WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.879 --> 00:00:08.800 You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting 2 00:00:08.839 --> 00:00:14.000 podcasts, just go to IFAH podcast network dot com. Welcome to the Bulleproof 3 00:00:14.000 --> 00:00:19.239 Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number three h eight. You fail only if you stop 4 00:00:19.320 --> 00:00:25.199 writing. Ray Bradberry broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in Hollywood when we 5 00:00:25.199 --> 00:00:29.719 really should be working on that next draft. It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, 6 00:00:30.120 --> 00:00:33.799 showing you the craft and business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your 7 00:00:33.840 --> 00:00:40.159 screenplay bulletproof. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to 8 00:00:40.200 --> 00:00:44.079 another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. I am your humble host, Alex 9 00:00:44.119 --> 00:00:49.799 Ferrari. Now, today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof Script Coverage. Now, 10 00:00:49.880 --> 00:00:56.119 unlike other script coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses on the kind of 11 00:00:56.240 --> 00:00:59.840 project you are in the goals of the project you are, so we actually 12 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:03.319 break it down by three categories microbudget, indie film, market, and studio 13 00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:07.599 film. There's no reason to get coverage from a reader that used to reading 14 00:01:07.640 --> 00:01:11.719 tempole movies when your movie is going to be done for one hundred thousand dollars. 15 00:01:11.799 --> 00:01:15.480 And we wanted to focus on that At Bulletproof Script Coverage, our readers 16 00:01:15.480 --> 00:01:19.400 have worked with Marvel Studios, CIA, WM, NBC, HBO, Disney, 17 00:01:19.879 --> 00:01:23.200 Scott Free, Warner Brothers, The Blacklist, and many many more. 18 00:01:23.359 --> 00:01:30.319 So if you need your screenplay or TV script covered by professional readers, head 19 00:01:30.359 --> 00:01:36.519 on over to cover my Screenplay dot com. Now, today we go inside 20 00:01:36.599 --> 00:01:42.879 the mind of screenwriter Randall Jansen. Now. Randall is the writer of The 21 00:01:42.959 --> 00:01:49.120 Doors Mask of Zoro and he worked on Tales from the Crypt HBO Legendary HBO 22 00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:53.560 series, among many other projects in the course of his amazing career. Now 23 00:01:53.560 --> 00:02:01.239 the interview with Randall originally aired on the Filmtrooper podcast and Scott over there did 24 00:02:01.359 --> 00:02:08.560 an amazing in depth interview with Randall. Enjoyed this episode with guest host Scott 25 00:02:08.599 --> 00:02:14.400 McMahon. We are at the Highland Stillhouse in Oregan City, in Oregon City. 26 00:02:14.439 --> 00:02:20.800 So Organ City used to be the original capital of Organ before it was 27 00:02:20.960 --> 00:02:24.080 they moved to Salem. But Organ City was it sort of the last city 28 00:02:24.159 --> 00:02:28.319 or the city established at the end of the Oregan Trail? Was That is 29 00:02:28.360 --> 00:02:37.560 correct? And it was also auspicious in that it was settled by a guy 30 00:02:37.639 --> 00:02:42.120 who bailed out of the Hudson's Bay Company on the fur trade, doctor John 31 00:02:42.199 --> 00:02:46.439 McLaughlin, and settled down and put a trading post right at the foot of 32 00:02:46.439 --> 00:02:53.919 the Willamette River falls here, which was the site of a magnificent Native American 33 00:02:54.280 --> 00:03:00.759 metropolis and had been for thousands, probably thousands of years. And he just 34 00:03:00.800 --> 00:03:07.360 came in planets his trading post right there at the right in the midst of 35 00:03:07.360 --> 00:03:12.879 it, and took a Native American woman for a wife. I believe his 36 00:03:13.000 --> 00:03:16.840 biography is or is his story is one of the things that's on my list 37 00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:21.120 to really read about it. But it's a fascinating story. But this was 38 00:03:21.159 --> 00:03:23.840 back in the eighteen forties, I believe. Well, so it wasn't wow, 39 00:03:23.919 --> 00:03:27.280 Okay, So I mean when I think about it, it's like, 40 00:03:28.280 --> 00:03:30.560 what was the Organ Trail was really eighteen hundreds, wasn't? Yeah, it 41 00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:36.039 started in the eighteen really in the eighteen forties. You know, once the 42 00:03:36.120 --> 00:03:42.280 Organ Territory was established and they the word got out of the very fertile farmland 43 00:03:42.840 --> 00:03:46.599 potential of it, it started creating the migration west. You know. It's 44 00:03:46.639 --> 00:03:51.439 funny. I went on a field with my daughter. They went to the 45 00:03:51.439 --> 00:03:55.879 Foster Farms over in Organ City was one of the first farms outposts for all 46 00:03:55.960 --> 00:04:02.919 the trout you know, pioneer years coming in from the Organ Trail and Foster 47 00:04:03.680 --> 00:04:09.560 he was successful starting up like a general store on in Boston or something like 48 00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:13.479 that. And once he saw that the Organ territory was opening up, he 49 00:04:13.599 --> 00:04:16.480 decided not to take the Organ Trail. He took a ship with his family 50 00:04:16.519 --> 00:04:20.680 and he took his business and decided to open up another store over here in 51 00:04:20.720 --> 00:04:26.120 Oregon. But he took the route of going down the Atlantic all the way 52 00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:31.319 down past the tip of Chile, you know down there the Pacific, coming 53 00:04:31.319 --> 00:04:34.199 all the way up to Pacific. So he never he took that route all 54 00:04:34.199 --> 00:04:40.480 the way instead of taking the wagon trail. Yeah, so he established an 55 00:04:40.480 --> 00:04:45.160 option. So he established the farm and like the outposts of where people came 56 00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:50.600 through hood mountain Hood, right, so, and they would help actually carve 57 00:04:50.639 --> 00:04:56.120 out some roads and passages. Because when I think people when the pioneers came 58 00:04:56.199 --> 00:04:58.720 to Oregon, either they were going to take the Columbia River all the way 59 00:04:58.839 --> 00:05:01.319 you know down or some would take try to get through mountain hood. And 60 00:05:01.439 --> 00:05:04.879 so those who try to venture and get through mountain Hood, they had to 61 00:05:05.399 --> 00:05:10.639 um you know, they got stuck or something like that. So Foster and 62 00:05:10.879 --> 00:05:14.360 his people end up you know, helping him out, helping out a lot 63 00:05:14.360 --> 00:05:17.600 of pioneers and developing a road there. So they he had this outposts and 64 00:05:18.519 --> 00:05:21.160 he had the general story there, he had the farm, he had like 65 00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:27.240 a little you know, like many what he called lodges or ends, you 66 00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:30.759 know, where people could stay. So it's like it was the first site 67 00:05:30.759 --> 00:05:34.279 of civilization for a lot of pioneers after his long journey and he just made 68 00:05:34.360 --> 00:05:38.040 a killing. And so they had this farm that you can go to. 69 00:05:38.639 --> 00:05:42.480 It's an educational farm, but it's still we're walking through the house, you 70 00:05:42.519 --> 00:05:45.680 know, seeing the stuff they use, seeing the farm, seeing the barn. 71 00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:48.040 And it was just made. It was allowed all the kids, so 72 00:05:48.160 --> 00:05:51.560 like, you know, really hands on experience what it could have would have 73 00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:56.399 been like as a you know, a pioneer in the Organ Trail. Wow. 74 00:05:56.519 --> 00:05:58.959 So it was a little bit of history that I had no idea about. 75 00:05:58.959 --> 00:06:00.639 There. I was like, wow, that's pretty cool. Sure they 76 00:06:00.720 --> 00:06:08.360 have they have a museum over here for the Oregon Trail Museum, which I 77 00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:12.959 believe has been shut down now because of lack of funding. Because of the 78 00:06:13.040 --> 00:06:17.560 budget cuts and everything else. But that was one of the things I've been 79 00:06:17.560 --> 00:06:25.959 amused actually since I moved up here from California that that with the Oregon Trail, 80 00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:31.639 that was the the overland route that a lot of people who were heading 81 00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:35.920 to the California gold rush took. Yeah, and so at one point, 82 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:41.680 you know, you have the trail diverts, you know, and you go 83 00:06:42.360 --> 00:06:46.439 go to California search for gold or you go to Oregon and both and growth 84 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:49.680 things. You know. I think that was a very interesting dichotomy there of 85 00:06:49.720 --> 00:06:55.920 where you know, it sort of really underscores the differences between California and Oregon. 86 00:06:55.959 --> 00:06:59.480 Now that I was funny because it's sort of the what exists today. 87 00:06:59.519 --> 00:07:02.399 Oh, I'm that's my point. That's my point exactly. So I'm a 88 00:07:02.399 --> 00:07:06.920 little slow today. That's all right, We'll just have another have another beer. 89 00:07:06.920 --> 00:07:12.839 There you'll you'll catch um. It was a great segue. So one 90 00:07:12.879 --> 00:07:15.199 of the things I wanted to do with you is, like I one of 91 00:07:15.199 --> 00:07:19.959 my favorite podcasts is the Creative Screenwriting UM podcasts UM hosted by Jeff Goldsmith, 92 00:07:20.360 --> 00:07:27.439 and he's now since left a senior editor of Creative screen screen Creative Screenwriting Magazine 93 00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:31.519 and Uh. He started his own podcast called Q and ANK Question and Answer 94 00:07:31.639 --> 00:07:36.959 with Jeff Goldsmith because he's been really instrumental and and holding these uh free screenings 95 00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:41.879 down in Los Angeles of just different movies. And at the end of every 96 00:07:41.959 --> 00:07:45.959 these free screenings, at the end of every movie, he would have um 97 00:07:46.199 --> 00:07:49.519 the screenwriters there to like talk for like an hour and a half about the 98 00:07:49.560 --> 00:07:53.639 movie, their their experience and all that kind of stuff. What a concept 99 00:07:53.680 --> 00:07:56.240 actually having the writer, Oh, I know, you know, and he's 100 00:07:56.279 --> 00:08:01.319 he's great, and I really enjoy like his style of interviewing, and you 101 00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:03.639 know, and I could tell like sometimes he's polite to like some of the 102 00:08:03.720 --> 00:08:07.720 people or some of the work that they've done. But inside I could tell, 103 00:08:07.720 --> 00:08:11.120 like that comic book geek in him once ago, what were you thinking? 104 00:08:11.199 --> 00:08:13.120 You know, that kind of thing. But he's still very cordial about 105 00:08:13.120 --> 00:08:16.959 it. Sure. He actually happened to be in college the roommate of Dame 106 00:08:18.079 --> 00:08:22.360 Jaffee. Jame Jaffee was the creator of God a War and some of the 107 00:08:22.360 --> 00:08:26.920 Twist of Melsers who I worked with that sony for many years. So when 108 00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:28.959 I met up with Jeff, you know, I introduced myself via that way. 109 00:08:30.079 --> 00:08:33.399 So he was very cool, but he's very busy. And again, 110 00:08:33.440 --> 00:08:37.559 for anybody who wants to check out his stuff, definitely check out Q and 111 00:08:37.639 --> 00:08:41.240 A with Jeff Goldsmith or some of the past stuff on Creative Screen Screenwriting magazine. 112 00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:46.679 But anyway, this is my chance to do my really horrible impersonation of 113 00:08:46.799 --> 00:08:52.519 Jeff interviewing you randall as if like we just finished the screening and oh you 114 00:08:52.519 --> 00:08:54.799 know, and we had this big audience, but right now we're just we 115 00:08:54.879 --> 00:09:01.600 have this cool little puff. It's funny because I note is I normally do 116 00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:05.679 my UM podcast and at Mars Irish Pub and right yeah, like it's gonna 117 00:09:05.720 --> 00:09:09.399 suggest that for you as well. Yeah, so we go there every other 118 00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:13.600 week, my buddy Frederick and I and we go down and he knows everybody 119 00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:16.759 there and so we we're regulars there every like every other Monday night. Okay, 120 00:09:18.039 --> 00:09:20.799 um, But it's funny that it's an Irish pub and here we are 121 00:09:20.240 --> 00:09:26.000 crosses away in Oregan City and a Scottish Irish pub. Again, so they 122 00:09:26.039 --> 00:09:28.080 will tell you it's a Scottish pub. There won't be There's not much any 123 00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:31.240 there, not much Irish here. Okay, good, you know, although 124 00:09:31.240 --> 00:09:35.879 I do see the Bank of Ireland. Uh yeah, him go over there, 125 00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:39.000 you know, but if they had a choice, it would be you 126 00:09:39.039 --> 00:09:45.159 know, basically it's anti English and it's charming. I mean both places are 127 00:09:45.200 --> 00:09:48.120 just charming on this like old style bar. So anybody gets up here, 128 00:09:48.120 --> 00:09:52.759 you gotta check out these places. So we have Mars Irish Pub and l 129 00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:56.639 and we have the Highland Still Still House here in Organ City, ye, 130 00:09:56.759 --> 00:10:03.720 which which if you're a fan of single Scotches, We'll be right back after 131 00:10:03.759 --> 00:10:13.200 a word from our sponsor and now back to the show. This has one 132 00:10:13.240 --> 00:10:18.639 of the best collections you will find anywhere, arguably even on the entire West 133 00:10:18.679 --> 00:10:24.759 coast. So this the the Mick and his wife who owned the place, 134 00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:28.639 are huge Scotch files and they're just uh, I have to learn more about 135 00:10:28.679 --> 00:10:31.159 this. Yeah, I have this. I had this, the nate desire 136 00:10:31.240 --> 00:10:37.200 to want to get into tastes. Well, there's part of it. I 137 00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:41.720 was my honeymoon in Scotland and so that's where I started. That's where I 138 00:10:41.799 --> 00:10:46.000 started, you know, acquiring the taste, and so it was it was 139 00:10:46.919 --> 00:10:48.360 it was more of what you were acquiring. You weren't just because now you're 140 00:10:48.399 --> 00:10:52.679 married. You were just drinking more. I well, I come up, 141 00:10:52.679 --> 00:10:56.000 well, I come up for excuses to drink more, you know, and 142 00:10:56.720 --> 00:11:01.440 I started drinking. I should never drink until my daughter was born. Yeah, 143 00:11:01.480 --> 00:11:05.320 and then I started to drink drink a lot more. Yeah, ways 144 00:11:05.399 --> 00:11:09.480 upon you heavily. So anyway, being the parent, So I wanted to 145 00:11:09.639 --> 00:11:15.200 the first question that Jeff always asked us is he always wants to know breaking 146 00:11:15.200 --> 00:11:18.919 in stories of like how you got started in the business, or what was 147 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:22.960 your like your first paying job, or how you know, yeah, how 148 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:26.720 you broke in. Well, I went to film school at UCLA, and 149 00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:33.600 at that time I entered the film school there in nineteen seventy nine, and 150 00:11:33.799 --> 00:11:39.120 you were basically thrown into a little life raft with a bunch of other people 151 00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:45.360 doing that had the same aspirations to either be a writer, director, working 152 00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:50.960 in the film industry in one way or another. And so you also quick 153 00:11:50.159 --> 00:11:54.639 was that time the late seventies, like, because I know that this is 154 00:11:54.639 --> 00:11:58.200 the very late seventies seventy nine when I started, But I was wondering if, 155 00:11:58.600 --> 00:12:03.399 like the early eighties was it? Um, I can't remember. Was 156 00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:07.720 there a golden age of like where everybody wanted to go to film school because 157 00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:13.960 I know that there was a kind of a the the film school sort of 158 00:12:13.960 --> 00:12:22.080 bonanza occurred in the UH I would say probably the mid seventies, okay, 159 00:12:22.120 --> 00:12:26.679 and carried on all through into the early eighties. Um. And that was 160 00:12:26.679 --> 00:12:31.919 basically because George Lucas, Steven Spielberg, Ron Howard, they were all products 161 00:12:31.960 --> 00:12:39.320 of film school, you know, Francis Coppola of course, yeah and Squirses 162 00:12:39.519 --> 00:12:46.000 yeah yeah, yeah, you of course and um so and that was it. 163 00:12:46.039 --> 00:12:48.240 I mean, basically we just covered the film school landscape. At that 164 00:12:48.279 --> 00:12:54.000 time. There was three places to go, USC, UCLA, and NYU. 165 00:12:54.600 --> 00:12:58.840 And for me, I had grown up in the San Diego area, 166 00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:05.600 uh and I couldn't afford going to SC and NYU was just about as far 167 00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:11.559 removed from a South California beach as possible. Um. And I used to 168 00:13:11.559 --> 00:13:15.279 go with my dad, who worked for the UC system, up to see 169 00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:18.639 basketball games at UCLA when John Wooden was coaching there. So, um, 170 00:13:18.679 --> 00:13:24.440 that was sort of the natural place to go to and it was vastly cheaper 171 00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:30.080 than SC. Right And actually what I liked about SC that there were differences 172 00:13:30.120 --> 00:13:31.840 in the curriculum at that time too, which was that if you wanted to 173 00:13:31.879 --> 00:13:37.919 be. UM. If you if you had a very specific idea of what 174 00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:39.600 you wanted to do in the in the film industry, whether you wanted to 175 00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:46.039 be a sound editor or an editor, or a cinematographer or a director, 176 00:13:46.039 --> 00:13:52.879 producer, whatever, you would go to SC because they had very clear tracks 177 00:13:52.399 --> 00:14:00.240 and each of those those specific professions. UCLA it was much much looser and 178 00:14:00.639 --> 00:14:05.279 they were kind of had this had sort of the stigma, if you will, 179 00:14:05.559 --> 00:14:09.559 uh, being of creating a tours um. You know, you were 180 00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:13.759 you were the complete filmmaker in a sense once you came out of UCLA. 181 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:16.679 But the difference, another difference was is that you had to fund all your 182 00:14:16.679 --> 00:14:24.080 own stuff after after the basic Super eight class that occurred when you first entered 183 00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:26.639 school. Uh, SC that didn't happen. You had to um. They 184 00:14:26.759 --> 00:14:33.360 funded the advanced projects, um, but you had to compete with other people 185 00:14:33.399 --> 00:14:39.679 to get that one or two directing positions that they would do. Anyone could 186 00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:43.039 be a director at UCLA if you had the money for it, which to 187 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:46.440 me, it was really like the real world, much more like the real 188 00:14:46.440 --> 00:14:52.039 world. Yeah. Yeah, Coppola came to UCLA. Jim Morrison and ray 189 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:54.559 Man's Erica. The doors were there. Um, you know, that was 190 00:14:54.600 --> 00:14:58.320 in the that was the very early sixties. Um, you know, but 191 00:15:00.080 --> 00:15:05.480 I mean there's you know Paul um oh um names. I knew this would 192 00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:09.720 happen. The names start fading, you know, from me who wrote a 193 00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:13.159 taxi driver, um Trader, Paul Schrader, thank you. I went to 194 00:15:13.240 --> 00:15:16.919 UCLA. Um, you know, I mean the list of names, he's 195 00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:22.559 very long and prominent, right that UCLA is produced and n SC as well. 196 00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:28.399 So you know when I went to uh UCSD and I was looking around, 197 00:15:28.440 --> 00:15:33.559 I went to junior college. First, went to UM Palmar College, 198 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:37.919 right, and the only fame claim to fame we had there was that Phil 199 00:15:37.960 --> 00:15:43.960 Tippett was famous visual effects artists from the Star Wars films and his you know, 200 00:15:43.960 --> 00:15:46.559 all his stop modes. I interviewed Phil when I wrote for the Carl's 201 00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:48.759 Bad Journal back in nineteen seventies. Okay, so you know great, right, 202 00:15:48.879 --> 00:15:52.320 So his claim to fame was that he went to that school. So 203 00:15:52.559 --> 00:15:54.480 it was great, you know, T year school, you get out, 204 00:15:54.519 --> 00:15:56.960 sure, then you can transfer anywhere. And then I didn't know where to 205 00:15:56.000 --> 00:15:58.200 go exactly, I want. I looked at San Francisco State. I looked 206 00:15:58.200 --> 00:16:03.279 at uc USC like the UCLA. For some reason, I decided, of 207 00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:06.559 all places, to goo UCSD, which probably wasn't the best choice of film 208 00:16:06.559 --> 00:16:11.120 school, but I don't know. It was nearby near a beach, near 209 00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:14.720 beach, definitely, definitely. So the funny thing was I spent a lot 210 00:16:15.159 --> 00:16:18.799 more time when I was there because the way they had the film track was 211 00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:23.399 that everything was really dedicated towards the graduate film students. As an undergrad, 212 00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:29.120 you were you didn't really get chancey two hands on. Knowing that now, 213 00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:30.919 I probably should have gone to maybe like Santego State, which is much more 214 00:16:30.919 --> 00:16:36.279 of a more of a vocational approach to the education. But I spent a 215 00:16:36.279 --> 00:16:41.639 lot of time with this scraduate film student from UCLA who was doing her thesis 216 00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:45.039 or her work down in UCSD. So she had access to all the you 217 00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:48.600 know, the editing bays, the rooms, and she's trying to finish her 218 00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:52.399 her thesis. She just needed an assistant. So I was there and I 219 00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:55.679 got all this hands on training of how to like you know, cut film 220 00:16:55.799 --> 00:16:59.240 and you know, put all this stuff together. And then she would I 221 00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:02.919 would go up with or Um on a regular basis to UCLA and just I 222 00:17:02.960 --> 00:17:04.839 was crashing courses. I didn't even go to this school where I was at 223 00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:08.880 UCLA, just sitting in at the short courses. So kind of give me 224 00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:11.799 a different perspective of things. Hey, that's my yeah, okay, well 225 00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:15.960 there you go. Well, um, at that time again, this is 226 00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:18.599 in the late seventies, you know, those were the three places to go. 227 00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:23.440 Now it's the landscape is vastly different. Every almost every college has a 228 00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:29.279 film department or media department and something something like that. So I mean that 229 00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:33.640 just shows you how thing things have changed. Um. So anyway, I 230 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:40.039 went through the film program and at UCLA at that time, they didn't have 231 00:17:40.839 --> 00:17:47.880 or the difference. There was no difference between the undergrad and the graduate programs 232 00:17:48.599 --> 00:17:53.599 those days. Those days. Um, literally in my in my second year 233 00:17:53.640 --> 00:18:03.759 there, the graduate students rebelled and stage a little um demonstration and really forced 234 00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:10.640 the hand of the school to alter the curriculum in a sense to favor grad 235 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:12.880 students because basically, and I think they had a legitimate beef. They were 236 00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:18.480 competing with you know, freshmen who were new to the or new to the 237 00:18:18.519 --> 00:18:22.559 department for you know, the limited amount of materials and cameras and things that 238 00:18:22.599 --> 00:18:26.319 we had to do their graduate films and so which were really wasn't fair. 239 00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:33.559 So they did an overhaul of the curriculum and my like or they didn't do 240 00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:37.880 it overnight. It actually happened right after I graduated. So basically I benefited 241 00:18:37.079 --> 00:18:42.680 from having basically had a graduate education as an undergrad. Wow, because I 242 00:18:44.039 --> 00:18:49.680 stuck it out and went an extra years as an undergrad. Later. Yeah, 243 00:18:49.720 --> 00:18:52.920 and then they kicked me out. I said, it's time for you 244 00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:56.680 to move on. Yeah, I had maxed out every unit possible, but 245 00:18:56.799 --> 00:19:00.640 knowing that I took every writing class I wanted to do when I first got 246 00:19:00.680 --> 00:19:03.599 in there, I was hoping to be a director. That was my aspirations. 247 00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:07.640 Like everybody else, that's what I wanted to do. But you you 248 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:11.480 had to fund your own films, um, and I didn't have that kind 249 00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:18.079 of money. Um you know. Um. So I realized that well, 250 00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:22.440 typing paper was cheap at that point, and I said, well, shoot, 251 00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:25.720 I'm just gonna I'm gonna write and I'm going to direct my movies on 252 00:19:25.799 --> 00:19:30.880 paper and then eventually, if I get enough clout, I will be able 253 00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:33.279 to direct something that I write myself. So that was that was the philosophy. 254 00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:37.519 That hasn't happened, by the way, but it has happened for a 255 00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:41.960 lot of people that I know. Now. You wrote, so you're a 256 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:47.079 writer when you're younger too, Like, yeah, I mean I was. 257 00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:49.279 I started writing, like as soon as I learned to write, you know, 258 00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:55.400 I just was. I had kind of spates where I was very prolific. 259 00:19:55.519 --> 00:20:00.720 Third grade, especially seventh grade was also a big one. We'll be 260 00:20:00.839 --> 00:20:07.839 right back after a word from our sponsor and now back to the show. 261 00:20:10.759 --> 00:20:15.359 But I initially wanted to be a journalist. I actually wanted to be Cameron 262 00:20:15.400 --> 00:20:19.119 Crowe because I loved Rolling Stone and loved music still when I was in high 263 00:20:19.160 --> 00:20:22.680 school. That that's what I was aspiring to be, was to be like 264 00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:27.119 a music journalist of some sort. Um. There was a great writer for 265 00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:32.160 Rolling Stone at that pool point. I think he's back now writing some stuff 266 00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:34.440 for them again, but named Charles M. Young, who did just some 267 00:20:34.519 --> 00:20:40.359 fantastic interviews with like the Sex Pistols and Kiss And I still have those issues 268 00:20:40.359 --> 00:20:47.079 because the writing is just so so funny and insightful and really great and just 269 00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:49.960 inspired me a great deal to be to be, you know. And this 270 00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:55.400 was the era too, where Tom Wolfe was doing um, you know, 271 00:20:55.440 --> 00:20:59.119 electric cooleid acid test on the heels of that kind of what is known as 272 00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:03.119 the new journalism, where it was just wasn't real cut and dry, but 273 00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:11.279 actually there was a great deal of reportage uh going on and and uh quasi 274 00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:15.839 sermonizing that would be worked in by um, the likes of Charles M. 275 00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:22.880 Young or um, um you know, the our Gonzo Hunter Thompson kind of 276 00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:25.400 you know, people of that sort. It was a it was an interesting 277 00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:30.680 time to be in journalism. Um. And then I wanted to be a 278 00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:33.519 magazine freelance magazine writer. I thought, yeah, and then I realized I 279 00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:37.920 probably really couldn't make a whole lot of money at it. Um. But 280 00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:42.079 I and I had started working for my hometown newspaper in Carl's Bad, California, 281 00:21:42.200 --> 00:21:48.119 writing writing sports for them, and then in the summertime when I was 282 00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:49.759 out of high school, it worked into full time work where I was doing 283 00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:55.720 feature articles. So I was interviewing surfers and runners and and Carl's Bad was 284 00:21:55.759 --> 00:22:00.759 also the site of a motocross, um, uh say, seeing out there 285 00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:03.799 and doing some reporting on that. It was just a lot of it was 286 00:22:03.960 --> 00:22:07.119 it was very interesting, and I learned how to interview people at an early 287 00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:11.480 age, which was a great thing. Then I knew that I wanted to 288 00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:15.279 continue with writing of some sort but in my studies at school, but I 289 00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:19.319 just wasn't sure what kind it was. So I too went to Community College 290 00:22:19.359 --> 00:22:25.160 Maracosta. Okay, yeah, just because I was working at the at the 291 00:22:25.160 --> 00:22:27.960 newspaper still and I was getting experience there part time, and I thought, 292 00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:33.160 well, get a couple more years their experience and then take classes and get 293 00:22:33.160 --> 00:22:37.039 my basic education out of the way, and then by that time maybe I'll 294 00:22:37.079 --> 00:22:41.200 know what to do. And I happened to take a playwriting course and that 295 00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:47.359 was very interesting. That opened up my eyes to dramatic writing and I and 296 00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:52.880 I realized that, yeah, playwriting wasn't quite it for me, but screenwriting 297 00:22:55.119 --> 00:23:00.319 that sounded very avant garde and very cool. So that's what I was all 298 00:23:00.440 --> 00:23:04.000 like, maybe like when the first moments that you like wrote a piece or 299 00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:08.680 a paragraph or something or somebody else wrote and you were able to witness sort 300 00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:14.160 of a a positive sort of emotional response from it, or it's just like 301 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:17.400 a like a one moment like you wrote something where maybe you felt good about 302 00:23:17.400 --> 00:23:22.400 it or somebody else's reaction to it was surprising, but you know what I 303 00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:26.839 mean, it's just like it. It made you want to keep going or 304 00:23:26.599 --> 00:23:37.119 or want more of that or anything or feedback. Um. Yeah, that's 305 00:23:37.160 --> 00:23:42.039 an interesting question. Um. I wrote three scripts when I was at UCLA, 306 00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:48.279 three full length scripts, and they were pretty abysmal. Um, but 307 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:53.920 my instructors were very supportive. I got a's on them. Okay, um, 308 00:23:56.319 --> 00:23:57.200 yes, that's right for you here, thank you. What did they 309 00:23:57.240 --> 00:24:06.440 called Scottish as Yeah, the Scotch eggs. Yeah. Um. And that 310 00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:11.119 was initially I think, be studying and doing that to get that kind of 311 00:24:11.960 --> 00:24:17.480 thumbs up from them was very positive. That that made a big impression on 312 00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:23.400 me. Um. And then once I got out of school to have some 313 00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:27.799 peers of mind to just kind of comment, there's mustard right there, you 314 00:24:27.839 --> 00:24:38.519 can dip into that. Um. That was positive, but nothing was as 315 00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:48.799 strong as getting um, um, the kind of the endorsement of a true 316 00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:55.119 professional somebody working in the business kind of just mangle this one, this matter. 