1 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,120 Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis your host, and 2 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:35,840 we have a great one for you this evening. Our guest is Dan Wright 3 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:40,399 and he's going to be talking about his book that came out on September one, 4 00:00:41,119 --> 00:00:46,640 The CIA UFO Papers, Fifty Years of Government Secrets and cover Ups. 5 00:00:47,439 --> 00:00:51,679 Dan is a long time move on investigative, going all the way back to 6 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:56,079 nineteen seventy eight. He'll be joining us. Before that, we have Jordan 7 00:00:56,200 --> 00:01:02,920 Bonaparte from Canada. Jordan is taking Alejandro's placed this week. Alejandro Rojas is 8 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:08,120 actually moving. Hopefully he'll be back next week when he's settled in. I 9 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:12,239 want to thank everyone that supports the show. Anyone can do that, and 10 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:17,719 if you support the show, you will get the full podcast of the full 11 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:23,519 hour and fifty minutes or so for your media players. Going back about two 12 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:29,879 hundred episodes in the archives that were full two hour shows, So you can 13 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:34,120 find that on how to do that on our website podcast UFO dot com. 14 00:01:34,159 --> 00:01:38,040 While you're over there, check out our latest blog. It's called UFO nine 15 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:45,560 one. It's about recordings, police recordings, etc. Of UFO incidents, 16 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:51,040 so check that out. I also want to thank everyone that helps out with 17 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:55,680 the show, including Peggy. She helps us on the Facebook page and that's 18 00:01:56,719 --> 00:02:00,959 podcast UFO over at Facebook. She posts news store worries every single day, 19 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:05,760 just to waybe or not every weekend day, but every single day over there, 20 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:09,240 so check that out. Anyway, I am about ready to get going. 21 00:02:09,479 --> 00:02:15,360 Jordan Bonaparte joins us from Canada. He does a great podcast called The 22 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:21,039 Nighttime Podcast. Jordan, why don't you tell us about what someone can expect 23 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,759 to listen to the Nighttime Podcast. Yeah, so, I actually don't live 24 00:02:24,759 --> 00:02:30,199 too far from Shang Harbor, but I host a show called The Nighttime Podcast 25 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:37,199 where unlike Martin Show, where it's more interview like you know you and a 26 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:43,719 guest discussing something mine, it's it's more like a documentary style telling of Canadian 27 00:02:43,759 --> 00:02:49,919 based crime, missing persons cases, or just plain odd or unusual stories. 28 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,719 But one thing I have a personal passion about is the UFO phenomenon in that 29 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:58,800 topic. So as much as often as much as I can, I'll take 30 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:05,960 Canadian UFO events. I get in touch with witnesses, investigators, uphologists, 31 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:09,639 or even just people like Martin and chatted out so throughout the I guess I've 32 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:15,439 done probably eighty or ninety episodes of the Nighttime podcast at this point, and 33 00:03:15,479 --> 00:03:19,919 I've covered quite a few UFO events. So people who are into kind of 34 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,840 hearing the background or hearing the story of lesser known UFO events, if you 35 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:28,039 tune into my show or go through my back catalog, you'll probably find some 36 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:32,240 interesting stuff. Yeah. The one you have up there recently is called the 37 00:03:32,319 --> 00:03:37,360 Belle Island Boom, and I listened to that two episodes of that. That's 38 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,680 really a bizarre situation where this what they don't under it sounds like it could 39 00:03:40,759 --> 00:03:46,599 be maybe a natural phenomenon, but then it just did such bizarre things to 40 00:03:46,719 --> 00:03:50,439 this one home, you know, I mean the burn, the copper wires 41 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:54,800 right out of the wires, and fuses shot across and made dents in the 42 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:58,759 wall, and you know, I mean just really weird, weird stuff. 43 00:03:58,759 --> 00:04:01,520 That's a great story, that one. Yeah, and there's there's really no 44 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,479 question about it. Like all of the things that happened during the Bell Island 45 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:10,919 Boom are well documented, photographed. A lot of the witnesses have spoke several 46 00:04:10,919 --> 00:04:15,759 times about what had happened, including the fire marshal who was sent to investigate 47 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:19,519 him, but kind of the official explanation for the Bell Island boom for people 48 00:04:19,519 --> 00:04:25,240 who are unfamiliar with with that one, it was basically an aerial explosion like 49 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:30,920 the sound, basically a loud explosion in the sky, but for some reason 50 00:04:30,959 --> 00:04:38,720 it seemed to create an incredibly bizarre amount of electrical disturbances in this one area 51 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:44,680 of a small island in Newfoundland. In kind of the electrical disturbances where things 52 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:50,240 like television sets exploding so much electricity passing through the power lines like go down 53 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:55,879 the street, that there was a trail of ash below the power lines from 54 00:04:56,040 --> 00:05:00,839 like the rubber insulation or the rub rubber casing. It all melted. Several 55 00:05:00,879 --> 00:05:04,879 homes had to be completely rewired. A barn full of chickens it was, 56 00:05:04,879 --> 00:05:11,279 was collapsed and all of the chickens inside were basically just fried. The official 57 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:15,759 Yeah, it's a really strange stuff. The official explanation is that it was 58 00:05:15,399 --> 00:05:24,079 a very rare type of superpowerful lightning called ball lightning, and the official explanation 59 00:05:24,199 --> 00:05:30,000 says that the ball lightning was amplified even further due to the fact that Belle 60 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:33,600 Island has a lot of iron deposits, so I don't know if it's if 61 00:05:33,639 --> 00:05:39,519 that's conductive for electricity or whatnot. But that's the official story. But there 62 00:05:39,519 --> 00:05:44,519 has been years and years of rumors that it could be anything from a UFO 63 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:53,800 event to government testing of electromagnetic energy type weapons Russians. Yeah, yeah, 64 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:59,360 there's been. After the original investigation, after the Bell Island boom occurred, 65 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:03,399 we're the government had announced it was this ball lightning, there's been. There 66 00:06:03,439 --> 00:06:14,680 were several groups of Canadian, American and Russian military people interviewing and taking photographs 67 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,759 and poking around the island. The people the Americans were from Los Alamos, 68 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:24,680 which I guess has a history for testing of experimental weapons. And again there's 69 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,879 there's no question about whether or not they were there. They were photographed and 70 00:06:27,959 --> 00:06:30,680 filmed there, and you know that they were there doing that. So there's 71 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,959 been several documentaries about it, and if you go on YouTube and just search 72 