It's the Lapsed Fan Wrestling Podcast with Jack and carn S e O and JP
Sorrow. He's a lapsed fan. In all my years and wrestling, I
never seen anything and it's the laps fan name by the one in the ring.
Forget about Slado. He the real king of swing. When the bell
goes in and the kick like me throwing in the corner. But it's lash
like stick. Even Jerry King can take off the crowd nodded in his head
like it. Steve low Brown, would you get low down? Go even
high up? Flipp you on your head? But you know cool driver,
you speak more and Dragon spits fire give you more shock than when he treats
higher drop a more truth than the con of sniper unless you with a coconut.
Roddy Piper, Jack and JP. He like j Y d drop the
cupcakes and gold The brain Bob means the best podcast Frost start the close cloud
if you all we've been as a classic and pos We're back on our bullshit
here at the Lapsed Fan Wrestling Podcast. Yes, yes, we are lapsed
Funk in the rear view A ton of stuff popping off Philly, April seventh,
The announcement of Dark Side of the Ring unheard in concert with your co
chairman. It's getting real here in twenty twenty four. It's getting real.
It's getting dirty. And if we're looking at a four at the end of
a year, we've got to think of a certain anniversary. And we've been
wanting to bring this to you all year long. Last we're there forty years
after Hull Cogan won his first WWF championship January twenty third, nineteen eighty four,
Madison Square, Garden. Boss, you put it on the table.
You had the idea, tell me why we're here. Well, you know,
I was, you know, we we were thrown around ideas. You
know, we always like to come to come back from a journey with something
big, something meaningful, something they know vany Yep, something that's gonna you
know, something that's that that that's that's been probably you know, longed for.
But at the same time, you know it's just not gonna fit just
right. It's gonna hurt a little harder than normal, right, And that's
and that's what this was. I was like, you know, we were
we were thrown on ideas and and I think I might have said I don't
know. I think you wanted to do You're talking about doing the Royal Rumble,
the first Royal Rumble or the first pay per view Royal Rumble, because
we've never done we haven't done that yet, yep. And then I feel
like I'm thinking, by the way, like a total mark that we'd be
done with lapsed funk in January. Yeah, right, exactly exactly, And
I think I kind of said, well, you know, it is forty
years of rest of Hulkomania. Oh my god, is that to be to
be more accurate, forty years of Hulke Camenia in the w w F No,
no, all around before we're gonna hear him say a lot of Hulkamania
is under a w A contract or did he have? No? No,
no, no, no no. That's hulk Mania different, very different to
hear a rod Tron Guard or a Wally Caraboua put it, for example.
So we're back, we're strong, and we're excited to be back with you.
It's it's a it's a massively historic show. And as much as I've
seen the horn Iron Cheek match, I've never seen the whole card. Yeah,
how did it make you feel? I mean, it's it's it's weird.
There's there's some there's stuff that I am like, oh this is great,
like it just it works, it flows, it's it's fun to be
in this part. And then and then there are moments like that fucking Invaders
versus Fuji and Chung Wi match where it's like they just it's exhausting, it's
it's weird. How there's a very there's there's a almost a there's no it's
like it's either gona it's either really fun, it's good and it moves,
or it's a slug. Yeah, there's no in between, such as the
rhythms of Madison Square Garden cards before Wholemanium. Yeah, right, of course
Aftercomy, Right, that was what the the New York wrestling fans and these
Coast wrestling fans Philly, Baltimore were accustomed to. Oh god, that that
that fucking match was just laborious. Well they were working, so yeah,
that's true, and it was labor involved. I suppose, I guess.
I guess back then it involved labor from us as well. It did feature
Bruce of Brodie's Murderer, So there's that that's it. Did it? Did?
I was a little excited about that. I did notice that myself.
So a lot to chew on here and a lot to talk about. It's
the it's the dive you need in the transition to the WWS cul comania.
It's all those little in betweens that get left out of the grand telling of
obviously a story that's told all the time. Yes, yes, it's it's
you know I it's not a clean cut tail. No, I don't think.
I don't think we could expect it to be with the Holster involved.
Well, we'll get to you, Terry. This one's going to be a
real there's going to be a lot of trigger warnings on this episode for laptop,
just say that upfront. So yeah, really looking forward to sitting down
and charting in a sort of careful fashion. What all led to Hulk Hogan
returning to the WWF in really the last week of nineteen eighty three, technically
shooting television for what would air on the very first day of January nineteen eighty
four. No shit, yep, Hulk back in the ring against a Jabbronian
named Bill Dixon at the Chase Hotel in Saint Louis. Did did did that?
Happen before he saved Backland. Yes, wow, it's about two weeks
later when they taped Allentown, and shortly after, you know, hul Comedia
began, they shifted from Allentown to Poughkeepsie, New York and Branford, Ontario,
so they would abandon the agricultural hall that was that you know signature WWF
a syndicated television locale for all those years. So it's one of those rare
times where Hulk Cogan is in full swing in front of the Allentown crowd and
yeah, all that all that stuff to dig into and to save her and
to set down for history's sake here as we're also going to talk about the
incredibly short lived WWF title reign of the Iron Chic, who of course serves
as the transitional champion between Bob Backland and Hull Cogan. We've talked about Chic
beating Bob Eckland. I believe it was December twenty seventh, nineteen eighty three
in the Garden on the Colisseum collection or one of the early tapes we covered.
I think it was the History of the Belt one or maybe it was.
No, it was, it wasn't it was you know, it was
one of those weird the greatest matches things. It was the greatest match.
Yeah. It was like a renegade. It was like a shorter Colisseum video.
Yeah. Yeah, it was w's greatest matches. And they they showed
that match, and we talked a lot about, you know, kind of
the emotional backdrop for Bob Backland, who had been top in the WWF,
on top, I should say since nineteen seventy eight, to throwning Superstar Billy
Graham. Is Vince Mcmahonsingior's next selection to be sort of like that permanent fixture
of babyface champion in the mold of Pedro Morales and of course Brunos Sam Martino
there in the garden. How did we get you know, I know we've
talked about a million times, but I just you know, I can never
understand how Bob Backland was a was a worthy successor to guys like because you
know you've got you spend the sixties and and and the seventies with guys like
Bruno San Martino or a Pedro Morales or Superstar Graham who are all larger than
life types. Well, I would say, uh, Pedro wasn't really larger
than Line. Yeah, Pedro, but but you know what, Pedro's Pedro's
you know, he's got a lot more charisma than fucking yeah than mister Wonderbread.
Yeah, it's fair. I think, you know, they thought the
moment called for an all American wrestler who would go in there and wrestle people,
to beat them and maintain superiority. They weren't looking to reinvent Brunos Amartino,
there was no reason to do that. They they wanted somebody who could
be an incredibly stark contrast to Billy Graham. Don't forget he took it off
the superstar. Yeah. Yeah, And we've talked at length over the years
on TLF about how, you know, Superstar Billy Graham did all the things
you would do to justify having a longer WWWF title reign than he did.
But Vin Senior drew the line in the sand and said, this is the
night where the belt goes back to our next babyface champion. That was the
like when you look at when you during this era, when you look at
the names of people and you look at you know, the quality of wrestler
and and what you know, it's like he just doesn't fit the mold.
Oh no, he does not at all. No. I mean you know,
there isn't a mold. As much as you would think. In Vin
Senior's mind, there was the charism of a Bruno Suo Martino that was its
own entity. I mean, Bruno, you know, wasn't somebody that was
created by Vin Senior. He certainly didn't put a want ad out for someone
to fill the role and choose over Bruno. And that's all you're really talking
about is Bruno. I mean, you can talk about Pedro, but Pedro
is sort of like a one eight of Bruno. Just insert Puerto Rican fan
base for Italian fan base and you have pretty much the same mold, right.
But you know, very very bland on interviews, Bruno Bruno wasn't a
great interview. We heard Terry Funk and the Lapsed Funk talk about how Bruno
is one of those guys that used bashfulness and shyness like Jack Briscoe did as
a very endearing babyfaced trait in the seventies. Yeah, and he said,
you know, don't sleep on how important it is to get over as a
babyface, to make it seem like you'd rather not be talking about yourself it
to certainly not be a boisterous, colorful guy in the microphone. You know.
I just think if we really steep ourselves in what wrestling fans wanted out
of the Babyface World Champion in the seventies, we would probably say of Bob
Backland. But it's the whole Cogan era that's so and sort of putting Hogan
in the same category as Bruno, which probably isn't that appropriate when you think
about the actual presentation. I mean, that would get that warped idea.
I mean, I guess maybe, but I mean, you know, I
just think of the intensity of the matches we've seen with Bruno and he's just
yeah, you know, he's just all go in his matches. And Bob
Backland, you know, I've seen a few of his matches from back then
and again he's a fine technical wrestler. Oh yeah, But like I just
I never it's such a fucking wild ass thing anyone. I mean, and
I know obviously he drew money. He would have been championing for six years
to draw money, but it's just like I don't get it. I just
don't get it. Yeah, it seems like the fans back then were much
more willing to sort of buy their ticket to support the champion the promotion gave
to them then sort of you know, fold their arms and wait for a
champion that excited them. Yeah. Yeah, I don't really think the Garden
moved that much in terms of attendance in that day. It was much more
habitual going to the Garden for these monthly Monday night cards. And let's accept
right now that Hulkoke and Beats are and chic on a Monday night in New
York City. It's a Monday unbelievable. And that's how far back Monday tradition
goes. It was a raw. It was raw, it was raw,
it was right. It's addition of raw on the Garden. And we have
a complete version of the show because you know what Aaron Madison Square Garden Cable
Network for those Oh I mean, you fucking imagine being able to watch every
live Garden show, oh Park down on a given Monday of everyone. I
mean, it's like watching raw. It's what it is, except it's presented
as sporting as it can be. I mean, the opening montage. You
have WWF clips back then mostly interspersed with clips of the Knicks and the Rangers.
The Rangers, yea, tennis all things. The Madison Square Garden Cable
Network, which is you know, sort of the Regional Sports Network RSN as
they would call it for New York City back in the day and to this
day as a matter of fact, would present and wrestling, which is something
that you know, they didn't put the rodeo in. That would have been
nice. Yeah, well, like they got a three ring circus though,
didn't they one ring circus, m Now three ring circus would be we WCW
ninety five. But I mean, these matches are going on the gardens packed
MSGS, the network in the in the building, and they're like, well,
let's just hire and as they did, let's just hire a company to
set up cameras, to set up all the equipment you need. It's not
Vince's equipment yet. In fact, at the end as well, get on
the deep dive portion of this, they actually name the company that's contracted out
to produce these garden things as television spectaculars. So I'm sure Vince had a
you know, I'm sure that McMahon has had a hand and how it was
produced and the elements, the production elements behind it. But it's not like
WWF employees, you know, sitting in the truck like it would become.
He's got a lot of learning to do under the learning tree of MSG.
But also Dick Ebersol. When Saturday Nights Made event launches in nineteen eighty five,
this is pre of course, WrestleMania one. This is pre they'd just
taken over the USA network in the summer of nineteen eighty three. We talked
a lot at the very very end of the summer more last week of August,
first week of September time period. We talked at length about that during
our Black Saturday coverage a couple of years ago. Because that's all moving pieces
heading into July eighty four, when he also takes over TBS for a short
period of time, it's all starting to happen. And when you talk about
Hogan in particular, you just have to really savor this opportunity. And I
think you know, well, one thing that we're probably well served to do
is just start with Hulk Cogan's versions of version of events, as told in
his One of a Kind book, So you mean the truth the truth?
Do do you have it handy by any chance, or I do I do
have it handy. You could furnish said copy and just orient us, you
know, starting starting with chapter twenty Wedlock. This is him And I'm sure
we've read these passages before, probably in the Life and Death of the a
WA series, but I mean, nowhere is it more appropriate. Of course,
consider this kind of like the received wisdom that we're then going to dive
into proving or disproving as we go more surgically through what happened to Hult Cogan
In nineteen eighty three and four O there do number twenty, Chapter twenty entitled
Wedlock. I believe in Wedlock, Yes, indeed Proba. On December eighteenth,
nineteen eighty three, a short time after Vince McMahon came to Minnesota to
move me back to New York, I married my fiance Linda in Los Angeles.
I'd come back from yet another trip to Japan with a regular entourage,
including Japanese wrestling legend Antonio Nok and a film crew from New Japan Pro Wrestling
that was going to record the whole thing. All my friends from the wrestling
business were there. Audrey the Giant Vince McMahon, who their friends said his
fucking wedding, like, oh, yeah, how are they but they're not.
He's friends with Vince Yeah, I mean he worked for his father and
Vinnie Junior was around. That seems weird. You know, all my all
my friends from the wrestling business were there, Andre the Giant, Vince McMahon,
Adrinan Donis, ed Leslie who would later wrestle as Bruce Beefcake. Maybe
A. I mean as if either name, you know, if you're A,
if you're Granton. Obviously this is this is aiming towards wrestling fans.
But if if a, if, a pedestrian, a civilian rather fucking picked
this up and decided to read it, you know what, do you think
the chances are they're going to even know ed Leslie or Brutus Beefcake zero?
Yeah, right, Yeah, that doesn't clarify it for many at all,
maybe one hundred and fifty wrestlers altogether, except everybody except Verne Gagney, who
I was getting ready to screw over. The wrestlers sat on one side of
the aisle and Linda's family sat on the other, wondering what the hell she
was getting herself into I don't remember how much about I don't remember much of
a ceremony. I was so nervous. It was like a lot of body
experience. I barely knew what was going on, but I remember the party
afterward. It was a damn circus. All the wrestlers raids hell and drank
like vikings. We just went crazy. At one point, Linda cut the
cake and smashed a piece in my face. I overreacted and double smashed it
in hearths. Obviously, I never paid close attention at weddings. I don't
even know the bride and groom were supposed to sneak away before any of their
guests, so instead I sat off a bar drinking with Andre until they closed
the place. Finally, Linda, who still had cake on her face,
why what she thinks you? Is it bad luck to wash it off?
I mean, I mean what she keep it off for like an hour or
two hours, She's like a cake on her face, and asked me if
I was ever gonna if I was ever gonna leave. So I said good
night to Andrea and staggered off with Linda. I woke up the next morning
about seven o'clock with my tuxedos still on and a New York steak in my
hand. Excuse me? Does he mean a steak in the New York territory?
He does not. I guess I was eating it when I fell went
to sleep with the benefit of a knife and Ford, Brother, where did
we're talking? Where did this come from? Dude? Yeah, makes up
with a steak in his hand. He's not writing it off to a wild
night. He's he's thinking long and hard about what that could mean. Who's
who's trying to tep me into submission? Brother? It's it's it's basically like
finding the what is it the head in the Godfather's bed? Yeah, right
right? The horse has said Linda was sleeping on the bed and I was
lying on the couch, and judged by the fact that I was still fully
dressed, I guess that I hadn't consummated the marriage. But tell you the
truth, I was too hungover to remember to to really remember. Is before
he met h doctor Zahrian, who took care of his u his family management
problems. You know what I mean? Yeah, Eurethra a doctor the fucking
whatever they call those guys. You're in all No, what's the word.
Oh my god, what's the word for doctors to specialize in and dix?
Thank you? Yeah you were saying it and then you oh you're I think
I did it? Did in my head. You know, Linda's mother and
father had showed a ton of money for the wedding, including a generous amount
for booze. What what's that? I guess that that same provision was made
for WCW fans in ninety five fees of v Hogan. Yes, they do.
They bring in like heel wrestlers as well into this thing, so like,
you know, yeah, keep the booze flowing faces faces and heels.
Oh shit, But I was leaving the hotel. They told me the wrestlers
are drunk so much, we're gone above and beyond our quota. Well,
how much above and beyond? I asked the hotel people. Twelve thousand dollars
worth? They told me, Thank god, I had some cash money on
me from Japan. Thank god I had twelve thousand dollars on me from Japan.
I got I got twelve grand right here in my pocket. It didn't
Yeah though, is that okay? It's in yen though? Is that okay?
Well? I was gonna say yes, mister Bolea, but the way
you said that, it sounds like you're lying for some reason. What exactly
who I'm just I'm I'm just trying to be, you know, on the
level with you, brother. Clearly I paid the tab, but man,
the party was a wild one. So Lynda and I left the hotel,
but we didn't go on a honeymoon. We flew back to Minnesota and I
went back to work. Next to keep going to garden party. Yes,
yeah, keep going till he wins the strap. Okay, So I came
back Chapter twenty one Garden Party. So I came back to New York as
a good guy, this time secure in the knowledge that I was going to
wrestle for the championship in Nassa Square Garden as soon as I had a couple
of Allentown TV mat under my belt. At that time, the champion,
Bob Backland, had just lost his title to a guy named the Iron Chic,
so it looked like he would be me and the Iron Chek wrestling in
the garden. Or so had been led to believe the problem was Bob Backland,
who had held the heavyweight title for a long time. He and I
had been friends when I first my first run in New York. Dude,
brother, I mean, dude, you know we're all you know what I
would have done with for him? Clearly, he clearly has his story straight.
As it regards Bob Backland, he's ready to go. I would have
gladly pumped blood into his body. Brother. You know, that's how close
Bob Backland and I were. Backland, we had gone to Japan together and
trained together, and I thought I had earned his respect. But when I
came back to New York, oh, kind of weird vines. Dude,
it's always away with this guy. It was a whole different deal with him.
You know, this is to have done the wrong thing first so he
can justify not wanting to see you later. Exactly. This man Senior wanted
Backland to tag team with me, but Backland balked and said he didn't want
to do it, so he didn't even want to stand next to me on
a camera. I always said, Bro, if you just lose to me,
we could have waned millions of dollars. I'm just like, you know,
dude, we just kind of an even keel. Brother. I'm just
kind of like, you know, we talked Turkey. Well, first of
all, you know will be an even keel in a couple of weeks,
because that's where we're moving. The Saint Louis Tapings. Second of always said
the same thing about Piper and Warrior. You know you should have just lost
to me. I just I just want you business, brother, And he
also, uh is concerned. The guy's name is back Lind. You don't
turn your back on Backland, all right, brother. To then, Vince
wanted to shoot an angle where Bachlan was going to wrestle the Iron Chic and
Ben hurt, so he was going to ask his friend O Hogan to wrestle
in his place. Backlan didn't want to do that either. It made me
make it really rough because I was supposed to be getting this big push and
it was important that Backland passed the torch to me. Dude, It's right,
it was important. I mean, brother, I came in for torch.
Yeah, fuck the observer. Right, it's crazy, but I mean,
you know, it's like, what WHOA like? I'm just suddenly you
know, I thought we were you know, I just want to dial this
thing in due I thought would tell you the people that you're going to basically
put out of work or at least see their salary cut by seventy percent because
they're petitioning the cars. They're not going to be your friends. I just,
you know, I'm just I'm just trying to get like the total picture
here, brother, I'm talking about long term. I'm talking about you know,
rematches, the whole thing. And and I was told one thing and
now it's like I'm being shown another and I don't I'm kind of feeling a
little nervous right now, let's be clear. I mean, but he didn't
want any part of that because he wanted to wrestle the Iron Chic himself and
get his title back. Finally, it all came to a head on TV
in Allentown, Pennsylvania, a few days before we were supposed to go to
Madison Square Garden. Vis Man Senior, huh go ahead? This a Man
Senior called a meeting with me and Bob Becklan and Vince Junior to clear the
air. By that time, Backland was a nervous wreck, a nervous wreck,
dude. I was calm as a cucumber, all right, all right,
cool as a cool as a kumbaya. Yeah, so calm that you
said it's so cool that you said calm as a cucumber. Yeah, I
got it and cool as a that one was fine. Let's not for again.
Hogan had wrestled Backland when Backland was champion in nineteen eighties, several times
on the the w w w F circuit, so there is reason for Holk
to think that he'd had, you know, positive dealings in the past.
But Bob back when it's not like he's a complete stranger, but still right,
you know, he had red hair and real white skin, and he
was so upset that he was all broken out in hives. I was like,
dude, brother, whoa I thought I was the one that's supposed to
break out. Brother. I'm I'm you know, I'm I'm I'm not digging
these hives. Brother, Like, I don't know, like this this hive
situation right now, it's really not working for me. Brother, I don't
I can't be close toone with hives because they, you know, they kind
of they affect hull comania. Brother, Right, I don't want to hive
a mania affecting a hull comania. You get it, brother? Yeah,
wait for the killer bees to come in the first thing he said, was
I don't. I don't want anyone who's not an athlete to have the championship
belt. I haven't been this guy's friend and training partner, and all of
a sudden I wasn't fit to wear his belt. I'll tell you, brother,
it shocked me to hear Backland say that. Okay, so maybe I
didn't have an amateur wrestling background, you know, maybe I hadn't won any
AAU championships or coming home with a gold medal from the Olympics. Yeah,
neither, Bob, Backlin, Bob, I think, Yeah, but I
wasn't exactly a guy off the street either, you know. No more hide
the ball, brother, Oh no, definitely not. That that air is
over. Yeah. Besides, there have been a lot of champions who weren't
amateur athletes. You know, Superstar Billy Graham wasn't an amateur athlete. Neither
was Brunos Sam Martino. The whole meeting, Backland was itching and scratching like
a dog with a bad case of fleas. I've never seen him so upset,
and I've never been more nervous of my entire life being around a guy
like this, so fucking creepy. Oh yeah, Can you imagine like,
oh my god, this before a hunk has actually pulled it off, you
know, right, you think Ogan was nervous when he actually was on top.
Can you imagine those like touch and go, Oh, yeah, he's
not sure he's going to secure the bag yet. Is he going to be
on top? Right? Well? Brother, I'm not laying down. Uh
uh, I gotta be on I gotta be on top. Brother. I'm
why'd you guys bring me in a meeting? Dude? That's a good question.
Why am I here? Brother? Because right now I don't understand.
I feel like something's going on right now, dude. Yeah, I mean
I know there's I know that I'm not privy to every everything. I know.
I don't know the old man as well as Bob does. And I
know that you know he fired me for doing Rocky and stuff. Dude,
But uh, you know, I just have n Vinnie. I just I
gotta I gotta ask your brother. I mean, does your dad have it
out for me? Dude? Like, is there a chance that he's gonna
pull one last power play? I just want to say, dude, I've
looked around the office, brother, I didn't see anybody. Well, I
had to look. I had to scope out the office, brother, because
I don't know about had to, but continue, I have to, dude,
because you never know who. You know, people could be hiding around
like bookshelves or whatever. You're trying to get one up on hul Cogan.
That's a good point. Yeah, you're right, and I'm yo. But
brother, this whole thing's going down, Dude. I keep looking around.
I don't see anybody, but I feel like somebody's behind me. Brother,
Right, what else does he have to say? So, you know,
vincingr looked at me over the tops of glasses. Yeah, I did,
And and Terry. Maybe Bob's got a point. Maybe we should wait and
see how everything works out. And oh my god, think about putting the
belt on us six months from now. Vince Senior getting cold feet? Yeah,
he's been champions since nineteen seventy eight. Think about that, No doubt,
easily you could convince him to just extend it a little longer. Just
what's what's you know, what's what's six months in the grand scheme of things
and just for contact And this wasn't really understood at the time. It took
years for to you know, come out in terms of like nailed down specific
dates. Vince Junior had closed on the deal to acquire the company in eighty
two. However, m hmm, there was this arm's length deal where Vince
didn't meet certain financial conditions, the control of the company would revert back to
Vince Senior and Gorilla Phil Zacho and his whole cabal there. So it wasn't
quite like Vince Junior was totally on his own. And frankly, if Vince
Senior hadn't passed away in May of nineteen eighty four, just you know,
four months after Hogan wins the Belt and some Square Garden, it probably would
have been a delicate situation, oh for help Commania to run that wild,
because certainly you'd have Bobby Backland hitting up Vince Senior, lobbying, pushing in
the other direction. You know, that wasn't what I had signed on for.
This was this wasn't what was I was promised when I show cands with
Vince Junior and agree to come back. So I'll say, you know,
guys, I burned one hell of a bridge back in Minnesota, and I'm
gonna run. I'm gonna run back there quick as I can, as I
can and try to rebuild it. Thank you for everything. I started to
walk out, but Vince Junior stopping. Look, I'm sure this all happened.
By the way, my dad just you know, he's a little worried
and I have to talk to him. But we'll get this thing back on
track. He definitely said that. That doesn't helped putting words in Vince's mouth
at all, not at all, dude, We're gonna get this thing back
on t brother condoled in. Dude, we gotta you know, I don't
know what you gotta do, brother, if you got to talk turkey with
your dad. Brother, but we get to get this thing back trah.
Say what you will about how we've covered this many different ways before. We
have never covered this era after TNH, not at all. And that's key.
Oh god. He talked to his father and told him that he wanted
me to have the title shot in the belt, not backland, and like
that, Vince Senor gave in. Oh, Vinny, and this guy he
doesn't really you know, what do you what do you see in this guy?
Was he he's a big buffoon. He's offered me a pocket translator five
hundred dollars. Oh all right, Dad. I mean, you know,
he's he's very big, and he's got you know, I think he's got
this larger than life presence that could really that could really make us make us
a lot of money. And Dad, quite frankly, you don't have much
of very very much longer to live. Quite frankly, you don't have much
longer to live. Do you want to explore that any further? You want
to leave that there? Vinnie, how do you know that? How do
I know that? That's a very it's a very healthy question to ask.
I'll tell you right now, Dad, it's definitely not because I've been slowly
poisoning your food. Oh thank God, Oh my god, You're gonna be
a heart attack many Jesus Christ. Well, that is I was looking into
the eyes of a true derelic deviant for a second there. I listen,
I do things the honest way. I do things the right way. I
do things the way the way business should be handled in the realms of men.
Can't argue with that in some perverse ways. So Vince stepped in up
to the plate and stuck by the agreement we had back made back in Minnesota.
And the next thing I knew hul Coogan was gotting ready to wrestle the
Iron Cheek Madison Square Garden. It was shortly after that, maybe the very
next Allentown TV, that I saw something that made my heart stop. Someone
did a roll up in the middle of the ring. Brother, that's how,
and nobody consulted with me. Dude, that's how his run when Vince
got rid of him, then Senior ended. He got rolled up by Tony
Atlas in the Spectrum clip. That clip has been sent to us probably two
hundred times over the years. Oh, best exact roll up we always think
of. And uh, if you want to go to the restroom there,
you had to walk up these steps and when you've got near the top step,
you had to reach out to open a door. Oh wanted the door
open. You could see if someone was standing in the restroom already. We
never knocked on the door. We just we just walk in and out.
Anyway, I walked up the steps and opened the door and there was this
guy standing there with his back to me and between his legs such bullshit.
I cannot believe he put this in the book. And between his legs,
dude, was this huge stream of red piss that looked like pure blood.
All of a sudden, I realized it was Vince Senior. Rought away,
I closed the door. It took me a second or two to get over
the shock. Then I got Pat Patterson, who's Vince Junior's closest friend,
and I told him what I've seen in the restroom. You know, Pat
Patterson went and told Vince Junior. I don't know what he felt inside.
It had to tear him up that his dad was dying. So Hogan broke
the news to him. He just, I mean, he also jumped to
a massive conclusion. I don't know about me, but when that peeing blood
is bad. But right, your dad's dying, dude, I just saw
some urine with blood, and I saw bloody urine. Brother, Okay,
I say let's leave that one there. I don't know about you, boss,
but when I accidentally barging on someone in the bathroom, I always look
at their piss first instead of their face. Oh absolutely, I do,
absolutely, Well, you see sawthing from behind them? Manyeah, Ok,
he's not the urinal or I guess, I mean, I guess I guess
Vin was. I still don't understand this. I don't I don't understand,
he says. So he says, he walks up, he opens the door,
and there's a guy standing there with his back to me, and there's
this huge stream of piss red pitch. So what is he like fucking peeing
on the floor, Well, that's exactly. Is he like squatted over the
toilet, standing on the toilet seat, or is he just like I mean,
he's just standing in front of the doorway and just like, you know,
is it like a pool of bloody piss? Is that what it is?
Bloody urine blurring? I mean, I would say we should spend a
lot of time getting to the bottom of this, but something tells me it
wouldn't be worth it. Something tells me that there's really no bottom to it
at all, and it's a bottomless pit of lies. I mean, that's
like the hull cookin thing is. For some reason, he's gotta be at
the the center of like key moments in history, you know, totally,
totally, it's so weird, totally. Why do you want to insert yourself
into when and how Vince Junior found out his father was sick? I mean,
what is the point of that? Like, why do you know what
does that matter. You know, why does he have to be there?
Baul was there, dude, Like what what what does it? Good?
Does it do you? If you were there? Usually I can kind of
tell with him, like, Okay, this is him trying to like guard
against somebody finding fault with what he did, or maybe uh thinking that somebody
else one upped him or you know, did a better crowd than him,
you know, like his whole Buddhican thing that he says, Yeah, right,
but I don't know, man, it's this one is like it's a
whopper in half bis are. That is really bizarre. So but because of
who he was, he gets his game face on him and stayed strong for
all of us. Maybe he's maybe he's trying to say, is that he
that that Vince was okay, that his dad died. Maybe that's what he's
trying to say here, That's one way to read it. Meanwhile, the
fans were getting pumped for me to wrestle the Iron Chic. They had seen
the same wrestlers over and over again for a long time, but I was
something different. Really, they didn't know what to make of me. He
were there like two years before this. I'd wrestled there before, But I
had really made a name for myself in the AWA. I was a heel
back then. Now I was a good guy. Was I going to stay
for the long haul or go back to Minnesota? Nobody knew, they knew
the Iron chicic though. This guy wasn't just a performer put on a robe
and a turban and called himself a chic. He actually was a chic.
