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Welcome to Destiny. Now here's your
host, Cliff Dunning. This is an

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important week. It is the beginning
of the Spring Equinox, which means that

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the days are not only longer and
sunnier, but everything is in a growth

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spurt, in a connecting to Gaya. The spring Equinox is officially with us.

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So happy Spring Equinox to you,
and that means that you should be

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bright eye, bushy tail, and
ready for action. Whatever that means.

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Hey, welcome to Destiny. We
got a good one this week. I

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have been looking for a ayahuasca shaman
an awascadero as they're known. Most of

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them do not speak English very well, and I have talked to a couple

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of people, and then I ran
across a gentleman from England named Alan Francis

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Waugh, who has written a book
Alchemical Ayahuasca. And he is somebody who's

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worked with Graham Hancock and others quite
closely. In fact, he has led

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shamanic ceremonies with Graham a number of
times, and he used to be based

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here in northern California. I didn't
really know if I haven't used or done

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an ayahuasca journey that plant medicine.
We've talked a great deal about it here

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on the program, but I wanted
to have someone speak not only on journeying

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with ayahuasca, but I wanted somebody
to talk about the mixture, what can

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be expected when you use ayahuasca,
who should use it, who should not

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use it, because there's some conditions
that are not suited for an ayahuasca journey.

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And we'll learn about this today.
But I mean, we've had recently,

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we've had Graham Hancock speak on his
ayahuasca journeys and his use of it.

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What I didn't know, and I
found this about out from Alan today,

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is Graham's been using ayahuasca for over
twenty years and he started going to

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Peru in the early two thousands.
And it's funny to his wife Santa apparently

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also uses ayahuasca. But ayahuasca is
a very powerful plant medicine that shifts you

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out of your conscious awareness and depending
on how you intend to use the plant

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medicine, journey can bring you into
focus on what your goals are. For

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a lot of people, it's great
for health dealing with health issues if you

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have if you've been given a prognosis
of cancer, if you have certain health

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conditions, this can be in a
realignment, not necessarily for a full body

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healing, but it can put you
on a path to healing body, mind,

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and spirit. And I've heard and
I've talked to people who have had

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deep, deep depression, who have
had crisis in their life, tremendous traumas,

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either through childhood, a bad relationship, or just in general. They've

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gone through a trauma and they've gone
in a an ayahuasca journey and they've come

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out much better, much cleaner,
much folk, more focused. And this

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is leading to the whole phenomenon of
microdosing these plant medicines. Now I have

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heard about microdosing ayahuasca. I don't
know how in the heck you do that,

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but I do that. But apparently
it's you can under certain conditions.

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I have heard of microdosing DMT,
cannabis, LSD, and other psychotropic drugs.

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And here in Northern California it's become
a quite a popular way to enhance

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the creativity to work on depressive states
of mind, people who are clinic what

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they call clinically depressed. And apparently
in that case there is some great,

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great reform. There's also I mean
reform from heavy medical medications. But when

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it comes to creativity, this is
something to look at. Microdosing plant medicines

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maybe something in that's going to happen
in the future, And it's hard to

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say what the results are because everyone's
different. I don't know if Rick Strassman.

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By the way, Rick Strassman's going
to be on the show. He

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wrote the DMT book almost ten years
ago now, and he's actually working on

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another book on clinical studies of microdosing. But we've had people on this program

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speaking on DMT therapy and the benefits
of it. So what does the future

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hold. This is a way to
change the brain's chemistry in a more positive

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manner. Now, controlling the plant
medicine's effects is what's really the question.

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How do we control it if you
give somebody, If you give one person

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a certain dosage of ayahuasca and you
give another person the same amount, it's

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two different reactions. So how do
we test for this? We really don't

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know. We just don't know.
So I mean, this is why Strausman

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and others who are working with DMT
in a clinical setting are really the pioneers

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on using this more effectively. Now
the software. The software whenever you use

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a psychotropic drug or any type of
plant medice that can be like I said,

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cannabis and I've written extensively about this, LSD, DMT or ayahuasca.

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The software, the activating premise,
The activating tool is intention, and when

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you set an intention before going on
a journey, you actually open your system,

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your body, your mind, and
your spirit to experiencing an event around

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that intention. In other words,
I want to understand more about my inner

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self. Okay, that's the software. You're activating that with ayahuasca, and

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for the most part, the grandmother, the overseers of the plant medicine are

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going to tune your journey towards that
goal of having more understanding, more healing

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around that situation. Now, when
it comes to chronically ill conditions, this

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is where the real magic happens,
because our brain and our body and our

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mind set up certain conditions. And
some of this can be from previous lifetimes.

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In other words, somebody could have
chronic illness, could have a form

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of cancer. Some of it is
passed on from parents, in other words,

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genetic disposition towards a certain illness,
and when you go into a journey,

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you can realign that and you may
not have an immediate withdrawal of a

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cancer or a rheumatoid arthritis or another
degenerative disease, but you can have a

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realignment of the brain that sets up
a healing that sets up a realignment of

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the cancer as cells, so that
it's not your body is not continuing to

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produce cancer, it's producing other types
of healthier sales. So we have a

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lot to learn, we have a
lot to experience, and on today's program,

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we're gonna hear from a shaman who
has worked with thousands of people on

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ayahuasca journeys. Before we do that, here's a quick insight from Graham Hancock

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on what ayahuasca journeying is all about. An Ayawaska journey is complex and difficult

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process. First off, the physical
effects. Ayahuasca is a beverage. It's

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a it's it's it's it's a brew, and it's it tastes and it's absolutely

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disgusting. It is. It is
hard to imagine a more horrific and unpleasant

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taste, and you have to brace
yourself physically and mentally before pouring this beverage

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down your throat. I certainly do. It's very very very hard work.

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Secondly, within about half an hour
to an hour of drinking the brew,

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most of us start to feel pretty
ill. You're vomiting, you have diarrhea.

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It's a most physically, a most
uncomfortable ordeal that you have to go

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through before the powerful visionary effects that
begin to take place. And those visionary

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effects typically have two levels, one
of them concerned what you might call personal

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development. You know, in the
Amazon, they believe that there is an

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intelligent spirit that lies behind eawas because
they don't think they're dealing with just plants,

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and who are we to say they're
wrong? That the Shamans believe that

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an intelligent entity, a spirit being
lies behind the aahuasca beverage, and that

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and that she and they always regard
her as a as a female presence,

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that her business is the planet and
the betterment of human beings. Strange idea,

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huh that that this is? This
is what they believe in the Amazon,

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and they know damnslight more about it
than than than we do. Well.

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One of the ways this works is
that Iahuascar will typically show you your

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own life in an extremely clear and
unconfused way. You know, normally,

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we protect our own behavior with all
sorts of little personal explanations and reasons for

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why we behave in the way that
we do. Iahuascar will show you absolutely,

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clearly and honestly really why you behaved
in the way that you did.

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Sometimes you may have been mean or
harsh to another person and past that offers

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absolutely the right thing to do under
the circumstances, Iowaska will show you it

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was the wrong thing to do.
It will show you that anger and ego

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and arrogance and pride in your own
personality are not serving you and are not

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helpful. And it will keep teaching
you these lessons again and again and again,

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showing you starkly and honestly how you
are until you start fixing your behavior

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and improve the way that you function
in the world and work hard to become

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a less toxic and more positive person. Iahuask has done this for me,

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and it's done it for countless other
people who I know. It's a mystery,

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but there it is. It puts
you through that psychological process where you

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actually start examining your own life and
asking questions about the way you behave.

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By the way, if if you
want to hear more about Graham's plant medicine

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journey. He has a book called
Visionary that has all the details of his

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work and his experience on plant medicines. So today's program is al Chemical Ayahuasca

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take the Journey from Depression to the
Sweet Spot, and my guest is Ayahuasca

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and Shaman Alan Francis Waugh. We've
discussed the ceremonial elixers out there, DMT.

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We've had doctor Strassman with us,
We've had Graham Hancock speaking a great

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deal about ayahuasca and DMT, but
we haven't had what is considered a expert

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or a shaman on the program.
And today we are really fortunate to have

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an author who is also a shaman
who works exclusively with ayahuasca. And it's

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funny because when we had Graham on
the program earlier in the year, one

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of my questions was what is the
importance of using ayahuasca? And he went

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into a very long and specific,
detailed explanation of not only its benefits,

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but also what he felt was the
use of ayahuasca for an evolutionary journey,

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not only in getting in touch with
your own higher level and other levels of

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reality, but also how it perhaps
evolves us and refines our existence. My

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guest today is Alan Francis Will.
He has written a fascinating book called al

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Chemical Ayahuasca, Take the Journey from
Depression to the Sweet Spot. And not

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only does Graham endorse this book,
but after reading it, not only is

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it a personal journey of Alan's youth
and through present day activities, but it's

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a great introduction to the use of
ayahuasca. And this is really really critical

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because there are a lot of people
out there who are discussing and using ayahuasca,

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and actually there's people who are what
they call shamans who use ayahuasca in

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group setting and they don't necessarily do
a good job of it, and this

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is a problem. So Alan,
welcome to Destiny. Great to have you

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on the program. Yeah, thank
you, Cliff, I appreciate you calling

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me up to appear on your show. Talk a little bit about Graham.

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How long ago did you meet with
him in sanpa and when did you start

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working with him on journeying with ayahuasca. Yeah. I met Graham originally about

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ten years ago, and the way
I met him was because I was leading

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ceremonies in California, primarily California and
Peru. And I have a mutual friend

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of Graham's son who lives in Los
Angeles, and we found out that Graham

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was coming to LA and my friend, so, would you be willing to

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lead a ceremony guy Graham and his
family, like a family ceremonial evening?

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And they asked Graham if that's what
he wanted, and he said yes,

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And so I went down there.
My friend has a house in Beverly Hills,

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and yeah, I showed up,
met Graham and I knew what knew

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of him, of course, you
know, being very famous and a brilliant

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writer. And so I went down
there and we did the ceremony, and

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you know we've been in such ever
since. Yeah, amazing. Now you've

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been trained to prepare your own elixir. I'm just gonna call it. But

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are there different strains that you can
conceive or are they all one formulation and

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you just use what you get?
Yeah? In my case, I have

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prepared it. I have sources in
Peru and Brazil that I would buy it

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from, because to get the raw
ingredients for I was going, it's very

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difficult. You know, you need
a lot of it to produce a small

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amount of ayahuascar, so it's very
difficult, very expensive to get it shipped

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from through and it's all you know, because it's a plant material, it

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at raises red flags. So I
would get the mid the ay oscar scent

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from relocal sources. And yeah,
ayahuascar does come in a variety of different

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forms, as there are different types
of ayauscar, primarily four different types.

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But it's also the ad mixture,
so ayasca generally comes most famously comes with

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the ayahuascar vine, So it's a
vine that creeps around a tree, and

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it's a plant that contains d MT. Right, and the most famously and

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most commonly used plant is Chakruna psychatry
O verridis, But there's also a variety

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of different admixtures. Chaliponga is another
one that's used. So the effects of

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it will be different. And having
said that the effects of the same eyeuasca

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will be different from night to night, the effects of the eyeuascar are different

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according to who made it, at
what time they picked the eyeuasca cut the

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eye oscar, at what time they
picked the leaf, more specifically the leaf,

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because the chemistry of the leth will
change throughout the course of the day.

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So typically it's picked the female leaf
is picked before you know, just

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around sunrise, and then that's not
done. The effects will be different.

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And also you know how it's made, the reverence that it's made. I

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recently, in the last sort of
three years, actually get We've been getting

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my medicine from Brazil through the Santa
Dimie Church in Brazil, and it's the

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sweetest medicine I've ever had, and
they pray over it for three days.

