1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:54,520 They do the the the the the the the the the the the the the 2 00:00:55,200 --> 00:01:30,560 the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the 3 00:01:33,000 --> 00:02:21,080 the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the 4 00:02:23,319 --> 00:02:59,719 the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the 5 00:03:00,879 --> 00:03:49,960 the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the 6 00:03:52,159 --> 00:04:47,720 the what's up, y'all? Welcome today. We're gonna have an open discussion. 7 00:04:48,759 --> 00:04:54,800 I don't know if anybody's gonna join that I tagged or that I tried 8 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:58,800 to get the attention of. Of course, I did not expect David like 9 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:03,519 to join. That's okay. The offer still stands of David I would like 10 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:06,920 to debate. Of course, I'm more than happy to have that debate. 11 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,040 A lot of people were saying, well, what happened? What spurred this 12 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:15,519 on? I did a goofy stream last night, joking around. It was 13 00:05:15,519 --> 00:05:17,560 a little edgy, I think for YouTube, so I moved it over to 14 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:25,920 Rockfinn. You can still go watch that as I recounted our events and things 15 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:30,879 that we were doing in Miami, and so we'll go back over here to 16 00:05:30,639 --> 00:05:35,199 YouTube. Ascue me to Twitter, and David Ike said no, night, 17 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:45,279 No Night, constantly recurring maths and Gill Mattray confirm that we live in a 18 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:51,680 virtual reality simulation created by anything but God. Now you'll notice, if you 19 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:58,279 pay attention, that this actually contradicts the very next sentence. So he's laying 20 00:05:58,319 --> 00:06:02,639 out his position that when I did this fourth hour of Alex Friday, that 21 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:10,959 the argument I laid out was just really looking at the structures that we find 22 00:06:10,959 --> 00:06:15,199 in the natural world, you know, Fibonacci sequences in nature, the mathematical 23 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:19,879 proportionality, design, etc. That we find in the world. I wasn't 24 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:25,600 doing, strictly speaking, a design argument or what's called a teleological argument. 25 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,720 I was pointing out that there is design in the world, and that that 26 00:06:30,439 --> 00:06:35,920 I think gives us the idea that mathematics is something more than just a human 27 00:06:36,079 --> 00:06:40,680 social construct or an invention of the human mind. So I was making a 28 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,519 different argument. Although some people probably thought, oh, he's just making the 29 00:06:43,519 --> 00:06:46,639 same old design argument, I was actually kind of making a what's called a 30 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:53,319 divine conceptualist type of argument, the idea that these entities, these mathemamadical principles 31 00:06:53,319 --> 00:06:59,399 and structures, can't just be grounded in the human mind. They can't just 32 00:06:59,399 --> 00:07:06,680 be humans so constructs because they transcend human social limits, social norms, social 33 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:14,319 construction, they are discovered and the best example of that is Mandelbrot sets. 34 00:07:14,399 --> 00:07:17,920 Those were not invented by the human mind, but actually were discovered and could 35 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:24,839 only be really demonstrated and examined when we got computers that had enough processing power 36 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:31,920 to zoom in at really in depth lengths of zooming. And if you go 37 00:07:31,959 --> 00:07:36,040 watch doctor Jason Lyles's presentation on Mandelbrot sets on YouTube, it's really good. 38 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:40,959 I highly recommend it. He explains a lot of this and explains that they're 39 00:07:40,959 --> 00:07:46,319 not just abstract things in the mind, they are real principles and recurring patterns 40 00:07:46,319 --> 00:07:49,560 in nature. And so I just kind of mentioned a few of these things 41 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:56,560 in the talk. It wasn't a high tier philosophical argument in the fourth hour. 42 00:07:56,639 --> 00:08:01,639 It was just kind of laying out basic ideas of how I think mathematics 43 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:09,480 is one of the great ways to illustrate and given an analogy to things that 44 00:08:09,519 --> 00:08:13,920 are not material, that are invariant, that they're not subject to change in 45 00:08:13,959 --> 00:08:20,439 flux. They're discovered, they're not again creations of the human mind. Even 46 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:24,279 though the symbols that we use. They might be created, they might be 47 00:08:24,399 --> 00:08:28,600 interchangeable. I could use the number in Arabic number seven, or I could 48 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:33,320 use the V and two i's the Roman numerals to signify the same concept. 49 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:39,799 So there's an interchangeability when it comes to the symbolic references. But the reference, 50 00:08:41,159 --> 00:08:46,480 the thing that it's referring to, is specific and it's not located anywhere 51 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:50,120 in the physical world. In other words, you don't look under a tree 52 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:54,840 or in a microscope to find the number seven or the Mandelbrot sets that we 53 00:08:54,879 --> 00:09:01,200 talk about, or the law of identity or the laws of logic. They're 54 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:09,399 the types of things that transcend physical limitations and reductionist moves. It's very easy 55 00:09:09,399 --> 00:09:13,480 to demonstrate that. If you didn't watch my debate some years back with stuff 56 00:09:13,519 --> 00:09:18,080 on malnu. The majority of that debate was on that topic. That's still 57 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:24,679 available. You can go find that if you want to watch that. I 58 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:28,480 apologize. There's a lot of allergies out here, allergens, pollen boys on 59 00:09:28,519 --> 00:09:33,399 the attack. These trees be bitches, man, they becoming at me NonStop. 60 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:39,559 The grasses out there too, they're after me. So welcome everybody on 61 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:43,279 YouTube you with it, like and share. I do have the show call 62 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:50,399 in link, which is the Twitter status or nut status Twitter link that you 63 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:54,440 see right here. If you want to call in, use that Twitter link 64 00:09:54,519 --> 00:09:58,000 right there, and you just kind of click into the space your request to 65 00:09:58,039 --> 00:10:03,240 speak and I will bring you on. And now back to David Ike's quote, 66 00:10:03,279 --> 00:10:05,080 what's kind of got this going? And I do have to do a 67 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:09,919 little bit of celebrating because I didn't expect this to occur this weekend. It's 68 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:16,799 my first thing to finally break a million views. So I guess if you're 69 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,000 a content creator, which the term is really annoying. I'm sick of it. 70 00:10:22,039 --> 00:10:26,679 You know, it's a milestone to break one hundred thousand subscribers. We 71 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:31,919 did that a while back, and it's a milestone to break something that gets 72 00:10:31,919 --> 00:10:35,919 a million views. We came really close last year with the in studio interview 73 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:45,600 with Lord Voldemort. We had a three hour spout Saturday broadcast and I think 74 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,679 we got eight hundred and fifty thousand on that, so but we couldn't get 75 00:10:48,919 --> 00:10:54,840 over a million. So thank you to Alex and David Ike for actually breaking 76 00:10:56,559 --> 00:11:03,879 the million barrier on a video. So between David's page and Alex's page it 77 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:09,720 surpassed million anyway. So David says in the first comment that the world does 78 00:11:09,759 --> 00:11:18,799 have all these mathematical, geometrical principles, these abstract structures. The fabric of 79 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:24,399 reality has these mathematical patterns that seem to be there, but they're not anything 80 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:26,919 that we would think of as created by what you call a god. He's 81 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:31,120 saying. He think goes on to say, you're looking for a creator of 82 00:11:31,159 --> 00:11:39,080 the matrix, then try the symbolism the Old Testament, the bloodthirsty tyrant that 83 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:43,919 we're supposed to believe is a God of love. Well, that would contradict 84 00:11:43,919 --> 00:11:48,759 the earlier statement, which is that there's not a God, but there is 85 00:11:48,799 --> 00:11:52,919 a God who created the matrix, but it's a blood thirsty tyrant, imprisoning 86 00:11:54,279 --> 00:11:58,919 God. So the first statement is denying that this reality was created by anything 87 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:03,919 but a god, anything resembling quote God. But there is a God, 88 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,120 and it's the blood thirsty God or the Old Testament, and that's who created 89 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:11,840 the matrix that we inhabit, So that those are actually contradictory statements. But 90 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:16,399 what he's getting out here is, of course the view that we probably all 91 00:12:16,399 --> 00:12:20,759 here know of as gnosticism, the idea that the Old Testament God is a 92 00:12:20,919 --> 00:12:26,639 mean, angry deity, vengeful, prideful, arrogant, etcetera. And then 93 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:31,080 Jesus came as basically the New Testament ancient hippie, right, He's the hippie 94 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:35,360 of the ancient world who just came to He was like, you know, 95 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:39,720 talking a lot of peace and love me. You know. You know it's 96 00:12:39,799 --> 00:12:43,039 if you have like a Boomer uncle that was in Vietnam, you know, 97 00:12:43,399 --> 00:12:48,279 he's gonna be Boomer Garcia. He's going to be telling you about how well 98 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,279 you know, when I was in norm and uh, you know, we 99 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:54,960 I was on a vision quest. You know, I seen Jesus man, 100 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:58,879 I seen him, and he came to over the U the uh, he 101 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,200 came over to hill and and he was told me when I was on my 102 00:13:01,279 --> 00:13:05,080 vision, quiz me. And it's all about peace and lover or whatever. 103 00:13:05,399 --> 00:13:09,879 That's the idea that people have here in this world view of who Jesus is. 104 00:13:11,279 --> 00:13:13,840 Now we go and read the actual text of the Old New Testament, 105 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:20,960 we find it to be very different from Boomer Garcia's conception of Jesus as ancient 106 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:26,960 world's the ancient world's hippie first hippie. We find, of course, and 107 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,559 we've done many talks on this. I'm not going to rehearse all those talks. 108 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:33,519 We find that Jesus in the Book of John many times says that he's 109 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:35,759 the God of the Old Testament, that he's the one that was at Mount 110 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:41,559 Sinai talking to Moses and giving the law. He's the one who was eternally 111 00:13:41,639 --> 00:13:46,240 generated of his Father, the God of the Old Testament, God the Father. 112 00:13:46,879 --> 00:13:52,080 He's the one who accompanied the Israelites into the Promised Land. He's the 113 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:58,879 one who appeared to Abraham and was with Abraham in Genesis twelve fifteen seventeen twenty 114 00:13:58,879 --> 00:14:05,960 two. So very contrary to what's actually in the Bible, which David Ike 115 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:09,440 seems to be taking an issue with, because he does mention the Old Testament 116 00:14:09,159 --> 00:14:13,559 and in the New Testament God of love. This is really the ancient view 117 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:18,919 of a figure named Marcion. Marcion is an early second century heretic who said 118 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:24,240 something very close to this, and he believed that the Old Testament God was 119 00:14:24,279 --> 00:14:28,360 this wrathful, evil deity, and that corresponds to what Gnostics ended up calling 120 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:37,519 the Demiurge the Demiurge is this lower blind, sort of bumbling creator God who 121 00:14:37,559 --> 00:14:43,840 imprisons beings in the physical flesh domain that we inhabit. And since the world 122 00:14:43,919 --> 00:14:50,600 is kind of askew because it's a skance, because we got some people with 123 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:54,600 you know, eyes that go be going over here and the other eye be 124 00:14:54,679 --> 00:14:58,200 going over there, you know what I'm saying. And we got some people 125 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,960 with a micro pen you know what I'm saying, a nub, so to 126 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:05,399 speak. And we got some people born with three tight eyes through Okay, 127 00:15:05,519 --> 00:15:09,519 you know what I'm saying. That means that the Creator God was then thus 128 00:15:09,639 --> 00:15:18,000 therefore a bumbling, old crotchety man who couldn't understand what he was doing. 