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Snapped is intended for mature audiences.
This episode contains mentions of drink spiking,

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binge drinking, and graphic descriptions of
sexual assault. Please use discretion when listening

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to access episode transcripts, consider joining
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These transcripts have a key at the
top with the names and schools of

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every speaker, so I highly recommend
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check them out on Patreon dot com
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Snapped, visit Snaps the podcast dot
com, and don't forget to follow us

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on social media at Snaps the Podcast. Thank you so much for listening.

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Let's start the ship show. When
I was eighteen years old, I became

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an Alpha FI sister at the University
of Maryland. Three years after disaffiliating from

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the chapter and three days before graduating
college, I released the first season of

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Snapped, a tell all podcast series
about my sorority experience. Since the release

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of season one, I've interviewed forty
current or former Greek Life members, including

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some Greek Life adjacent individuals. These
are their stories. I'm Lucy Taylor,

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your host and favorite excommunicated sister.
This is snapped snapped, so like for

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those who don't know, way we
can like we go like six hour drive

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away. They're usually like Beecher Mountain
weekends. No one is sober. Everyone

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brings a date. There is a
lot of unwritten social rules. One of

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the expectations of away weekend is that
the girls ring the booze the food,

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and make a cooler. You have
to go out and buy a cooler and

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like say it down and paint it. There's an expectation for sex. Everyone

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wants to go. All sorority girls
want to go. All non sorority girls

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who know about them want to go. A lot of people setting up other

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people, whether it be line dates
for away weekend or someone that you might

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not necessarily have known super well,
or it seemed like a lot of the

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people that I knew and the sisters
that I saw that went that went with

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these random guys were like, Oh, I don't think this guy's cute at

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all, but he's inviting me,
so I'll say yes, and I just

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won't sleep with him. I'll be
fine. And then they'll come back from

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the weekend and they'll be like,
oh yeah, like I did end up

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sleeping with him, but like it's
fine. So what do you think happens

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when you put unlimited alcohol entitled frat
brothers and a coupled up sleeping situation hours

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away from campus? And who's going
to bear the weight of those consquences.

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In the article The Dark Power of
Fraternities, Caitlin Flanagan notes that fraternities are

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the one industry in the country in
which every aspect of serving alcohol can be

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managed by people who are legally too
young to drink it. With America's drinking

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age is twenty one, fraternities are
able to hold full rain over the alcohol

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distribution on college campuses, and with
this power comes a unique monopoly over the

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underage drinking scene. Last week,
we learned about the immense pressure that's put

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on sebrity women. Not only is
it so important that they attend fraternity social

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events, but it's even more important
that they uphold their chapter's desired image while

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attending. Away Weekend also known as
formal Weekend, is one of the various

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social events where these expectations are upheld. Now, I could blab for hours

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about this Greek sponsored binge drinking extravaganza, but I think someone else should tell

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us about it instead. Once upon
a time, in the land of College

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Park, Maryland, lived a jeed
named Margo. It was Margo's junior year

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when a fraternity prince asked her to
be his date on a weekend away.

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The guy who asked me, I
think i'd met him my freshman year and

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we had like made out once or
something, and we would just bump into

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each other off and on throughout the
years at the bars or whatever, and

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I think he just needed a date, Like I remember he asked me very

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last minute. But for my friend
group, it was very much like,

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oh, it's so exciting. You
know, we're not in sororities, but

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oh my gosh. You know,
I got asked to an away weekend and

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I think he had asked me like
a few days before the trip, and

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I remember he wanted to leave on
a Thursday, and I was like,

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oh, I have classes, Like, I can't leave on Thursday during the

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day. I have class on Friday. And he said, well, you

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know, I'm a senior and if
you can't leave on Thursday, then I

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just don't think you know what's gonna
work. I'm like, you are the

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one who asked me like two days
before we're leaving or whatever. But I

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think in the end I decided to
skip those classes anyways, and I was

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at like a really shit point mental
health wise, anyways, and away weekend

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kind of came as this excuse to
run away from my problem. One of

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the expectations of away weekend is that
the girls bring the booze, the food

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and make a cooler. I think
I felt bad because if everyone else is

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getting a cooler, I need to
make him something. So I didn't have

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time to make it cooler. But
I remember I bought and painted a flask.

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We to drive like three hours.
It was the middle of nowhere Pennsylvania

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was. There was snow on the
ground by the time we got to whatever

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town it was. But I just
remember that car Red was so awkward because

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it was just him and I sitting
in the back seat. There was all

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this like shit piled up so high
in the car, and we were like

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crammed together, and I really wasn't
interested in him, So I guess I

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was kind of playing him in a
way too, where I was like,

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I'm just going because I wanted an
excuse to get out of town and go

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to the mountains. I was also
expecting like hiking and outdoor activities, and

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I quickly came to learn that none
of that was going to be had.

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I think I knew two of the
guys in the fraud, and I didn't

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know anybody else. I didn't know
any girls there. I think like the

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first night, when he thought,
you know, something might happen, he

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was doing a little bit of introducing
me to people, but then he would

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just like get drunk and go off
with his friends. So then it's kind

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of me by myself trying to navigate
who can I talk to or whatever,

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and no one really went out of
their way to talk to me. I

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think that's part of the reason I
was drinking so much, was because I

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was so socially awkward and anxious.
The whole time we would wake up,

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people would start drinking right off the
bat, you know, mimosas or whatever.

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The frat had rented out three or
four houses, and I was in

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the senior house. There was a
designated party house. We wouldn't make our

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way over there to stay drink.
Everyone would get really drunk. He would

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go back, like have a nap
or eat some food, and then go

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back to the party house for the
night party and then go to bed and

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started all over again. But there
was one morning where like we woke up,

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I think there was like three sets
of bunk beds. We're like on

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one of the lower bunks, you
know, there's other guys in the room

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too, And it was a single
bed and this was a really tall man.

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I was on the inside of the
bed, he was on the outside,

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and like it was me and then
the wall. He was like kept

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scooching closer to me, and it
was like I kept scooting away and there

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was nowhere else for me to go, and there was the wall, and

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he leaned in for a kiss,
and I just kind of like I know

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where to go. And so yeah, he did kiss me, and I

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was just like, you know,
I too hungover and like leapt out.

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I think he just started getting more
and more pissed than I wasn't going to

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give in. It's also like he
wasn't doing a good job of trying to

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like come off as this like flattering
gentleman who I might like find interest in.

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For him, It's like I'm here, I invited you here, so

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this has to happen, and I'm
a senior. Oh my god, the

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amount of times that I heard like, Oh, we're seniors, this,

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this is what we do because we're
seniors. It was like so much pride

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in it, and there was so
much of this like, oh, well,

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this is our last year, so
we need to have everything we want.

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And by the end of away weekend, I mean, he never spoke

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to me again. He was so
mad at me, and it was just

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kind of this build up level of
him getting kissed at me the whole weekend,

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first because I want to sleep with
him, and then because I went

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to the emergency room and and he
never spoke to me again. We'll check

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back on Margo soon. In the
meantime, I want you all to meet

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Lizzie. I went to the University
of Colorado at Boulder in twenty sixteen,

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and I joined a sorority my fall
semester. I got to the point in

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the sorority where I was filling out
the application to live in the house next

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year, so like I was in
it, and then something just like hit

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me and I was just like done. I literally dropped the sorority. I

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withdrew from classes, and I was
on a flight back to New York,

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like probably within a week. In
her first semester of college, Lizzie attended

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a formal weekend in Aspen, Colorado. I had never met the kid before.

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He just didn't know like a girl
to go with. I was like

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down to go, Like it's the
frat formal to be at the frat that

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I went with. They rent a
house up in Aspen, so three hours

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north, up in the mountains.
I was the first semester of freshman going

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with an older guy. Like it
was just a big deal to me.

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The four of us drove up in
a car. It was like the winter

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in Colorado, so there's snow and
it's freezing. We were like ripping bone

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taking shots in the car, so
like eating, driver was drinking and ship.

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When you're driving up there there's one
road, so it's like there was

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a line of cars going up and
it was all of us on the road

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and like you just felt the vibes
like going up the mountains were there.

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It's one windy little road, all
these cars. Every car was fucked up.

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That should have been my first red
flag, honestly. We secondly got

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there, we changed into bikinis and
like that was it. If you wear

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a bikini and you wear like a
cute jacket and like you don't wear anything

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else. Like there was one night
where we went to like a nice dinner

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or whatever, and we went out
to dinner in Aston If for those don't

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who don't know, like it is
like a bougie town. You wear like

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you're Louis Baton Gucci, Like ladies
are wearing like heels and fur and like

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driving in g wagons. Like it
was kind of like a group feeling of

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like we like we have money,
yeah, like and we're here to fuck

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shit up. The hotel every year
would get ruined and they would just pay

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it off and like they could go
back the next year. If you saw

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the pictures and stuff of the hotels
like after, you'd be like, how

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is this hotel allowing them to come
back every single year? And I think

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it was just because they paid them
off. You know, their dads were

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all rich like lawyers or whatever.
They're like, oh, dad, like

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we needed five hundred extra dollars to
cover damages. They rented this Chalet hotel.

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There was a pool and a hot
tub in the middle, and then

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the balconies of each hotel room were
overlooking pool, so there was probably like

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three stories of just frat and girls
like just partying, hanging off balconies like

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so like the frat like dominated the
hotel. There was no one else in

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the hotel. They rented out the
whole thing. Yeah, they're in a

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beautiful town, surrounded by mountains,
blue skies, snow in a bikini in

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a hot tub, like this is
college. I could imagine. It was

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very expensive. I didn't obviously didn't
pay, but yeah, I could imagine.

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So it's the first night at the
hotel. The guys are just handing

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us all alcohol. Me and my
date. You know, we're flirting while

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we're like kissing all night. Like
we're sleeping in the same bed that night,

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so we know that this is happening. As the night is going on,

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I can feel my heart starting to
race faster. The lights are getting

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brighter, like everything is just intensified. And I've done Molly before, so

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I know the feelings. We weren't
being told something, and all of the

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girls around me are feeling the same
thing. I started questioning it to my

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date. When I asked him about
what we're drinking, he would just say,

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oh, I don't even worry about
it. Like, are you having

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fun? I'm like, yeah,
I am having fun, So it's fine.