I didn't say that. Oh, okay, I was gonna say he actually
wasn't. He was an accomplished amateur wrestler who had represented Iran in international competition,
and before that he was supposed to have been a bodyguard for the Shaw
of Iran. He actually was that. That's one of the lesser disputed parts
of his story. There was a story that Hey had holes in his head
from some time a punishment they inflicted on him. They had hit him with
an ice pick or something that was a kind of torture they supposedly used on
the Shah's bodyguards when they weren't doing their job. Their jobs properly brother the
same thing as doing the job for Hulk Hogan. You don't lay down and
do your job and do the job. I'm gonna stab you in the head
with an ice pick. I wonder he loved the Patriots back in the day.
Do your job, do your job. So it was so it was
an experience to be in the ring with this guy, and with the Iranian
hostage crisis freshened people's minds. His name and his background really stirred up the
emotions of the fans. Of course, we didn't have pay per view in
those days, but we had was closed circuit TV. The garden was always
overflowing, so the company would open up the Felt Forum, which was also
in the garden, and we're on a cable in there with a big screen
about the Red hostage crisis thing just quickly. Yeah. Everyone always brings that
up a visa being the Iron Cheek, which is fair because he did definitely,
you know, sing the Praises of I had Tola Hominy and had a
illustration draw according to any drawn by Jerry Lawler of all people in Iron Cheek's
flag. I don't know how really, yeah, how those two cross paths
to you know, consummate that deal. But anyway, it was in seventy
nine and it kind of lasted a couple of years. It ended in an
early early early nineteen eighty one. He actually she came from Minneapolis to New
York the first time as the Great Houssein Arab to capitalize in what Hogan and
everybody always talks about the the Irangian sentiment. But it was like it was
kind of over by, right. I mean, look the guy going in
the ring and saying I spent in America run number one, Yeah, I
mean that's going to rile the passions. But it's like he came in,
tried to take advantage of the Iran heat and it didn't even work. He
went back to I think he went back to Minneapolis. He definitely didn't stay
in New York for very long in that first run, right, it wasn't
it wasn't the Iron Cheek then either. He had a different name. But
I don't know. I've always kind of wondered why they act like the hostage
crisis was going on when Hogan won the belt, you know, I mean
it's the same thing, like it's it's no different than uh uh uh Sergeant
Slaughter supporting Saddam Hussein at Wrestlmingia seven and SummerSlam months after the fucking Iraq War
was over right, the Gulf, the Desert Storm, the cover, Yeah,
desert storm. You know it's that the same fucking thing. Like they
well, what else we're we gonna do? They moved to take advantage.
By the time they get their ducks in a row. Right, the situation
has changed, the geopolitical situation. I can't really do anything else with this
guy. This guy is going to be what he is. I mean,
do you expect me to have that much of an imagination? I just fucking
made this guy. The way he was to get there was exhausting. I
don't want to go back and start from scratch. Fuck that and fuck you
get what I want because deep down you know that's what you want. Piece
of shit, fucking chic, pissand bitch. Oh. I see, he's
kind of a nasty mood these days. I wonder why. I definitely put
the emphasis on nasty, that's for sure. Uh. You know, there
was a story he had the holes, so it was an experiencement of course.
I said that right now. Later on, when wrestling was really hot,
Vince Junior would rent out the Joe Louis Arena in Detroit and the LA
Forum and simulcast to those places. And then when cable came into its own,
he would caught a deal with the cable companies to offer wrestling events to
their subscribers on a pay as you go basis, almost like you're paying perview.
Oh my god. So Vince actually pioneered the concept of pay perview.
It was his baby. He was a genius behind the whole thing. But
that came after January twenty third, nineteen eighty four, in Madison Square Garden.
I brought a few things to the party too, you know. One
of them was the idea of playing my theme music as I entered the arena.
When I suggested it to the Vince McMahon junior, he and his father
were on the fence about it. They weren't sure if it was going to
work. But I knew it would work. I'd played I of the Tiger
back in Minnesota, and I knew it would make the crowd go wild.
So I said it. So I said to myself, screw it. I'm
gonna get this done, even if it gets me fired again. Right And
at five in the afternoon, a few hours before we were supposed to go
on, I slipped the music tech guy five hundred bucks to play I of
the Tiger. Then right before showtime, Junior decided to go along with me
and play the entrance music. I didn't have the balls to go ask for
my five hundred dollars back, so I lost it. But it didn't matter.
The important thing is I had that music playing when I walked down the
ramp, and it worked just like I said it would. When the crowd
heard that music, almost twenty thousand people rose up like the Messiah had come
back. It was like the roof of the garden blew off. It was
nuts. The whole took five minutes and thirty seconds, and moost fans had
never seen anyone get out of the Sheik's signature hold the camel clutch, but
I did. And then I backed him into the turnbuckle. He tried another
hold, I broke it. I threw him in the ropes. When he
came off them, I gave him a boot to that. He didn't give
him over to the face booting this one does? He yeah, but he
doesn't follow it up with the lake drop. Yeah all right. Immediately he
fell in the middle of the ring, I gave him a leg drop therefor
he started counting and hal Kimania took off like never before. After the match,
the Sheik was a good sport even though he put me over and maybe
the world's champion that night, he came backstage and gave me a big hug.
Then in front of Vince McMahon Junior, he said that Verne Gagney,
who I had just screwed over, had called the Iron Sheath the night before
the match and offered him one hundred thousand dollars to break my leg in the
ring. You know, Gagney knew the Sheek because when the Sheet came over
from Iran, he went to Minneapolis to learn professional wrestling. So Vernal was
the guy who who actually broke the Sheek into the business. Now all the
match was over, that she told us what Verne Gagney had asked him to
do, but he had decided not to do it. He didn't want to
hurt me. In the end, it turned out to be a good business
decision for him. The Sheik was able to keep working as a wrestler and
make a ton of money for the next couple of years, wrestling me in
return matches. Wonderful wonderful orientation, if you will, courtesy of the Hulks
during his first book. I have one more question for you, boss,
Yes, do you have a second book? Do I have a second book?
Do you mean the uh his sequel? Yes, yes, I do.
Would you mind cracking that puppy open? Uh huh. There's a sub
chapter at least entitled wedded blip. Let's see if we can detect Eddie departures.
So he wrote that first thing before he had divorced Linda, before Hogan
knows best, right, before all that, of course, before the tnh
era smacked him in the face. As we've so well documented here on TLF.
This book, of course comes out after the separation, and he's on
the book tour doing the damage control and telling the whole story of how it
fell apart with Linda and I just just at least on the front end here
I delight in noting the just the different intonations and telling the story of his
wedding and all of this and the things he choose to emphasize this time.
And let's see, let's take it all the way through the garden to win.
Here we go. Elena and I had dated for about a year and
a half for I finally asked her to marry me. I havn't learned a
few lessons from my failed engagement with to Donna. I knew for sure that
this was the real deal. I never felt happier than when I was with
Linda, and she seemed to spend every moment with me smiling. I'd never
seen a girl smile before. The engagement was enough for her to make the
leap, and she moved to Minnesota with me into a brand new townhouse.
I just bought the first piece of property I'd own my whole life. My
schedule didn't let up, of course, and that didn't leave much room,
too much time for a wedding, so we simply made the best of it.
On December eighteenth, nineteen eighty three, I flew back from Japan for
one day. We got married in La and I went back to work the
very next night. There was no slowing down. Wedding was great, don't
get me wrong. Party was awesome. The entire crew from Japan flew back
with me, and all these wrestlers were there and turned into an all night
blowout. As the story goes, the story goes, as you told the
story. As the story goes, I got so drunk that I woke up
the next morning still in my tuxedo. So Linda and I never conseplated the
marriage until on our wedding night. Why he'd repeat that again, I don't
know what I but I don't know about the steak, brother, Yeah,
where's that detail? The best fucking detail of the ahole goddamn story. It
didn't matter. Of course, Linda knew she had me for life, and
I guess for her at the Valley Girl, it was a big deal.
He left these sentiments out, didn't he. Yeah, catch a guy is
famous and quickly becoming richest. Hulk Hogan man. She'd caught herself a big
fish. In retrospect, Linda and her whole family probably thought they had caught
themselves a sucker fish. That fucking go forty years of hulkamanias right. My
first clue was right there in front of me that night. Apparently the wedding
guests ran up a huge bar tab like twelve or fourteen thousand dollars, maybe
like maybe about twenty million dollars? Is that adjusted for inflation? From the
first story he said? He said twelve the first time. Yeah, now
over fourteen, brother, You know, as as the time goes on,
my memory kind of clicks in a little better. It's funny. So Linda's
mom came up to me and asked me to pay the bill, and I
did. That's not what That's not what happened. That's what he said before
either. Oh he said, I have cash all me from Japan. Right,
the parents of the broad usually pay for that kind of thing. Right.
You can see writing at the first time being like, uh oh,
yeah, I don't want to throw Linda's family in the bus. The second
time, is that anything that's ever happened? No, or I can throw
Linda's family under the bus. And here it is now. I have the
money on me and I also having such a good time, I just handed
it over. That's something I would wind up doing a lot over the course
of my marriage. Yeah. For the time being, though, Linda and
I were off and running a blissful husband and wife team out on the road
and live in large. You know, we didn't have time for traditional honeymoon,
but as we traveled around for my matches, staying in different hotel rooms
and partying every night those first few years, for like a honeymoon that never
ended. The man in Plaid if Verne Gagney had a big, big plans
for me. By the time I got married, Nick Bockwinkle had emerged as
the champion in Minnesota territory, and they started booking me in a steel cage
matches. You know what's fun? Why does he feel the need to fucking
retell the story anyway in the second book, like he went over all this
shit in his first book. I think he told himself this book would appeal
more to people who were drawn in to the gossip coverage of his fans,
right all right, as opposed to wrestling fans, which isn't Honestly, that's
not a bad calculation, but sure it does give us this rich opportunity to
see what he chooses to emphasize the second time and not U. And they
started booking me and steel cage matches as a primary opponent in every big city
from Salt Lake to Chicago. We were also putting our forces together with all
these big wrestlers to buy time on Channel nine in New York. We knew
we had the talent to go head to head with WWE, and with TV
time setting up setting us up, there was no telling how quickly we could
take over the New York territory. Oddly enough, that's exactly when I got
a surprise phone call from Vince mickmahon. Only this time the call came from
a very different Vince mickmahon brother. It was Vin smick Mannon Junior on the
line. Dude. When I was working for Vince Senior, his son,
Vince Junior was acting primarily as a commentator and ring announcer. You know,
and Honor the giant came out of the ring all bloody from taking a Hulk
Hogan beating. That happened, That actually happened. He beat here bloody Japan.
No in New York. Because he's talking about Vince was the guy on
the suit with the microphone getting the ringside interview. That's what he's saying.
I don't remember. Maybe the Shay Stadiu matched the risk color. I don't
think so, though. Well I don't know because Here won that match,
right, But something sure changed because now Vince Junior was a god with bigger
ambitions than I ever encountered in this business. Man. I know my dad
fired you, but my dad's going to retire. Retire, I say,
expire, sorry, my dad's going to expire. I'm sorry his his contract
is going to expire and he's going to retire and live under the wire.
You can't just say in the close circuit point, huh, the close circuit
point that he does right, and I'm gonna and I'm taking over the business.
So we've been watching how great you're doing in Minnesota, and we want
to bring you in and make you our champion. I was flattered, I
guess, but i'd also been burned by the McMahons before you look. I'm
I'm more on three years here and I'm doing really well. You know,
I only worked four days a week and I just bought a townhouse. He
kept interrupting. He didn't want to hear my excuses. And what I'm what
I'm saying is we want to give you the biggest push of all. I'm
going to take over this business. I have plans to change the wrestling business
and make you the biggest star in the world. McMahon's only controlled wrestling in
that in that New York, Connecticut and Massachusetts quarter. Didn they also have
d C, d C Philadelphia right up to northern Virginia. They had they
were running West Virginia, Maine, New Hampshire, Pas quite a massive uh
uh uh. You know it's a good It's the most populous cities in the
United States of America, right right, Yeah, But but he was talking
about going everywhere worldwide. So Vince recognized how popular I made this hul Cogan
character, and he shared the same vision I had that I could take this
character anywhere. He insisted on meeting me in person, and a few days
later he flew into the Minneapolis Saint Paul Airport. I'dland to go pick him
up. You know, all I can tell you is is you're gonna see
a guy in a plaid tweed suit with big shoulder pads. I told.
I told her, I don't know if he's ever word tweet. I don't
know, I don't know. Yeah, he's a pretty geeky looking guy.
Back then, he's he always was a geeky looking guy, right, But
now this isn't a WWE book and they're on bad term, so he's got
to throw that in there. I mean, he's always a geeky looking like
he never fucking you know. Maybe the tuxedos worked all right, but that
was about it. Everything else looked weird. I'm I guess his his heel
character stuff was okay too, but yeah, sure enough. She picked him
right out of the airport and Linda brought Vince back to my townhouse and we
sat around drinking wine and eating pizza. I must have loved that Minneapolis pizza.
You imagine can and I can't imagine how great Minneapolis style pizza is.
Talking about his vision, I thought they met at the airport, we'll get
there, okay. The idea was to take the WWE to venues all across
the country and around the world, with Hulk Hogan leaving the charge, and
to go national with big TV events. I don't think we talked about that
that first night. But Vince Junior is a guy whose spearheaded the whole content
of the pay per viewed TV. He didn't beat that one. Yeah,
it's true. But on the closed circuit thing, there's evidence of close circuit
wrestling as but far back as the forties there's no Of course, you know,
there was Twill and Manila was a bigger closed circuit event than wwf ever
went on to do. In fact, you know that that publicity we went
through on this American work of that, that close circuit operation in Bob Aarram.
That was one of Vince Junior's first promotional endeavors around the Evil Knieval things
right right, It was being the local promoter for the closed circuit availability of
Thrill in Manila. They totally I mean, boxing was clearly doing it before
Vince Senior was making it a habit that felt form run over to the Shaye
Stadium shows all that, and it looks like there even may have been close
circuit screenings in La in the seventies during the Fred Blassie John Tolos Olympic.
Yeah, no kidding, wow, before cable was everywhere, he had the
idea the simul cast Madison Square Garden events on big screens and the stadiums and
other markets instantly doubling, tripling, quadrupling the audience for every big match.
Yeah. Who they don't count that as like part of the gross do they
ever do that? Like talking about how you know, they only talk about
it like single arenas, But you know, wouldn't if you got people,
Yeah going to an arena, I would count it too, like you know,
had another like forty thousand people maybe, yeah, if you went to
if you have five thousand people in other in eight different venues around the country.
Well, we talk about you know, you know, wrestling in the
Garden battle for New York, the J. Michle Kenyon book and Scott TiAl
being like the Bible of MSG wrestling records, and they always they always delineate
like so that with you know, five thousand overflow. It felt for him,
right, So they always they always tell you yeah, But they didn't
always open felt for him because the garden itself wasn't always full right right with
all the fly by night promoters and how and even the great promoters I'd worked
within this business, I never encountered a vision as big as Vince's and lined
up with all I had in my head about how big this thing, this
thing, brother yo, and lining up with all I had in my head
about how big this thing could become? The monstrous vision I had when I
first realized the wrestling was as much a performance as it was a sporting event,
when I knew that I could be great in it, Vince's passion coming
so fired up, there was no way I could say no to the guy.
Right around four o'clock in the morning, we shook hands. One of
the fun it's a lot of pizza and wine. I mean what he picked.
So he picked him up when and you're up till four in the morning,
and then you shake hands. Two days later, I locked the dorm
of that townhouse and walked away from Minnesota, knowing I'd never be back beating
the chink. Linda and I settled into apartment in West Haven, Connecticut,
and I immediately started going back and forth to wrestle again for the WWETV tabings
in Allentown. There's just one problem. Vince Senior hadn't retired yet, which
meant that he was still calling the shots even as Vince Junior was starting to
step in. As soon as I arrived, I could tell Vince Senior was
a little uncomfortable having me around, partially because of the way things ended between
us once I figured, and probably because the other wrestlers were so pissed off
about myself an arrival. Weren't they used to people coming in and out of
the territory? Yes, I would think, so, so what who cares?
What does his sudden arrival have to do with anything? His sudden arrival
on WWF on the return? Yeah? Why? Why would Why would that
make Vince Senior a little uncomfortable. I mean, the best way he's described
it is that Vince Senior, if he had his brothers, would not have
brought Hulk back because he gave him the ultimatum about doing Rocky three. But
he doesn't say that. He says the other well, he mentions that.
He says because of the way things that in between us, and probably because
the other wrestlers were so pissed off about my sudden arrival. Now, how
do the other wrestlers being pissed off about? I mean, first of all,
why would they be pissed off? And how would they're being pissed off
make Vince feel anything for Hulk Hogan? That's the great nice business. I
bet, like you know, your snookers, your slaughters, yea thought that
they were in line for a title run, sure, and like Hogan coming
in their only reason to bring him in. But again, totally I get
how that why they're feeling like that, But why are their feelings making Vince
Senior feel uncomfortable around Hulk Hogan? Well? Probably like it's that tribal as
we talked about, because all the pre existing Baby Face headliners before Hulk's arrival
were very loyal to Vince Senior and didn't take Vince Junior very seriously. And
so we're probably chirping in Vince Senior's here, what's Hulk doing here? What's
the deal? Like? What the fuck? Probably stressed him now that way,
all right, And they knew this Hulk Hogan thing was about to eclipse
whatever fan base they had built for themselves. Bob Backland, it was supposed
to be my tag team partner, wouldn't even get in the ring with me.
It was all sort of that sort of small time crap, a small
time crap that Vince j and I were ready to put behind them. Yeah.
Yeah, those those lines resonated from Vince's mouth to Hogan's years very well
because it justified all manner of big footing. Terry, I just want to
say, i'm, I'm. My main goal is to put that small time
crap behind us. All right, we're talking about big time crap. I
want to take a big time crap with hul Cocaine. I knew that was
fucking coming. We're talking dukie, lots of dukie, hard dukie, soft
dukie, different shapes, different sizes, different consistencies. Dukie as far as
reality can see. As far as reality can see, That's what I said,
not as far as our imaginations can reality sees the Dukie. In fact,
our plan for world domination was already in motion. Just a few weeks
after my return. We were gearing up for this massive coup in Madison Square
Garden. Not long before that, the Iron Chic had won the championship from
Bob. It was all part of a storyline that would have Bob Backlan back
in the Garden to win that belt back from him on January twenty third,
nineteen eighty four. That was Vince Senior's plan. Vince Junior decided to put
me in that ring against the Iron Sheek instead, to give Hulk Hogan the
World Championship belt and start building this thing into something much bigger. This thing,
well, build a s on, build this thing to the next,
take this thing on the next level. Brother, fascinating. I mean,
look, if there's truth to that that Vince Senior was pushing a Backland rematch,
which you know, Backland was led to believe, and Vince Junior pulled
the powerplay, I'd love to hear that that dialogue, man, because ah,
it's my company, Dad. No it's not yes, it is no,
it's not Vinnie edan idea. It's not your company. Yet. You
know, you got to prove to me that you can you can make that
you can make their right decisions, that you can take this and and and
uh, you know, go to that next level that I've said it before,
I'll say it again. We both know you don't have much longer to
live. Why do you keep saying that, Vinnie? I mean you said
that a couple of times. I don't understand. What what is it?
Are you? Are you wanting me to die? Vinnie? Is that what
you're asking me? Is that what you're telling me right now? What I'm
not I'm not saying I want you to die. I'm just saying that you
will, like everybody else will, we all will, We'll all die.
I'm gonna die someday, maybe maybe not, who knows, but you know
the time, the time will come when when you know you might take your
your ultimate plunge. My, what the fuck does that even mean? Ultimate
plunge? Listen, there is no way in hell, as long as blood
runs through these veins, that Hulk Hogan, that big fucking buffoon is going
to be champion of my territory. My territory, Dad, my territory.
Okay, it's not your territory yet. Okay, well man, whatever you
say, just keep looking like John Voight and shut them fuck up. All
right, we'll tell you what, Dad, Why don't all right? You
know what, I'll tell you what. We'll do it. We'll have Backland
win back the championship. Ah No, that's the spirit of conciliation I was
looking for. Now we can start to build a relationship here around this thing.
January twenty third, nineteen eighty four. All right, you know we'll
have a thing. Trust me. I will take care of it. You
just take care of yourself. You know what, Dad, I understand your
vision. I see where you're going, and Backland's the key. Uh huh
is it? Mm hmm. You suddenly just turn your I mean you just
turn your your your you change your mind all of a sudden. Just not
nothing like that. I mean, just no problem insert jingling quarters sound.
I know, I was all around my office something. I was like,
uh, I just you know, I think I think I think you're wrong
with this guy. I think you're wrong that I agree, you know what.
My My eyes were bigger than my stomach. Yeah, I'm learning,
learn from you, learn from the best. I'll make this right, I
promise. Patterson's what's up, boss? I want you to kill Bob Becklin
and then I want you to kill my dad hard. I guess one out
of two way bad? Is that all the Hulk has for a second tone?
Oh no, I didn't think so. We're still laying the groundwork here,
folks. Keep that in mind. Yeah, vision, there are a
lot of There are lots of rumors about what happened that night. Here's what
I know to be true. For one, Verne Gagne, who is furious
I left his Minnesota plans high and dry, called the Iron Chic and offered
him money to punish me in the ring. Here's what I know. Keep
that in mind. And gentlemen, no, not only no, no,
to be true, Hey, keep that in mind. In one swift move,
the Iron Cheek would have landed a lucrative deal to go wrestle in Minnesota
while simultaneously eliminating Vince's new star. I almostly don't think that plan would have
worked. Even the Sheik somehow managed to give to give me hell, there
was so much love for Hulk Hogan among the fans that it would have created
a massive wave of sympathy for me. I probably would have blown up even
bigger, even faster, even stronger, and the Chik would have been so
hated that he very well might have faded into oblivion in the Midwest. Plus,
I think the Irone, I think the Sheik was smart enough to see
the big picture, the bigger picture of what Vince Junior was trying to set
up, which would be worth a hell of a lot more than what Gagney
was offering if it all worked out. The obstacle was Vince Senior. A
short time before the big match, he took me aside and said, and
I'd say, we may have to put this off for a while. We
may, we may change our plans. I couldn't believe it. I knew
he was just caving into Bob Backland, who had been winning, whining,
complaining ever since he heard that I was going to win the belt. He
didn't think it was right that anybody who wasn't a quote real athlete would hold
the belt. That was his excuse, that I hadn't been a real amateur
wrestler like he had. He got pretty he got awful petty about the whole
thing. At one point, when he didn't seem to be getting his way,
he went to Vince Senior and said, by the way, hull Cogan
smokes pot. Oh my god, this is Backland saying this. Yes.
Oh. That led to all these questions in the locker room, all kind
of problems for me. Hold on a second, I got to jump to
this. I didn't. I didn't realize this was coming. Okay, So
ww did a book WW fifty, celebrating fifty years of sports entertainment. It's
like a fucking coffee table book and it looks back with pretty, you know,
pretty wide open eyes as to the little pieces along the way that built
a WWF. And it has this pull quote from Bob Backland in it.
The whole book is shoot and this is Backland's quote with his fucking mister Backland
bow tie on in the photo. And this is on the whole ca Mania
page. I've always said that hul Cogan was a quagmire and a sea of
hypocrisy, Oh my god, and I meant it. When he talks for
two minutes on TV. He doesn't walk the walk, and I know it,
but he was very good at vibrating the TV. He could make the
TV shake. I couldn't. He made them listen and he got them in
the palm of his hands. But he did he do it in the long
run. Okay, he was saying good things, but he wasn't applying it
to himself. He was cheating, he was lying, and he was swearing.
And that's what I mean by him being a quagmire in a sea of
hypocrisy. It was good enough for your kids, but it wasn't good enough
for him. He wasn't going to live up to it. He took the
easy road behind the scenes. Anybody could do it. It's the easy road,
it's the downhill road. Where is his life now? Where is he
at right now? Wow? He made the wrong decision and he knows it,
and he knows I was right. He won't question that at all.
I'm his role model Backland. He's bought Backlan saying that he's Hulk Cogan's that's
right, guys, out of his fucking mind. I'll tell you, I
miss I'm I would have voted for him for president, easy, easily,
all right, That's all would have taken. Jesus uh So when Vincinia pulled
me aside to say we might not fall through the plan I'd been promised by
Vince Junior. I basically told him, I said he could forget about having
Hulk COVID and stick around. Look, Vince, if you're changing your plans,
I just burned a huge bridge in Minnesota. I'll go right back tonight
and rebuild that bridge. I told him, I don't know if you burn
a bridge, can you rebuild it that fast? Yeah? There was a
didn't bridge fall down in Minnesota one year that was so see, yeah,
that's right. You know. Vince Junior stepped into that point. He pulled
us out aside for a long conversation. I don't know what he said,
but he eventually came back to me and said, we're going with things as
planned. So on January twenty third, ninet eighty four, I climbed into
the ring in Madison Square Garden, turn on all the Hulk Hogan charm,
and with the audience into a frenzy, is I won the belt from the
Iron Chic, my very first championship belt. Ern Gagney, the guys out
in Florida and the wrestlers in Memphis and Alabama might not have agreed with it
at the moment. At that moment, I became the biggest and best in
the world, and didn't matter what any of the old school wrestling guys thought,
because audiences were ready to embrace Hulk Hogan like they'd never embraced any other
wrestler in the history of this business. Right out with the old, in
with the new, hul Comania had officially exploded. Fucking hell, you're goddamn
right, that's amazing. Lay that fact pattern down, so we've heard this
is what he knows to be true, right exactly, So we have to
start with what hul Cogan knows to be true before we could even begin trying
to discern the truth of the birth of the WWF. Hul Comania. But
no matter which way you slice it or whose version you take to the grave.
January twenty third, nineteen eighty four a seismic knight in pro wrestling history,
and so we're going to attack it as hard as we can on three
fronts. First, of course, what you're witnessing now are traditional part one,
where we lay down the historical context for all that's known and said and
believed and not believed about this historic night. We're also going to next week
present to you a very special interview. We're excited about this boss, because
we got an advanced peek at a forthcoming book about this precise era in WWS,
some wonderful leg work done. The author's name is Brad Belucci, and
he wrote a book about opening up an old pack of nineteen eighties baseball cards.
He called it the Wax Pack, and tracking down what came of every
baseball player that was in this random pack. And it turned into a wonderful
road journal, you know, as he uses his guile and his passion for
the road to find these folks and get their stories into sort of soak in
their atmosphere. And as a huge wrestling fan and a particular Iron Chic fan,
he applied the same ethic to the forthcoming book The six Pack, which
is a reference to the six wrestlers who he was able to track down who
were in the garden the night in December nineteen eighty three that Iron Cheek dethroned
Bob Beckland to become the WWF champion. Now, Brad went on to be
the short lived biographer of the Iron Chic, but as the she was encountering
all kinds of different problems, most of them drug fueled. In the oughts,
it became very clear that having him sit for the period of time it
would take to execute a biography was completely impossible. But he did get to
know the Sheik very very well, intimately in a way that few others did,
and tells the story rather beautifully in this forthcoming book. It's going to
come out around the week of WrestleMania. I think April's second is the release
date, so watch very closely for it, because after this interview, we
definitely have a friend in Brad Yes, indeed, and it was great to
hear him take us into his reporting journey trying to track down not only the
Sheik again and in fact ending up attending his funeral and rekindling his relationship with
the family as Iron Cheek was in declining health. Also Tito Santana, his
adventures trying to find Sergeant Slaughter, even going to Puerto Rico to track down
wrestlers, All kinds of ground covered the time he spent with so many folks.
Is Bill Edy is another one who, of course was in the promotion
at the time as the Mask superstarred in fact, right, boss on this
car, isn't that he does? Yes, he does. It's all.
It's all such a wonderful glimpse into how the business worked back then and what
became of everybody that was in the in the sauce when hul Comania came bursting
in the front door and switched up the whole idea of what it meant to
work out of New York. So we're very much excited to bring you that,
and he's going to shed a lot of perspective on what the Iron Cheeks
kind of process was like, dealing with being nothing more than a transitional champion
and having very little opportunity to ever be anything more than that. You know,
as frustrated as Billy Graham was with his like two years as champion,
can you imagine if you thought you had that in you two year run atop
of the garden, all the money that could mean, and Jesus Christ,
you thought you could dridge so many people turning away challengers as a babyface champion
could defending And I never got that opportunity. But it turned out to be
such a special night for cosro Visieri. The night he won the title,
his family was there a lot of great color to come, so do keep
a blocked for that because we're gonna have exclusive details in there, exclusive in
that he's talking about them for I believe one of the first times in an
interview right even about the naming of the first WrestleMania, which is a tasty
nugget tracking down people who worked with Vince Junior, a very very beginning of
Titan Sports. So tasty, Boss, so tasty. So we're excited to
bring that little Elextra reportage to the table courtesy of Brad Luccian. Look out
for that, and then we'll deliver the Deep Dive on week three, our
traditional look top to bottom match by match and really get back to that,
get back to our roots and soak in the atmosphere. And this is what
an atmosphere to soak in. Boss. That pop when Hogan wins that belt,
undenied realty, I mean, you know, it's the you know,
there have been many times we've watched shows that have had the the the ww's
re editing of music, and it's truly amazing to hear I have a tiger,
yes, and to hear the fans react to that too. The fact
that that doesn't survive on the earliest Hollcoke in WWF is a crime, yes,
because you realize one of the key things for him to connect with the
American public, such as he did across the airwaves on the MTV War to
Settle the Score, and the other times that you know, he made an
entrance on national television NBC as well. It's like, this is just fucking
epic to the nth degree, and it puts everyone in that Rocky three frame
of mind, which is really right. You've talked about this in a brilliant
episode of Under the Cinemat, which also might I don't know, that might
be begging to shed its skin, that might be begging to uh oh,
it's true, I might have let that one out. Maybe I'll let that
one out push out over the open. This would be the time it was
Hogan showing up in Rocky three and becoming this national international movie star due to
that role. Yep, that transformed him from the heel cape wearing Freddy Blasting
managed to incredible Hulk Hogan too. But you know, damn well, if
the w would not does not want to acknowledge that it's that well, Vince
Senior certainly didn't because it was his It was his faux pa to to basically
guilt Hogan into quitting New York to take the movie opportunity. But Vince wants
to. Vince wants to make you believe that he created Hulk Hogan in Hulkamania.
