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Hello, and welcome back to another
edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm

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Sam angel N, a staff editor
at The Federalist Don't Forget. You can

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email any comments or questions for the
show to radio at the Federalist dot com,

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follow us on Twitter at fdr LST, and make sure to subscribe wherever

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you download your podcast as well.
Today I am joined by Jake Denton,

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a research associate in the Tech Policy
Center at the Heritage Foundation. I hope

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you guys enjoyed the show. So
last time we try to record this there

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were some technical difficulties, so we're
doing it again. Jake Denton, welcome

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back. How are you doing doing
great? Thanks for having me, no

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problem, Thanks for coming. So
you have a recent piece out at the

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Heritage Foundation titled the Tech Trajectory,
and you break down and how technological saturation

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affects childhood psychology, how people develop
and interact with the real world. Can

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you tell us a bit about that? Yeah, you know, so this

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piece I wrote with a colleague of
mine, Brenda Hafera, and it's essentially

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about the addiction ladder, going from
kind of that six month old who gets

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the iPad for the first time to
the you know, grown adult who's depending

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on it for work and for pleasure, or something like a dating app,

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and so you know, what does
it look like throughout that trajectory, what

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are the stages of addiction? And
you know what we essentially laid out in

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the piece is that, you know, even the most harmless application, something

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like angry birds or ATHLETs teaching the
child and outphabet is ultimately what leads you

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to those unhealthy practices down the road, whether it be abusing social media,

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something has like a social crutch.
You're at a bar, you don't want

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to talk to some when you look
at the social media. That's all downstream

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of that first exposure to the device. And it's kind of manifested in very

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interesting ways in terms of our society, where these pieces of technology are supposed

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bring us closer together, but we've
never been further apart. You know,

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it was supposed to make life easier, but you know, many people are

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very depressed. Suicide's gone up.
You know, kids are all having eating

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disorders and psychological issues, and we
act as though these came out of thin

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air, but it's very obvious that
it's correlated to our use of these devices

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in a very unhealthy manner. So
tech isn't going away though, Like it's

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just going to keep becoming more and
more integrated into every aspect of our life.

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So how do we get around that. Is there a way to facilitate

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healthy psychological growth in a technologically saturated
world? I don't know if there's a

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way to get around it, but
there's a way to avoid it, right,

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So, like it is a part
of the experience, and I think

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it's ingrained now in our technological kind
of environment. These apps aren't going to

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fundamentally be redesigned. They're not going
to change their color schemes, they're not

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going to kind of edit the sounds
that you hear, the haptic virations,

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like all these things are set in
stone. But you could change the way

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that you use these devices to be
healthier. And we can do things like

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what you see in Utah right now
with a potential bill that's going to impose

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a curfew on kids use of social
media, where you know, around bed

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time you can't log into Instagram,
and like, there are ways in which

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we can try to avoid these negative
outcomes, and you know they are avoidable.

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I think is the big thing here
is there's a lot of kind of

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dumerism around this stuff, and that
you know, we're just headed towards cyberpunk

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and things are going to be horrible
and we can't correct course, but we

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absolutely can. You know, a
lot of this comes from the tech companies.

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They don't want you to think that
things can change. But it's pretty

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much as simple as putting a goal
or an outcome on a piece of paper

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and making them do it right.
That's why we have Congress and all the

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time. Yeah, all the tech
exists to make those changes and accommodate for

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that preferred outcome. So this into
something like the bedtime, screen time,

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whatever cut off. What regulation or
legislation do you think it help get through

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this issue? So one of the
big things are they just these like general

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child safety kind of pieces of legislation. Cosa is supposedly going to maybe here

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a vote here very shortly, and
you know, tech would make you think

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that this is the end of tech. You know, it's the typical you

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know, boy who cried Wolf scenario
where you know, if Costa fassays,

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the whole world will burn down.
But really, Coast is a very modest

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proposal. It's just putting stricter baseline
settings for kids making social media platforms.

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Essentially, if you dumb it down
all the way instead of you know,

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these loose settings that allow you know, you and I to make an account

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and you know, run wild on
social media, they start strict and the

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parent in theory can then scale them
outward as they grow, and eventually they

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unlocks the full scope of settings and
they can use it just like you or

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I. Starting out in a more
healthy, controlled environment and warming them up

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to how to use this tech is
so much better than just handing them the

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device and saying, like, see
where it takes you. They have to

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be guided. I don't think we
can just continue to allow kids to explore

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the Internet without a nap, right. I think there needs to be a

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shepherd. There needs to be red
lines, and we have to make sure

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that they just don't wander off the
trail, because that's how you end up

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with the kid going on TikTok and
seeing the strangling challenge or the challenge as

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yet yeah, like the Superhero challenge, jump from a tense story building and

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see if you can fly? Like
that's what the kids are watching and it's

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resulting in bodily harm, death,
depression, and we act as though it's

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like just a natural state of the
Internet. They're going to see this content

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and they're going to their lives are
going to be horrible, and you know

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there's no undue button. Well,
please just avoid it from the beginning with

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these types of measures and so give
them a controlled environment. I think it's

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probably like the legislative mandate, like
don't have them just go crazy, right.

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I feel like to a certain extent, the Internet was always going to

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be rather at its inception, the
Internet was supposed to be more of a

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wild West type institution, but that
clearly didn't last for long. Yeah,

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you know, it's funny. I
think there's still some like sense amongst people

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that the internet's the wild West.
There's certainly places where it is. Well.

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I think it's that feeling. That
sense is because of the horrific things

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that we consume, but it's all
on purpose, Like it's not the wild

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West. It's controlled, it's been
conquered, and they're feeding you there.

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You know. Preferred message, whether
that be like state propaganda or whether it

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just be deprave pop cultural kind of
short form videos like on tik shok,

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like it isn't the wild West anymore. There are leaders, there are people

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who are deciding what you consume,
and they're just choosing to give you horrible

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things. And so all of the
negative of the wild West still exist without

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any of the prim fits. Right, there's nowhere to escape, there's no

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adventure, there's no gold too much
exactly. Yeah, So I think in

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anyways we got the worst of both
deals, and that defines like our current

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digital environment. So what do we
do with TikTok then? Because it's the

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most popular social media app in the
world. It seems like Congress is still

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you know, waffling on what to
do with it. It seems like it's

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going to be around for many,
many years before we actually take any action.

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So what should we do? Yeah, you know, and that can

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almost all be credited to their lobbying
effort and the way that this is very

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extensive and aggressive, and the way
that the CCP really just has a stranglehold

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on our government. You know,
even floating something like a TikTok band nearly

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like flip seats, right, because
you're just doing all these spends and these

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uh that's insane, almost lushing someone
else because of TikTok. Yeah, like

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it's crazy you're willing to question whether
or not this app is actually good for

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the country. So we're going to
make sure that you don't come back to

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Washington. And you know, TikTok's
not alone in that this is something that

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happens across the board. But the
fact that it's a Chinese own company and

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it's a platform that could shape our
election based off of the content they send

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and also based off of their lobbying
spends, and there's no debate at this

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point, like it's obviously a national
security risk, and it's obviously causing massive

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impact on the minds of our children, and we're just sitting here is like,

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Okay, we need one more smoking
gun to warrant intervention. We need

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five more dead kids before we decide
that this is really an issue. We

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had everything we needed to justify a
complete and total ban of not just TikTok

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but by dance operations as a whole
in the United States nearly two years ago.

