WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.960 --> 00:00:10.480 Big food and be on with Cliff and Bubo. These guys are your favorites, 2 00:00:10.880 --> 00:00:19.879 so like say subscribe and raid it. I'm star and righteous on yesterday 3 00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:29.719 listening watching Limb always keep its watching and now your hosts Cliff Berrickman and James 4 00:00:29.760 --> 00:00:33.479 Bubo Fay. Hello, Bobo, how you doing today? Good Cliff, 5 00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:36.479 it's a really good day, actually, really good day. We have a 6 00:00:36.479 --> 00:00:39.759 great guest lined up today, Kelly Birdall from Montana. We'll be talking to 7 00:00:39.799 --> 00:00:42.799 him in just a few minutes. Yeah. He's a good friend of ours 8 00:00:42.799 --> 00:00:46.159 for a long long time actually too, so yeah, we're gonna get get 9 00:00:46.159 --> 00:00:49.479 into that interview in just a few minutes, really really soon here, because 10 00:00:49.679 --> 00:00:51.960 we just talked a couple of days ago, I don't have much much of 11 00:00:51.960 --> 00:00:55.520 an update for you except for museum stuff. Repping Meldrem at the museum this 12 00:00:55.560 --> 00:00:58.359 week. But he's not the only one. The lovely and talented Matt Prue 13 00:00:58.399 --> 00:01:00.799 will be out with his lovely and talented wife Emily and going to have Michael 14 00:01:00.840 --> 00:01:04.040 Freeman and Ken Gerhart staying at the house on Thursday night before we go to 15 00:01:04.079 --> 00:01:08.120 squatch Fest this weekend. A lot of stuff going on, dude, I'm 16 00:01:08.159 --> 00:01:11.640 bombed. I can't make it up there. For especially with Proop in there. 17 00:01:11.640 --> 00:01:14.519 I was like, gods, like, we could do this live, 18 00:01:14.680 --> 00:01:15.959 like, you know, all three of us in the same movie. Great, 19 00:01:17.120 --> 00:01:19.920 but it's not working out. Well, you know, maybe there's a 20 00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:22.920 chance later on in the year where I was talking to Matt about maybe bringing 21 00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:25.560 him out later in the year or something for an event, because people were 22 00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:27.879 asking if Matt's can be speaking at the museum anytime soon, so well, 23 00:01:29.799 --> 00:01:32.920 there's a good reason to bring him out. I've also been going to get 24 00:01:32.959 --> 00:01:34.959 a lot of feedback on some comments I made a few weeks ago about the 25 00:01:34.959 --> 00:01:38.879 Ape Canyon stuff. A lot of people are asking there. I've been fielding 26 00:01:38.879 --> 00:01:42.079 emails about what kind of event it's going to be, and it's going to 27 00:01:42.120 --> 00:01:44.640 be a small event, just so people know, like we'll have Mark Marcell 28 00:01:44.680 --> 00:01:47.519 at the museum, and although the demand seems to be there that maybe we'll 29 00:01:47.560 --> 00:01:49.760 just do two nights in a row with Mark, which is great because that 30 00:01:49.799 --> 00:01:53.319 means Mark's sleeping at the house and we're hanging out having a campfire. And 31 00:01:53.519 --> 00:01:55.719 there are a few people on the planet that I love more than Mark Marcell. 32 00:01:56.000 --> 00:01:57.920 Oh God, Yeah, he's the best. He's the best. So 33 00:01:59.439 --> 00:02:01.079 finish one of the displays that's going to go hopefully later in the week as 34 00:02:01.079 --> 00:02:06.280 well. Oh oh, check this out. I have some connections and this 35 00:02:06.400 --> 00:02:08.800 is pretty mature, but there's an ever so slight chance that I have a 36 00:02:08.919 --> 00:02:15.960 line on the original mining claim for Ape Canyon, the vander Whitemine, like 37 00:02:15.039 --> 00:02:19.319 the actual original. Yeah, I know, I'm not crazy. We'll see. 38 00:02:19.360 --> 00:02:22.439 I mean, that's such a long shot, but there's actually a little 39 00:02:22.639 --> 00:02:25.919 glint of hope in there that that could end up with the museum. So 40 00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:30.840 anyway, yeah, cool stuff's happening. But that's insane. It is insane. 41 00:02:30.879 --> 00:02:31.879 It is insane. If that happens, don't you worry. I'll be 42 00:02:31.879 --> 00:02:36.120 telling the world about it. But right now, it's just a it's a 43 00:02:36.159 --> 00:02:38.240 big, big maybe in a big big question mark. So that's like kind 44 00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:43.039 of the Magna Carta in your museum or something. Let alone the other thing 45 00:02:43.080 --> 00:02:45.560 I told you about a couple of weeks ago that has some comeing to fruition 46 00:02:45.680 --> 00:02:50.479 yet, like the NYBC might be home to some really interesting uh you know, 47 00:02:50.639 --> 00:02:58.560 artifacts, like legit historical artifacts, downright religious artifacts honestly, So yeah, 48 00:02:58.960 --> 00:03:00.319 you told me those things. If that works out, that's going to 49 00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:04.439 be incredible. Yeah, cathedrals in Europe may have like the big toe of 50 00:03:04.520 --> 00:03:07.120 Saint So and so man, but we're gonna have some amazing things in the 51 00:03:07.280 --> 00:03:09.319 NABC for people to come check out. And you know, pray too. 52 00:03:09.879 --> 00:03:13.759 Yeah. Yeah, So a lot of stuff's happening at the NABC, of 53 00:03:13.840 --> 00:03:15.800 course, and you know a lot of stuffs happening with the podcast as well. 54 00:03:15.840 --> 00:03:19.120 And one of the things that we're doing every single week I think everybody 55 00:03:19.199 --> 00:03:22.240 knows is we have a member section. So after we talked to Kelly, 56 00:03:22.280 --> 00:03:24.719 we're gonna be doing a whole new member episode there and we're going to try 57 00:03:24.759 --> 00:03:28.520 to answer some questions we didn't get to last time in our Q and A. 58 00:03:29.039 --> 00:03:30.439 So if you want to become a member, go to the website to 59 00:03:30.520 --> 00:03:34.919 hit membership. The website, of course is Bigfoot to be on podcast dot 60 00:03:35.039 --> 00:03:38.599 com hit membership stuff, and you know, for five bucks you get another 61 00:03:38.680 --> 00:03:40.599 hour of content every single week, every single week. In case you don't 62 00:03:40.599 --> 00:03:44.439 have enough Cliff and Bobo in your life, here's your opportunity. And of 63 00:03:44.479 --> 00:03:47.159 course Matt PreO it's often on the call with us as well, So with 64 00:03:47.240 --> 00:03:50.599 that though, Let's hop into the Kelly bird All interview. I've been looking 65 00:03:50.599 --> 00:03:53.479 forward to this for a little while because Kelly's a good friend and I'm looking 66 00:03:53.479 --> 00:04:00.159 forward to a great conversation. Well, folks, clipping Boba here for we 67 00:04:00.199 --> 00:04:02.159 got a special guest today. Well, I guess we're special, but we 68 00:04:02.280 --> 00:04:06.199 got an old buddy guy we've known since we got into the game. You 69 00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:10.680 know, as far as meeting people, is a long time well respected researcher, 70 00:04:10.800 --> 00:04:15.280 Kelly Burdall from Montana. Welcome aboard, Kelly. Welcome Kelly, Thanks 71 00:04:15.319 --> 00:04:18.040 Cliff, Thanks Bobo. I was going to say, Bobs, Barrickman and 72 00:04:18.120 --> 00:04:21.439 bird All back together again. It sounds like an awesome expedition team. I 73 00:04:21.560 --> 00:04:27.480 think a law firm. Yeah, the three Bees and calls the Killer bees 74 00:04:30.839 --> 00:04:32.480 Man. So like I was thinking of just the other day, man, 75 00:04:33.079 --> 00:04:38.319 we've known you a long time, A long time, Yeah, for sure. 76 00:04:39.319 --> 00:04:43.279 You know, I think my very first expedition was way back in ninety 77 00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:47.839 nine with John Friedis, and that's when I met bobes for the first time. 78 00:04:47.920 --> 00:04:51.120 Bobo was out there. John did a mission night Scream. It was 79 00:04:51.160 --> 00:04:55.680 a thing through the BFRO back in the day, and it was my very 80 00:04:55.839 --> 00:05:01.399 first thing. I just honestly just discovered internet and search engines at our school 81 00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:05.839 because we got computers and internet at our school, and anyway, locked onto 82 00:05:05.920 --> 00:05:11.360 the BFRO and got on a mailing list and John got me. I got 83 00:05:11.399 --> 00:05:15.279 in touch with John and we had Mission Night Scream and and so you know, 84 00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:18.959 we're pushing close to thirty years. I'd say, yes, No, 85 00:05:19.079 --> 00:05:21.439 I mean I think I met you. I think I personally met you at 86 00:05:21.480 --> 00:05:28.959 the the conference up in Bellingham. But what year was at two and five? 87 00:05:29.360 --> 00:05:31.680 Two thousand and five? Yeah, yeah, so it's nineteen years for 88 00:05:31.800 --> 00:05:34.720 us, and even on Bobo even longer. That's insane. Man. You're 89 00:05:34.759 --> 00:05:38.160 a music teacher, right, Kelly, Yeah, yeah, I do. 90 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:41.839 I'm a high school band director out here in Bozeman, Montana. I think 91 00:05:41.839 --> 00:05:48.639 you're a math major. Over thirty years, so yeah, you know those 92 00:05:48.720 --> 00:05:53.759 early Mission Night Scream things. I mean, it seems like that has kind 93 00:05:53.759 --> 00:05:56.279 of been lost to