Hey, it's Bob Thickett. We are on our way to the legendary Broken
Spoke. Come on, let's get out of the truck and head inside.
And damn you're proud of it. Come on, let's go inside. Getting
ready for another tale from the Broken Spoke. Did you enjoy part one of
our conversation with Walt Wilkins. Let's get back to the conversation. Here's part
two. Walt Wilkins on Tails and the Broken Spoke. Ye left movie business
for soft business. Well it wasn't movie business. I just found the locations,
you know, for any famous locations that we must have any movies like
what Yeah, we're doing a deep dive into this. Well, okay,
what people ask you about? And it's I kind of thought it would be
one of the two or three movies, right at least she got a credit,
you know, they always think the film commission. But I found all
the just about all of the locations for days to confused. Was going to
ask you about that one. Yeah, in Austin. It took a day
and a half and uh, their their location scout for the movie company for
Link Link Letter was. Her name was Katie Coconuts and she was a location
scout private and then we were the We would work with them. We because
it. I mean, look that that script was all set in seventy seven
and I was sixteen and seventy seven, and I think NK letters from Huntsville,
I think, but he wanted to you know, Austin knew it all
read the script. It was like, oh, man, had it all
done. We had it done in a day and a half. That's so
good. And then we went and shot pool and drank beer. There's there's
still people that come to Houston and they will they will look for the science
for that movie was filmed. I mean we had a program director did that.
He was so oh I found where they felt part of days and confused.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, top notch. The roller used to be
our across the from roller Rink was and became the pool hall there, uh
Markana theaters in it and yeah back behind it on Hancock where I grew up.
They were just looking for a hideaway parking lot. I said, I
know what, it was fun pretty that's a big movie. Any other movies,
Yeah, I did a lot on Leap of Faith. That was a
major movie with Steve and John Dravolta, right, Yes, that was all
over Texas, the Panhandle. Yeah, it was just the mostly in the
Panhandle and I we found he and their guy and I we worked for two
weeks solid. Did you ever get credits from any of these movie things?
I can't remember. One of them did actually say a name but on the
credits, but now I can't remember which one it was. But you know,
maybe my job was I read they sent the script this is back for
you were sending pictures via email, you would I put together printed pictures and
folders, take them together for you know, go to Fox Photo or Photo
Matts, Fox Photo. We had them all. We had to count there
did it all. I'll send them overnight. Then they'd send if they want,
you know, and I'd be honest. I'd say this Ken, I
don't know a place in Texas it really fits this. But sma Ath,
you know, this was in the early nineties. Everyone wanted to come to
Auctice. They were looking for reasons to come to Texas, and we were.
Texas was the number three market at the time. Well, but also
it was like what I was telling people about doing Sessions, recording Sessions's right
to work State Yep, no union cards, right, you can you can
do a session here for half the cost, yes, and have and the
pickers are just as great, and same thing with movie completely. We had
a great crew and it was an open shop which really helped, especially with
teamsters with the drivers and stuff. So yeah, it was it was really
rocking. It was a fun time. I mean it was every week.
I was somewhere around the state locations. So you're up in Nashville are you
writing for BMG the whole time? I wrote for BMG for five years.
Okay, you're there a good while, yeah, and then seven years with
CURB and then after that I think had three independent deals too. Okay,
and uh, when so when did you and Tina get married? Is up
there or here? Well? We met there pretty early on Chip Young and
I. He would take me to lunch three days a week at the Sammy
Bees, where she was the daytime bartender. We sat at the bar,
ate soup because I was taught always take the cheapest thing on the menu when
you're someone's buying your lunch, and uh, second cheapest, That's what I
was. And I had soup, you know, and uh and bread,
lots of bread and met Tina there and then uh, we actually got married
in New Mexico because we're both Westerners, so but we got married while we
lived in Nashville, and Luke was born there too. So when when you
come back here, it's just, uh, when I met what did we
meet? Like in six something like that? Oh? Four four? Well
we moved back. I bet we we probably got together in O five.
