Good morning, friends and friends, I am Julio Pérez and this is the
train of life, a radio adventure along the routes of the heart. I
want to invite you to travel with me and dream together in a better world,
a different world where men and women of good will can live in peace
and freedom. The train of life is a magaxine of good news and hope.
This is a radio time specially designed for people like you and like so
many truth seekers, of the only truth that can make us truly free come
Te, I invite you to travel with us on the safest train of all,
which will certainly take you to safe harbour. This is the train of
life. Well, good morning, Spain. Bon día, friends and friends,
from this corner, from the solarium from Barcelona to all the towns,
to this mosaic of cultures, from our wonderful country, this solarium that is
the Iberian Peninsula, the train of life, traveling through more than a hundred
Spanish cities every week. We start today with a luxury guest sign. Ladies
and gentlemen, don' t miss it. Let' s go there,
ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, also all the pilgrims out there everywhere
look not only on the mobile devices and on the different Spotify platforms or they
may be tuning us directly or through our page. Three or Naput even in
Jupiter, in Saturn, in Neptune, on the moon may be listening to
us Martians, the Murtians too. But Martians too and can connect with us
directly on the train of life. And we have a company of friends this
wonderful morning. We have four fancy interviews and we' re going to take
advantage of them very well. Today we have in our studies the pleasure,
because I say that since I met Carlos catar is a man with a very
peculiar empathy and moreover, he is a person made to want easily, but
he is a man who has a very important experiential experience and he is helping
many people to solve, since what we would call a crisis of identity,
an authentic crisis of identity. We will talk to Carlos Cataric, who is
a writer and lecturer in different countries. Now in Spain he' s giving
lectures. He lives in Canada, but travels around some parts of the world
as well. And Carlos is a writer and lecturer and he' s going
to talk. It also offers some workshops on the subject. He will speak
today regaining my true identity. Who I am. I, I am what
others say that I am, I am what I have imagined, but I
am not really. I' m really who I am in its pure essence.
You know this about the drak queens who are doing workshops in several Spanish
cities, including on a terrace. Regretful that we have to do this,
because obviously, he is an activist prolegtbi the mayor and promotes this type of
workshops, which may be what he wants. But it means the drack queen
to teach the children in those workshops. It comes to be this in the
end clearly, that the children who go to their workshops get dressed in baby
baby and in the end think that if they really are babes, they could
be babes. And if they' re babes, they could be babes.
You tell me if this is a receipt. No, but well, there
are things like that, not that distort human identity. But there is much
more to say about preserving our essence, our identity or when it has been
distorted, how, how to work them, if anyone wants to recover it.
Well, Carlos can talk a lot and well about this and we have
him here this morning on the train of life. Then we will have our
psychotherapist Judit Casso or this woman' s agile verb and look let' s
talk about a practical issue in families, jealousy between brothers. This is a
topic, uh, because when one is only worth, but when the other
comes, that the previous one tends to have locks when I don' t
zeal higher grade and if they are more brothers, and this sometimes becomes a
nightmare for parents, how to approach, how to deal with this at different
ages, jealousy between siblings. Today the Jewish psychotherapist will guide us, help
us untangle some unknowns who do not know how to solve them or focus them
on the issue of jealousy between brothers. Here, on the train of life
and my good friend, Dr Luis Carballosa, doctor in history and also doctor
in theology, and is na the doctor who is a man who has been
my professor of various subjects in Christology and eschatology, I always remember. But
also, a man who is often also with us on the train of life,
a great teacher of God’ s word. Let' s talk to
Dr Caraballosa. The question is Genesis, the Book of the Origins of Humanity,
because some say that the first eleven chapters of Genesis are, let'
s say, somewhat pejorative, that they are not exactly the beginning of things,
a subjective way of describing origins in the way that the most liberal aware
say, but there are not many others who say what the text says and
what is true. And besides, Moses was a man of exquisite training from
the time he had. It was written in forms in synthesis. He was
a true Moses intellectual of Egyptian culture and wrote the book of Genesis. Well,
they wrote five books of the pentatheuch, but the book Genesis is a
masterpiece of universal literature, as Dr Carrollos will answer this. It is the
genesis, or it is a myth, this of the history of genesis,
of the creation of the human being, the creation of the world, of
the universe. Or it' s true. And if it' s true,
how can we make sure so. It' s good, so don
' t miss it. But finally, in the final Sprint there is an
interview of Digital Protestant with my friend journalist Daniel Ozca, director of Digital Protestant,
with yao mallenas already tomorrow is the coordinator from Spain of the whole Commission
that is going to travel to Seoul to the USAN, that world conference,
the most important in the Christian world that is held every twelve or fourteen years.
Since a thousand nine hundred and seventy- four, the Lausan was inaugurated
by Dr Bill Graham, and it was an explosive call that changed a couple
Social paradigms were changing. The Church had to make a bet a day and
that made an impulse in the vangilization of the world to this day. In
fact, it is the group, the most growing emerging social group in the
world today is Christianity, but good that it is a biblical Christianity, also
not a simulation of Christianity. But then we talked about that thing. Conference
in about twenty minutes already or tomorrow brings us up to date on that great
event in Seoul, in the capital of South Korea, where there will be,
then, exhibitions, panels, forums, discussions, works from a sociological,
anthropological, biblical point of view, of course, theological, and then,
how to make summaries and how to bring this down to our national realities.
And well, it' s going to be a spectacular conference, about
five zero representatives from about 120 countries around the world and among them, and
I' m also honored to attend, to be summoned to that conference as
well. But the important thing is the conference itself. And then, then,
we' ll keep working. So, don' t waste it this
morning. We have stuff and good stuff on the train of life, because
come with me come on, come on, let' s go. You
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thief in Monche, bandages adie the day and the hour Samón. There are
signs that show the messy towards these cock has prepared me free for my church,
prepare another hour and return the king return soon Church prepares and returns hour
and returns to pocho in a viz will be seen we will be snatched and
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brisrades we will be caught up and that all, together, like the two
Saints, his we see to be loved certain bremamente devir de certa. I
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horror mor el gaño ve a no take to gsino that to walk to her
coming saw her eat for the wild groom sea. There' s no homor
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when he sheep and all through the nudium is the good kills Church Breva air
and will return and return to be imprisoned or soocris sondo, the Law of
Traffic and Road Safety has changed, we change the rules, because the way
to move has also done so. That is why now the deadline to recover
the initial point jump is two years, without committing infringements that involve the loss
of points. New times, new rules, Directorate General of Traffic, Minister
of Interior, Government of Spain, will see in the ultrasound evidences in this
effect, indicating that after birth he may have problems of integration or difficulties in
exercising professions of responsibility and even situations in which his physical integrity or his life
is endangered. But what is it doctor, you are going to have a
child. Discrimination against women in society leads to abuse without justice and ill-
treatment. Don' t let him. They' re coming in. Act
with Amnesty or Amnesty International. If you want to visit our website, the
train of the life of ladies and gentlemen. Well, here we are in
the Magistrales wagon is a headcar. We' re very close to the locomotive,
uh, but it' s a wagon where we welcome very good friends
to talk about everything. Here we speak of everything, of all life,
and of things of life, things, heavenly things, and earthly things.
Also, of course, we are not, we are not androids, we
are human beings, but we have had an experience with God, with that
good God who loves us so much and is a very powerful reality that affects
our life, mine and also our guest, Carlos Qatar, that I want
to present. Carlos is a writer, lecturer and he has lived a very
unique experience and has become a kind of coach, a companion of people who
need the help he himself, at a given moment, also received to get
out of an identity crisis. I would say serious and he got it and
he tells it to many who find God' s blessing in that new proposal
that he will explain to us at a welcome moment, Charles. Thank you
very much. Porth Julio Hey, it' s nice to have you here
traveling to Europe, seeing at least once a year. In the last two
years I have come four times, four times, to Europe. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah, sure,' cause you come a long way
from Canada. No yes, in Montreal signify today how beautiful Montreallito, for
look at it and then come to Europe, well, the great Europe,
the self- complacent Europe, the sophistics of Europe, the unbelieved Europe.
I can give you titles, eh because, as soon as you know,
there are in Europe, because we talk about questions in the key of faith
and Christian as well and realities that we will now comment on. But the
idea of the European Union, which has been de- Christianized by forced marches
of what was the cradle of Christianity, in addition to being the cradle of
democracy, not only Europe, but Protestant reform. Oliver Corombell and others were
the driving force behind democracy, which was then perfected. But really on this
continent, Christian Jewish culture wants to erase itself from the social imaginary. They
interpret it to be blaming, that it is repressive, that it is this
pass, that it is a chronicle, that this has already happened to history.
I don' t know if you perceive that too by those lares.
It' s the same thing, especially in Canada. It' s a
copy of what' s going on here. Yeah, well, look,
I can have some fun. Yeah, yeah, like I meant, let
' s finish what the psalm says. Two didn' t all come together
against the Lord and Christ and said let' s break their ties. Let
us cut this and remove from the social imaginary, Judeo Christianity, which has
been the cause of many evils. Not that those who don' t understand
the story well, because they want to tip it off. It is true
that a part of true, Christianity. It was a spurious Christianity and but
that would be another matter. Carlos tasting a man. Joe you have Carlos
arenta I just got to the fourth floor, fourth floor, that or,
well, I do, yes, yes, hear forty years, whoever was.
Uh, then, look, well, I' m telling her to
be. But I have the marquietus rooms and then I remember. When I
was forty, I ate half the world, I tried to eat it myself
before they ate my lives. But Carlos, who is Carlos Catari For our
listeners, tell us a little bit about yourself about your personal story. Today
I could say that I spent a lot of time looking to find out who
I was. Today, thank God, I know who I am, but
I remember those times, because of the sexual abuse that I lived in childhood,
because of my father' s rejection, because of my mom, I
was such a strict woman not knowing who I was. Feeling little man,
feeling insufficient, is comparing me all the time with other men at the same
time that I lived an addiction to sex. He' s too young because
of so much abuse. There' s a point. Out there, like
when I was fifteen, where I think I' m what I feel there,
what I feel exactly, then I feel betrayal for this I' m
gay, because that' s what I feel, what I feel I defined
that I lived it bitterly, because I tried to see whether or not I
fit into society. I felt like an extraterrestrial, until, over there,
about fifteen years old I discover what the LGBT Plus community is, where they
tell me yes, here you are free to wish what you feel, here
you can belong, here we receive you with open arms and it was the
first time that I can finally put it as a label to my identity.
I' m gay because, because this is what I feel and there I
found a sense of belonging in that community about fifteen sixteen years. After that,
when I make my way out of the closet and tell my family what
happened to me in childhood and at the same time I share that I am
gay. My mom, who was a pedagogue and she really has a very
good ability to analyze and make you analyze. She tells me son and if
I had never been sexually abused in childhood, I would be homosexual I understand
that not all homosexuals were abused and not all abused so homosexual, but this
is my case, this was very frequent. That' s right, yes,
it' s a lot of experience. It' s not always already.
Clearly, it is already interesting to underline. It is. The point
is, when she asked me this question, I say wow. I'
m probably the result of what someone else decided in childhood. Why do I
say this, because when I lived the abuse, the abuse was pleasant,
it wasn' t violent. Then the abusers sought, through the persuasion of
the games, to become addicted to what I felt and then perpetrate the abuse
to a greater level. But they make me addicted. Then I understand that
he enjoyed this and that I was finally a victim of what they induced me
to do. There. When she asks me this question and she says good.
And if I hadn' t been abused, I say wow, what
would my life be if I' d never experienced so much intimacy with so
many men since I was five years old. I said maybe I wouldn'
t be here, maybe I didn' t like men. And there I
begin to fight now with this identity that came from establishing itself. And I
remember I said good. I don' t want to be gay, I
want to be straight, which I thought was the solution. Today I understand
that this desire to pass from heterosexual homosexuality was a disaster. It was the
worst thing I could do, because I didn' t have any attraction for
women for men, a woman and a chair were the same. There was
nothing there and I wanted to force myself. So I lived for what I
felt up to that moment, but now I struggle with what I feel about
it, all of this I' m living as a mateo. We were
not Christians, we were Catholics, not practitioners. We thought more of the
Dart O soup, of the evolution of the monkey, the Big Bang.
