Hey everyone. Hello, it's Martin Willison. Welcome to the show. We
have a great one for you this evening. We have Chris Cogswell coming up,
and before that we have Alejandro Rojas coming up with the UFO updates.
And speaking of updates, I'm going to give you a couple. So I've
been telling everyone that I'm going to be going to the mouf On Symposium this
weekend, which i am, but I also told them it was going there
was going to be a bonus show, bonus podcast out of that for the
supporters of the show, and there will be. However, the one thing
I'm not going to do because it's just plain too tricky after talking to people
there, is I'm not going to be able to do a live show from
there. So what I'm gonna do is I'm going to record. I'm going
to record probably interviews at the move On Symposium. I'll put together a YouTube,
so if you subscribe to the YouTube channel, you can do that.
If you don't, you will see the YouTube, video, video, audio
show of recording with different people. So that will be coming out probably on
Sunday, it might be as late as Monday. And same thing with the
bonus podcast for supporters, and I do want to thank everyone that supports a
show. Anyone can do that wherever you listen you all you have to do
is go over to podcast ufo dot com and for two dollars or more a
month, or you can do a one time yearly payment. All that informations
on the menu bar under support the show. So it does cost money and
to do the show and things like going to Cherry Hill, to the move
on Supposium all that, so I appreciate it very much. So I think
as far as I can tell that is that we're live on KGr A Radio
and also we're live on YouTube and that's every Wednesday, I say Wednesday,
that's Hill Day, every Tuesday at six to eight pm Eastern Standard time.
And so you can catch a slide for the full shows over there anytime.
And that's it for me for now. Alejando, how are you. I'm
doing good. That's good. And you had another very eventful weekend? Boy?
I did, I did. Yes. I was at Comica in San
Diego and so that was a lot of fun. I mean I was the
biggest part was I got to do a talk for National Geographic at their party
with Leland Melvin, an astronaut, and a couple other science people from NASA,
which was a lot of fun. And so I got to hang out
with lee Land a lot. And it was kind of funny because I had
been to space camp with National Geographic and so I had a space camp you
know, blue jumpsuit, and I brought it and wore it just to make
a joke out of it and stuff, and and so he's like, well,
then I'm gonna wear mine, and so he wore his blue jumpsuit.
Of course his is real and has been in space. It's an astronaut's jumpsuit.
But that was so much fun. So they actually get to keep them.
I think you and I had a conversation about that what astronauts can keep
and what they can't keep. Yeah, I know that they kept their boots
for walking on the Moon, which I think is pretty amazing. Yeah,
that's cool. And yeah, they wear the jumpsuits a lot. So Scott
Kelly, uh, I got to interview him not too long ago, and
for his talk he wore the jumpsuit, but after his talk he took it
off. So yeah, so often, I guess when they want to represent
NASA and stuff. They wore the jumpsuit, which is kind of cool.
That's amazing. So so what you you were filming? Now you told me
something about blue Book? What was what was the deal without? So that's
kind of the big news really, So it's blue Book. So I did
get to the other real quick mention because it was fun and I want to
kind of plug it. But I got to also meet Neil de grass Tyson,
which was a lot of fun. And this is kind of funny because
I posted a picture of myself and Karen with Neil de Grasse Tyson, and
I did some video interviews that'll come out on Den of Geek soon. But
um, everybody's posting, uh, he doesn't believe in you a post I'll
that you have post up. And of course I'm way into science and he's
a very important scientist and he had some very incredible things to say in my
interview. So it was an absolute pleasure to meet him. But guys,
you know, not everybody has to be into UFOs. And hopefully at some
point, if if we continued to have a relationship, I'll be able to
broach the topic and maybe share some information with him, But you know,
that wasn't what the interview was about UFOs, so that was kind of funny.
But what was about UFOs was Project blue Book. And this is kind
of making some news this weekend. It's kind of really making quite a few
stories because History Channel is doing a show called Project blue Book and there was
an activation there at Comic Con and I don't know why they call him activations.