You know, I would imagine that's because to me, it's like,
why not just fucking splurge and spend the money to license the fucking song.
But they don't want they don't want that connection. Well, I think Hogan
to hear Hogan tell it, and I know that that's a fraught statement in
and of itself. He sort of was the one insisting on playing the music
because he was already playing it in the AWA and it was such a no
no, I know, no, no, no, no, I know,
I'm talking about not licensing it now. Oh right, in the replays,
I'm saying, I'm saying, they don't want to do that now.
They don't want to They don't want to make that they don't want to make
that connection now. They want to make it seem that they build Hulkogan.
Right, And he came out with this prepackaged entrance music of They're doing Yeah,
right, Yeah, it's it's an interesting thought. It's definitely not you
know, they don't even fucking care about the archives anymore, let alone shelling
out money to make sure we get the organic experience. But you know that,
I'm sure that's only gonna get better as the horse pass. When the
Peacock contract is up, we don't have access to any archives anymore, I
know, then you'll learn your lesson. Fortunately we do. You're not going
to catch us lacking after ten years, not at all going to build this
kind of fucking you know, force of nature esque following to not be as
well resourced as hell wrestling podcast on the planet. At the end of we
gotta we got our own you know what, We got our own vault.
Yeah. When people want you to succeed as much as you want to succeed,
then those kind of things, those kinds of disconnects end up being taken
care of ye over time. So we're feeling good about that. But it's
it's a great opportunity to really flex all the muscles we have here at TLF
at a time that I'd like to think Boss, maybe more people than ever
are listening in. We have to consider the possibility that we're welcoming a whole
new wave of people that are checking us out for the first time. That's
I think so because of the massive announcement from our friends at Vice TV and
Dark Side of the Ring TLFX style, right, ten years going, that's
right, undeniable, you know, Yeah, Oh my god, I mean,
it's it's it's actually, it's amazing to me that it all kind of
happens at this point. You know, there's there's I remember hearing a manager
or or an agent or something like that saying it takes I'm not trying to
say this like in the way that it's suddenly you know, we're it's it's
a it's a megathing, but like they say, it takes ten years to
be to make an overnight success. Yeah, that's right, you know,
And I was like, how crazy is it that that ten years in we
get this incredible opportunity. A lot of doubters and detractors pretending they didn't see
the news that Dark Side of the Ring has partnered with your co chairs.
You know, we've had Evan Husny from the show on several times, yes,
talking about how our you know, our catalog and our research lead has
helped a lot of their episodes, and we've been happy to help them tell
stories on a few occasions. But here is a really formal public facing alliance
where we're presenting dark side of the Ring Unheard. Yes, and what's meant
by unheard is we are pouring through all of the interviews that they have done,
hundreds of them, it seems, or at least hundreds of hours worth
of interviews. Unreal, The the the amount of content they have is just
it's just unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah, they've believed so many people. I
mean, you think of some of those episodes. They got nine ten voices
in there, right, and they you know, it's forty minute episode,
forty four minute episode. You're gonna leave a lot on the cutting room floor,
a lot of gems. You have no choice. You gotta tell a
story in a cohesive way. And yep, a lot of the stuff is
you know, set up and you know, talking to guys about where they
came from and how they came up and the business and the lessons they learned
and the colorful stories of their career. That just ended the narrative of the
episode. And you got forty two minutes to tell the story. That's exactly
right, you know. I mean, it's it's it's it's funny, you
know. I mean, I don't know what the deal is, but I'm
I'm you know, some of those stories, I'm like you, I could
see a whole season of some of the stuff. Yeah, you know,
I mean, especially because we know exactly how how crazy, how much detail
goes into you know, is actually a part of some of these stories,
you know, from the van Erics or the Steroid Trial or Benoir or whatever.
It's like, man, you could you could really do a whole semi
grant, I don't know if if many people would be as interested in the
whole season of that stuff as we would be, but you know, nonetheless,
I I it's it's it's a hard job what they do, having to
having to really narrow stuff down to that, to that very very tight time
limit. And and I'm glad and i am excited that we are there to
help shed some light on on these you know, these these these moments from
the cutting room floor, to curate them to be able to say, like,
you know, yes, we also it's not like laps fan. We
can't do a six hour podcast because that's what the moment calls for, you
know where to find that if that's what you need. Yes, but even
we have to go through the exercise of being like, okay, well,
knowing what we know about so many of the storylines running through these transcripts and
these archives. Knowing what we know about kind of the baseline understanding of your
run of the mill average wrestling fan. What's new here, what's really relevatory?
What says things in a perfectly encapsulated way. What are some funny anecdotes
that you know they don't always say, but kind of just up organically in
the back and forth of the interview for the episode. Those kinds of things
we try to do our best to isolate and to bring to you, to
surface, to make sure, like everything else we do here at TLF,
it lives on the on the shelf. Let the shelf life dynamic. Upon
our tenth year extend over to our friends at Dark Side of the Ring the
time, I am fucking right. The decision has been made, the reality
is now setting in and it's all well deserved, and so we're very excited
to be able to bring you Dark Side of the Ring unheard, which,
of course, like this show be available on all your major podcast platforms when
it starts to publish in February. The Dark Side of the Ring Season five
will premiere March fifth on Vice TV, and you can expect new episodes of
Dark Side of the Ring Unheard on Wednesdays, the day after the Tuesday airing
of the latest television episode of the new season. Ton of good subjects it's
out there publicly, the kind of guys they're covering in the stories and the
lives and the times and the sagas Black Saturday coming your way, something about
math. We indeed so very excited to be able to make the endnouncement last
week that a dark set of the Ring Unheard is going to be brought to
you in no small part by TLF. In fact, we're damn right sort
of driving the boat in terms of like they're turning the materials over to us
and they'll be joining us on the show to just chop it up and reflect
and it's it's such a blast, so very grateful for that opportunity and it's
the way it should be. We've got the mail bag cleaned wide out because
last time, before Reive it was a full scale marathon Mailbag session. Laps
Funk put us in a position where we really hadn't tapped the mail bag in
six months, so we're really excited. Maybe less than that, maybe four
months, But come with your missives because it'll be soon time again, maybe
for spring mail bag show. The lapsed fan atmail dot com is the email
and send us any reflections thoughts you have. We've got shows upcoming. We've
got the Royal Rumble two thousand and eight, which we know is coming.
Yes we do as as part of our giving away a free Hopper pick for
a holiday gift to those who weren't able to win the hopper last year but
bit aggressively twenty eight Royal Rumble to pick there. So if you have anything
to say, any reflections, recollections, anything we ought to know about that
show, any personal experiences you have about that night when John Cena came in
number thirty to win the Rumble, we'd love to have them and incorporate them
into the episode. I have one. I have one, one small story.
I'm gonna sure the whole thing, but I can tell you. I'll
talk about it when the time comes, but I can tell you this.
I was in Belgium when the Royal rumble. Wow, it happened. Yes,
we are you able to see it? I watched. I didn't watch
it live, but I know that I watched a replay. Got it or
something or it was. It was one of the early uses of YouTube.
I know I saw something on my laptop. Wow. Some more details on
that front, and hopefully the Solar System can color it in a bit as
well, and anything anything that's on your mind about the business. We love
these letters. You know the tone you've heard the feedback shows over the years,
but I just felt obliged to remind you as now in the very very
rare position of having an empty mail bag, that we'd love to hear from
you. Among the things you can send us are not only missives, but
also audio recollections, as you've been seeing every Monday on the feed in the
spirit of TLFX, we've been presenting messages recorded by different members of the Solar
System as to what tlf has meant to them. Oh yeah, sort of
like clift notes on how you could explain this show to your family when they
ask you what is that eight hour podcast you listen to every week? And
hopefully across section from the constellation of Solar System members explaining exactly why it is
that we have such a hold on them will provide ample fodder for your explanatory
purposes, but for nothing else. Just listen in to hear from your fellow
Solar System members. Put the words to the thoughts and feelings you've had over
ten years of the show, and please send in your own recollections. Just
record them on your phone, no big heavy lift. Just send an audio
missive as long or short as you want to the lapsed fan at gmail dot
com. We'll take them under consideration and put the best ones up in the
spirit of TLFX recollections every week here on the field for as long as we
feel like doing it. And further to that point, something else. You
also need to get into our mailbox pretty quickly here as we approach the end
of February. If you can believe it, oh yeah, unbelievable. Here
in mid February, you need to send us proof of purchase for your tickets.
April seventh, high noon. Punchline Philly is the comedy Club Philadelphia,
Pennsylvania is the city WrestleMania forty weekend. Yes, indeed, oh, Chairman
take that fucking stage. Oh boy, once a year if that is an
opportunity like this, and the mic is hot, and you know, the
the the Overton windows a little wider in terms of where we can go in
our commentary and our humor and all the other things that you expect from us,
don't expect. You know, you still can't find a complete recording of
the of the show we did last year in la for Ustle Media Weekends.
So that's right. Don't assume you're gonna be able to catch this any other
way, but in person. Sunday, April seventh, News Time, It's
special. This is special. Yeah, it's gonna be one. Just seeing
all the people that have bought tickets already, and just thinking of the short
list I would have in my head of people in the Solar System that I
would just love to see comes to something like this, it's like ven percent
of them already have bought tickets. Yep, yep, which is really a
special feeling. People getting on planes, people flying from as far away as
Australia to be with us, people who didn't have plans to go to WrestleMania
in Philadelphia. That's my favorite. That is my favorite people who don't have
plans to go because they're actually laughing right exactly, and were the voice.
We're their voice. But at the same time, we can't be totally lapsed
and still stay as current as we need to to get the show to you.
So it's wonderful to see people that actually can live it in so many
more concrete ways come to see this as well. So go over to Punchline
Philly. Just good, you know, going to Google, put Punchline Philly
in and you'll find their calendar section. When you see that, you'll be
able to search lapsed and just search laps because it's still a bit down on
the calendar. It's not front page yet, and find our biceps, Bozos
and bullshit brunch that's right of the traditional wrestling new weekend brunch courtesy of the
fine I'm sure the fine kitchen staff at Punchline Philly. I would expect nothing
less. Drinks will be flowing as well. And the reason you need to
send those proof of purchase why do you need to do this? Not only
because the time is nigh when we're going to start emailing you folks and asking
for your phone numbers, so that just like we did last year. We
can give you a phone call and have you explain why you need to be
in Philadelphia April seventh for the Lapsed Fan Live Bozo's Biceps and Bullshit Brunch and
put that audio out there for everybody to hear so that they can get a
sense of just how fruitless it is to pretend that this isn't a fucking massive
deal. But also yeah, because an early bird purchase of your tickets enters
you into an exclusive raffle. Oh no, as we disclosed on the last
leg of the Lapsed Funk Journey, So proud to be able to bring this
to our listeners, and so many great messages so far of people just jonesing
for the opportunity to win this thing. They are bringing to Philly an authentic
Terry Funk branding iron MMMM acquired in the estate sale of Terry Funk upon his
unfortunate passing by TLF as part of our effort to really bring a Lapsed Funk
home with a bang, we did it. We're in possession of this branding
iron. Pretty sure it's the one who used in ECW. I can find
promos he did with a branding iron in his hand with the ECW backdrop that
looked like the one also looks like the one he may have used in WCW
in two thousand and a, Major League Wrestling and other indies throughout the two
thousands. We're going to do a raffle and if you buy the preferred seating
at at Punchline, Philly. Not many left, but this this sort of
like the first two rows guaranteed right up on top of your coach chairman,
the kind of experience you in your in your mind, you would expect to
have coming to a show like this. But this is a pretty big venue,
just spatially, so it's not going to be as a sure thing that
you just show up and you're going to be able to have great sidelines.
So if you go for the preferred ticket, that will entitle you if you
only if you sent this proof of purchase to the Lapsed fan at gmail dot
com, that will entitle you to two raffle tickets for each preferred ticket you
buy and every general admission ticket you buy. If again, you send that
proof of purchase to the lapsed Fan at gmail dot com, will entitle you
to one raffle ticket. We'll get on stage, we'll we'll get all organized
and we'll present the branding iron to the winner in the city where he tried
to burn down the ECW Arena. Essentially Terry Funk did because he's a sane
individual, so so excited. This is like TLFX has a way of just
becoming a thing without us even Oh, things just start happening, things start
popping. The energy is so tremendous. It's absolutely tremendous. It's so incredibly
exciting. And we haven't even hit you with the full roster that our pal
Ray Goots is working on in terms of our friends from the stand up comedy
world. We're going to make it to Punchline Philly, to chop up WrestleMania
Night one, which would have been in the books at that point, and
look ahead to WrestleMania Night too. It's not like there's going to be a
lack of things to talk about, boss, No, not at all.
I imagine. I imagine there's going to be. Ah, you know,
I'm sure something interesting will happen at Night one, or maybe not, maybe
it'll just be a complete shit show. Uh you know, I'm I still
think that uh you know, Rock may fucking leave WrestleMania with the world title.
Did you say Brock a Rock a rock Man Brock too for that matter,
maybe they both will. I think Brock may may beat Seth Rock.
I you know, I know that they've cut out he cut him out,
But you know what, it's still a long way to WrestleMania, and there's
plenty of time for shit to just kind of smooth over it. And I
don't night Lincoln financial Field. The last thing you see when they put the
logo up in the corner is Rock on the middle rope hoisting the title above
his head. Yes, I can, I can imagine that. I don't
and you imagine that. I'm I'm listen. I'm I'm not convinced that any
stories will be finished. Okay, you can talk about it. Look,
I don't know if they changed their plans and did all the weird shit that
happened, but I'm I am not convinced that director Board Director is Dwayne the
Rock. Johnson is not above putting himself over in the main event of Wrestlmania
forty board director, and he's a bo r ed director as well as he
needs to inject some electricity in his life, and what better way than to
lean in. Of course, of course, listen, he had a rough
year, man, you know, fucking sag strike going on, and he's
shelling out money to people I don't know who. I didn't get any of
that money, but you know, merging. Yeah, just all these mergers,
merging the rock and so much balance sheet activity, so much leverage.
I just you know, he's you know what, I love you. I
tell you what I absolutely find to be the most hysterical and just like such
bullshit thing. Now is that all of a sudden, now that he's a
member of the board of directors of TKO, all of a sudden, at
least I've never seen it before, All of a sudden, he's sporting spectacles.
All of a sudden, he's got these fucking glasses where I just can
see him in his fucking you know office, his home office. You know,
I imagine a like a like a pictorial and like Time magazine, and
you see him, you know, behind his desk, and he's like,
you know, looking down at papers and like balance sheets and PNL sheets and
all this gar all this accounting garbage, you know, with his special Yeah,
exactly exactly. Pl She's he's got you know, he's wearing a button
down shirt but his sleeves are rolled up and you know, no tie.
You know, just complete asshole. It's a good time to be a fan,
man, he's leaning into it. He's a heel again. I listen.
I fucking love it. I love that fair game. I'm I'm a
fan of heel Rock. So but you know, here and here's the thing,
how long how long do you think it'll take for heel rock to be
so fucking over again like he like he was in two thousand and two?
We go through the same cycles, don't we. Where Like fans want cool
heels as their baby faces, they don't want anything else. I mean Cody
is like exceptional in that. Yeah, he hasn't had to play any games,
and the people still go pretty nuts for him. Yes, but that's
hard to maintain overtime. You got to be really sharp and really smart about
what you do and don't say on that stick to not provoke a backlash.
He got it eventually in a w I think the key is keeping Brandy off
his off his arm on television. As lovely as she is, you know,
I mean, there's no way you can't trust You've got a hot wife,
all right, nobody needs the fucking you know, unless you're gonna be
a heel, you don't need the hot wife. You remember when Becky and
Seth were on the screen together. Death, Yes, death, of course,
it's the same kind of thing. Nobody cares. Again, We've said
it, I've said it before, I'll say it again. Wrestlers should never
wrestlers on TV. Yes, should never have or at least never talk about
others. Ever. Yeah, never, ever. I don't want to believe
that they need to be a sexual animals. Well, yeah, it just
it. It makes you think of a side of them that's not box office,
right. It makes them all of a sudden just seem like, you
know, guys you see at the gym on a Tuesday, which they are.
But do we really have to rub it in our faces? They ever
mentioned that Hulk Coben is married once? No, you know what I mean?
Never, and and and it was absolutely death when they did it with
son Cold Steve Austin, Oh yeah it was. It was awful when he
started bringing Debora to the fucking the shows. It was awful, so bad,
yep, Yeah, they flirted with having that part of the wrestlminga seventeen
story and they dropped that cold because it was fucking death to have Debora involved,
maybe going on Mean Rock or something. Occasionally it's like, it's okay,
if if, if it fits a storyline in some fashion, but you
know, it's a very rare occurrence. Like I didn't mind. I know
I'm probably one of the rare people, but I didn't mind. You know,
the the Sarah involvement with DDP and shit, Oh really yeah, I
didn't mind that. That was fine with me for some reason. Interesting,
well, you did have a guy who had gotten as much mileage out of
his previous incarnation as he possibly could have. Sure, so it's not like
you're, you know, robbing someone of upside at that point and take her.
But you know, even that was kind of that. That wasn't very
flattering for Undertaker. That knocked him down a peg to be out there.
You know, of course, Savage Elizabeth like it's different if it's a heel,
you know, likes miss with course like of course absolutely invented missus whole
fucking upside a heel, A heel. All that is money. It's money,
all day, no matter, absolutely right, So all that and more
happening here at TLFHQ. Looking forward to breaking all that down as it unfolds,
and of course a place to be for all of our exclusive audio is
Patreon dot com slash the Lapsed Fan. That's where we drop our monthly live
calls of wwep l e's the Elimination Chamber for a quick note is going to
be delivered, but it's going to be delivered out of a delay. It
takes place on a vacation week here in the States right or at least our
part of the country, so we're gonna be a little bit behind. Plus
it's kind it's gonna be on like five in the morning or something stupid.
I remember those FC cards in Australia. It's like, I mean, they
can align it such that it's five in the morning in Australia and it's it's
primetime here, so I'm not really worried about that. But it's just wacky.
It's like, it's just not it doesn't have the characteristics of a show
that you absolutely have to watch, and it happens. It's like the Crown
Jewel shows, which we you know, it's fine to do one delay,
and I'm sure by the time it's over, only the chamber matches and Rhea's
match, which I think will be a chamber match. It being in Australia
would have mattered, So we're gonna hit that. But again, just another
proof point. I'm sure they're gonna fill that place. And it's a great
chance to go to Perth and it's, you know, a great chance to
bring a PLA to a new market. So I can't argue with the business
psychology of it. Once again, elimination Chamber just fucks up the Mania vibe.
You know. It's just like everyone has to be promoting them. You
have Becky Lynch and Ria Ripley face to face on stage at the Vegas Press
conference promoting their match at Mania, and it's like Ria Ripley's got to get
through somebody elimination chamber, and we're just pretending that's not a thing. It's
I mean, listen, it's it's it's a fine thing to happen if you're
if you're not fully set up on your other matches, yeah, which they
always are, and I feel like they forced themselves to delay. But but
it's like you don't don't don't have a thing that might that could have essentially
affect that match, Like you know, you could have other matches that don't
involve you know, uh uh uh Rhea Ripley defending her championship. You know,
like you I don't know, like that should they shouldn't be. I
mean, I agree, I agree with you one hundred and ten percent,
But if you are going to do it, I think there are ways to
set up other WrestleMania matches that aren't like I mean, like you know,
they're going to set up a challenger right exactly. And to me, that's
fine. To me, that's fine. I don't it is fine. But
the fact that we can't have a build for that match from Rumble season on,
that we have to wait, it's so agree. It's like it's just
not befitting WrestleMania. They don't need to do a show in February. It's
it's always a negative. It's always I mean, it's the show is always
so great too, that's always like last year the same. He's ain't incredible,
But it's like because they had Montreal, they had to do Sammy and
he's never gonna come back from that. He's never going to recover from that.
And I'm not sure they would have. It was a great night for
him and I'm glad they did it, especially if you accept the fact that
he's never going to win the belt. You know, And there have been
great February pay per views that the Austin Triple A three Stage, the Hell
Show is a fucking incredible show, Saint Downstaate, Same Down Times, a
Master's incredible show. There's been great. I'm not saying the shows themselves aren't
really great. And again, you know what, like I'll tell you what.
The the first No Way Out also very good in that it did help
build yeah, you know, to it because it was it was the guys
who were all you know, that main event. It was the guys who
were facing each other in that in that massive tag match, and that worked,
it worked, I agree, But if it hadn't happened, you know,
there were so many things that they forced to happen because they have this
fucking show that they have to accommodate, and that don't like the how forced
it feels, I think is what I'm trying to say. I just I
can't imagine how much cool a wrestlemanie would feel if we hadn't seen a pay
per view since Rumble anyway. Yeah, that's that's that's a that's a lost
cause by now I'm pissing into the wind on that one. Remember remember when
when when Kurt Angle beat Triple H for the title shot and they actually changed
the graphic. Yes, I remember that. It took the nuts and then
he fucking took it back the way. We all do better. Yeah,
we all knew better. I know, I know that that trick doesn't work
anymore. They actually changed the graphic. That that's not in their back of
tricks anymore. Yeah. But all this is to say, Patreon dot com
slash lapsed fan for our live calls of w w P l e s and
of course ad free versions of this podcast. You also go dive today early.
Yes, indeed, so it's all It's all worth it. Under the
cinemat for oh yeah EP and above Tier Boss. We mentioned the Rocky three
episode we did a long time ago. We're on episode one hundred now we
are, indeed, well eight hundred eight just happened. We did. Uh,
we did all the marbles, all the marbles, the last one we
did, and uh, it was it was crazy something. You know what
we said it's some probably the best entering action ever seen in a cinematic venture,
absolutely easily and beyond the mat as part of Lapsed Funk. It's yes,
it's always a nice roadhouse. I mean, yes, roadhouse. Ye,
all that stuff it was. It's so much fun to be able to
tie in another aspect, to to certain to certain elements, you know.
Uh and uh yeah we got I'll tell you what. I'm just going to
say this, all right, I want to say this. We there's one
there's one more movie and then we are going on a very very epic cinemat
journey. And that's all I'm going to say. Fair, absolutely fair,
So looking forward to that and so much more on Patreon Wrestle Mamia rocking as
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and you won't be disappointed. You're not gonna be disappointed here either,
boss, because we're going back to eighty one. Yes, wow. Because
if we're going to talk about what it meant that Hull coke and return to
the WWF in eighty forty three, we got to talk about what it meant
that he left. We got to talk about the fact that he's tussling with
Andrea the Giant in March of nineteen eighty one at the Spectrum for the WWF.
Brother it's going all around the horn with Andrea the Giant. As a
matter of course, he also challenged Pedro Morales for the Intercontinental title. I
invite you to consider Hogan going for the IC strap in nineteen eighty one.
Oh wow, right, Andre and Hogan going all over the place in that
year, and has mentioned he also wrestled Bob Backland for the title. On
the circuit. He wrestled Tony Atlas a couple of times to end the run.
This was in April of nineteen eighty one, Landover, Maryland. According
to wrestling data, Tony Atlas defeat Hulkogen in fifteen minutes and thirty seconds and
that was the last WWF match of the run for Terry Bolea April eighteenth,
nineteen eighty one. Wow. And from there he shoots over to New Japan.
As we talked about in the Lapsed Funk, New Japan had the alliance
with the WWF, whereas all Japan had alliances with you know, Vern's Office
and Texas of course, Amilla and the NWA writ large, but a Hulcogan
and a huge beneficiary of the WWF two New Japan connection ichibanas Hogan's on.
We all remember paying off the Pacific, a huge name in that country,
that market, and it's where he befriended and earned the trust and respect of
big time money opponents like Stan Hansen Backland as well. He wrestled with and
against Backland in New Japan and Tony Renok. Of course, a huge breakthrough
for him was winning the inaugural high WGP tournament against Ok. And eighty three.
What a fucking year this guy had in eighty three when you look back
at it, fucking I know seriously, attepted to say eighty four eighty four
because he won the WWF belt and that's fair, but eighty three, man,
he is all over the place Awa New Japan ultimately, because here's the
thing, Like you got to think about it like this, winning the title
in January eighty four, that's that's the that's reaching the mountaintop, that's the
peak. The climb is way more exciting than the peak. Yeah, in
a lot of ways. I mean, you're you're gonna find so many more
people who enjoyed Court Run, you know, and became fans of the run
when Hogan was going hard defending the title for the WWF. But no,
no doubt about it. I mean in terms of like that, but like
in terms of like the the storytelling, in terms of any any journey,
it's it's it's it's never about the destination. It's about what goes on to
get there, and then after that it's all gravy and you're just you know,
reaping the rewards of that. Yeah. When I see Hull Cogain,
this goes back years now, probably before we even started doing the podcast.
When I see Helk Coaguin in his prime, all I can think about is
what about before he was this guy? Yes, I'm like totally interested in
that, and so it's great that we're doing this. Dusty Rhodes. He
also dealt with and worked with in New Japan at this era. So after
that last run, and I'm not sure in eighty one it was necessarily known
it would be his last run. We've told the story on the Rocky the
three under the cinemat for instance of how right, I mean you did the
research that there's basically a disagreement with him and Vince Senior, or the overwhelming
we could just you know, take off months to shoot the movie and the
movie shot in eighty one. Correct, let me think, yeah, I
believe so long, but I have actually actually can we just talked. We
just talked about this too. I remember, well we revisited it as well
as part of the Last Funk right, because you know, not only does
hul Cogan in his first book credit Terry Funk for keeping him on the rails
as far as pursuing a professional wrestling career when he was encountering himself doubt gives
Terry Funk huge credit for that, but also Terry Funk was the one who,
if you believe a certain version of how Hogan came to be cast in
Rocky three, was the conduity they Yeah, so the principal photography began in
May of eighty one, May of eighty one, and just as he could
just speak to how impactful his appearances in that film, I mean not even
asking you historically, I mean just just taking it in. It's it's like,
wow, I can see why this was such a big deal for this
guy. Yeah, I mean, you know, first of all, you
get to take in consideration that here you get Sylvester Stallone who by this point
has established himself over five years to be a massive movie star, you know,
a huge movie star and to and it's really amazing to me. The
the what really makes you you think of Hulk Cogan as being this larger than
life individual. There are two things that come to mind. Number One,
when he gets in the ring and stands next to so Leicster's alone. Now,
now we know Sylvester s alone is not a tall guy, right,
right, He's pretty average high, But on screen everyone looks so massive,
and you know, because of his of his incredible physique at the time,
he looks just unreal. But when Hogan's there and he towers over him,
I mean it is, it's it's almost frightening how huge he is compared to
Sylvester Stallone, because it's just the it's it's unreal. And so you looking
at this giant and you can't help but and you know he does he does
a good job. Hogan. Hogan does a good job in the uh in
the in the movie. But god damn. And there was you remember,
there was an incredible behind the scenes footage of of them, you know that
where you see you see uh, Hogan and Stallone kind of going through their
their stuff, kind of going through their motions at the spot, going work
in the spots and whatever. You know, it's it's unbelieva. It's all
on YouTube. You can take a look at it. And then uh.
The other the other thing that I think about is when Hogan was promoting the
movie and he goes on Carson and he is just again like you're looking at
this this tall freak. If not just whyall for that? He's tall?
You know, you think about it, the guy's but he's six six eight.
He's way taller than someone with his musculator has any business of course,
and you can you can see why he became such a sensation because he's probably
the maybe one of the biggest people you kind of saw in these very very
popular public forums. That's true. Sitting in the barn whatever you call that
chair right next to Jimmy Johnny Carson. Yeah, like I can't think,
I don't know, I don't know how many people saw you know, how
many people of that size were on Carson before that. But when you see
Hogan sit in that chair next to the desk, it's it's it's it's an
awesome sight. Wrestling fans know hul Cogan is huge, but as the baby
face, he was always in serch of an opponent that was even bigger.
Be it John Stubb, be it under the giant be it right? Uh,
you know so many others Crusher Blackwell in the a w A, even
if they're wider, if not taller, King Kong Bundy. You know,
that was the order of the day, Like who can we find that actually
Hogan incredibly sell for and have to make a comeback on. So our sense
of how big Hulk Hogan is his wrestling fans just kind of warped based on
who he shared the ring with. Yes, it's a little more pronounce in
the a w A when he's up against the likes of Nick Bockwinkle and Ken
Petera and David Schelts. These aren't small men, but these aren't men known
primarily for their overwhelming size. And to see Hulk Coogan against Leicester Stallone,
somebody that you know, the way he was portrayed in the first two Rockies
was like this world beater, tough guy, like he was never small in
the first movies. You know, he was never That wasn't the right,
That wasn't the pre eminent characteristic of Rocky in the first two movies, that
he's smaller than his opponents. It didn't even really cross your mind, right,
And so you can see that's about you know, he's got a similar
you know, Carl Weather's Rest in Peace. He uh uh. He was
certainly bulkier. He certainly had a more smaller than they are. But it's
not but but he's like, it's not like this, It's not like this
someone towering over him like he's another species. Yeah, it's it's really it's
it's almost frightening, ya know, how small he is. So Verne's like,
fine, do the movie come through. We'd love to have you and
make a bunch of money. I don't say they you know, I got
the I'm going to talk to Sly and we're gonna see about that. If
vern Ganga ever referred to as the Vester Stallone as Sly, then I'm just
I'm gonna mail it in. At this point, well, we gotta,
you know, sl Stallone, we gotta talk about him. And you know,
I don't mind uh telling you. You know, yeah, that's where
Gane got it from. You know, they're the uh you know, the
reason that he's hiring you is because you're you know, because of the the
what you've done here in the ab A. So I'm gonna have to take
cut of your of your paycheck and you know, and and as well as
any sort of residuals, royalties whatever comes out of that. Uh. You
know, I saw the movie and what a terrific job you did. I
really need to give you kudos, your credit to the business, and we're
really glad to see all the success you're having now in terms of dividends,
in terms of what I'm entitled to in terms of founders. Now, I
want to give you all the kudos you know, and all the u I
want to give you all the credit in the world for an incredible performance and
really bring into light. You know our business and uh and and what we're
doing for the sport. Now, what you're going to give me is a
cut of your earnings, because that is you know, that's how you got
this job to begin with, because of me, because of Vern Gagny.
