WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.360 --> 00:00:08.359 Hudson River Radio dot com. It beats listening to nothing. Be Frank. 2 00:00:08.960 --> 00:00:16.920 We're the only way to be is Frank Lord one, and welcome to Being 3 00:00:16.960 --> 00:00:20.679 Frank. We're the only way to be, is Frank. I'm your host, 4 00:00:20.719 --> 00:00:23.679 Frank Lebrono. We'd like to thank you for joining us here on the 5 00:00:23.920 --> 00:00:28.399 Intelligent Conversation podcast, that's what we like to call it. We know that 6 00:00:28.440 --> 00:00:32.759 your time is valuable. Competition is fear so many podcasts, but we like 7 00:00:32.880 --> 00:00:37.039 to think of ourselves as an alternative to all that noise, so we really 8 00:00:37.039 --> 00:00:40.640 appreciate you sharing some of your day with Being Frank. You know. 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But 26 00:01:49.359 --> 00:01:53.719 listen to your convenience and remember every program as archives, so that you can 27 00:01:53.799 --> 00:01:57.280 listen to any Being Frank virtually any time that you want. We think it's 28 00:01:57.319 --> 00:02:01.560 the intelligent thing to do. And we are recording live to tape, as 29 00:02:01.599 --> 00:02:06.480 they say on the sixth of July, so we'll give you some context. 30 00:02:07.079 --> 00:02:09.280 You know, I moved to the small Hudson River hamlet of Nayak over forty 31 00:02:09.319 --> 00:02:14.560 years ago, lying only twenty five miles north of Midtown Manhattan. It is, 32 00:02:14.599 --> 00:02:16.879 however, truly a world to part. Where New York City is all 33 00:02:16.919 --> 00:02:22.120 about hustle and flow, Nayak is often described as quaint, charming, and 34 00:02:22.240 --> 00:02:28.000 picturesque, with its impressive waterfront mansions and bustling art music scene. It is 35 00:02:28.080 --> 00:02:30.560 all of those things and more. I love it for those qualities, but 36 00:02:30.639 --> 00:02:36.400 even more so for its progressive attitude, diversity, and generosity of spirit. 37 00:02:36.759 --> 00:02:40.719 However, no place is paradise, and that certainly goes for Nayak too. 38 00:02:42.280 --> 00:02:46.800 Despite its boasts of inclusion, in the past, Nayak has turned its back 39 00:02:46.960 --> 00:02:52.400 on a significant, largely successful, and thriving part of its own village, 40 00:02:52.719 --> 00:02:57.319 the African American community. In the nineteen sixties, under the guise of something 41 00:02:57.360 --> 00:03:01.520 known as urban renewal, large swath of the town's vibrant black community surrounding the 42 00:03:01.560 --> 00:03:07.599 area around Jefferson Street were mislabeled as slums to give the town the excuse it 43 00:03:07.719 --> 00:03:13.960 needed to level the entire area, including successful black owned businesses, and to 44 00:03:13.960 --> 00:03:19.680 create more attractive housing and a parking lot to service the white downtown businesses. 45 00:03:20.159 --> 00:03:25.199 The once modest black family homes were replaced with substandard block housing and the businesses 46 00:03:25.560 --> 00:03:30.479 never returned, but the parking lot still exists. Keep that in mind. 47 00:03:30.080 --> 00:03:34.840 To this day, the black community still bears the scars of that ill fated 48 00:03:34.879 --> 00:03:38.639 attempt at so called civic improvement. It's now the subject of a new and 49 00:03:38.719 --> 00:03:45.919 wonderful documentary, What Happened to Jackson Avenue, A Story of Urban Renewal Executive 50 00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:52.960 produced by the Phoenix Theater Ensemble in association with Rivertown Film and created by Hakima 51 00:03:53.039 --> 00:03:57.800 Alim and Rudy Gold. We will meet some of the creators of this important 52 00:03:57.840 --> 00:04:00.319 film in just a moment and will take a taken After the break, we 53 00:04:00.360 --> 00:04:06.520 will continue our intelligent conversation on a very important and related subject, this recent 54 00:04:06.560 --> 00:04:13.879 Supreme Court decision on affirmative action with the nub ACPs. Wilbur Baldridge. Okay, 55 00:04:13.960 --> 00:04:16.480 let's meet our panel, And as I always do, these are really 56 00:04:16.480 --> 00:04:20.800 truncated introductions. If I were to read what all of these people have accomplished, 57 00:04:20.959 --> 00:04:25.360 we'd have no show left, nothing to talk about, because they're that 58 00:04:25.439 --> 00:04:29.319 impressive. So forgive me, guys, this is very brief as it relates 59 00:04:29.319 --> 00:04:32.519 to what we're talking about. Craig Smith is a managing director of the Phoenix 60 00:04:32.560 --> 00:04:39.079 Theater Ensemble and an executive producer of the documentary. At Least Stone is founder 61 00:04:39.079 --> 00:04:44.439 and artistic director of the Phoenix Theater Ensemble and also a co executive producer. 62 00:04:44.839 --> 00:04:49.720 Bill Batson an artist, activist, a longtime Nayak resident, and whose family 63 00:04:49.839 --> 00:04:55.600 was directly affected by the loss of Jefferson Street. Welcome everyone. I'm so 64 00:04:55.639 --> 00:04:59.879 excited to have you here. I saw the documentary and it is wonderful. 65 00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:01.759 Well done. Thank you so much. Franky, you can all say hi, 66 00:05:01.879 --> 00:05:05.360 thank you, thank Hi, Welcome, Good evening everyone, Craig, 67 00:05:05.399 --> 00:05:08.879 Bill, thank you, thank you for joining us. They know it's a 68 00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:12.800 little awkward because and now we stream audio and not video, but but that's 69 00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:15.040 okay. We have lots to talk about. It was a great description you 70 00:05:15.160 --> 00:05:21.480 gave of the the situation that the film explorers. Thank you, Bill, 71 00:05:21.519 --> 00:05:26.279 appreciate especially coming from you. That's that's quite a compliment, and I want 72 00:05:26.319 --> 00:05:29.279 to develop that. We're going to talk about it. But let's let and 73 00:05:29.279 --> 00:05:32.480 anyone can take any question at any time. Obviously I'll point some directly, 74 00:05:32.600 --> 00:05:35.759 but but in general, feel free to jump in at any time to make 75 00:05:35.759 --> 00:05:41.079 any point. But let's give some people some context. First, Uh, 76 00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:45.680 let's let's talk about us. And again it's part of the film, and 77 00:05:45.680 --> 00:05:50.879 it's oppressive. The history of the African American the black community in niag It 78 00:05:51.000 --> 00:05:55.519 is and it was it continues to be a rich one. But let's give 79 00:05:55.560 --> 00:05:59.959 some people a little context. Anybody can take this. The strong black presence 80 00:06:00.199 --> 00:06:02.680 has really always been a part of Naya Bill. You lived here, Yeah, 81 00:06:02.879 --> 00:06:09.480 I mentioned it, and I've studied some And it's interesting when Perry is 82 00:06:09.959 --> 00:06:14.399 interviewed in the film, and he's an ideal person to talk about the history 83 00:06:14.480 --> 00:06:19.000 of the county because he is a direct descendant of I think the first or 84 00:06:19.439 --> 00:06:26.199 the second Dutch immigrant to arrive here, and like the early sixteen hundreds, 85 00:06:26.240 --> 00:06:31.199 around the time of the Tapan patent, which is the first European presence, 86 00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:38.759 and the beginning of the encroachment and the loss of native land. From the 87 00:06:38.839 --> 00:06:44.000 very beginning there were African There was an African presence, and it wasn't just 88 00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:48.279 a slave presence. Of course, until eighteen twenty seven in New York State. 89 00:06:48.360 --> 00:06:51.279 In eighteen sixty three the United States, if you were a black person 90 00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:56.160 living here, you were likely to be a slave or to be caught by 91 00:06:56.160 --> 00:07:00.720 a slave catcher and declared a slave, whether you were or not. So 92 00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:06.759 but but Rockland County had free and enslaved Africans um from the very beginning. 93 00:07:06.839 --> 00:07:12.879 And when you look at the history of Naik, which became kind of the 94 00:07:12.920 --> 00:07:17.519 metropolis of the county, UM the kind of population center and the industrial center 95 00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:25.639 UM where goods from the farms were brought to markets through the river and eventually 96 00:07:25.639 --> 00:07:30.680 the road systems. UM. The population has consistently stayed around twenty percent. 97 00:07:30.839 --> 00:07:35.120 Maybe it's gone a little bit below, maybe it's gone a little bit above, 98 00:07:35.240 --> 00:07:41.319 and if if it would definitely hit its apex around the time that UM, 99 00:07:42.120 --> 00:07:46.279 the neighborhood, the middle class black neighborhood of Jackson Avenue was declared a 100 00:07:46.439 --> 00:07:54.079 slum despite m tons of evidence, and a lot of that evidence is in 101 00:07:54.120 --> 00:07:59.600 this documentary. Yes, and I want to talk about the development of bringing 102 00:07:59.639 --> 00:08:03.319 Craig a Lease in just a minute, talk about the development as a documentary, 103 00:08:03.560 --> 00:08:05.720 as a film, if you will, But but I want to develop 104 00:08:05.759 --> 00:08:11.839 a little bit more in context than UH, Jackson Avenue, UH tell us 105 00:08:11.879 --> 00:08:15.040 about it, what was and you grew up there as a young man, 106 00:08:15.680 --> 00:08:20.000 uh in the fifties and early sixties. What was was Jackson Avenue like? 107 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:24.279 Because now it's basically a parking lot as I've known it, and I've been 108 00:08:24.319 --> 00:08:28.240 here forty years, I never knew it as it was. What was it? 109 00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:31.120 Well, just to correct the record, I didn't grow up there, 110 00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:37.919 UM. I grew up in in the home UM my grandmother managed to get 111 00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:41.000 after she was forced out of Jackson Avenue in nineteen sixty four, she managed 112 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:46.200 to buy a home and UM and on Upper to Pew near central Nyak UM 113 00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:52.200 but Jackson Avenue, UM, there's a home. If anybody UH was walking 114 00:08:52.600 --> 00:08:58.879 in nyak up to Pew Avenue from UM Broadway, if they take a left 115 00:08:58.679 --> 00:09:01.840 on Liberty Street, which is right behind the post office, there is on 116 00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:07.240 one side there are apartment buildings, the brick buildings that you're referenced earlier. 