It was kind of funny. I even met one of the guys who
is in charge of these different activations, and he didn't know why they called
him activation. She was even laughing at himself because he was like, I
don't know, but an activation is essentially an exhibit when a television show puts
together a cool exhibit to promote their show. And Project blue Book, I've
got this is really cool. This is a comic book that they gave us
at the exhibit, and I want to show you this because this is the
most important part about Project blue Book is look at this guy right here.
Who's that That's doctor Jay Allan Heineck. So this show is going to be
centered around Jay Allen Heineck and Project blue Book. So you could see this
is from a case nineteen seventy two um, which is you know, they're
going over actual cases and depicting these cases. So, um, the actor
is, um, let me get his name, Aidan Gillen. Does he
look like does he look a little bit like Heineck? Yeah? Here,
I've got actually a picture from the show, and yeah, look at him.
He does. Yea. So they made it google that the one people
that are listening you can yeah, what's the what's the show's exact name,
so Project blue Book. So they make him look like Heineck. He kind
of has a gruff voice. During the Comic Con weekend, they released a
trailer and you can go see that at the History Channel page. In fact,
if you go to Open mindstot TV, I posted they also released three
stories of three of the cases they're covering. So they released a story about
Men in Black, about the Flatwoods Monster, and about this Gorman UFO case
from the nineteen forty think forty eight, and I want to talk to you
about that one in particular in a second. But these are stories that are
going to be featured on the show, and you can see that in the
trailer. I mean, essentially they did Vikings, which was huge History Channel.
It's a scripted drama and it's great. If you haven't watched it,
I love it. And it's a very well done scripted drama, you know,
high production. They're out in Norway and all of this big. It
feels like a movie every episode, almost like Game of Thrones or something.
So they're doing the same thing with UFOs and Project Bluebook on this television show.
When you watch it, you could see there this is like a movie.
Every episode's like a movie, very high production value. Aidan Gillen from
Game of Throne, so he's huge. Robert Zemeckis is the producer. This
is a guy who directed Back to the Future, Contact and other things.
He's a big fan of Spielberg and of course Heinek was inspired the movie Close
Encounters for Spielberg. But the other thing that they're going to do, and
I think that's why they kind of focus on this Men in Black thing,
is that although the show's based on true events, like they repeat and they're
really covering some of the big cases, they are adding a bit of speculation
in there in that their description of the show says, you know, Heinek
kind of starts to suspect that he's just a front man for a bigger secret
project and they're not sharing everything with him, and of course people in this
field feel like that may be the truth. Not that we know that for
sure, nor do we necessarily know that he felt that way, but that's
going to be kind of some of the drama or some of the fiction added
to this story. But it looks really really good at this activation, So
this is cool. When you first walk in, they kind of brief you.
They have a staff person there briefs you on what blue Book was for
people who were not aware, and then they ask you if you had your
own UFO sighting. In my case, I said yes, and it turned
out practically everybody who walked in was saying yes, to my surprise, And
you know, we couldn't hear they just sat us each down with our own
person, but I can overhear people saying, yeah, I've had my own.
