WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.120 --> 00:00:04.160 Welcome to Backing your Leadership. I'm Chris and Lorenzo, and welcome to this 2 00:00:04.200 --> 00:00:08.039 week's Thoughtful Thursday. Don't forget to follow us on YouTube at Hacking your Leadership 3 00:00:08.039 --> 00:00:11.439 and leave us a review on iTunes. On this s Thoughtful Thursday, I 4 00:00:11.439 --> 00:00:15.359 want to go over something. You know, we've been talking about the some 5 00:00:15.519 --> 00:00:20.199 dysfunctional team elements and you know, the things that would lead to a team 6 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:24.280 being dysfunctional versus high performing. Starting on Monday, and we had some people 7 00:00:24.320 --> 00:00:30.079 reach out to us on Instagram and LinkedIn on a specific element they wanted to 8 00:00:30.160 --> 00:00:33.359 hear more about. And I thought it was a it's something that we touched 9 00:00:33.399 --> 00:00:36.200 on, and I didn't think it was going to be something that people wanted 10 00:00:36.200 --> 00:00:39.679 to hear more about. But but you know, our our listeners speak. 11 00:00:40.799 --> 00:00:45.240 Something I specifically said around one of the things that could lead to a team 12 00:00:45.479 --> 00:00:51.359 lacking trust is that when team members don't have their strengths leveraged, but in 13 00:00:51.399 --> 00:00:55.640 actuality, you're really more putting people doing things in line with their interests. 14 00:00:56.240 --> 00:01:00.520 And that seemed to strike a chord with some people who are working on teams 15 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:07.439 where it might seem that their coworkers are being put in roles or doing things 16 00:01:08.040 --> 00:01:12.760 that they want to do more so than in roles and in spaces where they 17 00:01:12.760 --> 00:01:18.079 are good at doing something. And this is a tough one because you know, 18 00:01:18.120 --> 00:01:22.079 I'm a big believer in putting people, you know, increasing the number 19 00:01:22.120 --> 00:01:27.040 of hours people have every week that that have them doing things they enjoy doing. 20 00:01:27.640 --> 00:01:30.920 But sometimes the things that we enjoy doing and sometimes and the things that 21 00:01:30.959 --> 00:01:34.200 we are good at doing, they don't always line up. What are your 22 00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:37.560 thoughts about this? Yeah, I agree, I think it's a it's a 23 00:01:37.599 --> 00:01:41.439 tough one because in the perfect world and how we look at things is like, 24 00:01:41.560 --> 00:01:45.079 not only are you like enjoying the things you're doing, but you're also 25 00:01:45.079 --> 00:01:48.760 really good at it. Right. But if that's the case, right, 26 00:01:48.840 --> 00:01:52.840 like, um, then it's kind of like you should have that is like 27 00:01:52.879 --> 00:01:56.040 your life, your life's body of work, whatever that thing is. Right. 28 00:01:56.400 --> 00:01:59.519 I think in a lot of instances, what ends up happening, and 29 00:01:59.560 --> 00:02:01.640 I've seen myself as well, is that you have somebody who is like, 30 00:02:02.719 --> 00:02:07.439 I am really focused, I am really productive when I get to do this 31 00:02:07.520 --> 00:02:13.360 thing because this is actually all I want to do. And and again it's 32 00:02:13.479 --> 00:02:16.439 not that it's a natural strength it's just that they really enjoy doing it, 33 00:02:16.479 --> 00:02:21.680 so they put much more effort into it, which then from a leadership standpoint, 34 00:02:21.719 --> 00:02:23.639 you're like, well, like why would I move them or why would 35 00:02:23.680 --> 00:02:28.159 I add something different to their plate? Or I know that they part of 36 00:02:28.159 --> 00:02:30.639 their jobs like do this other thing, but I'm just going to have them 37 00:02:30.680 --> 00:02:36.039 focus on that, because like that just makes my life easier, you know. 38 00:02:36.360 --> 00:02:38.879 And so I think that that kind of that lens of looking at things, 39 00:02:39.319 --> 00:02:44.199 I think when we're talking about building trust through a team, that is 40 00:02:44.240 --> 00:02:46.599 where it can start to break down a little bit, as if you start 41 00:02:46.639 --> 00:02:50.520 to see or feel the sense of like, well, it's because you don't 42 00:02:50.520 --> 00:02:53.319 want to have like a healthy amount of dialogue with this person about it. 43 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:58.560 It's because you're not having the same standard across the board. Just because somebody 44 00:02:58.599 --> 00:03:01.240 has an interest in that, it doesn't mean they should just be able to 45 00:03:01.240 --> 00:03:05.319 do it. And then vice versa. Though sometimes there's people that have a 46 00:03:05.400 --> 00:03:07.840 strength to something, they're naturally really really good at it, and they actually 47 00:03:07.879 --> 00:03:12.479 don't want to do it, and so you have to have the same kind 48 00:03:12.520 --> 00:03:15.599 of conversation in the other side of things to be like no, but I 49 00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:19.120 understand, but it's also a part of your job. So it's like it's 50 00:03:19.159 --> 00:03:23.719 one of those situations where I think we mix up the idea of strength and 51 00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:28.319 interest, and we say that somebody's interested in something and that's a strength of 52 00:03:28.319 --> 00:03:35.560 theirs versus truly taking an assessment of what the strengths naturally are and then having 53 00:03:35.599 --> 00:03:39.840 conversation with everyone involved around how do we align best what works well for our 54 00:03:39.960 --> 00:03:45.039 team, bringing them into that dialogue and conversation, but then making sure that 55 00:03:45.039 --> 00:03:47.560 you have consistency across the expectations of the job. I have found that in 56 00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:53.919 a lot of instances, when a person is really interested in something, they 57 00:03:53.039 --> 00:03:59.560 enjoy doing it and they're not good at it, that in a lot of 58 00:03:59.599 --> 00:04:06.280 cases is they don't have a accurate understanding of what that thing is, meaning 59 00:04:06.400 --> 00:04:12.560 they're interested in it because they believe it to be something different than it actually 60 00:04:12.680 --> 00:04:17.040 is. You have people out there who say I love coaching people. I 61 00:04:17.120 --> 00:04:23.439 love you know, giving people feedback on what they're doing. Okay, let's 62 00:04:23.600 --> 00:04:26.959 let's see how you do that well. If they're not doing it very well, 63 00:04:27.600 --> 00:04:30.680 then and then you tell them what the right way is to do that, 64 00:04:30.759 --> 00:04:33.920 what that entails to be able to give feedback to somebody to able to 65 00:04:33.959 --> 00:04:39.319 coach them on doing something, and the reaction is I don't, I don't, 66 00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:42.879 I don't want to do that. Well that that doesn't mean that they 67 00:04:43.000 --> 00:04:46.120 are interested in doing something and they're not good at it. It means they're 68 00:04:46.120 --> 00:04:48.759 not actually interested in doing that thing. You know, they think it's something 69 00:04:48.879 --> 00:04:53.360 different than what it actually is. And a lot of times people will, 70 00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:56.199 I don't want to say, lie to themselves. They just have an inaccurate 71 00:04:56.279 --> 00:04:59.120 understanding of what it is. They think it's something different than what it is. 72 00:04:59.160 --> 00:05:02.360 So as a leader, oftentimes you can kind of, you know, 73 00:05:02.920 --> 00:05:08.000 get people more in line with the things they like doing and the things that 74 00:05:08.040 --> 00:05:13.000 they are good at doing by by having these kind of clarity sessions, you 75 00:05:13.040 --> 00:05:15.360 know, kind of figuring out why people want to do something if they're not 76 00:05:15.399 --> 00:05:19.879 good at it, and making sure they're very clear on what that thing is. 77 00:05:20.519 --> 00:05:26.639 Because if you want to leverage somebody's strengths, nothing feels better than having 78 00:05:26.680 --> 00:05:30.759 a strength of your as leveraged to do something that you enjoy doing. And 79 00:05:30.639 --> 00:05:35.720 by allowing people to do things poorly simply because they enjoy doing it, you're 80 00:05:35.759 --> 00:05:40.720 not you're not benefiting them because one they're not building up their their resume, 81 00:05:40.839 --> 00:05:45.120 they're not actually doing the thing that will help their career. And two you're 82 00:05:45.160 --> 00:05:48.639 absolutely hurting the trust of your team, which says you, as a leader 83 00:05:48.680 --> 00:05:53.240 put a stronger or a higher value on people doing what they want to do 84 00:05:53.600 --> 00:05:56.120 versus what actually has to get done in or to get the results you want 85 00:05:56.120 --> 00:05:58.800 to get done. And so what I'll ask you, Lorenzo, is have 86 00:05:58.879 --> 00:06:01.759 you ever to have a