Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willshire, host and how
fitting tonight is Super Tuesday, and with a guest like Dave Marler, it's
Super Tuesday here as well. I hope there are great researchers in the future.
Um like David is, he's kind of a dying breed. Um.
He gets really deep into whatever he's investigating. And for people that are new
paying paying attention to this subject, pay attention to whatever Dave Marler, David
Marlin has to say. In my opinion, I'm not telling you what to
do, I'm just suggesting there. For instance, you know, there's no
one in the entire planet that has done the job with the Triangle UFOs that
David has done. It's a stellar book. I have it. I suggest
if you have an interest to go out and get it. It's called Triangle
UFOs and Estimate of the Situation and it's it's it's well, it's as good
as it gets on that type of investigation and very very interesting. I learned
so much from reading that book. Well, Dave's focus has turned to a
very interesting case and that is a topic. We are going to talk about
that and we're going to be playing some audio clips and we're going to play
actually, after a break, we're going to play a video clip for those
people over on YouTube. But don't worry, the podcaster will still get to
listen to audio on that. And this was a case that happened. It's
an unknown case to kind of lost in time and David dug it out of
time fifty some odd years ago. This happened back in nineteen sixty four in
New Mexico, and it's an incredibly credible I have David has shared some things
with me, and so I'm real, real excited about tonight's show, Super
Tuesday Show. So I want to thank everyone that helps out with show.
There's people that help out with support. I really do appreciate that. And
there's a lot of people behind the scenes as well. And I want to
thank Peggy as well. She helps out with the Facebook page. I think
she's been doing six years or something like that. I looked the other day
in our first email back and forth, it was two thousand and twelve,
so she'd been at this a long time. And next month we're going to
have our four hundredth show. That's yes, that's right, four hundred show
on this we'll do a little celebration of some kind when that happens. I
do appreciate every listener to the show, and again I do appreciate the supporters.
Anyone can help out if you're not helping out. We have a Patreon
page and that information is white right on our website, so check that out.
We also have we have a blog, as we do every week from
Charles Lear. He's down in New York. He writes blogs for us,
does a wonderful job. I love this week's blog. It's called when UFOs
We're Flying Saucers, and check that out. He's got a lot of information
and in his blogs also he links to two things that he is writing about
in the article. So that's on podcast ufo dot com. And the link
to this YouTube channel is on there for those of you who are not on
YouTube, you can check it out sometime. There's also how to subscribe to
listen to the podcast in your media player, and again everything is on the
website Sticher, you name it. All that information is there, and we
also have a banner up for the Ariel phenomenon. I'm going to be meeting
up with Randall Nicholson soon and find out what the heck's going on with that
film. I can't wait for that to come out. There's going to be
a lot of really great films coming out this year, including James Fox,
The Phenomenon, and Too Bad. They both have a similar name, Ariel
Phenomenon. I don't think you're going to get them confused though. So with
all of that, I think I was going to talk a little bit about
UFO News, but you know what, We're going to have a jam packed
show with our guest tonight, so I don't want to take any more time.
David, Welcome to the show. Thank you, Martin. It's great
to be here again. I'm very excited about tonight's discussion. And as I
think I mentioned to you offline, this is my first time publicly discussing this
case anywhere. That's right. I meant to say that I meant to make
more of a big deal of that part of it. Well, it truly
is an exclusive for UFO Podcast in that respect, and so I've shared some
information, as you alluded to the audience, regarding this case, just to
kind of give you a flavor of what it entails. And to your point,
we do have a lot of material to cover before we get into it,
though, I always like to take a step back, and I'll be
mentioning this in some upcoming conferences where I'll be presenting this in April. A
lot of people I've noticed online will comment with regard to maybe my Farmington flying
saucer or model research from nineteen fifty or the Battle of la from February nineteen
forty two, Well, why are we talking about these old cases? And
the question I often get asked you do as well, is what's new?
Well, my attitude is I don't care what's new. I care what's credible,
and you is not necessarily equate with credible. In fact, I would
argue many of the historic cases were better documented than what we're receiving today.
And by that I mean when you have newspapers and news reporters going out to
the homes of the eyewitnesses. It doesn't necessarily confirm the veracity of their claims,
but at least the investigators and the researchers from that time did their due
diligence, went to the person's home, established they are who they claimed they
are. Today, you know, we had these ubiquitous UFO reports being filed
by ufobob at Yahoo dot com and we don't even know who that is.
And in most cases the researchers, even though they're they're well meaning, they
don't have the resources to try to track down who that was that posted that
on whatever website you might find it. And so looking at these historic cases,
I think it's very important because, as I mentioned, they seem to
be more credible in many respects, especially when as we're going to see in
the case we're going to discuss this evening, this Hobbs, New Mexico case,
where we not only have the sighting of a light in the sky,
as most UFO reports are, we have the sighting of a structured object during
daylight hours, but more specifically a structured object during daylight hours that physically burned
and severely injured an eight year old boy. And what's interesting about this case
is the fact that after fifty six years, this witness has never come forward
publicly other than the initial media attention that it garnered at the time, and
even then, as you alluded to in the introduction, there was very minimal
UFO research done. This case was originally investigated by the APRO organization or Aerial
Phenomenon research organization headed up by Jim and Coral Lorenzen, but based on my
research, the extent of their investigation into the case consisted of just phone calls,
not even on site investigation. And in addition, before we delve into
it to what the appetite of the audience, this was also investigated and documented
in the newspapers from the time by the Hobbes New Mexico Police Department, and
in point of fact, the Federal Brewer of Investigation the FBI was involved in
this investigation. So we know something happened, but after fifty six years,
we're still trying to wrestle with what. And then as we get into the
discussion this evening again wedding the appetite of the audience, we'll talk about Hobbes,
but then hopefully we'll have time to talk about other cases that happen in
the wake of Hobbes that bear striking similarities. Yeah, Dave, you just
mentioned about you know, UFO Bob for instance, and I got it caught
up. I just want to tell you a situation. I think I mentioned
this on a prior show, but I got caught up a little bit with
everyone sending me this video and information about it was on YouTube and it looked
like a pretty darn good UFO video and in the video copy it said hundreds
of witnesses. Okay, there was no other video and there was no other
you know, no other there was no connection to those witnesses, So why
you know, I mean, I think that was a mistake of the person
that was putting up and I want to say it was a hoax. It
was a CGI hoax. It was a good one, but that was the
mistake of the person is talking about the hundreds of witnesses. I mean,
that makes it. It does cut with a lot of people because they won't
go any deeper than that. They'll just read it and say, wow,
what a sighting. You know, so you have to be careful. Yeah,
yeah, I get UFO videos email to me all the time, people
asking have you seen this? Have you seen that? Right? And I
think the one thing that we need to do if we're really going to take
the subject seriously. And then some people, admittedly they look at UFOs entertainment.
It's just a fun thing that they follow, and that's great, but
for serious researchers, I think we need to curb our hearts and allow our
minds to move forward when we look at things like this, because the videos
they have a visceral reaction you get you're like, oh wow, that's amazing.
You have to curb your emotions and approach it from an intellectual standpoint and
really try to analyze it, because if we just went with our emotions,
where would this field be. And I really try to inject some sobriety,
if you will, to the subject matter and try to maintain a well grounded
approach. My attitude is every UFO video is a hoax until proven otherwise guilt.
Well, unfortunately that's the case. And people say, with technology today
we have all these UFO videos. Well, that's true, but technology is
a double edged sword. Yes, we can capture more today, but we
also have much greater tools in the way of digital manipulation. And people send
them to me and I thank them for that, but I defer to the
video experts, the Mark d'antonio's of the world, people that no videographics,
video imagery, and video doctoring. I can look at it, but I
don't have an expert opinion in that area, so I defer to the experts.
So I usually will forward those videos on and you know, quite often
though, I get asked, what did you think of this latest video?
Personally, I don't have the free time to look at every YouTube UFO video
and touching on what you alluded to, Martin, there are active groups dedicated
to putting out fake UFO video. Yeah, that's why they're there, is
to just disseminate disinformation. And it's so funny. People within the UFO community.
There's a lot of conspiracy theorists, and they blame the government for spreading
disinformation. Your average citizens are out there hoaxing and perpetrating hoaxes and throwing them
out on the Internet. I've seen more in the way of civilians disseminating false
information than the government. Oh sure, yeah, yeah, there's a lot
that I've I have mentioned a couple of channels on this and there. It's
amazing. There are some real back ors, some people really behind those people,
and I get some mail, I'll tell you, and comments, you
know, on YouTube, I always get lots of those and I just ignore
those. So if someone's gonna make those nasty comments, if they're too nasty
and I happen to see it, I'll take it down. But I'm just
ignoring you, okay, but I think you get back to what we're going
to be talking about tonight. There are dramatic, fascinating cases that have not
been investigated, but have the backing of legitimate documents in the form of newspaper
articles from the time, police records, FBI records, things of that nature
that can back up a story. You're not just taking one individual at their
word. And but obviously we'll get into that a little bit more during the
course of the show. Yeah, let's let's go ahead, and why don't
we jump right in and talk about this situation. We got about eleven minutes
before our first break, so why don't we go ahead and just tell the
listening audience again. You've probably never heard of this one, so and it's
a good one. I'm really happy that you're sharing this and I was able
to get a sneak preview. It's good. Absolutely, yeah, absolutely,
well. I think I need to set the stage in the sense that I
was going through some old audio recordings from the James McDonald archives, and for
anyone that doesn't know doctor James McDonald, I would urge you strongly please google
him and look at the work that he's done prior to his death in the
early seventies. People quite often evoke j Allen Heineck's name, but I feel
that James and McDonald was really underrated as far as an investigator and a scientific
investigator at that He was an atmospheric physicist who taught at the University of Arizona
in Tucson, which is where his UFO archives reside. And going through some
of those old recordings which have been digitized and preserved, he had interviewed hundreds
of UFO witnesses going back to nineteen forty seven, and he made most of
these during the mid to late sixties. As I mentioned to you Martin previously,
I was driving and listening to these old audio recordings during the course of
my previous job where I used to travel extensively throughout the Southwest, and I
started listening to these recordings that we're going to share some of these clips when
we come back from the break with the audience. And I'm listening to this
case and I suddenly remember, out of all the thousands of cases I reviewed,
this reminded me of a case that I read about any appro bulletin,
and I don't know if we have that that we could pull up that image
that we have, but I think we have the article. It's actually just
given me the number and I will I will pull out that would be number
eight. All right, So here is number eight, and okay, that's
I just want to say this for these are for the people and YouTube.
