Made decision Sunny Sun, I had nice what's up everybody? We have our
special guest episode today. We have two beautiful young ladies in the studio,
Amanda Lifford and Ant Maddox. We signed an NDA podcast. Yes for being
here, Thank you for having those guys. Hate taking the high road and
not having to uh, not being able to really talk about like what you
really want to say because you had to sign an NDA. I thought you
went to one oh one because that's how I got it is a little hot.
The air quality as bad as my Alexa would tell me. There's a
lot of traffic talk on this show. Yeah, there's a lot of like
and then I had to take the four oh five. People make fun of
us for being like that SNL the California, Yeah, but it's such a
it is a big part of living in LA. For sure. You care
your day to traffic, Yes, totally. And I think to your point
about like the actual like you know, metaphorical high road, Like I think
I'm pretty anxious. I think if I'm doing something that feels in any way
like below bored, like it just like stresses me out. My parents are
both saints, and so I think I've just like kind of had this like
ingrained, like just the way that they behave in the world, even though
I don't I'm nowhere near as good a person as them, Like I do
think that's just kind of like the way I go through stuff. So I
think it's like it's kind of a it's the way we aspire to treat people
and also make me really scared. Yeah, I'm very much controlled by like
fear based like worries and you know, like lawyers, people with more money,
X boses coming out too scary. I feel like your podcast is probably
the wrong vehicle for you then, because I like living on the edge.
Let's do a medium that's based on us blabbing. Yeah, exactly, okay,
So and you are you were Tom Sandoval's assistant persistent then you were briefly
Ariana's No or you still are? So are you just interviewed? No?
I well that too, but I now work for something about her the sandwich
Shop. So you but you did interview on vander Pump Rules to be Ariana's
Yeah, yeah, yeah, assistant. But did you not get the job?
No? No, no, they what happened was sandwich Shop. Yeah,
Arianna hired me to work for something about her her company with Katie and
I do uh like a little bit a tiny bit of social media customer relations.
I like, you know, communicate with with questions that people like send
in do you have glue and free bread? Yes we do and yeah,
and then I sometimes pop in the shop help out wherever I can, just
like regular assistant duties there. So okay, so be honest. Yes,
is it a real job. It's a real like for the show. I
mean I think it's a real job. I think it's getting I hope I'm
getting. Yeah. I mean, like you don't know, you don't go
in like all the like every were every day mostly remote. Yeah, so
I get to it's mostly like an internet job. So so that's very nice
for me. Yeah, I have like it's flexible hours. I think,
you know, Arianna is very supportive of like my my acting and improv and
comedy stuff. So so she like they found a position for me where I
could work remotely most of the time, which is nice. That's great.
Yeah, okay, Okay, and Amanda, you were Nick viall from from
The Bachelor The Vile Files. You were his You weren't his assistant, but
you were like were for the show. Yeah, sort of like sidekick.
Yes, Like I guess, I don't know. I would say in some
regards by the end, like co hosts kind of thing that I got to
participate in interviews and like ask questions and whatnot. Yeah, I was a
fan. Oh my gosh. Yeah, I always agreed with your takes.
Oh thank you. No, I did. I did. And I feel
like it must have been a little bit difficult, uh, sometimes being the
only one or being the being the one that would push back. Yeah,
I think it was, like, I mean, the Bostonian me is like,
come at me, like, yeah, Boston Verse world, everybody hates
us, but we're still gonna win this one. So like, I think
there is a part of me that's pretty spirited and doesn't feel super intimidated like
I think ideologically I didn't feel in you know, like I love different viewpoints,
and it was cool being like, okay, like if it's fine,
if I'm the only one who's like saying this, I still believe it and
I'm happy to like engage with it. And I think we had some really
interesting discussions. I do think, you know, of course, there's like
this professional element of like I'm working, I'm having a kind of a debate
with the superior, and so I think there was a lot of like nuance
and how to do that effectively, And so I think I learned a ton
about like how do you have conversations in a way that like doesn't shut the
conversation down, but actually like like how do you actually like disagree on something
and continue to talk about it, Because I think so often it's like it's
like, well, we disagree, and it's like okay, but go from
there. Ye yes, yeah, but but but but ye and also I
hear you also, and then it's something that's totally diametrically opposed to what they
just said. Yes, yes, yes, also no, not at all
totally. Yeah. Did you have times where you pushed back and then left
and felt anxious like, oh did I push it too far? As he
mad? Huh, I don't. I've just been in that situation a million
times with jobs where I'm just like, oh, did I push too hard?
I would? I think, and being a woman say, it's really
hard as a woman to not come up, you know what I mean to
Yeah, I feel like a fine line that definitely is that feeling is there
of like, oh, I don't want to be like the bitchy one in
the office, so you know, yeah, Like I feel like the privilege
of being a man is that no one's going to really like see you as
like the bitchy person, like you're just saying your feelings, whereas like being
a woman, it's like, oh I hate that. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, I always be nice totally, Like yeah, And I think if
anything to like to that point, like I think there were sometimes where I
was like, should I have gone harder to the paint on this? Like
I don't think I ever really felt like I think, what if there was
stuff like I was I loved that job, the stuff that we talked about,
like I think reality TV and people in the way that they like interact
and like and and I talk about this all the time about how it's like
it is like these so much of it is like hilarious stupid bullshit, like
women in pilground costumes like calling each other like silly cancer, you know what
I mean, Like stuff like that. Yes, I'm so sorry. I
hope we are allowed to swear. I went in the heart not a tester
swear side exactly. So I think it's like you know, of course there's
like the silly bullshit to reality TV, but like so much of it is
it's like we're talking about psychology and the way people like treat one another.