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I like, I don't even think
I drink that much. Maybe we

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haven't eaten that much, but I'm
like, no, I feel something else.

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My heart is beating out of my
chest. My pupils I look and

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they're laugh. We were literally like
drinking out of bottle, so it was

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like they had to have put it
into the bottles orally asked the guy.

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I'm like, am I rolling right
now? Like what's going on? Like

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if you feel like you're rolling?
Who's like my mom? Like we were

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gonna do hell? Like if you
want Molly, like I could get you

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Molly, like just ask, like
I'm down to do it. And I'm

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like na, like I'm good.
Like we're drinking and like this is the

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first night, Like I'm going to
be here for three more days, Like

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I'm not going to take Molly the
first night. So I was like I'm

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good, but I knew. I
was like fucked up. I knew.

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And when you're drinking on it,
it's a very thin line of like I'm

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okay too, I am not okay. The next day I woke up and

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my head was pounding after you take
molly to kind of go through like a

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depression. So the next morning I
was like sad and like hated myself for

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no reason. We probably went to
sleep at four am the night before and

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woke up with the sun and started
doing it all over again, and this

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time they were saying mimosas and Molly. It was literally eight am. Yeah,

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despite it being a felony, drugging
others without their consent is a pretty

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common activity in fraternity world, and
away weekend is not the only fraternity data

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event where this ship occurs. Let's
talk Babe in a bottle for example.

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Yep, you heard that correctly,
Babe and a bottle. Here, a

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former fraternity social chair from the University
of Maryland will explain. So in fraternity

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culture there's a few data events.
There's Babe in a Bottle, which you

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don't even get me started on the
history of the name. So Babe in

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a bottle. You bring a babe
and you bring a bottle, and you're

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supposed to quote unquote finish them both
by the end of the night. That's

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the etymology of Babe in a bottle. Babe in a bottle you always tell

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people, don't finish their bottles.
But the freshman always bring hard liquor always,

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00:16:03,559 --> 00:16:07,519
and the freshman, no, you're
supposed to finish the bottle, Like

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00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:10,840
there's a lot of pressure to finish
the bottle. Like the freshman they'll bring

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00:16:10,879 --> 00:16:14,519
like fits of like hard liquor and
then finish it. Like my first Babe

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00:16:14,519 --> 00:16:15,720
in a Bottle that I planned,
I took call nine one one on a

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00:16:15,759 --> 00:16:22,279
girl. I spoke with Elena,
a umd Alumna, who was a roof

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00:16:22,279 --> 00:16:27,000
feed at her boyfriend's fraternity's Babe in
a Bottle event. Elena was never in

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00:16:27,039 --> 00:16:33,559
a sorority, but her boyfriend was
in a frat. Frats keep their ships

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00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:38,080
so secretive, like it's only for
the bros. But as a girlfriend,

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00:16:38,519 --> 00:16:44,320
you kind of get to have that
like look over your boyfriend's shoulder privilege,

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00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,320
Like you get to see the group
chat kind of. So you got to

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00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:51,159
like see the group me like over
your boyfriend's shoulder. Yeah, that's what.

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00:16:51,279 --> 00:16:52,600
Like it was never like I never
like took his women like let me

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00:16:52,639 --> 00:16:56,039
go through the right right, But
like I mean naturally, like if you're

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00:16:56,080 --> 00:17:00,200
with someone like you see like exactly
like you're too if you're laying in bed,

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00:17:00,399 --> 00:17:03,960
like exactly, or it's like,
oh, like what did they say

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00:17:03,079 --> 00:17:06,559
or something, and they'll be like, oh, like they just said this

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00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:11,119
in the group, me like yeah, exactly. Like but basically, my

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00:17:11,279 --> 00:17:15,279
boyfriend at a time and I were
on vacation and we were looking through his

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00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:22,119
email for like our tickets to something, and there were two emails that I

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00:17:22,279 --> 00:17:26,920
was like absolutely horrified by. I
wrote it down. If you want me

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00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:33,119
to read it, oh, I'm
already the first email. This was before

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00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:37,720
another Babe in a bottle says brothers
by now you should have found yourself a

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00:17:37,799 --> 00:17:41,839
nice lady friend to bring tonight.
Warning, don't drink too much or your

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00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:48,480
weapon of ass destruction might not fire
when you need it. Remember, let

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00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:52,920
the liquor do the talking. No
you can't actually have hard liquor, don't

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00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:57,519
bring it. I hope you all
make sexy time. I remember specifically this

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00:17:57,599 --> 00:18:00,119
one conversation because it was by father
was problematic thing I ever heard. A

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00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,880
While I was in their house,
there were these two guys like they were

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00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,079
both talking about hookups and the guy
was like yeah, like she was so

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00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,039
blacked out, like she probably doesn't
even remember it, and they were like

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00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:12,480
joking about it. About how like
the girl that he got with the so

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00:18:12,559 --> 00:18:17,720
blacked out that she wouldn't remember sex. And yet I know that this frat

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00:18:17,759 --> 00:18:21,400
does more sexual self prevention stuff than
the other frats, and that they've had

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00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:26,960
conversations about these things. I know
that they have members in certain student organizations

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00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,799
and stuff like that that specifically work
on these things, and yet like these

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00:18:30,839 --> 00:18:34,880
conversations are still being hand. It
was Elena's freshman year when she went as

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00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:41,039
her boyfriend's date to Babe in a
Bottle. So basically the idea is that

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00:18:41,079 --> 00:18:44,680
you and your date finish a bottle
of wine or alcohol and they do like

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00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,759
a pregame, and then they do
the actual event. We were at the

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00:18:47,839 --> 00:18:51,160
pregame. We brought like a bottle
of wine, but at some point we

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00:18:51,279 --> 00:18:55,640
find out that one of his frat
brothers we were talking to had put zanex

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00:18:55,759 --> 00:19:00,480
in his drink as a joke.
What we also realized was that the cup

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00:19:00,759 --> 00:19:03,880
which had the wine with the zanex
had gotten poured back into the bottle that

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00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:07,039
both of us drank out of,
so we had to move from the pregame

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00:19:07,279 --> 00:19:11,200
to the party. So like,
instead of drinking it all, he poured

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00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:12,720
it back into the battle, which
is probably a good thing if it didn't

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00:19:12,759 --> 00:19:15,920
have zan X in it, but
we didn't know that it had zan X.

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00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,279
We leave. The rest of the
night is like relatively fine. I

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00:19:19,319 --> 00:19:22,880
thought that I just drank more than
I realized, but like, other than

255
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,240
that, like nothing horrendous happened.
Thank god. It was like the next

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00:19:26,319 --> 00:19:30,480
day we found out that the guy
who had put the Zanex in his drink

257
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,240
had told a bunch of other members
of the fraternity that he had done it

258
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:37,759
as like a joke, like to
kind of brag a little yep, yep.

259
00:19:37,799 --> 00:19:41,799
He said it himself and spread it
to like multiple people the fraternity.

260
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:45,680
Had said that he was going to, as punishment, have to like work

261
00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,279
door duty for like two days,
and I was like, well, that

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00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:51,119
doesn't seem fair at all, but
whatever, I'm going to let it go.

263
00:19:51,279 --> 00:19:55,799
But luckily I am surrounded by lawyers
in my life because of my own

264
00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:00,799
personal and professional goals, and I
ended up talking to one of them and

265
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,480
explaining the situation. And she was
the first person he was like, that's

266
00:20:03,599 --> 00:20:07,920
very illegal, Like what you're telling
me is extremely concerning to me. Because

267
00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,480
I said to her, I said, look like my boyfriend keeps telling me

268
00:20:10,599 --> 00:20:12,279
he wasn't even trying to drug you. He was trying to drug me,

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00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,519
Like it's not a big deal.
And she was like, it doesn't matter

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00:20:15,559 --> 00:20:18,680
what he was trying to do.
If you put a drug in somebody to

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00:20:18,839 --> 00:20:22,240
drink, whatever happens from there on
out is your fault. You are responsible

272
00:20:22,279 --> 00:20:26,039
for that. So if that cup
had gotten put down and somebody had drinking

273
00:20:26,039 --> 00:20:27,839
out of it and had a reaction, like a medical reaction, he would

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00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,839
have been responsible for that, because
as soon as you put that out there,

275
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,799
it's out of your control. And
I was like, you know,

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00:20:33,839 --> 00:20:37,759
I want to see consequences for him, but I don't want it to come

277
00:20:37,759 --> 00:20:41,000
back on my boyfriend. And I
knew that if I did anything that hurts

278
00:20:41,039 --> 00:20:45,400
the frat as a whole, that
I was going to fall back on him,

279
00:20:45,559 --> 00:20:48,119
and therefore I was gonna lose a
part of my support system. I

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00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:52,400
don't want to take down the entire
frat. And she was like, Okay,

281
00:20:52,559 --> 00:20:55,160
well, then you're gonna have to
go talk to them, because you

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00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,599
can't talk to anybody else because they
will bring down the fraternity. The fact

283
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,880
that he had done it, had
thought it was fun, and then had

284
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,359
like brought it around to all of
these people that this is the thing that

285
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:04,920
he had done, or is like
that's somebody who would do that to a

286
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,680
person in order to take advantage of
them, even if they don't do it

287
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,920
on purpose, could put somebody in
a position where like, somebody else can

288
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,799
take advantage of them, And so
like, I need for something to happen,

289
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:19,000
And so basically I went to the
president of the fraternity and told him

290
00:21:19,039 --> 00:21:22,319
that because like, this is not
who we are, this is not what

291
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,839
we do, Like, I'm so
sorry that this happened, all the all

292
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,039
the difficult things that you would expect. I basically was like, that's great,

293
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:30,920
but this is not okay. And
I said the magic words. I

294
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,119
said, I talked to a lawyer. If this happens again, it will

295
00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:38,079
come back on the fraternity, because
the idea is they knew what had happened,

296
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:41,839
they had let him remain a part
of the organization. Like if he

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00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,359
had gone and done pretty much anything
else, the fraternity could totally be held

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00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,680
responsible for it because they could say, this guy had a pattern of this

299
00:21:47,759 --> 00:21:51,079
behavior, you knew about the behavior, you let him remain a part of

300
00:21:51,079 --> 00:21:53,720
the organization. So what he's doing
is now your fault because you're letting him

301
00:21:53,799 --> 00:21:57,680
be a part of your organization knowing
that he has exhibited these behaviors. And

302
00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,799
so I explained this to him and
he's like, Okay, I have to

303
00:22:00,839 --> 00:22:03,960
talk to my executive board, but
i'll get back to you. What the

304
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:08,920
fuck are these little governments? I
know. I'm like, you can't make

305
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,359
the decision yourself. I mean,
the decision was made as soon as I

306
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,279
said the word lawyer. But he
came back to me like a couple of

307
00:22:15,319 --> 00:22:19,079
hours later and was like, I
just wanted you to know I just met

308
00:22:19,079 --> 00:22:22,880
with my executive board. We're going
to remove him from the organization. And

309
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:27,599
then that night they sent out a
message to the fraternity and said, just

310
00:22:27,759 --> 00:22:32,400
so that you all are aware,
we've removed some money from the fraternity.

