Hello, there, everybody, and I am here with Adam Turrell of Third
Window Films. Adam, I'm so thankful that you're doing this. Third Window
has been special for me for a long time, so thank you for taking
the time to step in and talk about you guys, Thanks for having me
on and for loving or liking at least for the label. Third Window Films
has done a lot over the years. First of all, you guys have
been around a lot longer than people think you were. What are we at,
like sixteen seventeen or something like that. I stopped in two thousand.
I started acquiring in two thousand and five, but my first release was two
thousand and seven, So yes, I've been releasing for more than fifteen years,
but around for seventeen. You know when I did there, It was
the fifteenth anniversary of the first release a few weeks ago, and I really
forgotten when I'm looking back at it, quite apalgic. But yeah, it
has been a long time, and not only has you know, the industry
seen a lot of changes, the trends of releases seen a lot of changes,
but you, personally, I'm sure, have seen a lot of changes
in the last fifteen years. You recently just moved and now you're in Japan.
Correct. Actually, I've been in Japan since for about nearly ten years.
I moved over to work on a film called The Land of Hope,
a film, and since that allowed me to sort of get a visa and
get a foothold here, and for the first few years I was half and
half. But really for the last seven eight years I've been here full time
and I don't think I could go back to England, to be honest,
that's fantastic. I mean, if you love it that much, I'm certainly
jealous. I've wanted to make my way out there for quite some time,
and I've got young kids, which makes it. A couple of people will
think that makes it like twice as difficult. It's actually like ten times as
difficult. The stuff that you guys put out is there like a definition of
what you try to say. Third Window Films tries to distribute to the world.
Basically, I've been just trying to release films that aren't getting released for
one reason or another, mainly because they're probably not that commercial or they're not
that popular. And you know, there's a lot of Japanese films I think
people really don't truly understand how many films are made here each year. For
a country of which films don't go overseas, there's about six hundred films made
every year and only really like a small handful of them get overseas. So
there's a lot, I mean, to be honest, there's a lot of
crap, But there's a lot of crap everywhere in American Independent cinema has its
pitfalls as well. But you know, I just try to do my best
about getting as many films that I like and aren't getting at the light of
day and getting them out there? Am I right in remembering that third windows
pretty much? All you yes? And that's the only way that I've been
able to do what I'm able to do. I think if I had staff
in an office and all that, then you know, there'd be these overheads
and then you have to start thinking, you know, in a business minded
sense, and that I'm not terribly business minded and I'm awful at delegating.
So maybe it just became me because I'm quite stubborn in that way. But
it also I think helps with being able to get these tiny Japanese films out
there and also being able to speak Japanese and do a lot of the work
behind the scenes like the subtitling and the shooting. The bonus features myself and
editing and doing all the layouts for the artwork and all that. And over
the years it's become yes, just just it always was me. But initially
I used to source some jobs, and now I try to do everything as
much as possible by myself in my little Tokyo Obamas. That is beyond impressive.
I mean, the amount of work that it takes to do some of
these, especially in the last year you guys have it seems like made an
effort to put out some some I hate to use the word bigger titles,
but they're more they're more like mainstream to capture some new viewers, it appears,
And I mean the the effort. That's something I was gonna talk about
this one later, but something like this that you guys put out that that
has to take a lot from you. Yeah, but that's not really getting
any new viewers, to be honest. I mean, there's that's that's more
of a passion project because I really wanted to help the director because he's had
so many troubles in the past. Japan was quite strict on any criminal offensive
offenses, and their idea of a criminal offense is quite stricter than maybe Western.
So he's had some problems with like tiny amounts of marijuana in the past
or something that's had him blacklisted. And I've always liked him as a person
as a filmmaker, so I put the extra effort in to promote him and
to keep his name alive, because you know, I think without having films
out on a physical format, there is even if they're only selling small amounts.
You know, in ten years time will that have It's like a tree
falls in the woods. You know, if it isn't out there and a
lot and in people's hands, then in ten years time it could be forgotten.
And that's the same for all directors, if their work is not out
there in people's hands, in people's houses, whether or not they constantly watched
them or not. You know, I think it's for the sake of the
future. It's really important. So the Toyota's things were more just a yes,
a passion of love, and you know, all the hours put into
it wasn't that hard. Because I'm quite friends with him, so I go
to it. We go, he comes to my house and we we put
my computer on it, which just record the audio commentary into into my computer
as it is. So it's obviously the subtitling at takes time, but you
know it's it's yeah, just to help him out as much as possible.
That's still it's you're obviously speaking with a lot of humility, but it's still
a lot of work. And one of the things that I try to do
on my channel and the way that I am discussing with these people that are
into this hobby is really break down how much work these are because a lot
of people take them for granted. And one of the biggest complaints nowadays is
pricing, especially you know, the entire world. We're in the middle of
a giant inflation surge over the last couple of years. People are out of
work, people are I mean, people are literally dying across the globe.
