WEBVTT

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This podcast contains graphic descriptions, explicit
language, and audio clips that may be

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disturbing to some audiences. Listener discretion
is advised. I often find myself wondering

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how exhausting it would be to live
any type of double life. If you're

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like me in any fashion, the
life you have right now is complicated,

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busy, and filled to the brim
with enough events to keep you occupied.

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However, time and time again,
I read a story, see a news

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report, or watch a show about
an individual who appeared to be one person

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on the outside, but with someone
else in the shadows. In a fictional

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sense, you look at a popular
TV show like Dexter, a man who

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by day was helping solve crimes for
Miami Metro, and then he would moonlight

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as a serial killer who only murdered
people according to a certain code. This

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idea seems so outlandish for many reasons, but hey, I'm a fan of

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that show. But just think about
it. How truly exhausting would that be

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to be two different people? It
seems fairly unrealistic, But unfortunately we know

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that people can actually maintain these facades. Look at someone like Dennis Rader or

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Gary Ridgway, Both men appeared to
be one person to their loved ones,

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but to their victims, they were
an entirely different person. Some would say

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that they were their true self with
the latter. There are many more people

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who have lived double lives to a
less extreme extent, but more often than

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not, it seems as though that
these Charlatans are found out. You're listening

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to the Apex and the Abyss,
and this is the story of the Craigslist

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killer. More now in developing news. In the Craigslist murder, the man

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or left is under arrest in the
case. Police say he's the same man

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pictured on your right in those hotel
surveillance photos. That suspect in custody is

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a twenty two year old medical student
at Boston University. Back in the early

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nineties, Craig Newmark wanted to help
people spread the word about local businesses and

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events in the San Francisco area.
It started out as a simple email chain

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to friends, but the vastness of
this word of digital mouth service grew larger

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and larger every day. Due to
its popularity, Newmark created Craigslist in nineteen

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ninety six. By the year two
thousand, Craigslist had expanded outside of California

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to all over the world. Craigslist
can be used for an array of things.

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If you're looking for a job,
housing services, community information, or

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even to just chat on a discussion
for him, you can do that all

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on Craigslist. Craig Newmark created the
site for good use, but like with

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anything, our people out there who
will try to ruin that experience, whether

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it be to scam, steal,
or even kill. Philip Markoff was an

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individual who used Craigslist to take advantage
of people. But before we get into

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his crimes, we need to take
a few steps back and find out who

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Philip Markoff was before all these events
transpired. On February twelfth, nineteen eighty

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six, Philip Haynes Markoff was born. Philip lived a relatively normal life in

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a small town outside of Syracuse,
New York. His parents, Susan and

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Richard, would divorce when Philip and
his brother Jonathan were young, and eventually

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his mother would remarry and have a
daughter with her new husband. Despite this,

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Philip came from a family who loved
him, and from all accounts,

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he was raised and treated right his
entire life. Philip was also extremely intelligent.

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He was a member of the National
Honor Society and numerous extracurricular activities throughout

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his school years. During this time
in his life, those who knew him

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would describe him as a well behaved
young man. He had goals for his

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future, and he took those goals
very seriously. Philip had dreams of becoming

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a doctor and worked hard as a
pre med student at the State University of

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New York in Albany. He would
take him pass the Medical College Admission Test,

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or as it's more commonly known as
the MCAT, and he would then

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enroll at Boston University's School of Medicine. In two thousand and five. While

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he was still a pre med student, Philip would meet and fall in love

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with a woman named Megan mc allister. Megan hailed from New Jersey, and

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the pair would meet when they were
both volunteering at the Albany Medical Center.

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After a few years of dating,
the pair would become engaged and they set

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their wedding date for August fourteenth,
two thousand nine. On the surface,

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Philip had a charmed life. He
was well on his way to becoming a

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doctor. He was engaged to be
married to a beautiful and intelligent woman and

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had his whole life ahead of him
to do good. Unfortunately, Philip went

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down a different path. Right now, Philip Markoff is inside the Boston Police

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Department and he has an unsuspecting resume
a twenty two year old med student scheduled

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to be married this summer, but
police say he is the Craigslist killer.

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As stated previously, this story has
to do with a charlatan, and that

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is exactly what Philip Markoff was.
Not only did the young medical student have

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a gambling issue, but he was
also incredibly in debt. Higher education,

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especially in the United States, is
expensive. By two thousand and nine,

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Philip was already one hundred and thirty
thousand dollars in debt and counting. That's

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a lot of money for someone who
is in their early twenties. Neither Philip

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or Meghan were currently working at the
time. Philip was a full time med

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student and Meghan was having difficulty finding
work. She suffered from back issues and

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was also looking to enroll in medical
school after their wedding. But no matter

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how many Craigslist hostings she replied to
or applications she submitted, Megan couldn't get

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any bites on a job. Despite
their constant complaining about the lack of money

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they had, it appears they would
go out quite a bit. You see,

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Philip would use the money that was
given to him for his student loans

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and living expenses to pay for everything, even unnecessary things like trips to casinos,

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bars, and dinners out at restaurants. Philip would hit up casinos with

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Megan a few times a month to
try and win spending money. According to

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Megan, he would typically break even
and if he lost money, he would

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cash out. This is what she
would witness, at least behind the scenes,

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Philip was acting in ways that were
unusual to how others would describe him.

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Unbeknownst to his fiance, Philip would
use a private email, sex Addict

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five three eight five at yahoo dot
com to solicit sexual encounters with men and

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transgendered women. However, there have
been no confirmation as to whether any of

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these relationships led to physical encounters or
if they were all strictly in the realm

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of cybersex. Either way, he
kept this tidbit about himself private, though

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it would all be linked back to
his ip address. Philip would then use

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Craigslist to begin robbing women. On
April tenth, two thousand and nine,

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Philip would lure Tricia Leffler to the
Weston Hotel in Boston. He had found

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her massuse ad on Craigslist and requested
her services. The pair would meet up

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at the hotel and once they entered
the room, Philip would pull a gun

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on Tricia. He would then tie
her hands with plastic ties to a door

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knob in the room. Also,
to keep her from making noise, he

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would place tape over her mouth.
After Tricia was bound, Philip would then

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take about eight hundred dollars in cash
from her, as well as gift cards

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that had a few hundred dollars on
them, her debit card, and a

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pair of her underwear. After he
robbed her, he left Tricia in the

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room and he left the hotel.
Tricia would later state that she complied with

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every thing Philip said, and she
believes that this is the only reason that

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she is still alive today. So
after he left her room, Tricia would

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get herself loose from the ties Philip
had put her in. After the attack,

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Tricia would contact the police and file
a report. She would even give

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a description of her attacker while authorities
were in the midst of looking for this

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assailant. Philip would be targeting another
victim. Four days after his attack on

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Tricia, Philip would contact Julissa Brisman. Julissa placed an ad on Craigslist similar

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to Tricia's. She too was looking
for work giving massages. This time,

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they would set to meet at the
Marriott in Boston. This encounter seemed to

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go differently. It appears as though
when Julissa and Philip were in the room,

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Philip presumably attempt to rob her.
Julissa seemed to resist, and this

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resulted in Philip using the gun he
had to beat her over the head.

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He would then shoot her three times, penetrating her chest, abdomen, and

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heart. Someone in a room close
by would hear the sounds of someone screaming.

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When they went to see what was
going on, they found Julissa lying

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near the doorway of her room.
Julissa would be rushed to the Boston Medical

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Center, but she would not survive
her injuries. Two days after Philip mercilessly

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killed JULIUSA Brisman, he would travel
to Warwick, Rhode Island. He would

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respond to an ad placed by Cynthia
Melton The pair would meet up at the

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Warwick Holiday in Express at eleven pm. When Philip entered Cynthia's room, he

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would pull out his gun and tell
her to lay face down on the ground.

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Just like with his previous victims,
he would bound Cynthia's hands with plastic

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ties. He attempted to place a
ball gag into Cynthia's mouth to keep her

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quiet, but he was unable to
She resisted him the best that she could.

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Cynthia would later state that she noticed
that Philip was shaking as the robbery

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continued. He seemed very nervous and
on edge as he looked through Cynthia's belongings.

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He would tell her that he had
no intentions of killing her and that

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he just wanted her money. Cynthia's
husband was at the hotel, and during

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the attack, he would enter Cynthia's
room. Philip would point his gun at

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Cynthia's husband, Keith, who would
raise his hands and slowly back up away

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from Philip. Keith would accidentally trip
and fall over, giving Philip the opportunity

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to flee the scene. Police would
quickly figure out that all of these crimes

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were connected. The time frame in
which they all occurred, and the blatant

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m pointed to one person. After
Julius's murder, investigators had been reviewing security

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footage of people going in and out
of each hotel that had reported attacks.

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Investigators were able to obtain images of
a man they believed to be the perpetrator

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of these crimes. Luckily for authorities, they were also able to access the

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correspondence that Julissa had with her last
client. Investigators were able to trace the

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IP address attached to that email to
an apartment in Quincy, Massachusett. That

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apartment belonged to Philip Markov and Megan
McAllister. Authorities noted the similarities of the

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surveillance photos and Philip Markoff. After
deciding they wanted to bring Philip in for

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questioning, they pulled him and his
fiance, Megan, over in Walpole,

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Massachusetts, as they were on their
way to Connecticut to spend the night at

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Boxwood's casino, which was about ninety
minutes away from their home. Philip and

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his fiance would be brought into the
police station for questioning regarding incidences that had

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been occurring at local casinos and hotels. Philip was immediately agitated, with investigators

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and gave them attitude as they asked
their questions. What you're about to hear

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shortly are snippets from Philip Markov's interrogation. In the beginning of their discussions,

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Philip has read his rights by the
detectives conducting the interview. Philip immediately once

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an attorney present, but doesn't seem
to understand that he would need to bring

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in representation at this stage in the
investigation. Authorities explained to him that they

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will only provide an attorney if in
fact an individual is arrested, which at

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this time Philip is not. Hi, there's a blank space. I've read

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and understand the above rights is explained
to you by me and put my name

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Detective Harris, and I will only
make a statement at this time without a

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lawyer being present. Would you like
to speak to us now? We're all

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to some questions we have to ask
you as well. It's up to yourself

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and it's a decision you have to
make. Well, it's about to a

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series of incidents that have gone on
and we just have some questions. As

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you well aware of, there's been
some reports of some robberies and a homicide,

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and we've been following a ton of
leads as a result of that stuff,

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and you're a person of interest at
this point, and we'd like to

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speak to you relative to that.
Okay, maybe can you get me a

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lawyer? Can I get you a
lawyer? Yeah, you're a right to

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get you a lawyer yourself. And
well, I don't I don't know,

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I don't know where from. Yeah, that's I mean, is that your

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decision that you'd rather have a lawyer
than to speak with me? I mean,

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yeah, I don't really know what's
but I probably should. I don't

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want to say something. It's up
to yourself. Is that you a request

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that you want to learn? Sure? I mean, can you get me

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more? Well? Would you just
so we'll understand approach under saying what's going

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on? Would you like to have
an attorney here today and then continue some

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questioning or would you like to not
to speak at all? And you can

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get an attorney because I mean,
you can make a phone call, you

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can try to have an attorney year, and you can go through the proceedings

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with the Attorney president that you wish. Yes, so I feel more comfortable

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on the Attorney president if you could
probably some one of your next rights is

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you have a right to make a
phone call. We'll let you make a

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phone call. And if you want
to try to find an attorney and have

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an attorney respond to and you can
just have somewhere here does this we have

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an attorney that does this? Or
you know? Yeah, you know?

