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We're back with another edition of the
Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily Dashinsky,

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culture editor here at the Federalist.
As always, you can email the show

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at radio at the Federalist dot com, follow us on ex at fdr LST.

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Make sure to subscribe wherever you download
your podcasts, and of course to

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the premium version of the Federalist dot
com as well. We are joined today

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by Eke, Calvin Beisner, and
David Leggetts. Legates. I got it

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right because on the second try,
because David told me before we started taping

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here that it was like Bill Gates. So the case is called Climate.

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The book is called Climate and Energy. They're the editors of super interesting new

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collection. It is called Climate and
Energy, the Case for Realism. Welcome

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to you both, Thank you very
much. Thank you Nat to be here.

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Yeah, no, absolutely, So
I'll start with you, Cal if

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you could just tell us a little
bit about your background and your career before

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we dive in, and then I'll
go to you David, that would be

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awesome. I guess you could call
me a mongrel, a mutt, an

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intellectual mutt. I have a lot
of academic background in philosophy and classical history,

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and classical languages, in economics and
economic ethics, and political philosophy,

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in history, but also in theology, and probably have done more work,

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though not in a formal academic setting, on environmental science and environmental stewardship,

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and particularly on climate change than anything
that I did for my PhD. So

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I'm an interdisciplinary guy, and I
have the great fun of getting to work

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with the roughly seventy different scholars,
about a third of them natural scientists,

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about a thirty economists, and a
third philosophers and theologians who are associated with

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the Cornwall Alliance for the Stewardship of
Creation. I get to pull together all

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the different perspectives that they bring on
various different problems. Awesome, David,

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How about you. I'm an academic. I've been in academia since nineteen seventy

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eight. I've been at the University
of Delaware, the University of Oklahoma,

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LSU, and it just got so
bad that I had to get out.

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So I took the retirement plan,
got out, and I've come to the

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Cornwall Alliance and never looked back.
Fantastic. Well, if you guys could

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tell us a little bit, And
I don't know who wants to take this

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first. But just about the Cornwall
Alliance and the work that you guys do,

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I think that would be super interesting
too. That's probably a perfect question

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for cal And we're a network,
as I mentioned of about seventy scholars,

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scientists, economists, philosophers, theologians, etc. Our mission is to educate

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the public and policymakers on biblical earth
stewardship, economic development for the poor,

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and the gospel of Jesus Christ,
together with the biblical worldview, theology and

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ethics that undergird that gospel. Our
focus really is on two things. One

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proper earth stewardship. What is it
that we are intended to do? For

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instance, by Genesis one twenty eight
that says that God blessed Adam and Eve

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and instructed them to be fruitful and
multiply and fill the earth and subdue it

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and have dominion over everything in it. Some folks think that Christians consider that

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license to just rape and pillage the
planet. That's certainly not true. Since

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we're made in God's image. God
intends our dominion to reflect his own.

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He started with nothing and made everything, started with darkness and made light,

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started with chaos and made order started
with non life and made life, and

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so our calling is to reflect him
in that we should be about the business

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of enhancing the fruitfulness, the beauty
and the safety of the earth to the

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glory of God and the benefit of
our neighbors, so that we're addressing the

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two great commandments to love God and
to love neighbor. And then the second

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major area of our work relates to
economic development for the poor. What are

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the things that are absolutely indispensable to
lifting and keeping whole societies out of poverty?

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And those are first five different social
institutions, private property rights, entrepreneurship,

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free trade, limited government, and
the rule of law. And a

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second, a very important material physical
condition of rising out of poverty is access

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to abundant, affordable, reliable energy
at massive scale. And unfortunately, an

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awful lot of the environmental movement opposes
both those five social institutions and that access

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to abundant, affordable, reliable energy, and therefore stands in the way of

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lifting billions of people out of poverty
around the world. Did you have anything

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to add to that, David No. I think he's a spokesman, so

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I just let him Talkabils. I'll
start with you then, David, on

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the book you tell us about.
I mean, the title is very straightforward

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in this book, but a little
bit about why you guys wanted to edit

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this book, put this book together, why it's so timely, that would

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be fantastic. Well, there's a
lot going on in climate change in particular,

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and me being a climatologist and Al
being a theologian and an ecologist.

