:53,039
in there, and he changes the
complexion of the deal and tire highly as

843
00:53:53,039 --> 00:53:57,880
someone who's on a net negative contract. Yeah, I mean, obviously Janice

844
00:53:58,039 --> 00:54:01,679
was was sort of like, I'm
sure in terms what they were hoping Wiggins

845
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:07,320
and you know, the next year's
Minnesota first and literally what anything else they

846
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:09,639
could throw in there. But it's
just that's just not going to happen.

847
00:54:09,679 --> 00:54:14,599
I don't think so. And maybe
you can entice the Wizards into giving you

848
00:54:14,599 --> 00:54:17,239
Bradley Beale with it would have to
be other stuff with those two picks and

849
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:21,639
Wiggins my whole thing is as good
as Bradley Beal is, is he like

850
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:25,280
the best fit for that roster because
their defense is already kind of shaky,

851
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:29,480
where now you have to wonder if
Clay Thompson is going to be better off

852
00:54:29,519 --> 00:54:35,000
guarding bigger wings post a cl Andre
just because in theory, like they'll be

853
00:54:35,039 --> 00:54:37,800
slower than the assignments that he's normally
used to guarding, and you're not helping

854
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:40,639
your defense. Wiggins isn't a defender, but he's at least a body you

855
00:54:40,639 --> 00:54:45,239
can imagine moving around the wings.
Bial is not that player. And if

856
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:46,920
he's defending the way that he did
this year, which is to say not

857
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:52,440
at all, that sort of becomes
a problem where you have post A post

858
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:57,280
acl Clay and then Steph and then
Bradley Beal, Like what does your defense

859
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:01,000
look like if Draymond Green isn't playing
at defensive player of the Year level?

860
00:55:01,599 --> 00:55:05,000
Right, Well, that's why you
need James Wiseman in there to just clean

861
00:55:05,039 --> 00:55:07,239
up everybody's mistakes, right Yeah,
but you're not getting Brady Deal and having

862
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:13,440
James Wiseman Also, James Wiseman will
not be cleaning up mistakes he will be

863
00:55:13,519 --> 00:55:15,599
making them. Yes, that's a
good point as well. I can't believe

864
00:55:15,599 --> 00:55:17,519
that one slide. So you had
the Warriors, which was an overlap,

865
00:55:17,559 --> 00:55:21,440
and then we talked about the Magic
briefly. Do you have anything to add

866
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:24,639
on them? No, I just
just that they seem ripe as as I

867
00:55:24,639 --> 00:55:30,280
think we both agree for something to
happen because they just yeah, we would

868
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:34,239
just be rehashing that. I feel
like I've been stealing all the teams do

869
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:36,639
you have? Who? Did you
have a number one team that we haven't

870
00:55:36,679 --> 00:55:38,079
really hit yet? Yeah, so
you said you didn't have them on your

871
00:55:38,119 --> 00:55:43,280
list, but the Pelicans for me, and I think I think I've probably

872
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:46,519
maybe just had too much time to
think about basketball, like this exact season

873
00:55:46,599 --> 00:55:50,239
that we're sort of in, or
at least transition that we're about to make.

874
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:53,239
And I'm looking at New Orleans and
I've been the advocate of like they

875
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:58,119
should you know, resign, brandon
Ingram use their raml Lee, bring back

876
00:55:58,159 --> 00:56:00,199
Derrick favors, like go at it
the West, and it's sort of like,

877
00:56:00,559 --> 00:56:04,280
wow, they did not look good
when they were in the bubble,

878
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:08,119
and like I know, there was
all these just you know circumstances beyond their

879
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:13,400
control, and Zion Williamson had like
eight different rookie seasons. It felt like

880
00:56:13,519 --> 00:56:15,880
at the same time, I'll put
it this way, if you max out

881
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:22,519
brandon Ingram, that's basically with everyone
else that's on your books, without deciding

882
00:56:22,519 --> 00:56:27,519
whether you're going to bring back Derek
Favors, without deciding on each one more.

883
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:30,960
I'm assuming they won't get They'll just
get rid of Darry Smiler, Like

884
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:35,960
that's just the salary cap at this
point with the pick number thirteen in there

885
00:56:36,639 --> 00:56:39,679
and now looking ahead, so you're
gonna have to pay due holiday in twenty

886
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:43,239
twenty one. He is the player
option. JJ Reddick is coming off the

887
00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:46,559
books then too, like Lonzo Ball
is extension eligible, he's gonna need new

888
00:56:46,559 --> 00:56:50,840
contract. Then Josh Hart is going
to need a new contract. Then I'm

889
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:53,440
sort of wondering, like, is
there a danger in maxing out Andrew Wiggins

890
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:58,960
now, because it almost consigned you
to competing immediately, And while you mentioned

891
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:02,639
that Zion Williams is might be shorter
than not, I'm still just looking at

892
00:57:02,639 --> 00:57:07,000
it like this roster could all of
a sudden be concerned with the luxury attacks

893
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:09,360
by twenty twenty one, and so
they're interesting to me in the sense that

894
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:13,920
one, will they decide to move
Drew Holiday, to move to pivot into

895
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:17,519
sort of more of a gradual timeline. And two might they consider something that

896
00:57:17,559 --> 00:57:20,800
we're not talking about? And I
think most people would be like, oh,

897
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:22,920
Eli on the ball trade. My
whole thing is like, would you

898
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:27,760
sign and trade Brandon ingram at this
point? Like there will be teams,

899
00:57:28,039 --> 00:57:30,599
even the ones with cap space because
they know you could match, that might

900
00:57:30,639 --> 00:57:35,000
be open at doing something like what
if you can get number six and Cam

901
00:57:35,039 --> 00:57:37,719
Reddish out of Atlanta? And maybe
something else too, like is that a

902
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:42,280
move you're considering, because yeah,
Brandon ingram is was an all star level

903
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:45,599
player last year, but do you
count on that moving forward? And too,

904
00:57:45,639 --> 00:57:47,639
what does that just mean for you
in the context of the Western Conference

905
00:57:49,039 --> 00:57:52,400
over the next three to four years
when you're like, not really sure how

906
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:57,320
this whole roster meshes together. I, you know, I think that's one,

907
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:00,559
you know, certainly, that's one
way to view. The other way

908
00:58:00,599 --> 00:58:05,719
I would push back on it and
frame it this way is the Pelicans kind

909
00:58:05,719 --> 00:58:10,039
of have a lot of good problems
because the Holiday thing. You know,

910
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:15,159
look, they can he's I assume
he's gonna opt in for twenty one twenty

911
00:58:15,159 --> 00:58:17,960
two, So you really do have
this year? Really, yeah, I

912
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:22,039
think so, because I think,
honestly, I think anybody that has like

913
00:58:22,079 --> 00:58:27,119
over twenty five million that they can
lock down, even like I don't think

914
00:58:27,119 --> 00:58:30,920
we're going to be through the financial
uncertainty, you know, in twenty one

915
00:58:30,039 --> 00:58:34,280
twenty two. I think I think
of player options right now, unless you're

916
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:36,719
like Jeremy Grant, you know under
you know, if you're down under around

917
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:39,480
the ten million whatever, I think, you know, you can get out

918
00:58:39,519 --> 00:58:43,159
on the market and see what you
can do. But if Holiday's option is

919
00:58:43,199 --> 00:58:46,400
twenty seven point one million and he's
gonna be ill, I don't have it

920
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:51,960
in front of me. But I
think he's thirty now or twenty nine je

921
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:55,360
so like, yeah, you could
opt out and sign maybe like a four

922
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:59,440
year, one hundred and ten million
dollars deal, but I don't. I

923
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:02,559
just I don't know. So I'm
viewing him more as there's sort of less

924
00:59:02,639 --> 00:59:07,159
urgency to trade him because of the
length of his contract, because I'm viewing

925
00:59:07,159 --> 00:59:10,480
it as a two year thing and
and and so you have that, you

926
00:59:10,519 --> 00:59:15,480
know, less urgency there. I
think Ingram to me, you do max

927
00:59:15,519 --> 00:59:17,960
him out. I think just not
just because he was an All Star or

928
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:22,000
anything like that, but the specific
types of gains that he made in his

929
00:59:22,079 --> 00:59:27,960
game this year are just the kinds
that are just they seem like, not

930
00:59:28,039 --> 00:59:30,199
fool proof, but they're I think
they stick, like the ability to shoot

931
00:59:30,199 --> 00:59:32,719
off the dribble, the ability to
add a bunch of volume to your three

932
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:37,559
point shot, and just at his
height, I feel like, you know,

933
00:59:37,599 --> 00:59:40,639
the Tatum comparison is really imperfect.
He's not Jason Tatum, but I

934
00:59:40,679 --> 00:59:44,480
think there's some of that in there. So I think you max him out.

935
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:47,559
You've got Williamson on the rookie deal
through twenty three, twenty four,

936
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:52,400
probably you extend him before that if
it looks like he's going to be healthy.

937
00:59:52,519 --> 00:59:58,760
I don't know. So I think
at first, if the question is

938
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:01,519
six and Reddish or Ingram or you
know, some permutation of that, no,

939
01:00:01,719 --> 01:00:06,400
I think I want Ingram. I'm
gonna lock him down and I'll worry

940
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:09,159
about moving Holiday, who I think
is going to be an asset basically until

941
01:00:09,199 --> 01:00:15,679
the day his contract expires. So
I'm just going to figure that out later.

942
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:19,760
What if Golden State is coming at
you with number two, the Minnesota

943
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:24,079
pick. If I'm getting the met
another pick and Andrew Wiggins is deal,

944
01:00:24,079 --> 01:00:29,360
you're getting three picks. And Andrew
Wiggins for brandon Ingram. Oh for Ingram.

945
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:31,840
I thought you were going to talk
about Holiday Man. I don't know

946
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:36,920
you. You just kind of overwhelming
with his Warriors trade options. I'm trying

947
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:38,400
to stay that wasn't that one was
just one that's Freman. But I'm saying

948
01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:43,000
like I could even see Atlanta being
like, you know, hey, here's

949
01:00:43,079 --> 01:00:46,280
Kevin Hurder cam Reddish that okay,
see pick in twenty twenty two, and

950
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:50,280
then the number the number six pick
here, like, let's talk about it

951
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:53,639
an Ingram sign and trade and then
look, the Pelicans still are interesting to

952
01:00:53,679 --> 01:00:55,639
me. I think they keep Ingram. I want to be clear, I

953
01:00:55,719 --> 01:01:00,320
just have more questions about it because
of how far away they appear in the

954
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:04,440
bubble. But if you're gonna pay
Ingram and you're gonna keep Holiday, well

955
01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:06,800
then you're still interesting because it's like, well, do you look at like

956
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:08,880
seeing what you could get for Lonzo
Ball not just because of the money,

957
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:14,079
but maybe to make the roster just
a better balance. And then also in

958
01:01:14,119 --> 01:01:19,320
general you're still kind of like tethered
to a winnish now window. I would

959
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:22,039
say, if you're gonna if you're
as soon as you max someone out in

960
01:01:22,079 --> 01:01:23,960
my books, like it's with Phoenix, with Devin Booker, like the clock

961
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:29,159
just starts ticking. Then even if
you know they're not an imminent flight risk

962
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:32,360
because you've just invested that equity in
someone, and so can they go out

963
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:36,800
and make you know a win now
is trade? Like does them trying to

964
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:39,400
enter the Bradley Beal sweepstakes if Washington
even makes them available because they have all

965
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:44,199
those picks from that from that Laker
trade makes sense? Are they a team

966
01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:46,880
like a Victory Ladipo probably isn't like
the best fit there, but like a

967
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:50,679
Miles Turner that would be a perfect
move. You've already talked about it.

968
01:01:50,719 --> 01:01:53,280
So I think they're interesting both ways
because they I feel like they almost have

969
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:57,880
to pick one just because I feel
like we're at the point where we've established,

970
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:00,079
at least for the most part,
that this roster is currently constructed,

971
01:02:00,159 --> 01:02:05,280
is not going to be this quasi
contender. Yeah, you know, in

972
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:07,840
my mind, I kind of and
this might just be wishful thinking, but

973
01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:12,400
like you know, when we first
started talking about them, I said that,

974
01:02:12,559 --> 01:02:14,840
you know, everything kind of depends
on where they think they are,

975
01:02:15,199 --> 01:02:17,679
and in my mind, I just, unrealistically, I kind of want them

976
01:02:17,679 --> 01:02:21,559
to try to just do both,
you know, like, let's hold on

977
01:02:21,599 --> 01:02:24,760
to Holiday, let's develop our young
guys. If we want to trade ball

978
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:29,199
for future assets, that's fine,
but let's sort of try to nurture the

979
01:02:29,239 --> 01:02:31,920
young guys, keep getting you know, future assets, and keep our vets.