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:40,079 Belle Island Boom, you'll find some really fascinating stuff. And my episodes are 73 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,639 up there. There's there's now three of them. The third one I released 74 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:47,079 features an interview with a woman named Cynthia Bickford, who was about twenty five 75 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,639 years old at the time and she lived in the home where was thought to 76 00:06:50,639 --> 00:06:55,000 be ground zero. She still lives there and still owns the house, and 77 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:58,360 so she came kind of out of the shadows and told her story for the 78 00:06:58,399 --> 00:07:01,040 first time about what she remembers on that bizarre day. Wow. Hey, 79 00:07:01,079 --> 00:07:03,920 you know, I can't believe how much time we've eaten up already. So 80 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:09,759 do you have what do we have any current events you want to talk about 81 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,720 in the UFO world? Well, the big talk right now, there's really 82 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:19,680 two things. One is the storm Area fifty one. Oh yeah, debakable, 83 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:24,560 and I'm sure you've said so much about that on your show at this 84 00:07:24,639 --> 00:07:28,680 point. But at the same time that that's being covered, we also have 85 00:07:28,879 --> 00:07:32,279 kind of the opposite side of the spectrum is the Navy admitting that a lot 86 00:07:32,279 --> 00:07:38,319 of the UFO footage that has come out and been released lately is legit. 87 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:43,160 And I find I kind of find it interesting to see those stories juggled on 88 00:07:43,199 --> 00:07:47,360 the press by the press, one being really making uphology and this whole thing 89 00:07:47,439 --> 00:07:50,519 look bad, which is the whole Storm Area fifty one thing, and then 90 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:54,240 the other adding, you know, credibility to us. So I kind of 91 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:58,600 find it interesting to see how that's all handled right right now. John Greenwald 92 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:01,680 actually is the one that kind of spawned that whole conversation with the Navy, 93 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,000 which I think is pretty amazing. I don't know how much credit he has 94 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:11,639 been given, but basically it was his communication with the Navy. They admitted 95 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:16,360 it with him and a document. So good for him for he's really shaking 96 00:08:16,399 --> 00:08:22,000 some branches and some interesting stuff that's falling up. He's shaking some interesting branches. 97 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:26,680 Yes, there's a lot of people that have different opinions about some of 98 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,160 the documents, but you know, I have a feeling, you know, 99 00:08:30,199 --> 00:08:33,120 he's just looking for the truth. That's that's what I you know, that's 100 00:08:33,159 --> 00:08:37,279 my thoughts about what John's doing. But anyway about STOREM Area fifty one, 101 00:08:37,519 --> 00:08:41,399 what type of have you you looked into it? You know, what type 102 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:45,679 of turnout? I know it was in several different places. Did you find 103 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:50,360 out anything about that? Yeah? I was watching it all as it unfolded, 104 00:08:50,399 --> 00:08:54,600 basically since since the very beginning of the whole movement or whatever you want 105 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:58,960 to call it. But there was a lot of infighting between the original person 106 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:05,440 who started the Facebook group or Facebook event that had the million people agreeing to 107 00:09:05,639 --> 00:09:09,080 storm area fifty one and Find the Aliens. The guy who started that had 108 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:16,720 partnered with a local business basically to organize an event to basically like a UFO 109 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:20,440 type festival, sort of like a woodstock thing, but it seemed like they 110 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:24,159 had a pretty big falling out. Eventually. There was kind of three separate 111 00:09:24,159 --> 00:09:30,159 events planned. One was in Las Vegas, but in the end at Area 112 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,360 fifty one, a couple hundred people showed up. A lot of the photos 113 00:09:33,399 --> 00:09:37,759 I saw were almost embarrassing, a big parking lot with you know, basically 114 00:09:37,799 --> 00:09:41,799 empty save for a few cars, and you know, it seemed like everybody 115 00:09:41,799 --> 00:09:46,519 that was there was more like kind of like a YouTuber type. There was, 116 00:09:46,759 --> 00:09:48,080 you know, any pictures you see. It's like everybody has a camera 117 00:09:48,279 --> 00:09:52,360 filming themselves. So I think a lot of the people that showed up, 118 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,279 you know, it were more so people showing up to kind of document what 119 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:58,639 was happening. And you know, the million or so people on Facebook who 120 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:03,240 were gonna go, you know, just to do something, they didn't seem 121 00:10:03,279 --> 00:10:07,120 to show up. But I think it's it's definitely for the better. While 122 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:11,120 I do two and I think there was enough people you know saying putting the 123 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:16,639 warnings out there of what could happen, and you know, plea actually there's 124 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:20,759 was many pleads don't go, you know, don't come here. Rachel said, 125 00:10:20,879 --> 00:10:22,960 you know, they really didn't want anyone. They are a town of 126 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,960 fifty people. You know, they have no infrastructure for to handle anything like 127 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:30,080 that. So I guess that's good. But I do know there were some 128 00:10:30,279 --> 00:10:33,279 you know, music fests. There was even in Las Vegas, not just 129 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:37,399 not just the area around Area fifty one. There was a couple of events 130 00:10:37,399 --> 00:10:41,399 going on. I just haven't heard what the turnout. I think one of 131 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:45,600 the turnouts was about three thousand people, but I don't know of the other. 132 00:10:45,639 --> 00:10:50,039 I think there were two more other events that you know, was celebrating. 133 00:10:50,799 --> 00:10:56,840 All of them were disappointing turnouts. And it's it's kind of a shame 134 00:10:56,879 --> 00:11:01,559 because you know, there's so many UFO conventions and festivals and stuff across Canada 135 00:11:01,639 --> 00:11:05,000 and the United States. It would be really cool if there was one event 136 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:09,840 that kind of everybody agreed to and you know, and it was really something 137 00:11:09,919 --> 00:11:13,360 special. I don't think that event should be held in the middle of the 138 00:11:13,399 --> 00:11:18,879 desert near a you know, a US military base, but it's a you 139 00:11:18,879 --> 00:11:22,559 know, it had it would have needed to take a different direction from the 140 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:26,559 very beginning, and this was you know, it's just I think it was 141 00:11:26,639 --> 00:11:31,000 kind of an embarrassment. And it's one of those things that when you talk 142 00:11:31,039 --> 00:11:33,840 to people that are kind of like the layman too the topic and you talk 143 00:11:33,879 --> 00:11:39,399 about being interested in UFOs and you know, all these related topics, hopefully 144 00:11:39,399 --> 00:11:43,200 they don't think about, you know, I hope you're one of those nuts 145 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,320 that we're going to storm area fifty one. Yeah, you know, it's 146 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:50,679 funny. I've I've had a couple of relatives because they know I'm into the 147 00:11:50,759 --> 00:11:54,399 UFO topic, like, well, what do you think about that? And 148 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:56,759 you know, and it's like, I think it's actually I think it's foolish. 