311
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,319
Basically, drugging people's drinks is not
okay. If you have any further questions,

312
00:22:36,319 --> 00:22:38,119
you can talk to the exact board. Everybody knew who was me,

313
00:22:38,319 --> 00:22:44,160
because everybody knew whose drink he had
drugged because he told them. And yeah,

314
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,240
that was the beginning of a lot
of problems for me and for my

315
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:52,960
relationship, both with my boyfriend and
with the fraternity. He was very upset

316
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:56,160
with me for a very long time
for going to the fraternity about it.

317
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,559
He kept telling me that he was
trying to drug me. He wasn't trying

318
00:22:59,599 --> 00:23:03,079
to drug you, and which doesn't
matter, Like it doesn't matter. And

319
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,599
I no longer felt comfortable around the
fraternity because this is a guy who had

320
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:07,880
been a part of the fraternity.
I was still living in one of the

321
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,039
satellite houses with a bunch of the
guys, and like, I was getting

322
00:23:11,079 --> 00:23:15,160
dirty looks, and I knew people
made comments about it to him. A

323
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,200
couple of months later, when the
president of the fraternity came in I think

324
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,559
in January, and it must have
been in January February that he came to

325
00:23:21,559 --> 00:23:23,079
me, so this must have been
at the top of his list and said

326
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,880
can I talk to you? And
I said sure. He said we want

327
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,680
to let him back in and I
said why and he was like, well,

328
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,359
you know, he has like a
really hard home life and like he

329
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:38,720
really has a place here, and
like I think he's really learned his lesson.

330
00:23:40,039 --> 00:23:41,880
And I was like, do you
understand the legal liability here, Like

331
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,400
do you understand that you were taking
responsibility for him? And he was like

332
00:23:45,519 --> 00:23:48,759
yeah, I get it and like
I talked to the other president about it

333
00:23:48,759 --> 00:23:52,680
and it's fine. And I was
like, look, I've done my part

334
00:23:52,759 --> 00:23:55,880
here. I know he's still around. I know he's still doing stuff.

335
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:57,799
I'm not dumb. I've gone to
your events. It's not my problem anymore.

336
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,000
And he was like, okay,
Like I'll talk to the executive board

337
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,440
and i'll let you know. And
I was like, you've already need the

338
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,240
decision. I did this thing that
I knew that I had to do,

339
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,680
and now you're telling me you're just
going to take it back. And then

340
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:22,119
he was in the fraternity, so
that's dated event one. Then we have

341
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,839
formal for sororities. Formal is like
a huge deal, but for fraternities it's

342
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:27,359
like a step up from Babe in
a bottle, but it's not the biggest

343
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,160
deal. And then away weekend is
like the head haunch. Like that is

344
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,319
like unless it is explicitly stated,
like you are having sex with your date,

345
00:24:33,599 --> 00:24:37,680
whether or not you want to admit
it or not, that is the

346
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:41,720
expectation. Oh my god. I
remember there's this program at the school we

347
00:24:41,839 --> 00:24:45,960
got to called ten Man Plan and
ten Women Plan. The goal of it

348
00:24:45,039 --> 00:24:51,519
is they teach ten men and ten
women in every chapter every year about sexual

349
00:24:51,519 --> 00:24:55,720
assault prevention. I've done the ten
man plan program four times because people don't

350
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:57,519
always want to do it and we
need ten people to do it. So

351
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:03,240
that day we were talking about away
weekend and the moderators they go, so,

352
00:25:03,319 --> 00:25:07,000
what is expected of women at a
way weekend? I was like,

353
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:11,279
well, the woman provides food,
alcohol, and have sex with her date.

354
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,599
And then all the guys were like
WHOA. And I was like,

355
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:21,039
that is not explicitly expected. But
you can't sit there and pretend that it

356
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:22,599
is not expected of a woman to
have sex with her date at a way

357
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,200
weekend. Is it written anywhere?
No, but that is the expectation.

358
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:30,799
And I know girls that didn't go
on your away weekend because they didn't want

359
00:25:30,799 --> 00:25:33,039
to have sex with their date.
I also know girls that didn't want to

360
00:25:33,039 --> 00:25:34,599
go on my way weekend because they
didn't want to have sex with their date.

361
00:25:34,839 --> 00:25:38,000
I'm saying that my chapter is perfect
in yours isn't. None of us

362
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,839
are perfect, and we just need
to admit that. Don't be like,

363
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,400
oh, my chapter is perfect.
That would never happen in my chapter.

364
00:25:44,519 --> 00:25:47,079
That's literally what he said to me. That would never happen in my chapter.

365
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,119
We would never pressure someone to have
sex with their date. Snap,

366
00:25:52,400 --> 00:26:02,720
it's time to trust my instincts,
close my eyes, and jee, I

367
00:26:02,839 --> 00:26:11,839
think it's time I leave my savorrity. My disaffiliation song is just stuck in

368
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:18,200
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Take a second and think back to
the sex education you had in school.

376
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,599
Did it prepare you to have a
healthy and happy relationship with sex and identity?

377
00:27:03,839 --> 00:27:07,799
If it was anything like mine,
it was stigmatizing, judgmental, and

378
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:12,400
totally unhelpful. But not to worry, the experts are here to offer the

379
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:17,440
sex ed we wish we had Welcome
to sex Said with dB. We're a

380
00:27:17,519 --> 00:27:21,960
feminist podcast and multimedia platform bringing you
all the sex said you never got through

381
00:27:22,079 --> 00:27:29,039
unique and entertaining storytelling centering LGBTQ and
BIPOC experts. We cover an array of

382
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:33,519
sex education topics like abortion, period
management, sex and disability, pleasure,

383
00:27:33,759 --> 00:27:38,920
reproductive justice, healthy relationships, BDSM, birth control, sex in the media,

384
00:27:40,039 --> 00:27:44,519
and so much more. We believe
that everyone deserves comprehensive, inclusive,

385
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:49,119
pleasure centered, medically accurate sex education. Follow along with us as we revolutionize

386
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,559
the way we talk about sex and
tune into sex Ed with dB wherever you

387
00:27:52,680 --> 00:28:06,839
get your podcasts snapped. Let's return
to Margot. We left off as she

388
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:11,920
was on an away weekend in the
middle of nowhere, Pennsylvania. There we'll

389
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,960
find her with no friends and a
date that she doesn't want to hook up

390
00:28:17,039 --> 00:28:22,599
with, and to make matters even
worse, it's about to be her birthday.

391
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:30,039
It's the eve of my birthday,
and we're partying at the senior's house

392
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:37,119
during the day and I definitely am
getting pretty drunk, knocking back mimosas and

393
00:28:37,519 --> 00:28:41,119
whatever I possibly can get my hands
on, and not really eating anything.

394
00:28:41,599 --> 00:28:45,319
I decide that I need to nap, and so I asked my date to

395
00:28:45,599 --> 00:28:52,640
wake me up before midnight so that
I can celebrate my birthday in the party

396
00:28:52,720 --> 00:29:00,240
house with everyone. When the clock
turns to midnight, I wake up from

397
00:29:00,279 --> 00:29:03,960
my nap. I'm groggy as hell. I'm looking around and I don't see

398
00:29:04,079 --> 00:29:08,160
anybody in my room. I look
at my phone. It's twelve thirty a

399
00:29:08,319 --> 00:29:12,599
yem. I missed my birthday and
my date did not wake me up.

400
00:29:14,039 --> 00:29:17,759
I get up. I look around. Everyone in the house is gone.

401
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,279
I'm like, why did I even
come here? What was the point?

402
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:25,000
I'm not with my friends, I
don't know any of these people. But

403
00:29:25,279 --> 00:29:27,480
very quickly, I pull myself up
by my bootstraps and I say, this

404
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,920
is not going to ruin my twentieth
birthday. And I walk alone to the

405
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:37,359
party house, thinking I'm sober.
So I showed up to the party house,

406
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,400
and I'd realized very quickly I wasn't
seeing a single person there who I

407
00:29:41,519 --> 00:29:45,440
knew. Like my date was around, but not really, like he wouldn't

408
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,480
really talk to me. There's just
like an insane amount of alcohol, and

409
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,480
I just started going for it.
I felt like I had to catch up

410
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,640
because the party had been going on
for a couple hours. I think I

411
00:29:55,759 --> 00:29:57,880
just like started grabbing handles. I
don't even think I had a chaser.

412
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:02,680
I just started going for it.
I remember at one point I convinced people

413
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:07,039
to sing a happy Birthday to me, but they're My memory really starts fading

414
00:30:07,119 --> 00:30:15,240
because I just kept drinking and drinking
and happy. I blacked out Happy book.