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The men and the women are praying
and singing and playing music for three whole

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days over that medicine, and you
can really tell it's the most beautiful brew

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I think I've ever experienced. You
know, now you're in Ecuador. Does

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it grow on Ecuador or do you
have to get the plant in the medicine

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in Brazil. No, it grows
in the Amazon, so that we have

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the Amazon here in Ecuador. So
it's interestingly enough, I still use the

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Brazilian medicine here because it is so
beautiful. Unfortunately, I just ordered a

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bunch and it didn't make it.
It was destroyed by customs, So I'm

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going to have to do my own
sort of journey into Brazil to get it.

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You know, there's there's a variety
of different types of medicine here depending

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on the tribe that's making it.
They have their own processes in making it

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and distilling. But one of the
fascinating things about ayahuasca your listeners might be

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interested to hear, is how did
it come about? You know, so

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there's a view that it's been around
for you know, least ten thousand years

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is and it's two very definitely distinct
plants. One is ayahuascar the vine which

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ayahuscar translates with the wine of the
soul in Quechua, and chakruna, which

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is the most commonly used what's known
as an admixture. But you know,

201
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they're very distinct to each other.
How did somebody choose these two plants from

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you know, the corner copia of
one hundred thousand plants that are in the

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Amazon jungle macerate the vine. You
know, you can press the leaves,

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add them to a big pot of
boiling water and boil it for eight hours,

205
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stirring and preying over it, wait
for it to cool, and then

206
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drink it. So that's the mystery
of it, and tribes we're doing that

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throughout the Amazon jungle without contact with
each other. So that's a fascinating aspect

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of it. It's it's pretty obvious
that the plant themselves told the shamans that

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lived in those environments. You know. Graham feels that there's a some kind

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of a consciousness that is the ayahuasca. I think it's kind of an entity,

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is what he suggests it is.
What do you say about that?

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Would do you say that there is
a consciousness that is developed or is it

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just there? And this brew intensifies
it. The Brew allows you to access

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that consciousness. So there is a
conscioussciousness. There's there is a shamanism or

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animism. More broadly, it has
a belief that everything is alive, everything

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has consciousness. So you know,
the ancient challenge would say yes, it

217
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has consciousness because it's it's something.
You know, the rocks have consciousness,

218
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the clouds have consciousness. To access
the consciousness and the vibratory state that ayahuascar

219
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will will share with you, you
know, combined with the other plants,

220
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can can only really be at access
through drinking it. I mean you can,

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you can you can feel it.
You can hold a piece of oyosco

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bind and at some level engage with
it, but you're not going to have

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the profound experiences that you will once
you've drunk it in the ceremony. And

224
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again the ceremony is a bit important
part of drinking ayahuascar. To drink it

225
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just you know, like at burning
Man, which a lot of people have

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started doing, is a very different
experience of doing it in a in a

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sort of very highly you know,
train with a highly trained person who really

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knows how to maneuver that landscape.
And so my terms of consciousness, Hihoscar

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is my greatest teacher. You know, I have had many human teachers of

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shamanism. In the ninety five,
I think I started learning Ayauascar has given

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me my deep training that I used
to help other people to receive the benefits

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of ayahuasca without drinking it. So
I offer healing work you incorporating a lot

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of the wisdom and the deep teachings
of healing so that other people don't need

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to drink ayahuasca. So I've learned
all that from a lot of that from

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Ayahuascar. It's herself. I think
about that a little bit later that the

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according to you, you don't really
needed to use ayahuasca. There's techniques that

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you can what would you say,
access the higher levels of consciousness that are

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that are part of that journey or
how would you describe what you've discovered.

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Yeah, well, there's a beautiful
quote that in a way it was life

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changing for me that was attributed to
Einstein, Albert Einstein, which says,

241
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you probably know it. You can't
solve a problem with the same level of

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consciousiness that created it in the first
place. So one of the things that

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is that people seek how Eyewa's goer. Now you know, this has become

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very common. I think I've read
recently two million people in the world have

245
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now drunk eye what's going to including
the indigenous, So it's spread fore and

246
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wide. Why do people need to
drink eywascar because there's some way in the

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life that they haven't been able to
transcend or transform issues that they have.

248
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Some people are doing it just for
the experience and for a badge of honor

249
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because they're friends of all doing it. Most people that receive deep healing are

250
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doing it with a uh, you
know, graceful intention to have some transformation,

251
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transcendent, transcendent experience that will give
them opportunities to change something in their

252
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life they haven't been not to be
able to up to this point. And

253
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because it's not it's not for the
fainthearted, you know, you really have

254
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to be prepared for this experience mentally
and emotionally. And so the spirit of

255
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the plant, it's it's a mystery
how it works, but the spirit of

256
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the plant will help you to He'll
help you to transform and transcend, you

257
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know, energetic conditions that are cause
you used to stay in a sort of

258
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more repressed version of yourself. And
so Aauoscar has shown me how I can

259
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help people to do that, because
you've probably heard that with the Ayahuascar,

260
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there's a big purging process involved in
great detail. Yeah. Yeah, So

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a lot of people are put off
by the thought of doing that, but

262
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it's actually you know a big part
of the process. What's happening in as

263
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you purge, is that you're releasing
physical poisons. You're releasing mental emotional poisons

264
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and toxins. It's also antibacterial,
so parasitic and anti paralyitical, so you

265
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release a lot of that stuff,
a lot of it, some of it

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is physical, some of it is
mental, some of it is spiritual,

267
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so you have your purge and all
this stuff out. You can't do that

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without the likes of ayahuasca, except
you can do it now because she has

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shown me how to help people to
do that. I do the sucking.

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I suck out those densities that otherwise
you would have to purge with ayahuascar.

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So she showed me how to do
that. So that's that's how people can

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receive the benefits of ayahuascar without necessarily
even having to drink her. We're going

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to talk about that towards the end. Let me just mention that you have

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Chris calm as a somebody who's endorsing
the book. Has anyone looked at ayahuasca

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from the purging what that means?
What's being purged to it's I mean scientifically

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tested. I think a Grossman did
DMT in a great deal of strassman excuse

277
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me, uh, to a great
deal. But has anyone done, to

278
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your knowledge, any great studies in
ayahuascar yet? Uh, they are doing

279
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great studies on ayahuascar. Yeah,
they're they're actually the Santadmi in Brazil that

280
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they sort of have done a lot
of data collecting through psychologists and botanists to

281
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really understand what's happening. There's there's
a big church movement in the hotel,

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so that they've been looking at it, and more recently Western scholars and scientists

283
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have been looking at it so that
they're doing you know, like ekg's and

284
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things like that to see what actually
happens to the brain on Ayahuascar. You

285
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know, my my own personal relationship
to Ayauscar is very non scientific. You

286
00:28:48.079 --> 00:28:52.440
know, I don't really care about
data. I I you know a lot

287
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in the facts. It's really hard
to explain what what the full process is.

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You know, the post is a
big part of it, as I

289
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mentioned, And when you've actually gone
through this process of purging, it's very

290
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much coordinated to things that you know, you're you're seeing your or you're experiencing

291
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in your body, and you know
you reject it in the form of vomit,

292
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diarrhea, tears, laughter, crying, yawning. There's there's many different

293
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ways that you do post. The
most commonly known ways are through the upper

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orifice and the orifice and it's always
allays. I always do so ingratitude and

295
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thank you grandmother. Now no,
now, now I can choose my moment

296
00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:45.079
when I purge, really, I
don't want to, especially if I'm leading

297
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ceremony. I tend not to purge
in ceremony. I tend to wait until

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after the ceremony is over. So
I said, say not not not the

299
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grandmother, thank you, thank you. So it's a very you know,

300
00:29:56.720 --> 00:30:00.000
close connection. You know, if
you drink a lot, she's she becomes

301
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a really valued friend and counselor your
subtitle, Take the Journey from Depression to

302
00:30:07.680 --> 00:30:15.079
the sweet Spot is a look at
your life as a young person into your

303
00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:22.079
adulthood. Let's talk about that.
You open the book discussing a life of

304
00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:30.200
depression, self hate, and just
not being a very happy person. These

305
00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:37.839
challenges are self destructive to a great
deal, but you seem to have an

306
00:30:37.839 --> 00:30:41.200
awareness, and I want you to
talk a little bit about this as a

307
00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:45.200
young person, that you don't have
to stay in this problem. You can

308
00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:52.160
move beyond it. Talk a little
bit about that. Yeah, okay,

309
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Well, you know, the book
starts when I'm twenty eight years old,

310
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and it was the day that i
wanted to kill myself. I was chronically

311
00:31:02.960 --> 00:31:08.240
depressed and I saw no, you
know, no future joy for me in

312
00:31:08.279 --> 00:31:11.160
my life. Up to that based
on the last previous twelve years of my

313
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life. And so there's two factors
that why I chose to move out of

314
00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:22.599
that or was able to move out
of that depressive state. I knew at

315
00:31:22.599 --> 00:31:26.200
some point I was able to move
out of it. The first thing that

316
00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:32.839
really changed my relationship to my own
awareness personal awareness. Growing up in a

317
00:31:33.160 --> 00:31:38.319
very sort of Christian family, taught
by nuns in grade school and monks in

318
00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:44.200
high school. I was very much
blinkered by the Christian sort of indoctrination,

319
00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:48.839
and so I wasn't even allowed to
question reality outside of Christian or of belief

320
00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:52.839
systems, and that was part of
the reason for my depression. Actually,

321
00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:56.079
you know that that's another is moved
about that in the book. But so

322
00:31:56.119 --> 00:32:00.240
what I started doing is I started
taking ALSD when I was about seventeen,

323
00:32:00.319 --> 00:32:04.400
and I me and my friends would
do it really just a sort of as

324
00:32:04.440 --> 00:32:07.880
a party drug, you know,
we just go around friend's houses and take

325
00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:13.960
LST sort of a lot of the
weekends of the year. And I started

326
00:32:13.960 --> 00:32:16.160
realizing very quickly, well, there's
a whole different reality out there was another

327
00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:21.720
the reality that I had been taught
by the Christian monks, and the priests

328
00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:24.119
excuse me. And so that was
one thing. I started to becoming a

329
00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:28.839
critical thinker as a result of that, and I had a more expanded view

330
00:32:28.839 --> 00:32:35.480
of who God was. And it
didn't actually help me to lose my depressive

331
00:32:35.480 --> 00:32:38.880
states, but in some ways it
actually took me deeper into depression. I

332
00:32:38.920 --> 00:32:45.279
became much more insular and introverted.
I couldn't in a ways decide see for

333
00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:51.640
me, was really difficult to maneuver, and I became quite a loner.

334
00:32:52.599 --> 00:32:54.880
And so I decided to stop taking
the age of about twenty one, I

335
00:32:54.880 --> 00:33:01.240
started taking Steve. I started pretty
soon after that. I have what I

336
00:33:01.240 --> 00:33:07.359
thought was flashbacks or meditation experiences where
I was just started at will. I

337
00:33:07.359 --> 00:33:13.680
could enter this portal with my mind
where I could journey to other realities and

338
00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:19.079
out into the cosmos and fly past
planets and things like that, And so

339
00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:22.039
I thought it was part of growing
up. I didn't talk. There's somebody

340
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:25.160
that didn't talk about what was going
on with me. I had learned to

341
00:33:25.160 --> 00:33:29.240
do that in my family, to
not really talk about my feelings, et

342
00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:31.559
cetera. I didn't talk about it. I just thought I was meditating.

