I feel like it's been a while since I've been on This feels a little
strange. Actually, all right, guys, I got through a lot of
work and now I can present to you part three of thirty years ago in
Waco. And these are the last two videos that were posted by the Hour
of the Time on bit shoot. It's just called Hour of the Time and
it's all of Bill Cooper's archives. I think he posts one a day and
they're up into the eighteen hundreds now, so there's a lot there that you
can learn from. And I'm going to start with Bills what do you call?
What would you say? It was his request basically, and we're gonna
hear that, and then I'm gonna go right into his two broadcasts and it's
actually gonna be video, so don't worry, but I'm gonna probably have to
interject a few times because I'm not sure who made this video. And I'm
sure Bill would have commentary on this too, that some of the things were
kind of a little bit whitewashed or steered in a direction based on assumption that
were, you know, the official narrative given by the FBI and the ATF.
So there's a little bit of that going on. Part two I personally
have not even seen yet. It just came out. It was just uploaded
today. So Part one I did watch and while I was working yesterday,
and it was very still, very informative, and there's a lot. There's
a lot there. Each one of these parts that I put out, it's
another piece of the puzzle. And you just gotta pick them, you know,
find them when you say, oh, and that one grabbed at you
know, this one over here, and then formulate the new overview of what
you've been told versus what is reality? All right, so let me go
ahead and get the show started here. Oh yeah, I got you that
again. Okay, all right, So this is the beginning. This is
William Cooper asks us to share his tapes after he is well you'll see,
and it says William Cooper. This is hot clip number one. William Cooper
asks us to share his tapes after he is killed. You remember, ladies
and gentlemen, I have given up my whole life. I don't have any
money. I'm not getting rich from this. In fact, the only thing
that's happened to me in my family is we have been destroyed. I'm doing
this because I love the principles and ideals which made this country the greatest nation
on earth. Even though I may call the vast majority of American people stupid,
apathetic, and ignorant, it's because they are. But I know that
if somehow we can get them out of that, they will become once again
the greatest people that's ever lived upon the face of this earth. And I
do all of this out of love. I'm telling you this because I want
you to know it, because I don't have long to live. What I
am doing now makes me the biggest target in America. William Jefferson Clinton did
not call me the most dangerous radio host in America because he loves me.
And one of these days you're going to tune into this frequency and you will
not hear a thing. When that happens. I want you all to dig
out all the old tapes of my broadcasts, and I want you to get
on whatever radio stations legal, illegal, micro FM, AM, short wave
HAM, I don't care, and play them over and over and over and
over and over again, because it's the only truth that anybody in this world
is going to hear today. And by now you all know that that's the
truth. Okay, we're gonna get right into it now here is Is this
the part two? Yeah, I get to part one The Hour of the
Time number one eight zero seven Waco and New Revelation Part one. In this
video, you're gonna hear him introduce it, and it's gonna show. It's
gonna switch over to the actual video you're listening to The Hour of the Time.
I'm William Cooper. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Regardless of what
you may think initially, you have never heard this broadcast before. On the
Hour of the Time. A very very close attention can here Part one tonight,
Part two tomorrow and on the Thursday night. I'll tell you where to
get it and make sure that you do get it. It's important. Normally
I would skip the music, but I think this is suitable to fulfill the
long held promise of a new world order for a brutality will go unrewarded.
Just in case you don't remember, let me jog your memory. In a
church they called the Way co Calm Pound. Back in April ninety three,
seventeen little children, also helpless and so small, died a senseless death of
gas and flames. How many names can you recall? Seventeen little children?
Don't it make you wonder? Why? Seventeen little cheerdren? How could they
deserve to die? Maybe we should stop and ask ourselves if we become so
blind, Well, seventeen little cheer Drone find me, open up your mind?
How did you sleep last night? Bill Content? Tell me did you
feel their pain? A seventeen little cheer dr cried out and perished in the
flame? Attorney General Janeteno, I accept your offer to reasign. How can
you stand for law and order now when you will answer to your crime?
Seventeen cheer also helpless and so smart? Seventeen blue Cheersdren, How many names
can you recall? Maybe we should stop and ask our says, if we
become so blind, you'll seventeen little cheers finally open up your mind. I've
heard it said the branch Davidians only got what they deserved. Yet no one
seems to know what laws were broken, what was in the war they never
served? Yesterday I sold my TV, said stop my subscription to the Times
to be It's plain to see little bed was an accomplice to these crimes.
Seventeen and children don't it make you wonder why seventeen little cheers drank? How
could they deserve to die? Maybe we should stop and ask ourselves if we
become so blind little seventeen little cheer Drane. Finally, open up your mind,
Open up your mind. You're gonna find throughout this video that there is
over twenty I've actually died in not seventeen. Hello, I'm doctor Frederick Whitehurst.
I was employed by the FBI for sixteen years as an agent, the
last twelve of those years at the FBI Crime Laboratory in Washington, d c.
After reviewing the results of the six year investigation into the tragedy at Waco,
Texas, I am convinced that the American people have never been told the
full truth about that matter. On February twenty eight, nineteen ninety three,
agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms rated the Branch Davidian compound
near Waco, Texas. Four eighty f agents and six Branch Davidians were killed.
The Branch Davidians were immediately charged with murder, thus beginning a fifty one
day siege. On April nineteenth, which is the first day of the Feast
of Moloch nineteen ninety three. The siege ended in a fire which destroyed the
compound and took the lives of seventy nine men, women, and children.
The FBI later claimed that the Davidians had committed mass suicide. Since nineteen ninety
three, former FBI special forces and CIA operatives have come forward with evidence to
suggest this claim is not true. This is the story of that evidence.
Having served with the FBI's hostage negotiation team during this crisis, April the nineteenth
would mark the end of one of my duties and the beginning of another.
Unknown to me, my life was about to change forever, as I would
come to know what failure is. Today, I saw the gates of hell.
I saw the gates of hail. Holding a child in your hands that
lost its light in a fire where the temperatures reached an excess of three thousand
degrees is something that pierced in my heart. April nineteenth, turned the TV
on and there I saw the tanks ramming into the front of the building in
the fire, shooting out and it was just it was horrifying. Mommy says,
you know, they told us about their fire, and says, they
said, my Daddy and my brothers said to Zakon things will be said straight,
people will know the truth of things. Today two subcommittees undertake historic joint
hearings and executive branch conduct during that led up to the events at Waco,
Texas in nineteen ninety three. In human terms, these hearings are about a
tragic loss of life. Four brave young law enforcement officers lost their lives in
February twenty eight, nineteen ninety three, a plan raid went badly and off
course. These four agents, dedicated and proud, deserved our full respect.
They did not used to die, but like many others in law enforcement community,
they chose to serve and less enough forget that those four happened to be
security detail at one point for William Jefferson Clinton, and it was with the
four that died. But this is a complex event. On April nineteenth,
nineteen ninety three, after a fifty one day siege, other decisions led to
the use of so called cs gas and a fire broke out. The fire
rapidly consumed the entire Davidian compound, killing all twenty two innocent children and more
than sixty adults. The truth behind that part of the tragedy is also important
and is the obligation of those who have responsibility for oversight to pursue the truth
relentlessly. The Branch Davidians were a Seventh Day Adventist or a sect of Seventh
Day Adventist. They were an offshoot developed first in California under the leadership of
Victor Hattaff. He moved to why in nineteen thirty four thirty five founded a
community called Mount Carmel. His followers, in turn moved to the location we
know in the early sixties. If you once get to know these people,
they're different from you and me. They're more religious than you and me.
They know the Bible better than you and me. They lived apart from the
rest of us. They lived in a manner different than the rest of us.
They had different marriage customs and different property practices and the rest of us
have. And they had a religion that was absolutely incomprehensible to most Christians.
Well. There were people from all walks of life, various nations, and
a lot of them came from England. They were colored table as well as
white people. Majority of those people in there were not criminals in the sense
of the word that we think about them. They were truly believing people.
I believe ninety nine percent of those people their sole purpose was the attainment of
eternal life, which is after all what I believe. All of us,
you know, at least that are Christians and believe in the Branch Davidians believe
first of all, that is the remnants of the true faith. They would
be attacked by a hostile army representing an apostate government Babylon, they called it,
and that it was their religious duty to defend the faith. In nineteen
ninety two, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms began an investigation into
David Koresh for the possession of illegal firearms. They formed a dynamic entry plan
to secure the premises and seize illegal weapons with approximately one hundred federal agents and
three helicopters, which would ultimately cost the lives of four ATF agents and six
Branch Davidians. I have to stop there to remind everybody that they knew damn
well that those firearms were not on the property at that time, because they
were selling them as a business, and they happened to be taken already off
premise to a gun show and that two hundred dollars tax stamp that they used
as an excuse they never even had an automatic weapon in the first place.