That was our belief. And at this point I have the opportunity to go
to the movies and watch a movie that transformed my life. And this film
of which I was totally ignorant is the passion of Christ. When I go
to see, I thought that Jesus, who was passionate about women and was
a romantic movie, but I had no idea. Today I understand that it
was Jesus' passion for his wife, for us, but at that time,
for me it was one more movie When I entered the film I understood
that Jesus did what he did to give me a new life, that he
gave himself to give me a new life. No one explained it to me,
but I understood and I wanted a new life and I wanted to change
my life. Soon I start going to a church and that' s where
I tell the pastor. Pastor, I don' t want to feel this
anymore Before I was a Christian, I wanted to change. And now what
do I read what the Bible says? Well, more than that, I
want to change that I had back then, not 20 years ago, 20
years ago there, in that position, I' m struggling to change what
I feel. Then I lived for what I feel Now, I fight against
what I feel. The shepherds said good to me, Carlos, you have
to force yourself. You must seek this to obey the word. He'
s looking to change. You have to honor God and I really tried,
but first of four hundred and fifteen fifty- six says that the power of
sin is found in him commandment. So, the more I focused on the
most sin commandment and I didn' t understand what was going on and they
told me you have to fight, you have to ask for more. I
asked God to change my sexual orientation I liked men better. It was hell
and that hell I saw for eleven years inside the church. I made trapigs
of change, conversion traps where they wanted to take me from heterosexual homosexuality.
It was a disaster. All I did was increase that anxiety, that desire
to change, that desire to not feel good about myself and I couldn'
t accept myself because of what the word said, but I couldn' t
change in spite of my effort and there was no choice but to keep fighting.
There is a moment of breakdown where, after even having a relationship with
a boy for seven years, we get to the point where we said well,
this relationship is over and I understand that I am frustrated. I am
tired of fighting what I feel and there I look on the Internet for how
to be gay Christian, because I wanted to look for God different and I
fall at this point where your verse even the word, so that now the
word will submit to what I feel. Then I lived for what I felt,
I fought against what I felt, and then I twisted the word.
Because of how I felt. All this was an identity based on sensations.
What I felt was what I was heading until finally I have a point where
being in the worst state of sin addiction to pornography, sexual encounters with man,
applications to all suicidal depression. There, at that point I have an
encounter with the Lord and through someone, the Lord tells me that the problem
of many Christians is that they have Jesus as their Savior, but not as
their Lord. When I understand that, I say wow, I said this
is the reason for my life disaster. Jesus is my savior, but my
lord is me and that' s where I gave up his heart to day
and I said, Lord You know I don' t care if you change
me or not I just want to keep you becoming my Lord. I did
not know that until that moment I had made my desire for change an idol
and I sought God to change me. I did not seek God for whom
he was and all the time I focused on changing. What I did was
nurture that idol. It was when I give up the idol, that then
my life is transformed and there I finally find out who I really am.
I discover that I am all that he says, that I am, that
I am his son, that I am loved, that I am forgiven,
that I am a new creature, that I have his spirit, that I
am one with him, that I am holy righteous, the clean without blemish,
that I was created according to his righteousness and holiness of faith that four
hundred and twenty- four, that I only have to learn to live,
not by what I feel, but by what he says. There is a
text that allows me to understand this very clearly, and that is to snow,
before the fall, they lived by the word of God. God named
the animals and he named the animals. He didn' t argue, but
when they sin we see how he says. We didn' t see each
other naked and cover ourselves. I was scared and we were scared and we
hid. I mean, it' s not what God says now is what
I perceive, what I feel, it' s not what you say anymore,
but my own perception, my own feeling, it' s what he
directs me now. And that' s the way humanity lives. So I
lived by what I perceived, what I felt until then I had an encounter
with God, I give him the heart of truth, I give him that
identity based on sensations to take again the identity that is in the word.
And today, that' s who I am. I am all that he
says that I am a man, that is, Carlos Qatari Is, he
recovers his identity, that you understand that it is your original identity, his
essence, that it is to be a man, as he said, a
man, as God kills, not exactly in the sense, not he alone
in a sanctimonious, nor a puritan, nor anything, any man, a
man that is the gender that is assigned to you and that you rediscover it
through the grace of God, because never better said no, because you discover
grace. Perhaps your first stage was a well- intentioned Christianity but based on
human effort, on the biblical law of desire, of personal effort, which
one must cooperate with. One thing is to cooperate and another thing is to
impose on you this and that which then you are repressing the instincts that re
- emerge from everything not from this and anything. This fact hears there is
one interesting thing in what you have described to many interesting things in your personal
testimony. We could just talk about this. But there is, for example,
this about conversion therapies. I think it' s a wrong term and
clear is in fact, now they' re even banning them. They'
re explicitly forbidden from an imaging therapy of you not. There' s no
conversion therapy here. Here is a person who voluntarily listens to a testimony that
has a conflict with his identity that he does not just do it and realizes
that he does not, that he does not want, but he does not
want and that he says listen I would like and when he hear a testimony
like yours at best, find a little pattern of the grace of God,
that I, grace I identify it as the catwalk is not when you go
to an airport of these kilometers and you carry a maletorro and such and if
you go around to cabar baldad, when you arrive to the area of embarkation,
not because they are of these airports kilometers or in Miami and you make
it dead. No. But if you go on the gangway that takes you
to the boarding area, you don' t get tired carries all your weight.
And for me that' s the grace. It' s God'
s gateway when you tell him Lord I can' t, but I want
you to touch my root, my essence, because that conversion therapies thing is
being tempered. Not above all secularism, camper secularism and, above all,
the VI LGBT is very proactive in this subject, but even Christians that term
I have never liked conversion therapies. It just sounds. Sounds like a casquisian
to me These conversion therapies are heavy. That is, I wrote an article
every week in one of our magazines that are read throughout Latin America, protesting
digital and writing conversion or doom. Speaking of conversion, I put three cases
in the new will of conversions of different characters. One of them was the
Ethiopian nuco preaching by the power of the word that Philip approaches him and was
reading aloud and telling him what you read and I don' t understand what
I read, and Philip explains no to him and that man experiences something inside
him. But, well, then there are two more cases. The theme
of conversion to Christ is neither homosexual, heterosexual nor Marcia. It does not
mean anyone, of any personal situation, whatever it may be, can experience
a conversion, a catharsis from the root of their being, which is a
methane, and a change of mentality, and through one comes a kind of
repentance. You realize you don' t go the right way, you ask
God for forgiveness and start a new life. So that' s the conversion.
But there is no conversion therapy. That' s a roll and if
used in something well intentionally with some Christian group here in Spain. I don
' t know him, but I heard him around. It has nothing to
do with conversion therapies that we' re talking about. Right. No.
No, no, no, because when I talk about trap conversion, it
' s that sexual conversion that' s part of homosexuality, the hesterosexual.
I experienced that kind of therapy in Venezuela when I lived in Venezuela more than
eleven years ago and it was really as much as they said good. Carlos.
In your case it is evident you lived abuse, rejection of your father,
in your mambre, strict, addiction to pornography, addiction to sex with
men. This is why she' s the one who was gay and I
was saying good. Let' s just say I agree with you how understanding
roots changes. What I feel, what I don' t want is to
feel this attraction and they called me good. You have to keep objecting to
the word. Then we went back to the same thing. It was self
- effort, self- effort and they called me good. Biology. God
created Adam and Eve, the man, the woman, and I said I
understand, I understand that I believe Adam and Eve, but I have no
attraction for Eve. I don' t have and I like Adam what I
do. I mean, I don' t want to feel this. And
they couldn' t help me in any way as much as they wanted to
always stay there and they wanted me to regret something that I didn' t
even decide, because I didn' t decide that I liked men. I
find I like men. Then what I discover ended up living and identified me
in what I feel, but I didn' t decide then how to regret
something I didn' t decide. It was very complex, but very different.
It was when I understood that God is what does not believe my change,
that what he wanted was my heart. When I give her my heart
and tell her I don' t care what' s going to happen to
me anymore, I want to follow you there. It' s done mateo
says that twenty- five where it says whoever wants to keep his life will
lose it. I had already lost her so much focus on my life and
then he says that he who loses his life because of me will find her.
It was when I lost my life, I put it aside without caring
what was going to happen, just to know him, that then he was
working with me with my heart and led me to a new understanding of the
Gospel, to an understanding of his forgiveness or an understanding of life, of
the spirit, of the new nature. And there I realized that what God
wanted was for me to raise my mind that I no longer lived for what
I felt, but for what he said. But I had to understand what
he was saying. He really hears that it is interesting what you count,
because that other is a totally correct way from the mobile, Christian and biblical
run, because it gives us to understand how the change in the conversion of
anyone has the identity, that has or that has a crisis of identity occurs.
There' s a lot of people who have to say, not just
a sexual identity crisis and a personal identity crisis. He doesn' t even
know who they are There are people who have a very diminished sense of their
inferiority complex, others of superiority, others who remain a messianic complex, that
they are believed to be the saviors of the world. Between us there are
a few of them as well and then, obviously, the crisis of identity,
of affectivity. Not then and when you start to discover and I think
the key word is God' s grace, but really this is wonderful.
When I arrived through the film The Passion of Christ, I came in love
with what he had done for me, unfortunately, within an extremely religious church
where all the focus is what I have to do for God. Then it
is no longer about what God did for mankind, but what humanity has to
do for God. That' s not the good news. That' s
the good one Those are the good instructions or the new instructions. What we
have to do for him to please him. And there, then, I
always fall short when I return to this point of abandonment that I give my
heart and decide only to focus on it. Then he follows the lord again
to reveal to me everything he did for me. His forgiveness, he carried
it through for me, the circumcision of the sinful nature with the Censes two
eleven did it for me, the new nature, the then birth. When
we believed he does it for us, he gives us his nature. So
now I no longer focus on what I do, but on what he did.
And it' s in that freedom that then I find out who I
am? I discover a new, a new truth, a new life that
was hidden in it. In fact, because we' re talking about sex.
I didn' t go beyond hehomosexuality, heterosexuality. I passed from desired
homosexuality to Jesus And once I am in Jesus and understanding who I am in
him, it is the year that the Lord shows me that I have the
ability to be with a woman, that I am going to be able to
give a woman a place and that for me was a discovery that I did
not expect, but I have to say it. Many times I was told
Carlos, but the original design is male and female. Man and woman,
I said, but I just can' t make it. I can'
t and they wanted to take me to that original design. Today I understand
that the real original design and I' m going to say it is not
man and woman. For me, the original design that broke when Adam was
about to sin was not heterosexuality. In fact, it was after sin that
they joined. The original sign that breaks is the union between humanity and God.
So, if we focus on the original key design, what we need
to do is to return to the father in Christ Jesus and let the person
be guided by the Holy Spirit. There, the Holy Spirit puts everything in
order, sexuality, mentality, finance, everything. But then it is not
a matter of sexuality, but to return to the father in Christ Jesus and
let spirits see the source, exactly to the source of our origins of everything
hears. But what you haven' t said, but it' s very
interesting that people have to know and that you' re a married man,
well married. I also met you with the previous visit with your wife,
that she is now pregnant and has not only pregnant, if I am not
pregnant, double two, pregnant and she is really looked so happy before we
were in the office chatting and of course all the changes not that she has
life is a gift and gift on gift what if she does me because I
have no longer sought my life. I was looking for him. Then say
the word make the lord your delight and he give to the desires of your
heart all my life. I focused on my heart and it went wrong When
I focused on him I made him my delight, then he himself took care
to give me everything my heart desires, but in a heart that was surrendered
to him. And there today my wife gave me that really, as I
say my wife, if it had been my turn to choose a woman for
me, I would not have chosen her, because my imagination would not have
reached that level. She' s beyond anything I could have imagined. And
not only that, but now I get a whole family all at once.
He gave me two babies, a girl and a boy who gave the father
how good they are being born in September. Thank God it' s good
to hear about being a father. I have two children already married and grandchildren,
but well I remember that covering of my life, the happiness of having
children and enjoying them. There is also there that is medicinal also when you
have children, when you have any and I also come from not exactly that
background, from this crisis, but from a troubled world. And when you
recover your essence in God, in Christ, and when you recover your true
identity in Christ, because I have a motto. I want to be like
Christ, but not because of the effort I' m going to make No,
no, I don' t want to be like I admire Christ.
I like the way he talks, I like what he teaches, I like
his purity, I like his approach to life, his redemptive plan. But
I follow him but knowing I can' t do it in my strength.