And so, yes, physical media is low on the priority list and the
grand scheme of those things. But if you are going to take the time
to appreciate these things, it's important to know what goes into them and the
people behind them. So that's the main reason I wanted to have you on
here today so people could see the face behind third window and perhaps feel more
of the tug on the heartstring to dive more into Japanese cinema. So,
first of all, again, thank you for all of these releases. The
first one I wanted to highlight because I feel like this is what brought a
lot of people to you guys for the first time. Is one kind of
the dead. I think you had a huge hand in this, right well,
I think that's yes, it was such a successful hit, but that
had a lot of work that I put into it personally. That was a
film that I took on way before was released in Japan, and I love
that film so much. I mean, when I'm looking for a film to
distribute, you know, if that film has not become popular through film festivals,
through international media and this andaps, then it becomes very hard to actually
distribute the film. For example, for a film I've got I had I
discribted recently called Zoki, it didn't play any film festivals because the sales agent
want so good about it to getting into film festivals, and therefore when it's
released, it had no fanfare and nobody wanted to pick it up. So
I'm always nervous that, you know, if I leave it all up to
these sales agents of these producers, then it's no point me distributing it because
they're gonna screw it up one way or another. The Japanese are very good
at the international So what I did is in the cases of One Kind of
the Dead and many other films like Beyond the Infant two Minutes, is if
it's a film I want to distribute, i'd go to them the very beginning
and said, look, let me bring your film worldwide and act as a
sales agent, put it into film festivals, you know, make the correct
artwork so it's going to be popular and get picked up, and do everything
everything required to get that film out there. Then bring it all around the
world for a year or two, sell it to other distributors as well,
and then distributed myself, so that all the work I put into it also
comes back to me in that respect. And One Kind of the Dead was
one that I I bought to like one hundred and fifty film festivals, and
also in order to keep the cost down for the for the producer, where
he made a lot of money, in the end anyway, But like only
had like three DCPs over one hundred film festivals. So like every cost,
bring all the cost of subtitling. I'll do that. You know, let's
not make any expensive DCPs. The you know, if it's if you if
you give to a big company to handle it's like, well, we have
to go can and we have to market it there, and that's going to
cost you like twenty thousand dollars because of our hotel, and then we're gonna
go to this send stuff on this and then we're gonna be needly like one
hundred DCPs and like three hundred posters and all that. And it's like no,
no, no, let's cut all those costs off. And I'm just
gonna just put time and effort in and get that film to one hundred and
fifty film festivals without costing anything. So it's all profit as well. So
yeah, I really put a lot of effort in, and of course it's
a fantastic film, But there are many fantastic films out there that don't get
out there because of the sales agents wanting too much money for it or something.
I mean, there are so many examples of Asians films that should be
more well known and aren't because the companies that handle them are a bit of
a pain. So yes, One Cutter was one that I think, yes,
really did help my company get out get out there, but it was
you know, years of work as well. Well. It shows and that
release is special, not only just for the film itself, but everything that
is on that disc, the pack of it. It was quite obvious that
it was somebody that had this as a passion project. So again, just
everything is evident that when you are putting your mind to it, these they
can be incredible. And I just hats off to you for one person being
able to produce all of this is astonishing. And I'm I'm curious because if
I remember right, most, probably not most, but a lot of the
films on the label, they're not available literally anywhere else, right, Yeah,
in many cases it's the only release. Even for example, with the
Toysti Tokota films, some of them are not even available in Japan, right.
I mean a recently Funky Forest and Warped Forest Walkforest was never released in
any format, not even in cinemas in Japan, So it was the first
time the film was ever released outside of a film festival, and that I
mean, I also think that because these films have such a limited audience,
that if it isn't the only release of the film out there, then I
don't think it'll be you know, it'll sell an up to break even.
