WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:02.080 All right, I gotta you, guys, gotta because I gotta record this 2 00:00:02.080 --> 00:00:07.280 thing and I gotta run. I'm late. Ask not what your country can 3 00:00:07.320 --> 00:00:13.800 do for you, what you can do for your country, mister, tear 4 00:00:14.080 --> 00:00:24.879 down this wall, read my lists. It's the Ricochet Podcast with me Rob 5 00:00:24.920 --> 00:00:28.160 Long, I'm Lead Robinson and Charles Cook, who's filling in for James LILENX. 6 00:00:28.239 --> 00:00:32.000 And today we talked to another James, James Polus about the coming digital 7 00:00:32.039 --> 00:00:37.799 apocalypse and who and what might prevent it stick around. I agree, you'll 8 00:00:37.840 --> 00:00:42.159 never get bored when when we never get bored? Hello, and welcome to 9 00:00:42.159 --> 00:00:46.280 the Ricochet Podcast. This is number six hundred thirty two, which every time 10 00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:50.039 I say a number like dad, I can't believe that we've lasted this long 11 00:00:50.119 --> 00:00:56.359 or where did we got just healthwise? I am Rob Long, joined as 12 00:00:56.399 --> 00:01:00.399 always by my UH co founder Ricochet, Peter Robinson, and Palo Alto. 13 00:01:00.439 --> 00:01:06.439 Hello Peter, Hello Rob. And we also have with us Charles Cook, 14 00:01:06.519 --> 00:01:10.480 Charles, what is it settled down? Settled us now? Charlie, Charles, 15 00:01:10.519 --> 00:01:12.760 what is it either one? No no no no no no? Then 16 00:01:14.319 --> 00:01:19.040 Charles in England and Charlie in Florida. No work from people call me both 17 00:01:19.079 --> 00:01:22.599 and I just have run with it. I just tell people it's not Chuck, 18 00:01:23.239 --> 00:01:26.280 it's not Chuck. And speaking of not being Chuck, it's also not 19 00:01:26.480 --> 00:01:30.200 Jim. It's James Lilacs. And James is not here. James's I think 20 00:01:30.319 --> 00:01:34.079 is on the high seat somewhere. Maybe he's in Mexico. Whenever, whenever 21 00:01:34.159 --> 00:01:38.599 James actually goes on vacation, it goes someplace warm. I always feel like 22 00:01:38.840 --> 00:01:45.319 that should have been covered by his health insurance, just because he lives. 23 00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:49.959 Um. Uh, we are, of course, um, coming to you 24 00:01:51.120 --> 00:01:56.680 from the ricochet, the Master's servers that ricochet. Uh. Please um. 25 00:01:56.680 --> 00:02:00.519 And I've been in the computer sense, not in the in the on PC 26 00:02:00.680 --> 00:02:02.680 sense. If you like where you're hearing, please come and join us at 27 00:02:02.719 --> 00:02:07.000 rikshe dot com and be part of the conversation as it continues. Um. 28 00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:10.199 So there's a lot to go on here, a lot to talk about. 29 00:02:10.240 --> 00:02:15.199 And I'm used, as you know, Tom, I'm more of a disruptive 30 00:02:15.199 --> 00:02:17.560 force, that's my normal job here than actually as a leader conversational leader. 31 00:02:17.560 --> 00:02:27.840 But I'm gonna try because in the in the Lenten season, one of the 32 00:02:27.919 --> 00:02:31.800 thing, one of the things I chose not to give up was my evil, 33 00:02:34.520 --> 00:02:39.120 mean spirited glee when bad things happen to people who richly deserve it. 34 00:02:39.759 --> 00:02:46.639 So and as an exercise of that of my non goodness, I'm going to 35 00:02:46.719 --> 00:02:54.919 say, didn't Laurie Lightfoot's defeat in the Chicago mayoral and the first in mayoral 36 00:02:55.000 --> 00:03:00.439 runoff election before the runoff, didn't that just like kind of make day? 37 00:03:00.560 --> 00:03:02.080 Oh, I'm still in a good mood. It made my week, It 38 00:03:02.080 --> 00:03:09.960 turns up, just made my week. Why Why? Because, of course, 39 00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:15.560 because justice was done in some basic way. But Chicago is a town. 40 00:03:17.199 --> 00:03:23.039 Chicago is a town where democracy has always been optional, where it hasn't. 41 00:03:23.199 --> 00:03:27.919 Really, they have no deep they have his little experience of real democracy, 42 00:03:27.919 --> 00:03:31.960 as Argentina say, so in the old days when the dailies, I 43 00:03:31.960 --> 00:03:36.759 mean the real old days, when mayor Daily, when the senior mayor daily 44 00:03:37.719 --> 00:03:43.759 ran the place very interesting. He lived in a modest house. He seemed 45 00:03:43.919 --> 00:03:47.919 never to engage in any personal aggrandizement. On his way to city hall each 46 00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:53.639 morning he stopped at church for morning mass. And he ran that thing with 47 00:03:53.759 --> 00:03:59.680 the tightest fist imaginable. A buddy of mine here in California grew up. 48 00:03:59.680 --> 00:04:03.840 He was in the Lithuanian neighborhood. He was the grandson of immigrants, and 49 00:04:04.639 --> 00:04:09.599 he once went to the ward boss and said, you know what, can 50 00:04:09.639 --> 00:04:13.560 I get a job just sweeping or stacking chairs in this big convention, this 51 00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:17.639 happening the nineteen sixty eight convention. He was a kid and he just wanted 52 00:04:17.680 --> 00:04:21.399 to see the convention, and they did give him a job stacking chairs. 53 00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:28.879 But do you know who had to sign on that job, mayor Daily himself. 54 00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:33.759 Right, all that said, there's a difference between a man and a 55 00:04:33.879 --> 00:04:40.639 regime, the democratic machine that was based on neighborhoods, that was based on 56 00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:46.120 some sense of what was a decent life and what wasn't a decent life, 57 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:50.800 what was lawful and what wasn't lawful. There's a difference between that machine and 58 00:04:50.879 --> 00:04:57.279 a machine that permits a murder rate. If you live in a black neighborhood, 59 00:04:57.519 --> 00:05:00.519 good luck to you, good luck to you, especially on a weekend. 60 00:05:00.759 --> 00:05:02.879 Well, so you don't want to get shot, you don't want your 61 00:05:02.959 --> 00:05:10.319 kids shots, stay indoors that under a black mayor an African American, she 62 00:05:10.399 --> 00:05:14.920 needed to go start again. So, Charles, isn't this just one more 63 00:05:14.959 --> 00:05:20.879 confirmation that this were you gonna say this is an aftershock many a series of 64 00:05:20.920 --> 00:05:25.839 aftershocks that came after the riots of twenty twenty. It seems to me that 65 00:05:26.040 --> 00:05:32.480 this is part of that movement, the progressive city governance movement. I went 66 00:05:32.519 --> 00:05:35.439 too far and bad things happen, and now the people are pulling it back. 67 00:05:35.920 --> 00:05:39.720 But isn't this also the sign that, like, I mean, it 68 00:05:39.879 --> 00:05:42.360 made me happy because maybe thinking of oh, yeah, that's what mayor stick 69 00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:46.360 to your knitting, like stick to your knitting should be um the new Uh, 70 00:05:46.519 --> 00:05:51.439 it's the economy stupid, don't you think? No, I have a 71 00:05:51.480 --> 00:05:57.680 different view on this. Thing's all right, I'm not thrilled and gleeful in 72 00:05:57.720 --> 00:06:00.439 the way you are, Rob And are we being ve Charlie Well, I 73 00:06:00.480 --> 00:06:05.240 don't think this has restored democracy in any way. My read on this is 74 00:06:05.319 --> 00:06:17.560 that the city of Chicago is about to replace one interchangeable left leaning COG with 75 00:06:17.680 --> 00:06:24.279 another. Of course, Laurie Lightfoot had to say, but I'm black, 76 00:06:24.639 --> 00:06:30.600 but I'm a lesbian. That's the only thing that distinguishes her from the other 77 00:06:30.680 --> 00:06:33.959 twenty people lining up to take her job, whether it's in this election or 78 00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:38.519 the one after or the one after and it's not hyperbole to suggest, and 79 00:06:38.639 --> 00:06:43.000 the one after that, because the last time that Chicago had a Republican mayor 80 00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:48.720 was nineteen thirty four. I don't see this as a victory because I don't 81 00:06:48.720 --> 00:06:53.519 think anything will change. I don't think anything will change because the unions in 82 00:06:53.600 --> 00:06:59.800 Chicago are untouchable, because the piety is that every single person who is apparently 83 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:05.279 eligible to make it through as Chicago mayor has to promise failty to have not 84 00:07:05.360 --> 00:07:12.480 yet been collapsed. There's no Giuliani moment here. No, that's true, 85 00:07:12.639 --> 00:07:15.279 there's no doubt. No, I'm not I'm not suggesting that. But if 86 00:07:15.319 --> 00:07:19.279 you if if if a mayor is tossed out because the crime rates are too 87 00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:24.160 high and the person who seems to be the front runner is the person saying, 88 00:07:24.199 --> 00:07:26.839 hey, we got to get the crime rate down, isn't that a 89 00:07:26.959 --> 00:07:30.120 small incremental benefit? I mean, I agree that, I'm sure that he's 90 00:07:30.120 --> 00:07:33.519 a progressive weirdo in all sorts of ways, But you know, he's the 91 00:07:33.639 --> 00:07:40.120 ashes that the smoke is still in the air from the auto de fae of 92 00:07:40.160 --> 00:07:44.079 the previous mayor. Don't you think that's gonna matter? I suppose what I'm 93 00:07:44.120 --> 00:07:46.279 saying is. To me, this looks a little bit like a politic saying 94 00:07:46.360 --> 00:07:49.160 taxes are too low. We have to get rid of Art Laugher. Who 95 00:07:49.199 --> 00:07:55.240 do you want will take Paul Ryan. It's just not a material change. 96 00:07:55.319 --> 00:08:00.160 And yeah, she's not going to be there. But Chicago, though, 97 00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:03.639 does not seem to me to be serious about fixing what are extremely serious and 98 00:08:03.720 --> 00:08:09.879 extremely sad problems. And the fact that they've got rid of her is good. 99 00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:13.680 But I don't know. So you're just better than me, Charles. 