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Yet here we are it's still operational. And oh yeah, it's not

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just TikTok anymore. They're building fulfillment
centers where they're going to be buying giant

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parcels of land, just like the
farmland issue. But now they're going to

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have massive logistics center that will almost
certainly host trucking units just like Amazon,

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to allow for them to you know, ship on their own mainland United States,

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collecting all sorts of consumer data data
on our roads or infrastructure. Not

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what I would like to see from
a country we might go to war with,

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exactly right. It's like, why
would we, in like any situation,

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think this is okay? And then
look at what they're doing and just

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the consumer market as well. They're
adding a Spotify competitor, so they're going

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to do music streaming and they'll certainly
undercut Spotify and Apple Music. And then

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they're also adding in a you know, text microblogging type feature as well to

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go after Twitter. And it's like, meanwhile, you know, Elon's building

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X in this everything app. TikTok's
like quietly doing it on their own too,

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and they have a way bigger user
base. And so how this unfolds

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there's really no telling, but it's
inexcusable. Just sit on your hands any

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longer with us. So what do
you think about the X situation? Personally?

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I think it's one of the dumbest
marketing gutnicks I've ever seen. You

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took a gold bar and turned it
into on, So it makes no sense

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to me. Yeah, you know, I think there's this temptation to like

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make everything black and white, like
it's a black rock or blackstone, right,

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you see everyone there's a great graphically
those around Twitter all the times of

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the legacy textile brands, Berberi,
Gucci, whatever, the minimalist stuff.

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Yeah, and how like we went
from this grand elegant branding to just brutalist,

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horrible modern branding, and you know, X kind of fell for that

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trap, and so I think it's
important to like critique the branding and like

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we don't want all of our things
to be ugly and modern. Like we

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could still have the blue app and
everyone will be fine. But like,

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fundamentally it's probably in that positive in
terms of like the ideological foundation of this

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new venture, something that's going to
operate independently in theory of these like legacy

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organizations, whether it be in finance
or in tech an environment maybe where like

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free speech can actually exist on the
Internet and you know, they're not pressured

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by advertisers or special interests. Like
the SPLC. You know, they could

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just moderate content how they see fit, which is closer to what the American

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public actually wants. And then you
know, on the financial side, So

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it's coming to a time where Elon, you know, a former co founder

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of PayPal, is watching one of
his creations turn into another weapon of the

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regime. You know, de banking
is running rampant. PayPal just like quietly

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changes their terms of service a few
months ago, and it's like, we're

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gonna enforce content moderation. We're gonna
find you from your own personal yeah if

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you say a mean word. And
it's like, okay, where does this

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end? Well, hopefully it ends
with Elon, you know, building a

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parallel infrastructure where you get banned on
PayPal, they empty your account. Maybe

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you can go to x and have
that peer to peer kind of financial system

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alternative, and you know, maybe
there's a video platform that doesn't fall under

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YouTube suppression. It's like there's a
lot of promising things coming from this transition,

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and you know, separated from the
ugly because it can be tight.

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So I think, you know,
I'm generally optimistic about what Elon's up to.

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It's still way too early to tell
it. It's like, it's crazy

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for a lot of people to realize
this. We're not really even at a

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year yet of Elan owning Twitter.
It's been a decade. Yeah, you

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know this. The conversation of purchasing
started early, but his changes really didn't

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start taking place until just you know, a handful of months ago, when

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the personnel changed and those elements,
and so it's very early stages and all

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signs point to it being a positive. So it's just important that he doesn't

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stray off course or get distracted by
another shiny object and app on the sidelines

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you could go after, but generally
speaking, way better than what we had

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with Twitter. So I'm enthused by
the direction that that Elan's taken it.

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The WATCHDOGO on Wall Street podcast with
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185
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Watchdot on Wall Street podcast with Chris
Markowski on Apple, Spotify or wherever you

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get your podcast. No, totally, I remain pretty skeptical, though.

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I feel like there's always going to
be just because the nature of tech and

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the people who are drawn to work
in Silicon Valley. I feel there's always

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going to be that you know,
managerial class hold out that's just trying to

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knife them anytimes. Anytime you get
leaves to go work on the rockets.

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But you know, I don't know
the guy to go to the rockets.

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So at the end of the day, I trust the people who are far

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smarter than me. You know,
there is like no world in which we

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have like a reconstruction of Silicon Valley, right like this, this class of

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coders they went through that indoctrination class
that we all went through at university too,

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and watched our peers just like go
off the rails. They all went

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through that same thing. Now instead
of working on Wall Street or instead of

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working you know, in DC,
they went to Silicon Valley, which is

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an even kind of coopier environment where
like, even if you're not involved in

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the working world, like the politics
is everywhere, it's very off the rails,

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and you know, you're in San
Francisco walking, you'd think that you

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like, it'd become as far right
as possible, but it just seems to

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really hypnotize a lot of these people. And I mentioned a big paycheck goes

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a lot of way. It goes
a lot of the way to like de

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radicalize you. I think, so
right, It's like if you're living in

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the penthouse while everyone dies on the
street from fed all overdoses, like you're

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high enough up where you don't smell
the horrors of the real world, but

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everything's still burning below you. So
you hope that one day the flames get

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high enough where they decide to put
it out. But all signs point to

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this being a long term problem,
and it's important not to get optimistic about

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this. Like fantasy scenario where we
red pill a bunch of coders and come

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to Silicon Valley to save us.
The real fix is the rare one in

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a million where a billionaire decides he
wants to stand for something and fix it.

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And then the more plausible realistic one
is having Congress do their job and

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not let you know, a bunch
of twenty somethings d platform every conservative on

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the internet or to shadow band,
right. So uh, it's you know,

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it's kind of the realistic part of
the situation where unless Congress gets serious

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about this, it's going to get
worse. And so we can't get sucked

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into the fantasy land like save your
scenario because Elon is one guy, and

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like you know, you look at
the bench, there's not a whole lot

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of other people that are going to
get into the game and change things up.

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So we have momentum. Congress now
is an opportunity to capitalize on it.

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And you know, it's great that
we have X. X is now

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a model your platform should behave similar
to X. You know, make your

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platform the public town the digital town
square. And I think that is the

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model, and we know it can
be executed like it used to be this

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argument of well we would do that
change but it's just not possible. We'll

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look at X like going to gain
so now you have to do it too,

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and that's hopefully where we start to
take things. But who's to tell

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what you know, this next election
cycle is almost primed to be defined by

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technology, right. It's like it's
true ai X all these different first one

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yeah, and so like you're going
to campaign entirely online. It's going to

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bring in a new class of younger
people who get the platforms and tech policy

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you know, in just a few
congresses is going to look radically different.

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We're going to you know, evolve
a lot as these kind of older members

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get replaced by younger members who are
more warm to these pieces of technology.

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And it brings you a little bit
of optimism and a whole lot of fear

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because you know, if you got
to Washington using the tech, are you

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going to be incentivized to kind of
crack down on it and fix it question?

