1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:04,240 Welcome to the Teachers Need Teachers Podcasts, the podcast for teachers who don't want 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:08,800 to just survive their first few years but actually thrive. I've been teaching for 3 00:00:08,839 --> 00:00:12,000 twenty two years, and I'm pretty much set in the way that I teach 4 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:14,720 and do things in the way that I run my classroom. But at the 5 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,280 same time, I've always wondered in the back of my head, how could 6 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,239 I be a better teacher? I mean, I have a solid grasp of 7 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:25,679 classroom management and standards and what I need to teach the kids and even how 8 00:00:25,679 --> 00:00:28,519 I want to teach them. But at the same time, I know that 9 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,879 not everyone is having their needs met. I know that there are students that 10 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,920 are woefully behind and just don't really want to speak up about it and may 11 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:39,039 never catch up because I don't have time. I also know that there are 12 00:00:39,039 --> 00:00:43,359 students that are really ahead and are bored, and just because they like me, 13 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:46,359 they don't get themselves to the trouble. But I know that they really 14 00:00:46,399 --> 00:00:49,679 need to be challenged. So what am I supposed to do? In this 15 00:00:49,759 --> 00:00:53,640 episode, which is part two of a two part series about the Modern Classrooms 16 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:58,240 Project, the co founder of the Modern Classrooms Project Kareem Farah and I are 17 00:00:58,359 --> 00:01:03,759 discussing how to implement the model that has really revolutionized teaching. Tens of thousands 18 00:01:03,759 --> 00:01:07,200 of teachers are implementing this model and have not only seen great gains in their 19 00:01:07,239 --> 00:01:11,319 students, but they're actually catching up students who fell behind during the pandemic. 20 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:15,760 So if that's you and you really want to start being frustrated with teaching, 21 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:18,879 be sure to stick around, especially to the end where I talk about how 22 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:22,719 you can start doing this in your classroom right away. So if you miss 23 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:26,719 the first episode of this two part series, be sure to go back to 24 00:01:26,799 --> 00:01:30,879 that because Kareem and I discuss not only what the Modern Classrooms project is, 25 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:34,599 but also how it works and how you can start wrapping your brain around implementation. 26 00:01:34,799 --> 00:01:38,519 In this particular interview, we're going to be talking more about what it 27 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,439 looks like with assessment and what it looks like in your classroom. So here 28 00:01:42,439 --> 00:01:48,359 we go. So I wanted to switch care real quick to implementation. So 29 00:01:48,799 --> 00:01:53,000 hopefully we've convinced people that you know, this is something that will really have 30 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:57,000 an impact. It has had an impact because you have tens of thousands of 31 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:02,840 educators using this model. I will have to say that it does look like 32 00:02:04,239 --> 00:02:07,800 a lot of work. Like initially, I have always wanted to try this, 33 00:02:08,319 --> 00:02:14,639 and it just seems like every day I'm bouncing around the classroom as opposed 34 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:16,719 to I just have to deliver a lesson and let kids work. I mean, 35 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:21,400 I'm not gonna lie. After twenty two years of teaching, that's how 36 00:02:21,439 --> 00:02:24,560 I keep myself from getting exhausted. But now it sounds like I'm having to 37 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:29,919 keep tabs on all thirty six of my students per period and it feels like 38 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,080 a lot of work. What do you have to say to those of us 39 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:36,599 that are a little bit hesitant because of it? So, I mean, 40 00:02:36,719 --> 00:02:39,479 the workload is on the prep, it's not on the actual classroom experience. 41 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:45,240 I mean, without a doubt, the educators who have done our model say 42 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:50,039 that they find the classroom experience substantially less stressful. In fact, eighty six 43 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:54,759 percent of educators who do our model find the job more sustainable. Ninety five 44 00:02:54,879 --> 00:03:00,719 percent say they feel more optimistic about the future of teaching. So I think 45 00:03:00,719 --> 00:03:02,800 what you find is, once you actually get it off the ground and running 46 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:07,639 and can execute it, you will find the job to be one that is 47 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:12,560 filled with more joy and one that feels like you can do it for a 48 00:03:12,599 --> 00:03:16,360 longer period of time. There is a workload component on the front den that 49 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:22,000 is real, like you are changing the way that you deliver instruction, which 50 00:03:22,039 --> 00:03:24,800 means you need to change the way that you created your resources. And in 51 00:03:24,879 --> 00:03:29,759 that piece, you just have to be disciplined around wanting to do that and 52 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,360 planning ahead of time. So most educators will plan a unit in advance. 