Hello, everyone, Welcome back to another episode of Let's Talk to Things,
where we discuss personal growth, travel, music, and wellness while encouraging you
to live fearlessly and fabulously. I am your host, Ash and this week
we are talking the Things with one of your favorite guests from season one,
entrepreneur and alumni vice president of Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity from Tokofa and Guenya.
Hi Muto, how are you? How are you? I'm good? Thanks.
I feel like you need a special like you know, welcome back song?
Don't you think welcome back? We gotta, we gotta, Yes,
yeah, you know what popped into my head. Let me see, Okay,
let me see if you're good. Because last time, if I remember
correctly, you told me that you know of jay Z songs, but you're
not like a die hard fan, right, all right, so let me
see if I can if I can do this, This might be a little
bit embarrassing. Hopefully I don't have to cut it out, but let me
just try, all right? What does it? What does the music go?
Now? Oh, dude, du dude, it's featuring jay Z.
Dude. The first line, dude, you're coming back? Yes? Hell?
No, man is impressed. We need to go on family feud.
We need to go on family feud. I think that's that's right. We
got this luck. That's that's that's I think that's Beanie single featuring jay Z,
g Z g Z featuring j Z. Oh okay, Yes, that
song was released in January two thousand and five. Isn't that crazy? Yeah?
Yeah, it's good time, like I mean, that's when g Z
was hot. Yes, he was hot. Rockefeller was still a thing,
you know. I think Rockefeller and Juvenile cash Money, they had just done
a concert like two thousand and two to two thousand and three. Yes,
very that was the big shirt, big pants days. Everybody's wearing Air Force.
Yeah, people were wearing suit and tie in the clubs. Yeah,
you remember those days, suit and tie in clubs. Business casual. Businessman
is crazy, exactly exactly. Oh my gosh. You know when you bring
up Juvenile, I mean, this man really thought that they were only going
to be taking over for the nine, nine, and two thousands. And
you know, you play that today and there's still the same reaction. Oh,
you know, that's a classic. It's that's twenty five years in crazy.
Oh my gosh, that is insane. That is crazy time. Oh,
time really flies. We're having fun though, absolutely that's dull. That's
like the only way come on is the one because life, God give us
you know someone exactly. This is the one that we know of, you
know exactly exactly last time you were on the show. I opened up with
song lyrics, and I guess we kind of did today, which was not
really planned. But after receiving so many messages and emails that people love the
Datna Sons segment, they asked that I move it earlier in the show.
So I decided for season two that I would start opening with it right.
So, as you know, for this segment, I'm going to read messages
or social media posts that listeners sent in, and if you think it sounds
crazy or concerning, you respond that no, sounds safe and explain why.
And if you agree, you say you agree and explain why it sounds good,
perfect, perfect, So the first one ghosting does not work on me.
I actually don't care if we don't talk. That's perfect, perfect,
That's my type of party. Safe to say that sounds safe, perfect,
perfectly safe, safe, safe on first space, even a home run.
You know, I just feel like at this big age. The ghosting thing
is for harassers maybe you know, like people that it's just like, you
know, I can't even have a conversation with you because it won't matter.
I think what this person might be saying, and I'm making an assumption.
But you know, sometimes there are people that don't want to deal with the
how do I say the Maybe ramifications is too strong of a word, but
you know what I mean, like the ramific the repercussions. There we go,
the repercussions of their actions. Right, So instead of just taking accountability
and say, you know, Muto, I'm messed up. I was supposed
to show up for you, I let you don't. There are some people
that will literally stop talking to you, thinking that you know, well if
I don't say anything for a time, maybe eventually, you know, they'll
reach out to me. But see, like you and I, that just
doesn't work because I'll just never speak to you again. Like mm hmm,
very true. It doesn't work everybody. So I do agree with that too.
Do we have do we have time for story time? Of course?
Story time, story time, story story story time. So I've been in
my previous life, uh, you know, my previous life many many many
years ago. I was I was actually ghosted once. Really it was.
It was the best decision that woman could have made. And some of some
of the listeners will know exactly what's happening. Some people it'll just be like
another random story. But you know, this individual was you know, we
were communicating for weeks, months at a time, and you know, so
I didn't realize what ghosting felt like. As a receiver of the ghost,
I was always uh, I was the ghosty, I was the ghost.
So but this time I was, I was the go Yeah, I was
receiving Casper. You know. You know, it was one of those you
send it a text, you know, you know how it is if you
have a normal cadence, you know, six times a day, then it
drops the three times, then it's once a week. And I said,
I looked on my phone and I said, maybe my text ain't going through.
I said, let me, let me just double check. But then
then I looked back and I looked up at the text, and I was
like, as I send three texts in a row now. But the redeeming
quality was one of my best friends. We were celebrating his birthday and this
same individual came out for the birthday and she acted like a full on mad
woman, like so so much so that everybody in the party was like,
this person is unsafe, unwell, and it's best you know. So it's
one of those situations. Ash when I tell you, if I told you
this story, you would be like, oh, okay, maybe, but
like people saw this in real life action, and you know, they were
in fear for my safety as well as their own safety. So when I'd
say, it was the best version that I got. So it was like,
you know, you know sometimes people say, you know, one of
my best friends told me he doesn't ever ask God why he didn't open the
door, because sometimes those doors get closed because you're not ready for whatever is
behind that door, so he'll just close it. Should you pry something open
that isn't for you? Yeah, top thing that was that was that was
in the before times. I think that had to be twenty eighteen twenty,
So that was the That was the first time I had experienced. I had
no idea what ghosting was. Literally, when I tell you what the next
one is, you're going to be like, people are going to think that
we plan this, And I keep telling people I do not tell anybody what
I'm going to talk to them about the next one muto is defending someone and
then experiencing why nobody likes them is so humbling. No, and how perfect
is that? It's literally the next one crazy? And you know a lot
of times, a lot of times, people that we love respect and the
door, whether they're are friends, our our mentors. A lot of us
cover up our brokenness with our degrees, with our experience, with our world,
with our world travels, with our ability to know what's a cramont,
you know what's a savion blanc, what's whiskey, what's a rum? What's
ray? And nephew, we we we put all of these things as armor.
But we're all just really broken and people are just people. Don't let
you in. They let you see a version. Everybody sees a version of
people, of course, of course, and I've told people like, if
you if you've seen me operate in my workspace, if you've seen me operate
in my business and my fraternity, whatever the situation is, you're going to
get the same guy. I don't. I don't code switch, and I
think I posted that on social media. The a couple of weeks ago that
I don't code switch. Well, I can I speak in my dialects,
yes, but but in Guyana they will say, you don't round up your
mouth, you know. You know, it's just you know, I remember
the the you know, in my professional setting, we were in a board
meeting and I told the president of the firm when everybody was trying to push
forward, you know, they were trying to push against the deal. I
told. I told the president. I said, I said, hey,
let's get it. Oh no, I said, let's get it, big
guy. And everybody was like, what what do you mean, Let's get
it? And he understood exactly what was happening, and we closed the deal.
