1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:04,360 Hey, everybody, and welcome to life as gamble. I am very pleased 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:09,919 today that my guest is the legendary gambler Billy Baxter. Over the last thirteen 3 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:15,759 years, I've done over six hundred episodes of Gambling with an Edge, and 4 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:20,760 when people ask me who are your favorite guests, top of my list has 5 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:27,359 always been Billy Baxter, just because he knows how to tell a story and 6 00:00:27,519 --> 00:00:33,799 he's had a fascinating life. Also, I just wanted to say that all 7 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:39,439 professional gamblers owe him a huge debt because he is the one who fought the 8 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:47,880 case with the Irs Baxter versus the United States allowing gambling as a profession, 9 00:00:48,119 --> 00:00:54,799 and the court ruled in Baxter's favor that gambling earnings could be considered earned income. 10 00:00:55,560 --> 00:01:00,240 And because otherwise professional gambling would be a night mere tax wise, I 11 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:03,400 mean, it's already kind of a nightmare, but you know what I mean. 12 00:01:03,959 --> 00:01:11,239 So, Billy is now eighty three and last year he was inducted into 13 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:17,280 the Sports Betting Hall of Fame and an amazing accomplishment in the World Series of 14 00:01:17,359 --> 00:01:26,599 Poker Senior event, out of almost eight two hundred entries, he came in 15 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,200 second, and you know, just because it's a senior event. These are 16 00:01:30,239 --> 00:01:37,159 not doddering old old men. I mean, there are a lot of really 17 00:01:37,239 --> 00:01:41,760 strong players that were in this event. And for him to come in second, 18 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:47,280 he is a seven time World Series of Poker bracelet winner, and that 19 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:52,200 would have been his eighth. But anyway, an amazing accomplishment at eighty three. 20 00:01:52,319 --> 00:01:57,040 Because these World Series of Poker events are really a lot of it is 21 00:01:57,319 --> 00:02:07,120 endurance, So kudos to Billy for that. Anyway, now here's the show. 22 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,199 Billy. I'm so happy you're here and we can talk. Well, 23 00:02:24,199 --> 00:02:27,680 it's good to be here. How you doing good? Good? Real? 24 00:02:27,719 --> 00:02:31,199 Well? So I want to talk about golf and about boxing. But before 25 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:36,800 we get to that, I just recently learned that you were actually on a 26 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:40,479 chain gang. And for our younger audience who doesn't know what a chain gang 27 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:45,159 is, would you explain what that means. Well, I don't know if 28 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:47,240 this is one of my best stories, but I'll tell it anyway, Benji 29 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:52,960 asked. Back in my early day, before I came to Las Vegas, 30 00:02:53,039 --> 00:03:00,599 this is prior to nineteen seventy five, I actually had a little gambling casino 31 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:06,400 in Georgia, which was very illegal. We had craps, roulette, blackjack, 32 00:03:06,599 --> 00:03:09,240 just like Las Vegas, and we were open all night every night, 33 00:03:10,039 --> 00:03:15,080 and it was very much against the law also. But at any rate, 34 00:03:15,479 --> 00:03:20,520 this is any of the stories I tell you all verifiable. You can get 35 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,840 your nineteen eighty four issue of Sports Illustrated. The front cover I think has 36 00:03:24,879 --> 00:03:30,439 Alan Trammel on the front issues to May of nineteen eighty four, and there's 37 00:03:30,479 --> 00:03:35,000 a ten page story in there that will tell you about the FBI and the 38 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:39,240 Georgia Bureau of Investigation knocking the door down of my casino, which was during 39 00:03:39,319 --> 00:03:45,759 the Master's golf tumber. This is in Augusta, Georgia and famous football player 40 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:49,879 Serny Jergison had the craps in his hand when the door when the doors came 41 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:53,479 down. But anyway, out of that, I wound up getting a year 42 00:03:53,520 --> 00:04:00,919 in jail, and I was able to run that concurrently with federal book baking 43 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:05,080 cases that I had at the time, and the government they just wanted a 44 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:12,400 conviction, so they allowed me to run the state case with the federal case, 45 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,199 so I was able to do the time in my hometown in the prison 46 00:04:15,279 --> 00:04:21,279 there. And this was on a road called Tobacco Road in Augusta, Georgia, 47 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:26,199 And in those days, they had a chain gang, just like they 48 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:30,240 do you see in the movies from years ago. They had the prisoners where 49 00:04:30,439 --> 00:04:35,920 their feet were tied to the together, and they had one guard at the 50 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:41,079 front with a shotgun and one guard at the back with a shotgun, and 51 00:04:41,199 --> 00:04:45,240 the truck was loaded with the hound dogs ready to chase anybody got away. 52 00:04:45,319 --> 00:04:47,800 Well, when I first went to prison, that was where I was headed. 