WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:05.960 The o' chile effect is sponsored by Wallstreet, Window dot Com and listeners like 2 00:00:06.040 --> 00:00:17.879 you Yeah Yeah Media yea twenty fourth day of January twenty twenty four, allegedly 3 00:00:17.920 --> 00:00:21.359 according to that thing we call a calendar, and here is the o'celly effect 4 00:00:21.480 --> 00:00:25.039 live. So uh you know, of course, if you're catching it by 5 00:00:25.039 --> 00:00:28.160 a podcast, it isn't live, but it was live at one point in 6 00:00:28.199 --> 00:00:34.679 time. Anyway, when you do broadcasts, you know, snapshot of what 7 00:00:34.840 --> 00:00:38.119 was occurring at the time. Maybe we're going to get into that. My 8 00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:42.960 guest tonight Larry Hancock, who is now appearing on Wednesdays and every other Wednesday 9 00:00:42.960 --> 00:00:48.600 you should be hearing from Larry put the foreseeable future and will it be JFK 10 00:00:48.799 --> 00:00:52.280 every time? No, but tonight it might have to come up along with 11 00:00:52.359 --> 00:00:58.759 some current events. Why because well, I got this interesting email Actually that 12 00:00:59.280 --> 00:01:03.359 started a conversation between Larry and myself by a text, and it was sort 13 00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:10.000 of like, what would Larry Hancock do if Larry Hancock was like in control 14 00:01:10.120 --> 00:01:15.280 of a massive media mechanism, if he could get out there and get the 15 00:01:15.319 --> 00:01:19.680 story out regarding the JFK case, what is it that he would do? 16 00:01:21.359 --> 00:01:26.480 Well? I think it's informative to take a look back at a couple of 17 00:01:26.519 --> 00:01:30.680 things, maybe some recent history, maybe some ancient history or semi ancient history 18 00:01:30.799 --> 00:01:37.120 sixty years ago, right, and say to ourselves, well, what actually 19 00:01:37.120 --> 00:01:41.799 did happen, and how did the narratives get fed to people, and how 20 00:01:41.879 --> 00:01:48.000 were they then controlled and et cetera, et cetera. Anyway, Larrydashancock dot 21 00:01:48.040 --> 00:01:49.159 com, you go there, you can find out. Of course, he 22 00:01:49.239 --> 00:01:52.840 takes up a whole lot of room on my bookshelf. I bring this up 23 00:01:52.840 --> 00:01:57.719 every single time. Creating Chaos definitely a book I recommend. Apparently, you 24 00:01:57.760 --> 00:02:02.480 know, I still need to do my entire explanation as to how I'm viewing 25 00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:07.840 the Ukraine conflict, but we're gonna suspend that for tonight, although we might 26 00:02:07.879 --> 00:02:12.879 have to touch upon it just a bit. Why, Because there's a lot 27 00:02:12.919 --> 00:02:15.960 of things going on. I mean, there are narratives flying right now, 28 00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:23.479 There are active shooting situations occurring on the planet. Some people are even arguing 29 00:02:23.479 --> 00:02:28.479 that we've already escalated into a time when we are just you know, inches 30 00:02:29.159 --> 00:02:32.960 from World War three, not necessarily the nuclear World War three, but world 31 00:02:32.960 --> 00:02:38.919 War three because of the regional conflicts that begin to spread out, et cetera, 32 00:02:38.960 --> 00:02:44.039 et cetera. But what's the media telling you outside of what happened in 33 00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:49.840 New Hampshire in America? In America, Let's let's keep it on that too, 34 00:02:49.919 --> 00:02:53.039 because after all, international news might look a little different anyway, Larry 35 00:02:53.039 --> 00:02:57.599 Hancock is with me. Larry, how you doing tonight? I'm doing fine, 36 00:02:57.639 --> 00:03:00.439 Chuck. It's good to be back. Now. This is a little 37 00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:02.919 different for you and me because you know, a lot of times you and 38 00:03:02.960 --> 00:03:07.000 I decide we're going to speak about something that is currently occurring, or we're 39 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:12.879 going to speak about historical information. We still have a lot of stuff to 40 00:03:12.879 --> 00:03:16.199 cover UAP wise with you, and by the way, I've noticed a few 41 00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:23.560 things being fed into the media stream lately regarding UAPs. I think seems like 42 00:03:23.240 --> 00:03:29.479 there's a culmination of certain events going on regarding that part of the narrative. 43 00:03:30.080 --> 00:03:32.759 But it's not at the top of the news feed at the moment. What 44 00:03:32.879 --> 00:03:37.120 is at the top of the news feed outside of again, our you know, 45 00:03:37.520 --> 00:03:43.199 ridiculous political puppet show that goes on in America every few years, What 46 00:03:43.639 --> 00:03:47.039 is in the main headline feed out there, Well, it's the wars, 47 00:03:47.520 --> 00:03:52.159 it's the rumors, of wars. I'm starting to feel, you know, 48 00:03:53.560 --> 00:03:57.199 just a little nineteen eighty four is here, a little new, brave, 49 00:03:57.240 --> 00:04:02.080 new world. This year we are dealing with some news speak, I feel 50 00:04:02.080 --> 00:04:08.080 like. But anyway, forget about my paranoid conspiracy theory. Let's put things 51 00:04:08.120 --> 00:04:13.960 in context with a historian like you, and yeah, I feel probably more 52 00:04:14.039 --> 00:04:18.680 like nineteen thirty eight ish, oh, okay, which is maybe even scarier. 53 00:04:18.759 --> 00:04:23.240 But yeah, if you just kind of put it pinned down, like, 54 00:04:23.360 --> 00:04:26.879 where's there active fighting in nineteen thirty eight, Well, it's there, 55 00:04:26.959 --> 00:04:30.519 and it's you know, there's some in Africa, and there's some you know, 56 00:04:30.720 --> 00:04:33.759 and there's some in China, and there's and it's it doesn't look terrible, 57 00:04:33.839 --> 00:04:36.879 and then all of a sudden it is, well, all you need 58 00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:43.439 right now is what some central European powers to start shooting at each other or 59 00:04:43.480 --> 00:04:46.839 something in Boom, We're there, right, I mean, what are we 60 00:04:46.879 --> 00:04:50.399 missing? Italy, Germany? I mean I found it even strange that South 61 00:04:50.439 --> 00:04:56.839 Africa, of all nations, got involved in the uh you know, in 62 00:04:56.879 --> 00:05:01.519 the international courts here regarding Israel, right, and that narrative has shifted in 63 00:05:01.560 --> 00:05:06.600 a very weird way. In fact, it seemed to be all absolutely controlled. 64 00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:13.279 Although you notice they didn't broadcast South Africa's case against Israel, but they 65 00:05:13.279 --> 00:05:19.399 did broadcast Israel's case answering South Africa's case. Right. But anyway, again, 66 00:05:19.439 --> 00:05:23.680 I don't want to drag you into the politics of it all. Let's 67 00:05:23.720 --> 00:05:27.920 talk about the narrative and what's being represented, and not necessarily start in Israel. 68 00:05:28.560 --> 00:05:30.800 Let's start somewhere else, because you know, in case you haven't noticed, 69 00:05:30.839 --> 00:05:34.079 and I don't mean you, Larry, but in case you haven't noticed, 70 00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:43.040 two years now, there's an active conflict in Ukraine and the Russian Federation 71 00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:47.319 is well involved. And now we've had to hear about well maybe North Korea 72 00:05:47.519 --> 00:05:54.279 because they upped them with some ammunition and they're involved, and what is their 73 00:05:54.360 --> 00:05:57.040 situation? And oh, by the way, here comes another test firing of 74 00:05:57.079 --> 00:06:00.920 a rocket. And I gotta tell you, Larry, it's very difficult to 75 00:06:00.959 --> 00:06:04.959 sort out. But what is it that you're observing when it comes to this 76 00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:09.879 stuff, and from the Russian side of it, from the you know, 77 00:06:09.959 --> 00:06:14.360 the the American cheerleading side of things. What are we looking at right now? 78 00:06:14.439 --> 00:06:15.639 I mean, and and of course we're going to have to get into 79 00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:19.879 a historical case before we're all done. But yeah, go ahead, And 80 00:06:20.079 --> 00:06:25.480 in one sense, we do have a world war going on, a conventional 81 00:06:25.519 --> 00:06:29.759 war. It's not declared, I think would be the big difference. It's 82 00:06:29.839 --> 00:06:34.439 not declared. The sides are all informal their alliances, their affiliations. But 83 00:06:34.920 --> 00:06:40.360 for example, one of the big news stories today out of out of Russia, 84 00:06:40.879 --> 00:06:48.040 and it's it's worth examining from several angles, including damage control, is 85 00:06:48.079 --> 00:06:55.759 the fact that a heavy transport, a heavy airlifter one of Russia, only 86 00:06:56.240 --> 00:07:00.720 starting the conflict in Ukraine, had perhaps one hundred of these aircraft. They 87 00:07:00.759 --> 00:07:05.399 now maybe have seventy left. They're kind of like our galaxies are heavy lifters, 88 00:07:05.399 --> 00:07:15.720 they're keyed to them supporting any long range conventional warfare. Crashed in Belgrond 89 00:07:16.120 --> 00:07:24.120 inside Russia, and they immediately seize the narrative, which is something you and 90 00:07:24.199 --> 00:07:29.199 I have talked about, Chuck, because there's always this incessant, like knee 91 00:07:29.240 --> 00:07:34.240 jerk reaction for everybody to seize the narrative in case of a citensational event. 92 00:07:34.519 --> 00:07:39.959 It could be Dallas in nineteen sixty three, but in this case, the 93 00:07:40.040 --> 00:07:46.319 Russians immediately seized the narrative. I wanted to control the story by linking this 94 00:07:46.480 --> 00:07:50.639 aircraft to being shot down by the Ukrainians, and the Ukrainians made a terrible 95 00:07:50.720 --> 00:07:59.959 mistake because the aircraft was actually carrying prisoners Ukrainians for prisoner exchange, which was 96 00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:03.759 scheduled today. During the course of the day, it's kind of as in 97 00:08:03.879 --> 00:08:07.839 Dallas, you can come up with a narrative and it worked. They seize 98 00:08:07.839 --> 00:08:11.120 the headlines. If you look at the first set of headlines this afternoon, 99 00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:18.480 that is all doing nothing. The media worldwide did nothing but repeat that story. 100 00:08:20.079 --> 00:08:22.519 Just sort of reminds you of Dallas. You know, the media, 101 00:08:22.040 --> 00:08:26.720 we're just reporting the news. That's what the Russians said, you know, 102 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:31.240 when we're just reporting it. But during the course of the day, one 103 00:08:31.279 --> 00:08:37.159 of the things that has emerged is that aircraft actually originated its flight in Iran, 104 00:08:37.480 --> 00:08:45.559 and unfortunately for the Russians, there are transponders and there's global flight tracking, 105 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:50.600 and people quickly posted maps showing the flight path of that aircraft originating in 106 00:08:50.600 --> 00:08:56.919 Iran and flying into Russia into the area of Belacride. Okay, so it's 107 00:08:56.000 --> 00:09:03.039 like, you probably not transporting Ukrainian prisoners of war from Iran. Well, 108 00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:05.240 right, I was just going to ask you, is that has there ever 109 00:09:05.320 --> 00:09:11.919 been a report that the Russians were stowing their prisoners of war in Iran? 110 00:09:11.480 --> 00:09:16.879 Because I don't think so, you know not, now there's not, and 111 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:20.440 there is history there. There have been lots of prisoner of war exchanges, 112 00:09:20.679 --> 00:09:24.120 and in Ukraine, everybody knows how it happens. They know where they're kept 113 00:09:24.279 --> 00:09:30.080 there. They're either bussed or trucked into dispersal points and that's where the exchange 114 00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:33.720 is. Because you want to do it one to one, that's when they 115 00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:37.840 know where it happens. Uh. If if that's going to happen anytime. 116 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:41.360 Up to this point in time, there's been a notice by the Russians saying, 117 00:09:41.759 --> 00:09:45.879 you know this is going to happen, this is a secure area. 118 00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:48.600 Don't do anything in this area or you might hurt your own people. That 119 00:09:48.639 --> 00:09:54.519 didn't happen today. Okay, So yeah, there are precedents that you can 120 00:09:54.600 --> 00:09:58.919 refer to for context. But in this instance, the other thing that's begun 121 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:07.320 the backfar on the Russians is that video emerged of the aircraft actually crassing and 122 00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:13.600 you know, flying at a low altitude crashing, uh and and it could 123 00:10:13.679 --> 00:10:18.679 be geolocated and people have gotten very good at that because nobody trusts anybody, 124 00:10:18.799 --> 00:10:22.279 you know, about these kind of news reports. And it became clear from 125 00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:30.120 the location was that the aircraft was flying back into Russia, not from Russia 126 00:10:30.240 --> 00:10:35.600 to bellak Rode, with prisoners on it. And it's like the most the 127 00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:39.120 most At the moment, nobody knows for sure. I certainly don't know for 128 00:10:39.159 --> 00:10:45.960 sure, but the Russian story began to fall apart within hours, you know. 129 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:48.679 And of course things are advanced today, just as we would say, 130 00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:52.600 guys, the story about Dallas began to fall apart, you know, after 131 00:10:52.639 --> 00:11:01.080 a bit. But things are much faster these days. Well so that headlines 132 00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:05.600 nobody will ever those headlines were all the majority of the public will ever read. 133 00:11:05.639 --> 00:11:09.279 They'll never read the second story, well, believe it or not. 134 00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:16.000 Even the intelligence assets in the world in nineteen sixty three would have turned to 135 00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:20.440 