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availability and eligibility may vary. Ryan Callahan is making his way south with head
coaching in person interviews with three teams. Let's talk about that and why the
Bengals might be able to keep Dann Pitcher. You are Locked On Bengals,
your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast, part of the Locked On podcast Network team every
day one of Bengals fans and welcome to another episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast.
I'm your host, Jake. Let's go. He's your host, James
Arpine. We're part of the Lockdown Podcast Network. Here on Lockdown Bengals we'll
be covering your team every day through this off season, and right now,
that means we're getting through the coaching carousel and the NFL and the Bengals have
coaches heavily involved, as we've discussed as recently as late last week. And
we're going to continue today with some news about Brian Callahan's upcoming interviews. Today's
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at FanDuel dot com. Slash Lockdown and James. We have reporting on the
timing of Brian Callahan's three in person interviews as of Monday, going to Tennessee,
going to Carolina, going to Atlanta for a string of a very busy
three day in person interviews stretch for him, feels like he's as good as
gone. My friend, I think Brian Callahan is going to get a head
coaching job, and it makes sense in a lot of ways. We've said
it multiple times. It's a matter of when, not if. When it
comes to the Bengals offensive coordinator. It is interesting and these three jobs are
interesting because none of them are awesome jobs at the moment, I don't know
how you feel about them. I think there are a lot of people that
are going to look at that Carolina job and say there's no way he should
go there. I also think given Brian's experience here in Cincinnati, and there
are some differences, I'm not saying that it's the same, but he's seen
it go from one win and wondering where that first win is going to come
in twenty nineteen to where it's gotten to where we're expecting AFC Championship runs and
Super Bowls every year. And so even a job like Carolina, because I've
seen a lot of comments on this, whether it's on our YouTube page or
on social media, I think Brian will see some good in that, and
it wouldn't shock me if that's of the three the job that he's most likely
to take, because I think it's the one that's most likely to offer it
to him. Yeah, I think we've seen some reporting kind of hinting that
perhaps he is the favorite for the Carolina Panthers, but I think he's in
consideration for all three jobs. You don't bring in Brian Callaghan for in person
interviews if you're not at least considering it. Atlanta certainly talking to some very
high profile coaches as well, so that one feels very competitive, just with
the Belichick report out there and that interview that occurred. But I do think
the Carolina is the hardest of these jobs, and think about any of the
jobs. You don't just turned down a head coaching job unless it's wildly toxic,
and you could argue that Carolina is that, with their owner being in
the news a little bit more than you probably want to see an owner in
the news lately, and the way their season went, the lack of a
first round asset this year, you're inheriting a QB. There are reasons that
you would be worried historically about seeing a head coach go into that sort of
situation for his first head coaching job. It's a hard place to be when
you can't pick your own quarterback in the foreseeable future, and you don't have
a ton of assets or honestly great players on the team. But it does
feel like he's got a great shot to go somewhere else this year. I
think the Tennessee job in the Atlanta job are both okay. I think their
worst jobs in the NFL. The NFC South seems to be going through coaches
at a pretty high rate outside of New Orleans, and I guess Tampa to
some degree in recent years. So both of those jobs, you know,
a little bit tenuous. But at least in Atlanta, maybe you can get
a new quarterback in and there's some pieces around down there. And in Tennessee,
I don't know. I don't know how I feel about that one.
That feels like a pretty average job. But if Brian is a good coach,
he could elevate any of these teams. And I think, you know,
we've seen over time that he's been involved with the turnaround in Cincinnati.
We've heard Zach Taylor talk about his role in building the culture in Cincinnati,
and like you mentioned, he's been through that ascent from bringing in the quarterbacks
and getting to the top to getting to the super Bowl. And so that's
got to be one of the reasons that he's very attractive to these teams.
Yeah, for sure, let's rank. Let's rank them. Thousand foot view.
Obviously we're not done on the interviews and don't have all the details.