53 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:51,240 But the good news about the stories, I wound up not having to 54 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:57,240 go out every day on the actual chain gang and do that because I had 55 00:04:58,439 --> 00:05:01,120 well i'll just say I had a little help and I was able to get 56 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:06,079 a job in the parts department, which is where we fixed the trucks and 57 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:10,920 all that took the prisoners out to work on the chain game. So I 58 00:05:10,959 --> 00:05:15,399 avoided the actual swing blade duty. So the swing blade you would be chopping, 59 00:05:15,759 --> 00:05:18,319 Yeah, you chopped grass on the side of the road, picked up 60 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:25,040 trash and whatever. The twenty or so prisoners that were tied together and that 61 00:05:25,079 --> 00:05:28,519 went on. I mean, that's just the way the prison system was back 62 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:30,920 in those days. Is we're not talking about a long time ago. This 63 00:05:30,959 --> 00:05:35,000 is in nineteen seventy five in Augusta, Georgia. It's amazing it was still 64 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:40,079 going on then. Yes, great movie about that for anybody who hasn't seen 65 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:44,199 it, there's a great movie with Paul Newman called Cool Handling Lucas exactly. 66 00:05:44,959 --> 00:05:49,600 But okay, So anyway, then I wanted to get into boxing because I 67 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:55,120 understand you used to manage boxers. Is that right? That's correct? Yes, 68 00:05:55,439 --> 00:05:59,800 how did that happen? Well, that was because of my gambling activity. 69 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:03,279 I would always better. I like to bet on boxing. That was 70 00:06:03,319 --> 00:06:09,720 one of the things that I thought I did best was watching sporting events and 71 00:06:10,199 --> 00:06:15,279 being able to determine which team was better or whether it be basketball or football 72 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:19,240 or whatever it was. And the same thing applied to boxing. So in 73 00:06:19,399 --> 00:06:24,560 order to bet successfully, in my mind, I would go to the gyms 74 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:29,279 to watch people train when they were here for big fights and all that I 75 00:06:29,399 --> 00:06:33,879 was interested in betting on. And one day I was in the gym and 76 00:06:33,959 --> 00:06:39,199 the young kid named Roger Mayweather came to town. He got through out of 77 00:06:39,199 --> 00:06:44,160 the Olympics and right before the Olympic trials for a bad attitude, and he's 78 00:06:44,199 --> 00:06:47,360 in the gym and he's beating up all these pretty good fighters that I knew 79 00:06:47,399 --> 00:06:50,240 about, and I said, well, who is that kid, and they 80 00:06:50,319 --> 00:06:54,480 said, well, that's Roger Maywell. He just got threes out in town 81 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:59,160 here looking for a manager, and I had never did that before. So 82 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,800 Steve after his workout and talked to him and we came to an agreement and 83 00:07:03,879 --> 00:07:11,319 I became his manager, and thirteen fights later, after having no pro experience, 84 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,560 in his thirteenth fight, I put him in for the world championship. 85 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:19,959 He fought a guy named Sammy Serrano and San Juan Puerto Rico and Roberta Komeni 86 00:07:20,079 --> 00:07:26,439 Stadium before forty thousand fans, and he won the world title. The guy 87 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,399 had lost a fight in ten years. He knocked him out and there I 88 00:07:29,399 --> 00:07:31,680 think it was eighth or ninth round. Wow. That's how I got in 89 00:07:31,759 --> 00:07:36,240 the business. And then from there I became Bruce Curry's manager, who went 90 00:07:36,279 --> 00:07:43,160 on to become the welterweight Champion, Junior welterweight Champion of the World. And 91 00:07:43,199 --> 00:07:48,720 my last fighter was Vernon Forrest, who fought Shane Mosley twice and was our 92 00:07:48,879 --> 00:07:54,720 represented in the Olympic trials and he was became wel toweight champion of the world. 93 00:07:54,759 --> 00:07:58,079 So I had three fighters. I never had a fight to lose a 94 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,800 fight out of seventy five fight. It's the first seventy five fights they ever 95 00:08:01,879 --> 00:08:07,040 had, and they all three became world champion without ever losing a fight. 96 00:08:07,399 --> 00:08:11,879 Wow, Now did you have to deal with people like Don King to set 97 00:08:11,959 --> 00:08:16,519 these matches? Was? Don King was our promoter for the for Mayweather's first 98 00:08:16,519 --> 00:08:20,160 title offense I took. I went to see him because it was very difficult 99 00:08:20,199 --> 00:08:24,000 to get raided back in those days. You almost had to buy your rating 100 00:08:24,079 --> 00:08:26,680 and that sort of thing, or have somebody to push you to get in 101 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:31,800 there. So I approached Don about Roger and told him that you know, 102 00:08:31,879 --> 00:08:37,080 this kid is exceptional. He can beat anybody at one hundred and thirty pounds. 