We'll try to make this as painless as possible if you're listening to the podcast.
But that's why we numbered the images so up. Anyway, So go
ahead. Well, this is where I first read about this case. This
was the cover story of the APRO bulletin back in late nineteen sixty four,
and obviously the headline captures your attention. You know, boy burned in New
Mexico, and I thought that was rather interesting. But at the time when
I first read that APPRO bulletin, I was living in Saint Louis, so
there wasn't much I could do, living you know, in the Midwest,
and this occurred way down in the Southwest. But now living in New Mexico,
where I reside, I decided that given the fact that APRO investigated it,
and I might add deemed it credible at the time, seemingly credible,
and then now armed with the audio recordings from James mcdonell's archives, I decided
to try to track down this witness. A lot of these old cases that
people relegate to the dustbin, but when you think about it, nineteen sixty
four, eight year old child, do the math, it's quite possible this
witness was still in fact alive and kicking. And let's just say, for
the sake of time, after an exhaustive effort, I was able to track
down and establish that this witness was still alive. Can we just get I'm
sorry, Dave, pardon me for interrupting you, but I just want you
to tell the story you told me, and we got plenty of time on
how you tracked him down, and we won't use real names, but yeah,
just yeah, absolutely. As I was listening to these audio recordings when
I stumbled across these specific recordings on this case, I was driving to a
city in the Southwest as part of my territory that I covered at the time,
and I got into my hotel that night and I decided to try to
do some exhaustive research, try to track down and see if this person was
still alive. After a number of stumbling blocks late into the night, I
finally think I established the individual and found out where he lived. Ironically enough,
the address that popped up was the same city that I had traveled to
for business that day, and in fact, the hotel I was staying at
according to the maps that I drew up, the address that was giving me
for where this gentleman lived was two miles north of my hotel, and between
synchronic it's synchronicity, and between the hotel and his home was the hospital that
I was going to be doing business with the next day. So I literally
drove one mile down the road the next morning to do my job. And
once I had concluded that, I drove another mile down the same road,
and I was in this person's front yard. And in this day and age,
I don't typically do this, But unfortunately the numbers, the phone numbers
that I had tracked down were all invalid. So I was left with the
task, and I didn't have an email address, so I was left with
the task of literally showing up unannounced on this gentleman's doorstep, knocking on his
door and asking him where you burned by UFO back in nineteen sixty four.
So you can imagine how nervous I was in doing that, especially if I
had the wrong person. But long story short, I knocked on the door.
A gentleman answered the door, and he kind of gave me this look
like, oh my god, yes, I'm that individual, And we wound
up scheduling about a half hour to forty five minutes to have a conversation.
And later I followed up with the individual and did a more formal interview.
And I must say that there's been ongoing dialogue over the last several months,
not only with the witness, but his wife, who I might add did
not even know the details of this case until I showed up with my wife
to do the formal interview. And for years she used to ask him because
he had alluded to it, and she would ask him, in his name's
Charles, Charles, do you want to talk about that incident in sixty four?
And he would always respond with and she told me this herself, Nope,
I don't want to talk about it. If there's no need to talk
about it, don't want to talk about it. And I have to emphasize
before we get into the details of the case, this gentleman is as far
from a UFO believer as possible. I wouldn't label him a skeptic. I
wouldn't label him a believer. He's an average gentleman who is a businessman,
who has about as normal of a life as you could imagine. UFOs is
not part of his world, although in nineteen sixty four it broke through into
his reality with this case that we're gonna be talking about right right, I've
just to set the scene because of the people in the podcast don't know this,
but we're in your library, and first of all, I want to
say, you have some type of strange light coming through that's going like right
into your forehead and into your eyes. It is the angle of the sun.
But for the for the person that can actually see this on YouTube,
what we're looking at and you can look at this is the your UFO library.
Look at all those bookcases. Well we can see right now all the
filing cabinets, but how many And by the way, my paintings right in
the very background, the one I sent to you as a mountain with the
UFO flying over it. Anyway, U, if you had to guess how
many documents you have housed there right now, have you ever thought of that?
Oh, documents. I mean, if you use that in the general
term as far as newsletters, reports, things like that nature, I would
say probably tens of thousands. The only thing I can tell you definitively is
there's sixteen four drawer file cabinets full, and then there's also bens on top.
Because I'm literally literally running out of space here, and in fact,
in two weeks I'll be acquiring a new collection of research from Larry Hatch's family.
Larry Larry Hatch passed away about a year and a half ago. He
wrote one of the best few FO database programs back in the nineties, and
I corresponded with him back in ninety three, ninety four, ninety five time
frame, but after he passed away, I wrote a tribute article to him,
and the family is interested in donating his research materials here, which will
ultimately go to the University of New Mexico, which will survive for future generations
of researchers. That's right, And I'm sorry for taking this Jack for the
list, and that's dying to hear about this UFO case and what happened.
But we only have a couple of minutes before we're going into the first break,
So if you would, since we're on this jag right now, just
finish off. The University of New Mexico is eventually going to house and care
for these items. And do you still have the not the go fund me
but whatever the page that you had up, Is that still active? Yes,
the go fund me site is active. It can be reached through my
website David Marler UFO dot com, www dot David Marler ufo dot com and
it's on the main page. There is a link there that talks a little
bit about that. And in fact, you'll see the legal deed of gift
to you and M on there as well, and I talk about that,
and in fact, I've even lectured at you and M once. I approached
them and told him about the collection I had, and I've met with the
Dean of Library Library Science, the director of the Southwest Special Collections Group.
If you have an educated discourse a UFO subject, and you avoid conspiracy tales
and belief systems, and you focus solely on the facts, these people are
interested in learning more about it. And that's exactly how I approached it.
And I state that whether you relegate UFOs to fact fiction or folklore, can
we agree it's part of our history and as any other aspect of history,
shouldn't we preserve that And they completely unanimously agreed, and subsequent to that initial
discussion and dialogue, once they learned about my methodology and how I cite my
resources, which a lot of researchers, unfortunately in this field, don't do.
Cite your sources. Where are you getting this information? When I show
them it's coming through credible sources, newspapers, government documents. They invited me
to speak at U and M a couple of years ago and was able to
speak in the hallowed halls of Academia on the UFO subject, which was truly
an honor excellent wow. And this site, well, I mean, this
university is going to be taking care of archivally, taking care of these for
researchers for on and on and on. I think it's a wonderful thing you're
doing, and it's it just gives more confidence to someone that is considering,
you know, donating some things to you. And again I apologize to the
listener for not going diving right into this case. But we've got plenty of
time for that, and we are going to be coming right back right after
this break. I am taking a true break, and when I do,
we have to test out our audio and stuff of that for the clips that
are going to be coming up. So good. Yeah, we'll get into
the story and the clips right after this break. So hang on everyone,
we'll be right back or right about about three or four minutes right after these
messages. All right, welcome back to the show. I have to tell
you something, and that is it must be a conspiracy, Dave, because
I'll tell you what technical things seemed to happen around these shows. I can
make a real conspiracy theory out of this. But just before the show,
when Dave, Dave left for work this morning, he saw that Microsoft was
going to do an update, and sure enough, when he came home and
he was getting ready to connect, it said it was ninety updated. You
try to stop the update, but I guess they kind of forced him through.
So we spent some what do we spend like a half hour forty five
minutes the other day, Yeah, to make sure that we're going to be
absolutely no problems tonight. And during the break we had to take an extra
long break there trying to get the audio working and to no avail the update.
The new update decided that it was going to screw the audio, so
no matter what Dave was just trying to do, we could not get audio
to play through. At the fifty five minutes after the hour. We're going
to go into another break and we will make another attempt, but it's very
it's crushing because of the plan that we had to run these wonderful audio clips.
I'm trying to send them over to you, Martin and the hopes we
can still salvage this. Yeah, I mean, go ahead and try to
send them. I don't know if you can talk and send at the same
time. Oh yeah, but do that and I will forward them on to
KGr Hey Radio and get them to play them so we all can hear.
Yeah. I don't want to disappoint the audience. We're going to try to
make this happen, all right, So I don't know if you can multitask,
Dave, But if you happen to be able to do that, why
don't we get right into the case. Everyone's just waiting to hear about it.
Absolutely well. This occurred way back in on June second, nineteen sixty
four, around four o'clock in the afternoon. And what's interesting about this is
the fact that despite how dramatic the case is, as we alluded to,
there was very little in the way of investing Asian at the time, and
so there was really a lot of work on my part to try to establish
what transpired and some of those files right now, I think, and so
what we're looking at is kind of a retrospective investigation. A number of the
witnesses are deceased, including the mother and the grandmother of the eight year old
boy that was the victim in this case. However, the eight year old
boy obviously is the principal witness, and he was in fact still alive.
And I don't know if we can pull up real quick an image of Charles
what he looked like when he was eight years old, image number six.
