WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.960 --> 00:00:10.439 Big Food and be on with Cliff and Bobo. These guys are your favorites. 2 00:00:10.839 --> 00:00:21.399 So like Shay, subscribe and read it time station and Today listening watching 3 00:00:23.160 --> 00:00:30.359 always keep it squatching and now your hosts, Cliff Berkman and James Bubbo Fey. 4 00:00:31.239 --> 00:00:34.000 Hey, Bobbo. What's happening man, Well, not much, just 5 00:00:34.200 --> 00:00:38.079 doing the same old hustle, same old hustle. Yeah, well, welcome 6 00:00:38.119 --> 00:00:40.560 back to your side hustle, big Fit and beyond. That's gonna be a 7 00:00:40.759 --> 00:00:42.960 good day of the day. We've got a good guest. But before we 8 00:00:42.960 --> 00:00:46.240 get into that, anything fun exciting you want to share with anybody? Nope, 9 00:00:46.719 --> 00:00:50.159 nope, none of their business. I don't got anything fun or exciting, 10 00:00:50.679 --> 00:00:52.600 Okay, and it's none of their business. I don't know what. 11 00:00:52.640 --> 00:00:56.039 I think. It's funny thing about doing hosting a podcast. It always feels 12 00:00:56.039 --> 00:00:59.359 like people are listening to you. Yeah, well, I'm pretty sure that 13 00:00:59.399 --> 00:01:03.280 this is gonna this is gonna air before the Blazer game. That's still happening. 14 00:01:03.040 --> 00:01:07.480 The Blazers have invited the North American Bigfoot Center to come participate in a 15 00:01:07.480 --> 00:01:11.200 big Foot Night. Some cool stuff is going to be happening. I found 16 00:01:11.239 --> 00:01:12.040 that a little bit more about it. I'm not going to say anything, 17 00:01:12.040 --> 00:01:17.000 but some cool things are happening at the Blazer game. Besides, if we're 18 00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:21.599 going to be a present, I edited together a one minute or fifty something 19 00:01:21.719 --> 00:01:26.319 second commercial for the NABC that they're going to show in the JumboTron. I 20 00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:30.120 think I mentioned that somebody came to the other day to film a bunch of 21 00:01:30.159 --> 00:01:33.680 b role in the museum. They're going to piece together some sort of little 22 00:01:33.719 --> 00:01:37.319 comedy bit or something like that with a local comedian. I don't know if 23 00:01:37.319 --> 00:01:38.599 he's going to be there or not, but what was his name, Lee 24 00:01:38.680 --> 00:01:42.319 something. I have to look it up, but yeah, some local comedian 25 00:01:42.439 --> 00:01:45.599 is doing a little bit where he's looking for a sasquatch or something like that. 26 00:01:46.040 --> 00:01:49.959 And of course we're getting a ten by ten booth sort of thing, 27 00:01:49.400 --> 00:01:52.719 you know, like like one of those like like when we speak at a 28 00:01:52.760 --> 00:01:56.359 conference, we get a little booth through whatever. Yeah, luxury box, 29 00:01:56.400 --> 00:01:59.400 Sure, that's a really nice way to put it in. So we're gonna 30 00:01:59.439 --> 00:02:01.560 get one of those at the game. We're not gonna sell anything note the 31 00:02:01.599 --> 00:02:07.200 game, although we have this amazing backdrop. It's pretty awesome. It's it's 32 00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:10.879 eight feet by eight feet and it's just a picture of Murphy's face, you 33 00:02:10.919 --> 00:02:15.080 know, with the says North American big Foot Center on top. And it's 34 00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:17.199 pretty It's pretty cool, man. I's gonna draw a lot of eyes over. 35 00:02:17.360 --> 00:02:21.199 So I bought a bunch of flyers to give away. So that's gonna 36 00:02:21.199 --> 00:02:23.479 be the big thing in our in my near future. But it's March fourteenth. 37 00:02:23.479 --> 00:02:27.240 If anybody wants to come down to the game, I think where the 38 00:02:27.240 --> 00:02:30.520 Trailblazers are playing the Knicks. Apparently that's the name of another basketball team. 39 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:34.319 I'm not really a sport guy, but I do know the Trailblazers have even 40 00:02:34.319 --> 00:02:37.080 been to a few games. So that's going to be on the fourteenth of 41 00:02:37.199 --> 00:02:39.520 March at the Modus Center here in Portland, Oregon. So if anybody wants 42 00:02:39.560 --> 00:02:43.560 to come down and say hi, please do There's got to be some you 43 00:02:43.560 --> 00:02:46.000 know, season ticket holders or something in our audience. I would think it's 44 00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:50.800 fans, Yeah, fans. Everybody loves the Trailblazers, unless you're on a 45 00:02:50.800 --> 00:02:53.960 team that is playing the Trailblazers, you know. I mean even I like 46 00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:57.840 the Trailblazers, you know, And I'm not a sports guy. They still 47 00:02:57.879 --> 00:03:00.560 love me when they're not on the same team. Yeah. Have you ever 48 00:03:00.800 --> 00:03:05.759 been to a Trailblazer game, Bobs? Yeah, it's it's nuts, right, 49 00:03:05.879 --> 00:03:07.759 And of course you probably have gone to a lot of sport events that 50 00:03:07.800 --> 00:03:12.479 I have not. But I found it overwhelming when I was at a basketball 51 00:03:12.520 --> 00:03:15.240 game, and I saw the Clippers too, because my brother has a seal 52 00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:17.840 season tickets for the Clippers, so I saw one of their games too, 53 00:03:19.080 --> 00:03:22.919 and it's just so much stimulus if I really find it overwhelming. After about 54 00:03:23.159 --> 00:03:24.599 half, you know, is it a halftime or is it half point? 55 00:03:24.680 --> 00:03:27.719 What do you call the thing in the middleman? What do you call that 56 00:03:27.800 --> 00:03:30.800 halftime? Is it halftime? Okay, so I went on that one gay 57 00:03:30.919 --> 00:03:34.039 sports. So anyway, Yeah, that's that's the big thing in my future. 58 00:03:34.080 --> 00:03:35.759 And waiting for all the snow to go to waste so I can go 59 00:03:35.800 --> 00:03:38.120 to the mountains again. Right, Well, we gotta give them the day. 60 00:03:38.159 --> 00:03:42.800 Cliff tell us about it. Well, she I met her when she 61 00:03:42.919 --> 00:03:47.479 was just a young college girl about nineteen or twenty, and yeah, she's 62 00:03:47.719 --> 00:03:53.960 gone on to some academic success and she actually her course of study through university 63 00:03:54.199 --> 00:04:00.560 was kind of guided by the Sasquatch phenomena, and she's she's all kinds of 64 00:04:00.599 --> 00:04:02.439 good information. She's been squashing for twenty years. I met her on the 65 00:04:03.439 --> 00:04:06.800 first or second expedition, the very first one in Washington, think it was 66 00:04:06.800 --> 00:04:11.240 the second one ever. I met her up there and been friends with her 67 00:04:11.240 --> 00:04:14.599 ever since. So welcome to Tracy. Hi Tracy, Welcome to Big Fan 68 00:04:14.680 --> 00:04:17.040 and beyond. Yeah, thanks for having me, guys. Yea and Tracy. 69 00:04:17.120 --> 00:04:19.879 I've met you, right, I mean, I happen in my head 70 00:04:19.879 --> 00:04:24.120 that I've met you. I just can't remember where that would be. We've 71 00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:30.199 met a few times at the gravel Pit in Washington, the site of the 72 00:04:30.199 --> 00:04:33.720 first Washington expedition. Okay, very good. Again. I know I've earned 73 00:04:33.759 --> 00:04:36.319 across to you, but god, I mean, my memory is just failing 74 00:04:36.360 --> 00:04:40.519 as I grow older. Of course, there's actually a joke that we have 75 00:04:40.639 --> 00:04:44.639 in my family because my mom is a huge fan of both of yours, 76 00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:48.720 and she was so excited to meet you both. And when she introduced herself 77 00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:51.879 to you and she said I'm Tracy's mom, and you said Tracy, who, 78 00:04:54.319 --> 00:04:58.199 Well, I do that for everybody, she just started laughing, and 79 00:04:58.240 --> 00:05:00.360 I was like, yeah, mom, I'm important. In the big footing 80 00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:05.279 world. Yes, you are. You're one of the few like you have 81 00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:12.439 a PhD. Right, I have a master's and what primate behavior? Okay, 82 00:05:12.519 --> 00:05:15.639 great, I've got a lot of questions for you. I've got a 83 00:05:15.639 --> 00:05:18.560 lot of questions. So um And of course, well Bobo said that part 84 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:21.199 of it is because the Sasquatch is that yours. Is that your story as 85 00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:24.720 well, and you're stick into it? Or is there some other avenue there's 86 00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:28.160 a murdered pathway that you took to get there. Well, I was studying 87 00:05:29.079 --> 00:05:36.000 cultural anthropology and social sciences, and after going on a big footing expedition, 88 00:05:36.040 --> 00:05:42.560 I thought it would be fun to take some biological anthropology and I was just 89 00:05:42.639 --> 00:05:46.560 really inspired after after the expeditions and after that class, and I decided to 90 00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:51.199 focus on that for my master's degree. Fantastic any regrets so far. No, 91 00:05:51.879 --> 00:05:57.720 it is really hard to be gainfully employed as a primatologist. So you 92 00:05:57.800 --> 00:06:01.879 have to you unless you really want to work at a zoo or if you're 93 00:06:01.920 --> 00:06:09.720 willing to do field research in you know, a foreign country. But it's 94 00:06:09.759 --> 00:06:13.319 that the pay is really low and it's it's a really difficult job. If 95 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:16.639 you also have a family, and so I you know, I'm peripherally aware 96 00:06:16.639 --> 00:06:21.680 of what's going on in primatology, but I'm employed elsewhere. Did you actually 97 00:06:21.720 --> 00:06:26.480 work at a zoo and then also do field work in other countries, which 98 00:06:26.519 --> 00:06:28.240 is how you know you don't really want to do that for a living. 99 00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:30.920 No, I know that I don't want to do it for a living because 100 00:06:31.639 --> 00:06:36.120 you don't get paid enough, and it's it's pretty difficult work. I worked 101 00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:41.839 at a chimpanzee sanctuary, and I did field work with baboons in Africa. 