980
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:35,519
You know, Like I kind of
want them to try to do everything

981
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:37,719
at least for a year or two. But like to me, if you're

982
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:43,639
trading Ingram, you're also trading Holiday, You're also trading Reddick. You're you

983
01:02:43,639 --> 01:02:47,440
know, because Ingram is an all
star who theoretically is just starting his prime,

984
01:02:49,679 --> 01:02:52,280
and if you're going to move him, I think you're just you're sort

985
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:55,800
of tearing it down again. Even
then, they just did that, so

986
01:02:55,920 --> 01:03:00,800
which feels like a little bit too
much upheaval for me. But but yeah,

987
01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:02,239
I know, I don't know,
I kind of want them to try

988
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:06,119
to do both. Just kind of
do everything, be all things to all

989
01:03:06,159 --> 01:03:08,400
people, be be young and old, be good now in later, like

990
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:12,639
let's just let's let's just see if
that's actually possible. Do you want to

991
01:03:12,719 --> 01:03:15,559
hit me with your next team?
So can we talk about Brooklyn? I

992
01:03:15,599 --> 01:03:20,239
think we sort of have to talk
about I think you and I whatevery podcasts

993
01:03:20,239 --> 01:03:23,719
are contractually obligated to talk about Brooklyn
because we invariably do. That's right,

994
01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:27,599
I think, yeah, So we're
probably just going to rehash things we talked

995
01:03:27,639 --> 01:03:31,000
about. So my first bullet point
under Brooklyn NETS for my teams is,

996
01:03:31,480 --> 01:03:36,519
quote, just the circus of Kyrie
and no experience Nash like that. That

997
01:03:36,639 --> 01:03:42,000
to me puts like everything on the
table for them. So the thirds,

998
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:46,840
the third star pursuit, which I
think we've both talked about together and separately,

999
01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:52,159
of I'm not sure that's the best
way to go, you know,

1000
01:03:52,239 --> 01:03:57,440
trading all these guys that are useful
starter slash rotation players on really good contracts

1001
01:03:57,480 --> 01:04:01,719
for you know, insert whoever,
el who again just keeps looking like he's

1002
01:04:01,719 --> 01:04:04,480
not going to be moved. But
of course that's exactly what he and Washington

1003
01:04:04,519 --> 01:04:10,239
should say to keep his value high. You know, the Joe Harris free

1004
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:14,159
agency. What's he gonna get?
He to me? Keeping him to me

1005
01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:16,880
is about as important as anything else
the NETS could possibly do this offseason.

1006
01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:20,639
I just don't know what that's going
to cost, and then you just have

1007
01:04:21,079 --> 01:04:27,840
overlaying all of this. They really
like quietly high stakes of you need to

1008
01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:32,199
win now because Kevin Durant is thirty
two and he's gonna age better than most

1009
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:36,000
and even with the Achilles injury,
I guess there are reports out there of

1010
01:04:36,079 --> 01:04:41,679
like he's just looked incredible in workouts
and scream talking. Yeah right, nobody's

1011
01:04:41,719 --> 01:04:44,239
ever said he looks he looks a
little washed. I think we should.

1012
01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:46,239
He put on fifteen pounds of muscle
in four weeks. Yeah, and he

1013
01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:49,880
got the fact he got taller too, but they didn't list it. They're

1014
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:54,679
actually listing him at six seven now. Yeah, right exactly. But that's

1015
01:04:54,719 --> 01:04:58,920
kind of a quietly that's a big
deal because like as much as we like

1016
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:02,960
to think of the Durant Irving pairing
as as a pairing, I mean those

1017
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:05,800
guys are not on the same level. If you know, Durant is like

1018
01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:11,000
an all timer, one of the
best scorers ever, Like this is not

1019
01:05:11,119 --> 01:05:14,760
new information to you. He's like
a separate class of basketball player. Kyrie

1020
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:17,360
Irving is a really good offensive player
who brings a lot of difficulties like every

1021
01:05:17,519 --> 01:05:24,840
literally everywhere else on and off the
floor. So if Durant is not uh,

1022
01:05:25,039 --> 01:05:28,519
you know, close to what he
used to be for very long,

1023
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:31,159
then it sort of almost doesn't matter
like what the Nets do, because they're

1024
01:05:31,159 --> 01:05:34,639
not going to get this off the
ground. But but so those are kind

1025
01:05:34,639 --> 01:05:38,960
of the bullet points you could take. You could take any of those and

1026
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:43,920
run with, you know, the
Kyrie Steve Nash thing, third Star Persue,

1027
01:05:44,039 --> 01:05:46,519
Joe Harris, Katie's age. Like, what interests you most about the

1028
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:50,920
Nets kind of coaching collaborative? The
Nets don't have a head coach, it's

1029
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:55,119
a it's a co op. Yeah, that's like a New York thing.

1030
01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:59,880
I think I'm most fascinated by the
they have to keep Joe Harris. Might

1031
01:06:00,079 --> 01:06:04,960
my semi spicy take is that if
you're the Knicks, I would rather overpay

1032
01:06:05,039 --> 01:06:10,000
Joe Harris than Fred Vanfleet because he's
so plug in play that there's yes,

1033
01:06:10,119 --> 01:06:14,840
you can overpay for shooters, but
like within the context of your roster where

1034
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:18,719
you have these ball handlers who can't
shoot, Julius Randall, RJ. Barrett

1035
01:06:18,719 --> 01:06:21,079
and then Mitchell Robinson, a big
who doesn't really space the floor like just

1036
01:06:21,119 --> 01:06:26,559
surround them with outlets of shooting.
And Joe Harris is what you know you

1037
01:06:26,639 --> 01:06:30,440
wanted it Wayne Ellington to be and
he was not. So maybe the Nets

1038
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:34,800
don't value Joe Harris like that because
you know, Kyrie, like when he

1039
01:06:35,079 --> 01:06:38,480
was talking about his teammates, like
Joe Harris wasn't on that list of the

1040
01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:41,000
middle of the season, he said
that didn't mean anything, and perhaps it

1041
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:42,639
didn't. I'll give him the benefit
of the doubt there, but I just

1042
01:06:42,679 --> 01:06:45,239
don't view his free agencies an issue
for them. If you have to pay

1043
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:47,960
him fifteen million dollars, pay him
fifteen million dollars. The Third Star pursuit

1044
01:06:48,039 --> 01:06:54,719
is interesting to me because they have
at once one of the more interesting under

1045
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:59,480
the radar trade packages out there,
but it's also built around players that are

1046
01:06:59,519 --> 01:07:02,239
sort of win win Now, when
you're looking at Spencer Dinwoody and Carris Lavert

1047
01:07:02,679 --> 01:07:05,519
and so like, I don't know
if you're giving up both of those guys

1048
01:07:05,519 --> 01:07:10,480
in a deal, I don't know
how much of an upgrade you're actually getting.

1049
01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:15,840
And my hotter take would be,
I'm not giving up Carris Lavert in

1050
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:17,920
a deal for Drew Holiday. I'm
not giving him up in a deal for

1051
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:23,400
Victor Ladipo, I consider giving him
up, definitely for Bradley Beal, But

1052
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:26,840
like that, unless you're getting a
top twenty player, certified top twenty,

1053
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:29,679
not Drew Holiday, where in any
given season maybe you could envision it.

1054
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:32,119
I'm just not giving up Carris Lavert. I think he just provides more value

1055
01:07:32,119 --> 01:07:36,960
to you on that contract. And
so if Dinwoody, Alan Picks and then

1056
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:42,039
another salary, Tor and Prince can
get you a Drew Holiday, if it

1057
01:07:42,119 --> 01:07:45,639
can get you a Victor Ladipo,
like yes, I'm looking at that.

1058
01:07:45,039 --> 01:07:49,079
Otherwise, though, I think the
Nets might be better off standing Pat or

1059
01:07:49,119 --> 01:07:51,960
just thinking smaller scale, like do
you know who's a great fit in Brooklyn?

1060
01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:56,199
Aaron Gordon? Like that would be
is there a way to work that

1061
01:07:56,320 --> 01:08:00,239
like dim Woody and another salary?
Does that get you Aaron Gordon? That's

1062
01:08:00,239 --> 01:08:04,159
absolutely perfect for what they need.
So I think they should look at moves

1063
01:08:04,159 --> 01:08:06,679
like that where maybe you're not necessarily
getting a third star, but you get

1064
01:08:06,679 --> 01:08:11,440
to keep Caris Lavert. I'm not
saying that he's going to be you're a

1065
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:14,280
third star, but after what he
did, and he's not the most efficient

1066
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:16,520
player, but he can hit and
off the dribble three and he's a really

1067
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:19,760
good passer, and you know you
can at least throw him on twos and

1068
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:25,640
some threes defensively and not live to
regret it all the time. That like

1069
01:08:25,920 --> 01:08:30,399
it matters to me when he's from
a team perspective on this what I would

1070
01:08:30,399 --> 01:08:32,359
call a value contract three years and
fifty two point five million dollars. If

1071
01:08:32,359 --> 01:08:35,560
you're concerned about his health, I
get it, But are you guaranteeing yourself

1072
01:08:35,640 --> 01:08:40,199
much better health with Victor Oladipo.
Not necessarily, And then even with true

1073
01:08:40,199 --> 01:08:44,439
holiday, like let's say he's not
expiring, he just seems like a case

1074
01:08:44,439 --> 01:08:45,840
of well, he's gonna opt in
and then you have to extend him anyway,

1075
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:49,399
like that's gonna be the situation.
So Caras Lavert has shot up in

1076
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:53,920
value to me. So unless you're
getting Bradley bal or a player above,

1077
01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:57,399
you know, let's say James Harden
becomes available and you just throw the kitchen

1078
01:08:57,520 --> 01:09:02,720
sink at Houston picks LeVert, Dim
Woody, Jared Allen. Yeah, I

1079
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:05,840
don't know if he's actually considers that, and then Brooklyn's defense will be just

1080
01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:11,279
a certified disaster in that case.
But like, that's the type of deal

1081
01:09:11,319 --> 01:09:13,560
that I think he would have to
move Karras slavernon at that point, and

1082
01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:16,159
I'm interested to see whether the Nets
don't view it that way. Kevin Durrett

1083
01:09:16,159 --> 01:09:19,399
has said that Karas Slavert can be
the Nets his third start, and I

1084
01:09:19,439 --> 01:09:23,920
actually think that him and Karros Silvert
have a pre existing relationship. I don't

1085
01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:26,439
want to put words in his mouth, but I feel like he had mentioned

1086
01:09:26,439 --> 01:09:28,800
this and a scrum that I was
in, I can't when he was talking

1087
01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:31,479
about an injury, So like,
maybe that good will actually means something.

1088
01:09:31,840 --> 01:09:34,640
But then there's also this urgency in
Brooklyn where it's like, well, DeAndre

1089
01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:39,920
Jordan very clearly shouldn't have been prioritized
over Jared Allen, but that's exactly what

1090
01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:43,399
happened once Kenny Atkinson left. And
so there's this, and then look at

1091
01:09:43,439 --> 01:09:46,000
who was hired as head coach,
Like Steve Nash, the brilliant basketball mind,

1092
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:49,520
but he definitely skipped the line.
And this seems like it was handpicked

1093
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:53,279
by both Kevin Durant, who's good
friends with him, and Kyrie Irving who've

1094
01:09:53,359 --> 01:09:57,520
used this as a coaching co op
right now, And I don't you know,

1095
01:09:57,560 --> 01:09:59,920
I don't have a problem with them, like with Kyrie Irving and Kevin

1096
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:01,079
Grant. If you want to say
they're running the show or they just have

1097
01:10:01,199 --> 01:10:04,800
this heavy influence like they're the superstars. That's why, like you sign them,

1098
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:09,239
Like if that was part of the
deal, that's fine. But when

1099
01:10:09,279 --> 01:10:13,159
players take that view, I do
feel like they're more shortsighted than not.