history, but that was a big thing for quite a 94 00:05:56.360 --> 00:05:59.680 while. I mean, it was an important event. Is one of the 95 00:05:59.759 --> 00:06:04.600 old semi organized expeditions out there at the time. And I think that Mission 96 00:06:04.720 --> 00:06:10.720 Night Scream in one way or another eventually kind of planted the seeds for the 97 00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:16.079 BFRO expeditions that are still ongoing today. But Mission Night Scream was something special 98 00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:20.439 because it was BFRO related, but it wasn't BFRO wasn't really sponsored by the 99 00:06:20.519 --> 00:06:26.199 BFRO or John Fredis just kind of take that and run with it before he 100 00:06:26.319 --> 00:06:28.600 was Yeah, he was Fradus was into that thing. So, yeah, 101 00:06:28.800 --> 00:06:32.160 tell us about those because that's something a little aspect of Bigfoot history that I'm 102 00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:36.360 gambling that I'm betting here that most, if not you know, ninety nine 103 00:06:36.399 --> 00:06:40.480 percent of our listeners probably know nothing about. Yeah. Well, I think 104 00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:46.800 John, being a former police officer, had he had a really great idea, 105 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:49.079 and I think that, like you said, it's a precursor to even 106 00:06:49.360 --> 00:06:58.439 that call blasting idea that really went viral basically for technique purposes. And so 107 00:06:59.199 --> 00:07:01.279 his idea was, hey, man, let's get a bunch of people up 108 00:07:01.360 --> 00:07:05.439 in some vehicles. Let's go way up in these mountain roads and spread out 109 00:07:05.680 --> 00:07:12.480 at almost quarter to a half mile intervals with John and a giant damn speaker 110 00:07:12.519 --> 00:07:16.439 he had in the back of the truck, and he would broadcast some alleged 111 00:07:16.480 --> 00:07:21.480 bigfoot calls and the Ohio Howell as an example, across the you know, 112 00:07:21.639 --> 00:07:27.360 the mountain canyons, and we'd be spread out probably over the span of four 113 00:07:27.439 --> 00:07:30.480 miles and with each person with some kind of recording device. And then the 114 00:07:30.560 --> 00:07:36.839 idea was if we did hear a reply, then we would break into an 115 00:07:38.120 --> 00:07:44.959 active response team people, maybe a perimeter team, followed by or prefaced by 116 00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:49.639 maybe a quick response team that gets tries to get in the location in an 117 00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:56.279 effort to get some footage. And I think that was the initial idea behind 118 00:07:56.360 --> 00:07:59.759 those boats. It was a basic idea, but it was a great idea 119 00:08:00.680 --> 00:08:05.439 and it worked. I mean he had he didn't have success for a couple 120 00:08:05.480 --> 00:08:07.360 of years he started, didn't have any success with them. He got in 121 00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:11.040 the right spots and he really started started working. Well, this stuff was 122 00:08:11.079 --> 00:08:15.720 mostly centered around northern California because he lived up there in the Crescent City, 123 00:08:15.839 --> 00:08:20.240 right. Yeah, he started off going down well, he first started going 124 00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:26.120 down southern Humble in the uh Robert Letterman's arranger down there in Redwood State Park. 125 00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:30.959 So what kind of results were obtained on these expeditions. Well, I 126 00:08:31.279 --> 00:08:33.279 remember on that first one, you know, at the time, we were 127 00:08:33.320 --> 00:08:39.440 still using that high pitched call that people had attributed to a big foot, 128 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:45.559 but was later identified as a barred owl, and we we we had barred 129 00:08:45.639 --> 00:08:48.399 owl responses, and so at the time, you know, most of us 130 00:08:48.440 --> 00:08:52.480 had assumed that was a sasquatch, and so so it was really exciting at 131 00:08:52.480 --> 00:08:54.240 that time. But later, you know, we realized this is probably just 132 00:08:54.360 --> 00:08:58.200 that big screaming owl. But there were, you know, the various things 133 00:08:58.279 --> 00:09:01.679 happened. We had something close it was crashing through the brush one of one 134 00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:07.039 of the nights out there. And as Bobo said, you know, John 135 00:09:07.120 --> 00:09:13.559 had some good responses because he did two or three of those mission night screams. 136 00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:16.320 I think I only went on the first one, maybe the second one, 137 00:09:16.840 --> 00:09:20.559 but it spearheaded me in that same direction, and I would borrow John's 138 00:09:20.559 --> 00:09:26.000 equipment and go up to northern California and kind of do that kind of thing 139 00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:28.960 myself. Where were you living at the time. I was living all the 140 00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:31.960 way down in Bakersfield, California, Central California, and so it was a 141 00:09:33.240 --> 00:09:37.600 trap. Man. I did not realize the length of the state, you 142 00:09:37.679 --> 00:09:41.440 know, so I would have to drive twelve to fourteen hours to get to 143 00:09:41.399 --> 00:09:46.200 that northern California area. Were you aware that there were Sasquatches in the Sierras 144 00:09:46.200 --> 00:09:48.559 at that time. You know, I was still brand new at that back 145 00:09:48.639 --> 00:09:54.879 in the mid to late nineties, and so I didn't necessarily at the time. 146 00:09:54.960 --> 00:09:58.039 It wasn't until I really started going into research into the topic, realizing, 147 00:09:58.519 --> 00:10:03.639 you know, and the hairy Man pictographs are there, the Sierra's are 148 00:10:03.720 --> 00:10:05.399 right there. I've got Sequoia, you know, a couple hours away. 149 00:10:05.960 --> 00:10:09.320 I was just missing a gold mine. Actually, I had no idea. 150 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:11.840 Yeah, I didn't. I didn't quite realize that either, because when I 151 00:10:11.840 --> 00:10:15.159 started getting into it and back in you know, ninety to ninety three four 152 00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:20.159 or somewhere in there. Yeah, Krantz was the only go to really, 153 00:10:20.240 --> 00:10:22.679 I mean for me, because I like the science side of things, and 154 00:10:22.799 --> 00:10:26.440 Krantz focused on the Pacific Northwest because that's where he lived. But he did 155 00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:28.720 comment it seems to be a lot of good habitat in the Sierras, just 156 00:10:28.840 --> 00:10:31.360 not a lot of stuff in there coming out of there to his ears at 157 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:33.600 least, you know, I had no idea about all the stuff that was 158 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:37.919 being done there at the time until I started teaming up with Kathy Musquitz. 159 00:10:37.960 --> 00:10:41.399 At the time, it ounced Kathy's train. She kind of showed me what 160 00:10:41.519 --> 00:10:45.240 was going on out there in the Sierras, and that became my go to 161 00:10:45.360 --> 00:10:48.000 when I was living in Long Beach, California, you know, the southern 162 00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:52.039 Sierras and whatnot right outside of Bakersfield, the Current River and all that jazz. 163 00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:56.080 Yeah, exactly, Now, what put Bigfoot on your radar or what 164 00:10:56.200 --> 00:10:58.879 put freightus in those guys on your radar? Really? After that? I 165 00:10:58.919 --> 00:11:01.000 mean you said the Internet, You said the Internet, but like, but 166 00:11:01.639 --> 00:11:03.799 when you sat down at the computer to look at the Internet for the first 167 00:11:03.840 --> 00:11:05.080 time, you had to type in the word Bigfoot, Like there, what 168 00:11:05.240 --> 00:11:13.120 was the seed of that? The seed for me was probably overall looking for 169 00:11:13.279 --> 00:11:18.080 something more than just our everyday lives. That's that's around us there. For 170 00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:22.120 some reason, I've had this driving passion for more than what we all know. 171 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:28.840 And I remember I there was a an old book my dad had in 172 00:11:28.919 --> 00:11:31.360 a bookshelf, a little paperback, but it's got a picture of the Patterson 173 00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:37.799 picture frame of the Patterson subject on the cover, and you know, but 174 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:41.159 it was for me, it was just anything outside the note the known quote 175 00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:46.399 unquote known world that most of us are trapped in. And sometimes I feel 176 00:11:46.440 --> 00:11:50.799 like it was the matrix right, there's there's got to be more out there, 177 00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:56.440 and so yeah, so I've always been fascinated with things outside, you 178 00:11:56.480 --> 00:12:00.039 know, just the physical world that's right in front of us. And and 179 