102 00:06:42.319 --> 00:06:46.720 I've worked with spider monkeys at a spider monkeys sanctuary. So I know that 103 00:06:46.759 --> 00:06:49.680 it's work that I enjoy, but the jobs are few and far between, 104 00:06:50.399 --> 00:06:55.360 and you know, it's pretty close to minimum wage for the most part. 105 00:06:56.199 --> 00:07:00.439 You work on some famous chimpanzees, right, I did. I worked with 106 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:05.439 the chimpanzees who knew the signs of American sign language. How's that, Cliff, 107 00:07:05.800 --> 00:07:10.040 Well, that's that's pretty pretty amazing. Um. Now, I know 108 00:07:10.079 --> 00:07:14.639 there's some sort of debate amongst primatologists, or maybe maybe less of about primatologist 109 00:07:14.639 --> 00:07:18.920 from primatologists and just zoologists in general, about whether any ape you know, 110 00:07:18.959 --> 00:07:23.680 whether it's these chimpanzees you're mentioning, or cocod the gorilla, or any of 111 00:07:23.720 --> 00:07:30.040 these things, whether they're just mimicking or if they're actually communicating, actually communicating 112 00:07:30.199 --> 00:07:36.240 unique symbolic thought. And having worked with these actual animals that are doing that, 113 00:07:36.319 --> 00:07:40.600 what does your take on that well? As a fellow ape. I'll 114 00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:46.480 just use one example of a story. So I was early in my training 115 00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:54.199 and one of the chimpanzees kept on signing what I thought she was signing smell, 116 00:07:54.360 --> 00:07:58.439 And I just had a pedicure done, and so I thought she wanted 117 00:07:58.480 --> 00:08:03.160 to smell my feet because I had lotion and bright blue tonail polish on. 118 00:08:03.279 --> 00:08:07.240 And I kept on asking her why, and she kept on signing what I 119 00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:11.079 thought was smell, And so I stood on one foot and then I fanned 120 00:08:11.920 --> 00:08:15.560 the odor of my other foot toward her. I mean, looking like some 121 00:08:15.639 --> 00:08:20.079 weird blue toe nailed flamingo. I think of it as yoga, the look 122 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:26.319 that she gave me. And then she very carefully signed mask. So she'd 123 00:08:26.360 --> 00:08:30.240 just been signing in a hurry, so it looked like smell, but it 124 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:35.480 was actually mask. And then she pointed behind me, and I saw there 125 00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:37.279 was a mask behind me, So I slid it under the caging, and 126 00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:43.720 she just kind of shook her head and walked away, muttering to herself, 127 00:08:43.840 --> 00:08:48.879 silly ape. Yeah. We also we had nicknames for each other. One 128 00:08:48.879 --> 00:08:54.200 of the chimpanzees. My nickname for him was good Friend. And I'd been 129 00:08:54.360 --> 00:08:56.879 gone for a couple of weeks, and when I came back, the person 130 00:08:56.919 --> 00:09:01.720 who was serving him dinner came out of the area where she was serving and 131 00:09:01.759 --> 00:09:05.799 she said, Okay, who here is called good friend because he keeps on 132 00:09:05.879 --> 00:09:11.360 asking for good Friend. And so looking at conversations like that, it's it's 133 00:09:11.399 --> 00:09:16.879 easy to say that it's just mimicry. It's not language the way some linguists 134 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:20.039 would classify it. But it's definitely language. But you also have to remember 135 00:09:20.159 --> 00:09:26.759 this is a non human so they're conforming to our concept of language. These 136 00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:33.080 are things that weren't necessarily important to them during their evolutionary histories. And so 137 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:39.240 the fact that they are able to communicate with themselves in their own language and 138 00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:46.919 using sign language, and they could also understand verbal verbal words. Some of 139 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:50.919 them, even if I spelled out the word cookie, they knew what I 140 00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:54.120 was spelling because they recognize some of the letters. Sure, yeah, I 141 00:09:54.120 --> 00:09:58.320 would argue that even my dog can do some of that stuff. I mean, 142 00:09:58.840 --> 00:10:01.360 obviously any ape would be heads and shoulders and more above. Of course, 143 00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:07.039 did you ever observe two chimpanzees signing and communicating on their own to each 144 00:10:07.080 --> 00:10:09.360 other? And what did they say? Like, what kind of stuff do 145 00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:13.759 chimps talk about when we're not listening? Absolutely well, they might comment on 146 00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:18.840 things that they saw. One of the most interesting things to me actually was 147 00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:22.960 if they would be looking at a book or a magazine and they would be 148 00:10:22.960 --> 00:10:28.080 signing about what they saw to themselves. They're talking to themselves, right, 149 00:10:28.840 --> 00:10:33.240 Okay, that's interesting because one of the things I often mentioned is about sasquatch 150 00:10:33.320 --> 00:10:37.399 behaviors and social structures in particular, is that they're probably moving around in groups 151 00:10:37.480 --> 00:10:41.799 even though they're only seen individually. And I base that. Part of the 152 00:10:41.840 --> 00:10:46.799 reason I base that is, or I believe that is because I don't think 153 00:10:46.840 --> 00:10:52.000 that they would be knocking or calling to themselves. It just doesn't make sense 154 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:54.320 to me. But you're saying that at least some apes do in fact sit 155 00:10:54.320 --> 00:11:00.600 around and sign to themselves. Well, it's it's kind of like a glimpse 156 00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:03.679 into their thought process, right, they're looking at it going, oh, 157 00:11:03.720 --> 00:11:09.360 hey, that's some flowers and there's some ice cream. And I think that 158 00:11:09.399 --> 00:11:13.960 we all do that to some extent. But it would make more sense to 159 00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:16.879 me that they were traveling in groups and that they were, you know, 160 00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:22.440 doing wood knocks and whoops to one another rather than just by themselves. Yeah. 161 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:24.679 And if they are by themselves in doing it, they're probably trying to 162 00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:30.320 locate other members of their group anyway. So yeah, different intention. Cool. 163 00:11:30.440 --> 00:11:31.279 Now, let me ask you this. I get a lot of heat 164 00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:35.559 for this because I am always kind of the voice on the Enoba disagrees. 165 00:11:35.559 --> 00:11:39.559 Of course, I very often say loudly and clearly that human beings are apes, 166 00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:43.919 you know, period. That is our families, our biological family. 167 00:11:43.159 --> 00:11:48.120 What is the current, because you know, words shift around, definitions shift 168 00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:52.200 around quite a bit. What is a good concise, perhaps or not even 169 00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:58.840 concise, a good definition for what apes are for our listeners? Is there 170 00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:03.240 a misunderstanding about what an ape is? Are you saying that people argue that 171 00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:07.039 humans aren't apes? Yeah, yeah, i'mentally most of these people say, 172 00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:11.600 we're not dumb apes, and so they have they have a huge misunderstanding what 173 00:12:11.639 --> 00:12:13.960 apes are. Anyway, But what is the technical definition of an ape? 174 00:12:13.960 --> 00:12:18.200 I know it has something to do with shoulders for brachiation, and and probably 175 00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:22.639 fingers or something like that, some sort of digits or something, and belonging 176 00:12:22.679 --> 00:12:26.279 to a certain clade perhaps, But do you know what a good functional definition 177 00:12:26.320 --> 00:12:30.720 for that would be. You know, I probably could have told you this 178 00:12:30.840 --> 00:12:35.000 in twenty eleven when I was still in school. But in terms of apes 179 00:12:35.159 --> 00:12:41.159 versus monkeys, so apes don't have a tail um. They're also typically highly 180 00:12:41.320 --> 00:12:46.639 encephalized. You know, their their brain to body ratio is pretty high. 181 00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:50.240 But when I hear people say, you know, we're not dumb apes, 182 00:12:50.279 --> 00:12:58.120 to me, it's just people that don't understand how basic science and evolution work. 183 00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:00.639 And that's okay. I mean, if you're coming from a place of 184 00:13:00.679 --> 00:13:03.600 ignorance, that's one thing. But if you're presented with the information and you 185 00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:07.919 still disagree, that's different. Have you read that book A Naked Ape back 186 00:13:07.960 --> 00:13:09.519 in the day, It was really popular in the seventies or something like that. 187 00:13:09.559 --> 00:13:11.879 Have you bring up back and taken a look at that. Yeah, 188 00:13:11.919 --> 00:13:15.600 I think I read it in two thousand and nine. Because we have we 189 00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:18.799 are are, we're ape, so we have that same behavior. Like almost 190 00:13:18.799 --> 00:13:22.840 everything that I see sasquatches do or chimpanzees, or we can find some sort 191 00:13:22.840 --> 00:13:26.240 of analog in our own behavior. I think tree breaking, you know, 192 00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:28.240 breaking like hitting a pillow, for example, it would be a good ethic 193 00:13:28.279 --> 00:13:31.519 analog for that. One of the coolest things that I ever saw, and 194 00:13:31.639 --> 00:13:37.840 this was on an expedition in New Mexico where Bobo was there too. There 195 00:13:37.840 --> 00:13:43.879 were all of these ant hills and they had some big holes in the side 196 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:46.200 of them, and we thought a lot's weird. And then we came to 197 00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:50.799 one that had some tiny sticks poked into the side of the ant hill, 198 00:13:50.799 --> 00:13:56.000 and it reminded me of when I was a little kid and I'd be running 199 00:13:56.000 --> 00:14:00.519 around with my brother and my cousins and we would be breaking off sticks and 200 00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:05.000 poking ant hills and just exploring and examining everything. And it was kind of 201 00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:09.360 neat to see that. And we never did figure out what it was, 202 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:11.879 but it was just out in the middle of nowhere, tiny little sticks poked 203 00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:16.480 into ant hills. I talked with some of those Apatchie others and they totally 204 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:20.440 were talking before I even mentioned that We're talking about how they seen them fishing 205 00:14:20.440 --> 00:14:24.879 like the chimpanzees putting the stick in the termite mount hill. And that was 206 00:14:24.919 --> 00:14:28.480 also what it reminded me of, you know, a combination of either kids 207 00:14:28.679 --> 00:14:35.000 playing in an ant in ant hill or you know a lot of chimpanzees in 208 00:14:35.080 --> 00:14:37.639 different cultural groups, they'll fish for termites, and they do it in different 209 00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:43.039 ways, but it's the same outcome that they get termites out. Have you 210 00:14:43.080 --> 00:14:46.600 seen a sasquatch yet? I have you? Have? You would like to 211 00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:48.879 tell us about that? I'd love to hear about it. It was two 