WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.680 --> 00:00:04.120 This is doctor Wendy Walsh and you're listening to KFI AM six forty, the 2 00:00:04.200 --> 00:00:08.640 Doctor Wendy Walsh Show on demand on the iHeartRadio app. Welcome back to the 3 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:12.800 Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty. This is the time of 4 00:00:12.839 --> 00:00:16.640 the show where I head into my social media, those dms. You're welcome 5 00:00:16.679 --> 00:00:20.559 to send me one. The handle everywhere is at doctor Wendy Walsh, Instagram, 6 00:00:20.559 --> 00:00:24.239 TikTok, YouTube, Facebook, you name it. You could just send 7 00:00:24.280 --> 00:00:27.920 me a private message. You should know that I protect your identity. I 8 00:00:28.199 --> 00:00:34.039 change your name and hopefully I don't give out any ID identifying features. And 9 00:00:34.159 --> 00:00:37.960 just a reminder, I'm not a therapist. I'm a psychology professor, but 10 00:00:38.039 --> 00:00:42.520 I have written three books on relationships and I'm obsessed with the science of love. 11 00:00:42.799 --> 00:00:45.640 I've had a lot of wisdom and life experience and I'm happy to weigh 12 00:00:45.640 --> 00:00:48.200 in on your love life. So let me open up the dms and see 13 00:00:48.200 --> 00:00:53.119 when I got here. H Oh, here's a good one. Dear Doctor 14 00:00:53.159 --> 00:00:58.200 Wendy. I am no contact with my ex. Should I go off the 15 00:00:58.240 --> 00:01:03.319 grid, no social media, change my gym and possibly work. I just 16 00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:07.920 don't want him knowing anything about me anymore. All right, let's stop for 17 00:01:07.959 --> 00:01:11.879 a minute and consider what you're saying. I need to know why. Why 18 00:01:11.920 --> 00:01:17.000 do you not want him to know anything about you anymore? Are you in 19 00:01:17.120 --> 00:01:22.560 danger? Is he somebody who threatened you or hurt you in some way? 20 00:01:23.159 --> 00:01:27.239 Are you hiding to protect yourself? Is this a survival strategy for your physical 21 00:01:27.280 --> 00:01:32.840 safety? If that is so, then sure, go off the grid. 22 00:01:33.640 --> 00:01:38.439 If it's about being emotionally reminded of somebody, though, hey, you're going 23 00:01:38.519 --> 00:01:42.519 to have to deal with it, Okay. I do believe that you should 24 00:01:42.959 --> 00:01:46.920 unfollow, unfriend and all that, because you don't want to hurt yourself by 25 00:01:46.959 --> 00:01:52.799 being exposed to his posts. Now, changing your gym, I would not 26 00:01:53.040 --> 00:01:55.640 change your gym. I would change your gym time because you'll see a whole 27 00:01:55.680 --> 00:01:57.920 new faces that you want to see. Anyway, don't change your work. 28 00:01:59.239 --> 00:02:00.920 You're doing a lot there for somebody. I don't know what bad happened that 29 00:02:00.920 --> 00:02:05.719 you would even consider that. Unless he works with you and you see him 30 00:02:05.719 --> 00:02:07.960 every day all day long, then I might consider I don't know, but 31 00:02:08.319 --> 00:02:13.599 the fact that you've gone no contact, which I do recommend for most people, 32 00:02:13.639 --> 00:02:19.479 because what happens when you stay in touch immediately after the breakup is you 33 00:02:19.560 --> 00:02:23.759 get reminded a lot of them, and you get triggered a lot by them, 34 00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:28.479 and you see their posts, and it actually makes the breakup longer and 35 00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:31.919 more painful. So research shows going no contact for at least a year is 36 00:02:32.039 --> 00:02:37.319 probably a good idea. On the other hand, at a certain point, 37 00:02:37.919 --> 00:02:39.159 you got to live your life and be out there in the world. Now, 38 00:02:39.199 --> 00:02:42.439 if the person is going to violate your boundaries and be a bit of 39 00:02:42.439 --> 00:02:47.719 a stalker, that's a whole different ballgame. But completely closing down your social 40 00:02:47.759 --> 00:02:52.560 media because there's one human out there who you just don't want to be reminded 41 00:02:52.599 --> 00:02:57.000 of and don't want them to know about your life just because why are you 42 00:02:57.039 --> 00:03:00.599 embarrassed of your wonderful life? I don't know. Ask yourself if you're doing 43 00:03:00.599 --> 00:03:05.840 it for safety. If not, just unfriend him, but don't change so 44 00:03:05.960 --> 00:03:12.360 much in your life. Dear doctor Wendy, As a former model, do 45 00:03:12.520 --> 00:03:19.159 more attractive women get treated better in committed relationships? Are models more likely to 46 00:03:19.240 --> 00:03:23.439 be gifted flowers and bags? Wow? No? No? More likely? 47 00:03:23.520 --> 00:03:28.759 No, less likely? Okay, So here's the thing. Everybody has a 48 00:03:28.840 --> 00:03:35.800 mate status and everybody finds somebody at their level. Everybody dreams, people of 49 00:03:35.840 --> 00:03:39.159 all genders, of having somebody out of their league of a higher status. 50 00:03:39.759 --> 00:03:45.319 So you're assuming here that if a woman is physically attractive, then she is 51 00:03:45.560 --> 00:03:51.080 automatically of a higher status than her male mate. Unfortunately, male status is 52 00:03:51.120 --> 00:03:55.439 often judged differently. Sometimes it's on looks, but sometimes it's on income, 53 00:03:57.039 --> 00:04:01.879 sometimes it's on position in life. Right, And so the question is our 54 00:04:01.919 --> 00:04:08.199 models, do they get more gifts and the handbags if they date a shorter, 55 00:04:08.400 --> 00:04:12.759 uglier guy, Sure, because he's working to keeper. That's called mate 56 00:04:12.840 --> 00:04:15.360 guarding, by the way. We have to guard our mates so they don't 57 00:04:15.400 --> 00:04:23.319 leave. But they're also absolutely beautiful, attractive women who are emotionally abused all 58 00:04:23.399 --> 00:04:30.480 the time, because one technique that men use to control women is to make 59 00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:33.639 them feel bad about themselves. They use emotional abuse, they become bullies. 