You know. So it's like sometimes you got to put a little bit
of sauce. You gotta put a little bit of vernacular, you gotta put
a little bit of maybe I don't know if it's lack of brought upsy,
but you just gotta you just gotta talk. Man. You know, all
this English, all this English English thing ain't ain't always the way, you
know. So you know, that's so interesting that you say that, and
I agree with everything that you said. I actually had us, as you
know, on the podcast and my guys. Yes, yes, one of
my favorite persons, and we were talking about how you know, it's really
such a great thing to be able to show up as yourself, right,
absolutely. You see, the thing that I think some people don't understand,
is you mentioned degrees and hiding things with certain accolades, is that you can't
hide who you are who, right, because you see in all of those
different rooms, like you said, you're different in your fraternity, you're different
in a boardroom, you're different at home, you're different with your mom and
your sister, you still have the same character as a baseline, right,
And that's what I think people that are so focused on what other people think
about them or fooling other people that they don't realize you can't do that for
long. Eventually your character is going to show in some way, right.
So the goal is to have a solid character, but to know how to
show up in certain rooms, at least to me, Yeah, yeah,
now, and I think that's exactly right. And you know, as a
kid, as a teenager, being an offspring of African Caribbean parents, you're
taught to show up in a certain way. You know what. One day
we'll talk about the lasting impact of colonialism, British colonialism on African folks and
Caribbean people, right we talk about you know, I actually believe Africans and
Caribbean people speak the Queens or the Kings English more clearly than British people.
Right, because if you hear, if you hear a Scottish person who is
not well to do, he gonna sound like he from deep deep in yard.
You know, it's it's the twang is very similar, same thing with
the same thing with the with the Guyanese and the Trinidadians. It's actually,
in my opinion and from my own I'm not a linguist, but I'm sure
some of your friends are linguists. Of some of the listeners, there's a
there's a connection with the sing songiness of Ireland, Scotland, Jamaica, Trinidad,
Guyana and Yeah, and if you listen to Indians from India like New
Delhi and all of those places, they also have a cadence very similar to
Guyanese, Trinidadians, Jamaicans. You know, the pronunciation is different, but
the cadence is very similar. So I would love to I would love for
someone to do a deep dive there and again they were infiltrated and colonized by
the brit So it's very clear, very true. Yeah, the bridge have
made an impact. I think I read somewhere that England colonized somewhere between like
eighty and eighty five percent of the world. Like, that's that's wild.
Like a little little itybity country colonized eighty percent of the world something like that.
Somebody will, oh my goodness, that's I mean, if it's not
that's exact number, I mean, I'm sure it's pretty close. It's high.
It's very high. Wow. I can only name three, three or
four countries that don't celebrate an independence day. England, Spain, Portugal,
that's those those are the ones I can start with. Maybe maybe Germany and
Russia. I don't know, but there are only a few countries that don't
have an independence day. Wow. That's crazy when you think about it.
That's wow. That's mind bottling. Yeah, but I took you off track.
Let's let's go back to that the game. Yes, yes, so
the next one is your airport outfit is very important and don't let anyone tell
you differently. Definitely, Yeah, I agree, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
that you know I have a lot of thoughts about this, but me
too, I prefer really not to not to speak. If I speak,
I am in big trouble. When you have traveled in the eighties and the
nineties, when traveling was like when your parents are wearing a full suit and
when they're wearing heels. I have never traveled in shorts on a plate or
a jersey or a wife beater or slippers, and no disrespect to anyone that
does. But I also know I'm navigating international spaces as an African man,
right and I don't need any other distractions because you know, we can all
say oh yeah, we're black, we're this, you know, we pay
the same amount of money. But people see you first. They don't they
don't see your character first. So if you look clean, if you look
put together, you get a different level of respect. Let's let's just be
clear, let's not dance around there. No, definitely, because although that's
not something that people really want to talk about, because you're supposed to like
and love people for who they are, and absolutely, but the reality is
we all have eyes. As a matter of fact, we have two of
them, right, So you're going to see somebody to get that first impression
right. And look, if I'm on a long haul flight, if I'm
flying from South Africa to DC or to Atlanta, I'll definitely wear ath leisure,
right, but it'll be it will still be quality, you know.
And again sure we're not saying that you need to be in a suit,
but be clean, be presented. Mean I like that clean, you know,
and whatever clean means to you. I won't comment further because I put
something very similar on my Facebook and it was you know, it lit up.
So let me just any of you any other people that know me.
You guys know, my social media is just my name. You can google
me. You'll find it. So yeah, yes, yes, and we'll
give some time at the end. So let you guys know again because I
know you said it on the last one, but just in case we have
some listeners that didn't hear that one. Okay, no problem. This person
said. Someone once said water has no effect on fake flowers, and that
changed my entire mindset regarding relationships. Perfect. Yeah, yeah, no,
I agree. I think that's safe. Yeah, And so it's so like
thought provoking, right, because I think a lot of times, at some
point in our life, whether it's a job or a friendship or a romantic
relationship. We think that the more we watter someone, the more we pour
into them, the more we love them, that you know, it will
get them to change who they are, or you know, it will get
them to be a different person than they showed us that they are. And
you you realize, in whatever aspect you experience that in that that never works.
If anything, that person begins to resent you, right because they're now
thinking, wait, first of all, I'm jealous that you even have the
ability to be like this. But why do you even care about me or
like me, or you know, why do you want this job? Or
you know, why do you want to be my friend? I'm so horrible
to you. So now they start to look at you as so you're less,
you know, because it's kind of like, don't you see how I'm
treating you? So I just thought that was so it's such a thought provoking
way of saying you can't change someone, and you should believe people when they
show you who oh, absolutely absolutely, and people I'm a big believer that
people don't change, you know, they adjust. Yeah, So you know,
it's if you're rotten to your core, you know, like you know,
yes, with with time and therapy and all of those things, but
you know, oftentimes we still revert to who we really are until we correct
the issue. You know, of course, address and correct the issue,
of course, of course, And in order to do that, you have
to identify that you have a problem, right, And that's not easy for
a lot of people to be exactly, especially if people are in circles where
they are not held accountable, you know, and they don't have to really
own anything that they do. Then it's kind of like there's really a slim
chance that they're going to take responsibility. Yes, yes, definitely, definitely,
yeah, for sure. Okay, And the final one sometimes as an
adult, you have to decide this time is the last time this person is
going to make me feel this way and stand on it. Whether it's family,
a relationship, or a friendship. One hundred percent. Anyone that knows
me knows that if your family, blood, kin, god, whoever,
Like, if I cut you off, your cut off. It's very simple.