212 00:14:48.919 --> 00:14:56.600 thousand and four and I was with three other women and we were walking down 213 00:14:56.720 --> 00:15:03.960 what we called Spooky Road, and it was my first real nightwalk like that, 214 00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:09.440 my first expedition, my first everything with big footing, and I was 215 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:13.919 a little bit spooked, and so I suggested that we should sing, because 216 00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:16.840 that makes me feel better. But I don't know the words to anything, 217 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:20.120 and none of us knew the words to the same things other than things like 218 00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:26.639 Christmas carols and Twinkle Twinkle Little Star, And so that's what we were singing 219 00:15:26.679 --> 00:15:31.240 while we were walking down Spooky Road. And three of us had our night 220 00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:37.279 vision trained ahead of us, and one of us, Christine, had her 221 00:15:37.480 --> 00:15:41.399 night vision to the back just so that we were completely covered, and we 222 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:50.240 started to hear these really complex whistles, and myself, being ignorant, I 223 00:15:50.279 --> 00:15:52.679 said, well, that's really weird that that bird is whistling like that at 224 00:15:52.759 --> 00:15:56.519 night. And two of the gals just kind of looked at me, like, 225 00:15:56.639 --> 00:15:58.559 why do you think that's a bird? Have you ever heard a bird 226 00:15:58.600 --> 00:16:02.159 do that at night? And I said no, And so we kept on 227 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:07.679 walking, and then we saw something peer from behind the back of a tree, 228 00:16:08.840 --> 00:16:12.200 and it was just the head and the shoulder, and it looked out 229 00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:18.080 at us, and it impacted me so profoundly that have you ever seen close 230 00:16:18.159 --> 00:16:22.279 encounters of the third kind? With the guy that kept on making the mountain 231 00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:26.279 out of the mashed potatoes and everything like that. I drew and I sketched 232 00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:30.320 and I painted what I saw so many times. But the episode was cut 233 00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:37.159 short because some of the guys from the expedition were worried because they haven't heard 234 00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:40.240 from us from a long time, so they were driving toward us on the 235 00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:45.840 road and spooked whatever or whoever it was. And how long did you get 236 00:16:45.879 --> 00:16:48.840 a chance to observe it? I'd have to check my journal because I wrote 237 00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:52.799 it down right after it happened. I know that memory is a tricky thing. 238 00:16:52.840 --> 00:16:56.720 Every time you remember something, you change the memory itself. But I 239 00:16:56.720 --> 00:16:59.840 think it was just for a few seconds. But I remember I got like 240 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:03.839 a double jimmy leg because I wasn't expecting to have something like that happened. 241 00:17:04.200 --> 00:17:12.200 And from what I remember, it was about seven feet up and we were 242 00:17:12.200 --> 00:17:15.799 all just stunned. And I'm glad that two other people saw it, because 243 00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:19.319 I thought, wait, did I really see something? I mean, what 244 00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:23.200 are the chances that the first time I go out on something like that that 245 00:17:23.319 --> 00:17:27.440 something happens. I think it's pretty good. I've actually because a beginner seemed 246 00:17:27.480 --> 00:17:30.920 to have all the luck, or they're just fooling themselves. But I mean, 247 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:33.160 I really do think that there's such thing as beginner's luck, and I've 248 00:17:33.160 --> 00:17:37.759 seen it in a million forms, whether you know. My first trip out 249 00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:41.039 doing big Foot stuff, I found footprints, and it was a decade until 250 00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:44.960 That's not true, probably, but almost a decade until I found another set. 251 00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:49.039 Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and Bogo. We'll be 252 00:17:49.119 --> 00:18:00.519 right back after these messages. We found footprints on that expedition too, and 253 00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:06.160 I think on the next one we found footprints down was it the Quinault River 254 00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:11.359 found them down in the mud, and even really tiny footprints. So there 255 00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:15.960 there it looked like it was a family that was down there together in the 256 00:18:15.039 --> 00:18:18.240 mud. There. They weren't giant, huge trucks. They were like about 257 00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:22.240 the bigger ones were about the size of my boot, like a size fourteen 258 00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:26.759 boot. But you can see where, like the smaller set of the two 259 00:18:27.079 --> 00:18:33.559 faced the embankment because it was low tide, and you can see where the 260 00:18:33.559 --> 00:18:37.160 where the little one was set down, I can see where it's it's feet 261 00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:40.640 hit and then where it started walking around there's these a little four inch prints. 262 00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:44.119 Yeah, I found the small prints, and I was really excited about 263 00:18:44.119 --> 00:18:47.960 it. And at first I thought that a little kid had been playing down 264 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:52.319 in the mud, but it was in such a remote area. And the 265 00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:55.599 shape of the foot because kid kid feet are kind of, you know, 266 00:18:55.720 --> 00:19:00.640 short and stubby in comparison to adult feet, but it was even shorter and 267 00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:03.960 fatter than what you would think, and the toes were splayed a little bit 268 00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:07.359 differently. How long were these footprints, the small ones, would you say 269 00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:11.319 about four or five inches. They weren't that big, they're they're a little 270 00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:14.519 over four. Would that be interesting to see? Did you take pictures of 271 00:19:14.559 --> 00:19:18.359 them or cast him or anything? We did. We took pictures. Um. 272 00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:22.759 They were on the internet for a while. Um. Unfortunately somebody came 273 00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:27.880 through and kind of stomped this crazy guy they got that taught me how to 274 00:19:27.880 --> 00:19:33.880 foot tinfoil inside a bicycle hump for when the big foots throw rocks. Oh 275 00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:37.200 geez, he walked in. It was it was like it was crazy, 276 00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:41.480 dude. He walked in and he's always going, well, dude, don't 277 00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:45.039 step there, don't stop there, and he's like what he's like spinning in 278 00:19:45.079 --> 00:19:48.200 circles and just try like We're like, don't step there, and he's like 279 00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:52.799 he was not to you all there. He got panicked and started moving more 280 00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:56.119 and more like shuffle his feet and just wiped out the whole thing. Yeah, 281 00:19:56.160 --> 00:20:00.359 and he couldn't have wiped them out more if he'd tried, right, 282 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:06.559 But you also found something along with those baby trucks. Yeah. I think 283 00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:11.839 that was the second expedition again. My friend Kevin and I were out in 284 00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:17.319 a kayak and we saw what looked like tracks on the side and so Kevin 285 00:20:17.400 --> 00:20:22.839 pulled the kayak over and I found some grass that was braided and tied together. 286 00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:26.119 And again, I mean, there's no way for us to know if 287 00:20:26.279 --> 00:20:29.480 if a human did this or a non human did this, But it was 288 00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:33.359 in such a remote area that I broke the grass off and brought it back 289 00:20:33.400 --> 00:20:36.799 to show everybody to see what they thought. That was tied up into a 290 00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:41.680 branch. So the branch was overhanging, and they woved and tied the grass 291 00:20:41.720 --> 00:20:45.079 into the branch. It was like a little daisy chain. Yeah, I 292 00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:48.440 had little knots in it. I mean, whoever or whatever did it, 293 00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:52.240 there was definitely some manual dexterity. What was it? I mean, I 294 00:20:52.279 --> 00:20:56.000 hope no sasquatches are listening. Some mean no disrespect, but like, was 295 00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:59.559 it poorly done? Was it a poorly done braiding weaving thing? Or is 296 00:20:59.599 --> 00:21:03.319 it pretty? I think it was poorly done. No, No, Okay. 297 00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:07.039 I've seen some stuff that people had purported sasquatches made, um, and 298 00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:10.440 the stuff that I have found most compelling, um, I'm thinking of like 299 00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:14.519 those mouse wraps that I've seen twice now, Um, yeah, they're pretty 300 00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:17.640 poorly done, you know. And I've and I've seen some cedar ball sort 301 00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:21.400 of things that I thought were intriguing. Yeah, yeah, that like that 302 00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:26.000 quality of stuff. It wasn't like jewelry quality. But in maybe the kid 303 00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:29.640 had done it. I mean, if a little kid said, oh, 304 00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:32.400 you know, look at this, you know, necklace that I made, 305 00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:36.519 or look at this beautiful chain that I made, you could tell that somebody 306 00:21:36.599 --> 00:21:38.920 made it. Sure, Sure, And you found these in what context, 307 00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:42.599 like in this in the swamp, or in the along along a road or 308 00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:47.079 I think that this was at the mouth of the Quinault River. Okay, 309 00:21:47.319 --> 