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Good afternoon. You're listening to Gambling
with an Edge. Now here are your

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host Bob Dancer and Richard Lunchkin.
Good afternoon, Welcome to Gambling with an

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Edge. I'm Richard Munchkin and I'm
Bob Dancer, and today our guest is

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mister Duppy. Mister Duppy has been
tirelessly doing the show notes for Gambling with

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an Edge for like five years now, so we wanted on our farewell tour.

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We wanted to have him on because
his life has kind of changed considerably

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due to Gambling with an Edge,
and so we wanted to have him on

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to talk about that as a success
story. So, mister Duppy, welcome

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to Gambling with an Edge. YEA, thank you guys. It's certainly great

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to be here. I'm a long
time fan and yeah, I mean it's

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really had a great impact on my
life. So I'm honored to be here.

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Thank you. So can you tell
us basically how that started? How?

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What the how things changed for you
when you started listening to Hambling with

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an Issue core Right, So I
started listening and I was doing very small

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amounts of advantage play. I was
doing like a lot of a lot of

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a lot of couponing and all that
kind of stuff, and I was hustling

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a lot of Ultimate X and my
local casino, and basically there were only

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about two other guys that were checking
the machines all the time. And then

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there was a day that I saw
one of those guys on a carnival game,

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and it just didn't make sense to
me why he would be playing a

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carnival game when there were all these
Ultimate X machines that he could have been

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checking that we're all still good,
and until I apposed the game, and

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then I noticed why he was playing
that carnival game, and that was something

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that I would not have known if
not for gambling with an edge, I

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just would have thought he was playing
on the square. And so that that

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kind of introduced me to that,
and then I ultimately started talking to him

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and I became friends with him,
and then he introduced me to some other

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guys that were very very sharp here
in my hometown, and we've all become

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friends and they've been really really helpful
to me, both psychologically and also in

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terms of like information and getting sharper. And basically it all started because I

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saw that whole card game, which
I would not even have known to look

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for if I hadn't been listening to
gambling with an edge? Wait, what

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did you mean that helpful? Psychologically? Well, like I think when I

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started out, I had a very
small bank roll, and I was accustomed

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to a lot a lot of slings, and so as my bankroll grew,

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there were a lot of opportunities where
like you have to take on some extra

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swing to take on more ed right, And that I think was something that

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I was not accustomed to. And
if I was trying to do that alone,

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I think it would have been hard
to know if this is really the

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correct thing, because we're all kind
of biased by outcomes and trusting the office

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and also seeing people that are successful
tell you that this is the right thing,

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right. That was really really important
to me because otherwise I don't know

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that I could have taken some of
the variants as well as I did.

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Because just like in finance, like
you have a bank roll, but like

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you have a psychological bankroll and you
have a financial bankroll, and if you

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do a play, you have to
meet both criteria, right, And so

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I felt like early on, as
I was ramping up and starting to win

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more, but also starting to lose
more at times. That was kind of

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challenging for me to deal with,
and those guys were really thoughtful in helping

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me get the skills to kind of
psychologically deal with that. If that makes

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sense. Yeah, no, no, no, you have to ramp up

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at your own speed basically. You
know you have to because I remember when

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you know, going from red ships
to green ships. So for in the

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beginning was like, oh man,
this is a lot of money, and

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then you got you get used to
it, and then you go up to

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black ships because it's like, oh
man, this is a lot of money.

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You know, so it just yeah, everybody makes that progression at their

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own speed. Yes, that is
true. But if I had to make

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that progression alone, without a group
of friends or a community, I think

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it would have been much flower And
some of the things that I did were

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very time sensitive, and so you
know, being able to ramp up tasker

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I think was really valuable. Yeah, you mentioned you did Ultimate x vulturing

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and then you learned a little bit
about whole carding. What else did you

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in your eighty adventures? Sure?
Right? So, I mean I think

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that prior to being like in the
casino side, I was always looking for

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ars, like I did a lot
of scalping tickets and anything like that.

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And then once I got into the
casino stuff, like I said, it

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was, it was all of the
it was all of the couponing. I

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did the plot hustling for years,
but now that's very competitive where I lived,

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so I kind of gave that up. And then I had a tip

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once about a lot of replay that
was beatable, and so I did that

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at a very small scale for a
couple of months, kind of solo,

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you know, just doing it by
myself because it wasn't really expensive to do

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it. And then they changed the
stakes on it and it became a lot

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more expensive, which but but it
was the same game, and so it

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became a lot more valuable, and
so I said, I said, So

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I said to my girlfriend at the
time, I said, I need all

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of the money that we have to
like spend a lot of tickets, like

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I need every dollar that we have
not and girlfriends just love that one.

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Well, you know, yeah,
I mean I think it was more surprising

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when we told people that's what happened. You know, they all kind of

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felt the unit Richard. They were
like, why on earth would she agree

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to this, But I think that
I have known that that day might come,

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you know. I think in the
back of her mind she had kind

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of seen me do some other things
and was like, you know, there

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might be a situation when this is
going to happen. And so I told

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her, I said, this is
the situation, and so I need all

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the money that we have, and
how much are we talking here? I

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think at that point our liquid savings, which is all that we could get

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access to in a week with like
forty K and so at the end,

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so at the end of that week, I had eighty four dollars that were

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not in ticket man, and she
was down with it. Well, she

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was down with it because I had
done it on a smaller scale prior.