Now what you're going to give me a toba a cut of your earnings is
how he puts it, so you know, just there's no room for misinterpretation
there. You got to hand it to the man plane spoken to questionner.
In fact, let me tell you, I think the best way to go
about this and to kind of handle this in the most professional manner is to
actually have your payment come to me and then I will give you your cut.
That's fine, Yeah, I trust the guy to to provision it appropriately.
From there, I will give you your cut of what you earned,
and I will keep my cut of what I've earned. Oh shit, Oh
no, we didn't even plug pro Wrestling teas Pro Wrestling Teas dot Com slash
laps fan Philly shirts up for you when you join us. And how about
I'm here to collect what I've earned. I've arned I read. How did
we not stumble on that one? Oh fuck? Vern takes such a large
percentage. Oh that's where the whole Vern thing started. Life and Death of
a w A imagining the discussion between him and Hulk about putting the A w
A strap on Hulk and uh Vern feeling kind of, uh, you know,
jilted out of not having a piece of all the money Hulk Hogan was
making in Japan and all. But what the title on you? We got
to talk about that. That's what Hogan story is. Oh yeah, Vern
said, if you put the title on you, but you gotta get a
piece of the Japanese earnings. That's what it is. I mean, I
want to see what the uh, you know, what are you? What
are we? What are we doing? We're talking in ninety ten? You
know, consideration so unbelievable that Hogan. When you see that that result Tony
outlass of a Hulkogan, you just think it's nothing, but it's it's it's
back to back losses to Tony Atlas. I'm kind of confused because it says
and wrestling data that both matches against Tony Atlas were April eighteenth, nineteen eighty
one. I don't know how he would have made it, why there'd be
a double shot. Maybe there was, maybe there was, but whatever the
case may be, he's being jobbed out on the way out to somebody,
you know, to Tony Atlas, who you know, was a big star
for them, but was not of the caliber he'd been wrestling prior, right,
And it was basically you know the fuck you that he's talked about like
he didn't. Vince, Vince Senior did not want him to do the movie.
I don't know why exactly, probably because you don't want to give him
the time off, but he didn't want him to do the movie. So
he gave his notice and went and did the movie. And it was the
smartest thing he could have done. And you think about Vince's Vince Humor's playbook.
All right, Hogan, the playbook is there. Hogan leveraged his Rocky
theme to be the top babyface draw on the AWA and help them do record
business for a year. So I'll bring him in and wait a minute,
who is the other guy in Rocky three? Oh yeah, mister t Let's
bring him into What the fuck if it worked for Hogan? This guy the
tea Man. Let's bring in the tea man the team to have the tea
Man in all Covi. And it depends what you mean by tea. I
suppose it's testosterone. I mean no, it's gentlemen. How about the the
oh, the the tea bag? Yeah, how about it? A big
fan of tea bags carry them in your blazer pocket like Dennis Kussinich. Well,
I'm I'm a big fan of tea bagging. So Hogan goes to Japan,
and you know, as we've talked about Laps, Funk and elsewhere,
you can't beat the Japanese paydays in the seventies and eighties. It's just like
a whole different trail, so wild. That's why so many guys once they
made it in Japan, just only to Japan, like Hanson and Brody and
Abbey and stuff is like chic. You couldn't you couldn't beat like the amount
of money you've made for the amount of time you put in two week tour
and you have a month off or two months off, or sometimes you went
just twice a year for tours. So both Vern and Vince Junior were sort
of hard pressed to deprive Hull Cogan that freedom to go collect those pay days
because he's one of the top guys in the whole business in Japan. So
he's making huge money and so you get him going straight to Japan. Well,
actually he makes a he goes to Japan. Then he makes a quick
stop in eighty one down in Florida Champs to Wrestling from Florida where he wrestles
Jerry Lawler in Saint Petersburg and there's a match between Hogan and Lawler. Is
that the one that's on the on that that video cassette of the matches?
You know, Hull Cogan doesn't want you to see. I think that's it.
Yes, I think that's the one because there was this this brief stopover
and the match also comes up if you remember our Black Saturday series of shows
a couple of years ago, right where Olie starts going into a fucking tizzy
because Vince is starting to close in on him, and he starts showing w
wrestlers getting beat on Georgia Champs at wrestling from other territories. He had a
good working relationship with Jerry Lawler in Memphis at the time and Jerry Jarrett,
so he's able to get their tapes and he's showing Lawler beating Hogan on his
television show Wow, and I think that this is the match that allowed him
to do that. But as far as you know, WWF to New Japan,
to the short Florida run that it starts with Vern, Hulk Hogan comes
to Vern Ganya's Awa for the first time in the summer of nineteen eighty one.
August eighth, I think is listed as at least the television debut of
Hogan. And for a very brief period of time, I don't know why,
I don't know who has this answer, but for a brief period of
time, they brought him in as a heel. They were basically replicating the
Purple Cape Hulk Hogan from WWF with Blassi instead of except instead of Freddy Blassie,
it was Johnny Valliant who was on the stick for him Wow. And
after only a couple of weeks they're already shooting an angle where Hulk Cogan is
saving babyfaces from the assaults of the likes of Jerry Blackwell to become, you
know, the top baby face in the territory. Vern was always said to
have seen babyface in Hogan. It's just, you know, the way the
magnetism he evokes from the crowd. But that wasn't before they did shoot this
Awa debut where hold Hogan is standing there saying absolutely nothing. Marle Johnny Valiant
does the talking. You're talking about a man six four eight. You're talking
about a man and body where you're talking about three hundred and forty pounds of
twisted steel and sex appeal. You're talking about Hulk Hogan, the heart throb.
He's a heart throw up blazers, gentlemen, Let's just face it.
You're talking about some of his poetry in motion. You're talking about him man.
He can't wait for the miocracy. But looking every day you're talking about
a guy, that man. It makes you want to say, ooh golly,
miss Molly, ooh body look at him? Look at him? Could
I just borrow his microphone? Once said, Look at loose laticamus dor size?
Look at those laticimus dor size, Look at those mill tarts. Look
at the bicep, look at the trisap. If I could please bother you
for one second, just to turn around one second, introduce yourself to people
physically, take a jump. Look at that man. Look at that man
with the biceps. Look at the biceps. Look at that peck of tarls
sixty two inches last jump. He's got about a twenty four inch bicep sixty
two, his chest sixty four to eight, three hundred and forty pounds.
You're talking about intense. He's intense. He's a feet um, he's a
hard drob, He's unbelievable. He's haul Cogan. Wow, so he's so
annoyed right now. He still got enough hair in his head to part it
at this point. But oh yeah, the weird fucking very uncomfortable with Hogan
with parted hair, the the that kind of weird combover thing that No,
it's not okay now now the royd j'sd very quickly and he's having a hard
time with that. So you have Jimmy Valliant just unbelievable he ends up in
this position. But that that'll tell you they didn't have any faith in Hogan.
Is a promo and Greg Ganya for one, is not shy about saying
that Vern basically brought the Hulk Hogan. We know out of Hulk Hogan in
terms of like, sure, here's how you need to be whacky in over
the top on the stick and is as whack as some of the inn ring
was in Awa. They didn't have the best inn ring necessarily all the time.
Short of Nick Bockwinkle and some others. The promos are really good,
you know, with Gene Oakland holding the stick, Bobby Heenan around, bak
Winkle's a wonderful promo. You know you're going to get good stuff. Crusher,
you know, as fucking crazy as he was and hard to understand,
he was a great promo in his own way. Dick the Bruiser Dusty came
through with Dick Murdoch. Of course, these guys are Jessu Mentoro. They're
laying down kind of the blueprint of how to talk boastfully, how to talk
in a very over the top way in pro wrestling and get over even as
a babyface sometimes and Hogan is coached on how to you know, basically start
doing the Billy Graham rap a little bit. You know a lot of daddies,
you know, things like that, right, and in the beginning,
so little faith in his ability to carry a tune on the microphone. They
got Jimmy Valliant saying all the things he said. He did say twenty four
inch pythons, So we do have twenty four inch pythons references as far back
as nineteen eighty one. I'm not sure if it stretches beyond before that probably
does, even if the pythons weren't twenty four inches quite yet, Yeah right,
maybe he got twenty inch pythons. Maybe eighteen inch pythons, that's worth
noting. So he works against the likes of Crusher, Jerry Blackwell, Vern
Gan vern Ganya, Greg Ganya, Jim Brunzell our contemporaries. And again,
this is that promo you just heard aired according to a watermark I saw on
a tape August of eighty one, But in July of eighty one, he'd
already turned face in terms of live event angles that hadn't aired yet on television.
This is his face turn in the AWA where he was teamed with Brad
Ringins against he. Subsequent to this, he's teamed with Brad Rangons against Jerry
Blackwell and Ray Stevens. The deal being that Brad Ringgins, who of course
is like this perennial, you know, kind of pathetic opening card, babyface
guy. Pathetic is correct, but a guy the fans really you know kind
of love and respect is the mainstay in the in the territory, and the
guy that always kept it clean. He's getting beat down after a match.
And Hogan, who had never helped a baby face in the AWA before,
and that Jimmy Valliant promo tells you to believe was not interested in helping any
babyfaces, suddenly makes the save for the imperialed Brad Ringins. Get him out
of there, Bobby Doc Mallock when they're gonna throw him outside the ring.
Blackwall there's the area, throws them all off. Blackball gone on balling,
got him. I don't any trying to hold it comes to incredible hot com
here's the pop yep. I can go after the waking up. It picks
up peck hard everybody shooting old and picks him up again. He's been to
do yet. Mols not looking a holder back him, hold can wash the
whole Black back him anything, Watch me and it's its god. Back Wall
will come here. I want him. Incredible Holk goes over to take a
look at Brad Ragons. I'll tell you you saw all happen. It all
happened so quick. Hard to stay on top of it. Incredible Hulk Hogan
looking after Brad Reagan's referee out of Rosshia Gettigaus, what's back about him?
Joe Fiorino the other referee in there. Doctor Wall, the commissioned doctor,
comes out the ring side to make sure he's gonna want to check on Brad,
to make sure that he doesn't have some uh injury. Doctor's right there
with him. You're going to take a walk back with him and examined him
in the dressing room. Look at that hulk Hogan sixteen eighty above everybody in
the audience as he goes after Brad. Rogan's time to say what but he
could know they're on All Star Rust leg the the the opening bit there,
I don't know what tron Guard was saying, but it sounded like the most
unbelievable amount of gibberishue that I've ever heard of my life. I'm not sure
that was tron Guard. Roger Kenna'm not sure. Okay, that sounds like
tron guarded man, that's a little bit like him. Yeah, it could
have been. AWA announcers were always notoriously bad. But there's Hogan right slamming
fat guys. It started in maybe one, it started before that, But
that's huge that he comes to the rescue and you hear the announcer point out
that he towers over everybody, unique for a baby face in that way,
and they're they're pointing out all the characteristics that would send hule Comania on a
rocket ship at WWF. You know, he sure they're calling out the characteristics
of the man already that that that would prove to be his calling card.
So that was a big night for Hulk Cogan because he's starting to show that
baby face upside, which really in the United States he'd never had a chance
to really flex anywhere. So that is that is significant in terms of showing
promoters. And I'm sure Vince is watching, you know, the wheels are
turning in his head, of course, and what it could mean. So
we teamed with Brad Ringins against Blackwell and Stevens Rangon's let's say pathetic. He
evoked pathos from the audience. Okay, let's put it that way. It's
such a he's such a dufus. What I want to train so many in
the business, including brock Lesner as a matter of fact, a lot of
Minnesota boys, uh learnt. He's such an oaf. He's such an oath
you know, He's like, I don't know the reason I think of him,
and I immediately picture Roger Clinton, Right, Yeah, I don't know
what that's about. I don't know. So that's short lived summer run in
the Aba to get started in those little angles going on. Then he goes
back to New Japan in August eighty one. October he's back in Aba working
with Jesse Ventura, and this is where the Hulk Coke and Jesse Venturi saga
starts. They start up working together in Aba and making a lot of money
together. He would also go round the circuit to Hulk Cogan and do body
slam challenges against Jerry Blackwell. November. He goes back to Japan in eighty
one and works with Andre. December eighty one, he's back the Awa circuit.
I invite you to consider fucking boss Aba Christmas night shows with Hulk Cogan
on the card. Ah, well, we've seen one. We sure have
Christmas in the territories we once called it, So that happens. He goes
in eighty two when he starts working with like a Bobby Duncan Bobby Heenan's family,
but of Court Heenan's there, someone Vince poached along with Hogan at the
same time, Ken Peterra's also in the same boat. And just to get
a flavor of this time period in the ABA, we've covered it before,
it's appropriate. In this episode we covered again, and we're gonna do it
uniquely because what happens is as the AWA goes and loses all of its talent
and loses its television and no one gives a fuck, they start coming out
with home videos in like nineteen ninety and what they do is, because they
don't have anybody everyone cares about on roster anymore, they start releasing the best
of wrestlers that you know of from AH and they release a hul cogin tape.
What do they call it? Hulk Hogan's Highlights. Okay, oh my
god, it's so depressing. So this is like the best of Hogan before
Vince poached him, right according to what they would select to represent that.
And you can hear the promos that he cut to kind of develop the Hulk
Cogan character before it came to WWF television. You can hear him talk about
Hulkamania before he was ever on New York television, saying those words you of
course hear Gene Oakerland doing his thing to accentuate this new babyface Hulk Cogan.
That would be the exact dynamic that Vince McMahon would import by bringing in Gene
Oakland and having him hold the stick at so many borant moments for Hul Cogan,
not the least of which is being in the locker room at Madison Square
Garden right interviewing Hulk of course, right after he wins the strap for the
first time. And you won't believe, just in a bit of serendipity,
who's actually hosting the AWAVHS release wrapping up all of this. Listen in the
American Wrestling Association, These then the early years about American legend, Oh Hogan.
Bring it on, Bring it on down to the Ulster, because I'm
ready if I declare war. As presidents of the Hawk Commedia Society, I
declare war. I'm Bobby heat and Nick fuck Wickle can pete his whole family
a big bad Bobby Duncan. And you know something mean, Gene love war
and professional wrestling. All is fair. And if I have to take these
twenty fours pythons and choke every bit of breath out of their bodies. I'm
gonna do it. Then I want them by my silent. I want them
by myself. The American Wrestling Association presents the early years of the legend Hank
Hogan. Hello, everybody, I'm her Eric. Over the years, the
American Wrestling Association is developed and trained some of the greatest stars in the sport
of professional wrestlers. Certainly, Hulk Hogan is one of those stars, and
he was with the a W nineteen eighty one through nineteen eighty three. And
in this debut tape, we're gonna have a chance to look back at what
was Hulk Hogan's very first world title match. But before we do that,
let's take a look at an issue that came to a head on November seventh,
nineteen eighty two, when Hulk Hogan teamed up with this man. I
declare war and I'm gonna bring in the heavy artillery. Daddy, I'm bringing
in the heavy artillery. Oh, it's not sound like a w segment.
That Giant's more all right, giant man, Yes, sir, Giant,
You're gonna make him a giant andre, Yes, sir. Now. That
interview was from October of nineteen eighty two, and their comments were directed at
the biggest villains in the sport in the early eighties. Let's drop in on
the Bobby Heenan family, all right, Johnama, there are some other things.
Wait, gotta talk about Bobby Heenan, your man Potera, Nick Bodwinkle,
Big Bad Bobby dot Com openly earlier on this television program following the Mattress
Tonight, hul Cogan has challenged the entire Bobby Heenan family because he's a loser,
that's why. Because he got beat from pulling the post and he got
humiliated embarrassed by the heener One after he had won, before he won the
so called Battle Royal. No, the man was beaten, and that's what
it is. He's whipper him. He's embarrassed, humiliated, tell him and
I'm gonna take accept the last, but I don't beat him in the middle
of the ring. Left him like a bleating pig after wants us again.
He's a very sick man. After the bell had sounded and haul Cogan had
been declared the winner of the Battle Royal Bobby, he does an imbecile like
that expects he was in that ring he pulled every dirty tactic in that battle
Royal. He did things I can't even mention, and then he expected us
to handle him with kid gloves. He got exactly what he deserves. As
far as him challenging the Bobby Heenan family, the man better go get some
psychiatric care. Wait a bit, a gentleman, I should point out he
has openly challenged all four of you. Wally Carbo came out and said,
yes, he'd be more than happy to not, but he needs a park,
a better pack. I'll lunch and bring an army baby. The stage
is set. The place is of Saint Paul Civic Center, Saint Paul,
Minnesota. The data is November seventh, nineteen eighty two. Now let's join
twenty thousand fans at ringside the Matches in Progress Company. Yeah, so a
lot there, boss, there's a lot going on there. Oh my god,
so holy shit. Does you have Bischoff kind of genuflecting towards Hulkgan for
the first time on tape? Yeah, yeah, which is an odd you
know, collision of worlds there considering what would happen. But you have you
know, Hogan making alliance with Andre the Giant. Yeah, exactly what was
the precursor to the Wrestlminga three match than befriending each other first. And who's
there to poor Champagne on Hulk Cogan's after he wins the title in MSG.
That's right Andre himself, That's right. I gotta think Vince Junior is watching
this television and gears Attorney don't. I don't have gears. I'm simply create
ideas and I capitalize on them. And I you know, I'm a I'm
I create moments for individuals. It's hard to argue. I suppose is the
best I can say about that, But yeah, it's all building. We
talked a lot about this during our Awa Journey Super Sundays where it all started.
Yeah, Hulk Hogan's missed opportunity after missed opportunity to take the a WA
world title of Nick Bockwinkle. It's what the Minneapolis Saint Paul fans wanted,
It's what the Twin Cities demanded, and it's what Vern just kept dangling in
front of them. And there's all kinds of behind the scenes, as we've
alluded to, it didn't happen. I believe, I believe it's would be
said best by the High Reverend prefer Us or John Coffee, big mistake.
I think it's absolutely correct, and so it is Hogan Backwinkle. This is
the match they put on the Greatest Hits video that they were released in nineteen
ninety to tell the story. And again just so remarkably similar to the Hulk
Cogan we would know in the New York market when he came back. This
is some sound that kind of encapsulates the story they were trying to get across
on the Nick Buckwinkle series. On that ABA tape. However, every man
that stepped into the ring with Halc Hogan, whether it be a partner or
an adversary, benefited by being in the ring with a man who even in
nineteen was a superstar. Now earlier, we told you we were going to
bring you Hulk Hogan's very first World Championship match. Right now, let's get
a mirror. The step forward in his professional wrestling career hasn't taken enough meetings
out in LA not at all. Listen, it's exact same promos. Hungry
looking to my mclauck winkele, I am a People's Champion. Whoa wha whoa
whoa whoa whoa whoa, whoa, whoa whoa whoa Sooner or later problem La
Mania is rather wilder than ever. A match that changed the face of professional
wrestling forever. In the early eighties, the undisputed World Heavyweight Champion was a
wrestling machine. The last of a dynasty comes from Shade. This match marks
the beginning of the end of a millennium in wrestling. Since the beginning of
time, the classic struggle of man against man was determined by a mixture of
strength, cunning, and technique. Haul Cogan was a bodybuilder turned wrestler,
then in time made up for his lack of technique enormous strang and a desire
fed by professional might as well. Might'll call him nineteen eighty two. His
style, Ryan Perl, is about to be changed forever. Let's join Lee
Marshall for the call of the action, the little body of the Brain Heat
and here Chap and Nick Backwinkle in there with a man who could be his
biggest challenge? Could they a man from benef Beach, California, Hold Hogan
into a top ky lot and off they go. It's the match that ends
with help getting his hand raised like he won the belt, and then it
was in a referee interference because he had he grabbed a gimmick that heen and
threw in the ring, clocked Bockwinkle in the head with it, put it
in his waistband, and then they pointed out the bulge in his waistband,
and the refroverse the decision. What kind of a glimpse at how crazy those
fucking fans, Oh yeah, would have gone if he won the strap,
And they went insane that night in nineteen eighty two. But again, definitely
the sour grapes of Hogan not being of the school of verne Gania becoming world
champion caliber even in his own organization. It's like, Vern, you're the
one, like, you're the one that put him in that position. You're
the one that failed to uphold whatever you're trying to have Bischoff kind of throw
shade on right there or whatever. That's what they do. So he's beating
everybody and he's becoming the superman. And he always said, Hogan that you
know this idea that Hull Cogan runs over everybody to stay over. They're just
like the Road Warriors playbook and the Road Warriors. Of course, after a
brief stint in Georgia really were established in the A w A. That was
where Vern allowed them to just run people over, to get as over as
any tag team has ever been in the business. Same formula. For Hogan,
Vern knows, you know, when you put a guy in this position,
he's got to almost never lose. It's no different than what the Crusher
did all those years. You know, Crusher's not using you fucking kidding,
of course. And so I mean all the look, all the greats don't
lose, of course, I mean, that's that's the idea is that,
you know, I mean in that time especially, it's like the reason one's
not losing they come to see you is because you don't lose, right.
And so here's Hogan in a wonderful interview that we're going to servet quite a
bit here in this episode that he did with Chris Jericho's podcast years ago,
that that that heady podcasts. I heard this, I heard this a long
time again. That's a good one. Those early days where every all the
big guys were getting podcasts and signing deals and they had, you know,
because of their stature in the business, they had access to sit down everybody.
So for like three years, Hogan a part of me. Jericho,
Steve Austin, handful of others were just like interviewing anyone who's ever mattered,
who's still alive in great depth. And here's a Jericho sitting with Hogan uh
talking about the mentality that Hogan says Verned Ganya instilled in him around doing jobs
and doing business. And I was real good at even if I beat somebody,
I figured out how to make them better after doing the job. Never
before they rushed me something course again and again and again. And you know,
even like with vern I used to get a ton of heat because I
said, vern let me put this guy over and can drop my way.
Oh you don't have to do that. You can draw money with him anyway.
And I said, I'm going so much heat from the guys. But
that's the way Verne was, That's the way events was. You know,
it was like for the first three four years, you know, you gotta
stay strong, done it a lost basically, I ain't no, And he
just is getting to the point where, man if I could just have somebody
put their foot on the rope, even if I can't do it. Cleveton
in the middle just put their foot on the rope. If the place would
sell out the next time, Oh, it's gonna sell anyway. Evince was
right, and he really was. See he would. He didn't want to
go over. It was Vincent Siske telling me to go over to you.
What a U souls to do? Well? Yeah, Vince was right.
Like people at Hulkamania era, it wasn't hardly ever about Hulk Hogan getting revenge
that you bought a ticket. It was to see the Hull Cogan show,
right, just to see him come and dispatch another foe, which was not
a unique Hogan psychology. That was the psychology of Bruno all the way through,
of course, defeat the Heldajore. So it was it was a typical
playbook. But for Hogan, apparently it was something that he was running into
resistance from the guys in the locker room that as much as he big league
them, always always thought their approval. I think for nothing else than the
old edict of keep your enemies closer, right, of course, But that's
just a insight as to Hogan working with Vern back in the day. So
the match we just heard clips of was February twenty seventh, nineteen eighty two
at the International Ampatheater in Chicago, Hogan versus Bockwinkle. It wasn't quite the
same in the AWA. From there, we reached out to a good friend
of ours out in the Solar System, John, who's been a long time
Twin Cities wrestling fan and it's always offering up AWA insight if we ever need
it. And you better believe the lapsed bat signal went up for this episode
in that van. So an attempt here then to fill in a little bit
Boss of what it was like to take all this in as a fan and
to interpret, as a huge fan of Hulk Hogan and the AWA, what
it meant for him to suddenly, you know, come come in, become
this baby face that everybody was absolutely in love with, and then just watch
him sort of disappear, blind to all of the politics and machinations going on
behind the scenes in the business. So I wish you could share John sentiments
with the Solar System. All right, did long winded answer to your short
question? Sorry about this in advance. Also, my apologies if you've seen
the footage or know the story. I had to reach back in the memory
banks for this question. At the time of Super Sunday nineteen eighty three.
I was seven years old, but I actually have a pretty good recollection of
what happened in my mind. Because the first shock was not Hogan leaving for
Vince. My seven year old mind thought we lost Hulk Hogan before that.
Wow, this would have been the end of Spring of nineteen eighty three.
I don't remember if he said it after Super Sunday or after a house show
run, but Hogan said he would never wrestle for the AWA. Yes again,
yes, I can't find video or audio, but let's assume it was
after he got fucked over by rulings from Stanley Blackburn. Knowing what I know
now, Vern gave his wrestlers the summer off, and I'll assume that Hogan
went to Japan. The Crusher used to pull this same stunt every year,
but I didn't know that then. So Hulk is gone, and I guess
I thought it was for good, and I was fucking pissed. I bought
app mag after after Mag, and I don't recall anything being in there.
I could only get Inside Wrestling and Wrestling Superstars, and neither had a lot
of coverage of the ABA. I remember like It was yesterday when we were
greeted with Gene in the ring and he was flanked by a wrestler that I
didn't know. It was time for a special presentation. Out of nowhere came
Hok Hogan. He he was to accept a special gift from this wrestler,
mister Saiito, and I didn't know why. Hogan made it very clear when
he spoke with Gene that he was still not going to wrestle for the ABA,
but he would take this gift. Saito ends up smashing Hogan with the
trophy, and now Hogan has no chance but to wrestle for the ABA again.
My ass, my ass was ecstatic. Yes, Hogan was back.
Yes. While this was going on, David Schultz also came to the territory
saying he was going to whip Hogan. He is too faces friends Shelton Hogan.
Behind the scenes, Hogan faced Saiito in a match and was kicking his
ass all over the place, when out of know where, Schultz came in
and the two of them gained up on Hogan. So now is Hogan versus
Saiito and Schultz in a handicap match. At the end of September, dare
I say this may very well be the last time Hogan was on a TV
broadcast for the AWA. So now it's October and no Hogan. November and
December go by and still no Hulk. Then I get an Aptor Magan notice
in their top ten rankings that Iron Cheek is now the WWE Champ Wow for
the last two years six years. Actually it was Bob Becklan in that spot.
We do not have access to w programming at this time, so I
really don't understand what just happened. The next month, who shows up as
w W champ brother knew why he wasn't around anymore. By now, I'm
eight years old, and I don't understand. I didn't read the paper and
didn't watch news unless my parents had it on. I do know this KMSPTV
was where we watched all of our AWA. It was an independent station back
then and not a network affiliate. It was the station where I would wake
up and watch Gilligan's Island and reruns of What's Happening in the Monsters. I
would come home from school and watch Little House in the Prairie in a full
hour of Family ties. They didn't air a news broadcast at ten. I
also know that the three the big three networks in town WCCO, CBS,
w KTCN, NBC, and KSTPABC were all in ratings wars all the time,
and news was very serious in our area. There would have been zero
chance that our hero newsman Dave Moore would have ever allowed combat tumbling to be
spoken on his air waves, right me, and I'll be willing to bet
most ABA fans we just thought Hogan went away again for a while because of
an injury from the dastardly duel of Saito and Scheltz. Yes, Verne tried
throwing us a curveball by bringing the Road Warriors in. All of a sudden,
this fucking hack named ken Resnik showed up instead of mean Gene. Thank
god we still have the silky smooth tones of rod tron Guard, even though
he would probably test positive at any given moment from Paotian elephant Trailize, that's
awesome. I'm rod tron Guard, and I just emerged from an elephant sinus.
All right, So so a Saturday, by the way, imagine trot
Guard emerged from an elephant venist. Not so much birth, just sort of
negotiating his way out. Here we go. This is a very long answer
to your question. To my knowledge, there was very little, if any
coverage of Hulk leaving because anyone who did follow wrestling would never write about it.
Those who didn't know anything about wrestling would never say anything about it.
Me, even though this stupid ass lied to my grandpa in the airport and
that airport in Tampa, well, I liked the guy. I was mad,
My friends who watched were mad. My Auntie Joe couldn't believe it.
I had to give them all the bad news because I was the only one
who read the magazines. The number one answer from those I told, what's
WWE? Right? Oh, you're gonna find out really soon? What's that
all about? We were all about to find out in a year or so,
that's right. I can't tell you that when Hull came back to town
for a Vince show and a team with oakerland An, a tag team match
that was covered on the ten PM news. Yes, I remember where I
was, but I can't tell you the date. I was in my dad's
Saint Paul apartment, laying on the carpet, and they showed I think Hogan
body slamming gene on someone for the pin. Fucking keep up the great fucking
work. Wow, fellas well. It's no small part thanks to members of
the Solar system like that who can put us right there. Oh yeah,
what it was like to be that childhood fan and that sense of wonderment at
a time of such seismic change in the business. Just I can't imagine realizing
that. Oh actually, I'm a witness to history here, you know,
yep, that actually would completely transform the business. What I just thought was
this weird aberration one week in my weekly wrestling watching and he Mentionedavid Schultz there,
which is an appropriate time to pull out Dave Schultz book, which of
course is called Don't Call Me Fake right Normal? And they became great friends,
as chronicled in here, Hogan and Schultz on this circuit lived together for
a little while. You know, there were the old story Schultz came out
swinging during the steroids scandal about how he injected Hogan. That was always fun.
