What is up fellow Thermo nuclear A efforts. I am Damp Valley coming at
you with a pre intro before we hop into the second part of this mailbag
to let you know that this is part two of what's going to be a
three part mailbag because we had so many questions this week Before we get started.
The usual reminders to continue subscribing to us wherever you get us. If
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They're also basically just at Hardwood Knox. Instagram is at Hardwood Underscore Knox
though, and join the Discord. We have grant in there. The link
to that is in the YouTube and podcast description as well. Last, but
certainly not least, I want to thank everyone who's been tagging us and their
Spotify raps or letting us know how long they've listened to us for this past
year. It genuinely does mean the world, and I try and be transparent
about that, and I say it so much that's probably a cliche on this
podcast, but just given how close we were to shuddering things over the off
season, it means a lot that there's still a you know, that we
have a what feels like a very loyal community, even though it's not the
biggest, and we are continuously trying to grow it. And I did just
want to say something because I guess it's like we're approaching the end of the
year now that we're in December, and so it's a time for reflection,
and I want to make it clear that I'm I never want to stop being
grateful for our listeners, for our Discord members, the people who help us
really you know, dictate and direct where the content is going, because we
want to put stuff out there that you like even if you're not necessarily agreeing
with everything we say, and Discord has been fun. I do see more
people active in they're independent of me actually saying something, which is really really
cool. I do try and respond as much as possible, and it just
it really it does meet a lot whenever people are tagging us or shouting us
out on Twitter, where I've gotten DM saying that our podcast was recommended by
someone like that's just super cool. And the mail back questions are super appreciated
as well. And it's like I've said before, and it's on behalf of
Grant, like we just don't do this like at this point, Like again,
it's just the interest of full transparency. We know it's going on with
advertising revenue, it's just been slashed. This podcast has never been This is
probably the least profitable stretch that the podcast has been up for me personally,
and I've been doing this for seven years. It's luckily I'm not in a
position to where I need the podcast to do anything. But it's very much
a passion project and it's the listeners, the Discord members, the people who
interact with us and actually have discussions with us, who are consuming our content
that really drive me to keep going. And you know, I recognize that
this podcast isn't perfect. It has things that we need to improve upon.
I would love to you know, extend our reach. Of course, I
do feel like, you know, to point out a flaw that I've probably
had my hands and just too many things at the moment trying to you know,
run a TikTok and Instagram why I don't necessarily even see the benefit of
those necessarily, in like, the YouTube channel is sort of stagnated to where
we're not getting hundreds of new subscribers every month, and so I might need
to centralize the focus. It's things that are constantly shifting. But and there
are there are moments, there are days, there are weeks where I just
I don't understand why I am doing this, why we're doing this at all,
and it feels like a waste of time. But then every so often
they'll just be moments where it's you know, listeners saying something, tagging us
on on Twitter, shoutouts, had a Twitter are getting a discord message,
just remembering how fun it is to interact with all the people that listen.
That does keep me going. That's to just that's not to go woe is
me. That's just to reiterate, which I will continue to do because I
do think it's something that podcast could do a better job of of how grateful
I am for the community for giving us a reason to keep going, and
again for being so nice and for continuing to listen to us, especially long
time listeners as well. With that long ass ramble out of the way,
though, let's get to part two of this three part mail bag. Grant
was here for the first two parts. We did, like, like,
I don't know, ninety plus minutes of a mail bag together, so we
split up into two and I have a solo one coming out for part three.
Since we just had so many great questions, let's hop right into it.
This next question comes from Demo's quoal and he asked, is this Kyrie
is? Is Kyrie? Can getting rid of Kyrie be additioned by subtraction for
the nets? Essentially the question this was posed during Kyrie's suspension from the team.
I still think it's a fair question either way. The nets are foreign
two since Kyrie came back, but where do you I think this question matters
because kyre ring is probably not going to be a member of the Nets next
year. That's just the expectation. So just where do you land on this,
Well, I mean just off if we you know, on the court,
I'm open to the idea that like, I mean, he's been he's
been the second best player on a championship team and was the second best player
on the team that if not for the Warriors, could have won three or
four. So like, and he's not that guy, but he's close enough
to where if you have Kevin Durant as your number one, Kyrie is your
number two, you have decent role players. This is nothing new. Brooklyn
has has had and has the talent to be really dangerous. I just wouldn't
want him in my locker room as a voice that it just wouldn't want him
around. So the addition by subtraction idea, it's pretty clear to me.
I just wouldn't want him on my team full stop. But as far as
the Nets playing better, I think it's just a it's it's a it's the
less like sexy answer, But it's just a combination of stuff. Like,
you know, Ben Simmons has been a lot better set curries back and making
everything. You know, from three you get Joe Harris looking a little better,
Durant spen on a heater. It's not just Kyrie not being there.