100 00:08:13.720 --> 00:08:18.720 You just saw this. You didn't laugh and cackle gleefully. I like nothing 101 00:08:18.759 --> 00:08:24.240 more than to cackle gleefully, misfortin they deserve it. But I just don't 102 00:08:24.279 --> 00:08:30.240 think that this is quite the cathartic moment. Okay, so here we go. 103 00:08:30.399 --> 00:08:33.200 Here's Illinois, and in particular Chicago. The schools are no good, 104 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:39.759 taxes are punitive, and the regulatory regime is driving businesses out of the city, 105 00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:43.960 and crime is out of control. We have a mayoral candidate who says, 106 00:08:43.960 --> 00:08:48.480 well, let's see, I'll take on one of the three that is 107 00:08:48.519 --> 00:08:52.360 not good enough. It isn't a fundamental change in outlook. I agree, 108 00:08:52.399 --> 00:08:56.720 this guy ran the Chicago schools. That means he is clearly in bed with 109 00:08:56.759 --> 00:09:01.320 the teachers unions. The schools are not going to get He hasn't said a 110 00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:05.279 peep about cutting taxes, and in fact, it seems likely that he's going 111 00:09:05.320 --> 00:09:09.320 to ask for more time. The business community has to fund the police that 112 00:09:09.360 --> 00:09:11.960 we can all. We can see it coming. But at least he has. 113 00:09:11.919 --> 00:09:16.759 You know what I can tell you have argued Rob and me into this 114 00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:22.519 miniature kind of deminimus position. Miniature bad Charlie cheer up. It's not as 115 00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:26.039 bad as it was the day before she lost. That's about all we can 116 00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:33.919 say. But look, every time, every time, um a lor lightfoot 117 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:37.720 goes down, an angel, you know, an angel gets his wings. 118 00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:41.799 I mean it's a it's a incremental steps here. We're not going to win 119 00:09:41.879 --> 00:09:45.159 World War three? But is it also and I and we want to get 120 00:09:45.200 --> 00:09:48.279 to obviously to our guest here as an old friend of Rickechet before we do, 121 00:09:48.639 --> 00:09:50.320 isn't it part? Am I now seeing connections where there aren't any? 122 00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:54.440 So disabuse me of this, um. The DC City Council watching DC, 123 00:09:54.639 --> 00:10:01.360 which is about is a perfect progress of Eden as you can come up with. 124 00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:05.399 They came up with a result. They came up with a set of 125 00:10:05.480 --> 00:10:11.120 laws that would essentially turn DC into a law of state, much like Chicago. 126 00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:13.519 All those things have to go through Congress because of the way DC is 127 00:10:13.559 --> 00:10:26.039 governed. The Republican U Republicans passed in the House passed resolution saying that Congress 128 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:33.279 would nullify those laws. The bill is now in the Senate. Biden has 129 00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:37.080 come out essentially to support the I'm trying to get this right, so I'm 130 00:10:37.120 --> 00:10:43.120 not confusing. He won't veto the bill. He will not veto the actions 131 00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:50.919 of Congress to stop the DC City Council from essentially tossing out what we would 132 00:10:50.919 --> 00:10:56.960 consider to be just standard law and order procedures. Isn't that a small, 133 00:10:56.000 --> 00:11:01.200 incremental, little stream of life our universe, Charlie is like when you're like 134 00:11:01.360 --> 00:11:05.759 when you look on the horizon and see nothing but storms and storm clouds and 135 00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:07.679 orcs. Isn't this look I don't want to be I was going to say, 136 00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:11.080 I don't want to be that guy. But our crime ate is at 137 00:11:11.080 --> 00:11:15.840 a fifty year low, and I think that yeah, and I think that 138 00:11:15.840 --> 00:11:18.759 that is important. But I do think that you're right that, yes, 139 00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:22.399 there is a diminimus, as you put it, pushback and there is a 140 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:28.960 pattern of diminimus pushbacks. I suppose what bothers me, and I know we 141 00:11:28.039 --> 00:11:35.200 need to move on. But what bothers me is that we know how to 142 00:11:35.399 --> 00:11:39.200 avoid getting into these positions. We know better, we really know, and 143 00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:46.399 we therefore have at our disposal. And I'm saying our on behalf of people 144 00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:50.799 who live in different places than me. We have at our disposal a set 145 00:11:50.840 --> 00:11:56.200 of tools that have been proven to work again and again and again, and 146 00:11:56.240 --> 00:12:01.600 we're not doing it. And that is a choice. And I just look 147 00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:07.360 at this Laurie Lightfoot situation and I think, well, it's great that she's 148 00:12:07.399 --> 00:12:13.000 gone because she's a terrible, terrible leader and a weirdo. But I don't 149 00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:18.879 see people pulling the lever to change this across the board. But you do 150 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:24.039 see Chicagoans. You do see Chicagoans moving to Florida. Well, right, 151 00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:28.159 welcome to America. At least we do have red states here. You can 152 00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:31.639 vote for your feet, and you can sleep soundly in Florida, or you 153 00:12:31.639 --> 00:12:35.080 can sleep soundly wherever you are. That is a good segue. So just 154 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:41.679 you both stuff it. If on, if you got the right sheets. 155 00:12:41.279 --> 00:12:46.080 It's freezing here in New York, city. Um and weirdly rainy too. 156 00:12:46.360 --> 00:12:48.720 And I know it's it's cold in Los Angeles. There's a cold where you 157 00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:52.759 are, Peter, it's cold, Grace, guys, rainy, I'm gonna 158 00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:56.399 breeze right by where where Charlie's whatever, whether he's experiencing which seems rather you 159 00:12:56.440 --> 00:13:01.120 know. Anyway, Look, but there's one thing that we all enjoy, 160 00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:03.879 which is a good night's sleep. And you can stay cozy all winter long, 161 00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:07.399 or you can say relax and cool all which long to live in Florida 162 00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:09.120 where they set of buttery soft sheets from ball and Branch. They are made 163 00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:13.039 with one hundred percent organic cotton threads and they get softer with every wash. 164 00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:16.879 I am here to attest to that. I have some, and they get 165 00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:20.519 better with every wash, just like good sheets should soft. And you know, 166 00:13:20.519 --> 00:13:24.320 they remind me I was once in a very very fancy, grand old 167 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:28.519 European hotel and the sheets were the They were amazing because they were ancient and 168 00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:31.200 they were washed, you know, every day, and they were ironed and 169 00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:33.279 they were just fantastic. And that is the experience of Balling brand sheets. 170 00:13:33.519 --> 00:13:37.480 They use the highest quality threads on Earth. Their sheets are made from slow 171 00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:41.600 grown organic cotton for a superior softness and a better night's sleep. 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Get fifteen percent off your 179 00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:09.000 first set when you use promo code Ricochet at Ball and Branch dot com. 180 00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:13.480 That's Ball and Branch all one word bolll A and D branch dot com. 181 00:14:13.879 --> 00:14:18.720 The promo code is ric o'schet and we thank Ball and Branch for sponsoring the 182 00:14:18.759 --> 00:14:22.159 Riche pod test and they've been sponsored for a long time. It's a it's 183 00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:24.480 kind of nice to see this, Like, you know, I kind of 184 00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:26.960 want to buy sheets again, even though I have Balling Branch sheets in there. 185 00:14:26.960 --> 00:14:31.200 Excellent. Um So moving on, there's one more thing I want to 186 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:33.200 talk about. We're gonna put it to the end. I want to. 187 00:14:33.399 --> 00:14:35.559 I need to talk about this, the new blogger law in Florida, because 188 00:14:35.559 --> 00:14:41.639 it seems to be lighting up everyone and it seems like those stupid distinct who's 189 00:14:41.639 --> 00:14:46.360 going to be on the defensive now exactly? But before we get there, 190 00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:48.039 so I give you time now to come up a conturing view about way way 191 00:14:48.159 --> 00:14:52.399 Actually it's a good thing. Um uh. Before we talk about that, 192 00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:58.080 let's introduce or reintroduce our old friend, James Paulos. James is the editor 193 00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:00.960 at large of The American Mind at the claremline. It's He's the author of 194 00:15:01.039 --> 00:15:05.840 Human Forever. He's founder of the online publication Return. He was an editor 195 00:15:05.879 --> 00:15:07.919 in chief and one of the early founders of rickiche dot com. And we 196 00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:11.919 welcome him back to the Ricochet Podcast. James, how are you well? 197 00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:16.279 First of all, where are you well? How are you good? So? 198 00:15:16.360 --> 00:15:18.600 Where are you now? Are you in in the southern California? I 199 00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:24.919 am in Glendale, California where it is sunny and clear. It's a beautiful 200 00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:28.360 day. Man. Yeah, okay, human Charlie King so all right, 201 00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:33.799 so okay, I'll show myself out, Yeah, exactly. The book is 202 00:15:33.799 --> 00:15:41.679 called Human Forever. The subtitle is the Digital Politics of Spiritual War. What 203 00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:46.679 does that mean, Well, it means it means a couple of things. 