And so I think with that stuff because I feel really interested and opinionated on
it. Like I don't think I ever felt super intimidated. It was more
just like, how do I do this in a way that's like approachable,
And I think like having disagreements with people or like just not even the disagreement,
but just where you're coming from different viewpoints, like doing so in a
way that doesn't like shut someone down and make them feel like a huge moron.
I think it is something that I've been thinking about a lot. You
also always have like respect for the other person when you're you know, countering
an opinion, Yeah, which I think is very important, totally, like
any discussion that might be a little prickly. Yeah, yeah, you were
you doing the show when all the Rachel Lindsay Chris Harrison stuff went down.
Yes, I'm interested in how that went because I know how I felt about
it and doing a show. So I had a black co host at the
time, Angel Lakita Moore. I love and it was really interesting and she
was kind of new. It hit like all the races and accusations and the
the sort of come to Jesus about that stuff happened when my co host was
kind of new, and I was like, I'm so sorry that I brought
you into this show, like and you now have to be the black woman's
voice, you know. But yeah, it was really interesting. Like we
played the interview like, I mean, I found it appalling and I'm wondering
how I don't remember where Nick fell on Like it was I felt, do
you remember what we're talking about? Was it racist? Or was it just
like narky and conness and saying her name right? What was it Rachel?
Like like he was just being such a dick. Yeah, Because I think
so much of it is like the like there's nuance in like I mean,
there's some of it where it's like, no, this is just racist,
or like the debate I think is like very one side. But then there
is also this element of like part of it is the way that you're like
at this woman's place of work, where she is tasked with being poised and
pleasant and polite, and you're speaking to her in ways that infuriate me,
and I'm a white woman who can't deal with this, like to catch people
up really quick. Basically, uh, Matt James was the bachelor at that
season and Rachel kirk Canal was the one that he ended up picking. But
some stuff came out where she'd posed in some plantation party attire, and they
were all like a couple of other things, like it's nothing crazy, nothing
over the top, Like you could argue that maybe she really didn't know better,
And nobody was saying Rachel Kirknell is an awful racist. We weren't canceling
Rachel Kirkkennel. I don't know why I just said me like I had anything
to do with it. But the point was that Rachel Lindsay was having to
kind of speak up for a lot of what black people felt and as the
first black bachelorette, and she was being asked about it. And Rachel basically
was having an interview with Chris Harrison, who, when all this stuff came
out, was kind of talked and the problem wasn't even having a nuanced conversation
about it. It was that he was not interested in having a nuanced conversation
and he was basically being a like accusing her of not showing Rachel Kirkkenel any
grace because you know, Rachel was like, yeah, it sucks. It
was not a good look. And he was like was it not a good
look? And now seven or to yeah, and She's like, it's just
never a good look. What's my? What's my? What do I what
would I be at the plantation party? Like I would be the slave basically,
And then Chris Harrison just was not hearing it, shut her down,
didn't listen to her, and and Rachel Lindsey was so calm and collected and
did not really argue back with him, and then they ended the interview,
and I think she felt shitty, and apparently Chris Harrison called her or texted
her right after and was like, I thought that one great. Ra was
like okay, hold on, you'll see yeah, And people went nuts.
But I'm so wondering, like that was a huge blow up. And then
Chris Harrison lost his job and I'm sure Nick had some loyalty also to Chris,
ha like how did he handle it? And how did you feel?
Well? I think it's it's interesting because The Bachelor is a show. I
think when you see the way that it's just like so unifying of like how
wide the demographic is where it's like you have the southern girlies who are probably
watching this being like fuck I went to a plantation party. I went my
sister, did whoever else or like, I don't know, and I think
to the issue at the core of it, that was an area where I
was like, even though I'm very adamantly like pro Rachel Lindsay and her entire
outlook on it, like I do wonder the degree to which I can condemn
Rachel kirkconel like from a place of I was really protected from that stuff.
I grew up in Boston. I had like in a really progressive family,
Like I was never going to be at that party. So it's like there
there definitely was an element of like I was very interested in, like how
do we have a conversation about like for people who aren't educated And we can
all say it's so fucked up and wrong that they're not educated, but the
situation is people aren't educated, So like how do we address that, Like
I do you know, there were some areas where it was just like a
very nuanced thing and you're talking to the span base where there's like such fervor
on both sides kind of politically and socially. And so I think I something
that I learned a lot at the Vile Files that I would not have done
is like I think if I were to do a show would be I'm sure
people would say it was political because of the way that I would like talk
about stuff, my attitudes or takes on things. And I think this a
warning. People get real mad. They get real mad. They got real
mad. Yeah, they go shut up. I don't listen to this show
to hear about your politics. Right, It's interesting, It's so interesting.
So much politics is like woven into reality TV? I agree, How how
can you not talk about it? So it's into reality TV into our own
families, Like, you know, there are things that we need to talk
about. Did other people deem as political that are about our lives? Yes,
so exactly and a reflection of current times, you know, so we
need to talk about it, yes, And I think that's I think the
way a lot of people on maybe like a different kind of political leaning than
myself feel, or like a sentiment that I hear is like, well,
can't we just have pure entertainment. Can't we just have fluff, Like,
can't this not be related to politics? And it's like no, because there's
people are dealing with these deeply ingrained systems, and these systems reach to these
areas. So that's why we're talking about it. Now. I'm not saying
you're never allowed to have fun and like everything needs to be political, but
like it's just a part of this. It's irrelevant. I think it's interesting.
