Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis your host, and
we have a great one for you this evening. Our guest is Dan Wright
and he's going to be talking about his book that came out on September one,
The CIA UFO Papers, Fifty Years of Government Secrets and cover Ups.
Dan is a long time move on investigative, going all the way back to
nineteen seventy eight. He'll be joining us. Before that, we have Jordan
Bonaparte from Canada. Jordan is taking Alejandro's placed this week. Alejandro Rojas is
actually moving. Hopefully he'll be back next week when he's settled in. I
want to thank everyone that supports the show. Anyone can do that, and
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so check that out. Anyway, I am about ready to get going.
Jordan Bonaparte joins us from Canada. He does a great podcast called The
Nighttime Podcast. Jordan, why don't you tell us about what someone can expect
to listen to the Nighttime Podcast. Yeah, so, I actually don't live
too far from Shang Harbor, but I host a show called The Nighttime Podcast
where unlike Martin Show, where it's more interview like you know you and a
guest discussing something mine, it's it's more like a documentary style telling of Canadian
based crime, missing persons cases, or just plain odd or unusual stories.
But one thing I have a personal passion about is the UFO phenomenon in that
topic. So as much as often as much as I can, I'll take
Canadian UFO events. I get in touch with witnesses, investigators, uphologists,
or even just people like Martin and chatted out so throughout the I guess I've
done probably eighty or ninety episodes of the Nighttime podcast at this point, and
I've covered quite a few UFO events. So people who are into kind of
hearing the background or hearing the story of lesser known UFO events, if you
tune into my show or go through my back catalog, you'll probably find some
interesting stuff. Yeah. The one you have up there recently is called the
Belle Island Boom, and I listened to that two episodes of that. That's
really a bizarre situation where this what they don't under it sounds like it could
be maybe a natural phenomenon, but then it just did such bizarre things to
this one home, you know, I mean the burn, the copper wires
right out of the wires, and fuses shot across and made dents in the
wall, and you know, I mean just really weird, weird stuff.
That's a great story, that one. Yeah, and there's there's really no
question about it. Like all of the things that happened during the Bell Island
Boom are well documented, photographed. A lot of the witnesses have spoke several
times about what had happened, including the fire marshal who was sent to investigate
him, but kind of the official explanation for the Bell Island boom for people
who are unfamiliar with with that one, it was basically an aerial explosion like
the sound, basically a loud explosion in the sky, but for some reason
it seemed to create an incredibly bizarre amount of electrical disturbances in this one area
of a small island in Newfoundland. In kind of the electrical disturbances where things
like television sets exploding so much electricity passing through the power lines like go down
the street, that there was a trail of ash below the power lines from
like the rubber insulation or the rub rubber casing. It all melted. Several
homes had to be completely rewired. A barn full of chickens it was,
was collapsed and all of the chickens inside were basically just fried. The official
Yeah, it's a really strange stuff. The official explanation is that it was
a very rare type of superpowerful lightning called ball lightning, and the official explanation
says that the ball lightning was amplified even further due to the fact that Belle
Island has a lot of iron deposits, so I don't know if it's if
that's conductive for electricity or whatnot. But that's the official story. But there
has been years and years of rumors that it could be anything from a UFO
event to government testing of electromagnetic energy type weapons Russians. Yeah, yeah,
there's been. After the original investigation, after the Bell Island boom occurred,
we're the government had announced it was this ball lightning, there's been. There
were several groups of Canadian, American and Russian military people interviewing and taking photographs
and poking around the island. The people the Americans were from Los Alamos,
which I guess has a history for testing of experimental weapons. And again there's
there's no question about whether or not they were there. They were photographed and
filmed there, and you know that they were there doing that. So there's
been several documentaries about it, and if you go on YouTube and just search
Belle Island Boom, you'll find some really fascinating stuff. And my episodes are
up there. There's there's now three of them. The third one I released
features an interview with a woman named Cynthia Bickford, who was about twenty five
years old at the time and she lived in the home where was thought to
be ground zero. She still lives there and still owns the house, and
so she came kind of out of the shadows and told her story for the
first time about what she remembers on that bizarre day. Wow. Hey,
you know, I can't believe how much time we've eaten up already. So
do you have what do we have any current events you want to talk about
in the UFO world? Well, the big talk right now, there's really
two things. One is the storm Area fifty one. Oh yeah, debakable,
and I'm sure you've said so much about that on your show at this
point. But at the same time that that's being covered, we also have
kind of the opposite side of the spectrum is the Navy admitting that a lot
of the UFO footage that has come out and been released lately is legit.