broadcast media. I mean, I'm not saying that they don't today, but 136 00:11:20.799 --> 00:11:24.879 they would have relied on it kind of heavily to see what was being said. 137 00:11:26.480 --> 00:11:30.279 There are things that are available to people that are open source at this 138 00:11:30.399 --> 00:11:35.320 point where you could find out, you know, there are enough cameras on 139 00:11:35.399 --> 00:11:41.600 the planet. There are enough tracking of all sorts of vehicles on the planet 140 00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:46.840 where you could figure out a lot of things all by yourself independently. Now 141 00:11:46.279 --> 00:11:52.000 that wasn't available in the sixties, you know it was. You can lose 142 00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:56.200 the narrative much faster now. I think that's something that we can discuss because 143 00:11:56.759 --> 00:12:01.879 you know, we know that in regard to the Kennedy assassination, they began 144 00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:07.639 to lose the narrative, I would say within a year, within eight months, 145 00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:09.879 six eight months. You know, you could say that they began to 146 00:12:09.919 --> 00:12:16.159 lose the narrative when OSWA was shot on TV within you know, forty eight 147 00:12:16.200 --> 00:12:20.960 hours. But it took a lot longer for the narratives to collapse now because 148 00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:28.360 quite frankly, the message the media were under there wasn't the counter media there 149 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:35.000 was forgetting Maybe there really wasn't a counter media the way that we have today 150 00:12:35.200 --> 00:12:39.639 today. I can relate to things to you this way that I'm tracking on 151 00:12:39.759 --> 00:12:46.120 military blogs from guys that really know what they're talking about. As of right 152 00:12:46.159 --> 00:12:52.000 now, after ten hours, the mainstream media has not picked up on anything 153 00:12:52.039 --> 00:12:56.120 of what we just I just went over that. You know, you would 154 00:12:56.120 --> 00:13:01.960 still read the same headline, but the counter narrative develops much more quickly now. 155 00:13:03.159 --> 00:13:07.679 That didn't happen in nineteen sixty three. It'd be fascinating if it had, 156 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:09.440 but it didn't. Right now, this is not even a judgment. 157 00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:13.440 I mean, quite frankly, for the Russians, when they are in the 158 00:13:13.480 --> 00:13:16.639 midst of a conflict, it makes no sense for them to actually be entirely 159 00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:22.000 truthful about what's going on. Anyway, the idea that they're being shot at 160 00:13:22.039 --> 00:13:26.320 by the Ukrainians, this has come up a few times, and sometimes it's 161 00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:30.799 been accurate and sometimes it hasn't been. But either way, they have seized 162 00:13:30.879 --> 00:13:35.200 upon it and put out the first headlines saying that they were being attacked one 163 00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:39.360 way or another, right in different ways. And sometimes you know, in 164 00:13:39.399 --> 00:13:43.840 this case, they wanted to turn around and say, look, you attacked 165 00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:48.919 a transport that was carrying your own people, sort of again steering things a 166 00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:52.759 certain way. Now, you wouldn't even expect them to be directly honest about 167 00:13:52.759 --> 00:13:56.840 this. What do we think really happen here? Probably you just have a 168 00:13:56.879 --> 00:14:01.320 mishap that just occurs, right, I mean, that's why it seems. 169 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:03.960 I think the best guess is I don't think anyone will ever know, for 170 00:14:05.480 --> 00:14:09.200 someone will know for sure. One of the things that did emerge was at 171 00:14:09.200 --> 00:14:13.440 that point in time, the Bellgrond area was under an air defense alert, 172 00:14:13.279 --> 00:14:18.759 okay, and the Russians have displayed an unfortunate, well it's unfortunate, a 173 00:14:18.799 --> 00:14:24.120 pattern of shooting down there on aircraft during air defense alerts. I think the 174 00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:33.840 videos quite clearly show the plane was at low altitude, right and relatively low 175 00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:37.799 altitude, and was shot down. I think that will emerge whether it could 176 00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:46.240 have been a Russian stake as has occurred actually fairly frequently, or a Russian 177 00:14:46.279 --> 00:14:50.559 strike I mean a Ukrainian strike. I mean, after all, this is 178 00:14:50.039 --> 00:14:56.320 these are military transports flying in a war zone, and this particular military transport 179 00:14:56.720 --> 00:15:03.519 could have been tracked. I mean everybody could attracted it flying into Russia from 180 00:15:03.600 --> 00:15:09.519 Iran and carrying weapons. I mean, why would the Ukrainians not shoot it 181 00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:13.799 down if they could? You know, that would just make absolute sense. 182 00:15:13.879 --> 00:15:20.679 But so one thing that's kind of clouded the whole issue is the Russians also 183 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:28.360 released a list of Ukrainian present prisoners of war that were supposedly on the aircraft, 184 00:15:28.039 --> 00:15:33.320 and quit data searches revealed about third of them were already released or in 185 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:39.320 earlier releases than already in Ukraine, you know. So it just it just 186 00:15:39.399 --> 00:15:43.720 shows you today how badly, how quickly you can lose the narrative, if 187 00:15:43.720 --> 00:15:48.600 you want to consider that losing it, because I said that they really the 188 00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:54.600 first out of the gate gets the mainstream media headlines and you could just you 189 00:15:54.639 --> 00:15:58.200 know, that's that's we got it. Now eighty percent of those people will 190 00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:02.639 never hear anything more. That story will never be revisited. You and I 191 00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:06.000 both discuss how quick news cycles are, right, you know, do you 192 00:16:06.039 --> 00:16:11.279 think I'm going to see headlines on that again tomorrow? But maybe not at 193 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:17.279 all. So in other words, look, the initial statement comes out, 194 00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:21.320 it doesn't matter that it's been fact checked or corrected if nobody picks it up 195 00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:23.919 and runs with it, because you'll have to go and find it if you 196 00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:29.679 want to. And if you're somebody who is a passive receiver of the news, 197 00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:32.559 you might never get another headline about it. That's all it was. 198 00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:36.559 And it doesn't matter that, like you said, one third of those guys 199 00:16:36.879 --> 00:16:41.480 were already released, you know whatever, it doesn't matter because nobody bothers to 200 00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:45.159 follow up. You know, it's sort of like they in the old days, 201 00:16:45.399 --> 00:16:48.720 right, you'd wait a week, two weeks, a month for retraction. 202 00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:51.519 And what did they used to do? Even though it was on the 203 00:16:51.519 --> 00:16:53.600 front page of the paper, The retraction would be back, you know in 204 00:16:55.080 --> 00:16:59.840 section seven a, you know of the Sunday paper that nobody bothered to read, 205 00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:03.599 right because it was a continuation of another section or some other nonsense. 206 00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:08.640 And let's take another one. Check going to interim state bag history. Let's 207 00:17:08.680 --> 00:17:14.519 go back to the Tonking golf thing, which literally was the precursor to kicking 208 00:17:14.599 --> 00:17:22.200 off full scale warfare in Vietnam. That event happened. President Johnson seized it 209 00:17:22.400 --> 00:17:30.960 is statements were issued to the media, which within actually within three hours after 210 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:36.759 they'd been issued, Johnson was advised that they were incorrect. The military commanders 211 00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:40.240 on the scene advised them, and they were incorrect. There was no retraction. 212 00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:45.200 The headlines were there, had had been seized, and it never changed 213 00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:51.640 and the full story was not known for decades. So it's sort of like 214 00:17:52.599 --> 00:17:56.599 whether you call it damnage, it's like seizing the situation. Whenever someone seizes 215 00:17:56.680 --> 00:18:03.119 the situation and sees this is the media, it's real hard to catch up 216 00:18:03.160 --> 00:18:06.960 to it. And I think one of the reasons I bring that up is 217 00:18:07.640 --> 00:18:11.039 this happens every time. This is not anomalist. Dallas was not unique. 218 00:18:11.319 --> 00:18:17.119 That this is what happens every time. It's just how quick that cycle. 219 00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:22.720 It's just how quick the cycle is, and when it deconstructs, basically, 220 00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:26.279 and if anybody ever hears that, it deconstructs. In the case of the 221 00:18:26.680 --> 00:18:33.160 Gulf of Talking, nobody but those people in the know at the Pentagon and 222 00:18:33.240 --> 00:18:37.759 in the field knew that what was being given to the American public was quite 223 00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:45.200 literally false. I mean, we have a radio transcript of a theater commander 224 00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:51.319 flying over the area radioing back that there are no North Vietnamese ships around those 225 00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:56.799 destroyers. I'm here, I'm looking down, They're not there. That waited 226 00:18:56.079 --> 00:19:02.720 thirty years, yea. And then they returned that night and I think had 227 00:19:02.759 --> 00:19:04.440 to give a report. And then there was like maybe there was a bullet 228 00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:10.960 hole, maybe, and they weren't sure about that, and that was it. 229 00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:14.160 We're sure it's from them or one of our Yeah, we're not sure 230 00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:15.359 where it came from, but we do have a bullet hole, like over 231 00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:18.359 here, and we have a bullet right, that's it. And that was 232 00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:22.599 all there were so okay, and when it came to Dallas. I'll tell 233 00:19:22.599 --> 00:19:26.519 you this, this is a funny thing I thought of as you were speaking. 234 00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:30.519 Is that all the way into the nineteen eighties when I really started to 235 00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:37.119 get serious about the case, right late eighties. You know that statement that 236 00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:41.960 came out of the news about Oswald's arrest, I got me a cup, 237 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:45.440 but a president I'm gonna get me one more or whatever. It was, 238 00:19:45.559 --> 00:19:51.440 right, that weird statement that was like said on local Dallas media that was 239 00:19:51.480 --> 00:19:57.559 repeated in a couple of other markets. That statement that I think NBC rebroadcast 240 00:19:57.559 --> 00:20:04.039 when they figured out how to hookup with their local affiliate. That thing carried 241 00:20:04.039 --> 00:20:10.359 on until the eighties, that that's what Oswald said in the movie Theater right, 242 00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:15.599 because they got it out there, and then we heard about McDonald afterwards, 243 00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:18.279 and he was kind of famous for a minute, and he did TV 244 00:20:18.359 --> 00:20:22.359 shows and this and that twentieth anniversary nineteen eighty three, et cetera. Nineteen 245 00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:27.400 eighty eight, I think they still he was still around, and here we 246 00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:34.960 go. That narrative stuck around for twenty five years, and it was just 247 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:38.519 because it was the first thing out there, not that anybody verified it, 248 00:20:38.599 --> 00:20:41.839 and even though there were other people on the scene who said nah, he 249 00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:47.079 said something like this is it or whatever, and all these other things like 250 00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:51.319 this really weird, like almost you know, like I don't know, nineteen 251 00:20:51.400 --> 00:20:53.440 forties gangster nahsh he, I'm the guy who's gonna come in there and I'm 252 00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:57.880 gonna be the big fellow on the street, you know, gangsters statement like 253 00:20:57.960 --> 00:21:02.599 it was almost that silly. Remember the whole thing I got up, I 254 00:21:02.599 --> 00:21:08.440 got a president, like and it just stuck around because of the way things 255 00:21:08.519 --> 00:21:12.039 work back then. But like you said, the counter narrative can show up 256 00:21:12.119 --> 00:21:17.319 now. But if it's never picked up, isn't the result about the same? 257 00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:22.920 What do you think? And people people in position know this, I 258 00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:27.759 mean, administrations know this, whether they're Russian or Chinese or America that this 259 00:21:27.799 --> 00:21:33.599 is kind of like politics. Everybody understands how the game is played. We 260 00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:37.599 have to seize the narrative now. And you and I have talked about another 261 00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:44.240 instance, and that was following the the MLK assassination, where both the FBI 262 00:21:44.359 --> 00:21:49.799 director and the head of Justice issued a statement that's saying within hours saying it 263 00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:53.759 was only a single person, it was not racist and there's no conspiracy. 