WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.919 --> 00:00:08.839 You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting 2 00:00:08.880 --> 00:00:14.839 podcasts, just go to ifahpodcastnetwork dot com. Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, 3 00:00:14.960 --> 00:00:18.879 Episode number three fifty five. The most honest form of filmmaking is to 4 00:00:18.960 --> 00:00:24.879 make a film for yourself. Peter Jackson broadcasting from a dark, windowless room 5 00:00:24.920 --> 00:00:28.519 in Hollywood when we really should be working on that next draft. It's the 6 00:00:28.640 --> 00:00:34.079 Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and business of screenwriting while teaching you 7 00:00:34.119 --> 00:00:38.719 how to make your screenplay bulletproof. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. 8 00:00:40.200 --> 00:00:43.719 Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. I am your 9 00:00:43.759 --> 00:00:50.280 humble host Alex Ferrari. Now, today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof Script Coverage. 10 00:00:50.520 --> 00:00:56.000 Now. Unlike other script coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses on 11 00:00:56.280 --> 00:00:59.880 the kind of project you are and the goals of the project you are, 12 00:01:00.240 --> 00:01:03.159 so we actually break it down by three categories micro budget, indie film, 13 00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:07.920 market and studio film. There's no reason to get coverage from a reader that's 14 00:01:07.959 --> 00:01:11.519 used to reading tempole movies when your movie is going to be done for one 15 00:01:11.599 --> 00:01:15.599 hundred thousand dollars and we wanted to focus on that. At Bulletproof script coverage, 16 00:01:15.840 --> 00:01:19.079 our readers have worked with Marvel Studios, CIA, wme E, NBC, 17 00:01:19.319 --> 00:01:23.159 HBO, Disney, Scott Free, Warner Brothers, The Blacklist, and 18 00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:29.079 many many more. So if you need your screenplay or TV script covered by 19 00:01:29.200 --> 00:01:34.760 professional readers, head on over to covermiscreenplay dot com. Well, guys, 20 00:01:34.799 --> 00:01:42.640 before we get started, you might have missed yesterday's amazing seminar with film financing 21 00:01:42.680 --> 00:01:48.239 expert Franco Sama, but don't worry. You have a chance for an infinite 22 00:01:48.280 --> 00:01:53.680 replay of it in the ifhpro community. All you gotta do is head over 23 00:01:53.719 --> 00:01:57.239 to indiefilm, Hustle dot com, forward slash pro and there you'll be able 24 00:01:57.239 --> 00:02:01.599 to check out that, join the tribe there, ask questions, and so 25 00:02:01.879 --> 00:02:06.640 much other stuff that we have going on there, so definitely check it out 26 00:02:06.920 --> 00:02:10.240 now. Today on the show, we have entrepreneur, producer, writer and 27 00:02:10.400 --> 00:02:16.919 director Michael D. Ratner, and Michael's a really interesting filmmaker and creative. 28 00:02:17.240 --> 00:02:23.360 He started his production company OBB Pictures back in twenty sixteen and has been directing 29 00:02:23.759 --> 00:02:30.159 television, digital podcast, branded content, social movies, music videos, everything 30 00:02:30.439 --> 00:02:36.199 and has a mass over one point six billion views for all of his content. 31 00:02:36.520 --> 00:02:40.120 He's worked with companies like Netflix and YouTube, and has worked with some 32 00:02:40.240 --> 00:02:46.680 of the biggest stars in the world like Kevin Hart, Demi Lovado, Elton 33 00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:50.840 John, and Justin Bieber, just to name a few. And Michael and 34 00:02:50.879 --> 00:02:53.000 I had a really great conversation about how he's been able to build up his 35 00:02:53.039 --> 00:02:57.919 production company, what he's been able to do, how he does it, 36 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:00.639 and so much more so, without any further ado, please enjoy my conversation 37 00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:06.639 with Michael D. Ratner. I'd like to welcome to the show, Michael 38 00:03:06.680 --> 00:03:08.560 D. Rattner. How you doing, Michael, Oh are you? I'm 39 00:03:08.560 --> 00:03:12.680 good man, I'm good. How's how's life treating you? In this weird, 40 00:03:12.680 --> 00:03:16.879 wacky world we live in? Making it through weird and wacky. We're 41 00:03:16.919 --> 00:03:22.000 weird and wackies say oh God, and you're doing productions left and right, 42 00:03:22.039 --> 00:03:25.879 and I'm assuming you never know what's going to happen, the film gets positive 43 00:03:25.960 --> 00:03:29.280 or not. It's just such a weird world man, we're living in. 44 00:03:29.960 --> 00:03:35.120 Yeah, I don't remember shooting prior to this, you know. I gotta 45 00:03:35.120 --> 00:03:38.000 say, though it's been it's been great. We have managed to stay shooting 46 00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:44.639 the entire time. That's amazing. We pivoted early. We we do this 47 00:03:44.680 --> 00:03:47.400 show a Kevin Hart called Cold as Balls and that was the first virtual shoot 48 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:52.039 we did, like the second week into COVID in twenty twenty, and then 49 00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:55.479 we went right into Dancing with the Devil and we've been NonStop. But testing 50 00:03:55.560 --> 00:03:59.360 is now like in the DNA of what you do in a day for a 51 00:03:59.400 --> 00:04:02.039 film shoots, so's well and masks everywhere. Like before, you know, 52 00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:06.400 Michael Jackson looked like a weirdo, but now not so much. No, 53 00:04:06.560 --> 00:04:11.639 it's it's it's that that is not something. It's a it's an accessory that's 54 00:04:11.719 --> 00:04:14.719 totally It's like a watch. It's I mean, is there going to be 55 00:04:14.759 --> 00:04:15.600 a time we're not going to wear it? Like I can't even I can't 56 00:04:15.600 --> 00:04:17.759 even walk out the door now without wearing one. It just freaks me out 57 00:04:17.800 --> 00:04:23.160 if I don't have one on, it's crazy. So let's so, how 58 00:04:23.160 --> 00:04:28.160 did you get started in this insane business that we call the film industry? 59 00:04:28.360 --> 00:04:33.600 So I did question, you know, and and sort of one of those 60 00:04:33.920 --> 00:04:36.800 answers that I feel like when other people said, I roll my eyes. 61 00:04:36.839 --> 00:04:41.160 But it's the truth. I don't remember a time when I didn't want to 62 00:04:41.199 --> 00:04:46.720 do this, you know. I remember being super young and my father had 63 00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:49.920 actually I keep it here. I can turn the camera and show you. 64 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:54.920 Yeah, it's in my stack and stuff. I have a VHS camera that 65 00:04:55.040 --> 00:04:59.800 was my father's and I taught myself how to use it, and you know, 66 00:04:59.839 --> 00:05:02.000 I would run around the house and I would shoot everything. And I 67 00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:04.560 remember my mom would be like in a robe in the morning. She'd be 68 00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:06.120 like, why are you shooting me? You know, and I just would 69 00:05:06.160 --> 00:05:10.079 like run around like a mad man. And I would I like, I 70 00:05:10.199 --> 00:05:12.759 liked you know, my brother, and I like the w w EE at 71 00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:16.800 the time and matches, and you know, I would molment and create storylines 72 00:05:16.879 --> 00:05:21.079 and and then I taught myself how to edit, and I you know, 73 00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:26.480 it was it was really interesting and and it was a time when you could 74 00:05:26.519 --> 00:05:30.720 teach yourself how to do things. And you know, when I went to 75 00:05:30.279 --> 00:05:33.920 high school, I remember teachers, uh, you know, the one specific 76 00:05:33.920 --> 00:05:38.079 one I remember it was Catcher in the Rye and we're supposed to do a 77 00:05:38.759 --> 00:05:42.959 essay on it. And I asked the teacher her name was, uh, 78 00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:46.879 I think it was missus. It was it was missus Clapper. She uh 79 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:51.759 she she. I said, you know, I'd like to make a film 80 00:05:53.360 --> 00:05:56.040 about this rather than a paper and she said, you just want to mess 81 00:05:56.079 --> 00:05:59.360 around with your friends and shoot something and I said no. I said, 82 00:05:59.360 --> 00:06:03.079 actually, I think I can do something that speaks even more powerfully than an 83 00:06:03.160 --> 00:06:08.480 essay. And she said no. And I said, well, what if 84 00:06:08.519 --> 00:06:11.800 I do that, plus I write the essay, will you show it in 85 00:06:11.879 --> 00:06:14.720 class? And she said yes to that because it was even more work. 86 00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:17.160 And I remember the feeling I had when people watched that and it worked. 