And I find I kind of find it interesting to see those stories juggled on
the press by the press, one being really making uphology and this whole thing
look bad, which is the whole Storm Area fifty one thing, and then
the other adding, you know, credibility to us. So I kind of
find it interesting to see how that's all handled right right now. John Greenwald
actually is the one that kind of spawned that whole conversation with the Navy,
which I think is pretty amazing. I don't know how much credit he has
been given, but basically it was his communication with the Navy. They admitted
it with him and a document. So good for him for he's really shaking
some branches and some interesting stuff that's falling up. He's shaking some interesting branches.
Yes, there's a lot of people that have different opinions about some of
the documents, but you know, I have a feeling, you know,
he's just looking for the truth. That's that's what I you know, that's
my thoughts about what John's doing. But anyway about STOREM Area fifty one,
what type of have you you looked into it? You know, what type
of turnout? I know it was in several different places. Did you find
out anything about that? Yeah? I was watching it all as it unfolded,
basically since since the very beginning of the whole movement or whatever you want
to call it. But there was a lot of infighting between the original person
who started the Facebook group or Facebook event that had the million people agreeing to
storm area fifty one and Find the Aliens. The guy who started that had
partnered with a local business basically to organize an event to basically like a UFO
type festival, sort of like a woodstock thing, but it seemed like they
had a pretty big falling out. Eventually. There was kind of three separate
events planned. One was in Las Vegas, but in the end at Area
fifty one, a couple hundred people showed up. A lot of the photos
I saw were almost embarrassing, a big parking lot with you know, basically
empty save for a few cars, and you know, it seemed like everybody
that was there was more like kind of like a YouTuber type. There was,
you know, any pictures you see. It's like everybody has a camera
filming themselves. So I think a lot of the people that showed up,
you know, it were more so people showing up to kind of document what
was happening. And you know, the million or so people on Facebook who
were gonna go, you know, just to do something, they didn't seem
to show up. But I think it's it's definitely for the better. While
I do two and I think there was enough people you know saying putting the
warnings out there of what could happen, and you know, plea actually there's
was many pleads don't go, you know, don't come here. Rachel said,
you know, they really didn't want anyone. They are a town of
fifty people. You know, they have no infrastructure for to handle anything like
that. So I guess that's good. But I do know there were some
you know, music fests. There was even in Las Vegas, not just
not just the area around Area fifty one. There was a couple of events
going on. I just haven't heard what the turnout. I think one of
the turnouts was about three thousand people, but I don't know of the other.
I think there were two more other events that you know, was celebrating.
All of them were disappointing turnouts. And it's it's kind of a shame
because you know, there's so many UFO conventions and festivals and stuff across Canada
and the United States. It would be really cool if there was one event
that kind of everybody agreed to and you know, and it was really something
special. I don't think that event should be held in the middle of the
desert near a you know, a US military base, but it's a you
know, it had it would have needed to take a different direction from the
very beginning, and this was you know, it's just I think it was
kind of an embarrassment. And it's one of those things that when you talk
to people that are kind of like the layman too the topic and you talk
about being interested in UFOs and you know, all these related topics, hopefully
they don't think about, you know, I hope you're one of those nuts
that we're going to storm area fifty one. Yeah, you know, it's
funny. I've I've had a couple of relatives because they know I'm into the
UFO topic, like, well, what do you think about that? And
you know, and it's like, I think it's actually I think it's foolish.
For if someone actually thought they were going to storm area fifty you know,
area fifty one and actually break in, it just was not It was
not a good call. And you know, after Facebook took down the site
and then they put it back up because you know, the the person who
initiated it was saying, you know, really let's make it something else.