53 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:37,360 They will invest a fair amount of time in the summer to really think through 54 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,120 how they want to design their modern classroom. But the beautiful thing with that 55 00:03:40,599 --> 00:03:45,639 is once you plan it for your course, it's planned. Like I have 56 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:49,879 to joke, I found it a nonprofit in the third year of implementation because 57 00:03:49,879 --> 00:03:53,400 all my courses were planned. So I would come in every day, my 58 00:03:53,479 --> 00:03:57,639 classroom would kind of run itself and I'd be the facilitator. I'd be grading 59 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,759 in the class period because I'd be delivering live feedback. I had very little 60 00:04:00,759 --> 00:04:05,280 planning to do it that All my videos have been created and been used multiple 61 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:09,800 years. I made tweaks year over year to make it right. So there's 62 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:13,479 also like this really cool feeling for the first time when you design a modern 63 00:04:13,479 --> 00:04:17,360 classroom, like the time that you're putting into planning is not just necessary, 64 00:04:17,439 --> 00:04:23,480 but it's actually paying back long term in the amount you work and kind of 65 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,639 what the classroom experience feels like. I think it was really frustrating for me 66 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,240 when I taught traditionally. I felt like every minute I was adding to my 67 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:31,839 planning wasn't translating to any real gains in the classroom. It was like I 68 00:04:31,879 --> 00:04:36,240 was hitting a wall in that wall wasn't It wasn't. My ceiling on meeting 69 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:41,000 students needs wasn't in particularly high right. It was like a huge percentage of 70 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,199 students feel like they're not being able to have their needs men, I have 71 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:48,279 no plan to address that. That's true. If I have one or two 72 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,639 students that are far behind, I had to ask myself, what am I 73 00:04:51,639 --> 00:04:55,240 going to squeeze in? Am I going to take up my lunch for them 74 00:04:55,319 --> 00:05:00,199 to come in or after school? Do I just say oh well and move 75 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:02,600 on and hope they pick it up along the way. So I could see 76 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:08,160 how, definitely how this would help catch them up. But the one thing 77 00:05:08,199 --> 00:05:11,600 that also like it's not so much a red flag, but I was concerned 78 00:05:11,639 --> 00:05:15,000 about, is it feels like there's a lot of assessing. So I mean, 79 00:05:15,079 --> 00:05:18,120 maybe this is just me still trying to grapple with this because it feels 80 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:23,120 like I have to do with these checks. Or do I just do a 81 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:27,759 check when they turn in the mastery check and then have them go back and 82 00:05:28,199 --> 00:05:31,399 redo it. Is it constant student revision? Or can I how do I 83 00:05:31,519 --> 00:05:34,720 catch them before they even get to that part? Because I'm a big believer 84 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:40,759 in not grading everything and really minimizing the number of things that students submit, 85 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:45,639 because I think grading really sucks up a lot of our time. So you 86 00:05:45,759 --> 00:05:46,800 all, I mean, first of all, teachers do this in a million 87 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,639 different ways. So one of the kind of beautiful ways modern class from this 88 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:57,160 project views change in glassroom instruction is that ultimately the educator decides how to do 89 00:05:57,240 --> 00:05:59,319 the model, and the way is to do it correctly. There are some 90 00:05:59,439 --> 00:06:02,079 educators who only grade mastery checks. There were some educators who grade every single 91 00:06:02,079 --> 00:06:05,279 thing that a student turns, and that is totally up to the educator. 92 00:06:05,639 --> 00:06:09,959 What I would say is I could use by example, students had assignments they 93 00:06:09,959 --> 00:06:12,959 were completing in activities, and then they had mastery checks that they completed, 94 00:06:12,959 --> 00:06:15,879 and then there were summative assessments, and the summitive assessments are graded like all 95 00:06:15,879 --> 00:06:17,920 smitive assessments are graded. You know, they're a bunch of skills in one 96 00:06:18,079 --> 00:06:21,279 you grade them, and you don't grade for mastery there, you mean you 97 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:25,480 greade for mapstery. But a student can actually get a seventy percent on that. 98 00:06:26,399 --> 00:06:30,920 Whenever I had assignments, I spot checked assignments and I spot checked assignments, 99 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:32,839 and I used kind of the high leverage spots on the assignments where I 100 00:06:32,879 --> 00:06:38,759 knew skills were being kind of tested, not like an assessment way, but 101 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:42,480 like a student was applying a new component of the lesson. There. Let 102 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:46,079 me spot check this to see if I'm seeing any glaring years. And that 103 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:49,639 was very quick, like I could look at that and within minute understand whether 104 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:53,639 a student was on the right track or not on the right track. The 105 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,639 things that I graded closely were mastery checks. But one of the things that 106 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:00,560 teachers learned both in our mentorship program and the free course is mastery check must 107 00:07:00,639 --> 00:07:03,000 be designed to be very easy to grade, and you must be able to 108 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:08,279 deliver multiple forms. But that is your tool to understand whether the student has 109 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,439 actually understood the skill. So when a mass tree check comes in, they're 110 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:15,720 usually half sheets of paper one to two questions. Don't worry about assessing every 111 00:07:15,759 --> 00:07:19,439 single component of a lesson. Focus on those high leverage components the lesson and 112 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:24,199 those ones you should grade. But you're grading in class. You're literally doing 113 00:07:24,279 --> 00:07:28,000 ninety percent of that grading live when it comes in, and then you're deciding 114 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,519 whether that student has mastered the skill or you're going to pull them down. 115 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,199 So you're probably doing a little more grading than you would in a traditional setting, 116 00:07:33,199 --> 00:07:38,040 but you're spending a fairly large chunk of time doing that during the class 117 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:42,199 period. It's driving a lot of the discussions. Yeah okay, yeah, 118 00:07:42,199 --> 00:07:45,879 so a lot of like over the shoulder, I can see what you're doing 119 00:07:45,959 --> 00:07:50,399 right now grading, which I also like because again that's not something that I 120 00:07:50,439 --> 00:07:56,279 have to create later on. I'm grading in real time. So for you, 121 00:07:56,439 --> 00:08:01,879 what did the students ever, like, physically or electronically submit? I 122 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,639 had two? I mean mine was very paper based. Sorry to the cling 123 00:08:05,879 --> 00:08:09,279 like, well did