So you describe your sighting, and then what they say is at the
end you'll be able to pick up a drawing of your sighting. So that
was neat. You then go through to another room where they cover Flatwood's Monster
Lubbock lights, this Gorman incident incident, and you can kind of hear some
audio from the show. They show you a trailer. Then you go into
another room and they've got this cool like radar and stuff like that in there,
and you can send a message to space. Wow. And then on
the other side I did. Of course, I was friendly. I'm always
sure, yeah, but I warned them. I was so friendly to the
aliens that I told them stay away. These humans are crazy. Actually all
tweet what I had posted here after the show, but I told them that
humans are dangerous and they eat you know, living creatures, other Earth's creatures,
and isn't that gross? Is what I said, so because I figured
aliens agree with me, so I warned them to stay away. On the
other side of this room were some guys that were kind of in their nineteen
fifties outfits and they were like working, supposed to be like Bluebook staffers or
something, but they were the sketch artists who were sketching out our sightings on
the wall. There was some other cool stuff from other real UFO sightings as
well, and I did do a Facebook live of my tour through there,
so go to my Facebook and you can watch, you know, see what
they sing was like, because it was really cool. And sure enough,
they did give me a picture of my sighting and I did post that at
open Minds dot TV, the picture along with my description of the siting that
they depicted there. So it was a really cool exhibit or activation as they
call it in the comic con world. But yeah, there's lots of stories
coming out about this, and what's cool is because it's real. I mean,
it feels like X files, but this is now kind of like you
know, the godfather of UFO is a true you know, specialist jail and
Heinek out there kind of doing the investigation. So if you couldn't tell him
extremely excited, what the channel? Did you say? That's coming out on
History Channel? That's what I thought you said. Wow, Well, I
sure hope you didn't of those aliens any ideas that this is a good place
to eat, you know a little bit. Wow. So if they were
to come down here, and this is why I think it's important to be
vertian, If they're to come down here and they're not vegetarian, how are
they to choose what to eat? They'll see us, you know, do
you eat this this big round thing or do you eat you know, Um,
where are the creatures that you would want to eat. So if they
see us eating creatures, they're like, oh, this must be a thing.
Um, let's pick up some of these guys and try them out,
and thus the catamulation, you know. And I wonder if if on other
planets everything doesn't taste like chicken, what if it tastes like something else?
Just that's unique of Earth, that every living creature that you eat kind of
tastes like chickens as we could be. Wow, wow, never thought of
all this stuff. Way too much thround my brain around this Gorman sighting just
real quick. Yes, you can read about this at that dog Fight Street
channel, but yeah, it's a really early dog fight from nineteen forty eight.
And it's cool that the History channel's really pushing this case because it's a
cool one and they must have read that when they came across these files.
But essentially, it's this guy. He was a World War Two fighter nineteen
forty eight. He's with the Air National Guard. He's flying in his P
fifty one and he spots this light, an arable light. He thought it
was the tail light from another plane, but it passed near him and the
radar controller said, we didn't have anything on radar. We don't there wasn't
an aircraft that passed towards past you. So he turns around and he kind
of pursues this thing. He says, he gets in within he gets pretty
close to it, and he described it as a six to eight inch round
light that there was. It was just kind of a solid light. No
light seemed to be emanated past the diameter of this thing, so it was
the characteristics of the light were strange. And then he began to chase it
and fly around, and it kept bank around and doing all these things until
it took off just you know, was gone, as we read about so
many other times. But he said he pursued this thing for twenty seven minutes.
And there were other witnesses involved other aircraft, so there were a lot
of credible witnesses along with this case. So it's a fascinating sighting and that
was kind of like a foo fighter and what they were saying essentially, yeah,
it's a foo fighter experience. After World War Two with this Air National
Guard pilot and his his P fifty one, which was a plane that was
you know, used that was our one of our major I think it was
a marine. The Marines used it for in World War Two. If I'm
if I'm not mistaken, but someone could correct me. But anyways, it
was a plane that we did use in World War Two. But you can
at Open Minds not TV. I've got a link to it to the front
page. I also tweeted it and facebook the story. You can also see
it at the History Channel's Project Bluebook page, which people should explore because it's
really really neat stuff, great, awesome anything. I know we're just about
out of time here, but has any like really good sightings. Are you
aware of any good recent sightings people are talking about. I haven't really I've
been involved in a project, haven't really taken a look myself. There are
some people decidings that I've seen that are out there, have been figured out
essentially, and I've posted about a few of those. If you go to
the Open minds UFO news group on Facebook, you could see a lot of
those stories. But yeah, nothing too exciting in my opinion, it seems
like everything has kind of been explained so unfortunately, Yeah, no big exciting
recently that I'm aware of. Well all right, well, hey, thanks
so much, my pleasure say Hi to Chris. He's great. This should
be a great show. All right, excellent, all right, we'll see
you next week. All right, talk to you later. All right,
everyone, So our guest Chris Cogswell. He received his PhD and Chemical engineering
focusing on the study of nano materials for use as catalysts and absorbents. And
he got that degree at Northeastern University. And he has a bachelor's degree of
Chemical engineering and philosophy from the University of New Hampshire. He actually graduated the
same year as my son. How about that. And he has a podcast
and it's on you know, basically like fringe science, claims and science,
and it's called the Mad Scientists Podcast. And I can't I started listening one.
