If you ask me what the secret of the good marriage is, treat each
other like strangers. Do this and you will have the greatest marriage in the
world. If you're hitting it off right, it becomes fun. Did you
see your fun side early on? No? I wasn't so, I wasn't
so much fun then, Okay, now you become more fun with time.
Absolutely, there's no way for me to go out and find the husband.
There's no way for the boys to find a wife on their own. So
we trust our parents. Seems to be nerve wracking for a parent to make
decisions for their children. We're not the big decision makers. Your marriage was
arranged, right? No? No, no, no, what happened?
We have arranged meetings, but not arranged marriages. About six months ago I
introduced you all to Pearl, a proud and vibrant Hasidic Jewish matriarch, housewife,
mother, grandmother, and Greek grandmother of the somethmore Hasidic sect. What
I thought at first was going to be a casual look at her Hasidic home
turned into so much more as she brought us, say, not just into
or home, but also into her entire world and her values. And I
think in the process she touched many hearts. And while there was a lot
we talked about in that conversation, there was so much we hadn't discussed.
And so I am so glad that Pearl agreed to speak with me again on
some very big topics, and this conversation I'm again breaking up in two parts,
and today I present you with part one, my discussion with Pearl on
how marriages are arranged or not arranged in the Hasidic community. So much of
Pearl's faith system was fascinating to me, but she wanted me to emphasize that
she comes from the perspective not of a community authority, not of a sanctioned
spokesperson, but rather a simple housewife, a lay person whose perspect active comes
not only from someone who was raised in the community, but also who spent
her entire life reading and teaching herself and continuing to learn and to grow.
Pearl is a saltomore Hasidic woman who is a grandmother and a matriarch of a
big family. And Pearl helped me out how do we introduce her? And
I'm a great grandmother and a great grandmother and a friend and a friend.
Yes, thank you and she has been so generous has to agree to talk
to me again about some big topics. We are going to talk today about
arranged marriages, about modesty in women's clothing, and lastly, a topic that
affects us both personally, leaving the faith or as it's called OTD, off
the dereh or off the PATHI yeah, the pious path. Frieda, do
you know that I'm also OTD? You're also OTD. I'm over the diet
of the time, I'm on the of the diet. Well, it's a
honiker right now. So we're all on of the diet. So we're we're
allowed to eat whatever we're eating. And Pearl has some really good keto diet
cheesecake to get us soars the end of the haneker, starting right right right.
So what's the first topic. Well, first of all, you look
very different from us, right right, right, right right? So how
come you look very different? Because last time we did the interview was out
of shabbas and I was dressed the way I'm dressed for Shabbis. I was
dressed in my white turban and in my shabbist robe. Why that's the way
I am dressed for Shabbis, it's your elegant, that's my elegant attire.
Yes, for Shabis? Why white, white? White? White? For
shabus white is a very big It's it's a it's a very important color.
It's a color of purs It's not a lack of a color. It's a
color. It's a color. Right, It's it's pure, it's yes,
yes, right, Mainly it's purity. I mean the koin Google wore white.
The priest and the time of the temple. The men wear white gym
kipper. The women try to wear something white or white clothing. The side
that the man the men wear a kittled to the side that white is a
color of purity. Like you say, holiness, holiness, Yeah, and
that's dark. Black is the opposite. It's I wouldn't say black is the
opposite. No, but white specifically is the color of holiness. So no
color is bad. Hasham created them all really, so no color is considered.
The only color that is considered, like women's attire is red is because
it's very very eye catching, very loud, very bold, very so we
stay away from red clothing. But it's not that red is a bad color.
Have the the red hyper right, right, you're right, you're right.
What do you think of my jacket? Though? It's beautiful? Yes,
it's not only red, No, it's not. Again, there's no
nothing created is ever ever bad. There's no such thing. Was just inappropriate
and inappropriate? Yeah, yeah, because I was going to say black is
in the second world, black is associated with funerals, right, But in
Williams for everyone's wearing black mainly because it's a practical color to wear. It's
not because this is a color that and also it's not a color that attracts
very much. So you know, the men wear, of course, dark
clothing, and the women also sort of wear not unattractive clothing. But we
don't wear attracting clothing. That's why you'll see most of us in subdued colors,
not loud colors, not not callers that attract a very eye catching.