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Apprent, stand, I don't know
what you twice you want to consult with

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an attorney before we move forward?
Is that correct? Sure? All right?

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Good type of Kenny for the record, just so let's clip. You're

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asking us to try to provide you
an attorney you don't have. Yeah,

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I don't. I don't. I
don't I don't have a liar, I

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don't know where to get there.
And you absolutely don't want to talk to

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us unless you have in the twenty
before we talk to us. Because the

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thing it is is, I don't
be very frank with you. I'm sure

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you have some idea of what we're
looking at you, right, you have

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some idea what we're talking about.
Not really, Well, you live in

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the area and you've been watching the
news. I don't really watch things to

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read the newspapers, No, not
at all. No, people minds don't

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really watch because you don't watch the
news Eye. Well, the detective talked

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about it briefly, that there's a
number of incidents that have happened in the

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area. You have physical description,
and that you were a white male with

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light colored here has triggered our interest
that you to some a certain extent.

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But as you can imagine, there's
about probably eighty thousand other people that are

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about your height, about your facial
features, about your color. Yeah,

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you're a person of interest because of
these things and some other things we would

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like to talk to about. That. I'm gonna talk to you if you

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assist not have an attorney. That
one are the other things. Well,

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until we get to this, foreman, we can't talk to you about anything.

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Okay, Well, we have to. We have to. We have

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to make sure that your rights.
I mean, we're gonna be zealous and

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making sure that your rights to preserve, all right, That is our obligation

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to the law and our obligation to
you. So I would like, I

208
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would like, can you provide me
with an attorney. We're not going to

209
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provide you an attorney, will make
it will allow you to make a phone

210
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call and you can inquire you Okay. It says you'll promim me in form.

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Well, that's that's that's the processors. That says that like if in

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fact you ended up in the court, if you were intigen, the courts

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find your indigen, then they would
provide you an attorney. That's in a

214
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different proceeding this. Right now,
you're like number one, you're not under

215
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arrest. Correct, But you said
I can have a liar right, Well,

216
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the form is you have a right
to an attorney. Okay, we

217
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don't actually give people attorney. You
can hire an attorney to move forward or

218
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at some point if you were arrested, I don't think I can afford to

219
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return. Well, I mean that's
you know. I mean that's that phone

220
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calls could be made to a company, the public Defender's office, and maybe

221
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they can make one available to you. However, you're not the deciding fact

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to whether or not you could afford
an attorney. The courts are. But

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the bottom line as far as this
interview goals, Phillips. So we're clear

224
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as you have a right to have
an attorney with you while you're being questioned.

225
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If you so choose, okay,
or you can shut down. You

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don't want to speak to us because
you want to take one of your take

227
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advantage of one of your rights and
get an attorney, and you can postpone

228
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this till another time. The way
that works, if we're going to provide

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you with an attorney, we being
the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. That means that

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there's a process in place. If
you were arrested, brought before a court

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and you tell the court that hey, look at I can't afford an attorney

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and I want one, and it's
at that point they'll either deem you indigent

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where you absolutely because of the information
you provide them you cannot afford one,

234
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and they'll provide you with a public
defender. However, if they find that

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you have the means either the family
or other areas to a florid an attorney,

236
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then they'll tell you to get into
Tuney before the next court day to

237
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hire ato any soul. But right
now you can you know, we can

238
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see what's going on if you want
an attuny. That means we shut down.

239
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Okay, but I can stop at
any time, right you can.

240
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Well, that's another one of your
rights. If you understand that is we

241
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read, you can proceed. You
can talk to us. It's your right.

242
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You have to wave it, though, you have to tell me that,

243
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Hey, look at I understand my
rights fully and I'm willing to talk

244
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to you, and I can stop
at any time. Also, that's when

245
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you started fill it out. And
is that your understanding that you're willing to

246
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talk to me? You want to
wave death? Well, you said I

247
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can stop at any time. You
can't stop at anytime? Well, I

248
00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:41.400
just want to hear what's going on
from now, So what we can start

249
00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:48.039
The detectives begin telling him what he
is actually being questioned about after he agrees

250
00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:52.799
to speak with them. As as
I alluded to early on about death,

251
00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:55.759
there's been a lot of stuff going
on, and as a result of that

252
00:17:55.799 --> 00:17:59.480
stuff, there's been hundreds of tips
coming in yet. And if you haven't

253
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read the paper, you really don't
have a close to what we're talking about.

254
00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:03.799
No, I really don't read the
paper and watch the eas. So

255
00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:07.440
in the last week or two,
you haven't heard anything about some stuff that's

256
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been going on in and around Boston. We're gotting creates lists now, I

257
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really really don't watch the names.
Okay, Well, just let me give

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you a brief synopsis of what we're
doing that. Okay, Okay, there's

259
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been a series of incidents robberies of
young girls in and around the Boston area,

260
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and as a result, with the
Boston Police Department and other agencies have

261
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asked the public for some help.
They actually printed some surveillance photographs of people

262
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that they thought might be involved in
this case, and as a result of

263
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that asking the press for some help, it generated an awful lot of phone

264
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calls. People are saying, he's
I think the guy who lives next to

265
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what to me might might be a
person of interest. Somebody else has called.

266
00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:51.759
You know, I work in such
a such a place and you know,

267
00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:53.480
just dude, who who comes in
here every day? You know what

268
00:18:53.519 --> 00:18:56.799
it is? You know, you
know what I'm saying. So we are

269
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following up each and every lead that
comes across the falls. I can tell

270
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you as I sit here in my
limited capacity, there's a photograph in one

271
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of the surveillance photographs, so a
couple of us available photographs. There's a

272
00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:14.079
strong likeness and image to your self
phone one of the reasons why you are

273
00:19:14.119 --> 00:19:18.839
here. The detective goes on to
ask Philip more about himself. They discussed

274
00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:22.319
the fact that he is a medical
student and that he lives in Quincy with

275
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his fiancee Megan. After some chit
chat, the detective asks Philip if he

276
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has been to any hotels recently.
Tell me this, Have you ever been

277
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to some of the hotels downtown Boston
in the past week? Is all not

278
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in the past? Wreak? Okay? And before the past week, maybe

279
00:19:38.839 --> 00:19:42.440
two weeks? You tell me,
Well, all my dad was my dad

280
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and his wife were in Boston maybe
in February, and they stayed at a

281
00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:51.279
hotel. Okay, in what hotel
is that? I don't remember. It's

282
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one of the ones near a parential
center. You have a potential sound is

283
00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:56.720
that the last time, Philip,
that you're at a hotel? I believe

284
00:19:56.720 --> 00:19:59.880
it? All? Right there?
Could you have been there like recently into

285
00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:03.000
don't we call it? I could
have like walked through the lobby? Okay?

286
00:20:03.039 --> 00:20:04.200
Do you have a memory of doing
that recently? I don't have a

287
00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:08.160
memory of it off the time of
Yeah. Right, Um, if you

288
00:20:08.279 --> 00:20:11.240
think for a second, is there
a possibility that maybe you did do something

289
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like that walk through the lobby?
Yeah? Maybe I don't remember. What

290
00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:18.200
would cause you, as a medical
student from being able to walk to the

291
00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:22.240
lobby. Well, the Financial Center. Isn't it connected to all the hotels?

292
00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:26.640
So that's to go from like walk
through the pencil center. Yeah,

293
00:20:26.759 --> 00:20:30.039
don't you have often walked through hotel
hobbies? Um? Yeah? What hotel

294
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is connected to the potential center?
And I don't I don't really, I

295
00:20:32.519 --> 00:20:34.359
don't really know thatself. Well do
you have do you have? What?

296
00:20:34.359 --> 00:20:37.799
What brings you to the potential set
if you don't have been there a handful

297
00:20:37.839 --> 00:20:41.039
of times? Yeah? Is it
just like coffee shop? At? What

298
00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:44.000
brings you down there? All those
reasons? Yeah? All of those,

299
00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:48.680
Um, but no one, no
one hotel jumps at I would at you

300
00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:52.079
as well. Not really, you
do have a specific memory of being in

301
00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:55.880
one in that area when your mum
and dad went intel. Yeah they were

302
00:20:55.880 --> 00:21:00.880
in one okay? And where were
your parents? Felt Saracus, Syracuse?

303
00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:04.000
Okay? And how long have you
been in the in the Boston alo?