117 00:09:07.320 --> 00:09:13.240 On the other side there's a lone little house and that's kind of typical of 118 00:09:13.799 --> 00:09:20.120 the construction UM. And that house UM recently had a condemned sign on it, 119 00:09:20.159 --> 00:09:24.519 but I just recently noticed it. The condemned signs left, So it's 120 00:09:24.519 --> 00:09:28.279 one of the last remaining UM houses in that kind of footprint. UM. 121 00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:33.200 And if you go up Bird Street, UM, which is the how the 122 00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:39.240 street that um has Saint Philip's on the corner. All those houses were very 123 00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:43.279 similar to that period. And um, if you watch this film, you'll 124 00:09:43.279 --> 00:09:52.559 see literally white picket fences and um you know stoops with porches and you know, 125 00:09:52.679 --> 00:09:56.519 dry cleaning signs hanging outside. So it was it was a um, 126 00:09:56.559 --> 00:10:01.519 you know, it was a mixed use, um, middle class neighborhood. 127 00:10:01.559 --> 00:10:05.799 I'm sure there were a couple of buildings that provided um, you know, 128 00:10:05.919 --> 00:10:11.240 multiple dwellings. Uh you know maybe um uh you know, uh single or 129 00:10:11.279 --> 00:10:16.759 studio apartments, so maybe you know, they weren't as groomed as a person 130 00:10:16.840 --> 00:10:20.519 grooms. You know, they're there a single family home. Um. But 131 00:10:20.559 --> 00:10:22.879 really very little of all the photographs, and there are a lot of photographs 132 00:10:22.919 --> 00:10:28.960 from this period, there's very very little evidence that Jackson Avenue was anything other 133 00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:35.720 than a typical American street. Okay, so now we have this thing called 134 00:10:35.799 --> 00:10:37.759 urban renewal, which from my little bit of research that I did do, 135 00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:43.559 started in the late forties but really kind of reached, uh it's most destructive 136 00:10:43.559 --> 00:10:48.519 in the sixties. It did, particularly in Nyack. What was what was 137 00:10:48.559 --> 00:10:52.840 the concept behind it? And again, anyone can take this and then we'll 138 00:10:52.840 --> 00:10:56.879 eventually wind it to how this became a film and what the film is saying 139 00:10:56.879 --> 00:11:01.799 about it. But we need some context. So we had this urban renewal 140 00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:05.679 plan, it comes to Nayak, How is it presented? How is it 141 00:11:05.759 --> 00:11:09.000 executed? Anyone here to grab? I mean, I can at least did 142 00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:13.159 you want to know? I would like to I would defer to you Bill 143 00:11:13.240 --> 00:11:18.759 as the historian. UM sure, and and and and once again, as 144 00:11:18.759 --> 00:11:22.879 I said, the film, Uh, you know, um Kim Alam and 145 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:28.440 Rudy Gould do a great job of telling the story and putting together the background 146 00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:35.480 of the legislation. But UM, basically there was a notion that UM cities 147 00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:43.159 required giant parking lots and UM and skyscrapers or or or or office blocks in 148 00:11:43.200 --> 00:11:48.960 the middle and UM and the and that uh this was a time when um, 149 00:11:50.639 --> 00:11:54.840 you know, the downtown was possibly struggling some and uh it wasn't quite 150 00:11:56.039 --> 00:12:00.320 um the magnet for retail that it had been in the past. UM. 151 00:12:00.360 --> 00:12:05.000 And there was this notion that if land could be acquired, UM, that 152 00:12:05.080 --> 00:12:09.279 it would be you know, a solution to the to all the problems that 153 00:12:09.320 --> 00:12:15.159 ailed Naiak at the time. UM. And uh what urban renewal does is 154 00:12:15.200 --> 00:12:20.799 it gives the government power to um declare something um. You know, uh, 155 00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:26.799 the that remove something for quote unquote the greater good. Um. People 156 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:31.200 are the proper product. You know, the property is condemned and the property 157 00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:37.240 owner is offered a settlement which is pennies on the dollar of the value of 158 00:12:37.240 --> 00:12:41.000 the property. UM. And you really don't have a recourse, there's no 159 00:12:41.879 --> 00:12:46.159 UM. And I'm very interested. I know there's legislation now and people are 160 00:12:46.200 --> 00:12:50.000 looking at how this was conducted around the country. I don't really even think 161 00:12:50.039 --> 00:12:52.759 that people had due process. I'm pretty sure that there are a lot of 162 00:12:54.360 --> 00:12:56.360 you know, people who were just in shock and they were dealing with the 163 00:12:56.399 --> 00:13:01.720 whole town and the newspapers and everybody, you know, kind of declaring that 164 00:13:03.159 --> 00:13:07.200 you know, happy days are here again, as long as you get out 165 00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:11.679 of your house quickly and um. And then as as one of the interviewees 166 00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:15.240 Lonnie Leonard says, the second you got out of your house, you know, 167 00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:18.000 it was bulldozed and then they would go after your neighbor um. So 168 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:22.320 uh, you know, the process um was very brutal and UM. And 169 00:13:22.360 --> 00:13:28.120 there was one other provision that the filmmakers were able to capture UM the way 170 00:13:28.120 --> 00:13:35.240 that the legislation was envisioned. UM. People were supposed to be reum relocated 171 00:13:35.919 --> 00:13:39.200 UM, you know, but before they were removed UM and before the project 172 00:13:39.279 --> 00:13:43.279 could proceed UM. But at one point the mayor of Nike at the time 173 00:13:43.360 --> 00:13:48.440 said that they didn't consider themselves a social service agency and that's not what they 174 00:13:48.440 --> 00:13:50.720 were elected to do. So basically people were just shoved out. And many 175 00:13:50.759 --> 00:13:54.559 of those families, you know, they're about one hundred and twenty four families. 176 00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:58.840 UM, we don't we don't really know where they where they went and 177 00:13:58.919 --> 00:14:01.279 what happened to them. And they lost you know, those that were owners 178 00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:09.000 lost, you know, UM an asset that could and that's that's generation generation. 179 00:14:09.080 --> 00:14:11.960 So yeah, there's there's there's a great great UM look at the Walston 180 00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:16.600 generational wealth. Yes. Some of the reasons behind this Wind talks about it 181 00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:20.320 is the Thruway was coming through at that time too, in the nineteen fifties, 182 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:24.200 and uh, and there were all these strip malls that were right around 183 00:14:24.200 --> 00:14:26.480 the throughway, and and that that was taking away all the retail, you 184 00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:30.759 know, and the retail from a place like Nyack, and so part of 185 00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:33.519 their consideration was that, Okay, we're going to clean up, clean up. 186 00:14:33.559 --> 00:14:37.279 Then they called them the slums. They'll clean up the slums and and 187 00:14:37.320 --> 00:14:41.720 we will get retailed back here. Uh. And then you know, wind 188 00:14:41.799 --> 00:14:46.440 says, you know that they didn't understand what a colossal mistake that actually was, 189 00:14:46.919 --> 00:14:52.200 because really what was replaced was a parking lot, a bank, and 190 00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:56.440 this other thing which kind of looks like a strip mall on Main Street. 191 00:14:56.480 --> 00:15:01.039 But I've never quite understood what exactly what that is. But the there wasn't 192 00:15:01.159 --> 00:15:07.720 improvement there with what they were thinking about, and these families and these businesses 193 00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:13.679 were removed. Uh the uh there for the eminent domain. They did give 194 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:16.240 you know, pennies and the dollar at least for the residents, but they 195 00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:20.519 gave absolutely nothing for any business. For all the business that were gone, 196 00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:24.639 and these people were relocated. Uh, faith talks about moving to Orangeburg, 197 00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:28.639 and they moved to Orangeburg. And when they moved there there there were petitions 198 00:15:28.919 --> 00:15:33.639 from the people in Orangeburg to keep the black families out. So this is 199 00:15:33.679 --> 00:15:37.639 the kind of reception that they were getting. People who had a community, 200 00:15:37.799 --> 00:15:41.279 who had a family, and then the government moves in bulldozes it all out. 201 00:15:41.320 --> 00:15:46.759 And there's no recourse. So it's you know, it's it's really it's 202 00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:50.039 it's shameful. It truly is, you know, when it's shocking as as 203 00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:54.200 a long time Nayak resident and one of the things, you know, Nayak 204 00:15:54.399 --> 00:16:02.000 is thought of and it is mostly qualify that a progressive town. So when 205 00:16:02.039 --> 00:16:06.639 you find out history like this, it's disturbing, as it should be. 206 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:10.679 You know, people should be pissed off. Wennie. You know, Lonnie 207 00:16:10.679 --> 00:16:15.240 says in liberal Nayak, Liberal Nayak, they did this, you know, 208 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:18.720 you know, he just hits the nail right in the head. And and 209 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:22.639 and it's one of the things that really appealed to us when we moved here 210 00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:26.559 was you know, the diversity and the liberalness and the progressiveness of this town. 211 00:16:26.960 --> 00:16:30.080 And then you know, when when we were talking to Bill, we 212 00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:33.519 were we were doing we were having a theater conversation out in the parking lot 213 00:16:33.799 --> 00:16:37.919 and we were I was on an audio tour that we were going to have 214 00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:41.279 for our festival. And when Bill was there and he was standing in the 215 00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:45.840 parking lot in two empty spaces, and he said, this is where my 216 00:16:45.960 --> 00:16:51.559 family's household stood, and and and and in this empty parking lot and and 217 00:16:51.720 --> 00:16:57.639 and that's what began this journey for us that led to this documentary. Um, 218 00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:06.720 you know, did you were you approached by Rudy and Hakima or did 219 00:17:06.759 --> 00:17:11.599 you approach them? I'm interested in the germ of how this all came together. 