If it were not for the Holy Spirit, this would be a total failure.
But we have joy when we have loved in Christ, as Fesius says,
chapter thirteen. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit and he is our
helper and like me when every day I talk to him at any time,
day, but nights very particularly. And the Holy Spirit is so rewarding,
so precious. It is hear, fifty- two years later, Wow,
fifty- two years later, I am excited to be a child of God
and live near the Father' s heart. And it' s my passion
for my wife and my children, too, that you can. But in
grace, in grace, totally in grace, not in human effort. That
' s why people ask me, Carlos tells me, I want to change,
how you changed. I tell you, because I didn' t change.
I tried everything to change. What I did was die. I died
to myself and then he transformed me. But in my strength I didn'
t change. And where you invite yourself to die, to surrender your heart.
You remind me of Paul' s text to the Colossians. If you
can have risen with Christ, look at the things above where Christ is sitting
the resurrection at the right hand. The father says because you have died exactly
and your life is hidden with Christ in God. I mean, it'
s one there that explains us. That' s where we have the keys
to our understanding of what this is all about. Carlos, inexplicable. I
see it' s your book, a book, which is a success,
your shirt, but that makes a lot of people, but Carlos' s
explicable prece to taste a book that has had a lot of resonance. You
can find it on Amazon' s platform. Carlos catar Se, I recommend
his testimony, but with a few scraps of what he is talking about now
very interesting on Amazon platform. They can acquire it directly anywhere in the world.
Because inexplicable, because if we look at it this way, I experienced
a miracle. But I experienced him when I stopped forcing myself, when I
stopped trying, when I stopped looking for my own life. And that'
s where people tell me Carlos, but how was the process, what did
you do, and always got them killed. And dying, as in Christ,
is the only thing that gives us a true life. Then I tell
him what I experienced was inexplicable, but on a biblical basis you need to
stop trying, understand what you have to do, how you have to do
and stand aside, die yourself, renounce him, my lord, from your
mind and let him and his word be, lording you there the fruits of
the spirit. The fruitage of the spirit will manifest only because you are nourishing
the water of truth. The truth produces that fruit, but you need to
stop arguing with God with your way of thinking, You need to give up
that, Lord, and only and you will see transformation, because the truth
makes us free, but we need to know it. We need to really
not intimidate with the word, because, for example, you are already evident.
Twenty years have passed with struggles it also gives to get your affirmation in
God, also discovering the grace of God as the great resource. No,
because, of course, in the Christian world there are sections of the Christian
world that interpret the Christian life and this is true that we must cooperate,
we must obey. Obey er is an act of the will and you are
not a total passivity. But I hope he' s religious legalism that you
do this, do the other thing to be a good Christian. And I
' m not saying that you don' t have to do what you have
to do, but you do as if that gave us points to be super
Christians, better Christians or to get out of a personal situation. There is
a lot of days, because I know that the Lord is going to break
my chains and so and so all that kind of things interpreted like that without
realizing a kind of religious legalism in evangelical version. In this case we no
longer speak in other confessional versions, as the problem is still there. In
fact, I believe that what most bound me to sin in those eleven years
within the church, because it was from twenty to thirty- one, almost
thirty- two, was the religiosity, the true monster, the true monkey,
because they said that this is a spirit, that this is power.
Do not look at the true devil, great power is called religiosity. It
was having misunderstood the word that kept sin bound for so long. I didn
' t understand forgiveness. I thought I always had to say Lord Forgive me,
Forgive me, Forgive me, until I expected that I had not understood
that he had forgiven me, I had not understood what had paid him the
bill. I didn' t realize he looked clean on me. Then I
always looked dirty, always saw myself in my sins in my world. Then
I looked at the Cross hoping that that suffering would make me like to come
to my senses and stop sinning without understanding that there is a word that the
Lord Jesus uses when he speaks to Paul in fact twenty- seven eighteen and
says to him that I call you to receive the forgiveness of sin by faith
in my inheritance with the saints. The word that Paul uses there for or
that Lord Jesus uses there for forgiveness is affesis afesis in Greek, means forgiven,
leaving them as if they had never done so when I read that And
I no longer argue with God, but he is my lord I said,
Lord you are telling me that you see me with if I never lived what
I lived, not why I did not live it, but because you took
it from now on. Lord I' m going to see how you see
me, I' m going to look clean holy just with a nonexistent past
before your eyes. The enemy will always want to travel through what we did,
and I will always want to travel through what he did to us.
It depends where we put the mind how interesting. Ladies and gentlemen, especially
many good ones. Anyone who is listening to us, be not believers of
any denomination or be non- believers, but there is a key there are
people who are not necessarily believers of anything, but have conflicts with the subject
of their identity because they think they hear ah clear in schools, today you
say when to the first of change, when in evolutionary psychology it is not
that we have training in this. Well, there are crises, transitions,
not the crises of change that you don' t really know or what it
is. Because good. That' s why sometimes children or kids go or
masturbate each other or do things because to have the sexual impulse, to have
satisfaction and such and you don' t know even if you' re nothing
at all is just immediate gratification, not what experience, that experience of sexual
drive And that if you do this with such a weight, with a woman,
with a man, you' re that And stigma doesn' t then
internalize that lie And it' s the power of lying. It is the
power of innerized lies that occur within us, well, within those who live
it. So, a psychosomatic transformation. Even this is the I have proven
it in many cases in biblical counseling and when we have gently untangled that in
a conversation, not in compassion therapies, but in a dialogue, because the
person has wanted and more has already asked. Listen please and you' re
free. Help me. I have a conflict. I' m what I
really don' t want to be, but I think Italico and some of
them, then, have rediscovered their true identity. Others have not wanted and
nothing, for God helps them in the way of life, but each one
chooses what he wants to be. You understand and I respect and defend the
freedom that someone who has not known the Lord has to say I feel like
that. So I am what other choice he has If the Lord does not
know that is what he feels, but now I also defend the freedom of
him who within the Church, fights with what he feels and does not want
to be what he feels. That person also has freedom and live a different
life. You don' t have to align with what you feel in a
while, because give in to this. Then, when one understands that there
is a freedom, that there is a reality, an identity superior to sensations,
that is life in the spirit, that you need only believe the truth
and you will see how sensations and everything aligns with the truth, that person
gets freedom. Then he who has freedom to live as he pleases, who
defends it, but who also defends him who is not content with what he
does, people, I want to live differently. Gentlemen, we are talking
to Carlos Catari that well, besides writer, his great inexplicable book, which
is I recommend in any case that you can acquire it on the Amazon platform
and you will enjoy it very much. And well, we' ll be
a few more minutes, but right away, let' s hear a song
from our remembered and beloved Julio Melgar. I am no longer a slave to
fear, for fear is one of the non- paralyzing things. I lived
it for a long time until I understood that my mom, until I understood
that she was a son. Let' s listen to this beautiful song and
we already commented on a series of issues, workshops, etcetera in the final
sprint. Amen I am with a song of everything sings yes ner in fear.
I am not, I am a son of God, I am of
God. The belly is my love yes I received in you your saint my
own I am no longer exclaimer, I am children. I' m God
' s son, I' m not anymore. Eclade demodo, I am
the son of God. I' m not a scra anymore I' m
a son. That' s rolly for the parent grapples or for songs.
Li Verde we were led dora we are as you sing mother, oh me
o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o
o o o o o o o o I am not a son to you
are you dress mother and I am a son of God. To your gras
or son. You don' t know or I just know I' m
his son. It' s my mother and my father loves me I just
know I' m his son? Well is my father, my father,
my sister? I just him that I' m his son and he'
s my father and my father? I' m gonna be, that I
' m his son, and he' s my father' s and my
father' s? I' m his son and he' s my father,
my father, my hmay or? If we keep going after listening here
to Julio Melgar, freed from fear, I am not a slave, because
fear really paralyzes us. Eh puts us in a prison and you dwell all
the fear of man, the fear that we and when we do not know
well goodbye we have a fear that is not healthy. Nor do we,
when we have my novel we didn' t get near that mine had passed
me. How many fears we are surrounded by fears of all kinds, eh
and who bad. I, when I received the liberation from the fear of
the complexes, which had a lot and dwells you well, dwells you to
live, dwells you to die, dwells you to the people and how many
fears we do not follow with the theme of Carlos Catari inexplicable and it is
precisely that two Sundays to the friends of the Barcelona Area that can enjoy it.
But then we' ll talk about there' s also an open course
online for everyone who wants to follow up with your instructions. And all you
put forward in that workshop is a training workshop for pastors, leaders and evangelists
who in an appropriate way and I think really not only biblical, but intelligent
and kind and affectionate, because I told you before. I' ve lived
very closely. I have good gay friends today, some are believers and some
are not, but I maintain a very exquisite relationship. The truth is,
because to me they' re people like everyone else, exactly, I mean,
honestly, no more of a homosexual than a heterosexual. This is,
this is, this is some kind of stigma. We' re all sinners.
I have a sentence. I say no homosexual will ever enter the Kingdom
of God and no heterosexual either enter into the Kingdom of Today new creatures because
they were accepted, because they accepted and pardoned God for their sin. That
' s what gives access to heaven. It' s not sexuality. Yes,
and I told you that of my friends or I remember a couple of
them that sometimes even as with them and we talked, they are very affectionate,
they are very affectionate, they are very empathy, very very very and
some of them, because it is in that crisis. Or we' ve
talked about whatever they want. Not here is nothing forced on anyone or rolls
of these therapies. It just seems to me that word is totally inappropriate and,
besides, I don' t like it. It seems to me,
it' s kind of a way of manipulating someone to see if a therapy
makes it something else. No, that' s just jesus that makes us
who we have to be. And it is holy spirit that gives the true
condition or righteousness. Yeah, so let' s use that term correctly.
So I, I can talk and enjoy and we tell each other things about
career life, about work and by someone says good, but this is that
you have to get away. Not the other way around, it' s
just that I think it' s a mistake to either anatemize people, not
because of their sexual identity, because it feels like one who can' t
get close to someone. I think there are mistakes that we have to rule
them out of our lives. And I' m telling you, especially the
parents. When a son announces you, especially to Christian parents, he announces
that he is homosexual or that he has an attraction for men or a girl
for women. The tragedy is not that he announces that he has that attraction.
The tragedy is that he is placing his identity in what he feels and
not in the word. So, when you understand that that way, you
realize that your son may have been born in the Church, but it doesn
' t mean that he was born a Christian. He needs an encounter,
and only an encounter with God, which will propel him to surrender every identity
to divide into the real identity of the word. So, when we understand
this that way, we know that the problem is not sexual, but that
' s where you put the focus. That is, that is Jesus,
when Jesus remembers, when Jesus begins his public ministry. But besides, there
are so many scriptures that speak of this, of the mouth of Jesus and
of the apostles. The time has come to pass, the Kingdom of God,
has approached repentantly and believe in the Gospel to the whole world, to
the whole world and I told you when Jesus said that they judged him because
he was a friend of tax collectors and sinners, of course what is the
stratified society of that time and another model, another social paradigm, of course,
they judged him because he was comuloni to see, because he ate publicans,
that they were the discarded, the collaborators with the Roman invader and that
were therefore, hated by the good ones in Chchens looks very well the image
of mateo that interprets it very well, not anymore in the form of asper
that it was also, it is curiously, but it is very well done.
This series isn' t very pretty. But really, when Jesus I
have said, meets publicans and sinners, sinners, we are all, after
all, all. But it was, like a scornful word, with the
class, with the marginalized in society, the whores, the prostitutes, and
but there were the feminized, the whores, not feminized, the whores,
the eunuchs and the ephebes who were marginalized also and were considered sinners. And
Jesus among the sinners of all those who were socially marginalized, Jesus was with
them exactly and how Jesus was. With a bad face he was saying getting
in the sun. Jesus loved them all, loved anyone who approached him,
but Jesus loved them with a beautiful look, with a sword. He preached
to him the Kingdom of God, the Kingdom the word of the Kingdom.
His word was the one that pierced the hearts exactly and it was the one
that touched my soul to the depths and I realized my moral state. No,
and I, on my own initiative, saw myself in a mirror and
said I' m dirty. I need you to clean me up. Only
you can do it. And so it happened. And that' s where
we have to bring people, that is, an encounter with him, his
presence, his love. Then the person because of feeling more committed that you
need a clear encounter. Therefore, notice inexplicable formation for pastors, li leaders
and evangelists and also presentation of your book. Inexplicable that there is a lot
of raw material that can be here also on Amazon and on the screen.