1100
01:10:13,359 --> 01:10:16,039
And I'm not trying to criticize saying
that executives are better, because executives make

1101
01:10:16,079 --> 01:10:19,520
bone headed decisions all the time.
I could just see a scenario in which

1102
01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:26,479
they the nets wind up undervaluing what
Karis LeVert actually is to them or what

1103
01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:29,640
he can actually net them on the
trade market. And the example would be

1104
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:30,920
if you move him for Victor Ladipo. I think it's I think it's a

1105
01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:34,800
failed to move. I think that's
probably right, and I may or may

1106
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:41,119
not have proposed exactly that in some
trade piece that I can't remember, but

1107
01:10:41,680 --> 01:10:45,479
a couple so I've said this before. I want to talk more about Oliver

1108
01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:49,800
because like every element of him on
this team and potentially not being on this

1109
01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:54,960
team is really interesting to me.
I think what you need if you're going

1110
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:58,199
to be the type of team that
the Nets want to be, which is

1111
01:10:58,239 --> 01:11:01,600
to say, a legitimate contender.
What you need are superstars, and you

1112
01:11:01,720 --> 01:11:04,520
also need I've probably said this on
this pod before, and I think you

1113
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:09,640
also need a bunch of guys that
are way better than the contracts that they

1114
01:11:09,680 --> 01:11:13,000
have. So, you know,
I think Dimwitty falls in that category.

1115
01:11:13,119 --> 01:11:15,359
I think Lavert definitely falls in that
category. I think Harris, even if

1116
01:11:15,399 --> 01:11:20,279
he's getting fifteen million, might fall
in that category. So the idea that

1117
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:25,760
instead of having stars and a bunch
of guys out performing the contracts they are

1118
01:11:25,800 --> 01:11:30,760
on and providing a much extra surplus
value for you, the idea that it's

1119
01:11:30,840 --> 01:11:35,359
instead better to have a third superstar
who necessarily on the best version of the

1120
01:11:35,399 --> 01:11:40,319
Nets will be marginalized because you've got
two guys that need the ball and deserve

1121
01:11:40,359 --> 01:11:45,199
the ball, and Irving and Durant
I think is a mistake. The other

1122
01:11:45,319 --> 01:11:49,119
the problem is Lavert kind of falls
into that same category because he is absolutely

1123
01:11:49,159 --> 01:11:54,199
an on ball guy, and the
counter would be, well, Kyrie Irving

1124
01:11:54,279 --> 01:11:58,319
never stays healthy and Durant is coming
off a catastrophic injury. We don't know

1125
01:11:58,439 --> 01:12:01,439
how durable he's going to be so
Lavert's gonna be able to sort of maximize

1126
01:12:01,479 --> 01:12:04,760
his on ball game. Just fine, that's a good counter. Maybe that's

1127
01:12:04,760 --> 01:12:08,520
how it plays out. But I
do think it's fair to say that Lavert

1128
01:12:08,600 --> 01:12:11,319
is not going to get to be
the is probably not going to get to

1129
01:12:11,319 --> 01:12:14,640
be the best version of himself on
this team, and that other types of

1130
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:18,600
players might provide Brooklyn more value,
maybe not necessarily dollar for dollar value,

1131
01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:23,560
because Lavert's contract is as you mentioned, is so I mean just enticing.

1132
01:12:23,600 --> 01:12:27,920
Any team should want that. But
but I think, like, especially if

1133
01:12:28,399 --> 01:12:30,359
and this may or may not be
the case, there have to be teams

1134
01:12:30,399 --> 01:12:36,600
around the league that look at Lavert
and kind of see a And I want

1135
01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:41,920
to be very careful about this because
I'm not drawing this comparison see like a

1136
01:12:42,000 --> 01:12:46,119
James Harden leaving. Okay, see
kind of situation. He's Lavert is not

1137
01:12:46,199 --> 01:12:54,800
hardened. But this this the idea, Yeah, James Harden, nobody's gonna

1138
01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:58,239
aggregate me. This is way too
convoluted of a point I'm making. But

1139
01:12:58,319 --> 01:13:01,119
I think there are teams out there
that would have reason to you Lavert as

1140
01:13:01,119 --> 01:13:05,479
a guy like we can get this
guy the Nets. I think you know,

1141
01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:10,479
it's not a The way that he
is valuable to us is different than

1142
01:13:10,520 --> 01:13:13,680
the way he's valuable to the Nets
in a way that benefits us, because

1143
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:15,039
we're gonna take him. We're gonna
put the ball in his hands. He's

1144
01:13:15,079 --> 01:13:19,800
the top option, and he's gonna
get us twenty seven a game and you

1145
01:13:19,840 --> 01:13:24,319
know, six assists whatever, Like
he's just gonna be our guy. He's

1146
01:13:24,359 --> 01:13:27,960
gonna pop, he's gonna finally stay
health and lo and behold, we got

1147
01:13:27,960 --> 01:13:30,840
an all star making sixteen million a
year for the next, you know,

1148
01:13:30,079 --> 01:13:33,520
this year and two more and now
we're rolling like there have to be teams

1149
01:13:33,520 --> 01:13:36,279
out like Orlando should be one of
those teams, Like suddenly they have a

1150
01:13:36,319 --> 01:13:42,199
guy that actually makes stuff happen offensively, add any number of other teams that

1151
01:13:42,279 --> 01:13:45,119
just need a guy to do that. So that, to me, I'm

1152
01:13:45,159 --> 01:13:49,359
just arguing against myself because there would
be logic in the Nets moving him,

1153
01:13:49,399 --> 01:13:53,520
because they could extract a lot of
value from a team that views Lavert that

1154
01:13:53,560 --> 01:13:56,640
way, and the Nets will not
get that kind of production from Lavert.

1155
01:13:56,720 --> 01:14:01,239
So I just I cannot wait to
see what they you and I honestly my

1156
01:14:01,359 --> 01:14:04,960
gut reaction again to circle back is
that they should just keep him because he's

1157
01:14:04,960 --> 01:14:08,920
such a value on that deal and
he's so good and din witty to some

1158
01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:13,479
extent in alan same way. But
I'm really interesting to see how this plays

1159
01:14:13,520 --> 01:14:15,520
out because there is a scenario where
he just goes to another team and he's

1160
01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:18,399
an All Star and the Nets maybe
you know, that's how they get their

1161
01:14:18,479 --> 01:14:23,039
third star and it fits better.
It's just it's just a totally, uh,

1162
01:14:23,439 --> 01:14:27,039
you know, unpredictable kind of set
of outcomes laying out there, just

1163
01:14:27,119 --> 01:14:30,039
all tied directly to Liver and what
the Nets do with them. I'm totally

1164
01:14:30,119 --> 01:14:34,960
with you where you could talk yourself
just around yourself when discussing the Brooklyn Nets,

1165
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:38,359
like that's where they're at. But
I do think they end up doing

1166
01:14:38,479 --> 01:14:43,239
something. I don't know how it
is. They you don't hire Steve Nash

1167
01:14:43,319 --> 01:14:45,159
to be your coach, you know, Like I just that to me is

1168
01:14:45,199 --> 01:14:49,560
so on brand of Look how splashy
this was, and like there's no bigger

1169
01:14:49,640 --> 01:14:51,640
Nash fan than me, Like,
I hope it goes well. I don't

1170
01:14:51,640 --> 01:14:57,560
think it's gonna go well. But
the Nets just seem like this this is

1171
01:14:57,600 --> 01:15:00,840
it. They're They're gonna make noise
and the way you do that as trading

1172
01:15:00,880 --> 01:15:02,039
for a star. So I do
I agree. I think they're going to

1173
01:15:02,079 --> 01:15:05,600
do something. I do think and
I've already mentioned this though, that they

1174
01:15:05,720 --> 01:15:11,960
actually like their best trade packages are
really good. Like when you look at

1175
01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:14,640
Dimwoody and if you want to bet, you know, we talk about you

1176
01:15:14,680 --> 01:15:16,239
know, how much how far into
the distance are you willing to go with

1177
01:15:16,279 --> 01:15:19,800
picks? Like this whole thing is
completely combustible, And so if you're taking

1178
01:15:19,800 --> 01:15:24,640
a chance on like you get Brooklyn
to throw you a loosely protected like twenty

1179
01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:28,600
twenty three first round pick, that
really just beefs up a deal with Ton

1180
01:15:28,680 --> 01:15:31,640
two and you still have Jared Allen, granted you'll have to pay him before

1181
01:15:31,880 --> 01:15:35,119
twenty one, twenty two, like
and even just Spencer Dimwoody, Yeah,

1182
01:15:35,119 --> 01:15:38,520
you can worry about him entering free
agency two twenty one, but he's a

1183
01:15:38,560 --> 01:15:43,119
fringe All Star in the Eastern Conference. So their best trade package, though,

1184
01:15:43,119 --> 01:15:45,079
I feel it could actually get them
something special. It's just a matter

1185
01:15:45,119 --> 01:15:48,439
of is that someone special going to
be available? And if he's not,

1186
01:15:48,560 --> 01:15:53,319
are they going to offer close to
their best and just settle anyway for the

1187
01:15:53,359 --> 01:15:57,720
sake of doing something. Yeah,
No, they're they're super interesting. I'm

1188
01:15:57,720 --> 01:16:00,439
glad we got our twenty minutes of
netstalk. Weren't going to be able to

1189
01:16:00,439 --> 01:16:03,479
pull it off. My next team
is and I do have some I don't

1190
01:16:03,479 --> 01:16:08,359
want to make it seem like we're
focusing on all just like the flagship franchises,

1191
01:16:08,399 --> 01:16:14,079
but Dallas to me is incredibly interesting
because so Brian Winhorst on the jump

1192
01:16:14,119 --> 01:16:15,720
mentioned that the Mavericks were expected to
be in the front of the line for

1193
01:16:15,920 --> 01:16:18,359
Janie, and we can make the
joke that it's like, well, you

1194
01:16:18,359 --> 01:16:21,600
know, twenty nine other teams are
saying the same thing, but like twenty

1195
01:16:21,680 --> 01:16:27,720
nine other teams don't have another entrenched, like top five player by that point

1196
01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:31,760
who is just so young that you
could just contend for championships for roughly forever.

1197
01:16:32,439 --> 01:16:35,159
My whole thing is because you have
Luca don Chich, You're like,

1198
01:16:35,399 --> 01:16:40,560
aren't you obligated to do something now? And I know you're not going to

1199
01:16:40,600 --> 01:16:44,399
have cap space unless Tim Hardaway during
your opts out, which no one expects

1200
01:16:44,439 --> 01:16:48,560
him too. I would think at
this point still like you could explore this

1201
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:51,960
is a team when you talk about
sign in trades, like this is a

1202
01:16:51,960 --> 01:16:56,359
team where it can make sense they
have pick number eighteen that they can move

1203
01:16:56,399 --> 01:17:00,159
after the fact, you have Seth
Curry, like that contract is gold and

1204
01:17:00,199 --> 01:17:01,960
Phinny Smith called Delon Wright. I
don't think he's a great fit for the

1205
01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:04,760
Mavericks. I think he could be
a great fit elsewhere. You have him

1206
01:17:04,760 --> 01:17:09,720
Hardaway Junior on that expiring deal is
fodder and so I'm not saying you'll unload

1207
01:17:09,840 --> 01:17:13,159
everything. But like if you can
get a Danilo Gallinari via a sign and

1208
01:17:13,199 --> 01:17:15,439
trade, or even if Fred van
Fleet, if Toronto decides that it wants

1209
01:17:15,439 --> 01:17:19,880
to know about face into this,
I'll call it gap year because I don't

1210
01:17:19,880 --> 01:17:24,720
expect him to rebuild. With Pascal
Siakam and O Giannaobi there, like you

1211
01:17:24,720 --> 01:17:28,960
can actually do some stuff, but
then there's also the pull of well's this

1212
01:17:29,119 --> 01:17:32,039
the summer to even do that,
because I mentioned Deil Gallinari and Fred van

1213
01:17:32,119 --> 01:17:35,279
Fleet, But like after them,
who's worth going to sign and trade route

1214
01:17:35,399 --> 01:17:39,520
for? There's just not a ton
of options. Maybe a Joe Harris if

1215
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:42,479
you could get him. He doesn't
really alleviate the ball handling, but he's

1216
01:17:42,520 --> 01:17:45,520
just imagine him playing next to the
Luca don Chich like just to just imagine

1217
01:17:45,520 --> 01:17:49,279
that. So I understand the Mavericks
want to wait, but like we've heard

1218
01:17:49,319 --> 01:17:53,840
this story before with them when they
had Dirk and like it just didn't work

1219
01:17:53,840 --> 01:17:56,600
out. They went after Darren Williams. They missed on him the first time.