60 00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:38.319 They tell them you cann't get better out there, or you're not that good 61 00:04:38.360 --> 00:04:42.920 looking, and they mess with their heads. It's a trick, it's a 62 00:04:42.959 --> 00:04:46.600 way to make guard. It's not healthy and it's not right. But to 63 00:04:46.639 --> 00:04:51.600 make an assumption that just because somebody is physically attractive that they will have healthier 64 00:04:51.639 --> 00:04:58.319 relationships or that they will be treated better is a crazy idea, because the 65 00:04:58.360 --> 00:05:03.279 truth is everybody it's a difficult time with relationships. All right, Dear doctor 66 00:05:03.279 --> 00:05:08.040 Wendy, I get the silent treatment. Whenever my girl and I have a 67 00:05:08.040 --> 00:05:14.079 disagreement. How can I inform her that she's emotionally abusing me without making her 68 00:05:14.279 --> 00:05:17.000 feel bad? Ooh, we go to breakdown a few things here. Let's 69 00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:21.199 start out with your reference to silent treatment. Yes, I've said it on 70 00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:27.319 my show. It's in all the research. Doctors Gootman at the University of 71 00:05:27.439 --> 00:05:31.800 Washington, Julie and John have done enough studies to show that dismissing somebody and 72 00:05:31.800 --> 00:05:36.720 giving them the silent treatment is probably the worst conflict resolution style that you can 73 00:05:36.759 --> 00:05:41.079 ever do. In fact, I always say the person who's being ignored, 74 00:05:41.439 --> 00:05:46.000 the person who's being dismissed. Eventually we'll find somebody who will listen, and 75 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:51.000 that's a lover or a lawyer. Okay, So silent treatment not a good 76 00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:56.240 idea, you know that. But then to say, oh, well, 77 00:05:56.279 --> 00:06:01.079 she's how do I tell her she's emotionally abusing me? She's not. You're 78 00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:09.480 emotionally abusing yourself by tolerating the behavior. She's not doing it deliberately to hurt 79 00:06:09.519 --> 00:06:14.000 you. These are the conflict resolution style that she learned growing up. It's 80 00:06:14.079 --> 00:06:18.759 just what she knows. So to stop abusing yourself, you might find a 81 00:06:18.759 --> 00:06:23.279 way to say this is a boundary for me. We're not going to do 82 00:06:23.319 --> 00:06:26.680 it this way anymore. And here will be the consequence if you try this 83 00:06:26.800 --> 00:06:29.920 on me again. I'll get to that in a minute, because your next 84 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:33.079 question is how do I tell her without making her feel bad? Oh? 85 00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:36.959 I'm sorry. So you're responsible for all her feelings. She's like a little 86 00:06:36.959 --> 00:06:39.959 puppet for you, and you can make her happy, you can make her 87 00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:44.199 sad, you can make her mad. We can't make anybody feel anything. 88 00:06:44.759 --> 00:06:47.920 We just present who we are and we talk to them about our feelings and 89 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:53.319 if they have a reaction to our feelings, feelings are different than tone of 90 00:06:53.399 --> 00:06:56.759 voice and behavior. I'm just saying, if they have a reaction to our 91 00:06:57.319 --> 00:07:02.079 expression of truth, of our truth, then maybe you've given them the gift 92 00:07:02.120 --> 00:07:06.720 of pain that they needed to feel and experience. I don't mean raising your 93 00:07:06.759 --> 00:07:11.399 voice. I don't mean hitting them, I don't mean bullying them. I 94 00:07:11.439 --> 00:07:15.120 mean just saying it's okay to say. So here's what I think you should 95 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:17.680 say. The next time you have a conflict and she gives you the silent 96 00:07:17.720 --> 00:07:21.079 treatment. You see people giving you the silent treatment are still listening. That's 97 00:07:21.079 --> 00:07:24.360 the cool thing. You can still talk to them. So you can say, 98 00:07:24.399 --> 00:07:27.160 while she's locked herself in her room or her bathroom, or just busy 99 00:07:27.480 --> 00:07:30.040 doing the dishes and ignoring you or whatever, working out whatever, you're just 100 00:07:30.040 --> 00:07:33.519 going to say, I see what you're doing. What you're doing is what 101 00:07:33.560 --> 00:07:38.560 I've felt before, which is giving me the silent treatment. Because it sounds 102 00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:43.199 like you don't want to have this discussion. However, I want to talk 103 00:07:43.240 --> 00:07:46.519 about this. So I'm going to give you a couple hours to cool down 104 00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:51.079 and then come back to me and talk about it. And if you are 105 00:07:51.199 --> 00:07:55.680 unable to do that, then I'm going to suggest that we see therapy, 106 00:07:55.879 --> 00:08:01.959 a therapist to have better conflict resolution style. And if you can't do that, 107 00:08:01.879 --> 00:08:05.519 then I'm going to have to leave. It's as simple as that. 108 00:08:07.040 --> 00:08:11.480 You just say, I can't keep hurting myself by being around this. It's 109 00:08:11.480 --> 00:08:15.600 about you and your behavior and your reaction. She's not emotionally abusing you, 110 00:08:15.959 --> 00:08:20.279 and you're not making her feel bad. Remember that. Okay, well we 111 00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:22.720 come back. I'm going to head back to the social media and the dms. 112 00:08:22.759 --> 00:08:24.879 If you want to send me one, it's at Doctor Wendy Walsh. 113 00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:28.240 You're listening to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty. We're 114 00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:35.600 live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand 115 00:08:35.799 --> 00:08:39.960 from KFI AM six forty. Welcome back to the Dr Wendy Walsh Show on 116 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:46.320 KFI AM six forty, Live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. Let me head 117 00:08:46.639 --> 00:08:50.519 to the dms. They're always private, they're always juicy. You know, 118 00:08:50.519 --> 00:08:54.320 you can always DM me at d R Wendy Walsh at DODR Wendy Walsh. 