Welcome to the Great Detectives of Old Time Radio from Boise, Idaho. This
is your host, Adam Graham. If you have a comment, email it
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enjoyment. We have two different countdown posts. We continue our count of the
top twenty five best Dragnet stories. This week we countdown number fifteen to number
eleven, and we also continue to count down radio's most Essential People. This
week we profile number sixteen and number fifteen on our list. You can view
these articles at great detectives dot net. Radio's Most Essential People countdown article will
be there on Sunday. You can also subscribe all the articles we post through
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Now it's time for today's episode of the lineup, The cop Killer Ladies and
Gentlemen. We take you now behind the scenes of a pully said quarters in
a great American city. We're under the cold, glaring lights will past before
us, the innocent, the vagrant, the thief, the murderer. This
is the lineup. We can sit right here, chilly, right, all
right, it's all right. They won't be able to see you if you
identify one of them, they won't know who you are here. Do it
and just take your time and make sure we've got to have these men.
Chilly, your attention, your people out there on the side of the wire
the audience room. May I have your attention? Please? Thank you.
My name is Grab, Sargeant, not Grab. I'll explain the lineup for
you. Each of the suspect you will see will be number. I'll call
out a number, their name and charge. If you have any questions or
identifications, please remember the number of signs of the prisoner as I call his
name at the end of each line. When I asked the questions or identifications,
call out the number if you're sure. I'm not too sure. The
suspects have him held. The officers who took your name with assist you.
They're seated among you. Please be promp with your questions or identifications. When
the prisoners read near they are sent to the bathroom and drifted back into their
jail clothes. It makes it quite difficult to bring them back after they leave
here. The questions I asked these suspects are merely to get a natural phone
of voice, so do not pay too much attention to their answers, as
they often lie bing on the line. All right, all right, pull
up to the end of the stage. That's right, keep a moving given
movie. All right, I'm turning fake sprint and see your size. Look
straight ahead. Number one Alex pot breaking again, entering readyar Alex n eighteen
and name on the nine November sixteenth. You've broke into the house of our
our posts twenty two forty three soft Rockford Street. I didn't say nothing nothing.
You don't have to in this state outs just breaking in. There's enough.
Yeah, well, you know as long as they as I didn't get
time, I should have rung a door, though I did. Number two,
Peter, but justin narcotic suspect, where do you listing there? D'm
a hostel of medicine avenue. That's a pretty nice o. Jumpy then nervous.
I'm working right now, starting stand still. I'm sorry, I'm nervous.
You got a monkey on your back? No, no, Sorge.
I put the jumped on a long time ago. Do you know anyone?
Number three? Nicklas? Gott see it as order the conduct. Watch your
business, Nicklas, I worked through the STUDIOSI this is your best apastatist.
Yes, it was pretty drugs. My wife left you run off with a
guy. He wasn't the policeman, was he? No? You used some
pretty love rock language on the frome and death. I don't remember. Well,
watch your language the next time. And some of the boys are se
number oscar Cook narcotic suspect? What are you Libscar? How about that one,
Charlie? He's a frame. The pig swipt it on me when he
picked me up. This is your fair defense is going to be pretty rough.
It wasn't hard. She the coolest, A big stashed it on me.
Look who's Carver? Who are pig number five? And a shipper?
Narcotic suspect? What are you tell me? Six seas two hundred and third
Street, Where do you work? How about it? I don't know how
long have you been putting it down? Huh? What are you dreaming about?
Reached me? It's pretty crazy. Though man, Oh, hello Ben,
this is Charlie Man. Hello, Charlie. Hi, I'm sorry you
couldn't identify any of those men who were Take him out and show him the
mug file. Maybe you can find one of them there. Yeah. Sure,
I'm going after narcotics. I've been Captain Water's office. Okay, come
on, let's go, Johnny. Yeah, seven stout linking attention? Are
units? Are units in the vicinity of forty seven? You want to hunt
State Street up to eleven and the shooting, so three at ten to more
units in? No, bim oh Bill? Nice? Yeah, oh boy,
identify any of them? No, and we'll keep trying. I don't
have the boys keep calling them in. Charlie can look at every narcotics perspect
We've got a package on some we haven't. It's a rottenness, yea rotten
Are you sure this old bunk and identify the three men, Charlie says he
can. I don't know. He was flopped under the bridge as he heard
the car pull up and stop, got scared. Couldn't figure it. We'd
be stopping that late at night and they saw these guys kill Fisher. No,
no, no, no, he didn't see him killing me hurt the
shot and looked up. Saw the three men left Fisher over the railing and
drop him in the river bend. And he could recognize three men standing up
on a bridge late at night, he says, So, couple of lights
on the bridge, only twenty feet to the river bend. He says,
So, I hope he can. I went over and saw Fisher's family myself.