00:12:00.120 --> 00:12:03.639 so then it did lead me when it be a day after work one time 180 00:12:03.720 --> 00:12:05.919 at the school I was teaching at, like I said, we had just 181 00:12:05.960 --> 00:12:09.000 got an Internet, and I just said Bigfoot. I just did a search 182 00:12:09.080 --> 00:12:15.799 for Bigfoot, and then I saw a title that said Bigfoot Sounds, and 183 00:12:15.879 --> 00:12:18.039 I was like, what the hell? And so I clicked on and that's 184 00:12:18.039 --> 00:12:22.480 when I heard the Ohio howell through the BFRO site first, and I was 185 00:12:22.679 --> 00:12:24.519 absolutely blown away. I had never even thought that, well, of course 186 00:12:24.759 --> 00:12:30.600 they would make sounds, and so was the That was the number one kickoff 187 00:12:30.679 --> 00:12:33.759 for me. I investigated a little further, got on the mailing list of 188 00:12:33.799 --> 00:12:39.399 the BFRO because I was like, this is so interesting. And shortly thereafter 189 00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:43.559 is when Fredis sent out the note, Hey, we're doing this expedition in 190 00:12:43.639 --> 00:12:46.799 northern California looking for people to come along. It's called Mission Night Scream, 191 00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:48.759 you know, and the rest is history. On the Night Scream when that 192 00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:52.399 you were on, was that the one in Bluff Creek. It was. 193 00:12:52.759 --> 00:12:56.159 We did start in the Patrick Creek drainage up there on the one ninety nine, 194 00:12:56.200 --> 00:13:03.320 I believe, and then in fact we started the Patrick Creek Lodge for 195 00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:07.480 a big steak dinner and just kind of get to know each other and I 196 00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:11.120 think there were maybe about fourteen of us all together, and then it did 197 00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:13.200 lead down. We did that the first night, and then we did come 198 00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:18.879 down and we did Bluff Creek also, and then like Bobo said, we 199 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:22.679 had moved over to I can't think of some of the names further to the 200 00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:28.120 east and maybe the southeast from the Bluff Creek area, hay Fork and those 201 00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:31.200 kind of things. Oh wow, he covered a lot of ground. Yeah, 202 00:13:31.279 --> 00:13:35.879 that's the one thing that might be different is that it was about covering 203 00:13:35.960 --> 00:13:41.559 as much territory as possible, trying to get a vocal reply. What do 204 00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:46.080 you remember about those events, Bobo Kelly's good looks. Yeah. Just after 205 00:13:46.200 --> 00:13:52.240 that, I did a trip with John alone and we went to Patrick Creek 206 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:54.919 and he said, he goes, yeah, I've got reports out of here. 207 00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:58.320 But and he lived in Christian City. So that's del Noark County and 208 00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:03.559 Patrick Strickson County and so I went out there with him, and that's where 209 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:09.240 I learned squatches because John was a terrible sleep app in you guy just snorting, 210 00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:15.480 you know, like sounded like growling and all kinds of just crazy sounds 211 00:14:15.519 --> 00:14:18.720 come out, and he was loud snore. And when we when he turned 212 00:14:18.759 --> 00:14:22.759 in zip up his tent, he starts snoring. And I know it, 213 00:14:22.120 --> 00:14:28.240 within like ten fifteen, twenty minutes, there would be I'd hear something coming 214 00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:31.559 up, and then we had these two things walking around the camp on two 215 00:14:31.639 --> 00:14:33.799 legs, and I was trying to wake John up, and then I'd try 216 00:14:33.799 --> 00:14:37.840 to wake him up and they'd stop moving for like ten minutes and he wouldn't 217 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:41.279 wake up anyways. And so ye, that's why that's when I and I 218 00:14:41.559 --> 00:14:43.840 ended up. The next time. I thought that I recorded him snoring. 219 00:14:43.919 --> 00:14:48.240 That's why I used the snoring recording in my tent. I actually had a 220 00:14:48.279 --> 00:14:52.080 couple of approaches doing that. So that was one thing I learned early on 221 00:14:52.600 --> 00:14:58.399 on those things. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo 222 00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:09.120 will be right back after these messages. So so Kelly, at the time, 223 00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:13.799 you probably picked up a lot of techniques and probably contacts and whatever from 224 00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:18.320 these expeditions, because those are really the value of going on public expeditions is 225 00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:22.240 learning new techniques and meeting new people. What did you do with that information? 226 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:24.879 Like, how did that help you in your own research? Sure? 227 00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:28.840 Well that I tell you what that mission night scream. You know, again, 228 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:33.000 not ever having been involved with fellow researchers or any other people that are 229 00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:39.080 interested in the topic, seriously interested. I wasn't sure what I was getting 230 00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:43.559 into, Like, am I going to get put into this pile of crazy 231 00:15:43.639 --> 00:15:45.840 people? You know? I really knew. I didn't know what to expect. 232 00:15:45.879 --> 00:15:48.840 And when I met John, I met Bobo, and I Autumn Williams 233 00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:56.159 was on there. Manny from Bedford, Oregon loved Manny. So I met 234 00:15:56.159 --> 00:16:00.960 all these amazing people and it was and it was so exciting. And the 235 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:07.600 idea of there's tangible there's tangible results out here that that can substantiate, you 236 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:11.039 know, what we're trying to find and put all those things together. That 237 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:15.120 was the impetus that put the permanent or put the hooks in me. I 238 00:16:15.159 --> 00:16:19.240 shouldn't say permanent, put the hooks in me to really be serious about this, 239 00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:22.799 and like wow, like my mind is blown. But it wasn't until 240 00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:27.360 the next one when I stayed friends with John and I asked if I could 241 00:16:27.399 --> 00:16:33.080 borrow his blast, his broadcasting equipment, And that's when I took a small 242 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:36.840 group. I took three of my students, my high school students, my 243 00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:41.720 sister and here fiance at the time, and borrow John stuff. We drove 244 00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:45.799 all the way in northern California and we went up Bluff Creek, and that's 245 00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:51.440 when we had a major, what I'll call a major incident at fish Lake. 246 00:16:51.879 --> 00:16:53.919 Both you guys are familiar with fish Lake, I'm sure, and that 247 00:16:55.279 --> 00:17:00.559 was the absolute permanent hooks. I'm in this top to bottom to the end, 248 00:17:00.759 --> 00:17:06.440 because it was it was unreal that what had happened there, well tell 249 00:17:06.519 --> 00:17:11.640 us about it. So we had driven up to the gate to go down 250 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:15.759 to fish Lake. In fact, it was either John or maybe through Bobo. 251 00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:19.119 Through John. From Bobo, somebody had talked about what about fish Lake. 252 00:17:19.160 --> 00:17:22.640 We've heard some stuff going on over at fish Lake, and so was 253 00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:30.279 this was I believe either over spring break or it really doesn't matter. But 254 00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:33.799 the point is that the gate at the top of the access to fish Lake 255 00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:37.160 was locked. It was early enough in the season. They don't have people 256 00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:41.119 coming down there, so the gate was locked. So we set up the 257 00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:45.920 broadcast equipment. This is this is mid afternoon. We blew some calls across 258 00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:48.960 the canyons, you know, set it out there as loud as we could, 259 00:17:48.519 --> 00:17:53.759 just with the intent to try to attract anything. Put the stuff back 260 00:17:53.880 --> 00:17:56.599 in the