In a familiar tale, a Florida high school has concerned parents reporting that a
math teacher's sugary attempt at divine indoctrination has been occurring. The teacher, armed
with Christmas pamphlets, leads students on a divine journey involving candy canes, questionable
biblical interpretations, and downright nonsense. The Freedom from Religion Foundations Chris Line steps
in reminding the school district of the establishment clause and the fine line between education
and indoctrination with a dash of humor. Co President of the Freedom From Religion
Foundation, Laurie glor quips public schools it is to educate, not to discriminate
or indoctrinate into religion. It's up to parents, not math teachers, to
decide religious upbringings. Unwrapping the absurdity, FFRF calls for divine discipline in the
classroom. This story is from the Freedom From Religion Foundation on the fourth of
January twenty twenty four, and unfortunately there isn't a whole this story, but
as always, kudos to the FFRL for being on the forefront of the battle
against religion in our public schools. It's an important job and I'm glad they're
due there they are, they're doing it toy boat, toy boat, toy
boat. It really bothers me that in today's day and age, that there's
still people, still still people that have the idea that this ardent apparent preaching
is going to be legal somehow in a public school. I have no idea
how they think it's going to be they're going to be able to get away
with it. And it makes me wonder where these people have been living at
and so that they still have these nineteenth century ideals instead of living in the
modern day. They have to know what they're doing is wrong legally, So
why do they keep doing it? What is it that keeps driving them to
keep going? Do they think their God is going to protect them from prosecution?
I said prosecution, not persecution. Their God hasn't been able to protect
them from the constitution yet, so why would they think this is going to
be any different? Why, in fact, why is the constitution stronger than
their God? What's going on there? Why do they think? What's the
mindset of these people that they have no idea that they're going to get stomped
by this? I just don't get it. Jimmy, do you want to
add something to that. I think they think that repetition is key here,
and they're probably just trying to nudge their little plan along to maybe kind of,
I don't know, pull up the big fish one day and get away
with it. This is not really something we are unfamiliar with, right we
see. I guess I'm going to use the word attacks on children or victimization
on children when it comes to this kind of behavior. People in positions of
authority that are able to corner the children and then children, you know,
not knowing how to respond to that authority or thinking they might face some kind
of reprisal. So the people in this position have kind of identified their target
and they just kind of push along, push along to see how far they
can get. Now, as far as the established to make clause going,
it should certainly apply here, considering that public funds are being used to run
this operation. Theoretically it's a little bit of a stretch, but public school,
public servant, public teacher, the kids in that environment should be free
from this kind of prosselyization. But what I found interesting is that the Florida
Constitution and its Free Exercise Law states that religious freedom shall not justify practices inconsistent
with public morals, peace or safety. And I have to ask myself,
what are the public morals in this area? I mean, this is Florida.
Now, typically in this area it's a little bit of a I guess
left leaning area where there isn't so much I would I would say the traditional
or the the wave of Christian nationalism picking up, but it's still Florida.
It's heavy with you know, Latin roots, which is typically very strongly Christian
and can be conservative in that respect. So you know, maybe these people
think that well, their own are going to look out for them, a
good old boy system, if you will, so Infidel, what do you
have to say about that, Kelly, when you were talking, I have
to say that I think I know exactly what they were thinking. They're they're
they're in Florida, and that is a hotbed of backwards thinking. And it
starts literally from the top. You know. Admittedly, if if if I
were a parent of a student in that classroom, I want their heads on
the proverbial John the Baptist platter. But the reality is this is just a
symptom of the blue whale in the room Florida and a very backwards mentality.
I mean, they've they claim to reject material that indoctrinate students, but you
know they've they've made one of their required courses now is a financial responsibility class.
And then that's fine, but it's this guy, Dave Ramsey is the
is the author of the textbook, and he even includes proverbs and side the
textbook they're using in the classroom to promote this type of thinking. And of
course it teaches that you know, debts for losers and and things like that.
That just really a whole nother story. I mean, Florida's even welcome
pragger you into their classrooms. So I mean what we're seeing is and I
believe Phoebe may have mentioned this on a previous episode, about how we just
kind of whittle away at a law and before too long, we're building precedent
up on something that never was what the original intent was. And I think
that's what they're wanting to do, like they've done with other issues like that,
attempted for for decades with abortion, They're wanting to just whittle away at
these protections. They think that over time, if they just you know,
push a little further, each test will continue to allow them to get more
latitude in what they're trying to achieve. So for me seeing Florida, you
know, being the state of education by right wing talking heads Dave Ramsey and
Dennis Prager, you know, they both literally want their dogma taught to everyone's
children. They're in the indoctrination business. So the idea that a mad teacher
would take that and go, hey, let's run with this and let let's
see, you know where this can go. I think also we have a
very friendly Supreme Court right now for all the wrong reasons. And I think
we have people who say, let's see what what what our money got us?
