What's up y'all is Drusky and I've teamed up with Mountain Dew to produce a hilarious new basketball podcast called The due Zone with Drusky. Learn the backstories of your favorite balls and celebrities like Jamal Murray. Did you have like a favorite team? Was it the Raptors at the time or no? Was the Raptors even started around the topic? Come on, Brode like I'm fifty, Taylor Rogues, Asian Wilson, and any more. You won't want to miss this. Listen to The due Zone with Drusky on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you listen to podcasts. This podcast episode is brought to you by Coors Light. These days, everything is go, go go. It's NonStop hustle all the time. Work, friends, family, expect you to be on twenty four to seven. Well, sometimes you just need to reach for a Coors Light because it's made to chill. Corse Light is cold loggered, cold filtered, and cold package. It's as crisp and refreshing as the Colorado Rockies. He's literally made to chill. Corse Light is the one I choose when I need to unwind. So when you want to hit reset, reach for the beer that's made to chill. Get Coors Light in the new look, delivered straight to your door with Drizzly your instant cart. Celebrate responsibly Coors Brewing Company, Golden Colorado. Hello everyone, and welcome to the latest episode of Hardwood Knocks. This is Adam Frommel here with my fantastic co host Dan for Valley. Before diving deeper into any of what we'll be talking about today, Dan, how's it going relative to the world burning around us? I have minimal complaints myself. How about yourself? I get that, I get that it is. It's been a weird time, and I think like this podcast in a lot of ways is like a microcosm of the world in general, where we're kind of going to ignore the COVID nineteen cases that are rampaging throughout the league and causing postponements of games and possibly forcing the NBA to think about like just pushing games back entirely until things are more under control and instead just talk about the top rookies in this twenty twenty draft class. So for this episode, I will say, I don't think there's a wrong way to handle it. I don't know if you listen to. But I listened to the Dunktown podcast, and the host there they have just collectively decided that they're not going to cover the league anymore until they do something about what's going on. And I totally respect that. If my livelihood wasn't so tightly tethered to covering the NBA might feel the same. And I just don't know that. I don't know that there's a wrong way to go about it. At this point. I get that sports is an escape for people. I get that this situation was collectively bargained. So I don't fault anybody who just wants to talk hoops. I don't fault anybody who wants to talk both. I don't fault anyone who's just going to, you know, remove themselves or disten themselves from the league. I understand every single side, And there's definitely the NBA is definitely like there's an element they've they've fucked up here, Like it's that's that just goes without saying, but that's, you know, we're not you know, health experts, and so that's not going to be the focus. It's definitely at the four of our minds. And I don't fault any approach to how this is going on aside from you know, we're at least acknowledged that it's happening. I don't know it entirely, but I don't know that there's a right answer from our side for a way to cover this, because like we're still going to watch the product even if we're critical of how they're handling the situation. And that's just that makes us hypocrites. I'll say for myself anyway, it makes me a hypocrite. There's an element of, yeah, my job depends on it too. I don't know how to handle it beyond this just rambling right here though, And that's just where I'm at. No, I'm with you, and I do think it's it's been frustrating and difficult to fully understand, like what exactly goes in to these health and safety protocols, Like after Jason Tatum has a postgame hug with Bradley Beale, Like why is he the only one that is put into the health and safety protocols when everyone on the court was spending time with him and guarding him closely, and like none of this like makes full sense, and it it feels like the NBA is kind of figuring out as it goes, which is not the ideal way to handle a pandemic, especially coming off a bubble experience that was an unqualified positive. And you know, we get that it's impossible to ask all the players to go into a bubble for a full regular season, and that, as Dan said, this was collectively bargained. But it just it all feels weird and strange. And all of that is to say that this podcast is fully meant to be an escape for those who want it to be an escape. And if you don't, then turn it off and do what you need to do to escape. There's great self promotion right there. Just turn off this podcast. Yeah, I mean, let's be honest, right, Like, if you don't want to if you don't want to talk about basketball, like that is your right. We are not faulting. I fully your prerogative. Yeah, just hit unsubscribe right now. Let's keep your promotion going. Don't subscribe to this podcast. To unsubscribe to this podcast, I'm gonna get some interesting feedback on that, aren't type. Yeah, I am ready to talk about rookies instead of the NBA's inconsistent policing of the pandemic procedures. I will still say I am confused. You brought up the good point about Tatum and Bradley Beal, and I've tried to find things on the like the science of the NBA saying like they don't consider in gameplay high risk of transmission because it takes being in close proximity for fifteen minutes or something like that. But a hug between Bradley Beal and Jayson Tatum that didn't last fifteen minutes and didn't include any like you know, I don't. I've just that's the inconsistency there. Maybe there's they have access to better science than I can, but there's you hinted on at. The thing I'm struggling most with is just it feels like the policy itself is inconsistent. I do have no doubt though that it's at least rooted in some form of reason other than haphazard thinking, but it's it is also strange because like so in Colorado where I live, you can download an app and I'm not sure how true this is for other states, but you can download an app and if you test positive, then you can put into the app that you have tested positive and it will alert the phones of anyone who also has the app and their phone came in close proximity to your phone. There's no like fifteen minute rule, so like that, that's the first I've heard of that being required for transmission, which almost feels like a post talk justification for the decisions the league is making. Maybe that's too cynical, but it's as Dan has said, like I don't know about this either, so learning on the fly as well. It's just if they say places like gyms are supposed to be the worst of all, then theoretically a basketball game that like simulates at least like the physical exertion of what would be happening at a gym where you're in closer. Yeah, so good shape. But again it's the this is still so new and we're not experts on it's That's just what I'm struggling to wrap my head around. Is. Look, I'm still watching the games, and so I understand there's hypocrisy here and the NBA stopping is not good for either of our jobs. Like let's just flat out, I still just don't understand the way that things are being enforced here right now, or monitored whatever word you want to use. With that said, though, can you please take us through our impressions so rookies rookie time. Yeah. Yeah, So we're going to be running through the twenty twenty NBA Draft, going through the lottery picks and just how our impressions have changed, and then kind of the roles or levels that we're buying these players are going to hit based on these early, small sample impressions. And