Yo, somebody talks TV new meddle add a strong style fab Son, you're
gonna ring the ball water you go over the top like talking about Slone.
It's the laps fan man number one in the ring. Forget about Osada with
a real king of swing when the bell goes hang and the kick like men
throon in the corner with its rash like stick. Even Jerry King and sake
off the crowd nodded in his head like a Teve low Brown were getting low
down, goat even higher, flipping you on your head. But you're no
cool driver sitting morenage and dragon spits fire. Give you more shot than when
their tree tires dropping more truth than the con of sniper. Bless you with
a coconut Roddy Piper jacking JP he like j y d drop the cupcakes and
got the brain. Bove means the best podcast from the start to close.
Cloud If y'all benefit this flass about time as we look out onto sunny shores
and deep humidity. Boss, are you ready yes? If you love the
sun? I hate summer. I hate it. I hate it, okay
more than any summer. What a bummer thing. It's it's the worst.
It's so it's so hot. I I you know, like the my daily
schedule is completely thrown out the window. It's it's miserable. It's the worst,
Like I got no time to do anything because I'm driving everywhere and going
to fucking you know, low end theme parks and shit like that. It's
so true, like people act like summer is a time of leisure, and
I guess if you have enough money, it is. But for the most
part, for most of us, yeah, if you got enough money that
you don't have to take your kids with you and you have them like in
a kennel, right for for for a couple of weeks. Yeah, it's
a vacation, right, or you have somebody who has their own house and
the property take care of the kids and white polos or whatever. But for
most of us it is twelve times yes, the packed schedule it is.
It's summer. What the fuck are you doing about it? It's summer.
Are you gonna make it worth it? Are you gonna make it picturesque?
Or are you just gonna sit in the ac like some kind of loser.
Right, that's I'll ac loser, right, And that's where that's where we
naturally want to go, but Summer says, no, you suck. If
you do that, get out there and suffer, right, Get out there
and suffer. No, and do it in a tank top please? Yeah,
right, exactly. And there are a lot of things I love about
Summer, but I know it's a trigger word for you, so I hate
it. This is our Summer twenty twenty four mail bag, folks, plenty
of mail and feedback from the best listenership in all of podcasting. It's been
piling up as we've been casting pretty long and pretty hard about all manner of
subjects. The random draws, if you will, in terms of the shows
we've been picking, have taken us on some and I've seen some question as
to how the like how if they're truly random? They are truly random,
I swear to God random. The question is, if we wanted to have
this kind of serendipity, we just wouldn't draw the shows at random. We
just put whatever shows we wanted to exactly why the pretense of pretending to do
a draw. If we want to pick the shows, we still sit in
control, yes, but it's it's it's been remarkable how how much alignment there
has been with what is sort of you know, in the air, in
the atmosphere, in the wrestling discourse. At the same time, we pick
a show like Agreed at the tail end at the four part Vice WCW series,
and it's like this is this is really strange. And of course,
as we announced at the tail end of the show, if we haven't made
it all the way through greed yet living dangerously two thousand ECW style with dusty
roads still squarely, it's great in focus somehow some way coming next. Fucking
keep me, keep me happy. Yeah, I think it wasn't too long
ago that I insisted you add ECW to that little hat you have. It
wasn't even awesome. It wasn't an insistence. It was just a you mentioned
it, and I was like, all right, and I guess I should
do that. And now I regret it. So we're going to keep doing
this the paye. It will continue a pace. It's working really well,
but we are no, no, we are starting to feel that itch to
bring back the traditional hopper. It's it's starting to present itself. Will it
spread? How quickly will it spread? Well? We need calamine lotion.
Those things still to be determined. Here to be determined, but keep your
keep your hand on your wallets, okay, because the time might come when
we're done just you know, drawing names ourselves and it's time to go back
to the Solar System and get them in the spot because it's been too long.
And in that spirit, here on the Feedback Show, we're going to
mix it up a bit. It's not just going to be your written letters
via of course Patreon and the lapsed fan at gmail dot com. How about
some real time feedback? How about it? The heavyweight Champion of TLF Solar
System members, Tom is back in the spot because Tom started corresponding with us
as we rolled out our TLF tackles who killed WCW series and goddamn did he
have some shit to say And we tuched some of it in Tom and we
talked a little bit about it. But I just want a table whatever you've
got on your mind, because there's really a lot to think about now that
that series is in the books and everyone's had their say and had their crack
and we've done the interviews and stuff and did greed. Where are you at?
What do you feel needs to be said holistically about this? This resurgence
of discussion about WCW's demise. Yeah, thanks for having me. First of
all, I really do appreciate. This is really annoyed me in a weird
way, Like I think part of it is this is kind of righting my
wheelhouse and then my backgrounds in history. It's been twenty four years or whatever,
twenty three years since the end of WCW, so you can actually start
to talk about these things historically. I've worked in the TV and film business
for a long time, and I really do think this is a TV story
in the end, and beyond that, you can also, as you know,
as the stuff becomes like longer than two, you can start to revise
history. And I think there's a lot of revisionism going on about like the
death of w CW and especially sort of like this push that I think and
I don't. I think the show is actually pretty good. I think that
there's been some sort of like there's almost like real time revision going on about
the show, because I think people are like, oh, I thought you
were going to come to some real conclusion or have some sort of you know,
big reveal at the end of the fourth episode, like Seagull was gonna
be like, yeah, it was me all along, or like sort of
in a Vince way, Can I stop you there? Because this is becoming
a real pet peeve of mine. On documentaries, It's never going to happen.
You're never going to get that, with the exception of whatever that show
was, and god damn it, I always forget the HBO series with the
murderer at the end who walks into the other walks into in the bathroom that
he killed or or whatever. Right right, that has what you're looking for,
But most people that seem to want this out of shows didn't see that.
The thing is, I feel like, you know, if you know,
if I what what has happened? I feel I feel like is that
which the James there? Yeah, there have been there have been a number
of different you know, documentary forms of media. I say that what you
just talked about, as well as like that initial season of of what the
fuck is the show? Serial? You know where they have and even there's
this show this this this true crime podcast that my wife and I listened to
on a on a long drive one time that was like, you know,
there was some kind of you know change, it caused some kind of change.
That ship's rare. It's so rare. And the thing is the reason
why they become so popular is because they're rare because something this like in the
midst of millions of documentaries that are produced on a on thousands of subjects,
this one actually came to a true conclusion, whereas most documentaries, unless you're
doing some kind of historical one, they don't come to a new conclusion because
you know, the likelihood of that is is very very rare. The story
is being you know, revisited, it's not being reinvestigated, right, and
that that's but there seems to be like this appetite for documentaries to have a
twist ending, like of course a non documentary film, Well, now that
you've done it, now that you've now that that people now that it's actually
happened, you know, now people like you need to do that. You
need to have some sort of history cloaking down or some kind of weird closure
at the end that that that you know, remained satisfying, which it isn't.
You know, It's it's annoying to me because it's people running away from
the fact that life is never that satisfactory in terms of the explanations. Of
course, no matter if we know this that that that's a testament to the
length of our catalog. Like no matter how how many hours we spend and
how many rocks we overturn, and how diligent you can be about answering the
unanswerable questions. You know, it's it is not a failure if you don't
satisfy your own hopes and dreams as to what really is going on in a
situation. You know, people start rooting for outcomes. That's true. Yeah,
absolutely, And I think that that this was a really like to be
honest, like, if you want a fairly enjoyable I don't know, three
and a half four hour oral history of the last days of w CW,
watch the Vice Show. It's pretty good, like I mean in that regard,
you know, and I think that the thing is is that it also
but there are limits of oral history too, Like everybody there has an agenda.
There's only so many as you know, was gone over over and over
again in through your interviews. There's only so many minutes that they can cut
together, you know, how long long as nash on that you're seventeen minutes
and most, which is a lot by the way, if you're if you're
you know, over three and a half hours. But it's like we're not
gonna get not enough, of course you're not, you know, like,
but I will say with that said, and I know it's like everybody accuses
me constantly of sort of kissing your guys ass. This is not this is
not hard. Let's do it well. But look, there is the death
of w CW is in the archives. You can go to I dis I
did over the as the this you know developed or went over the last few
weeks, I've been listening to all the WCW episodes from basically Hogan on in
order and if once you get past starkad ninety seven and like how the nWo
should have ended and all the stuff that you guys did there, once you
get into ninety eight, you can get a pretty good sense of how WCW
died totally by one. And you guys are trying and look, advice,
advice can't do this. This is like hours and hours and hundreds of hours
of podcasting right to try and triangulate all these different sources, all the lies
that these people have told and be like, all right, well here you're
saying this, But here you're saying this, and now you're saying that Meltzer's
an idiot. But here you're talking to Meltzer and giving him your whole plan.
So which is it? You know what I mean? Like, you
guys are triangulating all this stuff, and I think Greed, funnily enough,
really actually brought some conclusions that I had not I you know, I had
not thought of before into the light. I e. I think that WCW,
the entity died, not the television show Nitro. That's different. The
ENTITYWW died in those last two months when Eric could not communicate to the people
at Turner that he had to deal with that he had an actual plan to
relaunch this show. I think that that was the where that was, honestly,
the final death knell happens between January when they signed that agreement in March
when they're like, holy shit, I don't think this guy has a plan
and I don't necessarily trust that there's enough money here for them to keep this
going. And as part of this deal, part of the insanity of this
deal, we are giving over to this company ten years of guaranteed programming on
Wednesday Night that has nothing. By the way, that that contract did not
specify wrestling. They could put anything they wanted there. That's what Brian Dala
said. Yep. Yeah, So if that dies, if WCW dies in
two years and Badal could be like, hey, we're gonna put this thing
that we're developing, this you got to put it on. I mean,
he could have done whatever he wanted till twenty eleven, you know what I
mean. So I think that when you put it in that context, and
that was really done with greed, Like I think that you guys really got
even more than the last night. There was other stuff that came out and
greed and sort of the interviews around the last episode and stuff where I was
like, oh, that's interesting that the entity itself and I'm not this is
not really blaming Bischoff. It's like, this is just but I just don't
think. I think, honestly, the level that Bischoff is put on is
that he was actually a competitor to Vince mcmam. And we can make fun
like Vince was not a competitor to Ted Turner, that joke that like he
was like competing with Turner, but he also was not competing with Eric.
He wasn't. Eric was a show runner of a show that was fairly successful
for three years and then was not successful in his last year as the showrunner
of the show. Like most show in the history of television, right exactly,
And if you'd taken into Accounty show, every show that got canceled but
was a hit at one point has the exact same story. That's WW It's
no different than television, Joe, exactly, every television show. I don't
understand why wcw' and I've said that is not treated as a wholly owned television
production company by Turner Vince McMahon's WWE, which he I think Vince understood from
nineteen eighty five on, from after the MTV debacle and trying to find and
then when he makes the deal with NBC and stuff, I think that he
understood that at its heart, yes, he was a wrestling company, sure,
and he had the merchandise and house shows, et cetera. But at
its heart, when he went national, he was an independent television production company
and he was selling his television show. And to this day, to this
even though they are now you know, owned by different a different ents,
t they are selling their television property. And yeah, the money's different.
I e. Now all their money is guaranteed money, and back then they
weren't really getting paid a lot of money to produce the television show. They
were, you know, doing the fifty to fifty deal with advertising, et
cetera. But in the end, that's what Vince understood and Eric never did
period. And I think that that's the real story here, is that these
are just television companies. They're different, and that's it. Like I mean,
it sounds like I know that we want to make wrestling. That sound
like wrestling is different. But in the end, it's from an executive standpoint,
and I believe me, I've felt with a lot of television executives.
I don't exactly love a lot of them. However, with that said,
I can understand where they are coming from here. In every way, there
is no world where you could possibly argue the WCW should have been on the
air past nineteen ninety three, and then when it was saved by Turner,
fine, But when there's Turner's not there and so you don't have an executive
who's in your corner, there's no world where you can keep WCW on the
air legitimately into two thousand. You just can't. The ratings are really falling
off and there's no money there. And I think that part of my issue
with all this is it comes back to like two things. It's like and
and sort of howes cable television worked, I think is like an important thing
to understand in nineties television. Nineties cable television, obviously, commercials were still
the most important way selling. Advertising was still the number one way in which
these channels made money. And so that's where you get the comments about the
demo and all that BS and the and hey, the demo absolutely mattered.
Then. It doesn't matter as much as it does now, but it did
matter a tremendous amount then for sure. And the demo they were getting the
demo fairly well. However, if you look at when WWF was getting super
hot, well, who was their main advertisers. Let's say Snickers, the
Stride, step ware, d Yeah, these types of things. It wasn't,
you know, it wasn't. They were not getting high end luxury items
cars, mid level clothing like mall clothing at the time, Gap and Anna
Republic, et cetera, Old Navy even they weren't getting those orange juice,
Like orange juice is huge, Like orange juice is considered a luxury item.
So if you can get orange juice to advertise in your you know, to
buy thirty seconds during your show, that's considered a good thing. Well,
to be fair, I mean, Kevinak told us this, they did try
to get oj that's true. But the with that, like, but the
other way that they made money and how they started making a lot of money
and what became the most important thing by the time, like TNA was around,
was carriage fees. So yes, that's paying you to have their exactly
to be able to add Yeah, and that's where the rating whatever it is,
how many people are watching is the only thing that matters. I e.
If three million people are watching and three million of them are over fifty
five, they don't care. They're paying more for that because they want to
know that those people will remain subscribed to cable and that's really all it.
So that's you know, they pronounce path the day there is cable company,
right, So in other words, like you know that that's why in the
seventies eighties, Turner's one of them, there were these multimillionaires made in local
cable because there's this proposition all of a sudden where it's like, wait a
minute, yeah, we do have to pay TNT a carriage fee to be
able to carry their signal, but we can charge people so much more for
cable than we have to pay. Yes, yes, yes, sorry,
And you start bundling all that together and giving people no choice but to buy
the whole bundle. If you want an ESPN, you need a million other
channels you're never gonna watch, And people, for their whole lives have wondered,
why the fuck do I have all these channels that I don't want and
why that's why carriage fees, carriage fees, carriage fees. Everyone wants a
taste, and it's like, you know they're carriage fees exploded in the two
thousands, Like that's really and that's why you got like you went from having
sixty seventy eighty channels in nineteen ninety nine to five hundred channels by two thousand
and six because cable companilies were just willing to pay anybody that put content together.
Because you could argue that even if it's an extremely limited audience, it's
the kind of audience that will stay subscribed to cable and so let's to matter.
And again that's to this day when people will be like, oh,
the majority of the people that watch Raw fifty years old or fifty five,
whatever it is, it does not matter to them from a carriage for USA.
For the reason why USA was like, oh fuck, we're losing Raw
while we're buying spacked out because to them it's worth it because they could not
lose wrestling. That's really one of the few things left that people watch on
USA on traditional on traditional cable consistently and therefore and they can still get their
carriage fee, which has been cut in half. I mean even you know
all the whenever you don't have a channel, all of a sudden, it's
a it's a negotiation about carriage fees. Right when you see the Crawler.
When you see the Crawler, like DirecTV is going to stop carrying this local
affiliate, or you're not going to be able to see the NFL this year,
that's all that is. That's we want to pay we want to pay
less. The cable company wants to pay the provider less than they used to
for the programming, and the person who provides the programming has to tell themselves
that it's worth as much, if not more than it ever has been worth.
So they go to the mat every time, and they always make up
in the end, because the cable company or the satellite company is going to
lose a hell of a lot more if they actually don't carry the NFL,
for instance, or actually don't carry fuck your local news. So and the
content provider knows that. So it's just a game of chicken, you know,
it's just like where's this going to come out in the wash? We
both have to pretend we can't afford it. We both have to pretend we're
insulted by the offer. We both have to mobilize the customer to get all
paranoid and scared that they're going to lose this channel. But in the end,
you're going to lose a whole hell of a lot more if you actually
effectuate the severing of that tie. Then if you have been tripped again,
indeed, yes, and with that like a good example, that is like
Verizon dropped Access TV, so like t and that's why they've and a lot
of channels are a lot of cable priders, I should say, did if
I've dropped Access TV over the last two years, and that's why they've thrown
TNA onto the app, like their weekly show is now on the app,
in part because Access TV highest rating thing was in fact, what was New
Japan really, but it was wrestling that they couldn't sell adverts off of TNA
and New Japan that we're getting one hundred and fifty thou two hundred thousand viewers
that well, and they wanted twenty eight cents per customer, and Verizon was
like, we'll give you twenty two cents per customer, and they were like,
no, no, we can't know twenty eight and they were like,
no, that's our final offer. And in fact, because you didn't take
it, will just drop you. And no one is complaining that they don't
have Access TV because they're like, Okay, what do I lose here?
I lose some movies that I can now get on demand all the time,
and I lose you know, wrestling, and that's about it, you know
what I mean. So if I'm not in one, not one of the
very few. And that's why where from a carriage fee standpoint, your total
number matters a lot, and then wrestling it matters tremendously because in the end,
no matter how many times, like they would talk about like Raw or
sorry SmackDown, I should say one Friday nights often for Fox won the demo
won the total viewership, et cetera. If they wasn't sports on, they
pretty much were winning that. However, they got canceled. Let's be find
as you said the last time, actually, Jack, they got canceled.
They didn't get you know, oh no they're dropped. No, no,
they got canceled. They got canceled because they because Fox doesn't get any carriage
fees and cannot sell advertising based And it's not just that people don't watch other
stuff that watch wrestling, and they don't get carriage fees because they're a network
broadcast over their network, right their network exactly their network out broadcast over the
air, so they can't get carriage fees for it. So to be honest,
like the day they would talk about how wins the Backdown was on Fox
Sports one, the number would be pretty bad. In fact, aw was
beating them a lot of times when it would go to Fox Sports one.
However, the carriage fee, they would get a carriage fee for that week
that they covered it, and because Fox Sport which one, didn't have anything
that seven hundred thousand people were watching, they would argue that if we put
it on four times a year, you got to give us a bump of
this amount of sense because it is sense per customer to have that four times
a year, and we'll give it to you. We'll guarantee you four times
a year that if you you know, if you give us three more cents
per customer, and they did because Fox Sports one has a few other things
that people actually watch, and one night every three months they'll have wrestling that'll
jump up to seven hundred thousand people. So it's like so it's a real
and so cable system can say, okay, like, well, we'll pay
Fox Sports one three cents for every customer that subscribes to us, subscribes to
cable through us. And part of what makes that worth it is that four
times a year, the people that have us for cable are going to be
able to watch SmackDown. That's part right, And they'll come over to us,
and they'll come over to us, they'll remember the Fox Sports and what
they'll do, if you notice, they'll do a lot of local they'll do
a lot of they'll do a lot of advertising for whatever they actually have on
their network during those nights. They're not going to sell it. It's not
worth it to them to sell. It's always been the Achilles heel of wrestling.
The Achilles heel of wrestling is that even if it's the top rated show
on cable, which it was through the Attitude era and those salad days of
wcws talked about in the documentary, even if they're top on cable, they
were made number one on cable with the USA and Raw. They get to
your point in the tail end there or several of Fridays where there was no
competing sports, they could be the number one show on Friday night primetime and
all of television, all television. You can advertise every single show on Fox
that you have during SmackDown, you can advertise every single show burn notice all
that shit on USA during Raw wrestling. Fans don't give a fuck about these
shows. They don't give a fuck. It's not like selling Seinfeld during NFL
and it makes it worth the bajillion dollars you have to pay the NFL or
whoever the huge network hits over the years have been sold off of sports exactly.
Yeah, And I think that that's and so in this period that we're
talking about, right at the end of WCW's commercials were still adverts. Selling
average was still the most important part for cable for all television, but with
cable two carriage fees had not exploded as they did a few years later they
were about to. And I think that's there's a couple of things that I
think when you look at the number that WCW sold for one of the things
to remember that people kind of gloss over. They're like, how could it
go for like nothing? It's like, well, let's try to remember what
people were buying at that moment. They're like, oh, but they were
buying all the IP. Vince had bought up all this other IP before and
he couldn't take any advantage of it. And there was no way that you
could start a WCW channel in two thousand or two thousand and one and think
that anyone was going to watch the old stuff. They weren't go look at
time they would have the best of WTW on. During those periods, no
one watched. They got some of the worst ratings in cable and so there
was no way to kind of like monetize that stuff. And we're at a
point two. This is a little bit off track, but it ties into
the same thing where yes, DVDs are about to explode, but they aren't
exploding in March of two thousand and one. The highest DVD selling DVD player
in two thousand and one is the PlayStation and you can't get your hand the
PlayStation two. You can't get your hands on a PlayStation two. If you
remember, I'm sure you guys remember, at that time was very difficult to
find PlayStation two's that was considered not only the best DVD player at that moment
that you could buy commercial DVD player, it was also the hardest to get
a hands of, and it was the most it was the most installer base.
DVDs don't explode until two thousand and three. They peak in two thousand
and four and sort of plateau over the next course in the next five years
where they're selling an unbelievable amount, but until about the end of two thousand
and eight, Just like video business, it's exactly exact trajectory and you can't
so no one at WCW or at Turner, at that moment is going to
be like, oh, yeah, we got to hold onto the IP because
eventually we're gonna be able to sell these you know, old WCW shows for
nine dollars a pop or twenty dollars a pop if it's a Star Kade or
whatever, and people are gonna buy it. They can't. They're not thinking
in that way, like, oh, the IP itself was like you'll hear
like Flair be like I would have gotten five million dollars together, and what
would you have bought? You would have bought nothing. No one had any
interest in what they were Like, there weren't. I don't think there's this
huge line of buyers for this entity. At that point. It was really
really really damaged goods. And you could say it was damaged goods because of
the Turner exact. I'm fine with that, but at least admit that the
number of the time, while still probably really too low, probably wasn't that
low compared to everything else at that time, because it was very hard to
figure out who the hell was gonna monetize this because no one What were you
gonna do? Were you to sell figures based on when you had no show?
What were you gonna do. There was nothing to it. So I
think that that's like another issue that goes along with this, like the moment.
With this moment, there was just no You couldn't sell advertising on it.
And at that point the numbers had dropped so much that the carriage fees
weren't worth anything. You couldn't go so turn then think of Turner versus USA.
Even T and T had first run movies and as you were pointing out
when you were doing the ratings of their first run movies on Turner did really
well, extremely well. People for you know, think of it is like
this way is like DVDs were the time when people started really buying huge collections
of movies, right, I mean I don't know. I probably owned a
bunch of VHS's, but not like twenty movies on VHS, thirty movies.
I didn't own like hundreds of DVDs, which eventually I did. That wasn't
a thing. So you were still rental market and if you weren't renting the
movie, you were waiting until it came out on TV. And Turner had
stuff that the networks weren't showing. They were literally showing the first time that
you could see it besides PayTV, HBO, et cetera was on Turner,
so they had that, and they also had the MBA, which was doing
worse ratings admittedly game to game than Nitro, but a hotter property. During
the Jordan years, they could they could sell much higher end advertising off of
And yeah, they could go and get a good carriage fee based on just
being in business with what at that point was Michael Jordan. That was who.
They weren't in business with David Stern or whatever they were in business.
They could argue that they were in business with Michael Jordan, who was very,
very hot. So those they already they had really good programming that was
not WCW. So the idea that they were like, Okay, there's this
entity that we have and we've owned it, it's just a it's just another
show to them, and and the show can be canceled. And so yeah,
selling w CW is a different matter for sure, and who they sold
it to different matter for sure. And Yeah, as a wrestling fan or
whatever, I would have loved had WCW to continue to exist in some form
or come back in some form, not under Vince's ownership, because you know,
not under the monopoly. However, looking at it from a television business
standpoint, at that point, there's no world that you could justify keeping it
just none. It just didn't There was no value in it at all,
and there hadn't been for a while. And I think two of the things
that like, really I'm you know, and please feel free to cut me
off at any time. But you know, two of the things that really
like frustrated me were just these ideas that it was like, creative, you
know, is subjective. It's like, no, shit, creative is subjective.
Of course, it's subjective, like, but the creative was not suggest
like I think the outcome, the outcome is objective. Did anyone give a
shit? Did anyone give a shit? No? No, No one gave
a shit about your angles. They Randon Tartakoff, who ran NBC in the
eighties and who was always annoyed about Saturday Night's made event at a I saw
this recently that a USC before he passed away, he was at a USC,
you know, giving a USC talk and they were saying, oh,
you know, while you had all these hot hip shows, you were doing
Saved by the Bell, and you were doing Saturday Nights made event and all
this stuff, and he was like, hey, you know, he's like
look, he's like hey, in the end, the number is the number.
And that's what he was saying, is that as long as the Saturday
Night's made event, as long as saved by the Bell, as long as
the shows that he didn't necessarily love on his network were hot, we're getting
we're drawing the number to justify them. They stayed on the air period.
It didn't matter whether he liked them or not. That's why that's why ww
was so strong in the portfolio at a time when they had no support in
the corporate chain. Yet you know, Nitro just kept going, Yeah,
Bretziegel got it line. They played that clip of him on c Span or
whatever talking, you know, really defending wrestling in front of an audience or
an auditorium or whatever, of laughing television executives laughing at him because he's he
has no choice but to position wrestling favorably, because without those those numbers at
that time, he ain't shit, you know, he ain't shit in cable
JP. It reminds me a little bit of other shows where it's like,
you know, Seagull decries on on the series. You know how how pathological
the wrestlers are and how sort of unmanageable the cast of characters there were WCW
were from a you know, it almost like a talent relations standpoint. But
that's every TV show, right. It becomes a hit, and eventually the
stars become total head cases at the negotiating table. It's yeah, it's no
different. I mean, you know, there are so few there are so
few, uh, I mean, because it comes around, here's the thing,
it's such a it's funny. I'm actually I'm actually reading a significant amount
about this actually in preparation for next cinemat believe it or not, because it
all comes down to value and how somebody perceives their own value versus how somebody
else, you know. And and then but but the problem is it becomes
a clusterfuck because then you know, the producers want to want to do the
power play, or the executives want to do a power play, and like,
you know what, I can fucking do this show with nobody. You
know, I don't have to have you on there. They know that they
know they know better, and try it again, and they try it again
with with complete unknowns. Who nobody cares about. And then it's a fucking
it's a ship show, KUEEWI, there you go, shit show. Nobody
knows Ellen. Ellen Poppio has ABC by the balls. It's simple. You're
not going to replace her and still have Grays and Abby You shut the fuck
no. I mean that's the thing, like you you there comes that moment
where where an actor or performer or whatever realizes their worth and does the producer
executive whoever recognize and and agree that that worth is is substantiated? Like you
know what, it's it all comes down to Hogan versus Vince. Every single
fucking, every single fucking you know, any any kind of of of of
of battle between you know, between performer or and and executive comes down to
who created who? Did Hogan create Vince or did Vince create Hogan? You
know that kind of tht. Jay Z once said, everyone's saying they made
me, Okay, then make another me. That's right. If that's the
case, where's the next one? Yeah? And you guys, you know
point out really well throughout the thing is, it's so much of what people
wanted to see. And again, I give Bishoff's a lot of credit for
that was Hogan they wanted after a time where they obviously in ninety four ninety
five didn't necessarily want to see Hogan. Hogan's kind of having a breakdown over
the fact that they might not want to see Hogan anymore, but they also
don't really want to see wrestling. It's not like they want to see Brett.
It's not like they want to see Nash, it's not like they want
to see Sean. They don't want to They're out, and all of a
sudden, Hogan turns heel and they want to see Hogan again. And it's
not DX or Kent, Nash and Hall or all the other bss now given
as like, oh no, that's what was hot. No, no,
no, what was hot was Hollywood Hulk Hogan, and he was hot through
and then Sting kind of was hot as sort of the foil to him,
and people were watching, and he was hot through ninety seven early into ninety
eight, and then all of a sudden end of ninety seven early ninety eight,
people started to look and there was someone else they wanted to see,
Stone Cold, Steve Austin. That's it. That was the star, and
Vince didn't have that for years. You guys have talked about it. JP's
talked about it ad infinitum, trying to find where's the next Hog, Who's
my next Hogan, what's the next Hogan? Whatever? From ninety two to
ninety eight, Vince is essentially on this long, insane search for Hulk Hogan,
and his Hulk Hogan is Steve Austin period and that became and in the
end, what's what I find really interesting is that Siegel talks about how he's
like, I asked them what's next? They didn't have an answer, and
they get so mad about this. I mean, that's the entire job.
Every pitch that I'm in, every meeting that I've ever had, is like
what else do you I could go in for one thing and they're like,
what else do you have? Every day you have to ask, you have
to be able to answer that, and you might really not know. I
have pitched things on to pitch episodes of a show on the fly? Did
I had note? Like, I was like, all right, whatever,
I'm gonna just get it. Hopefully this is gonna be the dumbest thing that
anyone's heard. Sorry, that's like and you know, that's like, honestly,
that's something that that I remember being taught in film school, Like at
the very beginning, it's like, if you ever get a meeting for any
kind of if you get a meeting to pitch one of your one of your
ideas, make sure you get three more lined up to just back it up.
And that's what it makes me like to like hearing that whole thing What's
next, because that's exactly what you like. That's I mean, that's anything
on television, that's any creative idea. If you rest on the same thing
forever, then you're fucked. You're not gonna you know, you need to
have something else to build on. And especially once Siegel says Goldberg is what
was the next thing you better have? Like, if you're executive, he
might be wrong, it doesn't matter he she They might be wrong, but
if they tell you it's like the number one Like if you ever like hired
you rewrites, they always tell you, well, all you gotta do is
listen to what the execs says and verbatim right, exactly one idea that they
have to the script does. If you're wondering how to get good grades in
school, it's the same thing. Listen to that son of a bitch and
give it back to them. In their own words, they they they sacrificed
a lot to be up there as a teacher, and the last thing they
need is some punk bitch acting like they're smarter than them, even if they
are. You have to make them feel like they have good ideas. It's
that simple. And they keep saying, and this is and this is one
of the most frustrating things that I've seen for twenty years now. Wrestling is
different. Wrestling. It's bookers, not show. No, it's not.
It's not even if they do, even if I don't understand the business,
it does not matter to them. They don't care. You're it's it's bottom
line. Only if you're not delivering, it's over. I mean, they
talk about how Bonnie Hammer basically had to beg to keep Raw on the air
in the middle of ninety seven because they're like, well, this is kind
of an expensive show now, and we think we can replace it for much
cheaper with a lot and it could cost us a lot less money. And
she was basically like, no, no, no, we we're doing its
transition. Until the transition happens, let's not let's keep you know, let's
basically toe the line because she knew Barry Diller was coming who was loved wrestling,
and that as soon as Barry Diller took over USA, they had protection.
But there was basically they were almost off the air, like that's the
thing is that people, but they end up blowing up a barrier going to
TNN. We didn't they end up having any blow up with him. Well
long term yes, but at the time he comes in ninety eight. He
comes in in ninety eight, which is a lot words, which is always
like like I think Bishoff always like Chafe sedid it because he's like, well,
Diller allowed basically took away standards and practices from them, like that's Diller,
and it's like it is like, but USA has also had silk stalkings
on guys. It's a totally different network. It's not TNT. Yeah,
like what know what you are? You can't you can't do what they can
do. But it doesn't mean you can't have effective wrestling. You just did
it. You just did it. Yeah, Yeah, it's yeah. I
guess they think that WWF has to be very tame, But the fact of
the matter is there was a lot of lude Steve Austin stuff going on when
the nWo is at its absolute hottest. You know, yeah, it's not
like it's a direct line of like as soon as they started showing middle fingers
and ultra violence and going really crazy leaning into Russo's direction that WCW lost overnight.
It took a long time of beating that drum. It didn't have to
do as much with the fact that it was Lewede. It had to do
with the fact that it was being executed wonderfully for the moment. I mean
it was it was you had, you had a concise, focused, focused
storyline that you know. That's that's what made it different. That's what made
it. You know, you didn't have a million egos all, you know,
trying to join the nWo and and and you know, belittle everything else.
When you think about Sable, right, Okay, yes, her almost
being naked on TV weekly worked, But what was Sable really about? Why
was it more than just major guns coming out there trying to titillate It was
her power mombing Mark Mayer at Wrestling at fourteen fully clothed or at least,
you know, not not not wearing revealing clothing because that that was. That
was what you could tell yourself. This nudity or partial nudity was leading towards
It was that fundamental, Like if it's not leading to a moment on a
pay per view, it is not worth doing. It is not worth doing,
or it doesn't it be a paper you just whatever you conceive in your
head is as the mega card, the supercard. Yeah, the craziest sex
and violent stuff that Vince ever does is an O two O three and no
one is fucking watching desperate bid to keep that edge, desperate yet desperate and
you know he is. He's doing insanct and he's doing it. I mean
the owner of the company is doing it. Is the is the you know,
that's where we you know where you guys have so definitely gotten into his
id. But like it's it's like he that that stuff is not that was
not why I think that's the thing is like it wasn't really like Russo and
you know which kind of that that like was the reason why people were watching
it. Again, they had a huge star and despite all of his injuries
and everything else and what he could do and what he and his limitations,
they centered everything around Austin it's like and to the point where it's like,
to this day, it's like, had they got basically Bishoff felt ass backwards
into a huge star and I know, yeah, they didn't. They didn't
have him lose. They didn't have him lose. I get it. I
get it. For a long time they didn't, but eventually they did.
And once he lost because they like, you know, they built him up
as he couldn't lose, and it was like a weird MMA style thing like
Alvarez did a good job of kind of detailing it was it was over.
