WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.800 --> 00:00:07.440 Welcome to Open Minds Radio with your host Alejandro Rojas, former official spokesperson for 2 00:00:07.519 --> 00:00:12.839 the Mutual UFO Network. Alejandro who's been a UFO paranormal researcher and journalists for 3 00:00:12.919 --> 00:00:17.719 nearly a decade and has long hours in the field investigating the paranormal up close 4 00:00:17.760 --> 00:00:22.719 and personal, and now Open Minds Radio presents evidence in the latest news regarding 5 00:00:22.760 --> 00:00:29.719 the UFO phenomenon. Here's your host, Alejandro Rojas. Hello, and welcome 6 00:00:30.079 --> 00:00:35.679 to Open Minds Radio, your UFO news authority. This is Alejandro Rojas, 7 00:00:35.719 --> 00:00:41.000 and we have another spectacular guest. And I always am excited about the guests, 8 00:00:41.640 --> 00:00:45.240 you know, and I'm equally excited. I really am genuinely excited with 9 00:00:45.359 --> 00:00:50.399 all these people, whether they be a sergeant in the Air Force who touched 10 00:00:50.399 --> 00:00:54.799 the UFO, or whether they be our guest today, David Walks as Bear, 11 00:00:55.560 --> 00:01:00.520 who is an Inner tribal elder. He's an author, speaker, a 12 00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:04.719 syndicated columnist. He's done it all and he's going to be here talking to 13 00:01:04.799 --> 00:01:10.959 us about some of the UFO research that he's done. And he's also going 14 00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:17.159 to be talking about some of the Native American legends and folklore and their connection 15 00:01:17.280 --> 00:01:19.439 to UFOs, So that's a great topic, one of my favorite topics. 16 00:01:21.200 --> 00:01:25.959 I haven't spoken at length with David Watson's there before, so I'm excited to 17 00:01:25.959 --> 00:01:27.760 hear what he has to say. Seems like a great guy, and he 18 00:01:27.799 --> 00:01:34.319 has some really interesting fiction novels that he writes, so that's exciting. I 19 00:01:34.359 --> 00:01:37.280 do have to say it, or I want to say hi to my cousin 20 00:01:37.359 --> 00:01:41.359 Jim. This is kind of funny. You know. My mom told me, 21 00:01:41.400 --> 00:01:42.640 Hey, your cousin Jim listens to all your shows, and I was 22 00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:45.840 thinking, oh, that's great, I'm gonna say hi. And then of 23 00:01:45.840 --> 00:01:49.120 course he has to make it a big deal in the family and tell my 24 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:52.879 aunt and they got to call each other back and forth. I'm gonna say 25 00:01:52.959 --> 00:01:55.879 hi on the show and make a big embarrassing deal out of it. So 26 00:01:56.599 --> 00:02:00.640 sorry about that, Jim, but thanks for listening. It's always exciting to 27 00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:04.400 hear of other listeners out there that you didn't know you had, so that's 28 00:02:04.480 --> 00:02:07.840 really cool. A couple other things I wanted to mention. We have been 29 00:02:07.919 --> 00:02:14.039 picked up by another radio network. We're being played on black Volt Radio. 30 00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:19.680 That's headed up by John Greenwald, who started the Black Volt dot com type 31 00:02:19.719 --> 00:02:22.400 of thing, and this is he's an amazing guy. We're going to have 32 00:02:22.520 --> 00:02:27.400 him on next month because as a high school student he started putting in Freedom 33 00:02:27.439 --> 00:02:30.879 of Information Act requests on UFOs and was receiving a lot of stuff. In 34 00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:37.479 fact, he's probably got I think he still has the largest database on documents. 35 00:02:37.479 --> 00:02:40.879 He even had people, I think it was a CIA or someone harassing 36 00:02:40.960 --> 00:02:46.240 him at his high school over this. And we'll be talking to him soon. 37 00:02:46.639 --> 00:02:50.240 He's a great guy. He always does the move on symposiums and does 38 00:02:50.439 --> 00:02:54.800 the mcne there. But we're real happy to be on his network of great 39 00:02:54.919 --> 00:03:00.800 radio shows. I also want to remind you yet again, and I'll not 40 00:03:00.960 --> 00:03:05.000 be reminding you this in another month. Here a couple of weeks because it's 41 00:03:05.080 --> 00:03:08.639 Roswell and it's coming up real quick here the July fourth weekend, from the 42 00:03:08.680 --> 00:03:13.719 first to the fourth, it's the Roswell Festival in Roswell in New Mexico. 43 00:03:14.120 --> 00:03:19.080 Of course, the famous alleged UFO crash out there. That's gonna be a 44 00:03:19.159 --> 00:03:23.520 lot of fun. They have fireworks, they have parades, they have contests, 45 00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:29.080 they have rides, they have a bunch of different vendors. It's always 46 00:03:29.159 --> 00:03:32.520 a lot of fun, So come check that out. You can read more 47 00:03:32.520 --> 00:03:38.120 about it at our website at openminds dot tv. And I do want to 48 00:03:38.120 --> 00:03:42.439 remind you you can also watch us live at open minds dot tv if you 49 00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:46.400 want. We have chat there or you can chat back and forth and you 50 00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:50.280 can ask questions from our guests, and you can also see us live. 51 00:03:50.360 --> 00:03:53.919 Me and Jason here, and we're looking really good in our open mind polos 52 00:03:53.960 --> 00:03:58.680 here, so you're gonna want to check that out. That's at open mindsat 53 00:03:58.680 --> 00:04:03.520 TV. On the radio tab speaking of Jason. Every week we talk about 54 00:04:03.560 --> 00:04:10.599 some of the latest UFOs in the conventional media headlines, and we have our 55 00:04:10.639 --> 00:04:15.439 news correspondent Jason McClellan here to share the news with us. Hello Jason, 56 00:04:15.719 --> 00:04:18.480 greeting, z Alejandro, greetings, my friend, Hello Phoenix, and hello 57 00:04:18.600 --> 00:04:23.639 world. This is your Open Minds Newsbrief for Monday, June fourteenth, twenty 58 00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:28.360 ten. I'll start with a story that seemed to pop up everywhere last week. 59 00:04:28.720 --> 00:04:31.879 AOL News just did a story on the well known UFO researcher Stanton Friedman, 60 00:04:32.160 --> 00:04:35.279 a friend of ours and someone we've had as a guest on the show 61 00:04:35.279 --> 00:04:41.519 recently. Stanton Friedman is a nuclear physicist who worked on highly classified programs involving 62 00:04:41.600 --> 00:04:46.040 nuclear aircraft and fission and fusion rockets. As he is mentioned in countless lectures 63 00:04:46.120 --> 00:04:50.120 around the world. Friedman told AOL News that we are dealing with a cosmic 64 00:04:50.199 --> 00:04:56.519 watergate. Having investigated the UFO phenomenon for more than fifty three years, Friedman 65 00:04:56.600 --> 00:05:00.319 believes that there are people within major governments who have known some UFOs are alien 66 00:05:00.360 --> 00:05:05.680 spacecraft. Since nineteen forty seven, Friedman's research was instrumental and uncovering evidence related 67 00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:11.439 to the famous Roswell incident at seventy five. He continues to continues his research 68 00:05:11.519 --> 00:05:15.639 and lectures frequently at colleges and conferences around the globe. And if you're lucky, 69 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:21.319 you'll be seeing Stan Friedman here in Phoenix at the International UFO Congress in 70 00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:26.079 February twenty eleven. That is right, our congress, and we're going to 71 00:05:26.160 --> 00:05:29.959 have the famous Stan Friedman. Of course, people who go to these conferences 72 00:05:29.959 --> 00:05:32.079 a lot it to probably think I've taken him a million times, but he's 73 00:05:32.120 --> 00:05:34.920 always a lot of fun to see. He's very witty. He was on 74 00:05:34.959 --> 00:05:39.120 our show and that was a lot of fun. And it's great to see. 75 00:05:39.240 --> 00:05:46.279 They were taking him very seriously too on these different articles that were written, 76 00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:50.240 and AO all seems to have picked up UFOs lately and they're writing serious 77 00:05:50.319 --> 00:05:54.000 articles. They should be writing a lot about it. And you're right, 78 00:05:54.079 --> 00:05:56.959 it's interesting the tone that they're taking with this. I mean, in the 79 00:05:57.000 --> 00:05:59.920 past, you know, if they happen to do an article on someone likes 80 00:06:00.199 --> 00:06:02.879 Friedman, it was sort of goofy, sort of tongue in cheek. Yeah, 81 00:06:02.920 --> 00:06:05.639 but this seems to be, you know, taken very well, and 82 00:06:05.839 --> 00:06:10.040 a lot of media outlets picked up on the story. He's a great guy. 83 00:06:10.079 --> 00:06:13.160 Hey, he really you know a lot of people think, oh, 84 00:06:13.160 --> 00:06:16.360 it's basic stuff for people who have researched this a lot, but