119 00:08:54.519 --> 00:08:58.240 Okay, dear doctor Wendy says this listener. I am from Nigeria. Oh 120 00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:01.120 you must find me on line. And I've been dating a guy in LA 121 00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:05.879 when I flew back to see him this time, so that tells me you've 122 00:09:05.159 --> 00:09:09.840 flown back and you've seen him before. It was to spend three months with 123 00:09:09.960 --> 00:09:13.080 him. Since I work remotely. Oh cool, bring your computer, bring 124 00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:16.639 your job, see your guy. However, I caught him with another woman 125 00:09:16.679 --> 00:09:20.799 coming out of his house. I went out hiking alone, and when I 126 00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:24.159 got back to his place, I saw her and I left immediately and got 127 00:09:24.200 --> 00:09:26.879 a hotel. I can't afford a hotel for three months, and I can't 128 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:31.960 afford to change my flight. I'm completely devastated. My trust is broken. 129 00:09:31.279 --> 00:09:35.919 What do I do? Okay, we need to stop right here, because 130 00:09:35.919 --> 00:09:41.120 you need a whole bunch more information. You're visiting somebody in another country who 131 00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:45.840 you don't know. Well. You probably haven't met every one of his friends, 132 00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:50.559 his sisters, his coworkers, his housekeeper. I don't know. You 133 00:09:50.679 --> 00:09:54.080 don't know who this woman is, and why should he be guilty just because 134 00:09:54.080 --> 00:09:58.919 you saw someone leaving his house. Now, I know you could confront him 135 00:09:58.440 --> 00:10:03.600 and he could tell you eyes, but you'll pick up lots of other information 136 00:10:03.799 --> 00:10:09.440 in the conversation. And I also wonder why you reacted so strongly to run 137 00:10:09.559 --> 00:10:16.720 away immediately and not stay and investigate. You see, the way that relationships 138 00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:22.720 grow closer is through the bumps. It's when these little ruptures happen that people 139 00:10:22.759 --> 00:10:28.639 can get together or not. But you fantasizing and imagining that he's having an 140 00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:33.519 affair with another woman while you're sitting at a hotel worried about your money. 141 00:10:33.080 --> 00:10:37.600 Is not going to solve anything. So I would like you to pick up 142 00:10:37.639 --> 00:10:43.159 the phone right now and call him and say, hey, here's why I 143 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:48.480 ran. I'm not angry, I'm scared, and could you tell me more 144 00:10:48.519 --> 00:10:52.279 about what's happening. I was hoping we're monogamous? Am I wrong in this? 145 00:10:52.720 --> 00:10:56.279 Can you help me understand what's happening. That's all you need to do. 146 00:10:56.679 --> 00:11:03.440 You need to be an investigator and get way more information. All right, 147 00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:07.360 Dear doctor, Wendy H. Says this other listener. I have had 148 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:13.480 bad luck in relationships, and I know you are happily engaged. It's pretty 149 00:11:13.519 --> 00:11:16.679 funny. Happily engaged. It sounds like happily married. Like you're supposed to 150 00:11:16.679 --> 00:11:20.639 be happy all the time. To clarify that anyway, this person says, 151 00:11:20.679 --> 00:11:24.480 I know you are happily engaged and about to be married. Does your love 152 00:11:24.600 --> 00:11:30.480 feel easy or more like work? How often do you fight with each other? 153 00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:35.639 I want to know what healthy love is supposed to feel like. First 154 00:11:35.639 --> 00:11:39.720 of all, my heart goes out to you. It's estimated that about forty 155 00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:45.639 percent of Americans have what's known as a secure attachment style where they can give 156 00:11:45.639 --> 00:11:50.080 and receive love comfortably, and love does feel easy to them. When they 157 00:11:50.120 --> 00:11:54.759 meet a partner that doesn't feel comfortable, they move away quickly until they find 158 00:11:54.799 --> 00:11:58.720 someone that feels like it clicks easier. But for the rest of us, 159 00:11:58.840 --> 00:12:03.840 a good sixty percent of the population, we're either anxious, we're avoidant, 160 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:09.240 we're disorganized, we're drama queens. We create problems that make things break up. 161 00:12:09.080 --> 00:12:16.159 We fear abandonment. So love does feel like work. But I want 162 00:12:16.200 --> 00:12:22.399 you to know that I spent eighteen years on and off different times in therapy 163 00:12:24.159 --> 00:12:28.720 so that I could learn the skills of what healthy communication and healthy love is. 164 00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:33.399 And I highly suggest if you're still questioning what feels right, then you 165 00:12:33.519 --> 00:12:39.200 haven't learned all the skills. And part of the skill is choosing a better 166 00:12:39.200 --> 00:12:43.639 partner who is going to be more compatible with you and not getting addicted to 167 00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:48.159 relationships that are painful. So your first question, does love feel easy or 168 00:12:48.200 --> 00:12:54.080 more like work? I will tell you that until this relationship, every relationship 169 00:12:54.120 --> 00:12:58.159 I had in my life felt like work. I was always second guessing them, 170 00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:03.600 I was always psyched analyzing them. They were roller coasters of excitement, 171 00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:07.759 and then followed by the lows and the fear of abandonment and anger from me. 172 00:13:07.399 --> 00:13:13.720 I definitely had kind of an anxious, ambivalent attachment style, but because 173 00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:18.200 I changed, and I think part of the change in me was having a 174 00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:22.240 secure attachment with my kids and holding them so close for all those years and 175 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:26.120 being in that no, I mean, kids don't abandon you. Believe me, 176 00:13:26.399 --> 00:13:28.039 I'm trying to get the last one out. They don't abandon you. 177 00:13:30.159 --> 00:13:33.559 So I would answer that question by saying, love feels easy to me. 178 00:13:33.679 --> 00:13:37.720 Now, that doesn't mean it's happy all the time. How often do we 179 00:13:37.759 --> 00:13:41.080 fight with each other? So we've been together almost four