On February twenty eight, nineteen ninety three, approximately NINETYF ATF agents, while
attempting to execute a warrant, were met with heavy gunfire by a group of
individuals occupying a compound approximately ten miles northeast of Waco, Texas. The group
is identified as the Branch Davidion. A gunfight brokeount that would become the longest
shootout in American law enforcement history. According to the ATF, their men pull
up to Mount Carmel pile out of their cattle trailers, went running towards the
door, guns pointed, shouting police search warrant lay down. According to them,
David was standing at the front door, unarmed, and he shut the
door when they started running towards him. And the next thing the ATF knew,
it says, it was receiving gunfire from inside of Mount Carmel, in
particular, from behind that front door. He knew long horsemen was coming,
and he was so diabolical that he laid an ambush. David Koresh expresses this.
He says in this tape that he went out on his porch. He
said, stopped. There's women and children in here, and a shot rang
out and hit the door on to the right. That door, he says,
kicked. I went running down the hall and found Perry Jones laying in
the hall screaming that he had been shot. Harry Jones was in his sixties.
He was unarmed, as was David Koresh when they went to the front
door. Both was shot in the area of the front door. David was
shot in the wrist. Perry Jones was shot in the stomach. And then
he says, if he don't believe me, look at the video tape.
I know you have that tape. He says, I saw you making it
across the road. According to the agency, there were three or four video
cameras pointed at the front door could tell you everything that happened at the front
door of that building that day. They claim they can't find a single one
of them. Every one of those videotapes banished. In additions of the missing
videotape, the ATF's on sne activity logs also disappeared. I'm sorry, sir,
I just you mentioned that notes were torn out of the surveillance log I
was just wondering, how does that happen? I don't know, sir,
I had never heard that before. My dad's name is Perry Jones. He
was an unarmed man and you guys just shot through the door, killed them,
thankfu lot. But Blestaris was one of the first ones to the door,
Officer ballest Doors. He's an ATF agent, and they had a plan
that if the dogs came up to attack him when they came to the front
door, if they were to shoot the dogs to build the dogs. And
he testified at a pre trial hearing that in fact they did fire and shoot
the dogs. At that time, it didn't take much of a spark to
get a war going. I'm remember gun shooting through the windows our room.
I was shot up completely. I did my best at getting the kids under
the bed. All of a sudden, OU there's I don't know how many
fifty seventy, I don't know a hundred people outside, but at some point
before I got Jaco and Brian under the bed, bullets can flyin in my
owndow were a law enforcement agency. We don't fire through walls indiscriminately at people
greatly feared that they would come in, they would open that door, and
even though I didn't have a gun, that it wouldn't batter that they would
shoot me in the kids. They had already shot it into the window,
and I had no clueots coming back. Just so you know, the video
cut right there after those people entered. The ATF entered that window. What
you'll see in Waco, the big lie is that another ATF agent from outside
the window starts firing into that room that the ATF agents just entered. So
who shot who and who was killed by whom? The government tried to say
that everybody they could put a gun in everybody's hand at the beginning and during
the raid, and that's not true. Most people were on armed. There
were a few that had guns, and I admit that, and they were
probably those that reacted to seeing David Perry and others gotten down who responded by
firing back. But it was not a general ambuscious they would like you to
believe. I am in sympathy with the families of those that lost, the
families of the four agents that died. I know what they're going through.
We lost a lot of friends and a lot of our families. I lost
a daughter inside mouth camel. After about two hours, they had a real
truce. It wasn't a pretty sight. I mean, they were grown men
crying all around. There was a group of guys that were down on their
knees and they were praying, very disturbing, you know type thing. I
don't think the deaths on either side were justified as well as those wounded.
Judy Snyder was shot while nursing her baby through the chest. Get my battery,
God, get my battery behind a buzz. Immediately following the at F
raid, the Branch Davidians were charged with murder and conspiracy to commit murder of
federal agents. A year later, the jury found all the Branch Davidians not
guilty of both charges, but some were convicted of lesser offenses. Since the
initial February twenty eighth grade, a review was before federal court to determine if
the ATF used excessive for us while serving the search warrant. Sir, I'm
gonna people shot. Get the hell off of here. I'll get off the
property. That's what I'm doing, sir, respect I am sir. You
could have arrested me any day as I jogged up and down this road.
You could have arrested me going to town or going to Walmart. All this
stuff you meet, you guys may want to avoid and deny, and I
do not appreciate it, and never will I ever appreciate somebody coming here and
pushing people around with guns. He I'll meet you at the doorstep any day,
you know, and somebody will get hurt if you want to keep playing
that game. I'm talking to you, somebody's going to get hurt, because
this ain't America anymore. When the ATF has that kind of power to come
into anybody's home and keep doors there and things like that. The federal agents
said they are headed back through the house. So this thing is not over
by a long shot. And the only way that this is going to end
is for all of the people inside to die or to surrender. Bread.
I was walking out, Uh, there wasn't any room in the car um
and when they saw me, they just swarmed on me. Set out of
here. Didn't know, daddy. They're hitting me, trying to take my
camera away from me, yelling at me. And after all this went down,
the Secret Service asked me if I wanted to prosecute the agents. I
said no, I said, I understand them, and I was at first
event valve. At this point we were surrounded. At this point, we
did not have a clue what the government Babylon, in our opinion, was
going to do in retaliation, but we knew it wasn't going to be fun.
On the evening of February twenty eighth, while Mount Carmel is under siege,
three Davidians not present during the gunfight trying to return home to their families.
Two of the men are taken into custody, but Michael Dean Schroeder is
killed. They say that they stopped him and they asked for who they were
or whatever. I at don't see how any of the ATF agents were close
enough to ask him any questions. Michael Schroeder's body is left in a ravine
for five days, three hundred yards from Mount Carmel. According to the ATF
statements, Schroeder refused demands to surrender and raised a pistol. Eleven agents fired
on Schroeder. The autopsy report indicates that he had seven bullet entries. Why
it takes so many fatal bullet wounds to knock somebody to the ground. According
to testimony, as the ATF agents were walking away with their prisoner, leaving
Mike lay there like a piece of meat in ATF and stated that they heard
two more gunshots. Norman was picked up. He told the others when he
was in jail with him, he said, after I surrendered, he said,
and they were taking me away, he said, I heard two more
shots up the back. Schroeder's autopsy report also indicated that there were two entry
wounds behind his right ear, only two inches apart. The bullets passed through
this blue stocking cap. However, the stocking cap was not examined during the
autopsy, nor was any forensic testing conducted before Schroeder's relatives had his body cremated.
I said that Mike ambishon there was seventeen of them as against him,
and they would dressed up as trees. He wasn't armed either, BYGG loved
to answer for After the initial rate happened in February twenty eight, we got
several phone calls in from the ATF that said if they saw any movement inside
the building, hands in front of the windows, if people were standing in
front of the windows, that they felt that it was a threatening situation and
that they would shoot us. On March the first, the FBI begins negotiations
with the Davidians. Heavy military equipment is brought in, and a stalemate begins
that will last fifty one days. Several adults and children leave Mount Carmel and
are transferred to atf custody. The children are turned over to Texas Social Services.
We have twenty one children that have been released to our cares far.
The youngest of those children is five months old and the oldest one is at
twelve year old. The children appear to be smart and well educated, very
sharp children. They seem to have been very well cared for. In early
March, Koresh had promised to come out, but at the last minute he
believed that God had told him to stay in to wait. During the siege,
David Koresh believed that the name prophecy was being fulfilled, and which we
believe spiritually speaking, that's talking about the One World order. David Koresh believed
that he was going to be the one that initiates the downfall of this one
or new world order, the fall of Babylon the Great, by sacrificing himself
in this denomination. The description of Nanova in the Book of Nam David likened
to the description of this country being all stagnants in its ways, and the
battle that takes place talks about these chariots, shields being bloody, even what's
not. He likened that battle to what took place on February twenty eight two.
Read nam or Habackic and you're in it, you're experiencing it. It
all fits together. It's all a conglomerate of different prophecies by different men at
different times, talking about a world of Babylon, a great war. These
tanks are for solely defensive purposes, and they will not be armed. We
have no plans to assault the compound two thousand years ago. Hey, who
believes in christ doctrine, the man had to die. No one would believe
what he had to say. So is there a lesson to be learned by
looking back at the history of the prophets that can contrary to what people looked
for. Where they killed Isaiah, they killed Hushi, they killed Zachariah,
and Jesus came to say in Matthew twenty three to the Jews warns you to
believe not all the Province of Spoken. So you know, today it's all
together just totally disregarded. There's another religious fanatic. It's another religious group.
Ever since the rise of television, there's been a merger of news and entertainment.