1220
01:17:56,680 --> 01:18:00,720
Dwight Howard they missed on him as
well, and they also get a

1221
01:18:00,720 --> 01:18:02,720
meeting with you know, they were
like tangentially mentioned in one of the lebron

1222
01:18:02,800 --> 01:18:05,800
sweepstakes, I believe, and he
doesn't end up there. And so they

1223
01:18:05,840 --> 01:18:09,800
have been missus historically, and you're
just you know, when you're betting against

1224
01:18:09,800 --> 01:18:13,680
the field, you're probably not going
to get superstar X, Like there are

1225
01:18:13,720 --> 01:18:15,760
just a bunch of other teams that
are going to be interested in It certainly

1226
01:18:15,760 --> 01:18:19,960
helps that if Janness is going to
enter free agency, he's probably not going

1227
01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:23,239
to be traded. Like he isn't
sign the supermats, we know the Bucks

1228
01:18:23,239 --> 01:18:26,800
aren't going to deal him, So
that helps Dallas's case. Still, Luca

1229
01:18:26,840 --> 01:18:30,319
don Chech is great already, like
you were nearing a fifty win pace this

1230
01:18:30,399 --> 01:18:33,479
season. I know there's the element
of will christaus perzinkis remain healthy that works

1231
01:18:33,520 --> 01:18:35,840
both ways. It's well, you
know, then you should wait. But

1232
01:18:35,840 --> 01:18:39,399
then it's like, well, no, you should probably try and get another

1233
01:18:39,479 --> 01:18:42,800
number two for Don Chech right now
so that he's not carrying as big of

1234
01:18:42,840 --> 01:18:46,560
the load, particularly in crunch time. I also subscribe subscribe to the theory

1235
01:18:46,600 --> 01:18:49,359
that if you need cap space,
you can always figure out a way to

1236
01:18:49,359 --> 01:18:53,359
get it. If your honest society, he wants to play for you,

1237
01:18:53,319 --> 01:18:56,159
you'll figure out a way to make
it happen, like you'll just you'll do

1238
01:18:56,199 --> 01:18:58,479
it if he wants to play for
you. So I'm not as worried about

1239
01:18:58,479 --> 01:19:00,920
coming up there twenty twenty one books. And then here's the other thing.

1240
01:19:01,520 --> 01:19:05,520
He what if Yanna signs the Supermax? I don't think. My gut feeling

1241
01:19:05,600 --> 01:19:09,239
is that he won't, But that's
just a gut feeling. Let's say he

1242
01:19:09,319 --> 01:19:13,039
does, though, are you really
waiting until twenty twenty one? Because you

1243
01:19:13,079 --> 01:19:15,319
know, Kawhi Leonard and Paul George
have player options and Lebron has a player

1244
01:19:15,359 --> 01:19:20,279
option, it becomes a lot less
intriguing to me that summer. If Yannas

1245
01:19:20,319 --> 01:19:24,960
signs his Supermax, or doesn't look
like he's leaving Milwaukee for that matter,

1246
01:19:25,079 --> 01:19:28,359
and so I feel like they're not
necessarily obligated. But they're a team that

1247
01:19:28,399 --> 01:19:31,000
could end up making this all in
ish play that you wouldn't have expected them

1248
01:19:31,000 --> 01:19:34,800
to make because the assumption is that
they're trying to remain flexible for twenty twenty

1249
01:19:34,880 --> 01:19:40,359
one. So I'm so glad you
mentioned the because nobody's talked about this.

1250
01:19:40,920 --> 01:19:45,439
And so the Heat are one of
the teams, Dallas is another. Anytime

1251
01:19:45,399 --> 01:19:49,239
we've heard it for months, Oh, such and such team doesn't want to

1252
01:19:49,239 --> 01:19:54,039
do anything to tie up long term
money because they're really focused on twenty twenty

1253
01:19:54,039 --> 01:19:57,159
one and that free agent class,
and by that free agent class, there

1254
01:19:57,159 --> 01:20:00,520
are other free there's it's a great
year, but it's jan right, like

1255
01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:03,680
the Heat want Yannis. Toronto wants
the honest. Dallas wants the honest.

1256
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:08,760
That's what that's That's why they're,
you know, theoretically not going to tie

1257
01:20:08,800 --> 01:20:13,640
up long term money. But exactly
as you said, if if a player

1258
01:20:13,680 --> 01:20:16,560
of that level and really like Jannis
is going to decide where he plays,

1259
01:20:16,680 --> 01:20:19,800
it's not like some team that he
doesn't want to go to is gonna trade

1260
01:20:19,800 --> 01:20:23,399
for you know, It's like that's
just not how it works at that level.

1261
01:20:23,720 --> 01:20:27,119
So when he says, hey,
I want to come play in Dallas,

1262
01:20:28,359 --> 01:20:30,680
no problem. We'll do whatever we
can easy. We can move this

1263
01:20:30,720 --> 01:20:33,039
money, no problem. We can
attach a bunch of picks because they're not

1264
01:20:33,039 --> 01:20:35,720
gonna be worth shit anyway, because
we're gonna be so awesome because we have

1265
01:20:35,760 --> 01:20:39,840
Jannis and Luca. But right,
like, it's so easy to move that

1266
01:20:39,880 --> 01:20:42,560
money. So this idea that we're, oh, we're gonna keep the powder

1267
01:20:42,640 --> 01:20:45,119
dry, we're gonna no, no. No. If if you're keeping the

1268
01:20:45,159 --> 01:20:47,840
powder dry for just a general free
agency pursuit, like we want to sign

1269
01:20:48,319 --> 01:20:51,760
you know, a couple starters or
whatever, like, that's fine. But

1270
01:20:51,800 --> 01:20:56,640
if it's there's this one guy and
we think we have a shot at signing

1271
01:20:56,720 --> 01:21:01,800
him, like there's no, it's
totally different situation. So yeah, I

1272
01:21:01,800 --> 01:21:06,319
agree they don't need to avoid signing
guys because if it comes down to it,

1273
01:21:06,359 --> 01:21:09,680
they can just do whatever they need
to to get rid of them and

1274
01:21:09,720 --> 01:21:14,359
signing on this. But with that
said, I do think that Dallas is

1275
01:21:14,399 --> 01:21:17,560
actually they do have all those like
all those contracts you mentioned are so team

1276
01:21:17,560 --> 01:21:23,079
friendly, and I do think that
their position to you know, be at

1277
01:21:23,119 --> 01:21:25,319
least as good as they were this
year, which is to say, like

1278
01:21:25,439 --> 01:21:30,119
kind of not for sure contenders,
but I mean they're close and if you

1279
01:21:30,159 --> 01:21:33,239
probably kind of feel like they're between
point five and one point five players away,

1280
01:21:33,279 --> 01:21:36,279
if that makes any sense, which
is pretty good close. They're really

1281
01:21:36,279 --> 01:21:41,079
close, and so that might just
be, you know, I don't know,

1282
01:21:41,199 --> 01:21:43,840
somebody gets a couple of guys get
a little bit better, and suddenly

1283
01:21:43,840 --> 01:21:46,319
you've made up that point five to
one point five player gap and you get

1284
01:21:46,319 --> 01:21:49,199
a little lucky and you know another
can you know they could be in the

1285
01:21:49,199 --> 01:21:55,359
conference finals if they don't do anything
like that wouldn't be remotely surprising next year,

1286
01:21:56,319 --> 01:21:59,800
So you know, just going out
willie nilly and just you know,

1287
01:22:00,159 --> 01:22:03,079
let's you know, Lucas great Now, we gotta we gotta maximize this roster.

1288
01:22:03,439 --> 01:22:10,199
I do think you have to at
least balance that against let's make sure

1289
01:22:10,399 --> 01:22:13,520
we're keeping you know, the first
thing, the first thing here, which

1290
01:22:13,560 --> 01:22:15,079
is getting honest. And like you
said, they probably aren't going to get

1291
01:22:15,119 --> 01:22:18,479
him just because you always take the
field, especially when Dallas is involved,

1292
01:22:18,479 --> 01:22:23,079
because their history is just they just
don't seem to measure up to other teams

1293
01:22:23,439 --> 01:22:26,399
in free agency. But yeah,
I'm glad you made that point. That

1294
01:22:26,479 --> 01:22:30,159
was something I was going to bring
up this idea of let's let's keep the

1295
01:22:30,199 --> 01:22:33,840
books clear, because that, just
to me is totally just misses the point

1296
01:22:33,840 --> 01:22:38,880
of like how big name players actually
end up on teams that they want to

1297
01:22:38,880 --> 01:22:42,239
play for. And I will say, I like the idea of Fred van

1298
01:22:42,319 --> 01:22:45,399
Fleet in Dallas a great deal just
because he doesn't hurt your defense. If

1299
01:22:45,399 --> 01:22:47,760
anything, he's going to help it
where Dallas not gonna help you get stopped,

1300
01:22:47,760 --> 01:22:50,119
even though I think that he could
be exactly what you need as well.

1301
01:22:50,159 --> 01:22:51,920
But if you can work if Toronto
is just like, well, we

1302
01:22:51,920 --> 01:22:56,279
don't want to pay van Fleet,
you know, between eighteen and twenty three

1303
01:22:56,319 --> 01:23:00,760
million dollars a year, like whatever
ends up being like there are some signing

1304
01:23:00,760 --> 01:23:02,399
trade scenarios there, and he feels
like he would be the perfect fit for

1305
01:23:03,119 --> 01:23:05,239
Dallas, and it's looked, like
you said, at this level, I

1306
01:23:05,239 --> 01:23:09,000
don't think with Jannie, you don't
need to worry about having caps based in

1307
01:23:09,000 --> 01:23:11,039
an event, you'll figure out a
way to get it if he wants to

1308
01:23:11,039 --> 01:23:15,039
play for your team, can we
I want to do one more? I

1309
01:23:15,039 --> 01:23:17,199
don't know if you know not the
flagship teams like this is this is what

1310
01:23:17,319 --> 01:23:19,600
I wanted to get to if you
are you done? Are you done on

1311
01:23:19,680 --> 01:23:23,439
Dallas? You got anything else on
them? No? Nothing else on them?

1312
01:23:23,520 --> 01:23:29,159
So let's talk about the Nuggets.
And so for me like looking at

1313
01:23:29,199 --> 01:23:31,880
trades and like what, you know, what where could Oladipo wind up or

1314
01:23:31,880 --> 01:23:35,920
where could Drew holiday or where could
Bill end up to? Like you just

1315
01:23:36,159 --> 01:23:40,680
you know, look and I know
that I think it was today or yesterday

1316
01:23:41,000 --> 01:23:44,000
there was a report about the Nuggets. Have said like, don't even ask

1317
01:23:44,119 --> 01:23:47,039
about Michael Porter Junior, like off
the table, not just no way,

1318
01:23:47,239 --> 01:23:50,239
which again same thing with the Wizards
and Bill like of course you say that

1319
01:23:50,359 --> 01:23:54,319
like that, that's that's how you
keep a player's value high, and you

1320
01:23:54,560 --> 01:23:59,000
make teams make dumber offers than they
otherwise would. But you just have Porter

1321
01:23:59,119 --> 01:24:02,279
Junior and the Gary Harris contract and
some filler and like suddenly Denver is in

1322
01:24:02,319 --> 01:24:06,800
play for absolutely anybody. You know
that it is possibly going to be moved,

1323
01:24:08,880 --> 01:24:14,000
and basically if you're replacing Gary Harris, who just you know, seemed

1324
01:24:14,039 --> 01:24:16,159
like a huge value when he signed
that contract a few years ago and then

1325
01:24:16,319 --> 01:24:20,800
was borderline unplayable for like the last
year plus of it, partly because of

1326
01:24:20,840 --> 01:24:26,199
injury, but like if you upgrade
Gary Harris in that rotation with someone like

1327
01:24:26,439 --> 01:24:30,279
the best version of Oladipot or Holiday
or Beal, Like, now we're really

1328
01:24:30,319 --> 01:24:32,880
talking about something with Nuggets And I
get it that Porter Jr. Is is

1329
01:24:32,920 --> 01:24:36,600
kind of a lottery ticket and looked
so good. But like if if this

1330
01:24:36,640 --> 01:24:41,520
is going to get you over the
top right now, which maybe those guys

1331
01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:46,479
would, Denver to me is kind
of this sneaky, sensible landing spot for

1332
01:24:46,560 --> 01:24:50,319
like almost any of these guards and
wings that could potentially be on offer.