truck, locked it up, put on our packs, and we 261 00:17:56.759 --> 00:18:00.680 hiked down the road, just walked the road down to the like, which 262 00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:04.000 was about three mile walk. There was one other car there, those folks 263 00:18:04.119 --> 00:18:07.519 had we met them on the way out. They got in the car, 264 00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:11.559 they drove away. So we are alone in this this drainage up here, 265 00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:15.720 and so we get down. We get to the campground. Literally, it's 266 00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:18.759 the campground at the lake. You know, it's a it's a campground area. 267 00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:25.000 And it wasn't week They're about five six pm. It was about nine 268 00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:29.440 nine thirty and we're putting cooking a little bit of dinner and setting up the 269 00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:32.440 tents, and all of a sudden, about fifty yards away from us, 270 00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:38.599 we hear this whistle, like two short whistles, and then it was answered 271 00:18:38.680 --> 00:18:45.359 by the most god awful scream I could ever imagine, the type of scream 272 00:18:45.400 --> 00:18:49.640 that feels like it's peeling the skin off your face. It defies the scription. 273 00:18:49.759 --> 00:18:55.119 Of course, this is before we had you know, automatic sound activated 274 00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:57.119 recorders. I mean, we had a freaking cassette recorder where I have to 275 00:18:57.240 --> 00:19:02.480 hit record with your thumb in order to you know, to actually record anything. 276 00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:07.440 And so we missed that recording. But it was the most frightening thing 277 00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:08.799 for all of us there. Of course, you know, I'm way into 278 00:19:08.839 --> 00:19:11.640 this, but that's scared the crap out of me, and the other five 279 00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:17.000 people were like ready to die in their shoes. So finally we settled. 280 00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:18.480 Now, you know, we flipped on a couple of flashlights. We looked 281 00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:22.359 over there. We didn't see any eye shine. We didn't see we didn't 282 00:19:22.359 --> 00:19:25.359 see anything that could indicate what that could be, you know, And in 283 00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:27.640 my mind it's like, well, I know that mountain lion screams can be 284 00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:33.640 terrifying, and that would be a fine explanation if you didn't whistle the first 285 00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:37.000 time, you know. All right, So one example, well, let's 286 00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:41.839 fast forward three hours later. It's about midnight, midnight thirty, and we 287 00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:45.599 are settling in for the night. A couple of us are standing over the 288 00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:48.640 campfire, and the young kids are in the tent and they're they're nervous, 289 00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:52.559 but they're going to they're ready to go to sleep. Whatever it was circled 290 00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:56.599 around behind the camp to the exact opposite side. So again I said, 291 00:19:56.599 --> 00:20:00.519 the first one was about fifty yards away. This was about twelve yards on 292 00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:06.240 the opposite side, through a big wall of brush, but clearly in the 293 00:20:06.319 --> 00:20:10.839 campground. The same sequence, we get the two whistles, and then even 294 00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:15.319 closer and more insane scream right in our faces. You know, we hit 295 00:20:15.400 --> 00:20:19.559 the record on everything, bust out the two million candlepower spotlight. All you 296 00:20:19.640 --> 00:20:25.119 can see in the video is just the foliage reflecting the giant light. You 297 00:20:25.160 --> 00:20:29.640 know. It's thick brush on that wall right there. And so we're just 298 00:20:29.799 --> 00:20:34.160 like freaked out, you know. And and so then we're looking around. 299 00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:37.319 I see something move. I look over, and this little fox comes out 300 00:20:37.839 --> 00:20:41.599 and kind of trots away, and we were like, oh, okay, 301 00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:45.920 that's what it is. The fox has a has a really big defense mechanism 302 00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:52.640 to find off larger predators. And it was everything we needed just to rationalize 303 00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:55.839 our fear at that time. Because it was so close. We didn't have 304 00:20:55.880 --> 00:21:00.279 any weapons. We just we're just you know, ignorant kind of eye eve 305 00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:04.920 new researchers. But that was enough for us to settle down. And then 306 00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:10.200 again about five hours later, it was about five I remember five twenty three 307 00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:12.200 am. I hear the whistle again, and for some reason, I'd just 308 00:21:12.279 --> 00:21:17.119 woken up and I hear the whistle again. It screams in the middle of 309 00:21:17.160 --> 00:21:22.119 our camp again. But I'm so tired and distraught and mentally just like fried, 310 00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:25.200 like what the hell is going on? And some kids are yelling like, 311 00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:30.440 mister birdle, that's just a fox, right, And I couldn't hear 312 00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:33.039 what he was saying. I was yelling. I'm like, speak up, 313 00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:36.799 I can't hear you. You know, we're all just derailed here, and 314 00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:41.920 so whatever, me raising my voice actually sent it off pretty quickly, and 315 00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:47.119 we heard it scream one more time from the forest as it kind of took 316 00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:51.279 the paths around fish Lake, and that was the last we heard of it. 317 00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:55.960 So and it really wasn't until later the afternoon of that same the day 318 00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:59.200 the next day that we sat and really thought about it, and I said, 319 00:21:59.240 --> 00:22:03.920 you guys, this fox thing is not sitting well with me and everybody 320 00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:06.720 agreed, and we're like, that was not a fox. That was so 321 00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:11.960 immensely powerful that sound, and we kind of said, it sounds like a 322 00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:17.279 mad woman, like a crazed woman of the of the woods, which doesn't 323 00:22:17.279 --> 00:22:21.480 make any sense, but you know, it was with depth. And so 324 00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:27.559 that was the defining moment for me for sure, that holy grat there's something 325 00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:33.359 really big happening out here to this day of the thing that scares me those 326 00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:36.799 about sasquatch, like as far as getting hurt by one is having a heart 327 00:22:36.799 --> 00:22:38.960 attack when they do that scream from point blank, like in the dark, 328 00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:44.680 like hidden just out of view, and just the blast is so just so 329 00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:48.720 overwhelming and tremendously tremendously big and loud and hits you just like you feel it 330 00:22:48.759 --> 00:22:52.839 through your whole body. It's like, man, you could really have a 331 00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:56.759 heart attack in one of those things. Right well, after these events, 332 00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:00.400 the early days of your field experience, you became a bfro o AT investigator 333 00:23:00.440 --> 00:23:06.359 around that time, I'm guessing, and you're still living in California. So 334 00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:11.160 do you remember any particular citing reports or events that you were involved in that 335 00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:17.359 you think would be fun to listen to? Honestly, because I left shortly 336 00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:22.240 thereafter to go to Montana. To come to Montana. It wasn't until Montana 337 00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:26.960 that, you know, it's a little bit more of a You got a 338 00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:30.680 lot of people in