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It was the same situation, but
now it was just with the stakes were

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higher. Right, So I said, look, I have proof of concept

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that this is gonna work, and
the return on this is excellent, and

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this is like kind of a once
in a lifetime opportunity. Now there were

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lots of other like you know,
small nuances and when you talk about or

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not. But but but because I
had experience doing it prior, I felt

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like it's the same game. You
know, it's just more money, So

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why wouldn't you try to ramp it
up? So you bought forty thousand hours

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worth of lottery tickets, what did
you think your EV was? And then

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what was the result? So that
is a unique situation. So I would

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just say that, like the EV
is above a carnival game by a good

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bit if you have a whole card
information. So you know, it's like

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it depends on which carnival game it
is. But so I buy a lot

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Yeah, sure, I mean it's
not missed to be stud you know,

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but it's it's like it's a little
over thirty wow. So uh, and

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they picked a game that was not
very swingy, which was the mistake,

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I think, Right, So it's
not a very swingy game and the edges

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over thirty percent. And so I
had always made money. I made money

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every time I did it one hundred
percent of the time. And the first

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week that we did it together,
we didn't really make much money at all.

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In fact, I think that she
finished slightly down, and that would

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be like about a ten standard deviation
event. And so something's wrong, right,

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we just have to figure out where, right, um, And so

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what was wrong? Was there was
a software on certain types of buys where

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you would not get the tickets that
you were owed, and and so that

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situation, my opinion is that they're
aware that that exists because on the newer

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software it doesn't exist, but on
the old software it still does. I've

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been updated and I talked to one
of the clerks at a store where I

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was buying tickets and he explained it
to me, and he said, oh,

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no, no, here's the problem, and here's how you fix it.

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So then I was able to fix
it. And you know, I

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feel bad for some guys somewhere who
probably saw this and thought that he could

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also go and just print money and
then didn't realize that the software was off,

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you know, and probably thought the
game was rigged. But yeah,

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I had a very very at a
very very thoughtful store owner. And part

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of the other thing that I would
add is that that was important. It

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was like, I'm finding the right
store to buy the tickets at, because

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what I was afraid of is that
someone could just do this. If someone

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knew what I was doing and they
had access to capital, they could also

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do it. But but what I
also couldn't do is go to a store

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where the guy behind the counter was
like a sixteen year old kid that was

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like, I'm not doing this for
hours and hours and hours. I want

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to sit here on my phone.
And so I think the solution was like

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finding stores that are not crowded,
that are not going to be busy because

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you need lots of volume, and
then finding stores where the owner is the

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cashier because they're making a commission on
every ticket, and a store where the

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owners also not gonna trust the mass. He's just going to think that you're

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a lunatic, and he's going to
be very continuous, and so so you

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didn't try to spread it out.
You put all the money through one store.

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Well, no, because I had
a store and my girlfriend had a

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store. But but I but I
thought that it was important that we buy

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the tickets in person, because I
believe that there are rules about buying tickets

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remotely or dropping off cash or something. So I made sure that we read

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every rule. And with the situation, I have every copy in which it

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was advertised. You know, I
have hard copies of their own posters.

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I took pictures of billboards, and
I made sure that I, you know,

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really really followed the fine print to
the tea because I didn't want any

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problems, and so part of that
was making sure that I was there buying

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them in person and buying them like
a normal customer would. Now I can

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say, you know, as someone
who has always stuttered and who got picked

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on a lot it was a very
interesting feeling to be in a convenience store

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for hours, buying infinite amounts of
lottery again and constantly getting made fun of

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and just really not caring because I
knew, you know, kind of what

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the answer was here. I knew
who the sharpest guy at leaked in that

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store was, and that was an
interesting really happened to me to have that

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competence. Yeah, yeah, what
happened week two? So in we two,

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we figured out the problem with the
software and then just right on ev

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enormous sample exactly where it should be. I mean, there are a couple

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of hiccups, like we would print
so many tickets that the blade would get

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hot, and when the blades would
get hot, they would get resolved to

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cut the ticket. So some days
I would come home with a role,

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you know, like five yards long
of uncut tickets. But yeah, I

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mean, yeah, but I would
say like in general that you know that

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then it worked perfectly as as soon
as the software problem, let's solve,

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it worked perfectly. And yeah,
it was just about you know, trying

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to like trying then to get more
casts for the following week, you know,

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because you need cast all the time, and I was running out of

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money. So I just you know, working crazy days, just you know,

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trying to turn it over. Oh
so, because when you get paid

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this money back, it comes as
a check or something. It technically,

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so I have all these tickets,
then I have to cash all the tickets.