And even in those cases for example, I mean you mention the fact that,
of course, you know, there's so many Blue Rays release companies out
there, and there's only so much money that these people have, but how
many copies it does take to break even on how many copies sold? It
takes a break even on these releases. And you know, for example,
if a film like Crazy thunder Road, which is was the only release of
the film in forty years outside of Japan, and it hasn't even sold one
thousand copies, which is the break even point, so you know, and
that's that's not so expensive. I mean, if you're you're paying like thirteen
fourteen pounds by the disc the only version of and with loads of exclusive extras
as well, and yet that if that hasn't broken even, So you know,
I think I try to bring the price down as much as I can,
but you know, a lot of these times don't even break even,
and that is that's why I need films like One Kind of the Dead and
Hero or the Goblin and the obvious titles to balance those others. Yeah,
So for if you're open to sharing, is one thousand usually about the break
even for for most titles, Yes, I mean usually if you want to
pay any sort of guarantee, which is required to usually license the films,
then ucually the cost of breaking even on for example, the Blu ray author
ring the manufacturing of a thousand units, the certification costs by the DVFCNE all
that you're talking about six hundred units or five hundred units, and then you
have the price you have to pay to acquire the film with public that and
yes, it takes about a thousand a thousand copies to break even, and
it's hard to sell a thousand copies nowadays, to be honest, that hurts
with some of your obviously, like one Colored Dead is a bigger title with
some of the smaller titles. How well, like I wasn't gonna bring this
one up yet, but Ruined Heart I just watched this for the first time
the other night, and this movie, first of all, it's a beautiful
movie. This is such an astonishing release. Not sure your history with this
one. I've not gotten to any of the extras on it, other than
the music is incredible. It is shot magnificently. But I don't feel like
anybody's talking about this film. So if you can, how many have you
sold a Ruined Heart that just sold its thousands copy? Only one thousands were
made and we're talking about I don't know, six years ago. It took
about six years to sell them through just one thousand copies. But that's an
experimental film, and I really can't exp break people unless you're really into experimental
cinema. I don't think it's easy you want to get into. But it's
a very interesting release with a nice booklet, the soundtrack CD, and you
know, for people that want to try something, who want to try something
that experimental with like those sales points of Asano Tabnovu, Christopher Doyle music by
Stereotolso I mean it's an interesting package. But yes, it's a bit of
a hard one to recommend. I mean that came about by a company called
Rapid Eye Movies, who are a German distributor of Asian and cult cinema who've
been around for about twenty years more, and they were a company that I
used to love before I got into distribution, and I really respected them and
that the owner of that company, a guy called Stefan Holl, went into
film production, first with the film called Underwater Love, which I released,
and recently and afterwards with Ruined Heart and a few others, and I always
wanted to support him because he's also in a lot of trouble as a distributor,
and going into production as well makes things even harder. So in those
releases that I just wanted to help him. Underwater Love and Ruined Hearts and
the Pink films as well, we're projects of his, and yes they were.
He bought a film scanner and he tried to scan all these old pink
films, but the costs were too expensive. So I was like, Okay,
I'll help you distribute them and pay you money to cover your costs,
and just to help him keep going with what he loves because I love him
as a person and I learned to respect his company. So yeah, it's
it's hard for everyone who tries to do these sort of non mainstream films.
I think, well, I hope the overall karma of you trying to share
that has come back to you many times over because some of these, again
I fear that no one would get to see some of these because they would
never literally never get a release. So something like ruine Hart obviously has a
lower audience and it just got to a thousand over six years. But some
of these other like the Toyota box sets, have those done fairly well for
you. The first box set I made two thousand and they literally just sold
out over the last year and that was that was about took about five six
years, and that wasn't They were all region releases of three films that had
never been released nine so also have been released on DVD before, but they
were the first Blu ray releases in the world, not even in Japan,
were they And that took, yes some about six years to sell two thousand
and at a much cheaper price point than the new book set because of the
fact that through COVID a lot of the costs for manufacturing and everything else has
gone up, which is why I've had to release so many more mainstream films
over the last couple of years, because it's really really really gotten a lot
harder. So that the new toilet box that had a much higher price point
but more films, and in totally it's all about eight hundred copies so far,
but I had the press two thousands because the cost of pressing just one
thousand makes the per unit cost way too months I've still got yeah, thousand
copies boxes. Well, I hope this inspires at least some people to check
them out, because a lot of these are just beautiful, touching movies and
they are quite obvious somebody's like life's work encapsulated in one film in many of
these instances, and that is it's so hard to see nowadays because especially with
people that are just into Western cinema and they're you know, overridden with studioed,
water down trash. Basically, not to put those down too much,
but a lot of the culture you can find in these. You can't really
pay for an experience like that unless you're going to do something like this,
and it's astonishing what you've been able to release. But just luckily, especially
being in Japan, has allowed me to work directly with directors and producers without
needing to go through studios, which make things more expensive and more complicated dealing
with Japanese companies in general, is is very hard for Westerners because it's a
completely opposite way of working, and because Japan is such an island nation.
You know, I'm from England, which is an islandation of course, but
it's very different in the fact that Japan everything is domestic and all the films
make their money back in Japan, so they don't think about the international markets,
and they don't really understand the international market. So for me to go
to them and explain to them, you know, your costs that you're asking
for completely different to what the actual market is, they just don't understand that
because they're they're disconnected from it. So working with those those studios makes things,
yes, very stressful. So luckily being here and speaking Japanese, I
can go to people like Tyler directly and sometimes he can push the studios on
my behalf to help me. Helped me with the Ishi Katsuhito for films like
Monkey Forest and all that. Like having something is being close to directors or
producers. They can give the studios a pushy for quiet and it does help
things. So it gives me a side advantage. But then again, you
know, if there were more people interested in buying these films, then it
would be really different. But there's less people interested in as in sales age
or distributed is buying this because the audience is obviously not fair. So it's
it's I don't know if I wouldn't say it's pointless, but yes, it's
a bit niche on on that note, And this is maybe gonna sound like
an ignorant Westerner type of question to ask. But with the ultra rise in
Hong Kong cinema getting more attention lately, with some of the Korean cinema getting
more attention lately, with Asian cinema just getting a lot of love from a
lot of labels, is there any like paying attention to Japanese cinema rising that
you feel like people are seeking it out more in any sense of that?