Where's this going to end up? And so I guess the one good
thing is is that, uh you know, I did notice the tired old
story about the origin of the candy cane was included in the pamphlet. You
know, it's a good thing it wasn't a history teacher, because that would
be an even poorer reflection considering the inaccuracy of what they're talking about. But
I just want to go on record and say one thing. If there's ever
a special candy made for me, say an eye and made in my honor.
Make sure it tastes better than a candy cane. Damn you you are
a real true heathen. You are a proper, nonprofit bloody heathen. You
you get you get from me for the rest of this segment. You and
this episode, you get, you know, downgrade at the other two.
They're they're nice people. You are a heathen, and you know we can't
have that kind of nonsense spouted around you know you are you secretly a true
Florida man like this Florida lunatic? Are you secretly a true Florida lunatic?
You men expose You do know that candy current canes come and all flavors,
now right, Yeah, this is what I'm saying. You can spear.
You didn't have just mint. You can have a whole range of flavors.
You can have cinnamon, you can have any flavor that you're like now,
I mean, the twenty first century has been good for a lot of things.
It's been good at bud it's been good at debunking you know, Young
Earth creationism, and it's been really good. They're giving us flavored candy canes.
I must enter, Jack Phoebe, you talk about me being a bad
person. Well, I'm not the one who doesn't believe in the one true
Candy Cane. Kelly over here was talking about different flavors, So you want
to talk about heathen heretic you handle your own house over there? This panel,
Who's sin the TV show Murderville? Oh, what a great show.
Who's in the Christmas Special? And I want to know when that candy cane
is being put on trial for murdering Santa Candy canees are dangerous, and I
think we're seeing how dangerous they are when they are put in the hands of
proselytizing teachers in glassrooms. This is just how absurd we have got in this.
It's Florida. Florida has forgotten the one thing that teachers are supposed to
be doing. Teachers are supposed to do what the name says. They fail.
What we say in England is the one Seal Test. One Seal,
for those of you who don't know, is a brand of varnish for outdoor
fencing and the advertising worlds. Bronzeal does exactly what it says on the tin.
Florida teaching does nothing what the title suggests. It's absolute nonsense. You
have these people who are spouting complete and utter rubbish. I mean, I
want to go and take this pamphlet and I want to go and shove it
up this teacher's backside, but I get done for assultant battery. But I
can't go and prosecute this teacher for committing a Sultan battery on the senses of
the poor children that sat through the classroom. They had to listen to this
waffle and listen to this waste of paper. All I hope is that every
student in that classroom at least recycled the pamphlet they would give. They didn't
cause more environmental damage. I mean, we have Florida passing nonsense after nonsense
after nonsense, complete crap coming out of Florida. When it comes to education.
You have Florida teachers that can't get pay rises because the Florida Standardized Attainment
Test metric means that they need to have thistudents have a higher avidan the maximum
score available for the teachers to pass the teacher assessments. This is how absurd
Florida has become, and they have become detactual reality. I mean, you've
got bans on what teachers can and cannot say, which are federal judge recently
in another state said, these laws that prevent you from talking about gender uner
sexuality means you can't talk about any gender dentity and sexuality. You can't use
any pronouns whatsoever, even when it comes to cisgender heteronormative pronouns. This is
how absurd and how far off the deepend Florida has fallen into the Gulf of
Mexico. I mean, I've got a real serious question for the three of
you here. Do you think what Florida is doing at the moment and what
these people in Florida, such as this lunatic, nonsense, candy cane loving
teacher, he's actually pushing the envelope in their favor. Or do you think
people are getting so fed up that let us go, we don't won't be
script and it's pushing the needle in the other direction. That's easy. Yeah,
Yeah, I think you're right. I think you know, when the
pendulum swings swing so far in one direction, that's bound to come back.
And the farther you bring it into the one direction, the faster and harder
it's going to swing back. And I think we're seeing that. I think
we've been seeing that over the last few years now. This is why these
people have lost in the elections in the last three election cycles. It started
out real slow, but it's really building up momentum, and I really it
makes me not as worried about the future as I have been recently, so
I have a lot of hope for the future that people are finally waking up.
Unfortunately, I've had that feeling before, Like I got that in the
nineties. I really thought we were starting to wake up in the nineteen nineties,
and I don't know what happened somewhere along the way, it just kind
of died off. But I think the kids today seem to be a little
more aware of what's happening in the world socially and politically, and that gives
me a lot of hope. So I'm hoping that as that pendulum does swing
back, it does swing back harder and we're seeing a more balanced society instead
of one that's swinging so far to the to the right with these Christian ideals.
Jimmy, what do you think. Well, I think there are enclaves
that are not really moving at all, such as maybe Florida being a good
example or or specific maybe governmental or or localities on the on the state and
local government level that are probably just going to dig their heels at even further.