204 00:15:46.519 --> 00:15:54.000 Technology has developed to a point where as I think, more and more people 205 00:15:54.000 --> 00:16:00.720 are noticing, Um, fundamental questions are being raised about why we humans should 206 00:16:00.759 --> 00:16:04.159 bother to do much of anything? Why should we get a job? Why 207 00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:11.840 should we um participate in public life as citizens? Why should we get married, 208 00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:12.840 why should we have children? Why should we have sex? Why should 209 00:16:12.840 --> 00:16:17.399 we leave the house, why should we leave our beds? Um? Why 210 00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:22.320 should we ever? Put has been asking just these questions, but reading my 211 00:16:22.480 --> 00:16:26.879 dream journal, etcetera. Sa, Uh, so you know, these are 212 00:16:26.960 --> 00:16:32.200 these are the ultimate questions about who and why we are who we are as 213 00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:37.240 as human beings, um. And they have ultimate answers, They have theological 214 00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:40.960 answers. These are sort of theological questions. And that's what the great religions 215 00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:45.799 of the world have been wrestling with from the beginning, and what the philosophers 216 00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:51.200 ponder and um. And so in the face of these great questions, Uh, 217 00:16:51.320 --> 00:16:55.279 there are competing answers. UM. If you you know, if you 218 00:16:55.320 --> 00:17:00.200 look at what our regime has become just since the UH, since the the 219 00:17:02.440 --> 00:17:08.759 debut of the iPhone and the development of the smartphone into a commodity, our 220 00:17:08.799 --> 00:17:12.359 regime is moving in a direction where it has very clear, and to many 221 00:17:12.359 --> 00:17:18.279 Americans, very alien and bizarre answers such as, well, we're going to 222 00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:22.839 create a social credit, social justice system, and we're going to onboard everyone 223 00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:26.160 into it, and everyone is in some sense going to be a cyborg, 224 00:17:26.119 --> 00:17:32.680 whether it's digital ID or CMDC or a combination of all the above. The 225 00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:37.880 great heroes of our society are those who are at the frontier of transhumanism, 226 00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:45.839 whether they call themselves transgender or trans whatever. And the not just the tolerance 227 00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:48.440 or the acceptance, but really the adulation, the celebration, the worship of 228 00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:53.160 these figures and of the kind of borg that that unifies them all together is 229 00:17:53.240 --> 00:18:00.000 going to be the new state. Religion, established religion, constitution doesn't extend 230 00:18:00.039 --> 00:18:03.319 into cyberspace. Um. And that's their answer. That's what's supposed to get 231 00:18:03.319 --> 00:18:08.519 our lives our is. But is anybody, but is anybody arguing in favor 232 00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:11.200 of this? It seems like every time we turn around, it's like mostly 233 00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:15.839 people arguing, I mean overwhelmingly people arguing against all of this. I mean, 234 00:18:18.799 --> 00:18:22.599 what is it they did now know that you know them suicidal ideation? 235 00:18:22.640 --> 00:18:26.440 I guess what they call it. And the depression and anxiety and young people 236 00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:32.119 has zoomed up, not since you know, Greta Durnberg's telling us we're all 237 00:18:32.119 --> 00:18:33.440 going to diaglobe. Not it's not global warming, it's none of these big 238 00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:37.480 things. It's just the fact that Instagram makes people miserable, and or Facebook 239 00:18:37.519 --> 00:18:42.359 before it, or Twitter or TikTok or snapchat. And yet what do we 240 00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:45.960 see to be on a runaway train to do all that and to use all 241 00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:48.160 of that. I mean, we're talking on zoom right now, James. 242 00:18:48.200 --> 00:18:51.599 We didn't have a podcast in two thousand and eight, two thousand and seven, 243 00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:52.920 actually we did. We've done six hundred and thirty two of these. 244 00:18:52.920 --> 00:19:00.440 Are we are we contributing to the general dehumanizing um can scade? Well, 245 00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:07.079 it's difficult because the point of the spear here is the weaponization of our communications 246 00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:12.559 technologies. And we live in a society where people are very accustomed to speaking 247 00:19:12.559 --> 00:19:15.680 their mind, to having opinions, to thinking that if they kind of get 248 00:19:15.720 --> 00:19:18.960 it right in speech, then it's only a matter of time before they get 249 00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:25.640 it right in action. And what's I think demoralizing a lot of Americans is 250 00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:27.759 discovering that, you know, the regime is moved in a direction where you 251 00:19:27.759 --> 00:19:30.119 know, you can sort of flap your lips all you want, and it's 252 00:19:30.119 --> 00:19:33.200 really not going to change anything. People in charge are folks that you can't 253 00:19:33.279 --> 00:19:37.400 vote in, you can't vote out. They control the technological infrastructure in a 254 00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:42.480 way that is impenetrable and inaccessible to the practice of citizenship. It's bad stuff, 255 00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:45.839 but you're right, there are a lot of people who are who are 256 00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:48.279 reacting against it. Could I double back on Rob's question a little bit, 257 00:19:48.440 --> 00:19:52.480 No, not a little bit, sort of reframe the whole the repeat the 258 00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:56.640 question actually so I can see we can all see it. We can all 259 00:19:56.759 --> 00:20:03.200 feel it that this move in the direction AI of a surveillance state of social 260 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:08.720 credit. We can all feel it happening. I got censored for ten days 261 00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:14.279 during COVID. We all know people Ja Bardacharia's story is horrifying. We can 262 00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:18.440 see it happening, we can feel it happening. Is it happening out of 263 00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:26.079 sheer inadvertence or are there actually people who do indeed make have convinced themselves that 264 00:20:26.119 --> 00:20:30.720 the argument you just put is the correct argument and that we ought to be 265 00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:36.839 doing this, and do those people inhabit the deep state? I exchanged example 266 00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:41.480 of question or sort of illustration. I was exchanging emails the other day with 267 00:20:41.559 --> 00:20:45.480 David Galertner, who knows a thing or two about this, the Yale computer 268 00:20:45.559 --> 00:20:48.839 scientist who he's not an old man, but he was a sort of a 269 00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:52.359 genius very young. He helped to invent the discipline of computer science. And 270 00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:56.640 he said that within a couple of decades, we won't even have the option 271 00:20:56.559 --> 00:21:02.759 of driving our own cars. But that's because there will be planners, city 272 00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:06.000 planners, people in the Suddenly it will become the argument. And if you're 273 00:21:06.039 --> 00:21:11.960 in Manhattan and they can actually take control of traffic, accidents go down, 274 00:21:11.079 --> 00:21:15.039 the city becomes much more livable. Do you see what I mean? It'll 275 00:21:15.079 --> 00:21:18.759 be kind of inadvertent adoption of these things. Is that the path or are 276 00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:25.680 there really are there journals and people online? I'm sure actually exchanging ideas and 277 00:21:25.759 --> 00:21:29.240 saying, you know what, the CCP has it right. We should have 278 00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:32.599 a social credit in this system. Oh yeah, I think you can see 279 00:21:32.599 --> 00:21:37.359 it openly, whether it's World Economic Forum or other faora you've got. You 280 00:21:37.400 --> 00:21:41.000 know, the five eyes is working as a single unit, and that, 281 00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:45.519 you know, that might be comforting at a time when there's a serious great 282 00:21:45.559 --> 00:21:48.880 power conflict, but when you look at the way that that power has been 283 00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:52.680 wielded over the course of the pandemic and beyond, whether it's in Australia or 284 00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:57.680 Canada, or New Zealand or the UK, the boot comes down at home 285 00:21:57.799 --> 00:22:03.319 before it comes on anyone abroad, and that's a serious problem. The indications 286 00:22:03.319 --> 00:22:08.200 are everywhere, and because these are the theological stakes here, any powerful answer 287 00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:12.599 that's going to come forward for how we should you know, do a great 288 00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:17.400 reset or refound society, it's going to be rooted in some kind of theological 289 00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:19.279 propositions. You look around the world. The Chinese are doing this with Taoism, 290 00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:22.680 the Russians are doing with Russian Orthodoxy. The Vatican wants to be a 291 00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:26.839 big player and how that he regulates technology. The Israelis have their own thing 292 00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:32.839 going on. Every civilization state that is trying to assert and secure its digital 293 00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:37.359 sovereignty is doing so by trying to reorient public life and governance on the basis 294 00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:41.319 of their oldest religious roots. If those are my choices, I wish to 295 00:22:41.319 --> 00:22:45.559 be ruled by the Vatican, because the ineptitude will create all kinds of freedoms 296 00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:49.039 for us. Well, I think it's interesting, you know, you'll see 297 00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:55.000 sort of which, which of these which of these models is capable of of 298 00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:57.359 doing what it promises? And then I think you're right. I think as 299 00:22:59.079 --> 00:23:02.319 some of these gray is of sovereignty open up, you're going to get all 300 00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:07.240 kinds of weird and unusual alternatives cropping up where they're able to do so. 301 00:23:07.240 --> 00:23:11.720 So, first off, I just want to congratulate you for the amount of 302 00:23:11.720 --> 00:23:15.759 wine that you have over your right hand shoulder. That is suppressive collection to 303 00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:22.079 rive on my own, I have an extreme question. I'm going to put 304 00:23:22.119 --> 00:23:27.680 it in extreme terms. What you're describing is dystopian. What you're describing is 305 00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:34.680 something that any free person should want to avoid. Should we want to destroy 306 00:23:36.759 --> 00:23:41.240 the technology that's enabled this? And because usually you hear people say here are 307 00:23:41.240 --> 00:23:44.519 all the good things about the internet, and here are the bad things. 