he's really 85 00:06:19.240 --> 00:06:23.759 a great spokesman for this field. He's very articulate, does a great job. 86 00:06:23.879 --> 00:06:28.199 He's a great speaker. He's fun to watch. The end of NASA's 87 00:06:28.199 --> 00:06:31.600 Shuttle program has launched a new space race led by entrepreneurs. It would appear 88 00:06:31.639 --> 00:06:36.399 that Las Vegas based Bigelow Aerospace is leading the pack. The company is working 89 00:06:36.399 --> 00:06:41.079 on a thirty six person space hotel. And while this may sound like a 90 00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:46.000 wild idea that is decades away from being a reality. The company already has 91 00:06:46.079 --> 00:06:49.839 two inflatable test modules orbiting the Earth and hopes to have the hotel operating as 92 00:06:49.839 --> 00:06:54.639 soon as twenty sixteen. If you're the kind of person who loves to plan 93 00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:58.480 your vacation well in advance, you can already book your stay at Bigelow's Space 94 00:06:58.519 --> 00:07:01.560 Hotel for the low low price of twenty five million dollars for a thirty day 95 00:07:01.560 --> 00:07:08.800 space vacation. Twenty five million gotta be saving my pennies. Maybe we could 96 00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:12.319 ship in, yeah, split it. We could probably share a room, 97 00:07:12.399 --> 00:07:15.519 right, Yeah, I don't know. With Ouffen pictures of those rooms and 98 00:07:15.560 --> 00:07:20.000 they're kind of cramped quarters. Yeah, well, you got it. You 99 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:24.639 gotta do what you gotta do. I'll wait. I think the price will 100 00:07:24.639 --> 00:07:29.439 come down. I have to find another roommate then we'll see. In UK 101 00:07:29.600 --> 00:07:33.879 news, British astronomers are constructing a major radio telescope to search for the origins 102 00:07:33.879 --> 00:07:39.120 of the universe and to find intelligent alien life forms. The first stage of 103 00:07:39.160 --> 00:07:45.800 the European Low Frequency Array or Low Far Telescope involves ninety six radio antenna being 104 00:07:45.839 --> 00:07:51.720 erected this week at the Chilboltan Observatory near andover Hampshire. Then another five thousand 105 00:07:51.759 --> 00:07:57.439 antenna will be stationed all over Europe a supercomputer based in the Netherlands. We 106 00:07:57.560 --> 00:08:01.480 use digital electronics to combine this signals from the antenna to make images of the 107 00:08:01.639 --> 00:08:05.839 entire radio sky. The low Far telescope will also be able to monitor space 108 00:08:05.879 --> 00:08:13.240 weather and potentially search for alien intelligence. Pretty impressive piece of equipment there. 109 00:08:13.800 --> 00:08:18.040 A little similar to what said he's doing, but this is big for Europe. 110 00:08:18.759 --> 00:08:22.639 It's interesting too because it's kind of like if people have seen the Heart 111 00:08:22.680 --> 00:08:26.920 program, which everybody's very afraid of, kind of this low frequency program going 112 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:30.560 out of Alaska that there's lots of rumors about what they do with it, 113 00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:35.000 but it's similar. It's an antenna that comes out of the ground and it's 114 00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:39.440 pretty simple like that, and they're going to be putting these all throughout Europe. 115 00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:43.320 So Europe is going to be like this giant harp station. Keep it 116 00:08:43.399 --> 00:08:48.759 simple. Stupid conspiracy party it's going to be going on there. This story 117 00:08:48.799 --> 00:08:54.519 is pretty cool. A Japanese space agency successfully unfurled a solar sale in space 118 00:08:54.759 --> 00:08:58.480 for the first time last week. Solar sale technology is important because it offers 119 00:08:58.519 --> 00:09:03.960 the best for deep space exploration by eliminating the need to carry fuel. I 120 00:09:03.960 --> 00:09:09.879 think it's really cool that we went from these super rocket booster space ships that 121 00:09:09.960 --> 00:09:15.480 go into space back to sales. Yeah, he's kind of neat. Back 122 00:09:15.519 --> 00:09:18.600 to the sales ships. Well, I think it's Star Trek where that was 123 00:09:18.600 --> 00:09:22.480 like one of their first ships, the sales. So I wonder about the 124 00:09:22.639 --> 00:09:30.440 Space pirates. Is that next? Probably in other news, let's see some 125 00:09:30.559 --> 00:09:35.759 more European news. In a recent interview with Kursan, I always messed this 126 00:09:35.799 --> 00:09:41.000 guy's name up, Illy yums Enough, President of the World Chess Federation, 127 00:09:41.559 --> 00:09:48.840 he commented on the attention being given to recent statements he made during a encounter 128 00:09:48.120 --> 00:09:54.240 or let's see, I'm screwing my story up. Alejandro. It's such a 129 00:09:54.279 --> 00:09:58.799 great Russian name, and I can't say it. Okay. He's a p 130 00:10:00.159 --> 00:10:03.000 in the World Chess Federation, he has been, and he's running for re 131 00:10:03.080 --> 00:10:05.879 election, and he commented recently on the attention being given to a statement he 132 00:10:05.919 --> 00:10:11.039 made about encounters he's had with extraterrestrials. He said that he doesn't understand why 133 00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:16.240 his statements are attracting so much attention now because he's talked openly about his encounters 134 00:10:16.279 --> 00:10:20.440 for years, talking about people's resistance to accept these existence of extraterrestrials. He 135 00:10:20.519 --> 00:10:24.879 went on to say that most people have never seen God but still believe in 136 00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:28.000 the existence of God. Yeah. I mean he's standing by his ground. 137 00:10:28.039 --> 00:10:33.440 I mean a president of a country out there to bet or the Buddhist state 138 00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:37.200 out there, and he's standing his ground. He's not saying yo, they 139 00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:41.559 miss represented what I had to say or anything. He's saying, Yeah, 140 00:10:41.919 --> 00:10:48.320 I hang out with aliens. You haven't it. It was slightly amusing because 141 00:10:48.360 --> 00:10:52.519 this story was in the New York Times. Yeah, but what's amusing is 142 00:10:52.759 --> 00:10:56.720 he was in the chess section of New York Times. Oh really, the 143 00:10:56.759 --> 00:10:58.600 only thing that has to do with chess is he's the president of the Chess 144 00:10:58.600 --> 00:11:03.120 Federation. But yeah, that is They had this nice article about his UFO 145 00:11:03.279 --> 00:11:09.360 encounters. Well, maybe the Chess Federation will go cosmic, you know, 146 00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:15.000 interplanetary before any other organization, just because of his foresight. They're ready for 147 00:11:15.080 --> 00:11:18.759 it. Yeah. That's it for the news. Remember to check out these 148 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:22.799 stories and more at openminds dot tv, your source for UFO related news on 149 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:26.559 your open line News correspondent Jason McClellan, and you've been briefed back to you, 150 00:11:26.639 --> 00:11:31.200 Alejandro. You know another exciting story about Mars this week. I don't 151 00:11:31.240 --> 00:11:35.320 know if you saw it just came out today. Actually was that? Of 152 00:11:35.399 --> 00:11:39.039 course? And I think everybody kind of had already thought about this, But 153 00:11:39.159 --> 00:11:43.720 at three point five billion years ago, Mars was the blue planet that it 154 00:11:43.799 --> 00:11:54.639 had ten times more water and than the oceans here in Earth. So what 155 00:11:54.799 --> 00:11:58.360 was that was that? There I go. We keep finding new stuff about 156 00:11:58.360 --> 00:12:03.080 Mars almost every I know. It's absolutely incredible. It's just a I mean, 157 00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:07.639 at any moment now where they're gonna find something, and who knows if 158 00:12:07.679 --> 00:12:13.200 it'll be as small as a microbe or some kind of Martian whale that's ten 159 00:12:13.240 --> 00:12:16.600 times the size of our whale. It seems that now that nuss, you 160 00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:22.440 know, sort of lessening. It's it's space exploration in part. There s 161 00:12:22.440 --> 00:12:24.039 needs to be a lot more stuff coming out now. All of these these 162 00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:28.240 probes that are out in space are coming back. There was one just recovered. 