It's the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. Damian Parson here,
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Cincinnati Bengals need a new offensive coordinator. Let's talk about the latest and what
the requirements will be for the Bengals to fill that job. You are Locked
On Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast, part of the Locked On podcast
Network. Your team every day, Bengals fans and welcome to another episode of
the Lockdown Bengals Podcast. I'm Jake Lisco, He's James Rapine. We are
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we're going to talk more about the Bengals future at offensive coordinator. Prize Picks
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NFL to get a first positive match up to one hundred dollars and James,
we welcome in everyone who makes us out there first. Listen, everyone who's
in every Day you probably caught the two episodes yesterday if you're in every Day's.
We got the late news that Brian Callahan will be coaching the Tennessee Titans,
and the presumed successor, Dan Pitcher, probably working his way through the
offensive coordinator process potentially with a number of teams. Think he's still the first
choice for the Bengals, but the Bengals do have a process to go through.
Here, no doubt in he is their first choice. I would be
shocked if he wasn't. If you want to call him the front runner,
call him that because that's what he is. But he has options. And
Dan Pitcher didn't know for sure that Brian Callahan was going to get a head
coaching job, and so he had to do his due diligence like he did
last year with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. And it turns out that NFL teams
are impressed when you not only help Joe Burrow become the quarterback that he's become,
but you helped Jake brown And go four and three down the stretch and
post historic numbers over his first four starts and help the Bengals win three straight
games. All of the above, right, Dan Pitcher's it's risen. His
profile has risen this year. What he was able to do with Burrow goes
without saying, but obviously what he did with Jake Browning. And I think
Zach Taylor deserves credit too, because he hasn't shied away whether it's Brian Callahan
or Dan Pitcher when we ask about them, when asked about, oh,
how valuable is Brian or how valuable is his pitch? He gives so much
credit to those guys. And I don't think it's lip service. I think
it's how he genuinely feels. So now that Brian is Nashville bound and I'm
sure that'll become official at some point this week, and hob he announced and
we'll see him in blue and all of those things, well, Dan Pitchers
is the focus for this Bengals organization. I have no doubt about that.
But to your point there is a process. They're not just going to hire
a pitcher. They'll conduct multiple interviews. And at the same time, I
still think Dan Pitcher, it's his job. I don't even want to say
to lose because we can get into the scenarios of how he doesn't become Bengals
offensive coordinator. But he's certainly the favorite for that job. I think thing
is his job. To lose is fair Like if he doesn't want it,
that count is a way he would lose it. I think that does he
have to go? Does he lose it if he picks somewhere else? I
don't think that. I feel like that. I mean it's his job,
right like if he wants the job. The Bengals, I think want him
to be the offensive coordinator. Zach Taylor wants him to be the Bengals tax
offensive coordinator. I think that's the point that I was trying to make in
retorts there. Sure, what do you think it comes down to? Then
they stop some other interviews. We can get into the process part, the
behind the scenes. What's your biggest thought here concern? Because I have one
and I want to know if you feel the same way. I think the
two I think there's two, one more than the other, one a little
bit more nebulous than the other. But one that is very obvious is money.
The other one that I think is also fairly obvious is responsibility in terms
of specifically play calling, which has been discussed quite a bit. We've talked
about it on this podcast as well. Does dam Pitcher want to call plays?
Probably? Yes, probably, if you're going to be an offensive coordinator
in the NFL, you would prefer to call plays given the option. But
it's not necessarily as simple as just that. You also have to think about
the opportunity. After you've seen your former boss Brian Callahan get a head coaching
job, and your trajectory, what's going to give you the best coach,
the best chance of becoming a head coach? If that is Dan Pitcher's goal,
what you would imagine it is. For many of these coaches in the
NFL, the opportunity to be a head coach of an NFL team is an
ultimate lifelong dream and that's where they want to be. That's the top of
the mountain, and then taking your team to success as a head coach obviously
after that. But those are the factors that I have to imagine are in
play for Dan Pitcher if it is as simple as he's making a choice and
has a few teams to choose from, because we know now officially reported,
we've hinted at it and talked about the Patriots, certainly, but in addition
to New Orleans, who wants him for a second interview, scheduled to fly
to Vegas, scheduled to meet with the Patriots. Probably by the time you've
listened to this, he's met with the Patriots. So there are other teams
interested in the services, and the Bengals are competing with some teams that don't
necessarily offer the same you know, offensive personnel in terms of they don't have
Joe Burrow, but could offer other things to try to pry him away.