1333
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:56,720
And you know that's to say nothing
of the Jeremy Grant player option situation,

1334
01:24:57,079 --> 01:25:00,439
Paul Millsap's future with the team or
non future You're depending on you know what

1335
01:25:00,600 --> 01:25:03,800
shakes out there. But Denver I
think has a lot has a potentially very

1336
01:25:03,840 --> 01:25:08,720
interesting offseason depending on how aggressive it
wants to get. Yeah, I'm with

1337
01:25:08,800 --> 01:25:12,279
you. I'm just I give up
MPJ if it's for Beal, I don't

1338
01:25:12,279 --> 01:25:15,159
give him up for Ola Depot.
I'm on the fence about Drue Holiday,

1339
01:25:15,359 --> 01:25:19,039
Like can you get it feels like
you would need to get like Josh hardback

1340
01:25:19,319 --> 01:25:23,880
in that deal as well for me, But it's also complicated by the fact

1341
01:25:23,920 --> 01:25:27,359
that Gary Harris is a great salary
filler, but he's not really on his

1342
01:25:27,399 --> 01:25:30,279
contract isn't considered positive value anymore.
And if you're Denver, you don't have

1343
01:25:30,479 --> 01:25:35,119
like these other top notch picks to
just throw in there, or even prospects

1344
01:25:35,119 --> 01:25:39,359
like yeah, bow bowl is kind
of novel at this point, that's fine,

1345
01:25:39,399 --> 01:25:42,239
but your your own future picks are
not going to be worth all that

1346
01:25:42,359 --> 01:25:45,279
much to other teams. And so
it feels like if you want to acquire

1347
01:25:45,359 --> 01:25:47,720
that swing piece, you almost have
to include MPJ because I'm like trying to

1348
01:25:47,800 --> 01:25:53,159
rack my brain for you know,
what is Gary Harris and just what are

1349
01:25:53,159 --> 01:25:56,840
going to end up being low to
mid end of picks, Like where as

1350
01:25:56,880 --> 01:25:58,760
that as a framework, like where
does that get you? Does it?

1351
01:25:58,800 --> 01:26:00,479
Maybe it's enough to get your old
which case I would rather do that,

1352
01:26:00,560 --> 01:26:03,920
and then you could still hang on
to MPJ. But if you want to

1353
01:26:03,960 --> 01:26:09,720
make the leap that it's going to
take to keep pace with the Lakers and

1354
01:26:09,800 --> 01:26:12,520
the Clippers, if you want to
throw the rockets in their fine, or

1355
01:26:12,560 --> 01:26:15,760
even just to hold fend off the
up and comers like the Pelicans, maybe

1356
01:26:15,840 --> 01:26:19,039
like the Suns. It's something that
You're absolutely gonna have to consider. And

1357
01:26:19,039 --> 01:26:24,319
look, teams were worried about his
injury history before he was drafted, and

1358
01:26:24,880 --> 01:26:28,000
maybe you have to read into the
fact that he was talking about or hinting

1359
01:26:28,039 --> 01:26:30,359
at, even a little bit in
the playoffs not getting enough shots at some

1360
01:26:30,439 --> 01:26:33,800
point. And then you also just
don't have necessarily the Maybe during the regular

1361
01:26:33,800 --> 01:26:36,439
season you could play him more.
You definitely could, but do you have

1362
01:26:36,479 --> 01:26:41,159
the stomach for his learning curve on
defense? They are like Knights where it

1363
01:26:41,159 --> 01:26:43,079
looks like he's going to be a
pretty good help defender, and then there

1364
01:26:43,079 --> 01:26:45,520
are Knights where he just looks lost. I know that's part of the youngster

1365
01:26:45,600 --> 01:26:49,159
experience. But if you're Denver and
you don't have like you just don't have

1366
01:26:49,359 --> 01:26:54,279
lockdown defense to begin with, and
you could lose Paul millsap, you could

1367
01:26:54,279 --> 01:26:58,560
in theory lose Jeremy Grant this offseason
and won't necessarily get easier to navigate the

1368
01:26:58,640 --> 01:27:01,399
minutes with MPJA on the floor either. Yeah, that's so I think any

1369
01:27:01,439 --> 01:27:06,520
deal depends on so obviously, I
think this might sound crazy like three years

1370
01:27:06,520 --> 01:27:10,600
from now if he's made two All
Star Games and has a scoring title by

1371
01:27:10,600 --> 01:27:13,479
then, But like I think you
might be selling You're you're selling high on

1372
01:27:13,520 --> 01:27:17,800
Porter Junior because of the breakout in
the bubble and you're you're no, no

1373
01:27:17,920 --> 01:27:23,359
Gary Harris deal happened, Like MPJ
is the deal. Like that's that's why

1374
01:27:23,920 --> 01:27:26,560
a team, you know, with
a veteran that it's looking to move would

1375
01:27:26,600 --> 01:27:30,479
do would even consider this, And
they'd have to believe that this guy is

1376
01:27:30,520 --> 01:27:33,159
going to be our leading scorer or
at the very least like an awesome number

1377
01:27:33,199 --> 01:27:38,600
two option that will a stay healthy
and b continue to be like mostly not

1378
01:27:38,760 --> 01:27:42,640
terrible on defense. You know,
the majority of the time, I do

1379
01:27:42,720 --> 01:27:45,840
think you know, I actually so, I think we agree that Beal is

1380
01:27:45,880 --> 01:27:48,920
just you know, the average thirty
a game. He's kind of a He's

1381
01:27:49,000 --> 01:27:53,520
probably at the top of the list
of guys you could get. But if

1382
01:27:53,520 --> 01:27:57,760
you do bring Grant back and you
have Drew Holiday, that's forty percent of

1383
01:27:57,840 --> 01:28:01,359
you're starting five. That's like pretty
nasty defense. Pibly and and I think,

1384
01:28:01,439 --> 01:28:03,760
you know, depending on you know, if you have Tory Craig in

1385
01:28:03,800 --> 01:28:06,680
there, who actually I think he's
also a free agent, so you know,

1386
01:28:06,800 --> 01:28:12,159
not exactly high on the list of
fascinating Denver options, but you know,

1387
01:28:12,239 --> 01:28:15,199
you can get away with having to
sort of change your schemes every other

1388
01:28:15,319 --> 01:28:19,720
quarter to to make sure Yokich isn't
getting you know, you know, use

1389
01:28:19,800 --> 01:28:24,960
the wrong way in a playoff series. I you know, so to me

1390
01:28:25,840 --> 01:28:28,279
if I don't know if the Pelicans
would have any interest, but if you're

1391
01:28:28,279 --> 01:28:32,479
just starting of Porter Junior Harris and
maybe you have to throw in one of

1392
01:28:32,520 --> 01:28:38,560
their unimpressive picks for Holiday. I
mean, you know, maybe Porter Junior

1393
01:28:38,640 --> 01:28:43,399
and and Ingram are a little like
there's some overlap there, but you know

1394
01:28:44,000 --> 01:28:45,560
that's a that's a starting point at
least for me, and I think Holiday

1395
01:28:45,600 --> 01:28:50,880
makes a ton of sense, just
specifically him in Denver. And look,

1396
01:28:50,920 --> 01:28:55,000
the upside of selling high on MPJA
because of what he did in the bubble

1397
01:28:55,039 --> 01:28:58,439
is maybe you don't have to include
that extra asset to do it where it's

1398
01:28:58,479 --> 01:29:02,319
just I think Haas and Porter Junior
get you there financially for Drew Holiday.

1399
01:29:02,359 --> 01:29:05,159
If it doesn't, you know,
you have you're not gonna want to give

1400
01:29:05,239 --> 01:29:10,119
up Monte Morris in that deal,
but you actually they do not have just

1401
01:29:10,159 --> 01:29:14,079
like these expendable contracts, you don't
want to give up Will Barton kata Bag's

1402
01:29:14,159 --> 01:29:15,600
job would be you know, not
gas that you can throw them in there,

1403
01:29:15,640 --> 01:29:20,560
so like that maybe that's the that's
one of the benefits is that you

1404
01:29:20,600 --> 01:29:25,279
don't have to include all this other
stuff with MPJ, Like he's just the

1405
01:29:25,680 --> 01:29:29,039
framework. I will say, though, if you get rid of Gary Harris,

1406
01:29:29,640 --> 01:29:32,239
like I don't know that Drew Holiday
is probably not worse equipped to defend

1407
01:29:32,279 --> 01:29:34,680
wings. Maybe he's a little bit
better, but like I don't you're not.

1408
01:29:35,079 --> 01:29:39,079
Like that's where you get into this
what you're giving up, like how

1409
01:29:39,119 --> 01:29:42,560
much you're actually replacing, Like,
yeah, you get more shot creation from

1410
01:29:42,600 --> 01:29:45,560
Drew Holiday, but like you've lost
Gary Harris's defense as well. It feels

1411
01:29:45,560 --> 01:29:50,079
like you've almost rolled the functionality of
MPJ and Gary Harris into one player,

1412
01:29:50,600 --> 01:29:53,840
and I don't know how much that
actually does for you, which is why

1413
01:29:53,880 --> 01:29:57,720
Denver's in in such a weird spot. It feels like it needs to look

1414
01:29:57,760 --> 01:30:03,119
for an opportunity to where they don't
have to play their best chips at once,

1415
01:30:03,199 --> 01:30:05,920
if that makes any sense. Yeah, No, I think I just

1416
01:30:05,920 --> 01:30:11,640
would say I think Holiday isn't I
would do it upgrade on On Harris defensively,

1417
01:30:11,680 --> 01:30:15,840
specifically, I think you can use
Holiday to guard you know, you

1418
01:30:15,920 --> 01:30:20,039
look when when in in the you
know, he guards Kevin Durant like that,

1419
01:30:20,239 --> 01:30:23,520
like he not. You know,
that's partly because of the Pelicans just

1420
01:30:23,560 --> 01:30:25,880
didn't have a better option. But
Holiday, I think you can get away

1421
01:30:25,880 --> 01:30:29,760
with on a lot of you know
all but the biggest wings I think would

1422
01:30:29,800 --> 01:30:33,479
be would be doable for him and
you know, maybe more switchable even than

1423
01:30:33,520 --> 01:30:36,199
Harris if you're having him chased around
small guys. But but yeah, no,

1424
01:30:36,359 --> 01:30:40,119
I don't know that. That's that's
my my Denver spiel. Which I

1425
01:30:40,159 --> 01:30:44,600
think is also helpful because it's another
non you know, coastal, you know,

1426
01:30:44,800 --> 01:30:47,640
huge market team. So I had
two non huge market teams next to

1427
01:30:47,640 --> 01:30:51,119
each other because it feels like they're
the even though they're not the same team,

1428
01:30:51,159 --> 01:30:54,920
but they're in different conferences and it
feels like they're in the same situation.

1429
01:30:55,159 --> 01:30:59,079
I've Atlanta and Phoenix because it's like
Atlanta's record doesn't show it. They

1430
01:30:59,119 --> 01:31:01,279
weren't in the bubble, the have
that magical ato run like Phoenix did.

1431
01:31:01,439 --> 01:31:05,159
Please feel like two teams that are
the ones that are going to be looking

1432
01:31:05,199 --> 01:31:11,479
to make the biggest leaps in their
conferences. Among the lottery teams, or

1433
01:31:11,560 --> 01:31:15,359
the clearly what you might have considered
rebuilding teams, or the clearly non playoff

1434
01:31:15,359 --> 01:31:18,000
teams entering last season. And I'll
start with Atlanta just they have the most

1435
01:31:18,039 --> 01:31:21,000
cap space in the league. They
can easily get the forty plus million.

1436
01:31:21,079 --> 01:31:24,880
I know this isn't the summer to
spend it, but like if you come

1437
01:31:24,880 --> 01:31:28,079
out of this and you've you know, maybe you've drummed up the price on

1438
01:31:28,119 --> 01:31:31,199
like some restricted free agents, but
like if you can get a Joe Harris

1439
01:31:31,199 --> 01:31:34,039
out of this offseason they were the
worst three point shooting team in the league

1440
01:31:34,399 --> 01:31:38,640
last year, that ends up being
just an absolutely huge deal. Can you

1441
01:31:38,680 --> 01:31:41,399
even get in the mix for like
a you know, a Marcus Morris.