103 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,799 And he said, we really you don't you think you need to give 104 00:08:39,879 --> 00:08:43,080 him a few more fights. He's only had thirteen fights. I said, 105 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,440 you get him to fight, I promise you he'll win. And he says, 106 00:08:46,919 --> 00:08:50,799 well, you got a pretty good reputation I understand in the gambling world 107 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:52,720 for picking winners and all. They says, So I'm gonna give you a 108 00:08:52,799 --> 00:08:56,440 chance. I'm gonna get you this fight. All you got to do is 109 00:08:56,519 --> 00:09:03,000 sign this promotional agreement, so he became our promoter. Ah, and did 110 00:09:03,039 --> 00:09:05,559 he end up screwing you? I mean, I thought that was his m 111 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:09,840 to say Don's still alive. I think so. Well. Actually I like 112 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:13,840 Don quite a bit, but I think that him and Aaron both fallen just 113 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,399 under the same umbrella. They were like one A and one B. They 114 00:09:18,399 --> 00:09:22,600 weren't entry. I don't think anyone was. They both had not the greatest 115 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:28,320 effort reputations for treating the fighters that well, but they both were great promoters. 116 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:37,399 So the controversy came with the Sugar Ray Leonard Hagler fight. Was it? 117 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,519 Yeah, that was a fight that was in Vegas, in one of 118 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:45,480 the fights that I bet about three hundred thousand on this fight. It taken 119 00:09:45,639 --> 00:09:48,639 like whatever it was I forgot. I think it was around three to one 120 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:54,159 because Lenyard had been off for about a year or so and Hagler was like 121 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:58,679 pretty well thought of, is pretty much unbeatable at middleweight, and Lenyard was 122 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:03,799 moving up from forty seven pounds after being off about a year, a year 123 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:09,159 and a half maybe longer that I just don't recall exactly. And somehow with 124 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:13,200 my deductions, I came up. I thought he could win this fight, 125 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:18,320 so I made a pretty large bed on the fight, and of course we 126 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:24,000 won a very close decision, which Bob Aram was the promoter at the time, 127 00:10:24,799 --> 00:10:30,240 and he knew that if Hagler lost and Leonard won, that Leonard's trainer 128 00:10:30,279 --> 00:10:33,960 would not let him be the promoter for the next fight. I'm kind of 129 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:39,639 explaining how this thick story came about. And AERM at the time was writing 130 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:45,240 a story for the Las Vegas Sun on Sunday, and the fight didn't get 131 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:50,360 over till like nearly eleven o'clock at night and the Sunday morning paper which come 132 00:10:50,399 --> 00:10:54,080 out at like one one thirty in the morning. Somehow another he managed to 133 00:10:54,159 --> 00:10:58,879 race out of the stadium down to the Sun and my picture wound up in 134 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:09,360 the paper for uh having fixed the Hagler Leonard fight. And of course that 135 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:13,559 was later through a grand jury investigation everything else. Who was determined that I 136 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:18,720 didn't have anything to do with it. But I actually I should have sued 137 00:11:18,799 --> 00:11:20,960 Aram, but at the time I'm just not the sue in type, so 138 00:11:22,399 --> 00:11:26,240 I just let it go. Yeah. Well, and and it might have 139 00:11:26,279 --> 00:11:31,600 been difficult to prove it was Aram that that said it or that was it 140 00:11:31,759 --> 00:11:37,039 wasn't too too difficult, but we just let it go. So did you 141 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:39,759 like the boxing business? I actually loved the boxing. But we went all 142 00:11:39,759 --> 00:11:43,039 over the world. I went to Japan with Bruce Curry. We fought an 143 00:11:43,399 --> 00:11:52,039 undefeated fighter in Japan, and uh just this king was our promoter with that 144 00:11:52,039 --> 00:11:56,039 fight. Also, Aram was my promoter with Vernon Forrest and but anyway, 145 00:11:58,519 --> 00:12:01,440 we went to Japan and when we got off the plane, this kids we 146 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:03,639 were fighting. If we were led to believe, it'd be a pretty easy 147 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:05,879 fact. But when we got off the plane, the first thing we saw 148 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:11,240 was his picture on the in the airport going out, they had about thirty 149 00:12:11,519 --> 00:12:16,600 newspaper people greet us at the airport, which is pretty unusual. And I 150 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:20,960 see this kid's picture on the wall that says it's hit Sue Akaya, which 151 00:12:22,039 --> 00:12:24,799 was his name, and he's on the American Express card that says don't leave 152 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:28,480 home without it. So I said, you know, this kid must be 153 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:33,440 pretty popular over here. We wound up fighting in his college gymnasium. It 154 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:39,679 was a college student and it was pretty intimidating. They turned all the heat 155 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,399 off. It was in July and people were actually was so hot they were 156 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:48,159 ringing the dresses out and squeezing water out of them at the fight. Just 157 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:52,639 your dress that you had on, that's how hot it was. Wow. 158 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:56,240 Wow. Needless say, Bruce did come back and win that fighting about the 159 00:12:56,279 --> 00:13:00,159 eighth round by not fifth, well I'm not sure the round, but he 160 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:03,039 won by knockout because he was losing every round up there. Oh wow, 161 00:13:03,519 --> 00:13:09,759 huh why'd you Why did you end up getting out of the boxing business. 