00:21:51.359 Okay, by the way, I did look for the photographs of the juvenile 310 00:21:51.400 --> 00:21:53.039 prints and I found them online on the bfr O site. Oh good, 311 00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:56.119 there was all kinds of stuff out in that time, I saw. That's 312 00:21:56.119 --> 00:22:00.559 why I had that great sighting, the one on one that night, and 313 00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:06.079 like five of us saw that one. There's that one where those guys were 314 00:22:06.079 --> 00:22:10.039 walking down the main road and they got where Walt saw him run off, 315 00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:11.960 and then they had three of them come up behind him. The huge one 316 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:15.160 sit on the road, the other two went on each side of the road 317 00:22:15.160 --> 00:22:18.160 off into the brush, and then ran up beside him and passed them on 318 00:22:18.200 --> 00:22:21.119 each side of him, with the big one coming up behind me. There 319 00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:23.759 was there was a bunch of stuff happening that trip. One story that I 320 00:22:23.799 --> 00:22:29.920 wanted to share that it's one of my favorite stories because people wonder, oh, 321 00:22:29.960 --> 00:22:33.119 well, you know, how is it that you're not always being tricked 322 00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:36.519 And it's possible that we're being tricked every time. But I was again out 323 00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:41.480 with a group of gals out I don't want any say the name of the 324 00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:45.240 site because it's my favorite site, but it's in central Washington, and it 325 00:22:45.319 --> 00:22:49.920 was three of us gals and a guy that it was his first time big 326 00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:56.759 footing, and he was hogging the night vision and finally we just said just 327 00:22:56.839 --> 00:22:59.920 keep it. We don't care, because you don't really want to go back 328 00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:03.960 and forth from night vision to not because then when you take the night vision 329 00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:06.960 away, you can't see. And so I'd rather do one or the other. 330 00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:10.759 And he was so excited with, you know, anything that he might 331 00:23:10.839 --> 00:23:12.799 see. And so we stood on the side of the road for a little 332 00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:17.240 bit and we were just talking and laughing, and he said that he saw 333 00:23:17.319 --> 00:23:22.720 something way down in the woods off to the side, and so we were 334 00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:26.599 telling him to explain what he saw. And I just assumed it was probably 335 00:23:26.599 --> 00:23:27.319 an elk or deer, and then he said, no, no, no, 336 00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:30.519 it's it's bipedal. I'm sure it's bi petal. And he said no, 337 00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:34.119 there's two of them, and so the three of us girls again thought, 338 00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:40.279 you know, maybe he's mistaking something else. Just for warmth. We 339 00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:45.839 started to weave back and forth, and he said, now it's weaving back 340 00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:49.960 and forth, so he couldn't see what we were doing. He could only 341 00:23:49.960 --> 00:23:52.880 see ahead of him with the night vision. He wasn't turning around to see 342 00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:57.279 what we were doing. And whatever we would do, the two things down 343 00:23:57.960 --> 00:24:02.400 in the brush on the other side of the gravel road would do the same 344 00:24:02.440 --> 00:24:06.359 thing. And we didn't tell him that it was copying us until later, 345 00:24:06.440 --> 00:24:10.519 but that that one still gives me goosebumps because it was just so cool. 346 00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:15.039 And of course the three of us girls, we didn't see it at all. 347 00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:19.279 All we heard was the enthusiasm in his voice and it was kind of 348 00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:23.119 cool to experience that. And I think finally one of the girls was like, 349 00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:26.519 will you just give me the night vision goggles so that I can see 350 00:24:26.519 --> 00:24:29.319 what's going on too, And he really didn't want to give them up when 351 00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:32.279 we told him later, like, yeah, we were. We were weaving 352 00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:36.119 back and forth and then we were moving our arms and and we were like, 353 00:24:36.160 --> 00:24:40.200 okay, we'll just keep telling us what they're doing. And so whatever 354 00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:41.799 we would do, it would do. So it was mimicking us. So 355 00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:47.000 obviously it wasn't threatened by whatever we were doing. Yeah, it kind of 356 00:24:47.119 --> 00:24:51.839 gives a new meaning to monkey see, monkey do, but the navitail must 357 00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:55.519 ape do. Yeah, I mean it was aping us. There you go, 358 00:24:55.640 --> 00:24:57.200 there you go, we're speaking of that. I mean we were talking. 359 00:24:57.319 --> 00:25:03.000 You were talking about the primate like the chimpanzees using like hand signs and 360 00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:11.000 sign language. You saw sasquatch do the same, do a hand gesture down 361 00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:15.720 into Mexico when we were down there too. Yeah. We were up near 362 00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:22.559 some on a sazzy ruins and we were walking back from the ruins and I 363 00:25:22.599 --> 00:25:29.759 was walking with my ex and we each simultaneously smelled something. He smelled a 364 00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:33.359 really foul odor, and I smelled what smelled like cinnamon, And I was 365 00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:37.640 trying to think of what could be growing in that area that would have a 366 00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:41.000 scent like that, And so he went running off to go tell everybody that 367 00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:45.400 we smelled something weird, and then I was just standing down there waiting, 368 00:25:47.319 --> 00:25:53.079 and then I noticed that there were two parallel tracks in the tall grass, 369 00:25:53.920 --> 00:26:02.480 and I started to walk toward the paths and then the hair went up on 370 00:26:02.519 --> 00:26:06.319 the back of my neck and I saw and again I wrote this in my 371 00:26:06.400 --> 00:26:15.160 journal, I saw something dark brownish that was horizontal, and it was moving 372 00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:22.200 up and down. It's hard to explain it without doing a visual but if 373 00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:27.480 you imagine like the motion that one of the gates does for a train track, 374 00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:30.799 it was kind it was kind of like that, kind of like the 375 00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:33.920 up and down, but not as obvious. Does that make sense, Yeah, 376 00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:38.279 I think so. And you see something weird like that and your brain 377 00:26:38.359 --> 00:26:44.680 doesn't know what to make of it, and it sasquatch was not what I 378 00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:47.000 thought at all. That was not the first thought. I just thought, 379 00:26:48.039 --> 00:26:52.680 it's like a weird, like horizontal animal, Like, what is that? 380 00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:56.839 And I turned my head to yell for everybody else that I saw something, 381 00:26:56.880 --> 00:27:00.839 and I know that's you're not supposed to do that. And when I turned 382 00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:03.039 back, it was gone, and I was a little bit shaken. And 383 00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:07.480 so by that point everybody was kind of coming back down to the area, 384 00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:15.880 and I told Kevin what I had seen, and he took off running up 385 00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:21.599 the slope and I was afraid because I didn't know what it was, and 386 00:27:21.799 --> 00:27:26.079 he was gone for a really long time. Yeah, he had a whole 387 00:27:26.079 --> 00:27:33.160 sighting up there, though. But how many months later was it? Months 388 00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:40.920 later, when I was in a class, they were showing gestures and I 389 00:27:40.920 --> 00:27:44.640 think it was a bonobo that did this, and then bonobo did the same 390 00:27:44.680 --> 00:27:48.880 gesture with its arm that I had seen in New Mexico, and I literally 391 00:27:48.920 --> 00:27:52.519 fell out of my seat in class, and I mean, it was really 392 00:27:52.559 --> 00:28:00.680 embarrassing. And the professor was this kind of really grouchy ish or older lady 393 00:28:00.759 --> 00:28:03.359 that I really liked her, but she was really tough on her students, 394 00:28:03.359 --> 00:28:06.920 and she just gave me this look like she was really mad at me for 395 00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:15.039 causing a scene. But I just it was so strange to see another primate 396 00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:18.079 doing what I thought I had seen in New Mexico. And I imagine you 397 00:28:18.119 --> 00:28:22.200 were a secret You were secretive about your big foot interests, especially at that 398 00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:27.640 point. Yea. I mentioned it to that teacher because she was talking about 399 00:28:27.640 --> 00:28:33.799 Grover Crants. She'd been friends with Grover, and I mentioned grover to her, 400 00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:37.440 and she laughed and talked about how it was so stupid that he believed 401 00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:41.160 in Bigfoot and blah blah blah, and I just kind of dropped it there 402 00:28:41.559 --> 00:28:45.880 thought a very welcoming environment to bring it up. I suppose, yeah, 403 00:28:45.880 --> 00:28:48.279 because it wasn't it doing like a like an upside down field, like if 404 00:28:48.319 --> 00:28:52.640 you were giving the thumbs down signaled to somebody like, yeah, the hand 405 00:28:52.880 --> 00:28:57.079 was faced away from me, and the hand was mostly closed and the yeah, 406 00:28:57.119 --> 00:29:02.279 the thumb wasn't sticking up, and it was just kind of moving up 407 00:29:02.319 --> 00:29:07.359 and down. And so that's not a hand gesture that you normally see with 408 00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:11.759 the human And so I really didn't know what I was looking at. And 409 00:29:11.880 --> 00:29:15.799 for our listeners, by the way, there's another BFR page devoted to I 410 00:29:15.799 --> 00:29:18.839 believe this particular expedition, the Northern New Mexico reports. So there's going to 411 00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:22.839 be links in the show notes for all these expedition reports from back in the 412 00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:26.640 day. So there were you with us when we found that where they slept. 