Those who are on Facebook like are now able to see it. It will
be this Sunday 23rd of June, here in Barcelona, at seven o'
clock in the afternoon, but to reserve the square and know as who is
interested, that in this case they are pastors, front- line leaders,
elders or pastors people who are some psychologists who want to collaborate in this to
help evangelists, people who also have relations with many people, even leaders of
group formation groups, since they can be this Sunday 23rd of June at seven
o' clock in Barcelona, in the center of Barcelona, precisely, but
to make the square book, they have to call six fifty- eight pardons,
not rectific. Six hundred and fifty- two, seventy- eight,
seventy- eight, seventy- six. You mean take note of whatsapp to
send an audio, send a message. Six hundred fifty- two, seventy
- eight, seventy- eight seventy- six. There you go. I
am such a guy, I am of this Church, of this Christian collective
and I want to represent this and I want to be with Carlos and receive
that workshop that time, from seven o' clock in the afternoon. I
guess until later, if there wasn' t going to be a question space,
that' s the best part about the question and answers from the channel,
we took about two hours, two hours to total, because there we
expose everything, because remember workshop for all those interested in this topic. Pastors
of front- line leaders to counselors, trainers, leaders, groups, evangelists,
psychologists, Christians who want to reserve their place through the Whatsapp. Six
hundred and fifty- two, seventy- eight, seventy- eight, seventy
- six have to say who they are, where they come from and they
are evident to be that type, for that is for exact informants. It
' s not a thing for everyone, because it' s not the case.
It is for those who can also note that they need tools. Saying
hears exactly. People need help and ask us and we want to evangelize how
to connect, how to help the one within the Church by fighting as what
position to take before the one who twists the word, how to speak again
about all that we will be talking about and that same thing online. Now
you' re going to start an online course. No yes, in fact,
what is going to be on Sunday is two hours, but there is
an online training that you just launched yesterday, after months of work, of
editing, of videos, of editing, and it is a formation of ten
hours, almost eleven hours, where I expose everything. There I speak of
sexuality, the new sexuality in the spirit, when the renewal of the mind,
evangelization, examples of evangelization have finally been believed. What to do when
they tell you this, what to ask, what to answer, how to
discern the person' s position to see how to speak, how to be
effective in advice for leaders. What to do if this interview good, there
I give all advice for parents. There I saw everything I had, which
is a formation I have been giving over the last two years to more than
three zero leaders already at the level of different countries. Compilet in this training
is available online on the hotmart platform Looking for inexplicable training. Carlos cathari Or
in my Instagram account Cathric Carlos a pardon, arroba catari Carlos there is in
the biography. I' ll also apply it on Facebook. Yes and you
loved that in all these years, more than fourteen zero people, more than
fourteen zero people have written to me in private asking for help, telling me
Carlos, I am in the same position that you were in. I fight
with these attraction I don' t want them and I don' t know
what to do. I' m looking to change, I can' t
look to accept myself either what I do. And for that reason if you
' re going to do training, because I' m not going to do
enough. And on the other hand, there is an etziporus also that I
like very much, which is that to date, more than 300 people I
have testimony, more than three hundred twenty people who have experienced a transformation in
their sexual orientation. Because of abandoning the idol and believing the truth is that
it is infallible. If it is taken as it should be taken and understood
and assimilated and internalized as the word teaches us, the effect is a total
supernatural effect. My Roman life eight or six. I think it says so.
The mind set on the flesh is death. The mind placed in the
spirit is life and life. And the problem is not the flesh is neither
is the spirit where you put the. Mind. There' s the key.
Yeah, that' s interesting, listen, Carlos, how many things.
I imagine that all these years and why you could have said well,
I have come out of this life that I realized was not my true identity.
I felt concerned when I heard the word. I had a problem.
I realized that also through religion, I could not discover the grace of God.
That' s what he comes to say. And now I live in
the new life. I even found a woman I loved and loved and now
we' re getting married, but we have family and I live my life
in peace. And this and that, why you want to help people,
because I understand what many are living. I spent years looking for help,
looking for testimony and looking for a lot and finding where I said good.
I used to be gay and now I' m straight. Glory to God
and I said so. But what do you do with temptation, what do
you do with what you feel, what do you do with thoughts, with
memories, what do you do when the sensations invade you, what do you
do with this because it says the word that I wanted more and found nothing
trap It was based on effort. And when I had my encounter with God
that he transforms me, he himself tells me now I' m going to
tell everyone what God did for you And well, here they have happened,
already, here I go is how the win- win doesn' t believe
him. Jesus makes a miraculous transformation, but miraculous is the unexplained transformation.
It is explicable, yes, and it said humanely for intellectuals. Unexplainable,
exact because it has no human explanation, but explainable from the point of view
of living faith in God and of course, someone wanted to be with baby
jeufe to yours, to Hecapolis and tell them all about all these great things
that the Lord has done with you, but I have a question. The
language and this maybe you' ll agree with me. I believe that evangelical
believers in general, there are many people who know how to have the right
attitude and language, no, but I think we have h but others unconsciously
do not want to be jealous to say hey I go if it is the
issue of homosexuality or transsexuality, that that is already another problem that we cannot
address, that this one does have friend. We have already said something about
slant, but I really believe that we believers must speak in a good way
of these things totally. We should not unconsciously be jealous or angry, because
there are manipulations of the public authorities and of the total lob to implant,
colonize this, this was, we are not fools, come on, that
looks, but shamelessly. But our answer has to be, in addition to
intelligent, kind and correct. It does not have to be violent or aggressive,
because it is not appropriate for us to be taken to prison for persecution
against the Gospel, but not because we do not know exactly. Yes,
sir, well said. I think we need to be careful about that and
talk about how we talked here. It' s not that they' re
incompromising to put their convictions into it. It means this is like when you
say I am inoffensible, because before anything tasted bad to me, I was
very susceptible to being angry. No, but Jesus has also been generating in
my heart an unspeakable spirit for and that is a symptom of love. Love
makes you inoffensible because you see people with other eyes and love people in general.
It is Jesus in us that we have received God' s love for
the spirit that has been poured into our hearts. And that love is an
unstoppable force. Look at that. I' ll tell you. Fifty-
two years later, I feel more excited and look that my conversion was a
total fury, It was in my context of an army of people who came
to Mr After, friends, family and well, well, a lot of
people. The thing is, the emotion of living Jesus, of living in
his grace. But when we address any issue like this, let' s
be as careful as we need to be and which and we can talk about
what we need to talk about. Nothing else would be missing yet. Democracy
is in place, but let us be respectful and correct. Yet, and,
if I may, many people with this subject speak of sin, sin,
when the true good news is what Jesus did with sin. That is
where we need to focus on that message of reconciliation. God was in Christ
reconciling the world to himself, not taking into account men' s sins.
It' s a very strong message. It would look like super grace,
but the truth is that grace always leads to transformation. Yes, yes,
it is, friend, because Carlos taste and remember this for the last time
to everyone who wants to take advantage of this workshop in Barcelona, the presentation
not only of his book, but of this workshop of questions and answers about
the topic, a session of a couple of hours this 23rd of June Sunday
in the city of Barcelona. Take advantage of those we have at carlos around
here at 19 hours for pastors, front- line leaders, evangelists, counselors,
psychologists who also want to talk about this, with this tone and with
this tarannat as Christian as there is. And then, for that they have
to write to reserve place, clearly identify who they are, where they come
from and so on. To the Waxat at six hundred fifty- two,
seventy- eight seventy- eight seventy- six, I repeat the Waxapp six
hundred fifty- two, seventy- two and eight hundred seventy- eight seventy
- six in the city of Barcelona. In the same city. There you
will have this Sunday 23rd of June, at 7 pm, this meeting,
this mini workshop, this with talk colloquium and the inexplicable book, which can
also be acquired by any of you through the Amazon platform. Carlos. Thank
you, infinite, uh, thank you, thank you, thank you for
inviting yourself from opportunity and truth, that I am very happy already the other
times that we have spoken and always, for it really is your naturalness,
your authenticity, no and I say it sincerely and your commitment, because also
with the desire to help people who have the one who says no, I
feel well like this and so. Okay. Well, it' s your
choice. Of course, we have nothing to say here. Here we don
' t go to people hear it has to be changed, because I want
you to be like I think you have to be It doesn' t mean
that whoever asks for help and someone offers it to them because there is a
crisis that there is someone here who does and is carlos taste Amen, for
even forever, friend, until the next, until the next or pre on
the train of life life, I slept, but my heart was watching and
I heard a voice. My beloved was at the door my beloved sister,
my precious dove. Let me in. My head is soaked in dew.
The humidity of the night runs through my hair. I' ve already taken
off my clothes, how to get dressed again. I' ve already washed
my feet like on their hills. Again, my beloved passed his hand through
the opening of the hill. My bowels shook. As I felt it,
I got up and opened it to my beloved. Drops of me would run
through my hands, slide between my fingers and fall over the dice, open
it to my beloved, but I was no longer there. He knew how
to leave and after his voice my soul went. I looked it up and
I didn' t find it. I called him and he didn' t
answer me. Mmmmmmmmmmm. If you were to call another tipper like the last
time I' m not the same anymore. If you call another fool,
it makes you safe and tired. You want to be yours, I'
d open the door to you without hesitation. I wouldn' t do it
to you. I wait I have no strength and call again how smart I
am, it touches my heart again, that shivering garden that withers away.
If you' re there and you call again that ready I want to hear
your sweet being a secret between the two of you, the intimacy of between
uncles together without using others I partner to distance would be my daily bread.
If you got another one from up to my door. You wouldn' t
have to wait for an answer or I' d skip my heart for your
presence. I wouldn' t make you wait. I don' t have
a force. I don' t know I don' t know I don
' t know I don' t know. If you' re there,
call me today that I' m snooping I want to hear your beeings,
be the secret between the two of you life in between. Your gone today
to call how clever I am, my heart returns to your face that garden
of intin mida that is wilted and ours. Today to call you smart to
listen to your sweet zero secret between two black shy depre ion you call again.
Mr Newton' s First Law, if on a body no force acts,
it tends to maintain its state of rest or movement. If your child
gets fired from the car because you haven' t properly put in the child
restraint system. Leave everything behind. He leaves behind his favorite toy. Leave
the chocolate biscuits behind, leave your kiss of good night behind. It leaves
you behind. Don' t play with the kids. By your side we
all go, General Traffic Directorate, Ministry of the Interior, Government of Spain.
Never leave me alone in the bathtub or places with water. Don'
t let them emit luis fingers and a hinchufi. Don' t leave me
at the age of an open window. I' d tell you within reach
of tosic substances or a thousand roads. You don' t let me swallow
the small pieces of toys. If you neglect your eyes, you can be
dangerous to your children. Don' t neglect to avoid accidents. For what
you want most Ministry of Health and Consumer Affairs, Government of Spain, you
travel on the train of life. Or, ladies and gentlemen, we come
to the colors of life and a color that is so human, not so
much of all mortals and already from the earliest childhood, are jealousy, the
envy that are cousins brothers. It seems the same, but it' s
not exactly the same, it' s almost the same, but jealousy between
brothers and at different ages. This is today' s particularity. Where jealousy
between the brothers originates. So, to you suddenly well, they actually originate
in our minds, in the minds of our children, of our brothers.
It originates in there and because it originates in the mind by the interpretation that
is sometimes correct or sometimes incorrect. Of a certain circumstance, that is,
when the interpretation is correct, when my parents are truly exercising a fatherhood between
me and my brother, unjust, of injustice, that one receives more than
another, that one is given more possibilities, more privileges than another, that
is, jealousy appears in our minds. When the interpretation is correct. We
are experiencing concrete circumstances that make them correctly interpret that that is unjust and,
therefore, make us feel and develop a feeling of jealousy or not, Or
sometimes it is because we are misinterpreting. I have some dads and I saw
a mom and a little wonderful that are fair to us more than any judge
could do. And at the same time I feel equally jealous because I believe
that there is also injustice after being a correct or sometimes mistaken interpretation of certain
circumstances. That' s where it originates in our children' s minds.
Then we feel or our children feel that way because they perceive in some way
that they have lost exclusivity at home and in the face of that fear.
The problem of exprisility is not exclusivity in itself, but they are afraid that
this will mean a number of things. For example, the feeling of loss.