304
00:21:04.119 --> 00:21:07.400
What's what year are you going to
be? I'm finishing out my second year,

305
00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:11.440
the second year, all right?
And you have you lived at that

306
00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:15.279
Quincy address since then? Since I
started an I lived in South Boston and

307
00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:19.240
then I moved to Quincy. Um, how does it feel to be wrapped

308
00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:22.039
up in this stuff. I mean, this is this your first time being

309
00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:26.000
involved at this annoys that you worked
at the youth court. What do you

310
00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:29.079
think about about being dragged in here
on it? I don't know. I'm

311
00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:32.079
just trying to figure out what's going
on, okay. And as you know,

312
00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:36.160
I mean, if you have some
familiarization with the courts, especially,

313
00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:40.079
it's something that's I'd say it's it's
an investigation. You know the unit you're

314
00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:41.279
now did you see the sign when
you walked in the door. No,

315
00:21:41.839 --> 00:21:45.000
it says the homicide unit. And
I introduced myself as a homicide detective.

316
00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:49.359
So that tells you at least something
something that we're talking some serious stuff here,

317
00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:53.960
okay. Um, and following the
tips and ever since going back to

318
00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:59.640
the OJ case, the sensationalism of
the OJ case which causes the public to

319
00:21:59.720 --> 00:22:03.880
reach wand and following leads, we're
kind of like, you know, we're

320
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at, you know, a point
where people call stuff in and we follow

321
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up on it, regardless of what
it is. Because in the courts people

322
00:22:12.440 --> 00:22:15.799
will say, well, you know, forty five phone calls, commit you

323
00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:18.319
followed up one or two of them? Why didn't you do them all?

324
00:22:18.839 --> 00:22:23.519
And I can tell you is that
there's a strong likeliness to one of the

325
00:22:23.559 --> 00:22:29.599
photographs and the surveillance photos, such
as yourself. So I was just maybe

326
00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:34.039
hoping that you had some explanation to
say if I gave you a date a

327
00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:37.680
couple of weeks ago, if you
would to tell me there's a reason why

328
00:22:37.720 --> 00:22:41.440
you were there and the person in
the photograph was deemed to be you,

329
00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:45.160
then maybe you have a logical explanation
for being in that area. But you

330
00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:48.359
don't seem to call to mind,
well, I want not to eat a

331
00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:52.519
chasecake factory a couple of weeks ago, which is right there? Can't remember

332
00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:56.440
do you remember the day that might
have been? Although I don't I don't

333
00:22:56.440 --> 00:22:59.799
remember that. I understand because sometimes
I don't even know that you know,

334
00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:02.319
day of the week. It is
what data is now. But as far

335
00:23:02.359 --> 00:23:03.599
as the you know, going on
to a restaurant, people might say,

336
00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:07.200
well, i'd like it there on
Wednesday nights because they have a good special

337
00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:10.240
Do you happen to remember, don't. I don't go out to you much.

338
00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:12.000
And I went out with Meggan and
a couple of friends and we go

339
00:23:12.079 --> 00:23:15.759
shopping there sometimes the Perdential Center.
All right, when you say it was

340
00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:18.720
a couple of weeks ago. I
don't remember when of us. During the

341
00:23:18.759 --> 00:23:23.160
interrogation they bring up the Weston Hotel
and asked Philip was he there in the

342
00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:30.119
last few weeks? Was there any
reason or anything at all to cause you

343
00:23:30.200 --> 00:23:34.160
to have been yet in the last
couple of weeks? I mean maybe if

344
00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:37.759
I was walking through it? Yeah, well, well, can you call

345
00:23:37.839 --> 00:23:40.039
something to mind, Philip, what
would have brought you? We need to

346
00:23:40.079 --> 00:23:42.880
walk through it. I'm not sure
you're gonna place the Weston? Can you

347
00:23:42.920 --> 00:23:48.359
picture the Weston now? Can you
get you where it is? It's been

348
00:23:48.440 --> 00:23:49.799
like that's next to the financial Center, isn't it. Yes, Well,

349
00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:52.359
if you look at the Findential Center
in the cheesecakes, have you walked up

350
00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:56.799
Punting Day have on the outside the
left the cheesecake is on the left hand

351
00:23:56.839 --> 00:24:00.279
side, and then moving forward straight
inbound, the Weston would be up anybody

352
00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:06.079
inside? Can you picture it?
I guess it sounds familiar. I think

353
00:24:06.079 --> 00:24:08.359
it connects to the Practial Center.
Yeah, well like beause I think when

354
00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:11.720
my brother was staying there, I
walked back and forth. I think it's

355
00:24:11.720 --> 00:24:15.480
a connection the footbridge. I guess
I don't I don't remember. Yeah,

356
00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:18.200
but you have no clear memory you're
being here in the last couple of weeks.

357
00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:22.680
I don't. I don't remember.
No, Clay remember No, there's

358
00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:29.599
another hotel dom moving closer to the
cheesecake factory. They marry it. Okay,

359
00:24:29.839 --> 00:24:32.279
can you picture that at all?
Yeah, I've eaten at that part

360
00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:37.160
there which the end of that place. It's a sports bark. I watched

361
00:24:37.359 --> 00:24:41.319
a Red Sox playoff game with yeah, man and pizza playoff game. So

362
00:24:41.440 --> 00:24:45.759
last year was that the last time
you were there at the bar? I

363
00:24:45.759 --> 00:24:48.799
think so. I'm not sure,
becauld you have been there in the last

364
00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:51.839
week, until it's possible. I
don't remember. I don't think I wasn't

365
00:24:51.880 --> 00:24:55.880
I wasn't a champions I don't think
it's champions boys up. Yeah, I

366
00:24:55.880 --> 00:24:56.599
mean you were. I went there. I there, But then a couple

367
00:24:56.640 --> 00:25:00.799
of times, we're pretty shocked.
You unless it's too the way it is

368
00:25:00.839 --> 00:25:03.079
on TV with medical students and stuff, you just flat out. I mean,

369
00:25:03.079 --> 00:25:06.119
it's only been a week or two. You don't even re member you're

370
00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:07.960
being there in the last week or
so, And though I haven't really done

371
00:25:07.960 --> 00:25:11.920
anything last week. Philip is holding
strong that he has no recollection of being

372
00:25:11.960 --> 00:25:17.079
at the hotels that the detective is
asking him about. Actually, he doesn't

373
00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:19.759
seem to have any memory of what
he's been up to the last few weeks.

374
00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:29.039
I don't really remember what I was
doing sixteenth anykindn't remember hotels where,

375
00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:33.160
anywhere? Anywhere? And I'm trying
to help you really doesn't help. No,

376
00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:38.400
I don't think I fifteen fourteen,
a couple of weeks gone in the

377
00:25:38.440 --> 00:25:41.680
moment. Days. No, And
again I can understand and for the most

378
00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:45.200
but we have such hectic lifestyles and
I can't imagine what yours is like.

379
00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:51.319
There's a medical student with remember when
day in the next, But I mean

380
00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:56.960
some of you doesn't frequent hotels only
when parents or the family's in and around

381
00:25:56.480 --> 00:26:00.240
town. I would think that maybe
you'd remember that you have a reason to

382
00:26:00.279 --> 00:26:04.119
be about, you know, because
I tell you something. The photographs are

383
00:26:04.119 --> 00:26:10.440
pretty pretty clear um as to why
people would call suggesting, you know,

384
00:26:10.519 --> 00:26:12.720
to take a look at you.
Um. But you don't have any member

385
00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:18.640
being in any of these places in
the last couple of weeks. Is that

386
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:22.119
true? Or are you saying it
could be possible. I don't really remember.

387
00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:23.720
To be honest, I mean,
I might have been there when I

388
00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:29.440
was at the cheesecake factory or something. I don't remember. Well, you

389
00:26:29.480 --> 00:26:32.400
wouldn't have gone over there got a
room afterwards? Why your college student?

390
00:26:32.440 --> 00:26:33.799
And it sounds like your money is
lacking, So you wouldn't have gone over

391
00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:37.039
to get a room with begging?
Correct? When? Whatnot any night in

392
00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:40.960
the last couple of weeks, Well, we're going to We're going to get

393
00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:44.000
a room of Foxws tonight, or
you wouldn't going to fox I booked the

394
00:26:44.079 --> 00:26:45.519
room tonight. Yeah, okay,
you booked a room down there? Yeah,

395
00:26:45.640 --> 00:26:48.960
but what hotel do you don't?
Do you remember my FOXWS hot Town?

396
00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:55.079
That's that's the neighborhood sam jam Ground. Okay. Do you gamble sometimes?

397
00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:59.440
Yeah? Yeah, so I get
discounts in town rooms. Oh good.

398
00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:04.599
The detective then asked Philip what are
he's thinking about during this questioning process?

399
00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:10.039
What goes through your mind? Is
as I'm asking all these questions.

400
00:27:10.119 --> 00:27:12.000
I know you're a pretty great kid. What goes through your mind? I

401
00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:15.119
know you're trying to you said that
you you know, you understand what's happened,

402
00:27:15.160 --> 00:27:18.359
and you're trying to figure out what's
going on. What's going through your

403
00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:22.160
mind. Do you have an understanding
of what this is all about? I

404
00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:25.640
understand what you're time. Do you
understand Yeah, I think I understand how

405
00:27:25.640 --> 00:27:27.480
we're flowing up and stuff. And
you know, in this homicide business and

406
00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:34.720
in these serious investigations robbery m ninety
nine percent of the time investigators, we

407
00:27:34.839 --> 00:27:40.799
spend trying to prove who did not
commit the crime as opposed to who did

408
00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:45.160
do the crime. You're following,
um, And that's where we spend an

409
00:27:45.160 --> 00:27:48.359
awful lot of work. We have
to cross our teas and dought our eyes,

410
00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:51.599
and especially in a case like this, we reach out to the public

411
00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:56.440
and ask for health. It makes
things a lot more tedious for us.

412
00:27:56.960 --> 00:28:00.839
And as you sit there and somebody
who's a person of interest because of the

413
00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:07.359
images and the likenesses on the on
the surveillance footage is it kind of makes

414
00:28:07.359 --> 00:28:11.400
our jump that much more difficult,
you know, And we appreciate your cooperation.

415
00:28:11.559 --> 00:28:15.519
But it's serious business. It's serious
business, and I can tell you

416
00:28:15.559 --> 00:28:18.519
this. And as I've said homicide
a couple of times, clearly you must

417
00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:23.799
think that it involves a murder.
I've also mentioned the murder robbery and involves

418
00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:32.759
Rover and sometimes Philip, when things
happen, it's a pretty ugly situation.