87 00:06:17.959 --> 00:06:21.240 I knew what I wanted to do with my life. Yeah. I had 88 00:06:21.279 --> 00:06:25.399 a similar experience with A. I had a high a camera now my grandpa 89 00:06:25.439 --> 00:06:27.399 gave me and I used to run around. I used to and I did 90 00:06:27.439 --> 00:06:30.480 the same thing. A teacher business law teachers like, hey, can I 91 00:06:30.519 --> 00:06:34.199 shoot a you know this this promo and she was like sure. And the 92 00:06:34.240 --> 00:06:39.040 whole climate it was standing room only because it was I was in the nineties, 93 00:06:39.199 --> 00:06:43.920 like early nineties, so it was still someone shooting something. Was like, 94 00:06:44.639 --> 00:06:47.959 what now, it's like everybody shoots, But yeah, I think it 95 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:51.720 wasn't. I don't remember other kids running around doing it like in high school 96 00:06:51.720 --> 00:06:55.720 at least, and you know, I was in I was in Hebrew School 97 00:06:55.800 --> 00:06:58.560 shooting stuff and I would have my friends come over and i'd you know, 98 00:06:58.759 --> 00:07:01.920 we'd bude them in costumes and stuff. And I just loved it. I 99 00:07:01.959 --> 00:07:05.319 love that feeling when I knew I had something that was going to make people 100 00:07:05.360 --> 00:07:09.480 laugh. And I was waiting and in the you know, auditorium or in 101 00:07:09.519 --> 00:07:14.720 the classroom, and it was such a high and it was entertaining people and 102 00:07:14.759 --> 00:07:19.680 having something to say and getting your personality out there, and I just thought, 103 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:23.439 I guess back then, I didn't really realize like, oh, I 104 00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:26.040 want to make it a business and I want to make money doing it. 105 00:07:26.040 --> 00:07:28.680 It was more so just I loved it. And then you know, you 106 00:07:28.720 --> 00:07:32.879 start to learn about life and realize that you can really really make this work, 107 00:07:32.920 --> 00:07:36.519 and you start getting inspired by people. And next thing you know, 108 00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:41.600 here you are now is was there a film that kind of lit the fire? 109 00:07:42.120 --> 00:07:44.920 Was there like that one You're like, oh my god, I have 110 00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:54.040 to do this. You know. My answer is the answer is I remember 111 00:07:54.199 --> 00:08:00.360 seeing early Adam Sandler movies. I remember seeing How To Filmore. Yeah, 112 00:08:00.480 --> 00:08:05.720 I remember seeing those movies and being like, wow, like this is so 113 00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:11.319 fucking cool. Can curse an occasional F bomb is fine, they'll be that'll 114 00:08:11.360 --> 00:08:15.040 be the only one. But that's how I felt at the time, right, 115 00:08:15.079 --> 00:08:18.040 And I was like, this is amazing. And I wasn't so deep 116 00:08:18.079 --> 00:08:20.720 that I knew whether I wanted to be a producer, director, writer, 117 00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:24.399 actor, comedian. Like it was just this is magic. This makes me. 118 00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:28.120 This is so cool. And then I remember the first one that really, 119 00:08:28.399 --> 00:08:31.480 this is an interesting one to note because I was a bit older at 120 00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:33.480 this point, but I remember the one that actually spoke to me a bit 121 00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:37.639 because it was this coming of age story and I thought at such heart was 122 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:41.840 super bad. I remember seeing super Bad, Yeah, and I remember going, 123 00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:45.799 man, like, this is such. This is I know high school 124 00:08:45.879 --> 00:08:48.720 like this, and I know these stories. So those are a couple of 125 00:08:48.799 --> 00:08:54.320 films that I remember seeing. And there's some other Judd Apatow films and stuff, 126 00:08:54.360 --> 00:08:56.879 but yeah, those are those are sort of when I was like, 127 00:08:56.960 --> 00:09:01.360 man, this is this is so credible. You can make people laugh and 128 00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:05.960 you could tell stories that of heart and are relatable, and I do I 129 00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:09.440 remember, I remember those moments. Was your first directing gigs in music videos, 130 00:09:11.879 --> 00:09:16.080 so my first directing like, I mean, I can tell you the 131 00:09:16.120 --> 00:09:20.480 countless things that I directed that were just horrible and that nobody's ever seen, 132 00:09:20.600 --> 00:09:24.879 because there's there's thousands, right, and I would like and for so long 133 00:09:24.919 --> 00:09:26.840 I was ashamed of just how bad they were. I didn't know what I 134 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:33.960 was doing. But the first thing I directed that I felt was solid was 135 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:39.120 in films. I went to UPenn undergrad and I majored in film in English, 136 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:41.799 but I really was just learning about cinema and cinema studies. You weren't 137 00:09:41.879 --> 00:09:46.039 learning how to be a filmmaker per se. Then I went to NYU Grad 138 00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:48.960 Film School, and that's where I really learned how to be a filmmaker. 139 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:52.000 And I think that program is so phenomenal. And I made a film there 140 00:09:52.279 --> 00:09:56.840 called The Thirty year Old Briss, which was about an interfaith couple and it 141 00:09:56.840 --> 00:10:07.120 takes the night before We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor and 142 00:10:07.240 --> 00:10:13.240 now back to the show. The guy get circumcised. And that film got 143 00:10:13.240 --> 00:10:15.759 into Trebeca. It was, you know, I think, a ten twelve 144 00:10:15.840 --> 00:10:20.679 minute short film, and that was the first thing I directed that started getting 145 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:24.279 a little buzz. And you know, then I got into some music videos 146 00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:26.679 and stuff from there, But it was really that film and Tish that was 147 00:10:26.679 --> 00:10:28.320 the first one that I was like, oh, I think this is you 148 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:33.480 know, this is working a bit now. You know, I've been directing 149 00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:37.080 for twenty odd years as well, and there's always that day when you're on 150 00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:41.080 set that you feel like the entire world is going to come crashing down around 151 00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:45.039 you. You're losing the sun, the camera broke, card isn't working. 152 00:10:45.080 --> 00:10:50.120 Someone deleted the last thirty three hours you shot. You know, something happens. 153 00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:54.360 Is there something that sticks out on in your mind that happened on a 154 00:10:54.440 --> 00:10:56.120 day or on a project, and how did you overcome it? As a 155 00:10:56.159 --> 00:11:01.159 director? Wow, it's like take your pick, right, it's a daily 156 00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:07.159 basis, right, Yeah, I've had everything that you just said, because 157 00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:09.840 I mean I started off as a scrappy filmmaker, like I remember, you 158 00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:15.759 know, you become you don't take anything for granted, you know, I 159 00:11:15.799 --> 00:11:20.519 started obb and I have this company now where every role is fulfilled and I 160 00:11:20.600 --> 00:11:22.840 show up and I'm the director and I'm able to just like do my thing 161 00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:31.799 and leave. But there is a certain you don't soon forget the roles of 162 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:35.480 everybody on your on your set, if you really did them all. And 163 00:11:35.639 --> 00:11:41.200 I'm so grateful for those brutal times that I try to, you know, 164 00:11:41.679 --> 00:11:46.320 really be the best location sound person that I could be, and the times 165 00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:50.919 that I did hold the boom because you know, I am you can't see 166 00:11:50.919 --> 00:11:54.320 my full body and physique here. I'm not exactly cut out for that, 167 00:11:54.519 --> 00:12:01.519 and that's brutal. Job's brutal, brutal and under standing why you need to 168 00:12:01.519 --> 00:12:05.320 get room tone and understanding that somebody, if your call time is at six 169 00:12:05.399 --> 00:12:09.679 am, needs to go get the truck to get the lights and that's at 170 00:12:09.720 --> 00:12:13.919 three am, and you know you do all of that, and you know 171 00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:18.960 you have to you I remember peaing in Johnstown, Pennsylvania, you know, 172 00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:22.120 before I went to film school, and I was in charge of going and 173 00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:28.759 driving this like broken down van from Pittsburgh to Johnstown, and I thought I 174 00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:31.480 was going to like die because the wheels were going to fall off, and 175 00:12:31.679 --> 00:12:37.440 and those those experiences really make you a much much better leader and director. 176 00:12:37.919 --> 00:12:41.600 And I'm very grateful that I had those experiences, while in the moment, 177 00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:45.600 you don't see it that way. So yeah, there's countless examples of not 178 00:12:45.799 --> 00:12:48.960 really knowing that you should be backing up your drives and it's like a whole 179 00:12:48.039 --> 00:12:50.720 day's work. It's knocked out and that's like, you know, twist the 180 00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:56.799 knife. So I've had all of that, but you make it work and 181 00:12:56.879 --> 00:13:00.840 you keep going, and you know, nothing's ever wor it was supposed to 182 00:13:00.879 --> 00:13:03.320 be. Nothing's ever what was scripted, nothing's ever what you had in your 183 00:13:03.320 --> 00:13:09.440 head, but it ends up being something special. So there's there's so many 184 00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:11.720 different examples. I mean at Johnstown when I haven't talked about that in probably 185 00:13:11.720 --> 00:13:15.840 ten years. That was That was crazy because I was the PA. I 186 00:13:15.919 --> 00:13:18.240 was so excited to shadow the director. I thought I was going to be 187 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:20.559 able to do that. And they're like, hey, there's a van four 188 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:22.720 hours away. You need to go get it and then come back. You 189 00:13:22.759 --> 00:13:26.320 know, that was the whole day and I really I remember it broke down 190 00:13:26.440 --> 00:13:28.960 and you know, I was like, I'm going to get fired from this 191 00:13:28.519 --> 00:13:31.759 first pilot ever because I'm not going to get this van here. And you 192 00:13:31.799 --> 00:13:35.679 know, it all works out. Oh dude. I was. I was 193 00:13:35.879 --> 00:13:41.080 interning at a show for Fox at Universal Studios and the producers like, hey, 194 00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:43.360 the producer wants to talk to you. I'm like, oh, shoot, 195 00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:45.480 like the showrunner wants to talk to me, and I go into his 196 00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:46.720 office, like, I like, what you've been doing here? Kid? 197 00:13:48.279 --> 00:13:50.159 I have a special project for you. I'm like, well, what is 198 00:13:50.200 --> 00:13:58.039 it? He's like, I needed to help me move you. That gives 199 00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:01.559 you a lot of time to then go and and find your moment to make 200 00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:09.360 an impression exactly exactly what I pay so much attention to that who's who's who 201 00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:13.200 looks like they're just there to help and be a positive influence and voice. 