years, and I 180 00:13:41.240 --> 00:13:48.879 would say we have had probably four what I would call fights. And it's 181 00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:52.159 usually because I mean, he's a lay persons. I like to say, 182 00:13:52.519 --> 00:13:58.320 I'm a professional, and so I have this ability to almost act like a 183 00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:01.440 therapist in the relationship kind of and say like, well, what was your 184 00:14:01.480 --> 00:14:05.919 intention when you said that, because I'll tell you my experience is and what 185 00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:09.759 I'm feeling is this. However, there were a few other times where I 186 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:13.120 had a little bit of tequila, or I didn't have enough sleep, or 187 00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:16.360 he said something that kind of really triggered me, and then you know, 188 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:22.159 I'm fighting like a lay person. So yeah, it's not that often, 189 00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:26.039 which is great, and the best news is that we're both very skilled in 190 00:14:26.120 --> 00:14:33.399 making good repair. Dear doctor Wendy, all my friends are engaged, married 191 00:14:33.679 --> 00:14:37.399 or live in girlfriends. I've always enjoyed being single, but now it's starting 192 00:14:37.399 --> 00:14:43.279 to feel like I am in the wrong for not having a partner. It's 193 00:14:43.320 --> 00:14:46.720 always getting harder to connect with these women who are partnered. I don't want 194 00:14:46.720 --> 00:14:48.759 to lose my friends, but I also don't want to get a partner just 195 00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:52.320 to fit in. What do I do? Fascinating? Okay, so there's 196 00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:58.320 this new research out that shows that nearly fifty percent of single Americans say they're 197 00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:03.519 totally happy being single, and they don't They do not need a romantic relationship 198 00:15:05.320 --> 00:15:09.320 hardly. It is because in the past people needed relationships for different reasons. 199 00:15:09.720 --> 00:15:13.159 They needed it for economic survival, they needed it to raise children, et 200 00:15:13.240 --> 00:15:18.519 cetera. So, if you can pay your own bills, and if you're 201 00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:24.679 happy to have relationships, that aren't you deeply connected and committed and maybe they 202 00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:28.720 may involve sex but less romance, or maybe you're just happy to be alone 203 00:15:28.759 --> 00:15:33.799 with friends and family. It's entirely up to you. But what you're running 204 00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:39.559 up against is the fact that our society is still organizing itself around couplehood. 205 00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:41.159 I'm not going to lie to you. For my eighteen years as a single 206 00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:46.519 mother, I was very lonely, especially on Sundays when all my mom friends 207 00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:48.519 would go off with their husbands and family. It was like family day and 208 00:15:48.559 --> 00:15:54.559 I had nobody to call. My couple friends didn't invite me out with other 209 00:15:54.600 --> 00:15:58.960 couples. I was really sort of an outcast socially. So I understand, 210 00:16:00.039 --> 00:16:03.279 and you're feeling right that don't you want to keep your friends, You want 211 00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:07.759 to stay connected with the social group, but you also don't want a romantic 212 00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:10.080 relationship. The other thing is a lot of those friends try to rush to 213 00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:12.159 fix you up constantly. I know that feeling too, So I think you 214 00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:18.240 need to have conversations with your friends about what you're experiencing and what you're looking 215 00:16:18.279 --> 00:16:22.240 for in your friendships with them, so that you can always have them as 216 00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:26.120 social support. I'm sensing from what you said that you're not a loner and 217 00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:30.799 you don't like to be isolated. Most humans do not like that. You 218 00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:34.039 want to keep the social support, but you don't necessarily want a romantic relationship, 219 00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:38.840 and that is okay. Hey, when we come back, have you 220 00:16:38.919 --> 00:16:45.200 noticed how our culture seems to be full of bullies. Sometimes the bullies are 221 00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:49.679 on a pulpit called social media. Sometimes they're in our office, or in 222 00:16:49.720 --> 00:16:57.279 our church, or in our family. Somehow it's okay for adults to bully 223 00:16:57.399 --> 00:17:04.200 other adults, to be hostile, to be angry, to raise their voice. 224 00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:08.160 I don't know what happened to manners, but bullies seem to be everywhere. 225 00:17:08.680 --> 00:17:11.440 When we come back, I have a special guest, an author who's 226 00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:15.359 what both a therapist, an attorney, and a mediator, who wrote a 227 00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:21.319 book called Our New World of Adult Bullies, How to Spot Them and How 228 00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:23.920 to Stop Them. You're listening to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM 229 00:17:23.960 --> 00:17:29.519 six forty. We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You're listening to Doctor 230 00:17:29.640 --> 00:17:33.559 Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI AM six forty. Welcome back to the Doctor 231 00:17:33.559 --> 00:17:38.279 Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty, Live everywhere on the iHeartRadio App. 232 00:17:38.279 --> 00:17:44.200 I have a very special guest for us this week, author Bill Eddie. 