308 00:23:45.559 --> 00:23:49.880 But if you're right, the good things will not offset or outweigh the bad 309 00:23:49.920 --> 00:23:59.559 things. Should we want to destroy this digital environment we've created? Well, 310 00:23:59.599 --> 00:24:03.079 I think that I would answer that in a couple ways, there are some 311 00:24:03.160 --> 00:24:07.640 things which are likely to destroy themselves. I think if you look at the 312 00:24:07.640 --> 00:24:11.400 course of human history, you will see that there is something of a pattern 313 00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:15.759 where terrible ideas that are pursued fanatically tend to implode on themselves, and I 314 00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:19.160 think some of that is going to take place. However, at the same 315 00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:25.880 time, it seems clear that unless there's a real sort of planetary cataclysm, 316 00:24:26.839 --> 00:24:30.359 much of this technology is not going to go away, and it's not going 317 00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:34.039 to be destroyed, simply because it's very difficult to destroy it, whether in 318 00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:40.559 its own right or because it's so powerful that some sort of sovereign organization is 319 00:24:40.599 --> 00:24:45.880 going to be there with guns and whatever and prohibit it from being destroyed. 320 00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:48.960 And it's true that, you know, even on the level of like well, 321 00:24:49.119 --> 00:24:52.400 maybe if we just got rid of the bad guys, everything would be 322 00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:56.440 okay, it's very difficult to destroy that class of people, even if they 323 00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:00.319 were all sort of terrible and needed to be got rid of. There are 324 00:25:00.359 --> 00:25:02.720 going to be evil people at every level of society, so you know, 325 00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:07.359 your mileage may very I think the important thing is that we need to understand 326 00:25:08.759 --> 00:25:17.480 and live out ways of interacting and using our technology that actually strengthen our way 327 00:25:17.480 --> 00:25:21.200 of life, strength in our form of government, strengthen our humanity, and 328 00:25:21.240 --> 00:25:25.119 that can be done. Americans used to be very confident with regard to their 329 00:25:25.160 --> 00:25:27.359 technology, getting their hands dirty, rolling up their sleeves, putting their hands 330 00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:30.839 on their tools and their machines. And at some point that has that has 331 00:25:30.920 --> 00:25:34.559 changed. It's been it's been to a degree surrendered into a degree taken away. 332 00:25:34.759 --> 00:25:40.559 And now many Americans feel alienated from their technology, intimidated by their technology, 333 00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:45.759 um subservient to their technology, enslaved by their technology. And the reality 334 00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:49.279 is that there are some tools out there that are very powerful that you don't 335 00:25:49.319 --> 00:25:53.839 need to be, you know, an electrical engineer or a Silicon Valley nerd 336 00:25:53.960 --> 00:25:56.559 or a blue check or anything else. You can put your hands on them 337 00:25:56.640 --> 00:26:00.200 right now and start using them to do those things that strengthen us. I 338 00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:04.720 published Human Forever on bitcoin. It's it's encrypton chain, it's for sale, 339 00:26:04.759 --> 00:26:08.960 and bitcoin worked out financially, which you know, was a proof of concept 340 00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:11.880 for me. But really I wanted the medium to be the message of the 341 00:26:11.920 --> 00:26:15.960 book. You do not need to be some kind of super expert nerd in 342 00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:18.000 order to do this. The technology is advanced to a point where, yeah, 343 00:26:18.039 --> 00:26:22.599 you know, you can do an end run around the New York publishing 344 00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:26.039 industry or around the you know, around Wall Street and just do the stuff 345 00:26:26.079 --> 00:26:29.920 yourself. Yes, the regulators are circling, but that's all the more reason 346 00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:33.680 why, you know, Americans really need to become adult about this and be 347 00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:37.400 willing to take one step in what might be an unfamiliar direction in order to 348 00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:40.720 reclaim some of the least. So there's nothing lud eyed about you. You're 349 00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:44.680 using technology to combat the technology. Well, I mean, if only it 350 00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:48.119 were, you know, if only it were as easy as just driving a 351 00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:51.759 truck up to the data center and there's a kaboom and everything goes back to 352 00:26:51.799 --> 00:26:55.319 normal. Well, I'm getting back to brother Charles here down in Florida, 353 00:26:55.480 --> 00:26:59.039 who seems to be coming very close to suggesting that if there were a button 354 00:26:59.079 --> 00:27:02.359 he could push to a eliminate the smartphone, he'd do it. Well, 355 00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:07.519 I'm asking given the conclusion, he's just asking, He's just asking. Look, 356 00:27:07.559 --> 00:27:11.720 I'm obviously very much pro technology. I co own a technology company. 357 00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:18.039 Just I'm just asking that if I believe what James is saying I would wonder 358 00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:26.000 whether the whole thing ought to be neute. Well, if if that were 359 00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:27.680 an option, maybe more people would be trying it out. But I think 360 00:27:27.680 --> 00:27:30.799 the fact that no one is trying reflects that it's not really an option. 361 00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:37.240 The root of the issue is us, and if we become obsessed with trying 362 00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:41.880 to create an alternate universe of our own device, if we become obsessed with 363 00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:45.319 becoming as God's, if we become obsessed with destroying or obsolescing our own humanity, 364 00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:49.440 things will continue to go in a dark and horrible direction. And the 365 00:27:49.480 --> 00:27:53.319 problems you gotta get us to give up some of the good stuff. Like 366 00:27:53.359 --> 00:27:57.079 I'm on the subway. You're on the subway. Um, everyone's on their 367 00:27:57.079 --> 00:28:00.160 phones. It's nice people on their phones. They just they're not making noise, 368 00:28:00.200 --> 00:28:03.599 they're not even looking at each other. They're just on the subways and 369 00:28:03.759 --> 00:28:07.960 everybody's nice in their own cocoon. I like that. I understand it's probably 370 00:28:07.960 --> 00:28:11.920 a benefit to having everyone is a part of a civilized group. We're all 371 00:28:11.960 --> 00:28:14.400 on the subway car together, and we're all going to be humans together and 372 00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:17.039 make eye contact. I don't want to do that in New York City, 373 00:28:17.079 --> 00:28:18.799 I like it that. I like when people are very busying themselves with their 374 00:28:18.920 --> 00:28:23.759 you know, games or whatever. It used to be paperbacks. Yeah, 375 00:28:25.319 --> 00:28:27.599 it was always kind of like spooky eye contact with a weirdo. Now the 376 00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:30.039 weirdo's got an iPhone. I have to worry about him. It's very hard 377 00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:34.799 to stop. Sorry, I'm assuming that I'm not the weirdo. So let 378 00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:37.440 me let me pick this to the to the group. Here is something a 379 00:28:37.480 --> 00:28:42.359 friend of mine, very smart, very accomplished, technological tech entrepreneur, very 380 00:28:42.359 --> 00:28:48.640 successful tech entrepreneur, told me recently is what he tells his children, and 381 00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:52.319 they're I think, you know, teenagers or maybe older teenagers. So there 382 00:28:52.519 --> 00:28:57.240 are three things you need to know about the future. Three crucial things for 383 00:28:57.279 --> 00:29:08.160 the future. One blockchain, two machine learning. Three Jesus, because if 384 00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:12.119 you have the first two and you don't have the third. I mean he 385 00:29:12.119 --> 00:29:15.720 he sort of, I mean he said Jesus, but he sort of. 386 00:29:15.759 --> 00:29:18.759 He means it in the lasts, not an episcopalion. I gather this is 387 00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:22.160 in fact, it is an episcopalian really, And he said that the US. 388 00:29:22.599 --> 00:29:27.000 Yeah, yeah's right. The last one is what makes the first two 389 00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:33.720 tolerable, not dystopian. And if you have the first two and you don't 390 00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:37.880 have the last one, you don't have the spiritual piece, the human piece. 391 00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:41.279 I'd say, right then, the first two are inevitably going to turn 392 00:29:42.559 --> 00:29:47.400 bad. Is that what do you think? Yeah, that's where this is 393 00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:48.440 going. I mean, look, we need to catechize our bots. If 394 00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:52.440 we're not catechising our bots, someone else is catechizing theirs to tell us what 395 00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:56.519 to do and how to live and who we are as human beings. Um, 396 00:29:56.079 --> 00:30:00.039 you know, it's it's the form of a all of this technology. 