129 00:15:20,039 --> 00:15:24,960 I'm joking, but I'm not. But seriously, they actually will argue that 130 00:15:26,879 --> 00:15:33,480 you got you know, slow boys. That has to be the bumbling joke 131 00:15:33,519 --> 00:15:37,679 of a so called creator God. Now let's talk about what I think is 132 00:15:37,919 --> 00:15:43,600 first of all, the main strength. I don't think the position ultimately has 133 00:15:43,679 --> 00:15:46,799 strength, But let's talk about two. What are the two reasons that most 134 00:15:46,919 --> 00:15:54,480 people think that there might be something to this gnostic Marcianite type of view. 135 00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:02,279 I think the first and probably the strong thing they'll point to that draws people 136 00:16:02,279 --> 00:16:07,960 in is theodysy. The odyssey is the idea that we have to give an 137 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:11,720 account for the existence of evil. How given the existence of God, or 138 00:16:11,759 --> 00:16:17,600 a God, would we give an account for the rebellion against him that exists 139 00:16:17,759 --> 00:16:22,559 in his creator order? And so the attempt to make sense of this is 140 00:16:22,559 --> 00:16:30,120 called theodicy. And I think that the strength the relative strength. I don't 141 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,559 think that it's actually that coherent of a position, but the relative strength of 142 00:16:33,559 --> 00:16:38,039 Gnoscissism is in their attempt to give an account for the existence of evil. 143 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:45,080 Now, their account is just simply that there's a lot of crappy things going 144 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,559 on, a lot of terrible things, things that I won't name since we're 145 00:16:48,559 --> 00:16:52,799 on YouTube. You can imagine the types of things. Children have developed, 146 00:16:52,799 --> 00:16:56,960 cancer and so forth, on on and even worse. Therefore, this whole 147 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:06,200 reality must be some sort of prison simulation, a deception, a cloak of 148 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:12,079 maya pulled over our senses to dupe us, to deceive us, a dream 149 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:22,359 reality, a simulation. Thus the popularity nowadays in our tech dominated world of 150 00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:26,599 simulation and theory, which if you don't know, I'm sure many of you 151 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:32,680 do. But if you don't. This is very close to ancient Platonism or 152 00:17:32,759 --> 00:17:38,000 Gnosticism. Now, before the super dorks jump in to tell me that Platinus 153 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:42,279 wrote against the Gnostics, I'm very well aware of that. I know the 154 00:17:42,279 --> 00:17:48,200 difference between Neoplatonism and Gnosticism. The basics are still the same, though. 155 00:17:48,559 --> 00:17:52,640 The real difference is the Gnostics tended. And by the way, there's a 156 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,359 zillion different Gnostics sects. So first of all, we had to get rid 157 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:59,759 of the idea that there's one Gnosticism that's this sort of ancient mystic tradition, 158 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,279 and then there's the evil, mean, persecuting Orthodoxy. That's not true. 159 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,319 If you read Ernaeus's Against Heresies, which is the earliest account that we have 160 00:18:08,039 --> 00:18:11,720 of the many Gnostic sects of the first and second century up to one eight 161 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:18,440 eight, the first two or three inner pages details dozens and dozens and dozens 162 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:25,599 of these groups and their particular beliefs. There's the Carpocrationans, there's the Valentinians, 163 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:30,519 there's the Sethians, there's the Canites, there's the Ebionites. On no, 164 00:18:30,519 --> 00:18:34,359 no, no, on many, many, many dozens of variations on 165 00:18:36,599 --> 00:18:42,279 the ideas of quote Gnosticism or gnosis, the idea that the real way to 166 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:52,039 be saved is not through a public liturgical worship service and church and sacraments, 167 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,480 not through salvation by faith in Christ and living a Christian life, et cetera. 168 00:18:57,039 --> 00:19:04,920 No salvation is a secret knowledge or gnosis. For example, I'm sure 169 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:11,000 everybody's heard of freemasonry. I'm not saying that freemasonry is identical to ancient gnosticism, 170 00:19:11,039 --> 00:19:17,440 but it bears similarities, such as the idea that you could, in 171 00:19:17,559 --> 00:19:22,759 masonry, for example, learn certain keywords, phrases, pastcodes, secret names 172 00:19:22,799 --> 00:19:27,079 of God, jabulan blah blah blah, and that this would give you mystical 173 00:19:27,079 --> 00:19:34,079 insight, allow you to climb some ladder of success and perhaps other initiates or 174 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:38,319 other groups in the afterlife. You're getting some sort of secret that would be 175 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:42,519 something akin to what we're talking about with ancient gnosticism, where you might be 176 00:19:42,559 --> 00:19:48,799 initiated into a group, you might undergo various rituals, various ceremonies, and 177 00:19:48,839 --> 00:19:55,519 then again they varied in the actual expression in all kinds of extremes. Some 178 00:19:55,559 --> 00:20:00,200 of the gnostics, according to urin Ass, would be very ascetic. Their 179 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:07,319 approach so almost something like a brahmin or a yogi. Other Gnostics believe that 180 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:12,160 you should engage in all kinds of wild orgies and licentious parties. So a 181 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:18,440 much more Antiinomian approach, anti law approach to initiation, so to speak, 182 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:26,799 and all a manner of spectrum in between constitutes the ancient quote gnostic positions. 183 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,640 So there's not one gnosticism. That's one thing we have to get out of 184 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:37,319 the way. And so anybody today who is claiming to be a Gnostic is 185 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,839 not in any kind of historical lineage. That's one point we really want to 186 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:45,000 stress, because a lot of people want to give the impression that they have 187 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,920 this ancient mystic knowledge. For example, when Alistair Crowley, who was influenced 188 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,759 by a Gnostics, when he created a couple of his different cults and sex, 189 00:20:52,799 --> 00:21:00,720 the most famous twentieth century Satanist, Crowley said that he wanted astic Catholic 190 00:21:00,799 --> 00:21:07,359 Church to help draw people away from the existing public visible Catholic Church, and 191 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:11,039 so he invented a list of Gnostic saints. He came up with a kind 192 00:21:11,079 --> 00:21:15,720 of pseudo Eucharist that was based around menstrual fluids and these kinds of things. 193 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:18,720 And this was really just kind of a halfway house to get you into the 194 00:21:18,759 --> 00:21:25,200 more hardcore sex magic that he had going in some of his other groups and 195 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:29,200 cults. And again we see parallels with some of the ancient Gnostic groups who 196 00:21:29,279 --> 00:21:32,920 operated in a Krollian type of way that they seem to work that way. 197 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:38,319 There's a really long discussion I think by Irnaeus have a guy named Marcus who 198 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,799 was a magician who seems to be very close to the kind of thing that 199 00:21:41,839 --> 00:21:45,599 Croly was trying to set up. If I remember, I remember thinking that 200 00:21:45,599 --> 00:21:52,480 that chapter was very very closely parallel to what you read about with Alistair Crowley, 201 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,920 and I remember the name of his sacked, but he just talks about 202 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,319 him as this guy named Marcus, I think, who had basically a ritual 203 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:07,880 magic, and he's classed amongst the many Gnostic groups anyway. So their key 204 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:14,839 argument, their draw is they think that the best account for this world and 205 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,759 for the problem of evil is to just simply say that the world is evil. 206 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:25,359 Metaphysical reality itself is what evil is. And so salvation is some form 207 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:32,000 of knowledge, some form of initiat initiatory knowledge which tells you that and then 208 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:37,400 the project of quote salvation becomes in some way leaving or escaping or transcending this 209 00:22:37,519 --> 00:22:42,279 reality. And yes, you can see that there's obviously pretty close parallels with 210 00:22:42,519 --> 00:22:48,720 Far Eastern religions as well, Buddhism, Hinduism, et cetera. And they 211 00:22:48,759 --> 00:22:52,480 also have kind of similar ideologies. And some scholars and history historians of religion 212 00:22:52,519 --> 00:23:00,160 will trace Gnostic influence from Far Eastern Brahmin type influence or something like this. 213 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,599 The Gnostic influence, by the way, does not go away after the second 214 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,039 century. They continue on in various groups and sects, and they have a 215 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:18,400 resurgence. If you don't know, we covered a gigantic historical scholarly treatise by 216 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:23,920 a famous English historian named Malcolm Lambert. He wrote a six to seven hundred 217 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:29,200 page book called Medieval Heresy that we did an entire lecture through a few years 218 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:34,759 ago, and in that text he detailed the resurgence of Gnosticism from the Bogamills 219 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:40,400 in the Middle Ages, and the Boga Mills brought what would become Catholicism. 220 00:23:40,839 --> 00:23:47,480 The Cathari the most famous medieval Gnostic sect. The Kathari ended up being pretty 221 00:23:47,519 --> 00:23:55,039 successful. They took several castles in France and set up a kind of rival 222 00:23:55,319 --> 00:23:59,960 kingdom church, which again sounds a little odd because well, aren't they gnostic? 223 00:24:00,079 --> 00:24:02,920 Why are they? Well, look, not everything has to be consistent 224 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,880 in these positions. Okay, So just because you're a person who thinks that 225 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:12,319 you have a mystical secret sect doesn't necessarily mean that you can't you start stacking 226 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:18,359 castles. And that's precisely what happened with the cathar Eye, and there were 227 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:25,400 a lot of medieval crackdowns on them, and they posed the most significant challenge 228 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:30,359 to the medieval Church in the West. Ironically, the Bogamills themselves, who 229 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:36,400 were the kind of lineage of the early Gnostics. They were coming from Bulgaria 230 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:41,559 to the West, and they brought their version of Gnosticism to the West, 231 00:24:41,599 --> 00:24:45,160 and that became cathari or the perfect, the perfecti, those who are perfect 232 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:51,039 and beyond the need of the church, sacraments, etc. They had a 233 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,960 rival structure and just a bunch of damned castles and fortresses. I mean, 234 00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:00,359 it's pretty wild. If you read Malcolm Lambert's book, I also have lecture 235 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,200 to that text if you don't want to sit and read a gigantic technical six 236 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:10,079 to seven hundred page Medieval Heresy Manual. You can go read my lecture, 237 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:11,880 you go listen to my lectures on my channel. I think I titled that 238 00:25:12,079 --> 00:25:18,559 talk Medieval Heresy, so it should be easy to find anyway. So back 239 00:25:18,599 --> 00:25:22,240 to David Ike's comment then, and then we're going to open it up here 240 00:25:22,279 --> 00:25:26,519 in a minute. I'm going to give a few summarized critiques before we open 241 00:25:26,559 --> 00:25:30,240 it up, so we know what position I'm coming from. And then again, 242 00:25:30,279 --> 00:25:36,960 today's topics are somewhat specific. I'm going to open it up for discussing 243 00:25:37,599 --> 00:25:45,440 the issue of simulation theory, gnosticism, platonism, neo platonism, the David 244 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:51,799 Ike perspective, if you can make part sounds with your hand and with your 245 00:25:52,319 --> 00:25:56,880 undergarm, that is also welcomed. Because in some of the gnostic views, 246 00:25:57,039 --> 00:26:00,079 they actually talk about this world being farted out out by the deity. So 247 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:04,440 you live in the fart world. This is the fart dimension, this is 248 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:11,640 the a bobo dimension, meaning that this dimension was an abortion abration. Those 249 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:19,440 are again actual Gnostic ideas about this reality, this existence. And let's see, 250 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,960 I oh, I had one other comment that I wanted to make about 251 00:26:22,319 --> 00:26:27,359 the appeal of nostos So the first appeal is that for many people it's a 252 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:34,559 convincing theodicy or convincing account of the problem of evil. The second appeal is 253 00:26:34,599 --> 00:26:41,599 that it often finds adherents amongst those who go down the conspiracy rabbit hole. 254 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:48,039 So people who are interested in questions of a philosophical nature, people who will 255 00:26:48,079 --> 00:26:51,960 want to know, you know, what did Plato say? What did Aristol 256 00:26:52,079 --> 00:26:56,640 say? I want to know what the examined life is, as Socrates discussed. 