I think, you know, the success of a lot of the Korean popular
titles of the last few years, or if you look at things like Squid
Game or Parasite, they're a little more alternative or a little more genre.
Yeah, And also you know the I think the Korean and Hong Kong producers
and probably they used to making those sorts of films and promoting it because they
know that that sells well. As I mentioned, Japan is very insular,
and films like that are making it. Obviously, like Drive My Car,
which is actually sort of a foreign film in essence because all the behind it
are foreign is yeah, it's it's maybe if people are watching that, they're
not going to want to watch them, like One Kind of the Dead because
it's it's it's a completely different genre, while parasite maybe it brings you into
more sort of fantastic type titles and the type of Japanese films that have traditionally
been popular, with the exception of Asia extreme it has been like Ozu and
Kudusawa, and those are the films that maybe people that don't watch Japanese cinema
would want to watch. You have to obviously the Battle Royale fans, of
which there are many of them, but they don't make those films in Japan.
To be honest, I mean, I think a lot of the films
that were popular overseas, we're just not popular in Japan, and therefore that
they don't make them, like She Soo, the Sushi Typhoon type films of
like you know, Hell Driver and The Machine Girl and all that. Those
are films aimed at a sort of international audience, but they're not popular in
Japan, so it's a catch twenty two. It's like, you know,
if you make a film for the international audience and it doesn't do well,
then you're in trouble. But if you make a film for the Japanese audience,
then you have a very much better chance of it making money. So
they mainly focus on on that side that makes sense and making money. This
is this is probably one of the first times that I noticed Third Window films
in more of an empathetic way last year, And I'm not sure if you
remember you I'm sure you do because it clearly affected you. But you posted
across social media that there was a film that you guys released that when you
googled it, the entire first page of results was for bootlegs and tourrets.
There are a lot of people still naive to the fact of how that can
affect people. So considering that a lot of these the only official release is
through Third Window Films, can you share how something like that can literally like
destroy one of these labels. And it's also actually not just destroying the labels,
which it obviously does, because you know, people aren't buying it there,
they are downloading it legally. But it's the reason also why Japanese companies
don't sell their films to the international market, because they know if a distributor
takes it on, it's immediately going to be pirated. And Japan is very
different to the rest of the world because piracy is not an issue in Japan.
You know, I think Korea piracy and a lot of other parts of
Asia, obviously China and Hong Kong, Korea piracy is a big problem for
them, so they also understand that it's a problem for everyone else, and
they just basically try to get things out at the same time to beat piracy
in that respect. But the Japanese because as as I mentioned before, Japanese
is so strict on criminals. I mean to the fact that I remember hearing
a story that a kid had downloaded one film, just one film, and
the police when it broke down the doors and put him in jail for one
film. And they do that in the same way that Toyota is arrested for
like half a grandma or some whatever tiny amount of marijuana. Is to make
sure that people don't commit crimes. I meaneen Japan is quite famous, having
a ninety nine percent conviction rate. Is they make examples a lot so that
people don't create crimes. So therefore they think that if a film that they
give to a distribut or now distributed to take, it's immediately gonna get pirated
and therefore it's going to hurt them. So they just said, all right,
we're just not going to sell our films unless it's a big enough amount
of money that it makes it worthwhile for us. But those that a massive
amounts of money is something that distributors like myself, because we have trouble with
piracy, cannot afford to pay. So it's a sort of complicated situation for
everyone. Yes, piracy is a it's yes, it kills everyone, but
it kills smaller distributors who have lots less margins more than it kills like,
you know, Hollywood. I guess because Holywood is still having you know,
tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of people watching their films and cinemas.
And if I'm only selling like five hundred Blu rays, then you know,
if I lose a couple hundred of that, then that's fails yes, it's
that's depressing. When you posted that last year, I have a weekly live
show, and that was a good ten or fifteen minutes of discussion on how
supporting some of these smaller labels not only leads to success for that label,
but literally to the hobby as a whole. It encourages others to participate,
to watch, to ensure that we're archiving film and art in general. And
I, I don't know, I feel like there are still millions of people
that don't think it's a problem anymore. And the fact that in twenty twenty
one you had to come out and post and say, look, I just
put out this film and this is the only thing that you can find on
the internet right now. It is it's so debilitating. Well, it's why
it's I think a lot of people also misread what I was saying. There
were a lot of people saying, well, we Google searched it and it
wasn't the pirate sites. But what I was I should have probably build them
more clear, is that when I release a film, I usually search for
the last week or two of hits on Google, because that's the things would
be related to the release. And they were, yes, all pirate sites.
But yes, as you mentioned, I think people don't really even my
mother, my mother who knows her son runs a film company. It's like,
oh, I'll just download that later. And it's like don't just don't,
don't tell me that, you know, like me in me, like
you know, it doesn't occur to whether that's a problem, and I think
many people in the world just don't think of it. There's a problem.
And but then again, you know, you in this world nowadays where like
you know, you've paid five dollars a month and you get like access to
like thousands of films. You know, the film itself has become less valuable.