They stopped building the company around Goldberg, and once you do that, it's
over. Like basically, you can't you can't do it. Like I think,
honestly, I think if Sean would have, if Sean doesn't get hurt
and Sean's a problem as they're building the company around Austin in you know,
spring of ninety eight, I think that Vince would fire Sean. I think
that that's where he was. I think he understood what the gravy train was
and he was not getting off of it. I think Vince under like Hogan,
didn't get off that gravy true, and he didn't look at Gift horse
in the mouth, and that's very rare and wrestling, because you know,
there's so money agendas, you're on, you're on the road, you're at
TV every week. It's so easy to get someone in your ear consistently to
get you to second guess what's in front of you and lose track of you
know, sticking with something that's working until it doesn't work anymore. You you
almost preempt yourself. It's really tricky. It's hard to do. I know
it's hard to do, but that's that's how you judge a great promoter from
a substandard one. And when were down, Vince found the gold. Vince
found the Vince found the beat to play and he played it. W Study
couldn't do it. Bescheff couldn't do it. No one over there could do
it. After the initial pop worked, after the initial angle, Angle stayed
it, they couldn't find anything else. They couldn't do it. And yeah,
absolutely, And I think in the end, like Vince just understands how
he understands the television business really, like, like to the point where I
was thinking about it tonight beyond like because he's fucking psychopath and obviously a sick,
sick man. But for all of that, that guy should be in
the Television Hall of Fame for sure. Yeah, that bullshit thing that exists.
I mean, that guy has a He understood television and he understood how
to deal with all these executives. He dealt with Eversaw, he dealt with
tarked Off, he dealt with Bonnie Hammer and Barry Diller, and he had
these long relationships with these people and based a lot of them, you know,
according to Dick ever Saw, they never had a deal, and like
to the point where when they're putting the main event on the Friday night show
in eighty eight de Andre show, the targetof's calling him being like, what's
the deal? Like, what is your guy's deal? What do we pay
them? He's like, oh, it's a handshake. And he's like,
you are on a handshake deal with the thing that's been on our network for
three years. And Eversaw's like, yeah, you're a psych we can't do
that. But the point being is that it's like Vince really got it.
He got what he had to deliver, he got what they wanted. He
understood how to deal with television executives. He understood how to speak their language,
And I really think despite this so ironic, it's ironic. That's because
was supposed to be the guy they brought it. Yeah, he's supposed to
be the guy they brought it up. Speak language, because it really became
apparent to me in the Nitro book when it's detailed how Turner had all because
I had always thought, I think a lot of you know, wrestling fans
who like this kind of crap, always thought is that Bischoff had convinced Turner
to give him primetime. No, Turner gave him primetime. So in the
end, Bischoff had no idea how to pitch for that type of thing,
whereas McMahon, because he's an independent television company, had to pitch to get
Raw on the air. He had to pitch to do it. And I
understand that they had a show already, a prime time Raw is a different
entity. It is a different thing, and he had to pitch and explain
what it was going to be, what it was going to look like.
Am I presenting? What is this? And they had to be like,
all right, I mean he's done, all right, And wrestling was not
in a good place when he's putting Raw on the air, at all,
and they believed in what Vince was selling. But I don't know in the
end, after the nWo if anyone really believed what Eric was selling. And
you have to be able to And I'm not saying, look this is I'm
not saying that I could do it. I'm just saying, if you look,
I was, you know, thinking about it. Like they basically had,
Eric was the showrunner and Sullivan was the head writer. The first like
sort of two years of if you take the booker and the promoter, all
the bs, forget that, let's just talk in TV terms. Very quickly
Bishoff and Sullivan were the show runner and head writer, and then it was
ninety seven. It seems like Bischoff was a performer, the showrunner and the
head writer for like the whole year. After Sullivan you know, goes home
with all the drug shit, and then Eric of course burns out. Of
course you're going to and slowly but surely starts relying on Nash. And somehow,
somehow, Kevin Nash becomes the showrunner of a cable television show, What
every He watched a lot of Larry Sanders, he watched, he watched Larry
Sanders show. He did so he really I think he really was like,
oh, this isn't hard. I think that I think that he really thought
that he could do this, and he become and for about eight months he
is running that show. He's running the show, and for a little while
it seems that maybe Sullivan was maybe the head writer, but mostly I think
Ash was the writer of the show, was the showrunner. So he's talking
two executives. Kevin Nash think of long haired nineteen ninety nine Kevin Nash in
meetings with T and T executives, not Bischoff. Kevin Nash. Bischoff is
in Paris. This is Kevin Nash, okay, And when Bischoff comes back
and he has gray hair, so he is not a person who's going to
go in and do very well in Atlanta period. It's is not It's all
true, you know. I think one evolution that's important to point out,
and Dick Cheetam has talked about this, is that before the Turner Time Warner
merger posed to the a Well Time Warner merger, there was a Turner Sports
division and it was accounted for alongside WCW was alongside the Braves and along with
the sports it was in the sports division. Yeah, right, and so
in Jim Hurts era and Kip Fry's era before Bischoff took over, really Watts,
there seemed to be a corporate mentality that wrestlers contracts are akin to professional
baseball players contracts, and we respect this sort of like guaranteed money structure.
And what happens is I think after that Turner Time Warner merger, I think
it was ninety eight. I think it was ninety six. Yeah, whatever
the hell, Time Warner. Yeah, suddenly it starts to become entertainment.
It starts to become Brad Siegel's remit. It starts to become why wrestling if
not movies. Whereas before when it was in Turner Sports and before the Time
Warner merger, there wasn't a consideration of putting those two in the same category.
It wasn't do we do we put Wizard of Oz on instead of the
Braves. No, we we have our sports and that we have our movies.
And all of a sudden, all of a sudden that you know,
there's a couple of changeovers. Harvey Schiller leaves, there's that that Bill Bush
into Regnum. You know, for a lot of the time in terms of
like christening Bischoff is the guy you know, we know uh that that there
was a lot of different moving chairs and people trying to position it around the
time Bischoff got the job, But it was Bill Shaw really who said,
all right, like, we're gonna we're gonna lean into making this a television
show. We're gonna lean into speaking the language of Turner television and entertainment instead
of or sports. And all of a sudden, the hiring of Bischoff makes
sense. But he worked himself and reshoot because he took this thing that was
kind of not being held to an entertainment standard and more of a sports standard
and turned it into just another television show. And I think what people to
cry about w W used to buy, especially longtime fans like Chris Zellner who
we talked about, is that it wasn't another television show. To them,
It was a sport. It was something that had a different reason to exist
and fought for different economics than scripted television did. But you know, Bischoff
gets the job because he's pushing it more in the direction of thinking about it
like not producing a scripted television show. Although of course it was, but
more of like a shiny floor game show like production with a closed set,
and like, you know, the economics of that and the mentality of that,
and the psychology of that, and the commercialism of that, and that
ended up being I think kind of their undoing because all of a sudden they're
being held to the same standard as any other show that comes and goes,
as opposed to you know, the Hawks don't come and go, the Braves
don't come and go. Perhaps they go to another station, but you don't
cancel them in the same way you lose them, whereas you cancel WCW.
Yeah, and once and once you I think that the big and it is
it's one of those things where it's like a chicken or the egg thing of
like, there's no question they are not They can't be WCW as we know
it, or the Nitro era of WCW without haulk Hogan, No, no
question. However, halk Hogan's contract, as you guys have talked about in
detail, is outside of the purview of the wrestling it is. It's with
Turner Entertainment. So the biggest star actually has a movie star style contract,
including the fact that he had movies that they have to put on, yes,
that don't get any ratings by the way, and that they can't sell
any app based So there, you know, so all of a sudden he
isn't there. They are by giving Hogan that deal, they have put them
sell into the eyes of the entertainment business. Part of this, and that
in the nineties was a much more competitive and hardcore at Like, it's funny
because Tony Kahan this weekend wants to be compared to sports. Why does he
want to be conspared to sports? Because his demo then it matters for sports
in a different way that would matter for entertainment entertainment. He's killing it in
the demo, but in sports he'll get more money back. Then you want
it to be in the entertainment group because you get more money for your show.
But and yeah, I know they weren't spent, they weren't given enough
for the show. They weren't they were a wholly owned company. They didn't
view it that they were paying them in the same amount of money to put
on the show and to have that roster. They didn't view it that way.
But like they put themselves. Bishoff put himself in position to win by
dealing with Hogan and to lose by not being able to continue to have like
you had to generate such high ratings, such high revenue that it became,
you know, a near impossibility, and so it's like, you know,
like to keep to keep that up on that level. And then once you
kind of, once it's clear that Hogan might not be the thing anymore,
you kind of have to drop Hogan. But that was an anathma. So
I think it's like, you know, you know, ninety nine, maybe
the thing is like you don't get rid of Russo, or you don't bring
in Russo at all, you get rid of Hogan. That's a hard thing
to do. But you hand much in the same way of like the idea
that Vince might have been been handing off a bit of a poison pill in
a in a disgruntled Brett Hart to them. Maybe you hand off a disgruntled
n you know, hul Cogan to Vince and see if he can do anything.
Were there in that direction. But I think that's the point is without
Hogan, bishof has no idea what to do. That's not it's not only
anathema, it's like, actually, what what what do you mean, Like,
how did what do you mean a WCW without a whole Cogan? Yeah?
Right, yeah, you know what it becomes. It becomes that word
salad from that magazine and of we read in the game where it's these like
broad sweeping platitudes where it's like you can sink your teeth and nothing. He's
saying about what this w CW is going to be, what it's going to
look and feel like, because it's just like, yeah, I wouldn't just
put Hogan. They had a handshake deal with like that's the other day they
had it, Like you said, they had a handshake deal with the Vegas
venue. They didn't even have a Vegas But this is this show has put
to launch in seven weeks. Your ta telling Jamie Kellner that he doesn't know
where he's shooting, where they're shooting the show, he'd be like, what
the fuck are you talking about? No, cancel it every now? I
would think, so are you out of your minds? Like they didn't have
they didn't have anything. They had nothing. He did not have. He
could not even tell them whether Hulk Hogan was going to be there. I
don't know if that's just maybe he's just bullshitting the magazine. I don't know,
but it sounded to me like he was, like, I think Hulk's
going to be there, but I'm not positive. I think they had to
reset all the contracts. Yeah, yeah, I think they had to.
I don't think they could really sign anybody for sure until that deal has to
consummated and they knew what the number was. Yeah, these guys are sitting
home collecting checks whether if not working, So you have to come to them
with checks before they start working, and that will be and you have to
pay them exactly, and you have to pay them these absurd things because most
of them are going to sit at home as opposed. And yeah, they
were gonna get they weren't. I don't think that Bishal was going to bring
you know, Nash back. Maybe it would have, but I don't know
at that number definite was and I don't think he was going to bring all
back. Just the number was just too insane, Like I don't I really
think he couldn't afford it. But you know, obviously he had to have
at least like sort of a six pack or eight pack of guys that he
could depend on for the early big bang ratings because it's like, there's no
there's no way to do that. And so that's why I think in part
that that ending part of like the what why w CW died is that the
IP really wasn't worth that much at that moment, and they weren't really sure
that he could deliver, and W didn't mean anymore than calling it World Ride
Wrestling All Stars or TNA didn't mean more than that at that point that WW.
And here's here's the thing, right JP, we talk about this and
people always pretend not to notice it. It wasn't WCW that blew up as
the nWo, right, It got to the point that they were going to
fucking rename Nitro n W Nitro until they actually went ahead and did it,
and it was such a goddamn ratings disaster that they never floated the idea again
of having an nWo show in a WCW show. But Bischoff was so taken
and so smitten with the nWo as the calling card for the whole thing that
he totally whiffed on the psychology of the only you know, WW needing to
come back was the thing. And because they never did, the loyalty to
those three letters meant nothing, right, because that's the thing, you know,
if if, if, if they actually had booked a strong WCW against
the nWo, you know, WSW might have actually meant something. But because
they did everything in the heart and minds of the actual decision makers, Bischoff
didn't know. WSW didn't mean something to him. nWo is his baby,
not WW. That's my my feeling on it. You know, I think
I thought the other day about the Luger title win in the Palace barber Hills,
August nineteen ninety seven, when he puts Hogan in the rack. Yeah,
that's the sting finish right there. Everyone runs in the ring w CW.
Hoist's the guy who finally thrown Hogan And don't forget you know, Luger.
The nWo tries to run in before Luger puts him in the rack and
he throws Hall over the ropes and he knocks Nash out of the ring.
It's so perfect. And they did that and it undid it, and it's
like they can't they they're not going to move on. They don't see it.
They don't see this as the pivot point. They don't get the pivot
point. It would it would be like Austin beating Shawn Michaels at Wrestling May
fourteen and then losing the title in May uh and then never getting it back.
I know he lost it to Caine for a day, but his rain
actually stopping. Yes, yea within two months, absolutely so, and then
never yeah, and then basically dorm it, you know, and acting like
it's so funny. You know, it's so funny too, because and and
and Luger was so fucking over as a baby face. Yeah, that's how
hot the program was. That Luger himself was like the fucking yep, the
Messiah at that moment. That that's how hot. Dethroning the nWo as a
concept was that it made Luger matter more than I think he ever mattered in
his whole career. Agreed and agreed and maybe matter more than Sting at that
point, which is a little bit worrying. But again Bischoff holding back,
like you do wonder whether it should have been, like you can like if
you're really he's like, okay, when he first talks about the nWo,
he's like, oh, I think we can run this for six months.
I wonder if we can run it for and then all of a sudden it's
like, well, it never is gonna end. By early ninety seven,
it's like, well, no, we can run this forever. But you
do wonder. It's like, should it have been Sting that comes back at
Bachel's the Beach ninety seven, puts Hogan in the rack and ends it essentially
there, and then they have this run like you guys have talked about before.
I always thought it was really brilliant where it's sort of like everybody else
who's in the nWo gets kind of kicked out. It's just those three guys,
and maybe it's the three guys versus the original three guys of Macho,
Luger and Sting at star K ninety eight seven. And then that's the final
end of it, right, and then you take them off TV for a
time, and so it's not it so do you It only goes for like
a year and a half even at that point, like I know that it
just but but once you get into a series thing where you're splitting the nWo
into factions that like, and so it's NW wolf Pack versus nWo Black and
White and it's w CW and the nWo present. That's that's that's a guy,
I'm sorry, whose storytelling acumen is gone. He doesn't have it anymore.
And so that a story of those logos. There's a reason I've spent
it all this time talking about the logo changer. And that's a really good.
One time I never really picked up on was when they switched from the
WW logo to the WW slash nWo. That was that just reeked of desperation.
That really ill focus. Yeah, it was like the storytelling and going
and to be honest, so he takes a break. But the thing is
is that and this is where you know, you can definitely blame the execs.
The execs had no idea who to get to run that show, and
so they you know, Bishoff recommends Nash, So Nash is running it.
That doesn't work. Bishoff comes back for a little bit. They're like to
Eric go home, and then all of a sudden, you know, they
bring in Russo. Russo cannot run a show obviously. You know, there's
many, so many details, including the great interview you guys did the other
day which detail how nuts Russo, what really was Russo should not be a
show runner. Maybe can be a head writer, but he should not be
a showrunner. They did that, they get rid of Russo, they try,
you know, they're like, Okay, let's get Eric back so he
can run the show and Russo can be the head writer. Maybe that'll work,
doesn't They don't? You know, they have the weird Sullivan running the
show over two months. That's pure insanity. They obviously did not care at
that point about anything that was going on. And yeah, so like the
execs had no clue as to what to do with it, and that's got
Yeah, they never wanted it, et cetera. But to be honest,
I mean, that's so many times, Like there's been so many shows that
have had two good seasons and died. Didn't it be fair to WCW.
Even the craziness of network TV back then, Network TV at its height.
I mean, I remember the first season of the OC famously did twenty seven
episodes. Twenty seven episodes, so insane. I still can't get over it.
That's a lot they do. How they get away with that? They
did basically specials and all this. Yeah, they it's one of the longest
season, Like one season runs it's a one season run that harkens back to
like the you know, the sixties essentially, and so they did twenty seven
in the first and then they were done. They essentially had no good storylines
for the rest of the time that that show was on the air. But
WCW two Be Fair has to do fifty two of those. I get it,
Like they have to do they're doing two super long seasons or three traditionals
now shows or eight episodes, so you're you know, that's like it's like
six seasons of TV in one, you know, in one year of wrestling.
I get it. I get that. I don't know. I'm not
saying that it's easy to do. I'm not saying again, that's not a
knock on any of these guys. However, it is unfortunately your job,
and especially once WCW gets very expensive to run, it's very easy to replace
because it's just you can't draw the revenue in because it's expensive. Like if
once you're given two hundred and fifty thousand dollars contracts out like there you know
nothing, and then you know, the big guys are making a tremendous amount
of money. All bets are off you know what I mean, Like,
it's just it's a very expensive you know, when you start to live,
they're like, uh, what's going on? Like this, how much is
this thing that's costing us? Yeah, it's time, but what's what's the
number? And then yeah, okay, O get three point one? Still
good whatever whatever, it wasn't drawing at that point, it's it's drawing under
three point hs. Then you know, uh, thunders drawing under twos.
There's no money in it. There's just not And then you can't rely on
the carriage fee because the number is having less and less and less, so
you can't even justify it with that. And that's it's very easy to see
how Nitro got canceled. It's very easy to see how Thunder obviously got canceled.
Yes, I admit it's harder to see how WCW got sold and gone.
But again it's it was, Yeah, there's a television product. It's
just because a television product, there's no payview revenue to speak of year over
year, there's no live gate to speak of year over year, and that's
what people are thinking is still salvageable at the end. They still think there's
a WCW live arena business and a pay per view business that should carry on
longer than the television show dujore because wrestling lasts so long based on those revenue
models. But WW made the intentional choice we are not going it didn't work
underheard, and they said, fuck it, we're not going to count on
live event ticket sales as our primary bread and butteron And that's why only Anderston
never worked in that organization, because that's the only pro wrestling structure he really
understood. He didn't have any idea how to lean into the economics of television
that tastes the mentality of people who run and spend money in television. And
then when they did that, what do you know, they ended up in
a category with every other show that got canceled. And we think about fondly
now, you know, twenty years later or thirty years later, whoever min
numbingly far away it's been. But we look back, we say, yeah,
that was a hit television show, and that's what it was. We
remember the ties. But Tom is, please go ahead bring us home.
Yeah. My last thing was I would say that you guys first instincts were
right about who killed WCW. Vince and Jim Hurt or sorry, Jim Murder.
Jim Crockett, Jim Crockett, those are the two people. Jim Crockett
selling it and did the sports idea of w CW one s and for all,
despite what they wanted. And so when people think of like, oh,
that's what I want, that's what they're really thinking of, and there
was only moments of that. That's next over the Turner owned one. They
loved Crockett so much that they thought turn if they could just replicate it just
right, it would be hot wrestling again. And I'm not sure I was
trying Vince. Yeah, and Vince because Vince understood television business and that's what
they were in. Everybody in there was competing in the television business. And
that's it. Very good. Well, Tom, always a pleasure to have
you in the fold. Different flavor to a mailback episode. I love that
we hit one of several uh triggers for you on this w CW topic.
We're obliged to do it. We're obliged doing if everyone's talking about WCW,
like you know, we've we've done too much work, Like we got to
step forward and be like, hey, guys, we kind of try to
answer all these questions already. What do you think about this? So,
yeah, you've answered all the questions. It's all there. I tell I'm
telling people go back listen to the archive. I think the conclusion of actually
the laps fan is that Nash killed WCW. And that might be true too,
So there you go. It could be. There's probably some truth.
Man. I don't think. I certainly think he contributed. He definitely contributed.
Kevin Nash did not resuscitate w CW. We can. I'll settle on
that that's true. All right, Tom, always great to hear from you,
Pal, talk again, say so much. All right, Yeah,
it's Tom and the spot boss. That's right. So, I mean I
think that's about enough on WCW. I don't know. Maybe more well,
I don't know. They keep doing fucking specials like this. Yeah, we'll
see. It brings a lot more up, you know, and people.
Yeah, you know what's great about it is it's like it forces people to
remember the little looks and cranny memories that contradict what people are saying today,
like this idea that Stu Snyder was walking around saying he knew Fusian was never
going to get the deal, saying that to people. And now let me
tell you, let me tell you everybody. Everybody knew a deal wasn't going
to happen in hindsight. I think it's true. Yeah, everybody did.
Do you know any Do you know how many deals that I knew weren't going
to happen in hindsight? And I could tell everybody exactly. You know,
everybody knew it now, but they didn't know it then and they don't want
to admit it. Yeah, it's uh, there's probably more there. I
don't know. I think that Unfortunately that Jamie Callner has passed away. I
think now everyone's going to blame him even more aggressively because he can't speak for
himself and won't want to. I mean, he had the chance here,
and you think you think he killed himself to avoid it this whole thing.
No, I think maybe he said You think maybe he said, you know
what, fuck it? Well, they're not saying Mabe did kill them.
Maybe he's like, you know what, this fucking I don't want anything to
do with it, you know what, don't treat me, just let me
go. I think that's why latched fans are particularly well equipped to handle a
subject like this because we're not we're not trying to leave unsaid the idea that
we're wrestling fans, right, and that's probably why w CW went away.
And but we're not afraid to constantly keep in mind the place that society holds
us in. Yep, you know, you get it, you get you
get vulnerable to tricking yourself into speaking the language of television and feeling like you
know how things work based on studying wrestling. And that's fine and good,
But you're a wrestling fan, and that's the consumer that they're trying to appeal
to when they carry wrestling on their stations, and that's the consumer they cut
bait with when they cancel wrestling. Yes, and that is not a hard
consumer to cut bait with. No, Okay, it's just not. We're
we're easy in that regard and kill us. So we're breaking open the mail
bag. And if you remember the last time we did this back in the
spring, as we do sort of these sort of quarterly, our good pal
Christian Hollister had done sort of an omnibus death toll for ten years of TLF.
Remember that longest. Yes, yes, I do. It was long,
and that was a great note to end on. He had sent just
a quick update shortly after or around the time we had gone on the air,
and I'm sure this is longer now. Jimmie Kellner among them, but
I don't remember exactly who twenty twenty four had included at the time. But
we do have Virgil, we have only we have Paul Butchervershawan, we have
Jackie Crockett, a Cabono, the Undertaker, Toby Keith, the country star
who wants who superlex Jeff Jarrett in the first TNA show, and who actually
was in conversation for years about buying TNA. So yeah, that's always that's
always playing out. But we want to turn now to in other words,
Christian keeping coming, because that's just a great blood ole pulse check, you
know, we do. I like that. I like to you know,
it's good to remember. It's good to remember, uh, you know,
how many people have died since we've started doing the show. That's important.
It's so it's so it puts everything in a perspective. When you really see
that list laid bare, you're like, oh my god, like they're you
know, I know, it's weird. It's not that they died. It's
weird that when we started TLF, they were still alive and we were talking
about them like they they still could have new things to say, you know,
like the idea that when we started TLF that Roddy Piper might say something
we hadn't heard him say before, or Dusty Rhose. Right, it's just
like it doesn't I don't know. It just seems like they've been dead the
whole time. Yep, I know, I know, it's so true.
It's it's quite some when we get people writing and saying, I spent all
of my thirties with you, so let's see if we can spend if they
spend their forties with us, it hurts. It hurts. It hurts ship
me and I spent our thirties, my thirties with us, and we love
to get missives like this about kind of what it's like to watch the passage
of time as a wrestling fan, and who unlike the canceled television shows of
your like we talked to Tom about, you don't forget about the people that
impacted you on the wrestling screen quite like you forget about people who were on
you know, some two season hit television show. Right, they're still around,
They're still in the sauce. You still hear them, see them,
So they're still on the sauce. Well, it's this next email from our
pal Nate, or as it's written, some person in the great city of
somewhere had the following relative to the great Missy Hyatt. You have it,
Oh, I have it. Sorry, I didn't even hear it. Come
in my bad greetings, code chairs. After a brief scare, I'm able
to confirm firsthand that Missy Hyadd continues to live among us. Let me explain.
Having taken a shore excursion to Cosmel during the latest Jericho cruise, I
had the question mark pleasure I suppose of being on a shuttle bus right behind
Missy Hyatt and her goofy ass boyfriend. It's not nice. Well doesn't mean
it's not true. I really wish I could have gotten a pick of this
guy to send with this. The bf's wardrobe was actually so atrocious that it
took me several minutes to notice his ridiculous face. See what we've done,
See what I've done. Specifically, it's all about faces, ruining faces,
faces are completely completely. They determine, all right, not only you know,
they determine if you go into this this section of society or this section
of society. All right. Faces can break you, and they can make
you. Yeah, they can make you, you know, but man,
I mean more often than not they break you. So and the people wonder
why we're an audio only podcast. I know you damn right. He dressed
like a guy who thought the fresh Prince of bel Air was ice cube.
Oh God, that's quite a that. Wow. I can only imagine the
hilarious levels of disdain it would spark from me. Uh, Anyway, that's
not the point. First of all, Ms Hyatt, who insisted on wearing
high heels to the beach, fell down almost immediately upon reaching the resort.
As she stood there bleeding, you think she do you think she bladed herself?
You know, you can never make you think you think she tripped on
purpose in order to get heat and color. Oh, it was summertime,
so she got heat. And they're down in Mexico too, So on this
summer mail bag. She's sitting there bleeding. She and her boyfriend, who
I nicknamed Triple K. But why would that be I don't understand. Guy,
looks like it's like this all backwards. Just debated about how to clean
and dress the wound without having to pay any of the stacks, and I
don't know what they ended up doing, but eventually Missing had her shin wrapped
in gauze. I'm always so alarmed when I hear those stories slip out from
wrestlers over the years about how maniacally they had to try to prevent an ambulance
from picking them up because they couldn't afford the hospital stay, and how they
wrestle with like broken bones and they just heal in place and because they just
can't afford to go to the hospital. Like folks. Well, I mean
there is, there is some you know, it depends. I mean my
friend Mikey, you know, he's epileptic, and you know, I mean
it's different. It's not like a broken bone. He's not like also working
on a job. But you know he doesn't like he he can't stand it
when he when if people call an ambulance. Of course, no, I'm
not saying I'm not finding fault with the person for not calling the ambulance.
I'm finding fault with a business that people can't afford to go to the hospital
if they get hurt, and they get this engendered thing of like, you
know, no matter what, even if you fall on a cruise, let's
let's first the first thought is, let's k fabit so that you know,
we don't have to there's no bill at the end of this thing. Well,
what's ridiculous really is that you've got to You've got a business that where
they can't afford to do that, and their job is to put their body
in harms way. Correct, That's what I think about any fucking Yeah,
that totally is ridiculous when you think about any professional athlete that needs to you
know that that puts there. And honestly, you know, in many ways
there are not There aren't many athletes who put their their bodies and harms way
like a professional wrestler does. No, you know, no even try to
preserve your body. You try to prevent it from writing. I mean,
you know, but like, yeah, you guys doing you know one one
one little slip off the top rope and you could end you could land on
your head and break your neck. Yeah, I think you know, other
sports it's like even MMA, it's like the spectator is satisfied if you go
out there and and try to avoid injuring yourself. Yes, right, that
the spectator expects that of the athlete and respects that from the athlete. That
they wow. Not only did they do it, they did it with such
style that nobody even touched them. They didn't have to grit through it.
They did it, you know, with a plumb and it wasn't it wasn't
knockdown, drag out. They didn't get hurt or anything like that. And
people respect that. They respect when a fighter can go out there and not
have to they of course they respect it deeply. When he fights through hell
and gets his face destroyed and still wins a fight or fights work, they
respect that too. But it's not like it's not likely no one's going to
come to see you if you go out there and execute in a way where
you make no damage or you take no offense on you and you score over
and over again. Whereas in wrestling, no one satisfied unless you're putting yourself
on the line. No one satisfied unless you're risking injury with everything you do,
which is no one's going to come to a wrestling show if you wrestle
a match like you would wrestle it if you got paid to win, as
opposed to pay to entertain. And so that's what's perverse about it. It's
like a circus act, you know. It's like these guys and women can't
make a living. No one's gonna come to see them unless they put their
fucking lives on the line all the time and throw themselves willingly into into high
risk scenarios as opposed to get paid to avoid them and still succeed. They
get they get paid, they get paid less to put themselves in hum's way,
and when they get hurt, they can't think of anything else. But
how do I avoid going to the hospital? Ye? What a business?
How do I avoid paying a doctors? Brought a business? And what a
society that It almost makes you wonder why, uh, why there's no union
for these guys? You know? I wonder too about like wrestlers in the
UK, you know, where where healthcare is is socialized and covered one hundred
percent or Canada, do they have the same hang ups? I doubt it.
I mean, I'm sure there are some level of bill, but that's
that's a place to practice this craft where if you get hurt, you can
go to the hospital and not go fucking bankrupt. But that's it's a whole
other story. But it's so it's so pointed in the wrestler lifestyle in particular
that when when you said that, as this email just jumped right out to
me, that whole train of thought. Yep. Uh after lunch, I
was walking back from the pool bar with uh drinks from my wife and me
and I recognize a pair of volleyball sized implants as belong to miss You could
recognize the implants. That's they're kind of small. Actually I would have figured
they're more basketball signs. But okay, who was lying on a chair pool
side? In her? This is also like a what a weird? She
was weird lying on a chair? But she never that's stupid, that's that's
rude for her. Okay, but you're gonna say something else. This is
again this is one of those weird things. It's kind of like, you
know, in no other think about this too, in no other not that
at least that I know of. In terms of the entertainment business, in
terms of athletes and stuff, are there any public you know, outings like
this for like it's you don't do this ship old timer's. You know,
if they're not huge deals, they'll do autograph signings for like charity, they'll
do like card shows. But to like mingle with the fans for a week,
that's more. That's more like comic con like ship. That's more like
fan fantasy. That's that world more than it is the sports. But that
very that doesn't even happen there. I don't know, you know, like
you know, they do they do, have no, no totally, but
like this is like this kind of interaction because this is not even convention.
This is I bought a ticket on a cruise. Granted it's a wrestling cruise,
but and these people are here and we're together. We're together. I
don't know how long these cruises last, these Jericho cruises, but like a
week, like yeah, so, I mean you're you're like, it's so
weird to me. It's so weird, like the the in both ways and
in the amount of that that that that wrestling you know, wrestling wrestling stars
or you know, feel comfortable being around this many people, and they don't,
by the way, they don't, I mean just do it to get
their poems greased. I mean, look, she's but she's like, if
you don't feel comfortable, and I'm sorry, you don't go laying in the
let me let me get you know what, You're right, I don't mean
they don't feel comfortable. I mean they they have to be noticed, sure,
because if they're not noticed, they're nothing. That's what teach you.
And so they do this because they have to get noticed, not because they
want to be around these fans there, but there are still listen. But
the thing is, this is the thing. There are actors and athletes who
need to get noticed. They ain't doing this shit, yep, like they're
not. They're not because I mean because I mean, on a flip side,
the fans for the most part, are wrestling fans are very they're respectful.
You know, they don't necessarily you know, you know, you'd think
in a in a situation like this with any other level of celebrities, there
would be trouble going on. People would you know, bombard them with something.
Granted, I'm sure they'd have a ton of security as well, but
I don't know. There's something about this that is such a unique, bizarre
thing to me that really it's only wrestling in these, Yeah, like you'll
you'll you'll stand in the buffet line with a wrestler and not say a word
to them, and then you'll go like two three hours later and pay to
get their autograph and they were just standing right there and you didn't say a
word to them. You chatted with your friend about Oh my god, that's
whatever. That's true. The thing the one that I always can't I just
because it was I think it was because of my first experience really in that
type of environment, going to Shambourg and like seeing that. The one that
I always think of, it's the one that always gets in my mind is
just seeing animal walking around in his fucking face paint, Like there was something
about that that really like this is this is weird and on a whole different
level, it's like this is bizarre. I know, like people talk about
like why you're a wrestling fan, like do you think it's real? Like,
oh, do you like the action? Do you like the acting?
And it's like, yeah, I can explain why people watch wrestling in that
way, but there's more to it. When these kind of things happen on
the tail end of your career, when you're not even active in the ring
anymore and you're still going to these places, Like what's that about? You
know? Yeah, I mean there's a deeper, deeper level of concern,
you know that. I don't think people understand. I think and I think
the fan is just this damage, just the performances. Listen, Yeah,
because we're the ones who go to this shit, right, you know,
we're the ones who are like, oh, they're gonna be around guys who
haven't seen wrestle in twenty five years. Okay, there's going to be a
convention, uh, you know, at at the Sheridan next month and fucking
you know, not even in like a third tier city. Yeah, and
like you know, the the bench from the eighty seven Lakers is going to
be there. You want to go, no, like they you know,
but Rick Flair's robe from a fucking one match that he wrestled in in h
in Greensboro in nineteen eighty six is there, and I gotta go see that.
It's like going a hockey convention and everyone's walking around with their replica Stanley
cups like they just won the cup. Oh man, no one's doing that.
No one's doing that, no one, no one, No one carries
no one fucking wears, you know, a fucking fake souvenir, a super
Bowl ring around, all right, nobody fucking does that, but gotta walk
around with your fucking championship belts. I mean it's like you're, like I
pointed out, not to judge, but just to say, it's unique to
wrestling. What's that about. That's why people are so befuddled by wrestling fan
It's not just that, you know, they don't get that it's not real.
They don't understand like why people buy all this shit. You know,
I don't really either, honestly. I mean I don't. I don't need
and listening because time to explain to people that I'm not a fan that would
buy that stuff. And I don't know what that says about me, but
I just because because, you know, because what it comes down to for
me is really, am I I buy it? What am I gonna do
with it? You know? What are they gonna do with it? Well?
They walk around with it, acting like to the champion of the world.