264 00:21:55.279 --> 00:21:59.720 And they both admitted later they didn't know that. They were just trying to 265 00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:03.680 prove event riots and minimize riots, and that's it's just it's instinct. And 266 00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:11.759 so none of this now by itself, none of it indicates conspiracy. It's 267 00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:18.279 just behavior. And one of the things that we've always got to worry about 268 00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:22.759 is, you know, picking out a nominalist behavior from what we would expect. 269 00:22:22.839 --> 00:22:26.200 You know, it's kind of like if this didn't occur, if somebody 270 00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:30.440 didn't move to seize the narrative, he would be like if everybody sat back 271 00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:33.279 and went, oh, we don't really know what happened, then it would 272 00:22:33.319 --> 00:22:38.400 be like, wow, this is interesting. I'm not sure that ever does. 273 00:22:40.039 --> 00:22:41.680 I don't think that that ever really occurs. I mean, I'm thinking 274 00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:45.319 back to one more recent incident, by the way, and then I want 275 00:22:45.319 --> 00:22:49.119 to move back to Dallas. But the thing is the Solmany thing, where 276 00:22:48.920 --> 00:22:56.039 there was that terrorist attack at the Memorial. Right immediately, I think it 277 00:22:56.039 --> 00:23:00.359 was blinking came out from the State Department and said, you know, first 278 00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:04.799 of all, America had nothing to do with this attack, and we have 279 00:23:04.839 --> 00:23:10.519 no reason to believe Israel did either. Now, I found that rather odd, 280 00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:14.279 okay, that he needed to come out and do that. Now. 281 00:23:14.359 --> 00:23:18.599 Of course, it's because we are in the midst of the post you know, 282 00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:23.519 October seventh situation now, But it was very weird that he did that, 283 00:23:23.640 --> 00:23:27.440 and I found it very strange at the time. But as I look 284 00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:32.200 back at it now, that's the only narrative that got dropped. Now, 285 00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:37.240 Larry, to your mind, has anybody really discussed what really happened as far 286 00:23:37.319 --> 00:23:41.680 as our mainstream media and the SOLEMNY thing at the memorial? You do recall 287 00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:45.000 the incident I'm talking about, right, and now I don't recall it being 288 00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:49.920 revisited. No, so no follow up. Just like the other, even 289 00:23:49.960 --> 00:23:56.119 more dramatic kind of seizing the narrative is when the mos sees the narrative of 290 00:23:56.240 --> 00:24:00.440 the hospital strike, right, Okay, good one. I mean they seize 291 00:24:00.440 --> 00:24:04.559 the narrative. In that case, it was it took probably about three or 292 00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:11.240 four days of satellite SAT photography and other things to deconstruct it, but it 293 00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:17.960 was long gone and and literally everything that's happened since I mean that one incident 294 00:24:18.759 --> 00:24:25.759 totally stole the narrative from Israel to Hamas and and it's just like they got 295 00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:30.039 their first and the media repeated what they'd said with no fact checking. And 296 00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:34.960 that's why we're where we are right now. One of the main reasons Israel. 297 00:24:36.359 --> 00:24:41.440 Israel lost the narrative then and there across most of the globe right well, 298 00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:45.000 and it's fascinating too. I mean, what will we call this the 299 00:24:45.160 --> 00:24:51.160 slow and steady doesn't win the race narrative. I mean this, if I 300 00:24:51.200 --> 00:24:53.720 go back to my PR handbook, it says, whoever does the first release 301 00:24:53.839 --> 00:24:59.319 wins? Okay, okay, Well I guess so, because that is what 302 00:24:59.359 --> 00:25:03.599 it seems to be, and it prevails regardless of the Again, the speed 303 00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:07.839 of the media today, like you said, we have the ability to independently 304 00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:11.720 check things. I mean, even without resources, without being in the news 305 00:25:11.799 --> 00:25:18.359 organization, you can do searches and find out information that is open source at 306 00:25:18.359 --> 00:25:23.880 this point that would never have been remotely available twenty years ago, thirty years 307 00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:30.400 ago, forty keep going, it gets worse, right, Commercial satellite photography, 308 00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:33.559 yeah, I mean something relevant to a couple of things we just talked 309 00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:41.119 about. This Russian incident, video streamed over the internet real time from smart 310 00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:47.759 phones that you can't regulate aircraft transponder tracking satellite photos in case of the set, 311 00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:51.200 and you know, in case of the hospital struct none of that was 312 00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:56.319 And this is independent. I mean, the fascinating thing is there is no 313 00:25:56.680 --> 00:26:03.359 if there were an independent, truly end dependent news outlet that used those things 314 00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:08.279 rather than you know, looked at breast releases or the wire services or whatever. 315 00:26:08.759 --> 00:26:11.720 You know, we'd give you a different view. But those things are 316 00:26:11.799 --> 00:26:17.119 kind of like all by themselves. You know, someone has to accumulate them, 317 00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:19.519 and it takes time to do that. But you're right, check that 318 00:26:19.519 --> 00:26:23.480 that's all new. And in a way that's great because we get the real 319 00:26:23.519 --> 00:26:29.160 story much more quickly. But you still can't get out ahead of the narrative. 320 00:26:29.799 --> 00:26:33.799 You see. It almost seems like, okay, if you were because 321 00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:36.799 everybody, like I said, we started with the whole what would Larry do? 322 00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:40.799 I mean, Larry, would you not you know, if you had 323 00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:45.720 unlimited resources? Okay, just temporarily, I mean, wouldn't you like to 324 00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:52.519 see an independent news organization that did that, that use the open source stuff 325 00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:56.240 to answer the narratives to actually you know, do stuff like hey, look, 326 00:26:56.240 --> 00:27:00.920 according to satellite potus, according to what we could pick up commercial according 327 00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:04.680 to what we were able to find out through satellite tracking. Wouldn't that be 328 00:27:04.759 --> 00:27:08.599 amazing? You know? Yeah. The other thing I do is ide issue. 329 00:27:08.599 --> 00:27:15.359 I'd have a code of conduct band that says something like equal treatment is 330 00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:21.160 not equal. For example, much of today you were seeing major outlets saying, 331 00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:26.200 well, Russia said this and Ukraine said that, and we don't know. 332 00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:30.400 It's like, okay, guys, so you just repeated both their press 333 00:27:30.440 --> 00:27:36.880 releases and said you don't know, that's that's not really good reporting that? 334 00:27:37.119 --> 00:27:40.880 Who needs that? And I could put that on, you know, a 335 00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:44.519 marquee in Times Square and just run them one over the other. Is that 336 00:27:44.640 --> 00:27:51.680 like, okay, it's a press release outlet thing that that sort of thing 337 00:27:51.799 --> 00:27:55.400 today, I mean you can almost say, well, back when when they 338 00:27:55.400 --> 00:28:00.720 didn't have anything better, but they had a lot of reporters, you know, 339 00:28:00.559 --> 00:28:04.799 okay, maybe that was acceptable. Now one of the things that's happened, 340 00:28:04.839 --> 00:28:10.799 I'm afraid and talking about current events, I'm sure you've read about LA 341 00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:18.440 Times cutting immensely out of their editorial and reporting staff. Yes, today mainstream 342 00:28:18.519 --> 00:28:25.480 news is almost in that they have become outlets. They've become outlets. Not 343 00:28:25.640 --> 00:28:30.279 to report, I report usually means interaction. Right, It's like I send 344 00:28:30.279 --> 00:28:33.039 somebody out and they ask them questions and try to give me a balance story. 345 00:28:33.319 --> 00:28:37.559 They don't just get two statements and we run them both and that's all 346 00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:40.559 there is to it. We'll see, And that's the other thing, that's 347 00:28:40.599 --> 00:28:42.960 what it's becoming. Yeah, that's the other unbalanced thing when it comes to 348 00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:48.960 these different circumstances where there are people that are killed in interactions with police. 349 00:28:49.279 --> 00:28:52.720 And this is one of my main complaints, and this is with all sorts 350 00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:56.880 of local outlets, my local TV. I've gone to them directly about this 351 00:28:57.079 --> 00:29:03.279 about how you know, guys, you're just reading the police press release. 352 00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:08.119 That's it. You're not going looking at anything, You're not talking to anybody 353 00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:14.240 unless the controversy persists for a minute, then a couple of days later you 354 00:29:14.279 --> 00:29:15.599 go out there and hey, did you do anybody happen to see anything? 355 00:29:17.119 --> 00:29:21.000 Days later, But generally speaking, when they report on this stuff, they're 356 00:29:21.079 --> 00:29:26.640 reading the public affairs officers release like hot right off of their emails. That's 357 00:29:26.680 --> 00:29:33.079 it. Yeah exactly, and yeah, right, well but look and in 358 00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:36.359 fairness and again, I'm one of these people, and I know you might 359 00:29:36.400 --> 00:29:38.240 be on the other side of this issue with me, Larry. But here's 360 00:29:38.279 --> 00:29:41.839 the thing. I don't trust the police. I never do. But you 361 00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:47.839 know what, unlike people that you know are all in or all out with 362 00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:51.480 the cops, here's what I would do in that position, which is not 363 00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:56.759 just read their press release. You know, if you're honestly going to report 364 00:29:56.839 --> 00:30:00.880 on this, go investigate. You know, see there's side you know, 365 00:30:02.480 --> 00:30:06.640 Chak having worked in public relations. No, I'm totally in on that. 366 00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:11.240 I think it's it's if you have to report it, you need to put 367 00:30:11.400 --> 00:30:15.880 some context to it. I mean, yeah, you can repeat their statement 368 00:30:15.279 --> 00:30:19.319 like okay, but this is it's not as if this is really what happened. 369 00:30:19.400 --> 00:30:23.519 It's sort of like the police position is, and and then with some 370 00:30:23.559 --> 00:30:27.640 context, we know that the police can't say this and that, and you 371 00:30:27.640 --> 00:30:33.920 know, we know that police practices are never to release all the details of 372 00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:38.880 a crime because they've got internal affairs has to take a look at things. 373 00:30:40.559 --> 00:30:42.880 And if they're still investigating it, they're not going to tell you stuff they 374 00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:48.279 want to keep secret. You know, there should be like it should be 375 00:30:48.400 --> 00:30:53.559 an intelligent adult to adult conversation. You know, just I'm telling you this, 376 00:30:53.759 --> 00:30:59.480 but you need to understand as always, like attached at the bottom of 377 00:30:59.480 --> 00:31:03.240 it, as in any ongoing investigation, there will not be a complete you 378 00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:10.079 know, transparency here regarding this. That would be an honest statement right across 379 00:31:10.119 --> 00:31:14.880 the board. They're not going to release every detail. It's an ongoing investigation. 380 00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:19.200 And yes, that makes sense, you can say that along with this 381 00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:22.319 is what the police have to say. This is what local residents have to 382 00:31:22.359 --> 00:31:26.920 say. This is what we could obtain on our own right if they were 383 00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:32.640 able to obtain video from a you know, a commercial source, you know, 384 00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:36.480 somebody's ring camera. Doesn't matter. You know, here's what we got 385 00:31:36.559 --> 00:31:41.599 from three different directions. Okay, But usually what happens on the you know, 386 00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:47.519 and it doesn't matter small towns cities. It's always the police press release 387 00:31:48.599 --> 00:31:51.640 and they speak it as if it's a matter of fact. They say, 388 00:31:51.799 --> 00:31:53.559 you know, and you can you notice because all the jargon is in there, 389 00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:56.519 right, the suspect did this, and then this happened, and then 390 00:31:56.559 --> 00:32:02.039 this occurred. They don't stay this is according to the police report. This 391 00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:07.599 is you know, yeah, that's it, you got it right there. 