343
00:33:31.640 --> 00:33:34.240
I thought it's just cool, you
know, so I do it. I'm

344
00:33:34.240 --> 00:33:38.839
just meding if i'd go and I
realized, you know, I found out

345
00:33:38.920 --> 00:33:43.920
later that that was shamanic journey.
So that's kind of why I started on

346
00:33:43.960 --> 00:33:46.839
the path of shamanism as a result
of those elicited experiences. But the other

347
00:33:46.880 --> 00:33:52.119
thing is that day when I was
twenty eight years old. I write about

348
00:33:52.119 --> 00:33:54.720
this in the book I was done
though, I had enough of this life.

349
00:33:55.440 --> 00:34:00.559
And then a voice spoke out of
nowhere and said to me, do

350
00:34:00.599 --> 00:34:02.200
you want to live or do you
want to die? And I was like,

351
00:34:02.599 --> 00:34:06.680
who's that? I was just sitting
on the floor in my apartment on

352
00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:09.840
my own, sort of with waves
of depression flowing through me, and I've

353
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:14.400
always said do you want to live
or do you want to die? And

354
00:34:14.440 --> 00:34:16.760
I was like, well, I
want to die obviously, and he said

355
00:34:16.920 --> 00:34:20.639
again, I'll ask you again,
do you want to live or do you

356
00:34:20.679 --> 00:34:24.079
want to die? And at that
point, not as did he use the

357
00:34:24.079 --> 00:34:30.000
words, he actually showed me how
to connect with a place deep with inside

358
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:31.800
myself, my heart. And so
I started to look at it from a

359
00:34:31.840 --> 00:34:37.000
place of much more expanded state,
other than this fixed view that life was

360
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:40.719
hopeless, and I would never be
anything other than worthless. Well, I

361
00:34:40.719 --> 00:34:45.760
connected to my heart and he showed
me how to do that. And it's

362
00:34:45.800 --> 00:34:52.119
from that place of gentleness and more
expanded relationship to myself. I said,

363
00:34:52.280 --> 00:34:54.599
I want to live. I want
to live, But how do I do

364
00:34:54.679 --> 00:35:00.639
that? Yeah? And I'm curious
because, yeah, this, this voice

365
00:35:00.679 --> 00:35:08.039
in your head, who you eventually
learned was Amantain is a mont A Montony

366
00:35:08.199 --> 00:35:15.000
yea today. Okay, Yeah,
he's very prominent in the in the book.

367
00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:19.960
And I have to say this,
and I've been in this metaphysical field

368
00:35:20.039 --> 00:35:24.920
for over thirty years. For this
voice to come through not only saved you

369
00:35:25.079 --> 00:35:31.840
in many ways, but talk about
where he came from. Is he considered

370
00:35:32.920 --> 00:35:39.559
a guide? Is he your higher
self? He's very prominent in your life,

371
00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:45.320
and I imagine he still is.
Yeah, he is. You know,

372
00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:49.519
in fact, a couple of years
ago he told me to buy bitcoin.

373
00:35:51.599 --> 00:35:55.079
But yeah, he Uh. That's
the thing. When when I heard

374
00:35:55.119 --> 00:36:00.039
that voice that first time, It's
a voice I've never heard before, and

375
00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:01.519
I did believe, I did believe
in angels, and I was like,

376
00:36:01.639 --> 00:36:06.760
well, it's an angel, it's
my guardian angel. And so I listened

377
00:36:06.800 --> 00:36:12.519
to him, and you know,
that time, I said to myself,

378
00:36:13.119 --> 00:36:15.880
I don't know who this voice is. Is it an angel? Is it

379
00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:17.480
is it? Is it my higher
self? Is it coming from within me?

380
00:36:19.320 --> 00:36:22.920
And I just you know, I
said, it doesn't matter, It

381
00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:25.119
doesn't matter who he is, as
long as I know that he's here to

382
00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:31.280
help me. And I know that
he's a he is a I mean,

383
00:36:31.360 --> 00:36:36.039
he could be an angel, but
he's he is a. It comes from

384
00:36:37.199 --> 00:36:42.719
outside of my own conscious awareness,
and I believe that he's my connection to

385
00:36:43.079 --> 00:36:46.800
the divine realms. And he only
shows up really other than the Bitcoin thing,

386
00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:52.440
when when I really need him to
guide me on on a big sort

387
00:36:52.039 --> 00:36:55.639
of a big thing, like I'm
Dan in Ecuador living in Ecuador now because

388
00:36:55.679 --> 00:37:01.440
of him and U so I say
this in the book. Actually I don't

389
00:37:01.480 --> 00:37:05.679
get bobbed down by the details.
You know. I know he's a guiding

390
00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:13.920
force and he's always there to to
help me in a positive way. He's

391
00:37:14.039 --> 00:37:19.239
never said or done anything that I
doubted was not for my highest good.

392
00:37:20.320 --> 00:37:24.079
Yeah, it's it's wonderful because he
is the one that said you want to

393
00:37:24.119 --> 00:37:28.280
live or you want to die?
And then I want you to start.

394
00:37:28.360 --> 00:37:30.920
I want you to talk about your
journey to India, because out of the

395
00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:38.159
blue, he's basically saying, get
the hell out of England and discover another

396
00:37:38.280 --> 00:37:45.239
community. Talk about your time in
India and how that kind of expanded your

397
00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:49.639
awareness. Yeah, I, well, so I Manson, I said,

398
00:37:49.639 --> 00:37:51.360
well, how do I how do
I live? You know, I'm so

399
00:37:51.480 --> 00:37:52.519
unhappy, he said, I'm going
to tell you. He said, well,

400
00:37:52.840 --> 00:37:55.199
and the first thing you said was
you've got to leave England. You've

401
00:37:55.199 --> 00:37:59.719
got to leave your home environment.
This place is too oppressive for you.

402
00:38:00.840 --> 00:38:05.679
And because I was a critical thinker
and I developed you know, awareness,

403
00:38:05.679 --> 00:38:10.000
I developed awareness of the way that
the British society was controlled from the you

404
00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:14.119
know, the upper class, and
it's very oppressive. And I knew that

405
00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:17.519
if I stayed under that oppressive sort
of baggage for my culture, I would

406
00:38:17.559 --> 00:38:20.840
I probably wouldn't be able to change. Well, he knew that, so

407
00:38:20.960 --> 00:38:22.920
he told me get out of England
and you're going to go on a journey

408
00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:27.119
for eighteen months. And I just
went, yes, okay, you know,

409
00:38:27.280 --> 00:38:30.199
just completely trusting it is. This
is not me, what's going on?

410
00:38:30.320 --> 00:38:34.159
I just said yes, And I'm
willing to give up my somewhat safe

411
00:38:34.280 --> 00:38:37.199
environment, you know, I was
sort of physically safe. I just wasn't

412
00:38:37.239 --> 00:38:40.199
didn't feel safe inside of myself.
But I just said yes to what,

413
00:38:40.400 --> 00:38:44.280
you know, to that I knew
I had to do it. And three

414
00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:46.480
months later I was on the road
and I knew that I was going to

415
00:38:46.559 --> 00:38:49.800
start in India. He didn't say
where to go, he just said,

416
00:38:49.800 --> 00:38:52.920
you're going to leave England. I
knew. But I knew instinctively that I

417
00:38:52.039 --> 00:38:55.000
was starting in India. And I'd
already sort of started, you know,

418
00:38:55.199 --> 00:38:58.840
getting interested in Buddhism. And I
knew that, oh, there's a place

419
00:38:58.880 --> 00:39:04.280
where spirituality depens. I need to
start there. And I so I did.

420
00:39:04.559 --> 00:39:07.199
I embarked on an eighteen month journey, he said, eighteen months.

421
00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:13.280
I went for eighteen months to the
week before I returned to England. So

422
00:39:13.960 --> 00:39:17.119
India, Yeah, what can you
say about India. It's a small gas

423
00:39:17.159 --> 00:39:22.000
board of you know, belief systems
and cultures and languages. And I just

424
00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:27.920
so happened, coincidentally, right,
happened to land in India at the time

425
00:39:27.960 --> 00:39:32.400
of the cumber Mela in Hardware,
which is the largest spiritual festival in the

426
00:39:32.719 --> 00:39:37.079
in the world. It goes on
for a couple of months and they reckon.

427
00:39:37.079 --> 00:39:40.159
About one hundred and fifty million people
show up during that period, and

428
00:39:42.440 --> 00:39:45.360
one hundred and fifty million Indians is
equivalent to about five hundred million Americans.

429
00:39:45.800 --> 00:39:50.199
You know, they sort of can
squeeze into, you know, a smaller

430
00:39:50.280 --> 00:39:53.239
space. But so I went there
and it's like, wow, what a

431
00:39:53.320 --> 00:39:57.079
thing to I didn't know about it. So I arrived in India and somebody

432
00:39:57.079 --> 00:39:59.000
said, oh, you're going to
the Cumbermela is, Oh, what's that?

433
00:40:00.159 --> 00:40:01.679
What? What the thing to show
up for? That? It was,

434
00:40:01.920 --> 00:40:05.519
you know, the timing couldn't have
been better cut it. And so

435
00:40:05.880 --> 00:40:08.559
it's the largest spiritual festival in the
world. So and people from all over

436
00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:14.559
over India and spiritual sekerts from all
over the world are there. So they

437
00:40:14.599 --> 00:40:16.400
all came to me. I didn't
even need to travel around Inja to have

438
00:40:16.639 --> 00:40:20.480
I want to ask you, Alan, I want to ask you you were

439
00:40:20.559 --> 00:40:28.199
guided to go to Anya this high
spiritual a period. Yeah, did you

440
00:40:29.880 --> 00:40:35.719
connect with any of these, uh, these guru sieges or the tens of

441
00:40:35.800 --> 00:40:38.840
thousands of spiritual seekers who were there. Did you go to any of the

442
00:40:38.920 --> 00:40:43.920
ceremonies. You don't really describe that
in the book. Yeah, I don't

443
00:40:43.960 --> 00:40:47.960
so much. Yeah, I would
interact with I didn't get I didn't go

444
00:40:49.000 --> 00:40:51.440
to an astron aim or like a
month longer treat or anything like that.

445
00:40:51.559 --> 00:40:55.079
That was so far out of my
you know, but I would communicate with

446
00:40:55.280 --> 00:40:59.400
There's a lot of sadous. Sadoos
are the holy men. A lot of

447
00:40:59.480 --> 00:41:02.840
the time there they're naked. Even
then they smoke chillims which are filled with

448
00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:07.719
hashi So I got as somebody who
did smoke hashi's at that point. I

449
00:41:07.760 --> 00:41:08.960
would sit with them, you know, and communicate with them a lot and

450
00:41:09.039 --> 00:41:13.719
spoken you know, faltering English,
or they'd be people they're translating. So

451
00:41:13.719 --> 00:41:16.360
I'd hang out with these people,
and it's like so far removed from anything

452
00:41:16.360 --> 00:41:21.639
I'd ever experienced in my life.
Sitting by the banks of the Ganges with

453
00:41:21.800 --> 00:41:25.159
millions of people walking by it,
It's only opened my mind. So I

454
00:41:25.239 --> 00:41:30.639
did engage with people and talk awesome
about their lives where they gave up,

455
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:35.079
you know, just some normal life
and decided to embark on their life as

456
00:41:35.159 --> 00:41:39.119
Sadu's traveling traveling around injur on foot, typically you know, with nothing,

457
00:41:39.199 --> 00:41:45.920
no no material could whatsoever. You
know, They've often naked, so from

458
00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:52.199
From that eighteen month journey, you
came back to England and then you took

459
00:41:52.239 --> 00:41:58.320
off again. You began going to
Tibet, in Peru, South America.