Living in Japan really makes you see the world from a different standpoint because
it's a world where video on demand is not popular here yet, where people
go to the cinema, and the cinema prices don't have math and a prices
in fact, they've gone up over the last couple of years. So it's
all there's no dollar cinemas or things like that as they do in the States,
and it's like you pay to see the movie, you sit through the
move to the very end of the credits. To give respect to the people
that have made that movie and you know, if you like it, you
can go and rent it from from a video store and watch it again.
But you know, it's it's it's about yes, paying and supporting, because
if if something gets cheaper and cheaper, the price can't go back up afterwards,
and therefore something becomes less and less valuable the more the cheaper it is
marketed as. And we unfortunately in this well luckily for movie watchers who can
watch anything for pay five dollars a month and have watched like thousands of films.
But yes, it makes it a lot harder to continue making films.
And I think if you, I can't expect everyone to go and spend like
fifteen pounds on a DVD or blue ray or you know, it's just blind
by something just to support. But you know, I think in general,
you know, if people can understand that the amount of work, effort,
time that goes into getting out these things, you don't have to buy this
one, but at least in general, try to support things. I mean,
you wouldn't go to a shop and go that Coca cola looks nice,
I'm just gonna steal it, would you? But you at the same time
you're like, oh, I want to watch this movie, I'm just gonna
download it, and you know it's the same thing. I mean, you're
you're in essence stealing for something that people have made, and you know it's
a lot It hurts a lot more when that coca cola is like Adam's Coca
cola. And you know that's a good point. Well, speaking of getting
people to support, you've already announced some time itols coming out the rest of
the year, and they seem to be some that people are really after.
So do you mind sharing an info on a suicide club? So as I
had some problems, it was supposed to have been released and I was obviously
the Shion Sono situation has come up, and all the people that were connected
to helping put out the release as in making new audio commentaries. Unfortunately film
never had any good any bonus features from the original Japanese release, and you
can't just release a bare bones disc nowadays. You need to obviously have make
it a collectibles item, and I have somebody making very nice artwork for it
from illustrated artwork, and I had lots of bonus features all set up,
and everybody just pulled out of it after the accusations, and I tried to
renegotiate with the sales agent to an ami and also the video on demand called
company that was supposed to buy it dropped out as well. So I tried
to renegotiate to bring the price down to make it worthwhile, and they wouldn't
let me, so I had to. It's just sort of on hold,
like I haven't paid for it because I can't afford the amount there there without
having a pre sell it to some some fo D companies. So yeah,
it's a bit on the back burner. I mean, I think people have
forgotten about this, the Sono thing, because like at the time, everybody
was saying, we're not going to support a film a film and now loads
of your MAILI mean said Whinston next wins to release a suicide Club. So
I don't know, it's I if everyone you know, to be honest,
I know, And so no personally, and I don't think the acquisitions or
he's been pictured in the light that is is is really just to what who
is as a person. I think he's been a little scapegoated in a very
heated situation, but I can't really say that he's an angel either, so
it's very complicated. And yeah, that releases, I don't know what to
say. I mean, it's it's I get that. What about the OBI
stuff that's supposed to be coming. Yeah, that that's a big release a
book sets as the previous or by actually box set, but with films that
are a lot more accessible. They're not all three hours long, and that
has obviously helped a lot in making bonus features and checking the subtitles and doing
everything else. Because yeah, so I'm making just finaling up, finalizing up
some audio commentaries right now, and I've got the artwork just finished by the
same person who did the last artwork, and yeah, hopefully i'll have some
news within the next by the end of Bogust or something of release date,
but yeah, it'd be those Those are four fantastic films. They are quite
different in their own way, and they're never being released outside of Japan before,
so I think it should be or I hope it will is a popular
set. I've I've already had multiple people asked me about that since we posted
about that earlier this year when you announced that that was coming, So I
know that there are people already looking out for it. Yes, and they're
all gonna say, why is a lot to be And you know, I
don't think Also people realize that it's not it's not We're not the bad guys.
You know, it's not our fault. And speaking also as a producer
from the other side, as in it from the perspective of the people that
are selling the film to distributors. If you allow somebody to make it all
region unless they're paying a huge amount of money for it, it's very complicated.
It means that you can only sell it to in essence, one distributor,
and if you're a producer of something and making a film, you need
as many distributors to buy the film so that you can make as much money
as you can to recoup any sort of costs. I mean, obviously these
are all films, so there's no costs in that sense. But you know,
it's not easy to just like make it region free and make it available
to everyone's So it's not our fault. And of course I love to make
it region free because then they can increase my sales, but I have contract
that says I can't, and if I do, I'm in breach of a
contract. And you know, it's a lot harder for distributors to make a
film region free than like a user just buying a region free player. And
I always say that you don't need to buy a player sold as region free.
There are many players that you can buy on Amazon in Black Friday for
like thirty dollars that can be made region free very simply with just a remote
control hack. And every time I get a mail, I copy and paste
the same reply to each one, just to go to this website and then
get a region three player. That a player that can be made region free.
