What is krack Lakin Fellow thermonuclear a efforts. I am Dan Pavalley, joined
by my certified fantabulist, perpetually loyal co host Grant Hughes. We're here to
talk NBA playoffs, Nick Nurse going live on a Friday, just to get
this out there a little. It's not a bonus pod, but it's we
don't really record on Friday's ever, because everything's outdated. No one listens to
podcast over the weekend. We're trusting you are loyal, lovely listeners that you're
going to download this episode anyway before we get started, though, How are
you doing, Grant super good? We're in playoff mode and hence the Friday
podcast. We just you know, we worked twice as hard. But also
it's shorts weather here in California. Dan, We got a high of eighty
one today, which makes my move would go like through the roof because we've
had a shitty, extra long winter, and I am very happy that the
sun is out and we're in the middle of the playoffs, so or in
the middle of the first round, so all good things, all good things
right now. It's shorts weather here in New York as well too. And
I am wearing shorts, but I'm still wearing a sweat because I just get
cold all the time in my house. But I am miss ecstatic as well.
I'm super good, as you put it, not only because I'm joined
by you, but I am living in a raccoon free environment. Are we
gonna okay? I wasn't gonna bring it up. I'm so glad we had
Dan, Dan, can we talk about the raccoons? We're still waiting for
people to trickle in here, and so I feel like we're too business business
eye anyway, sometimes we're like, we don't talk about Some people don't like
long intros, but fuck it at this point. So I recently moved into
a house. I purchased it. I understand that I'm very lucky and that
I was probably also a stupid decision when you look at the market. YadA,
YadA, YadA. We closed in November. We had an inspection,
everything turned out fine. About a month ago, we heard some noise in
the ceiling from the first floor, and then our dogs on the second floor
started like they were tracking something in the floor. So clearly something's going on,
and never a good sign. Never a good sign, right, and
so we call, we are recommended to somebody who had his own company.
He comes and says, oh, you have a squirrel. I can see
a little hole in your attic. I will catch him or them, set
them free, and like you'll be done with this. But we have to
leave the hole open because you want them, if they're in the house,
to be able to get out. And if you do close up the hole,
then you're gonna either have a dead animal in your house or they'll come
through the normal house. This guy ghosted us because we kept hearing the noise
and it was getting like louder then, and I've been told their call.
Did you know of anything called a softing? No? But I just want
to say I just before you go any farther, I'm sorry that I find
this so funny, but the specifics Okay, I don't want to step on
this. Please continue because I'm gonna try to hold it together. So a
softing is basically this like the siding ceiling of like your your patio or porches.
So we have like a very nice deck or patio in our front yard
and then a side one Both of these things are coming down like something heavy
had been stepping on it, so we eventually had to call another guy.
He comes, goes into our attic and he was like, he's up there
for ten seconds. He goes, oh, you have raccoons, and I'm
I'm I'm deathly afraid of raccoons. Oh, I didn't know that raccoons scare
the shit out of me. I think it's because like they've not jumped out
at me, but like they've made me jump when I'm taking the trash out
in the dark because they'll be by garbage cans. Now I'm floored because we've
never had in this house any issues with our garbage. We lived next the
ore, one of our neighbors. It's clearly a rental house. There's like
two or three families living there. They throw out their garbage without garbage cans,
like it's just in these bags, never been torn open. And you
know, I'm up all hours, so I've brought the garbage out of two
am, four am, three am, whatever. So I'm just miffed we
have raccoons. And so he's like that you could see they've torn up your
insulation in the attic. They've tuned through wiring in the attic, which is
also why we have central air and then ductless. We have a ductless system
in our garage that stopped working all of a sudden. Guess what, that's
why I stopped working. They came, he says. It looks like one
of them fell through the soffing here, so like that outside ceiling I'll call
it. And there's insulation popping out of the sides. Now this is all
We have dogs, and so we're worried about the raccoons encountering the dogs.
Yeah, it gets it gets worse because two things are happening. We're having
our first we're recording this Friday night. We're having our first real gathering at
the house. Like twenty people are coming over, our friends, both most
of which we haven't seen in like months. So that's about to get canceled.
And then he tells us, now the only reason they would be inside
it's like, it's not even cold. What is happening? And he was
like, well, you see that big hole in your roof. There's a
huge hole by the way in our roof, just this huge hole just straight
into the attic. It's rained and there's this huge hole. We were told
it was a tiny one. Raccoons are apparently super strong, can get through
plywood, the shingles. He was like, you can tell they were determined
to get in here. They're about to give birth. And so I'm like,
you've gone be kidding me. So I'm like, meanwhile, he opens
the attic and he's up there. He's like, oh, it's raccoons.
Like, hopefully they don't shoot down the So I jump. We have a
treadmill in the garage. I jump on top of the treadmill and I'm like
peeled against the wall because I'm so nervous. So we move out, which
is why it looked like I had been kidnapped the other day on the intro
of this podcast. We move out, staying with my in laws because we
were worried about the dogs. We were worried about Dan quite frankly, and
he was like, they're not living up here yet, they're just setting up
a nest. He goes, I think they're living under your shed, because
he pointed out a hole in the shed and he's like, they're sleeping there
and they're coming up here, and so they are outside. So we moved
and they set up a trap. On I think it was Tuesday, Wednesday
morning, there's this giant ass raccoon in the trap. It was a humane
trap. I want to make that clear. We actually we care. I
felt bad, to be honest with you, we felt bad. Even as
much as I hate raccoons, there's just this. It's the size of I
don't know if you've ever seen my dogs, but Wade is like twenty seven
thirty pounds and just very long and tall and big. And the raccoon was
like the size of him. I don't know how big raccoons were supposed to
get. That seems too big for a raccoon. To me. That's alarmingly
large for a raccoon. It was the female raccoon who was still pregnant.
Hey good, good, So no baby raccoons were actually allowed to still have
the gathering at our house, and they feel confident enough that they patched up
the hole in the roof. Now we just have to my final element of
this story, and this is where I think you can start to feel a
little bad for me. I know that we're very fortunate to have a home,
to have some place to go. It cost us. The one guy
who ghosted us, we paid him two hundred and fifty dollars to start that's
just gone. This cost US sixteen hundred dollars and there's probably about another few
thousand dollars worth of damage just in the attic to the elect And I don't
even know. First of all, I didn't even know what soffing was.
He's talking to me. He must think that I'm like this actual masculine guy,
and I'm like, what, I've never heard that word in my life.
So neivas to say. We are both you know, our houses raccoons
free. So I'm very excited. The dogs are going to move back in
in a couple of days. We just want to make sure. But I'm
also you know, thousands and thousands of dollars poor. Now I gotta say
great, first of all, great story, well told, just terrific arc
the whole thing well done. I do feel bad now because I have to
tell you I've only given you like a couple texts about it after you told
me, mostly joking or like giving you a hard time about it. I
do feel bad because that does suck. That's like a real life disruptor.
But good like that's just like, you know, have you considered that first
guy like might have just stuffed a raccoon in there just like for fun,
and there was there was actually a squirrel until he got there, and that's
why he didn't show up after that. That's what they can tell. How
many animals they think we're up there based off the feces. That was literally,
yes, that's how they knew it was raccoons, by the ways,
because that's what they saw. And so it's funny because you're texting me.
You only think you said about been making fun of me, like is we're
about to stream last night for Bleacher Report. You're like, hey, no,
no raccoon's bonds or anything. I think when I said, was Dan,
there are twenty seven raccoons behind you, do not turn around. I
was, and look he started, and I'm sure this was to build it
up, but he was telling us stories about how if raccoons were determined,
they will get inside your house, which is also why we moved as well,
because we just didn't you know, we're obsessed with our dogs and so
we're also I'm obsessed with me and so like that was the other part of
the reason. I mean, I would be obsessed with not having a bunch
of pregnant raccoons in my house. Like that's a that's I feel like you're
on steady ground there in terms of your reaction to this whole thing, because
that's like I mean, I mentioned you know what timing wise, uh,
you probably got I mean, not not great overall, but if you were
not that far away from having like a lot more raccoons in your house,
so you know, glass half full. I guess, I don't know.
That's that is the longest winded intro. Not really a devastball we've ever had,
but it was. It was Newstate. Has been very emotional week in
the Favalley house. I mean the good okay morgand news like if your dogs
are acting all crazy and you know, tracking things around the house that you
can't see, you know, could have been a ghost, could your house
could have been possessed. So I guess the fact that you can, you
know, you can't at least at least it was like a real thing that
you got out of there. I just was I was mad at them a
little bit. I was like, you guys, don't keep this stuff away,
Like what's the point of having you too, literally contribute nothing to the
household other than hugs and kisses, which are very valuable, but it's like,
great, you alerted us after the fact, hooray, and you didn't
keep it. You didn't keep it away. But they feel confident enough that
I don't know how the male female relationship works with raccoons, but they seem
to think by this point, if the mail was hanging around, he would
have been caught already. So we are, as of right now, raccoon
free. Hopefully they didn't. They didn't tell any of their friends, and
like, but I need to know why they chose us. It's still what
I don't know I have to ask is why did you dig through shingles,
plywood, whatever's like roofs are made up. I don't know. And it's
a great it's a huge hole too. It had a fit a raccoon.