then after we get through those top fourteen picks, will also mention a couple of names from outside the lottery that have impressed us, or I guess if you have any that have really unimpressed you from outside the lottery, though I think that's a little harder since those players tend to enter with more diminished expectations. So we'll start at the top with the first overall pick, Anthony Edwards of the Minnesota Timberwolves. I will say that, you know, as I would imagine most listeners of the podcast, no like, I was very critical of him, didn't think he should be the number one pick, And I don't know how my feelings have changed because it's been such a mixed bag, Like his fuel for offensive spacing I think has been a little bit better than I expected, but his skills and defensive awareness have also been worse than I expected. He's clearly a great athlete, but like, there are some serious flaws, and I'm curious, like, have you seen anything that has led you to change your opinion and come more towards me if you're further away from me or whatever it may be. I don't know that it's actually changed my opinion. I might be a little bit higher on him than I was before. Watching how strong he's able to go to the rim and actually get what looked like high quality looks is tantalizing to me. And he's shooting fifty four point five percent inside five feet, which is not good. But just the fact that he's getting there and making these strong pushes, it gives me hope that touch around the rim is something he can solve. I think what was already going to be the big thing. Can he improve his jumper? And like he looks kind of comfortable taking shots off the dribble right now, but like the efficiency, the efficiency just isn't there. He is an effective field goal rate on pull ups with twenty three point three, which is again not great. I think that's bad. Yeah, and the defensive stuff. Not that I throw it out the window for rookies, but I tend to try and focus on the positives of which I feel like there have been very few for him, except for the fact that he's clearly strong on that end, and they can give you a lot of positional flexibility if he gets to the point where he's going to be more aware the offense, though, I think there's going to be a fair a fairly efficient, high volume score in there, and that this is someone who's going to have, I think when we look back, an appreciably better career than essentially his predecessor, who is Andrew Wiggins. It could be for sure. I do think that it's important to note that his personality has been outstanding and areas of a breath of fresh air, Like it's been really fun to listen to him in postgame pressers and pregame interviews and the one off interviews, Like he's just got a great sense of humor and a great personality, and that makes me want to root for him even more than I already did as a fellow ug alum. But yeah, I just I don't know that my opinion has changed that much where I think that he's going to be a valuable scoring role player, but I don't know that he's going to be that much more than that. His personality has been a one from day one that would say do you want to move on to number two or do you have more to say on Edwards? I'm ready all right. Second pick James Weissman of the Golden State Warriors. I will say that I was high on him going in, and I'm even higher now. That's just how I'll lead this one off. I was medium on him going in, if not low, and I'm definitely higher on him now. There's looking at what he's done early on a Golden State, there's I feel like more defensive optionality to him there. He's done really well out of the paint. When he's in his defensive stances, sometimes he's just he seemed a little stiff and like he's definitely getting exploited in those situations, and it feels like he's making at points like good decisions around the rim where he can be a viable backline protector Offensively. I'd be curious to see, like what he's gonna look like if they do ever put the ball in his hands A lot, but already being able to slice through the defenses when they do run pick and rolls for him, and he's shown that he can hit the wide open jumpers from everywhere. He'd probably like to see the release quicken a little bit at this point, but if he's going to be able to he's shooting a good percentage on his wide open threes. He's not taking a ton of them, but to hit those shots like at the five spot, and as a rookie, like, that's really all I think you could ask for, and I'll be interested to see. I don't know if you have any impressions though, if they ever get to a point or if he's with another team in his career where they try and develop his ball skills more what you think he can offer in that regard, because I don't have the greatest grasp of what he looks like in that context. I don't think we can at this point. But ultimately, like, this is a guy who isn't going to turn twenty until the final day of March. Has played prior to this season three games above the high school level, had an extended hiatus before he was able to get back on the court again, and he looks like a switchable defensive big who can protect the rim and multiple situations and play a convincing two a game with Steph Curry. Granted, makes it easier for everyone to play a two game, a two player game with Steph Curry. But like he as you mentioned, has looked great slicing through the defense. He seems to have a good understanding of where to be and where to go, And I'm just ultimately like, I'm very impressed with what I've seen from him mentally at this stage of his career. Entering like a fairly tough situation with a team that is expected to be competitive right from the get go but doesn't necessarily have the personnel in place to do that. So I love everything I've seen here. I would argue, I don't know what's going to happen with his timing Golden State, but if assuming they keep him, like probably learning defense under Draymond Green's tutelage has to be like one of the very best things possible for the beginning of him. It seems like Green has really taken him under his wing too, as as much as we can tell from the outside perspective, Like it feels like that mentorship is fully happening with you, and maybe one day Weisman will understand basketball how Draymond Green wants it to be understood. Maybe we should be framing this this way though, two to make it clear. So on Anthony Edwards, are you stock up or stock down? That's probably a good way to put I'm stock neutral on him, but granted I was very low coming in I'm stock. I'm probably stock slightly up to neutral. I'll lead towards slightly up and for Wiseman, we're both stock up. Yes. Hey everyone, Before we get into today's pod, I want to tell you about Blue Wire Hustle, a brand new program where you can host your very own podcast here at blue Wire Hustle. It was created to give everyone the opportunity to take your podcast to the next level. Or if you want to host a podcast and just don't know where to start, Hustle is the perfect place for you. As part of the program, you'll receive personal cover art q and a's with Blue Wire's top podcasters, access to our community discord, and an e learning course full of tips and tricks. On top of that will help you get your show pushed out to Apple, Spotify, Google, Stitcher and all the other listening platforms. And the best part is you get all of this for only fifteen dollars a month, the same rate as any other hosting site would charge you just for the initial setup. So whether you're starting from scratch or have an existing show that you want to grow, Hustle is an open door to leveling up your sports experience. Acceptance into the program is limited, so get your application in today. To apply, go to BW hustle dot com slash joint. That's BW hustle dot com slash joint. Check out our description box for this episode to find out