415
00:30:18,839 --> 00:30:26,279
The next like vague memory is an
ambulance UH coming to get me,

416
00:30:26,519 --> 00:30:30,000
being on a stretcher, and being
put into an ambulance, sent to a

417
00:30:30,039 --> 00:30:52,200
hospital in the middle of nowhere,
Pennsylvania. Bag. I wake up in

418
00:30:52,279 --> 00:30:57,240
the hospital, look up at the
bright white lights, look down at my

419
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:03,240
hand, in which an eye V
is inserted, and my first thought is,

420
00:31:03,839 --> 00:31:07,839
fuck, what did I do?
I look over and I see the

421
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,400
guy who went in the ambulance with
me to the emergency room. He's asleep.

422
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:17,880
I checked my phone, and I
have so many texts, texts from

423
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:22,599
friends who have somehow heard through the
grapevine that I was not okay. My

424
00:31:22,799 --> 00:31:27,319
concern is that I forced these guys
to take care of me. And then,

425
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:33,319
of course I think about my parents, whose insurance I'm on and who

426
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,400
don't know I'm in the middle of
nowhere and the Poconos. My friend wakes

427
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,640
up in the hospital chair. I
start bombarding him with questions, how did

428
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,880
I get here? What happened?
And I am so sorry? I asked

429
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,559
him where my date is. He
tells me my date did not want to

430
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:53,720
go with me and was cursing me
out as the ambulance picked me up.

431
00:31:55,440 --> 00:32:00,440
My phone is kind of messed up
and it's not really working, and I

432
00:32:00,559 --> 00:32:05,640
asked my day to call me an
uber because it's just not working on my

433
00:32:05,759 --> 00:32:08,559
phone. The cost is extremely high. We're in the middle of nowhere,

434
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:15,119
Pennsylvania, and the nearest hospital was
like a forty minute drive away. He

435
00:32:15,279 --> 00:32:20,880
calls me an uber, but while
texting me that he really doesn't want to

436
00:32:21,039 --> 00:32:24,599
and that I should just be calling
one myself, and immediately Venmo requests me.

437
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,599
I keep apologizing to the guy I'm
with, and he keeps telling me

438
00:32:32,279 --> 00:32:38,480
it's okay as long as the frat
doesn't get in trouble. So my guilt

439
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:45,359
and my regret skyrockets. The frat
getting in trouble. I hadn't even thought

440
00:32:45,519 --> 00:32:50,640
of that as a possibility, and
now I'm worried that they're going to be

441
00:32:50,799 --> 00:32:57,160
reported to nationals and get on probation
or somo. I'm not even in Greek

442
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,160
life, but somehow I still know
what the consequences are when a frat gets

443
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:07,039
in trouble. I'm not thinking about
any part they could have played. I'm

444
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:12,440
fully thinking about the way I have
just completely pulled the plug on this frat

445
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,119
and how all of these guys are
gonna hate me forever. I feel nauseous,

446
00:33:16,559 --> 00:33:23,759
I feel anxiety higher than I've ever
felt anxiety before. And it's my

447
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:38,920
twentieth birthday. I go inside and
I realize that my date has left.

448
00:33:39,839 --> 00:33:43,920
Two guys are left in the house, and they tell me to get my

449
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,640
stuff and that my date has made
arrangements that I will be going back with

450
00:33:47,799 --> 00:33:57,839
them. I find my fake ID
on one of the tables, bent in

451
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,960
half. Look at the guy who
went to the er with me, and

452
00:34:01,039 --> 00:34:07,319
I'm like, who did this?
He tells me that my date did it,

453
00:34:07,599 --> 00:34:10,239
and that he wasn't saying nice things
about me, calling me a bitch,

454
00:34:10,519 --> 00:34:15,039
saying how much he regretted taking me. And I see that my date

455
00:34:15,159 --> 00:34:23,360
has poignantly left the flask I made
for him on the table with nothing but

456
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:30,280
a flask is a souvenir. Margot
packed up her shame and rode back to

457
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:46,000
College Park. The week's following away
weekend, I was trying to get answers

458
00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:49,760
because I have no memory of when
I had to go to the hospital,

459
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,880
but no one could really give them
to me either, because everyone was so

460
00:34:52,039 --> 00:34:57,119
fucked up. What happened to me
felt so monumental, but it was normal.

461
00:34:57,199 --> 00:35:00,360
Like I found out the same weekend, in a different away weekend gone

462
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,119
to jail for the frat. It
was just kind of like, oh,

463
00:35:02,159 --> 00:35:05,440
as long as we don't get in
trouble, but this is just kind of

464
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,599
the norm. The guilt was eating
away at me, and so we were

465
00:35:07,639 --> 00:35:12,559
kind of like three guys who had
helped me. Well, my date hadn't

466
00:35:12,559 --> 00:35:14,719
helped me, but I felt like
I needed to make amends with him.

467
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:19,079
So I literally went to the liquor
store, picked up three cases of a

468
00:35:19,159 --> 00:35:23,199
bud light, and borrowed my roommate's
car to drive around to wherever they lived

469
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:28,159
and leave them the beer and like
an apology note, because I felt so

470
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:32,480
much like I had like ruined something. The guy who went to the hospital

471
00:35:32,599 --> 00:35:36,039
with me and was like, Oh, you really don't need to worry about

472
00:35:36,079 --> 00:35:37,440
it, like, thank you,
this is really nice, but like,

473
00:35:37,559 --> 00:35:40,480
don't worry about it. President of
the frat was the other guy who had

474
00:35:40,519 --> 00:35:44,079
been kind of helping me, and
he was just like I can't take that.

475
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:45,800
Like you listen, don't worry about
it, but I like, I

476
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:49,679
can't take this. And I was
like, okay, I mean it cool.

477
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,840
And then with my date, he
just refused to speak to me.

478
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,159
And when I tried to, like
I was like, can I give you

479
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,440
this to give to him, people
were like, I just don't think he

480
00:35:59,559 --> 00:36:02,559
wants it. You know. It
made me feel like shit, no one

481
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:07,400
was checking in about me, so
it felt like I had to check in

482
00:36:07,559 --> 00:36:12,320
on them. Yeah. Literally I
had to check in and make sure they

483
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,880
were okay that I went to the
hospital. I took the next semester off

484
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:20,519
of school. I did not return. I didn't want to see any of

485
00:36:20,599 --> 00:36:23,079
those people because I tied that to
my lowest point, my biggest shame,

486
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:28,360
and my story isn't unique, you
know, like that's a normal thing to

487
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:37,559
happen. Snapped. I invite you
to rally behind Snapped and help amplify the

488
00:36:37,679 --> 00:36:44,159
voices that have been silenced for far
too long. You can support this season

489
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:49,800
of Snapped by buying our merch joining
the Patreon, or donating directly, which

490
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:53,400
you can all do at Snapped the
podcast dot com. Another way to support

491
00:36:53,480 --> 00:37:00,800
this podcast is to spread the word. Snapped is a goddamn independent podcast with

492
00:37:00,119 --> 00:37:06,840
no network backing, So please please
please share snap to your story, send

493
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,800
it around in group chats, and
tell your neighbor. Just tell them.

494
00:37:10,519 --> 00:37:16,320
Greek organizations actively work to silence victims, making it even more crucial that this

495
00:37:16,519 --> 00:37:22,280
podcast reaches a wide audience. And
in order to do that, we need

496
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:27,079
to be as loud and just as
in the P and m's faces as Alpha

497
00:37:27,199 --> 00:37:34,800
fees recruitment music videos Snapped. Let's
return to Lizzie, who we left off

498
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:49,719
an aspen at Mimosas and Molly.
Lord help us all. So Mimosas and

499
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,360
Molly, I was like, I'm
going to pass on this because I'm pretty

500
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:53,519
sure I just did Molly the night
before, and like, I don't want

501
00:37:53,519 --> 00:37:58,480
to lose all of my brains house. My date was like here, like

502
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,320
have this because at this point he
knew everyone knew that there was Malay and

503
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:05,280
the most is this they were saying. So my day it was like here's

504
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,119
like champagne and here's orang juice,
and like you can just have it like

505
00:38:07,199 --> 00:38:09,559
for yourself. So that was that. And then as the day went on,

506
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:13,559
like we know, we're hanging out
at the pool, we're running around

507
00:38:13,639 --> 00:38:15,159
like everyone's kind of doing their own
thing, but like alcohol is just being

508
00:38:15,159 --> 00:38:19,159
passed around the hotel from the third
floor like dropped down to the pool,

509
00:38:19,199 --> 00:38:22,119
and like some girls are like fucked
up. They're passed out there there in

510
00:38:22,199 --> 00:38:25,280
the hotel room sleeping. I'm still
drinking. And as the gay is going

511
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:30,039
on again, my heart started racing. My eyes were like huge, and

512
00:38:30,199 --> 00:38:35,360
I was annoyed, Like I was
like something's going on, and like I

513
00:38:35,519 --> 00:38:38,400
don't want to be having fun,
but I was having fun. Can't help

514
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:44,119
it when the music is coming.
You're in a beautiful chalet in the mountains.

515
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:45,639
Like also, I don't even think
we ate, you know. We'd

516
00:38:45,639 --> 00:38:50,079
get like random like breakfast sandwiches and
they'd be like passed around, and that

517
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:52,039
was really it. And so I
was starving, so I'm like, let's

518
00:38:52,159 --> 00:38:58,000
leave the hotel and get food.
And so we're getting ready to leave,

519
00:38:58,039 --> 00:39:01,119
and that's when I realized, like
I am so fucked up. Right now,

520
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:06,159
like everything was spinning. It was
like the most drunk I've ever felt.

521
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:08,760
And I started like going in and
out of like blackness, and I

522
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:13,039
was thinking about it, like,
honestly, don't think I drank that much.