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The idea is that we wanted to
bring together scientists on both ends of factum

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climate and energy to be able to
talk about what is going on specifically with

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this climate change narrative. I mean, a lot of what you hear,

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particularly in the news media, particularly
on radio and so forth, is really

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that the world is coming to a
screeching halt. It's all because humans are

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producing carbon dioxide in the atmosphere,
which is somehow an evil gas. And

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unless we take draconian actions now to
stop all this from happening, that we

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are going to be in a disastrous
state in twenty to thirty years. And

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it's always down the road. It's
never happening. I mean back twenty thirty

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years ago, it was going to
happen in the early twenty tens, and

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so forth, and now it just
keeps getting pushed away. And that's part

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of the issue is that this really
isn't a science question anymore. It's become

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an argument that's been made in order
to exact some corporate control. The idea

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is that if you look at the
true science, you see that the humans

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do effective planet, but we're not
defecting our planet in a sense that the

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planet is going to become disrupted,
that we're going to have massive thunderstorms and

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hurricanes and tornadoes and floods and droughts. This is not happening and it's not

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likely to happen, and that in
general, warmer conditions are better for civilization.

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Warmer conditions are better for growing,
for feeding people, and essentially getting

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into the energy side of things.
The offshoot of this is that we need

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to stop technological advancements. And clearly, what has happened since the early eighteen

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hundreds, when about ten percent of
the people lived above the poverty line,

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Now we're going to o case,
we're only about ten percent of the people

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are below the poverty line. And
that's been through the industrialization, through the

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development of inexpensive energy. And I'm
afraid that what we're about to do is

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to turn all this back. And
so the idea of the book was to

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have a number of experts talk about
their various fields, explaining the problem to

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lay people so they can understand what's
going on and therefore realize that it's not

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fear that should be driving us,
but rather we should be paying attention to,

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as we said, putting God first
and caring for neighbor and cal Is

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there anything you want to add to
that question about basically why you guys felt

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at this moment. This collection was
so important. I think part of it

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is to bridge the divide. There
are really two opposite ends of a spectrum

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regarded regarding climate change. One might
be described as catastrophist or alarmist. You

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know, climate change is an existential
threat. Human activity is the overwhelming majority

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cause of it, and therefore if
we just change our conduct, we can

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limit the climate change and divert the
disaster. The other in the end of

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the spectrum is denialism, just saying
the whole thing is a hoax, there's

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no such thing as climate change,
or if there is, human activity has

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nothing to do with it, and
we just don't need to pay any attention

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to it whatsoever. Our perspective is
that anthropogenic global warming is real, but

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it's unlikely to become catastrophic. It
could, but won't necessarily be moderated,

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prevented, or even reversed by a
new natural cycle of global cooling, or

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it might be augmented by a new
warming cycle. The cost benefit ratio of

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adapting to whatever future time we face
is better than the cost benefit ratio of

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mitigation. That is, mitigation being
trying to control global temperature by substituting wind,

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sol or and other renewable energy sources
for the hydrogarbon fuels also known as

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fossil fuels, coal, oil,
and natural gas, whose abundance, affordability,

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and reliability lifted much of mankind out
of poverty and short life spans over

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the past two centuries and are needed
to lift the rest. And then,

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finally, if we choose adaptation,
that is, adapting to whatever climate change

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happens over mitigation that is trying to
control climate, then our life will likely

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be much better at the end of
the century than today is today, or

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ever has been. You know,
that broad into aperture, I think is

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one of the things that is so
obviously missing in the climate debate and has

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been for a really long time,
you know, sort of the scope of

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human history. And one question I
was excited to pose to both of you

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is basically, what have you found
or what in your experience is the most

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persuasive argument or the most persuasive way
to argue against the kind of the dominant

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narrative that is pushed from Hollywood to
the media on this question. And I

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don't know who wants to start,
maybe since Cal just want we can go

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back to you, David, I
would have to almost say, facts is

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usually where I start my presentations,
is that what you're here in the media

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is that hurricanes are becoming more intense, more frequent, more thunderstorms, more

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tornadoes, more floods, more droughts, more and more and more of all

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of the disastrous things. And when
you start to actually look at the data,

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you see that there's really cycles that
set up. We go through periods

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of warming, we go through periods
that it's cooler, we go through conditions

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where we have lots of aumantic hurricanes, and then for maybe ten, fifteen,

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twenty years when they aren't quite as
frequent. But when you look at

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the long term cycle of these things. We aren't seeing more hurricanes, we

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aren't seeing more tornadoes, we aren't
seeing more floods we're droughts, or we're

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not seeing any more precipitation. We're
not seeing any of these disasters occurring.