392 00:32:07.640 --> 00:32:10.440 The statement should be it should be this is the news for denied. No, 393 00:32:10.759 --> 00:32:15.480 don't say that like these are the press releases for the evening news news 394 00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:20.720 to follow, right, I mean, and again, if you're to say, 395 00:32:20.759 --> 00:32:23.519 okay, here's the press release, here's what you know, the the 396 00:32:23.680 --> 00:32:28.720 victim had to say, here's what the victim's family had to say, and 397 00:32:28.880 --> 00:32:31.759 here's what we could obtain independently. If there's a way to do that, 398 00:32:31.839 --> 00:32:37.279 it seems to me you need a triangulation here, okay, of things in 399 00:32:37.400 --> 00:32:42.440 order to make a presentation where you say, look, we may not necessarily 400 00:32:42.519 --> 00:32:45.720 know all of what occurred here, but this is what we could gather, 401 00:32:45.319 --> 00:32:50.160 and this would be three fair you know elements. Now, how would you 402 00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:54.440 apply that to this circumstance with Ukraine and Russia? Right, you'd say, 403 00:32:54.480 --> 00:32:58.720 okay, here's what the Russians had to say, this is according to what 404 00:32:58.759 --> 00:33:02.119 the Ukrainians have to say. We must honestly understand that they are two nations 405 00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:07.759 and conflicts, so therefore their statements might be a bit askew, and independently, 406 00:33:08.200 --> 00:33:14.799 here's what we could determine. But I think we do have a good 407 00:33:14.839 --> 00:33:17.839 example of that in some instances. For example, I was looking at Seeing 408 00:33:19.160 --> 00:33:22.359 earlier, and you know, they carry headlines and they carry stories, but 409 00:33:22.480 --> 00:33:30.039 also sometimes they put up live scrolling information, right, so that they actually 410 00:33:30.039 --> 00:33:32.240 have a feed that's chronological and you can kind of go down through it and 411 00:33:32.319 --> 00:33:36.400 say, oh, here is the first thing said, here's the second thing 412 00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:39.759 said, there's a then there's a what we're hearing now, and and you 413 00:33:39.880 --> 00:33:44.119 have a way to kind of look at the history of the story, right, 414 00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:49.400 and that that makes some sense. I think that's a It does give 415 00:33:49.400 --> 00:33:52.960 you some balance, it gives you and it gives you a feel it's it's 416 00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:55.680 evolving, people are learning more about it. It wasn't just a hit and 417 00:33:55.799 --> 00:34:00.960 run type thing. The headline, yeah, and those scrolls. What you 418 00:34:00.039 --> 00:34:04.640 usually get is, look, this statement was made here at this time. 419 00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:07.679 Then in a press conference at this time, this was said. Like you 420 00:34:07.800 --> 00:34:14.159 have a chronology where you see the statements emerging at different times. Then this 421 00:34:14.199 --> 00:34:17.039 person could be reached and this thing happened, and they made this statement, 422 00:34:17.079 --> 00:34:22.840 this information was released. You see an order to it, right. But 423 00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:28.239 normally what happens is they consolidate this contenset into a report and a lot of 424 00:34:28.280 --> 00:34:32.280 times they're giving you things as if it is known fact and that This is 425 00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:36.440 the biggest complaint to me. I mean, I know this is not exactly 426 00:34:36.440 --> 00:34:39.639 where we meant to go, but we're gonna get there. This is the 427 00:34:39.639 --> 00:34:45.039 biggest complaint, right, is that, Look, they pushed that narrative out. 428 00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:46.599 That's great, that's what they had to work with to begin with. 429 00:34:46.679 --> 00:34:52.280 They don't qualify it necessarily. Okay, fine, but isn't there a way 430 00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:59.400 to follow up now when we go back to Dallas and where the narrative got 431 00:34:59.440 --> 00:35:01.320 lost? And by the way, I didn't even stick on the Israeli thing 432 00:35:01.320 --> 00:35:07.199 too long because that could become a very messy maze. And we are seeing 433 00:35:07.239 --> 00:35:13.000 a shift in the narrative. But again I urge people to really pay attention 434 00:35:13.079 --> 00:35:15.559 to what's being ignored and what's being dropped off, because, as Larry said, 435 00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:20.079 you get there first with that first statement, then there's a lot of 436 00:35:20.119 --> 00:35:23.159 things that could be followed through on. Take note of what is not being 437 00:35:23.199 --> 00:35:30.760 trumpeted afterwards, but is verifiable, right, do that always. It's going 438 00:35:30.840 --> 00:35:34.920 to allow you to educate yourself. Don't rely on Anderson Cooper to read it. 439 00:35:35.639 --> 00:35:37.920 Okay, it's going to have to come from what you can discover on 440 00:35:37.960 --> 00:35:43.239 your own. But let's go back to Dallas and why it was and what 441 00:35:43.480 --> 00:35:45.920 happened, and I don't know, maybe we could wrap it around to how 442 00:35:45.960 --> 00:35:52.000 it is. We could regain some sort of ground here, some integrity in 443 00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:54.400 the narrative, because that's really what people were aiming for here with this. 444 00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:58.679 What would Larry do, right, is what is it that you would tell 445 00:35:58.719 --> 00:36:07.000 people now that would be so important, so advantageous to getting at the reality. 446 00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:10.679 I know you listen, we'd all love to rewind it and say, 447 00:36:10.840 --> 00:36:16.039 you know what I mean, let's try and witness it right the going back 448 00:36:16.079 --> 00:36:20.679 to the Twilight Zone. If you will, remember the Twilight Zone episode in 449 00:36:20.719 --> 00:36:24.159 the eighties where you know they sent the historian back, Okay, just go 450 00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:30.239 to witness the assassination and it so happened that he was a professor Fitzgerald or 451 00:36:30.239 --> 00:36:34.960 whatever he was related to Kennedy. Okay, fun story. If you've never 452 00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:37.920 seen you guys out there, have you've never seen that Twilight Zone episode. 453 00:36:37.960 --> 00:36:40.679 I definitely recommend it. It's not the greatest twilight Zone ever. It's not 454 00:36:40.719 --> 00:36:45.239 the greatest Kennedy thing ever, but it's really interesting, I think, and 455 00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:50.039 fun, a lot more fun than Stephen King's crap. Oh did I say 456 00:36:50.039 --> 00:36:54.159 that out loud? I think I did anyways, But Larry, putting time 457 00:36:54.239 --> 00:37:00.159 travel aside, what is it that we could do now with the way that 458 00:37:00.280 --> 00:37:07.800 this narrative has gotten away from indeed the official explanation, but has also gotten 459 00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:15.320 away from the conspiracy advocate, you know, and and they're seeming, you 460 00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:21.239 know, constant efforts to you know, what is it we can all agree 461 00:37:21.320 --> 00:37:24.360 upon? Right? What are the basic tenets here? It didn't happen that 462 00:37:24.440 --> 00:37:29.360 way? Right? Everybody agrees with that? Okay, we can do that. 463 00:37:30.199 --> 00:37:34.719 Is there more than one person involved? Almost everybody can agree to that. 464 00:37:35.039 --> 00:37:38.920 Okay, now everybody does that, and then it drops because it becomes 465 00:37:38.960 --> 00:37:45.280 this we talked about it last time. In fact, this weird milieu that 466 00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:51.440 you end up with a Rob Reiner situation where okay, it's not on the 467 00:37:51.480 --> 00:37:55.760 side of the warrant commission, it's not on the side of the brief explanation 468 00:37:55.880 --> 00:38:01.760 in history books, which has evolved some but not much in the past thirty 469 00:38:01.800 --> 00:38:08.239 years, forty years. What is it that we could do now if we 470 00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:12.039 had the power to do it outside of asking for this, you know, 471 00:38:12.119 --> 00:38:15.480 more ethical reporting, which I think you just demonstrated would be would be you 472 00:38:15.519 --> 00:38:20.800 know, so much better for all of us. To be well informed about 473 00:38:20.800 --> 00:38:23.719 what's actually happening in the world. But then again, might not serve those 474 00:38:23.800 --> 00:38:28.559 that like to leave things nice and cloudy and like you to attach yourself to 475 00:38:28.599 --> 00:38:34.639 sentimentality as opposed to the reality. What is it we could do with it? 476 00:38:34.679 --> 00:38:38.320 Now? You think, well, I think the first thing would be 477 00:38:38.400 --> 00:38:46.440 to back up to the very beginning and and try to establish where a narrative 478 00:38:46.440 --> 00:38:52.559 emerges and how a narrative emerged, because there were multiple narratives. I mean, 479 00:38:52.119 --> 00:38:58.519 you don't you'd have to take It's like almost to require an AI to 480 00:38:58.559 --> 00:39:02.480 do this. An individual gave me another thirty years and maybe assessive I could 481 00:39:02.559 --> 00:39:07.880 do it. But you start going through the newspapers and you say, you 482 00:39:07.880 --> 00:39:13.000 know what was reported minute by minute, and where did it come from? 483 00:39:13.039 --> 00:39:15.960 And is it credible? You know? And long term did it prove in 484 00:39:16.400 --> 00:39:23.000 you know? So that that would be one way to establish the evolution of 485 00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:30.920 the story, because clearly the story as it started to be told that afternoon 486 00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:37.159 Ashley was the story of conspiracy. It was a story of multiple shooters. 487 00:39:37.800 --> 00:39:40.599 Okay, now not that that story's right, but that was the story that 488 00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:45.280 was reported for some time. I mean, I think you would you could 489 00:39:45.320 --> 00:39:55.639 literally say, from you know, twelve thirty until about oh, I would 490 00:39:55.639 --> 00:40:02.000 say until sometime on Sunday. There were several storylines emerging about conspiracy. I'm 491 00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:06.039 not saying that they were right at all. I would just say there are 492 00:40:06.119 --> 00:40:13.400 multiple stories in play. Then at one particular point in time, an actual 493 00:40:13.679 --> 00:40:20.840 narrative emerged that became the official narrative, if you will, and then sources 494 00:40:20.880 --> 00:40:25.119 started changing. But I think you'd have to walk through it almost statement by 495 00:40:25.159 --> 00:40:31.280 statement, story by story, and to do a fact check, to do 496 00:40:31.320 --> 00:40:36.239 a reality check kind of the same way we would we would do with this. 497 00:40:36.320 --> 00:40:45.679 And the problem being is we relied on the Warren Commission, with input 498 00:40:45.760 --> 00:40:51.400 from the Dallas Police and the FBI to do that story. They really wrote 499 00:40:51.440 --> 00:40:55.760 a story. They we know that they did not do an investigation. They 500 00:40:55.760 --> 00:41:02.400 created a story they were given an assignment to do. So, I mean, 501 00:41:02.440 --> 00:41:07.880 it's just well, everybody wanted to note now, let's just do it 502 00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:10.480 this way because the first week from the twenty second to the twenty ninth, 503 00:41:10.519 --> 00:41:15.119 I believe, because the twenty ninth is when the Warrant commission was proposed. 504 00:41:15.239 --> 00:41:21.320 Basically, right, if I'm recalling off the top of my head, correctly, 505 00:41:21.440 --> 00:41:23.360 wasn't it first declared on the twenty ninth of November that they were going 506 00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:28.280 to assemble the Blue Ribbon Commission and all of that, Like they had the 507 00:41:28.320 --> 00:41:32.039 basic idea about a week later. That seems a little early. I mean, 508 00:41:32.159 --> 00:41:37.000 Johnson went through three stages. He went through making an entirely at a 509 00:41:37.159 --> 00:41:44.440 Texas Commission matter with the AG driving it. He went through making an fbimatter 510 00:41:44.599 --> 00:41:51.519 with Hoover driving it. But you could be it took him at least a 511 00:41:51.559 --> 00:41:54.400 good solid week to jail on the fact that he was going to have to 512 00:41:54.440 --> 00:41:58.599 have a presidential commission. Okay, I'm not trying to I'm not trying to 513 00:41:58.639 --> 00:42:01.239 declare that. I know, trying to get a frame here. So I'm 514 00:42:01.280 --> 00:42:05.400 thinking that that first week is a bit of chaos, right. I mean, 515 00:42:05.440 --> 00:42:08.239 you have the initial reporting where you have multiple arrests. There was a 516 00:42:08.239 --> 00:42:13.679 man and a woman taken into custody, There was multiple people that were arrested. 517 00:42:13.719 --> 00:42:15.480 There was a guy that they brought in. The first guy they showed 518 00:42:15.519 --> 00:42:22.920 on the news actually was kind of I refer to him as the short chubby 519 00:42:22.960 --> 00:42:27.880 Oswald because he kind of looked like Oswald if he was shorter and like thicker, 520 00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:32.000 who was allegedly screaming his innocence when they brought him into the Dallas PD. 521 00:42:32.239 --> 00:42:36.360 Right, that was the first guy arrested. They showed him on TV. 522 00:42:36.800 --> 00:42:38.519 They talked about a man and a woman, and they took away another 523 00:42:38.559 --> 00:42:44.400 guy and somebody else had seen the pipe through the window and all this, 524 00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:49.480 so there was a bit of chaos and there was multiple people involved. Then, 525 00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:54.480 of course you have two days after Oswald's arrested. He's shot dead on 526 00:42:54.639 --> 00:42:59.519 TV. Now everybody says, oh, he's shot dead on TV everywhere. 