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And so I can either turn the
tickets into cash or I can turn

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the tickets into fouchers and buy more
tickets with the boucher. And so at

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first I was just buying more tickets
with the bouchers because that was the most

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efficient way to do it. But
ten at the end, obviously, like

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you need to get the cats out. And one of the grossest parts about

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these safe sponsored lotteries is there's no
cash out infrastructure because you don't ever take

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the money. You only buy more
tickets. And so, like I would

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go into a grocery store and I'd
be like, I have a lot of

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bousers. Can I have some cats? And they'd be like, yeah,

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right and stuff, and I would
say, no, I have a lot

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of bouchers, Like how much cats
can I have? And they'd say five

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hundred or a thousand dollars? Right, And I'm just like that's not enough,

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that's not enough. But but there's
no right, there's no infrastructure to

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get the money out, which is
which just shows you all predatory that games

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are. Wow. So how long
did this last and how big did it

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get? Yeah, I mean it
lasted. Um, it lasted for a

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couple of months, and then that
they were gonna do it again. Unbelievably,

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they were gonna do it again,
and they were actually gonna do it

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again in a way that had smaller
tickets, and the smaller tickets to a

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print pastor right, and so speed
is everything. And so I was like,

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if they do that, and now
I had some capital, and I

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also had lots of bouchers, and
I was thinking, if they do that,

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I mean I still get kills thinking
about it, because like it would

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have been so much money. And
then they just they pretended it never happened.

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They pulled everything, they just kind
of shut it all down. So

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it stopped after a couple of months. Wow. So so now you have

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this uh newfound success and quite a
bank roll by the end of this lottery

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thing. Where where did you go
from here? Well? Well, well,

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in fact, I thought I was
done with that play, but it

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turned out that I wasn't because the
following year, in the afternoon, I

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had some gentlemen stopped by my house. I had a special agent from the

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US Postal Service, and I had
a special agent from the Department of Homeland

207
00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:04,840
Security. Oh good, yeah,
right, So that's a very special day

208
00:16:04,879 --> 00:16:07,840
in your life when those guys show
up at your back door. Yeah.

209
00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,559
And so that was during the pandemic, and I was here with my girlfriend

210
00:16:11,679 --> 00:16:15,399
because she was off for the summer, and so she went to the back

211
00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,639
door and she said, there were
guys here to you, and I said,

212
00:16:18,639 --> 00:16:22,120
okay, and I went to the
back door. I got the badges

213
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:26,000
and stuff in my face, and
then I'm like, well, I don't

214
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,720
know what to do at this point, because like, I've paid all my

215
00:16:27,759 --> 00:16:32,200
taxes, I did everything right.
I know, I did nothing wrong and

216
00:16:32,279 --> 00:16:36,399
nothing illegal, but I still might
have to pay to defend myself. And

217
00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:41,120
so what should I do? And
so I opened the door, and can't

218
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:42,399
you asked me what my name was? I my name, and then I

219
00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:47,759
said, I said, you guys
are wearing map and I'm not wearing the

220
00:16:47,799 --> 00:16:49,879
map. And I'm assuming if we're
gonna talk, they're gonna be talking for

221
00:16:49,919 --> 00:16:52,639
a while. So do you want
me to get a mask? And I

222
00:16:52,679 --> 00:16:56,720
said yes, Oh, it was
right, and and then so they said

223
00:16:56,799 --> 00:16:57,960
yes, and I got a mask, and I was like, I guess

224
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:03,720
I'll talk to them unless it gets
really competational, in which case I'll just

225
00:17:03,039 --> 00:17:07,240
have to call on a turn.
So I went back and he said okay,

226
00:17:07,519 --> 00:17:11,960
now tell us why we're here.
And so I thought about that question

227
00:17:12,599 --> 00:17:15,920
for a couple of seconds, and
I said, you know, I'm really

228
00:17:17,079 --> 00:17:21,400
happy to speak you gentlemen, but
that question is a little open ended from

229
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:25,720
my taste, and I would prefer
very specific questions. And then they said,

230
00:17:25,799 --> 00:17:29,839
no problem, we have lots and
lots of specific questions for you.

231
00:17:30,559 --> 00:17:33,079
And I said okay. And they
said, so tell us how you know

232
00:17:33,519 --> 00:17:37,000
this one particular person and this other
person. And I said I know them

233
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:41,319
because they work at a store that
I buy a lot of lottery tickets at.

234
00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:47,039
And they said okay, good,
Now tell us why you do that,

235
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:49,480
And I said I'd do it because
some people are bad at math.

236
00:17:51,319 --> 00:17:59,599
And they looked very surfed because,
as it turned out, they were investigating

237
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:04,960
a case at that store, and
so my activity there made it seem like

238
00:18:06,039 --> 00:18:11,599
I was involved in some kind of
illegal activity or possibly illegal activity. Right,

239
00:18:11,599 --> 00:18:17,599
I don't know what happened with the
case, but and so I basically

240
00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:21,960
then I had some screenshots about the
maps and stuff. I had a Google

241
00:18:22,039 --> 00:18:26,440
doc. So I tried to explain
it to them as simply as I could.