413 00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:30.079 Did you see that? Did you did you see that where we found 414 00:29:30.079 --> 00:29:33.759 that the prints and the dust and all that. Yeah, there were also 415 00:29:33.880 --> 00:29:41.119 the huge piles of scat and the tree twists that these trees were huge, 416 00:29:41.160 --> 00:29:45.359 and something had you know, that was seven or eight feet that had a 417 00:29:45.359 --> 00:29:48.559 reach of seven or eight feet up had just taken the top of it and 418 00:29:48.599 --> 00:29:52.720 just twisted it around. And I was looking at it, going, could 419 00:29:52.759 --> 00:29:56.920 the snow do that? The snow and I think it was Hoyt just kind 420 00:29:56.920 --> 00:29:59.519 of smiled and shook his head. No. There is a picture of that 421 00:29:59.559 --> 00:30:03.000 scat pile on the New Mexico breakdown by the way too. So yeah, 422 00:30:03.359 --> 00:30:08.920 we found three. There was like three spots like they slept that they almost 423 00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:14.279 like swept it like there was nothing in these batting There was no betting materials, 424 00:30:14.279 --> 00:30:17.640 just it was just clean shaped and you can see like we're they had 425 00:30:17.640 --> 00:30:22.119 been laying down and there was and they went to the bathroom right there, 426 00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:23.920 like right in the where they'd been sleeping, like they pee, like I 427 00:30:23.920 --> 00:30:26.279 think they all peed, and like they all had urine marks in the middle 428 00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:30.440 of them, right. Yeah. Is that an ape thing to do? 429 00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:34.880 I mean, I don't do that. Um, Typically the apes that I 430 00:30:34.920 --> 00:30:40.400 worked with didn't poo and pee and then sleep right where they pooed and peede. 431 00:30:40.440 --> 00:30:42.359 But I think they got up. I think they got up when they 432 00:30:42.440 --> 00:30:45.759 left they did it, I think is it looked like Yeah, that would 433 00:30:45.799 --> 00:30:51.400 make more sense. But I mean they don't have the same taboo about it 434 00:30:51.440 --> 00:30:53.319 that we do, you know. I think I remember Dennis full telling me 435 00:30:53.400 --> 00:30:57.960 that they found that at the Kentucky site, big swaths of the ground cleared 436 00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:04.359 away by these things. Um, this swept clean of most of the leaf 437 00:31:04.400 --> 00:31:08.039 litter and forest litter and all that it had brushed it off so that it 438 00:31:08.119 --> 00:31:11.599 was smooth. Yeah, that's interesting. Owner with that. What that's what 439 00:31:11.720 --> 00:31:17.400 that's about. It's more comfortable than playing on rocks and sticks. Yeah. 440 00:31:17.559 --> 00:31:22.759 Have you have you been able to go observe the Olympic Project nests? I 441 00:31:22.839 --> 00:31:25.880 haven't. No. Oh really, Yeah, that might be something for you 442 00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:26.680 to check out. You probably get a lot out of that. I mean 443 00:31:26.680 --> 00:31:30.640 they're still there, so yeah. I don't do a lot of on site 444 00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:34.839 stuff anymore. Um. The last time I was really able to be out 445 00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:44.799 in the field was autumn of twenty twenty one on horseback, and that was 446 00:31:44.920 --> 00:31:47.200 that was a lot of fun. Do you still do You still live in 447 00:31:47.240 --> 00:31:51.119 Washington? I do, gotcha, So there's opportunity. This is a matter 448 00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:55.519 of time and m gumption and availability. I have a thirteen month old. 449 00:31:55.920 --> 00:32:00.000 Oh gosh, well yeah again time exactly, and you frankly have more import 450 00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:02.559 and things to do. Perhaps then you went to Africa, right Tracy for 451 00:32:02.640 --> 00:32:08.599 baboons. Yeah, I studied baboons in South Africa for a few months. 452 00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:15.680 I was a research assistant for somebody who was pursuing their PhD. And we 453 00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:21.000 were just looking at how they used their their time and space. It was 454 00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:23.559 a spatial ecology study, and yeah, it was really interesting. There were 455 00:32:23.559 --> 00:32:32.839 three different groups and they had various levels of habituation. So one was I 456 00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:37.039 don't want to say tame, but pretty acclimated to humans, one was in 457 00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:43.400 the middle, and one was pretty skittish. So depending on which troop you'd 458 00:32:43.400 --> 00:32:45.279 been assigned to, you may or may not even see them all day, 459 00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:50.000 even though you were assigned to tracking them. Part of it was just trying 460 00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:54.440 to find them in the first place, examining scat, examining tracks. It 461 00:32:54.480 --> 00:32:58.400 was a lot of fun. And how many animals were in the troops that 462 00:32:58.440 --> 00:33:00.279 you were following, you know, I can't remember off the top of my 463 00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:06.279 head, but I want to say that it was probably around twenty ish. 464 00:33:06.359 --> 00:33:08.359 Did you ever hear them make sounds, it reminds you of there some things 465 00:33:08.359 --> 00:33:15.559 you heard of the pisod of Northwest I did, yeah, just some some 466 00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:20.839 of the sounds that they made kind of reminded me of like the chatter that 467 00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:22.880 is it Ron moorehead. Yeah, some of the chatter that he got. 468 00:33:23.319 --> 00:33:27.799 You heard the baboons make stuff that sounded like the what you heard on Ron 469 00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:34.000 mooreheadge a little bit um. They would make kind of some type type noises 470 00:33:34.039 --> 00:33:38.119 here and there, kind of just some chitter chatter. Was there a prompt 471 00:33:38.119 --> 00:33:39.920 for them to make that noise? I? Did they do it in a 472 00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:46.960 response to certain stimulus or Yeah? Actually that noise that I made was a 473 00:33:47.039 --> 00:33:51.920 noise that they made when they were having sex. Oh okay, yeah, 474 00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:54.440 so yes, it was definitely in response to a stimulus. Gotcha. I 475 00:33:54.480 --> 00:33:59.039 don't think that's that was the case with the sasquatches at the hunting camp at 476 00:33:59.039 --> 00:34:00.680 the time, and I I don't think that there would be a lot of 477 00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:08.440 similarities between baboons and sasquatch. I mean, first of all, one's a 478 00:34:08.480 --> 00:34:13.119 monkey, one's an ape, and they're so evolutionarily removed. You know, 479 00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:19.079 you're going to have you know some basic primate similarities, but I mean they 480 00:34:19.599 --> 00:34:24.079 were very different. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo. 481 00:34:24.280 --> 00:34:32.840 Will be right back after these messages. I'd like to talk a little 482 00:34:32.840 --> 00:34:39.199 bit about a potential sasquatch social structure, because it seems from my reading that 483 00:34:39.320 --> 00:34:43.960 most primate social structure kind of falls within a small number of categories. But 484 00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:46.400 also we're dealing with a small number of apes. The very few apes that 485 00:34:46.440 --> 00:34:51.000 are still living are just a small sliver of what once was, So there's 486 00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:54.480 probably many more social structures, but you know, so family, group and 487 00:34:54.639 --> 00:35:02.360 troop and something. But I'm most interested in actually the orangutan social structure because 488 00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:07.039 I think, and I don't know this, of course, but my best 489 00:35:07.079 --> 00:35:09.519 guests based on what I've seen in the data available to me, is that 490 00:35:09.519 --> 00:35:15.039 that is probably closest to the sasquatch social structure. Do you have any thoughts 491 00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:19.760 on that? Yeah, I would think with scarcity of resources, you would 492 00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:23.480 probably see something similar to the orangutan or something like the gorilla, but to 493 00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:30.320 a smaller extent, like the families would be smaller. Because nobody has studied 494 00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:36.840 this, and nobody really knows it's hard to say what their family groups would 495 00:35:36.840 --> 00:35:42.320 look like, if the male would stay present with the female after offspring were 496 00:35:42.360 --> 00:35:46.039 born, or if they would just leave, or if they're like gorillas, 497 00:35:46.159 --> 00:35:52.440 they're often bachelor groups, young bachelors that don't have their own family yet, 498 00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:59.079 but it's safer for them to be in groups together. I would guess that 499 00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:04.239 Sasquatch would do something like that where they would have the bachelor groups, especially 500 00:36:04.239 --> 00:36:07.280 with some of the stories that I've heard about some of the more daring type 501 00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:12.519 behaviors, like in New Mexico where rocks we're getting thrown at us, I 502 00:36:12.559 --> 00:36:16.760 would guess that that would probably be juvenile male type behavior. But yeah, 503 00:36:17.199 --> 00:36:22.760 I would guess somewhere similar to orangutan, where it's typically the female with the 504 00:36:22.840 --> 00:36:25.239 young and then the male just kind of, you know, has his territory 505 00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:30.679 and he doesn't stay with them necessarily, or guerrilla where it might be you 506 00:36:30.719 --> 00:36:36.840 know, a male and a couple of females in an offspring, but typically 507 00:36:36.920 --> 00:36:39.199 the sightings that people have, they don't see a big group of them, 508 00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:44.039 so I wouldn't think that it would be a social structure similar to like chimpanzees 509 00:36:44.079 --> 00:36:49.440 where there's a big troop together. Yeah, it seems to be between maybe 510 00:36:49.480 --> 00:36:52.880 one and three or something like that. And I'm sure there's outliers with four 511 00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:57.119 or maybe five or something, but one or two, maybe three individuals moving 512 00:36:57.159 --> 00:37:00.039 around in an area together and their footprints are found in same general area for 513 00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:05.119 quite a while. And there's and again, there's so few examples of this 514 00:37:05.159 --> 00:37:07.239 in the data set. It's hard to make any generalization off a data set 515 00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:10.639 of like three, you know, one, or it's just not fair to 516 00:37:10.679 --> 00:37:16.360 the to accuracy in the animals themselves. Um, but the big ones do 517 00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:20.920 seem to get around a little bit more. And I'm assuming like orangutan's kind 518 00:37:20.920 --> 00:37:23.440 of swooping into an area and maybe doing some booty calls or something, and 519 00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:27.599 um, and that's kind of it, you know, just circulating through the 520 00:37:27.639 --> 00:37:29.480 area. But I don't know, I don't know. There's so much to 521 00:37:29.559 --> 00:37:31.559 learn about this, and I think the only way you really can learn about 522 00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:37.519 that is by setting the footprints and trying to identify the individuals in an area. 523 00:37:37.639 --> 00:37:43.159 Well, I'm just comparing reports, you know, how many how many 524 00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:45.880 they see together? Um, Like like you said, you know, you 525 00:37:45.880 --> 00:37:50.920 don't get a lot of reports of where it's more than three of them together. 