Monster stories and fairy stories are good, simple entertainment. Here you have
media from all over the world is flown in and expected by their home offices
all around the world to produce a story every day. I mean, the
government could have just issued a press release every day and the media would have
read it word for word over the air. Just I mean, that's how
you know, desperate. It was what the public was seeing and hearing on
TV during the siege demonized the people in that church. The ones that I
met new the survivors, were people that we're basically just trying to get to
heaven. The world can hate us, the world can laugh at us in
times of s all they want the world's at two thousand years to learn this
book. And they've been people all up until now, we've been interested in
it. Now people don't want the Bible anymore. People don't seem to want
to read the Bible or you know, they want to go to church and
just be saved, you know, And that's great if that's how faith works.
But if God is a will, and it is written in that book,
the spirits, written in the book, through all the prophets, then
there's a knowledge he wants us to know. And the knowledge is here and
it's being revealed. And that that's all I can say. By March twenty
fourth, twenty five children under the age of fifteen und approximately fifty four adults
remain inside the church compound as Steve Schneider negotiates with the FBI's let's reflect on
this for a minute. Why were they there in the first instance, A
good question. They were there to serve and execute an arrest and search for
They never said anything, not by a bullhorn, not by a knock at
the door, not by any reason, not by any reason, even before
they got just about the time they got to the porch is when David opened
the door and poked his head out. What we want to do and what
we will do when the time is right, is we will process the crime
scene there. Do you know that we know that that wouldn't be so bad.
The biggest issue that I've raised with you, Dick, is not that
you would be here even or that the Texas Rangers. But I am adamant
about this part that the APF is planned the ones that came to this place,
and when I've heard on the press conference the outright lise and to think
that that agency would be involved in any aspect of this from here on out
blows my mind that that would even be allowed in America. Well, Steve,
let's face it, there are some things that we will We will deal
with when the time is right. No, no, no, you start
dealing with it now so we can come out. I mean, that's one
of the biggest reasons I have not been able to hurdle talking to the people
getting them to come out to k Steve, why don't you and your fan
to come out and then you handle these issues? Okay, why don't we
all? Am I going to handle them? And I'll be when I'll be
shackled her hands and feet and throwing the key will be thrown away. Who's
gonna hee? They're after blood? Come on? Did they put me in
the jail? Didn't I go here after I'd been there a shot period of
time? They brought me in and Judge came and told me what I was
being charged for and he says, you're being charged for Bura conspiracy to murder.
They said it'll be a hundred years, seventy five or fifty. They
were assuring us that we would be cared for in a professional manner. Then
you turn around and you've got people that are flipping you the finger over top
of the tanks. They're dropping their drawers and bearing their butts, and these
are the type of people that you're supposed to go out to. I said,
I had heard that you guys had rode on some of the windows there
at Mount Carmel that we see you, David, etc. And I asked
the agent was this true? And he said, yeah, it's true.
And I said, aren't you guys concerned about when this is over that the
news meeting might see this? And thinking a little antagonistic on your part.
He just looked at me and boy, everything flip flop. From day to
day. You went through a feeling of being real hopeful to you sunk at
the bottom again because from day to day you never really knew what was going
to happen, what the negotiations were going to be. Steve, Yeah,
there's been a change. The tactical people have changed the situation, and for
security reasons and for safety reasons, no one is now authorized to come out
of there for any reason. And what they're telling me is that if anybody
does, they are going to be dealt with in such a fashion that the
people have to retreat back to the compound. What I'm not I'm missing I
guess what you're saying. Are you saying? Or I would make it as
plain as possible. The patience of the bosses is normally long, was earlier
all the day, and I'm a bart already. Listen to me, now,
Henry, I don't really give up your bosses when you tell me one
thing or you tell us that is okay. And as Bradley comes up and
says something contrary to what you are, you tell your bosses to get their
foots together. You hear me. Would you respond to the allegations that the
reason why we had a WACO is because the FBI was in disarray, It
is obvious that from the time of the change in the administration, it was
very clear that there was a great discussion about the replacement of the director of
the FBI. In a March eleventh letter to President Clinton, acting Attorney General
Stuart Gerson recommends that the President rely on other FBI leadership to resolve Waco and
dismiss Director Sessions. Chief among those mentioned in Gerson's letter is Assistant Director Floyd
Clark. Don't confuse him with Jeff Session. It's William Sessions. Sessions can't
talk today. This situation created a competitive environment for the directorship of the FBI
in the midst of a major crisis. I know this was a very political
thing, and I agree that with your observation that it could be that the
FBI was impaired its ability. Certainly I was impaired in my ability. FBI
Director William Sessions attempted to fly to Waco during the siege to conduct face to
face negotiations with David Koresh, but he was impeded by government officials in Washington,
d C. The reason Bill Sessions never came to Waco during the siege
was that the Justice Department refused to let him board his flight. Everybody knows
that I had contact Director from people associated with mister Koresh about the possibility of
my going down and negotiating with them coming in down there, and now some
people played that asiculous and ridiculed it or as grandstanding, but it's indicative of
what I felt and continued to feel. You can't discard any possibility that you
can resolve that kind of circumstance when you can take and apply that negotiating capability.
The Justice Department wouldn't allow an FBI director to go and negotiate directly with
a so called terrorists who they felt had killed a number of federal license more
or less in cold luck, and try to defuse a serious situation ended up
in a calamity and a great embarrassment for the FBI and even greater embarrassment for
law enforcement in general. And it was all politics. They were not about
to see this standoff in Waco negotiated again because it was an opportunity for Floyd
Clark and comp to show that they were were the FBI capable of handling a
standoff and coming out winning in this kind of an incident with military kind of
tactics. It was a paramilitary organization. Maybe you might ask them, if
you're gonna have some ice cream too? Can I have some cream off?
A little brobberry there? You know you're right now you're considered a big terrorist,
you know, and you can demand some important things like an ice cream
or something. You know, maybe they might adhere until you. By late
March, the FBI has cut off electricity to the compound and is preparing a
series of military tactics to force a resolution. A direct quote from the transcript
where it is said by a negotiator to mister Krash, we had a very
good dialogue last night. The electricity will not go off tonight because we have
had a good dialogue this evening, as a negotiated to mister Koresh. Half
an hour later, no, I'm sorry, it's a negotiator to mister Steve
Schneider. Half an hour later, the lights are turned off and laughed off
permanently. The electricity shut off. Why. I can't answer to why,
but I can tell you that the negotiation team was disappointed in that decision.
Since mid March, negotiations have begun to fail and the FBI resorts to psychological
warfare. I have appreciated the music get out, I sleep at night music.
I thought you'd being a teenager, you might marsh and silence. Oh,
I see went through varying degrees of hell with noise, music, bright
lights. The children were suffering along with the adults, were without water,
having had our water tanks shot up. We were living on rainwater. Whenever
it would rain, people would put buckets out the window and collect rainwater,
and it was rationed. I doubt whether anybody got more than eight ounces a
day. If that, how long do you fit with that many resources tied
up and disrupting the whole community, with people that are violate, in violation
the law, that are in fact in a state of anarchy. I can
remember looking out the south side of the building. My attention had been drawn
to the fact that the tanks were coming in and they were pushing all the
things on the south side of the church, on the chapel, south side
of the chapel into a big heave. It looked like they were building a
bon five. We know from the evidence that the tactical element of the FBI
was eager to put a quick end to the standoff. The irony of the
situation is that the tactical people are actually precipitating the crisis of the nineteenth They
told me the Commander's one more, and I'm telling them, they're wrecking everything
that we were doing, and it's getting ten times worse. And the more
they threaten these people, the more they'll leap down right on the floor and
they can run the tanks over them. I mean, that becomes the attitude
Steve Snyder and a telephone call during the standoff to his sisters, Sue refers
to the prophecies in the Book of Name, chapter two. We're talking about
the Bible and all the profitment. I know, look at when you get
off the point, you look at the Book of Nam. Yeah, that
that curios put flaming torches are tanks. That's what Nam saw in the final
Days. They're surrounded us. It's the first time and they hit the United
States that the government has used tanks against its own people. Who it's stupid.
I know it well. I had been talking to the negotiators myself,
and I would tell them things that I thought would help. And it seemed
like like, for instance, when they started playing the music that they would
laugh, They acted like they wanted to do everything to intagonize, and they
really didn't want to help. And it just seemed like every prediction that David
was predicting, they knew about, and they were making these predictions come true.
And I kept saying to my family, why are they doing this?
If they want them to come out? I am bewildered in the wake of
Jonestown, wh more time wasn't spent, and somebody not out in the plains
of Waco, but maybe in a nice comfortable office in Washington, didn't immerse
themselves in the religious tenants of this branch Davidian group. If I knew about
his plans to burn the place, would we had had a whole nother approach
with him. We know about your plan to burn the place and destroy your
people, we would have been broadcasting it. We would not even come close
to approaching that place. Numerous microphones were planted inside of Mount Carmel that recorded
several conversations of the Davidians reacting to the tanks and the FBI hostage rescue team
who was deceived the fire. The FBI cannot get up here and say they
did not know that David Koresh would respond when they made that assault. They
knew that David Koresh was going to respond by trying to burn the place down.