You bet we'll get right there. Just a second. Here we go go
ahead here, and so that's Charles, and Charles was playing that day in
the back of the laundromat, which is grandparents owned in Hobbs, New Mexico,
back in nineteen sixty four. He has referenced in my interviews. It
was kind of a home away from home. It was one of the family
businesses, and he was playing out in the back lot, and he was
approximately eight to ten feet from the back door of the laundromat. His grandmother,
one of the owners of the laundromat, was standing just inside the back
doorway. The door was open, and she was trying to keep an eye
on him and keep an eye on things at the front of the laundromat.
And so as a result of that, she was her attention was diverted momentarily,
and she hears a or a whooshing sound in the air, and as
a result of that, her head turns, and whereas just minutes before she
saw her grandson playing in the back lot, she now saw him standing in
the back lot with this black top shaped object hovering one foot above his head,
belching fire down from head to toe and engulfing her grandson in this fire.
This all transpired in just a matter of several seconds, and the fire
disappeared, the object shot off, and the grandchild came running towards her with
his hair on fire, temporarily blinded as a result of being burned by this
object. And so that's kind of what set the stage for it. And
even though Charles was the person that was burned. He obviously could not observe
it as well as the grandmother, and so I just sent the files over
via Skype, Martin. I don't know if you can see those. Oh,
okay, all right, all right, very god, Yeah, go
ahead. I don't know if you have those, but we might be able
to get one queued up here in a little bit and we'll be able to
hear the grandmother. But what was very telling is as the as the grandmother
was relaying this to doctor James McDonald, she described that as soon as the
object departed, Charles ran towards her and his face was burned, hair was
on fire, and she described skin literally coming off of his face, falling
off of his face. In the aftermath of being burned by this UFO or
this unusual object, there was a nurse working or doing her laundry in the
front of the laundry mat. The grandmother shouted to her, they both are
trying to put the fire out. His hair was on fire at this point,
and just about that time, the grandfather pulled up in his vehicle and
she shouted saying, Charles has been burned. Get him to the hospital,
at which point they quickly shuffled him into the car and drove him to the
other side of town to the Lead General Hospital. And we may have an
image of that hospital just to kind of provide some context there. I think
it's image number fourteen, Martin, you bet okay, I got it.
And so they took him to the hospital where he was treated by a burn
specialist in the er, the emergency room. A doctor Badger was his name,
and from Charles's recollection. In my recent interview with him, he stated
that, as he recalls, he was a burned specialist out of Lubbock,
Texas that would do rounds in the emergency room there, and so he was
treated at the hospital. He was there for approximately a week, although he
had to go back for subsequent follow up visits over a period of a month
or two. The official proclamation was he suffered second degree burns. However,
both Charles and his mother had relayed to doctor McDonald that they were second and
third degree burns. The mother described what he looked like, as well as
the grandmother in the aftermath and the ensuing days and weeks after this incident,
they said his face had swelled up so bad you couldn't even see his nose.
He had a black sootie material deposited all over his face. Most his
hair was burned off. His ears looked like ground beef. They were,
as Charles told me, they were basically turned inside out, but they looked
like raw meat. His lips were burned severely. He was temporarily blinded,
and as a result of this, the only long term side effects that he
had or long term medical consequences he had as a result is his hearing was
damaged in his right ear and his eyes. He needed glasses shortly after this.
He didn't need glasses before this, but after the incident. I believe
it was doctor Taylor was the optometrist or the eye doctor that he saw.
After he had healed up. The doctor basically implied that he needed to have
glasses as a result of the heat that was exposed to his eyes. And
so since then he's worn glasses and he's had a hearing deficit in his right
ear. But that being said, the grandmother described flames burning all the way
down from his head to his toe, Yet the only telltale sign of a
burn was from his jaw line up, in other words, his neck,
his shoulders, his T shirt. He was wearing was completely intact. But
the grandmother very emphatically stated he was covered from head to toe and fire.
And so we have these incongruities, these things that we just can't explain.
And the other thing we can't explain is the fact that, despite the severity
of his burns, if you were to look at him today, you would
never know that he had succumbed to any type of burn. His ears are
back to normal, there's no scarring on the face. He's just your average
sixty plus year old gentleman. And you know, pardon me what I think
of I think your camera's off a little bit now you're looking over at an
angle. But I think the strangest part of this correct me if I'm wrong.
He had no pain. No pain. That was another unusual aspect.
Unusual. How can you be that burned and have no pain. It doesn't
make any sense to me. It's just amazing. It doesn't make any sense
at all. And in fact, it was interesting because you know he admits
that. In fact, you know he will state matter of factly, it
doesn't make any sense. I don't know what it was, I don't know
why it happened, but I know it happened, and you've seen the full
interview to get a flavor of the sincerity. He doesn't claim to have any
answers. The only thing he knows is he apparently was at the wrong place,
at the wrong time and had this very dramatic, very negative experience.
Another aspect of this, which is very interesting is when he was playing in
the back lot, his attention was drawn to this object that appeared just for
the audience's sake. He was in the back lot. Immediately next to that
was a back alley, and immediately after that was one story apartment building which
was probably little one bedroom apartments they were. It wasn't very fancy by any
means. It was probably literally a one bedroom apartment. And he said he
saw this black object appear over the roof of the neighboring building there across the
alley, and he stood up, and he stated, when I stood up,
I felt like it knew I was there, and I knew it was
there, like there was mutual recognition. And he stated that I had this
just uneasy feeling like I just needed to get out of its gaze. So
he stepped to the left. The object, in response stepped or moved to
the left. He then moved to the right. The object mimited his movements
and moved to the right. He then crouched down behind this black block of
this block of concrete that was there almost to hide from the thing. Then
he stood up and moved to the right of it. The object again mimicked
his movement, so two or three times we had this object mirroring his movements,
and as soon as he moved again to the right, the object,
within a split second, advanced towards him to move so fast that he stated,
I felt like it was almost as if a car's coming at you,
and you know you can't move in time. You just brace for impact.
And he closed his eyes. He clenched up like this in anticipation of this
thing. He said, I thought it was going to go through me,
But in point of fact, it didn't go through him. The object advanced
moved directly over his head, at which point it belched this column of fire
down that consumed his body, then disappeared, and then the object immediately departed.
Dave, this is just really fascinating for the YouTube person. We just
have the image up there now of the sketch of what he sketched out as
the black blob. It looks like a top. That's the best way you
can describe it. As when you're a kid you have these tops. They
usually have a stick on the top that you wrapped. The string around makes
spin around. So this is missing the stick, but it basically it looks
like a black top. He described it at the time and most recently as
a black top. He stated that it was approximately two to three feet wide
and five to six feet tall, so we're not talking a large UFO,
and I use that term literally unidentified flying object. We don't know what this
unidentified flying object was, but it was relatively small. This isn't the thirty
foot sleek silver flying saucer that we're used to hearing about in the older reports,
and so it's very interesting that we have this object. Interestingly enough,
in going through the historical data, I found a case that Jacques Valat talked
about in one of his early books, A Challenge to Science, and you
could literally overlay those two sketches the witnesses in France and their dimensions that they
described. Because it was European case was listed in meters. When you convert
the meters that they used to describe their object, which, by the way,
they described as a flying top. No surprise, it matches the dimensions
in feet that Chuck had given me. Yeah, isn't that's something? And
was that particularly if you're saying meters, then that was European? But wasn't
there some sightings in Georgia? Yes? Well, and that's that's what's really
fascinating about this case. Now, the date of the incident was June second,
nineteen sixty four, which was a Tuesday, And that probably means nothing
to the audience at this point, but there's a reason that I mentioned that.
When we start looking at other reports, and I've got some of the
reports right here that was on June second. Now we have a report that
many the audience members can look up. There was a case from Lavonia,
Georgia, where a salesman by the name of Buford Parham was driving home late
one evening and he saw a black top shaped object belching fire and it made
three passes at his vehicle as he was driving. He felt intense heat as
it moved around the vehicle, and in fact, it burned his arm.
His arm was read from exposure to heat as a result of this thing,
but he described it as a flying top black belching fire, very similar in
nature to what Charles described. Now, Charles's case occurred about two to three
weeks before. Now what's interesting about that is most accounts will state that it
occurred on Monday, June twenty ninth, But when I went to the original
investigator notes it did occur the night of June twenty ninth, but technically it
was Tuesday morning. It was around one o'clock in the morning. And again
there's a reason I'm saying Tuesday. After that, we had several other cases
in Georgia within an eighty five mile radius of each other that garnered many newspaper
articles and newspaper accounts, where multiple groups of people were describing a UFO that
was a black top shaped object belching fire. So we don't only have Charles's
description in Hobbes way over in Georgia, in the intervening or in the subsequent
of what six to eight weeks after that, we have other witnesses describing the
same thing. And I might add many of the cases in Georgia had local
law enforcement that showed up on the scene who also witnessed the UFO. Wow
we have, Dave, we do have the clips. Q. So is
there one in particular you'd like the audience to hear? Yes, Why don't
we take a look at number well, we have number five already. Let's
look at let me see here, just trying to see. Let's look at
number thirteen. No, I'm talking. I'm sorry. Let me be more
clear about that. We have thirteen up there. Always said clips. I
meant clips audio lips. Do would you like to listen to an audio clip?
Yes, that would be great. Do you have those? We're all
set, We're ready. Oh great, Which one would you like to hear
it? Let's uh the grandmother. Do you see one listed with the grandmother?