Yeah, it's it's interesting because the money factor. It's simple. If Zach
Taylor values him the way I think he does, if Joe Burrow values him
the way I think Joe Burrow does, well, then why why wouldn't the
Bengals be willing to get close or figure out money wise how to make it
work. I think that part's easy right in the At the same time,
the Bengals are probably like, well, this is a hot job a job?
No, no, no, The money part shouldn't be a factor.
They have the money for it, and so money was mine and that would
be the one thing that to me cannot be the hang up. We can
get into the play calling in a second. But if I'm not saying we
found this out or we will find this out. But let's say the Raiders
off fer am one point five million per whatever, and I don't know if
that's the case, I have no idea, But let's just say, let's
just say it's a million. Let's make it easier, and the Bengals are
at seven hundred thousand dollars, Well, then just go to the million and
get your guy. Because Zach loves him and Joe loves them. It's pretty
easy to me. And yet we'll see, right Jake, if that's the
hang up or not. There is a process, And like we talked about,
there are all these factors out there play calling. Is that a big
deal for Dan Pitcher. Maybe we'll find out about that eventually, maybe not.
Maybe the Bengals will will budge there, maybe not. But you're right,
if it's money and that's the difference, just do it. It can't
be that's the one thing that isn't acceptable. I want to get into the
play calling part because I think that there's that's more interesting. Yeah, because
if Dan Pitcher is demanding play calling duties, I have some thoughts on it.
That's all. But curveball, we didn't plan this. I pulled a
clip from Joe Burrow of Joe Burrow discussing Dan Pitcher. Should we toss to
it? We shall? It seems like you've got a really good relationship with
a pitcher. With Dan Pitcher, guys have similar personalities. Is that true?
Yeah? I would say that, and I think that's why we messed
so well in the meeting room and on the sideline. We have a great
working relationship. And you know, really, I say this all the time,
but I couldn't ask for a better group of coaches for my skill set
and for what I do. That's Joe Burrow or ahead of the AFC Championship
game January twenty seventh last year, ahead of the game against the Chiefs.
Clearly he's on board with Dan Pitcher and likes how Pitcher has helped him development.
That's the quote that I referenced in our bonus episode. But better to
hear it, of course from Joe Burrow directly than to hear it from me.
I think we can all agree on that without much debate. A lot
more to talk about, I think around the future of the Bengals OC position,
some other coaches that some fans are excited about the requirements that the Bengals
have to meet in order to actually make a higher at OC and potentially quarterbacks
coach as well, So we can continue that conversation coming up next. Today's
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of the Locked On podcast Network. Your team every Day, James, there
are some hot names on the OC market. Should we talk about those and
some of the people that some fans in particular, I think I've seen quite
a bit of chatter on social media about in the last twelve to twenty four
hours since Brian Callahan was poached away by the Tennessee Titans. Where do you
want to go? Real quick? There's a scenario where if I'm the Bengals,
I tell Dan no if the numbers are the same money wise, but
he's demanding to call plays, I would say I'm good and Zach, I'll
tight call his bluff and also be comfortable with letting Dan leave because Dan could
be awesome. And this is nothing personal, but the Bengals offensive coordinator job,
regardless of who's calling plays, is one of the best jobs in the
league when it comes to getting a shot at becoming a next head coach.
That is a better job than the Raiders' offensive coordinator job. I don't care
if you're calling plays. I don't care if you're setting schedules. I don't
care what you're doing. I don't care if they give you a Lambeau to
drive to practice every day. It doesn't matter. It's not as good of
a job. And we heard why about oh three minutes ago, Joe Burrow.