I'm going to check that podcast out for sure. Chris, Welcome to
the show. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. I think
I got most of that right, didn't I? Oh yeah, oh yeah,
I know you got it right. It's a good stuff. Yeah.
So, Chris, Uh, I listened to you a while back when you
want, when you were on Open Minds with all Jandro. I was pretty
pretty impressed. And so, but I don't remember listening to how you started
getting a fascination for I know it's not just UFOs, but UFOs are part
of it. So, along with your science interests and your philosophy interests,
what really led you down the path of looking into the UFO topic among others
things. So when I was a kid, I actually had what I would
describe to be a near UFO signing or not, maybe not a sighting.
Even I growing up had very very vivid dreams. I still have very vivid
dreams. Seems to be something that runs in my family. And so one
night, as you know any rambunctious seven year old kid, I stayed up
way too late, I way too much candy. I snuck into my dad's
my parents' bedroom to watch the X Files reruns, and just like tore into
you know, all those Christmas popcorn tins right with like the different Okay,
just tore into one of those right like I'm sure there wasn't any caramel corn
left in the morning. And I remember then falling asleep and then being woken
up later by a green, glowing something that I felt was looking at me
from the closet from from the hallway of my parents the hallway where my parents'
bedroom was and that memory just kind of stuck with me, you know,
I had no idea what happened. I seemed to just wake up the next
morning and everything was fine whatever. And I had a couple of other similar
kind of experiences where I would be kind of in and out asleep and I'd
have a scary nightmare experience kind of thing. And then I kind of just
pushed it to the back of my head, you know, I was like,
well, it's two whatever, it's a scary thing. I don't know
what happened. And finally I started getting older, you know, maybe around
thirteen fourteen fifteen, around that age, I asked my mom, I said,
you know, do you do you remember me saying anything about that?
And my mom's explanation, as far as I can remember, it was basically,
yeah, you used to get really bad fevers as a kid and your
brain was boiling, you know, so it's so basically you know, I
was, I was in bed, I must have had a bad fever or
something, and so form and now as an adult, um, I kind
of I know some of the s of if I could be tricked, other
people can be tricked, other people can be can be mistaken. Other people
can have scary experiences, and even if one hundred, you know, even
if nearly ninety nine percent of them are are just mistakes, what if there's
that one percent that is a real experience or a real case of someone seeing
something strange at night or being abducted or whatever. So really, it was
a mix of my own personal experiences and kind of my love of science that
made me want to ask these questions more because again, you know, the
history of science is filled with these things that we thought were completely impossible for
generations, you know, and something is always impossible until it isn't anymore,
right, So in my mind, this is kind of one of those interesting
questions where you know, thousands of people every month report sightings, hundreds report
things like direct contact, and I think, regardless again of whether or not
there's any ultimate regardless of what the ultimate source of those cases are, there
is something useful and interesting scientifically to investigate here. So that's kind of where
I come from with all these questions. And I would notice on your show
that you do other topics. I saw you did Mothman and the other things
like that, but that's called the Mad Scientist podcast. But you were just
before the show when we're checking in, and we'll show that logo. Go
ahead. So just before the show when we were checking in, you said
that Joe also did another podcast and what did you say that had something to
a science I mean our space or something. So we are starting a show
with We're starting a show basically with Dave Scott from Space Out Radio where the
second Wednesday of every month we are going to be talking about talking about these
cases from the lens of science and skepticism and kind of questioning really some of
those ideas. So we're calling them, we're calling them reality paranormal and so
they're gonna be going out on a Tuesday or Wednesday nights, sorry, the
second Wednesday of every month nights, So be sure to check there that and
I'll put the links up on my Twitter page and everything can give you those
as well. Excellent. Okay, yeah, um, So I figured we
could probably get this part out of the way, um by talking talking about
mouf On in your short stint. How long we were actually with mouf On.