220 00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:14.599 Who was you know what came first? The chicken or the end? 221 00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:18.599 Did you did you guys have this idea and look for them to create this 222 00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:22.440 film or were they creating this film and then came to you for for more 223 00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:26.400 support, et cetera. So at least why don't you take out so um 224 00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:30.079 So, as Craig was saying, you know, we were we were creating 225 00:17:30.319 --> 00:17:38.960 an audio um and augmented reality walking tour um of the village, and so 226 00:17:40.039 --> 00:17:44.680 Bill was taking us to to various sites. But we were deciding what would 227 00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:48.079 be interesting to bring people in for the festival, to walk, to bring 228 00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:53.960 them through the town and to have this experience, but let them experience the 229 00:17:55.039 --> 00:17:57.880 village. And then when Bill stood in the parking lot and said my family 230 00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:06.400 home was here, that was it had like a really kind of soul shattering 231 00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:11.359 effect on me quite frankly. So then I started thinking about, well, 232 00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:21.799 what if we were to incorporate in this walking tour an augmented, augmented reality 233 00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:30.920 and narrative experience where you could see what used to be in the parking lot, 234 00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:33.960 you know, what that used to be, what was taken away from 235 00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:44.599 the village. And and so we had asked Rudy and Hakima Alm if they 236 00:18:44.759 --> 00:18:49.599 would, um start working on some visuals for this, and then it just 237 00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:56.039 kind of, um, how can I put this? It was a even 238 00:18:56.039 --> 00:19:02.920 though you have to understand, we are not our our art form is not 239 00:19:03.079 --> 00:19:10.680 making film. That isn't actually what we do. People. We've spent decades 240 00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:19.559 live theater performances. Um. However, um, it became very clear the 241 00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:26.960 more research that we did that this was a story that needed to be told. 242 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:33.000 Bill also had shared with us a zoom uh talk that was done I 243 00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:37.680 think at the Historical Society or at the Nyack Library. And so we watched 244 00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:48.839 that uh and heard some of the folks speaking and listen, we're storytellers and 245 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:52.039 the kind of theater that we do. I want to tell stories. It's 246 00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:56.440 important to me to tell stories that are deeply human, whether they're you know, 247 00:19:56.599 --> 00:20:00.839 comedy is absurd or whatever they are, but it's something that deeply human 248 00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:07.359 because I believe in the power of storytelling to change hearts and minds and hopefully 249 00:20:07.400 --> 00:20:14.799 cultures and societies and all of my big idealistic feelings about why I make the 250 00:20:14.920 --> 00:20:18.200 art that I do. But it seemed to me these were stories that needed 251 00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:22.759 to be told, that they needed to be told now. And even though 252 00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:29.359 we are not filmmakers, we could say, well, let's just wait until 253 00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:33.799 somebody comes along who you know, who can do this and who does know 254 00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:37.359 how to do this and who will do this, or we can tell the 255 00:20:37.400 --> 00:20:41.319 story now because the people who have lived through this, who are witnesses to 256 00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:47.440 this are you know, they're not twenty anymore, and these stories will be 257 00:20:47.559 --> 00:20:52.519 lost to us, and the truth has to be told, and we all 258 00:20:52.559 --> 00:21:00.400 need to we all need to face history, because it isn't his story for 259 00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:04.599 the people whose lives were impacted. It is still impacting them and will impact 260 00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:08.920 them for generations, has done so and will continue to do so. There 261 00:21:08.920 --> 00:21:11.720 were a lot of people who you know, who said, why why has 262 00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:17.400 it taken so long to tell this story? Uh, you know, and 263 00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:22.160 we were relatively new, I mean, we moved to Nyak in twenty eighteen, 264 00:21:22.519 --> 00:21:26.880 and we started doing theater performances there and then the festival last year. 265 00:21:26.279 --> 00:21:30.920 But in a way, I kind of think that it took someone from the 266 00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:37.880 outside to look at this and to unpack this uh complicated and painful history, 267 00:21:37.240 --> 00:21:41.799 and I hope a very sensitive way. Uh, we didn't have the baggage 268 00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:47.480 that I think. You know, people who have lived in Nyack have been 269 00:21:47.559 --> 00:21:52.279 there many filmmakers here in Nyak, but maybe it maybe it took someone from 270 00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:55.519 the outside to kind of look at it, So you know that that's kind 271 00:21:55.559 --> 00:21:56.440 of had something to do with it as well. Well. Yeah, and 272 00:21:56.480 --> 00:22:00.960 I think it's interesting with your perspective too, And you mentioned being outsiders with 273 00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:06.880 an idea and maybe an ideal as well of what Nyak was supposed to be. 274 00:22:07.720 --> 00:22:12.480 Has this changed your expectations in some ways? Could it even have made 275 00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:18.599 it stronger because the village hopefully at some point will come to terms with this, 276 00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:23.119 and they haven't entirely. And I thought I read an account and your 277 00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:30.480 response about the audience which was lacking in black representation, So are you know, 278 00:22:30.519 --> 00:22:34.880 within the context of the film too, are we doing enough to reach 279 00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:41.079 out again with as significant as Bill mentioned, a significant portion twenty percent of 280 00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:45.720 the Nayak population is black. But but are we you know, we certainly 281 00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:48.920 have improved, but but is it enough? And again it comes down to 282 00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:53.759 your impressions, what you thought, and what you found, especially through creating 283 00:22:55.240 --> 00:23:00.440 this film. We would I would say that the key I'm sorry, the 284 00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:04.160 key audience here or the one hundred and twenty four families that were displaced. 285 00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:11.400 And that is um something that you know, a filmmaker doing a screening can't 286 00:23:11.440 --> 00:23:15.640 really accomplish. That is, that is a kind of the job of like 287 00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:21.559 a commission um with some funding and and you know, some some resources. 