We don't know what the Falcons plan for quarterback is I love Desmond Ritter.
I also don't think that that's the plan or should be the plan. They
have the eighth pick. I think that's the best of the three jobs.
Yep. Is that Falcons job, and part of it is the division and
no doubt, and if they get the right quarterback, I think they would
have won the division this year if they had the right quarterback. Put it
that way, and Baker Mayfield won that division with a solid Tampa team.
But they don't scare you. They certainly don't scare you, and so that's
where I would start. I think the Tennessee job is behind that. But
Mike Rabel had them in the AFC title game a few years ago with Ryan
Tannehill. Like, if you're Brian and you think you're a good coach,
and I know he thinks he's a good coach, why would you think that
you couldn't turn it around in a weird AFC South That is also you know,
you've got some ascending teams. It feels like some good young quarterbacks there,
But I don't think it's it's certainly not the AFC North, but it
that way. And then the Panthers job I agree. It's weird because you're
kind of stuck with Bryce. Like in Tennessee, you're not stuck with Will
Levis. It's a draft pick. They invested, and I'm fine if it
doesn't work out this year, you can go get your next quarterback Carolina.
You're probably married to him for the next two years unless things go really really
wrong this next year. So you're making that job. It's similar sort of
to him interviewing in Arizona last year versus interviewing in Indy, And those are
the two interviews he took and got close to getting the Indie job. One
you're drafting a quarterback potentially and the Colts ended up doing that. The other
you have your quarterback in Kyler Murray. Similar to a degree with this Carolina
job, you have your quarterback, but he's almost like a smaller, less
athletic Kyler Murray. And let's established Kyler had done something in the NFL at
that point for sure. Yeah, so's it's tough. I do think that
he'll take any of the three that comes down to it. I don't know
that, but I would be surprised if he turned down a head coaching job.
Yeah, I think that a lot of times, when these guys are
in position to get their first head coaching job, it's very hard to turn
it down. They are confident in themselves, they're aware. I'm sure Brian
is aware of what's going on in Carolina, right, But it's just an
opportunity where if you're confident in your abilities and you're going to be confident in
your abilities if you're interviewing for head coaching jobs, believe that that would be
a job he would take. It's just losing that pick, not having a
first round pick, it's just I think, really tough with the care and
maybe I'm overrating it, but it's because it's the first overall pick that they
lost in Tennessee. In Atlanta, picking seven and eight back to back,
you have a really nice asset there to build your team around. If you
want to get a quarterback, no doubt, and or a stud receiver for
your own quarterback, if you like will or franchise tackle. Plenty of options
to your point. In Carolina, they don't have that. Let me ask
you this. Let's say Brian Callahan takes the Bengals, or it goes from
Bengals offensive coordinator to Carolina Panthers head coach. Does that make it more likely
that a franchise tag T Higgins ends up in Carolina? I think it does.
I think it makes it a little more likely, maybe a bit.
I don't know. We can cross that bridge when we come to it.
That just feels so far away. And it's so hard to project Bengals.
We got T Higgins here, we need thirty three and a fourth rounder.
It's so hard to project project the Bengals trading T Higgins on the franchise tag
thirty five. Okay, we'll take it. Let's go. Like, I
get your point, but you also like, do you not agree? It's
really hard to project that trade is something in reality? Oh for sure.