I think I want to hear, like I would tune even though I'm
watching a stupid show like The Bachelor, Like I would tune into you know,
Nick's podcast to hear his take on not not to condemn Rachel Kirkanell at
all, but to hear about like, but what did you think about that
interview? Like to me, the problem was Chris Harrison interviewing Rachel. Yes,
its a huge issue, Yeah, exactly. Don't empathize with the racist
ideals, Like you can't empathize with like a person who's you know, naive
and does and then realizes, oh what I did was racist. Just call
it racist, Like just say, hey, that was really shitty, like
you know, and then allow the bipop woman to speak, you know,
listen to her instead of being like Adam, I mean difficult, Yeah,
like is the undertone of that So yeah, I think it. But then
so as much as like for me, I'm like okay, like I yeah,
I like so agree with that, and like there's ways that I would
dicuss it that would probably feel political. I did see kind of firsthand,
like, oh, it's interesting how I think that, Like Vile Files had
listeners across, like from all over the political spectrum, and to me,
there is there's something interesting about being able to conduct a show in a way
where you're still getting that spread as opposed to echo chambers. And like,
I don't have an answer on like, you know, if it's to what
extent you're compromising ideals and values by trying to kind of speak in a way
that doesn't ostracize every like certain groups of people. But I do think there
it is interesting to think about, like, oh, okay, well,
if you're having a conversation in a way that keeps both sides engaged, like
yeah, yeah, that just interested me. I don't think I'm not like,
oh, that's the only the best way to do it, because I
do think I'm just inherently maybe a little bit more. There's certain stuff where
I'm like, I don't think I can entertain this and be like, well,
both have good points. Yeah, I don't think both have good points
for certain issues. But like it is, I don't know there. I
do think there is value in spaces where at least you have people who disagree
who are still consuming the same stuff as opposed to these like terrifying Facebook group
echo chambers. Yeah. Well, and also you're always going to offend somebody.
Yeah, like your opinion. Yeah, You're always going to have somebody
that's like you shouldn't be having an opinion about this because you don't know.
And it's like, no matter what it is about, Like it could be
about your opinion about your friends, your family, your politics, whatever,
everybody's gonna have an opinion. And like if you I don't know, I
always if we do a podcast, you guys do a podcast, the best
thing is just to just ignore. I know it's hard, especially you guys
are young, but like I try try not to read all that negative comments,
yeah, because then it's gonna it's gonna get to your head and then
it'll like affect your how you you don't conduct yourself I'm so bad about that
though, because I like have this like Bambi naive like idea that obviously some
people are like miserable hags like gender neutral. In fact, a lot of
the hags are man out there, but like some people are just like saying
shit. But I also like sometimes I read comments that are negative that like
I find thought provoking, and like, you know, especially in the Vile
File, some of the negative comments, it's like, well, you know,
maybe I did say stuff and it didn't make the final clout of an
episode, Like maybe you know, this criticism doesn't feel in hirely fair,
but like sometimes it's like I feel like feedback is so important. I think
both of us coming from an improv background, like you can tell when the
audience is with you, and so I think even though I know that it
is like probably damaging to like your creativity, there's also a part of me
that's like, but of course I want to incorporate how others are thinking about
this, and like like just be humble enough to evolve. That's a fine
line to yeah, sure, yeah, but I think that's I'm sure I'm
gonna read one column that's gonna be like I'm out I can't do this anymore.
This is about this every day for the next ten years. Like guys,
you guys are I want to ask you guys about improv But we got
to take a quick break. Okay, we'll come back. I feel like
Anne was has been trying to say something for a while. Oh no,
I was just gonna say earlier. Let's say if I can remember what I
was gonna say. But then the next Bachelorette is going to be an Asian
American woman. It's the first Asian American woman on the Bachelorette. Yes,
a bechlorrette. And how could that not be political, you know what I
mean? Like and like for her, it's probably a lot of pressure representing,
you know, to this audience every Asian American woman, like single,
trying to find marriage, and it's like incorporating. You know, you're I
come from uh you know, my dad's white, my mom's Asian, and
it's like interracial couples. It's there's when you meet the parents, it's gonna
be a new experience to you know, the American audience who's not used to
interracial uh coupling in marriages. So it's I mean like it's gonna be part
of the discussion no matter what, you know. So I have a question
for you regarding that. Yeah, because my co host on my show Rose
Pricks, we just did a cast roast we call it. We went through
all of her men that she had so far, and they only gave her
one Asian guy. And I thought that was just weird because it's like,
Okay, I'm not saying that that she has to be with an Asian guy,
but if she's the first Asian bachelorette, wouldn't you isn't it weird to
be like, but we're not really into Asian guys, Like wet, here's
one yeah, like a one token. Yeah, you think it would be
normal that you'd have a few, right, Like there's the guys. Yeah,
I'm saying it's so it was. It was so weird to me and
my co host. And like, statistically on dating apps, Asian men and
black women are like the least swiped on groups like these are the people who
are most like discarded by the population as whole as a whole, And I
think there's like, you know, I'm sure like many people who are like
better educated or who are Asian men who could speak to this experience so much
more than me. But I do think it's like, yeah, you see
these like parallels of society where it's like, oh, we're like, dude,
there's some fucking hot Asian guys. You know. It's it's pretty crazy
that they couldn't like like how many people apply for the show, and like
they still didn't have a cast and like, I don't know, Yeah,
there's so many Asian cultures and countries too, it's like you can't just have
one token totally exactly. Yeah, yes, yeah, that is so interesting.
I noticed that I was watching Perfect Match. Do you guys watch Perfect
Match? I haven't watched. I just binge two seasons. I have young
kids are very into that kind of thing. But I did notice a thing
with the black women getting kicked out first, like they were not the hot
commodity, and I was like, this is so sad. And it's almost
every time, almost every time, the black woman is the one who ends
up eliminated, and I was like, this is uncomfortable to watch. Yeah,
it's so like once you see it, you can't unsee it. I
think that's why, like sometimes there's just like criticism I think from the right,
like this conspiracy you were still almost like you're like you're being a conspiracy
theorist and it's like no, literally watch the show. Like even like this
most recent season of the Bachelor, I felt like Rachel, the woman of
color who made it the furthest like I just felt like her love story was
less fleshed out. Like I think this like systemic. Even if there are
women of color who make it further on in the show, they're systemically under
like Princess affected and like they they just get less confessionals in talking and yeah,
it's like it's across all reality TV shows, Like when you just look
for it, you see it. It's not that hard. I haven't seen
a white lead pick a black uh contestant basically, I mean that hasn't I
haven't seen that. I've seen the black lead well, Charity Pig Doton Dotton
yeah, Dotton, Yeah, but she over Joey, which was but still
that's the reverse. That's the black male. Do you know what I'm saying.