317 00:24:56.440 --> 00:25:02.440 Yeah, that's all right, there we go. Yeah, it's good, 318 00:25:03.559 --> 00:25:12.960 all right, mm hmm, yes, what's it's funny? Um can 319 00:25:14.440 --> 00:25:15.480 get my trains top. All right, now, this is really delicious. 320 00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:27.319 I know. I'm sorry, we can keep. Don't worry about this. 321 00:25:29.160 --> 00:25:34.799 I pause, cut this out. This is good. Oh no, don't 322 00:25:34.839 --> 00:25:38.000 I mean this. I mean it's like your interview. So it's like and 323 00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:45.680 the food. Oh yeah, mah oh no, there's more mustard right there. 324 00:25:45.799 --> 00:25:48.519 Yeah, I got something to say. Yeah. So it's an egg. 325 00:25:49.359 --> 00:25:56.000 It's wrapped in sausage and deep pride. M h it's really healthy. 326 00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:00.640 So so is it a boiled egg first? And then they put it into 327 00:26:00.680 --> 00:26:07.839 like a sausage and they have to fry that, I think so yeah, 328 00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:15.240 m hm mm hmmm. No, I'll show with this beer I'm drinking. 329 00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:22.480 You know, listen, yummy. It's a great place to be in anytime. 330 00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:26.799 But I love coming here on a when it's howling wind out and co 331 00:26:27.799 --> 00:26:33.839 there you go. And well, this place is located right by the river 332 00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:37.519 vers Falls. This is the fall, like is it the lamb it falls? 333 00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:42.000 Yeah, lambit rights. So he definitely has a propensity for the wind 334 00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:48.920 and the weather. Chains Um, before the paper mill was shut down, 335 00:26:52.079 --> 00:27:00.359 certain fumes wafting up from from the mild and uh sort of sweetened things. 336 00:27:02.599 --> 00:27:18.240 And I mean that I mean that facetiously. So yeah, So anyway, 337 00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:26.240 so can you recall like, um, well, let me backtrack. Do 338 00:27:26.319 --> 00:27:30.920 you recall like one movie, like a movie experience you had where you thought 339 00:27:30.920 --> 00:27:37.519 to yourself that you were like moved or inspired to say, yeah, I 340 00:27:37.640 --> 00:27:42.240 want more of this or like for me as a kid, I remember, 341 00:27:44.119 --> 00:27:47.880 you know, movies were just always sort of part of just growing up. 342 00:27:48.440 --> 00:27:52.039 But the first time I remember seeing the sort of a I don't say I 343 00:27:52.039 --> 00:27:56.319 had a more mature, non sort of spectacle movie, you know that I 344 00:27:56.440 --> 00:28:00.079 realized was different than what I had seen before. It was one of my 345 00:28:00.200 --> 00:28:03.519 parents, I think, took me to see Amadeus. Oh you know, 346 00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:08.599 so I was floored by that movie because I thought to myself, I just 347 00:28:08.920 --> 00:28:12.720 went through something that I never thought I would be entertained by because I thought 348 00:28:12.759 --> 00:28:17.519 I had to have like, you know, laser guns or cowboys or indians 349 00:28:17.799 --> 00:28:21.079 or aliens or spaceships or explosions, because that's, you know, that was 350 00:28:21.160 --> 00:28:23.559 my appetite. I just that I was second nature. But once I was 351 00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:30.920 introduced to a film that was had none of that but engaged and captured, 352 00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:36.039 my interest had definitely changed something in me. As well as another film that 353 00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:40.400 I wasn't expecting to was somewhere in time because I was just like, oh, 354 00:28:40.400 --> 00:28:42.119 it's super Man. But to me, I was like, what was 355 00:28:42.200 --> 00:28:45.759 that? And that that got to me. And so I remember those two 356 00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:51.359 films of all films that sort of changed my perspective. And then I remember 357 00:28:51.599 --> 00:28:55.400 having UM. When I got into college, I wasn't thinking about film. 358 00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:57.440 I was thinking about studying illustration and art. I went there for that, 359 00:28:59.079 --> 00:29:03.319 but then got sort of the film bug myself and came across I had to 360 00:29:03.400 --> 00:29:07.839 take a scriptwriting class. It's very, very cheesy, but I remember going 361 00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:11.400 to the library. At the time, this is before the internet. You 362 00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:14.559 actually had to go to the library. We'll check out the reference books, 363 00:29:14.839 --> 00:29:18.920 and they had real scripts, and I remember reading Ordinary People and I never 364 00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:22.839 seen the film. I just read the screenplay, and I remember it was 365 00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:25.519 just turning the page out to turning the page because I just had to get 366 00:29:25.559 --> 00:29:30.480 through it. But just having that first experience of absorbing what a script looks 367 00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:33.119 like, and I didn't know what, you know, all the wrole things 368 00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:34.480 meant, you know, what is I and t X all that kind of 369 00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:37.680 stuff. We started beginning to figure out the little code or the language. 370 00:29:38.240 --> 00:29:44.759 But I remember having that significant moment as well coming out of that going what 371 00:29:44.920 --> 00:29:47.960 did I just read? What did I just experience? And we wanted to 372 00:29:47.960 --> 00:29:51.720 ask you did you have anything like that? Well? I did as a 373 00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:59.720 kid. This is I mean going way back. We'll be right back after 374 00:29:59.799 --> 00:30:07.279 a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show. And I 375 00:30:07.480 --> 00:30:12.000 really would have to say that I didn't know the impact that would had on 376 00:30:12.079 --> 00:30:18.599 me at the time, obviously, but it's really almost now that I look 377 00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:21.440 back on those times as they want, now I understand why I was so 378 00:30:21.720 --> 00:30:27.000 moved and influenced by And this is it goes back to when we first moved 379 00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:38.160 to California and my parents were running a beach front motel in Oceanside called the 380 00:30:38.200 --> 00:30:45.160 Buccaneer, which was the Buccaneer Beach, you know in Oceanside, and it 381 00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:48.920 h it had all these pirate motifs and everything like that. So my first 382 00:30:49.039 --> 00:30:56.359 five years in California after moving from Utah to we're here at the Buccaneer Motel 383 00:30:56.279 --> 00:31:00.359 with all the pirate motifs running around there, and I used to, you 384 00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:03.279 know, run around there and have a lot of fun and meet a lot 385 00:31:03.319 --> 00:31:07.920 of different people. That were staying there. But they would always on the 386 00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:12.039 weekends we would go my parents would take a break. Because we lived on 387 00:31:12.079 --> 00:31:15.359 the premises, there was no escape from it. My parents would go to 388 00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:22.680 a drive in movie out an Oceanside and yeah, yeah, and so the 389 00:31:23.119 --> 00:31:30.440 the it's an airfield now, yeah it is, and the the the ritual 390 00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:33.519 was basically they would pop their own popcorn ahead of time, put it into 391 00:31:33.559 --> 00:31:38.839 a big brown paper market sack, and we would They would take a cooler 392 00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:45.200 full of Cragmont sodas and they would put me in pj's. I had two 393 00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:47.880 older brothers who were ten and twelve years older than me, so they didn't 394 00:31:47.880 --> 00:31:49.400 want to They were teenagers by this time. They didn't want to have anything 395 00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:52.599 to do with that, so they would just stay at home. But I 396 00:31:52.640 --> 00:31:59.440 would go with my parents with them to the drive end and then I would 397 00:31:59.440 --> 00:32:01.640 be in my pj's and they would always hope that I would fall asleep in 398 00:32:01.960 --> 00:32:06.640 the back seat. At least that was the plan while they watched these, 399 00:32:06.839 --> 00:32:10.160 you know, sometimes very adult movies, and lo and behold, I never 400 00:32:10.279 --> 00:32:15.960 fell asleep once because I was so intrigued by what I was seeing. And 401 00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:17.599 I can tell you exactly what I saw, you know, I saw Bunny 402 00:32:17.640 --> 00:32:22.640 and Clyde. WHOA, yeah, well, I think they had intended that 403 00:32:22.759 --> 00:32:28.119 I had fallen asleep. They had no idea and I don't, and they 404 00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:32.079 probably were. They were not film savvy at all. They were probably didn't 405 00:32:32.079 --> 00:32:37.200 have any idea what they were in store for. Um. But I recall, 406 00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:43.960 I recall very clearly, um the opening frames of that where you see, 407 00:32:44.279 --> 00:32:47.680 you know, the naked fade unaway in her but you know up there 408 00:32:47.720 --> 00:32:52.799 on that big screen, I just my eyes grot really wide. I'm going, 409 00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:59.039 wow, this is wild. And I was just riveted from that point 410 00:32:59.079 --> 00:33:07.000 and r oh. I mean, I can still recall being in the back 411 00:33:07.079 --> 00:33:14.799 seat and seeing my parents visibly recoil from the one after they make the one 412 00:33:14.920 --> 00:33:19.880 robbery and the guy comes out and try and stands in front of the car 413 00:33:19.960 --> 00:33:22.839 and tries to either he's got some kind of a weapon at him, and 414 00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:27.480 they run him down and he ends up hitting the windshield and falling off it. 415 00:33:27.640 --> 00:33:30.720 My parents just like wow, he kind of gasping over the over the 416 00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:35.640 violence of that, and I was like wow. So Bonne and Clyde, 417 00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:37.000 I saw Bonne and Clyde, I saw in the heat of the night. 418 00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:44.000 Um, guess who's coming to dinner to serve with love? Pattent with my 419 00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:46.279 dad Planet of the Apes. Then my dad and I started going and seeing 420 00:33:46.319 --> 00:33:51.039 me Okay, some of these an original, h I mean, my mom 421 00:33:51.160 --> 00:33:52.480 stayed at home for some reason. I don't think she wanted to see Patton, 422 00:33:52.599 --> 00:33:55.559 but my dad did and I saw Planet of the Apes with him, 423 00:33:55.599 --> 00:34:02.720 and um, these now, these are the films that I actually hearkened to 424 00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:07.400 my and to my students nowadays too in teaching, because I think these were 425 00:34:07.599 --> 00:34:14.559 This was a fantastic age of American filmmaking. It was really from that from 426 00:34:14.559 --> 00:34:21.559 about sixty sixty six to about seventy six, that ten year period produced just 427 00:34:21.800 --> 00:34:27.320 astonishingly great American films and made by the studios, made by the studio at 428 00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:32.679 the time. Yeah, and and ultimately what killed it, of course was 429 00:34:32.840 --> 00:34:37.679 Jaws, right and the block you know and Blockbuster. From that point on, 430 00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:42.679 it changed everything and how the studios started doing things films, and again, 431 00:34:42.920 --> 00:34:45.360 not not to take away from the you know, the Spielberg's of the 432 00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:49.480 World and the in the in the geeks, you know, the film school 433 00:34:49.480 --> 00:34:52.239 geeks, which who basically started running the business at that point, which was 434 00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:58.079 great, but um, you know, prior to that, we still had 435 00:34:58.559 --> 00:35:05.360 The Godfathers and The Conversation and Chinatown and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest and 436 00:35:06.039 --> 00:35:09.440 Five Easy Pieces and the last detail of hal Ashby's Harold and mod you know, 437 00:35:09.559 --> 00:35:13.719 making these movies, these kinds of movies, and there was just nothing 438 00:35:13.840 --> 00:35:16.719 like it, right these so a little big man, you know, Um, 439 00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:22.519 you know these are these are films that I think still really uh resonate 440 00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:27.719 today hugely. Um in the studios have sort of lost sight of that, 441 00:35:28.039 --> 00:35:31.800 you know, because they were they were really socially conscious, uh conscious in 442 00:35:31.880 --> 00:35:36.440 a lot of ways. Um, they pushed the envelope, you know. 443 00:35:36.920 --> 00:35:40.840 Um, the subject matter was truly adult, the notion of of of like 444 00:35:42.079 --> 00:35:50.679 uh catering to demographics the pubescent a boy yeah, and action figures and all 445 00:35:50.800 --> 00:35:53.159 that unheard of no way, right, no, you just you know you 446 00:35:53.280 --> 00:35:57.920 didn't do that. It was still the days where you had people like Robert 447 00:35:57.920 --> 00:36:06.119 Evans, who was running you know, Paramount apparently in between his yeah that 448 00:36:06.599 --> 00:36:10.639 document, you know, he was uh he still was somebody who had gut 449 00:36:10.719 --> 00:36:15.400 instincts, you know, and could do things that um and in green lit 450 00:36:15.559 --> 00:36:21.000 stuff that got you know that will never see they haven't seen stuff like that. 451 00:36:21.199 --> 00:36:22.760 You can. The only way to find it now is, you know, 452 00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:28.360 in the independent realms. What do you think about there's this sort of 453 00:36:28.480 --> 00:36:31.440 a article I read a couple of years ago about how like HBO and Showed 454 00:36:31.480 --> 00:36:37.719 Time, all these the cable network or pay per view and the cable channels 455 00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:45.320 are now providing that sort of fix for adult drama. That um, where 456 00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:52.760 the movies, theatrical movies have just becoming such tent pole spectacles either of you 457 00:36:52.880 --> 00:36:57.599 know, um, the sci fi genre or whatever it is, or then 458 00:36:58.400 --> 00:37:01.400 or comedies that are you know, the gross out are are it? It? 459 00:37:02.159 --> 00:37:07.360 Whatno comedies? When you you have a little sprinkle of independence independent films, 460 00:37:07.440 --> 00:37:10.400 but the canvas of what's going on in the television spectrum right now, 461 00:37:10.480 --> 00:37:14.440 where you have long form where you can develop a character and a law, 462 00:37:14.639 --> 00:37:19.280 you know, a much slower pace and the more in depth is why you're 463 00:37:19.280 --> 00:37:22.960 seeing like the success of like the Sopranos and and all these things. So 464 00:37:23.119 --> 00:37:28.320 I don't know whether or not that sort of fulfilled the niche or the need 465 00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:32.480 that once was supplied during the late sixties mid sixties in the seventies for what 466 00:37:32.599 --> 00:37:36.719 the studios are supplying. You know what I mean Now it's just got fragmented. 