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Plans are out and tax Days coming
up on Monday. And when I look

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at polling as to what the American
people believe about who pays taxes, it

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is completely different than reality. Of
course, reality and politics often doesn't matter.

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What matters is perception. And I
saw a Gallup poll about six years

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ago, and I caught some of
it, and the Gallup poll said American

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people said the top one percent pay
six percent of the taxes, the top

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ten percent of way journers pay twenty
six percent of the taxes, and the

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rest are born by middle class Americans. Now, nothing could be further from

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the truth. It is simply not
the facts, because facts are available,

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in fact, they're available every year, but the message often does not get

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out. Joining you and I now
from the Cato Institute, a great organization

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is Adam Michelle and Adam Michelle,
Welcome to the Bill Cunningham Show. First

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of all, can you tell the
American people the mission of the Cato Institute

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to put it in perspective? Ah? Yeah, Well, thanks for having

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me on here at the k Institute, where a nonpartisan research organization and forming

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policy makers toward libertarian policies of smaller
government, more free markets lower taxes.

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In the case of my work,
where we work with Congress and inform the

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public sort of about the reality exact
exactly what you were talking about, what

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actually is going on rather than what
the perception is. Let's break it down.

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We got to talk about the tax
plan. Joe Biden, who's an

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absent socialist, wants to say that
we need to raise taxes on companies corporations

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as if they don't pass on those
expenses to consumers. But just in a

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rough sense, every year, break
down the tax brackets as far as who

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pays taxes, the top one percent, the top ten, fifty percent.

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Tell the American people the truth.
Yeah, so the top one percent of

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income earners pay it out already six
percent of all income taxes. If you

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expand that down to the top ten
percent, the top ten percent of income

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owners pay about seventy six percent of
all income taxes. The you and the

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United States actually has one of the
most progressive tax systems in the developed world,

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despite what the President or a lot
of other folks would have you believe.

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We kind of went over that quickly. I want that to sync in

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and what concrete then I wanted to
harden the top one percent, which is

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about is that about three hundred and
seventy five thousand dollars in income four hundred

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thousand is out about that number.
Yeah, so I think it might be

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a bit higher than that now,
but that's in the ballpark. So if

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you make four hundred thousand dollars or
more, the top one percent pay forty

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six percent of the income tax.
The top ten percent, which would be

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something the range of one hundred and
seventy five k a year, pay seventy

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six percent of the state income tax. And as far as the top fifty

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percent of the bottom fifty percent,
I think that number breaks down to about

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eighty thousand dollars. For those who
make above eighty thousand dollars and you're in

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the top fifty percent, what percent
of the income tax are paid by those

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workers? The top fifty percent pay
almost all of the taxes. It's something

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like ninety ninety eight percent of the
taxes are paid by the top fifty percent

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of income taxes are paid by a
top fifty percent. You have a column

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up about paying your fair share.
One of the great bumper stickers is the

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rich have got to pay their fair
share. When you hear that Adam Michelle

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or the Cato Institute. Do the
rich already pay their fair share? How

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much more can you pay? It
certainly seems that way to me. A

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President Biden often crocked out the statistic
that the billionaires of the richest people in

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the United States pay an average tax
rate of eight percent. If you actually

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go to the data released by his
Treasury Department every year, you'll see that

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the highest earning point zero one percent
of income earners in the United States actually

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pay an all in estimated average tax
rate of well above thirty percent. And

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that's sort of all inclusive a payroll
income and the rest of it. And

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if you go down the income distribution, that tax average tax rate declined until

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you actually get negative average tax rates
for the lowest income Americans, again showing

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how incredibly progressive to the United States
federal income taxes. It's fair to say

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we have what liberal democrats seek,
which is high income americans pay the great

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majority. Why is it not readily
acceptable to average Americans as to those facts?

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Because you can take these numbers,
The top one percent pay forty six

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percent, the top ten percent pay
seventy six percent, the top fifty percent

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pay ninety nine percent of the taxes, but people don't believe that right at

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all. Yeah, I think a
lot of that is because the political class

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isn't honest with them. It isn't
when we sort of cross out these statistics

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that are just simply not based in
reality. I think your point that we

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have the tax system a lot of
Democrats want is really apt and they but

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there's a flip side of that orul
they point to the way that Europe does

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their taxing. They want big government, big social services, and higher taxes

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than we have, like a lot
of European countries do. The way that

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those countries pay for that big government
is actually higher taxes on poor people and

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the middle class to evalue added tax
for much higher income tax rates that hit

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much lower down the income distribution.
And so the reality of where where democrats

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want us to go is not higher
taxes on the wealthy, but instead higher

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taxes on middle class. Americans and
so called billionaires generally have no income which

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is a subject to the income tax
rates. They have capital gains, and

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capital gains rates are lower than the
income tax tables. And billionaires of all

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the rich, CPAs and accountants money
can buy to find loopholes things of that

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character that average Americans do not have
now. In the State of Union address

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about a month ago that Biden stumbled
through horribly, he talked about making corporations

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and businesses in America pay quote their
fair share, and that he wants to

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grossly increase the tax rates paid by
corporations, by companies, etc. Explain

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to the American people, Adam Michelle, why that is a bad idea.

