WEBVTT

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Hello, friends, and welcome to
this episode of Superhero Ethics. Today,

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myself and Comic book expert extraordinaire Will
Freeland are here to talk to you about

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Spider Man Across the Spider Verse,
the second of the Miles Moralyss movies.

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We're gonna try hard to find the
ethical questions we want to discuss. It

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might mostly be a podcast of the
two of us incoherently screaming about how amazing

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this movie was, and maybe the
ethic question is just why don't all movies

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like are this good? We'll see, we'll find some good ethical questions.

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We're gonna talk about all the things
about the movie. We're talking about the

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comic book connections in the movie.
We're gonna ask some good questions. All

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that more. After commercial break that
if it's from the rocks On Corporation,

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turn off the podcast. Now,
welcome back, missus. Matthew, your

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host. If you were confused to
be by that mention of the rocks On

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Corporation, which I don't think appears
anywhere in this movie, well the thing

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is, I was so blown away
by this movie. I came home,

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I watched some videos about it,
and then I was like I need more

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Miles Morales in my life. So
I downloaded the Miles Morales video game and

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started playing it, and that's why
rock Son is on my mind. But

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it is just let's talk about it, whale, because this was one hell

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of a movie. That's amazing.
Did you play Did you play the The

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Spider Man PS four game? I
played the PS four game. We kept

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thinking we wanted to play the fifth
one, the new one the Miles Morales

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won, and we got it on
PS four, but then we're like,

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ah, do you really want to
play in the PS four It's probably gonna

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kill our system, which which wait
to play it on the PS five.

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We finally got the PS five mostly
played the Star Wars Jedi game, which

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stopped once the Zelda game came out. But then last night I was like,

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no, no, no, I'm
sorry, we got we got to

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download this. So yeah, um, not quite as hipo Miles Morales as

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in the movie, but you know, still still a good way to get

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a little Morales in your life.
But yeah, So first, well,

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why don't you introduce yourself a little
bit because I think you are an MCU

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comic guy, and if I remember
Spidy as your guy, so Spider Man

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is my favorite. For those who
haven't heard you before, talked a little

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about yourself. Hi, So Will
Freeland on the Internet, primarily known as

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Silver Dreamer. You can find me
on Twitter or Twitch or Instagram. I

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also have a TikTok that I post
zero comics stuff about but it exists.

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And I also have a podcast of
my own called Hype is My Superpower.

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It's me and my best buddy Steve. We talk about comics, um ad

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nauseum. Sorry my dogs here,
um, but we uh we talk about

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all the comics that we read.
I read all of the current six one

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six universe, and Steve reads all
of the comics that have mutants in them.

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It's a lot of fun. Nice
nice. So all right, so

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you went into this movie. I
know you'd enjoyed the first you enjoyed the

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video game overall, What do you
think? It's a movie so good?

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Uh? So, the last three
Spider Man movies that have come out into

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the Spider Verse, into the Spider
Verse, No Way Home and then across

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the Spider Verse all have become my
new favorite Spider Man movie. Yeah,

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um, just oh it was it? So impressed? Like they they they

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were able to connect it plot wise
with into the Spider Verse, but then

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still um create their own unique story
and introduce more spiders from across the entire

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web of life and destiny and and
and just it was. It was so

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fun um and uh there there are
definitely there's a couple of like holes in

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the plot that I was like,
okay, but how does this technically work?

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And so like I'm I'm really chomping
at the bit to get beyond the

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Spider Verse to figure out are they
going to resolve that? Are are they

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going to leave it be? What's
where are they going to do? So

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huge spoiler warning where you spoil everything
in this movie. If you haven't seen

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it yet, I don't know what
you're doing in your life. If you

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want to want to go to the
theater, I get that. I really

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hope it's gonna be available online as
soon as possible. But it is so

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good, definitely worth seeing. I
have to tell you a couple I have

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to tell you a couple of times. As we were getting towards the end

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of the movie, I started to
have this weird thought of is this going

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to end with a to be continued
kind of a thing, because the movie

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had gone very long, and then
like all of a sudden, it really

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started when we realized he was in
the wrong world and we were like,

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oh, okay, wait, this
is a different problem, this is a

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different Miles Morales. And I was
really thinking, like, are we is

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this going to be a two b
continued situation? I think it might be

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because I didn't think like we now
needed another half hour for the movie.

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And then Gwen shows up outside Peter
B. Parker's house and you start to

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do the pan that out and I
was like, are you gonna do it?

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Are you gonna do it? And
I just needed to see like a

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couple of like pixels that were black
and white, and I was like,

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yes, it's Spider Man. And
I was like that point of new,

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like we're getting a whole new to
be continued, and I was. I

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was just so it made me so
happy to know that they'd planned this all,

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that the two and three were fitting
together. Yeah. I remember,

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um, it was not too long
after they announced this movie. They're like,

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yeah, it's going to be a
two parter and I was like,

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oh, well, okay, and
then the name got dropped and it was

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you know, across Spider Verse and
didn't say part one, and I was

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like, did they go back on
that or like, what's what's going on

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here? And they basically put pulled
an Infinity War end game on us.

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Yeah, and I'm here for it
because like it's it's it's so much fun

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because you see this in comic books
a lot where they so I retreat paperbacks,

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so like it's like five and six
issues at once in one like book,

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and they'll be this like behind the
scenes plot the big bad is building

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up as we watch the hero go
through there like their mini plot, their

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current thing. And so when you
get to the end, it's it always

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ends with this cliffhanger of like,
hey, but the big guy is still

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going And they did that, and
like across the Spider Verse was one tp

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of the mas Morales story and it's
just and and and and I'm just so

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I'm so ready, give me,
give me the resolution I want to know.

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I have to say, and again, for those who enjoy things in

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a different way than I do,
that is totally fine. I'm just talking

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about my experience. I think this
movie, more than anything else, has

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made me feel so vindicated in my
no trailers, no one from it.

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I went into this knowing nothing.
I knew that Quinn was going to be

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in it, and I knew that
they were going to play up the possibility

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of the romance that was it,
and so like India Spider Man and that

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whole bit of like awesome representation and
just awesome amazingness. H the British punk

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Spider Man, Miguel, all the
crazy Spider people, and the fact that

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it was going to be two movies
I had no idea about, and it

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just it was like every five minutes
there was something new that I was like,

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Okay, well, this is not
what the movie is, and then

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they did something else knew that I
just had never expected. It was totally

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blown away by Yeah, it's that's
the I wish I could live that life.

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It's just there's so many movies that
I go and watched that I end

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up seeing, like in the same
genre type that I end up saying trailers

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for it and stuff like I went
and saw Fast X like three weeks ago,

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and it had a trailer for Across
the Spiders. Damn it. Oh

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well, I just I just kind
of hang out in the back of the

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theater and like walk to my seat
when they start doing they're like, you

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should go buy a popcorn thing just
to skip the trailers entirely. So let

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me just jump in with a question
though, because I think one the main

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things I want to talk about is
like, how what if this is from

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comics and how does it connect?
But so are we officially spoilers? Like

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I don't want to, like I've
dropped spoiler walking. Okay, everything here

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is spoilers forward. We can spoil
whatever we want, sure, So here's

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one of my biggest questions for you, again as someone who knows the comics

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really well but also just knows how
all these things work. There was a

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little bit of this in the first
movie, but especially in this it felt

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very clear that they are establishing that
this that the the universes that they are

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going to, like the MCU universe
is one of it is all part of

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the same multiverse. And we saw
we saw some Sony stuff. We definitely

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saw like you know, Tony McGuire
spat Spider Man and Anthony Garfield Spider Man.

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But then especially the Donald Glover character
because we saw him as a live

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action umar Aaron Davis yea the Far
From Home where he mentioned that he had

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a nephew, and then here we
saw him as a live action prowler,

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which, hey, just the fact
that they were able to blend live action

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with animation, like thank you Mary
Poppins. Yeah, Mary Poppins, Rabbit

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and Roger Rabbit fly. I mean. And I remember watching the first Miles

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and being like, why isn't this
part of the MCU like and someways I'm

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glad he was getting so big enoverploated. But here's my point. When I

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got to the end and it said
to be continued, and then I knew

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we were going to get a like
you know, Miles Morales will return in

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I wondered if they were going to
say some MCU product, because here's my

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question. Now that we've established in
the MCU that we're very much in multiverse

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land, do you think we're going
to get any of the Miles Morales universe

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stuff happening in anything MCU puts on
screen? So I'll say, I wouldn't

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be surprised if we do, first
of all. Second of all, I

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don't want it to. I guess
if we do, the way I would

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do it would would be if it's
in beyond and it's like a two to

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three minutes scene of animated Miles in
a live action mc in New York or

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something. Because that's one thing that
they've been really amazing about is keeping the

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animation style of the character for the
universe that they're from and inserting into the

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mate that universe that they're telling the
story part in, and it just it

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looks so freaking good, and so
having an animated Miles and it's it's did

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you notice, like, um,
Donald Glover's character was like sitting down and

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he was the same size as Miles. Yeah, so like Miles is going

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to be tiny if he shows up
in MCU in the physical MCU. So

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who knows, but I guess,
yeah, I don't know what's next in

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another live actrition connection. And I
hadn't realized because I hadn't this is an

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MCU, This is Sony verse still, but that that scene and the Chinese,

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the like bodega with the little grocery
store, the Chinese woman from from

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Venom, Yeah, I didn't know
that was from Venom. I need to

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see that again, because they officially
established what Earth that is um in that

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scene. It was like Earth like
five three three or something, like that,

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and um, I need to watch
it against I can so I can

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ingrain that into my mind. That
was another thing is they use the same

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earth numbering system from the comics in
this movie. No that forget about that,

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because I thought that you had said
at one point that they that you

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were kind of annoyed that they'd established
that MCU is six, one, six,

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which is all the comic book universe, right, But here they said

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that the MCU I think they said
it was like nine. Yeah, so

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what's that about. That's the that's
the Earth that got established ten years ago.