467 00:37:36.920 --> 00:37:40.519 I don't know, that's sort of a yeah. I mean nowadays everything 468 00:37:40.559 --> 00:37:44.639 has gotten fragmented. It's it's really broken down. I mean we once we 469 00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:50.079 entered the digital age, right, everything became fragmented. And that's what digitizing 470 00:37:50.239 --> 00:37:53.679 analog does. You know, it breaks things down into these little bit into 471 00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:57.880 these little bits. You know this whether it's a sound bite or it's a 472 00:37:58.719 --> 00:38:02.199 you know, it's a bit of information. Um, and that sort of 473 00:38:02.280 --> 00:38:08.079 its job in in one way. So we we we've but we've lost a 474 00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:13.519 lot, you know in the in that at the same time. Um, 475 00:38:13.840 --> 00:38:16.519 you know, it's just it's just changed. These are This is part of 476 00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:22.519 a larger conversation that we'll get into here that the benefits and the curses of 477 00:38:22.760 --> 00:38:28.760 the digital the digital world now in digital culture. But uh um yeah, 478 00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:31.400 I and answer to your question, I would say yes, indeed, HBO, 479 00:38:31.960 --> 00:38:37.599 Showtime, AMC, running Madmen and stuff. They are feeling a niche 480 00:38:37.719 --> 00:38:44.599 now where so many of us have a thirst for those great adult dramas. 481 00:38:44.880 --> 00:38:52.159 Right, you know that that deal with touchy material um um. Not. 482 00:38:52.400 --> 00:38:57.599 So it's not necessarily high concept material, but it's really important material, um. 483 00:38:58.320 --> 00:39:01.360 You know. I mean, for example, it recently doing the they 484 00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:06.760 did the the you Don't Know Jack, you know, the Jack Cavorkian story. 485 00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:09.519 I knew nothing really about Cavorcian other than just seeing the headlines always about 486 00:39:09.559 --> 00:39:13.559 them from that. But you know, Pacino really owned that role, and 487 00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:15.480 Barry Levinson, you know, came in and directed it and it was a 488 00:39:15.599 --> 00:39:20.719 really it was a really compelling piece of piece of work. But there was 489 00:39:20.840 --> 00:39:23.239 no way a studio would make that wake that movie. It would have it 490 00:39:23.360 --> 00:39:27.880 have to be HBO. And of course HBO loves to flaunt the fact that 491 00:39:28.039 --> 00:39:32.760 only HBO can do it, you know. And so so I think it's 492 00:39:32.840 --> 00:39:37.360 great, um, But you know, again, HBO is part of a 493 00:39:37.559 --> 00:39:51.159 larger conglomerate mega monster that they too have to answer to someone. Uh if 494 00:39:51.280 --> 00:39:53.679 not, they're in not only their ratings, but you know, it's a 495 00:39:53.760 --> 00:40:02.800 corporation. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor and now back 496 00:40:02.840 --> 00:40:09.719 to the show. And so, you know, to find truly independent the 497 00:40:10.159 --> 00:40:15.480 stuff, you might have to even go further out into the margins then. 498 00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:20.519 But comparatively still to the mains, the main studios and the three major networks 499 00:40:20.559 --> 00:40:28.199 that we're used to. It's pretty still pretty very controversial and exciting stuff they 500 00:40:28.239 --> 00:40:30.360 do. So we'll we get back to. Do you remember like the first 501 00:40:30.360 --> 00:40:36.280 time you read a finished script that got you like turned on, like well 502 00:40:36.320 --> 00:40:44.000 I can do this. Well I don't necessarily recall reading a script and going 503 00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:49.199 daga over it. I recall seeing movies and going just like, oh crap, 504 00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:52.800 that's what I want to write. That's you know, and and that 505 00:40:52.280 --> 00:40:55.440 that's what I want to do. Um. So we have to remember, 506 00:40:55.599 --> 00:41:00.039 you know, as a screenplay is a is is only stepping stone to the 507 00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:05.880 final the final piece of art. You know that it is. And it's 508 00:41:05.960 --> 00:41:09.679 hard, it's hard to admit that as writers, but we do have to 509 00:41:09.719 --> 00:41:15.639 remind ourselves, if you're a screenwriter, that it's a it's a way station 510 00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:20.800 to the ultimate, the final product, the ultimate vision. Right. Okay, 511 00:41:21.320 --> 00:41:24.679 So so again in you know, I would look at a script and 512 00:41:24.679 --> 00:41:29.199 I was like, okay, all right, that's that's okay. But it's 513 00:41:29.239 --> 00:41:34.800 the movie that really inspired me. And it's still the movies that really inspire 514 00:41:34.880 --> 00:41:42.480 me now, um um, I don't get overly excited about reading scripts per 515 00:41:42.559 --> 00:41:45.159 se. Um. You know, I have to. I just I want 516 00:41:45.159 --> 00:41:52.599 to see the movie so so in so great movies make me want to write 517 00:41:52.920 --> 00:41:57.559 great scripts. And but it's always interesting and instructive to look at the scripts 518 00:41:57.639 --> 00:42:02.880 that have become great movies and to see that they that they are not perfect, 519 00:42:04.599 --> 00:42:08.840 um that sometimes they're far from it. Um. For example, Uh, 520 00:42:12.159 --> 00:42:15.599 well, whenever you you let's say you go to a bookstore and you'll 521 00:42:15.639 --> 00:42:21.679 find a the screenplay of a certain movie right there that's been published. Now, 522 00:42:22.480 --> 00:42:27.599 it's usually the the the shooting script that they'll um publish, you know, 523 00:42:27.679 --> 00:42:30.960 and so they'll have scene numbers and everything like that. That's anytime there 524 00:42:30.199 --> 00:42:32.960 are scene numbers on there, you know, that's a very late draft. 525 00:42:34.119 --> 00:42:37.280 It's something that they probably you know, it was the shooting draft or close 526 00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:40.480 to it, if they were numbering scenes. Um. Years ago, Frank 527 00:42:40.599 --> 00:42:47.000 Drabon, who wrote and directed The Shawshank Redemption, published a version of Shawshank 528 00:42:47.840 --> 00:42:52.199 that was not the shooting draft. It was a book that I think included 529 00:42:52.239 --> 00:42:55.760 the early draft of the script and then uh, and then the shooting draft 530 00:42:55.840 --> 00:42:59.039 something like that. And I'm mad at myself, right I never picked that 531 00:42:59.199 --> 00:43:02.519 up, and I remember thumbing through it, but Frank had the courage to 532 00:43:04.480 --> 00:43:08.599 to go ahead and print an earlier draft of it. And the thing was 533 00:43:08.639 --> 00:43:13.440 a mess. It was all there was a full of stracouts and crossed out 534 00:43:13.519 --> 00:43:15.519 stuff and notes in the margins and things like that. And that's what a 535 00:43:15.599 --> 00:43:21.840 real script looks like, right, you know. So beware to anyone out 536 00:43:21.880 --> 00:43:25.159 there who's considering writing scripts and they think that that has to be all perfect. 537 00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:31.039 That's just not the case. You know, a screenplay is it cannot 538 00:43:31.119 --> 00:43:36.599 be chiseled in stone. It really can't. Um it has. It is 539 00:43:36.639 --> 00:43:40.599 a living, breathing entity, and it will ebb and flow. It will 540 00:43:40.679 --> 00:43:45.760 inhale, it will exhale, It will do things you don't expect. Sometimes 541 00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:52.440 you have to make alterations due to weather, to cranky actors, to the 542 00:43:52.519 --> 00:43:58.440 whims of a studio or a star or director or whatever, for good or 543 00:43:58.519 --> 00:44:00.880 for worse or whatever. These are. These are just the things that It's 544 00:44:01.280 --> 00:44:06.760 constantly in a state of flux and will be until the film is shot, 545 00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:09.880 edited, and screen before paying audience. You know. That's you know, 546 00:44:10.119 --> 00:44:13.360 and that and that's the way it is, and you have to understand that, 547 00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:17.119 so you can't be overly precious with it, you know, and just 548 00:44:17.280 --> 00:44:21.199 think. I mean, if you're starting out and you're trying to write a 549 00:44:22.159 --> 00:44:25.079 great writing sample, of course you want to make it as good as you 550 00:44:25.119 --> 00:44:29.400 can possibly be, because you want to get your best foot forward. You 551 00:44:29.599 --> 00:44:35.679 want to show people what you're capable of. But once you are working and 552 00:44:36.039 --> 00:44:38.559 or in that business, you have to know you have to suck it up, 553 00:44:38.639 --> 00:44:44.000 man, and just know that this thing is going to get mangled and 554 00:44:44.679 --> 00:44:51.039 trundled under by the Hollywood machine sometimes. Um, and even in the independent 555 00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:54.559 realms, it doesn't matter because there was still things are going to be constantly 556 00:44:54.639 --> 00:45:00.079 changing because the universe is just throwing you change ups all the time. Know. 557 00:45:00.519 --> 00:45:04.480 Okay, it's raining. We're supposed to shoot a sunny a scene under 558 00:45:04.559 --> 00:45:08.840 sun today in blazing heat. Um, okay, the bar is more crowded 559 00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:15.719 than than we expected to have our you know the scene. Yeah, I 560 00:45:15.800 --> 00:45:17.639 talk, you know, I mean as these are right mics, you know, 561 00:45:17.960 --> 00:45:21.840 I mean, these are things where you just constantly you have to think 562 00:45:21.880 --> 00:45:24.000 on your feet and you have to be sort of flexible in terms of so 563 00:45:24.119 --> 00:45:30.400 as storytellers too, you have to have the acuity of mind and the flexibility 564 00:45:30.519 --> 00:45:32.280 to say, Okay, that doesn't work, I can switch this, I 565 00:45:32.320 --> 00:45:35.400 can do it here, and I'm like, shuffle this around and will make 566 00:45:35.440 --> 00:45:40.199 that work, and we'll we'll we'll fit it for the occasion when you know, 567 00:45:40.320 --> 00:45:45.480 right, do you feel like sometimes I've heard the expression or heard things 568 00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:51.840 where sometimes writers discover the story like it's sitting up there in a cloud of 569 00:45:52.480 --> 00:45:57.480 the years or of moments of inspiration that are just sort of permeating, where 570 00:45:57.960 --> 00:46:01.199 they start picking it up, like it just starts trickling down and they start, 571 00:46:01.800 --> 00:46:05.639 you know, like almost invisible ink, like it starts revealing itself, 572 00:46:05.719 --> 00:46:09.079 the story and the shape that even though your your intentions might not have been 573 00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:13.119 there originally, but as you as it, like you said, ebbs and 574 00:46:13.199 --> 00:46:15.880 flows and evolves, you're discovering it. And it's almost as you just had 575 00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:21.920 to be in the right sort of mental space or capacity to grab hold of 576 00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:27.119 it and and and sort of let it like as I yeah, let it 577 00:46:27.199 --> 00:46:30.440 evolve. Yeah, And I don't know if um oh yeah, oh this 578 00:46:30.599 --> 00:46:34.920 is good. Yeah, I'm good, this is good. Stop. So 579 00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:38.880 I was wondering if um so like when you're so you're in college. You 580 00:46:39.079 --> 00:46:44.320 were taking the writing the screenwriting class, I guess, and getting feedback from 581 00:46:44.360 --> 00:46:49.719 your professors. UM, do you remember like sort of the first permeation of 582 00:46:49.880 --> 00:46:52.760 like the the germ of the idea for your first full length story that you 583 00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:55.000 were like, you know what, this would make it, this would make 584 00:46:55.000 --> 00:46:59.199 a good movie. And I think, I gotta you know you've heard writers 585 00:46:59.320 --> 00:47:00.960 or that with that term. I gotta beat on it. I gotta beat 586 00:47:01.000 --> 00:47:06.679 on it. Yeah, well, yeah, there's you bring up a couple 587 00:47:06.719 --> 00:47:10.880 of points, but just specifically to to me. UM. As I mentioned 588 00:47:10.920 --> 00:47:15.559 before, when I was at UCLA, I wrote three scripts that were completely 589 00:47:15.800 --> 00:47:19.039 uncommercial. They were just they were bad, you know. I wrote a 590 00:47:19.360 --> 00:47:23.239 you know, sprawling period piece and a couple of other just not not good, 591 00:47:23.719 --> 00:47:28.440 you know, pieces of work. UM. And then I graduated, 592 00:47:29.360 --> 00:47:36.519 and I knew that I had to um in order to get somewhere, you 593 00:47:36.599 --> 00:47:37.880 know, to get a get ahead in the business, I had to make 594 00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:43.039 a conscious effort to write something commercial, you know, just to get on 595 00:47:43.119 --> 00:47:45.760 the map. Right. I can be artful and and and write artie movies 596 00:47:45.960 --> 00:47:49.480 later on, you know, but I really need to get it on the 597 00:47:49.760 --> 00:47:52.719 get on the map first, and get get try to make a living because 598 00:47:52.760 --> 00:47:55.639 at that point I was I was working in the mail room of the Academy 599 00:47:55.639 --> 00:48:00.320 Emotion, Pictures, Arts and Sciences, and I and I, you know, 600 00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:04.760 I just which was a great job actually, but because I allowed me 601 00:48:04.800 --> 00:48:08.039 a lot of time to write during the day. But yeah, I had 602 00:48:08.119 --> 00:48:14.079 to. I couldn't stay there for the rest of my life. So so 603 00:48:14.320 --> 00:48:17.400 I said, okay, I'm going to write something commercial and and write something 604 00:48:17.519 --> 00:48:22.159 that could actually get made, you know, for a relatively low sum of 605 00:48:22.199 --> 00:48:27.199 money. So at that time, which that translated to write a horror film. 606 00:48:27.920 --> 00:48:30.280 Okay, So then well, okay, how do you write a horror 607 00:48:30.320 --> 00:48:35.199 film? Or even at that time, it's like, oh god, everything's 608 00:48:35.239 --> 00:48:42.719 been done already. So I was really looking to do something different. Um, 609 00:48:42.880 --> 00:48:47.320 And so what I wrote. I wrote a script in that summer called 610 00:48:47.400 --> 00:48:52.480 Slaughter Alley, which was about a haunted highway or haunted a stretch of road, 611 00:48:52.559 --> 00:48:55.719 a rural road that was haunted by the ghost of a hot rodd who 612 00:48:55.760 --> 00:49:00.920 had been killed on it back in nineteen sixty two. So he races up 613 00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:04.519 and down it in the middle of the night, UM in his fifty seven 614 00:49:04.639 --> 00:49:07.280 Chevy bell Air, you know, running people off the road and claiming souls. 615 00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:13.320 And as you're explaining this, I can completely hear the twiny guitar right 616 00:49:13.360 --> 00:49:15.000 now. Oh yeah, oh it was. I mean, oh that's the 617 00:49:15.199 --> 00:49:19.480 link Ray, you know, the Cramps. I mean it was very music 618 00:49:19.599 --> 00:49:22.559 inspired in that sense because it, you know, just like those great big 619 00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:29.000 Detroit steel iconic cars you know from the you know, from the late fifties 620 00:49:29.039 --> 00:49:32.920 and sixties, all the muscle car era and stuff. Um you you know, 621 00:49:34.079 --> 00:49:37.039 you hear the that that big guitar sound as well the Ventures and you 622 00:49:37.119 --> 00:49:42.719 know all the Eddie Cochrane and all these these the rockabilly sound and stuff. 623 00:49:43.000 --> 00:49:50.480 Um is Eddie repels Eddie? Um but did Rebel Rouser or yeah, but 624 00:49:51.159 --> 00:49:52.960 Eddie something. But anyway, almost like a more of a punk version of 625 00:49:53.079 --> 00:49:58.800 that. Well, we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, 626 00:50:01.440 --> 00:50:07.920 and now back to the show. What was interesting simultaneous with this for me 627 00:50:07.239 --> 00:50:10.400 was that I had I was in LA I was staying in LA after he 628 00:50:10.440 --> 00:50:15.239 graduated and was really caught up in the music scene in Los Angeles at that 629 00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:22.519 point, which was getting swept um with the real, real kind of I 630 00:50:22.559 --> 00:50:25.079 don't know what to call it, a renaissance of music. But it was 631 00:50:25.239 --> 00:50:28.559 it was the punk rock thing that was at the core of it, and 632 00:50:28.679 --> 00:50:34.119 the hardcore specifically was taking over and really having a profound influence on everything. 