But it's just we stared out the window of one of the bedrooms and just
it's just this gaping hole into our house. I mean, kind of a
compliment. You know, there's lots of houses in your neighborhood. They that
yours was the best birthing suite that a raccoon could ask for, So I
guess, you know, I'm just looking for positives here, because that's a
really shitty story. I still anytime I hear a noise, I jumped.
So, yeah, I think you're you're in for like ten years of that.
Now everything is going to be a raccoon in your mind. Now that's
just how you're gonna live. Do you know what, I'm not terrified of.
What's that talking about? So before we dive into just some playoff takeaways,
now we oh no, wait, we have a raccoon comment. Thank
you, Alan, we love you. I used to have a raccoon.
Tough little characters, an escape artists, I could go on. I was
told, and this is beforehand, that they're just super smart, and I
did not know they have like mega human strength either if they put their minds
to it. So, before we get into playoffs stuff, the Toronto Raptors
fired Nick Nurse. I thought it was interesting that that was the language that
was used, just because normally it's parting of the ways. But I don't
know if you saw any of the comments coming out of a size presser.
He like unloaded on the culture, what it was this past season and how
it needed to improve, and it wasn't what they were about. So and
then based off what Nick Nurse said before, one of the pregame availabilities about
he needs to evaluate his own future. It doesn't seem like this was the
cleanest of endings for no. That was like, that's it. I didn't
see all of my size comments, so maybe i'd be interested in what you
thought were the main you know, the most incendiary or the most like sort
of noteworthy sections of that. But from the moment Nurse was saying, you
know, I think he also said in addition to I'm going to take some
time to kind of you know, reassess whatever. I think he also talked
about like this has been you know, ten years is a pretty good run.
I'm paraphrasing, but it definitely felt like he was he was past tensing
his raptors. Ten yere a little bit or at least like, you know,
opening up the possibility that like I think, I think we both know
we're done there, So I guess I'm I guess I'll ask you, and
I feel like I know the answer. Is there anything that's surprising about this
because it did seem like things were kind of lining up and that's excluding you
know, any any comments from parties involved, just like the play of the
team, right, Like we've spent all this time this season talking about how
the Raptors are just very much the same in terms of what's wrong with how
they're playing as they were last year, and so that that always felt to
me like with I think we'll go, I'll throw it to you, like
anything surprising or could you see this coming? Even before the comments. I
think we could see it coming. But when you started to go through the
list of jobs that could be available this summer, I think the Raptors were
definitely higher up there on the list. It just felt faded complete after Nick
Nurse's pregame availability. I will say, while neither of us are surprised,
I don't know how you necessarily feel about the decision and the context of do
I think Nick Nurse did a great job. I look at some of the
minute's distributions, how how uniform Toronto's offense and defense felt the time, where
it's like they couldn't play these different ways, And then I look at the
roster and I'm like, well, what else was he really supposed to do?
And so I don't think he was necessarily perfect, But was this roster
actually built to be any better than it was this season? And we have
the benefit of hindsight, I think both of us. I know I was
high on I think I picked him to win forty eight games or whatever it
was, and so clearly I misread the situation. I'm wondering if as much
responsibility as Nick Nurse clearly deserves and if look, if there are problems behind
the scenes with he was clashing with players, that's you're just you're done,
as the coach, like you're just you're done. But this also sort of
feels like not a move of desperation, that's not how MASSI acts, but
miss like misappropriated blame a little bit because he might have been like one of
the biggest issues. I think the roster construction and this vision might be the
greater issue. Yeah, I I've been in the bag for the Raptors for
a while. I think they're always one of those teams that we just sort
of thought was I guess one of the ways to frame this is kind they
felt like they underachieved, So I guess in answer your question about the roster,
I always liked the experiment, and I think we over blow it a
little bit because it's not like they always had five guys out there that don't
have a position and we're six seven to six nine. But they did that
a lot. It was very much a you know, a concerted effort to
kind of see what that could get you. And the only thing we know
for sure is it could get you a lot of opponent turnovers. And you
don't turn it over, but your offense stagnates and you suck in the half
court because you don't really have a conventional point guard or you don't have a
pick and roll attack consistently. But i'd like, I liked I always liked
the I like the idea of it, and I sort of associated that kind
of let's be on the vanguard of what basketball will look like, you know,
kind of innovation. I guess you'd call it positionally or whatever. I
kind of associated that with Nurse a little bit because of the sheen of like
the boxing one in the finals against Curry, and these weird defensive things he
would try. And I think one of the most complicated things about nurses that,
in conjunction with like what I say, is a disappointing couple of years
that were short on you know, tactical innovation and whatever else. Like you
got the start of his career as a head coach where that like he was
Coach of the Year, he won a title, like he was defined by
being like this is all this guy is on the cutting edge. He's he's
really creative. He's the mad scientist. Like he came up in I think
in Houston, right with the with their then D League team that basically shot
threes and nothing else, and that spilled into how the Houston Rockets played.
Like so he definitely has the pedigree of a guy who is just willing to
tinker and had a lot of success with you know, I guess uncommon ideas,
But then you weigh that against how how much of a flop, you
know, strategically these past couple of seasons have been and I don't know how
to evaluate his legacy or how he's viewed in the coaching or you know,
league wide community. I guess the fact that he's already like very much on
the shortlist for the Rockets job and will probably have his choice of others if
he wants them, suggests that he's the former like the first half of his
head coaching career is probably getting a lot of weight, which I don't think
that's necessarily unfair, but he's gonna be an interesting I think this next job
for him is really going to be telling because you do have two sides of
a coin that are awfully different after these couple of years. But yeah,
not surprised ultimately, But but he's just an interesting it's an interesting case.
And you know what the other thing is like if so, say the Raptors
basically keep the same team together, which they don't have a lot of great
options other than doing that with Van Fleet and Gary Trent Jean you'or having player
options, and then you probably got to bring Purtle back if they're just better
next year, I would say, because you gave up a twenty twenty four
first to get him, right, so the roster may not be very different.
So maybe we will just get like a good comparison, you know,
change the coach, keep the players, see what's different next season. So
yeah, I don't know, it'll be interesting going forward to see how that
looks. For what it's worth. It seems like that's how you, Jerry
was leaning, how you framed it. Let's this is just going to be
the roster, he said. One of the things that stood out this is
per Michael Grange watching this team play this year was not us. I did
not enjoy watching this team play. We believe in the players we have,
but whether it's tweaks or major changes, will look at everything, all the
things we stood for here, the culture we lacked this year, and so
that I'm making imprinces here leads me to believe that he still believes in the
roster. That's why you give up a first round pick for Yaka Purdle and
the overall vision, and that he really thinks hiring a different coach And it
seems like it might be email Udoka unless they were just letting that out to
see what the reaction was, which I do believe in redemption and atonement.
We just still don't know enough of the details under how this inappropriate relationship and
activity toward a female Celtics employee went to know like, okay, well has
he atoned for? Like what is he trying to redeem himself from? So
it makes me uncomfortable. But from the basketball side of things, it does
very much seem like the Raptors, and I think we could always assign this
belief to them, because why would you give up a first round pick at
the trade Devin if you didn't believe in the core of this team. But
I think Eujeri kind of etch that and stone where you have the right blockbuster
trade opportunity comes along. But this very much clearly to me, not that
we ever thought it was, but based off what he said, this is
not a we might rebuild or really try and retool situation. This is a
coaching and culture was the predominant problem, which I don't agree with, by
the way, but that seems like how the Raptors are viewing it. I
think, first of all, it's I don't begrudge Jerry for feeling like the
roster is not necessarily the problem because he put it together and it's easy to
cast blame downward on the coach, but he may be right. The other
thing is like, if you're if the culture wasn't what you wanted it to
be, I think you got to focus on, like who was actually setting
the culture. And I don't know if that's Nurse, because this is a
team that you know, Kyle Lowry was like as an iconic franchise player for
that team and he's been gone. I think mark a Soul was a big
deal. They had Danny Green during that title run, too. You've got
all these guys who just they're the types of guys you want around to set
the culture, and Kauai was the reason they want title. I don't know
if he's a culture setter, but like the personnel is dramatically different and it's
younger, and you tie that up with kind of Scotty Barnes work ethic concerns.