But if the question is, would the Nets be better without him, like
in every sense except for yeah, he might get you thirty and win you
a few games and you know, maybe win a playoff series, I don't
know, Like yeah, I think so. I mean it's just just for
the overall organizational health and just just for sort of making it a more manageable,
you know, easy to run, potentially just a successful franchise. Like
yeah, I'd be good with no Kyrie on the Nets. I think he
can can be He can complicate the Ben Simmons fit. At points, and
before Ben Simmons is injury, he did look a lot a lot better.
I don't know if it would necessarily be additioned by subtraction, like you need.
I would want to get value for Kyrie Irving, but like just the
general vibes around that team were better when he wasn't there. He's a fat,
pastic basketball player. But when you have Durant and Patty Mills and Joe
Harris and Seth Curry, I don't know, Like, yeah, I guess
Kyrie is like the other guy, and they have court that you would trust
to go out and get a bucket before Seth and Joe Harris and all that.
So I don't think it's I will say, I don't think it's from
a basketball perspective. I don't think it's just addition by subtraction if you get
rid of if Kyrie and also Kyrie leaves, like is Kevin Durant long for
Brooklyn at that point? Is the other element of that question? Yeah,
well that was easy. Let's move on to the next one. This is
from Glad. What is one rule change you think will happen after this year
and what is something you want to change? Bonus question? Any thoughts on
what feels like an emphasis on calling more travels and I'm throwing in more carries
because I've watched Jordan Pool, so I think they're going to change and they
should have the clock killing gimmick where we've seen the Grizzlies and the Grizzlies I
knew, did it like the Celtics were just like I didn't really. I
guess I wasn't watching like intuitively enough with them letting the ball rules that times
comes off the clock when not the shot clock. That just needs to change.
I think they need to change. I think they will change that.
We kind of saw that when the take foul was becoming I guess that was
a longer standing issue, or at least one that was noticed for longer.
A rule change that I think should happen is interesting. I don't understand why
I'm not trying to slow the game down more so, like let's put a
time limit on how long it takes a review plays and challenges. But like,
if you successfully challenge a call, why do you lose your challenge?
Yeah? Why, Like shouldn't you still have it? I'll compromise. Here's
the thing I think that, Well, the reason you lose it is because
you know, you might have like five or six challenges if a coach gets
hot on the challenges, and then you're just but to mitigate that my rule
change, I'd like to see this fewer timeouts. Teams get seven. And
it's like, this is the oldest complaint ever, is that the last twenty
seconds of a basketball game can take like twenty minutes because both sides are calling
timeouts just to advance the ball or to just stop the clock so we can
get an offense defense sub Like, I hate that it totally ruins the the
game. It takes a lot of the spontaneity out of it. You see
some coaches that instead of calling a time out for a last second shot after
a made basket, they'll just let the guys run up. And like,
that's how you get Steph Curry hitting it from half court in okay See to
win the game in Game six of the twenty sixteen Conference. Like, you
get amazing plays and sometimes you get better shots with just the free flowing,
you know approach instead of let's draw something up. I just think we need
maybe one or two timeouts per half, and if you want to save those
for the last you know, two minutes, great, If not, we
just don't need We don't need seven timeouts per team, plus replay plus TV
timeouts plus like I don't know you're gonna get an infectious disease control timeout once
a game. It's just like it's too much. I'd like to be able
to watch an NBA game without skipping free throws, you know, like when
you're trying to really bank a few games in a night, and like under
two it's got to be under two hours, give me ninety minutes, like,
let's let's move it along, let's let the action. That's like,
that's shaving an hour off the game at this point. You know what we
should speed the let's have six minute quarter. No. So the other thing,
the carrying and the travel stuff, for sure been a point of emphasis.
I hope this goes one of two ways, because what always happens with
stuff like this is this usually happens at the very beginning of a season.
Referees will have points of emphasis and they will enforce the shit out of them
for like two weeks or a month, and then you never hear from it
again, like delay of games on like touching the ball after made basket two
years ago. Just every single time we were getting delay a game on the
defensive team and then it just stopped. It's still like you're not supposed to
touch it, but now if you catch it and kind of throw it to
the ref or the other team, they don't they don't whistle you for that.
So for the carrying stuff, either keep it at this standard where we're
calling it like justifiably because there are a ton of carries now and everybody's bag
keep it like this, or just go back to how it was before,
but like the elective enforcement and that we're gonna do it for a month and
then like Jordan Pool will be allowed to carry all the time again starting in
January. Like that's not good for anybody, because I think you just need
either call it or don't, and let's let's just keep it consistent, because
I don't like the idea that we're gonna remember November as the month where the
NBA called five hundred carries and then they didn't call a hundred the rest of
the year. That that I don't want. My conspiracy is the NBA was
too worried about like offensive becoming just so thermonuclear. Well what do you do,
because I think that's legitimate because you can't touch anybody anymore too. That's
like that they But the average offensive rating right now would exceed what it was
last year. I think I would have to go back and look, actually
it was one thirteen last year. I don't know what it is off the
top of my head. This year, I'll look at that really quickly.