M But I mean, I was glad that actually Facebook took it down because
there there was someone asking everyone to do something illegal basically, you know,
yeah, what I thought was interesting, and this story hasn't really been told
very much, is you know, there's so much discussion around Bob Lazar and
whether or not he's legit or whatnot, But it turns out he really had
a lot to do with this whole Storm Area fifty one thing, which is
a you know, in the Storm Area fifty one is a massive story.
But it seemed like that documentary Jeremy Corbell did with Bob Lazar that came out
and that generated some buzz. But then when Jeremy Corbel and Bob Lazzar went
on the Joe Rogan podcast, I know, I don't know if that was
what led to all of this action, but I was. I listened to
that podcast just recently to hear Bob Lazar talk to Joe Rogan, and near
the end of the interview, Bob Lazar said, you know, like I
don't I don't know if it's a good idea for me to even have done
this, like everything every time I opened my mouth that it creates problems.
And Joe Rogan said in response, like no, this is different, this
is going to be good. You know, people are going to hear your
side of the story, and you know, and I was just listening to
that a couple days ago, and I'm thinking, like, Bob Lazar is
probably looking at this storm very fifty one nonsense, and yeah, you know
I should have shut up. Yeah, well, I know. I hope
our guests are being patient. We are. At least we're skipping the first
commercial break, so he'll have we'll have some extra minutes there. But anyway,
I personally thought that, you know, I always get email after I
say something like this, but I'm gonna say it anyway. I personally thought
that, you know, Joe Rogan was buying Bob Lazar one percent. And
I just feel like Bob Lazar is being pushed at us to believe his story,
which I still don't And I just don't buy his story. But that's
my own personal opinion. I know there's a lot of things that have run
true, that he has been evolved in that he talked about, but overall,
I just feel like we're being forced to believe his story and I don't
buy it. I just don't buy it. It's got to me. It's
got a bit of the almost like the Nostrodamis of upology, where he said
so much stuff that every so often you know things, it just works out
and that it comes true. So if you cherry pick what he got right,
he's doing pretty good. Yeah, excellent. That's a very good point,
Jordan. As always, it's always fun to talk to you, whether
we're talking on the phone or on a podcast. It's always a lot of
fun. Thank you so much. And why don't you throw out there where
people can listen to your show. If you search the Nighttime Podcast or go
to Nighttime podcast dot com, anywhere you can get podcast UFO, you can
get my show. With the exception of KGr A Radio. Right, that's
not going to happen because you are under contract. But anyway, thanks so
much. Thanks for having me, Martin. All right, you take care
you do all right. Our guest this evening is Dan Wright. And Dan
joined the mutual UFO network move On back in nineteen seventy eight. Thereafter,
he served variously on its staff and board of directors. As the organization's deputy
director, he oversaw thousands of UFO investigations across North America. We're gonna talk
a little bit about that, he wrote, three chapters for the muf ON
Field Investigators Manual. So that's interesting. And for five years he conducted a
muf ON project to transcribe and analyze regressive hypnosis sessions related to possible alien abductions.
I find that very interesting as well. Welcome to the show, Dan.
Thanks, it's really good to be with you, and thanks for being
patient. As I mentioned before, we are going to sail all the way
through to our our one for a break, so we have no break,
so it's a little bit extra of a show. And again I think if
your patient's waiting in the background for us. So, Dan, I was
curious about the Area fifty one discussion. Oh okay, folks should know that
years ago all of the saucers and beings and everything were moved to Utah to
a place that's now called Area fifty two. I could have I thought,
that's what happened. I love that. Yeah, that's that's really good.
Yeah, yeah, all right. I like the way this is starting already,
Dan, So what is here? What got you involved in the UFO
topic? What sparked your interest to begin with? Oh okay, I'll take
a deep breath. This goes back to my father and nineteen sixty seven,
he was a truck driver. He drove an eighteen wheeler but hauling bread two
terminals outlets where and from there they were taken to grocery stores. But he
was a full fledged eighteen wheel truck driver, and he very routinely, like
three times a week, went up the Lake Michigan coast. We're from Michigan.