Let's talk about arranged marriages, Pearl. Your marriage was arranged right, No,
no, no, no, your your children's marriage, No, absolutely
not what happened. We have arranged meetings, but not arranged marriages. So
you'll explain to you. I'll tell you how I got engaged, how my
daughters got engaged, and my son's one son. The other son we'll talk
about later. I talked about how my grand grandchildren got engaged. Okay,
so I have to start with this introduction that our belief system, our belief
system is that Hashem created the world and recreates it every single day, really
in actuality, really, yes, every day the world is recreated. The
sun comes up, you know, you know, a person wakes up in
the morning and his whole body functions. It's like a sort of recreation all
the time. Our belief system tells us that has Shem runs the world,
which means he runs every single minute second of it. And we have this
constant awareness of Hashem's presence and Hashem's management of our world and ourselves and all
the things that happen in our world. So Shadiham is also one of those
things where we believe that Hashem has the management of it right, meaning so
our children become marriageable age. Let's say, oh, let's talk about me.
I became marriageable age and my parents decided that was married. Now eighteen
eighteen, that's what he says in the mission, which means at eighteen you
should be ready for the wedding canopy. Yeah, exactly exactly, so they
were going to Now we do we segregate our sexes. The girls and the
boys do not mingle unless they're cousins. Family, there's mingling, you know,
there's like talking. But also as they get older, the boys and
the girls, even in families sort of the boys will stay with the boys,
the girls will stay with the girls. I mean, this is some
kind of you know, they go to separate school. They we're talking about
real family occasions. Now, you know, when the family gets together in
the home, so we're constantly aware of the boys belong on the boys side,
the girls belong to the girl's side. Now, now we come to
marriage. Now we have to get together, right but really, truly,
we're really unprepared. How do we do this? We have no skills,
you know, how to do this? Now? We is our children in
such a way that our children respect the parents. They respect the way that
they respect their parents period, and they trust their parents. Okay. Now,
even though by eighteen, I was a big knocker, and I thought,
I know, a big maker, you know, a personality, not
a personality. But I thought that I you know, like you thought you
were already all grown up. I thought it was already, but I knew
that I still in the issue of marriage. I have to trust my parents.
I'm not gonna there's no way for me to go out and find a
husband. There's no way for the boys to find a wife on their own.
So we trust our parents, and the parents needed somebody to facilitate this.
So it is a matchmaker, and a matchmaker in our community is a
respected person. But is it a It's a profession that anyone could have.
It's a profession that anyone can have. But we know who the real professionals
are, I say, and it could be a man, or it could
be a woman. So when anybody gets to the age of eighteen, the
matchmakers know who the candidates are now, so they have a list and they
and because our community is so intertwined, everybody knows more or less about everybody
else, you know, unless you're doing an overseas shiter, which happens also
from a different country. A match shoulders a match, right, Let's talk
about the local ones. So my parents, the matchmakers call the parents,
I know you have a very fine daughter, and I'm thinking of a very
fine boy. And they'll also ask what sort of what things are you looking
for? And then they'll suggest let's say a boy was suggested to me.
Now, the next job is for parents to try to ask around in the
community what kind of a boy is this? They'll ask the other boys who
went with him to Yeshiva, tell me, you know so and so you
went with him to yeshiva? What kind of a boys? What sort of
a boys? See? They'll ask the people who dovin with him in be
Smedish and shule, do you ever watch this boy? You ever see this
boy? Know anything about boy? They'll call the neighbors of this family,
what kind of a family is it? And so there's a lot of collecting
of information which doesn't take too long, and it's not and it's not like
the parents have this responsibility. Oh boy, I better get the right information,
because in the back of our minds we know how Shem runs the world
and he has he has our back, okay, in the in the in
the coom of vernacular. So we take the job seriously, but in the
back of our minds we know we're being led. And we also have a
tradition that forty days before conception of a child, Before conception of a child,
the child even can see. Before the child is can see forty days
before, a heavenly voice says bass ploiny laploine, the daughter of this person
to this person, so we know that it's really been arranged. It's been
arranged before we're changed. We're there to do our what we call his staglers,
which is our effort, howeffort the Almighty requires us to put in effort.