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Which we're always told that this is
happening right now, and then the next

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step is, well, okay,
if it's not happening now, it's just

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around the corner because climate models say
that it is. So we look at

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climate models that climate models are very
complex systems. They're attempting to simulate a

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very complex system that is probably the
most complex thing we can look at except

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maybe for life itself, and we
don't really understand a lot of how it

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works. But we put these models
together and then we find that really they're

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driven by two things. One they
are set up to overstate the carbon dioxide

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warming and secondly that they're driven by
a warming scenario usually that's much greater than

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anybody believes carbon dioxide will increase.
So as a result, when they track

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current temperatures, they always overstate the
case, or as we say, they

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tend to run hot, and so
in effect, we have data that's not

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showing a current trend and then we
have a model that we know is inherently

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fawed and doesn't follow the real world. And so those seem to be the

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two major features upon which the argument
is based. And the third then becomes

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the third leg of the try it, if you will, becomes the actual

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physics of the problem, and we
can look at how carbon dioxide warms the

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planet, what it does. And
when you start to look at those kinds

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of things, you realize that God's
creation is very well developed. I mean,

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he said it was good, and
certainly it is, and so there's

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a lot of checks and balances that
go on, and essentially it's a very

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well regulated system. And so that's
what I hope that the book conveys,

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is it essentially the disaster scenarios just
are fabricated and not realistic. American jobs

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and how it affects your wallet.
Don't look at that headline number that the

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politicians are spewing on TV. Although
more Americans are employed, they're all working

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most of them are part time employees.

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Be informed. Check out the Watchdot
on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski

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00:14:03,879 --> 00:14:09,519
on Apple, Spotify or wherever you
get your podcasts. Yeah, you know,

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one of the reasons I was excited
to ask that question is it seems

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like right now is a really exciting
time and we can get to that in

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a minute, where people are accessing
information that's contra to the dominant narrative.

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And I imagine you guys have had
experiences where when you present facts that aren't

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presented or aren't presented fairlier accurately in
the media, people might have light bulb

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moments. So cal has that happened
to you, and if so, what

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do you find to be the most
powerful? Yes, that happens quite a

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lot, actually, And David just
touched on the problem about climate models and

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how they don't really match reality.
I've often found it helpful to refer to

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a graph that our friend doctor David
Doctor Roy Spencer, who's a principal research

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scientist in climate at the University of
Alabama and a NASA Award winning scientist developer

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of the NASA satellite Global Temperature Monitoring
system. Roy put out a graph,

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oh about fifteen years ago that became
quite famous. It showed the difference between

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the simulations from climate models and the
actual observations of global temperature, and the

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models were running two, three,
four times as much warming as the observations,

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and so he titled the graph ninety
five percent of climate models agree observations

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are wrong. Now that's funny because
it's the exact opposite of scientific method.

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The late Nobel Prize winning physicist Richard
Feinman explained that the key to science is

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that we try to figure out how
nature works by first making a guess.

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Then we make predictions of what we
think we should observe. If the guess

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is right, then we observe in
the real world. And Fineman pointed out

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if the prediction, if the observations
contradict the predictions, then our guess is

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wrong. And it doesn't matter how
beautiful the guess is or how smart we

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are, and I would add,
or how many people agree with us.

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If the observations contradict the predictions,
the guess is wrong. So when I

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see people looking at the difference between
the model projections and the real world observations.