523
00:39:13,159 --> 00:39:16,000
And I was like blacking in and
out. And so I went to

524
00:39:16,079 --> 00:39:19,360
my date. I'm like, I
don't know what's going on. I'm like,

525
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,079
let's just like can we hang out
people? I don't want to go

526
00:39:22,119 --> 00:39:23,239
back to the room, Like I'm
tired, I'm hungry. Like we go

527
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:27,199
back to the room. It's like
four o'clock, and that's the last thing

528
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:50,960
I remember. I wake up and
I look around. I look next to

529
00:39:51,039 --> 00:39:53,880
me. My date is not near
me, my roommate is nowhere to be

530
00:39:54,039 --> 00:40:00,800
found. I'm wearing nothing. I
take the covers of off to like get

531
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:05,079
up and go to the bathroom and
I feel a pain in my vagina and

532
00:40:05,159 --> 00:40:10,280
I looked down and I'm bleeding.
I have no recollection of what happened the

533
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:15,599
night before. I don't know when
I got here, how I got here.

534
00:40:15,079 --> 00:40:19,119
Obviously, this is my room,
so this is where I'm staying.

535
00:40:19,559 --> 00:40:22,119
But I don't remember going back,
Like there's just so much of the night

536
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:25,840
before that I don't remember. I
go looking through my phone, my snapchats,

537
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:30,480
like there was nothing sent. Texting
my friends like they were in another

538
00:40:30,599 --> 00:40:31,960
room, and like what happened to
me last night? Was I out?

539
00:40:32,119 --> 00:40:37,079
Like what the hell? No response
from them, and I can't on my

540
00:40:37,199 --> 00:40:39,599
day, I'm texting him, calling
him like no response. You know when

541
00:40:39,639 --> 00:40:44,039
you wake up from drinking the next
day and you have that anxiety, You're

542
00:40:44,039 --> 00:40:45,559
like, oh my god, what
I do? Feeling map but like to

543
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:50,239
an extreme because like no one's talking
to me. I'm all alone. I

544
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,039
can't figure it out. I go
to the bathroom, I kind of clean

545
00:40:52,159 --> 00:40:54,599
up. I come back in.
My roommate was there. She was in

546
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:58,599
the room. I was like,
do you know what happened? Like did

547
00:40:58,679 --> 00:41:01,000
I have sex? Like what's going
on? Why am I bleeding? Why

548
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:06,000
am I hurting? She's like I
don't know, like you were fucked up

549
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,719
or like whatever. So I get
my stuff together. It's the last day.

550
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:14,000
Like a change into a bathing suit, go outside, and like literally

551
00:41:14,199 --> 00:41:16,639
everyone's just like staring at me.
I find my date outside. I'm like,

552
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:20,320
what's going on? Dude? We
like hook up last night? Like

553
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,960
I'm bleeding and I'm in pain,
I be like, oh, yeah,

554
00:41:22,039 --> 00:41:24,440
like we had stuffs, like you
don't remember, like you were like so

555
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:28,880
jam Like I was like all right, like why am I bleeding? But

556
00:41:29,079 --> 00:41:31,920
like that's fine. The day is
kind of like going on. No one's

557
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:37,800
really like talking to me. Then
I asked the girls, like what the

558
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:42,000
fuck is going on? And they
were like, oh, you don't remember,

559
00:41:42,159 --> 00:41:51,039
like you had like a threesome.
There's nothing wrong with that doing that,

560
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,000
but it's just not my thing or
like I've never done it. But

561
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:58,960
they didn't say who was with my
roommate's like annoyed with me, I'm like,

562
00:41:59,199 --> 00:42:02,239
did I hook up with my roommate's
boyfriend? Like what's going on in

563
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:07,159
my head? I never went to
like something happened to me, Like it

564
00:42:07,639 --> 00:42:10,440
was just like I did something.
So I'm starting to like go around to

565
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:14,880
my day, like what do we
do? Last night? It changed into

566
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:17,159
like a wee thing. And he
never told me flat out, but I'm

567
00:42:17,159 --> 00:42:22,800
pretty sure that there was Zanex in
the drinks that we were drinking at night,

568
00:42:22,119 --> 00:42:25,559
So it was like a mix of
molly and Dannex and alcohol and weed

569
00:42:25,679 --> 00:42:29,800
and like whatever the fuck, Well, I don't even think all of the

570
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:32,880
guys knew to be completely honest with
you. With that frat the older guys

571
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:37,119
would like put it in to be
like funny, and like the younger guys

572
00:42:37,159 --> 00:42:39,800
would get fucked up if I don't
know that there's Zanex and my drink,

573
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:43,880
like I'm going to be drinking more, you know, Like I don't remember

574
00:42:44,039 --> 00:42:47,239
one part of it. I kind
of just tried to push it to the

575
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:52,440
back of my mind because I was
stuck there as four hours away. I

576
00:42:52,519 --> 00:42:53,960
didn't have my own cars, and
I didn't drink. The rest of the

577
00:42:54,039 --> 00:42:58,039
times we went to like fancy dinner, I didn't drink. Everyone was fucked

578
00:42:58,079 --> 00:43:00,840
up, but I just kind of
laid low. We're about to get into

579
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:06,119
graphic descriptions of sexual assault. If
you'd like to opt out, you can

580
00:43:06,199 --> 00:43:12,960
skip the next thirty five seconds.
I was bleeding the whole time. I

581
00:43:13,199 --> 00:43:16,760
have had sex before, and like
that has never happened still to this day,

582
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:22,079
Like I've never bled like that after
sex. Also, like my vagina

583
00:43:22,199 --> 00:43:27,599
hurts so bad, like to give
ass hurt. Yeah, So there was

584
00:43:27,639 --> 00:43:34,079
like blood coming from both places.
And I had never done like but stuff

585
00:43:34,199 --> 00:43:40,639
before, so you could feel it
like afterwards, oh my gosh. Yeah,

586
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:47,400
And like I had like bruises,
Like yeah, I really didn't think

587
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:52,159
that much of it because I was
more focused at the time on like what

588
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,000
other people thought about me. Because
I wanted to be like liked I wanted

589
00:43:55,079 --> 00:43:59,039
to be in on like the cool
you know. I wanted to go back

590
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:02,400
next year to this away weekend and
like I wanted to be like in this

591
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:07,920
group of like typical Boulder people.
Like that was literally my dream from like

592
00:44:08,119 --> 00:44:13,960
junior year of high school. Like
it caused me so much anxiety thinking about

593
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:17,719
what are these people thinking about me? And like it wasn't even what happened

594
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:21,840
to me, and that should have
been my number one concern, What the

595
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,840
hell happened to me that I woke
up that I was leading and bruised.

596
00:44:25,159 --> 00:44:30,039
It was like, why did I
wake up? And everyone suddenly hates me?

597
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:37,960
But it's a week after away weekend. The whispers are still going on.

598
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,079
They were like, oh, like
that's the threesome girl, or that's

599
00:44:40,079 --> 00:44:44,320
blah blah blahst girl. My friends
didn't really like talk to me. It

600
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:46,000
was like a very weird thing that
I did. And they made a group

601
00:44:46,119 --> 00:44:49,639
chat without me, and they would
go to the frat house without me,

602
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,039
and though I was talking to my
big whole time, she was like,

603
00:44:52,079 --> 00:44:54,320
you have to say something because this
isn't the first time that a girl gets

604
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:59,880
fucked up at this house and forgets
what happened. So my big convinced me

605
00:45:00,119 --> 00:45:04,079
to talk to a president or my
sorority. It was probably like a week

606
00:45:04,199 --> 00:45:09,440
or two afterwards, and I spoke
to the president of the sorority and I

607
00:45:09,679 --> 00:45:14,599
told her, like, I was
at this away weekend and I was drugged

608
00:45:15,039 --> 00:45:19,280
and something happened to me that I
do not remember, and I feel very

609
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:23,440
uncomfortable, not only seeing these people, these guys, but like being on

610
00:45:23,639 --> 00:45:28,599
campus. I wasn't going to my
classes, I wasn't doing work. I

611
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:30,760
was like, this is taking a
toll on me and I have to do

612
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:37,559
something about it. And she told
me, I understand where you're coming from,

613
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:43,000
but we can't go to the frat
or the school and say this because

614
00:45:43,039 --> 00:45:45,960
we're going to be known as the
girls that are like the snitches, because

615
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,920
obviously it's going to come back to
us, and like because they know that

616
00:45:49,039 --> 00:45:52,239
it was you, so it's obviously
you that would be the ones snitching,

617
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:53,840
and we don't want to be the
rats. And like we don't want to

618
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:58,760
ruin it for everyone. And I
was like, I'm not snitching on anyone.

619
00:45:59,159 --> 00:46:02,400
I'm just raising a concern. She's
like, if they get shut down,

620
00:46:02,519 --> 00:46:06,199
where are we going to do tail
it? It's like I ended up

621
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:10,280
going to the bould or a counseling
center. The lady at the counseling office

622
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:14,000
was like, oh, like you
don't know the who was or like what

623
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:16,239
happened? So like how do you
even know that this happened, which was

624
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:21,559
weird coming from a person that works
for the school. But she was like

625
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,159
young, she probably went there,
which probably wasn't a sorority. Yeah,

626
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:29,039
there's a lot of like weird ties
or oh my dad was in a friend

627
00:46:29,079 --> 00:46:31,280
and like he would never do anything
like that, So that fred guys are

628
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:36,199
and what you think? It's very
weird and it's you have to be careful

629
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,480
who you're like telling these things too, because then you become like the bronk

630
00:46:39,639 --> 00:46:43,960
bitch you got fucked up, it
had a threesome and doesn't remember it,

631
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,960
and it's now claiming that, like
you know, it very quickly turned on

632
00:46:47,079 --> 00:46:51,920
you. So if I can't even
talk to like my so called sisters about

633
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:58,559
this or even the fucking school therapist, Like I can't trust anybody. I

634
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:02,360
felt very like stupid, so I
kind of just like held off on like

635
00:47:02,519 --> 00:47:07,840
doing anything. Also, it was
during finals week. We're all dealing with

636
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:09,559
finals right now. Then we're going
home for a month, Like people will

637
00:47:09,599 --> 00:47:14,039
forget about it. It'll be fun. So I go home for winter break.

638
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:17,639
I don't tell anyone what happens,
and I just kind of go about

639
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:24,960
my winter break. It's the start
of a new semester. In my head.