257 00:26:56,279 --> 00:27:02,880 They begin to ask questions. Many times those people ask questions about politics, 258 00:27:03,039 --> 00:27:07,000 geopolitics, who runs the world, what happened on the Big nine day? 259 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:11,680 The day of the Big nine event? We start asking those kinds of 260 00:27:11,759 --> 00:27:14,799 questions. I asked those kinds of questions. I was an undergrad. I 261 00:27:14,839 --> 00:27:18,960 was asking those kinds of questions taking philosophy classes. I want to know how 262 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:22,960 who's running the world, what's going on? What's the Is it the banking 263 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,200 elite? Is it the corporate elite? Is it the Democrats? Is it 264 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:32,799 the Republicans? Is it? The illuminate? Confirm And then for some people 265 00:27:32,839 --> 00:27:36,680 the rabbit hole continues and you begin to think, well, maybe there's this 266 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:42,480 all pervading, all powerful group that runs it all, and where are they 267 00:27:42,519 --> 00:27:48,559 taking their orders from. Well, then we're led to theories that will maybe 268 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,279 they're the puppet masters of the puppet masters, and who's the puppet masters of 269 00:27:52,319 --> 00:27:59,000 those puppet masters, And then we're led to far Eastern views. You can 270 00:27:59,039 --> 00:28:03,400 begin to see how we might branch over into that because we wait, a 271 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,640 minute, I've been lied to about the Democrats and the Republicans and conservatives and 272 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:11,119 liberals, and I've been lied to about coke and pepsi and the wars and 273 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:17,920 the foreign entanglements and the dollar and the based Fiat system, and maybe I've 274 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:27,680 been lied to about fundamental reality itself. Dude Guss or whatever man this kind 275 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:33,240 of stuff. And then we're into questioning the royal family. And maybe the 276 00:28:33,319 --> 00:28:37,920 royal family are not from this Earth. Maybe they are from Middle Earth, 277 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:44,400 maybe they are from wherever. And then we think, well, maybe the 278 00:28:44,519 --> 00:28:51,359 Shamans perhaps had it right. I'm gonna go do my vision quest in Peru 279 00:28:51,519 --> 00:28:56,319 and the Brujos are gonna give me their bruhaha, and I'm gonna trip bowels 280 00:28:56,359 --> 00:29:08,000 and I'm gonna see reality itself, said documentary GMT spirit molecul Right now our 281 00:29:08,559 --> 00:29:14,559 Amazon wish list buying david iBooks has led us to Peru, and we're tripping 282 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:19,079 balls and we're hunched over in a fetal position looking into the essence of the 283 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:25,279 universe, and we see the lizards. I'm just being silly, and we 284 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:33,319 see the lizard nature reality. Man. Now for that type of person, 285 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,640 and I'm not joking, I mean this is a sizeable portion of the population. 286 00:29:37,759 --> 00:29:45,480 Now, many people have gone into the domain of DMT acid trip by 287 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:53,200 Hiawathka Brew, hose, Shamanism, on on and on, and now they 288 00:29:53,240 --> 00:30:00,359 think we have seen the true reality. Now, I don't deny that those 289 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:07,480 types of experiences and trips can be very intense, can be even spiritual, 290 00:30:07,519 --> 00:30:11,079 can open up portals and so forth. I've had acid trips, I've had 291 00:30:11,119 --> 00:30:15,240 bad trips, so I understand what it's like. There's also the possibility that 292 00:30:15,319 --> 00:30:22,079 we should consider that perhaps those are also potentialities to delusion, that we can 293 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:29,200 open ourselves up to the potentiality to being deluded via those experiences, and that 294 00:30:29,279 --> 00:30:37,799 we might think we're getting all of this download of esoteric, transcendental spirit world 295 00:30:37,839 --> 00:30:45,079 wisdom, but maybe it's also deceptive. Maybe we're being told things via the 296 00:30:45,279 --> 00:30:49,839 entities, via the gods. And you'll notice that we've done many videos where 297 00:30:49,839 --> 00:30:56,839 we analyze the DMT trips and the people's experiences with the beings and the entities. 298 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:02,720 They just seem to parallel all of the ancient religious experiences that people have 299 00:31:03,079 --> 00:31:10,480 in shamanic and pagan religious traditions. And lo and behold every idiot who goes 300 00:31:10,519 --> 00:31:15,079 to Peru when he's twenty and has a trip and discovers the solves the world 301 00:31:15,119 --> 00:31:21,400 and figures out we're all one man. That big revelation that he thinks is 302 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:26,599 so revolutionary just actually turns out to be every ancient pagan religion's basic idea that 303 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:32,519 we're all one monism. And so we find out, oh, actually, 304 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:41,920 these trips and revelations aren't that revelatory. They're pretty ancient, pretty standard, 305 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:48,319 And for those who go into studying philosophy and metaphysics and so forth, they're 306 00:31:48,359 --> 00:31:56,160 actually pretty low tier, right, because it's not that difficult to figure out 307 00:31:56,200 --> 00:32:00,160 and philosophically suss out that you can't say all reality is one. It doesn't 308 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:06,880 make any it's an absurdity, and it makes knowledge. And when I say 309 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,079 knowledge, I don't mean knowing a thing and or having a proposition in your 310 00:32:10,119 --> 00:32:15,119 head, but giving an account for knowledge justified true belief. It makes it 311 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:22,759 impossible if all reality were one and the distinctions that we experience are all illusions. 312 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:30,000 And typically what happens is somebody's adopting a contradictory, irrational, illogical worldview. 313 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:31,759 Now you might think, yeah, but that's just the way it is, 314 00:32:31,839 --> 00:32:37,640 dude. Reality just is fundamentally irrational. It's not logical, it's incoherent. 315 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:42,559 It's mystical. And I can bypass all your logics, all your facts 316 00:32:42,599 --> 00:32:45,440 and your logics. I can bypass all that by my mystical shortcut. Ha 317 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:52,519 ha ha. I'm more enlightened. I went through the ego death. But 318 00:32:52,599 --> 00:33:00,480 you're just an idiot. You're a fool. Why because you've adopted positions that 319 00:33:00,599 --> 00:33:07,359 make knowing anything and giving an account of anything impossible. And I'll talk about 320 00:33:07,359 --> 00:33:08,680 a couple of those, and then we're going to open it up. For 321 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:15,200 example, the laws of logic are not things that we just make up to 322 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:19,799 make things make sense their discoveries. For example, the law of identity is 323 00:33:19,839 --> 00:33:24,960 so fundamental to the possibility of making sentences and predicating that if you deny the 324 00:33:25,039 --> 00:33:30,079 law of identity, knowledge would no longer be possible. You could no longer 325 00:33:30,119 --> 00:33:34,400 make sentences, because it to be able to say that this is that thing 326 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:38,039 and not that thing requires the law of identity. That means to predicate in 327 00:33:38,079 --> 00:33:44,240 a sentence subject, verb, now, and et cetera. I need to 328 00:33:44,279 --> 00:33:45,759 be able to have the law of identity. I also need the law of 329 00:33:46,079 --> 00:33:52,240 non contradiction, that something can be that thing and not another thing, and 330 00:33:52,319 --> 00:33:58,839 something can't be that thing and another thing. A is not equal to non 331 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:04,519 a, A equals a. You see how these things go together. They 332 00:34:04,599 --> 00:34:08,039 kind of form the basis not just of nerdy logic stuff that professors are doing 333 00:34:08,079 --> 00:34:14,159 in collegist they're the basis for how we speak. You couldn't have grammar if 334 00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:17,519 you didn't have basic logic. They go together. So to say something, 335 00:34:17,519 --> 00:34:22,559 for example, as absurd as all reality is one or all things are one, 336 00:34:24,599 --> 00:34:29,239 will first of all, be to make a statement that you don't actually 337 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,840 even know that's true. That's called a universal statement. How do you know, 338 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:37,639 as a finite, singular individual, that all reality is one? Now, 339 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:42,039 perhaps it is, I don't think it is. Perhaps it is, 340 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:47,280 But how would you know that you're a finite individual. Ah, well, 341 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:52,440 you say I possess God consciousness. How are we supposed to believe or know 342 00:34:52,519 --> 00:34:58,039 that you possess God consciousness? How? What is God consciousness? Anyway? 343 00:34:58,599 --> 00:35:05,679 By the way, David Ike doesn't believe in God. God is God consciousness, 344 00:35:06,599 --> 00:35:12,000 and he says things like consciousness having experience of itself in the here and 345 00:35:12,039 --> 00:35:16,719 the now. Again, very generic, unclear, ambiguous phrases. What does 346 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:27,039 that even mean? Now, let's think of a couple other things that demonstrate 347 00:35:27,079 --> 00:35:32,199 that this is not a possible position to hold. If all reality was essentially 348 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:37,920 something deceptive and illusory, my coming to know that or to believe that would 349 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:43,920 also be part of the veil of illusion and deception. So I couldn't even 350 00:35:44,039 --> 00:35:49,880 know that all reality is illusory. If in fact, all reality is illusory, 351 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:54,760 I would be trapped in an inescapable illusion box that I could not get 352 00:35:54,760 --> 00:36:00,320 out of, because anything I think or come to know as true is also 353 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:06,840 part of the big deception. You see. Now, that's the most basic, 354 00:36:07,159 --> 00:36:10,400 simple critique of this kind of a position, and you can expand that 355 00:36:10,519 --> 00:36:15,880 into critiquing the ideas of simulation theory. Well, to say that something or 356 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:21,880 with all reality is a quote. Simulation presupposes that there's a real reality, 357 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:27,239 a non simulated reality with which to contrast it. But you don't have any 358 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,360 experience of that, so you don't know that that exists. You have no 359 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:37,960 basis to think that there is the non simulation reality contrasted to and that stands 360 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:46,480 against and judges the simulated reality. Furthermore, how could you get to it? 361 00:36:46,519 --> 00:36:51,360 How could you know it? If you're in this reality, you see, 362 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,000 you would have to leave it, go to it. Perhaps that's what 363 00:36:54,039 --> 00:37:00,639 the person thinks when they do some sort of a drug experience, something like 364 00:37:00,679 --> 00:37:02,119 that. Oh I did the DMT. I went to the realm of the 365 00:37:02,159 --> 00:37:06,880 clockwork elves. The clockwork elves told me, Bro, what's up. We've 366 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,519 been waiting for you. Welcome to the real reality. Ha yo, we've 367 00:37:10,519 --> 00:37:15,239 been waiting for your dog. By the way, you've been here for five 368 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:19,679 minutes. Get your ass out of here, back to the fake reality. 