Me. I'm like, I wouldn't do that, as we know,
and like, hell, I didn't even bring that aw a belt to fucking
you know, WrestleMania after right, it was so generously given by the afrementioned
Christian Hollister. Yes, indeed, even like they have those deals to do
the belts for the major sports. But if you ever see a fan with
one of those, Have you ever see one of the athletes holding one of
those, it's a laughline. It's like a he holds it. Yeah,
the wrestling in wrestling environments, it's dead serious. When you have one of
those things, it's like, whoa. It's like you pulled up with a
fucking sixty eight Corvette or something. WHOA, check this guy out? If
you fucking like, if you fucking made fun of a guy for walking around
with a championship bilt, that's kicked exactly or at the very least, you'd
be a pariah at these things. Right, What all you're doing is wondering
the same thing that ninety eight percent of the world wonders when they see it.
You know, it's hard to explain to people that that not all wrestling
fans get that part of it, you know. And this is kind of
in that same category of like, you know, wanting to share a cruise
boat with wrestlers. You did what well, Also, it's like also it's
like, but on the flip side, it's like Chris Jericho wants to share.
I mean he's you know, obviously doing it as a business venture,
but still he's like he's wanting to share a cruise with fans. Yeah,
I know, it's the cruise thing. Remember the aw A cruise when we
did Life and Death, there was like reference to it. Memphis did one.
I don't know, there's like some business model and the crew thing where
it's like all it is is really it's a convention on a boat. Though
it is. It's the same exact day Jericho started doing this, after the
you know, the star Cast conventions. Everything took took hold him was kind
of doing well. So like instead of people checking into a hotel and going
to the ballrooms to hear panels and to you know, have meet and greets,
they can just do it on a boat. And they had a ring
in there, and they even take a dynamite on the on that ship the
first year. There are a lot of practical measures that I understand. It's
still fucking weird. I have to agree with you. I never want I
never once enough cruised, you know, and I've liked it. I'm not
against cruising. I've had fun on cruises, but I didn't. I never
got the wrestling cruise. I never felt the pull to go to it.
I mean, I've never felt the pull to go to any Listen, if
we didn't go to go to those wrestle cons and ship for lapsed fans,
I wouldn't. Yeah, I wouldn't fucking go. I'd never I'd never go.
I have no interest in those things. I I I. Yeah,
like I value the entertainment that the wrestlers have provided me, but I don't
I'm not going to go there and buy a fucking autograph from some Also,
I also have no value. Like, to me, autographs are so not
valuable. They don't do anything for me. I know they don't. Like
I remember as a kid it was something different, like there was something about
it that I was like, oh my god. But now I'm like,
who gives a shit. Everyone's got something signed by their mom, you know.
Nice. So what was what was Missy doing besides laying on a chair?
I didn't I didn't assume she was telling the truth. Lying on a
chairpool side in her bikini, about six inches north of the aforementioned anatomy her
tits her basketball tits was Missy's face, her mouth slightly a gape, had
fallen to the right side and troops slightly forward, like she just fallen asleep
after Thanksgiving dinner. So and your point is nor any other totally North's next
the sky is blue. I was really hoping that, like, you know,
her her mouth was you know, he said, like a gape,
and just by the crack of her mouth it was drool just coming out.
That'd be fucking amazing. However, unlike Uncle Joe passed out after stuffing two
pounds of turkey down his gullet, eyes word wide open. Let's get that
fucking mail back, bitch, you know about it. Besides Na, she
was making this sound haig and no one, no one seeks medical attention for
it. Just Jericho Cruz hasn't even taken off yet. It's still anchored,
and it's already gotten to this point. It's not moving. Oh God.
I saw that my tracks about two feet in front of her, noting her
unfocused eyes and believing I had just discovered her untimely death. I stood there
for about five seconds, wondering if I should feel for a pulse and possibly
start just compression That is the problem with looking like you've been through some ship
in life is you can never take a nap in your car without someone calling
the fucking ambulance. Exactly. You listen, you you look like you've been
harmed or that you or that you're dead in there. Yeah, like you
know, that's the thing. When you've got a weathered, beaten face like
hers. Come on, I can't. I'm sorry. Look, the amount
of work she's had done in her face is like and her aging process as
well. It just is not done done well for her. I'm sorry,
I'm sorry, missy, but you should know better Vitunately for her, she's
a real one. She cast stones too, so she's got to be able
to take it. She's she'll talk plenty of shit, exactly. And you
know I gave her some money at one point. I got her fucking nudie
video there was with Sonny back in the day, such a you know,
you know there there was After after watching that one time, you really the
way that they all are and the way that you can see that they are
and they're just not well. None of the women in that video were well
and it's just not fun. The second time, you know, you go
back, and she's got like you really can't, you know, and I
try to, you know, I'm like, okay, you know, like
this is I mean, what's the watch. It's just a fucking just stripping.
It's like a poon in a fucking strip club. But you know,
but like it's like, you know, but then when you look, it's
like they're they're just not well and you can see it in their face and
and you're just kind of like, I don't think I should have this video.
Oh that's a riot. That's a riot. So true. As I
moved along, Miss Hyatt's open eyes remained unfocused, and I don't think she
had even noticed me stopping right in front of her lounge chair to check for
her for signs of life. I can't say for sure if she normally sleeps
with her eyes open, like some kind of soul is ghoul? This guy's
bringing it. He's fucking bringing it. Okay, have you ever have you
ever? Have you ever fall asleep with your eyes open? No one's told
me I have. I don't know how I would know. I'll tell you,
well, I'll tell you what I think. I don't know if I
have or not, But I think I have one time, because I vaguely
remember being in a weird place of dreaming but also seeing what was right in
front of me and not moving. It was very bizarre, And then kind
of woke up and I was like, Oh, I'm looking at this exact
same thing that I thought I was dreaming about, but it's like right here.
It's very bizarre, but anyway, some cool, but I, for
one, preferred to thing. She was rendered into such a state of waking,
of waking unawareness by some fruity tropical drinks artfully paired with some other fancy
gimmicks from the Fanny pasture. Who knows, Maybe she actually did see me
check to see if she was alive. Maybe it happens all the time,
or maybe she just thinks I was checking out her tits. I was not.
If I were a funnier guy, this email would have done better justice
to the strangess of believing the soul of an iconic NWA personality from the nineteen
eighties nineties had just discorporated before my eyes. Alas, I'm just not that
funny, Oh pretty damn funny. But I suspect the world class whad from
the Coaches will go along way to overcome whatever deficiency. I haven't matter,
consider it done. Path. Yes, Lastly, I wish for all members
of the soul system a life filled with real peace and fake violence. And
may the Warlord have mercy on your filthy souls and justice's case. This makes
it way back to that circle. I shall remain anonymous this time. Yours
truly some person from the great city of somewhere. I fucking love it so
much, fucking amazing. I mean, that's what we're here for, to
have a place for thoughts like that and missives like that to land yep.
You know, if you're ever in a situation is wrestling fan where you're like
I am, I need to get out of this situation. This is not
enjoyable. Just think, well, actually, it'll make a hilarious letter to
TLF yep, that's right, and then proceed, yes, and then send
it to the lapsed fan at gmail dot com please, so when that fucking
mail bag gets cracked open again, we're in business and as we always do
when feedback shows, we need to thank the people that have joined us at
Patreon dot com slash the lapsed fan. The thing that makes this the envy
of podcasting. The thing that makes this hum the difference between own podcast and
ten years of relentless pounding. That's right. It's the support of fans on
Patreon. We know you're there, You vote with your wallets, and ain't
nobody going to throw us off course or give us the sense that we're lesser
than or that we're we're hitting a ceiling or anything like that, because the
support is there and we don't need any third validation. We simply do not.
We just keep casting for those who keep proving that they want it.
It's a beautiful thing. Folks like Liam McGrath stepping up and joining that executive
producer here. Thank you to Liam, Thank you to Joe, TOI de
Tolvey for recently joining us. Travis writes to us, I apologize in advance
for the possible rambling nature of this email, but I wanted to reach out
to you guys to let you know with a podcast and the effort that you
guys have put in is meant to me. I know I titled my email
TLFX testimonial, but I don't need this to be read on the show.
If you guys would like to for some reason, you're absolutely welcome to share
this. I've been a listener since the late summer of twenty fourteen. Wow.
Wow, fucking that's old school pretty us day one, so I'm probably
one of the longer tenured listeners of the show. I was a twenty one
year old who was in college and an Observer subscriber and found you guys through
the clips that Brian and Dave would play of the main's journey on Observer Radio.
I heard Dave talking to someone who seemed very knowledgeable of the business,
and I knew I needed to hear what this was all about. Little did
I know that I just discovered the soundtrack of my twenties. That's right.
Immediately, I knew that this was my kind of show. Four hour podcasts
signed me up my boring part time job the college led to me killing tons
of time, and with you guys in my ears, had made the day
go by so quickly. Boss. We are here for boring jobs. Absolutely
without boring jobs. We ain't shit, damn right. I was a lapsed
fan in my own reguard watched from twenty oh three to seven, and I
was catching up an Attitude era and Slash Golden era wrestling through the WW network,
so the depths of research that Jack would undertake was extremely impressive and much
appreciated. I enjoyed the first episodes of the Main's Journey, but what really
hooked me was when lapsed. Vince was conspiring with Patterson to get Brett Hart
back to the WW not because of financial reasons not to let bygones be bygones,
but because he wanted to have Sean put Brett into the sharpshooter. Vince
wanted to ring the fucking bell, and he wanted to drop Owens bones from
the ceiling onto Brett. I mean, that's I mean, I still have
to stop myself when I hear that that we that we that we put that
out there in the anniverse, that that we uh, that that that that
that little that that little uh. Those are the leaps of faith all the
way, honestly, that the little joke that we had from college. Fucking
I mean, those are the leaps of faith that there are so many times
over the course of these ten years, like can we should we tell that
joke? Like that's that's not for everybody, man, and like we found
out that like you know, no, I mean, we know you guys
do it in a in a spirit that's not you know, strictly designed to
offend, right, and so people are with it, man, like,
that's that's one thing. Every time we've like taken a risk, people have
been like, yep, that's yeah, that's that's who I am too.
I I can't help it. That's what I think is funny too, almost
ten years late. And it's not just that. It's not just that image.
It's the absurdity, right eat, absurdity for humor to work. It's
the absurdity of the fact because again, if you picture it in your mind,
not about that being funny, it's about Vince doing it. Right,
you think about that he was able, That Vince was able. Number one,
this was because this is back in you know what two thousand and two
when we first came up with this idea. So the likelihood of Brett Hart
ever coming back was so right, you know, that was absurdity too in
there, right, the absurdity right there was that Brett Hard you know,
there's no way he's ever come back. And then the absurdity that that Vince
was able to talk Brett into letting Sean too. I know, like that
already is a non starter, like right there, top it all off,
the fucking bones of so vincing man either himself or hired somebody to dig up
owen Heart's corpse. I mean, look, okay, I don't know what
to say. I don't know what to say. Besides, it was said,
you know, and then you decided to put it up because he's that
fucking nia party. Just take away, take away the emotional resonance of a
being Owen and you know, everyone being very sad about what happened to him.
Just like make a make up a character in your head like that.
Mister Burns would take the brother's bones, like you know, just to get
it back and back at somebody. Just disembody it from your feelings about Owen,
and you might be able to get to the dark, huber place that
we were then. Almost ten years later, and I still look back on
the moment I first heard that he writes and smile. I laugh for a
solid five minutes and look like an absolute lunatic to everyone around me. But
I couldn't dare tell anyone what I was laughing about, because how can I
possibly explain that scenario to anyone? Yeah, you heard me, fucking fumble
around trying to do it in the past ten minutes. It's not easy.
JP's impressions and it's work on all laps characters. I've been an absolute masterpiece.
The research that Jack puts in for the main show and the research that
JP does or the Cinemat episodes are nothing short of amazing. You guys had
been in my ears NonStop for the past ten years, through jobs, relationships,
moves, and even my wedding. On the morning of my wedding in
twenty twenty one, I actually listened to an episode of TLF while preparing for
my wedding. You guys help me call my nerves and anxiety in that moment,
and I'll be forever thankful. For the past six years, I worked
in the oil and gas industries and accountant, which means I spent a large
portion of my day with my AirPods in. Naturally, I had TLF and
Cinemat on a constant rotation in my ears and other orifices. I recently got
laid off and it's been one of the hardest experiences of my lifetimes. Of
my life. Rather, I won't make you guys suffer through the agony porn
that many members of the Solar System are keen to send you guys, So
I'll just leave at it saying that things were not going well aside from my
wife, one of the only other things that got me out of bed and
got me through the day with TLF, which I know sounds like a ridiculous
thing to say about a podcast, especially a podcast involving people that I've never
met and probably will never meet. But the laughs and the smiles that you
guys were able to give me got me through some of the darker days During
my unemployment. I dove deep into journeys, starting with the Funker, than
moving on to Sandy Shores for the World Class Journey, and most recently,
I just finished another word listen of the TNH Tour. Despite a financial hardship,
I couldn't bring myself to change my Patreon subscription. I feel that the
work that you guys put into this project and this source of happiness should be
rewarded properly. Again, apologize for it. It's probably a poorly written and
rambling email, not at all by the way, Travis, but I start
at my new position on Thursday, and I felt compelled to reach out to
you guys to know that the work you put in is appreciated and has helped
people in ways that you guys probably never could have imagined when you started this
project ten years ago. Well, that is correct. I know you guys
both have family, so it's very much appreciated that you take the time to
make a podcast for all of us degenerates. You guys are fucking amazing.
Thank you for being the soundtrack of my twenties. Thank you for re kindling
my love of wrestling, and thank you for ho Commania. That's a shoot,
brother, Yep, that's a shoot, and what a strange thing to
bond over. But you never can tell, so true, you never can
tell what line that comes out of our fucking mouth sometimes is going to be
the way. Oh my god, Matthew McKinney, thank you very much for
the pledge. We appreciate the support. My friend Willie Thompson, welcome into
the Patreon in our circle. We appreciate it. Kaypeope. We know who's
such a great supporter out in Hawaii. We always love to hear from him.
I think there's a letter in the bag once again from him this quarter,
and we want to thank you for recently upping your support William Webbrights on
Patreon. I just spent five days in the hospital getting pumped full of antibiotics
and steroids for an infected knee, and tilef was there for me, filling
my ear and my rear. So much of that over the decade, so
much of that, so much of that shit, literally shit. Alexander Bogden,
thank you very much for your pledge adx ad X three. I always
love to see that big bump up all the way to our elite tier,
ladies and gentlemen, the mother of all teers, the Moat tier. It
it's a pretty penny, but it sends a strong signal to your coach.
So this is this is forever worth doing. Put you puts you on a
different on a different level, if you will. Yeah, literally, and
that spirit, as we like to do when we convene for the mail bag,
a quick rundown of the honor roll of folks that as we record this
aren said tier and are willing to signal that it's worth a premium. I
think on par with no other podcast. I mean, I don't know,
I mean, I know there are technically tears at this level with the other
pods, but are not sure it's as well populated, so we need to
thank the elite like Abel Lettier at Adam Graver and Ada eighty x three and
Aiden Kevelhan and Alan Smith and Andy Toff and Austin King Sliver and Austin Tyson
and Blake Downing and Brad and Brandon Kaiser and Brennan Moe and Brian Blake and
Brian Hinz and Chris Harris and Christopher Creva and Chuck Piacio and cold Stone,
Steve Austin and David Cammonester and David Style and Dennis and Dominic Carrera and Hal
Cogan and Intern Matt and James Irwin and Jim Rocco and John Francis and Justin
Davenport and Kevin Millis and Christopher Craig and Louis Perez and Mark Daper and Martin
Ferguson and Marty Longhurst. What about Mike Hornecker and Monty Davis Junior, Nathan
pedro Rios, Pete Cosey, Peter j Panico, Peter Rustling, r Ronaldi,
Robert Holtzhammer, Ryan Baal, Sam Fairbanks, Scott Galler, Scott Michael
Ferry Sean McGear, Stephen Laird, Tom, that's Nasio, Tom, Travis
Vernon, Somosa, William Murphy, Zach Madris, Zach gollaher zvs Choir and
that's the elite, that's the Mote Tier and Boss. They have been treated
to the most wholesome of sessions between you and Maria Sorrow. Oh yes,
indeed, so Mamia every Monday for the Mote Tier, only recently celebrating.
Tell him about it. The one hundredth episode, one hundred episodes and the
big one it was Kobashi versus Joe. You were there and it was the
first time well I think it was the first time at least that I that.
I think we maybe watched one match before as a warm up one,
but the first time you've been on wreussell Mamia. And then we also showed
me getting chopt by Kobashi and I'm I'm absolutely loving some of the comments,
by the way, that but some of them someone saying on purpose, my
mom said that about me getting chopped purpose. Yes, yes, she's like,
you know, she gets that that extremely horrified look like what what and
does she or does she not say? He hit you right in your neck
chest did save my neck chest. Oh man, that's that's just phenomenal.
Most recently, though, I will say we did do U. There was
a Hulk Hogan versus a job or match from w Championship Wrestling that was dropped.
And you know, every week, every Monday, you can enjoy everyone
morning, you can enjoy watching a match with me and my mom. So
very hashtag lapsed away to start your week. If I do see some of
myself and yeah, it's it's what it sounds like. Man, it's getting
back in the living room carpet with your family in the room wondering. Oh
Jesus, it's wrestling time for the little one. Okay, well what is
this all about? Oh? That looks so foolish. What is that?
How does that even work? What are the rules? But that's the point
that the parents who over time ask so much questions that you realize they're actually
kind of into it. Yep, actually kind of into it. But it
can create that distance, Like the only reason I'm watching it because my kid
I would never watch it. They're they're they're nervous to to to have this
go around a little besides this little area, I don't want people to know
that right. Let's not talk about this outside, okay, don't don't tell
your father about this and this is We'll leave it there. Brother, that's
correct too. Well, Scott, want to thank you for the increase in
pledge. Thanks for that bump pow, Chris Hide, and we appreciate uh
the recent increase in denomination as well. Joe Gavin, thank you for your
support. Same to you, Gerrik Taylor. We want to say thank you
to play Mark and Gilbert writes to us hell of CoA chairs. Hard to
believe it's been ten years, but I've been a fan for all ten found
the podcast when it was on Wrestle's Own and have followed Jack for years before
that. Jack remember Lutfi, of course I do. My good bet let
vie. I would call in in the triangle choke, that's what we call
the Wrestling of THEMMA show. And then to downloaded Jack's rewind on the dog,
the shirt dog that is Jack MMA used to be better. Give me
an Iceman or t us gsp bj Anders and silver Brock listener over to Poria
Drick is due to Plasus and Pennington. Yeah, well I don't know I
understand what you mean. I do it's just a real sport though. That's
the thing about MMA, like it used to be better. Sure, but
like you can't blame UFC for like what the fighter, you know what I
mean, how the fighters evolve that book? Not really. I mean,
yeah, they can book for fan friendliness and to put you know, personalities
together on grudge matches. But it's become such a top ten kind of game,
you know what I mean, like with rankings and stuff. Sure,
it's not overly it's not overly prescriptive like boxing is in that category. But
I don't know, I just I don't. I don't think of it in
the same way. And that it's like you can't. It's not creative decisions
that made it better, you know, it's a kind of movie. I
have had my run ins with wrestlers throughout my years, he writes, but
they don't fit a specific episode, so I wanted to share some. I
dated Eddie Guerrero's a niece my senior year in high school. Uh oh wow.
When he was in the we One of my best friends once approached her
and said, hey, your uncle does steroids. Huh. But when the
wrestlers came to town, some would stay with her. She once famously housed
Sting in Luger. I met the Rock at a Taco bell stone cold at
a Waterburger, had a beer with Mark Henry, and saw the Undertaker at
a softball game. Over the years. Wow, my dad was a painter,
and one day he said, we got a new guy at work and
he used to work for one of those fake wrestling shows you watched. Oh
my God. Asked my dad if I could tag along and he said yes.
I meant this Carney when I tagged along in my Okay, I met
this Carne when I tagged along with my dad. He hated the w B
and said Vince would run it into the ground, but WCW that was where
he watched. I asked him who he wrestled. After a bunch of bullshit,
he told me Dusty Rhads ended his career with an elbow to the ribs.
I went home thinking that Carney was a fucking loser. He used to
be a carnee bashed my beloved WB, and now he is taking orders from
my dad. I laughed, thinking you went from wrestling Dusty Rhodes to now
being my dad's bitch. Okay, recently asked my dad who that fake wrestler
was used to work with. Was it Wahoo? He said no. He
would ask my friend where the funks lived. They didn't know who I was.
I don't know, he said no, he didn't remember, but that
Wahoo McDaniel went to school with his dad. I currently live in Austin and
asked my plumber if he was part of the Rhodes family. I used to
live close to Amarilla and would ask my friend where the funks lived. They
didn't know what I was talking about, right, They didn't Legends of Amilla.
Right, No one cares. Sorry for the rambling, but the experience.
I know the CoA chairs will love. I've been in the Undertaker's house
due to the nature of my work, said would losing him and other celebrities
as a customer. I will say this, he is truly every bit Mark
McCool and not Mark Helen. Maybe more stories to come, Yes, yes,
yes, hashtag TLFX much, Eyes on the ground much, God damn
it, we're watching, and God damn it, we're listening. Shelse KF
thank you very much for the pledge. Hal Cochin writes, did I hear
right that Larry King qualifies for under the cinemat if so that's the Ghostbusters one
opening JP was looking for. Did Larry King qualify? How I feel like
I remember this? Did he qualify? I mean, what was the reason?
I think it's probably because Shawn Michaels did the Larry King parody skin around
the Hogan program in two thousand and five, and then of course Larry King
interviewing Vince Larry King interviewing wrestlers all over the place. Yeah, the huge
interviews you came, like Jericho after the Ben Wah thing or or eating up
to Uh, we did it for Nicky Rourke. Well, that and the
the fucking documentary there beyond the map, very black on the mat when we
had blouse teen and three people who weren't on the fucking documentary talking about the
rest one. This Jericho is here, wait here for the full hour?
Chris? Is that your real name? When you're in there? You really
hurt each other? Right now? What parts of fake? What pots are
real? Alright? I thought we were talking about my book. Yeah we
are. But you know, but what a guy in the face does,
he is a get mad? What part of your book is fake? What
part of your book is real? Well? Erry, it's one hundred percent
one of the two. I won't say which one, so I can't really
divide it up that way, Robot, thank you very much. So,
yeah, you've been looking for a way for Ghostbusters one. Maybe that's it.
Yeah, that's it right there. Yeah, Rus writes on some of
our live calls, which of course to available to our patrons every month from
the VIP tier ten dollars a month and above. We watch modern WWB so
you don't have to you got money in the bank coming up expertly programmed on
Independence Day weekend. By the way, what a fucking bunch of Moreash Berlin,
Spare Christ, Summer Slam and all these these four time of year mega
shows, Boss, the Supercards, the Big five four. There are going
to be two nights going forward. Maybe they'll do it for Royal Rumble two.
Yeah, I think they will. Actually it's starting to look like that.
I mean, I personally I think Bash A Berlin should be four days.
I actually a week along Dash in Germany, I think, I mean,
is that usually what is that a tour? Right? But I think
yeah, I think I actually think a five day WrestleMania with five four hour
shows would do the trick. We go to our next question for Nick con
Jack from I don't know Investment bank X, Please ask you a question,
Nick, is it time to consider WrestleMania being a thirteen night event? I
know it's two now, why isn't it thirteen nights? Have you guys considered
having a WrestleMania every month making it a monthly thing? I mean, you
did WrestleMania Backlash that one year, so it got me thinking, you can
just put WrestleMania in front of everything. What about WrestleMania SummerSlam? I mean,
just the absurdity. Just let it sit there for a minute, WrestleMania
SummerSlam. So I'm goone drafted up. Let's see how it looks on the
idea board, on the vision board, but on one of the I believe
this is on one of our live calls. Root comment The Roman versus Cody
match reminded me so much of the Sting Triple H match, where it might
be hype in the moment, but you think about it again and it does
not age well almost instantly, especially while after Sting did post WWE and ultimately
was a failed attempt to make you think about Triple H. I guess this
is what we can expect from these big WWE main events. Yeah, I
think that's true. I mean, I look back on the match still feeling
like it was Cody, but it's very hazy. It has a lot to
do with a lot of other things than Cody. Let's listen. Listen.
The thing is, it doesn't matter who wins the match. The architect is
Triple H. It's so going down. There's such a civil war with him
in Rock like coming. I swear to god, I cannot wait. Cody
is like firmly convinced that Triple H is like his ally and this thing and
now the power play happened and Cody got crowned and Rock Roman didn't happen,
and Roman's coming back around, and when he comes back around, then Rock's
back in the sauce. And there's going to come a time whether they have
to do Cody versus Rock. They've teased it the night after WrestleMania on Raw,
they teased it, and that's going to be a fascinating showdown battle of
wills over who really runs ww yep, yep. I think Rock wins the
championship. Oh my god, Cody got the crossroads lined up. Yep,
Rock spins around rock Bottom one two three, Yeah right, he already pinned
them clean a mania, it did, And tell me that wasn't part of
this fucking chess game. Absolutely. How about this Cody? All right,
the wind's blown in a certain way. Cody gets his moments. But what
about night one? Yes, well, how should night one finish? Should
it finish? I don't know. With Rock getting the one two three on
Cody, the first first match in like fifteen years, I think we're going
to look back on that one is much more rich with significance and meaning than
we can appreciate it. Hearing which it happened. The overdrive beats everything is
the user name of our next page. IOP. We want to thank him
or her very much for the pledge. Brian Blake is all over as a
film buff himself, great member of the Solar System, all over the cinemat
series, on the James Bond series, and it's just been such a wonderful
tour of films that I know I should have seen and never would have thinken
the time to watch, but to be able to watch them with Boss's handholding
from a research perspective, and to be able to call out the pro wrestlers
that are involved in these movies and get a deep background sketch of them.
It's just been tremendous. And on the show about On Our Majesty's Secret Service,
Yes, which is what our fourth or fifth cinema I forgot I was
somewhere around there. Yeah, he writes, great work. Director Steven Spielt
Soderberg rather is also a big fan of this particular Bond while not being a
super fan of the franchise. He wrote about the movie on his blog in
twenty thirteen and called the best Bond film. Wow. I don't agree,
but I think it's pretty good and definitely more toward the top. And he
links us up. So what do you think, I mean? Update?
First of all, update people where we are in the Bond journey, And
what do you think about On Her Majesty's Secret Service? Well, we are
in the midst of are We're in the midst of our Roger Moore era.
We've we've kind of got over the hump with that, with just finishing moon
Breaker, so no surprise is coming up. Next is For Your Eyes Only,
which has got a very Actually I really thought it was going to be
more of a run of the mill type of show, but there's a lot
of interesting stuff that's happened happening in there, and it kind of took me,
took me aback when I was like, oh shit, like there's there's
kind of a lot of stuff to kind of talk about that I really had
no fucking clue. But so, yeah, so we're there, and you
know, we're we're I believe we're we're at our halfway point too in regards
to the whole journey. Still got a ways to go for sure, but
it's it's it's been it's been wild, it's been great, and it's it's
really it's been eye opening for me even and I also had not I've seen
a good number of of the Bond movies, but i'd never seen all of
them and the ones that we're missing, uh I have seen, which is
kind of lucky on my end. But yeah, it's been great and uh
so it's kind of weird. Like on our Magie Secret Service, I feel
like, is is it? Is? It? Is it? It's Actually
it would be a great Bond movie. I think we talked about this.
It would be a great Bond movie. And maybe one of the best all
around for me. If it wasn't George Lazenby as James Bond, well that
is a huge standout about it. Yeah, George Lazenby really really hurts the
the the status of that movie. Yeah, it's a good, it's a
it's very good. He just is out of place and and he just does
you know, he can't he can't he can't do. He can't hang.
He can't hang. That's the bottom line. He can't hang. You know
who can't hang is aceax Kowloon, who dropped a sick pledge on our ass
since the last time we updated you, and want to thank him for his
counsel and support. For sure, absolutely, Steven writes to us. Lazenby
is Bond's version to Goldberg. Thinks he is the greatest despite a lack of
talent compared to others, and has only been booked going over so far.
That's good. That's actually pretty good too. I'll take that. That's funny.
How about a good Cliff, our good palcliff with an email entitled how
TLF helped me make some friends? Hey, now, all right, that's
nice. You have it. It's rare. I got it here it is,
dear, dear co chisels if they're of TLFX. I think I finally
need to share this story. Back in twenty seven, I went to my
friend Taylor's bachelor party in upstate New York. On the way there, what
was what was I listening to your review of SummerSlam nineteen ninety. Anyway,
when I got to the house where we were all staying, I realized I
knew nobody except Taylor and his brother in law, who was completely shit faced
by the time I got there. The rest were his high school and college
buddies. I started introducing myself to everyone and sat down next to two of
Taylor's college friends, Mike and Andy, who were playing cards. I joined
in. Now, normally, when you're trying to break the ice with new
people, you start off with some generic questions like what do you do for
a living or where are you guys from me. On the other hand,
I did something that no self respecting person would do. I broke out in
lapsed Steve Austin, Oh my god, help us. I don't know why
I did it, but regardless, every sentence began with, well, goddamn
son, what the fuck can you imagine? Oh god damn son, what
fuck shit. Mike and Andy thought I was hilarious. They had no idea
what the lapsed fan was. They thought I was doing a funny impersonation of
Steve Austin, and I was. It just wasn't my impersonation, of course
it was. You don't have any exclusive dominion on it. Well, no,
but like you ever do that like I used to get. I used
to get uh, I'll never forget. When I was in high school,
my I didn't I try to do an impression of of of Robert Niro to
my drama teacher there, and he said, you're not doing an impression of
Robert Nero, You're doing impression of this guy doing his impression Robert. I
was like, oh, yeah, shit, you're actually right. I am
doing that, Like that's exactly what I was doing. That's funny. Anyway,
I just kept talking like lap Steve Austin the entire weekend. I got
to a point where some of the other guys in the house were getting annoyed
with me and were saying, man, stop. However, if I've learned
anything from the laps fan is to keep doing something people don't like until they
start to like it. So I just kept going, God, damn son,
I ain't I ain't gonna quit being Steve Austin. And that's the bottom
line, Coach stone Cold said. So eventually they came back around and started
laughing again. When I left the party that Sunday, one of Tyler's it's
awesome. Give me hell yes, Steve, Hell yeah, I shouted back,
This is not where the story ends. Five months later was Taylor's wedding
in Costa Rica. The only two of Taylor's friends from the bachelor party that
were at the wedding where Mike and Andy. As soon as they saw me,
they yelled Steve, So Steve. I don't know if they knew my
real name, but I didn't care. These guys thought I was awesome.
More Steve Austin or the TV version of Austin doesn't matter. Of course,
I broke out and laped Steve Austin during the five days we're in Costa Rica,
and of course I was a hit by the end of our time there,
and he came to me and said, Hey, I'm getting married at
the end of the year. You want to become my bachelor party in September.
Hell yeah, I replied. Two months later, Taylor and I were
flying up the Buffalo for Any's bachelor party in the daytime. Part of the
party was at a public park. We drank eight played canned jam. I
don't know what canjam is? I don't know what can jam? Is?
There the usual. When our time in the park was done, Andy came
to me and said, Steve beer bash. I stood in the middle of
the crowds, cell phone recording me a bud light in each hand. Cliff
I said something in lapsed Austin's, smashed the beers together and poured them all
over my face, barely getting any beer into my mouth. All the guys
cheered, and he walked up to me, shook my hand, smiled at
me, lean in and whispered that was the only reason I invied get that
pain. I don't know if he was kidding. I didn't give a shit
if I was being used for my lapst ill was an impressions, so be
it. I've been used for worse things. It turned out he was kidding,
because we remain friends. I still talked to him Mike to this day,
and it was all possible because of TLF. So thank you for friend
to mania. I think I need to see that video, by the way,
so that needs to be sent. So get that again on that.
I mean, We've certainly heard of people bonding and making friends because they both
listened to the show, but I've never heard of someone leveraging some of the
show's kind of IP to make other friends. Yeah, that's new one.
That's a new one. Like the people who aren't really fan, who aren't
fans of us to like to be able to to modify an impression to suit
your needs, to suit your needs, that's money. Yeah right, that's
fucking hilarious. Fart Donovan, thanks for the pledge, Brother far Donovan dash
Mark, thank you for the pledge. I'm not sure how you want to
be known, but there you go. Austin, our good friend, writes
JP. I just left a movie theater after seeing The Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare.
Oh yes, I don't wish to spoil anything, but highly recommend it,
right, he said, highly recommend you look into the true events that
inspired this film as well as researching Operation Postmaster. Perhaps you into this,
he says. The fact that this guy Richie film is released in the early
days of your carnies are forever. Journey is yet another proof point that lap
Serendipity is alive and well. Brother. So we don't know anything about that.
We just know that have you watched that film? No, I have
not seen anything. Well, keep Austin in mind when you do, like
Cliff keeps Austin in mind whatever he does. That's too damn right, Stephen
Wrights. Remember we were having some dialogue about why it would make Sergeant Slaughter
a heel in eighty four to be a drill sergeant or in the Earth before
that. Yes, it could figure it out, like it's he's a military
hero. He doesn't change his character yet all of a suddenhen he confronts Iron
Cheek, he becomes a baby face. It's like, why was he a
heel before? He was the same guy. And there's been a lot of
helpful color that's come in from the Solar System about that. It's it's full
metal jacket, is what it is. Like the drill sergeant is a heel,
right, I mean I guess, but I mean, yeah, yeah,
he's a heel. I suppose Steve writes to it, he's kind of
the best part of the movie. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't mean it's
not entertaining. Yeah, but for a lot of people who came back from
Vietnam or whatever, right and are populating wrestling crowds in the elite seventies and
early eighties, Yeah, I guess that does make sense to see a drill
sergeant. It's almost like seeing. It's almost like seeing like Vince is the
overbearing boss to Steve Austin, you know, it's just an asshole, right,
Everyone you've ever known who's occupied that role in your life has been an
asshole. So, Steven Grossman writes to his following up on drill Instructor's Heels,
I just watched a nineteen eighty four Prices Right episode where when the marine
who gets called up tells Bob he's a drill instructor, there's a notable boo
from a segment of the crowd on the fucking price is right. Okay.