And they knew that because they had overheard undercover tapes and because I'd had
prior negotiation tapes with him. The tank started the fire, not the Davidiansyah,
no things, You're only going to get worse out there. This whole
situation is not going to go away, you know, And I know the
only way we're going to resolved in this situation is you folks come on out.
That's that's the end of it right there. And now you were going
to have to work to a point where this is going to happen. And
now the trick is how and a situation like this, Hey, there's that's
the answer. I'll tell you what. It definitely oppened out in the usual
situation for sure. Oh sometime when you have a chan three days, they
have thirty three of what people living in fire and walk through it and coming
out and surviving, seriously, says, who can dwell? And everlasting burnings?
That's the question. There is a tradition in the Branch Davidian history that
God would in the end time protect his people through a wall of fire.
They understand the Bible prophecies to be warnings of what could happen, but not
necessarily what must happen. Koresh wrote a letter to his attorney Dick to Garrett
in which he said he had good news. God had spoken to him.
The waiting period was coming to an end. He and all the people could
exit Mount Carmel and go through the system. But first he was commanded to
write down the meaning of his message, the meaning of the seven Seals.
After he wrote that manuscript, he and all the people were commanded to leave.
They actually had no choice to remain. God had told him to leave.
This message is communicated to the FBI. In an attempt to end the
siege. Koresh writes his first seal and is preparing the second when the FBI
begins implementing its final tactical resolution. They'd been knocking down trees and dragging things
off from outside Mount Carmel a little by little for several weeks. On the
eighteenth, they got rid of everything that was left. It's just like the
papsie there in the dark ages. But they thought people were heretics. They
went in and doe with them. That was the way they believed. And
you know, we have to all follow our conscious us Why America supposed to
be a great nation where we can follow our conscious according to our beliefs.
There was an aura there that we're going to end this thing. The individual
MPI brand individuum calm out. Now we are in the prom point with haircap
in the building. On on on, We were not being entering building.
Gas wasn't started using a marked five delivery system secured to a boom. We
would not use thosages that would would harm those children, and they had hairca
The FBI's position on this from day one was to be very deliberate, very
careful, and not to do anything that would be provocative that would cause some
reaction. There were no injuries to FBI agents, and FBI agents did not
return any fire throughout the entire day, in spite of being fired upon numerous
times by occupants of the compounds. The plan was for this to continue for
forty eight hours, but there was a catch to the plan. If the
tanks took fire from the Davidians, they were then allowed to escalate the plan.
According to the official briefing given to Attorney General Janet Reno by the FBI
on April to twelve, the assault plan called for demolition of the building and
permission to shoot streams of automatic weapons fire into the building to support an armored
vehicle's approach, and we told them what was going to happen. This tank's
going to come up, it's going to insert gas. We are not entering
the compound. We're not fulfilling this prophecy. Don't presume that was The Attorney
General warned that while we've been very cautious about selecting what your experts say or
experts say was non lethal gas, we might still crush seconds and the building.
Did she understand that people might be killed? I find an inconsistency between
the efforts of the gas insertion plan to save life and the actions of this
tank. At Mount Carmel, we had people that were confined to an area.
Where were they going to go? Who are they going to hurt?
They ran out of gas canisters I think about ten o'clock in the morning.
Everything they had planned for forty eight hours was gone by the NA they were
flying in more from Houston. The cs gas used at Mount Carmel was more
potent than normal tear gas. CS gas would induce nausea, vomiting, and
disorientation as the FBI tanks demolished the building. CS gas has a cyanide component
to it. The gas was dispersed from high pressure bottles mounted on the boom
of the combat engineering vehicles. Any indication about danger or harm to those children,
the rule was back off. One of the first locations gassed by the
FBI is the buried school bus the entryway to an underground store them shoulder.
Following the gassing, the mothers of the children take them to an enclosed concrete
vault, which the FBI calls the bunker. The FBI gas is the Bunker
for two hours, approximately half of a panel that we had testified that some
of the infants and children, since they didn't have gas masks, could in
fact have died from inhalation or effects of CS gas at the very least.
A Department of Justice decision in fact resulted in the babies and children being tortured
for at least three to four hours. I'd been told that earlier in the
morning the fielders wouldn't last long. When it did block up, I'd take
them my mask off, only to find my face bunting and stinging like you
had acid all over. Some of them were trying to wipe it off with
minimal amounts of their drinking water on them, perhaps a rag or whatever,
only to find that they'd made it worse, so, as I say,
what the children would going through, only God knows. I saw grown men,
adults crying because of the sensation of the gas. As I say,
we were fortunate in as much as we were not in an enclosed environment like
the children were being sprayed point blank and not having any ventilation. We are
now at what we believe is the next logical juncture of putting sufficient pressure on
them to cause them to come out. We saw a hole at a tank
had made in the south wall of the chapel, and we were kind of
standing right just inside of that. There was a heap of rubble sheet rock,
and two before is that the tank had pushed in. We were standing
just a little back from the hole, trying to decide whether if we went
out we would be shot. And as we were standing there, others were
kind of coming in behind us. Next thing I knew, I kind of
turned was looking out the hole again, and all this smoke came down the
outside of the building and got sucked in the hole where we went in the
whole place to pitch black. That was the first indication that I recall of
any evidence of fire, any statement by you that they committed suicide since we
never got to talk to him. Is all a conclusion that you've drawn,
And, as you just said, speculation on your part. I'm trying to
resolve in my mind why someone would sit in there for six hours with gas
and not come out with full opportunity to come out. Who was keeping them
from doing it, or are they compelling themselves or what. I don't know.
I'm just it has to be speculation. In the very first video that
I did day fifty one, they talk about twenty five people trying to flee
and they were all gunned down. Hey, I think that's the point is
we don't know. It was so black he couldn't even save the flames.
You could just feel the heat, oppressive heat that pushed you down on the
ground. And I can remember looking at my hands and the skin was just
rolling off. There was no blister. They were just rolling it off in
whole layers, you might say. And I look back over my shoulder and
I was just horrified the fact that I've just come through a massive flames.
I heard some people screaming, kind of high pitched screams. They didn't sound
anyone, was like a scream of fear, A sound like more of a
scream that someone was getting burned. We were hoping that the women in that
compound would grab their children and flee out. That did not occur. Unfortunately,
they've bunker down the children, the best we can tell, and they
allowed those children to go get up in flames with them. David Koresh,
Steve Schnyder, fifty two other adults, twenty five children, and two trauma
born infants perish in the April nineteenth fire. The Davidian survivors were taken into
custody by FBI agents on the scene. No Clive Doyle and other injured French
Davidians were given emergency treatment at the FBI command post. The uninjured Davidians were
transferred to the custody of the ATF and book into the county jail. The
reason we didn't wait was the thing I'm trying to say several times, I'm
not saying it, but well enough is that from his actions on the nineteenth
when he made when he had some of those people killed when he my gun
fire. Others died in the fire for not being able to leave, which
I think they were concerned, but most of another's salvation that that was his
hold over them, is that he would dictate. When that occurred, many
people would all do your actions, how do you respond to their families?
It's not because of our actions. Those children are dead because David Korsh had
been killed. There's no question about that. He had those fires started.
He had fifty one days to release those children. He chose those children to
die. I don't know who started the fire or fires. I don't know
who fired bullets into these people's bodies. I don't know from what origin the
bullets came from. So if we can completely agree that we do not have
a definitive answer of the sourcing that in fact, what we have is an
open homicide. Is there anything that we've missed that we should go after in
the remaining two days, Yes, sir, I think we've missed some of
the questions as to as I've mentioned earlier, why items of evidence have disappeared,
why the crime scene was destroyed before it could be evaluated. These areas,
especially the evidence disappearing. Okay, on to the next one. All
right, here we go. You are listening to the hour of the time.
I'm William Cooper. Folks, if you want to check out the number
one source of news and the whole world the best news that there is anywhere.
William Cooper dot net, William Cooper dot net one more time, William
Cooper dot net. For those of you living in the Round Valley, we
are getting a new antenna for one on one point one FM, which should
triple our signal strength just the antenna alone. We're not going to add any
more power. We're at the maximum legal power that we can do. But
we can add an antenna that will multiply the signal strength by about three times.
We also have now our amplifier for Channel fifteen for the Round Valley TV,
and that's cost us a bunch of money, and it's being built from
scratch, specially for us. It was hard to find. It took us
a long time, and I've got to a publicly thanked Scott Becker for that.
Now, stay tuned for part two. Waco a new revelation. I
mean, you have an essence a crime scene that was so seriously flawed through
ignorance or through an air of an elite mentality, or in fact, there
was a conscious decision made to not collect evidence for any sort of serious examination
other than to try and prove that the Davidians had weaponry and firepower enough to
kill federal agents. Some of these bodies exhibited characteristics perhaps being shot. Did
anyone fire from any other location? The information that we've always been given that
there was no federal gunfire on the day of April nineteenth, Well, in
reviewing the photographs and the three O two, the statements in them, I
would say there are some questions that need to be affered. The FBI named
the sniper positions Sierra one, Sierra two, Sierra three. On April nineteenth,
FBI Special Agent Charles Riley stated in his after action report that he had
heard shots fired that morning from sniper position number one, the undercover house.