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There's it's a tech policy is a
very interesting space because every day could

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take a different direction. So do
you think anti trust law or reinterpretation of

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it or just applying it to new
situations could help alleviate a lot of the

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things. I think it's really a
no brainer, And honestly, the difficulty

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right now is just informing people of
like the dynamic of Silicon Valley. There's

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a lot of pushback on breaking up
big tech because of this hypothetical where we

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handicap innovation. You know, if
you break up Amazon, who's going to

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deliver my package overnight? Or you
know, if you break up Google,

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where's the next YouTube? And I
understand where it comes from, but it's

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just very out of touch. You're
applying the kind of concepts of the physical

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world to this digital landscape. And
the reality is you look at a company

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like Google, when was the last
time they created something right? Like almost

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all of their consumer products that have
reached market or acquisitions, they didn't make

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YouTube, they didn't make Google pronos
right like these were purchases. They went

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to another company that was doing something
cool and made it their own, and

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it just basically entrenches them in our
way of life. And you know,

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you look at Facebook and you know
they're going really heavy in this kind of

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like metaverse vr sphere, which seems
very unlikely to succeed, but hypothetically,

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you know, they acquire that one
workout company where you know, you can

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do your workouts in the metaverse,
and maybe they get a deal with a

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business company like a business service provider
where your meetings are done in the metaverse.

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Suddenly they've entrenched themselves in this like
a whole other pillar of our society

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that's like increasingly digitizing. And what
the argument is like, we just have

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to wait for the next person to
come along and unseat that. It's it's

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possible, and so it's kind of
just waking them up to like the realities

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of the situation. And you know, there isn't this other solution to it

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truly is just antitrust or accepting the
horrors of like four companies running the entire

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country. And we already see how
that's going. It's not something we any

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of us really want to live in. So you just have to hope that

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they start to understand that the digital
world isn't the physical world. And you

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can't just use the legislation or the
laws from fifty sixty seventy years ago and

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apply them to tech that didn't exist. You have to modernize. And that's

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really all we're asking. And it's
not like we're trying to get them to

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bend the entire system. It's like, understand the environment that we find ourselves

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in now and adapt, you know, step up to the plate and do

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something for the American people. So
I mean, for what it's worth,

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you know, monopolies kind of seemed
to be the trarectory of history, Like

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that's just kind of how the world
has been. Totally agree that it's not

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good. But I'm very curious as
to whether or not there will be the

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how do you activate that political will
to wake people up to it. If

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people are about to lose their elections
because of TikTok, who's to say that

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Amazon wie step in and bludgeon them. And you know, that is the

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exact same situation we find ourselves in. Anytime you try and radically change tech

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or even just put a ripple in
that Silicon Valley kind of cesspit, you

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have crazy spends and all these congressional
districts. You know, around October November

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of last year, the Merger filing
theme Modernization Act was getting a little bit

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of traction. Sounds very complex,
It would sound like some radical blow up

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to antitrust law. It really just
increased the merger fees for you know,

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multi billion dollars mergers, this like
Microsoft Activision type dynamic. And you saw

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just tens of millions of dollars getting
spent in critical districts like do not vote

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on this modernization of antitrust law because
it will destroy innovation and kill your favorite

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company, China will take us over. And it worked, you know,

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it was that measure was something that
almost every single elected Republican has put in

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their stump speech at sometime right that
I'm going to get to Washington and hold

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big tech accountable. That's holding big
Tech accountable, it's making them pay for

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these multibillion dollar mergers. Yet we
got roughly like thirty nine Republicans to vote

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in favor of it, and it
ultimately, you know, was only put

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through due to the Omnibus bill.
It wasn't even passed as a standalone piece

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of legislation. And if you can't
do that, what are you going to

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be able to do? Right?
And so it's all kind of goes back

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to like big business and this like
interest in shaping our legislative trajectory. And

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the American people have to realize that
there's something very wrong about a company that's

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based in Menlo Park, that has
offices in uh, you know, every

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00:21:49,279 --> 00:21:56,400
major country, going to Iowa or
Ohio and spending five million plus dollars to

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influence the outcome of their election.
Like what business as this tech company run

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00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:06,799
by a bunch of crazy people have
in the way that Ohio is represented in

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Washington, and it should make people
sick that that process is being compromised by

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these people who not only have no
investment in their community, fundamentally hate what

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00:22:18,279 --> 00:22:23,039
that community stands for. You know, they would be more than happy to

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bulldoze that entire district and turn it
into a parking lot or favillas for illegal

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immigrants. And yet we just let
it keep going and we let it work.

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I think more concerning, right,
like, we actually fall for the

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advertisement it plays on the TV,
and we're like, we're not immune to

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propaganda. We call the office,
right, well, please don't. We

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don't want China to be the tech
overlord. And it's like we have to

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we have to also, we have
to reject that spend, We have to

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reject that propaganda. And then also
just snap out of this trance that like

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things can't get better, because the
minute we actually have probably pressure here in

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Washington and we actually get this America
first public policy that shape silicon value in

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00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:07,599
a meaningful way that's in service of
the American people, things get better.

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So I think, you know,
be optimistic about the way things could go

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00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:18,200
and be willing to fight for it. So let's draw down into this China

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00:23:18,279 --> 00:23:23,079
tech hegemony. Do you think that
if we know trust bust so to speak,

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00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:29,880
it would give China another foot or
an additional lead over us? Or

327
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:36,599
do you think that the diversification of
big tech would actually strengthen America's situation.

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So if we continue on as normal
and we allow for companies like TikTok or

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Bite Dance generally speaking, to come
over here and operate with a huge advantage

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because they don't follow any of our
laws, they are allowed to do literally

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whatever they want and know for certain
that they will face no regulatory scrutiny.

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It really doesn't even matter, right, Like they're going to win regardless.

333
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And so you know, you have
to do a couple of things here.

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You have to push China out of
the US tech market. We can't allow

335
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them to just operate here with no
laws or guidelines. So that's step one.

336
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And then you look at the current
landscape. You know, is it

337
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:18,319
really much better than like a China
run digital landscape anyways? Like they're still

338
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:22,039
doing horrible things with our data,
They're still abusing the American people. I

339
00:24:22,039 --> 00:24:26,440
would argue that, you know,
it's just a little bit better marginally to

340
00:24:26,519 --> 00:24:30,799
have a US company abuse you than
a foreign one, but at least the

341
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veil of some more accountability. Yeah, and so going in and breaking that

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00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:38,000
up, and you know, dislodging
the stranglehold of just a couple of companies

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over the entire valley is huge.
I mean just looking in terms of labor,

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00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:47,720
right, I mean, having every
coder under one company, you know,

345
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the top one hundred people who doing
who are doing AI and development under

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00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:56,759
one ceiling would raise flags for anybody
because it's like the best minds are just

347
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working towards one single goal. Just
lot ically speaking, it's it's crazy,

348
00:25:00,599 --> 00:25:07,079
we're going to naturally develop at a
slower pace. China has this like completely

349
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:08,839
different mindset where they have you know, ten year, fifteen year, twenty

350
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:14,279
year goals and they're deploying the labor
and the companies in the direction to accomplish

351
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:18,680
them. We're just subservant to the
visions of these monopolies and whatever they choose

352
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:25,759
goes right. And so when they're
driven entirely by just upping revenue and shareholder

353
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,519
value, they're not going to push
us in the future we want. They're

354
00:25:29,519 --> 00:25:33,599
going to just maroon us in this
like twenty twenty landscape where we're getting propagandized

355
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,799
with short form video, We're getting
crazy amounts of data scraping. Like the

356
00:25:37,839 --> 00:25:41,920
innovation is going to be how can
we hook you for more time on the

357
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,079
device? Not like how can we
cure cancer with AI? Or how can

358
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:49,400
we you know, get to space
again? Like we're not putting our best

359
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:55,359
minds to you know, best use, We're instead just letting them. Yeah,

360
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,480
like how can we push more ads? Like that's what values doing right

361
00:25:57,519 --> 00:26:03,359
now? Yeah, And so like
to fix this it requires breaking it up.