Yeah, I've had dinner over there. It was a great cook.
She took it pretty hard, so did his wife, Jane. Fisher was
a good cup. Boys in the precinct are taking it pretty hard too.
We'll get the guys. Fisher was going to make the contact at eight to
night. Yeah, you're supposed to meet a man named Black, Francis Black.
My department's been trying to bust this ring for a long time. Fisher
was close Black with a pusher for the step. Fisher got his confidence and
made a deal to buy ten thousand heroin. Supposed to meet Black last night
at eight o'clock in the bar, and then Black was supposed to take him
to the big boy. We had a steak out in the bar and across
the street. Fisher meant Black all right, they got into the Black's car
and drove to the river with it. At the ferry, we stick at
a car on the other side, and they switched cars in the ferry,
so we didn't catch on until Black's car didn't drive off. Had it all
set up? Mister Nolan Fisher was a company for Black, met him in
the bar and what about Black? Then his apartments take out, but he
won't show come on in them. Hello, captain, you want to go
over there now? Ben here, I guess so I've got Charlie looking at
the MUDs with Sergeant Quine. Okay, well, we'll see you later,
Bill. He thought we'd take a few minutes and go over and see the
Fisher's family. It won't make you feel good. Mom Fisher's fed the whole
apartment at one time or another. She's a fine person. I feel I'm
not worse if I didn't stop by. Well, yeah, we'll go on
bring it h okay, Hello Jean? Hello? Then hello man? All
right, come in, thanks, where's mom the kitchen? Fifteen? Young
Jeff is dinner back in schools them he's in school. He's already gone before
Bill can A'm all right, it won't be bad for fire till I get
lonesome, till I miss him. Just kind of norm now, moms in
the kitchen, A little Jeff doesn't know he was already in school. Who
we heard? My time tonight after the's dinner, after we watches television.
Mom Oh mom, Mom, hello boys, that's you Benjamin and fixing Jess
something for his dinner. Some cookies too for later. Hope your cookies he
likes some, wouldn't My two big policemen like some cookies. Well, we
can't stay long, mom, I shouldn't have to entertain you in the kitchen.
A little ruffian has got an appetite like you, Matthew. Nobody's got
an appetite like matt Mamma, it's your cooking, Mom. Yeah, I'm
a good cook. The men in my family are particular. Jess No.
Eight, and he's very particular, Jean. It's a fine cook tool.
I guess we spoil our men, don't we. Jee, I mean,
look in the ovens and see if my cookies are done? Yes? Do
look done? Mom? Oh, you have to be going, Benjamin.
Gee, you take the cookies out of the oven and I'll go with my
two big policemen to the door. Yes, Bryge, bye bye, plea
come back. So I'm sure. I'm sure Jee's a good girl, fine
girl. My son was lucky. What what should we say? Mom?
Say Benjamin, you have said it without saying it, my two big policemen.
You have said it. Bye, Mom, Matthew, Mom Benjamin,
Oh what is it? Mom? A little ruffy and little chet running this
way down the box. I'll have to hurry and get him a few cookies
so they can eat them while to watch us half along casting a. Mom.
Yes, Matthew, God bless you. Okay, Yeah, I didn't
want to call you about marm And what's the matter. I guess brought a
guy in a two eleven shooting Francis Black dead. Very fort lugs him.
I was just going to get that little bump from identification. He's down with
sergeant Quin. Yeah, let's go getting. Where do you find a body?
Forty fifteen hundred and eighth Street. Witness say, came out of a
hotel and somebody opened up across the street with rifles. Man who runs a
jewelry store. I caught a wild shot in my hip? How was mom?
Magnificent? I feel terrible. I want to get those guys boom cline.
Yeah, bring Charlie here, barn something Charlie from something. He spotted
one of them, that pom lie Sure, he says, this is one
of'em. I just take it. I'm just gonna call him. That's
one of'em, all right. That's one of the boats wh pushed that
guy off the bridge. Here's his package? You know him though, Yeah,
there's a boat. Let's b I kick thank you? May that boat
it before? Are you sure this is one of them? Yeah? I've
seen him clear him and two others. Charlie. Here's look clear, no
mistaken? No, sure, I mean a lieutenant. That's all right there,
there's one of them in. I put out a picture. We will
be in the morgue. Come on, Charlie, We've got another one for
you. Another word down in the morgue. He was mixed up in.