I' ll lose my parents, and my little brother will be taken
away, or my older brother takes away all the flowers. The feeling of
being replaced. This little new boy will replace me or I' ll abandon
you my parents. If they had to choose between us. They would always
choose my brother or sister a feeling of rejection. My parents love my brother
or more my sister than me, a feeling of a vision of inadequacy that
I am not enough, not that pleased, enough. I haven' t
reached the level they were waiting for to be loved like my brother or my
sister before. That' s the problem, one of the main problems of
jealousy that it is contain all those fears that have to do with the feeling
of loss, of that exclusivity, of that unique place that I have at
home and that when a brother comes, I have the feeling of those who
appear. In addition to this perception, it may be grounded, as we
have said in circumstances and explicit behaviors that are true or not, or in
a distorted self- image, that is, that the child has a bad
image of himself or a misinterpretation of the behaviors they are carrying out and,
therefore, he tends to compare himself and always live happiness through comparison and being
better than, because that has to do with the malfunction of the child'
s self- image, comparing himself and being better than to be able to
get the affection of my parents. Then that compendium makes all this develop.
This feeling of jealousy and, therefore, indicates to us whenever we see these
jealousy or this feeling that originates our mind, as long as we have it
or detect it in our children. It means that it is a long time
the feeling alarms us, it detects us that there is some conflict in my
mind actually, or a conflict, as we said, of the distorted image,
that is, only through competition and to improve and be better than my
brother, or the feeling of never could be better than my brother. Therefore,
you do not need to fight a distorted image or not. Or those
feelings that indicate that, as parents, we are wrongly exercising parenthood, that
it is not a problem of our child' s mind as it is interpreting
more, but that we are being unfair and having a favoritism or certain behaviors
that we will see later, that indicate to us or that indicate to my
son that yes, that we love one more than another. The truth is,
it' s already a very interesting exit description. There are brothers who
do not have or have ever been jealous of each other, for they are
not. Actually, if we are very, very honest, we should answer
that not what does exist and we will see why they would say bu because
I have never been jealous of my brother or brother has never been jealous of
me. And well, what exists are brothers who have felt jealous, that
is, that feeling is alarm. They appear, but have managed internally and
has been fleeting. And those feelings have been fleeting because we have managed them
properly within our mind. And they have also been able to do so because
their parents, for example, have helped them. Or they have also managed
the education between both brothers or all the brothers, that is, the brothers
who do not demonstrate in a physical way, they do not see their behaviors,
because the feelings remember that we can only detect them in others in the
form of behavior. If I see someone crying, I will know or be
able to detect that they either feel anger or sadness. But if I don
' t see him crying or I see him smiling, I won' t
know that that feeling is in there, because that happens with jealousy, just
like any other feeling. So what happens is that those jealousys appear in our
lives. That feeling appears, I can read the series of thoughts and then
I learn them to gestio onar internally, that is, I learn to interpret
properly that I, who am living or my parents help me interpret it properly,
so those jealous behaviors do not appear. In this way, what we
can say is that the philosopher’ s stone to avoid jealousy is to know
that it is natural, that it is natural that those feelings sometimes come into
our minds. It is normal and what we should do is work as parents
to help our children disconnect the true origin that has connected that feeling, which
has made that feeling appear and work with them mentally. Then children have to
learn to work mentally and manage those feelings, and they can only learn them
and we teach them and help them, so that the parents who work jealousy
the most, teaching, helping the child to correctly process that feeling and understanding
that there is a series of detertaments such as he would be abandoned, being
rejected, loving me less that they are lies, san saber s NS.
In doing this, those jealous behaviors will not appear. That' s a
probability. The other is that jealous behaviors do not appear because we hide them
and because my family is a very bad thing. But that doesn' t
mean there' s no jealousy, but we hide them. Sure. Of
course, but I say before the birth, for example, the birth or
adoption of a new child, what our eldest child needs in this case,
because the first thing we have to take into account is based on this which
we have just explained that jealousy occurs naturally, that is, it is logical
to give. We cannot avoid them, that is, jealousy is natural and
logical and they appear as we have said others, on the occasion when I
feel that a new person is, for example, as you said, the
birth of a new child, because it supposes I will spend more time with
the new child, because he is a baby. I need to take care
of it. If I have to give her mom, they spend a lot
of time with mom. Dad will also have to hold him for a long
time, because he doesn' t walk all these things. If I want
to develop a good orth, I stick with my new born child. If
I want to develop a good attachment, it means that I will have to
be, take it, embrace it, be with it, attend to its
needs. And the needs of when we are babies are greater in terms of
physical contact and being on top of them than when children are older, so
that our child, it is inevitable that you think or are. When this
little thing wasn' t around, my parents were after me and now they
' re not that much for me anymore. Not that they' re not
here, but that they' re not so much for me. Or you
see children who are more extremist think they no longer attend to me, they
are no longer with me. I remember then that' s natural for them
to appear and it' s logical for that feeling to appear, knowing that
the most normal thing is for the feeling to appear. We can do a
number of things. The best way to deal with these jealousy, these feelings
and, therefore, overcome them, that is, to disconnect them without major
complications, is to verbalize it, that is, those fears or those incorrect
assumptions. They won' t listen to me anymore, they' ve replaced
me with moms, my little brother, because they' re with him longer.
All that we should do as parents, knowing what is to come and
that it may be that those thoughts are there and that if we see small
behaviors that can indicate those thoughts, we should verbalize them, take them to
the area of verbalizing or expressing ourselves, bring them to light and we should
be able to tell our son, we should be able to sit down,
even if he has two three years with our son, he says what is
wrong with you, what you feel. So, what do you think the
dad goes more to the baby because he' s more with him. What
do you think the lady wants to be with the baby more than with you,
because it gives her a lot of time to suck. Then explain the
reality, explain to him that not that it is not that we love him
more, is that he has a number of needs. Show him photographs that
I show that we' ve already done this to him. What happens is
that now he doesn' t remember it, because it was very doubtful that
we' ve done the same thing with him that he needs, that this
little boy needs, but that doesn' t mean that he' s going
to run out of dad and mom, but that we, like dads and
like nothing else, also feel very good when we play with him, when
we' re with him, just that he needs less to have him than
to take him and, for example, take him in arms all the time,
because he knows how to walk. So, holding him alone by the
hand is enough. We don' t need to carry him in our arms
and that the young child who was born also indicate a day that we no
longer need to carry him in our arms all the time, but that he
may have taken hold of our hand, that is, help him verbalize those
fears and make him understand that it is temporary, that this process is temporary,
that he too has had it, that we are not giving anything to
this baby, that he has not had before. Therefore, that we are
being righteous with him and that spending time with the baby does not indicate that
we love him more, but that he has greater needs. I remember.
Another major axis to work is the direct involvement of the older brother in the
care of the newborn. If when a young child is born we integrate the
older brother into the brother who was already the caregiver of the newborn. We
let him touch it we ask him, to help us when he has to
put tremite, we let him put a little, We let him put one
of the strips of the bath or bring us to the best the colony to
be able to put it or to comb it carefully with the combs of soft
pulsation that there is or that he chooses us ropita that he would like to
put the child. That is to involve him in the care of the newborn,
if he takes viberon, that he can bring the mother one of the
vibrons or bring the water when necessary, or that he sits with us next
to him while we breastfeed him, while he sees how we breastfeed him,
putting a number of conditions. Remember that children always need a series of conditions,
it is a series of limits. So, well, you can stay
here. If you' re going to be quiet and if you' re
not going to touch the baby who' s now focused on eating mom,
she' d love for you to sit next to her. So that'
s a way to involve the older brother in newborn care. By involving him,
it feels that the newborn is not something that removes him and expels him
outside, but that it involves him even more in family life. So,
this will help you to understand that it' s not that we no longer
love him and that we don' t want him around, but all we
want to have him around and that' s why we involve him. I
remember. Another form is strength, strengthening the idea that growing and becoming great
is what we want to happen to the newborn, not just him. I
mean, we don' t want our baby to stay the rest of his
life for the next forty years being a baby. What we want is for
him to grow up and for him to grow we need to do this just
like we did with him, so strengthening that idea that growing is good,
that growing is healthy that developing, healthy that generating and that learning to do
things he and being able to do things right is just a good thing he
comes out and that we expect from him and that we also expect from little
knotty, only that he has done it before and the little one will take
a little longer to do it. Remembering to strengthen that idea will also help
a lot with jealousy and then dedicate a time of attention to the older brother,
a time only exclusive to him, in which we can go out with
him to walk alone. So, sometimes what we have to do is divide
the time. If Dad' s with the baby, Mom' s hanging
out with him, the big brother. If Mom' s with the Baby,
and she' s going to have to go through with the older brother,
the good thing is that we' re doing it in a capriculated way,
that is, one and the other, and not as long as the
dad does, because if we feel like a mother' s quitting all right.
I know that in the case of moms it' s harder, because
if mom' s love will be harder. But to take that time to
walk with him, of course, then, when our children share childhood and
pre- adolescence, what they will need in this case to properly manage the
feelings of jealousy that may appear, for when we are in childhood, especially
second childhood, when we are talking about five or six, seven or eight
years later pre- adolescence, ten, eleven twelve, when we are in
that period that that childhood and pre- adolescence, we need to do something
to make jealousy disappear and there are or seem not to appear. The first
thing is to highlight the strengths and peculiarities of each of my children fairly,
that is, fairly. If I highlight one' s UEN points, I
have to be able to highlight them from the others. That doesn' t
mean or I' m not saying that every time I tell my oldest son
that he' s done something right immediately I have to look in that very
instant for something that my little son has done right. No. We'
re not talking about this. We' re talking that if during the day
I have highlighted a point or two strengths of my eldest son, I also
need to highlight two strengths of my young son. Okay, not at the
same time, but during the day, if I am able to highlight the
strengths. On the peculiarities, the things that differentiate them as something good in
each of them. This will help me with jealousy. This is the first
thing. The second time they fight, for example. For example, if
it' s a game, it' s best to remove the game they
' re fighting for anyway give it for ten minutes after saving it for ten
minutes, we' ll return it. We' ll tell them if they
fight again and we' ll take it back. If that happens a third
time, we warn you in the second time it happens again. They don
' t know or don' t learn to play together. What we'
re gonna do is we' re gonna take that game off for the whole
day or today and we' re gonna give it back to you tomorrow.
This is a way to make them understand that they have to learn how to
play together and do it properly, if not whoever starts and who gets angry
with each other. This will imply if we don' t know how to
solve it that we' re going to take that game away from them and,
therefore, they' re going to lose that chance of playing with it.
We do this because by removing that game we remove part of the conflict
and then they can solve that situation. Now, if we know who started
the lawsuit, that is, we actually see that one has hit the other
or stretched the other' s hair or taken away from a toy and hasn
' t asked for it. Then we' ll have to catch that brother,
whether he' s the oldest or the little one, take him away
and talk to theirs, that is, clarify to him why he does that,
that that' s wrong, and that we care that he does it
only with his brother. We care that what you' re doing is bad,
not just for your brothers, but for any other child you' re
doing it with and the consequences that that' s going to bring you that
other kids want to play with. If he behaves that way, put him
in the position of ns his brother or another. For example, if the
little brother has taken a toy from the younger brother, well, don'
t misunderstand the other way and the little brother has taken a toy from him
in the older hand. Being able to say it when we take away toys
from you, you like it, it makes you feel good or it makes
you feel bad you feel angry. That' s what you' re doing
with your brother. Then, after I' ve finished him off, put
some conditions on him. If you repeat this again, you' ll be
there for a while Without playing with your brother, the children, the jealousy,
it doesn' t make the brothers among them, they don' t
want to play together. Jealousy, what they indicate is a problem with parents.
My brother takes my parents away from me, but not a problem with
being together. That happens many times in other people’ s homes where brothers
play together perfectly. Well, the school plays perfectly by the time they get
home, jealousy shows up. This shows that the problem is not in the
relationship between the two, but in how we relate to the older brother or
to the younger brother. Another way is, when one hits the other,
we' ll have to pull them apart, ask them what happened separately and
ask the one who hit, either to r to n one or they'
ve stuck two, separate them for at least fifteen minutes and not allow them
to play and if that happens again, you won' t let them play
together that afternoon and let them understand what that means and put a number of
rules at home. Then, normally, when there is jealousy between the brothers.