233 00:17:44.319 --> 00:17:45.839 I'd like to call him just an author, but he's got a bunch 234 00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:49.319 of other stuff going on in his life. He's an attorney, he's a 235 00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:55.799 therapist, he's a mediator. And get this, imagine having this title Chief 236 00:17:55.920 --> 00:18:00.079 Innovation Officer of the High Conflict Institute. Well, when I read that, 237 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:02.519 Isa, we need to get him on the doctor Wendywell show, Hi Bill 238 00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:07.079 Eddie, how are you? I'm great, Thanks so much for having me 239 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:11.359 on. And you are in San Diego? Are you that's right? Guys? 240 00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:14.680 Yes, I am so. I love very minute. I love to 241 00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:18.680 talk to people that are about that are therapist, your licensed clinical social worker, 242 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:25.319 and also attorneys because you can shed such a light on both how the 243 00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:30.119 law and human behavior interact with each other. But before we get there, 244 00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:36.839 what is the High Conflict Institute. Well, the High Conflict Institute was founded 245 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:41.400 with myself in two thousand and eight and a woman who worked with the Arizona 246 00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:47.640 court system, and we were both heavily involved with family law and we wanted 247 00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:53.599 to train family lawyers, mediators, judges and therapists that worked on cases, 248 00:18:53.799 --> 00:19:00.720 especially the high conflict cases, the high conflict divorce and custody. Just all 249 00:19:00.759 --> 00:19:03.960 the messy stuff and how to try to calm it down. So we started 250 00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:10.680 that now sixteen years ago and we're going strong. We're busy as ever. 251 00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:14.319 Sad to say, there's a lot of high conflict in the world and a 252 00:19:14.359 --> 00:19:18.200 lot of people want help with it, and so you work as mediators in 253 00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:22.640 helping people through their transition to divorce. Well, what we actually do is 254 00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:30.720 training. So I stopped mediation, I stopped practice representing clients and family court. 255 00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:37.319 I stopped doing family counseling to do basically training and consultation. So that's 256 00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:44.000 what my focus is now and my business partner, Megan also we both train 257 00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:49.000 really actually worldwide at this point, and not just law but human resources, 258 00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:56.799 government agencies. The need for tips and innovation in how to deal with high 259 00:19:56.799 --> 00:20:02.680 conflict people just keeps growing. That's what we do. We're an education organization. 260 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:06.240 And you know, family lawyers, bless their hearts, they have such 261 00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:11.000 a hard job. Are very well schooled in the law, as are the 262 00:20:11.079 --> 00:20:15.599 judges that work in the family court system. But as you know, dealing 263 00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:19.519 with high conflict when it comes to our most intimate relationships and separation, you 264 00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:25.880 need a basic knowledge of psychology and attachment theory to understand, like I have 265 00:20:25.960 --> 00:20:29.319 this theory, tell me if I'm right that a lot of people with an 266 00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:33.960 anxious attachment style, who have a lot of trouble with separation and fear abandonment, 267 00:20:34.839 --> 00:20:41.319 use the court system to perpetuate their divorce and drag it on for years 268 00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:47.039 because they can't deal with the separation. Have you seen that? Absolutely right? 269 00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:51.319 Absolutely right? And that's part of it. We also see people who 270 00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:55.319 just have to be superior to somebody, so they go to court to be 271 00:20:55.440 --> 00:20:59.920 superior to somebody or somebody who has to dominate others, and they see the 272 00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:03.240 court system as the way to do that. So part of its fear of 273 00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:07.079 abandonment, but part of it's those two other reasons too. The court system. 274 00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:12.519 I think of the court system as a playground for people with personality problems, 275 00:21:15.079 --> 00:21:19.279 isn't that true? People with personality disorders are the quickest to get a 276 00:21:19.319 --> 00:21:22.839 lawyer and take it to court because they're trying to make sense of these situations 277 00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:30.039 themselves in their own heads, and so having somebody decide for them helps them 278 00:21:30.079 --> 00:21:33.880 make sense of, you know, the chaos inside their own perceptions. Right, 279 00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:37.680 Go ahead, Yeah, Well, I was just going to say. 280 00:21:37.799 --> 00:21:41.960 I think that they don't just want to make sense of it. They already 281 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:45.640 have made sense of it in their own mind, and they want somebody in 282 00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:49.680 a position of authority to dictate to the other party how it's going to be. 283 00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:55.000 So it's really it's really a way to get their way. It's not 284 00:21:55.079 --> 00:21:59.519 so much a question as a demand. It's like, you know, your 285 00:21:59.599 --> 00:22:03.880 honor, you need to tell her that