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Um, it got labeled the MCU
universe got labeled as one nine nine.

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Um. Just I don't know why
because it's not like the MCU started

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in nineteen ninety nine or anything like
that. But like today, it's one

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of the it's one of the only
earth that has six numbers. Usually they'll

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do two, three or four digits
because there's plenty of numbers to go off

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of from that. Um. But
yeah, the idea that b MCU would

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be another six, one six is
that was actual red herring? Is that

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just not? That's what that's what
bugged so well? That's uh, this

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is where I This is where I
appreciate DC and how they do their Earth

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numberings, because each Earth has their
own perspective, and from their perspectives,

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they re number everything um and so
like there's a comment I forget which DC

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and made movie it is, but
like they're like, oh, so you

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guys are Earth three. Huh oh
too's see, you guys are Earth

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eight. That's kind of cool,
and like just yea, just that different

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perspective. But then in the comics, in them, in Marvel Comics,

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it's just this omni universal, omniversal
numbering system that everyone just agrees on.

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Everyone's like, oh, yeah,
I'm from Earth six one six, and

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across the board, we all know
that's the main comic universe. Oh I'm

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from Earth sixteen ten. Everyone knows
that's from the Ultimate Universe. And so

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like it's just this weird omniversal understanding. And so when the MCU came in

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and it's just like, yeah,
we consider you guys are at six one

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six. And they've said it twice
now. One was a made up story

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from quintin Back and then another one
was from Christine in Earth eight three eight,

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and they're both just like, yeah, you guys are six one six

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that it's a fun it can be
looked at as a fun Easter egg from

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like a fan's perspective. But at
the same time, if you are trying

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to put this into one Giant Spider
verse, like what what Spider verse is

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doing, what Miles Miles is doing, then you can't do things like that,

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right, Like I don't know,
it's it's a it's a strict non

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strict rule, just okay. So
there we have a conflict between what people

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in the MCU will be saying and
people in the sony but which is fine

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again because it might beat like it, which I like you're saying of that,

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Yeah, like everyone everyone's gonna be
using the same numbering system, so

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like, yeah, you know who
the heck knows. So let's talk about

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Well, actually I want to want
to go more on the animation and what

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you said, because I am really
blown away with how much they use the

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animation to tell the stories and not
as you said, it's the whole artistic

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style, like and he like,
let me you an example. I'm wondering

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if this is from the comic books. It's subtle, so it takes a

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little while to notice. So that
really becomes apparent in the scene with her

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father, but with Gwen, the
color scheme keeps changing based on the emotional

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character and it looks like like her
hair changes color until you realize that it's

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no, it's it's like different light
is being cast on her, and so

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like everything is like dark purples and
lose when she's super said, and then

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when she hugs her father and he
says like force for her. Um,

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you know, it becomes all sort
of super light and pasteli and amazing.

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Is that something from the Spider Gwen? Well, actually, I don't know

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if this term Spider Gwen is appropriate, but is that is that from this?

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It was? It was originally the
name of her title, even though

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in University Spider Woman, Um excuse
me, she has since changed her name

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to Ghost Spider So the latest title
she was in was called Ghostpider whatever.

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But yeah, Earth sixty five is
much more um artsy artistic in how they

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portray Um. The background, like
Gwen herself is always like all the characters

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are always very much there style.
They don't get like, they don't get

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pesteled over or anything like that in
the comic um but like they use lights

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a lot um and and like you
know, like I just think of in

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Earth sixty five, the universe that
Gwinn is from, Uh, Matt Murdock

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is the head of the hand,
and um, there's all kinds of scenes

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where he's on a rooftop and there's
like a giant Neon red light shining down

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on like on the situation. So
like so he's just like pasted in red.

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But like as far as showing emotion
and all that kind of stuff,

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it doesn't usually take over the character
like that. Um, and they're they're

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using they're saying there's something in the
environment to justify the lighting right right right,

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whereas this is just portraying the scene
and it's it's gorgeous and it it

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really kind of separates her universe from
Miles because like when the two of them

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are standing together, they kind of
look similar as far as animation style is

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concerned. And so when you go
to sixty or sixty five in Gwen's universe

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and having that emotional pastel that goes
over everything, it really differentiates between sixty

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five and sixteen ten where the Assembly
smiles from, which is Ultimate universe.

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But yeah, so that's slightly new
but similar similar about the different Yeah,

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I and so let's talk about Gwen
herself, because I want to. I'm

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kind of go through some of the
characters in worlds that we encounter here.

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The first one is very much a
Miles Morales movie, and this one is

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still you know, Miles Morales is
I think probably the biggest character, but

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be curious in his actual screen time
because certainly, like at this point,

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it feels like Gwen and Miles are
almost co protagonists at least, and certainly,

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you know, you get what ten
minute fifteen minute cold open that is

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just her in her world. How
did you feel about sort of how her

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story was played out and kind of
the way they focused on her so much?

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Um, it was it was a
little surprising, but it was.

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UM. I did kind of like
it because it took like the right amount

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of time. I think if they
glossed over it like they did in the

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like introduction like cuts that they did
in into, it'd be more of the

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same. And then it would also, um, I think it would jump

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into the story too quick because the
way they have it like this, it's

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kind of just like a flashback montage
but set up for being able to walk

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into this movie without having seen into
the Spider Verse. So you get an

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idea of the storytelling that they're going
to do, and you get that,

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you get into that mindset with a
with a origin story flashback. It kind

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of reminds me of like Up Have
the Like the first like ten minutes is

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all backstory to get you involved with
this character and what Carl and um it

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kind of cements your wanting to root
for Carl and so here you want to

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root for Gwen. And then that
plays into how the feeling, the feeling

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of betrayal that Gwynn and Miles have
when Gwen's like, I didn't know how

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to tell you and You're just like, ah no, it's just so many

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things. They did it so well
because I think like there were a couple

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of times and primarily between those two, but also a good deal between Myles

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and his mother where I was watching
two people have a conflict and I might

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have had my own personal opinion on
which one was right, but also knowing

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where both of them were coming from, I was super sympathetic to both of

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them and like I was like,
oh, Miles, it's so hurts.

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But I mean, even before that
that big reveal, maybe has crossed the

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line, but just where a lot
of like she's trying to protect him,

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she doesn't want to bring him to
this universe all this stuff. Like I

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know exactly where she's coming from too, I know how afraid she is about

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going back home where her dad wants
to arrest her. And like the way

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they set that up so that I
was sympathetic for both of them was just

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so powerfully done. Absolutely. I
also really liked that and here, hey,

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look we're getting a kind of like
one of the ethical things we're like

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talking about, but really all of
this is ethical in its own weird way,

278
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you know, mostly just because like
this movie should win every OSCAR.

279
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That's the ethical combination without hitting you
over the head with it, just because

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it was like we're going everywhere this
movie felt. It was like, look,

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we are going to take the diversity
representation idea and run with it so

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hard. And like, so we
got some of Gwen's backstory. We've not

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had many women characters in in comic
books, for sure, especially not in

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Marvel connected stuff. We went to
Spider Man India World, which I want

285
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to talk about for a while because
that was just incredible and a whole other

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thing it's barely been represented. And
then there were just the little things like

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having I got to see a Spider
character in a new wheelchair Sun Spider,

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no idea what was that person's name, Sun Spider. Last year, I

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had no idea how hard that was. Something like that would hit me,

290
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and it hit me so hard and
it just you know. And then there

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were little things like Miles had a
Black Lives Matter button that he was wearing.