Yeah, that's all I'm saying. And there's just no way I would let
him play out this year on the tag though, And I think they're better
with T. I just can't get nothing. And the thirty third pick in
this year's draft, it's pretty pretty good, especially where there's like you're seeing
some some early reporting about the depth of the draft on Day three, some
some discussion around that. How did you see that this week where like I
did, Yeah, I did. Depletion of of the draft class, because
of COVID years, because of this, because of nil, because of this,
because of that, like the late part of the draft, you're talking
earlier undrafted free agent kind of getting picked. So there's some reasons the Bengals
might not be in dire straits of Brian Callyhangos. There's some reasons that Dan
Pittrick could stay even though he's also in high demand. We'll touch on that
topic and get to some playoff takeaways and some potential Joe Burrow a rasure by
some other members of the media coming up next. Today's episode is sponsored by
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perfect, it has to be Schultz Strollers. James. If Brian Callahan takes
a job to be a head coach somewhere, there's been some concern, including
on this podcast, about if the Bengals were to lose Daan Pitcher to an
OC job as well, But there are some reasons that he could choose to
say in Cincinnati, if he has an OC promotion on the table, especially
and I think there's been some concern that, you know, maybe he would
follow Brian Callahan. Maybe he would go somewhere where he's off for play calling
duties and he would take a bigger promotion quote unquote, bigger promotion including play
calling, perhaps to go elsewhere. What are your thoughts on Dan Pitcher's future
if Brian Callahan does depart. I think Brian Callahan is the next Bengals offensive
coordinator and there's a couple of the Brian Callahan I think he meant dam Pitcher,
Oh, damn Pitcher. Bam, Wow, how about that? See
I just did on the podcast what social media teams across the country have been
doing. Maybe I meant to do that on purpose, getting the two confused.
Dan Pitcher's the next Bengals offensive coordinator, and I would be surprised if
he wasn't. I messaged you that before we started the show. There's a
couple of things here, and we know about his Saints interview. You could
look around the league. There's the Patriots. There's the idea of following Callahan
to the Titans or Panthers or Falcons. First things first, why would he
not follow Callahan? What can Callahan offer that Zach Taylor cant because call me
crazy, but after five years of being an offensive coordinator not calling your own
plays, I will be floored, shocked, stunned if Brian Callahan does not
call his own plays wherever he is, I would be I would be stunned.
And it's because he's an offensive mind and I'm sure he wants that shot,
and he wants to show what he can do, and he's learned and
feels like he's ready. So I would be stunned if he didn't go that
route. So there you go. If you're Dan pitcher and you're not calling
your plays here in Cincinnati, well why would you go to Tennessee or Carolina
or Atlanta? You wouldn't. He's not following Brian Callahan. And this is
an inside info. It's just looking at the tea leaves and reading them.
As far as that's concerned, I think there we go. We close the
door on Brian Callahan following or Dan pitcher Man. That's twice. Dan Pitcher
following Brian Callahan. These other jobs, they could offer the play calling element.
And that's what's interesting now about the Bengals because Zach Taylor hasn't really entertained
the idea of not calling plays. Would he do that to keep Dan Pitcher?
Does he need to do that to keep Dan Pitcher? I think that's
the real question to ask, because I'm not sure he does. New England
is a question mark. The Eagles have an opening that's a question mark.
The Bears field theirs today, I don't know. I mean, you got
Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase, and if Dan Pitcher does his job in Cincinnati,
he will get interviewed for head coaching jobs next year. I don't know
if we'll get one, but he'll get interviews. I don't know if it's
worth moving your family and going through all of that when you could just get
the elevation here, roll with Joe Burrow and try to win a Super Bowl.
I think the most telling thing about that that idea that you can say
here and get a head coaching interview next year if you do a good job
as OC is look at all of the McVeigh, Shanahan, Taylor, coaches
that are in demand, and Zach Taylor doesn't have a huge coaching tree at
this point because people have stayed in Cincinnati for the last few years. Has
documented Brian Callahan one of, if not the longest tenured offensive coordinator in the
NFL at the same team, longest tenured offensive coordinator in the league. YEP,
So a bit of a surprise there that those physicians just move. There's
a lot of turnover because those guys, when they're good go to other teams.