162 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:13,360 Well, that's ah, that's the reason I got this is I'll tell a 163 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:18,080 quick bad beat. This is this is a real bad beat story. H 164 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:26,399 Vernon was eighteen and oh with arom and he's getting ready to participate with the 165 00:13:26,399 --> 00:13:31,080 world title fight I'm right before that, and he was approached by some black 166 00:13:31,159 --> 00:13:37,039 attorneys I believe they were out of I believe they were black out of Atlanta 167 00:13:37,639 --> 00:13:43,799 that talked to Vernon about if he could get away from that guy that's managing 168 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:48,039 you, we'll give give you quite a bit of money and you can, 169 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:52,080 uh, we'll do a lot of things for you that he's not doing that. 170 00:13:52,279 --> 00:13:56,720 So he and he's from my hometown. That's how we became. I 171 00:13:56,759 --> 00:14:01,480 had helped him quite a bit through the amateur and all, and insisted that 172 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:05,559 he lead stay in the amateurs and go to the Olympics, which he did. 173 00:14:05,879 --> 00:14:09,720 He beat Mosley in the Olympic trials to go Olympics. Also he lost 174 00:14:09,759 --> 00:14:13,559 in the Olympics, but you know, he probably should have won, but 175 00:14:13,639 --> 00:14:18,480 he didn't. But anyway, so he was approached by these people. So 176 00:14:18,519 --> 00:14:24,600 he being a poor kid growing up poor because I actually used to take groceries 177 00:14:24,639 --> 00:14:28,559 to the house back and he was from my hometown. That's how I knew 178 00:14:28,559 --> 00:14:33,559 about it. He's from Augusta, Georgia, and they were very poor, 179 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:35,960 and I helped his family out. And also I felt like I had a 180 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:43,120 really good obligation from him to stay with me because I had took him from 181 00:14:43,159 --> 00:14:46,759 the very beginning and insisted on him stay an amateur. But then when he 182 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,480 turned pro, he did come with me. So now he's eighteen and oh 183 00:14:50,519 --> 00:14:56,480 and he goes to the commission and files the griefs that he's we're not getting 184 00:14:56,519 --> 00:15:01,399 along was his excuse, and he wanted to make a change. But in 185 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:05,159 fact these people were offering him quite a bit of money to get rid of 186 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:11,360 me, and signed with them. So the Commission here ruled in his favor, 187 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:15,559 and he was, I had two more years on the contract, So 188 00:15:15,679 --> 00:15:18,399 in my mind, if you got a contract with two more years, they 189 00:15:20,279 --> 00:15:24,240 on. The ruling was the arbitration. The ruling was there was a black 190 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:30,360 arbitrator by the name of Luther Mack and he was assigned the case and he 191 00:15:30,519 --> 00:15:33,639 ruled in Vernon's favor to let him go. And he says, but I'm 192 00:15:33,679 --> 00:15:37,360 a rude that Vernon should give you like two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. 193 00:15:37,039 --> 00:15:41,440 And I said, well, I don't need the money. If I've done 194 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:45,240 something wrong, just let him go. I said, I got money. 195 00:15:45,279 --> 00:15:46,440 I said, I don't need to. They says, oh no, I 196 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:50,360 think you should deserve something. So that just tells you how bogus the release 197 00:15:50,519 --> 00:15:54,360 is. Nor is if I've done something wrong, just let him go for 198 00:15:54,399 --> 00:15:56,960 nothing, right, But they insisted that he give me money, which he 199 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:03,919 did, which I think obviously came from the attorneys that were rent us, 200 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:07,840 and naturally, I think he became world champion to fight after our release when 201 00:16:07,879 --> 00:16:12,039 he beat Chain Moseley. So I lost the fighter and art so that soured 202 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:18,000 me on boxing, which leads me up to one of the great all time 203 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:22,200 bad beat stories of all time. So now I decide I get tired of 204 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:26,120 boxing. I retire from gambling everything. I moved back to Augusta, Georgia, 205 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:30,559 by a place back there on about thirty acres, and I'm going to 206 00:16:30,639 --> 00:16:36,000 spend time with my kids and whatever. And I'm done with boxing and everything, 207 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:41,120 and gambling for that matter. And then I get a phone call and 208 00:16:41,159 --> 00:16:48,279 it's from Floyd Mayweather Senior, who's in the federal penitentiary during a fifteen year 209 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:56,080 sentence for a drug kingpin charge. And he says, Billy, this is 210 00:16:56,080 --> 00:17:00,159 Floyd Mayweather Senior. I'm calling you about my son, Floyd Junior. He's 211 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:06,799 a very good fighter. You've done such a wonderful job with my brother Roger, 212 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,960 and he was very happy with you all through his career. I want 213 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:15,160 you to manage my son for me while I'm in the federal penitentiary. I 214 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:19,559 want you to take him on. Oh my god, I said Floyd. 