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Gwen had a kind of blinking you
miss it, but there's a lot

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of like uh, pink white blue
colors in her stuff, and she had

294
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a trans Lives Matter flag, which
has got a whole people running off in

295
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different questions. Directions. Um,
I just thought the way that they were

296
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like, we're not gonna hit you
over the head with it. We're not

297
00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:07.400
gonna do like a stop the movie
so we can make a point, but

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we're really gonna broaden the representation in
a way that I mean, the Miles

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Morales was always about that obviously,
like the Black Spider Man, the Puerto

300
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Rican Spider Man. How do you
feel about your getting to see like so

301
00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:22.319
many different ideas of you know,
who Spider Man can be breaking out of

302
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its older white guys. Honestly really
excited because it's representation is everywhere in comics,

303
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but it's so rarely jumps from the
page onto the big screen, and

304
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even even in video games it doesn't
happen very often. Um, like you

305
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started Miles Morales, So what if
you're going to think, I was gonna

306
00:23:55.079 --> 00:23:56.839
point out, but you go ahead, Well, there's like there's the there's

307
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the character who's death and they signed
Miles knows asl and so they signed together

308
00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:08.079
and she shows up as like a
side character here and there. But then

309
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also, like in the terrible Marvel's
Avengers game story is amazing, it's just

310
00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:21.440
the execution was terrible. But there's
there are characters in wheelchairs, um that

311
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you can like walk around talk to
in the opening like training mission, and

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like that shouldn't be such a novel
thing to see because I see it all

313
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the time in the comics, But
the fact that there's like these one or

314
00:24:34.359 --> 00:24:40.720
two offs in video games is a
step in the right direction. And then

315
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you have the Spider Verse, where
it's so easy to just have any unrepresented

316
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community and give them a Spider power
and throw them into like the fact that

317
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Spider Man India, Spiderpunk, Sun
Spider even even like the t Rex Spider

318
00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:10.759
Man and Peter Parked Car Who's the
Spider Buggy, Like just like it steps

319
00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:15.440
into a little bit of audacity,
but at the same time, like just

320
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showing again this message of anyone can
be a hero and like to have them

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take the time to dedicate a speaking
line and a cam like an actual cameo

322
00:25:33.559 --> 00:25:38.480
spotlight appearance in these movies is such
a big deal and it's so great to

323
00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:42.759
finally see that it doesn't have to
be a statement like hey, we made

324
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the main character black, or you
know, just like all these things,

325
00:25:47.480 --> 00:25:52.759
it doesn't have to be these one
off changes that will anger some people because

326
00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:56.079
all you know, my character is
supposed to be white. But like in

327
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the Spider Verse, everyone is everything. Let it be. There's a couple

328
00:26:02.519 --> 00:26:03.440
of things I want to say that
first, in terms of the video game,

329
00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:06.200
what I thought we were going to
say. What I want to point

330
00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:10.000
out is that and it's a small
thing, but it's very significant. And

331
00:26:10.039 --> 00:26:14.640
really like listening to a lot of
Latino fans of the Latino Latino fans of

332
00:26:14.799 --> 00:26:19.000
the first movie really helped me see
this that most of the time when Spanish

333
00:26:19.039 --> 00:26:22.839
occurs on screen. Any foreign language
appears on screen, we see subtitles of

334
00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:29.759
the translation, and in the Spider
Verse movies Rio his mom and when even

335
00:26:29.759 --> 00:26:32.880
when he speaks Spanish back to her, it's never translated. Yeah, because

336
00:26:32.920 --> 00:26:34.880
it's much more of a like we're
not making this to say like, look,

337
00:26:34.920 --> 00:26:37.240
this is made for non Spanish.
It's like, no, this is

338
00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:40.480
just the universe. If you know
what they're saying, great if you don't.

339
00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:42.759
And then I started playing Miles Morales
and I realized they were translating the

340
00:26:42.799 --> 00:26:47.200
Spanish and it's a small thing,
which one more way in which the movie

341
00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:51.680
was pushing a little further forward.
The second thing that occurred to me as

342
00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:56.000
you were saying that was how like
when you think about representation, a lot

343
00:26:56.079 --> 00:26:59.400
of the time things will go to
is people will be like, oh,

344
00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:02.519
well, if that's true, if
you want like any kind of like superhero,

345
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why can't the superhero just be a
car or be a dinosaur. And

346
00:27:06.759 --> 00:27:10.400
the fact that they did that but
not in a way that made it seem

347
00:27:10.519 --> 00:27:12.519
like, Okay, we'll see this. This is showing that like Spider India

348
00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:17.200
and Spider Nueva York is just a
big joke. It was like, no,

349
00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:18.519
no, it works to be a
dinosaur, it works to be a

350
00:27:18.559 --> 00:27:21.960
car, it works to be a
lego, And that's all funny. But

351
00:27:22.039 --> 00:27:26.000
then when you go to India like
Mummetin, I think is the mumbaiment had

352
00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:30.279
Yeah, which also to me feels
very much like the same naming conventions of

353
00:27:30.359 --> 00:27:33.359
San Franco Kio. So I hope
there's a big Hero six reference somewhere in

354
00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:38.440
all of this. But I was
just so amazed by how they did that

355
00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:42.160
with so much like awareness that like
they made it funny. But then like

356
00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:47.240
all the stuff about India really felt
to me like and I've searched for that

357
00:27:47.359 --> 00:27:49.000
in TikTok this morning and saw people
being like, yeah, this feels like

358
00:27:49.119 --> 00:27:52.119
you know what Miss Marvel felt like
for our other South Asian you know friends,

359
00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:56.519
Like this really feels an amazing representation
in everything from just the character the

360
00:27:56.680 --> 00:28:00.759
look, to like the jokes about
Chai and and like oh here's the museum

361
00:28:00.759 --> 00:28:04.119
where the British to all of our
stuff like oh my god, that drop.

362
00:28:06.039 --> 00:28:12.960
I was just like yo, no, even the thing about like oh

363
00:28:14.079 --> 00:28:15.799
wait, Peter, Peter B.
Parker, like you come to our NBA

364
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:19.319
land to come, you know,
find enlightenment, don't you. I think

365
00:28:19.359 --> 00:28:22.440
the line was it was so much
laughter it was hard to hear, But

366
00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:25.960
I think the line was don't you
dare live, Live, Live, pray

367
00:28:26.079 --> 00:28:33.400
love us? You know? Yeah, that though, And I'm curious if

368
00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:34.920
you saw this the same way,
because again, maybe it's just referencing common

369
00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:41.039
things I didn't understand, but I
know that when you get those things.

370
00:28:41.079 --> 00:28:44.680
And we're seeing this even right now
with all of the Ariel you know,

371
00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:49.839
the incredible black actress playing Ariel in
the new live action Little Mermaid, but

372
00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:53.240
also like when Miles Morales came out, going all the way back to when

373
00:28:53.319 --> 00:28:57.400
Donald Glover was first suggested as uh, like did you know the whole story

374
00:28:57.400 --> 00:29:02.160
about Donald Glover and Miles Morale us, Oh, that he wanted to play

375
00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:06.000
he wanted to play Spider Man,
and a whole bunch of people like,

376
00:29:06.039 --> 00:29:08.240
oh, you can't do that.
And a writer who was like following this

377
00:29:08.480 --> 00:29:11.480
was like, why can't there be
a black Spider Man? And so he

378
00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:14.759
started writing Miles Morales. So having
Donald Glover in this is so good to

379
00:29:14.839 --> 00:29:18.839
begin with. But also like,
so you've got all these comments that are

380
00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:22.200
always about like no, you can't
do that. It breaks cannon. You're

381
00:29:22.279 --> 00:29:29.440
changing cannon and sort of have the
whole plot be the Giles basically being told

382
00:29:30.200 --> 00:29:33.799
you are wrong, that you being
a spider Man is breaking cannon. And

383
00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:37.759
that's the thing. I was like, once again, this should be so

384
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:45.759
this should feel like like I liked
the the New Ghostbusters movie quite a lot,

385
00:29:45.319 --> 00:29:48.759
but and I liked that they kind
of leaned into the critique that people

386
00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:53.400
had about women Ghostbusters, but it
felt like it was really like, you

387
00:29:53.480 --> 00:29:56.000
know, lamp shaded hitting you over
the head with it. Here it felt

388
00:29:56.079 --> 00:30:00.720
much more subtle. Yeah, but
still it Maybe this was just me,

389
00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:03.319
but I wondering if you are the
same. I walked away from this being

390
00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:10.920
like they very intentionally said that the
whole concept of like representation or a black

391
00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:14.200
spider Man or all this is like
you shouldn't have it. It breaks cannon.

392
00:30:15.160 --> 00:30:17.640
And they very intentionally We're like,
okay, then, well actually we're

393
00:30:17.640 --> 00:30:22.720
gonna make Kennon the literal enemy in
this. Um damn No, I didn't.

394
00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:29.720
So I didn't have that perspective.
Um as far as far as like

395
00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:38.400
a commentary on on cannon, um, for me, it's it. It

396
00:30:38.519 --> 00:30:48.480
felt like they're diving into the untold
like reality of Spider Man and the fact

397
00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:55.319
that like by being Spider Man,
well in reference to like Peter Parker in

398
00:30:55.359 --> 00:31:00.440
the main universe, by being Spider
Man, Peter Parker always loses, and

399
00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:10.200
the idea that being a Spider means
losing more than you want to. And

400
00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:15.039
when you have a new hero like
Miles who's only been doing it for about

401
00:31:15.079 --> 00:31:19.920
a year and a half now,
he hasn't had well, he's had he

402
00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:26.079
had his quote unquote Uncle Ben moment
with Uncle Aaron dying, but he hasn't

403
00:31:26.119 --> 00:31:33.400
had the same amount of loss and
character growth for lack of a more sensitive

404
00:31:33.400 --> 00:31:41.920
phrase as the other Spiders. And
it becomes a a an opportunity to look

405
00:31:41.960 --> 00:31:45.039
at the strength of character of each
Spider Man by how they deal with the

406
00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:52.920
hardships that they've been given. And
that has always been a like staple of

407
00:31:53.880 --> 00:32:00.240
looking at of the strength of character
that Peter Parker has in how he has

408
00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:07.799
taken his loss and still done the
right thing. So and then you get

409
00:32:07.839 --> 00:32:10.880
this, you know, bright eyed, bushy tailed, brand new Spider of

410
00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:15.920
just like dude, I can save
everyone? Are you kidding me? I'm

411
00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:21.839
really scared of what he's going to
have to learn in beyond the Spider verse.