more. But that's BW hustle dot com slash Sugar, Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran, Marvelous, Marvin Hagler, and Thomas Hearns legends whose four way rivalry define one of the greatest errors in boxing history. Relive their decade of dominance in the new Showtime Sports documentary The Kings, a four parts series premiering Sunday, June sixth only on Showtime. Join. The next one is who I was so high on LaMelo Ball coming into this draft. I thought that he should have been the number one pick for the not for the Charlotte Hornets, obviously, because that's where he ended up at number three. And I'm still stock up like this this dude, just he seems like he's going to be a superstar. The magnetic personality, the shot coming around quicker than expected, albeit with some of these random leg kicks on the jumper. That makes me question how sustainable and consistent that shooting form is going to be. But when you pair all that with just the absolutely immaculate and creative passing that he's displaying as a rookie without having his turnovers climb up too high, He's he is an unbelievably impressive offensive player and I have no reason to think anything other than superstardom in his future. Oh, superstart him. That's interesting. I'll include the super not the super duper stardom yet, who like the superstardom? So he's not like on Frank Nilikino's trajectory, is what you're saying, correct? All right? I'm glad we're on the same page there. I'm stock way up for him too, and I was probably lower on him coming in. I just the shot selection worried me, and what was the efficiency going to be? Like the sample size again is incredibly small, but he is shooting fifty seven point one percent on pull up twos and forty percent on pull up threes, and he's shown that he can work off the ball, and you just couple that with his passing and it's like this guy probably is going to play he has I would say all I would go as far as this looks like someone who could be one of the twenty five best players in the league, but at some point all right now, obviously, and that's especially from this pass draft, where it felt like there was so much uncertainty near the top. That's a hell of a player to wind up with. I would argue that Charlotte might even need to unleash him a little bit more, and maybe also as well, their decision to have Gordon Hayward is probably being validated to some extent where it is taking some of the pressure off of him. The way they got to Gordon Hayward is what we've always questioned, but that is fair to note that it does feel like he's in probably a more favorable situation for his numbers and just overall perform than he would have been had Charlotte decided to steer fully into the bottom. I think Lamello has made Terry Rosier look better as well, just because he has less defensive attention focused on him and doesn't need to be in the spotlight. As we're analyzing whether that contract was a bad decision, it has not been good for DeVante Graham, who's shooting slump I think is going to push him into a far smaller role in the rotation in the imminent future unless he just has like one of those ten of ten games. Yeah, he's I thought they couldn't trade him going into free agency next summer, but that might just be a name like another team should maybe take a flyer on him because he was a really good shot creator last year, even when his efficiency he was coming down, and everything is just just offer him. I think this year he is shooting just stuff on fact twenty six percent at the rim, which is, you know, actually lower than he's shooting on above the breake threes right now, which is twenty seven percent. I'm surprised the numbers are that high. Honestly, you can't throw a beach well on the ocean right now. He's never been a good finisher at the rim. He's small, but twenty six percent even through ten games is surprising. Surprisingly, I was excited about three guard lineups with Rosier, DeVante Graham, and LaMelo. I'm not excited about those anymore. Terror Is here though, has quietly been really good now in the past two seasons. He might like generate some All Star conversation if he keeps this up. WHOA, I'm not This feels like when we crown DeVante Graham himself an All Star last year. Let's maybe not go that far, but I think that there are there even All Stars this year. There's no All Star game. The teams will still the teams are still going to be named, They're just not going to play a game, so they will still get credit for being an All Star, just to be I hope voting goes off the rails because there's not going to be a game. Like let's get I mean, Mitchell Trubisky was just named the Nickelodeon MVP of a playoff game, so like anything can happen. Apparently. Man, poor the poor kids who their first exposure to football was having to watch the Bears on nick Just imagine those youths. I feel bad for them. I'm not a big football guy, so maybe maybe the pivot to the NBA. And you've seen Mitchell Rubisky. Now come watch Laanello ball. I think that's a great idea new marketing campaign. We are moving to Chicago though with this next player. Yeah, see that was a good segue unintentionally, but yeah, next player is number four pick Patrick Williams. And I'm going to be very curious for your take here because I don't really know where my stock has gone here because this was such a unique set of circumstances where Patrick Williams was overdrafted because of the ridiculously high perceived ceiling, but he was also the youngest nca prospect going into the draft. He was supposed to be really raw, and yet the Bulls are playing him and he's been impressive, but also now seems like maybe a little bit overhyped, where like he's hitting his shots. I like the switchability I'm seeing on defense. I like the awareness I'm seeing on defense. He seemed to genuinely learn from the tough matchups that he's playing against. He's already faced off against Janisana Dacumpo and Kawhi Leonard and Lebron James. His postgame quote are really indicative of a player who gets it and wants to get better, but like he's getting compared to Kahi Leonard already and I feel like that's just setting the bar unsustainably high and setting him up for failure. Yeah there's I don't see that on offense, like I don't see even when he was with the Spurs, And I don't see it on defense. No, he's not right. And it's if he eventually gets there, like okay, maybe, but I don't see like the same level of quickness, Like there's not that ubiquity on the defensive end. I will say I'm still stock up. And you know I was high on him to begin with. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and I think that's totally valid. But I think the two things I've been impressed most with is like there's actual shot making there on the offensive ends. Some of it's when it's you know, him hitting these pull up jumpers. Yeah, that's encouraging, but there's still like this graduality to it where it feels predictable or he's not moving quick enough, but like maybe that extra speed or that extra gear comes in time, but he's hitting his shots. And then on defense, the biggest concern I think among the concept was could he hold up outside of the four because it looked like the Bulls were going to put him on these sort of you know, twitchy wings or explosive wings, and he's handled that not only better than you could have expected by those standards, but I think in general, just compared to rookie's you already mentioned some of the matchups, and you know, he was all over the place when the Bulls were, you know, playing the Lakers, made some really nice plays on and off the ball, same thing with the Clippers. And that's I think what makes me highest on him is that because he's already able to do that as a rookie. No, I don't look at him and see the next Kauai. But I don't know that we looked at Kauai in