Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin willis your host, and
one of my favorite guests is coming right up, Robert Powell. He has
written a book, and I'll show you the image of the book. A
scientist explains what we know and don't know. Well, it actually starts with
the word UFOs, and I like the fact that he actually used the word
UFOs and did not say you ap So that's just my own opinion. Anyway.
So I am away from all phone contact you're watching this. I'm going
to be on a music cruise. So but when I get back, I'm
going to be right here at the Ozark Mountain UFO conference that's April twelfth through
the fourteenth. So if you happen to be going, send me an email
Martinette PODCASTUFO dot com and we will figure out a way to meet up or
you could join me. I maybe doing some recording with possibly with Sean Khill
and a couple of others Mark d' antonio of course, always just a couple
of other things. In July, I will be the EMC at the move
On and it's the move On International Symposium. The theme is the Battle for
You UFO. I like that they didn't use UAP there either. Transparency.
So also, just I have announced this a couple of times, this is
coming up. It's an important interview with Nathan Wygan and Michael Herrera. Both
had encounters when they were in the Marines, and we'll be talking about that.
So without for oh yes, one more thing. The blog. I
may announce during this show at some point, just waiting to hear the title
of the blog from Charles Lear and if not, the blog will be as
usual on our website. And if you sign up on the side of our
website that's PODCASTUFO dot com. The sidebar you'll see you can sign up for
the newsletter and you'll get an announcement once a week on what the show is,
the links to it and the blog. And it's just a simple drop
your email in and confirm it. That's all there is to it. And
I promise I will not spam you or give your email information away. That
is a promise. And here we go with our guest Robert. Welcome to
the show. Hi Martin, it's good to see you again. I know.
Yeah, we talked recently when I was doing a little talk at eight
Amateur Astronomers and you helped me out a great deal of talking about the AAAR
report, which, yeah, there's been a lot of controversy about that since
it came out. But you're here to talk about your book, and I
am excited to read this book. I have a backlog of books that people
are waiting for me to read, but this one, I like, you
know that basically a scientist explains what we know and don't know. And so
how long has this been in the making. Well, I mean it took
me, I guess about eight to nine months to write the book. But
the book is basically written about my seventeen years of you know, exploring this
subject. So that's you know, I've written books before, one about the
history of the subject and other you know, for kids, but this one's
really my view of the subject based on having you know, personally interviewed hundreds
of witnesses individually, and then I probably read thousands of UFO reports since I
became involved in this seventeen years ago, right, And I understand in the
beginning of the book, you're kind of familiarizing people with the history of UFOs,
what I think is very important and something that's not talked about a lot
when people, you know, try to explain away what they're seeing with these
unusual propulsion and characteristics of UFOs by saying that it's something secret that we have,
you know, in the military, But they don't go back all the
way back when that was just not possible to have what people were actually seeing
that we just didn't have that technology and you can't even you know, explain
what they were seeing. So I think history is very important, and so
let's just talk a little bit about, you know, the shift since twenty
seventeen. Is that another thing I'm sure you talk about in your book.
Yes, one of the subjects that's discussed in the book is the shift that's
happened since actually the New York Times report of December seventeenth, twenty seventeen.
And I think the two biggest shifts that I've seen over the last twenty years
in this subject of UAP is one the December seventeenth the New York Times.
I just have to correct you. There's the sixteenth, sixteenth, all right,
maybe of twenty seventeen, Yes, okay, the sixteenth instead of the
seventeenth, But I know I got the year right too, two it yes,
And so the other part that's really key is the thousands of exoplanets that
we discovered, and I think think those two items together have kind of shifted
how people see the UFO subject absolutely, and they when you talk about all
the possibilities of Earth like planets out there, you know what I mean.
I've heard, you know, numbers quoted that there could be in just our
galaxy a billion, you know, Earth like planets, So you know,
I mean, it just kind of makes you wonder, especially since we're so
young, what type of civilizations, And oftentimes, in my opinion, we
kind of humanize what they may be doing and not really thinking we have no
way to know if they would blow themselves up like we probably will, so
how they develop, Yeah, you know when you said blow ourselves up.
That's one of the things I talk about in the book, Martin is it
ties in to whether or not we would expect aliens to be friendly or unfriendly.