419
00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:37.680
We don't mean them to happen.
You know, they may happen accidentally.

420
00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:41.839
But as kids, when we do
something stupid or we start to get out

421
00:28:41.880 --> 00:28:45.359
of a road, we should we
get some advice that, you know,

422
00:28:45.880 --> 00:28:49.240
the time, if some shit happens
and it's ugly, it's it only makes

423
00:28:49.359 --> 00:28:53.759
things worse if you're lying about it. So if you're affording an opportunity to

424
00:28:53.880 --> 00:29:00.640
just be truthful and explain, attempt
to explain your side the story, so

425
00:29:00.759 --> 00:29:03.279
to speak, it just makes things
a lot easier, uh, you know,

426
00:29:03.400 --> 00:29:10.880
moving forward, and especially when you
have complicated situations, when there's lines

427
00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:15.519
attached to it, it just kind
of makes things really not that much more

428
00:29:15.559 --> 00:29:22.200
complicated, and it's difficult. It's
difficult to rationalize, you know, why

429
00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:26.559
things happened, you know. Um
And again that's why it's kind of like

430
00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:30.200
for me to try to ask you
to remember if you're in a hotel myself.

431
00:29:30.279 --> 00:29:32.759
Now we're in a limited capacity and
you know, so much money.

432
00:29:32.799 --> 00:29:34.240
If I was at a hotel,
everybody something that, Yeah, sure,

433
00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:38.119
I remember that I was down at
the the marriage just three nights ago.

434
00:29:38.240 --> 00:29:41.480
I was with, you know,
a hot looking girl. We had a

435
00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:44.039
couple of drinks and I was trying
to get a room or something. I

436
00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:47.680
mean, those are memories that we'd
always have. But to you, I

437
00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:49.599
mean, if you're going to Foxwoods
all the time, maybe that's the explanation

438
00:29:49.720 --> 00:29:53.759
for why you kind of call it
to mind h for not being there.

439
00:29:55.359 --> 00:29:57.279
But then again, if you're willing
to work with me and try to try

440
00:29:57.319 --> 00:30:00.480
to, you know, figure out
if you will, idea that might explain

441
00:30:02.200 --> 00:30:04.680
why was Sitney in today? But
if you sit there and you just have

442
00:30:04.839 --> 00:30:11.200
no absolute, positively no remember you're
being there, it just it just doesn't

443
00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:14.480
help things. You know. Well, I said, I have no specific

444
00:30:14.559 --> 00:30:17.640
memory. I'm talk through Yeah,
but that's what I mean. I mean,

445
00:30:17.720 --> 00:30:19.240
like I've walked through there often,
I don't I don't know specifically.

446
00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:23.039
Is there a possibility that you walk
to there in the last couple of weeks?

447
00:30:23.079 --> 00:30:26.880
Hey, I said that. At
this point in the conversation, the

448
00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:30.519
detectives bring up Craigslist and ask Philip
if he uses the site for anything,

449
00:30:30.680 --> 00:30:36.440
and also to list all of his
email addresses that he has used. The

450
00:30:36.559 --> 00:30:41.319
conversation then turns back to Craigslist and
if you listen closely, you can tell

451
00:30:41.440 --> 00:30:45.680
by the sound of his voice that
Philip is growing more and more impatient during

452
00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:48.960
this interview. So let's talk about
Craigslist. Was the last time you're on

453
00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:55.480
Craigslist? I do not remember?
I mean again, can we do that?

454
00:30:56.240 --> 00:30:59.000
Was I on it two weeks ago? A month ago? I don't

455
00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:02.319
remember? Could you have been?
I mean, that's the next question.

456
00:31:02.400 --> 00:31:04.440
I guess. Yeah. You know, a lot of times, Philippin,

457
00:31:04.440 --> 00:31:07.319
you're gonna be with me, And
it might sound stupid, but you know

458
00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:11.039
a lot of times we know the
answers to the questions. But it's just

459
00:31:11.079 --> 00:31:15.960
to affording you an opportunity to,
you know, be completely fourth white with

460
00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:18.640
me, and just in the interest
of helping to get this done, okay,

461
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:22.480
helping to clear your name or to
you know, as I said,

462
00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:25.759
we spend an awful lot of times
funny to prove you did not comment,

463
00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:29.920
you know, so if you could
work with me a little bit, I'm

464
00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:32.640
trying to I know you. So
let me ask you that once, when

465
00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:34.519
you think it was the last time, you may have I don't know,

466
00:31:37.640 --> 00:31:41.440
no idea, I don't know.
What does that indicate that it's been that

467
00:31:41.680 --> 00:31:45.920
long? They just don't have a
memory of it or I'm not sure with

468
00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:52.079
that any cans. So if I
was asking you what you want it this

469
00:31:52.119 --> 00:31:56.160
morning, that would be a no. I was not on it this morning.

470
00:31:56.599 --> 00:31:59.519
What about yesterday? I don't know. I don't know. I don't

471
00:31:59.559 --> 00:32:06.480
remember. Okay, So as far
as that goes, now, have you

472
00:32:06.599 --> 00:32:12.319
had any problems that you know with
some females lately in any of the in

473
00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:16.319
any situation. Now, heart of
this investigation involves some women who have been

474
00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:22.960
assaulted, and that's what caused the
police to be spoiled. That's what caused

475
00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:30.039
us to you know, post some
photographs looking for help because it all started

476
00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:35.720
in some rooms. The detective asks
if there's anything Philip can tell them to

477
00:32:35.759 --> 00:32:40.359
help them in their investigation. Is
there anything that you can tell us that

478
00:32:40.519 --> 00:32:45.759
might help us in what I'm asking
you about. I don't think so.

479
00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:52.000
And again we're kind of at a
loss here because you have absolutely no clue,

480
00:32:52.039 --> 00:32:55.279
according to you, about what's been
going on in and around the city

481
00:32:55.279 --> 00:32:59.920
of Boston be guiding women who have
been assaulted. Correct, no clue?

482
00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:01.880
Yeah, I haven't been no clue. I ever seen anything in the paper.

483
00:33:02.079 --> 00:33:05.160
No, that's that's true. That's
true. I have seen any of

484
00:33:05.200 --> 00:33:07.559
the paper and never seen anything in
the news in the last couple Now,

485
00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:10.279
I really don't watch them. Yeah, girlfriends would not have brought it to

486
00:33:10.279 --> 00:33:14.119
your attention. Geez, look at
this I just saw you know. No,

487
00:33:14.480 --> 00:33:17.279
I don't really watch talk. So
no conversations with anything with anybody in

488
00:33:17.319 --> 00:33:22.000
your circle of travel that may mention
just to what's going on here? Right?

489
00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:27.200
Um? What about outside to see
of Boston? Any any hotels other

490
00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:30.559
than fox Was that you may have
visited lately? No other than fox Was.

491
00:33:30.799 --> 00:33:34.559
Have you been in Rhode Island at
all lately? Well, I guess

492
00:33:35.559 --> 00:33:38.359
okay, do you stop? Have
you stopped going through Rhode Island at a

493
00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:43.440
hotel? A little maybe to get
gass at a hotel? At a hotel?

494
00:33:43.559 --> 00:33:46.079
Yeah, well that's what I asked. Did you stopped? I don't

495
00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:50.440
think so. On the way through. You don't think so. You don't

496
00:33:50.440 --> 00:33:52.359
think you're at a hotel Rhode Island, I don't think so. Okay,

497
00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:55.359
you seem to be getting a little
frustrated. Yeah, you're getting asking me

498
00:33:55.400 --> 00:34:00.440
the same question. Well, I
moved on from the Weston and moved on

499
00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:04.799
from to marry it and now I'm
in the state of what Island. You

500
00:34:04.920 --> 00:34:07.400
say that you go to Foxwoods all
the time, and I'm just asking it.

501
00:34:07.559 --> 00:34:12.360
Maybe you stopped into a hotel of
what Island. Maybe I don't know.

502
00:34:12.800 --> 00:34:15.800
Okay, what do you think?
What do you think? What do

503
00:34:15.800 --> 00:34:20.239
you think I'm going with all this? Don't what are your thoughts? Talk

504
00:34:20.280 --> 00:34:23.559
to me for a minute instead of
answering all the questions, tell me what

505
00:34:23.639 --> 00:34:25.679
your thoughts are. Tell me what
you feel right now, because you seem

506
00:34:25.679 --> 00:34:30.639
to get a little frustrated with me, and I can understand, I can

507
00:34:30.719 --> 00:34:34.440
understand where you're coming from. Pel
Let me say this to you. Okay,

508
00:34:34.880 --> 00:34:38.400
If in fact you have the guy
in the photographs, that's one thing,

509
00:34:39.159 --> 00:34:44.119
because you could just be simply that
guy passing to the hotel, passing

510
00:34:44.199 --> 00:34:47.239
to little lobby, somebody that's all
with your girlfriend at the Chief Tape factory,

511
00:34:47.679 --> 00:34:51.360
walking through going to a parking lot
to get your kind of goal.

512
00:34:51.639 --> 00:34:55.360
It could be that simple. But
it also could be the guy who just

513
00:34:55.480 --> 00:35:02.440
left hotel room with something a ride
and you're leaving there and you are a

514
00:35:02.559 --> 00:35:12.039
suspect who has a story to be
told. Whatever happened in the hotel room

515
00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:15.880
that speaks to a certain set of
facts. If you happen to be the

516
00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:21.840
guy that's leaving that hotel room,
it's picked up on surveillance cameras. You

517
00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:27.320
may have another piece of that story
and you could just throw that on the

518
00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:31.679
table right now, and that may
explain things. Or you could be,

519
00:35:31.719 --> 00:35:37.280
as we said, just simply that
guy passing through. But is it more

520
00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:39.840
than a coincidence if you're that guy
who just happened to pass to the Weston

521
00:35:40.760 --> 00:35:45.840
Weston Hotel, and again maybe that
same guy who passes to the Marriott,

522
00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:52.360
the same guy who maybe passes to
a hotel in warwork. It could be.