The ju Jerry talked about kind of talked around a little bit the clip
that I saw. So it's I don't know that it's fair to say to
pin the culture issues on Nurse necessarily because this is just a heavier lift,
because when you have Kyle Lowry and Gasol and Danny Green and Kawhi, there's
just like culture isn't even a question. You just you have a bunch of
winners and veterans and guys that are professionals and you know, the correct kinds
of tone setters. So maybe that just ties all the way back to great
coaches aren't great because they have great players or the right kinds of players,
And that's why it's so difficult to evaluate coaching sometimes. But you know,
five years as a head coach, it wasn't five I think it was five
ten is an assistant or something close to that. Like you know that things
run their course, I guess, and you gotta blame, You gotta blame
somebody if you're Jerry and he's not gonna blame himself. Well, it seems
more faded completely very quickly. Adokuts Toronto or Nick Nurse to Houston. I
think the fact that in Woj's right up, Udoka was the first coach's name
mentioned is something we should give a lot of weight to. I will say
the fact that he also reported that the second round of interviews are beginning for
the Rockets, so they're bringing back Vogel and then like now Nick Nurse has
entered the fold. It's like, so he's in the second round of interviews
after not going through the first round. I might lead Nick Nurse to ye
to use it. Nick Nurse gotta buy he didn't have to go through the
first round. So NBA Playoffs. I struggle to actually cover the NBA Playoffs
for this podcast because the only real way to do it seems to be,
like, well, let's focus on a series or team, and if we
wanted to cover just one series or a singular team, we would host a
regional podcast, and there's plenty of spectacular regional podcasts out there. There's a
national NBA pod. I think it's just time to bounce around, look at
surprises, disappointments, winners, losers, just impressions, our biggest impressions so
far. And so I'll throw the talking stick to you first, since you
let me go through my raccoon die a tribe. What are you thinking about
right now is where every every series is at least two games old, and
some of them has re record this or three games old. Yeah, I
mean, first of all, don't apologize for the raccoon story. I wanted.
I wanted that, and I got it. This is gonna be the
least downloaded episode in the history of this polosist because of that ten minute preamble.
I don't know, I think might be what the people want. So
time stamp it so anyone can skip it afterwards if they would like. No,
it's gonna the next pot is gonna be all raccoon talk, I think.
So the first the first thought I had because we've been kind of,
you know, kicking this back and forth since much earlier in the playoffs,
so this is a little iffier or stale, I guess after the Warriors won
Game three pretty handily last night against the Kings, but my first and clearest
winner up to that point, and still I think it gets credited as Mike
Brown, the King's head coach. The first two games of that series I
think revealed a version of the Kings that I was not sure. I should
be more declarative than that that I did not think existed, which is to
say, the defensive intensity was at a level that we had not seen.
The schemes all seemed tailor made to give the Warriors problems. The Kings did
things they don't typically do or they did not typically do during the season.
The offensive rebounding, the ball pressure, the attention to detail, the turnover
like all this, all the stuff that the Kings did to give the Warriors
so much trouble in those first two games. I think you can tie very
directly to Mike Brown. He has a little bit of an edge because he
was the lead assistant for six years in Golden State and is better positioned than
literally anybody else in the world probably to decide what bothers this team, because
that essentially is one of his main jobs, you know, is as a
scout as as as a guy who's trying to plug holes defensively, just what
doesn't what don't we like to see a team do? And then as the
King's head coach, Okay, we'll just do all that. And the Kings
did it exceptionally well and got up two oho in the series that I think
pretty much everybody had Warriors in six. I know I did. I Kings
in four is for anyone who Yeah, nobody checked that. Nobody looked back
or checked that. So yeah, I don't know, I think that's pretty
low hanging fruit, even if after that Game three loss it's you know,
it's a little iffier, but yeah, to go up two oh. And
the way that the Kings did it, I think Mike Brown unanimous coach of
the year by the way, So me really going out on a limb and
saying Mike Brown's doing a good job, but yeah, he's he's a big
winner for me through the first week ish of the playoffs. Yeah he has
to be. Do you feel any better after Game three where they lose against
a Warrior team that doesn't have dream on and we saw what the Warriors did
where some of it was just the King shot so poorly from three. He
couldn't play Davion Mitchell as much. He wasn't hitting his threes. Kick Murray's
been on playable in this series. Fox ended up having almost a triple double.
And we were talking about during the game, how until the third quarter
it felt like we didn't really feel Yeah, but do you feel better or
worse about the Kings over? Well, you can't feel better after that game,
But how much worse do you feel? Does? It's high into Mike
Brown has done such a good job during this series, you almost like that
now he has something more concrete to adjust to. I just where are you
at with that? Yeah? I mean, I guess what i'd say is
banking those first two wins is really big because you just have such a greater
margin for error. As the King's going forward, the Warriors have to win
game four. I think to avoid what I would have I gotta believe that
the Kings will win at least one more home game. The Warriors are going
to have to win a road game, which has been a massive struggle.
So I think, I guess I feel a little worse because the Warriors,
which we should have expected, I guess, have figured out some solutions,
even shorthanded for what the Kings have done really well. But no, I
just I guess I'm just really impressed because I and everybody else seemed to be
convinced that, you know, not to say the Kings were happy to be
here, but they were overmatched. They were in experience the Warriors would play
better, and the Kings just put the lie to that, you know,
in a pretty substantial way through the first two games. So even if the
Warriors go on to win the series, I would say that the Kings have
made like probably a better showing than anybody expected. And it's definitely not a
given that the Warriors are gonna just that the tide has turned irreversibly. You
know, it's easy to get caught up in the recency buyas stuff. But
yeah, I guess I feel a little worse because they're not up three zero
but two ones pretty solid. I'd say, for Brown and the Kings,
what do you do? You want to do? You have a winner or
loser? Next I'll throw to you. I've been talking about positive positive fall
by negative negative. I'm immediately drawn towards well, I have a few let's
go with. We have to do the Timberwolves. I have a stat for
you that you already know, and I know this isn't a I know transition
was not a huge part of their game this season, but I just found
this fascinating. Through the first two first halves of this series, so first
and second quarter in games one, end Games two, because so four quarters
total, the Minnesota timbost have scored three transition points. Denver's defense has been
a lot better. Zach Loo wrote about it. You and I have talked
about it. Ben Taylor did a video about how they've done some more like
basically like he called it peel switching or scramble switching. It wasn't necessarily scram
switching, but the way that they've they've mixed up their coverages with Nicole Yokitch.
Now part of that I think against the Timberwolves specifically for Denver. Now
this is tying into you might have we have some stuff to tell about Denver,
but Minnesota specifically, they are so much easier to defend with Rudy Gobert
on the floor. It's not even funny. He had a really good third
quarter. I think it was in Game two where the Wolves make that raging
come back, but just there's not enough space on the floor. They are
so and they don't respect Minnesota shooters enough. They'll just crowd Rudy Gobert on
the role or they will dare him. You should look at how technically wide,
wide open Rudy Gobert is on. Some of these roles are the best,
like make a decision, base, do it, and they just don't
care. And now you're dealing with that on top of Anthony Edwards came alive
in Game two, but he's dealing with the shoulder injury. There's just no
cadence to this offense, like they can vary it up sometimes and when Anthony
Edwards gets by guys out of the pick and roll or just coming up in
their half court, they need to get into their half court offense. Earlier,
Towns is not having a banner series, and I look, I guess
this is a hot take and I wouldn't predict it, but people are too
I still believe they're too low on Karl Anthony Towns. The offensive fouls are
frustrating, but he is and I don't think this is on him to some
extent, still predicated on guys getting him the ball. He doesn't need them
to set him up, but he's not bringing the ball up, So you
need to figure out a way to, like if you're gonna throw it against
a mismatch on the block, or you like let like have him attack outside
in more, I still think he could techually be their best player, even
more so than anthy Edwards. I wouldn't predict it, and right now he's
not bad series for him. Looming over all of this, by the way,
and there's more that we can get into from the series if you would
like. Looming over all of this is they don't have Jane McDaniels, they
don't have Naz Reid. And now you're going into a situation this offseason where
you're five most important players Mike Conley, Jane McDaniels, at the Edwards,
carl Ley Towns and Rudy Gobert have barely played together and will barely have played
together. What information do you glean out of this core? And you're I
know, way at the Edwards is young, Jade McDaniels is young, Mike
Conley is not, Rudy Gobert is not. You've now given Towns his second
MAX contract. There's urgency and just look at how much it gave up to
get Rudy Gobert in the first place. How do you know what you need?
But like, how do you confidently continue to flesh out around this core,
especially when like we've kind of seen that this wasn't damaging. I was
wrong about the Mike Conley trade. He's been great connective tissue for Minnesota.