You don't really see the white guy. You see sometimes the black women
get far, but like you said, they're not picked. Yeah, has
happened. And I remember the first time, like because there was conversations about
about this, like, you know, amongst the fans, but the first
time it was mentioned on the show, I was like, yes, let's
talk about it, like finally, like this needs to be brought up,
and I was, Yeah, I was glad that became part of the conversation.
Yeah. Yeah, but people wouldn't want to talk about it. People
don't want to talk about it. Yeah yeah, damn, So tell us
about how you guys met, right, Yeah, I wanted to know about
Yeah, how did you guys meet? And also about your Are you guys
both in improv? Yeah? We were women in improv probably that's how we
met. Yeah, really Protestan's brigade, right yeah, yeah, okay,
and then I actually I've performed there a few times. I have never paid
for the UCB classes. Oh you haven't. Yeah, I paid for IO
in Chicago and loved it. But it's just six hundred dollars, you know.
And then YouTube five of them and it's like, for maybe he'll be
like one of the three hundred graduating people who gets on a tu like which
which Anne was so like, power to her, right, and that's amazing.
But yeah, we actually met through like more of the people who like
I think, like UCB has become this pipeline for like people who are like
I would like to be on Saturday Night Live and write for the Simpsons,
And so it's become like so much more like I think, like a pipe
industry pipeline as opposed like a weird little freaky creative community. And I think
as a result there now there's new weird, little freaky creative improv communities.
And I like met through one of those, but then did actually we did
do shows together through that at UCB, Yes, And then that's how we
became closer and closer. It was like doing shows. We'll get cast in
the same shows together and we'll be like, oh, I love you yeah,
And then you started talking and realize that you both are assistants, yeah,
support staff in the reality TV world. It's just like, oh damn,
Like we both have this like real, like up close view of what
reality to me is like for the it's subjects. And it was so interesting
and complicated, and it was so cool to find someone who they got it
immediately and who like aired on the side of compassion, like yeah, yeah,
it's important. And we lived across the street from each other. Oh
wow, But so, Amanda, you're from Boston and where are you from
Tokyo? Rarely? Ye, Oh my gosh, going to Tokyo in a
couple of weeks. Oh my gosh. That's the very second time he's going.
Do you know what part of Tokyo he's going, He's I don't know.
Okay, it's a huge city. I know there's all these different what
do they call him regions? Yeah, but not they're called something else,
but anyway, start with a K. I know that it would be anything.
But yeah, so you grew up there, then I did. When
did you come here? I came here when I was eighteen? Oh really?
Yeah? But I but my dad's American. He was a diplomat for
the US Embassy, so he was he worked at the US embasc in Japan.
And my mom's Japanese and so I had like a very both cultures involved
in my how I grew up, Like, I went to an American school
in Japan. But you know, there's it's definitely like Japanese American communities.
It was Japanese your first language though pretty much, well I think both was
my first language, but definitely, like you know, like my dad was
still in the Navy when I was born, so you know, he would
he would go out travel for a couple of weeks and come back. And
then I think when I was like one or two years old, he was
like, you know what, I want to stay. I want to be
closer to my family. So okay, Yeah. So then, so did
you just decide to move here on your own when you were eighteen? No,
Well, because I have because of my dad, I have like a
US citizenship, and my parents pretty much like raised me to have a US
college education, Like they really wanted me to have my college education in America
and that's kind of why I went to an American school in Japan. Yeah,
so I feel like, I don't know. I just was like,
yeah, my parents plan this for me. I guess this is what I'm
doing. Yeah. And then, so how did you get hired on for
Tom? Like, how did that go down? Was it like TV interview,
real interview? Tell us the story. Yeah, I was working at
the Greek Theater and because I, you know, would do acting and you
know, shoot commercials and stuff and small TV roles, and so I had
enough confidence after booking a few things where I needed a job where I could
like audition during the day and then work at night, or like if I
had a show at UC Beer wherever, I could like take that day off.
So I worked at the Greek Theater, which was great. I loved
working there, but then COVID happened and then all concert venues shut down,
so I really needed a job, and I posted on Facebook like, Hey,
these are the things that I've been an assistant. I've done this and
that. If you know of any opportunities, let me know. A mutual
friend of me and Ariana's comedian was like, oh, I actually do know
someone who needs a personal assistant, and I was like great, So I
applied and one phone interview later, I got the job. COVID. Yeah
yeah, yeah, yeah, I feel like you immediately passed the vibe check.
You're like, oh, yeah, she's a sweetheart also being vouched for,
Like the mutual friend is like, you know knows me very well,
knows Ariana very well. So I was like, oh, this this works
out. So did you know right away that you it would involve being on
the show. No, no, yeah, no, The intention was for
me to not at all be on the show, and that's how Yeah,
that's how I was like great at the time, I was very like afraid
of the concept of reality. Like I loved watching it, but you know,
if you like fart and step and Pooh or whatever, it's every you're
gonna be the Pooh girl for the rest of your life. Like there's that.
It's stuck in my head, you know. So, and you know
your boss is the star, like that's that's who you're working for. It
wasn't until the scandal and everything that happened where it kind of became this odd
necessity to have someone for him to like talk to, because I think none
of the cast members really wanted to be the sound board for his feelings.
So it just kind of made things a little easier to have his assistant there.