362
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,400
And if you are that person who's
like, I'm not breaking up big

363
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,880
tech because I want innovation, you
need to realize that the thing that's going

364
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:14,559
to bring the best innovation and really
push us light years beyond China and the

365
00:26:14,599 --> 00:26:18,160
rest of the world and give our
kids the best future they could imagine it

366
00:26:18,279 --> 00:26:22,359
is breaking them up and unleashing the
full force of Silicon Valley to accomplish those

367
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:26,839
things. Interesting, So, the
foreign presence, though you know, Facebook

368
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,200
or Meta, whatever you want to
call it, has, like you said,

369
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:36,319
it is establishment. Basically every major
country would it not behoove them to

370
00:26:37,319 --> 00:26:40,279
rather than not behoo us to not
have them broken up so they could just

371
00:26:40,319 --> 00:26:45,400
focus wholesale on America's digital influence across
across the globe, because you know,

372
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,279
TikTok isn't going to get broken up
in China. It's just going to be

373
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one entity that the CCP backs entirely. Yeah, so you know, you

374
00:26:52,079 --> 00:26:56,839
would think that Facebook would be a
perfect comparison between TikTok and like the way

375
00:26:56,839 --> 00:27:00,119
that TikTok's in service and CCP.
Facebook could be in service of us and

376
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,000
it could be this great propaganda tool
that we deploy everywhere. But the problem

377
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:07,319
is they operate far closer to that
global entity than they do. An American

378
00:27:07,319 --> 00:27:14,039
company billion address might be in California, Your CEO might reside here. He

379
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,240
might look like you and I,
But when push comes to shove, he's

380
00:27:17,319 --> 00:27:22,759
far more eager to comply with the
asks of the CCP or any other adversarial

381
00:27:22,839 --> 00:27:26,519
nation than us, because he knows
when he comes to Washington, he can

382
00:27:26,559 --> 00:27:30,880
just look our congressman in the eyeslide
to them directly, and never get held

383
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,519
accountable. If you do that overseas
or in another one of these markets,

384
00:27:34,079 --> 00:27:38,559
we're going to like ban you from
operating where and so in theory, it

385
00:27:38,599 --> 00:27:42,759
would be great for us to have
these monopolies where it's like the information flows

386
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:48,039
completely through us. There is no
benefit for the American people. And it's

387
00:27:48,079 --> 00:27:52,319
one of those kind of styops really
that's run on the American people, right,

388
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:56,960
because they're trying to convince you that
in the situation where we break up

389
00:27:57,079 --> 00:28:03,000
or dislodge a face Book or a
Google stranglehold over information flows, we'll just

390
00:28:03,039 --> 00:28:07,359
be subjected to China's. Well,
the reality is we're not consuming pro American

391
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:14,359
content, right, We're consuming horrific
things those challenges we mentioned earlier. You

392
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:18,000
know, there is no benefit at
this current in this current tech landscape to

393
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:23,839
having a Facebook or to having an
Instagram have a huge market share. Instead,

394
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:29,440
you know, you're just subjected to
horrible things for the sake of profit.

395
00:28:29,559 --> 00:28:33,599
And so I think you have to
almost take a step back and assess

396
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:37,400
the current state of things and realize
that even if we pivoted somehow, it

397
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,079
would still be worse than breaking them
up. Even if we correct the course

398
00:28:41,119 --> 00:28:44,599
and all these things, like,
the damage has been done and it would

399
00:28:44,599 --> 00:28:48,119
almost be better to have these new
entrants to the market that give you like

400
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:55,279
an actual pro American message or family
values are spread on the platform, because

401
00:28:55,319 --> 00:28:59,160
that's really where things are headed,
right, Like we need a platform to

402
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:03,599
emerge that pulling people from the darkness, and it's like, uh, you

403
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:08,119
know, giving them an alternative to
fighting videos or you know, drug content,

404
00:29:08,279 --> 00:29:11,039
Like there has to be something else. And so until you break things

405
00:29:11,079 --> 00:29:15,480
apart and let it kind of sort
through, that we're going to just be

406
00:29:15,519 --> 00:29:19,920
stuck here. So there already is
you know, these alternative platforms. You

407
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,440
know, you have Parlory of Truth, Social, you have GAB, you

408
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,960
have I mean GABS, you know
obviously a bit more eccentric, but there

409
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:33,200
are you know, alternative platforms people
can access for pro American, pro family

410
00:29:33,599 --> 00:29:37,680
conservative speech. Why do you think
it's so hard for them to get off

411
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,319
the ground because it doesn't seem like
they're really going anywhere and they're kind of

412
00:29:40,319 --> 00:29:42,400
foundering out, Like they can reach
like a couple million people, and that's

413
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:47,920
that's it. We have unified this
political battle we find ourselves in with the

414
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:52,759
cultural battle when they're really like two
standalone issues. And you know, all

415
00:29:52,799 --> 00:29:56,960
of these platforms were built upon a
free speech environment for political speech, and

416
00:29:57,079 --> 00:30:02,759
you know, GAB tele Graham all
these different platforms, like they provide that

417
00:30:02,799 --> 00:30:07,839
free speech alternative, but they don't
merge over like beauty influencers, travel bloggers

418
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:12,640
and strict Yeah, and so you're
scrolling through and it's horrible. You're just

419
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:18,440
consuming, like things are never going
to get better, like the administration's corrupt.

420
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:22,240
All you're getting into political content and
Truth tried to do this. They

421
00:30:22,279 --> 00:30:26,000
tried to bring over music influencers,
but they were all like conservative music influencers.

422
00:30:26,039 --> 00:30:29,319
And you know, you bring over
a comedian, but his jokes are

423
00:30:29,359 --> 00:30:33,559
about politics, and like you do
all those things, and you're really just

424
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:38,079
locking people into a single content stream. The reason you can scroll through Twitter

425
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:42,319
or x now is because it's broken
up. You get two political tweets,

426
00:30:42,359 --> 00:30:48,240
a beauty tweet, travel tweet,
like the average users getting a huge scope

427
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:52,799
of content. Interesting, It totally
makes sense. It's until you can post

428
00:30:52,799 --> 00:30:55,759
a picture of your dog without getting
taught about the twenty twenty election, it's

429
00:30:55,759 --> 00:30:59,599
not going to take off. So
I mean totally tracks. Let's pivot two.