242
00:18:26,519 --> 00:18:29,519
I mean, I know they're smart
guys, but I was you know,

243
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,519
they're not ap So I was just
trying to say, look like,

244
00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:37,000
this is why a ticket is valuable, and this is a situation in which

245
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,599
tickets are valuable, and if you
know that they're valuable, then like you

246
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:47,200
should buy as many as you possibly
can. And they're pretty skeptical of that

247
00:18:47,759 --> 00:18:52,160
for about forty minutes. But then
when they would ask me questions, like

248
00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:56,759
I always knew the answer to the
question in a way that you would only

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00:18:56,799 --> 00:19:00,240
know if you did it for the
reasons that I did it, right,

250
00:19:00,319 --> 00:19:03,799
Like, you know, like they
would ask me about this about the size

251
00:19:03,839 --> 00:19:07,119
of my bouchers and I would explain
it, and they would ask me about

252
00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:08,079
my taxes, and I would explain
it, and I said, I have

253
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,079
boxes of every ticket I ever bought, Like you want to see my tax

254
00:19:11,079 --> 00:19:15,920
return. You know, I paid
a lot of tax on money that no

255
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,880
one knew existed, and this is
how I did it, and this is

256
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,880
why. And I'm a finance guy, right, and so like I understand

257
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:27,839
that, and well and so basically
about an hour into it, I kind

258
00:19:27,839 --> 00:19:33,359
of got the sense that they were
like, he's probably not associating with people

259
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:37,440
that would be doing a simple crime, possibly, right, like right,

260
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:42,839
yeah, And then I think they
kind of softened up, and then that

261
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:48,680
was it. Now I wanted to
ask you about you. So every week

262
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:53,960
you've got like a billion tickets and
now you have to sort through them to

263
00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:59,160
find the winners. How do you
How do you do that? Uh?

264
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:03,240
Well, I mean well, I
mean you can go to the store and

265
00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:07,599
you can scan them, and it
takes a very long time. And some

266
00:20:07,759 --> 00:20:14,079
tickets are worth a lot more than
others. So you could kind of sport

267
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:18,359
and get a sense of which tickets
would be more valuable due to some trackers

268
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:22,039
that I probably don't want to discuss
and then you could figure it out,

269
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:26,680
so that would help with the turn. Right. It's not like I had

270
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:33,640
just to check every single ticket every
week, but I needed to check as

271
00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:37,240
many as I could. But you
know, there is kind of a cap

272
00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:42,000
onto the amount of tickets that I
could buy. But I would say in

273
00:20:42,039 --> 00:20:47,519
a given week, between my girlfriend
and I, I mean we were probably

274
00:20:47,559 --> 00:20:55,440
working seventeen eighteen hour days only checking
tickets or buying tickets. Oh my god.

275
00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:00,200
Well but I was worth it.
Well yeah, I mean I mean

276
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,680
I think it was worth it,
although I mean I feel like if she

277
00:21:03,799 --> 00:21:06,440
was here, she probably say it
was worth it. But I don't want

278
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:11,000
to do it again. Yeah.
Yeah, the relationship survived the end of

279
00:21:11,039 --> 00:21:17,119
the promotion. Uh, it did
survive the end of the promotion. Yes,

280
00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:21,640
And I think that her and her
family that they kind of also like

281
00:21:21,759 --> 00:21:23,519
understood it, like right, because
I had to kind of explain it to

282
00:21:23,559 --> 00:21:27,599
people like this is what we're doing
and this is gonna sound weird, but

283
00:21:29,279 --> 00:21:33,720
you just have to trust me,
this is gonna be fine. Because I

284
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,640
think that the biggest fear that her
family had was that, like was that

285
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:42,039
like she was gonna get robbed because
we're in the same stores all the time,

286
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:47,000
right, with lots of money and
lost the tickets. I think that's

287
00:21:47,039 --> 00:21:51,160
a real concern. Yeah, yeah, right. Or if I'm going to

288
00:21:51,279 --> 00:21:55,640
the store then to catch the tickets, that's also a concern because you know,

289
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:59,039
I finally found a store that had
a fair amount of cats they could

290
00:21:59,039 --> 00:22:00,880
give me every day, But then
I'm there every day, and so every

291
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:04,319
day I'm walking through the parking lot, you know, and like starting to

292
00:22:04,319 --> 00:22:08,440
worry, Now, how long ago
was that? I mean, that was

293
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:12,920
a couple of years ago for sure, So I think it's been it's been

294
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:18,559
three years since I had the federal
agents at my house, and that was

295
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:23,160
like a year or two after the
promotion. So when that finally ended,

296
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:29,640
you suddenly had time on your hands
again, which you didn't dittorm You were

297
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:36,000
doing seventeen hour with Dickens. So
where did you go from there? Well,

298
00:22:36,079 --> 00:22:38,599
so from there, I was fortunate
enough to be in a state that

299
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,240
had a sports betting was legal,
and that that was in kind of the

300
00:22:42,279 --> 00:22:48,240
golden age of sports betting, where
there were high customer acquisition costs. They

301
00:22:48,279 --> 00:22:52,400
weren't really caring, they just wanted
market share. They wanted to get people

302
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:57,720
involved in the app, and so
you know that is also an industry where

303
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,960
a small a percentage of the betters
make up a lot of a handle.