And the argument I make is that we would consider them to be friendly
most of the time, because as a civilization develops, take ours, for
example, you develop the ability to annihilate yourself long before you develop the ability
for interstellar travel. So it's almost like nature has put in a self limiting
gadget there for interstellar travels so that the malevolent species wipe themselves out before they
can go out and wipe someone else out. So I think we're on the
precipice. You know. Sometimes I read the morning paper and it looks like
we're a malevolent species. But I guess time will pale because I would say
we're at least one hundred years away from interstellar travel, so we need to
survive another one hundred years. Yeah, yeah, I would think that sounds
about right and not to start out in such a depressing thing. But I've
talked with Bryce Abel who was doing research about extinction events, and he said
that a lot of the world scientists that he spoke to said, well,
we don't really know if we're going to be around in another hundred years.
And it's you know, I mean, it's a little scary with you know,
AI and all the things that could basically go wrong with AI, and
one of them is just a simple thing could actually happen today. In my
opinion is that these deep fake videos, it could be like a world leader,
you know, threatening in some type of way that could cause you know,
terrible things. So Yeah, that's uh, that's something we have to
get through socially without blowing ourselves up right in general. Yeah, so what
are some of the things you know? I mean, you talk about an
intelligently controlled craft, and I know it's all basically speculation about where these things
might come from. And I'm sure the thing that you often hear like I
do, is that you know there are vast distances between other possible you know,
planets that are out there, and so that comes up all the time.
And how do you you know, how does all this figure in your
book? Okay, so yeah, so let me back up a little bit
then. So I wrote the book so that it's readable not only by the
individual who you know, really studies the UFO subject a lot, but it's
also readable for those who don't know a lot about the UFO subject. And
there's two things that I talk about that I feel like I do know after
seventeen years of studying this subject. So one is that UFOs are physical objects.
They you know, they're not They're not just a plasma or a figment
of our imagination. They're physical objects. And the second thing that I feel
I do know is that they are intelligently controlled, and whatever that intelligence is,
it's well beyond you know, our intelligence. And I go into the
book and explain why I believe that, because you have to define, you
know, what, what is the measurement that defines to you that you're dealing
with an extraterrestrial intelligence. And the one I talk about in the book is
extreme acceleration, because that requires an intelligence to generate that in a craft that's
in your atmosphere, and it's done at acceleration, so far beyond anything we
can do. And as you said, I mean, this has been going
on for seventy five years now with reports to the same thing. So that's
what I look at. The two things I know now what you just mentioned
was, you know, the things we don't know for certain, and one
of those, for example, is the extraterrestrial hypothesis. Yes, And I
go into that and why I believe that's the most likely explanation doesn't mean it
is the explanation, right, just means at this point in time, I
think it's the most likely. Right, Yeah, I have felt that way,
you know. And then as you hear a lot, especially lately,
a lot of people talking about the interdimensional you know, possibilities, which I
also think could be a possibility. It's hard to fathom how it would work,
or there could be travel between dimensions things like that, and it's kind
of mind warping in general to think that these things are possibilities. Uh,
you know, the dark matter and dark energy. That's another big mystery,
and uh, some people are thinking we're on a way to solving that with
the James Webb telescope. And I don't know what your thoughts are on any
of that, but I mean it seems like, uh, there's everything kind
of boils down to you know, Einstein's theory of relativity, relativity and and
all that, you know, light travel, and you know, just I'm
just asking for your opinion, you know, I know you like to look
at things scientifically, But do you think it's possible there's faster than light travel?
Yes, I mean I think there's There have been papers written on theoretical
methods that can be used for faster than light travel, such as, uh,
oh, warping through space right where you've been space, so that like
if you had a balloon, you basically are pinching it from one side to
another, so the closest distance between two points is no longer a straight line.