The position was occupied by the Blue Sniper Team, led by Special Agent Lawn
Horyogi. Horiuchi stated that Lawn Horiuchi, does anybody remember that name? He
is the guy who shot Vicky Weaver in the head while she was holding her
baby at what, yeah, the Ruby Ridge incident that happened just before this,
well, you know, before this, neither he nor his snipers fired
their weapons on April nineteenth. The fact that Agent Haruchi states in Historiol two
that the snippers at Sarah one, which was the under cover house, did
not fire, and there is a shilcase and expended shielcase and they're visible on
the floor. Would also read of question four. Expended shell casings are later
found at CRA one, the location of Agent Horyuchi's Blue Sniper Team. What
makes this particularly interesting is mister Horiuchi coincidentally happens to be the FBI agent who
shot and killed Vicky Weaver at Ruby Ridge and had been charged with manslaughter by
the State of Idaho. In August nineteen ninety two, white separatists for Randy
and Vicky Weaver were involved in a st and off with the FBI at their
Mountain home. Agent Horyuchi shot and killed Vicky Weaver, who was standing in
the window of the door holding her ten month old daughter. She would standing
there holding baby in her arms, holding the door so we could get in
after they wounded me. And this guy is still running free. According to
an internal federal government investigation, Horyuchi shot is termed unconstitutional. Lan Horyuchi was
never tried. Seven months later, he was the leader of the Blue Sniper
Team at Waco, accompanied by most of the FBI team from Ruby Ridge.
Our desire was to get them out to use non lethal means in a systematic
manner so if they would come before the bar and face justice, we did
not want this to occur. At some point we had to up the annie.
He was continually fortifying, He was demanding and was seeking provocation to get
into a shootout with us, which we were refusing to do. According to
the FBI's on site activity log, at nine o three am, FBI Command
advised zero two that an unknown subject could be seen traveling on foot at the
back of the building. In this aerial photo taken an approximately nine am,
a Davidian appears to be leaving the building and walking towards the back of the
compound. The log indicates that Falcon two, an FBI helicopter, took off
to intercept the subject. As it approaches Mount Carmel, several flashes can be
seen coming from the side of the helicopter. Doctor Edward Allard, a former
supervising scientist in video and Television imagery at the US government's Night Vision Directorate,
examined the helicopter footage and concludes that the flashes are gunfire. When we analyze
these flashes as we have done in one sixtieth of a second time frames,
it appears that there's three shots coming from the helicopter, but in fact,
each one of those three shots can be broken down into one sixtieth time frames
sixtieth of a second, and we find, for instance, in the first
flash, there's five separate shots being fired, and it's indicative of machine gun
that's firing at about six hundred rounds per minute. In this view of one
of the FBI's helicopters, a pedestal mounted machine gun can be clearly seen in
the doorway. FBI agents did not return any fire throughout the entire day,
in spite of being fired upon numerous times by occupants of the compound. On
the other hand, since this is on a helicopter, and people might say
that its reflections from the windshield, it's impossible for these shots that you're seeing
with your own eyes had to be solar reflections, because if it were so,
the helicopter would have to be violently moving back and forth like a mirror
in your hands, and this is impossible. So it's in our opinion,
it's clearly machine gun fire from the helicopter in coming out the conversation. As
I remember, it was well, if we come out, we'll be shot.
According to the autopsy reports, Philip Henry was shot several times in the
chest, shoulder, and head. Jimmy Riddle was shot once in the forehead.
Neither of them had sort accumulation in their trachia or bronchial tubes or carbon
monoxide in their blood, indicating that they died before the fire started. Later,
when I saw the autopsy report and seeing that he died of a gunshot
wound to the head, it made me wonder if it was in fact the
snappers that were in the barn garage that was in the back of the The
autopsy reports also indicated extensive body mutilation to Philip Henry and Jimmy Riddle. The
entire right side of Riddle's body from the shoulder to the hip had been torn
away. In previous testimony, doctor Nizam Perwani, the medical examiner, observed
that this could have been the result of the collapse of the building or an
encounter with a tank tread. Philip Henry's body was interred during the year following
his death. However, a new autopsy was requested by Jimmy Riddle's relatives to
settle the circumstances surrounding the missing portion of Riddle's body and the gunshot wound to
his head. Doctor Ron Grazier, the forensic pathologist who conducted the examination,
concluded in his findings that the damage to Riddle's skeletal remains is consistent with a
tank having torn the body apart. A forensic examination of the bullet entry wound
in Jimmy rid skull could not be conducted because the evidentiary portion of the skull
was missing. Doctor Pierwanny performed the original autopsy and was asked to provide a
certified copy of his report for comparison. According to Riddle's relatives, the local
Texas authorities and US Marshals refused to allow doctor Pierwanny to turn over the documents.
We got to doctor Peerwanni's office trying to get the information on my brother
Jimmy Riddle. Doctor Peerwanny told me that he didn't know why they kept trying
to keep the information from us. He didn't know what they were hiding,
and that he had the information, but he was ordered by the US Marshals
and the JP's not to release any information to me all Americans were watching events
fold at the front of the building. The FBI's infrared video shows what took
place at the rear of the structure. What a flare really does is it
takes an invisible radiation, which is called infrared radiation, and it converts it
into visual radiation. You might say that we can see with the eye.
What we have here is a tank infantry type of an operation. As the
tank moves forward, two men have dropped out of the escape patch, they
roll over, and as they roll over, they open up with automatic gunfire.
We've measured the actual time of the individual flashes, and they occur at
a fraction of a second, in some cases a thirtieth of a second.
There is absolutely nothing in nature that can cause thermal flashes to occur in a
thirtieth of a second. Somebody related or who had prepared a film or analyzed
a film. Representatives of the Department and representatives of the FBI went over it
in detail and concluded that there was no basis for suggesting the shot that shots
had been fired. As the tank crushes the roof of the gymnasium, gunfire
can be seen streaming into the dining room from positions in the courtyard. I
stopped counting after about sixty two individual shots. Interviewed on NBC's Meet the Press
on May the fourth, nineteen ninety seven, FBI Director Lewis Free stated that
no shots were fired by any federal agents outside of the compound and that allegations
raised about gunfire seemed to be based on some inferences from infrarey flash patterns and
heat patterns. I think the overwhelming evidence clearly shows that no shots were fired.
It's indicative of sunlight reflecting off something and registering on the flare. It
could be a thermal pattern. If it were a thermal pattern, there is
nothing that persists from that, so therefore it is more likely to have been
reflected light off of something shiny, in which the sunlight now gives an apparent
temperaturize. From the basic physics, it's safe to say that it's impossible for
the Waco flair to detect any solar reflections of any kind on our wish list.
As investigators was taking a harder look at the flair, the Congressional staff
was never able to find or take advantage of a genuine fleer expert to watch
the Fleaar video with US and to understand exactly what we were seeing. By
comparison, this Department of Defense FLEAR video taken in Somalia in October of nineteen
ninety three as troops exit a helicopter shows gunfire similar to the thermal signature on
the Fleare videotape. At Waco, a former analyst from the US intelligence community,
Maurice Cox, tested the FBI's claim applying the principles of solar geometry.
For an aircraft flying at an altitude of nine thousand feet, a flash anomaly
occurring on the ground would be visible in an area only one hundred feet wide.
Frame by frame measurements of the Fleur videotape showed a repetition of ten flashes
per second, the same rate as a machine gun firing at six hundred grounds
permitted according to the Sunlight Reflections Report. In order to duplicate these multiple flashes,
the reflective surfaces would have to be exactly the same shape and size and
positioned in an array too precise to occur by chance. To record sunlight reflections
at ten flashes per second, the FBI small aircraft would have had to travel
at mock one point eight, nearly twice the speed of sounds. The sun
Reflection report concluded that the flash signatures on the Waco flare video could only have
been caused by gunfire. In January nineteen ninety nine, mister Cox challenged Director
Free and Bureau scientists to disprove his findings. They did not respond. If
someone comes to me to understand the data, I need to tell them the
uncertainty associated with it. If the government is only telling them this was not
a field of fire, well the government is refusing to look at this,
and anybody with their playing eyes could see, well, something's going on there.