202 00:14:13.799 --> 00:14:18.279 And you know that that doesn't go unnoticed if you pick the pocket and you 203 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:24.759 play those situations right. And I think that again, all the all of 204 00:14:24.799 --> 00:14:30.399 those experiences and doing all these different roles and before you you know, you 205 00:14:30.440 --> 00:14:31.840 will be in charge and you will be making those choices. And if you 206 00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:35.320 really know what you're talking about versus if you don't, it becomes really clear. 207 00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:37.360 And people want to work for people that they feel like have done it 208 00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:41.559 before, right, No, No, quite? Yeah, man, A 209 00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:46.440 season A season crew can smell can smell it five minutes in if the directors 210 00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:52.159 knows what they're doing or not like and they will roll you over depending on 211 00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:54.519 where you are in the in the world. La crew, New York Crew, 212 00:14:54.720 --> 00:15:00.279 they even Atlanta crew. They're gonna, oh season guys and guys will 213 00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:03.919 they'll run over you because they just don't have the patience for it. I've 214 00:15:03.960 --> 00:15:07.759 had the pleasure of talking to a lot of you know, really amazing guests 215 00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:11.720 on my show, and one thing I've always wondered. I always ask, 216 00:15:11.799 --> 00:15:16.559 is about this thing that I can't believe some of these Oscar winners and Emmy 217 00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:22.039 winners and the imposter syndrome. And it's a thing that you know, I 218 00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:24.879 feel it, I mean, but writers feel it everything. I was wondering 219 00:15:24.919 --> 00:15:26.360 if you've ever had to deal with that on your own, meaning like, 220 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:30.360 see, sometimes I've talked talked to some guys who, you know, literally 221 00:15:30.399 --> 00:15:33.399 want oscars and like do you have any yet? Sometimes I'm my last movie 222 00:15:33.399 --> 00:15:35.919 that was one hundred million dollars, I felt like any moment now Security was 223 00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:39.039 going to come in and go, this guy doesn't know what he's doing, 224 00:15:39.080 --> 00:15:41.399 Come on, get him out of here. Is it just an artist thing 225 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:43.480 or do you do you? Do you ever feel that? I mean, 226 00:15:43.519 --> 00:15:48.159 like an a normal artist would, And how do you deal with it if 227 00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:56.720 you do feel it? I try to spend that positively I try to the 228 00:15:56.799 --> 00:16:02.720 answer is of course, because like another word for that is insecurity, right, 229 00:16:02.799 --> 00:16:08.200 sure, right, And I try to think to myself in those moments, 230 00:16:08.759 --> 00:16:14.039 you know, hard work pays off and you know nobody knows what they're 231 00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:17.679 doing, but we're going to figure it out. And also just first, 232 00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:21.440 I'm so happy I didn't have like early, early, early success, amen. 233 00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:26.759 And the reason for that is it's always with you and it's not like 234 00:16:26.799 --> 00:16:30.600 it took me forever. I feel very lucky that I'm that I am where 235 00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:33.960 I am right now at my age, and it's not lost on me. 236 00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:37.240 But it didn't happen right away from me at all. And you get told 237 00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:41.639 no so frequently it's almost like you just you need to be tough, luon 238 00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:45.519 because every day you have an idea of people like oh yeah cool, like 239 00:16:45.639 --> 00:16:48.559 call me back in a couple of weeks, or like no, just no, 240 00:16:48.919 --> 00:16:52.279 right, and then it's all of a sudden, yeah that sucks. 241 00:16:52.360 --> 00:16:56.799 That's for you. Was that a joke exactly? And you get deflated and 242 00:16:56.799 --> 00:17:00.320 then you get back up. And I think the people are making this business 243 00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:07.000 are like wildly resilient, right, And I think that you you basically go 244 00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:12.519 and get to a point where you remember those no's and people start all of 245 00:17:12.519 --> 00:17:15.519 a sudden saying yes, and then eventually you're actually gonna have to turn stuff 246 00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:18.400 down, which is such a foreign concept when you when you're starting your career, 247 00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:22.720 and I think, in those moments of frustration or you're not sure if 248 00:17:22.759 --> 00:17:26.519 you're if you belong and whatnot, I try to just think back to, 249 00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:30.359 well, I must be doing something right. I'm here right, and those 250 00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:36.599 nose turned into yes is and I try my best not to get riddled with 251 00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:40.519 anxiety and frustration. I say try it because I fail at this sometimes, 252 00:17:40.599 --> 00:17:45.160 right, And I try to just think, you dreamed of this, so 253 00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:48.319 let's just figure it out, just go for it and not go and cave 254 00:17:48.759 --> 00:17:52.720 or fulld you know. I got to say one of the I mentioned before 255 00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:55.839 that Kevin Hart show that we do. It's about to enter season six. 256 00:17:56.880 --> 00:18:00.920 Kevin and I actually had a conversation very early on we started working together, 257 00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:03.720 and I asked him, I said, shouldn't you be on a beach, 258 00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:07.720 like just sipping like a my tie, like what are we doing here? 259 00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:11.839 Because he just like this guy works harder than anybody's the consummant pro and he 260 00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:15.039 did. He said to me, he said, I remember all those nos. 261 00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:18.279 He said, I'm still catching it. Do you think I'd say yes 262 00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:19.759 to a lot? I'm catching up for all the nose because he didn't make 263 00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:25.839 it right away, Oh took him in and I related to it so much, 264 00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:27.200 so I don't know. I try to think more about that. You 265 00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:30.440 know. It doesn't exactly answer your question, but in those moments of like, 266 00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:34.160 you know, do I belong or am I like here? Like how 267 00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:37.880 did this? I just try to go like, yes we are, and 268 00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:41.240 like we're going to figure it out and we don't know everything because nobody does, 269 00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:45.319 and let's just let's grind. You know. One funny story that really 270 00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:49.440 answers your question is I was once I really liked this film and thought I 271 00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:55.000 could make a difference in a later stage. You know. I didn't know 272 00:18:55.039 --> 00:18:57.480 that you could come into a film that's already in the can and edit and 273 00:18:57.839 --> 00:19:00.880 help and make an impact like this early on in my career. And I 274 00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:04.000 was on this call that I never should have been on because I was super 275 00:19:04.039 --> 00:19:07.039 young and like trying to like show that I had great ideas, so, 276 00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:08.759 you know, but I didn't know what I was doing. I'd never done 277 00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:14.559 it. Before, and I remember they asked me a simple question and I 278 00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:18.519 said, I think our connections bad. Hold on, and I googled it. 279 00:19:18.759 --> 00:19:19.799 I didn't know how to. I didn't even know what they were talking 280 00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:23.720 about. Yeah, I googled it fans and I was like, ah, 281 00:19:23.799 --> 00:19:29.240 yeah, you know. And that's just the hustle. Hustle you know. 282 00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:30.559 There you go. Your hat says that right now, you just figure it 283 00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:34.039 out. And that doesn't mean be a BS artist, far from it. 284 00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:38.960 But like hustle, ask questions, ask for help, and just roll with 285 00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:42.119 it. We're all in the same situation. No, no, no question 286 00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:45.759 now. Yeah, I was going to ask you about Kevin Kevin Hart's Cold 287 00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:49.119 Balls, which is I've seen, by the way, I've seen many episodes. 