So listen to the effort we're putting in. And my parents got enough
information, and then they said they want to go see the boy. They
want to see him in those days. Don't forget there were no pictures of
there's no media, there's no How long is it usually from when you get
the matchmaker's call until you go see the The bob got a week, ten
days, depending on how much you can reach people that you want to reach.
Okay, so my parents said we want to see the boy. Meanwhile
they're telling me what's going on. You know, we got such information,
We got this information. We like it. We think it's nice. The
family is nice. These people like we spoke to, we call this rabbits
and whatever. My parents went to see the boy, not me, not,
I went along with it. They went to see the boy unofficially.
Unofficially means they still have a right to back out if they don't like what
they're seeing. So how is the unofficial? So I went to see him
in the shatns had a Swodhom store. They went to see him in the
back of the Swodhom store. Did he know he was being He came from
Barack, but he was living in bark where I was living in Willisburg,
so he knew he was coming to be seen. Okay, And I'm waiting
at home. I'm so excited. What are they going to come back and
say? You know? And then my parents come back and they say he
we liked, we liked what we saw. Did they talk to him also,
Yeah, we liked what we saw. And my mother tells me he's
very very tall. Really yeah, not anymore anymore age, we're almost eaten.
At that point he was six foot two and I was five ft two.
Really foot difference. Yes, So I liked the idea all husband,
don't ask me why. Okay, we liked we liked him, and now
they wanted to see you. Okay. So the parents came and this was
really more official. They came to our house. Both of my in laws,
my potential inss came and they we sat and we talked at the table,
and they went home and they said, okay, it's time for the
boy and girl to meet, right and and usually the boy and girl meet
in the girl's house. So they arrived with this boy, my husband and
we all sat at the same table, and about after about five ten minutes,
the parents said, okay, we're going into another room and we are
leaving you to talk to each other. What were you wearing? You don't
remember? It wasn't it wasn't important. No, no, it wasn't important.
So we sit down, we look at each other, and it's customary
for the boy to start you know, there's all kind of nuances over here.
I'm familiar, so it's customary for the boy to start talking. So
he starts talking. I don't remember what he said, and I'm answering him,
and then at one point I tell him, Now, I grew up
in Sutner, and at that time that Ebba Sutner, Ebba was very vocal
about Zionism. Here, I want to pause for a moment to explain what
anti Zionism is in the context of the Acidic Movement. The Acidic movement is
a movement of sects groups, each with its own reba, its own leader
who usually inherits the leadership from his father and will pass it on to sun.
The satmar Hasidic sect is one of the most powerful and most important post
Holocaust groups, and its very first Rabba, Yole Titlebaum, survived the Holocaust
and came to America where he was one of the most important figures in revitalizing
the Hasidic movement after the war. The Summer Sect and in particular yo Old
title Baum, are very well known for its anti Zionism. The anti Zionism
of the Satmareba was rooted in a belief that the Jews should not return to
the land as a sovereign, self governed people before the time, meaning before
the Messiah came. And this comes from the decree by God, one of
the three Oaths, that God swore upon the Jewish people to not return to
the land before the time. And while the Summer Sect remains anti Zionists,
I think the anti Zionism of the early days during the formation of the State
of Israel had a distinct fervor behind it that reflected the energy of the issue
at the time. Also, it had been just after the Custner trial,
so he was vocal about Zionism, meaning he rejected the zionist's creed. He
rejected the design and Zionist philosophy. So what did I do. The first
thing I tell him is, I want you to know I'm a very big
anti Zionist. Okay, this was eighteen and a half year old me,
nineteen and a half year old boy. A very very diplomatic opening, but
I was so passionate about it really that I wanted him to know from the
get go because he didn't learniva like Sathma. I wanted him to He was
Sothner, but he didn't learn in hiva like something he learned in the Borough
Park Yeshiva. That was more Euberlin. How do you say Oberlin? It
was a little it was a little different than than than misdis So I wanted
him to know. So he tells me me too, really do He says
me too? Boy? A match made in heaven. That was what you
you bonded over. We didn't really bonder it, but I really wanted him
to know that this was very very important to me, and I didn't want
to have a marriage where we would have fights over this. What is it
even? How is it even so relevant to you? Is you're in New
York, but you you don't understand what means? I know you don't understand
that. But talked constantly about it, and he cried constantly about it.
