American Hostage is an Amazon Original and Criminal Content production. This podcast is based
on a true story of a hostage crisis that took place in Indianapolis in nineteen
seventy seven. Listener discretion is advised, Episode six, Playing with Fire.
Somewhere in the middle of the whole thing, they took a national poll of
how many people related to Tony kuritzis seventy percent of the country related to him,
the man with the gun. But I mean, let's be honest about
it, does anyone really root for the banker? We're back with Tony kuritzis
here on WIBC. I'm Fred Heckman. Before we took our little break,
Tony here asked us to open up our phone lines so listeners could call in
and give us their thoughts and questions on this whole ordeal. We've obliged Tony's
request and the lines are now open. So if you have a question,
feel free to give us a call. You've got to give out the number
for it. Oh right, yet, that's five five, five zero six
three nine, And I believe we have our first caller on the line now,
Hello caller, if you could introduce yourself. You're on the air.
Hello, Hello, this is Tamara. Yes, ma'am Tamara. Hello,
mister Tomorrow. Yes, do you have a question for Tony? Yeah,
yeah, I was. I was just curious what all that land stuff was
about. I heard that like what you said earlier about mister Hall screwing you
over, But just what was it all about? Let me tell you what,
mister Tomorrow. I am damn glad you asked. Now, let me
ask you a question in return. What is Indianapolis missing right now? I
don't know. I will come on think well, Tony. I don't think
she necessarily a high and steakhouse. I know we've got richer sins, but
I'm talking about a bona fide, real and mean steakhouse with product right out
of Texas. I'm talking to the leanest, best tender loins you ever had
in your life. I'm talking about angus like you've never ever had. I
grew up in this city and I never had a good steak until after I
get out of here, till after my father passed. I went a whole
lifetime without a good steak, and people deserve to have a good steak.
And that's just one restaurant I was going to develop a whole strip of restaurants
and shops. So I went up there to borrow money to build a ten
thousand foot restaurant. I would have drown between a million and two million bucks
a year, scream at her and in these motherfucker's shot at to somebody else.
I had a lessie who guaranteed one hundred thousand dollars a year in ranked
bus temper sent over a million dollars, and I could have built a building
for two hundred and twenty grand and put one hundred grand worth of equipment in
it. Now, what do you think about that, mister Morrow? All
right, Tony, we understand we should probably get to our next caller.
No, I want to know what she thinks about that, Fred, I
want to know what mister Morrow thinks about me having all that squared away,
all that squared away for her sake so she can have a great restaurant for
her and her family to go to in the city. Well, I'm a
vegetarian. Potatoes, then the best goddamn potatoes you ever had. No,
I agree with you. Mister Kurtz says it wasn't right that that you apparently
had all that going for you and they stepped in like that. That's right,
that's goddamn right. You see that, Fred, yep, I heard
her. Tony, mister Tomorrow, what's the maddest you ever been? Well?
I got fired from my favorite job about two years ago. I was
a waitress. H And did you deserve to get fired? No? No,
sir. I was never late. I always gave good service. Didn't
get along with the manager. And were you so mad it felt like you
wouldn't blow somebody's head off. I wasn't mad enough, sure, but you
know I got a daughter that I have to look after, and I didn't
know how I was gonna do that with with without a paycheck. You're goddamn
right, goddamn right. Do you see that, Fred? You see what
they're doing to us? I see it, Tony. Thank you, mister
Tomorrow. God bless you, Honey. When I get out of this with
my money, you come down to the restaurant and I'm gonna take good carry
you. Thank thank you, sir, Thank you. Mister Curtsis you bet
all right? We're we're gonna move on, move on to our next caller.