527 00:43:00.159 --> 00:43:02.559 Really, actually only one live broadcast went out through one of the networks. 528 00:43:04.119 --> 00:43:07.519 Everybody picked up on it, and then everybody kind of you know, got 529 00:43:07.559 --> 00:43:13.039 to witness it after whatever. Once that happened, that caused a bit of 530 00:43:13.079 --> 00:43:17.880 suspicion. I think there was initial suspicion also in the conspiracy world immediately, 531 00:43:19.960 --> 00:43:24.039 you know, credit to Nigel Turner's scriptwriters there on the men who killed Kennedy. 532 00:43:24.039 --> 00:43:28.800 Tongues were lagging in Texas already, right, And I know that was 533 00:43:28.840 --> 00:43:32.760 a bad impression, but you know what I'm talking about. Obviously, Johnson 534 00:43:34.760 --> 00:43:38.599 is a player in Texas, and isn't it weird that Kennedy got killed in 535 00:43:38.679 --> 00:43:43.840 Texas. Kind of strange. The governor also got shot up, you know, 536 00:43:44.039 --> 00:43:47.480 another thing. So you have a bit of loose talk happening. You 537 00:43:47.639 --> 00:43:52.000 have a bit of how did he get shot from the front, from the 538 00:43:52.079 --> 00:43:55.360 side from this, because the initial report was he shot in the front, 539 00:43:55.400 --> 00:44:00.480 And by the way, initial reports on TV and radio, a lot of 540 00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:05.800 them did state that he was shot in the throat, not the back or 541 00:44:05.880 --> 00:44:07.639 the back of the neck or any of this. He was shot in the 542 00:44:07.679 --> 00:44:13.679 throat. There was the school book depository was in the initial because I've gone 543 00:44:13.719 --> 00:44:19.400 over the initial reports many times over many different networks, I mean independent broadcasts, 544 00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:23.199 talk shows that were going on in all over the country to see what 545 00:44:23.599 --> 00:44:30.199 was emerging, what was being stated first, and it's very confusing. Various 546 00:44:30.239 --> 00:44:36.320 guns, various players, various possibilities of conspiracy. One could say, in 547 00:44:36.320 --> 00:44:42.960 those first couple of days, the mainstream reporting did enough because a lot of 548 00:44:42.960 --> 00:44:47.280 people think it was Oswald from day one, but it wasn't necessarily all Oswald 549 00:44:47.320 --> 00:44:52.880 to begin with. It became all Oswald. But that first week is a 550 00:44:52.960 --> 00:44:57.519 little more messy than that, right, So let's talk about the initial narrative 551 00:44:57.880 --> 00:45:00.719 and where it starts a little bit of confusion gun Well, and I think 552 00:45:00.800 --> 00:45:06.679 that gives us something of a clue as to what's going on. As you 553 00:45:06.760 --> 00:45:09.559 say, it was chaotic, there was no official there. As matter of 554 00:45:09.599 --> 00:45:20.639 fact, the official narrative in regard to JFK emerged much later than the narrative 555 00:45:20.760 --> 00:45:24.480 on MLK, right, the narrative of MLK was out there within hours. 556 00:45:25.360 --> 00:45:30.440 Single shooter. You know, here's the narrative that didn't happen to Dallas. 557 00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:37.079 One of the arguments I have against the grand conspiracy thing with like this is 558 00:45:37.119 --> 00:45:43.760 really a grand conspiracy of kind of like everybody within the establishment, from the 559 00:45:43.800 --> 00:45:49.280 military industrial complex and the Joint chiefs to the city like this grand conspiracy, 560 00:45:49.719 --> 00:45:52.760 is that there was no immediate narrative. Anybody in their right mind, with 561 00:45:52.840 --> 00:45:59.159 the kind of professionals in hand, would have had a narrative with the evidence 562 00:45:59.199 --> 00:46:01.840 to support it, and it would be there and it would be good, 563 00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:06.760 it would be solid, and you dump it out on the street immediately. 564 00:46:06.920 --> 00:46:09.559 If you were going to frame somebody, you'd frame up good, not bad, 565 00:46:09.840 --> 00:46:15.880 which is what we have with Oswald that narrative. They actually don't even 566 00:46:15.960 --> 00:46:22.400 make a decision to start putting their narrative together until Sunday, Sunday afternoon, 567 00:46:22.039 --> 00:46:27.840 when the word is given within the FBI that will write a report that it's 568 00:46:27.960 --> 00:46:31.559 just Oswald. And one of my arguments if if you look at when the 569 00:46:31.639 --> 00:46:38.239 narrative emerges, you don't have a really organized, grand prepared conspiracy and not 570 00:46:38.480 --> 00:46:44.519 seize the narrative immediately. And you don't have to just seize upon MLK, 571 00:46:44.679 --> 00:46:47.800 by the way, because RFK, who dies a few months later, Honestly, 572 00:46:49.239 --> 00:46:54.119 they had both of those narratives much more streamlined immediately. In fact, 573 00:46:54.199 --> 00:47:00.840 you hear instantaneously almost with RFK, look we're not going to have another Dallas 574 00:47:00.840 --> 00:47:06.400 situation here. It was almost like you know, I mean that literally came 575 00:47:06.400 --> 00:47:09.960 out of more than one person's mouth. If I'm running a good frame, 576 00:47:10.599 --> 00:47:15.039 I set this up. So whoever is going to get set up really is 577 00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:17.920 you know, he's seen in the act, he's caught just like sure him. 578 00:47:19.039 --> 00:47:22.400 I mean, that's a good frame. I would you know, Okay, 579 00:47:22.440 --> 00:47:24.039 this is well done. Professionally, I don't say I like it, 580 00:47:24.079 --> 00:47:28.159 but I am at least you can say it's it's well done. And you 581 00:47:28.239 --> 00:47:31.880 had the narrative from the get go, and you had evidence from the get 582 00:47:31.920 --> 00:47:36.880 go. I mean, there was no waffling around who's gun it was and 583 00:47:36.920 --> 00:47:39.679 that sort of thing. And so I do think this is a lesson that 584 00:47:39.719 --> 00:47:47.480 we can learn in these incidents like was it? People have argued that are 585 00:47:47.639 --> 00:47:52.920 often argue about incidents being planned in advance. You know, Well, one 586 00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:55.599 of the ways that you can judge that is when does the narrative, how 587 00:47:55.679 --> 00:48:00.280 much chaos is there for how long? When does the narrative really emerge, 588 00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:05.920 and how solid is it? Because if it's really planned well in advanced by 589 00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:09.960 professionals, you know, there's a checklist, like you know, it will 590 00:48:09.960 --> 00:48:14.679 be well done right, and we don't. What we see in Dallas is 591 00:48:14.760 --> 00:48:19.039 chaos, and which is why we're left with all these leads. I mean, 592 00:48:19.360 --> 00:48:22.360 you do not want, you know, the chief of Polief in Dallas 593 00:48:22.400 --> 00:48:27.559 to go on TV that afternoon saying, oh, yeah, we saw this 594 00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:30.400 guy run down the knole and jump in the car with another guy and he 595 00:48:30.519 --> 00:48:35.519 drives them off and this that's where the assassin escape. You don't want that. 596 00:48:36.559 --> 00:48:39.800 This is not good unless you know, if you've plan for a conspiracy 597 00:48:39.840 --> 00:48:44.039 to be your narrative, right. Well, see, there's the thing with 598 00:48:44.159 --> 00:48:46.920 sir hand. Look, he's literally, you know, taken in, he's 599 00:48:47.000 --> 00:48:52.440 grabbed by people on the scene with a gun in his hand. Kind of 600 00:48:52.880 --> 00:48:57.119 good enough as far as you're not going to need to go outside of that 601 00:48:57.199 --> 00:49:00.880 story. Right, they got a guy with a gun in his hand who 602 00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:05.519 was shooting at the time. Now as to whether he shot Bobby Kennedy or 603 00:49:05.559 --> 00:49:09.039 not, another story, but pretty good as far as there's plenty of people 604 00:49:09.039 --> 00:49:12.960 there to back it up. There's a gun in the guy's hand, for 605 00:49:13.000 --> 00:49:17.280 sure. In the case of Ray, you've got a guy fleeing, you've 606 00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:22.320 got his stuff left behind. Okay, there is plenty there to work with 607 00:49:22.880 --> 00:49:27.159 and sir, and you've got a history. He hated RFK spoke out against 608 00:49:27.280 --> 00:49:31.199 RFK people saying that you've got nothing like that with Oswald, Right, you 609 00:49:31.239 --> 00:49:39.119 know, it's just like what my argument is, you can't have a totally 610 00:49:39.719 --> 00:49:49.880 expert professional conspiracy and screw the thing up this much. Well, somebody dropped 611 00:49:49.920 --> 00:49:53.239 the ball. Now, somebody might argue. Somebody might argue that his pro 612 00:49:53.400 --> 00:50:00.239 castro demonstrations in public is enough to say, well, obviously hated you know, 613 00:50:00.320 --> 00:50:05.639 like they said in that movie, who was it? I forget which 614 00:50:05.719 --> 00:50:08.440 character said it in JFK. But I remember it. Oswald he hated this 615 00:50:08.599 --> 00:50:14.400 country, he hated he was. Okay, so that part of the narrative 616 00:50:14.480 --> 00:50:17.320 sort of fits, But everything else is a freaking mess, because, well, 617 00:50:17.360 --> 00:50:21.960 if you're doing it right, I mean, the CIA's got some good 618 00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:25.679 people. I mean, at least Surahan had a notebook saying I hate Kennedy. 619 00:50:25.880 --> 00:50:30.280 Now why is it that Oswald's notebook? We have notebooks from both of 620 00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:35.159 them. Yes, I'm doing an addition job at some point in time. 621 00:50:35.239 --> 00:50:39.679 Over three years of notebooks and several there should be something written, even if 622 00:50:39.679 --> 00:50:43.920 I had to write it for him and plant it right now, why is 623 00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:46.880 that missing? Well? Yeah, why isn't there you know, some sort 624 00:50:46.880 --> 00:50:52.280 of anarchist cookbook in their you know, circling assassination, you know what I 625 00:50:52.320 --> 00:50:57.800 mean? Why isn't there you know, something about even let's just say they 626 00:50:57.800 --> 00:51:00.719 wanted to plant I don't know, a fictional book on him that has to 627 00:51:00.719 --> 00:51:07.320 do with a high level assassination or historical book regarding a political assassination where he's 628 00:51:07.400 --> 00:51:13.559 underlining things, anything like that would have been a lot more evidence, right, 629 00:51:14.199 --> 00:51:19.400 something to look we have means motive, opportunity, well, when you 630 00:51:19.440 --> 00:51:22.880 when you look at sir Han, like I said, here's here, you 631 00:51:22.880 --> 00:51:25.599 know, your your motive is there, your means is there. He's got 632 00:51:25.639 --> 00:51:30.159 a gun in his hand. Okay, again not saying that it connects to 633 00:51:30.239 --> 00:51:35.199 the evidence. I'm just saying that prima facia first base, a guy with 634 00:51:35.280 --> 00:51:37.800 a gun in his hand who is tackled on the scene might be the shooter. 635 00:51:38.199 --> 00:51:43.400 You know, the other guy Ray from King. I mean, this 636 00:51:43.440 --> 00:51:46.840 is a guy you can go back and show demonstrate he did not like black 637 00:51:46.880 --> 00:51:52.800 people, that he made racist remarks that he you know, you've got a 638 00:51:52.920 --> 00:51:55.920 history there, at least that lends some credibility. I mean, even within 639 00:51:57.000 --> 00:52:00.480 a you know, a couple of days, you can find a storyline there, 640 00:52:01.639 --> 00:52:06.239 so at least to that extent, you know, it's you've got a 641 00:52:06.239 --> 00:52:09.440 backstory. We just don't even have any backstory really on all in terms of 642 00:52:09.519 --> 00:52:14.039 Cuba. And I agree with you, Chuck, I mean, the only 643 00:52:14.119 --> 00:52:17.800 backstory that you've got there really is And it showed up in a headline in 644 00:52:17.840 --> 00:52:25.280 a Texas newspaper that Castro supporter kills Kennedy. Well that the strange thing is 645 00:52:25.480 --> 00:52:30.760 that's not really the narrative, is it? The narrative that emerges. The 646 00:52:30.800 --> 00:52:35.079 official narrative is not that a Castro supporter killed Kennedy. It's not like, 647 00:52:35.280 --> 00:52:39.159 no, it's if anything that's counter because he's we don't want to go there, 648 00:52:39.360 --> 00:52:44.599 right, We don't want we don't want to commedy whack the president because 649 00:52:44.599 --> 00:52:47.079 if the comedy whack the president, we might have to go after the comedies. 650 00:52:47.239 --> 00:52:51.159 No no, no, no no no no no no. Yeah, 651 00:52:51.199 --> 00:52:54.920 that's that's a bad backstory from the narrative that emerged. You know, So 652 00:52:55.079 --> 00:53:00.480 did somebody switch the narrative? Okay, oh gosh, guys, we we 653 00:53:00.599 --> 00:53:04.840 didn't think that that would be a bad story. We need to Okay, 654 00:53:04.840 --> 00:53:07.760 who's going to throw the switch and switch the narrative and turn that Castro Cuba 655 00:53:07.800 --> 00:53:13.800 part off? Okay, you can just see the back room meeting about that. 656 00:53:13.920 --> 00:53:15.800 Okay, Fred, did you not think of this? So Step one 657 00:53:16.079 --> 00:53:22.280 is to deconstruct how the narrative was assembled in the first place, right, 658 00:53:22.320 --> 00:53:25.639 not just the the typical official tracking, which again, you know, I 659 00:53:27.239 --> 00:53:30.920 highly recommend wall Brown's Warren Omission on this, a couple of other books that 660 00:53:30.920 --> 00:53:37.039 are out there that really detail how the Warrent Commission was put together. Exactly 661 00:53:37.079 --> 00:53:39.760 what the purpose was. How we get from the Gimberling report, you know, 662 00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:45.920 to the you know, the President's Commission on the assassination. How we 663 00:53:46.000 --> 00:53:51.920 get from one to the other. These things are chronicled, so there is 664 00:53:52.000 --> 00:53:55.679 a good possibility at being able to deconstruct the official government narrative, not a 665 00:53:55.719 --> 00:54:01.800 problem, but the media narrative is a little tricky, ear because there was 666 00:54:01.880 --> 00:54:05.599 a lot of loose things floating around, Like we both just said, and 667 00:54:05.880 --> 00:54:08.440 you saw some interesting headlines. Yeah, there was only one headline. You're 668 00:54:08.480 --> 00:54:13.119 right, I think it was. It wasn't a Houston newspaper. Maybe that's 669 00:54:14.159 --> 00:54:16.840 yeah, I think so, well, Houston or yeah, maybe San Antonio. 