1442
01:31:41,479 --> 01:31:44,119
Can you get them out of LA
because of the money you have? Like

1443
01:31:44,159 --> 01:31:45,800
there are things that they could do
or maybe they're giving out these huge one

1444
01:31:45,880 --> 01:31:48,920
year deals that players might even want
to accept. And then the other thing

1445
01:31:49,000 --> 01:31:53,560
kind of staring them in the face
is that they're primed to make a trade

1446
01:31:53,600 --> 01:31:56,800
if they want. They have the
cap space to those lopsided deals. They

1447
01:31:56,800 --> 01:31:59,920
also have Dwayne Deadman's salary if you
want to get into salary matching. John

1448
01:32:00,079 --> 01:32:03,720
Collins is extension eligible you traded for
Clint Capella. Already those two fit on

1449
01:32:03,800 --> 01:32:08,560
offense, but I feel like there's
overlap on defense, just in the sense

1450
01:32:08,560 --> 01:32:12,239
of where you might want to hide
Collins in certain instances. So are you

1451
01:32:12,279 --> 01:32:15,039
willing to move Collins? And you
have the number six pick, you have

1452
01:32:15,079 --> 01:32:16,880
the OKAYC twenty twenty two pick,
you have your future picks, you have

1453
01:32:16,960 --> 01:32:21,479
DeAndre Hunter, you have Kevin Herder, you have Cam Reddish. Like they

1454
01:32:21,520 --> 01:32:26,000
could do some things like where you
spend a ton of money in free agency

1455
01:32:26,000 --> 01:32:29,279
and then just turn around and trade
for a marquish name as well. And

1456
01:32:29,279 --> 01:32:30,640
I'm not saying they're gonna go out
there and get Bravy Peal. That would

1457
01:32:30,640 --> 01:32:33,119
be you know, that's not really
gonna help their defense. But they're not

1458
01:32:33,159 --> 01:32:38,319
talked about as a Drew holiday destination, and he would be absolutely perfect for

1459
01:32:38,359 --> 01:32:41,600
them. Maybe they're one of the
teams that's willing to buy medium will say,

1460
01:32:41,720 --> 01:32:45,720
I'm Victor Oladipo. He absolutely works
there. So I just feel like

1461
01:32:45,760 --> 01:32:48,119
they're a team that's set up to
do some stuff. I don't know what

1462
01:32:48,159 --> 01:32:51,960
it is, but if someone's going
to make a splash in free agency,

1463
01:32:54,319 --> 01:32:57,239
they're like sort of it For me, I'm like the non sign and trade

1464
01:32:57,279 --> 01:32:59,640
splash, I'll say, just because
they have so much cap space, and

1465
01:32:59,680 --> 01:33:03,319
I'm like Charlotte unlike Detroit, unlike
even New York. I feel like Atlanta

1466
01:33:03,439 --> 01:33:09,119
has the incentive or is at least
looking to win now more so than people

1467
01:33:09,159 --> 01:33:12,279
are really talking about. Whether that's
within reach is a different story, but

1468
01:33:12,279 --> 01:33:14,800
I feel like that's their mindset,
and then you could of course throw Miami

1469
01:33:14,960 --> 01:33:16,720
in there. But I like view
them as a non cap space team at

1470
01:33:16,720 --> 01:33:20,439
this point because I just assume that
they're going to try and float these bloated

1471
01:33:20,479 --> 01:33:25,920
one year deals toward Draggit and Jay
Crowder. Yeah, no, I agree.

1472
01:33:26,000 --> 01:33:30,159
I think I totally agree lumping them
and the Suns together. But it's

1473
01:33:30,199 --> 01:33:32,640
it's kind of shitty timing for the
Hawks because they are I think, I

1474
01:33:32,640 --> 01:33:35,439
think it's pretty clear that they're going
to try to make the playoffs this year,

1475
01:33:36,119 --> 01:33:41,800
and they, like in a vacuum, have the room and have the

1476
01:33:41,800 --> 01:33:45,960
assets to do. Like Will Dwayne
Deadman is essentially an expiring contract because he's

1477
01:33:45,000 --> 01:33:49,000
partially guaranteed on twenty one twenty two
salary. That's thirteen million you could use

1478
01:33:49,079 --> 01:33:51,720
to not that they have to do
this because they have all that cap space

1479
01:33:51,800 --> 01:33:56,239
to take in lopsided trades. But
like they even have that, they even

1480
01:33:56,279 --> 01:34:00,800
have that salary to throw out there
to another team. It's just like,

1481
01:34:00,319 --> 01:34:06,319
I don't see who in you know, free agency specifically that they could realistically

1482
01:34:06,359 --> 01:34:11,600
get that would you know, make
make it sort of worth their while to

1483
01:34:11,720 --> 01:34:15,760
burn through all these assets and flexibility. So I what you said about a

1484
01:34:15,800 --> 01:34:19,840
bunch of one year deals where you
just overpay guys, I think that actually,

1485
01:34:19,880 --> 01:34:24,279
which is weird to think about because
the Hawks are I think of them

1486
01:34:24,279 --> 01:34:27,399
as a young team still, like
they're really in position to do that.

1487
01:34:28,000 --> 01:34:30,239
And actually, as I think about
it more now, there might be a

1488
01:34:30,319 --> 01:34:34,880
market for a lot of guys that
you know Atlanta. You know, going

1489
01:34:34,920 --> 01:34:38,720
to Atlanta is not the same as
well, I'm just gonna take the Knicks

1490
01:34:38,760 --> 01:34:41,119
cap space, or you know,
I'm gonna sign there. I'm gonna you

1491
01:34:41,159 --> 01:34:45,119
know, Charlotte or or Detroit or
whatever, you know, all these other

1492
01:34:45,159 --> 01:34:46,840
teams that have a little bit to
spend. Atlanta, and I think,

1493
01:34:46,880 --> 01:34:51,640
you know, is probably regarded fairly
highly among NBA players as like a decent

1494
01:34:51,640 --> 01:34:56,760
place to be and they're going to
try to make the playoffs. They have

1495
01:34:56,800 --> 01:35:00,319
Trey Young, that's interesting. Clint
Capella adds, like stability in the middle,

1496
01:35:00,399 --> 01:35:04,359
Collins can play. They might be
in a good spot to just spend

1497
01:35:04,720 --> 01:35:08,720
hopefully not lock it up for next
year, even though we just spend a

1498
01:35:08,720 --> 01:35:11,680
bunch of time talking about like don't
try to keep your powder dry, because

1499
01:35:11,680 --> 01:35:15,720
that's not a thing. But I
think they're in a situation where it's almost

1500
01:35:15,760 --> 01:35:19,920
unfortunate that they have all these avenues
to add talent in this particular off season

1501
01:35:20,079 --> 01:35:25,119
because because the talent just like is
in shorter supply, and it typically is.

1502
01:35:25,600 --> 01:35:29,159
But yeah, they're they're pretty interesting. I will be curious to see

1503
01:35:30,000 --> 01:35:33,399
if my gut says that they they
just aren't going to be able to go

1504
01:35:33,560 --> 01:35:38,399
sign like Van Vleet doesn't make sense, really, I don't think, or

1505
01:35:38,439 --> 01:35:40,479
maybe he does. I don't know. I think he does. I mean,

1506
01:35:40,520 --> 01:35:44,439
you're small on the back court then, but he's definitely ball handling relief

1507
01:35:44,479 --> 01:35:47,239
from Trey Young. But we've seen
him play alongside Kyle Lowry, who's clearly

1508
01:35:47,239 --> 01:35:50,479
a better defender, but like he
can he can guard either the one or

1509
01:35:50,520 --> 01:35:55,279
the two. Yeah, I think
you know, it's funny, like Phoenix

1510
01:35:55,359 --> 01:35:58,439
is always the hey, you know
who, you know, you know where,

1511
01:35:58,640 --> 01:36:00,600
like everybody from Van Leaked to like
Chris Paul. It's like, you

1512
01:36:00,600 --> 01:36:03,279
know who you know would be a
good spot for him, Phoenix. It's

1513
01:36:03,319 --> 01:36:06,840
actually kind of true of Atlanta too. It's they really are very much linked

1514
01:36:06,840 --> 01:36:11,680
those two. Atlanta could basically take
Chris Paul in the cap space to write

1515
01:36:11,760 --> 01:36:15,600
if they want to. I mean
that makes less than zero sense for them,

1516
01:36:15,680 --> 01:36:18,119
but like that, they could definitely
do that. Yeah, I don't

1517
01:36:18,119 --> 01:36:23,720
know. The Sun's to pivot a
little bit. I think just like the

1518
01:36:23,760 --> 01:36:27,319
Hawks, you know, and especially
with this sort of fuel now from the

1519
01:36:27,319 --> 01:36:31,399
bubble performance, you know, I
they could really get some interesting stuff done

1520
01:36:31,439 --> 01:36:34,479
with Kelly Uberio's contract if they wanted
to throw him in. I think,

1521
01:36:34,560 --> 01:36:39,840
what do they have the tenth pick
and they have some cap space, could

1522
01:36:39,840 --> 01:36:43,600
get more if they renounced their holds
on I think it's Banes and Sarich both,

1523
01:36:44,239 --> 01:36:46,920
so they have a lot of avenues
too. And you know, I

1524
01:36:46,960 --> 01:36:49,079
wonder, what do you think,
all things being equal, if you're a

1525
01:36:49,079 --> 01:36:53,319
free agent and either the Sons or
the Hawks come to you and say,

1526
01:36:53,359 --> 01:36:58,359
like here's this balloon deal or that's
probably much less possible for the Suns than

1527
01:36:58,640 --> 01:37:01,600
the Hawks. But where are you? Where are you more interested in playing

1528
01:37:01,600 --> 01:37:04,920
of those two teams if you're a
free agent. I think Atlanta just because

1529
01:37:04,960 --> 01:37:09,199
there's a clearer path to playoffs for
them, and they might even be the

1530
01:37:09,279 --> 01:37:13,079
clearly inferior team to Phoenix. But
the West is just I mean, who

1531
01:37:13,119 --> 01:37:16,439
are you bumping? From the playoff
picture that made it this year? Maybe

1532
01:37:16,560 --> 01:37:19,159
we'll assume okay, see, but
after that, who are you bumping?

1533
01:37:19,520 --> 01:37:24,000
And that's it? You still have
you know, san Antonio might still be

1534
01:37:24,000 --> 01:37:26,439
there, but more importantly, there's
gonna be Portland and New Orleans are going

1535
01:37:26,520 --> 01:37:29,880
to be right there on top of
Phoenix. Then Golden State is coming back

1536
01:37:29,920 --> 01:37:32,760
as well in Memphis. I mean, you know that's a possibility they're going

1537
01:37:32,840 --> 01:37:36,199
to be there or potentially a little
bit better too. I actually think they're

1538
01:37:36,239 --> 01:37:40,479
going to be worse. I think
they were smart in the sense. I'm

1539
01:37:40,520 --> 01:37:43,640
not sure how the Justice Swinsel trades
will pan out, but I liked it.

1540
01:37:43,680 --> 01:37:45,119
They kind of got rid of their
cap space in that way because it

1541
01:37:45,159 --> 01:37:47,920
prevents them from reading too much into
the season. I think that they're going

1542
01:37:48,000 --> 01:37:50,840
to find their further away than they're
supposed to be, and maybe I'll just

1543
01:37:50,840 --> 01:37:55,600
be clearly wrong. Perhaps Brandon Clark
and jam Jackson Junior and John Moran are

1544
01:37:55,600 --> 01:37:59,319
just monstrous, but they seem to
be missing like two to three big pieces

1545
01:37:59,319 --> 01:38:02,199
for me to view them as this
major threat in the Western Conference. Well,

1546
01:38:02,199 --> 01:38:06,920
and maybe a situation too where they
actually get better but it doesn't show

1547
01:38:08,000 --> 01:38:10,920
because all the other teams around them
got so much better too, and they,

1548
01:38:11,159 --> 01:38:13,239
you know, they end up looking
worse. I feel like that happens.

1549
01:38:13,359 --> 01:38:15,560
And always there's always a team like
that every year that you know got

1550
01:38:15,600 --> 01:38:19,760
better but you couldn't tell, you
know, yeah, that's true. Really

1551
01:38:19,800 --> 01:38:23,000
quickly friendly you go the other team
that I had on my list. I'm

1552
01:38:23,000 --> 01:38:25,920
not sure if you had any other
teams. There was Toronto as well,

1553
01:38:26,079 --> 01:38:29,680
just because we kind of talked about
this already, But you have Abaca Gussol

1554
01:38:30,840 --> 01:38:34,119
and Chris Bouche, my guy Chris. They're free agents, and then fred

1555
01:38:34,159 --> 01:38:38,359
Man fleets to free agent as well, and it's like they were just one

1556
01:38:38,399 --> 01:38:42,880
win away from the Eastern Conference finals. I could see their off season going

1557
01:38:42,880 --> 01:38:45,680
in so many different directions where it's, hey, let's try and balloon payment

1558
01:38:45,720 --> 01:38:47,319
these guys. For a year and
just run it back. Do we keep

1559
01:38:47,359 --> 01:38:49,920
only one of those three? Two
of those three, none of those three?