You know what he said, huh, I'll tell you say it to you
in Yiddish and you'll translated in English. Very vised, viful tourist. I
will Bringen of Claudia's rule. It was very personal. Yeah, who knows
how much how many problems that will bring on the on on on the Jewish
people. So what happened? Okay, So we had one meeting. Then
he went home. Now now everybody goes home and the parents say, well,
did you like him? Did you like her? I said, you
want to meet him again? And he said the same thing. Was it
the first meeting you had with a boy. No, it was the second
meeting I had with a boy. You had a different meeting and you didn't
like it. No, it was terrible. He was a Zionist. No,
No, it was something else. So okay, so we had another
meeting, the second meeting, a second meeting. We were like more happy
with each other. I was like pretty excited about him, and he was
excited about me. You know, you're younger teenagers, you're eighteen, and
of course you look at each other. Does this does this person appeal to
me physically? It's not just the minds, but what we're really co focusing
on is more of an intellectual meeting of the Do we see a little bit?
Do we understand each other in the talk? Yes, we're not focused
on the purely physical, but it's there. Oh, are you aware of
it? If you're not aware of the physical element of marriage? Who says
we're not aware of the physical element of marriage? A lot of people are
not aware. Do you think we're domina? Even if you're not aware,
has shemp created you with feelings? With hormones? Act of hormones? By
eighteen? I think there are. My experience was I wasn't naive. But
we are both Mavericks in our own No, we're not everybody. My children
weren't mavericks. Now my grandchildren are not Mavericks. These children are growing up
with the knowledge that there is The goal is marriage. The goal is to
have a Yiddish family. The goal is to have children, and so I
mean at some point, even without sex education in the schools, these kids
find out what's going on. Of course, nobody's talking about it or the
kids talk to each other. Oh, they talk to each other all the
time, but the embarrassed to talk to the parents. You know. So
we're not that dumb, and we're not that backwards, and we're not that
out of touch, and we are more in touch as a matter of fact,
because the Toyota is real to us. The hushm this is, this
was, this is the vine. The word of Hushem is alive. It's
not a book that was written. It was the actual We were there at
Sinai. How is that related to what I'm trying to Okay, what so
I'm trying to tell you is that the Toyota talks about such things. The
toyde is about real human life. And when the Irish to give us a
toylet, he said, Khaid Buhem live with it. It was meant for
people to live with It. Doesn't mean that we pretend hormones don't exist.
Boy girl attraction doesn't exist. It means it's there because I shan't put it
into us. This is the way it was meant to be. Everything that
happens to us human beings is part of of Hashem's world, including attraction and
yes, the first mitzvah is multiply the first mitzv toilet, Yeah, you
know, populate the world. So it's part of our growing up. We
know where we came from, we know what we're doing in this world.
We know where we're going. We know we have a plan and a purpose.
Do you know how? So you know how peaceful life is when you
know yeah, when you know what and we're committed to this. It's not
like a fairy tale. We are actually committed to all of this, and
we raise our children with this commitment, with the knowledge of this commitment.
One of the additional steps of acidic matchmaking, which we didn't cover here,
but which is a very important part of the process, is genetic counseling,
which every Hasidic boy and girl will receive through an enormous organization called Derry Assurance.