You know, when you think of a fact. They're shooting automatic weapons
fire into a building with children in it. There's something wrong. Doctor Allard
has stated that this video shows gunfire being directed into Mount Carmel from the outside
of Mount Carmel on April nineteenth. The only people that could have come from
would have been federal agents. Other flashes can be detected on the Fleer tape
within an hour of the fire, such as this detonation in the courtyard,
which has a thermal signature that is consistent with a hand grenade exploding, and
more. Gunfire can be seen near this tank. But if the FBI's claim
is true and the hostage rescue team didn't fire it, Ranch Davidians, then
there is another possibility. According to what we saw written in the Book of
Nahem, we were to undergo a military style attack. We were to be
attacked by tanks and people from the military. On the use of military personnel
and heavy equipment against US citizens, other questions linger how much was used and
why there was concern expressed that the FBI had only one hostage rescue team and
they were tiring. Do you recall that to conversation in that meeting? I
recall I believe I asked for that meeting. Yes. On April fourteenth,
just five days before the fire, a meeting was held between Attorney General Janet
Reno, the FBI command team, and Special Forces commanders Brigadier General Peter J.
Schumacher and Colonel Gerald Boykan of Delta Force. The purpose of this meeting
was to convince Reno to authorize a final assault at Waco. Military is trained
to find, fix, and destroy the enemy. You don't worry about warning
your military enemy of constitutional rights. What is generally known or known in public
as the as Delta Force is a reality called Cobbat Applications Group. So anybody
who asks about Delta will get told with a straight faced by the Army that
no such organization exists. What organization does exists as Combat Applications Group and their
state admission is to perform counter terrorism operations overseas and defensive US interests. Earlier
in an opening I gave this morning with regard to the Posse Kammaitatis Act,
just to refresh my colleague's memory, the Katatas Statute is a criminal statute that
states that it's a crime to use any part of the Army or air force
to enforce the laws of the land and less authorized by Congress or the Constitution.
There is in my judgment, it is absolutely clear that no law was
violated, no action was taken that comes close to violating Posse Komitatis or any
other law. General Huffman, is that your Do you agree with that?
A Congressman? So far as the Army's involvement in this, I would say
that is correct Army delpha Amy, Charis Team, or any other military operational
asset. The question is are we getting any help from from the military.
We can the Delta teams. He asked the questions, are we getting help
from the Delta team and we're not. In mid March nineteen ninety three,
I attended a Senior Executive Staff meeting at CIA Headquarters and involved senior agency management
along with the liaison officers from the US military, in particular from Delta Group.
The briefing centered on Delta's operations in Waco, Texas. This previously classified
military document confirms the presence of Delta Force at Mount Carmel with approval of the
Joint Chiefs of Staff. An observer was deployed to the scene on March twenty
first, nineteen ninety three, accompanied by three other operators also characterized as observers.
One particular soldier was questioned by a member of the hearing and pressed and
pressed. He did not want to reveal even the existence of Delta Force and
finally had to admit that they were present. Originally, I was told that
there was just going to be one or two Delta personnel there as observers,
But during the briefing it was mentioned that there was over ten Delta operators at
Waco, Texas and they were not there merely as observers, but would be
participating in any type of operational or tactical effort against the Branch Davidians. My
understanding is that in some way the US Military Delta Force were advising the hostage
rescue team from inside the tanks or inside Brady fighting vehicles, or were present
at the sniper posts to provide support or assistance. And those types of activities
to me would mean for deployed, they were not back at a conference room
or table giving advice or and you ought to think about this, you thought
they were out there a working shoulders soldier with the HRT. Approximately a year
after the Waco incident, I was deployed overseas in Europe and I had the
chance to meet some of the Delta operators that I had been on previous assignments.
They had told me several several different occasions during my meets with them in
Europe that not only were they forwardly deployed at Waco, Texas, but they
were actually involved in a gunfight with the Branch Davidians. When you see the
individuals roll out from the tank and come around the size and start shooting into
the building, what they're doing, they're defending the vehicle, f HRT or
kind of applications group, whoever was pulling the triggers, expected resistance, expected
shots to be fired. Then their moves on April nineteenth made tactical sense.
But I did talk to some Combat Applications Group guys and they did confirm that,
yes, the portions of B Squadron were there poland triggers. There's no
doubt in my mind that the flashes on flair tape was far from us.
Any automatic or automatic weapon fire being returned into the building. I mean,
it's inconsistent to even think otherwise. There were people there on the ground with
automatic weapons, and flashes such as that only come from one thing, and
it comes from rifle barrels that are that are firing back into the building.
Their operators had penetrated the buildings on several occasions, planning surveillance devices, listening
devices, sensors, and on one occasion I believe it was April seventeenth,
late seventeenth or eighteenth, Koresh was actually within six feet of one of the
operators and they RADI went back to the Tactical Operations Center for permission to grab
them. Within minutes, the word came back from Justice Department. We already
have a plan in place. That plan, of course, being what happened
in April nineteenth. To me, that that would be an offensive gesture when
you enter someone's home. That's pretty offensive, and I would personally have a
problem with that. I think that it violates everything that I've been taught that
you don't use the military against civilian personnel. Inness Country reports that the military
Delta Force may have been involved in one away or another. Will you make
an inquirg into that as well. We will pursue any issue that is at
at in question. I will not let this become a show trial with law
enforcement as the defendant. These Waco hearings must not degenerate into a kangaroo court.
It is unfair for us today to look at what law enforcement did at
Waco in a vacuum, and it is unfair to twist the facts, making
law enforcement the villain and David Koresh the lawbreaker the victim. David Koresh,
you may not think he was innocent. The mothers and the fathers of the
children you may not think were innocent, But those seventeen children that died here
were truly innocent. We had heard during the meeting various scenarios that they were
going to use down in Waco, Texas to try to bring a speedy recovery
or a speedy end to what was taking place down there. And at that
time, gas was talked about, a couple other situations where non lethal situations
were talked about, and the primary concern around the table was a lot of
the people that a lot of the Branch Davidians that were inside the building,
we're willing or did not want to end their lives in such a fashion,
especially the seventeen children that were down there on the throne that out before you.
Where God is he going to save you? How? Well? People
ask why we didn't let the children out? If they saw all that was
happening and they were in there with their children, would they have sent them
out to the animals outside that was shooting at them and doing all those terrible
things. No, federal law enforcement officers obviously did make some tactical errors prior
to enduring this tragic incident, and I hope this body, somebody holds them
accountable. Please, I'm pleading with you, somebody out there on the federal
government still screwed up big time, Okay, but they didn't start this fire.
Based upon the ATFS arson investigation, accelerance were used at all points of
origin of the fire. There's no disagreement between us that this fire was intentionally
started inside the compound by the people in there using flammable liquids as acceliments.
I don't remember who it was, but he was pouring this liquid on the
floor, a bubble of saying pour it inside, poured outside. It was
clear to us from listening to those tapes that the government was going to be
able to prove that the Davidians, at least some of the Davidians had a
plan, and that some of the Davidians were aware of this plan. I'm
sure that the FBI down there had a lot of fiber optics, audio and
visual with what we're installed in the building there that I'm sure they knew exactly
what the French Davidians plans were, what their intentions were if there was an
attack ends the buildings, such as a gas attack like that, if they
believe we were going to try to enter the compound and then way to the
over here. Sounded like there was one comment, We're going to wait until
they come in before we like this. Why in the world would the FBI
make the assault knowing that information the borderlines on criminal misconduct For the FBI to
make that assault when they knew that he was going to respond like that,
particularly on the most windy day of the year. The FBI claimed that it
never used pyrotechnic CS rounds munitions capable of starting a fire. However, in
this footage made prior to the fire, two agents are seen firing projectiles from
an M seventy nine grenade launcher into the storm shelter at the north end of
the building. Seconds later, white smoke pours from the shelter. According to
CS expert Colonel Rex Applegate, any tear gas that create smoke is considered pyrotechnic.
There have been some unfortunate reporting talking about that if tear gas were utilized,
it would deprive the children of oxygen and it perhaps could be fatal.
What they were describing is not the type of tear gas that we were that
we are using. We're using a non pyrotechnic tear gas which does not deprive
them of oxygen, so it is not a lethal type gas. This is
the US military Mark six fifty one CS projectile recovered in the aftermath of the
Mount Carmel fire. It is pyrotechnic and has a burning time of twenty five
to thirty seconds. It generates a distinctive cloud of white smoke. I am
very, very troubled by the information I received this week suggesting that pyrotechnic devices
may have been used in the early morning hours on April the nineteenth, nineteen
ninety three, at Waco. At this time, all available indications are that
the devices were not directed at the main wooden compound, were discharged several hours
before the fire started, and were not the cause of the fire. In
the fall of nineteen ninety eight, unprecedented access to the Waco evidence lockers was
granted. The pyrotechnic projectiles identified in the crime scene photos were missing from the
evidence boxes. However, two additional forty millimeter munitions were found. These devices
are identified by the manufacturer's literature as pyrotechnic rounds. They were found in the
rubble behind the compound. These munitions were examined and the preliminary results indicated these
devices may have passed through the wood structure most years. I'm not embarrassed,
I'm very, very upset. The Arson report fails to identify the specific instruments
used to ignite the fires or the individuals that might have used those instruments.