149 00:11:58,159 --> 00:12:01,799 For if someone actually thought they were going to storm area fifty you know, 150 00:12:01,919 --> 00:12:07,840 area fifty one and actually break in, it just was not It was 151 00:12:07,879 --> 00:12:11,440 not a good call. And you know, after Facebook took down the site 152 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:15,320 and then they put it back up because you know, the the person who 153 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,159 initiated it was saying, you know, really let's make it something else. 154 00:12:18,759 --> 00:12:22,480 M But I mean, I was glad that actually Facebook took it down because 155 00:12:22,519 --> 00:12:26,840 there there was someone asking everyone to do something illegal basically, you know, 156 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,320 yeah, what I thought was interesting, and this story hasn't really been told 157 00:12:31,399 --> 00:12:37,399 very much, is you know, there's so much discussion around Bob Lazar and 158 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:41,200 whether or not he's legit or whatnot, But it turns out he really had 159 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:45,679 a lot to do with this whole Storm Area fifty one thing, which is 160 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,759 a you know, in the Storm Area fifty one is a massive story. 161 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:54,039 But it seemed like that documentary Jeremy Corbell did with Bob Lazar that came out 162 00:12:54,720 --> 00:13:00,559 and that generated some buzz. But then when Jeremy Corbel and Bob Lazzar went 163 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,440 on the Joe Rogan podcast, I know, I don't know if that was 164 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:09,960 what led to all of this action, but I was. I listened to 165 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:13,639 that podcast just recently to hear Bob Lazar talk to Joe Rogan, and near 166 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:18,600 the end of the interview, Bob Lazar said, you know, like I 167 00:13:18,639 --> 00:13:20,360 don't I don't know if it's a good idea for me to even have done 168 00:13:20,399 --> 00:13:24,919 this, like everything every time I opened my mouth that it creates problems. 169 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:28,480 And Joe Rogan said in response, like no, this is different, this 170 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:30,519 is going to be good. You know, people are going to hear your 171 00:13:30,519 --> 00:13:33,120 side of the story, and you know, and I was just listening to 172 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:35,360 that a couple days ago, and I'm thinking, like, Bob Lazar is 173 00:13:35,399 --> 00:13:39,320 probably looking at this storm very fifty one nonsense, and yeah, you know 174 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,200 I should have shut up. Yeah, well, I know. I hope 175 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,440 our guests are being patient. We are. At least we're skipping the first 176 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:50,960 commercial break, so he'll have we'll have some extra minutes there. But anyway, 177 00:13:50,799 --> 00:13:56,799 I personally thought that, you know, I always get email after I 178 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:58,240 say something like this, but I'm gonna say it anyway. I personally thought 179 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:03,120 that, you know, Joe Rogan was buying Bob Lazar one percent. And 180 00:14:03,159 --> 00:14:09,279 I just feel like Bob Lazar is being pushed at us to believe his story, 181 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:11,679 which I still don't And I just don't buy his story. But that's 182 00:14:11,759 --> 00:14:16,120 my own personal opinion. I know there's a lot of things that have run 183 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:20,840 true, that he has been evolved in that he talked about, but overall, 184 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:26,120 I just feel like we're being forced to believe his story and I don't 185 00:14:26,159 --> 00:14:30,279 buy it. I just don't buy it. It's got to me. It's 186 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:35,159 got a bit of the almost like the Nostrodamis of upology, where he said 187 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,840 so much stuff that every so often you know things, it just works out 188 00:14:37,879 --> 00:14:41,720 and that it comes true. So if you cherry pick what he got right, 189 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,480 he's doing pretty good. Yeah, excellent. That's a very good point, 190 00:14:46,879 --> 00:14:48,600 Jordan. As always, it's always fun to talk to you, whether 191 00:14:48,639 --> 00:14:52,480 we're talking on the phone or on a podcast. It's always a lot of 192 00:14:52,519 --> 00:14:56,120 fun. Thank you so much. And why don't you throw out there where 193 00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:00,639 people can listen to your show. If you search the Nighttime Podcast or go 194 00:15:00,679 --> 00:15:03,559 to Nighttime podcast dot com, anywhere you can get podcast UFO, you can 195 00:15:03,559 --> 00:15:09,360 get my show. With the exception of KGr A Radio. Right, that's 196 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,399 not going to happen because you are under contract. But anyway, thanks so 197 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:15,480 much. Thanks for having me, Martin. All right, you take care 198 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:20,360 you do all right. Our guest this evening is Dan Wright. And Dan 199 00:15:20,519 --> 00:15:26,039 joined the mutual UFO network move On back in nineteen seventy eight. Thereafter, 200 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:31,879 he served variously on its staff and board of directors. As the organization's deputy 201 00:15:31,919 --> 00:15:35,960 director, he oversaw thousands of UFO investigations across North America. We're gonna talk 202 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:41,080 a little bit about that, he wrote, three chapters for the muf ON 203 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:46,679 Field Investigators Manual. So that's interesting. And for five years he conducted a 204 00:15:46,799 --> 00:15:54,320 muf ON project to transcribe and analyze regressive hypnosis sessions related to possible alien abductions. 205 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:56,360 I find that very interesting as well. Welcome to the show, Dan. 206 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:02,559 Thanks, it's really good to be with you, and thanks for being 207 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:06,639 patient. As I mentioned before, we are going to sail all the way 208 00:16:06,679 --> 00:16:10,440 through to our our one for a break, so we have no break, 209 00:16:10,519 --> 00:16:14,440 so it's a little bit extra of a show. And again I think if 210 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:18,200 your patient's waiting in the background for us. So, Dan, I was 211 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:23,840 curious about the Area fifty one discussion. Oh okay, folks should know that 212 00:16:25,279 --> 00:16:30,960 years ago all of the saucers and beings and everything were moved to Utah to 213 00:16:30,639 --> 00:16:36,840 a place that's now called Area fifty two. I could have I thought, 214 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:42,360 that's what happened. I love that. Yeah, that's that's really good. 215 00:16:42,519 --> 00:16:47,960 Yeah, yeah, all right. I like the way this is starting already, 216 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:52,320 Dan, So what is here? What got you involved in the UFO 217 00:16:52,399 --> 00:16:56,679 topic? What sparked your interest to begin with? Oh okay, I'll take 218 00:16:56,679 --> 00:17:02,679 a deep breath. This goes back to my father and nineteen sixty seven, 219 00:17:02,799 --> 00:17:07,559 he was a truck driver. He drove an eighteen wheeler but hauling bread two 220 00:17:08,559 --> 00:17:14,720 terminals outlets where and from there they were taken to grocery stores. But he 221 00:17:14,839 --> 00:17:21,400 was a full fledged eighteen wheel truck driver, and he very routinely, like 222 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:27,799 three times a week, went up the Lake Michigan coast. We're from Michigan. 