she's an idiot, or you need 286 00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:07.839 to tell him that he's out of control. And so what we see is 287 00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:11.799 the people with personality disorders think they have all the answers, and they use 288 00:22:11.880 --> 00:22:18.200 the court to get the judge to impose their answers onto others. Yeah, 289 00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:22.440 they want someone to validate what they're experiencing. You know, you mentioned something 290 00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:27.680 when people are in conflict. You mentioned that some people want to be superior, 291 00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:32.920 they want to be the winner. And even in long term marriages that 292 00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:36.599 are not going through a divorce, this is something that we see a lot 293 00:22:36.799 --> 00:22:41.119 when it comes to conflict. And I have always said that it is good 294 00:22:41.240 --> 00:22:45.960 conflict if the relationship wins, not one side or the other. Do you 295 00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:51.920 agree, excellent? Oh, absolutely, And that's part of the theme of 296 00:22:51.960 --> 00:22:56.720 my book is when when relationships are the happiest and the most successful. So 297 00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:02.960 if the relationship wins, both going to win, absolutely right, And sometimes 298 00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:07.319 that may mean taking a hit and just saying you're sorry and moving on and 299 00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:11.119 keeping the rapport in the relationship. You mentioned your book, I want to 300 00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:15.799 make sure we talk about it. Bill Eddie has written a book called Our 301 00:23:15.079 --> 00:23:22.440 New World of Adult Bullies, How to Spot Them and How to Stop Them. 302 00:23:22.839 --> 00:23:26.119 Well, this is a pretty timely time for this book to come out 303 00:23:26.200 --> 00:23:30.559 because I think adult bullies are so prevalent in our society right now. Why 304 00:23:30.599 --> 00:23:36.519 did you decide to write this book? Well, I actually decided to write 305 00:23:36.519 --> 00:23:41.759 it starting at the end of twenty twenty when the pandemic was going going strong 306 00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:48.559 and there was so much kind of anger in the world and people bullying each 307 00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:52.319 other at the store if they went to the store. You know, different 308 00:23:52.359 --> 00:23:57.680 points of view about vaccines, about mass about the pandemic. But I also 309 00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:03.440 because I was pretty much grounded. I do a lot of traveling and speaking, 310 00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:07.240 and I was grounded for the first year of the pandemic, so I 311 00:24:07.279 --> 00:24:11.640 have a lot of time to really think and reflect and kind of put together. 312 00:24:11.119 --> 00:24:15.720 I'm seeing the same patterns of behavior and the families I work with in 313 00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:21.319 the workplace, disputes I work with, in the legal cases I work with, 314 00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:26.400 and I really wanted to connect the dots for people so they know you're 315 00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:29.759 going to end up with a bully in your life sooner rather than later, 316 00:24:30.279 --> 00:24:33.480 and you need to be warned. Yes, yes, and that's what I 317 00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:36.759 believe now. It didn't used to be the case, but now that's the 318 00:24:36.839 --> 00:24:40.519 case, and I wanted people to be warned but also know that there's hope 319 00:24:40.519 --> 00:24:42.640 and ways to deal with this. So when we come back, we have 320 00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:45.079 to go to a break right now, Bill, When we come back, 321 00:24:45.240 --> 00:24:51.200 I want to talk specifically about some tools and skills that we all can use 322 00:24:51.640 --> 00:24:55.319 when we are faced with bullies, whether it's in our families, in our 323 00:24:55.359 --> 00:24:59.519 workplace, or even online. So stay with me. You are listening to 324 00:24:59.559 --> 00:25:03.359 the Doctor Indy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty were live everywhere on the 325 00:25:03.400 --> 00:25:07.519 iHeartRadio app. The book is Our New World of Adult Bullies, How to 326 00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:10.920 Spot Them, How to Stop Them. The author Bill Eddie, will be 327 00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:15.839 back after this. You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI AM 328 00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:21.640 six forty Welcome back to the Doctor Indy Wall Show on k I AM six 329 00:25:21.720 --> 00:25:25.440 forty the Home Stretch. I'm always here for you every Sunday from seven to 330 00:25:25.519 --> 00:25:30.519 nine pm. Our guest Bill Getti is the author of our New World of 331 00:25:30.519 --> 00:25:33.720 Adult Bullies, How to Spot Them, How to Stop Them Now. You 332 00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:38.039 had said before the break, Bill that at some point everybody is going to 333 00:25:38.039 --> 00:25:41.680 be faced with a bully. Where do we find these bullies? Mostly? 334 00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:45.359 Where do they crop up in our lives? And that's the surprising thing. 335 00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:48.599 It could be anywhere. Could be on an airplane, could be on a 336 00:25:48.680 --> 00:25:53.279 sidewalk, could be at a school meeting, could be in your workplace, 337 00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:57.039 could be someone that comes to your house, someone that does so work for 338 00:25:57.119 --> 00:26:02.079 you, someone in a volunteer group you're involved with, someone in your church. 