they give you like that? You actually collected? Yeah, 124 00:08:09,319 --> 00:08:11,800 so you add two components of every lesson. Generally speaking, you had 125 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:16,839 your assignment. In some cases that was an activity they did on a piece 126 00:08:16,879 --> 00:08:18,639 of paper. In some cases there was a word sheet, in some cases 127 00:08:18,639 --> 00:08:20,879 there was something they had to write up. In some cases it was a 128 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:26,399 Google sheet where they'd grasp some data and that would be the assignment component that 129 00:08:26,399 --> 00:08:28,560 they would submit to me. And if it was physical that i'd have been 130 00:08:28,839 --> 00:08:33,320 there was blue colored. I believe that was from my assignments. And as 131 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:35,600 soon as you submit an assignment, UN grabbed your mastery check, which was 132 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,879 a half sheet of paper which was your actual end of lesson assessment, and 133 00:08:39,879 --> 00:08:43,960 you would take that in a special part of the room. That special part 134 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,720 of the room was for match tree checks where you had to stay silent, 135 00:08:46,759 --> 00:08:48,720 you had to do it independently, and they would turn that in. So 136 00:08:48,759 --> 00:08:54,240 I would spot check the assignments and then I would grade the mastery checks closely, 137 00:08:54,279 --> 00:08:56,679 and in some cases I didn't even touch the assignment. So if the 138 00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:01,039 student was consistently getting the assignments correctly and then able to tackle the mastery check, 139 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:03,600 but I would focus on the mastery check, and if they didn't get 140 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:05,960 the mastery check right, then I'd pull their assignment out and I'd say, 141 00:09:07,399 --> 00:09:09,840 let's see what you did here on the assignment. Were you cruising on the 142 00:09:09,879 --> 00:09:11,080 assignment or not? And if you were in, let's try to figure out 143 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:15,320 where this misconception is and let's have a discussion, and then when you're ready, 144 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,039 you're going to go ahead and execute the actual mastery check again with different 145 00:09:18,039 --> 00:09:22,200 sets of questions. So that's what they were turning in and generally speaking, 146 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:26,200 like, you know, if you had a thirty student class period, let's 147 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:28,919 say on average, every kid turned in at least one assignment. If thirty 148 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:35,240 assignments came in that day and another eighteen mastery checks, I generally would get 149 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:41,919 through eighty percent of that grading in class. Okay, that works. Yeah, 150 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:46,600 I like that because I couldn't wrap my brain around around the assessment part, 151 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:48,960 because that's how you give the feedback. You know, we know that 152 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:52,799 timely feedback is really important, but it also sounds like if I'm doing over 153 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:56,679 the shoulder grading, if I'm grading in real time, then I can give 154 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:00,120 that immediate feedback instead of typing it up and the student doesn't even look at 155 00:10:00,159 --> 00:10:03,159 it. That's the most frustrating part is to spend the time and effort to 156 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:07,399 show them what they can improve, but then they would rather just move on 157 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:09,960 and take the sea or something like that. I mean, the students in 158 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:16,159 a modern classroom demand feedback within twenty four hours because they're used to get kind 159 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,159 that way, right. So like when a student is going to turn in 160 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:22,840 their assignment and mastery check, they're expecting to get feedback on that same day, 161 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:24,519 And if they don't get it same day, they know they're going to 162 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:28,519 get in the beginning of the next class period. So there's this real kind 163 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,399 of pressure you put on yourselves. But expectations students have that they're going to 164 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:37,879 hear about their progress and performance almost immediately after they submit something, or within 165 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:43,240 the next day that you return. And what if they don't hit mastery, 166 00:10:43,279 --> 00:10:46,279 even though they've tried several times. At what point do they just get to 167 00:10:46,279 --> 00:10:50,600 move on and say this is the best that I can do? You know, 168 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,960 I don't actually think that that's really ever a scenario that exists. I 169 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:58,879 mean, I think generally speaking, in modern classrooms, we're all very cognizant 170 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,799 the fact that you can demonstrate master in a variety of ways. A student 171 00:11:03,919 --> 00:11:07,440 might have a particular learning disability, or maybe they need to deliver their understanding 172 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:11,840 in an auditory fashion, right or maybe they need to be having a conversation, 173 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:13,600 right, So there's a variety of techniques you can use to assess for 174 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:18,080 mastery outside of one dimension. But I think it's part of our ethos to 175 00:11:18,159 --> 00:11:22,039 say that, you know, if you're in a math class or in English 176 00:11:22,039 --> 00:11:24,720 class, like you need to master how to write a thesis statement, you 177 00:11:24,759 --> 00:11:28,840 need to matchter how to add fractions before you go divide fractions. And I 178 00:11:28,879 --> 00:11:33,600 think in our in our environment, we're pretty committed to that idea. And 179 00:11:35,039 --> 00:11:37,759 I think that means that students will get frustrated sometimes, which we kind of 180 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,159 love. I mean, I love when students would say, just give me 181 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:41,759 the four out of ten, and I'd be like, I don't. I 182 00:11:41,799 --> 00:11:45,559 don't speak that language in this classroom. I don't know what a four out 183 