163 00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:31.159 If they recovered it in Australia, it's not a Japanese probe. He 164 00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:37.759 came back with samples from asteroids or something. Yeah, I can't remember the 165 00:12:37.799 --> 00:12:41.039 details on that, I can't, but it's very exciting. But it reminds 166 00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:45.159 me of something too. It reminds me of the magazine. First of all, 167 00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:48.480 our current magazine, the second issue is out in the stores right now. 168 00:12:48.639 --> 00:12:50.240 You should be able to walk into your Bonds and Noble and it should 169 00:12:50.279 --> 00:12:54.440 be very visible as well as borders and borders, So go check out the 170 00:12:54.440 --> 00:13:00.600 magazine. And I'm excited about an article you wrote for the upcoming magazine on 171 00:13:00.799 --> 00:13:05.080 space critters at these UFOs could be critters, right. That'll be the August 172 00:13:05.080 --> 00:13:09.399 issue, which is great. Includes a great photo that Jason took in Mexico 173 00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:15.919 of interesting ufo. I'm sure we'll talk about that more when it gets closer, 174 00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:20.399 exactly so. And this thing even almost looks like some sort of space 175 00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:26.679 Amiba, space Jellyfish. Yeah, space exactly so. Really exciting. And 176 00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:31.720 some great articles of course in this issue of the magazine that's all mostly centered 177 00:13:31.759 --> 00:13:37.120 around the Vatican and Vatican history, and there's a lot of great insight in 178 00:13:37.399 --> 00:13:39.279 in that article, so check it out. You can go find out at 179 00:13:39.279 --> 00:13:45.960 openminds dot tv. Stay tuned for our wonderful guest coming up after the break, 180 00:13:46.039 --> 00:14:01.759 David Walks as Bear. You're listening to open Minds Radio. Open Minds 181 00:14:01.759 --> 00:14:05.399 Production is crowd to present the twentieth Anniversary of the International UFO Congress, coming 182 00:14:05.399 --> 00:14:09.039 to its new home with the Ratisonportment, gal Reysort and Casino at Southville, 183 00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:11.360 Arizona. This is the premier annual event for UFO researchers, enthusiasts, and 184 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:15.919 the general public with an interest in mysterious phenomena. Come listen to export ethologists, 185 00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:20.320 government officials, and respected scientists presenting information relating to the UFOs, extraterrestrials, 186 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:22.360 crop circles, abductions, cover ups, and more. The largest UFO 187 00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:26.639 conference in the country, twentieth Anniversary of the International UFO Congress, takes place 188 00:14:26.679 --> 00:14:28.679 February twenty third through February twenty seventh. To the UFO Congress dot com for 189 00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:35.759 more information, including sponsorship and vendor opportunities. You're listening to open Minds Radio 190 00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:43.799 with Alejandra Rojas on KFNX News Talk Radio eleven hundred. Welcome back to open 191 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:46.799 Minds Radio. I want to remind you of one cool thing that you'll find 192 00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:50.840 at open mindstack tv, and that's some of the video stories that we've put 193 00:14:50.879 --> 00:14:54.159 up there. We've got a great one on James Fox, who was our 194 00:14:54.200 --> 00:14:58.120 guests not too long ago, and that's something our video producer Tom puts up 195 00:14:58.159 --> 00:15:03.840 in awesome job editing these things together, so you're gonna have to check that 196 00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:05.960 out. We had him in the studio, James Box and did an interview, 197 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:11.240 so it was a lot of fun. And this video interview that he 198 00:15:11.279 --> 00:15:15.080 put up is a lot of fun as well. Speaking of fun, I'm 199 00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:18.799 looking forward to having fun with our guests. David Watts is Bear and I 200 00:15:18.879 --> 00:15:22.679 believe he's on the line right now. Are you there, I'm here, 201 00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:24.799 sir, I'm here. Oh right, great, it's good to hear from 202 00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:30.879 you. Yeah, you too. So I guess let's get started with You're 203 00:15:30.919 --> 00:15:35.399 an author, you write, a columnist, and you do all of these 204 00:15:35.480 --> 00:15:39.559 various things, and on top of it all, you're also a UFO researcher. 205 00:15:41.679 --> 00:15:43.879 Yeah. Well, probably the luster of all of them would be that 206 00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:48.399 one. But I'm a novel it's a headfield. It's one of those things 207 00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:52.799 that I'm really fascinated with, though, Yeah, how did you get fascinated 208 00:15:52.840 --> 00:16:00.279 with it and become a researcher. Well, let's see, the first thing 209 00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:02.279 that I ever had, and I've only had a couple, so it's not 210 00:16:02.360 --> 00:16:04.600 like I'm like, I'm, you know, some kind of ficinado. But 211 00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:07.559 I think I was like fourteen. It went over my buddy's house, knocked 212 00:16:07.559 --> 00:16:11.679 on his door, and and you know, his brother came to the door. 213 00:16:11.720 --> 00:16:14.360 He wasn't home, but while he was coming to the door, I 214 00:16:14.360 --> 00:16:17.200 could hear him in the kitchen working his way that way. It was night, 215 00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:19.360 probably uh leven o'clock at night, and you know, we were kids 216 00:16:19.399 --> 00:16:22.000 who were runing around chasing Back in the sixties, you could do that kind 217 00:16:22.039 --> 00:16:26.279 of stuff. And so I looked up in the sky and a lot of 218 00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:29.720 stars pretty night, you know, and watched this whole tiny blue light. 219 00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:32.759 It was just bouncing around, going every which way. I mean, it 220 00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:37.960 was way way up there. That was probably back in sixty eight. I'm 221 00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:41.919 guessing sixty nine somewhere around there. Anyway, his brother has just got back 222 00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:45.399 from home from overseas, who was an air defense artillery in the army and 223 00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:49.240 stationed in Germany, and so I mean he was used to looking up in 224 00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:52.000 the sky. They did a lot of that kind of stuff, and so 225 00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:53.120 he came out. You know, the first thing I asked him, was 226 00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:56.120 you know that his day here? Your brother here? But anyway, he 227 00:16:56.159 --> 00:17:00.159 looked up in the back. Is that neither one of us knew. We 228 00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:03.000 watched it for a few minutes. So at that point in time, I 229 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:04.440 guess this a little blue light. Like I said, we was just dancing 230 00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:10.960 and bouncing all this sky and as a kid, we'd that's that's another story 231 00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:11.960 at a different time. But it was a little blue light that used run 232 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:18.200 around our bedroom up in the ceiling. But yeah, just weird enough, 233 00:17:18.279 --> 00:17:21.400 you know. But anyhow, that was part of the reason why it fascinated 234 00:17:21.440 --> 00:17:23.559 me, I guess. And then the next instance that that I ran into 235 00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:26.839 something like that was while I was an active duty in the Coast Guard. 