430
00:30:59,599 --> 00:31:03,480
AI. What are your thoughts on
the influence of artificial intelligence in censorship

431
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,880
within what implications have for free speech? Should we be scared of a terminator

432
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,480
situation. Yes, So when it
comes to censorship, AI is very interesting

433
00:31:11,519 --> 00:31:15,319
because it really just enhances the efficiency
of the existing system. Right, so

434
00:31:17,079 --> 00:31:22,720
it's expedites that manual review process where
you're looking for mean words, and just

435
00:31:22,759 --> 00:31:26,440
streamlines it. So instead of going
through as a person and clicking through everyone

436
00:31:26,519 --> 00:31:33,440
who said, like the election was
rigged or these types of bigger censorship efforts,

437
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:38,160
it just manually bypasses the manual review
and automates the whole thing, just

438
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:44,319
flags anyone who matches a certain set
of criteria and so far more efficient,

439
00:31:44,359 --> 00:31:48,000
flag far more content than any person
could do, and so censorship reaches a

440
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:52,559
new level. It really just accelerates. So, I mean that's huge.

441
00:31:52,599 --> 00:31:57,319
But when you look at the broader
landscape of AI, the really interesting thing

442
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:02,079
that we're finding ourselves and as like, it really just depends on who's leading

443
00:32:02,079 --> 00:32:07,960
the ship. You know, this
tech could be used for an infinite array

444
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:12,119
of purposes. You could use it
for, you know, making censorship more

445
00:32:12,119 --> 00:32:14,680
efficient, or you could also use
it to write your emails. You could

446
00:32:14,759 --> 00:32:19,000
use it to streamline healthcare, Like, no shortage of how you could use

447
00:32:19,039 --> 00:32:22,279
this. Yet we're using it for
very silly things, and so it almost

448
00:32:22,279 --> 00:32:27,920
goes back to that whole point we
had earlier where until you dislodge the stranglehold,

449
00:32:28,359 --> 00:32:30,039
like we're going to misuse our tech
and our talent for things that really

450
00:32:30,039 --> 00:32:37,440
don't matter. So, what are
some instances in which AI has been implemented

451
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:44,359
effectively business medicine, Because my understanding
is that the more we automate the health

452
00:32:44,359 --> 00:32:46,680
industry, the worse it gets for
everybody. I can think of probably three

453
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:51,680
people at most who have benefited from
telehealth. Everyone else is just horribly annoyed

454
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,599
with it. Horribly annoyed with the
automation. Yeah, you know, I

455
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:58,680
think that's where we'll feel it first. Is this like customer service omit and

456
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,200
it's going to be horrible. Like
also we can get worse out. Yeah,

457
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:07,319
Like we already hate the current customer
service kind of offering. It's going

458
00:33:07,359 --> 00:33:10,559
to get way worse because they aren't
going to emotionally relate to you at all

459
00:33:10,599 --> 00:33:15,640
when you're frustrated. It's going to
give you this like canned respond to try

460
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:21,000
and de escalate the situation, and
like that is probably the first line of

461
00:33:21,519 --> 00:33:22,920
kind of introduction, right, Like
that is where you're going to feel it.

462
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,559
See it first, those jobs are
just going to disappear. We're not

463
00:33:25,599 --> 00:33:29,599
going to outsource the India, We're
just gonna have how I do it?

464
00:33:30,799 --> 00:33:36,759
Excuse me, but you know,
long term, like think of a slide

465
00:33:36,759 --> 00:33:40,799
deck creation, like these kind of
silly points of your day to day where

466
00:33:40,799 --> 00:33:45,440
like your artistic ability doesn't define the
content or the merits of like the business

467
00:33:45,519 --> 00:33:50,839
recommendations here in like the consulting world, but it limits how seriously you're taken

468
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:55,119
because you just cannot figure out how
to layer those colors correctly. The AI

469
00:33:55,279 --> 00:33:59,599
is going to be able to come
in and make you a beautiful slide deck,

470
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:04,079
and it's going to make your presentation
be taken seriously. And maybe those

471
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:08,039
changes are adopted quicker because it's something
as silly as you know, color theory

472
00:34:08,159 --> 00:34:12,760
is, you know, actually properly
executed. And so there are just areas

473
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,079
where like we as humans aren't universally
good at these things like design, and

474
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:22,000
AI will just eliminate that store point. Maybe it makes you write your research

475
00:34:22,039 --> 00:34:24,400
paper ten times faster, not because
it's writing the research for you, but

476
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:30,159
because it's pulling the correct scholarly journals
and you have to use these stupid keywords

477
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:35,360
and you're sifting through millions and millions
of pages, it just highlights the three

478
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,000
that you should look at the first, right, So like those things great

479
00:34:38,039 --> 00:34:43,480
application, it's going to enhance human
output and it's going to make us better.

480
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:46,760
And then you have the kind of
silly things where it's like customer service,

481
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:52,039
like do we need it maybe,
like it's debatable at best, but

482
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:57,519
you know, actually like deploying it
in meaningful ways that enhances your day to

483
00:34:57,599 --> 00:35:00,840
day and then driving those moon shots
in the right direction of giving them the

484
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:07,880
proper funding to where like clinical research
is enhanced, or you know, we

485
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,960
have these crazy advancements and like robotics
because of an epiphany that it had on

486
00:35:12,039 --> 00:35:15,679
some equation that now enables development,
like it can just make us better,

487
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:20,440
but instead we're going to be profit
chasing and we're going to be trying to

488
00:35:20,519 --> 00:35:23,840
cut costs and people clicking on ads
exactly. And it's just like we get

489
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:29,440
locked in the current thing rather than
using this tech to shoot us into the

490
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,360
future. And honestly, like China
is going to be much more eager to

491
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:37,480
use this tech to you know,
go for those moon shots to try and

492
00:35:37,519 --> 00:35:40,599
get out of this kind of the
shadow of the United States, and we're

493
00:35:40,599 --> 00:35:44,840
going to just play with the lead, try not to lose, and just

494
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:49,079
like bolster our current system. And
that's not sufficient. You have to be

495
00:35:49,119 --> 00:35:53,599
making those moon shots. You have
to be trying to actually accomplish new things

496
00:35:53,639 --> 00:35:59,280
and push for something better. But
yeah, as you know, we've kind

497
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,719
of the theme of this, we're
just gonna get more ads and like maybe

498
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:06,639
they're personalized now they're wonderblee. Yeah, the algorithm gets better. Yeah,

499
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,280
like you're the crocs that recommends you
are that your perfect color and the foot

500
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:14,480
it's in looks more like yours?
And like, is that really a benefit

501
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,880
of AI? No, Like,
in reality, it makes things way worse

502
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:22,480
than they already were. So guide
this tech in the right direction. What

503
00:36:22,599 --> 00:36:25,159
are those moonshots in the US?
You know we already have In China,

504
00:36:25,199 --> 00:36:30,320
they're basically moving all of their manufacturing
two artificial intelligence based systems. Whether or

505
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,199
not the robotics is there, I'm
not entirely sure. Yeah, but they're

506
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,840
far more focused on, like you
said, getting out of our shadow and

507
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,920
becoming or at least displacing US as
the hedgemon. What should the US focus

508
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:44,440
on when it comes to AI projects, you, the moon shots are going

509
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,039
to look very different because philosophically,
we have very different goals, right.