It might have been one of the three who pushed Fisher off the bridge.
Hi, man, lieutenant, the one you just got in George to eleven
shoot Frances black hairs right a right here, come here, Charlie. Okay,
well it back Josh sure, well no one well yes or no?
I think so? You know it's hard to tell with him run and down,
set him up? Oh y set him up? Joining sure, well,
Charlie, that's one. Not sure. Yeah, I'm sure we're routine.
I got a drag that out on Joseph Boger. Well, I if
Charlie's identifications all right, we've tagged two of them, Bill, Pretty easy
to figure why Francs Black was killed. The guys with those ripples didn't like
him getting mixed up at the cop knew we had him spotted, so they
blacked him before we could pick him up. Yeah, you said that Fisher
made his contact with Francis Black and a bar? What bar place on seventy
third Street? Angelous? Who've got a man watching it? Or what about
the guy who runs it? No record? Name's Angelo Giuseppe. We talked
with him, showed him Black's picture. I never saw him before. I
didn't remember him coming in last night. Has he seen the mug on Joseph
Boger? Not yet? You want to take it over, yeah, long
shot, But I don't want to sit around and wait. I don't blame
you. Let me know if you got anything. I don't want to miss
it. Nobody does. Everybody wants him on this one. There will be
four more amateur songwriters on hand, and one of them will sell his song
for nationwide distribution when Songs for Sale comes along this Friday night on most of
these same CBS stations, Songs for Sale gives these new writers a great chance.
Their songs are judged by a panel of experts. Their music is sung
by Rosemary Clooney and Richard Hayes. They're made to feel at home under the
guidance of the experience showman Jan Luis for an hour of fascinating fund behind the
scenes of Tin Pan Alley. Here are songs for Sale this Friday and every
Friday on CBS. Sure you, Penn, And I thought with some of
your boys dysloyal. They showed me the picture of some guy named the Vances
Black Angelum. Yeah, yeah, you were supposed to have bring in my
prace last night, supposed to have met that couples got killed, but I
never saw. But how about this guy? Or let me give my glatny
names. Joseph Forger, let's see Joseph b A Liu tennant. Yeah,
this one, this one's been in my place many time. Joseph Organ,
Well, he don't call himself a Joseph both all, I think, Alison,
And when was the last time he was in, Angelo, or two
or two days ago? I think comes in once or twice a week,
doesn't come in once twice a week for about the years, once or twice
a week. I said, well, how well you know it? Well?
Not too well. He don't say much, she said, I know
he calls himself or something. He never said where he lived. One never
said nothing. No, I heard a couple of guys that call him out
one time or another. I always said the hollow Allo when he came in.
It's a good policy. Your customer's name, make them want to come
back. Look, Angelo, you haven't seen him in two or three days?
No, but I think probably, And I'm sure he lives around here.
Why are you sure a guy don't keep stopping into a bar once or
twice a week or for a year in the evening if he don't look across
by, you know, you go out of your way to a real classic
joint. Maybe, but not from my pause, it's nice, it's a
comfortable. I can't warn my drinks about the class where I ain't got Hi
Angelo, Yeah, yeah, And this is Sergeant Grab Angelo Illo start.
Hello, Angelo, Angelo is starting now. There'll be two officers in your
place from the time you open them a morning to the close at night,
Sergeant Grab and I'll take over for the day. Tomorrow will be from the
two others. All right. If Joseph Folger comes in trying to act like
there's nothing wrong, understand, had to get out of the way, go
to the back room or something, and we'll try to take him without any
shooting. Yeah. Yeah, and we'll sit over at that table when this
beer or something. Okay, that got picked my insurance last tonight. I
think Boge will show I hope so. Man, the Captain's got a bunch
of boys out with pictures covering this area for about three miles each way.
It's a lot of walking. Yeah, yeah, thanks, I'll just forget
about us, Angel. That ain't easy. I'm gonna try to act like
it, but that I can bot. What's the time, it's three forty
spends half this time waiting five o'clock boys. Yeah, there'll be two more
tomorrow morning. Sure, good night, Angel, good night, good night.