Yeah, right, because well because I'm well, I remember meeting you at
that thing at b M I at Bruce and Bill carteron I were picking and
you and Liz came out. Uh, and that's where I remember meeting,
because that was in Nashville. That yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
that's where we met. And uh and I just you know, and it
was just like I'd heard your name and I'd heard your songs, and it
was just like and just like anybody else, like from the first what Wilkins
song you hear? You're a huge Walt Wilkins fan, and and Oglesby would
send me a lot of your stuff too, and uh, just great songs.
I forget which ones you cut, I forget which songs do what I
said, I forget which songs you cut of mine? That was a joke.
You don't need songs. That was in Nashville joke, right, it's
camera, yes, record, I know that's a joke. Look the fact
that you've recorded easily a half dozen of things we've written together and I've not
yet recorded something. It has more to do with my recording projects and quality
of the world. I know that you just keep plugging away and you'll get
there. You'll get a money Warden cut. It's always good to have a
goal. I do want a many Warden cut. You know what Brandy and
I were talking, Matt, Uh, I think in the next batch,
I think the dangerous few are going to start doing only When I Breathe.
That's a good song. That was one of our best songs, one of
our best sarios. And Uh, well that you know we have the songs
called only when I Breathe. Brilliant song and it has been on the last
round of getting cut. I didn't realize you guys had written together before.
Yeah, man, we we were in some cool songs. One than I
do all the time that we gave different titles to it, but it's one
of my favorite songs, Farm to Market Romance. I call it farm the
Market romance. I call it lone Star lullabye. Great. Every every wagoneer's
gig, we pick it good. That's one of my fai. That's a
great It was our drummer's favorite song. Rayroz. That's a great song.
Yeah. Uh off September nine and it just laging love. Yeah, great
song. There's a couple of people around the state who sing soft September Night.
Great song. I could never pull it off completely from me, but
I love that song. It's great. You cut it great. But your
farm to market romes did a great version of I just you know, it's
like writing with Walt Wilkins, like manis a great writer. You know.
Coming down here, I was thinking about how I mean. I I just
I think money is amazing. It's work ethic, his ethic, completely ethical
dude, hard worker, so talented. Uh. I just I just think
Moni's fantastic, positive, always positive. Yeah that's the bad money. It's
all good about two minutes every afternoon. Oh yeah, so funny that I'm
down here today and uh and Brandy said, uh, You're not going to
say that, are you, because you sound like an asshole? And I
said, well, no, I wouldn't say it, but of course now
I'm going to say it. It's like for me, it is the rare
I've set at tables with a lot of songwriters, and it is the rare
table that I sit with a songwriter where I'm not the best songwriter at that
table. Today is not one of those days. Today, it's a tie
as brilliant. I mean, it's like trains I've missed, we could do
a whole hours, one of my favorite songs. It's one of my favorite
songs, songs, favorite song. Yeah, brilliant. It's been a it's
been as a great life. Well that is poetry. Well yeah, it
really mean the song. And I have a song called It's a brilliant song.
But you know, it's wild. It's like because I've known Walt's songs
for I don't know, twenty years. I reckon that'd be about right,
Yeah, And we've been writing together for fifteen years, you know, a
long time, just such great songs. And it's wild that as long as
you've been doing it, you've been doing it in a while, You've had
so much success, you have so many people that love your songs, and
I have my favorites. You know these are my Walt Wilkins favorites, and
does my Walt Wilkins playlist and dad and then rarely does a writer that's been
doing it that long that consistently for me anyway, because I fall in love
with songs and then I get caught up and that those are my favorites.
But there is a to me, a new song of Waltz called dogs Man.
It's my favorite Walt Wilkins song of all time. I've heard that one.