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So the United States competes for businesses, for global talent, for investments,

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for jobs with other countries all around
the world. Businesses can quite easily move.

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They did this a lot before the
twenty seventeen Tact, that they were

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inverting their head courters to Europe.
So when you raise the business income tax,

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the corporate income tax above the sort
of art average of our largest trading

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partners, you start losing investment and
jobs and businesses. And so Biden wants

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to raise our corporate income tax rate
back up, so we'd have about the

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second highest rate in the developed world, putting us back into that world.

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Pre twenty seventeen, when businesses we
couldn't leave the United States fast enough.

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So by doing so, companies would
leave the America and the United States and

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go to Mexico, go to Taiwan, go to the Philippines or whatever.

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And secondly, isn't it true that
if companies corporation's income tax bill goes up,

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do they increase the cost of goods
and services to sell to the public,

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which means inflation would be in a
runaway mode. So most of the

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corporate income taxes actually passed on to
workers in the form of lower wages.

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It does get passed on to some
investors and does go into higher prices,

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but most of it actually shows up
in a way of hurting workers, both

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in the form of slower wage growth
and fewer jobs. And so when you

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cut the corporate income tax rate,
it's actually a benefit to working Americans here

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in the United States. And that's
what we saw when it was cut in

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twenty seventeen, and what I would
expect to see the reverse of if we

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were to raise it back up to
sort of internationally high levels. And you

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have a posting about energy subsidies win
the spending madness at twenty twenty four some

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of your I'm going to share that
with the American people, But can you

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talk about what's happening in California with
their governor Kevin Newsom, who is perceived

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to be the President in waiting because
nobody with any common sense whatever thing that

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Kamala Harris could be the president.
But nonetheless he wanted to give more money

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to low income workers by taking the
minimum wage from twelve bucks an hour to

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twenty bucks an hour, and then
it goes up from there. And in

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fact, the twenty bucks an hour
to a McDonald's worker does not take into

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account the taxes that worker is liable
to have the employer spend on like unemployment,

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workers compensation, all that stuff.
So the twenty bucks an hour is

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even a lower. Why is it
a bad idea for government mandates to tell

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the fast food workers, We're going
to pay you a lot more money.

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And isn't that a good thing?
Yeah? Well, when you raise the

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minimum wage, especially as high and
as quickly as they have in California,

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it leads to additional automation and the
pushing out of those sort of starter jobs

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that help you get that first rung
on the ladder to then earn higher wages

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in the future. So often what
we've seen after these types of large minimum

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wage taxing large minimum wage increases is
that it hurts actually the people, the

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exact same people that you're ostensibly trying
to help. And so instead, I

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think we should be focusing on pro
growth policies that allow businesses to expand and

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hire more people, creating additional opportunities
for those workers in lighting markets push wages

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up rather than government mandates. You
know, it's a perfect example of the

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law of unintended consequences. The intent
was to put more money into pockets of

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low wage workers. In reality it
caused them to be unemployed, and more

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ais being used and production methods are
being done by machines of one type or

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another, and therefore those it intends
to help it hurts. Secondly, I

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see that the Inflation Reduction Act Whenever, which is passed two years ago by

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only Democratic votes, and you have
a posting energy subsidies win spending Madness of

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twenty twenty four. The results from
the spending Madness suggest that the highest priority

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budget cut for Congress is the vast
corporate welfare unleashed by the IRA is favored

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by the Inflation Reduction Act. And
you note that the economy was flooded with

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at least one trillion dollars and more
spending and narrow tax breaks for corporation across

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many industries. Why are the energy
subsidies when we think about cylindro et cetera.

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Why is that a terrible idea?
And why do the Inflation Reduction Act

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actually increase inflation? Yeah, the
name of the bill is perhaps the most

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laughable part of this whole thing.
It was originally supposed to include about just

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a couple hundred billion dollars of tax
credits I shouldn't say just, but tax

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credits for these types of preferenced energy
and types of energy. The cost is

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now balloon to well over a trillion
dollars, likely one point eight trillion dollars

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over ten years. Some of these
things are ultimately made permanent. So this

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is one just additional inflationary spending sort
of going out going out the door.

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But two, it makes energy markets
less efficient. It's Washington choosing the type

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of car that you're going to drive
and the type of where your energy gets

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to, rather than the market and
in consumer demand choosing those sort of the

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cars and the energy that is most
sustainable for the economy. And so it's

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just another form of central planning industrial
policy out of Washington. All right,

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let's get onto the issue of borrowing
about one trillion dollars every one hundred days.