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They then begin to think, oh, my goodness, we really don't

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have much reason to fear dangerous warming
in the future. And that's exactly right,

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because if the models are wrong,
if they do not accurately depict how

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the climate system works, which is
very clear, then they provide no rational

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basis for any predictions about future temperature, and therefore also national basis for any

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kind of policy. And by the
way, Roy's Graft came out about ten

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or fifteen years ago, the same
continues to be the case. In fact,

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the latest models diverge from real world
observations even more than did the earlier

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models, despite the fact that we've
had another decade or so of development and

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spent some more billions of dollars trying
to improve the models. So I find

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that people tend to find that very
helpful. From a biblical worldview perspective,

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I point out, as David hinted, look, an infinitely wise God designed,

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an infinitely powerful God created, and
an infinitely faithful God sustains the Earth,

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including its climate system. And when
he had created everything, he looked

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at it all and behold, it
was very good. Now do we think

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that a very good climate system would
be one where if you increased the proportion

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of one gas in it, carbon
dioxide, from twenty eight thousandths of a

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percent, which it was before the
Industrial Revolution, to forty two thousandths of

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one percent, which is about what
it is today, that would cause climate

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catastrophe. I don't think so.
That's like saying a brilliant architect will design

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a building so that if you lean
on a wall, all the feedback mechanisms

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and it will multiply the stress of
your weight until the building collapses. No,

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I don't think so. And the
fact is that we find in nature

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that natural systems all tend to work
such that if you perturb them and disturb

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them, then the feedback mechanisms inherent
with them will bring them back to stability

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rather than forcing them off into utter
disaster. Now, another huge question that

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really I wrestle with as someone who
thinks about media a lot, is why

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both of you think that the media, in the face of facts, is

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having a hard time covering this story
accurately, covering this story fairly. Obviously,

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ideology has to be a huge part
of that, but at a certain

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point, the facts and the ideology
have to clash when you're in a newsroom,

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that is, you know, talking
to different scientists, and maybe you

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guys actually have a take on that. Maybe it's because they're listening to the

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wrong people. What do you think
about that, David, I'll start with

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you. There's I mean, we
could go on for hours I'm talking about

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this. I mean there's essentially several
different types of people. They're the people

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that are the true believers. They
will believe this regardless of what the facts

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say. There are the useful idiots
who go along with it, and then

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there are I think the benefit from
having this narrative, and I think the

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media is sort of fall into that
third category. They benefit from this narrative.

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I mean, there's an old saying
in journalism, if it bleeds,

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it leads. The idea is disasters
make the front page, and good news

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stories are what you phil uses filler
late in the newscast if you just don't

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have anything else to put in there. And so the idea is that we

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are destroying the planet. This is
common sense. And I usually tell the

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story I got started in this at
the University of Oklahoma and it was the

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one hundredth anniversary of the Oklahoma forming
of the Oklahoma the University of Oklahoma,

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the Land Run and they had a
meeting and brought in a number of top

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people talking about where they thought their
disciplines were going in the next twenty thirty

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years. And they brought in Bob
Correll from the federal government, and he

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was lamenting the fact that a lot
of money was going to places, so

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to people to do solid earth geophysics
so they could dig big holes in the

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ground, and for interplanetary astrophysics so
they could build big, big telescopes and

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so forth. And he said,
you know, for a long time,

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atmospheric science has been a weak step
child. But we are on the verge

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of getting lots and lots of money
like we've never had before. And I'm

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waiting for him to say, and
this is how we're going to use that

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to further you know, better on
knowledge of tornado, forecasting of weather conditions,

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I mean, all sorts of things
he could have said. And he

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essentially said, we better not kill
the goose that's laying the golden egg.

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Keep telling the media that the end
is coming up, that it's a disastrous

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thing, and we'll get more media, more money for it, and as

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Dick Linsen is demonstrated, this sort
of is a positive feedback process. The

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scientists say the end is near,
media play it up, and then scientific

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organizations say, well, we need
more funding to review this, and goes

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to the scientists who are pleased.
The universities are pleased, they make them

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more proclamations, and it just keeps
going round and round. So I think

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it's a process that seemingly everybody wins
except the American people. What do you

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think, cal Well? I think
David got a lot of it very clearly

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said there. As a former journalist
myself, I'll just speak a little bit

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in defense of the journalists here,
not saying that they tend to be right,

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but saying they've got a really hard
job. As a journalist, you

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may cover three or four different stories
every day, and that means changing stories

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over and over and over again.
That doesn't give you much time to do

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in depth research on much of anything. Even journalists who specialize, say in

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an environment or maybe even in climate
change, very rarely have the time to

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do in depth research that would enable
them to see past the headline grabbing statements.