But just in terms of Schultz, I mean he would he would book
in the cover of night, just like Hulk did for Vince and he and
that first taping that Hulk works for Vince Junior at the chase in Saint Louis.
Schultz is also on the card, so he pulls the caboose along with
him. But to get the uh the first hand account of the time period
that John is writing about here, we turned to Dave Schultz book. Hogan
was the top baby face when I arrived in the AWA. He had already
become a national star thanks to his appearance as thunder Lips and Rocky Three.
He was off on hiatus when I first appeared on TV. Well announcer means
g oakerland Hawk to bring back the Hulk T shirts. On TV, I
established myself as the new baddest man in town, calling out Hogan every opportunity.
Jane was a good guy to work with and one of the easiest Gene
never said no to anyone. He took direction with a yes, sir,
as long as he can get back to the bar in time. Yeah,
exactly, and he did as he was. Asked if Ferne had a suggestion,
he said, yes, sir. If Hogan gave him a direction,
he said, okay, Hulk sounds good. When Vince gave him orders,
Jean said yes, sir, Mister McMahon, I like it. Jeane did
his best to establish me as the red so basically he was a bitch.
Yeah, oh yeah, well the best kind of bitch, someone who's like
a bitch because the alternative is to not have a job. So he's just
like, you know, cruising, just whatever, you know, because he
doesn't care about this fucking shit. He doesn't care. He's so good at
it. He could just do it and get back to the airport bar where
he wants a lot and worried about it. Is kind of my long green
exactly right, and my coffers. Jeane did his best to establish me as
the redneck David Schultz in my early ABA promos, but I was done changing
ring names. It's Doctor D, Baby, I would remind me and Gene
every time he went on TV. Eventually, the name took and Doctor D
finally got his hands on the Hulk. When he made his return, Hogan
had his hands full with both me and Japanese star mister Saido, who ambushed
the champion after Hogan had been presented with a special trophy and a ceremony aired
on TV. When Hogan met Sayoto one on one, I raced and interfere.
Hogan won on disqualification, but it was a hollow victory, as sayto
and I left him bleeding on the mat. Holk took us both in a
handicap match that ended in a disqualification, and when Hogan and I met one
on one, we were both a bloody mess as we headed to the showers.
People who watched us in ABA and WWF woul probably be surprised to know
that Hogan and I were very good friends for about five or six years.
The two of us were inseparable. Not only were we working main events together,
we traveled together, ate together, and worked out together. Hogan night
I shoved needles in his ass, right. I think he gets to that
here, maybe does. Hogan and I helped each other out in a number
of ways. Hogan was living in his van, sleeping in the back when
I met him. Peggy and I gave him a place to crash anytime he
needed, and turn Hogan was the one who taught me how to work out.
I was still a fairly small guy before we met, but helped changed
all that. Yes, indeed, I'm sure he did. I was at
the top of the card in the ABA, working with Hulk Hogan every night.
He was the top aby face and now the top heel. We had
the eyes and ears of the ABA fan base, but we they weren't the
only ones with eyes on us. It was no secret what was going on
in New York. Vince McMahon, senior, owner of the Worldwide Wrestling Federation,
had always respected the authority and sovereignty of the NBA, even if he
didn't follow their every edict. Now, with his son, Vince McMahon Junior
at the Helm, everything had changed. Junior secured a national TV slot on
Cable. He was starting to book shows and other territories not belonging to him.
Even more serious, he was poaching talent from all the territories and everyone
figured it was a matter of time before he'd reached Minnesota. He was on
a course to destroy the territory's, nationalize professional wrestling and turn the WWF into
a worldwide phenomenon. And he did this. Boss. We in the Colosseum
collection, we went through the Hulk Hogan and means Gin Oakland tag match.
Yep, we did at the Auditorium. Unbelievable. Yeah, that's just the
thing. Vince takes your talent, takes your TV and then shows up in
your city with the same talent. It's like the ABA. I'm I'm just
talking about competition, right, It's honest competition. Not trying to put anybody
at a business. I'm I'm just trying want to see. What I'm trying
to do is make them think outside the box, force them to evolve.
Right, What's what's wrong with having a Walgreens and a CVS across from each
other in every street corner in America? Nothing? I agree? One night
before a show, sheltz right, hold the side, I could tell what
Donuts? What's that? Adonis? What what I said? Starbucks and Dunkin
Donuts? Sure? Absolutely, you see i'one complaining about that state of affairs,
do you? Because both companies were able to figure out a way to
carbon Niche to survive just because the people that he took all the talent and
tell and bought the TV time out from underneath and ran their buildings and convinced
their building owners to go with him and not them and not air their shows
and all that. You know, it's not his fault. I mean,
I mean, let me ask you this. Have you ever considered the fact
of loyalty? Right? You know, I mean, obviously. Maybe maybe
the problem is is that you weren't keeping these guys loyal to you. That's
right, that can't be my cross to bear. Before show Sheltz rights,
Hogan pulled me aside I could tell whatever he had to say. It was
big. I'm leaving in a few months for New York, he said,
telling me that Vince had offered him a ton of money to jump ship.
I was excited for my friend, I'm jumping ship brother, but Hogan was
hopeful he wouldn't be going alone, at least not for long. Let's keep
this feud red hot right up until the end, he said. If we
do, it's a sure thing Vince will grab you as well. Hogan and
I uped our game every night, ending our run in Minnesota together with a
bang. Our final battle in the A to B took place Minneapolis, sell
out crowd twenty two thousand, five hundred Wow Wow. Like all promotions in
those days, the Heels were in one locker room and the babyfaces were in
the other. Verne came out and gave me the finish a double juice no
contest, meaning we would both get bloodied up and then without a winner.
He then went over to the baby face locker room to tell Hogan. I
sent word to Hogan that I would gimmick my jacket so he could easily rip
it off. I wanted Hogan to jump me before the bell and ripped the
jacket off me. The ref took the message to Hogan and brought one back
for me. Hogan wanted me to climb the second rope and the ring announcer
introduced me. Then Hogan would attack me on the ropes and suplex me into
the ring. That was all the planning we did before the match. We
called the rest of the match in the ring, and that night we tore
the house down as instructed. We went for about ten minutes and ended the
bloody brawl in a no contest. Mister Sayto raced down at the end interfere
and helped me double team Hogan, who was bleeding like a stuck pig.
I got a little out of hand with my blade, cutting myself during the
match, but the end result was a battle the ADBA fans would never forget.
It was the perfect setup for a rematch, one that would net Vern
Ganya a huge payday. Unfortunately, for Vern, that rematch would not happen
and the AWA. Hogan gave me plenty of notice when his last match with
the ABA would be, but he didn't tell Vern. It was Vince Junior's
idea, not Hogan's to quit without even giving two weeks notice. And with
the kind of money Vince was paying, he had no trouble getting guys like
Hogan to do his bidding. After Hogan worked his last TV taping, I
went out and cut a promo on him. The following week, I told
everyone that Hogan was a coward. He stayed home because he was afraid to
face a real man like me. Then I really went for the throat.
I want you to show up here next week, Hogan, I said,
I want you to prove you're not a coward. In fact, you know
what, if you show up next week, I'll leave. I'll pack my
boots and my trunks in my back and I'll leave town. Doctor d will
leave, and you'll never see me again. Verne was beside himself with me,
What are you doing, David? He said, you can't go out
and say things like that. Hogan will be back next week. Then what
am I gonna do? I felt bad? Poor Vern had no idea he
found out a few days later Hogan didn't show up, and I didn't have
to back up my vow to leave town. We'll see about the whole Hogan
never told vern thing as we go. We'll see about that. It wasn't
too you think Hogan was willing to admit in nineteen eighty four that he left
Verne high and driving no notice. It wasn't too long after Hogan left for
the WWF that Vince Man called me. Hogan had just won the w fIF
title when I got the call. Vince's longtime former champion, Bob Backlan had
been booked to face the Iron Cheek, but back then was forced to step
aside, giving Hogan the opportunity of a lifetime. Holkamania was born that night,
and Vince needed a top heel to help it grow, and thus the
uh that's the negotiations begin. But time doctor d David Schultz and Vince McMahon,
and he puts some great pictures in his book of him with Hogan.
A sweatered hult Cogan, you know you gotta wear a sweater for ten months
out of the year in Minnesota, hanging out with the fam, hanging out
on holidays, truly tremendous, very funny, and just for a glimpse of
what Vince was offering. He asked what I was making, and I told
him sixteen thousand a month. Schultz said, you'll probably make two hundred thousand
a year here. You will make two hundred thousand dollars a year here,
Vince said, plus a bonus of one hundred and fifty thousand dollars. So
that's the kind of money Vince was thrown around, the kind of promises he
was thrown around to poach talent from all the key areas across the country.
He Awa was just one, as we've established in episodes like a Black Saturday
in the World Class Journey. Ah. Yes, so he's back, is
Hogan? Here we are in eighty two March eighty two to New Japan,
back to a wa and March where a team with Tito Santana who was coming
through Aba briefly before going back to the WWF General Ad on the first time
Hogan cross paths with him as being Russell Lowen was an ABA here at this
point in time eighty two several matches against Nick Bockwinkle. He went back to
New Japan in May of eighty two, came back to the a Toba that
month. He then went back to Japan in the summer to do the New
Japan Summer Fight Series as they called it, including a match against Andre the
Giant one on one which ended in a double count out. September, he's
back to the AWA and Japan, and it's also a point in time where
he's going to start experimenting in Saint Louis. And the reason that that starts
with drugs, well, well, I'm sure with drugs, yes, but
that's not what I meant. And the reason this is now suddenly possible is
on January first, nineteen eighty two, New Year's Day, Sam Mutchnick,
the long time legendary promoter and president of the NWA, retires, and when
he retires, Saint Louis is open, wide open to the hyenas, and
not only does Bob Geigel and Pat O'Connor. Bob guys were running the Central
State's territory Kansas City and that area close in and Pat O'Connor, who is
his booker and as well as a booker for Sam much Nick. At a
time, including when Terry Funk came through in the seventies and Harley Race get
involved in taking over Saint Louis, so does verne Gania m and so now
with Vern being in in Saint Louis, so to speak, suddenly Saint Louis
is a place he can start sending his troop as well. And so this
is how the Saint Louis wrestling fans become acquainted with Hulk Hogan way before he
comes in to work the WWF taping in Saint Louis to launch the Red and
Yellow Hulk Cogan WWF run. So he starts working with Andrea and Awa nine
eighty two planning the seeds. You know, Greg Ganya has a story about
how they had the whole idea for the Hogan Andre match before Vince ever executed
it, and that's right, and there's some credibility there. He said there
was a bat of royal one time and they backed into each other, and
just the reaction from the crowd made it abundantly clear that Hogan versus Andre was
something that they would go absolutely nuts to see happen. Really, Yeah,
where he goes too far as he starts to say like we had a deal
with ABC or whatever. He says he has this whole thing about how they
were going to basically do what Hogan Andre did an NBC. That's always That's
great Guanas thing is he sees something that succeeded. He always did it first,
right. He post dates things he was involved in as if it was
the natural first instance of that idea, Like he LIKEZWO hit it. He
was like, yeah, we were gonna do the nWo when a w A
was going to invade w CW when I was there in nineteen ninety one.
Fat fucking chance that come off anyway. Oh yeah, we're gonna be fine.
You know, why had the idea. I'm just sitting here looking like
Jim Belushi. I think I had the idea. I had any idea before.
Anyway, I had a da before my dad did. Huh. He
calls his dad Vern on every reference. Yeah, of course he does.
Of course he does. He has you know, damn Well, listen,
you can't call me dad. Who whoaa, Greg whoa whoa? He has
whoa? Hey, Hey, hey let's tell you what, tell you what.
Let's dial this thing back in a little bit. Oh we got that
from Vern too. Huh. Promo class well, yet Dalas thing in for
a moment here, you know, let's get this thing back on track.
Huh, hot kid, you don't call me dad, all right? And
you know that listen, you haven't earned the right to call me dad.
Oh you call me mister that's tough, or mister Gagney ever changes the look
on his face, always a smile. Nope, that's right, all right,
Maybe someday you'll learn that. Right, it's a privilege. Actually,
but uh, you don't have a father right now, you have a boss.
And where Greg goes too far? As it was WGN in Chicago,
he says, was gonna like televise it and do basically the precursor to Saturday
Night's Made Event. Okay, so yeah, but Hogan his crossing paths with
Andre and the wa ring you heard from that clip we played from the ABA
VHS released that they were sharing promo time backstage, kind of like a carbon
copy of what we see after he wins the belt in WWF totally. They
go to Denver, where Hogan and Andre as a tag team in November fifth
of nineteen eighty two defeat Nick Bockwinkle Ken, Peterra, Bobby Duncom and Bobby
Heenan in a four on two handicap match, So a lot of cross currents
there with what was to come in WWF November of eighty two, back to
New Japan. That's wild. I always thought that that shit is so fucking
wild to me. It is. They have all this too WWF ohones at
all, and they've released it in spurts, but the fact that it's all
not available in chronological order is an unforgivable sin as far as I'm concerned.
Why why are you fucking Mark? I know, I know, old stuff
doesn't make any money. Great. Meanwhile, look at us YEP. November
eighty two, New Japan. Hogan goes back their teams with Antonio and Oki
in a set up for what would be the ANOK Hogan showdown in the first
IWGP tournament in eighty three. EACHU bond is very much Hogan Son. Back
to Awa for Christmas, Denver Hogan versus Ken peterra on December seventeenth. December
eighteenth at the International Ampatheater in Chicago, Hogan and dickt a bruiser. There's
a powerhouse tag wow against Ken Teron Bobby dunclem Christmas Night, Saint Paul Hogan
versus Jesse Ventura. Thank you put me there God, you know, and
here we are. We thought we never really had that match. I know.
It's because of all the interpersonal issues that emerged from having the matches in
the a WA that they can never get it done in WWF. It's where
they learned to despise each other in some ways. And the night after Christmas,
Boxing Day, if you will, in Milwaukee, Hogan rematches Jesse Ventura
another double count out finish. You gotta imagine everyone wanted a Hogan to go
over, including Hulk himself, and Jesse put up a fit about it.
You gotta imagine that's what happened. Don't think it's time for him to go
over just to the body of Ventura. I mean, I may be governor
someday. Wow, playing that card. So as the calendar turns, it's
the Fateful year of nineteen and to eighty three for Hulk Cogan and it starts
on New Year's sting in San Francisco for the AWA. Don't forget Verne had
already made inroads into a San Francisco expansion years before this, So the idea
that he was gonna you know, piss and moan about Vince doing it to
him is kind of rich. But in Verne's case, he closed in after
Roy Schier threw in the towel and wasn't interested in promoting San Francisco anymore.
So that was kind of That's how those old end Toba promoters justified expanding territorially,
as they'd wait for the incumbent to die or move on. Of course,
whereas Vince is like, I'm not gonna wait for you to die.
I'll just fucking kill you where you stand. I don't believe in waiting for
what I want. Both violate the supposed taboo about territorial expansion, right just
we're just talking about a manner of degree or timing. Even So, a
San Francisco then goes up to Winnipeg, which of course was a mainstay for
ABA as well. A lot of kids who grew up in Winnipeg, Chris
Jericho among them, remember the Awa most fondly, and the aforementioned interview Jericho
did with hul Cogan. He actually gives him a bit of a recollection about
how growing up in Winnipeg he was watching ABA every week and was hooked on
Bockwinkle and Hogan and the rest, and all of a sudden one week,
the channel he always watched AWA on was WWF and that's what is happening here,
And that was case in so many major cities across North America. Has
Vince did his thing, So Winnipego was Hogan and Ken. Peterra goes to
Rockford, Illinois to work. Peterira back in the States January eighth, Green
Bay, Vegas opponents like Ventura and Peteria, Salt Lake City, Denver,
Chicago, Saint Paul, Milwaukee, Oshkosh and that's through the end of January.
Then he bounces back to Japan for what they were calling their New Year
Golden Series and one match he teamed with Antonioki and Tatsumi Fujinami to take on
Chi Choshu Saido and Blackjack Mulligan. So just a small match, Yeah,
he's he's he's rubbing shoulders with the absolute biggest giants of Japanese pro wrestling at
the time. He teamed with Antoniok and Saiito and Killer Khan on January thirty
first, nineteen eighty three and Tokyo and this is where the Saint Louis stuff
starts. Happening as late as it's October. Is it October or is it
August? I think yeah, it's October of nineteen eighty two. He's at
the Czecherdome in Saint Louis is Hulk Coogan. This is pre WWF wrestling Greg
Valentine in a two on one handicap match. Someone else teaming with Greg.
I think it was Tito Santana. I'm not this is te O. That
must not be Tito. I don't think that's a typo. I'm not sure
who it was anyway. Hull Cogan is wrestling in Saint Louis and becoming familiarized
with the Saint Louis public before Vince makes his move, building his TV tapings
out of Saint Louis in the very very beginning. He then comes back in
October twenty second does hul Cogan the key auditorium in Saint Louis, of course
the signature wrestling for a signature building venue for Sam Muchnick's wrestling Hogan. They're
teaming with Dick the Bruiser again, who is also a massive star in Saint
Louis, to defeat Greg Valentine and Dewey Roberts in the future missing link,
so oh wow, oh yeah, So Saint Louis is in the mix.
He continues in Japan in several spurts throughout eighty three as as we've talked about,
teaming mostly with Antonio Aoki in the first half of it. And then
let's see, we're going through February, we're going through March. All the
Awa cities and towns we've mentioned, We've gone through the circuit a few times,
so he circles back to all the towns we've already said. There's this
weird thing with Montreal where I'm not sure what office was aligned with who,
but I say that a lot of weird things with I know where he goes
out there and the shows aren't listed as ABA shows. But he's wrestling like
Andre the Giant in the middle of being a w a wrestler and saying like
Saint Louis. But I'm not sure what promoter had the end. There may
have been a Grand Prix wrestling, I'm not sure. But so he wrestles
Andre the Giant in April of eighty three in Montreal. He comes back and
wrestles Jerry Blackwell in the A W A. He teams with Matt Doctors Sean.
He teams also with great This is huge. April sixteenth, ninet eighty
three, UIC Pavilion, Chicago, Hulk Hogan, greg Gania and Jim's second
birthday. What's that my second birthday? Oh? Is it really? Yeah?
April sixteenth, right, Boss was two when this went down. You
said April sixteenth, right, that's correct, that's right. Hogan, greg
Gania and Jim Brenzel over Ken, peterra, Jesse Ventura and Bobby Heenan.
And you know what's wild about this man? What they played it on All
American Wrestling? Do you remember one of the most electric things of our Black
Saturday coverage playing clips of that first year of All American? Yes? Or
Vince is pitching it to Flare Wrestling in the Mid Atlantic area, yes,
Or he's pitching to Hult Cogan wrestling in the AWA with Greg Gania. Where
he's pitching to Mid South with wrestlers like I think Ted Dibiassi wrestling down there.
This is a Vince Florida with Black bart wrestling down there. Yes,
absolutely, Dallas with Kevin von Eric. I mean this idea that Vince was
like that his first option was to just rampage and pillage this to me,
and we talked about it on Black Saturday. Says that his first mode of
operation was to convince everybody that basically supplying him with their top talent would make
them national stars. He just took over USA cable from Southwestchampionship Wrestling in August
of eighty three, so now he's got a national cable platform on par with
TBS in some ways not as big, but the distribution is there. And
it's like he starts shouting out all these other promotions that he's supposedly trying to
kill, and he is the one he doesn't is Georgia because he was He
was at loggerheads with only from the very beginning, and USA is competing with
TBS, so you know, he's not interested in shouting out Georgia Championship Wrestling
on his air waves at all, of course, but it's just amazing to
hear him say, we now go to the American Wrestling Association where Greg Gania
and Hull Cogan are teaming up to face blah blah blah. That was the
wildest fucking thing. And what's so key is I believe in the third ever
All American Wrestling. He plays a match between Hull Cogan Andre the Giant from
the WWWF days where Andre's the baby face and Hogan is the heel, and
he plays in an An American Wrestling. This is before is spot Backlan's still
champion. This is before anyone had had a notion that Hogan was going to
jump from the AWA. Though you look back at the chronology of how guys
tell the story of when Hogan, who's actually reached out to Probably the same
fucking week that Vince went into studio to lay down the the alternate commentary track
for this match for All American Wrestling, that he knew that he had made
a successful overture to hul Cogan. Here is and we played it before,
We're going to play it again. Vince McMahon making sure to protect Hulk Hogan
in the commentary of a match against Andre the Giant where he comes up short.
But if you're Vince McMahon planning on bringing in hul Cogan and building your
whole operation around him being the world beating babyface, these are probably the kind
of things you'd say, and replaying this match against Andre on All American wrestling.
Oh Man, this has been a really hard hop on his leg.
I kicked it at jest Paul Hoggan, Hawk stupid harp Coggan going put the
map, but clim do pray the Giant. Unbelievable Hogun. I slammed Andre
the Giant in an unprecedented event. Look at Hogan three hundred and twenty pounds
of all muscles, looking up at the muscle, Andrey goes back to work.
Wow, Andre back to it. It goes for another slam, but
no hand right shipped his way a quick count by rough blank a little man,
so I really quit down by rough rank ailla mon soon. Andre the
Giant here before capacity crowd in Madison Square. Garden apparently has an undefeated streak
in Pact. My hand raised in a tuck in a victory, and Hawk
Cogan has nothing to be a shamed of. Indeed, Hawk Cogan could very
well have perhaps defeated, oh my god, the Giant, and he said
now to Wow. Well minutes twenty five second, Joe Winner Ondry had Giant
and again, ladies and gentlemen, I had not been for the questionable count,
very quick count of the then guest referee Guerrilla monsoon. Perhaps you could
see as both individuals were beginning to tire. Perhaps hope Cogan would have brought
the undefeated streak of Andre the Giant to an abrupt halt. And to this
date, certainly Cogan looms on the horizon, is perhaps a tough contender.
Indeed, in the future for Andre the Giant, we'll be back with more
of Andrea's encounters. So much going on there that, I mean, that's
that's unbelieved. What do you hear their boss let him know. I mean,
I hear like, I mean, first of all, you got he's
doing commentary for Hogan Andre. He's talking about undefeated streaks, Hogan almost getting
the victory and potentially you know, and and would happen years later. Like
there's just a lot of almost foresight, as he said, going out of
his way to make excuses for why Holpe came up short. Yes, but
he didn't do for any other matches he voiced over in American Wrestling. No,
and again it's part of a tribute show to Andre. The first episodes
of All American were like personality profiles of a Jimmy Snooka, a Bob Eckland,
and Andre the Giant where it was like an hour of all their best
matches, like mostly archival and here e Vince just has to get into the
booth when they play the Hogan match on the Andre Special and laid down that
track. I just endlessly fascinated in terms of what that tells us about the
timeline. How soon in nineteen eighty three did Vince know we had Hulkchin.
This would indicate as early as September, So that's fucking wild. Meanwhile,
earlier in eighty three, Hogan's working racing against Jerry Blackwell and Ventura and Rockford
and Mad Dog Vshan teaming with him against Ventura and Ken Peterna Cage and Milwaukee.
That's kind of the beat as far as what he's got going on in
the opponents that he's working against. He goes back to Japan in May of
nineteen eighty three and works with Studd and Andre and Anoki and Choshu and Killer
Khan and Saijisaka Gucci and just a Murderer's Row. Really, and this is
the IWGP tournament taking he's wrestling, you know, he faces a Russia Kumura.
He teams with el Kanneck the Mexican wrestling legend. I mean, wow,
he wrestles Otto Vance. I invite you to consider that Hogan versus Vance.
Jesus, It's just amazing some of these matches. How about Antoniook at
Hulk Hogan versus Andre the Giant and El Kanek on May fourteenth, nineteen eighty
three in Numazushizuoka. I mean, that's like for the biggest wrestlers to ever
live right there, Just no one knows it. It's going down on stateside.
Andre Hogan wrestle again May fifteenth, nineteen eighty three in Tokyo. He's
wrestling Killer Connell over the circuit, somebody he would get some good matches out
of when he was WF champion. Just all of these connections being made and
all of these rings being shared in Japan for Hogan. He leaves in May
of nineteen eighty three after beating Killer Khan Are actually wrestling him to a double
count out. And then he works with Big John Studd against Antoniook at a
Kira Mayda, and then he wrestles Anok in the finals of the IWGP torn
And this took place June second, nineteen eighty three. I thought it was
August for some reason, I was mistaken. June second, nineteenty three,
Hulk Hogan defeats Antonio Minoki in the finals of the IWGP tournament to become what
we may consider Boss, the first ever IWGP heavyweight champion. It was Hulk
Hope. It's so bizarre, except that reality it's amazing. One day we'll
do it. Then this is where it comes back and works. Saint Louis.
He does July fifteenth, ninety three at the Kiel, defeating a wrestled
by the name of Korsia Korchenko. He then wrestles July fifteenth of nineteen eighty
three against Crusher Jerry Blackwell at the Kuil Auditorium. He does a quick shot
in Mexico which blew my mind that Hulko and wrestling Mexico in eighty three team
the Granda Martin. I do how many? How many iranas did he do?
I know and that that the record does not indicate. And it comes
back to Saint Louis August fifth. It's him Ron Ritchie Dick the Bruiser against
Crusher Blackwell, black Jack Mulligan and Baron von Rashki and a six man and
now he's back in the WA orbit working in Salt Lake City against Massa Saido
and Ken Petera. Must Sato again several times against Saido. This is the
time period that David Chulz referred to in his book The Comeback Right. So
that's where Hogan was. He went to Saint Louis for a little bit,
and he went to Japan. So that's what John was wondering there on his
living room floor. He worked the key to August twenty six, eighty three
against Crusher. Blackwell won that by count out, went to Chicago and wrestled
Saiedo for the AWA. August twenty seventh, fought Sato again in Saint Paul,
He did Vegas, Denver, San Frian, Milwaukee, Montreal, Saint
Louis again. That was September sixteenth, eighty three against Blackwell Chicago, where
he's defeating David Scheltzon Sayito in a two on one handicap. They bring it
back September eighteenth, where Siito and Cheltz beat Hogan and Jim Burunzell in a
tag team match d No contest there. So that's kind of the pairings for
the tags that goes through September Hogan in September twenty fifth, eighty three in
Saint Paul, Minnesota, defeats Sayuto and Schultz Vita's qualification in a two on
one handicap. They bring the match to Vegas. He works Rosemont and this
is a key match here right here, October fourth, nineteen and eighty three,
Yes, roseman Horise in Rose much Gaga, Illinois. Hulk Hogan,
Greg Ganyon, Jim Brenzel, Russell, Jerry Blackwell, Ken peterra and chik
ad Non ol kc the Future General Adnan there and a six man tag.
And in the Chris Jericho podcast, Hogan actually talks about how this this was
the show where WWF photographer Steve Taylor, who shot stills for them for years
and did the magazine coverage and who Hogan got to know and his first run
through New York, suddenly shows up at the Roseman Horiz in this Awa show
with press credentials to photograph the event. And he's got a business card that
he's going to slip to Hulk Hogan and he's got a message for Hulk Cogan.
Someone wants to get in touch with him. Here in October of nineteen
eighty three, ye, how how did you get hooked up with Vancent?
Was it? Did you know? Like it was? Was? The takeover
was coming that quick? Wow for the buyout, I guess because I've been
living in an apartment where the Mall of America is. There used to be
an apartment there called the Versailla Apartments where all the stewardess has lived, and
I was living there. I was single, of course, of course,
yeah, and I just met this girl in California who at the time was
his dating having to be my first wife, Linda, and you know,
it was starting to get serious, but I still was, you know,
party, and I decided to buy this townhouse in Bloomington. Were you making
pretty good money? And yeah, I was doing good. Yeah, I
was doing good. And plus I was one Japan, so I was doing
good. So back in the day, it was good. And so you
know, all of a sudden, I decided to buy this townhouse in Bloomington,
and I bought it from Kathy Gania because she was a real estate agent.
And I mean the data closing, she came dressed to the nines.
I mean, this whole thing was like I'm gonna explode it anyway, I
brought Linda from He just didn't go down well. But in that long story
short, we had been in the house about a month month and a half
when I was at the Rosemont Horizon and I was in a six man tag
and dustin rose my hero was sold out, which it was, Yeah,
it was sold out, crazy and that aw a thing was to a fever
pitch in Minnesota and shot it was very popular. We were rolling, actually
we were getting ready to come into New York. Just wanted to buy TV,
I mean Vernon wanted to buy or he did buy TV time on Channel
nine and a bunch of other things. That whole crew we had, we
were going to come that way. And so out of nowhere, I'm at
the Rosemont Horizon. I'm a six man tag as chic and non okay.
See was she Jerry Blackwell and she Ken Petera against me, Greg and Jim
And right from went to the ring. The curtain opened upstairs, you remember
the rosemanos curtains. The curtain up and he can I get a picture on
it? Steve Tanner, what are you doing here? And the white headband
that said Holster, I'm doing this number. It was on the cover of
the first WF magazine. That picture was taken while I was still on the
aw Steve worked for the w as a photographer. Yes, many things,
but yeah, yeah, So Steve took a picture and he gets here then
swants to call him. I said, Steve, Vince told me I'd never
work again. He goes, no, I'm not senior, junior. So
he gave me the card right trying to decide what to do with the card,
what to do with the card, And that sunday I get back.
There's a story song tell me to shut up, and it was great kidding.
So the Sunday I get back to Minnesota and I'm sitting out at Vern's
pool with me and Vern and Greg and backluncle in, Oh can you this
day and this day? You know you're gonna be an entreprenter? No,
I said, I'm doing there. So they booked me all the main events
all day around the territory with Backlunkle in the cage right for the belt again.