Yeah. I hate to do that every day. Yeah, yeah,
I can't think of anything more terrible than sitting all day in half the night
watching a perfectly good beer go flood. Good morning, Good morning band.
Three days now, Billy's quite a lasher in the bar to day mess and
I go tomorrow again. I wish we'd get something. Take it easy,
Take it easy. How close can you get? Got one identify? The
other boys have showed Bogs picture of everybody in that area. Nobody knows and
nobody's seen it. Yeah, yeah, I know, two bad More of
us couldn't have been the Fisher's funeral. Sure, Mom understood. Then we've
gone in every not caught accesspect we can get our hands, and we sweated
stoolies a three day now, we've questioned every hood in the city. We've
got all the roads covered, airports, bus stations. I wish I know,
I'll see you later. I gotta go down to the line. Okay,
then, yeah, get Mat. Just got a call Bulgers in the
barn. Now, I told client, went to take him till we got
here. How do we do it? We have more of us, the
less chance of Bulgars using his gun. Matt cover the yelling. Right,
all right, let's go Bill, let me go in first. I'll get
next to one let's see ianking me about thirty seconds. Okay, Oh I'm
home. Oh I don't I don't bear please coming there you are? Thanks,
I will bear all fine. Fans, Oh my gosh, what's wrong?
I forgot to call my wife. She'll kill me. Don't move all
again? He said, don't move fine, that's let me go. I
got him? Hey, what is this ill? Where I met it?
Well? You want the other guy? What out that guy? What are
you talking about? What we're talking about? A lousy cup killer. I'm
still going to tell us where he are. No, wait, you got
ten seconds to make up your mind. Oho, I'll be better make it
out. Thompson on a shotgun? One Thompson one shotgun? Where's the Thompson?
Okay, I'll get the shotgun. I'll take it. Okay, how
watch ammunition two drums for the Thompson six rounds for a shotgun? Sign up?
Kuh, what's the number? One me? Thompson six seven six one
two six seven six one two one times shotgun six four five one two eight
four five one two eight Yeah. Food drums for the Thompson six rounds for
the shotgun. Okay, I sure have been hopping the last half hour.
Everybody's been down here. We've got our lead on the third guy who killed
Fisher. Yeah, I heard some guy named a Shaw. Yeah, this
is one time I don't mind being busy. We've got the area closed off.
Two men at the alley entrance, cars at the end of the box,
three cars on the street. Here. We're sure. We's talk with
the hotel. Clerk says Shaw hasn't come in yet. Usually comes in between
seven or eight. Fine, sitting in a loud Do we wait in his
room? Cape at least seven? Now Shaw's rooms two away, Clerk,
give us the key to to await. Yes, there you are crying.
We're going after the room. Shaw comes in and just get behind him,
follow him up the elevator. Two. Yeah, office called Bolser signed a
full confession. Bolder and Black were pushing the stuff for shure to fifteen two
fortune and done this way. Sean Boger met Black and Fisher. I'm a
fairy. Shaw recognized Fisher as a cap to the bridge, killed him.
Yeah, oh yeah, away, Bolger still says, Sean pulled a twigger.
Yeah, hey, come on, let's go take your says man.
Chop came in and Chop that office, quin Quin. He saw me starting
up, started shooting. Got him the bushman, yeah right over there.
Get an ambulances to warn them, and go and tell him and get an
ambulace. Come on, math Ry, you clerk, stay with math head
down to hire man. What's right now? I've got around that playe right.
Must have gone through that door. No no nor no service. Helenna.
He's going up, yeah the roof, Come on, let's go.
He can't get off. He's ten stories up. Two boys coming up the
fire or skating. He's probably waiting for us to come through the store and
us below go through one at the time. And what about that Thompson that
will throw slugs all over the city. I won't use it unless I have
to look at the open. I'll go first, Okay, Man, I
got him sinn down. Let's go. Bill, he's behind the verbits.
Do that big listening you will it split off? We got sure? Get
what up? Oh, Roger, he's coming on, Jolaine, I'm at
say we are going all right, I'm going around this week. He's telling
that he's circling like it. Ben Ben, hey boy, h get him
Ben. Let's get him off the roof. Get out of this quin.
I should have worn a heavier coat. Yeah, yeah, guy could catch
you a bad cool up here the line up or before you passed the innocent,
the vagrant, the thief, the murderer. Listen again next week when
we again bring you the line up. Hey, I have your attention.