California that are into Bigfoot, looking into it, researching 339 00:23:30.759 --> 00:23:34.359 whatnot. And I felt like out in Montana it was quite substantially less folks 340 00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:38.680 out here, you know, and yet many stories going around. So it 341 00:23:38.759 --> 00:23:42.480 wasn't really until out here that I started talking to folks and hearing the different 342 00:23:42.519 --> 00:23:48.559 stories and getting connected with BFRO reports and that type of thing. So I 343 00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:53.240 would I would say one of the most kind of surprising ones that I had 344 00:23:53.279 --> 00:24:00.400 out here was I think Matt called me personally or emailed me person and said, 345 00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:03.480 hey, we've got this. We've got this thing that happened in North 346 00:24:03.559 --> 00:24:06.759 Dakota. We had a flap in North Dakota and we're looking for an investigator 347 00:24:06.839 --> 00:24:10.160 to go and like, my grandparents live out of there. My parents are 348 00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:12.000 from North Dakota. And I was like, yeah, man, I could 349 00:24:12.039 --> 00:24:15.920 check it out. You know, it's an eight hour drive, but it's 350 00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:19.119 big for I'll do it. But at the same time, I'm thinking, 351 00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:22.000 have you guys seen North Dakota. What the hell are you talking about? 352 00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:26.079 You know, it is like the worst drive from like Mandan to Fargo. 353 00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:32.319 It's terrible. But this, this particular incident happened up at Newtown, North 354 00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:37.720 Dakota, and it was which is it's about fifty miles north of Dickinson, 355 00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:42.720 right off the Dickinson's right on the nine ninety four, and in fact it's 356 00:24:42.839 --> 00:24:47.799 right near that huge oil boom a few years ago. But this is way 357 00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:51.799 back and I don't know, I'd say like oh four or so. And 358 00:24:52.839 --> 00:24:57.119 what had happened was there. It was a flap of probably four different sightings, 359 00:24:57.640 --> 00:25:03.880 and it was so interest because it was in the winter, and there 360 00:25:03.960 --> 00:25:07.079 was a guy that worked in the tribal office. It was on a reservation, 361 00:25:07.720 --> 00:25:14.880 and he had taken photographs of a line of tracks along the highway, 362 00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:18.000 and so we had a photograph of a line of tracks. So as I 363 00:25:18.039 --> 00:25:22.319 went up there, we arranged to meet with the folks at the tribal office. 364 00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:27.279 And hearing that somebody was coming to talk about or ask questions about Bigfoot, 365 00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:34.160 and people just started showing up. It was really interesting and so as 366 00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:38.799 we put it together what happened the first incident was north of Lake Sakakawea as 367 00:25:38.839 --> 00:25:45.279 while they call it out there, and there was a mother and two or 368 00:25:45.319 --> 00:25:48.880 three young kids. The kids were outside playing right next to a cornfield or 369 00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:55.960 some field, and a bigfoot had stepped out and walked along the edge, 370 00:25:56.160 --> 00:26:03.160 and of course just in doing so terrified the kids and they the mom heard 371 00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:06.839 them screaming. The mom saw it as it went into the field and kind 372 00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:11.079 of dispeared and all that, and everybody came running inside. We tried to 373 00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:15.920 talk to the mom and have, you know, just to interview her, 374 00:26:15.160 --> 00:26:19.759 and she absolutely refused. She says, I want my kids to forget this 375 00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:22.599 ever happened. And I'm thinking, you know, I've been a teacher for 376 00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:26.960 a long time, that's not good child psychology. That maybe to repress this 377 00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:32.200 experience, right, and so anyway, so we had no luck there, 378 00:26:32.279 --> 00:26:36.720 but through the course of the investigation, what we realized is that somehow it 379 00:26:36.799 --> 00:26:41.200 came from up there in the northern part, came down, then it walked 380 00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:48.359 across the frozen lake Soakakawia, which is almost a mile across frozen ice wide 381 00:26:48.400 --> 00:26:52.279 open. Of course, probably did it at night, right, But I 382 00:26:52.440 --> 00:26:55.960 just thought that was so interesting that it just came across the entire lake and 383 00:26:56.240 --> 00:27:00.319 based on where the next incident was, and it was another gal who was 384 00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:03.279 working in her kitchen, working in her house, and I don't know if 385 00:27:03.319 --> 00:27:07.640 she heard something outside, and maybe she's standing at the sink and washing dishes, 386 00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:11.200 but she looks up at the window and it's staring at her through the 387 00:27:11.319 --> 00:27:15.359 window, which for any normal person's going to scare the living crap out of 388 00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:21.000 you. So she was just absolutely freaked. I think we talked to her 389 00:27:21.160 --> 00:27:23.960 for a little bit, and it shortly after she screamed or whatever, it 390 00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:29.680 took off, and then it went through another person's property and there was a 391 00:27:29.720 --> 00:27:33.799 brief sighting there, and then the final sighting was these three guys were in 392 00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:38.119 a pickup truck and they're driving south on the main highway that heads to Dickinson 393 00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:42.440 and there it is walk They crest a hill on their truck and in broad 394 00:27:42.759 --> 00:27:47.839 daylight, there's the subject walking down the side of the road away from them, 395 00:27:47.880 --> 00:27:51.440 so they see it's back. It turns and looks at them and then 396 00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:55.960 just jumps, jumped, just goes off the edge of the road down into 397 00:27:56.039 --> 00:28:00.279 a little ravine and kind of disappeared down there through the light timber and brush 398 00:28:00.319 --> 00:28:07.680 that they have there because the location is right adjacent to the the Teddy Roosevelt 399 00:28:07.759 --> 00:28:10.759 National Park, which is the bad Lands of North Dakota, and a lot 400 00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:15.920 of those little ravines are filled with timber and brush. It's really interesting terrain 401 00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:22.000 and wind blown and whitewashed, and yet there's there are all these pockets of 402 00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:25.319 timber and whatnot, and so and so we did talk to two of the 403 00:28:25.359 --> 00:28:27.720 guys, the two younger guys in the pickup truck, and they both verified 404 00:28:27.799 --> 00:28:30.880 that. We talked to the guy who took the photographs. I asked if 405 00:28:30.920 --> 00:28:33.880 I could have a copy of the photograph of the line of tracks, you 406 00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:37.400 know, and he said no, no, I'm hoping to sell these, 407 00:28:37.480 --> 00:28:41.480 and I said, good luck. And but what was probably most telling is, 408 00:28:41.559 --> 00:28:48.200 you know how the beliefs can be so strong amongst Native American folks, 409 00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:53.599 and the shortly, like within a couple of weeks after that sighting in the 410 00:28:53.640 --> 00:29:00.640 pickup truck, the older gentleman who was driving passed away unexpectedly, and so 411 00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:03.599 that was a real tough thing for folks to even want to talk about it, 412 00:29:04.039 --> 00:29:10.000 because their belief was that if you see one of these things it's coming 413 00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:14.319 to tell you that something bad is happening. And then the man died two 414 00:29:14.319 --> 00:29:17.960 weeks later, and so it was a very tender, and I say tender 415 00:29:18.079 --> 00:29:26.279 like sore, raw experience for folks to share those stories of what happened. 416 00:29:26.359 --> 00:29:30.400 But I was so surprised, you know, to see that happen in North 417 00:29:30.519 --> 00:29:36.400 Dakota again rolling hills or flat fields with very little cover. But I think 418 00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:41.920 the timber, any kind of cover and brush and that type of thing does 419 00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:45.519 follow the Missouri River all the way back into Montana, and I think, 420 00:29:45.640 --> 00:29:51.319 I think it can hold some cover. But to me, it was still 421 00:29:51.359 --> 00:29:55.119 surprising. Second most surprising thing was then talking to all the folks again. 