But I think you're right on the point of episodes. There's stuff like this
every single year. It feels like if I had to guess because they would
be worried about slowing down the pace of the game. Oh it was,
it's one twelve point nine this year, mission accomplished, down from one thirteen.
I think that it's not going to be like as big of a point
of empasis. When I was thinking about this question, I was like,
well, were they trying to like limit the number of these like charges that
players are going to try and drop by stepping in on Like I don't really
know if there's any rhyme or reason thought to why you would enforce travels and
carries more often than not. So let's see if this sticks in like January
or February. The other thing I would like to see changed ban the last
two minute report, because what is I like the transparency, the notion,
I get it, but like it's also not hard to review those things in
real time. It's like, let's speed up the process and implement the last
two minute report in real times. It's happening so that let's say, I
think Kings fans have been the ones I feel like they're the ones that they've
been killed at the most this year, so that the Kings aren't losing games
like by like or that these games aren't ending on calls that they deemed to
miss. It's not hard to review like those like you have. You don't
need the refs like to get on stare at the screen for like eighty minutes
like you have Secaucus, New Jersey. Like, let's like you can speed
that entire process while also expanding it. I feel like you'd think the other.
The last thing is I really thought that the James Harden like double triple
step back thing was was just not going to be allowed. I thought there
would be a point of emphasis on that, and it just hasn't really happened.
I'm still not convinced that that's not a travel And like again, watching
a lot of Steph Curry, like, man, he gets away with a
lot of like that was really three and a half steps and they're just quick
little shuffles before he's fully caught it, and it's there's just like it all
the you know what it is. All it is is that type of play
just kind of looks wrong to me, like it looks like you shouldn't be
able to do that. And maybe it's because my eyes are getting slow,
but it started with like the late gather and guys like Lebron and Harden really
weaponizing that to get essentially three steps. Jannis does it, and I guess
that's just okay now, But which is fine because again it's like, let's
juice the offense because fans like offense, and we're selling a product, so
they should like the product. But the double triple step back thing is it
just rubs me the wrong way sometimes. But you did that one, so
let's move on to oh wow, okay, this oh No. Eight,
I was skipping one. Some of these questions might be a little bit spicy.
But Glad also asked which trade was worse now that it has been a
few years. The Lakers trade for eighty year. The Clippers trade for PG.
The Clippers gave up Shay and five first round pick. We all know
the trades one, but the Clippers giving five first round picks, four and
protected, one protected, along with two pick swaps and haven't even gone to
the finals. The Lakers got brand ingram Lonzo and Josh Hart the number four
pick in twenty nineteen, unprotected, twenty two and twenty four first and unprotected
swaps in twenty three, twenty five, three first and two swaps, all
unprotected. The Lakers want a title, but have really screwed themselves the lack
of assets and poor roster construction they have. Now, if we wanted a
grand scheme of things, questions, is it worth mortgaging the future for a
single championship? So it's this is a floor ceiling question because the easy answer
is, well, the Clippers trade is worse because the Lakers trade netted a
title, and anything it's it's worth it. And that's the zooming out question
is like is there anything you shouldn't do if it results in a title?
And I think a lot of executives would say whatever it takes, because it's
so hard to do it. Only one team does it every year. If
you can win a title, you should do whatever you possibly can, especially
going back to the last couple questions ago, like you're not going to be
a coach or a GM or a head executive of a team for twenty years
or fifteen or ten even in most cases, like you might get three to
seven years, maybe a little more. And if you can win a title
in that window, who cares if your predecessor doesn't have any draft picks left.
Like that's how I think it makes sense for executives to operate at the
same time. The Lakers floor now because of that trade is like real scary
because you're looking at the swap this year that might get the Pelicans another really
lucrative pick. You got no assets, you can't you can't give up anything
because you only have two first you can trade to get off a bad contract
in Russell Westbrook, Like it's gonna get ugly. The Clippers, they've got
like eight guys you could trade for a protected first or maybe something better than
that. They've been good. They still might you know, in the next
year or two reach their ceiling. Their floor is like they're not gonna bottom
out, They're gonna be okay. What that that doesn't necessarily relate to the
trade. It's more about how the rosters were managed, like after the trades,
with the Lakers just blowing every offseason. So I think probably I have
to still say that the Clippers trade is worse losing Sga that stuff, because
you could make the case that he would be a better piece to have than
either Chair or Paul George right now potentially, but the Lakers want a title,
so like I just have to keep it simple and go that way,
if you have to pick one, it's you. Is it worth mortaging everything
for a title? And I think the answers yes, And the Lakers are
all so fucked up now because of decisions they have made after the fact,
which I think is kind of colors that. But I will say, and
this is pointing out in discord, it has been pointing out many times,
we've disgusted that Paul George trade was also about getting Kawhi Leonard right. And
so like the best way I ever saw a phrase was that Sam Presty found
a way to trade both Kawai and Paul George without ever having Kawai on the
Thunder, And so I think that gave the Thunder a unique form of leverage.