So yeah, that's possible. It's way beyond our capabilities. But we
are already talking about interstellar travel in our society today. Thirty years ago that
was not even considered a something you would even discuss. So there's already a
program that's been proposed to create what they call light sales, right, and
it's the Breakthrough Project, and the objective being to basically hurl miniature spacecraft,
which are basically computer chips, towards office sentry at ten percent the speed of
light. So that means in four years or excuse me, in forty years
forty yeah, you would reach it, right, which is really short in
a time span when you talk about the distance. Yeah. So someone wrote
me last night they wanted me to ask you, and I don't know if
this is even in your book anywhere or they just heard you talk about it
before, but it's the Southern Ontario nineteen ninety three close encounter with a DoD
engineer kind of a dog bone shaped UFO. Is that something you have done
a work on. Yeah, there's actually several pages in the book about that
Ontario case, and it actually occurred in August of twenty thirteen, So it
was only eleven years less than eleven years ago. And it's the point I'm
making the book is UFOs do things that are not made no aerodynamic sense,
right in the imagine a dumbbell moving through the air. So one of your
questions of people often ask, oh, this witness made this up, or
you know this he misunderstood what he saw, right, Well, how do
you miss interpret a dumbbell flying through the sky, right, And that's totally
non aerodynamic. And if you were a hoaxer, why would you say the
object look like a dumbbell? Right? I mean, that's just going to
make your story even harder to believe. Make you look like a dumbbell.
Yeah, exactly, it make you look like a dumb bell. Well,
in this story what happened, there were three guys out hunting black bear up
in Ontario. One of the two one of the three gentlemen, is also
a research scientist with contracts with the Department of Defense. This case was so
good and so interesting, right, I wanted to know, Okay, this
is true or not. So I actually flew up and met the guy.
I toured his research facility where he has engineers that work for him, and
I toured a d D facility that manufactures some of the products he makes for
the Department of Defense. So this guy has always remained anonymous because he doesn't
want to jeopardize, you know, the jobs that he gets from the d
D. But he he's was an excellent witness in terms of, you know,
seeing the detail and transcribing everything that he saw. And so yeah,
I go. I spent about three pages in the book on that particular case.
And did he get images any pictures? So here here's what happened.
He when he first saw the object. They first saw it. They were
in the middle of nowhere, right, their cell phones don't work. They're
on a logging road. It's nine point thirty at night. He's in the
back of the pickup truck. The other two guys are in the front.
He sees a light coming behind him, So his first concern is, Hey,
we're in the middle of nowhere. What is a helicopter for example,
coming towards us? Right, So he's concerned that something the fairius is going
on right in the back of its ontario. Well, as this light begins
to approach, comes around and then it stops approximately four hundred and fifty feet
in front of them, because he's measuring it against the tree line. And
the object is this giant barbelle. So the first thing he does is he
turns on his cell phone. Well, his cell phone is like acting as
if it's booting up, so he can't take a picture of his cell phone.
So he grabs his sony camera and he turns on the camera to photograph
this object. As soon as he turns the camera on, the camera turns
off. Soon as he does it again, the camera turns off. So
his view is there some type of electromagnetic interference. It's keeping his camera from
working. And he suspects this because he sees this six inch plasma all around
this barbel shaped object. So this continues for a minute or two. Is
they watch this, and then the object starts to move away. Well,
the research scientist says, okay, it's moved farther away. Let me try
my camera again, because he suspected, you know, is it gets far
enough away, the interference with his camera will stop. So now he turns
the camera on and this time it stays on. And so he begins recording
the object, and you can hear his voice and the voice of the other
men. What you see on the video is just gibberish on the screens.
It's touttled garbage. And so the video has been interfered with, but the
audio is still working, and so he has that recording. He keeps it
in a little safe it is engineering lab, and while I was up there,
we put it on in a celloscope and looked looked at the traces that
were detected off the camera, and it's it's really an interesting interesting case.
Yes, yes, I do remember hearing details. Maybe it's when you were
on my show at some other point of this. We may have talked about
this in particular. Has he ever talked about it publicly? Or is this
something he just does not want to do. Now, there's one video online
it's hard to find where he actually dubs his own voice, so you don't
he didn't even want us to do that because he wanted to use software that
he knew no one could unscramble to detect who he was. So he did
the scrambling. And there is a video of him talking about the event.