We heard from him, right, Joe Burrow. There's no Joe Burrow
in New England. They might have a top pick. Okay, that's fine,
It's still there's a lot of risk there. There's a lot of risk.
Move in your family to Vegas. Then Pitcher could stay right here,
assuming the money's the same enough, the money is different. I'm not counting
your pockets, I get it. But from a play calling standpoint, there's
as much risk as there is reward. With that ask I ask the Eagles
offensive coordinator Brian Johnson how quickly those things can change their stability here if the
money's the same. I mean on the Bengals, I wouldn't necessarily give Dan
Pitcher the play calling duties unless Zach decides he wants to do that anyways,
but I wouldn't do that to keep him here. I think that's too much.
That's interesting. I wonder how much of a how much they feel that
way. I think that they may really value Pitcher and may be willing to
do that to keep him, just because it would mean that there's this coach
that they really like, that they've developed, that they've seen grow into the
role he's in right now, where he is a very in demand offensive coordinator
and or very in demand candidate for offensive coordinator jobs. I guess we should
say, maybe that's something that they're willing to consider, maybe not. Maybe
to your point, Zach Taylor says, I'm going to do it. This
is a great job. I feel like I can replace with any number of
very valuable candidates. And the Bengals well go through an interview process we keep
alluding to they're required to, in fact, and so maybe they feel that
way, maybe not. We'll find out, likely very soon about some of
these questions. I just think it's interesting, and yeah, there's also the
question of whether or not that would be good, whether or not you know,
you talk about potential growing pains as a pit play caller, and on
the other hand, you talk about potentially changing it up and some benefits that
could come from a different primary play caller. There's two sides of that,
no doubt, and so I tried to choose my words very carefully there not
to you, but just to be clear, I would not if I'm Zach
Taylor give up play calling to keep Dan Pitcher if that's the reason you're doing
it. If the reason you're doing it is because you think that it's going
to make the team better and potentially raise the level of the offense and help
you become a better head coach and help the team because you think Dan is
just this awesome play call, like potential play call, like if you think
the upside is there. That's different than a you know, Dad coming to
the table saying, Hey, the Raiders are giving me play calling duties and
X amount of money. You're giving me X amount of money, but I
want play calling duties or I'm leaving. It's one of those burrows in this
building song. That's all. That's all I said. It's one of those
things where Pitcher has a leverage to ask for it, right, And while
that shouldn't You're right, shouldn't be bullied into it or anything like that.
If your tailor and you're thinking about the upside, like you just said,
and you come to the conclusion that, oh, yeah, well, then
I can you know, focus more on these other things instead of having to
think about play calling. That's something that I can delegate that will free me
up to do other things better. And I think Pitcher will be really good
at it. It's just an opportunity to think about it, right, It's
an opportunity to entertain the possibility and then if you reach that conclusion, because
that's the only way it happens. I don't think that that would be just,
you know, a blackmail kind of thing, like, hey man,
I'm going to leave you don't give me play calling, right, Like,
I don't think that would play I don't think that would be a healthy environment
for your OC head coach relationship going forward. But it's just you know,
you sit back and you think about it when presented with that argument, and
then maybe you come to that conclusion like you said, sure, yeah,
And it's an interesting dilemma for sure. And I think we both know Zach
Taylor doesn't want to lose both these guys, and he lost one of them,
so and you know who else knows that Dan Pitcher does that? So
it's just an interesting dynamic and it is business, the business side of it.
So we'll see there. But to your point, there are a lot
of names being thrown out there as far as is that where you wanted to
go? The Brady scenario, oh Man, People on social media talking about
Joe Brady a couple of things. He's still the offensive coordinator of the Bills,
and I know he has that interim tag. But unless there's some kind
of sign of them wanting to move on from him and or Sean McDermott,
you think Joe Brady's going to just say, oh, well, I'm the
interim right now, but I'm gonna leave even though I have a real shot
to be the OC here and I'm going to be the OC here. That's
where he probably knows he's going to be to not call plays or even call
plays, let's say in Cincinnati. Like I just it is so pie in
the sky, unrealistic. And it's because Brady is in Buffalo with Josh Allen.