And also just like it's not over yet for it's over for the Lakers,
and I think like there's a finality there. It's not we don't know
what's going on with Kawai fully long term. With the Clippers, it's not
over yet for them. And so I this is like kind of a compound
answer, but I would give a definitive if I'm the Lakers, would I
do it all over again? I absolutely would, because I don't care what
you say about the bubble title. It resulted in another banner. Yeah,
yeah, keeps it easy. I'm glad you're answering this one first. This
is from Nugs. Would you rather have Bruce Brown or MPG if you have
to make the choice for the Nuggets team, Michael Porter Junior is less mission
critical to them than Bruce Brown. That is just it's in a vacuum.
Like the health concerns with Michael Porter Junior. Two, he's dealing with some
heel stuff at the moment, and it was clearly bothering him before that.
I think they just said it was building up and he was shooting. He
went from shooting like a trillion percent from three to like a negative trillion percent,
So clearly something was bothering him. But you could actually run I don't
know that. You don't want him setting up like live dribble possessions, but
you can run the offense through Bruce Brown. He is like he's hit some
like really nice runners and floaters this year. He can be used as a
screener. He's hit his threes for the most part. There's these ultra wide
open threes. When you look at the Nuggets having Jamal having Jamal dr Murray,
Jamal Murray, Nicole Yokich, Bonet Island, even this version of Aaron
Gordon, Like, holy shit, I would Bruce Brown is more important than
Uggets winning a title this year than Michael Porter Junior. And I don't think
that's spicy. Now in a vacuum, would I rather have Michael Porter j
Bruce Brown The idea of Michael Porter junior easily, but given his availability,
the fact that we haven't seen and this might be just a function of the
roster, but like, we don't really know what he is as a self
creator, let alone a table setter for others. There's been some tantalizing defense
too, like from a help perspective when you look at the plays that he
can make coming over around the basket. But if you're trying to win a
title this season and you have Nicole Yokes and Jamal Murray, like, Bruce
Brown might be my answer here. I hate this question. I think I
think the best version of Porter is a guy that is going to score thirty
a game and make like forty something percent of a ridiculous volume of threes.
But I also think that that version probably doesn't exist on this Nuggets team,
like he might be someone that on a war team could just go get like
if he's on the Wizards instead of Beal for example, or something like that,
or on the I don't know the Bulls instead of Zach Lavine and he
gets like that level of usage that many shots. I think, like,
that's a really valuable player. But then you've got the cost, You've got
the injury history, you've got the current injury, and really, I guess
I have to come around and agree with you that if Brown is if this
is really, if this is Bruce Brown, like for real, Like you
know that's gonna get you double figure scoring five and five, make his threes,
defend multiple positions, be usable like on the ball, either roller,
like that's still in the bag, you know from his next days. Yeah,
man, because again, let's let's do let's go back to the same
theme. Like I don't see Bruce Brown getting played off the floor in a
final series. I was about to ask you that though, is it more
likely that Bruce Brown gets played on the floor of Michael Porter Junior because they
are Bruce Brown's playoff offense is just something that's sort of like the Nets have
not made maybe I'm just like blanking on the twenty twenty playoff run, Like,
like they haven't made like this super deep playoff push with Bruce Brown his
mission, So there is like questions on how his offense to me might hold
up in the postseason. That's the thing. I think he's better now than
he's ever been. So it's like, is this for real? He's I
think this is age twenty sixth season, so like, yeah, maybe this
is just Bruce Brown is only twenty six. This is just he's peaking.
Wow. So well, now they're gonna make me check that. I'm pretty
sure. But if you're right, he might be a future all I'm just
kidding about the So yeah, I guess my right. My risk A version
says MPJ, the ceiling is really high. But we've talked a lot.
I've talked a lot about floors and ceilings, but like, his ceiling is
high, but is he gonna reach it because of health and because of role
and because of team context where Bruce Brown can just if Bruce Brown could just
do this, I mean he's already playing slightly more minutes per game than MPJ.
Like, I mean, that's why I hate this question. I feel
like this is one we're going to look back on when Porter juniors made like
six All Star Games. But feel stupid, But I freaking love this question.