We're the only ones in America who can show you where we live by
holding up a right hand, the mitten pomp facing your face, so he'd
be going up the outside of my hand up the little finger, and it
was a US Highway one thirty one. He had done this literally hundreds of
times, if not a thousand. He knew every yard light, every tractor
path off the road. On this particular night, he had dumped his load
and was coming back down US one thirty one going south when he noticed he
had earlier noticed that there was a full moon, kind of a harvest moon,
out to the west over Lake Michigan. But now to the east he
saw something that was kind of mimicking that moon. It was spherical and it
was amber to orange coloration. He was trying to judge how far away it
was so he could tell how big it was. He took it to be
like house sized, and by that he would mean his own bungalow, which
was about twenty five thirty feet in diameter, and it was pulsating. Over
about seven seconds, it would go from very bright to dimming, dimming,
dimming, until there was just a ring of light around the outside with a
dark center, and then in another seven seconds it would go back to brightness.
And he thought that was pretty strange. He's the only one on the
road, and he was hoping that he'd come across another motorist that he could
flash his lights too, but he didn't. And finally, after about fifteen
miles, this thing has stayed right even with his truck, and he thinks
about a quarter mile away, going over farm fields and just oh maybe twenty
feet off the ground. He finally decided to pull his truck over onto the
shoulder and just sat in his cab with the window down, staring at this
thing which was doing nothing but this brightening and dimming. When there was a
huge pounding on the ride or door of his truck that sent his head to
the ceiling. It was a motorist who had been trying to catch up with
this ball of light, and he had pulled up behind my dad's truck,
so they got out by the side of it and just stared for a couple
of minutes. My dad finally said, I've got a gun in the truck.
I carry money sometimes, so i'm authorized, and I don't think I
could pull my truck into it. But I know, just up here fifty
yards there's a tractor path into that field. We could get into your car
and get really close to this thing. And the other guy said, you
know, I think I'm about as close as I want to beat right now.
He just barely had those words out of his mouth when in an instant
it approached from a quarter mile away to within a hundred yards silently, the
old pulsating. Well. That put the other guy over the edge. He
threw gravel with his tires getting out of there. My dad he had been
a World War Two veteran. He was a kind of a tough guy.
But with the other guy gone, he didn't have quite enough courage to walk
into that field by self, so he finally started up the truck again,
went up over a long hill, and he looked in his rear view mirror
as he reached the crest, and it had stayed over that field. So
a dock worker back at the bakery said, you look like you've seen a
ghost. That morning, instead of his standard routine of eating breakfast and then
going to bed, he ate breakfast and then went to a bookstore and he
bought every UFO book on their shelves. Over the years, he started passing
them on to me. I was a junior in college when this occurred.
I was home a couple of weeks later and I heard the story and I
thought, well, that's strange, but I didn't have any compelling notion about
it. But over the years he was passing these books on to me and
I was reading them, and finally, by seventy eight, I said,
you know, I think I want to be part of the solution to this
thing. So I joined move On because, unlike the Center for UFO Studies,
move On did actual investigations. And I started as a local investigator and
then became a state director for several years, and then I was appointed to
the move On board of directors and it carried on from there. Wow.
That same year of seventy eight, I had two close encounters of my own,
just nineteen days apart, and I'll try to handle these quickly. The
first one occurred as I was driving with a I was riding with a driver
on I ninety four, which connects Detroit and Chicago, and we were in
the corn fields near not too far from Battle Creek, just moving along,
headed toward Kalamazoo, where we were going to pick up on some work the
next day when I saw something approaching us. It was beyond the eastbound lanes
and kind of a line of trees at so often interstates have, but I
could tell with glimpses of it that this wasn't a regular aircraft. It had
two red lights, as if you would have a red light on each wingtip,
while that would violate FAA rules. So I told her to stop the
car, and she pulled off. And I'll always think until the day I
died, that this thing reacted to our stopping the car, because it made
a very tight left turn and came right down over us, just maybe two
hundred feet above us. It was what some people call a boomerang, others
say a triangle, and I understand why because the shape of it, it
kind of splits the difference. The backside of it is kind of indented,
but it was oh as big, were bigger than a B fifty two in
this triangle shape. It was all black, kind of a charcoal black.