This isn't the Raiders OC job. It's a real OC job, a
good job, and so I think unless there's a real shake up to that
staff in Buffalo, I don't think he'll be available, and it's not like
the Bengals could just request him right now because he is an OC so they
couldn't bring him in right now. And so I think it's a lot of
unrealistic thoughts, even though I do get it because Joe Brady's interesting, but
I just don't think he's available. I don't think he's available either. The
one interview request we've seen for Joe Brady was for a head coaching job.
Yep, the Atlanta Falcons wanted to talk to Joe Brady about being a head
coach. So if he becomes available and he becomes somebody who's just a free
agent, OCEE, sure he should be one of the guys you interview.
Absolutely, but I agree with you that it doesn't seem like he is available,
and if he is available, it seems like he's available for head coaching
jobs, because that's the only thing that we've seen. So I don't know
the legality. I don't know if there's protections around interim tags or if it's
something you're allowed to request. I mean, I think you can request it,
the bills could deny it, and that's that's the element of this,
is the Bills could deny it. You can't deny picture like a promotion,
promotion correct from the promotion. So I think it's unrealistic because and who knows,
maybe the Bills are fed up with Joe Brady after eight games or whatever
it is. But unless they fire McDermott, don't we think Brady's probably staying
there makes sense to minded head coach. And they elevated Joe Brady for reason.
Yeah, and even if Brady were to become a free agent coach,
he's going to be looking for an opportunity to continue to call plays, I
think, And there's your element a similar argument around Dan Pitcher, like I
can work with Joe Burrow again, but Zach's calling the plays or you know
how important is that to Joe Brady. People might be lining up to throw
money at Joe Brady, Like I said, he's getting He got a head
coaching interview with the Atlanta Falcons after the Atlanta Falcons talked to Bill Belichick for
the second time. So maybe it's just not going very well with Bill Belichick
in Atlanta. But they're looking, they're they're casting a wide net in Atlanta.
And if you're getting considered her head coaching jobs taking an OC job instead.
Very you can't call plays potentially, I don't know. So the Bengals
explored if he's available, Yes, is he available? I doubt it.
That's and that's what I keep coming back to. If he is available,
interview him, even with Pitcher, interview him. By the way, the
Raiders, who are obviously interested in Pitcher, they're inter doing former Bengals QB
coach in Brown's OC Alex van Pelt for the Raiders OC job this week.
Loop Getsy is another name that's been mentioned for that Raiders job, So the
Raiders casting a pretty big net as well. Let's discuss some of the procedural
things that we mentioned that the Bengals will have to interview multiple coaches, so
let's dive into that coming up next. Today's show is brought to you by
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The Raiders going after Marvin Lewis's old Bengals coaches. Marvin Lewis hired Alex Van
Pelt in twenty eighteen. That's a good coach. I think he's a good
coach. Yeah, I mean we were pretty happy about that hire for the
Bengals back in twenty eighteen. He was exact for a little bit. Zach
kept him for a year before he was hired away by the Cleveland Browns to
be their offensive coordinator or was the quarterbacks coach there first? Yeah, No,
offensive coordinator was initial hire for Kevin Stefanski and Cleveland, so Raiders looking
at some of Marvin's old friends. Marvin Lewis of course said to be part
of that staff with Antonio Pierce. But the Bengals have some requirements to meet
before they are allowed to make an official higher at offensive coordinator. This would
also apply to quarterbacks coach, I believe, But for coordinator positions in the
NFL, the Rooney Rule does apply. It was expanded in twenty twenty one
and potentially further since then. If you look at the operations website on the
NFL about the Rooney Rule, it says that for coordinator jobs, one external
minority candidate must be interviewed before a team is allowed to make a higher at
coordinator. I think that's been expanded to two. It appears that that's been
expanded to two. Kelsey Conway has some good reporting around that those interviews can
be virtual, they can be in person, So the Bengals could be as
we're recording this episode, James conducting a couple of virtual interviews with some external
candidates to meet that requirement, or because there are some people that Zach Taylor
knows and is interested in as offensive coordinator options. The Routey rule is in