Ah, it's well. In fact, Ron Flynn is mixing my new
record right now, so is that on it. Did one of my songs
get bumped for dogs Yeah? No, outside, Yeah, there won't be
a mighty all your fear of success rising its ugly head once again. This
song dogs Man is if it doesn't make you cry, you've been dead for
two days. It's just about dogs. It's it's literally, it's about the
Sistine chap is about God. It's about dog. It is that it's it
mentions the dog I grew up with, and and but it was inspired by
a friend of mine, Plain Lukenbach, a year ago, year and a
half ago, which I played the first Sunday's Money's Done it several times over
the years with them had men ass in a while. It's weird you played
last year and the one of my dear friends came up afterwards and her dog
had run off, and she'd been up all night putting the posters up and
all that around, dripping well out Uh where would you say the barbecue salt
lick out there? Anyway, she showed up at Luke and Box just to
you know, from a leaf from and and and the dog in fact never
came back, but she was crying and and uh and and I was she's
younger, and I've always She's I've always. I was thinking about what to
say, and all I could say was Lindan, dogs man, I'm sorry,
and the and then and then the songwriter report of my brain went,
I would comfort you, but I have to go. Not a bad title,
not a bad title, dogs man, I'm sorry about your dog and
everything, but I got to go. Yeah. So I left the next
day for a tour all down the East coast, and uh, I remember
I started it in Connecticut or somewhere like that, and then finished in Atlanta.
Did you write it like on the like on the plane or were you
just as you were driving over the whole truth. I remember how I finished
it. Uh. I was in Atlanta steaming with my best friend Tina,
and Luke flew out to Atlanta so we could go to an Astro's Braves game
and and that morning Tina was asleep. It was early in the morning.
I woke up and went and the rest of the I was kind of stuck,
you know, And it all just came to me that morning. Yeah,
I've never been stuck right in so, Yeah, it sounds awful.
You get stuck all the time like everyone. So you said that you played
Luke and Bach once a month. I've done it. I've done it.
What I do is the first Sunday of every month. I've done it for
fifteen years. Fantastic, You've got I want to get it. And Luke
and Bach has changed a lot in the past fifteen years. It has more
commercial now, right, well, I think for considering fifteen years, it
hasn't changed a lot. And the buildings now that I'm talking about, Yeah,
and the changes they made are good. Like restrooms. According to my
wife and every female I've ever known that's been in Lukenbog for more than two
hours, they're grateful for the new restrooms. There's a new gift shop,
which is cool. Well, you know the statue of the statue of Jerry
Joe. Yeah, it's nice. I mean, these are all nice things
that are kind of a knowledge. It's cultural. But I remember as a
kid the first time I went there. I went in seventy eight. There
was a kid. There was nothing there except two thousand other people to see
where Willie and Whaling were. My first was seventy five. My dad stopped
by there when I was fourteen, and I remember, you know, walking
around and you know, hippie guys playing guitar, and you know the girls
in nineteen seventy five with the long hair and the little shorts and it's fantastic.
And I was like this, this might be from me. My dad
was in the Air Force. I was like this, I might like this
side of the river. Yeah. Yeah, that line is they get what
change your day? What is the line? A dog can change your day?
And the time it takes to lick your face. That's so great.
That's that's brilliant. Man. Go I'll tell you this. You might as
someone who makes records. I drawn and I Ron Flint and I We tried
several ways to record that, including I said, well, let's do it
like a sixties Nashville with the vibes, maybe strings, Let's do it like
that. Let's listen. So we listened to Tom t Hall songs and we
were thinking about tried that, tried several ways, until finally we just went
I got the painted guitar, which I don't record with a lot, and
we got in a booth, did it, and then scrappy Jed put another
guitar on it. And that's that's the version well called the record. The
song is the star. It's not a production thing, you know, I
mean really, and that I would think going much beyond that started getting another
way, easy way to suck it up, Yeah, because that just that's
and it's such a that's one of the best songs I've ever heard. Oh
I'm coming up, oh whenever I pick him up from the duplicators. That's
how I don't do a big release or anything, so I would I think
I'll have them at the end of sometime in August. And we know that
you play a lot at the Saxon Pub just down there Wednesday night today to
club nights. That's again that's around fifteen years now. It's fantastic doing well
these steady jobs. It's pretty good, it is. It's nice to have
anchors like that, same crowd all the time that comes in the face.