When they're bad, they get replaced. And the point is is you
look at some of the interview patterns the Bears reportedly hiring Shane Waldron or moving
toward hiring Shane Waldron. These guys coming from the McVeigh, Taylor tree,
Shanahan tree are in high demand around the NFL. And you'll probably see that
with Mike McDaniel in the next couple of years as well. We've seen it
with Andy Reid over the last few years. But if that continues, then
Dan Pitcher would be another one of those guys, and if he does a
good job and he can separate himself from the other number of coaches in the
NFL that have similar experience, and if Taylor doesn't want to lose both guys,
being Callahan and Dan Pitcher, he does have some things that Bengals can
offer. One it could be just as simple as money. Do the Bengals
need to pay more to keep Pitcher than other teams would offer in similar roles
too? I wonder, as there's been some speculation, including Joe Gudberry on
Bengals on the Brain, I wonder if Zach would consider head coach or play
calling duties and I wonder if that's on the table to try to keep Dan
Pitcher if they don't want to go through that much upheaval in one year.
Yeah, do they need to to your question, I don't know, But
is it on the table? I wonder. I mean, I think that
could be reasonable. You can see that being possible. Sure you could,
because I think we talked about this last week and those that listened to or
watched our show, losing both is not good and I don't think Zach wants
to do that. And I think that that's You could say what you want
about Brian or the offense or Dan or what which I don't know why you'd
say really anything bad about Dan because both quarterbacks look prepared all year, right,
that's the job of the quarterbacks coach. I think that they're as valued
as anyone. I think Zach puts a lot on Brian. I think Zach
relies on Dan a lot. I think Joe trust both of those guys,
and that matters a lot. So to have both guys just go in one
offseason, that would suck. For lack of a better word, and I
know that's not the professional word. Whatever, I'm telling you, that's exactly
how Zach's thinking. So what do they do? I agree, I think
there's there's a chance they could go that route. I do wonder if they
need to. It's a good oc job. And you say, Dan,
we value you and they should pay him, of course. But the play
calling duties, I because that opens up a whole nother can of worms.
I'm sure there's a lot of people listening like, yeah, Dan Pitcher play
calling, Okay, Zach Taylor's done it for five years. I'm sure you
have beef with some of his play calls. Get it? I do too.
Guess what, Dan Pitcher's not done it all right during this stretch with
the Bengals. So there's there's some growth there. And that's always been my
argument when people say, oh, Brian should be calling plays. I like
Brian a lot. There would be a period there where he's getting his feet
under it. And Zach has gone through that, and he's done it for
five years now, and he knows Burrow and he knows what he likes and
doesn't like and all of those things. So I'm not jumping at the idea
if I'm zack of going to Dan and letting him call plays. But I
do think that I guess there could be a scenario where that's the case.
I just wonder if it's if it's needed to keep him. I don't think
it is, but maybe it is. It'll be interesting. We should find
out. We should get our answers this week, potentially this week next week
at the latest Brian Callahan with those three in person interviews starting Monday through Wednesday,
back to back to back days. Teams are gonna want to get this
stuff resolved sooner than later. That's the case every year Senior Bowl. Right
around the corner, you want your coaches to be in place for that,
especially in Cincinnati, also true for other teams around the league. To finish
up the show, James, you've got some playoff dakeaways to talk about with
the divisional round behind us in some conversation in national media that maybe some Joe
burrow eraser. We'll finish the show there coming up next. Today's show is
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by state. Let's start this final segment of the show James today with some
playoff takeaways. There are four games in the Bucks. We know the championship
game contenders. There are a couple of different directions we could go here.
I have some ideas. We talked about Bill's Chiefs before we started recording,
James. I'll let you take us where we're going to start. Well,
game takeaways. Yeah, let's start with explosive plays, man oh man,
are they the difference and can they be the difference? And you look at
Chiefs Bills. The Bills they don't hit on the deep ball to Stefon Diggs.