The best ways to put standards that are called normace between brothers, and
it is in the fridge of home, in the dining room, somewhere where
you see setting between three and five norms no more than are in hand.
For example, we can' t stick together we' ll always talk without
yelling at TV one. First you choose one program and then you choose the
other program a set of small basic rules, three, I say three between
trainta and five that will help that if you buy those rules, there will
be pariety, there will be justice between one brother and the other. And
then, something that is very funny and that can work very well, especially
when children are younger, is to generate what we call our collage or the
collage of brothers. It' s about taking a session of pictures at home,
fun with two outra camera or even with your mobile phone, making a
series of pictures where they have to always be together, doing nonsense, already
can be doing nonsense where it' s a hug playing with something, but
they always have to appear in the photo together. We will choose between ten
and twenty photos and of the ten twenty photos we will take them to print
or print them at home and make a collage that is called we will always
be brothers in that college What we seek is that the brothers realize that it
is better to be together and we have a better time together than separated or
angry. That also helps jealousy and, therefore, and as the last and
most important point, is to eliminate favoritism. We cannot give more privileges to
an older brother because he is the elder brother, because he is the first
- born, nor can we give him more privilege than a small one because
of the simple fact of being small or the simple fact of being a child.
Sometimes because of the simple fact of being a child. We' ve
already allowed the girl to take away the toys from the older brother from the
sea, but we don' t let the older hand be angry because it
' s older. That' s one way to show favoritism and it'
s wrong. We need to teach our little daughter that she can' t
take any toy from her hand, neither our son' s nor other children
' s. For example, if our little three- year- old daughter
did this in the park we would penalize those circumstances. Therefore, if our
eldest son does, we must also penalize him. And conversely, if our
older brother beats or pushes a child into the yard, even if he was
his age or a younger one, we would penalise him, because we should
still do it if he does it with his younger brother. So remember to
avoid favoritism. We can' t treat one better or give more privileges to
one than another or penalise another less even if he does the same things.
We must be in these just and equal and thus pass the first and second
childhood and pre- adolescence in a more balanced way and with less feelings of
jealousy. Well, I think all we have left is during adolescence and youth.
Jealousy seems to go unnoticed, but how do we definitely help our children
in these two stages already? If they continue to live without jealousy, if
they keep asking for jealousy in this case, if they continue to live jealousy
in adolescence and youth, it will be a little more complicated. It'
s true that they go unnoticed. It' s a reality. It costs
more to see jealousy in youth or adolescence. If they stay, no,
because we already know, but it' s harder to see them. One
of the things I love, as we always speak, the word of God.
He has much wisdom what Jesus of Nazareth said. He' s got
a lot of them. He lives a magnificent skillful, intelligent teacher with cunning
in teaching things with pedagogy. When it comes to teaching them, then I
' d like to take one of the words I explain to you to convey
this, which is what you said. P that of the prodigal son.
The prodigal son speaks of two to young people, almost adults, not to
say adults, but at least two young people, and explains how with great
clarity the main reason why in adolescence and youth these jealousies originate or are maintained.
The first thing that happens is that it depends on the personality of our
son, our daughter. We will have developed a kind of way to educate
him and, therefore, to relate to him. They to these personality traits
and this way of educating him makes that if our child, for example,
is introverted and therefore, the general pronorm is more reflexive. When you ask
us for something, you will do it with arguments, not impulsively and,
moreover, as a general rule, you will also have to listen to them
when we talk to him about what will provoke this personality that provokes, that
will make us less punishing with him, that we tend to penalize at least
because he explains things to us, they argue to us and he is willing
to listen to us. Therefore, in our relationship with our introverted and reflective
child, there will be fewer circumstances of him angry and, therefore, less
feeling of discomfort. But when our other son or our leaf there or our
other daughter are more impulsive and extroverted than our son, older, they make
them less reflective, so they will ask for things in a less reasoned,
more impulsive way. Therefore, we will think of them or tend to think
of our son or our extroverted and impulsive daughter, who is irresponsible. It
scares us and how it scares us. We will finish it more and sometimes
we will be even less suitable in penalties. We will tend to be more
punishing and more limiting, that is, our impulsive and extroverted son. We
' ll have to say no more times. This generates more situations than conflict
and, therefore, more feeling of discomfort with our son and daughter so that
the teenager can interpret some of these facts. You can interpret that we feel
better with our son, older than with him, and therefore that we prefer
our thoughtful and introverted older brother, who gives less problems than me, who
love me less, because I give more problems. This is what provokes jealousy,
a sense of injustice, and we should be able to explain to our
child that this is not the case, but that the only thing that causes
us to but to further improve their way of working or to limit it.
They are a series of fears that we anticipate and their way of asking for
things because they indicate irresponsibility or why they indicate irresponsibility, or why they ask
us for those things and what makes us think. But we need to verbalize
that the problem is not that we don' t love him. We love
him exactly the same, but there are things that must be penalized and they
are both for one and the other. Have one do it more or less.
It doesn' t mean that that' s not bad. Another focus
of conflict is that there are people with a more determined tendency than others,
as a feature of personality and for their experience, there are people who have
to tend to care more about pleasing others. And that makes us have more
teenagers or young people working at home. In a society where running is the
general tonic, sometimes what happens is that we don' t realize or repair
that our oldest son is working at one hundred percent and that our son honors
me is working at twenty- five percent, because he doesn' t need
to please so much because he' s not so hard on this that he
generates in our older brother, because it' s a feeling of injustice.
Of course, what happens is that the older brother feels that he is making
more effort than the younger one and that the younger one receives the same thing
as the older one. Therefore, in the sense of injustice, the account
of the prodigal son very clearly shows these feelings, this concrete feeling of the
son Gayor and the good of the parables that the Great Teacher Jesus told,
which said is that they always implied an answer, always took a solution.
Not that one not just given a parabola without giving a solution. And if
you think so, let' s read the last three, that is,
the passage to the final part of this story, this story, to understand
that the son who was at home was living. Turns out the prodigal son
consists of a son who wants to have his inheritance look at his dad tell
him dad give me the inheritance that I love her and leave home because I
don' t want to be home anymore. I want to do what he
wants without having a dad tell him what to do. She wants to go
away and spends everything on her inheritance, but she doesn' t spend it
comparing the house, pushing forward with the families who race her with the worst,
with words, with prostitution, with something, with drugs, etcetera,
etcetera. Sure, when this son comes home because he sees himself in absolute
misery without having to eat. When you see yourself in absolute misery, you
say at my father' s house, even the servants, even the people
who help in the house are better treated than I am. I' ve
lived better than I have. I' ll go back to my father'
s house and tell him to please treat me not like a son, because
I' ve been the worst. Since I am not worthy to be his
son, but unless he hires me, he hires me as someone who cleans
the house or takes care of the animals and comes back. What' s
going on? That when the dad comes back, he' s dad before
anything else, he' s dad more than just, he' s dad,
he loves the kid, and when I have to come back he finally
comes home. Now he has learned his lesson and throws a party and gives
him everything that happens. And that' s where we started reading. The
eldest son was in the field, says the parable and when he came and
came near the house, heard the music and dances and called one of the
servants, asked him that he was that and he told him your brother has
come home, has returned and your father has killed a fat calf and for
having received them, for having received them safe and sound, then he was
angry and did not want to enter. The eldest son suddenly got angry and
did not want to go in and went out to find them his father and
begged the pope to enter the eldest son at the party but the eldest son
answered. Here are so many years I have served you, never disobeying you
and you don' t change it, given not even any kid to be
able to enjoy or party with my friends. But when he came to your
son, this one who has consumed all your lives, everything that has put
him on, he has consumed it, he eats the blowout and without taking
into account goes and you throw him a party and then the dad gives him
the solution to say son, you have always been with me and all my
things have always been yours. That' s the solution And that' s
the solution that the great teacher has given when we see that a child is
very hard- working and that sometimes he complains or has feelings of jealousy and
has jealous behaviors rather than recriminating him, rather than telling him man, you
' re the one who does things. Well, now you' re having
these feelings. Don' t be a kid or don' t be a
kid before you do this. What you have to do is sit next to
him and tell him everything about me has always been yours. And I never
say no to you, because I know you' re responsible. I never
tell you what you have to do because you' re already going to do
it. And this comforts my heart and makes me feel like you' re
a good son and I love you for it. But that doesn' t
mean I don' t love your little brother too, even if I do
things wrong. I don' t accept what I do, what he does
for that I penalize and punish him, but that doesn' t mean he
doesn' t love him. I love him exactly the same. And the
day you stop doing things right and the day you, for some reason,
don' t want to do something right or don' t want to behave
yourself. I will continue to love you that reflection, which is the one
made by the son, the father, the eldest son, in this parable
of the prodigal son. This reflection is the reflection that we should give to
our young adults with Dad. Of course it' s telling him I remember.
It' s true he' s doing better, but that doesn'
t make me love him any more or less, I mean, not exactly
the same. And the day you can' t do that job, I
' ll still love you the same way. That will bring tranquility and pass
into the heart of the eldest son who is often playing that role because he
believes that if he does not, he will not have the love of his
parents. Sure, well, the truth is this is a lot. He
has given of his own, but he gives much of himself colus between brothers
and common how to deal with these situations and between brothers and sisters at different
ages, as I have addressed and I believe it has become more than clear,
well, dear ayudit Thank you very much for the abundant and clear and
very descriptive explanation of a subject as delicate as this. Thank you for being
there, for letting me lift you up in good weeks more. Thank you
very much, thank you always. Good hug, the man of life I
love with us the or, the name, the leave Jesus. It is
only possible for you to rescue the name I said Jesus n is amazing and
bring truth, the God, the God of rustling hears that it is that
worships him inspires you I give above all man riyas pate. Jesus that there
is no other name give man Jesus c are lord or c for give me
the square to Christ Jesus in we leap from a high ra in your man,
man of Jesus. He loves to be one of the dark ones and
the bottle of Jesus. Tunceola see me because as of God, I move
to death in the other one you do not do to sing for li sora
lenas so big that of lion man, the book and the ready to go
to men is subject to this not about or rhymes. So, I think
this came another given the men who are Lord or go like this. The
ra tiem you eat laugh, not ours very well or even the zero I
understand what egg, or or or or or or especially on the sras your
breath more pestilent. Thank you those lungs, blacker, thank you not your
twenty days less life, thank you the most damaged our smokers, thank you
the ruteras that surround you most affected, thank you, thank you for not
smoking Ministry of Health and I consume the train of life, an exciting journey
along the routes of the heart, an unforgettable trip at the pace of trem
Lords and gentlemen, we have Dr Luis Carballosa, in direct line, with
the train of life Genesis, the Book of Origins, a book with which
very few have dared. Well, that' s where we have it in
direct line gerballo, that is, when we talk about genesis. When we
talk about genesis, some speak of Genesis with a somewhat stupefied mind, because
it is a book that simplifies the basic stories of the beginnings of mankind.
No, but the first eleven chapters of genesis are one of the most interesting
to understand why of all things. But some have questioned them. They have
said that they are somewhat allegorical chapters and bibliographic simulations that what we can say
first of all. But when someone does not want to believe, he always
appeals to that kind of language and to that kind of rule. There is
nothing allegorical about the genesis, and honestly, without Genesis nothing could be understood
about the Bible, the foundation When you build a building, you have to
lay solid foundations. If you cannot build it on top, genesis is the
foundation of the rest of the Bible. Everything the rest of the Bible says
is credible and established, it is based on the book of Genesis. Genesis
begins with an emphatic, majestic, glorious way, saying in the beginning God
created the heavens and the earth. It never questions the existence of God.
And there' s the base. July, because if one believes in a
living, true omnipotent God, a God of purpose, a sovereign God has
no problem in understanding that the whole Universe is the product of his creative power.
He spoke the creation, how interesting God spoke and what he said was
done. Right. That' s right and not in a long process of
time. God spoke and instantly all things were done. In the Book of
Genesis in our Bible it says that God said be the light. That'
s a little soft way to put it. What the original text says is
that God gave a command. God told him I know as if someone tells
you Julio stand up or Julio comes out this door. Well, that'
s how God did it. God gave an order, God said light.