Actually, it's probably it's I do think it's probably a tougher question to
answer from the Nuggets perspective than a lot of other teams who I do feel
would still fault to. And the contract was a good point, by the
way, because it's not just the investment you have an MPJ, but how
cheap Bruce Brown Junior. Right, let's see, I'll throw you this one.
This is from Bondam thirty four. Assuming yokich An embiad or all NBA
centers and Anthony Davis makes second team or first as a forward, who's the
third team center? So basically, who's the third best center in the league
right now after yokich An embiid So I'm going by the play by play data
here the answer of Pascal Siakam. Oh, that's such a cheating answer.
I hate that he's been better than everybody else, But I would say it's
it has to be Bam after that. No, I mean it has the
Rudy Gobert town stuff. I like, I Gobert's been fine, but they're
trying to do more stuff with him offensively and it doesn't really always look great.
He's been able to prop up their defense on a lot of the times
for minute they had, like they've actually climbed the ranks. If you looked
at where they are in defense lately, they're actually get where they second or
something like, they're great when he's on the floor, like right and they're
they're Oh no, I was looking at just on the floor. Yeah,
they're they're down to fourteenth in defensive efficiency, So excuse me. I don't
know why I thought they were a second, but yeah, it's it's it
like who else is in that conversation. So just like estimated plus minus and
some other stuff we've I think brook Lopez is someone that's gonna have a case,
especially with all the defensive player of the Year buzz that he's getting,
and he's on a great team and everyone on that team won't shut up about
there's really a center that's no. If you're asking me who I would want,
I think like the logical answer is bam. Even though like a lot
of the advanced numbers don't like him. I just think it's like if you
had to just pick someone, it's got to be Bam. But Lopez as
a case, I mean, like everyone in Sacramento is gonna say, well,
Sabonis is like eighteen eleven and six and the King's offense is great,
Like miss me with the Sabonis stuff. Who that felt like you unnecessary straight,
like you don't have to insult him, will not call him the third
best side in the league right now? I mentioned so yeah, but look
so that you mentioned Gobert, I think, uh else, just so I
touched the other side of the opposite of someone catching a straight. I think
Jared Allen, you know, if he gets healthy and is playing, it
is probably someone you're gonna want to think minutes get ratcheted up. No,
I think I think for me it's somewhere between Lopez and Autobio. But I
lean auto Bio Gobert would have been a pretty easy answer like most years before
this one, just if you're looking at like defensive impact and all this other
stuff. But I think I don't think. I don't think we're there yet
this year. If that happens, I'm going to leap froud to a question
because I think this question was was made for you, and it comes from
Tibo wings Ban been thinking about the Dubs and how the defense had been what
puts them over the top. Only caring about sixteen playoff wins for Klay during
twenty fifteen to twenty nineteen, where would you have put him on a list
of the top ten total defensive value of all players for that five year stretch,
not including centers and for whatever your answer is, what percent of that
defender do you think is reasonable to expect from current Clay? So Clay is
one of the hardest defensive players to evaluate because none of the numbers have ever
liked him like you just have. It's basically a watch the game's argument,
which always sucks because it makes it seem like you want to be subject to
the bias of everything. But so, just for example, like he's never
ever had consistently been a high steels guy, like just doesn't get steals.
He's never once had a positive defensive box plus minus, which is really fucking
hard to do when you're on a lot of defenses that are top five and
sometimes number one. I mean that filters out for who you're out there with.
But like the numbers just don't the numbers say he's a bad defender,
which which isn't the case. I think the way you make the case for
him beat so he's not like a top ten defensive player at any stretch.
I don't think of the years in question of like fifteen nineteen just objectively in
terms of like his value to the specific situation he was in. Like that's
where you make the argument that he's really vital because for years and years he
would guard Tony Parker when the Warriors were always trying to beat the Spurs right
and Steph couldn't do that or wouldn't do that, wasn't asked to do that.