So you hear that, Fred? So I told you, I told
you they would get it to people. Get it, Fred, and our
next caller is on the air. If you could introduce yourself please, Hi,
this is Leah, Oh another woman. You've turned me into a real
ladies man. Fred, you have a question for going Jesus say you love
him? It's better than the alternative. Yeah, because what he's been missing
is some encouragement. Chief Gallagher is probably blowing a gasket right now. What
what come in, jo? Leo Malone? Yes, what can I do
for you? We need to talk to you about how long Fred's going to
broadcast? Hell, that's an answer I don't have, Leo. At this
point, it seems like it's up to Tony. Well, we need to
kill it fast. Chief wants to send in Swat. How the hell is
SWAT going to defuse anything? Swat thinks they can incapacitate Tony and get in
the apartment without setting the bomb off, And how are they going to do
that? Magic s No, the incredible shrinking man. Can't you get Fred
to shut the broadcast down? Fred isn't the issue, Leo, I know,
But if he doesn't, they've got orders to go in asap and there's
no counting for what'll be air all right, I'm sorry. I don't understand,
and I need this question answer. Just what the hell are they gonna
do? They're gonna gass him, gass him? You can't gass him.
If he falls unconscious, the gun will go off. Jim. We've been
through this one hundred times down here. Just who the hell are you saving
right now? The bomb is the priority. They don't know what it looks
like, they don't know what it's made of, the potential blast. Now
you got everyone else out. Well, he can't blow up an entire fucking
building, Sally, About one hundred or so people live there. Anyway,
it's a swat call. Swat just wants to play with their toys. All
right, Does she have to be in here? Hey, don't talk to
her like that. Now, Now you're saying that they have given up on
Dick call? Is that I'm not saying that at all. Well, if
they're gas and Tony to get in there and cut off the bomb, Jim,
are you telling me that you're not going to talk to Fred Sally,
go get agent Peterson. Yes, Sir Peterson doesn't make the calls. He
makes the calls here. He's federal. He makes the calls. I'm just
the messenger, Jim, just a messenger here, Leo. I was on
the phone with the FBI just this morning, and I promised them I would
listen to Roy Peterson. Now, don't don't you throw me in between you
got We'll see what Peterson says. Then, goddamn right, well, your
bitch saving the building. God damn, Peter, it's a downright fucking shame
what they said about me. I've had the TV and radio going the whole
time, and the things I've been hearing are just boggling my mind. They
said, you almost killed your sister with an axe. They said, what
now, Yeah, that's what was on with today, that you almost killed
your sister with an axe. Now I didn't see that, but that's a
goddamn lie. That is a goddamn my friend, do you hear the shit?
Are you hearing this? Tell how that's a lie? Friend? Well,
if that's what you say, it is, Tony, I'm inclined to
take your side. It is a lie. You tell well, Peter,
it seems uh uh, it seems that what Tony is saying is telling him
Fred. It seems like that was misreported, Peter. They'll do anything.
They're trying to get one over on me. They'll lie and they'll cheat.
They're all liars. They think I'm a nutcase with the gun. He's just
having a bad Do you think I'm anotcase with a gun? Peterson? No,
sir, what do you think I am? Peter? I think you
got pushed to where you can't take it anymore. That's fucking right, you
understand me. Just write Pal, you're hit the nail. I'm all right.
Who's saying that's what's going in? Agent Peterson? I'm Leo More.
Okay, you call the chief right now and you tell them the back off
right now, Agent Peterson, I know for a fact. Look they're not
gonna do it. Then I'll call. They're gonna say you're out of your
jurisdiction. Well, they called me, they brought me out here. You
get Eugene on the phone right now. You tell them the back off,
Jim, Can I use your phone? Guest, christ is the closest thing
we've had the progress in two days, and you're gonna have swapload Dick calls
at off. Just the messenger. We'll get him on the phone. Tony.
I think we've got time for just one more caller. You see what
I'm talking about. Fred. It has been quite a trip, Tony.
These people get it, Fred, so hopefully you get it to These people
know what it's like to be at the end of their rope, and they
may not him done what I've done, but they've wanted to. What's wrong
with this country? Fred? Well, I think it's a great country,
Tony, but there's always room for improvement. That's right, that's right now.
I don't want it to seem like I don't love this country. I
do. I serve that this country is my life. But it's got to
do better, and the banks have got to do better, or they need
to go because they're strangling up. Tony. Won't need to take a short
break here, so it stay on the line there, Tony. If you
would like to call into the station, our number is five five zero six
three nine day. We got to continue. His name is Riley WI DC.