288 00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:26.039 Um. And uh, you know I know that that UM. Any time 289 00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:30.720 I go to any event with in Nayak anywhere, but particularly the Niac Center 290 00:23:30.759 --> 00:23:37.440 because it is so um well represented in all the communities of the village, 291 00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:40.920 I look to the audience and I would have liked to have seen more people 292 00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:45.359 of color the first time, and I hope that that will will. You 293 00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:47.839 know, I know that steps have been taken to have more people of color 294 00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:51.920 here the next time. UM, But this is the second screening of something 295 00:23:51.960 --> 00:23:56.880 that should be viewed you know, hundreds of times here and and and and 296 00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:03.480 at this time too. It's it's perfect. So again with our taping here 297 00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:07.160 on the on the sixth, which is a Thursday, So Friday the seventh, 298 00:24:07.480 --> 00:24:12.079 if anybody is in the Nyack area at the Nyack Center at eight pm, 299 00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:18.079 will be a screening of Jackson and Whatever what Happened to Jackson Avenue, 300 00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:23.039 a story of urban renewal. Again, I'm grateful to you guys. I 301 00:24:23.079 --> 00:24:27.720 got an advanced copy and I was stunned by it. It's it's excellent in 302 00:24:27.759 --> 00:24:33.079 every way technically, it's it's easy to watch, it's beautifully photographed, and 303 00:24:33.160 --> 00:24:37.599 the stories are so honest. The people are so honest. And you know, 304 00:24:37.640 --> 00:24:41.119 I thought I kind of knew some of those people, but I did 305 00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:45.039 never knew their stories, and you know, they got bro there's there's um. 306 00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:52.160 There's two um two dynamics here. One is that oftentimes, especially the 307 00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:56.680 painful periods of of kind of racial discord, they feel, uh, when 308 00:24:56.680 --> 00:24:59.319 you're living in the North and you're living at a place that feels liberal and 309 00:24:59.359 --> 00:25:03.680 progressive, like it feels like you're separated by you know, decades and by 310 00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:07.640 hundreds of miles from those events. You know that they take took place in 311 00:25:07.720 --> 00:25:12.200 another time and another place on another side of the Mason Dixon line. But 312 00:25:12.319 --> 00:25:17.279 this is a perfect example where in every American city that hadn't ever been renewal 313 00:25:17.359 --> 00:25:22.480 program, you know, a very Jim Crow, viciously Jim Crow thing occurred 314 00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:29.000 with government sanction and without you know a lot of protests. But the other 315 00:25:29.039 --> 00:25:33.400 thing which I think came across from what the filmmakers have done and what people 316 00:25:33.880 --> 00:25:37.519 started to discuss at the Night Center and the people who I know who've seen 317 00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:42.359 the film and discussed, is that there are aspects of that displacement going on 318 00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:48.519 today that there are um you know, certainly one way to lose your houses 319 00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:52.640 through a bulldozer. But if you know, if you're renting and suddenly you 320 00:25:52.680 --> 00:25:56.960 know them, you know your your rent is doubled or tripled, you know 321 00:25:57.039 --> 00:26:03.440 that that that is a form of displace And if the number of rental units 322 00:26:03.440 --> 00:26:07.039 start to shrink and it puts more pressure. So there are um a lot 323 00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:14.279 of um factors today that make um, you know, uh Nayak a less 324 00:26:14.279 --> 00:26:19.160 and less friendly place, um you know, uh for for people who aren't 325 00:26:19.160 --> 00:26:23.000 aren't hot, you know, in the upper echelon in terms of income. 326 00:26:23.319 --> 00:26:27.480 So there are so many issues in history and so many current issues that that 327 00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:33.240 seem to um flow out of this this this um screening, and and hopefully 328 00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:37.599 it's important mentioned too as we stream. You know when we mentioned Nie, 329 00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:41.319 we're all Nyackers, can we still love our little town? But this streams 330 00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:45.839 beyond. And I think it's important you made the point and we're all making 331 00:26:45.880 --> 00:26:49.240 the point. This is just this is not unique to Nayak And I think 332 00:26:49.279 --> 00:26:53.079 you're making the point that if it can happen here, it can certainly happen 333 00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:57.640 anywhere. And it did. And I think that that's part of the message 334 00:26:59.599 --> 00:27:03.079 of the of the film, of the documentary, and guys, Craig and 335 00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:07.440 Atlis, I want you to speak on that, the message within that I 336 00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:12.119 saw that you know, they're so typically American, and I'm almost saying it's 337 00:27:12.160 --> 00:27:15.640 like surprised, but and I say it from the standpoint that you would be 338 00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:19.960 surprised it would happen to anyone, any one of our neighbors. Yet it 339 00:27:21.039 --> 00:27:25.480 did. And it didn't only happen here, It happened everywhere. Guys, 340 00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:26.920 at least Craig, take that a little bit. What what do you hope 341 00:27:26.920 --> 00:27:33.440 people will take from these interviews, these very honest and opening taking the specificity 342 00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:37.799 of it is it really works, you know, is that you know, 343 00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:41.640 listen to urban renewal and then the complications and challenges of urban renewal is a 344 00:27:41.799 --> 00:27:45.920 national anyone an international program. But the thing about this is this happened in 345 00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:51.559 our community, that this this was here, and it happened here. And 346 00:27:51.799 --> 00:27:56.799 the other thing I found interesting that when we had the premier screening, Yeah, 347 00:27:56.839 --> 00:28:02.240 it was like a white audience and usually an older white audience, but 348 00:28:02.359 --> 00:28:06.720 in many cases, in many ways, these are the stakeholders of a kind 349 00:28:06.759 --> 00:28:10.160 of reparation or things like that. And the thing I was stunned at was 350 00:28:10.400 --> 00:28:17.160 the concrete recommendations and suggestions that came from people and saying, maybe we should 351 00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:18.720 do attacks, maybe we should do this, what if we did this? 352 00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:23.359 I mean really in a community situation. They were coming up with very concrete 353 00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:30.759 suggestions on how to address this inequity that happened. So that was a really 354 00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:34.359 good thing and it was really good to see it come from this particular audience. 355 00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:44.559 I also have tremendous gratitude in a village like Nayak that is highly principled, 356 00:28:44.759 --> 00:28:48.799 that is getting in front of this issue and in front of this documentary 357 00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:55.240 and is acknowledging its past and how to learn from its past and not trying 358 00:28:55.279 --> 00:28:57.839 to just forget that this didn't happen. All the way from you know, 359 00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:03.000 Don Hammond to the trustees and all of that kind of stuff. Very you 360 00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:07.640 know, very very much in support of all of this, at least, 361 00:29:07.640 --> 00:29:11.440 what would you what would you add to that? You know, this is, 362 00:29:14.200 --> 00:29:18.720 as you said, this is an American problem. It persists in being 363 00:29:19.880 --> 00:29:30.000 a problem that has happened everywhere. And I think that the really important thing 364 00:29:30.200 --> 00:29:37.480 about telling the story specifically about Nyack and Craig. I hope you're right. 365 00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:45.160 I hope that actually the village will come together and actually be moved to start 366 00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:55.519 finding ways to create reparations of some sort for all of these families. But 367 00:29:55.640 --> 00:30:03.680 I think that one of the really important things for me is that we need 368 00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:11.519 to acknowledge that this happened not just to a group of people. This happened 369 00:30:11.599 --> 00:30:18.279 to individuals and their families. That it's so easy to lump things together and 370 00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:23.319 say, you know, this happened in you know, in this country, 371 00:30:23.359 --> 00:30:29.400 there was a war, this community was you know, this population was removed. 372 00:30:29.799 --> 00:30:37.960 These are individual people. The repercussions for what happened, our generational trauma 373 00:30:38.680 --> 00:30:49.920 and stealing generational wealth that cannot be easily recovered. And we have a tendency 374 00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:56.319 to say about things well that happened so long ago, which is a way 375 00:30:56.319 --> 00:31:02.319 of sort of dismissing people and their experience that we have to stop doing. 