It doesn't get any more mainstream Americana than that. Yes, yes, that
is the pulse of the nation right there, and Bob notes. Steve writes
that it probably came from retired marines. Drill instructor equals instant heel in nineteen
and eighty four. There's your Rentel. There's your color? All right?
All right? Would you say so? Rad Logan, thanks for the pledge.
We appreciate the support on Patreon. Same to you, Harry Aiken,
Thank you very much. Vernon Simosa writes, is it weird? My favorite
part of a recent episode of Wrestle Mamia was Mama sorrow coughing and JP saying
drink some water and her trying to power through. Yes, do you remember
this? Yeah, well this is not this is not exclusive to Wrestle Mamia.
No, she powers through normal thing where she just like she starts,
she gets a fit of coughing, and the last thing she will do is
drink water or like try to stop talking. It's like Vince uh with sneezing,
you know, Yeah, I mean she just like keeps fucking keep going
even though she's like choking on her own saliva. It's like, I don't
fucking get it. But it reminds me of a stop one of my favorite
Beavis and Butted episodes where they're they're so dumb, you know, they're so
stupid. These two they're sitting on the couch and they start choking on nachos,
and instead of doing anything about it, they're turning purple. Instead of
going somewhere seeking help or anything, he just goes this sucks and tries to
eat another one. What sucks is not that he's choking. What sucks is
he can't keep eating nachos, right exactly it, I mean what sucks is
that he can't stop eating right essentially, all right, Steve writes to West
north By Northwest. M extremely loose connection, he says, But Larry Sherman
plays a Cabby in north By Northwest and was later w W Hall of Famer
Donald Trump's publicist. I don't think that counts. No, nice try though,
you want north By north You got me excited. I want that absolutely,
Well, why do you want it? That Hitchcock? Fuck, that's
it. Just Hitchcock about Hcock all the time. Carry Carrie Grand Nash on
the series says, it's like the hits, like the old Hitchcock. You
know, it's doesn't count just because Nash says Hitchcock, you know, does
that mean the fucking the entire Larry Sanders show qualified. Yeah, that means
if there's ever a lacina in a movie. Yeah, right, exactly.
H Vipin Tiwari, thank you very much for your pledge. We appreciate the
support. Sam Fairbanks, a longtime supporter of the show, commenting on our
Unforgiven nineteen ninety nine episode, Right, So, I remember taping this and
I stupidly had the volume two low when I said it going. Consequently,
to even watch it, you had to have the volume on the TV almost
on full, and it had a really bad hiss on the audio. My
only abiding memories are Steve Blackman being outraged at finding Valvenus's sex toys. It's
funny to be outraged about them. That's pretty funny to be pissed off that
he has sex toys. He's funny about what are you mad about? You
were his mom, Davy Boys last main event before he went down the Fuchdin
Jeans Road, and the infamous Kennel from Hell debacle. Bad shows make great
episodes of TLF, and he notes because we talked about how the blue barred
cage is used in the Al Snow boss Man matches, I thought that was
the last time, but sand points out, I think the blue bard cage
was used one last time in a match between Edge and Christian during their two
thousand and one feud. Really, I don't know how easy that is to
verify. I didn't even bother a look yet, but let's see, that's
interesting. Cage Match two thousand and one, edgend Christian Cage Match two thousand
and one. Maybe there's folks in the Solar system remember this. Yeah,
I can see, I can see the barred cage, but it's black painted
black. And they did do that, they did do the thet because Steve
Austin and McMahon. McMahon, yeah, yeah, yeah, So that doesn't
quite count. Stephen writes Stephen Watts, Very Blue has exactly we're talking about
the end of the Blue Cage era. Stephen Watts, Right. I can't
decide if Helen Hart is horrified at Davy becoming a second Stu or gleeful that
Diana is now trapped in the same self imposed hell she has been with Stu.
Well, I think both. Is that ye I was gonna ask what
your thought was, I think both of Matt Actually, I think there's there's
a lot of yeah, there's there's there's it's it's not fun, But at
the same time, she's glad to have other people suffering. I see,
doesn't it doesn't make it worse that others suffering from a similar melody. It'll
never put it that way. Never. It doesn't make it worse, doesn't
you know. It doesn't directly help her, she doesn't bask in it,
But it doesn't make it worse. But it provides, it does provide some
little bit of entertainment, some kind of you know. Yeah, see,
you thought I was a fucking drunk, But no, you're right down in
the ship too. But love that ship. We always talk about, Baker,
love to see people, you know, fall, rise and fall.
What we really love to see is to see someone who said they would never
do something do it. Yes, to see someone who says they would never
be in that position in that position. Yep. You better watch when you
use that fucking word never. You better watch when you use that fucking word
never, yep, because you are incentivizing anyone in your shot to watch like
a hawk for the rest of your days on earth, for the day and
the moment you give in on that principle, and it will make them feel
very self satisfied in that moment because they knew, yes, because they knew
you were a failure from the beginning. They knew you weren't a strong as
you pretended you were. Yep, there's nothing American like coldon that shit than
to see someone fuck it, go back on their word or go back on
their their stance, especially if the stance had any air of judginess about it.
Oh it's on now, baby, Yes, I'll be watching like a
hawk. I'll and I'll make a little note to self when you betray that,
when you betray that stance you thought you took, Cliff writes to us
relevant relevant to Unforgiven ninety nine were Of course, we spent a lot of
time talking about Vince McMahon short lived WWAF title win on television, and that
led if you were called boss to a dialogue about you know how the title
used to change hands a lot on television back then, and it hasn't so
much since you were trying to place the last time the ww world title the
Big Belt changed hands on free television, and Cliff did point out that it
wasn't just that night that Roman speared Vince on like a late December twenty fifteen
episode of Ron took it. The results so Kevin Owens Universal title win on
Ross Aptember twenty sixteen. AJ Styles winning the title on SmackDown. That's right.
That was on SmackDown November twenty seventeen. I think he took it back
off of jenneral Mahal. Then Carmela SmackDown Women's title smacked Down. That doesn't
count. That's what we talk about talking about the WWE Men's World title.
Dagon Brian ww title smacked Down twenty eighteen probably doesn't count. I think that
was the lesser of the two. When Brock beat Kofe for the belt,
that counts. I think kind of, Oh yeah, I forgot about that.
That was on that first SmackDown on Fox. Yeah, and he fucking
buried the shit out of him. Yep. He mentions a Sasha win that
doesn't count. Nikki win, that doesn't count. Biggie winning the title counts.
That was in Minding the Bank cash in. That does count. That
happened un raw in September of two thousand and The reason the women's doesn't count
is because you know, it's not what we're talking about. Well. Also,
the women's belt up until more recently was more of a television championship,
right. It was a belt that would change that could easily change hands on
a on a television episode as opposed to a a pay per view. It's
true, it wasn't as uncommon. The thing about what made it so such
a big deal was that you think about for years, Yeah, like before
like when was the when was the first time that a w the WW championship
in the modern era? Like, so February right, So think about from
Hogan winning it at Madison Square Garden at that house show televised house show was
a televisor just videotaped when who beat Who? Hogan beat Cheek? Oh those
televised Yeah, in New York. So since then because I guess, well,
I guess it would have happened. You him losing the belt would have
been it. But again that's four years in between. And then after that,
do you count Brett winning it on a taping sure as opposed to a
pay per view? Yeah, so then you have the flare, sure,
the flare of savage swing non pay per view. Yeah. Okay, but
still like we're talking about a handful, like we're talking about we can count
literally on one hand. I was talking about in particular about the live weekly
television era. Sure, how often if they sharch the world title on a
weekly post post the launch of Raw, you know, is what I was
talking about. Yeah, well even then. Yeah, so ninety three,
Yeah, the first time it would have changed hands would have been would have
been Brett. And that was such a a crazy thing. It was the
last thing I thought in ninety No, in ninety seven. Yeah, Sid
beating Brett, Oh yeah, that was I I never like, I went
that match wanting Brett to lose because I was so I was like, oh,
here he goes again. And when another fucking title word, and and
then it was one of the things that really solidified my fandomm'm Steve Austin.
Yeah, that was huge. When he came out of cost Brett the belt
and when he came out and waffled him with the chair loved. Sid actually
won the championship on TV, Like it was huge, and that's what led
to the whole thing where Brett shoved down Vince remember that on Raw and said
this is bullshit. Yep, yeah he was. It was the first whiff
of like, as we covered in our ninety seven journey, it was the
first whiff of fans cheering when Steve brought Injustice to Brettheart's doorstep. Yes,
they wanted that. They wanted Brett to eat shit for some reason. It's
tremendous and for them to pick up on it and eventually like run with that
and what that meant about transforming the nature of what a WWF top babyface was.
Yeah, and being in a position like we talked about with Tom earlier,
to have really annored their choice, but to lean into where the heat
was there and just fine, you know, if Steve Austin's going to be
our top face and all the ramifications that has for how our top faces have
to carry themselves and you know how not wholesome they're going to be, So
be it. Oh yeah, And thus a boom period on par with no
other emerged. Mick Wisen, thank you very much for the pledge, my
friend. We appreciate the cake. Rob writes to us, speaking of surprisingly
good Mark Henry matches, because remember there's a pretty good Mark Henry Delo Brown
match and unforgiven. Yes, yeah, that was a little scene stealer there,
it was. He had a match at one of the Brian Pilm memorial
shows two thousand and one, I think, with Hugh Morris, where both
guys busted out a lot of impressive stuff for a couple of really big dudes.
Robb says, I edited a bunch of the documentary interviews on the DVD
set that came out three years ago, around the time the Dark sid episode
had in that whole series of shows might make for a good episode of the
cast someday. That's interesting the Pilm memorial shows. I have not seen that
Mark Henry match. Maybe one day I will make the time to watch it.
Philip Bain writes to us, I love this sheer amount of time and
effort on the Unforgiven show that went into JR and JR saying the word stay.
Yes, how they animal got to the bottom of that. We put
it after the Solar system. No, people think it's maybe JR. Just
putting on a different affect to his voice, as if he's commanding a dog
to stay in the old southern twang. But it sounds like Michael Hayes and
me. But why, I know that's the question once he I mean was
he? I don't know. It's probably not Michael Hayes and miss my point,
but I mean it's it's weird. It's a weird thing, the weirdest,
like almost it sounds like it's coming in from another frequency, you know.
Yeah, like you listen to radio station and you cross like a low
frequencies thing and it takes over for a second. That's what it sounds like
to me. It's almost like like fucking exorcist possession, you know. So
still wait for clarification. I don't know. JR is in tough health these
days, but maybe someone can get the question out to him and play him
the audio and see if you can run Yeah fucking sentence? Was this you,
JR? I don't know he won't totally won. I don't know if
I even if I don't remember saying the time, I might be able to
hear the thing and say, oh, yeah, that's that's a voice I
do you know what I mean? Yeah, I've always ever dine on a
wrestling broadcast per se, But when I was, you know, trying to
channel a certain type of scene or person or point in time, I would
use that voice. Maybe that's so awesome? Is that what you do?
You? You do that kind of thing to make me feel uncomfortable or it
still bothers me to this day. That's stay what was that? Stuy?
Brother? I'm not going anywhere, bro, One day I wasn't even moving
what why don't you stay hating jeep B. Thank you very much for the
pledge, he still says it. How did I move on? Nick Nicky
writes this on Patreon. I posted in the Terry F finale about how I
was working on unionizing my workplace and my personal lap Serendipity is the pay per
view with the referee labor dispute getting a deep dive. The week that we
march on the boss and get recognized, you boys are getting another motor wants
me negotiate and get our raises because you helped me brush this through simply by
being in my ass while I'm on the job. Tremendous. Hopefully you guys,
I would love to love you know. You get people, you know
say wow, you know I've noticed you've really uh you've really up to your
your your game here at works? Like, what uh what you been doing?
Well? I got a podcast at my ass. Okay, fired exactly
right to hr they go right, ted Teddy writes Teddy, and Teddy gets
to the point on Patreon he were recently the pain is the point embrace.
It is pain is the point embrace it, and I ask you to maybe
just quickly boss, maybe for newer listeners, and maybe in the spirit of
TLFX, can you just extrapolate quickly why you responded so affirmatively to a sentiment
like that. Why is the pain the point? Because we can't evolve as
as a species if we don't hurt. Evolution is pain, right, Evolution
is the idea of evolution requires things to happen that didn't happen before. It
requires you to do things that you didn't do before. That's that's it.
It is essential to life. Pain is the only true constant. Wow.
Because what happens if you try to avoid pain? Oh, you get hurt
worse if you try to avoid the pain of doing things you don't want to
do. That's the definition of pain. Oh yes, it's going to come
down on you tenfold easily, So don't ignore it. Accept it. What
is the pain anyway you name it? Wow? I think the pain is
obligation. Uh huh, that's one of them. The pain is like things
that you would never choose to do that you have to acknowledge. You are
powerless to not do lest you destroy something or someone. You must do it.
It's the pain. How it makes it. The pain as you can
is you can't opt out, and it's annoying and it can be very frustrating,
but it's life. Well, yeah, there's a lot of people following
a lot of influencers who're telling themselves there's a way around the pain. We're
telling themselves that the level of maturity they're at it, you know, nineteen
years old can basically be a steady state for them, and they can earn
a lot by making content and that seems like a relatively painless existence, right,
I mean, you're going to the club anyway, why not just interview
drunk girls outside the club and ask the questions about dis right. But that's
trying to avoid the pain. Yes, the pain inherent in the reality that
until you're doing something to earn money that hurts a little bit, that puts
you in a position to do things that you otherwise wouldn't do, you're not
really on track. It's fooling yourself. You're involved in a temporary, ephemeral
exercise. That could be wrong about this, but I think I think unless
you're feeling pain, you're you're not doing adult things. Does this make sense?
Oh? Yeah, absolutely? Embrace the pain. Embrace it, Blake,
right, make it your friend. Well, look, he recognize it
as a necessary precondition to getting what you want, Recognize it as okay,
well, here's the pain, here's the thing that stands in the way,
here's the thing that makes it difficult. And of course anything worth having is
worth working for, right anything? Oh you know what I mean? You
know that goes. If it was easy, everyone would do it, Jimmy
Dugan, hard is what makes it great. Very similar sentiment being expressed here,
very similar. It's just about being able to recognize the pain as necessary
as opposed to something that is to be decried or belly ached about. Life
is pain. Wrestling fans know this. Wrestling fans know this. Oh yeah,
oh yeah. Spend most of your life free time watching this fucking foolishness,
and you can't even talk to anybody about it in your real life because
of how ridiculous it is. That's the pain, right, yes, Blake
writes in an Unforgiven episode subject lind Oh and then all it says in the
body of the email is die And I'm sure you said this, die.
Can you forgive me? Or am I unforgiven? Die? Die? Can
you forgive me? How am I forever unforgiven? It's a great question.
It's a great question. It's the only question over to Hawaii we Go and
our headline weird Unforgiven ninety nine moment. Oh boy, here we go.
This is it. I wasn't going to email you, but when you brought
up the weird moment between j R. And King where it seemed like somebody
took over the feet and said stay, I had to tell my own stupid
story about this. When I was about twelve, I would go to my
local Blockbuster to rent wrestling tapes. Occasionally they would let you buy them because
they only had one copy and nobody rents them anyway. Ain't that the truth?
I asked about Unforgiving ainety nine, and they let me buy it.
I already knew of the kennel from hell Match, so I wanted to get
this tape. I watched it the whole thing and remember hearing the stay moment.
But I kept going because I wanted to finish the show. But as
soon as it was over, I rewound back to the moment because I wanted
to show my mom. As it was late at night, I stopped the
tape went to bed. When I woke up, I wanted to turn the
tape, but it wouldn't play. Yes, I ejected the cassette, and
when I went to pull it out, something the LAPS fan doesn't do by
the way, the tape had gotten snagged and broke, rendering the tape useless
and forcing me to be stuck with this weird moment in my head without any
way of showing people. To this day, I will say to my dog
the phrase down boy, stay followed by guy this day, he would say
it because of that moment. It's been so long that I forgot where it
came from. Oh, that's amazing, that's what we're here to do.
Yes, indeed, and then the greatest podcast ever unearthed it, bringing me
down back down memory lane. Sorry for the long email. That's not long,
it all due, but as you guys represent that wrestling fan friend that
we all long for, I feel the need to share my experience about the
stupid throwaway thing from the show. Take care, and yes, there are
actually about six locations of the Dunks in Hawaii. Wow. My wife enjoys
the coffee and a good Boston cream donut. Every other day. I go
for glazed because I'm a basic bitch. Legitah, listen, listen, all
right. If you like the glaze, the only real thing you can do
to make yourself feel more satisfied is get a fucking bow tie. Oh interesting
choice. The bow tie is one giant ass glazed donut. That's all it
is. Is that your choice? So? What what's your usual donut choice?
Yeah? Oh, I'll tell you what. You know, I love
that. If that's there, I'll get it. It's not always in stock,
but if that's there, I definitely get it. But I also really
really enjoy It's kind of an odd choice, but I love Duncan's blueberry donut.
Sure, it's so good. Break cake donut. Sure, yep.
It's one of the few things they've added to the menus that sticks and isn't
yep, like a season then yeah, it's it's great, Like it's only
one like it's I often have like a craving for that. Well, I
recommend the coffee roll. Oh yes, I can have a coffee roll most
days. Okay, it's like a cinnamon roll basically, but I mean,
but also it's it's again, you know what it it's a glazed donut with
cinnamon it is. Yeah, that's what it is. And it harkens back
to why the word duncan is in the title. Anyway, you would dunk
that in coffee. That's what made it a coffee roll. It doesn't taste
like coffee. It just pairs beautifully with a hot cup of coffee. Right,
and you know exactly you want to be an adult, that's what you
do. Yeah, if you want to be a bitch, go on to
be a bitch. You have like the the new you know, triple Brownie,
you know, explosion right with watermelon in it or something? Right?
All that poor ship Dulton rights, we move up in the catalog Halloween Have
a eighty nine DearS co Chairs was listening done Forgiven ninety nine and was pretty
excited to hear Halloween Have Like nineteen eighty nine was being chosen in the next
victim of the Lapse treatment. Have watched the full show always enjoyed the thunderdomee
cage match between Flaar and Sting and Verse Funk and Muda. It's very fitting.
This episode was chosen as my final sop for the season with Monster Jam
in Philadelphia at the link and this show took place at the Nut of Funk
Philadelphia Convention Center. Whenever an episode from ninet eighty nine and to BAWCW gets
the LAPS treatment, it always makes me happy knowing one of the most underrated
years in WCW gets talked about. Nineteen eighty nine was the year that the
company should have taken off to new heights with the Flair Steamboat rivalryed Terry Funk
coming in, Sting's bigger rise to stardom from eighty eight, and many different
things the company did before the end of the year, But as everybody knows,
by the beginning of nineteen ninety it all went to shit. I always
wonder what the company would have been like had they kept the momentum after the
Bash going into Starcaid, had they not done that tournament setting that's so big
on that Star Kid Memorial tour. When you get to that Star k eighty
nine and it's like a theme tournament deal the Iron Tournament. Yees so stupid?
Yes, so against what made n Toba worth watching In eighty nine,
plus head Sting won the world heavyweight title at Wressell Warre instead of the Bash,
had he not gotten hurt Can't Wait to hear this. One guy's going
to make my trip to Philadelphia even better. Well, I hope it did.
Carlton Glad to be of service, Cliff writes, nothing is more terrifying
than falling asleep to TLF in my ears, oh, only to be awoken
by the raspy, hallucinogenic whispers of Davy Boyce Smith. Oh God, I
want to consider that one talked about an unforgiven ninety nine. How like there's
a referee brawls. They're doing the referee job action as mentioned, Yes,
and Mike Kyota really starts tuning up Jimmy corderis like for real, hitting him
really hard, and Scott Michael Ferry the home. He points out, if
you want to hear Kiyota explain why he went so hard on Jimmy corderis it
comes up about forty five minutes into the July twenty six, twenty twenty three
episode of the ref In It Up podcast where Kyoto was the guest. He
actually starts apologizing before Jimmy can even get into the story and said that he
didn't know what he was doing, but was told to lay the kicks in
so they didn't look like shit, but didn't. I didn't. I can
tell you right now, I never never. Can you come on? Can
you come in please? All right? Door shut all right? I want
you to kick the ship out of Kimmick Cordaires. All right, he's a
scab. Wow, it's just a storyline. It's it's not really shut up,
he's a scab, referee crossing the line. I want you to kick
the ship out of him. I want you to beat him within an inch
of his life. Why why you want me to do that? Boss?
I don't even understand what the point of that is. He needs to be
donal lesson? Why is that? What do you do wrong? What he
did wrong was wake up this morning? Right? Right? Like? Do
I have to explain? Wait a minute, Mike, do I have to
justify to you? Do you need to be taught a lesson as well?
Do you need to meet? Do you need me to remind you that if
I tell you not to wake up in the morning, you better not fucking
wake up. I mean you mean to say it's not enough that I say
he has it coming. And that's not the end of the discussion. You,
somehow are entitled to a greater explanation than that that that's your position.
I don't require allowing you to have an opinion. I don't think that's within
your job description. And I mean I brought opinion on anything, right exactly
opinion. Listen you you you don't have an opinion. You don't have an
opinion about anything. Mike. I gotta tell you, I brought you in
here expecting to use you, you know, as as a helpful partner in
the and the chopping down to size of one Jimmy cordiras. But as I
sit here and as I hear you carry on like this, I must confess
I reconstituting what my mission for the day might be. Let me miss some
Mike. Have you ever been on the receiving end of nunchucks? That's all
fame right there now, Vince, I can't say I have what do you
mean someone hit me with him or something? I mean, yes, I
mean someone taking a pair of nunchaku. Brother and dude, Brother, Terry,
this isn't about you, brother, That's not too far from what I
mean. Brother. Are you talking? Are you talking to Ichi bond Hogan
Son or non Chaku Fatu Son, Terry? I don't know what the fuck
you're talking about. All I'm talking about is I'm going to take a pair
of a nunchucks that I keep under my under the first thing I give in
mind, where does he keep them that I keep under my belt? Why
under his belt? Not on his belt, but I keep under my desk
in a drawer. And I'm going to beat you with him, all right,
And here's the here's the kicker. This is the kicker. This is
the part that you're really going to enjoy. I command you not to defend
yourself, just like Jimmy carneris. That's dude, that's a line for the
ages. I command you not to defend yourself. What's funnier than Mike Yoda
getting beaten to ship by Vince McMahon with nun chucks Mike Yoda not being allowed
to defend himself during such He's been totally canned, not even like and but
that means he can't put his hands up, he can't try to stop the
things from hitting him. He basically just doesn't keep his hands it aside and
let this weapon hit him wherever. Vice the Germans it's appropriate. I can't
believe you ticket there. I did not see that. Have you ever been
beaten by nun chucks no bet on the receiving end. Oh shit, so
that's good stuff. Thanks pal, Matthew Gunn, thank you for the pledge.
I appreciate that solid twenty bucks of support. Mike Reynolds, thank you
for the pledge. Josh writes on Unforgiven ninety nine your co chairs. I've
been a huge fan of the show from the very first episode. Love hearing
your takes in all the classic shows from when it undaddle used to be better
as I'm around the same age and become a fan around the same time.
My dad told me at a very young age that wrestling as a bunch of
fake bullshit. So I so I wasn't a fan through most of elementary school.
I started checking it out from time to time when my friends at school
kept blabbing on and on about some upcoming match between hul Cochan and this Ultimate
Warrior guy. Their excitement got me excited. By the time they started the
build up for Survivor series nineteen ninety, I was an addict for life.
I would wake up early on Saturday fucking morning to catch the first hearing of
Superstars at six thirty a m. I had become absolutely hooked, just in
time for most of my friends to decide they were getting too old for this
shit and didn't want to talk about it anymore. Yeah, that that hits
home. That's many of our trajectories, I suspect. Yeah. Yeah,
you're the guy that's still watching it. You know, Oh my god,
what's wrong with you? Watch that? Jesus Christ? How old are you?
Did you do? You say you watch it Saturday? You just watched
the WWF on Saturday. They're still on TV. Wait wait, you have
it on your you have it on your DVR. You host a podcast about
it. You give guys money, they pay you and you do what?
Oh my god? Now when you go like to conventions, do they like
want to take pictures with you and stuff like? Gee? Wait, you
watch wrestling with your mom and recorded people pay to listen to it? How
much do they what? That's t LFX. That's what we're doing. When
I saw that you were doing a deep dive for and Forgiven ninety nine,
I had a feeling it would be running my first email to you guys,
as this was the first televis show I had ever gone to live. Previously,
the only wrestling show I had been to was a house show in the
Litle Community College's gym, headlined by the Big Boss Man versus the mounting in
the Big Blue Cage that my father had taken my sister and I too.
I have no doubt that my dad was ashamed of this path his son had
gone down, but he was a good sport and bought the tickets to old
doubt one of the happiest memories of my childhood. Even though the Kennel from
Hell is not remembered quite as fondly. I always thought it was cool that
I saw Big Blue at both of my first twelve shows A first two shows.
Rather, I have no problem admitting that Unforgiven nineteen ninety nine is an
awful show, but going to a live televised show a pay per view in
the middle of the editordero was a huge deal to me, and I would
buy those tickets again in a second if I could. Just being there was
exciting, because in the days before the event, I had to deal with
the very real horror that I may not be able to go at all.
At the time, where I lived was about a three to four hour drive
away from Charlotte, As Falvenus was so eloquently mentioned a hurricane had hit North
Carolina a few days before the show and a ton of roads in that state
were closed. My friends and I were still teenagers in nineteen ninety nine and
had no phones to know of every road in our route was even going to
be clear? Think about that, boss, that's crazy. You don't know
if you're going to get free passage. Yep. We left early in the
morning to ensure extra time for any possible to tours, but we got as
far as Myrtle Beach and traffic stopped for the longest two hours of my lush
Jesus, Is the traffic going to start moving in time? Even if it
does, Are all the fucking roads going to be like this? Stone cold
Steve Austin has guaranteed that there will be a new champion tonight, and I'm
going to be sitting in this god forsaken car. God was smiling on us
that day, and we made it to the Charlotte Coliseum with plenty of time
to spare. During your deep dive, you mentioned that the crowd was turned
away from the ring during the XPOC versus Y two j match. Remember this,
boss, They got a chin lock on everyone's turned away. Yes,
right. My seats were behind the hard camera, so I had a perfect
view as some hick held up a giant sign that read eat more Beaver.
It's amazing what can distract a crowd, and it's amazing how we find these
little things, you know, people who were there, Yep. All the
other hick thought it was the most clever thing ever and started channing eat more
beaver whichever remember correctly you could hear on the VHS release. Since that time,
I've been to dozens of w W shows and have seen some pretty memorable
moments, my favorite being when Daniel Brian cashed in his money in the bank.
That moment itself was cool, but even cooler was what happened immediately following.
Our seats at TLC twenty eleven were in the first roun near the entrance.
Basically we were sitting damn near on top of the pyro and yes,
it was hot. After the cash in, some prop guy was walking by
taking the briefcase to the back. My wife shouted down at him to get
his attention. She asked him if she could take a picture of me holding
the briefcase. Into our extreme surprise, he obliged. The actual briefcase proof
attached. I see it. That's cool. However, since since September twenty
six, nineteen ninety nine, whenever conversation comes up or people are sharing stories
of great wrestling moments they have seen in person, first WrestleMania's epic title changes,
debuts of characters that will go on to lead legacies that will last forever.
I have to hang my head in shame and admit that the most memorable
wrestling moment I probably ever see live is the kennel from fucking Hell's right.
That's right, keep up the great work. I have not noticed JP eating
into goddamn microphone in a while, for which I've been really grateful. I'll
just give it a minute. Any chocolate covered pretzels or anything, boss,
nah, and don't have anything. All jokes aside. I'm a huge fan
for what you do and greatly appreciate it. With my job, I usually
am in the car for eighty percent of the day, So I welcome a
seven hour podcast about a time when wrestling was so exciting. I would wake
up before dawn because mister Perfect is about to wrestle some local gas station attendant
and I cannot go on with my day until I know what happens yep,
yep, Josh, I feel you man. That has gone forever, Yeah,
gone forever yep, never come back ever. And we need to thank
faster than Chuck for joining that EP tier. He's faster than Chuck apparently,
Boss Chuck Palumbo. Perhaps I think that I thought that that's what I thought
of first right away. Got to thank Alan Smith for bumping up into that
lade Mote tier swinging his big dick around. That's deeply impressive and appreciated.
Thank you very much for joining the tip top tier. Happened Smithy Anthony writes
at Unforgiven ninety nine, listening to the Unforgiven pot at work currently and when
you guys talk briefly about Kevin Kelly and fully doing the commentary for the Ken
from Hell and realize that, oh my god, this was my first cell
match. Oh god, I'm sorry. When I was younger, I got
the Fully Hard Knocks and Cheap Pops tape and from the Vault HBK one,
but I watched Foley's first Thanks for the blast from the past, guys.
Can you imagine that's your introduction to the concept I don't. I mean,
I guess that's awful. We do lose sight of how privileged reward. It
just happened to be watching every week when they came out with that concept,
so we could see it from the very beginning with Michaels and Taker, because
if you see all that stuff in reverse, I'd imagine it's not as electro
vine. No, I would. I mean, honestly, I would imagine
if you if you didn't see, if you didn't see uh what youman call
it, uh, Michaels and Undertaker, then there were I don't think there
were any really good cell matches. I mean, I know that there was
the spectacle of King of the Ring, but I don't think you would have
the concept of what a hell a cell match could be if that was even
your first, if you had never watched one before that. Yeah, I
feel like you'd almost have the wrong idea of what excited people at first about
hell and a cell. Yeah. Yeah, it's really just it becomes more
about like, oh, what you know, who's going to die? It's
a spectacle. Whoras, of course the Michael's match was a spectacle, but
it had that sort of war games settle a fewed grit to it. Yeah.
Well, and also it was excellent and it told a real, a
real story going the whole way. It wasn't you know, it wasn't just
the two stunts and then call it a day. Yeah. Bran Schmitz,
thank you very much for your increase in pledge. We appreciate the support.
Same to you, Lee Salisbury. Welcome to the Inner Circle. Marcus Crouch,
thank you very much as well. Cliff makes an interesting remark or observe
they had the referee strike at unforgiven ninety nine. We remember this, of
course. Yes, this may be untieing to the nineteen ninety nine Major League
Baseball Umpires Association mass resignation. That would make sense, which, according to
a link he provided, was a labor tactic used by sixty eight MLB umpires,
including sixty six members of the Major League Umpires Association. They were unable
to strike because they had a labor agreement in place, so fifty seven of
them formally resigned by orchestrated letters. I don't know what why that would catch
the attention of the wrestling business orchestration in an attempt to force negotiations for a
new labor agreement. So I always appreciate what's going on in the zeitgeist that
may have informed these seemingly random creative inspirations these wrestling companies get speak. Speaking
of orchestration, did you happen? Did you watch any of the Boston Pops
concert over the fourth I did not. I mean, have you seen any
image of Key Lockhart in the last year or two? I would I would
love for you to do it for me. I mean, what did what
did you see? He just I mean, yeah, he'sn I gotta give
him that, he's sixty four, but man, he just looked like he
was about to just fall apart. His face is so like droopy and his
I know, it's a hot day, obviously, you know it's a hot
it's a hot night, but man, he's the sweat just was just absolutely
inappropriate. Like he just he looked like he was the person who was having
the least fun on the fourth of July. He probably was. Probably we
know him and his misery, I know, I do, I do.
I mean, he's like he just looks old and and just just a shell
of his former shell of himself. It's coming up on his version of these
final two Roger Moore Bond Films. Indeed, indeed he is. I heard
there's some caked up makeup coming. There there is some cake makeup coming.
And you know what, what do you expect when you get like a fifty
six year old man playing James Bond? Teddy, thank you very much for
the ep level pledge. We appreciated Andrew Brister coming strong into that mote tier.
Look at you maya good longtime supporter. Always good to see cash on
the table. Thank you so very much for all you do. Christian Hollister,
same to you, a Day one Solar System member as you know around
these parts. Rus, thank you very much for your pledge to have wrestling
gifts is back in the spot. We want to thank you once again.
Oh no, russo not that I can detect yet. Rus is the kind
of guy that would you know, pay for your Patreon under a fake name
just so we could like like passive aggressively respond without mentioning it in like a
like a vague tweet. You know, those those operators can be Vernon Somosa.
Thank you very much. Welcome to the mote tier. My friend Jeff
writes, I'm forever grateful that fake fighting never came to my small town in
time as a newspaper journalist, I would have definitely been my turn in the
office of that added. Yeah, no small part of like scar tissue from
me in that character. You know, sure, that's part of what's going
on there. It's just like the deep anxiety had causes when you get these
completely arbitrary missions. You know, Oh, I can imagine just come back
and say it's fake, like because the editor, the editor doesn't want to
show their hand and basically the editor doesn't want to acknowledge that the only reason
you're doing the story is they have like a personal hang up about the subject.
You know, they can't because that's not there's no integrity in that.
So they have to like manufacture newsiness to get what they want in the paper.