We're back with Tony kurtzis here on WIBC. I'm Fred Heckman. Well,
this will be the last caller of the dead caller. You're on the
air. Hello, this is brother Jackson speaking brother who's a brother. I'm
the minister down at the church, the Christ the redeem of Baptist Church.
Oh, I'm minister now. I'm just gonna tell you right now, Jackson,
that I'm no man at God and you're wasting your time. This isn't
a call for conversion. Mister Curtzus, Well, good good on that,
because that sure is hell not happening, Brother Jackson. What would you like
to ask Tony Well, mister Critzus, I called today because i'd like to
make you an offer. An offer. What's your offer? I'd like to
take the place of mister Hall. You want to do what Chief's not picking
up. Get a hold of him right now. I'm trying. Cliff Anderson's
down there right now with the lawyers. Sally, you get to your desk
and you called Cliff. I swear to God it already since swatop it's ringing.
You all may have just killed Dick Cale and everybody's gonna hear it.
I don't know what you're on, Jackson. Mister Cariszus, if you just
hear me off for one moment. Now, I know your anger. I've
known it myself, and I've known it for many years. I don't want
you to tell me how hard you've had it pastor because I've had it just
as hard for just as long. I'm telling you right now, nobody knows
the adversity I've been through. Nobody and willing to be with you in this
moment. Mister Critzus, stop calling me mister Carissus like you're trying to be
some damn gentleman. Now. I don't know what you're about, Master Jackson,
and I'm sure you're a fine man, but you're trying to take away
the last thing that I got. So if you need somebody, you can
take me. You can take me and we'll go wherever you want and talk
about whatever you want. You aren't fucking listening to me. You aren't fucking
listening to me at all. Cliff, it's Sally. You get to Chief
Gallagher right now. You yell and scream at him to pull swap back.
Now, you drop the phone right now, tell Gallagher. The FBI says,
to stop swats you. You are listening to me. You are listening
to Jackson. Tony seems adamant on keeping things the way they are and given
how suation, Fred, don't you try to fight my battles for me,
Fred Now, I know you're trying to help me battle and Jackson, I
know you're trying to help. You're goddamn insane, but I know you're trying
to help. But let me be crystal fucking clear about this. Nobody's got
to worry about the state of my soul. Let me tell you what this
man has done to me, how he and his family have cheated me,
how they've wronged me. I've never been a great man, but I've been
good, all right, for all of my life. And what I'm doing
now is justice. It's just as so great that I fear is I haven't
split in his head. Open is gonna be my ticket in. I'm gonna
walk right through those burly gates and shake the hand of God, and all
he's gonna say to me is a good job. S down. You know
this is not the way my brother. All right, We're gonna pull back
on all of this now and let Tony speak with his lawyers. You know
I don't want you, Jackson. It's enough for trades. Look at you.
I'm not killing anybody wanting to trade lives with a stranger. It's not
the same with you. There's no justice with you, and I don't want
anybody to put what's that? TONI are you? Are you okay? Talk
to me? Talky Buddy's name and Tony are you there? Tony? Tony?
Can you? Can you hear brother Jackson? Or you're still here?
He sounds like we lost Uh, folks, h folks, I'm I am,
Oh my god, folks. I'm gonna drop you into some music while
I call Tony back and see if I can get him on the phone.
Thank you for listening. Well, I'll be back in the moments right after
this. A right, what happened? Hey? What happened? Trying him
again? Sally? Sally didn't? I got it? He just shung up.
I don't Gallagher, I was sittting, swatted he was what. We
tried to pull him back, but I don't know if we got to him
in time. Well, he's not picking up Broy. I don't. I
don't know what. Okay, come on, let's go see what's happening on
the police radio. Hello, Tony, Honey, it's me Barbara. What
happened, Barbara, sweetheart? We need to keep this line open for Tony.
Fred what happened? We don't know yet, honey, I'll call you
right back. Okay, what do we know? Sally's got Cliff on the
phone. What's what's he saying? He stepped away, he's getting hang on,
Cliff, I'm here, We're here. What happened? Swap was going
up, but Gallagher pulled them back. Gallagher pulled them back in time.