I got some that are the same, but people come from every week.
I'll say where are you from? And there are people from all over the
country every Wednesday, and there are people from Europe every every other Wednesday.
To make you feel great, Oh, it's fantastic. You'll ask them,
how did you hear about it? People said, well, someone said I
needed to come see you play. You know, so that means word of
mouth, and that's a great feeling. We've got friends from DC that came
in for the eclipse and they saw Grissom down in Saxon on Tuesday, and
then they saw that it was Walt Wilkins on Wednesdays and they it was would
have been three thousand dollars for them to change their ticket, and they well,
we can't do that. But they went, you have David Grissom on
it every Tuesday, and what Wilkins every Wednesday? They had no idea you
were there on Wednesdays, but now they do. In their next trip to
Austin will be the anchor is coming to see you at the Saxon. I
appreciate it. It's a great gig. It's a great gig. They're great.
It's a great family. It's like playing Luke and Bach. You get
to be part of the culture there after that many years and you know,
the same people own Lukenbach, Hondos, people daughters and I'm one of the
daughters and a grandson, and then the Abeles family at the Saxon. It's
neat to be part of those school years now, like like on your regular
gigs, like at the Lukenbox first Sunday every Wednesday, do you have like
because people come in from all over They'll want do they like email you ahead
of time, like would you please play this sometime? No with you?
Sorry, I'd love last Yeah uh yeah, I yes, We I do
my best. If it's something I just don't play anymore, if I have
time to learn it great if I don't. But what's great about the Saxon
And it's always been this way. So we started with a mister Carrols for
years and then I played acoustic with Ron for about a year and then we
started picking up players. I said, let me, this is a great
time to ask people I know that I never get to play with, like
Scrapy judd Man. I was, all right, it's playing Brett Da.
I mean all sorts of musicians in this town that I never that i'd see
around and never we call them. And now it's kind of settling into a
fourth piece that that we just recorded with. So uh and it's fun.
I don't make a set list. I just start songs and really yeah,
really yeah, it's all organic. I like that it is. I just
have never not been on stage with a set list. I know. Well,
you it's one of the things. Uh, you know, you always
look the part. You look great. That's who you are, you look
I mean you always You've never don't look great. And then I always like
showed to his house to write flip flops and haven't even looked in. He
always dresses for radio and the address radio as I am today. And uh,
but I love that about money. He's a show I mean, it's
a great show man. You're always prepared. Your shows are right on.
But my shows are scruffyer, just like mine. I have done this since
I was fourteen, so there's really no would you be lost without a set
list. Yeah, but it's the pacing of it, you know, because
it's not just a list of songs that also go Okay, I'm gonna want
to go straight into these three and then take a second. It's a little
bit different because here, like it's a dance hall with Walt, you're sitting
there, you're listening, you're sitting down, you're getting involved in the performance.
Here, well, I will have him. I mean, I do
make set lists for like when festivals. Sure, well yeah, when the
band needs to know and you've got forty five minutes and not forty six,
right exactly. But like, like I know, like when I do like
a writer's night where we're doing like an in the round, people call them
song swaps. I hate that term. It's I don't know, it sounds
small ball to me. I don't know why, but I've never loved that
term either. I think it's because we came from Davidson County and it was
in the rounds. I reckon they call them instead of guitar pools song swaps.
Well, Titar knowings his guitar pools anymore, which is really the best
thing. A guitar pool there's one guitar and passed it around and you tried
it. That was the whole time as a phrase came from. He had
to pull it out of the other writer's hands. That's where a guitar pool
came from. But yeah, I'll have a song list and not a set
list because it changes. Because sometimes you'll be on a on a in the
round or a guitar pool and uh, some guy, you're gonna do a
waltz next, and then the guys in front of you do two waltz.