523
00:35:53.000 --> 00:35:55.360
It could be because it seems that
maybe these are things you do,

524
00:35:55.920 --> 00:36:00.280
but it could also be more than
that, and it could be something that

525
00:36:00.400 --> 00:36:05.400
you know, who knows what happens. Maybe some girls have pissed at you,

526
00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:08.519
maybe whatever's going on, whatever your
thing is, maybe no who knows?

527
00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:14.039
Who knows unless you throw it out
there. If that's you, the

528
00:36:14.079 --> 00:36:16.360
guy that's actually been in some of
those wounds with some of these females,

529
00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:22.039
and maybe they, you know,
trying to set you up with something.

530
00:36:23.880 --> 00:36:28.400
Who knows unless you tell us.
I clearly don't know, because I wasn't

531
00:36:28.440 --> 00:36:31.360
there. But if you say you're
simply the guy that may have passed to

532
00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:34.719
it, you don't even have a
clear memory to be able to tell me

533
00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:39.039
that. You know, you do
seem to frequent fox with because you seem

534
00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:43.400
to get on there a lot according
to yourself. Right, Is there any

535
00:36:43.400 --> 00:36:46.800
other reason other than just maybe I
passed? Do you have a thing you

536
00:36:46.880 --> 00:36:51.320
hook up with girls that you meet
and you just don't want to megan to

537
00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:53.519
know about it, which is perfectly
understandable. Over the years, a lot

538
00:36:53.559 --> 00:36:59.360
of times guys sitting there they want
to tell a story, but they don't

539
00:36:59.360 --> 00:37:02.760
want to chimp in relationships. They
don't want to ruin an engagement, they

540
00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:07.039
don't want to end up in divorce
court because they have these things for you

541
00:37:07.039 --> 00:37:09.800
know, they were girlfriend on the
side of something, so that may prevent

542
00:37:09.880 --> 00:37:15.280
them for being completely honest and something
like that. That's that's like a barrier

543
00:37:15.320 --> 00:37:20.639
in this business. If it's that
simple and that's what throws me off,

544
00:37:22.559 --> 00:37:24.480
you know, then trust me,
the thing to do is just to be

545
00:37:24.559 --> 00:37:30.159
honest and throw it out there and
explain why this is going on. Explain

546
00:37:30.239 --> 00:37:34.000
why you're sitting here on the homy
side unit. You know at three o'clock

547
00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:40.880
and you afternoon. There's an explanation
for everything. You know, things happen

548
00:37:40.960 --> 00:37:46.519
for a reason, Philip. We
can't have back what happened, but we

549
00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:51.000
can't make it right. And how
do we make it right? Just by

550
00:37:51.039 --> 00:37:54.960
being honest? Just by being honest
when we start dancing around the tooth,

551
00:37:55.079 --> 00:37:59.920
that's why things get all kind of
discombobulated, and you kind of look at

552
00:37:59.920 --> 00:38:02.199
me, you get frustrated. He
I answered that already, And that's what

553
00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:07.480
happens when you're dancing around the tooth. I think you know. I think

554
00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:10.039
you know that. You may have
been in some of these places. I

555
00:38:10.119 --> 00:38:14.239
think you know that, and you're
just not clear as to how you want

556
00:38:14.239 --> 00:38:17.719
to tell me, you know,
And the best thing to do when the

557
00:38:17.719 --> 00:38:21.400
ship hits the fan, as I
said earlier, also, it's just a

558
00:38:21.480 --> 00:38:23.920
man up. Look at this has
happened. This is what happened, but

559
00:38:23.960 --> 00:38:27.480
this is why it happened. It's
not who I am. I didn't do

560
00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:31.280
those things. This is what actually
happened. This is my story. I'm

561
00:38:31.320 --> 00:38:35.480
not a stupid little shit. I
know what happened, and I know why

562
00:38:35.519 --> 00:38:38.000
it happened, and I can make
it right by just being honest. That

563
00:38:38.119 --> 00:38:43.239
honesty is the key to you know, just move forward, and it opens

564
00:38:43.320 --> 00:38:47.679
up all those different doors when you're
honest with yourself and it actually be honesty

565
00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:55.480
is what explains our behavior. Without
honesty, one sided stories can be pretty

566
00:38:55.559 --> 00:39:01.320
ugly, can be real ugly because
all we have is the evidence of the

567
00:39:01.400 --> 00:39:07.320
scene, and that scene can be
ugly and can speak to you can speak

568
00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:13.760
to ugliness. But does the answer
what we're here? You follow me again?

569
00:39:13.800 --> 00:39:15.519
You just know, and the tape
doesn't pick that up. I'm so

570
00:39:15.639 --> 00:39:19.000
sure I'm following you, you're follow
me. You don't see what I'm saying.

571
00:39:19.000 --> 00:39:22.039
I mean, yeah, but if
we have an incident in the in

572
00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:27.360
the Western Hotel and some girl is
there and she's irate and she's pissed because

573
00:39:27.360 --> 00:39:30.880
of this, and because of that, that's her version, you say,

574
00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:36.800
if you move on to the next
girl, into the next girl, But

575
00:39:37.159 --> 00:39:39.480
there was somebody else that was there, some person that left, some person

576
00:39:39.559 --> 00:39:44.559
that's walk into the lobby afterwards,
who has a story to be told.

577
00:39:45.239 --> 00:39:50.719
Finally, Philip is asked again what
his involvement is in the slew of assaults

578
00:39:50.719 --> 00:39:54.960
and robberies that have taken place at
various hotels. His frustration grows, and

579
00:39:55.039 --> 00:40:01.360
he inevitably asks for an attorney.
It's not easy, Philip, and things

580
00:40:01.400 --> 00:40:05.719
happen. Stuff happens, but we
can't make it right. Fall back to

581
00:40:05.719 --> 00:40:09.559
a long we you know, brought
up little eyes turned into big lies,

582
00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:15.119
and big lives turns into you know, big bags of of of of shit,

583
00:40:15.320 --> 00:40:19.599
so to speak, you know,
But if we step up, speak

584
00:40:19.679 --> 00:40:23.000
from the hot Hey, okay,
listen, nobody ever meant for things to

585
00:40:23.079 --> 00:40:28.760
go the way they went. But
this is what happened. Maybe maybe maybe

586
00:40:28.800 --> 00:40:31.519
it was an accident, maybe it
was maybe you were provoked, or maybe

587
00:40:31.559 --> 00:40:37.119
you know, things things gone ugly
and you were a victim here at some

588
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:40.760
point, you know, But who
knows. Unless you speak up, who

589
00:40:40.760 --> 00:40:45.480
knows who'll live in them? Right
now, we're left from one side of

590
00:40:47.400 --> 00:40:53.840
the table, one set of facts. I'm just asking you, Philip,

591
00:40:53.840 --> 00:40:58.639
if you can find it in yourself
to man up and step up, if

592
00:40:58.679 --> 00:41:02.800
that's you, that's beyond that casual
stroll through the hotel, to speak to

593
00:41:02.840 --> 00:41:06.679
it, to speak to what might
have happened, what might have went wrong,

594
00:41:07.159 --> 00:41:15.800
Because it's happening. It's happening,
and I think you deserve it to

595
00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:19.639
yourself, just to step up and
lay it on the table. You know,

596
00:41:20.880 --> 00:41:27.920
it is what it is. There's
no making it right. But we

597
00:41:28.039 --> 00:41:37.559
can end it with the truth,
you know, and explain pretty justification to

598
00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:44.719
why it happened. I'm gonna ask
you, Philip, the first incident that

599
00:41:44.760 --> 00:41:49.599
I spoke to in the Western hotel, a girl was robbed. Do you

600
00:41:49.599 --> 00:41:54.239
have anything to do with that now, Philip? Well, I just answered,

601
00:41:55.480 --> 00:42:02.199
there's a girl in an hotel room
that was tied up in up in

602
00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:07.800
the Weston. That's her story.
Are you in that room at night?

603
00:42:09.519 --> 00:42:13.920
I didn't tie the robin. You
didn't tire or about anybody because you have

604
00:42:14.039 --> 00:42:19.639
been in that room and maybe somebody
else did. No, No, is

605
00:42:19.639 --> 00:42:22.159
there any do you have an understanding
of what it is I'm talking about to

606
00:42:22.199 --> 00:42:27.920
you when I'm asking you just to
step up and I'm listening to what you're

607
00:42:27.960 --> 00:42:30.719
saying, it doesn't really apply to
him? No, okay? And it

608
00:42:30.840 --> 00:42:32.360
was just like, can't my main
story? I don't know. I'm telling

609
00:42:32.360 --> 00:42:35.360
you a story. I don't have
anything to add to it. Okay,

610
00:42:35.360 --> 00:42:37.679
Well, I'm telling you a story. Is if that right now? In

611
00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:43.559
this story? Your role in the
story is you're the casual stroll up Maybe,

612
00:42:43.800 --> 00:42:45.800
well, I don't I'm not in
the story. I don't know.

613
00:42:45.960 --> 00:42:47.639
Well, well, you are out
in the sense that you're sitting here as

614
00:42:47.679 --> 00:42:52.800
a story unfolded prior to your arriving
here. Your role in the story is

615
00:42:52.840 --> 00:43:00.079
that of maybe somebody who passed love
to love. That's you, will correct.

616
00:43:01.039 --> 00:43:04.440
I don't know how to answer that. It is. Again, it's

617
00:43:04.440 --> 00:43:07.840
only a scenario that I'm applying to
this story as it's unfolding it. And

618
00:43:07.880 --> 00:43:12.360
I'm asking that if you're the guy
that was more more than the casual stool

619
00:43:12.719 --> 00:43:15.880
that may have been up in the
room, somehow, some way, some

620
00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:20.000
shape before could entice into a room
and something good ugly, maybe you have

621
00:43:20.119 --> 00:43:22.599
an explanation as to what might have
happened up there. I don't really know

622
00:43:22.639 --> 00:43:24.719
what you're talking about. And I
could, I mean, this is why

623
00:43:24.760 --> 00:43:27.639
I wish I had a higher there. I could. I could just be

624
00:43:27.719 --> 00:43:30.239
like nodding along and agreeing to something
there, and that's fine. I don't

625
00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:34.440
really mean that that didn't happen.
And again, Philip, you are alluding

626
00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:37.639
to a lawyer, and we need
to, you know, expound upon that

627
00:43:37.159 --> 00:43:40.079
you if you want a lawyer.
We are stopping this interview, I know,

628
00:43:40.119 --> 00:43:44.199
because that's when you're right. It's
okay, that's a right that you

629
00:43:44.320 --> 00:43:49.199
have if you that unsure of proceeding
with well, the way you're the way

630
00:43:49.199 --> 00:43:52.639
you're phrasing things, it seems like
I could just be nodding or saying yes,

631
00:43:52.679 --> 00:43:55.440
and the way you're questioning me,
I could be agreeing to anything saying

632
00:43:55.480 --> 00:43:58.800
yes or no. I don't really
Well, that's why I wish someone was

633
00:43:58.800 --> 00:44:01.119
here to like tell me that I'm
am I nodding my head or something.