510
00:36:47,079 --> 00:36:51,559
I think like in the United States, are moon shots should be about enhancing

511
00:36:51,599 --> 00:36:57,239
human flourishing, you know, ending
unnecessary suffering. We should use this for

512
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,119
clinical research to have those breakthroughs that
have stalled for so many years, right,

513
00:37:00,199 --> 00:37:04,320
Like it's inexcusable we having cure cancer. I think a lot of people

514
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,159
just go and complacent and just accepted
the fact that we hit that wall and

515
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,039
it's just never going to get better. Like AI could be that revolutionary breakthrough

516
00:37:10,079 --> 00:37:15,880
that we need in order to just
end that needless suffering that millions of Americans

517
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:19,639
have to go through. And so
like we're going to go for that.

518
00:37:20,039 --> 00:37:25,039
China might choose to do things like
increased manufacturing output, and like there's merit

519
00:37:25,119 --> 00:37:30,119
to that. Don't get me wrong, but I would rather have those manufacturing

520
00:37:30,199 --> 00:37:32,400
jobs, right, And I think
like it goes back to that Tucker Carlson

521
00:37:32,559 --> 00:37:37,239
Ben Shapiro debate that always goes around
Twitter, like every two weeks of you

522
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,760
know, do automate away the truckers
or for the purpose of enhancing GDP be

523
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:45,800
more efficient or do you keep that
kind of revenue stream for those high school

524
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,280
educated men who can't aren't going to
learn to code, right, Like they're

525
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,760
just going to be on welfare if
you get rid of the trucking industry,

526
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:53,400
and like, we're going to have
to grapple with those in a way that

527
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:57,920
China isn't because they're just looking at
the number. They don't really care about

528
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,360
their people the way that we should
be caring about our people. And so

529
00:38:01,039 --> 00:38:06,000
we shouldn't be blinded in this race
to the bottom, right, Like the

530
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:10,679
tech should just enhance human flourishing and
the human experience. And like, if

531
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:15,320
we just get sucked into this US
versus China dynamic, which is very important,

532
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,119
we can't afford to let China win. But if we played by their

533
00:38:19,199 --> 00:38:23,159
rules and we just are purely looking
to get the best tech possible and don't

534
00:38:23,159 --> 00:38:29,119
really care how it ends, it's
going to look way worse than it needs

535
00:38:29,159 --> 00:38:30,960
to be. So I think,
like, you know, go into this

536
00:38:31,039 --> 00:38:35,079
battle, win the battle, but
stick to our own principles and our own

537
00:38:35,079 --> 00:38:38,400
morals, and things get better for
us. What risk do we run with

538
00:38:38,639 --> 00:38:43,400
job displacement? Do you think it'll
be a nap To esque situation where huge

539
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,280
parts of the country are just kind
of gutted, or do you think it's

540
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:50,280
far overblown? Kind of like how
ATMs didn't displace bankers. I think it's

541
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:53,480
probably a lot further out than people
are comfortable accepting, you know, like

542
00:38:53,599 --> 00:38:58,440
the timeline wise, Yeah, Like
I think the displacement happens. It's just

543
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:00,400
like a debate over when, right, Like robotics has to catch up for

544
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:05,360
the manufacturing, and I think that's
like generally been established in the public domain.

545
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:09,719
Like people agree that the robotics thing
is lagging behind and we're not going

546
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:14,320
to have this big manufacturing revolution the
way that you know, the sci fi

547
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,559
movies would suggest. But the email
jobs, like people are already feeling that.

548
00:39:17,639 --> 00:39:22,159
Right, if you're just like a
middleman for information, it's pretty easy

549
00:39:22,159 --> 00:39:24,719
to just cut you out of the
workforce. And so it's kind of like

550
00:39:25,159 --> 00:39:29,400
not to say they're meaningless, but
they're kind of meaningless positions and these kind

551
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,840
of corporate landscapes, corporate environments that
the least yeah, and so like those

552
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:37,639
people are going to probably get axed
a lot quicker, and like we shouldn't

553
00:39:37,679 --> 00:39:40,800
just be okay with let's throwing them
to the wolves, right, so there

554
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,360
is going to have to be like
a very serious conversation about what do we

555
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,880
do with these people who get automated
out because if they go downstream and they

556
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,920
go to like, let's say the
retail industry, you go from like kind

557
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,800
of low level white collar job of
answering emails or phones or whatever to retail.

558
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,480
Those retail cashiers can't compete with someone
of the competency of just like wondering

559
00:40:00,519 --> 00:40:06,280
above them. Right, It's like
once you get down to those lower pillars

560
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,800
of the pyramid, those leaps are
way bigger, right Like, in terms

561
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:14,960
of competency, think about when we
introduced the computer to the cashier environment instead

562
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:19,079
of just pressing like that typewriter,
mechanical cashier, Like, now you have

563
00:40:19,199 --> 00:40:22,719
to have a decent understanding how to
navigate a computer interface. And in the

564
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,440
early stages, like it displaced a
lot of people. And where do you

565
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:29,320
go if you can't be a cash
register worker? Right, Like, if

566
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:31,000
you aren't if you're a cash teller, like, there isn't a whole lot

567
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:36,239
of other jobs below that rung where
you could go. And so you don't

568
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:40,039
want to start a domino effect where
it's like the level above you comes down,

569
00:40:40,079 --> 00:40:44,280
displaces you, you go down because
what did those people do wrong?

570
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:46,559
Right, Like they graduated high school, maybe they went into a trade industry

571
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:52,559
and like in theory their life was
set, but just because someone else's job

572
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:54,880
was automated away and they came down
to tier, like now they're losing their

573
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:59,920
job, and like, we're just
gonna have to really think about the American

574
00:41:00,119 --> 00:41:01,880
worker and what this is going to
do to the dignity of work. And

575
00:41:04,119 --> 00:41:07,400
I don't think we're having those conversations
right now in Washington's a little concerning.

576
00:41:08,039 --> 00:41:13,079
We've talked about it for like maybe
two seconds with that POSEI development where it

577
00:41:13,199 --> 00:41:15,880
said, you know, doing anythink
it's crazy we haven't stopped and asked,

578
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:20,199
should automate a way fulfilling jobs?
Yeah? And it's like, okay,

579
00:41:20,679 --> 00:41:24,039
does Hollywood horrible? Yeah? But
like should films just be artificially generated from

580
00:41:24,199 --> 00:41:30,039
a text query into a chat GBD
style box, Like no, that's probably

581
00:41:30,079 --> 00:41:32,960
like just as bad, if not
worse as like a woke Hollywood, Like

582
00:41:34,079 --> 00:41:40,000
we don't need computer animated everything.
So like those types of conversations need to

583
00:41:40,039 --> 00:41:44,960
have like a bigger constituency here in
Washington, and they currently do and as

584
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,239
part of what we're doing, we're
trying to like normalize those conversations, make

585
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:52,440
like lawmakers think critically about that,
but it's for it. It's almost as

586
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,440
like trying to teach them Chinese,
and like a single sitting you can't look

587
00:41:55,519 --> 00:42:00,039
to this like future without just getting
caught up in like a blade runner or

588
00:42:00,199 --> 00:42:06,880
like pop cultural paradigm where like instead
of you know, seeing the current state

589
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:08,840
of things and making a prediction or
a leap of where they're headed, you

590
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:13,880
just jump to like a sci fi
scenario. And it's helpful for like understanding

591
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,480
doomsday scenarios, but in terms of
like actually an acting policy, it's a

592
00:42:17,599 --> 00:42:23,039
huge distraction. And like they're far
more comfortable commission eighteen month studies, thirty

593
00:42:23,079 --> 00:42:28,880
six month studies, whatever than actually
just like putting pen to paper and making

594
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,039
a rule or a law. We
would rather, you know, sit back

595
00:42:32,079 --> 00:42:36,159
and see what the experts say and
then come back to the drawing board and

596
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,480
over and over and over again.
And it's like maybe just like take a

597
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,840
shot, take a stab at it. You know, what's the worst that

598
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:45,719
could happen? Because right now,
like we're just letting these companies do whatever

599
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:49,639
they want. And we all universally
accept like that can't go on, right,

600
00:42:49,679 --> 00:42:52,719
Like, at some point they will
have to have guardrails in place.