place, the Bengals must meet that requirement. We can talk about the Rooney
rule and its faults and its Shortcummings if we wanted to, I personally just
to get off my soapbox here. If I can think it's a flawed rule,
it leads to sham interviews. Hopefully that's not the case with the Bengals
here, but we know that Dan Pitcher is their top priority. We've talked
about that a lot, and so hopefully any interviews they have with external candidates
are legitimate and maybe one sways them. But that is a requirement that the
Bengals must meet before they announced an official offensive coordinator of the future one coordinator,
and I hope it's a real interview. I would reach out to Brian
Johnson, the old ego ZOC. That would be someone that would be on
my list. Now I look just to see if there were any ties to
Zach and they're not, and that's a factor certainly another one. And I'm
not even listing names for a rooty role. I just mean potential targets,
because you just never know. Zach Robinson continues to get interviews and quarterbacks coach
of the Rams was in LA when Zach was as well. Well. I
think those are two names. And then the other one in this again has
nothing to do with the rule. But I want to mention Troy Walters.
I think Troy Walters. Let's say Dan Pitcher specifically wants to go to Las
Vegas because he likes the slots right, because it's sure as hell isn't because
a quarterback play. Well, if he does that, Troy Walters would be
on my list, in pretty high on my list. I think Troy gets
it. So I think the Bengals there are candidates not named Joe Brady,
not named Dan Pitcher that they should look at or will look at, or
at least will discuss, and to your point, they will conduct a couple
of interviews as well. Yeah, go look at the players coaches that are
in the current coaching carousel. That there are some connections with Zach Taylor historically,
and that's a good place to find potential candidates a lot of the time.
And Zach told Dave Lapham on Dave Lapham's show that there's some guys he
knows that he's potentially gonna want to talk to, some guys he wants get
to know, and they will have to go through those interview processes. One
more quick thing as far as Dan Pitcher, there are two reasons why he
could still take the interviews even if things are going well. Bengals lives,
and he thinks the first one pretty simple. They still have to do business
as usual and make sure that they meet the requirements of the Rooney Roll,
and they do want to look elsewhere. So even if they do think that
they're going to get an agreement in place officially with Dan Pitcher, maybe that's
something that happens after he interviews with the Patriots today, or interviews with the
Raiders and flies to Vegas. The other part of this, if you're Dan
Pitcher and you're thinking about becoming a head coach next off season and the off
season after taking these cross country flights going on in formal interviews, that doesn't
hurt you like that experience is valuable. So I think there are a couple
of reasons why he might do that. Valuable experience, valuable connections. Even
if it's not OC this year, maybe it's head coach next year. The
New Orleans I don't know, New Orleans Saints, Las Vegas Raiders. Probably
not the New England Patriots. Probably not the Raiders either, but it is
the Raiders, but hey, the Saints. Do you know something Jake oh
Man, I know nothing to be abundantly clear about this, but for a
number of reasons, maybe the Bengals are blown away in one of their external
candidate interviews that they conduct, because they will have to do at least two.
Maybe the Bengals are blown away in some other capacity. But I do
believe that their top priority is retaining the services of Dan Pitcher based on the
things that we understand right now. Troy Walter is, by the way,
just in case you're wondering, does not satisfy any Ruoney Rule requirements because he
is an internal candidate. The Runey rule requirements specifically specify external minority candidates.
So we'll see if we get some reporting around interviews being completed potentially with the
Bengals, you might see some of those between the time of our recording episodes.
We're recording this, we're going to publish it. Then you might see
some reports of Bengals OC interviews being completed before you hear from us next.
But we will have you covered as soon as possible after the Bengals make some
moves here on the OC front and we get some more clarity around what will
be going on with that position for the Bengals going forward, and until then,
we appreciate you listening to this episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. Who
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