Eric stop, Oh yeah, that would be nice. It's all a
fraud. Eric Hodges, thank you very much for your pledge. Christopher Reader,
thank you very much for your support on Patreon. Damon Ivy, thanks
for bumping up the support that you see warranted. This This from an atom
two on Patreon. He makes a comment underneath the carnies or forever diamonds are
forever Yes, you're right, So this film works as a deranged animal to
the WWF early nineties sex scandal. Oh Rory Hodgson viewed himself as James Bond
and then two obviously queer coded Double O seven villains or Pat Patterson and Terry
Garvin. There we go. Did I not make a reference to them?
And maybe I did? I don't remember. Mitch Gee, welcome in to
a high level pledge elite circle. We appreciate that support in that denomination.
We talked about the Ruse Sneakers the WCW had an endorsement deal with in eighty
nine as part of Halloween Havoc ninety eighty nine. Do you remember that?
Yes? I did put the zippers on them. I mean, I try
not to, but you know, I have to remember things. I have
to them well them Sometimes they just bury themselves in my memory. Fortunately for
us, more than one member of the Solar System remembered this particular line of
sneaker and had personal experiences with them. Philip Wrights on Patreon, My brother
had a pair of Ruse with their odd pockets for smuggling juice and rigs.
No doubt come from what I can tell, they were no they were only
big enough to hold like four dimes. I don't know what the fuck complete
with WW endorsement stack of dimes, that's for sure. So this guy had
the w c W ruse prominently featuring the Steiner brothers. It's actually kind of
funny because the WW ruz. That's hilarious ruse. Oh yeah, it's the
ruse in general. It's all a ruse featuring the Stiner brothers. Even even
as a child in the early nineties, I thought this endorsement was as odd
as it was cool, though I was familiar with the talent thanks to my
factually questionable and dull as dishwasher to play WCW SuperSlam card game, copy of
which I gifted to Jack and JP for Christmas twenty three. Yes, this
is that Phil bringing us that Super Slam card game boss. Oh yes,
that was that was a weathered box that did it. One of one of
these days we got to actually get around to playing it. That's probably some
that's some fucking uh Patreon ship right there. That's a great idea, a
doubt, I know. My friend John Bouchet on the Chart of the Territories
podcast has made quite a thing out of doing the Gordon solely uh trivia game
for in a podcast format, and that's pretty cool. Yeah, that's something
else we've received courtesy of of the intrepid members of the Solar System. And
look a look at him, look at his face, look at him?
Why what what do you want to build a case against him for? I
mean, he looks he looks engaged. Yeah, he looks like he's engaged
in some kind of pornography. Not at all, he looks he looks so
much better than you are describing. Yeah, this guy such short shrift.
He's he looks like he's about like look at his mouth is hanging open.
Yeah, well that's just the moment they caught him in the in the photo,
he's just uh, he's awful. It's an embarrassment. There is someone
the Boston Pops, Okay, like John Williams never looked like that when he's
gone to the Boston Pops saying it looks like he's trying to hold on to
like he's dyeing his hair. It's a little he's hold on dear life is
a little who's that woman screaming with the microphone? I don't know, I
have no idea Debbie Gibson or some other great Boston exponent with Donna Summers.
So that's the ruse. There's more to come, as she could. Oh
yeah, he's to ex calhoon. I had a red, a pair of
red and white ruse. The pocket was completely impractical, meaning that the entire
shoe line, name and all was built around a disappointingly useless gimmick. But
I still knew for certain that when mom bought them for me being new,
they'd make me run faster. That's right, of course. Do you remember
that era where faster, stronger and whatever else where sneaker companies were literally trying
to sell you in the idea that if you bought these, let's say,
Rebock pumps, that you would actually have increased performance of course, that you
could fly almost. I fucking, I fucking buy I had my, my,
my, my, my pair of pumps. At one point. You
bought into it. Absolutely. I thought for sure I played better basketball.
And when you when you pump those things and they hug those ankles, you
you were in a different headspace, weren't You didn't hug shit? Such a
joke, fucking bullshit, Like like I remember, like I like I don't
know what I expected, but I can imagine that I felt. I wanted
to feel like, I don't know, Superman after I pumped those things twice.
But it's like, okay, it feels like a shoe, look like
anything. It was so fucking but when you press the release button, it
went. Yeah. That also happened when I when I passed gas. So
uh, our good friends Steve and Jillian on the last live call did what
they always do, but we didn't get to it. You were indisposed anyway,
but that's that's no excuse I didn't get to it. They'd like to
drop a quarter in the lap lapsed jukebox during live calls to get some renditions
from the boss man. Uh, what did I? What do I need
to do? Because during modern w B pay per views, of course,
there's always down time for your coachers when we're delivering live calls to the Solar
System via Areon, and so this was their requests. It's it's obviously a
bit belated, but we hope it suffices. Jillian Wrights, it's been about
a year since we've done this, and we might be a few mimosa as
deep as we get ready for the show. But in the spirit of Andrea
the Giant, we thought we'd throw a quarter in the lapsed jukebox to get
lapsed Andre's singing Maudis's porcois to celebrate all things French. Hell, maybe Dusty
will want to join into Oh God and again. This is just another example
of how enterprising you can be, where if you have the sort of one
off bit of appreciation for us, you can just drop a digital tip in
the jar. Just tige the lapsed fan at gmail dot com or PayPal yep,
send it our way like they did, and let us know what the
sentiment is behind the extra vigue that's right for those fucking chairs. Are you
in a position to deliver? Boss? I am in as I guess yeah,
Okay, we're gonna have to a good start. Ah yesh ship,
we're Dusty Hello. Even when he's singing a techno song, he's like he's
locked in a basement. It's just pain, that's all. All the Saint
Fans. Graham a wonderful member of the Solar system. Always good to hear
from him, and I want to appreciate his support on Patreon. Gabe MacDonald
welcome in appreciate the pledge, Logan writes on Halloween Havoc eighty nine and now
Vira. You remember boss, how the Turner Home Entertainment folks were feeling ambitious
in those early days of WCW pay per views and actually tried to help them
promote it by bringing some celebrity star power to the table. Yes, is
Logan's recollections. All right, here we go, hey, co chairs,
after your Halloween Havoc eighty nine episode, and I needed a write in with
something I've been meaning to share with you guys for a while. You talked
about Elvira a bit since she was in the commercials for Havoc eighty nine,
and in twenty twenty one, she released her autobiography, Yours Cruelly Elvira.
I recommend the book. It's an easy read, but it's still a funny
and in depth detailing of her interesting career. I write to you for one
passage though, which is relevant to last week's episode. At the end of
chapter twenty three, page twenty twenty, she writes, heights quote. Soon
more appearances came my way, a third guest bottom on The Tonight Show,
a presenter at the MTV Movie Award, MTV Awards, sorry not Movie Awards,
MTV Awards, a host of Monday Night Football, a guest starring spot
on the Magical World of Disney, and even co hosting even a coosting job
on TBS's Halloween Havoc Wow, where I got to rub elbows with the likes
of wrestling legends Rowdy Rody, Piper, Jesse Ventura, and Hulk Hogan.
Yeah, exactly, that's what happens. I don't remember them being in a
crocket in eighty nine, or I do, Actually I do. I thought
it wasn't that the wasn't it staying in Flair versus Hogan and Piper? Would?
I mean, yeah, she meets those guys throughout her career and just
like stuffs them into this one story. Well, she probably doesn't remember WrestleMania
two versus Halloween havocaty nine. Yeah, well that's probably what she's thinking.
Oh yeah, it's probably one fucking thing in her mind. Like she doesn't
I'm sure she doesn't know the difference between w WE and WCW. I don't
know. It's just weird to remember Wrestlminga too is Halloween Havoc. I think
she again, I think she remembers both things as being the same event,
Okay, and I don't know, I mean maybe actually, and given her
character, she probably I'm not surprised that she remembers Halloween havoc over WrestleMania.
Yeah, she's all gothy and showing her tits and shit. Well, she
was representative of a particular moment in time. Yeah, that's true. So
thanks for the dispatch slogan, Jesse Harrison, thank you very much for your
support. We appreciate you throwing some coin at us via Patreon. Same to
Cyrus the Virus, who recently uped his pledge to get a taste of that
cinemat action A Ray Sanson, what's that? I said, Yes, Mike
Pulin, thanks very much for that mote tier level support. Unbelievable stuff.
Zach wants us to know boss that, butware of dog still gives him anxiety.
Oh I'm I'm not surprised that's it should wrot, he said. I
watched all WWA pay per views live that year, and I was losing my
shit when the feet dropped. Of course, being pretting internet at my house,
at least I had no idea if it was just an issue for our
box or what. I watched the screen hoping it would come back for what
felt like hours on end until they came back on for the main event.
I recorded every WAFTV show and pay per view when I'm on my VCR,
and was meticulous about not including dead space or commercials. So I, of
course was sitting there the entire time, my finger hovering over the record button
got Do I remember that? Man? Remember your VCR skills? Oh?
God, yes, absolutely, you would hit I remember hitting the record button
and then hitting the record again to pause recording. You didn't stop, yep,
because if you stop it, it tended to march back two or three
seconds and clubs. Of course, of course, it causes an immense amount
of problem. Did you ever try to edit commercials out of your recordings?
Absolutely? Absolutely, I always did. I always tried to. What I
would do is if for some reason, God, I can remember the fucking
clicker I used to use too, so I would try as soon as the
screen went to black, I tried to pause. If I happened to go
a little too far, what I would do is try to rewind it.
I'd play it, I'd stop it for a second. I was always horrified
at this because I was always convinced that whatever I was watching was gonna come
right back right before, like way faster than any other commercial break in the
history of time. And I would play it back and then pause it right
when it and then i'd you know, try to get it as close as
possible to showing no commercial interruption. Wow, so that it was just like
a black screen. Yeah, rarely worked. Rarely worked. That's like,
damn it impossible. You know, it was so hard back then because there
was always like a moment of delay, and I just you know, if
it wasn't done completely right, you know, you'd you'd like you'd almost have
to start recording again right as the last commercial was ending to starting your baseball
swing in a batting cage before the ball even comes out, when you're in
the ninety mile an hour one exactly exactly like you got you gotta be you
got to hit it. You got to start acting where it's going to be,
not when it's already there. Yeah, And you couldn't always count on
a straight second of black before they came back to or out of a commercial
at all, not at all. And again you didn't know you could.
Only you could only guess as to what the last commercial was going to be,
right right, You never really knew. God, that's so high stakes.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. It was like the you know, and
then and then you get to sit there and you every time you watch that
tape and you watch that failure of really getting the proper amount like just black
to coming back, which there was also that little glitch anyway, there was
that little tape glitch that happened, which was also very annoying, like you
never got it perfect, oh like seamless, like fade out and fade back
in. No. I brought it to the story before. One thing I
used to do is I had a lot of rap tapes, a lot of
swears on them, and if I want to play them, you know,
around my parents and car or something, I would try to dub them to
another tape and hit fast forward over the swears. That's really funny, you
know. And it was. It was hard. It took many it took
many, many attempts, and I didn't always get it. But it's it's
similar to what we're talking about here. Yeah. I was so like Zach,
so meticulous about recording pay per views in the mid to late nineties or
anything wrestling related, and I had to like label the things the same,
and I would break the tab so that no one could tape over. Remember
you could take the little black tab off. Oh yeah, absolutely, yep,
I definitely do that. I mean what, I chew on them sometimes,
but I spit them out. I mean, you know, I remember
I was so there. There was a song do you do you remember song?
Mister Wendell? No, do you remember that by arrested Development Maybe mister
Windo, Yeah, mister Windo. Anyway, I Kiss went Await, Kiss
went o Wait had a version of this. I mean, I'm sure other
radio stations did too, But Kiss went O Wait had had a version of
this song that involved like it was just an upbeat. It was a total
remix of the song with with kind of more like dance pianos and whatever.
Like. It was very it was very upbeat versus the the original version of
the song. It was a little more melancholy. And so I loved this
new version, and so I wanted so badly and I tried to find like
you couldn't find it in stores. You couldn't find this remix, And so
I wanted so badly to get this. So I would sit by the fucking
radio, yes, all right, and I had a tape ready to go.
I was actually, this was what I was gonna do, okay,
because you could do this back then. I was going to My plan was
to tape over on the on the on the the the the professional cassette tape
that I had. I was going to tape over the version on on the
fucking professional tape with this remix, so that whenever I listened to the the
the album, I would have the remix in there. Except I didn't know
at the time that to record over tapes it had to cover the little things,
the little tabs on t did tape on top. So I'm sitting there
waiting for it, and then it finally hits probably waiting for like an hour
by a fucking radio to get this one song, and I keep trying to
press record and it won't go down, and I'm freaking out, like why
is this happening? Why is this happening? And then I realized a wait,
like why do my other tapes record these? And I said, oh,
they have these fucking tabs, so fucking pissed off. Yeah, those
those honestly were lessons you had to learn the hard way when we were guess
exactly, but what what what a fucking discovery it was? I mean,
oh then it was. It was a game changer after that because you could
repurpose all these useless tapes that fucking Columbia House or whatever would send to your
house too, exactly. So I never you know, it took me until
I'm going to say, like five years ago for me for me to able
to be able to find that that remix of the song. Wow. I
tried like every now so it would happen every now and again, you know,
like I forget about it obviously, and uh uh, you know,
all throughout high school. But then when when the Internet became a thing,
I would, you know, oh you know what, especially when Napster was
a thing, Okay, I was like I would have gone the hunt for
hunt. I'm a hunt. Could never find it, could never find it
at all. I've download so many fucking versions of mister Wendell and was all
the same goddamn original song. Unreal. I'd go on YouTube, you know,
like like when YouTube became a thing, I would go on you know,
try to like every now and again, just like huh, you know,
I haven't looked for that in a while. How was he even find
this fucking version of the song? Never never ever found the version of the
song. And then I don't even know how I stumbled on it, but
I did eventually find it. I was like, holy shit, Well,
holy shit. Used to be that simple, you know, you were allowed
to have those kind of missions, you know, and just to pursue them
in your own solitude. You know, you didn't put a message out to
a message board or a Reddit forum and get it solved in ten seconds.
You just had to wander along into your discovery one day. And for Zach,
he's sitting there trying to keep the integrity of his No Dead Space v
VHS collection intact during the outage that was the Beware of Dog pay per view.
So he's sitting there, finger hovered over the record button, not wanting
to resume recording until they got the live feedback from the arena there in South
Carolina, and he writes, I did not go to the bathroom, get
a drink or avert my gaze from the screen for one fucking second. How
could you I mean that that that feed was out like an hour and a
half I did. I left, As I talked about in that episode,
I left the house for a little while and came back in and was like,
what still not on? It's unreal. You can imagine the stress,
Like, Okay, now I have to press it to press it, look
away, not look back. I'm actually so related. Didn't I didn't have
to go through that on that. This wasn't this was not This was not
a pay per view that would have been good for you. No, the
way this played out, I imagine I would have gone through a lot of
trauma, so much uncertainty as to whether it's actually a problem on your end.
Yep. God. When they announced the replacement Beware of Dog Part two,
that was pretty cool, And it was super cool when they later showed
pictures of what happened when the lights went out, having all those matches more
or less than the dark. I can't remember if those pictures were on a
TV show or in WWF magazine. It was on Aazon raw. They showed
a quick clip of a Austin and Savio in the dark. I know that.
Side note. I went to the raw taping for everything leading up to
the show in Sioux City, Iowa. The angle with HBK and Bulldog involving
Diana was very confusing and random to me as a thirteen year old. Not
quite as confusing as seeing Golddust groping an unconscious Undertaker after mankind put him out.
It could be my memories inaccurate, but as I remember it, Goldust
was legit trying to locate the Bone and the Bone Skull Crew that night.
This would be the last time my dad's friend Martin dagged along to a WWF
show. Yeah, So we talked about that bit in the episode, about
how those reports that when they taped that episode of raw. Of course it
never made air, this part of it that Goldust actually was feeling up the
thigh of the Undertaker, and it's got to take advantage of the fact that
because he's dead, he can't quite do anything about it. He had to
lay there dead. And I asked Ach about that. He came back.
Yes, actually, I do one hundred percent remember that it was actually Goldles
licking his way up the Undertaker's thigh. That's insane. And when I said
that to him, he said, yes, I do remember that until you
confirmed it, though, he writes I had chalked it up in my head
to my imagination. Oh wow. The overall segment that occurred in felt very
long, and Mark Callaway had it to lay still the entire time, the
good old days. That's it. That's all right there, Fluke Jones.
We want to thank you very much for your pledge on Patreon. My friend
Rob wants us to know about another podcast that we've inspired. It's great to
hear from members of the Solar System reaching in and definitely definitely cool to see
and we wish him the best in that endeavor. It's really want to give
him shout out. It's really cool to see what he's working on there and
how Tia Left can play a role and inspiring that content. Ben, what
are they doing? It's that I just had it. Let's see it's Marvel
related. Oh cool? Ye. But Rob's out there if anyone wants to
reach out, I'm sure Rob Holden podcast Google will get you where you need
to be. But he can. He send us so many messages and now
I'm having trouble finding it. Let's see podcast you inspired? Brother? Oh,
I'm getting nowhere. Sorry, back to it, let us see here.
Now I'm all off my game. There we go, all right,
Chad Lindquist, thank you very much for the pledge. Constant supporter in our
corner. Roland Salaurent am I staying that right, Saint Laurent, thank you
very much. Damien Thorn, thank you for the pledge. As always chatter
about Miami of Ohio when we were talking about Brian Pillman, probably at the
eighty nine Halloween Havoc Show, like why would that be the name of the
place, But Joseph Rousso points out Miami of Ohio is named after for the
Native Americans that populated the area, right, I've always want my cousin went
to That was always funny thing for me. My cousin went to the University
of Miami in Ohio, and I was always like what the fuck? Like
why why is that? It's just so confusing. It's so confusing, Like
you know, Northwestern is in Chicago, right, It's like, how is
that in the northwest? Right? But it's of course, you know,
in the founding of the nation, before there was much settlement past Illinois.
Good time for that shit? What it was the northwest of the country.
It was very bizarre, is indeed, Kirk writes to us, writes on
Patreon and this is relevant to I think be aware of dog as it is.
I was eight years old. My dad and I ordered this show and
had no idea where there was a blackout. The screen was just blue the
whole time. It kicked back on for the main event. Afterwards, I
went outside to shoot hoops and tripped chasing after a missed shot and broke my
wrist. That's tremendous the things we were. That was probably the son now.
I broke my wrist two summers before that, jumping in onto a hoop
that was like nine feet tall off the hood of a car, and I
tried to grab it with both hands but kind of came up short, so
just grabbed it with one and I swung off the rim and couldn't hold on
with one hand and came crashing down. How did it feel to be an
idiot so bad? And like your hand feels like so numb that yeah,
it feels like you're touching someone else's hand when you touch your own hand because
you lose that feeling. Yep. Matthew of Madison, thank you for the
pledge, my friend. We appreciate it. That's a good point. Cliff
asks brothers. You can't post this stuff while I'm at work. How am
I supposed to explain to my superiors that I soiled myself because a cast just
launched itself right into my cinnamon ring? Well, I mean just say that
and see what happens from wrong with that. Beware of Doug and Vengeance.
This one from our friend Jeff Boss. If you could, you could be
so kind to regale the solar system, I will do what I can.
Gentlemen, thank you for your recent through two recent episodes that tell the stories
of me going lapsed but getting sucked back into the sport of kings in the
mid nineties, I would always lapse from wrestling in the summer. Summer was
for playing baseball. I don't have any memories of Beware of Dog, but
you mentioned how this show took place around the same time Scott Hall went to
WW. I hadn't really watched much wrestling at all in ninety six. I
had pretty much weaned myself out of wrestling when I went back to school in
the fall of ninety six. But I hear kids talking Razor moaning Diesel are
on WW, and even better, they're going by their real names Scott Hall
and Kevin Nash. Then I learned that whole Cogan is a bad guy and
he's team with these two. Needless to say, I had to learn more.
It only took one conversation with the quote wrestling kids to get me fully
reinvested in the fake fighting Again, your Vengeance podcast brought back similar memories.
By ninety nine, I was also playing basketball for the school, and really
at the time wrestling was strange, the ministry stuff, that the gross out
stuff, And even at fourteen years old, I knew Russo wasn't for me.
Here's another pay per view. I think he means unforgiven. Yeah,
I was. I was coming around to that. Yeah, Vengeance is a
two thousand and one development innovation. That's post nine to eleven. Literally,
I got a nine to eleven email right here, so it's gonna be great.
Here's another paper view. I have no memories up. But again,
if it wasn't for my wrestling friends, you'd be twenty dollars poor every month.
In twenty twenty four, I got to think, and why did I
watch? Why did I watch? Again? If I didn't watch any nine
wrestling at all, But it's the SmackDown video games for PS one. I
had a friend who owned the game, so when he fired it up,
I learned about all these new guys in the FED. Chris Jericho is in
w and Alley. Who are these Dudley boys? And why is it so
awesome when they throw guys through tables? The Hardys look goofy in retrospect they
look they always just look goofy. No retrospect there, but as a fourteen
year old in two thousand, they were cool as hell. Eddie Guerrero was
there too, and redacted. I had no idea who Kurt Angle was either,
but fuck I was hooked when I saw this motherfucker throwing Germans and locking
ankles. I really appreciate the way, after ten years, the Lapse fan
can still connect me to my childhood and help me make sense of who I
was then and who I am today. Wrestling's power over us is crazy,
isn't it. I love these two episodes because these are completely random, shitty
pay per views no one thought twice about a week after they happened, and
your research and relentless pursuit of the story tells us a lot of important shit
happened here. Love the casual no any format you are going right now and
can't wait for what's next. Jeff, Yeah, you we're distrapping ourselves in
pal They have no idea what's around the corner. No, not at all,
Gummy Davidson, thank you very much for your support. We appreciate the
pledge. Christian notes on our hellomeon habitcaty nine show. I don't know if
anyone ever noted this, but the Robin Green character portrayed by woman was based
on who do you think, uh, oh, Robin Gibbons ing Ning Ning.
That's correct, very good, Robin Green being a play in the name
Robin Gibbons Christian Wrights, who by nineteen eighty nine was seen as a gold
digger who was only after Mike Tyson's money. Many people swore she was the
reason he fell off and ended up losing to Buster Douglas, who just happened
to be for my hometown of Columbus. Yes, Robin Gibbons. She was
a star of television right stage screen. Yeah, she did some stuff.
But of course she accused Mike Tyson of was it physical sexual battery? I
think both was both. I think it was some kind of domestic abuse something
like that. Yeah, that was some definitely a flashpoint story in the late
eighties. So good call out there. Leave it up to wrestling, you
know, to see that and go that's heat sure and see her as the
heel. Yeah, oh yeah. Carlos Mascarenas coming in with such a bold
and vainy mote tier level bledge right out of the gate. It's important to
remember she was the problem. God it comes Carlos celebrating greatness, he writes
to the Chairman aka the real two dudes with attitudes. I used to think
I knew what a wrestling podcast would or should sound like. I was right
until I heard the way this the motherfucking TLF podcast is, was and always
will be. Replace Ringo and George with actual talent and John and Paul with
chair shots to the ego, and you have my exact opinion of what true
greatness really is. John Lennon getting shot is just a shooter hitting an easy
target. Meanwhile, the LAPS Fan podcast shoots all targets at will and drops
the haters like a bad dungeon of doom gimmick. Yes, I've never been
afraid to express my love and or devotion for anything or anyone, and as
such, I want to say that you have my undying support forever and the
interest of redundancy. Here's some shit you already know. You're the best there
is, was, and the very fucking best there ever will be. Holler.
After being a freeloader for four months, Rationale kicked my leg out of
my other leg, and I saw the fucking light. The content that you
two deliver on abashedly and with passionate fervor convinced me to choke slam a fifty
spot through a work table with shoot, goddamn intentions. I'm proud to do
so. Yes, based on the passion and work that you both so easily
show every single time, I can't imagine what a four to seven hour podcast
would require. The research and show preparation has always stood out to me.
You're truly exceptional. I loved King of the Ring ninety five, the show
I first heard you guys murder. Holy shit, that was the second episode,
wasn't it? Ah? Yeah, I think it was. The Lap's
nation always has a love story and connecting experience, and I'll make mine very
short, I stated, stared rather at the television set when I was five
and thought I watched what wrestling taught me, only to turn forty and listen
to what wrestling was still teaching me, and with more love and detail.
The real megapowers are Jack and Jpak, the guy who mispronounces his surname,
and the dude who lets Vince McMahon make periodical voice takeovers. I worked fifty
four hours per week on average in Colorado Springs, the city Goldberg dropped Pike's
peeked down several feet the night he took a stop side to the head before
he speared Ron Breese and finished Raven for the US title. Yeah, that
was a big night. I was at the World Areada that night, April
twentieth, nineteen ninety eight, and I've never been more grateful for wrestling nostalgia
since finding your podcast and humbly joining the lapsed fan Patreon. Thank you for
truly for all you do for us listeners. Believe it or not, it
extends further than just the content. It's brotherhood, it's a listening fandom.
Most importantly, it's a way of life. Agreed. You've heard testimonials much
better than mine, but I hope you understand they're all true. You make
life better. That's why we can't stop listening ever lapsed since ninety nine.
Thanks Ja and Jack Carlos, Well, thank you Carlos. This is pretty
much why we do it right there. Yeah, I agree they were just
bullshitting, and people come back to us and say, this is what it
means that you share that bullshit with everybody. That's a sustainable model as far
as I'm concerned. Zach writes Jr. Saying Stay is the breakout drop of
twenty twenty four so far gets him every fucking time. Shane Sinclair, we
want to thank you for the pledge. Andrew Mackinson, Thank you very much
for your increased vig to your fucking chairman. Jeff's back with mora scar tissue
from his newspaper reporting days. He writes, as a former print newspaper reporter
myself, I obsess over the lapsed editor. I imagine that these nineteen eighties
and nineties newspapers he touched down on were pretty blue collar. The editor was
a local guy who held the city accountable but still love the city he covered,
So while he wasn't looking to bury anyone, he thought integrity was important.
His reporters felt the same, so they thought it was kind of fun
to have wrestling in town, but they had to let the public know they
knew it wasn't real. Yes, then I imagine this nutcase commando type dropping
like a nuclear weapon. He cares too much. That's the issue. Hitting,
hitting the editor and reporter, hitting them, hitting them he does.
He does commit acts of He strikes them. He strikes indeed, brandishing a
weapon, tearing apart their cheap offices, screaming at their readers, just the
general chaos that he causes over the course of a few days before jumping out
of a helicopter and lands right in the center of town as he yells for
them to all fuck off. Yeah, in this scenario, I picture John
Candy, he writes as the original newspaper editor and Mike Haggerty is his reporter.
That's funny. Definitely can see Candy as that well meeting local guy.
Yeah, that's very funny. Fucking ay, that's really funny. William Webb
has a good question, is a community can we agree on the phonetic spelling
of bulldogs asp I think that is becoming an important sound to TLF. I
would say there's the It definitely starts with an H. That's what that's what
we can do. H A A A G H is what I would like
A Really I think of more O's in there, like he could be It
could be that too. He's so deprived of like oxygen basically, you know
what I mean, He's so he can't breathe in without having like crack in
it. Oh yeah, exactly, They're right. That's the thing. There's
just constant crack going on. Why why did we do this to ourselves?
I mean, Summer Slam ninety two was such a core memory. Now all
I think about is him smoke because he ruined it. That's why you ruined
it. It is his fault, isn't it? Fuck him? It is
rest in peace ruined it. David Melson, thanks for the pledge. Welcome
to the Executive producer tier. We've course covered WWF European Rampage in Milan,
Italy in nineteen eighty three with some of the most money commentary you've ever heard
from Dan Peterson. The most Italian of names, of course, a fucking
the most fucking you know, mill America Italian I've ever I've ever fucking heard
in my life, like Domino's Pizza Italian exactly. Yeah, James writes into
us subject line ww Italy co chairs. I can't give you any inside on
WWF in nineteen ninety three Milan, but do have an Italian wrestling recollection for
you, and this is probably the closest they'll get to being relevant. I
wrote in during the Bruno tribute that my grandparents were huge Brutal fans. By
the time they arrived at America, Bruno was already WWWF champion. I'm not
sure if they were fans before, but they were lifelong fans, and since
my parents worked a lot of nights and weekends, I spent a lot of
time with them, watching mostly wrestling and boxing. A few times my grandparents
took me and my sister to Italy to see the country, visit family,
et cetera. I remember my Italian family asking me about what it was like,
as you do with a kid, and I would tell them wrestling,
among other things. Nothing out of the ordinary, just friendly conversation with extended
family. A few years later we visited it again and I had already started
my obsession with reading wrestling history and learning about the different promotions. By this
time, I was a teen and also had the knowledge that former w F
jobber. Salvator Blomo was a big star in Catch Brother, Salvator Blomo in
Catch Boss. Yeah, I can, I can, I can picture,
I can, I can. I can picture sal Blomo as a as a
catch talent. That's that's what the girls said in his high school, that's
for sure. When I asked my family if they remembered him, their response
was essentially, no, you still watch that stuff? Yeah, yes,
yes, you know that's just fake, right, what's the matter with you?
Well, Bruno was real, but mmmm. That is when I learned
that the shame of being a pro wrestling fan is in fact, pause international
shame. Ring the bell, Robert Hayes, thank you very much for your
pledge. Eric Holman, Welcome to the executive producer to here, Tony Fernandez,
thanks for the vote of confidence in your increased pledge. We appreciate it.
Wal to figurero Well, Welcome into the executive producer here. Zachariah Rariya,
thank you very much for your support. Trevor Thomas Shiro want to thank
you very much for the cake. Same to you, Brett Robinson, welcome
in. Thanks for deeming us worthy. Michaelson points out a mistake I think
we made on the Beware of Dog show. He writes, the first time
take her face mankind and TV was in your house. Seven good friends,
better enemies, not King of the Ring ninety six. I always think of
King of the Ring is their first collision? Really they wrestle at that show?
Is he making me correct something that wasn't even wrong? That happens too
often? Good for right now here, because I'm very curious. I don't
recall that at all. I remember being gold Dusty wrestled on that show.
Umm it is. Yeah, it was dark match, so it doesn't count.
No, I'm sure they wrestled more times than that if you count house
shows. Dark matches don't count. On a nice try view, I appreciate
the effort, but no, Peter Tavares, let me let me say this,
like wrestling always says, if it didn't happen on TV, it didn't
happen, right, Well, it just you know, how was I didn't
know that in a pre internet era, it didn't air on television tonight ninety
six. You know, Peter Tavares, thank you very much for your pledge.
We appreciate the support. Same to you, Jeff Poppus and Amelia Za
don always appreciate that support. Jason Penitext, thanks very much. Welcome to
the VIP tier. Ben Oddsley bumping up that support to get a taste of
Under the Cinemat and all that awaits him in the Executive producer tier. Indeed,
Timothy McCarty pointed out something that Vince said not too long ago that I
think is really pressing it. Just one quote and so man on coffee quote,
I think you said this, I always have a pot going. Just
think just how you just think about that across the generations. You know,
ye think about Vince as such as he was in nineteen seventy six. I
was a pod going Canary jellow suit hosting his dad's TV show, Sanka on
Tap. Oh, yes, I mean, come on, the guy always
he bruised like he wouldn't believe. The guy believes in coffee. Yes he
is, definitely. Yeah. Some people believe in in God, some people
believe in whatever he believes in coffee percolation. I'll say, in college,
I also believe in coffe. What a different kind? John Coff God,
No, you believed in the three largest on when it was time to get
your paper done on rough nights. On rough nights. It was definitely three
three larges from the fucking the Sea store down there. That's how you would
do it. Man, last day of the semester, I have four assignments
that I haven't handed in. I'm not going to bed. I got four
I got like three papers. I haven't written one movie. I have to
edit all the way and you know, and I also got to a study
for a final that I'm going to fail. I still remember that one time
you were like weaking your legs walking down the stairs in the dorm because you
had hadn't slept in like three days. Yeah, I was like, there
were that that was the you know, I remember one time, you know
it was it was one time before before this. You came to my house
for like a couple of days in spring break, and I remember I had
not slept in two days, oh, because I just had so much shit
to do and I was in so I just was just killing myself, just
devastating, just like so tired. You could scream yep, that's college.
Yes, that's right, that's reality. Rich Moulton, thank you very much,
appreciate this. Aboard Ethan Bowman. Same to you, Sal Roma and
Daniel Beasley and Matt Brown coming in strong in the ten dollars tier, and
Luke Ashby pumping up his pledge. These are all folks who are here TOOFO
near and dear to our hearts. Stephen wats or Palin Ireland rights. I
always associate Roger Moore with childhood holidays. Also, he used to do ads
on long haul aer Lingus flights for UNICEF. Oh yeah, sure, yeah,
well we're gonna get into his uniff tasting. Oh that's great and looking
forward to that, encouraging you to donate spare change of unused currency to UNIEF.
For years I was convinced James Bond flew on Aerlingus for missions more like
cunnelingis Steve. Yeah, that's exactly right. He also rates that every what's
that he said wrong Lingus. He also rates that every Christmas season in Ireland
the National Broadcaster does a run of Bond films and it always is almost exclusively.
The more films. That's interesting. I imagine they're probably out of them
all. I would imagine they might be the easiest. They're how because they're
definitely more crowd pleasers, because they they can appeal to more audiences because they're
definitely since they're generally cheesier, they're a little more fun, you know.