460
00:41:58.480 --> 00:42:01.360
Talk a little bit about this traveling
journey. It's almost like you were on

461
00:42:01.719 --> 00:42:07.199
a spiritual, a spiritual journey,
right. Well, actually, so I

462
00:42:07.280 --> 00:42:14.039
was eighteen months in in Asia and
I actually that trip I did. I

463
00:42:14.079 --> 00:42:17.039
did go to t Better as well, which is probably the most powerful country

464
00:42:17.480 --> 00:42:22.280
spiritually that I embarked, and probably
the most life changing experience was my time

465
00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:28.440
into About And then I came back
to England and what was in what was

466
00:42:28.559 --> 00:42:32.920
fascinating for me, and I had
all these incredible adventures and this is something

467
00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:36.480
I hadn't realized when I was living
in England, but when I got back

468
00:42:36.519 --> 00:42:40.320
it was really hit me in the
face. People don't ask questions, you

469
00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:45.400
know. So I had these incredible
experiences and nobody asked me about it,

470
00:42:46.280 --> 00:42:50.599
and you know, and that in
that period I also give an up drinking

471
00:42:50.639 --> 00:42:53.320
alcohol and eating meat. So you
know, in England, if you don't

472
00:42:53.360 --> 00:42:55.679
go to a pub, you really
don't get to meet people, you know.

473
00:42:55.880 --> 00:42:59.840
And because I wouldn't, I didn't
eat meat. I had to pick

474
00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:02.559
too, was where I ate in
England, and so I sort of had

475
00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:06.360
to find new friends. You know, the friends that I had, you

476
00:43:06.440 --> 00:43:08.960
know, I sort of a way
historic friends. They just were so different

477
00:43:09.079 --> 00:43:13.800
and I was so so different from
them, shall I say? I had

478
00:43:13.840 --> 00:43:17.320
to find friends that I could actually
feel more comfortable with. And it was

479
00:43:17.360 --> 00:43:22.599
pretty clear to me that I had
to keep traveling, and so I decided

480
00:43:22.639 --> 00:43:28.960
to go to South America to explore
that land. And that's really the country

481
00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:32.079
that I, or say the I
went to Peru a couple of times in

482
00:43:32.199 --> 00:43:37.719
that trip, and it's the country
that I traveled to most in when I

483
00:43:37.079 --> 00:43:42.079
following that experience in South America,
I ended up living in San Francisco for

484
00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:46.320
twenty five years, surprisingly and you
know, the US for about thirty two

485
00:43:46.400 --> 00:43:50.159
years before moving down here. But
I still, you know, perub was

486
00:43:50.280 --> 00:43:52.960
very important country to me, even
though I moved to Ecuador. But then

487
00:43:53.360 --> 00:44:01.239
you took another turn and you became
a hospice worker at the Zen Hospice Project

488
00:44:01.639 --> 00:44:09.599
here in San Francisco during the a's
epidemic. What a very difficult time to

489
00:44:09.719 --> 00:44:15.639
be working. And I remember I
had a number of friends pass away from

490
00:44:15.800 --> 00:44:22.840
from a's or as related illnesses.
So talk about why why would you do

491
00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:28.519
that, Alan, Why would you
commit yourself to be a hospice worker one

492
00:44:28.559 --> 00:44:32.920
of the most I mean, I'm
sure there's satisfaction, but that's to start

493
00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:38.760
off, must have been shocking.
It's devastating. So I arrived in San

494
00:44:38.800 --> 00:44:45.480
Francisco kind of like at the beginning
of the the age crisis or the way

495
00:44:45.480 --> 00:44:50.239
it was speaking. And uh,
my first boss was gay, and you

496
00:44:50.320 --> 00:44:52.400
know, I was in construction work. He was gay and always friends.

497
00:44:52.519 --> 00:44:57.559
He's like, I've got three friends
left way and I did. And he

498
00:44:57.639 --> 00:45:01.239
became my landlord and in his house
at of gay gay guys living there.

499
00:45:01.559 --> 00:45:07.239
So they became my friends, you
know, my community. And even though

500
00:45:07.280 --> 00:45:09.719
I'm not gay myself, you know, I really loved them, you know,

501
00:45:09.800 --> 00:45:15.400
and we're really close. And I
wanted to give back to San Francisco.

502
00:45:15.400 --> 00:45:17.440
I wanted to give back to my
gay friends for welcoming me in and

503
00:45:19.119 --> 00:45:22.840
and just accepting me as a straight
man and respecting me for that. And

504
00:45:23.599 --> 00:45:30.199
so I started off actually delivering meals
with Project Open Hand that you probably know.

505
00:45:30.360 --> 00:45:34.840
And so they that started during the
Age Crisis and in the mid eighties,

506
00:45:34.920 --> 00:45:38.519
and they delivered meals. It started
off delivering meals to people with age

507
00:45:38.559 --> 00:45:43.639
that were home bound, and then
they expanded to anybody that was homebound deliver

508
00:45:43.760 --> 00:45:46.400
meals. An amazing organization. And
then I realized at some point I wanted

509
00:45:46.440 --> 00:45:52.880
to have more you know, interpersonal
relationship because with project open hand, sometimes

510
00:45:53.320 --> 00:45:58.199
times I just leave the food on
the doorstep and you know, ring the

511
00:45:58.239 --> 00:46:01.800
bell, engage with the people I
was living to. Another part of it

512
00:46:01.960 --> 00:46:06.360
is that I mentioned about Tibet.
When I was in Tibet, I became

513
00:46:06.440 --> 00:46:10.840
really interested in Buddhism, and the
central teaching of Buddhism is the practices of

514
00:46:12.039 --> 00:46:15.599
wisdom and compassion. If you want
to be happy from the Tibetan standpoint,

515
00:46:15.639 --> 00:46:21.639
all you have to do is practice
wisdom and compassion and you'll learn the path

516
00:46:22.159 --> 00:46:28.079
to happiness. And so I was
practicing Buddhist and I knew that I needed

517
00:46:28.639 --> 00:46:31.400
to be more compassionate and I wanted
to and part of my practice, my

518
00:46:31.480 --> 00:46:36.559
spiritual practice, was you know,
to help people in the compassionate way.

519
00:46:36.559 --> 00:46:40.320
And so I couldn't think of anything
better than working at the Zen Hospice to

520
00:46:40.760 --> 00:46:45.960
you know, to help with my
own personal practice of compassion but also to

521
00:46:45.079 --> 00:46:49.800
help the community that had sort kind
of taken me in so kindly. We're

522
00:46:49.840 --> 00:46:52.480
going to come back today. I
work with them for twenty years. Wow.

523
00:46:52.519 --> 00:46:55.599
We're going to come back to that
theme a little bit later when you're

524
00:46:55.599 --> 00:47:02.079
starting to work with ayahuasca. We're
going to take a short period to allow

525
00:47:02.199 --> 00:47:07.559
our sponsors to identify themselves and we
will return quickly with my guest today,

526
00:47:07.639 --> 00:47:15.880
Alan Francis wis coming to us from
Ecuador and his new book, al Chemical

527
00:47:16.159 --> 00:47:59.840
Ayahuasca. We will be right back. My guest this week is Alan Francis.

528
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:04.679
While he is a Ayahuascan shaman,
he has written a new book called

529
00:48:04.760 --> 00:48:10.960
al Chemical Ayahuasca, based on his
life, his evolving consciousness, and the

530
00:48:12.079 --> 00:48:16.199
use of plant medicines to heal not
only himself but thousands of others who have

531
00:48:16.800 --> 00:48:24.000
taken Ayahuascan journeys. In his retreats, you write that in the early two

532
00:48:24.079 --> 00:48:30.559
thousands you were introduced to ayahuasca in
Peru. Did you I think you were

533
00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:36.519
with your girlfriend and you were I
guess seeking it out. Talk a little

534
00:48:36.519 --> 00:48:42.639
bit about your first introduction to it
and that experience. Okay, yeah,

535
00:48:42.679 --> 00:48:45.360
me and my actually shoes, my
wife me and my wife, first wife,

536
00:48:45.880 --> 00:48:50.400
we wanted to We love to travel, so we traveled a lot,

537
00:48:50.920 --> 00:48:55.519
and we wanted to spend time living
somewhere. Because Peru was so close to

538
00:48:55.599 --> 00:49:00.320
my heart. I've been in many
times, I wanted to suggested we went

539
00:49:00.400 --> 00:49:05.039
there. So we went there for
six months to do volunteer work and to

540
00:49:05.880 --> 00:49:09.199
get you know, learn the language
and to understand the people, to explore

541
00:49:09.199 --> 00:49:14.119
the shamanic hubs audience in shamanism at
that point, so into you know,

542
00:49:14.679 --> 00:49:19.119
explore the shamanic world. I'd also
just prior to going to Peru, developed

543
00:49:19.159 --> 00:49:23.360
tenaitis in my left ear was very
loud, ringing and deafness, and I

544
00:49:23.599 --> 00:49:25.519
was freaking me out. So I
thought, well, while I'm in Peru,

545
00:49:25.599 --> 00:49:29.679
I'm going to seek out a sharman. I hadn't actually done any research

546
00:49:30.320 --> 00:49:34.920
about iowa'sco I'd heard about its starting
to get a gain popularity, and I

547
00:49:35.039 --> 00:49:40.159
was, you know, studying shamanism
in the Bay areas fan Fisco Bay with

548
00:49:40.280 --> 00:49:45.920
Michael Hahna, who was kind of
the grandfather of the modern shamanism movement,

549
00:49:45.920 --> 00:49:50.360
who just happened to live, you
know, just across the Golden Gay Bridge

550
00:49:50.400 --> 00:49:53.840
for me, and so I started
to hear about ayahuasca and I thought,

551
00:49:53.840 --> 00:49:58.079
well, I'm in Peru, you
know, I've got to try. So

552
00:49:58.239 --> 00:50:04.199
I I was very carefu about finding
somebody you can. You know, there's

553
00:50:04.320 --> 00:50:07.360
a lot of people out there that
are putting themselves out there as eye was

554
00:50:07.440 --> 00:50:09.639
sca aros, the same way as
they are in you know, the United

555
00:50:09.679 --> 00:50:13.559
States and elsewhere. But you really
got feeling out because you don't want to

556
00:50:13.559 --> 00:50:15.559
trust that type of experience of somebody
that you don't feel safe with. So

557
00:50:16.079 --> 00:50:22.840
I found so unfortunately, I found
somebody through a friend and I started started

558
00:50:22.880 --> 00:50:27.000
on that journey. And the first
time I drank ahiahuasca, I didn't know

559
00:50:27.079 --> 00:50:30.079
what I was opening up. You
know, I was going to actually be

560
00:50:30.199 --> 00:50:34.039
the path of a big part of
my life from from that point on.

561
00:50:34.719 --> 00:50:37.519
And so, you know, it's
a very powerful teaching, as it is

562
00:50:37.599 --> 00:50:42.360
for a lot of people who drink
hihosca. They changed their lives in a

563
00:50:42.880 --> 00:50:52.239
drastic way. You actually also were
connected and sought out other Aluascar darrows in

564
00:50:52.480 --> 00:50:58.440
not only in Peru, but in
other parts of the of South America.