the first two to three years of Kauai and saw Kauai, which is but I don't think in terms of like pure archetypes, like I think, if I can throw at a different ridiculously lofty, overly optimis, I'm going to see if you're throwing out the same name I'm thinking of. He plays more on defense like Janis than Kawai. To me, okay, where you still have the positional flexibility. But I view Kauai as more of a dominant wing defender who can do everything else, and I view Kauai as more of the dominant forward under who can do everything else and kind of thrives more off the ball than on it. And that's how I see Patrick Williams's career going, where if like he can be a poor man's Kawhi or a poor man's Yannis on defense, then that's his success. I was going to throw out and you might be able to tell me how off base this would be, since I know you love him. Was a Shawn Marion type on defense. Yeah, I think that's totally valid as well, and I would view Shawn Marion more in that Yannis pool than the Kawhi pool. Anyway, It's not an insult if I feel like all of these comparisons are way too lofty at the moment, right, And the fact that we're even willing to mention the names, albeit saying that they're optimistic projections, is encouraging for a guy who I think he turns like sixteen tomorrow. Wow, he's younger than Jayson Tatum, who just celebrate his nineteenth birthday for like the twelfth time, right, Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, but yeah, I think Look, I've not enjoyed watching the Bulls. I've seen that some people are like kind of getting higher on them over the past couple of games. Patrick Williams is, Patrick Williams has easily been my favorite thing about Chicago this year, and it's not even really close. I've enjoyed some moments from Kobe White, but Patrick Williams is you know, even I who was super high on him and was kind of hoping that he'd be around there for the Knicks, Like when they were drafting, I thought four was too high. I thought that was just like I thought that was just too high. And so that's why I also why I'm stock up is that I thought the Bulls were even reaching there. But it feels like they might have made a really good decision. And I'll be interested to see just how he comes along on defense, like is there that dominant element to him? And then also I want to see his offensive ceiling. I just don't have a great feel for it where I feel like he's doing a bunch of things, but like what is he going to be? It doesn't have to be dominant, but like specialize in what is going to be as offensive specialty, and I don't have maybe if listeners do throw it out to us, but I have zero feel for what that's going to be. Yeah, I think I'll go stock up as well, just because I did think it was a little too much of a reach for Chicago, and he has justified it to some extent. But I think I'm just more excited about what I'm hearing games and what I'm seeing during it still, And that's not even an insult to what he's doing during games. It's just like, I don't think you often have young rookies especially who have the presence of mind to talk about specifics in their matchups and how much they're learning from them and how much they're struggling in them as well. So just you know, when he plays and pass to guard Janis and talks about how sore his chest is because he's bodying up too closely and he's learning from that kind of stuff like those are the kinds of awareness indicators that get me excited about these players. I'm with you number five, Isaaca Coro for the Cleveland Cavaliers, and I will be the first to admit here that I have not really seen him enough to have a firm indication of how I feel here. From what I have watched, I'm impressed by the hustle and the instincts that he has, but I wanted him to be more than just this like gritty three and D role player, and I haven't seen enough both in terms of volume of watching him and what he's done on the court, when I have to think he's going to be much more than that right now. Yeah, he missed I think it was five games with an ankle sprain, and he was also on the COVID nineteen. He was the protocol yet, so you just haven't been able to see too much of him. The defensive hustle is clearly there. I like that his shot profile is kind of simplified, where it's like, hey, he's not going to take mid rangers. It's just shots on the inside and shots from beyond the arc. And they have so many just other creators and better players that it doesn't surprise me that he really hasn't had this opportunity to branch out on the offensive end. That being said, based on what we kind of saw from him at the preseason it does feel like there's another element there to his offense that they could probably put the ball in his hands more if they wanted to. I don't know how realistic that is to expect when they have Garland and Colin Sexton. Kevin Love will eventually be healthy and then whatever is going to wind up happening with the Kevin Porter junior stuff, It'll be interesting to see what his role becomes. But I would say I'm stock neutral on him. I wouldn't say I'm in the same boat. I just there hasn't been a which I would say. It's a good thing because I was probably stock higher on him going into the preseason, like get like, after the preseason was done, I would have been higher than I initially was, and I'm stock neutral from there. And for someone who doesn't have the largest sample size, even in what is already small sample size theater, I would think that that's pretty encouraging. Yeah, I agree with you, but let's just move on, just because I don't think we need to spend any more time there unless you have anything more to add. No, So we're gonna skip straight past the sixth pick of the draft because Anyuka Kongu is still recovering from his foot injury and has yet to debut for the Atlanta Hawks. And we're gonna move on to number seven, Killion Hayes for the Detroit Pistons, who is now out for the rest of the season after only playing one hundred forty eight minutes. And if you are anything but stock down on him, then I don't know what you were watching. Because he shot twenty seven point seven percent from the field, in twenty five percent on threes, and looked entirely overmatched on both ends of the floor no matter what he was doing. So I'm going to provide some pushback there. I'm probably more stock neutral on him. There's the efficiency was not great, but when you look at just the parameters under which he had to work, they were an ideal either just looking at Detroit's offense, and I feel he was massively over extended. Yes, And so there's he has just coming around screens. It feels like there's a feel there from him. He's also I think the floater game is eventually going to be fine, And I think his outside shooting, you know, as a spot up shooter, I don't think he's gonna or I don't see a guy who's gonna hit all these off the dribble looks. I think he's going to be fine there too, And so I see what's going to be probably a pretty good offensive player, and the efficiency just hasn't indicated the same. I'm still stocked neutral on him. The injury sucks, so now you're losing a season. I think you have to be stocked down in that regard. But I wouldn't lower his ceiling based on or even my expectations for his career or what's going to happen next year based on what I saw. And again, the efficiency is bad, and I mean we can go through those numbers. If more than the efficiency, it's just like how overly reliant he is on his left hand and how little confidence he has on the defensive end, and he just so he did not look like he belonged on an NBA court at any point. He's nineteen years old, and right, the ceiling could still the ceiling could still be there. But when you draft somebody at number seven, even in a week draft class, you're expecting them to at least look like they belong in the NBA