So let me get that out of the way. But like you already had
to make that huge adjustment of Okay, well we need to get a different
type of guarden here because it's not working with Rudy Gobert and you're just gonna
have the sample size of your best players on the court together on top of
all that's just going wrong, and it's not I don't think the personnel is
an excuse necessarily for how much they've struggled for most of this series, mostly
because you have four of your five best players on the floor in this series,
and I've just been for the most part, wildly unimpressed with how they've
done in the postseason. Yeah, so hold on, I thought you were
going positive positive. You just shipped all over the Timberwolves. What's Yeah,
I messed up. I was waiting for you to circle back, and somehow
I was like, wow, he's really digging a deep hole. I wasn't
gonna get out of this, so Timberwolves got it loser. I hold on
all response to that by just you let me go for four minutes before I
just trust you that much. I think you're gonna get all the way back
around. I will say just a quick one because this is kind of a
Wolves adjacent thing. A winner is the Nuggets defense a little bit other than
the third quarter of Game two when, as you noted, the Timberwolves fire
and Anthony Edwards made like nineteen of Anthony Andrews was like nineteen of fifteen from
the floor. Somehow it was that good. Yeah, no, that don't
don't double check that either. But the Nuggets, you know, I say
they're like a qualified winner because some of the location based shot data suggests their
defense has actually been bad. They're I think they're fifteenth and their third and
defensive rating in the playoffs, but they're fifteenth I think in location based effective
field wal percentage because they're still letting the Wolves get to the rim a ton
and the Wolves are finishing well there. So that's like a little bit of
a red flag. But this is mostly cribbing from Zach Low who wrote it
up today. The Nuggets have been more aggressive and like varying their coverages.
They're doing weird stuff like dropping yokis sometimes depending on where the screens are coming
in the pick and roll, and they're even bringing there crashing in an extra
defender, which you don't normally do in drops because and you pointed this out
because this ties to the Wolves. There's several shooters on Minnesota that the Nuggets
are just not that concerned with. And so that's all to say that I
don't know if this will continue to work for Denver, but it is encouraging
that there are at least some signs tactically that Denver is working or trying to
be opportunistic or being a little more clever about how are we just going to
get stops, especially in the pick and roll, because the reason that we
view the West as wide open, and the reason that you know everybody other
than you, by the way, who thinks someone other than Denver's coming out
of the West or that it's a toss up is just because of the defense.
So any positive signs for me from Denver defensively, even if there's a
little bit of smoking mirrors maybe built into it, is has to make them
a winner because I guess if you were to just sort of imagine hypothetically,
say Denver was like the tenth best defense during the year, and they did
this kind of thing all season and they were more you know, malleable,
just more creative and just more successful, I feel like we'd think about the
Western Conference a lot differently, and so with some of the with all the
parody elsewhere in these series, you know, I think Denver showing some defensive
you know, positive science is like, that's that's about as big a deal
as you'd say, as you'd want to see from any team on any side
of the ball in these playoffs. So pretty encouraging, even if I'm putting
it as a as a qualified winner thing. I wonder if there's something to
the dunker spot Nicias and Steve Jones had mentioned with the King's specifically entering the
playoffs that having more time to prepare for an opponent would make their defense better
equipped. And I'm wondering if we could see that at play with the Nuggets
here, where maybe their personnel is very rigid for a regular season setting to
where you might have hot spurts, but if you give them an opportunity to
game plan for singular opponents, it becomes a lot easier. Now, I
still think teams like Phoenix specifically won't wind up being a terrible matchup for Denver
now after the Kevin Durant trade, But I'm wondering if there's something to that
with regards to Denver. I think with Sacramento it's kind of born out,
although how much of it is Okay, Mike Brown has already he's coached with
the Warrior, so he knows a lot of their their playbook. Yeah,
all right, I got a loser for you. You're ready. I have
a winner as promise that ties into the Nuggets. So let's Jamal Murray been
an absolute monster this series. Has the step back going shooting seven of ten
in the restricted area, making tough shots again overall as well, and then
so he has that huge offensive performance in the second game, but it was
even more encouraging, like he didn't shoot that great in the first game,
nine of twenty two from the floor, fourth ten on threes, which,
yeah, you'll take that, But like I thought, he was tough on
defense, really good at making the smart pass based off what are you how
he was reading Minnesota's defense. Eight assists against one turnover in that game.
This is he was kind of up and down a lot this season, which
I think you would expect someone coming off an a c L injury, and
then he had some knee stuff crop up during the middle of the schedule as
well. If he's going to play like this, don't even forget game too.
Jamal Murray, you get game one, Jamal Murray, You're scary.
The Nuggets are all of a sudden because like that's a Jamal Murray where it's
oh, like they can do different things defensively then too, and now you
have a different way to manage a ton of your minutes, like and look,
there have been points in this series. I think, I don't know
how many. I think it was a Game two that I saw. We
know it was Game one because they weren't playing towards the end. Like even
Game two, the Nuggets feel a little bit confident in Jamal Murray and Nicole
Yoget's not playing together, Like that's incredible, Like we're i mean, taking
both of them off the court at the same time, that doesn't really have
to do with Jamal Murray, but that might be a win for Michael Porter
Junior, who's kind of another low key winner of this. But Jamal Murray
has been fantastic and if he's going to be that that kind of postseason Jamal
Murray we had come to expect, Like just remember what he did in the
bubble. Remember his first playoff series against the Spurs, Like he like single
handedly won them. I think he might have cost them a game, but
he like single handedly won them too. If this is the version of Jamal
Murray that you're just getting the Nuggets. I know that offense isn't their primary
issue, but like they just become infinitely harder to be if you can look
at it and say, oh, we know who the second best player on
the court is going to be every single game and it's Jamal Murray. Yeah.
I mean he had the ball in his hands a ton in that second
half of Game two, is particularly the third quarter where it just kind of
turned into a shootout. It was kind of the most fun that that series
has been, which is not saying a lot, but so play off Jamal
Murray for sure is very much its own thing. The best part and the
thing I love is that it always feels like whenever Murray does this, the
other team has a guy that you know, and it used to be Donovan
Mitchell that we would just they would just trade Haymakers and Anthony Edwards kind of
got into the act a little bit in the second half of game too.
There's just nothing better, and I don't know what it is. It's like
Murray's you know, brightest moments always kind of line up with someone else who
we also love to watch doing kind of the same thing. So more of
that, please, both from a Nuggets perspective, because Murray matters so much,
but also just from a from a fan perspective because I don't know.
I don't know why it works out that way, but that's just what happens
when Jamal Murray gets hot. I have to I have to bring it down
now because we're gonna go to another guard that has had Playoffs success but is
not and so one of my losers so far as Trey Young, And part
of that is just he's the best player on a team that is on the
wrong end of so far what I'd say is the most lopsided series. I
know the Sixers are up three zero, but we could talk about it at
some point. I don't know if I can't remember if either of us has
anyone from that series as a winner or loser. But the Nets have mostly
competed and so being down three oh is just kind of like, you know,
it's a little different. The Celtics have been by far the better team
than Atlanta. That is not a surprise, but just coming on the heels
of you know, Young wasn't an All Star again this year. He has
now run through two coaches. All the damning reports from during the season about
you know, the one that really I'm never going to get out of my
brain is that I think it was Sam Amock saying that if the Hawks players
had to choose between Young and Nate McMillan, if they had to pick sides,
they would have picked Nate McMillan's side, which is just so I mean,
that's gutting right, and so Young in this series thirty five percent from
the field, twenty three point one percent from deep. He's making under seventy
percent from the foul line, and like low key, getting fouled and making
free throws is a big part of his game. Just has not fourteen of
forty from the field. I just like he's got ten turnovers to fourteen assists.
He just hasn't. The only scenario where the Hawks would be competitive in
the series is if Young were the best player on the floor, like more
than once, and he has been nowhere close to that. I think maybe
he'll, you know, you can't ever rule out he's going to have a
big game at some point. But Boston and Boston's great. Boston is the
maybe the worst possible team for him to match up against because there's so many
good defensive guards and wings and they all have size advantages. There's great back
line help in Boston's defense. Boston's just good. But Young this playoff performance
coming after last season's playoff performance, which was also poor. He was even
worse just looking at it. So the Hawks fell in five to Miami in
the first round of last season. It's playoffs, and he shot thirty one
point nine percent from the field eighteen point four percent from deep across five games
for Trey Young, like good luck that you are not going to succeed there.
I think maybe he had an ankle injury. I can't remember, but
more turnovers than assistant last playoffs. It's just like the trajectory for Trey Young's
career over the last twenty over the last year, really, but even longer
than that, not great, not encouraging. And so now we're gonna have
to talk about the Hawks potentially trading him and all this other stuff. So
I don't know how you frame him as anything but one of the bigger losers
of this postseason. I received a text message from someone during this series that
reads, no one actually respects Trey shot anymore and it clogs up everything.