526 00:37:51.599 --> 00:37:52.320 Yeah, well that that might be is to be a factor of how 527 00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:59.599 well they hide. To some team members at the NABC, they they saw 528 00:37:59.679 --> 00:38:02.920 us as squat in August at one of our study sites, and they were 529 00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:07.719 hearing they thought three animals moved through the woods. They didn't know what they 530 00:38:07.719 --> 00:38:10.840 were for a long time until they saw one, but they heard they thought 531 00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:15.960 they had three things moving around them most relightful previous hour, but they only 532 00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:20.800 saw one. So we're kind of we're kind of limited on what humans. 533 00:38:21.559 --> 00:38:23.639 I guess where the sasquatches make a mistake and the humans observe them or something. 534 00:38:24.199 --> 00:38:28.880 So yeah, I mean three wouldn't surprise me. Again, I think 535 00:38:28.920 --> 00:38:35.880 a lot of the things that people report, I would guess would be the 536 00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:39.360 juvenile groups kind of reminds me of teenagers, you know, going out and 537 00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:45.920 toilet papering and egging houses. That period of adolescence where your brain isn't fully 538 00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:52.880 developed and you're just making bad choices and you're a little bit less risk averse 539 00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:55.320 than maybe an adult would be. Well, Bubba's going to outgrow that eventually, 540 00:38:59.320 --> 00:39:01.199 But yeah, I think a lot of a lot of those types of 541 00:39:01.320 --> 00:39:07.400 interactions where it is maybe a group of three. And I was with somebody 542 00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:10.000 once where they said they had the impression that the one was getting dared to 543 00:39:10.039 --> 00:39:13.480 do stuff, and we were joking about that. But I thought, you 544 00:39:13.480 --> 00:39:16.320 know, that's not out of the realm of possibility that they're you know, 545 00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:21.239 egging each other on in some way. Oh yeah, I think they are 546 00:39:21.079 --> 00:39:27.760 the juvenile ones especially, Yeah, which of course begs the communication thing again. 547 00:39:28.480 --> 00:39:30.039 What do you think the chances that these things are talking to one another? 548 00:39:30.199 --> 00:39:31.920 And of course you don't know, none of us know, but what 549 00:39:32.280 --> 00:39:38.719 are your thoughts on that. Well, there's obviously some kind of communication between 550 00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:43.800 the wood knocks, which carry long distances and the whoops. I mean, 551 00:39:43.960 --> 00:39:46.280 there's no way for us to know. I know that I would get scared 552 00:39:46.719 --> 00:39:52.000 when Bobo would make one of his more aggressive calls, because I would go, 553 00:39:52.039 --> 00:39:54.960 Okay, I don't want to be anywhere near where there's an aggressive call 554 00:39:55.039 --> 00:40:01.159 because I don't want there to be any kind of a misinterpretation. There's not 555 00:40:01.280 --> 00:40:05.119 a station. Yeah, well, I mean I didn't know that then. 556 00:40:05.159 --> 00:40:07.679 That was my third expedition. Remember in New Mexico. I would get really 557 00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:14.320 shaken and not want to be around when there was one of those like really 558 00:40:14.440 --> 00:40:17.639 deep calls that went out. Don't you think that if Bobo laid on a 559 00:40:17.719 --> 00:40:22.599 really heavy, sort of scary aggressive call, they would just kind of look 560 00:40:22.599 --> 00:40:24.559 at them and roll their eyes. Though I think that now, I think 561 00:40:24.559 --> 00:40:28.960 that they would. They would know that. I didn't think that then, 562 00:40:29.159 --> 00:40:35.360 because his calls are really loud. I mean, you wouldn't think that somebody 563 00:40:35.360 --> 00:40:39.760 can make a call that loud. And yeah, my first thought was if 564 00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:42.719 you know, if I heard that, I would be like, hey, 565 00:40:42.760 --> 00:40:47.599 who's in my area? Well, it's Bobo's Learngeal Sacks is why you know 566 00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:53.960 hack he's he's a surfer. He can pack that oxygen like a deep sea 567 00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:59.000 diver, right, like a harbor seal. Right. He Tracy even on 568 00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:01.679 some expeditions and you and around the country. That's a great story you got 569 00:41:01.679 --> 00:41:05.840 from down in Florida, you know the one I'm talking about. Yeah, 570 00:41:07.199 --> 00:41:13.400 So there were a group of us in Florida and one of the guys was 571 00:41:13.480 --> 00:41:20.360 really eager to camp remotely, and so he went and he set up the 572 00:41:20.440 --> 00:41:25.760 site down in the jungle, down off a dirt road, and he had 573 00:41:25.800 --> 00:41:29.840 some beers in the back of his truck. He set up his tent, 574 00:41:30.280 --> 00:41:34.599 and he was really happy with how his campsite was looking. And then after 575 00:41:34.639 --> 00:41:37.920 his his tent was set up, he went to go back to his truck 576 00:41:37.960 --> 00:41:44.000 to get the beers and I think some other stuff and something didn't let him 577 00:41:44.039 --> 00:41:50.000 go back to the truck. It was kind of menacing him, and we 578 00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:53.960 were able to have cell phone reception. So he called the base camp and 579 00:41:55.039 --> 00:41:59.800 said, hey, you know, I'm feeling intimidated. I can't get back 580 00:41:59.800 --> 00:42:04.320 to truck. Could somebody else come down here too? And I was the 581 00:42:04.360 --> 00:42:08.159 only gal there. It was all guys on the expedition, and I said, 582 00:42:08.159 --> 00:42:10.559 oh, I'll go. You know, came all the way to Florida 583 00:42:10.639 --> 00:42:15.760 to have something happened we camp. Base camp is really boring and the guys 584 00:42:15.800 --> 00:42:19.079 said, no, that's emasculating. You can't be the one to go, 585 00:42:19.519 --> 00:42:22.719 and so discussing who they want to go, and I'm like, guys, 586 00:42:22.719 --> 00:42:30.039 it's getting dark, guys, time's ticking. And so finally we decided nobody 587 00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:35.639 else was really interested. They're like, it's probably nothing. And so my 588 00:42:35.760 --> 00:42:44.199 ex agreed to drive me down there and then he would walk with me to 589 00:42:44.199 --> 00:42:49.960 Tony's camp and then he would walk back and then take the car back to 590 00:42:50.039 --> 00:42:58.039 base camp, and we get down to this dirt road and get to the 591 00:42:58.079 --> 00:43:01.280 area where you can't drive anymore and you have to walk. And I'm informed 592 00:43:01.320 --> 00:43:06.000 that I'm on my own. He's just going to stay at the car and 593 00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:10.320 make sure I'm okay. So I'm a little bit nervous. I'm in the 594 00:43:10.400 --> 00:43:15.840 Florida jungle at night. And then they said, don't use your white headlight, 595 00:43:15.920 --> 00:43:20.599 just use your red headlight that doesn't really put out very much light. 596 00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:27.760 And so I'm walking on this dirt road in pretty much complete darkness, and 597 00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:30.519 I have my walkie talkie and I'm going really slowly, and I'm scared, 598 00:43:31.480 --> 00:43:35.880 and I just, you know, I keep telling myself, just keep walking, 599 00:43:35.920 --> 00:43:38.199 You're fine, just keep walking forward. And then I hear something in 600 00:43:38.239 --> 00:43:43.480 the brush to the left of me, and I get on the radio and 601 00:43:43.480 --> 00:43:45.559 I go, oh, Tony, I think I can hear you. I 602 00:43:45.639 --> 00:43:50.519 must be getting really close. And Tony gets on the radio and he goes, 603 00:43:50.880 --> 00:43:53.639 I'm just sitting here at my tent. It's not me. And so 604 00:43:53.679 --> 00:43:57.079 then you know, I get the goose bumps, I get the hair on 605 00:43:57.480 --> 00:44:00.400 the back of my neck because I don't know, is it a wild boar? 606 00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:06.119 Is it an alligator? What is it? And so every time I 607 00:44:06.119 --> 00:44:08.760 would walk, it would walk. Every time I would stop, it would 608 00:44:08.760 --> 00:44:14.800 stop, and I'm just the sheer adrenaline. I mean, I'm like, 609 00:44:15.039 --> 00:44:19.079 you know, cold, sweaty, and let's just keep walking. Don't run 610 00:44:19.119 --> 00:44:22.119 because then it'll chase you. Just keep walking like you're supposed to be here. 611 00:44:22.760 --> 00:44:28.559 And I finally get to his truck and I tell him, hand at 612 00:44:28.559 --> 00:44:32.599 your truck and he comes out to the pathway and meets me, and he's 613 00:44:32.599 --> 00:44:35.719 excited because then he can get his drinks out of the truck. And I 614 00:44:35.719 --> 00:44:37.480 don't think they were beers because I don't drink beer. It was something else. 615 00:44:37.559 --> 00:44:43.320 But we get back to the campfire and he's like, I really needed 616 00:44:43.320 --> 00:44:46.039 one of these. So we each have a drink and then we're just sitting 617 00:44:46.079 --> 00:44:51.960 there talking and after a while, I said, you know, I actually 618 00:44:52.039 --> 00:44:52.679 have to go to the bathroom, and he goes, we'll just do it 619 00:44:52.719 --> 00:44:59.639 here. I'm like no, So I walk off into the darkness so that 620 00:44:59.679 --> 00:45:04.159 I can have some privacy to go to the bathroom. And as I'm going 621 00:45:04.280 --> 00:45:10.679 to the bathroom, something comes running up to camp and it's big whatever it 622 00:45:10.760 --> 00:45:15.039 is, and it's it's I can feel like the concussion of the footsteps on 623 00:45:15.079 --> 00:45:19.519 the ground. And I was so startled that the only thing that I could 624 00:45:19.559 --> 00:45:23.519 think to say was you're not playing there. And it stopped right then. 625 00:45:23.559 --> 00:45:28.280 And then I finished going to the bathroom and I came back and Tony was 626 00:45:28.280 --> 00:45:30.800 like, did you hear that? I'm like, well, yeah, it 627 00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:35.880 was right next to me. And so then we talked for a little bit 628 00:45:35.920 --> 00:45:38.199 longer, and then it was kind of quiet, and so I said, 629 00:45:38.239 --> 00:45:40.039 well, you know, I'm kind of tired. I think I want to 630 00:45:39.760 --> 00:45:46.519 head to bed now. And so I went into the tent and then he 631 00:45:46.599 --> 00:45:50.880 got into and then he goes, you know, I left the machete outside. 