I also suggest for people just go to like an Amazon dot code at
UK and get a region B player so you can always have one connected and
now you get the best of both worlds. That's more complicated because that requires
a voltage adapt right, and I think people would just just I'll tell you
like when I lived I lived in the stage for a while and I got
some Toshiba forty dollars player, And before I bought that, I went on
DVD hacks dot com and I found the player that that you could press two
buttons in the remote control into region three. I mean, it's a it's
not not too complicated. It's not like at the Mond Chip something like you
used them. I still have people ask things like is Third Window Films?
Is there stuff region free? And I think that there are still too many
people that think the labels get to decide if things are regional arked. Can
you share some of the process behind that, since you've worked on both sides
well, as I just mentioned, you know, I think you know.
We have contracts with these the sales agents, and the contracts stipulate we can
sell within our territory, which is a territory that has been described as a
lot to a certain region. So for example, Region A is America and
it's English, and Region B is Europe. And then obviously there's the language
that can be used on the disc as well, right, and if I
want to have because I'm an English language, have English subtitles. If I
were to make mine Region A and then end up therefore being available in the
States, and therefore they can't sell that film to the States, and were
I to pay a large amount of money, I could, I could buy
both regions, but I can't. Sometimes with very small films, you can
negotiate, and I do have some films that are region free, because I've
said, if I'm the only person that's going to release this film in the
world, then look, let me just take all regions and then I'll it'll
increase the sales and therefore I can give you a better royalty based on sales.
But if it's a popular title, then I think it's a it's it's
impossible. I mean, I know nowadays you know with with four K and
all that or UHD, they're they're made as region region free or something,
but the costs. You know, you can't put a four K out of
a Japanese like small independent film. It's pointless. You can't put a four
K of ruined hard out there. It's only shot in two K. So
yes, I think also people will forget, like you know, you when
I went in with Japanese sms, that it's like shot on sixteen millimeters,
like you can't put that in four K because it's you can't blow up sixteen
millimeters four K or like you're talking about like films that have budgets of like
like I don't know, fifty thousand or one hundred thousand dollars and it's like
it's gonna worse than four K because in the budgetary constraints and the lack of
a proper lighting used in filming is going to look aw for like people,
Yeah, get so caught up in these things that are set by Massive.
Of course you want to watch Avatar in four K, but it doesn't mean
that you can put like Ruined Heart in four K, right, And had
to mention that even if you really wanted to try, the restoration price on
that would almost be probably the budget of the entire film. Yes, and
also you know Japanese aren't very willing to restore in four K, and they
don't like their prince to leave Japan either in order for a foreign company to
do that as well. So but in the end, you know, if
it's Battle Royale, then then you can put in four K because you know
people are gonna buy it, But you can't put all the costs into some
small Japanese films that they're belly setting a thousand copies. I mean, if
I'd done Crazy It's down the Road in four K or something, I've been
in big trouble right now. On the monetary note, if you could share
I've heard some behind the scenes rumors that the price essentially to license a Japanese
film in Regent B is exponentially less than to license it to Region A.
For so for them, I mean because Region A is America, and America
is is you know how many five six times the population of the UK,
and when you have more people then you have a bigger audience to sell to,
and therefore the price is you know, represents that, but it still
doesn't actually represent It's not like an American origion A is like five times six
times more. Actually it's only a little bit more or maybe double the price
for UK, which makes it even harder as a UK distributor because because we're
English, because we're English, were because we released films in English. The
sales agents also know that it opens up the market to Europe because a lot
of people in France or Germany can speak English with buy discs from England,
where if it's a French release with French only subtules, you're basically limited to
maybe to France only. So the costs of very high for such a small
population just because of the language. So it's it's it's very it's a lot
harder to release a film as an Elist distributor than an American distributor, I
believe, because it just doesn't really work out assended, right, that makes
sense. That was the monetary side of thing. So to get into the
person behind third window, who who is Adam? How'd you get where you
are? You mentioned living in the States, living in the UK, living
in Japan. You've had You've had a busy life. Yeah. I moved
to the States when I was ten. My mother won a green card.