As a result, no Arson charges were ever filed against any of the branch
Davidians. What is not covered in the Arson report is the presence of the
government's own pyrotechnic devices at the points of origin of the fire. This flash
bang device, for example, was found in the rubble of the dining room.
The flash that results as the detonation of this charge can cause a fire
in any area where there is a high concentration of volatile papers. In the
evidence locker, there are six pyrotechnic flashband grenades mislabeled as silencers or gun parts.
According to the Texas Department of Public Safety, they were found in the
southwest corner of the building, the dining room, and the chapel, all
three points of origin of the fire. Now, maybe the government, the
FBI, the ATF did some wrong things, but they didn't light the fire.
They didn't start the fire. That is not one of these questions that
is very debatable. There are times when you cannot keep your job and put
alternative explanations for data on the table. Any of us can think about,
yeah, we'll stand a building burn up. I don't think many people would
do it, and I don't understand why they didn't come out. At twelve
ten pm, the Fleer videotape shows at least two automatic weapons being fired into
the back of the burning dining room, the only undamaged exit from the building.
And what we have is we have then firing automatic weapons and they're firing
into the burning building, and like some sort of a cowboy movie, they're
retreating down the building and firing as they're retreating. If I cannot remember something
while sickening that I had the dude to witness this. According to the Justice
Department report, at least fifteen people were found shot to death at this location.
The FBI conducted ballistic tests, which the Justice Department later termed inconclusive and
rudimentary at best. Whether or not you argue that some people committed suicide,
yes, that may be, but I would say the majority of the people
the bodies that I saw were clear cut homicide victims. When there was shooting
going on and things like that, it's kind of tongue in cheeked. And
then ten man and say, why didn't you come out as a peace officer.
You're trained that killing people and taking someone's life is the absolute last thing
that you ever want to do. Period. You signed on to help people,
you didn't sign on to kill them. If the opinion is rendered that
there was no shots fired from any other location other than from within the building,
i e. Meaning the branch Davidians shot themselves through suicide or homicide,
then the government is left with a position that we are not going to do
ballistics tasks on anyone's weapons, whether they be bureau officials or other officials that
might have been on the scene. The forensic evidence on the bodies themselves is
very trouble. The bodies were preserved in a frozen or near frozen state inside
two trailers for the purpose of examination. For some reason, those trailers,
who are under the control of the FBI, were allowed to not have any
electricity running to them, and the bodies deteriorated beyond which any sort of forensic
evidence could be gathered. And we were very, very troubled by that.
The crime scene was declared a biohazard, and since the FBI predetermined that this
was a mass suicide, the crime scene investigators were instructed to sift, wash,
and bleach the evidence associated with the bodies, destroying much of its evidentiary
value, grinding up all the crimes. And I'm saying to myself, on
what the hell are they doing that for, except for they conveniently trying to
cover up something that they don't want to public To note, during the siege,
some of the women and all of the children were sent to the bunker,
located in the center of the compound. The bunker was an old church
records vault which had survived a fire several years before. It is here that
the remains of some of the women and the young children were found. Based
upon the fact that the majority of the women and children protected themselves by dousing
themselves with water and blankets, trying to keep the smoke to a minimum,
trying to prolong themselves their life in a nearly fireproof container, clearly demonstrates that
they weren't embracing the flame, that they were trying to flee the flame.
According to their autopsy reports, some of the children were still alive during the
fire, but based upon the condition of their bodies, there was evidence of
a deadly explosion. I read that the FBI on foot, entered the building,
shot the Davidians, and planted an explosive device on top of the church
vault that he called it. We referred to it as the bunker because it's
a concrete center block. Um. That's another theory that did not could not
have possibly happened in this particular incident. Referring to that explosion, the explosion
happened well after the building was totally destroyed it It was very unlikely that that
explosion was anything other than a propane cylinder. The fireball was created by a
ruptured propane tank on the ground adjacent to the bunker. But a large hole
in the roof of the bunker has never had an official acknowledgement or explanation.
What it tells me is that you had a demolition charge went off on the
roof. General Ben Parton, a former military explosive expert, testified that there
were two explosions. This footage shows the detonation of a high explosive device on
the bunker, which appears to ignite gas from a ruptured propane tank. After
completion of the FBI in Texas Rangers investigation, the bunker was bulldozed into rubble.
Six years later, in nineteen ninety nine, permission was granted to test
the residue from the bland. Strangely, however, that portion of the bunker
was not found after a thorough search of the rubble. That's a child's I
mean, that's just I would think the one year old. Yeah see this
boom? Yeah, you know. According to the FBI and ATF investigation,
the Branch Davidians did possess some low order explosives like gunpowder, but this would
not be capable of penetrating six to eight inches of steel reinforced concrete like a
high order explosive such as TNT. The blast hole at the top of the
roof you can plainly see the rebar is spent in. The damage to the
stainless steel refrigerator which appears to have been under the blast holes consistent with a
shape charge and the blast being directed downward into the room and this enclosed concrete
room would very likely cause them steam rupture and create a huge overpressure inside the
room that would pretty much kill everybody in there. To anybody who was under
this device when it was when it was blown, would have been horribly mangled,
probably dismembered, pretty much like being thrown into a grain thresher. Having
examined still photographs and videotape of the bunker, it was apparent to me that
this was caused by a shape charge. But what bothers me is who would
have the audacity to use such a charge rather than risk your own people going
in there and trying to shoot it out with them. That's a standard.
That's a standard tactic in city fighting. Children and women unarmed, trying to
save their lives, that's who he's talking about, trying trying to protect themselves
from and military operations have built up terrain to use explosives in this manner to
kill people in the targeted room that you're going to tack. The military's advice
to the FBI was that it should focus on the leadership and capture or kill
David Koresh. It was to our benefit that we were able to ben him
from carrying out the second part of his prophecy, and that is that he
intended to kill as many members of law enforcement as he could before his members
were killed. It was to our benefit, and we're most fortunate the number
of our none of our people were injured well, it's very obvious that the
effort there was demonstrated there assured that there would be no survivors. In the
church records, Vault was the Attorney General pressured by the White House to end
the siege. What were the roles of Webster, Hubble and Vince Foster who
actually made the decision to use cs gas with twenty two children inside the Davidian
compound after two years? Why is there still no clear answer rangers had Remember,
it's pretty darnlikely that the Clinton's had Vince Foster killed two culties. Working
with the FBI, they had a major responsibility, We had our responsibility,
and they seemed not to go hand in hand. And as I recall,
I testified for Congress about having a name in the White House. I could
have called to solicit the support of the federal authorities in our objective, and
it turned out to be Vince Foster. Mister Hubbull, do you recall a
meeting on or about the fourteenth or fifteenth of April that you attended with Vince
Foster, with mister Neusbaum, and I guess some others, in which was
really a churning point. Did you or others at that meeting recommend or was
there any discussion about the use of military force or equipment. There was not
any discussion about use of military force. There was discussion of having the military
evaluate the FBI's plan. The briefings by General Schumacher and Colonel Boykan of Delta
Force gave Attorney General Janet Reno the assurances she needed to okay the FBI assault
plan. Presidential Counsel Vince Foster was the White House's point man for the Waco
affair. Ninety days later, Foster commits suicide. He had a lot of
things on his plate at the time, the firing a travel office being one,
but nobody was killed in that one. What I think was really on
his mind was Waco. To this day, I don't understand what he meant
by the FBI lied to me. Missus Foster said that her husband was depressed
about a number of matters, and she ranked the Waco tragedy very high,
as any of us would who are responsible for such an activity that resulted in
such a tragedy. In this FBI three O two report, Missus Foster indicates
that her husband was troubled by the deaths of the children at Waco, and
believe that everything was his fault. When you are troubled by something and you
feel responsible for something, you can only feel responsible for it if you could
have done something about him. And I would take this as a cover up
of the Clinton's actions to actually kill him because they were afraid he was going
to talk. Perhaps mister Foster felt that he could have done something about Waco,
whether he tried to intervene, whether he was overruled. The extensive use
of governmental privileges against grand jury and criminal investigations has of course been a pattern
through this administration. Most notably, the White House cited privilege in nineteen nine
three to prevent Justice Department and Park Police officials from reviewing documents in Vincent Foster's
office in the days after his tragic death. The day after Vince Foster died,
I got a phone call from a fellow who used to be on my
squad, who told me that they not explaining who they were, but they
had agreed that the FBI was going to come over and do a regular crime
scene search of Vince Foster's office. During the Whitewater investigation, Deborah Goren testified
she saw a Waco file in the security file cabinet next to mister Foster's desk.