Something that I think was disturbing about this story was that only one parent
complaint, right, I mean, this is a Florida school, uh that
was you know, had had religious pamphlets being passed out and one only one
parent spoke up. And I think that that reflects maybe the society at large
around in that specific area, which is and that also speaks to the the
idea that Florida's Constitution, like I mentioned earlier, states that nothing shall I
don't remember exactly the wording I used. I think it was here we go,
so free exercise, you know, freedom shall not religious freedom shall not
justify practices inconsistent with public morals. Well, the public morals are defined differently
in certain areas than they are for the rest of us. And so while
children might be aware, there's still not in any more of a position to
kind of fight back, you know. It really takes their parents to kind
of step up and do their bidding for them, and that I don't see
happening enough. Yeah, I would have to say that I think most of
the children in that classroom are so readily indoctrinated in other areas of their lives
that I don't think, for the most part, that it even triggered.
It wasn't even a thought, oh wow, this should this be happening here.
It was just another day in the life of a person in Florida.
Without a doubt. We've seen repeated attacks and integration of religion into the schools
creeping in and Florida has welcomed it with open arms. So far for someone
to go, hey, this is outside the norm, I agree, it
is an unfortunate reflection of what's going on in Florida when we have one parent
saying this is a problem. And I only hope that when something like this
continues, because I don't think this is just a one off. And as
I said earlier, you know, this is just you know, this is
ignoring the blue whale in the room as far as this one incident, because
this is a pattern, and this is something that I agree with with Kelly
answering his question about whether there's been a backlash to it. I absolutely do
think that we have seen that backlash now, But is it going to happen
in a place like Florida, maybe an isolated pockets, but those isolated pockets
are still going to be under the thumb of the state government. So how
far what control they have is ultimately going to to be decided more by the
state with some latitude with them. I wish them luck. I hope that
this does change and we don't see this again. But I think that in
Florida, I don't think we can be surprised if we see round two,
round three, and ultimately a lot of things like this are going to need
to be decided and with a generous US Supreme Court if it ever ended up
in a court system, Well, I just don't know. But I think
you've all written Florida off. I think that's a problem here. I think
you've written off the students. I think you've written off the parents here,
because the way you've got to understand here is that whilst one parent complain,
how many students didn't he even bother to tell their parents and they just ignored
it. Majority How many these students do we think actually took this seriously.
It only takes one student to complain, It only has one parent. Why
do we not have mandatory pledges of allegiances in America in schools. Because one
Jehovah's witness family stood up and said, we do not agree with this,
it violates the establishment clause. That's why the pledge of allegiance is not mandatory
in schools in America. The case of Barnett, it took one Jehovah's witness
family, who were chased out of their town that they lived in, for
standing up. It takes one parent to complain about a pamphlet like this.
It takes one parent to say I will not allow my right to be trampled
upon. And the fact that there was one parent makes me smile because somebody
actually turned round to the educational establishment in Florida and went to a lot of
you, And I think that that is what we should be applauding here,
not the fact that it was only one somebody actually stood up and turned round
to Florida and went, were you bloody? How are you doing in this
classroom now? Dare you instead of teaching mathematics to my children, you're teaching
sugar based nonsense? Yeah, that's absolutely right. I think I think they
deserve commendation. But to get the fact that it gets to that point.
It's because there's so many parents that are following this trend of not doing anything.
And yes, that one domino, right, that one domino seems to
have fallen over. So I can't write off all of them. And you
bring up a very good point, But I think I I think I've written
off the speed at which these enclaves will turn toward doing the right thing.
One one is certainly promising. Let's turn that into two to four, to
eight and so on. Now here's a question, here's a question, in
all seriousness, to the three of you here, would you have the time
and inclination to complain if your child had told you the story that is this
story? Would you have actually stood up, taken the time and followed through
with a complaint. Would you have, in all honesty actually done that yes,
and said that this is wish, I can't do anything. I've done
it too. But you got to remember, look at the three people you're
asking. We're sitting here and doing this, so we're the kind of people
that would stand up for something like that, But that the audience out there,
and more important, if your answer to that question is actually no,
I wouldn't actually bother to stand up. Ask yourself why, ask yourself what
machters to you? And ask yourself, are you comfortable with what happened in
Florida potentially happening in a child's classroom near you or in your child's classroom even
more importantly, And that's all three of us here are that you asked or
we're all parents, so it is it's a question that does hit home for
us, right And that's why, because I am a parent, I would
stand up for it. So yeah, and one of my biggest concerns is
the fact that, yes, one parent standing up change things. I just
have a much greater concern about how politicized our court system is. So admittedly
it's beyond It's not a lack of confidence in Florida, because yes, it
only takes one person to stand up. My problem is is I lack confidence
in many aspects of our court system right now making the right decision. I
also want to point out it wasn't just one parent standing up. It was
one parent standing up and getting the f F fire up involved in it.
And I think that ultimately, if you see things like this and you're a
parent, do something. Don't just allow the envelope to keep pushing. Don't
keep pushing that envelope. Make a complaint to your school if this was happening
near you,