369 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:24,000 I mean, how would you know, first of all, that the clockwork 370 00:37:24,039 --> 00:37:30,920 elves weren't just another part of the simulation. You couldn't you. There's no 371 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:37,679 way to know that. Now. More absurd than this, too, by 372 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:42,639 the way, is the idea that there's a simulation and that the evil God 373 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:46,880 created the simulation? Well, what is it? Now? You're just saying 374 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:52,559 that, do you do believe in God and creation? But it's a trap, 375 00:37:52,639 --> 00:37:57,760 it's gnosticism. And what does that even mean? That there's an evil 376 00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:04,039 God who created the fake simulation? Is he also a part of the simulation? 377 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,480 Is it simulators all the way up? That's an infinite regress that would 378 00:38:07,559 --> 00:38:14,960 lead to absurdity. How do you know that there's a God that created the 379 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:19,159 simulation or a being or an angel or an entity or an alien or a 380 00:38:19,199 --> 00:38:24,079 demiurge. What's the justification for that belief? Why ought we think that that's 381 00:38:24,119 --> 00:38:28,880 true? Perhaps it is true? And this is what philosophy does. This 382 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:35,079 is what epistemology does. Pistemology says, what are the reasons for that belief? 383 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:37,360 And we'll say that maybe it's true, Maybe it is true that we 384 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:43,039 live in a gnostic simulation, but we need to know the good reasons for 385 00:38:43,159 --> 00:38:47,519 that belief. And just saying that you had a DMT experience or that you 386 00:38:47,639 --> 00:38:54,119 talk to a African shaman named Credo Mutwah, that's not a good enough basis 387 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:59,800 to know that worldview is true. That's why philosophy steps in to help us 388 00:39:00,119 --> 00:39:04,679 have good arguments and good reasons for our beliefs, not just any old reasons 389 00:39:04,679 --> 00:39:08,920 for our beliefs. Let me give another example. Most of us, i'm 390 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:13,320 sure, probably wash our hands after we go t T, after we go 391 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:19,719 potty. And if I were to ask you, why do you wash your 392 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:23,559 hands after you go T T after you go potty, and you were to 393 00:39:23,599 --> 00:39:29,599 say, well, I've noticed that every time I wash my hands, bitcoin 394 00:39:29,639 --> 00:39:32,519 goes up. So I wash my hands after going potty because it makes bitcoin 395 00:39:32,559 --> 00:39:37,599 go up. That is a reason that you wash your hands. But it's 396 00:39:37,639 --> 00:39:42,480 not a good reason for washing your hands. Do you see how that's a 397 00:39:42,599 --> 00:39:47,920 bad reason for something that is a reasonable practice. So it's not just giving 398 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:55,320 any reasons for epistemic justification. It's giving good, coherent, logical reasons for 399 00:39:55,760 --> 00:40:00,079 the belief that you have. So, if you're gonna bring to me a 400 00:40:00,119 --> 00:40:06,480 gigantic metaphysical claim, a big, huge metaphysical narrative about all of reality, 401 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:15,000 such as the idea that we all inhabit a vast matrix computer simulation like the 402 00:40:15,039 --> 00:40:22,719 Wakowskis movie trilogy, I need good reasons to believe that beyond just your personal 403 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:32,159 subjective drug experience of a Peruvian shaman or cradle mutwah or whoever. That's why 404 00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:44,840 philosophy and worldviews come into this. Now a couple more points on the contrasting 405 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,639 world views, and then we'll open it up. Here is my little famous 406 00:40:47,679 --> 00:40:57,760 whiteboard, white boy whiteboard. Here's a handful of five or six things that 407 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:05,800 characterizes the Nosta position, and then a handful of things in the same categories 408 00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:12,400 that characterize the logos Christian perspective. So, if you think about gnosticism and 409 00:41:12,519 --> 00:41:17,519 has the tendency to be morally an epistemically relativist, meaning that there's not a 410 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:28,199 coherent moral ethical stance in gnosticism because it's anti physical. It's an attempt to 411 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:35,719 transcend this reality. It really doesn't care anything about right and wrong. Many 412 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:40,679 gnostics love to tout love. We believe in love, might, love might, 413 00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:50,119 Okay, what does that even mean? Croleyan love, skittles, love, 414 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,199 I mean, what does that even mean? There's no content to it. 415 00:41:53,199 --> 00:42:00,519 It's just empty, ambiguous terminology, phrases, emotions, experiences. There's 416 00:42:00,559 --> 00:42:06,519 not a coherent idea of actually what love is. And so both knowledge claims 417 00:42:06,519 --> 00:42:13,280 and moral claims in gnosticism tend to be relativistic and subjectivist. Now, they 418 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:17,119 may not believe that all of their beliefs are relativistic. They might think that 419 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:23,079 it's objectively true that gnosticism is the case, it's the one true thing, 420 00:42:23,199 --> 00:42:29,280 or the ultimate gnosis or whatever that we got attain to. But you're not 421 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:35,920 going to typically find a coherent objectivist account of why it's wrong to do bad 422 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:39,920 things, why it's wrong to hurt people or to steal from people. After 423 00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:46,079 all, if this reality is merely a simulation, then it's no more ethically 424 00:42:47,519 --> 00:42:52,719 a stain on my soul to take from someone or to delete them than it 425 00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:58,320 is to delete them in a video game. It's not immoral to delete my 426 00:42:58,559 --> 00:43:02,199 NPC characters in a video Well, then maybe it's not anymore immoral to delete 427 00:43:02,199 --> 00:43:10,039 people. If reality is a simulation, why would that not follow. Secondly, 428 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:17,440 it is an ahistorical by necessity worldview. History is just part of the 429 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:22,000 trap, part of the prison, part of the simulation. And if that's 430 00:43:22,039 --> 00:43:24,960 the case, then my history, my past, the world's history, the 431 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:30,880 world's past, my nation's history, none of those things matter. They have 432 00:43:30,079 --> 00:43:37,239 no telos so gnosticism, because this world is a prison. Its only purpose 433 00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:43,599 is to be a prison, and so beyond that it is purposeless. It's 434 00:43:43,639 --> 00:43:49,320 a disteleological position, especially for this reality and for this world. So it 435 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,559 is ahistorical. It is against your tradition, your heritage, your family, 436 00:43:52,599 --> 00:43:58,039 all of those things that we think are good things. And actually, oftentimes 437 00:43:58,119 --> 00:44:01,679 David I even says this. He said things like, you're not your body, 438 00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:06,199 you're not your family, you're not your history. Where we heard that 439 00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:09,960 kind of stuff again, Gnostics say this. The star seeds say this when 440 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:15,480 we were playing The Hood Healer, right, the Hood Healer, the dude 441 00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:20,400 that talks about a moon beaver. The moon is a beaver. Now the 442 00:44:20,559 --> 00:44:24,320 moon is a beaver. You are a star seed. Your family is not 443 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:30,400 your family. You had got thrown into this reality. Same principle. Here, 444 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:38,239 my life, my time, my history, my past essentially become meaningless, 445 00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:46,440 worthless, relative ezed and something I need to escape from. It's anti 446 00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:53,199 philosophical in the sense that it doesn't it's not concerned with epistemology, ethics, 447 00:44:53,199 --> 00:44:59,880 and metaphysics. It's an anti philosophic position that wants to run from logic, 448 00:45:00,559 --> 00:45:05,840 deny logic, because things like laws of logic, things like then diagrams, 449 00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:10,280 even things like mathematics, numbers, universals, those are all elements of the 450 00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:15,360 prison structure. In the Gnostic world view, it'd be like a prisoner sitting 451 00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:22,440 around being amazed at the prison bars and wow, the look at the I 452 00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:27,000 don't know, elemental structure of the metals that make up the prison bar. 453 00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:32,480 Who cares? You want to get out of there? And so gnosticism, 454 00:45:32,519 --> 00:45:37,800 ironically, if it were consistent, and again, most of these people, 455 00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:43,039 because they are illogical and irrational from the outset, they're not concerned with being 456 00:45:43,079 --> 00:45:47,239 consistent. They will immediately adopt contradictory views and they don't have a problem saying 457 00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:52,639 that. So this world is evil, this world is something to flee from, 458 00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:57,920 it is something to ascend out of. It's a prison. Oh but 459 00:45:58,119 --> 00:46:06,119 just love, might well go love love each other? Might Why isn't love 460 00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:10,639 part of the simulation as well? On what basis do I say that it's 461 00:46:10,679 --> 00:46:15,239 not? If it's not? In other words, if love isn't part of 462 00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:22,679 the simulation and low vibrational frequencies are what we're in, how am I supposed 463 00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:29,599 to know that that's the thing I need to get to maybe the lowest vibrational 464 00:46:29,639 --> 00:46:32,119 frequency is the portal out of this dimension, right, You see what I'm 465 00:46:32,119 --> 00:46:36,400 saying, Like it's just arbitrary, Like why don't I need to be the 466 00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:42,880 most evil mofo to escape through the lowest vibrational frequency portal to get out of 467 00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,199 there? You see what I'm saying. It's just absurd. It's all arbitrary 468 00:46:45,199 --> 00:46:47,920 and at Hawk. And it's okay to be arbitrary at Hawk because it's a 469 00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:57,159 position that is inherently anti philosophical and thus irrational. It is not concerned with 470 00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,280 reasoning and rationality to be consistent. And by the way, I don't mean 471 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:07,599 by that rationalism. And if you talk to these people, they will always 472 00:47:07,599 --> 00:47:10,480 say you're being a rationalist. Oh I thought you didn't like the Enlightenment. 