670 00:54:17.000 --> 00:54:21.880 Not sure Houston or San Antonio. Wasn't even a Dallas paper that basically 671 00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:24.000 said, you know, the Kami whacked the president pretty much. I mean, 672 00:54:24.039 --> 00:54:27.880 and I'm paraphrasing the headline, but it might as well have been that, 673 00:54:28.159 --> 00:54:36.280 right, which is kind of strange considering the loose media network. I 674 00:54:36.280 --> 00:54:40.800 mean, actually, if you would have expected anything with Lus's you know, 675 00:54:42.320 --> 00:54:46.000 obsession with the communist and with Cuba, that's you should have seen headlines. 676 00:54:46.039 --> 00:54:50.119 He should have called up, you know, picked up the desk and you 677 00:54:50.159 --> 00:54:53.000 know, you guys go look for a lead. You know, if this 678 00:54:53.199 --> 00:54:58.199 was if this was the Hurst era, certainly should have would have done it. 679 00:54:58.599 --> 00:55:04.000 But actually you're kind of missing all of those stories that you could have 680 00:55:04.079 --> 00:55:07.800 had. Yeah see, and nobody immedia. I mean it evolved over time, 681 00:55:07.960 --> 00:55:13.320 Okay, I'd start of surfacing that up in life and time over time, 682 00:55:13.320 --> 00:55:16.920 but not not for that first grab the headlines thing. Right. So 683 00:55:17.199 --> 00:55:23.119 look, there's two very weird elements here in this deconstruction of the narrative that 684 00:55:23.119 --> 00:55:27.960 one would have to take up, all right. And I offered one of 685 00:55:28.000 --> 00:55:32.320 them in our text conversation, which you and I both agree is very weird. 686 00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:37.760 And it's the absence of two things, all right. One of them 687 00:55:37.239 --> 00:55:44.480 is, you know, being that Joe Kennedy Sr. Had gotten involved with 688 00:55:44.599 --> 00:55:47.440 media, had been you know, involved with Hollywood and all that. It's 689 00:55:47.480 --> 00:55:55.360 strange to me that he didn't have a media organization, okay, ready to 690 00:55:55.480 --> 00:56:00.920 deal with this stuff, like he didn't have his own version of Life magazine, 691 00:56:01.000 --> 00:56:05.079 of the Loose network, you know what I mean, It wasn't there. 692 00:56:07.760 --> 00:56:10.159 Weird because you would have thought it would have been useful for his political 693 00:56:10.199 --> 00:56:15.079 aspirations, for his family it would have been extremely useful to have, you 694 00:56:15.119 --> 00:56:20.559 know, basically Joe Kennedy be the first ruper Murdoch, you know what I'm 695 00:56:20.599 --> 00:56:23.760 saying. Assemble. You couldn't assemble a TV network like that back then because 696 00:56:23.800 --> 00:56:28.400 there were rules against it. Although they stepped around it a little bit with 697 00:56:28.480 --> 00:56:34.119 Ladybird owning TV stations, but that story for another day. But you didn't 698 00:56:34.159 --> 00:56:39.320 have a media arm that was ready to roll. Okay, So that's one 699 00:56:39.320 --> 00:56:45.199 weird thing. The other thing is I am, in retrospect a little shocked 700 00:56:45.400 --> 00:56:47.480 that Life magazine. I mean, we know what they ran with. You 701 00:56:47.559 --> 00:56:52.159 and I have been over, you know, the evolution of Life magazine one 702 00:56:52.199 --> 00:56:54.519 way or another. We didn't specifically focus on it on a show, but 703 00:56:55.440 --> 00:57:00.440 we've had to touch upon it because it was a shockwave. Life Magazine was 704 00:57:00.480 --> 00:57:06.639 a huge thing. How Come we didn't have a Life magazine that basically said, 705 00:57:06.800 --> 00:57:10.519 you know, the comedies did this. Oswald's a comedy. Here's pictures 706 00:57:10.559 --> 00:57:15.079 of him handing out you know, here's some still frames from a film from 707 00:57:15.199 --> 00:57:20.880 WDSU TV in New Orleans of him handing out communist literature. I mean, 708 00:57:21.079 --> 00:57:23.199 you and I both know it's pro pastro stuff and we know the history of 709 00:57:23.239 --> 00:57:28.599 it. But either way, he could have put out pictures saying that here 710 00:57:28.719 --> 00:57:32.639 is Oswald handing out pro communist literature. This is his motivation. So there's 711 00:57:32.679 --> 00:57:37.400 the motivation, here's the gun the Dallas police found, there's your your your 712 00:57:37.480 --> 00:57:44.239 means right, and where's your opportunity? He was right about you could have 713 00:57:44.679 --> 00:57:46.960 Let's look at the photograph that they had on the cover of Life and the 714 00:57:47.000 --> 00:57:52.079 cover photograph they didn't. The cover they had on the cover of Life is 715 00:57:52.159 --> 00:57:58.039 Oswald with a rifle on a pistol, showing up holding up two newspapers, 716 00:57:58.320 --> 00:58:02.719 right, which yeah, are socialist and communist oriented. Nothing about Cuba. 717 00:58:02.960 --> 00:58:07.880 But for the last two years every other week at least Live magazine has been 718 00:58:07.960 --> 00:58:15.679 running headlines of Cuban exile raids against Castro Anto. Where where was Why didn't 719 00:58:15.719 --> 00:58:22.119 we see the photo of Oswa holding up a fair Play for Cuba committee leaflet 720 00:58:22.760 --> 00:58:28.519 or nothing tied Oswald to Cuba? They tell you kind of tied him to 721 00:58:28.599 --> 00:58:32.760 being like a radical, Okay, fine, but nothing. Life never tied 722 00:58:32.840 --> 00:58:37.760 him to Cuba, nor did Time, or really did any of the media 723 00:58:37.800 --> 00:58:42.599 didn't use all that stuff that was available. I think it's kind of funny 724 00:58:42.639 --> 00:58:46.000 because again we've talked about the fact and I've been writing about it. When 725 00:58:46.039 --> 00:58:53.880 somebody called up Scripts Howard News on that day and said, where can I 726 00:58:53.920 --> 00:59:01.400 get some background on this Oswald guy? They were referred to a fellow in 727 00:59:01.480 --> 00:59:07.880 Miami who was a friend and bosom buddy of David Phillips, who had a 728 00:59:07.920 --> 00:59:15.360 full resume on Oswell's castro activities pro castro activities. I mean, he was 729 00:59:15.400 --> 00:59:20.679 set to go and that's who people got calls to, just like you know, 730 00:59:21.159 --> 00:59:25.119 wasn't Oswell part of a group you know, on that news press meeting 731 00:59:25.199 --> 00:59:30.039 that night, But none of that really went to the next stage. It 732 00:59:30.159 --> 00:59:34.960 was all there. His background was available to everybody, but the press didn't 733 00:59:35.000 --> 00:59:37.880 focus on it. Well, here's the weird part of that too, Larry, 734 00:59:38.039 --> 00:59:43.639 because this is where it gets really strange in my mind. It's not 735 00:59:43.880 --> 00:59:49.840 like wdsu's footage was not available. It's not like the audio of that interview 736 00:59:50.000 --> 00:59:54.440 was not available, because I heard it rebroadcast over the course of that weekend. 737 00:59:55.239 --> 01:00:00.519 They already had the tapes in rapid fire, you know, based all 738 01:00:00.559 --> 01:00:06.239 over the country. They had distributed tapes and sent the audio everywhere really quickly. 739 01:00:07.119 --> 01:00:09.199 Him defending the whole thing about uh no, so no, I'm not 740 01:00:09.239 --> 01:00:15.119 a Communist. I'm actually a Marxist Leninist. That was out there, And 741 01:00:15.199 --> 01:00:21.480 yet the Booth looses, you know, Claire or you know, either way, 742 01:00:22.480 --> 01:00:25.480 nobody picks up on that, Like it is the strangest absentee thing I've 743 01:00:25.480 --> 01:00:29.679 ever seen. You would have thought, I'll give you something even stranger than 744 01:00:29.719 --> 01:00:35.559 that. That night, Claire Booth loose, husband of the guy who runs 745 01:00:36.480 --> 01:00:40.679 the US national media. I mean, if if Luc's group does something, 746 01:00:40.760 --> 01:00:44.920 everybody will follow, you know, that's he's going to lead the way. 747 01:00:45.239 --> 01:00:51.360 She got a call from Dre folks who she had actually been. She knew 748 01:00:51.440 --> 01:00:54.119 them, she had been donating money to sponsor boats, on and so forth. 749 01:00:54.679 --> 01:00:59.960 They told her, and we've got we've got a transcript essentially several interviews. 750 01:01:00.480 --> 01:01:06.440 They said, Look, we have infield traded Oswald's group. We have 751 01:01:06.599 --> 01:01:13.880 tapes, we have photos of him working with Cuban intelligence agents and being part 752 01:01:13.920 --> 01:01:19.320 of a sniper team that Castro sent to Dallas. Now, okay, fine, 753 01:01:19.360 --> 01:01:22.880 and we know she is a flaming anti communist as her husband is. 754 01:01:22.760 --> 01:01:30.599 So what would you expect. I would expect like five hundred time Life reporters 755 01:01:30.559 --> 01:01:35.800 to be on a plane going to pick that stuff up, right, and 756 01:01:35.880 --> 01:01:39.199 we're going to break this story. This is how hot could you get. 757 01:01:39.440 --> 01:01:45.440 I've been trying to go after Castro for three years and now these guys have 758 01:01:45.519 --> 01:01:50.880 got the goods on Castro. She didn't do that. She apparently doesn't even 759 01:01:50.880 --> 01:01:54.920 talk to her husband about it. She calls the FBI and says, I 760 01:01:54.960 --> 01:02:00.679 get the call. Maybe you guys should look into it. She doesn't really 761 01:02:00.679 --> 01:02:04.960 do even do that immediately, and they're FBI documents, But it's like, 762 01:02:05.639 --> 01:02:08.960 oh, the losers are not going to treat this as the biggest news story 763 01:02:08.960 --> 01:02:14.960 in history. They're just gonna file like the average person and call up the 764 01:02:15.000 --> 01:02:21.280 FBI number say oh, okay, how does that even happen? Yeah, 765 01:02:21.320 --> 01:02:24.239 that's that's the weird, Like I said, very strange thing. Unless somebody 766 01:02:24.239 --> 01:02:29.239 said, listen, don't focus on this because maybe it's not exactly what it 767 01:02:29.239 --> 01:02:32.599 looks like, that would be the only reason I would think that there wasn't 768 01:02:32.639 --> 01:02:37.519 a full page, you know, a full huge article, all right. 769 01:02:37.920 --> 01:02:40.039 You know they go through all the trouble of publishing those zu bruder frames. 770 01:02:42.280 --> 01:02:45.400 You mean to tell me they couldn't have gotten still shots off of his interview. 771 01:02:45.920 --> 01:02:50.239 They couldn't have gotten you know that that other short piece where you got 772 01:02:50.239 --> 01:02:52.760 the guy with the microphone standing there with him. You mean to tell me 773 01:02:53.000 --> 01:02:57.320 the footage of him when he's leaving court and he's got his arms crossed and 774 01:02:57.360 --> 01:03:02.440 he's watching bereng Geir walk by and people know Carlos Berengear is right. I 775 01:03:02.480 --> 01:03:09.440 mean, how did that not end up as a again a front page story. 776 01:03:09.639 --> 01:03:14.239 I mean, you put the gun in his hand and on his hip 777 01:03:14.760 --> 01:03:21.199 in one one big, you know, front page. Well how about we 778 01:03:21.320 --> 01:03:27.039 put again the procastro leaflets in his hand the next roun page. So not 779 01:03:27.079 --> 01:03:30.639 only does he have the gun, here's his motive. Now all we gotta 780 01:03:30.679 --> 01:03:32.719 do is what publish his work record next and show that he's you know, 781 01:03:32.760 --> 01:03:38.519 at the book depository. I mean it almost clear back there's a choke point 782 01:03:38.599 --> 01:03:42.199 on the narrative, right, I mean, I think that's one that that 783 01:03:42.280 --> 01:03:45.480 one thing that you could say, now it occurs well after the fact, 784 01:03:45.679 --> 01:03:49.159 it's not choked in front. I mean if it were choked in the front, 785 01:03:49.199 --> 01:03:52.199 those calls a lot of that would never happen, right right, So 786 01:03:52.360 --> 01:03:57.880 at some point, it's it's choked and there's I mean, the interesting thing 787 01:03:58.039 --> 01:04:00.679 is, as an interesting thing, we know that there were a number of 788 01:04:00.760 --> 01:04:06.719 calls between President Johnson and Loose's personal calls if you go back and look at 789 01:04:06.719 --> 01:04:15.239 his call log that occurred in the days immediately following the assassination. Was Johnson 790 01:04:15.280 --> 01:04:19.960 the choke point, I suspect, so because I suspect Louise wanted to the 791 01:04:20.039 --> 01:04:27.039 depth of his his gut to go with that story, just as Hoover wanted 792 01:04:27.039 --> 01:04:30.440 to go with that story. Hoover even wrote in a cover sheet to go 793 01:04:30.719 --> 01:04:34.440 along with the FBI report to Johnson that says, you know, there's still 794 01:04:34.519 --> 01:04:38.960 leads pointing to Castro that we'd like to pursue, so we would like you, 795 01:04:38.960 --> 01:04:41.639 you know, we'd like to have that in the report, so we 796 01:04:41.639 --> 01:04:45.480 don't entirely write off conspiracy. And Johnson just kind of ignored him. So 797 01:04:45.599 --> 01:04:53.039 there was a choke point, right. So, but that is informative because 798 01:04:53.239 --> 01:04:58.360 I guarantee that these are not the only instances where you would almost think something 799 01:04:58.559 --> 01:05:02.880 was a fit of complete with a certainty was going to occur given the information 800 01:05:02.920 --> 01:05:06.079 about it. Like I said, it's not like these things were not available, 801 01:05:06.159 --> 01:05:12.760 and the audio even of the stuff from DSU was being played in Cleveland 802 01:05:12.760 --> 01:05:15.719 already, you know what I mean. Oh yeah, it was flown out 803 01:05:15.719 --> 01:05:19.280 of well, I think we've talked about it before. You know, they 804 01:05:19.320 --> 01:05:27.280 had they had the translations done that English, but they had translations of Oswalt's 805 01:05:28.199 --> 01:05:31.960 remarks made into Spanish, right, I mean, a Spanish version of that 806 01:05:32.039 --> 01:05:40.320 interview was ready to go and did go within weeks onto a record, So 807 01:05:40.360 --> 01:05:45.920 it wasn't like the material was was curated. But that's that's where when we 808 01:05:45.960 --> 01:05:50.840 talk about the narrative and when it occurs and how it's happened. My thought 809 01:05:50.960 --> 01:05:58.599 was, if you look at all the stuff that was available, obviously that 810 01:05:58.840 --> 01:06:03.199 wasn't nobody shows