There was no door, no window, no insignia. It was just a
mass. And as it passed over us, a couple of hundred feet up,
it was only doing maybe twenty miles an hour. It went over a
farm field that had just been harvested from corn, and it did such an
incredible turnaround there, a circular motion but using only a matter of several feet,
almost like a ballerinas pirouette. And by now it's doing jogging speed,
and it moved over a little clump of trees in the middle of that field
and just stopped and hovered silent. Well. As it was in the midst
of performing that, the woman shouted at me, run Dan, run after
it. And at the time I was a roadrunner, so I thought,
yeah, great idea. And I'm looking kind of up at it as I
start running forward, forgetting that every interstate has a wire fence, and I
bounded off that like a tramp lane, landed on my butt, and my
first thought was great, I just really impressed those people. Whoever's in to
beat us up, Scottie, there's no intelligent life on you. But at
the same time as that embarrassment, I was getting a queasy feeling that was
certainly it wasn't external. It was just me feeling like, I don't know
if I should try to climb this fence and walk over to it. It's
I'm not supposed to do that. I'm supposed to just stand here and watch
this. Finally, I saw tail lights of a car on a dirt road
that was set back a couple of hundred yards from the interstate, and I
took a chance that that was also somebody taking in this event. I raced
down that corn roll and found a forty Ish man and his adolescent son outside
their car and looking at this same boomerang, if you will, so as
I was telling them the early part of this how the woman and I came
to encounter it, it very slowly started moving jogging speed, and then fifteen
or twenty and so I picked up speed, staying very close to the ground
until it was out of sight. That was the end of event. One
Number two happened two weeks and five days later. It's a Friday night,
and I was hooked up at that point early on. I'm very green as
an investigator, only been with move On for a matter of months, but
I was hooked up with the local police departments and state police airports. They
don't want these calls, and move On does, so it's a nice arrangement.
I got three calls through the Lansing Police in about ten minutes on this
Friday evening. They were all talking about an individual red light like volleyball or
basketball side that was floating and hovering around a major river that goes through Lansing
the capitol. I lived in a town about ten miles west of Lancing,
so I went out into my backyard as dusk was falling, thinking, wow,
maybe I'll get lucky, or I'll figure out that this is something normal,
that's you know, where most of our investigations lead, something that I
can explain to them. So as I was watching, and stars or start
to pop out as the darkness is falling, What I thought were two stars
suddenly started moving. One looked like it was going down, but actually in
retrospect, it was moving away, and so the appearance was that it was
lowering in the sky. The other one looked like it was rising, and
that's because it was coming closer to where I lived and rising up in my
From my perspective, as it got closer, I could tell this is not
one light. This is four lights. And they're in a square about ten
feet to a side. At opposite corners were two red lights and two green
lights, and they were blinking at just about this pace blink. They went
past my town and continued west. Well, again, I didn't know a
whole lot about the UFO subject, but I knew that every airplane in the
world could have only one green light that had two. So I shouted into
my then wife, who is so taken by this subject that she went back
in to do the dishes, and she was really envious of my interest in
this. And people out there are nodding, yeah, those who have been
involved in UFO investigations. It can strain a relationship. So I shouted in,
I've got a drive, and I jumped into my Mustang and tore out
onto the road going farther west. By now, these lights are most of
a half mile ahead of me, and I'm straining with my eyes. I
did have good vision, trying to figure out what these lights were at catched
to, and I finally realized they're not a tag to anything. They're just
four volleyball sized lights at about ten feet apart that are floating along down over
this road. As we got close to another village some seven miles west of
my house, suddenly, as we were approaching that, the lights shot across
the road at an angle. This little village is set back from the road
about fifty yards or so, and as it went over that little one block
business district, as it were of the village, the whole sky from the
ground to many thousands of feet up lit up for an instant that gave me
the impression, well, they just took a flash photo of this village,
which is just a nothing place. But the lights kept going on a northwest
direction, and I knew the road went straight west, so Iden's going to
have to get off it if I was still going to chase these things.