But he's never gone public, you know. And it's kind of sad that
someone has to worry about losing their job, you know, when they see
something incredible, you know, I mean, and it may not be just
UFOs, It could be related to other things as well, right, And
you know, when I asked him about it, because when I met with
him, I can tell he's well off. So as he told me,
it wasn't so much he was worried about him losing his job, right as
it was, he did not want his engineers to lose their jobs, right
because if he lost the contracts, then his engineers lose their jobs. So
that was his biggest concern. Yeah, yeah, so that that is really
fascinating sighting. It kind of reminds me. I don't know if you ever
heard of the one I want to say it was like Pacific Grove or something
like that, where this guy goes up in a tree did hunters the two
hunters, and there was like this robot type of alien encounter. Have you
ever heard of that that one? You know, I may have. There's
so many different reports out there. Yeah, yeah, I mean it is.
Here's here's a couple of things you know, I was thinking of and
you may or may not know the answer to. But when things are coming
in, like if we had like an asteroid coming in toward the Earth.
You know, we have all these ways of detecting it. What about when
the crafts are supposedly we think they're coming in, are they like blinking in
in this area if it had to do with like a type of speed for
them to get here, or you know, why aren't they detected in the
outer atmosphere. So that's an excellent question, Martin. And you know,
in studying the UFL subject, right, there are many cases where the object
does not show up on radar, but there are many other cases where the
object does show up on radar. So to answer your question, I would
suspect right that Nora ad in our because we have radar systems that look outwards
all around the Earth and they're capable of detecting I believe, something the size
of a baseball at five thousand miles so easy. I would think that we
could detect them. But the problem is there's two possibilities. One, either
we detect them and we don't tell anyone about it, right, so that
all states classified. Second possibility is we don't detect them because we don't really
look for them, right, Because if you think about it, there is
just a ton of space debris and satellites all around near Earth orbit, and
that would make so much data that what I'm quite sure they do is they
filter it out right. So if you have an not they're looking for objects
moving in orbit, and they're looking for objects going into orbit or leaving orbit,
and those objects have a certain characteristics in terms of speed and the angles
at which they move right, and so they probably just delete out anything that
doesn't match what they're looking for because they're looking for missiles and anything that can
be an attack on the United States. I understand, I see it.
I think I've talked to someone else that said, there there's some type of
filtering system and that's why they're not uh uh, you know, really taken
seriously or looked at. But I mean they could change that at any time.
Oh, if they wanted to go look for them, they could,
yes, right, And uh it's always makes you wonder what they know,
you know, yeah, right. And see that's the thing in our society,
right, there's so much information they don't tell us about. That that's
what causes all of our conspiracy theories, because I mean it's easy to say,
oh, they've got to know, right, they have to know this
is happening. But but it's also possible that they don't really know because they're
not looking. Yeah, yeah, uh, those are both possible. So
I guess I want to ask you, since you are approaching this in a
scientific way, do you think there's any outstanding cases alone that you singled out,
you know, besides the wind you just talked about that really, need
you know some type of explanation that we can't explain? Well, I mean
there's a lot of cases that we can't explain, which is kind of my
problem with the Arrow report, Right, there's so many cases and they don't
even mention them. But I mean, just to name a few, the
two thousand and four Knimics incident, the Faighteens, I mean, that's never
been explained. The Stephenville case is not explained. Yaguadilla case is not explained.
I believe it's nineteen seventy three case involving a retired not a retired Army
colonel, but International Guard colonel in Ohio where they had a helicopter. It's
called the Cohen case. The Coin incident. Yeah, I mean that's never
been explained. The incident over at Tront I ran in nineteen seventy six with
the F four fighters that intercept a JIT that's never been you know, explained
the RB forty seven case from nineteen fifty seven where an aircraft somewhat similar to
modern day electronic ease electronic ease dropping type of aircraft was basically followed by a
UFO for almost two hours in the Mine Not. There's a case out of
my Not Air Force Base that involved the B fifty two and they actually it's
still in blue book today. There's images on radar of the object that the
B fifty two detected, and from one image to the next, this object's
on one side of the aircraft, and then in the next split second it's
on the other side of the aircraft a mile on either side. Is that
the one that James Fox opened up his film with the B fifty two.
I know it was a B fifty two bomber. It flew over the field
below them. It was a disc that flew over. They saw it flying
ahead of them. Yeah, now this was not a disc shaped object.