Yeah, and there's oftentimes no turning back if you are if you are
a detriment to me, my family, my personal beliefs, Like it's I
can love you from a distance. You know, I'm not I'm not.
I don't believe in just cutting people off just to cut them off. But
if you're right, I'm healthy, and it's it's it's it's showing that you
are truly impacting my livelihood, then I can love you from afar even if
you're family. It's okay. We have to be okay with that, absolutely,
because at the end of the day, I mean, our families are
also human beings. I think that people forget that sometimes, you know,
like blood relation makes us family, but everybody is a human and so they're
going to have human traits. Now, obviously you hope that your family is
going to do anything to harm you or hurt you or put you in any
bad situation. But I'm sure we can wrangle up several people that will have
a different take on what that is. You know, they might have got
relationships with their friends. You know, it's really all subjective. But I
think what you said is important and is actually a great segue for us to
really talk the things. Because June is, as I'm sure you already know,
Caribbean American Heritage Month, and it's also Men's Mental Health Awareness Month,
so I love to get your thoughts on why you think men's mental health awareness
is so important. Men's mental health is important because men can be a danger
to themselves and also to women. Right. An unwell man is like,
it's almost like a rabbit animal. It'll bite the hand that feeds you.
It'll bite its mother, right, it'll bite its caretaker. And you know,
there's that whole old adage. Hurt people, hurt people. In my
immediate circle of close friends, one hundred percent of the men in my close
circle, and even the women are currently in therapy, are seeing a therapist.
I've been seeing a therapist for the better part of fourteen years. It's
not something I'm ashamed of. It's actually something that I encourage my male friends
once I see, oh, there's a problem in their in their marriage is
a problem. If you have if you have a problem with everybody, or
if everybody is the problem, it's you. You know, if you can't
control your temper, if you have road rage, if you have dysfunctional relationships
with your siblings, seek therapy. We all come from trauma household. And
I had this conversation actually with my mother the other day, and I told
her, I said, the way she raised the family, the way dad
raised the family. It's very different when you're coming from uh a mentality of
potentially losing your finances in stable find instability in your finances, or if you
were like our grandparents, our great grandparents, everybody wasn't necessarily born rich,
right, So it's like if if you're trying to pay the bills, if
you if you have to go to work. And this is not necessarily my
family, but I've seen families whereas like the parents are working two or three
jobs. They're just trying to make sure that their kids can eat and and
but it's like they can't nurture and love their children the way that you know
a lot of children need. So I say this to say, I think
it's important for men to talk to other men about being in therapy. And
if you have, if you live in America or if you live in the
UK, I know a lot of those times you can have you know,
your healthcare provider take care of it, your your insurance, but if you
can budget for it, it's it's it's the best investment that you can make.
Besides having a fantastic tailor, you need a you need a good mental
health person. It'll it'll keep it'll keep you out of jail, and it'll
keep you surviving and thriving in all of the relationships that you hold in.
Chair Absolutely, I think it's just it's so important to I would say,
at a base level, just have someone I'll start there, that you can
talk to about your emotions. And like you said, that could prevent you
from going to jail or just something really bad. But it also will have
you fumbling people that you will never get back again. And I don't mean
esthetically. I don't mean that, you know, beautiful woman or that really
handsome. I don't mean that I'm talking about. It will have you messing
up relationships, partnerships with people that you know really care about you or want
the best for you, because you don't like yourself, you know, and
because you're not able to deal with whatever you have is like going on in
your head. You don't know how to receive that, and it's so it's
so to me, it's kind of sad because I always feel like those people
later on end up realizing, but then it's too late, and then every
other person they get they're going to compare to you. Oh yeah, oh,
yeah, oh yeah. And also when you're in therapy. I didn't
realize that people were still lying to their therapists. It's just like you're doing
yourself a disservice, you know, And bepist doesn't mean that you're weak,
you know. It's just like going to get your teeth checked, like going
to get a physical. But we also know that we probably know some people
that don't get their teeth checked because there's white coat syndrome, you know,
or they're just afraid, or maybe you can't afford it, because the US
healthcare system is is a very difficult system. It's one of the only systems
I've believe where your healthcare is tied to the job that you have. Yeah,
so there are a lot of people who are under under I don't know
what the word is, but the phrase what I'm saying is like they're not
able to see their practitioners regularly. Yeah. Yeah, I don't mean to
add a little funny in here, but they know how I feel about dental
care. We had doctor a on here and we talked about flossing. People.
Listen to me and listen to if it's one thing you must do if
you don't really want to pay for the doctor and the dentist and the vision,
and you don't want the payment coming out to your check on all these
things. Pay for the dentist. We do not want to see coco bread,
nor hard or bread between your sorry loss cost maximum five dollars and that's
the good Flass, that's the good Crest upgrade. Okay, Floss says at
Dollar Tree. Okay, Oh yeah, Like you should be going to the
dentist every six months minimum, because I think that's what most insurance are.
If you can go more than that, go because what doctor A told us
on this podcast is people don't realize and I was one of the people.
I didn't know about all these other things that it can lead to. But
it can lead to heart disease. It can lead to death, you know,
because certain stuff goes on in your mouth and if it's not checked,
it can lead to worse problems. So, yes, hygiene, it's very
important. I'm sorry, I just had to add that there since you brought
it up. It's very important, right, But like you said, back
to what you were saying, taking care of your mental health is important,
and I love that you said it doesn't make you weak right, because the
audience for this obviously my audience is very heavily female, but there's a lots
of men that listen to this podcast, particularly when I have male guests.
You know. So the fact that you said that, I think is very
important because you do have some men that were raised by a generation of men
that think that that is weak. Oh yeah, oh yeah, you know,
so that's definitely something to highlight. And I want to add to what
you said regarding you know, having a tailored suit and having the physical appearance
even what we were talking about in dat noasun safe, like presenting yourself well
and how you're treated. Right, in my observation, most men are very
disciplined when it comes to two things I think having a haircut and working out
right basically their physical appearance. And don't get me wrong, like I said
earlier, physical appearance absolutely matters, right, like exercise, being well groomed.
Absolutely. To me, that's not really the that's not really what's important
in a man or what makes someone a man or a good man at that,
right, Like, what I think is important is how do you react
when someone tells you no? How do you react when people disagree with you?