640
00:47:25,119 --> 00:47:29,039
Everyone forgot what happened. So when
I get off the plane, I

641
00:47:29,199 --> 00:47:31,840
dropped my stuff in my room and
I head straight to the jardi. Everyone's

642
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:36,880
already fucked up, and so I
just start drinking. I catch up with

643
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,039
all my friends. Like the guy
that I went with, K can you

644
00:47:39,119 --> 00:47:42,440
watch me? He's like, hey, you know, we're like talking.

645
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:45,840
We've kind of started like cooking up. I just liked him, like he

646
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,840
was hot and like it was whatever. We had a good time besides that,

647
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:51,679
and we're like cooking up in the
front yard and whenever guys are like,

648
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:57,760
you know, like oh nex,
like who's on joining them or like

649
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:05,440
whatever. A study published in nineteen
ninety one found that fifty five percent of

650
00:48:05,639 --> 00:48:12,000
campus gang rapes were perpetrated by fraternity
members. I'd like to share a clip

651
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:17,280
from my interview with Max. Max
is a former fraternity member from the University

652
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:24,960
of Maryland. Some of the guys
they like ran a train on these two

653
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:30,400
girls. It basically means that they
like like all fucked these girls. Like

654
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:32,480
the girls came back with two of
the guys and then they were like having

655
00:48:32,599 --> 00:48:37,039
sex and then they like subbed in
another guy. Like one of them left

656
00:48:37,079 --> 00:48:40,559
the room to go to the bathroom, another guy came back in in his

657
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:44,679
place, and the girls were kind
of like, oh wait, like you're

658
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:47,840
someone different, and they'd be like
no, like don't worry about it,

659
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:52,519
but yeah, and then they were
like just trying to like get the homies

660
00:48:52,559 --> 00:48:54,039
in on it. It was like
like oh sho, were like running a

661
00:48:54,119 --> 00:48:57,719
train and like, I don't know
how many dudes I ended up actually like

662
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:00,679
going in there, think maybe like
four' I don't know. Brothers who did

663
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:05,719
this like took pride in that,
you know, and they liked that they

664
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,599
could now say that they were part
of a gang bang and like they used

665
00:49:08,639 --> 00:49:13,559
it as something, you know,
to build their like status or their reputation,

666
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:20,360
and they thought it was the coolest
fucking thing that they essentially raped these

667
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:29,280
women. So I went back to
the counselor's office. I requested a new

668
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:31,679
counselor. She was older, and
I was like, I need to report

669
00:49:32,039 --> 00:49:37,960
a sexual like encounter that happened at
this stratus. And I wasn't like saying

670
00:49:37,119 --> 00:49:42,800
that I was like raped or whatever, but there was a sexual encounter that

671
00:49:43,159 --> 00:49:45,599
I got hurt from. Honestly,
I was bruised and I was bleeding.

672
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:49,519
I don't know what happened. I
don't remember. I need to report it.

673
00:49:49,559 --> 00:49:51,480
But she was like, well,
there's not much like we could do

674
00:49:51,679 --> 00:49:54,199
off one report, blah blah blah. I'm like, this can't be the

675
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:57,880
one report. So I go back
to my sorority house. I'm like,

676
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:00,159
I just reported this. I don't
care what you think. I'll disaffiliate if

677
00:50:00,199 --> 00:50:04,039
you guys want me to, Like, I just need something to happen.

678
00:50:04,679 --> 00:50:08,239
If you guys know anyone that also
experienced because you guys told me that you

679
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:12,920
know other girls that had the same
issues. Yes, we want to go

680
00:50:13,039 --> 00:50:15,000
to these parties, but like,
do we want to get like drugged and

681
00:50:15,159 --> 00:50:19,679
like taking advantage of no so I
was like trying to rally, and all

682
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:22,639
the girls were like no, like
they just were like, we don't want

683
00:50:22,679 --> 00:50:24,519
to be known as the girls that
are like the lightweight girls, and they

684
00:50:24,559 --> 00:50:30,280
didn't want their reputation to be like
quote unquote ruined for like this one girl

685
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:34,559
got drunk and like fucked up.
The president of my sorority kind of just

686
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:38,119
like hushed everyone. You know,
she put it in their heads that if

687
00:50:38,159 --> 00:50:42,800
you do this, you're going to
be the snitch. Was never like we

688
00:50:43,559 --> 00:50:45,880
know other girls that this happened too, and here, let me put you

689
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:50,880
in touch with them, or let's
all get together and like tell the school

690
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:53,320
that there's not just one girl,
there's not just two girls. It's not

691
00:50:53,440 --> 00:51:00,920
just our sorority. But that never
happened. No, lady, as a

692
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,639
whole, I knew that this was
going on, and it was just like

693
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:07,480
an unspoken thing that happened, and
like, oh, be careful around like

694
00:51:07,639 --> 00:51:10,440
this frat or when you're doing this, or like never be alone or never

695
00:51:10,599 --> 00:51:15,000
go to this room or never talk
to this guy. I realized them like

696
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:19,320
if I stayed, I would either
be dead from like a drug overdose or

697
00:51:19,519 --> 00:51:22,480
something bad was going to happen to
make and I just knew, like it

698
00:51:22,599 --> 00:51:27,199
was a waste of money. I
had to just leave. So I disaffiliated

699
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:30,559
from the sorority me and I'm Big
at the same time, And within like

700
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:34,800
ten minutes, I received an email
back from them, like confirming that I

701
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:37,440
was out. They were so quick
to be like all right, like you're

702
00:51:37,519 --> 00:51:39,000
out. You can deal with your
problem on your own. But they were

703
00:51:39,079 --> 00:51:43,079
not there to back me up,
which I thought that was the whole point

704
00:51:43,119 --> 00:51:46,000
of like sisterhood, like to be
there for each other. That's what you

705
00:51:46,039 --> 00:51:50,559
were being told during rush. Yeah, like these girls are here for you

706
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:54,199
for everything, Like it's all a
lie, It is all a lot.

707
00:51:54,599 --> 00:51:58,480
At the time, I hated myself. I'm like this sucks. I'm a

708
00:51:58,599 --> 00:52:01,039
loser, Like everyone eats me,
Like I fucked up. I thought it

709
00:52:01,159 --> 00:52:05,400
was my fault, you know,
like I did something or I drank too

710
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:10,000
much to cause this reaction from people. And like the fact that I still

711
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:16,760
almost five years later, don't know, like what happened is very concerning to

712
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:22,000
me. Like regardless of what I
was doing that night or the night before

713
00:52:22,199 --> 00:52:27,000
that I had hooked up with my
date, it was not a consensual thing

714
00:52:27,079 --> 00:52:31,440
that happened. Whatever happened was not
consensual. I was fucked up. I

715
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:37,840
didn't know what I was doing.
I didn't know what was even happening to

716
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:42,400
me. The fact that it happened
and I can't remember what happened, like,

717
00:52:42,599 --> 00:52:46,400
that's not sent Regardless if I said
yes at the time, I was

718
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:51,559
not in the right mindset to say
that, and it shouldn't have happened.

719
00:52:52,199 --> 00:52:58,079
It was like within the withdrawal period
of my classes that I like withdrew from

720
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:01,920
classes. I just affiliated from my
stority and I came home for good.

721
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:12,800
Snapped. For Lizzie's full length interview. Head to patreon dot com slash snapped.

722
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:15,800
Join the Patreon at the jed level
and you'll have access to all the

723
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:22,400
full interviews that I post from this
season. That's Patreon dot com slash Snapped.

724
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:30,320
Lizzie did not return to Boulder.
She took a semester off and then

725
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:37,320
transferred to a school in New York. So let's get this straight. While

726
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:51,239
Margot took time off from school and
Lizzie transferred, the frats just carried on

727
00:53:51,519 --> 00:54:00,199
with their extracurricular binge drinking activities.
You learn almost right away that the sorority's

728
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:07,360
relationship with fraternities should be prioritized above
all personal concerns you may face in the

729
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:13,679
process. When harm is inflicted upon
the victim and they choose not to prioritize

730
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:19,360
greek life over their own trauma,
they've become a liability for what the frat

731
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:25,199
has done, and the liabilities get
weeded out through a systemic process of victimization,

732
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:31,800
alienation, and disaffiliation, because ultimately, no sorority wants to look bad,

733
00:54:32,119 --> 00:54:37,039
and what looks worse than snitching on
a frat, even when you're roofied,

734
00:54:37,679 --> 00:54:44,519
even when you're raped, you're not
just representing yourself, You're representing the

735
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:52,400
entire chapter. You all know Margaret
Freeman by now, you know the cultural

736
00:54:52,519 --> 00:54:58,360
historian who has been providing historical context
throughout the season. In my interview with

737
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:02,360
Freeman, I ask if subrity women's
safety ever came up in her research.

738
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:07,800
This was her response. By the
nineteen fifties. In nineteen sixties, you

739
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:13,559
start to see greater concern over women's
students drinking. You have campus administrators and

740
00:55:13,599 --> 00:55:19,199
advisory committees for campus greek life suggesting
concerns for women's safety, and this,

741
00:55:19,599 --> 00:55:24,840
of course is also tied up with
these concerns over women's inability to or failure

742
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:30,519
to maintain what are seems conventional standards
of behavior for white middle class women.

743
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:36,119
Right. You know, they're supposed
to be feminine and alluring but not sexual

744
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:40,119
in any way. And the fear
here is that drinking leads to lapses in

745
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:45,840
quote unquote moral judgment, where women
are then at risk of sexual assault and

746
00:55:45,039 --> 00:55:50,480
rape by well, primarily their male
fraternity counterparts. But they wouldn't really say

747
00:55:50,519 --> 00:55:53,280
that often just bad men, men
who are not of your peer group.