Peerl didn't receive genetic counseling because it wasn't available yet at the time,
but when we talked about it afterwards, she talked about the marvel of science
that the community is able to take advantage of and how the specific system of
matchmaking allows for genetic testing before the couple falls in love and becomes attached to
each other, allowing for an easy exit if the genetics don't match up.
Okay, so fine, now we're up to the third beshow but your third
show is a third meeting. The show is a meeting. The show is
a meeting. Right, so you knew you you were attracted to your husband
and it was it was something you were I mean, look, is he
behind the person? Right? Is he is? He? Is he physically?
Am I okay with him? Physically? I see? Also besides the
fact that I like talking to him and we share a lot of you know,
we discuss other things. Where do you work and what are you doing?
And who is your family? And things have come and is it it
could be? But if it's, if it's, if you're hitting it off,
right, it becomes fun. Did he see your fun side early on?
No? No, no, no no no, I wasn't so I
wasn't so much fun then? Okay, Now you become more fun with time.
Absolutely. Okay. So now we're having two meetings and nobody's rushing into
anything in the morning, my mother asks me, so you like him?
I said, yeah, so you want to go ahead with the s like
you want to get engaged them? I think so. I wasn't madly in
love with him, but I took into account that my parents actually brought him
to the house, which means that they liked him. They're like what they
saw, They're like what they heard. Now it's up to me the big
decision. Do I know one hundred percent? And my head over heels,
no, Do I see myself getting married to this person? I think so?
I think so, yeah, okay, so should we make an engagement
that night? Not that night? No? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
okay. The third show, the third meeting included the engagement also at your
mother's house, Yes, at my parents' house. And so you make this
engagement, you make a lakhiam between the parents, You call over some friends,
you call over some I was the oldest so and in those days,
our families were very small. It was just twenty years after the Holocaust,
so there was very little family to call over, but some family came over.
I mean today it becomes today's tremendous affairs, you know. Yeah,
yeah, engagement. So now the same thing happened, But my oldest daughter
was ready to get engaged. She had the same attitude. She trusted her
parents. So we went to see one boy, We went to see another
boy, then we went to see Then the shots called us and told us
about my first son in law. My husband and I went to see him.
I don't even think they came to see my daughter. I don't remember.
And then the kids saw each other and again the same question, do
you like him? Yeah, I think I like him. Should we make
an engagement? Yeah, I think we should make an engagement. You never
know for sure? I mean, how could you know for sure? Yeah,
how could you know for sure? What's she amoray? Of judging your
children's appropriate magic seems to be nerve wracking for a parent to make decisions for
their children. We're not the big decision makers. That's the key. There
is a faith system. What do you call faith? You believe that there's
someone bigger than you doing things. That's the wrong definition for faith. Really,
yes, Why what you call faith? We call faithfulness. Faithfulness to
the idea that has sham runs the world. It's a faithfulness to us to
a philosophy we know that has sham runs the world. There's no doubt in
our minds. So we are faithful to this idea. So we believe the
same thing when it comes to shadegem, and when it comes to buying the
cult, and when it comes to buying furniture, whatever you want, we
believe that really Hashem, he's running the world and we are part of his
plan and running world. The only only only place where we are boss,
where we have complete autonomy, and where we are the decision makers and the
deciders. Isn't the moral realm? Otherwise everything is shir It meant yes,
But we have to do our effort. We have to put in our effort.
I have to go to the stort to buy a code, I have
to talk to an agent. When I buy a house. You have to
go through the steps. It doesn't take away from you going through the certain
steps. But in the back of our minds, well, see, whatever
she wants a higher there's a higher power making you know what it does.
It gives a person a peace of mind. Now, when it comes to
our own decision in the moral realm, do I want to do? Do
I want to help my neighbor? Hushm stays out of this This is solely
up to the human being. Do I want to give charity? That's Husham
stays out of this. He lets us be the total deciders. Do I
want to speak bad about this person? Husham stays completely out of it.