When your food order is wrong. You know, like how do you
speak to people? Like to me that that is what matters. But I
would love to get your thoughts, like, you know, do you think
that there should be more focus on that rather than like, oh, you
know, my haircuts nice and I'm going to the gym and I'm you know,
posting gym videos or whatever the case may be. Yeah, so yes,
I think they call those guys Jim bros. Right. So yeah,
So I think it's like in any it's just like in any fine, It's
like it's in any company or any any genre of man. If it's a
man who spends thirty hours a week on his car, you know, if
it's a man that spends he's going to Turkey to get hair plugs, that's
fine. If that's if that's going to boost your your confidence, do what
you need to do. If it's going to the gym. But it's like,
are you happy on the inside, Like that's what what's that's what matters?
Are you doing these things as a vanity thing or are you doing them
because it's part of your DNA? Because I say, I have consistently said
that kindness is the great equalizer a man, woman, child, appreciate kind
human beings. No one's going to say you have a you have a full
head of hair, that makes you a more trustworthy person. You have a
six pack. You know I'm going to give you this job. People will
always remember how you meet them feel, not how you look. Right.
I mean, if you're a movie star, if you're Tom Brady and you
want to get you know, your cheeks chiseled, and you want to get
botox, do what you want to do. No one cares about that.
But when you are when you are a teammate, when you are a champion
like Tom Brady, Yes he wins, But do people say that he's a
kind person? Do people want to continue to work with him? Do people,
you know, do children love him? I don't know, Like that's
not for me to judge, but I'm I'm a firm believer in you know,
and people always say, how do you treat weight staff? It's also
like, how do you treat your mother? Forget the weight staff, how
do you treat your kids? When I'm around your kids, do your kids
respect you? Or do they want to get away from you? You know?
So like that to me is is what matters that's the core of who
you are. It's how you treat those who are closest to you, you
know, because we can all pretend it work. You know, we can
all pretend at work because we want that coin. But how do we talk
How do we talk to our parents who are aging? You know, I'm
in the generation where my parents, you know, my parents are aging,
Our aunties and uncles are sixty seven. Like, yeah, they are different
than when they were in there. It was the eighties and they were in
their twenties and thirties and forties. You know, it's very different. It's
very different. So like, how patient are you with your with your parents
and your siblings? You know, that's that's what I look for. Many
of us are afraid to ask the questions when we're in love, you know,
we're all I think we're in a generation now where it's like the man
has to do one hundred percent. You know, I hate relationship podcasts and
I know this is not what this is turning into, right, the concept
where it's like, you know, if you're doing fifty to fifty, he's
not a real man. If he's paying for everything, you should be able
to live your lifestyle do your business and he handles all the bills. I
think you have to figure out what makes sense for you. That's number one.
But it's also like asking those tough questions. Have you ever abused a
woman? Have you ever abused your mother, Whether it's verbal, emotional,
physical, whatever the situation is, right. What women need to realize is
if you ask a real man a question, a real question, he'll give
you an answer and let him speak, right. You have to be able
to let the man speak, because most honest men will give you the truth.
He'll may say I had a situation that got taken care of, I
have a hot temper, whatever. But you have to ask those questions because
people will play house with their children. People mothers will protect their sons in
front of strangers. So it's like you really just have to dig deep.
And obviously, if you if you hit a nerve, you know you don't
want to keep prodding at that nerve, a plucking at that nerve. But
now you know that you've hit a nerve and you address it on another day.
But you have to start with the real questions. We don't ask questions
like I ask. I ask those kinds of questions. Have you. What
kind of relationship do you have with your father? What kind of relationship do
you have with your mother? Oh? You don't like your mother? Why?
Oh? Is it? Oh? It's because when you know, from
six years old to eighteen years old, she was strung out on drugs.
Okay, that's understandable, right, you know she left you while you were
in your formative years, and now you have a very strained relationship. I
get it. I get it, but I'm not going to make that assumption.
You need to tell me, and I need to ask, And I'm
okay with asking because that's going to manifest itself in your relationship and it's going
to manifest itself in your children. Right, that makes sense. That's so,
that's great advice. Yeah. And I don't want to bring children into
this world. We shouldn't want to bring children into this world with the downloaded
foolishness that we're going to give them. Those kids are a reflection of us,
absolutely absolutely. I always say, you know, children pick up what
you do and who you are, and not what you say exactly exactly.
You know, so you can say all the great things and quote all the
Bible verses and take them to church every Sunday. But you could still have
a monster in your house if you act in a certain way, you know,
or if they hear you, maybe talking behind people's back or calling people
out their name. If they're hearing that, you can't turn around and quote
a Bible verse and think they're going to be a saint. You know,
like children pick up what their their family life is like yeah, definitely know
what they mean, like definite. They really those are the things that they
remember and that's their reference point if you really think about it. Always always
okay. So kind of related to that, we talked about friends and family
and basically loved ones. Right, have you ever had maybe I don't know
if difficulty is the right word, but yeah, well let's say difficulty.
Have you ever had difficulty navigating how to support a male friend or family member
with their mental health? Just because, like you said, especially in our
culture, it can be seen as like, what do you mean, I
need to see a therapist? Or it can be taken as offensive. No,
So I think the beauty of the relationships that I have with my brothers,
my cousins, my male friends is I'm usually a place where people can
come in, you know, lay down their sorrows, lay down their burdens.
It's a safe space. Like anyone that has gone out with me,
visited with me knows that, Like my place is always a sanctuary. So
you come in their plants, there's gonna be a drink, there's gonna be
food, and if you decide to talk, we can talk. If you
don't, it's also fine. But I advocate I lead with empathy, right,
And that's actually something that I learned as as I approached you know,
middle middle to late thirties. It wasn't something that was top of mind,
and I realized that most great leaders have empathy or at least can channel that
empathy even if they don't mean it, right. Yeah, And so yeah,
I don't have I've never had a difficult time, okay, someone navigate
their mental health because I've told them. All of my boys, my family
know that. I've been seeing a therapist for fifteen years plus. So you
know, I've seen a couple therapists. I've seen an individual therapist. You
know, I've seen a therapist with family. So for me, it's just
like if you can't the issues rarely us there's usually something that you're looking at,
right, there's an object. Let's say it's you and I are having
an argument. We're arguing about something not necessarily about me and you, so
we have to look at that something and figure out like it's me and you
versus that something, it's not it's not me and you versus each other.
Got too Yeah yeah, oh yeah. So to answer your question, I
don't have an issue and I haven't had one, and I think it's just
because I'm transparent and I'm honest when it comes to my own mental health.