288 00:19:49.160 --> 00:19:52.599 I freaking I'm a huge Kevin Hart fan, Like, who is it? 289 00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:57.200 I mean, who is it? What is it like working with I've 290 00:19:57.240 --> 00:20:02.519 heard the same thing from people that worked with him. We'll be right back 291 00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:11.039 after a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show. Nothing 292 00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:15.160 but a professional, wonderful to work with, just there on time. Does 293 00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:19.599 his job makes people laugh and it's just working hard. What is it like 294 00:20:21.079 --> 00:20:25.240 working with him? And is there something you've taken away from you know, 295 00:20:25.480 --> 00:20:30.839 just working with a star of that calibri. He's a worldwide, huge star 296 00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:37.440 and megabankerball movie star, multi hyphen it CEO, business owner. Yeah, 297 00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:40.240 Kevin and I had many conversations. I mean, obviously, you know I 298 00:20:41.079 --> 00:20:45.720 own and run OBB which is one hat I direct, that's another hat I 299 00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:48.799 produce it. And he's a guy with a lot of dashes if you were 300 00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:53.119 to put try to introduce him right, and what I'll say is he has 301 00:20:53.960 --> 00:21:00.720 it and I might see, but just there is something about he's special. 302 00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:03.880 I mean the way his brain works, the way he reads a script and 303 00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:07.839 just knows it immediately, like he inside out. Something about his brain is 304 00:21:08.119 --> 00:21:12.680 different and he is gifted. What makes Kevin har Kevin Hart is there's that 305 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:18.759 plus this crazy work ethic, plus this like you know, charm and everything 306 00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:26.200 else. He's hilarious, but he has this intangible gift that I mean it's 307 00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:30.319 someone should study his brain. He's got this crazy mind and memory and gift 308 00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:33.039 and then you pair that with all the other checkboxes of things he has and 309 00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:37.200 you get Kevin Hart. But yeah, I mean, you work with a 310 00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:38.880 guy like that and you're just in the presence of you know, someone who's 311 00:21:38.920 --> 00:21:41.640 really really great. Yeah. And you know, I've had the pleasure of 312 00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:45.599 working with those kind of stars and you just know it when they walk in 313 00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:49.400 the room, there's just that thing that it's intangible. It's there's like, 314 00:21:49.480 --> 00:21:52.200 oh, yeah, that's why they're a huge movie star. I get it 315 00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:55.039 now. They don't have to say a word, you just go up. 316 00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:57.920 Yeah. It goes beyond confidence or the way they carry themselves. It's something, 317 00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:03.400 it's like this aura. And you know, I work with a lot 318 00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:11.599 of really talented people, and I think I have a real knack for getting 319 00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:15.720 great performances from people in scripted and unscripted, in movies and TV and in 320 00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:19.440 what have you? Right, And I think that that skill set, I 321 00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:22.039 can navigate the medium, whether it's by the way, in an audio we 322 00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:25.839 have an audio division, Like, I think I know how to go and 323 00:22:25.960 --> 00:22:30.079 communicate and get those things done. So I have a certain way of going 324 00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:34.839 about it. And you know, with Kevin specifically, anytime that I go 325 00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:41.880 to do my normal course, he just requires so much less or none at 326 00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:44.720 all, you know, and it's just like and I'm always like, man, 327 00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:48.000 I'll see how this goes. And he nails it nails it every time. 328 00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:51.480 So the prep work just does. And that's not to say that he's 329 00:22:51.559 --> 00:22:55.039 some guy that shows up and doesn't do prep. Whatever he's doing is working, 330 00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:59.960 and it's just like go for it and it never disappoints. He never 331 00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:03.680 seems like he doesn't know what he's talking about, and he I'll always be 332 00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:06.160 ready to go with a note and he'll just do it on his own. 333 00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:10.400 It's it's amazing, it's amazing. Now you've you know, obviously you've directed 334 00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:12.720 a lot of music videos. Is there anything that you brought from your music 335 00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:18.160 video experience into documentary because you have made a handful of documentary it's pretty high 336 00:23:18.160 --> 00:23:26.079 profile ones at that. Yeah, I think that I like mixing the world. 337 00:23:26.359 --> 00:23:30.359 Like I think that music videos are so stylistic, you know, you 338 00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:36.039 can stylize them so much, and in a in a very competitive world where 339 00:23:36.039 --> 00:23:40.440 there's so many docks right now, making stylistic choices to make yours rise up 340 00:23:40.480 --> 00:23:42.640 and feel special and different is a great move. Like you know, we 341 00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:48.519 were the opening night headliner film at south By Southwest is here with Dancing with 342 00:23:48.519 --> 00:23:55.279 the Devil and with Demi and the opening sequence of It's a four part piece, 343 00:23:56.000 --> 00:24:00.880 and the opening sequence basically plays like this, like ex our music video, 344 00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:03.559 and it's got all these little, like riddled pieces of the story that 345 00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:07.319 are symbolic, and if you were to play that piece straight through, it 346 00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:10.759 actually tells a story. It's more music video than it is doc, but 347 00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:15.680 it's an opening sequence, right. I think I took that from sort of 348 00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:25.839 my music video brain, and I think that when making docs, specifically music 349 00:24:25.880 --> 00:24:33.240 docs, I like to take parts of the creative and what makes those musicians 350 00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:38.680 so special and put that into the DNA of the filmmaking and some capacity, 351 00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:44.000 and sometimes then that sort of gets meld with more music video type motifs and 352 00:24:44.720 --> 00:24:48.039 it's fun to sort of weave in and out of that. Now, you 353 00:24:48.039 --> 00:24:52.680 know, I've seen some of your docs and you're able to get your subjects 354 00:24:52.839 --> 00:24:59.079 to open up to you and be very, very vulnerable. What tips do 355 00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:03.160 you have word filmmakers listening to be able to do that? I mean, 356 00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:06.799 and you're doing it with some of the biggest stars in the world, which 357 00:25:06.799 --> 00:25:10.720 I'm assuming is a whole other level of comfortable that you have to get in 358 00:25:10.839 --> 00:25:14.279 order to do that. But what suggestions do you have for filmmakers out there, 359 00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:25.920 Well, forget about the cameras. Forget about And what I mean by 360 00:25:25.920 --> 00:25:27.640 that is not forget that they're there. That's very obvious. And what I 361 00:25:27.680 --> 00:25:33.440 mean is, whatever day you plan to shoot, you better be working on 362 00:25:33.559 --> 00:25:42.160 your relationship with that person in a very non transactional way, way earlier on. 363 00:25:42.519 --> 00:25:48.640 And that means forget that you're directing them, forget that you're one day 364 00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:52.759 sitting down from a very genuine place. You need to care about that person 365 00:25:52.960 --> 00:26:00.400 and you need to care about the story you're telling and the vulnerability that you're 366 00:26:00.440 --> 00:26:06.039 referring to is earned, it's not just happenstance. And that's a comfort level 367 00:26:06.400 --> 00:26:12.880 of many many off the record and conversations, and you know, you ultimately 368 00:26:12.880 --> 00:26:15.240 get to a point where you understand what's your north star? You got to 369 00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:18.519 be on the same page with people too, what are you trying to accomplish? 