Uh? Race, hopefully you do and uh um again I apologize,
Um, I don't see I see uh missus at missus something. I can
only see a first few letters. Let me see here. I'll see if
I can pull that up real quick, and my apologies. He's done it,
he says, he's great. To go. Okay, go ahead and
roll the clip if you would. Let's hear the grandmother. Uh uh standing
on the inside. But I can see him real good. And I looked
down and I heard, uh, you know how we, you know,
fly? And then I looked out and my rand son was standing there,
and under this spar it looked like the black thing with three burns, and
it was right over his head and was standing straight up. And I was
so astonished that I couldn't see anything. I could see him and under this
star, this spire had him all covered to the ground, and I could
see him and under this spar, and I could see him trying to say
something. And just a few minutes he and this thing just like that and
left and he ran to me, and when he did the outside of his
flesh was falling off of his face, and the hair was burned on his
forehead so far up it had burnt earned the top of his harald. And
I grabbed him a little quick and uh. The lady that was there with
me said, old, put some water on it, and I said no.
But about that time I pulled him away from me, he was locked
around my waist and I said to him, I said, uh, oh,
the skin was falling off of his face. And so about that time,
his grandpa, a grandfather, my first husband, drove up and I
said, Charles is burn real bad. Take him to the doctor. And
so he taking him to the hospital to the merchants in room, and doctor
Badger was on duty and uh there and so he said, well, he'll
have to go put him in the hospital and uh he said when then he
came on back and I went on up, and he said, I don't
understand this burn. He said, uh, what kind of burn is this?
And I said, I don't know, doctor Batter, And I begin
to tell him what I had seen, and I think he thought, well
I was matching anything right at that time. And I said, doctor,
I'm telling you the truth. I said, this, whatever burned him,
come from this uh right now. IMiD uh uh air and just lit down
over his head. And I still think it, thought I was had lost
my mind and uh so uh then his face began to swelling, and uh
of course they didn't know what the outcome was gonna be. That night,
his eyes were swell. Who he his little face was, oh, just
swell, real big, and he just uh, I wanted to scat it
continually. We I had to sit by his bedside twenty four hours around the
clock to keep him from scracking him. Just turn the skin off. He
did so bad. And they didn't under eat. The doctor didn't understand that
either, but then uh, he got before he could come home, and
uh, it did it didn't leave a scar, and I stayed by the
Chyle said, uh, it's nearly around the park myself until he got the
uh or he could stayed by himself without scracking, and then of course we'd
leave him couple hours today. But then she had put vices on him the
last year because of this. The doctor there said it was because of this
burn. And I understand that his hearing is defect. Yes, uh huh,
yes, is that the clip day, Yeah, that's it. That's
the grandmother. Yeah, and that we just heard McDonald there for just one
second, right, yeah, correct at the very end there. Yes,
yeah, wow, very interesting the different things she said. But you know,
one of the things that is puzzling to me, and you know,
I know this is kind of a gruesome topic for a lot of people.
I think it is, but you know, she's talking about parts of his
face falling off. The guy has no scars. Yeah, don't you think
that is really really another strange aspect to this. It's it's very strange and
in fact, when you look through and we don't have time to obviously go
into all of them. But when we go through the newspaper accounts, the
police were at odds to try to figure out what was going on, and
rightly so, they approached this from a very practical standpoint. One of the
initial possibilities they thought might have happened was because this was June second, maybe
someone, since it's only a month from July fourth, maybe someone had a
Roman candle a block or two over and they fired a Roman candle off and
the ball of fire, this fire he saw was actually a ball of fire
from a Roman candle that hit him in the face. They were never able
to substantiate that. In fact, later newspaper accounts say that there there was
no merit to that. It was just one possibility that they were exploring.
Another one was that because it was a laundromat and you have boilers, maybe
some steam jetted out and burned him on the face. Or another one had
postulated another officer that maybe a ball of lent had flown out of one of
the vents that ignited and hit him in the face. But when they went
on site, they could find no tail tale signs, and in fact,
they couldn't even find areas of burning on the ground. Now, for those
that are familiar with the Southwest, there's a soil highly packed, dense clay
like soil called calichi, and Charles had told me recently that that's basically what
was back there. There was no vegetation, was just very hard. It's
almost like a natural conc if you will, right, He said, that's
all that was back there, and they tried to see if there was any
burn marks, but there was really nothing to burn because of the this Callichi
that was back there. It makes good Adobe's too, I believe, or
that that whole composition. But we're ready to go into break now. I
do think, you know, there's so many strange aspects to this. We
got a lot to cover, and we are going to during this break,
we are going to make another attempt at trying to make things happen, and
that will be the video clip. Hopefully we'll be able to do that,
so hanging. Everyone will be right back right after these messages. Hey,
everybody, welcome back to the show. We took a break there and we
tried our darndest to get the video clip, which also has a really good
audio. So this is what I'm going to attempt to do. I'm currently
in the middle of downloading this to my laptop and what I'm going to do,
or to say again, what I'm going to attempt to try to do
is capture the window, get it through the software so the people on YouTube
can get a bonus at the end of the show and the podcast listener can
hear the audio of it, of the interview with the witness. This is
a when do you do how long ago do you do that particular interview?
David? That was last fall, so last fall, so this happened last
fall. The interview, it's really good. So that is going to hopefully
be a bonus to YouTube. It's always tricky setting up the audio on a
situation like that. I will do my best. Be patient with me as
soon as we end the show tonight and hang in there if you want a
bonus, what is it about twenty some one minutes something like that. Yeah,
about eleven minutes, Actually eleven minutes, Okay, you'll have eleven minutes
after the end of the show. Sorry, over at KGr A Radio,
we can't do that over there, but hopefully the listener will get to hear
that. So let's let's continue on. We have actually we have an audio
clip we were talking about playing. Can you go into the detail of that
one in particular. Yes, absolutely so. Obviously I've recently interviewed the witness.
But again, James McDonald, to his credit, started looking into this
case four years after it had occurred. So the recording we heard earlier with
the grandmother was conducted in nineteen sixty eight, and right around that same time
frame, give or take a day, he had reached out to the mother
of Charles, and while speaking with Charles's mother, he said, buy any
chance with Charles happened to be there, and she's like, yes, he's
right here. So the next clip we're going to hear is Charles, the
burn victim, four years after the incident, relaying details to doctor James McDonald.
All right, roll it, hello, Charles. I wonder if you
could try to describe me, uh, the science and shape of the object
that came down over you. Why don't you know I could spinning cough like
it was spinning time. I like that. Ah, it was about not
hap to call a god was but it was not spinning a shape like a
top, not spinning as part as you when you were eight years old?
Then weren't you? And he covered my whole body that they don't invove my
faith, I mean give me it completely covered over you like a sack.
Yeah, and you don't about my faith. Didn't come down wherever you.
Well, let me try to describe it like a bucket or a can in
that sense. Now we get it. I could go to well, let's
see maybe I'm still right clear on that was it? Was it entirely above
you, like somebody holding something above or did it sit around you? Now
we didn't come back, don't go through. I didn't come down the alley.
Why did you first sit? It was coming over a building and then
it door done come down that. But getting over the top on it just
kind of went down at and luck was don't gonna feel my body, but
it didn't ever touch you. Yeah, I ain't covered my body hold on
and it brought my face to my whole body. My grandma said, my
whole body was just sudden, but it just black. Oh he see it
was the black. Well, did you ever feel the object to this point?
It was fun in my face. It was very hot thing. No,
it was kind of like food calling on your face. Did you see
anything like no, I shut my eyes. Did you try to run a
moment um? Well, whenever it was coming camp and blocks up there,
well my grandpa didn't. I'm gonna come my limp and it was getting come
over, just the noise of the building. Whenever I moved my list,
it was get there. I mean it moves it where right and whenever I
moved back for I was it did. That's where I was. How long
do you think it was right at around you? I'm not to hear.
I don't know, five seconds or ten seconds. I don't worry now,
I mean I get so stating and come shocked. There was only a short
term and then whet to go after it left cute, you know, but
sable. Then it went back behind the building, and it was really as
like it was going off. And then it gets and it went to I
was standing one way and it went to the side of the back behind so
I was standing beside me. She could have went back behind the Then it
faized and it went back behind the laundry and it never came back out again.
If you were round to any other boys in the Hobbes area who saw
anything like then, no one, nobody else saw. My grandma did that.
She was going on and she was standing in the building and I was
standing get turning the side, go on, Well that's your deal. Astonishing.
I wish I could, you know, give some explanation for it was.
Yeah, but it's us like something that ought to be checked into much.
Well, I don't know how. Well, very good, thanks mother
fire. Here we go. Oh that's really amazing, really amazing. Yeah,
and I should mention the fact that this was a very devout conservative Pentecostal
family. They were business owners. Again, the skeptics and people will laugh
at the case and probably try to derail it and say, well, these
people were a bunch of UFO believers. It was quite the opposite. And
at the time they never sought publicity. And so when people try to look
at an alternate explanation, well, what is the alternate explanation. Did he
accidentally injure himself and they concocted this UFO story. It just doesn't seem to
be something that they would do. It's not within their frame of mind to
do something like that. And the other suggestions, well did they intentionally burn
him and for what reason? I mean it's very strange. It does not
fit the makeup of these individuals based on what I've learned about them. And
again, there was no profit to be gained. There was no money to
be had. In fact, Charles, in my recent interview with him,
he stated that you know, a lot of people probably thought we were trying
to make money. I said, well, quite the contrary, I said,
you incurred a week's worth of hospital bills, not to mention follow up
medical bills. I said, quite the contrary. You guys incurred quite a
bit of cost as a result of this. And so it was very interesting
and all of these years, in the fifty six years since this happened.
In interviewing him recently, he told me he confided in me that he thought
whatever this was in nineteen sixty four, that it must have been something military
that went off range from either White Sand's Missile Range in New Mexico or Holloman
Air Force Base. They weren't thinking of UFO in the sense alien spacecraft.
So again, these aren't space cadets fashioning or constructing a story like this.