376 00:31:02.720 --> 00:31:06.039 It didn't happen so long ago, and it didn't happen to a group of 377 00:31:06.119 --> 00:31:10.880 people. It happened to this mother and this father who have a name, 378 00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:17.359 who had children who have lives and whose lives were upended. And that's the 379 00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:22.480 thing that I think that Rudy and Hakim Alem did so beautifully in this film 380 00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:30.720 was allowing these individuals to speak to their experience and their family experiences so we 381 00:31:30.759 --> 00:31:36.160 could stop divorcing ourselves in some way by saying, you know, this group 382 00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:41.079 of people who was you know, whose properties were, and then they just 383 00:31:41.119 --> 00:31:45.680 went away. You know, they didn't just go away. It's a perfect 384 00:31:45.680 --> 00:31:48.119 segue because you can't see because we just streamed audio now. But I do 385 00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:52.279 take little notes as we go along, and they made a little note to 386 00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:56.400 ask Bill, Bill, you lived it. Okay, we see it. 387 00:31:56.559 --> 00:32:00.920 We can create a film about it if you will, and support it, 388 00:32:00.359 --> 00:32:05.279 but you lived it. How do you feel about the film? How do 389 00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:07.839 you feel when you see the film? Like, as I said, of 390 00:32:07.960 --> 00:32:10.440 all of us, you were the one that experienced the most. You were 391 00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:15.880 literally there. Well, it was it was interesting because I've done a good 392 00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:22.000 deal of oral history and Nayak and I realized that, Um, there's two 393 00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:30.559 dynamics. One oftentimes, UM it's hard as compelling as it is to learn 394 00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:35.319 these facts. Like Alice said, they're traumatic to the people who lived through 395 00:32:35.359 --> 00:32:39.759 them. So it's it's something that you, um are kind of forced to 396 00:32:39.799 --> 00:32:45.359 relive. So there there is you know, a kind of a PTSD aspect. 397 00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:51.480 Yes, I could feel that very much. Um. There's a story 398 00:32:51.559 --> 00:33:00.880 that Lonnie Leonard tells about um uh the mortgage Uh the officer at a bank 399 00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:05.400 tearing up documents and throwing them in the trash and telling his father will never 400 00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:07.279 get Alane. You can see how devastating that was to the family, and 401 00:33:07.519 --> 00:33:12.359 it reverberated to the generations. In front of his father, that happened. 402 00:33:12.400 --> 00:33:14.640 I mean, it's just what happened. Yeah, in front of his father 403 00:33:15.279 --> 00:33:16.960 and and you know, his father was a vet and and you know, 404 00:33:19.079 --> 00:33:22.680 an incredible pillar in the community, and this is how he was treated. 405 00:33:22.759 --> 00:33:27.319 So so it's hard to get the nerve and it's hard to to to to 406 00:33:27.440 --> 00:33:30.680 share this. So when you once you do it, there's a certain kind 407 00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:38.079 of responsibility for them, you know, the person who takes this information and 408 00:33:38.079 --> 00:33:43.119 the artists that work with it. And I was just and normally I'm the 409 00:33:43.160 --> 00:33:46.599 person asking for these stories. So now I was telling stories about my grandmother 410 00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:52.240 and and and the pain that she suffered from being displaced. Um. You 411 00:33:52.279 --> 00:33:55.440 know, the family home that we lost was purchased in eighteen eighty three, 412 00:33:57.440 --> 00:34:04.440 so that's twenty years after black people in America were property. Um, this 413 00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:09.320 family managed somehow to acquire property, and that property was what was taken. 414 00:34:09.800 --> 00:34:15.000 So it really wasn't just brick and mortar and money, it was something. 415 00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:16.719 It was freedom. Actually, at one point, Barbara Williams says, it 416 00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:21.880 was your your ticket to freedom, and and that was what was stolen. 417 00:34:22.039 --> 00:34:28.280 So UM, I was just so h impressed and and and proud of of 418 00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:32.239 the document that um that Kima and Rudy put together. Um, you know, 419 00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:39.360 the story, the narrative structure of the film, or the interviews that 420 00:34:39.400 --> 00:34:45.039 they took, and they really did manage somehow to get us all to to 421 00:34:45.159 --> 00:34:50.119 go back in history and to go talking about At one point, UM, 422 00:34:50.559 --> 00:34:52.679 you know, Faith is talking about how she likes to go in the classroom 423 00:34:52.679 --> 00:34:57.360 and teach about black history. And then of course that is something that is 424 00:34:57.400 --> 00:35:00.760 being canceled. I mean, you know, Uh, people don't like cancel 425 00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:06.199 culture. Well, how the heck do you cancel American history? You know? 426 00:35:06.280 --> 00:35:09.119 So um and uh And then I was able to tell a story where 427 00:35:09.239 --> 00:35:13.719 I really began to learn more about urban renewal when I was in South Africa, 428 00:35:13.760 --> 00:35:16.400 and I learned that the South African government, when they were planning forced 429 00:35:16.440 --> 00:35:22.000 removals and apartheid, actually flew to the United States to study our slum clearance 430 00:35:22.039 --> 00:35:29.599 programs. So UM, I left. Uh you know the first time I 431 00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:35.440 saw it, UM, I left the Nike library. UM deeply moved and 432 00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:38.920 and and um and and and relieved. UM because it's such a you know, 433 00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:44.239 a burden and a responsibility to deal with this. And now I'm just 434 00:35:45.280 --> 00:35:50.920 very hopeful that UM we get we've gotten to such wonderful reactions. UM, 435 00:35:50.960 --> 00:35:55.000 people really want to help move this forward. UM, you know. And 436 00:35:55.199 --> 00:36:00.440 uh. And the last thing is, UM, their their cases around the 437 00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:05.800 country now in Palm Springs, a lot in California where communities are formally formally 438 00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:12.159 requesting apologies and reparations and and and commission. So um, I think this 439 00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:16.199 is the timing of this is wonderful and the product is perfect. Well, 440 00:36:19.320 --> 00:36:21.639 yeah, I just want to on the spot about what we're going to do 441 00:36:21.679 --> 00:36:24.159 with this, Joe. But I's going to add on to that is that 442 00:36:24.719 --> 00:36:34.559 I think that what is so deeply affecting about how the story is told is 443 00:36:34.599 --> 00:36:43.119 that because this is people's lived experiences, there isn't there isn't an argument here. 444 00:36:43.880 --> 00:36:47.000 You can't argue. You can't say to somebody, I don't agree with 445 00:36:47.079 --> 00:36:52.039 your lived experience. I don't agree with this. It's not you know, 446 00:36:52.159 --> 00:36:57.440 this is not a matter of a political ideology or anything else. This is 447 00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:01.280 people's lived experiences, and you can't there's no argument here. You can't say, 448 00:37:01.320 --> 00:37:07.559 oh no, you know you didn't you don't feel that way. These 449 00:37:07.559 --> 00:37:13.199 are lived experiences. They are they kind of I hope I know they do 450 00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:16.599 for me, but I'm I'm on the empathetic scale of things, but they 451 00:37:17.039 --> 00:37:25.480 kind of like break my heart open, like extremely is the the depth of 452 00:37:25.920 --> 00:37:30.400 sharing of all of your story as a Bill and Barbara and Lonnie and faith 453 00:37:31.079 --> 00:37:39.280 and the the intimacy and the vulnerability actually of sharing that because that is that 454 00:37:39.480 --> 00:37:47.679 is trauma, and that is you know, PTSD inducing to when people see 455 00:37:47.719 --> 00:37:51.679 the interviews and they should see this documentary. And I'm gonna ask Craig what 456 00:37:52.159 --> 00:37:54.800 would be the next step? People should see this, Everyone should see this, 457 00:37:54.880 --> 00:37:59.559 and I you know, I'm I use social media promote and I said, 458 00:37:59.599 --> 00:38:02.559 you know, yakers, every Nayakers should see this, but every American 459 00:38:04.119 --> 00:38:06.880 should see this story. So how are we going to do that? Craig, 460 00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:09.440 What's what's next for this documentary? What would you like to see? 461 00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:14.679 I will just add one thing well talking about it, but the artistry of 462 00:38:15.079 --> 00:38:20.239 how they put this film together is there's no narration. This is only only 463 00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:24.400 the stories of the people who lived in so there's no agenda here. So 464 00:38:24.679 --> 00:38:30.519 you know that that that that comes to clearly and then and it is very 465 00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:35.159 moving. And when we were watching a rough cut in our house, we 466 00:38:35.440 --> 00:38:37.800 were looking at it and I said to Rudy. Rudy and Hakima said, 467 00:38:37.840 --> 00:38:42.880 we need to put a monetary value on this because people are going to say, 468 00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:45.519 oh, this is really sad. This is very emotional, it's a 469 00:38:45.519 --> 00:38:49.000 psychologically very different and then some people will respond to that. And then but 470 00:38:49.039 --> 00:38:52.239 then there's a whole group of people who when you talk, when you have 471 00:38:52.440 --> 00:38:58.960 the actual monetary generational wealth that was stolen from these people, it can hit 472 00:38:59.039 --> 00:39:01.960 you like a s in the stomach. And that's exactly and that's exactly what 473 00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:07.320 this is. And our calculations on this is between thirty and forty million dollars 474 00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:10.320 which were lost from these families. And then when we talk about affirmative action, 475 00:39:10.679 --> 00:39:16.039 you know, affirmative action is is a grain of sand in the barricade 476 00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:22.559 