304
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,839
And so I then I just used
the bankroll that I had from that play

305
00:23:07,039 --> 00:23:12,799
to send wires and I would send
wires to sports books constantly, and I

306
00:23:12,799 --> 00:23:17,559
would get ten thousand on one hundred
thousand or fifteen thousand on a hundred.

307
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,960
It's over and over and over again, and that they would like and they

308
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:26,640
would take big bets. So it
was not hard to lose a hundred somewhere

309
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,519
and then be able to send them
another wire for one hundred. I mean,

310
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,599
I can see I'm fairly competent.
I can talk about that now because

311
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:37,160
those days I think are long gone. I mean I think there's within the

312
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:41,519
last couple of months, I feel
like the major operators have gotten a lot

313
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,680
sharper and a lot tighter. Back
in the day when they just wanted some

314
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:52,160
they basically wanted they basically wanted to
handle. I think that they wanted sports

315
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:56,920
to look unprofitable because that would open
the door to a casino, and if

316
00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,920
they had really big handle, I
think they could sell it to other seats,

317
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:02,880
you know, saying like, look
at the scandal that you met.

318
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:07,079
But they but but the reality is, I mean they were giving away,

319
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,160
you know, free bets and stuff
that were just insane. And they were

320
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:17,279
giving away these depositent matches, especially
at the high end that I mean,

321
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,960
I don't think that stuff will ever
happen again. But fortunately I had a

322
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:25,599
bank roll to be able to take
advantage of it. Wow, that's that's

323
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:30,000
amazing. I didn't realize how big
it had got, I mean, how

324
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:36,720
much they were actually giving away and
having in that side, yeah, or

325
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:41,000
like sometimes they would be stackable,
like I got one. It was that.

326
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,640
I think it was bet uh.
I think it was beat two hundred

327
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,720
and fifty thousand in a weekend and
get a fifty thousand dollars free bet.

328
00:24:48,559 --> 00:24:52,119
Okay, fine, but if I
send you a wire for two hundred and

329
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,599
fifty, you're gonna give me a
fifty thousand dollars free bet anyway, or

330
00:24:56,279 --> 00:25:00,480
not a fifty thousand dollars free bets
Like at Caesars, I was getting ten

331
00:25:00,559 --> 00:25:03,799
percent freebats on any wire type.
Right, So if I send you like

332
00:25:04,079 --> 00:25:11,640
two fifty, I'm gonna get twenty
five, you know, And can huh

333
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,240
wait, you're you're getting twenty five
on the two fifty, and then you're

334
00:25:15,279 --> 00:25:18,559
also getting a fifty thousand dollars free
bits on top of it, right,

335
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:25,279
correct. But what I would do
is I would send them a hundred because

336
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,720
I felt like I could blow up
one hundred faster than I could blow up

337
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:33,079
the two fifty, right, which
then I could re up it, right,

338
00:25:33,319 --> 00:25:34,920
because if I can blow it up
more often, I'll get ten more

339
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,240
often, then get you know,
twenty five months and then have to wait

340
00:25:38,319 --> 00:25:42,559
more months to blow it up.
Wow. No, it was insane.

341
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:47,079
I mean I think those first like
that first year, this first couple of

342
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,839
months, we're insane. And I
mean I don't mind talking about it now

343
00:25:49,839 --> 00:25:55,119
because I really think you would be
hard pressed to get this kind of deal.

344
00:25:55,279 --> 00:25:57,440
And if you can, then great, you know, you work your

345
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,920
host. But but I mean I
think there was a period of time when

346
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:06,799
those offers were very very good.
Yeah, you don't have sounds like a

347
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:11,720
very don't have to be a very
good sports better too to win when you

348
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,039
get those kind of rebase. No, And I mean that was a situation

349
00:26:15,079 --> 00:26:19,759
where like I would always head,
which I know people will probably like argue

350
00:26:19,799 --> 00:26:25,400
about till the end of time.
But in my situation there, because I

351
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,920
was sending big wires, like I
still am a little tight on cash.

352
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,480
If I'm doing this at multiple sports
books, right and so, and so

353
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:40,559
the ev of preserving my bankroll grow
because I'm getting you know, five or

354
00:26:40,559 --> 00:26:45,000
ten percent on that every week is
more valuable than taking those free bats that

355
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,920
plus four hundred or seven hundred and
then going over ten and not having money

356
00:26:49,079 --> 00:26:55,200
to send you know some future.
Well yeah, yeah, I mean,

357
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:59,000
yeah, you had a big bankroll, but probably not big enough to take

358
00:26:59,039 --> 00:27:03,039
the kind of swing that you would
take if you're you know, betting at

359
00:27:03,079 --> 00:27:07,319
seven to one. I mean you
can you can dig a very very large

360
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:12,200
hole with that, you know,
at those sizes. Yeah, you're absolutely