It's hard to think he's that dude, caps lock that dude when he's had
no counter to it, because he's just not a knockdown shooter and that's a
frustrating issue when he's also a defensive zero. And that you know I'm reading
that because you mentioned the Trey Young trade stuff. I've kind of dismissed it,
and I'll still mostly dismiss it, but that could become very real over
this offseason. And I don't buy the whole timing of that report just before
the playing about the Hawks new for ant office having the agency to move him.
That's either like I don't want to say outdated info, but info that
people were holding onto for a while, or it's just not coming from the
Hawks. There's no reason for Trey or the Hawks to leak that now.
But I do think it becomes more interesting and we have a friend of the
podcast Rhett Bauer was proposing like a framework of Trey plus what to Brooklyn for
Mchaale Bridges plus what. And I ultimately think that I don't know if either
team would do that because I'm assuming Brooklyn wants to kind of reset its culture
after the whole KD Kyrie Irving James Harden fiasco. And also just I think
that excused too far towards all secondary creators for Atlanta with de Jontay and Michal
Bridges, like who's your I guess if you consider Dejanta Murray a one a
passer, I just I don't, and like Trey can still do that,
and Michail Bridges isn't there yet, and then you have, yeah, you
have Bogey and you could grow Spencer diduity in there. I thought it was
an interesting thought exercise. I'm not dumping all over the idea from from Rhett.
It's that's which is why I'm bringing this up, it's the prelude too.
It's really hard to find no brainer Trey Young destinations. And that's why
I think that Atlanta ultimately is because he's still an offensive force in fury,
but like you have to figure out how to tailor make the offense around him
or defense around him to make this work. But it doesn't that thought process
doesn't mean as much when he's playing like this on offense. It can be
so frustrated or neutralized, even if you don't want to say easily, even
if you don't want to say consistently as semi frequently as we've now seen him
postseasons. No, I think the idea of trading for Young a it's like
a really franchise altering decision because you know you have to change everything about your
operation if Trey Young is on your team. He's not someone he is trailing
is eminently not scalable like right, because if he's on the team, you're
gonna have you're embracing extreme heliocentrism. You're not. You're gonna have to cover
for him defensively at every other position, and you have these leadership questions and
you have these postseason flop questions and which is you know, stem largely out
of the point that you made or that your anonymous text are made about how
if he's not gonna be someone that just wins you games offensively by himself,
then like what are you what are you getting? And it seems pretty clear
like this is me inferring things too. I don't think guys like to play
with him. I think you've had the John Collins stuff a couple of years
ago. You have the siding with naming, but there's just a lot of
evidence that he's not fun or easy to play with, and he's also up
in productive lately too, So like I just it's such a big alteration for
a guy that it just it doesn't seem worth it. And now we're talking
about Trey at like the absolute nadea of his sort of que rating over the
last you know, several months or years. But like you know, concocting
a trade for him that is defensible and makes sense and finding a partner that's
willing to take on all the minuses for some of the pluses that might be
there is really tough. And to be clear, I also think it was
in Tray's defense, it was oversold how much he struggled during the regular season.
It was an early season thing, and he end up putting twenty seven
and ten on reasonable efficiency. If that's not going to translate to the playoffs
is where it becomes an issue when you could say, Okay, it's Boston,
that's a terrible matchup for him. But the road through the easts of
right now is going to run through Boston for quite some time. It looks
like and I don't know when I look at this roster, I don't know
what the answer is. And part of that is because what we've seen this
series specifically doesn't feel like a roster construction issue so much as a tray's offensive
profile issue. And so is he going to be able to make defenses pay
for now playing that far off him? Is that a function of they also
know what spots like Trey and jan Ty Murray like to get to anyway inside
the arc as, I don't know what the response is and what even the
next evolution of trade would be. I think it would. I think we
actually I think we know what it is. Can you get him moving away
from the ball, Yeah, he's kind of smaller and just never done that.
I don't know if you can go that route. It'll be interesting to
see. Quinn Snyder might be the guy to do it, just because of
how his early onset Utah offense looked. Yeah, so I would say if
they don't trade Young this offseason, which still seems like kind of a long
shot, I guess even if the front hour front office has the green light,
if we get into next season and Quinn Snyder has the summer to kind
of set the culture, install the offense, install the style of play he
wants that he had in Utah and it doesn't look different offensively, or Young
continues to be unwilling to change how he plays, like, then we got
real problems because then Young is the only kind of lever to pull left for
the Hawks. So that'll yeah, this may well, we're gonna know,
We're gonna have an answer, you know, in November. I think I'm
gonna go positive this time. I promise. Okay, I have a question
for you. Okay, and you finish second and defensive Player of the Year
voting and still be underrating for a friend, I have a feeling that that
is very much possible. Brook Lopez might be the most underrated player in the
NBA because and I will say his defensive value. First of all, his
value is often boiled down to look what he's doing as a rim protector,
which I think it's not insulting, but it's an oversimplification of his actual defense,
where yeah, look at what he's doing as a rim protector. But
like, this is someone when you look, he knows how to use angles
and like body bends to like come out of what you would call his wheelhouse
or comfort zone and hold up like he's if you don't want to call him
matchup proof, he's not someone that is going to be played off the floor.
Like, yes, Miles Turner is more matchup proof. You know who's
more matchup proof than Kristops sports and gets Brook Lopez. It's like he I
just I can't say enough about what he's able to do defensively, and it
holds up when Milwaukee's other best defenders aren't on the court. You put Johannis
off the Bucks still ranking the ninety like nine percent tile of defensive officials.
He pulled Drew Holiday off. I believe it's the same story last time I
checked. We go into Game two against Miami, this is where the underrated
stuff comes in when we talk about brook Lopez, and maybe not we,
but I'm sure at least I'll say I've probably been guilty of it at some
point, boiled down his offensive value to like, look at how important to
that is to Milwaukee spacing. You put someone who can shoot threes around Yannis
and how that works. He takes we start taking like eight three point attempts
for thirty six minutes. In game two, he takes one without Jannis.
The Bucks decided we're gonna play through brook Lopez very early on, and you
look at his ability to get He's not going through these like he used to
be more of a We talk about how much his shot profile has changed.
Even when you're looking at his inside the arc attempts, they're so much different
from how they were earlier on in his career, Like you're not actually posting
him up, he's getting absurd position, and then on the catch he's just
turning, throwing up a push shot, cutting for a dunk. And the
fact he could put the ball on the floor and go outside in I think
he only had one of those in Game two. But he's a seven footer
at the age of thirty five, who's just like, yeah, I can
pump and drive whatever, that's fine. He is. And then in Game
two he had what was it, twenty five points on twelve of seventeen shooting
doesn't make a three throughout that entire game, and it was just the I
don't want to say that it was the epitome of brook Lopez's value, but
it was just like this reminder he does so much, and I think even
you look at this series, Milwaukee's defense has actually been not great overall the
heat or making jumpers, which is just absurd. Also Brooke though has not
when you look at the rim protection numbers, those haven't been great for him.
He's kind of nailed the Bamatti Bio assignment, though the Bucks are the
heat as a team or averaging point nine two points per possession. When brook
Lopez register registers as a defender on bam Atibaio, I can get in the
shot profile like Bamata Bio has more turnovers than assists in those But because this
is measured in partial possessions, I like to just I think the team.
I think the team's performance is the most accurate rate of view it, even
though it's probably not perfectly tell tale brook Lopez is thirty five headed towards free
agency, and he's just a monstrous winner because of the recognition he gets for
his defense, for how good he's still on offense. And I think when
we talk about biggs who can stretch the floor, protect the rim, not
be played off the floor on defense and then also just open up so many
different options and shots inside the arc. You can count those bigs on one
hand. There's Miles Turner. There's who's after that, Jaron Jackson, maybe
Jaron Jackson Jr. Who else? I mean, Anthony Davis is he's not
on that list, right like you, because he's not the shooting elements not
there other than that one time in the bubble. Partly Anthony Towns doesn't bring
the rim projection. There might there might be four or five guys. Brook
Lopez is one of them. And I don't know if you have anything to
add to this, My final thought would be it would not shock me.
I know the cap is going up, but like this is someone who could
get twenty plus million dollars per year. Yeah, on a short term deal
for sure, just because you know, there's not really any drop off.