Yeah, and like you can definitely get more families watching that. And I
would imagine too that you know, they're probably not I mean, they're probably
all expensive to to get the rights to. I imagine all James Bond properties
are expensive. But I don't know, I somehow get the vibe that the
Roger Moore ones are probably on the cheaper end. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I wouldn't think. I wouldn't think the Sean Connery ones would would would
come at a at a discount. Yeah. No. Trevor Hendy, thank
you very much for the support. Has always we appreciated on Patreon. Adam
too writes Wes Anderson should write and direct a seventeen minute short film about Kevin
Nash waking up in a Milan. In Milan, I like a Milan better
ordering a cappuccino from room service and then hanging around the hotel desk just so
he has the opportunity to give tourist directions. I sound like a Wes Anderson
joint to you. Totally does Oh my god, It's like he's you know
it takes you like forty minutes to find out that his whole family was killed,
like yep, and then you look at him the whole different way.
Frank Otderbine, thank you very much for your pledge, Joshua fairly, thank
you so very much for the support. Nico writes on Patreon. I hate
to correct Brett. After all, he is my hero, and I thank
him for letting me be that. That's fine. It's a really good line.
I thank you, Oh oh god, I thank him for letting me
let him be that. That's a good one. If you go to a
Brett autograph signing Brett, I just want you to know, I want to
thank you for letting me let you be my hero. Sit. Thirdly,
just stare at them. Smoked a bowl in a clue, But the song
that reached number four in the UK charts was in fact slam Jam from the
Wrestlingia album, not the song he featured on. It never been a right
time to say goodbye? Uh So probably took credit for for a single that
didn't quite uh didn't quite line up with what ascended the charts. There now
that can that can happen? Sure? Totally. Josh doesn't give a fuck.
He wrote nine to eleven turned me into Bob Holly. Literally Jit Greeting's
co chairs and the solar system. If you choose to read this on the
cast, what we are Josh? Sorry, no turning back now. Yeah.
Today I reached episode two ninety three of my Hike up the Ever Growing
Mound lapsed. I know this episode was from three years back, but I
wanted to share my story from that day and some thoughts on the episode.
In total. I grew up and at the time of nine eleven lived in
Sarnak, a small town in the Adirondecks. That to me, right there,
that's the sentence of a lifetime. I grew up in the time of
nine to eleven, So did I it? Just a grade sentence. That
morning I woke up and for some reason, which I would later discover,
I hadn't been woken by the music on the radio when I was late for
work. So I hauled ass across town to the Burger King the fast Feod
Joint not Jerry Lawler. The town seemed awful quiet for the time, but
I really hadn't thought about it. I got to the BK noticed we had
a radio on the counter, and I said, awesome, we'd get a
radio. And as I clocked and I saw the paper, and suddenly everything
made sense. There was no music on, so I hadn't woken up,
and why the town was so silent? And I was bissed. That's the
subject line, partially because of the event and partially because two days later was
my twenty first birthday and I had planned an epic party, one which definitely
was not going to happen. Now, yeah, said on my twenty first
birthday, I watched this SmackDown. God, I wish I had you guys
for company that night and never since. It truly would have helped. I
find it disappointing. What sad? What? And terrifying? What that in
twenty years as of when this episode dropped, we went from so unified as
a people too is fucking divided in toxic as Brett Hart and Sean Michaels.
That may be in poor taste given Brett's mom died on and because of nine
to eleven. But no, sacred cows, right, what the fuck is
he talking about? Brett's mom died because of nine to eleven? Could you
repeat to say that again? It's a word salad that may be in poor
taste given Brett's mom died on and because of nine to eleven. She died
in September eleventh, not two thousand and one. Maybe she did. I
don't think so, Allen see Selen, Ellen Hot, Why you're looking me
up? She died in November fourth, two thousand and one. Are you
touching me? No, Ellen hat Bowsome. Maybe we made a joke about
that that. I wouldn't put it past us. She that she caused nine
to eleven. No, I didn't say that, Boss. I'm totally with
you. Josh Wrights. I fucking hate Bruce Richard. Here we go,
good bitch hard instead of pritch Yard right, more than Jack hates laps Nash
well nearly since Brute's bitch had actually exists, speaking of, I keep expecting
Jack is going to hit the gunshot while Boss is in laps Nash mode.
No, I wouldn't dare shoot on Big keV. I wouldn't dare. He's
from Detroit after all. Sorry, he's been part of the mean streets.
Oh when Jeff Hardy in a room with the burger sums up what kind of
asshole he is, Because you know he's just feeling like a burger. I'm
just feeling like a burger, you know, I just feel like a burger.
Have you seen any of these videos of him screaming in the woods.
I cannot watch him. I cannot, I won't. It's it's just no
nop. You're gonna classify yourself as obsolete, I I he does, I
classify him as being obsolete. Well that's that's funny because he beat you to
it. Well that's fine. But you know what I don't. I don't,
I don't not. Nothing he says counts to me. So fuck him,
Jeff Hardy, bitch, you come on. He's given so much to
the business, Oh my god, so much joy. He's such a fucking
idiot. Why he's such a loser? Oh winner draw superstar carry retired eighteen
years ago. Miserable. I gotta keep thinking things to say, Well,
I find a link for you. Oh my god, why are you doing
that? I'm not doing anything. I'm just saying I think it's probably pretty
important that I listened to him and look at his ugly face and his uh
fucking stretched out ear lobes from his uh his earrings and ship and I just
want to take scissors to and cut. It's pretty much it's pretty much over
with TNA for them. Yeah, another another abort a mission. Oh my
god? How am I coming up short on this? It's all I've been
seeing story of their lives. Okay, let's see see if you can.
Can you give me any feedback on this? I don't know if it's gonna
work. It might not work, but I appreciate any feedback you may.
I'm letting of, letting down. My heart is done with breaking other hearts
of human beings, open minds that close down, seeing me for who I
really am, Dotsi's also gary, damn. I feel love consuming me.
Something feels less humanly, mother than myself, mother myself in lighting, mother
than myself, mother myself. Yeah. See, even the fucking wildlife is
pissed off at him, Like shut up? Do you see him trying to
express what's inside? I don't know why you have to be such a hater
about it. Nothing inside to express? You see the passion, There's nothing
in there. He is completely hollowed out by all the fucking drugs and recoveries
that he's gone through. He's worthless. That's so unfair. That's so unfair.
It's unfair. Like, what's unfair is him putting that kind of shit
out there to get responses, because it's absolutely atrocious. He's got as much
fucking musical talent as as a as a as a fucking dead frog. Dead
frog, Yeah, what a choice? A dead frog? Fuck A living
frog wouldn't have been any better. No, but a dead one, all
right, one that doesn't even have the strength or the ability to fucking make
a croaking sound. Okay, that's better. I don't know. I get
so upset about it. I thought you would have liked that clip. Well
you just fucking look at me. He just he's always hooded. He's yes,
he always always has a very tight hood reminds me of And this is
where I think it really, it really makes me feel sad, is because
here's a guy who who made it. Okay, whether I like him or
not, Yeah, success right, okay, But here he is trying to
do something and all that comes across is one of those fucking idiot guys who
can't those those idiot fucking uh middle aged to elderly men who still think there's
a chance at making it big something doing something like this they're still doing fucking
you know, uh like brewery gigs and ship like that. And I'm not
listen some of them. Of course, A much love to those drivers,
but like and I'm not trying to take anyone's not trying to But but you
know what, there comes a point, okay, much like what Roddy Piper
said to Vergil, there comes a point. And Jeff Hardy he's got no
point at all. There is no point to Jeff Hardy. H have you
said what needs to be said? You're satisfied now. I won't be satisfied
until I never know, Okay, then I'll be satisfied. He's not that
offensive, he's completely just because he shaves like lines in the side of his
face, just because again, just because he he needs to stay this like
the same attire, the same look, the same style that he had twenty
five years ago. Just stop it. Except the fact that it's okay to
change. I knew I was minded for gold, finally got it. Except
that it's okay to change. That's all he's been saying all these years about
Jeff Hardy, Folks, through the entirety of TNH and all of his travails.
That's all it came down to pretty simple. Apparently not, Holly cautiously
writes, relative to the WWF in Europe, I actually believe. In Spain
he was known as Randy the Gaspacho man, savage good spots O maham with
the with the topass rope elbow drop. We have the best listeners ever on
the top his rope. Oh fuck, that's amazing. That is tremendous.
David Barrant with a fucking home run. This probably was my favorite one of
the whole time period. In the mailbag he just wrote, he wrote,
Dan Peterson drips balsamic while calling matches. Damn fucking right he does, speaking
of balsamic drips. Dude drips balsamic. Yeah, some people, some people
sweat. Yep, he fuckings he gets it, rains buckets, he drips
balsamic. He gets dark vinegar coming like he's fucking ultimate Warrior in nineteen ninety
two. There's more to it, exactly, like exactly, but instead of
that being some mysterious good, it's balsamic vinegar. Yes, Adon Peterson rips
balsamic while calling matches, looking like Rudy Giuliani's sweating hair die while committing crimes.
I was just brilliantly observed. We don't hear a lot from him,
so just to air drop that when yeah, my day, Ryan writes,
I'm not gonna lie that Jerry Lawler Christmas sounds fucking awesome. No family to
deal with, sign me up. Oh yeah, you say that now,
Yeah, exactly say that now, and then you know, you realize that
at four point thirty it's time to put on your pajamas right and act like
you're a child when you're you know, seventy years old. Well, Jeopardy's
done, must be bedtime. Sanna's coming in the morning. Oh, that's
the thing. Like he's gonna take it. You know, he's gonna do
his own Santa gifting. You know, I believe that Jerry other puts trees
for himself under the tree I do. He does, he does, and
you know what he and he acts surprised when he wakes up in the morning,
Santa came. He'll say to nobody to himself. These are facts sitting
here waiting for the problem. Will it arrive the only time will tell.
Brendan Lloyd, thanks for the pledge, Appreciate the aboord, my friend.
It's always uh, it's always deeply. It instills a great sense of gratitude
in us. Brian Sours, thanks for the pledge, we appreciated. Joe
tell Ovi, Ted Toll, the rights for Telly Steiner would be a way
better name for bron Breaker. So awesome, Like that's like we never would
come across that, but it's just they're out there. They're one day we're
going to find him. If it's been set on a wrestling show, we're
going to find him. And for Telly Seiner is way up there. JW
writes on Patreon about the Rouge sneakers. I recall the first one I got
super young, early eighties. The pocket was close to inaccessible. I think
it loaded horizontal. Oh my god. The later one was more of a
pocket for an adult it would be useless, but I had payphone change in
mine. One was Velcrow when one was Zipper too. Don't really remember which
was which. Who put those on the market? Soap bizarre? Jeff Wright's
God, these lawlor stories make me think I need to check in on my
unmarried friends and family to make sure they're doing okay. I would He also
wants us to do a recurring Kevin Nash Raids the Rick Steves Guidebook podcast.
That'd be fucking great. Jerry Zegarelli, thanks for the We appreciate it.
Welcome to the VIP, tre Brian Sowers, thanks for the support. Same
to you, Max Griffno, we definitely appreciate it, don't all rights.
How am I supposed to go into living living as per normal in a world
where for Telly Steiner now dominates my consciousness. It's a great question. I
struggled with it myself. We talk about Mama sorrow a lot. Scott writes
to us a subject line my mom, Oh my God, right around Mother's
Day this year, my mom. Indeed, Greetings co chairman. I just
randomly thought of the interview that you did with Fred, the wrestling fan that
went on Wheel of Fortune a couple of times at least I think his name
was Fred, Yes, it was Fred. That episode feels like it was
so long ago. I remember talking to my mom a day or two after
hearing that episode and telling her some of the behind the scenes details that he
dropped. She's a huge Wheel of Fortune fan, so I figured she'd be
interested. I told her that you guys asked all the questions that she'd probably
ask if she met someone that had been on the show you got a kick
out of it, and asked me to send her the podcast, oh oh,
so she could listen later. I told her I would, knowing that
I could just never send it and she'd forget all about it. I was
right. It's funny. I'm just now realizing that I've written you guys about
my maha a couple of times in the past. The last time I wrote
to you was during the Scott Hall tribute. I talked about my mom taking
me to the Hogan versus Goldberg Nitro, and us witnessing a bunch of redneckcl
slurs at at Scott Hall in one of the Georgia Dome parking areas. Also,
fucking that's Scott Hall. Okay, yeah, Like I also wrote to
you about the time my buddy and I were crouch chopping at the neighbor's dog.
So my mom got a call telling her that we had been whacking off
in front of the animals. Can I I'm hello, Hello, I just
want to tell you I saw one of your friends. I saw your son
and one of his friends. They were masturbating on animals. Are you okay?
With that. Yes, is that what you've taught your son to do?
Yes, I have. I taught him how to jerk off in front
of fucking animals. I wish that I was sharing something more like that this
time, savvly. My mom passed away a month ago. She had been
battling liver disease for the past nine years. She was put on a transplant
list, but eventually turned into cancer. Sorry man. After two more years
of treatment, she was finally declared cancer free and thus moved up the list
for her liver transplant. She had the transplant and right before Thanksgiving twenty twenty
three, and I've been recovering so smoothly, but she suddenly just started having
trouble catching your breath. After about six months, she was put on oxygen,
but after a few weeks they intubated her and put her on ventilator because
she just wasn't getting better. My sister was convinced that my mom could hear
the people around her while she was in her medically induced coma. She talked
to her a lot while while she was like that. I brought up the
idea of playing music or something for her to listen to when we oh,
I have a bad feeling about this when we couldn't be in the room.
This led to a later conversation with one of my cousins, who joked that
if I were ever in that situation, he'd put some AirPods in my ear
and play the lapsed fan for me. Mom said on that ventilator for a
week. Before Organs reached the point of no return, the family came together
and made the decision to turn off live support. When the time came,
my sister noticed that it was actually time for her for Wheel of Fortune to
start. She played that night's episode from some app on her phone and placed
it by our mom's head. We figured she'd appreciate us letting her listen to
one last episode. It wasn't until later that we realized she couldn't actually see
the puzzles, so it was probably really frustrating, but I digress. I
hoped to someday be able to afford the mote tier on page Tran and Wrestle
Mommy sounds so fucking funny, and every time I hear a clip, I'm
reminded of some of the insane things my mom would say in reaction to pro
wrestling. The last time she ever watched wrestling with me was about a year
ago when she showed up at my house while I was watching an old w
c W pay perview. I pointed to the Hollywood blonde I pointed, pointed
to Hollywood blondes eara. Steve Austin said, do you know who that is?
She said, Oh, yeah, that's Rick Flair. Conversation. Okay,
I'll say this. I I was dreading that that he while she was
in the coma, that he might have played that episode for her, the
Wheel of Fortune ship. That would have Yeah, that might not have worked.
No, it might not have work, but you know what, maybe
it would have Anyway. I'm sorry for the novel, but thank you for
everything. You guys do. Love your parents while you can and force them
to watch sports entertainment bullshit more often. Scott, sound your your mama sorrow
stuff, you know. Inspiring? Yeah, inspiring. That appreciation for the
moms out there definitely was a mother's day to remember. As we dropped the
one hundredth episode of Wrestling Mommy did we did Technica nineteen oh two. Thank
you very much for the media pledge. We appreciated. We've talked a lot
about you. Know that WWF European Tour and just the WAF European tours of
the Hasbro era. It was tough because you know, there wasn't a lot
said about these shows in Italy or that particular show in Italy. There's you
know, broad stroke stuff about the tours that people remember. We conveyed what
Brett says in his book, for instance, about a lot of the tours,
and he has some great memories. But our pal Zach thought, you
know, maybe we can dial this thing up a bit. Brother, Maybe
we can hear from somebody who was on the road with WWF at the time
and who just has a way with stories and who may have in fact replicated
his Beverly Brothers match at European Rampage. Oh get they Jack, how about
bloody hell, you're looking great, that's thinking Colonia wearing mate smells like bloody
rotten sidings which would be laying in the sun for five days. Can imagine
that, mate, And you know what that smells like? Mate w w
in Prairinching Hall of Fame, the here but like Luke a mate. Before
I gone any further, This shout out was booked from Zach Volk your mate.
He must love it for me to do this shout out to you anyhow.
He's asked me if there's any stories from the Europe to in nineteen ninety
three. Well, mate, I'm pretty blank on those weeks. We were
going to Europe twice a year, maybe three times a year, and then
and then at that time, and I I remember I remember one of nineteen
ninety two and in the Wembley Stadium in England when Davy Boy, the British
Bulldog, Davy Boy fought Brett Hart. That was for the title match,
and that was a big show and we were on that. That was in
the Wembley Stadium, the old Wembley Stadium, and it held me. I
think we had ninety six thousand people there, something like that, four hundred
and ninety six four or ninety four six, some ridiculous number. And you
know, to get a stadium that full, it takes hours and that and
we were the first match, yep, butch Me and Jim Duggan one of
three, a whoa, a yay and a whole so brother. When it
was our turn, you know, after the people were still coming in after
about three hours. It takes maybe it's three or four hours to full the
place up. Anyhow, we went out there and we got in the ring
and we matched around and put a head under the second of the top rope
and I did the world butchered theda and dug it in the hole. Well,
we ended up doing that for nine minutes, keeping going around the ring.
That whole arena was doing it. You know when you listen to English
or Europeans soccer or football, European football, all the people singing, the
audience, Well, that's how it was. And it didn't stop. We
had to stop and start doing a match after about nine minutes. And everything
we did in the match, and we didn't do much because we didn't need
to do much. Everything we did, the people were screaming here the place
when it was alive. Mate, that was one of the loudest sounds I
ever got from an arena. Yeah, well I ever heard. And Dougan
will say that, and of course God blessed, but he said that he
was saying that before he passed. Yep, it was the loudest and I
think it was a great, great match. We got plenty of comments on
that match from a lot of people just for the three characters in the Ring
us three characters. And also that night the road Warriors were against I can't
re move and I were against. But that's when Hawk dropped about nine Sohmers
must relaxes down his gullets, and the boy he went aol. He went
missing, missing in action for nine days after that. I think we had
a couple more shows in Europe, in England or Europe, and then we
headed home and we never saw Hawk for another week. He got hooked up
with the Hell's Angels. Oh there anyhow, and then matching the at the
Big Show, they went to rings. They went to the Ring on Harley's
and the Big Show. Port got with the motorbike gang. I think it
was whatever gang it was over there. He got with him and he didn't
leave them for nine days. He just partied with it. Hope would go
am I a quite a bit. And of course Marty's in Eddie another one.
Doesn't matter where you were in Europe on the last day, he would
never turn up. He'd be parting from the night before and then and then
next minute you'll see him. Back in the States, and the office always
kept your passports, so I guess they had a border whatever they did.
I don't know how they got in baggage started. But Marty was one for
Gone Mi I a nearly every year pre and tour party. Mary Mary jennetties.
Yeah, they were great. They were great tours over there made bloody
great tours. Good times, especially in Europe, different countries in the in
Europe were great, great times. We were new in a lot of bloody
countries and the reaction to everything was wild. Now getting back to the Hongy
necklaces, it wasn't a Hongy necklace. A Hongy is when we when two
Maoris were the original how many necklaces they were in ninety they rubbed their noses.
That was the meeting of the Maori when they met each other, going
back into the eighteenth century in nineteen nineteen, early nineteenth century, when they
meet they rub noses and and uh and the necklace is a Tikei necklace here
it's a replica. Yeah, going back to the ages the Maori's it's what
would they say, and as an ancestral police anyhow, it's from their gods
or who they believe their race. That's what things around the neck and it's
handed down usually the ticket is handed down from a family member to the next
generation to the next generation, and they say that the ticket gets more power
as it goes from generations of generation. But they sold around New Zealand and
all the stores and uh and the airports as a necklace, you know,
a leather a piece of leather usually holding them with the class and the tickie
readily made out of greenstone, the stone greenstone, but a lot of them
are carved out of wood. About if you go and look at now tickeys
and you can read about it, what the what what the story is on
them, the older the older Maria's well, now they're in the eighth cast,
you know, the ones that are bred there in New Zealand. Now
they're about eight eight percent married. But the original ones going back further,
that was very The tikey was a very important part of the end ancestry,
the family line, right, that's any other And the funny part is about
the hongy. When we had started doing that on wwe the nose rub you
know as a greeting, people thought we're head butting and they would come up
to us and bars, especially going to the ring. If you lean over
the barrier to rub their hand. They're trying to head butcher and if you're
anywhere else outside, they come up and that they were told it was a
meeting. It was a way of meeting, but they thought it was their
head butt instead of a nose rub boy. So we stopped doing that bloody
hongy very soon after we started because people were giving it a boom. Fuck.
Our head was all swallen up here. The bloody barsnd jack. Just
a little stories there about the butchwaggers in Europe and and the hungy what have
at day. Well, it's right, I mean, what a ride fuck
is he talking about it? He was asked about the necklaces that they wore
in like ninety five. They were like these wooden carvings around their neck and
apparently they have maory significance from the tribes of New Zealand. The hungy h
O n g i is a traditional Maori greeting in which people press their noses
together, and I guess they decided to try to do some of these ancient
moory things at a certain point as bushwhackers. I don't really remember this,
and they would like go to touch noses with the fans as the greeting and
that's inappropriate. They thought it was like an invitation to head button the bushwhackers,
so they stopped doing that pretty quickly. Yeah, he went in a
lot of different directions there. I mean he went in pretty much every direction,
but the one we wanted, well, we didn't even request it.
That's a that's our pal Zach doing us a real solid there. But you
never know what's behind door number one or two or three over at the cameo.
You never know. Certainly your co chairmen are up on cameo available to
you for your party favorite needs, right, Boss, you've had any whacky
requests? Lightly tell you you know, I've been very I have to admit
I apologize to the ones of the last couple of weeks or a couple of
months. Really, I've been so bad at getting to them. It's just
been just kind of crazy trying to get everything. You know. I've said
it before. I'll say I hate summer. Summer sucks because just the schedules
are just completely out of whack and and I just you know, I have
no time for anything because I'm grabbing my kid everywhere. So it's it's terfaul
obviously. So Yes, if you're out there and you sent a request in
and didn't get it responded to hit us back. Yeah, well we'll get
there. So, yeah, it has been a while since I've fulfilled one,
but there is one in the the there's one in the chamber right now.
Very nice. Let's see what the request is. Oh, it's for
So it's for it's for this person's boyfriend. And I guess they made them
a huge wrestling fan and with the help of us, and so they apparently
they want this is what the request. I don't know what the request actually
is there, but I wanted to thank him for being so awesome. We
love Terry Funk, Vincent Hulk Cogan. Interesting, okay, so are you
asking that? Is that what you want? You know? That's fine,
we'll get it done. Yeah, she must mean our versions of those people.
Yes, I mean, I I know, I know. But like
usually there's like a request what to say call my boyfriend a fucking asshole or
something, you know, for his birthday. He'll love that, you know
something. Usually you know, tell them I don't know whatever, So it's
it's ah, but yes, well, well you know what, always think
of something, so it'll happen. We are the people the cameo creators had
in mind when they created the concept, because I'm always so tickled to get
random cameos from wrestlers, from members of the Solar system who think that would
be funny. I mean, Zach has a lot of credit for h from
coming up the idea. You know, it's it's a regular part of cinemat
as well as the main shows these days. We just had Diamond Ellis Page
on the Greed Show, for instance, just sitting there waiting, you know,
because all we really want are ten minutes at a time with these folks
anyway, Right, to do a three hour interview with these motherfuckers costs about
the same as you would at a wrestle con too, So yeah, it's
fair. It's a fair exchange, Vanessa writes to us. Carney's boss are
forever all right, Vanessa Rollins brother, please please don't anyway, dear coach
chairman, like a normal father, my dad had no interest in watching wrestle
with me as a kid. Yes, thank god for that. Father watched
wrestling from Marigo all the time. He would scream and yell at the TV.
But you know it's fake, right, How do you watch this shit
right. He put up with it, though, He bought me shirts and
pay per views and generally tried to be as supportive as a sane adult could
be of a child sadly lost to the sport of kings. One thing we
did watch together was James Bond movies. Uh oh. We had the whole
collection on VHS. We watched them over and over. We talked about which
Bond was the best. He loved Sean Connery. I loved Roger Moore,
But twenty years ago this year, while I was still in high school,
he passed away from colon cancer. My deepest sympathies. After that, my
love of Bond faded. I watched only a couple of the Daniel Craig movies.
They were good, but my heart just wasn't in it anymore. Enter
Carnies are forever right. Much like Jack, I've never really been a movie
person. I think you're not a movie person. You're a movie person.
When I was saying that watching those oh yeah, I mean there's movie people,
and then there's like going to Emerson and like, oh yeah, I
mean like, no, I'm not that kind of movie person. No,
no, no, no, I wouldn't say that I love movies, but
I I never I'm never the person that's seen all the movies you're supposed to
see. Yeah, of course, yeah, I understand. It's why I
love cinemat Yeah. The excuse is to check these boxes. Oh yeah,
I've had enough years to watch these movies on my own record, and I
haven't, so I never would have otherwise. Yeah, I actually get some
you know. Actually it's funny some of it. Sometimes there have been sometimes
where I've had movies that I've actually bought and I've never watched them. Yep,
And I'm like, oh, well, this actually qualifies. It's just
throw this in your effect. It's a beautiful thing we have going it is
actually is the understanding among my friends is that if you're going to ask me
if I've seen a movie, just to sue my ab and then proceed with
your story from there. Exactly. So I forked over my hard earned long
greens to upgrade to the EPT here a while back, to become more con
conversant. Is that's absolutely in film. I appreciate it when people are you
know, people are much more intelligent than I am. In certain just a
word, she knows, that's all I just don't know. It's a word.
I don't know. I've never heard conversant before, capable of conversing on
a subject. I am conversant in it, I guess in film and film
history. And when when Carnier Carnier, Carnie's type of Carnia. Yeah,
yeah, that's uh, that's what they call it in France. Yeah.
Started. I was curious would draw me in more than other films, considering
my history with them, And dear coach here, I write to you to
inform you that I sit by my phone with bated breath, Yes, watching
for notifications. Yes you do. Twenty four to seven seven eleven South.
Oh my god, that's great for the next episode of carneiz are forever to
come out. I say this with nothing but the deepest reference for the work
you've done for the past ten years. I haven't been this anticipatory for the
next episode of a podcast since season one of Cereal. Wow, the trial
of all of his life came closed. But this is un controvertible. Damn
God, lover. These are big words for me. I need it,
I have to have it. I don't know if I have words to relate
the excitement I had during the final scenes of Honor Majesty Secret Service, knowing
that both I and JP were hiding a dark and terrible secret for Jess.
Yes, oh god, that was hard. That was hard. It was
hard preparing that episode making sure I kept any reference of Tracy getting whacked.
Yeah. Yes, very artist, fuck very challenging. I don't know how
I'm supposed to hear someone speak German around me good five. Yeah, I
don't know how I'm not supposed to see a white Catholic el Dorado and not
immediately call it a bit of obio? What mobile? A pimpmobile? Yes,
thank you for stuffing my arm. You know, I know, I
know after ten years. I know, after ten years, it still catches
me off. Dard when people phrase it a certain way. Cliff said cinnamon
hole before, right, like, thank you for stuffing my holes with knowledge.
Get it up the fucking knowledge. Come on, got it up there
for all these years. Thank you for creating something. The Grinch with the
Christmas tree sact by exactly. That tree is knowledge, all right, and
Vanessa's hole is the fucking chety. Sorry Vanessa, but you started it.
I blame you. Thank you for being something that in this time of malaise
invokes in me excitement, joy and anticipation. Thank you for Holcomania, and
thank you for Carnie's r Forever see Boss, the work you're doing means something
to people. I appreciate that and lovely to know it is always Ken Canew
writes, I did a forty I did a year abroad in Spain and used
to love watching raw. I'd be condensed to a forty five minute highlight show
interspersed with random vignettes if wrestlers dubbed over good. I did a Broaden New
Year in Spain, but I did more than one broad actually did more than
abroad on Laurambla. Were you born a rumblin man? Vince in Barcelona?
I do appreciate Barcelona. Oh shit, Vince gets blown on the on the
Brambla. Oh yeah, in between like vendors selling like keychains. Yes,
uh, it'd be condensed to a forty five minute highlight show interspersed with randam
vignettes of wrestlers dubbed over by the commentator he'd called triple H tree play tree
play tree, playych cha yach cha yat yay. Wow, that's tremendous and
at the end of mister Kennedy doing his microphone bit, he'd say Gracia signor
Kennedy. Also, they would never show the first entrance, so whoever came
out first was a de facto jobber, nice collar sendor Kennedy, Kennedy.
There's some color on WWA European broadcasts. Stephen Wats writes, I must confess
that seventeen year old needed buy a double cologne during the Quantum of Solace promotion.
Oh wow, I didn't know they had one during this more modern era.
That's crazy to not result in the murder of any woman. Also,
is it too early to name Roger Moore at the MVP of this journey?
No, actually, I'm I'm gonna come out and say it. I think
he is, that he is the hero of this of this journey. Yeah,
well, I don't know what's to come. That's the thing. I
mean, I know a little bit. I just don't think. I don't
think anybody else, because because here's the thing, no other James. We're
not going to be with any other James Bond this long. There, you
know, we don't have another James Bond for literally seven movies we don't have
a James bond for all of their movies, right you now, like it's
it's it's much more sporadic. He he just has cemented himself as as a
treasure to the point where, you know, normally at this point into on
this I kind of want to veer off from the main person and talk about
other people, but I can't because everything he fucking says is amazing. Yeah,
he's money. His autobiography is tremendous, It's so funny, it's great
stories. You know, He's he's really he's I agree. I think I
think he is the He is the hero of the Carney's journey. Yeah.
Yeah, he's got a remarkable mix of yeah seriousness and unseriousness that Milton read.
You can't possibly spend enough time trying to unpack it, you know,
not at all. But I let this be fucking proved by now that if
you're not on the executive producer tier and you have any a scintilla of Cinophile
in you, you're really missing out. Yes, let these letters and these
testimonials serve as evidence that the Carney's forever Carneys are forever journey happening right now
under the Cinemat is certainly worth your dollar. Sam Gafchack, thank you very
much for your increase in pledge. We appreciate it. Stephen Prescott, welcome
in, my friend, and thank you for the support. Cyrus says this
co chairs of Grace Sis with Under the Cinemat episodes on Predator and The Running
Man. Yes, the time has come for the Arnold and Jesse trilogy to
be completed with the nineteen ninety seven Warner Brothers cinematic masterpiece Batman and Robin.
Yes, on a list, for sure, on a list. It's there,
it'll come. Are you looking forward to it? No, Joshannon,
thank you for that huge pledge. Up to the mote here, my friend.
We really appreciate that vote of support. Great to have you in the
Solar System. The Joel Schumacher Batman's are just awful. Yeah, that's anyone
says. That's why I asked. Yeah, yeah, they're dreadful. I
can't stand him. Jesse's in them? Is that right? He's in one
of them. He's in the one with Schwarzenegger. He plays like a news
broadcast or something in Batman and Robin. Okay, we're generally considered the worst
ever. Oh god, yeah, it's absolutely, I mean it's it's it's
dreadful. The franchise was dead for eight years because of that, you know,
until they fucking completely redid it. That's amazing. Yeah, it's awful,
Clooney Batman, it's just like not okay. Mike writes this on our
ten year lookback interview that we did. Congrats and happy anniversary. Thank you
for dropping a look back, really good insight and it's ever always good to
hear the three of you chat. I help contribute to the Hall of Fame
for TLFX, Thanks Mike, and with International LATS Day. Thanks again earlier
this year. I'm still working on what I want to say an audio forms
part of TLFX, but wanted to take the time to drop this message.
Yeah. Reminder, still taking TLFX testimonials if you want to reflect on what
the cast is meant and get your audio up here on the main feed if
we deem it worthy. The lapsed fan at gmail dot com is where to
send your audio recordings. I'd love to hear from more of you, he
writes. Your friendship in chemistry is with lots of us fans of fake Fisticuffs
wish we had or wish we still had. By listening to you, it's
like being part of a conversation with like minded friends who never existed or are
two out of touch to understand anymore. You treat fans like equals and within
reasonable, allow, within reason, allow us to contribut. Hearing an email
read out in the show for me personally was very cool. I've never written
into or called into a show before, or felt the connection to a show
like I have with TLF. Here's to at least another twenty years. So
glad that it's become financially viable for you. It is so well deserved.
You allow us into your lives and create the illusion of friendship in a way
that no other show could illusion. It's a good one. Hey, we
learn to work everything else as lifetime wrestling fans, right, That's true.
I was enjoy hearing about your families, your Christmases. I was generally so
thrilled when I heard JP had Linda koj Oh King of the Jews, and
that you had been able to collaborate with Dark Side on that podcast. Lots
to express, but the above is all I got right now. Like Jack
said, you just do a podcast and have never claimed to try to help
people with issues. But it's not a work for everyone, and not all
stories are fake. My life is better thanks to TLF. Since twenty twenty,
life has been rough and one hundred percent. TLF has been a saving
grace time and time again. You let us get to know you, but
on your own terms. It just works. Mike. Thank you, Mike.
That's a really nice letter. I like that a lot. Actually,
that's really really solid, Paul. Ten years have lapsed. Thanks Paul.