565
00:50:59.159 --> 00:51:02.960
And these in the some of the
top names or many of them are passed

566
00:51:04.039 --> 00:51:07.440
on Why did you feel the need
to visit with them? Did you have

567
00:51:07.559 --> 00:51:13.360
a sense that at some point you
wanted to be a shaman of the of

568
00:51:13.480 --> 00:51:19.840
the Sacred Plant. Yeah, So
that first journey down to Peru, I

569
00:51:19.920 --> 00:51:24.159
came back from that having had the
most incredible experiences of my life. I

570
00:51:24.199 --> 00:51:30.840
couldn't you can't really describe. But
the tonight wasn't healed, but something else

571
00:51:30.880 --> 00:51:34.440
happened. And I talk about this
in the book where my first night back

572
00:51:34.480 --> 00:51:37.719
at the hospice, some of you
just died. I was sitting by his

573
00:51:37.880 --> 00:51:45.119
bed and I saw his I saw
smoke leaving what looked like smoke or sort

574
00:51:45.119 --> 00:51:50.119
of like a gray amorphous cloud,
and he's coming out of his ears and

575
00:51:50.239 --> 00:51:53.360
his mouth and his nose. And
I was like, you know, well,

576
00:51:53.440 --> 00:51:57.880
what's going on here? And I
remember saying the words something's different,

577
00:51:57.960 --> 00:52:00.440
isn't it, and that I'm unto
name my spirit. Guy said, yes

578
00:52:00.559 --> 00:52:02.920
it is. You're a healer.
This is your path for the rest of

579
00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:09.159
your life. And those words fundamentally
and radically changed my life. You're a

580
00:52:09.239 --> 00:52:12.840
healer. This is your path for
the rest of your life. So imagine

581
00:52:12.960 --> 00:52:16.280
the beautiful thing about him. He
says things exactly the way that you need

582
00:52:16.360 --> 00:52:20.239
to hear it. But he'll only
say it when you're ready to hear it.

583
00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:22.960
And I knew that I was ready
to hear that because I just said,

584
00:52:23.079 --> 00:52:27.800
yes, that's right. And I
came from home from the hospice shift,

585
00:52:28.320 --> 00:52:30.719
and I told my wife what had
happened, and she suggested I go

586
00:52:30.800 --> 00:52:34.599
back to Peru. But I knew
with his words very percent member. He

587
00:52:34.679 --> 00:52:37.840
speaks very precisely, and I knew
that you are a healer. So I

588
00:52:38.079 --> 00:52:44.360
was a healer, that I was
a healer, and so I started to

589
00:52:45.599 --> 00:52:46.400
call people up, friends up,
do you want to come around I do

590
00:52:46.519 --> 00:52:50.920
healing work? And I started doing
healing work without just by laying my hands

591
00:52:50.960 --> 00:52:53.039
on and you know, using a
rattle and stuff like that that I learned

592
00:52:53.119 --> 00:52:58.800
in my shamanic training, and people
had these most profound experiences. So I

593
00:52:58.880 --> 00:53:01.599
knew I needed to deep in it. So I went to back to pre

594
00:53:02.079 --> 00:53:07.639
prough and over the years studied with
many different sort of high level practitioners.

595
00:53:08.079 --> 00:53:13.599
Because I that's my style. I
tend to sort of choose things that are

596
00:53:13.599 --> 00:53:15.559
the best, the best of the
best in all the trainings that I've had,

597
00:53:15.920 --> 00:53:20.800
and one of the things that can
really help the western the westerner.

598
00:53:22.320 --> 00:53:24.880
And so I now I've developed sort
of what I call a fusion of techniques,

599
00:53:25.039 --> 00:53:30.239
which includes some some includes high Oscar, some include shamanism, some includes

600
00:53:30.400 --> 00:53:36.159
you know, mind body techniques,
et cetera. But I Oscar's being the

601
00:53:36.199 --> 00:53:40.679
guiding force throughout all of those years. And so I saw people that I

602
00:53:40.800 --> 00:53:44.480
was recommended to that I usually check
this guy out, and you know,

603
00:53:44.480 --> 00:53:46.960
I'm very adventurous. So I go
sort of like the down river for a

604
00:53:47.039 --> 00:53:51.320
couple of days to you know,
find some some village you know where,

605
00:53:51.360 --> 00:53:53.960
Oh hello, do you know where
don the CEO is? And and uh,

606
00:53:55.119 --> 00:53:58.639
you know, and they're always welcoming. Now there was you know,

607
00:53:59.079 --> 00:54:01.880
they're away. That's what they're you
know, they Arewaskaias, and so they

608
00:54:01.880 --> 00:54:07.840
would take me under their wing.
Yeah. So you have a lot of

609
00:54:07.079 --> 00:54:13.480
really really great experience, and as
you say, you developed your own style.

610
00:54:14.239 --> 00:54:17.800
Would you say that when you are
in this altered state of consciousness,

611
00:54:17.920 --> 00:54:25.840
you have been get any reference to
past lives coming together to make you this

612
00:54:27.000 --> 00:54:31.239
healer, make you this shaman that
you can discuss because this is something that

613
00:54:31.440 --> 00:54:38.159
I don't really hear a great deal
about from awascaderos who are noted is the

614
00:54:38.280 --> 00:54:45.599
fact that they were incarnated in body
in this time period to do this work.

615
00:54:46.880 --> 00:54:52.159
Yeah, yes, very much.
So I know that I was,

616
00:54:52.280 --> 00:54:55.920
I have been a heater through many
lifetimes. I know that at some point

617
00:54:55.960 --> 00:54:59.239
I lived in Peru, and I
also know at some point I lived in

618
00:54:59.320 --> 00:55:02.960
Tibet, and so I've sort in
a ways that's why I've been so attracted

619
00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:08.719
to Tibetan Buddhism and Ayahuascar Shamanism.
There was something that I outside of myself

620
00:55:08.800 --> 00:55:13.559
that kind of drew me to those
areas. Why I chose Indura and Tibet,

621
00:55:13.639 --> 00:55:19.199
and why I've been so drawn to
Peru, and you know the healing

622
00:55:19.360 --> 00:55:22.639
techniques down there. So yeah,
there's something outside of myself. I can't

623
00:55:22.679 --> 00:55:25.239
necessarily, I don't necessarily identify their
lives, but I know that I have

624
00:55:25.639 --> 00:55:30.400
been connected to that. But on
ayahuasca, what you do is you you

625
00:55:31.280 --> 00:55:35.320
look back on your life. It
shows it's sort of in a way illuminate

626
00:55:35.440 --> 00:55:40.039
certain circumstances of your life that have
brought you to this place where you're looking

627
00:55:40.119 --> 00:55:44.079
for healing. And so as it
brings it to the surface, it allows

628
00:55:44.119 --> 00:55:47.679
it to be healed. But there's
also this stream of consciousness that is that

629
00:55:47.800 --> 00:55:52.639
you know is going way back in
time that it's brought into that you know,

630
00:55:53.159 --> 00:55:57.280
say, purging opportunity. You're not
just when you're pershing. You know

631
00:55:57.440 --> 00:56:01.639
that you're pershing from not from the
depths if your soul, which also incorporates

632
00:56:01.719 --> 00:56:07.360
previous lifetimes, you don't necessarily identify
the previous lifetime. So although you can,

633
00:56:07.480 --> 00:56:12.719
that can be your experience, but
you know that something bigger than you

634
00:56:12.880 --> 00:56:16.800
is happening. And that's what ayahuasca
can can provide for you in such a

635
00:56:16.840 --> 00:56:22.039
powerful way and why it's become so
popular. I want to get into some

636
00:56:22.480 --> 00:56:27.960
stories of people being healed in the
specific illnesses. But before we do that,

637
00:56:28.840 --> 00:56:32.440
let's talk about a section of your
book where you are talking about working

638
00:56:32.599 --> 00:56:40.320
with ayahuasca in the sitting. Talk
about the I call um the four.

639
00:56:40.760 --> 00:56:47.639
It's probably more than four prerequisite,
So I'm just going to use that word

640
00:56:49.199 --> 00:56:55.800
diet, intention, finding the right
shaman, and number four, which was

641
00:56:55.920 --> 00:57:00.960
I thought was really good, Have
no expectation. I'll I gave you a

642
00:57:01.039 --> 00:57:06.960
lot to chew on. Alan.
Let's start with preparing for the ceremony.

643
00:57:07.719 --> 00:57:10.599
Yeah, preparing for the ceremony,
well, I mean it goes, it

644
00:57:10.679 --> 00:57:15.480
goes, but way before, way
before the actual ceremony starts. The fact

645
00:57:15.519 --> 00:57:19.360
that you go on the internet you
think, I want to find an eye

646
00:57:19.360 --> 00:57:22.880
what's good retreat in you know,
the jungle in Peru or Ecuador. That

647
00:57:23.000 --> 00:57:27.000
the healing started at that point,
you know, because you have made a

648
00:57:27.079 --> 00:57:30.719
decision in your life to change your
life. That's massive, to do something

649
00:57:30.800 --> 00:57:36.119
that's scary, that's unknown, that's
not part of your cultural reference, that's

650
00:57:36.239 --> 00:57:40.079
massive. And so the healing starts
as you should when you sit turn the

651
00:57:40.119 --> 00:57:46.719
computer on to do that. But
there's also the preparation before ceremony, and

652
00:57:46.920 --> 00:57:52.119
that is I just have to say, when you find a place in you

653
00:57:52.199 --> 00:57:54.199
know, say Peru, which is
very common, you know, you have

654
00:57:54.320 --> 00:57:58.599
to use due diligence. You know, you look at the references and find

655
00:57:59.119 --> 00:58:01.360
you know, find out from people
that have been there how they felt about

656
00:58:01.440 --> 00:58:06.079
it. You know, because just
this it's on the internet, doesn't mean

657
00:58:06.079 --> 00:58:08.440
it s necesarily going to be the
best place for you. But then there's

658
00:58:08.679 --> 00:58:13.800
the dietary thing. Now that the
diet is sort of in a way controversial

659
00:58:13.840 --> 00:58:19.000
because some cultures they use specific diets
and some don't. Each individual retreat center

660
00:58:19.039 --> 00:58:22.559
has their own specific diet in Peru, and some of the experts I've had

661
00:58:22.599 --> 00:58:28.840
some some for example, when I
first started drinking Iowa Osca, the Maestro

662
00:58:29.480 --> 00:58:31.199
Pedro, he didn't say anything about
diet. The whole time that I went

663
00:58:31.239 --> 00:58:36.079
with him, he didn't say anything. So it is sort of controversial what

664
00:58:36.239 --> 00:58:39.920
exactly is a specific diet. There's
a general overview that it should be things

665
00:58:40.000 --> 00:58:46.039
that don't sort of stimulate your body, like salt and oils and certain foods

666
00:58:46.119 --> 00:58:52.960
like pork and things like that,
taboo and alcohol and coffee. Part of

667
00:58:53.000 --> 00:58:57.159
the diet is also not to put
anything in your body that overstimulates sort of

668
00:58:57.199 --> 00:59:00.639
like your kidneys, such as horror
films or death metal music and things like

669
00:59:00.719 --> 00:59:07.559
that. So things you know that
don't overstimulate your body very very simple for

670
00:59:07.639 --> 00:59:14.639
the body to absorb. And also
not putting things like listening to the news

671
00:59:14.840 --> 00:59:20.400
or you know, things that are
putting fear base of manipulative belief systems into

672
00:59:20.480 --> 00:59:22.920
your sort of consciousness. So that's
all part of it. My own sort

673
00:59:22.920 --> 00:59:29.239
of relationship to diet is that you're
doing as much for anything else as an

674
00:59:29.800 --> 00:59:35.159
offering of reciprocity to ayahuasca. In
other words, I'm serious about this.

675
00:59:35.960 --> 00:59:39.679
I'm I am giving up all these
things that I get stimulated by, and

676
00:59:39.760 --> 00:59:44.519
I'm sort of, you know,
bringing bringing things down to basics. Partly

677
00:59:44.599 --> 00:59:47.360
because you want to pay your body, but partly it is an offering to

678
00:59:47.960 --> 00:59:53.239
oscar is a reciprocal offering. And
also because ayahuascar or the spirit, well

679
00:59:53.440 --> 00:59:57.920
they don't have it doesn't have sensors, doesn't have ego. So what you're

680
00:59:57.920 --> 01:00:00.079
taking out of your diet things that
stimulate the same answers. So you're what

681
01:00:00.159 --> 01:00:05.760
you're doing is you're really aligning yourself
as best you can with the experience of

682
01:00:06.639 --> 01:00:10.119
the spirit not having senses. And
so it's that sort of beautiful, prayerful

683
01:00:10.199 --> 01:00:16.920
way of creating sacred space within yourself
before you actually embark on the ayahuasca experience.