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:48,080 of ten is. What I know is that you haven't understood how to add 184 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,720 fractions, and you're going to keep working on that until you do, So, 185 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,519 you know, I don't think we really ever think that a student is 186 00:11:54,519 --> 00:11:58,360 not going to be able to match the scale. I think the reality is 187 00:11:58,399 --> 00:12:01,519 time can run out on the burst of seas, meaning if you have to 188 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:05,440 master five skills in a week, you can run out of time. Then 189 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:07,639 if you do run out of time, then you may need to spend time 190 00:12:07,639 --> 00:12:13,080 outside of the class period addressing it. I will say we do have a 191 00:12:13,159 --> 00:12:16,919 must should do, aspire to do framework, which means we do isolate within 192 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:22,240 each burst of self pasting what skills are mustus non negotiables, should dous, 193 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:26,240 which we'd like every student of master, and aspired to do, which be 194 00:12:26,279 --> 00:12:28,840 extensions. So certainly students will not master should do as an aspire to do. 195 00:12:30,399 --> 00:12:33,519 But I think it's those mustadudes that we do truly see as non negotiable. 196 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:37,240 And I also think that again goes back to your kind of data point 197 00:12:37,279 --> 00:12:41,399 where if you have a student who really can't master the must do skills, 198 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:45,039 there's a broader conversation that needs to be added with more supports at the school 199 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:46,840 to ask, hey, like, how come this? How come the students 200 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:50,879 really struggling with the most fundamental concepts in my classroom? And how can we 201 00:12:50,919 --> 00:12:56,159 create more supports to get them there? Right? Because I think about students 202 00:12:56,200 --> 00:13:01,519 who are like reading below grade level and so have a difficult time even just 203 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:05,159 accessing the text, and you know, I'll give them scaffolds for that, 204 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,080 But then if on that text, they still, like you said, can't 205 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:13,759 write a thesis statement or somewhearing well. Now for them to practice again, 206 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,720 they have during another text, which I could see as being frustrating for them. 207 00:13:16,799 --> 00:13:22,679 So I guess I would have to think of ways for them to practice 208 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:26,960 without overloading them, you know, the mental load of all of that practice. 209 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,440 But I just know that they're just sometimes some students who after they're just 210 00:13:31,519 --> 00:13:35,480 so used to giving up on themselves. So maybe this is like the way 211 00:13:35,799 --> 00:13:41,440 to teach them to persevere and have some grit, when other teachers would have 212 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:43,639 just said, okay, let's just move on because we have to get through 213 00:13:43,639 --> 00:13:48,200 the next lesson well. And that's why it's super important to engage in lesson 214 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:52,320 classifications because if you're going to have a student who struggles and doesn't have the 215 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:56,399 prerequisite skills, spend three class periods on a scale that one student is working 216 00:13:56,440 --> 00:14:00,639 through in forty minutes, something has to get right. You can't then expect 217 00:14:00,639 --> 00:14:03,919 that a student to work three x the amount of time on every skill. 218 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:07,080 And that's why important it's important to say, if I have ten skills, 219 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,879 only five of these are mustus. And then when that student does master the 220 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:13,559 mustus skill you recognize and sure you master the muscles skill, You're not gonna 221 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:16,879 have to worry about the should news and aspired news. I really want you 222 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,200 to focus on these five months do skills so student that they're getting something in 223 00:14:20,279 --> 00:14:24,240 return, right, because otherwise, I mean in this I've had funny arguments 224 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,679 with Admin about this at times, because it's like, look, if you're 225 00:14:26,679 --> 00:14:31,200 gonna if you're gonna have a group of students who are ranging between a fifth 226 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:35,919 grade English level or reading level and a tenth grade reading level, to suggest 227 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:39,039 that they're all going to learn the exact same amount of skills at the exact 228 00:14:39,039 --> 00:14:41,639 same pace in one hundred eighty one days is just like living in lah lah 229 00:14:41,679 --> 00:14:45,639 Land. That makes absolutely no sense, right, So we as to being 230 00:14:45,679 --> 00:14:50,639 able to differentiate. Understand that some students by master one hundred skills in a 231 00:14:50,759 --> 00:14:54,559 year, where another group of students master seventy five, and that's okay, 232 00:14:54,759 --> 00:14:56,960 Let's not reduce the rigor of the seventy five. Let's just hold them to 233 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,559 the expectation of match and let's just reduce the amount of skills to master. 234 00:15:03,279 --> 00:15:07,120 Okay, Now that works, And then I you know something that also that 235 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:11,159 I love to do in my classroom is have students work collaboratively. I would 236 00:15:11,159 --> 00:15:15,039 say the majority of the time spent in my class is collaborative, but it's 237 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:20,879 all of the students working on the same thing. And so how with your 238 00:15:20,919 --> 00:15:26,759 model, how does collaboration work when everyone is self paced? So keep in 239 00:15:26,799 --> 00:15:31,120 mind we're talking about self pacing at five lessons at once, right, So 240 00:15:31,159 --> 00:15:35,399 students are in the same group of lessons, and they're generally not particularly far 241 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:39,480 apart, right, because they're all in the same week or two weeks worth 242 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:43,879 of content. The second thing is we structure collaboration in two ways. We 243 00:15:43,919 --> 00:15:46,159 have what we call organic collaboration, and then we have what we call plant 244 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:52,120 collaboration. Organic collaboration is the idea that I'm working in a self based learning 245 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:56,200 environment, and there are systems and structures in place such that I work with 246 00:15:56,279 --> 00:16:02,200 my peers to tackle these activities naturally. I often describe it as how you 247 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,320 would learn in college. Frequently, I'd bet a lot of learning in college 248 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,720 collaboratively. But it's not because my professor said, you know, go after 249 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,759 class and like meet at the cafeteria and hang out with your friends. We 250 00:16:11,919 --> 00:16:17,120 chose to do that because it helped us in our mission to learn the content. 