They did see it when they flew over. They saw it landing. It
was sitting on the ground. According to the pilots and if I remember I
had, it was shaped like maybe you might say, half of the disc
with a kind of a more of an angular type tale, almost like what
Kenneth Arnold. Yeah, maybe a little bit more like that than a typical
disc. Yeah. You know, I when I do these talks sometimes I
kind of forget that, you know, there's a lot of people that are
looking into UFOs for the first time that watched the show, and I get
some email occasionally, So I'd like to actually, you know, explore a
couple of the cases that we just mentioned, if there's any of them in
particular, you want to kind of go through kind of like the is that
the mind not one? That one I'm kind of unfamiliar with myself. If
you could explain that one a little more in detail. There was there's a
case and it's in the Project Blue Book files. It occurs at my not
Air Force Bace and it was October of nineteen sixty eight. And what happens
in this case is initially the guys that run the missile silos are seeing these
objects, and it's at night, so they cannot see the shape. They
just see the light from the object. And these objects are hovering outside of
a missile silo, right, and that's a major problem since these are our
nuclear missile silos. So they were caught, you know, they reported in
and so so this goes on for a while during the night, and then
the commander of the base, there's B fifty two coming back in from a
training exercise, so he asked the B fifty two to circle around the base
before he lands to see if he sees anything well, and the B fifty
two comes near this unknown object, and so the B fifty two detects it
on radar, and you can actually see the image on radar of what it's
detecting, and it is there flying the object. They later see the object
on the ground and so some of the guys make a drawing of what they
saw. One of the things that's been done with that case is a French
physicist. His name was Claude Poher. He took the radar data and he
calculated the distance the object traveled based on the time between radar sweeps, and
I don't remember the exact G forces, but it was something over two hundred
G forces of acceleration that would have had to have occurred for that object to
have moved from one location to the next location that showed up on radar.
That's that's pretty amazing. Yeah, I I didn't know that one in particular,
and that's definitely not the same one I was thinking about when I mentioned
James Fox opening that was. But I do believe it was a bomber,
but I just can't remember much of the detail on that. But yeah,
the G forces, that's when you're talking about, you know, just an
unexplained nineteen sixty eight. There's no way anything that we had could probably even
survive mechanically, never mind if there was a passenger with that type of G
force. No, nothing we had would survive two hundred G forces, right,
not the only thing that might survive that. It's like an artillery show
that you fire, right. Yeah. Yeah, So yeah, that's really
something. And let's see a couple of let's just touch on one or two
other cases that you think are really important. Now, the tik Tak case.
You and I have actually did a whole show on that, you know,
and it was very well received when that first you know, came out.
Basically that whole thing came out, and that's a fascinating one. And
I think one of the top ones with all the data in that But what
I wanted to ask you about that particular cases. I watched Sean Kirkpatrick in
a conference and anybody could watch it live stream. I don't know how many
people were watching, but anyway, he was asked from one of the journalists
in the audience, well, what about the two thousand and four so called
Tiktac incident? And he was a up on the podium and he's kind of
like snickerings as well, you know, everything, all the data that we
have on that particular case, we're not going to look into it because all
the data you have is on YouTube. And that was the end of the
story. And I thought that was such a farce, you know. I
pointed that out because first of all, the Hawkeye lands and that data bricks
come off and they go into the safe like they're supposed to. And then
someone this is all purported, you know, but you know, someone possibly
from the Air Force, landed on the ship and had them remove the captain
meets the person down who's in charge of it, they take it out of
the safe and those data bricks are taken away. So what do you suppose
happens to hard data that they don't want anyone to know about. You know
that that case is the one that caused me to change my views on whether
or not the government had some information that they're hiding, right, Because in
the past, my view has always been that no, there was no agency
out there that was grabbing data and hiding it. Right on the UFO subject,
I just had not seen sufficient evidence. But when I investigated the Nimitz
case, I changed my mind because there's no doubt in my mind that someone
took the data off the USS Princeton. I'm positive of that. So the
question is who took it, right, because and they took it within twenty
four hours of the event. So I was talking a friend to a friend
of mine who used to work in the National Security Agency in the NSA,
and I was telling him I was trying to figure out, Okay, who
would know this right within twenty four hours? I mean, the Navy would
know because their carrier strike group was involved. Nor AD might know because supposedly
their radar system should have been able to detect the same thing the USS Princeton
detected, right, And I said, but those are the only two agencies
I could think of, And then He made a point, a good point
which I never thought of. He said, well, the NSA monitors our
ongoing military operations all the time. I said, really, you mean we
just listen in on our own people. And so that that appears to be
the you know, a potential answer. Right. It could be one of
the three letter agencies that came out and grabbed the data. There's there's no
way to know for sure who it was that took the data, but we
know that a helicopter landed on the USS Princeton and removed the data that was
on that ship. Mm hmm. Yeah, and that that's probably not the
only data. I mean they must have, you know, from well for
instance, you know, we see just this little clip, this little tiny
clip, that's all we see of this the TikTok there and then shooting off.