and don't need multiple years of seasoning overseaser in the G League. I think that's where we fundamentally disagree is I don't know that I don't view him as an NBA player based off what we seem like. I didn't think he was that overmatched. I'm not. I'm in no way saying he can't get there. You just said he's the worst basketball player you've ever seen, Sace Anthony Edwards. That's absolutely yeah. I'm a Frank Nikola. Yeah wow. All right? Moving on to a thirty second mentioned on Obi Toppin, who has played one game. Can you take us through I don't really know what there is to say about Obie Toppan, who was the eighth pick in the New York Knicks. He's played twenty four minutes before he got hurt and has yet to come back. And what can you take away from that one? I still wish the Knicks would have taken Devin Vassell or more preferably Tyres Haliburton. But that's my one strong take two. I think he's gonna end up like I think the offensive bag is going to end up being as advertised, if not deeper. The you know, he's only played one game, so he's shooting twenty five percent or No, he's shooting well from three still, but it's been one game. I think he's gonna be a fine shooter. He's a better passer than I realized, and like he might be able to make some more complicate and that's this is stuff coming from the preseason two. I ultimately do not think that he was the right pick for the Knicks, but it's just been I still have an open mind with him, I will say again, though, I was impressed with his awareness during the preseason, Like he seemed to know when to get to the dunker's spot and how to fill lanes. Like all that was good and what you would expect from a guy who was so dominant at exactly that kind of stuff in college. It would be still pretty high on him. Yeah, I think I was always higher than you. You definitely were. I want he needs to be back on the court, though he's dealing with the right cash strain which has caused him to miss all this time. And you know, Tibbs the thing. First of all, I don't think the Knicks are gonna They're already starting to come down to earth, and Tibbs is getting a little too veteran happy already at the moment, and I no way. Well, look, his options are limited because Toppin's injured, Frankie Lakina is injured. I understand that Dennis Smith Junior at this point probably just isn't fliable, so like, I get that, but Alec Burks has also been injured, so it's like that's one veteran who hasn't been getting minutes. I want to see Toppin on the floor. I want to see Neil Keen. I want to see the Knicks just lean into lineups that have more than just RJ. Barrett and Mitchell Robinson as their trademark youngsters. That's my big, long, thirty second section on Obi Toppin. That's my big tapaway takeaway from Obi Toppins. He needs to get healthy to save Tibbs from himself. I'm with you. Moving on to number nine, Denny Ada for the Washington Wizards. I'm gonna go stock neutral here, and I mean that as a compliment because he was billed as that super NBA ready guy who could immediately contribute in a number of areas. Might not have had that star level ceiling, and that's exactly what we've seen so far. Like he just he gets how to play. He's a smart defender. He's a smart offensive player who's willing to make the extra pass. Instead of taking even a good shot, he'll turn it down for a great one. He's impressed me on defense. He pushes the pace when necessary. He's been able to fill every role that has been asked of him, but he hasn't had any of those explosive performances that we never really expected. So it feels like he's the guy where the pre draft scouting reports just absolutely nailed what he's going to be. I'm stuck up on him only because I was lower than you just coming into the season, and so him being as ready has sort of blown my mind. And with the exception of him just detonating for twenty points and a loss to Miami, he's just been like this a studying force. And the defense is the thing that's just shocked me most is he's holding up positionally. It always feels like he's getting these deflections or steals off the ball, and then there's there's more to his He's a ball moverse and he can hit a lot of these catch and shoot looks, but there might be more for them to plumb there where. I don't know if you ever want him being like a full fledged secondary creator, but he does, like the handle feels a little loosey goosey and high right now. But I can't remember who he was playing at the time, but he hit this one step back above the break three and I was just like, whoa. And so that's not something I was expecting from him immediately, and to have that element is huge. And then if you do have that element, I do think he's a smart enough passer already where he's making just quick, you know, second decisions that maybe you can put the ball in his hands. Is just the anchor of these lineups. And so I'm probably stock way up on him, which might just be more of an indication of how little I one liked him Slash really knew about him coming into the league. Okay, so what do you think about this comparison, because I'm starting to view his ceiling as like vintage Portland Trailblazer's era Nicholas Patum, but in the modern NBA that's interesting. I could kind of see that he feels a little bit more of some one who's like, you're going to feel him more the Nicholas Patuma. I just think they're going to be more He's willing to take more higher profile offensive looks or gambles in that regard, where I feel like Nick Patuma is like this very safe well for a while, and that's contract Nick Batum was a completely different experience. I made sure to specify that I'm talking vintage Trailblazers era. Yeah, I think I think that's an apt comparison, maybe a flashier version of that player. I don't know if that the modern lack of constraints on positions see j R. Smith of prime Nicholas Patums. So basically we've like put JR. Smith's brain in Nicholas Patum's body, and that's Denny adiah Abi already feels like he's a better, smarter passer and defender than that. So it's just just who's like, who's maybe the Lou Williams of Nicholas Patums, But then that just really torpedoes the defensive And I'll work on this. It's got to be like a player who's really good but takes just like a bunch of chances maybe that he shouldn't at some point, So maybe like Lance Stevenson's brain. No, that's I just don't really like Lance Stevenson as a person, so I'm trying to find someone else there. But we'll work on it. Lance Stevenson's on court brain maybe the Jared Jack of Nicholas Batoum's. Okay, I feel like we're veering off the rails here. We apologize Wizards fans, but I'm stock up for him and he's going to be what looks like a really good NBA player, and you know they this has been a really weird way to compliment him. Basically, I'm not even trying to insult him. I just think that he's, like Nickolas Patum is very good at playing within himself, where prime Nicholas Batum was. I feel like Abvia is going to try and push his boundaries and he might be able to. But that's just something I feel like Nick Batoum never did or had to do, is my overarching point. That's probably kind of very putting, very curious to see how you're going to sell this section. In the timestamps, I'm just putting Denny Avia's name with a timestamp. That's it fair enough. So moving on to the tenth pick of the draft Jalen Smith for the Phoenix Suns. I was not excited about this pick when it was made. I have also watched exactly zero of the twenty minutes that he spent on the court in his two appearances to this point, and I am handing the talking stick fully to you. I was incredibly low on him. I thought that was I still think it was a bad pick. Imagine Devin Vassel on the Suns right now, or even Tyree's Halliburton learning under Chris Paul and even Devin Booker there. There's definitely just