251 00:16:17,679 --> 00:16:22,360 Planned collaboration is actually when we say we're doing this activity on Tuesday, 252 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:29,240 everybody's doing it together, and it's going to be a collaboration day or activity. 253 00:16:29,279 --> 00:16:32,679 Those can beat PIDAA seminars, those can be labs, those can be 254 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:37,440 opening discussions. That's planned experiences that are fundamentally designed that way. And then 255 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:41,600 there's a little there's there's examples where you can do a little bit of both, 256 00:16:41,679 --> 00:16:45,399 meaning like the self pacing learning exercise is designed to be done in pairs. 257 00:16:45,799 --> 00:16:48,440 Go find someone who's on the same liston as you are, and go 258 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,519 tackle this together. So there's kind of those two big buckets, and then 259 00:16:52,519 --> 00:16:57,559 there's some overlap and you can get pretty creative with Okay, So I guess 260 00:16:57,559 --> 00:17:03,000 then, rather than students being assigned to a seat permanently, it sounds more 261 00:17:03,079 --> 00:17:07,079 like it's it's more of a flexible structure. Because you're going to be working 262 00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:11,039 over here with someone else, you're always going to be in this seat. 263 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:15,599 Yeah, I don't. There's rarely assigned seats in modern classrooms. So frequently 264 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,839 you'll walk into a modern classroom and they'll be group banks, they'll be you 265 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,960 know, everyone I lesson four is going to be at this table, everyone 266 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,400 I lesson five is from me at this table, or they'll be heterogeneous group 267 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:30,759 bank. So there's but the classrooms actually quite um. The physical environment requires 268 00:17:30,759 --> 00:17:33,400 a lot of movement because you're going to go to certain places for master checks, 269 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:37,680 You're gonna go to certain places to watch instructional videos. So it's intentionally 270 00:17:37,759 --> 00:17:41,640 designed to be a little bit like a little city that students are navigating, 271 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,920 as opposed to one where everyone's in the same spot as they always are. 272 00:17:45,839 --> 00:17:48,759 I could see some teachers bristling at that because it sounds a little bit like 273 00:17:48,799 --> 00:17:53,319 structured chaos when they're used to, you know, especially if you are used 274 00:17:53,319 --> 00:17:57,480 as kids sitting in rows and um, you know, this is where you 275 00:17:57,519 --> 00:18:03,359 sit and it's always going to be like like. So I could see that 276 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,680 it could be frustrating for them. I could see it as a hard transition. 277 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:10,440 Is it supposed to be an easy transition, but it's supposed to be 278 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:11,839 one that's good for them and their students, So totally. I mean, 279 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:18,440 we describe our model as one that's built around controlled chaoss and without controlled chaots, 280 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,079 you get pretty you get pretty restrictive learning environments where a lot of students 281 00:18:22,079 --> 00:18:25,759 are kind of left behind and affect their needs are met. So you got 282 00:18:25,759 --> 00:18:29,680 to be excited for controlled chasts if you're going to do our model, otherwise 283 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:33,400 stay away from it. That's a good point. Yeah, if you're someone 284 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:37,640 who needs it to be completely silent while you talk, this isn't the model 285 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:41,359 for you. It sounds like like oh, absolutely and absolutely so, then 286 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:48,240 let's I just one again objection or one reason why some teachers I could see 287 00:18:48,279 --> 00:18:53,839 being skeptical again is the classroom management portion of it in terms of students staying 288 00:18:53,839 --> 00:18:56,599 focus, Like if you have a student who just comes in, they're like, 289 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,359 I'm not going to do any work today, or they don't really care 290 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:04,880 where they are on the pace. Does that has that been much of an 291 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:10,920 issue when teachers are starting out, or does the model just somehow fix that? 292 00:19:11,559 --> 00:19:17,480 Nothing fixes that? You know. What we often say is whenever someone 293 00:19:17,559 --> 00:19:21,440 poses that question to me, I often pose a question in return, which 294 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:26,000 is what is that student doing in a traditional environment? And usually the answer 295 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:32,119 is nothing different. But you're operating in an environment that's generally built out of 296 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:37,039 compliance, and they might be compliant, but compliant isn't engaged. So I 297 00:19:37,079 --> 00:19:40,720 think one of the things that our model does is it really shines a spotlight 298 00:19:40,839 --> 00:19:48,079 on students that are compliant in traditional environments but actually disengaged, because being compliant 299 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:51,839 doesn't get you anywhere in a modern classroom. You have to get your guided 300 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:55,039 notes out, you have to watch your instructional video, you have to complete 301 00:19:55,039 --> 00:20:00,480 your matchy checks. So I think the reality is is you will suddenly see 302 00:20:00,519 --> 00:20:03,480 the degree with which certain students are actually waiting for learning