370 00:26:18.759 --> 00:26:22.960 And you know, why should they trust you? And you need to 371 00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:27.240 go and have those hard and difficult conversations depending on what the subject matter is. 372 00:26:27.400 --> 00:26:32.000 But I think whether it's light or whether it's super heavy, you need 373 00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:36.000 to have that relationship and that takes time and energy and that stuff. There's 374 00:26:36.039 --> 00:26:38.680 no instant gratification with that, you know, you're nobody's gonna applaud You'd be 375 00:26:38.680 --> 00:26:41.599 like, you're such a great director, this film is so great, and 376 00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:45.680 you're not even gonna know yourself. You talk about being insecure, You're not 377 00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:48.400 gonna know yourself if you're if you're going to achieve what you're looking to collectively 378 00:26:48.440 --> 00:26:53.039 with that person. But just put in the time and and then you know, 379 00:26:53.359 --> 00:26:57.279 ask those questions in a way that are more conversational. I think you 380 00:26:57.279 --> 00:27:00.440 know I've said this before publicly, but like, there is this moment when 381 00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:04.880 I can tell that the interview has turned into a conversation, and the second 382 00:27:04.920 --> 00:27:10.599 that's happened, that's when you really start to speak in a way that's just 383 00:27:10.759 --> 00:27:17.000 so special. And it all comes down to trust in your relationship, and 384 00:27:18.119 --> 00:27:19.400 you know that just means you got to put the time in, like with 385 00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:22.480 all things. Yeah, it's funny. I've had I've had that experience with 386 00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:26.319 my guests sometimes where I'm talking to them and they forget that we're recording and 387 00:27:26.319 --> 00:27:30.200 they start asking like personal questions and like hey, where do you live? 388 00:27:30.200 --> 00:27:32.079 And I, you know, maybe we could I'm like, dud, dude, 389 00:27:32.119 --> 00:27:33.160 we're recording. Still and they're like, oh, yeah, yeah, 390 00:27:33.160 --> 00:27:36.720 I forgot, I forgot. Did you fall into that? And that's the 391 00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:41.400 magic place? That really is a magic place. Yeah. And you know 392 00:27:41.160 --> 00:27:45.720 there's also you know, someone could argue, well, if you're too close 393 00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:48.559 you know exactly what they want, are you're going to be too subjective in 394 00:27:48.599 --> 00:27:51.559 what you're saying you know? And the answer is no. You know, 395 00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:56.440 you can tell an objective story while understanding someone's heart and what they're after and 396 00:27:56.480 --> 00:27:59.519 why they're doing something. You know, one of the most interesting things was 397 00:27:59.559 --> 00:28:04.039 some of the really you know, large temple movies and projects that I've made 398 00:28:04.160 --> 00:28:10.359 as of late with big stars in the dock space specifically, is you know, 399 00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:15.640 it's really unique for that vulnerability and that window into these people's lives sometimes 400 00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:18.160 the good, the bad, and the ugly. For people to do that 401 00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:22.359 while they're in their prime, I think that's really unique to my work. 402 00:28:22.599 --> 00:28:26.720 Right, You've seen many people later on in life. I got nothing to 403 00:28:26.759 --> 00:28:29.880 lose. Here's what happened back in the day. You know, cool, 404 00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:33.519 that's really cool, that is, But there's something really special about somebody who 405 00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:37.160 has everything to lose, who's in the middle of it. Doesn't need to 406 00:28:37.160 --> 00:28:40.559 be doing that talking about those things because they want to connect with their fans 407 00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:44.160 and relate and you know, specifically to call out you know, Demi Lovado 408 00:28:44.240 --> 00:28:48.359 and Justin Bieber who both did that in their respective projects, you know, 409 00:28:48.440 --> 00:28:52.319 Seasons and Dancing with the Devil, I think are two prime examples of I 410 00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:56.319 am struggling and I am dealing with mental health issues and I'm dealing with Trump. 411 00:28:56.759 --> 00:29:00.160 And that's because I'm a human being, has nothing to do with that. 412 00:29:00.200 --> 00:29:03.119 I'm a celebrity, right, that is so bold, and that has 413 00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:07.519 nothing to do with me. Those are choices that they each made, and 414 00:29:07.559 --> 00:29:11.880 I was there to help facilitate their vision, which was really special. You 415 00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:15.440 know. It's so funny because I think in the era that I grew up, 416 00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:18.039 you know, I mean, I'm a bit older than you, but 417 00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:22.319 I mean I remember when Michael Jackson and Madonna and you know, all those 418 00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:26.440 big stars of the eighties and nineties, they they're put on these pedestals and 419 00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:30.680 they don't they're not shown as human. Yeah, they're they're just they're just 420 00:29:32.200 --> 00:29:37.240 the things almost And they never showed vulnerability ever because I wasn't expected of them. 421 00:29:37.279 --> 00:29:42.559 But in today's generation and today's artists. It's almost expected, like the 422 00:29:42.559 --> 00:29:48.160 Billie Eilishes of the world, and they are expected to be vulnerable and to 423 00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:55.920 be authentic and not packaged because fans want authenticity. People want authenticity. They 424 00:29:55.920 --> 00:30:00.799 are not going to just oh, you're pretty, we'll be right after a 425 00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:08.160 word from our sponsor and now back to the show. Great, there's a 426 00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:12.440 thousand other pretty people behind you. What makes you special? Oh you can 427 00:30:12.480 --> 00:30:15.720 send great, there's a thousand other people who can say really great too, 428 00:30:15.960 --> 00:30:19.880 what makes you special? And and your docks really kind of open up those 429 00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:22.920 doors to you know, two of the largest stars in the world right now. 430 00:30:23.559 --> 00:30:26.839 Yeah, totally. Yeah. I think that that is the different different 431 00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:32.440 you know, differentiator, Like I think that you know, the ability to 432 00:30:32.559 --> 00:30:37.039 go and sure Instagram you get like fifteen second clips into people's lives, but 433 00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:40.359 I always say people have like their Instagram personality, it's not really of course 434 00:30:40.440 --> 00:30:42.200 yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, certain way on there and it's quick and 435 00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:45.880 it's but like, that is access, right. We didn't used to get 436 00:30:45.880 --> 00:30:48.200 that access with a Michael Jackson or some of the artists you named, but 437 00:30:48.400 --> 00:30:52.400 that didn't really you know, obviously exist. But I still think these docks 438 00:30:52.440 --> 00:30:55.559 are that makes it even harder, right because it's like, oh, well 439 00:30:55.559 --> 00:30:56.839 you're getting a window win. So what makes the docks special? You know, 440 00:30:57.039 --> 00:31:02.240 we've already seen them inside the house, so we've already gotten the unfiltered 441 00:31:02.319 --> 00:31:07.000 version. It's like kind of that's still a bit of not people. It's 442 00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:11.119 polished or it's raw for a specific reason, like it's you know, it's 443 00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:15.160 it's raw. But like, what we try to do is really tell a 444 00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:21.160 story. And I don't believe that you need you need an hour and a 445 00:31:21.200 --> 00:31:22.359 half or two hours. Still a story. I don't believe that you need 446 00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:26.440 half an hour. I believe that story and duration and what's happening in content 447 00:31:26.519 --> 00:31:33.680 right now with all of the different options on distributor and you know, varying 448 00:31:33.759 --> 00:31:37.480 agnostic lengths of things is phenomenal. Also think that, you know, just 449 00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:44.440 quick hitters on social is not the way to really get deep and learn about 450 00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:49.240 stuff. So I think that these these music docs are a way to connect. 