Oh thank god, thank god. Then I have a heart attack. But
Sally, Tony knows that's something is happening. Wait, I'm sorry, say
that again, Claire. I said that Tony knows they were doing something,
and he's hopping mad. Tony knows what they were doing. He knows.
Hello, friend, you don't just happen to me. No, No,
what's going on Tony talking about? Because you're trying to gasp me out?
Friend? They just tried to gasp me out. They're trying to kill me,
friend. Listen, Tony, I'm sure there's another explanation trying to kill
me friend. These fuckers want me dead, which means they want Nick dead,
and he and I are not happy about it at all. Tony looked,
let's just calm down for a moment, to down, told me to
calm down. I've never been so goddamders in my mind, what would he
do that? Friend? I don't know, Tony, I don't know.
It was a stupid thing to do. Offer me five billion dollars and then
they try to kill me. How I'm training his things up? Fred,
you're hearing me? What do you mean, Tony? Tomorrow night, We're
not doing this radial bullshit? No more, no more. Now you heard
how the people understand me. You know what I mean to them? No,
everyone cares about you, Tony. Everybody wants us to work out the
new stations. Get one day, Fred, one fucking day after the stuff
they just tried to pull. I mean, I don't feel safe in my
own home. So you tell them this is how it's all gonna go down.
What's gonna go down tomorrow night, APM. I want to tell vising
news conference nationally, all three channels. I want a letter of apology written
by the Anster House Corporation. I want my airtime, Fred, and I
now I want to be seen. So these stupid folks are these asshole big
fuckers can't try to do anything stupid because everyone will see them. Do you
understand what I'm telling you? Fred? Yes? I think what you're saying
is what if you put on TV. That's exactly what I'm saying right here
my apartment. Eight o'clock. You tell them, I'll tell them, And
I want you down here. Fred. You're my best friend and we're in
this together, are we? Pal? Cred Babe, you're coming down here,
right Pal. I'll be there, Tony. Yes, you're a good
man. Fred. I'll see you tomorrow night, eight pm. I'll see
you, Tony. You spend the night with your wife, Fred, because
it's going to be a hell of a day tomorrow, battle, a hell
of a day. I didn't just make myself a part of the story.
I pulled the whole station into it with me. I never once stopped to
think about what it might do to them, the ramifications. Once I had
my sights on the prize, I put the whole station, the whole city,
really in jeopardy. Tony Churtzis had been screaming into the void for years
before the world noticed him, before I heard him. But that doesn't mean
I should have let him speak next time on American Hostage. You shouldn't be
going down there. Frand the only one Tony feels comfortable without harm. You're
not listening to me. They're going to kill him. He's still praying for
me. Yeah, having talked to Tony this morning, or you have satisfied
that he would be willing to trust you. The goddamn cameras are. I'm
gonna show you something. Hello, Tony, He's calling the house now.
American Hostage is an Amazon Original and criminal content production written by C. D.
Carpenter, directed by Sean Christiansen, produced by Adam Volerich and Brendan Hubbard.
Executive produced by John Hamm, Sean Christiansen and Gabriel Mason, starring John
Hamm, Carla Gugino, Joe Perino, Dylan Baker, and Becky Anne Baker,
with additional performances by James O'Connor, Christina Brucado, Michael Dreyer, Ryan
Willard, Mara Casson, Brian Wilson. Sound designed by Brandon Jones, composed
by Darren Wrzy, Editing by Thomas Beach, Sean Christiansen and Adam Voolridge.
Recording and engineering by Dave Williams, Mixing, mastering and additional editing by Nick
Massidi. Id reads by Natalie Prass for Amazon Music. Executive producers are Morgan
Jones and Dave Easton. Senior Producer is Eliza Mills. Special thanks to Jacob
Braunstein, Phil Sanchez, Chris Davis, Jack Parker, Marcelino, v Yelpondo,
Stephanie Walkney, Blad Norman, Vanessa Rebert, Sam Petherbridge, Cale Bittner,
Alice Zoe, Trevor McNeil ty, Jacobsen, Rich Sherman Marshall, Louie
w IBC, WISH TV, and Creative Artists Agency