236 00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:30.319 It was me and three other guys on a forty one foot utility boat out 237 00:17:30.319 --> 00:17:34.359 in Lake Michigan, and we'd chase these little orange balls across Lake Michigan Court 238 00:17:34.359 --> 00:17:37.519 in the walk keeper. By about four and a half hours, I guess, 239 00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:41.079 we have any cases running it with a quiet night group gave us okay, 240 00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:44.480 and so we tried to get close to them, but these things would 241 00:17:44.519 --> 00:17:48.079 bounce up and down on the water and just you know, they would meld 242 00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:52.000 into each other and bounce away. It was bizarre. So in essence, 243 00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:56.000 I guess that's why it was always those things that stayed in the back of 244 00:17:56.000 --> 00:18:00.799 my mind. And I'm not good enough to think that that we're not alone 245 00:18:00.920 --> 00:18:03.039 in my culture. Everybody knows what a starman is, you know, So 246 00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:10.519 anyway, so maybe let's talk about that, because that's one thing kind of 247 00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:14.400 like with me. You know, it's kind of a background with the Mexican 248 00:18:14.440 --> 00:18:17.920 background and Native American background, it's not as big of a deal. You 249 00:18:17.960 --> 00:18:21.559 know, it's like there's weird stuff out there in our culturally, it's not 250 00:18:21.640 --> 00:18:26.319 as big of a deal. And I mean, and that's pretty much the 251 00:18:26.359 --> 00:18:32.759 same with that Native American cultures often. Oh sure, it's a given, 252 00:18:33.079 --> 00:18:34.359 is what you're saying. And that's just the way that is. You know 253 00:18:34.759 --> 00:18:38.119 that most leaves on a tree or green. You know, some maybe yellowsome, 254 00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:41.359 maybe orange, but as a rule they're green, and you accept that. 255 00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:45.200 It's just an everyday occurrence. It's part of life. You know, 256 00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:48.880 a rattles may can bite you, you know, you accept that. So 257 00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:53.200 yeah, you bet, it's within I mean, American Indian culture is pretty 258 00:18:53.240 --> 00:18:57.720 much generic and you know, and being being Mexicans, you're gonna end up 259 00:18:57.759 --> 00:19:03.359 with with Indian blood and those cultures that mix in with the Spanish. It's 260 00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:07.319 all the same and generic speaking, I guess from one of the Indian nation 261 00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:11.559 to the next. The startment is just part and parcel of who we are, 262 00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:14.680 and we know they've always been here and a lot of interaction over the 263 00:19:15.039 --> 00:19:18.039 eons. Well, and you call it yourself kind of a novice when it 264 00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:22.839 comes to UFO research, But you spoke not too long ago at the moof 265 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:26.880 On Symposium, and I know you've investigated a few cases. I know Ken 266 00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:30.119 Ross is one of them. And also you have a book coming up on 267 00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:36.400 the Fort Dix incident. Yeah, yeah, MacGuire air Force based Fort Dix. 268 00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:38.680 Yeah, that's yeah. Ken Ross is the first novel ever written. 269 00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:44.240 And I'm not writing non fiction. I'm writing fiction, and I pretty much 270 00:19:44.279 --> 00:19:47.799 write whatever I'm interested in. I mean, the last one, I'm sure 271 00:19:47.799 --> 00:19:51.319 we may talk about that, and it's about American Indian witch, you know. 272 00:19:51.400 --> 00:19:56.440 But the very first book that I wrote was called The Murmurings and all 273 00:19:56.519 --> 00:19:59.839 docue language that is, let's say say Quah, which means the murmurings that 274 00:19:59.880 --> 00:20:03.200 the trees and they had to do with the Ken Ross incident, and that 275 00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:07.839 was where that F eighty nine disappeared well up on an air defense mission to 276 00:20:07.880 --> 00:20:12.799 intercept what it thought was a Russian bomber over Lake Superior. I'm sure you 277 00:20:12.839 --> 00:20:15.599 probably know this whole case anyway, but no, but yeah, some of 278 00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:18.880 our listeners don't, So that'd be great if you would share those details. 279 00:20:19.359 --> 00:20:22.480 Well, I'll try to nutshell as much as possible, And I think that's 280 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:25.960 what it was at this point in time. This is nineteen This is November 281 00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:30.119 twenty third, nineteen fifty three, about six o'clock at night Eastern time. 282 00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:33.640 So we were just coming on and coming into the Cold War. I mean, 283 00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:36.359 World War Two was over and we were just now beginning the Cold War. 284 00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:40.559 Intercontinental ballistics with missiles hadn't been developed yet, you know, so if 285 00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:41.759 we were going to be attacked by the Russians, you know, it was 286 00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:47.119 going to be with an aircraft. So every air force base all around the 287 00:20:47.119 --> 00:20:49.599 country, I mean I'm talking about all around the country everywhere, had a 288 00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:53.200 combination of both fighters and before you seven bombers at that time, that was 289 00:20:53.240 --> 00:20:57.799 the way they were set up, and so we fully anticipated and expected at 290 00:20:57.799 --> 00:21:00.960 that point in time from a mill of serry mindset to be attacked, so 291 00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:04.599 you're constantly on the on the watch for it. There were ground radar stations 292 00:21:04.599 --> 00:21:07.400 set up all around these bases, and by all around, i'm talking about 293 00:21:07.400 --> 00:21:11.839 maybe a three or four state area. And at this in this particular incident 294 00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:18.359 on November eighteenth, nineteen fifty three, twenty third, nineteen fifty three, 295 00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:25.519 this this aircraft came over and it was bobbing around over Lake Superior at unheard 296 00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:27.759 of speeds for that time as a bomber for the size of the of the 297 00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:30.720 book that was showing and that type of thing it was, and it was 298 00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:33.880 kicking around at six seven hundred miles an hour, and that was that was 299 00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:36.920 nuts. They knew it was something scary, and they knew it was It 300 00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:40.000 was the Russians. They just knew that. So they launched an F eighty 301 00:21:40.079 --> 00:21:42.160 nine fighter on an air defense mission. That means that he was charged with 302 00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:47.920 There's two actually two people in that aircraft, Like just like an F eighteen 303 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:49.759 or an F fourteen, you've got the pilot and the real the rear, 304 00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:56.359 the rear operator. But Felix Moncla was the was the pilot and Lieutenant Robert 305 00:21:56.359 --> 00:22:00.680 Wilson was the real officer. So they launched. They went up to intercept 306 00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:04.200 this thing, and they got within ten miles this aircraft, and this thing 307 00:22:04.279 --> 00:22:08.039 is just kind of holding study over the Q and Offensil over about forty miles 308 00:22:08.279 --> 00:22:11.519 over Lake Spirior, off the Q and Offensil, and all of a sudden 309 00:22:11.559 --> 00:22:15.839 it shot across the sky and merged with that at eighty nine. Now, 310 00:22:15.880 --> 00:22:21.880 all these radar operators from Wisconsin, Illinois, and Michigan while watching this on 311 00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:25.759 their screens, All of these I mean hundreds and hundreds of Air Force personnel 312 00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:29.480 were watching this on their screens and seen this happen everybody in the control rooms, 313 00:22:29.559 --> 00:22:33.160 not just the radar operator. So it has happened and merged like that. 314 00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:36.759 At the same time that the two blips merged, you immediately lost all 315 00:22:36.839 --> 00:22:41.279 squawk, all radio communication. That was it just and nothing. And then 316 00:22:41.319 --> 00:22:45.319 the large blip which was which had been what they called undireified aircraft at that 317 00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:48.839 time, and UA not UFO, the coined that term hadn't even coined yet 318 00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:52.799 to the point that we know it today. So it's up there for another 319 00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:56.200 forty fifty seconds or whatever, and then it shot straight south over Lake Michigan, 320 00:22:56.359 --> 00:23:00.759 very straight across the Upper Peninsula, right over Lake Michigan. This disappeared 321 00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:03.599 and they couldn't talk and went updown, left, writer or sideways. It 322 00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:08.079 just disappeared. So the search that happened immediately after that, and I've talked 323 00:23:08.119 --> 00:23:12.000 to guys who were on Air Force PT boats. The Air Force actually have 324 00:23:12.079 --> 00:23:15.640 PT boats like PT one O nine, right, there were considered rescue boats. 