412
00:32:22.759 --> 00:32:24.720
Especially, I realized they did it
a second time because also a bright

413
00:32:24.799 --> 00:32:30.720
eyed, bushy tail, this is
so easy, was Spider Man India right?

414
00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:35.519
Because he hadn't had his awful ben
he is Gwen's father character died yet.

415
00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:38.640
And I'm very curious where they're going
to go with the next one,

416
00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:42.839
because yeah, I mean, I
to me, the next one where the

417
00:32:42.839 --> 00:32:45.480
answer if if I'm right about the
whole idea of thing, that cannon is

418
00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:47.799
the enemy here, because you're you're
right, it may well be that like

419
00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:51.519
that the point is that, no, you have to have some kind of

420
00:32:51.559 --> 00:32:54.920
a loss. But to me,
like I remember conversations we've had with Paul,

421
00:32:55.720 --> 00:32:59.359
one of the reasons why Paul was
kind of getting a little sick of

422
00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:01.240
a lot of the MC movies was
that there was always this kind of cynicism

423
00:33:01.400 --> 00:33:06.240
of like, you can't save both, you have to you're going to lose

424
00:33:06.319 --> 00:33:08.480
someone, you have to walk away
from the girl, whatever it is.

425
00:33:09.799 --> 00:33:13.799
And so I kind of love it
if we did break that about what if

426
00:33:13.880 --> 00:33:16.720
you don't have to have even more
tragedy in your life? What if you

427
00:33:16.839 --> 00:33:23.039
can have a healthy romantic relationship and
still be a Spider person. But you're

428
00:33:23.079 --> 00:33:27.000
right, it's set up in a
way that I like, Miguel is clearly

429
00:33:27.079 --> 00:33:30.200
not a good character. Like there's
you know, well there if you want

430
00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:36.640
to really dive into it, Peter
B. Parker's whole plot line of him

431
00:33:36.720 --> 00:33:40.200
being like, Listen, I thought
I was screwed, and by meeting you,

432
00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:45.480
I was inspired to try and now
I have. Now I have made

433
00:33:45.519 --> 00:33:49.480
a Parker and I've patched things up
with Mary Jane. She supports me.

434
00:33:49.680 --> 00:33:54.880
She understands what being a Spider is, and so, um, maybe maybe

435
00:33:57.319 --> 00:34:01.480
Miles is that catalyst to the rest
of the Spiders and he becomes the new

436
00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:06.000
you know Miguel of leading the rest
of the Spiders. Of just like that

437
00:34:06.039 --> 00:34:13.280
could be so good you can actually
win. Yeah, um, that would

438
00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:15.519
be very interesting and I would love
to see that. Absolutely, that would

439
00:34:15.519 --> 00:34:19.440
be great. That would be great. I did love may Day so much,

440
00:34:19.519 --> 00:34:22.960
like see Adorable. There's so much
you did in this movie that I

441
00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:29.400
just don't think would be possible in
live action exactly. So I just had

442
00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:32.840
that conversation of just like, we
don't need I don't part there's a part

443
00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:37.519
of me that doesn't want live action
Spider Man movies, Like, yeah,

444
00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:38.840
no, I think so, I
think that's fair. I think I think

445
00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:43.239
I like the like I wouldn't mind
if they did a bit of the Roger

446
00:34:43.320 --> 00:34:45.880
Rabbit with something like you know,
Donald Glover gets to be in this in

447
00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:49.559
some way, but like, yeah, continue it with but it's like the

448
00:34:49.639 --> 00:34:52.960
Roger Rabbits side, where it's we're
all in Tuneville, you know. Yeah,

449
00:34:53.119 --> 00:34:57.840
And like I think, now that
they've shown they have that technology,

450
00:34:57.960 --> 00:35:00.960
I'm guessing we'll go and spend the
least a little time and a live action

451
00:35:00.119 --> 00:35:05.480
universe. That would be wild.
I'm very down for that. It'd be

452
00:35:05.559 --> 00:35:07.519
fun to see. It'd be fun
to see. And yeah, and I

453
00:35:07.960 --> 00:35:16.440
certainly wouldn't mind if in some in
some uh you know, MCU project of

454
00:35:16.519 --> 00:35:20.039
some kind a little bit of this
popped up. You know, I don't

455
00:35:20.079 --> 00:35:22.840
want it to be like a full
like I don't want to have to go

456
00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:25.960
back into the MCU to finish the
Spider Verse. I kind of love.

457
00:35:27.239 --> 00:35:30.039
I think right now the Spider Verse
is the best Marvel thing out there,

458
00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:32.920
and I'm kind of glad it's not
like I still am enjoying a lot of

459
00:35:34.760 --> 00:35:38.280
the mcu. I thought Guardians was
fantastic. I started Quantum Mania and after

460
00:35:38.360 --> 00:35:43.960
four minutes turned it off because I
was so bored um. So like I'm

461
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:45.400
I'm aviously mixed, and many people
are much more fans of it, and

462
00:35:45.559 --> 00:35:49.920
so that's awesome. But I saw
your status on it. You were you

463
00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:52.960
were not happy with it. Didn't
get I didn't. I didn't want to

464
00:35:53.000 --> 00:35:57.320
set you up for failure. But
it's it's not it's not a mind blowing

465
00:35:57.360 --> 00:36:00.599
movie at all. But this,
like, I mean, I still have

466
00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:02.800
my visual acuity problems. I still
don't know if I can actually get through

467
00:36:02.840 --> 00:36:07.920
it, but I this makes me
want to read a comic book because it's

468
00:36:07.960 --> 00:36:15.440
just that's exciting, like just like
like the blue exclamation points going across the

469
00:36:15.519 --> 00:36:20.519
screen as he's like screaming, and
yeah, so let's focus on that.

470
00:36:20.559 --> 00:36:22.800
Because you're the expert and I love
having on for this. Talk to me

471
00:36:22.960 --> 00:36:30.119
about what parts of this are from
actual comic books. Oh Man, First

472
00:36:30.119 --> 00:36:32.840
of all, pre because on some
hand, like if you have a movie

473
00:36:32.880 --> 00:36:37.000
called into the Spider Verse and then
you do a comic book, that to

474
00:36:37.119 --> 00:36:42.519
me, and then things from that
comic book appear on screen, that feels

475
00:36:42.519 --> 00:36:44.920
a little like, Okay, we're
already in the interconnected universe, and I

476
00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:47.679
want to get to those things.
But what are things from pre like what

477
00:36:47.920 --> 00:36:52.920
was in the comics before this Spider
Verse into the Spider Verse stuff started that

478
00:36:53.000 --> 00:37:00.719
we're seeing on screen here. Okay, so oh this is this is tough

479
00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:06.800
because the characters that show up in
this book called Edge of Spider Verse.

480
00:37:07.480 --> 00:37:13.000
Um, this book came out last
year, and so were they working with

481
00:37:13.760 --> 00:37:17.480
the studio to show some new spiders
who are going to show up in Across

482
00:37:17.559 --> 00:37:22.920
Spider Verse. I don't know,
So I can't. I can't just flat

483
00:37:22.960 --> 00:37:27.920
out say that like Peter Parked,
car Sun Spider, Uh, Spider,

484
00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:34.039
t rex Um and the others that
were introduced in Edge of Spider Verse came

485
00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:37.679
out before Across Spider Verse. They
were publicated first. But who knows anyway,

486
00:37:37.880 --> 00:37:45.920
So um um published after the first
movie? Yes, yes, so

487
00:37:46.239 --> 00:37:52.119
here's so here's one. So Spider
Verse first published in twenty fourteen, way

488
00:37:52.199 --> 00:37:57.480
before into the Spider Okay, so, which I'm actually going to read on

489
00:37:57.920 --> 00:38:02.440
um on my twitch to night,
but that's people are gonna miss it anyway.

490
00:38:04.239 --> 00:38:12.400
Um So Penny Parker uh in the
comics she has this like uh neon

491
00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:21.039
Genesis Evangelion looking uh uh Spider um, and it was very different from what

492
00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:25.320
we got into the Spider Verse.
And then in across the Spider Verse in

493
00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:34.519
her cameo, she has that same
like lanky, upgraded version of s It's

494
00:38:34.840 --> 00:38:42.079
sp slash slash d R. It's
just Spooter um. But um, so

495
00:38:42.320 --> 00:38:46.800
she's so yeah, it's mecha Spider. And so she has the comic book

496
00:38:47.280 --> 00:38:52.760
design now, which was which was
fun to see. Um the numbering of

497
00:38:52.840 --> 00:38:58.920
all the earths, Um, those
are accurate to the comics um now,

498
00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:07.480
not necessarily obviously, but like these
are definitely different stories of these earths,

499
00:39:08.280 --> 00:39:14.079
right, Um, like the death
of Chris Pines Peter Parker in in Miles

500
00:39:14.360 --> 00:39:17.239
Miles Earth is very different, um, and the age is very different.