And people have tried to debunk that, Mickwest as all different types of
things that you know, that's pretty intriguing. For one. Yeah, the
problem with trying to you know, and Nick and I actually debated that and
the two big the two biggest problems with with trying to say, oh that's
that's you know, another airplane, that's his argument, right, Another airplane,
is what right you're looking at? Well, first, our fighter jets
know if they're looking at another aircraft, the equipment will exactly kill them.
Yes, Second, that was in a military operating area. Nothing is supposed
to be in that military operating area that the US IS Princeton wouldn't know about,
right, because they're in control of all that airspace, So that that
some plane just happened to be there, right, that wasn't supposed to be
there is just a huge coincidence. And then the other thing is there are
three instances that day, within twenty four hours that indicate extreme acceleration. One
was the video right, Two was the radar on the USS Princeton where the
radar the head of radar there indicates that the object drops in like zero point
seven eight seconds. That's extreme acceleration. And the third is Favor and Slate
And the other two pilots who see this object disappear from view from two different
angles. One of them's up here, one of them's down here. All
four pilots say this object disappears within two seconds. So it's just some basic
trigonometry to calculate how fast that object has to accelerate, right, to disappear
in two seconds, and even if it took four seconds or six seconds to
disappear, the G forces required are well beyond anything we any capabilities we had,
because we calculated numbers that went up into the hundreds of G forces.
Right, And you know, I'm part of a group that meets most Thursdays.
Not going to be this Thursday. I don't believe or they'd be going
without me, basically. But and it's called UAP crossfire, not UFO crossfire,
UAP crossfire. And so there's three other co hosts and they're all military
ex military, and every single one of them they're ganging up on me.
They say they think it's a that the tic Tac incident was all our technology,
advanced technology, and I basically argue that it just doesn't make any sense.
And if that was two thousand and four, wouldn't we know something more
about that at this time twenty years later? But there was just so many
characteristics in there, just totally convinced that it's our military, secret military.
There's no way that was our technology. And here's why our jets will only
stand maybe ten G forces. And that's angular, right, that's angular acceleration.
Is their turning. What this object demonstrated was over two hundred G forces
of linear acceleration. That means we're not even counting the angles such as straight
direct acceleration. Our best jets that we have can maybe accelerate two G forces
and linear because when you hear a jet, you know, he's got on
his G suit and he's going eight eight g's, that's because he's turning and
that's causing the G forces in the craft can only handle maybe fifteen G forces
total. But for an object to linearly accelerate it over two hundred G forces.
There is no Black Project. There's nothing we have that can do that,
and anyone who thinks there is, you know, is really deluding themselves
because that's not how science works, don't. We don't suddenly go from having
a you know, a clipper ship out in the ocean to having a nuclear
aircraft carrier. Science comes in very small increments. We get better and better
and better at what we do. So we don't suddenly go from a jet
that does two g's twenty years you know today, to something twenty years ago
that could do two hundred G forces. It's just yeah, I mean,
where would they and how would they hide that technology totally? That's one of
my thoughts on that, And why haven't we seen them again, you know,
right or many times? And the thing is, Martin, just like
you said, there reports of objects doing that seventy years ago, right from
pilots that said, I was looking at this object, it began to accelerate
away one to two seconds it was gone, and then another I'll go ahead,
And I was going to say, if we had that ability, it
wouldn't take us nine months to get to Mars. That's right. Yeah,
And another thing in my arguing is I say, why would they just randomly
test that on you know, the Navy, And they said, oh,
that's exactly what they would do to see how they would react. But I
mean, you know, they didn't have any weapons on board, I don't
think. But still it doesn't make any sense. So anyway, I'm probably
going to cut this clip out and play it while I'm on that show your
arguments against why this can't be our own technology. And it just to me
it never made any sense that it would be. You know, we both
could be wrong. There's it's possible, but I think it's highly unluckily likely
and so I know that. To me, you know, I always say
that's one of the top cases. I really do do believe it. But
as far as data goes, would you say, there's some other ones that
come in that have you know, a lot of serious data. Yeah.