339 00:26:02.799 --> 00:26:07.960 What we're finding is they can pop up anywhere because it's personality based rather 340 00:26:07.119 --> 00:26:15.000 than location occupation. It's not that predictable, which is why I want people 341 00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:21.200 to know recognize these patterns of behavior because they may pop up anywhere. At 342 00:26:21.319 --> 00:26:25.319 baseball games, I was just talking with somebody, you know, the kids 343 00:26:25.319 --> 00:26:29.200 and the team, and there's this parent that's screaming bloody murder at the kid 344 00:26:29.240 --> 00:26:33.839 and the coach, so it could be anywhere. So how do you define 345 00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:38.599 a bully and what are the most common patterns of behavior. Well, the 346 00:26:38.680 --> 00:26:45.279 definition I use I've been working with high conflict personalities in the legal field for 347 00:26:45.400 --> 00:26:52.160 much of the last forty years and family therapy and mediation. So we define 348 00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:57.240 high conflict personalities as number one, a preoccupation with blaming others and not taking 349 00:26:57.319 --> 00:27:03.799 responsibility, as a lot of all or nothing thinking it's my way or the 350 00:27:03.880 --> 00:27:11.759 highway free is unmanaged emotions that really can take over for it is extreme behavior, 351 00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:17.400 sometimes doing things that ninety percent of people would never do. So that's 352 00:27:17.480 --> 00:27:22.839 high conflict personalities. Now, bullies are the most high conflict personalities. They 353 00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:27.079 add two things to this. One is a drive to dominate others, to 354 00:27:27.160 --> 00:27:33.039 create when lose relationships where they're in charge, et cetera. But the other 355 00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:40.759 is sometimes to destroy others, to destroy your reputation or we see people physically 356 00:27:40.759 --> 00:27:45.039 a saw I mean talk about domestic violence that some people don't survive that. 357 00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:51.680 So it's a drive to dominate or destroy is the primary ways I define bullies. 358 00:27:51.960 --> 00:27:53.920 You mentioned all the places we might run into them, which is everywhere 359 00:27:53.960 --> 00:27:59.160 in our lives. I've noticed in the last few years with cancel culture, 360 00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:04.359 the number of online trolls, people who are seemingly in their real life world, 361 00:28:06.039 --> 00:28:11.119 rational calm people go a little nutty online sometimes and don't think about the 362 00:28:11.160 --> 00:28:15.960 consequences of those words. Why is this happening? Yeah, so online you 363 00:28:17.079 --> 00:28:22.559 really miss about ninety percent of communication. It's a very small part. There's 364 00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:26.599 all the nonverbals you miss. And what I believe is when you're talking with 365 00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:30.839 somebody, let's say, face to face or a few feet away, you're 366 00:28:30.839 --> 00:28:34.400 not going to be talking like that because they're going to slap you, or 367 00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:38.519 they're going to storm out of the room, or something's going to go wrong. 368 00:28:40.039 --> 00:28:42.839 But the other thing is you feel better when you're around somebody usually, 369 00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:48.200 and so somebody's listening to you, you're going to talk reasonably. You're not 370 00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:55.480 going to be screaming at them. But online all those kind of automatic filters, 371 00:28:55.720 --> 00:29:00.319 body language, tone of voice stuff evaporates. So I've been involved with 372 00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:07.200 organizations where when they talk on you know, do email conversations, people start 373 00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:11.319 getting nasty. We have a phone call, they calm down, We get 374 00:29:11.359 --> 00:29:15.119 on Zoom, everyone's nice, we get together and one's happy to see each 375 00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:21.039 other. So online really screens out a lot of positive interaction, and I 376 00:29:21.079 --> 00:29:25.279 think that's why people feel safe to vent. But there's a second thing. 377 00:29:25.920 --> 00:29:30.440 A second thing. I read some research which I put into my book that 378 00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:36.720 some people looked at online hostility, basically bullying online, and what they found 379 00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:41.599 is it isn't everybody. That there's a small percent of people who actually tend 380 00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:48.720 to be hostile in person, but they're louder online. They feel safer online 381 00:29:48.799 --> 00:29:53.160 to really make a lot of noise, to say extreme things, and so 382 00:29:53.400 --> 00:30:00.440 reasonable people tend to get out of the conversations faster. And so you see 383 00:30:00.519 --> 00:30:07.759 is these online conversations that deteriorate into a lot of negativity. But it's this 384 00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:11.519 smaller group of people that are promoting the negativity, not everybody. So it's 385 00:30:11.559 --> 00:30:18.920 a small group doing a lot of posts exactly. Yeah, And what's interesting 386 00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:26.920 online is they always try to tell you everything's terrible, and that hooks our 387 00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:32.279 emotions and they're telling you and that's one of the biggest things to be suspicious 388 00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:37.680 warning sign when someone tells you there's a crisis heads up, especially online, 389 00:30:37.839 --> 00:30:41.000 they want something from you. So that's one of the first warning signs. 