634
00:44:01.119 --> 00:44:04.920
I'm agreeing to something you're saying no, that's fine, and you know why

635
00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:06.920
I wish I had one, but
I don't really going to call for a

636
00:44:06.960 --> 00:44:07.880
life. Well, that's fine.
You know what. We're going to stop

637
00:44:07.960 --> 00:44:13.920
this interview because you wanted at that's
your choice. You want Atty correct I

638
00:44:14.039 --> 00:44:15.639
yes, if you're just gonna keep
asking me the same questions over and over,

639
00:44:15.880 --> 00:44:20.320
okay and again, it's just so
you're clear as far as you're nodding

640
00:44:21.159 --> 00:44:23.559
agreeing to anything, you know what's
going on. You're not agreeing or nodding

641
00:44:23.599 --> 00:44:28.679
to anything that you don't want to. You've understood the question. So far,

642
00:44:29.079 --> 00:44:32.159
you've alluded to having attorney present,
so we're going to give you that,

643
00:44:32.199 --> 00:44:37.159
okay. In a separate room,
Megan, Philip's fiance, was questioned

644
00:44:37.519 --> 00:44:40.519
during her interview. She has asked
basic questions about Philip and their life together.

645
00:44:42.079 --> 00:44:45.760
Megan would typically spend a week or
two at home in New Jersey,

646
00:44:45.039 --> 00:44:50.000
but the other time she lived with
Philip in the apartment in Quincy. The

647
00:44:50.039 --> 00:44:53.360
detective would ask a lot of questions
about their financial situation. They would learn

648
00:44:53.400 --> 00:44:58.320
that Meghan was having difficulty finding part
time work. She would turn to services

649
00:44:58.320 --> 00:45:01.719
like Craigslist to find a job,
but she had little luck. So due

650
00:45:01.719 --> 00:45:06.480
to the lack of income, Philip
would take care of their finances with loans

651
00:45:06.519 --> 00:45:12.000
he took out for school. Eventually, the conversation turns as to why Megan

652
00:45:12.079 --> 00:45:15.239
and Philip are being questioned. Can
I ask what this is about? Yet?

653
00:45:15.280 --> 00:45:22.559
I know? Sure, Okay,
We're investigating some activity from the computer

654
00:45:22.679 --> 00:45:32.519
radio house for online massage services.
Online massage services, yes, someone that's

655
00:45:32.519 --> 00:45:37.719
just the computer when your home.
There have been calls asking you know how

656
00:45:37.719 --> 00:45:42.199
I said about the nail salon.
There have been calls from that guy that

657
00:45:42.440 --> 00:45:47.280
you know massage like, can I
schedule a massage and now massage with nail

658
00:45:47.320 --> 00:45:52.679
service. We've gotten calls like that. That's the kind of that's the question

659
00:45:52.719 --> 00:45:55.320
that I asked you, or any
of the calls explicit either you know,

660
00:45:55.480 --> 00:46:00.480
trending a nature because we're just like
three or four times now just like,

661
00:46:00.639 --> 00:46:05.559
oh can I schedule a massage?
Something like that. Megan believes that they

662
00:46:05.639 --> 00:46:09.199
may be referring to her Internet searches
looking for spas and salons. She would

663
00:46:09.239 --> 00:46:13.920
state during her interview that she has
a bad back, so much so that

664
00:46:13.960 --> 00:46:17.679
it has affected her ability to work
certain jobs, and she frequently gets massages,

665
00:46:19.199 --> 00:46:23.239
but the detective was referring to soliciting
services via Craigslist. Megan would talk

666
00:46:23.280 --> 00:46:28.440
about how their home phone would get
a lot of prank calls or people calling

667
00:46:28.440 --> 00:46:31.679
and asking about services, but Philip
would brush them off and eventually tell her

668
00:46:31.719 --> 00:46:36.519
not to answer them anymore. Later
in the interview, detectives would show Megan

669
00:46:36.559 --> 00:46:45.119
a photograph and ask her if she
recognizes the person in the picture. The

670
00:46:45.199 --> 00:46:54.280
individual in the picture, where is
this? I'm not asking the individual in

671
00:46:54.320 --> 00:47:02.519
the picture that looks like though it
looks like Phil okay, And I asked

672
00:47:02.519 --> 00:47:15.880
you to look at another another picture. Who's that I cannot tell? Does

673
00:47:15.880 --> 00:47:22.880
it look like anyone you recognize?
Um? It took look a like a

674
00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:32.079
lot of people. I recognize that
maybe Felt, may not. I mean

675
00:47:32.199 --> 00:47:39.119
that that looks heavier than felt.
And just look at those aren't his shoes

676
00:47:39.199 --> 00:47:44.880
either? Okay? How about the
jacket fill on the leon the jackets that,

677
00:47:45.039 --> 00:47:49.280
yeah, okay, may be seen
Phil that lether jacket on recently?

678
00:47:50.199 --> 00:47:53.400
Um he where is it? Okay? And um, when you look at

679
00:47:53.440 --> 00:47:58.360
that picture there the first one he
said, it looks like Philip sept We

680
00:47:58.440 --> 00:48:00.960
just nope, which one in which
time? We're gonna look at the first

681
00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:06.400
one that he said it looks like
phil is a photo that is lifted as

682
00:48:06.639 --> 00:48:09.360
camera two six four, camera two
six four. It has a date on

683
00:48:09.400 --> 00:48:14.599
it at four fourteen o nine and
ten h six. It looks like forty

684
00:48:14.599 --> 00:48:17.960
four at five say. It's got
a little green dot and it's in it's

685
00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:24.119
encased in a sheet, protected sheet
protected correct. Second photo that I had

686
00:48:24.159 --> 00:48:30.159
you look at is a photo of
the best way to identify it is it

687
00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:36.920
has a sign that says tell you
says horo h a r you correct.

688
00:48:37.320 --> 00:48:39.800
The person getting on an escalator and
you said that's the one that looks like

689
00:48:39.840 --> 00:48:45.000
a lot of people said, correct. And the last photo that I actually

690
00:48:45.079 --> 00:48:49.599
look at his camera two six four
four fourteen o nine and it looks like

691
00:48:49.639 --> 00:48:52.679
it's just ten or six forty five
PM. Correct. And you stated that

692
00:48:52.719 --> 00:48:59.280
that looks like Phil nine rose a
fourteen to die was at last week today,

693
00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:06.679
Tuesday night. So you believe that
that person in his four number one

694
00:49:06.920 --> 00:49:10.880
looks just like phellows that? Correct? You can take it out of the

695
00:49:10.920 --> 00:49:17.519
sheet protective scifically lay that looks similar. But he does not have those shoes.

696
00:49:19.519 --> 00:49:25.000
And the black guy looks heavier.
That aren't jacket. He has a

697
00:49:25.079 --> 00:49:29.960
similar leather jacket. He does have
a leather jacket, but those aren't his

698
00:49:30.039 --> 00:49:37.239
shoes. He's all, what kind
of shoes those up? They just look

699
00:49:37.320 --> 00:49:42.039
like big black I don't know,
they don't look like shoes he has.

700
00:49:43.039 --> 00:49:46.960
I know, you know all the
shoes he wears New Balance Makers ninety nine.

701
00:49:47.440 --> 00:49:52.119
Time does you want to fair of
shoes like that that he just doesn't

702
00:49:52.159 --> 00:49:58.440
wear? Not that I know nothing
at all? Were out where that was

703
00:49:58.519 --> 00:50:00.679
though. Yeah, we'll get to
the And I just actually look at one

704
00:50:00.719 --> 00:50:04.960
other photo. This is a photo
outside it's camera two twenty two outside of

705
00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:10.159
the T station. Is that individual
a familiar too? It looks a little

706
00:50:10.159 --> 00:50:17.960
bit like him, not exactly.
Now he looks heavier, Okay? And

707
00:50:19.239 --> 00:50:23.000
is it if the photo was more
clear? Like if you this is obviously

708
00:50:23.039 --> 00:50:27.519
a photo that's taken off some type
of a digital image. The photo is

709
00:50:27.599 --> 00:50:31.440
clear. Do you think that might
help you? Ah? No, it

710
00:50:31.519 --> 00:50:36.440
wouldn't help you. Now, I
mean he looked that looks heavier than Bell.

711
00:50:36.519 --> 00:50:45.320
So I don't know. And I
just have one more. I'm gonna

712
00:50:45.320 --> 00:50:50.280
actually look at this one is dated
four, fourteen or nine and ten or

713
00:50:50.440 --> 00:50:54.480
four it's his camera twelve. I
just actually, everyone look at that photo.

714
00:51:05.840 --> 00:51:07.960
You you looked at the photo.
I noticed you kind of made the

715
00:51:09.039 --> 00:51:14.880
face. Yeah, well the hair
looks different, so I don't know.

716
00:51:15.840 --> 00:51:20.360
Um where was that again? Did
you say at a tea station? Well?

717
00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:22.400
One who was? The last one
was at a T station? So

718
00:51:22.519 --> 00:51:27.960
the last one was the last one
was inside the lobby of a of a

719
00:51:28.280 --> 00:51:34.280
hotel? Oh? Okay, Marryott? Yes? What which Marryott was?

720
00:51:34.400 --> 00:51:42.679
Ust? Okay? Squid? Have
you seen any of these forms? Have

721
00:51:42.800 --> 00:51:45.519
you watching the new was the last
couple of days at all? Have you

722
00:51:45.559 --> 00:51:47.400
read any of the Boston newspapers.
No, because I've been in New Jersey.