Another case that has I think good data is the Stepentville case, which I
think you and I probably talked about, right. Yeah. I was able
to get FAA radar data on that case and what in the probably to give
your audience a feel for what happened there. This was in January of two
thousand and eight, and all of a sudden sudden, there were dozens of
reports coming out of Stephenville, Texas of these unknown lights that they were seeing
at night. So I drove to stephen Bill to investigate this case. And
one of the witnesses I talked to was the constable, and I interviewed him,
got his testimony, you know, and then I ordered FAA radar data.
And when I got the radar data, the most amazing thing was that
there was radar data that supported what the constable stated to me, Because he
says, there's objects roughly two miles south of my house, and he tells
me the time he knows the time because his wife is watching her favorite show.
And so I go to the radar data. I go to that time,
and sure enough, on radar, you see this object two miles south
of his home, and it's just barely moving, just short little ELPs from
here to there, you know, within a mile of each other. And
then the constable says, this object. Suddenly he goes in to get his
wife to come outside, and she won't come outside because she's watching her favorite
TV show. She doesn't care if there's UFOs or not. She's not missing
her show. So he comes back outside with his son, his nine year
old son. And now that these objects are no longer south of his home,
they're directly up above, and he sees nine to eleven lights just randomly,
just moving about in random fashion. And then suddenly the nine to eleven
lights come together, and then in synchronous movement, they all move, as
he described it, to the northeast at the speed of light. Now he
was being facetious by the speed, but he meant extremely fast. Okay,
so what do I see on radar? Well, these objects that were south
of his home Suddenly in the next radar point that I get the objects are
northeast of his home, and the time and the speed at which they were
traveling had to be a minimum speed of nineteen hundred miles an hour and an
acceleration of nine to ten G forces minimum. And we don't have any type
of craft that can sit still like these did in the air, right,
because the only things that can do that are like an F thirty five or
a helicopter and then suddenly accelerate to nineteen hundred miles an hour within ten seconds
and the G forces that are around nine G forces. Amazing? Now,
wasn't am I getting this case correct? Did have anything to do with the
ranch? The Bush ranch? Yeah, there was another object at the same
time. There were a couple of objects. One was the one I just
described. There's another one that was moving south and it was moving directly towards
the George Bush's ranch. This was back in two thousand and eight when he
was president, and so that's where he would stay when he wasn't at the
White House. Now on this particular day, he was not there, but
no matter what, there is a three and a half mile no fly zone
around that ranch. So this object is moving towards there and I have one
hundred and forty radar hits on this object. It's moving slowly towards the bush
ranch, and I can see the F sixteens all during this time because there's
F sixteens in the sky, not they're doing routine maneuvers into a military operating
area that they're there, and yet they don't do anything to intercept this object
that's moving there. And I find two witnesses who live within two miles of
the bush ranch who were and I went and interviewed them personally, and they
described an object that they saw that moved over the bush ranch and then suddenly
accelerated at high speed and it's gone within one to two seconds. That is
There's a couple of things that I want to say about just kind of get
your opinion. Always seems like people talk about and I've interviewed people from everyday
life that have talked about, you know, their encounter, and they all
say the same thing. It shoots off. It shoots off like faster than
they've ever seen shoots off. I think that's really kind of unusual that it
seems like that's a typical thing that you hear about. I want to almost
say most encounters. The thing was going very slow and all of a sudden
it shoots off. Yeah. Yeah, it's just that's exactly how Lieutenant Commander
Slate, who was the second command on the USS Princeton F eighteen Squadron,
is when that object took the tic TAC took off. He said, it's
like you shot it out of a gun. It was gone. It's so
bizarre. Now there's one other thing on that Stephenville case, in the Bush
Ranch incident that I don't think I've told you before, and this is something
I found out within the last two years, was Jay Stratton, who was
the head of the UAP Task Force. He has told me this, as
has Chris Mellon that Jay interviewed some of the pilots of those that sixteen's right,
because they had read our report on the Stegenbelt case and so he wanted
to get first hand information from the pilots. All the pilots refused to speak
to him, even though he has a top secret clearance right head in the
UP Task Force, he couldn't get them to talk to him. That is,
I wonder why were they? I wonder if they were threatened or something,
or why would they you know, it doesn't even know. I mean,
even though you may have a top secret clearance, that doesn't mean you
have the right to know on a given incident, right, So you have
to you have to have a right to know to be able to do that.