to just kind of 303 00:20:03,519 --> 00:20:07,359 hit them in the face. And if it doesn't just hit them in the 304 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,519 face, then they're just kind of not going to learn the content. And 305 00:20:10,839 --> 00:20:15,720 at that stage, the only solution is to build strong relationships with those students 306 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,759 and figure out when motivated right, you have no other pathway out right, 307 00:20:19,759 --> 00:20:22,759 And I think our model gives you the time to do that, Whereas in 308 00:20:22,759 --> 00:20:27,279 a traditional setting you're just kind of going to let them slide by being compliant 309 00:20:27,759 --> 00:20:32,000 and move on from one less to the next, one unit to the next, 310 00:20:32,039 --> 00:20:34,400 one school year to the next, not necessarily performing well, maybe just 311 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:38,759 kind of passing, and that's not really doing much for the students in the 312 00:20:38,839 --> 00:20:42,200 long run. In fact, it's probably just widening some of those learning gaps 313 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,960 I could see, especially with my I teach song grade. Of my incoming 314 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:52,920 song graders, they need so much hand holding, and so I have a 315 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,400 feeling it's going to take a lot of training in the beginning for them to 316 00:20:56,519 --> 00:21:02,000 be self reliant because a lot of times I've even told them, if you're 317 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:03,559 absent, go to Google classroom and you can see what we did for the 318 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,039 day, and they still email me, I'm going to be gone today. 319 00:21:07,079 --> 00:21:12,400 What are we doing today? So how do you train these students to actually 320 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:19,279 believe in themselves enough to be self guided? Super super tight structures. Modern 321 00:21:19,319 --> 00:21:26,079 classrooms usually have some of the most intense structures and systems in place, so 322 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,400 you know, if you're going to give students great or freedom over their time, 323 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:33,559 you need to build some really high quality systems such that they know how 324 00:21:33,599 --> 00:21:37,359 to use that time effectively. Our teachers have the most organized learning management systems. 325 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:41,359 They have the most organized kind of lesson been setups in their classrooms. 326 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:47,359 They have some of the most clear routines because ultimately students are going to be 327 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,440 in the driver's sali learning experience, so if you don't have those in place, 328 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,160 they will feed off that kind of chaotic energy and they won't actually use 329 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:57,960 their time effectively. The other thing is, I think it's almost more important 330 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,880 than the content is to actually ensure that the students are building those twenty first 331 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,319 century skills as well. So that's why you got a self paced in short 332 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:08,079 chunks. You got to do frequent check ins, you got to engage in 333 00:22:08,079 --> 00:22:11,519 a series of reflections with students that they're able to say, here's why I 334 00:22:11,599 --> 00:22:15,720 use my time and effectively goss unit. This is why I only mastered three 335 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,920 out of six skills. This is what I'm going to do differently. So 336 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:22,680 it requires patients, it requires really high quality structures, and I think over 337 00:22:22,799 --> 00:22:26,319 time those gains will happen. But one thing I tell folks all the time 338 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:30,119 is some of the best, if not the best, at scale modern classrooms 339 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:37,200 are elementary classrooms. And I think it's a big myth that sort of young 340 00:22:37,279 --> 00:22:41,160 the students aren't developmentally ready to be in control of the learning environment. And 341 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:45,720 we heard that early on in modern classrooms. Oh, this has got to 342 00:22:45,759 --> 00:22:49,440 be just a secondary model. And it's actually the opposite that usually the older 343 00:22:49,519 --> 00:22:53,240 the student, the more they're used to these highly rigid learning environments and the 344 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:59,319 more of a change in style it is. You walk into a second grade 345 00:22:59,319 --> 00:23:02,079 classroom that's doing a modern claps rim and you'll be shocked. I mean, 346 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,880 these students are like a little city and they're driving their own learning and they 347 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,960 know it to do next. And that's because elementary teachers are some of the 348 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:14,839 most effective at building systems and structures. But also those students haven't had the 349 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:18,039 kind of self direction kind of weaned out of right. It's like, over 350 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:23,519 time we turned war into robots and less into self directed leartners, which for 351 00:23:23,559 --> 00:23:30,000 folks feels like the opposite pattern you would expect that. It's the reality. 352 00:23:30,839 --> 00:23:34,240 That's actually a big complaint about public schools in general, that they are being 353 00:23:34,319 --> 00:23:40,319 run like factories anyway, both students and parents, you know, they complain 354 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:44,400 that their needs aren't being met or school is boring, and it sounds like 355 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:51,079 this. It's it's a huge like mental shift, for sure, but this 356 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:56,039 could be what cures education, especially since there's so many teachers not wanting to 357 00:23:56,079 --> 00:24:00,119 go into education anymore and so many teachers quitting. That's right, that's right. 358 00:24:00,279 --> 00:24:06,079 It's a core way that we think about how you change some of the 359 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:10,519 patterns of education that we're design out of convenience and not what's best for students. 