501
00:39:17.320 --> 00:39:22.880
And then um, Earth sixty five
is is Gwen Earth? I think it's

502
00:39:22.159 --> 00:39:30.440
five H one O one is um
uh Puvatier proba cars uh Spider Man India?

503
00:39:30.039 --> 00:39:35.760
Um, those are India that existed
before. Yes, he was introduced

504
00:39:35.840 --> 00:39:38.920
back in the twenty fourteen Spider Verse. And now was that pub was that

505
00:39:39.039 --> 00:39:43.159
like just published in India or is
that just part of the English language like

506
00:39:43.360 --> 00:39:51.639
no part main main story UM introduced
in in in American comics. UM So

507
00:39:51.840 --> 00:40:00.199
Spider Man India was a mini series
standalone alternate universe Spider Man that they did,

508
00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:04.880
UM just kind of randomly, and
then they and then when they did

509
00:40:04.960 --> 00:40:08.320
Spider Verse, they brought him in
same as like this, there's there's like

510
00:40:08.440 --> 00:40:14.320
six Marvel sixteen oh two, which
you know Marvel Universe reimagined in the early

511
00:40:14.480 --> 00:40:19.719
early sixteen hundreds. Nick Fury is
like the head of security for the Queen.

512
00:40:20.480 --> 00:40:23.880
UM. Oh, so is that
what Renaissance era like Leonardo da Vinci

513
00:40:24.119 --> 00:40:30.880
Vulture was from. So that one
I think I think he was from.

514
00:40:30.599 --> 00:40:42.239
Uh this steampunk version of UM of
Marvel where Lady Spider is um the Spider

515
00:40:42.280 --> 00:40:49.679
of that universe and UM Vulture and
Electro has a giant like a battery pack

516
00:40:49.760 --> 00:40:55.719
on his back. UM and uh, that universe is super like steampowered,

517
00:40:57.480 --> 00:41:01.760
um your typical steampunk idea, gears
everywhere and all that kind of stuff.

518
00:41:02.800 --> 00:41:06.840
But that was so much fun to
see. And then you also see Lady

519
00:41:06.920 --> 00:41:13.400
Spider in one of the like pans
of their main like hub area. She's

520
00:41:13.440 --> 00:41:16.920
walking around talking to one of the
spiders. UM. UM Spectacular Spider Man,

521
00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:22.920
the animated guy. Um he's you
know, he's from the TV show,

522
00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:28.159
not necessarily comics, but um,
I also just have to have to

523
00:41:28.280 --> 00:41:31.079
throw out there as we're talking about
oversonal things that happened. Uh, Tom

524
00:41:31.159 --> 00:41:38.000
Holland's uncle Ben moment is yes there
and like his actual uncle Ben um,

525
00:41:38.239 --> 00:41:43.079
but it's it's Tom Holland from the
back, but it's like skinny lanky boy.

526
00:41:43.480 --> 00:41:49.079
And there's three that you know,
you clearly see Ben Toby McGuire and

527
00:41:49.079 --> 00:41:52.159
you clearly see Andrew Garfield. And
there's a third live action one on the

528
00:41:52.280 --> 00:41:57.679
right side, um on the web
connected to the Spectacular Spider Man Uncle Ben

529
00:41:57.800 --> 00:42:00.199
moment. And you're just like,
because that's the first time we've seen that.

530
00:42:01.199 --> 00:42:06.000
And did you see that in his
um room, in his dorm room

531
00:42:06.039 --> 00:42:08.880
at Brooklyn Visions, which he's playing
Spider Man. He's playing the Spider Man

532
00:42:09.039 --> 00:42:15.800
game and then and then he shows
up and then he shows up Insomniac Spider

533
00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:22.280
Man is also okay. Oh,
so one difference is uh, Earth zero

534
00:42:22.400 --> 00:42:28.360
zero zero is called loom World,
and that's where the Web of Life and

535
00:42:28.440 --> 00:42:30.519
Destiny was created, and that is
connected to all the rest of the Earth's

536
00:42:31.079 --> 00:42:37.840
that's typically where the Spiders use their
base of operations. This is not the

537
00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:47.079
same this because this was out running
out of um, Miguel's Earth, right,

538
00:42:47.360 --> 00:42:53.559
Um yeah, we have a York
in twenty ninety nine, twenty nine

539
00:42:53.679 --> 00:42:58.360
nine, UM, and so that
was slightly different. One cool thing is

540
00:42:59.679 --> 00:43:05.079
in the when when Miles and Gwen
go to meet Miguel for the first time.

541
00:43:05.440 --> 00:43:12.119
In the background, UM, there's
like a white and red suit being

542
00:43:12.280 --> 00:43:17.760
like made in the middle of being
designed. That is Miguel O'Hara's second Spider

543
00:43:17.880 --> 00:43:22.639
suit that he has for like two
storylines, and he decides he has one

544
00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:24.320
anymore, and so he goes back
to the blue. But like that's just

545
00:43:24.360 --> 00:43:28.440
a little like fun little homage too. So he's also a character and a

546
00:43:28.480 --> 00:43:30.599
lot of these things. Oh yeah, dude, Miguel O Harris everywhere.

547
00:43:31.119 --> 00:43:38.000
UM. Spiderpunk Hobie Brown was introduced
in twenty fourteen, UM in a world

548
00:43:38.079 --> 00:43:42.360
that's just like, um, fight
the Machine kind of a thing, and

549
00:43:42.440 --> 00:43:46.079
he's like the leader of the Assistance, and like they took his personality from

550
00:43:46.119 --> 00:43:52.679
the comics and just ranted up to
twenty in the mos with his artistic style

551
00:43:52.760 --> 00:43:55.239
because I don't know the right terms. I might be wrong with it.

552
00:43:55.920 --> 00:44:00.719
I think these are the right terms. It felt like he was too animation

553
00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:05.760
with everything else being three D animation. And it's yeah, that kind of

554
00:44:05.800 --> 00:44:09.519
true to his his his an the
way there's drawn in the comics, um,

555
00:44:12.880 --> 00:44:19.280
not really so in the in the
comics, especially in the first version

556
00:44:19.320 --> 00:44:23.079
of the comics. The first like
Spider Verse, Um, there's not like

557
00:44:23.440 --> 00:44:29.199
the artistic style of that universe.
They don't really do that. Um.

558
00:44:29.880 --> 00:44:32.280
And with the exception of like this
Earth is barren and so it's going to

559
00:44:32.320 --> 00:44:37.480
be run down, or this Earth
is radioactive and so everything's dead, but

560
00:44:37.679 --> 00:44:42.559
like it's all the same artist doing
everything, so they don't have these like

561
00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:50.559
extreme uh visuals like all that.
And Spiderpunk. Actually, Spiderpunk just got

562
00:44:51.719 --> 00:45:00.320
his own title. UM, let
me see, I have it obviously here

563
00:45:00.320 --> 00:45:08.599
it is so spider Punk Battle of
the Band, and yeah, his his

564
00:45:08.920 --> 00:45:15.199
art style is sort of like that, but no one here. You're showing

565
00:45:15.239 --> 00:45:19.480
this up for us on radio.
I'm showing you, sir, we're on

566
00:45:19.639 --> 00:45:27.360
camera together. But uh yeah,
so his universe has a style now,

567
00:45:27.719 --> 00:45:31.760
But when he was cameoing in other
Spider Verse titles, UM, they don't.

568
00:45:32.159 --> 00:45:37.920
They do not do that. Like
Spider Man Noir is um personally black

569
00:45:37.960 --> 00:45:39.920
and white, but that's because he's
wearing a black trench coat in like a

570
00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:45.679
leather you know, black leaves and
stuff. But he's not astounded by color

571
00:45:46.079 --> 00:45:50.519
and existence of it. But that's
you know, I have no problem.

572
00:45:50.559 --> 00:45:52.840
I have no problem with him taking
that, just running with it, you

573
00:45:52.920 --> 00:45:55.199
know. Oh yeah, Oh it's
so cool. One of my favorite lines

574
00:45:55.239 --> 00:46:00.599
from the first movie is Peter Porker
asking someone, like, I almost talk

575
00:46:00.639 --> 00:46:04.480
in this universe? Is going to
be right? Yeah? It's yeah,

576
00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:07.559
so much fun. Another the comic
question. I kind of brought this up

577
00:46:07.559 --> 00:46:12.119
earlier, but I'm curious that this
is actually a thing. So Spider Man

578
00:46:12.199 --> 00:46:15.840
India exists in Mumbaten, which is
I say it's a comic. It's like

579
00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:20.159
it's an alternate universe in which there's
this city that's kind of a combination of

580
00:46:20.280 --> 00:46:24.920
Mumbai and Manhattan. Yeah. Big
Hero six occurs in something similar San frans

581
00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:30.719
Sokio, a combination of San Francisco
and Tokyo. Is there any connection between

582
00:46:30.760 --> 00:46:34.000
those two stories and comics in terms
of them both being part of the same

583
00:46:34.119 --> 00:46:37.039
like alternate universe series or is that
just like a convention that they go to

584
00:46:37.199 --> 00:46:40.599
every now and then and the two
aren't related except that they're both in comics.