This is completely and totally in our control. So when sometimes when you say
what is a person? What is a person? If Fasham is deciding everything,
you know how powerful a person is. If he decides to be good
or bad, that's his whole power. Yeah, the power isn't making the
moral decisions. That's the power, and that is what makes a person a
person. Riches wealth doesn't make the person a person. I hear that it's
what he does with his wealth, but he decides to do it as well,
and the moral realm that decides what kind of a person. This is
the place where I am stuck with us. Is I if I was a
parent, so I have a seventeen year old, if I was a parent
now thinking of making decisions for Shuit, I think I would never be able
to say, oh, yeah, there's a voice that declared forty days before
conception that I don't think I could ever surrender to that kind of now that
I don't you and the rest of the world. Darling. You have to
be raised from You have to have it in your DNA, you have to
need to be consciously aware of it all the time. I appreciate it.
You know something I want to I was raised though, you know, Pearl,
I was raised in it. Yes, it didn't. It didn't register
on my DNA though. Okay, suppose you swallowed poison. Uh huh,
okay, not good, and then you swallowed two minutes later you decided I
made a big mistake. I don't want Can you tell your boddy to expel
that poison? I'm trying to tell you you're not boss. I say you're
not boss. You're not even boss over your own body, which you say,
my hand, my foot, right, my digestive system. Do you
not even boss over it? You can't expel that poison once you swallowed it,
and it's in your system. So who's boss? What do you boss
over? What are you boss over? Whether you're gonna do good or do
bad? That's the only thing you're boss over, That's the only thing.
Yeah, I hear what you're saying. These are big philosophical questions of how
much control do we have, so I don't want to get side tracked.
Go ahead. So we're talking about arranged arranged marriages, none arranged marriages arranged.
My children said, yes, yes, we want to get engaged.
Okay, mazletop, there's an engagement as they're married. Akshm. They're very
happily married. Same thing with my grandchildren, Same story repeats itself. When
I talked to Pearl after our conversation, she emphasized that it was very important
to clarify that there is a choice for the young eligible men or woman,
boy or girl before the match is finalized. And while typically the young kids
are very excited for the match to happen and can't wait to say yes,
there are instances when they don't want the match to go ahead, and she
wanted to be very clear that Noah is an acceptable answer as well. Before
the match is finalized. Is a nerve wracking as a parent, only if
you think that you're in charge, if you think, oh my goodness,
I have to make these decisions for my children. I can't. I can't
do this. Of course you can't. Of course you can. Who makes
a decision that affects the child's entire life it's too big for you. It's
too much for you. You know. Were you ever a matchmaker? Oh?
I tried so many times. I never succeeded. No, never,
never. I want to make one mission in my life. Okay, well
we'll have to work with him. Bring you lists of eligible everybody tries,
everybody tries. How much do you get paid if you succeed? The going
great? The going great? Changing? What's it going great today? I
think it's a fifteen hundred. I'm not even sure because I'm out of the
business. You know, I'm not marrying children anymore. My grandchildren are not
my It's not your bill to pay, but it's only you only pay the
match maker of the matches finalized. Yes, And they complained about that because
they complained that they do a lot of hard work before a match is finalized
and nobody pays them for that. Yeah. So there's a lot of work
going into matchmaking for which they get no compensation for. But there's like I
look at these pamphlets where they advertise the matches every week, there's like ten
matches a week or I don't know, it's it daily or weekly. How
many children are out there waiting for matches. Yeah, it's incredible. Matchmakers
must be very busy. Now you have to understand that the children alone are
going into this not one hundred percent positive. They also trust hashm right,
they trust the parents, they trust a sham. They're also going in with
the same attitude. And you hope for the best and you pray for the
best because you see people who go out together for two years or three years
and then they get married. A fifty percent of marriages and then divorce in
the United States. Now, don't tell me that they had their parents as
matchmakers. Yeah right. What do you think is the success rate of arranged
marriages? There's no arrangement of not arranged marriage, So sorry for what is
the success rate of only the meetings are arranged? Sham arranges the marriage?
Okay, I'm gonna say shitter marriages because it's it's matchmakers with them, it's
matches with a matchmaker. Can I say, watching the question, what's the
success rate? Do you think? I would say it's about ninety to ninety
five percent? What's with a ten to five percent divorce? That's fine?