451 00:31:49.240 --> 00:31:52.680 And you know what, even more so in a time when touring stopped 452 00:31:52.759 --> 00:31:56.319 right the world back that we started talking about like you could not connect with 453 00:31:56.359 --> 00:31:59.319 fans, So what are you doing? What are you up to? And 454 00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:02.319 how can you go and speak to speak to those people that normally get to 455 00:32:02.319 --> 00:32:07.480 go and get maybe see you on the road or see performances or shows that 456 00:32:07.519 --> 00:32:12.440 you're on. So everybody had to like take a deep breath and settle down 457 00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:15.400 and stay in one place a bit. When you were doing Dancing with the 458 00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:19.319 Devil with Demie Lovado, you know, I you know, just at the 459 00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:22.279 beginning of the first episode, you know, it's like six months before the 460 00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:28.440 overdose, so you started that process and the overdose happened in the middle of 461 00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:32.920 it, right So actually, interestingly enough, they were working on a doc. 462 00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:37.480 It was a follow up simply complicated that I was not involved in, 463 00:32:37.480 --> 00:32:44.839 and then when the overdose, unfortunately happened, they stopped entirely, of course, 464 00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:47.839 And when they decided that they were ready to talk about that, I 465 00:32:47.960 --> 00:32:53.759 had recently, you know, months before put out Seasons, and that's what 466 00:32:54.119 --> 00:32:59.880 ultimately I think made DEMI feel like, ooh, you know, we could 467 00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:08.960 potentially tell this together because that tone and that level of authenticity and rawness was 468 00:33:09.079 --> 00:33:12.559 what I think they were looking to do, because I think that film would 469 00:33:12.599 --> 00:33:17.599 have been a different tone and style obviously, So it just called for a 470 00:33:17.640 --> 00:33:22.000 fresh restart, and I came in then, but I was able to inherit 471 00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:24.720 some of that footage obviously from before, and that was one of the filmmaking 472 00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:29.319 challenges, how to go and take some of the older stuff and ultimately shoot 473 00:33:29.400 --> 00:33:32.240 new stuff. And that's how we started. Yeah, it's and it's you're 474 00:33:32.319 --> 00:33:37.920 working with your subject as opposed to a documentarian who's recording a subject but is 475 00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:40.680 disconnected, meaning that they go off, they edit and the subject has no 476 00:33:42.200 --> 00:33:45.680 say on how it looks, where now you're I could only imagine how difficult 477 00:33:45.720 --> 00:33:49.319 that is. You're also now, hey, we're going to show the deepest, 478 00:33:49.400 --> 00:33:52.960 darkest parts that you want to show. We're going to expose all of 479 00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:55.960 it, and that's what this movie needs in order to do it. And 480 00:33:55.960 --> 00:34:00.680 they're involved with you, so that takes another level of bravery on the artists 481 00:34:00.680 --> 00:34:07.640 standpoint totally, and and it is. It's it's unique, and it's nuanced, 482 00:34:07.640 --> 00:34:12.840 and it's political, and you got to ultimately navigate that and it causes 483 00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:19.119 some awkward viewing sessions right where you know, on the one hand, I've 484 00:34:19.199 --> 00:34:22.159 poured my soul into the edit and getting the story out there and trying to 485 00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:27.159 achieve this, but you know, I'm sitting in a room watching some really 486 00:34:27.519 --> 00:34:31.960 dark moments of somebody's life with them. That's that's a very you know unique 487 00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:36.360 you know, you imagine, you know, we all go through ship, 488 00:34:36.679 --> 00:34:39.159 every one of us. But have you watched it on film? You know? 489 00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:44.960 Your you right talking about it? And then oh, can you send 490 00:34:44.960 --> 00:34:47.760 me archival footage from home videos? And can you connect me to your mother 491 00:34:49.159 --> 00:34:51.960 to send me videos of you as a kid? I mean imagine sitting there 492 00:34:51.960 --> 00:34:55.960 and watching that's the experience they go through, and you need to really be 493 00:34:57.079 --> 00:35:05.079 prepared for the reactions that will yield, and understanding again that it's for a 494 00:35:05.159 --> 00:35:08.360 specific purpose, and you do it and you work with the person. You 495 00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:12.840 know, I've never put out on the projects we're discussing here, like those 496 00:35:13.000 --> 00:35:17.320 get seen and discussed before they come out with the artist, and that does 497 00:35:17.360 --> 00:35:20.880 not mean that they're going well. You know, here's a list of things 498 00:35:20.920 --> 00:35:24.079 you can't say, you know that I haven't had that experience because there's always 499 00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:29.159 a conversation at the beginning of let's make sure that I'm the right person for 500 00:35:29.239 --> 00:35:32.000 this, and if I'm the right person, we need to tell a real 501 00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:36.079 story and we can't make a propaganda puff piece like I just not who. 502 00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:38.360 That's not the type of storyteller I am, and I don't think that's the 503 00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:43.039 what your you know, fans deserve, or ultimately what you want to do. 504 00:35:43.079 --> 00:35:45.679 And we've always had those difficult or just I shouldn't even say those conversations 505 00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:50.960 aren' difficult. It's just very straightforward conversations, and as such, I think 506 00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:53.719 it's resulted in these really special projects. Now. I mean, you've again 507 00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:57.960 worked with Demian and Justin and you know, two of the biggest stars in 508 00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:04.079 the world at the moment, you know, being in the orbit of those 509 00:36:04.199 --> 00:36:08.400 kind of stars, especially close to those orbits. I've had small moments of 510 00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:12.800 those as well, where you're just in the orbit and just like there's satellites 511 00:36:12.840 --> 00:36:15.159 around, there's planets running around, and they are the center of the universe. 512 00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:21.199 What is it like, day in, day out being with some of 513 00:36:21.239 --> 00:36:24.960 the biggest stars in the world and seeing what they go through because you're not 514 00:36:25.079 --> 00:36:30.639 just a satellite, you're like next too, and you're capturing it. So 515 00:36:30.679 --> 00:36:35.039 that must be a very different experience. You must have a sympathy for them 516 00:36:35.400 --> 00:36:38.800 that most might not because you see what they go through and things are on 517 00:36:38.880 --> 00:36:44.199 camera and off so what is it like just as a human being next to 518 00:36:44.920 --> 00:36:53.400 another human going through that experience? Great question and the answer. I've tried 519 00:36:53.440 --> 00:37:02.519 so hard to in my work explain what that experience is like, and you 520 00:37:02.559 --> 00:37:07.639 know, being hard on myself, I've never effectively done that because nothing can 521 00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:13.199 do with justice besides seeing it firsthand. And I've tried. I've tried to 522 00:37:13.199 --> 00:37:19.119 do the chaotic cuts of paparazzi and things happening, and it's like now to 523 00:37:19.239 --> 00:37:23.719 really see the forethought that goes into just moving, just getting up and going 524 00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:29.960 to do something because of how famous they are, that is like a second 525 00:37:30.039 --> 00:37:37.400 to second reality now. I've also been very careful to be mindful of nobody 526 00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:39.280 wants to hear the woe is me. I'm a celebrity in my life, 527 00:37:39.320 --> 00:37:43.320 you know, I can't move like there's a lot of perks, right, 528 00:37:43.440 --> 00:37:49.199 So it's tough, But that doesn't change the reality that, like it's hard, 529 00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:53.199 there are parts that are really hard, and human nature is not designed 530 00:37:53.199 --> 00:37:59.039 for fame and celebrity. We're not designed to be told how great we are 531 00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:01.039 twenty four to seven. We're not designed to not be able to go outside 532 00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:06.599 of question. Question, question, uncomfortable question, uncomfortable question. So, 533 00:38:07.039 --> 00:38:13.199 yeah, it does make you sympathetic or I should just say, really understanding 534 00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:17.519 of all sides of it. Nothing simple, and it makes you just sort 535 00:38:17.519 --> 00:38:22.079 of get it all. Also, it made me really understand that just just 536 00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:25.920 because you read something does not mean it's true at all. Like you know, 537 00:38:27.239 --> 00:38:34.000 you know it, there's there's