215 00:17:21,279 --> 00:17:23,799 I appreciate I heard he's a really good fighter, but I'm going to turn 216 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:29,079 you down. I'm just I'm out of the boxing business. I'm so disgusted 217 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,559 with that. I'm done. Well. He only made a billion dollars and 218 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:34,519 I would have got a third of that, which is about three hundred and 219 00:17:34,519 --> 00:17:38,559 thirty million. So I guess you could call that a bad beach story. 220 00:17:38,759 --> 00:17:45,079 I guess Oh my god, oh wow, beg me to take him? 221 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:56,279 Oh man, I wouldn't take him for free? Wow Wow pretty good? 222 00:17:56,359 --> 00:18:02,599 Yeah, sure is should get on the bad beats on football man. Yeah, 223 00:18:02,599 --> 00:18:04,759 they have a program on that now, Bad beat Stories. Yeah, 224 00:18:04,799 --> 00:18:10,599 I'll put that out with a lot of them. At thirty million. Yep. 225 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,519 Yeah, I don't think I've heard one worse than that. So, 226 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,799 Augusta, you grew up going to the Masters or never missed around from the 227 00:18:18,839 --> 00:18:22,759 time I was thirteen years old, even when I moved out here in seventy 228 00:18:22,799 --> 00:18:29,440 five until the only year that I ever really legitimate ever missed was the year 229 00:18:29,519 --> 00:18:32,880 that I was in jail. I was close to that chain gang and you 230 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:37,559 talking about, Yeah, they wouldn't let me go then. So you probably 231 00:18:37,759 --> 00:18:44,079 bet more money at golf than pretty much anybody. I mean, I'm talking 232 00:18:44,079 --> 00:18:48,519 about like not necessarily on pro golf, but I'm playing golf. I was 233 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:52,160 have a very good golfer, but I did play a lot of golf for 234 00:18:52,279 --> 00:18:56,119 money. I had a partner who was pretty good with Doo Brunson. Door 235 00:18:56,319 --> 00:19:02,920 was about seventy four or seventy five offer, but he was able to match 236 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:07,359 up at around seventy nine, so he had a very good handicap gambling purposes 237 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,599 and what was you or me? I was terrible. I shot about eighty 238 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,680 eight, but I couldn't hit the wood, so only I would shooting my 239 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:19,599 eighty with just irons only I was only playing with I never hit anything. 240 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,960 In fact, I couldn't anything. I never hit anything beyond a four iron. 241 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,519 I shoot eighty eight with a four iron up, and so I was 242 00:19:26,559 --> 00:19:30,880 just very ordinary. I could put in chip. So the way men Dobo 243 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,880 played, he matched up everything to where he would play with all the clubs. 244 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:37,599 I only played with a foe iron off, so they always gave me 245 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:41,000 a very good handicap. And we played a lot of money golf, me 246 00:19:41,079 --> 00:19:47,799 and Door. We played the guys that owned the Royal Casino. His name 247 00:19:47,839 --> 00:19:51,920 was Joe Sliman. I think he's still around town. I think he's in 248 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,680 the real estate business now, but he was making a lot of money back 249 00:19:55,680 --> 00:20:00,240 in those days. We played a lot of Nassau's fifty thousand dollars. Nassau 250 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:06,839 two down press has doubled the back four and five hundred thousand changed hands a 251 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,440 lot of time. Me and Doyle scrambled the Las Vegas Country Club. The 252 00:20:10,559 --> 00:20:14,599 last match we ever played with Joe Slamm and them. Me and Doyle shot 253 00:20:14,759 --> 00:20:18,359 sixty at the lost No. I was told, I'm telling it run shot 254 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:22,319 sixty two at the Las Vegas Country Club. Wow. Wow, let's just 255 00:20:22,319 --> 00:20:26,880 say we won about six hundred thousand. So when and these figures are you 256 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:32,640 were playing this high back in like the seventies, seventy five to eighty two, 257 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,640 And did you give up golf at that point order, Well, that's 258 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:38,920 another story if you want to just want to go absolutely sure. Uh. 259 00:20:40,519 --> 00:20:42,880 One day I go to the golf course. I'm playing. He's actually the 260 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:48,880 guy that won the World Series with one chip. It's called a chipun chip. 261 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,079 Jack Strauss, Yeah, yeah, three time. Me and Jack were 262 00:20:52,079 --> 00:20:55,480 playing golf all the time, and we matched up all the time, so 263 00:20:55,519 --> 00:20:59,160 we pretty much knew each other's games. And so one day they give me 264 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:03,559 a game that I felt like I couldn't lose that, So me and Dole 265 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,680 went business with other things at the time. I won't get into all that. 266 00:21:07,759 --> 00:21:11,039 But at any rate, Uh, we go to the golf But me 267 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,480 and Dole always gambled against each other even when we were together. It was 268 00:21:14,559 --> 00:21:19,319 like he was he could never bet enough on anything. So when he would 269 00:21:19,319 --> 00:21:22,720 bet golf matches that I wasn't involved with, that was part of my job. 270 00:21:22,759 --> 00:21:29,039 I had to bet against him. But anyway, we go to golf 271 00:21:29,079 --> 00:21:33,079 course and they make this match and they were giving me a spot that I 272 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:40,759 felt like for sure I had the nuts actually, and everybody starts betting. 