223 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:32,440 We're the only ones in America who can show you where we live by 224 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:38,599 holding up a right hand, the mitten pomp facing your face, so he'd 225 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:44,279 be going up the outside of my hand up the little finger, and it 226 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:48,880 was a US Highway one thirty one. He had done this literally hundreds of 227 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:53,799 times, if not a thousand. He knew every yard light, every tractor 228 00:17:53,839 --> 00:17:59,720 path off the road. On this particular night, he had dumped his load 229 00:17:59,799 --> 00:18:04,559 and was coming back down US one thirty one going south when he noticed he 230 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:08,640 had earlier noticed that there was a full moon, kind of a harvest moon, 231 00:18:10,079 --> 00:18:14,319 out to the west over Lake Michigan. But now to the east he 232 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:22,200 saw something that was kind of mimicking that moon. It was spherical and it 233 00:18:22,319 --> 00:18:30,359 was amber to orange coloration. He was trying to judge how far away it 234 00:18:30,519 --> 00:18:33,279 was so he could tell how big it was. He took it to be 235 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:40,000 like house sized, and by that he would mean his own bungalow, which 236 00:18:40,039 --> 00:18:45,960 was about twenty five thirty feet in diameter, and it was pulsating. Over 237 00:18:47,079 --> 00:18:52,480 about seven seconds, it would go from very bright to dimming, dimming, 238 00:18:52,599 --> 00:18:56,440 dimming, until there was just a ring of light around the outside with a 239 00:18:56,519 --> 00:19:02,200 dark center, and then in another seven seconds it would go back to brightness. 240 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:07,079 And he thought that was pretty strange. He's the only one on the 241 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:11,400 road, and he was hoping that he'd come across another motorist that he could 242 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:17,559 flash his lights too, but he didn't. And finally, after about fifteen 243 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:21,960 miles, this thing has stayed right even with his truck, and he thinks 244 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:26,079 about a quarter mile away, going over farm fields and just oh maybe twenty 245 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:32,559 feet off the ground. He finally decided to pull his truck over onto the 246 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:41,039 shoulder and just sat in his cab with the window down, staring at this 247 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:45,240 thing which was doing nothing but this brightening and dimming. When there was a 248 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:49,279 huge pounding on the ride or door of his truck that sent his head to 249 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:53,000 the ceiling. It was a motorist who had been trying to catch up with 250 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:57,440 this ball of light, and he had pulled up behind my dad's truck, 251 00:19:57,799 --> 00:20:02,880 so they got out by the side of it and just stared for a couple 252 00:20:02,839 --> 00:20:06,920 of minutes. My dad finally said, I've got a gun in the truck. 253 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:11,480 I carry money sometimes, so i'm authorized, and I don't think I 254 00:20:11,519 --> 00:20:15,599 could pull my truck into it. But I know, just up here fifty 255 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,960 yards there's a tractor path into that field. We could get into your car 256 00:20:19,079 --> 00:20:23,279 and get really close to this thing. And the other guy said, you 257 00:20:23,319 --> 00:20:26,839 know, I think I'm about as close as I want to beat right now. 258 00:20:29,039 --> 00:20:33,400 He just barely had those words out of his mouth when in an instant 259 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:38,759 it approached from a quarter mile away to within a hundred yards silently, the 260 00:20:38,839 --> 00:20:42,279 old pulsating. Well. That put the other guy over the edge. He 261 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:48,839 threw gravel with his tires getting out of there. My dad he had been 262 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,160 a World War Two veteran. He was a kind of a tough guy. 263 00:20:52,839 --> 00:20:57,799 But with the other guy gone, he didn't have quite enough courage to walk 264 00:20:57,839 --> 00:21:03,119 into that field by self, so he finally started up the truck again, 265 00:21:03,839 --> 00:21:07,720 went up over a long hill, and he looked in his rear view mirror 266 00:21:07,759 --> 00:21:12,680 as he reached the crest, and it had stayed over that field. So 267 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,759 a dock worker back at the bakery said, you look like you've seen a 268 00:21:17,799 --> 00:21:23,599 ghost. That morning, instead of his standard routine of eating breakfast and then 269 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:29,160 going to bed, he ate breakfast and then went to a bookstore and he 270 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:34,359 bought every UFO book on their shelves. Over the years, he started passing 271 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:38,880 them on to me. I was a junior in college when this occurred. 272 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:41,960 I was home a couple of weeks later and I heard the story and I 273 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:48,640 thought, well, that's strange, but I didn't have any compelling notion about 274 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:53,119 it. But over the years he was passing these books on to me and 275 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,680 I was reading them, and finally, by seventy eight, I said, 276 00:21:56,759 --> 00:22:00,279 you know, I think I want to be part of the solution to this 277 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:06,400 thing. So I joined move On because, unlike the Center for UFO Studies, 278 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:11,039 move On did actual investigations. And I started as a local investigator and 279 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:15,559 then became a state director for several years, and then I was appointed to 280 00:22:15,559 --> 00:22:21,839 the move On board of directors and it carried on from there. Wow. 281 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:27,279 That same year of seventy eight, I had two close encounters of my own, 282 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:33,880 just nineteen days apart, and I'll try to handle these quickly. The 283 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:40,480 first one occurred as I was driving with a I was riding with a driver 284 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:47,519 on I ninety four, which connects Detroit and Chicago, and we were in 285 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:52,799 the corn fields near not too far from Battle Creek, just moving along, 286 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,319 headed toward Kalamazoo, where we were going to pick up on some work the 287 00:22:56,359 --> 00:23:04,599 next day when I saw something approaching us. It was beyond the eastbound lanes 288 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,799 and kind of a line of trees at so often interstates have, but I 289 00:23:08,799 --> 00:23:15,359 could tell with glimpses of it that this wasn't a regular aircraft. It had 290 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,839 two red lights, as if you would have a red light on each wingtip, 291 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:26,279 while that would violate FAA rules. So I told her to stop the 292 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:30,640 car, and she pulled off. And I'll always think until the day I 293 00:23:30,759 --> 00:23:36,279 died, that this thing reacted to our stopping the car, because it made 294 00:23:36,319 --> 00:23:41,559 a very tight left turn and came right down over us, just maybe two 295 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:47,759 hundred feet above us. It was what some people call a boomerang, others 296 00:23:47,799 --> 00:23:51,480 say a triangle, and I understand why because the shape of it, it 297 00:23:51,599 --> 00:23:56,880 kind of splits the difference. The backside of it is kind of indented, 298 00:23:56,279 --> 00:24:02,480 but it was oh as big, were bigger than a B fifty two in 299 00:24:02,599 --> 00:24:07,759 this triangle shape. It was all black, kind of a charcoal black. 