And then against the Calves, it was really common to see him stand
up Kevin Love in the post. So he was kind of the like Draymond
puts out all the fires on that defense, especially when they were really great,
but Clay was kind of second in that effort. Andrew Bogit deserves credit
too, especially early on, but Clay could be asked to defend four positions
and do it pretty well sctacularly, but he would cover for guys that couldn't
guard the positions that they should have been able to or would normally have been
asked to. And he also was just solid, like just was where he
was supposed to be, wouldn't make a ton of mistakes. But like,
I think probably if anyone's even thinking about him as a top ten defender at
any stretch from fifteen to nineteen, like, I don't think you're I can't
get there independent of big men too. Yeah, No, I think even
if you're, well, maybe if you're just talking wings, even that's just
like you've got to you can't lean on the numbers because he was a bad
defender statistically. I think I was gonna saying. The thing with that is
just like and you laid all this out, like being able to tell him
to just go guard the point of attack. His defensive metrics would be better
if he grabbed rebounds, which was just that was not a focus of his
because he was spending so much time in these tough perimeter recovers. And when
you're having those tough perimeter recovers, it's almost hard to get steals because all
of your steals have to come like outside the passing lane then like or you're
not stumbling into lose balls. And so I actually think that he you know,
this wasn't the Avery Bradley paradox. I actually think that Klay Thompson was
underrated defensively, not top ten during that time. I honestly, I don't
know, but I almost felt like you were just telling him short there,
like in terms of perimeter defenders. Here's what I'd say. I'd say,
I think the best way to measure like the real value of a player is
can he be an important piece of a team that is playing at like a
really high level and against different types of teams that are gonna try to that
are gonna try to go at you with mismatches of either smaller guys or bigger
guys. And he held up. He did everything that was asked of him,
And so I think that's really valuable because there's just a lot of guys
that, you know, that are probably better physical defenders than him, that
just wouldn't do that. You know that It's like I'm just gonna guard a
wing. You know, I'm not chasing. I'm not chasing. Like Tony
Parker at his peak was like, there aren't a lot of guys that are
harder to stay with in a half court set. When Tim Duncan is setting
a screen, it's just like that's a hell of a job, and he
spared Curry from that, and like that's valuable. That's a specific example,
but it's illustrative of like what he did. So I just I don't know
how to rank that. I know that, I know that the Warrior's defense
would not have been nearly as good without him, but I don't I just
like, how do you how do you rank a guy in the top ten
of something? It's hard. I don't know. It's it's so context dependent.
I definitely never remember thinking to kind of tie into the second part of
this question, Oh man, he got burned there, or like he that's
maybe not a matchup for him. I don't remember thinking that. Even when
he's guarding ones and fours this year, I think he's maybe seventy percent of
like what he was before, and there are nights where it's like, I
don't know what the percentage is, it's just like half because he just can't
He's had nights where and like, yeah, if I tore my achilles in
my acl like I would be having a hard time staying in front of the
best athletes in the world. But he's he's definitely not that same guy.
Now. I think the main thing is he's moved up the positional spectrum where
now it's like some threes are too quick, fours are like it's better if
he gets to use his strength than his lateral mobility, because it's just not
it's not there. I do think he can still be part of a really
good defense, and I think the Warriors have been better and will be better
on that end of the floor. There's a long way to go for them
to be back to where they were, especially at the beginning of last year.
But he's just he's not going to be that guy. He's not going
to be someone you could throw out there on anyone but a center and feel
like we don't need to worry about that those days are I don't think we're
that. That's what Andrew Wiggins is for. He's ever more valuable defensively again
than Andrew Wiggins never, No, I mean, Wiggins is a great defensive
player, like just you know, I've been saying that in twenty nineteen,
right right. The fact of that where Wiggins is today is what keeps me
from like giving up on almost anybody in their first like handful of seasons on
a bad team just because you never would like Wiggins as like the perfect three
and D role player that can get you a bucket when you need it,
but doesn't shoot that like that was just unfathomable in the early years of Wiggins.
I can I ask you this question about Draymond Green too, just because
I was hoping you would, because this is a really fun question. Glad
asked, if you were an MBAGM, what is the highest draft pick you
would use on a player that would be guaranteed to have Draymond Green's career.
To clarify, I don't mean the titles are guaranteed, but like essentially all
the things drey brings to the table as a player, rebounding, passing,
leadership, until he punched pool energy, knowing he will essentially be an All
NBA defender for seven plus years, dpoy, etc. So what's the highest
pick you would use? Glass said he would definitely use a lottery pick,
but he wasn't sure if he could use a top five. They could use
a top five pick on him. So if we just put aside all the
questions we always have to ask about Draymond, you know, would you do
this if it weren't the Warriors and if he didn't have Steph Curry, we
can put that aside and just look at the drafts around him. So I'm
going top five minimum, and that's just based on I've just looked. I
scanned the drafts he's starting from twenty ten to twenty fifteen. He was picked
in twenty twelve, he came off the board thirty fifth, So in twenty
ten, I think the only guy you take over him is Paul George that
I'd even have a discussion about. Twenty eleven, you take Kawhi over him.
You probably take Jimmy Butler, you probably take Kyrie, and then Clay.
I think as someone you probably take Draymond over But that's where we are.