And what are their stories? Are they unhappily married? Yes, of course
they're not getting divorced. They're not getting divorced for ferrilous reasons. Most of
the time that they're not getting divorced for fer It's serious. Marriage is serious
by us. Marriage is taken very, very seriously. It's not like we're
going into this marriage and we don't understand what it means. We're committed to
this, We're committed to building a family from this marriage. So marriage is
even though our children are teenagers, it's a commitment that they understand. Well,
how long have you been married? Fifty six years? Thirty six years?
And I have to tell you that my husband was the main giver.
Really, yes, it wasn't. It wasn't like a fifty to fifty giving.
I could say that he gave probably seventy five percent and I gave twenty
five percent. I am sure you both gave. I'm serious. It's not
always fifty to fifty. In some marriages, one partner gives more. But
I got to the stage where I now learned to appreciate what a giver he
was and is, so it motivates me to give back more than I than
I did when I was younger. I'm not talking. This is an old
marriage bar Kshem. You know, so we understand each other. But I'm
talking about when I was younger. He was a seventy five percent giver.
What do you mean by giving? What is giving mean? Give? It
doesn't mean giving presents? No, no, no, no, no no
no. He was so nice to me. Yeah, he was complimentary.
He was kind, you know, he was plain kind to me. And
if you ask me what the secret of good marriages, treat each other like
your strangers. I would be kind to a stranger. Yeah, I would
be nice to a stranger. Sometimes I'm so angry that wasn't nice to him,
right, especially with my hormones. Okay, we have a good excuse,
Yeah, we have a good excuse. So, but kindness and a
sense of humor, those are the tricks to in my marriage. To your
your husband is a very sweet person. He's a very nice person, a
very nice person. You're very lucky and extremely lucky, and I appreciate it
and I thank Hushem for it every day. And my parents thanked Husham because
they thought nobody would be able to do You do you think that key to
to I don't know. I guess my question is what happens to a Hasidic
woman whose husband isn't so good to her. Some women can take it.
They learned to adapt, They learned to adjust, and they're nicer. They
are the givers. They are they do the bigger part of the giving.
Well, we're not talking about abusive people, yeah, which exists. We're
not talking about them. They are the reason. They are a good reason
for divorce in a marriage where there's already children. This is not frivolous marriages.
Is when a young couple divorces right after marriage, you know, because
of frivolous reasons. I'm talking about sometimes in a marriage when you already end
up having a few children and you find out that the man that you're married
to, or sometimes in rare cases, the woman that you're married to,
is abusive. So the titter allows divorce. Okay, So abuse includes emotional
abuse like any kind of abuse, any kind of abuse, physical, emotional,
any kind of abuse, abusive abuse. I mean, it's not you
don't say somebody is abusive when they're when they want the kiggle. Yeah,
it depends. Maybe they want kiddle two in the morning, they're waking their
spouse. So what happens if here's here's sometimes a problem that we're going to
stop talking about. If that's okay. What happens if a woman is in
an abusive marriage and there is so much pressure in her society to succeed in
the marriage that she doesn't want to get out of it. There is no
pressure in society, in our society to succeed in the marriage that is harmful
to either partners. There. I don't think women stay in marriages because of
shame and social stigma. Now, they'll stay in a marriage like that for
the sake of the children. Very often, sometimes they are so abused that
they don't see themselves as worthy of anything better. They become damaged from the
abuse. Shame and stigma, I don't know. I can imagine that it
must be a factor in some you know, but I don't know anybody like
that, shame and stigma keeping people in a marriage because it's a posterish So
you think most people's engagements, you know, the arranged marriages of harsetic communities.
Did you say you're arranged? No? Sorry, sorry, I'm going
to restart that the the the match matchmaker marriage. The matchmaker your hands called
my hands are always called the matchmaker marriages let's call them the matchmaker. The
matchmaker marriages. You think most people would agree with you in the community that
it is a very joyous experience, because in secular media it is portrayed as
divorcing all mating from from the excitement and the romance and turning it into some
kind of necessary contract. How would they know there are people who who told
them this, who left, who tell the stories. I don't know.