In addition, Michael Chertoff, counsel for the Senate Committee, inquired about
a letter by Vince Foster involving Waco. Neither was ever recovered during or after
the crime scene search, and their whereabouts are still unknown. However, Whitehall's
Secret Service agent, Harry O'Neill testified that Maggie Williams was seen removing files from
Foster's office the night of his death. Thomas Castleton, an intern and mister
Foster's assistant, testified that he had also removed a box of files. Just
let you know where we are in the state of the record. We have
received evidence that, in fact the box was in mister Forster's office. Did
you understand the box you were taking up was a box of files that originated
in mister Forrester's office. I did understand that, sir. You heard that
from Maggie Williams. Yes, And in fact it was Maggie Williams, the
chief of staff to the first lady that you accompanied in taking this box up
to the residence. Right, that's right. What were you told by Maggie
Williams about why the box was being taken up to the residence. I was
told that the contents of the box needed to be reviewed, reviewed by whom
by the First Lady, Maggie Williams was missus Clinton's chief of staff. Maggie
Williams took out, can't you can't call anything else but what it is.
It was evidence. One of the interesting things that happens in an investigation is
you begin to get anonymous phone calls, and we in fact received anonymous phone
calls from Justice Department managers and attorneys who believed that pressure was placed on Janet
reno A byweb Hubble, and pressure that came from the First Lady of the
United States. Now, we believed that because the military was President Waco in
some capacity, that the President may have made a decision to allow that to
happen, following some sort of a legal protocol where he says this is of
such a serious nature, they need to be involved. And we asked for
those documents and asked to see National Security Council documents, and we're not provided
with any information that enabled us to reach a conclusion. It's a serious allegation
that the President interfered with changed moved up the decision, and we can't just
bandy these things around unless we have some real evidence. If Combat Applications Group
was on the ground that day, actually, Paul and Triggers, the origin
of that operation would have come directly from the White House, who would have
come from the President, because Combat Applications Group is, for all the tests
of purposes, the President's private army. It was discussed at the meeting that
the senior levels of the Clinton administration had authorized Delta to be deployed two Waco,
Texas, and not just two or three people deployed there, but enough
people there to get the job done. As we come to an end,
all of us are looking for anything that happened in these hearings after eight days
and nights to indicate not that General areno had something to do with this,
but now the President, well, after we've exhausted that bit, the only
one left that I can think of is the butler. Maybe the butler did
it. I am surprised you hadn't tried disappointed a butler. By now,
our disappointment could not have been greater as professionals and as humans who care about
the plight of others. When the investigation was terminated by Congress. As I
count up the deaths here eighty six and then if you want to make the
leap, then Oklahoma City has some connection because it was done on the anniversary
of Waco. That's another one hundred and sixty, give or take. So
you're talking two hundred and forty six lives. And for this Congress to try
to oversee what the hell happen and how did it happen, it just seems
to be talking about the butler did it at a little capricious, a little
frivolsten. That's just my opinion. I yield my time to mister mccumman.
It's a struggle we've had. I was an attorney general in the Freedom Information
Act was passed, and the government hated the Freedom of Information Act. That
hated me for pressing for it, because they don't want to be questioned about
what they do. They don't want to have to explain what they do.
And yet, if you want to be a free society, if you want
to have justice, if you want to avoid a police state, you better
know what your government does. You better insist upon a right to know what
your government does. Even though you have a twenty million dollar investigation. You
don't have twenty million dollars answers. There's nothing about Waco I feel good about.
But imagine seeing small children disarticulated with bullets and debris and having to pick
up their body and their head comes off in your left hand, and their
body comes apart in your right hand, And I mean that leaves a horrible,
absolutely indelible etched in your brain memory of a tragedy. The prosecutors during
our trial try to prove conspiracy and murder, and all eleven defendants were found
by a jury to be not guilty of those two charges. And I think
that, to me is for the President and for any media or anybody in
this committee to continue to refer to us as utterers. I feel that's unjust.
The government cannot be proud about what they did on February the twenty eighth,
They cannot be proud about what they did on April the nineteenth, and
they certainly can't be happy about what this jury said to them today. We
found all of the defendants not guilty of conspiracy to commit murder and of murder.
In essence, there was no way we could say that they did not
use firearms. I think the jury totally rejected the scary idea that came out
in final argument. If someone who would study a certain religion by a virtue
of the way he thinks would be guilty of a conspiracy to murder federal agents.
That I think is one clear message that came out of this trial,
but we came to realize too late to correct, was that we could not
have found them guilty of using firearms without having them found them guilty of either
conspiracy to murder or murder. Those two charges were tied together. When the
judge looked at the jury's verdict, he said that this finding of guilty to
commission of a federal offense is inconsistent. I'll throw it out. But then
he changed his mind, and when it came to sentencing, he stood the
jury's verdict on his head. He said in his sentencing speech that since they
were guilty of using a weapon and the commission of a federal offense, he
would find that the federal offense was murder and conspiracy to commit murder. He
went further on to say, you murdered not only the ATF agents, but
your own co religionist. Federal sentencing guidelines allowed Judge Smith to choose the sentence
of between five and forty years. He gave all but two defendants the maximum
sentence of four years in federal prison. I knew what was going to happen.
I knew what the agents were going to say. What They're gonna blame
myself, and I was in there for but you know, it was just
something I had to go through. I'm a school teacher and it's, you
know, a good opportunity for me to get away from the kids and forget
a bit all about them for a while and just come and relaxed for a
while. Paul Fadder was not at the initial February twenty eighth shootout with the
ADF, but was charged with aiding and a betting and was also given a
maximum sentence of fifteen years. I don't like being in prison, you know.
I don't like this situation. It's it's a feudal experience. I don't
understand it. I don't think it's making me a better person or it's but
I believe it's all for a reason. The system had every opportunity to be
fair and honest and truthful and treat us properly, and they chose not to.
They chose to lie, to deceive, and to cover up, to
cover their positions or their retirement or their whatever it may be. And that's
something they got to deal with. They got to look at their selves in
the mirror every morning and say that, hey, I made decisions that ended
up costing a lot of people their lives. I want to say that Branch
Davidians and not anti government, why not anti law enforcement? And I'm sorry.
There are four agents that have did and they're love a wounded, but
we lost eighty five friends and family too kind it was unnecessary. I hear
a lot of people saying that, you know that they hope this will never
happen again. What happened to us. I believe that what happened to us
was just the beginning. Many of us had a heartfelt concern for individuals that
chose to a particular lifestyle that was a little bit of an off brand lifestyle
and who were cavalierly thought of as unimportant and thought of as people who simply
committed suicide or simply burned themselves up. And that claim being so widely held
by everything is also the type of thing that the investigator wants to get in
under and really find out if there's another side of the stream. They were
my life. They meant everything to mine, and I still do no thank
God for the hope. But one day, and I hope it's soon,
that I'll be able to put my arms around them and play with them a
game and take care of them, God willing. We cannot put this government
in the seat of God and go along with this government and say, look,
you can take life anytime you will please, just like you did right
before our very eyes. We had a play by play, just like it
was a football game. But you can't do this, you know. I
think the media needs to be the watchdog for the people. I mean,
that's why it's the first endment, if not second, not to sixteenth,
it's the first amendment. Somebody way back when thought it was very important that
the media would be the watchdog imy and in this system of checks and balances,
and in this instance it was a sleep. If we choose to learn
from our mistakes, it is from admitting our errors that we come closer to
understanding how we might prevent tragedies like these from happening in the future. Those
who cannot admit their mistakes. Well, all we can do is offer our
prayers. Our government is an imperfect one compromise of imperfect people. It can
only be as good as we choose to make it. We have come too
far to quit or to coast. We must continue to make it better.
We must not allow ourselves to become bitter, only better. Perhaps the greatest
lesson to be learned is often the most difficult to remember until it's too late.
And that is life is very precious. It happens in moments, seconds,
not minutes, not hours, but in moments. And let us forgive,
but let us never forget as we move from ashes to understanding. As
a result of the evidence uncovered by the making of this documentary, both the
US Senate and House of Representatives have opened new investigations, which are expected to
result in full congressional hearings. This was a long time ago, though.
In addition, US Attorney General Janet Reno has appointed former Senator John dan Forth
to conduct a full and independent investigation to determine the facts behind the Waco tragedy.
All of us, all right, that's the end of it. He's
playing music at the end. I believe here the rest of it. Let
me just little check make sure and all. I'm pretty sure it's just music.
Fillt thing out. Yeah, let's see. Yeah, yeah, it's
all the music at the end. Okay, So there you have it.
I don't know if I have anything I need to say after all that,
um, pretty emotional throughout that I'm not afraid to say it can't Dancy and
kids getting hurt? All right, Well that's that. You'll see me again.
It's pretty soon with the return of Jack Anthony, a good friend of
ours, for the Jack Anthony Show that I'll be coming up in a live
stream. Susan, my daughter goes to bit bye oh yeah, and uh
thanks at the bottoms. You want to help people out, and you can
go to semper fri lc dot com and get the link by clicking the picture
of doctor Bonzo to go druxy to the site and then keep on goods right
there for you know what. All right,