632 00:45:51.440 --> 00:45:52.840 What if it gets the machete? And I was gonna say, they 633 00:45:52.880 --> 00:45:57.559 could rip you limb from limb, they don't need any but instead I was 634 00:45:57.559 --> 00:45:59.840 like, you know what, good idea. You should probably get your machete. 635 00:45:59.840 --> 00:46:02.719 And so he got out of the tent, got the machete, dove 636 00:46:02.840 --> 00:46:06.880 back into the tent with a machete and I'm like, who careful with that 637 00:46:06.960 --> 00:46:12.599 thing? And then I fell asleep, and I was texting the Washington Group 638 00:46:12.639 --> 00:46:19.800 here and there, but all Throughout the night there was like some I don't 639 00:46:19.840 --> 00:46:22.960 know if it was rednecks, I don't know what it was, but like 640 00:46:22.119 --> 00:46:28.039 some kind of percussion type stuff where things were it was like wood knocks, 641 00:46:28.119 --> 00:46:31.800 but it was triangulating around us. And I don't know what it was, 642 00:46:31.840 --> 00:46:37.480 but I don't think Tony got as much sleep as I did. I slept 643 00:46:37.159 --> 00:46:40.039 pretty well that night, and then the next day we just packed up and 644 00:46:40.119 --> 00:46:45.679 left. I felt so bad for him because he started out with such enthusiasm 645 00:46:45.760 --> 00:46:47.920 and he's like, guys, I'm going to set up this remote camp and 646 00:46:49.400 --> 00:46:51.599 everyone was like, yeah, yeah, okay, whatever, go ahead, 647 00:46:51.920 --> 00:46:57.159 and yeah. I mean he waited a long time for somebody else to come 648 00:46:57.199 --> 00:47:00.400 down there. And it was definitely weird down there. Whatever was going on, 649 00:47:01.239 --> 00:47:06.960 they definitely wanted their presence known, ye speaking and speaking it scared or 650 00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:10.840 not scared. You were actually with Renee on her Renee from the show, 651 00:47:10.920 --> 00:47:15.920 on her first night out squashing up in Washington. Yes, yeah, well 652 00:47:15.960 --> 00:47:17.719 we'll tell us about that. Because I met Renee on the show. I 653 00:47:17.719 --> 00:47:21.800 didn't know her at all before that. Yeah. So she was a field 654 00:47:21.800 --> 00:47:27.440 biologist and she'd had a few potential sightings and she just wanted to look into 655 00:47:27.440 --> 00:47:32.679 it a little bit more, and she was. It was Renee and Matt 656 00:47:32.719 --> 00:47:37.000 Moneymaker and I and she was nervous, and she asked if she could hold 657 00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:40.719 my hand, and I said sure, and then I just promptly fell asleep, 658 00:47:40.719 --> 00:47:45.199 which was kind of my m O. Unfortunately, with big footing, 659 00:47:45.199 --> 00:47:49.159 I used to be able to sleep like a champ, and I, you 660 00:47:49.199 --> 00:47:52.840 know, pretty much slept through the night. But I mean, it's it 661 00:47:53.039 --> 00:48:00.320 is scary if it's the first time you've done something like that and you know 662 00:48:00.400 --> 00:48:05.519 you're out of your element and you've maybe had some spooky things happen in that 663 00:48:05.559 --> 00:48:07.960 area. Well yeah, and you know a lot of people want to go 664 00:48:07.039 --> 00:48:12.000 do this and then something happens and then they were ready for it, even 665 00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:15.760 though that's they literally went asking for that. But you just can't prepare yourself 666 00:48:15.800 --> 00:48:20.199 for the reality of facing off with one of these things, even if you 667 00:48:20.239 --> 00:48:22.280 don't actually visually see it. Well, I think a lot of the time 668 00:48:22.360 --> 00:48:27.960 they think that they want to have something happen because they think it sounds cool, 669 00:48:28.920 --> 00:48:35.159 but the reality is a lot different from maybe what you're picturing. Because 670 00:48:35.239 --> 00:48:37.079 when I was going to the bathroom and that thing was charging at me. 671 00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:44.840 Nobody wants that, right, And it's not like you get to pick the 672 00:48:44.920 --> 00:48:47.079 kind of encounter that you're going to have. Yeah, a lot of people 673 00:48:47.079 --> 00:48:51.480 in the museum tell me that they'd love to see one as long as they 674 00:48:51.480 --> 00:48:53.840 were in their car or something like that, or from a distance. And 675 00:48:54.320 --> 00:48:58.000 you know, it's only damn fools like us that run out and try to 676 00:48:58.000 --> 00:49:00.320 get close to these things. And even I've questioned a couple of times, 677 00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:04.840 being out there alone or whatever and hearing him knock back and forth, wondering 678 00:49:04.880 --> 00:49:07.400 like, what the hell was I thinking? But this is what I do. 679 00:49:07.519 --> 00:49:10.159 So I got to you got to see it through. It'd be horrifying, 680 00:49:10.239 --> 00:49:13.880 scary. Yeah. Well, I mean when I was on that dirt 681 00:49:13.960 --> 00:49:16.440 road all by myself and Florida, I thought, I am an idiot If 682 00:49:16.480 --> 00:49:20.239 I die this way, nobody's going to feel bad for me because this was 683 00:49:20.280 --> 00:49:23.320 a very bad choice. Well, you'd only be an idiot if you didn't 684 00:49:23.320 --> 00:49:30.679 think that. You're mentioning after your friends sitting going out there and going to 685 00:49:30.760 --> 00:49:32.440 the bathroom and having something run at you, the same thing happened to would 686 00:49:32.559 --> 00:49:37.719 barred up in Central Washington. You're a favorite spot Tracy. But after Bart's 687 00:49:37.800 --> 00:49:40.519 exciting, about a half hour that I went out to use the bathroom. 688 00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:45.599 I'm squatting over a hole I dug, and this thing starts running at me 689 00:49:45.679 --> 00:49:50.280 full speed, just boom boom boom, heavy heavy footfalls, and yeah, 690 00:49:50.320 --> 00:49:52.960 I yelled, I yelled, damn it, I'm trying to take a crap, 691 00:49:52.039 --> 00:49:57.480 leave me alone. And it just stopped. It just totally stopped, 692 00:49:57.480 --> 00:50:00.159 and that was it. Yeah, And people were like, well, why 693 00:50:00.199 --> 00:50:01.119 did you say something? Didn't you want to see what it was? And 694 00:50:01.719 --> 00:50:05.719 it's like, if I hadn't been going to the bathroom, it would have 695 00:50:05.719 --> 00:50:07.039 made me go to the bathroom. I mean, it was that rattling. 696 00:50:08.320 --> 00:50:10.840 You just got it out of the way first. I did. Um. 697 00:50:12.679 --> 00:50:15.679 And you know, people have asked me before like have you ever been scared, 698 00:50:15.679 --> 00:50:17.079 and like, of course, I've been scared. Some of this stuff's 699 00:50:17.119 --> 00:50:22.880 really scary. The vast majority of the things that you've observed in the field 700 00:50:23.159 --> 00:50:29.280 are pretty much they're all pretty much ape stuff, right pretty much. Yeah. 701 00:50:29.320 --> 00:50:34.000 I mean some of it you you could explain, um, you know, 702 00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:36.159 it could be bare, it could be dear, it could be elk, 703 00:50:37.239 --> 00:50:42.079 but a lot of it is very ape like and you're you're satisfied that 704 00:50:42.119 --> 00:50:45.599 these things are pretty much that, right? Yeah, I mean if if 705 00:50:45.239 --> 00:50:49.440 you were going to classify them, it wouldn't make sense to put them anywhere 706 00:50:49.440 --> 00:50:51.880 else. All right, Well, let's get into the weeds a little bit 707 00:50:51.880 --> 00:50:57.679 and talk about that slightly. Um, where do you think the most logical 708 00:50:58.559 --> 00:51:02.480 ancestor is you are? Are you in the gigantopithecus vein of thought or really 709 00:51:02.519 --> 00:51:09.639 like the gigantopithecus hypothesis? Um, but I'm open again just because we don't 710 00:51:09.639 --> 00:51:15.039 know. Um, we need to have more evidence before I could, um, 711 00:51:16.039 --> 00:51:19.639 you know, may make a statement one way or another on that. 712 00:51:20.480 --> 00:51:22.840 Heck, we need more evidence of gigantopithecus, not that that it's real, 713 00:51:22.880 --> 00:51:25.000 but just we need to know more about it, you know, Right. 714 00:51:25.559 --> 00:51:29.039 That's always been a tough one for me getting over that part of it. 715 00:51:29.119 --> 00:51:30.800 So we know so little bit gigantus, except for a little bit about what 716 00:51:30.840 --> 00:51:35.519 they ate and maybe how big they were approximately. What are your thoughts on 717 00:51:35.559 --> 00:51:38.960 some of the other hairy hominoids that have been reported worldwide? Do you have 718 00:51:39.159 --> 00:51:42.880 do you do you even bother with that because you may or may not have 719 00:51:42.920 --> 00:51:46.599 firsthand experience with you you mean like the or penduck, orange pendex, Ebu 720 00:51:46.679 --> 00:51:54.239 go Gos, the yearen Um, the almasty. Yeah, I was it. 721 00:51:54.760 --> 00:52:00.559 Maria Mayor was that who was studying the orange pendeck. No, Marea 722 00:52:00.760 --> 00:52:05.000 is a primatologist. She's on the expedition Bigfoot Show. Great. For some 723 00:52:05.079 --> 00:52:07.840 reason, I thought that she'd also studied the oring pendeck made. Maybe it 724 00:52:07.880 --> 00:52:13.880 was somebody else, Debbie Martyr did. She worked for a wildlife organization. 725 00:52:14.599 --> 00:52:17.440 She studied these things, and she's actually still in Sumatra studying the tigers and 726 00:52:17.519 --> 00:52:22.559 doing things for a Wildlife International or one of these organizations. Yeah, there 727 00:52:22.840 --> 00:52:27.800 have been several sightings, and I think a few, of course blurry photos, 728 00:52:27.840 --> 00:52:31.840 because why would they ever be anything but blurry of oring pendec, which 729 00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:36.440 I thought was pretty compelling. Yeah. Yeah, a photographer actually saw it. 730 00:52:36.559 --> 00:52:39.920 Jeremy something saw one of these things, and I don't think. I 731 00:52:39.920 --> 00:52:43.239 don't know if you got a good picture or a bad picture or no picture. 732 00:52:43.239 --> 00:52:46.119 I don't remember that. But I've always thought orange pendex are definitely a 733 00:52:46.119 --> 00:52:50.360 worthy avenue of study, for sure. Yeah, especially in light of the 734 00:52:50.360 --> 00:52:53.880 Homo flurisi insis discovery back in two thousand and four. Another home would lose 735 00:52:53.920 --> 00:52:59.679 on insis as well from the same island chain, but the Philippines. Yeah, 736 00:53:00.039 --> 00:53:04.119 than the prevalence of small bodied homonoids in the area. I think it's 737 00:53:04.199 --> 00:53:07.719 very intriguing. Yeah, that's really interesting too, because everybody always thinks about 738 00:53:07.760 --> 00:53:13.880 just the larger ones, but the smaller ones are equally interesting to study. 