473 00:47:10,679 --> 00:47:17,440 Oh no, no, no. Reasoning and rationality are tools that men have. 474 00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:25,119 They're necessary, good tools for operating in this world. Using your reason 475 00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:30,440 is what builds bridges and builds ships and airplanes and all these things that we 476 00:47:30,559 --> 00:47:37,559 use. There's nothing bad about reasoning and the use of rationality. Rationalism is 477 00:47:37,599 --> 00:47:44,239 another thing which is a sort of worshiping of the reasoning process, and by 478 00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:50,840 the way, you could argue that rationalism is also another type of gnostic enterprise, 479 00:47:51,599 --> 00:48:01,079 because rationalists ultimately worship their own gnosis knowledge. Remember Paul says to Timothy, 480 00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:07,599 beware of those who teach the gnosis falsely so called, the knowledge falsely 481 00:48:07,679 --> 00:48:13,519 so called. So this leads to the last point here, which is that 482 00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:19,159 this position, this worldview, is ultimately an incoherent worldview, and thus we 483 00:48:19,199 --> 00:48:22,079 don't know if it's the case. There's no way to give an account for 484 00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:28,119 justify the idea that all reality is a simulation. To know that all reality 485 00:48:28,159 --> 00:48:31,559 is simulation, to know that there's something outside of the simulation, there's just 486 00:48:31,679 --> 00:48:39,880 no basis or way to justify those assertions. In contrast to that, you 487 00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:46,159 would note that our worldview is objective when it comes to knowledge claims and moral 488 00:48:46,199 --> 00:48:54,519 claims. We believe that there is a pro history view. God is not 489 00:48:54,639 --> 00:49:00,239 the opposite of the world, he's not the opposite of history. It has 490 00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:05,360 both good and bad things happening, But ultimately we believe the history is moving 491 00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,239 towards atilos, towards a purpose. And so every event in your life, 492 00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:12,440 every day in your life, has meaning and has purpose. It's not something 493 00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:16,440 to flee from. It's not a prison, it's not a trap. It's 494 00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:23,320 something for you to use as a tool as well to better yourself. So 495 00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:28,679 we're not trying to run from this reality and flee the world. And it's 496 00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:32,199 we're prohistory, where pro tilos, pro purpose, pro intentionality, pro design, 497 00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:37,159 we're pro philosophy because we think that life has meaning, life has value. 498 00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:43,719 We should flourish, We should be able to figure out tools and reasoning 499 00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:45,599 and logic in this world, the principles that help us to live better. 500 00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:54,719 We believe that reality and rationality are good things, and that the world is 501 00:49:54,719 --> 00:50:00,880 governed not by irrationality, evil and chaos, but by logos. That fundamental 502 00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:09,159 reality at a universal level is coherent, it is rational, and that rationality, 503 00:50:09,199 --> 00:50:14,199 that coherence, we would say, is not ultimately something impersonal, some 504 00:50:14,519 --> 00:50:20,960 abstract force, but it's rather personal the divine person of the logos, and 505 00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:23,960 thus our worldview, we would argue, is a coherent one. It doesn't 506 00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:28,679 answer every problem, but no worldview can answer every problem, so that would 507 00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:32,480 essentially be an impossible task. Right, Well, your worldview doesn't it solve 508 00:50:32,599 --> 00:50:37,239 every single problem, so it's not true. Okay, Well, narcissism is 509 00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:42,480 far worse. It solves no problems. It just says, yeah, everything 510 00:50:42,519 --> 00:50:47,000 sucks, let's flee this dimension. Man, What does that solve? What 511 00:50:47,039 --> 00:50:52,880 does that actually do? It doesn't do anything other than tell you to, 512 00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:58,280 you know, meditate and leave this reality, do some yoga, bro, 513 00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:02,719 you know, take some drugs, or perhaps as some of the new I'm 514 00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:06,400 not saying that David I teaches this, but some of the New Age teachers, 515 00:51:06,559 --> 00:51:09,599 like doesn't til Swan say that it's no big deal if you unlive. 516 00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:16,480 I'm not saying she's telling people to do that. I'm saying that this is 517 00:51:16,519 --> 00:51:22,599 a controversial teaching that some of the gnostic New ag types have, And I'm 518 00:51:22,599 --> 00:51:29,239 just pointing out that there's nothing that prevents a person from going to that conclusion 519 00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:34,719 in this worldview. Why not if this reality is a simulation, there's nothing 520 00:51:35,519 --> 00:51:40,079 illogical about that. Now. I don't think you should do those things. 521 00:51:42,119 --> 00:51:46,360 I think that would be kind of crazy. It would be evil. But 522 00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:50,920 I don't understand the logic of the It's just kind of like some of the 523 00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:54,360 existentialists to have the same move right, they didn't Camu or somebody say no. 524 00:51:54,480 --> 00:52:00,000 Sartre said something like the ultimate act of the existentialist is to unlive oneself, 525 00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:05,800 and I think that shows that existentialism is an evil philosophy. But I 526 00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:08,280 don't see why in the same type of the world you couldn't like this. 527 00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:13,639 If all this reality is a prison, I mean, there's no why would 528 00:52:13,639 --> 00:52:16,239 there be a value to life? Right? Life would lose its value? 529 00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:25,800 And again, life is just another simulation. I'm getting thirsty, so today 530 00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:29,719 we're going to open it up. Please keep your questions, your comments, 531 00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:34,719 your debates, your views to the topic. Okay, if you come on 532 00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:39,159 talking about conspiracy stuff, unless it's related to David Ike and this worldview, 533 00:52:39,559 --> 00:52:45,800 then I'm not interested. I don't care if you're a wine mom about your 534 00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:50,599 poetry. I don't care about your rat bars. I don't care about any 535 00:52:50,599 --> 00:52:55,519 of that crap except for the topics listed in giant bold letters at the top. 536 00:52:57,679 --> 00:53:00,440 And invariably somebody will come in here, what are y'all talking about? 537 00:53:02,079 --> 00:53:07,679 Y'all see this news story about the tree that burned down with the kittens in 538 00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:13,679 it. No, no, by the way, that's five sence reality. 539 00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:17,679 There was no tree with kittens that burned down, because that's not real, 540 00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:29,400 bro, Because we in this simulation dogh what's up? Shout out to the 541 00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:32,960 chat. We got a thousand live. It's nice to see all y'all ner 542 00:53:34,159 --> 00:53:37,239 chad nerds up in the chat. We got a bunch of chad nerds in 543 00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:40,840 the chat. Wh y'all doing. We're gonna open it up again. Please 544 00:53:42,519 --> 00:53:51,480 please remember, keep your topics to the topic, stay on point. No 545 00:53:51,760 --> 00:54:00,360 mate, oh mate, cheetah ori. You mine your request to speak, 546 00:54:00,599 --> 00:54:06,039 I give you the microphone, you speak, and then we have the discussion. 547 00:54:06,079 --> 00:54:09,800 Remember we are on YouTube. Keep your tomment, your comments and topics 548 00:54:10,599 --> 00:54:15,159 relative to YouTube t O, s et cetera. If you don't, you're 549 00:54:15,159 --> 00:54:28,960 just immediately gonna get blocked. Jacob reality, you have to unmute guys, 550 00:54:29,039 --> 00:54:44,320 gotta umute yourself. Remember this, mh limit put my leby and glasses. 551 00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,639 I don't limit. Put my leby and glasses on so I can read out. 552 00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:55,960 What's up? Hey? Hey? I wanted to ask a question about 553 00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:04,039 the cogito. I recently was talking to a sim theory proponent who had some 554 00:55:04,079 --> 00:55:10,239 sort of Cartesian cogeth the defense, and I ran your your critique of Kogi 555 00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:16,239 two on him. Everyhow, you know you couldn't have knowledge of the simulation, 556 00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:22,559 because the means by which you came to the conclusion of that claim would 557 00:55:22,639 --> 00:55:29,639 be part of the simulation, right, so he said, he said that 558 00:55:29,679 --> 00:55:36,719 well, and we got into like the transcendent categories like logic and the self 559 00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:45,519 and the external world. He said, those would only be those would only 560 00:55:45,599 --> 00:55:55,000 be necessary for communicating the meaning of something like the self and the simulation. 561 00:55:55,239 --> 00:56:00,079 So like, in other words, the self would be the only thing that 562 00:56:00,079 --> 00:56:04,639 that's known, like the numana, and then everything else, including the other 563 00:56:04,639 --> 00:56:10,119 transentals, would be the phenomenal. And then so he said that those transcendental 564 00:56:10,159 --> 00:56:15,920 categories, with the exception of the self, are only necessary for communicating propositions, 565 00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:20,760 not the meaning. I don't think he understand I don't think he understands 566 00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:27,039 that can you mute? Man? It's a lot of echoing. So the 567 00:56:27,079 --> 00:56:34,239 first thing that he that it doesn't sound like he can you mute? So 568 00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:38,320 the first thing I don't think he understands is that he doesn't get to make 569 00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:42,440 all those moves that he's making. Oh well, it just refers to this 570 00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:45,320 thing and this thing and this thing and this thing. The critique of the 571 00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:51,159 Cogitow is more radical than that. The critique is that you don't get a 572 00:56:51,199 --> 00:56:57,039 self evident starting point of using language when you haven't justified language and meaning yet, 573 00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,920 you don't get to say the cogito, as Kan says, without having 574 00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:05,880 time as a thing that you presupposed because he says I think, therefore I 575 00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:09,639 am thinking is an occurring? Occurring? Is a time determination? Well, 576 00:57:09,679 --> 00:57:15,960 you haven't proven time yet. So people don't even understand what Descartes is trying 577 00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:20,719 to do. Descartes is looking for he's the ultimate foundationalist. He thinks he's 578 00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:24,039 finding the ultimate self evident truth. And all you have to do to refute 579 00:57:24,039 --> 00:57:28,960 that is to point out that it's not self evident. There's nothing self evident 580 00:57:29,039 --> 00:57:31,480 in that truth. And not only is it not self evident, it relies 581 00:57:31,519 --> 00:57:35,920 on a host of things that Descartes has not proven yet. That's all that's 582 00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:40,280 necessary to disprove Descartes and Cartesian philosophy, because if it's not self evident, 583 00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:53,079 then descartes whole project was bankrupt. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, 584 00:57:53,119 --> 00:57:58,559 sorry, there's a little bit of a delay that makes sense. Are 585 00:57:58,599 --> 00:58:01,679 you Are you also saying that if his position were true, for the sake 586 00:58:01,679 --> 00:58:07,159 of argument, he couldn't even how can he make the leap from the meaning 587 00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:14,840 the wraw meaning to communicating it with propositions like he's making a leap without justifying. 588 00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:19,719 I mean, so Descartes working before can you mute? There's a lot 589 00:58:19,719 --> 00:58:30,119 of echoes. Descartes is working this out before linguistic philosophy has developed, so 590 00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:37,639 he doesn't even realize that the sentences that he the sentence he writes out is 591 00:58:37,679 --> 00:58:45,519 assuming that words and grammar and all these things exist and have me. So 592 00:58:45,559 --> 00:58:50,960 in order to have the kogut, he has to have these other things be 593 00:58:51,039 --> 00:58:59,320 the case. So I don't think people understand what descartes project was. And 594 00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:04,320 if you understand what it is, if the project fails, it doesn't do 595 00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:09,280 any good. It doesn't work. So you can't just say we will grant 596 00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:14,880 me descartes starting point. How am I gonna grant you the starting point? 