And this is a guy that was it last year that he missed all the
time with back surgery. Like for a guy that age, that's not big
and he's just he's better than he was a year ago. No, you're
you're totally right. I think the most the not being able to be played
off the floor thing is the most impressive part of all this because for a
long time, even when Lopez was doing a lot of this, there was
this, well, what if you know, what if the Bucks just have
Yannis play the five? Imagine imagine what that might get them, you know,
And that's just like, that's just clearly wrong. That's just not that
that is not the best version of the Bucks. It was easy to think
so because that's how every team kind of wanted to operate when it was clear
that, I mean, this is the Warriors thing to because Draymond Green at
the five, Like, how do we compete with that? Everybody's looking for
the switchable center that can kind of do a bunch of stuff, and well
maybe that's no, No, it's not Yannest Jannie could do. That doesn't
make the Bucks better than having Lopez out there. And I would say too
that the auto Bio matchup is really interesting because and it's actually kind of weirdly
a good one for Lopez because Autobio is not a guy that is gonna stretch
him all the way out to the three point line, so he can hang
in his drop a little bit and worry. For sure, Autobio is gonna
make, you know, fourteen to eighteen footers and get in the lane and
push up floaters. But like the Bucks would love it for opponents to take
those shots, right, Like, that's that's part of what they want you
to do. So he is positioned to succeed. But there's not really we
haven't really seen, correct me if I'm wrong, you know, the matchup
or the team that you kind of look at Lopez on the floor and wonder,
well, how is he going to hang out there? That just doesn't
happen for him. Even if the Clippers do what they did, and I
think we'll get to the Clippers in the second to close that game against they
have five guards on the court. Essentially, I'm like, yeah, Brook
Lopez could totally play. That's right, he's good, he's fine. I
have an other winner and that's at the same position, and some recency buyas
in this because we just watched this game last night together this is Kevon Looney
and it like, if you follow the Warriors enough, you do understand that
he is sort of you know, he's not on the level of the Steph
Clay, Draymond you know, triumvirate in terms of these are the guys that
want us the title. I think probably when you know, looking back at
it, you'll you'll think of Andrea Godala even before you think of Kevon Looney
because he was there for all of it and had bigger roles. But so
Looney against the Kings, playing without Draymond Green, just goes out and gets
you know, I think in the first quarter he had three offensive boards,
seven total, four assists, like didn't score. I think he had two
points in the game. I'm not looking at this right now, but he
ended up with twenty boards. He really offered proof of concept and this was
a major discussion point for us and I think it should be going forward or
if the Warriors, it almost doesn't matter who the one big is. It
can be Looney or it can be Draymond Green. The best versions of this
have featured Draymond Green, but Looney last night was just the one of the
key is to unlocking the spacing that made the nugget the King's defense less effective.
It freed up shooters, it freed up the lane, allowed the Warriors
to get at least, if not three level scoring because they're not going to
shoot a ton amid Rangers, but two level because they were having a hell
of a time trying to get to the bucket for clean looks to get into
space. And Looney very much was the key for that because he can.
You can give him the ball twenty three feet from the basket and he's gonna
make good decisions, he's gonna set good screens, he's gonna just be the
guy that enables the Warriors to be the best version of themselves. So I
just think, and he's doing this all while playing basically heads up with Demanna
Sabonis, who's one of the best offensive centers in the league, and he's
getting involved in tons of actions because the King's run so much through Sabonis.
So I just think Looney is some that the Warriors all talk about as he's
the heart of the team. He's like the adult in the room. He's
so poised, he's so sacrifice so much. You know, he comes off
the bench gets benched in you know, huge playoff games from the starting lineup
after starting all year, no problem, just kept Just the Kavan Looney celebration
is an order. I think there's not a team that he wouldn't help,
you know that, that's all, but this particular Warriors team. I think
he just proved that he just matters a ton. He's been incredible when they've
most needed it, which is maybe the best thing you can say about about
a role player. And that could tie into I don't want to call him
a winner or a loser, but I think this could tie into the larger
discussion. I think the Warriors are a winner because they've discovered, well,
look at what can happen when we have so much space. Like just from
that game, I think there's something to take away. Is Draymond Green at
all a loser because of this? Is it? It's proof of concept?
I think more for what it can do to open up the offense and help
them put pressure on the basket. But like, is there a little bit
of Okay, if he really laughed in free agency, how much worse would
they be? And I want to say I still skew because of what he
does defensively. I think there's more a proof of concept of the type of
a lineups they need to run out. But is he at all a loser
because of what they do in Game three without him? I mean, just
the fact that we're having to just you know, kind of think about this
a little bit is kind of a bad look for him. And that's just
independent of having to think about all the give and take of the whole Draymond
experience, which you know, go back to the punch, Like I think
you can tie that to Jordan Pool And we've talked a little bit about some
of the younger guys maybe being unhappy. I think a lot of that is
Draymond. I think, if nothing else, if you so, yeah,
I think Draymond comes off looking maybe less in a girl at least for now.
He's like peaque. Draymond Green is the best defensive player I think I've
ever seen. And they don't win the four titles without him. They might
have five if he hadn't gotten suspended in the twenty sixteen finals. That's we've
belabored that. But like, it's a bad look for him unless he views
what happened with Looney as the only big and his takeaway is, maybe I
don't need to hunt these high risk backdoor cut bounce passes. Maybe I don't
need to try to do, you know, really high difficult handle like Looney
is a low mistake guy offensively, and he's just out there to get in
front of bodies and make the easy play, make the easy pass. Steve
Kerr always talks about let's hit singles. Cavan Luney is a three fifty hitter
that hits a lot of singles, just over and over, and Draymond Green
is a little more like high high variants, you know, the high the
highs are high, the lows are low. The mistakes sometimes with the passes
are terrible, and those killed the Warriors in the first two games. So
maybe if Draymond looks at that and just kind of understands, you know,
we don't need to work quite as frenetically on offense to get what we need
against the Kings. And Looney kind of proved that. But you said it
defensively, Looney is not on Draymond's level. Versatility wise, anticipation wise.
Looney's just solid, is in the right place, knows what to do,
takes hits, can all that stuff. But yeah, I think it's not
unfair to say Green is a bit of a loser from this first round just
because the Warriors just kicked ass without him, Like how do you like,
how do you spend that another way? And the interest of moving us along
here too, since we said we weren't going to go that much longer over
an hour. I'm onto a loser and I think this is by default.
I want to make this clear. I haven't seen I think if you look
at it's the Clippers or a loser. I'm like burying the lead there.
I think if you look at the how tightly they ended up playing the songs
with Al Kawai and Paul George on Thursday night, that's kind of a big
deal downsizing maybe finding something there in the second half, an actual loser from
this series. By the way, Robert Comington, how can that do not
see the floor? They talked about him entering the rotation in Game three.
He proceeded to log three minutes and thirty eight seconds. But the Clippers,
it's just like, it's cool that Norman Powell was able to go off for
forty two and he just does what he does at every single stop and is
valuable there, But now you're risking and they're let's call him a tentative loser
because no one really expected them to beat Phoenix without Paul George and the fact
that they won Game one kind of opened the door of okay, like is
there is there something here? But like now you're just going through another postseason
where yes, there's inbuilt excuses that are viable. You don't have your two
best players for at least one of the games, you don't have your second
best player for the entire series. But how many times like that is That's
unfortunate And it's also just their reality at this point after all these years,
and so I feel like you're in a position where you have to start asking.
And I don't mean to turn this into like one of the stars needs
to be moved. I don't necessarily think that's the case. Like you're kind
of finding these gems. In Russell Westbrook's defense, whenever he's playing Kevin Durant,
apparently, I think his rim pressure, even when it's chaotic and he's
committing turnovers and his inability to just finish consistently at the basket is wild.
Like some of them are just really high quality looks and they're just not going
in. But they've found things, They've unearthed gems. They have a lot
of talent on this roster, and yet the path forward still feels so hazy
because it's not we need to get this type of player, it's we need
one of our stars to last an entire playoff series, and they can't,
and that's it's unfair. So I want to make that clear. I'm not
Oh Kawai saft No, Like Kawai was dealing with his injury in game two,
apparently when he was just I noticed almost no difference from him, which
game one and two. The dude is so good and he's been a top
five seven players since December, so you even get that extended of a stretch
from him, and it just can't last another not even we say, like
another sixteen wins. They probably weren't gonna win the hip anyway, but like
even just to get through the series, whether you win or or lose it.
And I just don't know what to make of it, because it's cool,
Like, again, they have so much talent, and I think they've
discovered things about themselves, and I also think that they've not discovered enough,
I'm inclined to give Tily the out of the doubt, but I'm always kind
of like, you know, before game three, it's why is in Terrence
Man playing more minutes? And even he logs fewer than twenty six in game
three? And then it's well, why why doesn't Robert Covington see the floor
at all? Like, I think, I feel very confident in saying this.
I know it's a hot take. I would rather have Robert Covington play
than Mason Plumley. I just like everyone, sit down, brace yourselves.
I hope everyone's okay, why not try it? But again, Tyler is
so smart and such a good coach, that is there something else there?
I just but the Clippers feel like a loser because they're just never gonna have
the run with this team that they need to have, And I don't know
how they go about inoculating themselves protecting themselves against this happening all over again.