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So when you get, for instance, the chairman of the UN inter

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Governmental Panel on Climate Change saying that
I'm sorry, no, I'm thinking to

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the wrong person. The Secretary General
of the United Nations saying that the most

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recent assessment report from the Inner Governmental
Panel on Climate Change was code read for

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humanity. Now, you can go
through all the scientific assessment report and never

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find anything like that, but the
journalists won't know that. They'll just get

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the press release quoting the Secretary General
again, other press releases, and so

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that's a part of the problem is
that just journalists don't have the time to

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go into great depth. But also
again as a former journalist, son of

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a lifelong journalist, I'll repeat,
yeah, bad news is good news.

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Good news is no news because bad
news draws eyeballs, and eyeballs are what

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you have to promise to advertisers,
and advertisers pay your bills. Our either

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view, I'll go back to you, David on this one. You know,

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as we were talking about earlier,
right now, it does seem like

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books like yours are breaking through what
previously was this narrative so aggressively maintained by

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gatekeepers who I think that's a fantastic
point. Cal you know, in itself,

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the job is very, very difficult. Then you throw a sort of

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ideology into the mix and the new
business models, and some of it not

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new, but you throw business models
into the mix. It's kind of a

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00:25:02,279 --> 00:25:07,799
toxic recipe right now for getting climate
reporting right. But just the sort of

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explosion in podcasts and new media and
new information getting out in new ways,

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it seems to me like it has
really had an effect on the climate discussion

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and is really reaching more and more
people. So I just first wanted to

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ask you both, is that your
experience. Are you optimistic right now that

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books like this one are reaching new
audiences and that people are hearing kind of

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the other side of the story.
I'm generally pessimistic by nature, but everybody

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tells me, and I'm starting to
realize that maybe we are turning the corner

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that for a while, you know, the mantra was at the end of

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the world and so forth, and
now, I mean, there's only so

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many times you can tell people the
sky's falling and it doesn't fall before they

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finally say, you know, I
think I'm being had, And I think

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that's where we're starting to get.
I mean, constantly we were told Glacier

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National Park will have glaciers, England
will no longer have sea snow. And

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you know, all of this was
supposed to be right around the corner.

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They made forecasts for it, and
of course they keep pushing it and pushing

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it and pushing it. And at
some point, that's why I say,

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people say that, you know,
this guy is no longer really following.

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You're selling me a bill of goods. And I think that's possibly where we

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are now, is that people are
starting to say, yeah, I don't

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00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:30,839
buy this anymore. The science really
isn't settled, because the science is never

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settled, and I think that the
consensus that's a non consensus, has been

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essentially overplayed. And I think that's
what that's where we're setting up for a

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change. What do you think would
call Yeah, I'm going to add to

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that that I think a lot of
people are beginning to realize not only do

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I not buy it ideologically, but
I don't want to buy it financially when

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they're watching energy skyrocket, which,
by the way, President Obama, when

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he was campaigning for office the first
time around, promised would be the case

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if he were elected, that energy
prices would necessarily skyrocket because he would embrace

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the notion of forcing us away from
fossil fuels and toward wind and solar.

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As people see their electric bills,
their gas bills, their gasoline costs rising,

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more and more of them are just
unwilling to go there. It's really

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interesting. If you pull the American
public as to their concern about climate change,

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many of them will say that they
are highly concerned about it. But

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as soon as you put a price
tag on it, would you be willing

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to spend a dollar a month extra
on your electric bill to reduce climate change?

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Suddenly all of that alarm disappears.
And so what we're seeing is that

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the kinds of policies being pushed to
fight climate change are the policies that will

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deprive people of the abundant, affordable, reliable energy indispensable to keeping them out

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of poverty or if they're poor,
now lifting them up out of poverty.

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And so as that becomes more and
more clear, people become more and more

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open to the message that you know, that's not necessary. And what I

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find often is very very helpful is
to help people just to recognize, look,

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at this point, if you have
an income equivalent to say, the

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bottom five percent of Americans. You
can thrive in any climate, from the

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Arctic Circle to the Sahara Desert to
the Brazilian rainforest. But if your income

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is about a dollar or two a
day, you can't thrive in the best

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tropical paradise. What that means is
that poverty is a much greater threat to

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human health in life than anything related
to climate and weather. And that's because

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wealth enables us to protect ourselves from
all kinds of climate and weather disasters.