Yeah. No, And I think just in saying that you gave really great
advice about leading with empathy, I think it's very important. I think it's
a word that gets thrown a a lot, so sometimes people claim to have
it but really don't have it. And again this goes to action, right,
because let's just say you were just saying that you feel like you're empathetic,
right, but you had no action to back it up. Somebody could
be listening and say, like, he's not empathetic. I went to him
the other day my problem and he said, just shut up and do what
you have to do. Right, but described ways in which you show empathy,
which is listen, if you don't want to talk. We don't have
to talk. I'm not going to say, man, you know, like
tell me something like don't just sit here. That's like forcing somebody to say
something. You know, like you're you're basically saying you create a space for
people to feel safe, whether that's safe in just sitting there in silence or
safe expressing themselves. That's a form of empathy. So I think it's important
in you telling that story that people hear that and say, Okay, you
know what if I want to be there for one of my male friends,
one of my guy friends, you know, I just need to tell him
that I'm here and then just wait. Absolutely that's a strategy. Absolutely sure,
man, like tell me let's get drinks and like maybe he doesn't want
to do that, right, No, you know, men will talk as
long as you know what question to ask. And sometimes you just have to
ask an open ended question. You can't ask them, oh what did you
do for lunch today? You have to say how was your week? How
was your family? Right? Right? What did you enjoy most? What
was the most challenging time? Oh? Yeah, tell me more, like
just let them talk. But you can't, you can't ever men don't want
to feel like they're being interrogated. Yeah, like that, like that fIF
twenty one questions, Like men don't like twenty one questions, but they do
like to feel hurt. I mean, I'm a woman and I don't like
twenty one questions. I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. I've had some of
your fraternity brothers on and they spoke about how Alpha, particularly the brotherhood that
they experience, has had a significantly positive impact on their mental health, you
know. And what they mentioned is like just knowing that they always have someone
to go to and someone who checks in with them, which I think is
so beautiful and so needed. You know, I just wondered, how would
you say that Alpha has helped you navigate your mental health, whether it was
no or in your formative years, And can you share a brother that has
been there to support you through ups and downs of adulthood? Oh yeah.
So Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Incorporated is a Greek lettered organization intercollegiate first black
Greek letter intercollegiate organization in the United States of America. You know, it's
it's it's it's a fraternity or college educated men, right, which is a
subset of men already. What I will say, is it joining the fraternity
help me understand what it means to be mentally tough? You know, there
is, there is, there are steps that you need to achieve before you
are able to get your membership right, and there are things that you just
have to learn. There are things that you have to do, and being
out of your comfort zone, being pushed beyond what you're normally used to allows
for you to grow it in a different way. Right. So, and
I want to make sure that I'm not sounding KOI or anything like that.
But it's like if you are used to being, you know, getting four
point zero all a's or a's and b's okay, But can you do that
while while riding a bicycle? Can you do that while juggling? So it
teaches you how to prioritize or how to excel while doing something that's of lesser
value, or while doing something that may be as mundane as gardening. Right,
So that's number one. Number two, It also helps you navigate men,
right, men, and the dynamics between men and women are very different,
or is the dynamics are different from man to man, Because if I
have an altercation with a man, it's ego, ego, ego, bravado,
bravado, bravado. But if I have an altercation with a woman,
it's gonna it should look very different. Right, And the way women navigate
each other is very different from how women navigate men. Right. Maybe if
I, if I can paint it at broad strokes, maybe there's more cattiness.
There's more pettiness with men. It's like, big up your chest.
My chest is bigger than yours, So can I cuff you down or not?
Right? But it also puts you in a space where everybody has done
what you have done. Everybody is educated, everybody is intelligent, right,
So it puts you in a space where you can talk to these men who
have gone through trying situations and have persevered. So there is a brother I
won't use his name, but he and I have literally known each other since
two thousand and two, and we were fraternity brothers. But now we're friends,
right, so we often forget that we're fraternity brothers. But when there
were times when he was at his lowest, I've been at my lowest and
he was the first person that I called because I needed to make sure that
I could be talked off a ledge, right, same thing with him.
There are times even like even now, like job search is family drama,
personal life drama, me forwarding forwarding my therapist's information to him, making sure
that he follows up with that therapist. Like men will listen to men before
they listen to people who aren't man. That's number one. And this is
me speaking about me. I don't want to. I will often listen to
advice from a man that I respect, whether it's my father, my uncle,
my godfather, my big brother, before some random individual, before some
women. Right. Obviously, if you're married, you should have a healthy
relationship with your spouse and you be able to bounce information off. But to
put a bow on this, I learned from my fraternity brothers. From my
fraternity, I learned how it looks like to be accountable to men in a
platonic scenario, in a professional in a professional scenario, because we have programs,
we have money, we have things, So it truly pushes you to
be a better professional, It pishes you to be a better human being,
and then it also pushes you to be a better friend. Right, So,
like, those are the things that I have learned and I have navigated
since I've joined my nice and you talked about programs, and I was actually
going to ask, do you have programs that help, especially with the persons
like us that are still in college, Like, are there programs that you
have at even the alumni level that can assist them? You know, outside
of like you said, them being able to come to you or call on
you, or like he said, you know persons he can call on.
Are there programs as well that they can be a part of. Yeah,
definitely. So we have things like so, for example, there's a seminar
that I do. I call it the Psychology of Dress, right, you
know, people used to call it dress for Success. I think that's a
silly and cheesy name and no disrespect to anyone who's that. So who uses
that, Moniker? But I use the Psychology of dress because I've realized and
I've seen that a lot of men women don't know how to wear a suit.
They don't know how to wear a tucceedo, they don't know how to
wear a goal, they don't know how to sit at a dinner table.
They don't know what's a water glass, what's a wine glass, what's a
tumbler? Right, So, there's that. We also have financial seminars.
We also have also you know, mental health seminars if you're trying to buy
a home. We have some groups where people are doing we're in investment clubs,
you know, because everybody just because you go to college doesn't mean that
you know how to navigate money. That doesn't mean you know how to buy
a house. It doesn't mean you know how to travel, It doesn't mean
you know there. So the beautiful thing about the fraternity is that everybody went
to college, but everybody has a different skill, everybody has a different specialty,
you know. So we have billionaires and we have people who are you
know, average blue collar workers. They're blue collar workers that are that are
in the organization, but they're just but it's just like we you can cultivate
different relationships and pick and choose from what you want, but you know,
it's the fraternity. You only get what you put in, honestly, which
is with everything right, essentially absolutely absolutely. Okay, So for our second
to last section, last time, I'm sure you'll remember, we spoke about
generation or we don't really speak about it, but we briefly touched on it.