So that's probably why they didn't tell him anything about it. And another
thing that people ask me a lot, and I don't know if you've ever
heard this question, but why the lights? Oh yeah, yeah, no,
I wonder that myself, Martin. I mean, why the light?
That's what do you need the lights for? You're talking about on the UFOs
R, Yes, correct, Yeah. So my best guess is that it's
just part of their propulsion system and it's just a side effect. I doubt
that there is intention with the lights, unless they just do it to help,
you know, let's they say, oh, let's not let those earthlings
accidentally crash into us or something like that, so they turn on lights.
But I suspect it's just a artifact of their propulsion systems. And you know,
I mean, this is just the thought a lot of you know,
the tic tac is is different, but a lot of the sightings seem to
be at night time and I'm wondering if it's just because we see the lights
at night when normally, you know, nothing may draw our attention to the
sky during the day, unless we saw a quick movement or something like that,
right, And that is probably the bulk of the answer to that question.
Take, for example, the planet Venus. Right during the daytime.
It's possible if you know exactly where Venus is and it's not in the know
the brightest time of the day, but say maybe around five o'clock or something
like that, if you know where it is, you can barely make it
out. But if it was nighttime, it just stands out like a bright
diamond, right. I mean, there's no way you're going to miss it.
Same thing with an aircraft. An aircraft that's fifteen miles away at nighttime,
you're going to see because of the light on the aircraft. But in
the daytime, it's just going to be a spec in the sky and unless
your eyes were focused for some reason right on that spec, you're not going
to see it all right, So just switching gears a little bit. You
I recorded with you about the aa r O report that came out, and
you basically had a lot of really good points that and I'd like for you
to just talk about the scientific evidence that they There's no example, there's nothing
like you make an analogy. I want. I want to talk about that,
but also I want to ask you, do you have any high hopes
at all for the second report, which is the historic report? The same
for their second report. I mean, the first report was so horrible.
I don't know what why the first The second report would be any better,
right, it would almost be like in in college. I'm a professor,
It's like, Okay, I just got a paper for my d A student.
I'm giving him a D minus. It's so bad. I don't anticipate
his next report is going to be much better. And your analogy, if
you would, you made this analogy about looking for Earth like planets. Well,
we have to have science. So what was their science and their conclusion
that there is no signs of extraterrestrial I believe, yeah, I mean the
main thrust of their paper, right, And let me say, the purpose
of their paper was not supposed to be about this. Congress gave them why
that paper was supposed to be written, and that paper was to have been
written to look at the history of UFOs from nineteen forty five to modern day.
Their job doing that was extremely poor. What they focused on was trying
to make the point that there is no evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence. Right.
But in science, if you're going to make that statement, you have to
define what is the evidence you're looking for, right, And they never do
that. So you can't claim there is or is not extraterrestrial intelligence evidence of
it until you define what is the evidence you're looking for, right, I
mean, are you looking for a dead body? Are you looking for a
crash spacecraft? Well, I mean, if that's the evidence they were looking
for now, they'll probably never find it evidence of it, right, But
if you're looking for extreme acceleration, that evidence already exists today. Yeah,
that's right. Well we're right at the end of the show. Thank you
so much. Here's the book, UFO as a Scientist Explains what we know
and don't know. Love it and always enjoy you as a guest very much.
And so we'll be back next week with Mike Fiorioto. And again I'm
going to be at this conference, so you may be seeing some clips from
me there. Thank you so much. Robert, always a lot of fun,
to talk to you. Thank you, Martin. I enjoyed our conversation
again, yes you bet, and so again we'll be next back next week
at the regular time and everything. You probably see some clips if you're watching
online. And thank you Robert, take care, thank you, bye all
right, and remember to keep your eyes to the sky.