Of a sudden, right at the booking meeting, Oh my god,
we gotta go. We gotta have a meeting. You know where are you
guys going? So jump up and take off in the middle of this meeting
and Balkmom goes, well, I'm going home. I'm sitting there and there's
Kathy Garney there. I'm like, uh, I'm going too. What I
did was, instead of going home, I followed Vernon Gregg to the airport.
And when I went to the airport, I was because the Minnesota airport
was a lot smaller back here. Get in the car and drive. Yeah,
a movie, we have to go through a red light together. No,
I didn't do that. I'll stay behind it. They were, they
don't even watch it. And I follow in the airport and all of a
sudden, the whole Northwest Terminal was you know small back in the day,
was airport like this now And all of a sudden, you know, walking
along and I looked, I kept going and there's Brn and Greg and Thence.
Wow. So I got the hell out of there, zipped back to
my house and uh, all of a sudden, I told Linda, who
just you know, came for California. So I'm gonna call Dents because I
just caught him and Burn and Greg talk on a little more. Wow.
So I called because we're getting ready going to New York and all that other
East Coast right, and Verne was talking, I'm gonna turn the whole thing.
Man. We were we were common We had a crew man, and
so I called Dents and he goes, you know, I'm getting ready to
take the company over from my dad. I don't get this vision, you
know, this is what I want to do. I'm like, oh boy,
yeah, you know, I'm gonna call all the shots and you're gonna
cross all the barriers. You're gonna go into Kansas City and Harley Race and
you're gonna go to the wats Territory. I'm like, somebody's gonna get killed
here and it's probably gonna be me. But I'm the guy. I'll do
it, you know. And then just goes, well, you know you
should come to New York and said, no, you come here. No,
so Vince flew in. I wouldn't go to the airport to pick him
up because I don't want to be seen with him, right, because you
know, I had to hell of the job. And so I said Linter.
She goes, how am I gonna know? He looks like I said,
he's gonna be this guy with his big shoulder pads. I'm probably a
pink or blue or weird green suit, you know. Yeah, and so
I you know, so she spotted me to have cell phones back in the
day, back then. So here they come back to the house, right,
Oh we didn't. It was great to see. So we started talking
about I don't know, seven, eight, nine o'clock at night. Finally
about four or five in the morning we shook hands. A week later,
I locked up that brand new townhouse. I bought Split did something you never
should do in wrestling in the dead of no notice. Not yeah, figured,
yeah, thank you, but no notice. Total cardinal sin. Should
have put Backwinkle over everywhere on the way out, And I did the most
unethical thing you get ever doing the wrestling. Does I just split just walked
out. Yeah, yeah, that's when Verne tried to get the sheet to
break my leg in the garden. You got all that followed him to the
airport and happened to see them meeting, right, which means I heard later
that Vince was trying to buy out. And so I need to concoct a
story where I'm somehow a character in that piece of the drama. Well,
I was there, dude the whole time. Brother, It's like, you
know, I was. I was at the airport and I was like,
hey, you know, something's I said, you know, something's kind of
Fishy's like, something's amiss. They got to go to a meeting. Dude,
Like what am I a meeting? So I so I got him in
my car. Brother, I had you know, I put on a black
fedora boor my sunglasses very incognito, very incognito, or a black leather jacket,
brother, like Marty McFly in Back of the Future, too, very
incognito. So I go there, brother, and I and I and I
saw, you know, this is the thing, brother, what I saw
happened was on you know, it's unprecedent. I saw vernet the check from
Vincent Man. He passed it across the table. Dude passed it across the
table. He takes it and he put in his jacket and he actually so
you know, here we are we're talking about you know, people talk about
how how how Vincent Man killed the Awa. No, brother, I witnessed
it with my own eyes, my hulk eyes. Brother, right, it
was an agreement. Due they were in cahoots together. Brother. Wow.
I was there and I had a walkie talking. I was like telling Linda
I was like, brother, right he hit a walkie talkie? Was he
five years old? I was like, brother, it's going down. I
thought I was going up, Darry. That was my hope with the wedding
coming up and everything. But he fucking I can't. I can't with this
guy. It's like, there's always so much like cloak and dagger. Brother,
And I'll tell you what, dude. The thing about it that was
even more confusing, brother, and it kind of really made me realize kind
of how high this thing was going, dude, and how we're kind of
where everything was coming from. I saw Vinz mick Man give Verne Gagney and
Greg Gagney nuclear codes. How do you know there were nuclear codes? Terry?
What do you know about those? Brother? He's his brother tremendous.
That's when he chooses to say, Brother, I don't blame the man.
So what was the appeal? I mean, you know, he lays it
out there, but what was it that Vince was saying to get the Helcaminierra
started, leading to a January twenty third, nineteen eighty four. I felt
whether it would work or not, I want to go back to New York.
If you're a wrestler. Of course, the biggest you can get is
to wrestle in the garden, you know what I mean, I know the
Garden. Yeah, And so when I went in the Garden, even as
a heel, I get that that vibe, you know, and the Philadelphia
Spectrum and all those that Northeast was Man, that's that's wrestling up there.
That's where the electricity is legendary. Yeah, so I wanted to go back
there. And then the fact that I figured this baby face gimmick out,
and when I saw how I worked in the AWA, there's something about being
in the garden and being in those bigger cities that even if you don't have
that greater match, people still think it's great. I knew if I went
back with this whole Mania gimmick, and what I saw was going on politically
with America against Iran and that whole heated up thing and the Sheik being the
real deal, you know from my ran the real shop, Iran's real bodyguard,
right, and and you know, he had the perfect gimmick. I
knew it was a perfect storm, and I was just betting on it was
going to blow the roof off the place. And you know, thank god.
We had a short match, you know, and it went good and
it just worked, man, you know. And so that's that's why there's
a shift. Brother. What Yeah, I'll say he picked up the Minnesota
ay Sin rough when he was out there. But there's a little shifting story.
First time it was Sheikh was almost the bodyguard for the Shaw, and
now he absolutely was the bodyguard for the Shaw. Why these weird qualifications from
Hulk? I never understand things he chooses to be, you know, I
qualified about I know. So from here on out, we're working with a
double agent Hulk. We're working with the Hulk that clearly knows that Vince is
interested, and it's still working for the AWA. He wrestles in a Battle
Royal at the Rosemunt Horizon. After that fateful night that he just talked about
on October fourth, went to Saint Louis at the Keel and actually, ladies
and gentlemen, I invite you to consider this mm hmm. October eighth,
nineteen eighty three, Keil Auditorium, Saint Louis. Hul Cogan, that is
the aw A Hulk Cogan we've been talking so much about here wrestles Hartley Race
for the NWA World title. What the fuss Benson time thinking about that?
I three months a well four months before he beat Chic in the garden,
He's wrestling Harley for the nw A strap. That's fucking wild. How what
was the what was the what was the result? It says Race beats Hogan
by DQ. Wow, must he used a chair or something. No footage
of the match exists that I've been able to find. Unbelievable. So so
I didn't even know he ever had a shot at the NBA time. I
know, I think this is the only time he ever did. He's talked
about never having one, I think before And do you remember something from the
Star Kid memorial tour about Star k eighty three. Yes, there's a poster
that exists of what to Hogan's on it. Yes, Hogan was going to
be on the first Star Kaid is Well, you know part of the oh,
part of that, you know, new pipeline from Saint Louis, Harley's
in. You know now that uh Verne is in in Saint Louis and sending
his talent there. Suddenly you know they can congeal with the guys that Saint
Louis was sending to Crockett like Harley, and all of a sudden, the
door's open for hul Cogan to go to Crockett. Hul Cogan on the first
Starcade. Hul Cogan wrestling Harley Race in October of eighty three. Ladies and
gentlemen, Mmmm. This is the same time period where Vince sees Harley in
the bathroom and asks him to walk out on Starkate and come here and watch
your battle battle colostly. Yes, we've got a colossal tussle over here,
pal, how can you resist? It works? David Schultz in October he
does a quick john to Florida, then he comes back. He works Kansas
City against Harley again. He actually wrestles Harley twice. He's in October eighty
three. He goes back to Aba. In October fifteenth, Wressel Saiedo wrestles
tag team matches with Brunzell. He wrestles David Schultz and some one on ones,
including Winnipeg, involved in a battle royal in Winnipeg again. Back to
Saint Louis, he wrestles a Crusher Blackwell in a cage. On October twenty
first of eighty three, he does San Francisco at the Cow Palace for a
w A. He does back to Saint Paul in Salt Lake City and Milwaukee.
So this is him just like like I said, double Agent. You
know, he's going events, but he's playing out the string. Here we
go over to November. He's teaming with Ganya and Brunzell against Blackwell, petera,
nel kc in a rematch. He's in Rockford against David Schultz. He's
in Winnipeg teaming with Andre greg and Jim Brunzell to face Schultz, Massa Saido,
Jerry Blackwell, and Ken peterra and an eight man tag Denver, Green
Bay, Salt Lake and he's teaming. On November thirteenth, eighty three,
he teams with Andrew the Giant in the Awa to beat Masasaito, David Shelton,
Jerry Blackwell at three on two. Then it goes back to New Japan
in November and works a lot of the guys we've already been talking about.
Stays there through about to the end of November of nineteen and eighty three that
usually go through into December, so he basically spends that final winter in Japan.
And this brings us back full circle to what we talked about at the
top of the show, which was his December nineteen eighty three marriage to Linda
Right, and the talk right was that he'd just come from a tour of
Japan. This was that tour. He wrestled on the final night of the
tour December tenth, nineteen eighty three, according to Wrestling Data, teaming with
Antonio and Oki and Tatsuma Fujinami to take on Andre the Giant, Bobby Duncan
and Kurt Hennig Ladies and Gentlemen Hogan Hennick Wow eighty three in Japan that early.
I can't handle that. I know, it's fucking ridiculous. So if
we're going to revisit the wedding here quickly, we're going to shed one perspective
that we haven't shared yet. Uh oh. And that was uh oh,
that of I don't know Linda Hogan, brother right. We got to get
the full picture here, brother, she writes. A few months before Terry
and I got married, Vince McMahon Junior and Terry reunited by phone again.
Vince Junior called with an offer we couldn't refuse. Now it's a call no
it's not a Steve Taylor thing, and Vince called him not he called Vince.
He flew out to a condo, Minnesota to talk about a new business
opportunity with this company, the World Wrestling Federation. Terry was really putting his
name on the map in Minnesota as a wrestler to be reckoned with. Then,
with the further exposure from appearing in the Rocky three movie, Terry Starr
was definitely on the rise. There was no doubt that Vince had a keen
sense of business and noticed the attention on the Hulk. He was always ten
steps ahead of the other promoters and a genius when he came to marketing and
television. Vince and his wife Linda would eventually take this business from small.
God, I'm not going to read it. Read it dingy dimly lit.
No name arenas with fifty to one hundred people in the audience. Yeah,
fifty to one hundred if you don't count twenty two thousand, uh like we
just referenced for matri Dave Schultz. But if you don't count all the buildings
that drew ten thousand and above throughout the seventies and eighties, then yes,
he'd be right, No, neighbor, don't. I don't to a billion
dollar multimedia worldwide company. Vince knew that Terry was his golden boy, and
Terry soon became his golden goose by becoming the front man for the WWF.
When Vince first came to Minnesota to meet with Terry, Terry asked me to
pick Vince up at the airport while he showered after a wrestling match. Man.
He wouldn't do that today. Vince was tall power alone. Brother,
I don't down't shower with the god. I didn't mean his shower part.
I meant to have his wife pick up Vince at the airport. Part.
Whoa? I mean, why don't you guys take a direct root home?
Brother? I mean I got the herero I noticed you kind of took the
long way. I thought that was interesting, brother. No, I just
was wondering what's going on? I mean, I just want to you know,
you give him blows. I mean, I've made it clear already here.
You know, just because someone else goes to the airport doesn't mean I'm
not going to the airport too. I mean, I'll tell you you know,
I was behind it the whole time, bro. Reason dude, you
know, you know, for some reason, you know, you had you
know, Vince was driving, the kids are brother, and all of a
sudden, I see your head going up and down on his crotch. What's
up? That's gonna be legendary. That was a It's like surveillance footage,
like from a drone. Right, It's like you hear the the monologue in
the house, Linda, can you go pick up a Vince at the airport?
Yeah, yeah, he's waiting for me. I do his phone call,
but I you know, I don't want to be out there, don't
want anyone to see him with me anyway. All right, Thank thanks Linda,
see honey. So she leaves and we get the shot above the garage.
You see to pull out? You know you hear like that? Yes,
yes, in Minnesota, snow and ice like against the tires. Yeah.
And then she pulls out and then wait twenty seconds and then Hogan's car
pulls out and follows her. He sends her to the airport just to go
find her. He's can just imagine, all right, So I thinking think
of like the shot of it all, you know, like you see you
see you see like the two cars you know, like he's like two cars
back keeping a good eye me. Like you cut to a shot of him
from you know, the point is like from the like the windshield okay,
and like but the way it's lit. You know, you can only see
you see his outline, like because you see car lights in the back.
You know, so he's got a silhouette. But his eyes are lit.
Oh my god, you know his eyes are lit and like your lights kind
of going past him and stuff and wow. Terry asked me to pick Vince
up at the airport while he showered after a match. Vince was tall with
a commanding presence, just like his wrestlers. He's also charismatic with a great
announcer's voice. Vince recognized me instantly. He introduced himself and give me a
big hug. On the way back to the condo, we made conversation.
Fuck you said, great announcers? What the fuck's she talking about? Is
great announcer's voice? It's great announcer's voice. Well, he was a television
announcer for ten years. It's not very good though, He's I don't really
like it, but I guess she did. On the way back to the
condo, we made conversation, which mainly consisted of talking about the old days
working with Terry. When we got to our place, Vince and Terry got
along great. They sat in the living room together for hours. Hard you
know, I'm I'm married to a Linda. Maybe we can swap Linda's because
I'll tell you what. You got those tits from the laft covered out of
the living room while I worked, and I want them. I want to
eat this before texting from the laughs, A got the living room? Oh,
I worked in the kitchen. It was Can you imagine Vince pretending it'll
be like one of the guys in the living room. Let me a beiritory.
Let mean, let me get you know how to celebratory beer? How
you you know? We'll have a bruce? Yeah? What do you like
around here? Yeah? I'll take whatever you're drinking, Lindon, Let me
ask you a question. Do you like dookie? Mm hmm. Are you
a fan of fecal matter? I am. I'm a big fan of fecal
matter. I like it to put it everywhere. I like to put it.
I knew I shouldn't have picked up this book from the laughs coming out
of living room while I work in the kitchen. It was clear they acted
like no time had passed, and they definitely seemed excited by the new plans.
They eventually invited me in a living room to speak with me about their
business ideas. They also wanted to see if I was up for us doing
what Vincent needed us to do. It was clear that there was only going
to be a lot of traveling and matches in different cities, but there were
going to be many photo shoots, interviews, live television, and marketing meetings
in order to put wrestling on the map. It seemed like it was going
to be a constant flow of work with no time off. I thought it
was very impressive, and I also love this fucking belief that that you know,
they're going to put wrestling on the map. Yeah, well, what
are you talking about. All they mean is sell toys. That's all they
mean, right, Yeah, from ancillary licensing, that's it, and buying
other people's TV. I mean, it were It was a brilliant plan and
it worked beautifully, but that's all it was, right, I mean,
it's it's yeah, right, you need to sell toys, so you need
to make characters that sell toys, so you fucking make everyone up a cartoon
character. I get it. It's just licensing. It's you know, it's
not something anybody else was capable of, right, right, because they all
thought they had a sport going. You know, that was the difference,
right, It seemed okay. I thought it was very impressive that Terry considered
my opinion on such an important decision. He really didn't, Linda, I'd
hate to tell you, even though we were not married quite yet, I've
always had an adventures streak in me, and surely it sounded like an adventure
to work with Vince in the WWF. After Terry drove Vince back to the
airport and came home, he looked me in the eye and said, Linda,
do you realize how big this is going to be? Are you ready
to make a run through New York? She would love that shit. Oh
my god. I'd been with Terry in and out of our different wrestling events
for the whole year before we got married, so I was very familiar with
wrestling in the business. I didn't feel strange. It didn't feel strange or
like a stranger to it. I was actually excited about going to New York
because I had heard all about it, but had never been there. For
me to think that I would be living near New York City was like a
crazy dream. I wasn't lonely moving to New York City because I had lived
alone in my own apartment for quite some time and was used to it.
It wasn't scary saying goodbye to my family either, because Terry and I had
traveled all the time. We were always back and forth. The weirdest part
for me was not having to get up every morning to go to a job.
From the time I was fifteen years old, I always worked. It
was strange being taken care of and just hanging out, but I knew Terry
wanted to build a life with me, and I only wanted to keep him
in his business, as he was now the sole bread winner. At that
point. When we were presented with the opportunity to leave Minnesota, I knew
how smart Terry was and how he was a figurehead in his field. He
earned the most money out of all the wrestlers. And when he said it
we would make one more run through New York, I knew it would probably
be more of the same, just more intense. So the idea of long
hours and hard work didn't even roughle me. I was in now that we
were going to be married. We felt that if this was an opportunity to
make more money in a better life for ourselves, than we should do it.
I could also see inside of Terry that he really wanted to make a
go of this. He just wasn't sure if I was ready for what was
to come. But I'm pretty tough and can see myself through just about any
situation that's put in front of me. I was clearly a good support mechanism
for Terry, and I really looked forward to all the new stuff we were
going to experience together in New York. Let's do it, Let's go for
it. I responded, well, it's going to be a lot of work.
How many times we're going to say this over and over again? I
get that. That was the conversation Linda and christ Yeah, understand, brother,
He's got to be a lot of work. Lends, I want you
to say no. That's what I'm trying to get out here. You know
it's not going to be fun. I was hoping to use the is the
reason to break up with you? And you're keep saying yes, And it's
really fucking me up, dude, like I'm what I'm trying to say is
go back to la I go back to California. No, we can do
this. We can do this. Let's go for it. Brother. I
don't want to do it, Dude. I'm tired. Brother. Wow,
I want to fuck other people. Wo Ulka mania. Dude, it's not
Linda Madium. I'm gonna let you know, Linda if we take this ride
together. No promises that I'm not going to show up in a sex tape.
Dude. Listen, brother, I'm telling you right now, Dude,
Linda, I am going to have sex with other women. I will breathlessly
pound another man's way right I was. I was promised brother, so much
by vinsick Man that you don't know about, and I'm going to do it.
Oh as long as I live on gun Club Road. I never imagine
she writes just how much work these guns? Brother, this is gun Road
right here, Dude, I never imagine just how much work actually lay ahead.
Soon after our wedding, we moved his new husband and wife to Stanford,
Connecticut, which wasn't still as the headquarters of Vince's business organization, now
the WAE. When we arrived, we first stayed with our good friends Peggy
and David Schultz. David aka Doctor d was a wrestler who previously worked in
Tennessee. While Terry was busy meet taking meetings and doing photo shoots at the
WAF studios in Stanford, I busied myself with a local real estate agent looking
for a new apartment. It was a bit difficult to find something. Everything
on the East Coast was so old, crowded, or in the middle of
nowhere. In the meantime, Terry and I also stated at Howard Johnson's motor
lodge on the side of the highway in Stamford for six weeks until we moved
in. Terry had been close friends and shouted at Brutust the Barbara Beefcake,
so he brought him into the WAF as well. Brutus ended up coming to
Connecticut and staying with us in our hotel room. To his company and the
crowd due I'm not singing, brother, maybe we can kind of get this
thing going on, dude, you know, we get Lindau lives with us
too. He's here, right, he's a home brother, And so here's
the thing that I really want, Brude out to be here because he's gonna
watch after you when I go out and don't come home for a while.
Right, I need someone to carry my gizz in. I'll tell you,
dude, I would I want I need someone to carry my gizz inmix.
Brother, So you know were we on this page, he says to Linda.
I'll tell you, dude, two's company and three's a crowd. So
I made sure the barber got cut out of our room pretty quickly. I
wasn't trying to come between them, but in a boom, I needed my
privacy with my husband. I had to put up with a lot the laundry,
suitcases, bill's traveling, not really having my own life for friends,
but it was okay. I liked me on the road and hanging with other
gals who were sort of in the same position. It was a time of
change and growth. Everyone in the BIS understood that, and we were all
trying to make it work. At the time, it was just our lifestyle
and I accepted it. Short his wrestling buddies were always around. What they
haven't made those yet, brother, But but I liked the little privacy for
Terry and me. Every once in a while, the fuck I enjoyed being
a support mechanism for him. We were building his career together on the road.
It wasn't what a wrestling wife was supposed to do, it was what
I wanted to do. I just like being his lady. Terry got a
few rare days off and we eventually found a place we could call home together.
It was a three story townhouse at one on one Seaside Avenue in Stamford.
It was brand new, but the other houses in the street rolled and
looked like something out of all in the family. Along with the cold winter
weather, it was a very different lifestyle from what I was used to in
Los Angeles, that's for sure. When we moved into the new townhouse on
Connecticut, I in Connecticut. Sorry, I fixed it up cute and sure
you did. I wanted to make a nice home life for us. I
did it inexpensively and chose to hunt at antique shops for most of the furniture.
I having made a mount curtains with iron on tape as I can't sew
a stitch. I enjoyed fixing up the house and finding new stuff in a
strange town. I tried to host nice parties and was always miscongeniality to Terry's
wrestling buddies who would come to town and usually stay with us instead of in
some crappy hotel. For the most part, I loved fulfilling my wife my
role as wife to Hulk Higan, and when we lived in Connecticut, I
would happily cook for the guys and make any visitors we had welcome. Of
course, there were some minor bumps along the way as I settled in a
newlywed life. The following story tells about one such bump. It was really
hard to find good food on the road, so when the wrestlers came back
home, they appreciated a fresh, healthy meal. Remember, these guys have
to keep a lot of weight on lots of protein foods to build muscle,
like chicken and steak, fresh vegetables and salad. Lennon McMahon had told me
about a great seafood restaurant in Greenwitch, so I drove there and picked up
some fresh raw shrimp. The guy who worked there packed them in ice for
me and put them in the back of my car. I went shopping forgot
about the shrimp, and by the time I got home the ice had melted.
I don't know. You needed to keep shrimp super iced down or it
could go bad. So I cooked all of the shrimp along with some New
York steaks. Terry and Brutus ate the hell out of it. They literally
were licking their fingers. It was so good. That night, they had
arrested each other somewhere up in near Boston, which is driving distance from where
we lived. By the time they drove to the arena and hit the dressing
room, they had started showing symptoms of food poisoning. That night, Terry
and Brutis were locked up in the ring worried about shitting themselves in front of
thousands of wrestling fans. This was an elimination match. Literally, we were
one of the few wrestling couples who actually lived. I sent you, uh
no, I sent you the house. You found the house? Yeah,
or the lot? That's this is where it was. Yeh again coming out
in the morning, grabbing the paper, bathrobe. Yep, hy Terry,
Hey, what's up you got Mike? How's are going? Brother? You
got any chuck full of nuts? Brother? I'm out? Wait? Did
you wait? What what are you? It's like six in the morning.
He's starting with this bullshit already. You can see his braatht Yeah. I
want to tell you something to do. So I'm went up since three in
the morning. H Yeah, all right, I'm telling you I saw this
car go up and down the road. Brother. What's it is? Dude?
Uh? I'm sorry, Terry, diz what do you? Uh?
Yeah, brother, what's the diz? Ah, Terry, I don't,
I don't, I don't. I'm sorry. I don't know what it is
is. Brother. I want to know you saw this car going up and
down, do you, dude? No? No, no, Terry,
I was asleep at three in the morning. You know, I get up
around nowadays to go to go to work. But so you didn't see the
car. No, no, no, no, I'm sorry I didn't see
it. Were you in the car, brother, Terry? I was asleep.
I told you that. Well, brother, that's what you're saying,
dude. But I think you were in the car. I brother, that's
what you're saying, dude, right to his face. I can, I
can, if you want, I can go into my house and bring my
wife out. Brother. So first you're driving up and down the street.
Yeah, I do live here at three in the morning, dude, Terry,
I was a sleep. Brother. You just said you were in the
car driving up and down the street three in the morning. I didn't.
I didn't. Which one is fucking nervous, dude. So were you driving
up and down the street or were you not driving up in down the street?
Because I'm getting nervous right now, brother, because what I'm concerned about
is the safety of my wife and my family. Dude, Terry, I
wasn't. I wasn't. You weren't what Terry? I I wasn't. I
wasn't. Brother, answer the question, dude, were you driving? Brother?
Were you not driving? It so difficult, dude, why are you
Why you keep going back and forth? Brother, I'm not going back.
And it's it's it's early, you know everyone just brother, Yeah, I
was early in the morning, dude. He was three a m. Brother,
Terry. Right now it's six in the morning. I'm trying to go
to work. The Terry, Okay, I want you to remember something.
He comes out of the front door onto the porch, stretches in his bathrobe,
seize his brother. He looks over to whoever the first guy was.
Tim. He's up, brother, You gotta chalk full of nuts. Dude,
all right, it's cool. And he looks over to Mike. Hey,
Mike, what's up? Brother? And then he goes, wait did
you It's like, oh shit, here we go. I mean to look
at his face immediately changes. Just want you know, because here's the thing,
dude, I consider myself to be the kind of unappointed you know,
you know, an unofficial like neighborhood watch. Brother. So my eyes and
my ears are always open, you know, dude. So I just want
to know, you know, you know this isn't you know what I'm doing
right now? Isn't a work? Brother? Isn't it a work? What?
Brother? I'm not shooting on you? Dude? Wait? Are you
holding a gun? Is that? What do you mean? Brother? I'm
not shooting dude. God, that's horrifying. Why would you shoot? Who
would you shoot? WHOA? What's it to you? Mike? What do
you mean? Are you shooting? Dude? Are you shooting on me?
Brother? Answer the question? H Terry, I don't, I don't.
I gotta go to work. Brother. You're working me now, dude?
What's it gonna be? Why is it? Dude? Are you working?
Are you shooting? Brother? Here? I thought we had a good rapport
man, and all of a sudden, you're coming at me, saying you're
driving around the neighborhood at three am, spying on people. And not just
the accusation, not just the accusation that he's spying on people. He prefaces
it by saying, you're coming at me. What do you mean he's coming
at me? He didn't say a word about it. You mean he's coming
at you? You did just slip that in there. You've already admitted,
dude to driving around town at three am, Brother, scaring people, threatening
people. Hogan on the front stoop, bathrobe, slippers, coffee. Everyone
else has a real job. Hogan isn't booked that day, And and he
stands there watching them go to their cars in the morning, one at a
time. Barry, what's up, brother? Where are you going? Dude?
Oh? Going to work? Huh? Interesting? Where do you work
again, dude? He's like constant intel gathering, constant like Barry notices every
day he comes and comes out of his house to go to work. For
some reason, him or Linda Hogan or Linda have an excuse to come outside.
I listen, I gotta get you know, I'm going to titan brother,
so I need you to be outside asking everybody where they're going when they
get in their own cars. Look, I need you to gather intel.
I need you to do recon. Brother. All Right, we're talking about
we get to figure out exactly what's going on in this town. Who do
we trust, who's safe? Brother, exactly who's in on it? It
is before ring cameras. Can you imagine walk out your front door where you're
going, brother, from the him you don't know, you don't know,
Terry at home, Terry in the neighborhood. Essentially, it's right exactly.
I imagine like during during summer, you'd have like a like a beach chair
out on the lawn on days off, and he's fucking, you know,
like a six pack, but he's watching everyone. He's really just gathering gathering
intel. He's like a witness relocation guy. Terry. Aren't you just aren't
you a wrestler? Well, what's it to you, dude? What does
it matter? What I am? What are you right? Answer that question?
Take that? Terry. I gotta go. I gotta go. Yeah,
I'm sure you do. Brother. I'm gonna tell you something, Mike,
I'm not a fan of what just happened. Brother. What happened here,
dude, is you have put my family's life in jeopardy. Brother,
I gotta tell you something, Mike. I'm not a fan of what just
happened right here. Brother, Nothing happened. Nothing happened is just he is
sending this guy to work and shitting a brick about what he did wrong.
I'm gonna tell you something, Mike, this did really good. Boss.
You deserve a lot of credit for this. The way the way you phrased
it. Let me tell you something, Mike. I didn't appreciate what just
happened right here right now, brother, Like what like I'm not gonna do
think about it now right that's like the tone of his voice, Like I
but I want you to know that I noticed what you were trying to get
away with. What a neighbor you know, I'm picturing of the neighbor too,
to be like a shorter version of like Steven Merchant, Yeah, if
not Natal Merchant. And he's just like you know that face that like puppied
out whoa like like you could give me a whole new suite of things to
worry about, brother, I didn't even thought about that, dude. Now,
you're making me all crazy. Now, shit's getting real. Brother.
I just want you to know, Mike, I don't appreciate what just happened
right here. Not cool. Not cool, dude. We were one of
the few wrestling couples who actually lived in Connecticut near the office. Terry's position
within the WWF was demanding. Fans would have him constantly doing television interviews and
photo shoots in between his matches, so living close made sense in the wrestling
business. You never sold your home so and moved to the new territory that
would But you always sold a house. Yeah, you sold out a house.
Big difference. Ye You ever sell a house, Terry's in the mart
in the real estate market in Tampa. You ever sell a house, Terry,
Well, oh yeah, well I just sold one last night. Dude.