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If you take and you know the
numbers, if you take Social Security,

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Medicare, medicaid, if you take
interest on the national debt, federal

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retirement programs, and the defense budget, which those items are really never cut.

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In fact, they have to go
up in a sense, that's about

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eighty percent of the budget. And
so how do you get to a balanced

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budget when you have are going to
add about twenty trillion dollars to the national

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debt over the next ten years,
and we're talking twenty thirty four, we're

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going to have accumulate national debt in
the range of fifty five trillion dollars fifty

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five trillion dollars, which is completely
under sustainable, that is Banana Republic.

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How do you get to a balanced
budget when you have over eighty percent of

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the budget is to areas that are
sacred cows. You know the answers.

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You can't have sacred cows. Everything
needs to be on the table, and

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if it's not, then we're going
to continue to sort of spiral out of

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control. So if you take those
mandatory spending items Medicare, Medicaid, social

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Security, and interest on the deck, leaving defense spending off to the side.

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Just those pieces will will will be
larger than all the projected tax revenue

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coming in the door in just a
couple of years. And so that tells

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me that sort of spending growth is
the problem, and we have to reform

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every single one of those things you
mentioned. Otherwise, taxes are going to

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have to go up on middle class
Americans and that will be that will ultimately

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be painful. To go back to
your first point, I want to make

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this a parent to the American people. The top one percent pay forty six

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percent, But what percent of total
income in the country does the top one

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percent earn. They earn about twenty
six percent of the total income, and

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they pay forty six percent of all
taxes. So that sort of gets again

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to this point of the wealthier paying
much more than the share of the income

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they're earning, and more than their
fair share by that metric. So the

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increased taxes that must be increased in
the middle class, and that's a problem.

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Right. Let's talk about if I
would have you on with me in

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five, six, seven years,
from now, let's get out the crystal

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ball. Let's say Joe Biden slash
slash Kamala Harris win November the fifth,

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and let's say the Democrats take over
the House and they keep they keep the

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Senate, and they go back into
another inflation Reduction Act mode and continue to

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gallop federal spending out of control.
How can you determine when the debt crisis

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comes? And secondly, Adam Michelle, what will that look like and how

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will that impact average Americans face.
We've got to get a handle on that.

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Yeah, well that's the the trillions
of dollars. That's the trillion dollar

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question is when when the when that
true fiscal crisis hits. And I wish

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I knew, there's no one really
knows when that tipping point is. But

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we can't continue to have a two
trillion dollar gap between the revenue that comes

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in the door and the spending that
goes out the door. Eventually something has

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to break and uh and and that
will be It's going to be painful.

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It will look like higher inflation,
it will look like dramatic, uh necessary

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cuts to to to government spending.
It will also into probably entail higher taxes,

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on not just those earning over four
hundred thousand dollars a year, but

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every single American. There'll be slower
economic growth and and a lot of pain.

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And so that's why making those reforms
of the budget now is so important.

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The sooner we start these conversations and
actually start making reforms, the easier

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it ultimately will be all right.
Once again, Cato Institute, c Ato,

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Cato Institute. I encourage the American
people at Target the website, lots

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of good stuff there. This is
the most predictive financial crisis ever to strike

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any country. I've been talking about
this for the last ten to fifteen years,

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and the next five to ten years
will be utterly ridiculous. When it

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comes to federal spending, I sense
that Joe Biden slash Kamala Hair slash Gavin

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00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:37.600
Newsom has no clue, no desire
to cut federal spending at all. They

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want to increase taxes. We went
over who pays the taxes, and that's

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impossible to cut any more muscle out
of the body of those who have high

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incomes. And once again, Adam
Michelle, thank you for coming on the

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Bill Cunningham Show. And Adam you're
a great American. Thanks for having me

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00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:55.679
on. It was a pleasure.
God bless America. I let's continue with

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00:16:55.759 --> 00:16:59.080
more. The facts will set you
free. Those are the facts, and

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00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:02.919
what will the American people do?
Bill cunning and the Grand American with you

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00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:10.000
every day on news radio seven hundred
WLW. Meanwhile, in the untended forest,

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00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:14.000
little red riding Hood is heading to
the Three Pigs Place. That's right,

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00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:18.400
the youngest one has a cute little
tail. Aren't you supposed to visit

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00:17:18.440 --> 00:17:22.119
your grandmother? You had a falling
out. I want to listen to Eddie

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00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:26.960
and Rocky, and all she wants
is to listen to Metallica. I'm stunned.

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00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:30.720
How many times can you listen to
Enter Sandman? Well? Pigs like

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00:17:30.920 --> 00:17:34.880
Eddie and Rocky. Let's just say
they listen whole hat Eddie and Rocky This

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00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:41.720
afternoon three on seven hundred WLW.
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the