684
01:00:17.440 --> 01:00:22.719
Whether it actually benefits your experience or
not, it's debatable whether your experience

685
01:00:22.760 --> 01:00:27.239
will be stronger with those things or
without them. It's debatable. As I

686
01:00:27.280 --> 01:00:30.920
said, when I strength ayahuasca,
I didn't know anything about diet or just

687
01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:36.320
living life as normal and very powerful
ceremonies that changed my life. But it's

688
01:00:36.360 --> 01:00:40.480
a good practice because you're you're preparing
yourself for what is potentially a life changing

689
01:00:40.559 --> 01:00:44.760
experience, so you might as well
change your life before you drink. So

690
01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:51.760
I don't want to as as a
leader alan as an owascadero yourself. I

691
01:00:51.840 --> 01:00:54.239
mean, are you saying, don't
eat meat for a week, don't drink

692
01:00:54.239 --> 01:00:59.920
any booze for a week prior to
the ceremony? What are you personally?

693
01:01:00.159 --> 01:01:04.679
Yeah? Again, I tend.
I tend to my time frame. So

694
01:01:04.760 --> 01:01:07.480
here's another thing. In the jungle, it's a lot easier to follow the

695
01:01:07.599 --> 01:01:10.440
diet because they don't have access to
a lot of the things that we have

696
01:01:10.559 --> 01:01:14.639
in the West. So it's a
lot easier to follow the diet. You're

697
01:01:14.800 --> 01:01:16.039
you know, you're, I say, on a retreat and they're giving you

698
01:01:16.079 --> 01:01:19.400
the food that you need to eat. In the West, we have access

699
01:01:19.440 --> 01:01:22.880
to a lot more and it's a
lot harder to fulfill the diet. So

700
01:01:22.920 --> 01:01:24.880
I want people to feel like they're
failing or I failed. It's all going

701
01:01:24.920 --> 01:01:28.320
to be a miserable failure the thing. So I tend to sort of like

702
01:01:28.480 --> 01:01:32.119
rain it in to to be much
more doable. So I tend to take

703
01:01:32.239 --> 01:01:38.800
three days before three days after the
things that that includes like orgasm. The

704
01:01:38.920 --> 01:01:45.280
things that need to be longer for
medical reasons are SSR rise and you know,

705
01:01:45.320 --> 01:01:49.199
certain anti psychotic medicines and things like
that needs to be for a month

706
01:01:49.280 --> 01:01:53.119
because it's still in your system and
you know, there's there is some proof

707
01:01:53.360 --> 01:02:05.360
that there's a contra indicative possibility if
you mix those pharmaceuticals with eyahuasca. It's

708
01:02:05.440 --> 01:02:07.440
not guaranteed that anything bad would happen
to you, but it might happen,

709
01:02:07.840 --> 01:02:12.960
and so it's always done, as
you know, a precautionary measure, and

710
01:02:13.039 --> 01:02:15.480
that the one that people are most
strict about is is the SSRIs. To

711
01:02:15.599 --> 01:02:20.880
not have the SSRIs for a month
prior to drinking oscar. You really have

712
01:02:21.000 --> 01:02:25.960
to contact the retreat center as to
what they what they recommend or you know,

713
01:02:27.119 --> 01:02:30.280
I'm taking this medication. Is that
like for example, for anti thyroid

714
01:02:30.360 --> 01:02:32.559
medication, I tend to be okay
with that. I tend to be okay

715
01:02:32.639 --> 01:02:37.480
with with the insulin and things like
that, and also like the inhalers for

716
01:02:39.239 --> 01:02:43.920
asthma. You know, so certain
things that I found to be okay.

717
01:02:44.079 --> 01:02:46.840
But there's also a lot of information
on the internet about that. But it's

718
01:02:46.840 --> 01:02:52.519
always best to verify that with whoever
you're going to drink eyewascar with and a

719
01:02:52.599 --> 01:02:54.679
lot. In Peru, it's it's
quite well set up that I'm more familiar

720
01:02:54.719 --> 01:02:59.920
with doing ceremony. They usually have
like a protocol that you have to follow.

721
01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:07.800
Okay, fascinating. Let's talk about
some of your clients, and you

722
01:03:07.880 --> 01:03:14.800
can also give examples from other ceremonies
you've been in. If somebody comes in

723
01:03:16.000 --> 01:03:23.480
has a health issue, pain,
arthritis, and on the high end of

724
01:03:23.599 --> 01:03:30.719
the scale, cancer, what do
you think ayahuasca does for that. Obviously,

725
01:03:31.840 --> 01:03:37.360
if someone comes down to a ceremony
and they're talking to the shaman and

726
01:03:37.519 --> 01:03:44.159
saying, I would like to have
some relief from this condition, one of

727
01:03:44.199 --> 01:03:45.920
the big things I would think is
going to the shaman's going to say is

728
01:03:46.360 --> 01:03:52.119
Okay, you have to intentionally prepare
for this. You have to intend to

729
01:03:52.239 --> 01:03:59.079
get relief. What are the benefits
of using ayahuaska? Yeah, Well,

730
01:03:59.079 --> 01:04:03.639
the intention is important because it kind
of drives drives the energy. I just

731
01:04:03.679 --> 01:04:06.559
talk about intention a little bit.
That you know, when you do a

732
01:04:06.639 --> 01:04:11.360
ceremony or come to me for a
healing session, it's always important to have

733
01:04:11.400 --> 01:04:15.320
an intention because intention in a way
sort of like directs the energy. And

734
01:04:15.400 --> 01:04:17.719
it also is like a funnel of
energy. It sends the energy in a

735
01:04:17.800 --> 01:04:24.960
much more concentrated way towards it towards
your own process. And so it's good

736
01:04:25.000 --> 01:04:28.800
to have a strong, strong intention, but a narrow intention. I mean

737
01:04:28.920 --> 01:04:31.119
like, oh, I just want
to feel better. Really, isn't isn't

738
01:04:31.119 --> 01:04:35.079
good enough? You know what?
What's preventing you from feeling better? Focus

739
01:04:35.159 --> 01:04:40.599
on let's focus on that. I
want to release my self hatred. How

740
01:04:40.639 --> 01:04:45.159
about that? That's much more focus, but self hatred that there's there's many

741
01:04:45.280 --> 01:04:48.360
layers about why you experienced self hatred. Like when I was depressed, I

742
01:04:48.440 --> 01:04:53.280
had self hatred. There were many
layers of why I had self hatred,

743
01:04:53.719 --> 01:04:59.239
including my culture and the religion I
was indoctrinated. With no offense to Christians.

744
01:04:59.280 --> 01:05:00.760
You know, I love it now, but at the time I didn't.

745
01:05:02.039 --> 01:05:06.400
And so that's what I work.
And I might see asked questions from

746
01:05:06.440 --> 01:05:10.320
people have a session with me,
but I ASO, you just set your

747
01:05:10.360 --> 01:05:15.000
intention there. Sometimes the maestro or
the maestro I also go ask you more,

748
01:05:15.559 --> 01:05:18.320
but often they don't, you know, because sometimes there's like groups of

749
01:05:18.480 --> 01:05:21.519
fifty people, you know, they
don't have time you're going with an intention.

750
01:05:21.880 --> 01:05:26.719
The intentions also hopefully helpful if you're
having a really hard time, come

751
01:05:26.800 --> 01:05:30.480
back to the intention. In a
sense, it helps both to calm you

752
01:05:30.599 --> 01:05:34.000
down and it also helps to drive
the energy down to where you need it

753
01:05:34.440 --> 01:05:40.920
and out of your head. So
that's really important. And so what was

754
01:05:40.920 --> 01:05:43.719
the other part of the question.
Sorry, well, I mean, can

755
01:05:43.760 --> 01:05:49.400
you give some examples of people who
have had healings both psychological and physical,

756
01:05:50.159 --> 01:05:55.679
or if you can remember or having
an example of a spiritual healing. I'd

757
01:05:55.719 --> 01:06:00.800
like to hear that as well.
Yeah, yeah, I mean my own

758
01:06:00.840 --> 01:06:04.119
healings are polity ones are most familiar. You're pretty amazing just by yourself,

759
01:06:04.159 --> 01:06:11.119
You're right. Yeah. So but
the thing is, let's talk about cancer.

760
01:06:11.960 --> 01:06:14.440
So there's two things that you can
work with on cancer. One is

761
01:06:14.559 --> 01:06:19.039
the physical condition. One is the
mental, emotional spiritual conditions. That is

762
01:06:19.159 --> 01:06:29.239
the cause of the originating cancer cells
germinating and reproducing. So they're going to

763
01:06:29.280 --> 01:06:33.039
work on the physical They're going to
help you with that. So there's two

764
01:06:33.119 --> 01:06:39.840
types of Iowa scaros. There's one
that I was scaros that that's what they

765
01:06:39.920 --> 01:06:44.320
do, they work with I was
they say that I Oscar can hear eighty

766
01:06:44.400 --> 01:06:51.239
percent of all conditions, and then
there's the hit Listas betailistas are like herbalists.

767
01:06:51.360 --> 01:06:56.679
They use Ayeauascar to identify the plants
they need to give you for that

768
01:06:56.800 --> 01:07:01.760
condition, and so they believe that
approximately I can help to heal twenty percent

769
01:07:01.840 --> 01:07:06.679
of conditions and that the other herbs
that Iosco identifies for you that you need

770
01:07:08.000 --> 01:07:11.519
will cure the other eighty percent.
So there's two different ways of going in

771
01:07:11.599 --> 01:07:15.360
with it. But ultimately, all
plants are spirits. All plants have consciousness,

772
01:07:15.400 --> 01:07:20.239
so they're mixing THEA lists, are
mixing the different spiritual energies, and

773
01:07:20.280 --> 01:07:26.599
also the chemistry of the biology of
the plants is helping. The eyeball scare

774
01:07:26.760 --> 01:07:31.159
is going to be working more with
the mental, emotional, spiritual component that

775
01:07:31.280 --> 01:07:42.639
is behind the condition. You know
this. You hear about IOSCA sorry cancer

776
01:07:43.039 --> 01:07:47.119
having a personality, So people with
the personality type that's more likely to get

777
01:07:48.320 --> 01:07:54.800
cancer, and that is hopelessness and
helplessness. You have a sense of helplessness

778
01:07:54.840 --> 01:07:58.840
and hopelessness. I actually listened to
a podcast from yours the other day with

779
01:07:58.960 --> 01:08:04.840
the home who was saying that the
cancer personality is somebody who is more likely

780
01:08:05.719 --> 01:08:10.559
just to agree with everything you know
to I can't say no, and that

781
01:08:10.679 --> 01:08:14.079
there will be there will be the
rescuer to help you, and you believe

782
01:08:14.119 --> 01:08:17.840
everything they're told that that's the cancer
personality he's identified. The one I've identified

783
01:08:17.960 --> 01:08:24.359
is somebody that has a sense of
hopelessness and helplessness and so they develop cancer.

784
01:08:24.439 --> 01:08:30.920
So the the iao oscar will focus
on whatever, whether it's somebody who's

785
01:08:30.079 --> 01:08:33.039
who can't say no, or whether
it's somebody that feels helpless and hopeless,

786
01:08:33.920 --> 01:08:38.560
the hio oscar will go to the
root cause of what's causing the cancer.