601
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:57,079
There would have to be a regulatory
framework to make sure that development doesn't go

602
00:42:57,119 --> 00:43:00,559
awry. And it's like, why
not starting now when it's at least in

603
00:43:00,599 --> 00:43:05,119
it's early stages, it's controllable,
you know, if we have to take

604
00:43:05,119 --> 00:43:09,119
a step backward to become in you
know, accordance with the guidelines, Like

605
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:15,840
it's not a devastating below. It
seems logical, like every person throughout the

606
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:17,800
country would think that would be the
approach. But instead we're like, let's

607
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:22,760
let this thing get bigger and stronger
and faster and the leaps to be even

608
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:27,320
harder to catch before we put pen
to paper. And that's just not like

609
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,079
a viable strategy for this. Well, we're very bad at being proactive,

610
00:43:30,119 --> 00:43:34,400
always reactive, and when we react, we always missed the mark more from

611
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,719
than not miss the market absolutely.
And you know, you think that lawmakers

612
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:39,440
would just be so excited that they
could shape the rest of the world.

613
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:43,400
And like you think not only the
rest of the world, like the future

614
00:43:43,599 --> 00:43:47,480
right, like healthcare debate, huge
impact everything. It's not going to shape

615
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:52,440
the future the way the day I
will, Like they could truly define the

616
00:43:52,559 --> 00:43:55,679
rest of time on earth by like
putting pen to paper in this early stage,

617
00:43:55,719 --> 00:44:00,639
Like they could create an environment that
Gide's ai in a director that gives

618
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:06,239
us our wildest dreams and you know
we truly unlock our full potential. But

619
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:08,519
instead we're like, it's kind of
scary to you know, get out in

620
00:44:08,599 --> 00:44:12,079
front of this thing and maybe mess
up. So you know, we're just

621
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:13,760
not going to do it, because
what if, you know, my bill

622
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:15,960
fails and I don't get reelected,
And it's like you can't legislate in this

623
00:44:16,039 --> 00:44:20,360
dynamic, especially in tech, with
the fear. You have to be bold,

624
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:24,480
decisive and you know, take a
shot. You could have seventy confidence.

625
00:44:25,199 --> 00:44:28,360
Maybe that's as good as you're going
to get with this type of thing,

626
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:30,960
and you have to be comfortable with
that and take that leap. Very

627
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:34,599
a few people are comfortable with that. What would you tell to the you

628
00:44:34,679 --> 00:44:37,280
know, the cowards and Congress who
are too afraid to actually take a risk

629
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:39,760
that could shape the future in a
positive direction, uh that you know,

630
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:44,280
if you don't step up to the
plate and if you don't roll the dice.

631
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:50,559
In these early stages, the native
impact of a wrong decision today is

632
00:44:51,039 --> 00:44:57,920
far more inconsequential than doing nothing and
letting this thing just like go unchecked and

633
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:01,239
just keep getting bigger and bigger and
bigger, because that explosion of a bad

634
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:06,519
decision on your end or from the
corporate end is going to be increasingly more

635
00:45:06,599 --> 00:45:10,440
impactful as it as it gets bigger. And so like we're talking kind of

636
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:16,559
like tiny setbacks in this stage where
like name me one company right now that's

637
00:45:16,599 --> 00:45:20,719
like really commercially integrating AI. Like
if we were to put a guardrail in

638
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:22,920
place, it wouldn't blow them up. But if we wait for this to

639
00:45:23,119 --> 00:45:28,519
be our entire life, right like
social media, is we someone regulated social

640
00:45:28,519 --> 00:45:30,599
media at all, And it's like
now people freak out when we try and

641
00:45:30,639 --> 00:45:34,719
make new rules for social media.
If we do the same trajectory for AI,

642
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,920
it's gonna be devastated. You're going
to have like the business world asking

643
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:42,440
like who's going to come send emails
like the AI is doing all of that,

644
00:45:42,519 --> 00:45:45,840
like where are the workers exactly?
And you think back to like the

645
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:51,679
colonial pipeline kind of comparison, they
had to like call people out of retirement

646
00:45:51,679 --> 00:45:54,480
to go manually turn on the pipeline
because no one could figure out how to

647
00:45:54,519 --> 00:45:59,760
do it in their current workforce.
Everyone was trained digitally and no one had

648
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,840
that like field experience, and the
same dynamic is going to happen. And

649
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:07,519
so if you don't like put these
guardrails in place early, and you have

650
00:46:07,599 --> 00:46:10,079
to blow this thing up later down
the road because it's gotten out of control,

651
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:14,880
Like you're going to have those situations
where okay, now we don't have

652
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:19,639
like entry level coders there, they've
been automated away. You know, you

653
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,679
just regulated this. There's this unintended
consequence where like we can't have AI code

654
00:46:22,679 --> 00:46:25,679
these things, who's going to come
do it? And okay, so we're

655
00:46:25,679 --> 00:46:30,719
going to pause all development here until
we can train people again. And you

656
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:31,800
just don't have to. It doesn't
have to be like that, right,

657
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:37,440
like it's it can all be avoided, And I think people don't understand that

658
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:43,000
here in Washington. That just building
a strong foundation of like universally accepted computer

659
00:46:43,039 --> 00:46:46,920
science concepts like AI explainability, just
having to be open enough to where you

660
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:52,800
can audit its decision making process could
radically change the course of AI development and

661
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:57,719
oversight and allow you to actually keep
track of what's going on, and like,

662
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,239
show me the AI Explainability Bill,
right, Like no one has put

663
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:04,039
a pen to paper to do that. Every single one of their briefings is

664
00:47:04,039 --> 00:47:06,840
telling them to do it. No
one's doing it because it's scary, Like

665
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,400
what is explainability? Like it's a
big word. When you put aie in

666
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:14,719
front of it, it's like even
more daunting, and it's just like you're

667
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,239
not a technologist, You're never going
to be a technologist, but like it

668
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:21,800
is the obvious thing to do,
so you need to do it. And

669
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:24,400
they're just going to have to get
comfortable with it because these conversations and these

670
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:29,760
policy like conundrums are just going to
get bigger and bigger. And if you

671
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,159
can't handle social media, if you
can't handle TikTok, and you can't handle

672
00:47:32,199 --> 00:47:37,280
AI, what are you going to
do in twenty thirty, twenty forty when

673
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:39,079
you know you still are on the
compounds and compounds, Yeah, you're on

674
00:47:39,119 --> 00:47:45,280
your fifteenth term and you know you've
never acted on tech and your constituents are

675
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:46,480
sitting there like, man, is
this ever going to get better? And

676
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:51,960
in that dynamic where you know you
just let this thing compound. No,

677
00:47:52,199 --> 00:47:55,280
it's just going to keep getting worse. So I think, you know,

678
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:59,199
it's easy to be blackpilled, and
you know, I think this is just

679
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:01,599
going to get worse. We're in
the very early stages and like in the

680
00:48:01,679 --> 00:48:05,800
very early stages of the digital revolution
altogether, not just AI, Like,

681
00:48:06,119 --> 00:48:09,960
we're only twenty or so years into
this kind of paradigm we find ourselves in.