633 00:50:34.199 --> 00:50:37.760 It was basically taking a flamethrower to everything right um and just burning it down. 634 00:50:37.920 --> 00:50:43.360 So you had and that was led by Black Flag and the descendants and 635 00:50:45.800 --> 00:50:49.440 irrelevant today Oh sure, sure. I mean the Dead Kennedy's up in San 636 00:50:49.480 --> 00:50:54.239 Francisco, and you know there was in Social d down in Orange County and 637 00:50:54.360 --> 00:51:00.440 stuff. So yeah, um, and and to me it had a huge 638 00:51:00.559 --> 00:51:07.039 influence on me on a number of levels. Specifically, you know, just 639 00:51:07.199 --> 00:51:10.920 creatively how you attack things, um and they strip it down. There was 640 00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:15.280 no pretension. You just went out and you did it and you made it 641 00:51:15.480 --> 00:51:19.599 work, and you did it with passion and really with an attitude, and 642 00:51:20.719 --> 00:51:28.159 there was just something elementally bitching about it fly and oh man, it just 643 00:51:28.519 --> 00:51:32.239 was incredible. So I was witnessing a lot of this, and then at 644 00:51:32.239 --> 00:51:37.719 the same time with the hardcore stuff, there was the sort of the art 645 00:51:37.840 --> 00:51:45.440 damaged bands that were doing things like this. There are bands like Savage Republic 646 00:51:45.559 --> 00:51:52.760 and the Fibonacci's in um Wall of Voodoo even that were heavily influenced by film 647 00:51:52.360 --> 00:51:55.320 right, and so they were doing a lot of like soundtrack stuff. Wall 648 00:51:55.360 --> 00:52:01.280 of Voodoo used to do a medley of Sergio Lee any movies a soundtrack, 649 00:52:01.400 --> 00:52:04.559 so you know, the good and bad and the ugly and hang them high. 650 00:52:04.679 --> 00:52:07.320 They would they would do this in concert and it was just like wow. 651 00:52:07.440 --> 00:52:09.760 And that had that big twangy guitar and it was just like wow, 652 00:52:09.800 --> 00:52:14.519 this is this is really really stuff. Um, speaking of what while I 653 00:52:14.719 --> 00:52:21.639 wud yeah you um the lead the frontman for Yeah stand Ridgeway? Yeah n 654 00:52:21.880 --> 00:52:25.239 Did you become friends with him working on a project. Yeah, Well just 655 00:52:25.320 --> 00:52:31.039 a quick aside there. I was, Um, after I wrote Slough a 656 00:52:31.119 --> 00:52:37.679 Rally, I wanted to write a murder mystery and what I was doing. 657 00:52:38.199 --> 00:52:43.519 My my notion for it was to have it was a murder mystery that was 658 00:52:43.559 --> 00:52:49.199 set in the punk rock underground of LA and it was about a hardcore kid 659 00:52:49.559 --> 00:52:54.400 who was accused of killing someone and who had been apprehended. And then his 660 00:52:54.559 --> 00:53:00.679 public defender was like a like a hippie liberal middle liberal hippie who had to 661 00:53:00.079 --> 00:53:02.800 you know, defend this kid, and they were I was very interested in 662 00:53:02.920 --> 00:53:08.519 just the opposing sensibilities kind of thing, you know. And so I started 663 00:53:08.599 --> 00:53:15.000 doing all this um uh quote unquote research you know, in the in the 664 00:53:15.159 --> 00:53:20.320 music scene at the time, and going to I'll see all these different shows 665 00:53:20.840 --> 00:53:24.159 and and I made contact with the number of bands. I just reached out 666 00:53:24.239 --> 00:53:28.239 to them and one time or another and say, hey, could I'm doing 667 00:53:28.320 --> 00:53:30.159 this, would you mind if I come to a rehearsal and see what you 668 00:53:30.239 --> 00:53:35.280 guys do? And and everybody was really cool, you know. The Minutemen 669 00:53:35.440 --> 00:53:39.599 was one of those bands, and and uh and stuff, and so um 670 00:53:40.840 --> 00:53:45.440 the script didn't pan out. I just it just never quite got over the 671 00:53:45.559 --> 00:53:51.360 hump for it. Um. But I made all these contacts with all these 672 00:53:51.440 --> 00:53:54.679 bands and very very good friends, and so that's that's what led them to 673 00:53:54.920 --> 00:54:00.039 getting doing some music videos for them and whatever. One of the band and 674 00:54:00.159 --> 00:54:01.760 said, I really that were very welcoming to me was a band called the 675 00:54:01.840 --> 00:54:07.199 Fibonaccis. And the Fibonaccis had artie party and ready to party, as the 676 00:54:07.360 --> 00:54:13.039 La Weekly describe them, The Fibonaccis were open for Wallavoodoo at one time, 677 00:54:13.119 --> 00:54:15.199 and they knew Stan Ridgeway very much. And so one time I was at 678 00:54:15.320 --> 00:54:22.360 Club Lingerie and I forget who was playing, but it wasn't The Fibbs, 679 00:54:22.480 --> 00:54:28.400 but I was with the keyboardists of the Fibbs, John Dentino and Stan. 680 00:54:28.519 --> 00:54:31.079 Ridgeway and his wife came in and I said, oh god, you know 681 00:54:31.840 --> 00:54:35.320 John, can you introduce me to Stan? I said, I'm a big 682 00:54:35.360 --> 00:54:37.440 fan and I'd really loved the first time I saw them on stage. I 683 00:54:37.599 --> 00:54:42.000 was just like, oh wow, these guys just to completely especially Stan, 684 00:54:42.199 --> 00:54:47.920 just captured a lot of how that sort of the collectic approach to every anything 685 00:54:47.960 --> 00:54:52.280 and everything. He said sure. So I met Stan and we talked and 686 00:54:52.280 --> 00:54:54.639 I told him I, you know, Wall of Voodoo was actually a big 687 00:54:54.679 --> 00:54:58.360 influencing writing slaughter rally for me. And he said, oh, send me 688 00:54:58.440 --> 00:55:00.960 the script. I'd love to I allowed to read it, and I said 689 00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:06.760 okay, So I did, and a couple of weeks later I got a 690 00:55:06.840 --> 00:55:08.760 postcard. He actually mailed me a postcard and said, I read your script. 691 00:55:08.800 --> 00:55:12.599 I really like it. I'm going to call you in a couple of 692 00:55:12.679 --> 00:55:20.559 days with a plan. Stan is always scheming. He's always got something working 693 00:55:20.679 --> 00:55:27.519 up with a plan. But basically that started a friendship that still continues today. 694 00:55:28.880 --> 00:55:37.079 And ironically his manager eventually manager when he went solo, was my wife's 695 00:55:37.199 --> 00:55:44.360 older brother. Um but I even before I started dating her. Yeah, 696 00:55:44.400 --> 00:55:49.199 I knew Chris, but I didn't know he was related to Kate when we 697 00:55:49.880 --> 00:55:52.519 first met. It was just really so stan Stan and Chris. They both 698 00:55:52.599 --> 00:55:58.199 argue they like to take credit for introducing us, but it sounds like it 699 00:55:58.280 --> 00:56:00.480 was just already in there. It was already in the words, it was 700 00:56:00.519 --> 00:56:06.880 a pretty yeah yeah, but um uh, it was going to add. 701 00:56:07.239 --> 00:56:09.320 One of the things that intrigued me about the music scene at that time, 702 00:56:10.039 --> 00:56:15.199 especially in the rockabilly circle that you would see is that when the Blasters were 703 00:56:15.280 --> 00:56:19.440 playing, and there were a number yeah, yeah, there were a number 704 00:56:19.519 --> 00:56:22.960 of bands that were you know, there was the Stray Cats that were the 705 00:56:22.079 --> 00:56:27.519 real big commercial gap, but the Blasters were the big the ones in the 706 00:56:27.679 --> 00:56:30.320 LA scene, but there were there were some other Los Lobos was really kind 707 00:56:30.360 --> 00:56:36.159 of rockabilly influencing on that. But anyway, they would bring out these these 708 00:56:36.280 --> 00:56:40.159 crowds that you would see them come up and they pull up and there their 709 00:56:40.280 --> 00:56:44.559 vintage cars and these guys would come out when their pompadours and their and their 710 00:56:44.679 --> 00:56:47.920 jeans and t shirt and their their cuffed jeans and their cowboy boots or whatever, 711 00:56:49.000 --> 00:56:52.480 and the and then they would have their their girlfriends and the poodle skirts 712 00:56:52.480 --> 00:56:55.679 and them and uh, the Betty Page kind of you know, a hair 713 00:56:55.920 --> 00:57:04.000 and and all of because it's that scene is like it's a greaser scene by 714 00:57:04.000 --> 00:57:07.039 like a full start. Like you said, it's it's not like it's not 715 00:57:07.159 --> 00:57:10.000 like a happy Day's cutie. It's it's a little bit the edgier. It 716 00:57:10.079 --> 00:57:14.199 was. Okay, pay with it now, it's like tattoos everywhere, right. 717 00:57:14.400 --> 00:57:16.480 Granted it was a little edgier then, but it still struck me. 718 00:57:16.559 --> 00:57:22.199 I was still rather amused by it because to me, it they still struck 719 00:57:22.320 --> 00:57:24.519 me. It was kind of like the posers, you know, because there 720 00:57:24.599 --> 00:57:30.679 had been the real the real guys. That's me, thank you. Okay, 721 00:57:30.719 --> 00:57:32.079 hey we're back. We just take a little dinner break. But listen, 722 00:57:32.320 --> 00:57:36.360 we were talking about slaughter Alley right, which right by the way, 723 00:57:36.800 --> 00:57:39.639 So it was like one of your first scripts, yes, my first attempt 724 00:57:39.679 --> 00:57:43.840 to write something commercial. Yes, but that story is dear to your heart 725 00:57:43.920 --> 00:57:47.960 because we've been working on a little bit launching your site slaughter Alley dot com. 726 00:57:49.360 --> 00:57:52.880 Correct now, just let you know. I'm going to take another crack 727 00:57:52.960 --> 00:57:57.440 at that map. I think because I've learned since since we met last year, 728 00:57:57.960 --> 00:58:00.679 I've learned so much about like launch, how to you know, make 729 00:58:00.760 --> 00:58:04.800 some websites, how to do just my job. Recently, I've just been 730 00:58:04.840 --> 00:58:07.840 working in flash lately, so like all this other stuff, I'm like, 731 00:58:07.119 --> 00:58:09.559 oh my gosh, I think I can go back and like fix what I 732 00:58:09.760 --> 00:58:13.679 kind of oh I tend to do. But anyway, that's in the back 733 00:58:13.760 --> 00:58:15.760 burner. But one of these days the things that get cleared up, I 734 00:58:15.840 --> 00:58:20.480 think I have a way that I can make that thing launch. So that's 735 00:58:20.519 --> 00:58:22.960 great. But again that's just my interests of like learning stuff like that, 736 00:58:23.119 --> 00:58:27.719 and it each year I get more and more knowledged and it's like, oh 737 00:58:27.760 --> 00:58:30.280 wait, I can apply this now. Sure. Sure. Anyway, so 738 00:58:30.559 --> 00:58:35.760 you write Sladder Alley and you have two other ones now. During the process 739 00:58:35.800 --> 00:58:39.400 of like writing these scripts, and you were trying to make it something commercially 740 00:58:40.360 --> 00:58:45.280 viable, Um, was there any moments in there where you feel like, 741 00:58:46.079 --> 00:58:49.440 I don't know, like you felt your groove, Like I know that sometimes 742 00:58:49.480 --> 00:58:52.639 I write stuff like it's a lot of times it's painful, but sometimes you 743 00:58:52.719 --> 00:58:55.960 get these magic moments where you just feel like when it's completed or something, 744 00:58:57.119 --> 00:59:01.119 or like wow, you know I did it or I could see this or 745 00:59:01.199 --> 00:59:07.960 something like that. Yeah. Um, Like what the question is, where 746 00:59:07.960 --> 00:59:10.280 do you find your enjoyment in the writing, because if you've done it so 747 00:59:10.440 --> 00:59:16.000 long, obviously there must be some grain of well. Slaughter Rally was was 748 00:59:16.119 --> 00:59:20.679 fun to write, and I've I've done multiple drafts of it over the years, 749 00:59:20.920 --> 00:59:23.800 and it looks like I'm going to be doing another one here, maybe 750 00:59:24.199 --> 00:59:29.159 very soon, um, because I've got some interest in it yet again. 751 00:59:30.119 --> 00:59:35.159 Um Um, it's the script that refuses to die. It Uh, It's 752 00:59:35.559 --> 00:59:37.599 this is what I was saying that you know, scripts are alive and breathing, 753 00:59:37.719 --> 00:59:42.920 and this is some kind of like a monster that just lurks in the 754 00:59:43.400 --> 00:59:47.800 primordial slime somewhere that every now and then somebody keeps coming back and coming back 755 00:59:47.840 --> 00:59:52.119 to it and saying that like the story of like, uh, Lawrence Kazan 756 00:59:52.400 --> 00:59:58.599 when is one of our early scripts, the Bodyguard and Costner. We'll be 757 00:59:58.760 --> 01:00:05.719 right back after a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show. 758 01:00:07.480 --> 01:00:09.760 You saw it in his shelf something like one of his early early skips 759 01:00:09.840 --> 01:00:12.719 and he said, I'll grab that, and they made that. But it 760 01:00:12.840 --> 01:00:15.880 was you know things, look those stories where they take they've just been around 761 01:00:15.960 --> 01:00:17.920 for so long. Yeah, you know, I mean, look, the 762 01:00:19.000 --> 01:00:24.119 lesson I've learned from it isn't that nothing is ever dead in Hollywood. It's 763 01:00:24.400 --> 01:00:30.559 just you put it in a drawer for a while and then you know, 764 01:00:30.840 --> 01:00:34.239 six months a year later, bring it back out to show it around again. 765 01:00:34.519 --> 01:00:37.480 Um, that's if it's a spec script. But right, well then 766 01:00:37.519 --> 01:00:43.440 again even that now it's like lead it into bled into the actual finished films. 767 01:00:43.480 --> 01:00:45.480 With what Lucas has done with his Star Wars films, Yeah, and 768 01:00:45.559 --> 01:00:51.039 it just read somewhere the new Blu Ray release. He added some more like 769 01:00:51.280 --> 01:00:54.920 dialogue to Darth Vader and returned the Jedi where he like screams no, like 770 01:00:55.119 --> 01:00:59.679 during the death scene of like the Emperors, and so fans are like again 771 01:00:59.840 --> 01:01:02.800 like what the hell are you doing? Wow? So anyway, so yeah, 772 01:01:02.920 --> 01:01:07.119 even in the film form, it has life that it freezes and sure, 773 01:01:07.519 --> 01:01:14.360 sure, yeah, and that's interesting now that it's come to that where 774 01:01:14.400 --> 01:01:20.280 it's so except easy and accessible to be able to get to make, you 775 01:01:20.360 --> 01:01:23.079 know, slight alterations, nip and tucks, here and there and all that. 776 01:01:23.199 --> 01:01:28.119 I mean, that's the that doesn't surprise me. It's it goes back 777 01:01:28.159 --> 01:01:32.360 to the I think it was as Ezra Pound who said, uh uh, 778 01:01:32.920 --> 01:01:37.239 you know, nothing is a poem is never never finished, it's abandoned. 779 01:01:37.840 --> 01:01:42.280 And uh so anythink that's apropos for any kind of art. You know, 780 01:01:42.440 --> 01:01:45.320 you just uh, including scripts. At some point, you just got to 781 01:01:45.360 --> 01:01:51.480 abandon it because it's it's never quite done, it will always be a work 782 01:01:51.519 --> 01:01:54.039 in progress. You've got to make a T shirt of that, like goes 783 01:01:54.079 --> 01:01:58.480 ready for like those writer conferences and stuff like that. I never thought of 784 01:01:58.519 --> 01:02:04.159 that. That's actually pretty good. You've seen these like cute like shirts like 785 01:02:04.280 --> 01:02:07.199 bustats dot com somewhere, really funny things. But anyway, yeah, I 786 01:02:07.280 --> 01:02:12.559 think that's a great great little say what what nothing has ever finished? Its 787 01:02:12.599 --> 01:02:15.480 abandoned on the it's just something like abandon it. So like this, you 788 01:02:15.559 --> 01:02:17.880 know, and they give like the little web you know, like a website 789 01:02:17.920 --> 01:02:22.880 in the back something to like T shirts that are specific to that market of 790 01:02:22.960 --> 01:02:25.719 writers. But yeah, people like we want to like walk by goes, 791 01:02:25.760 --> 01:02:29.880 what does that mean abandon it? Because then it strikes up our conversation like 792 01:02:29.960 --> 01:02:31.920 you just like, what the hell is that that term or that phrase? 