325 00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:19.480 Nothing was ever gone to this aircraft, nothing was ever was ever found 326 00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:22.640 of wreckage, nothing was ever found of the pilots, never heard of from 327 00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:26.640 again. Yeah, one of those incredible cases. Well, we're going to 328 00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:32.799 take a break. Thanks for sharing that story, and when we come back 329 00:23:32.799 --> 00:23:36.160 from the break, we'll talk some more about your research. But that's always 330 00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:38.799 an exciting one. The kin Ross won. We'll be right back after this. 331 00:23:38.920 --> 00:23:55.200 You're listening to Open Minds Radio. This is Open Minds Radio here again 332 00:23:55.279 --> 00:24:02.759 your host UFO paranormal researcher and journalist Alejandro Rojas. Hello, and welcome back. 333 00:24:02.960 --> 00:24:07.480 We are interviewing Dave Watch's Barons, painter, tribal elder and author, 334 00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:11.079 a speaker, a syndicated columnist, and a bit of a UFL researcher. 335 00:24:11.119 --> 00:24:15.559 We just talked about the incredible ken Ross case and I had to cut you 336 00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:18.200 off there at the end. Was there anything else you needed to add to 337 00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:22.480 that? Now? We also, I'm just going to add this now. 338 00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:25.720 When on the novel first came out and once they got the reviews and folks 339 00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:27.720 started reading it, that kind of thing, you're always going to get feedback, 340 00:24:27.759 --> 00:24:32.400 you know. So I did find out being a retired military guy, 341 00:24:32.480 --> 00:24:34.480 I expected full well, but there would have been two aircraft lawns. You 342 00:24:34.519 --> 00:24:38.160 always have a wing man when you go with The official action reports from from 343 00:24:38.160 --> 00:24:42.079 the US Air Force only indicated just that one they were a fighter wing that 344 00:24:42.160 --> 00:24:45.799 was that was actually covering over at ken Ross from the true Ax Air Force 345 00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:49.799 Base in Wisconsin, while the the the ken Ross Fighter Wing was out in 346 00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:55.960 Arizona doing gunnery practice. Anyway, I had two guys, two different people 347 00:24:56.119 --> 00:25:00.000 emailed me that said that that they were actually stationed at Truex Air Force Base, 348 00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:03.720 And there was forty five minutes after that instant happened another F eighty nine 349 00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:07.400 that crash landed there. That came in hot, meaning that you know that 350 00:25:07.720 --> 00:25:12.039 she'd been damaged somehow came in hot and landed there. There's no official record 351 00:25:12.039 --> 00:25:15.279 of that one any place, but there's something out there that tells you, 352 00:25:15.799 --> 00:25:19.119 wow, you know that kind of thing, So you think that was possibly 353 00:25:19.160 --> 00:25:22.440 the wingman? Now, Bob, I got vertible doubt about it, sir, 354 00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:26.839 I mean I almost go the way you got. Yeah, that is 355 00:25:26.920 --> 00:25:30.599 incredible piece of news. That's a. That's a it's an amazing case, 356 00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:34.200 Ken Ross, No doubt it is. There's no two ways around. It's 357 00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:37.880 fascinating to me. But there are a lot of them like that, right, 358 00:25:37.960 --> 00:25:41.359 the one, the Fort Dixon McGuire one, and those are kind of 359 00:25:41.839 --> 00:25:45.279 bases that are close to each other. There's an army and air force and 360 00:25:45.319 --> 00:25:48.640 they kind of just separated by a fence. I think that's right. Yeah, 361 00:25:48.680 --> 00:25:52.680 And they've had a couple incidents, and which one are you kind of 362 00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:56.880 focused on in this book you're working on in nineteen seventy eight is the one 363 00:25:56.920 --> 00:26:02.440 where where the alien would allegedly and we have to say allegedly here was shot 364 00:26:02.440 --> 00:26:07.599 by an army MP. So in that particular incident, what happened was that 365 00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:11.880 that the UFOs were actually winging around mostly over McGuire, the airport's base, 366 00:26:11.920 --> 00:26:14.680 and it's just like you said, just a fence line that devised the army 367 00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:18.440 Army base the fort and the Air Force base on the other side. And 368 00:26:18.519 --> 00:26:22.000 they did have some nuclear weapons, you know, and and hangars over there 369 00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:26.240 and these things were you know, flying over the top of them. So 370 00:26:26.279 --> 00:26:29.960 the Air Force has what's called security police and air Police. I don't even 371 00:26:29.960 --> 00:26:33.160 know if they had air police anymore, but security police SPS. They were 372 00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:37.480 all going nuts, sirens going off, and obviously, you know, with 373 00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:40.759 Dix being right next door, the MP's got all geared up too, so 374 00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:45.119 they were running around going crazy, and everybody's looking for this. And so 375 00:26:45.160 --> 00:26:47.359 that's basically the instant that happened there. Do you want me to go through 376 00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:48.559 that one? What I know about it? Or yeah? That would be 377 00:26:48.559 --> 00:26:52.440 great? Yeah, okay, Well, in essence, then what happened was 378 00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:59.279 that that the Air Force, the Air Force uh Security Command detailed this one 379 00:26:59.319 --> 00:27:03.880 particular airman. He was a security policeman and he had a young guy with 380 00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:07.119 him, a rookie who was like doing OJT. Military they do that to 381 00:27:07.160 --> 00:27:10.480 you all the time. So he had a rookie with him riding with him. 382 00:27:10.720 --> 00:27:12.839 They sent him up to one gate. Now SPS I mean, you 383 00:27:12.920 --> 00:27:15.839 got to understand with with the way they used to do this is one guy 384 00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:21.000 would would stand a twelve hour watch just walking around in a B fifty two. 385 00:27:21.160 --> 00:27:25.680 That aircraft was his and on the base that would be his sole responsibility. 386 00:27:25.759 --> 00:27:27.200 So they have these guys go out and guard gater. You know, 387 00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:30.240 when they got some type of an alarm going on. Is not ad normal 388 00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:33.359 at all. And so they got out to this gate and the Army MP's 389 00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:37.160 are on the other side. They're they're all driving around chasing these things. 390 00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:40.759 They were flying above them, these UFOs and when I say flying above them, 391 00:27:40.759 --> 00:27:42.759 their treetop high at this point in time for my research anyway. Wow. 392 00:27:44.319 --> 00:27:48.519 And so so this'sp gets out there and they're just basically watching this gate 393 00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:52.039 and they're both out of the car, him and his rookie and and they 394 00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:55.400 you know, they see the flashers on the other side of the fence line. 395 00:27:55.720 --> 00:27:57.960 Knowing that the MP's are over there and their squat cars with their flashers 396 00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:00.759 going, they see one stop through the tree line, they can see the 397 00:28:02.079 --> 00:28:04.720 flashers going and and next thing you know, they hear forty five round. 