422 00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:57.319 Like I said, we're sitting in this conference room in the tribal office, 423 00:29:57.720 --> 00:30:02.039 and these folks coming in and coming in, and somebody else has a story, 424 00:30:02.359 --> 00:30:06.240 and then they would tell somebody and they would show up and they were 425 00:30:06.519 --> 00:30:10.200 just a dozen stories. Is I know both of you guys are really familiar 426 00:30:10.279 --> 00:30:17.160 with on the reservations. You just get so many stories and it's so just 427 00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:22.920 common knowledge, you know, about all of these these incidents or reports that 428 00:30:22.039 --> 00:30:27.119 these folks have, And I was just kind of blown away at how many 429 00:30:27.200 --> 00:30:33.519 folks had had stories out there. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond with 430 00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:44.240 Cliff and Bogo. We'll be right back after these messages. That leads me 431 00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:48.079 to another one here in Montana. Obviously, in Montana, we have a 432 00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:52.200 number of reservations here, and you know, and sometimes it's tough to get 433 00:30:52.279 --> 00:30:57.440 in touch with some tribal folks that we're willing to even reply to you and 434 00:30:57.519 --> 00:31:03.039 talk to you about anything. But somehow, I, one of my best 435 00:31:03.079 --> 00:31:06.960 friends, ended up marrying a gal who is part of the Flathead Coote and 436 00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:11.279 I tribe up by pouls in Montana, up there at Flathead Lake, and 437 00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:15.799 got me in touch with a gal who she worked with who has a friend 438 00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:18.079 named Alan, and Alan and I are still friends to this day. And 439 00:31:18.200 --> 00:31:22.680 Alan had gave me a lot of tips about the area up there, and 440 00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:27.680 again on their reservation. It's very very common knowledge that you know that they're 441 00:31:27.799 --> 00:31:32.359 up there, And in fact, Alan was working on a logging crew and 442 00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:36.279 as they were coming down at the end of the day, they're driving down 443 00:31:36.319 --> 00:31:40.240 a gravel road and he happens to look up at the side of the road 444 00:31:40.519 --> 00:31:44.799 and there's one on this open hillside, there's a bigfoot running across, and 445 00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:48.079 he said it unleashed a scream at him and then sprinted up and disappeared into 446 00:31:48.079 --> 00:31:55.000 the timber. And so he's been he's been actively investigating too, and had 447 00:31:55.480 --> 00:31:59.319 had some really cool experiences out there, he shared with me. And so 448 00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:00.440 I've been able to out there a couple of times as well, you know, 449 00:32:00.519 --> 00:32:04.880 and talk to different folks, but mostly hang out with him and talk 450 00:32:04.960 --> 00:32:08.079 about just some of those experiences, you know, the typical well we went 451 00:32:08.200 --> 00:32:12.400 through and when we came back down the road there was a log laying over 452 00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:15.839 the top of it, or we've got these reply wood knocks, or we've 453 00:32:15.880 --> 00:32:19.400 heard some distant vocalizations. And there's an area on the south end of that 454 00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:23.519 reservation called the Jocko. They call it coincidentally enough, right, they call 455 00:32:23.559 --> 00:32:30.880 it the Jocko and that's their wilderness area that frankly, no white man can 456 00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:34.279 go. And I really wanted to investigate that area. And they'll say, 457 00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:37.000 well, you can go up to the edge and this is as far as 458 00:32:37.039 --> 00:32:39.000 you go. You guys can't go in here. And they were very gracious 459 00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:43.359 to me, you know, in allowing me to just check out the area 460 00:32:43.400 --> 00:32:45.960 and everything, but that's the one thing. You can't go into that area, 461 00:32:46.119 --> 00:32:52.319 and that does border what's called the Rattlesnake Wilderness, which is straight north 462 00:32:52.359 --> 00:32:57.039 of Missoula and out of Missoula, and that Rattlesnake area has come a number 463 00:32:57.079 --> 00:33:01.599 of reports too, So you know, it's a thick timbered mountainous area, 464 00:33:01.759 --> 00:33:06.480 and and it's at the southern end of the Mission Mountains, which are really 465 00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:10.279 magnificent, super steep, beautiful mountains. And you know, without a doubt 466 00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:15.119 there's there's an active population up there too. In your general area in Montana, 467 00:33:15.559 --> 00:33:21.240 I don't think there's a lot of investigators out there doing much. I 468 00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:22.440 mean there's some. I know that there's a handful of them, but it's 469 00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:25.079 not like you know, say Washington, where you throw a rock and you're 470 00:33:25.079 --> 00:33:29.480 gonna bring down a couple of bigfoot researchers. You know, out of Montana, 471 00:33:29.480 --> 00:33:32.119 there's just fewer bigfooters doing things. But you're one of them, and 472 00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:36.480 a lot of stories, I imagine, do come your way. And you're 473 00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:40.880 located in Bozeman. Are you finding that the reports come out of the same 474 00:33:42.079 --> 00:33:45.400 areas again and again or do you or they're a little bit more random. 475 00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:52.400 I think what you'll find in Montana is there are pockets of mountainous area. 476 00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:57.960 For instance, if you imagine the town Great Falls, it's kind of like 477 00:33:58.039 --> 00:34:00.240 the center of the state. A little bit to the west inside and anything 478 00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:06.519 east of Great Falls you have a sudden mountain range that pops up, surrounded 479 00:34:06.599 --> 00:34:12.480 by hundreds of square miles of ranches of just flat or rolling hills. And 480 00:34:12.559 --> 00:34:15.960 then a little bit further there'll be another mountain range that pops up as you 481 00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:22.559 of course, as you go further to the northwest, it's heavy timber mountains 482 00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:30.639 going right into the panhandle of Idaho and eastern Washington. And so even here 483 00:34:30.679 --> 00:34:32.679 in Bozeman we have kind of the same thing. We're in a valley and 484 00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:38.559 directly to our northeast is a mountain range that probably runs twenty thirty miles, 485 00:34:39.360 --> 00:34:44.880 and directly south of us is another range, and it's more of a a 486 00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:50.119 thicker, wider chunk of mountainous area that will go south all the way down 487 00:34:50.159 --> 00:34:58.480 into Yellowstone. And so I think what we find is you'll get the reports 488 00:34:58.599 --> 00:35:05.639 from those pockets of areas, and so I obviously they tend to correlate with 489 00:35:06.119 --> 00:35:10.440 those little pockets of mountains. As you get into the further northwest, I 490 00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:15.280 mean there's some serious remote wild areas. The Bob Marshall Wilderness, for instance, 491 00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:24.599 is an immense amount of a million acres essentially square acres that that it's 492 00:35:24.760 --> 00:35:28.960 roadless, it's wilderness, you know, and people just don't go out there 493 00:35:29.039 --> 00:35:34.519 unless you're on foot, and it's so immense that they're just there's just not 494 00:35:34.639 --> 00:35:39.760 a tangible correlation between the population and then going out there because there's so few 495 00:35:40.239 --> 00:35:45.840 folks that that really get into the thick of it there. So I think 496 00:35:45.880 --> 00:35:51.480 it also correlates with the sighting reports will correlate with where people are going. 