793 01:02:32.440 --> 01:02:37.760 Yeah? So yeah, anyway, um well anyway, uh kind of back 794 01:02:37.800 --> 01:02:45.159 to the to the question, Um, Mike, is it the inspiration or 795 01:02:46.239 --> 01:02:50.679 working? And you have these moments of like where you just feel like you're 796 01:02:51.280 --> 01:02:52.079 like you're the ship, like you're like you know, I mean, like 797 01:02:52.119 --> 01:02:54.360 you feel like you're like, oh my gosh, I'm a genius. But 798 01:02:54.559 --> 01:03:00.440 or sometimes you know, well, I I think if you ever are thinking 799 01:03:00.480 --> 01:03:05.280 thoughts like that, you're really asking for it. You're doomed. You know. 800 01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:10.679 That's the day you really start worrying. I really think. I had 801 01:03:10.719 --> 01:03:16.360 the good fortune one time to meet David Lean, director of Lawrence of Arabia 802 01:03:16.440 --> 01:03:23.280 and stuff, and a friend of mine was assisting his restoration of Lawrence of 803 01:03:23.280 --> 01:03:29.280 Arabia and I was. She knew that I was a big fan, and 804 01:03:29.760 --> 01:03:34.519 she arranged for me to meet him at that and sneak in on a screening 805 01:03:34.599 --> 01:03:38.079 of it that Spielberg and a few other people were there, and so he 806 01:03:38.239 --> 01:03:43.119 came back and shook my hand there afterwards. But she told me later that 807 01:03:43.320 --> 01:03:46.760 he had told her this story about when he was directing Lawrence of Arabia and 808 01:03:47.679 --> 01:03:54.199 the day came for him to shoot the scene where very late in the movie, 809 01:03:54.280 --> 01:04:03.119 where Lawrence is leading the Arabs on the cutting a swath through the Turkish 810 01:04:03.199 --> 01:04:08.760 lines and heading straight towards Damascus, and then he has to make a tactical 811 01:04:08.880 --> 01:04:14.840 choice of either wipe out and slaughter this Turkish column that had just had raped 812 01:04:14.880 --> 01:04:18.559 and pillage to village, an Arabic village, or move on to Damascus in 813 01:04:18.679 --> 01:04:26.239 greater glory, and the smart tactical thing to do. But Lawrence opts succumbs 814 01:04:26.280 --> 01:04:29.800 to the thing, and where he goes and massacres the Turkish column right and 815 01:04:30.480 --> 01:04:34.440 sort of satiates his his his need for blood letting in a way. And 816 01:04:34.840 --> 01:04:41.679 and uh Lean told her that the day that they filmed that scene, he 817 01:04:42.800 --> 01:04:46.119 drove the limo came and got him at his hotel, and then they drove 818 01:04:46.440 --> 01:04:49.239 the hour and a half out to the to the location or wherever it was. 819 01:04:50.760 --> 01:04:56.800 Lean got out of the car and looked at, you know, the 820 01:04:57.280 --> 01:05:00.400 hundreds of extras, all in uniform and costume, you know, waiting waiting 821 01:05:00.480 --> 01:05:05.840 for his first command, you know, And he looked at all these people 822 01:05:06.280 --> 01:05:11.079 cast and crew were just looking at him, and he got struck with them 823 01:05:11.800 --> 01:05:17.000 with diarrhea just immediately had to jump back into the car and told the chauffeurs 824 01:05:17.000 --> 01:05:19.519 that just take me back to the hotel. Took him back to them the 825 01:05:19.679 --> 01:05:26.440 hotel, and he camped out in the bathroom for two or three hours, 826 01:05:26.519 --> 01:05:31.079 I guess or whatever. And then uh um, I finally got enough courage 827 01:05:31.159 --> 01:05:35.079 up to go back out to the scene and direct it. But he didn't. 828 01:05:35.880 --> 01:05:40.199 The point was, he didn't have any idea how to direct that scene. 829 01:05:40.400 --> 01:05:45.199 And he was so struck with fear and insecurity that you know, he 830 01:05:45.360 --> 01:05:48.239 was crapping in his pants. I mean, he just was literally, I 831 01:05:48.320 --> 01:05:53.159 mean, he just got struck with it. And so he said, he 832 01:05:53.239 --> 01:05:57.679 said to my friend Jude that you know, that just goes to show you 833 01:05:57.960 --> 01:06:01.519 it could hit anyone anytime. You know. It's just it's it's always when 834 01:06:01.559 --> 01:06:06.239 you're when you're when you're putting yourself out there, there's a there's a great 835 01:06:06.360 --> 01:06:12.559 risk that you're that you're taking you're overcoming a great amount of fear there, 836 01:06:12.920 --> 01:06:17.079 or or you you're embracing the fear, you're crossing over you're taking these big 837 01:06:17.239 --> 01:06:24.239 risks and stuff in so it takes great effort to do it. But he 838 01:06:24.320 --> 01:06:28.519 said, somebody like the implication was somebody like him who's got all these accolades 839 01:06:28.559 --> 01:06:30.519 and stuff like that. He said, sometimes they just don't know how to 840 01:06:30.639 --> 01:06:33.760 do it. You're scared. You're scared too, you know, I am, 841 01:06:33.920 --> 01:06:41.039 thank you, um and so so I always thought that was that, 842 01:06:41.239 --> 01:06:44.480 that was a great story. I felt very privileged to have heard that, 843 01:06:44.760 --> 01:06:50.599 you know, secondhand, you know, um uh and and and so anyway 844 01:06:50.639 --> 01:06:55.079 back to what we were talking about, if and if you know the times 845 01:06:55.119 --> 01:06:58.159 that where you're really starting to feel cocky and say, damn, I'm good 846 01:06:58.440 --> 01:07:02.639 right right um is uh, you know, that's where you could be into 847 01:07:02.639 --> 01:07:09.039 a little bit of trouble. My best I probably arguably my best writing is 848 01:07:09.159 --> 01:07:13.840 probably stuff that I was mortified that I wrote. You know that I was 849 01:07:13.920 --> 01:07:18.000 scared. I was scared really to pass on because I was afraid of the 850 01:07:18.119 --> 01:07:21.320 reaction it would get that people would just think, what are you thinking? 851 01:07:21.679 --> 01:07:26.320 Are you out of your mind? God's sakes, we're paying you all this 852 01:07:26.480 --> 01:07:30.239 money to write this, direc you know, you pretentious of a bit for 853 01:07:30.519 --> 01:07:36.440 you know whatever art damaged? You know, kind of geek um, you 854 01:07:36.519 --> 01:07:40.840 know all these all you know, all these thoughts run through your mind. 855 01:07:40.840 --> 01:07:44.679 I mean, it's just you know, racing, your mind races with a 856 01:07:44.719 --> 01:07:50.320 lot of irrational, irrational stuff sometimes. But um, I think that and 857 01:07:51.079 --> 01:07:58.840 again, fear and insecurity can paralyze you right when you're when you're working. 858 01:07:59.480 --> 01:08:03.159 But the key thing is to have enough of it that it keeps you on 859 01:08:03.400 --> 01:08:12.039 edge, and it keeps you vigilant and keeps you always um uh wanting to 860 01:08:12.119 --> 01:08:15.480 take a risk, you know enough, just enough to where you won't settle 861 01:08:15.639 --> 01:08:18.920 for the ordinary and the safe. But at the same time, you know 862 01:08:19.239 --> 01:08:25.199 it, you don't want you just want to push yourself just just enough, 863 01:08:25.359 --> 01:08:28.720 you know, just so to just keep yourself on edge with it, you 864 01:08:28.800 --> 01:08:30.880 know, don't settle for the low hanging fruit if you can't. Yeah, 865 01:08:31.000 --> 01:08:36.439 yeah, And that that is I think a really you know, a really 866 01:08:36.520 --> 01:08:41.680 valuable lesson when when you start feeling like you're dialing it in and all I 867 01:08:41.760 --> 01:08:44.520 can do this behind my back, you know, And then I think you're 868 01:08:44.600 --> 01:08:47.479 kind of losing something. You're losing a passion, you're losing um, you're 869 01:08:47.560 --> 01:08:56.279 losing the healthy fear of your stuff. I read something recently about um uh, 870 01:08:57.800 --> 01:09:00.600 it's it's it's in a book called The uh. I think it's in 871 01:09:00.680 --> 01:09:08.439 this book called The War of art Um that's written by a novelist and screenwriter. 872 01:09:08.960 --> 01:09:11.640 This the guy that wrote Bagger Vance. And don't ask me his name 873 01:09:11.640 --> 01:09:15.439 because I couldn't summon his name right now at the moment. But he was 874 01:09:15.560 --> 01:09:25.800 quoting, or were using, the anecdote of how how actors, especially famous 875 01:09:25.840 --> 01:09:30.760 actors, choose their roles, why they make the choices of and he noted 876 01:09:30.880 --> 01:09:39.439 that many actors respond to that question by saying, oh. He was citing 877 01:09:39.720 --> 01:09:44.279 on the actors studio, outside the actor's studio, and he said, invariably 878 01:09:44.399 --> 01:09:45.920 they get that answered that question, how do you choose the roles that you 879 01:09:46.239 --> 01:09:54.199 that you do and what prompts you? And invariably they answer it scared me. 880 01:09:55.279 --> 01:09:58.000 Yeah, you know, a good one, yeah, yeah, yeah, 881 01:09:58.239 --> 01:10:01.960 And I chose because it's scared me. We'll be right back after a 882 01:10:02.039 --> 01:10:12.720 word from our sponsor and now back to the show. So translation is that 883 01:10:13.800 --> 01:10:17.720 it was something I haven't done before. It was challenging, and I wanted 884 01:10:17.760 --> 01:10:20.880 to rise to the occasion. I wanted to meet that challenge, you know, 885 01:10:21.000 --> 01:10:25.159 I wanted to do something that I haven't done before, right right, 886 01:10:25.399 --> 01:10:29.920 you know, and go you know boldly go where no man has gone before, 887 01:10:30.119 --> 01:10:32.840 you know, with the be at the Starship Enterprise or your screenplay. 888 01:10:32.920 --> 01:10:38.359 You know. I was up and until three thirty last night working because I 889 01:10:38.600 --> 01:10:47.880 was scared of not being able to wrestle Flash the program. I'm trying to 890 01:10:47.960 --> 01:10:51.479 learn this program Flash, like I don't know it. I'm online, I'm 891 01:10:51.560 --> 01:10:57.520 learning as I'm going, and it's such a high learning curve, but it's 892 01:10:57.520 --> 01:11:00.600 still it was a challenge and like, I don't I don't feel necessarily tired 893 01:11:00.760 --> 01:11:06.039 because I was motivated all last night because this just sheer desire, like I've 894 01:11:06.079 --> 01:11:09.479 got to learn this, I've got to figure this out. How did you? 895 01:11:09.880 --> 01:11:12.479 How did they do this? How did they? And then just because 896 01:11:12.520 --> 01:11:15.600 that desire wanting to know, and then you and then getting to that place 897 01:11:15.720 --> 01:11:20.000 where you kind of break it, where just like you accomplish it where you 898 01:11:20.079 --> 01:11:24.560 started and where you end up. It's such a far journey, but you're 899 01:11:24.600 --> 01:11:28.039 like, wow, I did it. I was kind of scared jumping into 900 01:11:28.079 --> 01:11:30.319 because I didn't know how I was gonna get, you know, where where 901 01:11:30.359 --> 01:11:33.079 to start. But as you finished and when you found out you could actually 902 01:11:33.520 --> 01:11:39.920 do something or finish a task, that's always you know, satisfying. So 903 01:11:40.520 --> 01:11:43.479 I guess for me that's so now coming back to it's like you have this, 904 01:11:44.560 --> 01:11:48.439 um, you have three scripts that you've abandoned. Yes, yes, 905 01:11:48.840 --> 01:11:54.439 yes, and right yeah so consciously, so when was the first what was 906 01:11:54.479 --> 01:11:58.319 the first gig you had that m that was like where you got paid as 907 01:11:58.359 --> 01:12:00.600 a screenwriter? Well, um, actually I got I got paid to do 908 01:12:00.680 --> 01:12:04.359 a rewrite on slaughter Rally. So what what happened was I wrote it, 909 01:12:04.840 --> 01:12:10.840 um then that summer of eighty two I think it was, and then uh, 910 01:12:11.439 --> 01:12:14.319 I gave it to a friend of mine who had gone to film school 911 01:12:14.359 --> 01:12:17.720 with UM. It's actually former roommate of mine, Richard Green, who was 912 01:12:17.760 --> 01:12:23.640 now a very powerful agent at CAA. Actually, um, there you go, 913 01:12:24.279 --> 01:12:28.640 there you go. And Richard had at that time aspirations to be a 914 01:12:28.720 --> 01:12:34.359 producer, and so he was working um for a true producer, a real 915 01:12:34.920 --> 01:12:41.319 working producer, and as a guy named Bill Finnigan who made TV movies and 916 01:12:41.439 --> 01:12:45.119 such um as opposed to those you know who are in our Hollywood. There's 917 01:12:45.119 --> 01:12:48.399 a lot of producers. Yes, yes, yes, I think it's true 918 01:12:48.600 --> 01:12:54.439 working yes, yes, yeah for the same exactly the same. And you 919 01:12:54.479 --> 01:12:58.600 can apply that to writers and actors and all of that. Um. Um 920 01:12:59.439 --> 01:13:03.680 so I'm gonna order another pipe here when he comes back again, but I'm 921 01:13:03.720 --> 01:13:09.960 just keeping one eye on him. Um So, what happened was, um, 922 01:13:12.600 --> 01:13:15.560 can I get a no? No, okay, but no no, 923 01:13:15.640 --> 01:13:18.640 I actually I want to go for something a little redder? Yeah, and 924 01:13:18.680 --> 01:13:23.760 the color you you you had a nice poor you were tooken to someone there 925 01:13:24.119 --> 01:13:29.880 earlier the Nelson. Oh really, Oh it is an ipa. It's that 926 01:13:29.960 --> 01:13:32.079 red really wow. Wow, that's actually for something that's red that's going to 927 01:13:32.159 --> 01:13:36.520 be multi Yeah. Yeah, I would recommend getting the working Okay. Then 928 01:13:36.840 --> 01:13:41.920 oh that all the skull splitter. Okay, I've had it. I've I've 929 01:13:41.920 --> 01:13:44.680 had it in a body of don that in draft. Okay, oh you 930 01:13:44.720 --> 01:13:46.119 do, Okay, I don't want to go I want to get stick with 931 01:13:46.199 --> 01:13:50.920 the draft. Then do you have the thistle? Yeah? Yeah, they 932 01:13:51.199 --> 01:13:57.800 bring that, thank you? Actually some water. I just need to Um. 933 01:13:57.960 --> 01:14:00.359 So, Richard I gave the script or Richard because he said, let 934 01:14:00.399 --> 01:14:04.880 me let me take this to the producer I'm working for, Bill Finnigan, 935 01:14:05.119 --> 01:14:09.479 and um he said, I think you might like it. Because Richard read 936 01:14:09.520 --> 01:14:12.640 it and really liked it, and thought, Wow, it's just this is 937 01:14:12.680 --> 01:14:17.039 cool and so it's great. Um. So he took it to his boss 938 01:14:17.239 --> 01:14:24.680 and lo and behold, the boss loved it. They um optioned it from 939 01:14:24.760 --> 01:14:30.600 me, and then they like it was at first it's surreal. It's you're 940 01:14:30.640 --> 01:14:33.079 through the roof, you know, you're just uh, it's just an exciting, 941 01:14:33.399 --> 01:14:38.279 wonderful feeling and you could just feel like, wow, I could do 942 01:14:38.399 --> 01:14:42.359 this the rest of my life. Do you like it's all this is like 943 01:14:42.960 --> 01:14:47.640 a moment of thank you? Thanks? Is there like a moment of I 944 01:14:47.720 --> 01:14:51.520 don't know where all of a sudden, like your whole future is right in 945 01:14:51.600 --> 01:14:56.760 front of you. Oh you're like boom that instance like oh I'm I'm on 946 01:14:56.960 --> 01:15:00.920 my way and and all this stuff. Yeah yeah, you it up right 947 01:15:00.279 --> 01:15:04.199 real fast and just see it, you know like billboards on the on the 948 01:15:04.640 --> 01:15:11.800 on the freeway. Uh man, how is that? That's good? That's 949 01:15:11.840 --> 01:15:14.399 good? You want to try that? Yeah, I mean just gave a 950 01:15:14.479 --> 01:15:17.239 quick sip that like, um, very frothy. Yeah, it's a nice 951 01:15:17.279 --> 01:15:26.880 head on that so good beer. So so they optioned it, um and 952 01:15:27.000 --> 01:15:30.800 then they sat on it for like a year for one thing or another. 953 01:15:30.479 --> 01:15:33.439 Reality. Yeah, yeah, just it just it just took a while. 954 01:15:34.079 --> 01:15:42.399 And then um, I think it was that following summer they they called up 955 01:15:42.439 --> 01:15:44.680 and said, I think we're going to get some action on this. Now, 956 01:15:44.720 --> 01:15:47.760 we're gonna start rolling on it. And I think they renewed the option. 957 01:15:47.840 --> 01:15:50.239 They optioned it for one year, and I think they renewed the option. 958 01:15:50.479 --> 01:15:56.760 And then then what happened was they got some money and they asked me 959 01:15:56.840 --> 01:15:59.640 to do a rewrite on it, and they had started they were getting a 960 01:15:59.720 --> 01:16:08.119 direct and they had Judd Nelson and Alexandra paul Um cast. This was about 961 01:16:08.399 --> 01:16:13.520 eighty three eighty two. Jett Nelson with Jett Nelson. All right, okay, 962 01:16:13.720 --> 01:16:17.880 well we knew who Judd Nelson was. Breakfast Cub hadn't come out, 963 01:16:17.960 --> 01:16:21.840 The Breakfast Club hadn't come out yet. He had done um forget what he 964 01:16:21.880 --> 01:16:27.880 had done before that that garnered a fair amount of attention. So he was 965 01:16:28.039 --> 01:16:30.520 cool. He was a cool actor, right, We all like, oh, 966 01:16:30.640 --> 01:16:32.800 yeah, that's cool. Um, So what happened was I did the 967 01:16:32.840 --> 01:16:35.560 rewrite. I got like five thousand dollars to do a rewrite on it. 968 01:16:35.720 --> 01:16:38.960 Like, I remember, you have an agent at the time, did you 969 01:16:39.319 --> 01:16:42.399 well that? Okay, quick, quick, aside on that, there's a 970 01:16:42.399 --> 01:16:45.960 lot of different things that Slaughter Rally is instructional for those listening and in many 971 01:16:46.039 --> 01:16:51.199 different ways. Yeah, you got your Yeah. First of all, let 972 01:16:51.279 --> 01:16:56.760 me roll back. I've literally finished writing the end on slaughter Rally, the 973 01:16:56.880 --> 01:17:00.479 very first draft of it. UM and I took because I lived in Westwood 974 01:17:00.479 --> 01:17:02.720 at the time. I said, I'm gonna go take a walk into the 975 01:17:02.800 --> 01:17:05.800 village and uh, you know, get a cup of coffee or a beer 976 01:17:05.920 --> 01:17:10.840 or something like that. And I feel like yes. So I walked into 977 01:17:10.880 --> 01:17:15.039 Westwood Village, which at that time still had bookstores, and I remember going 978 01:17:15.159 --> 01:17:21.119 into um it was like Hunters Books that was there on Westwood Boulevard, and 979 01:17:21.199 --> 01:17:28.359 I walked in and prominently displayed on a case and the whole little setup as 980 01:17:28.399 --> 01:17:33.640 you walk in is Stephen King's Christine, which has had the cover of it 981 01:17:34.159 --> 01:17:40.560 was the car, the car, you know, and basically the grill of 982 01:17:41.439 --> 01:17:44.800 that. I think it was an old Chrysler. And I looked at that 983 01:17:45.039 --> 01:17:47.159 and I thought, oh, no, don't tell me, it's no, 984 01:17:47.560 --> 01:17:51.439 it can't be about like and it wasn't quite the same, but boy, 985 01:17:51.520 --> 01:17:56.119 it was close enough. It was like, Oh, I couldn't believe it. 986 01:17:56.760 --> 01:18:00.520 I couldn't believe it, So that that first that was less than number 987 01:18:00.560 --> 01:18:03.720 one, which is that you know, there are like you were talking about 988 01:18:03.760 --> 01:18:06.479 earlier, there are ideas up there in the cloud that you just sort of 989 01:18:06.520 --> 01:18:10.800 take. Well, if you don't act on the idea that you have, 990 01:18:11.399 --> 01:18:14.960 somebody else is going to act on it as well. Right, And one 991 01:18:15.000 --> 01:18:19.560 of my instructors that UCLA used to say that, look, ideas are literally 992 01:18:19.680 --> 01:18:26.000 out there floating around in the ether. It's not uncommon at all for someone 993 01:18:26.600 --> 01:18:30.159 or several people to latch onto the same idea at the same time. Right. 