the element of someone who can put more pressure on the rim and put the ball on the floor more than I thought on offense in the I've actually watched all twenty minutes of his play this year, so I promise, I promise you that I did. That's more than me. There you go, h and he's he's out because he's in the health and safety protocols. At the moment, I believe, Yeah, that's what he's that's what he's at with I don't I just don't know. He has to probably show more on defense, and I was, you know, he seems more physical on that, and then I thought maybe you can get away with playing him at the five and the four. I honestly don't know. I think maybe I'm getting caught up too much and how I think there are better fits for them, but i'd be stock neutral. I don't know that I expect a ton from him long term. If if he's going to outperform my expectations, he's going to need the opportunity. I don't know if it'll be there in Phoenix, as long as you have both or all three of Sarich, Cam Johnson, who's going to spend time at the four, and then DeAndre eight as well. Yeah, which is why it was always a weird pick from the start. Should have been Devin Vassel I think would have been the optimal pick for them there, which incidentally, speaking of which, yeah, he's the number eleven pick for the San Antonio Spurs, and it's always hard to criticize any Spurs pick because you know that Greg Popovich is going to coach him up and make sure they're filling the right kind of role. And it seems like that's exactly what's happened. He is just like already this three and D stalwart. He said, trouble finishing on his midrange jumpers. What few he's taken, he said, trouble finishing around the basket, But he's shooting forty seven point one percent on threes, and he's played pretty impressive defense in a wide variety of wing rolls. So the stock is up for me, and it was already high. I'm saying stock neutral just because I was so high on him. I still think there's an element of and you're gonna need to see him improve is finishing in between, like you already mentioned, particularly at the basket. If you want to explore more of his on ball work, I think there's more that he has to offer there though, and he doesn't. I'm not saying this first need to put the ball in his hands and say go. I want to see him get even I mean, maybe it's not as big of a problem now because of the Derek White injury toe injury, but let's see him get even more of more minutes, some of Rudy Gay's minutes too. There's he's a really good player already, and I don't know that I expected anything less. Watching him cut is just super fun. And that's on the basketball court. I'm not trying to be like gruesome there. The other thing, too, is you mentioned his defense. I don't know that you can say any rookies a net positive on defense, but it already feels like he knows what's going on off the ball, and I'm like, he's been a net positive on defense already. That's like, that's basically where it is, and so maybe smarter minds can pushed back a little bit there. And I'm sure there have been some mistakes, but when I watch him, it just always feels like he's in the right spot of where the action is happened, like even just his rotations around the basket when he's playing a position and spot at times where he doesn't really even need to be there, but he's not selling out. He's just always in the right spot to make these plays. So I want more Devin Vassel minutes. But I was so high on him to begin with. I think he was my second favorite player in this class overall. I don't know that I had him number two on my very unscientific big board, but I thought that his ceiling was just sky high and that hasn't changed for me. I will be interested moving forward this year and into the future. If the Spurs don't make any moves this season. If he does get the chance to have just a slightly bigger offensive role, yeah, I just I don't know that that's really going to happen with this current roster construction, with john Ty Murray and Lonnie Walkers starting to get more opportunities and they like to put the ball in Keldon Johnson's hands, and LaMarcus al Rosen is still there. Yeah, it just doesn't feel like he's going to get an optunity to be anything more than this three and D standout. And that might be fine, which is fine, just they totally maximize him in that role which he seems capable of filling to a team. But even look, you're looking at Mills, Gay, Aldrigen, de Rosen or all free agency after this year, there's no way all of them are coming back. And I would I would say that probably two of them need to go for the line this season anyway they would need to go because Derek wh whites out. Let's say if that's you know, actually indefinitely, if they end up moving two of those guys, maybe it opens the door long term though, like you probably need because you have White and Murray and even Walker and John. I want to include Kelton Johnson and that I'm so high on him. He is. Has he been like their second best player soever? Dvart Rosen's been really good this year. I think he's been their second best players. He's up there. So but this isn't a Kelton Johnson podcast. He can be if you'd like it should be that. It should be another player who we we just both hated going into the draft is the number twelve pick, Tyrese Haliber of the Sacramento Kings. And by I hated, I mean he was both of our Rookie of the Year picks. We both shed tears when our favorite teams did not draft him because he would have fit in both spots. We shed tears again when the Phoenix Suns didn't take him because he would have been a perfect fit there, And then we came to realize that he just would have been a perfect fit anywhere, even in Sacramento. That's why intro I practice that one. He is okay. He has an effective field goal percentage on pull up jumpers of eighty three point three. Now I know the sample size is incredibly small. It's eleven of eighteen on pull ups that's still ridiculous. And he's eight of twelve on pull up three's so far. He can work off the ball so well. He's smart on defense already, but he's just pesky. Everything he does is so scalable, and I think once the Kings start to commit to playing even faster, he might become more of a weapon for them, just because he's willing to get back on defense and so like, there could be some opportunities for to make big plays there and I want to I just want to see more of Tyrese Haliburt like kind of piloting the offense. And danon Fox is there, so that obviously matters, and danon Fox is really good. But as we sort of move forward, like even just some of these line ups that don't have darreon Fox ready, he just feels like such a good anchor for Sacramento at both ends of the floor. And he has been easily, to me, the most well rounded rookie, and I would say the best rookie until this point. Is any of the first year player has been better than him, may be a LaMelo ball, he might be that good still, but yeah, I mean, like what Haliburton has done already it's just absolutely incredible, Like all the things you mentioned, plus serving as a steadying force and crunch time situations as a rookie, plus proving that his shooting can translate, which was in question going into the draft, plus making his opinions heard loud and clear on social media about political topics, which I respect the hell out of. Just like he's checked all the boxes. Yeah, he's just he's been so good. And there he hit I can't even remember the team that they were playing, but he hit on Friday? Was that? That wasn't the Warriors game? Was it? I can't even remember what team, but he hit like this just absurd step back three. They were playing the Raptors, and he hit a step back three with a ball fake thrown in there from the left corner. Right. Yeah, he's like it was I think it was more closes above the break. But he's just so he's just so