Is you can't do that? Or or lyrically they start something you want to
keep that kind of thing going right, or somebody really like you're doing it
with walt and it's just it's so intimidating. They're they're pummeling you, and
you go, okay, I'm gonna letter break this out right now, because
you don't want to get your ass kicked, and sometimes you don't want to
be the ass kicker, and you kind of down shift so it doesn't look
like you're beating up a kid. You know, I cannot see you beating
up any I know exactly what you're talking about. And you're the kindness of
your heart You're like, I cannot, I can't. I can't do that.
I'm not breaking out just to hear your voice in front of this kid.
I saw a guy who at the time was a Texas music entity,
a cat he was similar to be a star, and I felt so bad
for him that he had to follow me every time. Sure that the last
song I did, yeah, because I was like, I was watching him
deflate, and I'm like, I don't want to do that to anyone.
Did he thank you afterwards or anything like? No, I don't think if
he had a clue then he wouldn't have let on. He but he looks
stricken. And it wasn't just me. There were two other people in this
round. I felt bad for him. The greatest example of that. And
it was so beautiful and and uh, the humility of it, the honesty
of it. We were at an Austin City limbs deal and it was Rodney
crow loud of it and Willie Nelson and and how it started it was wild
and Willie than Rodney, and that was how the end the round went.
And after about the third round, and this is Rodney crow Man and granted
he was doing stuff off his latest record, he wouldn't do do until I
can gain control again, and you know, leaving Louisiana and all that stuff.
But anyway, after about the third round, he just stopped and he
goes, you know, I'm not used to getting my ass kicken and in
the round. I saw Rodney a few weeks ago and he broke out to
like, that's that's great, but I but I am Rodney Crow. Just
to remind you, did you see him with Sam Baker? Yes, Sam
Baker is another guy's gonna talk to you about. I want to sit down
with Sam. Do it? Because Sam on Sunday, he and I played
to swap songs. Does he live? Luke and Buck? I got a
shower from Rodney, so I know that it's a five one to Rodney produced
his new record and it's all spoken words. It's beautiful, it's incredible.
Really, Yeah, we're gonna have We're gonna have Sam this summer. It'll
take a breath away. Yeah, Sam and I have a long history.
I produced Sam's first two records. I never knew that. Yeah, in
the and uh and uh, the ones that got him started in Europe.
And yeah, I love him. So what's the connection with Sam and Bill.
Uh. Yes, Bill Warrel, it was a great guy. We
lost a couple of years ago. Were they really years ago? Can you
believe it? Three years ago? Did they really discover that sculpture that Bill
drew all the time. I don't think Sam was on that trip, but
when he saw the shaman k Payne, Yes, yes, because I had
heard that Sam was on the trip with him. I didn't know. I
thought they went on a lot of trips together. I don't think Sam was
on that particular trip. But here's an interesting thing. We've already talking about
J Boy Jay Boys from Colorado City, Texas. That's where my dad grew
up, from Sweetwater al right, yeah, yeah, cool. No one's
ever said that thirty miles from That's right. No one's ever said I'm from
Sweetwater. Cool. Oh, I would, I'd moved to West Texas.
I'm going tomorrow. You want to go? If I could? I would.
I love driving West Texas. About the family and the food. So
yeah. So anyway, Worrel. When I met Warrel, he said Wilkins,
and I said, yes, I'm c A's son. He goes,
Sonny, Sonny is how my dad was known in the little town. And
uh, so that's how I got in with Warrel immediately. Immediately, he
was just a great guy. He was he felt like a family member within
five minutes of talking to the guy. He had a huge impact on me
on Sam and also Uh and on Darden, which I didn't know until after.