In the wrestling business, you never sold your home and moved to the
new territory. That would kind of make you look desperate and show the promoter
that he didn't have to work as hard to make you happy to there you
live there. But with a contract in place, we felt like we could
settle in Connecticut and really give it a go with the WWF. Vince was
planning a big match for January twenty third, nineteen eighty four, between Hulk
Coag and Iron Cheek for the Heavyweight Championship belt in Madison Square Garden in New
York City. We all know how We all know now how the wrestling business
operates, but back then it was extremely covert. I didn't know what was
going to happen that night, and it was never explained to me. There
was incredible hype leading up to the match. Terry was on a whirlwind publicity
tour weeks in advance. Vince and his wife Linda were very thankful that Terry
and I put ourselves on the line and didn't take a honeymoon after our wedding.
We got right down to work without missing a beat. And when I
say we didn't miss a beat, I mean it. Terry was completely dedicated
and totally focused, and I stayed by his side. We traveled so much
together that I didn't care that we missed having a honeymoon. We worked out
drove eight and spent every night together in hotels. It was our way of
life and we did it together. The only thing different was that I never
climbed into the ring that night. Missus McMahon let me sit in the owner's
box with her and not with the rest of the fans like I usually did.
It was clearly a big step up when Hope beat the irone che history
was made. The crowd cheered for fifteen minutes straight. Terry had a lot
of devoted fans and believers. I will never forget that night. I was
very proud of him. Back then, Terry and I were very much a
couple. We were lovers and best friends. We had a great relationship and
rarely fought. He was always excited to see me sitting out in the audience
watching him do his thing. As he got more famous, I was still
sitting on the sidelines, watching it all and rooting him on. And we
continued to do everything together. Terry and I shared it all and did a
lot of laughing in the old days, living life together one day at a
time. Quite a time for Linda, I'll say, and Terry. But
before they hit the garden January twenty third, to pass the torch to the
Hulkster, there would be some business to do in Saint Louis. This is
kind of a forgotten part of Vince's takeover strategy because it was abandoned relatively quickly
in nineteen eighty four, after just about eight months. I think it was
but the Chase Hotel, the Choruson Room in particular, at the Chase jem
was where Saint Louis wrestling fans and for generations were accustomed to watching wrestling at
the Chase. That was your institutional Saturday morning or whenever it aired television show
and it would be on KPLR Channel eleven I think in Saint Louis, and
that was one of the first mainstay television stations that Vince swooped in and offered
more money than the Saint Louis Wrestling office was offering, which was kind of
in shambles when Sam much Nick retired in nineteen eighty one. Anyway, and
kind of up for Grams. Frankly, it was a little less controversial.
I think that he made the Saint Louis move because of that, Okay,
But he took wrestling at the Chase, that's the thing, and he kept
calling it wrestling at the Chase. It's like he bought Wrestling at the Chase
his time slot and then called it World Wrestling Federation Action New on Wow.
He called it wrestling at the Chase and just put his wrestlers in there and
in the montage and the opening all that, and it was him and his
new hire, Gene Okerland, hosting the show. And the Chase Hotel was
you go back enough decades, this was the venue where they'd have wrestling,
where you'd have to sit, you know, informal wear. Everyone was in
shirts and ties, and they would have like dinner service at the tables during
the matches, and it was like an elegant thing. It was goddamn hilarious.
Only in Saint Louis could wrestling be looked at this way in America at
least, And so Vince was moving in on this, you know, mainstay
symbol of the business that he was trying to disrupt, and it was.
It was quite a coupe. And the first set of tapings he did was
December twenty seventh, nineteen eighty three. This was to start airing on New
Year's Day of nineteen eighty four. So, like Linda said, they really
hit the ground running and gave up honey moons and Christmas and all that to
get this going. And on the show, a jobber named Bill Dixon is
in the ring, and all of a sudden his opponent is announced and it's
a new world Miss Master's scheduled for one fall with a ten minute time limit.
The here do things from Stubnville, Ohio, weighing in at two hundred
and fifty pounds, sierr Wait three hundred firm call, terrible hold? Where
how are you, Bicky? I'm all right, oh Hogan, now Lockey,
let's get that power from Menda. Of course the music there, instac
ban from Rocky three and I snder left the incredible Holk survivor. I am
the Tigers tide headlocks right down by Dixon. Thus far, no match far?
Oh Cogan is Hogan? Very you fixed him up and planted to the
cabin? Holy you countering a test? Get to two in bring your journey
tilifere pat. Wow, really impressive. Wait a minute and two seconds.
The incredible hold and this is the guy they just saw Russell Harley a few
months earlier in the same city. Incredible cooked thing. Hello, So the
capacity crowd on hand? Worry, I've so very many friends. Let's take
a look gena what we call just moments ago. Sorry, my ladies and
gentlemen, my guests, at this time, I'm gonna bring a man out
of Fenice Beach, California. The big band you have peta an accent,
something else. They and incredible Hull Cogan p M my work to the eighteen
man Battle Royal thirty thousand dollars that caught of my letter welcome back home.
You know some mean jeans. Every time I come to Saint Louis, I
get welcomed like a baby new arm. And you know something, I came
into Saint Louis sometimes for a couple of days ear to train. I mean,
dude, I've had a psych on mean gene that even you wouldn't believe.
But beyond that, now that I've got my first victory right here in
the w WS, I got my sight set on the eighteen man battle row.
I want to I'm so psyched up. If I was in the ring
right now, I just might what's that whole right over my head? Us?
The whole race? Hi dubbed everybody out because me, Jean, I
got one thing on my mind, my parent. I want up that battle
roy mean gene. I want to be the winner, and then I that
world title shot. If at w WSW something I've trained for all my life.
Wow, the cards sweater of the Battle Royal thirty thousand. Another is
Paul looks to say that will open. You're doing right, Meg, and
that puts me right at the top of the I am the number one contender
of it all around the world and now the w W the cream of the
cross, the best talent. I want to the World Heavyweight title. Meg.
We are off to the races. Yeah, I'll say so. Allow
a little uh, you know, crowd very interesting, like you know,
not a I heard some booze in there. It's you. Yeah, I
heard some jeering. You know. It's a small it's a relatively small crowd.
It's poorly lit right see a lot. It's a cool look as you
can see, like light decorative lighting on the roof and stuff. It's a
cool vibe all together. They get the WWF banner and the Victory magazine banner
hanging on the hard camera far side. But yeah, for the most part,
it's not really like a packed out taping to get a great crowd reaction.
So a boo here and a boo there might really stand out. But
there he is calling for the title right away Day one promo and also talking
about a battle Royal with that it's a reference to is. In addition to
getting the TV slot in Saint Louis, Vince would start running house shows in
Saint Louis right away and the key venues, and so of course this television
being viewed almost exclusively in Saint Louis or being catered towards Saint Louis, they
start advertising their next dates in Saint Louis. And what's wild is during the
commercial breaks you also see the NWA Saint Louis office like the same exact typeface
and the same exact like kind of style spot pushing their shows. So you're
watching wrestling at the Chase with Vince Wild, Yeah, and you're getting advertisements
for the WWF show in the same look and feel as you're getting advertisements for
the NBA Saint Louis office. How did that work? Well? You know,
KP largest because they went with Vince didn't mean they abandoned or foreclosed on
taking advertising from the other group. Now they're still like this idea still in
eighty three that Vince was are looking to work together with people. He was
almost like the the guy who comes into money and everyone is kind of pretending
to be his friend, but when push comes to show, they won't sign
on the dotted line to be his partners because they would much rather because behind
his back, they're not taking him that as seriously as they they tell they
tell him they are, And so yeah, that was that was a big
Vince thing. You watch his documentary and stuff that Wde came out with.
It's like when Vern spurned his offer to buy Aba, that's when it was
war. And it was kind of the same thing with Georgia. You know,
if a Vince buys Georgia, although he kind of hated early before that,
in particular because he was moving in on Ohio. We talked about that
on Black Saturday. But he won't. He would have he would have been
more than happy to keep working with Oli, I think, and he tried
to and then only told him and Linda to go fuck themselves at the TBS.
So yeah, I think Vince probably someone in his mind thought that I
can be you know, I'll be like a British style imperialist, you know,
like I'll take over your country, but it'll be for It'll be for
your own because because I'm bringing a higher level of sophistication than you roube and
makes totals hand exactly. Yeah, it's at New York. Money only talked
about it, and Black Saturday is very clear. Like the people he was
dealing with, the TV stations and the arenas, they were just smitten by
the fact that Vince was from New York and that was something he just couldn't
overcome in terms of making the big two bit TV station owners feel like big
deals and these too big. Remember when you come from New York, you
come from the real rank. You could very easily convince people that you've got,
you know, one hundred million dollars in the bank back in New York
and this is like nothing to write this check when really vinces fucking Robin Peter
to pay Paul still at this point in time. But New York people are
really good at pretending that they're not up against it, you know. So
it's it's tremendous. It's tremendous time in the business, fascinating time. And
so in addition to Hulk Coogan's debut match coming back here in the promo we
just heard, they also do a ringside interview during this episode of Wrestling at
the Chase with the general manager of kpl R Channel eleven. Wow, welcoming
his new conquerors. There is exciting at Saint Louis. This week's special guest
a new era of professional wrestling. Vice President, General manager of KDLR.
Good friend of ours, Very Baker. Very great to be a part of
the gentle eleventh family. Well, it's great b to be here and on
behalf of kpl R TV from Titan Sports and Eugene here to wrestling in Saint
Louis. And I want you to know kpl r's commitment to bringing with Titan
Sports, the world best wrestlers to Saint Louis over the next few years.
And we welcome you in this new association. Well, very, the very
festive luck to you and your fine staff, looking forward to a very long
relationship. It's a new era. It's professional wrestling for the great band.
Jersay, look Suris and thanks very much for con live man the kissing the
mail. That guy must have gone after this, Oh man, what a
time in America were like the owner of a fucking CBS affiliate in like a
top, in like a thirty market could feel like a king, you know.
He of course you could put himself on television and he could insert himself
into the body of the highly strated show they did. And yep, I
meant about no, because you know, the problem, the the the main
difference is is that we're all just we're all like m like we we we
used to be isolated into our own little bubble, right, Yeah, you
know, whether it be our town, the county, the state, whatever,
there was like a tight little bubble. And so you could you could
be the king of that bubble or king or queen of that bubble. Yep.
And you know, be the head of a of a local channel,
an affiliate station and and be you know, you know, someone of note,
but be the gatekeeper, you know, because this is the same channel
on the dial you'd watch the major network shows just during a time of day
where it was up for grabs for local programming. But now it's like,
you know, the world's a different place. And and and there's just not
that it's affiliate's really not. But the short of local news they don't produce
anything, right, they don't produce anything. And also they there's just not
when when when you when when people are talking about the heads of of of
the you know, the networks and movie studios and stuff like the head of
a fucking who gives a shit about the head of a local affiliate channel,
Yeah, who gives a ship? Yeah, they don't really, they don't
really dangle and exposure anymore that you can make any money with because nobody's watching
their channel at the times that they can sell. It's like even I don't
know, I don't know, I don't know what daytime TV is like these
days. There's a whole ecosystem Like growing up, you know, when I
was, you know, in the summertime, and I wouldn't go to school,
like I'd be home with my grandmother and she'd be watching these shows and
like Donna Hue and shit and yeah, like a ton of money be me
in those ads, you know, all days people watch I'm sure people still
do watch that shit like in the daytime, but I don't know. I
think a lot of people just put on like Fox News and CNN. Honestly
they don't. Yeah, well, you know, my dad loves there's What
the fuck is the stupid ass game show prices right now? Is it?
Uh? Is it twenty five words or less? I don't know that one.
Yeah, it's it's some weird ass. It's a day time things.
Yeah, oh yeah, he doesn't miss it. Amazing. It's like,
yeah, he's definitely becoming an old man. Can't miss his fucking shows.
Wild. It's wild that these tapes are out there now and on YouTube and
stuff. Yeah, that only people in one market could have seen when they
happened. Now, to be clear, Vince would put this wrestling at the
Chase show out as sort of like his c syndicated show. So in markets
where he had like three TV slots you have seen this. So it wasn't
exclusively contained to Saint Louis, but that was the whole point of it,
was to take Saint Louis and run it over. And he had all star
wrestling and a championship wrestling which became challenging superstars I believe what were the names
as well, building that syndication network up and then you know, once a
month to beon MSG, once a month to be on Prison Cable, and
Philly for those Spectrum shows. Once every two months or so would be on
Nessen for the Boston Garden shows. I mean, we've talked about how fun
amazing that must have been. I watch that stuff. But we mentioned how
you know, it wasn't like Saint Louis television was closed to everybody but Vince
McMahon. There was another station in town that Bob Geigels group shifted to at
this point in time. And during one of the episodes right around the time
period of this debut of Vince McMahon's version of wrestling at the chase, they
go to Bob Geigel, the NBA president as well during the Black Saturday stuff.
He was on Georgia Championship all the time, speaking on behalf of the
nWay. He has this to say, kind of parroting what we just heard
the KPLR director say to gene Oakerland. Indeed, we have a man who
oversees such controversy, the president of the NWA and local wrestling promoter, Bob
Geigel. I know, Bob, you're really pleased about the situation in Saint
Louis. All the great wrestling fans able to watch a wrestling excitement on Katy
and now the Big Three. Oh, that's right, it's fantastic. There's
a great group of people there. President Bill Vines is a real high class
guy. They have three hours of wrestling a week. They have Wrestling Tender
eleven on Sunday morning and then Saturday night they have two hours of wrestling starting
at ten o'clock to midnight. It's really fabulous, another great station. We're
really happy to be on an outstanding group of people. All right, Bob
Geigel, who is really excited to be on? Katy and l the Big
Three? Oh in Saint Louis, the Big Three, Oh boss, you
know it? Well, that's right, Oh my god, so so pathetic.
They have no idea what's coming now. They're like just about there on
the verge of getting annihilate JOYD completely destroyed. We know that Sam much Knick's
right hand man and running Saint Louis for all those years the Saint Louis Wrestling
Club as it was called at the corporate level was Larry Matisick. He was
their television announcer as well. Yes, talked about in a lot over the
years, including alimitable tragedy because the Von Eric's coming through making their star that
short time period when Fritz was NWA president in the mid to late seventies was
important as well, So we heard from him. You know when Dan Vaughan
Eric him and Fritz beat Harley on that show and to get them over in
Saint Louis. That's Larry Mattison on the call, and Larry kind of was
a man without a country when Sam retired and Geigel Race and O'Connor get together
to buy Saint Louis and Verne comes in, so Mattison kind of tries to
keep Muchnick's ethic alive and starts his own organization with Breuger Brodie and Saint Louis.
It doesn't go very far for very long, and then pretty soon another
key part of the Vince McMahon playbook becomes apparent as he hires away Larry mattisix.
So Vince comes in any Bayser Television, he hires one or two key
people to the operation who have all the relationships with the arenas in the city,
with the television station managers in the city, and really with the fans
in the city and puts them under tight and employee m So that's key to
being able to make the moves that that he did in Saint Louis. It
didn't last terribly long in terms of Mattasik being unofficial WWF payroll, but it
happened at an important time, I think when Vince was still flirting with the
idea that he would stitch together consortium instead of just like WWF everywhere all the
time, that he was interested in keeping alive some of their traditions of each
local market, but just making it WWF under the surface without totally wiping even
the surface appearance, like you know, like I said, changing the name
of wrestling at the chase. He didn't do that. And there was one
other key hire in this regard. That would be someone that Hulk Cogan took
quite seriously and who was very was It was a very quick shortcut route for
Vince McMahon to get influence in key territories, markets and buildings. And we're
going to go back to the Hulk, get an interview with Chris Jericho to
find out exactly who that was here in eighty three. Yeah, the Jedi
and Barnett was there too. Now, what's the Barnet story. Oh the
Barnet store bringing up now, Okay, rolled over the place, but I
got it, I'm under control, that's okay. The Barnett's story was he
was always in the office and whenever you see me instead of calling me.
Oh my god, Sterling, they're just amazing. I can't believe you're still
all your hair, I said, Jim. That's because you're not tall enough
to set the top of my head. Oh my god, sterling. So
the events will be an alice e. Vince follow me down the hole and
hid outside Barnett's door, you know, so come I hey, jim Z,
what's up? Brother? Oh my god, flipping the time, just
another day that I was said, Jim, you know what this fucking Vince.
I'm so tired of Vince's crap. If we could just get rid of
events, you and I could rule the world, Jim with this whole mania
thing, and you're genius and front. Oh my god, that man's signs.
I'm paying my ass. And then Vins would come around the corner an
ass. Yeah, yeah, there's one as I'll never trust you again.
I do it. A week later he'd fall forward together and I have vents
hide outside the door. But Barnett was so much funderscrewed me and Thence she
used to dial laughing, you know, and we just screwed him all the
time. Plus one plus one hundred for that imitation. Oh my god,
sterling, you're so amazing. Oh my sterling, Oh my god, you
are so amazing. It's not even like I'll tell you, hm, I'll
tell you right now that Ben sick Man is a piece of shit. He's
a motherfucker all right now we're talking about you know, Hull Cammania, how
about that? How about hul Kamania and Barnett a mania? Right has a
certain ring to it. Not sure it's a good one, but it has
a ring to it. And I just love his nickname is jim Zy,
Yes, jim Oh my god, yoh, jim Z. Jim is brother,
jim Zy. What are you thinking? Brothers got pot roast on?
Brother? I can get there like a foward's fine, you know, I
can get what's going on jim Z brother walking around the office. I know,
I know. He just fucking hold his head in on jim Barnett's office,
like, what is going on? What's up? Jimmy Bizzle? Brother?
It just wants to talk to his champion. The other day, That's
what they used to say, what Jimmy, What the fuck is Jimmy bizle?
You brother? You're Jimmy bizzl dude, Jimsy bizz. Before we played
all American clip. I had to do it again. You know what else?
If we're going into nineteen eighty four, you know what else I have
to do again? Right, of course, again from an announcers standpoint,
I must say from a fan standpoint, because I consider myself one of the
greatest wrestling fans. Ever, as far as interests in the professional wrestling is
concerned, I see nineteen eighty four as being perhaps the most turbulent year in
professional wrestling. I think that with the recent happenings that we have seen as
of late, it would point toward a direction of a lot of turbulence,
a lot of unusual things happening in professional wrestling, and if it probably opened
the gates for a virtual flood of wrestling talent into the World Wrestling Federation,
the likes of which we have never seen before. I think that many and
many things would point to an indication that, indeed, the possibility of the
turbulence that I mentioned would certainly be forthcoming. Excuse me, one is so
fucked. I don't know what he said, but everyone is so fucked everyone.
That's the kind of like he starts using when he's really going to come
after that? Yeah, Well, I mean, you know, we're talking
about the a very turbulent infrastructure in regards to the presentation and the delivery and
the the inception of professional wrestling and and the the quality of entertainment that we're
trying to provide. And I believe that that we are at a turning point
of the in regards to the the evolving nature of the professional work. Yeah,
right, I mean that's what this is about in a lot of ways.
It's the story of the evolution of the professional world. The party,
the evolving nature, the evolving nature of the professional world, and you know,
corporate structures and infrastructures and and you know, it's ever changing, it's
always moving. We're always you know, creating, uh, you know,
we're always trying to up the and for different demographics of viewership. And it's
an ongoing mission to compete. Yeah, it's really well put. I'm glad.
I'm so glad you did that. You asked before about Hogan saving Backland,
right, Yes, yes, so what we just heard, you know,
him wrestling Bill Dixon and getting the Duke on Wrestling of the Chase and
doing that promo with Gene that came before that was taped on December seventh,
Yeah, December twenty seventh of nineteen eighty three, and aired on January first
of nineteen eighty four. January third of nineteen eighty four. They're back in
Allentown at the ag Hal and you better believe that Bob Backland is in the
ring still WWF champion, well now, coming off losing the WAF Championship to
the Iron Cheek just days prior, and he's under siege. The wild Samoans
are attacking him. Oh yes. The story was that Backland will was expecting
a mystery partner to join him, uh to fight this omens, but back
Then was all by his lonesome for some period of time. When this happens,
back Then out of the ring, apron, you can't blame hi me
bapened Backan does not want to continue to match under these circumstances, and you
can't blame it. Oh back the winter, what's back I'm doing noll No,
I'm at a total loss. While back Then the returning to one of
the locker rooms, and just exactly if he's walking out of I would highlight
doubt. You've gotta be tend you have gotta be kidd me be incredible covid.
Look at god got three hundred pounds because oh I'm uscling that right now?
All that he said, tell him, I'm at the star father,
say fantastic professional of us, sir, And look at this pole. It's
there, God, absolute b sir. Three hundred pounds in there. And
Bob Beckland, Oh my goodness, what a choice, What a choice indeed
for someone to suck it in his corner. Come on, fine, every
last, all right, we're gonna go Bob now quick live. He's they're
counting, Hogan, Hogan. Hold god, let's go now that Geno curling
and the hunk and Bob Beckwan all right, I thank you. Listen,
you don't have to introduce this, not anybody. Everybody knows the honk.
Everybody knows the Holt. He changed his ways. He's a grat man,
he's Tommy. He's not gonna have blast around. I'm gonna get my hand
and give him gun. Laugh. And I thought little I would like to
thank mister Bob Backlan and up for bringing the homester back with it. Said,
this is a different hault Coke and halk Mania already wanted run a wild
just chuck it out. Man just turns me off. Running back. It
just turns me on. And I'm going through the top of the lighters and
everyone of you were bringing the holster back here, Daddy cool comedians running a
while, all right, something bad. I've got to speaks California, the
incredible Hult Cogain. That's a hot comeback. I realize most people in that
building didn't know Hogan was back yet. Wow. I mean they wouldn't have
seen wrestling at the chase on the first and this is the third. So
Hulk Hogan is suddenly showing back up. And uh, you know they've had
reason through the all American teases and stuff to think about Hulk Cogan and consider
him a new and certainly this the buzz would have spread through the magazines that
Hulk Cogan and Hlkamania was running rough shot as a baby face over in the
AWA. But this is their first chance in the place they always tape television
with doctors a Horry and at ringside to witness this new code of pain Hulk
Cogan. And the goal is clear here, right, we got to get
Bob back when the top baby face to endorse Hogan. Yes, they're doing
this forever. That's how the Rock Roman things started at that rumble. When
he came out, Yep raised his hand. So yeah, they went out
of the way to have Backland put words in his mouth about how you know,
Hulks changed his ways because they're worried that people are going to remember the
last time they saw Hulk in WWF he he was a heel. And so
they're hit hammering, hammering that home as soon as he walks through the curtain.
And it's very clear, uh that they're doing this because they are going
to accelerate Hulk Hogan's anointing his WWF champion. This isn't going to be a
slow burn where he, you know, wins over the trust of the fans,
or wins over the trust of a Bob Backland and beats up a bunch
of heels the mission to go fucking get it out, get it fast,
get it fast. So week two, after what we just heard, he
teams up with Bob Backland is Hulk Cogan in a tag team match to face
Mister Fuji and Tiger Chung Lee. And here's the next chapter of this saga.
He tag team stream Commer World Champion Pop Backland and of course the big
Bath from California, the incredible Hulk Hogan. How does the field houk for
you to team up with this brother? You know something? First off,
Meanjean, the reception I got is the first time back in the ww I
felt like a baby new arms. I mean, I had goose bumps running
up and down my body. In whole comedy is already running wild. But
more than that, I've been trained and made personal friends with Bob Dochlan,
the greatest champion of all times. And let me tell you something, the
electricity this man puts off just totally pites me out and win as a team
or as individuals are ready for any challenge. Hond in the corner of my
lane from Venice Beach, California, Queen three, one hundred and two long,
taking a return to this arena after a long I think. Here is
the incredible Paul Hunger partner from Princeton, Minnesota, waiting two hundred and thirty
three pounds. Here is the former World Wrestling Federation Heavyweight Champion Bob Backland.
All right, match a jam pack capacity crowd back team dream somewhat with Bob
Backland and Hope Hogan teaming up Geene Oakland. This is going to be a
great one. Play on the big Holkster. He some of those balls.
Look at this, look at that? Look at first now, Oh,
I can just sense it. Pok the fast this week terribly side. It's
they see something special here. The tie of a man, come boy swift
from the ride. Is he ever thrown to the corner? Logan sets him
up? Hold a right, oh Sam, kind of a clothesline that level
lay thick, come of the body, slam, hold on the laugh gang?
Oh what fucking one? Good three a time? What about that?
Oh? Absolutely sensation. And I said, and look at these fans.
Are they turned on with this team or what? Vince McMahan, Yes,
indeed, without a doubt they are really turned on. We will go now
and get the official time. Are that really turned on? Going on at
the time? Oh my god, fucking man, that's hot. That's a
good start to things. Then total endorsement, And I just love how intentional
they were about like he's back. You know, I always wondered when I
was a kid, before I had access to this stuff, like did you
just show up one week and just start kicking ass? Or were the announcers
like saying this is day one. Like I always wondered, like, did
it only become clear after a little bit of time coming back that they were
going to put the strap on him? Was there a period of where they
were testing it out, you know, being like see how he reacts,
and then it's like, oh, we got to go with this guy.
Now. From day one, they knew the messaging to send, they knew
how to frame him, how to position him visa b backland. It was
pretty incredible for the time. It was just perfect execution all around. And
as we were learning, you know from books and like Linda's book, like
there was a ton of like behind the scenes promises that had to be made
about commitment to the deal to pull this off. Like Man's really wanted a
guy who was full time under his wing, basically his best friend, if
he was going to go this hard with a guy and making this much the
centerpiece of the of the whole operation. So it was really a big centralized
risk, a key man risk, really you know, really focused thing here,
Like if Hogan left after a year came agin, oh, like he
just goes to Crocket because he's pissed off, Like it's a fucking disaster,
you know. So it's it's remarkable that it worked out and had the legs
that it did. As for Backland, he's left holding the pag and he
thinks he's a headliner. You know what, Hogan says, The electricity coming
off this man's body. The bet the greatest of FF champ of all time.
No one makes a sound in Alan Town, and he's talking about himself,
right, No one made a sound towards Bob Backland. But we talked
about this a lot when we covered Backland losing the title Iron Cheek on that
aforementioned Coliseum video collection show. And just to quickly revisit what he says in
his book about this time period, because he pretty much lays it all down
in the book, and I'm not so sure, not so sure he's really
with it cognitively these days to have many more interviews where he's gonna explain the
whole chronology and thought process he went through. But he says Vince Senior approached
him at the December sixth, nineteen eighty three Allan Town tapings for the first
time about switching over the championship, and you know, Backlan accepted it.
He'd never been asked, and all those years he reigned to lose it.
So it's not like, you know, it's not like out here we go
again. It's just okay, I knew this day would come, and this
is the day. It wasn't sure when he showed up to wrestle Iron Chica
No. December twenty seventh, ninete eighty three that this would be the night,
but he said that night as he would want to do. Vin Senior
called both he and Chek together in the bathroom where he always liked to give
wrestlers the finish, and back then had suggested the ending that went down where
Arnold Skouland Backlan's manager throws in the towel while the Bob Backlan is trapped in
the Kempbel clutch. Instead of giving up, the manager gives up for him,
thus allowing him to save perhaps a bit of face and transitioning over the
championship. People in the audience, including Mick Foley on that night Wow completely
stunned the turn of events. As Backlin said his book, for years,
you have the lead role, basking in the cheers of the crowd, living
in the spotlight, and of course enjoying the financial rewards that come with it.
Then, all of a sudden, and largely without warning, the play
closes, the lights go out, and the dream is over. Instead of
being an instantly recognizable face all around the country and in many parts of the
world, you start to fade back into animinity. Instead of receiving a bag
full of fan mail every three weeks, the volume dwindles until eventually the people
stop writing. Mmm. He remembers referee Dick Kroll, who was assigned to
his match with Chic, looking down, seeing the finish, seeing the towel
and calling for the bell, looking incredulously at Scoland because they didn't even let
the referee in on the fact that the match was going to end with the
towel throw. Wow, So this is like the first call for the bell,
ringing the damn bell kind of deal and ane, Yeah, totally.
Before I could draw breath, Arnold skulln was on me and the ring Backlan
writes, massaging my neck and whispering in my ear, Well done, Bobby,
it's okay, you did good. The next day, December twenty seventh,
eighty three, Vince Junior Backlan writes, held a television taping at the
Chase Hotel in Saint Louis, and that's exactly the show we were just talking
about, where Hogan makes his very first appearance upon re signing Backlan Vince Junior
saw the potential of Hogan's marketability and jumped all over it. I had known
Hogan from his prior stint in the Territory. He was young in the business
and very green back then, but Hogan and I had some pretty good matches
in nineteen eighty. I didn't really like what Hogan was doing and what he
was about behind the scenes, but the McMahons had been very good to me,
and I owed them some loyalty in return. The point of the whole
thing was to pair us up and have it be more or less a passing
of the torch for me to him and for me to let my fans know
it was okay to cheer for Hogan and to trust him and to believe in
him. After that, it had all been laid down a tape about two
weeks before the Garden Card saw. He talks in the interim there about how
he still had this belief that he was going to rematch Chic. On January
twenty third eighty four in the Garden. And it's remarkable how long. I
mean, they never really even say on television. They never even say on
television before the Garden show that Backland's out. So people show up at the
Garden that day expecting it to be Backland cheek again, can't lose sight of
that. They wait, so it's advertised as that, and nobody fucking well.
I mean, you know, a card subject to change, that's right,
Yeah, No one's going to complain of what they get in exchange is
ten times better. I think it. It had come out in like the
media and New York and stuff, like in the papers. I take a
quick gander. Actually, that's an interesting point that I had a card card
subject to change. Oh yeah, there's the deal. And you know I
don't. I don't. I don't answer to you. I answer to you
know, the the higher calling of the professional wrestling wisdom, higher calling,
higher power, if you will, even I would agree, I would agree
with about the higher power. There's a higher reality, a higher sense of
duty, right, higher sense of dukie say that's a higher reality. Yeah,
I don't see the papers they got that. Maybe it was in the
program this is what Jerry twentieth right, Jerry twenty third, Yes, all
right, I got it. New York Daily News, Jerry twentieth eighty four.