They used to have a lottery they could give you American green cards, and
we won it and moved to the States. And I moved. We moved
to Florida, of all places, not the most cultural, right, so,
but I ended up working. There was a video store in Florida called
Video Renaissance, which is if it wasn't in Florida, it would be world
famous. So they had about fifty thousand films. Fifty thousand can you imagine
of the owner had been buying every single film in every format since the eighties
and just never thrown away anything, so any out of print, you know,
things like films like Fear, Anxiety and Depression that Todd Heading's like debut
film, like all that stuff on VHS that it was basically an archive that
was stuck in this like very small town called Sarasota in Florida, and you
know it was a pity that you know, it was in a place like
that, because if it was in New York, I mean, people would
come from all over. And I worked there for years and that's where I
sort of understood the concept of distribution because you know, just watching and buying
every film we could as a shop, but then again not being able to
see so many films because they won't distributed, you know, so that really
got me into distribution and also being able to about Asian cinema. You know,
at the time, it was like we would I would trade with Video
Search of Miami, who was a VHS. Like they were saying these big
handwritten catalogs, and you would you will know what anything is because the catalog
with words, and you just say, well that sounds good, and you
would post them a letter back and they would send you like Center Feed horror
because and then you watched like fifth generation VHS and you know, they got
me so much into the obscure Asian cinema. And I moved back to England
when I was twenty and at the time Tartan Films was was quite popular with
its aswo extreme brand, and I interned therefore for a year or so,
and I realized that, you know, from the outside, companies like that
seem fantastic, but when you work in companies, you know, you realize
that, you know, you think that everyone there is going to be big
fans of cinema and Asian cinema and like know everything, but then it's not
really the case. And I think it's a disillusioning And I stopped then and
and started in the films. That is a heck of a journey. And
I think that there are a lot of people that have obviously not the same
ending necessarily, but a lot of the people that are in this hobby their
passion started with memories like walking through a video rental store or uh, you
know, their parents' collection of laser discs or something like that. And it
is to me it feels like we are in essentially the true modern golden age
of physical media. Would you agree with that, Hm, I don't know.
I think that there has been in this generation at least. Yeah.
I mean, we're lucky because it has become cool, but not like,
for example, records became you know popular again over the last few years,
and and that you know, after so many years of of of digital really
becoming the main the main stream, you know, it became popular again to
to buy records or collect books or buy books, you know, or blue
rays or DVDs. But if you really I wonder if it really is the
Golden Age, because if you think of it, if it was so popular,
then there'd be loads of record shops, video shops, rental shops and
things on the high street and or retailers online. But there isn't really that
many. And you know, I when I when I look back at you
know, when I first started off, or even during the first few years.
I was speaking yesterday to my friend Joey at Terra Cotta Distribution. He
would release a film and like sell like three thousand copies in the first week.
And I would have titles that would sell like even chiny Japanese films that
would sell thousands and thousands of copies. And nowadays I can have a major
Japanese from barely selling a thousand copies. So I wonder if it's I mean,
of course, it's become a little cooler now, and the collector's market
has become maybe stronger, but it's it's really only a few companies that are
doing it, and there aren't really that many films getting out there compared to
what they used to be. But the Blu rays is actually expensive, you
know, DVD was. I think DVD was really the best market because and
it was cheap to make it, and there was just so many films getting
out there. So it's changed, but I don't know. I think DVD
at its tide was was much much better for film lovers because you know,
not format lovers. I think that's different nowadays is everybody's buying them. But
I wonder how many people are actually watching the films and how many watching the
bonus peaches on this guy. I think they like to say that they've got
these films and they've got these bonus speeches. But I feel that DVD was
a time where peopleould actual watch the films a lot more. That is a
probably very true statement, which is why I tried to really cultivate the the
sort of community of people to actually discuss what they think of these films and
how it affected them. And I don't know when I mentioned the Golden Age.
I'm really thinking in more of a post streaming world, and it seems
like this is I'm not gonna say it's gonna be on its way down,
but it seems like through COVID everything got really strong for a good year and
a half or so, and now that that heat seems to be coming off
a little bit again. And yeah, I think I think that thanks to
companies like Arrow Films who really have cultivated a strong audience. And and yes,
I think there was a lot of feeling from people too, And it
has been a lot of feeling over the past few years of supporting of the
independent films doing better than them Hollywood films, and that sort of want to
support you know, your your local DIY records store and your your local coffee
shop. And I think the whole independence has become popular. I mean,
if you walk down any main street of a of a major city nowadays,
it's all like shops made to look like like they've been run by a family,
you know, which is sort of brings it back to, yes,
the concept of sort of independent film distribution. It's that the IY record label
type of feeling to it. But yeah, I think, yeah, yeah,
I don't know. I think it's maybe works more as a theory than
I really wonder sometimes you know how well, but yeah, I know,
I think an hour Hourrow and some of companies like that, And there have
been lots of new distributors. Surprisingly, I wouldn't have thought it'd be so
many new distributors popping up, Like there's Era four for four four on comedian
films in Australia and Radiance popping up now. But I'm always surprised that,
like some of these companies released like one to two films and people on the
inten and saying like this is my new favorite label, and like, you
know, some companies have been working for many more years and it's releasing two
films. Maybe it's consistent, you get one hundred percent with two good films,
but try that over fifteen years. Well, that is a really good
time to ask some of these older titles that you put out, maybe you
know, five or six years ago, that have not sold their first thousand
yet. Are there any that you think deserve a second look that people should
really be looking into if they get a you know, the idea to try
to support third window. Right now, you probably I'd probably have to look
at what you know, I just get. I mean, there are actually
surprisingly films that that surprisingly haven't done this or haven't broken even yet, Like
the re release of Fish Story on Blu Ray. I really expected that to
do a lot better, being the only Blue Relay releases of the film in
the world and region three and having lots of extras. The DVD sold really
well during this time, and the Blu ray has not even broken even yet.