273 00:21:40,799 --> 00:21:45,119 It's like and Tony Spilotro's out of that too, the famous gangster, and 274 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,480 he was betting against me, and a lot of a lot of tough guys, 275 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,759 and so it winds up so many people wanted to bet. I said, 276 00:21:52,759 --> 00:21:53,240 well, hold on, boys, wait a minute. I got to 277 00:21:53,279 --> 00:21:56,680 get my napkin out, so I write down this guy had a five fown 278 00:21:56,799 --> 00:22:00,480 on on that. So that guy had a five And then all of a 279 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,319 sudden, Doyle, who was there for breakfast, he said, okay, 280 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:07,039 you can give me a five pound dollar in that saw too. So anyway 281 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:11,559 we go out to play in the first hole, I'll get it back. 282 00:22:11,599 --> 00:22:14,839 And once again this match I had to play with woods, which was different 283 00:22:14,839 --> 00:22:18,079 from me, and I wasn't very good at him. So now the first 284 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:22,079 swinging almost whifted the ball, and the ball whiffle ball out to the right 285 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:26,920 wing out to the right, almost fanned it. And I was good enough. 286 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,640 I didn't fan ball, so this didn't feel. I knew something was 287 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,680 wrong. So I lose. So we go to the second hold of the 288 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,000 same thing occurs. I almost whiff of it again. So I says, 289 00:22:37,279 --> 00:22:41,119 gentlemen, there's something wrong with my clubs. So I start. I turned 290 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,559 the car around. There's maybe twenty golf cards following us. I go back 291 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,160 up to the club that's with the Sahara and I take my clubs in there 292 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,440 to the insplotry. I remember his famous he said, oh god, damn, 293 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:55,720 you get one shot down, you start crying. Something's wrong. So 294 00:22:55,799 --> 00:22:59,799 anyway, we go to clubhouse and the pro takes the screw. Back those 295 00:22:59,839 --> 00:23:03,240 days, you had metal balls in the weight, which was the weight in 296 00:23:03,279 --> 00:23:06,160 the clubs. And when he opened it up, he said, well, 297 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,279 I got bad. He says, looks like a bunch of woodpeckers have been 298 00:23:08,319 --> 00:23:11,960 in your woods. He says, they're taking the weights out of your woods 299 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,799 and then he checked the irons, like the nine irons were made to like 300 00:23:15,839 --> 00:23:19,640 a seven, and every club has been up. So we had left our 301 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,000 clubs overnight, so they had docted all my clubs up overnight. So I 302 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,640 go back out and say, well, boys, I didn't caught y'all with 303 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,720 too many cards in your hand, y'all y'all sheeting, I said, y'all, 304 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,000 let me get some clubs we could. So naturally, they don't want 305 00:23:33,039 --> 00:23:37,839 to play this match on the legit because they know that, so anyway, 306 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,559 we won't going to all how that come down. It was big argument and 307 00:23:41,599 --> 00:23:45,200 everything, but at any rate, we ended that match. But now to 308 00:23:45,279 --> 00:23:48,559 make a long so now, but one of the sidelights of this story, 309 00:23:48,559 --> 00:23:52,039 which I thought was very funny, I went into the clubhousing doors still in 310 00:23:52,079 --> 00:23:56,400 the eating breakfast, and I said, because we were like partners and business 311 00:23:56,559 --> 00:23:57,960 or a couple of things, I said, door, let me in something. 312 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,519 I says, why was you so anxious to bet on that match? 313 00:24:00,599 --> 00:24:03,240 And you know, I had the nuts, And he got kind of red 314 00:24:03,279 --> 00:24:07,440 in the face, and he looked at me and he says, you know 315 00:24:07,519 --> 00:24:11,240 what, Billy says to tell you the truth? Everybody said today might be 316 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:17,440 a really good day to bet. So I thought that was a classic statement, 317 00:24:18,599 --> 00:24:22,279 they might be a really good day to bet. Yeah. Wow. 318 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:27,200 There was final results of that as I took my clubs, run out there 319 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,920 and threw them in the pond. Harrah, if you go out there, 320 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:36,480 you might just go out there and find them now. And that's been thirty 321 00:24:36,519 --> 00:24:40,240 forty years ago. I've never played another round of golf since. Oh really, 322 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:45,039 wow, that was in my last golf Wow. So