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That's evident from the fact that over
the past one hundred years, the rate

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of human mortality caused by weather disasters
has fallen by over ninety eight percent.

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So if it's a choice between prosperity
and preventing a tenth of a degree or

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two tenths of a degree of increase
in global average temperature, almost everybody will

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choose posterity. And it's a perfectly
rational choice. And you know, I'm

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00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:52,680
curious also on this kind of big
quick picture question about you know, is

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00:29:52,759 --> 00:30:00,640
the centerpiece of the debate carbon emissions
and what happens in India, in China,

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as we you know, bust our
butts here in the United States to

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the point where we have electrical good
problems in certain places in the country,

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where we have, you know,
serious crises, energy crises in certain places

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of the country because of this green
transition. What is there to be done?

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We're sort of how should we think
about, you know, as you

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00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:27,319
as you mentioned, not being so
far blinded by the idea that well,

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there's nothing anthropogenic about any of this, there's really nothing going on, but

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also ensuring that enough people have access
to all of the wonderful technology that does

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alleviate poverty, that does alleviate hunger, that does alleviate suffering, if it's

359
00:30:42,799 --> 00:30:48,440
medication, whatever it is. How
should we think about striking that balance correctly,

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while at the same time recognizing that
some of this with other countries is

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also totally out of our control.
That's that's kind of a complicated ones.

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00:30:56,599 --> 00:31:00,960
I'll throw it to every once immersed
David, go ahead, Well, I

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00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,160
was going to say, since you
grew up in India, you have a

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00:31:04,279 --> 00:31:10,319
fairly good grasp on exactly what's going
on over there, so maybe better for

365
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,240
you to come Well, let's be
careful not to exaggerate the case. I

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didn't actually grow up in India.
I lived there for a year as a

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little child in Calcutta. But while
there, because of the terrible poverty problems

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in India and the filth that always
accompanies that, my mother became very very

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ill, actually paralyzed for a time, And so every day I had to

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be taken to the home of an
Indian family where I would spend the day.

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My ayah or nurse would take me
by the hand and we would walk

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down the blocks. This was early
in the morning, and we were out

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before the trucks came around, which
meant that all along the way I was

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stepping over the bodies of people who
died overnight of disease and starvation. That

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gave me an appreciation of the problems
of poverty that I think goes well beyond

376
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typical Americans who've never seen any such
thing up close personally. So what I've

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recognized is that frankly, we need
to help people to understand that human health

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and longevity depend far more on overcoming
poverty than on controlling climate. And we

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00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:40,480
can see that as we see the
absolutely lockstep correlation between economic development anywhere and

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00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:49,440
life expectancy rising and infant and child
mortality rates falling. We can also see

381
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:55,000
it by the fact that there is
no such correlation between changes in global temperature

382
00:32:55,119 --> 00:33:01,880
or any other sort of climate thing
and human health or life expectancy. People

383
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:08,400
just keep living longer and longer and
being more and more healthy despite changes in

384
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:16,160
climate. So you know, what
makes better sense to try to control global

385
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:22,720
climate or to try to make people
wealthy enough that it doesn't matter what happens

386
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,960
in the climate. It also helps
to remember, by the way, of

387
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:31,079
course, that when we're talking about
climate change and we are defining that as

388
00:33:31,119 --> 00:33:39,119
a change in global average temperature,
the change that is in mind is fractions

389
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:46,599
of a degree. Now we can't
feel that, you know, our typical

390
00:33:47,279 --> 00:33:54,400
mercury thermometers can't even show it.
And yet we're told that somehow or other

391
00:33:54,480 --> 00:34:00,759
this is to be a disaster.
That's craziness. All all see changes much

392
00:34:00,799 --> 00:34:06,880
greater than that, from nighttime low
to daytime high, certainly from summer high

393
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:12,880
to winter low. And you know, there is a silver lining also to

394
00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:17,079
greenhouse driven global warming, and that
is that it happens primarily towards the poles,

395
00:34:17,519 --> 00:34:22,760
primarily in winter, primarily at night, not toward the equator in summer

396
00:34:23,079 --> 00:34:29,679
or in the daytime. In other
words, low temperatures rise much more than