good. I really wish that the next way. Do you know which one because he it was it was a couple of possessions before he hit that fall away three from the left corner. Yeah, and he I think on the very next possession of the three that I'm talking about, he like picked up a steal on the day. He's just everywhere, and he would be my Rookie of the Year pick still right now. I totally understand people who think it might be LaMelo ball in it book. If they commit to starting him and just giving him even more minutes, there's a chance that he ends up being the clear pick there. I mean, those are the two obvious front runners. Like, I don't think there's anyone else who is even in the discussion at this point for to actually win Rookie of the Year. I can't even name anybody. Yeah, is there anyone to break team? I was gonna say, is there anyone that you've even see a good question? Maybe past? I think I don't. I don't think Patrick Williams has the ceiling this year to get there. I could see Obi Toppin getting healthy and making enough noise for a NIXT team that somehow commits to young players. I could see Anthony Edwards like having something click and scoring enough points to curry favor and an award that typically goes to the guy who scores the most points. But beyond that probably not. Yeah, I don't. I don't actually know that I've even put anybody in there. I'm struggling to think of who can catch them. Maybe I think that's those were stretches. Yeah, yeah, Patrick Williams would probably be the most likely one for me. And just maybe if the Warriors said, hey, we're gonna play now that Draymond Green is back, we're gonna mirror their minutes identically identically or something, or just play him a bunch more than they have. But even that then rests on just him not even just doing what he's done, but actually improving in more minutes. Yeah, it seems unlikely. I know that number thirteen is not going to work his way into the Rookie of the Year conversation this season because it is Kyra Lewis junior for the New Orleans Pelicans, and he has played only thirteen minutes, And it definitely seems like it's because he just isn't ready to fill a larger role, even for a team that isn't quite sure whether it's fully rebuilding or just partially rebuilding. Yeah. I will say though, for what they need when looking at their half court offense, like there's a chance that he could be it, It's just not going to be this season, and they might just give him the Nikkil Alexander Walker treatment this year like they did to him last year, and so I wouldn't expect him to work his way in there. I do think that he's going to end up being the type of guard though, that can really orchestrate things in the half court, who you can also play alongside another ball ball dominant guy, which works out because you have Brandon Ingram there already, and there's a chance that you'll also have Lonzo Ball there too. I think I'm stocked down on him in the short term, just because I did think that he was ready to fill a bigger role than this, just because of his quickness, his speed in the open court, and his overall ball handling acumen. But I am not stocked down. I'm definitely just stock neutral overall, because I think that New Orleans has demonstrated that it is willing to commit more to a long term plan than giving in to those immediate that need for immediate contribution. We saw it was Zion Williamson when they handled him so carefully with the injuries. We saw it with Mikail Alexander Walker, as you mentioned, and I think we're seeing it now here too. Yeah, there's and look, if it wasn't clear before we were both stock up on Tyrese Haliburton. I don't know if we noticed that. Yeah, I don't think we really needed to say that. Yeah, I don't know that you can be if you're talking about specifically to this season. Yeah, it has to be stocked down because it doesn't feel like there's going to be opportunity for him there unless New Orleans does make a trade, which is possible because Blazo is not a part of the future low the balls entering restricted free agency. Maybe something happens long term, though I haven't. We haven't been able to see anything that would make me lean one way or the other. Agree as opposed to Number fourteen, aaron Nie Smith of the Boston Celtics, where you know, he was billed as a shooting specialist coming in, except he hasn't been making his shots. In the admittedly small sample so far, he's played thirty nine minutes over three games, He's shooting twenty five percent from the field, twenty two point two percent from three point range, has yet to attempt a free throw. I'm just I'm worried that he's not capable enough in the other areas. To allow Boston to get the most of his shooting specialty because he's just he's looked so overmatched to me and just about every facet of the game, and that that brief time, Yeah, I feel like everything he does happens in slow motion a little bit. But he's also played like, you know, the minutes that he's gotten have not even been like real NBA minutes, and so it's tough to gauge that. I do think his shooting is eventually going to normalize and he'll just be He'll be fine. Does he do enough other things though to justify staying on the court, especially when they have, you know, Peyton Pritchard in front of him, in addition to healthy eventually Kemba Walker, and yet the guard rotations like all over the place right now, there's Romeo Lankford's eventually going to be healthy too. There are just so many names that you could throw in this boat. Carson Edwards still exists, by the way, in case anyone was wondering, So it doesn't seem like the Celtics won't want him to or know that anyway. So yeah, I don't know. I'd probably be stocked down on him though to be honest with you, I think so too, And that's just the fairest assessment is I don't know what else he's going to end up bringing. Even if there's more ball skills on offense than we've seen. I'm just not unbelievably high. And part of that just might be. And I'm sure we'll get to him as we to talk about these more noteworthy rookies outside of a lottery. Payton Richard has just played so well where it's like, well, it's the opportunity in Boston ever going to be there for Nie Smith. That's where I'm at with new Smith, where it's like, I don't know if it was just a bad landing spot for him, but I just again, based on thirty nine minutes of play, like this could not be indicative of his future. It might be. We just don't know because the sample is so small. But I don't know that he's ever going to get a chance to show off those shooting skills. He's just don't I don't know that he is good enough in other areas to ever get that chance in Boston. And it's hard to believe that you know a guy who's going to go down as a number fourteen pick who doesn't play much is going to get that chance elsewhere? Yeah, I'm with you. Who else is who's standing out for you? Stock up or stock down from this draft class? And the one thing I'll say going through this, I don't think we had many, if any stock downs. This draft class has been once you step outside the traditional context of oh, there wasn't enough superstar power at the top, and I'm an agreement there wasn't. It looks like this draft class, though, is still deep in the lens of having actual NBA talent of guys who can't continue. We set that from the start too, where it's like, look like, if you look past the lack of power at the top, there are a lot of guys who are going to contribute to rotations for a long time. Yeah. I do feel like that's what we've seen. So I wrote down a couple of non lottery picks who have impressed me to this point. I don't really have any stock downs outside of the lottery, just because if you weren't drafted in those top fourteen picks, like the X dictations were, like, maybe you could be disappointed with Cole Anthony's shooting