739 00:53:14.320 --> 00:53:20.679 I think they're scarier. One of the freakiest things that somebody said to me 740 00:53:21.159 --> 00:53:27.000 was I think this was in New Mexico again, when they were throwing rocks 741 00:53:27.400 --> 00:53:30.800 and we at first we thought that it was somebody in our camp, but 742 00:53:30.840 --> 00:53:36.239 it wasn't. They were throwing rocks, and then another one was kind of 743 00:53:36.280 --> 00:53:39.840 messing with one of the tents. Yeah, we would look with night vision, 744 00:53:39.840 --> 00:53:43.880 then we couldn't see anything, and so somebody said, maybe they're crawling 745 00:53:43.960 --> 00:53:46.880 toward us and hiding. And for some reason, the vision of them crawling 746 00:53:47.039 --> 00:53:52.360 just freaked me out so much I couldn't sleep at all that night. It 747 00:53:52.360 --> 00:53:55.599 turns out that's exactly what they do. I mean, that's what my greens 748 00:53:55.679 --> 00:54:00.280 video shows. Yeah, it was. It was a messing aroun Tracy again 749 00:54:00.400 --> 00:54:05.559 was the only female there, and uh, they were messed around her tent. 750 00:54:05.599 --> 00:54:07.800 And we had another tent set up by hers because she had she was 751 00:54:07.920 --> 00:54:12.559 away from the group a little more, you know, solo, there was 752 00:54:12.840 --> 00:54:15.079 a tent we were keeping all the food in, like putting out bait and 753 00:54:15.400 --> 00:54:17.760 offerings and stuff like that, and all that was next. He was walking 754 00:54:17.760 --> 00:54:22.480 back and fortween those tents, and then I couldn't really see it. I 755 00:54:22.960 --> 00:54:25.320 could see it, you know, doing stuff, but it would good kneel 756 00:54:25.360 --> 00:54:30.239 down by Tracy's tent. I guess at that point it was throwing pebbles down 757 00:54:30.239 --> 00:54:35.199 at the campsite. And I was the only guy up there about the vehicles, 758 00:54:35.239 --> 00:54:38.000 and you know, we were talking about like because she was there, 759 00:54:38.039 --> 00:54:43.280 we were like there we had like a really strict thing about no one looking 760 00:54:43.280 --> 00:54:46.239 through night vision, you know if if at night, you know, if 761 00:54:46.280 --> 00:54:49.719 there's a female going to go to the bathroom or something like that. And 762 00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:52.400 so I thought it was a colonel around the tent, and I was like, 763 00:54:52.840 --> 00:54:53.880 I don't want to be the create that gets caught looking through the night 764 00:54:53.920 --> 00:54:58.440 VISI I had night vision around my neck and I never looked through it because 765 00:54:58.719 --> 00:55:00.800 you know, I was afraid, like I could just see looked through then 766 00:55:00.800 --> 00:55:02.320 like someone looks at me and it's like it looks like I'm spine on him 767 00:55:02.400 --> 00:55:07.000 or something, you know. But yeah, the rock throwing they were really 768 00:55:07.000 --> 00:55:13.880 accurate because Chris was holding the camcorder and those they were throwing little pebble rocks 769 00:55:13.920 --> 00:55:17.679 at us. And they remember they hit the camcorder twice yep, like just 770 00:55:17.800 --> 00:55:22.239 nail the camcorder blank. And then I got hit once in the back of 771 00:55:22.280 --> 00:55:27.639 the head. They also wasn't there like a big metal water trough out in 772 00:55:27.679 --> 00:55:30.920 the field, and they would hit the water trough with rock and it would 773 00:55:30.920 --> 00:55:35.679 just ping, and I was like this, this feels kind of like an 774 00:55:35.760 --> 00:55:39.440 intimidation thing just to keep us on edge, or again juveniles just having fun. 775 00:55:39.920 --> 00:55:43.639 Yeah, we remember we heard it. They were up in the in 776 00:55:43.679 --> 00:55:46.760 the hay loft of the barn. My dad yelled at him and they took 777 00:55:46.760 --> 00:55:50.920 off running out of the hay loft and the big one you could hear it, 778 00:55:50.960 --> 00:55:52.760 like dude running through the hay lofts, went off the backside and there 779 00:55:52.840 --> 00:55:59.159 was big they the hay doors were open up on the you know, the 780 00:55:59.159 --> 00:56:01.679 top part, and you could just hear it like you can hear and then 781 00:56:02.360 --> 00:56:07.760 just boom boo, like you could hear it land, just this heavy thud 782 00:56:07.000 --> 00:56:09.599 and it didn't slow down. Remember, like, there was no like like, 783 00:56:09.599 --> 00:56:13.719 it didn't sound like a buckled it's knee orything. It just ran no 784 00:56:13.840 --> 00:56:16.079 problem. That stepped on that piece of sheet metal and left like a fifteen 785 00:56:16.119 --> 00:56:21.440 and a half inch sat of an outline of a foot. Yeah. Yeah, 786 00:56:21.519 --> 00:56:23.440 I slept in the hayloft, I think the next night. Yeah. 787 00:56:25.039 --> 00:56:29.079 Fantastic, fantastic. Yeah. But yeah, you know, you've been really 788 00:56:29.599 --> 00:56:32.400 fortunate with a lot of early experiences in your big footing career, and when 789 00:56:32.400 --> 00:56:36.000 you look back, I mean seeing one on your first trip out and having 790 00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:43.079 all these high activity expeditions having gone on, that's just nuts. Yeah. 791 00:56:43.199 --> 00:56:45.440 I agree. And she was one of the ones that was one of the 792 00:56:45.559 --> 00:56:51.000 early leaders to be the female on finding big Foot. Oh, to be 793 00:56:51.119 --> 00:56:53.800 considered for it. Yeah, but I just started brad school. Yeah. 794 00:56:53.840 --> 00:56:59.159 So Tracy didn't even show up for the interview. He didn't. Matt Moneymaker 795 00:56:59.320 --> 00:57:01.519 was like what why, And I was like, well, I really like 796 00:57:01.719 --> 00:57:06.840 this program. I think I want to see how it goes. There's there's 797 00:57:06.880 --> 00:57:08.599 probably always going to be another big Foot show if I really want to do 798 00:57:08.679 --> 00:57:13.239 that. Yep, do you think you would ever want to do that. 799 00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:17.760 Um, I don't think so. No TV is a weird gig. Yeah. 800 00:57:19.079 --> 00:57:22.960 I mean I've you know, done live TV here and there for unrelated 801 00:57:22.599 --> 00:57:27.320 things, But I don't know if i'd necessarily want to do something like that 802 00:57:27.480 --> 00:57:31.679 for my job. I really like writing and I like kind of picking my 803 00:57:31.760 --> 00:57:37.599 own schedule. And I know that what you guys did on the show was 804 00:57:37.360 --> 00:57:43.159 stressful and there was a lot of travel and it's it's a lot. Yeah, 805 00:57:43.199 --> 00:57:46.360 it's a whole lot actually, but you know, great, great things 806 00:57:46.440 --> 00:57:51.280 came from it. So no regrets in my behalf, that's for sure. 807 00:57:52.000 --> 00:57:55.960 Did you know that the keep it squatchy came from that first Washington expedition? 808 00:57:57.599 --> 00:58:00.480 No tell us about that. That was the first time that that phrase came 809 00:58:00.559 --> 00:58:02.760 up. Do you remember that, Bobo? I don't remember. No, 810 00:58:02.880 --> 00:58:09.800 I don't. Because we were investigating different areas and I kind of just like 811 00:58:09.960 --> 00:58:14.920 to make up words and so I was like, yeah, and so instead 812 00:58:14.920 --> 00:58:17.880 of saying that traffic is congested, I'll say something is trafficky. And so 813 00:58:19.039 --> 00:58:21.599 I was looking at a site and I said, well, I don't know, 814 00:58:21.719 --> 00:58:23.000 this could be kind of squatchy. And you started laughing and you're like, 815 00:58:23.079 --> 00:58:29.119 squatchy. I like that, And so then after that you you made 816 00:58:29.199 --> 00:58:32.800 up that phrase, keep it squatchy, significant history being revealed here. I 817 00:58:32.960 --> 00:58:37.000 stole it. Well, but you made the phrase. I just that word 818 00:58:37.039 --> 00:58:42.840 to describe it because I didn't know how else to describe something that might have 819 00:58:43.000 --> 00:58:46.559 evidence of it. That's interesting because you know, that's one of the small 820 00:58:46.639 --> 00:58:51.280 triumphs I guess of finding Bigfoot. As we introduced the word squatch or squatchy 821 00:58:51.360 --> 00:58:54.159 to the general public and kind of all traces back to you in some degree, 822 00:58:54.199 --> 00:58:58.239 then that's kind of cool. Well, again, I could be misremembering. 823 00:58:58.280 --> 00:59:00.440 It could have been Bobo who was saying it, and then I was 824 00:59:00.480 --> 00:59:04.320 like, oh, this area looks squashy, But I just remember Boba going, 825 00:59:04.360 --> 00:59:08.239 hey, I like that word. I'll go with your memory over mine. 826 00:59:09.039 --> 00:59:14.000 You win. Well, Tracy, this has been a lot of fun 827 00:59:14.079 --> 00:59:16.639 speaking to you, and really appreciate your time. It sounds like you're able 828 00:59:16.679 --> 00:59:21.559 and willing to stick around for the members section afterwards, for a little while, 829 00:59:22.280 --> 00:59:27.159 at least until the small human in your immediate vicinity wakes up. Ye. 830 00:59:27.679 --> 00:59:30.039 All right, well cool, Well, why don't we hop on that 831 00:59:30.159 --> 00:59:31.400 and that that'll be just for our members, of course, and if you're 832 00:59:31.440 --> 00:59:36.159 interested in becoming a member of Bigfoot and Beyond, you can do that. 833 00:59:36.320 --> 00:59:37.320 You can not just you, Tracy, I'm not talking to you. I'm 834 00:59:37.320 --> 00:59:39.599 talking to the audience here, although you can't as well, Tracy, if 835 00:59:39.599 --> 00:59:45.159 you'd like, go to www dot Bigfoot and Beyond podcast dot com and then 836 00:59:45.280 --> 00:59:47.519 follow the links to the membership stuff or there's always these links in the show 837 00:59:47.559 --> 00:59:52.559 notes, you can do too. But yeah, Tracy, thank you so 838 00:59:52.679 --> 00:59:54.440 much for coming on. We really really appreciate your time. Yeah, thanks 839 00:59:54.480 --> 00:59:58.480 for having me. Guys haven't done any but related for a long time. 840 00:59:59.119 --> 01:00:01.400 Welcome back. We gotta get back out there. It's always good luck going 841 01:00:01.440 --> 01:00:06.440 out with Tracy Neairly. So yeah, yeah, all right, Bubbo, 842 01:00:06.480 --> 01:00:07.679 why don't you take us out and we can do the members thing. Yeah, 843 01:00:08.119 --> 01:00:10.800 all right, folks, thanks for joining us again on another episode of 844 01:00:10.880 --> 01:00:15.280 Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobbo. And thanks to Tracy, an old 845 01:00:15.400 --> 01:00:19.199 time Squatch friend that came out on the show with us today. I hope 846 01:00:19.239 --> 01:00:22.000 to get out there again. She's always good luck out there. So thanks 847 01:00:22.039 --> 01:00:31.079 for listening and keep it squatchy. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of 848 01:00:31.199 --> 01:00:36.000 Bigfoot and Beyond. If you liked what you heard, please rate and review 849 01:00:36.079 --> 01:00:39.400 us on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you get your podcasts, 850 01:00:39.679 --> 01:00:45.679 and follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. You can 851 01:00:45.719 --> 01:00:49.920 find us on Twitter at Bigfoot and Beyond That's an end in the middle, 852 01:00:50.320 --> 01:01:00.559 and tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag Bigfoot and Beyond. Two