So that's four guys. Twenty twelve, you take Anthony Davis, you
take Damian Lillard, Brad Beale, Chris Middleton, debatable next year, Jannis
for sure. Rudy Gobert is a really interesting one. I think I'd take
Draymond over Gobert. But that's it. Twenty fourteen, mbiad and Yokich,
that's it. Twenty fifteen Booker, and then it's like towns in porzingis probably
not so like you're top five for all those and that's you know, a
couple of years before and several after. I think Draymond has had better career,
a better career than a lot of those guys, and it's certainly one
more than all of them. So I don't know. I mean, it's
a top five for me. You can't take him first because he can't be
the best player on your team. But other than that, like, I
don't know what you're hoping to get out of the draft. You know,
everybody wants the thirty points per game, first option scorer, but you know,
other than that, I don't know what you'd what you'd prioritize more than
a guy that could be the anchor of a playoff defense, you know for
ten years. That's that's tough to top. I think top five would be
pretty easy. Does it get like difficult for you when you're talking top three
or you know, top one, like if you're guaranteed because Draymond is like
the engine of your entire team, it's really just the offensive question is what
do you envision Draymond being offensively independent of the Warriors? And like I said,
I'm with you. I would use a top five pick without even thinking
on someone who guaranteed to have Draymond Green's career. I think Curry is such
as a unique player, and I don't think it's realistic to say that Green
would have developed the level of chemistry and for it to have been as effective
as it's been with Curry with literally anyone else in the history of the sport.
Like Curry is just the guy for him to play with, and I
think Green would have figured out how to make some other star better. But
it's just it's a it's sort of a lightning in a bottle situation that he
got to come to the Warriors and play with Curry because offensively, like you
can throw him on one of those rockets teams instead of PJ. Tucker right
with Harden, Like you're just not guarding him in the corner. So what's
he doing. He's not playing pick and roll with Harden because they just wanted
to io. So there's just like there's all these uncertainties, but depending on
the situation, like yeah, the top two or three, but like top
five is is like not a not a question for me at all. I
do wonder I'd have to go look back where I had him when if I
was still doing NBA one hundred at that time, but twenty fifteen, twenty
sixteen, like that Draymond Green, there was an argument of is he a
top ten player? And like that was an actual that that singular year or
two years stretch, Yeah, that was an actual question. Well that's the
year he shot thirty eight percent from three. Yeah, that's happened once.
So so that guy, Yeah, that guy was a top ten player,
I think. But it's just you know this, it's he's is he the
most context dependent player? Like not taking away like he would have been very
good to great anywhere I think if he'd gotten an opportunity to play, but
even like his skill set is so unusual, Like where else is he going
to get the agency and the use and the touches and all, Like he's
a really valuable offensive player even though he's just not a shooter, Like that's
I don't know where else he gets that chance. Let's see, what do
we have another one for you? Okay, I got one more? I
think last one for you, dark Wing Duck, right, dark Wing Duck,
My guy, this is Darkling Duck coming with the tough ones. Yeah,
he wants this is he's they're treating this like we had forty hours to
add for this. You go call up Kevin Pelton and Seth partner for this
one and give him like a full day to work on it. What is
the biggest drop in a player's field goal percentage and three point percentage due to
miss heaves over a season minimum thanks for the filter, minimum one hundred three
point attempts in the season. And do NBA players Part two? Really?
Do NBA players really worry about it enough to be the reason they don't heave?
Thank god you did some a little bit of research on part one,
But I do have a thought on part two. So, well, floor
is your Seth partner? Yeah, so I tried. I did try to
actually find the answer to this question. But there's no way for me to
like, yeah, if I got into like filtering, setting up a cold
for like to filter it right into a spreadsheet, which I just don't have
the time to do or to figure out how to do. But it wasn't
available like together where the total attempts versus like, so I would have just
taken too much. It would have taken too much, like work for a
male. Bad question. My opinion, these are supposed to be like more
like that off the cough. We do do research for them, but I
did look. Steph Curry owns the record at least since which shot finder since
ninety six ninety seven on the number of heaves taken in a single season.
In twenty sixteen twenty seventeen, he took fifteen heaves and he made only one.
And so you're talking about that's okay, Yes it's six point seven percent,
which sounds just so bad, but like you're fourteen misses caked into his
three point percentage that year, he was still over forty one percent, and
so you're not looking at something that would meaningfully change his shot percentage. If
you're wondering who there's also there's definitely some sort of wrong code here, by
the way, for basketball reags, because shot Finder, it's coming up that
Kris Stops, Denny, Avvia, Kyle Kuzma, Will Barton have all hit
multiple heaves this year, which is just not true, and that Chris Stops,
Denny and Kuzma specifically are three of five on heaves for the season.