It's like a built in person he could it makes sense for him to
talk about his feelings too. So did production come to you and say,
hey, we want to shoot this scene with you and Tom, like Tom
talking to you about what's going on? Yeah, plus plus the go between
element, I think the audience was really curious about and they want to know
how that worked. So it was like with that and the you know,
and the the emotional being the emotional soundboard. It they yeah, that's kind
of why, and it made enough sense where I was like, oh,
I'll probably just do like one thing. You know, no one's gonna know,
because like I watched, like I'm watching Real Housewives in New York right
now, and and Bethany's assistant, you know, pops in. But it's
it's definitely like Bethany's assistant just like sitting in front of the computer and then
Bethany talking about like, oh this happened, and she's like, wow,
that's crazy. So I thought I was just gonna be there going that's bananas.
Are you getting her, by the way on your show? I would
love to if you're listening, any assistance please reach out to Yeah. Yeah,
so that's what you thought it would be. And then your role got
bigger. Yeah yeah yeah, I mean you're pretty much beloved at this Oh
thank you? Oh my god? Do you think I hope? So yeah
in the audience, so so yeah, it's like, you know, big,
like, oh what a cool club? Like I love I like read
all the I follow all the Instagram accounts like Problem Investigator and Reality and all
of them, and I love them so like kind of being in the midd
Like, now a voice in the club is like very exciting to me.
That's cute. So tell us, like what you can I know, I
know you signed an NDA, but like when things were going down with Tom
and like towards the end this last season, what was he really getting annoyed
that you were talking to Ariana? Like, I mean they showed some kind
of tension. Yeah, you know, there's definitely I can say there's definitely
there was definitely tension that NDA won't let me go into any specific right,
but yeah, what what you see on the show was definitely definitely there.
Yeah, form I feel like as a viewer, so like just kind of
speaking from like everything lawyers, from what has been aired on national television,
I think you could kind of see, like I think, to Tom this
like it seemed his perception was very much like how could this be done to
me? Like yet another person raging against me in this like horrible pylon of
everybody hating me kind of thing. Like it seems like for him it was
just very much like it was just a huge bummer and he felt like I
think he was like very much viewing it through the eyes of like why would
an assistant want to spite me like that. But I think it's like when
you see like Anne in her interview with Arianna, she's like like you can
just see they get along really well, and she's like, I would love
to work for like a female focused business. I think when you see something
about her like it's yes, it is like a I think a lot of
the attention comes from the fact that's by these like reality stories, but it's
an awesome business idea, like sandwiches have, like like it's so fun to
be like let's create this like feminine flair element to it, Like it's just
a good business plan. They make good food, and like, I think
it's so valid for Anne to be like as someone who's the go between between
these two people, like you know, there's just one that I connect with
more in it. It makes a lot of sense when you're in in any
other industry, like if you have a client who you really connect with,
it's not that weird to them eventually like maybe pursue a business venture with them
down the line, And so I think, yeah, as a well,
I think in the show is framed as this like big personal betrayal, but
I think when you like are like, no, but this is Anne's real
life, this is her career, this is her job. Clearly it was
a really intense job and there was an opportunity that was just a better fit.
Like yeah, working for like a female like you know, it celebrates
women and and it takes uh you know, like I know the how do
I say this? Like the sandwich industry, like it is like a male
kind of driven world, you know where it's like that sells Jersey give me
John's Like yeah, like where you're like that there is a point to this,
like yeah, it's maybe non binary, but it's like it's a male
dominated industry. Yeah, and that's true, guys. Why can't it be
Jersey Michelle? You know, ladies love a sandwich. Yeah, take It's
an interesting point of view. And and to use that as a means to
celebrate femininity sounds amazing to me. And you know, just having a shop
a place where it's like it feels safe to just be as as feminine as
you want, you know, or as non feminine as you want. Like
I think it's a wonderful thing. Like food in my culture, like food
is a way of showing love and you know, and and getting together and
so you know, showing love to women and having a place where we could
always get together no matter what. It's like, that's all sassy. Besides
that, I think Tom seemed like a bad person to work for. I
mean, I'm just saying that you're saying, he's saying that. From watching
the show, I was like, that just seems like this, just anything
seems like a better deal than like picking up after Tom Sanderval and listening to
him wine it could be a victim. I can say it got rough towards
the end after the scandal dropped. It was definitely a rough environment. Yeah,
emotionally intense well yeah, I bet, I bet? Might I say
toxic? Well, and especially like all the the news surrounding it. I
mean, my god, it's Amazon CNN scrawl, you know at the bottom,
like everybody was talking about it. I also, you know, I
do have a condition. I was diagnosed with CPTSD PTSD and you know,
being in a very stressful work environment like that isn't conducive to my mental health.
So definitely like the opportunity to work for not just like another job where
you know, I don't have to like worry about my disorder, but also
like something that I'm really interested in. Uh, it just seemed like the
right way to go for you. Thank you. Let's take another quick break.
We'll be right back. Thank you. We're back. Yeah, So
tell us more about the podcast. So you're interviewing like assistance and are they
all people who have also signed an NDA, Like how do you get around?
So you're just talking about like assistant life. Tell us more about the
vibe of the show. Yeahs of people who signed NDAs and people who haven't
signed NDAs. So that's really fun. You know. I think I think
we both know what it's like to have signed an NDA and you know,
talk about things without talking about things. So I feel like people who have
signed an NDA are comfortable when coming on the show, and we make make
sure that they know that anything that they don't want to say, anything that
they want cut out, is cut out. Like they they are the they
get to steer the ship, right. Yeah. I want to say that
what I love about your show, because I listened to many episodes, was
that you guys, even though you signed an NDA, you're very like open
with your opinions. None of it is like, well I can't I can't
even talk about that, because you were talking about breaking down the episodes of
vander Pump and it was really fun. It was like listening to like Nick
breakdown episodes of The Bachelor, Like I felt like we were getting some inside
base all stuff. But still like you but and funny. You guys are
very funny and personable. But it was like fun to listen to to get
that your angle on what you're seeing on the show. So they don't hold
back, right, no, I know. And then and you guys had
interesting guests too, Like is it hard getting some of these people to come
on the show. Do they get intimidated about talking about their jobs and stuff?