787
01:08:38.640 --> 01:08:42.520
The you know, not feeling worthy
to be loved. It's so common,

788
01:08:43.520 --> 01:08:45.920
I'm not I'm not worthy to be
loved. So at some point in your

789
01:08:45.960 --> 01:08:50.359
life you develop cancer for two reasons. One because you would you're going to

790
01:08:50.479 --> 01:08:55.720
learn more in the spiritual plane.
Or two you need the cancer to learn

791
01:08:56.159 --> 01:09:01.199
how to to feel worthy to be
loved. And during your cancer for you

792
01:09:01.600 --> 01:09:04.399
to actually embark on this process of
curing your cancer, what you have to

793
01:09:04.439 --> 01:09:09.640
go through mentally, emotionally, psychologic, psychologically, you have to develop deep

794
01:09:09.720 --> 01:09:14.720
self love and self reverence to go
through that to survive. So you're learning

795
01:09:14.760 --> 01:09:18.760
how to love yourself, and that
is the primary love that you need to

796
01:09:18.840 --> 01:09:21.960
experience to feel worthy to be loved, is the love you have with yourself.

797
01:09:23.640 --> 01:09:28.039
So that's a beautiful way that you
grow that people grow from from cancer.

798
01:09:28.640 --> 01:09:30.520
It's like, well, now I
love myself. I can do so

799
01:09:30.640 --> 01:09:32.439
much more than I've realized I could. I can live my life in a

800
01:09:32.479 --> 01:09:36.399
completely different way to somebody like I
was when I was twenty eight and prior

801
01:09:36.439 --> 01:09:41.880
to that, who just felt he
needed to hide himself away and not be

802
01:09:42.000 --> 01:09:45.439
seen, you know. And so
it's fat I like your analogy of cleaning

803
01:09:45.560 --> 01:09:49.920
the mind. That is the I
don't know if you want to say a

804
01:09:50.039 --> 01:09:58.840
tractor, but one of the major
major causations for a cancer setting into someone

805
01:09:59.199 --> 01:10:04.960
and and to get an eighty percent
clearing of that, then I guess it

806
01:10:05.119 --> 01:10:12.760
allows the body to begin healing.
See that right right there, that that

807
01:10:12.880 --> 01:10:18.319
would be a great area to study
to see what people how people heal.

808
01:10:19.279 --> 01:10:24.359
Sure, And that's what that's what
I work on primarily, that part of

809
01:10:24.439 --> 01:10:28.279
it. And as I tell some
people, is you know, the when

810
01:10:28.319 --> 01:10:32.279
the depth of healing is stronger than
the cause of ill health, you embark

811
01:10:32.319 --> 01:10:35.920
on a path of healing. When
the depth of healing is stronger than the

812
01:10:36.039 --> 01:10:42.119
cause of ill health, you embark
on a part of healing. That's what

813
01:10:42.399 --> 01:10:47.520
that's what I help people do to
to allow their body to enter that state

814
01:10:48.479 --> 01:10:53.000
that is stronger than the cause of
ill health. Then they heal, and

815
01:10:53.399 --> 01:10:56.680
people heal very quickly. That's the
thing with Sharmanism. It's been around for

816
01:10:57.439 --> 01:11:00.520
one hundred thousand years because it works. You know, the back our ancestors

817
01:11:00.720 --> 01:11:04.600
that were being you know, struggling
to survive with all these you know,

818
01:11:05.680 --> 01:11:10.960
saber tooth tigers, chasing tigers chasing
around them and you know, killing their

819
01:11:11.039 --> 01:11:14.199
kids. They didn't have time to
sit around in and ice you. They

820
01:11:14.279 --> 01:11:18.720
had to heal really quickly. And
Sharman's and develop form that need to heal

821
01:11:18.800 --> 01:11:23.640
quickly. So you know, I
OSCAR will help you to heal quickly,

822
01:11:23.920 --> 01:11:30.720
possibly if you do what's required to
integrate the process or the benefits of yah

823
01:11:30.720 --> 01:11:33.159
OSCAR in my session, I tend
to want to see people three times,

824
01:11:33.560 --> 01:11:40.640
but the path of healing tends to
become stronger than course health in the in

825
01:11:40.760 --> 01:11:45.479
the first session. And with cancer, if you start to heal somebody with

826
01:11:45.640 --> 01:11:51.760
cancer, you tend to it tends
to cancer will read generate less uh cancer

827
01:11:51.920 --> 01:11:56.960
cells over time, so that but
you know, so you may not recover

828
01:11:57.079 --> 01:12:02.880
immediately, but you will recover in
the long term, hopefully as the cancer

829
01:12:02.920 --> 01:12:12.239
cells regenerate in a healthy state.
Interesting. One of the things that Graham

830
01:12:12.439 --> 01:12:23.920
Hancock talks about is that he was
needed a creative push and he had never

831
01:12:24.000 --> 01:12:30.960
written fiction before, and through an
ayahuasca journey, he was told and actually

832
01:12:31.079 --> 01:12:38.680
given the data. He actually downloaded
data to write a series of nonfiction books,

833
01:12:38.680 --> 01:12:42.239
and he was very surprised at that. Can you talk a little bit

834
01:12:42.279 --> 01:12:48.600
about how one would go about doing
that? I guess you would intend to

835
01:12:48.720 --> 01:12:55.680
have a creative input, But you
actually talk about the Akashak records the Akashak

836
01:12:55.800 --> 01:12:59.880
field in your book a little bit. Do you think that's what is happening

837
01:13:00.119 --> 01:13:02.800
with that kind of a request,
is that you're going up and you are

838
01:13:02.920 --> 01:13:10.319
tapping into this universal database. Yeah, you know, I believe that there

839
01:13:10.399 --> 01:13:15.520
was a unified field of consciousness and
that everything has already been written and it's

840
01:13:15.560 --> 01:13:21.600
accessible in that field. Graham Graham
being a very prolific experience writer, that's

841
01:13:21.720 --> 01:13:28.359
his focus. So he's he's he's
more likely to focus on that than somebody

842
01:13:28.399 --> 01:13:31.199
that's never written, so he's more
like he's to receive that information, but

843
01:13:31.279 --> 01:13:35.279
that that information every there's a view
that everything that will ever be written has

844
01:13:35.319 --> 01:13:39.520
already been written. And I know
that when I was writing my book,

845
01:13:39.840 --> 01:13:45.319
I was putting information out. You
know, I didn't have a journal that

846
01:13:45.359 --> 01:13:47.399
I was putting that information from.
I was just getting it from memory,

847
01:13:47.479 --> 01:13:53.399
memory, memory, memories coming back, and you know, like how I

848
01:13:53.439 --> 01:13:57.079
could best serve people with this book
as somebody who's never written a book before.

849
01:13:57.279 --> 01:14:01.560
It was kind of like presented to
me from that field, you know,

850
01:14:01.760 --> 01:14:05.600
And because I had the interest,
that's what we're focused was a lot

851
01:14:05.640 --> 01:14:11.000
of people, you know, that
are into UFOs are more likely to have

852
01:14:11.920 --> 01:14:16.359
extraterrestrial type experiences. People that are
into much more sort, let's say Christianity,

853
01:14:16.399 --> 01:14:23.600
are much more likely to have transcendent
experiences related to Christianity and meet angels

854
01:14:23.680 --> 01:14:27.159
and Jesus and things like that.
So a lot of it depends how you

855
01:14:27.239 --> 01:14:30.159
go into the ceremony. You know, you can have your head completely blown

856
01:14:30.159 --> 01:14:32.600
open like a lot of people that
go in to ceremony. The atheists,

857
01:14:32.600 --> 01:14:38.760
I don't believe in superior power,
will experience a superior power and have their

858
01:14:38.800 --> 01:14:45.960
life forever changed. I liken it
to you know, ND experiences like the

859
01:14:45.319 --> 01:14:49.000
near death experiences a lot of people. Once they die, they enter in

860
01:14:49.079 --> 01:14:56.560
a way that unified field of consciousness
and they connect with the more divine you

861
01:14:56.600 --> 01:15:00.479
know, experience of reality. Their
life is forever change. Then they stopped

862
01:15:00.479 --> 01:15:03.439
believing in God and in a state
until they had the experience that they would

863
01:15:03.479 --> 01:15:08.640
never believe, you know, their
mind wouldn't allow them to believe anything other

864
01:15:08.680 --> 01:15:11.279
than what they you know, they
believed. So yeah, I think a

865
01:15:11.319 --> 01:15:14.760
lot of it is to do with
how you going to the ceremony and what

866
01:15:14.840 --> 01:15:19.000
your belief systems are. The book
is al chemical ayahuasca. My guest today

867
01:15:19.000 --> 01:15:25.520
has been Alan Francis wis Uh.
You just brought up an interesting point,

868
01:15:25.760 --> 01:15:31.079
Alan, You said, people who
are interested in UFOs or ets have some

869
01:15:31.239 --> 01:15:36.079
form of contact. Is that something
that you've experienced yourself? Or have you

870
01:15:36.199 --> 01:15:42.840
been in a ceremony where somebody has
an experience of speaking with an et?

871
01:15:43.920 --> 01:15:51.279
Yeah, you know, people do
experience communication with uh strange strange creatures and

872
01:15:51.680 --> 01:16:05.840
humans or humanoids or you know,
unusual visual experiences of vibratory symmetry or something

873
01:16:05.920 --> 01:16:11.880
that that reminds them or takes into
to the belief that they're communicating with people

874
01:16:11.960 --> 01:16:17.039
not just from otherwise but other other
dimensional realities. I having lived in Mount

875
01:16:17.079 --> 01:16:23.119
Schester for seven years, I've seen
a lot of UFO activity is very real

876
01:16:23.239 --> 01:16:27.359
there. You do see that.
And I have a belief in in,

877
01:16:27.800 --> 01:16:31.720
you know, the fact that we're
in a universe that is full of life,

878
01:16:32.039 --> 01:16:38.239
and whether it's in the three dimensional
way that we perceive it or whether

879
01:16:38.279 --> 01:16:43.159
it's in under the multi dimensional states. I tend to engage more in those

880
01:16:43.920 --> 01:16:49.960
other states of consciousness in my experiences. So I'm engaging with you know,

881
01:16:51.640 --> 01:16:59.720
animals or anthropomorphic shapes part animal,
part human that you know, give me

882
01:16:59.800 --> 01:17:02.399
teas or actually do healing work on
me. So I do that. So

883
01:17:02.840 --> 01:17:06.039
yeah, I mean I've heard the
whole sort of range of experiences with people

884
01:17:06.119 --> 01:17:14.600
with extraterrestrials, with the grays,
the reptilians, and angels, benevolent and

885
01:17:15.119 --> 01:17:24.119
both benevolent and malevolent entities or energies. As we conclude, would you say

886
01:17:24.680 --> 01:17:27.439
that, I mean, you talked
about a lot of your workers with healing,

887
01:17:27.600 --> 01:17:30.279
because that's what you are, and
you've acknowledge that you're a healer,

888
01:17:30.439 --> 01:17:34.720
so you're probably going to get clients
that are looking for mental, spiritual,

889
01:17:35.479 --> 01:17:45.159
and physical healing. But if someone
is interested in perhaps bringing through a new

890
01:17:45.479 --> 01:17:48.479
device, a new book, a
new movie, or something like that,

891
01:17:49.920 --> 01:17:56.359
is ayahuasca a good tool for that
type of creativity? Yeah. A lot

892
01:17:56.399 --> 01:18:01.079
of people have written books, have
created films as a result of not just

893
01:18:01.119 --> 01:18:08.920
diyroscobs to the cyber and you know, other entheogenic or psychedelic plants. Yeah,

894
01:18:08.960 --> 01:18:12.760
there's you know, there was a
there's a view that uh, I

895
01:18:12.880 --> 01:18:15.079
know Steve Jobs, he would get
he would have a room full of his

896
01:18:15.199 --> 01:18:19.319
designers all on on LSD and they'd
come up with the best designs because because

897
01:18:19.359 --> 01:18:28.279
your your mind couldn't create or can
even perceive of the technology that he wanted

898
01:18:28.720 --> 01:18:32.560
people to start creating in his company, And so he'd give them LSD and

899
01:18:32.640 --> 01:18:39.800
then they'd figure out how to create
what they had perceived is true. No,

900
01:18:39.920 --> 01:18:41.760
that's the truth. That's the truth. Yeah, that's the truth.