497 00:35:51.599 --> 00:35:53.800 You know. For instance, there's an area south of Great Falls, between 498 00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:59.800 Helena and Great Falls, little drainage area called the Deerborn River, and there's 499 00:35:59.800 --> 00:36:02.840 been a number of reports that have come out of the Deerborn and so it's 500 00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:08.000 just you know, it's where people are going to recreate and catching the edge 501 00:36:08.039 --> 00:36:14.800 of some of these wilderness areas. And as I was saying about Bozeman, 502 00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:16.639 you know, when you guys were out here with the Finding Bigfoot show, 503 00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:22.280 we talked to a friend of mine named Redge and so directly west of Bozeman 504 00:36:22.519 --> 00:36:25.559 is another mountain range that kind of runs north south, you know, and 505 00:36:25.639 --> 00:36:31.079 then it'll stop and and and there's been a number of reports between here and 506 00:36:31.360 --> 00:36:35.400 Butte, you know. And you've got that the high nineties, the major 507 00:36:35.480 --> 00:36:38.719 major thoroughfare through the state, and those there are reports that come from that 508 00:36:38.880 --> 00:36:45.079 area. And there's a big recreation area even in an off road ATV area 509 00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:50.880 just north of that that freeway that a lot of people will drive through there, 510 00:36:50.920 --> 00:36:53.199 and yet you still have you have reports from that area too, So 511 00:36:53.840 --> 00:36:59.559 so I guess it's it's random in the sense that the state is so damn 512 00:36:59.599 --> 00:37:06.239 big, but they do tend to follow areas of forests and mountains or even 513 00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:12.280 river bottoms. And the case in point is as the Missouri River makes its 514 00:37:12.360 --> 00:37:15.719 way meanders from the Great Falls areas straight to the east, there have been 515 00:37:15.760 --> 00:37:22.119 a number of reports on the river bottoms between Great Falls and say Sydney, 516 00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:28.440 Montana, which seems surprising because that's straight open, similar to North Dakota terrain. 517 00:37:29.119 --> 00:37:31.880 But there have been a number of reports, and those of course coincide 518 00:37:31.960 --> 00:37:37.559 with Native American reservations. So Kelly, I mean like being a you know, 519 00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:40.280 a Copper Forest ranger park ranger. Like everyone knows that that's a great 520 00:37:40.320 --> 00:37:44.840 way to get reports or here stuff. But you being a high school teacher, 521 00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:49.440 like a relatively large high school, you know for Montana, you must 522 00:37:49.480 --> 00:37:52.280 get reports that way through the kids since you're known there's a bigfoot guy, 523 00:37:52.480 --> 00:37:57.639 and like you get a little reports like former students and like parents of students 524 00:37:57.679 --> 00:38:00.239 that sort of thing. Is that a great spot for you, there's away 525 00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:05.880 from you to generate reports. Absolutely, Yeah, it's a great way to 526 00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:09.800 generate that. I'll tell kids about some of my history and share some stories 527 00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:13.599 with them, you know. And it's interesting too, is more and more 528 00:38:13.679 --> 00:38:16.119 kids come through. I feel like there's a higher and higher level of skepticism, 529 00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:20.760 which kind of surprises me a little bit. But it's my job to 530 00:38:20.920 --> 00:38:24.679 educate, so that's what I'm going to do. But yeah, it's a 531 00:38:24.800 --> 00:38:30.280 huge network. You know. It'll be talking about something and after class, 532 00:38:30.360 --> 00:38:32.280 maybe a kid comes up, or even in the middle of class because kids 533 00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:36.119 like to raise their hand and get some attention, and the kid will say, 534 00:38:36.280 --> 00:38:39.119 spurt all my uncle so blah blah blah. You know, gives me 535 00:38:39.239 --> 00:38:49.119 a story or totally random opportunities fall into my lap, which could be a 536 00:38:49.239 --> 00:38:52.119 coworker of mine who said, yeah, whatever, bigfoot, Yeah whatever, 537 00:38:52.360 --> 00:38:57.119 you know. And then he's out elk hunting one time, not too far 538 00:38:57.239 --> 00:39:00.960 from here actually, and he said, yeah, out really early, was 539 00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:02.679 still dark. I was torn trying to get to my spot. So it's 540 00:39:02.679 --> 00:39:08.440 about five in the morning, and I hear the loudest, deepest call I've 541 00:39:08.480 --> 00:39:12.960 ever heard come out of these mountains, and I said, could it have 542 00:39:13.039 --> 00:39:15.360 been cattle? Sometimes they run cattle through there. He's like, I wondered 543 00:39:15.400 --> 00:39:19.800 that too. He's like, no way, that was not cattle, no 544 00:39:19.920 --> 00:39:22.880 matter what. And then in the same area, like a couple months later, 545 00:39:22.920 --> 00:39:25.800 he's hunting Summit generally the same area. Thought he saw something brown through 546 00:39:25.840 --> 00:39:28.760 the forest and he's ready. He's like, oh, it's an elk. 547 00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:31.280 I'm going to go down there. But as he's watching it, he sees 548 00:39:31.480 --> 00:39:36.880 legs, like bipedal legs, take two steps and kind of disappear in the 549 00:39:36.920 --> 00:39:40.239 brush, and he's like, what the hell you know? So and so 550 00:39:40.360 --> 00:39:43.559 it's just happened to be a guy I happen to work with at that time. 551 00:39:43.639 --> 00:39:46.199 And then I have a custodian come to me and tell me Hey, 552 00:39:46.400 --> 00:39:51.440 I know you do Bigfoot. My buddy went up with his wife. They're 553 00:39:51.480 --> 00:39:55.159 backpackers, they're way up in the back forty and they were harassed all night 554 00:39:55.280 --> 00:40:01.199 long. Just growled at green dad, branches, broke, dirt thrown, 555 00:40:01.280 --> 00:40:06.119 I mean, everything was crazy. And he said his wife they've been doing 556 00:40:06.159 --> 00:40:08.559 this their whole life. His wife will no longer go in the mountains with 557 00:40:08.679 --> 00:40:12.760 him, period. Paragraph And I'm like, tell me where it is I 558 00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:15.840 need to go, you know, And the guy says he thinks it's too 559 00:40:15.920 --> 00:40:17.719 dangerous. He doesn't want to tell anybody. And I'm like, dude, 560 00:40:19.760 --> 00:40:22.480 so you know, so I just I sit there helpless sometimes, you know. 561 00:40:23.199 --> 00:40:27.840 Or here's another one. As I mentioned Reg before, he's the guy 562 00:40:27.880 --> 00:40:31.400 who had the sighting that ran across the interstate up on top of the Butte 563 00:40:31.480 --> 00:40:36.880 Hill that Cliff was reenacting some years ago. And Reg just came into my 564 00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:40.320 office one day to look for a bass player. He needed a bass player 565 00:40:40.360 --> 00:40:44.760 for the band. He runs and then he looks at the wall behind me. 566 00:40:44.840 --> 00:40:46.400 He says, so you're into bigfoot, huh. I was like, 567 00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:50.519 yeah, that's cool, and I do that and he says, well, 568 00:40:50.599 --> 00:40:52.679 I saw one, and I said, what he says, well, I 569 00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:55.440 saw one it ran across and you know, and that's how Reg and I 570 00:40:57.320 --> 00:41:00.840 met, basically, and that story just fell into and it's pretty legit because 571 00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:05.760 he was never looking for publicity, you know, and he just told it 572 00:41:05.840 --> 00:41:12.239 as it were. And another kid who's whose trains horses and rides horses in 573 00:41:12.320 --> 00:41:16.719 this arena, and the gal that owns the horse ranch or the arena told 574 00:41:16.800 --> 00:41:22.320 her that she had a sighting. But I had to go to extreme lengths 575 00:41:22.440 --> 00:41:23.360 just to find out, find out, find the gal, you know, 576 00:41:23.400 --> 00:41:27.599 it's to make contact with the gal. And she told me, in fact, 577 00:41:27.639 --> 00:41:31.119 that was one that Bobo had to try to reenact on a major road 578 00:41:31.400 --> 00:41:34.840 just south or just north of Bozeman. And when you guys were out here 579 00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:38.480 too, and she wasn't looking for publicity, it just stumbled across into my 580 00:41:38.599 --> 00:41:43.519 lap. And so I do find a lot of those things happening, and 581 00:41:44.400 --> 00:41:45.679 it's really fun. And I'm sure as you guys find too. You know, 582 00:41:45.760 --> 00:41:51.239 you've got a little bit notoriety with your faces and your shows and whatnot, 583 00:41:51.360 --> 00:41:54.440 but as people hear your story, if you're out to dinner with a 584 00:41:54.480 --> 00:41:59.679 group or and somebody says, call I hear you do some bakefoot stuff, 585 00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:04.159 then it lends itself to another, Yeah, my sister in law or blah 586 00:42:04.159 --> 00:42:07.159 blah blah, and those stories just start popping in. But for sure, 587 00:42:07.360 --> 00:42:12.800 you know, the high school is a pie slice of all of society, 588 00:42:12.920 --> 00:42:21.960 right and and with that you get all different types of networking capabilities. Stay 589 00:42:22.039 --> 00:42:25.360 tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and Bogo will be right back after 590 00:42:25.440 --> 00:42:37.559 these messages, Kelly, I was wondering, what patterns have you noticed even 591 00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:42.199 though over the twenty years now research or in your your zone in Montana, 592 00:42:42.639 --> 00:42:45.440 what do you what do you seem like we're settings like elevation wise, like 593 00:42:45.519 --> 00:42:49.360 certain times of the year. And then what food sources have you seen like 594 00:42:50.079 --> 00:42:55.320 or hear about them repeatedly? Going to man, you've got things from the 595 00:42:55.519 --> 00:43:00.639 spring as the thaw happens, you know, and that's you're not going to 596 00:43:00.760 --> 00:43:07.239 get nearly as much evidence as it were in the winter, I feel because 597 00:43:07.880 --> 00:43:14.760 you have so fewer people generally speaking, that are actually in the mountainous areas. 