So I found a gravel road to the north, and then one to the
west, and another north and so on. But in the process, I'm
falling farther and farther behind these lights. As they say, how the crow
flies that the lights were going straight, and I wasn't. The roads were
very rolling. I'm doing way too fast, hoping I don't encounter another car
coming the other way. When after several minutes of this, and I'm questioning,
Dan, you're putting your life at risk now is this worth it?
And I'm thinking that over when I came into a clearing and there they were
hovering over a farm field and I pulled off onto a driveway. There was
a farmhouse way back that was dark. I pulled my car into an angle
to face these lights. And I knew nothing about Morse code, but I
started flashing my headlights over and over in the same pattern, kind of mimicking
Morse code, thinking I want to get something other than this monotonous red green
blinking. But that did no good. So after some three minutes or five
minutes of that, I thought, well, it's time to do what you
always said you do on the interstate. You didn't walk over to him,
walk over to this. So I opened the door of my Mustang and I
stood up between the body and the car door, and like bam, my
mind went blank. I don't know how long I stood there in that same
spot between the body and the door of my car. Could have been a
minute, could have been an hour. When I came to consciousness again,
you know, I'm confused, thinking what the hell was that? Where did
the light go? They're not in front of me anymore, and I whirled
around instinctively, and now they're behind me in an adjacent field, still just
over the ground, ten twelve feet up, still blinking red and green.
The thought of walking over to them does not occur to me again. Instead,
I got another queasy feeling. I'm intruding on something. Whoever's behind these
lights, they've got an agenda, and I'm holding them up. I've got
to drive home, started my car and drove away. And I've probably been
asked by jaw A Gate people a hundred times since then. You confronted a
UFO and you drove away. Yes I did, Yes I did. But
that while it was visually, it was less stunning than that aginal boomerang or
triangle, the same one that was responsible for the Hudson Valley sightings in the
eighty two eighty three. I just happened to see it a little earlier in
seventy eight. But yeah, that was the second one real played on me.
It bothered me to the point I had to stay in this avocation for
the rest of my life. Wow. Interesting, you know you talk about
this square. I had a friend that had an encounter of like a square
like box shaped object. Now that started out as looking like a craft and
then he basically said it eventually looked like exploded into I think he said five
lights that made a formation and we're reacting to each other, which is such
a bizarre story. But you don't hair of too many like square type objects.
I think Jan Harrison had had something of the orange thing square or something
like that. But you don't hear of a lot of square type objects.
Right right in Lancing when I was starting out investigating, there was a family
that had an encounter with a shoe box, as they put it, shaped
object. It was perhaps twenty feet by thirty feet. It was big.
The one of their children was outside feeding one of their dogs and noticed a
reflection in the dog's eyes and looked up and this thing is going right overhead.
The bottom of it was hundreds They thought of lights, but it was
shoebox shaped. And this was on the west side of Lancing. It continued
very slowly to a GM plant that was there and it was last seen hovering
over one of the buildings of the GM factory. Interesting, we haven't even
ordinary people with extraordinary accounts, that's right, you know, we haven't even
really touched on anything about what your books about yet. I definitely want to
get into that. But before I do, just a question. You started
move On back in nineteen seventy eight. What was move On like then compared
to now? Was it basically the same? You know, if you took
away all the it wasn't a lot different. It had been founded in sixty
nine by Walt Andreas, who was an engineer I believe, from Motorola,
first in near Missouri, I think in Illinois, but near Missouri, and
then his job got switched to Texas and so he took the organization with him
there. It had grown rather quickly up to about a thousand or so,
and then it just stayed about that same number for number of years. Now.
I think there's about thirty five hundred in the organization, but it's never
been huge. From the very beginning, they had an annual conference that they
call a symposium. It's more formal than a lot of conferences where there are
ten or a dozen speakers, they would do this every year, but other
than that, it was left to the individual state organizations. I had an
organization that was I got up to about fifty members, I guess, and
it advanced from there after I left it, and we had quarterly meetings.
You know, you don't want to overwhelm people with the subject, but they
want to get together frequently. Move On always had a monthly periodical called the
UFO Journal, and that is still going now after we just celebrated our fiftieth
anniversaries and organization this summer. Yeah, that's all. It's the short answer
is it's not a lot different than it ever was. Uh uh huh.