361
00:27:12,279 --> 00:27:17,759
right. And so the value of
reinvesting the free beat, if I headed

362
00:27:17,839 --> 00:27:21,480
it, is worth way more than
the added value of taking on edge,

363
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:23,640
right, So I would always say
yeah, yeah, then in turn,

364
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,400
what I would get then I would
have where action from where else two,

365
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,440
which also looks good, Right,
But I can also extract value like that,

366
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:37,240
Sure, yeah, we're going to
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385
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with mister Dappy. Okay, so what

399
00:30:10,319 --> 00:30:14,880
are you doing nowadays? Still betting
sports or what's happening? Yeah, I

400
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,359
mean touched uff has gotten very,
very tight, so I think there's still

401
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:22,279
some tiny little edges. But I
think, like I said, I think

402
00:30:22,039 --> 00:30:26,880
good days for me at least of
sending wires and getting big bonuses and getting

403
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:33,799
offers constantly, I think are pretty
much over. Teasers just cut my seven

404
00:30:33,839 --> 00:30:37,400
Stars sat it, which I didn't
think they would do because I earned it,

405
00:30:37,559 --> 00:30:41,400
it was verified, and then they
waited a couple of weeks and they

406
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:48,359
said, due to an internal business
choice, you're not seven Stars anymore,

407
00:30:48,599 --> 00:30:52,680
which I was annoyed by because I
booked my seven Stars retreat and I paid

408
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,839
for the airfare, and then they
refused to give me the credit on the

409
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,599
airfare for the trip that I had
booked, which that's all kind of grows.

410
00:31:00,839 --> 00:31:04,960
Oh wow, yeah, that sucks. Yeah. Yeah, I mean

411
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:10,720
I'm doing some like some of the
sports stuff and a little bit of the

412
00:31:10,759 --> 00:31:15,480
I Catino stuff and then trying to
figure out what my next step are.

413
00:31:15,559 --> 00:31:21,519
I still have a consulting job in
finance. I'm a CFA charter holder,

414
00:31:21,599 --> 00:31:23,279
so you know, I can get
a finance job if I need it.

415
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,440
And then just in my spare time, I'm big into a credit card point

416
00:31:26,519 --> 00:31:32,440
to chase too. So still grinding
the partist account. Oh yeah, you

417
00:31:32,519 --> 00:31:36,799
mentioned that you you didn't know anything
about that that was something you learned from

418
00:31:36,839 --> 00:31:40,839
gambling with aniche. Sure. I
mean that started on an episode you guys

419
00:31:40,839 --> 00:31:44,839
had Jimmy Jazz on and I was
like, oh, it seems like something

420
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,319
that could be good for me,
you know, because I was looking to

421
00:31:48,319 --> 00:31:52,119
get a better return on my span
and it wasn't an area that I was

422
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:56,839
really familiar with. I also thought
that if I was going to try to

423
00:31:57,279 --> 00:32:01,319
in the network with other ap ease, that might be something that if I

424
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,680
build up a lot of knowledge about
that could be valuable, right, And

425
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:07,880
so I was like, Okay,
well, if I can get really good

426
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:12,680
at this, then perhaps I can
add value that might you know, make

427
00:32:12,759 --> 00:32:15,240
people realize that I'm sharp even though
I don't have gambling information at the time,

428
00:32:15,359 --> 00:32:20,240
you know, because I think the
things are similar and so since yeah,

429
00:32:20,279 --> 00:32:22,839
and so since then, I think
I've done fairly well. But I'm

430
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,440
only a Chase guy, and I
only use points for travel, but I

431
00:32:25,519 --> 00:32:31,240
average between twelve and thirteen percent back
on like every dollar charts every year,

432
00:32:31,759 --> 00:32:35,599
and that's been going on. How
do you get that high? How do

433
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:42,960
you get so? Right? So
again, I mean I'm gonna redeem these

434
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,880
for travel, So this is not
cash back, right, but but I'm

435
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:51,480
redeeming for coach right right. Basically
at Chase, the thing that really drives

436
00:32:51,519 --> 00:32:57,000
it is the chief Freedom cards are
now the Chase Freedom Flex Cards. They're

437
00:32:57,039 --> 00:33:00,880
the cards that have five percent cash
back act of a fifteen hundred macs right

438
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:06,680
for every quarter, okay, and
so that might be at a grocery store,

439
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,119
that could be at a gas station, okay. And if if you

440
00:33:10,279 --> 00:33:15,720
have a Freedom Card and you have
a premium Chase card, then you get

441
00:33:15,839 --> 00:33:20,880
a minimum of one point five or
sent back. I'm sorry, well at

442
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,160
one point five times the amount that
you earned on the Freedom if you are

443
00:33:24,279 --> 00:33:30,359
using it for travel. So so
if I have a Sapphire reserved and I

444
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:35,720
have a Chase Freedom Card, my
five percent on Freedom is worth at least

445
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:40,519
seven and a half percent. Right, So yeah, the thing is is

446
00:33:40,559 --> 00:33:45,480
that you have to get other Freedom
cards. So you can't apply for a