397 00:30:00.200 --> 00:30:10.720 You know, that's this innumerable, invisible, instantaneously communicating um entities until you 398 00:30:10.759 --> 00:30:15.000 know, twenty years ago, fifteen years ago, the only the only entities 399 00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:18.319 that people human beings thought could do these kinds of things where angels and demons. 400 00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:21.720 So the spiritual stakes are baked right in. And the form of all 401 00:30:21.759 --> 00:30:26.880 that technology which most people interact with, is as as something that's invisible is 402 00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:30.480 like is like a big swarm, a swarm that that is engulfing the planet. 403 00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:33.839 And so when you're thinking theologically, when you're thinking about Jesus, you're 404 00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:37.359 thinking about religion. Um, yes, you're thinking about you know, the 405 00:30:37.400 --> 00:30:40.359 message of the ancient church, which is, if you put your faith and 406 00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:42.400 your hope in your senses and your passions, you will be led astray and 407 00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:45.640 destroyed. Um. And these are devices that encourage us to do that, 408 00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:52.000 or give us a greater temptation than ever before. Does this explain Asbury Kentucky 409 00:30:52.599 --> 00:30:56.759 through the Revival an amazing story? Did you let him talking about Charlie? 410 00:30:57.039 --> 00:31:00.880 I do, and to a degree I think think it does. But I 411 00:31:00.920 --> 00:31:07.720 also think you know that that religion quote unquote is not enough in order to 412 00:31:08.799 --> 00:31:15.400 assert some kind of real mastery and authority over something like the digital swarm. 413 00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:21.640 You need a kind of human body, a kind of spiritual body that is 414 00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:25.640 that is bigger, that has that spiritual authority. And I think that's going 415 00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:29.200 to be the church. You know, if if everyone's just kind of randomly 416 00:31:29.240 --> 00:31:33.480 gathering together and standing in rooms and praying a lot, you know, obviously 417 00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:37.839 that seems like a step in the right direction. But I think it's going 418 00:31:37.839 --> 00:31:41.039 to be organized or powerful enough. Now we need to go to the the 419 00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:49.279 house Atheist Charles Well, I wonder why you think now is different. I'm 420 00:31:49.279 --> 00:31:52.759 not suggesting that it's not, but if you look at for example, the 421 00:31:53.240 --> 00:31:59.319 Pessimist archive accounts on Twitter. I don't know if you've seen this, but 422 00:31:59.440 --> 00:32:07.440 it has all sorts of warnings that were issued in newspapers and from religious authorities 423 00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:12.559 and from speakers and critics and politicians throughout history, from the invention of the 424 00:32:12.559 --> 00:32:17.400 printing press to the radio to video games in the nineteen seventies. What is 425 00:32:17.400 --> 00:32:24.119 it about now that makes this so complete? Is it that the Internet is 426 00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:30.680 all encompassing in a way that the radio was not. Is it the acquiescence 427 00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:35.400 of politics? What's the difference? Well, I think that the difference is 428 00:32:35.440 --> 00:32:38.559 one of scale. And this is something that scales up to the level of 429 00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:45.200 incasing the Earth in a sheath of satellites, all the way down to the 430 00:32:45.240 --> 00:32:47.720 molecular level, all the way down to you know, okay, we're going 431 00:32:47.720 --> 00:32:52.599 to immortalize some brain cells and hook them up to some wires and turn them 432 00:32:52.599 --> 00:32:58.200 into organoid robots. Like it is saturating every level of life at a scale 433 00:32:58.440 --> 00:33:05.240 that is super that is that is unhuman and I think often anti human um 434 00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:07.680 But look, we can we can do this with any kind of technology. 435 00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:13.039 And it's true that during the Industrial Revolution there was it was the latest and 436 00:33:13.079 --> 00:33:17.880 greatest way of of of dehumanizing people. And if you go back to you 437 00:33:17.920 --> 00:33:24.079 know, the new Soviet Man with the Russian Communists, they were trying to 438 00:33:24.079 --> 00:33:27.759 do just this. They were trying to get to post humanity. They were 439 00:33:27.799 --> 00:33:31.119 trying to use technology to leverage us out of our human condition, out of 440 00:33:31.119 --> 00:33:36.640 our given human being, and create a kind of cyborg superorganism. That's what 441 00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:38.799 they wanted to do. Then, Um, that's what's going on now that 442 00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:42.240 that same kind of effort, and so none of it should, really, 443 00:33:42.279 --> 00:33:45.400 you're right, be that shocking. Um, if you do sort of go 444 00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:47.759 back and read you know, the ancient Church and the Desert Fathers and all 445 00:33:47.759 --> 00:33:52.359 those guys and the saints, none of them would be surprised by what's going 446 00:33:52.359 --> 00:33:54.720 on right now because it all fits the pattern. And the pattern is the 447 00:33:54.799 --> 00:33:59.359 arrogance of man and the desire to become as God's um, and the hope 448 00:33:59.799 --> 00:34:05.559 of of using our tools, dead matter, the material world to create a 449 00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:08.079 sort of you know, to become the demiurges of a new universe that we 450 00:34:08.119 --> 00:34:12.960 can disappear into forever. So so to Charlie, if I may, to 451 00:34:13.039 --> 00:34:20.280 Charlie's point, what's different now? Two questions for the House. Well, 452 00:34:20.519 --> 00:34:22.519 one question for the House and one for Charlie. Here's the question for the 453 00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:28.360 House. If David Gallertner is correct, and I can see no way to 454 00:34:28.440 --> 00:34:35.599 gainsay him, that the interior political dynamic of self driving vehicles is that we 455 00:34:35.639 --> 00:34:39.840 will no longer be permitted to drive our cars. If that's correct. Does 456 00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:45.039 that feel like a loss of freedom? Does it feel to me? It 457 00:34:45.079 --> 00:34:47.599 does? Oh? Yeah, okay, So that's item one and then item 458 00:34:47.639 --> 00:34:52.480 two. Charlie, you'll correct me on this, you'll actually know this. 459 00:34:52.639 --> 00:34:55.199 I have a vague impression from reading over the years this piece, that piece 460 00:34:55.280 --> 00:35:00.840 on Britain. As far as I can recall, in the Western world, 461 00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:06.880 Britain has the policing. The police in Britain have more cameras in public places 462 00:35:06.880 --> 00:35:08.639 than any other country in Europe, and far more than we have in the 463 00:35:08.719 --> 00:35:17.159 United States. Are you has that changed the feel of everyday life in Britain? 464 00:35:17.239 --> 00:35:22.320 Does it mean anything to box the streets of London and now to know 465 00:35:22.440 --> 00:35:28.480 that the police are watching you and there's facial recognition technology scanning the crowd for 466 00:35:29.800 --> 00:35:32.400 the original idea was terrorists, but who knows what all kinds of categories people 467 00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:37.079 are being put into. Does it feel different? Yeah, there's a poem 468 00:35:37.119 --> 00:35:40.360 I forget who it's by, has this line and it all watched over by 469 00:35:40.440 --> 00:35:46.599 machines of loving grace, which is creepy as how, That's what I feel 470 00:35:46.679 --> 00:35:52.719 like walking through London. I've written about this a lot. The British comfort 471 00:35:52.840 --> 00:35:59.880 with mass surveillance of all sorts is bizarre to me, especially given it nominally 472 00:36:00.119 --> 00:36:06.480 was supposed to be the precursor to American liberties, including the Fourth Amendment on 473 00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:15.719 the the your first question cars, I've actually called Peter for a twenty eighth 474 00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:25.239 amendment to the Constitution that prevents the government from passing laws that force people into 475 00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:30.480 vehicles over which they have no control. Because keep your hands off my golf 476 00:36:30.519 --> 00:36:35.239 code, I'll certainly golf. It will be the first line of the amendment. 477 00:36:35.320 --> 00:36:45.840 But the difference now with cars that drive themselves is that you cannot have 478 00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:52.519 a car that drives itself without that cars being tracked. Car has, by 479 00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:54.920 definition, if it is to drive itself, to know where it is, 480 00:36:55.119 --> 00:36:59.159 and to know where it is, it has to be connected to the GPS 481 00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:01.840 network and probably to the Internet. And as a result, there is no 482 00:37:01.920 --> 00:37:07.280 way of doing that without surveillance. And so, although I don't objective people 483 00:37:07.360 --> 00:37:09.480 want to turn on their GPS, I do it myself. The idea that 484 00:37:09.519 --> 00:37:15.079 they would be forced to I find extraordinarily creepy. And so I mean, 485 00:37:15.159 --> 00:37:17.079 I think there's a massive loss of liberty, and one one that I would 486 00:37:17.079 --> 00:37:20.880 oppose. Yeah, well, I mean I was gonna say, when they 487 00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:23.079 when they come to take your liberty, I mean normally and not in totalitarian 488 00:37:23.239 --> 00:37:27.320 regimes, but in these kinds of regimes they first it comes as a form 489 00:37:27.320 --> 00:37:30.480 of a present, right. I mean, the technology behind GPS isn't the 490 00:37:30.599 --> 00:37:37.079 map technology it has. The missing piece of data for traffic has always been 491 00:37:37.079 --> 00:37:42.719 the central brain doesn't know where you're going. And once the central brain knows 492 00:37:42.719 --> 00:37:44.960 where you're going, right, I mean, it used to be you get 493 00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:47.239 in the car, you get in the in the car, you drive somewhere, 494 00:37:47.639 --> 00:37:52.079 only you behind the wheel and any of your pastors know where you're going. 