Yeah. I think I would also add that we are kind of the collective
NBA fandom or whatever aresers in this because I'm and I'm personally annoyed by this,
because I just did not have any fun talking about the Clippers this year,
because the only thing you could really say with any you know, any
certainty, was well, you know there, we'll just see when we see,
you know, because they haven't. They've they've rested guys. They're the
load management kings. We don't, you know, we won't really know until
we get to the playoffs. And if those guys are healthy, I like
their chances against anyone. I mean, so many people kept the Clippers in
the high end contender class even as they were just being really boring and not
winning a ton of games because you got Kawai and Paul George and you got
all these you know, wings and guards and everything like that might work.
You know, they might any contenders, they might come out of the West,
and we're gonna and I'm annoyed because we're gonna have to do it again
next year because they're not going to break these two Kawai and PG up.
Realistically, how do you what do you expect to get for them? And
it's they're not going in the direction if you give up. You know,
fifty games of Kawai is better than eighty two of whoever you're trying, except
from our perspective, because all that means is we go into the next playoffs
and they're the five seed or whatever, and we just have to do this
dance again. It's like, it's not an indict again. You're right,
it's not an indictment of the roster building theory, like it makes sense,
but it's just again, we're going to do this again where we just don't
know what they are and it will all depend on if they're healthy, and
they probably won't be healthy. And this eventually, this experiment's just gonna hit
the half decade mark and we're gonna it's gonna expire naturally. But I just
that sucks. I don't want to do that again. It wasn't You couldn't
really analyze the Clippers at all this season in a big picture way because you
just didn't have, you know, the full picture to look at. So
yeah, yeah, that's a good call. I have another quick loser to
hit that we were we landed on earlier today, and that is the rules
of the of NBA basketball, Because I would say the most important thing about
rules is you have to know what they are and they have to stay the
same and everyone has to understand how they're going to be enforced and interpreted.
That's why we have rules. So it takes the work out of what do
we do in situation X when thing why happens? I don't know, Dan,
I don't know what the rules are. Because Draymond Green gets kicked out
for getting his ankle grabbed and stomping on Sabonis. Not that hard, I
would add, the bruised Sternham thing felt a little suspect, as did him
writhing on the floor. Green's at fault, could have fallen down, could
have drawn a foul, but he gets ejected, gets suspended, and then
compounding So I don't know, And then we're now we're considering history of We're
considering Green's history of violence, that's my interpretation of it. We're considering the
him barking at the crowd after the fact. We're also acknowledging probably the fact
that the commissioner was in the audience as a factor in that. I know
you've talked about this had to be right, but like, okay, So
now we have all these new parameters that factor into suspension decisions. That's one.
And then in this net Sixers game, we get Joel Embiid straight up
kicking a guy, which, by the way, has gotten Draymond Green in
trouble many many times. It's a flagorrant one, right, Do I have
that? Right? He's kicking at Nick Claxton from the ground, do you
so? The reason why he only got a flagrant one is that his aim
isn't as good as Draymond's. Right, Yeah, you gotta work on it.
Gotta work on it. You hit the you hit the leg, You're
fine. It's a flavorant one. I mean, if you're talking about like
there's no place in basketball for that, that feels like one of those moments
if we're gonna if we're gonna, I don't know if I we're gonna differentiate
stomps and kicks if the landing spot matters. So that's one thing. James
Harden gets kicked out with a flagrant two for a cup check, which like,
yeah, don't do that either, but measured against one another, I'm
not sure how you determine what's worse. And then Nick Claxton gets tossed for
flexing after dunks a couple of times double Like, okay, so that's a
factor now too, what's your what's your body mass index, what's your like,
what's your body fat? Are you are you you know, how yoked
do you look? Have you been? Are you in a cut or in
a bulk phase? I don't know does that factor into getting thrown out of
game? So like we're making a halfway joke of this, but like this
is the playoffs. We got to know what the standards are and they can't
change, and they can't be arbitrarily enforced or at least hazily enforced. Like
we need to have much more clear criteria of what's going to get you a
flagrant one, a flagrant two, a technical kicked out, a game suspended.
Like I just feel like it would be not Look, we all want
the games to be cited by the players, especially in the playoffs, so
I'm not And maybe that just means we air on the side of not throwing
anybody out or we just try to find ways. But then that's also hazy
because you're leaving it up to referee discretion. I just don't know. I
don't like this. I like rules to make sense. I like to know
what they are. So that's all. That's all I'm saying about the rules.
Where the rules are the big loser because they're missing their most important element.
Which is clarity and consistency. That's all. I don't have anything to
add other than that, I perfectly agree with you. It's sort of just
like and I. The charge debate is more we didn't even talk about that.
Yeah, it's more fascinating to me because I I'm not gonna get mad
at people who say banned the charge immediately after we watch John Moran, jannest
Autenti Hupo get undercut and injured and then Mith games in the playoffs. I
actually respect the people who are like, well, think about the offensive rating.
If you did that less in that moment, I'm not that's just whatever.
But you can't ban the charge. And because those people who are well
actually about the offensive ringing are are right, It's just it's not the moment
for it. In my opinion, you need to We talked about this on
the Just Gonna Keep plugging that the hardwood Knock or do we call it because
the way that it happened you Grant Hughes and the Hardwoo Knocks collective, like,
do you put your name in front of it? Now? Sure?
But we talk about on that stream though it is my point. You said
it extend the restricted area. I think that's kind of a simple solution,
right, I'm not about I've seen a lot of the takes of well,
God should be able to stop and pop, and like, no, because
now you know, you're kind of already saying that some of the teams skew
to homogeneous or that teams are obsessed with a certain type of player. You
don't think that's gonna aid in their obsession of a certain type of player,
And so it's just I don't I don't like that idea, and I understand
why you can't ban the charge, even though that would probably be the safest
outcome. Extend the restricted area for and all, and at least regardless of
where the restricted areas, please be more consistent with how you're calling charges in
the first place. I think that, Yeah, I mean I can't take
obviously can't take credit for the extending the restricted area. A lot of people
every time this comes up, that's like, oh, yeah, let's just
do that. That's the most obvious solutions. You guys getting getting undercut at
the basket. I think the other thing you could do is just have the
officiating be really really not biased is the wrong word, but really purposeful in
making sure that if the offensive player has like initiated the takeoff, has gathered
the ball and you are not already standing there like reading the newspaper. As
a defender, like you need to be there so early because what you want
is to avoid guys just running people over. And like, I mean,
NBA athletes are the best in the world, it's really hard for them to
just make a movement or change their takeoff angle or do whatever. The eurostep
is. The reason the eurostep exists is to work around the charge or position
defense. But like it's so easy for guys to slide in and just barely
be there and the guy's already taken off or close to it, Like,
we gotta get that out of the game. I think, you know,
the charge circle movement is clearly the easiest solution, but just making it so
that if there's any question at all, it's almost like a tie goes to
the runner thing. There's any question about was the guy there early enough,
the ANSWER's got to be no, No, he wasn't. It's a block.
Like, just discourage the slide in late I think would go a long
way towards getting the undercuts out of the game. Man we've we've really gone
in on the rules. I don't know who's here for that, but I
what are the rules are? On our curiosity of nobody knows. I know
you have another winner, and I have a winner loser. I'll get through
really quickly. I think yours deserves like an actual conversation. But my last
winner, well my last winner, but one that stood out to me Derek
White just I think it was clear that he was Boston's third best or third
most important player this season, drew two games of the land Hawks. Just
more aggressive on offense than he's ever been, the jumpers falling at probably an
unsustainably high clip, but the fact that he's comfortable using pull ups or just
firing off the catch. In additional way that he's moving without the ball and
able to get to the basket. He's shooting like eighty percent inside five feet
for the series where he's already taken fourteen shots. It's definitely not to say.
I think though, with the answer to this question last year have been
who's their third most important player, or even entering this season, it would
have been our W three or Markus Smart right, and maybe even Horford.
And now it's just very clearly Derek White. And I'll phrase it this way,
and I know this is spicy, but I'll throw him in the Aaron
Gordon tire like that discussion. If you set the over under at point five
career All Star appearances for Derek White, I'm not sure that I'm taking the
under. I'll say that that is spicy, that's exciting. I'm interested in
that. I mean, sorry to jump in, but like there was a
Senate there was a time when White was with the Spurs where it wasn't clear
he was this kind of player, like the ultimate glue. Guys and Spurs
fans whenever you say something nice about Derek but like no one ever talked about
him when he was in San Antonio. He's talking about him all the time.
He will you reference it. He had some great playoff moments. He
had one of the best playoff dunks in the last what ten years. Honestly,
I thought he played for the Rockets. I didn't even know he was.