447
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:51,359
card that you have, but you
can apply for another Chase card that's not

448
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:58,960
branded, so like Freedom on Freedom
Unlimited for example, and then you can

449
00:33:59,039 --> 00:34:04,680
wait a year and product change into
a second Freedom card and now you have

450
00:34:04,839 --> 00:34:08,800
three thousand dollars a quarter at five
percent. Well, I have four Chase

451
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:14,199
Freedom cards now because I've done this
ever many years, so I have six

452
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:20,159
thousand dollars a quarter at five percent. At five percent is seven and a

453
00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:23,480
half a sapphire reserve. I have
companion path. So now you're looking at

454
00:34:23,519 --> 00:34:30,360
about sixteen percent based on how I
value Southwest wide, so you know,

455
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:38,280
so suddenly I have I I have
twenty four thousand a year at sixteen percent

456
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:44,920
if I travel with a companion and
right, So that stuff adds up fairly

457
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:49,480
easily. And it's always about how
you get things coded. So if you

458
00:34:49,519 --> 00:34:53,000
live in an area with a grocery
store that owns a gas station and they

459
00:34:53,039 --> 00:34:59,440
own a grocery store, if it's
five percent at gas stacion by a grocery

460
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:04,039
store gift card at that gas station, it'll be coded as five percent and

461
00:35:04,079 --> 00:35:09,679
then spend it on your groceries and
a gift the gas station has a gift

462
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:15,440
card for the grocery store. Yes, if it's a situation like a Kroger,

463
00:35:15,679 --> 00:35:19,519
a safe Way, a Giant Eagle, Albertsons, or whatever. They

464
00:35:19,599 --> 00:35:25,519
often sell their own gift cards at
the gas stasion and those can be used

465
00:35:25,559 --> 00:35:30,440
anywhere. So by buying it at
the gas stasition, I can get it

466
00:35:30,519 --> 00:35:34,760
coded as five percent, which,
like I said, is effectively like sixteen

467
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,760
for travel, and then I can
use that on my spend of the grocery

468
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:45,519
stores or some stores will permit you
to buy other other gift cards with their

469
00:35:45,559 --> 00:35:49,639
own gift card, which means at
the end of the quarter that I can

470
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,199
just load up and use it as
a store of value until I need to

471
00:35:52,199 --> 00:35:55,679
buy a gift card for loads or
home depot or something. So when you

472
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,559
buy at the gas station, because
that's the one I was thinking, how

473
00:35:59,559 --> 00:36:01,960
are you going to spend six thousand
at the gas station? When you buy

474
00:36:02,199 --> 00:36:06,960
gift cards at the gas station?
Are you buying like these and gift cards

475
00:36:07,159 --> 00:36:10,719
or what? What do they have? No? So say it is like

476
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:16,000
a Safeway, right if I buy
a gift card at the Safeway gas station.

477
00:36:16,119 --> 00:36:20,519
I can use that at the Safeway
grocery store. Yeah, there's no

478
00:36:20,599 --> 00:36:23,760
premium for the gift card. You're
you're getting full value of it. Correct,

479
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:30,000
There's no premium for the cards.
You're getting full face value. And

480
00:36:30,079 --> 00:36:34,239
so then I can just use it
to store the value there. Because if

481
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,199
I'm able to convert a Kroger,
a Safeway, or a Giant Eagle gift

482
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:42,079
card into any of the other retail
gift cards that they sell, then I'll

483
00:36:42,079 --> 00:36:44,800
just wait till I need them and
they have a special on gas and I'll

484
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,760
redeem them. Obviously, it is
a function of like interest rates, right,

485
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:52,679
because like I have a couple million
miles now, So if I'm not

486
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:58,679
spending miles for years and I can
get four percent, well, you know,

487
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,840
should I really be floating those gift
cards. I'm not sure, But

488
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,760
if I don't. But if I
don't have a lot of miles, it's

489
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:13,639
a great return to get, you
know, twelve or sixteen percent on that

490
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:20,199
money in a year by floating what
you need to maximize five percent there for

491
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,960
the quarter. Why are you choosing
only to spend the money on travel?

492
00:37:24,119 --> 00:37:30,159
Are the benefits on travel it seems
like you could monetize these as you want

493
00:37:30,199 --> 00:37:32,559
to. Yeah, I mean I
could, and there are promotions where I

494
00:37:32,559 --> 00:37:37,480
could get one and a quarter cast
back against my bill. But because I

495
00:37:37,559 --> 00:37:42,679
have status on Southwest, I have
if I would get one free flights,

496
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:49,079
so it's hard to argue. And
if I only travel with my partner with

497
00:37:49,199 --> 00:37:53,079
friends, it's hard to right.
Like, it's hard to take the cash

498
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:57,800
at a percent and a half when
I could be getting, you know,

499
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:01,480
a lot more than that if I
would even for travel. I can say

500
00:38:01,679 --> 00:38:07,559
the one thing I would not do
is I would not turn a bunch of

501
00:38:07,639 --> 00:38:12,840
visa gift cards or do anything like
that if you are an advantage player,