C and light was not through an evolutionary process of millions of years. Didn
' t God instantly do all things? Instantally what interesting carballosa? The story
of Good since Genesis, especially of the first three chapters, the story of
the creation of all things in a simunae way, with an explanation as usual,
Semitic, simplified, not, but very direct, very concrete. And
after the beginning of the first state of the human being and before the creation
of all things, and then the immediate fall of man by his disobedience,
of man and woman, understand his disobedience to God and from there history begins
to happen truth. Yes, God created man in holiness and righteousness, but
that holiness and justice had to be tested. God tested man, and God
did so tremendously. God placed in the center of the garden, God placed
the tree of life that represents the obe, represents communion, communion with God.
And in the very place of the center of the garden, God set
up a tree called knowledge, good, and evil. And that speaks of
obedience. Man, the human being, has a responsibility to obey God and
that is precisely what he did not do. God created man to worship and
obey him and to make man a kind of viceroy of God on earth.
And man needs to depend on God, and that is precisely what man did.
Man let himself be guided in this case says the scripture Eve was deceived,
but Adam deliberately disobeyed God. And that' s the thing. Adam,
the man, the responsible one that God had deliberately put into the orchard,
not by deception, but by an exercise of his will. That'
s called free will. Adam made use of his free will and what he
did was disobey God. Flee from God. He wanted to escape God,
and God had to go after him and ask Adam where Caramba is. From
there comes the moral catastrophe of man, man and carballous woman. Some ignore
that the history of patriarchs, in tents of patriarchs, including Abraham Moses and
the patriarchs of the twelve tribes, the patriarchs of faith from the origins of
the principles of biblical history are part of the real history of mankind. Or
it' s a fictional story, as some think. No. That'
s not part of the story. Everything that the Bible says July is real.
There is no mythology in the Bible. The orchard was a concrete place
where man had plenty of everything. Adam was the first man God created And
not only does the Book of Genesis say so, the rest of the Bible
says. The rest of the Bible says that the first man was Adam.
He was made a living being by God, a soul, a being,
a living person, and says the scripture that through that man' s disobedience
sin entered and through sin death, and death passed to all men. For
all sinned in Adam. God created all mankind tacitly implicitly in Adam were you
and I. And when Adam sinned you and I sinned. When Adam disobeyed
you and I disobeyed. The whole human race disobeyed and fell into Adam.
And Adam' s sin is our sin. We are sinners because we sin
when Adam sinned I sinned. When Adam disobeyed God, I disobeyed God.
That is what the Bible teaches and the characters in the Bible are not fictitious.
All these names are noted in history from the beginning, the children of
Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, those who follow him in chapter five,
All that list that appears there and then the humanity that was corrupted in
chapters six and seven of Genesis, by which God had to judge mankind by
means of a universal flood, not a small flood, but a flood that
covered all the earth. That is what the Book of Genesis tells us.
And that' s what it is. Therefore, as you rightly said,
dear Julius, the Book of Genesis is the book of principles, the beginning
of creation, the beginning of the universe, the beginning of history, the
beginning of time, the beginning of man, the beginning of human sin and
also the beginning of the plan of salvation, because with the fall of man,
God also presents a plan of salvation. And that plan of salvation is
by faith is by the grace of God so that the human being puts his
faith in the one living and true God so it is carballous. One of
the most exciting, most emotional stories of the Book of Genesis is the story
of Joseph and especially the story of Joseph' s reunion with his brothers and
Joseph' s pre- eminence in Egypt. That' s right. That
gives us to understand God’ s tremendous providence. Joseph' s brothers,
who were not good men, were evil boys, envied their own brother and
sold him to merchants to get rid of him because they envied him. But
they did not know that all this was the product of God' s plan,
it was the product of God' s hand. Or Egypt was sold
by merchants. He was sold to potiphar who was an employee, he was
an officer of the Pharaoh of Egypt and as soon as Joseph was there in
the house of fotitifr that man began to prosper the presence of Joseph caused him
to potentiate, to prosper tremendously. But satan Julius is always present the wife
of pupotiphar. He wanted to conquer Joseph and Joseph refused or went to jail.
And again there is the providence of God, For being in prison,
Joseph becomes as the chief almost of the prison, by his character, by
his goodness, by his honesty. And there two men go to prison,
the king' s cupbearer and the king' s baker. And these men
dream dreams that Joseph interprets, and the cupbearer is set free, the baker
is executed, but the cupbearer forgets Joseph until one day Pharaoh also had dreams,
the famous dreams of the lean cows and fat cows and of the ears
in just and full ears, and Joseph was taken out of prison. They
interpret Pharaoh' s dreams and that' s why Joshua is going to become
the second in command. He was only above him Pharaoh, by character,
by wisdom, by what God had done in Joseph' s life. And
then the Bible account says that there was a famine in all the land and
the people had to go to buy food there in Egypt, which was where
there was food, because Joseph had wisely planned it. Joseph' s brothers
were already dressed and there was a tremendous encounter between Joseph and his brothers.
The brothers thought Joseph was going to take revenge on them, but Joseph told
him not to worry. You worry about what you wanted to do for evil.
God has turned it back for good, so we see God' s
tremendous wisdom there. Or I know it was an instrument of God to save
practically mankind from those times. And all that was July by the sovereign grace
of God and by the sovereign will of God. Or less like that.
That' s right, it' s Carballosa. It is a good book
for lovers of the Bible, since we take it for granted that we read
genesis and read it in all books. But for friends who approach the Bible
timidly occasionally the book of genesis, which can suppose their reading. Well,
look. I' ve been thinking about that a lot. I' m
glad you asked that question. Many times I have been asked in the past,
when someone wants to read the Bible where it should begin. I told
him good that he should begin with the Gospel of John, or with the
Book of Acts or with the Epistle to the Romans. But I don'
t do that anymore. Now I tell people to start reading the Book of
Genesis, because that' s so they can understand the rest of the Bible.
You have to start there by reading about God. What kind of God
is God. He is an almighty wise God, He is a God who
has clans you are, a god of righteousness, he is a god of
love, he is a God of mercy, but he is also a God
who hates sin. And that has been demonstrated through all that God does in
the Bible so much mercy. He called Abraham of Ur of the Chaldeans.
When Abraham was an idolater to God he sovereignly called him and saved him and
made tremendous promises to him. Abraham, Abraham had no children, but God
said I will give you a seed. And God gave it to him.
Abraham had no land, and God gave him a land. And God gave
Isaac, and gave Isaac, and gave Jacob, and gave Jacob twelve patriarchs.
And of that, among those twelve patriarchs was Judah and from Judah came
Jesus the Messiah to that who his name is Jesus, for he will save
his people from their sins. And that is why I recommend to everyone who
wants to read the Bible, to begin reading the Book of Genesis, to
know that the Book of Genesis is not myth, that the Book of Genesis
is reality, that it is history, and that there is all the biblical
doctrine, and there is the doctrine of the trinity, the doctrine of God
' s grace, the doctrine of God' s righteousness, of God'
s love, and there is even what God is going to do in the
future. It says there in chapter forty- nine, Jacob said to Judah,
the father of Jesus, the cestro, will not depart from Judah or
the law giver from between his feet, until Shiloh comes and to him will
gather in the people if Jesus is, because Jesus is the one who has
the right to reign. He is the one whom God sent He is the
seed of the woman. He is the God made flesh, he is the
God who came, who died on the cross for our sins, who resurrected
two the dead, who ascended to heaven and who one day will come with
power, glory and majesty to put order in this world. We learn all
that through the Book of Genesis. And not only do I recommend that believers
read the Book of Genesis. Dear Julio, I recommend to the pastors,
the preachers to preach the message of the Book of the Génese. So it
is interesting and a Council more than pertinent for this time to return to the
origins of everything in the Book of Genesis, for this one I want to
thank You Julius and I thank God for you dear brother, for your Ministry,
for your team, for the way God uses you I give you.
Thank you. Thank God for your friendship. Thank you also for your love
for God' s people. Thank you for your life, Dear, July,
Thank you, Dr Caraballosa. All right, Julio, a big hug,
a hug all the time, Dr Carballosa, I love you so much.
Thank you, Gras, dear. You will already see signs in the
discography, indicating that after birth you may have problems of integration or difficulties in
exercising professions of responsibility and even situations in which your physical integrity or your life
is endangered. But what' s it about, Doctor, you' re
gonna have a little girl. Discrimination against women in society here goes into abuse
and injustice and ill- treatment. Don' t let them get into action
with Amnesty International Traveling on the train of life hello. Very welcome to Digital
Protestant. One more day, we are in this interview space, in which
we are receiving different people to discuss also topics. I always believe of interest
and in this case we come to talk about an important anniversary and also an
event, but also a movement is called the Lausanne Movement. Surely many of
our readers can know it, because really in Protestant Digital we are publishing very
often things that come from the Lausanne Movement or that are related. And this
is because Rea is a movement that is important, that is important to the
evangelicals, and we are going to comment today on aspects of Lausanne with Jau
Mayennas. He is the national coordinator in Spain of the Lausanne Movement, who
we already welcome, already or more thanks for being with us the fegra.
On the contrary, it is a privilege to be in digital Protestant with all
the fantastic things you do every day to bring us up- to- date
information and connect with reality. Thank you, Well, thank you Jauma for
those words. And we are really, as we said, on the threshold
of holding the fourth Lausanne Congress. This will take place in September. It
will be in Seoul and there, then we' ll talk a little bit
about the details, but thousands of people from all over the world will be
gathering there for a week. But really the Lausanne movement is not something that
has just been born is already fifty years old. In fact, this two
thousand twenty- four is the 50th anniversary of that congress that was held in
Switzerland. And that is why he is the man of Lausanne and since then
he is a movement that has served as a catalyst for mission momentum throughout the
world. So the first thing would be to tell us a little bit how
it started, with what objectives this Lausanne movement. A little before seventy-
four, about sixty- six sixty- eight, Billie Gran, the great
evangelist of the twentieth century, begins to think about the possibility of bringing together
a smaller previous conference of evangelization here in Europe, in Berlin, Amsterdam.
Then start gathering people who start thinking about something much bigger. He, who
is a practical evangelist, seeks the support of one of the great theologians,
of the great men of reference of the twentieth century, who was John Stott,
and the two together will prepare that Congress of World Evangelization of MNS one
thousand nine hundred and seventy- four. This gives the two souls of the
osana. The bear has a practical evangelistic soul. All those who are in
the field, in evangelization, in the mission directly plus all those who carry
out the reflection on evangelization and mission, and they come together and begin to
think of something more polycentric, something that today, this word they did not
know. It is a word of our time, but they do begin to
think not only of the United States, not only of Europe, but of
where else the mission is being given and they begin to see all the emerging
force that Latin America had at the time. They bring people like Renepadillas,
Master, Escobar and others from Latin America, but also people from Africa,
people from Asia and they hold a world conference on evangelization and begin to think
about how to do it, what is the methodology of the Congress that will
inspire the saint to this day and they, instead of saying that whoever wants
to be pointed out, what they do is of no. We' re
not going to select who we want to come. The procedure is the other
way around who should be here. And they begin to make invitations and from
these invitations arises the concept of people of influence, which continues today modulating what
is Lausanne, not gathering ideas and people of influence for the world mission.
And this is what has produced a whole movement around the world of reflection and
action in the mission. It' s not that the Usana does anything,
but that Lausanne is going to say that what it does is to put together,
is to put up a dance floor so that all those who are reflecting
and all those who are doing can have time together to see how to advance
the Kingdom. The progress made in the Lausanne movement is tremendous. From there,
there are a lot of new situations that still reach us today. That
' s how the Hay movement is born? Why is the LAUSSA movement born?
The truth is that it is very interesting to see that beginning and how
it has developed over time. It is clear that the impact has been,
as you said now, very important in aspects such as the concept of broadcasting.
But what could we say that it has meant for the evangelical world to
have this movement in motion during these fifty years. The truth is that it
has been prophetic in that sense and I say so in terms of the growth
of the gospel throughout the world. In seventy- four we will say that
the impact of the evangelicals was still beginning. But today, the evangelical movement
is the fastest growing movement worldwide in all that is the religious sphere. Nothing
has a movement as growing as the evangelical world and began with very concrete aspects.
For example, up to a thousand nine hundred and seventy- four,
the Pentecostal movement was a lateral movement, not a movement that was counted within
the evangelical movement. Note that even today, so many millions of Pentecostals are
said to be evangelical in world religious statistics. But Billy gram and John This
was seen as the Pentecostal movement, as part of the evangelical movement, to
invite them for the first time to a great world congress so that they would
be present. And today we are one body. This is what is the
wish of the Lord of Unity of the Church, but also the desire to
work together, because we preach the same Gospel. We' re no different.