748
00:55:54,199 --> 00:55:59,559
But but then, of course,
because the sexual double standard, the understanding

749
00:55:59,599 --> 00:56:05,400
here is that the women should be
the ones who are responsible for keeping those

750
00:56:05,519 --> 00:56:08,519
forms of violence from happening to them, right. The idea here seems to

751
00:56:08,599 --> 00:56:15,119
be that if the women aren't drinking, or at least aren't drunk, they

752
00:56:15,159 --> 00:56:19,159
can somehow maintain propriety for all and
keep everyone out of trouble. So it's

753
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:22,920
it's always on the women, right. So the women are drinking and hanging

754
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:29,119
out with fraternity men at campus parties
and tailgates and off campus dances and beach

755
00:56:29,199 --> 00:56:32,159
trips because they enjoy it, right, I mean, you know, even

756
00:56:32,159 --> 00:56:36,559
if they don't all enjoy the drinking, and some, I'm sure do you

757
00:56:36,639 --> 00:56:38,440
know, they still may see that
as part of the fun and part of

758
00:56:38,519 --> 00:56:44,119
the expected social dance that they have
to do to gain a boyfriend or a

759
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:50,960
husband, or just be popular.
In Freeman's book Women of Discriminating Taste,

760
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:58,559
Freeman says that sororities required their members
to participate in hetero social situations for the

761
00:56:58,639 --> 00:57:05,480
good of the entire organization's image,
but problematically wanted the individual woman to earn

762
00:57:05,599 --> 00:57:10,960
responsibility for what happened once they were
there. Michaela, a former zeta from

763
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:16,559
Stston University, told me how a
bunch of members, including herself, were

764
00:57:16,719 --> 00:57:22,400
roofied at a frat party classic.
This is how the president of the sorority

765
00:57:22,559 --> 00:57:29,800
reacted. Our president was in form
of this event, she knew what fraternity

766
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:35,280
it was, and we had intramural
flag football with them that semester and no

767
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:39,239
one was knowing that no one wanted
to play. We got a lecture from

768
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:45,719
our president who knew we were drugged, and she gave us a lecture on

769
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:49,320
how we need to show up to
events with this fraternity because they do so

770
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:58,280
much for us. To quote myself
from Season one. If Sisterhood isn't about

771
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:04,639
coming together to support one another and
make every woman feel safe, then what

772
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:10,880
is it about. It seems that
the Brotherhood does a great job at protecting

773
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:17,960
each other at all costs, while
the Sisterhood values being popular, which in

774
00:58:19,119 --> 00:58:25,400
sorority world means being accepted and approved
of by the brotherhood at all costs.

775
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:34,000
Our last interview in this episode is
going to be with someone who we're going

776
00:58:34,119 --> 00:58:40,159
to call Gemma. Gemma is a
former sister from George Washington University. We

777
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:45,519
spoke with her earlier this season about
being the VP of Recruitment. I was

778
00:58:46,039 --> 00:58:52,800
a super active member of my sorority
and then I was assaulted by a member

779
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:55,880
of a top tier frat. I
went to my friends and they were super

780
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:59,719
supportive, but they were like,
if you want something to be done about

781
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:02,840
it, should go to our sorority, especially because I am on exact So

782
00:59:04,119 --> 00:59:08,639
I went to our Diversity and Inclusion
chair because she also like runs the sexual

783
00:59:08,639 --> 00:59:14,119
assault awareness section or whatever. We
came up with a plan, I guess

784
00:59:14,159 --> 00:59:17,159
you would say, just to like
report it anonymously to the school. I

785
00:59:17,199 --> 00:59:22,320
didn't want my name attached to it. And then she told me you could

786
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:27,079
go to our standards chair, like
she might know something to do with like

787
00:59:27,159 --> 00:59:30,880
standards for his frat. So I
told our standards chair what happened, and

788
00:59:31,119 --> 00:59:35,920
she was essentially like, oh my
god, that's so heartbreaking, but I

789
00:59:36,039 --> 00:59:38,119
have to tell the president. And
I was like, no, I just

790
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:42,559
want this to stay between us,
like it's very personal. I don't want

791
00:59:42,559 --> 00:59:45,199
a ton of people knowing. I
just want this guy to be out.

792
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:50,599
And she was like, unfortunately,
because of my manual and like my rules,

793
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:52,679
I have to tell the president.
So I had to have a conversation

794
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:58,159
with the president about what happened to
me, and the President told me she

795
00:59:58,559 --> 01:00:02,880
had to tell the alumni and nationals, and I asked her to keep my

796
01:00:04,039 --> 01:00:08,960
name anonymous, and she did not. She called nationals and they only have

797
01:00:09,199 --> 01:00:14,639
one question, and it was whether
or not I was following COVID guidelines when

798
01:00:14,679 --> 01:00:22,079
I was assaulted. So I called
a meeting with all of exact basically being

799
01:00:22,119 --> 01:00:24,760
like, we're going to talk about
this, and I just want to figure

800
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:29,559
out a solution to what we can
do. They just didn't want to do

801
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:34,440
anything because they thought it was a
problem that they just didn't want the sorority

802
01:00:34,559 --> 01:00:37,119
to be associated with, and me
and the Diversity Chair were just saying,

803
01:00:37,159 --> 01:00:43,280
like, these policies are outdated,
like not everyone who gets assaulted wants absolutely

804
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:45,519
everyone to know about it, and
if people want people to know about it,

805
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:49,840
it should be their choice. And
essentially they were like, I think

806
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:52,519
that's such an amazing point that you
could bring up to nationals. Me and

807
01:00:52,559 --> 01:00:57,599
the diversity Chair, We're basically like, what we want to do is send

808
01:00:57,639 --> 01:01:02,320
out an email as like an executive
board to the President of IFC and basically

809
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:07,559
be like, this is what happened
to one of our sisters and we will

810
01:01:07,639 --> 01:01:12,719
no longer support you unless he's out. And in the meeting everyone was so

811
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:15,480
supportive and being like, oh my
god, absolutely I'll support you on this,

812
01:01:15,719 --> 01:01:19,039
like I'll put my name on the
email. I think this is so

813
01:01:19,199 --> 01:01:22,760
important. And so I came out
of it and I was like, okay,

814
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:25,519
like that went well, Like I'm
glad that something is actually going to

815
01:01:25,599 --> 01:01:30,199
happen. It's happening on my terms. And then it was literally fifteen minutes

816
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:34,119
after the meeting was over and we
all decided that we were going to send

817
01:01:34,159 --> 01:01:37,960
this email and it was going to
be great. The President asks to face

818
01:01:38,079 --> 01:01:43,519
time, me and the diversity chair, and she said she talked to her

819
01:01:43,679 --> 01:01:46,639
dad about it, and she no
longer wanted my sorority to be a part

820
01:01:46,719 --> 01:01:53,159
of it because it would ruin our
reputation and there could be legal consequences.

821
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:59,159
She said, the diversity chair starts
getting text from people being like, I

822
01:01:59,239 --> 01:02:02,159
don't want my name on the email
anymore. Actually, and it was because

823
01:02:02,199 --> 01:02:07,280
the president was going through everyone on
exact and face timing them and telling them

824
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:10,960
that she was taking her name off
the email because it would ruin our reputation.

825
01:02:15,559 --> 01:02:21,320
So one by one she got everyone
on exac to say like, I

826
01:02:21,360 --> 01:02:27,400
don't want to be on the email. Me and the diversity chair face timed

827
01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:30,519
her. And then I said,
like, it feels like you're viewing me

828
01:02:30,719 --> 01:02:34,079
is nothing but a pr risk.
And then she said, no, of

829
01:02:34,199 --> 01:02:37,599
course I care, like you're my
sister. I care about you so much.

830
01:02:37,119 --> 01:02:40,800
Like it's just as president, I
have to do certain things and they're

831
01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:53,559
not necessarily the things I always want
to do. The scariest thing about it

832
01:02:54,079 --> 01:03:00,320
was seeing everyone send me these long
paragraphs basically saying like I feel horrible doing

833
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:06,480
this. It doesn't feel right,
but I'm being told that this isn't what's

834
01:03:06,559 --> 01:03:09,320
right for the sorority. So I
can't do this for you, but let

835
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:15,920
me know if I can do anything
else. I wonder if the president talked

836
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:22,519
to her dad or talked to alumni. That's something that I wonder a lot

837
01:03:22,599 --> 01:03:34,159
too. And this is not the
first time that something like this has happened.

838
01:03:34,599 --> 01:03:38,000
Which was one of the scariest things
to me. Also was hearing from

839
01:03:38,119 --> 01:03:42,000
like my grand big and like my
great grand big, like, oh,

840
01:03:42,119 --> 01:03:45,519
this happened my year. It feels
like in the moment for me, it

841
01:03:45,599 --> 01:03:47,760
felt like I was like the first
person this has ever happened too. It's

842
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:52,639
like, no, this happens like
at least once a year. The sorority

843
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:55,719
tries as hard as it can to
keep it under wraps. But what you

844
01:03:55,760 --> 01:04:00,599
were saying about, like whether it
was her dad or alumni. After everything

845
01:04:00,679 --> 01:04:06,840
that happened that night, the president's
alumni counterpart reached out to the diversity chair

846
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:12,280
and asked to speak about it with
her with the president alongside her, because

847
01:04:12,679 --> 01:04:15,039
the diversity chair was basically just saying
like I don't think you guys understand,

848
01:04:15,159 --> 01:04:21,760
like you just isolated a victim of
sexual assault, and the alumni counterpart said

849
01:04:23,239 --> 01:04:29,599
something like, we're not vigilantes.
He deserves to speak for himself and he

850
01:04:29,719 --> 01:04:32,880
has no one defending him. And
she also said stuff like we're here for

851
01:04:33,039 --> 01:04:39,800
emotional support. We're not here to
ruin someone's life. Most of my friends

852
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:43,679
are involved in Greek life, Like, if my friends are in my sorority,

853
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:46,920
they're in another sorority. And the
general consensus that I've gotten from them

854
01:04:47,039 --> 01:04:50,079
is like, oh, this would
never happen in my chapter. My chapter

855
01:04:50,159 --> 01:04:56,360
would have supported you. And it's
just like the lack of understanding that it's

856
01:04:56,519 --> 01:05:01,320
not a specific issue within a specific
chapter. This is something that happened all

857
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:06,840
the time. After everything happened,
I basically said, like, what would

858
01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:12,840
really make me feel better if there
was actually any sort of change to make

859
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:17,280
sure that this didn't happen again.
The change that happened was everyone on the

860
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:23,960
executive board is now required to go
to one Title nine training when they start

861
01:05:24,039 --> 01:05:27,400
their term. And then I think
the funniest thing that happened out of that

862
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:31,679
is because of the Title nine trainings, we one chapter of the year.