502
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,920
because that looks bad. I think, I think that looks like you're I'm

503
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:22,719
laundering money. I would not turn
a lot if I was also making large

504
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:25,039
cash rants actions and doing other things
like that, because I've had the sees

505
00:38:25,079 --> 00:38:30,480
with banks and I think that would
just add a whole amount of complications that's

506
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:34,199
not needed. So well, the
reason it looks like you're turning cash is

507
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:39,920
because you are. Now, let's
let's say subjects a little bit. You're

508
00:38:40,039 --> 00:38:45,519
a pinball player. You started playing
pinball, how important was that in your

509
00:38:45,559 --> 00:38:49,199
life? Sure, that was really
important to me. As a kid,

510
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,000
I played with my dad a lot, and that was one of the things

511
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,880
that we always did together, and
that was one of my first like that

512
00:38:55,000 --> 00:39:01,639
was one of the first like introductions
to tile you shopping lines and progressives.

513
00:39:01,639 --> 00:39:07,679
Ever, Basically, there's a pinball
machine called Cyclone, and as cyclone,

514
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:13,000
there's a progressive jackpot that can be
won, and if you wanted, then

515
00:39:13,159 --> 00:39:15,719
you would probably have the high score
of the day. And if you had

516
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:19,880
the high score of the day,
then you got more free games. And

517
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,719
so as a kid, when we
would be on vacation, there'd be all

518
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:28,199
these arcades and they would all have
Cyclone, and he would send me around

519
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:34,960
to find the Cyclone pinball that had
the highest progressive jackpots, because that would

520
00:39:35,039 --> 00:39:38,440
mean if we hit it, our
expected value in terms of free games would

521
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:43,719
be the highest. In our cat
per game what would be the cheapest.

522
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,000
And so that was one of my
very early childhood like aps. I felt

523
00:39:47,039 --> 00:39:50,639
like I had a job that I
would go around and check all the progressive

524
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:55,320
meters on Cyclone. Well, listen, this has been great, but we

525
00:39:55,360 --> 00:40:00,440
are getting to the end of our
show and we want to say, mister

526
00:40:00,559 --> 00:40:06,880
DOPPI for being here and if people
can find you on Twitter as mister Doppy.

527
00:40:07,079 --> 00:40:09,800
Right, yeah, yeah, yep, that's correct. I've been on

528
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:15,360
there for a little while. It's
yeah, it's just at mister Duffy,

529
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:19,480
that's right up, filling to it
in that show notes. Okay, all

530
00:40:19,559 --> 00:40:23,800
right, sounds okay. So at
the end of our show we have recommended

531
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:28,320
and Bob, you don't have one
this week? Is that right? Is

532
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,920
correct? Okay, but mister Duppy, how about you you have a recommended

533
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:36,840
for us this week? Yeah?
Sure. I would say to people that

534
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,760
are either in Vegas or traveling in
Las Vegas, I would highly recommend going

535
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:44,719
to the Pinball Hall of Fame.
It's not that far from the strip.

536
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:50,280
They have like two or three hundred
pinball machines from the fifties to probably the

537
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,920
early two thousands, and they're all
in great shape. I think it's structured

538
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:58,920
as a nonprofit and it's just a
really great way to go h spend an

539
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,679
afternoon in Vegas, need something to
do. And they also have Pyclone there,

540
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:06,880
right, So if you want to
check out a progressive leader on a

541
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,239
pinball machine, it's there. It's
a perfect working order. He is your

542
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:14,639
name at the top of the high
score list, No, because I think

543
00:41:14,639 --> 00:41:17,960
they're actually very good pinball players there. So I don't think I've ever taken

544
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:22,000
the top score there. But someday
I can do it. Some day,

545
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:27,800
I can hope. Yeah, I
just wonder what would it be worth if

546
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:31,559
you did me you got the progressive
with the cyclone ininball Hall of Fame.

547
00:41:32,039 --> 00:41:37,559
I mean, I think it would
probably pay three free games, though you

548
00:41:37,639 --> 00:41:42,840
might make an extra fifty cents averse
the final one that wasn't smacked out,

549
00:41:43,679 --> 00:41:46,880
But I mean fifty cents in like
fifty cents in ev in nineteen eighty seven,

550
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:51,760
right, I mean that was big
money to me. All right.

551
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:58,039
My recommended this week is the last
season of the show Succession, which is

552
00:41:58,079 --> 00:42:02,960
on HBO. If you haven't watched
it and you have access to HBO that

553
00:42:04,119 --> 00:42:08,280
gives you access to HBO Max and
I would highly recommend that show. And

554
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:13,880
this is the final season and it's
just started a few weeks ago, so

555
00:42:14,159 --> 00:42:17,159
yeah, check it out. Succession. Very good show. Okay. We

556
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:23,039
want to thank mister Dappy for being
here and for working all these years on

557
00:42:23,079 --> 00:42:30,039
our show notes, and thank you
Bob and do I get to say this

558
00:42:30,039 --> 00:42:34,559
this week? Go out and hit
Los roal flushes everybody. Good day,