against education inequities. And now we get rid of that. And so the 477 00:39:22.599 --> 00:39:28.440 most little thing is too much and and and these families that were in Niake, 478 00:39:28.519 --> 00:39:32.639 in our own community lost millions of dollars and and and their children could 479 00:39:32.679 --> 00:39:36.840 have gone to these you know, these elite colleges or at least had the 480 00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:39.400 an access to it, and that access has taken away. And then the 481 00:39:39.400 --> 00:39:45.599 Supreme Court turns around and does this. It's it's ridiculous. After the break, 482 00:39:45.639 --> 00:39:49.320 we have Wilbur Aldridge from the NUBACP is going to come. We're gonna 483 00:39:49.320 --> 00:39:52.480 talk about that because it's it's still happening. You know, it's so funny 484 00:39:52.480 --> 00:39:57.400 we spent to thirty five minutes or so speaking about a film from the sixties 485 00:39:57.440 --> 00:40:00.159 and yet in its own way, it still had happening. I think that's 486 00:40:00.280 --> 00:40:06.280 part of the of the point of the film. So tomorrow night, the 487 00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:09.880 seventh, correct and to Nayak Center eight pm. Is there any other way 488 00:40:10.039 --> 00:40:15.239 people can see the film? Will it eventually be streamed on any kind of 489 00:40:15.280 --> 00:40:17.320 surface, because not everybody lives at Nyack or can get to the film, 490 00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:22.320 but they need to see it. What happened to Jackson Avenue a story of 491 00:40:22.480 --> 00:40:25.199 urban renewal. How do we get it to them? Well, we're still 492 00:40:25.239 --> 00:40:30.760 working on the what is next and what the next steps are and how that 493 00:40:30.880 --> 00:40:39.400 happens for many different reasons, including for the filmmakers themselves. But our hope 494 00:40:39.519 --> 00:40:46.480 is that the film will be seen widely, that it will at some point 495 00:40:46.519 --> 00:40:51.679 be able to be streamed. UM. So this is you know, these 496 00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:59.440 are the first two screamings that have been um have happened. And by the 497 00:40:59.480 --> 00:41:01.920 way, we're very close to being sold out for the second screening as well, 498 00:41:02.039 --> 00:41:08.760 So people do one you know, people certainly in the community do want 499 00:41:08.800 --> 00:41:12.960 to see it, and we we do think that it should be more widely 500 00:41:13.000 --> 00:41:15.960 seen. So, um, the best thing I can say is, you 501 00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:19.880 know, we're all staying tuned to this space as we figure out all of 502 00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:25.039 the next steps as to as to what happens with the film. Greig last 503 00:41:25.079 --> 00:41:29.480 thoughts. We have a minute or two left last some last thoughts here. 504 00:41:29.840 --> 00:41:32.480 I think I think at some point, you know, well most likely will 505 00:41:32.519 --> 00:41:37.920 be streaming. We're talking to some distributed We haven't made movies before, you 506 00:41:37.960 --> 00:41:40.119 know, so we're new at this and uh. And and then there's been 507 00:41:40.159 --> 00:41:44.119 some interest in distribution and things like that, and you know, and streaming 508 00:41:44.360 --> 00:41:46.840 interferes with with your ability to do that. So we're trying to be smart 509 00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:51.039 at the same time, so trying to make the right decision along the line. 510 00:41:51.320 --> 00:41:57.719 But we want people to see this. Uh. And we were so 511 00:41:58.800 --> 00:42:07.039 pleasantly surprised at the quality of this documentary. And certainly it is a reflection 512 00:42:07.280 --> 00:42:13.039 on you know, Bill and Aleases and everyone's part that their their their passion 513 00:42:13.400 --> 00:42:16.159 about telling these stories and these stories they need to be told. These are 514 00:42:16.199 --> 00:42:20.800 old These are old people. Some of them are in their eighties somewhere in 515 00:42:20.840 --> 00:42:22.960 their nineties, and so as Bill said, you know at one point and 516 00:42:23.000 --> 00:42:25.719 said, we can't waste time. We need to move forward with this and 517 00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:30.159 make sure we capture this. So you know, we we record, we 518 00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:32.119 reveal, and we hope that we preserve. I mean that that that that's 519 00:42:32.119 --> 00:42:35.840 what we're trying to do with this. Yeah, but I do want to 520 00:42:35.880 --> 00:42:39.840 give all kudos to Ridi Goal and Hakima Alm in terms of the filmmaking, 521 00:42:39.960 --> 00:42:49.000 because that was you know, I think that we had an amazing group of 522 00:42:49.320 --> 00:42:57.639 storytellers who are the interviewees um to tell their story and then really um very 523 00:42:57.920 --> 00:43:04.960 sensitive and art beautifully executed filmmakers to do this, and then you know, 524 00:43:05.039 --> 00:43:07.840 and then you know, the only thing, honestly, the only thing I 525 00:43:07.880 --> 00:43:13.559 really had brought to this is my desire that the story should be told and 526 00:43:14.119 --> 00:43:17.559 out of nothing, because you know, I've said this before, we're theater 527 00:43:17.679 --> 00:43:22.000 makers, and we didn't have a budget or anything like that for making a 528 00:43:22.039 --> 00:43:24.519 movie. We're going to be paying for this for a long time. This 529 00:43:24.599 --> 00:43:28.599 is not you know, it wasn't like I went, oh and this theater 530 00:43:28.679 --> 00:43:31.519 season. I also happened to be doing a documentary and I budgeted for that 531 00:43:31.639 --> 00:43:37.079 it didn't happen that way. It really was Bill standing in the parking lot 532 00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:43.239 saying this is where my family home was, and learning about that, and 533 00:43:43.280 --> 00:43:50.599 then seeing the talk at the Naiack Library that was recorded. It just had 534 00:43:50.639 --> 00:43:52.920 to be done, that's all. And if it wasn't us, then you 535 00:43:52.960 --> 00:43:55.280 know, it's that thing, if you know, if not me, then 536 00:43:55.360 --> 00:43:59.800 who? And if not now, then when? And it was that sit 537 00:44:00.679 --> 00:44:06.320 So yeah, thoughts, I've got about a minute. Yeah, I um 538 00:44:06.559 --> 00:44:09.679 uh want people to see this. I know that the people have been making 539 00:44:10.320 --> 00:44:15.000 wonderful offers of support and trying to figure out a way to get it into 540 00:44:15.039 --> 00:44:21.559 schools and get um, you know screenings um uh you know, discount tickets 541 00:44:21.800 --> 00:44:28.400 for those um uh. I just urged people to um to meet you know, 542 00:44:28.480 --> 00:44:32.159 Lonnie, faith Um, Barbara other people you're actually never going to forget. 543 00:44:32.199 --> 00:44:35.559 I think, I think, I don't know if people agree, but 544 00:44:35.599 --> 00:44:40.880 I think the breakout performance was Lonnie Buster Leonard. He's amazing. He loves 545 00:44:40.960 --> 00:44:45.639 Nak and he looses Nayak and you'll never forget him once you meet him. 546 00:44:45.719 --> 00:44:49.119 And I believe he's going to be at the screening um tomorrow night, So 547 00:44:49.320 --> 00:44:53.000 come down and and and enjoy the film and and UM and we'll we'll make 548 00:44:53.039 --> 00:44:58.880 sure that more and more people learn what happened to Jackson Avenue and um and 549 00:44:59.079 --> 00:45:05.960 for anybody who suffered from urban renewal will be a part of finding a way 550 00:45:05.960 --> 00:45:09.960 forward and finding the truth of what happened and finding some reconciliation. Craig and 551 00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:15.280 Elise, Uh, we didn't even get to talk about the Phoenix the summer. 552 00:45:15.440 --> 00:45:20.559 That's another show, a whole another show. Thank you, thanks for 553 00:45:20.559 --> 00:45:23.880 the teeth. Bill exactly got you guys, got you guys for another show. 554 00:45:24.400 --> 00:45:27.519 Uh, We've got to take a quick break. I want to thank 555 00:45:27.519 --> 00:45:31.360 you so much, Craig Elise. Bill please expressed to Hakima and Rudy what 556 00:45:31.400 --> 00:45:35.719 a fabulous job it is. I hope to meet them someday, maybe tomorrow 557 00:45:35.800 --> 00:45:38.199 night. I will see you guys there. I look forward to meeting some 558 00:45:38.280 --> 00:45:43.559 of the other participants in the film and it will be certainly my pleasure. 559 00:45:43.840 --> 00:45:45.360 Got to go for a quick break. Will we come back? And I 560 00:45:45.440 --> 00:45:49.920 just got to call Wilbur. Wilbur is calling. I'm just answered. It's 561 00:45:49.960 --> 00:45:53.039 called Wilbur. Will be with you just one minute after this commercial break. 562 00:45:53.079 --> 00:45:58.679 We're going to break right now when we come back, it's so relative. 563 00:45:58.719 --> 00:46:01.000 It's just scary how that work works out. Sometimes we're gonna talk a little 564 00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:07.079 bit about the Supreme Court's decision on affirmative Action with the n double ACPs Wilbur 565 00:46:07.159 --> 00:46:09.719 Aldress. In just one minute, Tom your host Frank Lagono. We've got 566 00:46:09.719 --> 00:46:13.400 a little bit more to go with this great show. To uncle anywhere yet, 567 00:46:13.599 --> 00:46:17.480 We'll be back. Hudson River Radio dot com. Bring a dash of 568 00:46:17.559 --> 00:46:22.880 green into your life. Check out the Many Shades of Green with Maxine, 569 00:46:22.920 --> 00:46:28.400 Margot, Reuben and Malcolm Burman. Get informed about environmental issues and current events 570 00:46:28.480 --> 00:46:32.000 that affect us all. Pick a shade of green and raise your eco consciousness 571 00:46:32.199 --> 00:46:37.800 with the Many Shades of Green. Available on Apple Podcasts, iHeart, Spotify, 572 00:46:38.199 --> 00:46:50.079 or wherever you get your podcasts. Hudson River Radio dot com. This 573 00:46:50.320 --> 00:46:57.400 is Hudson River Radio dot com, your local Rockland County station. Be sure 574 00:46:57.440 --> 00:47:00.960 to check out another one of our podcasts, Big Jim Wheelers Classic Radio Theater. 