360 00:24:10,519 --> 00:24:11,799 And I think we know that that I've been working and I think frankly, 361 00:24:11,799 --> 00:24:15,160 the big technology push is also proving it right. Students are starting to 362 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,480 realize, like, why do I have to sit here and wait for you 363 00:24:18,519 --> 00:24:21,759 to tell me this when I can just open up a computer and find the 364 00:24:21,799 --> 00:24:26,839 information, most specially with AI too. We gotta be ready for that. 365 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:32,000 So one thing I was thinking, because you had to mention that you use 366 00:24:32,079 --> 00:24:37,160 paper, and I met a school that's completely one to one, what would 367 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:42,759 you say is the minimum technology set up for this to run smoothly? I 368 00:24:42,759 --> 00:24:45,400 mean, there's folks who do it in a really low tech environment, but 369 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,359 generally speaking, I'd say a two to one. And it doesn't mean that 370 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:52,160 the kids need to take the devices home with them, but generally speaking, 371 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:56,799 you probably want a device for every two students. I mean, students are 372 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,640 not spending that much time on computer screens. I think a pretty small amount 373 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:06,960 of time frequently on computer science unless the activity is you know, on the 374 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:11,359 computer, because the instructional videos should be nine minutes or under, ideally six, 375 00:25:11,039 --> 00:25:15,640 so you know, your These instructional videos are very bite size, so 376 00:25:15,839 --> 00:25:18,319 two to one usually gets gets you what you need. Um, you know, 377 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:22,200 one to one's ideal, But isn't is that what everyone has access to? 378 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,680 Okay, that's good to do, because I yeah, with the video 379 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:30,400 component, I mean, we can assume that we can flip the classroom completely 380 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,960 and have students watch the videos at home. But I'm not a believer in 381 00:25:34,039 --> 00:25:41,279 giving homework anyway, So I think that it's kind of a waste of time 382 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:45,400 to an energy to get upset when students don't do homework because I can't control 383 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,599 what happens the minute that they walk out of my door. So I just 384 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,440 wanted to see how other teachers are doing this if they don't have a device 385 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,480 for every student. Yeah, I mean, the expectation is not that assumes 386 00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,119 to this work at oh and in fact, it's usually a pretty clear expectation 387 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,319 that the only time you have homework is when you're not on pace. So 388 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:07,200 it creates this nice structor where it's if you're not using your time, it's 389 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,480 actually the a if stuffs you do, but if you're using your time effectively, 390 00:26:10,599 --> 00:26:15,000 you don't. Yeah. Now I wanted to let the audience know that 391 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:21,319 you guys have a Facebook group. Then I've been in very very helpful Facebook 392 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:25,920 group. Everyone is sharing resources. You had mentioned the structures, and there 393 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:30,480 people are sharing screenshots of how their Google classroom is set up, or they're 394 00:26:30,559 --> 00:26:37,440 pacing guys, or they're tracking you know, checkers. It's amazing how collaborative 395 00:26:37,519 --> 00:26:41,880 your community is. I mean, they're cool. Also, oh go ahead. 396 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,000 I mean, we describe ourselves as a movement, so I always say, 397 00:26:45,039 --> 00:26:48,519 like, the best people to talk to our teachers. So that Facebook 398 00:26:48,519 --> 00:26:51,880 groups one of my favorite things that we have. We never intended it to 399 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,200 be some big thing. We just create a group and suddenly thousands of teachers 400 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,079 are in there. So I agree, it's like the coolest part about our 401 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,000 work is that little Facebook which is not. Yeah, as soon as I 402 00:27:00,079 --> 00:27:04,400 joined, I was just bombarded with all of these posts of people just sharing, 403 00:27:04,519 --> 00:27:10,759 I mean just sharing everything, asking questions, no judgment. And then 404 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:17,480 also I've been through the course and the course itself. Considering that you're offering 405 00:27:17,519 --> 00:27:22,000 a free course, it's very thorough. I like the fact that you're modeling 406 00:27:22,039 --> 00:27:25,480 how the lessons are supposed to be in terms of length and the resources that 407 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:30,680 accompany it. How did this course come about? How came you're offering it 408 00:27:30,759 --> 00:27:37,000 for free when you could easily be charging for this. Well, I mean 409 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,400 we're a nonprofit, so I mean to start. You know, the organization 410 00:27:40,599 --> 00:27:44,319 was always built as a nonprofit, and it was built through the lens of 411 00:27:45,279 --> 00:27:51,160 we will never hide content from educators, part of the ethos of our organization. 412 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,400 Like, it's hard enough to be a teacher. It's the hardest thing 413 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,480 I've ever done. I've been leading the Modern Classrooms project for over five years 414 00:27:56,559 --> 00:28:00,480 now, the organization's grown, They've trained thousands of teacher. There's nothing it 415 00:28:00,519 --> 00:28:04,559 was harder than trying to figure out how to meet thirty highly diverse students with 416 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:10,079 very very different needs in a sixteen minute class period one hundred eighty days the 417 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,759 year. So I don't think we need to be holding very valuable resources back 418 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,279 from educators. They should have everything that could possibly need, so, you 419 00:28:18,319 --> 00:28:21,079 know, the things we charge for the Modern Classrooms or when we actually have 420 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:22,920 to use human time, which, by the way, that the people who 421 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:27,079 do to training our teachers themselves, they're usually teach our mentors. So the 422 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:32,240 course was just an idea