585
00:46:42.280 --> 00:46:45.559
That's just kind of their thing.
It's I can I don't know what

586
00:46:45.800 --> 00:46:50.000
earth Big Hero six takes place,
and because it is a Marvel property,

587
00:46:50.199 --> 00:46:57.719
as you're alluding to, but it
is I I strongly do not believe that

588
00:46:57.880 --> 00:47:01.440
they are the same Earth as as
Earth five O one on one right.

589
00:47:01.599 --> 00:47:07.880
Um, uh, I could look
it up. Well, I'm not.

590
00:47:07.039 --> 00:47:09.079
I don't think of the same Earth. I just wonder if there was like

591
00:47:09.280 --> 00:47:15.320
like a particular run of comics where
they imagined a lot of Earth cities being

592
00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:22.760
totally different. Oh so, I
mean tips usually because like, um,

593
00:47:23.159 --> 00:47:29.079
basically because for some reason, ninety
eight percent of the Heroes and Marvel are

594
00:47:29.119 --> 00:47:32.280
from New York and so if you're
going to tell an alternate universe, uh,

595
00:47:32.599 --> 00:47:37.199
you're gonna base it in something New
York esque. Uh. And so

596
00:47:37.280 --> 00:47:40.719
that's sort San Francisco as the Bigger
Sixes. But yeah, yeah, but

597
00:47:40.800 --> 00:47:45.599
then so it looks like that's new
because Big Hero six in the Marvel comics

598
00:47:45.800 --> 00:47:52.360
is actually just uh it's in six
one six, So um, there isn't

599
00:47:52.400 --> 00:47:59.559
a San Francilcio. Interesting. Interesting, So there one are the things about

600
00:47:59.599 --> 00:48:06.800
the movie you want to bring up? Um oh man, So okay,

601
00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:14.719
I'm really curious. Um one of
the to go from the comics to jump

602
00:48:14.800 --> 00:48:19.920
into where I'm about to say about
the movie. In the comics Ghost Spider,

603
00:48:20.360 --> 00:48:23.480
Spider Gwyn, Spider Woman, She's
the only hero in that universe.

604
00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:30.440
Like this, her universe, Earth
sixty five doesn't have superheroes. And I'm

605
00:48:30.760 --> 00:48:38.119
curious if Earth forty two, this
Earth without a Spider I'm curious if that's

606
00:48:38.159 --> 00:48:43.880
an Earth that doesn't have heroes,
because, like into the Spider Verse and

607
00:48:43.880 --> 00:48:46.719
across the universe and across the Spider
Verse, we've only seen it from the

608
00:48:46.800 --> 00:48:52.440
perspective of Spiders and their rogues gallery. There's never there has yet to be

609
00:48:52.480 --> 00:48:57.719
a cameo of a non Spider Man
car, which I don't expect there to

610
00:48:57.800 --> 00:49:02.639
be, honestly, but I'm the
factor he is. Gohea, I'm sorry,

611
00:49:04.119 --> 00:49:07.000
I'm just I'm curious if a world
without Spider Man is going to be

612
00:49:07.079 --> 00:49:13.280
considered a world without heroes. That's
and that that alone might be a good

613
00:49:13.320 --> 00:49:15.719
reason why there's not Well, actually, hold on back up a second.

614
00:49:15.719 --> 00:49:17.719
Because I was going to say that
for the most part, you're right,

615
00:49:17.800 --> 00:49:22.400
and that might be a good reason
why to keep all of these things out

616
00:49:22.519 --> 00:49:28.000
of the MCU type things. But
they did mention Doctor Strange. They're not

617
00:49:28.239 --> 00:49:31.679
Strange, so so yeah, maybe
if there's this idea like six one six,

618
00:49:32.039 --> 00:49:36.360
because certainly all the Spider people seem
to act like, yeah, there's

619
00:49:36.400 --> 00:49:38.719
no Captain America, there's no Avengers, there's no X Men, it's just

620
00:49:38.920 --> 00:49:45.079
Spider people as the only superheroes out
there. MCU seems to be the only

621
00:49:45.679 --> 00:49:52.639
Spider who has an Avengers and Doctor
Strange so far, right, because Toby

622
00:49:52.719 --> 00:49:55.000
and Andrew are like, what are
the Avengers? Yeah, no, exactly,

623
00:49:55.119 --> 00:49:58.559
So yeah, I wonder if that's
the idea, is that six one

624
00:49:58.679 --> 00:50:01.559
six? Is that completely weird world? Again, this breaks with one division

625
00:50:01.679 --> 00:50:06.119
established or a Doctor Strange and the
multiverse established, But again it's because we're

626
00:50:06.119 --> 00:50:08.639
two different studios and this is fine. But yeah, certainly all of these

627
00:50:08.719 --> 00:50:13.639
Spiders seem to come from a perspective
of this is the only kind of superhero

628
00:50:13.719 --> 00:50:17.280
that's out there, So that'd be
an interesting like world bending um talking about

629
00:50:17.440 --> 00:50:24.519
size and perspective. So I got
a little like man, but also kind

630
00:50:24.519 --> 00:50:31.519
of excited when they showed the multiverse
right the like the like the light blue

631
00:50:31.599 --> 00:50:37.000
strand roots branch representation of the multiverse
that we have seen in like low key

632
00:50:37.400 --> 00:50:42.480
and all these other things. And
so he's just like, this is reality

633
00:50:42.559 --> 00:50:45.559
or whatever. And then he goes
and this is the web of life and

634
00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:49.920
destiny and it's like eighty five times
that size, and he goes around all

635
00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:52.800
of the multiverse and just like,
oh, yes, spiders are cool.

636
00:50:54.559 --> 00:50:58.199
So let me ask you this because
and this maybe can be our last kind

637
00:50:58.199 --> 00:51:02.360
of big question. But here's the
ethical question. If we take for granted

638
00:51:02.760 --> 00:51:07.920
what Miguel certainly seems to understand,
and thus Gwinn certainly seems to understand while

639
00:51:07.960 --> 00:51:10.159
she's still working with him. Oh, actually no, let me back up

640
00:51:10.159 --> 00:51:14.679
a second. Okay, so I've
got a big ethical question. But first

641
00:51:14.719 --> 00:51:16.440
one more comic book question. Because
we've talked about Hobie, We've talked about

642
00:51:16.480 --> 00:51:21.719
Miguel, We've talked about India Spider
Man. What about Motorcycle Spider Woman.

643
00:51:22.159 --> 00:51:25.159
Is she a thing? Oh no, get her name? So, yeah,

644
00:51:25.239 --> 00:51:32.039
Jessica Drew. So her costume design
and her being pregnant are both pulled

645
00:51:32.280 --> 00:51:38.000
from a Spider Spider Woman solo title
from a few years ago. In six

646
00:51:38.079 --> 00:51:44.119
one six okay uh and six one
six, Jessica Drew is a white woman

647
00:51:44.320 --> 00:51:53.079
brunette um and she actually gets a
donor for her pregnancy UM and so there's

648
00:51:53.159 --> 00:52:00.079
like two volumes about ten issues where
she is pregnant and trying to um you

649
00:52:00.159 --> 00:52:02.239
what she can to not get involved
in superhero fights, but always gets pulled

650
00:52:02.280 --> 00:52:08.639
into superhero fights. But so but
changing her into a black woman, an

651
00:52:08.639 --> 00:52:15.480
African American woman riding a motorcycle that's
new and that's totally fine. Yeah,

652
00:52:15.719 --> 00:52:17.000
no, it was awesome. I
totally loved it. I loved her character.

653
00:52:19.559 --> 00:52:22.440
Oh, but then also giving her
the organic webbing from her fingertips that

654
00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:30.320
has been done Silk has that in
six one six, Silk is a second

655
00:52:30.360 --> 00:52:34.239
person to be bitten by the same
spider that bit Peter Parker. It's a

656
00:52:34.280 --> 00:52:42.119
whole comic books anyway, but she's
the only other Spider I've seen in recent

657
00:52:42.320 --> 00:52:47.119
memory that shoots the webs from her
fingertips as opposed to like wrist ye.

658
00:52:49.000 --> 00:52:51.280
I will say, the one of
the things that I really want to see

659
00:52:51.440 --> 00:52:53.519
at some point in these movies and
I wonder if it's happened in the books

660
00:52:53.599 --> 00:52:58.000
yet, because again, as you
said, they're pushing representations so hard.