back in the 323 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,279 day, did you play it all with Jimmy Chagra, Because I know he 324 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:52,960 had some legends. Let me Chagra. I was the main spot with That's 325 00:24:53,599 --> 00:24:57,359 part of my poker history. When Chagra came to town, he was playing 326 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:02,599 in the poker game with me, Serget Bobby Baldwin. It was probably the 327 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:06,400 biggest poker game they ever had in Las Vegas. We were playing five hundred 328 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,119 and eight thousand, two blinds, no limit due to the seven in the 329 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:15,640 seventies and anyway, Chagra was losing a million a day on the golf course 330 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,039 and I was one of the ones out there betting against him. Normal day 331 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:22,440 was thirty forty fifty thousand. He lost millions, but he was trying to 332 00:25:22,519 --> 00:25:26,400 line He wasn't trying to line the money. He was just trying to act 333 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:30,119 like a gambler because he knew he was under a federal indictment in Texas for 334 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:37,319 he was a drug on a drug kingpin charge. And so his solution of 335 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:41,880 the problem was he had the judge who was called Maximum John Woods. He 336 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:48,000 was known for killing or for sentencing drug dealers to big sentences. He had 337 00:25:48,039 --> 00:25:52,000 Woody Harrilson, the movie Stars daddy shoot the federal judge dead on his front 338 00:25:52,039 --> 00:25:55,599 porch. I don't know if you know that part of the story. Yeah, 339 00:25:55,799 --> 00:25:59,400 and he's still in prison, right, well he probably, Yeah, 340 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,920 they let give me out a month or two before. He had treminal cancer 341 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,359 that led him out and he died within a month of being released from prison. 342 00:26:06,599 --> 00:26:08,799 Yeah. Yeah, No, I meant his Woody Harrelson's dad, I 343 00:26:08,839 --> 00:26:12,920 think is still in prison. But you don't never get out from killing a 344 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:17,680 federal judge. Yeah. Yeah, that's like, I mean a lot of 345 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:22,039 people don't know it, but at that time, this was the second biggest 346 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:26,519 federal investigation that's ever been in this country. Was that they had two hundred 347 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:32,240 special agents of the FBI that was sent to Las Vegas, Nevada, to 348 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:38,119 investigate the killing of John Woods, a federal judge. The biggest investigation ever 349 00:26:38,319 --> 00:26:44,440 was the Kennedy assassination and the killing of John Wood. The federal judge was 350 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,880 the seconds. And that's when they had so much heat in Las Vegas on 351 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:52,160 all Gamma. That's when they broke up the skim at the Sahara, I 352 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:56,000 mean at the start of the hotel, and that's when all that came down, 353 00:26:56,039 --> 00:27:00,880 when the two hundred special agents were here. Wow. Yeah. And 354 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:07,200 another sort of legendary guy blowing off money at golf was Jay Sarno. Did 355 00:27:07,279 --> 00:27:11,599 you build a part of that? But you're one hundred percent right. They 356 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:15,720 had a crew around the Las Vegas Country Club that played with him every day, 357 00:27:15,759 --> 00:27:18,759 and bad as he was, they didn't have to do this. But 358 00:27:18,839 --> 00:27:22,160 I think they had a foursome that no matter who he drew as a partner 359 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:26,200 that day, the other three wall pardoners. So I don't think he had 360 00:27:26,279 --> 00:27:30,839 much of a chance. You know. I remember when I first moved to 361 00:27:30,839 --> 00:27:36,400 town in seventy seven, and you know, I was a kid and I 362 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,160 went to the there was a backam and club at the time. I went 363 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,480 to the Backam Club and the first time I walk in there, I see 364 00:27:41,519 --> 00:27:47,799 Puggy Pearson playing somebody and who for me was like a legend at that time, 365 00:27:47,839 --> 00:27:52,480 because I'd only read about, you know, these people. And one 366 00:27:52,519 --> 00:27:56,720 of the guys at the Backaming Club tells me that Puggy has just won two 367 00:27:56,799 --> 00:28:03,200 hundred thousand dollars that day playing golf off with Jay Sarno, and the next 368 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:08,480 week he was playing seven stud five ten limit because he had blown off all 369 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:14,799 the money. So it just sort of boggled my mind. That guy was. 370 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,759 You know, I had no clue what, you know, what really 371 00:28:18,799 --> 00:28:23,920 went on when I first moved here. But what do you think the biggest 372 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,839 gamble you ever took in your life was? And I don't necessarily mean about 373 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:33,039 money, I just mean the biggest gamble of your life? You ever thought 374 00:28:33,039 --> 00:28:38,240 about that? You know? I always liked to think that I