300 00:24:07,839 --> 00:24:14,480 There was no door, no window, no insignia. It was just a 301 00:24:14,559 --> 00:24:18,400 mass. And as it passed over us, a couple of hundred feet up, 302 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:23,720 it was only doing maybe twenty miles an hour. It went over a 303 00:24:23,759 --> 00:24:30,240 farm field that had just been harvested from corn, and it did such an 304 00:24:30,279 --> 00:24:37,720 incredible turnaround there, a circular motion but using only a matter of several feet, 305 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:45,319 almost like a ballerinas pirouette. And by now it's doing jogging speed, 306 00:24:45,799 --> 00:24:49,599 and it moved over a little clump of trees in the middle of that field 307 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:56,160 and just stopped and hovered silent. Well. As it was in the midst 308 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:00,920 of performing that, the woman shouted at me, run Dan, run after 309 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:06,640 it. And at the time I was a roadrunner, so I thought, 310 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,519 yeah, great idea. And I'm looking kind of up at it as I 311 00:25:10,559 --> 00:25:15,480 start running forward, forgetting that every interstate has a wire fence, and I 312 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:21,759 bounded off that like a tramp lane, landed on my butt, and my 313 00:25:21,839 --> 00:25:27,039 first thought was great, I just really impressed those people. Whoever's in to 314 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:33,759 beat us up, Scottie, there's no intelligent life on you. But at 315 00:25:33,759 --> 00:25:38,880 the same time as that embarrassment, I was getting a queasy feeling that was 316 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:45,000 certainly it wasn't external. It was just me feeling like, I don't know 317 00:25:45,079 --> 00:25:49,000 if I should try to climb this fence and walk over to it. It's 318 00:25:49,559 --> 00:25:53,680 I'm not supposed to do that. I'm supposed to just stand here and watch 319 00:25:53,759 --> 00:25:59,200 this. Finally, I saw tail lights of a car on a dirt road 320 00:25:59,279 --> 00:26:03,880 that was set back a couple of hundred yards from the interstate, and I 321 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:08,599 took a chance that that was also somebody taking in this event. I raced 322 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:18,640 down that corn roll and found a forty Ish man and his adolescent son outside 323 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,400 their car and looking at this same boomerang, if you will, so as 324 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:27,519 I was telling them the early part of this how the woman and I came 325 00:26:27,599 --> 00:26:34,640 to encounter it, it very slowly started moving jogging speed, and then fifteen 326 00:26:34,759 --> 00:26:40,079 or twenty and so I picked up speed, staying very close to the ground 327 00:26:40,559 --> 00:26:44,759 until it was out of sight. That was the end of event. One 328 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,759 Number two happened two weeks and five days later. It's a Friday night, 329 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:55,640 and I was hooked up at that point early on. I'm very green as 330 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,640 an investigator, only been with move On for a matter of months, but 331 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:07,480 I was hooked up with the local police departments and state police airports. They 332 00:27:07,519 --> 00:27:11,920 don't want these calls, and move On does, so it's a nice arrangement. 333 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:18,599 I got three calls through the Lansing Police in about ten minutes on this 334 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:25,200 Friday evening. They were all talking about an individual red light like volleyball or 335 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:33,119 basketball side that was floating and hovering around a major river that goes through Lansing 336 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,640 the capitol. I lived in a town about ten miles west of Lancing, 337 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,720 so I went out into my backyard as dusk was falling, thinking, wow, 338 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:48,960 maybe I'll get lucky, or I'll figure out that this is something normal, 339 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:53,839 that's you know, where most of our investigations lead, something that I 340 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:59,880 can explain to them. So as I was watching, and stars or start 341 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:04,240 to pop out as the darkness is falling, What I thought were two stars 342 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:11,920 suddenly started moving. One looked like it was going down, but actually in 343 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:17,880 retrospect, it was moving away, and so the appearance was that it was 344 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:22,079 lowering in the sky. The other one looked like it was rising, and 345 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:27,559 that's because it was coming closer to where I lived and rising up in my 346 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:33,519 From my perspective, as it got closer, I could tell this is not 347 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:38,160 one light. This is four lights. And they're in a square about ten 348 00:28:38,279 --> 00:28:44,880 feet to a side. At opposite corners were two red lights and two green 349 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:52,839 lights, and they were blinking at just about this pace blink. They went 350 00:28:52,039 --> 00:28:56,839 past my town and continued west. Well, again, I didn't know a 351 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:02,000 whole lot about the UFO subject, but I knew that every airplane in the 352 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:10,240 world could have only one green light that had two. So I shouted into 353 00:29:10,519 --> 00:29:15,799 my then wife, who is so taken by this subject that she went back 354 00:29:15,839 --> 00:29:23,880 in to do the dishes, and she was really envious of my interest in 355 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,200 this. And people out there are nodding, yeah, those who have been 356 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:36,599 involved in UFO investigations. It can strain a relationship. So I shouted in, 357 00:29:36,759 --> 00:29:40,960 I've got a drive, and I jumped into my Mustang and tore out 358 00:29:41,079 --> 00:29:48,039 onto the road going farther west. By now, these lights are most of 359 00:29:48,079 --> 00:29:52,920 a half mile ahead of me, and I'm straining with my eyes. I 360 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:56,160 did have good vision, trying to figure out what these lights were at catched 361 00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,519 to, and I finally realized they're not a tag to anything. They're just 362 00:30:00,839 --> 00:30:08,920 four volleyball sized lights at about ten feet apart that are floating along down over 363 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:15,720 this road. As we got close to another village some seven miles west of 364 00:30:15,839 --> 00:30:21,759 my house, suddenly, as we were approaching that, the lights shot across 365 00:30:21,839 --> 00:30:26,079 the road at an angle. This little village is set back from the road 366 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:32,079 about fifty yards or so, and as it went over that little one block 367 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:38,160 business district, as it were of the village, the whole sky from the 368 00:30:38,319 --> 00:30:45,160 ground to many thousands of feet up lit up for an instant that gave me 369 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,400 the impression, well, they just took a flash photo of this village, 370 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:55,799 which is just a nothing place. But the lights kept going on a northwest 371 00:30:55,839 --> 00:30:59,960 direction, and I knew the road went straight west, so Iden's going to 372 00:31:00,079 --> 00:31:03,640 have to get off it if I was still going to chase these things. 