Pentecostals are evangelicals. This vision is new. This vision we give for
center day, of course, that Pentecostals. But it was not so until
the year seventy- four. The concept, as you said, the concept
of emission, is a new concept for us, until time had come,
after the Second World War, a great disappointment, after the First and Second
World Wars, a great disappointment within the Christian movement, which had produced a
let- off of everything that is part of the mission, of the demonstration
of the Gospel. Not only and then we begin to talk a lot about
preaching the Gospel of proclamation. But they reach those theologians of the South,
those theologians of Latin America, who begin to introduce us into a new concept
that is an integral mission, that the mission is not only proclamation, but
that proclamation comes together. In the Gospel of Jesus Christ, with demonstration.
Jesus not only preaches, Jesus not only teaches, but Jesus teaches and heals
on some occasions, only healthy on some occasions only proclaims and on many occasions
heals and proclaims at once. And that makes us see that our Gospel is
much more. What an impact it has had on us today, a huge
impact has had in the year nineteen hundred and seventy- four. The churches
did not want to hear about what was social. The churches had completely departed
from something that Christianity had had within them over the centuries and the churches had
ceased to have that social impact. But from then on, which church today
does not have a social branch, which Church does not have a social work.
How many evangelical NGOs have been created for the demonstration of the gospel.
This is huge. In the evangelists we are investing in today an enormous amount
of our resources, because we think not that this is a collateral thing,
but that this is also the gospel. In Spain, the social work of
the evangelicals, in the fifth global social work of the Gospels of all two,
the country is the evangelical. Not concepts like ethnic groups, not reached.
This is a sketch that for us today is normal. It' s
common to talk about this. But this is born in the OSAN movement and
we could go on to say concept after concept not of those who have arisen
by putting the right people in the right place to discuss issues between us that
have produced such practical effects as, for example, that from seventy- four
until now, thirty percent of the unachieved ethnic groups have already been reached with
the Clauste Gospel. It is an advance of the brutal Gospel. This is
coming to the dream of the Lord who was that all people had the opportunity
to respond to the Gospel. Of course, 74 are specially set up so
that the great task that remains for us, those unfulfilled ethnic groups, can
be reached by two thousand and fifty. Not then is it a lot of
things, as you have told us now, not and the obviously visible impacts,
especially when you see them with the perspective of time, you notice them
much more, because sometimes, of course, it is not a Congress that
has perhaps an immediate impact, but it goes, as a little bit,
to the point of what it has to do with the reflection that is then
carried out at the level of denominations, at the level of local churches,
at the regional level. In fact, it is also interesting to see that
the use movement has had this development at the regional level and also at the
country level at the local level. For example, here in Spain. Tell
us a little bit? How it has also developed at these levels since always,
what is the movement of beautiful global obsanation, a movement that has joined
forces on a global level. But it is also having, and this is
more recent, a regional plasmaation. The Lausanne movement is divided into twelve regions.
He has a vision, but he also has a vision of strategic fields,
that is, of what subjects he has to discuss. And especially after
two thousand and ten in Cape Town, what is called within the Edwards Sonnaission
movement, i e, the index themes, themes of which he is talking
about thirty- five themes that have to be touched upon to reach the last
of the Earth thirty- five themes that had not been seen so far,
but now he sees a great strategy and that is also another way of structuring
the use. Therefore, regions are subject and there is also another that is
by age. Then there is a very intergenerational movement, a movement in which
from the oldest to the youngest work together to get the Gospel to come.
Therefore, it does not have a single form of organization, which could be
many organizations have one or one regional or other one. Think of other ways,
but here you have touched those three ways of organizing, that work together
to achieve the goal. On top of that, there are also national movements.
Not always. That' s been worked around the world. We have
had participants in the Osana since a thousand nine hundred and seventy- four.
In Spain there were participants such as José Grau, for example, who was
one of those who also impacted and were impacted by the Usana one thousand nine
hundred thirty- four. There have been participants. José María Martínez was in
the eighty- nine. In other words, Spain has always had participants,
but especially since the year two thousand eight we have for the first time a
national committee. They had national committees in Europe virtually only in the Nordic countries,
Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark. National committees were strong there,
but many other countries have not had so far. Spain has had since two
thousand eight a movement that has been working to deploy, to think about what
these thirty- five themes of the Osana movement mean, those that proposed to
us the commitment of Ciudad del Cabo, what they meant to us we have
worked on documents such as proposing for small groups each of the thirty- five
themes, so that they could be analyzed in thirty- five different meetings.
We published it in a book, but we also published in digital Protestant an
adaptation thirty- five Spanish authors saying what this topic meant in our country,
what it would be to deploy that topic in our country. We' ve
been doing a study all these years. For example, we have been the
first country in the world to have created a tool to measure the missionaryity of
a country, and we have made a measure of the missionaryity of Spain.
We have produced a document with conclusions of what should be taken into account to
increase the degree of missionary consciousness of the Church, interviewing more than four hundred
about five hundred leaders. Specifically, we were launching them on evangelical leaders and
then analyzing the data, we had an analysis of what is quantitative, of
what is qualitative and then doing a work on the conclusions that came out and
making proposals for the Church in Spain. Lately, the movement in Spain has
been focusing a lot on something that, everywhere we were seeing as the weakest
point, the weakest point of the Church in Spain. Everyone was telling us
the same thing. What is failing in Spain is that the Church is failing
to make disciples intentionally relationally. We are making disciples alone mentally. We inform
them, we explain things to them, but we are not going to a
discipleship of our entire lives. And this is what has been devoted much to
the Lausanne movement in Spain, which is directed above all to three hundred influencers,
which these three hundred influencers then exert that influence, make known even without
quoting the uana. Of course, it is not necessary to quote Lausanne.
The important thing about one sentence we have in Lausanne is that our fruits grow
on the trees of others. Therefore, to inspire that today discipleship is a
subject that is much more in the day to day of the churches of Spain.
And I think that in part we are not the only ones who have
collaborated in this, but in part we are responsible for the fact that today
there is more talk of discipleship in the Spanish Church and many other bad things
because it is our influencers who really bring the issues to the discussion table.
Yes, it is very interesting this work that has been done in recent years,
as you said well, since two thousand eight and above all starting out
I think that the two thousand ten that Congress of Cape Town there is an
impulse, I think that it is natural of what is the Lausanne movement in
Spain and also good to remember that practically every year in November a face-
to- face meeting has also been held in which, since, a hundred
evangelical leaders have participated that have been passing through there, surely many more,
but good hundred together more or less for just and dealing with these issues,
discussing them and maintaining the interest that has maintained the interest not in Lausanne,
but in what Lausanne proposes, that this is what is interesting about this movement.
And so we arrived at this year' s Congress, well this year
of this decade. We could say fourth World Congress to be held in Seoul,
as we said before, it will be in September of the 22nd,
from the 20th to the 28th of September twenty- two to the 28th of
September, more or less, the dates are out there about a week or
so on which they will gather, because about five zero people, in person,
I think there are thousands who will also join online. What is the
expectation that you personally have before this new Congress and what is being prepared.
And the truth is that expectations are high, because Congress has prepared itself a
lot many times. It is not only what is produced there, but the
previous and subsequent impact for years and within the interest groups and within the regions,
above all, but there has also been an intergenerational encounter. Then it
has been asked what are the topics on which we should be looking to complete
the world mission, to reach all the technical groups not reached to reach every
person with the gospel from here to two thousand and fifty. This was the
question. Even we, in Spain, during the pandemic, had an important
consultation, great also with many evangelical leaders online, of course, because we
were in pandemic, but listening and we also sent our conclusions as a national
movement, saying we have to stay to five questions, we have to be
attentive to these concrete things. All this has led to ten issues, which
is what you have answered, which is called the state of the great Commission.
The state of the great Commission has gathered to see these questions coming out
of the interest groups, coming out of the regions, coming out of the
generations and then, responding to all this, making statistics of what the situation
is in each continent, of what the forecast of how that situation will be.
A total of ten questions have been answered. There are 150 world leaders
thinkers who have been working on this. This is going to be the status
of the Great Commission. We' ll have it in Spanish in July.
It will be published on the website of the Osana. We will try to
publish it also the web of the use Spain, so that everyone who enters
in Lausanne Spain rg as it can have the state of the Great Commission.
There and from those questions that have been asked, since twenty- five gaps
have been seen, twenty- five gaps are worth covering so that the gospel
can reach the whole world with an opportunity to listen and respond to the Gospel.
And this is what we' re going to talk about. According to
what is going to be done above all, it is to open spaces for
collaboration. There is a whole space in the afternoon for collaboration sessions, in
which each of those twenty- five gaps, I say some. For example,
the ageing of the world population, the creation of a new middle class,
for example, today the middle class practically does not exist in Africa,
but from here, two thousand and fifty are going to emerge a great middle
class in Africa. For example, of course how this will affect the world
evangelization, the next generation, the development and extension of Islam, secularism,
what will involve Ministry in the digital age, what does it mean to be
human in the era of artificial intelligence, what is the polycentric mission, how
can we live in a way, how our spirituality will affect missions, what
does Community mean in the middle of the 21st century, no, what is
our influence in society on issues such as religious politics, radical politics, the
care of creation, the culture of the most vulnerable. Anyway, a lot
of topics, these twenty- five topics that are going to be realized each
from seven different perspectives, and then what you' re going to look for
is to see what the current situation is. Analyze, make one imagine how
this situation could be? Imagine how we could work together, how we could
communicate what we could do working together and finally how to commit to that work?
But it is that Congress does not end with Congress, that is,
when the 28th day we put the closure to Congress, there is a whole
team that enters from that moment, that is to follow up on those commitments
that have been made, their collaborative commitments, because so far we have been
working each one much on its side, you know this denomination, here,
that other, there that country, now there, this other country. But
if we imagine working as a single body, and if we imagine that what
Jesus told us about Unity, we take it seriously and work together what an
African can do with a person from Australia, with a European person, and
yes, together we commit ourselves to contribute the best of each one of us.
To achieve that is to close those twenty- five gaps that we have
identified, as that is a very important part of what is going to occur.
We' re not going there just to listen to lectures. This is
the minor part, the big part, the important part is how we commit
to collaborate together and follow- up, because everything is well prepared to follow
up on each of those commitments. Only from Cape Town came out more than
three zero commitments to work together, which has been very important in advancing.
But from here the preparation he' s doing is a lot more inter with
what thousands of commitments can come out to reach those thousands of ethnicities you didn
' t reach. Or we' re not talking about faraway girls anymore.
It' s just that those signs aren' t enough between us. They
' re in Madrid, they' re in Barcelona, they' re in
Valencia, because they' re here and they' re not outside, they
' re European. Some unreached dets. So, there' s a lot
of things to do there. Yeah, I really do. Well, as
we' ve seen, there' s not much that opens up from what
that event will be as well. But of course we will be talking about
Lausanne in the coming months, surely years, also because we will see,
there is also no expectation of what one can really imagine it can be but
there is also another of what the Lord will do, that will surprise us.
And, without a doubt, we are also looking forward to what may
happen from Spain. We know that there is a participation of one of the
people who are going to the Seoul Congress as well. I think about thirty
people, sort of. Yes, we will be talking about the next few
weeks too, bringing more interviews here about the Lausanne Congress, about the Lausanne
movement, because, as we have seen, this is something very interesting to
reflect on, to also realize what is happening worldwide. Many times we are
perhaps very involved in our local church or in our perspective of what day-
to- day is, and all right, but how beautiful it is to
be able to open up to what God is doing worldwide. And Lausanne,
of course, is a wonderful window to be able to look at what is
happening and how God is carrying out this mission of transforming the world and bringing
more people into his Church. So he calls thank you so much for joining
us today and we' ll stay in touch. We continue in confecto,
Fidespierbendiga, thanks to all those who have accompanied us today in this interview.
You know that we will follow the digital Protestant with the information also specifically about
Lausanne. We will be performing as we said special interviews, reports and a
very intentional and very specific coverage of this Congress to be held is seul in
the coming months. So stay tuned and follow with us that Lord Bless you.
If you want to visit our website, the WWW. Point the train
of life, the train of just life is o s u cho po the
evangelical churches a place of peace and friendship. You can freely attend the nearest
evangelical church in your neighborhood or your population. You' ll be very welcome.