495 00:37:52.519 --> 00:37:53.840 Now, of course the central brain does if you use GPS, because 496 00:37:53.840 --> 00:37:57.679 you've told it where you're going, and so it can you know, it's 497 00:37:57.719 --> 00:38:00.960 only a matter of a few steps from that was the one un missing piece 498 00:38:00.960 --> 00:38:04.800 of data that they needed, because that's the one piece of data that's inside 499 00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:07.800 your head. Everything else is public, but it makes life easier. Right, 500 00:38:07.840 --> 00:38:10.519 So what I'm saying is that when I come to take your take your 501 00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:15.880 liberties like this, I first give you a gift that you really prize well 502 00:38:16.039 --> 00:38:21.079 gift, But then there's also a lot of moral bullying that's involved. I've 503 00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:23.599 tried to game this out, and I think you're right. It will be 504 00:38:23.639 --> 00:38:30.920 sold as an advantage to you. But all of the rhetoric we hear around 505 00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:35.280 say gun control is instantly transferable to driving. I mean, driving is far 506 00:38:35.360 --> 00:38:42.599 far more deadly in the United States right than say mass shootings are, and 507 00:38:42.719 --> 00:38:46.360 so we will hear how many more have to die. We'll hear sub stories 508 00:38:46.360 --> 00:38:50.840 about people who died in car accidents, which is of course horrible, it 509 00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:58.159 is part of a free society. We will be told that human beings are 510 00:38:58.320 --> 00:39:02.599 irresponsible and that they can't be trusted. Of course, if America gets to 511 00:39:02.599 --> 00:39:06.559 the point of which it's trying to do this, at least federally, some 512 00:39:06.599 --> 00:39:08.880 other country will have done it first. So they'll say, well, they 513 00:39:09.039 --> 00:39:14.880 already did it in Sweden and Germany. And look at these civilized nations who 514 00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:19.840 when they had car crashes. Congress acted. Um, I just think every 515 00:39:19.880 --> 00:39:23.679 single trick that we already have will be applied to this. But I guess 516 00:39:23.719 --> 00:39:28.719 what I'm saying is that there's there's something about gun control that's clear to me 517 00:39:29.320 --> 00:39:36.400 that it's the state imposing a regulation on an unwilling population, especially donors. 518 00:39:36.480 --> 00:39:38.960 Right. But I think what James talking about, James chump jump in is 519 00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:44.000 that is that there's a complicit like it's scary. I don't know, like 520 00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:46.599 maybe I kind of don't mind it. Like you know, rich people during 521 00:39:46.639 --> 00:39:50.079 COVID were like, yeah, you know, it wasn't in Lockdown's not so 522 00:39:50.119 --> 00:39:52.159 bad. I get my food delivered from somebody he's outside. I get to 523 00:39:52.159 --> 00:39:54.800 work on my laptop. That's a regulation, but it's not the worst thing 524 00:39:54.800 --> 00:39:57.840 in the world. I get to hang out at home and I don't have 525 00:39:57.880 --> 00:40:01.639 to go to work. And the when they come and they start ebbing away 526 00:40:01.679 --> 00:40:09.239 at your human freedoms, isn't isn't the biggest piece of that our acquiescence to 527 00:40:09.360 --> 00:40:13.000 it, because it comes like candy, like, oh, this is to 528 00:40:13.119 --> 00:40:16.880 be easy. The worst freedom is nothing if you don't care about your humanity, 529 00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:22.599 If our humanity itself is totally disenchanted. If our connection with the divine 530 00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:25.559 has been totally severed, and if people think that that human beings suck, 531 00:40:25.960 --> 00:40:30.719 that the existence of humanity is in an injustice, that we're obsolete, that 532 00:40:30.800 --> 00:40:34.679 we deserve to be replaced, then we will be replaced. It's like, 533 00:40:34.719 --> 00:40:36.679 you know, John, John, and Yoko. It is saying like war 534 00:40:36.800 --> 00:40:38.880 is over if you want it, well, like humanity is over if you 535 00:40:38.920 --> 00:40:45.679 want it. And and unless we do, unless we muster the spiritual authority 536 00:40:46.000 --> 00:40:52.320 to insist once again that actually, yes, the body is sacred, that 537 00:40:52.519 --> 00:40:57.559 it is inviolable, Yes, the soul exists. Yes we are not just 538 00:40:57.800 --> 00:41:02.000 organisms that have appeared on this on this rock that's twirling through space. Then 539 00:41:02.039 --> 00:41:07.719 we're gonna get rolled. It's that simple, James is really in my this 540 00:41:07.840 --> 00:41:13.360 is subjective. This is just points of evidence. But I sit and I 541 00:41:13.400 --> 00:41:19.199 work in the middle of Stanford University, which is the go go spot for 542 00:41:19.519 --> 00:41:27.840 tech right and has been for three four decades now, and particularly with this 543 00:41:27.960 --> 00:41:30.599 chat what it was, the thing called the chat bot, It's called what 544 00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:35.159 is it called GBT? Thank you very much chat GBT. The kids, 545 00:41:36.199 --> 00:41:42.599 there's a kind of Scooby Doo moment there's a kind of role tech. Maybe 546 00:41:43.320 --> 00:41:47.719 maybe the humanities have something to say to us after all. Maybe, of 547 00:41:47.719 --> 00:41:52.239 course I'll do my major in CS, but maybe i'd better minor in history 548 00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:59.599 or philosophy. Maybe maybe we need to discover not only how to parallel process, 549 00:41:59.639 --> 00:42:02.199 but what it means to be human. There's just just this sudden The 550 00:42:02.280 --> 00:42:07.639 suddenness of the things just stuns me. And I'm sure that James is onto 551 00:42:07.679 --> 00:42:13.199 it. There's a there's a kind of pulling up short and saying, maybe 552 00:42:13.239 --> 00:42:16.840 before we go too much farther with tech, we ought to stop and think 553 00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:21.280 what the traditions have to say to us about what it means to be human. 554 00:42:22.079 --> 00:42:25.800 Kind of thrilling for an old English major like me, and you too, 555 00:42:25.880 --> 00:42:29.440 Rob, Yes, well maybe I mean, I guess I said, 556 00:42:29.440 --> 00:42:32.559 any sen I sense it among to quote a great philosopher, Bob Dylan. 557 00:42:32.679 --> 00:42:37.719 You know, everybody's got to serve somebody. The human beings are worshipful creatures, 558 00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:40.239 no matter what the atheists like to tell us. And if we are 559 00:42:40.280 --> 00:42:45.159 not worshiping God, we're worshiping something else, whether it's a device in our 560 00:42:45.199 --> 00:42:52.159 hands, or an abstract idea, or or a cyborg entity that swallows up 561 00:42:52.239 --> 00:42:55.280 the earth. Um, and so you know, I yeah, it's great 562 00:42:55.320 --> 00:43:00.400 to to you know, be literate and to remember that there are thousands of 563 00:43:00.519 --> 00:43:05.599 years of written record of intelligence and excellence in human flourishing and sensitivity and love 564 00:43:05.599 --> 00:43:08.239 and all that. But if if we're not kneeling in the right direction, 565 00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:13.800 then we're going to be kneeling in the wrong direction. Okay, um, 566 00:43:14.119 --> 00:43:16.159 I can't top that, But I can't ask you this question. How hard 567 00:43:16.239 --> 00:43:19.719 is it to get your damn book now done? Now that I know I 568 00:43:19.719 --> 00:43:22.000 can't go to the bookstore and get it, is it like a thing where 569 00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:23.639 I gotta go and have a digital wallet? I do a coin base. 570 00:43:23.920 --> 00:43:27.960 It's very easy. You don't even need to you don't even need to leave 571 00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:34.559 your house. Just go to canonic dot x y z that c A n 572 00:43:34.639 --> 00:43:39.079 O n iic dot x y z u. The book is Human Forever and 573 00:43:39.559 --> 00:43:44.960 canonicu founded by a friend of mine. They just opened up their beta to 574 00:43:45.039 --> 00:43:50.559 the public, which means that anyone yourself included, can hop on and uh 575 00:43:50.679 --> 00:43:55.599 and upload your manuscript and have it encoded onto the bitcoin blockchain, and you 576 00:43:55.599 --> 00:44:01.440 yourself can sell it and in bitcoin for for any of the major bitcoin chains. 577 00:44:02.039 --> 00:44:06.480 Uh, start making money now, he speaks the truth. I just 578 00:44:06.599 --> 00:44:09.800 did it. I just did it, canonic dot x y Z and boom 579 00:44:10.239 --> 00:44:16.480 human. I got to tell you it may be too easy. I think 580 00:44:16.480 --> 00:44:20.519 you should put in a few more thresholds there. Hey James, it was 581 00:44:20.519 --> 00:44:22.840 great to talk to you. Such a pleasure. Thank you, guys. 582 00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:28.800 See you secure, We'll see you that its top Yeah, yes, all 583 00:44:28.880 --> 00:44:31.599 right, see you in the president. Thanks James. Uh. You know 584 00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:35.559 you keep thinking that you're old, Peter, but the truth is that you 585 00:44:35.639 --> 00:44:38.320 might live to see this because it is possible to expand, extend your lifespan 586 00:44:38.400 --> 00:44:43.039 and feel younger at the same time. According to a Harvard it's a good 587 00:44:43.039 --> 00:44:49.880 segue. It is a good segue. It was a good segue or scientist 588 00:44:50.039 --> 00:44:53.199 and Nobel Prize winning m breakthrough artists. There is a way to do all 589 00:44:53.239 --> 00:44:58.440 of these things, and it is by lengthening you're telomeres. Now, telomeres 590 00:44:58.559 --> 00:45:00.280 what protects your DNA and they play a critical role in the aging process. 591 00:45:00.280 --> 00:45:04.840 But many of us struggle with shortening telomeres thanks to stress on healthy food, 592 00:45:04.840 --> 00:45:08.920 obesity, that kind of thing. That's why we recommend youth switch. 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That's youth 601 00:45:44.360 --> 00:45:50.039 Switch md O, one word youth Switch wi tchmd dot com, slash Ricochet. 602 00:45:50.280 --> 00:45:52.159 Order youth Switch today. You know, I just got my bottle UM 603 00:45:52.719 --> 00:45:57.760 two weeks ago, and so I'll report back. It sounds I already already 604 00:45:57.760 --> 00:46:00.559 think I'm smarter. UM don't know about living longer, but we'll find out. 605 00:46:01.280 --> 00:46:05.280 We thank you switch there. We will well, I will find out 606 00:46:05.320 --> 00:46:09.519 you won't you that's true? Will the last thing I'll find out, Um, 607 00:46:09.920 --> 00:46:13.800 But we thank you switched there. A new sponsor and we thank them 608 00:46:13.800 --> 00:46:19.360 for joining us and sponsoring the Rick Shape podcast. So wait, um, 609 00:46:19.519 --> 00:46:22.559 I was gonna ask you, Charlie about this stupid blogger laws. So the 610 00:46:22.679 --> 00:46:28.079 law is in Florida that's been proposed. It sounds dumb, it sounds kind 611 00:46:28.119 --> 00:46:30.480 of pointless, but it sounds like a kind of thing that everybody's getting in 612 00:46:30.519 --> 00:46:37.800 there upset about. Essentially, what does the law say? Okay, well, 613 00:46:37.880 --> 00:46:42.519 Peter said, I had some time to think up my my pushback. 