597 00:59:15,079 --> 00:59:20,800 If there's why would I grant any starting point? Why grant me my starting 598 00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:24,280 point? God exists? Do you see what I'm like? If they if 599 00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:30,079 the goto fails, there's no granting it. It fails. It's it's not 600 00:59:30,199 --> 00:59:32,079 a self evident truth. That's all. That's all that's required. That's it. 601 00:59:34,199 --> 00:59:37,039 So that you don't even have to go into Okay, but what if 602 00:59:37,039 --> 00:59:40,559 it is true? And then does he get to like make this move but 603 00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:45,599 not this move, Like there's no moves. It's not true, it's not 604 00:59:45,639 --> 00:59:50,000 a self evident truth, and so the whole project fails. And that's what 605 00:59:50,079 --> 00:59:54,440 the whole project was about. I mean, father Deacon near there, would 606 00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:57,920 you like to comment on that. You could probably say that better than me, 607 00:59:59,679 --> 01:00:05,559 if you where you can speak, you might not be h. Does 608 01:00:05,599 --> 01:00:14,079 that make sense, Jacob or not? For clearing that up for me, 609 01:00:15,679 --> 01:00:20,199 I just got kind of tripped up on the whole meaning being. Uh he 610 01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:24,320 was trying to like divorce the meaning itself from the proposition. Yeah, I 611 01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:28,719 kind of tripped up. Well, but it wouldn't even matter if you could 612 01:00:28,719 --> 01:00:35,480 do that, because Descartes is not that's you can't make that move because the 613 01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:38,480 whole, the whole point of Descartes thing is to find the rock bottom most 614 01:00:38,599 --> 01:00:44,039 self evident obvious thing that doesn't rely on something else. Oh well, it 615 01:00:44,079 --> 01:00:46,559 turns out the sentence relies on a bunch of things he hasn't proven yet. 616 01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:55,480 I'm also reading a paper two and I remember dealing with this in epistemology class. 617 01:00:55,760 --> 01:01:12,239 It's called it's famous, it's called the Cartesian circularity. So one second, 618 01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:20,719 just pop it up better to read it. In other words, he 619 01:01:20,719 --> 01:01:27,880 he assumes exactly what he wants to prove. He assumes clear and distinct ideas 620 01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:35,880 to get to God, to establish clear and distinct ideas. The Cartesian circle. 621 01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:42,519 It's known as what would you say about this idea of the self evidence 622 01:01:42,599 --> 01:01:47,360 of the proposition of the Kogito, Like, isn't it just if he if 623 01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:51,760 he's relying on other things, then it's just not self evident, right, 624 01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:59,840 yeah, exactly, And then I guess you'd also ask a question, too, 625 01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:01,960 well, how do we know it's self evident? Yeah? Oh, 626 01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:07,440 because I said so, that's what all these philosophers say. I mean, 627 01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:15,800 that is the deception of deception and philosophy. Like when you're stuck and all 628 01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:17,840 the arguments are against you, you know what you do, Well, it's 629 01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:23,559 self evident, and somehow it's a magic spell on the world that they just 630 01:02:23,599 --> 01:02:28,440 stopped thinking as soon as you say that word. Right, So remember the 631 01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:34,159 project was yes it's correct, or our project is I'm going to eliminate skepticism 632 01:02:34,239 --> 01:02:38,440 by doubting everything I can to find the rock bottom self evident truth that is 633 01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:45,400 indubitable to use the Cartesian lingo. But the problem is that if it's not 634 01:02:45,639 --> 01:02:50,039 a rock bottom solid thing, the project fails and it's not. And then 635 01:02:50,119 --> 01:02:54,320 also you have to assume your methodology to even get to that exactly would have 636 01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:59,840 to be indubitable. But it wasn't because it was admitted to be exactly that 637 01:03:00,199 --> 01:03:04,840 doubt. So you have circularity there too, the whole projects of yeah, 638 01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:08,400 it doesn't get you anywhere, and it's not self evident, so again there's 639 01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:13,840 no, it doesn't. The philosophy student can't then say, well, just 640 01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:15,760 grant me the Kochie tow and let me see if I can work from there. 641 01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:19,639 Well, no, I'm not going to grant you that, because it's 642 01:03:19,719 --> 01:03:22,199 it would be arbitrary. And if we're going to grant that, then we 643 01:03:22,239 --> 01:03:27,920 have to grant everybody else's position, grant my position, the ones for something 644 01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:38,239 I can't see the rest of the name. Am I good talk? Or 645 01:03:39,599 --> 01:03:44,719 hey, well Jay, thanks for letting me letting me come on. Really 646 01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:49,360 appreciate you letting me speak. I've actually spoken to a couple of people you've 647 01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:54,239 spoken to before, Rachel and Matt. Matt, he spoke to him recently. 648 01:03:54,280 --> 01:04:00,880 Anyways, I'm going through Manly P. Hall's Secret Teachings of all I'm 649 01:04:00,039 --> 01:04:06,639 a Christian and uh, I'm starting to notice some contradictions and and it's working 650 01:04:06,639 --> 01:04:14,199 into this conversation as well. Specifically, I've gotten to the to the subject 651 01:04:14,239 --> 01:04:23,000 of Kabbala and I'm understanding Thatala it comes from her Meticism, which also is 652 01:04:23,679 --> 01:04:30,719 uh, it's a found foundation of Platonism, which then goes into Gnoscissism itself. 653 01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:39,360 And so my question it's around the concept of ainsoft would that itself be 654 01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:44,800 an impersonal God? And does that? H does that mean that? Uh? 655 01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:51,199 That like that Cobala itself is a is a pagan concept? Like at 656 01:04:51,280 --> 01:05:00,519 what point does does it become? Yeah. So the foremost scholar of Modernbbolism 657 01:05:00,719 --> 01:05:04,320 in Judaism is Gersham Sholom, and Sholom has several books that he's written where 658 01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:12,079 he says that Kabbalism is essentially just gnosticism, So it pulls from Neoplatonism and 659 01:05:12,239 --> 01:05:19,199 medieval repackagings of gnostic systems to try to create new systems. So correct, 660 01:05:19,239 --> 01:05:28,000 it is absolutely just ancient gnosticism repackaged in Judaic sort of garb and Uh, 661 01:05:28,599 --> 01:05:31,840 if I recall, I mean that's ainsolf is just sort of the the realm 662 01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:39,239 of like potentia and non being. So so there's sort of the spheres and 663 01:05:39,280 --> 01:05:44,239 the emanations. Uh, and then there's dayat, which is like darkness and 664 01:05:44,320 --> 01:05:47,960 non being, and then there's you know, these different names that are given 665 01:05:48,039 --> 01:05:54,559 for these categories or for these dimensions or whatever you want to call them. 666 01:05:54,760 --> 01:05:58,039 Really, yeah, all this stuff is just borrowed from like Greek philosophy. 667 01:05:58,639 --> 01:06:02,159 That's okay, okay, thank you very much. I really appreciate the time, 668 01:06:02,719 --> 01:06:06,599 and I would love the opportunity to speak to you sometime formally on my 669 01:06:06,679 --> 01:06:12,199 show if that's possible. I won't bother you anymore though, thank you very 670 01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:15,800 much. I'm not bothered. Yeah, thank you. Yeah. And I 671 01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:20,719 think you know, Manly P. Hall is not the most reliable of religious 672 01:06:20,719 --> 01:06:26,679 scholars. He gets kind of lazy and sort of cribs together things in that 673 01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:30,400 book Secret Teaching and basically just tries to present all the religions as saying the 674 01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:34,119 same thing. They don't all say the same thing. He says Jesus is 675 01:06:34,159 --> 01:06:39,280 an initiate of the Egyptian mysteries or something like that, which is just simply 676 01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:47,639 not true. Guess gallup, what's up? Hello? Hey, oh hey 677 01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:50,840 Jay, Hey, thanks thanks for your great work. Man. Listen, 678 01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:55,159 I apologize that the answer is no, but would you consider kind of a 679 01:06:55,159 --> 01:07:00,960 brief observation, man, a question about the presuppositions of AI relevant to the 680 01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:05,599 topic today of narcissism kind of yeah, transhumanism and the relationship of mathematics to 681 01:07:05,639 --> 01:07:10,760 reality. Well, I mean, we just did a whole like fourth hour 682 01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:15,440 of The Lord Baltimore's Show with David Patrick Harry because he's writing his dissertation on 683 01:07:15,079 --> 01:07:19,400 transhumanism and gnocissism. So that whole fourth hour, which has pinned on my 684 01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:24,480 wall, is about that. So you know, we don't I don't think 685 01:07:24,480 --> 01:07:29,280 we have to rehearse all that. But what was the second part? Uh? 686 01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:33,119 I just had a comment and a kind of a question about the presuppositions 687 01:07:33,119 --> 01:07:36,519 of AI from a kind of a you know, the perspective of narcissism and 688 01:07:36,599 --> 01:07:40,960 transhumanism. But yeah, if you don't feel this on topic, then I'm 689 01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:43,039 sorry. You know I'm saying. I'm not saying it's not on topic. 690 01:07:43,079 --> 01:07:45,920 I'm saying that we just did a whole hour on that. So yeah, 691 01:07:45,960 --> 01:07:50,800 that's what got my wheel turning. Yeah, I really appreciated that. Yeah, 692 01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:54,480 I mean my my. So, you know, given the fact a 693 01:07:54,519 --> 01:08:00,480 computer program is ultimately, you know, a representation and an interpretation of number 694 01:08:00,239 --> 01:08:06,480 ultimately, and given that mathematical laws precede conception, kind of two things seem 695 01:08:06,519 --> 01:08:10,760 to follow for me. And the first one is a claim that kind of 696 01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:15,920 the active designing a program seems to culminate kind of in an active discovery, 697 01:08:15,560 --> 01:08:19,319 not creation, you know, because you know, the programmer didn't create the 698 01:08:19,399 --> 01:08:26,119 number that ultimately represents the program. And so then I had a question that 699 01:08:26,159 --> 01:08:29,199 follows from that, which is that since you know, quote you know, 700 01:08:29,239 --> 01:08:33,079 so called AI is also you know, just a program and thus just a 701 01:08:33,199 --> 01:08:40,199 number, what could it possibly mean for a number to be intelligent? Yeah, 702 01:08:40,199 --> 01:08:43,960 it doesn't make any sense. There would be a difference between you know, 703 01:08:44,319 --> 01:08:48,439 consciousness and just existence. So you know, trees, rocks, they 704 01:08:48,439 --> 01:08:55,560 exist. That doesn't mean that they're conscious or have you know, self knowledge. 705 01:08:55,600 --> 01:08:59,760 They're not intentional beings, they just are. So consciousness has to be 706 01:08:59,840 --> 01:09:02,439 some thing more than that. And I think that it's right to point out 707 01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:08,920 that, as the famous paper from you know that's I think it's at Oxford 708 01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:13,800 still Gardell Ascher, excuse me, mine's machines in Gardell. That paper argues 709 01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:16,279 that, I mean, algorithms will never be conscious. It doesn't matter how 710 01:09:16,319 --> 01:09:21,279 many more you know, how much more nerd code you put into the thing, 711 01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:27,800 it doesn't suddenly become self conscious. Right, So I think you are 712 01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:35,680 correct. You have to remember too, that the reason why that even possibly 713 01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:43,840 even became a plausible position is because of other philosophical stuff going on in movements. 714 01:09:44,800 --> 01:09:56,520 So you have behaviorism and this turned to materialism in the nineteen twentieth century. 