Here we go greeting purveyors of phony pugilism. Ten years ago, my wife
and I moved our family to be closer to our parents. Around that same
time, I started to get it back into wrestling through seeing a random gift
on Twitter of arn Anderson's spine busting Ricky Steamboat and the memory of wrestl War
ninety two rushed back. I play spinebuster will do it sometimes, right,
boss? I? Yeah, for sure, he did. There are nobody
does it better. Tremendous torque on that thing. He gets it, he
gets it, and it lands. I've been listening to podcasts for a while
at that point, so I wondered if one for wrestling existed, and a
cursory sarch led to a show with a cool logo that looked like the old
Raw logo. First episode SummerSlam nineteen ninety one. I remembered that show decently,
well, let me check these guys out, love the chemistry between Jack
and JP, and then JP at the end of an episode announced the next
episode was Royal Rumble nineteen ninety one. That was my show, and I
was hooked. Yes from there. I remember driving to work one morning and
almost getting a wreck because laps. Jim Barnett couldn't help himself but respond to
Brad Armstrong's objection of the IRAQ demand gimmick with I'd rather go to a raqman
with a perfectly timed like your brother. I con vividly remember Jack's laugh,
and I've never laughed so heart at a joke I didn't completely understand. Insert
one of the co chairs saying, oh, you didn't know an R road
duck. Fast forward it's twenty seventeen, you're covering Hollymen Havoc ninety eight,
and I decided to shave while listening to Vince calling the cable company the day
after the show to tell them WCW screwed them over when Vince told Patterson to
write a script and put WCW on it while putting the TV exec on a
hold. Let's just say I got color. Oh shit. In short,
TLF has been my constant companion for the last ten years, through rocking my
youngest daughter to sleep, mowing the lawn, working in eight to five,
flying home to see my dad after his heart attack, to the four hour
drive home the following year after saying goodbye to him for the last time.
To paraphrase Big Dust, I don't need it to look for another podcast.
This is the podcast I need. I wish both of you the happiest of
anniversaries. And here's too many more. Here's to more deep dives, more
cinemats, and of course more WrestleMania. Here's the lapsed fan man number one
in the ring. Thank you for both seeing Himania Hokomania and perhaps most importantly,
Freddie Miller all the best. Paul, that's a fan right there.
That is sick, absolutely sick, letter floating, stupid, fucking idiot smile
on his face and he just flies out of the window. Ract the man.
I'd rather go to a rack man like your brother. I mean,
you want to talk about as stupid as it possibly could get on a podcast,
so fucking pathetic and dumb that we just sit here, make those little
puns and just giggle our asses off so someone can write an email like you
folks like you goggle. Yeah, well exactly, Martin Ferguson, Thanks for
all the great support and for increasing your pledge. We were talking about what
a bushwhacker was, remember that when we were doing the European rampage shows.
Dan writes Dan from New Zealand Rights in fact, wanted to give you some
clarification on what bushwhacker means, at least to us here in New Zealand.
Bushwhacking is a practice of exploring and clearing paths and forests. That's exactly what
I thought it was. Yeah, usually done with a machete and involving clearing
of large scrub and vines. So how is that a threat in wrestling?
How are they bushwhacking? I guess that hand motion is how you cut vines
and scrub. I certainly saw them cut through many scrubs on Saturday mornings,
that's for sure. I hope this helps give some clarification as to why they
were called bushwhackers cheers, Really not at all. It does mean whacking bushes.
I got it. I mean that I'll take, but it means it
actually makes it more confusing as to what their gimmick was. I'm sure Vince
just heard the term in association with New Zealand once and just absolutely had to
see it on a T shirt on the bed sheets I had as a kid,
Remember those bed sheets, man home, I'll be honest with you,
I am definitely the king bushwhacker in bed, and I would like to see
children's all right, that's enough, definitely enough sharing my bushwhacking in bed.
Everything to say about that pale? What more can you say? Coffee Murphy,
thank you very much for that incredible vany pledge. Out of the gate
right to the moat tier he goes, good a pot brewing. Lillian Mattis,
thank you so very much for your increased pledge in the vote of confidence.
We appreciate it. Shell's KF thank you for joining the inner circle and
for your pledge. Same to you, Josh Wright, coming in strong with
a meaty pledge that we deeply appreciate. Jamie Keene saw necessary to increase the
pledge, and so we see it necessary to give our thanks here on the
cast. Jason Powell, thank you very much for your pledge. We appreciate
the support. Christopher A. Karn if not to say clarn Welcome to under
the Cinemat Interurn. Matt came right in at the fifty dollars tier, and
for that we give him deep respect and admiration. Scott Arnold, thank you
very much. Welcome to the executive producer circle. My friend Michael wise Camp,
thank you so very much for your support. Gary slack Jog great last
name, slacking his way up to the bigger tier. Chris Barnett motoring all
the way up to that moat tier. We appreciate it. James Milsom,
thank you very much for jumping up to the execute to produce her tier.
So gratifying to see people get in the front door at that three sixteen,
and then over the years they go to ten, they go to twenty,
they go to fifty. It's just, you know, because it's not bullshit
what we say about getting something out of it. Nathan, thank you very
much for all your support over the years and for your recent joining of the
Mote tier. Luke Polly writes in Primary school age, tell people I was
named after Luke of the Bushwhackers because he was my dad's friend. Not true.
I also later on told people Kane was my uncle and I was going
to bring him to the school sports today, but when the day came he
called away unimportant WW business, wow instrument, Andy Low, thank you very
much. Welcome to the Eptier, my friend Panda. Thank you for the
cake. Same to you, Evil Fenrix, whoever you may be, Thanks
for that cheese. William Lutz, thank you very much for your support.
Same to you, Madeline Coppel. We really appreciate you joining us in the
inner circle. Sam O'Connor, thank you very much for bumping up your pledge
to a generous denomination. Daniel Pearson writes to us, guy, I'm working.
I'm from a Workington. Hearing it and Cockermouth and Carlisle on that cast
is so bizarre. We must have talked about Workington, England on an episode
of cinemat maybe or maybe in the European Tour set Diamonds are Forever featuring Tiger
Joe Robinson. Oh maybe that would have been right. It says Cumberland and
Westmoreland wrestling is still a thing. No Yeah, it totally is. If
you're wondering, like what the wrestling component of some of these James Bond episodes
are. We're learning a lot about wrestling on the lawns of England, are
we not? We are? I mean the the the Westmoreland Cumberland style is
a very fascinating style of wrestling, involving just like some very interesting rules.
Yeah, the rule set is what really gets your head scratching. Yeah,
without a doubt. It happens at the appleby Horse Fair every year. Still,
I think Cumberland and Westmoreland wrestling sounds like a road trip. One of
these days. I know I need to see this shit see ketches can on
the Green Yep Tiger Joe Robinson giving a judo advice to women so they can
repel attackers. I mean, women being told that, you know, they
can't do it better than men at the end of it all, the end
of it all truly something We want to go now to Brian and thank him
very much, Brian Condon for his recent increase in pledge. Deeply appreciate that.
Phil says, fuck me, I'm actually crying at the Ultimate Warrior,
asking Davy boy Smith if he knows a steroid dealer in full promo mode.
This is vincea. That's good. That's our Saturday Night's Made Event episode where
he and Davey both went away for g H. Shipman's thanks to Martin for
buying the lapsed baseball shirt. I think he was the first one from chop
Teas. He's excited for it to arrive, and it's been a wonderful combination
with our friends over chop Teas where you can get exclusive T left merchandise sort
of off the beaten T shirt path, you know, baseball jerseys, hats
and the such cool snapbacks of course, and some of the T shirts that
were deemed a little too racy, racy of sorts and you know, bordering
that line a little too close. But of course our pro wrestling T shirts
still rock and strong for you that want to wear the traditional teas that have
so long been the flags to fly when you're out in public to announce your
lap stom and now we get jackets to throw on top of it. Another
kind of ethemera thanks to Chopped So it's a beautiful thing, Neil writes to
us y NBC dumb Saturday Night's main event and he's got more detail. Of
course, that is a subject we talked quite a bit about, yes,
in covering the final Saturday Nights Made event on Fox back in nineteen ninety two.
Quite recently in the catalog. Here's some more color that Neil thought was
relevant, and I would agree. Why don't you share it with the Solar
system? Do you? Hello? Co chairs? It was amusing hearing Bruce
Pritchard's spin on YNBC dumped w programming. We had become so awesome at television
and they were jealous. That's pretty much what he says. Yeah, when
the true answer is much more interesting. I've broken it down to three bullet
points in order of importance. NBC acquired the rights to air NBA games.
If you want to have a one send answer for YNBC ditch wrestling, it
would be NBC snatched away CBS's deal with the NBA. You think about nineteen
ninety when basketball was beginning to pop off. Is it any surprise that they
want to be the network of Michael Jordan and not Hulk Hogan brother. In
November nine eighty nine, NBC put ink to paper on a six hundred million
dollars deal to bring the NWA to their airways more than triple which CBS was
paying. The man who engineered the deal. Vin's his best buddy Dick ever
saw Yes, his quote at the time. Now there's this. There has
been no competitive bidding in this decade for that contract. Neither ABC or NBC
ever actively participated, so CBS has had it pretty much to him to itself.
This indicates a forceful change in direction for NBC Sports to grab basketball after
losing their MLB rights the previous month. By allotting forty million dollars to promote
NBA programming, was very clear they they were putting all their chips on basketball,
thus leading to the golden NBC, NBA and NBC era with the John
Tesh song, mm hmm, and they're getting it back, they are,
It's coming back. Brandon Tartakoff leaves NBC to become chairman of Paramount Studios in
nineteen ninety one. Brandon Tartakoff was largely seen as the architect of NBC's nineteen
eighties boom Cheers, The Cosby Showhill Street Bluesmami Vice, et cetera, and,
in surprise exit from the post he had held for ten years, put
NBC in a desperate scramble to pick up the pieces. As Boss knows,
when a new network or studio ahead assumes their role, they are quick to
dispatch legacy projects in favor of their own ideas. Yeah, talk about that
in a bunch of times, especially, I think of with The Princess Bride
with William Goldman talking about how you know you get a new once you get
a new regime in on a studio, they want to basically put every project
that was created by the predecessor aside right favor of their own agenda. I
mean it's like also, it's like presidencies as well, Like in the country,
they want to fucking executive order the shit out of everything that happened before.
They can order the shit everything happened before, and and just be sure
that if there's something they want to see see through that the people in a
position executed actually have loyalty to them. Yeah, right. Having a bit
of a NBC since nineteen eighty one, ww Wrestling was on NBC for the
entirety of Tartakoff's tenure and can be seen as a cornerstone of his programming strategy.
While Tartakoff's air Warren Littlefield was indebted to his mentor in many aspects.
He made it clear right away the network was going into a new direction.
Is it any surprise that when Tartakoff leaves, that wrestling leaves with him,
which leads us to the new and BC. Yes. Within NBC in nineteen
ninety one, there was an internal thinking that they had to move on from
what had worked in Tartakoff's era. The Cosby Show and Cheers were winding down,
and their new primetime drama offerings had been wildly unsuccessful. In the ninety
one ninety two season, CBS had finally dethroned NBC as the number one network
after chasing them through the nineteen eighties, and NBC had very little to respond
withww Wrestling was largest seen as in the rearview mirror with their other nineteen eighties
off fens, and NBC was determined to move onto new shows and new stars
for their network. The w and Hulk Coogan had no place in this new
landscape where Seinfeld, Friends, Friends was on a little bit later, but
I see the point. Seinfeld, Friends, Law and Order, Will and
Grace and Er would come to dominate primetime and Jay Leno would leave the Tonight
Show in Late Night. Make no mistake, the W going to Fox was
a major demotion from NBC. Fox hadn't acquired NFL games yet and was firmly
the number four network off in a punchline when it came to jokes about quality
television. But my email sheds a little light on what the thinking might have
been that sent the W to Fox from a higher profile perch on NBC.
Yeah, that NBC deal was, that NBA deal for NBC was transformative.
Imagine for sure, they leaned in big at a time when people were questioning
the value of those rights, and they wrote the Jordan Wave and what an
incredible time for basketball that that was. And the return of the NBA n
NBC with the theme song and everything soon of course, as yet not another
indication Boss that it used to be better. That's I mean, it does
kind of bother me that that you can put John tesh under one under it
used to be better. But you know, yeah, I'll take what I
can get. I just can't believe he came up with that song, But
all the power to him. He did the John John teshun Son Son Tons
Tons and it's exciting it is, and it's a great time to be a
basketball fan. But that's that's all very good points for Neil. I mean,
you can't ever lose sight of the macro when it comes to these television
stations that have wrestling on. Is kind of like a not an afterthought,
but not a front burner consideration, right, It's about everything else. They're
thinking about everything else except wrestling. Teddy wants us to know that Helen's Reptilian
reveal maybe do the kind of laugh where you're laughing so hard that you can't
inhale or x and you just sit there, seizing in silence and wondering if
this is the end? Yes, William writes the other night, my wife
and I were making BLTs. Oh she was making Oh, she was making
the bacon, and I was going to slice the tomato and bread. I
had to leave the room for a minute, and when I came back,
she had already completed my task completely without any forethought. I said, oh,
you already slight slizzed the tis. Oh my god, brother, it
just fell out of my mouth. She looked at me and said, yes,
But I don't think that there's a more perverted way to say that,
ye right, that is what this particular podcast does. Already slizzed the tizz
speaking of the Saturday's main event. Remember, as part of that episode,
we were reading off with the top one hundred shows who were on cable and
just bathing in the memories. Jeff writes, the CoA chairs reading off TV
shows is more depressing than the Mike von Eric Cotton Bowl show promo. I
missed communal, predictable, regularly scheduled television. Now you should. People were
happier and no one was an amateur TV critic or network executive. You just
watch television. God, it used to be better. Eric Holeman, thank
you very much for the pledge. Welcome to the executive producer tear. My
friend Paul writes, Imagine, due to the success of Iron Claw, someone
makes a movie about the Heart family. Taking cues from that movie, The
cast is encouraged to listen to a particular podcast. Then you go to see
the movie. The actor playing stew just mutters about chicken and soup NonStop.
The amazing and the blogs characters entire dialogue is ah die, crack and every
other every other syllable, every other word. For Brett Hard is aw Now,
the brett Wan would be the flattest one if they use us as a
as a guide. Cliff points out, relative to the Mega Maniacs on the
last Saturday Night's main event, it's possible that Savage and Warrior were weorring yellow
and red y because when I say Mega Megas were beef Cake and Hogan,
you we're wearing yellow and red because they were both Slim Jim spokesman. I
forgot about that. Warrior was, Yeah, they did. They put them
on one of those commercials I believe in ninety two. Really, I'm gona
t see if I can pull it up. Slim Jim Ultimate Warrior. Yeah,
it was do you want to do? You boys a bit bored?
Stop? I remember that, stop into it. I remember him saying it
that way. I don't remember shopping it. No, I don't remember that
at all. It does have something to do with it, not a whole
cocin dig that. We we had fun considering the possibility. Listen, it's
always about Hogan, Okay. Absolutely, My red slim gym colors alone are
Hulk Hogan. Absolutely, here's a Brent. I just discovered your podcast several
days go and I've been binge listening to all the original episodes, starting with
the first one. They are pure gold. Thank you for the laughs in
the nostalgia. I am hooked, Sorry but not sorry. Brent, welcome
in. Appreciate it a tool belt for Daddy, writes on Patreon. Excuse
me, I was just listening to Davey having some sort of a breathing fit
after asking if he won the trophy and laughed so hard I inhaled my food
and almost died. This happens a lot. I think we may have lost
one or two out there over the years. I do wonder, you know,
there are something we haven't heard from in a while, and it makes
me wonder if they if they did pass away. Yeah, someone said having
lapsed Vince read audio books would be a great revenue stream. We've thought about
things like that before, but apparently some of these carnies with books would rather
audible, just have AI read their books and pay them nothing than to yeah,
or just not make money off of anything. Let us do something with
them and share in the proceeds, Anthony, that's funny. They'd rather not
make money at all. Well, yeah, for money. Didn't see it
coming, but here it is. I mean, there are so many audiobooks
now that are read not by human authors, on some of these sort of
marginal wrestling titles. All of a sudden, I'm noticing. I don't know
where where that came from, but good luck, that's where we're headed.
Anthony writes, I had a terrible day yesterday, the worst day. I
went to bed at nine thirty because I didn't want to be awake, but
my brain wouldn't quiet down. I put a nearbuty in around ten thirty.
The lapsed fan. Of course, the sleep timer turned it off in an
hour, but I was still awake. I put it back on. The
sleep timer turned it off again, but I was still awake, so I
turned it on again. The last thing I remember was Helen Hart turning into
a reptile demon. That is not what you want to go to pet Toolessly,
I'll tell you that right now. For the first time, I laughed,
quietly, shaking the bed and waking up my pregnant wife. Are you
okay, It's fine, dear. I just got lapsed. Oh God.
Shortly thereafter I fell asleep. I've never written to you guys, just quietly
enjoyed it since it all started. Thanks Jack and JP. You guys are
the go to when I want to abandon the troubles of this life and enjoy
the troubles of choreographed, monetized, athletic pretend entertainment. Yeah, I understand,
Matt. That's how we can be of service. Michael writes, good
evening, This is going to be a bit of a stream of consciousness,
but this recap on Warrior and satur In Nate's made of at ninety two really
hit home for me. I grew up in a small town in central Ohio.
Actually went to the nineteenninety two Survivor series on Thanksgiving Eve. Wow,
he went, Wow, We've always been a fan of he was there.
Back in these days, getting tickets was a bit of a pain in the
ass. We had to go to an independent music store in downtown in order
to call in and order our tickets. The other complicating piece is while I
still read the WWF magazine, I never had access to cable and the local
Fox television affiliate would preempt Superstars of Wrestling seemingly randomly. The last time I
regularly was able to watch Superstars of Wrestling was ready on SummerSlam I distinctly remember
Nails attacking the boss Man. So anyway, probably around the Septemer Nineteenninet two
issue of WAIF magazine, and I remember the back of the magazine having a
big ad for Survivor series Warrior and Macho against Flare and Ramon coffin match Betwe
Kamal and Taker night Stick match between boss Man and Nails. And I was
in and it was in Richfield, Ohio. Now I was ten. I
had no idea where Richfield was, but I was able to beg and beg
until my dad finally gave in. He bitched about having a drive on seventy
one to Cleveland on the busiest travel day of the year. Of course,
what's better than a dad complaining about traffic taking you to wrestling. Oh and
of course we didn't get in quite on time. Still remember hearing Crushes theme
echoing in the arena as we were still finding our seats. That's stressful.
Sorry I am digressing. But the key to thing to know is the only
thing I knew going into this event was from Saturday Night's main event, Heart
was now the champ, which I was okay about, kind of happy to
see a WT fifth Championship match at the show that I was going to see,
and then at the end of the show, I heard Heenan saying something
about there being a problem with the Mega Maniacs. I thought for sure that
Ultim Maniacs. Yeah, he said Mega. Yeah, he said Mega too.
I thought for sure that was Heenan being an idiot. I was finally
going to see my guy Warrior. As I walked through the arena, I
looked at the merchandise Kiosk and saw mister Perfect with Savage Right. What the
fuck? Perfect had always been an asshole. I didn't like him and definitely
didn't accept this replacement. Nope, it definitely took the wind out of my
sales. You're done. After the show, I kind of stepped back from
WWF until my family got cable in January of ninety four, the day of
the Rumble, which I definitely talked my folks into letting me get I was
excited when I saw on WWF magazine that Hogan won the title at WrestleMania nine.
I rented it from the local First Choice Video. I would call the
number every fifteen minutes to see if the asshole that rented at first had returned
it yet Oh the worst. That's awesome. I'm sure they hated me along
with Final Fight for the SNS, but my love was not there. Thanks
for giving me an opportunity to reminisce about a formative time in my life.
And I love this podcast. Thank you for whole comania. Well, thank
you, Michael. Glad to be of service. He puts his finger on
something that I kind of remember, like getting back into something like watching a
pay per view after a year and a half or something. Yeah, like
being excited that you're about to discover a whole lot of things that you know
nothing about wrestlers you don't know you know that feeling? Yep, well,
yes, yes, I do kind of The last time I could replicate it
was sort of like when I started tape trading for Japan and all these wrestlers
I would read about, but I hadn't really seen an action. There was
no YouTube to speak of or anything like that. It's like, Wow,
I'm actually gonna sit here and just be like an assault on the senses of
brand new things, brand new wrestlers, brand new moves, brand new form
of presentation that's gone. Yeah, yeah, because I don't you know,
It's funny that I do remember having that feeling, but I haven't had it
in a long time. Amen to that, Miiley Ripley, thanks very much
for the pledige. Adam B. Welcome to the VIP. Tre Aden Miller,
thanks very much for your support. Leif has some stuff for his boss
on Brett and Virgil and kind of where he found the great verge around the
time of bread. That's a title reign in the Saturday Night's main event.
We covered all right, um yeah, in the aftermath of Virgils untimely passing
Rest and Peace and Tlef's coverage of the November nineten ninety two Saturday's main event.
It's natural to speak of that random Brett Hard Virgil Superstars title defense in
positive terms, and from Virgil standpoint, I obviously understand Brett's work was such
that it made far less talented people than Virgil look like a million bucks,
So it's no real surprise that that was a good match. But for twelve
year old me, still reeling from the jarring announcement that Brett had been hot
shotted into the world title, it actually felt like an inflection point where I
could not take the whole thing seriously. To be clear, As a fan
starting out a few years prior, I made it about thirty minutes into watching
wrestling before my mom casually passed through the room to inform me that the whole
thing was fake. I never really doubted that what she said was true,
so I understood almost immediately that it was all work. Still, even armed
with that knowledge, you think in markish ways, planned or not, the
wrestler who's dominant is more impressive. The one who catches beatings on a regular
basis is tough to get excited about, And that irrational construct informed my opinion
about Brett for a number of years. See, I was a big Heart
Foundation fan. They were my favorite tag team as a new fan. I
love the music, I love the heart Attack finisher, but it was the
Anvil. The Anvil who really impressed me. After all, he was the
one who got the hot tags to bail Bred out of peril. He was
the big man who could throw dropkicks when you wouldn't have expected it, and
in interviews, his laugh provided more personality than any words Brett could offer.
So I basically accepted Brett as an acceptable tag along. I didn't dislike him
at all. But in my backwards, young mind, it was anvil carrying
the team and Brett coming a long for the ride. Safe to say,
given this mentality, it was difficult to accept his big mega push as a
singles wrestler after the animal disappeared. I did not like him as much as
mister Perverton didn't accept him, didn't accept him. Wow as icy champ.
Wow swapped the belt back and forth with Roddy Piper. I felt relieved.
I felt relieved when the British bulldog took him down. Oh my goodness,
you got a hot take on Brett because it felt like they were pulling the
plug on this relentless Brett push. I was young, I'm stupid. I
did not possibly realize that losing a strap could simply be a sign of a
wrestler's push actually intensify to the next level. When he was randomly brought out
by me and Gin a few weeks later on Superstars as the new w champion,
I just about fell out of my chair. I couldn't believe this had
really happened. With despair, I accepted my fate. This man was going
to be a top wrestler for a very long time. I tried to suppress
my frustration and pretend that I was okay with it. After all, I
was THEWW superfan in my friend group. It always felt like my ability to
keep my friends interested was hanging by a thread. So I didn't feel that
I could afford to be negative. So I watched as Brett gave match after
match where he conceded an impossible amount of offense to underwhelming mid carters. How
could I take seriously the notion that this was the man He's dominating nobody.
He's barely surviving all comers like a heeled champion, but he's supposed to be
the conquering hero. How much longer can I pretend wow that this isn't crazy?
So I kept up a good face. A friend at the school mentioned
that Brett would be defending the Belticainst. Virgil that weekend. Channeling my perpetual
state of denial, I said, Yeah, kind of weird for Virgil to
get a world title shop, but Britt will beat him less than two minutes.
Did that happen? Of course not, he dominates nobody. I just
hadn't accept that Virgil got a bunch of offense and looked roughly on Brett's level
in my living room. The result wasn't to feel that Brett that the Virgil
overlooked, that Virgil looked great. It was to feel that Brett looked like
an absolutely pitiful excuse for a WWE champion. That's fascinating, yep. And
I still stand by the notion that it's bad booking to have never let Brett
ever dominate anyone. That seems absolutely crucial, crucial to putting someone over as
the very best. Frankly, I'm amazed that Vince ever brought into this model
of just putting on good matches without trying to make his champion the herculean.
Anyway, after the Titanic battle with Virgil, I was done pretending Brett.
Pretending Brett as the top guy was a joke which I started acknowledging to everyone
I knew. Hating Brett became one of my primary fixations as a wrestling fan
for years. Thankfully, rather than putting them off wrestling, it merely amused
my friends to know how incredibly angry it made me every time Brett narrowly escaped
with another win, and that was practically a weekly occurrence. I was eventually
to outgrow that feeling. Come WrestleMania twelve, he was clearly the cooler persona
than newly minted painful baby face Sean Michaels. So I got behind Brett,
worked myself into a shoot and actually became a Brett fan on that basis just
in the course of a couple of months, and it stuck for the long
haul. Just wanted to put in my note that where Virgil understandably saw that
matches a beautiful moment in time, in this youngs fan mind, it was,
at least for a few years, a breaking point. He gave Virgil
offense fuck you, we're done here? Wow? Yeah, I mean,
do you think it was necessary when they went with Brett to have him just
completely wipe the floor with certain guys? It didn't bother me as much.
Honestly, I didn't even think about that really, that he didn't do that,
because Hogan would give plenty of offense to people too. Yeah. And
also look at Savage. Savage to me was one of those guys. I
mean, he's what made him such a great babyface was that was his heel.
I mean, his selling the way he would sell it was unbelievable.
He was he is and always will be one of the best. And that
and that was what made it, you know, gave him that uh you
know, he because he always like he was about to die, and that's
what made his comebacks the more, you know, important, and the they
felt bigger. It's interesting because you wouldn't have had I mean, you have
Hogan working all these opponents all over the place, but they tended to be
ones of like, you know, more daunting physical stature than Virgil Visa v.
Bread, I mean virtual almost bigger than Bread. But I mean with
Brett, it was sort of like, you know, he was so cunning
and skillful. It was never that he could dominate an opponent. It was
that he was the best at pulling the rugout from under an opponent, luring
an opponent into a predicament where he would get the victory and he would pull
it out. He'd find a way to win. Butere Brett's you know,
I don't know, I think it would have been kind of awkward for Brett
to just start steamrolling people just because he had the strap. Yeah, I
don't think that would have been a good idea, at least not early on.
For sure. Is the champ, you know, with like the exception
of like a Goldberg play or a brutal play something like that, the champ
kind of has to sell, you know, you kind of have to you
kind of have to give the people when you're the champion more of a show
than just you running somebody over, like it's an opening match thing. That's
more of like when you were establishing yourself. But when you're already established,
you should know your character well enough that you can sell without sacrificing a tremendous
amount of you know, believability. At the same time, I get it,
though it was kind of jarring how right out of the gate instead of
building, instead of wrestling like a well honed challenger that was built up and
was like top ranked. Then you could see him giving more offense. But
he was just like he was having a tough time with Papa Shango and Virgil
like immediately, and that was perhaps a little too quick, but they wanted
to make him that fighting champion did it. He also did that early on,
like when when he was I remember, I remember when I would see
him when he when when I first started watching in the fall of ninety one,
it used to I was like, oh my god, he's like he
let jobbers beat him up a little bit. Yeah, he would get the
off the jobbers would get offense on him, and I'd be like, Brett
Hart's weak, He's not strong, right, you know whenever Jobbers got offense
it made me feel very uncomfortable. Yeah, that's true about the baby Faces.
Yeah, and while Virgil was kind of a job where he wasn't it's
not a Dale Wolf getting offense in on Prett. You know, It's not
one of those nameless jabrones, right, Leanne, Thank you very much for
your pledge. I guess the rule is if you had an action figure,
you could get offense in on Brett. Yeah, that might makes sense.
As we were talking about the death of WW, Christopher Cree, a long,
long time Rock Solid member of the Solar System, rights in about licensing
fees. He says, sorry, just jolted out of bed thinking about this.
Totally normal. You all raise this point with Brian Alvarez, but he
really and disappointingly because I love his comment to he brushed it off. If
modern wrestling evolved into a business model totally reliant upon licensing fees, and Brad
Siegal noted that the licensing fees turned a broadcasting paid WCW were deliberately suppressed.
It strikes me that we've then rather conclusively established no less than seventy five percent
of the liability for WCW's demise. But Siegel also noted it wasn't his call.
Surely there could have been no more than two to three people above his
pig grade with authority to do so, and they're all identifiable for public securities
filings. In the Hogan Discovery, I feel like episode three is the ultimate
setup for the massive swerve. While he gets into the ending there, but
yeah, I mean, that's huge that Brad Siegel basically says in that episode
that what they were paying WCW was not at all commensurate with what a network
like T and T would have paid a content provider like WCW in that market
in that time. It's not just that the business hadn't evolved yet to be
a sort of licensing first model. It was more of an advertising based proposition.
But still, even if I heard Brad Siegal's comments right, even the
going market rate in nineteen ninety six, seven eight, what you would have
paid for the kind of ratings WCW was doing was nowhere near where Turner Broadcasting
was allotting them in this sort of like you know, almost like this phantom
license thing, because it was all within the Turner family. The money,
you know, like on one side of Turner paying the other right. But
if they paid them, many were commensurate. But they would have been paid
if they shopped the rights around. And you know, USA or I don't
know, another network like Fax bid for Nitro. The kind of money they
could have gotten, it could have been. It could have transformed WCW's budget.
I thought there was a very pregnant pause from Brad Siegel in that point.
He very quickly kind of had to look at the ceiling and be like,
all right, well that wasn't I don't totally shoulder the blame for that
state of affairs, even though I don't know. That look in his face
tells me he totally does. That He could have served to improve the situation
and chose not to. Sure, Scott Gallagher, thank you for your pledge.
All the way up to that mote tier, we appreciated logan rights.
Andy Albeck's entire life, his experiences, his successes, his failures, his
trials and tribulations, yes, it all boils down to him being a stock
Russian character and called Nosferatu on some Patreon show fourteen years after his death.
You never saw it coming. No, carnies are forever. You're damn right,
Rob Strathman, Thank you very much for your pledge. Thank you,
Austin right. Sorry, JP. But what the brich British folk in that
book are failing to mention. This is when we were talking about that ninety
percent marginal tax rate. Yes, yes, that caused what was it Connery
to flee? No, it was, well, it caused Corn to flee
too. Everyone was fleeing at that point, but we were I was reading
specifically from Roger Moore's book, and that book are failing to mention are that
those super high taxes are only for the dollars earned at very high levels.
In nineteen seventy four, or five years before Moonriker was released. By what
I can find, the highest tax rate was seventy five percent, not ninety
eight or whatever, and only dollars earned above twenty k would be taken at
that rate adjusted for inflation. That's well our two hundred and fifty k today.
The top rates were super high at one point in like the fifties and
sixties. But again only rich folk had to worry about that still though,
I mean, let's look, I'm not saying that that it's not a lot
of money, but if you're making okay, i mean, you know,
looking at looking at his movies, he's making you know about you know,
roughly a million dollars a movie. Okay, at least a James Bond movie.
So that means that seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars. What did you
say, he's a twenty k? Actually, well he said two hundred and
fifty k would be the the equivalent today. Yeah, okay, so that's
even worse. Actually, So if he's saying twenty thousand dollars was the was
the mark, that means nine hundred and eighty thousand dollars was taxed, even
at seventy five percent, that's ridiculous given the choice to like just go somewhere
else and not pay it, you know, right exactly, The top rates
were super high at one point, like he says, commoner's paid somewhere between
a forty to fifty percent if anything, because people making below a certain amount
paid zero taxes. What you read we're rich. Celebrities like Sean Connery bitching
about having their income cap that a very high amount so the UK could pay
more debts back. There was a reason that US house, the US flourished
and dominated the world economy in the fifties. One. We didn't get our
ship blown to bits too. We had a very high marginal tax rate,
top end was near seventy percent. Love you guys, but the economics part
about tax exiles was off the mark. Brother, that's a yeah, that's
a that's a sore spot, that's a trigger stuff. I'm not I'll be
the first to admit, Yeah, absolutely, you know I'm not an expert
on that, so I appreciate the the clarity on that. I have no
idea, but it still just sounds like sounds like bullshit to me. Honestly,
you could understand why they did it. Tom ad a Nascio comes in.
The UK's tax rates in the nineteen seventies led to a huge amount of
tax exiles leaving the country. The Rolling Stones album Exile on Main Street refers
to their life as tax exiles in the early seventies. Very funny. The
marginal tax rate was eighty three percent for everything over twenty thousand pounds according to
the Bank of England, twenty pounds in nineteen seventy four, the equivalent a
bit of over one hundred and eighty three thousand pounds. Now they also had
an over ninety percent tax rate and all investment income. That's key I've attacked
you can't come tax rates. Of course, you have Tom from seventy four
to ninety if you want to really dig into it. Other famous tax exiles
from the era Sean Connery, Michael Kane, David Bowie, John Berry,
Guy Hamilton, Tom Jones, Kat Stevens, Rod Stewart, and many many
others. Yeah, it's pretty much the entire fucking you know, we're in
that. In that episode, we were talking about how more or less everybody
who was working on the goddamn James Bond series was was a tax exile.
Yeah. True. Now it was like what all the h the accountants who
serviced entertainers were advising, I'd imagine, right, or certainly not discouraging so
interesting. Interesting, Winkel, I don't know anything about all that stuff.
Yeah, that was a great learning from the Carneizer Forever series, and it
continues here in the me Back episode as you've come to expect. Jeff B.
Thank you very much for the pledge. We appreciate it. GMB eighty
five, thanks for pledging upwards to that EP t R erosion. Patel,
thank you very much for joining us. Alex Shwed, thank you very much
for the support. William writes to us on Patreon. IM imagining a time
where Cody loses the title and has to go through some hard times daddy and
has to work second jobs to make ends meet. We get vignettes of him
mowing yards in his flag coat, detailing cars in his flag coat, roofing
in his flag coat. But one day, while cleaning out a hoarder's attic,
he comes across a rat's nest. Then it dawns on him, I
know what I need to do. He goes out to his truck, takes
off the flag coat, and puts on a car heart that is also made
to look like a flag. But we can't see the back. He winces
as he looks up at the house and says, we got this steady.