390 00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:47.559 So are there certain kind of personality types who are more vulnerable to being bullied 391 00:30:47.599 --> 00:30:52.720 by others as adults. Well, I've struggled with looking at that, And 392 00:30:52.759 --> 00:30:56.880 what I think is that bullies try out bullying everybody, but people who are 393 00:30:56.920 --> 00:31:03.880 more passive, not very assertive, maybe become more of a target because the 394 00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:08.759 bully can get away with that, And so a more passive personality may be 395 00:31:08.799 --> 00:31:14.279 more at risk, but I think everybody's at risk at the start because they 396 00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:17.880 try it out on everybody, on everybody. And may I have a certain 397 00:31:17.960 --> 00:31:22.039 rule of thumb that I have learned through my many, many decades of being 398 00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:26.559 a human being, and that is when someone one of the things I've learned 399 00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:30.440 is I used to ignore bullying behavior until it escalated, and then it was 400 00:31:30.519 --> 00:31:37.359 too late to exert my boundaries because I had set up a system where my 401 00:31:37.640 --> 00:31:42.759 silence was perceived as permission. So I'm a big believer in, very early 402 00:31:42.880 --> 00:31:49.000 on being clear about boundaries so that most bullies walk away when they're dealing with 403 00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:55.119 someone who's hard to deal with from the beginning exactly. And that's one of 404 00:31:55.119 --> 00:31:59.160 the strong things I tried to say in the book is you need to hm 405 00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:05.160 tervene, sooner and firmer and if necessary gets help that when you let it 406 00:32:05.240 --> 00:32:09.119 go, You're absolutely right, that reinforces them. They go, oh, 407 00:32:09.160 --> 00:32:13.519 I've got somebody here. I can trap them. They're going to have to 408 00:32:13.640 --> 00:32:17.279 just listen to doing it my way, and that's not true. Being assertive 409 00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:22.440 is the solution, not being aggressive, where you become not aggressive. I 410 00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:24.839 always in the metaphor I have is I dig my heels in. I don't 411 00:32:24.839 --> 00:32:30.279 step forward. I dig my heels in so they can't push goods me. 412 00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:35.279 So we know online bullies who are people who are hostile online, we can 413 00:32:35.359 --> 00:32:37.240 just block them, and I hope everybody knows how to use that block button 414 00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:40.200 and how to just get rid of people and report them. But in the 415 00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:43.839 real world, what is your best advice? We only have a little bit 416 00:32:43.880 --> 00:32:46.599 of time left. Your best advice for dealing with an adult bully, Well, 417 00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:51.160 the first is to tell yourself it's not about you, it's about ben. 418 00:32:51.319 --> 00:32:54.200 No one deserves this. The second is, if it's safe to speak 419 00:32:54.279 --> 00:32:57.839 up and say, hey, you can't talk to me this way, you 420 00:32:57.880 --> 00:33:01.279 can't treat me this way, you can't do this around me. Third would 421 00:33:01.319 --> 00:33:07.640 be to talk to somebody else get some help. Fourth would be have bystanders 422 00:33:07.720 --> 00:33:10.319 chime in and say, hey that's enough, buddy, Hey that's enough. 423 00:33:12.200 --> 00:33:19.799 And then setting limits whatever they are organizationally or personally, like ending a conversation. 424 00:33:20.319 --> 00:33:24.759 But the next thing is imposing consequences. If bullies know there's a consequence, 425 00:33:25.240 --> 00:33:29.839 then they're going to steer clearer of you. Right. They test your 426 00:33:29.839 --> 00:33:31.480 words. I always say, like a two year old will say to their 427 00:33:31.480 --> 00:33:35.440 mom, I want to have a cookie before dinner, and you'll say no, 428 00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:37.079 no, no, don't go near that cookie jar. And they don't 429 00:33:37.079 --> 00:33:39.960 pay attention to your words. They need to see they need to reach for 430 00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:44.359 the cookie jar and lift up the lid for you to go no, I 431 00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:45.640 said no, and put your hand on it and put it up above the 432 00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:50.559 fridge. And so the bullies will do the same thing. They will test 433 00:33:50.680 --> 00:33:52.160 you, and they then they want to find it if your words really have 434 00:33:52.240 --> 00:33:58.319 meaning, and they're looking for a behavioral consequence exactly. And that's what people 435 00:33:58.400 --> 00:34:00.440 have to learn to do. We all, I think, have to learn 436 00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:06.680 to be more assertive about setting limits and having consequences, and then I think 437 00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:10.559 some of the bullying behavior we're seeing will get ratcheted back. But I think 438 00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:15.480 this is the message everyone needs to learn. We all need to do this. 439 00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:19.599 Oh Bill, I've been talking about boundaries for decades here. Thank you 440 00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:22.360 so much for being with us. The book is called Our New World of 441 00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:27.320 Adult Bullies, How to Spot Them and How to Stop Them. It goes 442 00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:30.480 on sale next week and you can find it, I'm sure anywhere online and 443 00:34:30.599 --> 00:34:35.119 in bookstores. Bill Eddie, thank you so much for being with us. 444 00:34:35.840 --> 00:34:38.840 Thank you, and that brings the Doctor Wendy Wall Show to a close. 445 00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:43.840 I'm always here every Sunday from seven to nine for you, and you can 446 00:34:43.880 --> 00:34:47.760 follow me on my social media at doctor Wendy Walsh. It's always my honor 447 00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:52.360 to be here for you. You've been listening to the Doctor Wendywall Show on 448 00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:59.199 KFI AM six forty. We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You've been 449 00:34:59.239 --> 00:35:01.679 listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh. You can always hear us live on KFI AM 450 00:35:01.719 --> 00:35:07.159 six forty from seven to nine pm on Sunday and anytime on demand on the 451 00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:07.239 iHeartRadio app.