715 01:09:58,119 --> 01:10:01,880 That lead up to once that's kind of accepted, you know, in 716 01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:13,079 academia. Then you get functionalism with Gilbert Ryle identity theories within functionalism, where 717 01:10:13,119 --> 01:10:19,279 it just well what is it to remember what behaviorism does? And this bleeds 718 01:10:19,319 --> 01:10:28,039 into functionalism for what is it to have a thought? Well, the behavior 719 01:10:28,079 --> 01:10:31,960 is a total reductionists. They're totally reductionists. So for us, we know 720 01:10:32,039 --> 01:10:38,239 that our thoughts are private. There's a kind of what it's like experience to 721 01:10:38,319 --> 01:10:43,439 them that you know, I can put into like kind of objective language, 722 01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:47,680 but you never have like complete access to what that's like. And so you 723 01:10:47,720 --> 01:10:53,039 know, for the material scientists. That's you know, that's terrible, it's 724 01:10:53,079 --> 01:10:59,960 it's mysterious. And so behaviorism came along and it was just as in law 725 01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:05,399 logical behaviorism, Well, all it is to have a thought is dispositions to 726 01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:10,640 behaviors, input and output. So if you have you know, we'll just 727 01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:16,560 reduce this, like you said, Jake, to a causal explanation. What 728 01:11:16,760 --> 01:11:20,319 is it to have the thought that it's raining? It's well, when I 729 01:11:20,359 --> 01:11:24,920 have the stimulus come in, then I have a tendency or I do an 730 01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:29,680 action or behavior where I close windows, carry umbrella outs, and that's all 731 01:11:29,720 --> 01:11:32,880 there is to be a thought. So once you get kind of functionalism comes 732 01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:38,079 in, it gives it like kind of a more robust philosophical kind of explanation 733 01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:45,520 of how this could be possible. Then you get the whole Pandora's box of 734 01:11:45,720 --> 01:11:54,840 AI. Well wait a minute, if mind is just realize ability in the 735 01:11:54,880 --> 01:12:00,680 material, right, and it's all of that can be cast down in terms 736 01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:10,000 of causal explanations and materialism. Then once you figure out the kind of function 737 01:12:10,119 --> 01:12:15,800 or program, then it doesn't really matter what you instantiate that in. It 738 01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:21,000 could be silicon chips, right, And then you get out on turning starts 739 01:12:21,039 --> 01:12:24,880 asking us question you know of the turning test, like, well, what 740 01:12:24,920 --> 01:12:30,760 would it take. Well, basically, if you fooled somebody into thinking it 741 01:12:30,880 --> 01:12:33,920 smells like a what is it smells like a duck, quacks like a duck, 742 01:12:33,960 --> 01:12:39,680 it's a duck. So the fact of the matter is that for these 743 01:12:39,720 --> 01:12:45,800 people, it was all this prior philosophy and behaviorism and materialism that enabled them 744 01:12:45,800 --> 01:12:51,520 to go, well, look, obviously, if it's acting intelligently, you 745 01:12:51,560 --> 01:12:55,520 know, and doing this stuff, it is conscious. It is intelligence, 746 01:12:56,479 --> 01:13:00,840 because that's all there is to There's nothing mysterious, right, It's just inputs 747 01:13:00,840 --> 01:13:02,800 and outputs, like you said, and that that's Norbert Wiener and all the 748 01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:11,279 people at MIT and their whole idea of the input outputs signal loop, feedback 749 01:13:11,319 --> 01:13:17,600 loop from the seventies. Yeah. Anyways, I think it's important to realize 750 01:13:18,880 --> 01:13:24,359 that they don't just come up with this. There's a whole history of philosophy 751 01:13:24,359 --> 01:13:30,119 that enables them to actually make these steps and say these ridiculous things. Well, 752 01:13:30,119 --> 01:13:33,479 and to the point of simulation theory too, it could usually turn into 753 01:13:34,239 --> 01:13:39,560 the determinist fallacy, Right, why would we not be in a position like 754 01:13:39,760 --> 01:13:44,000 Sam Harris. Where Wait a minute, if I'm part of a simulation, 755 01:13:44,159 --> 01:13:45,680 a computer program, then I don't have why would I have free will? 756 01:13:47,039 --> 01:13:49,079 Oh? I didn't even think about that. You know, I was making 757 01:13:49,079 --> 01:13:55,760 that argument on Twitter that it's a defeater for knowledge right on other but I 758 01:13:55,760 --> 01:13:59,960 didn't even think about I mean, I think it was a defeater of knowledge. 759 01:14:00,520 --> 01:14:03,359 Well why would why would I think that I'm not part of the program? 760 01:14:03,840 --> 01:14:05,720 Right, And that's I think the whole part of like, oh, 761 01:14:05,720 --> 01:14:09,960 well, this is where the gnostic you know, initiation comes in, where 762 01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:14,119 you get enlightened and you're you're the uber minche that it can exit the system. 763 01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:15,800 Well, well, I mean it feels like I'm still here, so 764 01:14:16,199 --> 01:14:19,079 like, well how do I exit? Right? Is that when I'm tripping 765 01:14:19,560 --> 01:14:24,359 balls on DMT and I'm talking to the clockwork Elves with Terrence McKenna and they're 766 01:14:24,359 --> 01:14:28,840 telling me, you know the world you just realized that was part of the 767 01:14:28,840 --> 01:14:31,039 simulation. Yeah, Like and why wouldn't that be part? Yeah? How 768 01:14:31,039 --> 01:14:33,640 do I know that? That's? Oh, that's the exiting of the suit. 769 01:14:33,720 --> 01:14:41,680 So it ends up being in this sort of mystical irrationality that again doesn't 770 01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:45,159 doesn't give us anything better than where we were before. Right, there's no 771 01:14:46,199 --> 01:14:50,119 quick There's some people who were confused about this. Somebody have asked on Twitter, 772 01:14:50,159 --> 01:14:56,439 why is why is a simulation theory at the theater for knowledge? So 773 01:14:56,520 --> 01:15:01,600 if we just went back as you saw well, traditionally speaking and epistemology, 774 01:15:01,920 --> 01:15:09,880 there's at least three conditions for knowledge, a truth condition, a belief condition, 775 01:15:10,119 --> 01:15:13,199 and a justification condition. So what that means is, well, that 776 01:15:13,359 --> 01:15:15,279 knowledge do you have to have a person who has a belief. That's a 777 01:15:15,319 --> 01:15:21,920 belief condition. The belief has to be true, has to match reality correct. 778 01:15:23,880 --> 01:15:28,199 But that's not because you could have lucky guess or you come up, 779 01:15:28,359 --> 01:15:31,039 you know, to a true belief on accents, you knew the justification reason 780 01:15:31,079 --> 01:15:39,319 a sufficient good reason to actually hold a belief. So my argument is that 781 01:15:39,359 --> 01:15:47,000 we'll wait a minute. It certainly doesn't fulfill the truth condition because by definition, 782 01:15:47,119 --> 01:15:53,399 the simulation's false, it's not real, so you never get to anything 783 01:15:53,479 --> 01:16:00,880 true. Right. And then furthermore, suppose you could under an illusion, 784 01:16:00,840 --> 01:16:04,279 and so if you even came to a true belief that you were in a 785 01:16:04,319 --> 01:16:10,680 matrix, you know that it's a simulation. You came under it under the 786 01:16:10,760 --> 01:16:15,880 influence of something of an illusion, which nobody in the right mind would say, 787 01:16:15,880 --> 01:16:20,279 Well, that's a good reason to come to beliefs. Let's all put 788 01:16:20,279 --> 01:16:27,920 ourself under the influence of illusions and falsehoods and will come to a correct belief. 789 01:16:29,279 --> 01:16:36,640 Yeah. So that also includes, because it's reflexive, the belief that 790 01:16:36,840 --> 01:16:41,840 it's all simulation. Right, So if it's a simulation, you have no 791 01:16:41,960 --> 01:16:45,920 truth condition and you have no justification conditions, so you can't even get to 792 01:16:45,000 --> 01:16:50,600 a true belief that's justified about that's all simulation. So it's it's self defeating. 793 01:16:51,640 --> 01:16:56,920 Yeah, exactly, a great point, Harry. Remember to keep it 794 01:16:57,319 --> 01:17:20,399 YouTube safe. You gotta unmute. Okay, you're not unmuting, so I 795 01:17:20,439 --> 01:17:34,479 can't hear you. Joker Jedi, what's up? Hello? Yo? I 796 01:17:34,520 --> 01:17:41,439 thought I would never be able to speak. You are able. We are 797 01:17:41,479 --> 01:17:45,800 not able to hear you are able? Yeah, I don't need to say 798 01:17:45,840 --> 01:17:51,840 it. Too much. Mental activity, too much rambling two hours, listening 799 01:17:51,960 --> 01:17:56,720 to a lot of stuff. You mean an hour and twenty minutes, So 800 01:17:56,840 --> 01:18:02,560 that's not two hours. It's a lot of mental activity. And yeah, 801 01:18:02,960 --> 01:18:09,880 and what's on your mind? Yeah, what's on your mind? I don't 802 01:18:09,920 --> 01:18:19,520 even know where to start, Okay, I pick somewhere. But what would 803 01:18:19,560 --> 01:18:24,520 you would you like to talk about? I mean, the topics are listed, 804 01:18:24,680 --> 01:18:33,439 so in those topics do you believe in God? Okay? I feel 805 01:18:33,479 --> 01:18:39,560 like those dogmas and the views that you said makes a lot of sense. 806 01:18:40,359 --> 01:18:47,520 Uh. And I understand your critique about people that you know go to places 807 01:18:47,560 --> 01:18:54,840 to take ayauasca and e MT and those things, but those are substances that 808 01:18:56,319 --> 01:19:01,600 they activate your brain and your body and your cells. Uh in a different 809 01:19:01,760 --> 01:19:09,560 way if every body is purified. But most of people, especially in America, 810 01:19:10,119 --> 01:19:15,479 they don't have a good health. They don't eat natural things, so 811 01:19:15,600 --> 01:19:24,079 when they have the experiences, they are not exactly accessing a higher dimension. 812 01:19:24,279 --> 01:19:30,800 They are first just you know, like expelling those that type of energy. 813 01:19:32,000 --> 01:19:38,079 How do I don't have Maybe maybe your body is vomiting out the mushrooms because 814 01:19:38,119 --> 01:19:43,000 your body has taken in a poison. Yeah, yeah, something something. 815 01:19:43,680 --> 01:19:47,640 It's different, the mushrooms and the ayahuaska and different. I feel like different 816 01:19:47,640 --> 01:19:55,479 substances. They they activate different parts of parts of your body. You know, 817 01:19:56,039 --> 01:20:00,279 so science, so I don't need to explain it, because how in 818 01:20:00,319 --> 01:20:04,680 your view would you know whether you're accessing a good spirit in the spirit realm 819 01:20:04,760 --> 01:20:13,840 versus something negative. I feel like things like, you know, intrusive thoughts 820 01:20:13,960 --> 01:20:20,399 or you know, like some psychic attack. People say, I feel it's 821 01:20:20,399 --> 01:20:26,079 smart about energy. It's like, well, how would you know? Okay, 822 01:20:26,079 --> 01:20:28,119 how would you know if it's a good energy or about energy? What's 823 01:20:28,159 --> 01:20:32,000 the standard that tells you it's not about being good or bad energy? It's 824 01:20:32,039 --> 01:20:39,119 about being dense energy or lighter? Okay? So why is the lighter better 825 01:20:39,159 --> 01:20:43,880 than the dance? It's not it's not the dnse energy. They have a 826 01:20:43,920 --> 01:20:47,079 purpose too. So is there is there good and evil? Or no, 827 01:20:47,119 --> 01:20:50,720 there's no good and evil? No, they are just you know, cleaners. 828 01:20:50,880 --> 01:20:55,760 No, is there good and evil at all at all? What? 829 01:20:55,920 --> 01:20:58,520 Sorry? Is there good and evil at all? Or there's no good and 830 01:20:58,600 --> 01:21:06,680 evil at all? Yeah, that's that's a philosophical question. I don't know 831 01:21:06,720 --> 01:21:15,840 if we can Well it's a philosophical debate discussion. So uh, I feel 832 01:21:15,880 --> 01:21:21,319 like more it's energy and the consequences of our actions. So are there good 833 01:21:21,479 --> 01:21:26,920 are there good consequences and bad consequences? Yeah? Okay, So what's the 834 01:21:26,920 --> 01:21:30,800 standard we're gonna beat? Yeah? But if you if you have if you 835 01:21:30,960 --> 01:21:40,560 understand some things the way it works, you can like predict how it will 836 01:21:40,880 --> 01:21:45,199 if it will be good or not good. But I'm asking you what's good 837 01:21:45,199 --> 01:21:51,079 and what's bad? So you keep going in a circle, okay, And 838 01:21:51,239 --> 01:21:58,439 your vision is that there isn't no I believe in good and evil. You 839 01:21:58,520 --> 01:22:00,960 keep saying good, bad, good, bad. This that I want to 840 01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:08,920 know what the standard is for good and bet hm, probably common sense? 841 01:22:10,680 --> 01:22:14,159 So is that different for each person? So it's relative to each person. 842 01:22:15,479 --> 01:22:18,079 Well, Well, if I punch you in the face, I think it's 843 01:22:18,159 --> 01:22:23,000 common sense that I shouldn't do that. Yeah, But if you're trying to 844 01:22:23,039 --> 01:22:27,399 steal from my wife or take her away and kidnap her and I punch you 845 01:22:27,399 --> 01:22:32,119 in her face, that's good. Yeah. Okay, So so puning in 846 01:22:32,119 --> 01:22:36,640 the face is not common sense necessarily good or that it depends it depends on 847 01:22:36,680 --> 01:22:43,399 the environment. Yeah. So we're looking for standards though, and that's that's 848 01:22:43,399 --> 01:22:46,319 the kind of the point of today's discussion is that there's not a standard in 849 01:22:46,359 --> 01:22:49,000 this worldview. So I'm not trying to be mean to you, but we're 850 01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:54,319 going to move on to the next topic. Next in line was Daniel, 851 01:22:54,359 --> 01:23:18,159 what's up Daniel. You gotta hummute, m Daniel. Are you there? 852 01:23:23,560 --> 01:23:26,079 All right? Daniel? You might have to come back out and come back 853 01:23:26,119 --> 01:23:54,760 in Lucas. You gotta hummute? Is it me? Is it my turn? 854 01:23:54,880 --> 01:23:58,640 Yeah? What's up? Jack? Hey? All right? Quick? 855 01:23:58,800 --> 01:24:00,960 So yeah, I'm not here to the debate against anything. I'm kind of 856 01:24:01,000 --> 01:24:05,119 curious here because I used to be Catholic til the age of twenty three. 