398 00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:07.559 These guys know what a forty five gun sounds like when at fires, so 399 00:28:08.119 --> 00:28:11.279 they hear that forty five round, you know, and then and then they're 400 00:28:11.559 --> 00:28:15.240 moving around this way and moving around that way, and they don't have any 401 00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:18.559 light out there except their spotlights on their patrol car. And then they find 402 00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:21.559 this dead body. His dead body, you know, it's the typical gray 403 00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:26.000 alien everybody always talks about. And so you know, he radios that back 404 00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:29.839 in and long story short, you know, the black suits come in and 405 00:28:29.880 --> 00:28:33.240 everybody does what they're going to do, and he ends up on gwamb. 406 00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:36.799 You know, he's gone the next morning to Guam. So it's those kinds 407 00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:38.920 of things. Nobody ever knows anything about the Army MP And when I write 408 00:28:38.920 --> 00:28:42.319 my novel, it's it's based on that picture story. So, yeah, 409 00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:47.359 this is the same incident George Filer had talked about. It is exactly the 410 00:28:47.440 --> 00:28:51.440 same one. And he talked about, yeah, being the intelligence officer and 411 00:28:51.559 --> 00:28:53.799 coming to work and finding out about it and then them telling him to brief 412 00:28:53.839 --> 00:28:57.880 his commander and he was like, you want me to tell him what? 413 00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:03.240 Yeah, just like kind of like the Bentwaters deal, you know, I 414 00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:06.160 mean, you've got incredible people. Who are I mean, who are are 415 00:29:06.279 --> 00:29:08.720 you know? Trying to relay information that nobody wants to hear. You know, 416 00:29:08.759 --> 00:29:15.319 it's it's it's that kind of a situation. Wow, yeah, it's 417 00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:18.279 those kinds of things are fascinating to me. I'm going to be at the 418 00:29:18.400 --> 00:29:23.960 Brillington Vortex conference and over Wisconsin coming up in October. And I went a 419 00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:26.400 year ago last May. I went to h to the one that was over 420 00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:30.519 in Illinois. Out of this World I think it was. But then Jesse 421 00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:36.759 Mark and I are pretty good friends. And Jesse and Marcell Junior and Devin 422 00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:41.799 randall those kind of guys. I just I'm fascinated because they're around this stuff 423 00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:44.440 so much, they know so much more. You know, it's as an 424 00:29:44.519 --> 00:29:48.039 investigator I like to stuff. But yeah, yeah, they're great guys. 425 00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:52.400 Jesse, Marcell Junior. Of course a lot of these guys are going to 426 00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:56.880 be in Roswell. They're just really nice, great guys. It's always good 427 00:29:56.920 --> 00:30:02.279 to see them again. And you know what you're talking about some of these 428 00:30:02.480 --> 00:30:07.960 cases. Uh, how did you begin to come across some of this stuff 429 00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:12.759 and and begin to investigate it? Well, it was just an interest, 430 00:30:12.839 --> 00:30:18.440 Like I said, I mean you've heard it. You probably know the song 431 00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:22.839 like Gordon lakefood. Have nothing else about the Edin Fitzgerald, right, remember 432 00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:26.839 that song and the Edmund Fitzgerald. But anyway was a was a great les 433 00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:30.519 Anker, uh freyer was a ship that was sunk mysteriously, and he sang 434 00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:33.119 this song, which is you know, anyway, it's just it's a it's 435 00:30:33.160 --> 00:30:37.720 a I would be pretty much a great las tale more or less. But 436 00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:40.920 when I was in the when I was in the coast, that had access 437 00:30:40.920 --> 00:30:44.200 to underwater photos of that thing before anybody else would ever dove on it. 438 00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:45.559 For anybody else that's ever seen it, they were, you know. And 439 00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:49.799 I've seen things on that on that that ship cuffs setting perfectly, you know, 440 00:30:51.440 --> 00:30:53.559 on on tables that obviously couldn't have been there. She would if she 441 00:30:53.599 --> 00:30:56.680 went down in such a violent storm. We were things like that. So 442 00:30:56.759 --> 00:31:00.720 stuff like that kind of piques my interest, you know. And I just 443 00:31:00.799 --> 00:31:03.000 I'm just a fat, old curious Indian anyway, So when I see something 444 00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:06.559 like that, it just kind of draws me in, you know. And 445 00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:08.880 and so UFOs are exactly the same way. It's the same way with with 446 00:31:08.960 --> 00:31:12.799 you know, with anything has to do with them, with the spiritual side 447 00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:18.480 of things, with most folks like that. Any man. I usually tell 448 00:31:18.519 --> 00:31:21.400 anybody this at last girl here, But but you know what I mean. 449 00:31:21.400 --> 00:31:23.079 If you're a Pentecostal, the older you get, the more Pentic Gospel to 450 00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:26.079 become. And if you're a Baptist, the older you get, the more 451 00:31:26.119 --> 00:31:29.119 Baptists. If you're Catholics, no matter how it is, the older you 452 00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:32.480 get, the closer you get to who you are. And Indians are spiritual 453 00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:34.039 people anyway, and so the older I get, the more Indian I become, 454 00:31:34.680 --> 00:31:37.319 and so this kind of stuff. And it's like the Whitty Coup that 455 00:31:37.400 --> 00:31:41.799 we talked about and are started to talk about and are main talking you know, 456 00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:45.599 those kinds of things. To me, I did want to talk more 457 00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:48.880 about that, the Witty Coup, because the shapes shifter you do have. 458 00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:52.960 We had Chris O'Brien on recently, and you know him and some of his 459 00:31:53.039 --> 00:31:59.759 buddies and colleagues, and they think that there's definitely a very big connection, 460 00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:07.720 even bigger than the extraterrestrial connection to these kind of legends of shape shifters in 461 00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:13.440 the Native American tales as opposed to you know, extraterrestrials with that kind of 462 00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:19.240 stuff. My research and I mean, I just fertished this novel and I 463 00:32:19.240 --> 00:32:22.880 don't know when it's going to come out. Start in the synopsis the smaller 464 00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:25.079 stuff, theys and tomorrow. So I don't know how that's all going to 465 00:32:25.160 --> 00:32:28.839 work out. But I had a blast, you know, tell them the 466 00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:30.880 story. But what was even more fastinating for him some of the research. 467 00:32:31.160 --> 00:32:35.279 But I know what the Shawnee people think of it because I'm Shawnee, and 468 00:32:35.319 --> 00:32:37.680 I know what the blacks pep think of it because my grandmother was black. 