1560
01:38:49,960 --> 01:38:53,760
What happens if you keep none of
those three? Like, are you

1561
01:38:54,039 --> 01:38:56,840
then are you looking at offers for
Kyle Lowry? You have cataspace? Then

1562
01:38:56,840 --> 01:38:59,279
are you looking to spend it on
anyone? Who are you going to spend

1563
01:38:59,279 --> 01:39:00,880
it on in this office season?
If you bring everybody back like well,

1564
01:39:00,920 --> 01:39:03,439
you still might have access to your
mid level exception. Who are you going

1565
01:39:03,479 --> 01:39:06,159
to use that on? But wait, you want to conserve twenty twenty one

1566
01:39:06,159 --> 01:39:10,159
cast space as well? Is that
going to prevent you from adding anybody?

1567
01:39:10,319 --> 01:39:13,159
And they're not really set up to
make any big buy now trades, I

1568
01:39:13,199 --> 01:39:16,079
would say, because you would have
to give up an anobi and I guess

1569
01:39:16,119 --> 01:39:19,800
future picks, and then you're just
not stocked with salary fadder outside of Norman

1570
01:39:19,840 --> 01:39:24,760
Powell, which the sheer number of
free agents they have, and the breath

1571
01:39:24,920 --> 01:39:29,319
of different ways in which their offseason
could play out. It really just intrigues

1572
01:39:29,359 --> 01:39:32,279
me and a lot of people when
they talk about Kyle Lowry, they assume

1573
01:39:32,319 --> 01:39:35,439
it was the same thing last summer. Everyone's not everyone, but there were

1574
01:39:35,439 --> 01:39:39,079
a ton of people that thought the
Raptors weren't going to go for it,

1575
01:39:39,159 --> 01:39:43,039
and they just still feel like a
team to me that regardless of what happens

1576
01:39:43,039 --> 01:39:45,520
with their free agents, that they're
still going to try to go for it

1577
01:39:45,600 --> 01:39:49,039
next season. Yeah, I think
that. I think what is probably gonna

1578
01:39:49,039 --> 01:39:53,279
happen is they're going to kind of
tow the line. I think my gut

1579
01:39:53,359 --> 01:39:56,640
is that Van Vleet will be back. I think they'll pay, you know,

1580
01:39:56,800 --> 01:40:00,279
pay what it takes to keep him. It sounds like Gasol's going to

1581
01:40:00,359 --> 01:40:03,319
be gone, but I don't know
how much that actually matters, just based

1582
01:40:03,359 --> 01:40:06,439
on how he looked towards the end
for them, like, you know,

1583
01:40:06,760 --> 01:40:11,600
pretty close to unplayable if he's not
going to be making perimeter shots, and

1584
01:40:11,840 --> 01:40:15,239
he wasn't. I think Abaka is
actually maybe the most telltale piece and all

1585
01:40:15,279 --> 01:40:18,880
that, because if they bring him
back on I don't know what the number

1586
01:40:18,920 --> 01:40:21,479
would be, but if it's for
more than if it's say like a three

1587
01:40:21,560 --> 01:40:27,439
year deal, then I think they're
just going to kind of let's let's organically

1588
01:40:27,880 --> 01:40:31,319
let's keep who we've got, let's
organically ride this out, and then maybe

1589
01:40:31,359 --> 01:40:35,640
as soon as Lowry's deal is up
in a year, it'll be Siakam and

1590
01:40:35,680 --> 01:40:41,399
Annobe and van Fleet just kind of
transition into the sort of next core of

1591
01:40:41,439 --> 01:40:44,680
this team, even though to a
large extent they sort of already are.

1592
01:40:45,560 --> 01:40:47,600
But but and then they'll just kind
of diminish the roles of the aging guys

1593
01:40:47,640 --> 01:40:53,479
and just kind of it'll be sort
of a natural transition. But I do

1594
01:40:53,520 --> 01:40:57,000
think there's a possibility that, you
know, they're going to look at this

1595
01:40:57,079 --> 01:41:00,640
and say, well, we got
Siakam, we got him locked in.

1596
01:41:00,039 --> 01:41:03,520
Annonobi, I think is a big
timekeeper. Van Fleet is there, but

1597
01:41:03,600 --> 01:41:06,319
everybody else, you know, maybe
it's time to start looking at how we

1598
01:41:06,399 --> 01:41:10,920
can get on the timeline of those
other three guys and not not the van

1599
01:41:11,000 --> 01:41:14,640
Fleet or Sakam are particularly young,
but they're certainly younger than you know,

1600
01:41:14,800 --> 01:41:20,239
the Ibaka Lowry Gasol Corps. So
I don't think I'm going to keep coming

1601
01:41:20,239 --> 01:41:24,119
back to like, man, could
you imagine Kyle Lowery on some other like

1602
01:41:24,159 --> 01:41:28,399
what he could do, just like
how much he would help. But but

1603
01:41:28,600 --> 01:41:31,119
I think it's gonna be like a
gentle transition. I think that'll take a

1604
01:41:31,159 --> 01:41:34,479
couple of years, and before you
know, you'll you'll wake up in twenty

1605
01:41:34,520 --> 01:41:38,520
twenty two, and it'll just be
the young guys, and you know,

1606
01:41:38,760 --> 01:41:45,600
everybody else will kind of just have
naturally gone gone away. I think I'm

1607
01:41:45,680 --> 01:41:47,680
kind of with you. The actual
final thing I was gonna say when we

1608
01:41:47,680 --> 01:41:50,279
were talking about the Suns is do
you see if they go to the lengths

1609
01:41:50,359 --> 01:41:55,880
to create cap space, like who
makes sense for them? I know you

1610
01:41:55,960 --> 01:41:58,600
kind of mentioned Fred van Fleet,
but I think if you have Rubio and

1611
01:41:58,640 --> 01:42:00,960
Booker already on your books, I
don't know how much sense that actually makes.

1612
01:42:01,479 --> 01:42:05,199
And then, like I know,
Jeremy Grant's been popular, I guess

1613
01:42:05,199 --> 01:42:09,000
I have a tough time believing that
Jeremy Grant's gonna leave Denver just they give

1614
01:42:09,039 --> 01:42:10,840
up the first round pick, they
get him, and he's the guy they

1615
01:42:10,880 --> 01:42:15,399
used to defend Kauai and Lebron and
they don't have anyone to replace that.

1616
01:42:15,840 --> 01:42:17,560
And so this is, you know, you talk about Atlanta in a way,

1617
01:42:17,600 --> 01:42:20,520
this is the offseason for a team
like them to have all these tools

1618
01:42:20,520 --> 01:42:23,840
because a lot of other teams don't. But then when you look at the

1619
01:42:23,840 --> 01:42:27,000
pool of town available, it's not
and Phoenix is sort of in this a

1620
01:42:27,039 --> 01:42:30,159
similar boat. I tell I agree, I would say the same thing.

1621
01:42:30,199 --> 01:42:32,439
I think Van Bleet is the obvious
one, and I think you would have

1622
01:42:32,479 --> 01:42:38,000
to assume that Rubio would they would
move Rubio somehow. I'm not really sure

1623
01:42:38,399 --> 01:42:41,359
where Rubio fits or makes sense.
I think he makes a lot of sense,

1624
01:42:41,359 --> 01:42:45,319
and Phoenix honestly, but Van but
Van Bleet, you know, it

1625
01:42:45,319 --> 01:42:49,800
would be I think an upgrade.
I don't know. I think to me,

1626
01:42:50,640 --> 01:42:55,279
one of the more likely things is
they use Ubre and that tenth pick

1627
01:42:55,319 --> 01:42:58,880
and you know, see if they
could hit the lottery and you know,

1628
01:42:59,399 --> 01:43:04,359
now you got a booker and some
unlikely from this draft anyway, other cornerstone.

1629
01:43:04,760 --> 01:43:08,840
I think that's that's a possibility.
But yeah, there their space.

1630
01:43:09,439 --> 01:43:12,239
You know, we talked about like
they're definitely gonna have it, but there

1631
01:43:12,319 --> 01:43:15,319
is a case to be made.
You just bring Bins and Starge back and

1632
01:43:15,439 --> 01:43:17,680
you startically with the way Sarge played
off the bench in the bubble. Yeah,

1633
01:43:17,760 --> 01:43:21,720
yeah, I think I think maybe
you just go that route and and

1634
01:43:21,840 --> 01:43:26,560
if you know, but if van
Fleet, if he's you know, saying

1635
01:43:26,560 --> 01:43:28,840
hey, I want to come,
then I think you reevaluate. But but

1636
01:43:28,920 --> 01:43:31,960
yeah, the same as Atlanta,
like they're positioned well relative to the rest

1637
01:43:31,960 --> 01:43:34,760
of the league, except that,
like, there's just not enough talent out

1638
01:43:34,800 --> 01:43:38,720
there that makes a lot of sense
for them. Do you do Kelly Uber

1639
01:43:38,880 --> 01:43:45,880
Junior and number ten for Aaron Gordon
and number fifteen? How much better is

1640
01:43:45,920 --> 01:43:48,199
Aaron Gordon than Kelly Yubray? Like, I mean a little bit. I

1641
01:43:48,239 --> 01:43:50,880
think there are some people that argue
he might be a downgrade from them,

1642
01:43:50,880 --> 01:43:55,680
But I like what Gordon does.
Defensively, you'd be banking on because you

1643
01:43:55,720 --> 01:43:59,800
have Eaten there and Rubio. There
is Gordon going to hit enough of his

1644
01:44:00,039 --> 01:44:01,039
rees for it to be a fit. But I also feel like you could

1645
01:44:01,039 --> 01:44:05,000
say the same thing about Kellybridge Jr. A little bit, and Gordon can

1646
01:44:05,079 --> 01:44:08,960
give you some backup minutes of the
five when Eaton's not on the court.

1647
01:44:09,079 --> 01:44:12,760
I actually really like I've been a
very big proponent of I think that Gordon

1648
01:44:12,800 --> 01:44:15,960
would be a great fit in Phoenix, and that's been met with from many

1649
01:44:15,960 --> 01:44:19,800
people with disdain. So I will
say, no, I don't. I

1650
01:44:19,840 --> 01:44:24,039
have no disdain for that. I
just feel like, I know, I

1651
01:44:24,079 --> 01:44:27,319
think you know what. I think
Gordon is a significantly better player than Ubre.

1652
01:44:27,439 --> 01:44:30,039
He's different, and I think what
you're saying is like you need the

1653
01:44:30,159 --> 01:44:36,239
right version of Gordon who is kind
of doing less, trying to be like

1654
01:44:36,279 --> 01:44:40,439
an on ball scoring type of threat, which if you have Devin Booker on

1655
01:44:40,479 --> 01:44:43,600
your team, I don't think I
think it'd be and Rubio two even like

1656
01:44:43,600 --> 01:44:46,720
he really just hasn't played with these
h You know there's boot who's your number

1657
01:44:46,720 --> 01:44:49,159
one option, but he hasn't played
with a wing or even a guard who

1658
01:44:49,359 --> 01:44:54,279
really commands the floor. Mark l
Foltz might be the closest he's come,

1659
01:44:54,359 --> 01:44:57,720
or Evan Fournier like one of those
two. Yeah, so like he hasn't.

1660
01:44:57,920 --> 01:45:00,439
They've almost they've tried to groove him
as a wing. I feel like

1661
01:45:00,439 --> 01:45:02,760
out of necessity and where in Phoenix
they don't need him to be that that

1662
01:45:02,840 --> 01:45:05,640
type of player. And looked the
passing that he showed this year in Orlando,

1663
01:45:05,720 --> 01:45:09,920
like, yeah, that could be
a help. But I really,

1664
01:45:09,920 --> 01:45:12,439
for some reason, just looking at
what he can do defensively, he shot

1665
01:45:12,479 --> 01:45:15,399
a little bit better than his catch
and shoot threes toward the on the latter

1666
01:45:15,439 --> 01:45:16,920
half of this year, I just
feel like Phoenix could end up being a

1667
01:45:17,000 --> 01:45:19,920
really good fit for him. And
I think even if you think Kelly Bride

1668
01:45:19,960 --> 01:45:24,800
Jr. Is better right now,
which is fine. I've Gordon would be

1669
01:45:24,800 --> 01:45:27,760
the higher upside play for me just
because of what he does for the Suns

1670
01:45:27,800 --> 01:45:31,520
defensively compared to Kelly Bray. If
you looked at like the Google analytics of

1671
01:45:31,840 --> 01:45:36,880
players mentioned in trade speculation, would
Aaron Gordon be Like, he's probably behind

1672
01:45:36,960 --> 01:45:41,399
Bill and Holiday and Oladipo now,
but I think Gordon's the top five.