Yeah? I think especially people like I feel a lot more comfortable talking
about like past roles than like present roles. And I think because it's an
industry that's so reputation based, and like I think, for so much of
your career, until you have your own like cultural capital, star power,
whatever, it is like you're just you're trying to find people who will continue
to vouch for you and continue to employ you. So I get that it's
like a very it can feel really vulnerable, even if like you're not gonna
say anything negative. I do think there's a way where like assistance supports stuff,
like anybody who works with high profile people, like a big part of
the role is trust and being like I'm not gonna spill your shit on the
internet, like I'm going to resp your privacy, And so I think doing
the show in a way that like upholds that under the bargain where it's like,
of course, we don't want to get sued. I also like it
would feel really morally wrong to be like airing stuff that people like that people
trust us with, even if it was like some secret thing that was kind
of unenforceable, like that would feel shitty. Conversely, I think it's crazy
no one's done this before because Hollywood assistant supports staff like oh you know the
fucking tea. Yeah, Like, and it's so interesting, like just like
when I first moved out here and my first roommate here was an assistant at
one of the major agencies here and just like hearing about her day and just
like the culture there, and like like the way various celebrities emails and also
just like casting director politics, like just understanding how it all works is so
interesting and it's insane that nobody has like passed the mic to assistance before this,
because it's like, you know, it's like when we see news stories,
like of course some of it is like just like the pop culture fan
reactions, but some of it is like, oh my god, like their
PRT must have done X y Z like their assistance. Like you just kind
of like, once you know how things work a little bit more, it's
like it's just like you interpret it differently, And so I think the premise
was being like, oh, other people who have like kind of seen the
way this machine operates, Like it's not even about spilling the secrets about their's
first hand experience. It's about like the insights they would apply to any new
situations, right, having just understood this system better. Yes, I don't
know why this metaphor popped up the plan. It's gonna be bizarre, so
just try to follow along. Maybe you might have to cut this out because
it doesn't make any sense. But like I remember going to what is it
like the MGM studios when I was a kid, like the Disney tour and
seeing the Golden Girls House and being like, oh my god, it's the
Golden Girls House. And then you realize that behind the house is just a
propped up wall, Like it's just like beams and there's no house, there's
no living room. You're just seeing like a facade. And assistants like get
to see behind that and like how what is real and what's not? And
I think that's like very important. Plus on top of that, personal assisting
it's a bizarre job if you think about it, Like I remember when I
first came to LA and being like that's a job, Like you just hang
out with like a celebrity and get their groceries and stuff like that's bananas.
Yeah, it's like you do like the fifty percent of life that like nobody
wants to fucking do, Like nobody wants to answer this emails, nobody wants
to register their car at the DMV, Like nobody wants to do that.
And so it's like and for someone who's incredibly busy and in a financial position
where they can have someone else do it, they're gonna do that. Yeah,
And then in all of these like intimate everyday moments of life, you
get such an insight into people's world. Yeah. Oh yeah, I had
a friend that was a personal assistant to a let's just say it's a house
one of the housewives throughout all the years, there's a billion of them.
Yeah, but one of the housewives. How at first she started as the
assistant to the wife, but then they just needed she just kind of migrated
to the husband, and then they ended up getting a divorce. But she
would find herself being like because she was cute and attractive, like she like
she'd have to go meet him across town to drop him off stuff, and
then or he doesn't drive anywhere, so she would have to drive him to
the restaurant and to the bar. And then it's like she's like, but
I don't want like I don't want to end up on reality tea, you
know, and and be like, oh, you know this is so and
So's dating his new hot you know, cause it was like so she was
like I hated that part of it. But but yet, you know,
it was there was a rewarding side because she got to know the kids and
then she was like really close with the family and stuff like that. But
then there's just like, you know, it's just it's it's a it's a
crazy job. Yeah, it's a crazy Has there been anything not like from
kind of doing the podcast and just like generally like putting work in the media
and being creative people and in like, what were some of the biggest like
revelations that you had once you like entered the fray of like, Oh,
people really don't understand that this is a reality of how things work like in
showbiz. Hmm, well, I don't know. I mean, I think
people in show business are bigger assholes than anybody really knows. And we've talked
about this a lot, where I just think that people behind the scenes,
when people get famous or get power, they tend it tends to go to
their head and they tend to feel like they can treat people anyway they want.
And then Ellen a lot of that. Yes, we talked about this
a lot. I knew somebody who worked on Ellen's show. I was very
very close to somebody and many years before anybody knew that Ellen was impossible to
deal with. Oh my, I knew several people that worked on the show
and heard horrendous stories and it was always crazy to me and Lynette and would
talk about it on the show. I think we would do patriots about it,
where I was like, Okay, you're not gonna believe this. Thing
that I heard because she did. One of them was she it was during
the primary. It was when Obama was running against Hillary in the primary to
be there eight, No, it was it was was a two thousand and
eight mm yeah, oh yes, yes, two thousand and eight. And
they're supposed to get equal time. And Ellen basically had Hillary on, and
then when she had Obama on, she made him wait. She completely was
a diva about it. He was at a national convention. He was trying
to make it work. He was like, no problem, I will juggle
my schedule. Because she was like, no, you can only do it
at this time, and I will not wait. So he was like okay,
So he figured it out. He had all these like ten thousand people
waiting while he was supposed to be appearing like over you know, zoom however
remotely on the show. And then she on purpose just made them wait.