469 00:32:37.799 --> 00:32:42.680 But so but finding out what other cultures thought about it was interesting. By 470 00:32:42.720 --> 00:32:46.039 the other cultures, I mean, you know, just other Indians very much 471 00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:50.720 connected. And what I think I came up with this is just my take 472 00:32:50.799 --> 00:32:52.720 on this now, is that an awful lot of the sightings that you see, 473 00:32:53.000 --> 00:32:57.119 you know, as far as are here about you know, the moths 474 00:32:57.160 --> 00:33:01.759 man, maybe even the moth man the different things, just don'tcate all of 475 00:33:01.799 --> 00:33:05.839 these kinds of things. I would think. I think we may be looking 476 00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:09.440 at its basically what most Indians would call a wing dingle or a which you 477 00:33:09.480 --> 00:33:15.200 know, a whittickkul, you know, the ties to you know, they'll 478 00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:17.880 sometimes they're tied to being Starman. But you know, I'm not thinking that's 479 00:33:17.920 --> 00:33:22.759 the case, but this is just my opinion. Do right, Well, 480 00:33:22.839 --> 00:33:24.480 let's talk more about that. We got to go to break in just a 481 00:33:24.559 --> 00:33:29.279 minute, and we'll talk more about the way coo and we'll have you define 482 00:33:29.319 --> 00:33:32.160 that for us a little more. But I want to let everybody know at 483 00:33:32.200 --> 00:33:38.279 walks asbar dot com, that's walks dash as dashbar dot com is where you 484 00:33:38.359 --> 00:33:43.839 can come and see his books, uh and be able to see what they're 485 00:33:43.880 --> 00:33:46.559 about and also order those. So I wanted to make sure people knew about 486 00:33:46.599 --> 00:33:52.000 your website, walks dash as dashbar dot com. We'll be right back in 487 00:33:52.039 --> 00:33:57.680 a minute. We'll talk more about shafe, shifters and extraterrestrials, so stay 488 00:33:57.680 --> 00:34:15.559 tuned. You're listening to open Minds Radio. Welcome back to open Minds Radio. 489 00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:21.719 Here now former official spokesperson for the Mutual UFO Network, your host of 490 00:34:21.800 --> 00:34:28.880 Open Minds Radio, Alejandro Rojas, Hello, and welcome back. You're listening 491 00:34:28.960 --> 00:34:32.159 to Open Minds Radio. We are talking with author David watss Bear about some 492 00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:38.719 of his books, and one of them in particular called The Witty Coop, 493 00:34:39.719 --> 00:34:45.559 and it's a shape shifter which if you could kind of explain that concept to 494 00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:50.360 people who may not be familiar. Okay, well, let's see, how 495 00:34:50.400 --> 00:34:53.719 do you explain that? Okay, well, shape shifting is got to do 496 00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:58.800 with the spirit world, doesn't have so much to do with with the you 497 00:34:58.920 --> 00:35:01.639 and I share, you know, spirit world and within the spirit world, 498 00:35:01.719 --> 00:35:06.159 I mean, there are spirits around us all the time. So uh not 499 00:35:06.280 --> 00:35:09.079 all this from a traditional Indian point of view, right, So there are 500 00:35:09.079 --> 00:35:12.800 spirits around us all the time, and there are good spirits and there are 501 00:35:12.840 --> 00:35:15.039 bad spirits. Like forever up there is a down. Well for every left, 502 00:35:15.079 --> 00:35:19.679 there's a right. You have good and bad spirits. Well, shape 503 00:35:19.679 --> 00:35:24.400 shifting is just an a facet of the spirit world and the bad spirit that 504 00:35:24.400 --> 00:35:29.159 we're talking about here is that whittakup or when dingle you know, it's it's 505 00:35:29.199 --> 00:35:36.039 a witch, it's it's a combination of of both both mortal and spiritual. 506 00:35:36.119 --> 00:35:38.960 Does that make sense what I'm trying to say? So yeah to me, 507 00:35:39.079 --> 00:35:43.480 I think yeah, Well, in essence, like I said, and like 508 00:35:43.559 --> 00:35:45.880 we talked about earlier, I mean, these are just things that are that 509 00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:49.599 are given, things that that Indians take for granted, and I and I 510 00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:52.039 and having worked with them a lot of nice folks in my day. You 511 00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:57.239 teach English is the second language, and the guys that I work with most 512 00:35:57.280 --> 00:36:00.159 of the time, but pretty much the same way as I did. You 513 00:36:00.199 --> 00:36:02.960 know, so very common and very basic, you know, and and so 514 00:36:04.199 --> 00:36:06.360 it's just one of those things that you take for granted. It's like drawn 515 00:36:06.440 --> 00:36:14.119 breast. Someone in the chat was kind of asking about interdimensionality and how you 516 00:36:14.119 --> 00:36:17.159 would relate that with the spirit world. Do you do you think it's the 517 00:36:17.199 --> 00:36:22.880 same thing. Well, I don't know. You know, there's everybody who's 518 00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:25.559 ever been in military will tell you there are things that are above their pay 519 00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:28.800 grade. And for me, that's double one of them, you know. 520 00:36:28.840 --> 00:36:30.760 I mean, it's it's it's like, I don't know, you know, 521 00:36:31.000 --> 00:36:36.239 what the Creator does, how the Great Mystery does things is totally beyond my 522 00:36:36.760 --> 00:36:39.480 comprehension. I'm not I'm not even naive enough to think that I can figure 523 00:36:39.519 --> 00:36:44.280 it out. There are basic things that I know innately, and I think 524 00:36:44.360 --> 00:36:45.800 all two legates know. I don't care who you are. I don't care 525 00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:49.159 where you're from. I don't care what age you are, what color you 526 00:36:49.199 --> 00:36:52.360 are. You know what's right and what's wrong. You know what's good what's 527 00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:55.840 bad. And folks often monkey with things that are bad because they're titillating or 528 00:36:55.880 --> 00:37:00.880 because they're interesting or fasceting, and a lot ways. You know, I 529 00:37:00.920 --> 00:37:07.440 feel that way about the UFO phenomen So I guess the interdimensional thing that you're 530 00:37:07.480 --> 00:37:10.719 talking about is something that I don't know anything about and can't say how it 531 00:37:10.800 --> 00:37:15.679 works. I mean, it's it's not part of my job or part of 532 00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:21.480 my my need to know either need to know. And when in two thousand 533 00:37:21.519 --> 00:37:22.719 and three, after the murmuring came out, I was asked to be the 534 00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:29.679 keynote speakers to Move On symposium in Detroit, And so I went there and 535 00:37:29.679 --> 00:37:31.840 I was talking to these guys and you know, when I say these guys 536 00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:36.440 and all the folks out in the audience and and and you know, the 537 00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:38.280 person that has been on before me is say that, you know, they 538 00:37:38.280 --> 00:37:42.480 didn't really know about about you know, forty pounds of gravel they took off 539 00:37:42.519 --> 00:37:45.119 and that was all there was to it. After they've seen this, this 540 00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:47.280 this UFO. And when I got up there, all I could think to 541 00:37:47.320 --> 00:37:51.239 say is, you know, yeah, that's that'd be me. I wouldn't 542 00:37:51.239 --> 00:37:53.679 be sticking around trying to figure out what it is, because there are definite 543 00:37:54.159 --> 00:37:59.320 things that that is, at least for me an Indian that I know, 544 00:37:59.440 --> 00:38:02.800 and that one of them is that not all things connected with the UFO phenomena 545 00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:06.800 are going to be good for you. You know. Do you know what 546 00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:12.239 I'm trying to say about that? Yeah, very spooky and absolutely most things 547 00:38:12.239 --> 00:38:15.039 connected with shape shifting are not going to be good for you. Doesn't mean 548 00:38:15.079 --> 00:38:22.039 that A classic example that is is in this state. Let's see when I 549 00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:24.920 wrote a column back in two thousand and six, two thousand and seven, 550 00:38:25.320 --> 00:38:28.440 and it was about the Michigan dog Man. Have you have you heard of 551 00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:31.000 that before? Yeah? Okay, so I wrote a column about that. 552 00:38:31.519 --> 00:38:35.159 I wrote a weekly column and so it was just one that I sent out 553 00:38:35.320 --> 00:38:38.320 and Linda Godfrey, who writes the Weird Michigan and Weird Wisconsin books and stuff, 554 00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:40.760 she called me and wanted to know if she could put the column on 555 00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:44.400 her website and I said, sure, you know, feel free because I 556 00:38:44.440 --> 00:38:46.599 went in it from a