conversation with an employee around this exact thing, around 87 00:06:01.920 --> 00:06:06.839 making sure that they, you know, understood what something really was and then 88 00:06:06.920 --> 00:06:10.759 getting a kind of a response from them that led you to believe that, 89 00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:13.879 you know what, maybe they weren't quite as interested in doing that thing as 90 00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:15.560 they thought they were interested in doing it. And so I want to ask 91 00:06:15.560 --> 00:06:17.199 you that, but first I want to give it up towards one of our 92 00:06:17.199 --> 00:06:21.240 sponsors. All Right, Lorenzo, have you ever had an employee say they 93 00:06:21.279 --> 00:06:26.079 were really wanted to do something and you let them do it and it wasn't 94 00:06:26.079 --> 00:06:29.480 getting done the correct way and you had to kind of level set with what 95 00:06:29.519 --> 00:06:32.160 that thing actually was and then they kind of maybe backtracked a little bit and 96 00:06:32.199 --> 00:06:36.079 said, Okay, this might not be for me, Yes, multiple times. 97 00:06:36.120 --> 00:06:41.079 I think two times stick out to me specifically. I think in the 98 00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:46.639 development space, it's typically when you have somebody who is a high performing individual 99 00:06:46.680 --> 00:06:51.279 contributor that has a lot of thoughts and opinions around everyone else around them and 100 00:06:51.399 --> 00:06:56.040 their ability to perform, and then providing them with an opportunity to lead, 101 00:06:56.399 --> 00:07:00.360 you know, in a kind of maybe a formal way or sometimes type of 102 00:07:00.360 --> 00:07:02.959 a you know, an assignment that's temporary, but say like okay, cool, 103 00:07:03.160 --> 00:07:06.279 So like now what I'm gonna have you do is step back and lead 104 00:07:06.319 --> 00:07:13.800 the team and be responsible for the greater productivity of everyone. And because you're 105 00:07:13.920 --> 00:07:16.160 a great individual contributor to do a great job, you should be able to 106 00:07:16.160 --> 00:07:18.839 teach them how to do it. And then what you find out a lot 107 00:07:18.879 --> 00:07:23.279 of times it's like, oh wow, I didn't realize that was actually the 108 00:07:23.399 --> 00:07:28.920 responsibility. I didn't realize how many people have so many questions about different things. 109 00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:31.000 I didn't realize that when you ask people to do something a certain way, 110 00:07:31.199 --> 00:07:33.360 they tend to do it the way that they want to. And so 111 00:07:33.399 --> 00:07:38.759 you kind of have these aha moments where it's like okay, Like the leadership 112 00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:43.360 element and the ability to lead a team is very different than being the person 113 00:07:43.399 --> 00:07:46.120 who's doing the work to produce a certain outcome. I think. So that's 114 00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:49.160 the first thing, and the second one is also kind of being in retail 115 00:07:50.120 --> 00:07:55.879 my entire career is you always kind of have this element of like the kind 116 00:07:55.879 --> 00:08:03.879 of the merchandizing, visual kind of responsibility, stocking of inventory, responsibilities that 117 00:08:03.920 --> 00:08:09.759 are a part of retail stores. And sometimes there's this um maybe lack of 118 00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:13.560 understanding that like when you when you work in an industry like retail, like 119 00:08:13.959 --> 00:08:20.199 everybody should be able to and should always focus on helping customers, and sometimes 120 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:24.680 the tasks that you have or the role that you have is one that requires 121 00:08:24.720 --> 00:08:31.399 a good amount of focus around certain tasks. With those tasks are never to 122 00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:37.440 supersed taking care of a customer, um one way or another one you can, 123 00:08:37.559 --> 00:08:39.440 and of course you have resources, you have peers, you can point 124 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:43.799 to them. But I think sometimes people go into those roles with this idea 125 00:08:43.840 --> 00:08:48.039 of like, well, I'm just gonna like be so much more productive and 126 00:08:48.080 --> 00:08:50.200 so much more efficient, and like we're just going to be responsible for what 127 