was somewhat 375 00:28:38,279 --> 00:28:42,359 of a manager as a gambler, in the words, I tried to keep 376 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:47,519 my gambling in check to my bank roll in it, and I think that's 377 00:28:47,559 --> 00:28:51,279 one of the keys to success. So I made a lot of big bets 378 00:28:51,279 --> 00:28:55,039 in my life, but many big bets. But I always tried to. 379 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:59,839 Like the Leonard fight, betting three hundred thousand always a big bet, and 380 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,400 I had numerous bets of that night in my life, but I always tried 381 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:10,079 to. I always felt one thing about gambling is your money is like your 382 00:29:10,119 --> 00:29:14,519 toolbox. In other words, when you don't have any tools to work with, 383 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,079 you're out of business. So I always felt like the key to gambling 384 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:23,400 success was being able to I call it answering the bell every day. In 385 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,160 the words, you got to be able to get up and start gambling every 386 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:32,240 day. That means you have to keep money. So I never after my 387 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,880 early years when I was very young, I never put myself in position of 388 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:42,400 going broke again. Yeah, on one bet like you described, but I 389 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:49,119 mean gambles that were not about money, like gambles in your life. Where 390 00:29:49,519 --> 00:29:56,839 I did many things that were very unsuccessful. We bought into Dole's room poker 391 00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:03,319 room, which invested I think it was four hundred thousand and uh. Doel 392 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,839 called me one day, this is another bad beat story. Actually, well, 393 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,240 no, I might be the bad beat king with this and Doe I 394 00:30:11,319 --> 00:30:15,599 invested and we were doing very good. And this was before the Black Friday 395 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,599 or whatever it was. About six months before that happened. Door called me 396 00:30:19,599 --> 00:30:25,559 one day says, well, this big, big sports company out of England, 397 00:30:25,599 --> 00:30:29,440 I believe it was, just offered him two hundred million to buy us 398 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,000 out. And of course my part of that would I think I had four 399 00:30:33,039 --> 00:30:37,400 percent or whatever it was. Was like whatever that is, I say eight 400 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:44,359 and which was not the end of the world. But anyway, he I 401 00:30:44,359 --> 00:30:45,480 said, well, it sounded like a good time to sell it to me. 402 00:30:45,759 --> 00:30:48,680 He said, are you kidding? We're gonna get a billion dollars for 403 00:30:48,799 --> 00:30:53,079 this company. Needless to say, three months later the doors came down, 404 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:59,200 everybody got closed up, and naturally we got nothing. For those who don't 405 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:03,640 know, Big Doyle's Room was an online poker site and then all those got 406 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:10,680 shut down at some point. So yeah, yeah, well, you know 407 00:31:10,799 --> 00:31:14,480 this has been great, Billy. Any any other stories come to mind that 408 00:31:15,519 --> 00:31:18,319 before we before we wrap it up. No, I think that's that will 409 00:31:18,359 --> 00:31:22,000 give you a little something to dodge. Yes, Ill, and you know 410 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:26,359 maybe some other Oh I have a lot of stories, but maybe it's some 411 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:30,119 other time. I'll when you have another topic, I'll give you a few 412 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,400 more. Okay, yeah, because I can't get enough, so I just 413 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,200 want to thank you for doing this, so thanks. Just a couple of 414 00:31:37,359 --> 00:31:42,640 endnotes for everybody. Billy Baxter mentioned Jack tree Top Strauss and the chip and 415 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:48,039 a chair, and I thought, for anyone who doesn't know that story, 416 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:55,200 what he's talking about there. So Jack Strauss was called Treetop because he was 417 00:31:55,200 --> 00:32:00,960 six foot six and in nineteen eighty two, at the World Series of Poker, 418 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:07,960 he shoved all his chips in the pot and was eliminated, or so 419 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:13,079 he thought. But then what happened was when he stood up, he found 420 00:32:13,119 --> 00:32:19,000 that he still had a chip that had been under his napkin, and in 421 00:32:19,079 --> 00:32:25,000 today's World Series that he would not keep that chip, he would be eliminated. 422 00:32:25,079 --> 00:32:30,559 But in nineteen eighty two he sat back down with one single chip and 423 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:37,160 ended up winning the World Series of Poker. And from that he said, 424 00:32:37,279 --> 00:32:39,359 in this game, all you need is a chip and a chair to win. 425 00:32:40,839 --> 00:32:45,079 So anyway, that's today's show. I hope you enjoyed it as much 426 00:32:45,119 --> 00:32:50,039 as I did. You can always reach me at Life is a Gamble Pod 427 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:55,359 at gmail dot com, or you can find me on Twitter at RWM twenty 428 00:32:55,400 --> 00:33:05,039 one. Until next time, wait at