And it wasn't until I met with him and he started thinking about this after
fifty six years that many thoughts and ideas started to come to the surface that
he hadn't thought about in decades, literally decades. And in fact, I'll
be sharing additional video interviews that touch on that at the upcoming conference in Eureka
Springs, Arkansas, where I'll be presenting this material. Did he did he
ever become like really emotional when he I mean, this is like, you
know, picking at an old scar. I hate to say that terms kind
of but it kind of fits this one, right, did it? Did
he ever get like who was too much for him? Or was he?
Was he able to talk about it? Well? He was able to talk
about it well. But I'm really glad you bring that up, because I
was always in the forefront of my mind as I was interviewing him. In
fact, when I first, as I mentioned earlier, knocked on his door
completely unannounced and wanted to dredge up this incident from what was then fifty five
years ago, and so I was trying to be as delicate as possible yet
try to be to the point. But no, and in fact, in
some of the comments that I have in another clip, which as I mentioned,
I'll be sharing at the conference, he states that he's okay with it
now that you know. Initially it was something strange. He couldn't wrap his
mind around it. But pretty much myself, my family, we all just
kind of, as he said, put it in the closet, tried to
forget about it and just move on with our lives. And again harboring under
the notion that this must have been something military, and I will concede.
And I think probably many of your audience members are sitting there thinking as they're
listening to this, this doesn't sound like something high tech. It sounds like
a bad lawnmower. It's belching fire, it's belching back smoke. It doesn't
fit the model of what we would think would be advanced technology. But at
the same time, in talking with Charles last fall, he indicated that,
but knowing what we have with drones today, he goes, I would think
it would be something like a drone. But he said, but knowing what
our drones do today, to look back to nineteen sixty four, and he
went back to how this thing mimicked his movements, how it would quickly move
like this, he said, Now thinking about it, he goes, I'm
beginning to question the military explanation because I can't believe we would have something like
that. And then he posed the question to me. He goes, and
even if we did have that, why would they seek out and burn an
eight year old child? And I countered that with Well, one could use
the same argument, Charles, why would extraterrestrials fly vass distances just to burn
an eight year old child? He goes, well, that's true, He
goes, I agree with you on that one. He goes, It doesn't
He goes, No matter how you look at it, it doesn't make any
sense, Dad, But it happened. Yeah, when you were looking into
this head. You know a lot of times something like this will go into
unexplained mysteries. Or has anyone ever done a story about this case over the
years that you're aware of, Well, there's been slight references to it.
John Schusler a good friend and colleague John Schusler, former international director of move
On. John wrote a physiological case report where he documented, in very small
paragraphs, just a quick synopsis of the UFO incidents over the last several decades
involving burn victims or radiation cases or electromagnetic effects on the body, and he
does have a quick little blurb about it and references the Opera bulletin and subsequent
to the Opera bullet and the article was published in Fate magazine and apparently an
issue of the National Inquirer as late as nineteen seventy six years after the incident,
So there have been references to it, but nobody's taken the time to
say, well, let's go back and investigate this case, or let's go
talk to this witness. And what's interesting is also touching on what we started
talking about the beginning of the show looking at these old cases. Charles told
me point blank, if you came knocking on my door fifteen twenty years ago,
I probably wouldn't talk to you about this. And I looked down and
my wife was there with me. We both looked at him, and I
said, well, why are you willing to talk about it now? And
he said, one, because I know I've gotten to know you, and
I know you're doing this for the right reasons. You're trying to present the
truth and trying to find answers to this mystery. And he said, but
second of all, he goes, you know I'm in my early mid sixties.
He said, I'm to the point now in life where I don't care
who sees this. I don't care who hears about it. There's a lot
of skeptics out there. But if people want to believe it, that's fine.
If people don't don't want to believe it, that's fine too. He
goes, I'm just to the point in my life where I don't care anymore.
I can totally relate to that. Yeah, yeah, and so yeah.
So I think it's important sometimes to revisit these cases. Even if these
witnesses were hesitant to come forward in the wake of these encounters, with the
passage of time, with as I think you alluded to, being able to
deal with the situation both mentally psychologically. Uh, sometimes they're in a better
place to start relaying this information, right, right, Why don't we queue
up that last clip? It's the mother? Right, is the inter of
you with the mother? So if you would, I don't think I have
any images of her, But let's roll the case of the mother. Okay,
the clip, Yeah, he was blood Zina. I would have said
that small because it d him on the fight and on its fight and stop
of head. It didn't burn his hand on kit shirt, and burnt.
Uh didn't even go on his neck. Why would it work when this happened
if its effective his eyes and hearing. Now, they took the scrapings of
his face and everything, and they sent it to the FBI. They told
me they apparently they never told me anything about it. Well, we reported
it to the police station. Police came out to the laundry and examine the
grounds where it happened, and there was no uh, there was nothing on
the ground. Uh. Well, you know, he had second and thirty
great rounds he was from. His face was horrible. Uh, his eyes
were when he was fallen in his eyes, you couldn't even see his eyes.
He was actually he looked like a monster that they would put on DV.
It was horrible. He couldn't even see out of his eyes. He
couldn't see at all. The mother said he grabbed him like he was on
fire, and she grabbed him to put out the fire and pressed him to
her. H you know, he's come across up ter her cat. She
said. There was a black thing that covered his whole body and he ran
to her and she grabbed me try to smother it. So apparently he looked
like he was on fire. He Uh, as long as this happened,
and he was quite young when it happened, he's never changed his story.
And of course I had thought uh uh, since this has happened in the
last two years. Uh. His eyes. I had him dested not too
long ago, and they seemed to be getting worse, uh from what doctor
Taylor had told me, And he told me that the nature of the cause
of his having to wear glasses was to be peace from the fire. He
said that that the heat you know, from the from caused identity on his
left ear. He has one uh scard that uh you can see. But
for the burns that had just seen him it was it would have been unbelievable.
They had a active and they had the police so all down there,
and from my understanding, uh, they had taken taken scrapings and they were
going to send his t shirt to the FBI. And I never did hear
one was from any of them shouted. They took it at the hospital when
he was admitted to send to the FBI. They took his shirt there at
the time to send then. And uh, of course I figured that the
doctor or somebody would talk and then down me at once, you know,
he thought the fire or whatever cost it. I didn't get another word or
did I hear anything else about it, So I don't know, but I
do know. They send a detective and the police and they could find nothing.
You know, fact Graham wasn't even scarched. It's unexplainable. That's all
I can tell you. I've also thought about it and wondered what it was
myself. That's your yeah, yeah, and it was interesting. Uh.
Piggyback with that, as in talking with Charles, one of the epiphanies,
if you will, that came to him. Not having thought about this in
decades, he says, Now as a parent, he goes, I never
really stopped to think about the effect that this head of my mother. He
goes, thinking of her at work, getting a call from my grandmother and
hearing this seemingly outrageous story that this thing came out of the air and severely
burned his face in his head. He goes, as a parent, now,
I had never thought about this. And he looked at the camera as
I'm talking to him, he said, I'm only now starting to think of
these things because you're dredging a lot of stuff up in my mind. He
said, I've never really stopped to think of the emotional impact that I had
on my mother to receive that call. And he said, you have daughters.
He goes, imagine if your wife called and said one of your daughters
was burned severely, you know from the head up, you know you would
want answers, would you would want an explanation? And so there were many
things like this that he had never thought about until we really started having to
style in this discussion. Martin, I don't know. Did we bring up
image number ten? I just wanted to share that that was my wife and
I with Charles. How we'll bring that up right now? I just right
now, I have a image of basically of Charles today. But we'll pull
that up right Yeah, and here it goes right here. The picture of
your you, your lovely wife and Charles together is up on YouTube. Yes,
yeah, yeah. We spend an entire weekend together with him and his
wife and got a chance to really get to know them and their business that
they run in the city that they live in in the Southwest, and really
had a chance to get to know them a little bit as individuals. We
talked about a lot of stuff beyond the case, and we've alloked a pretty
good friendship as a result. And if you can describe, it's a little
tiny room. For some reason, your camera focus this stuff. A little
tiny room you're into and you've stuffed back in there, and and he has
a business he's running, and employees are wondering what the heck's going on.
It was the running joke that weekend. We were bringing in lots of equipment.
And he has a little I would say was probably six foot wide office
by about maybe ten foot long or eleven feet long. And so Charles is
in there at his desk. I'm there behind the camera set up on a
tripod, and my wife has wedged in the back corner of the room near
the door, and we're conducting this interview. And then both before and after
the interview, we're out in a little private area there where some of the
workers could see us. And a couple of times the employees had to come
over and ask him a question and he said, yeah, he goes,
everyone's trying to figure out who you guys are and what you're doing here,
he goes. I just told him we're thinking about selling the business and your
investors, so even his employees don't know about this incident, and like I
said, his wife didn't even know all the details until that weekend. Wow,
when you spoke with him, did he ever talk about like putting this
thing away and out of his life like for you know, I mean,
did he have an attention to that just be out of his life and not
ever talk about it again? Pretty much? I mean pretty much until like
I said, I knocked on his door. He said. There were some
subsequent articles that were written, and in fact, I think we might have
one of those. I think it was image number seven. If we've we've
pulled that up yet, the black Blob article, yep, okay, and
that was done a few years yeah, yeah, so, oh yes,
I've had that up many times. Oh yeah, yeah, that's for sure.
That was one that was written about a year or two after the incident.
So there were there were some subsequent articles written and people trying to attempt
to reach out to them, but most of those overtures were you know,
pretty much rebuffed by the mother who really didn't want to talk about it anymore.