to use it to seize the day for that narrative. So 811 01:06:03.239 --> 01:06:11.480 that kind of eliminates that from being eliminates it from being a part of a 812 01:06:11.519 --> 01:06:15.039 grand conspiracy where the people don't have a joke over it. You know. 813 01:06:15.079 --> 01:06:17.119 It's not not to say that you couldn't use it and put it in play, 814 01:06:17.480 --> 01:06:21.960 but somebody that's at the top of the food, yeah, food chain, 815 01:06:23.440 --> 01:06:27.360 somebody can turn the switch too. And this is another reason why I'm 816 01:06:27.360 --> 01:06:30.360 anxiously awaiting this, you know, for lack of a better word here, 817 01:06:30.400 --> 01:06:33.039 and I know it's going to sound a little strange, but the reframing of 818 01:06:33.039 --> 01:06:36.599 Oswald, if you will, that you're kind of doing at the moment, 819 01:06:36.679 --> 01:06:44.639 the reevaluation, and that that monograph that's going to come out. Do we 820 01:06:44.679 --> 01:06:46.360 have an ETA on that? By the way, well, actually, if 821 01:06:46.360 --> 01:06:50.800 anybody knows a publisher or an agent, we might want to take that even 822 01:06:50.800 --> 01:06:58.360 a little further. Oh okay, it's been suggested me. The thing is 823 01:06:58.360 --> 01:07:01.599 is now up to one hundred and fifty pages, and if it was published 824 01:07:01.639 --> 01:07:09.400 in conjunction with the Redbird Airport leads would make a pretty interesting book. How 825 01:07:09.400 --> 01:07:14.480 do I expect it to be in shape by the end of this month early 826 01:07:14.599 --> 01:07:17.679 next month to start going to peer review, have half a dozen people that 827 01:07:17.760 --> 01:07:23.360 don't want a peer review in fact check it in draft form, you know, 828 01:07:23.480 --> 01:07:27.559 rework it after that. But I expect the draft to be done in 829 01:07:27.599 --> 01:07:31.639 a matter of weeks. It's been making pretty good progress and one of the 830 01:07:31.679 --> 01:07:39.320 things I find fascinating about it to me is it's not going necessarily where I've 831 01:07:39.360 --> 01:07:44.599 been before. It's causing me to rethink, get a lot of input from 832 01:07:44.679 --> 01:07:49.119 some other people, and it's it's not a rehash. If anything, it's 833 01:07:49.199 --> 01:07:53.440 kind of like a kick in the butt, Right, did you not think 834 01:07:53.440 --> 01:07:56.639 of this before? Well, I'm looking forward to it. And I'll tell 835 01:07:56.679 --> 01:08:00.079 you if you were looking for a seven set of eyes, I know you 836 01:08:00.079 --> 01:08:02.719 said half a dozen people. I'm not saying that I would peer review, 837 01:08:02.719 --> 01:08:06.679 because I wouldn't necessarily count myself as one of your peers. But I would 838 01:08:06.840 --> 01:08:12.400 love a first look at it because you know, on occasion, I come 839 01:08:12.480 --> 01:08:16.760 up with some interesting things for authors to consider before they publish things. And 840 01:08:17.079 --> 01:08:21.319 oh yeah, and I'm looking for logical inconsistencies too, so that's no problem. 841 01:08:21.479 --> 01:08:27.039 A lot of this really is again if you try to step outside the 842 01:08:27.079 --> 01:08:30.920 box and say, I'm just not going to accept what we've been saying, 843 01:08:30.119 --> 01:08:33.439 and I'm not going to accept what I said before. You know, it's 844 01:08:33.479 --> 01:08:38.279 like, okay, I know I said that, but I didn't even have 845 01:08:38.399 --> 01:08:42.640 possession of all the facts then. I just I just saw I see material 846 01:08:42.720 --> 01:08:46.159 on people that I'm talking to almost every two or three days that makes me 847 01:08:46.319 --> 01:08:49.720 revisit things that I thought I knew. Oh yeah, I mean, I've 848 01:08:49.720 --> 01:08:53.600 tried to explain that many times that, you know, even in my position, 849 01:08:54.159 --> 01:08:56.319 you know, where people say, well, you know, you've changed 850 01:08:56.359 --> 01:08:59.319 a little bit about what you said about you know, ten years ago or 851 01:08:59.399 --> 01:09:01.800 so regards darting, you know, some little aspect, and I go, 852 01:09:01.880 --> 01:09:05.960 well, the fact is that new information has become available in the past ten 853 01:09:06.039 --> 01:09:11.720 years. Okay, there's been more documents come out. There's been a couple 854 01:09:11.720 --> 01:09:17.079 of other interesting things that have you know, that have crossed my path in 855 01:09:17.119 --> 01:09:23.039 the past ten years that caused me to reevaluate and to alter my understanding of 856 01:09:23.079 --> 01:09:26.159 it. You know, I didn't come to a conclusion already. I'm sorry, 857 01:09:26.359 --> 01:09:29.920 but I have not, and a lot of things are still open questions 858 01:09:30.479 --> 01:09:34.520 in my mind. It doesn't mean that i'm considering, you know, I'm 859 01:09:34.600 --> 01:09:39.840 still not on the side of saying, uh, well, I figure maybe 860 01:09:39.840 --> 01:09:44.439 the Warrant Commission got it mostly right. No, I'm not there. Yeah, 861 01:09:44.439 --> 01:09:47.159 I'm not going there. But a lot of other things that maybe I 862 01:09:47.239 --> 01:09:51.239 considered to be well this is absolutely the way it is, became a little 863 01:09:51.319 --> 01:09:58.720 less certain. Some things that I didn't know I do now know. And 864 01:09:59.039 --> 01:10:01.640 you know, so things do change when new information comes in, and I 865 01:10:01.680 --> 01:10:05.800 think a reevaluation of this stuff is necessary. I mean, it drove me 866 01:10:05.880 --> 01:10:09.880 crazy when there was like a certain little let's call them, a clique of 867 01:10:09.920 --> 01:10:14.319 people that for a little while said, you know, I don't need to 868 01:10:14.399 --> 01:10:20.760 read any of the new documentation. I already know enough from the Warren Commission 869 01:10:20.760 --> 01:10:26.159 in the HSCI. And I would say, you mean to tell me you 870 01:10:26.199 --> 01:10:33.880 haven't considered any of the post you know, AARRB information. You haven't considered 871 01:10:34.119 --> 01:10:39.000 any of that. And there was a little group of people that were like 872 01:10:39.039 --> 01:10:42.560 that for a while, Larry, I'm sure you heard it before, right, 873 01:10:43.079 --> 01:10:45.520 Why do I need the new information? The old information works just fine. 874 01:10:46.560 --> 01:10:48.479 And I'd say, well, you know, if you want to make 875 01:10:48.479 --> 01:10:51.960 an open conclusion and you want to state that you know you're not on Gerald 876 01:10:53.000 --> 01:10:58.479 Posner's side here, okay, fine, But if you're looking to understand what 877 01:10:58.640 --> 01:11:01.720 happened, if you're looking to come to some conclusions here, that might be 878 01:11:01.840 --> 01:11:08.199 you know, a certainty regarding whatever occurred in your mind. At least you 879 01:11:08.279 --> 01:11:12.399 mean to tell me you're not considering any of this new stuff. Nothing is 880 01:11:12.520 --> 01:11:18.960 legitimate that came out beyond you know, nineteen seventy nine. Seriously, and 881 01:11:19.000 --> 01:11:21.840 by the way, even though the work was completed in nineteen seventy nine. 882 01:11:21.840 --> 01:11:26.880 We didn't see most of it, you know. I know there were some 883 01:11:26.920 --> 01:11:31.039 public hearings and whatnot, and yes those were interesting, but you didn't even 884 01:11:31.039 --> 01:11:34.319 see most of what happened there. So what you're telling me is what was 885 01:11:34.359 --> 01:11:40.039 available in seventy nine effectively was most of what the Warrant Commission had. But 886 01:11:40.079 --> 01:11:44.960 I don't even think all the executive sessions were available yet. I got to 887 01:11:45.000 --> 01:11:47.640 think probably a little bit. But yeah, OK, And I think one 888 01:11:47.680 --> 01:11:51.359 of the things that I think one of the things that may have held us 889 01:11:51.439 --> 01:11:55.520 back a little bit, like the question of, well, you've had all 890 01:11:55.560 --> 01:12:00.319 these new documents released, so tell me what the smoking gun was like, 891 01:12:00.079 --> 01:12:05.760 No, there's no smoking gun. There's material. It helps us understand things 892 01:12:05.760 --> 01:12:13.359 that you know before I saw. Give you an example, before I had 893 01:12:13.399 --> 01:12:19.680 not seen I had seen photos of Oswald, two photos of Oswald at the 894 01:12:19.720 --> 01:12:26.119 walker House. I had not seen the whole investigation. I didn't realize there 895 01:12:26.119 --> 01:12:31.880 were two other photos. I didn't realize that they confirmed the positions from Oswell's 896 01:12:31.920 --> 01:12:36.680 camera. There's a whole nother story that I didn't know, and that's occurred 897 01:12:36.720 --> 01:12:42.199 in many of these areas. There you know, when I started out, 898 01:12:42.239 --> 01:12:45.640 there were bits of a story, and you might reach a conclusion off that. 899 01:12:45.279 --> 01:12:51.399 But then these other bits, not sensational in themselves, take you not 900 01:12:51.560 --> 01:12:57.279 necessarily to the same place. So they don't have to be sensational in themselves. 901 01:12:57.560 --> 01:13:02.520 They simply have to be relevant. And that's a that's really big deal. 902 01:13:02.680 --> 01:13:08.000 Everybody wants a smoking gun. Everybody, you know, did you finally 903 01:13:08.039 --> 01:13:11.319 find the documents that tell us what, you know, what happened? Well, 904 01:13:11.840 --> 01:13:15.479 I don't think there are documents that tell us what happened because they decided 905 01:13:15.520 --> 01:13:20.039 not to do an investigation. What can I tell you anyway? But well, 906 01:13:20.039 --> 01:13:25.920 in that that's covering the same. But that doesn't mean that you can't 907 01:13:26.439 --> 01:13:30.479 do better. Well that's the thing. You could still refine stuff and it's 908 01:13:30.560 --> 01:13:33.840 not you know, and the other foolish thing, you know, like like 909 01:13:33.920 --> 01:13:39.159 you talked about it, you know again, I pointed to the Lancer presentation 910 01:13:39.319 --> 01:13:43.359 you did, where like, look, if you're going to disqualify all this 911 01:13:43.520 --> 01:13:45.319 and tell me that, well, listen, you're not going to get anything 912 01:13:45.399 --> 01:13:53.079 useful because they've destroyed everything that would have been useful. Okay, that might 913 01:13:53.119 --> 01:13:57.119 be an explanation, And indeed, there is a lot of document destruction. 914 01:13:57.600 --> 01:14:02.560 Okay, maybe more than we thought we saw before even, but it doesn't 915 01:14:02.600 --> 01:14:06.520 mean Yeah, the good news Jack is, if you've been following our Murray 916 01:14:06.600 --> 01:14:11.880 Ferrell court case, you see that we have been given a win on document 917 01:14:11.960 --> 01:14:15.359 destruction by the judge. Well, tell people about that, by the way, 918 01:14:15.840 --> 01:14:18.319 if you ken real quick, and then I'm gonna let you go because 919 01:14:18.359 --> 01:14:21.439 I mean I've actually taken you well over an hour here. I'm sorry, 920 01:14:21.439 --> 01:14:26.680 but I got you know, I get entrenched in this and it's necessary because 921 01:14:26.960 --> 01:14:29.840 again, what would Larry Hancock do? Well, first we got to deconstruct 922 01:14:29.920 --> 01:14:31.880 what we have in front of us, and then maybe we'll have to do 923 01:14:32.399 --> 01:14:36.239 a follow up on this, like what theoretically would you do with it after 924 01:14:36.279 --> 01:14:41.399 we've actually figured it all out or not figured it all out, but you 925 01:14:41.399 --> 01:14:45.520 know what I'm saying, after we've actually got the framework and we know exactly 926 01:14:45.600 --> 01:14:48.920 where the narrative was fed from and what. Anyway, maybe there'll be a 927 01:14:48.960 --> 01:14:53.199 part two to this, But go go ahead and tell people about this this 928 01:14:53.359 --> 01:14:57.399 interesting win. Yeah. The best thing to do would they take a look 929 01:14:57.439 --> 01:15:01.159 at the Murray Farrell Foundation website, where we do have summary of ongoing findings 930 01:15:01.720 --> 01:15:08.720 and decisions in the court case. And it's true that we have lost part 931 01:15:08.760 --> 01:15:13.119 of the THEE have lost part of the case, I mean, especially against 932 01:15:13.119 --> 01:15:18.159 the President. But there are areas that the judge has found in our favor, 933 01:15:18.439 --> 01:15:23.399 and one of the more interesting ones has to do with destroyed and recovered 934 01:15:23.399 --> 01:15:30.039 documents, and we're advancing along that line. It may give us the ability 935 01:15:30.079 --> 01:15:32.920 to do discovery. I'm not going to the website says it better than I 936 01:15:32.960 --> 01:15:40.279 can do in the correct legal terms, but certainly the ability to pursue destroyed 937 01:15:41.119 --> 01:15:48.239 documents and say, take do depositions on the Secret Service destruction of documents about 938 01:15:48.319 --> 01:15:54.159 JFKSE trips that fall would be a real win for us. You know, 939 01:15:54.760 --> 01:15:59.079 that may not sound sensational, but it's certainly a real win for things that 940 01:15:59.119 --> 01:16:02.720 we have been pursuing that haven't been given to us. So yeah, I 941 01:16:02.720 --> 01:16:05.720 would just the quickst thing to do is kind of take a look at that 942 01:16:05.960 --> 01:16:11.399 and keep up to date on how the thanks are going in that court case. 943 01:16:11.880 --> 01:16:15.079 Right. Well, perhaps Larry, you'll give me the proper link so 944 01:16:15.119 --> 01:16:18.239 I can direct people to have them look at it for themselves, and we'll 945 01:16:18.279 --> 01:16:23.199 make sure to include that in the show notes, along with a link to 946 01:16:23.439 --> 01:16:27.920 Larry's blog and a couple of his books for sure, because again I recommend 947 01:16:28.079 --> 01:16:33.680 all of them. Although I'm telling you I'm anxiously awaiting this reevaluation of Lee 948 01:16:33.720 --> 01:16:39.640 Harvey Oswald because and that's a brilliant idea to put it together with the Redbird 949 01:16:40.600 --> 01:16:44.439 information. I think, even though the Redbird information has been out there freely 950 01:16:44.880 --> 01:16:47.279 and people can get a hold of it, I mean, possibly a refined 951 01:16:47.399 --> 01:16:51.279 version of that, maybe a few additions to be made, a little bit 952 01:16:51.279 --> 01:16:56.640 of this and that trimmed off of it could be a rather interesting book. 953 01:16:56.680 --> 01:17:01.159 I don't know what we would title it, but might be again, just 954 01:17:02.199 --> 01:17:10.760 more of a reevaluation of this rather interesting figure in history. Uh you know, 955 01:17:11.520 --> 01:17:15.319 a retrospective A I don't know what would you call that? A retcon 956 01:17:15.439 --> 01:17:20.600 retrospective? I don't know. Uh yeah, my I am wrestling with how 957 01:17:20.680 --> 01:17:25.560 you titled it. But the real, the real thing is, you