So this is three days before the Iron Chic makes the first defense of
his World Wrestling Federation heavyweight title in the Garden Monday Night against the Incredible Hulk.
Hogan Wow replaces Bob Backland. This is a small item deep in the
sports section. It's very It's like underneath all the box scores. You can
tell they rushed it into the paper. Hogan replaces Bob Backland, who lost
the title to The Sheik in December. The first baut will go on at
eight pm. Backland hasn't fully recovered from the injured right shoulder he received and
the losing the title. Losing the title against The Chic and companion features the
Magnificent Morocco defends the Intercontinental title against Tito Santana and the rest of the card.
So there it is. That's got to be the first instance of it,
and it's here in the Jersey Journal on January twentieth, So they got
word out and they got into the papers three days ahead of time. There
you go that it was going to be Hogan and wow, it's pretty wild.
So back Then says, after that had been laid down a tape,
about two weeks before the Garden card, Vince Junior approached me and informed me
that, notwithstanding the fact that the Jenerally twenty third, nineteen eighty four card
at Madison Square Garden had been announced as a Chic Backlan rematch for the WWAF
title, that they decided to put Hogan into the main event is my replacement.
At that point, I knew for certain that Hogan was going to be
their next guy. What's interesting is that after he'd learned that, Chic and
Backlan continued to work the circuit and wrestle against each other and rematches around the
horn. Really yeah, so it wasn't It wasn't totally apparent to fans that
watched that went to shows between Chic winning the Belt and Hogan went in the
Belt that Backlan was out of the picture. But yeah, here at,
he says. The official announcement was that I was too injured to wrestle at
the Jeneral twenty third, ninete eighty four Garden show, and then the promo
interviews for the card, Hogan was named as my replacement. See, I
don't think that's accurate. I didn't see a single promo that indicated that he
had replaced, that he was going to a place Backlan. Now did they
cut something and insert it into just something that played in the New York market.
I suppose that's possible, but I don't think so. And I think
that clipping proves it in a way. Yeah, right, Why would you
do that if the TV made it abundantly clear that it was going to be
Hogan. Before I learned that I had been taken out of the match,
I had promised tickets. Backland writes some friends who had helped me organize the
Bob Backland Kids wrestling tournaments out of Long Island. So I went to the
garden to make sure that they got their tickets and could get into the matches.
Because I was injured, I was not scheduled to wrestle on the card.
So once I knew that my friends and the kids had gotten into the
building, I didn't hang around for very long. I didn't stay at the
garden enough to find out what happened. My friends told me later that Hogan
squashed the Sheik in five minutes and that the crowd was into it big time.
Immediately after winning the title, Hogan left with the belt on a two
week tour for New Japan, and I finished up my remaining which roughly coincided
with the time that Hogan was in Japan. Once Hogan returned from Japan with
the belt, however, Vince Junior put me in Mothballs Wow. So we
went away for a couple months. He returned on the March sixth night Needy
four Allentown television tapings, and according to back then, it's at those tapings
and Vince Junior approaches and we've talked about this before and asks him if he'd
be willing to participate in an angle where I became jealous of the fact that
the fans had adopted Hogan as their new hero and forgotten about me, turn
heel and work against Hogan, he said, Vince Junior offering him a very
lucrative contract for a lot of money to become a heel and chase Hogan.
He still has the contract, he wrote in his book. As a matter
of fact, but what do you say, Bob money not much of a
stretch, Pal, I mean, between me and you're right, You're you're
you're a monkey's ass, and I've seen like a prick. I believe that
it's an opportunity for you to act like a monkey's ass and make some fucking
money doing it. Why don't you stop being a bitch? Sign the contract?
Why don't you be a fucking man a TV Sign the contact, turn
and turn heel, He writes, I don't think there were more than a
handful of times in the six months that I continued to wrestle in the WWF
were Hogan and I appeared in the same building. They kept them far apart
from each other and the fans eyes and minds, according to Bob Backland,
and you know, according to the record, the you know where they wrestled
was clear. Back then went against mass Superstar on the circuit after Hogan won
the title, because Hogan had the new Japan tour to go on right away,
he won the belt and bounced. Yes, that's so crazy. Is
the pre arranged you know, the pre arranged dates so remarkable. This position
Bob Backlan found himself in really really wild and he did turn down the heel
turn. And that's pretty much how it ends. It kind of kind of
ignominiously for a Bob Becklam that reigned for so long and drew somebody sellouts,
wrestled so many great opponents that that's how it ended. But it's time to
do business. And Hul Cogan let you know where the company was headed when
he sat down for the Victory Corner interview segment that they used to do and
you know and oh sure cooperation with their magazine. Robb de Board was the
name of the announced guy, the interviewer. And here is a Hogan on
his first Victory Corner, just a couple of weeks after coming back to the
WWF. Thank you very much and welcome to Victory Corner. This week's special
guest in his first appearance on Victory Corner is the incredible Hulk Hogan, a
man who's virtually exploded onto the World Wrestling Federation scene. Hulk, our viewers,
our readers want to hear from you. You know something. I'm having
a hard time to stay in the share for one reason. I am so
psyched about being back to the WWF. The last time I was here,
I was misguided by a man named Freddy Bassi. But I've traveled all around
the world since then, chasing the big One down the world's heavyweight title.
Everybody around here knows the reputation of the Holster. I've traveled far and wide,
internationally known. And the thing is, I have rubbed a lot of
world champions faces in the mass, but the one, the one that I
want more than ever, is a WWF title. That's why I have trained
so hard, training, save la prayers and eight my vitamins every day.
And the thing is, greatness comes of those who wait. I've waited a
long time, and the WWF is ready for the Holster. Hull Comania is
running wild, little dude. And the thing is, I'm so excited,
so anxious that I'm back. I can't wait for my title shot when I
work my way to the top of the ladder and have that champ to climb
in the ring with a WWF champion, the only true champion in the world
today, Holp There's been some changes in the wrestling scene. How are you
gonna deal with that? A lot of changes personal changes. For myself,
I turned myself from a center into the saint. I wanted to be part
of a family, and that family is the people that stand behind the Holster.
You see, there's an energy running wild now, little dude, it's
called hulk Comania. It's something that spurs me on. I've got those people
behind me all the way, and I can't wait for hulch Commedia to run
wild in the WWF. Thank you very much, Holk. Now back to
Ringside, a terrific interviewer. That guy was huh, yeah, he's a
legend. He fucking The electricity is just pulse pulsating. Let me tell you,
I can feel the electricity pump and through but he's um, it's doing
something. And confirm, ladies and gentlemen, we can't confirm electricity. Can
confirm electricity. Well, that's good. We can't confirm, ladies and gentlemen,
electricity is real. I was wondering. I was worried actually that we
weren't going to get that confirmation. But we got it. So the match
happens. We know the date, Anyry twenty third, nineteen eighty four.
Hogan wins the championship. And you've heard Hogan's perspective already on it from his
books and as far as I can tell, they first played the match outside
unless you watched the live Madison Square Garden Network show that day in New York
on the January twenty eighth, nineteen eighty four edition of All Star Wrestling.
They play the match in its entirety and then they insert Vincent Jane like they're
in studio almost but they're pretending to be in the arena with a yellow banner
behind them with headsets on. Yes, you know, breaking down the incredible
outcome we just saw, right, And the show also features Hogan's first promo
I think for an MSG title defense ever. Wow, because now that he's
the champion, someone else had debuted on that card for the WWF by the
name of Paul Orndorff. Well, he had been in WWF in eighty three
for a little while, but I think this was his Madison Square Garden debut,
and they were, you know, purposely trying to position Orn. Dwarf
is especially strong on this card to make you think of him as someone that
could make a run for Hogan when he wins the belt later on the show.
It's quite something to see Paul or Dwarf, Piper, all these Wrestling
Ania one guys on Boss on this on this show. Oh, it's wild.
It's so wild. Everyone's here, and the Hulkster now with the strap
around his waist and the rockets trapped to him, and the WWF has this
to say towards mister Wonderful all right, Indeed, the incredible New World Wrestling
Fighteraction Wait Champion red Ring side Fritch McMahan along with gene Oakerland. That was
a magic moment, was it not, gen Well, I need advice,
Vince mcmatt. As you know, the comment made history of the making.
I believe Guerrilla Mond Soon said it earlier and Madison Square Garden once again the
site to date. January the twenty third, nineteen eighty four had a brand
new World's Heavyweight title holder in the incredible Hulk Cogan. And what a champion,
what a popular champion he is, chin, I believe that's another statement.
It is going to be railing and rocking. Two world title bouts have
been signed already Inner Continental Toddle Defense. It's a rematch the Magnificent Morocco to
be challenged by Mexican Star Team. So that's uh, I guess that's not
the Hogan promo. So that what that is is the week after the title
win, that's how they talked about. So that's the sound of them talking
in studio and let's get Let's get to the email I just sent you.
This is a couple of things. This is very important because the first one
is the Observer. If you open that piece up, this is the Observer
from March of nineteen eighty four, back in the day when Dave only published
monthly. Oh fuck me. And one of the cool things he used to
do was republish articles that it appeared in papers around the country that were about
pro wrestling. It basically reproduced them. And my god, did he find
a piece of history that he put into this thing. If we go down
to page ten, Okay, page ten, we talked about how intentional Hogan
is whenever talking about jumping from Verne to Vince that he gave no notice.
You heard him say to christ Jericho, I did the wrong thing. I
violated the ethic. I didn't do the honors. Left in the middle of
the night, so to speak. But here a columnist out of the Twin
Cities by the name of John Sherman, who wrote for a news outlet out
of out of Minnesota called I had it here somewhere. It's not a news
outlet I've ever heard of, but maybe it was a thing, and he
goes out there on whose suggestion, I don't know, and and he interviews
hul Coogan in the locker room after he beats Iron Chic and it's damaged what
control this was pointed out? I have to give credit to Between the Sheets
they did with Dave Dixon, span and Chris Ellner. They did a terrific
show on their Patreon about the national expansion in early days, going through all
the newsletters, and they pointed this out first time I had heard about it.
John Sherman is sent from the Twin Cities to ask cul Cogan questions.
Who knows who sent him? Because it's damage control. It's him giving hul
Cogan an opportunity to explain to the fans of the Twin Cities, which,
by the way, Vince McMahon is preparing to bring Hogan Enjine oaklandto in short
order, along with Dave schultzon others that he poked poached. I should say,
maybe he poked him too, but he's gonna bring them in and he's
got to keep up relations. There are a lot of fans, according to
Laura, that Vern allowed to think Hulk Cogan was going to show up in
eighty three because he was so pissed that Hogan left. Sure, Sure he
left a sour taste in the mouth of all those fans when Hulk Cogan didn't
show up even though he knew he wasn't going to be there, which of
course is bullshit on Vern's part. But it's getting petty as petty can be.
So the CounterPunch is here, and it really throws a monkey wrench into
the idea Boss that Vince never gave Vern any notice. He certainly wants the
fans of the Twin Cities reading this column by John Sherman to know that he
certainly did tell Vern he was going to leave. It starts there Monday Night
Shit, New York's fabled Monday Night. At New York's fabled Madison Square Garden,
twenty thousand fans roared their approval as incredible Hulk Hogan dismantled the Iron Sheet
to win the Worldwide Wrestling Entertainment Championship belt. Reporters under the new champions dressing
room expecting to find Hogan in the mood for backslapping. Instead, he seemed
to withdraw. He had something else on his mind. This is Christmas night.
I've been going through hell Hulk confided to people today after he had dispatched
other reporters and ever present hangers on, Wally Carbo and Verne Gott. Gagny
new four weeks ahead of time that I had terminated my services in the American
Wrestling Association. Yet they continue to advertise that I would be there on Christmas
Night. Hogan produced a copy of a male gram. When's it dated sent
November twenty seconds. Okay, so that's so much for not telling anybody.
Yeah, the document said Hogan had signed a long term contract with the WWE
and Madison Square Garden. He's in a contract with Madison Square gard Maybe I
don't know, maybe they were involved like promotional. You could be in the
ABA. The Hulk did not have a long term contract. He negotiated every
match with Carbo and Gagney. Know before Thanksgiving, I told Carbo I might
be available on Christmas Night, said the hawks term. But as of November
twenty two, I quit the AWA. Carbo knew that, yet, he
said I would be there as a partner to Brick Martel, Greg Gagney and
Jim Brunzel for an eight man tag match. I want to set the record
straight. Tell it like it is because of what these people did to me.
They used my name to fill the civic center. It was Christmas night,
man, and they took people away from their families since I wasn't there.
Some people think it's my fault. You know, how can it be
my fault When Carbo and Gagney knew a month in advance, I had no
intention of being there. Everywhere I go people stop me and ask me what
happened. Now I'm ready to tell a whole story, Hogan said. It
is trouble with the A w A. He started when when his attempts to
win me a w A World championship from Dick nick Backwinkle were thwarted. I
beat the man three times, but every time Stanley Blackburn, your president of
ABA, and the promoters, found a way to strip me of the belt.
I knew I was in trouble the third time I wrestled the man in
Saint Paul. Just before the match, Bockwinkle turned Stanley Blackburn, who was
seated a ringside, and winked, oh my god, Terry. By the
way, these sound like comments that mister Sherman didn't gather himself, but were
provided to him. I can provide you with a number of comments, quote
John comments and quotes. Yeah, you're seeking You're seeking arofessional promotional comment.
Right? Is it correct for your for your your your your your news enterprise?
Is that We're well? I can tell you right now I have some
written comments down from Hulk Hogan. I beat the man three times, but
every time Stanley Blackburn's he's the president of the AWA, and the promoters found
a way to strip me of the belt. I know. That's like when
Trump would call promoters as John newspaper reporters. Is John Miller pretend to be
his own spokesman? Yeah, amazing. I knew I was in trouble the
third time I wrestled a man in Saint Paul. Just before the match,
Bockwinkle turned to Stanley Blackburn, who was seated at ringside, and winked,
do you need help? Right of that? Down? You're right exactly when
you misslow down. You needed to say it again. I want to make
sure you got the whole thing. Oh my god, it continues in the
next paragraph. There it does, used, used and used, Hogan said.
Promoters in Chicago, San Francisco joined Twin Cities promoters in using his name
to draw fans when all parties knew in fact, Hogan would not be on
the cards at the Civic Center Christmas Night. The promoter should have announced at
the beginning of the card that I wouldn't be there. Instead, they made
the fans sit through the pre lim bouts unsuspecting what was to come. They
waste the people's time and how promoter is capitalized there. Yes, it makes
me think he just like literally typed, like pulled, like copy and pasted
where the equivalent would have been. Yeah. Hogan said his decision to leave
the ABA reflected a desire to face tougher opponents. Already, the WWE gave
him a title match, which he won. He has also been promised matches
with Andrea the Giant and Doctor David show Boltz. I gave Schultz a beating
in Saint Paul and put twenty eight stitches in his head. Now he's running
his mouth in New York saying he can beat me. I will say this,
He's a tough man. Biggest bombshell. The biggest bombshell of the Hogan
interview Kane at the end when he declared he will bring his ww title to
the Twin Cities. As he's seeking revenge on Carbo and Gagney, is he
seeking the destruction of the AWA. The reason I'm calling back, brother,
is that I love the people the Twin Cities. If these people are like
family to me, I want to be a fighting champion in wrestle all over
the world. The Madison Square Garden operation can put me in a major arena
every night, one world champion. Now that Hogan and Backwinkle have both world
hold World championships, Hogan would not be opposed to a winner take all showdown
with the belts on the line, Let's see the true world Who's the true
world champion? People in the ABA are tired of having a champion who has
behind a manager. I've beaten Bockwinkle, Greg Gagney's beating him, Brad Reigins,
Rick Martel, yet he's still considered the champion. Well, what kind
of champion is that? He continued, I swear on this twenty four inch
python. You know I'm coming back to the Twin Cities. This business has
been good to me, and I've had to bust my butt to succeed.
What I cherish most is my love affair with the great fans in the Twin
Cities. This is my home. Amazing, amazing, that's wild. They're
taking time after this huge seismic victory an MSG to counteract like the small time
shots being taken in the Minneapolis Saint Paul market. It just tells you how
much Vince had eyes on using the goodwill of the wrestlers he signed to just
trojan horses way into markets because he needed the fans of Minneapolis Saint Paul to
not think that Hull Coogan left him high and dry by no showing on Christmas
night unbelievable. And to have this, this evidence that he's producing of a
November notification of Wally Carbo that he quit, I mean, I love it,
and then to turn around and say he never told anybody. It's it's
so confusing. Perhaps it was a deal where yeah, he presented them paperwork
saying he quit, and then subsequent to that said something that led them to
believe he took it back, you know, and gave them reason to think
that they could still rightfully promote him. I'm sure they would do it just
to fuck with him anyway, but I just don't know this. Sitting there
and then Hogan going in his own books and saying he never told anybody.
I don't know how that serves Hogan. It makes him look so bad.
This version makes him look good, But the one he tells and is retailled,
right is it's kind of weird why he wants himself to look bad.
I think he just leans into whatever version of the story is catchiest and has
the most intrigue. You know. But this is kind of like prosaic pointing
fingers, you know, the way most people are. That's what I see
here in Helkogan. And again I don't know as I read it. I'm
kind of specious and I'm doubly specisus because Dave and his editor's note section on
the same issue as The Observer makes makes some kind of comment about Sherman,
the author. He said, I should also mention that columnist John Sherman has
as much credibility to me as Bill Apter to take what he writes with several
grains of salt. Nevertheless, the November twenty second date of Hogan's signing with
McMahon could be accurate, as that was when they were both in Japan.
Interesting. Interesting did Hogan sign in the dotted line in Japan. Another interesting
comment was that Hogan was promised matches with, among others, Andre the Giant.
Perhaps will be speculated upon last month about Andre turning heel may may just
take place. Perhaps Sherman just has a vivid imagination establishing a Hogan Andre feud
with Andrea's heel could be the key to McMahon's plans for the note summer because
that match properly developed, Gould draw anywhere. Yeah, there was a lot
of talk in the sheet at the time that Hogan Andre was going to be
the Shay Stadium big time show for the summer of eighty four, the big
outdoor show that four. Wow. Do you hear Vince's commentary on that,
uh you know September eighty three All American Wrestling Hogan. Yeah, you start
to think, yeah, and then it as Greg Gan just talked about it
was planned in the a w A to do that match, and we saw
them Sheriff screen together, we see Hogan and on, oh yeah, we're
gonna do it first. We were going to do it first, you know,
yeah, you know, And actually at that time I was thinking about
having a uh uh you know, a faction come in and take take cryd
to take over, you know I as well as Uh, you don't have
a you know, Hogan and it's part of a tag team that was going
to explode, like all these things I had him going on, We're going
to go We didn't think of first. You know, we actually had planned
a Royal rumble, you know, years before Pat Patterson ever suggested it.
You know, actually I think it was I who suggested it to Paula.
Well, the business is done, uh, and Hogan is now going to
be written up in WWF magazine for the first time as world champion. We've
spent a lot of time looking at those early w WF magazines as part the
Colisseum collection. Yes, yes, indeediting ho Jimmy Snook appeared in the first
cover of what it was called Victory. Sergeant Slaughter still is a heel,
although clearly with designs and making the baby face appearing on the second one.
It wasn't until what issue three, what do you have their boss? You
have it for us? I do have it. It's the says the April
May nine four, Yes, the issue three, And is he on the
cover? He's on the cover with the with the green belt unbelievable. Can
you please share the solar system? How The in house publicity arm of the
WWF, Titan Sports ind aded to frame this historic occasion for its readership.
Hulkamania Wrestling's new era arrives. We want the Hulk, We want the Hulk,
We want the Hulk. The chant rose to an ear splitting crescendo as
the fans awaited the charismatic Hulk Hogan's appears in the ring for the World Wrestling
Federation title confrontation with the obnoxious Iron Chink on Monday night, January twenty third,
ninet eighty four in Madison Square Garden, and the fans weren't disappointed.
The golden haired, bronzed skin California God charged into Okay, charged into the
electrified atmosphere of the garden, and in less than fifteen minutes, Yes,
less than fifteen minutes. Hey, you know, it's not a lie.
It's not a lie. It was less than fifteen minutes. Yeah, I'm
not saying it's a lie. It's just curious. It's Yes, in less
than fifteen minutes, laid claim to the most coveted title in professional wrestling.
The World Wrestling Entertainment Heavyweight Championship. To the Sheikh's credit, it was not
a pushover match, but the incredible Hulkgan would not be daunted either by the
Boston Crab or the quote Boston crab or the devastating quote camel clutch. As
the fans chanted shouted, hulk Amania, hulk Amania. That's not an easy
chance, not at all, not surely, Ulka mania, Holka mania.
Yeah no, no one did that, no chance. The adrenaline burst through
the Hulkster's body and he could not be denied the brass ring, not this
time. The Iron Sheek lay motionless on the mat as the tuxedo clad ring
announcer proclaimed the Hulk as the new champion. The capacity crowd in the main
arena and the approximately five thousand others who witnessed the match via close circuit television
and the adjacent felt for him, leaped to their feet, cheering, whistling,
and screaming. Hogan was euphoric. He nearly wrapped the prize belt around
his waist and neatly, he neatly wrapped the prize belt around his waist and
knowledge the acclaim of the audience from each side of the ring. At one
point, he reached into the crowd for a handmade sign which read Plcomania.
Quickly on the tenants point, I'm glad you said that. So the Kenyan
teal book has the attendance is twenty six thousand, two hundred and ninety two,
including several thousand it Felt Forum. So the Felt Forum numbers aren't broken
out in this instance, but that includes those the month before the night when
sheic beat Backland they did twenty four thousand, five ninety two, which includes
several it felt for him, So two thousand more tickets for Hogan doing it
the month before that November eighty three, Backland versus Mass Superstar, no attendants
listed there. Sometimes the attendants is missing. It's missing through a lot of
eighty three. That's weird. So July eighty three, for instance, is
twenty seven thousand, So okay, that's that's a little better for Steele and
Backland February when he comes back twenty six thousand, twenty six thousand in March,
and this is Backland still Backland Greg Valentine after hoping goes. Then it
drops to twenty two in April for Backland versus Valentine. So hovering around there,
so it stood out twenty six thousands high, so people were gassed for
it, but again not much time for people to buy tickets to see Hogan
do it right right, it's wild. He held that the sign cuts his
hand to his ear, and the crowd responded with the resounding cheer that reverberated
throughout the arena. As the paramedics worked to carry the Sheik from the ring
on a stretcher, he suddenly revived, jumped up, and started swinging madly.
Apparently still dazed, but with the fire of his native spirit, Hogan
grabbed the Sheek once again and decisively evicted him from the ring, But the
look in the Sheikh's eyes as he was assisted to the dressing room left no
doubt that he would return. Under the banner of the Ayatola cope coom coomenikomenes
komenie for Alla and Iran. That's what it says for Allah and Iran.
Again, the fans went wild with enthusiasm. The Hulkster's final gesture before leaving
the ring was a non military two fingered salute to the American flag, which
was hanging over the immense arena, the kind of salute without much ceremony which
denoted true devotion and admiration. The dressing room scene was no less enthusiastic than
the main arena. It was a true celebration, complete with bottles of champagne,
and even Hulk's mom and dad, who had traveled all the way from
their Florida home, were present for the championship. Bout, one of the
Hulkster's best friends, no stranger himself in the squared circle, Andre the Giant,
proceeded to dous Hogan with an entire bottle of California's finest Bubbly. Yes,
it was a complete victory for the Six's eighth Warrior, but his championship
is not accepted with complacency. Take your chances, you pessimists, against the
incredible Hulk Cogan, who enters rings throughout the world with the words quote American
Maid emblazoned on his shirts. Take your chance against America's finest tuned wrestling machine
to appear on the scene in many years. Many may you possess incredible durability
against the heaviest champion in more than twenty years of world wrestling entertainment history.
Hul Cogan doesn't compare to Stanstaisiac, the previous heavyweight champion at three hundred pounds
from Buzzard's Creek, Oregon, instead the Venice Beach, California product. Again,
the Venice Cheach, California product. Well, He's orange has already surpassed.
Quote the man's nine days as WW champion and the stigma of short title
reigns associated with heavier W champions had a nobeculn shell the W title back in
then, and unless the Supreme God, and unless the Supreme God descends upon
the worldless entertainment to rest away the coveted title, then expect Hogan to enjoy
a long, prosperous title. Raise away the booking Huh I say? I'll
say, gees Louise, if you dare, Ask the Chic about Hogan's domination.
Ask the Iranian strong Man about Hogan's in propensity to demolish opponents who venture
to take away his title. Ask the suplex Master about the difficulties of applying
such a maneuver to the supreme athlete in wrestling history. Ask the Iron Cheek
how it felt to feel the thrill of victory and experience the agony of defeat
after only twenty eight days. Question Hogan's authority if you dare, but don't
expect positive replies from those who daringly confronted the Hulkster. Their selfish replies are
unprintable in most cases. Truly, this is the era of Hulk Hogan,
the same person who returned to the world Rosy Entertainment to seek championship status and
whose determination climactically reached fruition after a short time. The Hulkster allied himself with
Bob Macklin immediately after returning from a three year hiatus hiatus h that's one way
to put its fucking crazy umm and he was Backlan's hand picked recommendation to replace
the former champion in the New York title about after the latter was ruled incapable
of returning to action due to a severe neck injury. Uh. Clearly,
Hulk Hogan needed no introduction. The on hand capacity crowd recognized the Hulkster and
rose to a standing ovation upon his entrance. This excitement continued into Madison Square
Garden and has continued wherever Hogan has appeared in w W bouts throughout the world.
Asked the Japanese wrestling public about hul Cogan. He's become a household word
and fan favorite. Seek a few words describe the incredible Hul Cogan from a
Midwest wrestling officionado. Who's this Midwest wrestling officionado? Can you imagine? You
know? He's the toughest wrestler in history and he's simply exciting? Comes the
reply, Oh, John Sherman. Yeah, well, by the way,
I think is still a sports editor in Eden. Wow, where is it?
Fucking Dinah? And I emailed Hidium respond I said, yeah, what
about this? Howary we remember this article? So well? Maybe it doesn't
have a flattering story to tell about how he didn't fucking go to the garden,
didn't nothing. I didn't actually write it. I didn't write it at
all. I wasn't there. Someone someone wrote it for me and turned it
in under my name. Teenagers think he's awesome. Men like his no nonsense,
take charge ring action, and the lady's reactions are wow, so weird.
So oh yeah. After the championship match in Madison Square, Garden,
Hulk granted w W Official magazine this exclusive interview. Hulk, in your opinion,
what has catapult you? Catapulted you to immedia success in w W e
H. That's a complex question and it needs a thorough answer. You know,
first, I have really worked during my three year absence from the w
B to profect my wrestling skills. I'll try to take command the minute I
enter the ring, and I've been very successful with quick combinations of leg drops,
elbow smashes, and body slams. That sounds like something he's the L
E. S. B method. Brother. I've been told that my speed,
because of my size, is very deceptive in the ring. I actually
believe that I overwhelmed some my opponents, but taking all out in consideration,
I'm grateful to Bob Bckland and my close association with him for my chance at
the title. You know, Bob was very supportive during my return, and
I appreciate his belief in me as a worker, as a worthy Oh,
he does believe in you as a worker, that's for sure, as a
worthy competitor against that despicable iron chic. Do you expect additional challenges from the
Sheikh? Yes, he's a great competitor and I would and I know he
would try to avoid some of the mistakes he made against me. But I
welcome his challenge and all challengers. Where did the phrase Hulkmania originate? I
inventeded it after a successful match one night, a journalist asked me how I
would describe the enthusiasm of the fans. For me, Whulkalmnia came to mind,
and it's stuck. I wear it out my T shirts. I encourage
and I encourage the fans to shout it when I wrestle. It really pumps
me up and I feel almost indestructible. Is there also significance to the American
made slogan on your T shirts? You bet there is a most important significant
significance. I' American born, American educated, American trained, and I want
to be an American success. America is the best, and I want to
be the best. Is the WW Championship the greatest achievement so far in your
career? Absolutely? But I would let myself, I let myself with my
fans down if I didn't strive to be better with each match. I study
each opponent, I train rigorously every day, and I concentrate at being the
best I can be. It's the American dream. If you want to go
for it, and I'm going and I'm going for it. After the interview,
Hulk and a few close friends left Madison Square Garden. It was quiet,
and only the changeover crew was still in the vast arena, which only
an hour before had been filled with the deafening roar of an approving crowd.
It was the quiet that announces the dawning of a new era, symbolic perhaps
that Hulkamania is a force destined to spread. As Hulk said, He's going
for it absolutely the case, Yes, indeed, and so with the table
set thusly, we do invite you to enjoy our interview with Brad Blucchin,
who's written the book The six Pack, to talk about so many wrestlers who
were in the mix in this transitional period from Backland to Chic to Hogan,
including recollections on the Iron Cheek doing the honors, and we're also going to
bring you as part of the Deep Dive. Are part three of all of
this coverage, a look at the Iron Cheek's perspective after hearing from Brad,
will dig in to some of the things Sheikh said in his time about losing
the championship so swiftly, about the apocryphal tale of him being offered at one
hundred thousand dollars to break Hulkogan's leg and where that comes from, where that
stems from, who has supported that story and who hasn't supported that story over
the years, and more color from that night in Madison Square Garden and how
the WWF, much like that magazine article portends, turned this night January twenty
third, nineteen eighty four into a springboard for a million different pieces of lore.
It seems like WWF becomes Rock and Wrestling to the max with hult Comania
as the rocket fuel. So we do thank you for joining us for part
one of our coverage here and keep it locked to that TLF feed as we
ring in forty years of Hulk Coogan's first WWF Temp title win. As is
only appropriate and as only we can agree with the announcement. As a t
J DeSantis production, its content is intended for private use only.