Again. They know, something happened, they were never able to grapple
with what happened, and in fact, you know, Charles had some really
interesting insights. He said, if someone were to come to me today and
ask me what happened, how can I, as an adult, looking back
fifty five years fifty six years now and tell them with clarity what happened When
my mother, my father, my grandparents were there and they were witnessed to
it in the aftermath, and they couldn't speak to it at the time,
How can I, as a child then adult now look back on it and
try to provide any more clarity? He goes. The only thing I can
do is share the details like I shared with you, and try to answer
as many questions as I can. But he said, I still don't know
what it was. He says, some people say it's military, some people
say it's a UFO. He goes, I have no idea. But he
said, at the end of the day, I know something happened. What
was his recovery process? Like, well, for the first week, as
I mentioned, he was in the hospital, And I think we have one
I think at image number four where you can actually see where he was discharged
from the hospital. Yeah, there's a news article I have that up right
now. Oh great, Yeah, and that was the Lubbock Avalanche and if
you notice that was Lubbock, Texas that ran that article. There was another
one in Odessa, Texas. But beyond that I could not find anything other
than local. In other words, Hobbs New Mexico newspaper and the Lee County
newspaper that ran most of the articles. And you can follow his recovery on
almost a daily basis. They had a news article updating his status on a
day by day basis, or he was in the hospital. Yeah, so
any any lasting effects. The only lasting effects is he still has some hearing
deficit in his right ear, and as I mentioned, he has to wear
glasses. Yeah. And in general, I know you said that he has
he had no idea. He can't tell you today or he couldn't tell you
then what it is. But what type of speculation at the time did you
when you were digging around? What did you find it? You already mentioned
that, you know what the hoaxy things like flint, burnt flint and the
you know, but what were some of the more logical or something that seemed
logical as far as they were. Yeah. One of the other things that
the police were postulating is that he was just playing with matches, And in
fact, he remembers one of the officers talking to him in the hospital stating,
now we're going to go back to that location, and if we see
any matches, He goes, you're going to be in big trouble. And
they thought he was playing with matches and somehow set his hair on fire,
which obviously still would not account for the major injury to his face. I
mean it certainly that would set your hair on fire, but I don't think
it would cause the severity of burns that he incurred. But he said that
they went on location and they couldn't find any matches. He goes, and
now you even remember as a kid thinking, I hope one of the people
on the longer mat didn't light a cigarette and throw a match down, because
then they're going to blame that on me. He goes. I remember as
a kid thinking that that if they do find something that then they think I
did make this whole thing up, which obviously he didn't. And again we
have the grandmother's testimony. She physically witnessed the object we're not just talking about.
She witnessed him being burned, She saw the object, She saw the
object inflicting this harm upon him. And again we're talking a devout Pentecostal family.
The UFOs were probably not even in their mindset. Now. One thing,
one thing from the last clip I'd like to touch on. The FBI
was involved. The grandmother's blouse was sent into the FBI laboratories, some of
the skin that had fallen off his face. They had taken skin scrapings,
they had sent that in, and his T shirt that he wore. They
sent that in to have it analyzed. The family never heard back on it.
They never heard another word. And so in December of last year,
I filed a request with the FBI to try to get my hands on the
case file, any information, the laboratory results, anything that we could look
at from the FBI standpoint. Within about two to three weeks, I got
a rejection letter stating because it involved third party individuals, it would violate privacy
issues, and so they terminated my request. So I redrafted the exact same
request, took my name off, put his, put Charles's name on there,
mailed it to Charles, had him sign and date it, and he
submitted it under his name, so they can't say it's third party at that
point, he received the letter back and they stated they needed some additional information.
And this isn't actually too long ago since I spoke with him last,
but he was wrestling with whether he wanted to go through the time and effort
of filling out all the additional paperwork and submitting it. So I need to
follow up again. He's not he doesn't want to invest a lot of time
in this. He was nice enough to afford me time to interview him,
but he's not in the UFOs and he has a business to Ronnie as a
family. But I am going to be talking to him to see if he
has resubmitted that, and if he hasn't, I hope I can convince him
to resubmit that in the hopes that we can get some FBI laboratory results.
Okay, one thing I want to clarify, and I don't think we've touched
on this at all, is that he even though his name is out there,
he has a different name and he doesn't want he doesn't want people to
he wants no publicity. Basically, he runs a business. He's known in
his little town that he's in. Lots of people come into this business and
he just doesn't want He does not want any fanfare at all, and so
he has nothing to gain. And basically, you know how to connect to
him. And I encourage the person out there wanting to connect to him to
forget about it, right, because he doesn't want to hear from anyone.
Really. Yeah, And if someone does truly feel or if maybe someone's had
a similar experience that they would like to contact him, if you want to
contact me through my website, I would be more than happy to forward the
email on I just can't guarantee you're going to get a reply, but will
I will promise your audience that I will forward any emails I received to him,
and then at that point it's upon him if he wants to reply.
Excellent. Well, we I'm sure you could go into this case. It's
just the clock has been ticking away. It always does every time you're on
this show. It never seems like there's enough. There's enough time left.
But I would like to take calls. Right if there's a caller out there
that has a question about this case. I know someone, it's possible some
of me want to talk about triangle UFO or something like that. That is
possible. But if someone would like to call in, I'll have that number
up in the screen. But for people listening in different ways and all different
types of ways you can listen to this, that number is eight five five
four seven two five four eight three, And feel free to give a call
right and we will be screening that call a race over there at KGr A
Radio, So feel free to call in and the lines are wide open.
Where do you think? Where do you think you're going to get with?
You said you've you've did the for you that'll go in. Do you think
that they anyone is thinking they had an idea any type of you know,
the FBI, for instance, do you think they have they dove deep into
this thing or do you think it's just something they quickly looked at and moved
on? Any ideas well? I think it was probably the answer that's probably
predicated on what the laboratory results were. If they didn't find any anomalies or
anything highly unusual as a result of doing the laboratory analysis on the grandmother's blouse
or his shirt, where do you really go from there? You know,
you have the testimony, you don't show any anomalies, so there's really not
much to follow up on if they did detect something highly unusual or some type
of residue on the grandmother's blouse or his shirt or in the skin samples they
provided, then maybe they launched a further inquiry. Now it does not mention
this in the newspapers from the time, but Charles remembers both the Hobbs Police
and FBI officers showing up in the hospital in the wake of his burn,
and he says, you remember that, and I think this is rather interesting
for the eight year old child and all of us. He said, when
you're in the hospital back in nineteen sixty four and you're eight years old,
he goes, when you have government agents come in with their badges and with
their guns. He said, you remember that as an eight year old boy,
he goes. I was impressed with that, and he said, he
goes. And he even commented, he said the demeanor of the Hobbs Police
versus the FBI was very different. The Hobbs Police they were like desperately trying
to find a prosaic explanation, he said. The FBI, they came in
after the initial inquiries made by the Hobbs Police, and he said they seemed
more sympathetic. They seemed like they wanted to listen to me a little bit
more, that they weren't just trying to basically call me a liar or try
to find an explanation. Now that being said, the Hobbes police were very
cooperative with me when I reached out to them. I was hoping to try
to get police reports from the time period, and I was concerned given the
passage of time. But they were very polite, and they said, we'll
check our records, but we don't think we have them going back that far.
We do have some old case files that were microfilmed. We'll go and
check, but again, we don't know if we have anything going back to
sixty four. They checked, and they did come back. They said,
Dave, we do have old case files, but none going back that far,
and then checked. Yeah, and the hospital I called, And I
work in the healthcare field, and I know there's usually a ten year retention
and law with regard to medical records. Obviously we're well outside that window,
but I still did call the hospital where he was taken and they said,
no, there's absolutely no way we'd have medical records going back that far.
And so unfortunately, the FBI is the only possible source, and being federal,
you know, if they do have reports and they're willing to come forward,
that that's probably our best source of government documentation with regard to this,
or documentation other than the newspaper accounts. All right, wow, interesting,
All right, Well we have Steve from Oregon on the line. Steve,
welcome to the show. Hey guys, can you hear me? Okay,
we hear Oh my god. We don't have any issues with technical problems.
Hi Steve, how are you? Let means the nastart you'll probably hit a
rip here in a minute. Yeah, it's on the way. Yeah.
Yeah. So my question is it's not about this particular case, it's about
how much work have you done with boomerang shapes? I know you're yeah.
I collected a lot of boomerang reports when I was doing my triangular UFO research
and specifically looking at the Hudson Valley sidings, because for those that are familiar
with that case, they were describing chevron shaped boomerang shaped as well as triangular
shaped objects. And so I haven't done an exhaustive analysis of those cases,
but I've certainly come across a lot and I have a lot here in the
files, you know, going back decades, much like the triangles there,
there's a lot of these boomerang reports over the years, and even probably some
today. And you know the Phoenix lights. People often liken that to a
triangular UFO, but really it was more of a wedge or chevron shaped V
shaped object, not really a true triangle in the sense that at three sides,
it was more of a flying wing, if you will. And that's
why I'm that's why I'm asking. I thought we'd been my real That's really
been what I've been interested in as a page thirty Phoenix lights sighting right since
in the past few years, I've been going through old documentary the Prebate Phoenix
flights, and I found a bunch of those boomerangs and they all they all
share the same three characteristics of being gigantic, slow, low, and silent
and get Yeah, if you get the opportunity, go online and check out
some of Project Bluebooks owned files. There's some really good cases from the nineteen
fifties and nineteen sixties with very detailed sketches that show these boomerang shaped objects.
And in fact j. Allen Heineck wrote in his one of his books,
paperback edition. I think it's the Heineck Ufo Report. I was doing investigations
in Missouri back in the nineties and an area called Marshfield, Missouri, and
there was a case in doing historical research trying to compare historic cases to what
was being reported at that time. There's a case that he writes about called
the Case of the Leisurely Boomerang, and so that one might be of interest
to you as well. But there are some really interesting cases in the files
touching on boomerangs. I've found a bunch of them in the corridor between Albuquerque
and Phoenix, a bunch of cases out in that area. Yeah curious,
I mean, because I found so many cases now that go all the way
back to the fifties. Yeah, that's something I can talk contact you about.