Generational courage, versus generational trauma, right, And I wanted to really
expound upon that thought that I had in our conversation. I don't remember the
exact context it was around, but I remember when I said it. We
both were like, oh, that's another episode. And a lot of people
messaged me about that, like, you guys have to do that other episode
because I would love to hear you know, they would love to hear our
take on it. So, how do you think generational courage, or the
generational courage demonstrated by your ancestors or your parents, grandparents, influences your resilience
and approach to the challenges that you face today, right, because a man,
especially in the context of overcoming the generational trauma. Yeah, so that's
a good question. And I always tell people if I could do UNI again,
I would do engineering, or I would do anthropology. It's the building
blocks of you know, infrastructure and the building blocks of human beings. Yeah.
Yeah, So I've done a ton of research about my own ancestors,
and you know, on my my maternal side, you know, we're Guyanese.
We and then you know, if we pushed back further, we're actually
Beijing as well. So if that means for Beijing. That also means that
we from Diasporically we are West African probably right, but there's also on my
African side. You know, historically we're Southern African always. But it's like
there were movements by my great grandfathers, by my great great grandfathers, like
moving north. So we were still in the south, but we moved from
different parts of South Africa to different parts of Southern Africa. So we moved
for education, and we moved for farmland, we moved for opportunities. And
I if I can just look back at my parents or even my grandparents,
everybody traveled. You know, nobody, none of those none of even two
generations back. Nobody lives in their hometown. Nobody lives even in their home
state. Most of them, most of those people didn't live, don't even
end up living in their home country as adults. So it's like travel has
been something that I can trace back, you know, five generations, six
generations that I can see that it's the same thing. My grandmother, my
maternal grandmother, wasn't rich, but anybody that was walking down her her road
could come any time of day for a hot pot of soup. Some curry,
some bread, some whatever the situation is because of exactly because her mother
did the same thing. You know. Now, all of my aunties,
you can go to their home, there's somebody living with them, there's somebody
that's stopping by because they just wanted a hot cup of tea. So it's
like you don't even Again, it goes back to what we were saying about
children. Children look with their eyes and they also look with their hearts,
right, So that generational Sometimes it's a generational curse, but it's really strength.
So it's like, you want to be better than your parents, you
want to be better than your ancestors, But at the same time, it's
that's who you are, your core, you know. Yeah, same thing
that you're telling me. And I feel like every Caribbean person I talk to,
they say the same thing about their grandparents or great grandparents, you know,
yeah, which to me shows a lot of warm and empathy and even
courage, right, because it's like that took courage. But you also have
to think of what trauma that caused, right, Meaning for her, maybe
she wanted to travel and see the world, but she couldn't do that because
she had to She felt like she had to take care of everybody. Mm
hmmm hm. I guess I would ask you, do you ever think that
your aunt's, for example, or even your mom, But I would just
say your aunts and you know, maybe your grandparents, like from that time,
do you ever wonder like if they had dreams that they weren't able to
fulfill because it was expected that they took care of everybody and didn't really take
care of themselves and what they wanted. I hear them saying it now,
you know, I've heard my mother say, you know, my mother is
the firstborn, oldest daughter. She's not the firstborn, but she she's been
saying like she had been taking care of the family since she was like or
at least contributing since she was in her I think she said nineteen or twenty.
I think my mother said when she was twenty or twenty one years old,
she was making more money than her parents, you know, So like
that's that's a different level of stress, you know. So it's like,
you know, your siblings, her older brothers made sacrifices so that she could
advance and she could advance her education. So it's like it's I think it's
that that's like psychological term of I don't know the exact term, but it's
like a survivor's guilt. You know, she's the one, she's the one
that made it so like everybody, so now she wants to pour into everybody
else. But then everybody else isn't built like you. You know, just
because you have seven siblings, all seven are not going to be at the
same level. You know, we can even we can talk about the Jackson
five, like everybody wasn't Michael. Yeah, I look at how they treated
him because he was a special one. Yeah, and that's okay. But
yeah, so they absolutely feel like they should have and could have done more,
but they felt handicapped because they were providing and protecting others instead of themselves.
You know, all of what we're discussing, I mean to me,
all I hear and see is strength and courage. Absolutely absolutely. It's funny.
It's interesting that I didn't specify for you to give a response of whether
you were going to talk about the males or the women or the men in
your family, but you chose the women. And I think that's very telling
because I often say I do not tell people these conversation on topics or these
questions. And I find it so heartwarming and interesting and just lovely that every
time I have a man on here, it somehow goes back to the mom,
the grandmother, and you know, the courage or the respect for them.
And I think that says a lot about well, I was going to
say the men that I choose to have on here, but I wouldn't have
anyone on here that I didn't respect or thought respected women. So I guess
it's to kind of be expected. But again, you could have named you
know, your uncles, you know what I mean. And I think that's
that's really telling because a lot of those generational courage and even trauma stories,
but a lot of the courage stories come from the women in our family.
Absolutely. I mean, even in patriarchal families, the mother has a strong
support system, the mother is still the nurturer. So even the queens like
it doesn't matter what the situation is, of women will always be the bedrock
of the family. Even if the man is the lead, the woman is
who takes care of home. And I mean, obviously this is this is
me painting broad strokes. Are their fathers that step into through absolutely areas that
don't apply to the don't conforms to societal norms. Absolutely, but of course
there's a there's a you know, people, even people's even women, I
think there are tender spaces for their mothers. It's just it's just just the
way that we that we're built. And it's okay. One of the ways
that I'm certain, speaking of your ancestors, that you're making your family and
your ancestors prode is through your philanthropic work in Southern Africa. And so before
we get to our last segment, I wondered if you could share your recent
trip to Zambia in your quest to support children, more specifically on a mission
to end menstrual poverty in Zambia. Yeah, that's that's something that's actually now
near and dear, I don't want to pretend or pontificate like this is something
that I did a ton of research on. I was literally planning a trip
that I planned annually semi annually, and you know, I wanted to do
something different. I wanted to do something that that would that would be bigger
than me, that would be bigger than the group. And you know,
I asked my team, I said, look, what what's needed? And
you know there, you know, there was a need for minstrual pads,
tampons, you know, panty liners, and there was literally a shortage in
Zambia and Zimbabwe. And what people take for granted in the West in Europe
where you could just go in and get you know, go in and get
them. It's like these stores weren't having them. So it wasn't even like
we were in some rural development. We were in the tourist we were in
the tourist capital, and you couldn't find these things, right. Wow.
So I literally put together a flyer with my team and I said, hey,
I put it on social media, said look, I'm traveling in two
weeks, would love anybody to support. Please send me your you know,
please send me some tampons. People were asking if they could send me money.