723
00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:53.039
Oh that the guy. My mom
actually told me. There's a guy

724
00:51:54.199 --> 00:52:02.320
you know going around and the hotel
right right. So what I'm asking you

725
00:52:02.559 --> 00:52:08.679
is is we're following the lead,
you know from the IP address in your

726
00:52:08.719 --> 00:52:13.920
apartment. Okay, they made a
date with an individual at a hotel.

727
00:52:15.559 --> 00:52:20.559
And then the first photo I showed
you is an individual at that hotel and

728
00:52:20.639 --> 00:52:22.920
showed up at that time that the
date was made. And he told me

729
00:52:22.960 --> 00:52:29.519
that it looks like Phil. Correct. If I showed you that picture on

730
00:52:29.639 --> 00:52:35.519
a digital image, it was somewhat
more clear. To that help you am?

731
00:52:35.599 --> 00:52:37.960
I? Okay, I'd be willing
to look at that on a computer

732
00:52:38.079 --> 00:52:43.079
and showed you on a divil with
digital image. I mean, so what

733
00:52:43.199 --> 00:52:49.159
does the massage therapist you have to
deal with? The guy people telling the

734
00:52:49.199 --> 00:52:53.039
women? Well, there's only been
the women killed. Okay, is I'm

735
00:52:53.039 --> 00:53:00.559
only one person killed? I know
it was a massage therapist. No,

736
00:53:00.719 --> 00:53:06.400
we didn't play that, said we. When we asked you what I asked

737
00:53:06.400 --> 00:53:09.920
you work as a tender. Mart
I had asked you about any you told

738
00:53:09.960 --> 00:53:13.599
me that you haven't got some crank
calls into your apartment. I asked you

739
00:53:13.639 --> 00:53:16.559
if any of those calls were either
threatening or sexual or anything else in nature,

740
00:53:16.599 --> 00:53:20.440
and you say that they were not
like that, that there was a

741
00:53:20.519 --> 00:53:23.760
present that needed to be mentally unstable, right, correct. And then I

742
00:53:23.880 --> 00:53:31.199
asked you if um uh, there
had been any calls relative to massage or

743
00:53:31.239 --> 00:53:34.280
anything like that. You said,
well, you know, yeah, there

744
00:53:34.320 --> 00:53:37.960
were a couple of calls that people
started asking for massage, which you know,

745
00:53:37.159 --> 00:53:42.679
it's kind of a strange call.
Uh yeah, yeah, and that

746
00:53:42.920 --> 00:53:47.119
and the nail thing, I mean, yeah, okay, And we then

747
00:53:47.239 --> 00:53:54.840
you asked us basically why you here. We told you that they uh an

748
00:53:54.920 --> 00:54:01.000
email email was sent from an IP
address in your apartment, okay, to

749
00:54:01.280 --> 00:54:07.119
set up an appointment with the massous
at a local hotel. And the time

750
00:54:07.199 --> 00:54:13.400
and time frame of that appointment coincides
with these surveillance photos of the individual.

751
00:54:13.599 --> 00:54:19.519
Okay. And here's that's that's something
that we'll get to the bottom, get

752
00:54:19.519 --> 00:54:22.480
to the bottom of, okay,
Okay, But you know, from this

753
00:54:22.679 --> 00:54:27.760
point, we'll show you some surveillance
photos and you believe it looks like Phil

754
00:54:27.840 --> 00:54:32.000
and photo next, the detectives in
Meghan would discuss the type of shoes and

755
00:54:32.119 --> 00:54:37.239
clothes that Philip owned in more detail. Megan seems to believe she knows Philip

756
00:54:37.480 --> 00:54:42.440
very well. When pressed, she
tells them that she speaks to him at

757
00:54:42.519 --> 00:54:45.960
least two times a day. She
also notes that he doesn't own a gun,

758
00:54:45.079 --> 00:54:47.719
and that the person they are showing
her in these photos, well,

759
00:54:47.840 --> 00:54:52.360
some of them just don't look like
Philip to her. Little does she know

760
00:54:52.559 --> 00:54:57.320
that this is her fiance and all
of the surveillance photos. Megan, at

761
00:54:57.400 --> 00:55:00.199
this point in the interview begins to
get nervous. She wants to know more

762
00:55:00.239 --> 00:55:06.840
about why she is there. You
ever seen Philip a firearm? No?

763
00:55:07.719 --> 00:55:10.079
Never, never? And if there
was a firearm India house, would you

764
00:55:10.119 --> 00:55:14.599
be aware of it? I would
at he said you didn't wanted to issue

765
00:55:14.679 --> 00:55:21.480
us Yeah, well, I mean
he's very open about everything, so he

766
00:55:21.559 --> 00:55:25.400
doesn't care, you know, searching
the apartment, so I know of everything

767
00:55:27.119 --> 00:55:29.960
that's going on. How about the
car? Would you be familiar with what's

768
00:55:29.960 --> 00:55:32.079
in the car and the trunk of
the car. What with what's in his

769
00:55:32.199 --> 00:55:36.679
car? Yeah? Because when he
picked me out from the train station,

770
00:55:36.760 --> 00:55:38.880
you know, put my luggage in
it. And today when we were doing

771
00:55:38.920 --> 00:55:43.400
and put our luggage in it.
I mean, I think I don't think

772
00:55:43.440 --> 00:55:47.760
there's much in there for allow you
to try now, okay, and no

773
00:55:47.920 --> 00:55:54.320
further questions. I mean, is
this Do you think this is a guy

774
00:55:54.440 --> 00:56:00.679
that's been in the hotels or is
there like a million you bought at because

775
00:56:00.800 --> 00:56:05.880
this is very worrisome, you know, I can't understanding concerned. I think

776
00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:08.400
I think you know. One of
the things that's most morrisome for us is

777
00:56:08.480 --> 00:56:15.840
that an online email was initiated from
an IP address in your apartment. The

778
00:56:15.920 --> 00:56:23.000
individual that we believed that showed up
to complete that online lass a date is

779
00:56:23.039 --> 00:56:25.880
the individual in the picture and the
first picture you looked at you thought he

780
00:56:25.920 --> 00:56:30.639
looked quite similar to Phil. Okay, and Maggie. So for us,

781
00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:34.559
I did this have to do with
demastus? Yeah? Shout what you're saying

782
00:56:34.599 --> 00:56:42.599
out And you've been with Phil for
a couple of years now and you're engaged,

783
00:56:42.840 --> 00:56:47.440
yes, and you love him?
Yes? Okay? Would you trying

784
00:56:47.440 --> 00:56:50.960
to protect him if he did something
wrong? Would you lie for him?

785
00:56:52.679 --> 00:56:54.079
I would not lie for him if
he did something like this, now,

786
00:56:54.119 --> 00:57:00.360
I wouldn't something like what like like
what you're telling me. If he's out

787
00:57:00.519 --> 00:57:05.280
killing people. I don't think actually
said that. I don't know what happened

788
00:57:05.280 --> 00:57:07.480
to the missus. Can you tell
me what happened to the missus? He's

789
00:57:07.559 --> 00:57:14.199
one of the institusative and robbed in
another instance to be guilt. Okay,

790
00:57:14.880 --> 00:57:20.119
okay, I just I would never
ever ever think he would ever do something

791
00:57:20.199 --> 00:57:27.360
like that. Every that's being honest, like I you know, he doesn't

792
00:57:27.400 --> 00:57:30.960
get angry often. He's not an
angry a person. He's a medical stupid

793
00:57:31.039 --> 00:57:38.880
you know here's and you know,
sometimes things happen where you know, the

794
00:57:39.239 --> 00:57:45.519
attention is not to harm anybody financial
gain and sometimes other things happen where you

795
00:57:45.599 --> 00:57:51.360
know. Now he complains about money
all the time that you know, we

796
00:57:51.480 --> 00:57:57.599
have no money. So he's not
gonna rob something. That's not how he's

797
00:57:57.599 --> 00:58:00.480
gonna go about getting money. He'll
go to the casino to try to win

798
00:58:00.559 --> 00:58:04.559
money. He's not there ross does
he win? What um? Sometimes?

799
00:58:05.239 --> 00:58:08.400
Does he lose? He does love
sometimes if he's lose, does we do

800
00:58:08.599 --> 00:58:13.920
home? If he keeps winning then
and the way casinos usually work as the

801
00:58:13.960 --> 00:58:16.000
author in the favor, but they
usually win more often than the player does.

802
00:58:16.079 --> 00:58:21.320
Corrects right right, right, he
doesn't I mean he if he wins,

803
00:58:21.400 --> 00:58:24.639
he doesn't win that much. But
if you ever had any if you

804
00:58:24.679 --> 00:58:30.559
would have to characterize how he plays. Does he beat the casino most of

805
00:58:30.599 --> 00:58:35.719
the time? Well, he breaks
even? He breaks even usually. I

806
00:58:35.800 --> 00:58:44.559
mean if he he'll win more than
most people. I think. But you

807
00:58:44.719 --> 00:58:47.320
mentioned his cell phone and some of
the bills that you have. Do you

808
00:58:47.400 --> 00:58:52.039
pay your own cell phone? Or
does he pain my parents? Your parents?

809
00:58:52.440 --> 00:58:55.920
How about his parents? Is in
any time as any of the services,

810
00:58:57.280 --> 00:59:00.360
any of his services even cut off
with you? Yeah? Yeah,

811
00:59:00.360 --> 00:59:04.960
Um, when I was home last
about a month ago. Um, the

812
00:59:05.119 --> 00:59:08.280
BlackBerry he has, he paid for
internet service on it, he wasn't getting

813
00:59:08.320 --> 00:59:12.920
internet service on it. So he
went to Verizon and I guess they fixed

814
00:59:12.960 --> 00:59:15.719
it. I don't know if they
completely fixed it. I think he's still

815
00:59:15.719 --> 00:59:20.360
but for like a month or two, he wasn't getting internet service on the

816
00:59:20.679 --> 00:59:24.599
on the Blackbird. At any time, have you used any type of you

817
00:59:24.679 --> 00:59:31.079
know phone cards or or you know
phones they did just five minutes for you

818
00:59:31.119 --> 00:59:35.239
know what they called like the minute
phones and any of these you know drug

819
00:59:35.280 --> 00:59:37.840
stores or anything like that. Have
you ever seen have you ever seen any

820
00:59:37.840 --> 00:59:44.159
of those? Now a time when
his BlackBerry was completely out of service now,

821
00:59:44.360 --> 00:59:47.280
just just like I said. When
I was home last month, he

822
00:59:47.440 --> 00:59:52.440
was having these problems where he wasn't
getting the emails. He wasn't he was

823
00:59:52.559 --> 00:59:57.440
paid for the internet service on the
BlackBerry end, he wasn't getting it.