598 00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:20.599 Because frankly, the Forest Service there's two steps here. The Forest Service. 599 00:43:21.280 --> 00:43:23.960 They first of all, they shut off all the little back roads that 600 00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:28.079 you could go just about anywhere. And that's one thing I've always noticed about 601 00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:31.599 Bluff Creek is, Man, you've got a paved road that will drive like 602 00:43:31.840 --> 00:43:37.599 eighty miles anywhere in the mountains, and then there's offshoots there. I mean, 603 00:43:37.559 --> 00:43:42.519 your access is almost unlimited in Montana, at least in our area. 604 00:43:42.599 --> 00:43:45.679 But I think generally speaking, the fish, Wildlife and parks have basically said 605 00:43:45.719 --> 00:43:50.199 in the Forest Service, actually the for Service has said that we're going to 606 00:43:50.239 --> 00:43:52.960 close us off because we want to keep it more pristine, and so they 607 00:43:53.039 --> 00:43:58.880 closed off so many of those little offshoot roads into that here too. Bluff 608 00:43:58.920 --> 00:44:02.199 Creek's been way shut down like that whole like yeah, like all the forces 609 00:44:02.239 --> 00:44:07.000 out here have then shut down, like they use there's always an like they 610 00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:10.320 always have some kind of and other budgets are less and road maintains is expensive. 611 00:44:10.360 --> 00:44:15.119 But they decommissioned to eighty percent of the roads out out here. I 612 00:44:15.199 --> 00:44:17.599 did not know that. Yeah, so you know, so then you you 613 00:44:17.719 --> 00:44:22.480 couple that with in Irony there to me is okay, we're going to try 614 00:44:22.559 --> 00:44:27.480 to maintain this as a as a wilderness area, but we're going to concentrate 615 00:44:27.719 --> 00:44:31.519 all the human visitation into just these areas and just beat the tar out of 616 00:44:31.599 --> 00:44:37.039 it, right. But secondly, in the winter, then they close off 617 00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:42.480 the main tributaries off the main road entirely because you know, people are going 618 00:44:42.519 --> 00:44:44.639 to try to get up there, and they're going to spend millions of dollars 619 00:44:44.679 --> 00:44:47.880 trying to rescue all these idiot people who don't understand snow driving or what have 620 00:44:49.000 --> 00:44:52.440 you. And so and so the access in the winter, basic is what 621 00:44:52.519 --> 00:44:58.360 I'm saying is you have so fewer people going into the back country in the 622 00:44:58.440 --> 00:45:05.760 winter, relatively speaking, compared to the summer months. And so I think 623 00:45:05.800 --> 00:45:10.559 it's hard to gauge a good weather or a season pattern for that type of 624 00:45:10.639 --> 00:45:15.679 thing. I know there was a really I had a report of a long 625 00:45:15.920 --> 00:45:22.639 line of tracks in the snow. This is years ago on the western side 626 00:45:22.719 --> 00:45:27.440 of it's called Baldy Mountain, just to the west of excuse me, just 627 00:45:27.480 --> 00:45:31.519 to the east of Helena's Canyon Ferry Reservoir. It's one of the biggest freshwater 628 00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:36.280 reservoirs in the state. And and uh, you know, just a long 629 00:45:36.559 --> 00:45:39.199 long line of tracks in the snow. You know, as you guys well 630 00:45:39.280 --> 00:45:44.840 know get you get both and then and then the spring thaw was where they 631 00:45:44.960 --> 00:45:47.719 revealed that footprint which brought the Finding b foot team out here, that footprint 632 00:45:47.760 --> 00:45:52.960 that was submitted to Bfroro by those folks in the mud which is just in 633 00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:57.280 the drainage south of Bozeman right here. So I don't think I give you 634 00:45:57.360 --> 00:46:05.440 a really good ants are in terms of seasonal patterns. No, you didn't. 635 00:46:07.960 --> 00:46:10.840 And I just honestly, I just I think it's it's that and the 636 00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:16.719 extent of the maybe we have seventeen million acres of forest in Montana or in 637 00:46:16.840 --> 00:46:22.119 Montana, and it's kind of like, man, how do you even determine 638 00:46:22.159 --> 00:46:24.400 that? You know? And and then in all fairness, I've been just 639 00:46:24.480 --> 00:46:30.960 kind of unplugged a little bit, having young kids and and so just trying 640 00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:32.840 to start getting back in the game and really getting after this again. I 641 00:46:32.920 --> 00:46:37.400 will say to answer your second question, the food, the food options are 642 00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:42.320 immense. You know, You've got you've got all kinds of freshwater fish in 643 00:46:42.599 --> 00:46:49.440 all the waterways in Montana, including shellfish. We got you know, all 644 00:46:49.559 --> 00:46:53.400 kinds of you call them crayfish or crawdads, but they're they're rampant through the 645 00:46:53.480 --> 00:47:00.320 streams. And you've got any amount of small mammals from we got the woodchucks 646 00:47:00.400 --> 00:47:07.119 to rabbits, to squirrels, to raccoons, porcupines if they want to go 647 00:47:07.239 --> 00:47:10.039 that route, you know, and then a massive amount of deer and especially 648 00:47:10.159 --> 00:47:15.079 elk. The elk population is really high right now in Montana, and in 649 00:47:15.159 --> 00:47:19.360 fact, the fishing game are looking at public comment and how to manage these 650 00:47:19.480 --> 00:47:22.440 massive alkords and so, you know, and not to mention berries, why 651 00:47:22.480 --> 00:47:27.320 do we have such a huge population of bears, because there's also an immense 652 00:47:27.760 --> 00:47:31.760 amount of natural wild berries throughout throughout all of our deforested areas in Montana. 653 00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:35.800 Well, Kelly, it's been great reconnecting with you. I mean, you're 654 00:47:35.800 --> 00:47:37.280 an old friend that we never never have a chance to get together. That's 655 00:47:37.320 --> 00:47:42.159 one of the greatest regrets about finding Bia going off the air is that I 656 00:47:42.199 --> 00:47:45.119 don't get a chance to see my friends that I would see every once in 657 00:47:45.159 --> 00:47:47.599 a while because I'm not traveling extensively like I used to see, or like 658 00:47:47.679 --> 00:47:52.639 I like I used to do. And I don't think i've even seen you 659 00:47:52.760 --> 00:47:54.360 since we filmed in Bozeman. I know, we reach out every once in 660 00:47:54.400 --> 00:47:58.199 a while and say hi and the stuff, but it was great to reconnect 661 00:47:58.239 --> 00:48:00.039 with you once again. So we got to make sure that we do this 662 00:48:00.039 --> 00:48:02.079 little bit more often. Yeah, definitely, I feel the same way. 663 00:48:02.159 --> 00:48:09.079 And you know, there's the people like minds and like purpose are just you 664 00:48:09.159 --> 00:48:14.360 know, they are special people in our lives. And I definitely appreciate the 665 00:48:14.480 --> 00:48:17.639 time I've had with both you guys and learned from your expertise, and you 666 00:48:17.719 --> 00:48:21.679 know, and hopefully we all learn from each other. And I just love 667 00:48:21.760 --> 00:48:24.199 hanging out with you guys too, And so anytime you're in the area, 668 00:48:24.280 --> 00:48:27.960 you let me know, and I'd love to love to see in person. 669 00:48:28.400 --> 00:48:30.400 Yeah, Kelly, thanks so much, and good luck all your adventures you 670 00:48:30.480 --> 00:48:34.039 got going on, and say how to the kids for us, I certainly 671 00:48:34.079 --> 00:48:36.159 will. Guys, thanks so much for the time. I appreciate it, 672 00:48:36.880 --> 00:48:39.960 all right, bar all right, folks, hit like hit share, give 673 00:48:40.039 --> 00:48:45.800 us some comments on Google Reviews. We appreciate it very much, and until 674 00:48:45.960 --> 00:48:53.719 next week, you all keep it Squatchy. Thanks for listening to this week's 675 00:48:53.719 --> 00:48:58.519 episode of Bigfoot and Beyond. If you liked what you heard, please rate 676 00:48:58.639 --> 00:49:01.840 and review us on iTunes, Subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you get your 677 00:49:01.920 --> 00:49:07.039 podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. 678 00:49:07.559 --> 00:49:12.719 You can find us on Twitter at Bigfoot and Beyond that's an N in the 679 00:49:12.760 --> 00:49:17.440 middle, and tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag Bigfoot and Beyond