And let's let's talk about your book, because I would like to know the
genesis of what madd you, what made you, you know, dive into
this first of all. But let's talk about what the CIA lead. The
title is the title, It starts with the and there's no possessive word,
and it's it's the CIA UFO Papers. I'm sorry, I got that.
And it's on Amazon. It's not what it is some bookstores now, but
you can find it on Amazon. I don't have the IBN on me right
now, but just my name Dan Wright and the UFO, I mean the
CIA UFO papers. I got you saying it wrung, so I just I
just put it up on YouTube. I just put it up in the genesis
of that is. I will always thank Barack Obama that in the final weeks
of his presidency he directed the CIA to go to the National Archives where they
had put UFO CIA related UFO research papers for many years. These were documents
that had once been classified had been released under FOYA, but to view them
you had to go to the National Archives and use one of their four desktop
computers. You couldn't copy anything. It was just cumbersome, and so Obama
directed them to put all the stuff on their own website, the CIA website,
which they did and then some I heard about this. It was January
seventeen of twenty seventeen when this all that transfer occurred. I phoned Jan Harzon,
now the international director or the executive director of moufon and figuring that he
was already putting a group together, I would join the effort to see what
there was to be seen from these files. And Jan said, well,
actually there is no such group, but you're free to create one. So
I thought well, before I start prevailing on other people to put in a
great deal of effort on this, i'd better get the lay of the land.
I opened up now. The CIA had said that they had just released
a million pages on UFOs. Well, it wasn't a million pages of anything.
It was about one hundred and twenty thousand maybe pages of something. But
as I started pouring into my started shaking my head. Everything under the sun
was in these files, virtually none of it. Two percent of it was
actually UFO related. If you wanted to know all about Bulgaria's rail tonnage in
nineteen fifty six, it was there, but UFOs not so much. So
it took me five months of just sorting and reading to get all through all
the chaff and find the wheat. And I ended up with five hundred fifty
documents that at least in part were UFO related. Most of these were reports
sent in from various places in Europe and North Africa on what was happening locally,
what locals had seen in the sky. So I called back to Jan
Harrison has said, you know, it's not such a big deal that I
have to have a group for this. I think I'll since I'm already started.
I'll just go ahead with it and see where it goes. The book
came together quite quickly from there. I was a career researcher and and technical
writer, and so a writing of a book that way wasn't a big deal
for me. And in seven months I got it finished and Jan found us
a publisher of Esoteric Material, and it went from there. And what's your
response since you've had the book out? Have you had a lot of good
feedback? Since it's been out? Nobody has written to me or phoned me
to say, Wow. Well, a couple of friends did. But I've
been doing podcasts and AM radio since then, and I don't know what the
audience is, you know. I guess they say, sure, this is
this is cool, this is strange. But it wasn't anything that they didn't
already suspect of the CIA. Now, did you were there any any big
surprises that you found in those five hundred plus documents? Wow? Yes,
one the major surprise for me. I shouldn't have been surprised. There was
an office within the CIA called the Office of Scientific Intelligence OSI, and they
were made responsible for all things you have but were related over the years that
when it first formed in the early fifties, the CIA formed in the late
forties, and by the early fifties this OSI is up and running roughshot.
We were also in a Cold war the Russians. OSI was mostly, if
you count up the heads, mostly cynical about the CIA about the UFO subject.
But there were always a few and indecision making capacities that wanted to know
more. So they never got out of the business, but they insisted always
on anonymity. They saw what was happening to Project Blue Book in the Air
Force being made into a laughing stock over UFOs, and the CIA was not
about to be the intelligence community's blue book. So while they were interested,
and in fact in fifty three set up a group of scientists mainly to look
at a series of prominent cases, and these were all quote unquote non believers,
they insisted that the name CIA or any mention of the agency be kept
out of any written material. That has never wavered. I'll bet even today
the CIA has somebody or a few somebodies looking at the latest evidence. They
won't let it go, but they will deny in court that they've ever been
interested. Yeah, I don't doubt that at all. Nineteen fifty two a
lot was going on. Why is that considered a pivotal year when it comes
to Yeah, after Roswell and Kenneth Arnold sighting in the Cascades that coined the
term flying saucers. The rest of forty seven had all kinds of reports coming
in from the public about saucers and other kinds of craft, mostly saucers.