I known Darden a few years and Worrel's name came up and he's like,
you know, we didn't bring that up with Dark. I wish I
hadn't known that. I didn't know anybody I ever have a big impact on
Darden other than Darten. I played one time playing his show with Moni and
Darden. I asked him both to play Lukenbach one day and it was cold,
we went to the dance hall. I didn't know they had such a
history together. I had never laughed in front of people so much mercy.
They're merciless to each other. Yeah, but you know what, I hadn't
talked to Darden in years. I didn't want to interrupt him. He's a
he is like you. He's brilliant and hard working and worl Yeah. I
spent a lot of time out at Warls and he gave me my mantra and
my mantra when I was about forty two or three and had come to time
I was getting dejected, you know, after losing a couple of singles in
Nashville and stuff. And I said. We were bouncing around drinking beer out
at his place and the Mace on Thelanto River in Mason County, and I
said, what, how do you when you get dejected? He said,
all right, I'll tell you something that I heard when I was got dejected,
and it was keep creating, keep risking, keep creating, keep risking.
That's what I live by. Yeah. I like that. You know,
to make a record these days is a risk. You're you're not going
to make the money back, but you keep creating. Why because you're supposed
to. And that's what I tell people all the time, is like,
only do this. If you can't not right, If you can do something
else, then do it. But if you can't, not then that's God
talking to you. And that's you know, And I think I agree.
Talent is his gift to us, and what we do with it is our
gift back to him. Yes. Yeah, And ultimately, when we were
talking about Nashville, yeah, I left this life. I liked, liked
I loved this life in Austin, thirty years old, in the town I
grew up in. I'd already been away a couple of times but had come
back. And but I would have an eye twitch. This is true.
And later on was like, that's stress. And the stress was I was
starting to write these songs, starting to play them, learning how to play
them here in town, and uh, this is what I wanted to do.
My heroes as a kid. Besides a couple of athletes were the songwriters.
Yeah, my folks were cool. Drop me off to see Willis Sallin
and and and and Framolds. Those are my two favorites. And Murphy's record
Cosmic Cowboy Souvenir was my was the record that and then record by Michael Nesmith
split my I always say it split my head open. I never recovered,
I mean once, you know. It was country like I grew up with,
but it was you know, the stuff, and it was all happening
round here at where we lived, where we grew up. You know,
felt really lucky to be you were a kid of the seventies. Yes,
South Austin, North Austin what was then North Austin, Far north As then
Yeah, now in the middle of town. I grew up well East Austin
for three years and then we moved to uh right over in the like Mopack
and forty fifth forty fifth. I grew up near McCallum, over by the
cemetery, but we were Anderson High School was new, the new Anderson High
School, and I was busted up there got you what great time. I
was awesome. And that's when that's when Austin was just happening. Like you
mentioned from hos fromost was just amazing. He was the best storyteller. He
was just I'm sure I just sat there like this mouth of Gabe everything.
Yeah, And I never I didn't. The only time I got to meet
him was after the stroke. I never really Yeah, I got to,
you know, hang out with Willis a little bit and play some but uh
Framwinson never really had got to meet. But man, he had a he
was he was so special. I don't know Willis Harley at all, but
I knew from Holts Real he was the first. He was actually the first
hit maker I ever met. I was eleven, yeah, and he was
just you know, and I just told him some reason, I said,
I want to be a songwriter. It's eleven years old, and he just
busted out laughing in such a great way, and he said, don't let
anybody talk you out of it. That's a good manto, right, so
great eleven years old, that's fantastic. And joining our conversation with Walt wilkins
On tells Broken Spoke one more part Part three drops next week and we're gonna
find out why Walt left Nashville to come back to Austin. Tals the Broken
Spoke again. Thank you for listening. Hope you enjoy the conversations. Tales
from the Broken Spoke is recorded live at The Broken Spoke in Austin, Texas,
hosted by Country Radio Hall of Fame broadcaster Bod Pickett and Monty Warden,
recorded mixed down and produced by Mike Rivera