percentages or something. But he's also being tasked with a significant role as as a rookie who needs time to grow. So yeah, the guys who have impressed me so far. Number nineteen, Sadique Bay of the Detroit Pistons. I've been really impressed by his shot, by his ability to get to those open spaces working off the ball. I think that his role is only going to continue to grow in Detroit. Tyrese Maxie at number twenty one for the Philadelphia seventy six ers, where we've seen that one game where they were ultra shorthanded because everyone is in the health and safety protocols, and I think he went for thirty nine points if I remember correctly. Just that explosive scoring ability is always impressed every level player, every level. Emmanuel Quickly, who I'm sure you'll you'll want to talk more about at number of twenty five for the New York New York Knicks, as you mentioned, Peyton Pritchard. The next pick of the Boston Celtics. Desmond Baine has been the NBA ready shooter we thought he could be for the Memphis Grizzlies as the number thirty pick, and I just want to point out that the number fifty six pick of the draft, grant Roller has yet to miss a shot. I knew we weren't going to make it through this podcast with with without getting some grant Roller propaganda there. There's I wouldn't add anything to the players you're talking about, except if we wanted to talk about quickly a little bit. There is a feel for the game there outside of just his shooting of someone who can competently run point guard for New York. He has a little bit of like a subtle floater to him like that, a little bit of an in between game, and it looks like he can completly make those reads coming out of the pick and roll. So he's lost, not the loss, but he's he is playing definitively behind Alfred Peyton in minutes that that matter. So that'll and he did miss time. So there's there's that to talk about. But I hope they end up leaning on him more going forward. Some other names that stood out to me and that I do not think you mentioned. Tayo Maladon has been just fantastic in Oklahoma City in the sense that I feel like he's going to be He's already like one of the most confident passers that there might like the decisions he makes. He's just so confident that they're going to work out and they don't always do. Like that's just clear. But I feel like he's going to be end up being a pretty good offensive player in the NBA. I'll reiterate Tyres Maxie, like you said, just like the Sixers might have found a three level score who can work on or off the ball and is going to bust his ass to defend when he's on the ball as well. Like that's a huge find at number twenty one. And this is maybe I was just too low on him. I'd say stock up for this guy. But Isaiah Stewart just has more switched him on defense I think than I ever gave him credit for. And he's just kind of like you feel his minutes when he's on the court thus far of what I've seen from the Pistons anyway, And so super impressed with him there, and uh yeah, that's I think that's really those are my only strong impressions of these rookies. I don't know that I look at anyone and say like I'm super stocked down the something that maybe Cole Anthony, you mentioned one that might be fair to look at, but like you said, the circumstances under which he's playing matter, And then I think, I don't know what I would say about this player, but I am officially intrigued by him. Would be Alexei Pokashevski in Oklahoma City. There is like a real fluidity to his game, and it's so jumbled and yankee right now. I don't know what he's going to become. I still think he was a reach, where'd you end up going number seventeen? But I am officially intrigued. I don't know. I guess that makes him stock up for me, but he's someone that I'm just going to be monitoring more closely going forward. I'll give you a couple non draft pick rookies who have impressed me as well, since we're just talking about the whole rookie class. Jay Shawn Tate for the Houston Rockets. I'm totally into his defensive effort and awareness already. I think it's telling that he's already carved out like a fairly substantial role in an admittedly thin rotation. But like Houston seems to trust him on that end, which is big and The same goes for for Kunda Compozzo for the Denver Nuggets, where we knew going in that he's such an experienced player from all his overseas action that he was going to be able to immediately translate. And he has been that exact kind of pesky guard that we expected him to be. But then the more the more unknown guys in a very small sample, Nathan Knight for the Hawks has impressed me. I'd like to see more from him, just a bigger guy who who can shoot, who can really stretch the floor. And then Sam Merrill for the Milwaukee Bucks. I don't know much about him, but he's displayed this shocking all around game where he's been able to contribute, again in very limited samples, in just a number of different roles, as a facilitator, as a scorer, as a floor spacer, as a competent defender like he I want to see more from him too. This one's higher profile. Nathan Knight by the way, too, he had the one game I think, what was it Hawks. I'm just not remembering any of these opponents. I've seen too much basketball at this point. But he they're just don't banged up like they don't have a kungu and I don't think you're definitely talking about the Memphis game. Yeah, like that was just lightning Rod in that. So that's someone who's definitely worth watching moving forward. And I can't remember if you mentioned him. I know he's high profile, but precious at you in Miami, just already playing real minutes for them and seems to have a great awareness when he's off the ball, and there's excuse me, there's there's a huge motor there. And he not so much in the regular season, I think was during the preseason like he showed like, hey, maybe he'll have some more range too on the offensive end. And he feels like he's a very high IQ player right now. And so there's again, like we've said, this is deep with talent to at least worth monitor as we move into the longer term. Here, there was very few stockdowns and we're not maybe we are, like optimism is always good, I would say, but no, I don't know that you could be definitively so down on anyone at this point, aside from you thinking Killian Hayes is the worst basketball player you've ever seen, I haven't seen. Yeah, that does it for us, though, unless you have anything else to add, No, I think we covered a lot of players here, which is a testament to the depth of this class. I can't believe I've forgotten Nathan Night. He should have been at the top of the podcast. That is my big regret. We will leave you though with this. Please, please, pretty please remember to rate, review and subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts, whether or not you use iTunes, though, head over there search Hardwood Knox Writer Review, throw us a five star rating five star ratings only, and then write whatever you want in the review mean, constructive criticism, happy, whatever thoughts about why frank Nie Lakina is the best player you've ever seen. We really do appreciate that. Follow us on Twitter at hardwin Knox. Don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel where a podcasts are posted as well YouTube dot com search Hardwoo Knox. Until next time, though, we gave you at the shout out to the one the only should have been mentioned sooner in this podcast. Rookie and two Way contract folder, Nathan Night, Sugar Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran, Marvelous, Marvin Hagler, and Thomas Hearns legends whose four way rivalry define one of the greatest errors in boxing history relive their decade of dominance in the new Showtime Sports documentary The Kings, a four parts series premiering Sunday, June sixth, only on Showtime