575 00:47:01.480 --> 00:47:07.320 It features historic radio shows from the nineteen thirties through the nineteen sixties, 576 00:47:07.559 --> 00:47:12.840 including Dragnet, Gunsmoke, the Shadow, and tons of other classic hits. 577 00:47:13.320 --> 00:47:19.079 Check out Big Jim Wheelers Classic Radio Theater on Apple Podcasts, iHeart, Spotify 578 00:47:19.280 --> 00:47:28.440 or wherever you get your podcasts. Hudson River Radio dot com. Welcome back 579 00:47:28.480 --> 00:47:31.440 to being Frank Ware. The best way to be is Frank. I'm your 580 00:47:31.440 --> 00:47:35.440 host, Frank Labono. Thank you once again for joining us. We just 581 00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:39.880 finished a great conversation with the creators of a wonderful new documentary called What Happened 582 00:47:39.920 --> 00:47:45.039 to Jackson Avenue, a story of urban renewal, and as part of it, 583 00:47:45.079 --> 00:47:47.360 one of our guests, Craig Smith, one of the executive producers, 584 00:47:47.400 --> 00:47:53.679 brought up the recent Supreme Court decision which basically cancels affirmative action, and he 585 00:47:53.760 --> 00:47:59.599 said, my god, affirmative action is a grain assault to try to make 586 00:47:59.639 --> 00:48:05.159 good on what has happened to African Americans, blacks in this country and even 587 00:48:05.199 --> 00:48:10.000 in a progressive place like Nayak in plain English. And I'm a plain speaker, 588 00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:15.000 and my guest, as a plain speaker that got screwed again. I 589 00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:19.119 guess there's kind of no other way to put it as being Frank as I 590 00:48:19.119 --> 00:48:22.440 can possibly be. So without further ado, let me welcome back to the 591 00:48:22.480 --> 00:48:28.320 show. One of my favorite guests from the n Double ACP, mister Wilbur 592 00:48:28.400 --> 00:48:32.039 Aldridge Wilburg, thank you once again for joining us. Your honest, intelligent 593 00:48:32.119 --> 00:48:38.239 conversation is always appreciated here. Well, thank you for having me, and 594 00:48:38.320 --> 00:48:44.960 i'd rather long winded introduction. We talked a little bit about urban renewal, 595 00:48:45.079 --> 00:48:52.519 which used eminent domain to destroy any equity that most black families might have had 596 00:48:52.639 --> 00:48:58.039 this point. So affirmative action was an effort at one time to try to 597 00:48:58.159 --> 00:49:02.280 level the playing field little bit at least, and now it's gone. What 598 00:49:02.320 --> 00:49:10.199 are your thoughts? My thoughts is an absolute sad day in America. The 599 00:49:10.320 --> 00:49:19.599 purpose of affirmative action was always and still is until they decided to sludge hammer 600 00:49:19.639 --> 00:49:25.760 it. The purpose was to ensure equity and education so that people of color, 601 00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:34.119 specifically black people, would be able to become self sufficient and navigate the 602 00:49:34.239 --> 00:49:39.960 system intelligently and qualify for positions. That was the sole purpose of affirmative action. 603 00:49:42.079 --> 00:49:45.719 To be honest, the people person who really who people who got the 604 00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:52.320 most out of affirmative action on all levels, It was white women. You 605 00:49:52.400 --> 00:49:57.480 know, black's benefited, yes, but it was white women that really benefited 606 00:49:57.559 --> 00:50:06.199 from it. I yes, the Supreme Court or especially Clarence Thomas for some 607 00:50:06.239 --> 00:50:13.920 reason, that there was there is now equity as far as educational opportunities is 608 00:50:13.960 --> 00:50:20.519 concerned, and that systemic racism does not exist. Well, let's again finish 609 00:50:20.559 --> 00:50:22.920 your point. I'm sorry, we'll go. Didn't mentioned interruption. I was 610 00:50:22.960 --> 00:50:28.519 just going to say that for most people, most people in this country knows 611 00:50:28.559 --> 00:50:32.239 that that's not the case, and education has always been the key to getting 612 00:50:32.280 --> 00:50:39.599 out of poverty, getting out of our eliminating racist activity, and affirm that 613 00:50:39.679 --> 00:50:44.639 was the purpose of affirmative action too, so the people would be reporting on 614 00:50:44.679 --> 00:50:49.000 what they were doing. So there was some oversight. Well, you mentioned 615 00:50:49.039 --> 00:50:53.559 Clarence Thomas was at least a controversial figure at the very least, but the 616 00:50:53.599 --> 00:51:00.480 only black man on the Supreme Court and yet voted to And I would think 617 00:51:00.519 --> 00:51:05.559 at some point in his life, although I'm sure he's brilliant in his own 618 00:51:05.599 --> 00:51:09.519 way, he must have been a brilliant student and earned honors that way. 619 00:51:09.719 --> 00:51:15.400 But I'm sure at some point in his life there must have been someone who 620 00:51:15.519 --> 00:51:20.679 supported him as a black man. And yet in a sense he's turned his 621 00:51:20.800 --> 00:51:24.199 back if he will on other blacks. What what what? What is your 622 00:51:24.199 --> 00:51:28.559 feeling as a black man for someone who says well, I made it, 623 00:51:28.559 --> 00:51:30.119 well, I did it, you know, by the and that's often you 624 00:51:30.239 --> 00:51:34.400 here with many people and people not of means and say, well, nobody 625 00:51:34.400 --> 00:51:37.079 helped me. I had to do it all on my own, and blah 626 00:51:37.159 --> 00:51:39.280 blah blah, what are your thoughts? He doesn't even say that. He 627 00:51:39.400 --> 00:51:45.719 says that he benefited from affirmative action, however, it was the worst day 628 00:51:45.719 --> 00:51:51.039 of his life, right, and that he felt that that diminished the quality 629 00:51:51.239 --> 00:51:55.119 or the feeling or the thought of his Harvard degree. Right. I mean, 630 00:51:55.159 --> 00:51:59.880 I don't know anyone else that has that opinion other than him. And 631 00:52:00.039 --> 00:52:05.280 listen, everybody that looks like me and whose skin colors like me does not 632 00:52:05.559 --> 00:52:10.519 feel like me. That's an important point to make. You know. We 633 00:52:10.639 --> 00:52:15.000 tend to think of things in groups of people sometimes as homogeneous, but that's 634 00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:19.719 not necessarily the case. So it will elaborate on that a little bit. 635 00:52:20.360 --> 00:52:24.800 Well, it depends upon the individual. There are some people who feel I've 636 00:52:24.840 --> 00:52:30.679 benefited from affirmative action. You know. I went to Fareleigh Dickinson University in 637 00:52:30.440 --> 00:52:35.440 seventy three. That was not the time that there were a There was a 638 00:52:35.480 --> 00:52:42.039 total of fifteen African Americans on campus. The Fareley Dickinson University of Tena campus. 639 00:52:42.079 --> 00:52:46.159 Now, obviously New Jersey is full of people of color, but that 640 00:52:46.360 --> 00:52:52.559 wasn't an option for many of them at that time. So there were there. 641 00:52:52.639 --> 00:52:57.280 Yes, it opened doors, but you had to perform in order to 642 00:52:57.320 --> 00:53:01.039 stay there. So it's not a case so if anyone was giving you anything 643 00:53:01.400 --> 00:53:07.239 other than an opportunity. Once you got the opportunity, then you had to 644 00:53:07.280 --> 00:53:14.800 demonstrate your ability to achieve within that. That goes be an education or employment. 645 00:53:15.679 --> 00:53:17.960 It's still the same thing. I want to talk a little bit about 646 00:53:17.960 --> 00:53:22.880 things on a personal level. And you mentioned at f tou in seventy three, 647 00:53:22.880 --> 00:53:24.519 and I'm you know, in Teaneck. I'm from Fort Lee, so 648 00:53:24.599 --> 00:53:28.800 it was familiar a little bit with the campus, and I'm sure there were 649 00:53:28.800 --> 00:53:34.039 not many blacks on the campus at Fairleigh Dickinson, especially at that time. 650 00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:37.760 What is that like, Wilburt. I know, when I'm in a situation, 651 00:53:37.800 --> 00:53:40.440 when I'm when it's reversed and I'm in the minority, always try to 652 00:53:40.480 --> 00:53:45.079 feel comfortable, but it can be a little bit of a strange situation. 653 00:53:45.320 --> 00:53:50.960 I think people need to understand in an environment like that, what is it 654 00:53:51.039 --> 00:53:54.840 like? It can be. It can be difficult for some people depending upon 655 00:53:54.960 --> 00:54:00.079 who you who you're dealing with, and who you're around. Fortunately, for 656 00:54:00.199 --> 00:54:05.039 me, the people some of my best friends even today are people that I 657 00:54:05.079 --> 00:54:07.880 went to school with a Fareleigh Dickinson, who don't look like me, not 658 00:54:08.039 --> 00:54:14.960 even of the same religion as me. But there was there was a camaraderie 659 00:54:15.039 --> 00:54:20.000 that you developed on campus that kind of superseded the color. Where they were 660 00:54:20.079 --> 00:54:24.480 learning from me, and I was certainly learning about them from them, both 661 00:54:24.599 --> 00:54:31.639 on a cultural basis as well as a religious basis. So there it was 662 00:54:31.679 --> 00:54:37.440 one of the better things that probably happened to me in life because at that 663 00:54:37.639 --> 00:54:40.960 coming from the South, I had not been around white people. You know, 664 00:54:42.039 --> 00:54:45.679 that wasn't that wasn't what I had done, and the experiences that I 665 00:54:45.760 --> 00:54:52.639 had or knew about people that did not look like me were negative experiences. 666 00:54:53.039 --> 00:54:59.159 Now I finished, I graduated high school in sixty four, so I didn't 667 00:54:59.159 --> 00:55:04.880 go to fair I went to Rockland Community College prior to that, but I 668 00:55:04.920 --> 00:55:08.039 worked at Let's Where Village during that time, and even then, I would 669 00:55:08.119 --> 00:55:15.000 say the experiences with many of the white people there were superficial. You know, 670 00:55:15.079 --> 00:55:17.559 it was nice, but you knew you felt as if it was a 671 00:55:17.639 --> 00:55:23.719 force niceness and discrimination was certainly prevalent during that time. I mean, you 672 00:55:23.719 --> 00:55:30.519 didn't have an administrative of color, let's where philis during that time. So 673 00:55:30.679 --> 00:55:35.559 going in to family, I began to see that there was some genuine people 674 00:55:35.960 --> 00:55:38.280 on the other side of the track, so to speak. You know, 675 00:55:39.119 --> 00:55:43.079 one last point, well Burn, You know, I heard a very interesting 676 00:55:43.239 --> 00:55:47.840 point made by one pundit that nobody really picked up about affirmative action, that 677 00:55:47.920 --> 00:55:54.519 it not only benefits students of color, it benefits all students by increasing diversity. 