397
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:35,199
high temperatures. If the high temperatures
rise at all, the result is longer

398
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:39,159
growing seasons, and we can farm
closer to the poles, which means more

399
00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:45,480
food for everybody, which helps the
poor more than anybody else. David,

400
00:34:45,559 --> 00:34:52,360
anything to add, No, not
at all. Well, you just solved

401
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:58,440
the problem. Cal, I wish
that were So is there anything either of

402
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,320
you wants to that we did touch
on today and maybe from the book that

403
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:07,960
you want to make sure listeners understand, or any reason you think that it's

404
00:35:07,039 --> 00:35:13,679
especially important for people to pick up
a copy of the book. I would

405
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,199
mention a couple of things. First
off, I think one thing that makes

406
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:27,039
this book extra valuable is that every
chapter begins with a short chapter summary.

407
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,800
Tends to run about a page and
a half to two sometimes two and a

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00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:36,320
half pages, written for non experts, so that ordinary people like me.

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I mean, I am not a
trained scientist, though I've read a whole

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lot more on climate science than I
ever did for my PhD. But it

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is this makes the book very accessible
to non experts, so I think that's

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an important thing. Another important thing
is simply that it does it does try

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to be even handed. As I
said earlier, it's not alarmist, it's

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not denialist. It's realist. And
I think that should appeal to an awful

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lot of people. It also should
be a good tool for policymakers, members

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of Congress, people in the administration, people in state legislatures and state governor's

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offices and whatnot. This is something
that I think many of them will find

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very helpful as they consider policymaking.
And if I can add this little bit

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too, you know where can this
book be had well, of course at

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Amazon or Barnes and Noble and various
other booksellers. But the Cornwall Alliance for

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00:36:44,679 --> 00:36:50,840
the Stewards of Creation, which is
the think tank nonprofit that developed this book

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00:36:52,039 --> 00:36:58,360
as our way of saying thank you
when people make a one hundred percent tax

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00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:05,039
deductible donation literally any size to us
during the month of April, and our

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00:37:05,079 --> 00:37:09,079
supply lasts will be glad to send
them a free copy. And I think

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that should make the book a little
extra appealing. Free is a good deal.

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00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:17,920
David, did you want to add
anything, No, I just said

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I want to agree with what KL
said that in part we get the idea

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00:37:22,119 --> 00:37:25,719
that this is a very polarized discussion, and it's sort of like the old

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00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:30,199
CNN crossfire. You get one person
on one extreme side and another person on

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00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:34,159
the other extreme side and have the
two of them yell at each other for

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an hour. That's not necessarily how
climate change works. It's how it works

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in the public sphere. But in
science when you start to read and look

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00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,360
at what's going on, I think
the realist position is really where it is

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00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:51,559
to say, you know, it's
a hoax. No climate has always changed

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00:37:51,559 --> 00:37:54,519
and climate always will change, and
I think that is a problem to try

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00:37:54,599 --> 00:37:58,079
to play it off as a hoax, but to try to play it off

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00:37:58,119 --> 00:38:01,519
as the end of the world is
also serious problem. So really it's a

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00:38:01,559 --> 00:38:07,320
middle ground, essentially saying that the
climate varies, climate changes, but in

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00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:12,480
fact what we're going to see is
something that's probably a little bit better off

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00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:17,000
than it was last year. With
climate change is something we all should look

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00:38:17,039 --> 00:38:21,719
forward to and not be scared to
death of. Well, the book once

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00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:27,119
again is called Climate and Energy the
Case for Realism. Make sure to grab

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00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:31,000
your copy. David and cal thank
you so much for your time today.

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00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:36,280
You're welcome, Thank you, and
I hope that all your listeners will go

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00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:40,599
to Cornwallalliance dot org and learn more
about what we do and take advantage of

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00:38:40,639 --> 00:38:45,559
that possibility of a free copy.
Sounds great, Cornwall Alliance, make sure

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00:38:45,599 --> 00:38:50,079
to check out their website and get
your own free coffee. What a great

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00:38:50,119 --> 00:38:52,119
deal. I'm Emily Tashinski, culture
editor here at The Federalist. We'll be

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00:38:52,119 --> 00:38:55,639
back soon with more. Until then, be lovers of freedom and anxious for

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the frame po