Native American or American Indian, you know, perspective 557 00:38:46.599 --> 00:38:50.599 with the dog Man in the column. And she said, well, the 558 00:38:50.679 --> 00:38:52.559 reason she's calling is because the History Channel's going to do an episode on the 559 00:38:52.599 --> 00:38:54.719 Michigan dog Man, and she'd like to interview me, and I said, 560 00:38:54.800 --> 00:38:59.800 yeah, sure, and so she came up to do that, and we 561 00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:04.480 through this routine and I did my interview and explained all that and talked about 562 00:39:04.480 --> 00:39:07.039 shape shifting and how it works, and we were talking about the dog Man 563 00:39:07.039 --> 00:39:12.079 in particular, and I happened to think from my research anyway, and from 564 00:39:12.079 --> 00:39:14.159 the you know, from the people of the Three Fires that I've talked to 565 00:39:14.199 --> 00:39:15.800 in this state. I'm Shawnee. My people are all from down Soall, 566 00:39:16.960 --> 00:39:22.119 and I'm in Michigan. But the people that I talk to here, you 567 00:39:22.119 --> 00:39:24.719 know, other Indians, the people the Three Fires of the shipwa Ottawa and 568 00:39:24.760 --> 00:39:30.159 pottle out of me. These guys all think that that you know that they're 569 00:39:30.199 --> 00:39:34.679 not necessarily malevol you know, they're just they're not really sure what they are. 570 00:39:34.760 --> 00:39:37.360 But they're a little spooky, you know, I mean, but when 571 00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:40.440 they keep you explain what the dog Man is a little bit too, Yeah, 572 00:39:40.679 --> 00:39:45.239 dog Man, the dog Man. There are records here that I've personally 573 00:39:45.320 --> 00:39:47.239 viewed myself, well, all the way back to the French, the original 574 00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:52.400 French explorers here, and we're talking about the sixteen seventeen hundreds now and the 575 00:39:52.639 --> 00:39:55.280 British Armies even got some recollections of them. Uh. And then you get 576 00:39:55.280 --> 00:40:00.880 into the newspapers and the time from the Blumbering Area era in this where we've 577 00:40:00.880 --> 00:40:04.480 got all these these people that are seeing these things there and newspaper accounts that 578 00:40:04.559 --> 00:40:07.119 run all the way back to the to the early eighteen hundreds of the dog 579 00:40:07.239 --> 00:40:10.679 Man and the dog Man is just seeing there's a really eerie song. There's 580 00:40:10.679 --> 00:40:15.280 finally on my website if somebody wants to hear, or there's frock is worth 581 00:40:15.320 --> 00:40:20.840 it just for that. Yeah, But basically it's it's you know, it's 582 00:40:21.199 --> 00:40:24.079 legend, okay, And there's a difference between myth and legend. Myth is 583 00:40:24.079 --> 00:40:28.119 just something that is made up in legend that has some basis in fact. 584 00:40:28.400 --> 00:40:30.800 And so this is a legend. And by and by that I mean that, 585 00:40:30.880 --> 00:40:34.119 you know, if there's something to this, I don't know what exactly, 586 00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:36.639 but there are folks who are seeing it all the time and have been 587 00:40:36.639 --> 00:40:40.840 seeing it for hundreds of years. So it's a it's basically described as like 588 00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:45.480 a wolf man or whatever. I've got sorry though, yeah, I've got 589 00:40:45.480 --> 00:40:47.000 the the one of the papers that are write for it is all the great 590 00:40:47.079 --> 00:40:52.800 legs pilot. They were on my house. But a while back they ran 591 00:40:52.840 --> 00:40:57.239 a picture and there's a picture of a wolf of us. Shout here a 592 00:40:57.280 --> 00:41:00.039 fellow who's a barber Michigan. This was this wolf was got in nineteen thirty 593 00:41:00.039 --> 00:41:07.199 five up in the Upper Peninsula and Van Mauras the county. This wolf man, 594 00:41:07.239 --> 00:41:09.000 I mean, this is now I mean wolf man like the wolf Man, 595 00:41:09.039 --> 00:41:14.159 but I mean this wolf is just unbelievable. This thing was was seventh 596 00:41:14.199 --> 00:41:20.199 foot eleven inches long. This seven foot eleven inches long, way over still 597 00:41:20.280 --> 00:41:23.480 thirty nine inches that the this guy shot at during the firearms gear season, 598 00:41:23.480 --> 00:41:28.159 which in Michigan has traditionally always ran from the fifteenth November to the thirtieth of 599 00:41:28.199 --> 00:41:30.440 November. There's a picture of this thing here and there's two full grown men 600 00:41:30.800 --> 00:41:34.800 black and white picture. These guys are wearing for doors and this and this 601 00:41:34.880 --> 00:41:37.239 wolf was probably about four footovers that is hanging up and it's about four foot 602 00:41:37.280 --> 00:41:42.519 over these guys. That's just huge, two hundred pounds that had a had 603 00:41:42.559 --> 00:41:46.119 a you know, a thirty nine inch had just unreal you know, when 604 00:41:46.239 --> 00:41:51.039 was his picture taken? Picture was taken in nineteen thirty five. Wow, 605 00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:54.639 seven foot eleven inches. The thing was this massive. The part of the 606 00:41:54.760 --> 00:42:00.920 museum in Pennsylvania actually has the guy shot it. It was cased in three 607 00:42:00.960 --> 00:42:04.599 deer and this day was a deer hunting with a rifle. And he was 608 00:42:04.639 --> 00:42:07.280 a barber down and flint. But you know he had family connections in the 609 00:42:07.320 --> 00:42:09.039 ufter peninsul of the up as we call it here, and you know he 610 00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:14.239 was up here to go deer hunting with the family. And these three doughs 611 00:42:14.360 --> 00:42:16.199 came over the hill and he let those go, but he heard this big 612 00:42:16.280 --> 00:42:20.079 roar behind him, and this monster came up over the top of it. 613 00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:22.599 This is back in nineteen thirty five when most of the wolves had been killed 614 00:42:22.639 --> 00:42:28.039 in this state. I mean the timberwolf. This thing's massive. Everybody as 615 00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:30.480 big as a full grown man. I mean the mouth when you open the 616 00:42:30.519 --> 00:42:34.760 mouth, you know from the bottom of the jockice, I'm a game more 617 00:42:34.760 --> 00:42:37.880 than in Michigan. That's what I do for a looks. So we opened 618 00:42:37.880 --> 00:42:40.320 the bottom of the mouth and raised the top of the mouth up like this. 619 00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:45.400 We had an eighteen inch spread with a fourteen inch width on it. 620 00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:50.400 So you were talking about about something that's just massive. Yeah, I don't 621 00:42:50.400 --> 00:42:52.719 know where that fits in the shape shifter thing, but obviously it died. 622 00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:55.639 He shot it four times before it finally killed. It incredible. Well, 623 00:42:55.679 --> 00:42:59.800 I hate to cut you off. I mean if these shows always go so 624 00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:02.400 quick and we're already out of time. So thank you so much for being 625 00:43:02.440 --> 00:43:07.719 on the show. It was great going over these stories and we'll definitely need 626 00:43:07.719 --> 00:43:09.519 to have you on again to talk more about some of these things that we 627 00:43:09.559 --> 00:43:14.639 didn't get to, but I'd appreciate it. It was a lot of fun 628 00:43:14.679 --> 00:43:17.800 and extremely interesting. So I want to thank you. Some people in the 629 00:43:17.880 --> 00:43:21.679 chat. We're having a lot of fun. One of the people who asked 630 00:43:21.719 --> 00:43:24.920 about the interdimensionality wanted to say thank you too. They agreed with what you 631 00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:29.639 had to say back there, so that the new way. Yeah, thank 632 00:43:29.679 --> 00:43:34.440 you, thanks for being on the show. Remember walks dash as dashbar dot 633 00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:37.360 com is the website. Next week we're going to have Paul Davies. This 634 00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:42.480 is exciting. He is a producer and a director, a writer. He 635 00:43:42.559 --> 00:43:46.559 did the Roswell movie The Great Movie showing on Showtime in nineteen ninety four, 636 00:43:47.119 --> 00:43:52.400 starring tol McLachlan and Martin Sheen, so we'll be interviewing him about Roswell and 637 00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:58.039 other things to get ready for the exciting Roswell Festival. Thanks for listening to 638 00:43:58.079 --> 00:44:00.960 Open Minds Radio, your UFO new use Authorny, talk to you next week. 639 00:44:02.320 --> 00:44:09.400 I know the times leave Cansla thing if you watch your feet. The 640 00:44:09.639 --> 00:44:30.599 cracks in the plot up Alien sob like a whole movie for the folks back home