Please you people out there on the other side of the wire in the audience
room, may I have your attention to please thank you. My name is
Grap, so I'll just not scrap. I'll explain the miner to you that
suspects you. She will be numbing. I'll call up my number, their
name and John you had any questions or identification, les, numbers and number
of sign at the end of well. Line up, starring William Johnstone Is,
Lieutenant Ben Guthrie and Rollie Mayer Sergeant Matt Grabb, was written by Blake
Edwards with music by Eddie Dunstead. Featured in tonight's cast were Junius Matthews,
Stacy Harris, Larry Dodkin, Janeavello, Luke Cookman, Jack Moyles, Ida
Reese, Marin At Begley, and Virginia greg A. Line up is produced
and directed by Himie Delaye. Every Friday Night Broadways Might Be brings you the
latest adventure of Danny cloverg, a handsome, young playing clothesman who patrols the
Great Flight Way. Wealthy playboys and panhandlers, appleannis and chorus girls, flashy
big shots and shoeshine boys. They're Danny's friends, and when a crime is
committed, they're inside stories. Help Danny l finds a fee for killer.
Friday Night also brings you the CBS famous anti crime series Up four Pole for
hard hitting, factual stories of men and women behind bars who seek another chance
at freedom. You're a shorter one dry. Both Broadways, My Beat and
UP four Bowl they've heard every Friday on most of these same CBS stations.
This is CBS. The stars address the Columbia Broadcasting System Welcome back. Well.
This is a good episode for kind of the contrast between Dragnet and the
lineup. Whenever there was a killing of a police officer, Dragnet and Jack
Webb always took pains to make it clear that this was not just a case
of the police being upset because one of their own had been killed, rather
a criminal that was ready and willing to kill an armed police officer. What
might they do to actual civilians? No effort at that is made in this
episode seems a much more totally passion driven effort the desire to get the cop
killer. Now, certainly both elements are present, I think in real life
and Dragnet did often include the emotional element, but here that seems to be
the main driver in the drama. So that's one of the big differences.
All right, Listener comments and feedback to begin with a comment on Facebook from
Rosaleen, who said, thank you Adam for wonderful insight in the history of
police procedures. I regularly listen to Dragnet and the Great Detectives. I have
a professional interest in recognition, memory and find the lineup is an interesting perspective
on identification procedures. Before we knew about the many problems associated with eyewitness testimony.
Face recognition is imperfect, and it's easy to make mistakes with seen and
recognizing even when someone is viewed briefly under stressful conditions. Memory is also easily
influenced by the white questions are asked at the time memory is being tested.
Humans are often inclined to agree with people they respect and consider to be authorities.
It is now widely acknowledged that identification should not be undertaken by presenting witnesses
with a single suspect or a distinctive individual in a lineup and asking did he
do it? To the best of my knowledge, identification now involves showing the
witness a lineup of people who resemble the suspect in terms of ethnicity, age,
and asking do you recognize anyone? The case in episode eight sixty the
candy store robbery represents a clear example of how an innocent person could be placed
in an impossible situation as a consequence of a member of the public wanting to
be helpful. Fortunately, the more experience and psychologically sophisticated policeman was not satisfied
with the evidence from one compliant witness. One wonders how many mistakes had less
fortunate outcomes. Certainly something to remember, and that, by the way,
it's the point of another one of our shows, A life in your hands,
and I think you know and most of the audiences has enjoyed a life
in your hands immensely. It has an important message about accurately remembering what you
saw, and just as how cag will tell witnesses just say what you saw,
not what you think you saw. An episode eight sixty, things got
into trouble because he saw the car and he associated the car with the person
he'd always seen owning it. So I think it's some fascinating programs here,
some even ahead of their times. Thanks so much for the comment. Then
we have this from podcast Tally from Joan. Hi Adam, I must say,
I'm beginning to enjoy the new series, especially the supermarket murders. It
reminds me a little of Dragon That's way of doing things, and I find
this series very interesting. Thanks you for sharing the show with us. As
always, keep up the great work. Cheers from Joan in Southern Ontario,
Canada. All right, well that will do it for today. Join us
back here on Monday, when we'll bring you the adventures of Frank Race.
In the meantime, send your comments to Box thirteen at Great Detectives dot net,
follow us on Twitter, Radio Detectives, and become one of our friends
on Facebook, Facebook, dot com. Slash Radio Detectives from Boise, Idaho.
This is your host, Adam Graham. Sign it off.