857 01:24:05,199 --> 01:24:09,199 Then I went the whole deest route. The biggest problem for me was the 858 01:24:09,239 --> 01:24:12,600 problem of evil, and I ran into that whole. I read David Like's 859 01:24:12,600 --> 01:24:15,119 book The Lion Sleeps No More some crazy It's like six hundred pages and all 860 01:24:15,159 --> 01:24:18,720 that stuff. And so my thing is, it is the problem with you 861 01:24:18,880 --> 01:24:21,399 when you go back to the Old Testament, you have you know, job 862 01:24:21,680 --> 01:24:25,720 He basically makes a deal with Satan, a torture one of his most loyal 863 01:24:25,760 --> 01:24:30,159 followers. I don't know why things like this, I think turn people away 864 01:24:30,800 --> 01:24:34,000 from Christianity. And now I'm actually floating in a realm of like this Bernardo 865 01:24:34,119 --> 01:24:39,159 castrip idea that there's a mind, and I'm still I talk to Andrew a 866 01:24:39,199 --> 01:24:41,880 lot of times, and you know, we talk each other on telegram and 867 01:24:41,960 --> 01:24:44,920 kind of go back and forth. So I'm always open to find out if 868 01:24:44,920 --> 01:24:48,119 God is a person or is it just this subjective mind. But like when 869 01:24:48,159 --> 01:24:51,039 it comes to this knowledge thing, but you know, as you and father, 870 01:24:51,439 --> 01:24:54,840 I'm sorry, Anonius, what is I don't know the whole name. 871 01:24:56,199 --> 01:25:00,439 So you're saying, basically your version of reality is God create that this. 872 01:25:00,800 --> 01:25:02,319 I guess you can call it a simulation as well. Right, it would 873 01:25:02,479 --> 01:25:06,439 kind of be like a testing ground for who's worthy to go back to God. 874 01:25:08,039 --> 01:25:11,439 And in the Gnostic view, it's an abortion or a fart, which 875 01:25:11,439 --> 01:25:15,159 would explain my life stinks. Maybe perhaps that maybe that makes it a good 876 01:25:15,439 --> 01:25:17,560 Yeah, no, I think that's a correct contrasting of the two positions. 877 01:25:17,600 --> 01:25:23,640 We would say this world is kind of a training ground for the attaining a 878 01:25:23,760 --> 01:25:28,960 virtue to go to the next level or to the resurrection, right, And 879 01:25:29,039 --> 01:25:33,520 so evil is necessary then in order for us to know what's good, it's 880 01:25:33,560 --> 01:25:40,000 not necessary. It's something that occurred that was permitted, but not necessary because 881 01:25:40,039 --> 01:25:43,680 you could still have multiple goods to choose from. For example, we think 882 01:25:43,720 --> 01:25:47,640 in the Escaton and the resurrection there will still be multiple goods and free will, 883 01:25:47,720 --> 01:25:53,439 but no evil. Right, So it's like going in a candy shop. 884 01:25:53,479 --> 01:25:56,800 It's just all good candy. No, like candy would spikes in it 885 01:25:56,840 --> 01:26:00,199 to kill you, right, no pain? Yeah, So then the agnostic 886 01:26:00,359 --> 01:26:03,439 or whatever, because I've heard about Sophia, I look like I listened to 887 01:26:03,479 --> 01:26:06,119 a few people. I watch your stuff a bunch of times. What I'm 888 01:26:06,159 --> 01:26:10,119 interested. I didn't know you did you did DMT, right, you said 889 01:26:10,319 --> 01:26:15,319 no, I did LSD probably five or six times back in when I was 890 01:26:15,359 --> 01:26:18,239 like eighteen seventeen, eighteen years ago, and five minutes, like you said, 891 01:26:18,319 --> 01:26:24,479 it lasted. I saw Vishnu and Shiva, two Hindu beings. But 892 01:26:24,560 --> 01:26:27,039 when I asked to see God, I went to a room full of eyes. 893 01:26:27,199 --> 01:26:30,439 Right, it was just eyeballs for eternity, and some dude drew the 894 01:26:30,479 --> 01:26:34,079 same picture like literally never you're talking about Alex Gray's art. Yes, that 895 01:26:34,199 --> 01:26:39,479 exact thing, Jake, So in your view, because I know Andrew would 896 01:26:39,479 --> 01:26:41,840 tell me their demons, because that's what he says, like their demons. 897 01:26:41,840 --> 01:26:44,600 Man, I'm like, all right, well maybe, but what the hell 898 01:26:44,600 --> 01:26:46,199 did I see it? I mean, if God is consciousness, because here's 899 01:26:46,239 --> 01:26:51,119 my here's my understanding. If you give God the characteristics of omnipotence, omnipresence 900 01:26:53,279 --> 01:26:56,239 and all the other stuff. He has to be everywhere. So like my 901 01:26:56,399 --> 01:27:00,479 view of God is almost like he is existence, and it kind of goes 902 01:27:00,520 --> 01:27:03,479 with the Tao or like the one. And it seems to me that God, 903 01:27:03,600 --> 01:27:06,680 you guys believe and maybe I know you guys, you're trin you believe 904 01:27:06,760 --> 01:27:10,680 Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit of the Father and all that. And I 905 01:27:10,720 --> 01:27:13,359 know it's not one plus one equals three or whatever. I know that. 906 01:27:13,439 --> 01:27:15,319 I know, I've seen your videos. I study what you're saying. But 907 01:27:15,479 --> 01:27:19,439 like you know, if this God is located in one place, then it 908 01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:25,680 loses that omnip omnipresence, doesn't it. Well, we would say that's dialectics. 909 01:27:25,720 --> 01:27:30,600 It's both and God is God can be incarnate in the person of Christ 910 01:27:30,640 --> 01:27:34,359 and walking around in Jerusalem, and also via his divine nature be omnipresent. 911 01:27:34,439 --> 01:27:39,279 So it's a both and and on either or. And I would say that 912 01:27:39,520 --> 01:27:43,279 I had a bad LSD trip where I saw not a bunch of eyes, 913 01:27:43,319 --> 01:27:47,199 but I saw a point of light that communicated with me for four hours or 914 01:27:47,199 --> 01:27:50,720 so. I think it was something demonic. I do. I do think 915 01:27:50,760 --> 01:27:56,720 that those types of drugs can open us up to the spiritual realm. And 916 01:27:56,800 --> 01:27:59,039 I would say that in most cases, maybe not in every case. I 917 01:27:59,079 --> 01:28:01,079 can't say but it for every case, But I say most cases, it's 918 01:28:01,159 --> 01:28:04,800 typically something to mind it because the messages are given that are given are typically 919 01:28:05,479 --> 01:28:11,520 not things that cultivate cultivate virtues, but rather they typically cultivate arrogance and pride 920 01:28:11,560 --> 01:28:15,760 and vices. And that's typically how we would know to quote judge or discern 921 01:28:15,840 --> 01:28:18,359 between the spirits, like what's it, what's the fruits of this? What's 922 01:28:18,399 --> 01:28:21,119 it telling me to do? And I'm not saying in your case, I 923 01:28:21,159 --> 01:28:25,159 don't know your experience, but most of the time, like the experience that 924 01:28:25,199 --> 01:28:29,119 people have is stuff like oh, the you know, the clockwork elves told 925 01:28:29,159 --> 01:28:31,199 me that we're all one and we need to, you know, stop eating 926 01:28:31,239 --> 01:28:34,439 meat, and we need to you know, worship Mother Gaia and we need 927 01:28:34,479 --> 01:28:38,399 to stop having babies and you know, save the planet and this kind of 928 01:28:38,399 --> 01:28:43,119 bullshit. Well, well, the Shiva destroyed my body. Then I assumed 929 01:28:43,119 --> 01:28:45,920 into Ganeshu the elephant head, which I never seen. Basically, the triangle 930 01:28:46,000 --> 01:28:48,640 the universe has made a golden triangles. That's what it taught me, and 931 01:28:48,680 --> 01:28:53,439 then God just was a bunch of room. I was a room full of 932 01:28:53,479 --> 01:28:56,720 eyes. But another thing I wanted to talk about, what was it? 933 01:28:56,720 --> 01:29:02,359 It was basically the the problem of evil. I think is probably the most 934 01:29:02,439 --> 01:29:04,800 challenging for Christians, is it not? I mean, don't you think that 935 01:29:04,960 --> 01:29:09,119 is the Yeah? It is right. So that's what I think. And 936 01:29:09,279 --> 01:29:13,199 I'm trying to because I do feel as I try to go back and try 937 01:29:13,199 --> 01:29:15,039 to discover what God is because I cover from a Catholic family. Like I 938 01:29:15,039 --> 01:29:18,920 said, Roman Catholic. My grandfather would speak Latin, he wrote in Greek, 939 01:29:19,000 --> 01:29:21,399 he would write to the Vatican, right. And when he was a 940 01:29:21,439 --> 01:29:24,960 young boy at six years old, he was in Italy, said my mom, 941 01:29:25,079 --> 01:29:27,880 she's done a dun in Jailah, which means mom, there's a woman 942 01:29:27,920 --> 01:29:30,159 in the sky. And he explained what this woman looked like, and it 943 01:29:30,239 --> 01:29:34,239 was literally Mother Mary in the black veil with the golden trim, which is 944 01:29:34,239 --> 01:29:39,039 specific in that area of Italy, right, And it was very strange. 945 01:29:39,039 --> 01:29:42,359 So my whole family has these kind of stories. And he was a super 946 01:29:42,399 --> 01:29:45,159 true believer. But I fell away because I was in the Marine Corps. 947 01:29:45,159 --> 01:29:47,600 I went to Iraq and I saw you know, in my experience, I'm 948 01:29:47,600 --> 01:29:50,199 praying to God. I came back alive, my family, Jesus, I 949 01:29:50,199 --> 01:29:55,199 had a rosary in my flack jacket. Others died even though they prayed. 950 01:29:55,199 --> 01:29:58,079 So well, wait a minute, if God has a master plan, why 951 01:29:58,119 --> 01:30:00,159 the help I praying at all? If this guy's going to praise up? 952 01:30:00,399 --> 01:30:03,359 So these are the kind of questions and maybe the fathers that you guys study, 953 01:30:03,399 --> 01:30:06,960 because I know Orthodox is different with Catholicism. I know that you guys 954 01:30:06,960 --> 01:30:10,600 go deep. You don't believe hell is a flame, you're going to burn 955 01:30:10,640 --> 01:30:14,159 the hell? You just your the presence of God makes you suffer, right, 956 01:30:14,239 --> 01:30:15,520 that kind of thing, right, Jack, Right, So there's a 957 01:30:15,560 --> 01:30:19,479 lot more in Orthodox Christianity, which perhaps I would have never left. My 958 01:30:19,880 --> 01:30:24,239 thing is, of course, the miracles and the revelation. So anyway, 959 01:30:24,319 --> 01:30:26,800 I went to this whole. I went to the whole Rupert's spirits, you 960 01:30:26,800 --> 01:30:31,359 know, the non dualist thinkers, the Bernardo Castrups, the Alan Watts was 961 01:30:31,399 --> 01:30:34,239 a big favorite of mine, you know, big influence, the sad guru 962 01:30:34,359 --> 01:30:39,520 type people. I kind of like that won this thing. And when I 963 01:30:39,520 --> 01:30:41,680 talk to Andrews, like, but yeah, bro, it's illogical. Here's 964 01:30:41,720 --> 01:30:46,000 why it's illogical. But anyway, going back to the simulation theory, if 965 01:30:46,039 --> 01:30:50,680 it is a simulation and you guys say you can't even know, it would 966 01:30:50,720 --> 01:30:56,479 be basically you be guessing correctly. But how does that differ from your religion? 967 01:30:56,560 --> 01:30:59,640 You see what I'm saying. Aren't you kind of hoping that your religion 968 01:30:59,720 --> 01:31:01,560 is because I know none of you actually know for a fact that's true. 969 01:31:01,600 --> 01:31:04,159 I'm not saying it's not. Well, one of the points of the transcendental 970 01:31:04,239 --> 01:31:08,880 argument for God is that we're I know, yeah, I know you're familiar 971 01:31:08,920 --> 01:31:12,720 with it. But I'm saying that one of the points is that it's not 972 01:31:12,840 --> 01:31:15,159 just arguing that we're sort of making a leap of faith and that the God 973 01:31:15,279 --> 01:31:21,279 thing makes this thing work. We're saying that the God principle, the metaphysics 974 01:31:21,319 --> 01:31:27,399 of Christianity or the Christianity is really the only way to ground how to have 975 01:31:27,520 --> 01:31:30,640 knowledge. So that's it's a specific logical, philosophical type of argument, and 976 01:31:31,159 --> 01:31:35,760 the position of like simulation theory or something like that would make knowledge impossible. 977 01:31:35,840 --> 01:31:41,840 So it's too too radically different arguments and claims about what's going on. So 978 01:31:41,960 --> 01:31:47,600 simulation theory makes knowledge impossible. We're saying that the Christian position metaphysic grounds and 979 01:31:47,600 --> 01:31:50,840 gives an account for knowledge in a philosophical sense. Does that make sense? 980 01:31:51,640 --> 01:31:54,960 It does, yes, But you believe that's the case, right, What 981 01:31:55,000 --> 01:31:57,920 if there could be another Well, we're saying it's demonstrable, not just a 982 01:31:57,920 --> 01:32:00,840 belief that we have, but it's actually the strongest type of argument. But 983 01:32:00,880 --> 01:32:04,279 didn't you ground that belief in another being? Prep? No, No, 984 01:32:05,600 --> 01:32:10,720 there's another type of being. Wouldn't do the work? Yes, to do 985 01:32:10,800 --> 01:32:15,079 the grounding, and it must be the trinitarian being that you guys believe. 986 01:32:15,119 --> 01:32:17,760 It cannot be because I know, j You've argued Muslims and you know I've 987 01:32:17,760 --> 01:32:21,359 seen you argue. What. Yeah, the metaphysics of a unitarian deity I 988 01:32:21,399 --> 01:32:27,319 think ends up lacking. It makes it. For example, when you really 989 01:32:27,399 --> 01:32:31,199 drill into Islam, it's an unknowable deity. So it doesn't actually do the 990 01:32:31,239 --> 01:32:35,319 work right. So's in other words, the god of the universe or all 991 01:32:35,319 --> 01:32:40,840 creation must have manifested itself at some point. Well, you must be personal 992 01:32:40,840 --> 01:32:44,199 and knowable. And the problem is that in Islam, on the one hand, 993 01:32:44,199 --> 01:32:46,520 they want to say Allah is knowable, but the rest of their theology 994 01:32:46,600 --> 01:32:51,439 metaphysics in the way that they constantly attack the incarnation and God's imminence, for 995 01:32:51,479 --> 01:32:57,880 example, makes knowing God impossible. So that's one angle I often hit the 996 01:32:58,319 --> 01:33:03,000 Muslim critique from. But that addresses too kind of what you were saying earlier 997 01:33:03,039 --> 01:33:08,359 about that existence itself might be God for us, we would say that's pantheism, 998 01:33:08,439 --> 01:33:12,760 and we would say, yeah, we would say pantheism is another position 999 01:33:12,840 --> 01:33:17,760 that makes knowledge unjustifiable and unknowable. Well, have you heard of Panandiism, 1000 01:33:17,760 --> 01:33:20,199 where it's like, Okay, there's a mind of God in the universe, 1001 01:33:20,239 --> 01:33:24,279 exists within it, and he's like dreaming us up. Essentially we're all like 1002 01:33:24,319 --> 01:33:28,920 alters. Well, I would say that divine conceptualism, which is kind of 1003 01:33:28,960 --> 01:33:33,439 what I was arguing at the beginning, is a little bit similar to that. 1004 01:33:33,560 --> 01:33:38,439 But I wouldn't say that it's God's dream or that the world isn't real 1005 01:33:38,680 --> 01:33:42,479 or anything like that. We would say that in the mind of God, 1006 01:33:42,560 --> 01:33:46,840 will you find the grounding ultimately for things like universal categories, mathematical principles, 1007 01:33:46,960 --> 01:33:51,359 universals, laws of logic, those could only be grounding and a being like 1008 01:33:51,520 --> 01:33:59,000 God with omniscience and so forth, and that he's personal and intentional. So 1009 01:33:59,079 --> 01:34:01,720 that's the argument what the difference is to. I mean, there's two things 1010 01:34:01,720 --> 01:34:04,119 that dreams somewhat unintentional