know, 958 01:17:27.439 --> 01:17:30.319 Lee Oswald is a real person, you know, in three dimensions, 959 01:17:30.640 --> 01:17:35.000 and looking at him not just from the way the Warrant Commission did or the 960 01:17:35.000 --> 01:17:41.039 way that the skeptical community does, you know, taking him out of the 961 01:17:41.079 --> 01:17:45.840 boxes that's that's the real thing is taking him out of the boxes. Well, 962 01:17:45.880 --> 01:17:50.439 you know what a three D character sketch of Lee Harvey Oswald? Right, 963 01:17:50.520 --> 01:17:55.920 sketching a sketch of the character in three D? Uh? Something like 964 01:17:55.960 --> 01:17:59.119 that? And who knows, maybe a cover Maybe that's really the the cover 965 01:17:59.239 --> 01:18:01.600 idea that needs to be done, right, somebody actually trying to draw a 966 01:18:01.640 --> 01:18:08.239 three dimensional version of Oswald, you know, kind of an incomplete portrait, 967 01:18:08.720 --> 01:18:12.279 but in three D represented on the cover. Maybe that's the way to go. 968 01:18:12.640 --> 01:18:15.359 Not saying that's the title, but maybe that's the way to go with 969 01:18:15.399 --> 01:18:18.000 it visually, because that's what you're attempting to do. Is you know what, 970 01:18:18.199 --> 01:18:23.319 stop having the two dimensional character that we've been dealing with, whether it's 971 01:18:23.319 --> 01:18:27.800 the presentation given to you by the government you know that created the Warrant Commission 972 01:18:27.840 --> 01:18:31.000 supposedly to track down everything having to do with the president's assassination. But what 973 01:18:31.039 --> 01:18:34.119 did they do? Well? The first three people they interviewed happened to be 974 01:18:34.159 --> 01:18:38.359 all linked to this one guy who worked at the school book depository. And 975 01:18:38.399 --> 01:18:41.279 oh, by the way, three out of the four committees that they assembled 976 01:18:41.640 --> 01:18:46.079 to divide up the investigation I think actually had Oswald in the title of each 977 01:18:46.119 --> 01:18:50.119 of these three out of the four committees, if I remember correctly. You 978 01:18:50.119 --> 01:18:55.159 know, it's a weird organization when you're supposed to be investigating the president and 979 01:18:55.199 --> 01:19:00.199 they seem to have a fixation on a guy who was temporarily hired at the 980 01:19:00.239 --> 01:19:04.119 school book depository in Texas. You know, a phrase that I think would 981 01:19:04.119 --> 01:19:10.319 have never even entered the nomenclature had it not been for the events of November 982 01:19:10.359 --> 01:19:14.880 twenty second, nineteen sixty three. You know who it was looking for a 983 01:19:15.000 --> 01:19:17.560 job at the time. Yeah, I mean, who ever heard of a 984 01:19:17.600 --> 01:19:23.600 school book depository outside of that? I don't remember one being in my local 985 01:19:23.640 --> 01:19:26.960 area in Jersey. I mean maybe where you grow up, Larry, there 986 01:19:27.000 --> 01:19:30.680 was a school book depository, but it's not like it's the local library, 987 01:19:30.119 --> 01:19:35.640 you know, and every town has one. Anyway, I'm joking around now 988 01:19:35.680 --> 01:19:40.760 and again, want to point you guys out to go to larrydash Hancock dot 989 01:19:40.760 --> 01:19:44.840 com. I highly recommend many of Larry's books, all of them, indeed, 990 01:19:45.359 --> 01:19:47.680 and you can't you can't go wrong. So if you have a few 991 01:19:47.720 --> 01:19:50.720 and you want to fill in a few more, I suggest you do so. 992 01:19:51.479 --> 01:19:57.079 Creating Chaos Shadow warfare and some of the stuff that's available out there on 993 01:19:57.119 --> 01:20:00.800 the internet for free, even still because that Redbird lead might end up in 994 01:20:00.840 --> 01:20:04.560 a book that would be nice, but that's still available out there for free, 995 01:20:04.600 --> 01:20:10.720 as well as work on RFK work on MLK. The Awful Grace of 996 01:20:10.760 --> 01:20:13.920 God is a co authored book you and Stu Wexler. Of course, you 997 01:20:13.960 --> 01:20:15.439 know, I need to speak to Stu. Haven't spoken to him in a 998 01:20:15.520 --> 01:20:20.159 long time and would love to hear what he has to say about certain current 999 01:20:20.159 --> 01:20:25.920 events, even if he feels up to it. Maybe pass along a message 1000 01:20:26.000 --> 01:20:30.119 next time you talk to Stu. But you know, Larry, it's always 1001 01:20:30.159 --> 01:20:32.840 great to talk to you. What should we kind of close the night with? 1002 01:20:32.960 --> 01:20:36.720 As far as considering these things, first you have to deconstruct what went 1003 01:20:36.800 --> 01:20:41.079 wrong before you can figure out how to set it right. Would that be 1004 01:20:41.119 --> 01:20:44.560 the way to go or what? Well? Either that or I would definitely 1005 01:20:44.600 --> 01:20:49.000 say don't go with the first headline. There you go, so again, 1006 01:20:49.520 --> 01:20:55.600 author his story and really fascinating guy who puts up with me every other week 1007 01:20:55.680 --> 01:21:00.439 on Wednesdays now Larry Hancock, and there will be links in the description on 1008 01:21:00.520 --> 01:21:03.920 the podcast for you to follow up. We're gonna give you that link to 1009 01:21:03.960 --> 01:21:12.039 the Mary Farrell Foundation's recent progress. Let's call it in one of the court 1010 01:21:12.119 --> 01:21:17.960 cases, even though it wasn't a total victory, and a few other things 1011 01:21:18.000 --> 01:21:21.520 as they go. And I'm anxiously awaiting when we can sit down and talk 1012 01:21:21.560 --> 01:21:27.239 about I don't know, Oswald in three D or something like maybe a title 1013 01:21:27.279 --> 01:21:30.680 like that'll do you well, you know, Lee Harvey Oswald in three D. 1014 01:21:30.880 --> 01:21:34.560 That's it, no subtitle, just leave it like that, you know 1015 01:21:34.600 --> 01:21:39.520 what, Ask your wife, because I think she came up with some of 1016 01:21:39.520 --> 01:21:45.359 the best titles you ever had. Right anyway, no matter who you are, 1017 01:21:45.479 --> 01:21:49.359 where you are, when you are, remember this, I am merely 1018 01:21:49.359 --> 01:21:54.359 o'celly, all of you are indeed the effect. We had a very good 1019 01:21:54.439 --> 01:21:59.279 hour almost and a half with Larry Hancock, and thank you Larry for doing 1020 01:21:59.279 --> 01:22:02.720 this with me. Happy to do it. And we'll probably talk to Hilarry 1021 01:22:02.720 --> 01:22:05.520 in another two weeks, and who knows what we'll be talking about. Then 1022 01:22:06.880 --> 01:22:26.279 take care revelation through conversation. Wall Street window dot dot, gold, silver, 1023 01:22:27.319 --> 01:22:33.159 the stock market, Wall Street Window dot dot. Perhaps you're invested deeply, 1024 01:22:33.520 --> 01:22:38.760 perhaps you're not in deep enough. Maybe you're thinking about getting started Wall 1025 01:22:38.840 --> 01:22:43.680 Street Windows, do Condo, don com. Michael Swanson, the brilliant author 1026 01:22:43.720 --> 01:22:47.479 of the War State, understood these trends professionally for many years, and now 1027 01:22:47.520 --> 01:22:56.279 he gives you the benefit of his knowledge. Wall Street streamdo dot dot go 1028 01:22:56.399 --> 01:23:03.079 there, now go there, now go there now radio nuclear holocaust. You 1029 01:23:03.119 --> 01:23:08.039 know what uranium is, right? Think called nuclear weapons and other things like 1030 01:23:08.199 --> 01:23:12.359 lots of you know what uranium is? Right? Bad things things are done 1031 01:23:12.640 --> 01:23:16.359 with uranium, including some bad things nuclear holocaust. You know what uranium is, 1032 01:23:16.439 --> 01:23:20.760 right? I have been agree nuclear holocaust is nuclear holocaust. You know 1033 01:23:20.800 --> 01:23:26.079 what uranium is, right, think called nuclear weapons and other things like lots 1034 01:23:26.159 --> 01:23:30.279 of you know what uranium is? Right? Bad things things are done with 1035 01:23:30.479 --> 01:23:36.439 uranium, including some bad things nuclear holocaust, nuclear holoclear Holocaust, nuclear holocaust, 1036 01:23:36.880 --> 01:23:45.039 nuclear holocaust, nuclear holo. This is James Corby at Couper Report dot 1037 01:23:45.079 --> 01:23:49.359 com and you're listening to the Olly Affected dot com. Go ahead about today 1038 01:23:49.439 --> 01:23:53.600 assassination? Right, Well, what do you want to know? Baker's wild 1039 01:23:53.680 --> 01:23:57.800 claim? Oswald Girl rinds you knew Ruby and Barry answer weapons? Really? 1040 01:23:57.880 --> 01:24:00.560 I imagine I could claim I have four wheels? Does to make me a 1041 01:24:00.600 --> 01:24:03.319 wagon? But okay, Wald was on the building and trying to present the 1042 01:24:03.399 --> 01:24:06.600 murder of John Kennedy. Come on now has a real effort on the daffa 1043 01:24:06.680 --> 01:24:13.079 as fascination book into her claims. Go to Amazon dot com enter Judith Baker 1044 01:24:13.239 --> 01:24:15.720 in her own words. You'll get the results for a digital copy of a 1045 01:24:15.760 --> 01:24:20.680 book where Walt Brown utilizes her own words and the known evidence in the case 1046 01:24:20.800 --> 01:24:26.760 to get at well a different perspective. Let's say you can get Judith Ary 1047 01:24:26.800 --> 01:24:30.319 Baker in her own words from the author himself, signed if you request it 1048 01:24:30.399 --> 01:24:36.560 by contacting doctor Brown at kias jfk at aol dot com. It's a fun 1049 01:24:36.560 --> 01:24:43.439 book and it actually dissects the many, many fantastic claims Judith Very Baker in 1050 01:24:43.520 --> 01:24:46.159 her own words, Thank you for all the great information. The War State 1051 01:24:46.199 --> 01:24:50.960 by Michael Swanson explains the great national transformation that took place and put the Kennedy 1052 01:24:51.000 --> 01:24:57.119 presidency in the context of the times and reveals never before published information about the 1053 01:24:57.159 --> 01:25:00.439 Cuban missile crisis. President Kennedy would not have been assassinated if he had been 1054 01:25:00.520 --> 01:25:05.079 president two hundred years ago. His assassination took place in the context of the 1055 01:25:05.119 --> 01:25:10.039 Cold War, and the rise of the national security state. Before World War 1056 01:25:10.039 --> 01:25:14.119 II, the United States was a continental republic. In the decade that followed, 1057 01:25:14.159 --> 01:25:17.840 it became an imperial superpower. Generals such as Curtis LeMay not only wanted 1058 01:25:17.840 --> 01:25:21.520 to invade Cuba, but knew that there were short range missiles on the island 1059 01:25:21.640 --> 01:25:27.079 armed with nuclear warheads that they could not destroy because they were on mobile launchers. 1060 01:25:27.199 --> 01:25:30.279 Their invasion could have led to a Third World War, and they wanted 1061 01:25:30.279 --> 01:25:35.000 to go to war anyway. The War State by Michael Swanson reveals why and 1062 01:25:35.039 --> 01:25:39.720 will show you what President Kennedy was up against. For more information, the 1063 01:25:39.880 --> 01:25:45.560 Warstate dot com. In Denial The Secret Wars with air Strikes and Tanks by 1064 01:25:45.680 --> 01:25:51.520 Larry Hancock. Secret wars became a staple of US covert operations and are still 1065 01:25:51.560 --> 01:25:57.920 happening today. Larry Hancock's book In Denial ripped the cover off many of them, 1066 01:25:58.000 --> 01:26:00.399 using new files. It exposes things about the Bay of Pigs that no 1067 01:26:00.439 --> 01:26:04.600 one has ever written about before. It shows why it really failed and why 1068 01:26:04.640 --> 01:26:09.760 the United States did not earn from it. It also shows why other countries 1069 01:26:09.800 --> 01:26:14.640 today are doing secret operations with more success. This is the book that puts 1070 01:26:14.640 --> 01:26:19.600 what some want to deny into the light. In Denial Secret wars with air 1071 01:26:19.640 --> 01:26:27.199 strikes and tanks Larry Hancock. For more information, go to Larry hyphen Handcock 1072 01:26:27.359 --> 01:26:30.680 dot com. Pick up your copy of In Denial at Amazon dot com in 1073 01:26:30.760 --> 01:26:34.560 digital or physical form. If youse expressed by caller stools, there anyone else 1074 01:26:34.560 --> 01:26:36.960 who happens to get on the air to Jelly dot com. You not necessarily 1075 01:26:38.000 --> 01:26:40.960 replan views of the Jelly dot com or jocko Jelly, and we are not 1076 01:26:41.000 --> 01:26:44.560 responsible for any stupidity which might ensue. Thank it. Do you like history? 1077 01:26:44.840 --> 01:26:48.760 Real history that you were never taught in schools? Why the Vietnam War, 1078 01:26:49.079 --> 01:26:55.319 Nuclear Bombs in nation Building in Southeast Asia by author Mike Swanson, with 1079 01:26:55.479 --> 01:27:00.159 new documentation never seen before that'll open your eyes to events that led up to 1080 01:27:00.199 --> 01:27:06.039 this. Why the Vietnam War, Nuclear Moms and nation Building in Southeast Asia 1081 01:27:06.279 --> 01:27:13.880 nineteen forty five through nineteen sixty one. Get your copy today at Amazon dot 1082 01:27:13.880 --> 01:27:39.239 com. Why the Vietnam War by author Mike Swans, Oh Chilly dot Com, 1083 01:27:39.279 --> 01:28:05.760 My grandma I got college. They it well, you will be actionous 1084 01:28:06.000 --> 01:28:18.479 within your dime asage double well more and more people putting down. We got 1085 01:28:18.680 --> 01:28:25.520 diy for man stand it's getting a wound? Well not lie, no, 1086 01:28:26.079 --> 01:28:36.439 no, I me because no one ever died from smoking wed. You're kidding 1087 01:28:36.560 --> 01:28:49.520 me. You're kidding me. Yeah, yeah, you're kidding me. Well, 1088 01:28:49.960 --> 01:29:03.880 then it wouldn't ur job. They had to find another way to trick. 1089 01:29:08.479 --> 01:29:17.720 That's the best thing that could come up. Bewa, it's a gay 1090 01:29:17.720 --> 01:29:31.039 way, drugg and leads to other substances. You're kidding me, You're kidding 1091 01:29:31.039 --> 01:29:43.720 me, Yeah, you're kidding me. Well, more and more people putting 1092 01:29:43.920 --> 01:29:48.279 down, but we got badly for matter. Sand is getting a run? 1093 01:29:48.520 --> 01:29:57.239 Well what on the line nom now my being because no one ever died from 1094 01:29:57.279 --> 01:30:08.000 smoking? And we your hair? Uh are your kidding me? Are your 1095 01:30:08.079 --> 01:30:19.199 kidding me? Yeah? Yeah, are your kidding me? Real mother consteader, 1096 01:30:20.399 --> 01:30:41.720 majority man, the authority, five people like you and me? You're 1097 01:30:41.880 --> 01:30:50.399 kidding me? Are your kidding me? Yeah? Yeah? Are your kidding 1098 01:30:50.399 --> 01:31:00.439 me? Well? More more people put it down? You got that prefer 1099 01:31:00.640 --> 01:31:09.800 that the sand skirting around the word off blie darling now not heaving because no 1100 01:31:09.840 --> 01:31:23.199 one ever died from smoking. We hair you're kidding mean, but you're kidding me.