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:54.679 we're responsible for, which is this thing, this pricing, this merchandising, 128 00:08:54.799 --> 00:08:58.360 this this down stocking, this this fronting of product, whatever you want to 129 00:08:58.360 --> 00:09:01.960 call it, these tasks, and then they get a role like that, 130 00:09:03.039 --> 00:09:05.559 and you sprinkling the fact that you still have to you know, help customers 131 00:09:05.559 --> 00:09:09.639 that have questions and you know, be involved with your peers around teaching them 132 00:09:09.679 --> 00:09:13.200 what you're doing and what you're learning. And sometimes that becomes a thing where 133 00:09:13.240 --> 00:09:18.879 it's like, well, that's a very different job or different level of responsibility 134 00:09:18.879 --> 00:09:22.320 than I thought it was. Initially. I only saw it in this very 135 00:09:22.600 --> 00:09:28.320 kind of small lens of the responsibility to think that I really wanted to do, 136 00:09:28.519 --> 00:09:30.279 and it's like, well, yeah, that's a part of it, 137 00:09:30.480 --> 00:09:33.240 but the job is much bigger than that, right right. I think there 138 00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:39.679 that can be a pretty common occurrence in the retail and service industry where people 139 00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:48.639 don't actually want to be in the retailer service industry and they find this kind 140 00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:52.159 of like little tiny element of the job that they that they like doing that 141 00:09:52.279 --> 00:09:56.879 has nothing to do with why the organization exists to begin with, which is 142 00:09:58.279 --> 00:10:01.279 because there are customers who want to to talk to you or clients who want 143 00:10:01.320 --> 00:10:05.080 to talk to you, and it is a retail or a service oriented job. 144 00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:13.000 Every job in a retail or industry, job is a customer service job, 145 00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:16.279 every single one of them. That is customer facing of course everyone. 146 00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:22.879 And so if you have employees who don't want to do that, that's kind 147 00:10:22.919 --> 00:10:26.200 of a cost of admission. And if you can have people who are good 148 00:10:26.200 --> 00:10:31.039 at other things too, and you can put them in spaces where they can 149 00:10:31.080 --> 00:10:35.919 do more of those things, but at some point in time there will there 150 00:10:35.960 --> 00:10:41.159 will be a time or multiple times where everybody has to come together and do 151 00:10:41.519 --> 00:10:45.840 why the business exists to begin with, which is to help customers. And 152 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:50.320 if you have people who don't like doing that, it's a disservice to your 153 00:10:50.360 --> 00:10:56.120 team and to the building of trust of the team to kind of allow those 154 00:10:56.120 --> 00:11:00.919 people to kind of hang on those little elements they like doing and to not 155 00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:05.600 do well at that core thing. The core thing is the cake. The 156 00:11:05.639 --> 00:11:09.320 other thing is the icing. And so if you're a leader and you and 157 00:11:09.399 --> 00:11:11.639 you're finding people who are good at these other things, be very careful about 158 00:11:11.639 --> 00:11:16.440 this. Be careful that you're not giving them or an out or looking for 159 00:11:16.759 --> 00:11:22.480 a way to keep them away from the core part of your business because they're 160 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:26.480 not very good at it. By by filling their day with these other things, 161 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:30.720 because eventually those other things will run out and it will be glaringly obvious 162 00:11:30.799 --> 00:11:33.840 that they are not good at the whole reason their job exists to begin with. 163 00:11:33.919 --> 00:11:39.840 So definitely a reason that a lot of a lot of teams lack trust 164 00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:43.360 is when leaders kind of find these different spaces for people to play that have 165 00:11:43.399 --> 00:11:46.440 nothing to do with why they're supposed to be there. Absolutely and with that 166 00:11:46.519 --> 00:11:50.159 it brings us to the end of this episode. This is hacking leadership. 167 00:11:50.200 --> 00:11:52.039 I'm Lorenzo and I'm Chris, and have a great day.