Yeah, please, please do. I'd love to love to share some
information. I've got some case files I could share with you as well.
Okay, that'd be fantastic. Yeah, thank you. Yes, it's a
great Stow. Thank you. Thanks a lot for the call, Steve,
and the lines are wide open. I knew we would get into I just
knew we get into some triangle UFOs. Now that's a great question. Yeah,
And uh, it seems to me that you and I have had a
lot of conversations over the last few years of me like finding these obscure people
having you know, a triangle UFO one in Massachusetts of a woman that I
know in an auction gallery right over her car. Uh. Then, um,
the one that happens stance. I talked to a woman out at a
casino and and uh Arizona and she said, oh yeah, and she told
me this whole story about a triangle UFO following a car and uh, this
a lot and there's a I know we're getting off the topic of the main
topic, but there's a lot of speculation of course, UM, a lot
of people saying, you know military, you know, black ops or whatever
it is. But also, uh, you know there are there have been
sightings and people don't realize this. Um, it seems like there's a lot
of triangle sightings now, but they they're for the listener that has never heard
you talk about If we can just touch on that a little bit, absolutely,
going back at very early times. In fact, I will tell you
two things related to that if we have time, I will be addressing this
very topic that you're talking about, as far as military versus another explanation for
these triangular UFOs. For those that watch the TV show Unidentified on the History
Channel, I will be in, I'm told I will be an episode number
two of season two, and Steve and the other audience members out there that
are interested in these cases, please tune in. Chris Mellon came here to
my research room and we had some very interesting discussions about the triangular UFO phenomenon,
which he is particularly interested in, and you'll see that play out on
camera in that episode. And in fact, it's structured around the basis of
my book, and we'll talk about some of the common characteristics, and we
talk about could it be military, could it be someone else's technology, could
it be a mixture of both. And ironically, right before Chris arrived,
a week before he arrived, as you know, Martin, I'm always gathering
new collections, new data, new case files. I acquired a beautiful set
of nineteen fifty scrapbooks with vintage Flying Saucer reports. Nothing gets better than going
through these old newspaper accounts and in nineteen fifty and I shared this with Chris
and I hope it makes the final cuts so you'll see it play out on
camera. I show it to him, and it is a description. It
says, flying Triangle's newest twist in flying disc stories. This is nineteen fifty.
We weren't even calling him UFOs yet. And it is a report by
two individuals flying a private plane looking down at two triangular UFOs. In other
words, it's between the ground and their plane. How often do we ever
hear of a report of people looking down on these triangular objects? And it's
in nineteen fifty and they go into detail describing the account. And that's just
one I came across. There's actually new, new old cases I've uncovered going
through the newspaper archives. Oh, that is so fascinating. We have a
call here. We're just waiting for to finish the screen, which would be
just any second. I love the subject because because it's so interesting, and
what is really fascinating is that there's so many different shapes and then it almost
seems like this year's model is this, and you know, and what I
saw, you know, what I saw was my particular sighting was a blue
blue glow disc. And I haven't really heard anyone talk about that. And
I was watching something the other night and the guy said it was a it
was a flying saucer and it had a blue glow to it, and it's
like wow, you know, so I'm not alone absolutely, and that there's
so many different models. So a lot of people are have talked about orbs.
You know, there's lights in the sky and all that. But right
now it seems like there's a lot of triangles and the report's in chaotic because
of that. There's so many different subsets of UFO reports. But amongst that
noise, if you will, there appear to be patterns in the data.
As I outlined with my book and as Steve was alluding to with the boomerang
shaped UFOs, there do appear to be patterns in the data and correlations.
And that's really if you were to sum up my research, that's what I'm
looking for, patterns in the data, because if there's patterns in the data,
it's suggestive, not conclusive, suggestive that we're dealing with a real phenomenon
that needs to be investigated. We have Mike from Michigan. How you doing,
Mike, Welcome to the show. Hey, guys, how's it going,
Hey, Mike, we're doing good. You got a question for our
guest tonight. Yeah, I want to know about what you know about the
Kpe Girardo Missouri case Safely Linda MULLINHLL yesterday on her show, and they were
talking about all this stuff, and I was thinking, it's funny because it
wasn't Donald Trump just holding one of his raelities in Missouri within the last year
in Cape Girardo. Rush Limbaugh. Yeah, I don't know about the Donald
Trump connection, but the Cape Girardo case comes up quite often. I think
you're talking about the nineteen forty one purported crash of a UFO. Yes.
Yeah, I've had numerous researchers contact me asking me do I have any documentation
pertaining to the nineteen forty one Cape Girardo UFO crash case. And not only
do I not have any information, I really, despite the dialogue that's been
out there on that, Mike, I've not seen anybody provide one shred of
evidence to me until I can see a contemporary newspaper account or something that we
can kind of hang our hat on. To me, it's kind of become
an urban myth, an urban legend of sorts even in Roswell. We of
course had the Roswell Daily Record newspaper that documented that yes, this was reported
at the time. But if someone has information out there, I'd love to
see it. But really, at this point, I'm kind of an agnostic
when it comes to the Cape Girardo story. There's a lot of dialogue,
but there's no nothing that we can really hang our hat on. And Martin,
I'd be interested to get your thoughts on that as well. What's your
opinion. Well, we had Charlotte Man on the show and is was she
the granddaughter? Yeah, she'll be in Eureka Springs actually with me. Oh
yeah, interesting woman. And she was on the show and talked about it,
and you know she is, she's sold. She sold. She thinks
that really did happen. But hey, thanks for thanks for the call,
Mike. Thanks Mike, all good, see you guys. All right.
Next, we actually have another one. We got Steve from Las Vegas.
Welcome to the show. Steve, Thank you very much. I'm I'm Martin
and that David question and I'll take my answer off there first. I've been
following you at both h you a follogyop for the past fifty years. I've
been collecting footage for the past twenty five years, and I've been My conclusion
that I've been kind of questioning myself is how is this going to coo?
It's going to come out? And I think that with all the footage that
I've been collecting through the years, the sightings are becoming more and more and
there were some sightings that get recorded that this amazes me that I wish would
get analyzed more by people that could analyze them. One of my questions is
do you think that that possibility that these upos are letting us see them more
and more, and that our government has started to open up a little bit
because they cannot keep them from showing themselves when they want to, whenever they
want to over a military and my second question. Chris Millen wrote an article
of stating that the House Committee of Based Science and Technology had asked NASA to
investigate some of these sidings that they could be probes that correct with a probes.
Thank you, yeah, wow, great questions. I don't know where
to start. First. I'd like to thank you for all your years of
dedication and following the subject matter and researching it. I mean many people get
involved in the subject that they get burned out very quickly because they don't find
any answers. And there's not many stubborn people like you and I that stick
with it for for decades and continue to plug away. So thank you,
But I would like to add I was going to mention before you did,
Chris Mellon. I think the efforts of Chris and his group, and with
the US Navy now coming forward and basically verifying that these UAPs, these UFOs
that were filmed by naval pilots are a legitimate phenomenon, that these films are
legitimate, and the doors that Chris and his team have opened, There's been
a lot of dialogue on Capitol Hill that is not making media coverage. There
are behind the scenes discussions, and I think you'll see that in season two
of Unidentified. I think they'll be touching on that a little bit as much
as they can. But you bring up a really good point though, as
far as are these UFOs wanting to be seen more? Are they allowing themselves
to be seen more? And that I can't answer that definitively, but one
might think yes, especially looking at these military encounters where they were able to
film them and track them on their egis radar systems where we not only have
footage, we have to limit where we can measure speed and distance and angular
velocity and things like that. So I think that's interesting, and you touch
on something I wrote about in my book which you may have read, where
I talk about people talk about disclosure, disclosure, Disclosure is going to happen
well as far as the cover up and disclosures concerned. If we're dealing with
an advanced technology and an advanced intelligence, if they want to make themselves known,
they could obviously do so. It's clear that they can fly rings around
our military aircraft. So we don't have control of the phenomenon. Rather,
the phenomenon has control of us. So when people talk about the government covering
it up, they're covering up as best they can, but they're at odds
to come to terms with what they're dealing with because we do appear to be
dealing with advanced technology. And again I say that confidently now deferring to the
naval footage and the naval pilots that have come forward that have stated these things
are flying rings around our aircraft. So there's a lot of people that are
making great money on the lecture circuit, just talking about disclosure and speculating,
and that's really what it is, a speculation. But at the end of
the day, we're at the mercy of this phenomenon, whatever it is,
because clearly it's advanced technology that is that is really I'm glad you said all
that because those are many things that I've pondered, you know, more recently
than not. You know, we only have two minutes left, So I
do want to tell the listener, both on the podcast and on YouTube that
we are going to play the eleven minute clip of Charles Davis, the witness,
the person who actually now recorded last year, a video of that recorded
last year. So at the end, you want to hang in. I'm
going to go into a break. Then I'm going to check my audio and
make sure that it's coming through, and then I'm going to come back on.
So for the listener on YouTube, just hanging there. We'll be right
back after that. Dave. So we got one minute left. Are you
going to be You're going to be speaking in how many places you have lined
up right now? Oh? I've got about six or seven lectures this year.
If people go to my website Www. David Marler ufo dot com.