863
01:06:00,199 --> 01:06:03,960
I wonder how many other experiences of
rape have been swept under the rug and

864
01:06:04,159 --> 01:06:12,360
handled internally within the sorority chapter.
Margaret Freeman found little evidence of past sexual

865
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:17,000
assault allegations in her research, but
she also questioned how there would be evidence

866
01:06:17,079 --> 01:06:23,920
of something that's barely reported. If
it's handled internally within the sorority before it

867
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:28,039
can get out to anyone else,
how is there going to be any record

868
01:06:28,119 --> 01:06:32,119
of it. We know that the
sorority is certainly not keeping record, and

869
01:06:32,239 --> 01:06:38,400
in fact they're probably ripping any record
up that they might have. They probably

870
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:44,559
have a fucking shredder. However,
we know that two million students are sexually

871
01:06:44,599 --> 01:06:49,599
assaulted each year. If it's not
swept under the rug, you can report

872
01:06:49,679 --> 01:06:57,000
it to your school's Title nine office
or the police. Remember Elena from earlier

873
01:06:57,119 --> 01:07:00,320
this episode, who was roofied at
Babe in a Bottle. Well, Alida

874
01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:05,880
was also in charge of the Title
nine Student Advisory Board at UMD. The

875
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:11,159
Title nine in the university will do
everything that they can to not take action,

876
01:07:11,480 --> 01:07:14,360
which I don't understand because in the
same breath that they will tell people

877
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:15,679
in Greek life, you can then
do these things. You can't have away

878
01:07:15,719 --> 01:07:17,960
weekends, you can't do this,
you can't do that, they will then

879
01:07:18,039 --> 01:07:23,280
turn around and not hold anybody accountable
for doing any of those things or anything

880
01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:26,039
that happens is a part of those
things. But then something happens and in

881
01:07:26,079 --> 01:07:29,079
a way weekend, a frat covers
up something that happens in the way weekend,

882
01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:30,880
and then they're like, well,
we can't hold them accountable because away

883
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:35,199
weekend, Like that's not us,
And it's like, how are you deterring

884
01:07:35,239 --> 01:07:39,920
them from doing that then? Because
the thing is that all the fraternity is

885
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:43,840
all the sororities now and all of
the administration knows too, like they know,

886
01:07:44,159 --> 01:07:47,679
but Title nine at our university is
focused on compliance. They're worried about

887
01:07:47,719 --> 01:07:51,079
getting sued. They don't care about
students. I got into an argument with

888
01:07:51,519 --> 01:07:55,760
General Counsel, which is the university's
lawyer, where basically I was like,

889
01:07:55,840 --> 01:07:59,880
you know, the new Title nine
regulations were dropping on a federal level,

890
01:08:00,079 --> 01:08:02,440
and you know, I said,
we need to worry about how survivors are

891
01:08:02,559 --> 01:08:06,440
going to get supported throughout this process
as these changes come in, and he

892
01:08:06,559 --> 01:08:10,400
was like, well, anything that
we do to support them is going to

893
01:08:10,440 --> 01:08:14,239
skew the process. We can't do
anything. It's not on us because we're

894
01:08:14,239 --> 01:08:15,520
going to get sued and then the
person is going to be able to come

895
01:08:15,560 --> 01:08:17,840
back to the school and all this
stuff. But I mean, the reality

896
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:21,479
is that people don't get expelled even
if they are found responsible. I mean,

897
01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:27,239
only ten people have ever been expelled
from our university for rape, and

898
01:08:27,319 --> 01:08:30,840
there are a lot more people than
that who have been found responsible for that.

899
01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:33,279
You get the same story over and
over. This is something that happened

900
01:08:33,680 --> 01:08:38,560
all the time. My story isn't
unique, like that's a normal thing to

901
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:43,359
happen, because the same thing happened
to all of these people because the system

902
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:45,560
is set up that way. That's
how the system is. The system is

903
01:08:45,560 --> 01:08:50,680
set up to enable people to do
certain things. Okay, so quick recap.

904
01:08:53,039 --> 01:08:58,680
Title nine is worried about getting sued. The frats are worried about getting

905
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:06,600
caught, and the sororities are worried
about being known as the snitches, you

906
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:14,840
know who. I'm worried about the
fucking survivors of all this bullshit. And

907
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:18,079
that's why I'd like to end this
episode by introducing you all to a resource

908
01:09:18,399 --> 01:09:26,479
that I want spread like wildfire.
This is not sponsored. Callisto is a

909
01:09:26,600 --> 01:09:33,680
nonprofit organization that provides a trauma informed
alternative to reporting. Callisto notes that over

910
01:09:33,880 --> 01:09:41,399
ninety percent of campus sexual assaults are
committed by repeat offenders. They also note

911
01:09:41,560 --> 01:09:48,560
that only six percent of student survivors
decide to report. That's why Callisto's proprietary

912
01:09:48,680 --> 01:09:56,920
system, Callisto Vault, is so
valuable. Callisto Vault includes a matching system

913
01:09:57,319 --> 01:10:02,000
where survivors can safely determine whether other
have been harmed by the same perpetrator without

914
01:10:02,119 --> 01:10:09,960
having to publicly disclose or report to
authorities. Callisto Vault keeps data secure while

915
01:10:10,079 --> 01:10:16,079
protecting the identities of both survivors and
identified perpetrators. To enter into matching,

916
01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:20,560
all you have to do is provide
the state where the assault took place and

917
01:10:20,720 --> 01:10:27,359
a unique identifier of the perpetrator,
such as an Instagram user name. If

918
01:10:27,479 --> 01:10:32,359
two or more survivors identify the same
offender, a match occurs and all matched

919
01:10:32,439 --> 01:10:41,920
survivors receive free and confidential legal options
counseling. Survivors can also create a secure

920
01:10:42,039 --> 01:10:47,159
and timestamped record of their assault using
Callisto vault ENCRYPTID record form. This can

921
01:10:47,279 --> 01:10:54,319
help process trauma or serve as a
reference should they choose to report. To

922
01:10:54,479 --> 01:11:00,000
learn more, head to Project Callisto
dot org or check them out on Instagram.

923
01:11:00,039 --> 01:11:06,039
AM at Calisto. That's at c
A L L I S t O.

924
01:11:08,960 --> 01:11:14,039
Numerous studies have found that men who
joined fraternities are three times more likely

925
01:11:14,199 --> 01:11:19,760
to rape, women in sororities are
seventy four percent more likely to experience rape

926
01:11:20,079 --> 01:11:26,279
than other college women, and one
in five women will be sexually assaulted in

927
01:11:26,399 --> 01:11:30,640
their time at college. So I
think it's time we team the fuck up

928
01:11:31,840 --> 01:11:40,920
and see if we get a match
snapped. If you're feeling ready to listen

929
01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:45,039
to next week's episode, I got
you, Join the Snapped Patreon at the

930
01:11:45,119 --> 01:11:53,000
Dismantler level and you'll get exclusive access
to next week's episode through our dismantler only

931
01:11:53,199 --> 01:12:03,439
podcast feed. Become a Dismantler today
at Patreon dot com slash snapped. All

932
01:12:03,560 --> 01:12:10,520
right, everybody, you know what
time it is? Chapter announcements. Yeah,

933
01:12:11,359 --> 01:12:15,720
as you all know, elections are
coming up next week. It was

934
01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:19,479
so disappointing when forty four of you
showed up to our tailgate meeting, but

935
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:24,319
only ten of you showed up to
our Q and A about exact positions.

936
01:12:25,279 --> 01:12:29,159
So since most of you missed it, I'll tell you now that PHA is

937
01:12:29,279 --> 01:12:35,279
officially requiring all chapters to create the
position of diversity share. It's really important

938
01:12:35,319 --> 01:12:39,720
that you all apply because one of
us is going to have to do it.

939
01:12:40,720 --> 01:12:45,720
There are absolutely no requirements necessary to
apply, and this is an amazing

940
01:12:45,840 --> 01:12:49,520
way to get involved with the chapter. All letters of intent should be sent

941
01:12:49,640 --> 01:12:56,960
to Alpha Fie Elections at gmail dot
com by Sunday night. Latest. Also

942
01:12:57,079 --> 01:13:01,319
note that next week's chapter is going
to be super We're important because we're going

943
01:13:01,399 --> 01:13:09,079
to be joined by our alumna advisors. Please remember not to bring up anything

944
01:13:09,119 --> 01:13:17,279
about drinking or socials while they're here. Love you all so so much and

945
01:13:17,640 --> 01:13:26,600
I can't wait to show them what
an incredible sisterly chapter we are. Who

946
01:13:26,720 --> 01:13:32,600
knows, maybe we'll even win Chapter
of the Year. Doesn't seem that hard.

947
01:13:44,119 --> 01:13:47,880
This episode was written, recorded,
produced, and edited by myself,

948
01:13:48,439 --> 01:14:01,960
Lucy Taylor, Production supervisor, Megan
Thompson, Audio engineer Kneel Goatlia. Special

949
01:14:02,079 --> 01:14:06,159
thank you to Margaret Freeman, whose
work you can find at Margaret Lfreeman dot

950
01:14:06,199 --> 01:14:12,520
com. Stay in the loop with
Snapped by following us on Instagram and TikTok

951
01:14:13,119 --> 01:14:17,199
at Snaps the Podcast. You can
also join our email list at Snaps the

952
01:14:17,279 --> 01:14:23,359
podcast dot com. Thank you so
much, for listening to this episode,

953
01:14:23,680 --> 01:14:28,760
and I'll see you next Wednesday for
another episode of Snapped.