So I do think that's a sort of film that's easy to recommend whether
you're into any sort of cinema. I think it can be one that that
everybody everybody likes. And my recent most recent release of Summertime Machine Blues,
I also think that's the type of film that you don't really have to be
hardcore into Asian cinema or even cinema in general. And it's a film that
would make you enjoy it and feel good and and and it's it's a very
good film with and a great release full of extras, and the only release
of the film outside of Japan. So I think, you know, there
are lots of films, yes, but but you know, whether they be
my label, somebody else's you know, yes, I please everyone, just
I think, yeah, watching films is good, and like I said,
not only for supporting these groups, but it is literally archiving art. And
some of the ways that we can do this is literally just to keep it
in our minds, be able to make it a part of our modern history
as well, and not just something that happened forty years ago and was a
blip in a history book. Basically, yeah, it's really important, and
you do learn this, I mean being a doing this for a while.
For example, there was a director call Ucita Kenji who releases films like Key
of Life, A Stranger of Mine, and he made a few very good
Japanese films about ten years ago, but none of those films were ever really
released, and he stopped making films years and he's sort of unknown is because
the film's never made it out there into people's hands. He's essentially sort of
I don't know, I don't I don't know, say died, but like
in a sort of cultural sense, he doesn't exist. And for somebody who
made all these great films back then, if it's it's important that they exist
and not just like a you know, of course, it's easier to to
to rent a film and and maybe people don't have so much room in the
houses and all that. Of course that you know, we can't all have
big houses. Even I live in Tokyo and I don't have so much anymore.
But you know, I think the concept of of having and supporting physical
anything that keep out alive and keep because if your computer breaks or if your
computer breaks, you know, I think last year there was some big situation
with Intel or something like that, and I remember that, like the data
was wiped out for a long time. And if that happens and all these
films are lost, and what are you going to do? So you know,
in one way or another, you can keep something or another to pass
on to your children or pass on to to an on the next generation.
It's it's important. That was very well said. That is why, you
know, the restoration work being done on some of these older films is something
that needs to be supported. The fact that we are putting time and energy
into, you know, for your company, primarily documenting the hands that were
actually on this film. I mean you're going to these people's homes and hearing
from their mouth their experience, their their time spent on them, and you
guys have some great extras on everything that you've done. So again, just
thank you, thank you, thank you, and yes, that's together.
Try to keep find one one person a day, or you know, one
person every two days or three days. You know. I think it's you
know, I think it keeps everyone happy and keeps everything alive, just you
know, or talking and meeting. It's not easy to meet nowadays with COVID,
but even if it's just meeting on the internet like we are now,
it's important. I completely agree. I'll give you back your day then,
Adam, thank you so much for spending the time to come on here and
discuss. I really hope people seek out Third Window Films. And the last
thing I wanted to mention is you mentioned that Terra Cotta distribution. They are
like one of your main arms of your sore Front now basically correct. Yes,
Joey, the owner of Terra Cotta is a friend of mine for twenty
years. Actually, I did a podcast yesterday. We do have the Third
Window Film's podcast, and we had him on as a guest and there's a
lot of reminiscing upon things that we've forgotten about twenty years prior to he used
to also run his own distribution company, which he does less and less nowadays,
but he acts as a retailer and thanks to him during COVID, when
all the other people like Arrow doubled their commissions and really made it to a
point where I didn't think I could continue anymore. To be honest, he
is using his house to to ship out my Blu rays and taking a percentage
that is there's nowhere near what Amazon an Hour and all the other big companies
are asking. So I really anybody who wants to buy any of my discs,
I always send them to Terra Cotta, and I always price point them.
They're lower than everywhere else because he takes a smaller percentage, So it's
it should be a win win, but if you can it's it's really him
just putting stuff into into packages and posting them out himself. So it's a
proper independent all around. And there are frequently sales throughout the year. I
mean just a few months ago you did the Takeshi Kitano. I think it
was four Blu rays for twenty pounds sale that was yehock low. Yeah.
The thing is the rights had expired and I couldn't renew them, so I
had all this stock left over. And if ever I do have stock left
over or find stuff. Sometimes I find stuff in a warehouse, like or
something that's been out of print for like years. It goes straight to him
and he sells it on his shop. So he always has the yes,
the best way to find anything that might be harder to find elsewhere. Terra
Cotta is great. I've talked to Joey a couple of times. He's a
brilliant, brilliant dude. Again, thanks for your time, Adam. Everybody
please check out Third Window films. They've got at least the Obashi said coming
out the rest of the year. Is there anything else that you can tease
or any other ideas coming up. I've been working on some katsu Ishi films
like sharkskin Man and Peachip Girl and Party Seven, which are quite the sort
of films that Tarantino really really loved and interested fired him to make a kill
Bill and in which he hired the director of those films to work on Kill
Bill with him. So I think they they've been it's been twenty five years
since some sharkskin Man. It's working on a remaster now, so hopefully it'll
probably be next year. But there there are some things like that that I've
got on the back burner and yeah, hopefully things things will move forwards with
awesome Thank you again Adam, have a good day. Hope Tokyo treat you
will thank you do me no