614 00:46:42.599 --> 00:46:46.000 I actually wrote about this this morning, so I'm already committed to that position. 615 00:46:46.760 --> 00:46:52.239 And that position is, this is an unbelievably dumb idea. It is 616 00:46:53.000 --> 00:47:01.800 unconstitutional federally, and it's unconstitutional under the Florida state constitution. The idea is 617 00:47:02.280 --> 00:47:07.719 that if you are a blogger whatever that means, who wants to criticize the 618 00:47:07.800 --> 00:47:15.159 executive branch in Florida and everyone in it, then you have to register with 619 00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:21.239 the state within five days of doing so. Presumptively unconstitutional. It's it's bad 620 00:47:21.239 --> 00:47:22.880 on the merits. But here's my defense of it. We're not of it, 621 00:47:23.159 --> 00:47:30.880 but here's my caveat this one guy. It's not a bill, it's 622 00:47:30.920 --> 00:47:36.639 not de Santis. No, this is reported because it's Florida. I said, 623 00:47:36.719 --> 00:47:45.280 this is Flora the legislative session. The truth is, it's one guy 624 00:47:45.320 --> 00:47:47.920 from Seminole County who's a state senator who just won for the first time, 625 00:47:49.559 --> 00:47:53.599 who wrote this bill, sponsored his bill, said hey, is there anyone 626 00:47:53.639 --> 00:47:57.800 who wants to come along with me on this? And met with silence and 627 00:47:57.840 --> 00:48:04.119 tumbleweeds at this happens. Florida is only in the legislature, is only in 628 00:48:04.159 --> 00:48:07.639 session for two months every year, and as a result, the majority of 629 00:48:07.679 --> 00:48:12.639 the work that is done there is going to make it into legislation and then 630 00:48:12.800 --> 00:48:19.880 into signed legislation after that is done before those two months start pre filling. 631 00:48:19.920 --> 00:48:24.239 It's called the bills that are going to make it somewhere that the bills that 632 00:48:24.320 --> 00:48:29.800 people ought to be thrilled by are worried about are already a matter of public 633 00:48:29.840 --> 00:48:35.079 record. Is one guy in Seminar County with an iqbe about seventeen who has 634 00:48:35.159 --> 00:48:38.440 decided that there would be a good idea we registered Bloggs. Now to give 635 00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:43.920 you an indication of why I'm not the slightest bit worried about this. There 636 00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:45.880 is another bill at the moment in Florida that is also going nowhere that was 637 00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:51.400 written by one person and that has only one sponsor the author This one by 638 00:48:51.400 --> 00:48:58.400 a Democrat that would ban Floridians from allowing their dogs to stick their heads out 639 00:48:58.440 --> 00:49:06.559 of the windows in cars. Legislative stuff. There's a bill in Texas from 640 00:49:06.559 --> 00:49:08.559 some Republican who's i think, said the more kids you have, the more 641 00:49:08.559 --> 00:49:14.599 money the state will send you. That. I'm sure there are crazy bills 642 00:49:14.599 --> 00:49:17.039 in Iowa. There are always crazy bills in California in the other direction. 643 00:49:17.119 --> 00:49:22.679 They have one or two sponsors. I am happy to condemn this. I 644 00:49:22.679 --> 00:49:29.400 think the statement put out by Fire was absolutely right. It is presumptively unconstitutional, 645 00:49:29.440 --> 00:49:32.039 and this guy in Seminole County should be ashamed of himself. But it's 646 00:49:32.079 --> 00:49:36.079 not a thing, as the kids say. Right, but is it a 647 00:49:36.079 --> 00:49:38.320 good politics? I mean, I'm assuming he doesn't. I'm giving the benefit 648 00:49:38.360 --> 00:49:40.639 of it, but I'm giving him the benefit of a doubt. Like he 649 00:49:40.719 --> 00:49:44.119 doesn't have an IQ of seventy. But he's looking around, he's seeing like, 650 00:49:44.159 --> 00:49:46.199 oh, it's all this Like in my district. I can make a 651 00:49:46.199 --> 00:49:52.519 lot of hay and make him be a crusader against the you know, the 652 00:49:52.519 --> 00:49:58.000 constitutions. Yeah, but I mean, there's something's behind this. I guess 653 00:49:58.039 --> 00:50:00.519 I should take him in face value. He really wants to people to start. 654 00:50:00.639 --> 00:50:04.320 He wants to register First Amendment register for First Amendment rights. But it 655 00:50:04.320 --> 00:50:08.519 seems to me that, um, there's a political calculation here. Was sort 656 00:50:08.559 --> 00:50:13.079 of interesting. Maybe it's dumb, but it seems to me that if anything, 657 00:50:13.119 --> 00:50:17.639 it's gross syco fancy towards the governor. Yes, yeah, probably unprompted 658 00:50:17.679 --> 00:50:23.199 and unwanted sycophancy, but sycophancy. Nevertheless, nonetheless, Rob would be familiar 659 00:50:23.199 --> 00:50:27.559 with that. He gets it all the time. It's on the subway, 660 00:50:27.639 --> 00:50:30.679 which is why he's in favor of smartphones exactly, bearing yourself his smart phone. 661 00:50:30.760 --> 00:50:34.079 All right, Uh, and I didn't we want to wrap it before 662 00:50:34.079 --> 00:50:37.559 we do? Um you wrote, Charlie, you wrote, UM pretty blistering 663 00:50:37.599 --> 00:50:47.000 piece about Biden's uh magic wand his his gift gift to the to the to 664 00:50:47.119 --> 00:50:51.400 his to his subjects. Um, it's almost like one of those like on 665 00:50:51.480 --> 00:50:54.599 the feast of the Goddess of you know fire, I eliminate your debt. 666 00:50:55.280 --> 00:51:05.039 Um, how much trouble are we in if this thing isn't struck down by 667 00:51:05.079 --> 00:51:08.840 the Supreme Court? And then how much trouble are we in politically? If 668 00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:14.760 it is, I don't think we're in any trouble. If it is, 669 00:51:15.880 --> 00:51:21.079 I'm afraid. I'm not sunny on this question. I think that this is 670 00:51:21.079 --> 00:51:25.079 a constitutional crisis, and I use the term consciously and advisedly. I think 671 00:51:25.079 --> 00:51:32.159 this is a constitutional crisis of Joe Biden's making. And I think that if 672 00:51:32.559 --> 00:51:39.159 this is upheld on standing grounds, which is the only way it can be 673 00:51:39.239 --> 00:51:45.280 upheld, the on the merits argument is preposterous, right and has no chance 674 00:51:45.320 --> 00:51:51.119 in any court. The standing ground is essentially that the people who who have 675 00:51:51.280 --> 00:51:53.440 challenged US law in court have no standing to do so. They didn't, 676 00:51:53.480 --> 00:52:00.440 they are not party to it, they have no harm right, And yes, 677 00:52:00.559 --> 00:52:02.559 that is the that is the way of looking at it, although I 678 00:52:02.559 --> 00:52:07.159 would point out that that it's a threshold issue. I mean, clearly the 679 00:52:07.280 --> 00:52:14.320 people in question have been harmed, but the court often narrows its standing window 680 00:52:14.400 --> 00:52:19.920 because otherwise it would be overrun by cases. What if you say it's you 681 00:52:19.920 --> 00:52:24.159 know, you know anything, Anything under four hundred billion dollars is dot harmed? 682 00:52:24.840 --> 00:52:30.239 Anything over half a trillion. We're talking about half a trillion dollars, 683 00:52:30.320 --> 00:52:34.840 right, Look, the reason I think this is a is a potential disaster 684 00:52:35.400 --> 00:52:42.519 is that if this ends up being upheld on standing grounds, the Supreme Court 685 00:52:43.119 --> 00:52:50.960 will have ratified a massive whole in the Constitution, and we'll have signaled that, 686 00:52:51.119 --> 00:52:59.199 under its standing jurisprudence, if the executive branch can find a law somewhere 687 00:53:00.239 --> 00:53:07.039 that has some vague reference to any topic, and if the executive branch can 688 00:53:07.119 --> 00:53:15.199 find a way of using that law to do something that is ostensibly benevolent, 689 00:53:16.679 --> 00:53:23.880 then there is no judicial role to play in superintending separation of powers. And 690 00:53:24.400 --> 00:53:30.800 I don't see a limiting principle there. I assume that this will become the 691 00:53:30.880 --> 00:53:34.400 norm, because every time in the last thirty forty, maybe even eighty years, 692 00:53:34.440 --> 00:53:40.880 the executive branch has discovered a new way of aggrandizing itself within our constitution 693 00:53:40.960 --> 00:53:45.800 lorder, it has taken it, and it has pocketed it. And the 694 00:53:45.880 --> 00:53:52.440 example I always give is of a rogue republican administration that decides for a year 695 00:53:52.440 --> 00:54:01.119 not to collect taxes. If the argument here is it seems to be that 696 00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:09.760 the harms that are caused by a given action have to be direct and discrete 697 00:54:09.800 --> 00:54:17.960 and identifiable. If the argument is that no one is really harmed by the 698 00:54:19.039 --> 00:54:25.039 federal government giving away four hundred billion dollars from the treasury, and that taxpayers 699 00:54:25.760 --> 00:54:30.519 don't count because their claim is to attenuate it. Then it's actually hard to 700 00:54:30.559 --> 00:54:35.239 see who would be harmed if the federal government, for example, so were 701 00:54:35.239 --> 00:54:38.480 were just not collecting any income taxes, even if Congress is told to right. 