She was just like she started going like does the audience have any questions?
And my friend was like appalled. She was like it was the weirdest,
awful, awkward thing, and she was doing it on purpose and using her
power anyway. And she for real had a thing where like you can't make
eye contact with her a lot of the things that came out later Obamba,
by the way, imagine how she must treat that, you know, the
other just people that work since writer's pa. Yes, I mean like really
really really awful and just fired people constantly that just pissed her out, Like
was just like I want her out. Wouldn't fired friends, like people that
had worked for her for a long time, would would tell somebody else to
go fire them and then be like had they react? Like she was a
nightmare and when and I would hear this stuff and be like but nobody but
everybody had signed like no one was allowed to say anything, So I was
hearing it all all on the d L. But when finally somebody was brave
enough to come out, it was like, yeah, of course we've all
known this for years. I think that would be the thing that Lynette my
are privy to people telling us behind the scenes, like how awful some people
are and no one's allowed to know. Oh my gosh. Yeah, there's
so many people like just doing comedy for so long of like this like just
underground whispers of like don't don't be alone in a room with this person,
don't you know? I wouldn't work with that guy, like so much of
it, and it is shocking when and it's it's weird because it's like it's
become common knowledge and then when it does come out, like you're expecting it,
it has to come out at some point, and then when it finally
does, you're like, oh my god, Like that's that's also shocking that
someone was like brave enough to finally say something. And we talk about the
Louis c Case stuff was we knew about that I was a comedian. We
knew that the worst kept secret and then first kept the other thing too.
Is like when we were coming Stephanie and I were coming up in the TV
world and all that, there was no social media, Twitter, Instagram,
note, nothing, no even iPhones really and you know, so it was
very easy for people to get away with this behavior. And now it's like
you get more and more people are getting more and more brave, you know,
with the me too and all that plus social media and just you know,
it's so it's hopefully, I don't know, getting a little better,
but I don't know. Yeah, I really hope. There's always going to
be assholes. There's always going to be as this is why you have to
sign NDA's though we talk about that all the time. People would behave better
they wouldn't need everybody to sign Anna exactly. Like started out as this idea
to protect like copy right, you know, like your intellectual property. Yes,
yes, thank you, and and then like you know, as all
good things are ruined by bad people, like it became this like tool to
protect bad behavior, which shouldn't that shouldn't be how that shouldn't be the norm.
Yeah, yeah, and you also and like to that point, like
it's like the goddamn grifter is like cause you know, you know, there
is one percent of the population that as assistants like maybe would do really egregious
violations of privacy and trust and that would suck. And like so it's like
you, on one hand, you do see how celebrities could get done really
dirty by like letting the wrong people in, and like the way they must
be super guarded and jaded. Like there's also like, you know those kind
of fringe people who like ruin it for I think the other maybe hard work
and folks who are like I'm not trying to do anything crazy, but please
don't abuse me, Like yeah, it's just like a complicated thing, and
like it's interesting, like when you were saying about Louis c K and like
it's so funny because I feel like so much have canceled. Culture is framed
as it's like you make one mistake, one strike, and you're gone.
But it's like when we hear these stories, it's like they made ten thousand
mistakes, they still weren't gone. Most of these people are blatant with their
behavior and then they finally somebody out them. Yeah, and it's like,
oh my gosh, poor Louis. He asked for permission to masturbate in front
of one girl. Like, no, that's not really how it was going
down. Yeah, it's like, oh god, like, think about fielding
that requass, folks, I literally think about fielding that requaess. That's insane.
I mean I always the people that are so anti cancel culture. I'm
like, it's called consequences. Yeah, I understand, we're not trying to
come after you for making one slip up or using the wrong pronoun. Nobody's
doing that to you. Nobody's nobody's canceling you because you use somebody's the wrong
pronoun. Now, if you are all you do is like ship on trans
people and constantly use the wrong pronoun. Yeah, there's gonna be consequences to
that. You didn't one time as gender transperson a slew of unprovoked to me,
your whole personality go against the trans community. It's not so I mean,
yes, it's not. I it just makes me so mad when people
are like, ah, you can't say anything. It's like you can say
anything. You can say a lot of things. Nobody's gonna cancel you off
of making one little mistake, right, and especially like it's like this idea
of like, oh well, if I've made the mistake, the consequences are
so huge that I can never admit that I've made the mistake. When it's
like I don't know, I just think like I was wrong, I fucked
up. My bad, Like you know, we we make a lot of
fun of notes apologies because there's like seems so disingenuous, But like I do
think there is a more authentic way to be like yeah, my bad,
Yeah, like I fucked up, And then it doesn't need to be this
like as some people would probably feel a witch hunch of this, like you
can just be like no, I did a little spell oops, I won't
do it again. Yeah. Yeah, And I also think that a lot
of the people that a lot of people defend, like, oh this poor
person, cancel culture, gottem. But Louis ck is not can't in any
way shape. Lucy is doing better than ever, which is fine. I'm
not saying he shouldn't have a career, no, like like it's up to
me, but he does have a perfectly healthy career. Most of these comedians.
Tell me one comedian that's like never worked again? Ye right, I
don't. I can't think of any Yeah, even Michael Richards is making a
comeback. Yeah. And the Michael Richards thing, by the way, wasn't
just like he didn't use the N word one time he went crazy and had
a complete racist like meltdown. And yeah, so I feel like a old
dumb dumb who's from Seinfeld years and years ago. It's just like at a
stand up show, right, yes, And they had audio of it.
Yeah. I think I was listening to like It's Too Far, It's a
podcast that I really like, and they were talking about this and it's like
two queer Jewish women who like kind of run and like, but one of
them is like jokes about having almost like her name is Robie Hoffin. She's
so fucking funny. She has almost like a trump like she's so confident,
and I do think she had she had some interesting takes where she was like,
you know, okay, so you have this awful moment and obviously it's
in excuse well never should have happened in the first place, so fucking harmful
to people, Like what does life look like after? And like is there
what what do we want from people who like make these colossal fuck ups?