682
00:48:10,679 --> 00:48:15,280
It's not too late to dislodge from
this current trajectory where we just consume

683
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:20,360
and consume and consume. We can
reshape tech and Silicon Valley to be in

684
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:22,639
service of us. But you know, the longer you wait, the harder

685
00:48:22,679 --> 00:48:27,119
it gets. And that battle is
going to come sooner or later. So

686
00:48:27,159 --> 00:48:30,320
why not do it when you stand
a chance? Right? Like it's the

687
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:34,119
logical thing, but just not even
a thought. A lot of people here

688
00:48:34,159 --> 00:48:37,400
have for sure, But what's the
reason to be optimistic in your mind?

689
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:43,559
I think that you know, my
generation, in particular Gen Z is waking

690
00:48:43,599 --> 00:48:45,800
up to this. You know a
lot of my peers are having those conversations

691
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:50,679
of you know, why is the
digital environment like this? Like why do

692
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:57,000
we have to just be okay with
being bombarded with advertisements? Or subjected to

693
00:48:57,039 --> 00:49:02,519
Chinese technology or horrible data privacy protections, like we are coming to the realization

694
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:06,440
that this is at an environment we
want to live in. And then you

695
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:10,280
look to Washington and you know,
we don't have a voice. There's just

696
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:14,639
a generation of lawmakers who haven't sent
a tweet. You know, they have

697
00:49:14,639 --> 00:49:16,519
a Twitter account, so people think
that you know, they're sitting there sending

698
00:49:16,559 --> 00:49:20,760
them off. It's their communication staffer. You know, if you've told them

699
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,239
that my direct messages were being monitored
by the FBI and hand it over it

700
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:27,840
was proven in the Twitter files.
They maybe pick up on what Twitter is,

701
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,719
but everything else is foreign to them. They don't understand what a direct

702
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:35,079
message is. And that is only
going to last for so much longer.

703
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:42,119
The pressure is mounting for lawmakers who
can get here and actually understand these critical

704
00:49:42,119 --> 00:49:45,719
conversations about the digital environment. And
you know whether or not that means they

705
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:50,599
come here and they make things worse
because they're beholding to the tech companies or

706
00:49:50,599 --> 00:49:52,239
they dislodge it. It's yet to
be seeing because we don't we still don't

707
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:57,320
have a generation of people who've grown
up on this tech in Washington. But

708
00:49:58,119 --> 00:50:01,639
you know, there is a huge
movement of folks that are you know,

709
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:07,280
single issue voters on tech, and
eventually it's just it has to give.

710
00:50:07,159 --> 00:50:12,280
And so what it looks like it's
really tough to say, but you know,

711
00:50:12,679 --> 00:50:15,559
as things get worse, it's going
to be a lot harder to just

712
00:50:15,599 --> 00:50:22,480
do congressional hearing after congressional hearing and
never advance legislation or never hold the CEO

713
00:50:22,519 --> 00:50:27,159
accountable for just like lying to your
face over and over. People are just

714
00:50:27,199 --> 00:50:30,239
getting fed up. And you know, I travel for work where we go

715
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:35,280
speak at these family policy conferences and
I talk to parents and they're they're just

716
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,239
so confused. How could you know
my congressman in Washington be okay with my

717
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:44,760
kid contemplating suicide because the TikTok they
saw and like, it is very hard

718
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:47,360
for them to get over that,
and that there's such little disregard for that

719
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:52,079
whole element of the family's life,
that digital element, that one of these

720
00:50:52,199 --> 00:50:55,280
days someone's going to have to come
to Washington and change it. Whether it's

721
00:50:55,320 --> 00:51:01,400
the current congressman who has that profound
realization or someone new. It's tough to

722
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:07,079
say what comes first, but people
are feeling it, and I think,

723
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:10,360
you know, it's it's got to
give. It's at some point. So

724
00:51:10,679 --> 00:51:15,000
that's probably the optimism is you know, even if it's getting worse, it's

725
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:20,159
applying pressure and maybe that makes someone
do something. Right. Thinks the only

726
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:23,480
be bad for so long before people
react exactly. I think like, uh,

727
00:51:23,559 --> 00:51:28,440
you know, if you just consider
the last couple of years, whether

728
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:31,320
it be censoring, you know,
COVID where you were locking your house,

729
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:35,800
you couldn't get actual news. Right. We saw on the Facebook files which

730
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:39,519
were released. It's another smoking gun. It's like our fifteenth one from yeah,

731
00:51:39,599 --> 00:51:43,119
the last like Congress, right,
we have a lot of smoking guns

732
00:51:43,199 --> 00:51:47,280
right now. They're just like piled
up in the corner. There's Biden administration

733
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:51,079
staffer, could you take down this
meme? Like it's harmful for our pro

734
00:51:51,159 --> 00:51:54,599
vaccine narrative and like there were a
lot of families that never got to see

735
00:51:54,599 --> 00:51:58,800
that meme And should your life decision
be shaped by that meme? No,

736
00:51:59,159 --> 00:52:01,320
But like it wasn't the only meme
that was taken down. It wasn't the

737
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:06,239
only piece of content. And it's
part of this bigger effort to just control

738
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:09,760
what we consume. And you know, as the stakes rise and you know,

739
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:13,880
as these conversations, whether it be
in tech or health or really just

740
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:19,519
family value type policy battles emerge,
they can't be decoupled from tech. There's

741
00:52:19,559 --> 00:52:22,880
a single point of failure within these
social media platforms where if you can't get

742
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:27,960
your message that counter perspective out there, they're just never gonna, you know,

743
00:52:28,199 --> 00:52:32,000
give and so things just snowball.
So I think that's the biggest part

744
00:52:32,039 --> 00:52:37,920
of this is at some point they're
going to have to take this seriously,

745
00:52:37,039 --> 00:52:42,679
because every issue gets worse when tech
isn't a viable platform for us to communicate.

746
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:45,719
Definitely. Well, Jake, it's
been great having you. Thanks so

747
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:47,960
much for coming. Where can people
find you and find your work? Absolutely

748
00:52:49,039 --> 00:52:52,039
thanks for having me. I'm on
Twitter at real j Denton. You can

749
00:52:52,079 --> 00:52:57,239
find me also on the Heritage Foundations's
website. Just type in tech or Jake

750
00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:00,800
Denton and all of our writings are
up there. From eye to TikTok.

751
00:53:00,079 --> 00:53:02,719
Fantastic. Well, we'll all to
have you back again soon and look forward

752
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:06,559
to reading your work. As always, be lowers of freedom and cots for

753
00:53:06,599 --> 00:53:07,599
the fray. I see you next
time.