there's people can say anything about anybody, 538 00:38:34.159 --> 00:38:37.719 and when you're really famous, people just say stuff. And then you know 539 00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:40.920 but that that words matter, words have power. News you know outlets, 540 00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:44.559 you would think that, oh, well, you know it's there. They're 541 00:38:44.559 --> 00:38:46.039 a news outlet. It's got to be real, Like, no, it's 542 00:38:46.119 --> 00:38:50.199 it doesn't. I've just seen a lot of stuff where I've been with people 543 00:38:50.199 --> 00:38:52.119 and then you know that there's an article saying there was somewhere else. I'm 544 00:38:52.119 --> 00:38:54.079 like, wait a se well, you know, and that you start like 545 00:38:54.199 --> 00:39:00.079 realizing just that's that's a daily occurrence. And I think that while stars who 546 00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:04.360 have been in the limelight for a long time probably get a bit immune to 547 00:39:04.400 --> 00:39:07.159 it, it's still annoying. It's still frustrating, and it can cause you 548 00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:12.559 to act out a character at times. And it's a really interesting peak behind 549 00:39:12.559 --> 00:39:16.199 the curtain as to what those people go through, and you know, many 550 00:39:16.280 --> 00:39:21.480 of whom really do a pretty damn good job. And sure they slip here 551 00:39:21.480 --> 00:39:23.280 and there, but for the most part, I've been really impressed and I 552 00:39:23.320 --> 00:39:29.480 have no idea how I would handle that sort of a level of celebrity. 553 00:39:29.480 --> 00:39:31.079 And that's why it's so interesting. That's why I asked you the questions, 554 00:39:31.119 --> 00:39:37.480 because you get the kind of role play that almost you know, cause play 555 00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:39.559 that if you will, because you're right next to them. It's not you 556 00:39:39.599 --> 00:39:43.039 doing it. You could walk away at any second and no one's really going 557 00:39:43.079 --> 00:39:46.239 to stop you in the street. For the most part, maybe in LA, 558 00:39:47.320 --> 00:39:52.480 but generally speaking, it is. It is. It's fascinating to me, 559 00:39:52.599 --> 00:39:57.880 and so many people want to be rich and famous. We'll be right 560 00:39:57.920 --> 00:40:05.880 back after a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show. 561 00:40:06.519 --> 00:40:09.559 But they don't understand that there is a cost man, there is a cost 562 00:40:09.800 --> 00:40:13.480 and look like you said, no, woe is me? They looked for 563 00:40:13.519 --> 00:40:16.760 it. I mean, funny story, I was on the set. I 564 00:40:16.800 --> 00:40:22.400 was doing music videos in LA fifteen years ago something like that, and I 565 00:40:22.519 --> 00:40:27.000 was invited to an Usher music video and there was like, there's this young 566 00:40:27.079 --> 00:40:30.039 kid who's going to be in it and I'm like, who's this young kid. 567 00:40:30.079 --> 00:40:31.159 He's like, oh, some kid named Justin Bieber, and I had 568 00:40:31.880 --> 00:40:37.519 he was nobody. Justin was nobody. He was fifteen. He's tripping over 569 00:40:37.639 --> 00:40:39.920 cables, he's just trying to dance and there I'm just like, oh cool. 570 00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:45.880 I get to see Usher six months later, baby baby hits. I 571 00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:50.920 was just like, what the hell? And so I have a I saw 572 00:40:51.239 --> 00:40:53.360 Justin when he was a kid, like he was literally just fifteen, he 573 00:40:53.440 --> 00:40:58.480 was just but he was so even at that moment when I saw him and 574 00:40:58.519 --> 00:41:01.159 I was on set with him, you could just see it. You're like, 575 00:41:01.400 --> 00:41:05.199 there's something there. I don't know what it is. And this is 576 00:41:05.239 --> 00:41:07.840 not the song because I saw the music, I'm like, no, this 577 00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:12.679 is not the one, but it was. It was really interesting and people 578 00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:15.519 do ask for this, but they have to be really careful what Yeah. 579 00:41:15.519 --> 00:41:19.599 I think also question is you don't know what you're asking for it till you 580 00:41:19.599 --> 00:41:23.440 get it, and you got so it's like this is it? So yeah, 581 00:41:23.480 --> 00:41:29.760 I think again, it's just it's fascinating. Yeah, And like with 582 00:41:29.800 --> 00:41:32.679 all things again, there's pros and cons. Yeah, exactly, like you 583 00:41:32.679 --> 00:41:37.920 know, you know bad Day who knows who knows who it is. It 584 00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:39.599 is a pros and cons. Now tell me about your new film with Justin 585 00:41:39.960 --> 00:41:45.599 Our World. Yeah, came out in October, really exciting, It was 586 00:41:45.599 --> 00:41:47.400 fun. It was you know, you do a heavy doc series like Seasons 587 00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:52.400 and then you pivot and you make a really fun film that's you know, 588 00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:58.000 obviously COVID is like looming over this thing, and people were going through really 589 00:41:58.360 --> 00:42:05.280 a rough time and unfortunately, of course people were dying from COVID and everybody 590 00:42:05.440 --> 00:42:08.559 was in a weird spot with work and figuring out how to provide and that's 591 00:42:08.559 --> 00:42:13.519 a character in this piece. But once we get to the stage, it's 592 00:42:13.559 --> 00:42:17.400 a celebration of like his music, and it's a nostalgic walk, you know, 593 00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:25.119 down memory lane from baby to now and there's it's really verite and gritty, 594 00:42:25.199 --> 00:42:30.119 and I think it was really cool how Justin was like a DP and 595 00:42:30.119 --> 00:42:32.760 shot himself in it and Haley, and you know that was really because of 596 00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:37.719 safety protocols. I couldn't be there all the time good in a weak style. 597 00:42:37.199 --> 00:42:45.440 And then obviously we juxtaposing that with thirty two cameras set up with drones 598 00:42:45.480 --> 00:42:47.440 and all the flashiness. The Night of the show on the top of the 599 00:42:47.480 --> 00:42:52.159 Beverly Hilton was pretty unique, and I think it captured the spirit of that 600 00:42:52.199 --> 00:42:58.840 moment in time and it was really it was really awesome. I enjoyed making 601 00:42:58.960 --> 00:43:00.440 a concert doc, you know, And that's really what it was. It 602 00:43:00.440 --> 00:43:06.800 was a concert heavy dock and it's it was. It was a blast, 603 00:43:06.800 --> 00:43:08.679 and I think people really enjoyed it. And how I mean, how was 604 00:43:08.719 --> 00:43:12.360 it shooting during the COVID protocol? Man, Like, I mean, it's 605 00:43:12.400 --> 00:43:15.800 on such a big it was a pretty big production. I mean, thirty 606 00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:20.320 two cameras. It's no joke, It's no I'm like, my, my, 607 00:43:20.320 --> 00:43:22.639 my, my butt just puckered. When you said thirty two cameras. 608 00:43:22.639 --> 00:43:24.119 I'm like, oh Jesus, how did I mean? I'm assuming at some 609 00:43:24.159 --> 00:43:28.599 point you're just like, hopefully I'll get some footage off of those those sets 610 00:43:28.639 --> 00:43:30.960 of cameras because you're not seeing everything at all times. Right. Well, 611 00:43:31.039 --> 00:43:35.079 it was just we were shooting the hell out of it, right, I 612 00:43:35.079 --> 00:43:38.480 mean, we had drones in the sky, we had cameras on balconies, 613 00:43:39.039 --> 00:43:44.000 we had long lenses from certain is. Uh, you know, we we 614 00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:47.280 were doubling the livestream cameras and then we had the ability to convert it to 615 00:43:47.320 --> 00:43:52.440 four K, which is obviously what ended up on the Amazon film, and 616 00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:57.159 we then had a bunch of you know, running gun shooters getting cool you 617 00:43:57.199 --> 00:44:02.000 know, dynamic shots and the and whatnot. But it was really crazy shooting 618 00:44:02.119 --> 00:44:07.159 in COVID because we had our bubble and there was daily testing and if somebody 619 00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:10.480 went down, the whole show is at risk obviously, so you had to 620 00:44:10.480 --> 00:44:17.440 just be super, super careful and everything was incredibly thought through and we you 621 00:44:17.480 --> 00:44:23.159 know, luckily pulled it off. But that what made the loom of COVID 622 00:44:23.159 --> 00:44:28.159 and everything going on and pulling off the show a very interesting storyline also, 623 00:44:28.239 --> 00:44:30.760 like we had to live that making it. It was not just manufactured drama. 624 00:44:31.039 --> 00:44:34.880 It was like, all right, everybody's negative, okay, good good, 625 00:44:34.880 --> 00:44:37.039 you know, and Nick to Moro goes down with COVID as his creative 626 00:44:37.039 --> 00:44:40.039 director, and then Justin had to fully step up and lead the team, 627 00:44:40.079 --> 00:44:44.480 which you know, was a good story point because part of this was about 628 00:44:44.599 --> 00:44:47.920 Justin really coming into his own and really leading every part of his life for 629 00:44:47.960 --> 00:44:52.079 the first time. Really. I mean, he's he's a grown man, 630 00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:53.679 you know, and we all think, you know, we remember what you 631 00:44:53.679 --> 00:44:58.159 hear Justin and you're like, well, baby, and he's grown out. 632 00:44:58.239 --> 00:45:01.519 He's a grown ass man with a family. He's he's a grown man with 633 00:45:01.559 --> 00:45:05.920 a wife and and and you know, leading many of the same people he's 634 00:45:05.960 --> 00:45:07.519 been with. He's incredibly loyal, which is really cool. You know. 635 00:45:07.559 --> 00:45:10.480 You go and one of the storylines that I thought was important to hit home 636 00:45:10.480 --> 00:45:14.320 and he thought as well, was like, you know, he's been with 637 00:45:14.360 --> 00:45:16.280 the same people for all those years. It's very rare to see in any 638 00:45:16.400 --> 00:45:21.599 field, but in music especially, So it's it's a fun one. It's 639 00:45:21.599 --> 00:45:25.880 a really fun watch and you know, it's it's it's just enjoyable to go 640 00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:30.880 and watch some good music and you know, you'll realize how many Justin Bieber. 