I said, I don't want your money. Send it to me via,
you know, send it to me in the mail and I'll pick it
up, because you know, I don't want to be in a situation where
people feel like, oh I sent him one hundred dollars and he only bought
two tampons. You buy them, I'll distribute them right and you know,
and you know, I put it out once on social media and you know
it was it reached hundreds of people. And there was a time when I
walk I walked to the distribution the place where I was picking up all the
items. The distribution center. We were able to distribute I think like three
or four thousand tampons right and I still have another two thousand, three thousand
that I wasn't able to travel with. So I've partnered with not an NGO
in Zambia. I'm looking to partner with Johnson and Johnson if you're listening,
Tampax. If you're listening, you know, we'll take all of those.
But it's literally, you know, I don't want to pay attacks to bring
in free items and give these things away for free. I'm not making any
money on them. I'm literally and so anyway, I'm looking for more sponsors.
I'm looking for people to make more donations. If you look at social
media, you'll see we were able to meet with the Mayor of Livingston,
Zambia, which is the tourist capital. You know, We've met with the
health, the Ministers of Health, the Minute stir of tourism, so we're
on the radar of the country. We went to a school, a second
elementary school, and then a secondary school. So these are young ladies who
just at starting puberty, just they're starting their periods. And then we also
distributed to girls in secondary school who would otherwise be missing seven days of school
per month, you know, because they they're ashamed. They don't have the
proper tools to take care of this thing, so they're missing school. So
they're not being podcast hosts, they're not being doctors, they're not being lawyers,
they're not being you know, whatever it is. So they're losing their
education because of something that is human based. So I'm trying to solve that.
And if one thing your listeners can do is literally send it to me,
you send it to me, it'll get to them. Yeah, and
we want we want to have a repository, and we are not charging these
young women. We're targeting schools that are you know, in lower income areas,
right, We're targeting schools where they're really struggling. So you know,
these kids are are healthy, they're well, you know, they're healthy,
they eat food, you know, but they are struggling because listenings are expensive,
and then they're also just not available. That's really they're just not available.
And it's so interesting because it's something that as a woman, I think,
you know, any woman listening in first world country, we take for
granted that we can just go to CBS or go to you know, the
supermarkets and just pick them up, like yeah, we might say, oh
my gosh, it's expensive here or something like that. But the fact that
they're not even available, and like you said, it's a human problem,
right like that, it's a problem that they're not available, But the actual
mental cycle is not a problem. It's a part of being a woman.
So it's not something that can be stopped or it's not something that only women
in first world countries have. Women have them, period, no matter where
you are. I know that some of my classmates from HBS they work in
certain companies. If they're listening, maybe they can get in touch with somebody.
And certainly if you reach out to me, I will send that to
MUTO and you guys can link that up for sure. Wait wait, wait,
wait, wait wait wait wait, let's let's not ladies and gentlemen,
let's not gloss over with it. What does HBS stand for? Put put
put some respect on HBS or let them put the respect on you. So
what's HBS? Please? I want to write, moto, why are you
doing this to me? And don't edit it out because I'll just keep talking.
Oh my gosh, So I can't. And you know, this is
how you see how little sisters get treated. This is not right, but
it's fine, it's fine. I'm gonna leave it. So HBS stands for
Harvard Business School. Hear that? Hear that? No, But but in
all honesty, I think it's you know, and you know there I think
a topic we should cover. And by we, I mean your podcast is
we need to figure out a way about not being humble. We don't always
have to be humble or modest like other people say. I went to this,
I'm number one, I'm the best. What's wrong with us saying that?
You know, we've always been taught to mind your business, mind your
place, act like you've been here before. But in twenty twenty four,
we are still going to see black kids in Europe, black kids in America,
black kids back home who will be first generation college students. Very true,
you know, which is why people still get very excited over prom and
this thing wrong with prom. But a lot of times prom maybe the biggest
achievement until you have a baby or until you get married. So I do
think there needs to be a study as to why. You know, when
we're walking across the stage, we have to be quiet, but you know,
anybody else can be loud, you know. So anyway, yeah,
anyway, grau and you know me, I will talk up you know when
I'm ready. But because we're talking about philanthropy, I want to take away
yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, but no, you do bring up a
good point about being you know, just the idea of being humble, and
like you said, that could be a whole episode in and of itself for
sure. So yeah, for all all the HBS folks, anybody that works
in tech, anybody that works in healthcare, hit up me, head up,
actually hit me up, Like I will answer your calls, I'll answer
your messages. Like we're going late this year and I want to take five
to six thousand more paths. Right, you can do the math. You
know, most women will know how many they use per day? Time seven?
Yeah, you knoweah, because it also depends on your cycle for sure,
exactly. You know time seven times twelve you know, times twelve months.
Yeah, you know, so it's just it's not a lot, but
it's it's making a dent. But if we can work on a way to
partner, if we can do habitat for humanity, we can do, we
can imper your poperty pretty absolutely absolutely, And as we say in Jamaica,
every mechamchal exactly, even if it's the one set up you can send because
it's worth it. It's worth it for sure. For our final segments,
okay, you know the drill, I'm going to ask you rapid fire questions,
okay, and I would like you to answer with one word or one
sentence, and if you have to go over because some of them you could
probably go over a sentence. It's fine. But I just like to tell
people that they don't feel like they have to give these long drawn out answers.
All right, So who is your hero? My father? Hm?
I love that. What did you want to be when you were small?
An attorney? M wall Street attorney to be exact specifically? You know what?
I also notice we tend not to say when you were little? We
say when you were small? Yeah I thought that when you said little little,
No, I said small. But I'm just saying like, yeah,
I'm noticing, Like you know, I don't think a lots of people say
when you were small. Like after I said it, I was like,
hmmm, even small days. You know, there's a whole song small days,
right right? Okay, next one, what are two of your biggest
pet peeves? Being late and being inconsiderate? Now I have to ask a
little question. I don't do this often when you say being late, because
some people I know have a little bit of a problem. I'm not calling
it a game. When you say being late, do you mean like five
minutes late or do you mean like an hour late? It's just obnoxious.
If you're perpetually late, it's okay, like you know, it's just it's
just because the problem with being late is you get on the road and then
everybody's a fool, you know, because now you're rushing. So and I'm
not saying you need to show up to places fifteen minutes early. But I
if I go to my doctor and I have a nine thirty year appointment,
I don't want to be seen at tenth if I have to do paperwork.