702 00:54:39.199 --> 00:54:43.840 And you know, I know that after a certain point, Congress would 703 00:54:43.880 --> 00:54:52.400 probably wake up and start changing the law or issuing a writ of mandamus, 704 00:54:52.480 --> 00:54:58.119 or impeaching the president if it got too far. But the risk here is 705 00:54:58.159 --> 00:55:06.599 that these these actions are limited only to behaviors from the government that are generally 706 00:55:06.639 --> 00:55:10.840 perceived to be friendly. And the reason I go down that rabbit hole is 707 00:55:10.880 --> 00:55:15.119 that if you go back to the founding, what the founders are mostly worried 708 00:55:15.159 --> 00:55:22.719 about is tyranny that would be recognizable by anyone. They're worried that the government 709 00:55:22.719 --> 00:55:28.719 will smash up the printing presses. They're worried that the government will take away 710 00:55:28.760 --> 00:55:32.199 the guns or imprison people without due process. They're worried about the rise of 711 00:55:32.239 --> 00:55:38.880 a Julius Caesar. What they had not countenanced, or at least not provided 712 00:55:38.920 --> 00:55:45.000 for. If this standing doctrine holds is the president who behaves like Oprah and 713 00:55:45.079 --> 00:55:49.480 says, everyone under your seats, there is here is a car for you, 714 00:55:49.719 --> 00:55:52.280 and then turns around and says, well, who's harmed by that? 715 00:55:52.800 --> 00:55:54.159 Oh no, it doesn't count. By the way, that the people who 716 00:55:54.599 --> 00:55:58.800 are on the hook, that doesn't count. I'm very worried about it. 717 00:56:00.599 --> 00:56:02.639 Rob. As usual, it falls to you to find a cheery note on 718 00:56:02.679 --> 00:56:06.800 which to close up the show. Yeah I can't accept that. Yeah, 719 00:56:06.840 --> 00:56:08.480 I can't. I can't. Charlie. By the way, in my own 720 00:56:08.599 --> 00:56:14.280 humble reading of this, Charlie is completely right. Court has backed itself into 721 00:56:14.280 --> 00:56:20.039 a position in which the standing, the jurisprudence of standing, has now become 722 00:56:20.079 --> 00:56:24.800 an absurdity. You get to do anything unconstitutional you want, mister President, 723 00:56:25.280 --> 00:56:31.440 as long as nobody has standing to sue you. And incidentally, taxpayers, 724 00:56:31.719 --> 00:56:38.440 ordinary Americans, ordinary American citizens don't. Right, It's an absurdity which it 725 00:56:38.559 --> 00:56:43.639 seems has to occur to at least Clarence Thomas. But he's only one of 726 00:56:43.719 --> 00:56:49.000 nine Clarence Thomas, and I can get it up to two. But they 727 00:56:49.039 --> 00:56:52.119 could seem, um, just from my reading of the transcript, they did 728 00:56:52.199 --> 00:56:58.559 seem skeptical, did they not? Yeah, But what they should have said 729 00:56:58.639 --> 00:57:00.360 was get the hell out of here, are you kidding? They should have 730 00:57:00.360 --> 00:57:04.559 said good. I'm not saying, by the way, that this isn't going 731 00:57:04.599 --> 00:57:07.880 to come down in the right way. I'm just saying that the way that 732 00:57:07.920 --> 00:57:13.159 this is covered, as so often is limited to whether or not canceling student 733 00:57:13.239 --> 00:57:15.400 loans, by which they mean transferring student loans to the people who didn't borrow 734 00:57:15.400 --> 00:57:19.800 and spend the money. Correct. It is a good idea, and I'm 735 00:57:19.840 --> 00:57:23.039 saying that I think that this is an inflection point in American constitutional law. 736 00:57:23.440 --> 00:57:28.559 That's why I'm so worried about it, right, I mean, if you're 737 00:57:28.679 --> 00:57:30.639 the counter art enough to counter argue. But one of the things people say 738 00:57:30.719 --> 00:57:34.079 is, well, listen, we bailed out all the banks in two thousand 739 00:57:34.079 --> 00:57:37.679 and eight. Well, Congress did, right, so Congress can do this. 740 00:57:37.800 --> 00:57:39.920 Rob. I would be livid because I opposed the policy, but it 741 00:57:39.920 --> 00:57:47.400 would be absolutely legal. If Congress decided to pass a bill then instructed the 742 00:57:47.440 --> 00:57:52.760 executive branch to remove ten thousand dollars from every student loan holders balance, that's 743 00:57:53.119 --> 00:57:57.440 legal. Congress has that power. It issued the loans in the first place. 744 00:57:57.480 --> 00:58:00.239 I think taxpayers should be angry and vote them out. They do that, 745 00:58:00.400 --> 00:58:07.960 but that's not the question here. The bailouts that the cavaliers don't like 746 00:58:07.519 --> 00:58:15.960 were congressionally passed. The tax subsidies to business or rich people or the middle 747 00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:20.719 class that the cavaliers don't like passed through Congress. And if this is going 748 00:58:20.760 --> 00:58:23.800 to be done, it has to be as well. Trying desperately to find 749 00:58:23.840 --> 00:58:28.360 something cheer cheerful. But I don't know. Can we go back at it? 750 00:58:28.559 --> 00:58:30.519 Maybe you can change your mind, Charlie about Laurie Lightfoot's was good? 751 00:58:30.639 --> 00:58:35.519 Right, we can end on a good you know it was maybe it was 752 00:58:35.559 --> 00:58:37.320 good. We were all thrilled to see the end of that, at least 753 00:58:37.320 --> 00:58:42.639 one at least one of the little tiny caesars. Fell Um, this is 754 00:58:42.639 --> 00:58:46.639 the moment when Cliff pipes up and says something so completely some total non sequitory. 755 00:58:46.760 --> 00:58:52.199 Yeah, but it's is real life. Um, So before we go, 756 00:58:52.480 --> 00:59:00.400 um, do we do we have anything? I mean, I'm breaking 757 00:59:00.400 --> 00:59:05.760 a rule here and talking about twenty twenty four. It's so early, but 758 00:59:05.840 --> 00:59:08.639 we are seeing the only way out of this conversation, baby, right exactly, 759 00:59:08.760 --> 00:59:13.639 But we are seeing, um, you know, the beginnings of of 760 00:59:14.079 --> 00:59:16.639 you know, stirrings of a campaign. Mike Pompeo's out, Nicky Haley's out, 761 00:59:17.960 --> 00:59:22.320 The governor Florida is not in Florida. It am I wrong to be 762 00:59:22.360 --> 00:59:24.719 optimistic about this? It seems like it's going to be sort of an interesting 763 00:59:24.840 --> 00:59:30.199 um but an interesting race on the Republican side, with some compelling candidates who 764 00:59:30.239 --> 00:59:34.679 have messages and things to say, one of whom we've heard from many, 765 00:59:34.679 --> 00:59:36.679 many, many, many, many, many many times, and I think 766 00:59:36.679 --> 00:59:38.239 we might be board of the others are new and fresh, and it seem 767 00:59:38.360 --> 00:59:45.119 interesting. M seemed like, yeah, Democrats seem like they've made their peace 768 00:59:45.159 --> 00:59:52.559 with Joe Biden as as the as the presumptive nominee um one of my missing 769 00:59:52.039 --> 00:59:55.480 Well, we do have to get through the books. We just have to 770 00:59:55.519 --> 01:00:00.079 somehow or others transcend the books. Pompeo's book is out. It's entitled Never 771 01:00:00.119 --> 01:00:02.920 Given Inch. Pompeo is tough, he's smart, he's a remarkable man. 772 01:00:04.239 --> 01:00:09.280 But the only blurb on the back cover of the book is by Mike Pompeo. 773 01:00:09.599 --> 01:00:14.000 And here's the blurb. Here's the blurb. My new book reads like 774 01:00:14.039 --> 01:00:19.760 a thriller with stories from my heart. Huh, oh, no, that's 775 01:00:19.840 --> 01:00:23.519 im. He's not even he blurbed his own book. It was a blurb 776 01:00:23.559 --> 01:00:28.559 written by a chatbot or an editor. There's no difference between the two. 777 01:00:29.039 --> 01:00:32.000 That's an impeachable offense. And the man has elected a thriller. But the 778 01:00:32.280 --> 01:00:35.880 stories from my Heart that doesn't seem he seems like Nick's metaphors. That. 779 01:00:36.039 --> 01:00:37.880 Yeah, it's a romance with stories from my heart. So a thriller with 780 01:00:37.920 --> 01:00:42.800 stories from my past. Um, all right, poor guy. All right, 781 01:00:42.880 --> 01:00:45.519 So for the first weird, weird mistake of the twenty twenty four, 782 01:00:46.039 --> 01:00:50.599 these guys, there's work to be done here. These guys needn't tune up. 783 01:00:51.920 --> 01:00:55.840 In my humble opinion, Charlie, I think it's going to be really 784 01:00:55.880 --> 01:00:59.679 interesting primary as long as there aren't too many people. If you get to 785 01:00:59.719 --> 01:01:02.599 twelve thirteen people, you have the same structural problems you had last time, 786 01:01:02.599 --> 01:01:06.719 and it will be impossible to hear anyone speak from mold and ten seconds. 787 01:01:07.039 --> 01:01:09.079 If it sticks at six or seven, I think it'll be great. Yeah, 788 01:01:09.119 --> 01:01:12.679 it seems like it could be really interesting. M all right, So 789 01:01:12.760 --> 01:01:15.679 that's that? Is that positive enough for you? Peter? Yeah, yeah, 790 01:01:15.760 --> 01:01:19.119 that'll do. That'll do, although it's not very funny. Well, 791 01:01:20.239 --> 01:01:22.400 stay tuned. I think I think he's blurbs pretty funny by the way. 792 01:01:23.480 --> 01:01:27.159 Oh actually there, I give that to you for free. There's your next 793 01:01:27.159 --> 01:01:35.159 column for n R exactly. Yeah, self riveting read a riveting read it. 794 01:01:35.480 --> 01:01:38.039 You'll laugh, you'll cry, you won't put it down. Dick Charles 795 01:01:38.079 --> 01:01:44.360 Dickens blurbing Nicholas Nickleby or something. Right, it was out of my seat 796 01:01:44.360 --> 01:01:49.360 and applauding, you know, William Shakespeare on Julia's season. Um, all 797 01:01:49.440 --> 01:01:52.159 right, that's enough of a laugh. Um we should Before we go, 798 01:01:52.199 --> 01:01:54.000 we have to say that this podcast is brought you by Balling Branch Sheets. 799 01:01:54.000 --> 01:01:57.400 You know, ball and Branch has been a long time supporter of ours, 800 01:01:57.480 --> 01:02:00.199 and you switch a new support of ours. We hope you check out you 801 01:02:00.239 --> 01:02:02.079 switch, so please support them for supporting us. And they really do support 802 01:02:02.119 --> 01:02:05.920 us. So if you like it, if you like us, you should 803 01:02:05.960 --> 01:02:08.760 be liking them. And you know, if you like us and you should 804 01:02:08.800 --> 01:02:13.159 liking them, you should join us. At ricochet dot com. Lots happening 805 01:02:13.199 --> 01:02:15.639 at Ricochet. Meetups are happening. They're fun. We have a bunch of 806 01:02:15.639 --> 01:02:19.360 coming up. There's a chance to meet the actual King of Stuff, John 807 01:02:19.360 --> 01:02:22.639 Gabriel. He'll be in Phoenix on March eleventh, which is, you know, 808 01:02:22.760 --> 01:02:24.280 kind of right right around the corner. And a bunch of us are 809 01:02:24.280 --> 01:02:28.719 going to be in New Orleans for French Quarterfest in April. Check it out. 810 01:02:29.000 --> 01:02:31.559 I will be there for sure. And Flicker a member. Flicker has 811 01:02:31.559 --> 01:02:35.800 set April twenty second as the date for the Stillwater, Minnesota meet up, 812 01:02:35.800 --> 01:02:39.119 and James Lilacs on the record that he'd be going unless he's in Spain. 813 01:02:39.159 --> 01:02:42.280 I don't think he's going to be in Spain. James in Spain, I 814 01:02:42.280 --> 01:02:45.960 don't think so. And these are far too far away or whatever. The 815 01:02:45.039 --> 01:02:49.960 dates don't work out. There's a solution to join Ricochet and make one happen 816 01:02:50.039 --> 01:02:52.679 closer to you. Just post on the Ricochet member feed, Hey meet up 817 01:02:52.679 --> 01:02:54.719 where I am. We will come to you, I promise you. People 818 01:02:54.719 --> 01:02:59.639 in Ricochet members like to get together, So for details and all of this 819 01:02:59.760 --> 01:03:01.920 go to ricochet dot com slash events. You can find the module in the 820 01:03:01.920 --> 01:03:09.280 sidebar on the website. Also, I'm not, as you can say, 821 01:03:09.280 --> 01:03:14.039 I'm rusty at this. James always reminds you to take a minute and leave 822 01:03:14.079 --> 01:03:16.559 a five star review, and Apple Podcast is a magnificent algorithm, soon, 823 01:03:16.599 --> 01:03:21.480 according to James Polos, to take over all of our lives. But in 824 01:03:21.559 --> 01:03:24.039 the meantime, give us a five star review, and that moves us up 825 01:03:24.079 --> 01:03:28.000 and allows new listeners to discover, and that helps keep the show going and 826 01:03:28.159 --> 01:03:31.719 helps keep Ricochet front and center. So thanks for joining us, guys, 827 01:03:31.719 --> 01:03:36.760 and we'll see everyone else in the comments and see you guys next week. 828 01:03:37.039 --> 01:03:46.440 Next week, boys Ricochet join the Conversation