As he walks up, we get to see the back of the car heart.
It says Cotin's rodents Panda, thanks for the increase in pledge. We
appreciate that the extraminader and I've always wonted Codin's rodents. I heard the service
is pretty good. Yes, Brandon Lynn, welcome to the EP tire,
my friend. Thanks for the pledge. Trevor o'donald, Welcome to VIP status.
We very much appreciate it. David Cammonester, a longtime supporter of that
mote tier boss. He wonders, can we please get a Mama Sorrow inspired
wrestling rink T shirt? Uh? Yeah, I've been trying to think of
how to really do it. I don't know yet, but I'm working on
it. Okay, good as later. Thanks for the increase. Appreciate it.
Dominic, thank you so very much for increasing your pledge to us.
Trevor o'd donald, who keeps going, keeps climbing, welcome to the EPT
here, Buddy Cody writes. Old men yell at clouds because a ring announcer
adds some energy to things for once. Sometimes it didn't used to be better.
Good lord, Boss, you can't be going in on Samantha Irvin like
that. She sucks. What do you want? Old men yell at clouds
because a ring announcer add some energy to things. Uh, I'll tell you
what I think added a lot of energy to things and didn't make it about
him. So I don't see what she's not good. She's distracting. Lee
Garcia put a lot of energy in things. She wasn't distracting. You know,
it's there, There are there are ways to do it in that it
doesn't take away from Like I don't I don't care about her, you know,
like the ring announcer. The ring announcer is supposed to be like the
referee in a way, like you they they they have a job to do,
but you don't want to take too much attention away, you know,
make the announcement and then go away. That's it. It's it's more Michael
Buffer and presentation than it is the others. Yeah, but even Michael Buffer,
like Michael Buffer. But yeah, there's a there's a thing about Michael
Buffer, like it's it's he wasn't even really showing off though in a way,
like it just feels like she's showing off, you know. Like that's
where it really bothers me, is that it feels like she's she's showing off
her growling vocal skills. Yeah, she's definitely doing that. Listen. She's
got an incredible voice. She is amazing. But what she does is just
like the thing about Buffer is that he's he's on a different level. His
stuff is so campy and and over the top that it's on a different level.
Like you can't you can't compare anyone to Buffer, really because it's so
it's so like iconic. She she's not there. She's not at that level
obviously, and maybe some days she will. Maybe some days she will be
as big as Michael Buffer, who the fuck knows, And I wish her
all the other luck. I just I don't think her way of introducing wrestlers
is appropriate. I don't think that WWE is necessarily doing her any favors by
hovering on her as much as they do before many events. Right, I
feel like she I don't know, she's doing things that announcers used to do
at ringside, And it's not like in it's not entirely her fault that she
comes off as thinking it about her because they chose I've been really surprised they
did this and people love it, so I guess, you know, I'm
just disconnected from from their thinking and the audience's you know, appetite for it,
but I've been surprised by how much they linger and lean in and like
make it about her, like annunciation and stuff. She's she's all of a
sudden become a part of the matches, and it's like, that's not what
their job is, at least in my opinion, not what their job is
supposed to be. Yeah, it's something that growing up watching Vince's stuff,
you know, we never ever were I mean, you knew Fink was was
a booming voice, but Fink was like a narrator. He was like,
Fink was like the voice over what you were watching. He wasn't on the
screen in those iconic calls. In a weird way, Fink was kind of
our voice, you know, like he he when he would announce a new
champion, it was our excitement, you know, like he was sharing our
excitement with that. Well, she does that, I mean, her voice
cracking when she announced Cody one and Philly. She does share she is the
voice of our excitement. But no, no she's not, though, because
it's not it's not about cracking. It's not about represents not about being us.
It's about it's about representing our excitement. Yeah, and when Fink would
do that, I mean, listen, name me another Samantha Irvin does not
give me goosebumps when she announces a new champion. Howard Finkel has done that.
Yeah, that's fair. Howard Finkel announcing someone is a new champion has
given me goosebumps before. When I went back and watched Wrestling forty on Peacock
after getting back from Philly, her announcement gave me goosebumps. All right,
well, maybe I should watch it. It's it's hard to it's hard to
know, like without watching it back, because she has to be a part
of a moment that justifies that. That's the only one so far as far
as I can tell, you know what I mean. I don't like how
they do the fucking title match in the ring like that. I don't like
that. I don't like how the champion is like standing on two sides of
the cage and they do the Bruce Buffer thing where like because Bruce is another
example, where like the announcer is like right in the and the foreground.
I don't know, I just feel like it. It doesn't enhance the right,
it doesn't enhance the wrestlers or the tension in the ring. It just
this thing you have to like sit through and it's it could be enjoyable,
but it doesn't. It doesn't enhance the the the anticipation of these two wrestlers
clashing. You know, they should almost be face to face with the ref
between them. While this is being read as opposed to Samantha Irvin between them
with the spotlight on her would right, the wrestler is a kind of like
a faded spotlight off to the side. They started I remember when they started
doing that. It was before her, but you know when they started like
saving the announcement of who the wrestlers were until both got in the ring for
a title match. Champion, Yeah, for sure those world championships up,
which I don't mind, you know, I don't mind that at all.
I think that's kind of the culprit Like even if it's okay and not like
bad, Like if you took that out, she would not I think at
the criticism she would get because she wouldn't be well, no, when she
when she announces wrestler's names, it's annoying. The heroman harangues range that whole
thing, like no, like yeah, I just don't. I don't buy
it. Yeah, she's very she's she's kind of like a sacred cow.
I've noticed, like you can't like say anything about her. I don't know
why people get very animated. It's like Sasha, like you can't. Although
we kind of make fun of her sometimes, but an aw fan, there's
certainly shitting on her every dutches of microph fucking. There's no sacred cows.
And and you know, if, if, if, if you need me
to, I'm gonna go in harder on her. If that's what you're all
telling me, exactly be careful, you'd be fucking careful thinking you're gonna throw
us off the scent the one really all you do is exactly make make it
more enticing. Doesn't compare here it is, she doesn't compare the voice of
a generation, No voice of a generation. Luca Zalez, Lucas Hibden,
John Price, want to thank you so much for your pledges and support of
the cast. Very much appreciated. Yeah, Zach's looking for long sleeved baby
onesies TLF style. By the way, if you're listening, Dicky Bird adult
onesies, Yeah, yeah, we could use some at this point. Considering
how much we're whining. Wire Tap eight oh four. Thanks for the bump
up to the eptier. We love it. Dicky Bird, just water iful
member of the Solar system is showing us the way with some of this merch
and also pledging generously on Patreon is as is only appropriate. We appreciate that
very much. Brendon Rosnew, thank you very much for the pledge, my
friend, we love it. Someone wrote, this is our friends at the
whole ball game. Notice someone on the Patreon asking about a playlist for the
Funker matches that were covered on the Funk Journey. Yes, yes, Blake,
I'm gonna get to that. It's tough because there's like this big master
list of matches that were on the compilation we used for the show, but
we didn't watch them all. We skipped some and it's hard to remember just
looking at the list cold which ones we skipped and didn't. But there's gotta
be someone out there, right, Boss done this already that I would imagine
so recorded to all the matches we covered on the lobs Funk. But yes,
a message received, and I wanted to read this on the shows as
a way to holding myself accountable. To go through the list one of these
days. I mean we're talking. It was over like forty different discs.
Yeah, it's an insane amount of of footage really, and we did a
lot out of order to like, we pulled the ECW stuff from like two
thousand and six up to the ECW episode and then went back in time.
We pulled a lot of the NWA title stuff to that episode, and then
we pushed out some of the Japan stuff. So it's all over the place,
but we'll get to it. Nile O'Neil, thank you very much for
your pledge. You very much support your your support. John from Nashville.
Here's the theory. I don't believe it, but maybe worth reading this in
a mail bag. Sure. In nineteen eighty three, Jim Barnett Leteorgie Champiship
Wrestling to work for Vince. He helped facilitate the Black Saturday deal for Vince
to buy TBS programming in nine in eighty four. In nineteen eighty four,
later on the ratings fell, so Jim Barnett convinced Vince to sell the timeslot
to Jim Crockett Promotions, and he used this money to fund WrestleMania one.
In nineteen eighty eight, Jim Barnett was gone from WWF but helped facilitate the
sale of WCW to Turner from Jim Crockett and then worked for WCW into two
thousand and one and all this is true. So my conspiracy is Jim saw
the ratings drop in two thousand and nudged Brad Siegel in the right direction to
want to sale since he was a ww senior consultant. Then he went to
Vince and suggested for him to buy it since they were old friends and he
could get a payoff from Vince for helping. And he also went to Stu
Schneider in WWF at time to broker the deal and convince Jamie Kalnder to drop
WCW programming on TV since it was a ratings bomb and a loss, effectively
allowing Vince to buy it for two to three million instead of way more.
Thoughts, I think Jim Barnett's influence at that point, like post Turner purchase,
was much more muted than that. I do know Bischoff kind of resented
him because he was still a senior consultant on payroll after Bischoff took over,
and whenever Jim Barnette comes up in his podcast, he gets very kind of
pissy about him exactly. I don't think he liked the idea that anyone but
him was considered the link between the wrestling operation and Ted Turner. But Jim
Barnett's position in that regard way predated Eric Bischoffs. I mean, Ted Turner
would lean on Jim and he was a powerbroker in Georgia where they needed,
you know, they had their base of operations and needed those that kind of
juice. And yeah, he was a guy that always knew what was happening
in the wrestling space, so we could anticipate Chess moves, although only kind
of kind of gamed him out a little bit before Black Saturday. But Black
Saturday was kind of Jim Barnett's revenge, you know, which you can't forget.
And yes, he did go to WWF and help them engineer those earliest
days of mega success in a very sly behind the scenes way. I just
don't I never perceived him as being connected with the Turner hierarchy beyond Ted himself.
You know, the Ted relationship back to nineteen seventy two Georgia Championship wtcg
all that, but I never perceived him as being someone that Brad Siegel would
even know the name of. Let alone right, you know turn two for
facilitating a sale or Jamie Kellner certainly. I mean, Meltzer has said that
when Jami Kellner got the job Turner and he used to talk to Jim Barnett
before he passed away, that Barnett's immediate reaction was, oh, Jamie Kilner
hates wrestling, so he knew the name, and Jamie Kellner's reputation preceded him.
I mean, he basically started the Fox network, he started the WB
network. He was an absolute power player in the television business, so wouldn't
surprise me if his feelings on wrestling were well known. As he talks about
in Guy Evans Booke, he even negotiated with Vince at one point in time
about potentially putting wrestling on a network that he's probably thinking about the SmackDown rights
honestly, in nineteen ninety nine for WB. I'm not sure exactly what was
he's referring to when he said that, but he was trying to counter the
idea that he has this like total aversion to pro wrestling and can't stand it.
But it was, you know, he knew who he was. So
that's one one degree closer than just you know, pretending to know this guy
or pretending to have any influence with him to know who he was. But
I don't know, I could be wrong, but I didn't perceive him as
being someone that was putting deals together like he put like he sort of semi
engineered the crop at sale to Turner. I just don't think he was in
that position anymore. Could be wrong. Wishing thought he's always the guy in
the background, like, oh yeah, he's around like fifteen years later than
you ever thought he was. You know, wwf was I still paying him
as consultant towards the end, and he was like talking about John Cena being
a superstar before they saw it in him. Yeah, he was like,
I'm pretty sure he was paid to review their television, to like watch it
and send in his thoughts and his notes until his until his death. That's
wild. I have no clue faster than Chuck writes him in the hospital and
I just found out that my right testicle is going to have to be removed
I'm devastated, to say the least, especially considering the litany of other tragedies
I've gone through over the past year or so. Maybe too All about the
hell was that maybe JP could have lapsed. Vince, tell me that my
right nut has to be removed. That way, something good will have at
least come from this post. Take it away. He did, He did,
he did have it done, and he did He's doing Okay, I
did read that afterwards, Yes, he did follow up. Well, first
things first, you're losing a nut and you're not really a man, now
are you. A man has two balls two sacks to produce the juice of
life. And what do you have? You have won? You're half a
man. I don't know how I'm supposed to come and empathize with you.
You did this to yourself. You created this problem for you, and then
you took the easy way out and say, here's the problem, let's deal
with it. He said, here's the problem, let's get rid of it.
I can't empathize or sympathize with somebody who can't take care of themselves.
So maybe you deserve to lose a nut. Maybe you deserve Maybe you deserve
to lose both be completely nutless. This is what he wanted, right,
I sure hope. So when you asked laps of Vince to comment, I
don't think you could possibly expect it to go any other way. I can't
imagine you being even worth just anything at all. Zo, go fuck yourself.
You have no symp You get no sympathy, no empathy, no sympathy
from Vince McMahon. Now that's breaking news. I have no sympathy whatsoever for
Brett Hard. Yeah, it's very glad to hear you doing better. My
friend is by lapsed Vince's feelings on the matter, And as a double bald
as Vince may be, I think his his ultimate demise may indicate that that's
not all it's cracked up to be. Either. It's a good point,
a good point. Being fully in out in that department might just end up
putting you in a position to live in infamy as opposed to uh glory.
So keep that in mind. As writes, I know that Jack and JP
are not fans of that far Ferrara, neither of I. However, Ferrara
was one hundred percent correct with what he wrote in the article that's the WW
magazine column we read on the Greed episode, Yeah, less is more,
and it seems like Ferraro was finally starting to realize that it's okay to acknowledge
when someone makes a good point, even when it's someone we don't particularly care
for. Yeah, but you know what, for me, that is true,
and I'm going to do that for some people. But when some people
who I can't stand make a good point, it doesn't feel authentic. And
I'm sorry I read that article. It wasn't he was like it was a
It was like a torrent of metaphors and like, oh my god. He
said he could have said it in a paragraph, and he said it in
like fourteen paragraph or probably thirty right, Like what the fuck if less is
more? Wisest column? So long? Right? Exactly? I don't know,
it's it's kind of a joke to suggest that he actually had like a
actually was anything but like the placeholder for Eric because he couldn't put you know,
he wasn't interested in doing anything creative quite at that point. But yeah,
I mean, if he was such a great counterweight to Vince Russo,
then I don't know how some of that Russo stuff got onto w Ciby television
when they were working together. You know, he obviously didn't crack Whip Whip
enough and they they ended up having a fallen out in TNA as well.
And I don't know, I don't know. I think my problem is I
don't really know what to assign to him. You can write it, you
can write that in a magazine, but the television was pretty brutal, you
know, So I don't know whether blame him for that or not. But
they were locking some things down, you know, they were kind of they
were progressing certain things in a way that made it at least somewhat sensible to
watch WSW television from week two. Everything wasn't so arbitrary. So I will
give him that, But I don't know. I just didn't think it was.
It was very inspired the way he Yeah, it's almost like he's forcing
paragraphs, and I don't appreciate that. Yeah, Neil writes. He quotes
Scott Steiner from the great episode Atlanta's a good town. I think Alan's going
down in history. Yeah, if you remember the context, and about Eric
Bischoff, he says, Look, look, he didn't want to do everything
he would have done in the w W relaunch he didn't ask to do everything
he would have done in the ww relaunch, which I think is great insight.
You can't blame for anything, Chris. Thank you, Chris, thank
you very much for your pledge. Welcome to the VIP tear. Paul writes,
is it bad that I wished I lived Bischoff's life, lapsed Bischoff's life,
or at least I've had a beer with him? There's a little bit
of that. There's a little bit of like love when we go through all
of his you know what I mean, cabin life. Of course, it's
it's just funny that it's that's living that life. It's the life. The
life isn't the joke it said. It's Bischoff living it, you know,
right, That's the thing about it, exactly, It's not the life at
all. It's the fact that you you look at this guy and you think
of him living that, and it's just like it's just such a it starts
to looks like a hideaway more than it does a retreat. And I can
picture it, like I can picture him like, yeah, it feels like
he's in running away, uh witness protection. Yeah, exactly, it does,
it really does. That's a perfect example of it. James Majory got
pretty inimitated about it. He wrote this on Patriot. He said, you
know, bishof Southwestern rancher cosplay is an affection endemic among rich boomers and aging
gen x, easy right in the cusp. They all crave the simple,
old fashioned authenticity of life from a bygone era, largely created by hagiographic media
depictions. The Turner Networks made their bones on here you go. Every celebrity
of a certain stature buys a quote unquote ranch. Yeah, that is that
is pretty obnoxious. Yes, they crave the wild West from a John Wayne
movie. But is a bloodless up a political aesthetic? No must see racial
politics here, just tending the herd, drinking coffee by the campfire, on
contemplating sunsets. Eric's cowboy costplays particularly rich as it is dependent on the type
of massive bank roll that only a high level media career can provide about.
Only he can simulate rugged bankrupt, he can simulate rugged individualism and reclaim some
relative animinity in Wyoming. But it's all paid for by reliving every embarrassing moment
of his very public life on a podcast. And that's the old min irony.
Eric wanted to transcend just being a wrestling promoter by acquiring all the nouveau
reish affections, his perfect teeth, his expensive motorcyclist, his swinging lifestyle.
Without the requisite crossover mainstream success, He's as he ever was a classic of
American striver hustling until he makes it. By now, he's nearly seventy,
and the only thing he can do is look backward to either the nineteen nineties
or the nineteen eighties. No, to either the nineteen nineties or the eighteen
nineties. There we go. That was I stepped all over A pretty solid
ending sentence there from James. My apologies. Yeah, I guess you can
like see politics in what he's doing, and I don't know he's he's he's
definitely costplaying. Yeah, But I think I think that's the thing about the
American Mountain West is everyone kind of is right, you know, because it's
it's hard to because you're so far away. I think I could be wrong
about this, but you're so far away from a lot of economic vibrancy that
unless you actually tend the land for a living, you have to have been
wealthy to come there and buy an a state like that, you know what
I mean, and not have to go to work, right yeah, oh
yeah, you know, or go to an office. It's hard to see
the jobs that would support that kind of a sprawling set up existing proximate to
it. So you it's almost by definition going to be people who made their
bones and now want to retreat. I think it is kind of And Jim
Cornette says that you know about the wrestlers that find religion, you know,
you talk to God where no one else will talk to you, right right.
It's a great recipe when you're not leaving much behind anyway. You're not
leaving much behind in terms of like social interactions people would choose to have with
you anyway by going so remote off the grid. And I'm pretty sure he
harbors like, you know, paranoia about like like a lot of people out
there, you know, like the government coming to take is whatever the fuck.
So there's a little bit of a streak of that in him too.
But I don't know, whatever, have fun, but it is, it
is. It is funny to have that like rancher, to want that Rancher
life but want the fake teeth. That is a hilarious combination. Of course,
it's a tremendous combination. Ryan writes the recent Hopper poles seem as legit
as anything wrestling. Oh yeah, this is what we're saying about people accusing
us of working the poles there, Sean, I'm sure there's proof of concept
pilot for reality series and Eric's life in Wyoming ten to two with easy.
Two o'clock is a very funny time of day. That's all I'm gonna say
about it. Well, it's a very funn time a day to wrap things
up, going take a shower, like to be coming, to be done,
to be done, like you know, you know, I'm pretty much
you know, I've done everything I need to do. I've gone into town.
You know, I stopped by the by the by the brewery. You
know, I had a couple of beers. Oh you know, was out,
you know, I had I had beers at a bar that, like
I convinced myself, has been there forever. But I don't actually know if
it has been like the guy that the people tell me, it's been here
forever, but it probably got built in the sixties. Let's be honest.
I'm probably get built two weeks ago. There was nothing here before that,
nothing, So why would this be the one thing, like like fucking Stonehenge
that survived. I would imagine that that it would be that if something was
to survive and kind of that that that part of the of the country that
it would be, it would be something happened to do with alcohol. Yeah,
yeah, well that's true. The booze has been swilling ever since,
you know, murderers went west to claim lands and take lands from each other.
Yep, adam too, writes Kevin Costner. Cowboy cosplay plus wife swapping
plus name dropping la executives equals Bishop Philip Wrights. Two hundred and forty burritos
in an hour would be an average of four per minute, or one every
fifteen seconds for the entire hour. Might be ambitious even for Dusty. It
is hungry, I mean, I think so. But isn't that the calculation.
Doesn't that how it penciled out two hundred and forty burritos? Is he
said it was two hundred and forty burritos. Granted we only saw one tray
comeand right and forty. I'm just so glad we did that because never again
can people say that like we're being unfair to Dusty by talking about him overeating,
when him talking about wanting to have he booked himself doing it, wrenching,
disgusting gas like that was all his you know, that's his idea.
Yes to the to the asked to be smelly, to the music Vince made
for him, right slave name. You know, God, that's something Cody
wants to pretend didn't happen. Yep, does want to be reminded of that.
That run for for old pop. Will said. The funniest part is
the fact that this idiot is supposedly from the mean streets of Detroit. Now
he turns butter and as well ranch. But he certainly he certainly smokes meats.
Yes he does. I said he smoked. I said, I definitely
said he'd churned butter. He prefers that way goes out. He gets the
fucking milk from his own cows and then he sits there. But he's got
like a he's got like a weird you know. The thing is he's he
doesn't have like a like an old school wooden churn where you're something from like
Sharper image, right exactly. Some it's it's electronic, you know, smart
device yes, the Internet of things all over the ranch. There's like digital
digital like monitors on his on his oxen like butter. That's pretty funny.
That's a rich vein to tap how he outfits everything with technology. Of course
he's hilarious. He definitely has a coffee maker that like bruise based on like
a barcode scanner inside. You know, yeah, definitely does. Oh,
no doubt for a second he does. He probably has a like that lux
one what is it called? You know what I mean? Yeah, like
the cursive lettering. Yeah, yeah, coming to a kitchen near me if
I have my wife by the way, so uh, I speak from a
place of of knowledge, William says, to the question about dust eating all
those burritos, he eats them like Joey Chestnut. He stands over the pile
and dunks them in big gulp cups of hot sauce and pretty much swallows them
hole, chewing only occasionally and pausing to remark, who daddy gots them?
Bubbleguts? Baby? So that's good. I'm glad that's cleared up. Matt
writes on phobia, mirror phobia shot stays high. I mean, yeah,
I didn't hesitate to send us the picture on X Did they Nope, they
did not as they as they should have. I visited the phobia website,
he writes, as JP was reading from it. Whoever from a faculty that
allows a man dressed like that into their school should be shot out of a
cannon and into the sun. Doctor Seawn, No, it's not okay.
Yeah, No, there needs to be there's some kind of monitoring. Yes,
there needs to be much stronger monitoring on on characters like this. Brian
Blake remarks, what, if anything, do people think Bishoff learned from his
three years in WWE and how did he apply it? Because it's almost eerie
how his buying WSW plan seems similar to TNH falling on its face with focusing
on old stars and Hogan supposedly mixing a young work rate at the same time.
Yeah, that's part of why I think we are so jaundiced, is
like we saw TNH, like we saw TNA. We saw what it looks
like when he doesn't have the shackles that he talks about towards the tail end
of his WCW career, and it was fucking awful yep, because it was
a complete miss and he had all the assets that he would have. You
know, try to build a WCW round. It seems like I don't know.
Man Hockeen Nights CT writes twenty five years after killing or canceled wrestling,
so T and T could focus on building an identity beyond syndicated TV shows,
movies, and sports. The channel pretty much broadcasts only those things. Yep,
yeah, we love drama all right, Yes, indeed do the people
a little behind the scenes drama. Zach keeps coming with merch suggestions. This
one's for you, Dicky as well. Over it chopped, we need the
we don't need the TLF muffler. We're good to stop at fanny packs,
the dustic election. I don't need chop t's to make TLF jeans with brown
skid mark stains. Sure, the Dusty collection the Dustin's collection. And he
says chiropractors are faux doctors in the same way pro wrestlers are faux fighters.
Very interesting. James writes the manifest Destiny Yeoman Farmer fantasy that Eric lives in
isn't even sustainable. He's still on this is great. Isn't even sustainable.
None of these celebrity ranches produce enough money for food to be self sustaining.
Yeah, that's what I was saying, like, you kind of have to
you kind of have to not live off the land, to pretend to live
off the land. That's why he's a fucking you know, he's a Hollywood
want to be producer, you know, as he's and that that's that that
that pays for his for his fanciful you know, rural life in the middle
of nowhere where he can claim that he doesn't you know that he's all the
high speed internet right exactly right, exactly, the highest fucking speed Internet,
but the fastest fiber in the land. Listen door talking FiOS times three thousand,
actly right. He lives out the land to look like he lives out
the land, not to live off the land. Look at my barn coat
exactly and my truck again, and everything is smart. That is such a
crucial detail. Everything he's got ring cameras, he's got video does on his
own, okay, is like go out and hunt that I can see and
fish. Yeah, when it when it, when it creates immediate sustenance.
Great, yeah, right, of course. It was like he's got a
he's got like so many things hooked up to Alexa. His little microbrew,
you know, micro crew beer. He's got you know, his butter churn,
his his power point loaded exactly. He's got a you know, like
even even like his garden. It's all timed through Alexa to be watered and
soiled and whatever. It's so funny. This is the funniest thing in the
world. I don't care what anybody says his forefathers. That's so funny.
Oh my god, oh shit, Oh so many showers. I know.
None of these celebrity ranches produce enough money or food to be self sustaining.
The substance farmer costplay. Like so much of the vapid lifestyle of the rich,
it's only possible due to an unseen army of underpaid servants. Eric gets
to stare into the middle distance at magic hour, coffee cup in hand.
I love how offensive you find it that Eric drinks coffee and at the sunset.
That's tremendous, Okay, while an army of foreign laborers do the real
work. Kind of like WCW shit, that's good, good stuff, man,
Mike, writes Jack in response to the boss imitating Midwestern dad sitting in
a Steiner recliner telling his kids to shut up. And I say, that's
as ann arbor as it gets, he says. Mike says, this is
on the money, signed in an arbor. Right, that's really funny.
So that's good to know that my pull out of my ass fucking reference point
resonated. Zach writes, a very important point modern fans have lured and challenged
all broken down old legends that you aren't shit unless you come back wrestle and
get a craft a chance. You still got it. If you can't do
that, then you're the shits and not as important as the legends that will
go through this exercise. That's right, That's so true. Jeff Wrights,
how is that Greed episode from that podcast you pay twenty dollars a month to
listen to? They spent over an hour breaking down Eric Bischoff's ranch life,
So the best thing I'd listened to that month. John Brinkman, thanks very
much with the pledge, same to you, im Hen two five to two.
We deeply appreciate the support. David writes. From my understanding, having
a scene where a match is on TV like Natural Born Killers is enough to
qualify for cinemat Is that true, Boss, Well, yeah, that's how
Natual barn Killers was was eligible because there was wrestling on the screen. He
says. If that's the case, I hope the co chairs do a deep
dive on me Familia starring Jennifer Lopez, Edward James, almost Benjamin Bratt,
Jimmy Smith set all, we'll do it. There's a match on TV about
an hour and eleven minutes into the movie, The Mexican American Chicano Latino.
Whatever the fun we're supposed to call our Selsia's days, it would be appreciated,
the Boss, the gauntlet's been laid down. Me familiar. That's a
big list, isn't it. Oh, we'll get to it in twenty fifty
one. Maybe I'll see what's that. I'm wondering what it's a what it's
about? Polly cautiously says what we're all thinking and part on greed in part
one, I want lapsed Bischof's Slow Ranch Life. Part two, I want
to chair at laps Dusty's Thanksgiving dinner. Yeah, that spread sounded fucking amazing,
and my innersnight is going to be woefully inadequate compared to the description thanks
so what we're here to do. Ryan Schwartz, thanks for the pledge.
Welcome to the eptire. My friend Luke writes, Bischof's fictional life actually sounds
incredible. A lot of that coming in across the transom. Yeah. Justin
Harmon, thanks for the media pledge. We appreciate it. Martin Zamora,
thanks for jumping up to the eptire. Same to you, Dorian Brown,
enjoy under the cinemat. We appreciate your support. Ken Canal, thank you
very much for the pledge. Same to you, Steve, and same to
you Rich Molton. Longtime supporter. Andrew Hill, thanks for the meaty pledge.
Do enjoy. My friend, this is JW. Can you imagine actual
human investors listening to Bischoff's convoluted words. So, like we read from the
WW magazine, I like to think the deal was canceled when they saw the
article in the wrestling magazine. The other conk the only concrete thing in that
whole interview was mentioning Bill Goldberg and five other wrestlers who had worked for WCWE.
That was some that was eye opening to read what he was putting out
there in those those fertile days. All that is really fascinating. John Callahill,
thank you for the pledge. John Kraft, big time Dick swing and
write it to the moat tier. We love it. Grek Taylor, thank
you so much for jumping up to the executive producer tier. Arpi and Polo
Dog went strong in the paint right up to that fucking moat tier. We
love it. Hide the Ball in ninety two, thank you so very much.
In Taylor Hammond just became a three sixteen member, and we thank you
for that. We mentioned earlier, Nikki writing that the cast was played no
small part in inspiring We talked about inspiring artwork, we talked about inspiring other
podcasts. We talked about inspiring music and other beautiful things. And Nick talked
about how the podcast inspired him to try to unionize his workplace. Remember that
one boss, I like that. We dropped that and he followed up on
the tail end here to close this episode out with something that I think puts
a bow on it nicely. I messaged at the end of the Funk Journey
that the Funker was inspiring in our fight to unionize our workplace. I'm here
with the update that we've won our case. With the stat and the words
of the body. I got my union. I got my union. When
we sign a contract and the raise kicks in, you bet your ass.
The co chairmen are going to get a taste. Hey, love it.
You're in my ass basically the entire time I'm working. So if my pockets
are going to get fatter than so are yours, I need to dive into
that moat. And that, my friends, is the way it should be,
and in that spirit of TLFX and the way it should be. We've
got one announcement here as we wrap up this summer twenty twenty four Millbag Edition,
very special tournament is about to kick off. Yes on the feed,
you've seen laps fan Hall of Fame moments drop in fuego on the feed,
you've seen TLFX testimonials from so many of our insightful listeners, and you've read
to heard us read through letters coming here on meal bag shows and other formats.
You've seen LATS transform access to the catalog. You've seen so many wonderful
innovations from the best fans in podcasting, and this is one we're really excited
to bring to you. The time is now. The time is nigh halfway
through our ten year celebration announcing the TLFX games. Yes King of the Cast,
Yes, King of the Cast. Put together by listener Russell, who's
done yeomen's work on all this stuff, is our countdown tournament thirty two in
the bracket to determine Boss the greatest tlf character of all time. Thirty two
entrees sixteen matchups really should have like a thousand, but you know, to
keep it easy, I suppose thirty two is good. I would love to
hear feedback at the LAPS fan at gmail dot com if anybody is missing from
this list, if anyone should be taken off of this list, But in
consultation, here are the thirty two we've decided on and keep it locked to
our x account. This is all going to take place on X. We're
going to be posting matchups between lapsed characters and the full bracketing. We're going
to post perhaps some insights and some thoughts from the the various participants. Maybe
I don't know Boss, maybe some event center promos to come might need to
have that yeah about their upcoming opponents. And by the time it's all said
and done, you will decide which tlf character has entertained you the most over
the course of ten years, and there's going to be some tough choices.
You probably already have your candidate in mind right now, but maybe it's it's
a toss up between two and what if those two face each other in the
first round, who are you going to pick? That's right. So we'll
use x's polling function to basically pull the solar system for a finite period of
time on each of these matchups, and by the time we finished le breting
TLFX at the end of this year, we will have determined not only are
these great Hall of Fame moments, but the greatest lapsed character of the past
decade. And now presenting the bracketing he has an audio form and coming in
visual form very soon to the lapsed fan's ex account. Are you ready,
boss, I'm ready. In the first round, the British Bulldog versus Lee
Marshall, Oh, good lord, good Lord, Sid versus Stu Hart Well,
I heard Sid isn't going to show up though. Lanny Poffo versus Klondike
Bill. Some of these are just funny just to read. I mean,
you just think about it. Kevin Nash versus Fritz von Eric. Ooh,
that's tough. Andre the Giant versus Bob Coddle Vern versus Harley Wow. Jesse
versus Oie Wow Jr. Versus Sean Mooney Warrior versus Vader, Kevin von Eric
versus Terry Funk. Oh, my God, Flair versus Rod tron Guard Wow,
Dusty versus Jim Hurd. That's a tough one. Jesus Loise, What
are these folks gonna say in the spirit of the American election this year We've
seen elections across the world, the UK, France, in this campaign,
this TLFX campaign, what will they be saying on the hustings to get your
support? Savage Savage versus lapsed Hogan whoa mega powers collide? That's that's that's
I mean to think that in the first round one of those two is going
to be gone. Yep. That's what a good tournament does. Crazy lapsed
Scott Hall versus lapsed Jimmy Barnett, lapsed Vince versus lapsed Patterson. And finally
lapsed Lord Alfred Hayes versus lapsed Stone Cold Steve Austin. It's the king of
the cast. It's TLFX games, and it's coming to an next account and
a podcast feed near you. Get your ballots ready and look forward and keep
your ears peeled as well as your eyes for the cases that will be made
across the spectrum, across the brackening. You know who you think is going
to win as we read all those names off, But will you feel that
way as the weeks turn and the winners and losers are decided and people you
thought would go further? Don't tough decisions to come? But that's, of
course the way it should be. As we soldier through ten years of lapsed
We'll see you next time. Announcement. As a t J to Santus production,
its content is intended for private use only.