1673
01:45:41,520 --> 01:45:44,399
I think every team is going to
be, like, you know, they

1674
01:45:44,399 --> 01:45:46,479
could talk themselves into him, like
being the missing piece or at least like

1675
01:45:46,520 --> 01:45:49,159
the starter that really fills a bunch
of needs. I feel like he fits

1676
01:45:49,199 --> 01:45:54,279
almost anywhere, especially because his salary
is very reasonable, right, but he's

1677
01:45:54,319 --> 01:45:58,600
also like the level of divisive that
Bravey Beal definitely isn't. And maybe Aladipo's

1678
01:45:58,680 --> 01:46:00,960
there like you still, oh,
we know he's an all star level player.

1679
01:46:01,000 --> 01:46:03,119
You don't know that about Gordon.
And then there are some people who

1680
01:46:03,199 --> 01:46:05,520
might say, you know, they're
at the two sides of defense, Oh,

1681
01:46:05,560 --> 01:46:09,399
two years and thirty four point five
million dollars on a declining scale,

1682
01:46:09,439 --> 01:46:11,720
like that's fantastic, And then other
people are like, oh, two years

1683
01:46:11,760 --> 01:46:15,239
and thirty four point five million dollars
for someone who might not be a top

1684
01:46:15,279 --> 01:46:17,640
seventy five player in any given season, Is that is that really worth it?

1685
01:46:17,680 --> 01:46:21,199
And so there's like that element of
division there that doesn't necessarily exist for

1686
01:46:21,279 --> 01:46:28,199
many of the other most popular trade
speculation targets. I have one last,

1687
01:46:28,840 --> 01:46:32,359
one last question on one team we
haven't talked about at all, and you

1688
01:46:32,399 --> 01:46:36,600
don't need to give a long,
serious answer, But are the Rockets gonna

1689
01:46:36,600 --> 01:46:43,560
blow everything up and just like completely
destroy this team and trade James Harden and

1690
01:46:43,600 --> 01:46:47,399
try to trade Russell Westbrook and just
you know, strip it down. Like

1691
01:46:47,600 --> 01:46:51,239
there's a non zero chance that happens, right, Not not likely, but

1692
01:46:51,399 --> 01:46:56,840
like there's a scenario where like Mike
D'Antoni doesn't walk and Darryl Moray doesn't walk

1693
01:46:56,920 --> 01:47:02,000
if they've been given assurances that we're
going to spend continue to spend way into

1694
01:47:02,039 --> 01:47:05,960
the tax and keep building a winner
and keep being creative and trying to build

1695
01:47:06,000 --> 01:47:12,720
this roster out, right, Like
I feel like it's going to happen,

1696
01:47:12,800 --> 01:47:17,199
but not until next season unless things
just combust by the trade deadline and then

1697
01:47:17,359 --> 01:47:21,920
James Harden and Russell Westbrook both just
won out because I just I don't know

1698
01:47:21,960 --> 01:47:26,439
what the pathway to them actually blowing
it up is like you can move Tucker,

1699
01:47:26,520 --> 01:47:29,039
you can move Covington, and you
could definitely move Harden. I guess

1700
01:47:29,039 --> 01:47:30,279
that concept who's blowing it up,
But I don't know if you could move

1701
01:47:30,720 --> 01:47:34,880
Russ and if he's healthy, Like
that's the pathway to mediocrity in the West

1702
01:47:36,319 --> 01:47:41,479
and for what it's worth for tilm
me for ta set on CNBC the day

1703
01:47:41,479 --> 01:47:44,680
that we're recording this, There's no
reason to blow up our roster. This

1704
01:47:44,760 --> 01:47:46,399
is still our window the next couple
of years. James and Russell are in

1705
01:47:46,399 --> 01:47:49,880
their early thirties. We're not blowing
up anything. We plan on contending.

1706
01:47:49,880 --> 01:47:54,880
We're going to do whatever we have
to to win. We can now cut

1707
01:47:54,920 --> 01:47:59,600
to them miraculously missing the luxury tax
by like thirty seven cents or something exactly.

1708
01:48:00,279 --> 01:48:03,600
You know what I value more than
the owner who's duck the tacks.

1709
01:48:03,640 --> 01:48:08,479
Like from the second he took the
job, is Darryl Moray being like fuck

1710
01:48:08,560 --> 01:48:11,560
this? Yeah? I know,
I know he says that it was to

1711
01:48:11,560 --> 01:48:15,600
spend more time with his family.
I and there might have been the like

1712
01:48:15,640 --> 01:48:19,640
the the Hong Kong element to this
where I really do believe this probably had

1713
01:48:19,680 --> 01:48:24,000
to be a tough year for him
just finding out like the response of the

1714
01:48:24,119 --> 01:48:27,319
MBA, and then yet knowing he
cost his boss in the league all that

1715
01:48:27,359 --> 01:48:30,079
money for effectively saying the right thing, which is just such a weird thing

1716
01:48:30,520 --> 01:48:35,039
to think about. At the same
time, it's like, from the moment

1717
01:48:35,199 --> 01:48:41,880
that Russell Westbrook trade was made,
something just felt askew. And here's a

1718
01:48:42,279 --> 01:48:45,880
trade that's not a Daryl Morey trade, No way, no none, and

1719
01:48:45,960 --> 01:48:47,720
so it's in. And even if
you think that he eventually would have made

1720
01:48:47,720 --> 01:48:50,319
the Clink Cappella trade, like that's
a different conversation. Where do you think

1721
01:48:50,319 --> 01:48:55,239
the Rockets would have eventually gotten a
microball if if Russell Westbrook wasn't there?

1722
01:48:55,319 --> 01:49:00,520
I honestly don't know. But like
that, just the E three and Westbrook

1723
01:49:00,600 --> 01:49:03,560
decision, like that didn't feel like
more at all. And from that moment,

1724
01:49:03,880 --> 01:49:09,920
unless it was just that pairing Westbrook
and hard was spectacular beyond expectation,

1725
01:49:10,279 --> 01:49:15,000
it sort of felt like the infrastructure
in Houston was the days they were numbered.

1726
01:49:15,000 --> 01:49:17,439
And I think even with the Mike
y Antoni negotiation, with which is

1727
01:49:17,479 --> 01:49:20,720
no to all season, that he
wasn't going to be back. Essentially,

1728
01:49:24,119 --> 01:49:27,640
I don't know what that says that
you lost two of the primary I don't

1729
01:49:27,640 --> 01:49:30,600
want to say architects of your team, but like the forefathers of the way

1730
01:49:30,600 --> 01:49:33,199
that you were wanting to play,
Like this team was built in their image

1731
01:49:33,239 --> 01:49:38,119
before this season, and now they're
both just gone, And so I wouldn't

1732
01:49:38,199 --> 01:49:41,840
rule anything out. I just think
that the rock I think till Fortea probably

1733
01:49:41,840 --> 01:49:44,279
thinks he's the smartest guy in the
room and that they're going to at least

1734
01:49:44,279 --> 01:49:47,439
try and get by a season before
they make that decision. Again. The

1735
01:49:47,720 --> 01:49:50,520
caveat would be does James Harden get
frustrated at all? And I don't know

1736
01:49:50,520 --> 01:49:55,760
if he can or will because he
had to be one of the proponents of

1737
01:49:55,800 --> 01:50:00,000
that Russell Westbrook trade. I don't
think that gets done. It doesn't get

1738
01:50:00,119 --> 01:50:01,800
done if it's just you know,
for Tea saying that Chris Paul's contract is

1739
01:50:01,880 --> 01:50:04,640
one of the worst he's ever seen, which is just look, you don't

1740
01:50:04,680 --> 01:50:10,479
have to light that Chris Paul contract, but that is objectively dumb. Yeah.

1741
01:50:10,680 --> 01:50:13,880
No, I think a couple of
things just giving up, you know,

1742
01:50:13,920 --> 01:50:16,680
if it was the cost of getting
Westbrook, fine, But I do

1743
01:50:16,800 --> 01:50:20,439
suspect that Sam Presty, much like
he did with the Paul George situation,

1744
01:50:21,199 --> 01:50:26,760
probably knew that Harden was like,
hey, you gotta go get Russ full

1745
01:50:26,840 --> 01:50:30,119
stop, and Presty's like, oh, interesting, I'm gonna extract a bunch

1746
01:50:30,119 --> 01:50:34,039
of extra picks out of this.
I think that anytime a GM is trading

1747
01:50:34,039 --> 01:50:40,680
picks that are like significant assets a
little ways down the line, like Houston

1748
01:50:40,720 --> 01:50:44,000
did, it's always just it's so
easy to think like, well, he

1749
01:50:44,039 --> 01:50:45,680
doesn't care, he's not going to
be there, right, Like I think,

1750
01:50:45,960 --> 01:50:47,960
you know, it's just a different
way of saying. What you said

1751
01:50:48,039 --> 01:50:51,319
is that the writing I think was
on the wall and now it's you know,

1752
01:50:51,520 --> 01:50:56,680
it's just nothing remotely surprising. So
I do think that when you put

1753
01:50:56,680 --> 01:51:00,800
it all together, you've got Westbrook, who's contract is already terrible and we'll

1754
01:51:00,840 --> 01:51:05,119
just only get worse and age,
and an owner who does not want to

1755
01:51:05,159 --> 01:51:12,039
pay the tax, and a highly
respective coaching executive that walk I have,

1756
01:51:12,159 --> 01:51:15,479
Like, I just think that the
elements for a very bleak future are in

1757
01:51:15,520 --> 01:51:17,640
place. And I think you're probably
right that you've got hardened. You know,

1758
01:51:17,720 --> 01:51:20,520
still, I think fair to say
in his prime or close enough to

1759
01:51:20,560 --> 01:51:27,479
it as to make no difference that
the nuclear explosion may not be this season,

1760
01:51:27,560 --> 01:51:29,920
but like it's coming. Harden is
not going to end his career in

1761
01:51:29,960 --> 01:51:31,359
Houston. I don't think, you
know, that's gonna come to an end

1762
01:51:31,399 --> 01:51:35,000
at some point. It'll probably be
as part of a broader, you know,

1763
01:51:35,439 --> 01:51:40,600
just total teardown, which there's no
other way. Scenarios like this don't

1764
01:51:40,680 --> 01:51:44,079
end any other way when you've got
these massive contracts and a bunch of unrest

1765
01:51:44,439 --> 01:51:46,840
in the front office, and you
know that type of thing. So unrest

1766
01:51:46,920 --> 01:51:49,000
is the wrong word, but you
get what I mean. Yeah, Look,

1767
01:51:49,079 --> 01:51:53,600
let's not forget about the Eric Gordon
extension either four years seventy five point

1768
01:51:53,720 --> 01:51:58,600
six million, only three years and
fifty four point seven million are guaranteed.

1769
01:51:58,640 --> 01:52:01,439
But that was did not look like
the best decision at the time either for

1770
01:52:01,479 --> 01:52:04,279
the team's long term future, and
it just gave off the vibes of oh

1771
01:52:04,359 --> 01:52:06,880
they did that. They threw away
all these first round picks. I don't

1772
01:52:06,920 --> 01:52:11,479
think Moray is planning on being there
by twenty twenty two. And lo and

1773
01:52:11,520 --> 01:52:16,840
behold, here we are. Grant. This was a fantastic nearly two hours

1774
01:52:16,880 --> 01:52:20,439
of basketball discussion. Thank you for
giving me so much of your time.

1775
01:52:20,479 --> 01:52:24,560
I kept you for roughly double the
amount of time that I thought I was

1776
01:52:24,640 --> 01:52:27,560
going to so the normal amount of
time. I guess we could call it.

1777
01:52:28,600 --> 01:52:30,640
Everyone, please remember to not only
rate, review and subscribe to us

1778
01:52:30,640 --> 01:52:33,600
on iTunes and wherever else you get
your podcast if you haven't already, but

1779
01:52:33,680 --> 01:52:40,079
also to follow Grant on Twitter at
GT Underscore Hugh's Grant. Thank you so

1780
01:52:40,159 --> 01:52:43,199
much again for doing this, and
as always, you can rest assured that

1781
01:52:43,239 --> 01:52:46,680
I will be pestering you again in
the not so distant future. Looking forward

1782
01:52:46,720 --> 01:52:58,279
to it. Sugar Ray, Leonard, Roberto Duran, Marvelous, Marvin Hagler,

1783
01:52:58,319 --> 01:53:02,880
and Thomas Hearns legends whose four way
rivalry define one of the greatest errors

1784
01:53:02,880 --> 01:53:09,319
in boxing history, relive their decade
of dominance in the new Showtime Sports documentary

1785
01:53:09,439 --> 01:53:13,520
The Kings, a four part series
premiering Sunday, June sixth, only on Showtime