661
00:52:58.679 --> 00:53:01.599
If some kind of conversation where you
know, Miles is meeting people and I

662
00:53:01.679 --> 00:53:04.280
was like, oh, yeah,
this is a spider man, this is

663
00:53:04.280 --> 00:53:06.639
a spider woman, this spider woman, this is a spider man, and

664
00:53:06.719 --> 00:53:12.480
there's one person who's like, I'm
just a spider person. Spider reputation,

665
00:53:12.639 --> 00:53:15.000
you know, that would be really
cool. Now, we haven't had that

666
00:53:15.119 --> 00:53:21.159
yet. We've had spiders Man,
who is thousands of spiders and high consciousness,

667
00:53:21.559 --> 00:53:24.360
but we have not had a spider
person. Yeah, all right,

668
00:53:24.400 --> 00:53:28.199
so here here, here, let's
an ethical podcast. Let's hit us with

669
00:53:28.280 --> 00:53:37.280
a real ethical question. Sure,
is Miguel right if if Miles going back

670
00:53:37.639 --> 00:53:45.159
will cause the entire breakdown of his
world and possibly of all of reality,

671
00:53:47.239 --> 00:53:53.119
is Miguel wrong to just physically stop
him? If then no, But I

672
00:53:53.239 --> 00:53:58.000
do not believe he's right, don't
I don't believe that his assumption is correct,

673
00:53:58.440 --> 00:54:00.719
not necessarily right in the from an
ethical perspective, But I don't think

674
00:54:00.840 --> 00:54:09.199
that his because he's upset that Miles
took the place of Crispine. Peter Parker

675
00:54:10.519 --> 00:54:16.599
because he became a Spider Man,
and so the world corrected itself in having

676
00:54:16.880 --> 00:54:27.480
only one Spider per universe. So
the questions, but Octavia and what is

677
00:54:27.519 --> 00:54:31.960
his first name? Jonathan owned who
who turns into spot? They pulled a

678
00:54:32.119 --> 00:54:37.920
Spider from a different universe and brought
it over here, which removed the cannon

679
00:54:38.039 --> 00:54:44.679
event for Earth forty two, but
created a new cannon event for sixteen ten.

680
00:54:45.079 --> 00:54:52.840
What I don't understand, and what
Miguel should be thinking about, is

681
00:54:52.920 --> 00:54:58.440
that Earth forty two still exists a
year and a half later. Why is

682
00:54:58.480 --> 00:55:02.920
Earth forty two still around if it
lost its spider cannon event? As we've

683
00:55:02.960 --> 00:55:15.800
already established that immediately after they saved
Um Peter Pavteers Uncle the giant hole,

684
00:55:15.320 --> 00:55:21.119
the universal whole dimensional holds started showing
up and started falling apart, Earth forty

685
00:55:21.159 --> 00:55:25.599
two is still around. So we
have an Earth without a Spider that that

686
00:55:25.760 --> 00:55:30.960
lost its spider it's cannon event.
Unless forty two was always supposed to give

687
00:55:31.039 --> 00:55:37.280
its spider to sixteen ten, why
is that universe still around? So,

688
00:55:38.599 --> 00:55:45.159
and along those lines, I don't
understand why Miguel hanging out in the universe

689
00:55:45.239 --> 00:55:52.440
where that universe's Miguel passed away.
I don't understand why that universe had to

690
00:55:52.519 --> 00:55:59.719
fall apart if he broke his own
cannon. But he didn't die. So

691
00:56:00.119 --> 00:56:02.119
there's there's Those are some of the
questions that I have going into the next

692
00:56:02.199 --> 00:56:10.280
one. But if if the prep, if Miguel's perspective is correct, then

693
00:56:10.400 --> 00:56:15.760
I believe that he is acting correctly. But I do not think that his

694
00:56:15.920 --> 00:56:20.000
perspective is right. And here's the
thing. I just wish the character,

695
00:56:20.199 --> 00:56:23.119
some of the one of the characters
had pointed that out in some way because

696
00:56:23.920 --> 00:56:28.920
and here's where I know I'm going
to go against the what always happens in

697
00:56:29.360 --> 00:56:31.000
Marvel movies, because, among other
things, this is my I think Nick

698
00:56:31.039 --> 00:56:37.119
Fury at the end of Avengers is
wrong. Often what will happen is someone

699
00:56:37.159 --> 00:56:43.559
will say, from all of the
evidence, you cannot do both of these

700
00:56:43.639 --> 00:56:49.199
things. And so we have to
understand that letting one person die or the

701
00:56:49.280 --> 00:56:52.960
small group die, in order to
save this much larger group in this die

702
00:56:53.039 --> 00:56:59.239
or dire circumstance is the right choice. And um like again, that can

703
00:56:59.280 --> 00:57:01.440
become you to Terryanism, and that
can become we're going to actively kill this

704
00:57:01.599 --> 00:57:05.639
group to say this much larger group. You got to be super careful of

705
00:57:05.719 --> 00:57:07.920
it. I'm not saying it's always
oppressive, but I'm open to the idea

706
00:57:08.000 --> 00:57:13.199
that that is sometimes the thing.
And what always comes up in it not

707
00:57:13.239 --> 00:57:17.119
always. What often comes up in
these movies is our hero saying I know

708
00:57:17.320 --> 00:57:20.960
you think I can't do it,
and I'll be honest, I don't have

709
00:57:21.000 --> 00:57:22.840
any idea how I'm going to do
it, but I have hope that I

710
00:57:22.920 --> 00:57:28.000
can do it, and so you
should trust me, and your trust in

711
00:57:28.119 --> 00:57:32.400
my hope should allow you to put
at risk every longest number of people.

712
00:57:32.519 --> 00:57:40.000
Yeah, and like if you have
very little I haven't watched Avengers in a

713
00:57:40.039 --> 00:57:45.760
long time, and so I'm just
using that as a general example. If

714
00:57:45.880 --> 00:57:51.039
you have no evidence to believe that
anything except nuking New York will prevent the

715
00:57:51.119 --> 00:57:54.360
destruction of the entire world, as
horrible as it is, I think I

716
00:57:54.519 --> 00:57:59.159
lean towards nuking New York as a
New Yorker who loves that city more than

717
00:57:59.199 --> 00:58:02.679
anything in the world, Like stan
Leevey stan Lee and Jack Kirby, if

718
00:58:02.719 --> 00:58:05.920
I wrote if I lived in New
York City all my life, of course

719
00:58:05.960 --> 00:58:07.760
I would write that everything happens in
New York, because, as I said

720
00:58:07.800 --> 00:58:10.400
in Keeping the Faith, I think
anyone who isn't living in New York some

721
00:58:10.519 --> 00:58:17.760
inst kidding, but and here even
more so. And again maybe that's what

722
00:58:17.840 --> 00:58:21.599
they're showing us, is that,
like, like, I appreciate it that

723
00:58:21.639 --> 00:58:25.000
they never full on made Miguel villainous. They didn't make him like mohaha evil.

724
00:58:27.400 --> 00:58:30.159
I think what they were showing is
kind of like him and him and

725
00:58:30.280 --> 00:58:35.440
Gwen from Miguel's perspective, if we
were in Miguel's shoes, we probably make

726
00:58:35.480 --> 00:58:37.159
the choice he does. If we're
in Miles's shoes, we probably make the

727
00:58:37.239 --> 00:58:40.519
choice he does. And I to
me, that's really good storytelling, is

728
00:58:40.559 --> 00:58:44.679
that they're kind of in that ethical
like, yeah, we're not saying what

729
00:58:44.800 --> 00:58:47.440
I think the audience is supposed to
probably sympathize with Miles, and we're rooting

730
00:58:47.480 --> 00:58:52.800
for Miles, but it's not so
far we don't obviously know that Miguel is

731
00:58:52.840 --> 00:58:54.760
wrong. So actually, maybe as
I said that, maybe it's better that

732
00:58:54.800 --> 00:58:58.599
we don't have it pointed out.
I think I just talked to myself out

733
00:58:58.639 --> 00:59:05.360
of my original opinion there No,
but I mean, just like putting yourself

734
00:59:05.400 --> 00:59:10.800
in Gwen's shoes in in Moonbatten of
just like, hey, Gwen, by

735
00:59:10.840 --> 00:59:15.079
the way, a cannon events about
to happen, and she's like, okay,

736
00:59:15.800 --> 00:59:22.480
like I accept this impending loss of
a fellow Spider's family member, this

737
00:59:22.719 --> 00:59:27.519
is this is the way, Yeah, and her trying to stop Myles.

738
00:59:27.559 --> 00:59:30.280
So it's just like if she knows
it's going to happen, like you'd think

739
00:59:30.559 --> 00:59:36.480
as a hero, you're going to
try to stop that, right, And

740
00:59:36.559 --> 00:59:39.360
so yeah, cannon events are interesting. I sort of think got the sense

741
00:59:39.440 --> 00:59:44.920
that she didn't have the full picture
of it until towards the end, because

742
00:59:44.920 --> 00:59:46.760
there else she probably would have occurred
to her that her cop father was also

743
00:59:46.840 --> 00:59:52.360
slated for death. She I got
the impression she accepted that, kay,

744
00:59:52.480 --> 00:59:58.960
like that was part of bringing her
in of just like all Captain family members,

745
01:00:00.039 --> 01:00:04.639
especially all Captain Stacy's, are going
to die earth In Earth sixty five,

746
01:00:05.320 --> 01:00:10.760
Captain Stacy is still alive in the
comics, He's still around. But

747
01:00:13.559 --> 01:00:17.920
yeah, I mean it's kind of
one of those is I think fatalist Gwen

748
01:00:19.039 --> 01:00:24.079
Stacy has accepted that that's going to
be her reality. And I think part

749
01:00:24.119 --> 01:00:29.119
of it is because she looks up
to Jessica drew so much, and Jessica

750
01:00:29.199 --> 01:00:31.719
told her that it has to be
like this. Yeah, that makes sense.