that my co owner and I had and we realized 423 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,759 people wanted this, we thought, well, why don't we just create a 424 00:28:34,799 --> 00:28:38,359 place where any educator can learn the model and a self based format start building 425 00:28:38,359 --> 00:28:42,759 it out. So it's where I send everybody to go first. We do 426 00:28:42,839 --> 00:28:48,160 have a much more structured mentorship program that has a cost associated with it, 427 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:52,880 and that's kind of how we partner schools and districts. But that free course 428 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,759 has ever. There is not a sales everyone. There's not a hidden template 429 00:28:56,839 --> 00:29:00,720 or resource of the modern class from the project where if you pays five blocks, 430 00:29:00,759 --> 00:29:04,000 suddenly at old Pier doesn't exist. Everything's in that free course. Well, 431 00:29:04,079 --> 00:29:10,119 especially when you pair that free course with the free Facebook group, kind 432 00:29:10,119 --> 00:29:12,559 of got it all in there because you also do have some built in guidance 433 00:29:12,559 --> 00:29:18,400 in there from everyone helping each other out totally. There's a lot of really 434 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,799 cool staff you can learn from the free course and from the people in the 435 00:29:21,839 --> 00:29:26,599 community. And what I mean on a personal note, this is something that 436 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,480 I've been wanting to do. This model is something that I've been wanting to 437 00:29:29,519 --> 00:29:32,160 do for over a decade, but I couldn't wrap my brain around it. 438 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:37,720 And I love that your organization has systemized it. It answers you know, 439 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:41,960 the ethos of it and wrapping your brain around how it actually works in the 440 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:48,599 classroom implementation strategies. You know, some of the objections that people might have. 441 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,000 It addresses those as well, and it also models it, which I 442 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:56,319 think is great because I love the module on how to actually just create the 443 00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:00,920 videos and how easy it is to just pop in there make a video and 444 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,240 it doesn't have to be polish. You know, there's some teachers who are 445 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,079 afraid that, you know, students are going to make fun of me if 446 00:30:06,079 --> 00:30:07,240 I make a video, And in my mind, I'm like, they're not 447 00:30:07,319 --> 00:30:11,480 making fun of you anywhere than they would in class because that's just how kids 448 00:30:11,519 --> 00:30:15,279 work. So does it really matter. No, they're not going to necessarily 449 00:30:15,319 --> 00:30:18,319 screenshot your phineas and posted on TikTok. They don't got time for that. 450 00:30:18,519 --> 00:30:23,880 So I really appreciate what you guys are doing, and I'm hoping that more 451 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:30,119 teachers will start to embrace this idea of not having to control everything in a 452 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:34,240 classroom. I totally agree. And the one thing I remind everyone is the 453 00:30:34,279 --> 00:30:38,000 model is designed to be customizable, so make it your own, like you 454 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:42,839 don't need to go in teachers are rule followers, it's so fascinating. It's 455 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:47,440 so fascinating. So I always tell the story of when before we had the 456 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,359 free course, we were a little fellowship in DC and we trained our first 457 00:30:49,359 --> 00:30:53,079 aid educators and right when the school year started, I got calls from them 458 00:30:53,079 --> 00:30:56,400 saying, am I allowed to talk at the front of the room? Like? 459 00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:00,039 Am I allowed to do this? And I remember thinking like if I 460 00:30:59,759 --> 00:31:03,559 said no, would you listen? Right? Like? So, um, 461 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,119 what I'd tell every educator out there is like there's some gold in that course, 462 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:08,920 but you don't have to use every single component of it. You don't 463 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,559 have to use every template, and you can certainly make it your own. 464 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:18,079 And that's what we want, Like, we believe educators are the most important 465 00:31:18,119 --> 00:31:21,279 people to invest in in K twelve education if we want to see long term 466 00:31:21,359 --> 00:31:23,920 change, and this is just an avidant to do that. Well, thank 467 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:30,319 you so much for taking the time to share this to educators, especially future 468 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,240 and new educators. Where can they find you if they want more information? 469 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,440 Want to stock to online? Yeah, I mean I have like a LinkedIn 470 00:31:37,559 --> 00:31:41,559 and a Twitter account, but I think what's more important is the organization. 471 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:48,440 So all of our social media accounts on modern classrooms are Modern class rojpr o 472 00:31:48,759 --> 00:31:52,119 J. But you go to our website Modern Classrooms dot org, just make 473 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:56,440 sure you put a NASS on it. Modern Classrooms. That's our website, 474 00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:00,200 and the free course is learned Modern Classrooms dot Org and in those are the 475 00:32:00,279 --> 00:32:01,319 best places to go. I mean, I think we have enough of the 476 00:32:01,359 --> 00:32:05,559 digital footprint now that if you just kind of search us, you'll be able 477 00:32:05,599 --> 00:32:07,279 to see all those things. But those are the two best spots to go 478 00:32:07,359 --> 00:32:10,920 to really dig in and learn our work, okay, And I'll be sure 479 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,880 to post the links so you guys can find those easily. So what do 480 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:15,920 you think? Are you guys? In? Are you going to try this 481 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,839 out with me? Let me know. You can send me an email at 482 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,359 Kim at Teachers need Teachers dot com and let me know if you have any 483 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:27,759 reservations and things that you're wondering about in terms of implementation. Thanks for hanging 484 00:32:27,799 --> 00:32:30,480 out with me to day, you guys, and I will see you next time.