Because like I think what she was saying, and I don't know a ton
about it, but she was saying, like he's been really quiet and remorseful
for a really long time, and it just like I think there's this interesting
question where it's like where we don't have the answers for like how to hold
people accountable and so it like it and then there's just people on like I
think both extremes being like this, it needs to be this way, and
then everyone's like that's not fair, like yeah, and yeah, yeah,
I do think people make mistakes. I mean I I I my kids call
me out on certain things. Like I always thought it was perfectly acceptable to
call somebody a butch lesbian. That's like in my conversations with butch lesbians,
I was like, that's what they call themselves, like, and my son
was like really annoyed at me. One time, he was like, we
don't use that word anymore, and I was like, oh, we don't.
Like I got canceled by my kids many times, many times, ye
like where I've been like okay, but I didn't know. I wasn't like
it's intent, like it's intent ye right, yeah, yeah, they still
love you anyways. Yeah. Yeah, I don't mean to be like a
Michael Richards apologist. Oh I don't know it. I understand what you're saying.
Yeah, of course, Like yes, people get caught on camera doing
stuff and maybe they're having a bad moment. But like I guess we have
to figure out the difference between is Michael Richards out there on a daily basis
like calling people the N word? Like I don't, I don't know.
Ye. If we see something bad happening, a bad a bad action that
hurts people, you have to call it bad. You just have to point
at it and say that's not right, that's racist, or that's hurts people,
or that's misogynistic, like just label it and then change it, Like
if we if we appease it, then it's just going to keep happening,
right, we need to stop the pattern of hey, like that's that's the
point. Yeah, And to what extent are we like listening to the people
affected, like on the receiving end of like hateful, horrible racist behavior,
Like to what extent are like those the people who are getting to rightfully determine
the recourse and action, because I think there is also like I think there's
a lot of like white people who feel really guilty and are like ooh,
I'm a colonizer, Like I don't I have all of this like discomfort,
like especially like well educated, liberal arts educated white people who are like okay,
so fuck, Like yikes, bad stuff has happened. And I think
sometimes it's like discomfort and guilt with that manifest and like being like, well,
I want to really condemn people doing the wrong thing because that's the way
I'm going to like sit with this discomfort. And of course it's so important
for what people like speak up and like there's so many situations where it's not
safe for people of color too, or like where they're just not in the
room to speak up. So I'm not at all saying like, of course
white people need to speak up, but like I just think it's a really
interesting dynamic of like but to what extent are you amplifying a voice versus like
kind of having this like reactionary like I think this is what I should do
to like alleviate my own feelings of guilt about this. Yeah, byplog,
people have been like almost trained to tiptoe around that feeling of like, well,
we don't we don't want to serve to that discomfort. And it's like
wait, no, that sucks. Like we're realizing that now it's like as
as like a person, as an Asian American woman, like I should just
live like without constantly thinking about like, well, am I making this other
person uncomfortable? Am I making their whiteness uncomfortable? Like? And we need
to learn that like having you know, speaking with black women who are constantly
tipped like yeah, oh my gosh, I can't have any reaction to this
otherwise I'm gonna be labeled like angry yep. I mean yeah, well,
and it doesn't help that now we're trying to take away critical race theory in
schools, Like we're trying to make sure that nobody feels uncomfortable about anything,
and like, at the same time, we can't turn everything into a gotcha
moment. Oh we found out you're racist, Like no otherwise than people can't
learn and make mistakes. Yeah, we didn't solve it, you guys.
I know, I know, I know. We're just kind of diving deeper
and deeper and being like, oh my god, this is the endless Well
I'm I'm like and I'm like, now you like the Florida education system,
We're gonna have to have you guys back, and ye I want I feel
like I was so fucking blabby this whole time, but like I really hear
more about I just like it's so cool to like hear about like I don't
know just not like generation feels like horrible when you say that, but just
like people are like ten years to like whatever about like ahead, like I
just am so fascinated with like what the pap was Like, Yeah, we
get excited one too smart, you know, amazing women or in front of
us. We just want to like what will be your mentors? Yeah?
Absolutely all right, So tell us about tell us the podcast. We signed
an NDA. When what day does it come out? Give us the details
social media? Where do we find you? We signed an NDA on Instagram.
The podcast stops every Wednesday. Is like the first section is us usually
talking about pop culture. We did a lot of banner puff recapping kind of
reality TV space, But then we always have a guest for an interview.
So whether you're in it for like more reality TV goss or whether you're like
I want to hear like we had someone who works for Ellen as a writer
on like all these awesome folks. So yeah, we have really cool sportsaff
assistants. We just like have these charming anecdotes about which celebrities fucking rock and
the ways that people behave badly in Hollywood. Yeah? Great, And where
do we find you on social media? And each one you want to plug?
Oh yes, I'm on Instagram as Nikki and Maddox, which is like
my given Japanese first name birth name and MADX was taken, so I just
use that it's m I K I A N N M A D d o
X. And then we're on Patreon. Check us out, give us good
nice red Yeah, go to iTunes. Give you guys good reviews. Yeah,
if you want like a story post. Sorry, yes, what I
say iTunes? Yeah, that's outdated, sadly, I still say it all
the time. Okay. And we signed an n DA is it's that is
your And if you want to see me post once every four months and usually
go on a little spree LIFTFORED. The Big Red Dog is like my personal
instagram. Oh cute, Okay, I love it. Well, thank you
guys much, thank you Kaylin, thank you Kaylan. I felt myself hand
talking. I was like, oh no, my ruin in Kaylen's life.
You're all good, all right? Please everybody, bye, letting go,