That certainly impacted the game, but no explosives throughout the game. Meanwhile,
the Chiefs average over seven yards per play, multiple explosives. They have
Travis Kelce running free, or she Rice with some big plays. Isaiah Pacheco
had some big plays, had Clyde Edwards a layer had a big run up
the sideline. That's a major factor. And I think this Bengals offense this
offseason, whether it's Brian Callahan, Dan Pitcher or Jake Lisco calling the plays,
you need to find a way to get more explosive plays. And in
part of that's personnel, part of that's execution certainly, and part of that's
finding the right plays at the right time. Four verts, I'm calling the
plays four verts. Well that's my style. Baby, oh baby, let's
go ifttle bit. If I were to tell you that the Bills ran thirty
more plays in the Chiefs, yep, they outpossessed the Chiefs by fifteen minutes.
Yep. Out they out rushed the Chiefs by forty yards. The Chiefs
lost the turnover battle, and the Chiefs also couldn't get into the end zone
on two red zone possessions, including one of those being one of those turnovers.
Would you think the Chiefs won that game. How would the Chiefs possibly
win that game when they're outpossessed by fourteen fifteen minutes? Give up? You
know, there's that many more explosive plays. That's how you stay in a
game that goes out. Man, It'll just hide, It'll just hide all
the other the other flaws. And by the way, I think the Chiefs
defense is legit. I think that's part of it. They made it very
hard for the Bills, having all those extra plays, the yards per play
for Bills offense that was moving down the stretch. Yeah, the Chiefs defense
made things hard for sure. Yeah. So there's one one thing, one
major takeaway. The other is, man, oh man, some of our
draft crushes, some of our draft crushes just crushing it. I was just
sitting there like, oh, all these tight ends, and I think everyone
was mentioning tight ends. But just to see Jamir Gibbs just accelerate, accelerate
into the end zone, running past safety's making them look slow. And I
know he was there at twelve, but those that listened to the show,
no, I was really high on him and kin Kate had a few nice
catches. Laporta was someone that, man, we should have been higher on
and pushed harder, I think, but well, obviously was someone that the
Bengals like, but not enough to take it. Twenty eight publican census on
Laporta was flipped pretty consistent throughout. The highest anybody would have him would have
been early second round, not quite as early as he got picked. I
think you know where he got picked was a surprise to many people who know
a lot about the industry. Same for Jamiera Gibbs, the tight Ends winner
earlier too. Yeah, it Gibs winner earlier, but the tight Ends when
you look at him outside of like Darnold Washington, like Tucker Craft went a
little earlier. Luke Musgrave went earlier than people expect like they all got bumped
up almost except after Kinkaid went after Kinkaid because Kinkaid could have gone earlier.
Mayor could have gone earlier, but the NFL didn't like Mayor as much as
some of these athletic guys. It is one of those things where you're going
to look back at the tight end class and think, man, that's a
missed opportunity. Somebody asked us that question on Twitter. I responded to the
question, it is a missed opportunity. I don't think there's any way around
it. It was a great tight end class. I was way on board
for Tucker Craft. I think Tucker Craft having him if he was on the
team right now, if you had the Green Bay musgrave Craft combo, you'd
be great. You'd be feeling great about your tight end future. But if
he had just one of those guys, I think you be feeling pretty good
about it too. But one of the one of the takeaways there for me
is and this is reactionary, Don't get me wrong, this is this is
reacting to one year of NFL football. Yep, let's I'm probably gonna downplay
positional value a little bit this year. Yeah, I get it. I
do. After last year, I was all about it and you weren't alone.
You weren't alone either, believe me. And it's not just last year
either. This might be a one year blip, right, like picking Jamier
Gibbs and Stan Laporta goes wrong for teams more than it goes right for teams.
But it made a big difference for Detroit this year. The Lions took
Gibbs, a linebacker and then a tight end, all in the top thirty
four. I mean, that's it's tough. And I think they could have
waited till eighteen to take Gibbs. I really do. I mean I was
high on them as anybody, but I think they could have waited and they
take Jack Campbell instead. But hey, it's worked out. They're in the
the NFC Championship game, the two quarterbacks, and the NFC Championship Game.