678 00:55:55.000 --> 00:56:00.639 So that, you know, you mentioned exposure to different cultures again, 679 00:56:00.719 --> 00:56:05.840 I went to I'll never forget. I went to Lily white virtually Fortley High 680 00:56:05.840 --> 00:56:08.840 School, and then I went to Rutgers in Newark and played football there with 681 00:56:08.920 --> 00:56:15.960 black men. It was an experience literally, physically, spiritually, emotionally. 682 00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:19.039 I had never been, as you had mentioned, ever, never been about 683 00:56:19.039 --> 00:56:23.440 white around white people. I had never been around black people before, and 684 00:56:24.079 --> 00:56:29.000 just in generalism sort of see certain habits and cultural things, how they shared 685 00:56:29.079 --> 00:56:34.440 with one another was fascinating to me. So it enriched me as well as 686 00:56:34.519 --> 00:56:37.639 others, And that point somehow gets missed. Total thoughts on that. Well, 687 00:56:37.719 --> 00:56:40.639 that's another thing that you just hit the nail on the head when you 688 00:56:40.679 --> 00:56:46.239 mentioned diversity. That's one of the things that affirmative action did. It provided 689 00:56:46.679 --> 00:56:53.760 diversity, equity, and inclusion. It was a main road to get those 690 00:56:53.800 --> 00:57:00.480 things started, so that once it was started, people then began to perform 691 00:57:00.480 --> 00:57:06.440 in a manner in which other people saw that the people were not so much 692 00:57:06.480 --> 00:57:09.599 different. We had more things in common than we had not in common. 693 00:57:10.400 --> 00:57:17.800 We had more The intelligence level was not substandard. It was in most instances 694 00:57:17.840 --> 00:57:25.119 equal in most instances. Now I'm referring to after the college education. It 695 00:57:25.320 --> 00:57:30.320 always amazed me when I first after that first finished college and I started this 696 00:57:30.360 --> 00:57:35.199 work and I would go speak, people would say, oh, you speak 697 00:57:35.280 --> 00:57:40.920 so intelligently, which, in essence said to me, you really expected me 698 00:57:42.079 --> 00:57:45.679 to be I guess, illiterate, or or to speak unintelligently. I guess 699 00:57:46.039 --> 00:57:51.519 I'm not sure what they expected, but obviously it wasn't that I would be 700 00:57:51.679 --> 00:57:55.800 speaking as anyone else would speak. So that was one of the things. 701 00:57:55.800 --> 00:58:00.920 So, I mean, there are many many ways affirmative action has change this 702 00:58:00.119 --> 00:58:05.920 country for the better. So to strike it down and essence puts us back 703 00:58:06.159 --> 00:58:10.519 to where we were. I remember part of initially an affirmative action. I 704 00:58:10.599 --> 00:58:17.400 worked in human resources, and human resources we had to report on the number 705 00:58:17.440 --> 00:58:25.320 of hires based upon race. It was done by observing people and therefore figuring 706 00:58:25.360 --> 00:58:30.039 out what race they were, and in some instances that was more difficult than 707 00:58:30.079 --> 00:58:34.760 you would think, but then it was reported, so there was a It 708 00:58:34.840 --> 00:58:38.840 was as if Big brothers watching to make sure that you are employing all kinds 709 00:58:38.920 --> 00:58:44.920 of people and not people that just looked like one in particular group. That's 710 00:58:44.920 --> 00:58:50.679 a good thing, excellent. When I left, When I left human Resources 711 00:58:50.679 --> 00:58:55.800 and went into other areas, at some point that part of affirmative action was 712 00:58:57.039 --> 00:59:04.920 also stopped, So the reporting was stopped when I left. I'll say Luxworth 713 00:59:04.960 --> 00:59:10.880 Village for an example. When I left there, the management level of Luxworth 714 00:59:12.000 --> 00:59:17.760 Village was extremely diversed. Any kind of name, a person of nic culture 715 00:59:19.079 --> 00:59:22.880 and you could find it there, or any race you could find it there. 716 00:59:23.760 --> 00:59:32.960 Within eight years that totally had dissipated to as of today it is completely 717 00:59:34.360 --> 00:59:45.000 quite again. So there is a tendency to revert back to what was instead 718 00:59:45.039 --> 00:59:49.480 of continuing forward. One of the things that the NAACP is doing. And 719 00:59:49.480 --> 00:59:55.199 we had a national call to action meeting last week after this was done fact 720 00:59:55.280 --> 00:59:59.719 the night, the day, the next day, and in that meeting we 721 00:59:59.760 --> 01:00:06.039 are we have been asked to contact all of the educational institutions that we deal 722 01:00:06.079 --> 01:00:12.559 with on a local basis and ask them to sign on sign a petition that 723 01:00:12.719 --> 01:00:20.679 they will continue to push diversity, equity and inclusion in their institutions. That's 724 01:00:20.760 --> 01:00:28.400 from public education to private education as far and as well as colleges is concerned. 725 01:00:29.400 --> 01:00:31.159 Well, that's the least we can do at this point. Will We're 726 01:00:31.199 --> 01:00:36.760 Aldred. You're always welcome here on being frank, your your intelligent conversation is 727 01:00:36.800 --> 01:00:39.719 always welcome. I want to thank you for joining us. Oh, thank 728 01:00:39.719 --> 01:00:43.559 you, thank you again to this opportunity. I'm sad that I have to 729 01:00:43.599 --> 01:00:46.440 be talking about you know, I mean, we're just talking about celebration and 730 01:00:46.760 --> 01:00:52.159 Juneteenth, and a few weeks later here we're back to square one. I 731 01:00:52.280 --> 01:00:54.199 let what people talk about the good old days, Well, the old days 732 01:00:54.239 --> 01:00:57.960 may not have been all that good. When you're stopping you, well, 733 01:00:58.039 --> 01:01:00.559 actually it may be better than the days that comment. So I don't know, 734 01:01:00.800 --> 01:01:05.639 there's a little bit of a bit of a scary thought that will have 735 01:01:05.679 --> 01:01:08.360 to live. We'll have to leave it it there. You know, I'd 736 01:01:08.400 --> 01:01:12.400 like to thank Neil Richter of course, the mailman, our engineer, you 737 01:01:12.440 --> 01:01:15.880 know, he drives the bus, he gets us to our destination where we 738 01:01:15.920 --> 01:01:19.320 need to be. But of course, our most special thanks to our listeners 739 01:01:19.559 --> 01:01:22.000 who take the time to give us a voice in their lives. Remember we 740 01:01:22.039 --> 01:01:27.360 offer a fresh topic every week and you can catch us wherever and whenever you 741 01:01:27.440 --> 01:01:31.280 get your favorite podcasts, Apple, Spotify, iHeart Speaker and more. You 742 01:01:31.320 --> 01:01:36.920 can check us out on the Hudson River Radio Facebook page or Hudson River Radio 743 01:01:37.039 --> 01:01:39.440 dot com. Click on Being Frank and you can listen to any show. 744 01:01:39.719 --> 01:01:43.760 Of course, at the end of every program, I like to leave you 745 01:01:43.800 --> 01:01:47.119 with what I like to call two nuggets, and I think Wilbur and our 746 01:01:47.159 --> 01:01:52.880 first guests will appreciate this. It's from Frederick Douglas. Where justice is denied, 747 01:01:53.480 --> 01:01:59.920 where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class 748 01:02:00.159 --> 01:02:05.960 is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to impress, rob and 749 01:02:06.039 --> 01:02:12.440 degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe. So there's there's still 750 01:02:12.440 --> 01:02:15.119 work to be done. But We've got some good music to leave you with 751 01:02:15.199 --> 01:02:16.639 from a good friend of mine, a co worker, former co worker. 752 01:02:16.679 --> 01:02:20.760 I'm retired now. I brag about that all the time because I like it. 753 01:02:22.280 --> 01:02:24.719 He was a co worker, is also a terrific musician. His album 754 01:02:24.840 --> 01:02:28.920 is a World Like This and it's a really cool rock and roll song called 755 01:02:29.199 --> 01:02:35.000 American Standardsville. I'm your host. Thank you watching for I'll get it right, 756 01:02:35.119 --> 01:02:37.920 hold on, I got it gay, slow down right, I'm gonna 757 01:02:37.159 --> 01:02:40.039 I'm not gonna say viewers. I'm gonna say listeners. Neil, I see 758 01:02:40.280 --> 01:02:43.719 you can't see him, but I can see him smiling. I just got 759 01:02:43.760 --> 01:02:49.480 the thumbs up. How close Now. I want to thank everyone for listening 760 01:02:49.519 --> 01:02:52.760 to be Frank. I'm your host, Frank Lebaro. We'll see you next 761 01:02:52.760 --> 01:03:34.159 week. One drown. What you see in my eyes? Tell me that 762 01:03:34.360 --> 01:03:47.159 it's not a life I was behind. It's fun down, it's the bed. 763 01:03:52.760 --> 01:03:59.320 Something's got to change, something's got to change in my life. The 764 01:03:59.519 --> 01:04:06.760 Summit's gotta change. Something that's gotta change in my life. Someone's gotta change. 765 01:04:06.840 --> 01:04:16.639 And reading the same my life, in my life, in my life, 766 01:04:18.920 --> 01:04:29.199 I can see flash in your eyes. Drop down like that, by 767 01:04:29.480 --> 01:04:42.480 desire. But I am a million mouths from your work under sky. That's 768 01:04:42.519 --> 01:04:49.960 a dressed him by. Someone's gotta change. Something's gotta change in my life. 769 01:04:53.800 --> 01:05:00.400 Something's gotta change. Something that's gotta change in my life. Someone's got 770 01:05:00.400 --> 01:05:06.000 to change. Every is the same in my life and my life, in 771 01:05:06.320 --> 01:05:45.800 my life and my life and my life. Someone's got to change. Someone's 772 01:05:45.840 --> 01:05:53.920 got to change in my life. Someone's got to change. Something's got to 773 01:05:54.039 --> 01:06:01.159 change in my life. Someone's got to change. I decided in my life 774 01:06:01.679 --> 01:06:42.920 and my life and my life, my life, my life. Hells turn 775 01:06:43.920 --> 01:06:56.880 pavement, come to deny. He has glittered with denial. She yes, 776 01:06:57.639 --> 01:07:11.840 I haven't change. To change it to Someone's got to change. Something's got 777 01:07:11.960 --> 01:07:18.800 to change in my life. Someone's gotta change. Something's gotta change in my 778 01:07:18.880 --> 01:07:28.599 life. Someone's gotta change. Everything the same in my life and my life 779 01:07:29.159 --> 01:08:09.920 and my life, in my life, in my life. This is Hudson 780 01:08:10.039 --> 01:08:12.760 River Radio dot com.