People who leave, okay, are definitely not going to be I'm not I'm
not going to be good representatives for this way of life. I should tell
you I left, and I will tell you my arranged marriage. I had
one meeting and it was on the spot. My parents are like, no,
it wasn't It wasn't this. I know that there are people who take
the time, but I think people have different experiences also, right, true,
true? Yes, did I say arranged marriage again? Yeah? Yeah,
but maybe yours was arranged. Maybe I hate what you're saying. I
hate what saying, and it happens. It happens. But again, the
responsibility is not felt so great by the parents because they always feel that this
was but shit, this was meant to be. Whether I was the facilitator
of this marriage as a parent or not. This would have needed to happen
anyhow, So there isn't that. Of course, somebody who leaves I cannot
see it this way because they don't believe. They stop believing. So they're
not good advertisers for our way of life. They don't represent the positive.
So what are you doing tonight for last night of Khnukah? Spending it with
my boyfriend? Your boyfriend is your boyfriend? What's the trick to keeping things
interesting with your boyfriend? To how the laws of family purity? Let me
pause to briefly explain Towchra, the laws of family purity that stipulate that a
couple must remain entirely apart with no physical contact during the time that a woman
has her period, and for seven days after her period stops, she can
be reunited with her husband after she goes to a special pool of water called
a mikphah. And that's nothing to do with Harasidam. And that's with Jewish
Jewish life Torah Jewish life, all or all Tower Jews, all Torro Jews.
Yes, it's our secret to success. It keeps a marriage so exciting,
so alive even into old age. It's very difficult when you're young,
because you're not for two weeks, you're not how to have any physicalses.
Twelve days, twelve days. Sometimes it morphs into two weeks, depending but
it's really twelve days. So you have no physical contact, and no physical
contact means that you now relate to each other on a non physical level,
okay, which means we're not just objects of desire all the time. We
are people whose minds are now engaged with our spouse. Right the physicality is
put on the side. It also creates a tremendous, tremendous physical appetite for
when it's permissible, tremendous, and it's very difficult. It's not easy when
you're young. But every time you get together again, it's like a honeymoon
if you love each other. Of course, we're not talking about dysfunctional marriages.
We when I talk about abusive marriages over here, we're talking about two
normal people who like each other, okay, and who find themselves physically attracted
to each other. And young people mostly are. And this is a way
of life for so so, so many many many years that by the time
it's not relevant anymore. You have built up a kind of a relationship with
their husband. That's I don't have to explain it. There's excitement in it.
Yeah, you don't get jaded because you have that, because you have
that kind of a relationship built up. Let's say, let's say we get
married, let's say by nineteen twenty, and it lasts about till let's say
person is that's forty five, So it's about twenty five years, twenty six,
twenty seven years, and then there's no more to then it's not necessary
anymore because there's normal cycle. So, but you have now a relationship with
this person whom you got to know when you were young, and it's this
is the name of the relationship. This is how it works with this really
with this person. So do you know what a you know what A only
has Shem could have created something like this. Only has Shem could have told
us do this and you will have the greatest marriage in the world. It
keeps a marriage exciting, It keeps it, keeps it alive, it keeps
it young, it keeps it The word is exciting. Yeah, okay,
like you still get excited about your spouse. Yeah, I hear what you're
saying, doesn't make sense. I've heard that before. It's interesting to hear.
It's interesting to hear, but of course it ends at some point,
you know, it ends, as you said. Yeah, thank you all
for watching part one of my conversation with Pearl, and I thank Pearl so
much for the good time and the great cheesecake, and for opening her world
up to us. I hope that all of you will stick around for part
two, where we will be talking about some really big topics, the custom
that married women shave their heads, and we'll also talk about OTD, those
who leave the faith, which is another topic that of course touches me very
personally. I hope you'll stick around, and also I encourage you to leave
a comment. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Bye bye,