373 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:07,079 So I found a gravel road to the north, and then one to the 374 00:31:07,119 --> 00:31:11,680 west, and another north and so on. But in the process, I'm 375 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:17,359 falling farther and farther behind these lights. As they say, how the crow 376 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:22,839 flies that the lights were going straight, and I wasn't. The roads were 377 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:27,400 very rolling. I'm doing way too fast, hoping I don't encounter another car 378 00:31:27,559 --> 00:31:33,799 coming the other way. When after several minutes of this, and I'm questioning, 379 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,279 Dan, you're putting your life at risk now is this worth it? 380 00:31:38,319 --> 00:31:44,240 And I'm thinking that over when I came into a clearing and there they were 381 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:49,519 hovering over a farm field and I pulled off onto a driveway. There was 382 00:31:49,559 --> 00:31:56,640 a farmhouse way back that was dark. I pulled my car into an angle 383 00:31:56,759 --> 00:32:02,480 to face these lights. And I knew nothing about Morse code, but I 384 00:32:02,559 --> 00:32:08,160 started flashing my headlights over and over in the same pattern, kind of mimicking 385 00:32:08,279 --> 00:32:15,680 Morse code, thinking I want to get something other than this monotonous red green 386 00:32:15,839 --> 00:32:21,240 blinking. But that did no good. So after some three minutes or five 387 00:32:21,319 --> 00:32:24,160 minutes of that, I thought, well, it's time to do what you 388 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:29,079 always said you do on the interstate. You didn't walk over to him, 389 00:32:29,759 --> 00:32:34,480 walk over to this. So I opened the door of my Mustang and I 390 00:32:34,559 --> 00:32:39,240 stood up between the body and the car door, and like bam, my 391 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:45,680 mind went blank. I don't know how long I stood there in that same 392 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:49,000 spot between the body and the door of my car. Could have been a 393 00:32:49,039 --> 00:32:53,519 minute, could have been an hour. When I came to consciousness again, 394 00:32:55,039 --> 00:32:59,640 you know, I'm confused, thinking what the hell was that? Where did 395 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,559 the light go? They're not in front of me anymore, and I whirled 396 00:33:02,599 --> 00:33:08,519 around instinctively, and now they're behind me in an adjacent field, still just 397 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:14,960 over the ground, ten twelve feet up, still blinking red and green. 398 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:21,480 The thought of walking over to them does not occur to me again. Instead, 399 00:33:21,559 --> 00:33:28,079 I got another queasy feeling. I'm intruding on something. Whoever's behind these 400 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:32,079 lights, they've got an agenda, and I'm holding them up. I've got 401 00:33:32,119 --> 00:33:37,839 to drive home, started my car and drove away. And I've probably been 402 00:33:38,319 --> 00:33:45,599 asked by jaw A Gate people a hundred times since then. You confronted a 403 00:33:45,759 --> 00:33:52,640 UFO and you drove away. Yes I did, Yes I did. But 404 00:33:52,039 --> 00:34:00,119 that while it was visually, it was less stunning than that aginal boomerang or 405 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:06,359 triangle, the same one that was responsible for the Hudson Valley sightings in the 406 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,559 eighty two eighty three. I just happened to see it a little earlier in 407 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:19,679 seventy eight. But yeah, that was the second one real played on me. 408 00:34:20,559 --> 00:34:27,320 It bothered me to the point I had to stay in this avocation for 409 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:32,079 the rest of my life. Wow. Interesting, you know you talk about 410 00:34:32,119 --> 00:34:37,760 this square. I had a friend that had an encounter of like a square 411 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:45,519 like box shaped object. Now that started out as looking like a craft and 412 00:34:45,559 --> 00:34:52,559 then he basically said it eventually looked like exploded into I think he said five 413 00:34:52,679 --> 00:34:58,039 lights that made a formation and we're reacting to each other, which is such 414 00:34:58,039 --> 00:35:02,679 a bizarre story. But you don't hair of too many like square type objects. 415 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:07,800 I think Jan Harrison had had something of the orange thing square or something 416 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,159 like that. But you don't hear of a lot of square type objects. 417 00:35:10,559 --> 00:35:15,199 Right right in Lancing when I was starting out investigating, there was a family 418 00:35:15,679 --> 00:35:21,519 that had an encounter with a shoe box, as they put it, shaped 419 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:28,119 object. It was perhaps twenty feet by thirty feet. It was big. 420 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:37,079 The one of their children was outside feeding one of their dogs and noticed a 421 00:35:37,159 --> 00:35:42,039 reflection in the dog's eyes and looked up and this thing is going right overhead. 422 00:35:42,079 --> 00:35:46,440 The bottom of it was hundreds They thought of lights, but it was 423 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:51,960 shoebox shaped. And this was on the west side of Lancing. It continued 424 00:35:52,199 --> 00:35:57,840 very slowly to a GM plant that was there and it was last seen hovering 425 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:04,039 over one of the buildings of the GM factory. Interesting, we haven't even 426 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,559 ordinary people with extraordinary accounts, that's right, you know, we haven't even 427 00:36:07,599 --> 00:36:12,360 really touched on anything about what your books about yet. I definitely want to 428 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,840 get into that. But before I do, just a question. You started 429 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:22,199 move On back in nineteen seventy eight. What was move On like then compared 430 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,400 to now? Was it basically the same? You know, if you took 431 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:30,280 away all the it wasn't a lot different. It had been founded in sixty 432 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:37,440 nine by Walt Andreas, who was an engineer I believe, from Motorola, 433 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:43,199 first in near Missouri, I think in Illinois, but near Missouri, and 434 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:49,239 then his job got switched to Texas and so he took the organization with him 435 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:54,880 there. It had grown rather quickly up to about a thousand or so, 436 00:36:55,119 --> 00:37:01,000 and then it just stayed about that same number for number of years. Now. 437 00:37:01,199 --> 00:37:05,960 I think there's about thirty five hundred in the organization, but it's never 438 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:13,039 been huge. From the very beginning, they had an annual conference that they 439 00:37:13,079 --> 00:37:17,239 call a symposium. It's more formal than a lot of conferences where there are 440 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:23,800 ten or a dozen speakers, they would do this every year, but other 441 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:30,639 than that, it was left to the individual state organizations. I had an 442 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:34,360 organization that was I got up to about fifty members, I guess, and 443 00:37:35,119 --> 00:37:40,119 it advanced from there after I left it, and we had quarterly meetings. 