If I have to do paperwork, tell me to come in at nine fifteen
so that I can be seen by nine thirty. No, for sure,
I agree with that one. As you said, doctor's office, I agree
with that one for sure. No, no, no. My last question,
I know I'm not really supposed to do this, but I have to
ask how does one navigate that being both Caribbean and African, Because you know
it's in our DNA to be late, So how does that exactly work for
you? Friends? So it's I have to massage a lot of my relationships
because sometimes I'll run late. But this is what I do, right.
I'm not saying that you should never run late. You should communicate when you're
running late. You should be oh, okay, that's fair. You can't
say I'm down the road, but you're jumping in the shower. Oh my
gosh, Moto, you're dripping a lot of people right now. No,
no, the entire Caribbean guys. I'm so sorry he's dropping all of us.
But you know it is right. He's right. But it's just a
yeah. But people's relationships would be so much better if you just said,
you know what, I can't do dinner at seven thirty, but I can
be there by eight. No one's feelings are going to be hurt, then,
they could just adjust there because now you know, there are a lot
of these restaurants that won't see you until everybody is there, which I hate.
Yes, I'm like, I want to eat now, and I want
to I want to spend my money. Now. You know, there was
a time where I actually actually, uh it was I think it was a
reservation for six and the other person wasn't showing up. I said, just
making five them and they sat us. Oh you know then you know they
sat as still at a similar table than the person was able to add on.
But just communicate man, people. Yeah, that's fair. That's definitely
fair. Definitely, definitely that's fair. So I had another question I have.
I have two more actually, but I just I just something. I
don't know if I'm going to regret this, but I've never done this before.
You can ask me any question you want to ask me, and I
will answer. What's your biggest fear about this podcast? My biggest fear hmm.
I wouldn't call it a fear, but I would not want I would
be very bothered. And as we say, feel away, I feel away
if you know person's out there, like particularly women, because that's a majority
of my audience, and obviously I'm a woman, but anybody out there,
you know, wasn't able to hear certain episodes, right, or maybe heard
an episode like after something happened, you know, like I have a solo
episode called emotional Intelligence. Is a real generational wealth. And although it was
from early on in season one, that's probably the episode I get the most
like messages and emails vote wow, you know, because it's just me and
it's just me talking. But I think a lots of and it's from men
and women. I think a lots of people resonate with it. Because my
analogy for that is that a lot of people take pride, and you talked
a little bit about it earlier. Coincidentally, take pride in saying that you
know their parents have trust funds for them, or you know their grandparents left
them this extravagant home or jewelry or cars or things like that, right,
but that will eventually run out. What have your parents or your family members
poured into you that you can then give to the next generation. So we
have more generational courage than generational trauma. And so if I had to use
a word fear, I guess maybe I would say my biggest fear is that
doing this and having these conversations goes in vain in the sense of it doesn't
reach the people that it needs to reach. But again, the reason I
wouldn't say fear is because I know why I started this podcast, and I
know that it's rooted in God, and I know that from the conversations that
I have with people, some of whom I'm not friends with, like you
and I don't know, They've all, whether it's on the podcast or when
we stop recording, they've all said to me the same thing, like you
make me feel so comfortable, Like I didn't even realize I was talking about
all these things, and you know, I really just enjoy speaking to you.
And that's just such the biggest compliment because to me, like for people
to come on here not know what I'm going to ask them and trust me
and especially I don't know, to me is the biggest compliment because it's a
reflection that I am who I say I am, and you know, people
have to be able to understand and realize that, but people don't. People
don't. People don't. But yeah, but you have to be yourself.
But I do think listening I wish people would be able to listen to things
prior to as well, instead of having to say, damn, you know,
this is really good information. It's better to be armed with the with
the information than have to, you know, fight back, because now you're
you know, you're learning it after you have the trauma. Yeah, but
that was a great question, Thank you very much. I've never done that
before. Yeah, I was nervous. I'm like, oh my gosh,
I'm I going to have regrets. But that was a good question. Okay,
So the final question, if you could say one thing to eighteen year
old Mutokofa and Gwenya, what would you say one thing? There's more?
M Can you expound upon that a little bit? That's very deep? Yeah.
I think I think we often only see as far as what our family
has done, often what our parents have done, often what our peers have
done, and you can sort to higher heights. You know, you can
do more in less time. You don't have to follow the blueprint. You
can go on the road that's less traveled. But just know there's more that
you can do, you know. I think I think our Caribbean parents,
our African parents who are always like go to high school, go to college,
you know, work a job, because that's what they may have done,
that's what they may have seen a stable. But it's like you could
do that plus plus be creative, you know, absolutely, Yeah, you
come from a family of creatives, but a lot of other people don't.
It's because it's like being an actor doesn't make you know, you don't.
There's this whole concept of being a starving, starving artist. But you can.
You can be a lawyer and still do art. You know. I
know a lot of people now who their side hustle is making a good coin,
but they're still in corporate America because they want healthcare, you know.
So you could do both, you know, And so I guess maybe it's
less that it's maybe it's less that that there's more. But you can do
both. You know, you can be artistic and you can be in corporate
America. You could be creative and you can be mechanical. So you can
do both, you know, because I think we just I think our parents
just wanted us to be functioning human beings. And you know, sometimes like
you know, I've seen this new generation of kids who were doctors. They're
you know, they look regular, you know, they look they look like
us, you know, you know, not like when we were kids.
Doctors looked away, you know, shirt and tie and hard bottom shoes.
These you know, these kids are going to you know, Jordan's tattoos,
and I love it. You know, they're expressing themselves but still showing that
you can wear natty, but you can also be intelligent, you know,
because you know, we've all been in a situation where you know, you
have to bust your locks to go to get a job, you know,
so it's like there's more, there's more. So yeah, that's what I
would tell That's what I really want to thank you for coming back to talk
the things with me. And as usual, there were so many gems dropped
and laughs had. I know people are tired of hearing me laugh because but
I can't help it. You know, my friends, especially that come on
here, they really bring me joy. And there are people that I respect,
and there are people that I know that others can learn from and need
to learn from. Yeah, definitely right, So I definitely really appreciate you
coming on. And before we go, I want to know if you could
share just anything you want to share with the listeners. No, just thank
you for having me again. I think it's important that voices that don't normally
have a platform get a platform. And you know, your podcast is podcast
is one of my favorites. You know, there's so many people all out
here with Michael Holmes, and it's clear and evident that not only from your
listeners that you are cherished, but from the people that you have on it's
authentic. Authenticity wins. So I'm looking I'm looking forward to season twenty.
I know this is too, so we'll keep pushing it for you. So
thank you for having me. Honestly, yeah, definitely, thank you so
much, you know, because good y'all don't cry exactly. Thank no,
thank you. I appreciate it so much, and I look forward to having
you back every season. I'm saying it right now. Yeah, come back
for every season. Absolutely,