994 01:18:30.199 --> 01:18:33.000 And it's not a case of somebody ripping off someone else or anything. 995 01:18:33.399 --> 01:18:38.520 It's just sometimes you all and you can call it the collective unconscious, you 996 01:18:38.600 --> 01:18:41.720 can call it any synchronicity, you can call it any number of things. 997 01:18:42.279 --> 01:18:46.319 But it is a reality. It happens. So my testament as well. 998 01:18:46.479 --> 01:18:50.960 Yeah, okay, so my only advice in the front is that it will 999 01:18:51.079 --> 01:18:57.359 happen to you sooner or later, and act on your ideas. You get 1000 01:18:57.399 --> 01:19:00.600 an impulse, you get a creative impulse, then act on it right away, 1001 01:19:00.840 --> 01:19:02.239 you know, and if you can, you know, sometimes it's just 1002 01:19:02.319 --> 01:19:06.239 not possible and you know, and sometimes there's not quite enough of a of 1003 01:19:06.359 --> 01:19:15.399 an idea. Okay, So so that was that. Then, So anyway, 1004 01:19:15.720 --> 01:19:19.159 um, I did this. I did this rewrite on slaughter Alley. 1005 01:19:19.199 --> 01:19:21.640 They were on the fast track. They were going to head an into production, 1006 01:19:21.720 --> 01:19:26.840 Alexander Paul and Judd Nelson starring in it. I was doing this rewrite. 1007 01:19:26.880 --> 01:19:30.760 I finished the rewrite. I remember this very well on Halloween nineteen eighty 1008 01:19:30.920 --> 01:19:36.920 I guess it's eighty three at that point. And then, um, two 1009 01:19:38.000 --> 01:19:43.920 weeks before they were scheduled to go before cameras, the money disappeared, it 1010 01:19:44.039 --> 01:19:48.319 evaporated. And oh and oh, I forgot to say. We got the 1011 01:19:48.399 --> 01:19:53.319 proverbial green light after my rewrite on it. Okay, green light, they're 1012 01:19:53.359 --> 01:19:58.600 going forward. It's happening. Boom. We'll be right back after a word 1013 01:19:58.680 --> 01:20:06.119 from our sponsor. And now back to the show. I quit my job 1014 01:20:06.439 --> 01:20:11.199 at the Academy, and I was kind of like Solong mail room, Solong 1015 01:20:11.399 --> 01:20:14.439 suckers, You're never gonna you know, you're never gonna see me again, 1016 01:20:14.560 --> 01:20:17.319 you know, except when I'm walking up the red carpet to collect my little 1017 01:20:17.399 --> 01:20:25.920 gold mane. And uh, well that's what I was saying, you know, 1018 01:20:26.279 --> 01:20:28.920 just after that option, that initial payment of like, wow, I 1019 01:20:29.000 --> 01:20:32.680 am truly a boom. It's just you're getting You can see the billboards on 1020 01:20:32.840 --> 01:20:36.359 that highway lighted up all the way to the horizon. What you're gonna do? 1021 01:20:38.039 --> 01:20:40.199 You know, the old it's all laid down for you. And so 1022 01:20:40.359 --> 01:20:43.680 then the money is yanked two weeks before the start date. It just fell 1023 01:20:43.760 --> 01:20:46.279 apart. I never got an answer as to why it happened, and suddenly 1024 01:20:46.359 --> 01:20:54.600 everything came to a screeching and I mean screeching. Yeah, so the big 1025 01:20:54.720 --> 01:20:58.760 pay day that I was going to get once they started filming never happened. 1026 01:20:59.560 --> 01:21:02.119 And so I actually had to go back to the Academy and ask, in 1027 01:21:02.239 --> 01:21:09.319 the most humiliating circumstances, asked for my old job back, which they gave 1028 01:21:09.399 --> 01:21:18.119 me. And yeah, God love them. And but that taught me such 1029 01:21:18.319 --> 01:21:24.239 a valuable lesson, you know, just such a valuable lesson m a very 1030 01:21:24.319 --> 01:21:29.239 early on about the film industry, how volatile it is, and no matter 1031 01:21:29.600 --> 01:21:32.920 how good it looks or whatever, there are there are things, there are 1032 01:21:32.960 --> 01:21:38.920 bolts of lightning that can strike at any given moment out there that will just 1033 01:21:39.079 --> 01:21:45.920 derail even the most seemingly the most soundest of projects. So U so, 1034 01:21:45.119 --> 01:21:48.600 just always be aware of that. Do not count your chickens before they hatch, 1035 01:21:48.680 --> 01:21:53.800 because it's just too many things can happen until an audience, until your 1036 01:21:53.880 --> 01:22:00.039 film is playing before an audience who has paid money to see it in a 1037 01:22:00.199 --> 01:22:06.439 theater you know and near you. Um man, it does you know, 1038 01:22:06.680 --> 01:22:11.760 Just keep keep knocking on wood the whole way. Just be lucky you can 1039 01:22:11.840 --> 01:22:16.399 even you know you've gotten, You've gotten that far. So um So, 1040 01:22:16.520 --> 01:22:20.800 Then in answer to the agent, um so, when they first made the 1041 01:22:20.960 --> 01:22:26.880 offer to option it, I was I had no agent, I had no 1042 01:22:27.000 --> 01:22:30.000 representation at all, and so I didn't know what to do. Yeah, 1043 01:22:30.319 --> 01:22:36.720 so um uh, through some friends of good friends of mine, um they 1044 01:22:36.840 --> 01:22:42.239 knew they they recommended an agent to me. They made a call to him, 1045 01:22:42.279 --> 01:22:45.720 and this guy came in and negotiated a deal. And suddenly, and 1046 01:22:45.800 --> 01:22:48.880 this was another valuable lesson, I learned the figures that they were offering me 1047 01:22:49.560 --> 01:22:57.920 directly were suddenly twice as high as I ultimate. After the agent got into 1048 01:22:57.960 --> 01:23:00.479 the into the business, so he basically knew agociated a better deal for me, 1049 01:23:01.199 --> 01:23:04.279 so he get his cut. He certainly w got his cut. But 1050 01:23:04.359 --> 01:23:09.520 he also you know, they stepped in and they made sure that I wasn't 1051 01:23:09.560 --> 01:23:13.159 taken advantage of because you know, you're young and you're hungry, and I 1052 01:23:13.239 --> 01:23:15.600 think, yeah, yeah, I'll take You'll take anything that they want to 1053 01:23:15.239 --> 01:23:18.319 want to throw at you. But they this agent came in and his name 1054 01:23:18.359 --> 01:23:23.399 was Shelley Wile, and Shelley came in and got that did a good job 1055 01:23:23.439 --> 01:23:27.399 on that on that first deal. However, Shelley wouldn't take me on as 1056 01:23:27.479 --> 01:23:34.119 a as a full as a legitimate client at his agency because they didn't represent 1057 01:23:34.520 --> 01:23:41.079 well as He would keep me on as what he called a pocket client, 1058 01:23:41.319 --> 01:23:45.159 which was kind of in his back pocket. But yeah, but I wasn't 1059 01:23:45.159 --> 01:23:51.279 a regular client yet based on the merits of a quote unquote exploitation script. 1060 01:23:51.920 --> 01:23:57.880 So you know, slaughter ally was still for him, didn't merit a you 1061 01:23:58.000 --> 01:24:03.680 know, real representation yet. So so that's how so I had. I 1062 01:24:03.880 --> 01:24:06.359 was his pocket client for a while, and so he wasn't going to do 1063 01:24:06.399 --> 01:24:09.720 anything for me. He would be there to negotiate a deal for me, 1064 01:24:09.840 --> 01:24:13.039 but I wasn't going to be able to get out and meet other people or 1065 01:24:13.680 --> 01:24:17.880 or move on the success of or the limited success of slaughter Ally, so 1066 01:24:18.000 --> 01:24:23.000 what happened was I went back, I had my took back my job at 1067 01:24:23.079 --> 01:24:27.000 the at the mail room, fell into a deep funk of a depression where 1068 01:24:27.000 --> 01:24:30.119 I was like xerox in my face every day, and you know, because 1069 01:24:30.199 --> 01:24:32.800 thinking I'm never going to get out of here, I'm going to die an 1070 01:24:32.840 --> 01:24:35.720 old man in the mail room, you know, all this stuff. It 1071 01:24:35.840 --> 01:24:41.279 was just oh so depressing, um and I felt I was never I wasn't 1072 01:24:41.319 --> 01:24:45.319 going to find anything worth writing about again. And so then then what happened. 1073 01:24:46.640 --> 01:24:51.000 And during this time, I was going to all these punk shows, 1074 01:24:51.119 --> 01:24:58.039 and I was starting to make music videos for Black Flag and Henry Rollins and 1075 01:24:59.279 --> 01:25:03.960 the are you um cinematographer director part of the crew I was. I was 1076 01:25:04.039 --> 01:25:08.359 directing them, you know, you know so I mean basically I just was 1077 01:25:08.439 --> 01:25:10.720 going to these guys. I went to the Minimen after a show and I 1078 01:25:10.760 --> 01:25:12.960 said, I talked to Mike Watt, the bass player, and I said, 1079 01:25:13.000 --> 01:25:14.880 Mike, you know, I can make it. I've had a couple 1080 01:25:14.920 --> 01:25:16.640 of beers and I said, Mike, I can make a I can make 1081 01:25:16.680 --> 01:25:19.520 a video for you. You guys were like, you know, three hundred 1082 01:25:19.560 --> 01:25:23.880 dollars and Mike said, okay, let's do it. Do you mean, 1083 01:25:23.960 --> 01:25:26.880 do you recall any songs the videos have you done? Oh? Yeah? 1084 01:25:26.920 --> 01:25:31.119 It was for the minimen. It was this Ain't No Picnic? And then 1085 01:25:31.359 --> 01:25:35.520 we uh in the same session we shot, we went down and they were 1086 01:25:35.560 --> 01:25:39.520 performing live that night too. We were shooting on a weekend, and so 1087 01:25:39.640 --> 01:25:43.760 we shot on a Saturday and Sunday, and then they were performing Saturday night 1088 01:25:44.239 --> 01:25:47.479 at a big punk rock show down at the Olympic Auditorium in downtown LA, 1089 01:25:47.560 --> 01:25:53.359 which used to be an arena for like you know, old wrestling gigs and 1090 01:25:53.359 --> 01:25:58.800 stuff like that. It was just a concrete slab and so we had all 1091 01:25:58.840 --> 01:26:00.560 the camera equipment everything, and I had the crew and we were all young. 1092 01:26:00.640 --> 01:26:02.560 I said, look, I'll pay everybody, you know, we'll we'll 1093 01:26:02.720 --> 01:26:05.880 you guys, let's get some pizza and let's go down to the frecking show 1094 01:26:06.079 --> 01:26:11.920 and we'll we'll um shoot um, what what do you shoot? And we'll 1095 01:26:12.000 --> 01:26:14.279 man, we'll shoot um. I said, I want to shoot him doing 1096 01:26:14.520 --> 01:26:19.119 um uh this um ain't talking about Love, which was their cover of the 1097 01:26:19.199 --> 01:26:24.000 Van Halen Opus. You know, Van Halen's first big hit, Ain't Talking 1098 01:26:24.000 --> 01:26:28.239 about love and when you know, when Van Halen performed it, it's like 1099 01:26:28.359 --> 01:26:30.359 six minutes long, you know, and then it finally climaxes with it, 1100 01:26:30.439 --> 01:26:32.960 you know, hey hey, hey, yeah, you know in that whole 1101 01:26:33.399 --> 01:26:38.840 um. The miniment did it in thirty seven seconds and basically they just took 1102 01:26:38.880 --> 01:26:43.199 the last um, the last stands of lyrics and then, uh, you 1103 01:26:43.279 --> 01:26:45.640 know, I've been to the edge. I stood and looked down. You 1104 01:26:45.680 --> 01:26:46.880 know, I lost a lot of friends there. I got no time to 1105 01:26:46.960 --> 01:26:50.840 mess around, no way. And then um, hey, hey hey, 1106 01:26:51.000 --> 01:26:54.399 you know, hey, hey hey, and that was it, and they 1107 01:26:54.560 --> 01:26:57.560 played it really fast. So I told the miniment, I said, let's 1108 01:26:57.760 --> 01:26:59.760 let's do this live. You know, I mean, I'm gonna shoot you 1109 01:26:59.760 --> 01:27:02.960 guys live performing this, but try to perform it at the tempo you remember 1110 01:27:03.000 --> 01:27:05.359 recording it because we had no playback room, right, you know, I 1111 01:27:05.439 --> 01:27:11.439 had a cassette that was playing back for the stuff earlier in the day and 1112 01:27:11.560 --> 01:27:15.000 so um um and they said okay, and I said, do one other 1113 01:27:15.079 --> 01:27:19.039 thing. The song is so short, just play it twice so I have 1114 01:27:19.199 --> 01:27:23.199 time to switch camera positions because I had two cameras, and I said, 1115 01:27:23.199 --> 01:27:26.119 I just want my two guys to switch, you know, angles so we 1116 01:27:26.159 --> 01:27:29.399 can get full on coverage, right And he said, sure, you know, 1117 01:27:29.479 --> 01:27:31.800 we'll do it. So so we get down there. We get and 1118 01:27:31.880 --> 01:27:34.880 it's this big punk show. There's like half a dozen bands on on. 1119 01:27:35.000 --> 01:27:41.039 They were pretty high up in the in the order in so we we were 1120 01:27:41.119 --> 01:27:44.159 there and we were right on the edge of the procenium and I had all 1121 01:27:44.239 --> 01:27:47.560 the camera stuff in there, and they told me where was going to be 1122 01:27:47.640 --> 01:27:50.520 in their set, you know, and so I said okay, and they 1123 01:27:50.560 --> 01:27:54.439 gave me the signal and I said, roll the cameras and then they started 1124 01:27:54.479 --> 01:27:59.880 playing the song and the guys, we're shooting, and then the song d 1125 01:28:00.720 --> 01:28:04.520 thirty seven seconds later and great, now we're going to switch. They just 1126 01:28:04.720 --> 01:28:08.800 went right back into it without any break. And I said, Mike, 1127 01:28:08.880 --> 01:28:13.319 no, no, you know. And d boone you know, on the 1128 01:28:13.399 --> 01:28:15.880 guitar, was just I remember him just kind of shrugging like, oh, 1129 01:28:15.640 --> 01:28:23.319 dude, you know, rock and bucket. So I had good My good 1130 01:28:23.359 --> 01:28:27.920 friend Bill Judkins was doing a second unit quote second unit, which was basically 1131 01:28:28.000 --> 01:28:31.439 he had an old spring wound bell and Howe sixteen millimeter camera that was like 1132 01:28:31.520 --> 01:28:34.640 the leftover from World War One or something. You know. And uh, 1133 01:28:34.960 --> 01:28:39.279 and Bill was right next to me, and I remember he just scrambled up 1134 01:28:39.319 --> 01:28:42.760 onto the stage. He just clambered up there right away. And as soon 1135 01:28:42.840 --> 01:28:47.039 as they started doing the second version and got behind them looking out at the 1136 01:28:47.159 --> 01:28:50.279 audience, he got a great got a great angle. My other friend, 1137 01:28:50.359 --> 01:28:54.960 John Hart couldn't do it because the camera was too too big. He just 1138 01:28:55.000 --> 01:28:59.439 couldn't get it up. It was an airflex and so Bill got got these 1139 01:28:59.479 --> 01:29:03.680 great shots. But the problem was Bill's camera was so old. The the 1140 01:29:04.239 --> 01:29:11.199 spring on the cameras it would get lower in the wind, it would start 1141 01:29:11.279 --> 01:29:15.960 slowing down. So when the film starts moving slower through the aperture, you 1142 01:29:15.119 --> 01:29:21.039 capture more action on each frame. So basically when you project it, everything 1143 01:29:21.119 --> 01:29:25.359 starts speeding up and it's like an old silent film, you know. And 1144 01:29:25.520 --> 01:29:30.159 so the last footage bits of them, they're just like jumping around. They 1145 01:29:30.239 --> 01:29:33.199 look like you know, Buster Katona. It was just it was crazy. 