824
00:59:57.599 --> 01:00:02.280
So he went to Brison twice.
Um, I think Brison fixed it.

825
01:00:02.400 --> 01:00:06.559
They said, if it keeps doing
this, you know, come back and

826
01:00:06.599 --> 01:00:08.440
they'll send them a new phone.
So I don't know what happens. That's

827
01:00:08.480 --> 01:00:15.360
when I went home. So Megan
then asks should she be afraid to leave

828
01:00:15.400 --> 01:00:22.079
the police station with Philip when and
if Philip is released? I have no

829
01:00:22.239 --> 01:00:28.719
further questions. Uh, no further
questions. Would you be willing to if

830
01:00:28.760 --> 01:00:31.760
we do have some other questions to
come back in for any sure? I

831
01:00:31.800 --> 01:00:37.000
mean, is there any reason for
me to be like scared to go home

832
01:00:37.039 --> 01:00:42.599
with this person might be outside at
this time. We're gonna make some decisions.

833
01:00:42.599 --> 01:00:45.599
We're gonna we're gonna actually we aren't
always going on outside this world.

834
01:00:45.679 --> 01:00:50.039
So like, I just do you
have any reason to fear him? No,

835
01:00:50.480 --> 01:00:53.400
not at all. But I'm just
you're worrying me. Well, I

836
01:00:53.480 --> 01:00:57.199
can see this is a very serious
business and you know, we don't need

837
01:00:57.239 --> 01:01:00.760
to worry or we don't ever love
you in anyway. Is pretty serious,

838
01:01:00.119 --> 01:01:06.079
and you know that's what we do. We investigate on the side too,

839
01:01:06.280 --> 01:01:09.519
right, I mean, are there
other people that ractie hotels that could have

840
01:01:09.639 --> 01:01:15.480
done that? So that's why we
have an ongoing active investigation. Okay,

841
01:01:16.960 --> 01:01:21.960
I know, I'm just wondering if
if he's one of two or one of

842
01:01:22.239 --> 01:01:25.119
you know, thirty. Well,
all I know is, you know,

843
01:01:25.320 --> 01:01:30.480
just following an investigation logically the way
that we do. You know, an

844
01:01:30.519 --> 01:01:36.679
online internet dates so to speak,
or appointment was made from a computer in

845
01:01:36.840 --> 01:01:42.719
your apartment at the same time that
an individual that resembles your fiance shows up

846
01:01:42.760 --> 01:01:45.320
at the hotel with a crime of
curd. Okay, was at the hotel

847
01:01:45.599 --> 01:01:51.519
the crime of curd Philips Surviving victims
would be brought in and asked to look

848
01:01:51.559 --> 01:01:55.840
at lineup photos. Without a doubt
or hesitation, these women picked Philip Markov's

849
01:01:55.880 --> 01:02:00.480
picture out as the man who attacks
them. This point, police would arrest

850
01:02:00.559 --> 01:02:07.039
and charge Philip Markov with robbery and
murder. When they would take pictures at

851
01:02:07.119 --> 01:02:09.760
his booking, they would note that
there was blood on Philip's loafers, that

852
01:02:09.920 --> 01:02:15.960
blood would turn out to be Julisa
Brisman's. When authorities would search Markov's apartment,

853
01:02:16.079 --> 01:02:20.360
they would find the gun that he
used to rob women in a hollowed

854
01:02:20.360 --> 01:02:24.119
out Gray's Anatomy of Human Body textbook. They would also find items belonging to

855
01:02:24.239 --> 01:02:29.280
victims hidden in his apartment, as
well as a bag of plastic zip ties.

856
01:02:30.320 --> 01:02:34.639
Investigators knew without a shred of doubt
that they had their man, and

857
01:02:34.800 --> 01:02:40.320
they stopped him before he harmed anyone
else. During his arraignment at the end

858
01:02:40.360 --> 01:02:44.840
of April of two thousand and nine, Philip would plead not guilty to his

859
01:02:45.039 --> 01:02:50.079
charges. A few days later,
after his arraignment, Philip would attempt to

860
01:02:50.199 --> 01:02:54.079
commit suicide. He was placed on
suicide watch for a time, but eventually

861
01:02:54.400 --> 01:02:59.760
believed to not pose a threat to
himself. After a while, Philip would

862
01:02:59.760 --> 01:03:02.840
tell his family to just forget about
him when they would visit him. According

863
01:03:02.880 --> 01:03:07.000
to his family, Philip seemed depressed. However, it is unclear if this

864
01:03:07.199 --> 01:03:12.280
was dug of the fact that he
actually felt remorse for his actions, or

865
01:03:12.440 --> 01:03:15.239
if he was just upset that he
had been caught. In the beginning,

866
01:03:15.440 --> 01:03:20.960
Meghan would stand by Philip and his
family she truly didn't believe that he was

867
01:03:21.039 --> 01:03:24.119
capable of the things that he was
accused of. However, as the evidence

868
01:03:24.239 --> 01:03:30.119
mounted and it looked more and more
likely as though he was guilty, Meghan

869
01:03:30.199 --> 01:03:34.199
had to make a decision. In
two thousand and nine, she would decide

870
01:03:34.199 --> 01:03:37.320
that it would be in both of
their best interests to end their relationship,

871
01:03:38.280 --> 01:03:43.119
and that she didn't plan on seeing
him for a long time after this visit,

872
01:03:43.440 --> 01:03:47.760
if ever again. The following day
after this conversation, Philip would attempt

873
01:03:47.960 --> 01:03:53.800
suicide for a second time. On
August fifteenth, two ten, what would

874
01:03:53.840 --> 01:03:59.880
have been the day after his first
wedding anniversary, Philip Markoff would commit sue

875
01:04:00.079 --> 01:04:04.159
side in his jail cell. Over
the course of his incarceration waiting for trial,

876
01:04:04.280 --> 01:04:08.360
Philip would fashion and a knife made
from a pen and a piece of

877
01:04:08.480 --> 01:04:13.519
metal. He would also gather toilet
paper and plastic trash bags. When he

878
01:04:13.639 --> 01:04:15.800
knew no one would check on him
for some time, Philip would slash his

879
01:04:15.920 --> 01:04:20.360
ankles, neck, and legs deep
enough to hit his arteries. He would

880
01:04:20.400 --> 01:04:25.159
wrap his wounds in the plastic bags, most likely to contain the blood,

881
01:04:25.239 --> 01:04:29.039
so that he would not be caught
right away. He would then swallow a

882
01:04:29.119 --> 01:04:32.800
wad of toilet paper before placing a
plastic bag over his head and then additionally

883
01:04:32.880 --> 01:04:39.280
wrapping gauze around the bag to suffocate
himself. When the guard's nocus Philip hadn't

884
01:04:39.280 --> 01:04:42.639
moved in a while, they went
in to check on him. When they

885
01:04:42.719 --> 01:04:45.119
lifted the blankets off of him,
it is said that he was completely covered

886
01:04:45.159 --> 01:04:48.840
in blood. On the wall of
his cell, he wrote Megan's name.

887
01:04:50.159 --> 01:04:56.000
Markov died behind bars Sunday morning after
an apparent suicide. The twenty four year

888
01:04:56.039 --> 01:05:00.599
old former Boston University medical student reportedly
was found in his cell with a bag

889
01:05:00.719 --> 01:05:03.039
over his head and a kind of
major artery while a waiting trial for the

890
01:05:03.119 --> 01:05:09.000
murder of Julissa Brisman, a woman
prosecutors say he met through the erotic services

891
01:05:09.039 --> 01:05:15.800
section of Craigslist. Philip Markov's suicide
robbed his victims and his victim's family of

892
01:05:15.960 --> 01:05:21.079
closure and possibly answers as to why
he committed these crimes. Philip Markoff seemed

893
01:05:21.119 --> 01:05:26.800
to only care about his own needs
and interests from the start of this story

894
01:05:27.119 --> 01:05:30.559
until the very end, while putting
on the mask that he wanted to help

895
01:05:30.639 --> 01:05:33.239
people and that he was a good
person. None of that proved to be

896
01:05:33.360 --> 01:05:45.639
true. He was a true Charlatan. Thank you for listening to this episode

897
01:05:45.679 --> 01:05:47.400
of The Apex and the Abyss.
If you would like to reach out to

898
01:05:47.480 --> 01:05:51.199
the show, please feel free to
write an email to Apex an Abyss at

899
01:05:51.280 --> 01:05:55.840
gmail dot com. You can also
find the show on Twitter, Instagram,

900
01:05:55.960 --> 01:06:00.480
and Facebook if you prefer to communicate
that way. You can also submit episode

901
01:06:00.559 --> 01:06:03.639
suggestions, as well as find links
to everything mentioned above in the show notes

902
01:06:03.840 --> 01:06:08.199
and at Apex and Abyss dot com, as well as a link to another

903
01:06:08.239 --> 01:06:12.320
show a co host called Monster Madness. If you'd like to support the show,

904
01:06:12.400 --> 01:06:14.960
you can do that in many ways. You can head on over to

905
01:06:15.039 --> 01:06:17.760
Apple Podcasts and submit a rating and
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906
01:06:17.840 --> 01:06:21.599
few moments of your time and it
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907
01:06:21.639 --> 01:06:27.679
a Patreon at Patreon dot com or
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908
01:06:28.000 --> 01:06:30.480
All the links will be provided in
the show notes. Again, thank you

909
01:06:30.599 --> 01:06:34.480
so much for listening to the show
and for your support in telling these stories.

910
01:06:36.280 --> 01:06:38.239
Until next time,