I think I was at Mufon maybe two and a half scared mouchies.
Maybe I don't know, I was let's see that was eleven days. Yeah,
I was there longer than that. Um, I would say, no,
no, his his his time a month, right, No, so
we're talking. We're talking maybe then oh eight or eight, eight to ten
mooches of my time at move On. So I was there for about I
was there for between four and five months my full time there was And that
includes kind of me initially getting involved in the organization, wanted to become you
know, really wanted to become a member, wanting to help do some research,
kind of trying to get a look into their reports, and you know,
the book, so to speak, and to my eventual resignation. So,
um, but before we talk about your resignation, you had a really
good goal of getting things done there. How was was that progressing in the
right direction before? Do you know? I'd hit the fan? So it
was, it was progressing. It was the thing with the thing with Moufon
that I think a lot of people not actively involved in investigations don't realize is
that Moufon is really more of a it's not like a big, very organized
organization. It's very it's very focused on individual states. And so part of
what I was hoping to accomplish was trying to consolidate some of that energy.
All the you know, there are people in states doing wonderful work, doing
really good investigations, spending their own time, spending their own money, you
know, to go out there and do these do these investigative cases and things,
and then that information doesn't go anywhere. It just ends up on a
server in the basement of move On headquarters. Yeah. A lot of people
complaining about that, Yeah, and it's a it's a valid complaint. I
mean, you would think that with all of the cases that they get,
and with all the time and everything, that you'd be able to make something
really useful. And what I found was that it was not a lack of
information that stopped that from happening. It was more of a lack of clear
direction and a lack of energy and motivation. We managed to probably the biggest
thing that we accomplished while there was the creation of a I hope it's still
going and I hope it's still available people, and if anyone emails and then
it's not available anymore, then that's a shame. But what we were able
to do was that move On database. One of the biggest things keeping move
fund from giving that database information out to other researchers. Were concerns about personally
identifying information. So, you know, if you make a UFO report,
you don't want then your name and address and cell phone number and everything else
your contact info to go out to the you know, anybody who says I'm
oh, I want to investigate, I want to research. You don't want
anyone to get that your information. So one of the biggest concerns was ensuring
that that information went out to the right people and so and was kept safe
in cases where we didn't want it to go out. So we're gonna have
to hold it. We're gonna have to keep that thought. If you would
I write that thought down. We'll get back to it. So we're coming
up on a break right now. This is Martin Willis the podcast UFO on
kg r A Radio, and my guest is Christopher Cordswell. We'll be right
back after this commercial break. All right, everyone, that's it for the
free part of the show. If you want to listen to full shows and
archives and bonus shows such as we're doing and move on this coming weekend,
all you have to do is support us for two dollars or more a month.
There's also an option to pay a one time per year fee, so
check that out on podcast ufo dot com. I want to thank a few
people that helped out with the show, Alejandra Ross, our guest of course,
Chris Cogswell Evan for doing the engineering work in the background, and Peggy
for managing the Facebook page, and Bill over at kg or A Radio.
Thanks everyone, and we'll be back with actually in Mac maloney's studio at a
radio station next week live and so that should be a lot of fun.
That's down in exciting New Hampshire. We're going to be videoing that too for
anyone that wants to watch you on YouTube. Thanks a lot and remember to
keep your eyes to the sky.