So I didn't include that. But the most recent person to hit multiple heaves
in a season before this year Marco Bell and Elli in twenty ten, twenty
eleven hit was two of two on heaves. I want to see. Sorry,
I was starting my field goal percentage rate. Steph Curry hit multiple heaves
in twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, Soda Vince Carter, but just randomly in
twenty I found that interesting ten twenty eleven, Marco Bell and Nelly went two
of two on heaves apparently. So the answer of the second part is they
absolutely think about it, and you see it in real time develop Some players
really don't give a shit, And I think I understand why players would second
guest, especially if you're a non star. But like we as podcasters,
we as media members, fans, we as fans, like we're filtering out
heaves now, like we're like teams are smart enough to where if they're if
they come to you in a meeting and saying, well, we're not gonna
give you eight point seven million, we're not gonna give you the mid level,
We'll give you a million dollars less because you only shot thirty eight percent
from three last year, and like if you filter out the fourteen heaves that
you miss, like that brought it up to thirty nine, Like I just
they absolutely think about it, So I get it. But also we should
be beyond the point like they're they're a separate form of data, and I
would campaign for well to make it even more accessible or more obvious, because
the fans shouldn't have to do the leg work on this is when you're actually
looking at a player's three point percentage? Can the heaves just not be included?
And then you get into the will? Then should the last second shot
clock ones and they half court be included? I get that, there's like
some complications there. I think in the half court everything just needs to be
fair. You had twenty four seconds, figure out what the hell you were
doing. You weren't under the actual limitations of oh, there's only point five
seconds left on the entire clock. Yeah, I think you could just fix
that by just let's like talk about the rain, like you know, NBA
dot Com sorts by you know, you get your twenty five to twenty nine
feet, you're thirty to third whatever, Like we just talked about that.
At anytime it's over forty, we could or fifty, we could just assume
it's a heave and just not count it. Players absolutely do hold the ball
and like feign an attempt after the buzzer goes off or other things. But
like whenever we talk about something like this and this is the thing, we
can filter it out. But contracts have incentives for certain three point percentages.
In mohark list, do you remember this in twenty seventeen, had a five
hundred thousand dollars incentive if he made thirty five percent of his threes and he
got to thirty five point one percent and did not shoot at three in the
last game of the season, like purposely was avoiding like stepping in like I
think, always good for him money, But I'm just saying, like that's
that's maybe something we want to look at a little more, like, hey,
team, if he's a X percent, let's like not incentivize him to
take like to change his shot profile down the stretch of the season. Like
that's a little I don't I'm not cool with that. But yeah, like
just watch literally any game, Like guys will just not heave it every at
the end of every quarter game. It just doesn't happen. They always duck,
they always duck it. It's like, I don't know, I don't
know, you're like, do you care about your numbers? I guess I
have this anecdote. Do you know who the leader on b ball refs shot
funders says in career since again, only since ninety six ninety seven, who's
made the most in the NBA during that almost three decades? Ban heaves Andre
Drummond. No, that was I'm not the where you were gonna go with
that, guess. I mean, Steph's the obvious answer, but it's not
him or you hied for second with Jason Kidd and Dwayne Wade. Oh,
Dwayne Wade. You know what I can picture Dwayne Wade always chucking it and
just this season apparently Danny Ava and Kyle Kuzma and Christos Porzincas have ambled their
way into the top ten all time. And you're gonna break records the Wizards
Zach Randolph with five, Oh, Zach Zach Randolph five of thirty seven on
heaves for a thirteen point five percent clip. Some people, some people would
kill to shoot from that from the three point line. If you're wondering who
has the most attempts, I feel like you're not gonna get it either.
Steph Curry. Second, Yeah, I was gonna say, Steph just I
could picture him taking a lot of heaps because he expects to make him good
friend. And you know what, I respect him a ton for that.
Yeah, Andre Miller one hundred and thirteen heaves. Steph Curry is in second
with eighty six, and those two were the hen shoulders above like Steve Blake.
Third at sixty four Ray and fourth at sixty one Jamal Crawford at fifty
nine. Ray Felton comes in the top seven. Good for Ray Felton.
So oh man, good heave talk. I always like to I imagine Andre
Miller doing a heave somehow right after he fakes the time out and then drives
the basket and gets a free lay up, which is his other thing he
always did. I was surprised that Jared Jack wasn't on here, but I
guess just the meme wasn't indicative of his his shot selection where he's always to
hit him off, like throws it over that hoop in that Nikes game.
That's right, Yeah, that's gonna go. That'll be remembered forever as maybe
that's why he shouldn't take keeps or he should take him from farther. I
think it's probably I think that's it. Unless you got anything else, I'll
take us out. Thank you everybody for listening and for your questions too.
We loved I really like doing these mail bags. I think Dan feels the
same. So engage with us. Get on discord. I did it.
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In closing, even though I shouted him out and said a nice thing about
him, I would like to apologize to Jared Allen and I'll be half of
Dan. Just want to celebrate the one and only greatest human alive that has
ever lived. And still can't get on the floor, but someday will and
justice will be served. Frank Millikina