1146 01:29:33.560 --> 01:29:36.479 But once we started cutting it together, it kind of added to the whole 1147 01:29:36.520 --> 01:29:42.680 frenetic quality of the video. And then we did some in this because it 1148 01:29:42.800 --> 01:29:45.560 was early eighties, we could solarize some video and stuff. As we added 1149 01:29:45.640 --> 01:29:48.399 some kind of effects to it, and it's just it's I have it on 1150 01:29:48.479 --> 01:29:53.600 my website, you can you can see it. Yeah, but MTV played 1151 01:29:53.640 --> 01:29:57.039 it as the world's shortest video. It made the MTV news. I never 1152 01:29:57.119 --> 01:30:00.760 saw I saw that, but apparently Kurt Loder introduced as the world shortest video 1153 01:30:00.800 --> 01:30:03.960 at the time and now which says something like that, we'll be right back 1154 01:30:04.159 --> 01:30:13.319 after a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show. But 1155 01:30:13.520 --> 01:30:15.680 I thought was pretty cool. But um, this ain't no picnic, the 1156 01:30:15.760 --> 01:30:19.199 one that we really did that was sort of legitimate. That that played quite 1157 01:30:19.239 --> 01:30:27.199 a while on MTV and uh um and and actually a lot of that footage, 1158 01:30:27.239 --> 01:30:30.520 all the outtakes and everything else were proved to be pretty valuable because you 1159 01:30:30.560 --> 01:30:33.079 know, Dee Boone, the guitarist for the miniment, was killed in a 1160 01:30:33.239 --> 01:30:38.079 car wreck. Um late in the December of that year. This is eighty 1161 01:30:38.159 --> 01:30:43.119 four, and um, you know, it's great having some really good, 1162 01:30:43.239 --> 01:30:46.000 great images of him performing, although we don't have sound one on it, 1163 01:30:46.159 --> 01:30:49.399 but there's some really crisp stuff. And then I did another one for them, 1164 01:30:49.720 --> 01:30:55.560 um no that yeah, later later that year. Um, um, 1165 01:30:55.840 --> 01:31:00.000 this ain't not this Saint King of the Hill, which we shot on video 1166 01:31:00.560 --> 01:31:02.279 at the time, and we had a steadicamp for that. We really stepped 1167 01:31:02.399 --> 01:31:06.520 up, you know. Um so um, so you did all this stuff, 1168 01:31:06.560 --> 01:31:11.359 so we're, um, what what doors are that opened for you? 1169 01:31:11.560 --> 01:31:15.079 Well? Do you think that um that you saw on top of your writing? 1170 01:31:18.000 --> 01:31:21.479 All right, sorry, we're back, okay, so you've done well 1171 01:31:23.319 --> 01:31:26.199 videos. Yeah. So what I was my idea at the time was like, 1172 01:31:26.279 --> 01:31:30.439 okay, cool, I'm I'm getting my some directing experience now doing these 1173 01:31:30.600 --> 01:31:32.720 these music videos, you know. And uh and it was again it was 1174 01:31:32.800 --> 01:31:40.000 real, real shoe string budget kind of stuff. It was totally punk rock 1175 01:31:40.800 --> 01:31:45.479 um. But SST Records was really happy with the with the the minimum videos, 1176 01:31:45.880 --> 01:31:50.359 and so they started talking to me about doing something with with Black Flag. 1177 01:31:51.680 --> 01:31:57.439 Yeah. It was because they were black Flag basically ran SST at this 1178 01:31:57.560 --> 01:32:00.439 time. It was Henry Rollins was ahead of it, wasn't he. No, 1179 01:32:00.560 --> 01:32:03.319 well, well yeah he wasn't. The original Well that my memories old 1180 01:32:03.640 --> 01:32:11.039 black Flag was always Greg Genka and and Chuck Takowski. But then Chuck eventually 1181 01:32:11.399 --> 01:32:16.359 left um and just continued to sort of run SST. But but Greg gen 1182 01:32:17.159 --> 01:32:25.640 started SST Records and he was the guitars for Black Flag and so Henry excuse 1183 01:32:25.720 --> 01:32:29.399 me, it was not the original Yeah, no vocalists. There were several 1184 01:32:29.479 --> 01:32:33.720 before Henry Um, but he was the one that finally stepped in and became 1185 01:32:33.880 --> 01:32:39.319 really the face of Black Flag because Henry really relished, i think, being 1186 01:32:39.399 --> 01:32:44.359 the front man there and he was, you know, a formidable personality. 1187 01:32:45.199 --> 01:32:48.279 Um. And so who formed the Circle Jerks after that, well, Chris 1188 01:32:48.399 --> 01:32:53.760 Morris and he would been Chris Morris was the original vocalist for Black Flag, 1189 01:32:53.960 --> 01:32:57.399 right okay, And he sang on like nervous breakdown and some of those really 1190 01:32:57.720 --> 01:33:01.319 that that very first EP for fives that they did, um and then and 1191 01:33:01.439 --> 01:33:05.079 then he went on to he left and to start Circle Jerks. I was 1192 01:33:05.199 --> 01:33:10.720 up at Skywalker Sound a couple of years ago, huh, and they had 1193 01:33:10.720 --> 01:33:14.760 a project there. They had all the original masters for the Black Flag um, 1194 01:33:15.640 --> 01:33:18.680 you know albums and really they were remastering oh wow, and it's it 1195 01:33:18.840 --> 01:33:21.439 was just classic, Like at my box, they were showing us like this 1196 01:33:21.600 --> 01:33:25.920 project they were working on. I'm just like, that's interesting, crazy black 1197 01:33:27.560 --> 01:33:31.039 Yeah. Yeah, there's a clash of stuff right there. But um, 1198 01:33:32.279 --> 01:33:36.359 um, and that's that's another story. Working with with Henry and and and 1199 01:33:36.439 --> 01:33:41.000 all that. But you know, by my I was hoping that what this 1200 01:33:41.079 --> 01:33:45.760 would do would would give me continued cred, you know, as a director, 1201 01:33:45.119 --> 01:33:49.920 and then my writing career would be kind of moving along simultaneously, you 1202 01:33:50.000 --> 01:33:54.199 know, with this, so that eventually I would be I could parlay it 1203 01:33:54.600 --> 01:33:57.560 into a thing where I write something and say, okay, I want to 1204 01:33:57.600 --> 01:34:00.399 direct this, okay, and and hoping that somebody would give me that option, 1205 01:34:00.960 --> 01:34:08.119 it would give me that chance. Um what happened then was that I'm 1206 01:34:08.159 --> 01:34:11.359 back at the mail room right and I'm like in a funk now because the 1207 01:34:11.960 --> 01:34:15.760 production fell apart, and um and I just didn't think I was going to 1208 01:34:15.800 --> 01:34:18.239 get anywhere out. So like I was saying, I've seen all these punk 1209 01:34:18.279 --> 01:34:21.359 shows and really may be inspired by the music. And I that's when I 1210 01:34:21.840 --> 01:34:27.000 really tried to write that failed murder mystery thing that fell apart, and it 1211 01:34:27.119 --> 01:34:30.199 just it just didn't come to come together. So I also started a record 1212 01:34:30.279 --> 01:34:33.880 label shortly after this too, but that but that was a little further down 1213 01:34:33.920 --> 01:34:40.279 the line. But um so anyway, still in working there, m I 1214 01:34:40.399 --> 01:34:43.279 ran into another old friend of mine that I had gone to film school with, 1215 01:34:43.680 --> 01:34:47.359 and he said, um, what are you doing? And I said, 1216 01:34:47.399 --> 01:34:50.720 on the licking stamps in the mail room, dude, I've kind of 1217 01:34:50.840 --> 01:34:54.640 I'm like bummed. And he said, well, whatever happened to slaughter Alley? 1218 01:34:55.079 --> 01:34:57.359 He said that was a great scrap And I said, I'm just sitting 1219 01:34:57.399 --> 01:34:59.039 there on a shelf. But he said, give it to me. He 1220 01:34:59.079 --> 01:35:01.279 said, I'm working. I'm working in the mail room of William Morris Agency. 1221 01:35:01.760 --> 01:35:04.000 And he said, oh, you know, I can't tell you the 1222 01:35:04.039 --> 01:35:06.920 crap I have to read every day, and a lot of this is by 1223 01:35:08.239 --> 01:35:10.680 in a lot of the scripts are by people who are making a lot of 1224 01:35:10.760 --> 01:35:13.680 money. He said that slatter rally is just as good as any of the 1225 01:35:13.760 --> 01:35:15.199 stuff that I'm reading. So let me get Let me get it too. 1226 01:35:15.199 --> 01:35:17.439 A couple of young agents there that I have in mind, and I said 1227 01:35:17.439 --> 01:35:27.640 okay, So he did, and within a couple of weeks I was asked 1228 01:35:27.680 --> 01:35:30.159 to come into William Morris and I met with a couple of young agents there, 1229 01:35:30.640 --> 01:35:36.000 Rick Jeff and Carol Yumpkis were their names, and they they loved the 1230 01:35:36.039 --> 01:35:44.279 script and they signed me and that was just like boy, Suddenly it was 1231 01:35:44.319 --> 01:35:46.760 like, oh, well, being represented by people my age, whereas Shelley 1232 01:35:47.159 --> 01:35:51.560 while was an old, much older guy, and now here were people that 1233 01:35:51.640 --> 01:35:58.359 like in my age bracket and speaking my language right, And they just loved 1234 01:35:58.399 --> 01:36:00.399 it. And they said, we're going to get you out of meetings and 1235 01:36:00.520 --> 01:36:02.239 we'll start, you know, we're gonna start finding some things for you. 1236 01:36:02.359 --> 01:36:06.359 And I said, fantastic. So I was really emboldened by that. Um 1237 01:36:08.039 --> 01:36:14.600 Rick Jaffa incidentally, UM left a couple of years or three three, three 1238 01:36:14.720 --> 01:36:18.000 years or four years later UM as my agent, UM to become a writer 1239 01:36:18.199 --> 01:36:21.520 himself. And he just recently, he and his wife just recently wrote Rise 1240 01:36:21.560 --> 01:36:25.399 on the Planet of the Apes. Oh wow, Yeah, so he's done, 1241 01:36:25.399 --> 01:36:30.000 all right, okay, and yeah yeah, but um but he was 1242 01:36:30.039 --> 01:36:32.199 a he was a terrific guy and a terrific agent, you know, for 1243 01:36:32.399 --> 01:36:35.840 me at the time. And I remember meeting him the first time and he 1244 01:36:35.880 --> 01:36:39.880 said, I gotta tell you. I said, I got your script. 1245 01:36:40.000 --> 01:36:41.840 I read it. I couldn't put it down. He said, when it 1246 01:36:41.920 --> 01:36:44.720 was done, I threw it in the air. I was so happy reading 1247 01:36:44.800 --> 01:36:46.560 a really good script. This is a really awesome script. I love it, 1248 01:36:46.920 --> 01:36:49.319 you know. And this was just like, oh God, thank you. 1249 01:36:49.600 --> 01:36:55.000 Hearing stuff like that from somebody really in the know, yeah, you 1250 01:36:55.079 --> 01:36:57.920 know who said we're gonna take this and we're gonna, we're gonna, we're 1251 01:36:57.920 --> 01:37:00.720 gonna get you some work, you know based but it was still under option 1252 01:37:00.880 --> 01:37:04.359 with the company that had so it was tied up. They couldn't go out 1253 01:37:04.399 --> 01:37:08.840 and try to resell it. But they said, we're gonna, we're gonna 1254 01:37:08.880 --> 01:37:11.960 use this as a calling card for you and get you out there now and 1255 01:37:12.119 --> 01:37:15.640 start starting out. Yeah you start, you know, thinks. So that's 1256 01:37:15.840 --> 01:37:20.840 um, that's what what led to my first bit of employment, which I 1257 01:37:20.880 --> 01:37:24.840 can tell you about now, or we'll hold until next we'll take it later. 1258 01:37:24.840 --> 01:37:26.560 I think we'll wrap it up for two. Okay. I think this 1259 01:37:26.760 --> 01:37:29.880 is great. This is this is better than I expected about it. I 1260 01:37:29.920 --> 01:37:32.600 mean, because it's I feel like there's so much more. There's so much 1261 01:37:32.640 --> 01:37:36.399 more we could talk about. And I think that the uh, the audience 1262 01:37:36.439 --> 01:37:42.359 of one whoever's listening to this podcast get kick out of it. Okay, 1263 01:37:42.479 --> 01:37:45.239 but um, yeah, so let's wrap it up and sure we'll catch up 1264 01:37:45.359 --> 01:37:48.479 another you know. Sure we've kind of jumped around all over the place with 1265 01:37:48.680 --> 01:37:53.920 music and yeah, but it's good. Okay, let me finish the thought 1266 01:37:54.000 --> 01:37:57.840 though, which was maybe you can put this back into the context that it 1267 01:37:57.960 --> 01:38:00.880 really should have been. Okay, when I was are talking about going to 1268 01:38:01.079 --> 01:38:04.960 these the shows and like they've seeing the blasters and and a lot of this 1269 01:38:05.159 --> 01:38:10.199 rockabilly stuff that was happening, Um, they struck me all as being a 1270 01:38:10.279 --> 01:38:14.920 little bit like posers, right and I and and I felt very acutely, 1271 01:38:15.880 --> 01:38:18.520 um that you know, there would have been a generation or two before them 1272 01:38:18.640 --> 01:38:24.159 who were the real McCoys, if you will, that were the real the 1273 01:38:24.279 --> 01:38:28.880 real rockabilly guys, the guys who were sniffing glue and racing their cars at 1274 01:38:29.199 --> 01:38:31.680 three o'clock in the morning and like, you know, drinking they got a 1275 01:38:31.720 --> 01:38:34.479 pint of sloe gin in the back pocket and high school you know, and 1276 01:38:34.680 --> 01:38:41.039 and and would rumble with a chain and a dire iron, right, And 1277 01:38:41.880 --> 01:38:45.000 I always was thinking about, boy, would be really it's amusing to what 1278 01:38:45.119 --> 01:38:50.119 would happen if some of those guys came and met up with these kind of 1279 01:38:50.199 --> 01:38:55.960 poser blockabilly pussies, you know, and it really come to rumble, what 1280 01:38:56.039 --> 01:38:59.039 would happen, you know, what would happen to these kind of posing guys 1281 01:38:59.079 --> 01:39:01.880 who looked like really tough, right right, You know if the real McCoys 1282 01:39:01.920 --> 01:39:04.640 showed up one night on their doorsteps. So that was kind of an impetus 1283 01:39:04.760 --> 01:39:10.479 to start writing slaughter Allister. Really, what would happen if the past came 1284 01:39:10.920 --> 01:39:15.680 and visited upon the future? Yeah, and how how would either hold up? 1285 01:39:15.920 --> 01:39:19.159 You know, it is cool and it's such a cool little subculture. 1286 01:39:19.359 --> 01:39:24.960 Um yeah, like um, you know like um conan and Bryan is a 1287 01:39:25.119 --> 01:39:29.520 huge Rocketbilly fan. These guys all his own Rocketbilly band and you know, 1288 01:39:29.680 --> 01:39:31.840 oh really I didn't know that was his brand of brand. Yeah, he 1289 01:39:31.960 --> 01:39:36.640 go, he goes sometimes on these little tours, like on his hiatus of 1290 01:39:36.720 --> 01:39:41.520 the show, where he and his little Rocketbilly band play across the you know 1291 01:39:41.640 --> 01:39:44.920 country. Sure so, but he's got this little he's got this affinity. 1292 01:39:45.000 --> 01:39:46.920 It's probably why his hair is a pompado our time or whatever. Yeah, 1293 01:39:47.159 --> 01:39:50.239 okay, well that's that sort of explains a lot. He's a Harvard guy 1294 01:39:50.439 --> 01:39:56.760 whatever he is, you know. Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. H 1295 01:39:57.159 --> 01:40:01.920 it'd be funny if he met at with the past. Now we'll be right 1296 01:40:02.000 --> 01:40:12.039 back after a word from our sponsor and now back to the show. Well, 1297 01:40:12.079 --> 01:40:15.439 that's kind of what I'm talking about, you know, so you know 1298 01:40:15.520 --> 01:40:19.640 you look at it. I mean again, it's partly our our fascination with 1299 01:40:19.720 --> 01:40:25.479 people like Johnny Cash and Carl Perkins and all those all those early guys. 1300 01:40:25.600 --> 01:40:30.239 You know, they weren't they weren't bright educated guys. They were tough as 1301 01:40:30.399 --> 01:40:33.880 nails though, and they were really they were the real deal. And uh 1302 01:40:34.680 --> 01:40:40.279 so I just you know, kind of wonder what would happen, what would 1303 01:40:40.319 --> 01:40:43.439 happen? So how funny? All right, cool? Yeah, we can 1304 01:40:43.479 --> 01:40:46.720 wrap this up and we'll We'll continue another time for sure, and I know 1305 01:40:47.119 --> 01:40:50.199 I'm interested. There's so much more to talk about. So yeah, and 1306 01:40:50.319 --> 01:40:56.319 hopefully the next time we talked, I'll mention whatever the next steps of projects 1307 01:40:56.319 --> 01:40:58.640 are going on, and we'll catch up at what you're doing. Yeah, 1308 01:40:58.680 --> 01:41:01.760 there was kind of a cluster back to vity there at at a period there 1309 01:41:01.840 --> 01:41:10.600 that really, um, you know it, career in Hollywood is very streaky. 1310 01:41:10.720 --> 01:41:13.840 It can be like like a hot streak in sports, you know, 1311 01:41:14.039 --> 01:41:18.319 where if you're if you're hot and you're you're working at then were you work 1312 01:41:18.359 --> 01:41:21.800 at? You know, surf that wave you know, like yeah, yeah, 1313 01:41:21.960 --> 01:41:27.600 yeah, because you never know when if if another good one is going 1314 01:41:27.640 --> 01:41:30.960 to calm or not right right again? Thanks. Hollywood is always throwing the 1315 01:41:31.079 --> 01:41:34.640 changeup ball at you. So I'm mixing my my sports metaphors. I know, 1316 01:41:35.199 --> 01:41:38.239 you know. We got about three or four of them in the span 1317 01:41:38.319 --> 01:41:41.920 of a two or three sentences here, But I think you get the gist 1318 01:41:42.000 --> 01:41:46.560 of what I'm talking about. You lost me on the wave when I was 1319 01:41:46.560 --> 01:41:50.359 just my brain started thinking about the wave. Yeah, yeah, yeah right 1320 01:41:50.479 --> 01:41:55.000 cool? Well right, Scott, thank you, Yeah, we'll catch up 1321 01:41:55.039 --> 01:41:58.840 later. Cool. I want to thank Scott so much for doing such a 1322 01:41:59.000 --> 01:42:00.880 great job on this episode. If you want to get links to anything we 1323 01:42:00.960 --> 01:42:04.479 spoke about in this episode, head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting 1324 01:42:04.560 --> 01:42:09.079 dot tv forward slash three h eight, and if you haven't already, please 1325 01:42:09.119 --> 01:42:13.800 head over to Screenwriting podcast dot com and leave a good review and subscribe to 1326 01:42:13.960 --> 01:42:15.720 the show. It really helps us out a lot. Thank you so much 1327 01:42:15.760 --> 01:42:19.439 for listening, guys, As always, keep on writing no matter what. 1328 01:42:19.840 --> 01:42:25.319 I'll talk to you soon. Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast at 1329 01:42:25.399 --> 01:42:27.359 Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.