901
01:18:42.560 --> 01:18:46.159
Give his engineers no, no,
no, this is the truth. This

902
01:18:46.319 --> 01:18:48.960
is the truth. And and like
how do people come up with the iPod?

903
01:18:49.039 --> 01:18:53.159
You know, all those tunes inside
that little box that's probably from as

904
01:18:53.199 --> 01:18:55.920
a result of LSD, but it's
well known that he would he himself and

905
01:18:56.560 --> 01:19:00.880
his primary engineers would take LSD to
you know, be able to perceive of

906
01:19:01.119 --> 01:19:05.560
something so advanced they couldn't think it. They had to think with a more

907
01:19:05.640 --> 01:19:11.319
advance of level of consciousness, which
was so Yeah, Ioscar will help you

908
01:19:11.399 --> 01:19:15.840
to do that as well. Definitely
amazing, Alan, It's been a pleasure

909
01:19:15.640 --> 01:19:20.159
ye give. Your book has been
out. You can get it on Amazon.

910
01:19:21.000 --> 01:19:29.159
But your your website is alchemicaliahuasca dot
com. Correct? Correct? What

911
01:19:29.279 --> 01:19:32.640
can people find out your website?
They can find a bit more about the

912
01:19:32.680 --> 01:19:35.199
book. They can also find out
how to contact me. I do have

913
01:19:35.319 --> 01:19:40.000
other websites, but that's the best
one to contact me with via info at

914
01:19:40.159 --> 01:19:45.760
Alchemic alchemicaliahuasca dot com and then on
that website there's a link tree to other

915
01:19:46.399 --> 01:19:49.520
offerings that we have in different landing
pages, so they can find that.

916
01:19:50.239 --> 01:19:58.079
My wife, Diana, she usually
has a co a pre consultation call.

917
01:19:58.199 --> 01:20:01.000
When people contact us, She'll usually
call them up to find out what it

918
01:20:01.159 --> 01:20:04.920
is that they need. We also
so we operate primarily in Ecuador. We

919
01:20:05.000 --> 01:20:12.439
have a retreat center brand new boutique
retreat center where we offer in person classes

920
01:20:12.560 --> 01:20:17.760
on reiki, Sharmanism and also Ayahuascar
ceremonies and San Pedro ceremonies, which is

921
01:20:18.199 --> 01:20:23.039
sacred cactus. But we also have
a satellite in Manchester where we work with

922
01:20:23.119 --> 01:20:25.920
other healers. If people can't make
the trip down here, we can help

923
01:20:25.960 --> 01:20:29.640
pair them up with different healers up
there. Not anybody that does Iowa.

924
01:20:30.319 --> 01:20:35.159
We can't refer people to the Iyaoascar
in the United States because it's still legal

925
01:20:36.079 --> 01:20:41.039
illegal sorry, in most areas,
so we can't recommend that. That's one

926
01:20:41.039 --> 01:20:43.560
of the reasons we move down here
so that we could do it provide a

927
01:20:43.600 --> 01:20:49.199
safer space rather than doing it under
the radar. Have you been trained to

928
01:20:49.359 --> 01:20:57.680
do your own ayahuasco formulations? Yeah, I've been trained. Again, as

929
01:20:57.680 --> 01:21:00.680
I said before, I tend to
buy it because it's just the raw ingredients

930
01:21:01.479 --> 01:21:04.520
too difficult to get you can guess
you get it from Hawaii now, but

931
01:21:04.640 --> 01:21:10.119
you need so much of it that
it works out too expensive to have it

932
01:21:10.199 --> 01:21:13.600
shipped, and also it may not
make it through customs. So and even

933
01:21:13.680 --> 01:21:17.119
ayahuasca is really hard to get through
the United States customs nowadays. Another reason

934
01:21:17.119 --> 01:21:20.319
why I'm moved to Ecuador as well, so it's more accessible. You'll get

935
01:21:20.359 --> 01:21:26.760
the you'll get the liquid formula all
ready to go. I did in the

936
01:21:26.840 --> 01:21:30.119
US. I did that here here
I can make it myself because I have

937
01:21:30.239 --> 01:21:34.760
access to the ingred raw ingredients.
Amazing. Hey, well, wonderful,

938
01:21:35.039 --> 01:21:40.920
great speaking with you, Alan,
And for those of you listen listening,

939
01:21:42.199 --> 01:21:46.479
it's got a lot of great details. So now you have Alan's contact information

940
01:21:46.640 --> 01:21:50.359
in Ecuador. If you're interested in
more information, go to the source.

941
01:21:51.479 --> 01:21:55.760
So hey, success on this new
book. D Thank you so much.

942
01:21:57.279 --> 01:21:59.800
Thank you, Cliff, I really
appreciate it. Thanks for all the questions.

943
01:22:03.159 --> 01:22:08.640
If you want to know more about
ayahuasca, Graham's book Visionary is good.

944
01:22:09.239 --> 01:22:13.600
This new book, al Chemical Ayahuasca
goes through some of the process.

945
01:22:14.279 --> 01:22:16.840
And then Rick Straussman, doctor Straussman, who we've had on the show very

946
01:22:17.199 --> 01:22:27.119
a number of times as a DMT
book which is excellent and describes ayahuasca journeying.

947
01:22:28.399 --> 01:22:32.000
I think it's a fascinating process.
I think it is far superior than

948
01:22:32.119 --> 01:22:40.079
taking drugs from the medical established,
the pharmaceutical establishment. Most of these drugs

949
01:22:40.159 --> 01:22:50.239
for depression are horrific and our country
I'm talking about the United States is given

950
01:22:50.359 --> 01:22:57.520
so many drugs and suggested to take
so many different drugs that is just terrible

951
01:22:57.600 --> 01:23:01.119
on the body, really different,
really challenge in the body. So anyhow,

952
01:23:01.159 --> 01:23:06.279
I hope you enjoyed that and got
something out of the program. Hey,

953
01:23:06.319 --> 01:23:10.680
I want to mention that we do
a number of tours every year,

954
01:23:11.359 --> 01:23:14.319
and we have one that we've added. We haven't been in Mexico for a

955
01:23:14.439 --> 01:23:18.600
few years now. We've been going
to Egypt quite regularly, but we because

956
01:23:18.640 --> 01:23:24.119
of COVID, we weren't in Mexico
in November November eighth through the twelfth,

957
01:23:24.159 --> 01:23:30.319
we're doing our Ancient Mayan cities of
the Yucatan Peninsula of Mexico. And this

958
01:23:30.560 --> 01:23:35.199
is a great tour because this small
area is home to some of the most

959
01:23:36.479 --> 01:23:42.359
brilliant cities ancient cities. We're talking
about, of course the most famous Chichi

960
01:23:42.439 --> 01:23:46.159
Nitza, but there's a lot of
smaller cities that are not as well known

961
01:23:46.840 --> 01:23:53.840
that I've known about for years,
and that includes ushmol Ek, Balam Miapan

962
01:23:54.199 --> 01:23:59.560
and many many others that will be
visiting in this short one week tour.

963
01:24:00.279 --> 01:24:04.319
For more information in the full light
itinerary go to Earth Ancients dot com Forward

964
01:24:04.399 --> 01:24:10.479
slash Tours, and I got to
mention this, this tour allows us to

965
01:24:10.600 --> 01:24:15.880
actually climb pyramids. Many other places
that we go to do not allow pyramid

966
01:24:16.199 --> 01:24:24.239
access or even the temple access.
This part of Mexico is great because they

967
01:24:24.399 --> 01:24:29.560
want people to participate, to connect
with these pyramids, with these temples,

968
01:24:29.600 --> 01:24:32.359
and I gotta tell you, this
is my all time favorite place to visit

969
01:24:32.600 --> 01:24:39.600
with pyramids, to engage them,
and we'll do a number of meditative ceremonies

970
01:24:39.640 --> 01:24:45.560
around these to get a sense of
what was there and also help you open

971
01:24:45.640 --> 01:24:49.359
to creativity, to healing, to
greater awareness of your surroundings. Again,

972
01:24:50.039 --> 01:24:56.760
this is the Ancient Maya Cities Tour
November eighth through the seventeenth, twenty twenty

973
01:24:56.800 --> 01:25:00.960
four. For more info and the
full lightenerary, go to Earth Ancients dot

974
01:25:00.039 --> 01:25:04.319
com Forward slash Tours look for that
banner, Click it and you'll see all

975
01:25:04.359 --> 01:25:09.239
the details and all the information.
By the way, we're also gonna be

976
01:25:09.520 --> 01:25:14.600
in Turkey. If you're interested in
that tour, I think we're about ninety

977
01:25:14.640 --> 01:25:17.840
percent full. Go to Earth Ancients
dot com Forward slash Tour look for the

978
01:25:17.960 --> 01:25:25.720
Turkey Tour banner that sounds kind of
funny and check it out and the itinerary

979
01:25:25.840 --> 01:25:30.119
is there. If you have any
questions on any of our tours, send

980
01:25:30.159 --> 01:25:35.199
me an email at Earth Ancients for
you at gmail dot com and I'll get

981
01:25:35.239 --> 01:25:40.479
back to you. We are working
on a number of fabulous tours in twenty

982
01:25:40.560 --> 01:25:45.439
twenty five, including a tour at
Easter Island and guess who's going to be

983
01:25:45.520 --> 01:25:50.039
leading that, Doctor Edwin Barnhardt will
be joining us there. And we're also

984
01:25:50.960 --> 01:25:55.800
got a fabulous tour that is confirmed. Can't really talk about it, but

985
01:25:56.000 --> 01:26:00.439
I'm just gonna say it's gonna be
in Guatemala, and Guatemala's having a lot

986
01:26:00.479 --> 01:26:06.920
of problems lately. This is going
to be the tour and tical and the

987
01:26:08.039 --> 01:26:11.920
surrounding cities. That's going to be
in November of twenty twenty five, So

988
01:26:12.079 --> 01:26:16.319
there's a ton of tours. Doctor
ed Barnhardt, who we've had on numerous

989
01:26:16.399 --> 01:26:23.920
times, just led a great tour
in November of Polanke and the neighboring ruins

990
01:26:23.960 --> 01:26:28.520
there. Fabulous, fabulous tour and
it's great to go with somebody who's either

991
01:26:28.640 --> 01:26:33.000
excavated it, knows about it through
other archaeologists and also has a bent towards

992
01:26:33.079 --> 01:26:38.239
our point of view here on Earth, Ancients and Destiny, so all of

993
01:26:38.319 --> 01:26:44.399
our tours are on Earth Ancients dot
Com forward slash Tours. All right,

994
01:26:44.479 --> 01:26:46.640
that's it for this program. I
want to thank my guest today, Alan

995
01:26:46.840 --> 01:26:53.199
Francis Wall and his new book al
Chemical Ayahuasca. As always, the team

996
01:26:53.319 --> 01:26:58.159
of Gail Tour, Mark Foster,
and everyone who makes this thing happen.

997
01:26:59.039 --> 01:27:02.279
You guys rock all right, take
care of you well and we will talk

998
01:27:02.359 --> 01:28:03.840
to you next time. I mo