444 00:37:40,159 --> 00:37:45,719 You know, you don't want to overwhelm people with the subject, but they 445 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:52,800 want to get together frequently. Move On always had a monthly periodical called the 446 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:58,480 UFO Journal, and that is still going now after we just celebrated our fiftieth 447 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:04,360 anniversaries and organization this summer. Yeah, that's all. It's the short answer 448 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,239 is it's not a lot different than it ever was. Uh uh huh. 449 00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:13,639 And let's let's talk about your book, because I would like to know the 450 00:38:13,679 --> 00:38:16,719 genesis of what madd you, what made you, you know, dive into 451 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:22,280 this first of all. But let's talk about what the CIA lead. The 452 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:29,440 title is the title, It starts with the and there's no possessive word, 453 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:36,519 and it's it's the CIA UFO Papers. I'm sorry, I got that. 454 00:38:36,559 --> 00:38:38,960 And it's on Amazon. It's not what it is some bookstores now, but 455 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:44,639 you can find it on Amazon. I don't have the IBN on me right 456 00:38:44,639 --> 00:38:50,679 now, but just my name Dan Wright and the UFO, I mean the 457 00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:54,000 CIA UFO papers. I got you saying it wrung, so I just I 458 00:38:54,119 --> 00:38:59,559 just put it up on YouTube. I just put it up in the genesis 459 00:38:59,559 --> 00:39:06,920 of that is. I will always thank Barack Obama that in the final weeks 460 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:15,639 of his presidency he directed the CIA to go to the National Archives where they 461 00:39:15,639 --> 00:39:23,880 had put UFO CIA related UFO research papers for many years. These were documents 462 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:30,320 that had once been classified had been released under FOYA, but to view them 463 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:37,000 you had to go to the National Archives and use one of their four desktop 464 00:39:37,079 --> 00:39:45,880 computers. You couldn't copy anything. It was just cumbersome, and so Obama 465 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:51,840 directed them to put all the stuff on their own website, the CIA website, 466 00:39:52,599 --> 00:39:59,280 which they did and then some I heard about this. It was January 467 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:09,519 seventeen of twenty seventeen when this all that transfer occurred. I phoned Jan Harzon, 468 00:40:09,639 --> 00:40:15,119 now the international director or the executive director of moufon and figuring that he 469 00:40:15,199 --> 00:40:22,119 was already putting a group together, I would join the effort to see what 470 00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:25,920 there was to be seen from these files. And Jan said, well, 471 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:30,679 actually there is no such group, but you're free to create one. So 472 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:36,079 I thought well, before I start prevailing on other people to put in a 473 00:40:36,119 --> 00:40:38,079 great deal of effort on this, i'd better get the lay of the land. 474 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:45,480 I opened up now. The CIA had said that they had just released 475 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:51,920 a million pages on UFOs. Well, it wasn't a million pages of anything. 476 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:57,559 It was about one hundred and twenty thousand maybe pages of something. But 477 00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:04,639 as I started pouring into my started shaking my head. Everything under the sun 478 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:09,719 was in these files, virtually none of it. Two percent of it was 479 00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:16,440 actually UFO related. If you wanted to know all about Bulgaria's rail tonnage in 480 00:41:16,559 --> 00:41:23,199 nineteen fifty six, it was there, but UFOs not so much. So 481 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:30,400 it took me five months of just sorting and reading to get all through all 482 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:35,400 the chaff and find the wheat. And I ended up with five hundred fifty 483 00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:40,719 documents that at least in part were UFO related. Most of these were reports 484 00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:47,360 sent in from various places in Europe and North Africa on what was happening locally, 485 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:57,159 what locals had seen in the sky. So I called back to Jan 486 00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,840 Harrison has said, you know, it's not such a big deal that I 487 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:06,559 have to have a group for this. I think I'll since I'm already started. 488 00:42:06,559 --> 00:42:12,119 I'll just go ahead with it and see where it goes. The book 489 00:42:12,199 --> 00:42:19,840 came together quite quickly from there. I was a career researcher and and technical 490 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:24,920 writer, and so a writing of a book that way wasn't a big deal 491 00:42:25,039 --> 00:42:30,920 for me. And in seven months I got it finished and Jan found us 492 00:42:30,559 --> 00:42:37,000 a publisher of Esoteric Material, and it went from there. And what's your 493 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:42,880 response since you've had the book out? Have you had a lot of good 494 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:49,599 feedback? Since it's been out? Nobody has written to me or phoned me 495 00:42:49,679 --> 00:42:53,559 to say, Wow. Well, a couple of friends did. But I've 496 00:42:53,559 --> 00:43:01,039 been doing podcasts and AM radio since then, and I don't know what the 497 00:43:01,119 --> 00:43:05,559 audience is, you know. I guess they say, sure, this is 498 00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:09,000 this is cool, this is strange. But it wasn't anything that they didn't 499 00:43:09,039 --> 00:43:15,400 already suspect of the CIA. Now, did you were there any any big 500 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:22,760 surprises that you found in those five hundred plus documents? Wow? Yes, 501 00:43:23,039 --> 00:43:29,559 one the major surprise for me. I shouldn't have been surprised. There was 502 00:43:29,599 --> 00:43:37,400 an office within the CIA called the Office of Scientific Intelligence OSI, and they 503 00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:43,440 were made responsible for all things you have but were related over the years that 504 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:49,559 when it first formed in the early fifties, the CIA formed in the late 505 00:43:49,639 --> 00:43:54,639 forties, and by the early fifties this OSI is up and running roughshot. 506 00:43:57,079 --> 00:44:04,559 We were also in a Cold war the Russians. OSI was mostly, if 507 00:44:04,599 --> 00:44:09,280 you count up the heads, mostly cynical about the CIA about the UFO subject. 508 00:44:09,599 --> 00:44:16,320 But there were always a few and indecision making capacities that wanted to know 509 00:44:16,559 --> 00:44:23,079 more. So they never got out of the business, but they insisted always 510 00:44:23,079 --> 00:44:29,880 on anonymity. They saw what was happening to Project Blue Book in the Air 511 00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:35,679 Force being made into a laughing stock over UFOs, and the CIA was not 512 00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:42,280 about to be the intelligence community's blue book. So while they were interested, 513 00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:51,360 and in fact in fifty three set up a group of scientists mainly to look 514 00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:59,440 at a series of prominent cases, and these were all quote unquote non believers, 515 00:45:01,159 --> 00:45:08,639 they insisted that the name CIA or any mention of the agency be kept 516 00:45:08,679 --> 00:45:15,960 out of any written material. That has never wavered. I'll bet even today 517 00:45:15,599 --> 00:45:22,960 the CIA has somebody or a few somebodies looking at the latest evidence. They 518 00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:27,039 won't let it go, but they will deny in court that they've ever been 519 00:45:27,079 --> 00:45:32,239 interested. Yeah, I don't doubt that at all. Nineteen fifty two a 520 00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:37,880 lot was going on. Why is that considered a pivotal year when it comes 521 00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:47,360 to Yeah, after Roswell and Kenneth Arnold sighting in the Cascades that coined the 522 00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:53,559 term flying saucers. The rest of forty seven had all kinds of reports coming 523 00:45:53,599 --> 00:46:00,679 in from the public about saucers and other kinds of craft, mostly saucers. 