It was Derek White. Anyway, continue That's all I have on Derek
White. If you have anything to add on, and he's great, Wow,
Yeah, So I'm gonna I'm gonna take the over on point five All
Star appearances. I'm feeling I'm feeling spicy. I'm gonna take the under just
to just to ship on your point. But no, I don't know he
if Aaron Gordon is considered a you know, fringe All Star, which he
kind of was for a while this year, I don't I don't know if
I bought that. But yeah, White is in that class, if not
above it, just because of uh, he could do it. He could.
There's nothing he's really not capable of doing on either side of the floor.
So yeah, he's been awesome. That's the other thing. It's just
the defense is I think we both had him on second team, and I
saw after Zach Lowe had him on his first team. Yeah, and so
it's like, yeah, I mean like that's that's a hell of a player
and my last loser that I'll get to. And this will could be outdated
or it could be exacerbated by the time someone listens to this. It's been
Knicks offense in general. I think you could point to a bunch of things.
Emmanuel Quickly has not been good, and it's playing time and is reflected
as much. Maybe the Knicks needs to give him more playing time so that
he can get in a better rhythm. He saw some shots going at the
game. End of game two, the calves are they're brutalizing Jail and Brunson
at both ends of the floor. They're just trapping him on offense. I
like that he was aggressive to start last game, but then I didn't really
love his shot selection. I'd like to see him. He's best when he's
kind of that ball mover connector while also being the primary score. And he
hasn't found that balance credit Cleveland, then they're really going after him. At
the other end, Julius Randall just been he just doesn't look like he's moving
the same. It's just to me, I can't when of course right.
And it feels more like the defense effort was there in game one wasn't there
in game two. I'm just wondering how much of that was. I'm not
trying to make excuses, but like, he didn't seem like he was moving
the same on offense either. RJ. Barrett I had I think I said
this in my overreactions to every Game one that I did on a solo podcast
this week. If you told me the Nicks could trade RJ. Barrett into
someone's cap space this summer, I might consider it, which means that I've
come from I don't know if you should include him in the Donovan Mitchell trade
to hear. I'm want to make it clear this is not a serious take.
But this guy on offense, I think he's actually been fine defensively this
year. He's bordering on really good in Game one, and that's running counter
to what we saw through the entire regular season, where he was closing out
like he had weights on his shoes. The screen navigation got worse from the
other year. I think he's still fine on ball in general. Generally,
the offense is just he doesn't have a trademark skill. His trademark skill is
the idea of his skill being getting to the basket, and when he does
get there, he can't finish. And he's just not getting there as often
as you think because he bails out, he takes these fadeaways. I saw
Stefan Bondi of The New York Killing News like tweeted this out before, and
then Jonathan Mackay of Nick's Film School, which is just one of the best
podcasts out there. By the way they cover I'll shout them out, even
though I hate their producer Andrew Claudio as a a fucking schmuck, just kidding,
I love you Claudio, like they cover the lead the right way where
it's They do everything from transactions to x's and o's to interacting with fans.
They cover every nook and cranny of it. I love I love the versatility
so quick shout out there. But RJ. Barrett had said in that comment
and Jonathan McCray john highlighted it for me, which is why I listened to
the clip at all about how his like turnarounds that he likes to get to
and we're normally falling, We're not. R J. Barrett shot thirty six
point seven percent on turnaround jumpers this year. If that's considered shots I normally
make. Oh is all I have to say. And so like I'm just
I'm not ready to pour one out for the Knicks offense. But that's just
something they need to consider. They're I think they're also general spacing viability.
They did a good job with their three point volume as the season went on,
but they I think they need more caps lock shooters on this roster.
It's something for them to monitor over the off season. Yeah, and look,
I echo what she said. The Caps defense is a tough defense to
get going against. I think I think that's got to be factored in.
But yeah, it's it's not great the Barrett stuff in particular, like it's
it's it's one of those things where for you may still be able to say,
well, but he's you know, he's still young, right, We're
almost out of We're almost out of that being like a viable rebuttal to any
criticism of him, I will say he probably needs to be traded for his
own good at this point because it's just the plug and play aspect of his
game isn't coming along, and I guess with quickly there. It's even just
like you don't want to give him agency over the bench units in heavier volume
and tips is't gonna do that anyway, just the way he's gonna staggers players.
So for him, I think he needs to be somewhere with better spacing
and that's going to allow him to play through I don't even want to stay
same mistakes but failures, and that there won't be as high stakes as high
of stakes ascribed to the outcome of his performances because the Knicks are trying to
win now, and look they should. I just don't think with Jalen bruns
In and then Julius Randalls renaissance plus the emergence of Emmanuel Quickly, I don't
know if this is the environment anymore for his offensive game to grow. Just
because he shot like negative five percent, I'm wide open three pointers for most
for most of this season, and so like he doesn't even have the plug
in play aspect of the offense down right now. Yeah, that's tough,
that's tough. I gotta I gotta quick winner here. This which is my
last one that I have, just the KD. Booker pairing. It's I
think it's not really a surprise because you know, from the second Durant got
traded, and before that, the take on Durant was always like, there's
just really no scenario that he doesn't fit into offensively because he's not someone that
has to dominate the ball. He has a ton of gravity off of it.
If you need him to score as a spot up three point shooter,
I don't know why you would ever use him that way. He could do
that. He's going to attract a ton of attention out there. He's obviously
one of the best midrange shooters ever. He can get to the basket.
His defense was awesome this year. Just totally a guy that you could integrate
anywhere. And Booker there were I mean, there are no questions about Durant
fitting Booker had very few relatively speaking, too, because he's got a lot
of that in him as well. And I think it was pretty clear that
those two respected each other a lot. But like, just looking at this
series in particular, Booker goes for forty five in Game three, and all
he does is credit Durant for opening up space for him to do that.
I mean, there's several quotes out there about him going to Durant and saying
like, you know, you made that happen for me basically, and Durant
saying like, I don't know about that. I think you're just probably really
good. So the pairing seems to work exceptionally well. Booker, by the
way, we had thirty eight in game two. He's really slacking Game two,
but he's been over sixty percent from the field in both of those games.
In two and three. Durant has had at least twenty five three of
their games to this point shot over fifty percent from the field for the series
and he's not even hitting threes yet. I mean, Durant's three ball has
been kind of mia so far that the fact that like that's not a problem
really is, I think also speaks to the value he has offensively alongside Booker.
And then Booker pointed to this too. If the adjustment then is for
the Clippers, well we got to make sure Booker doesn't get loose. Good
luck, because if you send any extra attention at Booker, now you have
one of the greatest scorers of all time and Durant that is no longer being
you know, face guarded thirty feet from the basket, and he gets to
go nuts. So I mean, not a shock, but that pairing,
even if the if the Suns don't go as far as maybe they hope to
this year, like as a foundation, just get a couple more depth pieces
around that core of you forget eight and forget Paul. It's just the Booker,
the Booker Durant duo. Like that's just gonna that's just gonna work.
There's just no scenario where that doesn't work, I think, And the last
couple of games have really borne that out. Because Booker's got on nuts and
it has He's great. Booker is one of the best three level scores in
the league. He's awesome. But a lot of that has to do with
Durant also being out there with him, and neither of them seems to have
a problem with one or the other, you know, getting what they can
get because the attention just can't. There's not enough defensive attention to like properly
cover both of those guys. The only thing I would add is, if
you went through an exercise, Let's go through the exercise. We can draft
pick five all NBA caliber players you could put anywhere with any personnel. There's
still gonna be one all NBA caliber while two elevating the players or the system
in which and around which they exist. Who is on that list? I
mean Durant for sure, right and but I think Booker Durant. I think
Yokich would be four. I don't know who the fifth would be. Yeah,
you could just say Yannis because he'd you know, you're gonna get all
these, you know. I think with Joannis and MB you have to still
kind of build ultra specifically you need the shooting and you need Yeah, that
that's fair. Yeah, that's the thing. It's difficult to come up with
those types of guns, is it, Dame Ta? You know, Tatum's
a good one. Tatum is a good one. We'll go with Tatum as
the as the fifth there then, or is it? I would say Kauai,
but the availability matters because it might be quiet. Yeah. So yeah,
eleven of ten. No notes on that. That is going to be
a scary duo even if they don't win it all this year. Do you
like how I go out, go out on limbs to close these things out
and just say things like Kevin Durant and Devin Booker are pretty good combo?
Right, Uh, let's finish with the last hot take. The Sixers are
up three too on the next first round, the Sixers look good. I'm
just gonna state, like actual truth that there's no we don't talk about facts
enough. All right? You got anything else? Or should I take us
out? No? This was already way longer than we wanted to, but
you asked the raccoon story, so I regret nothing. Thanks everybody for listening.
Make sure if you're enjoying this to rate review, subscribe follow all of
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as always with a shout out to the one and only Frank la keenan apology
to Jared Allen, and just a farewell to all the raccoons they used to
live in Dan's house.