But after say, early forty eight, the whole subject just died down.
Forty nine fifty fifty one, there were virtually no reports from the public,
and so the CIA could breathe a sigh of relief, like, man,
we don't have to shut these things down with cynical talk. The public has
just learned that they're not UFOs at all. They're ifos. They're identifiable flying
objects. They are venus and mars. They're conventional aircrafts and meteors and ball
lightning and the whole nine yards of ifos. But they felt that they had
a good handle on the whole thing. And then fifty two occurred. All
over the world. There was suddenly a whole bunch of activity. It started
in March. By now the OSI had put together a report, a form
called information from Foreign documents or radio broadcasts if DRB a classic stumbling over themselves
to name a form, but and these would be filled out by operatives around
the world, mostly in Europe. Again in North Africa operatives otherwise known as
spooks or spies. When they weren't busy with something Russia related, they would
pass along that locals had seen UFOs. In late April, on the same
day there were all of these are multiple witness events in Roseville, Michigan,
which is a sub of Detroit, as well as Yuma, Arizona. They
were looking at odd things, tumbling, rocket shape, things in the slow
in the sky. On May, first George Air Force Base in California,
and then also in the first week of May Keisler Air Force Base in Mississippi,
multiple airman and officers were seeing things very close to the ground. It
continued in late May in San Antonio there was a ship at port in a
West African country named Gabone where the ship's master and his first mate saw something
rise up from the ground, do multiple ninety degree turns, and finally move
off into the sunset. A really cool case occurred in July and East German
father and his adult daughter, I mean, his adolescent daughter, were riding
his motorcycle when a tire blue. As he's starting to attend to that,
the daughter called his attention to something that was stirring in the woods. They
were interested enough that they walked into the woods to see what that was about.
And as they got well into it and saw that there was a clearing
within the woods, there was a very unusual I guess you'd call it a
saucer. It was round a boundaried in a circle, but above a small
compartment. There was a ten foot black cone. Outside it were two small
entities wearing metallic kind of suits and had lamps on their waist that would flash
from time to time. They stood there just thirty feet away from the scene,
taking it in. When the daughter said something to her father, and
that was overheard. The two entities raced back inside, and momentarily it rose
up with a fiery, noisy exit, and they found a depression in the
ground where it had rested. So I thought that was kind of a cool
thing. They were in East Germany then, and later on made their escape
to West Germany. Algeria throughout the month of July had multiple reports there was
one in the Netherlands that involved a mother and four adolescents, and all this
led up to July nineteen and twenty. That night and then a week later,
July twenty sixth at Andrew's Air Force Base, which is where Air Force
one is parked in Maryland, as well as Washington National Air Or, the
radars at both were picking up unknowns that shouldn't have been there, and as
airliners were coming into land at National, they're on board radars were also picking
up these unknowns. Unfortunately, they didn't have any way to chase them down
because what Andrews was going through. I'm sorry. It was another air base
nearby that was going through construction as all of its runways were being repaved,
and the squadron of fighter pilots and jets had been sent to Delaware well.
As this kept going for a while, Andrews and Washington made a call to
the Delaware base and said, get over here, find what's going on here.
Then they really dropped the ball. The jets don't arrive until three in
the morning, the unknowns still there meandering around in the sky. But as
the jets got within radar range of Washington, DC, the unknowns boogie right
and away and gone right, We're gonna have to pass. Yeah, I'm
sorry, we're late for breaks. We have to we have to take our
break here and we'll jump back. We'll jump back on this topic as soon
as we're back, So everyone just hanging there over at YouTube will be right
back right after these messages. All right, everyone, that's it for the
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the Show page over at podcast ufo dot com. Next week we have William
Center from North Carolina on a longtime UFO researcher I'm excited to have him on
the show. Thanks again for listening, and remember to keep your eyes to
the sky.