641 00:45:31.039 --> 00:45:32.760 But if you're a fan, of course you know, but even if 642 00:45:32.800 --> 00:45:37.000 not, you'll be like, man, he's one talented person. There's a 643 00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:38.639 lot of songs that you don't even sometimes I don't even realize is Justin And 644 00:45:38.639 --> 00:45:42.239 you're like, oh, he's a Justin Baber song. Oh yeah, like 645 00:45:44.000 --> 00:45:45.400 he's or he guest starred on this, or get you know, you know, 646 00:45:45.440 --> 00:45:49.960 guests popped on that, and it's just he's it's hard to believe he's 647 00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:54.440 been around for fifteen odd years at this point in the game and still and 648 00:45:54.519 --> 00:46:00.280 still going and still being relative, you know, relative because relevant to excuse 649 00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:04.280 me, because a lot of those boy bands, as we all know from 650 00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:08.800 the nineties in the early two thousands, there, they're not relevant. He 651 00:46:08.960 --> 00:46:12.800 just put out a number one album. He's about to go on like a 652 00:46:12.880 --> 00:46:16.840 sold out arena tour. So pretty impressive. He's doing. He's doing all 653 00:46:16.920 --> 00:46:20.760 right, He's doing okay, He's okay, He's okay. Now, what's 654 00:46:20.800 --> 00:46:27.119 next for you? Man? Working on another big documentary right now that I 655 00:46:27.159 --> 00:46:30.840 have not announced yet, but we are into it and seven months into it 656 00:46:31.360 --> 00:46:36.599 hopefully will come out end of this year beginning of next. I'm producing another 657 00:46:36.639 --> 00:46:40.840 big doc that have not announced yet that sorry, this just went off, 658 00:46:42.880 --> 00:46:45.679 that we are in pre pro on, which is really exciting. And then 659 00:46:46.199 --> 00:46:52.760 we have an animated music show that's really exciting that's with the network that we 660 00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:57.400 haven't announced yet. So there's there's there's a bunch of stuff. There's a 661 00:46:57.519 --> 00:47:00.920 there's there's some scripted TV shows, and then there's a couple of these doc 662 00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:06.119 films. We're working on a whole bunch of stuff. And then really exciting 663 00:47:06.119 --> 00:47:09.000 for us, we're building out our first studio here in La so we have, 664 00:47:09.840 --> 00:47:13.960 yeah, a big production facility where we're building out stuff so we'll be 665 00:47:14.000 --> 00:47:16.519 able to bring a lot of our productions in house. But it's been great. 666 00:47:16.559 --> 00:47:21.199 I mean, we are going to be forty eight people here at OBB 667 00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:25.960 by the end of year, which is just a number. Yeah, it's 668 00:47:27.000 --> 00:47:30.239 been exciting time. But you know, we have this audio business that does 669 00:47:30.280 --> 00:47:35.360 podcasts and audio projects. You know, we have our film group, we 670 00:47:35.440 --> 00:47:37.079 have TV. There's a lot of stuff going on and at the heart of 671 00:47:37.119 --> 00:47:42.039 it all is stories and we're very lucky that we're in a time when there 672 00:47:42.079 --> 00:47:45.159 are there's such a need everybody needs content right now, and we're making stuff 673 00:47:45.199 --> 00:47:50.559 and it's a it's a fun time to play because dollars are not just coming 674 00:47:50.559 --> 00:47:53.960 from financiers or distributors, coming from brands coming from all over the place. 675 00:47:54.480 --> 00:48:00.199 So we're working in a number of different areas with a number of different partners 676 00:48:00.239 --> 00:48:05.039 and having a blast. Yeah, Kevin Hart's cole Balls is by Old Spice. 677 00:48:05.840 --> 00:48:08.360 That's that's exactly right, And yeah, we have seen that. There's 678 00:48:08.360 --> 00:48:12.320 another one. We got season six of that coming up that will be shooting, 679 00:48:12.599 --> 00:48:15.679 which is just I no matter what size project or what I'm doing or 680 00:48:15.679 --> 00:48:19.840 what's going on, I find out how to carve out time to direct that 681 00:48:19.880 --> 00:48:23.320 show. It's just so fun. I can imagine I have to like do 682 00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:27.920 these wonky schedules for like, you know, whatever big thing I'm working on, 683 00:48:27.960 --> 00:48:30.440 because I'm like I want to. That's such an example of the new 684 00:48:30.599 --> 00:48:35.199 TV modern win. You know. It's it's a twelve to fifteen minute like 685 00:48:35.559 --> 00:48:38.960 internet show that just blew up and gets millions of viewers with a brand sponsor, 686 00:48:39.480 --> 00:48:43.559 and that works right with a move with an A plus bankable movie starts. 687 00:48:43.800 --> 00:48:46.559 That's an example of just how our landscape has changed, right and being 688 00:48:46.920 --> 00:48:51.079 you know, they shouldn't call it film school anymore. It's content school, 689 00:48:51.199 --> 00:48:52.800 you know, and and and people should want to be content makers, not 690 00:48:52.880 --> 00:48:58.000 filmmakers like and again, nothing wrong. I'm a film I love film, 691 00:48:58.039 --> 00:49:02.440 but I always think, you know, if some of these iconic filmmakers from 692 00:49:02.440 --> 00:49:07.800 the past were starting today, they'd be using all of these different technologies and 693 00:49:07.880 --> 00:49:13.039 distribute Spielberg Yeah, Spielberg a guy, yeah. Tell stories at different lines. 694 00:49:13.280 --> 00:49:15.840 Tell the best one minute story, Tell the best five minute story. 695 00:49:15.880 --> 00:49:20.039 And that's what we're doing. We're doing stuff on all these different mediums and 696 00:49:20.199 --> 00:49:22.199 just having a lot of fun. Now I'm going to ask a your questions, 697 00:49:22.199 --> 00:49:24.440 to ask all my guests. What advice would you give a filmmaker trying 698 00:49:24.440 --> 00:49:29.880 to break into the business today? Make it actually make it, don't talk 699 00:49:29.880 --> 00:49:31.360 about it, make it, go outside and shoot it, and if it's 700 00:49:31.360 --> 00:49:35.760 not great, make it a little bit better next time. But don't just 701 00:49:35.800 --> 00:49:37.840 develop forever. Don't just put it on paper, Go and make it. 702 00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:42.719 You can actually make stuff, now, do it yourself. What is the 703 00:49:42.800 --> 00:49:45.519 lesson that took you the longest to learn, whether in the film industry or 704 00:49:45.559 --> 00:49:52.880 in life. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, and 705 00:49:52.960 --> 00:50:01.000 now back to the show. Ninety per is good enough? You know, 706 00:50:02.719 --> 00:50:07.079 don't don't like us, otherwise you'll be just paralyzed and you'll never put stuff 707 00:50:07.119 --> 00:50:15.000 out. You know, delegation right, you know, like don't you don't 708 00:50:15.039 --> 00:50:17.440 need you can't do everything. If you're really going to go and have influence 709 00:50:17.440 --> 00:50:21.079 and make a lot of stuff at once, you got to build a great 710 00:50:21.079 --> 00:50:24.119 team. But you know, I think it's it's it's letting go and and 711 00:50:24.159 --> 00:50:29.480 putting stuff out to the world and and and not caving into that fear that 712 00:50:29.559 --> 00:50:30.480 starts. It's not there yet, It's not there yet. You know you 713 00:50:30.480 --> 00:50:36.079 gotta you gotta release it eventually. And last question, three of your favorite 714 00:50:36.079 --> 00:50:38.960 films of all time? I think I gave you three already, Which which 715 00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:45.000 are Happy Gilmore, Billy Madison, super Bad, I can Love, I 716 00:50:45.039 --> 00:50:50.960 Love We Yeah, we covered it, we started it. I I I 717 00:50:51.000 --> 00:50:57.280 mean, I love Charlie Chaplin movies. I love Chaplain films watch oh yeah, 718 00:50:57.360 --> 00:51:00.920 oh yeah, even film yeah, even the film like Limelight. I 719 00:51:00.920 --> 00:51:05.199 know that gets like I like, I really love Chaplain. I And you 720 00:51:05.199 --> 00:51:08.320 know he made short films and silent films and to talkies, so I'll add 721 00:51:08.360 --> 00:51:12.199 Chaplain into them. Oh. Can you imagine if Chaplin was around today, 722 00:51:12.360 --> 00:51:15.760 like what he would be doing? Oh god, different kind of thing, 723 00:51:15.800 --> 00:51:19.239 a lot of having a lot of fun. I always like imagine Kubrick with 724 00:51:19.239 --> 00:51:23.199 today's technology. Oh my god, talk about shooting. You'd shoot forever before 725 00:51:23.239 --> 00:51:27.760 you had the limitations of film. Can you imagine you just shoot and shoot? 726 00:51:28.360 --> 00:51:30.159 Michael Man, it's been a pleasure talking to you, brother. Thank 727 00:51:30.199 --> 00:51:31.960 you again so much for being on the show Man and a continued success. 728 00:51:32.519 --> 00:51:37.360 Thank you for having me fun. I want to thank Michael so much for 729 00:51:37.400 --> 00:51:40.440 coming on the show and dropping his knowledge bombs on the Trap today. Thank 730 00:51:40.440 --> 00:51:43.320 you so much, Michael. If you want to get links to anything we 731 00:51:43.320 --> 00:51:46.519 spoke about in this episode, head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting 732 00:51:46.679 --> 00:51:51.119 dot TV forward slash three fifty five. Thank you so much for listening to 733 00:51:51.119 --> 00:51:53.800 guys as always, keep on writing no matter what. I'll talk to you 734 00:51:53.840 --> 00:52:00.119 soon. Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof screen right in 735 00:52:00.320 --> 00:52:06.280 dot t v. Mm hmm