Aren't get all the budds. But I will say all this talk the other
takeaway then it's wild, Like anywhere you turn now from Joe Burrow being compared
to Ben Roethlisberger and everyone's gonna say two rings, that's a fair comp No,
it's not to Brady Manning, and now Lamar is the second best player
in the world. People just forget about Joe. It's just it's wild to
me. He's been dominant in these playoff games. He's won five playoff games
in two years, back to back division championships. Gets hurt and now it's
like he's justin Herbert or something. And I'm not knocking Herbert, like I
think people still respect Joe and think he's a good player. No, he's
had playoff success, like a lot of it, and he's not even mentioned
right now. I mean, Lamar could win out, he could win the
Super Bowl, and he doesn't have as many playoff wins as Joe Burrow does
over the past two years coming into this season. It's just it's a bit
wild to me. I think at least Bengals fans find out like this.
You credit Patrick Mahomes in his postgame comments for sure, Yeah out Joe Burrow,
Like, yeah, when I played Josh Allenen, I played Joe Burrow
and I play Lamar Jackson. I know that's going to come down to the
end. I know the kind of fire those guys have. That's the respect
that Patrick Mahomes will put on those guys and made sure even though he's about
to play the Ravens just played Josh Allen and the Bills not to forget about
Joe And how could you if you're Patrick Mahomes, Because there is a bit
of a nemesis match up there. People talking about Josh Allen and Mahomes being
the best QB rivalry in the NFL. Maybe it is because they both win
and Patrick Mahomes has the one more recent win against Joe Burrow, so maybe
you got to win more to call it a rivalry, but I think you
can call it a rivalry between Patrick Mahomes and Joe Burrow. Yeah, it's
the best rival I don't even think it's I don't even think it's close.
Now, Bill's Chiefs. They're always fun games, they're always entertaining. But
every single game the Bengals and Chiefs have played are one possession. They go
down to the wire. They could have gone either way, and sign me
up for plus all the trash talk around it. I just I think that
that's, to me, the best rivalry. I think that will continue.
There's a reason Jamar Chase said anyone but the Chiefs. I don't feel that
way. Maybe we'll talk about that later in the week at some point.
But uh, that's if you think I'm rooting for the Ravens and another thing
coming Jacobs. Yeah, I'll tell you that much right now. I love
Lamar, but everyone else. Just to wrap up here, I just uh
a couple other playoff thoughts tight ends. You mentioned that. I think tight
ends for each of these playoff teams were among the leaders and receiving yards.
George Schidtle, Travis Kelcey, Sam Laport of making big plays, Isaiah likely
making big plays, cade Oughten making those two hurt, those two hurt.
Dalton Kinkaid the leading receiver for the best tight ends making plays for all these
offenses. We're going to be talking about tight ends a lot. Not a
great offseason to acquire tight ends, but you can do it. If the
Bengals choose to prioritize it, we'll see what direction they want to go there.
And Lamar Jackson is incredibly good at football, like put the team on
his back one hundred rushing yards, two rushing touchdowns to go with the passing
productivity for that team. Certainly can't underestimate Lamar Jackson will be a thorn in
the side of this team. Should be a fun rivalry with Jackson and Burrow,
assuming they get to play each other on a regular basis at any point
when both players are healthy. But that's another one. Just looking around and
strong quarterbacks in the AFC, we kind of thought maybe that that wasn't going
to be the case late in the regular season, the AFC looking very muddled,
and here we are at the end of things, and it's the best
quarterbacks in the AFC and in NFC it's Rock Purty and and goff. Keep
Joe healthy. Yeah, if so, you always have a shot. You
always have a shot. Even if the defense leaves something to be desired,
you always have a shot. Yep, that's going to do it. For
this episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast, it's off season time, more off
season topics and more news coming potentially on the coaching carousel here and we'll have
you covered when it does. Until next time, Thanks for listening, Wode,
and have a go one