Click on the lecture tab and you'll have a link to each of those conferences
so you'll see where I'm speaking. I'll be in Eureka Springs, Arkansas,
Atio's Arc Mountain UFO Conference April tenth through twelfth, the Spring twenty twenty Move
On Pennsylvania Conference April twenty fourth through twenty fifth, and I'll be speaking at
Phoenix, Move On, Denver, Colorado, Move On. I'll be in
Shag Harbor in Nova Scotia October Wow this October, Yeah, and so along
with some other lectures. So please go to my website check that out,
feel free to reach out to me. But yeah, I'll be covering quite
a bit of ground this year. Martin excellent. All right, David.
The Times is always way too short with you, and I want to thank
you so much. And it's been a real pleasure getting to know you as
well. And I think they broke the mold when they make you, and
I hope other people will look at your work and be inspired to do the
same type of work. So all right, So that's it for the show.
I'm sorry, I'm snart it for the show. That's it for the
show over at KGr A Radio. For all else others, hang in there,
we'll be right back right after this break. Don't go away, all
right, Welcome back everyone, and I am going to run the clip right
now. This is Charles Davis last year, last fall, talking about the
object and what happened to him in nineteen sixty four. I'm Charles Keith Davis
from Hobbs, New Mexico, and in nineteen sixty four, I encountered a
strange object Jordan daylight hours and my grandparents laundry matt that appeared over some apartment
buildings that was in the shape of a top that you must have been described
as a UFO or whatever you want to describe it. But it followed me
and swooped on my body and gave me second to third degree birds on my
face. My grandmother witnessed part of it, Grady Smith, and I don't
know what it was. I just know that I encountered something very unusual that
we've kind of kept under the closet for fifty five years, and up until
day came, we haven't talked about it much. It's kind of been like
I'm not going to say a family secret, but there's so many skeptics out
there that it's not something you want to talk about. And have you asked
me what it is or what it was? I don't know. I just
know it was said something you see every day or I've ever seen in my
lifetime. Again, if it was domestic or from our space, I have
no idea, no ideal at all. I just know that I saw it.
It swooped toward me in gulf my body. When it left, I
had second to third degree burns from my face up. I know. They
brought in the FBI, the Hobbs Police Department, and to this day we
still don't have answers. I know they took part of my clothing to check
it for evidence. They checked the air I was burned, and fifty five
years later, I'm going to tell you there's no answers anymore than we had
the day that the occurrence occurred. That that makes sense, that's aspect.
I went to my grandparents laundry, Matt they were going to watch me that
day, and I was very comfortable. There was very at home. It
was almost like a home away from home. It was one of the family
businesses and I remember, I can't remember in detail because it's been so many
years, but I was out in the back of the laundry map for people
part to unload their clothes and the main entrance into the laundry map, and
I was out there, just horseplay and playing, and I remember I looked
up and I saw object very dark I would describe as black, similar to
the shape of a top. And I remember looking up and seeing it and
it frightened me or startled me, or I don't know if the word you
would use, but I remember I was fixed on it, and it seemed
to be a fixed upon me. And I don't know if I moved left
or right first, but when I moved, it moved with me. When
I moved, it moved. I remember ducking at one point to try to
hide from the object, and I remember standing up and moving to the other
side from the obcentration. I moved, and at that point it was just
a matter of seconds it swooped on me. And I don't know what it
was, you know what I mean, I have no idea. I know
it was burning me and I screamed from my grandmother and I ran forward the
laundry mat to get a hold of my grandmother, and I got a hold
of her right there. What did that feel like? You described that previously
when when you were enveloped in that flame or underneath this thing. I'm gonna
say terror as big a child and having something attack you, but maybe the
word more shock. Maybe I was more shocked because even as a child,
I knew what was happening wasn't supposed to be happening. It wasn't something you
would occur in your everyday daily occurreds you'd never seen anything before or since like
that, not at all. Yeah, And to this day, I don't
know what it was. I said, I don't know if it was military
or you don't. I have no idea, I don't Can you walk us
through that. I remember my grandmother trying to put my hair out because my
hair was on fire. My face was burnt severely. I remember there was
a nurse there. I remember somebody pouring something on my head to try to
sense the fire where my face had been burning on my hair, and I
remember they wanted to call an ambulance. And right at that moment, my
grandfather had just happened to pull into the laundry math and he was like,
no, we don't have time to wait, and the nurse and my grandfather
put me in their car and drove me to the hospital. And at the
hospital there was a doctor Badger that was a bird specialist with the birds.
And what do you remember being diagnosed with? Where the second third degree,
second and third degree birds? Second third degree bird. I remember my eyes
were burnt shut. I couldn't see for the first few days, and they
said my ears had turned inside out. I had burnt so severely or one
side head and it was just it was something odd, you know. I
mean, I can't I really don't know what to say about it because it
was so It's just something that doesn't happen every day. I wasn't allowed of
mirror. I'm gonna say, nobody told me how bad I looked. I
just know I wasn't allowed of mirror so I could see myself. But I
inadvertently found a mirror on the table trade that they have for the bad And
if I had to describe it, I look like a monster you'd see coming
out of the marsh. But you know, with the algae and stuff hanging
like skin hanging and distorted. I remember it scared me. I knew I
was burnt bad. Yeah, when I saw that, and that's when I
probably realized how since early hurt I was and burned, I felt blessed.
I didn't have more scarring or scars that you know what I mean? Absolutely
that show. Absolutely, I'm gonna say I had a lot of good people
that came to the hospital to check on me, to braaby gifts, well
wishes, get well cards. You had people that just cared that a child
had been burnt. But it was a very supportive time at the time I
was burnt. I don't want to use the word horrified. I'm gonna the
best word I could he use a shock. I was just literally a shock.
I never experienced or encountered anything like that for me. What type of
pain did you experience throughout this entire episode. I'm gonna say I felt no
pain at the time of the burn, but I'm going to say that I
was shock. What I remember is itchy wanting to just claw my flesh off
because my skin itch so bad. But I don't remember severe pain. I
don't remember feeling like something was burning me, if that makes sense. I
just knew something was wrong when it engulfed my body. Then something was right.
It would be almost be like a stranger kidnapping a child. Something grabbed
bee or engulf bee, and it wasn't right. And I wanted my grandmother
or my mother, or like a small child looking for a parent, if
that makes sense. And then immediately after, how did you let me ask
you? How did this object depart? I'm going to say I departed it,
but I'm would saying I was said to stay to shock. My grandmother
was coming out the back of the laundry mad, so I she actually saw
what happen. I remember being engulfed, and I remember running and screaming from
my grandmother forward, but I don't ever remember felling heat or any burning sensation.
I knew I was on fire when I got to my grandmother because she's
trying to put my hair out right, But I don't remember a sense of
pain. But I'm going to contributed to shock. You know that your body
said shot, But I don't know how from the time it covered me till
the time I got to the last thing I remember it. The object is
boom. It was on me. That's what I remember. After that,
I just remember my main concern was getting to my grandmother because something was wrong.
This is going to sound dumb, and I'm being very truthful. I
had a sense that it knew me, and I don't mean no, but
it was there for me, and I don't mean to like kidnap me or
take me away. But when I saw it, I just knew something was
wrong. That was what caused me to moom to the left. You know
what I mean, to try to get out of it. You know what
I mean, just to try to get out of like being in the sight
of a gut. I just wanted to get away from it. When I
moved, it moved perfectly with my motion. I remember ducking behind the concrete
little validation thing, thinking I would hide from it. But when I stood
back up, it was still there, and it was I'd moved one more
time to the other side. Boom, it was on me. I'm gonna
sew it could have been thirty seconds, forty five seconds, but I'm gonna
say no longer than a minute or so. I remember whoshing once or twice.
I can't tell you if it was when it was up in the air,
but if I remember, my grandma said she heard woshing you know,
slushing or whirling sounds, and when you were engulfed in apparently the fire or
the flame, I where there are any sense of smell that you can recall.
I just remember filling engulfed. I don't remember filling it burning me.
The best I could describe, and said, golf and maybe you're gasping for
air because you have a lack of oxygen. I just knew when it in
golf me something was wrong, real wrong. You don't have any excused by
dumb terminology, not regular wrong, but serious wrong, right, And I
needed to get out of this engulfment. And I just remember somebody grabbed me,
but nobody was grabbing me. I was just goal of Yeah, I
was in golf, and there was an immediate penny. But in hindsight,
and I'm being very sincere, I think I would have so I knew something
was wrong when it right, you know, you know something's wrong. But
when it actually engulfed me, something was real wrong. I don't know how
to describe that. I don't think I felt the sense that I was going
to die, but I felt the sense I had to get away from it.
I had to get away. Now. Yeah, Cooper was going to
be tragic, okay, but I felt no pain. I saw no fire
more than anything. I remember them telling me my face and my hair was
on fire. But I don't remember feeling pain at that point, but I
think I was in shock, to be honest with you. Well, that's
it for the clip. I call that a very credible witness myself. He
has nothing to gain by this. Put it away. Dave found him.
To me, I think it's a really interesting case. Again, no answer
to it. I don't have any answer. I don't think anyone has an
answer. But that's it for the show. This an evening, this evening.
I do thank everyone for listening and hanging in, and we got through
our technical difficulties. Okay, we made it. Next next week we have
Kevin Knuth or Nuth. I think it is a UFO science He's got a
PhD in physics and should be a kind of a science show. Should be
a lot of fun for those who like science. I will be entertaining I
somehow. I'm sure we'll try to pull that off for the people that do
not want to listen to technical stuff and science and stuff like that. But
I do want to thank everyone that helps out with the show behind the scenes,
and all I want to thank Peggy over at the face book page and
people that work again behind the scenes helping me out. Palmer with some UFO
stories, sorry didn't get to any of them today. And there's so many
people that do help out with the show and also support the show, and
I'm very grateful for it all. And what a great Super Tuesday this has
been. Thanks again everyone, and remember to keep your eyes to the sky.