524 00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:07,679 But after say, early forty eight, the whole subject just died down. 525 00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:14,079 Forty nine fifty fifty one, there were virtually no reports from the public, 526 00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:21,280 and so the CIA could breathe a sigh of relief, like, man, 527 00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:28,239 we don't have to shut these things down with cynical talk. The public has 528 00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:36,159 just learned that they're not UFOs at all. They're ifos. They're identifiable flying 529 00:46:36,199 --> 00:46:45,000 objects. They are venus and mars. They're conventional aircrafts and meteors and ball 530 00:46:45,119 --> 00:46:51,400 lightning and the whole nine yards of ifos. But they felt that they had 531 00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:58,639 a good handle on the whole thing. And then fifty two occurred. All 532 00:46:58,679 --> 00:47:04,159 over the world. There was suddenly a whole bunch of activity. It started 533 00:47:04,199 --> 00:47:12,119 in March. By now the OSI had put together a report, a form 534 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:22,760 called information from Foreign documents or radio broadcasts if DRB a classic stumbling over themselves 535 00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:30,320 to name a form, but and these would be filled out by operatives around 536 00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:37,000 the world, mostly in Europe. Again in North Africa operatives otherwise known as 537 00:47:37,159 --> 00:47:44,760 spooks or spies. When they weren't busy with something Russia related, they would 538 00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:52,320 pass along that locals had seen UFOs. In late April, on the same 539 00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:59,159 day there were all of these are multiple witness events in Roseville, Michigan, 540 00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:02,599 which is a sub of Detroit, as well as Yuma, Arizona. They 541 00:48:02,639 --> 00:48:08,519 were looking at odd things, tumbling, rocket shape, things in the slow 542 00:48:08,679 --> 00:48:15,000 in the sky. On May, first George Air Force Base in California, 543 00:48:15,079 --> 00:48:20,840 and then also in the first week of May Keisler Air Force Base in Mississippi, 544 00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:29,239 multiple airman and officers were seeing things very close to the ground. It 545 00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:37,000 continued in late May in San Antonio there was a ship at port in a 546 00:48:37,119 --> 00:48:45,199 West African country named Gabone where the ship's master and his first mate saw something 547 00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:52,079 rise up from the ground, do multiple ninety degree turns, and finally move 548 00:48:52,159 --> 00:48:59,360 off into the sunset. A really cool case occurred in July and East German 549 00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:05,400 father and his adult daughter, I mean, his adolescent daughter, were riding 550 00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:09,519 his motorcycle when a tire blue. As he's starting to attend to that, 551 00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:15,880 the daughter called his attention to something that was stirring in the woods. They 552 00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:21,599 were interested enough that they walked into the woods to see what that was about. 553 00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,199 And as they got well into it and saw that there was a clearing 554 00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:31,199 within the woods, there was a very unusual I guess you'd call it a 555 00:49:31,199 --> 00:49:39,480 saucer. It was round a boundaried in a circle, but above a small 556 00:49:39,559 --> 00:49:50,360 compartment. There was a ten foot black cone. Outside it were two small 557 00:49:51,199 --> 00:49:58,360 entities wearing metallic kind of suits and had lamps on their waist that would flash 558 00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:02,039 from time to time. They stood there just thirty feet away from the scene, 559 00:50:02,079 --> 00:50:07,280 taking it in. When the daughter said something to her father, and 560 00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:14,079 that was overheard. The two entities raced back inside, and momentarily it rose 561 00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:20,159 up with a fiery, noisy exit, and they found a depression in the 562 00:50:20,199 --> 00:50:22,920 ground where it had rested. So I thought that was kind of a cool 563 00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:28,360 thing. They were in East Germany then, and later on made their escape 564 00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:35,360 to West Germany. Algeria throughout the month of July had multiple reports there was 565 00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:40,239 one in the Netherlands that involved a mother and four adolescents, and all this 566 00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:46,559 led up to July nineteen and twenty. That night and then a week later, 567 00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:53,440 July twenty sixth at Andrew's Air Force Base, which is where Air Force 568 00:50:53,519 --> 00:51:00,800 one is parked in Maryland, as well as Washington National Air Or, the 569 00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:06,360 radars at both were picking up unknowns that shouldn't have been there, and as 570 00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:13,599 airliners were coming into land at National, they're on board radars were also picking 571 00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:20,679 up these unknowns. Unfortunately, they didn't have any way to chase them down 572 00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:25,840 because what Andrews was going through. I'm sorry. It was another air base 573 00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:32,719 nearby that was going through construction as all of its runways were being repaved, 574 00:51:34,119 --> 00:51:38,880 and the squadron of fighter pilots and jets had been sent to Delaware well. 575 00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:45,400 As this kept going for a while, Andrews and Washington made a call to 576 00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:51,559 the Delaware base and said, get over here, find what's going on here. 577 00:51:52,519 --> 00:51:57,960 Then they really dropped the ball. The jets don't arrive until three in 578 00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:04,960 the morning, the unknowns still there meandering around in the sky. But as 579 00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:10,960 the jets got within radar range of Washington, DC, the unknowns boogie right 580 00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:15,360 and away and gone right, We're gonna have to pass. Yeah, I'm 581 00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:17,920 sorry, we're late for breaks. We have to we have to take our 582 00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:22,840 break here and we'll jump back. We'll jump back on this topic as soon 583 00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:28,599 as we're back, So everyone just hanging there over at YouTube will be right 584 00:52:28,599 --> 00:52:32,920 back right after these messages. All right, everyone, that's it for the 585 00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:37,920 free show. Thanks so much for listening. Anyone can listen to the full 586 00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:42,119 shows. You can actually go over to YouTube to listen to them there, 587 00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:46,119 or you can listen to them live of course. That's every Tuesday evening at 588 00:52:46,159 --> 00:52:52,440 six to eight pm Eastern Standard time out on our website actually or YouTube, 589 00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:57,280 or at KGr A Radio for those of you who want to listen to the 590 00:52:57,320 --> 00:53:00,840 full shows on your podcast. If you support our show for two dollars or 591 00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:07,079 more a month, we're actually running a special now for a while where anyone 592 00:53:07,199 --> 00:53:14,639 can get these shows for free if they support us for fifteen dollars per year 593 00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:17,199 once a year payment. That information, of course, is on our support 594 00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:22,360 the Show page over at podcast ufo dot com. Next week we have William 595 00:53:22,559 --> 00:53:30,079 Center from North Carolina on a longtime UFO researcher I'm excited to have him on 596 00:53:30,119 --> 00:53:35,239 the show. Thanks again for listening, and remember to keep your eyes to 597 00:53:35,360 --> 00:54:02,400 the sky.