751
01:00:32.599 --> 01:00:35.880
All right. My last question for
you, and this is going to

752
01:00:35.960 --> 01:00:37.599
tie into a big thing you do
in another part of your life that you

753
01:00:37.639 --> 01:00:40.880
can tell people about. But we'll
start with a question. As someone who

754
01:00:40.960 --> 01:00:45.719
is a twitch stream specifically about Legos, how did he feel about going to

755
01:00:45.880 --> 01:00:51.079
Lego Spider Verse. That was so
cool? That was so unexpected, and

756
01:00:51.280 --> 01:00:52.920
that's I mean, so much of
this movie is unexpected, but that was

757
01:00:53.000 --> 01:00:59.280
so much fun. And the fact
that he's already in the in the team

758
01:00:59.360 --> 01:01:04.079
and he's got his little watch,
and the like my one like oh man,

759
01:01:04.679 --> 01:01:08.159
was that they didn't use the Daily
Bugle Lego set. That would have

760
01:01:08.199 --> 01:01:14.400
been a perfect like placement. But
I think it's because two things. One,

761
01:01:14.960 --> 01:01:16.119
the Lego set, it was probably
too small for what they wanted to

762
01:01:16.199 --> 01:01:21.320
do, like as far as like
footprint. But then also, um,

763
01:01:21.880 --> 01:01:24.920
I don't think the Daily Bugle Lego
set has a bathroom for Pete to go

764
01:01:25.039 --> 01:01:32.559
and hide in and reach out to
Miguel. But I bet they they probably

765
01:01:32.599 --> 01:01:40.159
had that conversation. There's no way
that that these story writers who think about

766
01:01:40.800 --> 01:01:45.239
as much as they have did not
consider the Daily Bugle Lego set, but

767
01:01:45.320 --> 01:01:49.280
that was that was so much fun. I love that they did that and

768
01:01:49.559 --> 01:01:53.800
that they kept spots original animation.
Um, and and they do that across

769
01:01:53.840 --> 01:02:00.559
the entire freaking movie. But like
even just something as as for seconds in

770
01:02:00.679 --> 01:02:08.039
a Lego stop motion universe, they
still had animated spot being just like,

771
01:02:08.639 --> 01:02:12.960
uh, this isn't right. I'll
be uh okay, I'll see you guys

772
01:02:13.000 --> 01:02:16.719
later by Yeah, so what fun
it was? Yeah? Just like I

773
01:02:16.760 --> 01:02:21.239
mean, we didn't even talk about
like the Black Girl Avatar. We didn't

774
01:02:21.239 --> 01:02:24.239
talk about like the Spider Bite.
Yeah, yeah, it's so good.

775
01:02:25.039 --> 01:02:29.079
Oh there's also you know we didn't
get is we didn't get Spider Man,

776
01:02:29.679 --> 01:02:34.239
who is anton made with the Spider
powers? Oh my god. Okay,

777
01:02:34.440 --> 01:02:36.920
see this is why I'm so mad
that the movie's not out online yet because

778
01:02:36.920 --> 01:02:40.199
I want to go watch it like
ten more times and down like right now

779
01:02:40.239 --> 01:02:44.119
people are doing stuff of the trailers, but I really can't wait for like

780
01:02:44.239 --> 01:02:47.400
TikTok once it's online and people are
just doing like frame by frame youtubes and

781
01:02:47.480 --> 01:02:51.639
tiktoks and all that. Well,
speaking of Legos, well, it's been

782
01:02:51.639 --> 01:02:54.320
awesome having yawned. People want to
hear more about you. I'll talk to

783
01:02:54.360 --> 01:02:58.239
them about where they can hear you
talk about legos, and even more importantly,

784
01:02:58.280 --> 01:03:00.960
where they can hear you talk about
Marvel comics. Absolutely so um,

785
01:03:01.880 --> 01:03:05.920
Twitch dot tv, slash, Silver
Dreamer, soil. We're with a why

786
01:03:06.760 --> 01:03:09.920
During the week, I build lego
and building block sets. Um. Actually,

787
01:03:09.960 --> 01:03:15.440
this coming week I'll be building a
giant lego or giant building block Bumblebee.

788
01:03:15.800 --> 01:03:17.880
It's like a foot and a half
tall. It's gonna be super fun.

789
01:03:19.519 --> 01:03:22.880
Um. An actual Bumblebee or the
transformer Bumblebee transformers Bumblebee. Okay,

790
01:03:23.320 --> 01:03:29.599
uh yeah, in his robot form, he does not transform foot and a

791
01:03:29.599 --> 01:03:32.920
half tall Bumblebee insect would be terrifying, and I would love it. It

792
01:03:32.960 --> 01:03:36.920
would absolutely be terrifying. There are
some that are a few inches big,

793
01:03:37.119 --> 01:03:40.800
but I haven't bought one yet.
Um uh. And then on Sundays,

794
01:03:42.000 --> 01:03:45.440
I also read Marvel comics. It's
against tls, but I'm too small to

795
01:03:45.480 --> 01:03:51.000
be caught, so so I do
read Marvel comics onstream, and I try

796
01:03:51.119 --> 01:03:55.440
to choose the comic that has the
most ado with something going on in the

797
01:03:55.880 --> 01:04:00.159
movies or whatever. So we just
recently did Secret Invasion and up next or

798
01:04:00.239 --> 01:04:04.360
doing Spider Verse. I don't know
what we're going to do next, but

799
01:04:04.480 --> 01:04:09.320
that's been a lot of fun,
So follow me on Twitch there. My

800
01:04:09.440 --> 01:04:14.039
other big thing is that I have
a podcast called Hype is My Superpower.

801
01:04:14.440 --> 01:04:17.840
Me and my buddy Steve. We
both read way too many comics and we

802
01:04:17.960 --> 01:04:23.079
talk about it. Yeah. I
stream the recording on Twitch as well,

803
01:04:23.519 --> 01:04:27.079
so if you find me there,
you will see us go live on Sunday

804
01:04:27.079 --> 01:04:33.599
afternoons and we're going to be talking
about AX Judgment Day, which is something

805
01:04:33.679 --> 01:04:39.599
that we are reaching out to you
and Paul for having a guest on our

806
01:04:39.639 --> 01:04:42.320
pot and that's gonna be super fun. Yeah. I've been a guest on

807
01:04:42.360 --> 01:04:44.920
their Pot of Bunch and I listen
to their Pot of Bunch. I think

808
01:04:44.960 --> 01:04:46.360
if you love comic books, it's
really good. But also for me,

809
01:04:46.480 --> 01:04:49.599
as someone who doesn't like I said, it's just hard for my brain to

810
01:04:49.599 --> 01:04:55.280
wrap myself around that media. I
have such a good experience listening to your

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01:04:55.320 --> 01:04:59.119
podcast if you explain the comics and
then talk about them in ways that even

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01:04:59.119 --> 01:05:00.960
though I haven't read it like,
I can totally follow along. So check

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01:05:01.039 --> 01:05:03.239
out both of those things. We'll
linked to both those in the show notes,

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01:05:03.320 --> 01:05:08.079
and of course this is an Ethical
Panda podcast. You can find this

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01:05:08.199 --> 01:05:12.519
podcast and Star Wars Universe podcast,
my other one, both of them at

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01:05:12.639 --> 01:05:15.599
the Ethical Panda dot com. You
also find them wherever you can find podcasts.

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01:05:15.880 --> 01:05:17.920
Most importantly, though, we want
to know what you think. Send

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01:05:18.000 --> 01:05:20.519
us your feedback. What do you
think of this movie? Do you love

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01:05:20.599 --> 01:05:24.360
it? If some reason you didn't
like it, we'd love to hear that

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01:05:24.400 --> 01:05:26.800
too, though, I'd be you
gotta make a good case because I'm gonna

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01:05:26.800 --> 01:05:30.519
be kind of surprise. Everyone gets
to have their tastes. Let us know

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01:05:30.599 --> 01:05:31.800
what you think. We'd love to
hear from you. Would love to hear

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01:05:31.800 --> 01:05:35.760
all the feedback. So all that
is on the Ethical Panda dot com and

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01:05:35.840 --> 01:05:39.840
it's also all on the show notes. So I'm about myself. Will thank

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01:05:39.880 --> 01:05:42.360
you all so much. It's been
a crazy week, so there's not gonna

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01:05:42.360 --> 01:05:44.760
be the Patreon content, which I
apologize for, but we'll get back to

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that soon. Thank you all so
much, and have a great day. By